dnd-discussion

[olive wind]

I guess anything at this point, but I'm based in EUW so unfortunately american campaigns are kind of inconvenient in terms of timing.

[glass granite]

Y’know what, imma go now. I don’t think I can convince you anyway, do whatever you wish. Best of luck to you Bloodline

[chilly narwhal]

European Union?

[inner silo]

Goodbye!

[olive wind]

yeah sorry, the west of europe.

[glass granite]

Time to play Balatrooo

[remote wadi]

Thanks for the effort. I may just need to take a small break for a few days

[glass granite]

I think so too

[remote wadi]

Or beg my DM for a magical weapon. Wouldn't be my first deal with the devil

[chilly narwhal]

Have fun! If you ever want to talk about something fun, you can come back!

[glass granite]

Oh it’s fine I’ll be back, I also just need to have breakfast lol

[chilly narwhal]

I’m also from Europe lol

Central Europe

[rough basalt]

Man I wanna run some dnd

[valid geyser]

Yeah I think that might be helpful to ask

[glass granite]

Hi also from Europe lol, I’m Nugget
Anyway, duty calls

[rough basalt]

I hate this month when it comes to dnd

[valid geyser]

Seems like a lot of your issues have just been because of magical damage

[inner silo]

I think i also had a similar problem of wanting to play a ranger but complaining about them being weaker then everyone else, especially at higher levels. But that's pretty dm dependant actually and i don't think the difference would be felt that much especially in a casual group, where a ranger might even feel stronger then other classes

[chilly narwhal]

Why is that?

[olive wind]

Oh awesome. Would it be cool to send you a friend request? Keep me in mind if you need players for an online campaign, I consider myself pretty experienced.

[rough basalt]

Cause a lot of people won't play in december

[chilly narwhal]

Of course, I’d love to play if you ever want to play a campaign.

[valid geyser]

My in person college group is switching to digital during winter break

[rough basalt]

It's the perfect month to partake in a lot of dnd players favorite hobby, not playing dnd. /hj

[valid geyser]

I was kinda hoping we could find a meeting place since no one is crazy far (I’d only have to drive like an hour) but I suppose saving gas is good

[remote wadi]

Oddly enough, this feels like a casual group...
But it also doesn't feel like it from the massive power they are putting out

[sleek cloud]

Yesterday was our last session till January, rip

[rough basalt]

Idk when I last played

[chilly narwhal]

If you aren’t enjoying the game, you can try to find a new one?

[rough basalt]

When you go this long without a crumb of dnd time gets lost

[chilly narwhal]

Mine was two days ago

[inner silo]

I think you'd also feel pretty powerful if the enemies we're resistant to your main damaging stuff and especially if you're in your favoured terrain/fight your favoured enemies

[inner silo]

Same for me but today

[remote wadi]

Short answer: no
Long answer: no because there are no other options available and I'm choosing a poor experience over no experience

[rough basalt]

No dnd is better than bad dnd

[chilly narwhal]

Why do you say there are no other options available?

[rough basalt]

They probably live in a small town or something

[ebon dome]

Mhm

[chilly narwhal]

I feel that, I just play online mostly (or with my irl friends, but there are only like 5 of us)

[valid geyser]

I’m a little annoyed at being too strong in my group rn, since this is a club and our table was considered the more “strategic and combat focused” campaign, but the DM I feel isn’t the greatest at making combats/doesn’t want them to drag, so we either get lots of lucky breaks like a CR 7 yuan ti getting instantly removed from combat via a nat 1 saving throw to cause fear, or combats like… one owlbear at level 5

[remote wadi]

Not for me. I'm tired of being in the middle of "Why are you spending all this time making characters? Go out and use them"
And
"It's okay that you haven't found any sessions for several months, you gotta keep searching"

[rough basalt]

Where I live there's only like 10 dnd players and one DM other than me and he doesn't like it when people play characters that aren't the players gender so I won't play with that guy

[valid geyser]

I have a dial wielder rogue built but my first attacks are so strong I haven’t gotten to make my other two attacks a turn

But it is cool to win in ways that aren’t punching

[remote wadi]

Because I've been searching
For months
With constant rejections
And ghosting
And verbal harassment

[umbral girder]

Just make your own group.

[rough basalt]

That's more or less normal I think

[remote wadi]

This too

[chilly narwhal]

That’s so gross and weird. Do you have to change your ooc pronouns every time you play a new character?

[rough basalt]

The rejections and ghosting anyway

[remote wadi]

In person dnd is not available

[rough basalt]

Actually getting a good forever group usually requires you becoming the dm

And making your own group

[remote wadi]

And I don't like dming that much

[umbral girder]

Way more proactive than passive being a DM to get a dnd good group

[remote wadi]

Unfortunately. But I like playing, not making

[chilly narwhal]

I haven’t seen this much struggle for campaigns in my experience?

[remote wadi]

Well, that's your experience. And this is mine

[rough basalt]

It took me 3 years before I found a couple dms I like playing with

[jovial shadow]

I can respect that decision

[chilly narwhal]

Totally. I was just saying that I’m a bit shocked

[rough basalt]

It's actually not that abnormal tbh

Finding a group online is generally a warzone

[soft hare]

Hey chat
What bardic inspiration do y'all have that is equal parts inspirational and equal parts roast?

[remote wadi]

Well, what is a shocker for you is unfortunately life as I've known it for years. It just happened to take the form of Dnd for these past few months

[inner silo]

Finding a paid group is easier but it can get very expensive

I use up most of my allowance right now on dnd

[rough basalt]

Finding a group online you gotta be willing to fight to the death

[remote wadi]

I'm broke. I don't even have my own dice set

[rough basalt]

And that's just any group not even a good one

[inner silo]

Dam

[glad arch]

Curious, is there any way to let a flesh golem be able to talk. Other then just saying it can?

[chilly narwhal]

I’m trying to be nice here, I’ve not meant to upset you/offend you. I’m sorry if I did.

[remote wadi]

Heck, i never even had an allowance. If anything, it was the reverse, needing to spend money I got on birthdays as a kid on gas money

[inner silo]

Say it has a decently formed mouth and can

[rough basalt]

Finding a good group for dnd online as a player is like finding the Holy Grail

[inner silo]

That's sad

[chilly narwhal]

The best campaigns I’ve found are through random forums and in games

[umbral girder]

Yeah near impossible as a Player.

[remote wadi]

Once again, that's just life as I know it

[rough basalt]

Except it's not Monty Python and funny.
It's like an Indiana Jones movie, except you're the extra whose dying to traps or curses

[chilly narwhal]

Never forget the wolf quest originated campaign

[remote wadi]

Don't worry about it too much. Just saying that I unfortunately don't have any of the luxuries some take for granted

[minor cargo]

At the risk of accidentally making a "we live in a society" statement, almost every DM I know would love to run even more games - but they too are strapped for time/energy. It can be tough to do social things when a lot of life seems to want you to commit that time and energy to things like "work".

[rough basalt]

Yeah that's another thing.
There's just not enough dms

[lapis sonnet]

say i have 2 level 2 spell slots, and 4 level 1 spell slots, can i have all my prepared slots be of level 2spells? im kinda stuck on this

[chilly narwhal]

I think everyone has their struggles

[rough basalt]

And not every DM is a good DM (not in a skill way, but who they are kinda way)

[hollow estuary]

Any Cantrips in DND that apply a condition are insane and broken.

Example:

Frightful start.
Wis Save, Fail = Frightened till ur next turn, where you can do it again

[remote wadi]

No. What that means is you can pick 4 level 1 spells and 2 level 2 slots to prepare. You can, however, upcast a level 1 spell to make it stronger at the cost of your level 2 spell slot

[rough basalt]

Like you might find what seems to be a perfect group then the DM starts using an NPC to hit on a girl player and ignore the rest of you

[inner silo]

What's frightful start? What edition is it from?

[elder fulcrum]

Yo dudes, a dnd campaign ended and I need to write a new character sheet, any ideas. I’m tired of playing a dumb orc with barely enough intelligence to form and understand simple words

[hollow estuary]

Grim Hollow players guide, 5e

[remote wadi]

That assumes we all suffer equally

[chilly narwhal]

I’m a dm (I’m not very skilled in the arts of dming)

[valid geyser]

You don’t prepare a spell to a slot. You prepare spells that you can cast through any slots of a fitting level, and you can upcast lower level spells into a higher level slot

[chilly narwhal]

I don’t think it does. Some people struggle more than others, and some people who seem like they don’t struggle have many.

[inner silo]

I see. In 24 phb at least you mainly sacrificer range and damage to do a debuff

[rough basalt]

I'd take a DM whose not good at DMing over a good DM whose a bad person imo

[remote wadi]

Well, what do you want me to do about it? Aside from what I already can and am trying to do, which is close to nothing

[umbral girder]

Being a DM is actually easier than expected. The new DMG makes things so much easier

[elder fulcrum]

Fr

[inner silo]

Well being a dm costs money, to start

[chilly narwhal]

I’m trying to comfort you, but I don’t really know how to respond to this. I apologize

[rough basalt]

Not necessarily

[lapis sonnet]

does that mean i have to have level 1 spells if i have slots for them?

[rough basalt]

The basic rules has enough of the DM rules and Monsters to get started, and even run some small campaigns at least

[remote wadi]

Well, I applaud and appreciate your efforts. But if your goal is to solve my problems (let alone to lessen them), it is a very tall order

[harsh hinge]

I've been running for four years and the only money I've spent on D&D has been some third-party book and one set of dice. That's it.

[hollow estuary]

Cool spell.

Thaumaturgy.

• Allows you to shout really loud, Advantage on intimidation checks, great rp potential.
• Other seriously cinematic things.

6/10 + Giant barbarians get it and most DMs will forget that you cant cast it while raging.

[inner silo]

Yeah, you will need to likely purchase dmg, mm and phb at least eventually

[chilly narwhal]

I’ve been wanting to make a curse of strahd campaign that is more forgiving/cozy

[rough basalt]

Well, admittedly i don't think it'll be easy to make a group around that, go for it

[inner silo]

At least from what I've been told before

[rough basalt]

Since a lot of people seek out CoS cause it is a dark horror module.

[inner silo]

That may not be much but that's still more then a player needs to

[loud tendon]

You could only prepare slots of a higher level but then your level 1 slots would essentially be wasted since you can't "downcast" spells to a lower level.

[chilly narwhal]

Yeah, I just want to make a vampire campaign that is more friendly, but still horror

It’s a hard thing lol 💜

[rough basalt]

I'd avoid CoS, but definitely take a lot of inspiration from it

[umbral girder]

Not with the basic rules being free

[chilly narwhal]

Yeah, that’s my current plan. Heavily inspired but with more room for happiness

[rough basalt]

I wish I could run darker games personally

[inner silo]

I'll try it

[harsh hinge]

Disagree. The books are for me, not to run, and a player should at least have dice.

[chilly narwhal]

I love dark games, but I hate it when important characters die 😭😭

I’m difficult lol

[rough basalt]

Yeah, but you can go far with basic rules and gradually buy them as you go

[inner silo]

Alrighty, I'll try that

[rough basalt]

I just have this fear of going too far.

[chilly narwhal]

I’m just so worried that an important character will die as I get super emotional for some reason

[urban whale]

I have to know why is it that as an artificer I can get a automatic rifle at second level

[hollow estuary]

Creation bards can get antimatter rifles in any campaign

[chilly narwhal]

I don’t get mad, but I just start crying and am like "I will miss you so much, I hope we can meet again in the next life" sort of way

[rough basalt]

Yeah I admittedly added an extra round onto a mechanic that would've launched the campaign in a war direction cause I was afraid of letting the players fail in a game awhile back

[umbral girder]

DnD beyond thing

[rough basalt]

Course the NPC it was tied to ended up in a coma as a compromise for myself, but I wish I'd just let it happen.

[chilly narwhal]

Honestly, I think I have fun in campaigns where characters die because I get so invested but it sucks because I feel sad

[umbral girder]

They basically say “apply it to any of these weapons” and the automatic weapons too because of alphabetical order

[rough basalt]

First time I've really had an emotional moment as a dm was my last session

[umbral girder]

Automatic weapons are in the Dmg

[rough basalt]

Cause fighters childhood horse fell into lava

[umbral girder]

Not really the place to ask this

[chilly narwhal]

As a dm, I get way less emotional than as a player

[urban whale]

So then should I not have automatic rifles and antimatter rifles in certain time periods?

Because I feel as if that's not fair nor realistic

[mystic shuttle]

Fair enough. Just a thought

[rough basalt]

Yeah you're probably not gonna get those weapons in most games

[umbral girder]

Yeah it’s basically meant to be applied to an item you already have

[trail quartz]

hey im completly new , i just fininshed my character , what do i do now ? (dms or open)

[umbral girder]

#find-a-game to look for a group

[rough basalt]

Well what I meant is from the players

[urban whale]

You see that makes a lot more sense now. I was wondering why I could just get busted ass items

[chilly narwhal]

Oh sorry!

[rough basalt]

Usually the players I get are very robotic or jokey

[urban whale]

However, it does allow me to get a free bag of holding

[umbral girder]

Yeah artificer’s gimmick is getting items and enchanting them

Like Minecraft

[chilly narwhal]

Oh no 😭😭

[inner silo]

What does robotic mean?

[hollow estuary]

As a creation bard, you can channel the magic of the Song of Creation to create one nonmagical item of your choice in an unoccupied space within 10 feet of you

Antimatter rifles are nonmagical.

• It dosent say you need to have seen the weapon.

Profit.

[rough basalt]

They don't really register anything

[chilly narwhal]

That sounds awful

[umbral girder]

I’m guessing with very little emotion

[rough basalt]

They just sort of sit there and hit the skip dialogue button.

[inner silo]

I see, doesn't sound very great

[lean wigeon]

i wonder, what if we had kept true vancian casting in 5e

[chilly narwhal]

I would love to try one of your campaigns maybe

From what you’ve said, you sound like a really good dm and a fun person to play with

[umbral girder]

Then it’s just 5e with Vancian

[valid geyser]

Probably wouldn’t have been too too bad. Just make casters a tad less flexible, and the term “spell slot” would make more sense since you have to slot in a spell to an individual slot

[rough basalt]

Well I admit I've kinda gotten a bit robotic with my npcs emotions lately cause I don't wanna pour my heart out unnecessarily.

[umbral girder]

Yep

[valid geyser]

Playing more pf1 made me realize how much quality of life spellcasters got at the early levels

[chilly narwhal]

I would love to see what it’s like when you are invested!

[rough basalt]

Regardless tho, my favorite dnd memory is still the one session I ended up ugly crying irl

[jovial shadow]

It would much better without 'slots'. But those who only know 5e, wouldn't know how to visualize it any other way

[hollow estuary]

Players arent the only characters that can metamance.

Dms can too, Give all your spellcaster characters ottos irresistable dance, makes the entire party dance No save, and then use prestidigitation to have them constantly soil their trousers.

This will result in a dancing barbarian deficating in his pants not being able to do anything about it.

[remote wadi]

Wonder what that would be like

Specifically for me to do that, not to watch you

[chilly narwhal]

5e is much better than 1e at least (or 3e) in my opinion

[rough basalt]

Well, it was a 4 session "downtime" where my characters best friend died then he downspiralled into a mass murderer making a staff.

[valid geyser]

Prestidigitation can’t target worn objects

[hollow estuary]

Ehh yeah your right

[rough basalt]

Said staff was so evil it had a curse that would make my character attack anyone and I failed the save for that.

[remote wadi]

Ouch...

[inner silo]

Getting invested in your character sounds pretty fun

[rough basalt]

PvP then very heartwrenching RP later

[hollow estuary]

Actually no your wrong it can.

i just looked it up.

[bronze wave]

Just hold person your players and hit them with a lvl9 inflict wounds

[valid geyser]

Yeah I suppose so. 90% of spells that target objects specify not being worn or carried

[hollow estuary]

So yeah, the uncontrollably dancing and self deficating party is a possible combo

[rough basalt]

Yeah last time I was invested in a PC was my bard after that character

[snow agate]

sorry to hear that

[rough basalt]

It's been hard trying to get invested in PCs again

[inner silo]

Could you give some tips on how to do it?

[rough basalt]

I don't really remember how tbh

[snow agate]

it really just depends on the campaign + how much thought youve put in the character so half of it isnt up to you

[remote wadi]

For me, investment in just about anything is very difficult

Wonder if or how I could get help for that

[rough basalt]

Just be more active in RP and eventually it happens?

[inner silo]

Alrighty, thanks!

[remote wadi]

Well, I can't say much because the current campaign i am in is my first

[rough basalt]

I think it also depends on the group for some

[remote wadi]

But it is VERY difficult to be both invested and active for this when it's just... empty

[rough basalt]

It can be hard to get seriously invested if you have someone named Dinglefart the Poopgotten in your party

[snow agate]

i like the characters im playing but the last one i felt super invested in was like 5 months ago

[rough basalt]

I'm starting to get invested in my rogue, I'm just not used to having fun as a player

[inner silo]

I'm in one pretty rp light and one very rp heavy campings rn and i feel like i don't do enough rp in one of them and that my rp doesn't fit the tone of the game as much in the other

[remote wadi]

Not even just talking about joke characters. But that it felt like one of those dreams where youre stuck doing something you hate (following a party that doesn't seem to care for you or has anyone understand how you contribute)

But will end very poorly if you decide to not follow them or lash out at them

[rough basalt]

I did start getting invested in my Paladin this year, but that game was soured for me.

[hollow estuary]

I often get invested in my characters by basically

1. Writing a really cool lore document for them.

2. Making a (typically legendary tier) +2 magic item with other cool benefits, Example: Rosens hellflame, +2 shotgun, deals 1d4 fire damage and applies burning, can take a magic action to cast burning hands. and Boom! you have a really fun magic item to go alongside your really fun character.

3. Most dms if you put enough effort into your magic item and character lore will let you have the magic item because it spices up their campaign.

[snow agate]

at that point just leave

[remote wadi]

And then what?

[inner silo]

Find a different group

[snow agate]

idk, but if you dont like playing with them you dont have to

[rough basalt]

DM intentionally tried to kill the PCs with an unbalanced encounter and unbalanced against the players homebrew

So I ditched

[inner silo]

I'm taking this, thanks a lot!

[rough basalt]

He also changed certain enemies creature types on the fly so I wouldn't get the extra smite damage

[jovial shadow]

Sometimes DM's also get "invested" and it becomes a competition between themselves and the players.

[remote wadi]

It's just the same depressing cycle of searching for something that very likely isn't there

Friends that actually communicate and care about me
A job that isn't riddled with problems or ruined from a terrible manager and an at will policy
Or just about anything that could interest me like roleplay or a game session

It's virtually everything in my life that I'm choosing between a bad experience and none at all

And I'm tired of choosing none

[raw ocean]

If you could get an 18 in every stat, but you get 3 for one stat, which stat would you nerf?

[remote wadi]

Irl? I already have terrible charisma, so might as well

[inner silo]

Intelligence or charisma depending on the character

In dnd

[remote wadi]

Still same thing applies. Charisma and Intelligence are just a nope

[snow agate]

the unfortunate reality is all the people you went to school with who sucked still suck when they're adults, and its not intellectual or for ideology or some grand machination, some people just suck, and its very disappointing. fiction usually avoids this problem, because itd be considered bad writing or poor characterization, or wasted plots/filler

[eager marsh]

Wizard. Nuke strength stat.

[rough basalt]

I wanna run another game as a player but not in the cards till December is over

[raw ocean]

I personally would never nerf dexterity with the amount of dex saves in the game

[inner silo]

A strong wizard with heavy armour and a greatsword as a spellcasting focus sounds pretty cool though imo

[snow agate]

i think id drop either strength or dex since they're the least important imo

[hollow estuary]

Make sure to have the magic items properties relate to the lore of your character in some way.

Example: Mjolnir deals a additional 1d8 damage when thrown or 2d8 damage if against a elemental or giant.

Then I wrote lore about how thor when he still had divinity abdicated from the ysgardian throne, recieved mjolnir as a parting gift, then fire giants invaded ysgard under surtur, so now he hates fire giants (hence why it does extra damage) and then invaded the elemental plane of air to set up a new domain (hence why it does extra damage to elementals too.)

[remote wadi]

I'm saying that my options are close to none. They've ALWAYS been close to none

[eager marsh]

greatsword is not legally allowed as a spellcasting focus. And also strictly worse than just casting

[snow agate]

i read what you said the first time you dont have to repeat it

[remote wadi]

And choosing to actually deal with this campaign may suck for a bit, but it's better than not trying at all and just rotting away all by myself

[inner silo]

That sounds really cool! I'll try this with my necromancer

[inner silo]

Ruby of the warmage

[remote wadi]

Because one side is "no dnd is better than bad dnd", but then I'm also told "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"

[inner silo]

You could also try communicating with the players and the dm about the issues you're facing

[inner silo]

Yeah, it's less practical, but it feels cooler, in my subjective opinion, at least

[lavish flame]

who needs dexterity these days. i can be a superhuman klutz

[remote wadi]

Already tried that. Player's largely don't care, hard to not care when you also benefit from the things they do

And DM basically told me "Tough luck, make it work"

Which at this point might result in me making another figurative deal with the devil just to get my hands on a magical hunting rifle

[snow agate]

so you know how like a fruit juicer keeps out the pulp but only keeps the juice? what helps is to get more effective at that. getting some reps in with bad social interactions lets you identify them sooner, so that you can discard them and try again quicker and you suffer less issues

[hollow estuary]

and if you dont want to make a new magic item? Remake a old one!

Like I basically made blackrazor +2 gave it a ability to deal necrotic instead of magical slashing if you want, made it so you only get half hp of the victim as thp and no advantage, and remade the blindsight so the weilder can see living creatures within 60 feet of him and know their size and creature type (with the exception of undead and constructs), and added some things to make it a cooler hexblade.

and with that My DM allowed blackrazor to be my patron

[inner silo]

Is the game offline or online?

[eager marsh]

and waste an attunement? No thanks

[remote wadi]

That is a pretty nice illustration, but as much as I hate to say it, my experiences are closer to "You have to take the pulp with the juice while also accepting that the pulp can at any monent and for any reason, stop you from enjoying any of the juice ever again"

[snow agate]

ok

[remote wadi]

Online. Offline is not possible

[inner silo]

Sounds cool! Will see if there's anything already made

[inner silo]

It requires attunement?

Dam i didn't know

[remote wadi]

I'm really grateful for you trying to help me with this, but I'm saying this because how I saw it was just how life was since I was 7

[eager marsh]

Yea because it's replicating a feat

[inner silo]

Which feat?

[eager marsh]

War Caster

[hollow estuary]

I LOVE WAR CASTER

best feat for spellcasters 10/10, better then asi in my opinion

[sleek cloud]

It really is a spectacular feat

[snow agate]

its great being a light cleric, getting into melee range, and when people try to leave you hit em with the blindness reaction

[trail quartz]

any dm looking for a game rn , there 3 of us( all beginners lol) looking for a game on roll 20 but the dms keep leaving

[snow agate]

#looking-for-dm

[inner silo]

Ah. Well not exactly, it gives you more abilities, but also doesn't let you cast spells requiring material components without you holding your focus or the components iirc. Though i might be getting into details too much in which case, mb

[valid geyser]

I’ve never actually taken war caster

[snow agate]

thats fine you dont have to

[hollow estuary]

Please do asap. its amazing

[valid geyser]

Ok thank goodness I thought I’d be ridiculed for never having taken it

[valid geyser]

Yeah sure. I’ll do that on my… rogue

[hollow estuary]

I ment on a full caster

war caster on a full caster is like a DLC pack that costs 4 levels and makes you better at everything you need to be good at

[inner silo]

It sounds great but not super great depending on the character. If you don't really get into melee, have good con saves and don't have your hands full often, which i think should be most casters, the feat is moreso a couple of small buffs

[eager marsh]

Ehhh not really. Resilient (con) for a wizard is better at almost every level of play

[valid geyser]

Yeah, and a lot of the casters I’ve played are usually good when it comes to hands

[hollow estuary]

Advantage is better then the +3 proficiency bonus you get for like half the game

• war caster lets you cast hold person as a reaction (and any other spell that taregets only that creature)

[inner silo]

Realisticall you shouldn't be in a situation where that'd help much

[snow agate]

yeah i only ever took it on a light cleric i never used it for anyone else

[eager marsh]

Advantage for concentration spells only? As opposed to all teh con saves you make against everything else? Also you will almost never get the reaction spell feature of war caster unless you're abusing it to cast buffs on allies

[valid geyser]

Also at high levels proficiency definitely matters more than advantage

[hollow estuary]

Thats just using it.

[eager marsh]

Resilient Con is genuinely more practical use on average

[inner silo]

Yeah it sounds like it's mainly for melee casters

[hollow estuary]

You know that your proficiency bonus is still +3 at level 8 where you can just take it then right?

[jovial shadow]

War caster?

[eager marsh]

Yes

[valid geyser]

Notice how I said at high levels

[eager marsh]

I'd rather have +3 on all con saves than advantage on concentration saves only

[snow agate]

the main strat for any serious fight was
1: cast a concentration spell
2: walk into melee
3: fireball/guiding bolt/sacred flame/channel divinity
4: reaction AOO cast blindness

[eager marsh]

making con saves will very quickly kill wizards in many cases if they fail those

[valid geyser]

Yeah, and casters like warlocks get advantage on concentration at level one

[hollow estuary]

also it makes it so you basically dont need somantic components

or makes the entire purpose of somantic components useless and you can do them even without a free hand

[eager marsh]

Yes but if I'm a wizard, my hands are never full anyways

[hollow estuary]

you can have a wand, a shield, (or staff and shield) and still be slinging out fireballs

[eager marsh]

the wand allows the fireball without war caster so thats redundant

[inner silo]

Most casters don't have shield proficiency or can put their focus into it

[fickle heart]

War Caster vs ResiCon largely comes down to build, at this point. If you want to use a Shield while casting, War Caster and ResiCon are much more even, for sure.

[hollow estuary]

Alright this has.. kinda gotten to a more intense argument. lets just say their both really good

[remote wadi]

I mean, I'm sure they would take this as a topic over what it could have been

[fickle heart]

It's very much a pro-con breakdown per character, yeah.

[inner silo]

Tbh chef feat is lowkey underrated. It's really goated flavourwise

[hollow estuary]

i would just let my players have chef feat for free ontop of their already existing origin feat if they asked because of how not powerful and kinda fun it is

[snow agate]

so real

[inner silo]

Do you think it could be buffed into an origin feat?

[hollow estuary]

Having your ranger or druid huddled around a campfire with the entire party at night cooking a owlbear is just.. hell yeah

[remote wadi]

So, I took a small break for a few hours

Unfortunately, it just made me realize how much it sucks being by myself and being me

[inner silo]

That's what one of my players wants to do

[hollow estuary]

Just let them have it for free dude

like literally just give it to them dont even force them to use their asi to take it

its not game changing in any way really

[inner silo]

I'm thinking of buffing it and making it their main origin feat to make it more impactful

[inner silo]

Tbh i just let take whatever stats for asi, idk why they're background restricted

[snow agate]

trueing

[hollow estuary]

I just have custom backround for this reason on dndbeyond 2024 updated custom

[inner silo]

Send me a link, please?

[snow agate]

im just glad they made farmers tanks

[valid geyser]

Yeah I wish it was like, the short rest healing as PB extra per hit dice spent (so spending 6 hit dice with a +3 bonus is like 18 bonus HP) and the treats being like, five to ten times PB, because at level 17 6 temp hp isn’t gonna do anything

[hollow estuary]

in a sec im typing smth

can we just like apreciate how awesome grappler is now?

Punch and Grab. When you hit a creature with an Unarmed Strike as part of the Attack action on your turn, you can use both the Damage and the Grapple option. You can use this benefit only once per turn.

Attack Advantage. You have Advantage on attack rolls against a creature Grappled by you.

Fast Wrestler. You don't have to spend extra movement to move a creature Grappled by you if the creature is your size or smaller.

[celest ether]

hi

[hollow estuary]

Punch grab + stun one attack

[inner silo]

Monks must be happy

[celest ether]

would you guys would allow the batlesmith to get a fighting style and a mastery, I feel it is weird they don't have that as a half caster centered on weapons.

[inner silo]

You could theoretically make the multiplication grow with levels maybe?

[hollow estuary]

Your dm wont even notice 😂

[valid geyser]

Proficiency bonus squared

[inner silo]

Unless it's defensive

[hollow estuary]

I have like 2 fighting style features on my character sheet, as a barbarian, my dm has read over my sheet multiple times, and they still havent called me out for it.

[inner silo]

This sounds especially perfect since players love math, i think

[fickle heart]

Personally no, considering that the subclass introduces that stuff later on, which makes it less compelling compared to Paladin and Ranger.

[remote wadi]

So... now what?

[sleek cloud]

I’m telling

[jovial shadow]

Yeah I thought Barb had Fighting Style too. Surprised that they didn't.

[celest ether]

like a dual wield bladesmith is way weaker than just a bladesmith with a gun.

[inner silo]

?

[valid geyser]

Temp HP is hard to balance because the goal is to ultimately just soak a single hit at best. Even the best sources pop pretty fast or are a per turn thing like twilight cleric

[celest ether]

it doens't?

[hollow estuary]

And like these arent like minor fighting styles either, they are like listed as feats, and one of them allows me to forgo advantage to make another melee attack.

and my dms like a 45$ a session professional LOL

[valid geyser]

Like, twice level temp hp UAs seemed to love for a while is at most gonna protect you from one attack, when monsters are gonna make a bunch per turn

[inner silo]

I feel like there could be a subclass around a marginally skilled barb

[remote wadi]

Don't really have much i can do for DnD atm

And my break to relax was not the greatest because all I gained from it is a reminder of "Wow. Being me and being by myself sucks"

[sleek cloud]

That’s probably why they aren’t saying anything

[hollow estuary]

maybe

who knows.

[inner silo]

How can i help you?

[hollow estuary]

Barbs are already marginally skilled, they have masteries!

[sleek cloud]

So Abjurer Wizards am I right

[fickle heart]

What I mean by "introduces it later on" is that Artificer doesn't have any meaningful martial capabilities at baseline, and the trend is that only things that match those criteria get WM's. Kensei Monk might be the single exception of what gets granted masteries.

[snow agate]

got dwarf fortress recently and it kind of makes me want to make a character that's a blue collar dwarf who was just minding his own business, but his ancestor's haunted axe demands vengeance or else itll keep knocking shit over like a cat

[remote wadi]

At this point, I don't know if or how someone can

Can't say much more without it being more akin to a rant or vent

[inner silo]

Not like skilled skilled though. I mean like a fightery barb ig

[hollow estuary]

Does anyone remember the chronurgist wizard from explorers guide to wildemount. (dear god its crazy)

[inner silo]

Welp, if you come up with how, you can tell me

[remote wadi]

I've been trying to come with how for years

All that to know that I know how to fix it, yet doing so is nigh impossible

[celest ether]

oh but I mean in terms of balance a melee batlesmith is way weaker even with the style and masteries, I just like dual wield like sort of sword dancing

[inner silo]

Well, idk what to do except say, i hope everything gets better for you

[remote wadi]

I wish so too, but I'm not holding out for it, I'll be honest with you

Think this is just too little too late

[hollow estuary]

Chronurgist wizards can incapacitate as a magic action a number of times equal to their intelligence modifier at level 6, can add their int to initiative at level 2, Can silvery barbs twice at level 2 for free btw.

At 10th levels you can spell store for free.

[celest ether]

I would play AL to try if stuff like that goes unnoticed by them now

[hollow estuary]

its insane 😭

[celest ether]

they are the DM

[inner silo]

Guys, would giving your character a curse likely make the character much less fun?

But like a curse in exchange for a power up

[celest ether]

depends on the curse?

[inner silo]

Like vulnerability to radiant damage

[fickle heart]

Sometimes happens in design, aye. Some stuff has to be better than other stuff in the same places based on them having different focuses.

[abstract beacon]

What fighter would y’all recommend

[remote wadi]

Funnily enough, I did try to make my character have that. Base stat total was higher in exchange for a consequence the DM never told me yet

All that just to have 84 total vs an 86, 2 88s, a 90, 2 92s, and a 94

[hollow estuary]

you know my nerfed blackrazor I told you about?

Well basically if I get charmed or frightened, blackrazor will possess my body I hand my character sheet to the DM, and they just go crazy on everything until the condition ends, so its win in the fact that I can still fight while charmed/frightened, but its a loss because if blackrazor sees a chance to attack my allies while they are weak to consume more souls, it will.

[worn smelt]

looking for character ideas, i need help

[celest ether]

you feel really strict for a homebrew guy

[hollow estuary]

its a fun curse

[abstract beacon]

Is the battlemaster any good ?

[inner silo]

I see, alrighty! I'll look for a fitting curse then

[celest ether]

it's the martial that does most damage I think, at least full martial.

[inner silo]

https://discord.com/channels/516367331358801950/604757656565055589 this could help i think

[jovial shadow]

I think so. If I never looked at the Monk, I would have chose it

[inner silo]

Amazing if you remember to use your dice and get a bunch of short rests. Great even if not

[abstract beacon]

I’m between battlemaster and samurai, or even cavalier and eldritch knight

[celest ether]

is it true that the new elrich knigth does more damage than the batle master?

i heard they can now go full int

[hollow estuary]

.. why would you ever want to go full int as anything but a wizard

[snow agate]

i would suggest battle master

[hollow estuary]

intelligence is the worst stat in the game, and its even worse when you NEED to have it.

[eager marsh]

Artificer exists

[celest ether]

i think they can use true strike and shillelagh in the same turn now

[abstract beacon]

Which manoeuvres do you recommend

[snow agate]

riposte, menacing/trip attack, lunge or ambush

[celest ether]

or something like that

[hollow estuary]

A artificer with a +5 to dex and a +2 to int is gonna be more useful then one with a +5 to int and +2 to dex. Because now they can hit more, higher AC, higher initiative, higher stealth (3rd best stat in the game) they can actually grapple! its better

besides we forget that artificers are half casters.

[inner silo]

Disarming attack could be fun depending on the enemies and how the dm does picking up weapons

[abstract beacon]

Cheers mate

[valid geyser]

if i have 11 casts of fireball a day I'd prefer they be DC 17 instead of DC 14

[inner silo]

They don't even get extra attack, no? And they get cantrips

[celest ether]

an artificier optimized never would to at melee, all of them are designed for range cantrips spells or guns.

[hollow estuary]

They do! armorer and battle master

[eager marsh]

Grapple using Dexterity is Monk exclusive, most Artificer subclasses use intelligence for all their attacks, even the extra attack subclasses, and flash of genius bonus/uses as well as spell storing item uses are intelligence tied. All their casting is also intelligence reliant for saves and spell attacks to actually be good.

[celest ether]

exept armorer

[hollow estuary]

yes! guns! .. Dexterity!!

if you shoot with dex you also get initiative, ac, and more

[valid geyser]

i mean armorer gets to use INT for its attacks and uses heavy armor

[hollow estuary]

again, dex is better then intelligence in any scenario where you dont ABSALOUTELY need intelligence as your primary stat

[eager marsh]

Strong disagree for artificer

[nova trellis]

For a system I'm doing. Planning on having items that have their own soft progression systems. Plan on leveling being slow so in the meantime, want to give them toys to play with. These items level individually, 1-3 and give weaker character features similar to classes.

[valid geyser]

so for every artificer thats not a battlesmith?

[celest ether]

batlesmith can use guns with int and use barrage spell on top of that with the homunculus with the spell storing item.

[hollow estuary]

Tell me, besides for attacking with it (WHICH DEX can also do!) what is the benefit of this high int build

Spell save dc? Your a half caster, Cast healing spells bro

[valid geyser]

better spell DC

[celest ether]

the only designed for melee is the armoer and they can do strng chechs with int I think

[valid geyser]

half casters still want spell saves to fail

[eager marsh]

Being a half caster changes nothing in ytour argument. They get cantrips which outscale using weapons anyways

[compact brook]

where can i should my character sheet

[valid geyser]

rangers want enemies to fail entangle, paladins want enemies to fail compelled duel

[hollow estuary]

when was the last time you saw a ranger cast entangle or a paladin compelled duel

[valid geyser]

also flash of genius is the artificers best reaction feature and it scales off int

[fickle heart]

I care a lot about niche protection

I like to make sure my homebrew doesn't end up having classes encroach on each other.

[valid geyser]

like, all the time. Optimal rangers should be using their control spells when applicable, and are held down if they only concentrate on HM

[hollow estuary]

DEX directly increases an Artificer’s survivability and consistency, while INT mostly improves features the class does not need to function. Artificers are half-casters with limited spell slots

[abstract beacon]

Also Ik dex is like one of the best stats to invest in, but I’m still figuring out if my battlemaster should be dex or strength focused cause I want to swing a big weapon around

[celest ether]

if you are at range you can use heavy armor with no str or dex as long you ar proficient, just get a mount or a mobility item.

[hollow estuary]

For two handed heavy weapons int is better for that

[eager marsh]

you can still have a positive decterity score but maxing intelligence is strictly more helpful

[abstract beacon]

Huh

[valid geyser]

but they get medium armor, so they only need like a +2 dex

[hollow estuary]

DEX affects three core systems simultaneously: AC, initiative, and attack rolls (for ranged and finesse builds), and stealth, and dex saves are some of the most common saves

[remote wadi]

I guess I'll just exist here for a bit

[valid geyser]

for AC, medium armor
for initiative, who cares. Rolling high on initiative isnt usually the end all be all,
for attacks, again not all artificers are gonna need ranged attacks and finesse
for stealth, I'm not a rogue

[hollow estuary]

Artificers can replace INT with items far more easily than they can replace DEX. Headbands, infusions, and crafted items can patch INT checks and spell DCs, but no item universally replaces initiative, AC, and attack accuracy at once. DEX scales every round, every fight, with no resource cost.

[celest ether]

like the batlesmith can drop str and dex also the armorer can do that

[hollow estuary]

Even without being a rogue, stealth is the 2nd best stat in the game

[valid geyser]

and like, again flash of genius and spell storing item are the artificers two greatest features and scale off int

[nova trellis]

Thats why I go BattleMaster Archer. A saving throw that already works off my main damage stat and isnt limited to just bows.

[eager marsh]

I'm not wasting an attunement for headband of intellect on a class I am already just going to build a good int score for

[valid geyser]

eh, not really. Percpetion and then like, Investigation

[hollow estuary]

Perception, Stealth, Athletics

Perception makes the DM just tell you things, Stealth not only has a entire class based off it, but determines weather you get to do what you want without being noticed, be in places your not ment too, sneak by undetected, and athletics has like 4 different systems that rely on it.

[valid geyser]

headbands of intellect are only at like, level 10. Even then you'd still rather have a +5 for an extra +1 to your flash of genius and two more uses of spell sotring item

[hollow estuary]

Oh wait, Im like talking about like a more martial focused artificer here

[eager marsh]

also you can be attuned to anything else better

[raw ocean]

Just gave my character a terminal illness, I love D&D

[valid geyser]

ok but I sneak way less than I use investigation or athletics

[valid geyser]

again, even martial focused artificers want to support their allies with flash of genius and want to cast 10 fireballs a day. Also medium armor/heavy for battlesmith that uses INT

[hollow estuary]

You cant wear heavy armor as a battlesmith

thats armorer

[valid geyser]

i meant to say armorer yeah

also for initiative, if i want good initiative ill get a weapon of warning

[hollow estuary]

okay fair

[scenic zinc]

Ain't nothing stopping you from getting the feat that gives it to you

[eager marsh]

Taking alert alone fixes your initiative concerns if you value it so highly. Also calling people stupid isn't really cool here

[valid geyser]

multiclassing doesnt give you heavy armor unless you go cleric

[gaunt mauve]

What are we doing

[scenic zinc]

No thanks.

[hollow estuary]

fighter

[valid geyser]

multiclassing only gives you some proficiencies, not all

[hollow estuary]

okay yeah i was wrong

Alright I fold, Intelligence wins.

[scenic zinc]

I prefer single class characters unless multiclassing makes sense narratively for that character.

Also, it was unnecessarily rude to call me stupid.

[cursive thorn]

It was kind of poetic, that they were then wrong though.

[hollow estuary]

you get a feat every 4 levels, you can gain heavy armor proficiency in multiclassing with one..

[gaunt mauve]

Lol

[valid geyser]

yeah but taking a feat is easier than delaying all your spell and ability progression by a level

[gaunt mauve]

Preference on gameplay does not equal stupidity

[scenic zinc]

What does that in any way have anything to do with what I said?

[bronze wave]

What’s the topic it seems civil

[hollow estuary]

Alright yeah calling you stupid wasent cool, Im sorry. This is a game and you can play it how you want.

[scenic zinc]

Especially in '24 where all but the origin feats give an asi boost (and the fighting style feats too, I think?)

[remote wadi]

Couldn't tell ya

[scenic zinc]

Thank you for the apology

[idle oar]

Reminder folks that while it’s okay to disagree, please keep it civil. Thanks.

[hollow estuary]

we were arguing about weather dex was better then int for martial based artificers, I was advocating for dex, some other people were for int, Intelligence won

[idle oar]

I think it depends on what you’re trying to achieve and how your game context plays into that.

[hollow estuary]

agreed

[scenic zinc]

Dex is a very good stat overall for most characters.

For artificers though, int always wins out though. Especially with the FotA update in regard to flash of genius.

As well as many other reasons.

[hollow estuary]

yeah I learned that, thanks for teaching me.

[eager marsh]

update? isnt flash the same as 2014?

[scenic zinc]

I'm specifically referring to Soul of Artifice, which now gives back expended FoG charges on SR and LR

[vast pelican]

Artificers don't benefit from anything over 14 Dex

[scenic zinc]

Yes it's a level 20 feature but that's still a huge boost overall to an already great feature

[scenic zinc]

Dex saves say hello

[bronze wave]

I always put a prio on the spellcasting aspect for any caster. Spells are so busted

[mint dove]

Hi. I’m new here

[bronze wave]

Also mental checks > the phy checks

[eager marsh]

Oh see I was staring at Flash in my book thinking 'nothing changed?'

[bronze wave]

Idk if I’d ever rlly care for a lvl20 feature. Like it’s lvl20 and it’s supposed to be busted yk

They are cherry on tops at best

[eager marsh]

Never get to play lv 20 anyways so that feature means nothing to me on pretty much any class

[bronze wave]

All my chars start at lvl20 so

[scenic zinc]

doesn't stop it from being a feature added ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[jovial shadow]

I don't think level 20 capstones were ever meant to be busted, just something to strive for. I know the ones for Barbarian and Monk are definitely worth getting

[eager marsh]

It exists, not denying that.

[rough basalt]

i think level 20 capstones should always be pretty even in terms of power

[scenic zinc]

Level 20 cleric used to be extremely broken lol

[rough basalt]

which is something i didnt like about '14

[sleek cloud]

Shame on the ranger capstone

[scenic zinc]

Automatic success on divine intervention that wasn't just "lol free spell"

[rough basalt]

yeah you basically just became the dm

[scenic zinc]

Once every 30 in-game days

[rough basalt]

course they're not exactly even in '24 but the feature changes overall make up for it

Ranger doesn't have a bunch of features theyll never use due to DM or just being kinda useless
Fighter has more bang for their buck

Not that fighter was ever in any trouble but their buffs were nice without being overwhelming

[scenic zinc]

Druid no longer has infinite hp due to wildshape hp changes

[glass granite]

Are we talking about the 2024 changes to classes?

[rough basalt]

Ye

[scenic zinc]

The capstone related things, but yes

[rough basalt]

While they were stripped clean of flavor, they're mechanically very balanced for what they are

[glass granite]

Overall I do like the capstone features of 2024, except Ranger. They were done dirty.

Not to say the 2014 version was great either

[scenic zinc]

The stripping of flavor is such an insane thing they did. It was an overreaction.

[rough basalt]

As compared to
WotC: "Oh god my beautiful sweet children" staring at fighter, druid, wizard, paladin, warlock and cleric then "dear god get out of my sight!" stares at Ranger, Barbarian, Monk, Sorcerer

[scenic zinc]

I still hate that they didn't scale hunters mark but still made it concentration and even more important to the class.

[rough basalt]

They probably tested it without conc and it was insane

[jovial shadow]

Isn't hunter's mark a 1d10 now?

[glass granite]

At level 20, yes

[scenic zinc]

Doubtful

[rough basalt]

Nah i think they definitely did

They had time to properly test stuff for the '24 rules

[scenic zinc]

That doesn't mean they did it

[jovial shadow]

And you can also cast Hunter's without losing concentration after getting hit, at some point.

[fickle heart]

Pretty sure they mentioned testing it without conc and found it was too much, or something of the like.

[rough basalt]

yeah

[jovial shadow]

I don't know. Ranger looks pretty good to me.

[rough basalt]

permanent advantage without conc and add on swift quiver for additional attacks and you got a minigun

[fickle heart]

The first proposal for Ranger didn't have conc, iirc, so it was actually the initial offering.

[scenic zinc]

"Too much"

looks at dragonic sorcerer getting a concentration free dragon summon

[rough basalt]

just constant crits for 150+ a round

that thing aint that great tbh

[glass granite]

I’m fine with the 2024 ranger imo, expect the capstone

[loud tendon]

playing one right now.. in fact, I've had one of my games be with a ranger almost since I started playing D&D.. so like 10+ years now

[rough basalt]

Played a level 20 drac sorc and it was basically just a glorified dog

it did keep mobs off of us for a round so decent but not compared to a minigun crit machine like an archer ranger with concless HM

[scenic zinc]

I still mourn the fact that they ditched the overhaul to warlock spellcasting they came out with

[rough basalt]

Yeah the hostile response made them throw out the good of it with the bad

[sleek cloud]

What was the overhaul

[rough basalt]

made them half casters and you could choose your casting stat iirc

[scenic zinc]

Different spellcasting ability score based on the Pact you chose

[sleek cloud]

That would be interesting

[scenic zinc]

Along with having actual spell slots

[fickle heart]

The issue (from experience) is moreso the fact that this would come online immediately, be usable as part of multiclassing, and kinda invalidate the point of HM being important to the class and having conc in the first place, as the duration is so long that you'd basically be able to have it going in perpetuity without any issues.

[rough basalt]

oh yeah just a permanent damage addition.

[scenic zinc]

I'm more a fan of adding scaling to hm than removing conc, personally

[rough basalt]

Since you get free casts per PB

the free casts that scale with PB is honestly the biggest part of it for me

[fickle heart]

It's kinda unintuitive at first glance, but when a feature removes all of the costs to use it, the feature doesn't really end up feeling important and ends up really forgettable.

[scenic zinc]

I still hate that martials don't get anything remotely equivalent to cantrips

[rough basalt]

cause i think you're intended to use HM or conc spells based on the situation

Like if you're fighting two shambling mounds and some twig blights, then you wanna use spike growth

[scenic zinc]

And no, masteries aren't that.

[rough basalt]

but if you're fighting a Gulthias Blight, and some mooks, you might wanna just HM and machine gun down the Gulthias and leave the mooks to the fireballs

[vast pelican]

Yeah, two more points of damage per attack at level 20 is absurd for a capstone.

LOL right, I forgot

[rough basalt]

keep in mind you're always attacking with advantage

[scenic zinc]

?

[rough basalt]

at level 20

[gleaming lodge]

I feel like "moves" could be a good equivalent, e.g., you could do a strike to the nose to make an enemy's eyes water and give them disadvantage on perception checks.

[rough basalt]

since at level 17 all attacks against a HM target are with advantage

[scenic zinc]

Ah right

[rough basalt]

And permanent advantage at that level means almost never missing

[scenic zinc]

eh

[rough basalt]

if you roll two 1s its time to just pack up and leave

If you're at level 20 you're probably gonna at least have a +3 Weapon, so thats a +14 to hit with advantage always and monster AC caps at 25, and that's not accounting for other ways to increase your hit bonus like magic ammo, your fellow party members

Most monsters you face will probably have around 18-22 AC

[scenic zinc]

Monster AC doesn't "cap". There's no system rule that states that.

[rough basalt]

Official monster highest AC is 25

which is Tiamat, Bahamut and the Tarrasque

[scenic zinc]

Official monsters that don't have any items and aren't using any spells to increase their AC.

[rough basalt]

A Tarrasque aint wearing a cloak of protection

tho it might have one stuck on a horn from when it killed someone with it

[scenic zinc]

How dare you take their blanket away? No wonder they're attacking you.

[hot marlin]

Well until someone casts shield of faith on the aspect of Tiamat. And then you're in trouble

[rough basalt]

then you need to roll an 11 or higher at advantage and thats without magic ammo, party buffs

[scenic zinc]

shakes fist at Arkhan

[hot marlin]

Wait... Idea: The big boss monster is surrounded by a cabal of spellcasting priests. All of them are concentrating on a different buff spell for their master/summoned minion.

[rough basalt]

course you could just kill the caster

[hot marlin]

You have no idea which priest is concentrating on which spell

[rough basalt]

well i was continuing off just the one caster not the collective idea

[hot marlin]

Sorry nevermind, go on

[rough basalt]

which I love that idea

Make the other spellcasters get teleported around like a game of magic musical chairs

[hot marlin]

But yes. A fight with an aspect of Tiamat is already cool. But if that aspect is surrounded by fifteen dragonborn high priests all concentrating on a different spell, it gets a lot more fun.

[scenic zinc]

Who says the caster is even able to be seen? Maybe they're hidden away.

Don't need to see the target to keep concentration

[rough basalt]

My pocket abjuration wizard casts dispel magic

[hot marlin]

Oooh that's cool! Yeah something that makes them switch places when one of them is wounded. Like... Maybe they're cursed to be a linked collective, but they've learned to use that to protect each other

[scenic zinc]

Or they used Circle casting to keep concentration easier

[rough basalt]

god i wanna use circle casting as a dm

[scenic zinc]

As long as one succeeds, it doesn't break concentration

[hot marlin]

I only gave those rules a cursory read, but if they're using circle magic, doesn't that mean they're only concentrating on one spell?

[scenic zinc]

I believe so yes

[rough basalt]

I wanna have Hag covens circlecasting on the party

[fossil hollow]

cant wait to circle cast Doomtide

[hot marlin]

Instead of one spell each, I mean

[scenic zinc]

Or circle cast rautholoms

[fossil hollow]

yeah, but you have to end all three conc to end the spell

[rough basalt]

God there's so much i wish i could do but gotta be nice to the players

[scenic zinc]

From a mile away

[fossil hollow]

mummy lord doing that then

[hot marlin]

That doesn't seem as good as having each of them cast and concentrate on a different spell to buff their master

[fossil hollow]

one person muttered their name in the mummy lord's name, theyre screwed

[scenic zinc]

It isn't, but it's funny

[fossil hollow]

could have some cultists with them to help add conc

[rough basalt]

Reminds me i wanted to do a mummy lord game using the Mummy (1999) as inspiration

[hot marlin]

No. Enemies don't want to be nice to people trying to kill them. Monsters will do everything in their power and everything they can think of to end the threat the party poses

[rough basalt]

time to circlecast wall of sand and make a face in it

[scenic zinc]

"We keep killing the casters but the ward hasn't broken! Which one is keeping it up?!"

[scenic zinc]

-# all of them

[hot marlin]

... You mean like having five high priests, all surrounded by a group of cultists, each of the five casters concentrating on a different spell?

[rough basalt]

True I just fear stepping the line

Like i wanna run a bbeg like strahd, someone who just screws with the party and raises hell

[hot marlin]

Stomp that line in the ground so hard it creates a crater so deep magma starts coming out and they have to roll con saves against the toxic fumes

[fossil hollow]

spread them around

[hot marlin]

Strahd screws with the party unseriously.

[rough basalt]

yeah true

[scenic zinc]

Strahd is just an 80's cartoon villain

He's basically skeletor

[rough basalt]

I wanna have an Archmage badguy circlecast Meteor Swarm on a PC's hometown

[crimson gulch]

I had 3 liches circle casting, that was fun

[limber trail]

That's given me a thought. Do secondary casters in circle casting know what spell they're helping cast, necessarily?

[inner silo]

Counterspell?

[rough basalt]

He's in his tower, good luck

[fossil hollow]

Circle Cast with priests to have them all concentrate, then spread them around the map and hide

[eager marsh]

Meteor Swarm is already a 1 mile cast range. you can cast it beyond counterspell normally quite well

[rough basalt]

God i wish as a dm i could be as cruel as i wanna be

[inner silo]

Does his tower have a tree inside of it by any chance?

[crimson gulch]

Do it

[hot marlin]

So fun fact. My DM followed up CoS with a story about us being contacted by a bunch of Eladrins who wanted to retake the city of Cendriane from its current master. Its current master being Kannoth. Former Eladrin turned vampire. Counted among the ranks of the Archfey. And one of the best archmages of the feywilds.

[scenic zinc]

Narratively? Probably. They don't need to know it mechanically.

[rough basalt]

I just don't know how to

[hot marlin]

And you may think "So you followed a story about defeating a vampire lord with a story about defeating another vampire lord?" But the contrast was great. Kannoth and Strahd could not be more different.

[rough basalt]

I end up feeling bad

[inner silo]

Think about how determined it'll make your party to kill that archmage

[scenic zinc]

All it takes is open communication with your table and setting expectations of play.

[rough basalt]

Yeah true

[scenic zinc]

Just set the tone for the game.

[rough basalt]

But then you get players who moan and groan when the world is cruel to them anyway

[scenic zinc]

You then remind them with the setting document lol

[inner silo]

I mean, technically their character didn't get hurt

[crimson gulch]

Not an issue when you set expectations

[rough basalt]

Yeah I guess

[hot marlin]

So anyways, while Strahd was messing up, having fun and being immortal in his little pocket of hell where he believed nothing could happen to him, Kannoth was aware of all his vulnerabilties and pulled no punches. He had no psychological blind spot.

[rough basalt]

I had a plan on running a dark Daggerheart game when i get my core set set in one of my worlds most chaotic periods so maybe I should try running a dnd game in that period too

or just stop pulling the punches in the current era

[limber trail]

I do enjoy cutaway campagins in darker periods as an opportunity to get meaner and crueler

[rough basalt]

Like the last great war in my setting started cause a mage king casted Spellfire Storm on a small country's capital

[turbid vessel]

critical role calamity be like

[rough basalt]

As a test for that "new spell he made"

Honestly setting a game during that war could be good for a dark game

cause canonically millions of people died in open warfare that left the world itself permanently scarred

[sleek cloud]

“Then everything changed when the Spellfire nation attacked”

[hot marlin]

As well they should! Make the world cruel to them. Then they have to fight the world and win

[rough basalt]

Course said mage-king then flooded most of the world cause hes a wizard and wizards are evil

Bit more to it but I haven't fully fleshed it out.

[hot marlin]

Ok yeah but people often don't think correctly about war campaigns. Because wars are long and gruesome, playing a straight war story doesn't fit D&D. Especially if you make the PCs part of the army

[remote wadi]

Maybe for the next campaign after the one I'm in

Someone could show me how to play a good monk character

[rough basalt]

yeah iirc it was like 20 years

[limber trail]

You don't need to run a campaign for the entire war

[hot marlin]

Yeah. But a story about surviving the war and reaching a safe place? A story about a specific event of the war? Sure

[rough basalt]

Well i was thinking of setting it during one of the most deadliest periods

[hot marlin]

A slice-of-life where the PCs live in a village affected by the war over the years as epidemics and occupations and famines vary?

The best war stories tend to be about the microcosm of it.

[rough basalt]

True, This War of Mine is an example of what you're talking about i think

[hot marlin]

Well yes! I did not think of it but I should have

[jovial shadow]

What is this for?

[hot marlin]

One could also think about the Banner Saga where most of the story is about escorting refugees and making sure they survive the war

[rough basalt]

Honestly one of the most impactful games ive ever played (TWoM)

I've heard Banner Saga games were excellent

[fossil hollow]

ok, what spell should i make a mummy lord circle cast folks

[rough basalt]

Circle of Death

[oak shoal]

Ranger capstone in 2014 should have turned hunters mark into 2d8 minimum

[rough basalt]

oh wait nah thats too basic, do Insect Swarm

[hot marlin]

A circle made only of mummy lords? For which puroose?

[oak shoal]

Honestly make it feel like a mark of death

[scenic zinc]

most wars are long.

Some are crazy short.

[fossil hollow]

oh one mummy lord and some cultists. id say beeg and thematic damage

[rough basalt]

Insect Swarm

[hot marlin]

Insect swarm is the best choice

[hot marlin]

True.

Be sure to use The Plagues from Prince of Egypt as the soundtrack

[scenic zinc]

And a war can simply be the backdrop rather than (usually) actively participated in

Like a lot of the witcher series

[hot marlin]

I send the locust on the wind such as the world has never seen on every leaf on every stalk until there's nothing left of green. I send the horde I send the swarm, thus says the lord

[fossil hollow]

... you gave me more ideas, i will use the ten plagues before the players get tehre

[hot marlin]

Brb gotta listen to the song.

[somber oasis]

i'm having copilot teach me how to play rn

[fossil hollow]

i still think playing with teh big boys now is a banger of a song

[scenic zinc]

What does this sentence even mean?

[lyric viper]

If an AI, I've never seen an AI actually get it.
We have #learn-to-play and #dnd-newcomers where humans (I think) can help you out!

[rough basalt]

Maybe. Players villages are being affected not just by the war itself but how the war is affecting the world.
Like Monsters and Animals being driven from their habitats which is driving them into villages and such

[scenic zinc]

How dare you accuse me of being a meat bag?

[lyric viper]

Sorry, meat popsicle?

[scenic zinc]

Such a good movie

[rough basalt]

Like forces of two sides are fighting in a Swamp so a group of Hags that called the swamp home are driven out and form a Coven to pray on some people in a town they meet in out of anger.

[scenic zinc]

Lilu Dallas, multipass!

[hot marlin]

Eh... It's good and epic, certainly. But I still think The Plagues hits harder for the horror it portrays, while Playing with the Big Boys is still almost comedic, although it has that regal flair.

[somber oasis]

microsoft ai chatbot

i got dcd sry thts why that sent late

[hot marlin]

The point is, the sorcerers are comedic characters.

[scenic zinc]

Okay... so it's incapable of teaching you anything. It's regurgitating the SRD to you

System Reference Document btw. Also known as the basic rules.

[somber oasis]

idk i feel like it's not such a bad idea it's kind of helping me grasp the basics i think. i'm bad at going over lots of info all at once

[scenic zinc]

In general, not how most ai models are trained.

[scenic zinc]

That's why using that tool is actually one of the least efficient ways to learn.

Getting into a game and making a character that you then learn how that character works and playing is much more efficient.

Depth rather than width.

[jovial shadow]

Sadly AI is being forced on us whether we like it or not. It would be nice if the search engines gave me a toggle so I can decided to toggle the AI search on or off.

[valid geyser]

i know duckduckgo does that, the downside is youre using duckduckgo

[scenic zinc]

You literally just put "-ai" in the search bar

[knotty basin]

Use startpage

[knotty basin]

Doesn’t work 80% of the time

[hot marlin]

Many of my friends are switching to Linux to avoid AI being pushed on them by Microsoft.

[knotty basin]

Or linux

[scenic zinc]

Too bad google still exists though lol

Gemini is inherent to chrome

[vast pelican]

I use Firefox to avoid that.

[hot marlin]

Sadly.

[scenic zinc]

Good luck avoiding using Google products

[bright smelt]

Me and my buddies want to try playing dnd but don't have a dm
Is there a way to play without one

[vast pelican]

On a lark I asked ChatGPT about how to build a character.

[scenic zinc]

Why don't one of you be the dm?

[bright smelt]

None of us know how

[vast pelican]

I spent 15 minutes trying to teach it how ability score assignment works.

[scenic zinc]

Learn

[vast pelican]

Six different times it gave me illegal ability scores.

[bright smelt]

Ok

[scenic zinc]

Just have the book available, if you feel it's necessary.

[hot marlin]

Well at least WOTC doesn't seem to have jumped on AI yet

[lyric viper]

Being a DM isn't actually that much different to being a player.

[scenic zinc]

No one has to anoint you or anyone else as a DM

[lyric viper]

You're playing by the same rules, but instead of controlling one PC (and all their abilities) you're controlling NPCs with their stat blocks.

[vast pelican]

Didn't they try that in some MTG art?

[hot marlin]

Can you imagine? D&D Beyond, but every time you search for something an AI answers? And since it's an AI, it will spread misinformation. Like "a bard character is usually on a quest to seduce dragons"

[vast pelican]

Some bit of promotional artwork or something.

[scenic zinc]

-# Wouldn't be any different than reddit

[lyric viper]

If you grab a prewritten adventure anyone who feels up to DMing can give it a read, and you can all learn to play together.

[hot marlin]

Individual artists sometimes do cut corners. It's inexcusable, and I really do think it should be an actual crime. But there doesn't seem to be any company policy encouraging its use

I still think we should compile a list of all the usual D&D misinformations and their rebuttals for ease of access. We could call it D&Disinformation!

[lyric viper]

There is now, in fact, a company policy forbidding the use of Generative AI: https://dnd-support.wizards.com/hc/en-us/articles/26243094975252-Generative-AI-art-FAQ

[hot marlin]

Better than expected!

[fossil hollow]

Welp, the fighter in my party now has Blackrazor

[lyric viper]

Must have been a close shave to get it

[fossil hollow]

Oh yeah, the shadarkai they got it from was essentially a emanato avatar of RQ

[vast pelican]

Ba dum bum

[fossil hollow]

speaking of which, shes unconscious with them

[lyric viper]

A new friend!

[fossil hollow]

yeah, shes chill

[lyric viper]

The real loot is the friendships we make along the way.

(My players 'befriended' so many enemies... And gave them new homes, a small start up budget and a stern talking too)

[hot marlin]

Some of the characters I played would not miss the occasion to ritually kill a chosen of the Raven Queen as an offering to either Corellon or Lolth.

At least one character would have offered that sacrifice to both

[lyric viper]

Well that's not very friendly.

[hot marlin]

It's friendly to Corellon and/or Lolth!

And I think gods need friends too! In fact they may be more in need of friends

[lyric viper]

I'm also very curious as to how the 'both' worked. Sounds like an overly ambitious couples counsellor.

[fossil hollow]

yee, she was initially hunting them down to steal a curse from the fighter, but she has nothing against them specifically

[hot marlin]

Oh he was a wood elf who... Well while he considered Lolth to be evil and everything else, his policy remained "She is still one of the gods of my people, better than the foreigner gods. It is not my place to judge the gods"

[fossil hollow]

and shes a bit of a airhead. 8 in INT and WIS

[hot reef]

Presumably it’d be trained on official D&D content
But D&DB is already broken enough

[hot marlin]

By "foreigner gods" he meant all gods who were neither elves nor... Like, gods of primal things. The oldest gods. Like Tiamat, Bahamut, Shar, Selune, Mystryl, Annam.

[fossil hollow]

iirc theyre getting a rules asstitant in maps, right? Wonder how that works

[jovial shadow]

Speaking of Lolth if you never played Queen of the Demon Web pits, you are missing out.

[lyric viper]

I liked the multiverse part of that adventure but nothing else alas.

[hot marlin]

Anyways, religious characters should sometimes do some screwed-up things. Desacrate the shrine of the enemies. Offer some enemies as a sacrifice to your gods. It's fun and adds some spice to what can often be a rather bland character archetype

[fossil hollow]

blind obedience type of things?

[hot marlin]

Nah, that's not blind obedience. Those are just offerings.

Religious practice often comes with offerings towards the divine. And when you're an adventurer, what can you offer? Magical items you do not use, sure. And the lives of your enemies.

[lean wigeon]

more like zealotry in this case

[meager fractal]

Can a ghost and a zombie come from the same person?

[hot marlin]

Yes

[meager fractal]

Interesting

[uncut zenith]

Idk about should, but that kind of stuff is definitely a way to show how someone’s adamant faith can serve as a flaw

[hot marlin]

Indeed. And, you know, it doesn't really need to be treated as a flaw.

[uncut zenith]

Responded to the wrong message, meant to reply to this one

[fossil hollow]

had a short story idea for that, a ghost trying to lead their wayward corpse to the afterlife. Slice of life type of things

[hot marlin]

Oh yeah. Well, same answer applies. Adventurers are going to kill some people anyways. Why not declare the people you're going to kill to be an offering to your gods?

[uncut zenith]

Idk, the general act of disrespecting someone’s faith and beliefs is a bit of a character flaw imo. With some exceptions (such as if the other person serves an evil god who requires their faithful to do horrible things).

[fossil hollow]

oh yeah, what type of giant is hiatea supposed to be, or is there no one type she is?

[jovial shadow]

Yeah that was one heck of a maze and the way spells either didn't work or didn't work as expected was wild

[hot marlin]

I'm not sure it is. They are enemies, so desacrating their shrine seems like a normal thing to do. Sure, by our standards, it's bad. But for most of human history, it is a symbolic dominance that was perfectly normalised

[hot marlin]

A goddess.

[fossil hollow]

fair nough. Trying to look for a statblock for an avatar that isnt just empyrean

[uncut zenith]

Normalized in human history doesn’t mean it was right, but that’s just my two cents. It makes me uncomfortable at my tables at least.

[hot marlin]

Giant gods are not of any type, except the actual progenitors of the types. And the type is defined by their descendance from the god

[hot marlin]

I mean... Whether something is right or wrong does not meaningfully affect the characters. What affects them is if they believe it is right or wrong. But I am curious. In your tablea, don't you break shrines devoted to demon lords after storming a cult's hideout? Or a shrine to Gruumsh after fighting orcs?

[uncut zenith]

Demon lords aren’t gods, so that’s not a problem at my tables

[hot marlin]

I can imagine some characters refusing to do so, of course. But not out of moral reasons, just because they don't consider the demon lord or the god themselves the enemy

[uncut zenith]

Gruumsh is also not a god in my campaign setting, so also not a problem

[eager marsh]

Orcus used to be one but he ditched his divinity after seeing Ao's big fat list of things gods cant do

[hot marlin]

(Not actually how that happened)

[fossil hollow]

do we have wood giants in 5e somewhere?

[uncut zenith]

Not that I know of

[hot marlin]

You know, this does not change the essence of my question. Do your players never destroy things of religious significance to the enemy?

[uncut zenith]

Nope

[lavish flame]

Bigby's doesn't have any so I'd think no

[hot marlin]

(Insert joke about the One Ring being an item of religious significance to Sauron worshippers, I don't know, I can't think of a clever way to say it)

[uncut zenith]

That’s also because their enemy tend not to be gods. I designed my pantheon specifically to avoid things like this

[uncut zenith]

Sauron wasn’t a god, so kind of a moot point

[hot marlin]

Oh yeah makes sense

[eager marsh]

Sauron was a Maiar yes? Those are setting equivalents to Angels iirc

[fossil hollow]

wouldnt... Morkoth(?) be closer to such?

[hot marlin]

He was to the people who worshipped him. Gods are defined by worship.

[fossil hollow]

but hes also a fallen maiar or something

[hot marlin]

You're a god to someone. It's a relational statement.

[eager marsh]

pre Second Sundering thats all you need for divinity

[uncut zenith]

Not in Middle Earth. He may have deceived them, but historically even the people who worshipped him knew he once answered to others stronger than him.

[hot marlin]

It is also an inherent property to be fair.

[eager marsh]

Gods also answer to stronger gods depending which one they are

[hot marlin]

? So what? Being a god does not mean nothing is stronger than you

[uncut zenith]

Yeah, he was technically the same type of being as the other Wizards

[uncut zenith]

It does in D&D

[eager marsh]

Gods even have 3 rough categories among themselves and many of them are strictly weaker than certain primordials and the Lady of Pain

[eager marsh]

it strictly doesn't.

[hot marlin]

That is not actually true. Many gods are subordinate to other gods. Azuth to Mystryl, then Mystra, then the other Mystra is an example

[fossil hollow]

there is always bigger fish

[eager marsh]

Vecna had his divinity rank straight up downgraded. Acererak has killed gods for fun before

[fossil hollow]

then theres still ao, and the... whoever one

[hot marlin]

Jergal remains a scribe and advisor to Kelemvor. The elven gods are generally under Corellon's law.

[fossil hollow]

dead three are usually near bottom

[hot marlin]

He calls it "master" but I don't think it's a god. I think it's just Ao's mortal boyfriend and they have a bit of a roleplay thing going on

[uncut zenith]

Sorry, I read this too quickly before I responded because I’m multitasking. My ultimate point is that the “power structure” of what does and doesn’t qualify as a god doesn’t translate across all fantasy anyways

[hot marlin]

To get back to the original point: What is it that makes you uncomfortable exactly? It's not the destruction of religious items of the enemy apparently since it seems kind of okay for you to destroy shrines to demon lords. Whether or not they are gods does not seem relevant to that.

[raw ocean]

If it has a CR, it can be killed

[hot marlin]

Because at first you said "disrespecting someone's faith and beliefs" and then, when I asked, you said "X is not a god" but that does not matter. When you destroy a shrine of Baphomet, whether or not Baphomet is a god does not change the fact that you disrespected the faith of the cultists

[jovial shadow]

Gods come in three types: Greater, Lesser and Quasi. The DMG even notes there are those who are godlike such as Primus, but doesn't define him in either category. Asmodeus is said to have the power of a Lesser God, but isn't a lesser god.

[uncut zenith]

But back to my point, with my pantheon, I designed it so none of them are explicitly evil (at least to the general mortal consensus), even if some are more frowned upon than others. So even if someone isn’t a fan of say Bassarak the Crimson Crown, god of conquest, they wouldn’t go around destroying/desecrating his shrines and temples because he’s also a god of strategic warfare.

[raw ocean]

People don't like zues and he's not really evil

[uncut zenith]

The gods in my pantheon are designed specifically so any mortal can find a good or evil reason to worship them, so generally their places of worship are left alone.

Now their evil sects, mind you, are all fair game.

[hot marlin]

Wait, even NPCs don't do that? Destroying the temples of a people you conquered is an excellent way to drive the humiliation home. And cultural humiliation is a necessary part of conquest

[uncut zenith]

NPCs who do it are generally considered vile people, regardless of whose temple they desecrated

[bronze wave]

Oh damn you need an npc who realizes it’s time to revolutionize conquesting

I’d be BURNING those temples down

[uncut zenith]

But my current party, for example, would rather re-consecrate a shrine that was dedicated to a god in the name of evil in an act of cleansing than flat out destroy it. Which I guess could be considered “desecrating” to others.

[hot marlin]

Well yeah but they do it. Okay, now I get it. And there are no demon worshippers in your setting? That's actually interesting. Gets a bit away from the usual D&D fantasy

[eager marsh]

i only saw half the context but my current understanding here is that you dislike the concept of religious desecration so in order to avoid it you've curtailed the entirety of your religious pantheons to strongly discourage it instead of simply...not including such desecration in your games?

[hot marlin]

Well I for one think Reg's solution is rather elegant and interesting worldbuilding wise

[uncut zenith]

There are demon worshippers, but demons are categorically not gods. So destroying their altars and shrines isn’t considered universally taboo.

[hot marlin]

Ok yeah but people who do it still have disrespected someone's faith and beliefs. That's the original point

[uncut zenith]

In my setting, it’s relatively common knowledge that people who worship devils, demons, celestials, etc. who aren’t the explicit creators of the world have fallen under some sort of sway to make them believe they’re gods.

Generally, in my current party, they either don’t even touch a shrine or an altar (even if it belongs to a creature they hate (mostly cuz above table they’re scared of touching something and being cursed)) or the divine characters will at least try to dispel any sort of magic on it.

[fossil hollow]

oh, is this the yeenoghu one?

[uncut zenith]

Ye

[fossil hollow]

sweet

[hot marlin]

Bit strange. You don't really need to believe a demon is categorically a god to worship them. Unless you mean it's "common knowledge" in the sense that it is a false belief? Some sort of prejudice or propaganda being spread around demon worshippers and the likes?

[uncut zenith]

Yes, it’s common knowledge that believing a demon lord is a god is false belief

[hot marlin]

No, that is not what I am saying

[ebon dome]

Is 2014 rules very different from 2024 and why do some people still use the 2014 rules, wouldnt the newer ones be better

[bronze wave]

He’s saying ppl can worship demon lords without calling them gods

[fossil hollow]

yes and personal tastes

[umbral girder]

People don’t like change (or don’t want to invest in the books)

[bronze wave]

Ppl are used to 2014 and some ppl do prefer those rules

[hot marlin]

I mean that the false belief is "people who worship devils, demons, celestials, etc. have fallen under some sort of sway to make them believe they're gods" while the reality is "they worship demons, devils, celestials, etc despite knowing they are not gods"

[fossil hollow]

getting to urge to run planescape now

[hot marlin]

That is what I am asking. Is that "common knowledge" that people in the setting believe in actually false?

[hot reef]

They’re pretty similar. Some don’t want to buy new books, learn the differences, or have to adapt content to the new rules

[hot marlin]

Because worshipping something does not require believing that thing to be a categorical god. Only a relational one. "He may not be a god, but he is one to me", for one possible expression of that sentiment

[uncut zenith]

No pressure to respond, but I DM’d you. I have some reasons for my rationale, but it’s very involved with DM worldbuilding secrets and I may be posting a “looking for players” post this week, so I don’t wanna throw my secrets out there for the “world” (read as: server) to see.

[hot marlin]

All very hush-hush, eh? Well, no matter. I understand that your setting is specific.

[tawdry valve]

Just got an eldritch claw tattoo as an award for helping save a keep from being destroyed, I would highly recommend this for ascendant dragon monks

[uncut zenith]

Yeah, none of what I was positing is my general opinions about how it should work across all settings, just how I play it in my campaign setting

[fossil hollow]

please dont post the same message across different channels

[hot marlin]

But to go back to the original point: Outside of the specificities of that setting, I always thought it was perfectly normal in D&D to desecrate shrines and religious items consecrated to the faith of the enemy.

[fossil hollow]

me and my mad mage party just flushed out a temple of lolth

[jovial shadow]

I like to believe that know they are not technically gods, so much as they are trying to gain power through a Covenant or pact with the evil ones.

[uncut zenith]

I may have misunderstood your original point, and I apologize if that’s the case (again, I was multitasking but I thought I was done with my other tasks when I hopped on), but yes, historically in D&D that happens a lot. But that’s also because in D&D settings you tend to have gods who are categorically good and categorically evil.

[hot marlin]

Well in my Mad Mage party we did slaughter most of the Shar worshippers. Though I extended mercy to basically all the ones I just knocked unconscious. And the ones who asked for mercy. As for Shar's shrine, I killed the priestess on the altar and said "Well, Shar, you may consider her death a sacrifice to you. As an apology for slaughtering part of that cult."
And just left the shrine alone. But that's a character that I tend to play as completely amoral.

[uncut zenith]

Like Bhaal, Myrkul, and Bane have no qualms against admitting they’re evil gods in the Forgotten Realms. It’s not a matter of religious philosophy.

[hot marlin]

And also my logic was "Shar never did anything to me, why would I destroy her shrine?"

Very selfish character, can't conceive of why you would want to harm someone who hasn't hurt you personally or your loved ones.

[umbral girder]

looks at Shar

[fossil hollow]

why is making mega dungeons so hard

[uncut zenith]

Cuz it sometimes kinda feels like mapping out an entire city, street by street

[fossil hollow]

gug. i feel so unimaginative when it comes to monster choice or even just room layouts and sticking to theme

[bronze wave]

I love making them. I made this sewers so much fun

[umbral girder]

It’s a dungeon, but bigger pretty much

[hot marlin]

What is the dungeon about?

[umbral girder]

Easier way to picture it like a bunch of dungeons together

[hot marlin]

Start with the basics.

[fossil hollow]

this is still the cult of the dragon one, refining the dungeon levels

[crimson gulch]

Dunno, but I just don't, store-bought is fine

[hot marlin]

There are two schools for megadungeons. The Undermoutain school is to treat it as plenty of smaller dungeons. The Warcraft school is to treat it as one giant story

[uncut zenith]

I’ve gotten some pretty cheap (or at least affordable to me) megadungeons off of DMsGuild tbh

[fossil hollow]

all i know is i want:

• 3 levels (each with a "boss" at the end)
• two of them are dragon lairs (although all of the dragons are currently fighting a titan mammoth)
• ends off with a scion of thrym and ouroboros avatar fight

[somber yoke]

E

[scenic zinc]

How is an ouroborous supposed to fight? It's busy eating.

[hot marlin]

OK out of the top of my head, here are my ideas:
Your first level is the cultist living area. It is where the cult of the dragon lives and militarizes. Cultists, golems for security. Your end boss who guards the entrance to the next level? A dragonbone golem.
Your second level is the necromantic wing where the cult recycles the dead and practices their art. Your end boss is the head necromancer. You can add a bonus boss as a special undead in the center of the corpse/refuse pile.
Your third level is the depths that lead to the Scion. The cultists are only starting to dig here and there are old forgotten things frozen in the ice around the scion. As fires slowly melt that ice and carve labyrinthine tunnels, add just about any prehistoric creature you want and any elemental creature you want. For the boss you want some form of apex predator, at ease in those tunnels, who can stalk the party.

[fossil hollow]

... i need your mind incubus

[rough basalt]

My biggest dungeon I made was for my first game.
It had two exploration levels with enemies in rooms, then one boss room level, then a trap gauntlet to the bottom two levels which were another exploration and the end boss room.

[hot marlin]

Get back, illithid!

[rough basalt]

I miss my creativity back then

[fossil hollow]

why wont you pet the intellect devourer?!

[hot marlin]

Because it's gross!

[rough basalt]

The end boss had a lair effect that on initiative reset everyone would be hit with a Necrotic damage save and whatever damage was dealt would heal the boss by half of it

[scenic zinc]

-# Because it's hungry after being your pet for so long.

[fossil hollow]

gasp you didnt! Say sorry to Brian!

[cerulean monolith]

What we yapping about?

[fossil hollow]

well, duh, why would i make it eat other peoples brain

[fossil hollow]

flee, flee im planning

[scenic zinc]

I am unsure the joke made sense with this response.

[cerulean monolith]

Bah! Counterspell

[fossil hollow]

im no good source of food. so i look for food for my friend

[scenic zinc]

Too bad, it's a spell-like ability not a spell

[hot marlin]

Here are other ideas:
Dragon hatchery. One of the dragons living there has laid a lot of eggs. Maybe hundreds. Doesn't matter, you can establish that only a few of them will hatch correctly, and statistically most are unlikely to reach adulthood. It could be a hidden level. If the dragon momma has a fire breath, you could have an enslaved crazed elemental used by the cult to maintain the right temperature in the hatchery. Final boss could be that. Or some sort of draconic wet nurse or midwife.

[fossil hollow]

hmmm... they do have a red dragon

[hot marlin]

Dynamic for the midwife fight? The midwife can force the eggs to hatch prematurely in desperation. The newborn will only survive a few turns, but it is still a red wyrmling

[rough basalt]

Me giving all the Dragons in my world a Thunderwave at will of spell level suitable to their age.

It's definitely not Unrelenting Force

[scenic zinc]

-# i hate this, personally. I think if it's a spell like ability and has a listed dc or ability with it, that can be used for counterspell... but I understand why that would break certain interactions

[hot marlin]

PCs who are not careful might get swarmed by those wyrmlings. Establish that the midwife is controlling and commanding them to attack for added horror

[fossil hollow]

its funny how the gnoll demoniac has !not hunger of hadar

[fossil hollow]

oh, you just gave me a reason to use my echidna statblock early

[hot marlin]

The midwife herself could be half-dragon half-something. An older sister forced by her mother to take care of her pureblooded siblings.

[rough basalt]

Man I'm getting some homebrew ideas thanks to PoE2 and some other things but I need to sleep

[fossil hollow]

so.. remember that mother of monsters boss? yeah, im recycling it now

[hot marlin]

Go ahead.

Also, for pure motherhood horror, check Pathfinder's Drakainia

[rough basalt]

Gonna give the Bandit that defeated my Monday party auras for their next encounter if my Monday game restarts well

[fossil hollow]

yee, thats the one i drew inspo from

[rough basalt]

Aura's that he can change at will

Start using the nemesis system in my dnd games.
What's warner bros gonna do

[scenic zinc]

Your definition of funny and mine are very different

[scenic zinc]

Do you mean netflix?

[fossil hollow]

you know what my sense of humor is like. its broken

[hot marlin]

Other bonus level: The school. It is not part of the compound but they created some portal or teleportation magic that leads to a school used by the cult of the dragon where they train their most promising disciples in dragon magic (blasting, basically) and necromancy. Final boss could be the headmaster. Maybe a lich?

[scenic zinc]

Just like your concept of how large an eel is

[fossil hollow]

ohmygod, i forgot about this

[lyric idol]

Yeah your campaign is copyright claimed by Warner Bros

[fossil hollow]

more reasons to use sammaster

[rough basalt]

They can certainly try

[hot marlin]

For a bit of story... Maybe it used to belong to some noble family and the cult of the dragon took over their estate and used it? In that case, maybe the angry ghosts of the family members still haunt the place.

[scenic zinc]

I mean, it's far from a done deal. It's just funny.

[rough basalt]

They say I'm using the nemesis system, I say I'm having an enemy gain power in the wake of a strong victory to solidify his status.

[hot marlin]

Wait no, that's just WoW's Scholomance.

[scenic zinc]

What's wrong with that?

[hot marlin]

Nothing, it's a great dungeon. I'm just being unoriginal

[scenic zinc]

No one is original

That's the strength of our species.

[rough basalt]

Speaking of, I should rip off some MMO dungeons I like for my games

[hot marlin]

WoW vanilla and Burning Crusade really had the best dungeons.

[fossil hollow]

it is an old basalt fortress.

[scenic zinc]

You dare insult pandaria like that?

[rough basalt]

My friends from my ESO days when they realize they're running Fungal Grotto 1 in dnd.

[hot marlin]

Wrath of the Lich King was generally the best expansion but their dungeons were not great.

[hot marlin]

... I shall say no more, lest I speak ill of the dead

[fossil hollow]

eating popcorn

[hot marlin]

Seriously though, if you want a masterclass in dungeon design look no further than Blackrock Fortress, Dire Maul, Blackfathom Depths and the Weeping Caverns from WoW vanilla.

And, you know what? Yeah, Maraudon too.

Back in those days, Blizzard had some crazy good artists working on those dungeons.

[scenic zinc]

That's because they were going "how do we make wc3 in a way you can more freely explore" in their original design philosophy

[hot marlin]

Maraudon was splendid even in concept. Seriously? The tomb of the father of the centaur species who was a demigod? And the final boss is his earth elemental demigoddess wife? And there are ghosts of the first khans of every major centaur tribe roaming around? And there's a demonic incursion? And plant monsters everywhere because the demigod buried here was one of the inventors of druidism?! It's epic

[scenic zinc]

-# to tie this back to dnd

Dungeons are cool

[hot marlin]

Yes indeed.

[umbral girder]

What about dragons?

[scenic zinc]

And having a reason for them to narratively exist is very important.

[umbral girder]

They got silver and white dragons after all

[scenic zinc]

The story you tell with the location is as important as making fun encounters

[quartz sun]

Hiii… uh… am I able to like— find a dungeon master for a session anywhere??-

[cosmic roost]

Ready to play Dungeons & Dragons?

Visit #find-a-game for everything you need to start your search, including:

• Instructions for finding a game here on the server (including how to post in our #looking-for channels).
• Suggestions for finding a game outside of this server.
• Basic advice to help you in your hunt.

[umbral girder]

We have a channel called #find-a-game that explains how to do so on this server.

[hot marlin]

To explain: Maraudon's story is embedded in its design. Plant monsters and other "overflowing life" are the products of the demigod's influence. Rock monsters and rock giants are the product of the elemental's influence. And those two clash. Organic and mineral. Visually it tells something, but also narratively. Centaurs were born of a contradiction. And then you add the civilised element. It is where the centaurs buried their greatest hero-kings. And their ghosts roam. And that element clashes with the demonic incursion.

Through two visual clashes, the dungeon designers create narrative clashes which tells the story

[umbral girder]

Fallout style

[hot marlin]

Simple stories are often elevated to new height by a presentation that remains silent but creates an instinctive understanding

Setting is a character. More than a character. An interesting setting requires more effort and nuance to create than an interesting character

[scenic zinc]

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure warcraft is older than fallout

[crimson gulch]

by about 3 years yeah

[hot marlin]

Warcraft 1 is older. But Warcraft 1 tells almost nothing

[umbral girder]

When was Warcraft?

1994?

Ah neat!

[gloomy moon]

hi and hallo! I have an interesting character idea

[hot marlin]

So yeah. Anyways. The best dungeons are places full of a history. And it is best if decrypting that history informs the players about what they may expect

[fossil hollow]

welp, back to dungeon scrawl

[umbral girder]

Cool. #character-discussion would be a good place to share it!

[gloomy moon]

oh ok

[hot marlin]

Oh, Ti, new idea: Your apex predator at level 3? Make it something that wants to prevent the awakening of the Scion and the avatar of Ourobouros, operating under the false belief that the PCs are cultists. Maybe it was part of sealing the avatar down, long ago, and got frozen with it?

Maybe it's an aboleth or something

[fossil hollow]

Oh the thing that helped seal the Avatar is outside fighting the dragons (giant wolly mammoth. Search up Elderfrost Gammoth)

[hot marlin]

Well nevermind. Then make it some ancient beast that got frozen, now thawed and hungry. Maybe some sort of Mosasaurus but magical

[fossil hollow]

Hmmm... time to look through the Monster Hunter Manual

It was supposed to also have been held down by one of Bahamut's kin, so ill do that

i got 4 weeks til next session, so I got time to cook

[leaden lodge]

Why does a college of dance bard still have to use verbal when their whole thing is dance and they know speech or song is not needed

[high vine]

What do you guys think of a longbow that has the ability to use a spell that does 3d6 magic spell damage with 1 of 3 charges?

[leaden lodge]

Like what is the point if they aren't different than any other bard

[crimson gulch]

i dont se anything in the dance bard that would take away verbal components, singing and dancing go togeather quite well artisticly afterall

[oak shoal]

What happens if you drink dragon blood

[crimson gulch]

indegestion

[fossil hollow]

Just because they focus on dance doesn't mean they cant also dont speak or use words to cast spells. If anything, they should have removed the need to use an instrument as a spellcasting foci, not remove verbal (which is also extremely powerful)

[oak shoal]

Imagine it has the same effects of taking a pound of laxatives

[umbral girder]

Kills you depending on the dragon (like green or black is liquifying you)

Or you get turned into a Dragonborn/get a Draconic gift

[oak shoal]

So if I'm goated I get a cool ability?