dnd-discussion

[atomic kayak]

To a degree, but at the same time outside of super dedicated communities the term has been being used for a more broad genre of game than that for a long time. I'm sure you've also seen plenty of games/servers described as west marches that don't fit the "traditional" definition as well

[tame estuary]

I think of it like gmod roleplay

[ivory shale]

wait what?

[knotty basin]

What *is^ a westmarch anyway

[blissful dragon]

the two west marches i was in collapsed first the sever owner got salty that people didnt enjoy him placing a trade embrago of magic items and other sever rules so he rage quit and the other mods didnt feel like taking over

[buoyant oar]

It's less there is no narrative and more there is no structured narrative.

Player 1 finds a map to an elven tomb on an adventure.

Player 15 wants to explore that and asks the DM to prep that.

DM tells the player to round up 3-5 players and pick a time they are available for the elven tomb raid.

[knotty pasture]

I see factions I jump in, they always fascinated me from a game perspective

[ivory shale]

the one im playing has multiple dms and you can go anywhere an rp. is that west march? But rp is mostly between players

[blissful dragon]

the other just collasped cause no one ever seems willing to actual dm

[uncut zenith]

Traditionally, west marches are more than that

[knotty pasture]

When you put it that way Kas it sounds way less appealing, it just sounds like one gigantic unstructured sandbox session where it houses a bunch of mini oneshots or short games

[buoyant oar]

That is what early DnD was like.

[tame estuary]

a collection of oneshots with characters you're stuck with

[blissful dragon]

eventuall people got bored of grinding at jobs and guild actvities

[ivory shale]

its like that but its appealing to me

[hollow stone]

this is what i perceived, and thus why i wandered away

[knotty pasture]

It sounds way more appealing if its a gacha video game, where these actions are automated by npcs

You skip the tedium and get to see your little society flourishing

[buoyant oar]

For my Living Campaign I made a tracker of 22 cult members that are destabilizing a kingdom. It's was up to the players to investigate, find who is who and then plan the assassination.

We also added town building

[ivory shale]

bro, ngl that sounds hard to do

[knotty pasture]

That sounds like something that'd be excellent for a MC server

[tame estuary]

eh, just because it's not for me I won't flak people for it

[tame estuary]

it does, yeah

[knotty pasture]

Its not that hard to do, how gacha video games do it is that these campaigns are just divided into minigames where you can either participate in it or automate it where you get the reward in the end

[ivory shale]

in the Living world im in rn, I just 'login' evryday. long rest and do a job. but most of this is command based

[knotty pasture]

The gacha part came from getting characters that speed up the automation

[tame estuary]

that sounds dreadful to me

[ivory shale]

lol, i can rp but im not in the mood

[knotty pasture]

Surely there's better idle games out there to afk in than just a ttrpg sandbox

[tame estuary]

surely one can just install roblox

[knotty pasture]

Yessss

[ivory shale]

if you want to get encounters, just go for example mountains and then roll for encounter there and pick what you want

[buoyant oar]

What a lot of people think of when they think West Marches is a regular Campaign just with multiple parties. Traditionally that is just not what that means.

My Living Campaign is centered on the Kingdom of Tethyr North of Calimshan. And a teleportation ring can go to any settlement in the kingdom. DMs claim areas of the kingdom and house their own adventures. Anything that permanently alters the land is proofed beforehand by all GMs.

[tame estuary]

that's like, that's so detached from human connection

[ivory shale]

like i mostly work or research monster locations in the library

[knotty pasture]

I see the appeal but eh

[crimson gulch]

that last step there is a big turn off for me, im not about to put my plots to commity

[buoyant oar]

But since the players are all part of the same guild. The make of up the groups for each session is different.

[knotty pasture]

I mean I guess that sounds like you could always just have a game going easily, like a more organic version of lfg

[ivory shale]

then just go to a location that have people?

[tame estuary]

that's just an mmo at that point

[buoyant oar]

Tis why I became head GM.

I am the Senate

[hollow stone]

yea, i DND because i generally don't do things where i talk to people and DND is a talk to people and now this is my social connections

[knotty pasture]

mmottrpgs let's go

[ivory shale]

complains about no human connection then complains about too much human interaction

[knotty pasture]

Well its more like, with these games you basically would keep playing with different parties

You have more quantity but less quality (less time to interact with players you were playing with)

[tame estuary]

but you won't really "meet" anyone, share their stories

[ivory shale]

?

[buoyant oar]

Which is why 30-50 is best. Means you get a wide range of characters but not so many you can't connect.

[tame estuary]

ah

[hollow stone]

MMOs are uniquely isolating because while there is person to person interaction, but there is no interpersonal connections as all conversation is perceived as temporary and thus remains objective oriented

[ivory shale]

mate, have you even tried before saying stuff?

[knotty pasture]

Is this a real life game session or is it online with vc btw Kas

[buoyant oar]

For ours there's a text RP chat at the guild hall for shopping. Planning. Downtime etc.

[buoyant oar]

Online!

[tame estuary]

I have yes and I vasstly preferred playing on an actual table

[knotty pasture]

It piqued my interest, can I get a link

[buoyant oar]

We have people from all over the globe!

[ivory shale]

well atleast u have experience before talking about it lol

[old sluice]

Not literally all over. There are no D&D players in Antarctica.

[ivory shale]

wait whats the name of the server?

[knotty pasture]

That sounded more patronizing than it should be

[tame estuary]

it went on for 3 months before I realized I'm just not making any meaningful connections I want

[old sluice]

Though... Wait do you think the scientific expeditions in Antarctica play D&D?

[buoyant oar]

We currently are not recruiting right now! But. When this act ends around mid Jan we will open up. Don't want new people coming in at the battle of endor. Confused AF

[hollow stone]

there are more scientists in antarctica than ordinary people, and DND is generally a thing for nerdy people, and science is also a generally nerdy thing, so it is entirely plausible that you are wrong

[lavish flame]

maybe the shapeshifting alien over there does

[ivory shale]

@knotty pasture btw, the server i am in uses 2014 rules

[buoyant oar]

We are called Wardens of the Realms

[valid geyser]

I'm sure someone has

[knotty pasture]

Bet, I'll take a peek when the time comes

[hollow stone]

The Thing reference???

[tame estuary]

"players worldwide" 50 players

[ivory shale]

can i dm?

[tame estuary]

erm you're short 8 billion

[knotty pasture]

Uhh go for it

[lavish flame]

yuh, goated movie

[ivory shale]

do you know what worldwide means?

[old sluice]

You know what? I'm willing to believe it would like it considering how good it is at impersonation

[hollow stone]

i could be in antarctica right now and you would have no idea

[ivory shale]

ngl you sounds like nitpicking lol

[tame estuary]

I am jesting

[buoyant oar]

World wide does not mean every person. But we have players in France, Italy, Germany, south Africa, Korea, Japan, Australia, Argentina, Peru, Egypt, and Norway

Oh and Philippines

[tame estuary]

incredible project, how long did it take to garner that number and it staying consistent?

[buoyant oar]

We recruited the vast majority of our player base in 3 months.

[tame estuary]

I do really like that the locaation is in the land of intrigue

[buoyant oar]

We even had a giant meeting of lords on who was to be the next Monarch after Anais. And we correctly picked Queen Ysabel Linden.

[ivory shale]

my character mostly spends time in the bar

and then get unconsious for like 3 hrs

[old sluice]

Oh it's an elective monarchy?

Those are extremely common in real life but so rare in fiction.

[buoyant oar]

That is what we decided since Queen Anais died without a blood heir. Just the adopted niece of her half-sister/terrorist Evonne Linden.

The Tension teased in Heroes of Faerûn is very very accurate to lore of Tethyr.

[knotty pasture]

That took a sharp turn real fast

[old sluice]

One time I told a dude that there had been more elected monarchs historically than hereditary ones. Looked at me like I was an alien

[buoyant oar]

When we set this place up we knew to make it engaging we had to make the Guild hall NPCs have a lot of depth. They are not DM PCs but, they are people who respond according to player actions in a realistic way.

[old sluice]

Wait, you mean the adopted daughter of the previous queen's half-sister?

[hollow stone]

democracy is a necessary event for all government

[buoyant oar]

Anais adopted Her niece. Which is her half sister's daughter.

[ivory shale]

@buoyant oar btw i need to ask, is a housing server common in living world games?

[old sluice]

Oh. Then how was she not the heir? It seems pretty clear cut.

[ivory shale]

mine has one

[old sluice]

That is not democracy. Electing a monarch does not give you a democratic system

In fact, monarchy is always the exact opposite of democracy.

[buoyant oar]

The Tethyrian monarchy serves only at the will of the people and the blessings of Siamorphe the goddess of nobility.

The people were subjected to a war where a terrorist human supremacist group called The Branch of Linden attempted to kill queen Anais. The people demanded Anais kill all members of the Linden family. All of them. Or risk losing her crown. She compiled except sparing Ysabel. Who was 5 years old at the time.

When Ysabel becomes queen she is around 30 in 1498. She has not received the blessing. And the people are very weary of a Linden sitting upon the Rhindaun throne. Anais. Adopted Ysabel and said she preferred to be the Linden girl to be heir but made no declarations as to such in life. As doing so would have probably caused rioting.

[old sluice]

Ok now that makes sense.

I always liked the political parts of games like those

[buoyant oar]

In our space which bridges the gap between the Novel the Fanged Crown and Heroes of Faerûn. We decided that Ysabel is an economic powerhouse. And the lords and ladies of Tethyr are willing to look past her birth name for a lot of money.

[old sluice]

It's a bit like... Okay so someone said something I thought was brilliant about House of the Dragon. That you could see the conflict as being between two conceptions of the law. Does the word of the king bypass the laws and traditions? The king declared the daughter his heir while he had no son. Then he had a son. While it was acceptable when he only had a daughter, the question is: Can the king really declare his own heir while no other lord is allowed to? Can the king disregard the laws and traditions?
Seen that way, you could argue that the greens have a legalistic position where kings are under the law while the blacks have an absolutist position.

And when you frame the conflict like that, it becomes fascinating to me.

[buoyant oar]

A housing server?

[abstract beacon]

I’m boutta flip tf out idk what to do

Im dming for the first time time after my current campaign and the party size is increasing by half possibly 1 more

[still plover]

You're the DM, you get to say who plays.

[abstract beacon]

Yeah but what if they want to play ?

They’re my friends is all

[buoyant oar]

Super easy.

"Can such and such join?"

"No."

Fin

[abstract beacon]

It’s not randoms being invited

[crimson gulch]

stop inviting more players than you are comfortable running for, Setting boundaries is SO VERY key to running a good game

[hollow stone]

to be more charismatic, "sorry but if the party size increases any more than the current measure i will cry."

[still plover]

Arrange two groups.

[abstract beacon]

Ok ok ok

[buoyant oar]

Then,

"Sorry I have reached the maximum number of players I am comfortable with."

[old sluice]

My life got a lot better when I started to tell my friends "No, this game I am running is not the kind where you would fit"

[abstract beacon]

I was ok with 5 , maybe I can do 6 but ain’t no way I’m doing 7

[hollow stone]

one of my DMs has to deal with 8 players whos apparition is hardly consistent and idk how they manage lol

[abstract beacon]

Bruh

[crimson gulch]

my max is usualy 6 but sometimes i go up to 7, and once i did a 14 player game

[abstract beacon]

The thing is the 7th guy was part of our current campaign at the start as a player and he quit 2 hours in cause he was bored

[abstract beacon]

14???? What was the quest ? Defeat Sauron ?

[old sluice]

Please that only required two PCs and a lot of NPCs.

[crimson gulch]

it was my birthday so i had all my normal players over plus 10 more guests so i printed off pregen charicters and we went into a dungoen i improvised on the fly

[abstract beacon]

It was a one shot right ?

[old sluice]

You can't tell me Gandalf is not a DMPC

[crimson gulch]

no, i slid it in as a session of my normal campaign

[abstract beacon]

Oh

[shy stirrup]

He kinda is, but - a well-handled, well-played one, as his mission requires he guides, not leads

[cerulean monolith]

A DMPC by definition uses the character creation rules. Gandalf is clearly behind the normal scaling of the campaign, and thus is just a regular NPC

[shy stirrup]

Yea also true

[rough basalt]

Yeah Gandalf and the others are handled well for what they are in the story of LotR

[crimson gulch]

nah, a DMPC can break the pc rules, its more about where they are inserted and what they are doing in the campaign as controlled by the DM

[buoyant oar]

Gandalf isn't a DMPC. Gandalf is a Planetar Monster

[rough basalt]

True

It's a campaign about one Planetar vs two other Planetars and their mortal tagalongs

[shy stirrup]

In a way, yea

[abstract beacon]

Anyways , I’ve made a map, asked players for their backstories to try to fit into the world ,(2 have not made yet), I’ve grabbed 1 side quest from online , and I’m currently trying to figure out what the story will be as I have already decided how they meet

[buoyant oar]

Define your baddie now. Who what when where why and how

[old sluice]

I mean sure, but I can't help but think that LoTR is a disastrous campaign. The DM lore dumps, they never meet the BBEG, NPCs monologue at each other, the party splits and one half of the party ends up doing a distraction so that another PC on the other side of the continent can fail a wisdom save on which the entire resolution hinges

[rough basalt]

About a Gardener eavesdropping on his friend and boss and ends up saving the world

[lavish flame]

Personally, I've never felt that a DMPC needed to use the character creation rules. I always thought it was more a vibe of "there's some person who's always with us who is under the DM's control"

[old sluice]

And when that PC fails that final wisdom save, the solution comes from an NPC failing a dex save!

[buoyant oar]

That's because hot take incoming LotR shouldn't be described as a fantasy story.

[cerulean monolith]

LotR is almost universally used as an example of bad DM tactics in regards to general playstyle of 5e for this reason

[abstract beacon]

Let’s assume the party is 6 players , so far we have a an undead warlock, an echo knight , a path of the beast barbarian and a sorcerer

[cerulean monolith]

Hard disagree. It’s literally THE basis of modern high fantasy

[rough basalt]

Saruman being the railroading DM to force them into a TPK encounter

[old sluice]

Great book though but yeah. Do not run your campaign like that

[buoyant oar]

LotR has more in common with The Odyssey, Beowulf, Gilgamesh, and the Journey to the West than any bit that is it's contemporaries

[reef tundra]

I think a good consensus is not running a campaign like a book or film in general

[old sluice]

Now this is a take I need you to elaborate on.

[buoyant oar]

LotR is a Mythic story.

[rough basalt]

Now there is some stuff from LotR you could take tho

[old sluice]

But those are not mutually exclusive things. Something can be fantasy and mythic

[rough basalt]

Like having Wizard bbegs attacking the party from long distance even if just to hinder them.

[valid geyser]

i mean i wouldnt say it being very based on mythology makes it less of a fantasy story

[shy stirrup]

I think we can all agree a campaign, an adventure, is not a novel, or movie, no matter how good that movie/book is

[cerulean monolith]

LotR is an epic, but it ALSO a modern fantasy story. It is, in fact, the first modern fantasy story

[hollow stone]

there's one lore accurate thing that LOTR and DND has, which is utterly tragic naming conventions because they were made up on the spot

[buoyant oar]

Modern fantasy? LotR is over 70 years old

[old sluice]

Wizard BBEG using control weather to make a snow storm while the PCs are trying to go through an extremely dangerous mountain pass is indeed a great idea

[lavish flame]

These are all fantasy stories

[cerulean monolith]

Yes? And?

[hollow stone]

Deagol and Smeagol. Sauron and Saruman. Bilbo Baggins. absolute goober tier names lmfao

[valid geyser]

and modern art is a term that's existed for a century

[lavish flame]

Is this a Modern v Contemporary delineation?

[buoyant oar]

It's really not the founder of the modern fantasy genre it's something unique.

[cerulean monolith]

All modern fantasy is derived from LotR. Most contemporary fantasy is as well

[abstract beacon]

I was thinking maybe that the story revolved around the bbeg trying to weaken the current government (aka Skyrim style empire but we are not at the heart of it), assume control of the island which is split into 3 parts controlled by men dwarves and elves ( part of said government) , then rage war on the rest of the kingdom from said island by manifesting a dark power to become stronger there

[buoyant oar]

I would not say all modern fantasy is derived from LotR. That is a big stretch.

[rough basalt]

Indeed.
Now to look forward to when I got a Wizard bbeg

[valid geyser]

i think that is debatable, but i think at least in terms of d&d, you are partially right. LOTR was stated not to be a major inspiration for d&d around its creation, stated to only be in there because its popular (a claim i kind of doubt since the statement wasnt long after TSR got sued by the guys with the rights for tolkien's stuff at the time)

[abstract beacon]

What y’all think

[old sluice]

I would say though that Kas is right on one thing. The genre and tropes of D&D owe a lot more to Conan and other pulp fantasy related to it than to Tolkien

[valid geyser]

and i think lotr at least was an inspiration, but mostly in the more surface level things. People havent much tried to be uber poetic like tolkien was

[spring light]

nono, original d&d just happened to have only elves, dwarves, humans, and hobbits by total conincidence.

[humble cairn]

Absolutely not, there are other sources of fantasy than Tolkien.

[old sluice]

LotR's influence on D&D is a lot more superficial in comparison

[humble cairn]

Wuxia is a huge fantasy genre and it has nothing to do with Tolkien or LOTR.

[old sluice]

To be more precise: The influences of LotR are in aesthetics. The storytelling of D&D is pulp fantasy

[cerulean monolith]

Indeed it is, but it is distinct from modern fantasy

[humble cairn]

No, it is a genre of modern fantasy.

[buoyant oar]

Besides there is Prattchet, Martin, Moorcock, Jordan, Sanderson, Rothfus, Abercrombie, Williams. And so many others that did more to contribute to fantasy than 4 books that Tolkien wrote in life. These do not downplay his work. But he is not the foundation of fantasy.

[abstract beacon]

Man this all started cause I said the party of 14 were fighting Sauron

[buoyant oar]

Fantasy existed long before Tolkien.

[hollow stone]

i remember one thing i saw wherr there existed a weirdly consistent pattern between governments in fantasy settings (particularly shady governments) and the catholic church's government system in the 1500s

[craggy cairn]

Wuxia is fascinating to me, but I was never able to figure out much about it

[cerulean monolith]

Though, to be fair, I don’t see much value in genres in general. Stories shouldn’t be categorized into neat boxes

[humble cairn]

The grandmaster of the wuxia was even a chronological contemporary of Tolkien and reportedly wrote his stories in response to much the same thing Tolkine did, WWII.

[old sluice]

It's not too complicated. Mastery of skill leads to supernatural skills. There are multiple families of techniques. Heroes are generally wanderers. Each hero was often trained in one specific school that practices one family of techniques. Conflicts are often political in nature. There is a divide between the ordinary people and the people who received that training. Those are the fundamental characteristics of the storytelling of the genre.

[buoyant oar]

The basis for my take. That LotR is not fantasy is superficial I know.

It's. In 500 years. I don't believe Tolkien will be listed in the fantasy genre in book stores. He will be listed amongst the Myths section. Along side Beowulf, the Odyssey, and the Journey to the West.

[abstract beacon]

How many monsters should a party of 6 be fighting on average ?

[buoyant oar]

Because that is imo inherently where it belongs.

[cerulean monolith]

I doubt Tolkien will stand the test of time, tbh

[humble cairn]

And not to mention that there are modern and contemporary fantasy genres like manwha and donghua that take from wuxia way more than than they take from LOTR.

[lavish flame]

Definitely depends on the type of encounter, but I'd shoot for 3-10

[buoyant oar]

Heheheh. One of my hot takes was actually spicy.

[abstract beacon]

At lvl 1 how many orcs can they take on

[lavish flame]

For a boss with lieutenants, I'd shoot for 3 or 4. For a horde of enemies, I'd get closer to 8 or 9

[lavish flame]

oh good god, level 1s can't do much

[abstract beacon]

I was gonna give them a guard captain as an ally too

[hollow stone]

eh, sure, i don't see why he wouldn't

[lavish flame]

I'd do like 3 or 4 Orcs at a time

[crimson gulch]

5 to 8 encounters worth per day as calvulates by the exp budget

[old sluice]

(For the mainstream classics of Wuxia check Ninja Scroll, Thunderbolt Fantasy, Kung Fu Panda...)

[craggy cairn]

Start by probing your party’s abilities. Start small, give them little risk, I’d say

[abstract beacon]

Ok ok, at lvl 2 can they fight a green dragon wyrmling?

[humble cairn]

Not even to mention the related genre of xianxia that is even more fantastical.

[old sluice]

Note: You will notice that D&D monks are basically the product of imported Wuxia tropes.

[craggy cairn]

Sounds accurate

[humble cairn]

They are, and it was super awkward when they first did it.

[old sluice]

Xianxia is basically what happens when the martial artists of Wuxia are turned into demigods.

[crimson gulch]

For sure, they may even survive

[abstract beacon]

Oh

[humble cairn]

And/or you start involving the dieties and spirits of myth into your wuxia.

[lavish flame]

They might be able to, but I'd worry about one or more casualties. That poison breath attack is likely to outright kill a weaker PC like a Wizard or Sorcerer.

[old sluice]

So if a level 20 monk is a wuxia hero... To make a xianxia hero you need a character who is a level 20 monk, level 20 wizard and multiple subclasses of both classes.

[reef tundra]

“Ki” was what gave it away for me when I read the 2014 rules

The face I made when I read “ki”…

[craggy cairn]

I immediately thought of Dragon Ball, personally

[knotty pasture]

My first instinct that it was a dbz reference

[abstract beacon]

I’m thinking as a side quest to give them the death-at-sunset pre-made from dragon delves

[humble cairn]

They changed it to Focus, which was the word I would have picked!

[knotty pasture]

Same lmao

[reef tundra]

I am so happy about that

[humble cairn]

And Dragon Ball was based on Journey to the West, which was also made into various xianxia series like ... so many times.

[old sluice]

Yeeees... and no. Journey to the West, which Dragon Ball parodies, is essentially a xianxia story. But dragon ball does not have the necessary hallmarks of a xianxia story.

[humble cairn]

Yeah it's like .. scifi?

[blissful dragon]

wasnt that cause the higher ups told the creator to make it like journey to the west at the start?

[old sluice]

Dragon Ball has, with the exception of three story arcs, remained mostly comedic. Xianxia is a genre that takes itself very seriously

[humble cairn]

I do not know the origins of Dragon Ball.

[hollow stone]

see i first heard (or at least actualized the definition) of ki through the multiple possible spellings of the concept of qi in the actual medical practice of meditational tai chi, so i was pretty confused seeing that concept being so heavily mistranslated into something it completely wasn't

[humble cairn]

Ki is the anglicized word for the Japanese concept of that.

[knotty pasture]

Sci-fi with fantasy elements I'd say, Dragon Ball really gave us an answer of what happens if you mix Sci-Fi with Fantasy

[humble cairn]

"Chi" or "qi" would be the pinyin versions of the Chinese word.

[abstract beacon]

Is 2014 better for new players, cause in our group we have a veteran of 2014 and another guy who knows it pretty well but I was thinking someday that we play 2024 rules but they think it changes the game a lot

[old sluice]

And mostly... A kamehameha is basically the same thing as a garlick gun or whatever. In xianxia the techniques are different. The techniques matter. And the characters have access to very elaborate and esoteric spells. Which Dragon Ball does not have. Its power system is essentially limited to "they punch each other good" and "that guy makes bigger energy attacks than this guy"

[reef tundra]

It doesn’t change it too much

[humble cairn]

2024 is basically cleaned up and less confusing, so I think it's better for new players.

[hollow stone]

oohhhh that makes more sense

[abstract beacon]

Oh alright then

By the gods I’m cooked

[hollow stone]

either way its placement in DND was extremely far off from the concept

[humble cairn]

So D&D decided to use the Japanese word for some reason, but it is basically chi. And yes, very off from the real life concept and totally not doing it justice, so it was good that it was changed.

[old sluice]

And Xianxia and Wuxia tend to be slightly more amoral than what western storytelling is usually about too.

[knotty pasture]

JP probably the only specific real life reference in dnd

[abstract beacon]

Paladin is better in 2014 tho right ? I’m thinking of playing one in the campaign after the one I dm

[humble cairn]

Oh totally, something that the live action Mulan got really wrong.

[knotty pasture]

Ki, then we got the Samurai

[humble cairn]

I really liked playing a 2024 Paladin, myself.

[old sluice]

The live action Mulan, despite its aesthetic, was a western superhero story in every way.

[abstract beacon]

Heard he’s weaker tho cause of how they changed smite

[reef tundra]

Yes and no. 2014 can smite multiple times in one turn, but 2024 paladin is better in many other ways. IMO

[humble cairn]

I honestly don't think so.

[buoyant oar]

I think so.

And good.

[abstract beacon]

Thanks y’all

[reef tundra]

Their damage is still very good though

[humble cairn]

Maybe they have less burst damage, but that's not the only thing that makes a class good?

[abstract beacon]

Still don’t know how I’m gonna work out this campaign

[buoyant oar]

First time running?

[abstract beacon]

Yea

[reef tundra]

Hey don’t worry, trust your instincts

[buoyant oar]

Limit yourself and your players to PHB only.

[abstract beacon]

No homebrew you mean

[hollow stone]

no, there are 40 quintillion books outside of the PHB

[buoyant oar]

And no Tasha's or Xanthars or any of that stuff.

The less options you have to think about right now will lessen your stress.

[crimson gulch]

Limiting to the phb is a great idea for a new game for sure, no third party books, no expanded rules, no homebrew player options

[humble cairn]

I mean PHB only would mean no homebrew, yes. But it also means no other books besides the PHB.

[crimson gulch]

Keep things manageable

[abstract beacon]

I’ve made the world , the setting , only thing missing is the main story and how to keep the players as party, give them a purpose

[abstract beacon]

Got it

[hollow stone]

i consider "basegame" to just be the DMG, PHB, and Core Rules

[buoyant oar]

It is the players job to find their own motivation.

[humble cairn]

You could make it even easier for yourself if you use a module, a prewritten adventure.

[abstract beacon]

Yea that’s true

[humble cairn]

As for how to make them a party, assign them the job of making themselves a party in Session 0. Have them create their characters together and know each other before game starts.

[buoyant oar]

And if a hard cover module is too much I recommend adventurers League season 1. The Tyranny of Dragons adventures they are one to two session quests.

[abstract beacon]

Our current dm is a first timer too and he’s just winging it

[abstract beacon]

For the opening I’ve decided that they will be transported as prisoners for crimes they either did or did not commit( up to them) and as they’re about to be executed the guards are attacked by an orcish warband, with 1 of the guards freeing the players and giving them their weapons to help fight off the invaders, after that idk

[craggy cairn]

Literally the opening of Skyrim. It has promise

[abstract beacon]

I want to make the bbeg a wizard/sorcerer or a Sauron type guy who can engage both in melee and magic, as for his story I wrote it above

[abstract beacon]

Yea but instead of alduin it’s an orcish warband

[ruby patio]

Oh my gosh, as a forever DM I try to find players for my ideas all the time and tend to switch up my players from time to time and I never make them be interested in a main story hook but I usually set up a premise and ask them to have something in their backstory that I can have to incorporate and get their characters to have a reason to do something and I had one party one time, and they just HATED finding motivation, the campaign died out but I remember asking them “what do you want to do?” And they genuinely said “nothing”, I thought I bored them or lost them somewhere but as I got to know the group I DM’d for more I just realized they genuinely had no aspirations entirely it was crazy

[knotty pasture]

You could use that backstory to transition into an existing module if you want

"... our adventurers, after making their escape, went to insert town here where they started their adventure doing this and that"

[craggy cairn]

This is horrible advice. Give them a reason, whether through stakes or personal character motivation

[abstract beacon]

You mean a pre-made campaign?

[knotty pasture]

Yea

I suggest Murder in Baldur's Gate, designed for 5 players around level 1-3 but you can probably just chill with however many players you have atm

[abstract beacon]

Can I at least use a map of my choice or does it have to fit the campaign map?

[knotty pasture]

Ideally it fits the campaign map cuz otherwise it'd make no sense

[ruby patio]

I think it’s bad for beginners, but generally it shouldn’t be the DMs job to make you have a reason to do things, if you have a long time group it shouldn’t be up to them but if they just started then you gotta give them a set up

[buoyant oar]

Your job as the DM is to be the world. Your job as the DM is to put conflict in front of them.

It is the players job to work to be engaged in that conflict.

[old sluice]

In those discussions I am reminded of campaign 1 of Critical Role

[ruby patio]

It also depends on DM to DM like if you are super roleplay heavy then you should take some of the reigns and force it, but if you are playing a more casual dnd game where everyone is an adventurer and just trying to live it works

[buoyant oar]

It is the player's job to create an Adventurer. Someone who wants to participate in the Story the DM has laid out.

[old sluice]

Specifically the moment that went "What are we doing? When we were surviving, I understood. When there were existential threats, I understood. But now we're putting ourselves in danger for what?"

[lyric viper]

Yeah, I don't think it's horrible advice at all, but doable to suggest possible hooks that might work for a campaign.

And like all these discussions, no one advice will fit all games- sandbox to more linear stories, one shots to long campaigns and so on. Some will require proactive 'instigator' players who will make their own goals and motivations, some will need players willing to bite onto a preexisting hook and follow through.

[old sluice]

A great moment in the sense that yeah. Vax as a character had no motivation anymore.

[lyric viper]

Some might be 'You're at the start of the dungeon GO GO GO'

[abstract beacon]

I like paladin cause he’s super easy to roleplay: “Danger? Civilians in harms way ? Great evil lurking about? Of course I’ll fight it .”

[buoyant oar]

Yes. elgate is right. Hooks are important.

A DM is a pool of Gasoline, a player is supposed to light their own match.

[knotty pasture]

Paladins don't have to be always good for the record

They just have to be true to the oath they swore to

[abstract beacon]

I know , but it’s just so much easier to be in character and get engaged unlike an oathbreaker who might just go meh at a public execution of innocents

[knotty pasture]

Oathbreaker is actually the easiest to play imo once you get past justifying the backstory

[old sluice]

And honestly sometimes the easiest way to make sure your character is motivated is to make your character power hungry and restless

[knotty pasture]

You don't need to dance around and argue with the DM over breaking oaths

[lyric viper]

I don't think I've ever once told a player what their PCs motivations would be. I've laid out hooks and suggested possible goals/motivations, but I let the player decide what their PCs motivation is.

Sometimes simply telling them the premise of the campaign is enough. Like 'You'll be escaping the dungeon of Tyrn' or 'You'll be starting in this village (info) and we'll be exploring this rumour (info)'.

[buoyant oar]

Yep. All I tell players is there will be consequences for inaction. That is usually enough

[ruby patio]

Of course the DM in my opinion should step in a bit to light the match of players whenever there is struggle but this is where in my opinion I have the best campaigns because nobody has an overlap of goal for the same reason, everyone is kindling their own flame, and also it makes it feel so human

[knotty pasture]

More importantly, would any PC just constantly ask "why am I on this adventure at all"?

Like you're playing dnd, you come up with your own reason as to why you're continuing this yourself

[buoyant oar]

That is more an above table out of game discussion with the player. Not one to resolve in game with the Character.

[knotty pasture]

Else you'd just walk out of the table because you don't really feel like continuing

[hollow stone]

i know the easiest way to it is that they are working and they have an employer and it is literally their job

[lyric viper]

This reminds me of a time during a campaign where the group stopped and asked 'Wait, why are we dealing with this? Shouldn't we just be handing this over to the guard?'
And the DM went 'Sure, but do you want to play D&D?'

[abstract beacon]

Music to my ears good sir

[ruby patio]

Absolutely but my point is that in the format you also proposed it makes everything more genuine, it adds to the role play, I’m agreeing with you from a different perspective

[knotty pasture]

Yeah like you're doing this for money and adventure and to have a good time with your fellow players irl, no need to think that hard over "god I wish my PC could be in an inn taking a bath right now"

[old sluice]

Although sometimes the PC may say "We have other things to worry about, let the guards handle that" and that's a more complicated position

[hollow stone]

for example, i've brought this up some times, Counterterrorism. the party is part of a CTU and their job is to deal with the terrorists and the job of dealing with the terrorists is theirs and that is why they are doing this at all

[lyric viper]

I mean.. I think 'Wanting a hot bath' is sometimes a good motivation for a PC.

[buoyant oar]

Easy solution. Let the guards handle it and then the guards fail. Now the problem is worse.

[knotty pasture]

I'll mark that down, cuz I just experienced something earlier where a certain NPC had flirted with my Elf PC by saying they smell nice even after not taking a bath for a tenday...

[ruby patio]

In early game this is the best start I like my players to have “I want a house” “I want some food” “I want the bare minimum because I don’t have it” with the genuine self interested route of play we talked about, players are willing to make choices for their survival that will build up to later goals or challenges in the future

[knotty pasture]

I love dnd

[hollow stone]

you can call the terrorists literally anything else and the counterterrorists literally anything else, but the ultimate is the same: there are people with evil intentions and want to make people afraid by breaking things and killing people and your place in this is stop them

[abstract beacon]

I was thinking for the campaign that the players try to weaken the bbegs influence over the island , slowly getting the other races involved that control major land, and as a final battle they launch an assault on the bbegs lair alongside the current belligerents of the kingdom where they can more easily infiltrate in find him and fight him

[knotty pasture]

Anyways my motivation now could just be to take a hot bath so that this NPC would stop complimenting me over my questionable body odor

[buoyant oar]

A good place to look for player self motivation is.....

Dungeons and Dragons: Honor Among Thieves

[ruby patio]

Same, it has brought me through the hardest years of my life

[hollow stone]

nobody else is going to do it because nobody else's job it is to get in their way, but your job it is to be in the way and that is the thing you are going to do or you're fired

[limber oriole]

I mean player motivation can come from anywhere

I’m playing a CoS character who ultimately does not care what he has to do, but he’s getting out of Barovia

[abstract beacon]

For our warlock, her patrons power feels contested by the bbeg, for our beast barbarian of fey origin his natural home is being corrupted etc, those kind of motivations

[abstract beacon]

I named my kingdom Baronia bruh

[ruby patio]

This is also good and it promotes companionship in the party unlike the “I’m starving” prompt, instead of “selfish” actions it’s more heroic in tune, you are abiding by society making connections to improve the wellbeing (it even works the opposite way if you are employed by someone shady or evil)

The hardest thing to do in the beginning is give everyone a reason to become a party if they aren’t already, if you want it to feel natural in my opinion mixing the employer prompt with the “I’m poor” prompt allows for the desire and selfishness to be overcome by the sense of impending responsibility for the best outcome

[buoyant oar]

The stories and motivation of the Main Characters in the DND movie aren't really tied to the main plot of the film. Yet they drive characters through the story.

[knotty pasture]

Yknow, there's a video game dynamic/philosophy that I want to encourage and design when I'm DMing

[ruby patio]

What is it?

[knotty pasture]

The idea is that playing selfishly to the best of your class' abilities and optimizing that gameplay loop would result in the best effects for your team

So being selfish and doing your part transitions into a good team dynamic

[buoyant oar]

Death to min maximg

[ruby patio]

I think being “selfish” to a degree makes the best type of character and relationship among parties

[grim notch]

It can get "tricky" when the only motivation for a player is they've grown to appreciate their character and don't want to make a new one.

[lyric viper]

I actually rather dislike a videogame mentality adjacent to that which is 'It's your moral duty to play optimally'.

But I'm not quite sure whay 'playing selfishly' means here.

[buoyant oar]

I wanna have a 4 in dex. Because it's funny

[ruby patio]

That’s the hard part, it isn’t like you are hoarding all the gold or doing that, it’s a lot more complex I’ll try to explain

[potent solar]

today was the first time for me to play dnd that that blew my marbles

[knotty pasture]

As in doing your own part without going out of your way to assist or combo with someone

[hollow stone]

yea, and from the "government agent of justice" angle, you have the space to make the party realize they are no better than the force they oppose because of who they work for, which has a lot of interesting narrative angles

[lyric viper]

Ah so more 'focus on getting your own thing working smoothly, before helping with someone else's' thing?

[knotty pasture]

Yeah something like that

[ruby patio]

TW: addiction ||Hypothetically, my character takes a drink from a local inns stash, not to directly hurt the party but for my characters own flaw of alcoholism, then when conflict will arise for the nearby guards at the stolen bottle my character would either keep it, return it, these actions may seem to injure the party but if we are trying to roleplay in a co-op game make it for a good reason or better yet have it to be a flaw to overcome than succumb to, now I have a compelling struggling addict who makes a genuine flawed action that will establish character and a relationship quickly, and I didn’t even take the spotlight of a moment I made a simple suboptimal action||

That’s the selfishness that I’m talking about

But that’s for roleplay which I personally enjoy

[abstract beacon]

In our current campaign I’m playing a necron sorcerer that lost his power over the ages and is trying to regain it by any means necessary, I’m helping the party a lot and turning on them doesn’t sit right with me but his goal is to ultimately regain power , therefore if helping the party gets him closer to his goal so be it

[lyric viper]

Hmm, I wouldn't really see this as selfishness, but it is one of those nuanced topics.
But if a player has a PC with a flaw that they play into, even if it's not 'optimal' but makes for an interesting narrative, I think that's great.
Which was why I'm wary of 'optimal play', as sometimes that gamifies and reduces the game too much and ignores the fun of narrative complications.

[ruby patio]

I think “selfish” is too negative about it, but self interested is a better term, now don’t forget to give into others moments like you want them to play into yours, so it’s mutual, don’t make this action then turn on somebody else when they do something that harms the party if minor or major, depending on the moment in the story, you can play realistically but you still want a game to play

[ruby patio]

Check with the DM or if you are willing to foreshadow heavily to the players let them know the kind of choice your character would always make, I had a selfish character who would ALWAYS choose themselves, they never changed, and the players all made very sympathetic characters who kept trying to “fix” them, and in the end he hurt the entire party and changed the course of the game, but let them know subtly, and allow it to be stopped if they pick up, but don’t let go of the throttle if they don’t make you

I had my character kill his own sister because “if I can’t control her, no one can” and they still decided to side with him for a while😭 which when he turned on them they all went, “yeah… should’ve seen that”

Sorry for the yap, but the situation was more complex then just that but obviously foreshadow heavily

[abstract beacon]

Dm said we will be allowed to free for all after the campaign ends so idk

[ruby patio]

Double checking never hurts, maybe they’ll even think it’s really good and give full support

[abstract beacon]

F it I’m winging it from now on we ball

When I’m dm I mean

[minor cargo]

Yeah, I'm also thinking "selfish" is the wrong word - but I can't think of something better. 😅

It does make me think of "knife theory", which is when you give "knives" (emotional levers and plot points/hooks) to other players and DMs and consent to them "stabbing" you with them.

[abstract beacon]

What y’all think about the samurai subclass btw

I’m between that and eldrich knight or even gladiator when I make a fighter

[knotty pasture]

I guess a better example would be like, a Sorcerer grabbing the spell Darkness because they want a way to protect themselves from ranged projectiles

Rather than grabbing it because of their Warlock's Devil's Sight

Self interested may be a better term to describe this situation though

If the Warlock somehow benefits from it, that'd be a nice coincidence, but the Sorcerer's build isn't dependent on Warlock's own as a whole

[rough basalt]

I think it's solid

It gets pretty funny imo if you go dual wielder with the 2024 rules

[nova trellis]

We need more magical civil engineering in settings.

[umbral girder]

7 attacks without action surge or its death mechanic

Wait no

Nah never mind it is 7 attacks, I confused myself

[abstract beacon]

Samurai gets advantage as a bonus action plus temp hit points and at higher levels he gets the extra attack and the last stand mechanic

[rough basalt]

Tho yeah forgot fighting spirit takes a BA

[abstract beacon]

He can do it 3 times per long rest and regains 1 use when rolling for initiative if he’s out

[umbral girder]

Yeah but you are not required to use fighting spirit for advantage

[abstract beacon]

I know

[umbral girder]

It’s just “when you have advantage you can instead get another attack”

[lyric ivy]

My dungeon master's guide arrived a week ago

I'm learning

[abstract beacon]

I own all 3 base books

Same

[umbral girder]

I got most of 5e’s books

[lyric ivy]

I bought them to

Think they're arriving this month

[abstract beacon]

Nice

[glossy otter]

say, does anyone know when the next dnd announcement is for books, we haven't had one in a long time

[lyric viper]

I enjoy trying to think of what magic would be used for instead of technology, and how it'd shape the world.

Playing the game 'Which spell would you pick in real life of each level (barring wish, cus c'mon), if you could only pick one of each' can reveal a lot about what spells are actually useful for daily life.

But anything from using shape water to make iceboxes, or gentle repose to keep food fresh, or eternal lights, so on so forth. Would the rich pay for clones? Would teleportation change trade routes?

In older editions spells like mould/shape spells could greatly reduce the costs of building a place. You could use immovable rods as foundations for floating structures. Magical effects to reduce sound, or even affect emotion could be used.

[rough basalt]

What ones are you missing?

[timid current]

Immovable rods are too valuable for permanent structures but perfect for stable scaffolding

[lyric viper]

I mean, they can take 8000lb, but I guess that's still about 10 to hold the weight of even one house, let alone a fortress. But in 3.5 you needed to throw money at something

Alternatively, figure out how cloud giants make theres. Probably cheaper.

[crimson gulch]

oh i had improvised a explination for that i had a player ask how cloud giants make their flying castles and i had a sage ask, "and they would ask us just as confused how we build on the ground, its their perspective"

[umbral girder]

Wildemount and MTG, Strahd, Stormking, Saltmarsh, and the new Eberron

[rough basalt]

I'm missing mostly adventure books and the new eberron

[umbral girder]

Also citadel!

[stray sage]

how good of a spell is false life?

[crimson gulch]

Nice, i have all the 5e books exept the MTG ones and the Old ebberon book

[rough basalt]

Ravnica is the only old splatbook I'm missing.

[umbral girder]

Good for early levels. Unless you are a warlock

Because then warlocks get it at will so it’s spammable

[crimson gulch]

the invocation for at will full dice false life is really good as a warlock

[limber oriole]

So do a Thor’s hammer on someone and imprison them with a immovable rod

[raw ocean]

If you had to side with a morally good empire that just rejects less liked races, or a morally evil empire that accepts all races, what side would you go with?

[umbral girder]

Well they could just turn off the rod

It’s a button you click on and off after all.

[crimson gulch]

i had someone put soverign glue on the button so no pressy after they put it in place, and i was like, dude you could have just used the glue to seal that door and they were like OH NO i want my rod back

but alas, its still there

[rough basalt]

I'd question why the "good" empire discriminates

[wintry spindle]

Do you peops gravitate more to tragic backstories are non tragic

It's really fun playing the non tragic backstory in my group it's a fun contrast

[shy stirrup]

Ah, The Tragic Backstory™

[raw ocean]

My character enjoying his fully living family that are financially successful while his teammate “Gore the god breaker” tells him about how his entire race was killed 27 times by some random guy

[wintry spindle]

Everyone in the party has daddy issue and then me "I love my dad, he was always supportive"

I tried to make him similar in kindness of pattington

My DM always find it hard letting him not succeed because he roots for him because he is so nice

[umbral girder]

I usually like to have “normal dude”backstories

Unless I start at level 5 or higher

[wintry spindle]

Thats fair

[umbral girder]

Then they are a lot more experienced so I need to compensate

[wintry spindle]

Yeah low lvl start and having a complicated backstory is kinda hard

We often run into the issue with some of the players having long complicated backstories but we run modules so it sometimes hard for our DM to intergrate it

[umbral girder]

“Why are you adventuring?”
“My ex husband got the house in the divorce.”

[wintry spindle]

Our last campaign we had to stop, because one of the players motivation was "to go back home to their home country"

My current PC is a Mercy Monk because he learns medicine to help people because he likes to help people

I wrote him just as a PC that would say yes to any request

very easy to yes and then the adventure

[limber oriole]

I mean tragic backstories are easier to concoct a reason why you’re character is doing something

[fringe comet]

I'm currently playing a level 8 lightning dragonborne sorcerer and I'm currently trying to find some powerful combinations of spells any help

[wintry spindle]

2024 or 2014?

[fringe comet]

2024 edition

[hoary mango]

Is there a campaign posting in this server?

[hollow stone]

i mean i had a character once who had a similar motive, but their objective of returning to their birthplace was to destroy it

[loud tendon]

We have many. Please check out #find-a-game to learn how our looking for channels work

[hollow stone]

it was a very edgy character but i had fun

[wintry spindle]

I would say your best bet is to maybe then upcast your lightning spells like Lightning bolt so you can use Heart of the Storm ability for extra damage

[hoary mango]

Thank you

[wintry spindle]

you can coordinate with your fellow players to line it up better for your spell lightning bolt is tricky with its aoe

[wintry spindle]

I'm not against the motivaiton, but it's hard when you play a module when a PCs motivaiton is to not be in the modules space

[hollow stone]

oh yea that sucks, modules can't really be programmed to fulfill that and still stay on track, since they're usually about a singular place

[wintry spindle]

Yeah unless if the module has a gimmic that makes it so you can't leave the space

But I feel it's easier to write it so your PCs backstory wants to the the main adventure not being forced to do it

But I often experience people have prewritten PCs and then a campaign start they have a hard time adjusting their PC to that campaigns story

[hollow stone]

yea, they need stake in the adventure itself, if your desire is to be somewhere safe that isn't there then you don't have an adventurer, you have a hostage

[crimson gulch]

If a player brings a pc that dosent want to adventure in the game I'm running I tell them to make one that does

[buoyant oar]

Here is how you fix that. Tailor your character to the module you are playing. There is a reason as to why most modules have a lore chapter built into them.

[crimson gulch]

Does not happen very frequently,

[wintry spindle]

I feel the problem is also people get inspired by some homebrew campaigns like critical role and think they can write a charachter like that. But those are homebrew settings where we can actually go visit those places. It's not that easy in a module. But I feel its a good idea talking with your DM "Hey My dad is a bad guy i want revenge" and then the DM can put it in the module somewhere

the problem is suddenly when it's oh yeah my evil dad is from this kingdom outside of this story i wanna go kill him

[buoyant oar]

You can do it within a preset setting super easy. What 90% of players fail to do is tell their DM what they want.

What you don't see on Critical Role are the I assume long conversations between Matt or Brennan and the individual characters where they say what they want for their characters and weave that into the Narrative both at Character Creation and throughout the story.

[wintry spindle]

True. My Dm also has limited time when prepping his sessions so he doesn't have time for too much of our backstory implementation in every session

[buoyant oar]

Oh backstory shouldn't be relevant in every session imo.

Over arching I include it but not every single session

[wintry spindle]

True. I write my pcs more focused how they react to the world presentet not needed their world to be a big part of it

[crimson gulch]

i generally ignore player backstory personally, the journey we all go on together is how we find ourselves and buld bonds with one another.

i had one PC in a game that said "i am going to go to the great library of candlekeep, farewell to all of you"

so i looked at the rest of the party and said "ok so Frederich was never seen again" and looked to the player and said, do you have a backup character that wants to join this adventure?

and he was like wait wait what.

[buoyant oar]

I only don't capitalize on back stories when the narrative takes them to another place like Avernus.

But if their characters is from Elturel? Oh boy oh boy they are in for a bad time.

[unreal rose]

When is someone free to teach me

[wintry spindle]

Yeah. One of the players often use the "but my backstory says im good at x so i should have advantage" And my dm was cold and was like "thats what profecincy is for" it was very funny

[unreal rose]

Can someone teach me to play

[knotty basin]

Yes, their name is “D&D Beyond Basic Rules”

[unreal rose]

How do I make my own character

[buoyant oar]

Here is a guide!
https://www.dndbeyond.com/en/how-to-play-dnd

[unreal rose]

Thanks what about starting a campaign non of my friends play

[wintry spindle]

In person or online?

[unreal rose]

Wait I can play online cool love to play online

[wintry spindle]

If you wanna play with people physically depending on where you are from, there are some choices, like facebook groups and stuff. Online there are different ways like sites like roll20.

[crimson gulch]

best bet to learn is to find a game that accepts newcomers, theres a spot in this server for that https://discord.com/channels/516367331358801950/1070720656917938227

[wintry spindle]

But the questions is also important why do you wanna play dnd? Is it to socialize, to play the game, roleplay etc. Look for games that match those things also

[unreal rose]

So u know any.. love the idea of playing someone I'm not

[knotty basin]

They should probably learn the rules first

[unreal rose]

Will some one on here help me

[buoyant oar]

We are all actively doing that

[crimson gulch]

no i disagree, its a way better expeirence to learn the rules at the table in a welcoming game than to just sit and read them

[buoyant oar]

You take the basic rules and to find a game you head over to #find-a-game and find a thread that looks good to you. And message the Dungeon Master.

I'm a mix of both.

[unreal rose]

My family had a starter kit but none of them could understand not even me

[buoyant oar]

Many players that start just by playing will have so many embedded errors. And will take house rules as gospel. Reading the rules is a very beneficial thing.

[crimson gulch]

Here is a quote from a really old dnd book that is just as helpful today as when it was written
"If you have never played the AD&D
game before, the best way to learn to play
the game is to find a group of experienced
players and join them. They can get you
immediately into the game and explain
things as you need to know them. You don't
need to read anything beforehand. In fact,
it's best if you can play the game for several
hours with experienced players before read-
ing any of the rules. One of the truly mar-
velous things about a role-playing game is
that even though the concept is difficult to
explain, it is simple to demonstrate."

i had a players hadnbook for 20 years before i actualy got to play because i did not take the plunge and find a game

[buoyant oar]

I don't devalue playing first but holy crap the number of players I have had that had years of experience and never read the book was astronomical.

[wintry spindle]

My DM never read the DMG haha. But I read the books a lot but I like understanding mechanics

But when i started I tried my best to learn the basics and ask the dm questions

AC was very confusing to me when i started

[buoyant oar]

The 2014 DMG was so bad partially because it advocates learning by osmosis. Explicitly stating the Dungeon Master's Guide wasn't a guide to being a dungeon master.

[wintry spindle]

yeah the 2024 dmg is nice

2014 I just use it for a rule here and there like moving diagonally

[buoyant oar]

A table is a great way to learn. It should be supplemental to reading. Not in place of.

[wintry spindle]

Im experiencing a problem some of my fellow players are using AI to learn rules but sometimes it hallucinates and give fake facts

[crimson gulch]

i still have loads of folks that havent read the players handbook and they are great players in my game that show up and engage with the game fully,

[crimson gulch]

oooooh this is a super bad sign, thats the opposite of learning the game

[unreal rose]

My a charitor using an online things
I named him callum the grate Fighter 1 (0 XP)
Half-elf (m), Neutral
Pirate
[ ABILITY SCORES ]
Str 11 (+0) Dex 10 (+0) Con 10 (+0) Int 11 (+0) Wis 10 (+0) Cha 12 (+1)
[ PROFICIENCIES ]
Proficiency Bonus +2
Saves Str +2, Con +2
Skills Acrobatics +2, Animal Handling +2, Athletics +2, Perception +2, Survival +2 (passive Perception 12)
Weapons simple weapons, martial weapons
Armors all armor, shields,
Tools navigator's tools, vehicles (water)
Languages Common, Elvish, Goblin
[ COMBAT ]
hp 10 ; HD 1d10
Init +0 ; Speed 30 ft.
AC 14 (studded leather 12, shield +2, Dex +0)
Longsword. Melee : +2 (1d8 slashing ; versatile (1d10))
Pike. Melee : +2 (1d10 piercing ; heavy, reach, two-handed)
Handaxe. Melee : +2 (1d6 slashing ; light, thrown (range 20/60))
Longbow. Ranged : +2 (1d8 piercing ; ammunition (range 150/600), heavy, two-handed)
[ SPELLS ]
[ FEATURES & TRAITS ]
Second Wind (1d10+1 hp/rest)
Fighting Style (Great Weapon Fighting)
Darkvision (60 ft.)
Fey Ancestry
Skill Versatility *
Bad Reputation
[ EQUIPMENT ]
Longsword, pike, handaxe (2), longbow, studded leather, shield, thieves' tools, 20 arrows, backpack, bedroll, mess kit, tinderbox, torch (10), rations/1 day (10), waterskin, rope/hempen 50 feet, rope/silk 50 feet, clothes/common, belaying pin, lucky charm, belt pouch
Equipment weight 112 lb - Cost 191.5 gp
10 gp
Coins weight 0.1 lb
[ CHARACTER ]
Height Medium / 5.8 ft / 150 lb. ; Age 20 years (apparent age 20)
Eyes Blue ; Skin White ; Hair Dark blond
Appearance Cute

Personality traits Kind and loyalty
Ideals
Bonds With dogs easy
Flaws To quick to trust

Background Pirate
Character Backstory Lives with humans after his father died fighting to stave humans
Allies & Organizations

What u think

[buoyant oar]

Just because players exist who do well without reading the rules doesn't mean we should advocate not needing to read the rules.

[tidal bough]

I highkey hate that ai is an issue in games now

[wintry spindle]

Also it's important as you say understanding house rules and RAW

crit skill checks is something i always feels need to understood is not Raw

[unreal rose]

Mag do u have a campaign

[buoyant oar]

You need to go to #find-a-game

[crimson gulch]

i do advocate for that as i believe that teaching the game is one of the most important parts of running the game, and no amount of reading ahead is going to prepaper folks better than just jumping in and playing

[tidal bough]

This is factually incorrect

[wintry spindle]

I don't feel it's the DMS responsibility to explain all the rules to new players

[crimson gulch]

its like that quote from avatar, someone who has an empty cup is easier to fill

[timid current]

Some people just don't understand that collaborative storytelling is an inherently creative endeavor, and using LLM/generative ai id an inherently anti-creative methodology

[tidal bough]

Thats like me asking you to make a nuclear reactor and saying "dont study, its better if you figure it out yourself"

[wintry spindle]

they can help but its a colaborative game so it's important to also learn the mechanics yourself especially with your class

[crimson gulch]

this is a game, not nuclear physics

[buoyant oar]

And empty cup is easier to fill. For me. The basic rules and concepts are the cup. Not the fill

[unreal rose]

I tried to find one the thing would not work

[tidal bough]

This is an example not a literal translation

[timid current]

Roll math rocks have fun tell stories

[unreal rose]

?

[crimson gulch]

i 100% think it is as you as the DM are the one running the game and enforcing the rules and presenting them

[wintry spindle]

I diasgree you should state the rules you don't play with but not explain the rules fully

[crimson gulch]

i explain rules fully when needed as we go along

[unreal rose]

Who on here has a campaign I can join

[wintry spindle]

you can help understand the rules as a nice player but a DM has a lot on their plates already. Players can help by learning the basics

[tidal bough]

There should be a base understanding everyone has for the game especially when the rules are free to read and the only thing the dm has the responsibility of doing is explaining what changes to the base rules have been made

[wintry spindle]

Especially when it comes to mechanics like your class, species etc

[tidal bough]

No one here, go to #find-a-game and #looking-for-players

[crimson gulch]

100% disagree, i dont make changes to the base game, i explain and teach the RAW game as we go

[unreal rose]

Find a game looking for player didn't work for me

[steel sentinel]

is there a place to discuss character builds?

[tawdry sentinel]

You can teach DND to someone without them knowing what they're doing and it's fine tbh.

It's when it's 3 or 4 sessions in you'd hope they know what's going on.

This is why level 1 characters can't really do anything.

If you're brand new and joining a campaign that starts at level 4 or whatever that's a different problem.

[tidal bough]

Good for you, you dont speak for everyone, you speak for yourself

[crimson gulch]

correct, and i am speaking as a professional dm that is currently running 8 campaigns, i have a lot on my plate, and teaching the game is the main course so we all can enjoy it.

[tidal bough]

Im happy to teach a new player but you have to meet me halfway and atleast be interested enough to learn the basics

[crimson gulch]

i break down that barrier so more folks can enjoy this great game

[tidal bough]

Im not piggy backing you to being interested in a hobby, but im happy to be accommodating

[buoyant oar]

#optimization

Or #dnd-rules

[unreal rose]

I had a look and put a request in

[tidal bough]

Or #character-discussion if you just want to discuss without optimizing

[buoyant oar]

I think a DM should be knowledgeable about the rules and help new players. But it's the player's responsibility to know how their characters operate.

[wintry spindle]

Especially with combo builds

[tidal bough]

Especially if the dm is running the world and the monsters

[buoyant oar]

I am more patient with new players. Of course. But after a few sessions. It's up to you to know how your Bladesinger bladesings

[wintry spindle]

I have a berserker aasimar who has a crazy combo, Im trusting them they know how it works

I ask questions when something seems off

But often that comes from experience that i can spot something is wrong

[buoyant oar]

Yeah. With monks I am usually like. "alright Imma start asking for explanations after the fifth attack."

[wintry spindle]

My dm did that to me when i hit lvl 5 lol

[craggy cairn]

Monks get crazy

[wintry spindle]

"You attack again"

[unreal rose]

So no one on here can help

[wintry spindle]

Monks are fun

[unreal rose]

What about half elf

[buoyant oar]

We have helped. You aren't accepting the help. Finding a group or game is not immediate it takes time, days and weeks most of the time.

[wintry spindle]

I'm not a elf player

[unreal rose]

Ok thanks you 🙂🙂

[craggy cairn]

I’ve had one Dragonborn for years on end with a series of different builds

[wintry spindle]

I'm playing a half orc atm. Just because I thought it would be a fun clash with a mercy monk

[violet basin]

looks at all the fun stuff that is STAFF OF POWER and ROBES OF THE ARCHAMGI!

looks at Cleric. cries.

[buoyant oar]

I tell players to read all spells allowed when cast as a way to trick them into reading the rules lmao. /s

[wintry spindle]

Lol

[unreal rose]

Lord kas thanks

[buoyant oar]

Nw

[wintry spindle]

I have a oneshot for some of my friends the 21st i told the cleric "hey just read the spells for the prepared spells you arent gonna have a long rest"

Just to save them time

[buoyant oar]

I had a player ask me how Shadows of Moil worked. And I said "I dunno what does the spell say?"

[crimson gulch]

Only ever had a long rest once in a one shot, out of about 80

[buoyant oar]

9/10 they have yet to actually read the spell.

[wintry spindle]

We had some long rests in a previous oneshot but it was at spa hotel so it was part of the story haha

But usually we don't long rest at oneshots

I also tell them "don't save your items"

[tawdry sentinel]

I tend to want a new spell read out anyway. There's one guy who buys basically every book available on Beyond and then shares it.

So we end up with a lot of "I'm casting Gaze of Eueifjtjrikwkfntori can he make a con save"

[wintry spindle]

I'm kinda sad my dnd books are delayed until next month again

[timid current]

Sometimes all you can do is wait

[buoyant oar]

Someday. WotC will actually talk about what is coming next year.

[wintry spindle]

I hope a module of some kind

dragon delves is nice and all but I kinda want like a more standard campaign

[buoyant oar]

Been a hot minute since there has been a campaign hardback. Not that those are my favorite anyway.

[wintry spindle]

Would also be nice just some material so they can update some of the pre 2024 subclasses

I know they did a lot for heroes of faerun

But there are still some classes I am missing. Ofc you can just use the old ones, but it's nice having the updates

[buoyant oar]

I am good with no more updates. If the edition is all one edition I don't want refreshes and reprints from the same edition unless it's one Greatest Hits book like Multiverse.

[wintry spindle]

that would be nice

[buoyant oar]

But piece meal updates ain't it for me.

[proper skiff]

Does the dodge action mean the enemy rolls with disadvantadge against you and if that hits you then roll a dex saving throw with advantadge to dodge it?

[harsh hinge]

Just the disadvantage.

[tawdry sentinel]

Dodge is deceptively strong as an action in my experience.

[clear lark]

Not really deceptive, having disadvantage to hit is problematic

[remote wadi]

I have a question out of curiosity

What is the normal maximum for levels? I know most campaigns stop before level 20, but where exactly is the most common stopping point?

[crimson gulch]

impossible to say, as the vast majority of campaigns dont report data anywhere, but i do have some personal numbers

[valid geyser]

I think I heard the average floating around 11

[crimson gulch]

i have brougt 4 campaigns to level 20 and on average my other games end at about 13

[valid geyser]

But even then, I feel like that doesn’t consider campaigns that get canceled early.

[clear lark]

I was hearing 12th level on many websites a couple of years back

[remote wadi]

Asking this because I was going to plan out what exactly is the best direction to take for future characters

I.e. how much levels to split between a Fighter/Barb

[crimson gulch]

24 campaigns total, One cancelled after 4 sessions 7 ongoing, 13 brought to a successful conclusion

the best choice overall is not to multiclass

[keen hemlock]

Afternoon

[remote wadi]

Afternoon. Funny bio tbh

[keen hemlock]

I completely forgot about that

I put it there as a bit like 2 days ago I thought I removed it 😭

[remote wadi]

Mmm, it depends from what I see. There are some good combinations that I can see multiclass being at the very least fun and very slightly suboptimal

[crimson gulch]

to many dead levels where folks fall behind, and in most games you may never get the pay off of that build you are planning

[keen hemlock]

What if the multiclass is REALLY GOOD tho

[crimson gulch]

even the best multiclasses fall behind, it was darn painfull watching the hexadin not get extra attack till level 9

[keen hemlock]

I main paladin cleric for 3 out of the 5 sessions I've ever played

1/2 of the non P/C sessions was Oathbreaker Paladin i really like paladin

[remote wadi]

The same could be said for many characters who didn't finish their arc

Death is unfortunately somewhat common, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't multiclass to really lean into the role for your team

[crimson gulch]

no its different, because a pure wizard that hit level 5 would have gotten their level 3 spells, but a level 1 cleric level 4 wizard that dippped for armor is allways going to be behind, any PC can die at any point so thats not really a point for this, if everything goes according to plan a multiclass claricter will be behind on so much core progression

[remote wadi]

The current campaign has me as a Ranger. Problem is, why should I heavily invest in spellcasting when we have a wizard, bard, cleric, and paladin capable of spellcasting? (Our party has been 5+ so far)

[crimson gulch]

rangers are not heavily invested into spellcasting

[keen hemlock]

Every single time I play i usually just go for support and I tried minmaxing for once and one of my irl friends called me a coward

Im tryna do a ranger rouge whos heavy into crossbow ranged damage and also poison damage with a poisoners kit i got the okay to start with

[remote wadi]

I said why should I invest more into it

Especially because I can take 5 levels in Ranger and 6 into Fighter to up my long range Piercing damage by a big chunk

[crimson gulch]

then you really did not portray that well, investing into ranger is not about spellcasting theres so much more to the class, than their spells, they get features all the time.

i 100% would prefer full ranger or full fighter over a multiclass of the two, espeicaly now with the epic boon feats

the level 14 swarmkeeper ranger in my one game loves that nothing can break her concentration on hunters mark now

[remote wadi]

I'm sorry, I keep forgetting I have to explain my current campaign for the context of why I'm doing what I'm doing

[keen hemlock]

Im ngl full ranger is definitely not it

Ranger is absolutely garbage past level 5 it gets power creeped HARD

[crimson gulch]

Rangers slay all the way to the top, have you played much past level 5?

[remote wadi]

1. Our campaign is a max level of 11
2. In addition to 4 spellcasters in our party, with 3 showing up consistently, we also have a Fighter and Rogue. Meaning long range piercing damage is a great way to contribute

[keen hemlock]

Don't plug here mate I dont think that's allowed (I think)

[thorn garnet]

How we doing chat

[keen hemlock]

Considering changing my build cuz my hb bullied me

[remote wadi]

#looking-for-players

[keen hemlock]

I got a decent thing going on rn so nah, thanks for the offer tho mate

[thorn garnet]

What why 😭

[still plover]

Pop a post up in #looking-for-players . #find-a-game has all the details.

[crimson gulch]

we have channels for LFG, best to check those out

[clear lark]

Hm. A Ranger is still a Fighter type of class, so they can use the same weapons as a fighter and come close to doing as much damage if you include the Hunter's Mark.

[woven flint]

I've finally made a character I've been trying to play for ages

I can ascend now!

[remote wadi]

Level 11 maximum, so epic boons are off the table
And our team composition means that it's best to keep spellcasting open, but to a minimum, and focus more on steady piercing damage

Hence my decision to have my levels be 5 Ranger, 6 Fighter

[winged sand]

How do you join DM

[keen hemlock]

Gloom stalker ranger rouge whos ranged poison damage and absurdly fast and he called me a coward and said I would mess over the whole team playing it

[woven flint]

That's definitely a take

[keen hemlock]

(Would it be self promo to link the Google doc i did the sheet on here or can I do that without issue)

[crimson gulch]

yeah not in general

[keen hemlock]

Cuz if hes correct i wanna get criticism so I could change it

[woven flint]

Ranger isn't BAD

it's just boring.
And people often associate it being boring with being bad
(At least from what I've seen)
It's a decent class that doesn't have much substance.

[crimson gulch]

homebrew, dm discussion or worldbuilding

[keen hemlock]

#fairs

[thorn garnet]

Me personally, I’m going for circle of spores Druid (swarmfly?)ranger
Only cuz I like the idea of giving everyone the plague
And I like Warhammer 40k deathguard

[woven flint]

#looking-for-players

[keen hemlock]

Alot of people asking for games in this channel huh

[remote wadi]

So my plan was to keep 5 levels in Ranger to get the Extra Attack, then keep leveling up Fighter to get the benefits of AS, SW, sub class Champion, and 2 ASIs

[keen hemlock]

I've been meaning to peep 40k but those minis are PRICEY

[woven flint]

Not often, its strange that it's happened this many times today

[keen hemlock]

The tau seem super cool and so do the Orks as a green creature enjoyer i really like the 40k take from what I've seen

[thorn garnet]

Yea the only way is to either have dough or know someone who has spares

[woven flint]

Swarmkeeper Ranger Spores Druid combo, hmm?

Interesting, may your plague be set upon your foes!

[keen hemlock]

I see why all the dnd uncs hate on homebrew Im fresh off like a bunch of homebrew heavy games so im ready for this next one to be nice and relaxed normal dnd fun

[thorn garnet]

May I spread the grandfathers blessings and restore order

through disease!!

[dapper cloud]

Playing a rogue with a teleporting sword, and have just realised Steady Aim drops your speed to 0, but doesn’t stop you from teleporting.

I’m Noctis from FFXV now.

[keen hemlock]

Only homebrew thing im doing for this ranger rouge dude is his race which is a balanced ratfolk thing i found online the dm gave the okay too

[woven flint]

Kind of the inverse of the fellow I'm working on.

I'm making a Yuan-Ti Alchemist fellow who wants to create a cure-all, but mostly to satisfy his ego and not really out of the kindness in his heart

[thorn garnet]

So uhh I play as lawful evil so imagine how many people I either give the most deadly plague or the common cold

[woven flint]

"That cure that saved your family? I did that. You're welcome."

[thorn garnet]

Ooo

[thorn garnet]

I like the idea of I get to spread diseases

[woven flint]

He's gonna be an Ass.
And I already love him.

"Without my potion making skills, I'd bet the lot of you would already be under, praise me!"

[thorn garnet]

Someone who helped me fill out the character sheet basically told me I get to spread super aids

[woven flint]

Lmao

[buoyant oar]

Hmm

Not a fan of that phrasing.

[thorn garnet]

Oh?

[clear lark]

Oh I completely overlooked that because it was in small caps

[woven flint]

We need more egotistical healer types

Gone are the days of "I'll heal you just because I'm nice!"

Now come the days of
"I'll heal you because you'd be an absolute MESS without me."

[remote wadi]

For subclasses, do the benefits unlocked from levels come from your total level or your level for that class?

[woven flint]

Levels in that class

[tawdry sentinel]

You'll pay the shopkeep 50 gold for that healing potion, what are you offering me?

[thorn garnet]

Ze healing iz more rewarding as ze hurting

[woven flint]

"Of course I'll heal you... I just want you to beg first!"

[clear lark]

I didn't realize D&D had it's own version of Pinhead in the MM.

[tawdry sentinel]

I can't get over the Hezrou being a giant frog demon stood on a pile of spaghetti

[woven flint]

Best part is
My Alchemist has the Mark of Healing Dragonmark in this campaign, so he gets plenty of Healing spells, so plenty of opportunities to boast about how great he is for Healing a sorrowful creature such as yourself!

[eternal summit]

💀

@raw ocean

[woven flint]

I do plan on character development for him, of course..
Maybe

[raw ocean]

Yes?

[eternal summit]

🗣️

[snow agate]

What

[knotty basin]

I want to make a ranger so bad, but they’re just. So. Boring.

[snow agate]

Ok then don’t problem solved

[raw ocean]

Fighter Gunslinger?

[thorn garnet]

Just do multi class or some

Idk a lot of dnd

[remote wadi]

Speak for yourself. The Battle Medic Insitution teaches the duality of healers as the fundamentals: your role as a support can take the form of making sure no one dies by keeping them all healthy OR by obliterating any and all threats to the team

[vast pelican]

I'm a little confused: if they bore you, why do you want to make one?

[knotty basin]

They sound cool conceptually

They don’t really have any mechanics other than awkward fighter/druid combo

[woven flint]

He could care less!

[snow agate]

Ok then don’t

[snow agate]

Just play an mmo

[vast pelican]

Enjoying exploration as a ranger is pretty dependent on having a GM that knows how to and wants to run exploration.

[remote wadi]

I wouldn't call them awkward tbh. I for one would love to fill enemies full of arrows/lead

[woven flint]

Rangers don't always have to fight at Range

[sleek cloud]

Dual wielding melee rangers are great these days

[woven flint]

Getting close and personal is fun too!
STRNGER 'til the end

[hard crystal]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/1piing1/im_playing_a_character_with_a_separate_body_give/

[snow agate]

Man if only you posted a link with any context at all

[clear lark]

Dual Wielding is okay, if you have no other bonus actions

[tawdry sentinel]

The duel melee ranger into water druid shillelagh thing that Treatmonk put out is pretty good and the person playing it likes it.

[sleek cloud]

Don’t think we should be posting links my guy

[vast pelican]

I tried to build a STRanger for my current game but I just couldn't figure how to make it work. 2024 makes it even less optimal.

[crimson gulch]

dual weilding slays so hard in the 2024 rules

[woven flint]

Nick weapons: Exist

[sleek cloud]

Exactly

[snow agate]

You basically build it like a barbarian where you take 14 dex and max STR

[remote wadi]

My character is more or less a marksman. Eventually, he will have Sharpshooter, Piercer, Action Surge, Gunner, Alert, Lucky, and both subclasses of Champion and Gloomstalker

[woven flint]

Do the fun combo of Shortsword and Nick weapon

[hard crystal]

I'm a novice at the game, and for the first time I made a character that isnt just class + race and made something somewhat original, I was proud of it and asked for suggestion to make it more fun and real

[vast pelican]

Better for me to just make a fighter and choose ranger-y skills.

[hard crystal]

ppl started downvoting

[thorn garnet]

My character is just…rot

[tawdry sentinel]

Ranger is way better out of combat. Depends on the type of game you're in.

[woven flint]

I don't like Fighters or Rangers all that much
Paladins? Barbarians? Monks?
Sign me up 😩

[fluid maple]

Hello

[vast pelican]

2024 took away most of the non-combat ranger stuff

[snow agate]

Being an extremely weak isekai protag child robot drone is actually not cool and not suitable for adventuring or most tables

[vast pelican]

Replaced it with damage, mostly for ranged builds

[tawdry sentinel]

Has magic, solves all of life's problems.

[sleek cloud]

Pass without Trace my beloved

[remote wadi]

Barb, Fighter, Cleric, and Warlock are more my fancy. But Ranger can make for some long range damage with a sniper build, and I can't deny getting a little eager to see how much damage I can churn out with some abilities and good luck at my max level (11)

[hard crystal]

not necessarily weak, my character would have some balanced stats

[vast pelican]

The ranger spell list is kinda awful

[woven flint]

Agreeable

[fluid maple]

Are y'all doing a campaign right now

[hard crystal]

why isekai btw?

[snow agate]

You literally said it’s a kid in his home controlling a person with remote controls

[remote wadi]

Oh, wait... it says ARE surprised, not aren't. My bad

[hard crystal]

basically yeah but what does that have to do with isekai. not really remote countrols, its basically a shared consciousness but the child's mind has priority over the other one, hence the delay

[snow agate]

Smh

[hard crystal]

I wanted to try something cool for once, like all those posts I saw about ppl doing crazy stuff with their characters

my dm was ecstatic about this too

[snow agate]

Ok then why are you asking for our opinions

[hard crystal]

mostly cause we are not the best dnd players and we are pretty much all novices, so he was happy to see one of us taking initiative

[hard crystal]

cause I was asking some ways to make this fun, cause I'm not experienced in the game, and because I thought you all would like that I actually took initiative :(

[snow agate]

As a player I would not actually like the child shared conscious pc with delayed reactions and no spatial awareness, I’d really just like a competent adventurer to do heroics with

Sorry

[vast pelican]

If the table likes it, I don't see the value in saying "that's not how you are supposed to do D&D characters".

[snow agate]

He asked for an opinion

[hard crystal]

I was hoping for these opinions to be positive, but I gladly take the criticism to know that when I change group I shouldnt pull out something like this

[vast pelican]

On how to improve the character that already exists, not on what kind of character you prefer to play.

[snow agate]

Also the kind of character I prefer to be in a party with

Anyway it is what it is ur group likes it so have fun

[hard crystal]

what can I say man fair enough lol, I was just happy for once to think outside of the box, I hope I didnt bother you and I wish you a good day

[tawdry sentinel]

Depends on the game you're playing as to what's useful really.

Climb speed and swim speed are great.

Rangers damage is dog water after a certain level. That's unavoidable.

Pass without trace is always good. You get a bunch of good utility spells, fog cloud, jump, talking to plants or animals etc. etc.

It's like illusion magic, needs the DM buy in. Then it's good. Shoot your monks and all that jazz.

[vast pelican]

I'm intimately familiar with the illusionist dilemma. 🪦

[hard crystal]

me and the dm and another guy are basically the only ones that actually put effort into the game instead of trying to do nonsensical stuff so they won't mind I'm sure

[lyric idol]

Thats so unfortunate ;-;

[sleek cloud]

So here’s my take.

1. Many groups would be hesitant to play with a child character so that should be discussed with a dm and group beforehand
2. Having a character be at home and just projecting into a body feels very low stakes such that if that body dies, that it’s of no real consequence to the character, it’d just be a lost signal. And that doesn’t make for great storytelling.
3. the whole signal delay aspect of it causing a self imposed character combat nerf is a hindrance most other characters aren’t likely to accept. People in a group tend to want everyone to at least pull their own weight and help enough. It is a collaborative game after all.

That’s with next to no knowledge of the one piece campaign yall are doing but those statements are universally applied

[hard crystal]

the idea is that if the projected character dies, the game is over for me cause I cant project anymore and I cant just leave my house as a child lol. also they shouldnt know about me being a child, that is part of the roleplay, I would like them to discuss and find that out on their own. my DM was on board with this. for the third point that is fair, which is why we were also discussing about some buffs to give my character, the other aspect is that since this power comes from a devil fruit, if I were to "awaken" this fruit (one piece concept) we were thinking of some ideas, like swapping race at will to gain specific bonuses, but these races have to be limited to my character's knowledge of it: such as, if I dont know that that race can do that, then my projection wont be able to do that. this will also be really late game, so it shouldnt be such a problem. another thing would be that in the one piece world you can only eat one fruit, but I have one, though my original body has it, so maybe if my character were to eat another one (by will or forced), I'd have to roll a die to either explode (one piece lore) or separate my consciousness and play as the projection, but now free, or even keep both

so it could hypotetically be a nerf at the beginning that could turn into something stronger further on, or we could balance it earlier

also obtaining observation haki (that is future sight) would negate my delay

[hard crystal]

we are all novices and we have all watched one piece, I have no idea what my dm has in mind but he said he loved my idea and that he will plan something for that. I know it might not turn out well, but like we are all not that great at the game, we are mostly looking to learn, I am honestly proud to do something out of the box, as long as most people are fine with it. since my dm, me and another guy are the only ones who take the game seriously, two of the other playes will be total beginners, and one of them really doesnt care about the game tbh, I think it will do just fine

only three of us care about the game, which is why I did think in the past to look for another group, but these are all my current classmates (we're 18-19) and it would feel like betrayal

maybe the two total beginners will actually enjoy the game who knows

we were thinking of starting a real campaign in a month or so, but only w those who are serious about this, cause really it is annoying when they do anything but play

[sleek cloud]

Well, with all that, it’s a bit more understandable. My question now is how much of it is going to be homebrew and how much is actual rules

[hard crystal]

the rules should be all the same except races and classes

spells wont be there ig?

they will likely get replaced by devil fruits or such

[sleek cloud]

Hard to call it a dnd game at that point

[hard crystal]

it would be hard to make classes and races of dnd make sense in this world

[potent siren]

With something so heavily homebrew, I'd just say to stick with your ideas and collaborate with your dm so that your both on board

[hard crystal]

aight, we are definitely working on it

hes currently working on classes and races

what I'm mostly scared of is how he is going to make it interesting

[glass granite]

That’s also partially the players responsibility too btw

[hard crystal]

just because he would have to take real events and fictional events, real characters and fictional characters, real locations and fictional locations

[potent siren]

You could try to Google some sort of fan-made one piece flavored homebrew stuff to take inspiration from if that helps

[glass granite]

Getting into character and engaging with the story keeps the game interesting

[hard crystal]

no definitely and I get it, it is just the first time we do something out of the dnd universe, so thats why I'm scaared

[glass granite]

Hi scared I’m Nugget

[tawdry sentinel]

There's presumably a one piece ttrpg

[hard crystal]

it will be either fun as hell or complete dogshit, probably the second one lol

[potent siren]

You could try to find a one piece game system as well yeah, instead of dnd

[hard crystal]

I feel like we dont want to commit to a whole new system for a single session / small campaign when we are planning for a serious dnd campaign already

[sleek cloud]

yeah, just make sure those new players know that it’s extremely loosely D&D at that point and that should they want to try actual DnD with the species and classes and rules they’ll essentially have a lot to relearn

[glass granite]

My issue with this is primarily the fact that this’ll be the new players’ first experience of dnd gameplay

[sleek cloud]

That’s what my concern is too, that’s why they need to know

[hard crystal]

I tried to make one of them at least watch a video of how the game works or something, I would love to teach them, and on friday I'll call them and help them make their character, but I dont think everyone wants to spend hours and hours explaining stuff that they would know if they spent like 10 minutes having at least a general overview of the game

I'm not even sure they care that much

again, only three of us actually care about the game

one of them explicitly said that he will try to make funny stuff

I'm really just hoping that he finds this fun enough to stick around and play for real

[hard crystal]

they prolly wont play again anyway

or they will but uncaringly like the others

is uncaringly a word?

[glass granite]

Well, if they’re willing to try it, they might be willing to commit to it

[hard crystal]

I really hope they find this fun enough to commit to a serious game

[glass granite]

I think?

[toxic locust]

Looking for a dnd session to join is therer any free spot? Where can I look guys?

[glass granite]

I hope so too, because with this much homebrew it’s quite hit or miss

[lyric idol]

#looking-for-players

[glass granite]

Have you checked out #find-a-game (has all the info you need)

[hard crystal]

thank you for having at least hope in us lol :)

when I go to college I will definitely find a new group but hopefully I will still be able to do some w them on discord or something

[sleek cloud]

Best of luck

[balmy heron]

I hate how Stranger things changed every monster.

[primal oasis]

Trying to figure out what to do with an elf of mine

Wood elf, slightly druidic, but mostly a Grave Cleric of Kelemvor

He's been stuck in a dystopian cyberpunk-esque city the size of a continent

For like, a thousand years

No nature

I'm wondering what to do with him once he gets out

I'm thinking of him renouncing Kelemvor

[ember rose]

So... Forge of the Artificer in D&D Beyond when? 👀

[sleek cloud]

It already is

[primal oasis]

To go into a split between Oathrbeaker Paladin and some sort of Druid

Idk what Druid subclass to give him though

[ember rose]

I'm not seeing it. 👀

[primal oasis]

Thoughts?

[idle oar]

?tag ddb entitlements

[cosmic roost]

Account Entitlements

Account entitlements are how D&D Beyond identifies which content you can access. These are synced automatically in time, but if you're not seeing content you should have access to, visit Account > Licenses.

The Account Entitlements section at the top should ideally say "Your entitlements data is in sync!" If not, it will show a button to manually trigger the sync, after which your content should be available.

[glass granite]

I’m unsure how oathbreaker fits too well, but I like spores Druid

[sleek cloud]

Maybe some day I’ll make a droid

[cerulean monolith]

Beep boop?

[sleek cloud]

I refuse to correct that

[primal oasis]

He's ditching Kelemvor and I want that to play into it a little

[sleek cloud]

Perhaps a droid druid

[glass granite]

I’ve made a warforged Druid

[glass granite]

Is he doing it for evil tho?

[primal oasis]

In Kelemvor's eyes, kinda

[glass granite]

In his eyes

[primal oasis]

In the city, my elf made friends with some undead. Kelemvor wants me to kill em and I'm not gonna

[ember rose]

My data is in sync. I'm still not seeing it. 🤷‍♂️

[glass granite]

Oaths are almost completely dependent on your views and ideas

Not the will of a god

[cerulean monolith]

FotA went live for everybody today iirc

[idle oar]

And you own the content? And can you see it here? https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/efota

[ember rose]

I don't own it, I wish to purchase it through D&D Beyond.

[sleek cloud]

It’s on the website so you can do that

[idle oar]

Yeah you can purchase it here: https://marketplace.dndbeyond.com/category/5147000
Select which product you want (Ultimate Bundle, Digital, or Physical)

[ember rose]

Cheers! 👍❤️

[sleek cloud]

Time to struggle with abjuration wizard build decisions again

[keen valve]

Maybe you should should focus on defense and protection?

And throwing things. Wizards should throw more things. It's scary and throws off your enemies.

"Look at this old man, I'm gonna do him in- why is he lifting that barrel above his head?"

[turbid vessel]

goliath wizard was one of my favorite characters for that reason

when i ran out of spell slots i picked up the werewolf and threw it into the fire

[meager fractal]

Do you think this Swashbuckler Rogue 3/Battlemaster Fighter 5 I'm planning in a one shot tonight is viable?

[knotty basin]

It’s almost impossible to make an unviable character

Unless you do something like multiclass to level 1 in everything, for example

[glass granite]

Agree to disagree there
Doing your stats wrong can already make a character unviable

[knotty basin]

Sorry, let me rephrase. It’s almost impossible to make an unviable character if you know the rules of the game and aren’t trying to

[turbid vessel]

"viability" is kinda a table-to-table metric anyway

[clear lark]

Viable for what? If you are going to mix and match, there should be a purpose besides a one shot.

[keen valve]

I prefer having a werewolf ally on standby to throw at enemies instead. If they were a shifter you should've tried becoming homies.

[meager fractal]

I'm not entirely sure about the party composition yet. Just want a melee combatant that can slot in well with any party, but maybe one that already has a tank? I heard one of the other players boasting about that already.

[tawdry sentinel]

Giving up 2 feats for whatever you want from rogue.

[remote wadi]

So... is 2014 Ranger's middle levels (6-11) really that impressive?

[lyric idol]

It should be on there since the 5th though if you preordered you had access since the 25th of november.

[lyric idol]

No.

[remote wadi]

Because some people are telling me not to multiclass my Ranger into a Fighter

But the high spellcasting amount on my team with the low max level (11) feels like it says otherwise

[ember rose]

Wait, let me rephrase that.
I'm not seeing it in the D&D Beyond app. Kind ppl gave me the link the the website, though. 😁

[lyric idol]

Ranger in general never gets as many spells as other spell casters. Comparing Ranger to Druid or Cleric when Ranger is a half caster isn't really fair to ranger. Though Ranger + Fighter multiclass is a really good multiclass.

[remote wadi]

The spellcasting was going to be kept to a minimum anyways because we have a Wizard, Bard, Paladin, and (hopefully) a cleric

[lyric idol]

Yeah in that case a multiclass into fighter would definitely be a good choice. Sticking with Ranger is fine too, but fighter would give you more to do without casting spells. Extra attacks, bonuses, and depending on what subclass you choose theres a lot of reasons to choose fighter to multiclass.

[knotty basin]

I wish there was more martial classes

[meager fractal]

It does feel like there is one too few martial classes tbh. Hell if I know what's missing though

[lyric idol]

Archer could be one. A whole class dedicated to bows seems fun.

[remote wadi]

A summary of my current plan
5 levels in Ranger, sub class Gloomstalker
6 levels in Fighter, subclass Champion
Feats is just Sharpshooter for now, but will be Piercer, Gunner, Alert, and Lucky

[remote wadi]

Seems too linear. Couldn't you just have a Rogue for that?

[knotty basin]

Fair

[turbid vessel]

something like commander from pathfinder would be interesting, a non-magic support class

[keen hemlock]

I heart action surge

[lyric idol]

If you want something that really shines you can try battlemaster fighter too,

[craggy summit]

There are some classes/subclasses I'd label archers. Rogue is one, I'd say battle master fighter if you make a build for it

[knotty basin]

Sounds like swashbuckler rogue

Especially in 2024

[turbid vessel]

swashbuckler hasn't been updated for 2024 yet?

[lyric idol]

Actually now I think about it classes are pretty covered. Rogue for range, Fighter for a balance of melee and range, Barbarian for melee focus. and monk for pure throwing hands.

[lyric idol]

I think its in Heroes of Faerun

[turbid vessel]

oh huh, guess i missed that lol

[craggy summit]

That's scion of the dead three, not swashbuckler iirc

[lyric idol]

Oops I'm wrong

[craggy summit]

Im pretty sure squashbuckler isnt in 2024 yet

[knotty basin]

Squashbuckler: uses gourds as shields

[craggy summit]

Oops 🤣🤣

[umbral girder]

There might have been UA

[prisma mason]

Helloo

[remote wadi]

Ehhh, maneuvers feel a little too complicated for now. Champion is more simple and downright beneficial for the main stat (plus, homebrew rule makes critical hit dice always max damage, so making crits possible on 19 and 20 is very useful)

[prisma mason]

Champion is very nice

[nova trellis]

Go into Battlemaster since the maneuvers synergies very well with your bow and offer some offers some spell like effects.

[lyric idol]

Maneuvers genuinely aren't complicated. Its a lot easier then it sounds. Especially since you can just take the maneuver that grants temp HP and spam that over and over.

[craggy summit]

BM fighters can offer alot of utility all from 30+ feet away, like disarming enemies, making then prone, making them frightened etc etc

[nova trellis]

Heck, ambush acts as a diet gift of alacrity that works on a resource that comes back on short rest.

[remote wadi]

Battlemaster doesn't feel like my thing. Also, since it will only be 6 levels, I will only get the primary benefit

[prisma mason]

Btw I've been looking into Osrs and lol and it's kinda neat to see how big of a difference it is

[remote wadi]

We already have healers + i have Fighter hit dice and Second Wind

Or will have it

[nova trellis]

You get everything on lv3 of fighter and its the best for archers

[lyric idol]

Level 3 battlemaster is a hard carry for mutli classes tbh.

Idk why people think maneuvers are complicated.

[prisma mason]

Some ppl just like to bonk

[craggy summit]

Maneuvers are not much different than spells and spellslots tbh

[empty thicket]

they arent and add an extra layer of "fighting" to the fighter

but i cant say too much yet, im using champion. Funny critics

[nova trellis]

What rubs you the wrong way anyway? The name of it?

[knotty basin]

I just wish battlemasters got more maneuvers

[nova trellis]

I wish all martials had access to maneuvers

[knotty basin]

Wait, never mind

[lyric idol]

Idk if it needs more maneuvers. It has a good maneuvers.

[empty thicket]

same, the feat htat let you get maneuvers give more

[knotty basin]

Meant like, more uses of them. But then I remembered they also come back on a short rest

[remote wadi]

No, and on the contrary for that reason
Champion getting me crits on a 19 means that my damage will get much better from both feats and homebrew rules

[knotty basin]

It should be 2 at least

[empty thicket]

Martial adept let you have 2, i mean that would let you have 3 or 4.

[lyric idol]

Easier crits aren't as good as it sounds tbh. I like champion, its a fun bonk and bonk again, but its damage output doesn't get severely increased from that ability alone.

[empty thicket]

Nope, i kinda mixmaxed and went Half orc, meaning i have an extra attack when i land a critic. (savage attacks, no, isnt hte feat Savage attacker)

[knotty basin]

It only gives you one though

[empty thicket]

Im still the most lethal of my party, i grab an enemy and deal him +20 per round if i land the hits

[empty thicket]

2024 or 2014?

[nova trellis]

Eh, if we're talking optimization. You can do trip attack on ranged attacks and thats a WAY better bang for your buck plus theres ambush which is basically gift of alacrity, a extra 1d8 you can add to initiative and thats only TWO MANEUVERS.

[lyric idol]

Thats fair. But he's planning to play as a ranger/fighter multiclass and I think as an archer.

[cerulean monolith]

If, we’re talking optimization, #optimization probably has the most knowledgeable folks

[empty thicket]

True, still, Fighter champion work on the idea of being more lethal and honestly, having access to an extra fighting style for free is useful.
Defense, archer, tunnel fighter, etc. etc.

[nova trellis]

Ok, to get away from optimization, battlemaster also allows for a lot of flavor and character expression.

[clear lark]

I don't know about homebrew stuff, but game wise. a 19 means you have an increase of a 10% chance for a Critical. At 15th level it increases to 18 for a 15% chance.

[cerulean monolith]

Inb4 “all fighters should get maneuvers”

[empty thicket]

And for lethal is just the critic chance, going from 5% to 10% is a lot

[empty thicket]

the lvl 20 feature i think, is giga strong.

If you dont get downed and less half hp, you regenerate hp constantly. So in fact, you are giga hard to kill.

[remote wadi]

1. I intend to get Piercer to help with bad damage rolls. Especially with Sharpshooter's active ability
2. In this campaign I am in, dice added from crits are always maximum damage. So the base crit from a longbow goes from 2d8 to 1d8 + 8 (1d8 + 16 with Piercer and 2d10 + 30 with Piercer and a hunting rifle)
3. That sort of damage dealing only gets elevated from the 5 ranger and 6 fighter levels, allowing me to do 3 attacks in one action with the option to Action Surge

[prisma mason]

How often are you going to 20 tho ngl

[empty thicket]

Never , but i like to point out that

[lyric idol]

Or a 19 as a champion tbh

I be thanking my lucky stars rolling a nat 15 tbh

[craggy summit]

I think they meant level 20

[jagged vigil]

Hey folks! I've been using a lot of Flee, Mortals recently and I wanted to ask: what's you guys' favorite 3rd party 5e monster? I love how MCDM does their demons, I find the soul as a meta currency so thrilling in a fight

[empty thicket]

18 dice critic is powerful, more if you considerate that a fighter is able to attack 2//3//4 times per turn. The chances are dangerous

[clear lark]

Maybe one day D&D will go the way of some games and come up with a point buy system for these abilities instead of the draconian level tree abilities progressions.

[empty thicket]

But sadly i think that any other upgrade to the "critic" dont stack

[lyric idol]

That...Would be actually insane. Imagine an echoknight with maneuvers.

[empty thicket]

i might be wrong tho

[prisma mason]

Eh I like subclasses ngl

[remote wadi]

Considering it's 20 or 19 as Champion and I have 3 attacks in one action, I can still get great damage without crits because of Sharpshooter. With 18 Dex, proficiency, and Archery, I still get a +1 to attack roll

[craggy summit]

Don't fighters get 4 attacks at level 20? 🤔

[prisma mason]

Yeah that's nice

[empty thicket]

Welp, good feed to the dragon

[empty thicket]

yeah but rarely you reach such level

[nova trellis]

In my campaign, I have magitech items that come with class features.

[remote wadi]

18 is only for Superior crits, which won't be possible with 6 levels. Getting a 19 or 20 while needing as few as 3 levels is still impressive

[prisma mason]

At LVL 20 you got ppl casting pwk and wish too

[remote wadi]

Yeah, level 20 is a whole other type of DnD

[empty thicket]

Yeah, if you win the initiative and use action surge on an enemy, 8 attacks, 10 if you are me (half orc)

[craggy summit]

-# don't forget a mighty haste spell 🤫

[lyric idol]

Bonking someone 4 times > Whispering people to death.

[rough basalt]

PWK and Wish are one or the other

A fighter is always attacking 4 times

[nova trellis]

At level 20, you have nerds casually casting WISH. At that point, I would really not care about slightly better crits.

[rough basalt]

For around 100 damage usually without crits

[lyric idol]

Wish. I wish these enemies never existed. Let the DM handle the consequences.

[rough basalt]

The wish fails

[empty thicket]

Oh yeah, but only if the bard get the initiative before tho. But yeah
10 attacks + extra from racial features.
The wizard wont be alive.

[nova trellis]

Not even just wish, silvery barbs is a first level spell, not imagine all the slots you now have!

[craggy summit]

I think that's enough to kill any non legendary creature, especially if the fighter has a wicked weapon

[rough basalt]

Silvery Barbs doesn't really matter at that level

Monsters usually have at least 4 attacks

With +16 or higher to hit so they're gonna hit you

[remote wadi]

Oh, yeah. Another thing
Once I level up again, getting the Gloomstalker subclass means I get a +8 minimum to my initiative, and will likely be a +14/+15 at level 9 once I get Alert

[rough basalt]

Sure you can potentially negate a crit but you're still gonna get hit 95% of the time

[umbral girder]

Yeah Silvery Barbs is also an entire slot too

[empty thicket]

yep, im not going deep in numbers because it would be too much. But just knowing that you can do 10 attacks in one turn would be enough to give an idea of how dangerous a fighter can be.
Now if you add the critics from champion, maneuvers from battle masters or many other features. Without adding any feat. Welp.

[rough basalt]

Yeah in t4 it's martials that are a good DMs nightmare

[craggy summit]

In short, big damage numbers

[empty thicket]

Still, the fighter benefit a lot from buffs, items, etc. etc. While other classes can survive for their own

[lyric idol]

If we ever go point buy for skills and abilities people are gonna have 4 attacks and a single level 5 spell by the time they hit level 4.

Why? Cantrip spam.

[rough basalt]

DnD would never be like that if we're being realistic

[remote wadi]

So with spells and passive abilities, it's not like piercing damage will be my one trick pony

Although... in the offchance someone resists or is immune to my piercing damage early on, I still have a silvered shortsword. So I won't be totally powerless

[lyric idol]

Ik and tbh there isn't a reason too.

[rough basalt]

It wouldn't be DnD anymore if we're playing Path of Exile

[empty thicket]

Got haste one time and i Decimated one enemy. Sadly the bard got his concentration broken and i got stunned.

[empty thicket]

Nope, its a fantasy world, let it like that

[buoyant oar]

I once as the villain offered to cast Haste on a player.

The player accepted and the villain immediately dropped concentration. Lmao

[rough basalt]

What does it being a fantasy world have to do with it

[craggy summit]

Oh my goodness I need to do that 🤣