dnd-discussion

[old sluice]

The stereotype has never been truer

[woven flint]

Insert either offense or agreement and laughter here

[buoyant oar]

Good. Marvel style writing has already infected everything to a nauseous degree

[shy stirrup]

Difficult to choose, hmm

[stoic obsidian]

Like a puzzle piece

[south tendon]

Okay, perhaps I should have said, the ones I make are easy to play. I usually pick a race that gets features to help it survive like Goliath or half orc, but them in the best armour I can get with a shield and take the champion subclass.

[woven flint]

I can't wait for an NPC to yap to me and just be like

"I'm so happy for you or I'm sorry what you're going through!"
And just fly off

[rugged hawk]

The world didn't need 20 reprints of Superman

[buoyant oar]

DND doesn't need all these subclass reprints.

[fluid quarry]

hi guys

[woven flint]

THERE'S A STAAAAAARRR MAAAAAANNNN WAITING IN THE SKY-

[hollow stone]

idk if it's what you're on about with any precision but i do say that Reliable Talent is really broken

[lyric idol]

500 reprints

[woven flint]

You anger me, but I agree

[buoyant oar]

We are on the third version of Bladesinger

[stoic obsidian]

I be using the message spell to continue to talk to them until they go insane, my suffering is now yours

[rugged hawk]

How dare you, we need every subclass to be ported forward in official capacity or we're losing possibilities without homebrew 😠

[lyric idol]

Nah some subclasses needed a glowup.

[old sluice]

Idea: A monster who happens to be the king of their country with an ability called "when you come at the king" that automatically deals damage to creatures that attack it and miss

[atomic kayak]

bladesinger definitely didn't need the tashas reprint

[lyric idol]

Beastmaster ranger already needs another glowup 😭

[fluid quarry]

im new to dnd

[woven flint]

Battlerager can stay behind, I'm fine with that
I'm sure nobody will miss it

[south tendon]

Dnd rogue is just bad. It’s bad because of the way dnd gives class features rather than feats and because in dnd multi classing means you need to sacrifice you main class

[atomic kayak]

I'm fine with modernizing subclasses, but bladesinger straight up didn't really change even in thasas

[buoyant oar]

Some yes. Not every sub pre 2024 needs to be reprinted.

[atomic kayak]

nah

[woven flint]

I want a revamped Wild Magic Barbarian though OR DIVINES HELP ME....!

[atomic kayak]

Most egrigious were the subs that came out in tashas and then were reprinted in the 2024 phb

[hollow stone]

this is factually incorrect and Reliable Talent and Thief and Cunning Action and Uncanny Dodge is why

[stoic obsidian]

I want a food class

[hollow stone]

also Sneak Attack is pretty cool

[fluid quarry]

does someone here have a suggestion for a first boss?

[umbral girder]

Free Nat 20s every rest is fun

[lyric idol]

It doesnt mean that though? Multiclasses are bringing in the best of 2 worlds. Multiclassing wizard and fighter is better then being a eldritch knight.

[uncut zenith]

Updating classes that needed a lot of work is fine, but just reprinting subclasses with little to no changes feels like a waste of time and money imo. Thankfully more often than not the updates have been welcome in my eyes.

[viral kraken]

oh it's just how dcs are supposed to fall in a certain numerical range, so numeric bonuses are not that common for things, but expertise just gives and extra +6 at max level making checks either trivial for them or impossible for the rest of the party. reliable talent combined with a minimum +12 to their expertise skills means a min 22 on their best checks

[buoyant oar]

I think tbh enough prep 2024 subs have been reprinted and I would like to see the designers actually design more subs. A book of all new subs?

Please?

[woven flint]

I hope they make a Chef Artificer or a Chef Bard subclass 😔

[stoic obsidian]

Or something silly

[stuck shuttle]

Welcome! I'd have a look at #learn-to-play and #dnd-newcomers if you haven't already!

[south tendon]

I play a rogue in pathfinder that would run circles around a dnd rogue of the same level

[fluid quarry]

ok thx

[atomic kayak]

As much as I would also like that, it ain't gonna happen I don't think

[woven flint]

Then play pathfinder instead of sitting around and complaining about a system you don't like

[stoic obsidian]

Nutcracker Artificer, all nuts shall be cracked

[buoyant oar]

We are now three sourcebooks into 5e refresh and we have yet to have a book of only new options.

[woven flint]

NOT MY NUTS!!!!
insert laugh track

[marble lion]

i want warlock to get a puppeteer subclass

[atomic kayak]

sighs in dragon warlock

[marble lion]

bard might work too. i havent really thought it through

[south tendon]

I don’t dislike the system really.

[lavish flame]

Frankly I want every 2014 subclass to get revised with a 2024 makeover, but I want to see the really bad 2014 subclasses get improved. I don't really care about Oath of Glory's 2024 update or Bladesinger. I want to see Battlerager Barbarian and Long Death Monk get revised.

[stoic obsidian]

The squirrels loved it, even my Druid wife, tho I lost track of her sometimes

[woven flint]

I think that fits bard a whole lot more

UAH (Ultimate Adventures Handbook) has it as a Bard subclass, it's very 2014 though lol

At least it's a post-tasha third party book

[dense parrot]

Character idea (if DM allows it)
They can do almost everything… but they only work 9-5. So they will only help you after 9am, and clock out at 5pm so you’re on your own lmao

[lyric idol]

Dreadnought armor for artificer looks sick.

[hollow stone]

that's like saying Rainbow Six: Siege Operators would absolutely destroy the police in Ready Or Not, technically true but also two different games with only somewhat similar design philosophies

[marble lion]

yeah i just think it needs the warlocks invocations and more offensive capabilities for what i want

just give them both one. easy

[woven flint]

Preach, Sister

[stoic obsidian]

Give me my puppets, I would love it

[buoyant oar]

Nah. I personally don't want the team to creatively crutch themselves by spending Years porting old material

[woven flint]

Can't wait for Psion to drop and it be the only class I ever play from then on

[south tendon]

All I meant was having played a far better version of a rogue in pathfinder, I find dnd rogue to be bad. I wasn’t suggesting other people wouldn’t enjoy it. I’m sure some do. It# bad for me

[buoyant oar]

The only way I'd be okay with them porting a bunch of stuff is they do a single book like MMM and then it's done.

[woven flint]

I already have a character concept for each subclass 😎

[stoic obsidian]

You know you can’t resist the thrill of combat

[atomic kayak]

its not "a better version"

pathinder is a completely different game.

DnD and Pathfinder are very different game systems, even if they appear similar on the surface

[woven flint]

That's why Metamorph Psion is my favorite.

[stoic obsidian]

Pick up your shovel and dig

[south tendon]

I think people are assuming that I’m trying to tell them their experiences are wrong. That’s not what I’m doing. Everything I say refers to me and my experiences alone, and only to me. Or my perceptions or my opinions.

[umbral girder]

Bro has not read a pathfinder core book with that description

[hollow stone]

please engage in the practice of i statements <3
"have you played pathfinder's Rogue? i find it better fits (x,y,z criteria), which is what i think the allure of DND rogue is, and i like it" ✅
"I play a rogue in pathfinder that would run circles around a dnd rogue of the same level" ❌

[atomic kayak]

You have been trying to state facts about the dnd system that are factually untrue multiple times from what I've observed

[woven flint]

No, it's probably just because all you've done is complain about D&D for the past hour and it's probably wearing on people just a bit
Instead of taking solutions to problems you just complain further.

[stoic obsidian]

More than a hour for some

[rugged hawk]

He's been at it for days off and on.

[stoic obsidian]

Since yesterday

For me

[viral kraken]

i was there, 3000 years ago

[hollow stone]

the way you say things is structured with an air of self perceived factuality that drives interpersonal conflict and makes it hard to agree with you on a moral basis

[rugged hawk]

If you wanna be my lover, you gotta CAST IT INTO THE FIRE!

[south tendon]

Shrugs I can complain about stuff I like lol. But okay I see your point

[umbral girder]

Like I said yall, block and move on

[shy stirrup]

I wanna complain about sand. It's coarse, rough and irritating and it gets everywhere

[umbral girder]

More productive that going in circles for hours/days

[rugged hawk]

Okay, but the spice must flow

[lyric idol]

Rogues flavor in DND is amazing. Rogues combat ability in DND not so much. As long as your DM runs a balanced game Rogue is a blast. For a halloween one shot I basically made Ghostface.

[viral kraken]

sand also doesn't use mana, and lacks replayability. the devs didn't give me a bucket, so clearly it's intended only for carrying by hand

[shy stirrup]

I mean in quicksand form, sand is just OP

[rugged hawk]

No, it's carried by pocket, clearly. POCKET SAND!

[stoic obsidian]

I think rogue consistency in damage is good for combat, and devious strike add options to use with sneak attack besides damage

At least how I see it

[hollow stone]

using me as an example because i watch me more than i watch you, i've tailored my typing patterns to be absent of most punctuation and capitalization (unless i'm trying to come across serious in some manner). This is because when I choose to type properly and formally, my already passive vocabulary can appear aggressive and mad at you to some degree. I do not like to seem mad at people. thus, as a direct result, i simply choose not to

[lyric idol]

"I CAST: VISION OBSCURRATIO"

Throws pocket sand and runs away

[shy stirrup]

DId they nerf sand in 2024? Cause if they didn't, I don't wanna play it

[viral kraken]

i keep being told i come across as annoyed, and i think it's just the way i talk or my word choice or something, i rarely get annoyed. i take steps to prevent sounding like that tho

[rugged hawk]

Ackshually, they buffed it. Now it's 1d6 nonlethal damage per hour while sand is lodged in unmentionable places of your garments.

[stoic obsidian]

I rather use mud, harder to wipe away

[knotty basin]

Is there no way to move phantasmal force?

[umbral girder]

Fun fact they removed the bag full of sand Sages use to start with in 2014

[south tendon]

I mean it’s been a debate from my perspective. I’ve said something, you’ve all responded, I’ve giving every possible reason why said thing isn’t correct until I’ve run of reasons why said thing isn’t correct, wouldn’t work or isn’t worth it, and then been persuaded in the end. Response countered response until I ran out of responses and lost.

[stoic obsidian]

Wait what page?

[old sluice]

We've all moved on. Do the same.

[hollow stone]

i mean they made Suffocation rules?

[rugged hawk]

The pages of I Made It The Hell Up.

[lyric idol]

"It came to me in a dream."

[stoic obsidian]

Nice joke Wendy

[viral kraken]

and i forgot it in a different dream

[south tendon]

Sure

[woven flint]

Senator Armstrong?!

[lyric idol]

I almost half remembered it in a 3rd dream, but alas I slept the whole night and by morn it was gone like a thief in the night.

[south tendon]

Have fun ya all. I don’t know how to do this small talk so I’m getting off now. enjoy the re#t of your day and have fun in whatever you play.

[woven flint]

Damn Dreams.. fickle, they are

[hollow stone]

also, the issue then diagnoses itself, as trying to debate people comes across as argumentative and aggressive on purpose, which drives interpersonal conflict. conversations have to build on each other, whereas debates are often meant to break down, which creates a negative experience for those involved

[stuck saddle]

ARTIFCER WHERE

[rugged hawk]

You know, the more I look at the Ghosts of Saltmarsh, the less 'fantasy' and more 'cosmic existential horror' this entire friggin region of the world looks.

One forest connected to the Abyss. Another connected to Shadowfell. A third connected to Feywild. There's a river of vaguely sentient, malevolent OOZE. And a (former) Temple of Elemental Evil to top it all off.

[woven flint]

Right behind you.

[woven flint]

A River of Vaugely sentient Malevolent Ooze?!

How DARE you speak about my mother like that! /silly

[lyric idol]

That new Cartographer subclass looks like entirely flavor but I kinda dig it.

[hollow stone]

oo what's Cartographer a subclass of?

[woven flint]

Artificer

[hollow stone]

i haven't read the patchnotes (me no wanna)

[woven flint]

But you're in the notes

[umbral girder]

Remember to wait for the book to be released fully before talking about it

[hollow stone]

me in the note???

[umbral girder]

The book is still in early access after all

[lyric idol]

Making maps that grant the target holding it additional bonuses like initiative bonus and such.

[woven flint]

Says right here that you started a new faction!

"The Sisterhood of Sisters"!

[hollow stone]

o!!

[lyric idol]

Oh and portal jumping

[woven flint]

Also, I added you, you're my friend now.
Prepare for doom.

[hollow stone]

that sounds interesting to reflavor

[rugged hawk]

Hmm, there's an idea for a cult centered around Belts of Gender.

[woven flint]

Instead of giving out maps, I hand out pipe bombs and it gives them a bonus to initiative because they're freaking out and want to get rid of it

[stoic obsidian]

Almost it like the world is magical

And stuff happens

[lyric idol]

Yeah looks really fun. Also makes it so the target can always know the location of the other wielders of the cartographers maps on the same plane of existence.

[woven flint]

She made me an Honorary sister

[lyric idol]

Lmao thats hilarious.

[stoic obsidian]

How about one centered around a gold fish

[woven flint]

Thanks, Clippy

[south tendon]

Thanks your right. But I’ve been told several times to stop it so I’d rather not keep it going. I don’t wanna end up getting booted. I’ll just chill out and watch the chat now.

[rugged hawk]

I once launched a cult of the Cookpot of South Gate, since it was the only unbreakable object at the South Gate. So a mad bardess began to worship its divine immortality and hand out cures, blessings, and prayers in its honor.

[woven flint]

I'm gonna make a Cult about Cults!

[rugged hawk]

The routine goblin armies would regularly destroy all of South Gate, but the cooking pot would always be the only thing left standing, so she took it as a sign.

[stoic obsidian]

Man people worship almost anything huh, I wonder if people would worship nothing

Actually that be lunacy

[woven flint]

Most definitely lol

[rugged hawk]

Then some adventurers got tired of her preaching and stuffed the whole cooking pot full of explosives. However, the sound of it cooking and sizzling remained even when it was gone, so she declared that the cookpot had simply ascended into the heavens to watch over them all from the celestial realms.

[lyric idol]

My mans gonna start atheism in DND lol.

[hollow stone]

ooo yea i can't wait for the full release that sounds cool

[hollow stone]

i remember someone relating DND Atheism to being a flat earther and it really made sense

[stoic obsidian]

I am one already, but yeah I be the one pointing out the fake ones and calling out the real one on their flaws even if it kills me

[clear lark]

That wouldn't help anyway, since you can't use the Monk's Wisdom to calculate AC if you are wearing armor or donning a shield.

[hollow stone]

you will most likely never see a god in DND but it's kinda hard and you'd have to ignore a lot of evidence to pretend they're not there

[knotty pasture]

You'd just have to take all those off

[rugged hawk]

Atheism in D&D isn't about denying Gods exist, it's about denying that SENTIENT CONCEPTS are worth worshipping.

[knotty pasture]

Which's what I mean by it being more trouble than its worth, how much wisdom would you need to even break even

[stoic obsidian]

Exactly

[vast pelican]

Well, that's irreligiousness, atheism is specifically a rejection of the fact proposition that gods exist.

[compact nova]

this sounds cool! You can try to design a game that does that. This is not that game :)

[stoic obsidian]

Heard of agnostic

[rugged hawk]

The gods very blatantly exist, they're just the manipulators of concepts so widely-accepted that the idea took on power of its own.

[lyric idol]

I have oppinionism and I reject your opinion and deny its existence.

[hollow stone]

that's not caring whether or not gods exist

[stoic obsidian]

Actually nvm let’s get off this topic

[stoic obsidian]

I goofed

[hollow stone]

yea sure

[woven flint]

Me when the Town Gaurd is scolding my parties barbarian for being a drunkard, as I virtual insanity slide to grab his sword from its sheath

[clear lark]

As a Cleric you will know whether or not Gods exist, when you have to use a Class Ability the depends on them working.

[compact nova]

yeah it's hard to talk about fantasy atheism without talking about real atheism which can get messy with unstructured discussion

[lyric idol]

Cleric of the Faithless Domain when?

[rugged hawk]

Well, there's also divine magic that works from your own faith, not outside power. Like some kinds of Paladins, for instance.

[stoic obsidian]

Exactly

[woven flint]

THE REAL AMERICAN WAY!

[lyric idol]

RAHHHH

[vast pelican]

I've gotta get off my butt and run a table in a setting w/o gods.

[knotty pasture]

Fantasy atheism can be lethal anyways, what with faithless ones being sent to hades(?)

[hollow stone]

-# off topic but i think it's really funny that both a David (ping me) and a Dave (no pings please) exist in the same server

[knotty pasture]

Anyways they'd basically suffer lots after they pass away if they choose to not believe in a god

[woven flint]

My opinion is correct!
I depict you as the Soyjack and myself as the Gigachad

[knotty pasture]

So worshipping in general is that important in dnd

[stoic obsidian]

Yeah, and frankly it makes more sense than you think. Actually believing in yourself or in something gives you power

[compact nova]

If that's how you run your setting

[lyric idol]

Ngl if I met a cleric who casted miracles and did divine blessings and wasnt doing it from any divine being granting them powers I think I'd be more terrified of them.

[knotty pasture]

In older versions of dnd its canon at least, ofc you can retcon it

[stoic obsidian]

Wait is this power of being delusional

[hollow stone]

i mean that would depend on setting, yea

[vast pelican]

All casters are reality-benders, may as well lean into that.

[hollow stone]

i mean i think it is FR Canon that somebody at some point gaslit enough people into believing they're a god that they actually became one

[viral kraken]

i get to play my silly little kenku arcane trickster in like an hour, i'm excited

[woven flint]

Funny Off-Topic: You know, I start to get disturbed when people start talking about seducing dragons now because one of my characters is now indirectly a father of one 😔

[rugged hawk]

This is very much a valid path to godhood, yeah. Usually the slowest one, but it can work if there's a portfolio free.

[stoic obsidian]

That means the opposite can happen

[rugged hawk]

Yes, you can kill gods by mass-forgetting them.

Like Amaunator, for instance.

[hollow stone]

especially in a lore accurate setting where the world population is only a few thousand people, it's really funny because if you can get like one village on the idea then it would work

[lyric idol]

Yeah but its an unstated rule; Wizards get their abilities from their knowledge of the laws of reality. Sorcerers get their powers from bloodline of something with magic in it or an artifact. Paladins bards and clerics get it from divine beings.

I

[woven flint]

What if the Kuo Toa just start mass imagining gods into existence

[stoic obsidian]

That mean it a eco system that creates and uncreates things by sheer thought

[clear lark]

Not believing in gods, don't kill them, just turns them into Vestiges per the DMG

[viral kraken]

i thought bards went to college

[rugged hawk]

Not all, Divine Sorcs exist, too

[shy stirrup]

Fighters get it from swinging a club 💪

[viral kraken]

or are the colleges something else entirely?

[hollow stone]

if you literally just get an island on some Divine Right Of Kings then you would be getting a god every child or so

[lyric idol]

Youre right.

[stoic obsidian]

Oh

[lyric idol]

Bards are permanently in college. Wizards completed college and got their PhDs.

[rugged hawk]

Well yeah, that's the entire cosmos to begin with. It was created through will, it can be undone by it, too. That's the entire basis of the Planes being static/dynamic/morphic/divinely morphic to begin with.

[compact nova]

I like the idea of gods as a result of collective human understanding of a concept.

So yes, the god of light exists, but it is a sentient manifestation of the collective mental concept of light (both literally & figuratively)

So if one person doesn't believe in the god of light, it's in the same way you might not believe "in someone". Like yes, they are there in the sky, but you don't think they are worth acknowledging and focusing on.

Who says gods require worship to go to the good place? Again, unless you're running a specific setting with specific gods, the rules are yours for what gets someone into hell

[lyric idol]

Meh if gods died from being forgotten all my campaigns wouldve ended before they started (I'm a big fan of the forgotten god trope)

[compact nova]

The actual term atheist is incredibly modern

[woven flint]

Wizards are also always in chronic debt (gotta pay to learn them spells, afterall)

[rugged hawk]

Concepts have power. The wider a concept, the bigger its ideological mass. At a critical point, someone dedicated enough to the concept ties into it and becomes its physical, sentient manifestation, a God.

[stoic obsidian]

I like to check were in the dmg, if you can help with that?

[lyric idol]

Depending on the DM they stay in debt permanently.

[compact nova]

They don't have to die. Maybe they get weak... Or maybe they aren't forgotten (the idea they are built on is still existent, but people just forgot about their sentient power and influence)

[lyric idol]

Weak is fine.

[rugged hawk]

D&D gods aren't people in the normal sense, though. They're supposed to be sentient concepts and embody that concept completely, no matter what they were before or how they thought as a mortal.

[clear lark]

It's in the Gods and Powers section of the new DMG

[rugged hawk]

That;s why Kelemvor and Mystra got in trouble, for not abandoning their humanity

[stoic obsidian]

Thank you

[valid geyser]

theology in d&d is very weird and not really one to one with real world religion.
I like to run lesser gods not as like, "God of a more niche subject matter so has less worshippers" and more as "Important saint of a greater god" or "God who only has power in a specific area"

[hollow stone]

i remember i once homebrewed a patron whos power was still similar to the god's despite being relatively unknown because they were trapped in a place beyond time but not space, which then resulted in their worship still coming from "before" they were banished, but as they were without time and time without them, it had the same impact as if they were being worshipped "now"

[rugged hawk]

Well yeah, there's all kinds of layers you can run on the mortal-divinity scale. Heroes, legends, demigods of varying power, minor powers of highly specific things and/or places, more widespread powers with a larger base of influence, etc

[old sluice]

What in the 40k is this?

(It's a joke because that's kind of how gods work in 40k. Kinda)

[valid geyser]

also of course i think the major reason a lot of these gods exist is just for gameplay, settings like FR have a bazillion gods so we can have a lot of cleric player characters with interesting gimmicks

[stoic obsidian]

Tbh I found this talk interesting going over dnd gods

Frankly it fascinating how dnd set this up

[hollow stone]

their inability to fall from power was because you can have space without time, but there's no duration in which the space is occupied, and as all movements occur over time, any form of change in the deity itself was occurring over nothing, and thus, nothing ever occurred on their end, as time had moved on without them

[compact nova]

Many hands have touched the lore of d&d gods over the years

[stoic obsidian]

Yeah, lore change over time like refining wine

Tbh now I feel tempted to make Mind Goblin into a god now

Or maybe the man behind the curtain

[dense rune]

I COME BEARING GLORIOUS NEWS EVERYONE
https://youtube.com/shorts/Q13hqTA3BBg?si=0pxxIUWDjfurdgtS

[inner silo]

Guys i just rolled my stats for my new campaign and i got 17 15 15 14 14 and 12, is this good?

[viral kraken]

yes

[stoic obsidian]

Yes, very good

[umbral girder]

Bro entered chat just to give a sus link

[stoic obsidian]

I checked it

[old sluice]

Well above average.

[umbral girder]

It's alright

[inner silo]

alrighty

[old sluice]

Not sus. It's a bunch of youtubers announcing they'll be streaming a D&D game

[stoic obsidian]

It about weapon content creators playing together, like sellswordarts

[old sluice]

Pretty good youtubers for that matter

[lyric idol]

Alright? Back in my day that was a certified hood classic

[dense rune]

weve been waiting for it for ages 😭🙏

[stoic obsidian]

The weapons YouTube’s playing dnd gonna be interesting

[umbral girder]

Tbh stats are like important for the first 2-3 sessions in the game's I've been playing then kinda become irrelelvant.

[viral kraken]

huh, i have not had that experience

[lyric idol]

Your DM may be handing out too many magic items in my opinion tbh.

[umbral girder]

I use the RAW magic item and treasure rules

So you eventually just don't care as much with stats eventually because gear and Proficiency bonus cover all you ever need.

[candid raft]

When my character with great stats died in CoS I rolled a new character with like, 8,8,10,10,11,12 😭 sigh

[lyric idol]

I dont really give out magic items in the beginning. I also dont start it out too difficult tbh.

[stoic obsidian]

And you can still fall rolls

[umbral girder]

Yep

[stoic obsidian]

Dice rolling game does that

[south tendon]

I did this in the game I run and it made it so the pcs weren’t challenged really. I wanted them to have fun and not die, but I can confirm giving magic items out too soon was a mistake lol.

[clear lark]

The DMG suggest handing out magic items at the begining.

[umbral girder]

It is rather noticable with RAW treasure rules going from level 1 to 20 makes you wildly powerful (If you survive the whole thing)

[shy stirrup]

It's dangerous to go alone, here take this:
Magic Item

[umbral girder]

of course it still easy to challenge them, I just buff a few moderate encounters to High encounters

[lyric idol]

Yeah I usually hand out magic items for major objective completions tbh.

[stoic obsidian]

As the enemies get harder and harder

[viral kraken]

is that why that weak little wooden sword worked at all? it was magic?

[south tendon]

Honestly if I could do it again, I’d just stick to the official rules i think.

[umbral girder]

It is fun as well because I give out a magic item and everyone goes "Woah that is so epic!!!!......... Is it attunement?"

[lyric idol]

For that reason I make item sellers few and far between.

[umbral girder]

Plus even magic items have their limits if you do proper resource drain with the 8 encounters a day rule

[stoic obsidian]

Wood in dnd is magic confirmed

[lyric idol]

What are you playing in a party with an artificer or somethingM

[umbral girder]

The fun part is we kinda realise how useless Artificer is in these type games

[viral kraken]

i have such a hard time getting my encounters in each day, i really need to use different long rest rules next campaign, like the long rest each week thing

[umbral girder]

The items they make are irrelevant by the time they are unlocked.

[lyric idol]

Artificer useless = too many magic items.

[umbral girder]

Artificer benefits from not just short adventuring days, but just short campaigns overall

[viral kraken]

i think i said next campaign

i would not change that mid campaign unless my players were into the idea (which why would they be)

[umbral girder]

Their infusions basically are always behind the progression of the RAW treasure because the RAW loot is just flat out better

[lyric idol]

I scale my magic item reward back if an artificer is in a campaign. More gold, more potions, more gems and such. Gotta give that artificer artificer stonks.

[stoic obsidian]

Not always, because magic items created by the artificer are the most basic stuff most people would have eventually

[shy stirrup]

Fall off a cliff, breaking every bone in your body?
No worries, just take a nap and you'll be ok

[stoic obsidian]

Time to roll for encounters

[umbral girder]

Well a reminder that the DMG even says 1d4-1 magic items every session when the player levels are 1 to 4, and it gets bigger than that.

[lyric idol]

More reason to not give out magic items as much.

[umbral girder]

This is not including any magic items they can also just buy from a store too.

[serene garnet]

What's the best class for a necromancer?

[south tendon]

I should probably find some YouTube videos to learn how to properly do balancing lol. Instead of just giving my players stuff cos I want them to have fun.

[stoic obsidian]

Oh no you got mind flares

[umbral girder]

Plus the DMG recommends boosting the amount of loot by 25% incase they miss it.

[umbral girder]

Wizard and Cleric

[serene garnet]

Not sorcerer?

[umbral girder]

Nah

Sorcerer's benefit is their meta magic which don't mix with the undead creating spells

[stoic obsidian]

In case they miss the magic store?

[night reef]

Anyone another party member for a DND session?

[vast pelican]

I don't know any sorcerer subclasses that offer any necromantic boons.

[lyric idol]

Tbf I have never ran a campaign using much of the books. I basically got forever dm cursed my first time playing and learned from other people, with assistance from google. I only break out the book for a rule debate or to make a change I want.

[umbral girder]

Besides maybe the summoning spells but thats more a conjurer than a necromancer

[south tendon]

Can a sorcerer be a necromancer? I thought it was only a wizard thing, was I wrong?

[serene garnet]

Nugget said sorcerer

[umbral girder]

They can be. Not a good one but they can be.

[south tendon]

Oh

[stoic obsidian]

#looking-for-players this be the place to look

[lyric idol]

You can reflavor a paladin to be a necromancer if you wanted. Any caster class can be except maybe bard? Idk if they have the spells.

[umbral girder]

Oathbreaker can be a wicked strong necromancer, but that isn't a subclass made for Players

[south tendon]

That interesting I always just thought it was just for wizards

[vast pelican]

A necromancer is just someone who works in the realm of undeath. That can be pretty much anything, it's just that Wizard has the actual subclass for doing it well.

[south tendon]

Oh

[night reef]

@stoic obsidian I put in looking for a dm request and checking my other resources

[twin gyro]

Necromancy in D&D is pretty underwhelming IMO

[raw ocean]

Anyone know any shortcuts to making golems or am I just gonna have to wait the 30 days and cough up the gold for the manual?

[umbral girder]

That is pretty much it

[raw ocean]

What about iron flask being used on a golem and then ordering it to fail on a geas spell?

I understand golems are immune to charm but im pretty sure spells can work if it's willingly accepted

[candid raft]

What is generally the strongest cleric subclass? Like with the best spells? If that’s a thing

[raw ocean]

Twilight

[serene garnet]

Awww okay cuz I kinda wanted to aura farm like jin woo

[umbral girder]

That's a legendary item for a high level spell and its still immune no matter what

[candid raft]

Why? Because of the temp hp thing?

[umbral girder]

Willingness can by pass a saving throw but not Immunity.

Temp HP spam is not really that broken

You can go like 5 pages into the Monster Manual and see its very easy to get around it

[crimson gulch]

The druid with 80 temph hp in wild shape the other day was like uh oh when they got hit with a 45 point hp max reduction

[umbral girder]

When you just throw any status effect

[rugged hawk]

Prismatic Spray!

[umbral girder]

In terms of Subclass features I usually go with Light domain.
In terms of spell list Trickery

[south tendon]

I can’t attach pictures in here right?

[umbral girder]

No

[real thunder]

It's an absurd amount of temp hp
They also have the sleep spell to carry low lvl, flight and a bunch of other good stuff

[south tendon]

Oh no worries. It’s fine. I was just gonna screenshot the spells I added and ask if I should change of them, but it’s cool no worries

[atomic kayak]

could at least remove the tracking information and give actual details about whats on the link lol

[serene garnet]

So it's not possible to play a good necro aka Jin woo

[atomic kayak]

? yes it is

[knotty basin]

What does that even mean

[atomic kayak]

a good necromancer is very possible to play

[serene garnet]

You don't know sung jin woo?

[crimson gulch]

necromancer is one of the weaker wizard subclasses in my experience, very popular though i have had several in my games over the years

[knotty basin]

Hell, with finger of death you can get theoretically infinite zombies to fight for you

[clear lark]

Creating undead is an evil act, but that doesn't make you evil by default

[knotty basin]

Granted you do need to kill a lot of people to do so

[raw ocean]

I found a short cut but it's going to require the ancient power of 3.5 spells [My DM allows them if looked over]

Ill create a hyperbolic time chamber

[umbral girder]

That it?

[viral kraken]

gotta watch out for 3.5 spells or else the dm can just disjunction the golem back into materials lol

[clear lark]

Probably not infinite, since you are limited on how many times you can cast it daily.

[raw ocean]

Ill be using the genesis spell which basically lets me create a mini-plane of my own

[rugged hawk]

Also depends on how you're doing your necromancy. Some methods are much, much more evil than others. Like binding souls into corpses is considered SUPER EVIL, but if you simply infuse an empty corpse with a lot of Negative Energy ala Animated Object, it's not.

[bitter spindle]

Friends talking about getting a DnD campaign running, and after getting all excited to try out warrior of the open hand, the DM says he won’t be using anything from the new PHB…don’t even wanna play anymore

[knotty basin]

Isn’t there an immortality boon?

[cinder timber]

that's a bummer

[viral kraken]

but then there are finite corpses to worry about when that is no longer the bottleneck

[umbral girder]

That's from 2014 and just stops you from aging

[knotty basin]

Exactly

No aging = no limit on how many zombies you can make, since you’ll live for unlimited days

The only issue is finding enough corpses

[rugged hawk]

The most particular catching point I've seen against necromancy isn't even the undead themselves, but the negative energy required, as the maintained connection to the Negative Energy Plane causes creeping corruption in the Prime Material.

[twin gyro]

In D&D, summoning or raising the dead just ends up eating into the action economy.

If you want to aura farm do Enchantment.

[clear lark]

There's the Boon of Recovery, that acts like Orc ability

[knotty basin]

There is also a boon that makes you stop aging

[umbral girder]

Notaably you are still limited in how many you can control too

[cinder timber]

I wish I could make my tiefling look like an oni

[knotty basin]

Wait, where does it say that?

[umbral girder]

And of course there is any destruction of the bodies, or playing a game that long, or any anti magic

[rugged hawk]

That's always been a thing. The trick to have entire actual armies of controlled undead are to control some powerful, sentient undead, who use their own powers to control the mindless hordes.

[hollow stone]

i know i had a plan for an aura farming Warlock who would walk around in plainclothes/no armor and have no weapons, then instantly pop Pact Of The Blade and Armor Of Shadows when combat started literally just to hit a transformation sequence to aura farm and intimidate the enemies

[knotty basin]

I mean, you can, it’s dnd

[umbral girder]

And those guys are usually immune to being controlled.

[rugged hawk]

or you can go the more usual route and just try to make / find a necro artifact

[twin gyro]

Sailor Moon ahhh transformation

[rugged hawk]

Well, largely, unless you've got some strong Control Undead / Command Undead

[umbral girder]

Still does not by pass immunities

[hollow stone]

eh, i was thinking like DMC's Dante popping Devil Trigger and summoning his Devil Sword

[umbral girder]

But yeah if you needed an undead who controls other undead you could try the Wight.

Wights can control 12 zombies they make with their Drain life and are not immune to charmed.

[knotty basin]

Ok, but where does it say there’s a limit on how many zombies you can control?

[umbral girder]

Animate Dead and similar spells

each casting states how many you can reinforce your control over

[knotty basin]

Finger of death doesn’t have that restriction

[umbral girder]

Yep. Oh yeah also when a zombie dies you cannot bring them back with necromancy spells too

Like animate dead says "The body of a humanoid" and a dead zombie is the body of an Undead

[knotty basin]

So?

[umbral girder]

That is also limited by the fact Finger of death is very high level

[knotty basin]

You can still theoretically turn the entire humanoid population into zombies under your control

[knotty basin]

Again, irrelevant because there is a boon to stop aging

[umbral girder]

Also interestingly adds a new weakness too

Because that requires verbal orders

[knotty basin]

Did I ever say it was practical?

[umbral girder]

So you have to be heard and close enough to be heard.

Then again animate dead also is restricted to 60ft of the undead

[knotty basin]

Easily fixable.
“Every morning, come to me and get orders.”

[knotty basin]

Why are we bringing up animate dead

[umbral girder]

Because that is the prime undead making spell

[hot reef]

Using two actions to aura farm

[umbral girder]

Necromancer wizard is even built around it

[hollow stone]

Bonus Action and an Action, just one turn

[raw ocean]

What's your opinions on DM's giving insane monkey paws to wishes?

[hot reef]

Ah, 2024

[knotty basin]

I hate it

Either do the wish or have it not work

[umbral girder]

Depends on the wish

[raw ocean]

Like I can understand a monkey paw coming into effect if your getting a wish from some creature that will try to trick you

[clear lark]

I agree. I have never believed in the concept of finding a way to make the Wish work against the player

[umbral girder]

The bigger the wish the more likely to go wrong

[raw ocean]

but if I wanna wish for 100 thousand gold I should just be able to get my gold

[hot reef]

Often times “monkey paws” lack creativity and feel pointless, especially when the PC has fairly earned a wish

[knotty basin]

Is it just me or should wish not be a spell for PCs?

[vale sage]

Are you guys doing a campaign

[shy stirrup]

Yea...thematically neat, but bleh

[raw ocean]

Depends on the wish use

[umbral girder]

The 4e method

[vale sage]

Are you guys doing a campaign

[clear lark]

Back in AD&D the Alternate Reality spell was a less powerful version of Wish

[knotty basin]

Yes, everyone in the server is in one single campaign

[hot reef]

#looking-for-dm

[vale sage]

Oh ok

[rugged hawk]

Sure, nothing wrong with that. 50 coins = 1 lb, you're now suffocating under 2,000 lbs of solid gold coins.

[umbral girder]

If you are trying to join a game #find-a-game is where you go for that!

[raw ocean]

See exactly

Gotta write a 30 page paragraph to get a reasonable wish

[umbral girder]

Not even needed

[raw ocean]

[still his a downside somehow]

[umbral girder]

They now just have a big pile of gold they can’t even move anywhere

Unless they run off with it in chunks

[rugged hawk]

That too, yeah

[knotty basin]

I mean, they can just come back whenever they need more

[raw ocean]

My trump card, encumbrance dosen't exist in the campaign!

[rugged hawk]

And which might get stolen if they leave it alone

[umbral girder]

Not unless you are a 2014 Orc Bear totem Barbarian

[frigid plover]

Hypothetically how long could creatures who arent resistant to cold survive in a snowy mountain

[knotty basin]

It would take more than a couple thieves to transport a literal ton of gold

[raw ocean]

Tbh most of the time I just wish for a simple ability, literally asked for the ability to not allow people to lie to me and they tried giving me a monkey paw with it

[umbral girder]

It’s a DC 10 con save every hour

[hot reef]

1 exhaustion on fail

[umbral girder]

So depends on their con, or if they got specialized clothing or items

[frigid plover]

What if they have a fire

[umbral girder]

So a dude with a +9 con save just doesn’t care

[rugged hawk]

I mean, it's entirely viable the gold doesn't get 'stolen', just noticed by a dragon and hoarded on the spot

[lean wigeon]

if it'd make for a narratively interesting story, like exploring themes of greed and hubris, i'd ask the player for their consent to do a monkey's paw. otherwise i just make the wish fail if granting the wish would be problematic somehow

[umbral girder]

I do like a list of Hag wishes I read

[frigid plover]

Ok so how long would a fire burn without any fuel

[hollow stone]

would a Silver Dragonborn survive in the mountains?

[umbral girder]

One was for a ton of gold, so you got trapped inside a block of gold

[umbral girder]

Yeah they resist cold.

[raw ocean]

My character want's to build a school in memory of our wizard buddy who died that wanted to teach everyone magic, DM said building a top of the line school would cost 3 Billion gold...

[umbral girder]

Cold resistance ignores cold weather effects.

[knotty basin]

0 seconds

[raw ocean]

I thought a wish spell would help

[red steppe]

Would it make sense for Fire Elementals to survive there too

[vale sage]

Can I be a sorcerer

[hollow stone]

OSHA regulations are often mere OSHA suggestions...

[hot reef]

Hmm didn’t know that

[umbral girder]

Sure. None of us can stop you.

[knotty basin]

Nope, sorry, new members can only play fighter

[frigid plover]

I want to do a campaign that takes place entirely in a snowy mountain and i dont want them to all just freeze to death session 1

[raw ocean]

atp I should just build the school myself

[vale sage]

Ok

[umbral girder]

Yeah the reverse with Fire resistance and Hot Weather too

[vale sage]

What does fighter do

[old sluice]

What level are you?

[raw ocean]

17 Bard

[knotty basin]

What does it sound like sherlock

[hot reef]

Just say they’re wearing suitable clothes

[red steppe]

Hit stuff two times

[vale sage]

Ok

[frigid plover]

Mk

[umbral girder]

Have a lot of HP and Attacks and extra Feats/Stats

[old sluice]

Okay so I have a spell for you: Mighty Fortress.

[umbral girder]

Fighters also can use every weapon and armor in the game

[old sluice]

Get a buddy to cast it. Make it permanent

[frigid plover]

I cast fire ball

[raw ocean]

Can I shape it to look like a school?

[umbral girder]

Ask your Dm

[vale sage]

Ok

[old sluice]

No the spell describes what the fortress is like. But it is big enough to be a school.
Also what even is the shape of a school?

[raw ocean]

Like a college campus basically

[old sluice]

Also, get a temple of the gods in there, a hallow spell, and you're golden.

[umbral girder]

I can think of a magic school that looks more like a fortress. But that is from the franchise that will not be named.

[frigid plover]

How bad of an idea would it be to give an enemy the domt

[umbral girder]

Alternatively there is also Candlekeep which is also like that

[raw ocean]

So im looking at harvard for comparison

[trying to house 25,000 students]

[umbral girder]

Well what is the reason?

[knotty basin]

Either TPK or the enemy instantly dies

[old sluice]

Do you really think medieval-renaissance demographics will allow for twenty-five thousand students in a single school?

[umbral girder]

IDK not sure why it is relevant either.

[frigid plover]

Well my main concern is the players taking the domt after killing it

[vale sage]

Why are y'all building a school

[knotty basin]

Dude. they’re not getting a chance to kill it

[raw ocean]

It's gonne be like multiple schools of magic centered in one place

[umbral girder]

Then why have it in game at all?

[old sluice]

Ok so... What the hell is a domt?

[frigid plover]

Because it would be really funny if the enemy just pulls the card that kills them

[knotty basin]

Deck of many things

[old sluice]

Why?

[vast pelican]

The Deck of Many Things is purpose-built for breaking campaigns.

[barren tiger]

Hi everyone I'm new to DND nice to see an active chat

[vale sage]

Same

[raw ocean]

Promised the wizard to teach all types of magic to everyone

[frigid plover]

Ok so maybe no domt

[raw ocean]

• my characters already an emperor and immortal

[old sluice]

Oh. Of course. Don't worry about it. If the players loot it, they'll decide if they use it or not

[stuck saddle]

They messed up artifcer for the 2nd time COEM ON

[umbral girder]

Then why have a bad guy at all for the players to face if it is a problem that handles itself?

[frigid plover]

Just forget i said anything

[knotty basin]

I’m more concerned about the enemies wishing for the party to instantly die

[old sluice]

All types? Okay so what you need is a druid grove, a wizarding course, a bard's theater, and... Well clerical magic can't really be taught at a school.

[old sluice]

You know those types of wishes are supposed to be monkey pawed right?

So back to it. Warlock, same, can't be taught at a school. Sorcerer, same.

So you want a wizard college and a druidic grove

[errant sphinx]

can you ride a horse in dnd?

[umbral girder]

Yes

[old sluice]

So yep. Make a permanent Mighty Fortress, a permanent Temple of the Gods, get a Hallow spell, add a druid grove somewhere

[umbral girder]

Mounts are in the Player’s Handbook

[old sluice]

You're level 17. So you can use wish to duplicate all those.

[umbral girder]

There are also some spells like Find Steed too

[night reef]

Is anyone dm'ing right now?

[raw ocean]

I have a ruby weave gem too so I can just grab any spell in every class list too so perfect

[frigid plover]

Alot of people prbly

[night reef]

Then who do I know to talk to?

[old sluice]

A what?

[raw ocean]

Legendary item

[frigid plover]

#looking-for-players

[old sluice]

Oh yeah. From Fizban

[umbral girder]

This is not the channel to try and join a game.
#find-a-game is where you go

[raw ocean]

When you finish a long rest, choose a spell from any class list.

[old sluice]

I'd still recommend using Wish to duplicate. Mighty Fortress and Temple of the Gods have high cost material components

Anyways, follow that method, your school will be built in a year at zero cost.

[steep solstice]

hey everyone, i am new to dnd, where do i start and what should i do to play

[raw ocean]

DM said once we use our wish spell we can't use it again :/

[old sluice]

What

[raw ocean]

Yeah.

[harsh hinge]

Check the pins in #dnd-newcomers!

[old sluice]

That... Okay yeah then you're screwed

[frigid plover]

Theres a chance of that happening normally

[raw ocean]

It's fine, either way we have a big of infinite gold

[It's all types of gold including gold coins]

so we do have to use downtime to sort through it to get registered currency

[old sluice]

I'm sorry, a bag of infinite gold?

[raw ocean]

Mhm

Got it from a wish spell

[fiery lion]

guys would a cleric warforge work?

[fiery nimbus]

Yay i get to make a 8 level character in a campaign that is guaranteed to go to level 20

[raw ocean]

Said every D&D player ever

[umbral girder]

Sure go for it

[raw ocean]

0.1% chance of the campaign getting that far ;(

[fiery nimbus]

I did go 4-20 with this DM already

[fiery lion]

bttle cats yay

[raw ocean]

Cat god shall forsake us

[steep solstice]

what race should i pick for a first time player ? personally i really like the dragonborn because i have been playing a lot of skyrim and would like to play as my character. what is the best race for a beginner like me. i would really appre

[knotty basin]

Just pick your favorite

[fiery lion]

damn i cant use stickers in this server

[fiery lion]

[old sluice]

The Skyrim dragonborn and the D&D only have the name in common

[knotty basin]

In curse of strahd we’ve had 7 PC deaths so far. We just made it out of the death house 😭

[raw ocean]

Homebrew "God slayer" race

[vapid berry]

Oof

[raw ocean]

trust every DM will love it!

[steep solstice]

maybe god slayer is a bit too much

[knotty basin]

He is joking

[steep solstice]

oh, didnt know that

[red thunder]

hot take: there should be more information on the elemental planes. like the plane of ice or lightning or ooze, or even the positive or negative planes

i'd just like more variety from those para and quasi elemental planes than just mephits lol

[barren tiger]

A alchemist artificer bard lamo

[hot reef]

Pick whichever speaks to you the most
(And avoid races that don’t fit in the setting, but Dragonborns fit in most)

[vale sage]

Am I still a fighter

[barren tiger]

I started watching DND games from last year and I havent played yet this game is so intriguing !!!!!

[fiery lion]

ok warforge cleric. Dude was made in hell, first of his desgin, in which his goal was to bring hell towards the surface. He malfunctions and is found by priests. When he is brought back to life he has no memories of his objective so he became a cleric since he had nothing else. However he still fights with an internal instinct to destroy despite not knowing why.

[vale sage]

What's a cleric

[rugged hawk]

A religious nutjob who pushes their faith on innocent bystanders

[fiery lion]

bruuhhhhh

[vale sage]

Ok

[hollow stone]

in game? medic.
in life? high ranking official of a church

[vale sage]

Ok

[minor cargo]

Oh there's a command. Like ?new cleric?

[hollow stone]

i think they're just below bishops?

[fiery lion]

like a preist in real life but umlike real life they have holy power. They basically can heal people thats their whole thing

[vale sage]

Thanks

[fiery lion]

anyways i hope i cooked

[steep solstice]

is there place for me to build my character ?

[fiery lion]

dnd beyond

its kinda annoying sometimes escpially around hombrew but its still pretty good

[meager fractal]

Is forge of the artificer out yet?

[delicate owl]

If you have master tier and preordered it, it's in Early Access yes

[knotty pasture]

Clerics are the stereotypical faith based caster class

[glass granite]

They get their power from their faith, ye

[vale sage]

Can I be sorcerer

[knotty pasture]

Yes

Impress your teammates with your natural talent in magic like a nepo baby

[vale sage]

Ok

[rugged hawk]

from their delusions*

[delicate roost]

Is there a place on the discord to report problems with dnd beyond?

Already found an oopsie with the artificer, one of the magical item plans isnt appearing on the drop down list

[rugged hawk]

All suggestions go in the suspiciously marked 'Suggestion Trash Bin'

[viscid violet]

I want to be a fighter

[harsh hinge]

#ddb-feedback is it!

[vale sage]

I just made my character on d&d beyond can we start a campaign

[crimson gulch]

It's probobly not going to work for the first two weeks while it's in preorder right now

[vale sage]

Is there a dungeon master who wants to start

[timid anvil]

Check out #find-a-game. It has instructions on how you can find a game here on the server :)

[vale sage]

Ok

[past blaze]

I can't quite put my finger on it but the cover for Forge of the Artificer gives me an AI-gen hunch.

and the calipers too, just the amount of calipers? And they seem weird and inconsistent.

[knotty basin]

It’s just blurry and low res

I doubt it’s ai

Why would wizards of the coast risk using AI for artwork? It would be a major publicity issue if someone found out

[sonic quiver]

The artist for the Eberron cover is Michael Broussard, as credited here.

Our statement on the use of genAI can be found here.

I'd like to remind folks to refrain from making baseless accusations, as they hurt the entire artist community and are often false.

[past blaze]

I see

I just don't understand why that many sets of calipers

[deep rivet]

you can never have too many

[hidden spindle]

I have one set of calipers. Could always use more

[timid anvil]

You never know when you have to cast animate object for an army of pinchers

[sonic quiver]

someone keeps stealing his calipers

[glass granite]

Certainly ain’t me, I got none

[rugged hawk]

Eh, that's what the Bag of Holding (Zombie Crab Swarm) is for

[hot reef]

A lot of fantasy AI art is trained on the art style commonly used by D&D and MtG, that’s probably why

[past blaze]

That... actually seems like it explains why I had that feeling.

[knotty basin]

What happened to undyingnoob?

Did they leave?

[rugged hawk]

Clearly not undying, then

[buoyant oar]

They are deadnoob now

Rest in peace 🕊️

[rugged hawk]

You misspelled pieces

[past blaze]

Seems they have a message ~8 hours ago and still have this server as a mutual server

[knotty basin]

They’re not on the mod list, but they still show up as a moderator

[dense flax]

I feel sorry for the preals of power

[fiery nimbus]

just ping them

[past blaze]

they're offline

[knotty basin]

I didn’t know it worked like that

[timid anvil]

Even we mods aren't here 24/7 ;)

[knotty basin]

I think they might actually kill me if I do that

[raven marsh]

how do you put a thing out saying your looking for players

[harsh hinge]

The instructions are in #find-a-game.

[past blaze]

yeah normally discord shows offline separately to all the other roles - anything but offline shows up, like the ones on do not disturb (almost did that as DND but that'd be confusing ) or idle

[stiff yoke]

You walk in public with a sign in your hand

[rugged hawk]

A sign that says NO MORE SIGNS

Then you bludgeon anyone who questions it with said sign.

[stiff yoke]

I like the way you think

[past blaze]

I don't think that's what people mean when they say "give me a sign"

[rugged hawk]

They literally asked for it

[rugged hawk]

I mean, if you're that upset with my policy, I'm also cool with the FIRMLY GRASP IT method of giving them a sign

[kind bramble]

Something tells me my dm doesn't like my rogue xD i keep disabling every trap he had in this vault that by the last one im like "that's a 21" and the dm was just "of course it is"

[fiery nimbus]

So, if you are playing a summoner and are Dhympir, you can bite your own summon to regain hp, right?

[rugged hawk]

DM clearly didn't think to just change the lock DCs

[inner silo]

What are the best weapons for a thief rogue?

[kind bramble]

He made em as usual and plays fair

[rugged hawk]

Technically? Yes. Should you? Probably not, some types of summons will take offense to that and turn on you, I think.

[glass granite]

Melee or ranged

[inner silo]

Both

[fiery nimbus]

I am a Demon Summoner, who cares what the Demons think

they would have eaten me too if given chance

[west pond]

how do people feel about this take?

martials should be able to do significently more damage than casters in fights, given

• martials are usually worse outside of a fight than casters are (rouge is the exception to some extent, but it still applies)

• casters can kinda conceptually do things that martials just can't (a barberian could theoretically be given a feature to let them make an aoe frighten effect, whereas a wizard could just cast wall of force and win outright that way)

• melee martials specifically often sacrifice a decent amount of defence in order to do thier damage, and it's more easily countered (if your using a two handed weapon for good damage, that usually means you aren't using a shield unless your running around on a horse with a lance or something, also, one of the easiest ways to counter melee pc's is to just give something wings. something common enough to where it could almost happen on accident)

[sleek cloud]

Shortsword and dagger dual wield for melee, Shortbow or hand crossbow for ranged

[rugged hawk]

Oh, if you're harming demons, that's totally fine, who cares if demons suffer?

[inner silo]

2014 btw

[sleek cloud]

Oh

[raven marsh]

i'm genuinely confused

[glass granite]

Hand crossbow, dagger, shortsword

[inner silo]

A single hand crossbow?

[inner silo]

All in a dual wield?

[glass granite]

Hi genuine confused I’m Nugget

[sleek cloud]

2014 is probably just do light crossbow

[raven marsh]

bro

[inner silo]

Alrighty

[sleek cloud]

Or still a Shortbow

[inner silo]

I think shortbow has cooler flavour

[west pond]

my understanding is they do slightly more damage if you take very specific min-maxxed builds, but unless your really optimizing the hell out of them thier usually equal to what a spellcaster could do. + spellcasters get social/out of combat spells, CC spells, all that good stuff

[knotty basin]

No, why play casters if martial were just better

[stiff yoke]

You see, you shoot the daggers with the crossbow

[inner silo]

Martials should be able to do more in and out of fights, not so much more damage as focusing on damage with martials wouldn't fix their biggest problem of not having as many out of combat options

[glass granite]

No: casters need to expened a resource to basically even function, and balancing these powerful resources is a pivotal part of their gameplay. If they do less damage even with these valuable resources, they’re locked to purely utility, pretty much. Additionally, your consideration fails to account for ranged martials, which don’t need to expose themselves in melee.

The martial-caster disparity is much smaller in 2024, and the biggest differences can really only be seen when things are optimised

[old sluice]

Ok so:

1. Martials already do more damage than casters in a fight, if both are not using resources. The difference is that casters need to burn through their resources to match or exceed martial damage.
2. That depends. Generally the martials are often granted more tool proficiencies and are just as capable outside fights. But it is true that spells change things. Though once again: Spells use spell slots, martial abilities do not normally require a resource.
3. There is no such thing as a "melee martial countered by wings". All martials should also carry a ranged weapon

All in all, the problems you are raising come from resource management

The game is balanced normally this way: Martials are consistent, casters are not.

Now should this balance be tweaked a bit? Yeah.

Maybe damage cantrips should be scaled down a bit, sure. But otherwise it works fine

[rugged hawk]

Damage cantrips are largely worse off than ranged generalists

[inner silo]

Ngl halfcasters are lowkey the best

Paladins are very thematic
Rangers are incredibly versatile
Artificers are just goated

[lean wigeon]

i think the greater issue comes from the fact that martials are boring one-trick ponies who are good at one thing and one thing only which is single target damage. for a game about resource management the resources martials have to manage are incredibly boring and inflexible compared to spell slots

their damage is like
fine
but just doing damage is boring

[rugged hawk]

Some people don't like extra micromanagement. Sometimes hitting things really hard a dozen times a round is enough.

[old sluice]

Depends on the martials. Paladins, monks and rangers are anything but one-trick ponies

[glass granite]

Monk mentioned (me happy)

[inner silo]

Paladins and rangers are halfcasters

[glass granite]

Rogues are also fairly versatile

[old sluice]

But it's true that barbarian, rogue and fighter, to a lesser extent, suffer from that. Fighter gets to mitigate it due to the subclasses

[old sluice]

Yes. And martials. Those are not mutually exclusive

[inner silo]

They are also spellcasters though

[glass granite]

I feel like fighter’s focus on fundamentals bonk as hard as possible is kinda their class identity

And barbarians is bonk hard, die not easy

[old sluice]

Now to solve the "only good at single target damage" thing, I would offer to introduce the cleaving optional rule. It makes melee people, especially barbarians, happy

[inner silo]

Imo fighters should get more abilities around swapping weapons midfight and multiple fightingstyles and ability to apply different traits to different weapons maybe even

[old sluice]

More of a barbarian thing. In principle, you are right, but the subclasses of the fighter can change the gameplay wildly

While all barbarians fundamentally play the same, an arcane archer, an echo knight and a battle master are very different beasts

[glass granite]

They…do.
Though the fighting style thing is only champion, they can give weapon masteries to different weapons.

[glass granite]

True, I concede

[west pond]

• In terms of raw damage numbers, sure, but take rey of frustration Vs a long bow, the extra damage from your Dex is nice, but Rey of frost gets the extra crowd control to compensate, so honestly especially at lower levels I'd say it kinda comes out in the wash

• Maybe this is just the table I'm in but I rarely if ever see tool proficiencies come up unless someone wants to make magic items, which, if memory serves, requires you to be a Spellcaster

• They aren't completely countered in the sense that they can still do Something, but that something is still a little less than what they would typically do, even a wizard doesn't nessicerily fear getting into melee assuming they have a decent number of save spells and a respectable AC. This is a problem Spellcasters really don't face that often by comparison (Say they got half plate or Thier a blade singer or something)

[inner silo]

Fighters also get more feats right?

[glass granite]

Yup!

[west pond]

I mean, spells like web, sleet storm, fireball, shield, or even grease are all fairy consistent. Are Thier inconsistent spells like say hypnotic pattern? Sure, but those typically are a little more powerful to compensate, or Thier inconsistency is a deliberate part of the spells balancing (I'm looking at you disintegrate)

[inner silo]

Ah then just give them 2 fightingstyles in base so they can use more weapon types effectively. Like swapping between gwf and dueling or dueling and twf

Even thrown weapon fighting/archery and twf/gwf

[glass granite]

My issue with that is that dnd kinda favours specialising, so investing your resources to be good at one thing is usually favoured

[glass granite]

All of those consume valuable spell slots

[inner silo]

They specialise in using weapons that's their whole thing. Why not let them use many different weapons?

[glass granite]

They do

[old sluice]

I don't think you understood what I meant by consistency. Martials are consistent in the sense that they can keep doing the same thing throughout the day without losing resources. Casters cannot

[inner silo]

Their fighting style locks them into 1 kind of weapons though

[glass granite]

They get full weapon proficiency, more weapon masteries and the ability to swap masteries on weapons

[old sluice]

The spells are consistent. But casters are not. Casters always need their resources to do stuff. The martials can, in theory, get through a tough adventuring day and have all their resources for the final fight

[glass granite]

Plus, if they take blindsight or defence, that doesn’t even change their weapon preference

[lean wigeon]

the insistence of people to gate supernatural and extraordinary feats behind magic doesn't help either. for some reason people want games where you have hydrogen bomb in the same party as coughing baby

[vale sage]

I have the next 5 days off from school. i am going to give my players the most peak session they’ve ever seen

[glass granite]

Go crazy!

[west pond]

I don't disagree that martials should get more out of combat options, but even Thier in combat ones are fairly underwhelming imo.

This is why I think they should be primarily focused on combat for the most part, because I could see the barbarian getting some frightening effects, or the rouge getting some charm effects which would have secondary uses outside of combat, but again, the wizard is in the corner hopping between planes, summoning an army of elementals to protect the party, things martials are conceptually incapable of for the most part (Maybe monk could kinda do that, but not as much imo)

[inner silo]

Still could be good maybe?

[glass granite]

Sure

[inner silo]

A combat focused class isn't a very good idea imo

[old sluice]

I'm sorry, how does the wizard "summon an army of elementals to protect the party" exactly?

[glass granite]

Thing is, I see most players taking a specialisation and then Defence

[inner silo]

You could make some more restrictions or make using different fighting styles more rewarding perhaps but yeah I've never played fighter so idk

[glass granite]

Also, in game, how do you expect for someone dropping a meteor swarm on someone doing less damage than a guy stabbing someone a bunch

[glass granite]

Maybe. I do agree with you that more fighting styles would be nice, I just think there’s some tweaking to be done.

[inner silo]

Yeah definitely

[inner silo]

I mean, the whole idea of reworking martials has been making them more then just a "guy with sword" since to a lot of people that sounds underwhelming compared to "reality bender about to create things out of thin air, control time and fate theirselves"I

[west pond]

I mean sure, but let's assume we're talking about a 6th level wizard for a moment, I've got 3 3rd level spell slots, 4 2nd level ones, and 4 1sts, with 3 levels work of spell slots I could put anywhere assuming a single short rest. If you take the right spells (Honestly just sleet storm/hypnotic pattern +web most of the time) those 3rd and 2nd level spell slots can either just win you fights outright or heavily screw them in your favour, so that's 5-7 depending on your luck with the saves of those spells, and you still got arcane recovery to consider.

How many parties consistently go through that many fights?

[glass granite]

Spellcasters also consume spells outside of fights too

[old sluice]

We do. Never less than 5 fights during an adventuring day. Often more than 8.

[west pond]

I mean I think it could be fun so long as they had Some way to contribute outside of a fight too. It doesn't have to be bard/wizard levels of utility but just something to consistently help

[old sluice]

All while being generally either outnumbered or outmatched.

Well, always outnumbered. Sometimes outnumbered and outmatched

[west pond]

Then honestly I'd like to hear more about that, because the games I've played go 4-6 fights tops. Occasionally 8 but usually the DM let's us know it's gonna be a hard day beforehand if that happens

[inner silo]

Rogues are skill monkeys, barbarians have multiple abilities with utility around rage. For fighters I'd give them tool proficiencies i think

[stray atlas]

ok so bit of an odd question

[glass granite]

Like, every class except arguably fighter and maybe monk has a fair bit of out of combat stuff.
(Barbs get primal knowledge so I count it)

[stray atlas]

which god has the highest strength?

[inner silo]

Dam you get so many fights? I don't get more then 2/3

[old sluice]

How does the DM let you know? Your characters can't see the future, can they?

[inner silo]

My favourite god

[west pond]

I mean fair, but if we're talking about the barbarian for a moment, you don't get too many rages back on a short rest so you don't want to use too many out of combat even if you had the opportunity, and for monk it really depends on the subclass (Shadow monk's kinda the goat here with pass without trace and dark vision for anyone who doesn't have it effectively on a short rest)

[scenic zinc]

Communication above board is perfectly fine to do

You're all playing a game together.

[inner silo]

What? A limited utility and fighting resource you need to manage and keep in mind? I can't believe it

[glass granite]

Well, yeah, barbarian is a combat focused class. But they have the option to have utility if they need it.

[glass granite]

Sounds oddly familiar /s

[inner silo]

I also find it familiar

[lean wigeon]

i think if we want PCs to be on equal footing with each other then one of these fantasies has to go

like, if we expect PCs to be doing stuff like create meteor swarms and conjure beings from different planes then i don't think "hit with stick goodly" should be a player option

[old sluice]

So just on top of my head, our descent into a Sharite temple:
First fight, bunch of cloakers and other darkness themed predatory monsters
Second fight, a group of cultists
Third fight, another group of elite cultists who came to check the noise
Fourth fight, a group of elite shadows summoned by the cultists
Fifth fight, an adventurer we met who was a prisoner but we realised was under mind control, she opened a trap door and let out a group of yugoloths from the jails
Sixth fight, the chief of the local templars and other defenders
Seventh, the head of the church, a vampire, and her spawn
Eighth fight, the shadow dragon kept in a room for magical rituals

[west pond]

Not exactly, but usually it's things like the parties about to go after the evil vampire in Thier castle in the woods and some NPC let's us know of this mini boss we'll probably have to deal with along the way, not to mention all the vampire spawn at Thier command and maybe the odd charmed Spellcaster or two and you can kinda get the picture

(This isn't necessarily something we deal with at 6th level, just an example for a threat the DM may consider especially hard for saying levels 8-10)

[inner silo]

Perhaps it's because we're only 3rd level that we get so little

[west pond]

Yea, and I'm saying since Thier primarily a combat class, Thier damage should be increased to compensate given Thier kinda underpowered compared to casters even in combat, nevermind outside of it

[old sluice]

There is no reason why 3rd level characters should have fewer encounters.

Ok, Luna? You need to disable that autocorrect on your phone that changes words for "Thier"

[west pond]

I mean, if it's like 8 encounters and Thier all like 1 goblin that's kinda boring imo.

I'm exaggerating here, but you get my point

[old sluice]

It's not a huge deal, but I'm having some trouble following

[inner silo]

Idk. Last session all we encountered was a bunch of ice skeletons who downed two of us and a drake fighter with an ice dragon

[stuck saddle]

LOL

[inner silo]

Essentially a couple big fights>a lot of smaller fights

[old sluice]

Yeah I got that

[inner silo]

Plus you also need time for other encounters like social and exploration which we get a bunch of

[stuck saddle]

Casters are equally as or more consistent then martials I think

[west pond]

Same for the fighter and monk tbh

[inner silo]

Another caster fanboy

[lean wigeon]

i also think designing classes to be predominantly C/OOC is just bad, because if C/OOC comes up and the player took a class that doesn't have many vectors for interacting with C/OOC then that player barely gets to interact with the scene

[stuck saddle]

Most of my characters are barbarians actually

[clear lark]

If I am playing a melee character I am expecting at least three fights in a three to four session sitting. I would die if I had to sit for three hours with one fight or worse none.

[inner silo]

Dam

[old sluice]

Not what consistency means in this context

[stuck saddle]

Barbarian is really fun but the designers forgot to give it actual features after 9th level closer to after 5th level actually

[west pond]

I mean Thier kinda right tho. Unless your adventuring days are incredibly long (And even then, you need a lot of short rests or the martials suffer too, and warlocks for example love tons of short rests)

[vapid berry]

So I have a campaign question what's the most interesting setting you've been in?

[stuck saddle]

I really appreciate world tree barbarians unique options not being so limited compared to every other martial subclass

[old sluice]

Yeah but warlocks are kinda like the martials of casters

[stuck saddle]

Yeah but they have invocations so

[inner silo]

Idk, haven't gotten that far so can't say much but so far our fighter has been doing pretty well. Also WAY more access to magical items most likely

[clear lark]

Are they. I thought that was Clerics

[stuck saddle]

It’s a level of customization I WISH martials could get like seriously

[old sluice]

In the sense that their resource management and the way they approach an adventuring day is more similar to the way fighters, rogues and monks do

[west pond]

Wouldn't that be half casters? Ranger? Paladin? Artificer?

[stuck saddle]

I mean either way I think usually the Caster vs martial utility discussion doesn’t matter that often as I imagine dms wouldn’t throw stuff at players they literally can’t like achieve

[inner silo]

I'm soon to play rogue so ig I'll see as so far only played casters

[stuck saddle]

Every problem should have a solution so a dm won’t like lock players out of something cuz they don’t have a spell lol

[old sluice]

Well you should lock players out of some things. Ain't no way a fifth level party will stop Tiamat from burning the city

[lean wigeon]

probably not, yeah
but when it matters, it sucks
literally no one in existence has ever said "oh boy im sure glad that i don't have access to spellcasting for this particular encounter"

[west pond]

No, but it also can really limit what the DM can throw at you, which limits Thier storytelling.

Hard to throw a villain at the party who specializes in charming people when everyone's playing martials and thus will likely fail the wis saves (Both in and potentially out of combat, assuming the players trust the DM enough to do that) for example

[stuck saddle]

There’s a solution to that problem at 5th level and it’s running away and not dying

[old sluice]

Fair

[stuck saddle]

You’re correct but this isn’t caster or martial dependent the whole party can just have awful wis saves

[old sluice]

Uh... Monks. Elves. If you've got an elf monk, that villain is likely toast

[stuck saddle]

Unlike casters though most 2024 martials have mage slayer sooooooooooooo

[rugged hawk]

Well yeah, they could probably at best help evacuate the city, perhaps build some defenses, maybe serve as hired hands in the local armies, but yeah, they sure ain't the heroes the city needs to challenge TIAMAT.

[stuck saddle]

Berserker barb is immune to charmed and frightened at 6th level too

[west pond]

Honestly if your party actively runs towards tiamat at level 5 and Wins I'd be genuinely impressed. If they lose (Far more likely) then it's not really your fault given the literally tried to fight a god as some dumb smchucks

[old sluice]

I forgot that, but yes, that too

[stuck saddle]

ALSO there is a very important topic I’d like to discuss rn

[west pond]

With monks, fair, but chances are one person isn't going to save the entire party

As for elves getting advantage, that only goes so far if your wisdom score is anything from 8 to 12

[stuck saddle]

2024 artifcer is a lot worse then then 2014

[west pond]

Like it works, but it's still fairly restrictive

[stuck saddle]

I think the new artifcer book is actually not that good unfortunately in terms of player options I’m really disappointed but Artifcer isn’t the only new class we’re getting so all hope isn’t lost

[clear lark]

Only when Raging.

[stuck saddle]

Psion looks a lot more interesting then what we got with artifcer, in the end I think I’ll just play 2014 artifcer with 2024 subclasses & content

[clear lark]

Monks can be neutralize Frightened and Charmed at the end of their turn

[old sluice]

Also, that's a false opposition. Sorcerers and bards have poor wisdom saves too.

[west pond]

Honestly I never understood why charm+ frieghten immunity while raged wasn't just a base barb feature

[old sluice]

Casters don't have a better wisdom save than martials, when taken as a group

[stuck saddle]

I think immunity against atleast frightened is fair

[woven flint]

You folks don't pump wisdom on your martials? 🤔

[stuck saddle]

I think the main thing casters have over martials is AOE and CC and it’s why they’re usually more consistent

[west pond]

Sure, but clerics, druids, and even warlocks and wizards don't. Plus some sorcerer subclasses get features that actively helps against this. You still aren't as good against it as the cleric but you aren't totally helpless

[stuck saddle]

Mage slayer boo 👻

[old sluice]

In fact, save for cleric and druid, I'd say the spellcasters are in more danger from enchanters than the martials

[inner silo]

What are some cool magic items to consider as a thief rogue?

[woven flint]

Mage Slayer Enjoyers when they have to make more than one Mental save per long rest (they're in shambles)

[stuck saddle]

It’s per short rest actually

[inner silo]

And then there's strength saves

[west pond]

Oh? Thought it was per long rest

[stuck saddle]

just use mage slayer on like the big save of that fight and you’re good

[old sluice]

In which the casters are generally incompetent. But to be fair, the consequences of failing one are not usually dire

[woven flint]

I retract my statement

Mage Slayer Enjoyers when they use their pseudo legendary resistance too early and have to deal with the consequences of their actions (they died)

[stuck saddle]

Yeah mage slayer is amazing you impose disadvantage on concentration checks, +1 to dex or strength and legendary resistance to cha/int/wis saves per short rest

[west pond]

Strength saves really don't do much. You'll get pushed around a bit, maybe knocked prone. It's not that scary

[inner silo]

Depends on which one it is. If it's being pushed 100 feet could be scary

[stuck saddle]

It depends on the monster but SPELL wise strength saves are usually meh

[west pond]

Doesn't this carry over to monsters too for the most part?

[old sluice]

True. But less deadly (unless it throws you off a cliff)

[inner silo]

I'm making strength saves scary in my game just to support strength builds

[rough basalt]

Restrains are the main danger with strength saves

[inner silo]

Also true. But it's not as weak as some people say

[stuck saddle]

I don’t have any examples but im just imagining that some monsters may force a strength save and if you fail they eat you or something that seems pretty bad

[inner silo]

Get grappled by the big biffy undead barbarian

[cinder temple]

took a dive at the new wizard subclass :D

[old sluice]

Failing a con save can stun you or poison you. Failing a dex save is generally just taking a lot of damage. Failing a charisma save is generally getting banished. Failing an int save is believing in an illusion. Failing in wisdom is often being charmed, sometimes even dominated. But failing strength is just being pushed away or restrained. It sucks, sure, but I'd take that over most of the other options

[inner silo]

What is it?

[cinder temple]

The Bladesingers

[west pond]

I mean if we're talking about casters being worse off than martials in terms of wise saves Slimmy I kinda refer back to this

Wizards and warlocks still get wis save proficiency after all

[old sluice]

Yes. That compensates for their often abysmal wisdom score

[inner silo]

That's why i think strength save abilities for enemies should be buffed or just the strength stat in general

[stuck saddle]

I will say one very important thing about the divide between the two

[west pond]

Who says you have to dump wisdom on a wizard/warlock?

[stuck saddle]

Is the amount of options casters and martials compared to each other get that infuriate

[old sluice]

Nobody. But wisdom is really not a priority

[west pond]

Like I'm not saying have it as your main stat but having a +1 to it isn't too unreasonable

[stuck saddle]

And also human+lucky exists

You can start at level 1 and have lucky and heroic inspiration that helps a lot against saves

[west pond]

You do realise how debilitating wisdom saves are right? Given how common they are as well

Like Thier are a fair few monsters which will just straight up mind control you for example

[woven flint]

Don't forget having your brain eaten for int saves too :3

[west pond]

Yea, into saves are far less common but typically harsher when they do come up

[stuck saddle]

Psychic lance boom

[old sluice]

Yes. But wisdom is still not the priority for wizards and warlocks

[woven flint]

SYNAPTIC STATIC!!!!!!

[clear lark]

Yep especially at low levels against Sleep and Hold person

[stuck saddle]

Guys real quick psychic lance or banishment what’s BETTER!!!!

[woven flint]

Murder

[glass granite]

Yes.
Plus murder

[west pond]

Still, like I said, a +1/2 before proficient isn't unreasonable, that's still enough to make sure you aren't totally helpless most of the time

[clear lark]

Banishment just sends them to a demi plane for short period, right? Nothing awful

[woven flint]

Yup

[old sluice]

A -1 is enough to make sure you aren't totally helpless most of the time

[woven flint]

Banishment is relatively tame for as awful as it sounds lol

[old sluice]

That is a low bar to clear

[old sluice]

Depends on the plane you're on when it's cast and the plane you're from

[west pond]

No? Not at least by level 6 where the DCs typically start getting to 16 ish, give or take

[stuck saddle]

Not really it deletes a mob from a fight for 10 rounds or something basically

[west pond]

If that's the monsters main gimick

[stuck saddle]

i mean if I got banished I’d be terrified compared to psychic lance where I’d die immediately so it’s less bad

[old sluice]

If that is the monster's gimmick, sure. But really, it's no big deal. Monster can't target what it can't see. Just get in cover

[woven flint]

@stuck saddle
It was in relation to what was asked here

That's why I'm saying it's more tame than it sounds
You're not sending someone to hell or anything

[stuck saddle]

Yeah I gave my answer both to that and what I’d say mechanically

[old sluice]

If your adventure takes place in, say, the feywilds, banishment is effectively an instakill

[stuck saddle]

Explain

[old sluice]

Banishment sends you back to your plane of origin. In theory the material.

You are essentially out of the game, first off.

[west pond]

Unless we're talking full cover which may or may not be available depending on the circumstances, that's not always possible, plus if we're talking about something that does it based off sound (For example your DM chucks a bard at you) it kinda does nothing most of the time.

Finding cover is still a good strategy, just not really a substitute for good mental defences

[old sluice]

But there's a good chance it kills you.

[woven flint]

Why would it kill you? 🤔

[stuck saddle]

Oh it’s an instant kill to the players?

[old sluice]

It drops you in a random place in the material plane. You know. The place with space, where you can't breathe. Even if you are on a planet, you could find yourself at cloud level and fall to your death. Or under the seas and drown

[eager marsh]

going to your home plane isnt an instant kill. also 2024 banishment doesnt work on humanoids anymore

[eager marsh]

That's not how that works

[woven flint]

Okay, well, that's a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

[old sluice]

Why?

[eager marsh]

Random place of DM decision. And as I said, new banishment wont work on a humanoid

[west pond]

If the spell could put you in a dangerous situation through that it would likely specify in the description for one

[old sluice]

True, new one won't work, I'm thinking 2014

[buoyant oar]

Banishment is meant for outsiders. Always has been.

[clear lark]

It does work on all creatures, but it has a special effect on Aberration, Celestials, Elements, Fey and Fiends.

[old sluice]

I do not know for whom it is meant, all I know is that, in 2014, it works just as well on everyone

[eager marsh]

Iy's fairly obvious I'm refering to teh secondary effect as was Slimmy

It doesn't kill people automatically regardless. If teh players are not currently on the material plane, it can banish them fully there again but it wont just drop them in deep space

[old sluice]

Automatically, no. But still, there's a good chance it could put you in mortal danger

[clear lark]

"Outsiders" I haven't heard that in awhile

[buoyant oar]

Even the 2014 version doesn't specify random location.

[woven flint]

Doesn't Banishment also have a clause to where the creature can't be put anywhere harmful?

[buoyant oar]

Only the demiplane is called out as harmless

[eager marsh]

there is no chance unless the DM decides to be cruel

the temporary demiplane isnt whats being discussed

[old sluice]

Hm. It does depend on the DM actually.

[clear lark]

Now Bansihsment Smite just sends everyone to a demiplane, regardless what their origin is

[old sluice]

Would be funny if you found yourself, like, on the surface of the sun.

Or of a star.

[woven flint]

That would also be...
Kind of stupid as well?

You're returned directly to your home plane, why would you end up in space?

[clear lark]

In the Epic Rulebook (3.5?) They had an Epic Spell that was a banishment to hell.

[buoyant oar]

A game with that high degree of random lethality needs a multiple day long session zero

[rugged hawk]

Space is part of your home plane

[woven flint]

I mean yeahhhh...
But I dunno..

It's Banishment! Not Execution!
That's my opinion.

[old sluice]

Because space is part of your home plane?

[rugged hawk]

Congrats, you arrived...in space... on a Mindflayer's spelljammer. You're now in BG3

[buoyant oar]

Wild space is in a weird spot as its transitive between the prime and the astral

[old sluice]

It's actually most of your home plane

[rugged hawk]

Assumption that Banishment just sends the being back to whatever place they're most connected to on their home plane.

[old sluice]

You know what, I can accept that

[woven flint]

"If the target is an Aberration, a Celestial, an Elemental, a Fey, or a Fiend, the target doesn't return if the spell lasts for 1 minute. The target is instead transported to a random location on a plane (DM’s choice) associated with its creature type."

It does however...
Work with New Kalashtar and the Fey races

[old sluice]

... Hopefully you're not a space nerd

[old sluice]

Talking 2014 here

[inner silo]

What's a good class for a paladin bard and wizard party?

[buoyant oar]

Fighter

[woven flint]

Barbarian, extra muscle

[old sluice]

A monk could do quite well here.

[inner silo]

It's 2014 btw

[old sluice]

Actually it's almost the ideal conditions for a monk to thrive.

[glass granite]

Monk.
You can guess why I suggested that

[stuck saddle]

Whatever you want to play

[woven flint]

Monks can pretty much Thrive in any party though 🤔

[buoyant oar]

The fun part of the 2014 vs 2024 spells.

The thing is. The 2024 spell is supposed to supersede it if anything from the new books is used.

[old sluice]

From an optimization point of view... I'm looking at a party that lacks both dex and wis. So that feels like the environment where a monk fits perfectly

[stuck saddle]

Can you elaborate more? Also most content outside of the base 2024 book actually is mostly Meh-bad which is like LOL unfortunate

[old sluice]

Moreover, I'm looking at a party composed exclusively of long-rest classes, so a short rest one would be perfect

[inner silo]

Aren't 2014 monks bad?

[buoyant oar]

Like a 2014 cleric in a game with 2024 options would not be able to to take 2014 spiritual Weapon.

[old sluice]

No.

[stuck saddle]

Like most spells,feats even SOME subclasses are mehhhhhh

[glass granite]

They’re worse than 2024, but they ain’t bad

[old sluice]

Some subclasses are tragically bad

[inner silo]

Alrighty, then a monk will do

[stuck saddle]

Yeah agreed that change sucks you can’t combine spirit guardians and spiritual weapons

[inner silo]

Which ones? So i know which not to pick

[old sluice]

Avoid sun soul and four elements

[clear lark]

2014 Monks mostly suffered from not enough short rests to regain their Ki points

[woven flint]

Depends
2014 or 2024 rules?

[old sluice]

Don't overdo the stunning strike at the lower levels

[inner silo]

14

[old sluice]

Stay near your paladin friend.

[woven flint]

Mercy, Shadow and Open Hand are decent options

[buoyant oar]

Tbh that spell needed concentration. I am heavy against spells that are so useful it's dumb to not take them.

[inner silo]

What about kensei?

[glass granite]

Fun

[old sluice]

A well played kensei brings a lot of versatility but I think it requires some skill to be played well

[glass granite]

They do burn through ki fast

[inner silo]

Alrighty. I'll probably go with shadow or mercy then

[glacial quest]

yo quick question. during combat i know that you can take an action, a bonus action and a reaction. what are reactions?

[rugged hawk]

That's all fine and dandy until the paladin does a heelturn, breaks his oath, and you hear "DIVINE SMITE!" from behind you just a moment too late to react.

[old sluice]

If you're confident in your tactics, go with kensei. Otherwise, I'd recommend open hand

[clear lark]

I'm particularly fond of Warrior of Shadow. The Tattoo Monk and I think there's a Psi Monk being worked?

[glass granite]

Things you can do on other creature’s turns

[inner silo]

Is open hand the default like champion fighter?

[glacial quest]

what would be an example?

[woven flint]

The way its worded makes Agile parry work strangely you must attack with your weapon as an ATTACK ACTION to activate it

This doesn't count Bonus action or reaction strikes

[old sluice]

You could say that, though it's closer to the battlemaster

[glass granite]

An opportunity attack, which you can make when someone leaves your melee range

[stuck saddle]

Current monks in the UAs are a tattoo monk and drunken monk 2 as far as I know

[old sluice]

No. You must attack with an unarmed strike to get agile parry.

[inner silo]

I see

[glacial quest]

alright thanks 👍

[old sluice]

At fifth level, the method is attack with your weapon, then with an unarmed strike as your extra attack

[inner silo]

Ah, that actually sounds much better. I love battlemaster low-key

[woven flint]

Yeah.
With the attack ACTION

[old sluice]

Yes.

[woven flint]

It specifies action, not Bonus action strikes, and it's dumb

[old sluice]

Not sure it's dumb. I see the logic

One weapon attack, one unarmed strike as your action. Then decide for your bonus action. You could use it to dodge

[clear lark]

I think Battlemaster is also interesting. If I had never decided upon the Monk, that probably would have been my go to

[woven flint]

I think old monk is a bit too strange with weapons for my taste

Then again, I've always refused to use weapons even with 2024 Monks!

[old sluice]

For your first weapons as a kensei, go with longbow and something else. Kenseis are also some of the only builds that can make decent use out of whips and throwing darts

[woven flint]

I didn't become a Monk to wield weapons

I became one to Smack the GOOFY Outcha

[clear lark]

Weapons come in handy for monks, especially against monsters/objects that can be harmful if you touch them. In addition, I wouldn't want to turn down a +1, +2, +3 Magical weapon

[old sluice]

If you play kensei, be careful about one thing

You do not want the party to compete for loot. Make sure you pick weapons that your teammates don't use

You have a paladin, a bard and a wizard so that shouldn't be a big deal. If the paladin is using two-handed weapons, you should be fine

[slender mason]

new Artificer role icon jumpscared me

[woven flint]

Orang

[old sluice]

Truth is, even if the paladin is about sword and shield, it's fine.

Is the wizard planning on bladesinging? Or the bard on being melee?

[woven flint]

A Bladesinger, Valor Bard, Hexblade and War Cleric walk into a bar...

[old sluice]

You know... Add a kensei monk to it, you have a rather fun, thematic party of swordmasters.

The loot would be a nightmare

[valid geyser]

And none of them get martial prof by default

[woven flint]

Personally?
As A War Cleric, I'd prefer to use Hammers

I cast . .
BONK!!!!!!

[old sluice]

Maybe instead... A hexblade, a kensei, a Bladesinger, a sword bard and a paladin. And they constantly argue over whose technique is superior