#dnd-lore

1 messages · Page 89 of 1

calm crest
#

They are mages of Athas who don’t strive to hold nature in balance, instead ripping the magic directly from the land around them.

#

The first fifteen Defilers were trained by Rajaat the Warbringer, and they went on to become the Sorcerer-Kings after perpetrating centuries of genocide.

#

On Athas, Defiling is the default form of arcane magic, but its destructive effects make it a greatly feared tradition. Other than those who are formally trained under the authority of the Sorcerer-Kings, Defilers are outlawed.

#

Official lore-wise, Defiling doesn’t exist in any other setting. It is intrinsically Athasian.

#

Traditionally it is a learned art, like wizardry, not a spontaneous one, but it is easier to learn than Preserver magic (normal wizard magic).

merry rune
#

It seems like defiling is the only magic there. The "preservers" just do it carefully enough to allow regrowth.

#

In that setting, other wizard classes would simply not exist by lore, it reads.

#

It takes restraint and practice to not destroy the world around you when casting.

calm crest
#

Well, all Athasian arcane casters are either Defilers (progress faster but destroy the environment) or Preservers (progress normally and cause no environmental damage). Mages can have specializations (subclasses) in addition to this distinction.

merry rune
#

Are you sure preservers don't cause damage? To me it just seemed like they do it gently enough to not leave permanent damage.

dusty dust
#

So a defiler is not a sorcerer, as it’s learned and not ever innate, is that correct?

merry rune
#

Check the fandom wiki.

dusty dust
#

Just did

merry rune
#

It makes no sense to me.

#

If it is a sorcerer subclass?

dusty dust
#

Nothin on sorcerers

#

Only wizard. I might’ve been mislead and thought it was sorcerer subclass

merry rune
#

It says "sorcery is almost unheard of, though it has been noted to occur in dragon descended blabla"

calm crest
#

Sorcerers didn’t exist as a class when Preservers and Defilers were introduced. The 2024 Dark Sun UA makes Defilers a type of Sorcerer I guess because the Sorcerer-Kings happen to be called that. There’s no lore for the UA.

#

There’s also no dragons on Athas. Just The Dragon.

dusty dust
#

Damn. I’ll have to expand on the UA because that’s definitely what I was looking at

#

Was that Borys?

calm crest
#

Correct.

dusty dust
#

I can’t remember

#

I can. Never mind

merry rune
#

Draconic sorcerer is what they mean, right?

calm crest
#

There aren’t? The closest thing is the Dray.

merry rune
#

It's only in the Paizo version.

calm crest
#

There simply shouldn’t be Draconic Sorcerers there because there aren’t dragons.

merry rune
#

I don't know what paizo is.

calm crest
#

Ah. That’s not canon to D&D, then.

#

Paizo is Pathfinder.

merry rune
#

Oh I see

dusty dust
#

I know what I’m gonna tweak now. Thanks ya’ll

unkempt merlin
true patio
merry rune
#

It says they still draw it from plants and creatures.

true patio
#

If it's not in the wiki then whoever is in charge of the wiki has missed out on the coolest part of Athas lore

merry rune
#

That does sound very cool.

#

The wiki says preservers carefully draw magic from plants (or sometimes creatures).

true patio
#

This is correct but more powerful magics would require more life energy than the land could safely provide

#

So they compensate with their own.

merry rune
#

I believe it. It just says they are weaker because of their refusal to destroy.

tropic hull
#

Hello 👋 I hope this goes in here. I started playing a Kalashtar, I didn’t realise in building the backstory I’d have so much research lol.

I read a bit of Eberron and it suggests to utilise characters like Kalashtar that can bring the party into the dream through ritual.

But a Kalashtar does not dream which means they don’t enter dreams, and I can’t find anywhere how these align.

Happy to just be pointed in the right direction to help my research. Maybe I have just not read enough of the book.

I am guessing it’s on a page I have glossed over as I read it on my phone.

true patio
# merry rune I believe it. It just says they are weaker because of their refusal to destroy.

That they are. In fact most perservers don't survive long because their own practice kills them before they reach that Apthiosis stage. In fact the lore about their ascension is stated to be a wholely theoretical by the setting's creator as no one has managed it in the canon of the setting. It is possible but it just hasn't managed to be done, or at least if it has then it's happened so rarely that people just don't know about it. The same lore also says that an Apthiosis'd Preserver however is stronger than even a Sorcerer-King as they have the ability to just shut down a defiler's ability to take from the land.

true patio
#

This also makes them attuned to that place more innately than normal humans and allows them to guide those people through their own dreams, which is what you're talking about.

tropic hull
true patio
#

It is also important to note that a lot of modern Kalishtar are not "true" Kalishtar but rather their descendents since the race breeds true and makes new Kalishtar children but this does not mean a new Quori spirit is made. The existing spirit is simply now connected to two hosts through a now weaker connection.

solemn oar
#

whats a cool level 1-5 monster i can get my players to fight thats from the older editions

true patio
solemn oar
#

something unique and differently mainly to spice things up.

#

everyone knows your goblins, skeletons, bandits but i want something different

true patio
#

Well there's plenty of mashup animals similar to the famous Owlbear. For example the Gorillaelephant.

solemn oar
#

like i found out the first edition yin and yang energy monsters recently in lost caves of tashas daughter

solemn oar
true patio
#

It is exactly what it sounds like. Some wizard mashed together a gorilla and an elephant into one creature Shou Tucker style.

#

I'll send you some resources.

quick gate
#

Tymanther got destroyed in the new book. I don't remember who here said I was wrong, but seems I wasn't wrong at all

merry rune
#

The wiki doesn't have anything on that yet. Do you know the year DR?

austere harness
#

Anyone have any lore on lizardfolks? I wanna know more about them lol

merry rune
#

The vague info I got is that many live in swamps and jungles, worship gods most of the realms would consider evil and they eat humanoids.

thin zephyr
sturdy wyvern
merry rune
#

I read there was a war with Unther in just before 1500 so it must have still existed then.

fallow leaf
#

i heard there's a new kingdom of many arrows being formed as well

jagged apex
fallow leaf
#

that's fun

jagged apex
#

if you mean the new realms book, it does not even release until november 11th, so not sure how the heck you could know what is in that book, plus since it is not yet officially release to where people can actually check the source to see what is actually written, it is unwise to consider it canon

thin zephyr
jagged apex
thin zephyr
#

There are plenty of people on the server with access; I’m sure someone can fact check

jagged apex
# thin zephyr It’s already available on early release

yeah for paid members and some would not care for spoilers, just seems unwise to treat unreleased content as offical lore especially since there is the chance one could misinterpret the meaning such as previously someone did with the state of the many arrows tribe

#

also does not help they are not even specifying the source, just saying "the new book" when there are multiple new books, does not help at all

thin zephyr
#

Yeah, I also don’t think Tymanther is gone; pretty sure it’s on the Beadle and Grimm DM screen for this book

jagged apex
# austere harness Anyone have any lore on lizardfolks? I wanna know more about them lol

prior to that their lore from mordenkainen's presents monsters of the multiverse offered this setting agnostic lore alongside the player character option for the species "The saurian lizardfolk are thought by some sages to be distant cousins of dragonborn and kobolds. Despite their resemblance to those other scaled folk, however, lizardfolk are their own people and have lived on the worlds of the Material Plane since the worlds’ creation. Gifted by the gods with remarkable physical defenses and a mystical connection to the natural world, lizardfolk can survive with just their wits in situations that would be deadly for other folk. Because of that fact, many lizardfolk myths state that their people were placed by the gods in the Material Plane to guard its natural wonders.
Lizardfolk have colorful scales and exhibit a wide array of scale patterns. Their individual facial features are as varied as those of lizards." end quote

#

more detailed lore is likely gunna be setting specific, so it would depend on what setting

jagged apex
#

give the fact they are not specifying which book and they could potentially be misinterpreting something, i have 0 reason to believe Tymanther is suddenly gone, especially when neither books are publicly available unless you have a dnd beyond membership of a certain status

thin zephyr
jagged apex
#

well they have 2 separate names and 2 separate listings on the marketplace on dnd beyond, unlike the spelljammer and planescape releases for 5e, so far as i can tell they are two books simply releasing on the same date

thin zephyr
jagged apex
#

and last we heard of Tymanther they were engaged in a war in 1489 DR, and there is many ways a war can end even if Tymanther is defeated in the war they do not automatically just get annihilated, especially since you pointed out it is potentially on the cover of one of the new books, why depict something that does not exist anymore? that just don't make sense when trying to provide an updated map of the world or even just a portion of it

thin zephyr
#

It’s not on a cover, just on a 3rd party DM screen and most likely the Atlas of Faerun map available with preorder

jagged apex
#

plus usually when disputing lore with evidence, you cite your sources in some way, and since he did not give any link to any form of the info that cites the source and does not specify the source, why even consider it valid until someone can actually check and quote the info? you know like after the actual release

fallow leaf
#

its good to hear the forgotten realms books are giving us a twinge of lore for the new goliaths. I like the lore concept that they often live with giants and are often the intermediaries between the giants and the little folk.

jagged apex
#

might just be my opinion, but the point of the published continuity is the sources produced and sold by wizards of the coast since they own the license, and since the book it not even out properly, even if some have it early, it just seem unfair to count it as official lore until it out there in the wild so to speak

thin zephyr
fallow leaf
#

i think what made me a little uninterested in the 2024 goliaths was their lack of a place in the world. I didn't know if they were a rarity without a common culture like tieflings or if they had their own communities, so seeing that for FR at least, they settled with one (and I will likely assume it's not too different for other settings) it makes me at least a little interested in fleshing them out for games

jagged apex
# thin zephyr It is out properly? Pre-release is a valid time to talk about things; it wouldn’...

i know, but is kind of like spoilers at least in my mind, so it feels unfair to start acting as it is canon, especially when it is not available to the whole public and when the person saying it contains some sort of new lore does not even specify and just seems to care about being proven write despite previously the judgement was made based on actual available info before they were even available for early access

#

like i said it might just be cuz of the way i view it, and even if we are counting it, i'd preffer they actually quote the info and at least specify the source beyond "new book" when there is technically more than one new book

jagged apex
thin zephyr
jagged apex
thin zephyr
#

Fizban got me genuinely hooked though, so I might just have a preferred style of 5e book

jagged apex
#

much like people who were so quick to dismiss the 2024 dragonborns as "just player half-dragons" annoys me especially since they are in lore we had via the realms so interesting and even with the setting agnostic stuff occupy a similar niece as golitaths, tieflings, aasimar, ect...

#

they are connected in some way beyond their control to these powerful beings but are not beholden to them, or their natures, yet at times can be mistreated or otherwise treated unfairly because of this connection

unkempt merlin
jagged apex
#

obviously staples since the old days like the elves, dwarves, humans, orcs, ect.. are gunna have a lot more setting agnostic lore by comparison

fallow leaf
jagged apex
austere harness
#

I LOVE lizardfolks

jagged apex
jagged apex
# austere harness Eh atleast I have my character as a lizardfolk lol

some of my favorite lore on them is realms specific, either that shared between greyhawk and the realms, forget which, but there is a difference physically between male and females but is so hard for other species to notice it often is overlooked, it's the frills/crest, males having a single large and long one that goes down to the shoulder blades and a female having 2 smaller ones that run parallel to the back of the neck

fallow leaf
unkempt merlin
#

As for the Tymanther - If it gave lore about it being destroyed then thats expressly not the same thing as it "not being there". Especially since that lore lines up with the 5e lore we had already gotten from SCAG

#

(which incidentally, is what was brought up the last time the discussion was had as well)

jagged apex
#

else you may be interested in knowing that the setting agnostic lore gives two examples of lizardfolk who basically channel elemental earth, so earth bender esc lizardfolk if you are familiar with avatar the last air bender

grim siren
#

There also is some confusion on Djerad Thymar. It was a pyramid and now it's built into the side of a mountain?

jagged apex
#

it it got destroyed during the war, one could presume it might be explainable as them having to rebuild it, not sure if that is the case, would make some degree of sense since it was at least according to the forgotten realms wiki, the capital of tymanther

quick gate
quick gate
merry rune
#

Ah that new

oak seal
#

It is not only insulting but incredibly dumb writing

unkempt merlin
#

subjectivity of it being good writing or not aside - thats not got much to do with what you replied to.

#

from what I understand the lore presented in the book builds off of previous lore we have gotten in 5e for tymanther

#

Which was this

#

It having lore surrounding it and what happened to it =/= "it being removed", which is what the convo had been about previously

quick gate
#

The previous lore included a lake and second dragonborn city (Djerad Kethendi), that are absent here

#

So no, it's not the same lore

unkempt merlin
#

This is the previous 5e lore (and it is in line with that)

jagged apex
#

to be fair, enlil when he chose the dragonborn was much weaker, becoming a lesser deity and he is not the only god in the pantheon

#

his choosing of progee does not mean they can't loose a war

#

especially since these day most gods are rather hands off as per lord Ao's orders

#

and little still seems known about this newer gilgeam given in the previous war had an army of demons as his allies, there are ways that can explain the situation but since it is not out yet and not documented on the wiki yet, i can't really elaborate until i know the actual details and can only theorize so much

thin zephyr
#

What’s the new lore on spirit dragons? They seem way different than what they were before

jagged apex
#

you mean like the spell? cuz otherwise idk what you are reffering to as a thing in dnd lore

unkempt merlin
#

it is and was

#

Apparently the new spirit dragons are another name for song dragons

thin zephyr
#

It used to be a name for a type of lung dragon, now they seem Celtic or Druidic. Wondering what these new spirit dragons are

jagged apex
#

ah, far as i know the only other term for lung dragons was oriental dragons

#

huh, not seeing that name for song dragons either, at least not on the forgotten realms wiki, presuming it is just a thing they are called as of the upcoming books i guess? else i am just confused

thin zephyr
#

Think it’s in the new books; that’s what I was asking about

unkempt merlin
#

song dragons were also mentioned in fizbans

thin zephyr
unkempt merlin
#

The way they were described there was pretty blatant "we aren't covering them here but we are leaving room for them to maybe be covered down the line"

#

People just... heavily misinterpreted it as "they don't exist and never did and never will"

thin zephyr
#

Yeah; it was very overblown

jagged apex
#

guess it was too vague for most people to get the intended message, though i personally believed it was leaving the door open and making it clear that they at the very least were not gunna say anything definitive one way or the other in fizban's, and took it as more so an in universe theory some sage might have had

#

plus at least from my observations when people complain about dnd products be it mechanics or lore for some reason they do so based on what is not included rather than judging it for what it is

#

at least around the time of fizban's release that seemed a common trend i noticed

versed oasis
#

If tieflings can be the result of ancestors having made a pact with a fiend, what does that mean for other patrons? Can a genie warlock lead to a Genasi descendant for example?

cloud marten
jagged apex
#

the issue, is they judge it for what it is not rather than what it is

#

is like disliking a pizza because it is not a hamburger

unkempt merlin
#

Not really the place to talk about if it is "necessary" or not

jagged apex
#

right, i was just clarifying what i said earlier

unkempt merlin
#

The message that was in reply to has since been deleted

lofty niche
#

Some folk often have a hard time understanding that just because something is not mentioned in a new source doesn't mean it is no longer there, so I can easily see something even as innocuous as the Fizban's side bar causing the issues it did.

pallid flower
jagged apex
#

though most warlock's have a sort of transactional one if i am not mistaken, that is basically the most commonly depicted one

#

but generally a pact does not automatically have anything to do with your race

#

but do to the nature of how one can become plane touched it is reasonable for a patron's pact with a warlock to lead to their decendants becoming plane touched but it is just that, a possibility it is not guarenteed, manditory, or anything like that

jagged apex
sacred oxide
#

Question about a possible misprint in the 'Heroes of Faerun' book.
In 'Chapter 2 - Regions of the Realms - Anauroch' it says (quote) "...the ancient empire of Netheril, which fell in a magical cataclysm almost 3,000 years ago..."
But wasn't Karsus' Folly -339 DR? So around 1840 years ago, so much closer to "...almost 2,000 years ago..."?

jagged apex
#

well if i am not mistaken the new books are potentially ment to take place in 1500 DR if not close to it

#

so yeah, that might be a misprint from the sound of it

#

either that or who ever wrote it might have messed up their math

glacial finch
#

Hey, if I wanted to design a character who's trapped in a skeletal or tree bark-like body, thinks it's a cursed cervan (deer person), but is actually some type of spirit imbued with the memories/personality of a dead cervan boy who doesn't know any better and doesn't mean any harm, what could be the origin of such a state? Would this creature-who-thinks-its-a-boy be a fey, an undead, a fiend, something else?

#

Tried browsing the web for disembodied spirits and memory stuff but didn't really find anything

#

basically looking to make a creature with some kind of sinister origin, that assumed the memory and personality of a departed cervan, but by itself doesn't actually mean any harm, or is even aware of the fact it's a fake

frank dew
#

slams down 5e

The utter disrespect they are showing my main man Deep Sashelas is down right devastating.

It's been seven years since the Lord of the Undersea last got any love in these Umberlee-centric times :(

gloomy shell
jagged apex
#

well to be fair, deep sashelas is specifically an elven deity and umberlee is the main godess of the sea in the faerunian pantheon, so makes sense that with how a lot of the 5e realms stuff tends to focus on faerun she'd be the most frequently mentioned god, though according to the wiki he is rumored to have a demesne near the moonshae isles, which we know is getting a book in the the future, so is possible there might be some focus on him there

#

plus despite their efforts to become on good terms with other underwater races, most of his faithful seems to be made up of sea elves, where as umberlee is often more invoked by surface dwellers who travel by sea, mainly to avoid her wrath and thus risk geting sunk

#

and seems most sea elves live not only underwater but specifically the Sea of Fallen Stars and the Great Sea, so is likely he has not come up do to simply not really focusing on those areas let alone underwater

open wolf
#

In Venom's Taste (Lisa Smedman 2004) it is established that calling/identifying the Yuan-ti Abomination as "Abomination" is seen as a slur/insult

What is the preferred name for them then?

Fullblood?

jagged apex
#

idk, far as i know they are only referred to as abominations, no alternative name seems to be documented, but since it is a realms specific book, Ed Greenwood may be able to offer some clarification even if is just the writer of the book doing their own thing

open wolf
#

How would I go about forwarding that question to him?

jagged apex
#

there is twitter/X but i know from others in the server he also has his own discord

open wolf
#

Ooo that's useful

jagged apex
#

though i don't have access to his discord so i am not sure if it is public or anything like that, i just know it exists as others in the server have made mention of it

open wolf
#

Shoot

grim siren
#

It is a public Discord. Search Greenwood's Grotto.

#

You do have to be a Patreon support to ask him Qs though

thin zephyr
open wolf
open wolf
merry rune
#

I'm pretty confused by this actually. Who exactly enforced this purity concept in their society? Was it themselves or was it the other races?

#

Ah it can't be them since the abominations are the ruling class. It must be the outside races giving the names then.

#

Ah! Eureka. Yuan-ti were created by experimenting on humans by the Sarrukh. Pureblood I suppose refers to them still being mostly "pure" in reference to the original species.

open wolf
#

Most yuan-ti get their names from humans in the area:
Half-bloods
Mage slayers
Holy guardians
Abominations

Purebloods I would say that they are the purest human wise

merry rune
#

I don't think there are any names for Yuan-ti that are abonimations. They just go by the names of their houses.

#

Within their society, I mean.

open wolf
#

I will try to pick Mr. Greenwood's brain to see if he has an answer

merry rune
#

What is an abomination to the party coming by, is Lord thisandthat, ruler of the next 400 miles, to the Yuan-ti "halfbloods" you are currently moving amongst.

open wolf
#

Ranging from the one we see in the 5e picture to a snake with 6 human heads

merry rune
#

Yeah it's a flowing transition.

#

It's basically just a more successful corruption of the human origin.

#

You can go further and further. There is no specific categorisation.

open wolf
#

But even then, they would need a name for the sub-race. Calling each and every one by their name/house would be rather tedious in a conversation

open wolf
#

Which I imagine would be their equivalent of a "nessisary evil"

merry rune
#

You could technically even see it as a good thing.

#

That last spark showing that you did this to another race.

#

They are meant to be evil, after all.

open wolf
merry rune
#

That's what I mean though. They would just say what we say too.

open wolf
merry rune
#

It's not like species is brought up within the society.

#

We don't say "The humans will see you now."

#

I imagine if you wanted immersive terms, they would be the most favoured ones (by Seth or whoever they think they worship).

open wolf
merry rune
#

I didn't mean that.

#

I meant Yuan-Ti refer to their own as we refer to other humans.

open wolf
merry rune
#

We don't say human. We say president or boss or whatever.

merry rune
#

"Saveesen of the House blabla will see you now."

#

"We, the delegation of the Yuan-Ti in the Scaled Valley, present these gifts."

#

You get the idea.

open wolf
#

Food for thought

merry rune
#

What is certain is that calling their most esteemed blessed members abominations will not go over well with them if they have any choice about it.

open wolf
#

I am hoping we get another serpent kingdom book at some point

#

Need those extra subcaste to come back

#

My wizards are getting too cocky

merry rune
#

I wonder why they are even called Yuan-Ti.

open wolf
#

Its origin is a combination of sounds meant to evoke a Chinese-like or East Asian origin

#

Checks out for 1980's lol

#

Even though their theme seems more south America

jagged apex
# open wolf Need those extra subcaste to come back

friendly reminder, thoes subcast still technically exist in the lore, just not really reintroduced officially yet, you could probably find 3rd party adaptations or could convert them to 5e, as 3e lore and mechanics are fairly similar in a couple ways to 5e and at least in my opinion are fairly easy to adapt

#

at least i am presuming given you were talking about wizards one of those older casts/subraces you would be most interested in are the mage slayers

open wolf
#

Lol

thick trout
#

Is there anything in lore for Tabaxi to resemble cats like Tigers?

jagged apex
#

tabaxi are cat men in general and can have traits of any cats

jagged apex
# thick trout Is there anything in lore for Tabaxi to resemble cats like Tigers?

to quote monsters of the multiverse, which i believe was the latest setting agnostic lore for them, "Created by the Cat Lord—a divine being of the Upper Planes—to blend the qualities of humanoids and cats, tabaxi are a varied people in both attitude and appearance. In some lands, tabaxi live like the cats they resemble, naturally curious and at home in playful environments. In other places, tabaxi live as other folk do, not exhibiting the feline behavior the Cat Lord intended.
Tabaxi’s appearance is as varied as their attitudes. Some tabaxi have features or patterning in their fur like tigers, jaguars, or other big cats, while others have appearances more like a house cat. Still others have unique patterns or might style their fur to their preferences—or might even be hairless!" end quote

jagged apex
thick trout
#

Thank you very much

open wolf
#

Cause it's about Mortikien going to other places and seeing the different variations of things

jagged apex
#

ie it is not bound by setting specific lore

#

and you did not specify you were wondering strictly in any one setting, let alone the forgotten realms

open wolf
open wolf
jagged apex
#

i am curious do we know how big tiamat is in universe? like has her physical form ever been assigned measurements or do we only know that at bear minimum she is the smallest size, but honestly larger, for the gargantuan size category?

#

like how for example the tarrasque is known for on average being 50ft tall historically

calm crest
#

1e states she is 60 feet long. 2e has body length 280 feet, with a 220-foot tail. Given that she’s a deity and has many different avatars (that include ones of only Medium and Large size) it’s hard to say.

prisma copper
#

Hi everyone, I'm a new member here, and I have a quick question that one of my players brought up. Regarding the magical item "the immovable rod", which has the function of pressing a button on its side and it becomes, as it is said, immovable, would that account for the world's planetary rotation or would it then cause buildings to be destroyed if left in the proper spot? I figured I'd ask here if anything, simply because I don't know how to answer it

shrewd nest
pallid flower
thin zephyr
prisma copper
coarse hull
#

Out of the main released settings in D&D 5e, how are they ranked on high fantasy (high magic) to low fantasy (low fantasy)?

unkempt merlin
#

Generally speaking, all degrees of high fantasy

#

The majority of them are also what would be described as "high magic" - where powerful magic (in the hands of mortals) isn't that unknown, albeit there is more of an even split between how narrow vs wide that magic is (ie: how commonly people have access to that magic). Greyhawk is pretty high and narrow, the FR is high but sort of in between narrow and wide, Eberron is more low but wide (since the magic there very rarely ever reaches past things that are like 5th level spells, but cantrip/1st level things can be readily acccessed by many people)

obsidian gate
#

the stories can get sometimes get more gritty like typical for low fantasy, but there is always a ton of powerful magic

unkempt merlin
#

Yea thats the big conflation that happens - that "Grittiness" = "low fantasy"

shut hill
#

Would there be a type of printing press in the Forgotten Realms?

steep leaf
#

Does Vecna have any variants or no?

jagged apex
#

to my knowledge the main factor is how wide spread and available magic is, and from what i could find at least many people seem to consider the forgotten realms a high fantasy setting

unkempt merlin
jagged apex
shut hill
#

Thank you both!

steep leaf
jagged apex
steep leaf
#

Gotcha

jagged apex
#

also pretty sure the one in stranger things has nothing to do with the god of evil secrets, remember the main characters are a bunch of dnd nerds

steep leaf
#

True

jagged apex
#

as i recall they name these monsters based on monsters in dnd they view as similar, like Demogorgon, despite the creatures not having any connection to the prince of demons in the show, though newer materials seem to connect some similar creatures to the prince of demons, but i think that could be explained a number of ways

steep leaf
#

How?

jagged apex
#

and pretty sure they only named it after the prince of demons cuz he was the strongest enemy in their dnd campaign in older editions they were playing in the show

jagged apex
steep leaf
#

Thx only reason I ask is to see if there’s a way using dnd lore or what not to see if he’s the main bad guy which i don’t think he is

jagged apex
#

so at least in that cases seems he was influenced by his experiences in the show and this is them basically selling what that character came up with for his game, but in 5e format

jagged apex
#

cuz a lot of creatures in that show have very little similarities to their dnd counterparts in terms of names

#

like i am pretty sure the demogorgon in that show was just named that cuz how powerful it was in relation to them

steep leaf
#

True I’m hoping we get to see an elder brain but I don’t think we will

jagged apex
#

cuz while they are dnd nerds, they are just normal humans

steep leaf
#

True

jagged apex
#

well i don't watch the show, i only know of it via public knowledge where it is talked about especially with the dnd supplements, at most they will slap the name of "elder brain" on something, but don't expect it to tie into their lore

unkempt merlin
#

That implies they were ever "humans" or something else in the first place. They were always giants

jagged apex
#

well they were never normal people to bigin with in published materials, so already you are more so in homebrew territory than anything

merry rune
#

(i mean better-adjusted individuals, not humans)

jagged apex
#

remember this is for what is in published materials

#

well their behavior is a lot to do with their ordining

merry rune
#

I have this from material.

jagged apex
#

which is basically biggest and fattest is best

calm crest
#

Specifically in Eberron, giants were driven to madness by the Quori during the fall of their empire. May be closer to what you’re looking for.

steep leaf
jagged apex
#

they simply don't tend to consider smaller races people, plus they will eat anything, that just happens to lead to murder, but they don't see it at all that way

merry rune
#

Shame

jagged apex
#

well your game is already deviated from the published lore, so we can only do so much

#

but your idea to my knowledge has nothing to do with anything i know of in published lore

#

but if they are specific to your game, that is beyond this scope, as this is for talk of what is in published lore

#

which wiki? not all are made equal and even on the best not everything is always cited

#

closest thing i know to your idea is how goliaths came to be

calm crest
#

Hill giants absolutely degenerated from their titanic ancestors in Eberron. As for other settings, I believe that’s a vague theory rather than a confirmed fact.

jagged apex
calm crest
#

Part of it may also be a in-universe justification for their Flanderization. Hill giants have mechanically decreased in intelligence as editions have gone on.

jagged apex
#

as some specifically blame their patron god for their current state

#

as they are relatively kinder than hill giants, at least as one of their differences between the two species

#

but far as i can tell they are mostly just a genetic offshoot and not something that you'd really be able to turn them into without making something up for your own table's continuity/lore

merry rune
#

Fair point though, I appreciate it

jagged apex
#

literally they starved and went insane from hunger

#

the other hill giants seeing them as the "living embodiment of Grolantor's eternal hunger"

#

i suspect they go along with it cuz naturally he is bigger, stronger, and fatter than them, does not help they ain't the brightest knife in the crayon box so to speak typically

#

and most of their issues in the realms at least seem largely do to his direct influence in their faith

#

cuz giants their morality system is less good and evil and more "giant like" and "not giant like" which varies from giant to giant species, with a broader sort between them, at least before Annam basically shattered it on toril, leaving the ranking of giant species in relation to other giant species up in the air as explored in the story line of the adventure "storm king's thunder"

#

more so he was so small they did not believe him when he revealed himself and claimed to be Annam's promised savior of their people, they learned the hard way if at all

merry rune
#

I just really love learning about the FR setting lore because it motivates me to work my ideas into it. I love adapting things.

#

My favourite recent bit of lore I found was probably stuff about Hellriders which is a bit messy, especially since BG3 involved them too.

#

Were tieflings always a thing in Elturel in large numbers or was this caused by Avernus?

#

I was under the impression that the tieflings mostly came after the descent happened but the way they talk about it in BG3 makes it sound like they were always there and got kicked out after the descent due to obvious prejudice or suspicion.

#

Also, is there actually lore for what was there before Elturgard. When I was on the wiki mid-session improvising, it seemed like Elturgard came to be quite recently.

jagged apex
#

yeah i very much am of a similar mind when adapting things, preffering to weave my ideas into the established lore, but yes tieflings have been a thing long before decent into avernus having been in many editions of the game

#

though tieflings live in many places i am not sure of the exact figures and what not of elturel

merry rune
#

Oh I know they were old stuff.

#

I meant an influx in Elturgard.

#

I thought after the descent, purely by my own hypothesis, that their citizens became tieflings in droves.

#

Now I'm thinking that was completely off the mark and the refugees in BG3 are just the tieflings that were always there leaving.

#

Seeing "so many tieflings" in video game logic made me think that there was an influx in the population.

#

I was a bit eager to spin my theory there.

jagged apex
merry rune
#

Yeah

#

Got that one wrong...

#

I wish they outright said it somewhere though just for my peace of mind.

jagged apex
#

seems to imply that before the few survivors were forced to retreat the gate was open, basically leaving a big portal connecting the location and the plane of baator's first layer, avernus

#

and seems the only noticed thing i am seeing is that most if not all the city's tieflings were exiled from the city, thanks to a new wave of misplaced fear and newly-formed prejudice, basically the experience of the decent into avernus adventure renewing the common held pre-judice many tend to have about tieflings

#

if you have questions about realms lore that is not specified in published materials, i'd personally suggest asking Ed Greenwood, he created the forgotten realms after all and was involved, to a degree with the adventure and bg3, though mainly approving some things or not, but i'd imaigne if anyone would know such info it is him especially considering he works on his own version of the realms daily as he has said at one point in his youtube videos

merry rune
#

I love watching Greenwood videos.

#

The last one I saw was about the giants, explaining their naming conventions and the myth of that fire giant stone, which I will tie into my player's quest when we tackle fire giants.

#

I will basically have him claim the stone to claim leadership of fire giants, as with the curse cleansing (homebrew) of the hill giants.

#

The one that really throws me off is Cloud Giants. I will have to learn a lot more for them.

jagged apex
#

basically they are gamblers, at least is one way you can summarize them as simply as possible, trickery and wit is what they are all about

#

they are basically a bunch of nobles or aristacrats that like to celebrate nearly anything

merry rune
#

I only knew about the noble thing so far. Good to hear.

jagged apex
#

the wiki describes their main factor to contribute to an individuals' status is "extravagance and wealth"

merry rune
#

My player will definitely struggle with that one.

jagged apex
#

though far as i know only frost giant's have their system relevant to the size of the individual, all others you basically would be viewed lesser for being so small even if you have an abundance of the traits they favor

merry rune
#

Winning them over will require a major power play that plays at their aristocratic nature, not their frolicking.

merry rune
#

"Only frost giants have system with size relevance" "all others viewed you as lesser for being small even if etc"

#

Typo or am I not getting it?

jagged apex
#

like if you beat a goristro to death with your bare hands, they will consider that relative to you being a human, rather than relative to how a frost giant would fair doing the same feat

merry rune
#

So frost giants would be more impressed by that than other giants?

#

In other words, they care less about your size than the rest?

jagged apex
#

well i guess more fair cuz they are more about martial prowess and strength, but far as i know it being relative to the individual's kind is something only they care about

merry rune
#

I see

#

So they do care but it can lead to positive, not negative judgement if you do impressive feats.

jagged apex
merry rune
#

My player is a runeknight though and I am giving him size boosts the further he builds his epos so size won't be too much of an issue.

jagged apex
#

like if you are a halfling and you suplex a bear, they'd be very impressed, just as a random example

merry rune
#

Every big thing he achieves, like milestones, he gets 2 inches of size at the moment.

#

He started out at goliath size so I am hoping by the time it comes to convincing the true giants to follow him, very lategame, he will be as big as them when using his active growing ability.

jagged apex
#

far as i know all other giants factor one's size into their position among their kind

merry rune
#

Yeah, it's a pretty big thing.

#

Hill, Stone, Fire, Frost, Cloud, Storm is the ordning right?

jagged apex
#

fire is about frost in the traditional hierarchy

merry rune
#

Even though they are smaller. Interesting

#

I thought there was one breaking the size rule.

jagged apex
#

is because they are generally considered stronger and more skilled craftsmen

merry rune
#

Yeah

#

Alright well. It is time to polish tomorrow's session since this player's first quest will begin tomorrow. Refurnishing Hardbuckler right now to be taken by goblins with all the gnomes that live there dead.

jagged apex
#

the frost giants tend to be held back by their inability to dwell in warm areas, where as fire giants can dwell rather easily in both cold and hot environments, even if they prefer hot

merry rune
#

I'm hoping they will take the help of Hill Giants who live in Hill's Edge at this time, leading to the first alliance with a few true giants.

#

As you can see, I am riding the line with canon as much as I can.

#

This will now be for dmdiscussion though if I talk about it more. Thank you for the talk. It's fun to discuss the lore of FR.

jagged apex
merry rune
#

I have my work cut out for me with them. Turning slaving evil-aligned folk into allies for a heroic party will need some true "I am your king, do what I say!" energy.

jagged apex
#

cited from the older 2014 5e books, they "were master craftsmen giants that lived in volcanic and mountainous environments"

merry rune
#

With Hill Giants I can use the myth of the dwarves thing and Grolantor's neglect to help me along.

#

With Fire Giants, there isn't really such a trick. I just have to actually make it happen that they change their ways.

#

At least, I have the eternal flame myth to help me a little bit.

jagged apex
#

hey, your game and your table, your call, even if using an established setting, nothing is keeping you bound to the published lore except yourself if anything

#

though i guess is possible cuz apparently the thing about some finding them better suited as workers than meals is from mordenkainen's tome of foes, and while that is currently legacy, it is a 5e source so at one point it was considered

merry rune
#

That is true. I did read that.

jagged apex
merry rune
#

Hill giants figured out that dwarves make better slaves than food. Some at least.

#

I will just have that be a thing depending on the clan.

jagged apex
#

but you said you run 3.5e, so i'd honestly not worry about any lore from later editions as it wouldn't really be relevant for that continuity

#

until you specified i just assumed you were using the latest edition which is 5e

merry rune
#

Eeeeeeh It's accessible and I do run 5e. The campaign is just set in 3.5 time so I try to match 3.5 lore with 5e rules and take 5e flavour.

civic pier
#

Hi

merry rune
#

Hello

civic pier
#

Bye

#

Ok

calm crest
#

Did you have a lore-related question?

civic pier
#

Well i wanted to ask more about zombies i never got to that topic

jagged apex
#

well if you are wondering if they eat brains like popular media, no, dnd zombies are not known to do that in published materials, they are reanimated corpses that naturally tend to hate all life

civic pier
#

Kk

jagged apex
#

though if you were wondering something other than that likely question, ask away and we will try to answer

civic pier
#

How do they yknow exist like how theyre made

jagged apex
#

necromancy

#

and or negative energy being infused into a corpse

civic pier
#

Also some loot they could have i heard that they carry some chest sometimes is there some lore thing i can pit

#

Put

jagged apex
#

not to my knowledge

civic pier
#

I can put it in my dnd

jagged apex
#

they are typically mindless minions in published materials that are favored by necromancers

civic pier
#

Hmm

jagged apex
#

to quote their latest setting agnostic lore "Zombies are unthinking, reanimated corpses, often gruesomely marred by decay and lethal traumas. They serve whatever supernatural force animates them—typically evil necromancers or fiendish spirits. Zombies are relentless, merciless, and resilient, and their dead flesh can carry on even after suffering grievous wounds. While they can follow simple orders, they rely on primal drives rather than thought. They fulfill commands by working tirelessly or battering through foes, but they are easily stymied by barriers or unexpected circumstances.
Zombies are usually created from Humanoid corpses, but the remains of other creatures can also become zombies. Such monstrous zombies might possess the strength they had in life or a measure of their supernatural abilities, but they employ such abilities haphazardly at best." end quote

calm crest
#

Sometimes they occur naturally, especially in places infused with Negative Energy, like the Shadowfell.

#

But mostly necromancy.

jagged apex
#

hense why is said one way is a corpse getting infused with negative energy, but the most easy and consistant way is via necromancy as there is a spell for creating zombies as well as other undead

calm crest
#

Ah, missed that message. dndCheers

jagged apex
#

and spells are by their nature and design magical effects that can consistantly and reliably be repeated to achieve the desired effect

civic pier
#

Yeah and tiefling

jagged apex
#

more complex tasks the more ideal necromantic minion for more complex tasks are skeletons

civic pier
#

Like the race

calm crest
#

In terms of treasure, zombies aren’t sapient enough to carry any on their own. They might still have possessions from their mortal life, or were deliberately given equipment or something to protect by their creator.

jagged apex
#

which is kind of funny, the one with literally no brain is the smarter of the two

calm crest
jagged apex
#

tieflings and zombies have nothing to do with one another unless you specifically are making a zombie out of a tiefling's corpse

civic pier
#

So if the zombie was a farmer it caries wheat i hear that they have some thing lore so im here

#

No but lore to tieflings

calm crest
#

Just general lore about tieflings?

civic pier
#

Demons is all i know

#

Abt them

#

Yes so info on them

calm crest
#

Or Devils, or Yugoloths.

jagged apex
#

tieflings are plane touched via the energies of the lower planes in a number of ways

civic pier
#

Lore

calm crest
#

Tieflings are mortals with a lineage associated with Fiends and the Lower Planes.

jagged apex
#

to quote their latest setting agnostic lore "Tieflings are either born in the Lower Planes or have fiendish ancestors who originated there. A tiefling (pronounced TEE-fling) is linked by blood to a devil, a demon, or some other Fiend. This connection to the Lower Planes is the tiefling’s fiendish legacy, which comes with the promise of power yet has no effect on the tiefling’s moral outlook." end quote

calm crest
#

Some are the children of cambions and other half-fiends. Others made pacts with Asmodeus. Some are essentially irradiated by the Outer Planes.

civic pier
#

And lastly gnome (i thought there were only dwarwes)

jagged apex
#

you got Abyssal tieflings that are influenced by quote "The entropy of the Abyss, the chaos of Pandemonium, and the despair of Carceri", Cthonic which quote "feel not only the tug of Carceri but also the greed of Gehenna and the gloom of Hades.", and Infernal who are tied quote "not only to Gehenna but also the Nine Hells and the raging battlefields of Acheron." end quote

civic pier
#

Gloom of hades?

jagged apex
#

yeah hades is a plane that will literally suck the color, joy, and such out of you if you stay there too long and are not native ie born there

calm crest
#

The Three Glooms of Hades is the Neutral Evil Outer Plane.

jagged apex
#

is kind of why it is known as "the grey wastes" or at least one of the layers is

civic pier
#

Ok

jagged apex
#

plus yay, the plane of hades' layers are known to be called "glooms"

calm crest
#

Gnomes are a species of small humanoid with a natural inclination towards magic, especially illusions.

jagged apex
#

and are known typically for being quiet folk and keeping to themselves, at least in the forgotten realms setting

civic pier
#

So dwarves but magic

jagged apex
#

nope

calm crest
#

Some settings, like Krynn, Mystara, and Spelljammer, have gnomes as flamboyant engineers.

jagged apex
#

to quote their latest setting agnostic lore "Gnomes are magical folk created by gods of invention, illusions, and life underground. The earliest gnomes were seldom seen by other folk due to the gnomes’ secretive nature and their propensity for living in forests and burrows. What they lacked in size, they made up for in cleverness. They confounded predators with traps and labyrinthine tunnels. They also learned magic from gods like Garl Glittergold, Baervan Wildwanderer, and Baravar Cloakshadow, who visited them in disguise. That magic eventually created the lineages of forest gnomes and rock gnomes.
Gnomes are petite folk with big eyes and pointed ears, who live around 425 years. Many gnomes like the feeling of a roof over their head, even if that “roof” is nothing more than a hat." end quote

#

they have more in common with halflings than they do dwarves

#

heck, the kinder of krynn, who are sort of in the niche halfings would normally fill, are transformed gnomes

civic pier
#

Damm so mutch lore

calm crest
#

They do have a love of treasure, but for its beauty, not for its value or craftsmanship as dwarves would appreciate.

jagged apex
#

they have been in the game for a long time, it beign 50 years unless you are more specific most things will have a lot of lore

civic pier
#

Im going to bed and a qestion do you know pointy hat

jagged apex
#

to quote the latest setting agnostic lore for dwarves "Dwarves were raised from the earth in the elder days by a deity of the forge. Called by various names on different worlds—Moradin, Reorx, and others—that god gave dwarves an affinity for stone and metal and for living underground. The god also made them resilient like the mountains, with a life span of about 350 years.
Squat and often bearded, the original dwarves carved cities and strongholds into mountainsides and under the earth. Their oldest legends tell of conflicts with the monsters of mountaintops and the Underdark, whether those monsters were towering giants or subterranean horrors. Inspired by those tales, dwarves of any culture often sing of valorous deeds—especially of the little overcoming the mighty.
On some worlds in the multiverse, the first settlements of dwarves were built in hills or mountains, and the families who trace their ancestry to those settlements call themselves hill dwarves or mountain dwarves, respectively. The Greyhawk and Dragonlance settings have such communities." end quote

calm crest
#

Although gnomes weren’t official PC options until 1978.

civic pier
#

Goodnight

jagged apex
#

yeah but a race does not need to be playable to be a person as far as the worlds they live in are concerned

calm crest
#

They did appear in OD&D and Chainmail, but only as monsters with virtually no lore.

jagged apex
#

yeah from what i am aware 2e onwards is when they started to really flush things out

civic pier
#

Its 8 pm an i have a party tmrw 0ls stop bombarding me with lore

jagged apex
#

you ain't the only one here, besides you can always look at it later, nobody is forcing you

calm crest
#

They get a bit more fleshed out in 1e, but 2e and BECMI is really where the splat books came in.

civic pier
#

Ok bombard me ill look at it tmrw

#

And im so sry for wasting your time im going to newbie and to my friend dm and as more

#

Not lore more abt dnd

versed oasis
#

Is anybody here pretty in the know regarding Genie lore?

calm crest
#

Setting?

versed oasis
#

I guess forgotten realms?

jagged apex
calm crest
#

Toril has at least two explicitly genie-oriented regions. The Lands of Intrigue in Faerûn, and Zakhara.

crystal thicket
#

What is a good source for fundamental information about the gods of Eberron? I'm looking for details that most people may not know, particularly regarding their influence on technology and how that technology shapes the culture within the world.

unkempt merlin
#

Well the main important thing with the gods in Eberron: They aren't real.

More precisely, there isn't any definitive proof that they actually exist as beings somewhere.

They have followers and there are religions based around them still, but nothing definitive in setting about their existence.

crystal thicket
#

Interesting! I learned something new today! 😄

unkempt merlin
#

Onatar, the Sovereign of Fire and Forge, is the deity most commonly associated with smiths, artificers, and crafters

glacial path
#

Hey I really want to get into and learn the lore, there is just so much of it I'm very confused how and where to start, any suggestions?

ionic rivet
#

Find a setting you find interesting, do some internet searching on lore related to the setting, ask questions here or in other D&D lore discussing settings, don't take everything as "true" and understand that D&D official lore for a setting can and will change and generally D&D holds that an official D&D book/game/movie's lore is official unto itself.

merry rune
#

So if you want to be able to look at millions of things over the course of years, that's the one you want.

#

If so, I'd personally start with one of the basic things on the forgottenrealms wiki like "Faerun", the continent where almost all the books take place, the pantheon explaining the gods of the forgotten realms setting, the planes such as hells, the abyss, elemental planes and material plane (the "normal" world).

#

From there, you can just click keyword after keyword leading from one to another wiki entry and it's honestly a wild ride.

#

If you want the most relevant place in Faerun, which is the most relevant continent in the forgotten realms, which is the most relevant setting for DnD modern, you should look at the sword coast. You can branch out anytime to less known regions if you're feeling rebellious.

#

There are many books with illustrations and lore entries you could buy and youtube has plenty of videos, though especially with youtube be careful not to take it as divine proof considering content creators are flawed and have the agenda of views.

#

Pick a country you like, a race you like or a god you like. Learn all about it. It will lead you to another 20 topics.

dusky wharf
#

I'd also note that the new books that just came out are an excellent introduction to the setting.

jagged apex
#

i think it is the dmg or the phb, forget which, even has a lore glossary

#

honestly i feel if wanting to get into dnd lore in general and not any specific setting, is better to start with the setting agnostic materials, else your might wind up with presumptions on what is the norm and what is not from one setting to another since your first reference point would be setting specific with much of it's lore

jagged apex
glacial path
#

wow thanks alot all, I'll start looking into setting I like a lot, appreciate the advice

pallid flower
#

RFtLW is the best starting point imo (the wiki or Keith Baker’s blogs also work)

cyan monolith
civic pier
#

Wsp

#

Just here to say hi

jagged apex
#

and it does detail the main ie key information on the planes and other things that are shared across most dnd settings

#

it being less hyper detailed is again because it is setting agnostic

#

and one thing that others have pointed out to me, the greyhawk used in the example is potentially further back in it's timeline than the setting last was in older editions

crude blaze
#

Also worth noting that the inclusion of Greyhawk in the new DMG was not only to give an example of a setting, but also to show how you don’t need a full book in order to have a playable setting.

#

Which isn’t really the purview of this channel, but still worth noting

modern mirage
#

Who is the current goddess of magic in the Forgotten Realms ? I can’t remember since Mystra died like three times or something

feral lintel
#

mystra

modern mirage
#

Midnight Mystra ?

feral lintel
#

iirc, yes

modern mirage
#

Ok~ thanks

#

Just trying to figure out who my wizard worships

jagged apex
#

well is worth knowing not everyone, even wizards, worships a god, let alone the goddess of magic, though she is the popular pick among those that do

merry rune
#

There is also the god of wizards.

#

I don't recall his name. He is like the wizard version of Torm for paladins.

jagged apex
#

his portfolio even is that of wizardry

merry rune
#

I think that is who I meant.

jagged apex
#

probably but i don't think i'd compare him to torm

#

as that seems misleading as torm is historically a patron deity of paladins, but there is no such relationship with arcane magic, so i doubt the parallel is as accurate as you think, also azuth was once mortal

cloud marten
#

how did he become god?

jagged apex
#

it's not really known, he refuses to answer questions on the topic so all that is knonw of his mortal life is legend

dapper sinew
jagged apex
#

he basically fought the demigod savras many times, failed, trapped him in his own staff, and then god help from his new lover mystra

#

granted this was before Ao changed the rules of who can and can not become a deity in the realms, unless i am mistaken

modern mirage
#

Trying to figure out my characters appearance

What eye colours do Kenkus have in the forgotten Realms ?

jagged apex
dapper sinew
grim siren
#

Azuth was also the first Magister one of the best spells lingers in Toril

jagged apex
#

or at least on it, there is a chance some mage in the underdark would dispute the in toril part 😛

versed hare
#

2024 calimport here I go!

merry rune
#

I think it is a fair comparison though because you'd expect the paladin deity to be more protective than the wizard deity.

jagged apex
#

plus he is a patron god of paladins not the god of paladins out right, and his portfolio is very different, being "Courage, self-sacrifice, duty, and loyalty" which is not exclusive to paladins, unlike wizardry which all wizards do and is something you don't really do unless you are a wizard in some regard

modern mirage
#

I suck at naming things, it’s my most hated part of character creation (I don’t like name generators, they feel generic) would my elven name stick out to much in the forgotten realms if I used Quenya names/words ? Lesser known ones, not big names like Fëanor

icy valley
#

Even if you used big names, I think a part of a parent naming a child is the inspiration of it. If they looked up to someone, they might honor them in continuing the name in spirit through their children.

#

I don't think elves are exempt from that behavior!

#

However, nah, an elf having a name in their native tongue wouldn't stick out at all. Even a half-elf that is more in tune to their elven heritage or engraced with their elven family.

modern mirage
#

@icy valley I meant would the naming conventions and word construction of Quenya be lore breaking to the elven languages in the forgotten realms world ?

Sorry for not responding, sooner, got distracted and wasn’t checking if I got a response

sinful orbit
#

Can dragons crossbreed

#

Can I have some crazy red black dragon fight?

icy valley
#

I'm not all too familiar with quenya unfortunately but it's definitely very similar or at least in the spirit of sindarin.

modern mirage
#

Sure, my first idea was Quenya because it’s like elven Latin in LotRs but Sindarin is good too

icy valley
#

There's words in elven that definitely sound like that, the words that elves in FR use to describe themselves is Tel'Quessir, so it's definitely very similar !

#

So elven as a whole in FR pulls a bunch from both languages i'd say

modern mirage
#

I suspected as much because of obviously the language Tolkien used for elves would inspire D&D elves but I wanted to be sure

icy valley
#

Yeah, I doubt it would seem out place at all !

polar snow
#

Hey folks, now that one of the new sourcebooks is out may I ask if there is anything in it regarding the Gate post-Absolute?

jagged apex
jagged apex
#

in fact far as i know only the orcs had their original inspiration be specifically the version that J. R. R. Tolkien made

jagged apex
#

do you mean the city of Baldur's Gate?

#

cuz while the gate is another name for the city, most out of universe use the name of the city cuz it is more clear and specific, especially since some don't know of the nickname of "the gate"

polar snow
#

Baldur's Gate

chrome moon
#

Does anyone known if the village/outskirts outside the Greyhawk city walls southwest in the 2024 map has a name?

hallow fog
#

let me find it

jagged apex
dire olive
#

Is there any history between Szass Tam/Thay and Orcus?

#

Just asking in case there was anything that would stop them from slightly working together for one thing in a campaign I'm making

hallow fog
#

iirc Orcus looks down on szass a bit

#

but I don't recall anything major like plot points

hallow fog
dire olive
#

Yeah, I can imagine demons working with anyone would be a very dysfunctional team

hallow fog
#

imagine the HR department for an alliance of thay, zhentarim, and asmodeus

#

puts a new spin on "human resources"

calm crest
#

As far as I know, Thayans openly consort with Fiends. Given Szass’ keen interest in and expertise with Necromancy, I don’t see why they couldn’t. Orcus has also cooperated with other major FR liches like Zhengyi the Witch-King.

#

Zhents and Red Wizards definitely have at least some degree of an alliance.

#

Zhents typically worship Bane, who Asmodeus likely sees as a rival in Faerûn.

jagged apex
#

if orcus has been involved in thay, it would seem it was at the very least not directly

hallow fog
#

oh yeah maps of thay are illegal right

#

for public distribution

#

because of that

jagged apex
pastel root
grim siren
polar snow
chrome moon
grim siren
# polar snow Weird, like nothing ever happened?

in 2021 it was stated that each piece of media was canon only to itself. There is nothing stating that the game's events are canon in FRHofF. Several plot points are mentioned but they are related to the characters and not the greater narrative.

Video Games have always been dubious. TSR and WOTC did not conisder the first two BG games canon until novels came out, and until the OG BG1 Protag was canonized as Abdel Adrian in Murder in Baldur's Gate.

polar snow
#

I have to reflect on this information

#

The very concept of reality now eludes me

chrome moon
#

Isn´t that just a case of, like, OTU - "your Own Traveller Universe"? It can be canon at your table or not.

thick sentinel
#

OTU is about trying to create your own Spinward Main with the random as-you go method, but ensuring the intact j1-capable route with the lightest fudging

I'm sure some D&D campaigns or subcampaigns can create in this style. The regular-old open sandbox would just require some sort of village->town->city->dungeon path or variant: perhaps one where the economy trails (or leads) the adventuring band, e.g., in underdark subcampaigns this might be the popular underdark merchant camps

feral lintel
#

do you have a lore question?

thick sentinel
#

Yes, I'd be curious if there exists any literature or lore on this, perhaps it eludes me

#

DoMM is the closest I can think of at the moment where the game keeps progressing to scale. The PCs can always be moving forward instead of returning to a home base

slate granite
#

just found out they retconned Elfharrow remaining post-second sundering...

#

No explanation either.. just "hey second sundering fixed it maybe"

cloud marten
#

knowing Toril that was just thursday to them

versed hare
slate granite
# versed hare What was elf harrow?

it used to be the land of Lapaliiya. to the west most of the Sharr. a group of city states working together.
They were initially spared from the spellplague however the country of the wizards south of it was not.. becoming an horrible landscape of dangerous wild magic.. over the years the toxic waste of this horrible place seeped out of the mountain chain and slowly destroyed Lapaliiya, causing the land to become desertic and monsters as well as well as wild magic plaguing the land.. every city became ruins and a bunch of wild elves from the east started roaming the destroyed lands, hence the name.

#

Since the land had not being initially swap with Abeir due to the Spellplague, it was never fixed by the Second sundering which reswaped lands back to their original location.

#

so the Elfharrow had remained post-second sundering.

#

the new map however heavily implies its somehow back to its pre-spellplague state....

#

which contradic pre-established 5e lore.

#

hence it was most likely retcon.

versed hare
#

Yeah there's like no trace of spellplague Era stuff

slate granite
#

also looking into it, it kinda implies the country of the dragonborn might have lost to Unther. As Unther' name is writen back where the Dragonborn country was.
They had originally survived the second sundering with two of their cities (the rest having been sent back to Abeir) and were somehow keeping the Returned Unther to the north.

#

rip dragonborn country.

cloud marten
#

so now my dragonborn character doesn't have home anymore

#

also who or what is Unther?

slate granite
#

wel.. the capital is still on the map.. but it most likely is Unther controlled now...

slate granite
# cloud marten also who or what is Unther?

Unther was sort of a Mesopotamia related country kinda?
They got sent to Abeir for like a century with the spellplague and were somewhat able to return with the second sundering but not Entirely as one of their old god decided to side with the dragonborn and forcefully kept two of the most important Dragonborn city in toril when the second sundering hit.
So the country of Unther was effecticely much smaller and stuck to the north of the dragonborn country.. they immediately went to war with the dragonborn country. We knew the dragonborn coutnry was so far keeping Unther to the north during the 5e period but not a whole lot of information was ever published about the war since.

cloud marten
#

ah I see

slate granite
#

if this can help, Bahamut and Tiamat originally came from their pantheon (most of the Untheric pantheon is gone by now, having died off or left)

cloud marten
#

knowing rl origin of those names that doesn't surprise me

slate granite
#

I could be wrong about Bahamut...

#

if we look into the very far past of Toril.. some really ancient and now gone empire had summoned people from Earth long ago, hence why we got Egyptian and Mesopotamic pantheons in Toril.

calm crest
#

In modern lore, Bahamut and Tiamat are solely from the Draconic pantheon.

slate granite
#

oh.. did they leave the Faerunian pantheon?

#

admit it isn't a strongly knit pantheon to be fair...

#

more a label for any gods active in the Faerun region...

calm crest
#

Gilgeam, god-king of Unther, is a historical nemesis of Tiamat and slew one of her three-headed aspects, which went on to become divided into Tchazzar who currently rules a neighboring region.

#

The Faerûnian gods aren’t a proper pantheon. They’re just a loose body of gods who have influence on the same continent.

#

They have multiple subgroups and members of other pantheons.

slate granite
#

yea something like that

#

so the new lore doesn't even consider either of them as part of the Faerunian pantheon?

#

wonder if they distanced themselves from the other faerunian gods

calm crest
#

All of the species-specific gods aren’t Torilian. They’re just guests in Realmspace.

#

The Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, etc. pantheons are multiversal.

grim siren
#

The Faerunian Pantheon is does still have a heirarchy from the lowly Demigods like Siamorphe, to Ao, the Overgod, and his superior the Luminous Being.

calm crest
#

Indeed. There are still rankings amongst the gods of Toril.

open wolf
#

Kinda disapointing Hoar didn't have any substance in Forgotten Realms: Heroes of Faerûn

jagged apex
#

makes sense he is fairly obscure compared to other gods in the faerun pantheon

#

so honestly to me it would not surprise me he did not get a focus

merry rune
#

The nighteater or something?

#

Nightserpent

jagged apex
#

no, Io

#

you are thinking of dendar the night serpent in regards to name

#

and with Io them being born from his sundered body is but 1 of multiple origins they have

#

bahamut and tiamat are part of the dragon pantheon, being the only two with any notable amount of active dedicated worshipers on toril these days since most of the other draconic gods did nothing while the dracorage plagued their people and tore their once great empire asunder

open wolf
merry rune
#

I'd consider it a lot more natural than them being from Unther.

#

Considering one goes super far back in time, and dragons were very relevant way before ai think Unther was a thing.

open wolf
#

Fair enough

gray thicket
#

Hey dunno if this is the right place to ask but, gonna be playing a campaign using the dragonlance setting which im not at all familiar with. Im gonna play a dwarf paladin from Thorbardin and just had some questions about it such as how such a dwarf might be recruited into/join the knights of solamnia, if anyones familiar with dragonlance here?

golden fiber
#

The question I have is, does anyone know if all of the new Fallbacks books and the new comic series for The Fallbacks take place in 1501 DR? As 1501 is the current year as referenced by the new Heroes of Faerun books?

jagged apex
#

from my understanding it is at earliest 1500s DR

#

so unless i am mistaken it is set that date if not a bit later by only like a year or so

#

as for other books idk

#

like idk what these fallback books and new comic you are referring to even are, but unless the premise suggests otherwise, they could be set in an unrelated point in time or even different settings

jagged apex
#

in regards to the fallbacks books, seems there is no year in the realms attributed to either of them at the time

#

though seems that could be because people are still working on the articles and and are of course likely reading the books for such information

strange hamlet
#

How are dwarfs born

#

DM said something about them just popping out from the ground

#

And ig it's part of lore?

#

As a total?

merry rune
#

It's a meme.

#

What is true is that there is the myth of the first dwarves being carved from stone, ages ago.

#

Of course, in your DM's world, he can decide it's like he says it is.

jagged apex
#

lore will vary from setting to setting, especially for a species, and how they came into being

#

but from the published setting agnostic material, their god or at least a god creating them is considered universal when not talking about any specific setting, to quote "Dwarves were raised from the earth in the elder days by a deity of the forge. Called by various names on different worlds—Moradin, Reorx, and others—that god gave dwarves an affinity for stone and metal and for living underground. The god also made them resilient like the mountains, with a life span of about 350 years." end quote

#

in more typical day to day, they after that point tend to reproduce like humans and other such mortal races

#

so technically there is some truth to it

true patio
#

Taking from original Tolkien lore a bit the first dwarves were statues carved by their "god" before all the other races but only released onto the world much later. D&D basically stole this lore minus the stuff that would get them sued by the Tolkien estate

calm crest
#

That’s pretty much exactly how the Krynnish proto-dwarves came to be (and how the first metallic dragons were made there).

#

As for Mystara, the dwarves there evolved naturally, but during the Rain of Colorless Fire, their patron god whisked them away to make them more radiation and magic resistant. He also got them to live deep underground to avoid future disasters.

molten merlin
#

What’s the most up-to-date lore on Maerimydra? I’m eyeing it as a potential setting for an urban Underdark campaign.

jagged apex
molten merlin
jagged apex
#

if there is anything new it would probably be in the new realms books, but they are not out until the 11th and only those with early access have access to it

little wind
#

Ok what’s actually the difference between a wizard and a sorcerer? Like I know, one is a nepo baby while the other is a nerd, but I feel like in most cases this separation is superficial. Don’t sorceress also have to learn how to do magic? Like isn’t that what “leveling up” represents? If so then what’s the difference if a sorcerer still has to learn how to manipulate the weave anyways

fervent glade
# little wind Ok what’s actually the difference between a wizard and a sorcerer? Like I know, ...

Sorcerers have innate magical abilities, they may train to control and channel those abilities but they’re not reading books to learn magic. Their magic is channeled through force of will, so charisma is their spellcasting stat. They have more raw power and can manipulate magic in unique ways through metamagic, but they also have a much smaller spell list.

Wizards learn magic through years of intense studying and of course their spellcasting stat is intelligence. They have huge spell lists and lots of utility and variety in the spells they can learn. They can switch out their spells frequently and can gain even more spells through scrolls, however they have to spend time and gold copying those into their spell book.

ember hound
#

dnd guys tell me. baldur gate which country is it located in. i know sword coast. but like is sowrd coast a country with royal family and all

grim siren
#

Baldur's Gate is an independent City State.

The Sword Coast is not a country per se. It's a geographic region like the US West Coast.

The closest nation state to Baldur's Gate is Amn to the south or Elturgard to the East.

polar snow
#

Hells, I didn't even know Elturgard was a nation (my knowledge doesn't go too far beyond 3.x)

grim siren
#

In the 4e days Elturel annexed nearby city states.

ember hound
grim siren
#

Elturgard exists on the Sword Coast region. As does the nation of Najara. But the vast majority of powers on the Sword Coast are city states with spheres of influence like Waterdeep, Silverymoon etc.

ember hound
#

i see. so baldur gate is itself a city and a country

grim siren
#

Not really a country. But operates like one. Think of places like Vatican City or Singapore. They have the same power of a full Nation state but they are just one city geographically.

jagged apex
#

closest such things nations like thay, which is specifically called a nation, much of faerun is an array of territories and kingdoms and what not

jagged apex
#

the separation is not at all superficial if you are actually paying attention, this is not warhammer where the line between the two is paper thin

#

for example, a wizard knows that a ball of bat guano and sulfur along with certain gestures and an specific incantation results in the fireball spell, where as a sorcerer just wills a fireball into existence without any real knowledge necessarily of how it works, they just know they can imagine a fireball and use their magic to manifest it

true patio
# jagged apex there are no countries as we know them on toril

Patently false. Thay controls a pretty sizable chunk of land and has multiple cities, towns, and villages under its sway complete with a standing army and a bureaucracy that collects taxes from them all. It even has public works those taxes get spent on. The government itself isn't any kind we might have on our world but we also don't have the required mages for Mageocracies.

#

There's also the various other empires to the east away from the sword coast

cloud marten
#

unther seem to have good sized territory as well

jagged apex
#

my point is to my knowledge, the term country, is not used in published materials

#

nations are the closest thing, maybe i am just splitting hairs, but i feel if there were countries as we know them at least one would actually be called a country

#

of course i could be wrong and there is just examples of the term being used in published material i am simply unaware of

snow laurel
#

I'm trying to make more sense of the new rusting curse from the Moonshae portion of the new FR book.

Moonwells being corrupted by evil magic and turning into darkwells are established, but the rusting, which creates oily liquid and covers organic life in rusty metal and turns them into constructs, is a new thing. It was supposedly created by an Amnian vampire's dying curse.

Is there anything linking Amn or vampires to rust, iron, metal, oil or cyborgs? Part of me is wondering maybe it's somehow ravenloft related

calm crest
#

Vampires are unnatural, metalworking is unnatural, iron is anti-Fey, the Moonshae Isles are natural and pro-Fey. That’s pretty much what I’ve got.

snow laurel
#

Oh iron being anti-fey is such a good point I wish they built on that

#

if they were like "rust is the cold iron that fey are weak against", brilliant, 10/10 no notes

jagged apex
#

that might help

snow laurel
#

I just feel it doesn't have much connection to the moonshaes as we know them so I'm reaching

jagged apex
#

well curses are rather vauge and can have any number of effects and as supernatural beings and undead it makes sense as well as the reasons that Thanazrael pointed out earlier

calm crest
#

Okay, there does seem to be a tentative tie to Amnian theming.

#

According to AD&D’s Lands of Intrigue, Amn ranks social classes by mineral names with “Ore” (essentially iron) being the lowest, derogatory status.

#

So literally turning those you look down on to iron could be a deliberate insult.

cloud marten
true patio
hazy fox
#

So read the new Heroes of Faerun and...
funny that they referenced NIne Golden Swords.

#

Like the book didn't mention Kara-Tur, but referenced Hordelands and "Shou Section of West Gate".

#

Mostly just most of "asian sounding" aspects cut out, but mostly basing from wiki page.
Like Golden Throne (probably Golden Master), members being "soldiers", BUT forgo with "Yakuza" and maybe "less evil" counterpart of Fire Knives (except rigid discipline that would have those who left executed).

jagged apex
#

is worth remembering the original forgotten realms as ed greenwood designed it, was not ment to have real world cultures in it, that is mostly a thing other writers added to it via wizards of the coast, plus if memory serves kara-tur was retroactively added to the realms and more specificly toril later on, originally not being part of it

#

so one could argue the removal of most "asian sounding aspects" as you put it, especially since some terms back then are in hindsight actually offensive, so in a way is sort of a return to form to a degree, plus the location is located in a part of faerun specifically, kara-tur in the realms is a seperate continent

jagged apex
hazy fox
jagged apex
hazy fox
jagged apex
#

could be they are trying to tred lightly and start small before they consider trying to reintroduce kara-tur

#

idk, i don't have access to the new books and they are not out yet, i only know what came before and what those who have read it are saying here

#

though would seem odd for them to use the terms of asians or europe at all, as those are earth specific places and peoples, not toril where faerun is, so i am skeptical to assume that is accurate and might be over simplifying or operating on some sort of misconception

#

the west gate is only one of the lands they migrated to

hazy fox
#

Yeah, I get the point.
BUT the way it described feel like "Fantasy Asian being insular and xenophobic...but mostly act as contrast to open-minded Fantasy European".
Mostly some here have issue with orientalism and idea of "Asia as violent and savage (towards foreignors)" world building.

#

Like didn't mention about locals being hostile, but mostly (wiki being based on 3e/4e) treated as danger to Faerun

jagged apex
#

that is your opinion or your interpretation, does not mean it is true or the intent, is worth keeping in mind toril is a world where things like racism are still very much a real thing as are other less savory ideas you see some try to avoid

hazy fox
#

Yeah, but most (3E/4E fluff) entry I've read, even the wiki, kinda have skewered towards Faerunians (and Shou who side with them) as "passive victim".
Even the plot hook in Xiousing being mostly Shou trying to harm Faerunians.

jagged apex
#

also kara-tur's ecosystem, even stuff like gods and the afterlife is largely removed and isolated from the rest of toril

#

well this is 5e, it's lore superseeds prior edition lore, sometimes they build on it, other times it retcons, like 4e kind of did with most things

#

older lore usually is only considered valid until contradicted by newer information in published materials

#

i can't really offer much help probably since i am not one of those people with early access

hazy fox
#

(Well, my local game store had those books)

jagged apex
#

well they are not said to be released until the 11th

calm crest
#

Other than appearing on the map, literally no mention is made of Westgate in the 2024 content. The Hordelands are given one offhand mention, and Chult gets a short section. The other continents/regions of Faerûn—Kara-Tur, Zakhara, Maztica, etc.—have only vague hints at existing at best.

jagged apex
#

some people's stores are willing to sell early or that, even if they are not suppose to, at least from what i have heard

calm crest
#

I believe there's mention of a mostly defunct trade route that is implied to be to Kara-Tur, and the possibility of sailing West to discover what lies beyond the sea (Maztica) is mentioned as a plothook with no further details. Zakhara and the other continents have no mentions.

jagged apex
#

given the wiki's description of westgate, if they are using some in universe narrations or anything like that i imagine the only one brave, or foolish, enough to go there to get more recent info on the place, is volo, who is specifically known for being an unreliable narrator

calm crest
#

Given that the sourcebook is explicitly for Faerûn, it's not surprising that it has essentially no information on regions outside of Faerûn (other than its single section on Chult, since 5e has adventures set there).

jagged apex
jagged apex
#

also seems nothing even from what is cited as holder editions like 3e would suggest the locals are hostile

#

like they cite this from the 3e forgotten realms setting guide "It was an open city that welcomed all travelers and citizens alike as long as they abided by the local laws and, of course, had enough coin."

#

and seems the 4e part that is cited about danger is just very vague and ambiguous

#

so no reason either of those would mean that the locals are hostile

#

that would just be bad for bussiness for a place ment to be a black market trade capital of sorts

hazy fox
#

Yeah, mostly just I am reading more from Xiousing article in Dragon magazine (in Cormyr) than Westgate.
Also maybe Nathlan as well with this blurb below...also there was RPG modules but feel like "triads and tongs".

By the Year of the Ageless One, 1479 DR, Nathlan was a strong and independent nation sometimes known as "the Eastern nation of the West". The country was vigilant against external influence over its affairs and tended to be wary of any outsiders, non-Shou, and non-humans. At the same time, Nathlan was also suspected of actively meddling in the affairs of its neighbors and welcomed any opportunity to extend its influence along the Dragon Coast.

hazy fox
unborn pollen
#

lorewise

#

are mummies sentient?

calm crest
#

They are both sentient and sapient. The run of the mill mummy isn’t especially intelligent (although brighter than a normal ogre or hill giant), but mummy lords and other variants can be smarter than the average human.

unborn pollen
calm crest
#

Yes, unlike the mindless automata produced by Animate Dead, Create Undead does make thinking creatures that are under a compulsion to cooperate. Mummies are lawful and thus dutiful, and they seem to have some (partial) awareness of their former lives. The 2025 Monster Manual has some examples of interests a free-willed mummy may have.

wind locust
#

I am not sure if this the right place to ask this. It is a population question in relation to elves and half elves.
If a elf has 3 children with a human when he is 100. If each child has 3 children and the pattern repeats. How many descendants it total would he have had by the time he is 700.

ember hound
#

dnd guys can a level 20 fighter punch mountain to smitherness lorewise

calm crest
#

Levels and classes aren’t diegetic. Regardless, a mortal warrior cannot punch a mountain apart.

ember hound
#

a wizard?

#

destroy mountian

#

cause he can techinally cause meteors to be summoned

ember hound
wind locust
ember hound
#

each 3 will have 3 right

wind locust
#

Yeah. I would imagine 3 generations per century

ember hound
#

math adds up if i am not wrong . we need to find the total children per 100 years mutliply by 3 and add the remianing descendents

calm crest
#

Half-elves reach maturity at about 20 years of age. So with that baseline for generational intervals and a listed time of 600 years, that would be 30 generations after the elven ancestor sired the first half-elven children. From that point it’s just a matter of mathematics. 3 children, 9 grandchildren, 27 great-grandchildren, all the way to over 200 trillion descendants in the 30th generation. Granted, this assumes that each descendant reaches maturity and that no overlap occurs even dozens of generations removed from a shared ancestor.

wind locust
#

That is more like the numbers I was expecting

calm crest
#

So about 3 x 10^14 total hypothetical descendants given the rate of half-elf maturation.

ember hound
#

i thought it was de facto each generation can only have 3 child

wind locust
#

Thank you for your help. I am here asking the important questions.

calm crest
#

If you’re going by an estimated generation of 33 years, it comes down to 581 million descendants total over 18 generations.

ember hound
#

haha i only thought like 100 years 3 child 200 years 3x3 child. 300 years 9x3

wind locust
#

That is a lot of birthday presents

calm crest
#

Even in settings where magical healing and disease curing exist, infant mortality is still high.

#

So it’s unlikely that rate would be sustainable in anything more than a hypothetical.

calm crest
# ember hound a wizard?

Yes, although such magic has traditionally required spells of 10th or greater level, which generally don’t function in Realmspace (and are only ambiguously extant elsewhere).

wind locust
calm crest
#

Pedigree collapse is also certain to occur in a sample that many generations removed.

#

Given that no Prime Material world has 300 trillion combined humans, elves, and half-elves to my knowledge.

brazen atlas
calm crest
# wind locust It is an interesting thought experiment though

Half-elves that reach maturity have an estimated lifespan of 180 years, which cuts down on the simultaneously living relatives, but with the three generations of three children each per century model, it doesn’t impact the numbers too much. Even if only the final four or five generations live to see the all-father elf on his deathbed at the tragically young age of 700, that’s still well over half a billion several-greats-grandchildren.

wind locust
calm crest
#

Indeed it is. There’s a reason elves tend to have a low birth rate.

cloud marten
#

I didn't remember that half-dragons are thing and are basically what I thought dragonborn to be before getting into DnD

calm crest
#

2024 half-dragons saw a major revamp, to the point where the name is pretty much a misnomer.

cloud marten
#

oh sure but I was referring to how they were in 2014 version

calm crest
#

Fair.

wind locust
cloud marten
#

so basically Frieren then

#

also Deedlit in that one game

snow laurel
#

Is there any reference in 5e to get creatures being weak to or having a special relationship to iron or specifically cold iron?

dark comet
snow laurel
#

I'm trying to do a bit of head canon or lore weaving with the new rusted plague in the moonshaes in FR and I was thinking of maybe tying rust and iron, cold iron and fairies all together

#

I think back in 3rd edition cold iron basically did extra damage to Fey creatures in the same way that silver did extra damage to werewolves

#

But since then I don't think anything has been published about it

dark comet
#

Yeah, it's usually talked about in specific monster/race blocks. So for example, in the SRD, Fey type makes no mention of (cold) iron.

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#feyType

But in something like Frostburn, the Uldra entry says this (emphasis mine):

Fey Blood: Uldras are fey, and as such they are not subject to spells that specifi cally target humanoids, such as charm person or hold person. Likewise, effects that affect fey affect uldras as well. They possess no particular weakness against cold iron, although they find it uncomfortable to the touch, similar to the sensation of holding a rotting fish in your hand.

snow laurel
#

So even in 3e it was built into the statblock rather than being an overall lore/creature type thing

plain spear
#

Idk if this goes here but is anyone studying the elvish script?

arctic rampart
#

If you are looking for something to be written in elvish script I think you can download it as a font but if you are looking for something to be translated into elvish I think you can find an online translator.

jagged apex
#

at least in one of the most well explored settings such as the forgotten realms we know of a few elven words, same goes for other races but neither language is fully detailed and would be from a certain perspective be incomplete and sometimes these words are setting specific https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Elven_dictionary

#

assuming your question is you trying to ask about the elvish language in dnd, else not entirely sure is really a lore question

arctic rampart
#

That's true, if all else fails just use french

jagged apex
#

or what ever you want for your own games, the published lore is more of a default rather than the end all be all

unborn pollen
#

Would Magic Jar be the first step to Lichdom?

calm crest
#

It is not. The methods to become a lich are varied and complex, but don’t generally involve specific spells.

#

Magic Jar can be used as an alternative to lichdom, but it’s definitely not an infallible means of immortality.

jagged apex
#

there are multiple ways to achieve lichdom in dnd, not all of them known or known in detail

arctic rampart
#

If your character is wanting to be a lich it would be best to talk to your DM. Lore wise you don't need to sacrifice a soul to become a lich but soul sacrifices are necessary to maintain the magic that sustains your undead form and phylactery

jagged apex
#

the most well known process to achieve lichdom in the lore is rather complex and a bit of a gamble and has hyper specific steps and ingredients that require very evil acts to even acquire

jagged apex
# arctic rampart If your character is wanting to be a lich it would be best to talk to your DM. L...

well that is the maintenance cost of sorts, once every 10 years minimum, at least to my knowledge you have to feed a sentient being's soul to your phylactery to maintain your own mind and existence, destroying the soul in the process which is considered a universally evil act, do to you basically denying them their natural fate in the afterlife, so even if you only targeted the most vile beings in existence, it is equally evil in the eyes of the cosmos as any other's soul

#

this is what the latest setting agnostic lore has to say on the matter "The process of becoming a lich is involved, dangerous, and unique to each would-be lich. If the rite succeeds, the lich’s soul is bound to a spirit jar, a specially prepared magical repository. This relic anchors the lich’s spirit to the world and preserves it should the lich’s body be destroyed. A lich can be slain only if its spirit jar is ruined. As such, a lich goes to great lengths to hide and protect its spirit jar." end quote

#

it also then goes into a sample table of examples of what these spirit jars can look like, historically these were known as phylactries

#

i can see why you might have thought "magic jar" was involved, but that is not the same as a "spirit jar" to my knowledge

calm crest
#

Generally Orcus can help grease the wheels to becoming a lich, but the process is challenging (unless you accidentally got turned into one by Karsus).

arctic rampart
#

Not to mention there are a few different varieties of riches, for example an Archlich is a good aligned lich that doesn't sacrifice souls to maintain their undeath

calm crest
#

Not to be confused with the non-good Archliches that are just particularly powerful normal liches.

jagged apex
#

and while technically 3rd party and specific to it's own setting, grim hallow offers some stuff on lichdom especially for players to achieve, but regardless if you use that or not, it is something you need to talk to your GM about and work out with them, the lore especially published lore can't really help beyond provide pre-existing examples and info, which your dm/gm is not nessissarily bound to

velvet tide
#

Okay all I know Shar is evil but like how evil? Worse than bane? Or vecna?

true patio
#

She's the closest the setting has to a "God of Evil"

#

But to really answer that it's sort of complex because that's a gross oversimplification

#

But how evil something is to you is subjective

#

And bringing up talks of objective evil of alignment isn't going to go anywhere good.

dire olive
#

Alignments being actual forces in the multiverse of dnd always trips me up

jagged apex
#

it is a nuanced thing, evil can include anything from selfishness to genuine malice

jagged apex
# velvet tide Okay all I know Shar is evil but like how evil? Worse than bane? Or vecna?

it is not evil in that way, evil is not the shallow "bad" that most over simplify thing as, alignment is more nuanced in dnd, whether or not they are worse than another evil aligned deity is largely subjective, so i'd look more so to their personality than their alignment for to make such a comparison which again is gunna largely be subjective and not objectively worse than others

#

like i'd argue vecna is more evil, as his goals are to basically be the god above all other gods, rather than focusing on his role as the god of evil secrets

jagged apex
dire olive
#

Ty

true patio
#

Suffice to say they labeled actual philosophical schools of thought along what they thought they would be in alignment and assigned them to a given plane of the great wheel

#

Altruism and Randianism being the diametrically opposed "Good" and "Evil" respectively.

jagged apex
#

alternatively i feel dnd beyond's articles "Breaking Down Alignment in D&D" and "Alignment 101: Different Approaches and Ways to Utilize It in Your Game" are useful in that regard

merry rune
#

She definitely is evil but it's like the kind of evil that a very lonely person who was shunned by society may come to see as good.

#

It's the kind of evil you can rationalise.

#

Vecnar and Bane are horrific.

#

You can somewhat rationalise them with "might makes right" but that's not as much "morally grey" as the whole Shar thing.

velvet tide
#

In my campaign bane is the main bad guy

#

But I want to have an evil female goddess as kind of like a counterpart

#

Because he’s creating a vessel for reincarnation and I thought it might be weird if a male god possessed a woman so I’m trying to find a good one

#

Like a good evil goddess if that makes sense

merry rune
#

Shar seems like an alright one for that.

#

She is evil but it comes from this weird wannabe yinyan dynamic and feelings of pain and being rejected.

velvet tide
#

I understand

eager bay
#

So, currently with the new books, what is the situation in the Ultheric lands? Gilgeam is a god emperor and his kingdom is a dystopia?

merry rune
#

I assume you mean Unther?

#

Just fyi, unless I'm wrong.

grim siren
#

Gilgeam sucks and his country is in a hellish state. Tymanther was destroyed.

cloud marten
#

as name Gilgeam seems to be variation of name Gilgamesh

merry rune
#

Unther is overall that region in inspiration.

grim siren
#

He is Gilgamesh.

#

Powers and Pantheons P.102 list Gilgamesh amongst his other names.

#

Considering he came with the Untheric and Mulhorani Pantheons when the Imaskari stole people from earth. That is indeed him.

merry rune
#

Ah

#

I did know about Mulhorand due to my egyptian paladin.

jagged apex
# velvet tide But I want to have an evil female goddess as kind of like a counterpart

well while a female counterpart is not really a thing, in the lore historically bane has working relationships with the gods Loviatar, who was previously the queen to bane and is the goddess of pain, Talona who is the goddess of poison and disease, and Mask the god of thieves
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Bane#Relationships
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Loviatar
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Talona
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mask

#

so if you are trying to stick to published lore, Loviatar would be who you want as bane's consort as that is her relationship to him historically when he he came back after being destroyed

jagged apex
#

so especially in your own games you can have fun with the idea that this ain't the original that was around prior to his death back in the day

eager bay
#

thank you all

merry rune
tardy wasp
#

Does the veneration of the moon in the Moonshaes have any connection to gods like Selune or Eilistraee in the new FR books?

jagged apex
#

but if it helps his portfolio is that of Ambition, Control, and Tyranny

#

perhaps one of them could be a good candidate for a counterpart

#

if wanting to stick with evil deities and preexisting connections, Talona is among such entities as is Lolth, Kiaransalee, Beshaba, ect...

shell quest
#

Hi! Were there stories in D&D where a Clone or a Simulacrum became their own being separate from their original?

feral lintel
#

check out the founder of the Zhents; Manshoon

#

Hes basically the Doctor Doom of DND, even had a war against his clones

#

(well, they all had a war with each other)

woeful dome
#

Anyone have any favourite bits of lore from the Spellplague? I'd doing a campaign set during it and looking for some good threads to tie in

calm crest
#

The modern non-demilich Acererak seems to be an ascended Simulacrum created when Acererak was still a lich. It successfully made itself into a full being.

jagged apex
jagged apex
# feral lintel Hes basically the Doctor Doom of DND, even had a war against his clones

to my knowledge it was more accurately a side effect along with the rest of the situation that caused multiple clones to become active at the same time, when in close proximity they would be compelled to eliminated any other manshoons in the area, if memory serves 2 of them even disintigrated each other outside someone's house because they both intended to visit the person that dwelled there

jagged apex
#

also personally i would not call him the doctor doom of dnd, as some key elements are missing to make that analogy or parallel accurate

#

would certainly say vecna is closer to such a position

unborn pollen
#

Necromancy question

#

So, is it possible for a sentient resurrected undead to NOT try and kill you when the spell wears off?

static trench
#

To quote the Genasi page on the Forgotten realms wiki:

"After the Spellplague, when the separate elemental planes coalesced into the Elemental Chaos,[18] each genasi gained the potential to manifest the power of any of the elements, though only one at a time.[4] After the Second Sundering, the genasi were again separated into the four major subraces of air, earth, fire, and water."

I've gathered that Elemental Chaos was apparently different in 4e and 5e, and thus effected 4e Genasi and 5e Genasi differently. To put things into perspective somewhat, Elemental chaos ended in the late 1480's, and Princes of the Apocalypse (the sourcebook that introduces Genasi in 5e) takes place in 1491 (and makes no mention of different element manifestation).

Can someone verify and also explain exactly how elemtental chaos differs in 4e and 5e?

calm crest
calm crest
static trench
static trench
calm crest
#

Yes, that’s correct.

upbeat gate
#

What books have the most about elves! And or adventures with elves etc??

jagged apex
#

given how often they are involved in many settings, not sure there is any one answer, or at least there is probably too many to make a definitive answer

#

but for the forgotten realms a good place to start would be the books cited on the race's wiki page

#

if not any setting specifically, you are probably gunna have a hard time finding an answer from the shear amount of possible sources

obsidian knoll
#

The A in my AD&D stands for autism

#

The Book of Elves has a good synopsis of how elves work in each different setting, there's even a lineage tree of sorts for each different subrace

dark comet
#

For 3.5E, there’s Races of the Wild. There’s a chapter dedicated to elves (and one for halflings and raptorans).

It’s part of the “Races of” series (destiny and dragons).

polar snow
sinful inlet
#

O

true patio
#

Would you, if you found a fresh cheeseburger, complete with a glass of delicious lemonaid, at a cookout choose to not have the best meal of your life if you just walked out of the desert? Keep in mind you're actually still in the desert and this is likely the only food you'll get or have gotten for a long... long long... eternity.

#

For a freshly made undead it's exponentially worse because... they've not eaten yet. Like ever.

dark comet
polar snow
#

Iirc there were articles on the WotC site to integrate new classes into the FR, not sure about races tho

fallow leaf
#

One small change without much explanation I found kind of strange was how chessenta’s religion is described as “alien” multiple times. Like in previous sources they had some unique gods, sure. Or at least the duties of specific gods was unique, “alien” wouldn’t be how I’d really describe it. Tchazzar is the main example, and him being a dragon wasn’t mentioned. I’m wondering the purpose of it is all

dire olive
#

How detailed is the Beastlands? Like how much is written for it? The only things I know about its existence is it appears in the DMG, and Animal lords mention it, but I know nothing else

#

Are there any places in it? Any characters from it?

#

I’ve always been curious about it

true patio
arctic rampart
prisma siren
#

Planes of Conflict has the most information on it that I know of

#

~20 pages

merry rune
#

I just found a book in Baldur's Gate 3 that does mention a topic I was wondering about.

#

The descent of Elturel DID cause humanoids to be transformed into tieflings.

#

They're not just refugees from Elturgard who were kicked out after living there as tieflings before the crisis. Some of them actually did turn into tieflings with the crisis as part of the gambit.

#

Is Baldur's Gate 3 actually meant to be a lore source?

#

At least the things you don't influence as your party.

unkempt merlin
#

BG3 is at least partially canon lore yes

zenith dust
#

it's too bad, the uhhhh clumsy way they handle certain topics and force them into woobie/waifu stuff is kinda stomach churning

#

"it's D&D you can play anything!"
"can I play someone who doesn't have a 6 pack?"
"lol, lmao even. You can play anything *that falls within a bracket of conventionally attractive"

#

we need a new eberron game instead

merry rune
#

I disagree

obsidian gate
#

giving players total character creation freedom does come with drawbacks, especially in a game with so many scenes where the models interact with each other

#

so it makes sense that they stuck to a few basic body shapes

#

not sure what you mean with woobie/waifu stuff. the writing in BG3 is excellent for the most part

zenith dust
#

"we need a new eberron game" the we refers to myself and other eberron fans

#

I wish Larian knew how to write characters that weren't just there for dating / fixing with romance. and I doubly wish they weren't so clumsy with their exploration of trauma

#

but that's something that predates BG3 - divinity had it too.

#

I'd love an eberron game set on the mainland somewhere (other than sharn)

#

but like.. let Owlcat do it or something

jagged apex
#

there are plenty of characters that at least to me with what i know of the published lore is good writing given the characters and has nothing to do with being involved in dating or romance

#

plus even then, the characters that are romanceable are very much there for something other than romance, so seems odd to me to describe any of them as being characters just there for romance

#

plus there are some idk if i'd necessarily call their explorations of their histories as "trauma", most notably gale's

jagged apex
#

has at least 3 layers with their own articles, but not invoked as often as other planes to my knowledge

#

and historically at least several gods of the forgotten realms used to have divine realms there, such as Denier, Ferrix, Mielikki, Ubtao, ect...

dire olive
#

Oh sweet!

dire olive
#

Ty Scarletsteam

dire olive
#

I’ll be sure to find those books after looking through the wiki

jagged apex
dire olive
#

Oh excellent

#

Ty

zenith dust
#

That and the "hilarious" scene where your party member who was a victim of SA urges you to break in to a barn where two folks are having sex and mock them

#

Honestly these are "lovable" characters only in that they were made conventionally attractive and you can use your protagonist lovemaking to fix them

#

Really amateur low hanging fruit stuff that gets overlooked because astarion is pretty and karlach is mommy or whatever

jagged apex
#

eh, disagree, i personally don't find any one of them attrative on their own

zenith dust
#

Larian has always been loose with consent. Ik divinity 2 I was nibbled on and licked by an elf when I said to piss off

#

It's fine because quirky or hot or whatever

jagged apex
#

honestly i find their designs nice but love them more for their character, especially karlach, she is one of my favorites because of her personality as a character more than anything

zenith dust
#

I'm glad larian isn't involved in more d&d games right now

jagged apex
#

well this is not really the place for talk on a video game let alone the meta stuff that went into it

zenith dust
#

Ah, probably should have said that before talking about it I suppose

jagged apex
#

personally i love bg3, if you disagree, fair, opinions are opinions

zenith dust
#

I'd love to see Owlcat take on a turn based eberron game. Set in droaam or something

jagged apex
#

i would say more but i again feel talk on a game, let alone opinions on it is beyond what this channel is ment for

zenith dust
#

Doesn't excuse them writing in a lack of concern for consent

#

Well each time the convo winds down you're tossing in a response to keep it going, so you might as well go on

dire olive
#

As a pansexual person, I find all of them attractive

#

But other than that, this topic is too heavy for me to weigh in on

zenith dust
#

oh I don't disagree with that, they are designed to be conventionally attractive - all within a degree or two of baseline "this is what teen boys like" but with a few tweaks for specific fetishes

#

I mean ultimately all of the marketing for the game was about bangin' . it's no surprise that it is what either makes or breaks someone's enjoyment

jagged apex
#

would be nice to get back to lore

obsidian knoll
obsidian knoll
merry rune
#

I need a hero.

#

What are giants actually?

#

With all the lore I have looked at about them, I still don't have this answered.

#

Do they come from primordials and the elemental planes?

#

Like dragons iirc, just in different ways

#

Which also explains why they were at war with each other before the smallfolk humanoids kinda took over.

feral lintel
merry rune
#

So they don't have like a thing describing what they are at their core, like with other species?

#

I think dragons too have lore and it's why their corpses fuse with the world instead of dying like normal things sometimes.

#

Something about draconic souls being part of the material plane because the material planes is formed from the elemental planes, which they are connected to.

#

I have nothing on dragons.

feral lintel
#

From Bigby's:

The descendants of Annam are the various creatures of the Giant creature type. The precise details of genealogy linking Annam to these Giants are a matter of mythology, and myths vary from world to world and from one teller to another. Most tellings make a distinction between the main families of giants who are descended from the sons of Annam and the various other creatures whose origins are murkier.

#

The story is unusual among the sagas of the giants in its description of Annam’s deeds “in time’s dawning.” It boldly claims Annam collected the fragments of the First World—the original world of the Material Plane, created by the primordial dragons Bahamut and Tiamat—and contributed in some way to their transformation into the Material Plane as it exists today with its myriad worlds. Other sagas claim Annam was similarly instrumental in the creation of the Inner Planes, slowly sorting the tumult of the Elemental Chaos until the four Elemental Planes took shape. These sagas explain the giants’ close ties to the elemental forces of air, earth, fire, and water by pointing to Annam’s early efforts in the Elemental Planes.

merry rune
#

Mmh very nice stuff. I did see the first part but not the second.

jagged apex
merry rune
#

I am so deep in again that I forgot what I needed this for.... Oh, right. I am homebrewing a magic item. Thank you very much

merry rune
#

Feel free to post more information if you feel like it. I always enjoy reading it.

jagged apex
#

the dragons being tied to the material plane is a more recent idea for the 5e continuity involving the first world

#

to quote fizban's treasury of dragons "
“Elegy for the First World” is an ancient Draconic poem of unknown origin, found with minor variations in the collections and traditions of dragons across many worlds of the Material Plane. Various creation myths told on different worlds echo some of the themes and notions of this poem, particularly when they describe dragons or draconic gods being involved in creating the world. But the heart of the poem is a profound assertion not found in any of those individual myths.
The elegy suggests that before the myriad worlds of the Material Plane came into being, before Oerth and Toril and Eberron and Krynn existed, the primordial dragons—Bahamut and Tiamat—worked together to create the Material Plane in the form of a single First World. All the worlds that now constitute the plane are, in the words of the poem, “seedling realities” formed when the First World was sundered in some unexplained catastrophe.

#

The story told in “Elegy for the First World” suggests a number of truths regarding the nature of dragons. First, it portrays the ten varieties of metallic and chromatic dragons as the first inhabitants of the Material Plane. Dragons were made to populate the First World before any other worlds came into being, but they were supplanted by the teeming peoples that the gods of the Outer Planes brought to inhabit that world. The elegy likewise suggests that dragons are living embodiments of the primordial energy of the First World, which now flows throughout the Material Plane, and that they are thus inextricably linked to the magic of that plane. The religions of numerous worlds teach that Humanoids are creatures of a dual nature—part material and part spiritual, made of the essence of both the Material Plane and the otherworldly Outer Planes. But dragons, at least in the view of “Elegy for the First World,” are wholly material, dwelling in the Material Plane and embodying its essential nature.

#

Many worlds have myths and legends about Bahamut and Tiamat, though these primordial dragons are sometimes known by other names. But “Elegy for the First World” differs from nearly all those legends in its mention of Sardior, “first-born of dragonkind.” The poem suggests that Bahamut and Tiamat created Sardior together, and that “ruby-red” Sardior then joined with Bahamut to craft the metallic dragons and with Tiamat to craft the chromatic dragons. Some dragons who have studied the poem believe that Sardior was destroyed and shattered along with the First World and that the Ruby Dragon’s splintered consciousness became the gem dragons on the new worlds of the Material Plane." end quote

#

this among many other things relating to it, is covered in the sourcebook fizban's treasury of dragon's

#

bigby's glory of the giants is a similar sourcebook that focuses on giants in the same or at least a similar manner and even mentions the first world in some of it's lore, also sorry for the wall of text