#dnd-lore

1 messages · Page 84 of 1

dire olive
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Ooooh

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Anything on why he was exiled?

jagged apex
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that goes into his lore from older editions

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to partially quote that part of his history as described on the wiki "After the archdevils were defeated, Geryon urged Malagard to give Moloch another poor recommendation—to stand defiant against Asmodeus in the face of defeat. Moloch foolishly went along with Malagard's plan, having been convinced that by remaining stalwart the Lord of Nessus would respect his strength, going so far as to practically spit in his master's face. This led to Moloch being promptly and angrily disowned by Asmodeus for his impertinence, although despite being totally loyal, Geryon was also abandoned, and to Malagard being raised in his place and becoming the Hag Countess. Malagard's first act as the Hag Countess was to exile her lover to the Material Plane, a place he despised, in a ball of fire, although it was said he was supposed to have been killed and that he only escaped with quick use of a planar portal." end quote

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literally believed it when another of the same failed archdevils told him that the ultimate ruler of the 9 hells would respect him if he stood up to him and did not back down, only to learn just how wrong such a plan was

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honestly, he is lucky to still be alive, had he wanted, asmodeus easily could have given him a fate worse than death

dire olive
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Poor fella

jagged apex
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eh, just another day in the 9 hells, asmodeus literally designed the 9 hells to basically be like bussiness and politics on steroids, such fools are aguably not fit for their position if they can be manipulated that easily

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as the plane of lawful evil, naturally the 9 hells is basically the ultimate bureaucracy since the beings there are lawful evil incarnate

dire olive
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Can we talk about the fact that hell is literally a capitolist society? /j

jagged apex
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oh it is not, capitolisim would be something else

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only fiends that really care about material wealth are usually the yugoloths, far as i know the devils of the 9 hells only use any to pay the yugoloths when hiring them to aid them against the demons

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for most of the lower planes, the main resource is souls, and the soul trade is run by the night hags of hades

dire olive
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Don't they trade using souls?

dire olive
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Oh well dw, I was just making a joke

jagged apex
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as a plane of lawful evil, the souls that wind up there often are too ridged to easily make into the desired creature, same with the chaotic nature of demons when they try doing it, the neutral evil souls of hades are just right for both so are rather valuable cuz they are so much easier to use for a number of purposes

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one bit of trade is noted on the wiki "Inhabitants of the Nine Hells produced goods exported across the planes, including to the planar City of Doors, Sigil. Green Baator ore and steel smelted from it was mined in Avernus. Another notable export was Baator's own whiskey. It was a pleasantly-smelling steaming-hot drink that resembled boiling goldflow. When consumed, it burned one's stomach with sweet pain. Very few mortals could stomach even a single shot." end quote

dire olive
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ty

jagged apex
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honestly to my knowledge most of hell's soceity is geared towards internal stuff, fighting demons and recruiting new souls for the army to fight said demons

dire olive
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Oh yeah the blood war

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forgor

jagged apex
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so while they may trade in souls, is not likely to be a major focus unless i am mistaken

dire olive
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Still, people's descriptions of the nine hells makes me think of irl /lh

jagged apex
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well yeah there are similarities but is very alien compared to us, many devils have to learn or relearn how to think like mortals to better manipulate them from what i am aware of

dire olive
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Sounds like businesses trying to be human

jagged apex
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but is no surprise given how fundamentally different extra planar life is to those on the prime material plane basically mortals such as humans and other such races

maiden heart
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Well the more souls a devil has under the control, the more power they have. That is definitely something important to them. Id imagine they'd be quite interested in the soup trade from the perspective of using their capital and influence to horde as many as high quality souls as they can.

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Obviously using these souls for the blood war is really important to them.

jagged apex
naive root
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What can you tell me about the origins of Araakocra? Where did they come from? How do they deal with their short lifespans? Gods and religion? Natural predators?

jagged apex
jagged apex
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where as in their latest setting angostic lore, the monster manual has thus to say "Aarakocra are birdlike folk who soar the skies of countless worlds and the endless expanses of the Elemental Plane of Air. They often resemble avians common to the lands where they dwell; some resemble hawks or condors, while others appear similar to hummingbirds or archaeopteryxes. In many lands, aarakocra tell of their ancient heroics resisting the wicked Queen of Chaos alongside the mysterious Wind Dukes of Aaqa." end quote

naive root
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Perfekt, thx

jagged apex
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one of my personal favorite tidbits about their lore historically, least far as i am aware is them being claustrophobic basically, which makes sense when venturing underground since that is basically the complete opposite of what they would be use to from the elemental plane of air, and not really having a concept of private property at least in the context of domesticated animals as to them any animals in their territory are fair game for hunting

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so you'd be very unlikely to see an aarakocra sleeping in an inn or tavern, would be more likely to see them sleeping on the roof which i kind of find funny

white nest
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I'm exploring the elven conquest of Arborea as a backdrop in my next game. Corellon the Colonizer! Doesn't sound too good, does it? Little wonder the Seldarine cover that part of their history up

clever river
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I forgot if it was canon, or homebrew, but I remember a theory that original the seldarine are descendent of spirits from pandemonium

white nest
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Interesting! That would make sense given their chaotic nature, and Ysgard's proximity to Limbo

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As far back as I know, the Seldarine originated in Ysgard, invaded Arborea and kicked out the giants, and called that their new home. Not aware of anything before that really.

clever river
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That is the ‘settled lore’

clever river
eager bay
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Are different settings supposed to be like different regions of the same region or smthn or like completely separate universes from each other?

feral lintel
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Settings are seperate worlds from each other

clever river
# eager bay Are different settings supposed to be like different regions of the same region ...

Depends on which settings. Some exist on the same planet (Forgotten Realms, Land of Fate, Kara Tur, etc), while others are stand alone by themselves (Eberron). Most settings were connected in 2e by Spelljammer (which officially connected Dragonlace, Greyhawk, and the Forgotten Realms).

Naturally, the MTG settings (Ravnica, Theros, Strixhaven, etc) are connected canonically as well

eager bay
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So basically stuff is said to be connected and otherwise isn’t typically? Unless it’s obviously the same world like the MTG settings?

clever river
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However, some settings have been connected together

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Most haven’t though

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(Mystara, birthright, blood isles, Eberron, etc)

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(Although I’ll let the Eberron enthusiast weigh in for Eberron)

pallid flower
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Eberron’s sort of in between, it’s hidden away in the ethereal plane
It’s optional whether or not the Ring of Syberis is intact, which prevents travel into and out of Eberron (basically do whatever fits your campaign best)

clever river
eager bay
clever river
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You can search for this maps, but they aren’t ‘canon’

clever river
grim siren
clever river
grim siren
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Mystara is also linked to Spelljammer

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You find an official Mystara spelljammer adventure here.

Richard Baker III, David "Zeb" Cook, Bruce Nesmith, First Quest: Adventure Book, 1994, (TSR Inc.), ISBN 1-56076-844-4, Across Wildspace!, pages 45-53

clever river
clever river
grim siren
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Yea worlds and realms makes it clear it was or was supposed to be in wildspace. But it had been moved.

clever river
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Dastardly immortals!

grim siren
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This is likely something that would have occurred over time. Given that the Phlogiston does not exist anymore it's a bit of a moot point. My point being in the 2e era days Mystara connected to wildspace was a thing.

clever river
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And I use Nerik’s map for canon, so it’s definitely true for me

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But that’s not official

grim siren
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When Athas was thrown into wildspace but clearly stated that its true location is unknown or completely unreachable.

clever river
grim siren
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Been there myself hence why I use sources when I can.

final ice
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Who is hadar

calm crest
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Hadar is an Elder Evil, specifically a malignant star from the Far Realm.

cinder cloud
dire olive
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Can you breathe in the astral plane?

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I'd assume so because Githyanki live there. I'm just making sure

cinder cloud
# dire olive Can you breathe in the astral plane?

Revised my answer, as I grabbed the wrong section of text. Yes, you can breathe in the Astral Sea (but not Wildspace)

The Astral Sea not only has gravity but also breathable, comfortable air. But is the air real, or does this heavenly realm merely trick creatures into thinking they're breathing? In the Astral Sea, one can never be certain. All that really matters is that a creature can survive indefinitely in the Astral Sea, never aging and never feeling hunger or thirst.
Source: Astral Adventurer's Guide, 5e

unkempt merlin
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Thats only for the wildspace portion of the Astral sea. Once you are out of wildspace, you no longer need to breath

dire olive
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Question

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What's wildspace?

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I know almost nothing about Spelljammer

unkempt merlin
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Wildspace is the boundary area between the material and the astral

Wildspace is where the Astral Plane overlaps with the Material Plane. Creatures and objects in Wildspace age normally and exist on both planes simultaneously. This overlap enables creatures to use spells such as teleport and teleportation circle to travel from Wildspace to a nearby world, or vice versa.

feral lintel
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In eberron, which dragonmarked house would be associated with commerce or merchants?

clever river
feral lintel
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ic ic, thank you!

timid tendon
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Orien does overland transpo, Lyrandar does air and water, Kundarak does banking, Deneith does mercenary work, Jorasco does medicine, etc

nimble grotto
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any suggestions for a hometown in faerun to a noble family thats fallen into hardtimes due to some kind overwhelming calamity nearby killing off a decent chunk of their notable members? i think i saw Damara cause of its proximity to the spellplague but id like to know others

timid tendon
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Narratively theyre the reason why everyone uses the standard PHB price lists

So your greatsword is 50gp anywhere where the House's presence is active

timid tendon
jagged apex
timid tendon
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Oh yeah Sembia
The Shadevar collaborateurs

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*Shadovar

shell tendon
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If a Warlock makes a pact with a fiend, do they automatically forfeit their soul as a part of said pact? I've heard it's possible, at least lore wise? Like, either it can be selling your soul to them or making a pact? It wouldn't have to be both, right?

clever river
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Sometimes you sign away your soul directly via a pact

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Other pacts/deals tempt mortals into violating divine law (such as black magic, desecrating relics, killing priests, etc) and thus via the pact primeval their souls are sent to be punished

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The classic soul selling pact is called a Pact Certain

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While the slowly corrupting one is called a Pact Insidious

clever river
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Pact Insidious though are much easier to pass off

shell tendon
clever river
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  1. Demon or devil?
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Devils are lawful, but evil. They make pacts, twist them, but uphold them

shell tendon
# clever river 2. Demon or devil?

Devil! And yeah, I know stuff like that can be flexible, I just never actually played before so I want to approach a table as lore friendly as possible whenever I end up trying to join one

clever river
shell tendon
clever river
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There’s also some YouTubers I could suggest

clever river
shell tendon
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very much so, D&D lore is deep so i try to tackle it one thing at a time LOL, so I see this thing is from 3.5? At least that's the first thing that popped up. Just because it's an older version of the game doesn't make the lore less credible, right? Just the mechanics change?

clever river
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And generally older edition lore is canon, unless contradicted

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Some people even enjoy previous over current (like the phlogiston)

shell tendon
clever river
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I got to put my knowledge of Tharizdun’s mistake to use

eager bay
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I sorta have a lore question regarding Vecna

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I know that Vecna gets very powerful in earlier editions, like when he broke into Sigil as a Greater God. Are we to believe that Vecna would know every spell under the Wizard spell-list?

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I want to know if Vecna would be capable of casting spells like Unname and Energy Drain in 3.5e

obsidian gate
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probably? but if its not god-vecna, he cant have them all prepared I think

eager bay
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Riiight, preparing spells is another thing

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But I'm talking about Vecna as a god, yeah

obsidian gate
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I mean there really arent rules for gods when it comes to this

eager bay
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I guess I'm just assuming since he is wizard, being a lich, and wizards learn spells through study, and he's thousands of years old, so it feels right

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It was just something that was brought up in a discussion with some friends

jagged apex
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vecna is also the god of evil secrets and a major contributor to the contents of the book of vile darkness

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as a god he can do what a god of his status and position can do, but often approaches things as he would back when he was a wizard or lich, but he is if i had to guess more capable of making use of his divine abilities than say the dead 3 who often wind up just thinking and acting like powerful mortals

shell tendon
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@clever river Here to bother you with another question! I was reading up on the Great Old One, and from what I'm seeing is no one can ever really understand the beings that offer the warlocks their power, the warlocks just have enough knowledge to wield the powers that the Great Old Ones offer?

clever river
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The Far Realm (where these Great Old Ones usually reside) is outside of the Multiverse

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No as in, outside of the Material Plane, or outside of the inner planes, etc. Its literally outside of DND Reality

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Which necessarily makes it hard to understand the things there

jagged apex
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eh, is where some great old ones reside, the term is broader than most believe it to be

clever river
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Some Great Old Ones have lore, and can be...... lets go with touched (like Tharizdun and Zargon)

clever river
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Like Dendar, Zargon, Tharizdun, and more are all not in the Far Realm

jagged apex
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to partially quote the latest lore based flavor text regarding great old ones from 2024 "you might bind yourself to an unspeakable being from the Far Realm or an elder god—a being such as Tharizdun, the Chained God; Zargon, the Returner; Hadar, the Dark Hunger; or Great Cthulhu." end quote

shell tendon
# clever river 1. It depends on how the DM runs this 2. Generally yes

Yeah, because I'm trying to wrap my mind around it, because like I said I'd like to approach a table with the most basic approach with all lore abiding stuff so that I can adjust from there!

I REALLY like the Great Old Ones telepathy thing where they can communicate through the mind and whatnot (idk why i just gave the definition of telepathy??) but yes, they seem fun I just want to wrap my head around it and how I'd explain my guy gaining his powers without being ' I read ancient text '

jagged apex
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some of these examples given we know for a fact are not of the far realm or at least do not reside there

shell tendon
jagged apex
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the main requirement for a great old one patron is that they are a powerful entity that is often beyond mortal comprehension

jagged apex
clever river
clever river
jagged apex
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in fact a 3rd party/partnered sourcebook on dnd beyond is centered around chulthu, even having a statblock

clever river
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Or Tharizdun (the creator of the Abyss)

shell tendon
shell tendon
jagged apex
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the important thing to know about dnd's versions of these existing beings from our own world's myths and mythologies is they are dnd's versions of them and are not ment to be 1 to 1 and at best tend to be similar but have suble differences

clever river
jagged apex
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"dark magic" is not really a thing in dnd to my knowledge, there is shadow magic, and the great old one specifically calls the power it grants to the warlock as "strange magic"

clever river
shell tendon
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I will say in my hunt for a class, I often found myself trying to find one that is really strong because I always wanted to be reliable to help save the party if they got in trouble LOL, but, I think from an RP standpoint I've really enjoyed how Warlocks can have an intense story

jagged apex
shell tendon
jagged apex
jagged apex
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honestly would be more accurate to describe the magic as strange or alien

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is basically logical vs illogical

shell tendon
# jagged apex https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Obyrith

Would it drive a human insane because like their build / structure wouldn't be able to be comprehend or is it some inherent magic to their bodies? I wonder. But these things relate to the Great Old Ones in some sense, right? Because they predate the gods like the Great Old Ones do?

jagged apex
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to beings of the far realm and many similar unknowable entities concepts like law and logic are meaningless

clever river
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Kinda like a 'missing texture' glitch from a video game

jagged apex
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yeah part of her conceal ment is reality actively refuses to accept her form, it is just too alien and horrific

clever river
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As for other Obyrith's, their 'racial' ability is maddness, I beleive

jagged apex
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as part of the description cited in older lore "Besides the cloak, only white, gossamer hairs concealed her incorporeal visage, preventing onlookers from glimpsing the true, maddening wrongness of her existence"

shell tendon
jagged apex
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it literally describes her existance as in comparison to the dnd multiverse they live in as "maddening and wrong"

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like to describe it as horror beyond belief or nightmare fuel would be an understatement

clever river
jagged apex
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honestly we have 0 words likely real or fictionally that could properly describe it

clever river
shell tendon
jagged apex
# clever river And don't let you glimpse her naked, or you'll probably die

honestly, that would be a best case senario, cuz at lest then you don't got to suffer the madness, as thankfully the natural method at least of the dnd multiverse at least historically seperates the memories of the being from the soul at least in regards to mortals, leaving only emotional connections of a vauge nature

shell tendon
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is there a section somewhere of all the potential Great Old One patrons? I think I saw a section in the 5.5E which I'm not sure if more people use 5E or 5.5E? Trying my best to understand everything so when I eventually gain the nerve to jump into a table or something I'm not the player that has done zero research

jagged apex
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dungeon dad did cover some interesting and more obscure lore on the pale night in a video on her

jagged apex
jagged apex
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hence why the forgotten realms wiki lables it as "5Re"

clever river
shell tendon
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"Re" meaning? I actually haven't heard of that

jagged apex
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no

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is more so revised

shell tendon
jagged apex
jagged apex
shell tendon
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Oh damn, this dragon looking one Tyranthraxus is from 2nd edition, I wonder if its been mentioned since, and lol apparently he's a WEAK version of his kind??

jagged apex
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you literally objectively would not be able to to have such a list

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especially since 5e is still ongoing

shell tendon
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Really, all I'm looking for are the ones that have been listed as canon and then I'll run with that, nothing more! Just didn't want to go the wrong route, general direction works best and I'll just research what I can about them

jagged apex
jagged apex
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it is not cut and dry

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you'd literally have to look at each one with in the lore for each published setting across who knows how many sources, and that is before factoring what continuity the source is from, be it an edition specific thing or from a specific form of media other than the dnd table top game

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honestly the only wrong route is thinking that "canon" is such a strict and rigidly tracked thing, it goes against the very nature of the hobby, but that is a bit outside the scope of lore

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hech is kind of why this channel specifies published materials

shell tendon
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Tbh, what I enjoy about the great old one is like, this one line stood out to me " The Great Old One might be indifferent to your existence, but the secrets you have learned nevertheless allow you to draw your magic from it. " So, I wonder what it means by ' you might bind yourself to an ineffable being from the Far Realm or an elder god known only in legend"

and honestly Pallghost was encouraging me to do my own thing too, it's just easier for me as a new player (again, at least for me not sure about anyone else) but having a solid starting point where it's just history that everyone may or may not know but can also look up? feels a bit more comfortable approaching someone to join their game (whenever I do)

jagged apex
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the closest thing to a universal lore is largely gunna be the setting agnostic stuff, like the new 2024 books are structured for 5e

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what happens at your table, even if using an existing setting, is effectively it's own continuity/timeline and is not bound by the lore unless you and the others at your table actively choose to adhere to the published lore

shell tendon
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That makes sense and honestly the community from what I've seen is really open to the idea of anyone sitting at the table, which is cool!

drowsy wraith
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Are there any places other than Chalt that dinosaurs can be found in the FR?

jagged apex
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yes

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but it is chult, and is just that that is where the majority of the population of dinosaurs reside, dinosaurs anywhere elese are gunna be found far less numbers than chult

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would be kind of a similar thing if you were trying to find big foot, but with big foot being real, like outside of chult while possible to encounter dinosaurs, they are gunna be drastically more rare and unlikely to be encountered but not impossible

deep nymph
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huh evolution is canon ig specifically referenced in that article

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that answers that question ig

stray blaze
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Yeah but humans popped up out of nowhere like they have no ties to evolution in dnd

eager bay
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Wait, what? How? Shouldn’t there be like… some sign of them evolving into existence if evolution exists in dnd?

cinder cloud
modest badger
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Evolution does and doesn't exist in D&D. Much like how most sciences do and do not, because fantasy and magic. It selectively exists, and is sometimes mentioned in older editions and then not mentioned ever again in other editions.

cinder cloud
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And in other settings humans might have different origins than the Realms

modest badger
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So it's better to try and look at these things individually. Maybe in one settings lore X used to be Y a long time ago but then 'evolved' to be different. This evolution might not be at all like our scientific understanding of evolution. Like Eladrin and Elves in 5e.

eager bay
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Ah

grim siren
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Humans in the realms are also from other worlds.

Humans are one of the alleged Creator Races. But some humans, like the Imaskari stole humans from other worlds, and enslaved them.

eager bay
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Creator races?

cinder cloud
jagged apex
steady verge
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I feel like somewhere I read that Waterdeep has these massive statues that defend the city if needed, is that true or am I just making that up in my head?

scarlet sigil
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It's true. They're called the Walking Statues and there are eight of them.

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There's even a statblock for them if they get animated in Waterdeep: Dragon Heist

cinder cloud
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First showed up in City of Splendors

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Then Spellplague added 6 more

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They just appeared out of the ethereal and started rampaging lol

true patio
tropic nova
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Hey, is there ever a description of how exactly tiefling horns can look? I always see them presented Hellboy style, for lack of a better term. Was curious if Darth Maul style was ever presented in lore.

feral lintel
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Its been varied as much as devils (and other fiends) are. Goat Horns are also common

tropic nova
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Afaik thats as varied as can be, thank you.

golden fiber
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I am interested in what they are going to show us on Thursday for the FR books... It seems as though we arent getting anything underdark related yet

thorn mountain
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I hope they will talk about the upcoming Netflix Forgotten Realms show 🙂

true patio
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The Planescape games had planetouched who you would just assume are normal baseline human, until you saw they had a tail or wore a hat covering donkey ears or some other minor oddity.

outer locust
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Could a lich become a ghost?

cinder cloud
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If they have unfinished business I suppose... That would be torturous though.

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Ghosts are usually mortal souls

calm crest
gaunt quail
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so, question about strixhaven that i wanna get clarification on real fast

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it's kinda like spelljammer or planescape, where basically anyone from any material plane can go and get an education there right?

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bc that's how i've been viewing it as but i just wanna double check before i either make a character with a homebrew species a friend made, or make my own campaign

cinder cloud
jagged apex
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they likely compared it to a ghost cuz of specific demi-liches like accerack, who basically have their disembodied consciousness traveling the multiverse acquiring knowledge where their skull that is the demi-lich's body is largely set up, in accerack's case thanks to the sort of trap filled temples they build to lure in and kill adventurers, to basically maintain their phylactery automatically

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the most up to date setting agnostic lore on them kind of rides the line between corporeal and incorporeal depending how you interpret it, to quote "A demilich is a skull harboring the remnants of a lich’s wicked essence. If the burden of immortality overwhelms a lich, its consciousness turns inward as its body rots away. But if its remains are disturbed, a demilich rises. Demiliches usually appear as skulls adorned with gems or arcane sigils." end quote

jagged apex
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to my knowledge strixhaven is largely ment to be a self contained setting

cinder cloud
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They're both undead, that's about it.

jagged apex
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and giving the setting agnostic lore for ghosts, outside of specifical special conditions like forgotten realm's "ghost king", ghosts having the lore of "Ghosts arise when living creatures die in a state of extreme emotion or having left an important task undone. These incorporeal spirits haunt locations that are meaningful to them, lingering until their business is complete or they’re put to rest.

Ghosts typically appear as semitransparent versions of the creatures they were in life, though some bear evidence of the wounds that killed them or have nightmarish distortions to their forms. Many have extreme reactions to actions, objects, or individuals that remind them of emotionally charged aspects of their lives. Particularly desperate or vengeful ghosts might possess the living to fulfill their ends." end quote

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so i'd say logically, a lich can not become a ghost by virtue of not being a living being, they are unliving

calm crest
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A demilich is the closest thing they could achieve to being a ghost, barring shape-shifting.

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In terms of failed liches, there’s the pseudo-lich (not to be confused with the non-undead pseudolich) which is the attempted lich’s soul possessing its own corpse, revenant style, that is powered by its will and unfinished business with no phylactery/spirit jar. Arch-shadows (and their mature form, the demi-shade) are the incorporeal spirits of failed liches, having a phylactery/spirit jar but no physical body.

cinder cloud
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To my earlier point, I was simply saying unless there is lore that says a lich can't become a ghost, they technically can. I could find no lore disputing such a possibility. A phylactery would certainly prevent such an occurance, but without one... However, my second point was that ghosts are typically mortal souls, for which a lich would not qualify.

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And is Acerak disembodied? His only forms as far as I know are as a lich or demilich, both of which have a physical form.

calm crest
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The demilich isn’t actually Acererak, it’s more like a spirit jar with a built-in self-defense mechanism. The real Acererak is a disembodied presence (barring the one module that made him a standard lich). Hence why Acererak is more advanced than the normal demilich.

cinder cloud
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Is there a source for the disembodied bit? I'm not finding anything

calm crest
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From Tomb of Horrors:

[H]is soul roamed strange planes unknown to even the wisest of sages.

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Only by tampering with his Tomb is Acererak drawn back to his remains and can fight in a spectral form (as a ghost) against intruders.

cinder cloud
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Hmm. It looks like they are simply reciting the original lore in that module. So it depends largely on which Acererak we are discussing, then. The one on the cover of the 2014 DMG and within the Tomb of Annihilation is very much a corporeal being, and not at all like a ghost.

calm crest
#

The 5e’14 lich Acererak in the Forgotten Realms is definitely different from the Greyhawk demilich Acererak. Given that 5e’24 reset the timeline of Oerth to the same era as 1e, AD&D 1e Greyhawk has presumably the most accurate lore for 5e’24 unless expressly contradicted.

jagged apex
#

yeah, some lore that isn't in 5e materials kind of explains how he is in tomb of annihilation despite being destroyed prior

#

unless i am mistaken, the one in that adventure is technically what was once a simulacrum of acererak who simply took the originals name after several other things they did to grant themselves a soul

calm crest
#

That’s my understanding of it as well. A little similar to Manshoon’s situation.

jagged apex
#

yeah, a potent spell normally used to cheat death meeting unusual situations that allows a "fake" to more or less become real

#

cuz do to being a simulacrum of the original, once he made a soul for himself, to like 99.99% of other beings, he effectively was the real Acererak especially since the original had been destroyed

#

like the number of people in universe that could deduce the truth can probably be counted on 1 hand i'd imagine if i had to guess

calm crest
#

Also worth noting that the original Acererak was a dual-class cleric/magic-user whereas the non-demilich one appears to solely be a wizard.

jagged apex
#

eh, class set up tends to change every now and then with some characters especially edition from edition

calm crest
#

Certainly, but since 5e’24 is set in the 1e era, and no 2024 Acererak has been presented, it’s at least the best assumption we presently have.

jagged apex
#

eh is hard to say, being of vecna one can assume much like his master in the 5e continuity would be a unique and powerful wizard, but we will not know unless stated out, else we would be safer to assume they are likely a being not ment to be able to be defeated in a traditional combat sense much like other beings without statblocks

#

plus given how deadly his infamous trap laid tombs are, odds are we may never know, only time will tell

#

like odds are if you are gunna fight him, you more likely than not have to survive the multiverses most notorious death trap

calm crest
#

-# The trick being, of course, to hire a team of dwarves to disassemble it and sell the precious stone like the first successful tournament bout.

cinder cloud
calm crest
#

…which part of that are you disagreeing about?

cinder cloud
# calm crest The 5e’14 lich Acererak in the Forgotten Realms is definitely different from the...

With that statement in particular? I take issue with the idea that the timeline "reset" means anything more than the fact that they are simply presenting the setting from a previous time period. (Or from a practical standpoint, simply using the original setting's era as a callback for the 50th anniversary.)

In addition, we know from previous editions how to line up the timelines from both settings. From third edition and the original "Die, Vecna, Die" adventure (as well as the Living Greyhawk and Living Forgotten Realms campaigns) we know that the year 1371 DR corresponds to the year 591 CY, which means that the Acererak presented in Tomb of Annihilation is a version of that character that is "alive" and well more than a century later. The 5e24 Greyhawk setting is set in the year 576 CY, predating the events of Tomb of Annihilation even further. Hence, the Acererak in ToA is the oldest and most recent version of the character.

But most importantly, nothing you have said has disputed my original rebuttal, which was that ghosts are in fact nothing like demiliches or liches, and I stand by that point.

#

I do agree that the two versions of the character are "different" insofar as they are presented as versions of themselves from different time periods, or in the case of Tales from the Yawning Portal, completely detached from the lore entirely.

#

And if they are the exact same character, how is it that they "evolved" to demilich, but then appear as an archlich/lich over a century later in a completely different setting?

calm crest
#

I concur that demiliches are not literally ghosts. My comparison was that those are the closest thing to ghosts that (true) liches have been known to become in the sense that they are diminished and at least sometimes incorporeal echos of their original identities.

#

As for the reset, all content published for 2024 is either set in 576 CY on Oerth or approximately a decade after the events of the D&D Cartoon in relation to the Realm and Earth. Content for Greyhawk set in the same time period as the current edition seems like a valid source until proven otherwise—obviously there are some key dissimilarities already, such as Otto.

#

For other settings, though, the most recent source is most relevant. Oerth is just in a bit of limbo at the moment.

calm crest
#

The module Prisoner of the Castle Perilous published in Dungeon 153 spells out the origin of the second Acererak.

cinder cloud
cinder cloud
calm crest
#

Arch-Shadows are significantly closer to ghostly liches, but they are specifically failed liches.

calm crest
jagged apex
#

i know of it from a video about info that you would not find in 5e materials regarding the tomb of annihilation adventure, i am unsure of the sources if they are written anywhere

#

but it does explain how he is able to appear in that adventure despite having been last seen in an adventure where he is destroyed, if it is not true, then it has to try to explain that potential plot whole, be it years before the 2024 books even gave us a version of greyhawk that is not specific to an adventure, let alone one that might be earlier in the timeline

#

i tend to believe it is true as unless we are given an official source that answers it overwise it makes the most sense

#

cuz the acererak in ToA is from 2014 so you can't fairly act like any rewind in the timeline being an important factor especially when even before that the tomb of horrors also was adapted to 5e, giving a version of it in that same continuity

calm crest
#

Not only was the original destroyed, he became a vestige and thus wholly unable to return to (un)life.

cinder cloud
#

Right, I'm asking how one connects the dots between a third party adventure and ToA

jagged apex
#

is not 3rd party

calm crest
#

Dungeon isn’t third party.

#

Just like Dragon, it’s official content.

cinder cloud
#

Ok, still doesn't change the point

#

There is nothing that says the Acererak in ToA is a simulacrum

feral lintel
#

also, i feel we're getting into module spoilers here

jagged apex
#

just like any other lore spread across multiple sources, you have to dig into it

cinder cloud
#

I'm not arguing it isn't possible, I'm saying it sounds like speculation

jagged apex
#

and again, specificially said that bit of context is explicitly not included in ToA

#

cuz honestly is not entirely necessary to run the adventure as presented, such as the identity of the atropal in it

#

hense why i said "if i am not mistaken" cuz i believe it to be true and makes the most sense, but since i am not aware of it being written down anywhere in an official source i say it in away that leads room for if i am incorrect for it to be corrected by someone with more info

#

besides, one can argue once he made a soul for himself, the new acererak technically stopped being a simulacrum, but that is just me speculating why it might not have been considered worth mentioning in the adventure

cinder cloud
jagged apex
#

and if we were to assume that was the true acererak, how does that explain everything else? it wouldn't least far as i can tell

cinder cloud
#

Right, we have no information either way. All we know is that the one in Chult was the most recent appearance of the character.

jagged apex
#

so unless you can find an offical source saying that the acererak in that adventure is 100% the real deal, i am inclined to presume the more reasonable explination to be true

cinder cloud
#

I mean, I could invert that exact statement for my position. I would only be speculating.

calm crest
#

As I have yet to find further sources than that Dungeon module, it does seem to be speculation. Certainly more plausible than the original becoming un-vestiged, un-destroyed, and un-demiliched, but simply speculation.

cinder cloud
#

Given that a lich can recreate a body from its phylactery it's entirely plausible that, given the need for one, he created it

#

But again, I would be speculating

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

calm crest
#

All we know is that an Acererak that is currently a lich and formerly a Simulacrum exists after using a soul-sucking device. There’s also a lich-Acererak in Chult.

#

The demilich-Acererak is referenced in the MM’14, seemingly in direct contradiction to the lich portrayal on the cover of the 2014 DMG and in the aforementioned module.

#

Barring there being multiple Acereraks to justify both appearing.

jagged apex
#

apparently the simulacrum thing comes the adventure "Prisoner of the Castle Perilous,"

calm crest
#

Yeah, I cited it a while back.

#

It doesn’t go into too much detail other than what’s been previously discussed.

#

It basically comes down to “there’s a not-quite-Acererak in the Negative Energy Plane, stop it!”

jagged apex
#

from the greyhawk wiki "According to the adventure "Prisoner of the Castle Perilous," Acererak created a simulacrum in the Negative Energy Plane to torment Saint Pentivel, an old foe from his mortal life. This simulacrum eventually transforms itself into a complete being through the aid of an artifact known as the Soul Machine." unlike the forgotten realms wiki it sadly does not seem to cite it's sources nearly as well least to the point i can't find where it is saying the source is from

#

but i'd presume "become a complete being" would make him no longer a simulacrum

calm crest
#

Yes, that version is depicted as a whole being with a true soul rather than a glorified illusion in the module.

jagged apex
#

and far as i can tell that is from the 3e area of his lore, so i doubt it was discarded like much 4e lore was

calm crest
#

It is 3e. The issue came out in 2008.

jagged apex
#

he bascially became Acererak jr XD

cinder cloud
#

I'm curious to know if simulacrum worked the same way in 3e

jagged apex
#

likely some wiggle room between editions and the powerful artifact used

cinder cloud
#

Nah, SRD is showing it's still illusory

jagged apex
#

it literally was part of experiments with souls, so likely enough wiggle room that in time he could pull it off, depends if it had any clause where it caused it to die should the caster die

calm crest
#

I see you already checked, never mind.

jagged apex
#

since it says partially real, i imagine that was enough for the double to complete itself with the soul machine, does not seems it need to rely on the original's safety to exist, so since it was off in another plane in a personal strong hold, likely would have given it enough time to complete itself

#

as far as i can tell that would have been the only real hurdle in it's efforts to complete itself and basically become the new acererak

calm crest
#

For what it’s worth, the Binder class and the Acererak vestige were published in 2006’s Tome of Magic, meaning the original character was firmly established as perma-dead prior to the module’s publication in 2008.

#

I was mostly just checking out of curiosity for the order of vestige-Acererak and Simulacrum/lich-Acererak.

narrow granite
#

In a campagin i am running i have a little system that, under certain conditions, incerace the level of the spell that you are casting. (Not meant for player use don't worry about balance)
The BBEG is basically planning to cast spells up to level 14 using this.
Can anyone explain me any dnd lore about higher levels of spells that i should be probably knowing?
(If you need more details i can write it down.)

forest rock
narrow granite
#

Just a typo.

cinder cloud
#

If you want to know how the rules work, that's a question for #dnd-rules

#

Outside of that, what magic exists beyond normal spellcasting depends largely on the setting

#

So you'd need to start there

calm crest
#

The lore of level 10+ spells varies by setting. Several of them handle it differently.

#

In the Forgotten Realms, however, a level 12 spell was capable of possessing a god wholly.

#

Famously, that’s what got them banned for everyone except special elven magic in Realmspace.

#

Birthright has special domain magic that relies on a Regent’s inherited divine connection to the land to produce effects on a much larger scale than mere levelled spells.

#

Dark Sun has level 10+ spells that require psionic techniques combined with magic to memorize, as they’d be too difficult to cast otherwise. As the setting lacks gods, however, it’s unsurprising that spells of such power haven’t been divinely prohibited.

dire olive
#

There are level 10+ spells?!?!

#

I am very behind on dnd lore

calm crest
#

In Realmspace, they’ve been banned since the Fall of Netheril. Not all settings feature Mystra and the Weave, so their prohibition shouldn’t be assumed everywhere.

#

The divine equivalent of those spells in the Netheril era were Quest spells, used by clerics who were believed to be harnessing the breath of the gods.

gloomy charm
calm crest
#

No, they are accessible by mortals in several contexts.

#

To my knowledge, gods have no special permission to use such spells in Realmspace.

dire olive
#

Can players use these?

gloomy charm
#

well mystra banned the use of them didn't she.

calm crest
#

Correct, by reworking the Realmspace Weave to make them impossible.

calm crest
# dire olive Can players use these?

More of a #dnd-elder-editions mechanics question if you want to know the specifics of how PCs would do it in various editions. In general, though, there are records of mortal casters using such magic in several settings, as described above.

gloomy charm
#

let me guess, bane, myrkul, bhaal. or are they also banned from 10-12 lvl spells?

calm crest
#

Out of those three, I believe only Myrkul was a spellcaster prior to godhood, and none of them have ever specifically cast a level 10+ spell.

gloomy charm
#

yes, necromancer.

calm crest
#

The Fall of Netheril (Karsus’ Folly) occurred while Jergal was still god of their portfolios.

gloomy charm
#

the god of the dead tired of being a god, a folly indeed.

#

but those are different events i believe

calm crest
#

They are different events. I was clarifying that Myrkul never practiced magic prior to the prohibition of level 10+ spells.

#

To be fair, Jergal had been a god so long that his original mantis-humanoid species has been completely forgotten.

gloomy charm
#

karsus folly was when magic shut off for a moment was it not?

#

flying city's falling...

calm crest
#

Karsus’ Folly was the sole successful casting of a 12th level spell on Toril. Karsus’ Avatar caused him to possess Mystryl, embodiment of the Weave, killing her, turning him into a vestige, and causing all magic to fail. This resulted in the end of his civilization (the Fall of Netheril) and caused the second incarnation of Mystryl, now known as Mystra, to create a new Weave that prevents the use of level 10+ spells.

gloomy charm
#

read it up quickly too, didn't mystra used to be human? or i heard something like that.

calm crest
#

The second Mystra was a convenient human vessel, yes. I believe the third one was human as well.

dire olive
#

What’s the highest level these spells can be?

calm crest
#

It’s not defined, but given that only one level 12 spell was ever invented, required components from ancient dragons and the tarrasque, and was used to become a god, it’s unclear if they’d need to be more powerful than that.

calm crest
dire olive
#

Okay, so, who normally casts these spells?

#

And how commonly are they cast?

calm crest
#

In the time of Netheril on Toril specifically, these spells would be learned by extremely powerful arcanist Archmages that were capable of plucking a tremendous number of arcs from the Weave to shape the spells. The level 10 spell, Proctiv’s Move Mountain, was used to create each Netherese city, and thus at least one such mage lived there.

#

On Athas, the spells of level 10+ could only be cast by divine casters who were beginning to become one with the elemental planes, Preservers in the process of becoming Avangions, or Defilers (such as the Sorcerer-Kings) becoming Dragons.

#

In both of these examples, the caster in question must be a human of exceptional power.

#

On Cerilia, the Regent needn’t be a supremely powerful mage or priest, but they must have a strong connection to the magic of the land, typically by creating a leyline to a place of power, and rely on their god-infused bloodline to do the rest. This magic was exceptionally expensive and rather time-consuming.

#

On Cerilia, these Realm spells were somewhat commonplace, perhaps as much or more so as the Netherese Archmages, whereas the Athasian magic of the Sorcerer-Kings was limited to only a few known individuals was was cast infrequently.

dire olive
#

I see, okay. Thank you

calm crest
#

Amendment to my prior statement regarding level 10+ spells and Mystra—she didn’t make the spells impossible to cast, strictly speaking, but very close to impossible. The spell always fails on the first attempt, the spell causes intense mental strain to even read, and she has the ability to flat out veto any level 10+ spell cast and Feeblemind/Befuddle the caster if she feels the need to. What is impossible is any spell that has an effect directly on her or the Weave.

narrow granite
#

thanks you for the lore

jagged apex
#

i imagine if any spell had a 100% decline rate was "karsus' avatar", would not blame her given it's infamy

gloomy charm
#

Steal the power of a god, yea that spell got banned.

fringe terrace
#

Do Duergar in their civilizations in the Underdark ever tend to have any specific monstrosities or beasts that they tend to domesticate or train/utilize?

feral lintel
#

yes, they have those spider things, forgot what its called

#

Striders?

stable junco
#

Yeah

fringe terrace
#

Steeders?

stable junco
#

It's one of the two, but yeah, big spiders

#

And they have slaves from different races as well

feral lintel
#

Yes, Steeders

feral lintel
fringe terrace
#

Yeah was moreso wondering on the domesticated animals/monsters front

stable junco
fringe terrace
#

I knew about the slaves already

#

The slavery has been taken into account already in the plans I am laying out.

stable junco
#

They use large lizards

#

and enjoy company of other small animals like bats and spitting crawlers.

#

though that is 3e stuff I'm mentioning

#

the sptting crawlers I mean

#

But anything in the Underdark that you think makes sense could be used.

fringe terrace
#

I've been planning a big Duergar "mega"dungeon stronghold that the players have to infiltrate and deal with because of the threat the Duergar pose, the mad and evil among them having taken power and hold of the stronghold and its operations and trying to mount attacks on both the surface and possibly other nearby underdark civilizations.

#

Probably going to make a whole homebrewed campaign around it, so I'm wondering about good sources for underdark and Duergar lore i can use to fuel this adventure.

jagged apex
#

depends on the setting you are using, as some of their behavior norms and such for their societies is often setting specific

#

far as i know the majority of the setting agnostic lore on them is in the 2024 books

burnt plinth
#

Does lore acknowledge classes?

#

Like, do civilians go “hey that’s a hexblade warlock”

#

Instead of just going “hey that’s a magic user”

dark comet
#

It's kinda shaky and inconsistent. So for example:

  • Drizzt is referred to as a "ranger". In most of his stat blocks, yes, he has some levels in ranger, but usually has levels in fighter, too. Example: http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/drizzt-35.htm
  • Salvatore wrote a character named Gareth Dragonsbane who is also known as the "paladin-king". He is actually a paladin. https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Gareth_Dragonsbane
  • Artemis Entreri is an "assassin", but nobody refers to him as a "rogue" - despite that's usually the main class he has in his stat blocks.
  • Cattie-brie is usually statted as a "fighter" but most people refer to her as an "archer".
jagged apex
#

classes are non diegetic

#

while the term may show up, it does not nessissarily mean the class as we know in the game's mechanics

obsidian gate
#

I would argue some classes are more like actual in world descriptors than others.

Nobody is called a "fighter" as a reference to their class. They are knights, soldiers, sellswords, veterans etc

#

but a warlock is probably also known as a warlock in world

cinder cloud
#

Warlocks crypt is (in?) famously not home to a warlock, though. So the usage of the term is not always diegetic

#

It also likely depends on the setting. Classes may be diegetic in some and not others

jagged apex
#

to my knowledge when they are diegetic is the exception rather than the norm, more often than not they are not diegetic

jagged apex
#

and part of his history even has him becoming a "sorcerer-king" despite not being a sorcerer

#

in fact, according to what is cited from "volo's guide to the sword coast" he very much does not like being called a warlock, to quote what they have cited from that on the wiki, "A few mistaken minstrels incorrectly called Larloch "the Warlock" or "the Warlock King", after the Warlock's Crypt, but Larloch apparently took umbrage at being called a warlock. Composers of ballads naming him as such were supposedly kidnapped by creatures in the night and carried away to be tortured and turned into some undead thing by Larloch. Singing the ballad titled "The Warlock King" anywhere in three days' ride of the Troll Hills was not advised, lest Larloch overhear and be displeased" end quote

jagged apex
obsidian gate
#

okay thats like one misnamed location

spare shuttle
#

I think its also worth noting that "classes" and "subclasses" have changed across additions making it harder to track with the lore as well

jagged apex
#

yeah but enough so that many a foolish bard has apparently called him a warlock and he was at one point called the warlock king, so still shows the point

#

supposedly his title as the "shadow king" was introduced as a substitute for the title that would have displeased him

#

plus looking at notable individuals, while he is described as a warlock, in universe Wyll Ravenguard is known more so as names that don't even reference him being a warlock "Blade of Frontiers" or "Pride of the Coast", and unless i am mistaken, he tends to keep his warlock status and definitely his pact on the down low

spare shuttle
#

Oh for sure it's on the DL

jagged apex
#

and most often of all, there are rangers, it often more so reffers to the term as an occupation rather than meaning they have any investment in the class/mechanics of ranger

#

plus i recall several times in the past others also pointed out to me and or others that the classes were not diegetic terms

spare shuttle
#

Yea, i would agree they are not diegetic

#

Lots of what we would call clerics are called priests

cinder cloud
#

Yep. Priests, acolytes, clerics, vicar, etc.

#

Lots of words to describe various titles

scarlet blade
#

When building a world what general dnd lore is there for “gods” & can I mix that with home-brew gods?

pallid flower
stable junco
jagged apex
#

some gods in dnd are even taken and adapted from mythologies in our own world hence what was labeled "fantasy-historical pantheons"

#

though the 2014 dmg's first chapter did have a section that provided a sample pantheon and covered at least a bit of the various different ways one can approach gods in a setting, including in making your own world

#

plus the published lore does not really effect your homebrew or even your own table unless you wish it to, so asking about that sort of thing is not really a lore question

stable junco
jagged apex
#

yeah, he is what is known historically as a multispherical power, ie he is worshiped in more than 1 setting

#

gods in dnd basically exist beyond linear time

#

and to a degree presumably space, probably why death for a god, unless killed by a god of equal or greater power and their portfolio's absorbed, is more like a comma than death in the traditional sense

jagged apex
cinder cloud
scarlet blade
#

Thank you people 🙌🏽

tropic nova
#

What's an elder brains lifespan?

#

Functionally immortal?

cinder cloud
#

Yes.

An elder brain also sees itself as a savior of the mind flayer race and a living memorial that preserves the memories of the mind flayers' prey. By its twisted logic, humanoids whose brains are devoured by the colony are rendered immortal, their memories preserved forever in the elder brain's labyrinthine mind. When a mind flayer grows old, becomes infirm, or is grievously injured, the elder brain absorbs it-another form of immortality, as the mind flayer's mind dwells within the hive mind forever after.
Volo's Guide to Monsters

tropic nova
#

Dex also gives you better hit rates

feral lintel
#

that not really something for this channel either

plain wolf
feral lintel
ionic rivet
narrow token
#

did he spend a century in a hive mind or something

cinder cloud
#

All narrated lore is ultimately fallible, hence why you are able to change the lore to whatever you wish.

#

As for Volo, he is generally regarded as knowledgable and widely traveled, as evidenced by the large volumes of books he has sold

feral lintel
#

Hes also known for exaggerating

autumn temple
#

Volo does have competent editors - E

final ice
#

i need as much info on ashardalon as possible

cinder cloud
#

And then go buy and read all the sources

naive root
#

Is there a guild or association of famous detectives ? Maybe even individual ones

feral lintel
#

what setting

naive root
#

Phandelver

feral lintel
#

Forgotten Realms? I would probably say the Harpers fall under that

#

The Harpers, or Those Who Harp, were a semi-secret organization dedicated to preserving historical lore, maintaining the balance between nature and civilization,[9][24][25] and defending the innocent from the forces of evil across the Realms.

naive root
#

Thought more of a Sherlock Holmes variant

feral lintel
#

there isnt much specifically thats like that in FR

#

at least, not to my knowledge

cinder cloud
#

Any city watch or big policing agency would have an investigator of some kind. Or religions might have inquisitors.

feral lintel
#

Reminds me, did the Investigator background give any examples...

cinder cloud
#

They're kinda jerks though

#

They would likely have some sort of investigative arm, I'd imagine

feral lintel
#

You might have been part of the City Watch of Waterdeep, the baton-wielding police force of the City of Splendors, protecting the common folk from thieves and rowdy nobility alike. Or you might have been one of the valiant defenders of Silverymoon, a member of the Silverwatch or even one of the magic-wielding Spellguard.

Perhaps you hail from Neverwinter and have served as one of its Wintershield watchmen, the newly founded branch of guards who vow to keep safe the City of Skilled Hands.

#

finally, SCAG has some useful information

cinder cloud
#

Of course I am also limiting myself to local organizations, since it is more likely they would be there due to distance alone

fathom narwhal
#

Are there any Demon lords or other powerful entities of the abyss that are explicitly connected to disease and/or decomposition besides zuggtmoy? I'm looking for someone with direct domain over these things, not like how Orcus could technically be connected to them due to the effects of undeath (unless he is explicitly a lord of disease and I've missed something).

cinder cloud
#

Sort of

#

Rather than poison, his tongue contained raw chaos matter which he could implant into the flesh of other beings. The entropic power slowly consumed the unfortunate target's body and soul, until they were utterly destroyed with only magic like dispel chaos delaying the process and the strongest of restorative magic bringing back the lost soul without the degradation continuing. He also possessed telekinetic powers and the ability to create symbols of insanity.[1]

feral lintel
#

does Zuggy not have some relation to disease as well, or am i mistaking her domain

cinder cloud
#

Many of Juiblex's spell-like abilities were related to blighting and befouling areas or desecrating and despoiling specific targets. Often times his first move was to hide, possibly by turning invisible, before engulfing multiple foes and unleashing a contagion on the first.

fathom narwhal
cinder cloud
#

I mean the above shows that he is more than capable of causing a contagion to break out

#

But yeah if those don't suit your fancy, just make one up

feral lintel
#

-# theres a crap ton of demonlords being spawned anyway

fathom narwhal
cinder cloud
#

If you're the DM there are as many or as few "pre-established" characters as you see fit. Don't like one? Never existed.

#

Anthraxus the Decayed (pronounced: /ænˈθrɑːksʌs/ æn-THRAK-sus[5] about this audio file listen) was an altraloth and the ruler of the yugoloths, known as the Oinoloth, and the master of the Wasting Tower, Khin-Oin, making him the effective ruler of the Blood Rift or the Battle Plain Oinos.

fathom narwhal
cinder cloud
#

If there's nothing to stay in line with you're good then

fathom narwhal
autumn temple
cinder cloud
#

Yeah I didn't mention them because they are just a mainfestation of the god

fluid atlas
#

Did Calimshan at one point control Amn and Tethyr? That’s what some of the sources I’ve read seem to be implying, but it’s a little vague. Also tangentially related, what exactly is Muranndin and is it still a thing as of the latest lore?

jagged apex
jagged apex
#

Bayemon of the Unhealing Wound is a demon lord associated with the afflicted, so they might be who you are looking for

#

though there is also the likes of Ereshkigal who is so obscure literally all we know about them as a demon lord is their name, so could literally be associated with anything for all we know

jagged apex
#

is years old at this point, but the well known lore youtuber AJ Pickett went into detail beyond what seems to be on the forgotten realms wiki on anthraxus if you happen to be curious on him and his abilities beside what little the wiki describes

autumn temple
#

Muranndin appears to be a kingdom carved out of the south of Amn by a couple of ogre magi and assorted allied humanoids. Also pops up referred to as the Sothillisian or Sythillisian empire. Founded 1370 DR but was still a going concern in 4e books (1479 DR). Current status unknown, I don't know of any 5e material that's covered the area.

#

this is not an exhaustive search result.

jagged apex
#

if i recall correctly Calimshan is one of the parts of toril getting a dedicated forgotten realms sourcebook in the future

#

so there is a chance if it all it may get touched apon in that

fluid atlas
autumn temple
#

Hypothesis: Would not be unreasonable for Muranndin to be still active, as Amn has been greatly reduced in power due to the events round the Spellplague.

fluid atlas
autumn temple
fringe terrace
#

Are there any Halfling deities that would be appropriate for a bookish knowledge domain cleric to worship?

grim siren
# autumn temple Hypothesis: Would not be unreasonable for Muranndin to be still active, as Amn h...

Very possible. Muranndin as a nation was active in the 4e Timeline. Which is 1479 DR. Rumors are circulating that the new Adventures in Faerun will be set in 1501 DR. So about a 22 year timeskip from 4e and a 5 year timeskip from the latest 5e Material.

According to Ed Greenwood Muranndin would be very weak by the 1490s. Reduced to nothing but Murann, and scattered encampments across the Wealdath and barely able to hold the title of the "Monster Kingdom"

true plinth
#

got the new DMG yesterday, the D&D 80's cartoon is cannon!

cinder cloud
# fluid atlas Did Calimshan at one point control Amn and Tethyr? That’s what some of the sourc...

Tethyr as something resembling a nation was ruled over at two separate times. (The lands themselves were ruled over many factions before the lands of Tethyr were solely united under a single government.) Tethyrian independence from Calimshan was declared around -288 DR. The first occupation of Tethyrian lands was around -230 DR, but that was short lived and only lasted a few decades, when Tethyrian clans beat back their forces at Myratma and crowned their first king soon after in -212 DR. The Shoon Empire (27-450 DR) came a few centuries later, and ruled from Shoonach in southern Tethyr across much of what is now Amn, Tethyr, Calimshan and further west. Their grasp over the far reaches of their empire was tenuous but they were ruthless in their rule. From then on Tethyr was largely ruled over by various Tethyrian dynasties.

cinder cloud
feral lintel
#

-# this channel also isnt really for speculation

cinder cloud
cinder cloud
cinder cloud
feral lintel
#

Are there any infernal beings associated with flowers?

true plinth
cinder cloud
feral lintel
#

All i got is maaaybe the Succubi and Grazzt lmao

#

wait those are demons

cinder cloud
#

Maybe Zuguttmoy has some flowerish looking molds

#

But fiends are kinda opposed to life in general

feral lintel
#

i also thought Zuggy, but was not what I was looking for lmao

cinder cloud
#

Yeah I'm gonna say no

autumn temple
tidal acorn
feral lintel
#

I was thinking about Fierna, but havent checked her out her, will do that now GuraSalute

jagged apex
solemn fulcrum
#

Is there anything more to Helm, other than him being about loyalty and protecting the weak?

feral lintel
slow river
#

Is anything known about Tabaxi naming conventions?

forest rock
jagged apex
#

@slow river depends what you mean by tabaxi as there are two kinds in the realms, but assuming you mean the cat people the part that enoki is referring to reads "Each tabaxi has a single name, determined by clan and based on a complex formula that involves astrology, prophecy, clan history, and other esoteric factors. Tabaxi names can apply to both males and females, and most use nicknames derived from or inspired by their full names.
Clan names are usually based on a geographical feature located in or near the clan’s territory." end quote

#

i find the name generator, on it's own site, that is tied to dnd beyond's character creation system, is useful in this regard as it gives plenty of additional examples in addition to those from volos

#

far as i know though, this "complex formula" is not broken down in detail beyond that in any published lore, though i could be wrong about that

autumn temple
# slow river Is anything known about Tabaxi naming conventions?

The named Tabaxi (catfolk) in ToA have an odd naming convention of being named (or at least referring to themselves) after objects or natural phenomena. There is no explanation for this though, and lore suggests Chultan Tabaxi (catfolk) may be disconnected from their traditions from Maztica.

mellow ermine
#

Two Tabaxi players I know used descriptive nicknames for their characters back in the day. Seemed apt for the species

dire olive
#

What’s the strongest demon lord?

#

Any equivalent/similar to Asmodeus in power and/or rank?

#

I saw that demogorgan was called the prince of demons but I have no clue if that’s an actual title or just a name

jagged apex
#

you literally have to beat the previous holder and regularly fight off others who want it, it is official

#

the fact he still holds it after all this time makes it clear that out of those interested in ruling demon kind, he is the strongest

dire olive
#

So… demogorgan?

jagged apex
#

as for asmodeus, only demon remotely close is status is lolth because both are gods in the forgotten realms setting

jagged apex
#

demogorgon is his name, demogorgan is not anything to my knowledge

dire olive
#

50/50 between A and O and I was wrong

jagged apex
#

you could easily check it in official materials and even the wiki, so not sure how you learned he is the prince of demons and not have seen his name, unless someone simply told it to you

dire olive
#

I’ve seen his name, I just didn’t remember the last vowel

#

It was just a typo, dude

prisma siren
#

Orcus is up there with Demogorgon

#

But that's a long story and some of its canonicity is questionable

jagged apex
#

yes but he and grazzt are in a 3 way time but demogorgon is still the one and only prince of demons, so he is arguably stronger

#

especially since to my knowledge he can actively kill other demons to bolster his strength at least in his lore

#

also you ain't really gunna find an equivalent to asmodeus in terms of role among demon kind cuz demon kind is not organized and is chaotic, closest thing you had was previous princes of demons such as miska the wolf spider and before him, obox-ob, both now long either far too weak or sealed away

#

in terms of power and rank asmodeus is arguably above the demon lords, historically when he was stated out it was beyond what you see in modern materials

dire olive
#

Yeah I should have expected there to be no definitive leader. Chaos reigns supreme

#

Ty

jagged apex
#

so there is no 1 being that really can be accurately be called his demonic counter part in every way, is spread across various beings

dire olive
#

So is demogorgon a self proclaimed prince?

jagged apex
jagged apex
#

he fought and slaughter for it

dire olive
#

Oki sweet

#

Ty

jagged apex
#

and the reason obox-ob has yet to get the vengence he vowed in both versions, he is still far too weak and is trying to amass enough power to take it back

#

and last i checked obox-ob originally was the strongest and most powerful of the demons known as the Obyriths

#

until the one known only as the queen of chaos, betrayed him, installing miska the wolf spider as a sort of figure head, ruling demon kind via miska, least until he was sealed away

#

most demon's titles are self proclaimed, but to my knowledge no demon would foolish or arrogant enough to proclaim themself "prince of demons" though some come close but know not to try to claim such an important title without claiming it from the previous one by defeating them and claiming it

#

that specific title is only ever used by the one who actively owns it by right and any that claimed to be one and did not earn it, would likely be torn limb from limb by the true prince himself

autumn temple
#

That particular rule probably follows for most of the other "Prince of X" categories... any demon with enough strength can knock a few thousand skulls and claim to be a Demon Lord or Demon Prince, but claiming to be the Demon Prince of Undead is going to get Orcus' attention and you better be able to back that up.

jagged apex
#

yeah being a prince of or demon lord of something is separate from being the "prince of demons"

#

plus to my knowledge most of the time, these self proclaim titles are associated with the unique form and powerset they got from becoming a demon lord that seperates them from their peers

thorny hound
#

Do Feywild "citizens" worship any gods or do they just worship Archfey like Titania Oberon or The Queen

jagged apex
#

nothing stops them from doing so if they wish, but fey are alien compared to our own minds, and is not really a citizen thing, they just dwell and are otherwise native to the feywild

#

there are fey gods, so there is that, Titania and her court are referred to as a pantheon and are treated as gods, but could simply be a case of gods that are also archfey

thorny hound
#

My mind was out of the words for that type of thing so I just used citizens

potent acorn
#

In regards to the weave, if a person could not attune to the weave, would they still be able to use magic items to their full capabilities?

dire olive
#

How are and strong is adamantine? My first time as a player my DM really hyped it up, saying nearly no fire can melt it, and it takes the strongest magic to mold it. Is any of this true?

#

I started having my doubts when I saw adamantine armour is just uncommon and the forge in BG3, but ik that's different from normal dnd

mellow ermine
# dire olive How are and strong is adamantine? My first time as a player my DM really hyped i...

It's uncommon because it's not a singular unique thing that's actively very hard to produce, it's just that the only ones who know how to make it at a consistently quality standard are the dwarves (in most, if not all, interpretations). It's like KFC's secret spices in that regard. The rarity of the adamantine materials are... Kinda different in every other version they're in, which doesn't help xD

Adamantine is considered as strong, if not stronger, than diamonds. It's always a crit on objects if used as a weapon, and the armour just outright negates crits and even reduces damage even if you're hurt. This is before it is enchanted, so base adamantine armour is beyond stuff that is non-magical. Thematically, adamantine seems to be 'the strongest' among non-magical materials, but a standard steel sword enchanted by a lvl 20 Wizard could be leagues beyond that so, generally, adamantine seems to be as far as you can get without magical influence

dire olive
#

Hmm, alright, thanks

#

And what about Mithral? How rare is it?

mellow ermine
#

Not as rare as adamantine, I think, but by no means common

#

Adamantine has to be forged as an alloy while mithral's a natural resource so if you find a vein in the earth, you can just outright produce more

dire olive
#

Oki

#

ty

mellow ermine
#

No prob ^^ hope it was helpful

mellow ermine
#

The item itself is the thing doing the magic, you're just the person flicking the light switch

jagged apex
#

to my knowledge attunement is typically more tied to the living than to the weave, magical items, attunement or not, yeah the magic is imbued into the item

jagged apex
jagged apex
#

though the sources vary, at minimum in published material it needs to be at least "2280ºC" to even melt the stuff

dire olive
#

Oh wow

jagged apex
#

it is basically the dnd super metal, least not counting metals and materials from the outer planes

#

especially in the case of destroying items, though that is mostly mechanical for the weapons it still matches the lore to a degree cuz it's power and sharpness for weapons, depending on the weapon if it was sharp or not obviously, cuz how hyper dense the stuff is

#

so like with a warhammer for example made of the stuff, you could pretty easily break through walls and doors unless they are made of the same material or otherwise buffed to similar levels via things like magic, of which i am not even entirely sure is a thing

#

is also pretty expensive to where the door of the legendary tomb of horrors has a pretty funny history regarding it to where in lore they eventually had stopped making the door out of adamantium cuz it was too explensive XD

digital tulip
#

how could anything be particularly rare in a world where sufficiently powerful wizards can conjure anything into existance

feral lintel
#

because those wizards are rare and also limited still?

#

do you have a lore question though?

mellow ermine
# digital tulip how could anything be particularly rare in a world where sufficiently powerful w...

Because adventurers have a habit of dying young and not being resurrected, and Wizards have a habit of destroying themselves before they reach the godly levels where they can warp reality, and of that small number, the very few number of them are busier with more important things than crashing a world's economy by conjuring 500,000 tons of various rare materials, so statistically, a Wizard who can do what you're suggesting does not occur in every generation of Wizards, or even every two, three, or five generations.

#

Potentially the most famous and still-living Wizard in the setting is Elminster Aumar, who is nearly 1300 years old. And in that time, there hasn't really lived a Wizard who can outright compete with him on a day-to-day basis.

jagged apex
#

plus the rarity of magical items and even just wizards, let alone powerful ones, can vary from world to world

#

like magical items are more difficult to create presently on toril, least to my knowledge, compared to the hight of the netherise empire

feral lintel
#

thats kinda like asking why billionaires just dont crash the economy

#

-# wait

jagged apex
#

like even in the realms having "the gift" ie the ability to tap into magic is far rarer in universe than you might think just from creating characters or playing as a game

#

like 1% of the population have any magical talent if i am not mistaken

feral lintel
#

-# .. oh mygod

jagged apex
#

toril just happens to be larger and or more population dense than earth, so that is why it might seem like there is so many magic users, but is far from the amount it use to have before karsus' folly

#

like player characters are ment to be part of that minority of remarkable people, not the norm or standard of everyone in the setting

jagged apex
mellow ermine
#

And of that 1%, you've got the whole spectrum of shmucks who blow themselves up, weak scrubs, average joes, and over-achievers

#

And /THEN/ we have the Wizards who manage to become demigods

#

A lá Elminster

jagged apex
#

be it via sheer skill, talent and knowledge, or being picked as a chosen one by the goddess of magic herself, of which elminster is both, and while mystra has more chosen than other gods, she kind of has to and a chosen is not something a god will just grant you the status and power of willy nilly

#

cuz a chosen is basically given a portion of the gods power, the more chosen you have the weaker the deity becomes themselves, is why most gods only have a single chosen or a small number these days if any

mellow ermine
#

Tbf, if you have a surplus of power, you can have a ton of Chosen and it makes little difference

#

Mystra has like over 20, I think

#

Including goddamn Volo

jagged apex
#

but yeah, magic was at it's most common to my knowledge on toril in the forgotten realms setting, especially among humans, at the height of the netherese empire, which has not been a thing since the event known as "karsus' folly" which was over a thousand years ago at this point https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Karsus's_Folly

#

to my knowledge volo is not a chosen, he is a weave anchor, different concept, and i know that he is not even aware of this status

mellow ermine
#

Ehhhhhhhhhh, valid, but Volo lives like he is Chosen. Dude just doesn't die

#

And is somehow still a lvl 1 Wizard

#

somehow

feral lintel
#

lives like one doesnt mean he is

jagged apex
#

being a chosen is not at all related to not dying

feral lintel
#

thats just Volo being Volo

jagged apex
#

he basically just has a bunch of dumb luck and has accidently wound up in situations that have prolonged his life

mellow ermine
#

I refuse to believe it. Volo is not Him, he just can't be

feral lintel
#

he isnt. Hes just a lucky bastard

jagged apex
#

also he is a low level wizard because he is very much more involved in is works of writing, for better or worse, and basically like a bard is all about drama and story telling and sometimes just flat out greed and fame, rather than proper arcane research and gathering knowledge and power

#

he has a few spells of his own invention that are more so utility or quality of life based for himself rather than anything trying to be powerful or revolutionary

mellow ermine
#

Right, but how milestones has he unironically achieved, and he's lvl JUAN

jagged apex
#

and in regards to his survivability, some of his reasons why he is still alive today involves things like elminster turning him into a petrified frog for a while

#

level is not really a lore thing that measures strength, but as i said, he is the arcane scholar equivalent of the kind of journalist more concerned about success and clicks over facts, the man is known as an unreliable narrator for a reason

feral lintel
#

yeah, the reason hes level 1 is that hes just. Not trying to become more powerful

jagged apex
#

this is pretty even barely laid in the article giving a degree of a peak at the heroes of the forgotten realms in the new books, to quote
"You've heard his name. You've seen his books (whether or not you trust them). Volothamp Geddarm is Faerûn's most infamously unreliable author, traveler, and name-dropper. He's penned guides to monsters, dungeons, cities—and likely annoyed every archmage and archfiend from here to Sigil in the process.
Endlessly curious and obliviously brave, Volo's misadventures are often more dangerous to him than to his readers. Still, if he says he's dined with a dragon or dated a dryad? It might even be true.
When exploring goblin encampments or cities infected with illithid tadpoles, it's best to check the dungeons to see if he needs to be rescued."

#

end quote

#

equal parts dumb luck and oblivious, or as some may say just being dumb

#

to put it this way, if luck was a stat, volo would have invested in it heavily

#

probably without even realizing it XD

little wind
#

Wait so is Annam an Overgod like Ao?

jagged apex
#

no

#

at least not to my knowledge

reef cape
jagged apex
#

Annam is officially a greater deity, at least in the forgotten realms

#

and in 5e is listed as lawful neutral, so does not seem to fit the definition of an overgod from what i can tell based on reading it

#

he is the leader of the giant pantheon, but that is not the same thing as being an overgod just because the likes of Io and Corellon are described as overgods in some sources, that just means they are arguably overgods in addition to being heads of a pantheon, rather than the two concepts being the same thing

reef cape
#

Hmm... How strange. It seems the term "overgod" does not appear in On Hallowed Ground. Which the FR wiki uses as a source for claiming that Corellon and Asgorath are.

#

Wiki once again misrepresenting sources?

#

In any case, it appears the FR wiki page on Overgods is not to be trusted.

#

... On Hallowed Ground is used as the source for quite a lot of that page actually. And it does not mention overgods at all. This page is actually completely worthless

autumn temple
#

Planescape tends to call the gods "powers", and "overpowers" does pop up in the text a few times... but I do find the wiki article rather self contradictory.

reef cape
#

It's worse than self contradictory. It misrepresents its sources. Corellon is called a "greater power" in that book. Not a single mention of the word "overgod" can be found throughout the book.

#

This is worse than sloppy editing, this is just straight up lying and speculation

#

Who wrote this wiki page? There has to be an explanation for such unacceptable job. Is it that one page has been split into two thoughtlessly?

jagged apex
#

even the wiki aside, the understanding of what an overgod/overpower is, to me still feels like something that given the major known example, Annam does not fit the bill of do to having a divine ranking, not being confined to one setting, having an alignment, and presumably still requring worship as we know he is still worshiped or at least respected along side their other gods

autumn temple
#

again, "overpower" is the same as "overgod"... I've got one line on them at the end of the first section on page 37, and a paragraph on them at the end of the "single sphere powers" section on 38... that I've found so far.

jagged apex
#

and besides Ao, the other major example is dragonlance's "high god"

#

and we know Annam is worshiped in multiple settings, so at the very least that proves or at least leans more towards him not being an overgod/power in published materials

autumn temple
#

and those do seem to be the two defined examples. By the description of their nature Corellon shouldn't be because he's very much not single sphere aligned.

reef cape
#

Oh yeah, Shiraxis, you're right. The problem is that the page is basically conflating "overgod" and "overpower", an overpower being a super-god and a creator god, while an overgod is a god with power over other gods in their sphere of influence.

mellow ermine
#

I think I got more psychic damage off of reading that

jagged apex
#

so only way i could see one thinking that he might have been one is if they mistakenly believed it was a term that referred to a head of a pantheon especially with Asgorath/Io and Corellon as examples depending on some sources and others only being suspected in universe theorized ones like the world serpent

#

but again, even if you take those as true, seems clear to me at least they just happen to be both, and not the two being the same thing

reef cape
#

Yeah, so, anyways, to get back to the original question, Annam fits the definition of an "overpower", but the wiki editors have failed to notice that there is a difference between an overpower and an overgod

autumn temple
#

I think those two terms (overgod/overpower) are correct to use interchangeably, but the "super-god/creator god" category is generally pantheon heads or other greater gods, who are below overgods/powers.

reef cape
#

As it stands, if it's true for Corellon, it's true for Annam. Probably more true for Annam, considering how Annam has been written in 5th edition.

jagged apex
#

and they do point out in the notes part regarding those two gods i mentioned earlier "Despite being stated to be an overgod, Corellon was not restricted to a single sphere or location, instead being called "overpower of the elvish race". This, along with Asgorath being the god of dragons, potentially implies that this restriction was not universal."

reef cape
#

Yes Scarlet, this note just proves that the one who wrote it misunderstood On Hallowed Grounds and other related sources.

jagged apex
#

though for what is worth, in the realms at least, it does cite ed greenwood himself as saying a god could be elevated to the station of overgod and not every sphere has one

#

though is cited from "Ed Greenwood/The Hooded One (2010-06-16). Questions for Ed Greenwood (2010). Candlekeep Forum. Retrieved on 2022-12-31." and last i checked that was a site i was unable to check myself, so can't confirm what the direct source says on that

reef cape
#

I should check Faiths & Avatars and Faiths & Pantheons though. This may shed some more light on this whole thing

jagged apex
#

so if Annam were an overgod, is not in any setting we have seen in published materials so far

reef cape
#

Well, anyways, I would like to say "who cares, the concept of overgod is dead since 4th edition"

jagged apex
#

i disagree since the more recent retreat of many gods in the realms is do to the demands of lore Ao

#

so it still seems a relative term even now, even if rarely seen

reef cape
#

No, I mean the term literally has not appeared since 3rd edition. 3rd edition was, to my knowledge, the last time the term appeared.

#

No lore since then has used that word

autumn temple
#

one line in the book says Corelleon is overpower of the elves (first page of elven pantheon chapter), but the list of powers at the back has him listed as a greater deity and only lists Ao and the High God as overpowers

#

all the rest of the content that mentions overpowers seems to imply they are big bosses of single sphere pantheons.

reef cape
#

So the mistake actually comes from the book?

autumn temple
#

It is in the book, and the wiki properly cites it. It does seem self contradictory, but it's rather an old book to be getting errata for at this point. Seems to fall in the reconciliation between the source books being authoritative works, but also not always accurate.

little wind
#

I thought overgod just meant like having true omnipotence. Unmoved mover sort of deal

reef cape
#

Oh no, that's not a thing in D&D.

#

It's just a logical thing, you know? There can't be more than one omnipotent creature. Either one is omnipotent or none is.

little wind
#

That’s why I asked, because AO seems omnipotent but from what Iv read about giants. Annam seems to be outside of his control

north vault
#

He's not omnipotent. He's limited to Realmspace. I am not sure he can leave Realmspace or affect anything outside of it. Moreover, he has never showed any ability that is not related to the divine.

#

I think his only actual powers are to affect gods, and he can't actually do anything to people who are not gods. Except maybe make them gods

mellow ermine
#

I think in return for his ability to restrain the gods, he sacrificed his ability to influence anyone not godly

little wind
jagged apex
mellow ermine
#

For a god to surrender any amount of power, still a hell of a thing]

jagged apex
#

keeping an eye on the mortals is something largely delegated to the other gods under him far as i am aware

#

to my knowledge Ao did not surrender any power

jagged apex
#

and gods like Annam are worshiped in multiple settings, not just realmspace

mellow ermine
#

His powers are literally limited to Realmspace, so something's there

jagged apex
#

his job is to keep the balance of the cosmos in realmspace, and cares little for things beyond that job as given to him by the luminous beings that he works for

autumn temple
spare smelt
#

Is Wulfgar a Uthgardt or Reghedmen? The wiki says Uthgardt but his history is around Icewind Dale

topaz bay
#

He’s Elk Tribe Reghed, im pretty sure Uthgardt is the general term for tribespeople from what i can find

#

So Reghed regional Uthgardt overall

jagged apex
#

that faith being that towards the hero turned deity Ulthgar, hense the name

dusk sky
reef cape
dusk sky
#

Because that power isn’t exactly infinite if they’re limited

reef cape
#

Well... Yes and no. When we say "infinite power" we mean one of two things:

  1. Write an infinite list of powers that can be conceived, it's the powers of that character
  2. That character has a limited set of powers, but the level of that power is infinite, in the sense that it simply cannot be countered.
#

There's a difference between something being "infinite" and something being "all encompassing".

dusk sky
#

Like how there’s an infinite set of even numbers, and an infinite set of odd

reef cape
#

Even if I remove the number 2 from an infinite set of number, that set of number is still infinite. It just is not all-encompasing.

#

... Oh, great minds do think alike

dusk sky
#

Yes, yes they do

dusk sky
reef cape
#

Yes

#

Now, to get back to D&D... There's really no such thing as either infinite or all-encompassing. Even the goddess of magic can be killed by magic

dusk sky
reef cape
#

Not in the sense you are thinking, no.

#

(Though to be fair, it would be more accurate to call Mystra the goddess of weave magic. Magic that does not use the weave is outside her purview)

dusk sky
#

Y’know, that means D&D has multiple magic systems

#

Divine, from the weave, fiendish, and I guess magic blood?

reef cape
#

Not what I was referring to

#

But... Yes. Gods don't rely on the weave to do their stuff. Neither do fiends.

#

Magic blood is not a thing, unless you're referring to sorcerers, who do use the weave

#

But monks do not. What they do is not called "magic" by rules, but it is a magic system

feral lintel
#

yeah, its just narratively magical, not mechanically magical

reef cape
#

In essence, if you look at the PC classes, every spellcasting is the product of weave magic. But once you're outside of spellcasting, things get complicated.

dusk sky
dusk sky
reef cape
#

Mystra was not. Mystril was killed by weave magic.

#

To be precise, the 12th level spell Karsus' avatar which killed her, drained her divinity and gave it to the caster.

dusk sky
#

Right, and that’s why we can only go to 9th level magic

feral lintel
#

then the system crashed and killed Karsus

reef cape
#

Sadly since the caster was dumb enough to target the goddess of magic while he was standing on a flying city, he did not consider the fact that the amount of time he needed to actually ascend to becoming the god of magic would be an amount of time without any god of magic, during which the weave of magic was destroyed. Therefore the flying city crashed.

feral lintel
reef cape
#

Mystra, however, was killed by... Well having a gauntlet shoved through her body, destroying her internal organs.

dusk sky
reef cape
#

The other Mystra just got stabbed with a sword that also was a god who turned himself into a sword for some reason.

dusk sky
#

So none of the gods get along in D&D

#

Sounds like a proper mythology

feral lintel
#

theres enough of them that get along

reef cape
#

Who told you that? Plenty of them do get along

feral lintel
#

The Triad comes to mind

dusk sky
#

Must’ve gotten confused

reef cape
#

The elven gods are basically a big happy family, who prefers not to talk about the dad's ex-wife. And the uncle who had a fling with the dad's ex-wife.

dusk sky
#

Oooh family drama

reef cape
#

Or the children of the dad's ex-wife who decided to live with their psychotic mother and therefore turned into different shades of psychotic

dusk sky
#

Also, do the different settings of D&D all take place in the same general “multiverse”

#

The officially published ones at least

reef cape
#

Yes. More or less.

#

Some settings are more or less excluded from the greater multiverse, such as Eberron and Dark Sun. Eberron has like two or three books that mentions it as being actually an accessible part of the multiverse with possible crossovers. I'm told the creator is not a fan of that. Dark Sun is... Well, it's the abandoned setting so it does not really matter

#

Anyways those two settings are separated by necessity. They are less theistic in essence. In Dark Sun there are no gods, it may be an actual atheistic setting. In Eberron, nobody really knows if the gods are real or not.

dusk sky
#

I see

reef cape
#

In most other settings, there is no doubt about the reality of the gods. If you live in Waterdeep and go to the festivals at the temple of Selune, there's a non-zero chance that you once saw an avatar of Selune being summoned by the clerics to bless the festival.

dusk sky
#

Also, are the planes of water and fire (and other elemental) planes the literal source of each element?

#

Like they leak into the material plane and when someone makes a fire the fire just hops into this one

reef cape
#

An ordinary campfire is not a portal to the elemental plane of fire if that is what you are asking

dusk sky
reef cape
#

But... In theory, it works more as... The theory of forms than the actual "source".

#

In the sense that all fires can be seen as the manifestations of the flames of the elemental plane of fire, which can be considered to be the platonic ideal of flame, undilluted by the presence of other elements

dusk sky
#

I see

#

Good concept!

dusk sky
reef cape
#

Nope. Destroying a plane is close to impossible.

dusk sky
#

Makes sense

reef cape
#

Or indeed, maybe other elements used to exist that we do not have the mental ability to conceive of because they have been destroyed so thoroughly even conceptualizing, nevermind remembering they existed, is impossible. But that would be speculation. Fun speculation though

#

What's that line in that game? "That wolf once ate a mountain, then he ate the word for when you're so hungry you don't feel hungry anymore, then he ate the fifth season that came between winter and spring"

dusk sky
#

A “Quintessence” whose elemental plane was completely eradicated

reef cape
#

Speculation probably goes into another channel though

dusk sky
#

So thoroughly, that all of its traces were lost from the material plane and it became legend

dusk sky
spare smelt
#

This maybe be overthinking it, with magic and other bs going on, but is there any reasoning as to why path of the giant barbarians only temporarily transform into giants and they can’t just hold it.

I suppose it really isn’t much different than a bear barbarian temporarily being resistant to almost everything but I guess it’s because size is a physical change

feral lintel
#

not really a lore thing

chrome moon
#

Before I confuse myself again, tomb of horrors was greyhawk and annhilation was faerun/chult with vecna from greyhawk?

surreal galleon
#

Wouldn't Mimdflares have tiny legs?

#

Since I never see them depicted walking much

reef cape
#

Vecna and Acererak both are Greyhawk characters originally. But the tomb of annihilation is built in Chult, on Faerun, on Abeir-Toril in the Forgotten Realms setting

topaz bay
#

There’s a great lore episode on both Acerak and Vecna on the dungeonpedia podcast, not an ad js remembered alot of fun stuff

chrome moon
#

I´ll take a look, but out of curiosity, is there a sourcebook on chult? And I keep forgetting that Acecerak exists

dire olive
#

What’s the lore origin of a fomorian?

#

I read somewhere ages ago they were elf-related or something?

#

Not sure

chrome moon
# dire olive Not sure

IRL they are dark skinned giants that lived on ireland before the proto celts there. That´s the mythological origin at least

dire olive
#

I meant in dnd but my wording was terrible. Apologies

#

I mean, what’s the origin of a fomorian in lore?

feral lintel
dire olive
#

Wow I was wayyy off about elves

#

Thank you

autumn temple
#

One note, for some reason the major human culture on Chult was known as the Tabaxi, which can be a bit confusing. Particularly when the catfolk also show up.

chrome moon
#

Didn´t that culture name itself after the catfolk?

autumn temple
#

that does appear to be the current lore direction to explain the similar names, though it is very much a modern afterthought.

grim siren
#

The current lore explanation is that the Human Tabaxi Tribe that originated on the continent of Katashaka was named after the feline species.

This is covered in the digital magazine Dragon + 11 under the section "Lore You Should Know: Tabaxi vs. tabaxi."

chrome moon
jagged apex
jagged apex
# dire olive I meant in dnd but my wording was terrible. Apologies

if curious the setting agnostic lore for them as of late is from bigby's their deity is known as Karontor, who's lore reads "Karontor is the elder twin of Grolantor. In a handful of myths, Karontor appears as a wicked schemer whose hatred of his brothers knows no bounds. The fomorians once occupied a place in the ordning corresponding to Karontor’s place, but then Karontor incited the fomorians to assault the Feywild. Just as the fomorians were banished into the Underdark, so too did Annam banish Karontor to a subterranean prison." end quote

#

also regarding his worshipers "Priests and Rites. Few dare to worship Karontor, even in secret. Superstitious giants believe if his name is spoken, Karontor might burrow up from the Underdark to drag the hapless speaker underground to an eternity of torture. To avoid uttering his name, giants sometimes refer to him as “the banished son,” “the forgotten one,” or “the king that crawls.” A few cults revere him, beseeching him for sinister magical secrets or to consume their enemies." end quote, this is setting agnostic lore by the way

feral lintel
#

2024 MM has

Once infamous for their magical aptitude, fomorians are giants afflicted with a fey curse. In their pride, they were tricked into invading the Feywild to claim its magic for their own. When the archfey rulers of that realm united, the fomorians were turned back and cursed with supernatural strangeness to make their bodies match their vile souls. Ever since, fomorians have dwelled in the Underdark amid the ruins of their magical cities. The archfey’s curse afflicts them still, tormenting them with wandering cankers, lurching organs, and stranger discomforts.

jagged apex
#

ah, i was refferencing bigbys, i forgot they appeared in 2024 books, thanks for catching that ti-moth

feral lintel
#

NP, you meantioning setting agnostic made me remember the new MM lol

jagged apex
#

Amity likely thought they were related to elves cuz them before their curse and fall was described as being very similar to elves in appearance, depicted in bigby's as the "Fomorian Noble" to partially quote "In their arrogance, these fomorian nobles unknowingly escaped the dreadful fate of their kin, and they remain unchanged in their remote enclaves. Occasionally they return to the Material Plane to survey the world they left. With angular features and apparently ageless faces, these fomorians resemble gigantic elves."

#

that is likely where they got the idea of them being related to elves, the only remembers the last part of that portion of their lore

#

is kind of funny in a kind of dark way, that some nobles of the formorians basically escaped their people's horrible fate by complete accident and dumb luck XD

sharp venture
#

Is there a connection between Bhaal or his fellow death Gods and the Shadowfell itself?

#

Like, the realm of Death and Decay vs the Gods that usupred the original God of Death in Jergal

#

Or is it like, mainly a Selune vs Shar situation?

autumn temple
#

I'm a little confused by Shar's reasons for creating it, though it may have been a consolation prize of sorts after her attempt to supplant Mystra failed so spectacularly.

sharp venture
#

Thats actually really cool!

#

I'm asking because as flexible as BG3's lore is for it's story

#

Figured I'd check that angle for an idea on the most thematically relevent class to the Dark Urge

inner trellis
#

Is it ever directly described what a Wizard does to cast a spell? Like, what is it that they need to learn for (usually) so many years?

#

"To manipulate the weave", sure! But what does that actually look like?

feral lintel
#

The sigils and formulas

inner trellis
#

If it were just that, wouldn't everyone be able to cast a spell within a few days, just by learning a single formula? Like, if that was the case, you wouldn't need to understand what it means, just replicate it.

#

But I doubt anyone could cast a spell, just because they had a super detailed step by step guide.

feral lintel
#

i think youre overestimating how easy it is to just learn magic

inner trellis
#

I am specifically not! I was saying your answer sounded TOO easy!

feral lintel
#

... that was just a summary

autumn temple
#

not sure it's ever clearly described.. there's the funny chanting and the finger waving, but Sorcerers also have to cover that part. Focusing on the differences between them, Wizards are more interested in codifying and recording magic, and also less naturally attuned to the source of magic.

feral lintel
#

Most Wizards share a scholarly approach to magic. They examine th theoretical underpinnings of magic, particularly the categorization into schools of magic

#

the phb has the information on how they cast and learn spells

inner trellis
#

You misunderstand my question Ti!
I am not looking for a broad answer, but for something like "They see a weave of infinite possibilities before their eyes, knowing exactly which string to pull thanks to years of experience".

#

I doubt it was ever fully described somewhere, but I wanted to make sure.

feral lintel
#

Wild and enigmatic, varied in form and function, the power of magic draws students who seek to master its mysteries... Though the casting of a typical spell requires merely the utterances of a few strange words, fleeting gestures, and sometimes a pinch or clump of exotic materials, these surface components barely hint at the expertise attained after years of apprenticeship and countless hours of study

#

2014 PHB

inner trellis
#

"these surface components barely hint at the expertise attained after years of apprenticeship and countless hours of study."

Exactly that part is what I am interested in. Was it ever actually described somewhere?

feral lintel
#

as far as both PHBs, no. Might wager a delve into the FR Wiki at the least

#

what is it exactly youre looking for? Your other reply does not make sense

inner trellis
#

I want to know what a WIzard actually learns, before they can cast a spell.

feral lintel
#

that specific flavor might be specific to setting

inner trellis
#

Forgotten Realms.

feral lintel
#

Im fairly sure its just what i said before, i also think Mystra has something to do with it, since shes the one who approves and limits spells casted through the weave

#

might be worth a glance at the FR wiki tho

sharp venture
#

Odd question but what of the metallic dragons get along with the other of Bahamut's legacy?

inner trellis
#

Metallic Dragons are usually quite chill (as chill as Dragons get, at least).

feral lintel
#

Some might be a more standoffish, but at base, theyre usually some flavor of good

sharp venture
#

Fair. But Im mainly curious if like.. Brass and Bronze have beef or are they best friends

feral lintel
#

at base, they would be allies. Any beef would be personal

sharp venture
#

As an example I mean.

feral lintel
#

The conflict is usually with other dragons from other families

sharp venture
#

At least among metallic

feral lintel
#

again, at base, not so much. If there is, its personal and based on individual

sharp venture
#

Right right

#

Trying to see how I can pull off a Dragonborn Draconic Sorcerer

#

Without overlapping the fire resistance

feral lintel
#

you dont have to pick the same type

sharp venture
#

Of course!

#

I wanted to mix up the bloodline with another of the metallic dragons

#

Since I'm running with a Brass Dragonborn

feral lintel
#

which is more than fine. Draconic sorceror also doesnt have to be via blood relation

#

CHromatics iirc follow a pecking order

inner trellis
#

Dragons are usually solitary. So they might still fight over territory and stuff like that.
But they could also be friends who regularly visit each other.

Like, Chromatic Dragons would usually just tear each other apart. But Metallic ones might have honourable duels, or just talk about their differences.
But there really is not catch all lore here. Dragons are highly intelligent and usually not alike any other Dragon.

feral lintel
#

Red usually at top, white at bottom

#

I mean, Copper are extremely social

sharp venture
#

Brass WANTS to be social but really

feral lintel
#

ah, is it brass? i always get brass copper and bronze mixed up

sharp venture
#

Brass dragons are the autistic dragons

inner trellis
#

Yep, those would definitely visit for tea every month :D

feral lintel
#

if not kidnap you for the sake of conversation

sharp venture
#

Copper is like, the gnome bard of the dragons to be fair

#

YOU JUST GOT PRANKED BRO

feral lintel
#

but yeah, as far as im concerned, there is no general emnity or conflict with within metallics

inner trellis
#

"Come on man, I only put you in that cage for 50 years.. Dont be a such a wuss about it.."

sharp venture
#

all the metallics equally get along essentially with each other with no real biases between them

feral lintel
#

generally yes

sharp venture
#

Hmm... okay then- I'll ask about mechanically speaking then in another channel but to be sure, what element would pair well with Fire?

#

Ice, Acid, or Lightning?

inner trellis
#

Are we talking thematically or mechanically?

feral lintel
sharp venture
tired walrus
#

Characters of THAT dnd cartoon(1983) still alive in modern dnd lore?

covert island
#

They are in the PHB for 2024 :)

tired walrus
#

and what level they can possibly have?

tired walrus
#

i think presto can be archmage

#

i think he good boy enough to be summoned by Sending spell by one of my npcs that need little help for fine price

halcyon wigeon
#

Hello - I am wondering what are the best available resources (leaning more towards books and PDFs than wiki pages) regarding the Forgotten Realms setting?

I've played 5e on-and-off for about the past 5-6 years. I find much of the published material to be vague, sometimes unhelpfully so. The Sword Coast Guide was pretty thin and disappointing IMO.

But I've recently started looking back at the 80s B/X and BECMI sets. The setting used for those, Mystara/The Known World, has a massive amount of material for it. Detailed maps, city/town maps, relevant dungeon locations, entire books devoted to detailing subregions of the world.

I'm wondering if TSR or WoTC ever made anything close to that for the Forgotten Realms? 3e and 4e would count as well. I'd like to more than what 5e tells me, such as important landmarks within cities or important factions and personnel. WoTC seem to leave everything up to the DM, from what I can see. Just any useful sources of lore that can help shape, structure, and direct adventures and campaigns.

calm crest
versed hare
autumn temple
jagged apex
#

like the domains in 5e, death is pretty flexible in what context it can be, gods like bhaal are but one example of a hyper specific aspect of it, basically bhaal is only a death god in the sense his clerics channel the domain of death for their spells

jagged apex
# sharp venture Like, the realm of Death and Decay vs the Gods that usupred the original God of ...

the shadowfell is really neither of those things, a realm of entropy sure, but not exactly of death and decay, and to my knowledge when not simply trying to bolster their own power in general, most of the dead 3 focus on the world of toril on the prime material plane rather than the other planes, also the shadowfell is mainly a realm of shadow and gloam and to my knowledge only became more associate with the undead and dead when shar had infused the realm with energy from the negative energy plane in the past during 3e

#

also the dead 3 are death theme but not really death gods, plus to be fair they are also known as "the dark gods"

#

and the name was mainly cuz all 3 of them died during the time of troubles, despite later coming back all be it weaker

#

so not exactly a name they are proud of i'd wager as it's more or less an insult

#

if any of them had ties i'd imagine it would be Myrkul as he was the former god of the dead until he was slain and replaced

#

funny enough, officially he serves under the mortal turned god that replaced him, Kelemvor

autumn temple
#

I think that last one is actually Jergal, who's stuck around through three successor gods of the dead as a seneschal and mentor of sorts.

jagged apex
#

yeah but jergal is not really part of the dead 3

#

if anything he is opposed to them as we can see via the actions of the bg3 continuity

#

he basically often is doing things that wind up making the dead 3 the butt of many cosmic jokes, such as secretly being the patron of some sect of the cult of the dragon for their magics if i remember correctly as Ed Greenwood revealed via one of his more recent videos on the factions in the realms on his youtube channel

autumn temple
#

I don't think Myrkul owes any fealty to Kelemvor....

jagged apex
#

well he literally is cited as serving under him, so weather he likes it or not, kelemvor is his superior

autumn temple
#

hmmm, ahh, ok, spellplague stuff. (actually seems to be second sundering once I looked into it)

jagged apex
#

which is funny given how jergal is regularly basically making fools of the dead 3 as a whole, when they are not already doing it themselves like in bg3 arguably 😛

#

and even more so when you remember the dead 3 got their godhood from jergal in the first place, so he could basically low key retire or at least take a less demanding job among the gods XD

autumn temple
#

Going back to primary sources and none of the citations actually explicitly say he was working for Kelemvor.

#

I'm inclined to parse the sentence from the wiki as indicating that Jergal was in service to Kelemvor, and Myrkul happened to share similar domains.

jagged apex
#

well most of it is from 2014 sources one of them being sword coast adventurers guide, but to my knowledge any gods with same domain that are below the status of a greater deity can be many, though they would answer to the higher ranked god of that domain, and it does say that the reaper, ie myrkul brought more new souls for the new lord of the dead to judge, which heavily implies he works for kelemvor who is said lord

#

as while jergal did have the title in the past as "the grim reaper" simply "the reaper" is specific to myrkul

#

to quote as is cited on the forgotten realms wiki "However, as that which is dead can never truly die, Myrkul was worshiped as a god once more in the 15th century DR, the Reaper who brought more souls for the new Lord of the Dead to judge." end quote, cited from "Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide. Edited by Kim Mohan. (Wizards of the Coast), p. 35."

autumn temple
#

hmm, maybe, I'm interpreting it in a slightly more abstract way I think. Fortunately I think the whole thing is likely moot if BG3 gets the canon treatment, as it should leave the dead three once again as dead as gods and main characters can be.

jagged apex
#

where as jergal even back when he first gave up much of his divine power and portfolio, keeps the records of the dead or as the wiki words it "orderly accounting of the fate of the world as it slowly sank into death, the Final Scribe was the one who kept the records of the ultimate fate of all the dead."

jagged apex
#

the avatars were slain, but not by gods, let alone those of equal or greater power, so they mearly need to wait to reform those avatars

#

i doubt they would still be as focused on as they are if they were just going to kill them off again, especially in something that is by design it's own continuity with loose connections if any to the proper published continuity that we will only know what did and did not occure in the published continuity in time

#

like there are not only several outcomes to that story but also ones where the day is not saved at all much less any of the avatars of the dead 3 killed

#

dnd is like dragonball, there is not 1 singular canon, there are always several, thinking there is simply canon vs non canon is a flawed assumption to make

#

not to mention that gods and their deaths except under hyper specific conditions is closer to a comma than death in a traditional sense and the dead 3 still have their dedicated faiths on toril, so there is no reason to assume they would just suddenly go dorment cuz their avatars were destroyed by a bunch of adventurers

#

did not stop tiamat, nor aruil, least not in the long run, especially in the case of tiamat where they could still very much pursue their goals via their followers like the gods that did listen to Ao's warning unlike the dead 3, who's status was reduced to quasi-deity status for not listening, and at that cost allowing them to unlike the other gods intervene directly in the world of the material plane

sharp venture
#

Tiamat legit is the one God that scares me

jagged apex
#

good, she is scary in her own right, and has some notable reputations all be it by other names in some cases

#

dragons are scary strong, their gods even more so

tough pebble
#

Is anyone familiar with Dendar? I've got a couple questions I've been wanting to ask about her

#

A big one being is she evil? Because nothing I've read actually really says she is... well besides the whole eating the sun thing and planning on eating it again... but I mean she eats people's nightmares! That doesn't really sound like a bad thing.

feral lintel
#

Shes basically Ouroboros/Yormungrandr from my recollection

autumn temple
#

They still have the nightmares, they just can't remember them in the morning

tough pebble
tough pebble
autumn temple
#

and there is the whole: devouring the sun, plunging the world into eternal darkness and getting revenge on the gods and Ubtao for locking(?) her in the borders of the Fugue plane for an eternity.

#

Her 3e stat block considers her NE

tough pebble
#

So is she in the Fugue plane or beneath the Peaks of flame?

autumn temple
#

Why not both? The gates under the Peaks of Flame could be a literal planar Gate to an otherwise isolated section of the Fugue plane that traps her.

#

More confusing is the line in here suggesting that she takes occasional jaunts across the lower planes, which makes the prison less than effective sounding.

tough pebble
tough pebble
#

Also correct me if I'm wrong she has no genuine connection with The Night Parade besides them worshipping her right?

autumn temple
#

Champions of Ruin does say "The people of Calimport believe that she is the mother of the Night Parade, although this is not true." (142)

#

and goes on to describe a cult dedicated to her despite the inaccuracy of their beliefs.

tough pebble
#

So the general population do hold her accountable for what goes on during the parades, you know if they remember

tough pebble
#

Clerics that get their power from a proper gods despite still worshipping her

#

Yeah apparently that god is Cyric

autumn temple
#

The cult section specifically mentions that at least one "cleric of Dendar" was actually unknowingly getting his spells from Cyric... which is very Cyric.

tough pebble
#

Sounds about right

#

So does she or has she ever interacted with someone besides you know eating their dreams?

autumn temple
#

She does have some yuan-ti priests who get some amount of power, seemingly from her.

tough pebble
#

I kinda just assumed she just didn't care for people

autumn temple
#

Ill defined, I see both priest and pact in this paragraph. Could be either.

tough pebble
#

I mean I wouldn't consider both being out of the equation

#

Or it being a kind of mix

autumn temple
#

she was involved in the overthrow of Cyric: the wiki mentions that another hero wounded her and she agreed to regurgitate a whole mass of nightmares of the inhabitants of the Bone Castle to allow Kelemvor's(?) forces to storm it in the chaos.

#

The actual spellcasting abilities in the yuan-ti stat block are very Warlock focused... eldritch blast and friends.

tough pebble
tough pebble
autumn temple
#

the wiki: "she unleashed the night-terrors of the Bone Castle's residents". Her stat block suggests that she can drive people insane by forcing them to endlessly relive their worst nightmares. Alternatively acting a version of the Nightmare spell, which I'd have to look up because I'm not sure it made the transfer to 5e entirely intact.

tough pebble
tough pebble
# tough pebble So is she in the Fugue plane or beneath the Peaks of flame?

Watching a video on her now and their quoting something from Gwydion "His grandfather had told him thay the Night Serpent are the horrible dreams of disobedient boys and girls, growing fat so she could rise from Hades at the end of the world and swallowed the sun".
So... She's chilling in Hades as well?

autumn temple
#

The location of Jergal's (and succesors') domain has moved a bit over the years, and depending on which cosmology model is in play. Sometimes it's described as being a neutral demiplane somewhere in the Astral Sea, sometimes it's been carved out of a section of the first layer of Hades.

tough pebble