#dnd-lore

1 messages · Page 77 of 1

bronze sinew
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I think they continue to age and get bigger

crude blaze
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It’s definitely a little weird now that the new MM just has the “Juvenile Shadow Dragon” and the “Shadow Dragon”, but doesn’t use the standard dragon age categories. But I suppose it’s at least safe to say that anything younger than an Adult dragon is a “Juvenile”

turbid ginkgo
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What is a shadow dragon ? (New comer here sorry)

calm crest
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A dragon infused with the energies of the Shadowfell, typically after being trapped there for an extended period of time.

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Others are just indigenous to the Plane of Shadow.

jagged apex
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nothing in the new monster manual suggests they don't still increase in size as true dragons normally do

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be they native or ones that have undergone a magical transformation, they are still true dragons at their core

jagged apex
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in the latest version, there are 3 ways a shadow dragon can be the result of a transformed dragon to quote the sentence that describes it "While they might have once been other types of dragons, the influence of planar forces, negative energy, or sinister magic has stripped them of their former color or luster. " end quote

light stone
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anyone owns the wildermount book? i read a wiki about bladegarden and theres this Spirit of Virtue which was stolen by cultist? But what is this relic, i cant find any info about it?

jagged apex
crude blaze
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Yeah, I wouldn’t consider it to be anything “official”.

jagged apex
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if you wanna learn about it, your best bet would be to watch the oneshot and see if it is more clearly described, else is just basically a item clearly ment to be a plot point in said one shot and is likely not detailed in any of the books for the setting that they and wizards of the coast may have put out

true saffron
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Would a Life Cleric work in the Dark Sun setting?

grim siren
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No reason why they wouldn't Dark Sun is a Godless Setting and Clerics draw powers from the elements. In the dunes of Athas, there would be nothing more life giving than Water.

true saffron
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I haven't even thought of that! I was thinking a different form of preserving.

clear pine
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How well mapped and well known is the surrounding region of the city of greyhawk. Considering the map of the 2024 DMG, is it fair to assume player's would know those locations?

lapis slate
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Does anyone know what Dnd setting Dragon Quest was set in?

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The dungeons and dragons board game thing not the anime game

sharp owl
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I don't think it was

jagged apex
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so could be was just it's own thing

sharp owl
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It was just a miniatures game based on D&D

raw wolf
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Is there any lore pertaining to why no magic can revive someone who died from old age?

sharp owl
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For which setting?

raw wolf
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I was thinking dnd lore in general. I don't really have a specific setting in mind.

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I forgot dnd lore is very segmented into settings

jagged apex
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a sort of inescapable truth of the cosmos so to speak

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so if you die of old age, that's it, but at least in dnd afterlife is a thing in most settings do to the outerplanes, so at least is not the end technically

raw wolf
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When a soul goes to an outer plane, can the soul plane shift back to the plane they died in?

jagged apex
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yes and no

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yes as in they in theory could, but when you pass on to the afterlife you are not necessarily the same you were in life, like you lose your actual memories, and are effectively a different being, especially if you are there long enough to be promoted to a higher form of being https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Petitioner

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like in your new life in the afterlife you as far as i am aware you will have at best vague emotional recollections of things of significant to you in life, but not your actual memories unless a god or other entity goes out of their way to reunite you with these memories, which from what i am aware in older editions would manifest in the astral plane as sort of orbs of memory that would either fade over time or be eaten by astral dreadnaughts https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Afterlife

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and in one of the 5e planescape books, mortes planar parade, establishes that mechanically petitioners have a feature that keeps them restricted to the outer planes, so seems these days they can't be summoned from the outer planes or leave it via magical means

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where, and this is setting agnostic, so not dependant on any particular setting excluding those with self contained cosmologies, petitioners are described as "Petitioners are former mortals. They’ve lived, ceased living, and now exist on the Outer Planes. They typically inhabit a plane that shares their alignment or the realm of a deity they worship. Some, however, become lost and wander the planes or make new homes for themselves elsewhere on the Great Wheel." end quote, and in regards to death and the planes says "Mortals that die eventually have their souls return as petitioners in far-flung reaches of the Outer Planes. There, they manifest as idealized versions of themselves. These forms might be similar to the forms they had in life or be those of entirely different creatures. A petitioner or another Celestial or Fiend that is destroyed can reconstitute on a plane that shares its alignment after 100 years, or it might choose to become one with that plane and never return. A creature that re-forms on the planes multiple times becomes increasingly dissimilar from its original mortal form." end quote

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so you kind of effectively become a new being, so is not like you would have any reason to try to go back to the material plane once you have crossed over as it were

raw wolf
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Great, ty!

uncut umbra
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if you sustained an injury in the astral sea, and you were just left thought floating, would the injury not heal, and not get worse, until you reached somewhere to heal it or somewhere where time works normally?

jagged apex
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time is slow to the point it is almost still, like so slow that for all intensive purposes is not moving at all, so you would still be sustaining that injury if you are there in your actual body and not doing something like astral projecting, but healing magic could likely fix it far as i know if you were to use the proper for the situation but if you take further harm, you are still gunna get more wounded

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so like if you were cut open and somehow not slain by a githyanki's blade, you'd still bleed out

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like with how slow the flow of time would be compared to the prime material plane, far as i am aware unless you were native like the githyanki became over the ages, your body's natural healing would be to slow to seal any wounds and thus would be bleeding out if they were deep enough to draw blood

jagged apex
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cuz last i checked travel in the astral plane is linked with thought, and if you are bleeding out it would be hard to stay focused on your destination before losing consciousness or dying

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also to my knowledge there is not even any places in the astral plane where time would flow normally, at least if your definition of normal is that of the prime material plane, except maybe the domains of a god if you happen to stumble across one depending on the god

uncut umbra
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@jagged apex thank you this is exaclty what i was looking for. I just read through most of Spell Jammers yesterday for a new character and was wondering what this would look like.

jagged apex
severe basin
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In previous editions the domains of dread were like all on an island surrounded by a sea of sorrows right

calm crest
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They used to have a more specific layout before being broken up and scattered. One of the versions was depicted as such.

scenic beacon
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I'm looking for info on Loudwater and surrounds. Can anyone point me to a few good wiki or free-floating adventures that describe it and the area?

cinder cloud
feral lintel
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Are there any demonlords that orcs or Gruumsh himself might have beef with?

reef cape
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Nothing of the sort in published material, save for Gruumsh's beef with Lolth. But everyone has beef with Lolth

jagged apex
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i'd say she counts, given she is both a goddess and a demon lord, she can check either box or both

chilly turtle
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hey guys, can anyone recommend books or written texts that explore the magic of D&D in more detail? how magic exerts its foundation in the world and how magicians see magic

sterile breach
chilly turtle
cinder cloud
jagged apex
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at best for a universal one is what little lore and or flavor text is given when describing magic in the new books but that is mostly mechanics

jagged apex
calm crest
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Or both. Or never existed.

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It's pretty ambiguous on Athas.

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Athas does still have divine magic though—elemental priests are clerics who draw on the Inner Planes, and templars receive divine powers directly from the Sorcerer-Kings.

cinder cloud
jagged apex
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most common form of magic i am aware of on athas is either psionic or mana based, basically taking the energies of the multiverse making up say a sun to cast fireball, though not sure how accurate that is especially for the current continuity as we mostly only know of it to still exist in passing and what little info we get is vague and minimal for the time being, so would require some guess work and access to materials from previous iterations since our info on it as it exists in the current continuity is very limited

calm crest
jagged apex
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though what ever the case is, from what i recall athas does not view magic in general all that well do to what it did to the world, so i imagine seeing someone using magic is extremely rare on athas

calm crest
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Psionics on Athas are expressly not magic.

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Arcane magic is feared and rightfully so on Athas, as the most common kind destroys all life nearby in order to be cast, causing pain and ruining vegetation for generations.

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Divine magic is less fearsome, as it is less rare and doesn't involve defiling.

jagged apex
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eh, in the past at least, psionics itself changes with each edition so far and we don't have enough info on it as it exists in the current continuity to see how if at all they square that circle since in 5e psionics is a specific form of magic

calm crest
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In lore, it is distinct from magic.

cinder cloud
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Regardless, the way magic works is different in every setting, which is the main point.

jagged apex
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again, in the past, far as i know the majority of detailed lore, let alone pertaining to things like magic, are only from previous editions so we have nothing in regards to the new nature of psionics current

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will say this much, i am very curious how that sort of thing is addressed if we are ever given new dark sun lore for 5e

calm crest
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Which it is interesting, as it's the only setting cited in the DMG which 5e has had no content expressly related to (other than a few Athasian monsters randomly in Spelljammer).

fringe terrace
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Do Duergar have any of their own deities or gods that they worship? Even in lores/settings where they're typically evil or gone mad?

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In any official settings really, just like any deity that is specifically tied to or worshipped by them?

cinder cloud
fringe terrace
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Oh my god these two are so perfect. Thanks a bunch.

drowsy wraith
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Hey! Dark Sun question for you. Are there still hobgoblins alive on Athas? Is there a Sorcerer King or Queen known for wiping them out?

reef cape
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Daskinor slaughtered them successfully.

jagged apex
reef cape
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That page is bare bones. Daskinor was tasked with the extermination of goblinkind by Rajaat, the unsuccessful extermination of Aarakocras was Lalali's task.

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According to 1995's Dark Sun Campaign Setting at least

jagged apex
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yeah on forms and other search results for the topic i see him actually attributed with the destruction of all goblinoids, and having, presumably from this act, a title of "goblin death"

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is unfortunate more obscure/old settings don't have as much dedication to their accuracy as the forgotten realms wiki does

reef cape
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I don't know, the Forgotten Realms wiki sometimes suffers from citogenesis.

sharp folio
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Hey all, getting deep Into a bit of lore that I can't find much info on. During the Spellplague, was there anything that caused the actual land of Lantan to submerge besides just massive tsunamis?

cinder cloud
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The remaining land mass was hit with tsunamis and flooded. Only one of the remaining islands was submerged. Another was split in two.

severe basin
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What was the mourning in Eberron
Is it one of those things that is left vague in all of the lore and we will never know what it really was

unkempt merlin
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What it is is fairly well explained in most source books for eberron

What caused it is intentionally left a mystery

severe basin
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What do we know beyond "it destroyed all of Cyre"

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Or is that all we know

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Also, people in Cyre knew that the mourning was coming, right?

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Because they were preparing an evacuation

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Because that domain of dread in ravenloft was created by the postponement of the evacuation

unkempt merlin
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To quote Rising from the Last War

Accounts of the Mourning vary. Some say that a blinding light engulfed the battlefield near the Saerun Road. Others say that dead-gray mists rose in the capital city of Metrol and spread from there. Within the space of one day, the nation of Cyre had been engulfed in a wall of mist, and anything caught within the mists was horrifically transformed. Over a million Cyrans were killed on the day of Mourning. Those who survived were soldiers fighting in enemy territory, those living on the borders who were able to flee from the advancing mists, and those few who were able to escape the interior through magical means. On 20 Olarune 994 YK, the nation of Cyre ceased to exist.

Or the wiki https://eberron.fandom.com/wiki/Day_of_Mourning

The Mourning was in every sense, completely unexpected

severe basin
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So basically everyone who tried to evacuate via lightning rail like cyre 1313 describes just died anyways

unkempt merlin
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No?

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People tried to evacuate after it started

severe basin
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Oh

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Huh

jagged apex
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also from what is detailed there seems to imply the whole reason if not at least one possible reason it was not successful in evacuating those aboard, least not the way they had hoped

calm crest
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Cyre 1313 was explicitly delayed by the arrival of a mysterious VIP, which is why it didn’t escape the Mourning, and why that person became a Darklord.

jagged apex
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yep

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though given what happened to it, and it being covered up by the disaster of the moarning, would not blame anyone in universe for assume all aboard it to have died

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like hard to tell let alone potentially identify the infamous mists, when there is a massive magical disaster tearing things apart

calm crest
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Which seems to generally be the case for those cross-cosmology Domains of Dread. Athas’ Kalidnay was reduced to ruins, and none of the inhabitants of that world could possibly know of its fate, as Ravenloft doesn’t exist in the same universe as Dark Sun.

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Not that the Demiplane of Dread is super common knowledge in general.

unkempt merlin
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the state of much of Cyre is generally unknown in eberron due to how dangerous it is to be there, most people who didn't make it out during the mourning are assumed dead

calm crest
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And even if they survived initially, who’s to say that living spells, rogue warforged, undead, or all manner of other nasties didn’t get them.

unkempt merlin
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hence why they are assumed dead lol

calm crest
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And given what becoming a Mournborn does to you, most of the survivors are barely the people they were before.

severe basin
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I need to read more about the mournlands I think

jagged apex
severe basin
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What's the difference aside from race statistics between a Kalashtar and an Aasimar? Are they the same thing just in different settings?

jagged apex
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pretty much everything

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they are entirely different

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honestly there is nothing in other settings, let alone aasimar that is similar to the kalashtar

severe basin
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Aasimar were human-based planetouched, native outsiders that had in their blood some good, otherworldly characteristics. They were often, but not always, descended from celestials and other creatures of pure good alignment, but while predisposed to good alignments, aasimar were by no means always good.

My rising from the last war book described kalashtar as like also God human hybrids who tended towards law and good

jagged apex
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https://eberron.fandom.com/wiki/Quori these beings who fled their home plane are those who made up the "oassanger" of the original kalashtar, and do to this union, over generations they split along the bloodline, living on, but becoming weaker

severe basin
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Maybe I need to re read their section in rising from the last war

jagged apex
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you are thinking of their sinister counterparts the "Inspired"

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the book describes even before going into more specifics for the race, that the kalashtar are "The kalashtar are a compound people, created from the union of humanity and renegade spirits from the plane of dreams — spirits called quori. Kalashtar are often seen as wise, spiritual people with great compassion for others. There is an unmistakable alien quality to the kalashtar, though, as they are haunted by the conflicts of their otherworldly spirits." end quote

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and otherworldly in this context does not mean the same as it does in that of the aasimar

severe basin
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I really skimmed that book not gonna lie

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Like I'm reading it more in depth starting from page 1 I just was looking for the warforged

jagged apex
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and while aasimar are not noted in the 5e sourcebook, historically in past editions existed and to my knowledge are still a thing in that world

severe basin
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Kalashtar only exist because of eberron exclusive creatures right

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The quori

unkempt merlin
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correct

jagged apex
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also gods are not a proven thing in eberron, they are not a confirmed fact of existence like in other settings, is part of why divine magic works differently in eberron, this is something i don't believe wizards of the coast ever changed, so it would be odd to suddenly describe one of the setting specific races as being hybrids of gods

unkempt merlin
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Quori are dream "demons" (not actually demons, but just a name they have)

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not celestials

severe basin
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Gods are not mentioned in eberron lore

unkempt merlin
jagged apex
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so odds are you are misremembering info from what was skimmed, which already leaves room for errors as you are not paying attention to everything you are reading necessarily

unkempt merlin
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its just that it doesn't have confirmed gods and thus that one avenue of divine magic doesn't work the same

jagged apex
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that is what i mean

unkempt merlin
severe basin
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I saw a little blurb in the afterlife of eberron that said two things

  • the gods cannot influence the world beyond what their followers do
  • followers of the gods go to the gods when they die instead of ending up in Dolurrh
unkempt merlin
jagged apex
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is why clerics of eberron are more rooted in the philosophies of their faith as that is effectively what the "gods" of eberron are, they are collections of certain concepts the people recognize

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and yeah, these deities to appear in the sourcebook, so, they are very much still a thing

unkempt merlin
severe basin
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What about the thing where devout followers of the gods go to the gods when they die? Is this proof the gods are more than just collections of philosophies personified by humans or is this less than 100% canon

jagged apex
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i am likely not explaining it the best, but hopefully i am getting the key points across

jagged apex
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there are at best some outliers like the undying courts

calm crest
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And the Lord of Blades, a mortal warforged that has clerical worshippers.

jagged apex
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did not know anyone worshiped the lord of blades

severe basin
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By clerical worshippers you mean it's possible to gain actual cleric powers and spell slots by worshipping him?

jagged apex
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far as i was aware he is basically a powerful warforged warlord of sorts

calm crest
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Yup, there are warforged clerics that worship the LoB as a deity.

jagged apex
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as i recall divine magic in eberron is powered by one's faith vs what is the norm in say the forgotten realms

calm crest
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Clerics produce their own magic via sincere devotion in Eberron.

severe basin
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Yeah that's how divine magic works normally I'm just wondering if that's how it works in eberron too

jagged apex
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is kind of like 40k rules, strong enough believe and devotion has supernatural results

unkempt merlin
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Clerics of the Sovereigns (or Dark Six) function more or less the same as clerics in any other setting. They get portants, visions, etc same as any other, if they do anything that would involve "directly" interfacing with their deity they would moreso go an outsider (typically a celestial) that represents the concepts their deity stands for (with said agent often also "believing" in the deity the same ways the cleric does)

Clerics of say, the Silver Flame draw from the pool of power that is well, the Silver Flame (short version: a divine gestalt made from the sacrifice of nearly every native celestial: the couatl)

The Undying Court is a similar "pool" of divine power but more direct, as its made up of essentially elven liches (and undead) powered by ancestor worship (the whole Aerenai culture essentially)

The Blood of Vol is the best example of "philosophy clerics" as they are also known as the Seekers of the Divinity Within, which is more or less exactly what it sounds like: power drawn from their belief that every being has a divinity within.

jagged apex
calm crest
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In other settings, deities (or their servitors) are explicitly responsible for clerical magic.

severe basin
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Last I checked it worked like that in forgotten realms too, but it was kind of a secret that it did and might have been retconned

unkempt merlin
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there are also things like clerics drawing powers from one of the planes of eberron or getting power from an overlord (or other powerful servants of the overlords)

calm crest
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For example, in the Forgotten Realms, Ao has worshippers that behave like clerics but do not receive any magic spells.

jagged apex
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yeah in settings like the forgotten realms, the gods directly give their clerics access to their magic

unkempt merlin
unkempt merlin
severe basin
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I did read that

jagged apex
unkempt merlin
calm crest
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The DMG’25 confirms that deities grant clerics magic directly in most settings as the default.

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Not the case in Eberron, Athas, or technically Mystara, as none of those settings have confirmed gods.

severe basin
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Is there any lore for where the gods of eberron come from

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They aren't mentioned even slightly in the creation myth of the world

unkempt merlin
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nothing specific, because again, they aren't confirmed as "definitive" beings

severe basin
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So everything about their origin is vague and debated on constantly?

unkempt merlin
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the only gods that are considered real generally universally (aka both in and out of setting) are the Progenitor Dragons

severe basin
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But the thing with the dragons eberron and khyber and the good one those are 100% definitely real no question

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Gotcha

unkempt merlin
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Eberron, Khyber, and Siberys

severe basin
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Siberys

jagged apex
severe basin
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I thought it started with an S

calm crest
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Some scholars believe that the Sovereigns and Dark Six were inspired by mythologized versions of dragons that fought the Overlords. Such claims are generally considered heretical and not explicitly true.

unkempt merlin
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Many dragons, especially those from Argonessen, believe that the Sovereigns... yea

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foundational to much of dragon religion in the setting

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that they can become a Sovereign

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because the Sovereign's are "just" dragons to them

jagged apex
severe basin
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So in eberron you can gain cleric power by having strong enough faith in something
Is the opposite true? Can enough people believing in something strengthen it? If so, to what extent?

calm crest
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In the example of the Lord of Blades, it’s just a particularly strong normal warforged.

#

No divine powers or anything.

severe basin
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I see

jagged apex
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this is one of those things were not everything is spelled out to you in lore and is thus up to the players and dms, but far as i know disbelief does not cause any similar power, but the loss of faith or belief would still have an impact, just not turn into something on it's own or weaken other effects

calm crest
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It’s got nothing on even things like the warforged colossi.

severe basin
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Good to know

jagged apex
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but yeah, the colossi were like massive war machines, he'd be hard pressed to match that level of power

severe basin
jagged apex
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overlords are comparable to demon lords in other settings

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they are just very powerful, often malevilent beings of otherworldly origin

unkempt merlin
severe basin
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I see

jagged apex
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but to my knowledge there is no direct tie to their power and the fear of mortals

unkempt merlin
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there is

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the overlords actively seek this sort of this a lot of the times

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the Silver Crusade happened because of one such instance

severe basin
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Rak Tulkesh is one of them right? His lore next to his stat block said something along the lines of the last war having left him stronger

jagged apex
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from you saying in some cases, i suspect it is not nessissarily the norm, and thus depends on the overload in question?

severe basin
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Maybe not stronger

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But like in a better position to enact his schemes

unkempt merlin
severe basin
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So, you would need a continent spanning event like the last war to drum up fear of war to make rak tulkesh stronger

jagged apex
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kind of like an act of something in a god's portfolio in the realms for example?

severe basin
jagged apex
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like 1 or 2 poeple scared, is meh, but terrify an entire nation and you start to see results

severe basin
unkempt merlin
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both

severe basin
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I see

jagged apex
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i presume by faith, you mean fear in their related concept

severe basin
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Yeah

unkempt merlin
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faith is not only respect

severe basin
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Faith in the fact that if the last war restarts, terrible things will happen

jagged apex
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cuz earlier i was under the impression they fed off fear of their concepts

jagged apex
severe basin
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Eberron rising from the last war details Sul Khatesh and Rak Tulkesh
Are there any other overlords with actual well established lore? Ik they don't have super detailed lore or stats for all 30 of them since 30 is a large number

jagged apex
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yes, tiamat technically is one of them

severe basin
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Tiamat? How does tiamat play into eberron with Khyber being a thing?

jagged apex
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which i find funny given how the setting is hidden away from the rest of the setting so i just presume this manifestation of her is cut off from the goddess herself

jagged apex
severe basin
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Ah

severe basin
unkempt merlin
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Tiamat, the Wild Heart, Masvirik the Cold Sun, Katashka the Gatekeeper, and Bel Shalor are some of the more prominently featured overlords

jagged apex
jagged apex
unkempt merlin
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Tiamat is considered the Daughter of Khyber yes, she is a corrupting influence on dragonkind (and also the reason that the dragons try to stay out of conflicts by and large: to avoid her influence)

severe basin
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That's why I was asking which ones had good lore lol

jagged apex
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well tiamat is an easy bet, she always makes a big splash so to speak in any setting she is known on, even eberron all be it a lesser capacity presumably

severe basin
unkempt merlin
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indeed

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but its important to note: thats not for everything

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Thats more for "native" creatures

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which is to say, creatures from the material plane

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(and more specifically, mortals)

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dragons are a class of both afterall

severe basin
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Of course demons are evil and angels are good in eberron but

unkempt merlin
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sort of

severe basin
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Are red dragons any more likely to be evil than gold dragons

unkempt merlin
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no

severe basin
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I see

severe basin
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I mean angels can fall and demons can rise in any setting

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Is that all you mean

unkempt merlin
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fiends and celestials are heavily influenced by their origins and what they represent

So for many of them, it depends on what plane they represent.

A solar of Shavarath is going to be incredibly different than a Solar of Syrania

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or a Balor of Fernia is going to be different than a Balor of Mabar or Xoriat

severe basin
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Okay here's the question then
Are solars of evil planes a thing? And are balors of good planes a thing?

jagged apex
unkempt merlin
severe basin
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Hold on so

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Can a solar and a balor be native to the same planem

unkempt merlin
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yes

jagged apex
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solars can fall, yes, that is literally zariel's whole origin to as we know her today and in eberron they have similar beings known as "false idols" which appear in rising from the last war

unkempt merlin
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Shavarath in particular is likely to have both

severe basin
# unkempt merlin yes

Would they act and think similarly or would one still be chaotic evil and one still be lawful good

unkempt merlin
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they would still be different

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they would be liable to not necessarily be those alignments

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for example for Shavarath, they would be liable to be Neutral Good and Evil respectively

Still good and evil to some degree

jagged apex
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typically with beings of the outer planes, their nature and alignment are one in the same, if not closely intertwined

severe basin
jagged apex
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probably only applies to eberron in the broadest of strokes

unkempt merlin
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Scarlet I have to say that a lot of what you are saying is not accurate to Eberron and is only introducing more confusion

jagged apex
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sorry

unkempt merlin
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A fiend is evil, a celestial is good

severe basin
#

So what I'm getting from this is that we can have lawful evil balors and chaotic evil pit fiends, but chaotic evil solars and lawful good balors are a lot less common

unkempt merlin
#

its part of their nature as immortals

severe basin
#

Ofc but I'm just trying to find what the general rule is

#

What's common and what is a super rare exception

severe basin
unkempt merlin
unkempt merlin
severe basin
#

But the first part?

unkempt merlin
# unkempt merlin while this isn't a strictly canon source, it is a good summary by Keith about ho...

One of the core ideas of immortals in Eberron is that, as Loki would say, they are burdened with glorious purpose. They were created for a reason and most don’t have the ability to question that purpose or to chose a new path.

The depth of an immortal’s personality is usually directly related to its power and to the specificity of its purpose.

Demons as a whole are spirits of chaos and evil, and Fernian demons reflect the chaotic and evil aspects of fire—flame as a source of random, uncaring pain and suffering. For a quasit, that’s all we need—Fire bad! For a balor I’d take it a step farther, and give the balor a more specific dominion within the broad category of the cruelty of fire

severe basin
#

Okay but what about the chaotic evil pit fiends

#

Wait eberron doesn't sort fiends into categories as neatly as forgotten realms does do they

unkempt merlin
#

it does

#

(see the bit I just edited into my comment above)

#

Demons are a type of fiend

severe basin
#

Huh

#

So it's similar to the forgotten realms with the main difference being the possible planes of origin for the creatures

#

A balor can come from the same plane as a solar but a balor is still a fiend bent towards Chaos and evil and a solar is still a celestial bound towards law and good

unkempt merlin
# unkempt merlin Clerics of the Sovereigns (or Dark Six) function more or less the same as cleric...

to relate back to what I said earlier about the gods and faith and the like actually

This is where we’ve said that there are immortals who will act as intermediaries for the Sovereigns and Six, who will answer commune and planar ally on their behalf. If you seek to commune with the Devourer asking a question about fire, you might be connected to Pyraelas. Essentially, those fiends and celestials who have faith believe that they are part of the Sovereigns and Six. Pyraelas knows that the Devourer shapes every flame, and that he, Pyraelas, has the specific task of watching those that consume love. He’s never met the Devourer, but he’s certain the Devourer exists, because killing flames exist; that’s all the proof he needs. So Pyraelas is a piece of the Devourer that you can punch in the nose, but even for him, the ultimate existence of the Devourer is a matter of faith.

severe basin
#

I see

#

How are fiends and celestials created in eberron? Last I checked all the dead went to one plane, Dolurrh, so are fiends and celestials created by their planes of origin themselves?

#

I feel like this question might have already been answered somewhere up here let me re read

#

I re read it didn't come up how are fiends and celestials created

unkempt merlin
#

they simply come into existence

severe basin
#

So they're just spawned from the planes

#

Is it possible for them to just come into existence on the material plane

#

But isn't the material plane Eberron and Eberron is the dragon of true neutrality, so if a creature was theoretically spawned from eberron itself the creature wouldn't be Celestial or fiend because those represent things that aren't just neutral

unkempt merlin
#

no they could be

#

there are native fiends and celestials

#

rhakshasa for example are native fiends, and couatl (were) native celestials

calm crest
#

Fiends were largely created from the essence of Khyber, along with beings like aboleths.

#

The Overlords and their spawn, at least.

severe basin
#

Interesting

#

Are all aberrations creations of Khyber?

calm crest
#

Not most of them, many are products of the Daelkyr or Quori.

severe basin
#

What are daelkyr and quori

calm crest
#

Daelkyr are Lovecraftian figures from Xoriat. They created all the worst monsters—mind flayers, beholders, dopplegängers, gargoyles, shambling mounds, etc.

#

They also brought an end to goblinoid civilization.

severe basin
#

Xoriat is the far realm of eberron?

calm crest
#

They are currently trapped in Khyber, and their home plane was severed by the giants, destroying the 13th moon.

#

More or less.

severe basin
#

So the far realm in dnd isnt accessible by plane shift and stuff is that right

#

I'm asking because I'm wondering if xoriat is

calm crest
#

The Quori are natives of Dal Quor, and are dream beings of pure psionic thought. The original kalashtar were half-Quori, half-human.

#

The Far Realm can be accessed by Plane Shift. It’s just a really bad idea in most cases.

#

Even aberrations that visit the Far Realm come back wrong.

severe basin
#

So, you can visit the far realm with plane shift
But the far realm isn't one single place is it?
So, is there one set tuning fork, or countless possible tuning forks?

#

^That you would need according to material components to visit a place using plane shift

calm crest
#

In the Far Realm’s first appearance, the Gates of Firestorm Peak (referenced again in 5e’24 as a world-killing rift), there was a massive portal locked on to the plane. Entering it caused mortals to simply dissolve into agonized protoplasmic goop.

calm crest
severe basin
#

Honestly after asking the question I realized that is definitely not something anyone would ever ask or wonder about in lore

calm crest
#

I’m not sure if the specific tuning fork of the Far Realm has been defined.

severe basin
#

No matter the tuning fork it's a death sentence

#

Who would even make those except as an assassination attempt

calm crest
#

Mind flayers who visit the Far Realm came back obsessed with Thoon.

severe basin
severe basin
calm crest
#

The answer is maybe.

#

It could be a god, it could be a philosophy.

severe basin
#

Actually it's probably faulty to assume that anything in the far realm can be sorted into such a category

calm crest
#

Mortals who tried to explore and shield themselves from the Far Realm eventually became the kaorti, beings who are trying to corrupt the Prime into being like the Far Realm.

severe basin
#

5e mentions something about some ancient elves trying to open a portal to the far realm

#

And it not going very well

calm crest
#

Yup. The Vast Gate of Firestorm Peak.

#

They all died and horrific abominations took over their stronghold.

severe basin
#

Aren't even the gods afraid to go to the far realm

calm crest
#

The Far Realm is the place with the most Elder Evils per capita by far, and gods are expressly vulnerable to Elder Evils.

severe basin
#

By vulnerable do you mean generally less powerful than, or do you mean that the weakness of the gods is the elder evils

calm crest
#

Let’s say, hypothetically, you have a god and a mortal of equivalent power. The god in question is going to be more likely to die than the mortal against an Elder Evil. Some EEs have been stopped by mortals relatively easily, but they pose a disproportionate threat to gods.

severe basin
#

I see

calm crest
#

Some EEs are also gods, which further complicates things.

#

Elder Evil is a broad category that mostly boils down to unnatural threat to reality and god-killer.

severe basin
#

Figures

calm crest
#

Kyuss, for example, is an Elder Evil, a (demi)god, a mortal, and an undead.

severe basin
#

Ik a couple of elder evils are Primordials

calm crest
#

Yeah, some got folded into that category due to 4e.

#

-# Weird autocorrect.

severe basin
#

Isn't Dendar classified as a Primordial?

#

And an elder evil?

storm dagger
#

Elder Evils can be gods and primodrials

calm crest
#

Yes. Although Dendar has existed for longer than Primordials have been included in the cosmology.

severe basin
#

So dendar is a god, a Primordial, and an elder evil all at once then

calm crest
#

There are also beings like Zargon, who is an Elder Evil, a Mystaran Immortal, and an ancient proto-devil.

storm dagger
#

I don't think Dendar has ever been called a god from memory

#

Zargon is not a god, though it has claimed that it is.

severe basin
#

I forget sseths real name though

storm dagger
#

Set

severe basin
#

And being listed there does not necessarily mean she is a true god

severe basin
calm crest
#

Since Mystara doesn’t have gods.

storm dagger
#

the FR Wiki has a big confusing thing going on with the Yuan-Ti gods.

calm crest
#

Probably a mess of cross-edition retcons?

severe basin
#

Yeah, I may have to call dendar a "god" instead of a god

#

I should check vgtm when I get home to see if it lists dendar as a god or not

storm dagger
#

The Sseth stuff was always confusing.

#

ell, it's canon Zehir was just Set reinventing himself, as suggested in the 5E DMG, and confirmed by Thomas M. Costa:

With Sseth, it was stated in Serpent Kingdoms that Set just imprisoned/subsumed him, and impersonates him...but other materials also implied or outright stated Sseth and Merrshaulk are separate beings, with Sseth just subsumed Merrshaulk on Abeir-Toril.

So I think it's reasonable to have the "Sseth" imprisoned by Set to be Merrshaulk, while Sseth we know and Set being one and the same.

Or take the solution earlier suggested, and just have "Zehir" be Set getting back at least some worshipers from Seti.

Especially if I remember right, I discovered some time ago Storm of Zehir was originally supposed to be Storm of Sseth, and feature Sseth as the main villain, but WOTC forced Zehir to be the main villain.
And the game ironically though even foreshadows Zehir and Set being one and the same being - as it a scene that is a prophecy (along with the prophecy of the Spellplague) of Zehir overcoming Horus-Re, something hat has sense with Set.
(And originally, this would be Sseth in the prophecy, further tying him with Set.)

#

From a discussion on the Candlekeep fourms.

calm crest
#

Zehir’s really only in the 4e continuity, no?

severe basin
#

And 4e isn't relevant to much of what we discuss here

storm dagger
#

Zehir was in late 3e as well

calm crest
#

Ah.

severe basin
#

Oh

storm dagger
#

and FR 4e

calm crest
#

4e condensed the gods drastically, most of which has been undone by 5e.

storm dagger
#

Storm of Zehir was a Neverwinter Nights 2 Expansion involving taking on the Yuan Ti

calm crest
#

Admittedly yuan-ti aren’t one of my foremost areas of knowledge.

#

I just know that yuan-tillithids exist and are kinda silly.

storm dagger
#

Never heard of them until now, but it makes sense that it could happen.

#

Yuan-Ti are originally human

heady hare
#

Is it normal for tieflings to form societies like the ones shown in BG3?

severe basin
storm dagger
severe basin
storm dagger
#

The Tieflings in BG 3 are displaced refugees who were no longer welcome in their home city Elturel.

calm crest
severe basin
#

Crazy

calm crest
#

(Which is also responsible for the horribly unbalanced Sarruhk statblock, but that’s more of a #dnd-elder-editions rant.)

heady hare
#

Rather than going on their own

storm dagger
#

Then yes like lots of people they will band together if the need arises.

severe basin
#

Again, tieflings have free will and can do whatever they want

heady hare
#

I mean do they normally do that. Not whether they can

storm dagger
#

I am not aware of it.

#

The ones in 3 are just normal citizens of a diverse city

severe basin
#

The 5e phb describes tieflings as generally being loners due to being somewhat rare and usually ostracized due to their appearance

calm crest
#

Tieflings are usually found in other populations. They are created from fiendish influence in other species, and the trait can sometimes be recessive and not show up for multiple generations.

heady hare
#

Also what's the reason that their spell mod is charisma? Like lore reason? With warlock it kinda makes sense since you need good rizz to get more power from patron

jagged apex
#

that is a bit more along the lines of mechanics

heady hare
#

Same with sorcerer

jagged apex
#

presumably is cuz of their fiendish ansestry as that is how most innate casters of the outer planes have it work

calm crest
#

Innate magic stems from force of personality.

jagged apex
#

that too

storm dagger
jagged apex
#

as well as more broadly willpower one could argue

calm crest
#

If your own self is your source of magic, the stronger your sense of self, the stronger your magic.

storm dagger
#

From checking Najara is the primary Yuan-Ti Kingdom in the Forgotten Realms, and is an offical recocngized one.

marsh glacier
#

is it true that only like 300-400 moonblades exist?

drowsy wraith
#

What are the hells/abyss like in Eberron? Like is the blood war even a thing?

timid tendon
#

A good number of fiends though are buried beneath the earth in eldritch demiplanes

The ones who escaped are rakshasas that have plans within plans that span centuries

drowsy wraith
#

Ah yes, now i remember

#

So like elementals bind into things to create the famous eberron vehicles, right? Any lore on what happens when you bind a demon in the same way?

timid tendon
#

no lore iirc

austere crest
#

Working on a plot, involving bhaalist cult:

  • How much Bhaal would be interested in some "random" village to "establish" a cult?
  • Does he care much about people that are sacrificed in his name. As if in would he send his cultists to pursue those that survived/avoided the ritual killing?
  • Would he have some infernal servants?
  • Can the Dead Three work together/assist each other, or do they have mutual hatred amongst each other?
cinder folio
cinder cloud
marsh glacier
cinder cloud
# austere crest Working on a plot, involving bhaalist cult: - How much Bhaal would be interested...
  1. Subjective, not something that can be answered with lore.
  2. He revels in murder and his worshippers commit assassination in his name. What he does in response to a specific action depends on a number of factors. Use your judgement.
  3. He's technically a god (quasi-deity), anyone can worship him, so sure. I can't find any information regarding specific fiends.
  4. Sure, but they're evil so anything is on the table. He is subservient to Bane.

A lot of these questions seem to assume some sort of prescribed behavior. There's no rules for their behavior, they act how you want them to act.

jagged apex
#

his history regarding his godhood does describe several creatures he had as an army, which i presume would do to his evil nature would maybe be fiends, but that is a guess on my part, but technically he historically had Sahaguin in his army at one point and these days they are by default now classified as fiends as far as setting agnostic materials go with the new monster manual

jagged apex
austere crest
jagged apex
#

it is unclear how if at all the events of bg3 translate to published materials, for now the only solid thing that can be said is that it is canon to itself and in it's own continuity and was developed to tie in with decent into avernus, the adventure if i remember correctly taking place in some capacity before the events of bg3

#

specifics are fair game anyways in your own games, you and your table are a continuity onto itself, can be as in line or divergent from the published lore as you want

jagged apex
#

as well as introduce new things or reintroduced creatures who were not in 5e yet at the time

split tapir
#

BG1 and BG2 stories mostly became canon to a point of the Murder in Baldur's Gate adventure based on them. So I think BG3 will be as well in the future. Considering how much Wizards use BG3 material and how popular it became.

unkempt merlin
#

(bg3 has been stated to be referenced in the upcoming FR books)

jagged apex
#

good to know, but we will have to wait and see regarding specific details i imagine given the nature of that story and game

severe basin
#

does cosmic realignment only happen with the outer planes? I've heard of places on the material being dragged into the abyss or the nine hells but is that the same thing as what happens when cosmic realignment happens or is that something different

#

cosmic realignment being when a place in one of the outer planes begins to fit the alignment of another plane more than the plane its currently in and so is moved to the plane whose alignment it fits better

calm crest
#

It’s only the Outer Planes.

#

Pieces of the Prime can be shifted with powerful magic, but this isn’t cosmic realignment.

#

What happens with Ravenloft is more analogous, but the Dark Powers claiming a region isn’t the same as cosmic realignment either.

severe basin
calm crest
#

The main examples we get are the gate towns in the Outlands.

cinder cloud
#

How does one measure an infinite plane?

severe basin
#

Maybe it's not about how big the dissonant area is but how long it's been there

cinder cloud
#

Practically speaking, it's arguably whatever the designers need to do to justify the changes they make to lore. Rather arbitrary, in other words.

severe basin
#

Ah. Plot thing that happens when the plot needs it to happen

cinder cloud
#

You're unlikely to find a planar dissonance threshold anywhere in the lore

severe basin
#

Understandable

#

How do the githzerai avoid cosmic dissonance with all their creations

#

Like how do they not get moved when all the stuff they make is very not chaotic in the plane of Chaos

obsidian gate
#

as far as I understand it, they need to constantly maintain/replace their creations because Limbo keeps dissolving them

#

and their enclaves are pretty small in the grand scheme of things

calm crest
#

It also seems like the “background radiation” of chaos in Limbo can cover up a lot of law, such as the Spawning Stone.

severe basin
#

Hmm

storm dagger
#

How Limbo works is that you can reshape it with your will

#

They also build enclaves in other Chaotic places like the Abyss, Elemental Chaos, and Feywild.

#

We githzerai crave a challenge, so that when Zerthimon returns, he shall find us ready. Thus we traveled to howling Limbo to make our new home.

—Zaerith Menyar-Ag-Gith, githzerai leader

coral ermine
#

Also, does Bhaal's Slayer from BG3 actually a real dnd avatar for him?

#

Just curious

jagged apex
#

yes, only thing new about it is the apperance compared to the god's own version of the form

#

so while the depiction may not be that of published lore, the concept itself comes from the published lore

reef cape
storm dagger
reef cape
#

Except for the ivory skin, it checks just about everything.

jagged apex
#

and as stated seems that when bhaalspawn take the form, it is far more monsterous compared to the one that bhaal himself is known to take

#

though the depiction in the dms guild stuff that was made by wizards of the coast, is named after minsc and boo, it depicts him as a more monsterous one even for the slayer

#

so not sure if they have changed that and just not updated the written lore or what is going on with that

tawny raven
#

Hey does anyone have some fun facts about Githzerai? I’m reading about them in the Monster manual and they have me hooked!

jagged apex
storm dagger
tawny raven
storm dagger
#

So physically they are largely identical outside of individual differences and githyanki and githzerai fashion being different

#

They do have a major biological difference in that Githyanki no longer do live births

#

Githyanki lay eggs asexually with the layers chosen by the Queen, this is something that happened after they moved to the Astral Plane so the Githzerai don’t have it in common with them

#

The Githzerai age and die at a normal pace compared to Githyanki cause of the different environments

#

Githzerai largely don’t much care about other creatures.

#

They are much more focused on themselves and improving, and don’t much care what others are up to. Like they won’t attack if they think creatures coming to them are not a threat. But generally won’t provide a ton of aid to non Githzerai.

#

Githyanki and Mind Flayers are of course exceptions and are quite hated

#

Any other questions?

tawny raven
tawny raven
#

That was unexpected

#

Sorry haha

#

Wow

storm dagger
#

The exact mechanics are not super clear.

#

But the Githyanki Queen selects parents to produce eggs. They go to the material plane to store them everything timed so the clutch hatches at roughly the same time.

#

A rotating staff of Githyanki then comes to the crèches were several classes of Githyanki young are taught their ways

tawny raven
#

So Githyanki grow up on the material plane?

#

Sorry if these are very obvious questions, I’m still new and learning this world

storm dagger
#

Yes Githyanki have to grow up on the material plane cause time doesn’t pass on the Astral. It’s also why the staff teaching them rotates as they don’t want to stay long enough for time to start catching up.

compact patio
#

Hey guys, I got something I was wondering: how do you become a cleric according to lore? Like, what do you have to do to set yourself apart from other worshippers and be granted spells?

feral lintel
#

Faith or the blessing of a god

outer locust
storm dagger
#

Pretty much you have enough Faith that the object of your worship rewards you for it

#

Generally expecting you to spread their teachings and such as well but not always

compact patio
#

Ic, so suppose the line for how much faith you need varies

outer locust
#

that would depend on which being is blessing you as a cleric

#

mystra might have different requirements for her clerics than say Tyr would

compact patio
#

Ic, ty

#

Another kinda random question: why are so many monsters obsessed with money and valuables? Like what are they gonna do with it?

outer locust
compact patio
#

Hmm ig it isn't that many

cinder cloud
# compact patio Hey guys, I got something I was wondering: how do you become a cleric according ...

Lots of good answers here, but ultimately it depends on the setting. Clerics in the Forgotten Realms are chosen by their gods and granted power in doing so. Clerics in Dragonlance are driven by faith and service, and in exchange they receive power from the deity. On Athas in the Dark Sun setting, clerics gain their power from elemental sources and not a deity. The general idea is that there is a higher power or ideal that grants the power, but the specifics vary from setting to setting.

crude blaze
#

Then you’ve got clerics in Eberron, where the gods aren’t even really confirmed to exist

compact patio
#

I guess more what I was asking was what you had to do in order to impress your god enough to set yourself apart from the rank and file worshippers, but I suppose that varies wildly by deity

cinder cloud
#

Also depends on the setting.

outer locust
#

not all clerics necessarily even need to be worshippers

serene crater
#

quick question, but asides from the Queen of Chaos, are there any other Elder Evils deeply associated with the ocean?

molten merlin
pallid flower
#

Many can be agents or champions of the gods, or happen to have a natural affinity

molten merlin
# pallid flower Many can be agents or champions of the gods, or happen to have a natural affinit...

Clerics draw power from the realms of the gods and harness it to work miracles. Blessed by a deity, a pantheon, or another immortal entity, a Cleric can reach out to the divine magic of the Outer Planes—where gods dwell—and channel it to bolster people and battle foes.

Yeah, I guess the gist of it is "divine gift". I suppose gods can do plenty, sometimes on a whim, so they could, theoretically, just willing gift this power to someone who doesn't worship but may simply act to their benefit.

molten merlin
# compact patio I guess more what I was asking was what you had to do in order to impress your g...

Aside from, "It varies," it would need to be some deed of significant enough value to the god. After all, different gods aren't equally responsive. Vhaeraun, for example, seems to frequently answer prayers.

You could be faithful and never even see an increase in power simply because you just don't stand out enough/lack any extraordinary quality in the eyes of your deity. Regardless, I find many clerics in campaigns please their god well enough because the objective they have in the party is often part of their divine task given by the temple. Like, "I've been tasked by Shar to eliminate XYZ and do homage to her by spilling XYZ's blood in ritual sacrifice on Selûne's own altar. Thus, she is pleased with my efforts and I've grown stronger."

sharp owl
rigid latch
#

Where things get seriously interesting is when they make the god they are a cleric of. 😳 (i’m referring to the Kua-Toa)

cinder cloud
outer locust
crude blaze
#

That’s not at all a hard requirement

molten merlin
#

Well, yeah, I followed up with that some messages after.

crude blaze
#

While many clerics get their powers directly from gods (as stated before, mostly dependent on setting), many don’t need gods at all.

feral lintel
#

Some of them just get it through Faith in the domain itself rather than in a god

storm dagger
#

I am reminded of the mercenary sorta Cleric from the Fallbacks novels.

#

He does direct one to one favours for various gods in exchange for spells.

#

Baldric shook his head. “No, I told you, I’m a non-traditionalist. We just have an agreement where I tutor some of his younger clergy a few times a year, and in exchange, he gives me power over the undead.” “All right,” Anson said slowly, “but what does that have to do with this ship and why we’re here?” “I’m getting to that.” Baldric was whispering now as he approached the door. “Anyway, a couple of these young hotheads decided it was time for their rebellious phase, so they defaced a local shrine to Sune, covered it with symbols of the cult of the Dead Three—Bhaal, Bane, and Myrkul—just to be shits.” “You’re telling me this is about Moradin, plus the goddess of beauty, and the gods of murder, tyranny, and death?” Anson whispered back. “Are there always this many deities involved in your life?” Baldric rolled his eyes. “You have no idea. So, Moradin got a little huffy and was of the opinion that I wasn’t upholding my end of the bargain by keeping the dwarven youths out of trouble. I promised to set things right, and at the same time, since Sune was now involved, I figured it couldn’t hurt to appeal to her rather passionate nature and offer to make the youths pay for their crimes by forging some elegant weapons for the defense of her shrines. In exchange, I’d get a death ward to use on a job that I was planning for—”

#

“You didn’t expect them to actually be working with the cultists?” Anson asked. “Nope,” Baldric said with a chuckle. “Didn’t think they’d be smart enough to lay a trap for us either. Oh, this is too good. I’m going to parlay this into some sweet spirit guardians from Tyr. Just watch me.”

eager bay
#

I was just thinking do beholders have any sort of family? Are there any beholders that show affectation to other beholders ? I am kinda new sorry of this is an obvious question.

unkempt merlin
#

Typically, beholders intensely dislike other beholders

#

They generally reproduce via accidently dreaming another beholder into existence

feral lintel
#

intensely dislike is definitely one way to put it

storm dagger
#

Beholder Hives are the exception

#

But the Beholders in Hive are all basically identical and view each other as extensions of the same being

feral lintel
#

So basically, clones?

eager bay
#

Are they ever lies to work with any group ? I know they love to horde gold or magic
items are they known to trade or anything like that ?

#

Like not with other beholders but other species

feral lintel
#

Beholders can have minions yes

#

Thats what Xanathar does

cinder cloud
eager bay
eager bay
feral lintel
#

because it typically is

eager bay
#

Ok so there is no in lore reason like there was no event and just destroyed the DND universe or anything. It’s just done that way for no real reason

feral lintel
#

The books are typically written in first hand accounts from a character in game

cinder cloud
#

... keeping articles in the scope of an established "present day" would be both time-consuming and mostly irrelevant. For example, a town like Zhentil Keep may be thriving in one year, then destroyed, then rebuilt, and so on, so changing from present tense to past tense and back to present tense would be very difficult. A character may be alive in a sourcebook, and written about in present tense, but then slain in a novel, so readers may find the present-tense article confusing.

#

there's more on the page of course, but that's an example of why

eager bay
feral lintel
#

when was Vi introduced?

#

Like the Gnome artificer from Eberron

pallid flower
#

Looking at the wiki, from Rising From the Last War

feral lintel
#

Oh, so relatively new

fervent ridge
#

Has there ever been an instance where a patron became a diety? If so did their warlocks become paladins or clerics?

outer locust
fallow leaf
#

Clerics usually revere and devote themselves from deities. Warlocks usually do it for something in return. If the patron is aware of their existence at all

outer locust
#

clerics don't also need to worship deities at all 😅 just some sort of immortal being with divine powers

#

they don't even technically need to worship - just be blessed by

fallow leaf
#

I think being a cleric and gaining cleric magic takes actual work to appease and be noticed by a deity

reef cape
outer locust
sharp osprey
#

Hey, not sure if this is the appropriate chat to ask this, but:
What (if anything) makes the shadowfell interesting?

sharp owl
#

I'm not sure this is the right channel for that question, #dnd-discussion might be a better place as it's not really related directly to lore

coral ermine
#

So I’m playing a kuotoan god in the campaign I’m in made by my uncle, how powerful have KuoToan gods become? Though this is an original setting.

feral lintel
#

Ask your DM

#

this isnt something covered by the rules or the official lore

coral ermine
#

Though, canonically isn’t schlobilop a Kuro toan god in The Sword Coast.

feral lintel
#

Again, ask your DM

#

Discuss WotC-published game settings, and the events and characters that shaped them. Wherever possible, please indicate which setting you're discussing: [Forgotten Realms]/[FR], [Eberron], [Dragonlance], etc.

  • To discuss your own game world, see ⁠dm-world-building.
  • To discuss specific adventures, see ⁠adventures-spoilers.
  • To share what happened in your own games, see ⁠tales-from-the-table.
coral ermine
#

Well in FR isn’t a Kuo Toan god a greater or lesser deity, I’m talking about the shrimp person, Schlopidop.

jagged apex
heady hare
#

Who named that diety? Lol

feral lintel
#

the kuo toa

cinder cloud
#

They have fish lips, pronunciation is not their strong suit

reef cape
#

Or perhaps we are the ones who cannot pronounce correctly due to our ape lips.

cinder cloud
#

Oh I'm sure they would correct me if I tried

severe basin
#

Uh, what setting?

calm crest
#

Many of the most powerful mages have Clones and/or Contingencies on standby, so having your body be around those you don’t trust isn’t that risky.

eager bay
#

BG 3 is canon right ?

unkempt merlin
#

The easy answer is "sort of"

It will apparently be referenced in an upcoming book however the extent of the events that will be referenced is currently unknown

eager bay
#

Ok cool So i guess a better question is how lore friendly is the game ? like the Githyanki I have never heard of them before BG3 were they a race made for the game or are they new ?

unkempt merlin
#

Basically everything in the game pulls from lore that has existed before

#

Stuff from both 5e and before 5e

calm crest
#

Githyanki have existed since 1e.

#

Gith were first properly introduced in the Fiend Folio.

fallow leaf
#

Yeah they’re just kinda niche

eager bay
#

ok cool thanks, this game might get me more into DnD maybe try to get back into it, I played a few games but found it hard to get time for us all to play, I hear roll 20 is good for finding people online to play. I would be more into the role play and world of it more than any thing else.

fallow leaf
#

Not usually native to the material plane so they’re not common to see in games

eager bay
#

oh ok I have the 5e book and just dont remember seeing any thing on them and they never came up in the few games I played

storm dagger
jagged apex
#

makes sence, last i checked historically the githyanki have basically been planar raiders of sorts, plus the whole hunting down illithid thing

#

and the new monster manuals' little descriptor thing for them even calls them "Invaders from the Astral Plane" so unless i am misunderstanding something, they still are

storm dagger
#

That’s always been their deal

cinder cloud
#

I mean, yeah, they're still literal aliens from outer space. They're not native to Toril.

feral lintel
#

just reread the erinyes, have they always been fallen angels?

reef cape
#

After a bit of research, I can't seem to find any material that gives them another origin story

storm dagger
#

They have always looked the part

#

I don’t know what source first mentioned them as fallen angels, but it’s no doubt pretty old at this point

reef cape
#

Why was I searching at random? I'm a moron. Erinyes first appeared in 1977's Monster Manual. If I check that one, we'll have our answer.

#

D&D's Erinyes, I mean. The OG Greek Erinyes probably first appeared in Homeric hymns or something akin to that

#

Alright, here we have it aaaand... No mention of them being fallen angel, just of being devils.

#

So it appears that the origin story of them being fallen angels came later.

#

Interestingly, the 1977's monster manual says "They are female but can appear as male". I suppose it means they can disguise themselves?

#

And damn, even the 1991's Monstrous Compendium does not call them fallen Aasimon (as angels were called during those times)

feral lintel
#

The new MM seems to have put a new origin then

reef cape
#

No, they were definitely fallen angels back in 3rd edition, I think. Let me check

jagged apex
#

yeah last i checked them being fallen angels of sorts is nothing new

#

like it was at the very least a prior thing in both 5e and possibly past editions

reef cape
#

Yeah, 3.5's Monster Manual opens its first paragraph on them with "Rumor in the underworld tells that the first erinyes were angels who fell from their lofty heights because of some temptation or misdeed"

#

It is possible that third edition introduced the idea, at least that's the conclusion I'm tempted to reach but one would need to examine material featuring them published between 1991 and 2003 to confirm or deny.

jagged apex
#

if it is a 3e thing, be it 3e or 3.5e, it could simply be one of the differences in continuities between TSR and WoTC much like kobolds becoming more associated with dragons

storm dagger
#

It was probably mentioned in 1e or 2e at some point given their looks

#

There are tons of articles and books in the hells

severe basin
#

It's possible to become an erinyes through promotion though isn't it

storm dagger
#

Yes, but the original Erinyes were fallen

severe basin
#

Is it ever confirmed? Because last I checked 5e just calls that a bunch of rumors

storm dagger
#

It’s been stated in the past

severe basin
#

Ah

#

I would like a quote if you don't mind

#

Like official sources saying that without something like "it's widely believed that"

reef cape
#

It does appear that most publications present it as a theory and rumor rather than straight up unambiguous truth.

#

One would have to check Fiendish Codex II: Tyrants of the Nine Hells to be certain though

severe basin
#

I personally prefer them as always having been devils

#

Just because they look human doesn't mean they need to have once been an angel or something

#

I'll check fiendish codex 2

reef cape
#

And I do not have my copy of it on me, I believe it's in some packs somewhere in my basement.

#

And you will forgive me for not spending an hour searching just to answer this question.

scarlet sigil
#

Thanks to Sir Incubus' direction, here are some quotes from Fiendish Codex II: Tyrants of the Nine Hells

Devils are never promoted to erinyes status, but they can be promoted from it to higher ranks.

Erinyes are the descendants of fallen angels that became corrupt and plummeted into Baator. Some of them fell with Asmodeus; others were corrupted in later eons.

#

Pages 10 and 18 respectively

severe basin
#

Mmm

#

If devils are never promoted to erinyes status

#

One day all the erinyes will die out

scarlet sigil
#

There are young erinyes.

Young erinyes are the only true offspring raised in Baator.

severe basin
#

So erinyes reproduce like humans do?

scarlet sigil
#

This is due to erinyes being capable of becoming pregnant.

reef cape
#

Alright so with all that, and other books I just combed through I think we can safely say the following about the evolution of the Erinyes:

  1. Erinyes were introduced as normal devils in the earliest days of D&D.
  2. 3rd edition introduced the idea of them as being descended from fallen angels as a rumor
  3. It was made "canon" later in 3rd edition
#

We really need a better word than "canon" to discuss those concepts though

storm dagger
#

There are also various source books and articles in 1 and 2e that may have brought up the idea before

reef cape
#

Sadly, the only way to check that would be to... Comb through old editions of the magazines.

feral lintel
#
  1. 24 MM just says theyre fallen angels
reef cape
#

And nobody has got the patience for that.

storm dagger
#

Yeah I checked a 2e but it didn’t really mention anything from my look

#

But it also was a fairly early one

reef cape
#

Still, I think we've got a pretty good picture of the official "main" publications.

severe basin
#

I do not like the lore of them being fallen angels. I think its better as a theory people hold about them while they are still creations of the nine hells. Evil can still create beautiful things, and those beautiful things can be evil. Not everything beautiful in the hells needs to be borrowed from the powers of good

feral lintel
#

I mean, thats the concubi

severe basin
#

The succubi and incubi do not need to be the only example of this

#

Graz'zt is an example of this

feral lintel
#

Also, theyre not exactly pretty in the new lore

crude blaze
#

Tbh i don’t think the goal for erinyes is for them to be beautiful. Especially if you look at the new art

feral lintel
severe basin
feral lintel
#

Which isnt what the new lore is aiming to do

severe basin
#

Yeah the new lore also made the marilith less hot

feral lintel
severe basin
#

They also even made the solar less hot

#

They made everything less hot

reef cape
#

What are you saying? That's the most handsome thing I've ever seen.

feral lintel
reef cape
#

The Erinyes are absolutely gorgeous.

severe basin
#

They even nerfed the balors deatht throes and gave it some force instead of fire to make it less hot

feral lintel
reef cape
#

And since I am not a fiend, my tastes in matters of beauty are completely normal.

feral lintel
#

mhmm

crude blaze
#

Also worth noting their goal was to make fiends look more monstrous. Save for a handful of examples, they’re supposed to look more terrifying than attractive.

severe basin
#

My point here is that I do always like it when evil creates beautiful things

reef cape
#

Terrifying and attractive is the same thing though

severe basin
#

Because like, things don't need to look good and be good aligned
Good things can look scary and evil things can look beautiful

reef cape
#

You can't be attracted to someone who doesn't look like they're going to kill you.

#

Still not a fiend!

crude blaze
#

spray bottles the incubus

severe basin
#

Isn't there some lore somewhere about how graz'zt might have once been a devil

#

Or is that a 4e thing

crude blaze
#

I think that’s a rumored origin, but not confirmed. At least not in 5E.

reef cape
#

There is. There is also lore that calls it a nonsensical rumor spread either by Graz'zt or his enemies so anything goes on that

severe basin
#

That's why I'm asking if it's like explicitly stated in older editions

crude blaze
#

It’s a plot hook presented as potential lore to get people to decide whether that’s true at their table or not

severe basin
#

Yeah that's most 5e lore for you lol

feral lintel
reef cape
#

Nope, not at all.

severe basin
#

He is perfectly sane and very cultured

reef cape
#

I'm gonna go uh... Do a perfectly normal non-fiend thing like...Taking the bus. They don't have the bus in the lower planes, that's D&D lore for you!

severe basin
#

Time to Google if that's true

crude blaze
reef cape
#

It's more of a boat

feral lintel
#

... now i want a fight inside Crokek-toeck

cinder cloud
#

pulls up in my infernal war bus

feral lintel
#

-# no fortnite

#

its interesting to me though that Erinyes really are basically the Furies of Greek mythos

severe basin
#

The Furies aren't evil and aren't hot either

reef cape
#

If you're referring to those, it is more polite to call them Eumenides. Or Kindly Ones.

severe basin
#

True

#

They're kindly and the erinyes are not

feral lintel
#

Tell that to the souls of the Damned in the Fields of Punishment

reef cape
#

Oh no, they're not kindly at all. But you should still call them kindly ones.

severe basin
crude blaze
#

They’re not called the Kindly Ones because they’re kind, they’re called the Kindly Ones to avoid getting on their bad side.

feral lintel
#

Daemons will always be daemons

final bramble
#

Does anyone know any titles of Dendar? I want to do smth for my character with it

calm crest
#

The Night Serpent, off the top of my head.

#

From the FR wiki:

Eater of the World
Mother of the Night Parade
Nidhogg
The Night Serpent
The Serpent Mother

jagged apex
#

yeah, in the forgotten realms, Dendar is the norse entity Nidhogg or at least is referred to by that name by a particular ancient society, is a neat piece of lore that not many at least in my experience tend to be aware of

calm crest
#

Which is not to be confused with the other, Planescape Nidhogg.

#

Who is probably a different entity.

severe basin
#

I believe I've heard word that at one point Nidhogg was a red dragon

fringe terrace
#

Where can I find a list of like, every different type of Orc that has existed in official content? Playable or not

#

Even ones with "problematic" lore, as I will be using my own setting specific lore and will be scrubbing out problematic origins/lore/implications and stuff from them.

outer locust
severe basin
#

All the 5e orc content is in volos guide to monsters

fringe terrace
#

Right, probably should have clarified more

#

Like any different variants of orcs

severe basin
#

By variant, do you mean subraces like the orog

#

Or do you mean like, Claw of luthic, eye of gruumsh

fringe terrace
#

Subraces/Subspecies. I'm making a homebrew setting where Orcs are the predominant species by far, and I want a wide variety of different types of orcs to populate it with.

severe basin
#

I gotchu

#

General information, fourth down

#

Gray Orcs, Mountain Orcs, Neo-Orogs, and Orogs

#

This should be what you're looking for

fringe terrace
#

This is good, and I'll probably implement more too

#

Like the older school versions of orcs with more porcine features

severe basin
#

Hell yeah

fringe terrace
#

I'm gonna have to do a lot of homebrew anyways. This will help a lot though. Thanks.

severe basin
#

No problem

fringe terrace
#

There will be other species in the setting besides orcs and such obviously

#

But Orcs would be by far the majority

calm crest
#

Lots of settings have had different types of orcs. Cerilia had the Orogs in place of them. Spelljammerhad the Scro.

fringe terrace
#

My setting is vaguely inspired by the 5e lore that Orcs came to be when Gruumsh stabbed his blade into the earth in several places and orcs spilled forth from the places that he stabbed. The setting I'm making has one If these spots, called The Wound, in the center of the main landmass the setting is on.

#

Except I'm not using that lore exactly, but that's not stuff for this channel anyways.

jagged apex
#

so already what you said you are operating off of differs from the current history of them in the realms, just thought was worth pointing out in my opinion

#

as the orcs we just know were created by grummsh, we know nothing else of how they came to be, least far as i am aware

leaden umbra
#

Hey i'm wondering about the Gods in Faerun. Am i understanding it correctly that basically anyone regardless of species might worship a god belonging to the Faerunian pantheon whereas non-elves are unlikely to worship Corellon ? Members of the Faerunian pantheon being likely to have portfolios applicable to anyone of any background and therefore...generic or broadly applicable in that sense ?

jagged apex
#

yes, racial gods tend to by mainly worshiped by a particular race, usually cuz the head of the pantheon often has said species/race in their portfolio

fringe terrace
jagged apex
#

to my knowledge no god, except special cases like over deities such as Ao, turn down worship by willing mortal followers

fringe terrace
#

I don't plan on publishing it or anything just using it for my own games and purposes.

jagged apex
fringe terrace
#

Well thanks for clarifying

jagged apex
#

fun thing is technically, depending on the type of orc, they are actually aliens basically

leaden umbra
jagged apex
jagged apex
#

there are different kinds of pantheons in dnd, racial ones is just a single one and one often used in some stories

storm dagger
jagged apex
#

true

timid tendon
#

Survivors of a "righteous" elven campaign of extermination that hid in a planet and nursed a deep sense of vengeance

cinder folio
spare smelt
#

Are they even in the forgotten realms?

jagged apex
snow laurel
#

I know that official lore on dragonborn is scant, but I'm working on a plotline for a PC. Is there any lore in any setting of a dragonborn being a reincarnation of a dragon, or a dragon somehow being turned into/becoming a dragonborn without knowing?

#

(Their character concept is that the guy claims to be the reincarnation of a powerful dragon and most people treat it as bunk... but I wanna try and figure out a way for them to potentially be right for high level questing)

#

Alternatively; is there any way a dragonborn PC can get in on some of the "dragonsight" stuff enumerated in Fizban's?

calm crest
#

Many dragons can take on a humanoid form. There are several different effects that can remove, conceal, or alter memories.

#

Dragonborn are a wholly distinct species from dragons. Most don’t even like dragons, seeing them as tyrants.

snow laurel
calm crest
#

I believe that was part of the generic dragonborn lore from when the species was introduced in 4e. Other settings may have more specifics.

#

Given that 4e retconned the drey of Athas to be dragonborn, some settings have very different takes on them.

storm dagger
#

There are lots of takes and origins

calm crest
#

Very hypothetically, a dragon could be subjected to a Nystul’s Magic Aura, then killed and Reïncarnated magically as a dragonborn, but that’s more of a mechanics thing than a lore one. Lore-wise, dragons don’t reïncarnate dragonborn by any normal capacity.

#

A dragon that takes the form of a dragonborn magically and is somehow compelled to forget or cursed to be trapped in that form is more plausible.

#

It also seems like dragons have a capacity to grant others a very limited version of Dragonsight, allowing that favored mortal to contact other echoes of the dragon.

outer locust
calm crest
#

It wasn’t in 2014. It very explicitly works that way in 2024.

#

But again, more mechanics than lore.

snow laurel
#

that'd be a good throughline for this pc

storm dagger
#

I think that may be a Fizbans thing

jagged apex
# snow laurel Isn't that just a FR thing?

in the setting agnostic lore, the are still very much a seperate species from dragons, with the broadest and barest if any potential connections, to quote the 2024 phb lore description, which again is setting agnostic "The ancestors of dragonborn hatched from the eggs of chromatic and metallic dragons. One story holds that these eggs were blessed by the dragon gods Bahamut and Tiamat, who wanted to populate the multiverse with people created in their image. Another story claims that dragons created the first dragonborn without the gods’ blessings. Whatever their origin, dragonborn have made homes for themselves on the Material Plane." end quote

snow laurel
#

I don't recall seeing it in fizban's

calm crest
#

It’s a Draconic Gift—Echo of Dragonsight.

jagged apex
#

also a key thing that is subtle but clearly maintains the fact that the relation between dragonborn and dragon kind is distant if any, is the fact that the dragonborn even in 2024 are still considered humanoids rather than dragons, unlike kobolds and half dragons

snow laurel
#

the angle we're going for this character is "maybe mentally ill, maybe magically gifted". I believe lore says that "alchemical draughts" can activate dragonsight in dragons, so the angle this player seems to want is "my guy drank a potion intended for a dragon and had a really bad trip, and is convinced the visions he sees are alternate versions of himself as a dragon on different planets"

#

and I'm like "ok but what if he's right"

jagged apex
#

what is worth pointing out you may wish to take inspiration from is that, to my knowledge in the forgotten realms the effects of the spellplague do to magic going wilder than ever before, caused some dragons to become forcefully trapped in the forms of humanoids, though i can not find where this is mentioned but i recall hearing it in a lore video about the spellplague so take it with a grain of salt

snow laurel
#

wait wait what I've got another angle

jagged apex
#

well this is for discussion on what is in published materials, if you wanna worshop or brainstorm your own stories especially for your own table, i'd suggest going to #dm-world-building

snow laurel
#

Gem dragons often get their souls trapped in draconic shards

jagged apex
#

eh, not exactly

#

draconic shards are more so a form of undeath seemingly unique to these psionically natured dragons

snow laurel
#

I could have this guy get limited dragonsight then seek out a draconic shard and eat the soul

#

honestly this sounds a bit hexblade adjacent

jagged apex
#

that does not make sense, and again, this sounds like a discussion more so for #dm-world-building than the channel about what is in published lore

feral lintel
jagged apex
#

either way, seems like it is definitely not one for the topics this channel is ment for

outer locust
#

Why is it an owlbear is half owl half bear but a bugbear is a big ahh goblin?

calm crest
#

Because a “bugbear” is term for a faerie boogeyman. Hence the association with a stealthy fey kidnapper.

cinder cloud
jagged apex
#

yeah not everything in dnd is exactly what it's name sounds like, for example the bullete is known as the land shark, but is not at all shark like, it basically fills a similar niche that warranted the nickname, at least in the way sharks are sort of stereotyped as these hungry predatory killers

#

and some things, especially with fey, are literally based off things in real world folklore or at the very least borrow the name from such creatures

lapis slate
#

Ok so I heard theres an Animal Lord for every animal right? Is there a Human animal lord?

calm crest
#

No. Animal Lords are reserved to non-humanoid beasts.

#

D&D doesn't emulate real-world biology.

timid tendon
# snow laurel Isn't that just a FR thing?

FR dragonborn (the ones from Abeir, the sister planet of Toril, the main setting) yes. They lived in a death world with unclear origins and were enslaved by dragon-tyrants until they emancipated themselves. FR dragonborn are very well-detailed lore wise compared to how little the bland 5e species descriptors are imo

snow laurel
#

Honestly one of my biggest conceptual ideas with dragonborn is there is so much dragon lore out there but you're told "no don't apply it to dragonborn, they're totally different"

#

so then you're like "ok so what lore do dragonborn have" and it's 🤷‍♂️

timid tendon
#

FR dragonborn lived in a world without gods and are culturally skeptical of worship, valuing family and clan ties because thats how they survived the harsh world

calm crest
#

That's 4e lore for ya.

snow laurel
#

ok but it's been what 17 years since 4e

timid tendon
#

Personally i am critical of 5e's dragon lore, esp..the stuff about the first world lol

snow laurel
#

like if I wanna play an elf or even a tiefling I can vaguely know what to expect regardless if I'm playing FR or Eberron or a generic homebrew world

snow laurel
calm crest
#

As opposed to 50+ years of dragon lore. 4e is very lore light, and 5e has strived to have a setting neutral focus, leaving a lot of lore to DMs.

snow laurel
#

it's such a cool concept and it's rueful it's so hard to integrate it into a PC, according to the lore

calm crest
#

So there was a lot more lore in those first 33 years than the past 17.

timid tendon
#

Mostly its how it retcons the lore of Sardior the great gem dragon god and how it frames the often tyrannical chromatic dragon goddess tiamat as some misunderstood hero and her children as justified in trying to conquer and enslave "lesser mortals"

crude blaze
#

I love the First World lore

timid tendon
crude blaze
#

Especially since it's less written lore and more draconic mythology

snow laurel
#

So as someone who got into D&D around the tail end of 2e/early 3e (Die Vecna Die era), I'm fine with the Sardior retcons since I have never ever met a player or DM who cared much about gem dragon lore, and I don't know what you mean by saying they're making tiamat misunderstood

timid tendon
#

Nentir Vale lore about the Arkhosa dragonborn empire and its clashes with the Bael Turath tiefling empire is pretty decently detailed

crude blaze
#

I don't think the First World mythology makes Tiamat misunderstood, it does make her more complex of a character tho

timid tendon
#

More so than the vague gesturing towards clans and families the PHB does to dragonborn

crude blaze
#

Because it paints her as someone who stood up to defend what she and Bahamut created

#

But again, that's why it's presented as mythology. Some believe that she was just being a defender, while others continue to see her as a mad tyrant.

calm crest
# timid tendon I disagree that 4e is lore light

Really? It simplified and redacted nearly everything and then almost entirely got retconned away. It introduced all the same basic options into every setting, steamrolling over more natural picks that already exist in canon. While it very much does have lore, it is no where near as rich as 2e, 3e, or BECMI/RC.

timid tendon
#

I see the mythology more as self-justification for dragons to do cruel dragon things imo

"The world belongs to us, the most powerful beings, and we are justified in taking your lands and enslaving you because its the service retaking the first world"

crude blaze
#

Which is why it works in that context

timid tendon
#

Which is what the Purple Dragon Knight UA is doing

crude blaze
#

A dragon who believes in the First World mythology is going to operate under the assumption that the Material Plane was taken from them, their rightful creators and rulers.

calm crest
#

My point was that 5e is also lore light.

crude blaze
#

Some might accept their fate and learn to coexist, others might not accept their fate and want to take it back.

timid tendon
#

Personally im not a fan of some 4e shakeups (Eilistraee was character assassinated for example) but i wasnt opposed to a good chunk of them

#

Anyhow @snow laurel , 3.5e dragonborn were humanoids who were reborn into eggs by bahamut (with draconids being tiamat's equivalent)

If you want to go with that angle instead of FR's emancipated agnostic dragonhunter clans you can

jagged apex
jagged apex
#

as bahamut would only do this to willing followers rather than have them be that way from birth like his sister did in the world of krynn when they made the draconians

jagged apex
#

bahamut, not wanting to force dedication to him on his forces transformed these beings to make the Ux Bahamuti rather than making them from birth to be his soldiers, thus why the Rite of Rebirth exists, it was how bahamut went about making those willing into Ux Bahamuti https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Rite_of_Rebirth

timid tendon
#

Of course, nothing stops an Abeir-descent dragonborn from being a devotee of Bahamut and Tiamat, being counterculture to your own homeland's norms is like a common àdventurer story beat

#

And while FR dragonborn have their culture defined in detail, their physical origins (did the dragon-tyrants create them in Abeir? Did the primordials? Were they descended from humanoids who turned into dragonfolk, Etc) is ambiguous enough so you could slot in dragonsight or whatnot in their lineage.

jagged apex
#

well the reason they are distinguished is because they are entirely seperate, though i have heard the idea that they are connected in some unknown way, but for the most part the Ux Bahamuti and the true proper race of dragonborn are very different, and only recently since coming to toril have some started to give the idea of things such as a good dragon god or even just good natured dragons the benefit of the doubt, in regards to the true race from 4e onwards their origin was always uncertain and surrounded in myths and rumors without anything concrete be it in universe or otherwise, one popluar believe that some dragonborn themselves believe is they were born from the drops of Io's blood that feel when he was sundered in two, the same that in other myths lead to the birth of tiamat and bahamut from those two halves

timid tendon
#

Thats true

And yea only recently have Abeiran dragonborn started coming around towards good dragons and/or gods

The dragonborn nation of Tymanther owes its continued existence in Faerun to the Untheric god Enlil, who now serves as their patron (they framed their patronage of Enlil as a mercenary contract out of pride, its kind of funny)

jagged apex
#

though hard to entertain the idea when you are a culture that values tradition and has hundreds of years of historical documents basically proving, at least from back when they were on Abeir, that all true dragons, regardless of color or type are nothing more than terrible tyrants, would not be surprised if some of the more elderly members of their communities still believe the world they are on is Abeir, just that what ever moved their city changed it

#

probably for the best that in their society matters of religion are mostly a private thing, something to be talked about behind the closed doors of your home rather than out in public, least from what i am aware

timid tendon
#

Yeah religion is/was a personal private thing to Tymantheri dragonborn, the navigation Enlil and his dragonborn Chosen did to gain a modicum of acceptance was an uphill battle (a war with the newly returned Unther and Gilgeam did push the ruling council to be more open to allies though at least)

hardy wave
#

Alright this maybe a little odd to ask but are the penguins on the Remorhaz page/art the first appearance of penguins in DnD?

unkempt merlin
#

No

crude sparrow
#

Would it be odd to make Mysteria(Is that the current magic god?) a kinda spider diety, with their connection to the weave and all? FR

jagged apex
#

she has no relation to spiders in any way, also the current incarnation is named mystra

#

spiders in the realms are more lolth's thing, even being a part of her portfolio

#

besides, the weave has nothing to do with spiders either, weave is more of a verb that happens to be able to be used to the description of of a spider making their web

jagged apex
storm dagger
#

Lolth did try and Hijack the Weave at one point as the Demon Weave but was foiled.

jagged apex
#

never heard of that, i know shar tried to hijack it and she had some dealings with lolth's son for drow to access the magic associated with the shadow weave, but nothing about a demon weave

feral lintel
#

are there any monstes that resemble the Japanese Baku, or dream eater tapir?

jagged apex
calm crest
#

The baku, in fact.

feral lintel
#

Oh?

#

interesting

calm crest
feral lintel
#

woah, thats terrifying

calm crest
feral lintel
#

nice!
-# now to make a statblock

jagged apex
#

was about to link that, the Shirokinukatsukami is the one you want if you want the more typical role of the baku in our world's mytholgy

#

at least the one from japanese mythology specifically

feral lintel
#

Hm hmm, was just looking for a monster that ate dreams, but this works perfectly

jagged apex
#

well the Shirokinukatsumkami is literally known as a "Dream eater"

#

"Eaters of Dreams" technically and are basically good natured, they are sort of the polar opposite in a way to the feyr at least in away you could see them as naturally opposed by their natures https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Feyr

#

or maybe that is just me, but i feel at least vaguely they are similar

full knoll
#

Any source that has the novels organized by chronological order?

sterile breach
cinder cloud
#

There are other novels than the FR ones, could you be more specific?

outer locust
#

So there's just one astral plane that connects to every material plane right?

scarlet sigil
#

Mhm, and also all outer planes

outer locust
#

so theoretically you could bump into a wizard from oerth up in there if you were from Faerun right? or find some items from any other plane of existence in that place

scarlet sigil
#

sure

outer locust
#

theoretically even stuff from earth - earth earth - would be there too?

scarlet sigil
#

Yes. There is this one anecdote about foxes not actually being native to Faerun, having been brought there from actual Earth.

outer locust
#

I just wanted to go through that with someone else to make sure I understood - thinking of making a character who has a trinket from earth

cinder cloud
scarlet sigil
grim siren
#

It is also rumored the the Mulhorandi people where from earth and that is why they are so Egyptian coded. Because they are just ancient Egyptians.

jagged apex
jagged apex
jagged apex
calm crest
#

The Heroes of the Realm were originally a group of friends from Earth who rode on a Dungeons & Dragons and ended up on a relatively obscure world of the Prime Material Plane, but have visited other worlds as well.

jagged apex
#

yeah and in more recent published materials are even mentioned and others who were not seen in the show are implied to have also succumb to the same fate, one even being named and introduced in one of the dnd adventures "Uni and the Hunt for the Lost Horn" basically bringing the animated series from way back in the day and many elements of it or versions of them into published continuity of 5e

fathom rapids
#

What setting is Mordenkainen from? I thought they were from Greyhawk, but I'm also seeing some sources say Forgotten Realms. Do they travel between planes?

feral lintel
#

iirc, hes from Greyhawk

#

but from the history section, he goes to Waterdeep with his friends when he doesnt want to be recognized

#

Although Mordenkainen resided primarily on Oerth, by at least the Year of the Shield, 1367 DR, his spells were not uncommon among spellbooks in Faerûn.[4] He often traveled to Waterdeep with his friends for revelry in a city where he would not be recognized

jagged apex
#

he much like tasha does indeed travel the planes

#

and is known to have connections, friendship for lack of a better term, with Elminster, who is from the forgotten realms

calm crest
#

I believe all of the mages with titular spells (in 5e and 1e at least) are Oerthic.

feral lintel
#

Yeah, the Circle of 8

#

plus Tasha

calm crest
#

Even if Otto is now inexplicably a dwarven bard, rather than a human mage, I assume he’s still a member of the Circle.

jagged apex
#

reasonable, as if it is not directly contradicted, much of past incarnations can be assumed true, like i bet tasha still much to mordenkainen's disdain still beats him at chess

feral lintel
#

She was beating him pretty hard in that art in TCoE

calm crest
#

And presumably still has a daughter named Drelnza.

feral lintel
#

Did they just retcon Otto to be a dwarf bard, or did something happen to him like Bigby?

calm crest
#

Straight retcon.

feral lintel
#

interesting

calm crest
#

He always had music-themed spells and was fairly stout for a human, but that change was established in one of the 2024 PHB illustrations.

#

I suppose the rule is that all of Tasha’s children’s names must have a Z and exactly two vowels.

calm crest
jagged apex
#

do they straight up describe him as being a dwarf? cuz could just be like you said prior where he was just fairly stout, maybe he is just a stout and short human, unless they out right call him a dwarf

#

cuz far as i know was just a picture, for the gate spell we got regarding any identification of his appearance

calm crest
#

PHB’24 277: “Otto the Bard” in the caption for Gate.

DMG’24 360: “Otto (AW-toe) is an affable dwarf Bard with a taste for fine food, good music, and expensively tailored clothes. His sociable and outgoing personality masks the fact that he's also a member of the Circle of Eight (see chapter 5) and committed to the goals of that organization. He is well-known across the multiverse for his creation of the Otto's Irresistible Dance spell.” in the lore glossary.

jagged apex
#

ah, could not remember off the top of my head

calm crest
#

I’d forgotten that they explicitly stated him to be a member of the Circle, too.

#

He was a human mage with the vague appearance of a dwarf and similar interests to a bard, so I guess they just decided that no one would notice if he became a dwarven bard.

#

I don’t necessarily have a problem with it, it’s just odd how unceremonious of a retcon it is when Bigby at least had an explanation for suddenly being a gnome.

jagged apex
#

given the different editions are in ways more or less separate continuities, i'd chalk it up to randomness of the multiverse and a new version being made, but that is technically more head canon but is best explanation i can think of, like could have happened back when the multiverse was reworked after vecna's invasion back in 2e and we only just know are learning of it

feral lintel
#

Didnt he die with Bigby a while back anyway?

calm crest
#

Not as far as I know?

#

The present year of Oerth also got reset in 5e’24.

#

DMG’24 143: “The year is 576 CY (Common Year).”

#

Meaning Otto is currently 38 years old.

#

So interestingly while a ton has changed in the Forgotten Realms, apparently everything chronologically after 1e has been retconned away in Greyhawk.

#

And given the state of Sigil in SatO, it is hard to tell if the events of Die, Vecna, Die! are still part of the continuity, as both Oerth and Sigil appear to be in an era prior to those events.

#

Sigil is definitely post-Faction War, as Duke Rowan appears to have been already ousted, but all of the Factions are back in Sigil, even if some are slightly altered.

jagged apex
#

i feel it still is part of the events for sigil, else i don't see why that one casino would have the entertainment it does, if you know you know, not gunna specify to avoid doing into #1029833015423143957

#

cuz to my knowledge it would not make sense unless the events of die, vecna, die occured in some capacity

calm crest
#

It would be unusual if Die, Vecna, Die! hadn’t occurred, but not impossible. As currently presented, Oerth is somehow 15 years prior to the events of DVD! again while the Forgotten Realms are over a century past it.

jagged apex
#

true but as a deity vecna would like other gods not be bound by linear time, and who knows how the time would have flowed in the domains of dread

jagged apex
calm crest
#

The module starts on Oerth, and multiple sources confirm that Vecna escaped Raveloft in 591 CY.

#

Not to mention Vecna being from Oerth and tied into multiple major events, such as killing the Circle of Eight in Vecna Lives, the prequel to the module.

jagged apex
#

could be that simply one was written before they made the choice final to set a specific time in greyhawk when using it in the new dmg as an example

#

so if it is gunna line up, those details still have to get ironed out and make it to publishing before becoming official, is my guess

calm crest
#

It’s definitely confusing. Grated, Fortune’s Wheel was pre-DMG’24, so who knows where anything is at currently, as most of the 2024 modules are pretty neutral so far. The para-elemental cult is interesting as it takes place years before the proper Cult of Elemental Evil.

jagged apex
#

yeah, given how they were trying to make sure the new books were still compatible with prior 5e content, could simply be a detail that was overlooked given the amount of things they were working on, not everything is done perfectly

timber nova
#

Can someone explain the hierarchy of gods?

jagged apex
#

gunna have to elaborate, as there is a few ways that can be answered

proud urchin
#

BOY'S!!!!!

jagged apex
#

in more recent editions the main categories have been simplified, but technically does not present anything that makes the info of the divine ranks not able to still be true so can still be considered if you want

proud urchin
#

Are we still looking for a world full of magic and dragons?

timber nova
#

Yeah, god stuff is something thats always a little out there for me

jagged apex
#

anti..official i think you may be in the wrong channel as neither of your messages are lore based so far

timber nova
#

For the record im creating my own setting

jagged apex
timber nova
#

Okay

jagged apex
#

so i can at best suggest that far as i know the forgotten realms ranks i linked earlier are the best i can answer without deviating and is at least a good frame of refference you can easily use

#

though the new dmg also offers useful tips and info for such subjects so if you have that book definitely remember to use it as the resource it is ment to be

#

it is setting agnostic, the newer 2024 one, meaning any lore in it is seperate from any specific existing setting, making it perfect for if you wanna build your setting to fit in the wider dnd multiverse

molten merlin
#

In "Hold Back the Dead", it mentions the Forgotten Realms, and that's where my campaign is taking place. However, beyond "Western Heartlands", I'd like to give my players a clearer answer of where Ironspine Keep would be. Anyone have any ideas?

Ssazz Tam wants to amass an army and station them at Ironspine Keep, so he's dispatched a legion with the Western Heartlands in mind.

Thay is very far to the east. My hypothesis thus far is that the legion would sail through the Sea of Fallen Stars, and march west, with the keep being somewhere along the River Chionthar.

sharp owl
#

There is no clearer answer, Ironspine Keep was made for the Hold Back the Dead adventure and literally the only locational inform is what's presented in the adventure

cinder cloud
cerulean yarrow
#

Thank you kindly!

molten merlin
vital cloudBOT
#
No pings, please :pray:

If you see someone with “No Pings” in their name, please don’t @ that user. If you Reply to them, please turn the alert @OFF, and if you forget, a simple apology is appreciated. Thank you!

sharp owl
eager bay
#

Are the great old ones as strong or stronger than gods?

reef cape
#

By "great old ones", I assume you refer to the warlock patrons?

cinder cloud
#

Yep, depends entirely on the entity.

feral lintel
#

depends on the individual GOO and gods

severe basin
#

Great Old ones include but are not limited to elder evils, most elder evils are not necessarily stronger than gods but are more effective at defeating them than other beings

#

Not all great old one patrons are elder evils but a lot of them are

compact patio
#

Hey guys, I don't know if it's better to ask in here or in character creation, but I have a question for someone versed in Eberron lore. One of my friends wants to run a 5e campaign in Eberron, not soon or anything, he's got a game of mothership he's still playing so probably in a few months, but anyway, I wanted to start on my character now.
He's going to be a human drakewarden ranger, and basically whay I wanted to ask is: where in Eberron might a conclave of Drakewardens live? If a place like that doesn't canonically exist (I'm assuming not bc fizban's was well after Eberron was created), are there any places where humanoids live in harmony with dragons?

eager bay
#

Cause the GOO subclass uses the word elder gods

eager bay
severe basin
#

I do not believe the term elder gods is ever used to describe anything in dnd
We have Primordials, Elder Evils, lesser and greater deities, but I'm pretty sure Elder god isn't a term that is used

eager bay
severe basin
#

Indeed but I'm saying that most official lore does not

#

We cannot really give you a perfect answer to your question since the great old one patron includes a lot of different beings, but generally, the beings you would draw power from as a great old one Warlock are indeed comparable to the beings your cleric friend would draw power from, or often times stronger

cinder cloud
severe basin
#

Yeah it's kinda like asking if demons are stronger than angels
Of course Demogorgon is stronger than a Solar, a Molydeus is comparable to a Solar, but a dretch or a Manes cannot compare to a Deva
They vary in strength a lot

reef cape
#

It also depends on the deity. Some gods just are not fighters.

#

Labellas, for example, in his appearances in the Time of Troubles, was notable for being rather clueless around fighting.

jagged apex
#

many great old ones are by their nature alien or otherwise a complete anomaly compared to gods

#

as some who were even briefly gods, are great old ones technically, such as the infamous karsus

severe basin
#

Great old one doesn't even refer just to the elder evils it's such a massively broad category

jagged apex
#

he technically in 5e would qualify as a great old one patron

severe basin
#

You're so right actually, some gods literally are great old ones and elder evils too

reef cape
#

Indeed, though in lore the term used for Karsus-that-was is a "vestige".

#

Vestiges are what remains when an entity that is, in theory, beyond death dies.

#

They are valid warlock patrons.

severe basin
reef cape
#

So, "great old one" is a broad category. Dendar is a great old one, an elder evil, a primordial, a god(dess?) but not a vestige.

jagged apex
#

to quote the newest version of the great old one it describes their patrons as thus "..an unspeakable being from the Far Realm or an elder god—a being such as Tharizdun, the Chained God; Zargon, the Returner; Hadar, the Dark Hunger; or Great Cthulhu. Or you might invoke several entities without yoking yourself to one. The motives of these beings are incomprehensible, and the Great Old One might be indifferent to your existence. But the secrets you’ve learned nevertheless allow you to draw strange magic from it."

#

the main unifying factor is these are powerful beings that are beyond conventional comprehention and often are more likely to drive mortals mad from a mere interaction

severe basin
reef cape
#

I think we can accurately describe "great old ones" as creatures that are foreign and alien in thought processes. Therefore, many different types of creatures can count as great old ones.

severe basin
#

Mmm, this could mean that even a Beholder may fall into that category

jagged apex
#

especially when the most iconic exampels are Cthulhu and Tharizdun

severe basin
#

No matter how weak and young the beholder may be

reef cape
#

In theory a "normal" Beholder doesn't really reach the level of foreigness required, but perhaps some elder Beholder could.

jagged apex
#

Tharizdun is literally a powerful god/god like being that was driven to madness by lookin into the far realm, you know the sort of "realm" around the dnd multiverse that is basically the complete opposite of the dnd multiverse, ie no sort of order or logic as we conventionally understand it

severe basin