#dnd-lore

1 messages · Page 58 of 1

fluid atlas
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It is also true that in the making of potions and items, perhaps more than in any other aspect of sorcery, there are many ways to achieve a desired end: One mage’s wand of magic missiles may be made in a very different way than the same item made by another sorcerer, even though this is a relatively simple, straightforward item
From Volo's Guide to All Things Magical, written by Ed Greenwood in 1996.

sharp owl
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The process is unique per item, enchantment, and enchanter/artificer

surreal charm
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Hmm, okay. A more direct question is needed. I have a character who is an artificer/armorer. Their suit of Arcane Armor can be a conduit for their spell-casting focus as per PHB. Is it lore-friendly to have their spells slotted into their armor-like Runes where pushing mana through the rune, like within a glove, could cast the spell? For flavor.

sharp owl
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Yes? No? Maybe?

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Like I said, there are no prescriptive rules in lore for it

surreal charm
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Very well, thank you both for your answers on that subject.

sharp owl
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This channel is more for discussion on what is actually described in lore. What you're asking about is very specific and also grounded more in mechanics than lore, so there's likely nothing that matches what you're describing so it's neither lore "friendly" or lore "unfriendly" (?), it's lore ambivalent

surreal charm
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Very well, thank you. ❤️

jagged apex
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It is A metropolis, and It was the city that adventurers lived in back in the day. There is a stand reference book for it from 2E. and from what i can find, Living City is what they used to call Adventurers League

jagged apex
vale kite
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Heya i was wondering about a certain god, that being Myrkul. Is it inherently evil foe being the god of death and the dead or is it more "Death doesnt care"

jagged apex
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death is not enherently evil

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but Myrkul himself is evil

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a lot of other and more powerful death deities are typically neutral such as Kelemvor and The Raven Queen

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plus like the other dead three, he was not always a god, he was originally a mortal man, and seemingly did not give up his humanity or other connections to who he was as a mortal to better do his job

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at least to me it seems likely the reason why the dead 3 often engage in such selfish plots and seemingly act much like many mortal men would if elevated to godhood vs acting like the more typical gods or those who have despite once being mortal given up their connection to their mortal life before so they can better do their job, such as was the case with kelemvor

jagged apex
civic pasture
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Would there be any reason a shadar kai would be in the fey wild?

crude blaze
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Easiest reason is pretty much the same as any and everybody else. Accidentally wandered in.

jagged apex
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at best, would be completely accidental

analog spear
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We have a Dragonborn barbarian who just picked the ancestral guardian path. We are just discussing how these ancestors look like. Can others see them? Are there maybe dragons among them? A donkey?

serene crater
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Thatd be more for #character-discussion but you can flavour it however you wish aa it can tie to your backstory

woeful dome
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Question: What's a BBEG that might want to sew the most amount of chaos throughout the different planes?

jagged apex
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generally demons, especially powerful demon lords are a safe bet

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but even then, that can vary from individual to individual of what they want to do

woeful dome
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Ya I was leaning that way so far since they are chaotic evil alignment. Demons just seem a little... Obvious as a BBEG

jagged apex
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eh, in broad strokes yes

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but specific individuals, most notably demon lords can be be much more complex and subtle

woeful dome
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Ya that might be the best bet

jagged apex
woeful dome
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Thanks! I'll do some research!

serene crater
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elder evils also work in those realms, but are a lot more strange in how and why they want to cause chaos

calm crest
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If you want to go especially chaotic, there are the Slaad Lords.

tardy wasp
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Wondering how certain character options might fit into Greyhawk/Oerth.

Mainly wondering what kind of monastery would train an Elements Monk? The only major Greyhawk elemental lore I know about is Elemental Evil, and that doesn’t seem right for a PC 😳

versed hare
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By making additions to the lore I bet

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I'm really looking forward tonthe new dmg

woeful dome
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Is there any DND equivalent to Loki? The evil Loki not the anti hero Loki.

fluid atlas
unkempt merlin
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(also pop culture aside, loki isn't "evil" in the norse mythos)

woeful dome
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Ah ok

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Im kind of looking for a "god of chaos" kinda vibe but actually evil

fluid atlas
woeful dome
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Thanks, I guess Cyric would be the next closest maybe.

jagged apex
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like if any deity in dnd's lore represented and embodied chaos, i'd say you can't much more so than tharzidun, he is literally an insane god who's goal is to destroy the entire dnd multiverse and everything in it, presumably including himself, and remake it in his own image, not to mention is very capable of doing so and could not even be killed only sealed away by using his own power against him, which required several gods and other entities working together

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heck the way it is described in his personality his evil transcends the simply alignment of neutral evil or law and chaos

woeful dome
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Oh that's perfect actually

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I'm kind of doing a Quantum Leap / Sliders but through the different planes and this 'element of chaos' is attempting to upend the balance of the planes/wheel of cosmology.

jagged apex
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well canonically he is still sealed up, but places tied to his power often are the means deranged clerics and other kinds of cultists are able to get power from them, else could potentially just make a sort of seperate sort of aspect or avatar of him like some other entities such as juiblex are theorized to be, if that helps

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especially if you were to combine it with the adventure "Turn of Fortune's Wheel" will not say more as it would not only be kind of going off topic, but otherwise would lead to spoilers

serene crater
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quick question, but would the Queen of Chaos be possible for a goolock patron?

jagged apex
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far as i can tell, one could make an argument as is rather broad and i doubt most in universe but the most knowledgeable of sages in regards to the demonic would know of her outside of old legends

woeful dome
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Cyric was imprisoned for 1000 years... what happens after the 1000 years?

jagged apex
woeful dome
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I was just reading that it doesn't seem to say clearly... It just says his following waned and he appeared to Malik to get him to foil Shar's followers but it doesn't seem to say where he is now or what state he's in

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It later says "after his imprisonement" so was he released? If he was released why does he need keys?

jagged apex
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the last known lore on him reffers to him as the imprisoned god, so presumably he is still locked up

jagged apex
woeful dome
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Ah ok sorry you're right

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So presumably... after the 1000 years he'd be released?

jagged apex
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no

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to my knowledge we don't know if he is ever intended to be released after a set amount of time

woeful dome
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"In retaliation for his murder of Mystra, Lathander, Tyr, and Sune trapped Cyric in the Supreme Throne for 1000 years."

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Isn't the term of his imprisonment 1000 years?

jagged apex
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well even if it is, it seems he is not anywhere near done

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as a century is 100 years

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though is a bit hard to tell exactly cuz at least on the wiki, a year is not given alongside his imprisonment

woeful dome
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Yeah I still think he's not close you're right cause I see a date before his imprisonment 1384, so he would have been imprisoned some time between then and now

jagged apex
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but based on the wording i am led to believe he is only 100 years or so into his imprisonment

woeful dome
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Gotcha, thanks- I can still involve him, he just needs to still be locked up

jagged apex
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but even then, that date is tied to his murder/attack on Helm, and then quickly mentions not long after a year passing

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and that is before he was imprisoned

woeful dome
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Right

jagged apex
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or if he does show up, like it says in the few cases he might have, it was a mere manifestation, which far as i can tell may basically mean an avatar

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so him being locked up is presumably his true body, ie the one that if slain by an equal or greater divine power in his own realm, would mean he'd die and become a vestige or potentially stop existing, forget which would happen off the top of my head

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though odds are he is more likely to have his chosen push his agenda on toril, so as to not anger lord Ao

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he is already in enough trouble

drowsy wraith
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Thank you!

light cradle
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What’s up with the other continents on toril

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Like what can be expected to be found there.

grim siren
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We know of the following.

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Faerun
Kara-Tur
Zakhara

Those three are part of a super continent that according to Ed Greenwood is referred to as Bharyar

Then there is across the Trackless Sea Which are connected.

Maztica
Anchorome

Across from a small strait is Katashaka to the south of Maztica.

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In addition there is Osse which is a continent to the south east of Kara-Tur

Arandron, a small contient to the south west of Faerun, and Thuin, a small continent to the south west of faerun. No map has ever shown these last two as they have only been talked about in tweets by Ed.

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Finally there is Laerakond.

Laerakond is in dispute if it is on Toril or not. It was moved there from Abeir the sister world to Toril during the spell plague.

AL says its gone through vague reference in 5e, Ed says its still there.

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So that is the whole list

Bharyar

Faerun
Kara-Tur
Zakhara

The True World

Anchorome
Maztica

Other

Katashaka
Osse
Arandron
Thuin
Laerakond*

*Might not be there any more.

reef cape
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Do people actually know that the current Mystra is not the original and that the original was killed by Helm?

lusty ravine
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Depends how much they know about D&D lore

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Some people know that

reef cape
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I meant people in-universe.

jagged apex
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yes

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at least her clergy do

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so they at least know about her death during karsus' folly

reef cape
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Sure, but is it common knowledge that she was killed by Helm? Did the church have a funeral for her?

jagged apex
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not sure about the second one, would be dependant on their knowledge of history regarding toril and it's gods, and why would they have a funeral for her? that is a thing mortals do for mortals, is not really as far as i know ever something done for deities, especially since normally death for a deity is more like a divine comma rather than death in the traditional sense

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don't get me wrong, people definitely mourned her death, Helm most of all, but a funeral would make no sense far as i am aware

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any one that somehow managed to acquire this item would definitely know it was helm if they did not know already

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and i doubt helm would be the sort of guide to hide the fact of his actions, so at the very least his church would know presumably

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but the general people of toril in universe at the very least know Mystra has died at least once

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anything beyond that could be a bit tricky to say objectively, i'd personally if wanting to know would simply ask ed greenwood, since if anyone knows for certain it would likely be him given it is his setting and he regularly works on it even to this day

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"As their gaze met, Mystra let out a terrible scream heard across the Realms as she saw her doom written in his face. Helm drew back and punched his gauntleted fist through her chest and Caitlan's body exploded in a blindingly hot flash of devastating power."
like, no way people did not notice that

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else far as i can see there does not seem to be a clear or direct statement of if it was made public knowledge or not or if so to what degree, at least not that i can find

reef cape
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What I'm really curious about is whether or not people know that the current Mystra is not a resurrection/reincarnation of the original but a human ascended to take the spot, who also took the name

drowsy mural
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@reef cape FRE 1-3 was my introduction to Forgotten Realms many many many moons ago. Still remember it like it was yesterday.

jagged apex
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i could be wrong though

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like i said, if you wanted to be extra sure if nobody else on this server knows, could ask ed greenwood

dusty meteor
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Hey could I get a quick run down on devils vs demons vs yugoloths vs demodands vs any other category of fiend that I'm missing

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I know devils vs demons but the other two and their comparisons to other races are still kind of a mystery to me

crude blaze
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Yugoloths are mercenary fiends. They generally side with whoever pays the most (what payment they seek varies between different types of yugoloths).
Demodands are jailer/torturer fiends from the plane of Carceri.

dusty meteor
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and baernaloths are just horrible creations with no purpose but pain and death?

crude blaze
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Baernaloth are a specific legendary type of yugoloth

dusty meteor
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Ah gotcha

crude blaze
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They're also mysterious, very little is known about them. Even the Books of Keeping (which is a collection of ancient information regarding the oldest yugoloths) doesn't mention them.

dusty meteor
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Yeah I read through the FRwiki and there's not too much

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might use them at some point, we'll see. They're very interesting to me

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Thanks!

crude blaze
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I think the point is that there isn't supposed to be much. They're kinda intended to be this ancient mysterious entity that you might be able to bargain some secrets out of.

jagged apex
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also unlike most fiends, or other outsiders for that matter far as i know, rather than souls, they thing they want the most of is material wealth

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you know gold, jewels, ect...

jagged apex
jagged apex
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if wanting to know more, seems their forgotten realms wiki page does not include their lore from their reintroduction to 5e, though in broad strokes is still the same as their niche i guess you could call it

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their 5e lore is part of their section in the 5e planescape books if you wanna know specifically what pertains to the 5e continuity

glossy summit
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why is vecna so famous

crude blaze
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He’s just one of the most iconic villains in D&D history. Goes back as far as 1976 and appeared in some pretty popular adventures since then.

glossy summit
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so like stranger things?

rare badge
glossy summit
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what about demogorgons?

rare badge
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What about them?

glossy summit
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what are they

crude blaze
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The villains/monsters you hear about in Stranger Things are only associated with D&D in their names

rare badge
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^

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They name them after the DND monsters because they play the game in the show

glossy summit
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because the main character of stranger things play said dnd game?

rare badge
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The way they work in either medium is completely different

crude blaze
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For example, in Stranger Things, demogorgons are those creepy monsters from the Upside Down. In D&D, there’s only one Demogorgon, and he’s a demon prince.

crude blaze
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Demogorgon, mind flayers, and Vecna are very different in D&D than they are in Stranger Things

glossy summit
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mind flayers are squidward tentacles people?

crude blaze
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Yes

glossy summit
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and demogorgon is one demon prince instead of a group of monsters?

crude blaze
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Yes. Well, technically one demon prince with two heads that each have their own personality.

glossy summit
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And Vecna isnt eleven's mentally unstable experiment "acquaintance"?

crude blaze
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Correct. Eleven doesn’t exist in D&D. She’s a Stranger Things character who is friends with a group of friends who love playing D&D.

glossy summit
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Why is he named vecna?

crude blaze
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Again, because the kids in Stranger Things are avid fans of D&D, so the creepy villain they’re encountering reminds them of Vecna.

rare badge
# glossy summit Why is he named vecna?

“The name Vecna is actually an anagram for Vance, an ode to fantasy author Jack Vance, whose works were the inspiration behind the magic system used in Dungeons & Dragons.” -ScreenRant (if you’re asking why he’s named that in the first place)

crude blaze
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If you remember, the character himself is not named Vecna. The kids in Stranger Things nicknamed him Vecna so they can associate the villain with something they’re familiar with.

glossy summit
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Ahhhhh

light cradle
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Is there time travel in the forgotten realms?

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I think I saw that the splitting of Abair and toril created ripples backwards and forwards in time which is kinda time travel

reef cape
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There are a few novels, adventures and fictions that contain instances of time travel, yes.

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But the game has no mechanic for that

light cradle
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Oh brother still that could be a headache

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Is it like stable loop always happened always will happen stuff

reef cape
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It depends.

light cradle
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I actually don’t know what I am talking about I love time travel

reef cape
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Some writers prefer the stable loop trick, others prefer stories where the timeline is changed.

light cradle
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I forgot to have my own opinion for a second there

reef cape
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Personally, I admit that, were I to include time travel in a game, I would do the stable loop one.

light cradle
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Do they at least keep it consistent within the method

reef cape
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Certainly not.

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D&D lore is written in hundreds of novels, by half a hundred different writers, and fifty years of sourcebooks.

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Consistence would be a luxury

light cradle
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Yeah when you put it like that I can’t blame them for any inconsistency

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Stable loop make for the least lose ends and plot holes I feel

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What are some ways you know people have time traveled in the forgotten realms

reef cape
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One case I remember would be #1029833015423143957, another case I remember is use of extremely powerful magic.

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In one of the novels, set in Netherese times, Karsus, most likely the most powerful mage in the history of the Forgotten Realms, can time travel easily.

light cradle
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Flipping Karsus dude

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Always up to something

reef cape
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Oh, and there are a few magical portals that can sometimes spit people in the past or future.

light cradle
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Cool

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I know Karsus was off his rocker with go “range one god thing” and the floating cities but now time travel? Anything else he did most other wizards could not?

reef cape
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He was a genius and a prodigy. Even by the incredibly high standards of Netheril

light cradle
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Yeah bros stats where crazy I hear.

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Was he a cool guy or a jerk I can’t tell just by what he did

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Definitely full of hubris

reef cape
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Well, he turned another guy into a lich due to carelessness with a spell.

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So, the Avatar fiasco was not the first time he put a lot of other people in danger.

light cradle
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Netherise. They still have that one floating city in the shadow fell or did that get blown up to?

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I forgot

reef cape
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I am unfamiliar with the changes to the lore that came with 4th edition, I fear.

light cradle
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No problem!

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How did you get so well versed in the lore anyway just reading and stuff or anything special?

reef cape
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Well, I like to know the setting I'm running.

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That comes from studying its history

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In the case of your question about time travel, it's simply that I ran an adventure that had an element of it.

light cradle
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Sweet!

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I have been watching some videos on the forgotten realms it’s alot to take in

reef cape
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Be careful about that. As I mentioned, the lore contradicts itself. Youtubers that make lore videos do not present those contradictions and tend to showcase a straightforward version, omitting all the other versions.

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One example of inconsistency is, for example: Does Asmodeus have the power to end the blood war? Some lore says he does but refuses to do so for his own agenda, other lore says that he certainly does not, and that the blood war will inevitably end in a demon victory

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But you will find few people willing to say that there are two versions and it's up to the DM to choose which one.

fluid atlas
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I was under the impression that the Blood War was destined to never end, though I can't say where I heard that

light cradle
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Good advice I will keep it in mind

reef cape
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Indeed. Three versions

light cradle
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Like is the abyss infinite or just have 666 layers is that another contradiction

reef cape
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Infinite.

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Though, again, some lore presents it as having 666 layers. The parts that present it as infinite greatly outnumber them though

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And it is important to also understand the motives behind the writing of one version or another. Presenting Asmodeus as capable of ending the blood war but refusing to do so tells a particular story about how powerful and manipulative the character is. Presenting the blood war as destined to never end presents a story about endless conflict. Presenting the blood war as being inevitably won by demons in the long term is a story about how entropy cannot be beaten, only delayed.

light cradle
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Makes sense gives more ways to tell more stories

reef cape
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But those stories are mutually exclusive. Only one can be true in a given campaign. I think they're about as worthwhile as each other, but I admit a preference towards the entropy one.

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Regardless, engaging with D&D lore, for me, is about finding those contradictions and making a choice

light cradle
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What do you think are like top 5 most important contradictions

reef cape
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I wouldn't really be able to say.

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I suppose on the nature of the gods and avatars would be a big one.

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I can find two clear versions that are completely mutually exclusive:

  1. The lesser gods exist as physical entities that can be touched or killed (though whether or not they stay dead depends on a number of factors), but the greater gods exist beyond the physical and create avatars, whose are physical and similar to the lesser gods
  2. No god exists as a physical entity, all gods create avatars.
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But is it one of the most important? I don't know

light cradle
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Yeah that’s seems a bit more flavor despite it being pretty important to the universe. To the story you are trying to tell it seems like it wouldn’t make that much of a difference unless you focused on it.

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That blood war thing seems like it would make the list.

fluid atlas
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The Blood War also rarely comes into play, especially the details of it ending

reef cape
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Certainly, but the contradiction I outlined on the blood war is more than just the blood war. It can be relevant to any game dealing with Asmodeus.

light cradle
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And Because If it goes on forever that means like existence will go on forever which is massively existentially different than the real world where will reasonably know the end of the universe is definite thing

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Right?

reef cape
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Also that, but it would mostly affect a game in the sense that it might give a character an existential crisis

light cradle
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Yeah

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The concept of a truly endless world of conflict is definitely terrifying and reassuring in different ways

reef cape
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Ah, another one!
So, in BG3, Karlach says that devils tend to be predictable, they act according to their type, so if you're familiar with the type of devil you're dealing with, you are unlikely to be surprised. She also said that demons are not predictable. That every demon is a completely different individual. Other lore supports her.
Most lore does not, and tends to describe demons as more predictable than devils.

light cradle
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Yeah both of those could make sense

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You have a preference on this one?

reef cape
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Individuals, by far. Demons are chaotic and the abyss is infinite and ever-changing. I find the idea that they would be so strangely ordered to go against the core concept

light cradle
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Yeah that makes sense for the more intelligent ones

reef cape
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It also leads to another contradiction. Among the demon lords, Graz'zt is something of an anomaly for being courteous, polite, manipulative, and generally less violent than the others. In one of those conceptions, it's fine, it's perfectly normal. In the other, the explanation is that he's special in some way.

light cradle
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It would make sense that he is normal what’s more chaotic then the occasional demon in a chaotic plane being lawful

reef cape
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There's nothing lawful about Graz'zt. Being courteous and polite is not lawful.

light cradle
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Well it’s sorta following social “laws”

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But yeah you could be chaotic and be polite

fluid atlas
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Graz'zt, like all Demons, is driven by and wants chaos. That's part of their nature, and, as far as I'm aware, we've never heard of a Demon changing alignment (and thus into a different creature)

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The difference is his mannerisms and demeanor

fluid atlas
light cradle
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If demons only invariably want one thing I could see that making them predictable to a degree

light cradle
reef cape
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"Wanting chaos" can mean a lot of different things.

fluid atlas
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According to the PHB, Demons would "act with arbitrary violence, spurred by their greed, hatred, or bloodlust"

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That's a quote from the section on alignment about Chaotic Evil

reef cape
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And the idea that demons act with arbitrary violence, spurred by greed, hatred or bloodlust is also another one of those contradictions we've been talking about

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The PHB says that, but then other books contradict it.

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In any case, it's what I mean. Every sentence that seems like it establishes a rule for D&D lore, you can probably find another that contradicts it. Make a choice.

jagged apex
jagged apex
reef cape
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Courtesy and politeness is not orderly. It's just a means to get people to do what you want, same as violence.

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Just a more subtle one.

jagged apex
jagged apex
reef cape
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I apparently do not, indeed.

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I thought you were going to argue that Graz'zt has lawful tendencies.

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A take I've heard often. Seems like I anticipated, and was mistaken. Apologies.

jagged apex
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well he has what at a glance seem like it, often behind his back he is teased for his seemingly devil like behavior, people often referring to his triple realm as "the little hells"

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with graz'zt though he is no slouch when it comes to killing he believes that to be the most powerful you also gotta be the most intelligent, cited as being from mordenkainen's tome of foes "He entertained the notion that he was the most cunning and intelligent creature in the Abyss; indeed, there were few who could possibly contest such a claim."

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and he is known for basically being the 3rd wheel so to speak in the constant struggle for the title prince of demons, with the actual prince of demons demogorgon and the demon prince of undeath orcus, when ever one of them gets the upper hand, not long after one of the other two will undo that work, though not directly, thus neither of the three have really been able to cement themselves above the others

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and being able to be on par, even in not in purely combative sense, with those two is nothing to scoff at, as a majority of the power he holds is more so rooted in his allies, the people/demons he knows, his allies, and otherwise for lack of a better term, political power

jagged apex
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presumably the destructive and cruel nature and inclination towards violence and destruction would make them seem full of bloodlust to a mortal

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heck even back in 3.5e, the fiendish codex 1 hoards of the abyss, even says "it would be reductive to simply brush demons off as no more than killers. While demons generally loved death, most found killing on its own boring," to quote the wiki

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demons may seem rather simple minded on the service, but there is a good bit of nuance to their behavior if you look closely and pay attention, just like with the alignments in dnd in general, not just evil or the chaotic evil of the abyss

runic cave
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why were there specific archdevils called out for the archdevil tieflings in tome of foes? Are other archdevils incapable of making archdevils?

crude blaze
runic cave
crude blaze
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Most of the lore presented in Mordenkainen’s Tome of Foes is specific to the Forgotten Realms setting, but D&D has tons of official settings.

runic cave
tardy wasp
unkempt merlin
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you would think, but no, most of it is FR specific

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with a handful of sidebars for others

crude blaze
crude blaze
runic cave
crude blaze
tardy wasp
# unkempt merlin you would think, but no, most of it is FR specific

What makes it FR, though? The tag for the book seems to be focused on the “core” of the multiverse, like tying all elves to the Seldarine but saying Dragonlance/Eberron/etc. elves have forgotten about them. Besides, most of the lore in it seems kinda contradictory to what’s been established in the many years of the Realms.

runic cave
crude blaze
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Correct

crude blaze
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Which is nothing new. Lore has been changed and updated between every edition.

light cradle
#

What nation in the toril is the strongest?

fading zinc
#

with the greater deity thing, im pretty sure that like, atleast in terms of the mortal world, all the deitys use avatars and mortals basically cant touch them unless they are below whats considered a god

jagged apex
#

not everything in dnd known, especially in universe by sages

jagged apex
#

to my knowledge it is not like nations on toril are regularly going to war or competing for power, and in a world with gods and magic as a fact of life, what "strongest" would mean can vary wildly

#

heck you could argue the much smaller lantan is do to their heavy focus on artificers via the church of gond

jagged apex
#

is at least extremely difficult to even harm a deity, let alone anything beyond that, odds are if you tried to punch a god's avatar, you'd do vastly more harm to yourself than anything else

jagged apex
#

prior to it's fall at least the greatest human magical empire was netheril as i recall, but that has long since fallen to mere ruins at best

#

and some of the ones listed on the forgotten realms wiki are not even around anymore, but far as i know the most likely candidate in the modern day or at least closest to present day on toril i am aware of is Thay, but i could mistaken in that, is not really something i have ever heard focused on

tardy wasp
#

What’s the reason for Veluna and Celene in Greyhawk being named after Oerth’s moons?

I’ve heard one at least comes from a contraction of the “Vale of Luna,” but I’ve found no extrapolation on what that means.

warm blaze
#

Since I saw folks talking about Graz'zt earlier I might as well touch on one highly contentious subject
What do you guys think is his actual origin? Because I have a weird headcanon for it I always take to make sense

#

Then again for 5e the ex-devil one seems to be the one with the most standing since Obyriths haven't been mentioned thus far to my knowledge

#

I mean there are Sibriexes but they're not explicitly posed as Obyriths in Mordenkainen's

warm hawk
#

I'm trying to find one wrong thing with every Faerunian God "at least as many as the common amongst us would know of" and so I started off with golden boy Lathander and damn do I hate him now... Man's is Allergic to accountability. Then I was gonna hit up Helm and I CAN'T FIND A SINGLE THING WRONG WITH HIM

warm blaze
#

He's just too lawful

#

I mean didn't he have beef with Mystra back in the Time of Troubles or something like that?

#

Like that he was explicitly the reason Mystra's Tear was a thing?

stray quartz
#

What's the relation between githyanki and astral elves (spelljammer)? And from that, what's the opinion of githzerai on astral elves?

jagged apex
#

different editions have different lore and are effectively able to be viewed as their own continuities for the most part

jagged apex
stray quartz
jagged apex
#

which is not surprising given the mo of the githyanki under their undying queen

stray quartz
#

So what would be the realtionship between the astral elves and the githzerai, which are (I think I'm not 100% on the lore) at war with the githyanki?

jagged apex
#

last i checked part of the whole split between the gith is those that would become the githyanki wanted their turn and enslaving the other races, where as the githzerai felt that would make them no better than the illithid

stray quartz
#

So a githzerai would be on the side of the astral elves?

jagged apex
#

to my knowledge all we get is the one line

#

to quote the full sentence, "Over the eons, astral elves have clashed with numerous invaders, including psurlons, mind flayers, and githyanki." end quote

stray quartz
#

Oh wow that's not much

jagged apex
#

far as we know, the have had no canonical interactions with the githzerai

stray quartz
#

So I could invent one up for a home setting without clashing with the lore?

unkempt merlin
#

anything you do for a home setting doesn't class with the lore

#

its a homebrew setting

stray quartz
#

I still don't want stuff to directly contradict the lore

warm blaze
jagged apex
#

the closest thing to their culture we get really is with the Xaryxian Empire included in the adventure that is part of the spelljamming 5e books

stray quartz
#

great thanks!

jagged apex
#

well, is not nothing, but it is not exactly direct

#

going by what is in the adventure they have an emperor and we know from the statblocks in one of the other books in the bundle they have aristicrats, honor guards, priests, ect..., but otherwise we risk going more so into #1029833015423143957 territory

#

but otherwise from whati can tell they are much like other elves very close to their gods, arugably more so than other elves given the reason they took to the silvery void to begin with, but mainly dwell in the astral plane and wildspace on citadels and what not

#

there is stuff there, but not as much as other elves that have been around in published material far longer

#

i don't wanna risk breaking the rules by quoting everything so i would suggest looking at their section in "Boo's Astral Menagerie" the book in the bundle that details them as a race and the statblocks to use them as npcs

stray quartz
#

This might be a slightly stupid question but I can't find an answer in the forgotten realms wiki, but what's the realtion between the githyanki and the astral sea? I konw it's their home, but what do they think of it? I know they mean to concuer, so perhaps they will be proprietal about it, but I can't really find anything concrete

jagged apex
#

but some hallmarks are having their citadel's orbiting stars, collecting starlight, growing crystals to repain and scult their ships that are sort of like a plant like organic material that hardens like ceramic, and reshaping the petrified bodies of dead gods found in the astral plane into their cities and citadels

jagged apex
stray quartz
jagged apex
#

at least if they do, it is not mentioned or left up to your the dm's interpretation and personal opinion

stray quartz
#

great, thanks!

jagged apex
#

where as the astral elves moved there to more or less be closer to their gods

stray quartz
#

So I could say that the githzerai and astral elves are natural allies, since they both resent the conquest of the githyanki

jagged apex
#

as the astral plane connects the outer planes to the rest of the planes, such as the elemental and prime material if i am not mistaken

#

well the githzerai tend to not really involve themselves with other races far as i am aware, they just mainly show up to wipe out as many illithid as they can when ever they do show up on the prime material plane

stray quartz
jagged apex
stray quartz
#

Ohhh, great point

jagged apex
#

far as i can guess, the two would not really have any reason to interact with each other unless perhaps the illithid were to attack the astral elves empire(s)

#

and even then, they would likely just show up, murder the illithid and then leave

stray quartz
#

I'm running a campaign with a banished astral elf, and just wanna know if a githzerai enemy would be of too much note

jagged apex
#

but that is just an educated guess based on what i know of both in the lore, only time will tell as we have to give them time to write lore or interactions between them as the astral elves are still relatively new to the 5e landscape especially since they are heavily associated with the more space fairing side of things, being introduced in the 5e incarnation of spelljammer

#

for now i'd just go with your best judgement based on what lore you can find if wanting to be as close to the lore as possible, but each table and campaign are also their own continuities, so don't worry if it winds up contradicting if we do actually get such lore in the future

stray quartz
#

awsome, I'm kinda new to the whole lore part of dnd, so I really appreciate all the help I can get, thanks!

jagged apex
#

basically what is in published lore is not the end all be all, more so a default lore you can use to save time as a dm when running your games, else it is purely what has been published by wizards of the coast, no more, no less

#

it really only effects your game and table if you as dm allow it to

stray quartz
#

Using the default lore just means that I don't have the motivation to write all the docs of lore I want to, cuz I don't really have the time and I know that if I started I would only do that for the next week, and I can't really be doing that

light cradle
#

Is there a way to permanently kill a demon

jagged apex
#

yes

stray quartz
jagged apex
#

at least not in any lore i am aware of, else that is banking everything on something not guaranteed to work

jagged apex
# light cradle Is there a way to permanently kill a demon

kill it while it is in the abyss, but given the new lore in the 5e planescape books, is unclear if that is only a temporary solution now, but historically killing an outsider, a being native to the outer planes, on their home plane of existence would be a true death, ie they would not simply reform

light cradle
#

Can you eat aboleth

#

Part of me is like the proteins that make up an aboleth are surely foreign to the material plane or and not safe for consumption

#

But also like aboleth kalimari

jagged apex
#

yes, but not in a way that it is safe to eat, far as i know

#

like doing so will definitely make you sick if not kill you

light cradle
#

I know eating the mucus makes it so you can only breath water

light cradle
jagged apex
#

no sane person in universe would try to eat one, a deep dragon, sure they will, but dragons can eat nearly anything safely

#

also they are noted as being more so eel like than anything, so no kalimari, even if you could eat it safely

light cradle
jagged apex
#

and given you take acid damage every second you are outside of the water, needless to say it would not be a happy existance if you were free

#

but far as i know the only creatures that are known to be able to safely consume aboleth flesh are the deep dragons

#

and that mucus covers there entire body and is what allows them to breath, so definitely could not safely eat abolith flesh by virture of that fact

#

cuz effectively you'd suffer that disease and be transformed and then die unless you were able to make it under water quickly enough

#

and even then, pretty sure "eel like" is just for the sake of describing their physical appearance, their anatomy is massively more alien

#

so unless you are a deep dragon, far as i am aware the flesh of an aboleth is NOT edible

light cradle
#

Or like dry them out

#

aboleth jerky

#

But yeah I get the picture

#

How about angels?

#

They can crossbreed with humans so I think yes probably. Opinions?

#

Would there be any extra negative or positive side affects?

#

Feel like it might kinda be like eating the Eucharist

jagged apex
#

far as i know aboleth flesh is not safe for humanoid consumtion at all

#

1 as outsiders angels bodies and souls are one in the same and will disolve unless slain of their home plane of existance, and they are far stronger than their current 5e stats would lead you to believe

#

also why the heck would you be trying to eat an angel?

light cradle
#

I watched dungeon meshi and now I wanna go through the monster manual and see what I can “cook up”

jagged apex
#

well, incase it was not obvious, not all of them are even edible

#

heck some just by their very nature are unlikely to even be encountered by most adventurers

light cradle
#

Then I will come up with a way they can assist in the cooking process

jagged apex
#

i dm'd you what little i know of that can potentially assist you in that, but is not really something the lore focuses on too often to my knowledge with many such things kind of appearing randomly

#

and that is assuming if ever detailed in published materials

light cradle
warm hawk
light cradle
#

Can you eat an Ankheg?

light cradle
#

When you gets to stoned by a basilisk do you die mechanically

#

Like does you soul go to the afterlife and junk

calm crest
#

A petrified creature isn’t typically dead.

light cradle
#

So you can use petrifaction as like a method for stasis right

#

Like Futurama wake me in 1000 years type shit

#

Right?

calm crest
#

Petrification generally stops the aging process.

light cradle
#

Sweet

#

Can basilisk extract work to help other types of petrifaction

true saffron
#

How much does a nautiloid weigh?

modest badger
#

Not sure the ships are ever given weights like that. They used to have tonnage, but that's a spatial ton, measuring their volume, not weight.

#

From the 5e rules for a spelljamming helm, we can at least assume it weighs more than 1 ton:

The ship in question must weigh 1 ton or more.

And probably a lot more than that considering it can carry 17 tons itself.

light cradle
#

Does the disintegration ray of a beholder destroy matter

sharp owl
#

Yes

fiery comet
#

While rabbits produce a lot of offspring, that is normal of smaller species like insects, rodents, and lagomorphs, where they produce a lot of offspring without putting a lot of effort into raising any of them in the hopes that a few will survive. Larger species like humans, apes, and horses will have relatively few children at a time and spend time raising them to be more sure they make it to adulthood. If haregon are generally expected to survive to adulthood, then they would probably have siblings on the same order as humans. If you want them to reproduce like rabbits do, then either the world is full of them, or you have to come up with a reason why 95% of them don't make it to adulthood.

#

Has it ever been established where human souls come from like we know the souls of elves are the children of Corellon? I have a player playing a half elf that wants to be a full elf. I want to make a path that they could become an elf, but first I think I need to understand the nature of a human soul.

jagged apex
fiery comet
#

Has it ever been established where human souls come from like we know the souls of elves are the children of Corellon? I want to make a path that a half-elf could become an elf, but first I think I need to understand the nature of a human soul.

jagged apex
#

historically there is a domain in the Astral Plane known as the Bastion of Unborn Souls, which at one point the fiendish red dragon Ashardalon had set up their lair there, but there is very little info on that far as i am aware

#

it was an important location in the adventure in 3e called "Bastion of Broken Souls" so more details might be in able to be found there

#

far as i recall and am otherwise aware the bastion historically had some sort of connection to the positive energy plane

calm crest
#

Is there any evidence that the reïncarnate spell would allow a half-elf (or anyone else for that matter) to fully become an elf in both body and soul (or spirit, depending on edition)? If so, that might be a valid tactic.

jagged apex
#

reincarnation would change the body, far as i know is not even touched on if it alters the soul at all

#

but one of the things about half-elves is some elves are not fond of them as in their view they believe an elven soul to be trapped and for ever cut off from their cycle of reincarnation and the chance to ever one day return to their heaven

calm crest
#

It is a curious quandary as to whether a creature magically reïncarnated as an elf or other species that naturally reïncarnates would do so or continue to function as their original soul did.

jagged apex
#

while other elves are of the opposite view and feel is something to be viewed positively as how the elves much like their god were natural shapeshifters and vary adaptable

#

to my knowledge is something left unclear, we just know the two differing views of half-elves in elvish society, and beyond that it is not really explored to my knowledge

#

it seems an elf that came into being would not reincarnate on death as the reincarnation is less biology and more so a matter of the elf's soul and their relationship with their gods, like the drow for example, they do not reincarnate nor do they even experience the same sort of thing in the earlier years of their life when they trance

#

but it seems your soul would still more or less be the same as it was, granted i could be wrong or it could change on how you view yourself or something, idk, does not seemed to be something they detail and thus is left ambiguous

calm crest
#

Makes sense. Probably less relevant was well given that different species are no longer divided into having mechanically distinct souls and spirits.

jagged apex
#

no longer? far as i know that was never really the case, besides mechanics are mechanics, they rarely have any effect on the lore and if anything more often are ment to reflect the lore, not the otherway around

calm crest
#

No, I know, I was just speculating as to the continued ambiguity being less pressing, as the exacting nature of souls vs. spirits was only pertinent in AD&D, as far as I know.

jagged apex
#

well the details with the likes of elves and dwarves are specific to their faiths, their gods, and the myths surrounding them

#

humanity in dnd has no racial god, least not one that is alive, to my knowledge this is supposedly why they are so compatible for siring children with so many races

#

and given that and there being plenty of other gods that humans do worship, it makes sense there is no unifying myth regarding human souls

#

so far as we know human souls are the same as any other that would pass on to the afterlife

warm blaze
#

Alright just because I'm in a lower planes lore binge
Am I the only one who thinks the Great Serpent idea for Asmodeus is simultaneously cool but also kind of cringe?

reef cape
#

While I would agree, I have to say that discussions on opinions on lore go to other channels.

warm blaze
#

Wait is there a lore discussion channel or am I kind of crazy rn

jagged apex
#

this is for what is is published in published materials, opinions on it, are technically more fitting of general #dnd-discussion

warm blaze
#

Gotcha

crude sparrow
#

I asked this question before in a different server but I want to know is there anything that happens in Cannon when a Warlock Kills their Patron? Like most of the Patrons stated have stated Statblocks and CRs in the monster manual so it is possible for them to be killed by the party isnt it?

unkempt merlin
#

in theory a patron might be able to be killed yes.
lorewise what happens is not exactly (or rather, necessarily) a sure thing because its really a question of mechanics at a certain point

jagged apex
dense pendant
tardy wasp
#

Have goliaths ever been present in the Greyhawk setting? I know they were introduced as a major race in 3.5e, which sorta-kinda used Oerth as the default setting, but I dunno.

light cradle
#

Do beholders need to eat? Spectators seem to need too

jagged apex
serene crater
#

quick question, but is it possible for their to be male hags?

wet roost
#

would you count hagspawn?

serene crater
#

technically? though only if not possible for pure hags

jagged apex
#

apart from hagspawn, hags all are physically female in dnd unless they explicitly change their form via magic or some other means

heavy flame
#

Yeah

light cradle
#

What would a spectator do after it’s free?

serene crater
#

typically when they've finsihed their task, they would return to their home plane off in the far realm. It's not particularly fond of the material plane

fluid atlas
# light cradle What would a spectator do after it’s free?

When a spectator has fulfilled its service, it is free to do as it pleases. Many take up residence in the places they previously guarded, especially if their summoners have died. With the spectator’s loss of purpose, the quirks it displayed during its servitude flourish.

#

from their section in the 5e Monster Manual

modest badger
# serene crater quick question, but is it possible for their to be male hags?

Eberron, according to Keith Baker in his blog, has hags who can take on any form:

There’s no reason hags have to take female forms. Even by fifth edition lore, their forms reflect the wickedness in their heart; wickedness isn’t limited by gender. While “hag” remains the common term for this class of fey, they can appear in male, female, or nonbinary forms.
https://keith-baker.com/dragonmarks-hags/

although I'd need to look through to see if I can find an official example of such. Likewise Crawford has said he includes non-female hags in his game, but that really is non-official and just anecdotal.

Mordenkainen Present Monsters of the Multiverse makes this official however. See Annis Hags description:

When an annis feels especially cruel, the hag adopts the appearance of a kindly elder, approaches a child in a remote place, and gives them an iron token (described below), through which the child can magically confide in the hag. Over time, "Granny" or "Grampy" convinces the child that it's okay to do bad deeds...

Similarily the Bheur Hag in MPMM is not described with gendered language.

#

I suspect we'll see something similar in the 2024 MM and in future. (I'm sure I remember an official Male Hag somewhere, but can't find him now)

coral comet
#

An odd question maybe but are Dragonborn capable of having tails or wings potentially

sharp owl
#

Depends on setting

#

And even on specific dragonborn tbh

modest badger
#

Currently, they don't have tails, asside from some in Exandria.
MTG art depicts them with tails, but these are carefully hidden when used in the 5e D&D books.
Wings used to be an UA feat.
Arkhan is a dragonborn with a tail in FR,(but because he originally was a draconian from Dragonlance publication/design wise)

coral comet
sharp owl
#

That's not what I'm saying, this isn't a DM discretion thing. As Elgate mentioned, the nature of different species can differ from setting to setting

torpid quartz
#

Do Helm and Graz'zt have any issues with each other?

jagged apex
#

far as i know the two have never even had any notable interactions with one another, doubt they would get alone or anything like that given their respective natures

coral comet
grim siren
#

On Dragonborn tails it is possible for some Dragonborn in the Realms to have a tail but to the dragonborn this was very rare thing/bad omen. (Nothing to hate the child over) Considering it an attachment to Dragons which by and large Dragonborn actually really capital D Despise.

You might see art of dragon dudes in Tyranny of Dragons that have tails. Those are not Dragonborn, they are Half-Dragons.

#

Further Reading

Acquisitions Incorporated. Edited by Scott Fitzgerald Gray. (Wizards of the Coast), p. 200. ISBN 978-0786966905.

slow river
#

do any type of dragons particularly like weapons?

modest badger
#

...Bronze Dragons are known to be particularily interested in warfare and glorious battle, so might be that some have an interest in weapons.

Dragons can also have particular interests for their hoards, so individual dragons might have a fascination in weaponry.

And they can wear and use items, particularily magic items, but I can't recall seeing any depicted using weapons while in their dragon form. Teeth, claw and breath tend to suffice.

slow river
#

trying to pick a type for my patron. thanks!

jagged apex
jagged apex
#

after checking seems they had at least magical items that were weapons to augment at least their claws and their bite, but yeah, generally their natural weapons of claws, teeth, and if need be breath weapon tend to be enough to deal with most threats far as i am aware so i imagine these items would not be used often

feral lintel
crude blaze
feral lintel
#

Might be me mixing silver and sapphire together then

crude blaze
#

Sapphire dragons are more militaristic, so I get the confusion

feral lintel
#

Yeah, i keep bunching those two together because i groupe them in the blue-ish dragon category in my brain

jagged apex
#

you likely are confusing the typical personalities of sapphires and silvers

feral lintel
#

Yeah, thats what i figured

jagged apex
#

to quote the forgotten realms wiki cited from the 2009 incarnation and the version from 3e "Militaristic and warlike, they loved to discuss military matters and strategy. " in regards to describing sapphire dragons

#

silvers are more so the good doers who will refrain from action unless there is a method that does not do unwarranted harm to those who are otherwise innocent, and rather than seeking out evil and destroying it, they focus more on defending humans and elves that it will have come to care for

#

one might describe them as overly cautious

feral lintel
#

Silver dragons are also the ones that are more likely to be hanging around humanoids, right?

jagged apex
#

as the potential of unintentionally doing harm to the innocent is likely why they wait to be asked for help rather than proactively seeking out evil to destroy

feral lintel
#

iirc, i also remember something about them being a bit too friendly

jagged apex
#

they love human dining, and to my knowledge if they can, will have a different food for each and every meal, though it will as i recall have to eventually go hunting to get a meal that will sate their hunger properly, could be wrong about that detail though

feral lintel
#

Ic ic... human dining eh?

jagged apex
jagged apex
# feral lintel Ic ic... human dining eh?

yeah, shape changing into a humanoid form and going and having a "meal" at a restaurant in a town not far from it's lair would be within the realm of the sort of thing a silver dragon may do in their free time

feral lintel
#

Copper dragons are friendly but not as... uh, ig "naive" as silvers are?

jagged apex
#

silvers are by no means naive

feral lintel
#

idk how to describe it

jagged apex
#

at least from any lore i am aware of, an individual, maybe, but not as a whole

feral lintel
#

Might be mixing up some info from The Monsters Know then

jagged apex
#

their major drawback of their personality as far as i am aware is them more or less over thinking things, leading them to not reach a conclusion sometimes until it is no longer relevant to the events going on around it

#

hence why i said one could describe them as overly cautious

#

honestly, their tendency to sometimes ponder too long on a course of action, one could attribute to being quite the opposite of naive

tardy wasp
#

Given that the new Circle of the Moon… is actually about the moon and not when certain Druids happen to hang out, I want to ask: is there any precedence for Druids who draw power from the moon/lunar gods in any of the official settings?

jagged apex
#

druids draw their power from nature

#

some might get it, even if unknowingly from a nature god, but they are only divine casters on a matter of that technicality, most druids serve nature more often than any specific god, at least if i am not mistaken

#

far as i know, circle of the moon was never about any sort of time of day, be it when the druids "hang out" or otherwise

pastel cloud
#

I'm working on learning the lore for the hells and this got me thinking, does other afterlives have like a world similar to the hells (Ofc not as bad, but I mean like working, living, buying) or does everyone just have complete peace and everything you could want. Because from what @analog ruin helped me realize, Complete peace and everything one could ever want would become like hell eventually

jagged apex
jagged apex
#

and last i checked, complete peace is far from the status quo of any of the planes, even the upper planes are not safe from conflicts and even then they still have their own societies and what not

#

and in the case of the 9 hells especially, nothing is really given freely, there is almost always some sort of cost, exchange, or catch

#

the outer planes are effectively entire worlds in their own right with their own native peoples and ways of life, they are just metaphysical in nature like the plane they live on

#

in dnd death is never the end of a mortal being, at least not outright, is more accurate to say it is the end of their mortal life and the beginning of their new life for better or for worse

pastel cloud
jagged apex
#

hell is basically an infernal bureaucracy

pastel cloud
#

I've never really gone into that too much in my worldbuilding, maybe that is for the best

#

Ofc besides the hells and the abyss, among other things

jagged apex
#

everyone trying to climb the latter of power, even so far as up to Asmodeus, though this is more so because Asmodeus does nothing to dissuade from trying or thinking it is even possible to overthrow him

#

honestly lore videos from credible dnd lore youtubers and even the 5e planescape books are good sources for such info, else most of that stuff tends to be fleshed out back in like 3.5e

#

but older books can sometimes be harder to acquire or otherwise access unless you happen to own a copy already

pastel cloud
#

I may have to lookat some of those, I've been trying to worldbuild my own setting and after running/being in the process of running a campaign in the hells I wanted to find some ideas on what the other afterlives would be

pastel cloud
jagged apex
#

well your own setting does not mean you have to also make your own cosmology, not every setting is a self contained cosmology, heck quite the opposite at least in published materials and often makes story telling involving the wider cosmsos a bit easier as a lot of the work is already done for you basically

meager lotus
#

Hypothetically speaking, what would happen if a mortal being managed to kill the goddess Shar? like say if they managed to obtain Godsbane and do it like how Cyric killed Mystra. Would that person be forced to become the new god/goddess of darkness and loss? Would the Shadowfell instantly collapse (since she created it)? If so would that effect the Prime Material?

jagged apex
#

that would not be enough, at least to my knowledge

#

as godsbane was just a form Mask, another god, took the form of during the time of troubles

meager lotus
#

Well Godsbane was just another hypothetical aspect of the question, I'm moreso wondering what would happen if she was killed

jagged apex
#

even if the shadowfell did collapse, there is no reason to believe it would effect the prime material plane at all

#

the shadowfell is a mirror plane to the prime material, a dark reflection of it, not the other way around

pastel cloud
jagged apex
#

to my knowledge there is no magical item that a mortal could acquire that and would know about, that would be able to harm, let alone kill, Shaar in any meaningful way, as that would still have to be done in her divine domain, her home, where she is able to be at full strenght and her full totality at all times and could even keep you from even being able to enter pretty easily

#

traditionally if a god is killed, usually by another god, the killer will take their portfolio and fill that role among the gods in addition to any other divine duties they might have

#

far as i know it is not like mystra where her very life and being is tied to an important concept or structure in the cosmos

meager lotus
#

So are you forced to become basically a replacement for that god? Even if you're diametrically opposed to everything they stand for?

jagged apex
#

the shadowfell existed long before shaar modified it into what it is today, previously it was the plane of shadow, all shaar did was infuse it with negative energy from the negative energy plane

jagged apex
#

the one magical artifact on toril potentially able to do such a thing, literally nobody, at least to my knowledge, has any knowledge about much less where it is, as it was specifically designed to bypass the innate divine protections of a god

#

honestly, most beings, mortal or otherwise would not even try to kill a god unless they wanted to become a god

meager lotus
#

Okay, so that answers everything I was asking, but it gave me another thought. What happens if a god for some reason kills themself? Can they even do that to begin with?

jagged apex
#

gods of the the same concepts in other settings can act very different from one another, so is not like as shar's replacement you'd have to conduct yourself like she would

#

heck the easiest way to kill a god is to basically starve them to death, ie destroying their faith and worship among mortals at a rate to where she will not notice until it is too late

#

but while easiest, does not make it easy itself as it would still prove a difficult task in it's own right, especially for a goddess as ancient and widely worshipped as shar

jagged apex
#

honestly in dnd the gods, even the good aligned ones, are often rather selfish, so would not want to die without good reason

meager lotus
#

Thanks for all that info

calm crest
#

It’s not the Forgotten Realms, but the whole pantheon in the Birthright setting did sacrifice themselves to destroy the god of evil along with themselves. Each deity died and their champions were imbued with divine power, the most loyal of which became a fresh batch of deities while the others became Blooded reagents.

jagged apex
#

though honestly i doubt shar is the kind of goddess that would ever put her life on the line

#

and even when mystra died, Ao chose a replacement, so someone will replace that dead god if the over deity deems their role necessary, even if nobody directly murders that god and replace them, as happened historically in the forgotten realms when mystra had more or less prepped midnight to replace her should she wind up dead, though might have been somewhat unintentionally

#

that the very least that seems to be the implication far as i can tell

feral lintel
#

Is Sefris an actual DnD character or a character just made for MtG's Forgotten Realms set?

slow river
#

Is there precedent of Ghost Dragons being patrons of warlocks?

unkempt merlin
#

i'm not sure about specifically, but they could reasonably behave as a warlock patron yes, most likely for undead

jagged apex
#

seems it was where they first debuted at least

jagged apex
fervent cosmos
#

is there any explaination/reason how/why topaz dragons have reverse wings?

jagged apex
jagged apex
#

so if that still does not add up to you, well that is the only explination we are given in 5e published materials currently

fervent cosmos
#

are gem dragons evil or good by nature?

calm crest
#

They are neutral on the moral spectrum typically.

jagged apex
#

typically neutral

jagged apex
fervent cosmos
#

ah ok

jagged apex
#

the major attributes of gem dragons are typically a body that looks as though it is made of the gemstone they are named after, psionic powers, typically neutral in terms of alignment, solitary, living away from civilization, and caring not for draconic politics, both chromatic and metallic

#

more or less all the gem dragons technically have those as unifying factors historically speaking

fervent cosmos
#

how do they have psionic powers?

jagged apex
#

it is something innate to them

#

in 5e psionics are a specific form of magic, produced purely by one's mind, so effectively they are supernaturally intelligent to the point this manifests as psionic powers and spell like abilities

#

their god, Sardior, was effectively heavily associated with the mind and was the god of all gem dragons, if going by the myth of the first world, it is because when sardior was shattered alongside the first world, he was scattered across the multiverse, and those shards of him became the first gem dragons, with all the gem dragons basically having a portion of Sardior buried in their subconscious

#

so at least in the 5e continuity it could be rooted in that, but is either way effectively just a part of the nature they are born with compared to the other families of dragons

fervent cosmos
#

do psionics still work in anti-magic fields like they did in 3e?

jagged apex
#

not to my knowledge

#

but they can't be counter spelled

#

honestly psionics have historically from what i am aware changed with each edition of the game

fervent cosmos
#

ah i see

jagged apex
#

but it would make no sense for psionics to still work in anti-magic fields in 5e at least far as i am aware, since in 5e they are a form of magic, the reason they can't be counter spelled is cuz the spells are cast via pure thought, so there is no tell tale sign for you to go off of to know they are casting a spell or anything of the sort until after the fact

fervent cosmos
#

i see

unkempt merlin
slow river
#

wrong channel, apologies

#

do we know if a Gem Dragon can become a Ghost Dragon after death?

jagged apex
#

there is nothing that locks the form of undeath to any specific kind of dragon, so far as we know any dragon that meets the requirements described in fizban's could become one

#

though gem dragons do also have a form of undeath unique to them do to their psionic powers, known as a Draconic Shard

jagged apex
woeful dome
#

Anyone know if someone visits Acheron as a living person.... if they die in battle there do they ressurect like all the others locked in the eternal battle? Or do the rules not apply being an outsider of that plane?

jagged apex
#

a mortal person that travels there and does not live there long enough to be transformed by the energies of the plane, will simply die as they would have on the prime material plane, at least as far as i know

analog ruin
#

What are shadow druids?

jagged apex
#

it's a specific druidic order/circle

spare seal
#

I'm trying to make an NPC in Forgotten realms that comes from a terrorist organization using child soldiers. What faction would fit them and what city would they be based in?

jagged apex
#

you are assuming such organizations with that specific trait even exist, plus "terrorist" is arguably more subjective in the forgotten realms than our world

#

far as i know, nobody, let alone an originization in published materials uses child soldiers

spare seal
#

Np, thanks!

rustic vessel
#

Anyone feel like lore dumping on what the deal is with wild magic sorcerer's? Where they come from and why they exist and what the limitations are on their magic?

jagged apex
hazy fox
#

Any idea when the lore for Baldur’s Gate city was published?

sharp owl
#

What do you mean when?

#

Do you mean the first mention of Baldur's Gate? The first dedicated supplement? The most recent bit of lore?

modest badger
#

I think 1990 Forgotten Realm Adventure's might be it's first mention.

hazy fox
modest badger
#

Likely then 1999 Baldur's Gate

#

For things like this I actually tend to use the wiki page and then look through the source at the bottom (CTRL+F/ Find: '198' or '199' tends to quickly find out the earliest dates for FR specific lore, with 1987 being the earliest)

sharp owl
#

@hazy fox Go to the Forgotten Realms wiki, look at the references, and see which one has the earliest date

grim siren
#

Baldur's Gate was further expanded in the 2e FR Campaign Setting, but it got a real deep dive in 1994's Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast, and in 1990's Forgotten Realms Adventures but that has more of a passing reference.

tardy wasp
#

How, like, metaphysical/metaphorical are the Outer Planes? I think the DMG says most of their realms are well beyond the comprehension of material/sensory experience, but then it talks about the dominions of gods like physical (albeit extremely supernatural) places, and stuff like that.

unkempt merlin
#

They are places you can physically go to

cinder cloud
jagged apex
#

is why historically with an extra planar being, their soul and their body are one in the same, unlike us mortals

#

also metaphysical is not the same as metaphorical

#

basically only on the prime material plane to the spiritual/abstract and physical tend to be separate, with the other planes of existence, especially the outer planes, there is little if any difference between the two

tardy wasp
jagged apex
#

well one has nothing to do with the outer planes at all, at least to my knowledge

tardy wasp
#

I was wondering how much talk about the OP’s were metaphors.

Like, when elves talk about the forests of Arvandor, do they actually think there are woodlands in the afterlife? Or would they be pointing to a spiritual truth about the realm of their gods?

jagged apex
#

they know

#

the elves part of their history, at least in the forgotten realms, invovles them being kicked out of their heaven

tardy wasp
#

Oh, that’s right

jagged apex
#

like i said, to my knowledge the outer planes have nothing to do with metaphors themselves, granted one could use them in metaphors, but that is a different matter entirely

sharp owl
finite pendant
jagged apex
#

yeah, they got forests, animals, people, ect..., though rarely something as mundane as you'd find on the prime material planes

#

like there are living evil trees of the lower planes as i recall just as an example

light cradle
#

Can you make a house out of Blight wood and be ok

#

Or will it do evil stuff

jagged apex
#

not to my knolwedge, is not a mere material, is a blights are living evil plant creatures

#

if anything it will likely try to murder you, especially if you are effectively trying to skin it

light cradle
#

Yeah but after you successfully kill it could you use it

#

Like you smash a twig blight to bits can you use it like as compost or fuel , or building materials. or whatever or will it reanimate or give off toxic smoke

#

When it no longer is alive

crude blaze
#

I don't think that's really much of a lore question, but I guess there's nothing that says you can't use blight bodies as wooden materials.

#

That said, nothing says you can either, so it's probably DM fiat.

jagged apex
#

far as i know, most would not take the risk and is likely why we don't have lore on such a specific scenario one way or another, in addition to the above stuff

light cradle
#

Do allimeny changing affects work on creatures as well. Like will a cambion turn good if it lives on bytopia to long or unicorn evil if it stays in the nine hells?

jagged apex
#

to my knowledge yes, if you stay on a plane, other than the prime, long enough you will typically becoming changed by the energies of that plane as they begin to infuse your being

#

this is even touched on with "Planar influences" in the 5e planescape books, cementing the fact it is still a thing even in the current continuity

#

though to my knowledge those two examples you gave clearly would lack important context, as i can not even consider a reason a unicorn might even consider willingly going to the 9 hells and not just trying to leave immediately

willow moon
#

I wanna do something with the negative plane for my campaign, yet I know nothing about it. Any pointers?

#

I've done some research but I want some other opinions

#

Specifically a powerful warlord from there attempting to take over the mortal plane, along those lines.

unkempt merlin
#

that in short, wouldn't really work.

living things don't exactly... survive in the negative energy plane

crude blaze
#

Could always be a death knight who was a warlord in life, and whose spirit tapped into the negative energy plane in an attempt to come back and retake the Material Plane

jagged apex
#

honestly, the much more reasonable sort of middle ground would be to involved the shadowfell, as in the 5e cosmology it is basically do to how shar created it from the previous plane of shadow, makes it a sort of connected plane between the negative energy plane and the prime material plane

light cradle
#

Where do souls come from again in forgot realms

jagged apex
#

forgotten realms, and same place as most other settings, supposidly the positive energy plane, else we don't know

jagged apex
#

honestly, i am almost 90% sure it is not known at all

#

cuz i know we are not informed how Acererak was able to create one with the soul monger

jagged apex
#

and all other cases i can think of at least at the moment are specific to certain myths and legends of particular races or religious faiths in universe

hollow kettle
#

So if we have Tritons that originated from the elemental plane of water
and the aarocokra from Air
what are fire and earth?

jagged apex
#

to my knowledge we have no similar quasi animal humanoids from those elemental planes that are also player races, at least in 5e

feral lintel
#

Azers? Not playable though

jagged apex
#

could be wrong though, i know firenewts are related to lizardfolk and are associated with the plane of fire but that is about it

feral lintel
#

Oh wait, yeah, won't the fire race be the salamanders?

hollow kettle
#

and earth?

jagged apex
#

neither of those are playable ones, but there are such ones, potentially you could count the genasi, but they lack that sort of humanoid animal species thing if you are looking for those similar to tritons and aarocokra

#

honestly, on further though, your question could elaborate a little cuz it could also be viewed as more a mechanical question potentially

hollow kettle
jagged apex
#

being playable does not really relate to lore

feral lintel
#

Genasi are all elements

#

And yeah, mechanics don't always relate to lore

crude blaze
hollow kettle
jagged apex
#

and again, there does not NEED to be nor nessissarily should, that is more a subjective thing

#

yes, if it comes down to things like the rules, playing the game, being playable or not, that is not lore, that is mechanics

hollow kettle
#

sure

jagged apex
static smelt
#

Does anyone know the travel time from Phlan to Melavunt if you took the Phlan Path?

jagged apex
#

it could vary, but if traveling at a normal pace, my personal estimate is a bit over 3 days

#

but kind of blurs the lines into mechanics one could argue, lore wise all we know is the distance

light cradle
#

Do centaurs have a god?

woeful dome
#

Is there anyone who would want to hunt an innocent kobold family? People who hate dragon-kin? Or species of the underdark? Ideally surface dwellers but not a deal breaker

fluid atlas
#

Are planar beings like Angels, Demons, Devils, etc. aware of their innate alignment?

fluid atlas
woeful dome
#

I'm not sure how many beings are aware of alignment to begin with. If they are raised chaotically they will usually act chaotically, and so on. But they don't act that way because they were labelled as such

fluid atlas
woeful dome
#

Just like how people don't walk around with big alignment name tags

feral lintel
fluid atlas
#

Hence why I was wondering if they might be aware of that fact

feral lintel
#

I think the demons page says something about that

woeful dome
feral lintel
fluid atlas
#

Can’t imagine they use the same terms, but it seems plausible to me that devils might know they naturally tend towards evil, or Angels might know they’re lawful by birth

light cradle
woeful dome
feral lintel
#

Celestials arent all L aligned

woeful dome
#

Like a demon raised in constant battle and chaos, they'll know they live in chaos but I don't think anyone is going around giving out membership cards- they feel it around them but I don't think they think "I am personally chaotic and will forever be"

fluid atlas
# light cradle Forgot realms

Centaurs on Faerun don’t pay much attention to the Gods, but some worship Silvanus. Centaurs from Evermeet worship Skerrit.

lament moth
#

Does the dragon rage still occur to this day?

woeful dome
fluid atlas
fluid atlas
lament moth
#

Thank you for the knowledge c:

#

That's scary

jagged apex
#

they are also the god of saytrs

fluid atlas
jagged apex
#

so?

#

he is still their god, not every creator god of a species nessissarily is a promitately worshiped god by them, granted is usually the case, but is by no means some sort of cosmic law

fluid atlas
#

He’s primarily a deity from Oerth, and doesn’t do much outside of there

#

As I mentioned earlier, the only place he’s pretty much ever involved in the FR is Evermeet

jagged apex
#

never heard of nor see him being said to be from there, just that he is worshiped on both toril and oerth

#

but again, none of that changes the fact he is one of their gods, his activities, how widely he is worshiped and other factors like that do not change and often are because of him being their god

#

not being prominent or involved much does not mean one does not exist

fluid atlas
#

I can’t imagine he would have much influence over them

jagged apex
#

again, that is not realy relevant

#

uraniumremix simply wanted to know if the centaurs had a god, which is Skerrit

fluid atlas
#

In the most technically correct kind of way, yeah he’s their deity, but for functional purposes centaurs in the FR are much more associated with someone like Silvanus

jagged apex
#

not really

#

being a druid does not mean you worship a god, let alone the god of nature

#

and just cuz they typically favor other gods to worship does not make them more associated with that god

fluid atlas
#

When Centaurs choose a patron deity, it is almost invariably Silvanus. […] Less often centaurs choose members of the elven pantheon as patrons

-Races of Faerûn, 3.5e

#

Skerrit isn’t mentioned at all there

jagged apex
#

plus you can argue it is fitting since he is associated with centaurs and sayters that venerate neutrality, given they rarely have a heed towards the gods

fluid atlas
#

The sources that mention Skerrit are all either setting agnostic or Greyhawk focused

jagged apex
#

still, he still exists and has worshipers in the forgotten realms, and the gods technically can exist in any setting they have at least 1 or more devout followers, as they mainly reside in the wider cosmos, so unless a setting in question has a self contained cosmology, there is no reason to disregard Skerrit as a god of centaurs

fluid atlas
#

Again, Centaurs are most often associated with Silvanus. I’m making no attempt to disregard Skerrit, I’m simply stating he’s in no way the only or even most common deity

jagged apex
#

i never claimed he was the only or most common

#

just that he was a god that had a direct association with centaurs, all be it specifically ones that venerated neutrality

fluid atlas
#

Otherwise the only source I can see or think of is the Races of Faerûn I cited earlier, which only mentioned Silvanus and a few elven deities that I omitted because I didn’t want to transcribe them

jagged apex
#

does not change any of the things i stated or pointed out, at least far as i know

fluid atlas
#

I’m saying Skerrit, as far as I can see, hasn’t been mentioned in any source related to the Forgotten Realms

#

We can assume he exists there, yes, but the only info we have about him in the FR is that he’s worshipped specifically in Evermeet

jagged apex
#

"The centaurs of Evermeet were an exception to this however, as they openly worshiped the sylvan protector god." cited as being from "Elves of Evermeet" page 29

#

this is from skerrit's page regarding his worshipers, so unless the actual book has addition context, "the sylvan protector god" is reffering to skerrit

fluid atlas
jagged apex
#

i have never heard this to be the case, as far as ia am aware by that point they had already been using forgotten realms as their primary "default" setting

fluid atlas
#

Greyhawk was the default setting of 3e

jagged apex
#

plus Evermeet is specific to the forgotten realms, at least until it was moved to the feywilds

fluid atlas
#

I’m aware? I mentioned that a couple times already

jagged apex
#

either way, i don't see how this changes the answer or the question, since he did not seem to initially specify a particular setting

fluid atlas
#

He did

fluid atlas
jagged apex
#

and even then it could be elaborated further if he was looking for more of a defacto deity kind of figure

#

ah, well again, everything i can find establishes he at the very least has a presence in the forgotten realms

#

honestly does not seem like he is invoked that much either way

jagged apex
#

either way they do have a god, be it Skerrit or Silvanus, unless uraniumremix was specifically wanting a god who is know as "the god of centaurs" like how lolth is the goddess of the drow, grummsh god of the orcs, ect....

light cradle
#

So skerrit created them but they mostly don’t worship or worship Silvanus

jagged apex
#

not really

#

he did not create them

#

at least far as i know

#

he is just the main god known to be specifically associated with centaurs as a species, and even then it is also saytrs and specifically those who venerated neutrality

#

to my knowledge how centaurs came to be is one of those things never fully detailed

light cradle
#

Is the forgotten realms deterministic

feral lintel
#

No

light cradle
#

Then how do the couatl know they gonna die 100 years in advance

unkempt merlin
#

magic

light cradle
#

But the ability to accurately predict an event 100 years into the future implies the universe is deterministic right?

unkempt merlin
#

its just divination

#

thats not necessarily deterministic

feral lintel
#

Seeing the future =/ deterministic

#

Anyway, can a radiant idol be redeemed or reinstated?

jagged apex
#

in theory, i don't see why not, since to my knowledge on a broader note fallen angels can be redeemed in dnd

#

though i am not certain, so unless someone knows with more certainty take my answer with a grain of salt if at all

#

yeah from what i can tell in the eberron book for 5e, seems like that which caused them to fall from grace could be undone, but likely like any angel who has fallen from grace would not be easy

feral lintel
#

Gotcha. I knew that a certain angel was able to be redeemed, so was checking whether that applied to Radiant Idols as well

crude kernel
#

yup, they should be judging on what happened to the one you’re talking about

jagged apex
#

and i am not aware of any specific eberron lore that makes this not the same if not similar case

jagged apex
#

as it seems in eberron radiant idols are hyper specific cases compared to those described in the forgotten realms and other settings

feral lintel
#

Ooh, interesting. What book were they from perchance in 5e?

jagged apex
#

eberron: rising from the last war

feral lintel
#

Ah, ic. No wonder I couldn't find em

rare badge
#

Is Elminster Aumar more powerful than Mordenkainen?

fluid atlas
worldly mason
#

since i'm so lost, do any of you know of officially named devils known to make deals with mortals in 15th century DR? my brain hurts from searching but barely understanding what i'm reading, or else i'd just make my own devil lmao.

crude kernel
#

so in your eyes, who’s stronger the chosen of a deity of a backwater plane like toril or one of the greatest wizards known to all the planes

#

not to discredit elminster, he’s still very powerful, and probably stronger than most player characters, but he probably isn’t as strong as mordenkainen is

crude kernel
#

i think gargauth is a decent example, though he is ||locked away in a shield||

crude kernel
#

so you have zariel, bel, qirozz, dispater, lilis, titivilus, bitru, arioch, biffant, merodach

#

alocer, mammon, glwa, bael, focalor, caarcrinolaas, melchon, fierna, belial, chamo, balan, bathym, gaziel

#

theres more, those are the first 4 layers

grim siren
#

Elminster also knows the ins and outs of Mordenkainen's nind and knows how to manipulate the wizard of Oreth. I would agree that Mordenkainen is the most powerful mortal Wizard on the Prime Material that we know of. Elminster barely constitutes the term Mortal Wizard these days.

Both would more than likely consider themselves equals to each other.

crude kernel
grim siren
#

Technically still yes but he walks around with damn near deific power.

crude kernel
#

he’s been alive for over a millennium, he’s outlived a generation of elves

grim siren
#

Yep there are numerous ways he has extended his life. Including but not limited to body snatching and then polymorphing

crude kernel
#

makes sense

#

he did it kenjaku style

grim siren
#

But he's not immortal in the sense of the Seven Sisters who are just a fact of nature. Mystra just keeps on supporting him.

crude kernel
#

he’s damn near immortal though

#

anyways it’s sleepy time for me

jagged apex
# rare badge Is Elminster Aumar more powerful than Mordenkainen?

i'd imagine so, given in addition to being a powerful archmage, he is also a chosen of the goddess of magic of his world, to my knowledge this is an advantage mordenkainen lacks, though mordenkainen seems less the combative type and more so focuses on his research, else it largely would be speculative or dependent on the writer of what ever story they may be in

#

and despite his level of power, elminster is still mortal

grim siren
#

Elminster has come to Mordenkainen's Aid more times than the other way around.

jagged apex
#

at least last i checked, i know some other powerful mortal mages such as iggwilv have become far more than mortal

#

given what dying technically is, that could potentially have something to do with his long life span even if we were not count the cases where he lost his body/form in some way

#

but that is speculation on my part i will admit, so i could be wrong, so odds are while he will eventually die, between his self healing, assuming he still has that ability, and the support and status as a chosen of the most powerful deity on his world, he is just gunna live a lot longer than most other similar mages

#

though by his own admission apparently this makes some things that are usually a benefit in the eyes of most people, a curse, simply do to that long life even just thus far
"Regardless of the veracity of his memories, El considered his exceptional memory as something of a curse. He couldn't help but remember"
"the death of every friend and loved one, along with every tragedy he could not prevent over the thousand-plus years of his life."
cited as being from "The Herald" page 331 and "Elminster Enraged" (hardcover) pages 316–333.

light cradle
#

Where do you end up if you just keep going straight upward on the material plane assuming needing air isn’t a factor

unkempt merlin
#

Depends on the setting, but for a number of them you would enter wildspace

#

As you leave the planet

light cradle
#

How about forgotten realms specifically?

unkempt merlin
#

You would enter wildspace

grim siren
#

Specifically the Realmspace system

unkempt merlin
#

Assuming by MP you mean Toril

light cradle
#

Yeah Toril

sharp owl
#

For the following settings, you'll enter WIldspace:

  • Dragonlance (Krynn - Krynnspace)
  • Forgotten Realms (Toril - Realmspace)
  • Greyhawk (Oerth - Greyspace)
  • Dark Sun (Athas - Athaspace)

For Eberron, the setting being set within the deep ethereal, it's less defined but Keith Baker (the settings primary designer) has suggested the existence of Siberspace and the ability to visit the dragonshard rings that orbit the world

And for Exandria again it's not really explained/detailed, but official art has depicted the world existing in a space like void similar to wildspace, so there's a possibilty of... I don't know, Exanspace? Critspace? Mercerspace?

light cradle
#

Woah this is cannon to fr I thought this was a spell jammer thing

sharp owl
#

This is all official lore

#

For example, you can fly, via wildspace and the astral sea, in a spelljammer vessel from Oerth to Krynn or Toril

#

"canon" is a complicated word to use in this channel

light cradle
#

I can imagine

sharp owl
#

Now this only applies for the worlds on the material plane

#

For other locales, entirely different set of rules

light cradle
#

So like every star in the sky is like another star system? Which could have its own worlds and stuff?

sharp owl
#

Nope, some stars are the bodies that wildspace systems orbit, some are portals to the positive energy plane where solar dragons make their lairs, and others are the burning corpses of dead gods or astral citadels glinting with refracted magic from the astral sea

light cradle
#

Sweet

#

What happens when you dig straight down?

sharp owl
#

Depends on the world

#

A lot of worlds are spherical, like the Earth

#

They don't all have the same geological makeup though

unkempt merlin
#

In Eberron, you would be liable to dig down into an entrance to a demiplane of Khyber

sharp owl
#

Many have an Underdark; a realm of massive caverns and caves and tunnels that span the world that is a world unto itself

#

Some worlds are hollow

#

Some worlds are discs and you could dig straight through

fathom wagon
#

Also I will never not chuckle at "Siberspace"

jagged apex
#

is like planescape, but rather than a hub between all the planes, is more so focused on connecting the dnd multiverse via their version of space travel

jagged apex
#

and those behave much more like our own sun in our world, at least as far as i can tell

#

but otherwise there are potentially infinite if not near infinite such systems making up the prime material plane, most not known and thus why we only have a hand full as dedicated settings in published materials

#

at least that is my understanding of it

worldly mason
light cradle
#

What is the feydark?

obsidian gate
#

underdark, but in the feywild

light cradle
#

They got the standard fair of creatures?

jagged apex
feral lintel
#

Speaking of which, what is the frostfell?

unkempt merlin
#

In typical dnd cosmology, its the intersection of the Plane or Water and Air, otherwise known as the Plane of Ice

feral lintel
#

Ah, thought it was related to the Shadowfell for a sec

jagged apex
#

no, just happens to have a similar name

#

the other name it is known by, arguably the more technical name is "Para-Elemental Plane of Ice"

#

a para-elemental plane being where two elemental planes for lack of a better term "overalp"

#

the para-elemental planes have alternative names, but as i recall there is no real pattern or naming convention to them

#

like the one of smoke is also known as the "Great Conflagration", magma is also known as the "Fountains of Creation", and the one for ooze is known as the "Swamp of Oblivion"

light cradle
#

When a new god comes into existence does Ao gotta like write their portfolio into the tablets or whatever? And can you just have a portfolio be whatever?

jagged apex
#

they are given a portfolio, presumably by Ao

#

for example, karsus, in the brief time he was a god, was given the portfolio of hubris, really drove home where he went wrong with his grand spell

brittle plank
#

can gods and mortals interact?

feral lintel
#

Yes

#

And they have done so a bunch of times

brittle plank
#

ok ty

#

how do planes work? u cant just be on a plane and then walk over to the shadowfell, right?

feral lintel
#

If you find a portal, you can travel in between them

brittle plank
#

ok ty

#

are the shadowfell and feywild counterparts?

feral lintel
#

Yes, essentially

brittle plank
#

ok ty

iron saffron
brittle plank
#

ok ty

iron saffron
#

The Shadowfell is like the Upside Down world of Stranger Things.

iron saffron
jagged apex
# brittle plank are the shadowfell and feywild counterparts?

more so to the prime material plane than to each other, their respective crossing are where the two planes are the most similar, often in the case of the feywild it will be a place full of an abundance of nature, where as some examples for the shadowfell might be things like a blot of shadow in the corner of a dusty crypt or even an open grave

raw spear
#

is the underdark just a biome or is it how the entire world looks down below?

crude kernel
raw spear
#

so thats why dwarves mine into mountains and not into the ground?

crude kernel
#

probably

fluid atlas
# raw spear is the underdark just a biome or is it how the entire world looks down below?

On Toril, there are massive underground cave systems beneath the surface. It's not one giant cavern, but instead a complex maze of interconnected tunnels and settlements. Certain areas of it magically change on their own, while others are constantly being altered by environmental effects like flowing rivers of lava.

The Underdark is seperated into 3 layers: the Upperdark (the first 3 miles beneath the surface), the Middledark (3-10 miles beneath the surface), and the Lowerdark (10+ miles beneath the surface).

#

It is not uncommon for surface dwellers to stumble into a cave in the Upperdark and interact with some creatures from below, but most of the Underdark's denizens live in the Middledark.

#

And yes, the Feywild and Shadowfell have their own versions of the Underdark (Feydark and Shadowdark, respectively)

foggy seal
fluid atlas
#

We really don't have much information on it, we just know it exists

terse mason
#

Hi everyone. I need some help. Trying to locate Tymanther on a map of Faerun in relation to other known DND areas like Neverwinter or Waterdeep. Now I know Neverwinter is on the Sword Coast and I know Tymanther is Eastern Faerun, but I can't seem to find a map to show me all of Faerun. Is there a well known area or landmark on a map that would help me locate Tymanther?

forest rock
terse mason
#

Thank you so much. This really helps a lot. Exactly what I was looking for.

brittle plank
#

is the raven queen the ruler of the shadowfell?

jolly ivy
#

Are Underdarks something that all worlds (by standard) get, like Shadowfell mirrors, or just some?

verbal bone
#

The underdark is a feature of Toril. Since the Shadowfell is an echo of the prime material plane, there are parts of the shadowfell that echo what’s in the same place in the prime plane.

So where there’s a mountain on Toril in the prime material plane, in the shadowfell there would maybe be a corresponding mountain, or a deep hole, or a volcano or something different, but corresponding.

sharp owl
sharp owl
jolly ivy
#

Grand!

#

Thank you thank you

sharp owl
#

Eberron has Khyber and Dark Sun has Chthonia, both of which are Underdark parallels

verbal bone
#

Hmm. New to me. And they’re all called “The Underdark”?

sharp owl
#

Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, and Exandria have explicit Underdarks

#

Exandria also has the Netherdeep, which is where the depths of the ocean meet the Underdark and the Far Realm

verbal bone
#

I thought it was a specific world feature like a continent with a name.

sharp owl
#

Dragonlance has various isolate cave systems occupied by peoples and kingdoms that parallels the Underdark, but isn't called that

unkempt merlin
#

Eberron also has an underdark but its somewhat dissimilar to it in other settings. There is a lot more portals and demiplanes in it

verbal bone
#

Reading around, it seems 1986 is when TSR started to call hollow earth/drow realms/realms below “the underdark” in publications.

#

Since this was just before Forgotten Realms setting became such an official setting, i mistook it for a named specific place.

#

I had not noticed it being used as the name for an environment type.

brittle plank
#

where are the 9 hells in relation to the material plane

unkempt merlin
#

they aren't anywhere in specific. the locations of the planes are by and large, metaphysical

#

there are different cosmological models to explain where they are "relative" to one another, but neither is necessarily more true

verbal bone
#

“If the Inner Planes are the raw matter and energy that makes up the multiverse, the Outer Planes are the direction, thought and purpose for such construction. Accordingly, many sages refer to the Outer Planes as divine planes, spiritual planes, or godly planes, for the Outer Planes are best known as the homes of deities.

When discussing anything to do with deities, the language used must be highly metaphorical. Their actual homes are not literally "places" at all, but exemplify the idea that the Outer Planes are realms of thought and spirit. “

#

I think the terms “upper” and “lower” are metaphorical too.

jagged apex
#

is at least the same way that heaven and hell are associated with up and down respectively

#

cuz the upper planes do to their association with goodness presumably, are akin to the concepts of heaven, where as the lower planes are more akin to the concepts of well, hell and the underworld and any other sort of afterlife form of punishment

#

honestly there being no actual physical distances or placements as we see them, is probably partly why travel via the astral plane from one plane to another is done at the speed of thought, like there is no direction let alone distance as we would think of it if we were trying to go from one place to another on the prime material plane, closest thing we have is the cosmology model, which is more of a sort of man made duel to help try to understand the cosmos, least as i understand it, is not a actual wheel, like things are technically on an alignment based axis in terms of their positioning rather than any sort of directions

#

plus if i am not mistaken, even when traveling via the astral plane, you still largely have to go through portals to get from one plane to another, just like in some planes when trying to go from one layer to another, making the concept of directions even more meaningless

jagged apex
# verbal bone I think the terms “upper” and “lower” are metaphorical too.

that also gets explained in the section titled "Upper and Lower Planes" which details what makes one qualify as one or the other to quote "The planes with some element of good in their nature are called the Upper Planes. Celestial creatures such as angels and pegasi dwell in the Upper Planes. Planes with some element of evil are the Lower Planes. Fiends such as demons and devils dwell in the Lower Planes. A plane's alignment is its essence, and a character whose alignment doesn't match the plane's experiences a profound sense of dissonance there. When a good creature visits Elysium, for example (a neutral good Upper Plane), it feels in tune with the plane, but an evil creature feels out of tune and more than a little uncomfortable." end quote, from the same section you linked earlier

#

at the very least, the terms "upper" and "lower" are clearly not intended to be literal

#

not entirely sure though if calling them metaphorical would be correct, could be, but i am just not personally sure

verbal bone
#

Scarletsteam, i grasp the Law vs Chaos divide between devils and demons. What are fiends and how do they line up in that division?

feral lintel
#

Not scarlet, but I think fiends represent the evil spectrum

jagged apex
#

they are beings of evil nature

#

as the lower planes where they reside and are native to are of the evil alignment

verbal bone
#

So devils and demons are both fiends?

jagged apex
#

yes

#

fiend is the general term for any being from the lower planes

verbal bone
#

Got it

jagged apex
#

devil and demon in dnd are specific kinds of fiends, with various species onto themselves

feral lintel
#

(Dont forget the yugoloths)

jagged apex
#

yeah, they are the middle men

#

the 3rd major type of fiend, who are neutral evil incarnate, no bias towards law or chaos

verbal bone
#

Ah okay

feral lintel
#

I think there are also just fiends who dont have a classification

jagged apex
#

nope

#

that would be misc. fiends

feral lintel
#

Yeah, thats what i meant by classification, the tag

jagged apex
#

my bad, though you said they, instead of there, misread, but yeah some fiends don't have their own name for their classification

feral lintel
#

Succubi dont, a result of playing both sides iirc

#

And cambions because they can be from both

jagged apex
#

in 5e at least, succubi can be of any sort of fiendish sort, in prior editions i have been told they were tied to one category or another

#

the 5e continuity basically splits the differences by validating all the previous classifications as being true, just not absolute

feral lintel
#

Aye, it was mostly related to their side on the blood war iirc

verbal bone
#

The maelephant is hilarious.

feral lintel
#

Woah, first time hearing of em

jagged apex
#

eh, conceptually maybe, but everything else makes them pretty scary in their own right

verbal bone
#

Maelephants
Large, humanoid fiends with clawed hands and elephant-like heads. They were often employed by more powerful fiends as guardians of treasure.

feral lintel
#

Wait, theyre in 5e?!

#

I need em

jagged apex
feral lintel
#

Ooh, planescape

jagged apex
#

oh, apparently they were also in 2e

#

i feel their 5e incarnation looks the most horrific and fiendish, 3e's version being a close second in my opinion

verbal bone
#

The name undercuts the vibe, imo

feral lintel
#

3e ver gives a different vibe ngl

jagged apex
#

like the 5e incarnation shows them having multiple eyes and fang like bits on the end of their trunks

#

well is clearly ment to be a play on both malevolent and elephant

feral lintel
#

Would they be a counterpart to hollyphants then?

verbal bone
#

Call them something like Garganxxuls and i can buy it. “What’s that evil elephant called again, Stan?” “Ummmmmm. Melephant?l

jagged apex
#

honestly compared to other names of species in the outer planes, i don't see it that humorous let alone enough to undercut their horrific looks and cruelty

#

plus is entirely possible that it is just a name given to them by mortal scholars, as we know some species such as lizardfolk, call themselves something entirely different among themselves

#

and most people are probably only gunna know about these fiends via books or the works of scholars and mages, especially if they have to choose between that and actually confronting one

verbal bone
#

You say horrific looks, i say high school mascot. Potato potato.

jagged apex
#

?

#

the 2e depiction i can agree is rather silly looking, but the other ones, i would not call them silly or anything close to that

feral lintel
#

I do see what Crafter is saying though, they are kinda funny looking

verbal bone
#

Elephant head on human body. He looks like the mascot for University of Alabama.

jagged apex
#

eh, if we stretch the word funny to being strange, i could see it, but otherwise, does not look funny to me

feral lintel
#

Might be my broken sense of humor

jagged apex
feral lintel
#

Ooh, dream eaters are a thing too?

jagged apex
#

no, that is something else

feral lintel
#

Aww

jagged apex
feral lintel
#

Ooh

verbal bone
#

Like i get that most monsters are just like human parts + animal parts.

jagged apex
#

yeah, thing with dnd having creatures from multiple folklores and mythologies, some have to have the name changed else it would reasonably get confusing

feral lintel
#

Yeah, i thought that gorgons would be snake women...

jagged apex
#

the other two are a lot more monsterous to where that description would feel like an over simplification, especially the 5e one

#

like that one the head only vaguely resembles and elephant cuz of the shape and the trunk

verbal bone
#

It’s just for me i would design the creature so that the elephant head was more “oh yeah i guess it DOES kinda resemble an elephant” and not, theme park dumbo.

jagged apex
#

so, basically like they did in 5e? ^^;

feral lintel
#

Yeah, when i was first into DnD, (5e), i got backlash from seeing gorgons as metal bulls

verbal bone
#

Yeah but I’d still go further.

jagged apex
#

cuz else that depiction by no means screems anything resembling dumbo

#

well average examples are just that, average, some probably look even weirder, be it from the lower plane they reside on or any injuries they may have suffered to the face

#

not to mention there is a chance that in the lower planes especially being born with a deformity is not beyond the realm of possibility if i had to guess

jagged apex
verbal bone
#

Probably i’d make it more like the Platybelodon, which looks weirder, despite having been a real animal.

jagged apex
#

i honestly did not know the reason until much later, but i knew that gorgon was in the oldest context i was aware of was what in dnd is called a medusa, but it was not something that really threw me off even or anything, just noticed the name was associated with a different creature than i would have expecting just going off the name alone, which is perfectly fine

verbal bone
#

Make it look like an elephant in the same way Alien looks like a scorpion or ET looks like a turtle.

#

Not cut-paste, which we forgive in folklore-based monsters, sure.

jagged apex
# verbal bone Probably i’d make it more like the Platybelodon, which looks weirder, despite ha...

sounds like a perfect way to set visually an individual apart from the rest in your own games, as even just going by their description that includes info as far back as the fiend folio "Maelephants were vaguely humanoid in shape, standing 9 ft tall and weighing 800 lb. They were bewildering creatures but nonetheless terrifying, with oversized hands tipped with vicious claws. Their massive heads resembled those of elephants with smaller eyes, ears, teeth and mouths. They had rheumy, red eyes and a serpentine trunk ending in a long, narrow spike."

#

lot of room for freedom even when sticking to those general features

jagged apex
verbal bone
#

Sure. And then there’s the name. “Stan, what did you name that man-elephant again? Maelephant?”