#dnd-lore

1 messages · Page 16 of 1

calm crest
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Any other setting, the average commoner hasn’t travelled the planes, but a Cager of Sigil probably has.

upbeat forum
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I'm currently working on a campaign in a Forgotten Realms setting where both the cult of the dragon and the church of Tiamat will have an important role. Now I thought it would be interesting if there would be a kingdom where a green dragon in it's human form would have somehow sneaked into the government and slowly corrupts it from the inside. The cult of the dragon would then try to make that dragon join them. Now my question is, what would be a suitable city/kingdom where this could be happening?

molten osprey
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Vancouver

upbeat forum
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I forgot to specify I was talking about forgotten realms

calm crest
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(Although Vancouver is canonically accessible in FR lore, just not located on Toril, given Elminster’s planet-hopping shenanigans.)

upbeat forum
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Yes, but I need a location on Toril

calm crest
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I could see a dragon secretly becoming a Masked Lord of Waterdeep, I guess.

vital heron
calm crest
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That’s the Staff’s job.

upbeat forum
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So the dragon will wield the dragonstaff

vital heron
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Which is...ahem...accounted for in lore.

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Tbh I wrote out the dragonward from my world because its annoyingly inconsistent with other bits of the lore, and I just...didn't need it.

upbeat forum
vital heron
upbeat forum
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I think I‘ll need to expand my forgotten realms lore knowledge a lot to run this campaign - do you have some recommendations where I should start? Like some books I should read or something

calm crest
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I suppose even “permanent” magical effects don’t last forever, and the Dragonward may wear down over time.

sterile breach
vital heron
calm crest
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Although "randomly unaffected dragon" kinda feels like a lore way of saying that it made a difficult saving throw.

upbeat forum
molten osprey
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it's 5e, Dragon used it's legendary save and laughed at the ward

unkempt merlin
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Not how the ward works

serene crater
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quick question for an infernal and fey contract, if you put an alias on the contract, is it still binding

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I had a situation in which an infernal and fey contract were both signed with alias names

iron saffron
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Devils will make sure you sign your real name. Besides the binding of the contract isn't a court of law but the multiverse itself — you are bound to it regardless if you just sign it with an "X"

crude blaze
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I was in a campaign once with a Fiendlock who signed a different name from her own, and as a result her name was changed, on a cosmic level, to the fake name she signed

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Just a fun little anecdote, but yeah. Devils are gonna make sure to hold you to your word.

calm crest
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I also imagine that fey deals are typically more about an oral agreement followed by a handshake and a wink or whatnot than the nuances of what someone put on parchment.

white ravine
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Plus, an immortal devil or fey would have their own stipulations to prevent any of those hiccups by the time you get to them

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If your DM can guess up a loophole within 1 week, it's probably been patched by the devil.

molten osprey
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I've always treated a devil's contract as a manifestation of LAW and any attempt to lie just doesn't work. the ink just won't stick

white ravine
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It's fun to let em try and get called out by the devil at least

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Especially if the devil is being honest with the deal (as they should be)

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"Now who's in the wrong here?"

covert island
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If you want a good lawyer in D&D summon a devil xD

iron saffron
white ravine
molten osprey
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The Blake Clark character in Little Nicky

rough fractal
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Hey guys, how did the high level of magic the Netherese had affect its common folk? Was it closer to Eberron wide magic where most people had some common magic items and a little bit of spellcasting?

iron saffron
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There were even more of a hermit wizard nation than Halruaa

rough fractal
north vault
# rough fractal Hey guys, how did the high level of magic the Netherese had affect its common fo...

There is little official material on that but we can infer a few things:

  • Netheril was not an empire heavily concerned with the lives of the lower classes. The arcanists had everything, everyone else had their scraps. The common folks were everything from freemen to slaves. Netheril is based on the roman empire, more or less.
  • That means that we can expect a giant gulf between the arcanists and the commoners. The lives of the commoners were likely not very different, or even worse, than in the "modern" days.
rough fractal
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Oh wow, that's incredibly dissapointing. I thought the whole point of the Netherese is it was the great height society once rose to in the Realms

iron saffron
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Halruaans are the descendants of Netherese and they look down on non-wizards.

north vault
rough fractal
rough fractal
north vault
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Basically, Netheril was the Roman empire if the patricians had access to magic. It's only luck that the entire world didn't burn down.

iron saffron
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Some of the Netherese did survive by planeshifting their city (cities?) to the Shadowfell.

north vault
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Yes indeed! One city at the very least was in the Shadowfell. 4e lore. Personally, I think 4e was a very bad time to be a Forgotten Realms enjoyer, but there were some good ideas during that period

iron saffron
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I've ignored most of the 4E FR lore, which is easy considering that 5E retconned a lot of it

rough fractal
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Man, I was hoping that the grief the party would feel would be at what great things the world lost, not at the awful state of things in the past

north vault
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A bastion of tolerance, one of the first attempts at friendship and collaboration between dwarves, elves and humans.

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The fall of Netheril is a tragedy, but maybe it was for the best. The fall of Illefarn was just a horrific tragedy.

rough fractal
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I've never heard of Illefarn! I'll start looking!

north vault
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In the same way, Myth Drannor, and the other ancient elvish civilisations, post-crown wars era, were genuinely great places to live.

unkempt merlin
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found the Harper

north vault
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The Imaskari were far more enthusiastic slavers than the Netherese ever were, so they're worse. But their leaders were called artificer lords, they were great golem builders.

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During the crown wars, the elves were at their worst though. At least one dynasty of sun elves was entirely corrupted by agents of the Nine Hells

north vault
north vault
# rough fractal I've never heard of Illefarn! I'll start looking!

Illefarn is kind of central to the videogame Neverwinter Nights 2 where the plot involves a guardian they created to defend themselves against Netherese aggression. A creature directly connected to the Weave of magic. When the weave burned down, thanks to Karsus, he turned toward the Shadow Weave and became a being of madness and necromancy, with a certain part of responsibility of the fall of Illefarn.

rough fractal
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Holy cow

north vault
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The plot of Neverwinter Nights 2 is kind of all over the place. You take that, you add the Silver Sword of Gith, Githyankis, warlocks, demons, devils, Luskanian-Neverwinter politics...

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But it is interesting.

white ravine
magic jackal
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Yeah, Netheril was a Magocracy with class distinctions between those who could use magic and those who couldn't.

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it was so extreme, there were distinct language dialects, Loross for the mage class, and Netherese for the non-magical class.

grim siren
upbeat forum
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Is a chromatic dragonborn loyal to the chromatic dragons or otherwise bound to them? (I have a new player who’d like to play a character with inner conflicts and his idea is a dragonborne paladin with chromatic ancestors)

modest badger
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A dragonborn's heritage doesn't have to affect them at all, besides what resistances and breath weapons it gives them.

For many Dragonborn, they might not even track that, because they're very mixed and it's not important to them. But either way a 'chromatic' dragonborn can serve any deity they like, including bahamut, and vice versa.

Also Dragonborn don't tend to serve any dragons nowdays.

Grabbin some quotes.

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PHB, 5e:

Shaped by draconic gods or the dragons themselves, dragonborn originally hatched from dragon eggs as a unique race, combining the best attributes of dragons and humanoids. Some dragonborn are faithful servants to true dragons, others form the ranks of soldiers in great wars, and still others find themselves adrift, with no clear calling in life.

The first dragonborn had scales of vibrant hues matching the colors of their dragon kin, but generations of interbreeding have created a more uniform appearance. Their small, fine scales are usually brass or bronze in color, sometimes ranging to scarlet, rust, gold, or copper-green.

The blood of a particular type of dragon runs very strong through some dragonborn clans. These dragonborn often boast scales that more closely match those of their dragon ancestor-bright red, green, blue, or white, lustrous black, or gleaming metallic like gold, silver, brass, copper, or bronze.

So PHB dragonborn lore implies vague origins (There are multiple possible origins for Dragonborn in 4e, and dragonborn might have different beliefs in universe). Some of these origins imply that dragonborn were servants of dragons (Some even imply forced servitude). It says some clans might have lineages more connected to a certain colour, but many are mixed lineage.

No where does it say that lineage influences morality or alliegences, because it shouldn't. That is not how that works.

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FTD:
Draconic Races

“It's all too easy to prefer a certain color of dragonborn, but what's inside is what really matters—which is to say, the sort of damage their breath can do to you.”— Fizban
The dragonborn race in the Player's Handbook is the most direct way to reflect a character with dragons somewhere far back in their ancestry. But for players who want to try a more nuanced approach, this section offers three variant dragonborn race options that can be used to create a character with clear connections to a specific draconic ancestry

Chromatic Dragonborn:

Dragonborn with chromatic ancestry claim the raw elemental power of chromatic dragons. The vibrant colors of black, blue, green, red, and white dragons gleam in those dragonborn's scaled skin and in the deadly energy of their breath weapons. Theirs is the raw elemental fury of the volcano, of biting arctic winds, and of raging lightning storms, as well as the subtle whisper of swamp and forest, toxic and corrosive.
Note again- no mention of allegiances, morality or so on. Their lineage only affects their elemental nature and some abilities.

jagged apex
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lore wise in general, is it known if a Half Dragon become another part Half Dragon?

modest badger
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As in.. become full dragon?

iron saffron
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In reality, usually the offspring of two different species are sterile, such as a mule (bred from a male donkey and a female horse).

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I doubt that if a tigon and a liger bred will produce a full tiger (or lion).

calm crest
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With some exceptions, such as parthenogenetic hybrid reptiles.

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Granted, dragons aren’t reptiles, and half-dragons definitely aren’t. (Except maybe dracolisks and the like.)

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Although, Fizban’s does note that many half-dragons aren’t literally sired by a dragon.

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Which if the Fizban’s half-dragon origins are to be believed, there’s no reason that one creature couldn’t have gotten the trait multiple times from more than one source.

calm crest
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So I’m curious—I know that multiple tarrasques have been slain in Forgotten Realms lore (given that Karsus already needed one’s pituitary gland, for example), but has a dead tarrasque ever canonically been harvested for the 10d10 diamonds and 1d4 meteoric iron/adamantine shields of +5 enchantment? Or has it been established that this property of the tarrasque was purely mythological on Toril? Or is this simply a case of the lore being solely determined by the edition being played given that the tarrasque has appeared in FR modules both before and after it lost this feature?

unique bough
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why was circle of moon druids called moon druids, specfically is it like they gain their enhanced wildshape from the moon itself

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i'm doing a backstory for a campign for the archdruid

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i'm wondering how one becomes a moon druid

unkempt merlin
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They are called moon druids because the moon in the history of real life is associated with change and magic, often with a specific connection to shapeshifters across various mythologies.

magic jackal
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I mean we've got a million half-species running around which can reproduce

merry belfry
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yeah but don't only humans + X make a half-species?

iron saffron
iron saffron
merry belfry
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I mean half-elves can have half-elf children but is there lore about what child an elf and an orc will have?

iron saffron
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Ogrillon are half-ogre/half-orc.

iron saffron
unkempt merlin
molten osprey
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That's one of the pluses of Glorantha, races have diferent physyology, no crossbreeding possible

cyan glen
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they should be called species rather than races

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if thats the case

molten osprey
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..then they have ducks =/

severe storm
zenith dust
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It's also fantasy so real world genealogy and biology doesn't matter

modest badger
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In D&D species isn't really accurate either and has it's own baggage but that's more a discussion for #1026901431132885064 and the potential choice to use 'Species' instead of 'races' moving forward.

In general there's no rules saying who can mix or not. Old AD&D had a line saying orcs could have children with nearly anything but specifically not elves, but that was later dropped. Most mixes in D&D focus on those with human heritages, because D&D was very humanocentric (as was fantasy in general). That's one of the issues behind the terminology of 'Half-elf' because it assumes the 'other half' is human, and that 'elf' is the unusual part to be remarked on.

Officially there have been mention of other mixed heritage beside just human/X. Some quotes from early books (Warning for some unsavory and outdated language used to describe and talk about these mixes)

Monster Manual, 1e:

Half-Orcs: As orcs will breed with anything, there are any number of ||unsavory mongrels|| [individuals] with orcish blood, particularly orc-goblins, orc-hobgoblins, and orc-humans. Orcs cannot cross-breed with elves.
(2e MM essentially says the same. This isn't repeated in later editions).

Dwarves Deep, 1990, 2e, p.7:

Humans, gnomes, and halflings are cross-fertile with dwarves. Elminster says elves and dwarves can have issue as well.

There is also the really poorly named '||Mongrelmen' / Mongrel folk||, that reappeared in 5e even, although they go from being demonised heavily mixed heritage people, to being magically transformed people:
AD&D:

||Mongrelmen ||are a mixture of the blood of many species: humans, orcs, gnolls, ogres, dwarves, hobgoblins, elves, bugbears, bullywugs, and many others

5e, COS:

||Mongrelfolk|| are humanoids that have undergone, or whose ancestors underwent, horrific magical transformations, to the extent that they retain only a fraction of their original being.

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In general the game didn't want to go into making mechanics for all of these (and really shouldn't, for multiple reasons), so kept it limited to human/X for the most part.

Now you have custom lineage from tasha's which allows for pretty much any combination your DM allows, and in OneD&D you are free to say your PC is any mix of 'species', but you pick one mechanically and then your PC decides for themself how to indentify.

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Oh wait- on the 5e version of ||mongrelfolk|| it's actually just as bad honestly, missed this bit:

Horrific Offspring. It's possible to restore a|| mongrel||-folk to its original form using a greater restoration spell, but the same can't be said for a ||mongrel||folk's offspring. Only ||mongrel||folk that are made by magic can be restored to their original forms. ||Mongrel||folk that are born are true ||mongrel||folk and not the subjects of a spell or an effect that can be undone.
||Mongrel||folk can breed with other humanoids, but nearly all children born to such parents are|| mongrel||folk. (About one child in every hundred is born looking like its non-||mongrel||folk parent.)

Glad... we got that lore in there. yay.

rich creek
iron saffron
jagged apex
# calm crest So I’m curious—I know that multiple tarrasques have been slain in Forgotten Real...

not to my knowledge as it's regeneration canonically is strong but at a slow rate, far more than anything with the regeneration trait in 5e, likely why in my opinion it is not a part of the average statblock for the tarrasque as statblocks are specifically ment for combat purposes, but short of a wish spell it will ALWAYS regenerate canonically, and even then will resume as soon as another wish spell is used to no longer supress the regeneration

final lichen
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Besides what's written in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical, do we know anything more about Mystra's Well of Spells? I can't find much more info.

vague comet
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Reading dnd lore makes me feel stupid

golden fiber
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So here is my question... after this move in recent years to make great strides in changing the lore of dnd in general to create the idea that there are no inherently evil races any more... how will Phandelver and Below treat the orcs and goblins that you interact with as it seems that these groups of races are your direct enemies from time to time?

spark haven
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It's about essentialism. People don't have evil in them, they do evil things

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that these groups of races are your direct enemies from time to time
Sure, they want food, water, a good life just like we do. Some groups of people decide that having those things is worth depriving other people of them

golden fiber
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Is WoTC changing the Lore so these races are less "primal and savage" in the Realms or are they still the same? I suppose in places like Waterdeep or Neverwinter, there is some sort of "greenskin" population, but in more frontier places, where life is more hardscrable, all if not most races and populations are more primal anyway?

spark haven
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I think it'd lean away from words like "savage"

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At least for describing entire races

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This is distinct from individual characters being racist, mind you

iron saffron
# golden fiber So here is my question... after this move in recent years to make great strides ...

D&D is creationist in that gods created their people in their image. The various sentient/sapient species tend to follow after their gods (and I emphasis the word "tend") but not bound by them. Sure elves tend to be CG, dwarves tend to be LG, etc but they can be whatever alignment the players/DM deems them to be.

In 3.5E the alignment in the monster statblocks used "often" and "sometimes" for most creatures and used only "always" for creatures from the outer planes like demons and devils (even then there are always exceptions to the rules).

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So those orcs who follow Gruumsh tend to be more war-like as that god cherished war over everything else. However, there are orcs who didn't follow the path of Gruumsh and actually turned their backs on his teachings, such as the ondoni orcs (they followed the teachings of the LG goddess Eldath, the deity of peace and quiet places).

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The orc king Obould Many-Arrows made peace with the human and dwarves of the Spine of the World and set up the Kingdom of Many Arrows. I believe when he died Gruumsh elevated him to basically a saint.

golden fiber
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I thought Many Arrows was a fairly constant antagonist for Drizzt in several books?

iron saffron
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Yes but that's on the individual level. Eventually he decided it was for the best for his people to settle down.

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In Forgotten Realms, the orcs aren't native to Toril. They came from another world via portal (Warcraft "borrowed" this idea too...).

golden fiber
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a thought I just had was, I feel like Phandelver and Below is maybe a good adventure to play though for ppl who have watched Honor Amoung Thieves as it take place close to Neverwinter?

iron saffron
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Back in 2E (either in Deities & Demigods or Monster Mythology), Gruumsh justified his people raiding the other races because he felt slighted when the world was created (in the orcs' creation story). When the world was divided, the elven gods picked the forests for their people, the dwarven gods picked the mountains for their people, the gnomish gods picked the hills for their people, the halfling gods picked the valleys for their people, and the human gods picked everywhere else. Gruumsh was angry and felt that the other creator gods rigged the drawing of the lots, cheating the orcs of a place of their own. He cast his mighty spear into the forests, the mountains, the hills, the valleys, and everywhere, saying that those are the places the orcs will inherit the world as revenge for him being cheated.

iron saffron
serene crater
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quick question but what would happen if a demon lord managed to sucessfully take over a part of the feywild? (particularly Zuggtmoy)

spark haven
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Presumably, a bunch of demons would show up, make life hard for people, and then eventually a brave band of heroes would clear them out. Or the heroes never show up and it's just one of those awful places you don't want to go to.

iron saffron
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Well a demon lord wouldn't get any special connection to the Feywild like it would with a layer of the Abyss.

magic jackal
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depends what method they use to take it over I suppose

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the feywild has numerous planar rulers right? there's the seelie and unseelie court god-archfey and then there's the rulers of the domains of delight right (although I'm unsure if they count as planar rulers)

unkempt merlin
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Demiplanar rulers, more akin to Darklords

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Who aren't necessarily rulers but still...

iron saffron
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The Feywild has archfeys such as Queen Titania and King Oberon of the Seelie Court and the Queen of Air and Darkness of the Unseelie Court. They are essential deities.

Then there are actual fey deities, like Skerrit, the god of the centaurs, Fionnghuala, the goddess of the swanmays, and Emmantiensien, the god of the treants.

serene crater
magic jackal
iron saffron
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The Feywild is like an echo of the Material Plane. Taking over the Feywild is like trying to take over the Material Plane: good luck.

magic jackal
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What I mean is wouldn't they be able to deny full planar invasion?

spark haven
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here's the thing: it's a fantasy setting

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cataclysms happen

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if the question is "is it possible something really awful could happen here?" the answer is yes

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that's the whole point, awful things happen and someone steps in to fix it

iron saffron
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Could it happen? Sure, you're the DM.

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And we're straying away from the point of this channel...

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Official D&D lore is has it happened?

magic jackal
spark haven
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Yes, it does, because multiple world ending, world resetting catacylsms have happened

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that's the whole point of the stories existing

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There's loads of precedents

magic jackal
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That's really not a good argument

spark haven
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It's not a very good line of questioning

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¯_(ツ)_/¯

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and, off topic in this channel

magic jackal
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You're straying off topic lol

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We're talking about lore, and I'd like to get back to it

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So, back on topic:

Do the deities and certain archfey of the feywild count as planar rulers for the purpose of preventing invasions from other planes?

ember elbow
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Is it only demons that reform in the abyss or fiends in general?

Eternal Evil. Outside the Abyss, death is a minor nuisance that no demon fears. Mundane weapons can’t stop these fiends, and many demons are resistant to the energy of the most potent spells. When a lucky hero manages to drop a demon in combat, the fiend dissolves into foul ichor. It then instantly reforms in the Abyss, its mind and essence intact even as its hatred is inflamed. The only way to truly destroy a demon is to seek it in the Abyss and kill it there.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/mm/monsters-d#Demons

We just completed an Adventure League epic and the creature was a fiend in the Astral plane.

My goal is to figure out if we can summon him in AL and planar bind him if we've already destroyed him in the Astral Plane. It doesn't say "demon".

Spawned in the Infinite Layers of the Abyss, demons are the embodiment of chaos and evil — engines of destruction barely contained in monstrous form. Possessing no compassion, empathy, or mercy, they exist only to destroy.

It also says in the epic it is an engine of sorts... so that is coincidentally odd. Not quite the same.

The Anomaly is a Far Realm artifact the neogi took from Xorvintroth. The Harpers need it to nullify the other Far Realm artifice there. While experimenting with the Anomaly, the neogi great old master and Xissix attached it to the Engine, a huge eldritch machine, which unintentionally created a localized multiplanar disturbance and shifted Journey’s Legg onto the Astral Plane. The Engine and the Anomaly have achieved a symbiotic alien sentience and act in self-defense.

I'm looking to put together a huge party to gate it and planar bind it. Even if I may never be able to actually call upon it in games.

magic jackal
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If so, the only lore-supported means by which one could conduct such a thing would be killing them first (and then you'd have much bigger problems) or somehow wresting planar rulership away (which would probably also be met by overdeity intervention no?)

magic jackal
ember elbow
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I'm not entirely sure if he is a demon. 😦

iron saffron
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Demons are spawn by the Abyss itself.

ember elbow
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He probably isn't then...

iron saffron
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Each of the Lower Outer Planes have their own native fiends.

ember elbow
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I'm going to then assume we killed it and it is no more... another question then... can a god bring it back?

magic jackal
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I mean, probably, depends on the God I suppose

iron saffron
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Fiends that are killed outside of their native plane will reform eventually (probably as at a lower rank).

Fiends that are killed on their home plane tend to be killed permanently.

white ravine
ember elbow
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Level 20 Death Cleric calling upon Myrkul ... who I guess has less power...

white ravine
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Myrkuls more about making corpses than raising them, right?

...Or is Bhaal murder

ember elbow
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The fiend was killed on the Astral Plane but I'm not sure how that works because the starting portion was from another plane. Myrkul is definitely a Necromancer lol

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Lord of Bones and grim reaper like. Bhaal was killing, yes.

magic jackal
iron saffron
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The fiend's essence goes back to its native plane to reform.

ember elbow
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Tyrany I think...

white ravine
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Tyranny is Bane, i know that much

ember elbow
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I'm probably getting the words wrong... Bhaal has a lot of assassins that Bane got killed lmao

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During the whole tablet stealing thing... Myrkul technically killed them all for Bane...

white ravine
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At least for demons

ember elbow
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Hmm... can I give the name of the creature and re-give some info?

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I "don't think" it is from the Astral plane.

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One moment

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Name of Creature:
||The Engine or Rak Tulkhesh||
||The Anomaly is a Far Realm artifact the neogi took from Xorvintroth. The Harpers need it to nullify the other Far Realm artifice there. While experimenting with the Anomaly, the neogi great old master and Xissix attached it to the Engine, a huge eldritch machine, which unintentionally created a localized multiplanar disturbance and shifted Journey’s Legg onto the Astral Plane. The Engine and the Anomaly have achieved a symbiotic alien sentience and act in self-defense.||

I'm not sure if he is a demon but he is a huge fiend and neutral evil. It sounds like originally it came from another plane. Then it got a battery attached to it and got more powerful.

Would "previous" Lord of the Dead, currently Lord of Decay, Bones, The Reaper, etc.., potentially be able to bring it back? With Divine Intervention
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Myrkul

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Adventure League is kind of weird on time... you can kind of go back and forth. So time isn't entirely an issue.

iron saffron
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Rak Tulkhesh is from Eberron. I have no idea who it crossed the streams and got the Harpers (from Faerun of the Forgotten Realms) involved.

ember elbow
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Yeah... that is confusing. I have no clue why Forgotten Realms fought it.

iron saffron
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Where is this from?

ember elbow
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||DDAL-DRWEP04 Tears Among the Stars||

iron saffron
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¯_(ツ)_/¯

ember elbow
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Idk, I'm just wondering if I can call upon it via Gate and have like 6-7 others help me planar bind it only to never use it. 😂

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I mean, I may try to, but I'm assured most DMs wouldn't allow it.

iron saffron
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This is out of the realms of this channel then. Ask your DM.

ember elbow
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Basically, any AL DM then?

iron saffron
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We just answer lore questions of what has happened in official lore, not what if.

ember elbow
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hmm okay, I appreciate the help, though!

iron saffron
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I don't play AL so I don't know.

unkempt merlin
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I don't believe AL follows strictly canon lore either, Rak Tulkhesh in official lore is the Overlord known as the Rage of War in Eberron

ember elbow
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Lol, second question. Sorry.
Do you guys think Myrkul, Crown Prince of Murghôm, Lord of Bones, Old Lord Skull, The Reaper, The Deathless Lord of Death, and Necromancer. (Formerly Lord of the Dead which now belongs to Kelemvor.) would be able to bring back a fiend from the dead, or what it was. Or recharge the battery it had?... it is confusing.

I have a character that is a Lv20 Death Cleric of Myrkul and has been trying to convert people to follow to Myrkul. I have two people characters on my list now, that is exciting. Trying to get him back to his former glory.

magic jackal
#

I think it depends on the Fiend

#

Devils and Demons which die outside of their native plane immediately begin to resurrect in their native plane, so that's probably a no.

#

I think Greater Yugoloths follow a similar process.

#

That said, maybe lesser Yugoloths actually die.

#

And then there's myriads of other Fiends which don't fall under those categories, such as Rakshasa, certain Succubi, (one of the Hag types, I don't remember which, maybe Night?)

#

and they vary in the extreme, there's no specific rule they follow.

magic jackal
ember elbow
white ravine
magic jackal
#

Oh, Ral Tulkesh?

#

I don't know that much about the cosmology of Eberron

ember elbow
#

Yes, and he'd certainly put it to use trying to get more followers of Myrkul. 😂 But yeah, I'm not sure.

white ravine
#

Also, Ral Tulkhesh is Eberron and Myrkul is very much not so that's a barrier immediately

#

Its like asking if someone can do CPR on your dog from two houses down

ember elbow
#

The plan is to planar bind it with a lot of other people helping. For whatever reason, in Adventure League, a DM made an epic which has Ral Tulkhesh in it in Forgotten Realms.

white ravine
#

That's the can of worms of how Eberron is placed in the cosmology

#

Which is the fact that Eberron exists inside of the Forgotten Realms' Ethereal Plane, just magically blocked off by the Ring of Siberys.

#

A little microcosm.

ember elbow
#

o_O I've never played an Eberron game so... that is a lot to take in lol

white ravine
#

Yeah...

#

It's not impossible to get past the Ring, but it's unbelievably difficult to

ember elbow
#

I will say I don't think Myrkul would do CPR. Do demons or fiends in Eberron not go to the nine hells or abyss?

magic jackal
#

There's not much info regarding demons or devils in Eberron

ember elbow
#

It sounds like an up to the DM thing again. 😦

magic jackal
#

Suffice to say the answer is more or less shrug, probably not

#

Yep

ember elbow
#

okay

white ravine
#

...I think?

magic jackal
#

I don't know if they respawn there or not

ember elbow
#

Well, if its essence is somewhere... hm

white ravine
#

Sorry, I got it now.

ember elbow
#

I'll find someone to help and probably never use it if we do survive. Thank you both!

magic jackal
#

I think it's that during a really early creation war one of the three founding dragons spat them out and they ruled the world then fought the dragons(?) for millions of years?

white ravine
#

It's a place called 'Khyber'. Effectively an underdark type situation where fiends live.

magic jackal
#

Khyber is the Dragon no?

white ravine
#

Yup.

#

Supposedly, the underdark of Eberron is uhhh...also that.

#

Not just in name. Eberron's weird.

#

Im probably butchering this dndLol

magic jackal
#

Still unclear if they respawn 💀

ember elbow
#

I'm lost at the dragons spitting living things out.

magic jackal
#

Progenitor Dragons

#

Think Dragon Shaped Gods.

ember elbow
#

😮 There is a dragon named Eberron?!

magic jackal
#

No

#

Khyber, Siberys and uh

#

Wait is it Eberron?

#

Yeah huh apparently it is.

#

Yep so Eberron is the filling of a Dragon Sandwich

ember elbow
#

Wait, so the three dragons kind of all became Eberron...

#

😂

magic jackal
#

Yeah that's funny and confusing

crude blaze
#

In fairness, that’s their mythology. That the three progenitor dragons (Eberron, Siberys, and Khyber) all became the planet itself.

ember elbow
#

Ooh, Tiamat is in Eberron kind o...

crude blaze
#

Is it true? Up to the DM.

ember elbow
#

True

white ravine
#

I dont think anyone is qualified to talk about eberron here dndLol

#

Quickly, make up stuff before the eberron fans arrive

crude blaze
#

A lot of that lore is designed to be up to DM interpretation.

#

The gods of the different pantheons only exist if the DM says so, the source of the Mourning is up to the DM, etc.

ember elbow
#

It sounds basically like how there are multiple ways humans came into creation and there is potentially one prominent theory type situation. But doesn't make it true.

crude blaze
#

Yeah, a lot of that Eberron lore is designed to be discovered through play, but again, it’s also intended to be dependent on the DM.

severe storm
#

Eberron was vwey pointed in giving only vague answers about definitive facts

ember elbow
#

:/ And all of this is in a ring (which is also potentially Siberys) and somehow we in FR had to fight a huge fiend from said ring. Coming from a different plane makes sense. The rest feels odd.

severe storm
#

Mourning is a giant arcane nuke? Sure! Was it caused by a God giving the Warforged souls? Could be! Is that living true resurrection spell the cutest thing you've ever seen? Well that one's a definite yes

ember elbow
#

I legit have a headache reading about Eberron. I'm going to take my answer as maybe Myrkul could (but would he?) as a yes, and that ?potentially this creature is reformed ... inside of a ring on another plane.

#

Thank you guys lol

mild oar
#

Neverwinter never settled Maztica, correct? It was just Baulder's Gate, Waterdeep and Amn.

crude blaze
#

iirc Neverwinter never settled any place other than Neverwinter. The major cities of the Sword Coast are independent city-states.

#

Could be wrong.

unkempt merlin
# magic jackal There's not much info regarding demons or devils in Eberron

There is quite a lot actually for demons and devils (and fiends in general) in eberron. The general concepts of demons and devils is pretty much the same as in other settings. With Demons being Chaos and Evil and Devils being Law and Evil.

The big thing with them (and fiends in general, as well as celestials) is in regards to their plane of origin. Eberron uses the concept of native fiends/celestials for a wide variety of them (Rakhasha being the most prominent in the world). But demons/devils/fiends/celestials can all be natives to other planes in Eberron as well. Ex: you can have a Pit Fiend of Fernia who is a devil who is about the death and evil aspects of fire; potentially making deals in those regards, while a Pit Fiend of Shavarath would be about the fear and strength of leading the infernal legions. And then fiends (devils and demons included) of Khyber are much more "traditional" fiends. So a Pit Fiend of Khyber could represent any of the classic things they do, like Cruelty, Tyranny, Greed, etc

magic jackal
#

I'm not an Eberron expert but nothing I found gave a clear answer about that particular question

mild oar
unkempt merlin
magic jackal
#

Ah okay, where can I find a source on that?

unkempt merlin
#

Despite the term "native fiends", many originate from heart (linked to an overlord) or shadow (linked to a concept) demiplanes. Which allows them to reform

#

as for a source... gimme a bit. Eberron lore is a bit... scattered. Doubly so with Kanon

magic jackal
#

Well Rak Tulkhesh is an Overlord in and of himself

unkempt merlin
#

Exploring Eberron does go into the concept of the heart demiplanes however

magic jackal
#

So that's an extra whole pile of confusion on top of that

unkempt merlin
#

Ral Tulkhesh in the context of above is... as a short answer, literally impossible.

#

Which considering the context is a random AL thing in the Forgotten Realms.... makes it doubly so

magic jackal
#

Yeah that's what we pretty much concluded too

crude blaze
woeful canyon
#

Delving into the lore but I'm fairly old and new and was wondering if anyone knows of a situation where a corpse candle could communicate with the host as a parallel personality within the host and not just the visions.

iron saffron
#

What's a corpse candle? Are you referring to the spell?

woeful canyon
#

Ravenloft, I think

iron saffron
#

I can't find it in a google search.

woeful canyon
iron saffron
#

2E Ravenloft?

woeful canyon
#

Aye

iron saffron
#

I have that MC. Sec I'll look.

woeful canyon
#

I've a small group and going down to two, with two very new players and I was hoping I could justify the use of one as a guide, maybe sidekick, etc. I may just have to fudge a bit of the existing on it to accomplish but wanted to be faithful to the game much as I can so they have a good experience.

iron saffron
#

2E monsters are very light in their lore unless they're covered by Dragon Magazine's "Ecology of"

So what you got in the page in the Monstrous Manual is what you got to work with.

#

Corpse candles can't speak and can only communicate with its desire to have its killer brought to justice by a means of a weak mental suggestion that it employs when it selects a champion.

woeful canyon
#

Yeah, so perhaps not them. I just remembered them and was hoping they would fit the bill. Any ideas on what monster might work for me then? I don't want it to be corporeal, just a codex of sorts or soundboard.

iron saffron
#

Why does it have to be supernatural?

woeful canyon
#

I don't want it to be a full side kick. Don't want it to do anything except talk. I'll figure it out, thanks for the help thus far. 🙂

iron saffron
woeful canyon
#

Will do thanks, going to wait on my first question there before this one though.

vital heron
tame locust
#

Is the bluetspur location unique to Ravenloft? I'm interested in more mind flayer lore

sharp owl
#

It's a Domain of Dread, so yeah, it's unique to Ravenloft

obsidian gate
#

its a domain of dread from Ravenloft, yes. There is nothing to suggest that domains have counterparts outside of the setting

sharp owl
#

It's specifically a Domain for a specific elder brain, so not really part of broader illithid lore

#

There's no suggestion that the specific fate of the God-Brain has been shared by any other Elder Brain

tame locust
#

Where might I find other illithid lore?

grim siren
#

You might be interested in the Astromundi Cluster for Spelljammer as it contains the seat of the grand Illithid empire

foggy seal
#

Did Helm allow his paladins/clerics/worshippers to steal, or take things from people? Or was that a no-no in his book?

(FR)

iron saffron
#

It would be a big no-no. Helm is rigid LN as you can get.

Helm killed Mystra for trying to get back to the Outer Planes via Celestial Stairway when Ao forbade it during the Time of Troubles.

eager bay
#

hello, i need help with something in my campaign

#

ok so basicaly i have a villain that would be a Quasi-Deity or Quasi-deity level power but his origin story says he's mortal but ascended to quasi-deity level status i'm just wondering if thats at all possible in the forgotten realms?

iron saffron
#

Ao is the only one who allows anyone to become a deity.

eager bay
#

through what means exactly?

iron saffron
#

Ao is the overgod of all the gods that are worshipped in Toril. He has final approval who gets to be a god or stay as a god.

#

A new god, even a demi-god, is very unlikely.

#

But it's your table so you can say Ao approved...

eager bay
#

i'm just really curious

#

i don't mean to step on anyone's toes

iron saffron
#

You're the DM, you represent Ao and decide, "Sure, this BBEG will have divine power."

#

There's no stepping on anyone's toes since it's your table.

eager bay
#

ok

#

my next question is, could mortals kill said quasi deity withoout divine means (a greater deity stepping in)

calm crest
#

Like many outer planar beings, deities can generally only be killed if you physically kill them rather than a mere avatar of them. This would typically mean fighting them on their home turf.

iron saffron
#

Gods, even demi-gods, are very hard to kill. Virtually impossible in the gods' own divine realms.

Quasi-gods are just below demi-gods (who are divine rank 0).

#

In 4E and 5E, exarchs are quasi-divine. They're essentially level 20 characters in 5E game mechanics.

calm crest
#

(Probably with Epic Boons.)

iron saffron
#

Yeah

eager bay
#

right no my characters would be that level by the time they get to fight him anyway

#

i'm just saying is it possible for mortals to kill said quasi deity?

iron saffron
#

Well, NPCs don't follow the same game mechanics as PC characters (we're wandering into #dm-discussion territory)

eager bay
#

ok cool thats what i needed

calm crest
#

One way to kill a quasi-deity for good in a straight fight would be to lure them to the center of the Outlands. The trouble would be getting them there.

eager bay
#

thank you for the explanations

iron saffron
#

Sorry, I meant to say quasi-deities are NOT true gods in the post above.

#

(I type too fast sometimes)

iron saffron
calm crest
#

Not in Sigil, at the base of the Spire.

#

Tricking anything shy of a greater deity into entering the Mists would also be a way of functionally killing them. Or at least imprisoning them indefinitely.

white ravine
#

In fairness, no deity in their right mind is gonna go near Sigil to get blasted out of existence without a trap that even a god cant foresee.

calm crest
#

No deity in their right mind would ever enter Ravenloft or get within a thunderbolt’s throw of Sigil. That being said, there’s precedent for evil and ambitious ones doing so anyway.

iron saffron
#

[Vecna waves]

foggy seal
#

In the Forgotten Realms, were Paladins allowed to pray to gods other than the one who gave them their divine power? For instance, would a Paladin of Helm be permitted to pray to the Red Knight, or to Tyr? Or would that be heresy?

iron saffron
#

Clerics and paladins know other gods exist. They may not be dedicated to other gods but they would still honour them.

#

A cleric/paladin of Tyr would pray to Ilmater for his blessing if someone he cares about is ill.

crude blaze
#

Could be a paladin of Tyr who worships the entire Triad (that being Tyr, Ilmater, and Torm)

iron saffron
#

There's pray as in honouring a god.
And then there's the game mechanic of praying for spells.
The latter would be limited to the god the paladin is dedicated to.

crude blaze
#

Could also be the opposite. A paladin who swore their oath to the Triad, but personally reveres one more directly.

foggy seal
iron saffron
#

Depends on the degree of tribute

crude blaze
#

Probably depends on the god too

iron saffron
#

Say a little prayer to the goddess of luck before a journey would be fine. Say a little pray to Umberlee so she won't sink the ship the paladin would be acceptable. However, a paladin of Ilmater praying to Loviatar would be a no no because those two gods are opposing forces.

#

Again, pray as in not devoted to and not asking for spell slots.

foggy seal
#

Mm, okay, so my Paladin of Helm should be fine praying to Ilmater, then.

iron saffron
#

Sure, but not for spells.

glass thistle
#

Is there a map that shows general locations of Dragons in the Sword Coast? Like where they live and what age they are too?

static oracle
glass thistle
shell gale
#

hey, in lore, what is a group/faction/race/monster that a Shadar-Kai would want Vengeance against?

white ravine
#

W...Why did dyno react to my message.

sterile breach
#

Probably because you mentioned Vecna. It does the same thing with Strahd.

white ravine
#

...That's scary.

#

Anyways

calm crest
#

Raven Queen also opposes Orcus, so demons and undead would probably be fair game.

outer prawn
#

Heya im looking for an devil that looks like a dog,

calm crest
#

Second edition glabrezu artwork.

iron saffron
#

That's a demon though.

calm crest
#

How did I misread that prompt. Yes, that is not a devil.

#

Hell hounds are lawful evil fiends native to the Nine Hells. Not strictly devils, though.

#

Yugoloths have canids, demons have canids, archons have canids, guardinals have canids, but near as I can tell, there are no proper dog-like baatezu.

outer prawn
#

dog like is fine, and it needs to be coloured redish

#

and any sort of fiend is fine

calm crest
#

Hell hound would be the most obvious choice if you want it to be very similar to a dog. A howler would also be a quadrupedal fiend that is similar to a dog.

#

Glabrezu are bipedal and vaguely doglike.

static oracle
molten osprey
# foggy seal Mm, okay, so my Paladin of Helm should be fine praying to Ilmater, then.

sorry, bit late but this is something I like to touch on as a subject in my games. As a Paladin (really most divine casters, but sticking to Paladin here) you're an extension of your god's court. Their cause is your cause, and you live to enforce/protect said cause. It's much different and far more intimate than a leyman revering said god or praying for support

That said, If I had a Palidin of Helm offer up a quick prayer to Ilmater for support along side a devotion to Helm before making a last stand at a gate or pass to give the party a chance to escape, I'm, rewarding that, player will still die, but I'm going to make it flippin' epic. Fighting LONG past zero HP, final blows falling like thunderclaps, falling dead afyer a moment of pure bliss and peace as the last foe died, etc etc

shell gale
static oracle
#

When in doubt, undead.

#

Also if you haven't already look up the Nightwalker. It's a giant horror from the negative energy plane with a very compelling hook.

hollow urchin
#

Hi! If I wanted to create a demon or devil that would form an alliance (or contract/pact) of sorts with an arcanaloth because, say, they're after the same bit of knowledge (which isn't tied to the Blood War), which rank or type of devil/demon would be best?

crude blaze
hollow urchin
silent atlas
#

So is that new dragon book coming out in august a lore based book

crude blaze
iron saffron
#

I thought the only 5E book coming out in August is the Bigby's Giant one?

crude blaze
#

They recently announced The Practically Complete Guide to Dragons. It’s also listed as a sort of illustrated book, and iirc the series it’s based off of is more like a kids book.

#

Release date of Aug 15

magic jackal
crude blaze
#

I know they said there would be Inspiration for Dungeon Masters too, but I don’t think it’s necessarily intended to be used as a rule/sourcebook for the game.

iron saffron
#

Yeah, it seems like an illustration book rather than a lore book.

#

If you want a proper dragon lore book get Fizban's and the older editions' Dragonomicons.

foggy seal
#

Is Helm an honorable god? For instance, would he be angry if a Paladin of his killed someone without challenging them to a duel or warning them in some way?

iron saffron
#

Helm is probably the most Lawful Neutral god outside Mechanus.

molten osprey
#

old Helm at least leaned good, but he still put duty above everything. He shed a tear after he had to kill Mystra, he had a duty, he did it, but he felt remorse for the result. He's a norse god (he and Tyr Immigrated to FR) so in the end how would a Lawful norse god think of it?

iron saffron
#

Helm isn't Norse. He's not Heimdall.

#

Tyr is an interloper god from the Norse mythology.

molten osprey
#

I stand corrected

#

I could have sworn I read that somewhere, but it might have just been something from homebrew tweaks over the years

magic jackal
foggy seal
magic jackal
#

That's pretty specific, related to a historical medieval concept and/or referring to a modern concept about courtesy

#

I don't think either relate to FR or Helm, because Chivalry is a real-world thing, not a FR thing

#

now granted Helm might embody some chivalric virtues (I have to double check those, to make sure I'm not talking out my donkey here)

#

If we take the Ten Commandments of Chivalry written down by Historian Léon Gautier then we get

  • Thou shalt believe all that the Church teaches and thou shalt observe all its directions.
  • Thou shalt defend the Church.
  • Thou shalt respect all weaknesses, and shalt constitute thyself the defender of them.
  • Thou shalt love the country in which thou wast born.
  • Thou shalt not recoil before thine enemy.
  • Thou shalt make war against the infidel without cessation and without mercy.
  • Thou shalt perform scrupulously thy feudal duties, if they be not contrary to the laws of God.
  • Thou shalt never lie, and shalt remain faithful to thy pledged word.
  • Thou shalt be generous, and give largesse to everyone.
  • Thou shalt be everywhere and always the champion of the Right and the Good against Injustice and Evil
#

1, and 2 don't seem to matter too much to Helm. 3, maybe? 4 no. 5 yes. 6... sometimes. 7 also sometimes. 8 frequently. 9 not really. 10 yeah.

#

See I would define Honorable as adherence to either a personal or conventional code of right action, and acting in a way worthy of respect. In that sense, Helm is a Paragon of Lawfulness, and is Lawful Neutral aligned, and works to uphold stability and balance of the world at small and the cosmology at large. And I'd wager due to his position, his power and his unfailing dutifulness and stoicism, he has earned the respect of a great many of his peers, including probably a number of even his foes.

By my definition of Honorable I'd say he is Honorable.

#

By the definition of Honor as Chivalry, I'd say eh, not really

#

If you were arguing from the modern perspective of curteous, yeah I guess he is? But I would quibble about that being equivalent to honor as a commonly accepted definition.

#

If you define Chivalry as the earliest established definition, which is Horsemanship, then maybe. I mean I have no doubt Helm could ride a horse, he just isn't really depicted with a horse.

jaunty maple
#

In sense of real life Imperial (Pounds / Tons) system. How much do the following races naturally lift without exerting much effort?

• Elf
• Half-Elf
• Dwarf
• Gnome
• Tiefling
• Aasimar
• Genasi
• Warforged

zenith dust
#

Depends on their strength score

jaunty maple
#

Say averaged or a Common enemy of using that race if it helps

foggy seal
#

I would put warforged at the top, then dwarves, then half elves, then Genasi, then Tieflings, then Aasimar, then elves, then gnomes, in descending order, but I don’t think that’s really a lore question.

jaunty maple
#

My bad, I assumed race attributes in a narrative sense Wouldve been lore 😅

iron saffron
molten osprey
modest badger
#

Again, more of a mechanic than lore question, and would change with each edition.

In 5e all of this is determined by Score, Size and whether or not they have the 'Powerful Build Trait'. Also in 5e, Small and Medium creatures have the same carry capacity and drag/push/lift. Only races with the Powerful Build Trait (Like Golaiths and Firbolg) act as if large creatures for lifting: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/using-ability-scores#LiftingandCarrying

In 3.5 Small creatures had capacity x0.75 of Medium creatures, and quadrupedal essentially carried x1.5 the amount of a same sized biped. A medium sized biped of strength 10 can carry up to 100lb, and at str 11 115lb, str 12 130lb, str13 150 lb- the amounts between gradually increasing as well.

In AD&D AFAIK, Carry capacity was only tied to strength, but then strength was capped by race and gender.

...3 is able to lift a maximum of 30 pounds weight above his or her head in a military press, while a character with 18 strength will be able to press 180 pounds in the same manner...
[Strength] also increases the weight the character is able to carry without penalty for encumbrance
(...)
Weight Allowance is given in number of gold pieces over and above the maximum normally stated for unencumbered movement. (See MOVEMENT.) The conversion ratio of gold pieces to pounds of weight is 10
to 1.
With 8-11 being 'Normal' (105lb max carry) and then the scores increasing by different amounts after (12-13 +100, 14-15 +200, 16 +350)

So, basically- there is no lore or meaningful difference here. Each edition changed how it works or how strength even related. In 5e the only races that would have any advantage on this would be races with the powerful build trait, and honestly that seems to be 5e making large sized creatures without making them large size. Str 10 would be the 'norm', and so races that get a strength bonus might be considered stronger, but since Tasha's Stat bonuses are assumed floating.

#

This also reminds me of some of the Early Dragon Magazines where people tried calculating how much a giant could lift.
It gets tedious and technical if you try to consider height, weight, build so on.

glad iron
#

Hey small question but would a Greek mythology campaign fit in with dnd lore

sterile breach
#

There's the Theros setting which takes it cues from Greek myth, so yes. Check out the Mythic Odysseys book.

iron saffron
#

1E Deities & Demigod, 2E Legends & Lore, and 3.5E Deities & Demigods had the Greek pantheon. I believe they had short blurbs on the Greek pantheons and the mythological monsters, such as minotaurs and satyrs, that would fit in a Greek-style setting.

molten osprey
#

Plynpoan pantheor grants spells in realmspace

#

Olympian*

glad iron
#

K thanks

oak condor
#

What is a notable wizard that could have discovered a unbelievable truth about the multiverse? My wizards backstory is that a secret was passed onto him and I want to include who the secrets from. Any old wizard will do.

white ravine
#

Elminster, Mordenkainen, Bigby, etc etc.

serene crater
#

Tasha even if you want old fey/demon secrets

modest badger
#

Kinda lore, little bit rules, but trying to remember- if a Succubus is slain in the material plane, as a fiend, would she end up returning to what ever plane she's connected to, or is she permanently dead? Concubi feel a bit of a weird one to me

white ravine
#

They return, yup.

calm crest
#

The question of which plane a concubus returns to is probably a matter of edition, though.

iron saffron
#

Fiends who are killed in the Material Plane have their essences returned back to their home planes to reform (or be punished or demoted).

#

As for the concubi they were both demons and devils in previous editions but now in 5E they're "free agents" so I have them working for both Hell and the Abyss.

white ravine
#

Can technically get gehennan succubi which is wild

iron saffron
#

Malcanthet (the self proclaimed "queen of the succubi") still exist in 5E (she's in the recent Drizzt illustrated book) and she's a demon lord (however, in the recent Drizzt novel she works for Asmodeus so she's playing both sides of the Blood War).

untold cape
#

Anyone have any cool lore on Verdan

grim siren
#

Unfortunately Verdan have been entirely contained in the Acqusitions Incorporated Book so that is really your only source.

serene crater
#

Quick question but is there any equivalent to a daemon prince from warhammer (40k/sigmar/fantasy all count) in any particular setting?

iron saffron
#

No idea since I don't play WH

#

Different game system lore.

#

There are plenty of demon lords in the Abyss and archdevils in the Nine Hells though.

serene crater
#

Or in layman's terms a fiend created by a creature embracing powers from a fiendish plane

iron saffron
#

Demon lords?
Archdevils?

foggy bough
tame locust
ionic rivet
#

Ravnica is a Magic the Gathering setting.

white ravine
#

Lemures are the result of selling your soul to a devil, you turn into that when you die

#

As for the daemon princes themselves, which ones specifically are you asking about?

#

There's a decent pile of daemon princes and there are definitely some overlap in DND

serene crater
white ravine
#

'Ascend' into something like a demon lord isn't easy, you could maybe polymorph into one with some specific dark magic but...ehhh.

#

Can't really jump from mortal to the peak of demonkind in one fell swoop, even Orcus had to walk the path

grim siren
foggy bough
white ravine
#

They're practically immortal, on top of being elves which live for ages.

foggy bough
#

ok, perfect. thats 100% in line with what i'm planning

serene crater
white ravine
iron saffron
iron saffron
foggy bough
iron saffron
#

Orcus was once a mortal eons ago and he worked his way up the ladder.

CE mortals' souls tend to go to their gods' domains. The godless ones become lemures, probably eatened by demons.

white ravine
unkempt merlin
storm dagger
iron saffron
untold cape
tame locust
#

Do the Boneless have much lore? Ravenloft 3.5 mentions they were made by Azalin...

white ravine
#

They were made by a wizard named Faylorn while he was staying at Azalin's keep

shrewd bobcat
#

Are their any canonical Frost Dwarves in Lore?

iron saffron
tame locust
white ravine
#

Here's an interesting question. Can outsiders become undead? Undead devils and such?

iron saffron
#

Typically no as their essences (aka souls) get reabsorbed by their home plane (for example, demons who die on the Abyss are melded back into the Abyss itself). However, Orcus is a prime example of the exception to the rule.

molten osprey
#

Can SOME outsiders become undead? Yes

calm crest
#

Some outsiders leave corpses behind, which could hypothetically be reanimated.

iron saffron
#

Usually when they die on another plane their bodies disappear / melt / exploded.

calm crest
#

Sure, but given the various items explicitly made out of pieces of outsiders, you might be able to make skeletons, zombies, crawling claws, the aforementioned boneless, etc.

iron saffron
#

Yes, there are demonic golems from earlier editions made from parts of demons.

white ravine
#

Don't need the soul, just the body right?

iron saffron
#

I think it's different for each plane.

#

Typically (at least in the older MMs) they mention what becomes of the body when the Outsider dies.

white ravine
#

Mm. I know you have old lore stuff, what on fiends for that?

molten osprey
#

Anything not native to a prime material would be an outsider by definition. The tricky part generally speaking is their lack of Dual Nature. That's why their bodies dissolve, explode etc etc.

white ravine
#

Im speaking in their native planes, what happens to the corpses

iron saffron
#

I have the 3.5E and 4E Manual of the Planes if you want specific stuff.

white ravine
#

Aye

#

Wondering how a necromancer fairs in the lower planes

iron saffron
#

Demononicon and the Fiendish Codex books has more indepth stuff for fiends.

#

Orcus' layer has lots of undead (probably mostly from creatures from the Material Plane though rather than demons)

white ravine
#

Is it possible to raise them as undead however?

#

At least, in their respective planes where their corpses remain

iron saffron
#

I know that celestials tend to disincorporate when they die and get reabsorbed into the native Upper Plane.

Demons gets reabsorbed back into the Abysss when they die.

I don't recall what happens to the bodies of devils when they die in Hell (I'll have to look it up).

magic jackal
#

They also eventually reincorporate over a long time in Baator

white ravine
#

If someone were to use magic to try and raise a dead outsider's corpse, what would happen?

iron saffron
#

Well, the soul/spirit/essence has to be free and willing. Dunno if that will apply to most Outsiders if their essences are absorbed back into their native planes.

white ravine
#

For undeath?

iron saffron
#

Oh, I misread it as "Raise Dead"

white ravine
#

Yeah

iron saffron
#

Well, there's the 3.5E Fiend Fiolo's Demonflesh Golem created from the remains of demons.

white ravine
#

...Makes me wonder what happens if you animated a dead bone devil's skeleton.

iron saffron
#

The Lost Laboratory of Kwalish has an ||animated corpse of a bone devil that's piloted by a quasit.||

||The bone devil's brain was extracted into a brain-in-a-jar.||

white ravine
#

Okay, so it IS possible.

#

Interesting...

#

Even better

iron saffron
#

So technically the bone devil was still "alive"...

white ravine
#

Eh, that's a stretch

iron saffron
#

It just wanted its body back...

white ravine
#

Who wouldnt?

iron saffron
#

Demi liches

white ravine
#

Fair enough

opaque geode
#

what's like the lore on warforged

white ravine
#

Ahem

#

'The warforged were built to fight in the Last War. While the first warforged were mindless automatons, House Cannith devoted vast resources to improving these steel soldiers. An unexpected breakthrough produced sapient soldiers, giving rise to what some have only grudgingly accepted as a new species. Warforged are made from wood and metal, but they can feel pain and emotion. Built as weapons, they must now find a purpose beyond war. A warforged can be a steadfast ally, a cold-hearted killer, or a visionary in search of meaning.'

unkempt merlin
#

yea that

molten osprey
#

Imagine the terror that could be wrought if they made a warforge out of sapient pear wood

unkempt merlin
#

not really sure I follow? warforged are sapient and can be made of wood

magic jackal
#

They are not sapient wood though

#

they're not treats or awakened trees

white ravine
#

They're bits of metal, wood, and stone jammed together and with a soul crammed into it with some dubious magic

molten osprey
#

while Swamp and Tea didn't see it, I am unsure if Xplosion got it, or just used a fortunate turn of phrase

white ravine
#

Given my confusion, likely the lattermost

molten osprey
#

it's truly a sad day when a Pratchett joke flies unseen through a D&D chat

ionic rivet
#

should have mentioned The Luggage

molten osprey
#

well you wouldn't make a warforged out of a steamer chest, that would be silly

ionic rivet
#

But think of it's carrying capacity! /jk

molten osprey
#

That's my house cannon reason I don't run ebberon now though, Sapient Pear Wood Warforge murdered everyone

#

someone thought they had a bright idea, and whoops

calm crest
#

Murder them, make them inexplicably smell of lavender. 50–50, really.

mortal tree
#

if anybody wanna to find about the lore or specific stuff about dnd use chatgpt

iron saffron
#

Um, no. ChatGPT is very limited. ChatGPT is essentially a search engine limited to what's in its database and it doesn't ahve 49 years of D&D lore of all editions in its database.

#

I just asked it, "Where is Tashluta?" and it replies back:

I'm sorry, but I couldn't find any specific information about a place called "Tashluta" in my training data up until September 2021. It's possible that Tashluta is a fictional location from a book, game, or other creative work that I don't have knowledge of.

If you actually want to know about official D&D lore then ask here rather than ChatGPT.

mortal tree
#

good point

cerulean lagoon
#

Compared to normal liches: how unhinged are demiliches?

iron saffron
#

The have little to no trace of humanity/mortality any more as they have gone beyond the need for the physical.

white ravine
#

Hell, even a lich has a lot of that classification. A demilich is that insanity cranked to 11.

magic jackal
#

Yeah I mean in order to want to pursue normal lichdom you have to be a little unhinged

#

and then the process of becoming a lich makes you more unhinged because of the influence of massive quantities of negative energy, that's why normal liches always become some flavor of evil aligned regardless of their prior alignment (though most people that pursue normal lichdom are probably already evil to begin with)

#

and then a demilich loses all traces of humanity that were left (probably a pitiful amount) and depart the normal lich concerns of the physical realm, so yeah, insane doesn't even really fully cover it imo.

calm crest
#

I’m curious: are Spheres of Annihilation a naturally occurring phenomenon? Or are they created by deities? By mortals? 5e describes them essentially as a planar rift in a magical containment field, which potentially sounds naturally occurring. 3.5 has the Sphere of Ultimate Destruction 9th level spell that allows a mage to temporarily emulate a SoA, which makes a magic item that continuously replicates the effect seem plausible. Mystara has Blackballs/Deadly Spheres/Umbral Blots which are larger, more sentient SoA and are thought to have been created by the Old Ones, although multiple other theories are also presented in the Monstrous Manual (and the Rules Cyclopedia description is brief).

magic jackal
#

Not naturally occurring

calm crest
#

Magic items created by whom? Is the “hole in the multiverse” artificially created, or just artificially contained in that case?

#

Hmm… looks like 3.5 vaguely suggests a connection to matter from the Negative Energy Plane.

white ravine
calm crest
#

So the answer’s a bit all of the above, then? Naturally occurring rifts appear on the NEP, and other beings then modify them to be subject to mental control?

magic jackal
#

I gather it's meant to be in-universe unclear

#

FR wiki has one recorded event supposedly as their historical "origin" in the realms' material plane, but I have my doubts about that being definitive

#

It does seem to reference the sphere of ultimate destruction spell however

calm crest
#

At least the status of Blackballs (or Deadly Spheres or Umbral Blots) seems to be pretty consistent, as multiple editions reaffirm the Old One origin.

dusky hatch
#

O_mirrored is there a canonical water/ocean/sea god/goddess

calm crest
#

In which setting?

dusky hatch
#

Forgotten realms/sword coast

iron saffron
calm crest
#

Umberlee is the main one, yeah. There are some other deities that are also associated with water, too, like Deep Sashelas.

#

Pretty much all the patron deities of the various aquatic humanoids would work.

dusky hatch
#

Oh NodPopuko i gots it, tysm

iron saffron
#

Deep is the elven god of the sea and the sea elves.

#

Umberlee is an evil god so... that is one you may be careful about as a patron for a PC.

dusky hatch
#

Is there one for tritons?

iron saffron
#

Yes

dusky hatch
iron saffron
calm crest
#

Beat me to it!

#

Poseidon is a chaotic neutral sea deity worshipped in some parts of Faerûn, if you want neutral.

#

Istishia is the true neutral deity of elemental water.

#

Eadro is another true neutral deity and creator of merfolk.

iron saffron
#

Poseidon is an interloper god in Toril?

#

Huh, he is. Worshipped by some in Impiltur.

calm crest
#

Probably wanted to see what he was missing out on along with all the other interlopers.

dusky hatch
#

So many options.. NodPopuko ill look into all of them, ty for the help guys!

iron saffron
#

You can say it's a vast sea of gods to choose from...
[puts on sunglasses]

#

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAH...

calm crest
#

Huh, today I learned that even leucrottas have their own pantheon in FR.

iron saffron
#

Really?

unkempt merlin
#

yea

calm crest
upper ether
#

what does a warforged lich look like

or plasmoid
or thri kreen

iron saffron
#

This isn't really a lore question.

grim siren
#

And even still liches don't really have a look other than powerful undead [insert species here]

upper ether
#

ok

grim siren
iron saffron
#

Same. That's why I mentioned earlier that ChatGPT is useless for lore when even those of us who are D&D lore nerds still learn new things.

grim siren
#

I've gotten kind of a good use out of the tool. I really really like generating in world descriptions for things. Especially when my creative juices run out. For instance, I wowed my players when they went to the library and they started pulling books off shells and I had content for those books written. Chant GPT served as the basis for those books. Each one went through several rounds of editing, but that was still a lot less work than writing. 25 plus books that were each a page or so long.

#

Enhance not replace. Is the best way to use these things in my opinion.

unkempt merlin
#

Chant GPT sounds like a holy scripture ;P

grim siren
#

Look

#

look

iron saffron
#

I still prefer to have sources to the information.

grim siren
#

Oh absolutely. And it needs to really fun conversations where we source real world texts within world information.

Particularly the volos guides

iron saffron
#

One of the reasons I chose to have my campaign world in the Forgotten Realms is because my players can look up the world lore without me needing to feed them it.

I told the three new players that the party is currently in the outskirts of Halruaa but will go back to Tashluta so they wrote their backstories based on the geography of the region.

#

That said, I still have to give some exposition of the more obscure world lore or stuff I've tweaked/added (such as integrating the "Barrier Peaks" as part of the mountain range surrounding Halruaa rather than being in Greyhawk because I had the Lost Laboratory of Kwalish inserted into my campaign).

grim siren
#

That is such a really big help the team over at the wiki is truly amazing

white ravine
#

I cant even imagine how that'd work, especially with the details of warforged's design

severe storm
#

Petrified wood

white ravine
#

It's more the soul part that's a bit iffy

calm crest
#

Wouldn't it just be a substitution of the original lifeforce with Negative Energy in order to make it undead?

unkempt merlin
#

the soul part is actually the least iffy part

#

Warforged 100% have souls in lore

#

its only debated as to whether or not they do in setting

white ravine
#

Oh I know, but there's some already dubious magic regarding how souls are placed into warforged (if memory serves, it's not too far off from how yugoloths mint soul coins out of people) so there's an argument to make being able to put a negative energy spirit in after that

unkempt merlin
#

there isn't actually any specific truth about "how" they are placed

white ravine
#

I do vaguely recall in some bit of eberron lore that warforged simply cannot become undead

unkempt merlin
#

for most basic forms of undead yea warforged can't become them

#

Their inability to become any of the basic types of undead in lore is actually one of the driving reasons in setting so many people think they don't have souls

#

The issue with Lichdom and a warforged is simply put: liches are rare in eberron

#

In theory it could work

white ravine
#

From what I'm seeing it's a hard stop that warforged cant become any form of undead

unkempt merlin
#

The key bit as to how they were described is they can't become undead by any known means

#

the methods for making a lich aren't particularly known

#

there is also potentially potential for them to become Ascendent Councilors of the Undying Court, but the main thing is the requirements for that

#

As in: it would be hard for a warforged to obtain the requirements

calm crest
# upper ether what does a warforged lich look like or plasmoid or thri kreen

Lore-wise, the main reason that typical liches looks like skeletons is not because the magic makes them that way—the ritual to achieve lichdom just kills your body. Most liches are old and don't particularly care about wasting time and effort to maintain their appearance, meaning that all that extraneous fleshy stuff just rots away eventually. There are liches who either preserve themselves or are relatively fresh, meaning there are liches that resemble zombies, mummies, pallid living creatures, etc. By this logic, a thri-kreen could look like a brittle and hollow exoskeleton, or it could look like any other state of decomposition. Living and undead plasmids might be nearly indistinguishable, or perhaps lichdom would be akin to apoptosis, meaning its body would be fragmentary.

white ravine
#

I also find the idea of becoming a lich as a warforged kind of funny

#

Double immortality

unkempt merlin
#

hence why the "known" is particularly relevant

white ravine
#

Huh. Weird.

unkempt merlin
#

there isn't a ton of official info on them (or too much in particular in Kanon either), just that they are basically undead warforged and.... thats it really.

calm crest
#

That does track for a Mourning phenomenon, though.

unkempt merlin
#

indeed

tame locust
#

Backgrounds from Guildmaster's guide to Ravinca seem to have considerably more magic than most other backgrounds. Is there a lore reason behind that?

covert island
#

Well, tney are all associated with one of the Guilds. And the MTG settings are a lot more High Magic then regular D&D settings

molten osprey
#

Undead warforged would just be a normal warforged with a negative energy "spirit" animating them as opposed to the positive energy "soul" that animates them normally. They really aren't alive like flesh and blood characters, they don't age, they don't need sustenance, they're immune to viral sicknesses

#

so undead wouldn't really matter, since they aren't alive to begin with in the traditional sense

zenith dust
#

on the flipside they are actually alive

#

you're making things up that aren't present in the lore

#

they're living creatures, they even have a substance that is functionally similar enough to blood that they can sustain vampires

unkempt merlin
zenith dust
#

WITH THAT SAID in the lore, they cannot be made into undead by any known means. but they they are alive, and they do have souls (resurrection still works on them as an example)

unkempt merlin
#

And as mentioned above, the Woeforged are undead warforged

#

Just made in an unknown way in setting

zenith dust
#

the mournland is Weird

#

one of the novels had a warforged in the mournland that was basically "dead" in the mournland, but not fully dead. they were stuck laying there amongst all the humanoid corpses that weren't rotting

#

one of the most consistent bits of lore about warforged though is that they are alive

#

whatever processes are at work, the creature of wood, stone, and steel (And other organic stuff) is living

molten osprey
#

i said in a traditional sense, not that thaey aren't alive

unkempt merlin
#

they literally are though?

#

like, in a traditional sense they are

molten osprey
#

they don't need to eat, drink, breathe, or intake anything to maintain function, things that are alive need that

unkempt merlin
#

they've got blood and organ analogues

#

just cause they don't need to eat, drink, or breath doesn't mean they aren't alive

#

there are other races that don't need those that are just as alive lol

molten osprey
#

what generates the calories to allow function?

unkempt merlin
#

thats your first mistake

#

assuming that all life works off calories or science in a fantasy world

molten osprey
#

ok, so why does "traditional sense" bother you so much?

#

because you still haven't explained why I'm so wrong for using that qualifier

unkempt merlin
#

you never actually used "traditional sense"?
you just said "they really aren't alive like flesh and blood characters", which just isn't true in lore

molten osprey
unkempt merlin
#

oh you meant there. It still wouldn't be accurate? Because they are alive in a fairly traditional sense? Not "perfectly" so, but pretty well?

zenith dust
#

also they are alive for every bit that counts except known ways to make them undead

molten osprey
#

: shrug : In so much as an Awakened Teaketttle is alive, anyways It's late and My GF is getting mad at me for being ay my desk, ciao

tame locust
#

An old campaign setting includes an illithid impersonating a small child.

Lorewise, don't Illithids normally have to implant their tadpoles into a medium humanoid, and take over that host?

Are there small illithids from... halflings, gnomes?

modest badger
#

There are yep.

#

Also gnome squidlings. In general it seems best to note use gnomes, as they often seem to go awry

calm crest
jagged apex
#

and the reason gnome ceremorphs and gnome squidlings are even a thing lore wise in the 5e continuity is chalked up to the strange magic that is within gnomish biology

#

i could also see kender providing similar results since their 5e incarnation is basically an altered offshoot of gnomes by quote "unbridled magic", said magic making them almost supernaturally curiosity and fearlessness and thus becoming the first of the kender

restive summit
zenith dust
#

I don't remember now, it might have been the Lost Mark books

oak condor
#

Do centaurs just use elvish names?

#

Because I can't find any names for them in MotM

molten osprey
#

they tend to lean that way, sylvan background and all that jazz

eager bay
#

The Weeping War is great. That's all I wanted to say.

sharp owl
#

What is the Weeping War and what makes it great?

eager bay
#

It caused the fall of Myth Drannor and triggered the Elves to Evermeet. At least originally. 5e books don't even mention the bloody thing and attribute the elves leaving Faerun to the Crown Wars.

sharp owl
#

But what is it?

eager bay
#

As for what makes it great, any event that depicts the fall of an ancient kingdom is a cool setting. Writing characters that have to grapple with the prospect of mortality forced onto them is cool

#

It's like, a war

sharp owl
#

I mean, that seems self evident

#

But between who? And why? And what makes it more interesting than any other war?

eager bay
#

Three demons get unleashed and lead an army of Evil Things(tm) across Faerun

#

It's largely foght between the elves of Cormanthyr and thr Dalesmen vs the Army of Darkness(tm) led by the Nefarious Three

sharp owl
#

Like, I find the Blood War interesting as a concept because it's this endless war between two evil and effectively unlimited forces where the best case scenario for the rest of the multiverse is just that, an endless stalemate. I like how forces of good are incentivised to assist both sides to ensure the other doesn't get an upper hand because the outcomes are either destruction of the multiverse or oppression of the multiverse.

eager bay
#

Fair. I like the Weeping War because it's a people's last stand who up until that point basically thought themselves masters of the world and no matter how hard they fight, they just get overwhelmed.

obtuse owl
#

Do you think that a powerful enough Sorcerer could become a Warlock's patron?

unkempt merlin
#

Considering a wizard can, yes

#

(Liches and some other patrons options were wizards. Including one wizard in particular who became Fey)

obtuse owl
#

oh, right!

white ravine
obtuse owl
#

To be fair, i had no problem believing a unicorn could be a patron

iron saffron
#

You believe in unicorns?!

modest badger
#

Might be my nostalgia for playing with unicorn dolls and MLP and the like, but I still love Dragon Magazine 170's different types of unicorns. Pinto unicorns, bay unicorns, sylvan unicorns so on. Different alignments and elements.

upbeat forum
#

How are the representatives of the members of the Lord‘s Alliance on the absolution council in Revel‘s End selected? What does it take to become one?

vital heron
upbeat forum
#

But it would be possible that the member of the absolution council who represents waterdeep is also a masked lord (but nobody would know that of course)?

vital heron
potent pewter
#

Is there any sort of Named giant-turtle-island (similar to the Lion Turtle ones in Last Air Bender)in D&D?

white ravine
#

Dragon Turtles!

#

Named however...that's a trickier one. You can probably make up your own honestly, all dragons of any kind are unique enough.

potent pewter
#

I’m planning on making a Giant SPACE Turtle ship that, for reasons, people assume is an actual creature and not a ship, and I wanted to name it after/in reference to something along those lines

white ravine
#

Could go for something like A'Tuin

#

It's a giant space turtle that carries four elephants which in turn carry the world on their backs

#

From Discworld

iron saffron
unkempt merlin
#

That's in 5e as well

potent pewter
#

I’m basically making the ship a self contained bio-vessel whose inhabitants don’t know they’re on a ship, and anyone outside that encounters it thinks it’s a real Giant Space Dragon Turtle (or something) and enough people have encountered it to have named it

potent pewter
#

I’ve found the FR wiki, but was wondering if anyone here had more, if not, nbd

molten osprey
#

and make it spin through realmspace like a top

iron saffron
#

Waterborne ship or spelljammer?

magic jackal
#

Maybe call it Maturin (after the turtle in Stephen King's Mainstream Mythos)

potent pewter
#

Probably going with “Rixma’tuin” as a nod towards Discworld and a Magic card from Theros which is D&D canon now

magic jackal
#

Oh you mean Arixmethes?

#

Well if you wanna get technical, MTG D&D canonicity is kinda a gray area, the MTG worlds have their own version of the multiverse which differs from the D&D one.

#

I'd say it's similar to the MTG crossovers with settings like Warhammer and LOTR and Stranger Things, yeah they exist but it's more a fun reference than a legitimate canonical connection.

#

But that aside Arixmethes is cool and I love Theros.

#

I need to find stats for it at some point

potent pewter
#

I mean, any person’s campaign takes place in their own version of the multiverse. . . but I know what you’re getting at. And yes, myself and one of my players have an Arixmethes EDH deck

iron saffron
#

Sure, but this channel deals with the official lore (from all editions).

native sphinx
#

can someone explain me wth is the domain of power

#

for the Limbo

white ravine
#

What do you mean 'domain of power'?

iron saffron
#

Are you referring to a cleric's domain?

native sphinx
#

nono

#

i read it somewhere

#

on a d100 rolls

#

one sec lemme find the source

#

here

#

section: random limbo terrain

iron saffron
#

Okay, if you scroll down there's the section on Domains

#

Occasionally, a creature sets down in an area that some intelligent being has imposed its will on and made stable. Usually, these domains are cities of the githzerai. Or it could be some other city, or in the realm of a power.

native sphinx
#

i see

#

so is a very specific location

#

thanks

#

wow Slaads are so annoying to deal with

white ravine
#

Oh absolutely.

native sphinx
#

lmao

#

my party is getting tpk'd

#

but they found a strat

#

they asked me, if they remove the eggs of the red ones, will they notice it? I went to check their intelligence and is so fkn low (6)

#

so i told them, yea they wont notice

#

result: their main plan is
-get infected by red
-dont be perma attacked
-beat the shit out of the blue ones
-find the invisible green one(casted invsibility)

#

i love dnd

white ravine
native sphinx
#

ye sorry

#

you are right

jagged apex
#

all you really would have to do for the 5e versions is reskin the stomp attack into a huge fin sweep attack or remove the stomp attack and make it a reskin of the earth shaking movement bonus action

#

though i'd argue to make the change reasonable, cut it's non swim based movement in half to reflect the mechanics of the biological difference between the itterations if you are wanting to use one but in 5e mechanics

gray ember
#

Do we have anything about the language of Kobolds?

obsidian gate
#

draconic

vital heron
#

Mentioned in a 1999 magazine article.... 😄

#

It's basically just creole Draconic..

gray ember
#

I more meant information regarding the language in universe lol

vital heron
molten osprey
#

Yipyak is butchered Auld Wyrmish

#

don't know if it's used outside FR

manic minnow
#

Where in the forgotten realms one may find scimitars being used more often than other swords, if anywhere?

calm crest
#

Zakhara, the Land of Fate, southeast of Faerûn.

#

It is rather isolated, but not unreachable, from the rest of the continent.

manic minnow
#

Thanks

oak condor
#

Would a shadar-kai grave cleric be good flavor wise?

iron saffron
oak condor
#

Okay, sorry

zenith dust
#

I wonder about shadar-kai lore, are they known for having varied religions & expressions of religion in FR? I think this is a great lore question

magic jackal
#

I would imagine a shadar-kai grave cleric would be most likely a follower of the raven queen

#

who is more or less neutral

white ravine
#

They don't see that as a bad thing, but shadar kai rarely leave the shadowfell and rarely have a good reason to want to. That, and being under the Raven Queen gives them actual immortality, so...perks?

minor oyster
#

I just realized something possibly janky. One could polymorph into a ghost. If they die would they then create a ghost or would that polymorph have technically killed them?

#

Outside of the rules where theyd probably just turn back after the ghost form dies, im wondering the lore implications

ionic rivet
#

This is the lore channel - did you mean to post in #dnd-rules?

#

Ah okay

minor oyster
#

yeah xd

#

That said. Changing into a ghost sounds super risky xd

white ravine
#

I thought there was some stipulation with true polymorph that you cant turn into undead

minor oyster
#

Exactly my thoughts

tame locust
cunning flare
#

Question on the Fey Wilds and Eladrin. What are the etiquettes that should be followed when dealing with fey inside the fey wilds? What are their views on Eladrin who live in the material plain?

tardy wasp
#

Are there any notable male Clerics, Paladins, or other priestly characters of Selune in any sourcebooks or novels?

vital heron
#

The 3e Waterdeep setting book mentions Hanor Kichavo, a monk, who actually is more an Amaunator worshipper, but believed Selune to be an aspect of him

hidden current
#

lore wise would being psionic help to resist mind flayer tadpoles?

white ravine
#

The tadpoles arent very psychic, they just burrow into your skull. Might give you a momentary defense but...well, not much else.

magic jackal
#

The process of a typical Ceromorphosis requires a docile or otherwise incapacitated subject, which is the primary evolutionary purpose of the fully grown Mind Flayer/Elder Brain's Mind Blast.

#

And what's more, Mind Flayers gain nourishment from intelligent minds with psionic potential iirc, meaning they're their primary prey, I would find it strange if they were more resistant to their conversion.

#

And Mind Blasts are intended to neutralize the psionic powers of other creatures, as well as incapacitate them.

#

So Mind Flayers are more or less finely tuned for hunting and eating and/or converting psionic humanoids.

#

Other words, you're screwed lol

hidden current
#

what about a necromancer? if they sent negative energy into their own brain would they be able to survive and kill the tadpole or would that not work?

magic jackal
#

That seems kinda... nebulous

spark haven
#

the general idea is that by the time the tadpole is wiggling into your ear you're already unconscious or pacified

#

so like sure, if you can somehow summon the willpower and magic, maybe you could

#

but the whole point of the process is that you aren't supposed to be able to

hidden current
#

oh right, my bad i was thinking baldur gate 3 and forgot that they escaped before being turned

spark haven
#

e.g. you spent all your spell slots in the fight with adult mindflayers

magic jackal
#

also that's like asking "hey if I kill myself, will it also kill any parasites trying to infest me?" I mean the answer is technically yes, but also probably inadvisable.

#

generally, negative energy is not conducive to life.

#

and like, if you could nuke your own brain with it, why couldn't you nuke the tadpole?

#

many such questions.

hidden current
magic jackal
#

yes, but not immunity

#

and that doesn't answer the other question of why not just nuke the tadpole lol

hidden current
#

or maybe turn yourself into a lich before you get turned

magic jackal
#

uh

#

that's a lot longer of a process typically

hidden current
#

true

calm crest
#

I suppose if a mage wanted to be spiteful, they could true polymorph or shapechange into any of the menagerie of monsters that kill the tadpole and host during failed ceromorphosis. Granted, it would probably be more practical to briefly become a fire elemental in order to remove parasites.

magic jackal
#

lol that would be funny

#

though I would question why, if a spellcaster of 17th or above level had an opportunity to cast a 9th level spell, they're even in that situation

calm crest
#

True. The fire elemental gimmick would be more reasonable for a mid-level druid.

magic jackal
#

I mean, since tadpoles can only perform ceromorphosis on humanoids iirc, just turn into a dog and run away lmao

#

any druid of 2nd level or above could do that

#

ofc, meeting a mind flayer as a second level druid is a death sentence in and of itself so 😬

calm crest
#

Sure, but for most life forms, it would be mutually fatal if already infected. Creatures that completely lack nervous systems seem like the safest bet to avoid being killed during ceromorphosis. So maybe a level 4 druid could just turn into a jellyfish or something.

hidden current
calm crest
#

Those are psionically bio-engineered.

magic jackal
#

so intellect devourers and the other various experiments made by illithids are not considered illithids

#

and the brain dragon is a special case, that's not created by ceromorphosis, that's created by an elder brain hijacking a dragon

#

notably a different process than what we are discussing.

#

this is a lore-supported, illithids can only perform true ceromorphosis on humanoids with latent psionics, i.e. humans, orcs, elves, gith, goblins, gnolls, and grimlocks

#

and sometimes gnomes

hidden current
#

there is also a yuan ti illithid

magic jackal
#

Those are not produced by Ceromorphosis

#

they're produced by cross-breeding.

#

Ceromorphosis is specifically the process of conversion of a humanoid with latent psychic energy/psionics into a standard Illithid via inserting Mind-Flayer Tadpoles into their Brain.

#

There's also some other non-humanoids but those are never guaranteed, like you can put a Tadpole in a Dragon, a Beholder, etc. but god only knows if it'll actually work.

white ravine
magic jackal
#

3.5e serpent kingdoms setting book

white ravine
#

What in the god damn?

magic jackal
#

lol

magic jackal
#

there is a good reason it's called "The City of Abominations"

calm crest
#

One species lays eggs, and the other hermaphroditically produces live parasitic larvae. Probably just best not to question it.

magic jackal
obsidian gate
#

god damn I need to use this in a game

calm crest
#

Granted, 3.5e also had biologically produced half-skeletons, so there are definitely weirder things out there.

magic jackal
#

I do have to wonder how that factors into the Yuan-Ti belief of their racial superiority and being created with a perfect form by their God.

calm crest
#

I mean, it’s also basically what mind flayers think, just substituting “far realm philosophy” for “god.”

magic jackal
#

Well, Mind Flayers have their own Gods too

#

but the thing is, Yuan-Ti culture favors the more serpentine features one has as a metric to determine respect within their social hierarchy

#

and lemme find the exact passage rq that talks about how they view their body as granted to them by their god

calm crest
#

Don’t yuan-tillithids have five snake heads? One main one, and then one for each feeding tentacle? Seems pretty snakey to me.

magic jackal
#

Nah, that's Anathemas that have multiple heads

#

Yuan-Tillithids have a Viper head typically

calm crest
#

A recognizable trait of yuan-tillithids was the presence of viper heads on their scaled tentacles.

magic jackal
#

ope I misread lol

white ravine
#

'Scaled tentacles' feels illegal.

magic jackal
#

"Most Yuan-Ti consider the variances among the subraces (from near-human to almost wholly serpent) to be a part of Sseth's divine plan. Yuan-Ti who embrace this philosophy believe that each individual should make the most of the particular form he was given, striving only to improve his magic, wisdom, and his own creations."

#

'distinctive, viper-headed, scaly tentacles' yep, that's right there on p. 110 lol

magic jackal
calm crest
#

So by that logic, yuan-tillithids are just a cruel joke of Sseth, it seems.

magic jackal
#

I mean, they've got more snake per snake

#

what's cruel about that?

#

that can only be good.

calm crest
#

True.

magic jackal
#

I guess whether it's actually part of Sseth's Divine Plan relies on the variances in Yuan-Ti truly being part of Sseth's Divine Plan in the first place, and Sseth's relationship with the Far Realm, Mind Flayers and their Gods.

calm crest
#

You’d think that a neothelid yuan-ti (neyuan-tilid?) would be the ultimate form, even snakier.

magic jackal
#

I don't think a Neothelid Yuan-Ti is possible?

#

Because a Neothelid comes from Tadpoles that haven't performed Ceromorphosis

#

I don't actually know how Yuan-Tillithids even reproduce

calm crest
#

One progenitor could be a neothelid and the other could be an anathema or abomination? Doesn’t seem any less improbable than the other crossbreed.

magic jackal
#

Can a Neothelid even reproduce?

#

I question that as well

#

I also don't know if a Yuan-Tillithid can present the typical Yuan-Ti forms, like Abomination, but if they could then mayeb the pinnacle would be a Yuan-Tillithid Abomination that performed the ritual to become an Anathema

calm crest
#

I imagine a yuan-tillithid anathema would probably also serve as an elder brain, representing the final goal of that alliance.

magic jackal
#

I dunno about that, Illithids don't really "promote" to Elder Brains that way.

#

It's more a conglomerate of the brains of dead illithids of a colony that grows large enough

calm crest
#

Sure, but it they’re going to pick a creature, why not a ulitharid?

magic jackal
#

and it's unclear if Yuan-Tillithids have that same ecological function

magic jackal
calm crest
#

To become an anathema.

magic jackal
#

That's a ritual specific to Yuan-Ti Abominations

#

and Yuan-Tillithids don't appear to have the normal Illithid ranks because they don't undergo Ceromorphosis, which is how Ulitharids happen.

calm crest
#

If we’re going by the assumption that yuan-ti variance occurs, a yuan-tillithid abomination-ulitharid doesn’t seem impossible.

magic jackal
#

Well, the Yuan-Ti variance is sketchy at best already

calm crest
#

Since we don’t know how the crossbreeds occur.

magic jackal
#

but Illithid variance is specifically a result of Ceromorphosis, and the one thing I'm pretty sure we do know is that Yuan-Tillithids are not produced by Ceromorphosis

#

My guess as to the crossbreeds is that Illithids retain certain functions of the converted humanoid body, and Yuan-Ti are somehow compatible. I will not go into more detail.

calm crest
#

If a normal mind flayer can sire half-yuan-ti that resemble normal illithids, perhaps a ulitharid could sire half-ulitharid, half-yuan-tis.

#

Obviously a ridiculous scenario, but hypothetically possible.

magic jackal
#

That being said, they do lay eggs.

calm crest
#

They are hermaphroditic.

magic jackal
#

I'm pretty sure they're entirely sexless.

#

I'm looking for a source on that though

calm crest
#

I’m currently trying to find a source, too. I recall specifically reading it.

magic jackal
#

And I'm uncertain if being an Ulitharid is inherited genetically or is a random mutation, or both.

calm crest
#

Monstrous Manual for 2e

Illithids are hermaphroditic; each can produce one tadpole twice in its life.

hidden current
magic jackal
#

apparently "Into the Void" by Nigel Findley claims that they're entirely sexless, posessing no biological sex.

#

that's from 1991, I think that's later than the 2e MM?

vital heron
#

Yeah, speaking as a biologist, often you see sci-fi writers use "hermaphroditic" to mean mono-sexed, even if there's no sexual reproduction taking place at all. The description of them producing tadpoles a couple of times in their life sounds more like parthenogenesis really. But that's not a term that readers will always know, and I guess hermaphroditic is.

magic jackal
#

Parthenogenesis sounds much more accurate, yeah.

calm crest
#

I assumed that they functioned like mollusks, but I concur that parthenogenetic is probably more in line with how mind flayers are described post-AD&D.

#

Which, if we are to assume that they are parthenogenetic or “entirely sexless” rather than hermaphroditic, only raises more questions as to how yuan-tillithids occur. Copious usage of psychometabolic psionics?

magic jackal
#

Could be could be

#

My theory is sheer exposure from close proximity to mind flayers and/or mind flayer tadpoles produces a mutative effect that co-opts the natural mechanism of extreme biological variation in yuan-ti.

#

like they're just naturally susceptible to mutation via psionic influence while in the egg, being naturally psionically gifted creatures themselves

calm crest
#

Basically reverse-beholdering their offspring?

magic jackal
#

kinda?

#

I think it's probably an unintentional side-effect

calm crest
#

That would make more sense than the literal interpretation of crossbreeding.

magic jackal
#

Yeah

#

Yuan-Ti just have a vast diversity of forms, maybe there's a mechanism while they're in the Egg that selects the form they develop when they emerge?

#

And maybe that mechanism is just influenced by massive quantities of Psionic Energy? Hell it might even be that process is actually Psionic in nature, given that Yuan-Ti are remarkably Psionically Gifted, which would explain how that process would be unintentionally co-opted by the influence of Illithid proximity.

#

Maybe that's where the idea that their form is part of a divine plan, maybe they psionically determine from their egg-stage on a subconscious level what form would be best suited for them and/or the yuan-ti civilization they're in once they emerge?

calm crest
#

True. In addition, the thought of illithids tinkering with yuan-ti reproduction and then claiming it is a sign from Sseth that their alliance will be prosperous seems in character for them.

magic jackal
#

But then again it may very well be Sseth is actually determining it, or maybe it's both and Sseth when fashioning the Yuan-Ti granted them such a Psionic Mechanism.

magic jackal
#

It would be entirely in-character lol

elder bloom
#

Can anyone help me find the info on what different things different colored dragons like to hoard?

shut basin
#

I know that in Dragons of Stormwreck Isle the blue dragon liked to hoard a bunch of gold, silver, copper. But also had a lot of blue gems and crystals as well as a flute, an hourglass, and candlesticks

red mulch
#

I believe the hoard is more dependent on the individual dragon rather than their coloring

iron saffron
#

Fizban's Treasury of Dragons and the older editions of Dragonomicon have more details on the types of dragons and their ecology.

#

Fizban's goes into detail what each type of chromatic, gem, and metallic dragons prefer to be in their treasure hoard.

white ravine
#

White dragons like diamonds especially, and blues...

#

I dont know what blues like.

crude blaze
#

I think green dragons specifically like elves as part of their hoard for whatever reason

#

iirc blues really just like… blue things.

white ravine
#

Sounds about right, if not boring

#

I mean like, look at black dragons. Thats sick

fading shell
#

i was reading
tiamat and they tallked about a war between the outer gods and the gods of the FR world like (tiamat or bahamut) anybody can tell me what happened

iron saffron
#

What do you mean "outer gods"?

#

Deities outside of Realmspace have no influence on Toril. There are interloper gods, such as Tyr and the Mulhorandi pantheon (aka Egyptian), from other worlds who arrived in Realmspace.

molten osprey
#

I think he's referring to primordial concept gods, creation of the universe stuff

iron saffron
#

The creator gods?

#

There was the Dawn War between the gods and the primordials.

#

Well, they need to be less vague if they want a more definitive answer.

molten osprey
#

it could have been something from council of wyrms

#

I haven't ead that ina long time but it had it's own creation mythology iirc

jagged apex
#

are there any known goblin holidays in published materials? only one i can find on my own is maglubyet's holy day of the new moon, which is very vauge from what i could find

iron saffron
#

That's probably it.

tight marsh
#

Is dnd one big lore or is it different each adventure

iron saffron
#

There are different lore for each setting.

#

Forgotten Realm's lore is different from Greyhawk's, which is different from Dark Sun's, which is different from Ravenloft's, which is different from Dragonlance's, which is different from Blackmoor's...

#

Of course a DM's homebrew world has its own lore.

jagged apex
#

basically each setting has it's own lore, and each table that people play at effectively even if in the same setting is basically it's own timeline, hense why some people even have their own takes on existing settings

#

in short, is basically both

south hearth
#

Where can I find more information about the updated Yuan-ti player race? I'm thinking of playing as one, and I wanted to make sure the character made sense in the established lore

iron saffron
#

Ask your DM about the yuan-ti lore in their campaign setting.

south hearth
#

I don't have a DM
I just like making characters for fun lol

iron saffron
#

Established lore in one official campaign setting may not mean it's official to a DM with their own homebrew world.

south hearth
#

Fair

severe storm
#

Question that's tangential to the dnd movie, though very brief. Are the ||red wizard blades actually a thing in lore, and do they do what they did in the movie? Aka no healing?||
Pings welcome

white ravine
severe storm
#

It does that, meaning that is how they work in FR lore, or just movie only?

white ravine
#

I'd assume FR lore because the movie's canon(?)

grim siren
#

They now have actual stat blocks too

autumn jungle
dark comet
#

So maybe I’m misreading this, but the Lords of Waterdeep are… boring, right?

I looked them up on FR wiki and it was a struggle to even get part way through the article.

What is supposed to be the “fun” of them? 😅

white ravine
#

They're not...boring I would say? But they're in the ballpark of the big 'political intrigue' type of story

#

To the usual bloodsoaked adventurer, they're not much of anything.

dark comet
#

But what’s the political intrigue? Like they’re not sleeping around, they aren’t actively spreading rumours, they don’t even seem to meet regularly? Maybe the article is just too thin and that’s what I’m missing??

white ravine
#

The big thing about them is that being a lord of waterdeep is a big deal given the power that position holds, and most of the people who would be on the council are very important figures before they got that position

#

The intrigue is less about what the lords of waterdeep are doing, and more who they are behind their masks.

#

Only one that's known is the Open Lord as the city's true 'leader'

dark comet
#

Gotchaaaaa. So it’s not really valuable to just go through that article. I need to dive into each individual and their drama. Okay, that tracks.

white ravine
#

Yeah, it's a consequence of having like...8 named NPCs in one group

dark comet
#

The article says there’s 20 of them, though it fluctuates between 16-29. 😭

white ravine
#

The 16-29 is mainly because they tend to get assassinated a lot

#

Afaik, in stable times it's an even 20

hazy fox
#

Since you just mentioned Open and Masked Lords of Waterdeep, I remembered a short story in Dragon 260 based on Forgotten Realms comic series in the 90's where Waterdahvian Paladin had a character from Kozakuran help him "comprehend some of the tangled politics of Kozakura" (part on one of two not!Japan lore about its Emperor-Shogun-Retired Emperor-Shikken/Shogun's Regent being incomprehensible for "outsiders", even if said Paladin by that point had already interacted and familiarized with his city's Open and Masked Lord along with its similiarly complex political system and web of alliance).
Keep in mind, it was played seriously and definitely not tongue-in-cheek...so "tone deaf" might be closest thing I can think of.
Yeah, part of me wonder why someone haven't made a parody on that world building discrepensies due to author's fascination with exotic yet ignorant about default setting's similiar aspects (which is something there should be discussion at some point).

silent notch
#

Anyone know lore that I don't know about Mask or related gods? I'm tryin' to learn all I can

hazy fox
silent notch
#

The Forgotten Realms god of thieves is named Mask. Who's the Masked Lord?

hazy fox
#

I thought you were talking about Waterdeep Masked Lords we were talking about.
Sorry, my mistake.

silent notch
#

No, that's probably my fault

#

Talking about different masks than the masks others were already talking about

severe storm
white ravine
#

Scary guy.

calm crest
#

Is there any information on the Mystaran wizard Gargantua, other than being responsible for the creation of the monsters of the same name?

iron saffron
drowsy wraith
#

How does magic work in the greyhawk setting? Does it have it's own version of the weave?

modest badger
#

Weave is more FR.
Greyhawk from what i recall doesn't go too much into it, but does have lore that implies that magic is gradually fading on Oerth. The 1e Greyhawk book is written as a diegetic 'historical education and RPG book' for peopl in that world, and notes that it's hard to imagine a time when magic still existed. (about 400 years after Greyhawk is set)

#

They also mention ley lines a lot, but it seems overall in Greyhawk, Magic is an ambient thing and potentially finite and limited. There is Boccob and Wee jas, dieties of magic, but they don't really have control over it like Mystra does. (Although.. Boccob might actually be magic given a face. He's an odd one)

modest badger
#

If you go with Greyhawk being the main setting of AD&D, so AD&D rules are Greyhawk rules unless stated otherwise, here is how magic was described in general:

All magic and cleric spells are similar in that the word sounds, when combined into whatever patterns are applicable, **are charged with energy from the Positive or Negative Material Plane. When uttered, these sounds cause the release of this energy, which in turn triggers a set reaction. **The release of the energy contained in these words is what causes the spell to be forgotten or the writing to disappear from the surface upon which it is written.
The triggering action draws power from some plane of the multiverse. Whether the spell is an abjuration conjuration, alteration, enchantment, or whatever, there is a flow of energy - first from the spell caster, then from some plane to the area magicked or enspelled by the caster. The energy flow is not from the caster per se, it is from the utterance of the sounds, each of which is charged with energy which is loosed when the proper formula and/or ritual is completed with their utterance. This power then taps the desired plane (whether or not the spell user has any idea of what or where it is) to cause the spell to function. It is much like plugging into a heater; the electrical outlet does not hold all of the electrical energy to cause the heater to function, but the wires leading from it, ultimately to the power station, bring the electricity to the desired location.
-1e DMG p40

drowsy wraith
#

Thank ya

forest sundial
#

Is there an argument to be made that an oath of vengeance paladin cannot be good alignment? specifically because of this:

By Any Means Necessary. My qualms can’t get in the way of exterminating my foes.

Does that mean if there's a demon lord and the only way to stop him is to commit war crimes, your oath says you have to do it, right? Say, waterboarding a cult leader for information for example, or fake surrendering, all that kind of stuff.

echo parcel
#

can someone briefly explain the fey courts for me in the forgotten realms setting

#

is it the seelie and unseelie

#

or have i got something wrong

obsidian gate
vital heron
obsidian gate
#

Weird

forest sundial
#

See I see it the other way:

You do warcrimes a lot (your oath says you have to) => you can't be good

You follow your oath very well => you are lawful

Idk how accurate this is, but in my head lawful is more "this is the way" and not "um actually according to paragraph 69 subsection 420"