#dnd-lore

1 messages · Page 12 of 1

rough fractal
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You guys ever read a piece of lore that makes you want to scrap all your campaign prep and move in a different direction?

crude blaze
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Nope

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Cuz I just ignore or overwrite whatever lore I don’t like

iron saffron
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Nope, ignore the lore if you don't like it.

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I've ignore most of the 4E FR lore.

rough fractal
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No, like I found lore I really like and it makes me want to scrap my current prep and do something different

crude blaze
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It would have to be a pretty egregious piece of lore for me to feel like it’s time to scrap a campaign and start fresh.

rough fractal
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I had previously been prepping for my game to head to Rashemen (they're currently in Neverwinter) but I learned why Mount Hotenow is a volcano and dealing with elementals threatening the safety of Neverwinter and my PC's home and the academy theyve spent all campaign establishing sounds radical

unkempt merlin
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I would think that it's threatening the safety of neverwinter. Considering it erupted and destroyed a bunch of the city/region

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thay, the worst typo for that when discussing FR lore

crude blaze
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People gotta stop building cities around volcanoes, man

unkempt merlin
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But the soil 😔

rough fractal
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Wait, Hotenow was the one that already erupted?

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Damn, I was thinking along the lines of "another volcano? Seriously?"

sterile breach
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Yeah, in 144x. Or maybe 146x.

grim siren
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I love Thay's obsession with the Sword Coast when there are dozens of nations between Thay and them they could have an easier time conquering

modest badger
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Mount Hotenow is a volcano because it's Hot Now /jk 😛

grim siren
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considering one Red Wizard conquered Vaasa for a long time. I feel like a good force could take the Bloodstone Lands pretty fast.

unkempt merlin
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But i know for sure the volcano of neverwinter is mentioned to have been exploded in the essentials kit stuff (its one of the plot contrivances for why things aren't happening)

iron saffron
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Neverwinter was almost completely destroyed in the mid-1400s (4E era) by Mount Hotenow.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mount_Hotenow#History

In the Year of Knowledge Unearthed, 1451 DR, a small adventuring party rediscovered the ancient dwarven city of Gauntlgrym beneath the volcano. The party, consisting of Dahlia Sin'felle, Korvin Dor'crae, Valindra Shadowmantle, Athrogate, and Jarlaxle Baenre, made it all the way to the legendary forges. There, the latter two were betrayed by their Thayan allies, with Athrogate hypnotically forced to activate the forge. This briefly awoke the primordial Maegera, who, in a fit of rage, released a burst of energy so powerful that it forced the eruption of the volcano. The resulting earthquake and combination of smoke and lava destroyed much of Neverwinter, killing thousands. The eruption entirely destroyed the settlement of Thundertree.

rough fractal
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I know about the volcanic destruction, I just didn't know it was that volcano. I thought the volcano was right under Neverwinter because it created the chasm

unkempt merlin
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Ah here we go, Storm Lord's Wrath as well

This city was badly damaged when Mount Hotenow erupted some fifty years ago.

rough fractal
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So what's the story with the chasm?

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Unrelated spellplague nonsense?

mystic merlin
rough fractal
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Nice. I have a second FR game coming up this summer starting just into Tier 3. Maybe that would be the place to get into elemental stuff

grim siren
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The chasm was caused by Hotenow seismic activity. And then it was filled with spell plague stuff. And the sealed IIRC

rough fractal
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I see

elder venture
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quick question are all settings such as forggoten relms eberron dragonlance grayhakw in the same universe

unkempt merlin
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Same multiverse in wotc canon

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Eberron is off on its own in its original canon

elder venture
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soyou ccant like sail to eberron from krynn in the

iron saffron
elder venture
modest badger
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Athas has been mentioned in one of the core books I believe.

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Older edition lore also had it so you couldn't spelljam to Athas anyway. One of the few places you couldn't.

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(Mostly because introducing Spelljamming to Athas would greatly undermine the premise of Dark Sun, and so they needed to nope that being a thing. But if you did somehow manage to crash a spelljammer into Athas, you almost certainly could never get back out again)

iron saffron
elder venture
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i see

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recently stradtefd reading hte old dark suns books

mystic merlin
iron saffron
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The Phlogiston was the turbulent and unstable stuff between Crystal Spheres. 5E Spelljammer got rid of it by replacing it with the Astral Sea (which makes no sense as the Astral plane connects the Material Plane with the Outer Plane).

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(I'm personally ignoring the use of the Astral Sea at my table)

serene crater
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Reading through this chat. It amazes me that as far as I know, a mountain was the closest thing that destroyed Neverwinter

iron saffron
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Because it was.

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Neverwinter was rebuilt in the 30+ years since.

pallid wadi
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Hey there! I'm planning to run a 5e campaign set in the Outer Planes, but I don't know much about them. Where can I get started so I can come up with campaign ideas?

iron saffron
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The PHB and DMG have info on the inner and outer planes of the Great Wheel cosmology.

pallid wadi
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Good news: I have both.

iron saffron
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the FR wiki is a great source to find citations of information you may want to look for.

pallid wadi
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Okay, I'm looking through that wiki, and WOW. How am I supposed to make sense of all this? There's just WAY too much content.

iron saffron
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Use what you want to use. What exactly are you looking for?

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The multiverse is big.

obsidian gate
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you arent supposed to read the wiki like a book. Something comes up and then you have a place to look it up

iron saffron
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The wiki is a reference. If you want more details then go to the sources it cites.

iron saffron
pallid wadi
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I'm trying to prepare a high level campaign.

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I just figured the Outer Planes would be the best place for that.

iron saffron
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Check out the 2E Planescape stuff. Sigil is the city in the centre of the Outer Planes, it connects to the rest of the Outer Planes via (secret and hidden "doors")

rough fractal
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Honestly I'd argue for the elemental planes

iron saffron
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Elemental planes are part of the Inner Planes. They're not very hospitable to mortals.

pallid wadi
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Yeah, these Outer Planes seem REALLY hard to keep track of. Like, quick, which school of magic has no effect in Mechanus?

And I'm supposed to just KNOW that?

rough fractal
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That's what I'm saying, I'd argue inner over outer

iron saffron
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Yes, that's your job as DM. Take notes.

rough fractal
pallid wadi
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You actually guessed correctly. Damn. Nice.

rough fractal
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Well yeah, it's THE plane of Lawful

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Feels like the obvious answer

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Look, here's how I use Forgotten Realms and the wiki. Look at a map. For you, a map of the planes. Point to something that looks interesting. Read about that one thing until you come up with a neat conflict. If a conflict doesn't jump out to you, read a new thing

pallid wadi
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Okay, first thing that's springing out to me:
Apparently, one origin of the Raven Queen was that she was originally just a sorceress who managed to overthrow the former tyrant of Pluton.
What if, say, the party helped with that revolution in the first place?

elder venture
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is ravenloft in teh shadowfell

iron saffron
elder venture
magic jackal
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Where's that coming from?

pallid wadi
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From the Forgotten Realms wiki.

elder venture
crude blaze
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Other things

obsidian gate
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a lot of it is a twisted echo of the material plane

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then there is the palace of the raven queen

magic jackal
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Well in the same way that the Feywild is a reflection of the Material World, the Shadowfell also is. There's a number of cities, some of which were captured and brought into the Shadowfell, others of which are just reflections of their counterpart cities in the Material. And there's a number of small Divine Domains that exist in the Shadowfell (one of which is the Raven Queen's)

crude blaze
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(In 5E, I think there’s a suggestion that the Raven Queen has a base in Ravenloft as well.)

magic jackal
crude blaze
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I like to think of the domains of dread as being sort of bubbles in the big ol’ bath water that is the Shadowfell.

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There’s stuff outside and between them, but they’re still floating around in there causing a commotion.

iron saffron
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Think of the Domains of Dredd like New York City is to New York State...

magic jackal
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The mist is what keeps them separate yeah?

crude blaze
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Yep

wooden token
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what's the difference between metallic and color dragons?

iron saffron
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Metallic dragons tend to be good-aligned and serve Bahamut the Platinum Dragon.
Chromatic dragons tend to be evil-aligned and serve Tiamat the Five-headed Dragon

wooden token
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oh, so are there basically heads/bosses of the types of dragons that exist?

who is bahamut and tiamat? what is their significance in the world/lore?

iron saffron
mystic merlin
# pallid wadi Yeah, these Outer Planes seem REALLY hard to keep track of. Like, quick, which s...

Not as such, no, but it’s supposed to be forward accesible when you decide to do a game there.

There is a heavy bit of prep required even for off the cuff stuff. If a player wishes themselves into a situation you have nothing before you can wing it but, I find it’s best to come back later with what’s there and why what they found was different, in situations like this where maybe the illusionist was going ham in mechanus

mystic merlin
mystic merlin
echo parcel
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hi

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for krynn, can anyone direct me to a source of wizards allive about 350 AC? nvm i found one

echo parcel
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if anyone comes across this and is looking for one tbere is one called Whyan near Kallaman

foggy seal
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Does the Raven Queen ever speak to people or manifest herself physically in the world?

magic jackal
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I think so, but she remains utterly inscrutable.

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I mean she sends the shadar-kai all over, and she does occasionally communicate with other Gods and she holds several divine domains in the Shadowfell

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such as her Fortress of Memories

sharp seal
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Apparently this channel exists.
Is there anything in official lore (such as eberron or forgotten realms) for how holy symbols work, how they are created, whether or not they need to relate to a specific deity, or if my paladin can create her own holy symbol that isn't tied to any god?

unkempt merlin
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tldr: a paladin doesn't need a god and a holy symbol is more or less what you make of it

iron saffron
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5E paladins don't need a god. Work with your DM if you want to use a god as a patron or just have the oath be all the faith you need to fuel your divine powers.

white ravine
# sharp seal Apparently this channel exists. Is there anything in official lore (such as ebe...

1: It's pretty straightforward of how they work, instead of using material components you channel power through the object itself
2: It's not hard to create them, but the main caveat is they need a direct blessing from a god, god-like being, or servant of the former.
3: They typically need to relate, but it's more to establish the connection. There's no 'universal' holy symbol but getting a holy symbol for the being you need it from can't be hard.
4: A godless holy symbol could work on the grounds of being a 'servant' to their power, which would sort of classify? It's DM dependent but honestly this is more information you'll ever need to use a holy symbol.

mystic merlin
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A holy symbol has to stand for something. Generally, something that exists and is real and understood. You can have a symbol that is more symbolic but you should work with your DM first.

rocky tundra
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what is the worst that Asmodeus can do to me if I signed a contract to serve him when he's in need

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and

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I run away

white ravine
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Breaking a devil contract against the by definition smartest being in DND's existence...yeah no, you're gonna be in a torture hole for the rest of existence in Baator.

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I have no mouth and I must scream levels of bad.

rocky tundra
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well damn

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my character is a Warforged

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not that it helps at all

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just noting it

white ravine
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I don't think the fact you die slower to poison would be a good thing dndLol

buoyant sage
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is there a lore reason why ember from Dragonlance has a messed up arm? on one side she has an arm and a wing then on the other for her art it looks like her arm and wing are fused together? i was wondering if there was a reason for that or no.

hazy apex
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i have a headcanon that vecna saying he spoke to the serpent is like (TOH) ||belos saying he can speak to the titan||

latent forum
rocky tundra
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Warforged do technically have souls but

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in my campaign I do not

latent forum
rocky tundra
eager bay
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Have you guys ever wondered about the Feywild and the Shadowfell? Because I have. Wondering how to include them in the cosmos of my world. Wondering how they fit ideologically. They're both pretty vague.

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The Shadowfell is described basically just as bleak and depressing, while the Feywild is only described as wilder and more vivid. not very helpful. To solve this mystery I ask what is the opposite of a shadow? What IS a shadow?

iron saffron
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It depends on the cosmology you're using at your table.

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The Great Wheel cosmology is the "default" one.

eager bay
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What happens when you shine a light at an object? 3 things. Some of the light is reflected. Some is absorbed. And none (if the object is opaque) makes it through. The reflection is the light bouncing off the object. It creates an image but is not necessarily accurate. Too bright. When no light makes it through, it creates negative space. Also, forming an image, but again, not accurate. Too dark.

iron saffron
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If you want greater details of the various planes I would recommend the Manual of the Planes books from past editions. The Feywild and Shadowfell were only added in 4E though.

eager bay
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Like the 3 material planes. One image too bright, one image too dark. Leaving the prime material plane as the object.

iron saffron
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The Shadowfell and Feywild are essentially "echoes" of the Material Plane.

eager bay
iron saffron
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Think of the Shadowfell like the Upside-Down World in Stranger Things.

eager bay
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Echoes, or maybe a shadow and a reflection

iron saffron
eager bay
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Mhm

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This is a hypothesis based on that official lore

iron saffron
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So read those links to get an idea what the Shadowfell and Feywild are.

eager bay
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No I know what they are in canon my point is, it's not clear what their metaphysical significance is

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And I had an idea about that

white ravine
eager bay
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Yeah. I think thematically though it's more related to light specifically than just energy.

white ravine
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It's the link between the positive and negative energy planes respectively, in a similar way to the elemental planes but...different.

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Radiant vs Necrotic, Negentropy vs Entropy, Light vs Dark, all the same

eager bay
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Now that does make sense, but it really doesn't explain why the Feywild is chaotically aligned

stuck breach
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Because fey are chaotic in nature

eager bay
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The feywild itself is

magic jackal
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What's the Feywild represent? The opposite of the Shadowfell, which is Decay, Death, Stagnancy, Shadow.
It represents Life, Energy, Chaos, Light.

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Hence it is categorically opposed to the concepts of stagnancy and death, so it's full of life and energy and chaos. Its native inhabitants also reflect this in their chaotic natures.

spark haven
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See, my understanding of the Feywild is that it's a place where stories, or perhaps words themselves, hold disproportionate power. "Can I have your name?" has drastically different consequences in the feywild than the material. As opposed to planes like the Abyss, the Positive/Negative planes where they're aligned on some cartesian grid

magic jackal
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Similar to that however, an individuals' strong emotions and such can influence the environment and denizens of the feywild to a certain degree.

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Fey that originate in the Feywild tend to be more naturally magically gifted

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and Arcane Magic tends to be stronger but more unpredictable there.

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And there's the whole time displacement thing which can happen in the Feywild (and also the Shadowfell)

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(I'm referring to FR in this context)

eager bay
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Technically stranger things is canon to D&D with the collab they did

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Soo

iron saffron
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No.

eager bay
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Yeees

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Alternate ooniverse

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😁😁😁

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Due to multiple Vecnas across the multiverse spreading followers

magic jackal
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Yeah I don't think that's ever stated in the show

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In fact I think the only reason they use D&D Monster Names because the kids were D&D Nerds and used Monster Names as shorthand for the monsters they encountered

eager bay
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Yes but dnd made a official stranger things themed game set

white ravine
iron saffron
eager bay
# white ravine That's the neat part, it isn't. Fey are neutral + (insert alignment here)

Chaotic Fey: Annis Hag, Autumn Eladrin, Bheur Hag, Boggle, Darklings, Dolphin Delighter, Korred, Nereid, Nilbog, Quickling, Redcap, Reflection, Satyr, Sea Hag, Siren, Spring Eladrin, Summer Eladrin, Winter Eladrin. Less than I thought it would be actually. Especially for bigger ones like sprite, pixie, dryad, etc. But you can't look at this list and tell me fey aren't chaotic. There are more chaotic fey than not. And furthermore, basically all their gods are chaotic to some degree, and any investigation into the lore of the Feywild, will further prove it's chaotic nature. Namely that everything is confusing and changes all the time, constant partying, as well as the connection to Arboria. Not to mention the fact that usually in dnd, anything wild or natural, especially if its supernaturally wild, is automatically chaotic.

white ravine
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Positive and Negative energy are both necessary but also dangerous. The feywild is arguably more dangerous than some outer planes as a result.

calm sparrow
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I need some consulting! I have been a DM for a while now and i want to try out the prewritten Adventure Modules that take place in the Forgotten Realms.
And i need someone to give me some tips on what adventure to buy, maybe in a VC where i can explain what i want.
Thank you all!

dull barn
alpine magnet
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Their game is a part of the dnd multiverse, but they themselves are not

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Will the Wise is a part of the dnd multiverse, Will Byers is not

magic jackal
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We have a number of established official settings that we generally talk about here. Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, etc.

alpine magnet
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Yep

iron saffron
dull barn
# iron saffron And? The show isn't part of the game.

I just loooove when somebody passive aggressively uses the 'And' on me. Anyway, I thought the person was specifically saying the stranger things actual d&d game was canon, didn't realise they were saying the actual show is canon

iron saffron
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They were implied the show, Stranger Things.

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You were trying to tell me something I've known for the past 40+ years.

magic jackal
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I don't even think you were passive aggressive tbh.

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"And?" is just shorthand for asking for elaboration on a statement that doesn't seem to make sense. (Sometimes rhetorical)

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going off like "I just loooove x" and then immediately moving on like you didn't just ask for conflict with "anyways" is passive aggressive.

eager bay
stuck breach
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Note that it's the Feywild and not the Feymild

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Well, there is the Stranger Things Starter Set

slate egret
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🥶

mystic merlin
runic totem
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In the forgotten realms, is anything happening around the dragon of icepire peak years, like1495 DR? It feels like there's nothing happening and the world is just a background right now, I'll probably add stuff but I'm wondering if anything already exists.

unkempt merlin
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a large number of the adventures in the FR are within like, a 10year time range from that point

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specifically relevant to that adventure (or at least tangentially), the volcano of neverwinter exploded within the past few decades

runic totem
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Volcanoes are good for farming right

iron saffron
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Neverwinter was rebuilt in the 40+ years since

raven needle
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there was also the second sundering

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and depending on how you want to run the timeline, the forge of souls was rediscovered and reopened in the previously lost mine of phandelver

surreal latch
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Hey does anybody have any advice for playing an artificer in the Forgotten Realms backstory-wise? Talking to my DM and we're trying to decide what area would make sense for my character to come from and just generally what areas in the Forgotten Realms are technologically more advanced

iron saffron
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Lantan

clear pine
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What year does Keep of the Shadowfell happens?

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(specifically asking for the FR conversion)

rough fractal
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I've had this same issue with figuring out FR artificers

zenith dust
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hey Simon!

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Artificers aren't really like, steampunk inventor types, they're more like Celebrimbor or Sauron

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they make normal things but magical

iron saffron
zenith dust
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rather than like helicopters and nuclear weapons

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Artificer was in 3.5 (in Eberron)

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and much like in 4/5e, the focus was making normal things into magical things

rough fractal
iron saffron
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Gond is the primary god worshipped in Lantan, so that place is most likely to have artificers.

zenith dust
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well - they were created for eberron, and in eberron, they make mundane things magical

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this is the lore channel, remember 🙂

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in Faerun I'm not sure, they kinda just let wizards do everything

rough fractal
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So I'm trying to find a way players can maintain their flavor without sticking out like a sore thumb in world. I didn't know if there was anywhere on the planet, even far away, that might be similar in technology to, say, the Netherese

iron saffron
cedar sonnet
rough fractal
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I know the Netherese had like flying cities and other nonsense so I figured that would totally fit the artificer, but they're super dead

rough fractal
iron saffron
rough fractal
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So how did they achieve such heights of magical technology without anyone who could...develop and manipulate magic technology?

stuck breach
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Do keep in mind that Faerun was created before Ebberon was

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Faerun has existed longer than D&D has and well before the Artificer class has

rough fractal
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So with modern mechanics, many of those wizards might've very well been interpreted as artificers instead?

stuck breach
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Faerun as a 5e setting has existed as such longer than the artificer class has in 5e

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As non-core-3 books, the Ebberon Guide and Tasha's are considred to be optional content a priori

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Artificers do not automatically exist in D&D by default

rough fractal
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Okay I understand I can just say no, but I'm actively trying to be more flexible for my players because I know I run very rigid settings

stuck breach
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So, just open your world up to artificers

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it's easy

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Be more flexible

rough fractal
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Oh man, I didn't think about that

stuck breach
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There's little reason why magical tinkerers shouldn't exist

rough fractal
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I could just...be more flexible?

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Baffling that I didn't figure that out earlier

stuck breach
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There have always been unusual arcane technologies in D&D, the artificer class just codifies it more

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And, as PCs are unusual heroic individuals, being something odd and/or unique is par for the course

rough fractal
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Okay. So moral of the story, there is no one that has come near the magical technology of the Netherese since their fall

iron saffron
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Dragonlance had gnome tinkerers.

iron saffron
rough fractal
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Okay, I understand Netherese weren't artificers but they had flying cities and made magical artifacts. Has anyone else succeeded in getting near their abilities or successes

iron saffron
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That's magic, not magitech

zenith dust
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they weren't the mecahnical class artificers

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but that doesn't mean they didn't make magical artifacts

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remember player character classes are mostly combat features. artificers make temporary enhancements to things. all those magic items you see in the DMG were made by NPCs somewhere back in time

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there aren't any artificer features that allow permanent creation of those items - that's a non-class-feature endeavor

rough fractal
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Cool. I understand that. Has anyone else made those achievements since?

iron saffron
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What achievements?

zenith dust
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probably!

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I imagine it's been happening the whole time

rough fractal
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That is my entire question. Forget the artificer stuff. The question is simply "hey, the Netherese did some awesome stuff with magic and magic items, including flying cities and rad artifacts. Have any other civilizations since made similar strides in enchanting and creating magic items or flying cities or similar magic?"

iron saffron
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Floating castles/towers? Halruaa

rough fractal
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Okay, cool. I'll look into Halruaa

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Who, other than Thayans, are the most magically advanced in the late 1400s?

iron saffron
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Scroll up. I mentioned that Halruaa are the descendants of the Netherese

rough fractal
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Like as a society

rough fractal
iron saffron
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Halruaa would take offense to that statement.

iron saffron
rough fractal
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Yeah

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Okay, fine. So Halruaa and Thay are the top dogs rn?

iron saffron
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They're not as arrogant as the Netherese. The Wizard-King is the most powerful diviner in Faerun.

rough fractal
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Do we have any 1400s info on Halruaa? Most recent I see is 1370s

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Never mind, I'm seeing Second Sundering stuff

stuck breach
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What if your PC artificer was from the past

iron saffron
# rough fractal Do we have any 1400s info on Halruaa? Most recent I see is 1370s

There isn't much on Halruaa post 3E other than the kingdom teleport itself to Abeir during the Spellplague and then back to Faerun afterwards
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Halruaa

It's ruled by the wizard-king Zalathorm Kirkson who's a few hundred years old due to a longevity spell he invented. He died at the end of the Magehound novel but was resurrected.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Zalathorm_Kirkson

muted ruin
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Hey there !

My PC's are going to try and kill Vlaakith CLVII for the next ark after 3 years in the campaign. To do so they must first steal her phylactery from Tiamat's Hoard (or try to negociate it, but I don't see that happening). They have the support of the Sha'sal Khou, and some custom NPCs and I am looking for a list of powers and factions that might aid or oppose them. Especially some lesser known ones. (I know what to do with Archdevils, Illithids, Vecna, Acererak, some demon lords (Abraxas, Baphomet, Orcus are already factored in). I just wouldn't want to miss out on some concerned party that I could have overlooked. (I'm not huge on Githzerai lore for instance, even though I'm reading up on them).

Thanks in advance.

mystic merlin
# rough fractal Okay, I understand Netherese weren't artificers but they had flying cities and m...

No, because the secret of their tech is locked behind an angry god.

They use Mythalars, engines of magic cultivation and distribution that created a network of enhanced power throughout their territory. The creation of a mythalar requires a tenth level spell, and was often (iirc) the first test of a new high wizard; to see if they could pull it off and cast the spell that cut a mountain in half and levitated the top of it as a new flying island.
(The creation of the mythalar May just be lost and the city creation was separate?)

Elven High Magic can and has competed with what Netheril could do, but it’s filtered through elven sensibilities where doing a big flashy thing for yourself is often wasteful compared to doing something long lasting and far reaching to improve the quality of life of all your people

mystic merlin
# rough fractal Okay, fine. So Halruaa and Thay are the top dogs rn?

Yeah, Thay has a similar thing. There’s some sort of (naturally occurring?) engine of magic in Thaymount, a big driving engine, almost, that provides a slow and subtle push. To the point that if the whole mage class just disappeared, then in a few generations there would be a new society, a magocracy or similar, reaching seemingly identical heights of magic and arcane study.

Also notable that what makes both Halruaa and Thay work is they’re cooperative (casters). So that’s cool

rough fractal
white ravine
clear pine
# rough fractal Okay, I understand Netherese weren't artificers but they had flying cities and m...

You don't actually need to be an artificer to create magic items, infact by the rules you don't even need to be a caster unless the item you are trying to make will cast a spell, so you need the caster who can cast this spell(eg: scrolls, wand of fireballs). Essentially, artificers are not THE magic items creators, they are THE BEST magic items creators since they can create and attune to items better than anyone.

tough leaf
#

Hey there, I'm kinda lost and looking for a proper official dnd monster for backstory reasons. Does anyone have any good ideas for a low level group of creatures that would catch a group of adventurers and proceed to eat them one by one over a course of few days?

iron saffron
tough leaf
#

Will do

stuck breach
worn hull
#

no, you're more likely to thank the Kobolds for any below level 4 shenanigans of that sort @tough leaf

#

Lizardfolk and bullywugs would have a draw for second most likely to be responsible for the aforementioned shenanigans

tough leaf
#

After talking to some people i was thinking about a hag with something like a group of kobolds or something of same caliber

stuck breach
#

I'd probably pair goblins with hags personally

tough leaf
#

it will be a lvl 5 character (mine just died yesterday)

stuck breach
#

Goblins are kind of fey adjacent

worn hull
#

hag would be closer to level 7, and hag coven would be around level 10. unless suffering from a recent battle with pesky paladins or annoying clerics

tough leaf
#

sorry if mine is a bit of a trivial question btw

worn hull
#

not trivial, mildly interesting for storytelling

white ravine
north vault
#

By hags actually

autumn sapphire
#

So, question. A DnD char goes to an afterlife that fits their god or alignment, correct?

If a husband and a wife were one step of alignment off from each other, like LG and NG when they died, would they just never see each other again?

unkempt merlin
#

Depends on the setting for where they go

#

any specific setting in question?

autumn sapphire
#

I was just thinking generic Forgotten Realms

#

I think the elemental planes mingle in between them. Maybe the alignment planes have some areas like that too, for one step?

iron saffron
#

They would go to their god's domain, not the plane that fit their alignment.

#

In FR lore, the proxies of the gods would pick up the deceased's soul and guide them to the gods' domain.

white ravine
#

If they believe in a deity, thats their first destination.
If they believe in multiple, the most fittingly aligned deity takes them.
If they dont believe in a deity, then uhhhh...bad. Very bad.

mystic merlin
#

Maybe an ogre, but definitely a giant that’s big enough to grapple and restrain in such a. Way you can describe it just picking up a whole human like a assume burrito and just opening its mouth super wide…

mystic merlin
# white ravine If they believe in a deity, thats their first destination. If they believe in mu...

Now that’s interesting. Do you think it’s “You go where you think you should and get judged accordingly before being sent elsewhere sometimes”?

Also, this is a bit of a misleading statement because everyone believes in most gods. Nobody like, goes through life thinking “it’s just Azuth for me!”, you recognize Azuth for studying exams, Moradin for help with crafting, Oghma for memory, Mystra for the mystical, Selune for love and ardor, Tyr for justice, all equally valid and real. Just not equally applicable to your life overall.

white ravine
#

And it's definitely possible to worship only one deity (if it may be foolish), I guess saying believe is a bit incorrect. Not believing in gods is crazy talk

wanton arch
#

Hey lol how do portals work in planescape?

#

Like what's with the feathers the book mentions, I never found the explanation

mystic merlin
raven needle
mystic merlin
raven needle
#

they don't disbelieve. they'll be polite. they won't worship though

mystic merlin
#

I think that’s going to depend on which meaning of worship we mean, but sure.

I’m not sure why we are extrapolating out from dedicated priests though. You said “they don’t disbelieve”. I said “[…] all equally valid and real. Just not as applicable to your life overall [as your patron]”.

tawdry plover
#

What colour are goblins?

paper stream
#

Any colour you want them to be

#

but classically green

modest badger
#

In D&D actually yellows

#

Pathfinder and WoW are green goblins.

iron saffron
#

Yellow, orange, and red hues.

modest badger
#

See 5e Volo's and MM art for the yellow toned goblins.
5e MPMM has a goblin with red hair and greenish grey skin.

Goblins range from yellow through dull orange to brick red in skin color. Their eyes are reddish to lemon yellow.
-1e Monster Manual

Their skin colors range from yellow through any shade of orange to a deep red. Usually a single tribe has members all of about the same color skin.
-2e Monster Manual

Goblin hides range in color from yellow through orange to red, and members of the same trbe usually share similar coloring
-Races of Faerun, 3.5

A member of the goblin species has skin of yellow, orange, or red, often shading to brown.
-Goblinoids, Monster Manual, 4e
(The art depicts goblins with green tones though)

#

I have seen art for blue goblins though as well (I think there are also 'special' blue goblins, but I recall Dungeon Magazine having art for just bright blue normal goblins).

So lore wise- typically yellows, oranges and reds. But greens and blues are also not unheard of.

#

I'm not sure 5e ever actually states their colouration but I might be missing something.

unkempt merlin
#

Goblin skin tones seems to vary heavily based on setting and origins in 5e

#

Mostly green to yellow shades from memory though

modest badger
#

Most art in 5e from what I recall depicts them with yellow-orange shades. Rarely green.
MM, Volo, Tasha (p.48, 145, 178), Out of the Abyss, Lost Mines of Phandelver depict them with yellow tones.
Eberron depicts them with yellow skin tone too it seems.

I think really only MPMM has a greenish goblin and it could be lighting in that art that make 'dark yellow' appear green, and fanart for things like AI and CR?

unkempt merlin
#

It's worth noting the settings of those with yellow vs green

#

Goblins in Wildemount are green

modest badger
#

I think Ravinica is also green?

unkempt merlin
#

Green and red explicitly per their description

modest badger
#

But in genera D&D goblins are yellows-browns, as they've been described and depicted in editions since 1e. But some newer settings in 5e have swapped to the more popularised green goblins. (I think AI actually depicts goblins as yellow toned, but introduced those verdan peeps to have the green goblin vibe)

CR depicts their goblins as green though. So CR goblins and MTG setting goblins tend to be more greenish.

true saffron
#

Why are they green?

iron saffron
#

Photosynthesis.

true saffron
#

Yeah, sure. Lol

odd ember
#

I always imagine goblins as green littolshy

eager bay
#

In my head canon, all goblins are the pathfinder depictions of goblins TBF

rough fractal
#

I struggle to imagine them as yellow and often have to remind myself that goblins aren't cute green buddies

crude blaze
#

I’ve described them as being in a lot of earthen tones, mostly due to their origins of sneaking around in forests. But I believe there’s art to support both.

unkempt merlin
#

Meanwhile I've got them being gray, green, and blue

rough fractal
#

Hey, question. I want to bring in some old school villains for a high level D&D game. FR ones are great, but with how many individuals have traveled from Greyhawk to Forgotten Realms I'm happy with Oerth ones that can be converted (like Warduke). Obscure ones are great, I just really want to move away from Vecna and Szass Tam being everyone's problem. This will takes place right after DiA, so non-fiends if possible

#

I might even bring Lord Soth over from Dragonlance

grim siren
#

Soth works great since he is also in Ravenloft

#

There is also Natasha, and her son Iuz which you could use.

#

If you want a lesser used FR villain look into Manshoon of the Zhentarim, he is mentioned in Dragonheist and then there is the current leader of the Zhentarim, the Pereghost

iron saffron
#

Iggwilv travels the Multiverse. She's the on again/off again lover of Graz'zt (they have a love-hate relationship)

grim siren
#

Ooo there is also Acererak from ToA he is OG greyhawk

iron saffron
#

Tuerny the Merciless is a nalfeshnee is a big villain from Greyhawk

grim siren
#

Tuerny. They killed so many of my PCs

rough fractal
#

Tuerny? That sounds interesting

iron saffron
#

I was going to have him as the main villain for the personal side quest for the bladesinging wizard PC but the player left the table for personal family matters. I had used elements from the Return of the Eight and the Vale of the Mage (both Greyhawk modules) and integrate them into Halruaa (and the Haath valley)

white ravine
rough fractal
#

Just checked out Ygorl and Tuerny. Anything more down to earth?

white ravine
#

Elemental evils work well

#

Imix, ogremoch...the other two...

modest badger
#

Olhydra and... Uh. Windy one. >.>

#

Yan-C-Ban. I wanted to go with Yancy and thought that couldn;t be right for a big scary villain so had to look it up

white ravine
#

Yan-C-Bin...no wonder I forgot his name, thats such a terrible name that probably has some significance thats lost on me

mint ravine
#

I like how he looks and his abilities but the name is sooo stupid. I had trouble keeping things serious when introducing him in our PotA game

mystic merlin
#

Late to the party but blue and purple-blue goblins are psychic.

mystic merlin
#

Alas. No good smoke kitty gif wigglepensive

honest tree
#

does the word "Janklee" has any specific meaning?

sterile breach
#

"Blessings" is what I've found.

honest tree
#

thank you

eager bay
#

Is it just me, or do druidic magic (druids and rangers) and ki powers seem similar enough that they could be incorporated into a single system?

#

similar in nature, not mechanically necessarily

iron saffron
#

Just you.

magic jackal
#

Could you explain your thought process more? Because they don't seem similar at all to me.

iron saffron
#

Ki = inner power
Druidic magic = from nature / nature deity.

modest badger
#

Although one could have a discussion over how Ki and cultivation really could be applied to any class and not just monk, and going back to the source you could explore things like physical and spiritual cultivation. An Artificer who uses qi to empower talismans and artifices. A necromancer who uses 'resentful energy' (Heyo Wei Wuxian).
But that's more a 'general' discussion as this is not the official lore of D&D.

crude blaze
#

Ki also has a deeper meaning that speaks from the culture it was based on. They explained it pretty well in Candlekeep Mysteries.

#

In Candlekeep Mysteries, it’s mentioned as less of a mystical power and more with its strong ties to elemental air and breath.

iron saffron
#

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/classes#TheMagicofKi

Monks make careful study of a magical energy that most monastic traditions call ki. This energy is an element of the magic that suffuses the multiverse — specifically, the element that flows through living bodies. Monks harness this power within themselves to create magical effects and exceed their bodies’ physical capabilities, and some of their special attacks can hinder the flow of ki in their opponents.

sour trout
#

Would it make sense for cultists of Orcus to have access to generic fiend/demon minions, or would it mostly just be undead?

iron saffron
#

Sure.

sour trout
#

I wasn't sure if Orcus has the same demonic hierarchy thing going on, since he's so closely tied to the undead

clever plank
rough fractal
#

So with elven spirits and reincarnation and such and the awkward position it puts half-elves in, are half-elves ever the product of two elves?

#

An elf spirit being punished by Corellon or an elf born without a spirit and therefore being a half-elf or whatever?

hallow pawn
#

No.

rough fractal
#

So it isn't a tiefling situation?

#

Like being cursed with a half-elf or anything?

hallow pawn
#

No.

#

Half-elf is always human and elf mix.

rough fractal
#

Huh. So where did the theology around them being punished elf spirits come from?

hallow pawn
#

Where does it say that?

#

Ah,I found it in Tome of Foes

#

It just says it's a belief elves have and no God has ever comfrimed.

#

Elves in different communities and across different worlds have numerous ideas about the nature of the disruption, because the gods have never given an answer that seems applicable to all.

#

It's not that the disrupted soul causes the half elf its they believe making a half elf disrupts the soul.

#

And even that thought isn't a proven fact, it's just a belief about the nature of elf souls.

molten osprey
#

I finished a campaign last year where I had the party playing second fiddle to a war between Iuz and Ivid the Undying and they had to figure out how to keep Ivid from killing iuz and stealing Iuz's divinity. Set in the 590's

#

Ivid is a great bad guy, just try to find the pdf for Ivid the undying that never got printed

viscid jackal
#

larloch is FR, kargoth is .. greyhawk i think? , azalin i only know from ravenloft

molten osprey
#

Rary the Betrayer and Robilar

#

although the original player of Robilar is pretty adamant about them not being evil and not liking that plot twist

serene crater
#

Quick question, but are gods able to take on different genders with their avatars

molten osprey
#

if they choose, why not

white ravine
#

They can. Corellon is well known for being ambiguous with his identity.

molten osprey
#

lol, yeah, that wouldn't fly with her

serene crater
#

I ask as i had an idea to go a marvels lady death approach with Bhaal, though he'd only use it as a ruse for a bbeg

white ravine
#

Oh well disguises are a whole other thing, if thats your plan

molten osprey
#

Could use Lovitar or Shar

#

idk if Bhaal would go through the trouble, he's pretty straight forward. His avatar forms are hideous 30' monstrosities aren't they

#

Interloping Weejas? If Vecna can screw around in Sigil and decide to take up residence in FR, she can

stuck breach
#

In many of the world's mythologies, gods appear in any number of forms, though some gods are more known for shape changing than others

sour trout
#

Why is the amount of lore published for 5e so feeble compared to 2nd and 3.5?

unkempt merlin
#

Because 5e releases about a 3rd as many books (might actually be closer to a quarter as many)

#

And doesn't really have many novels

zenith dust
#

Plus a lot of the lore is just the same lore (see: eberron)

serene crater
#

That and they're trying to scrap the concept of canon

molten osprey
#

the number of supplements was part of the reason TSR fell, they're probably trying to avoid that trap, but they had to reprint lots for 3/3.5 because those were the first WoTC books, and maybe because lots of us saw what they tried with the 4e lore revamp and decided that we didn't need anymore of their lore updates 🙂

unkempt merlin
molten osprey
#

i forgot about the novels, there were so many back in the 2e days

sour trout
#

It's just annoying to have to go back to previous editions for details and wonder if the information there is outdated

#

I'm consulting the Fiendish Codex from 3.5 for information on demonic incursions, but I don't know if the stuff there has been superseded somewhere else

#

I know the tome of foes goes into the blood war to some extent

stuck breach
unkempt merlin
#

But your table canon supercedes anything written down

mystic merlin
mystic merlin
mystic merlin
#

This is really cool from the perspective that elves are fey and “half elves” are actually fey-touched humans mutated by faerie energy and what that implies.

This is really gross and weird from the counting blood quantum perspective and how much the attitudes of the complete book of elves seems to jive with American racisms

mystic merlin
mystic merlin
white ravine
sour trout
#

to be fair, there are some real yikes-bombs in Gygax's stuff

white ravine
#

I mean yeah, but its the literary equivalent of burning a pair of pants because it got some mud on the bottom.

sour trout
#

it would be fine if they were better about organizing lore for 5e

#

like, they have a bad habit of making adventure modules fill in for setting books

#

the mountains of previous lore should be treated as an asset, not an obstacle. Digest it down and modernize it into coherent themed compendiums

iron saffron
#

As DM you can handwave lore that you don't like. I've ignored a lot of the 4E FR stuff at my table (5E retconned a lot of that stuff too like the lands of Halruaa and Chult appearing back as they were pre-Spellplague).

sour trout
#

The gods got grounded. Again.

mystic merlin
mystic merlin
sour trout
#

That's one thing I specifically dislike, though. I hate having to read through adventure modules to get setting information.

#

I don't want to have to read through an adventure I'm not going to run in order to get the lore hidden away in a map key on area Q43

iron saffron
#

Well, that's 5E campaign books for you — WotC made them hybrid so DMs who just want the lore (see the two Waterdeep books) will have to buy the adventures to get the lore. That's what I did — I don't care much for the 5E adventures but I bought the books for the lore.

sour trout
#

And even then, the lore is sometimes nonsensical. For example, are Nimblewrights common in Waterdeep? One section of the adventure says there's a parade full of them. Another says the characters will only find four in the whole city.

iron saffron
#

I don't like the 5E version of Nimblewrights. The 3E version were great assassins that could use change self to disguise themselves.

mystic merlin
sour trout
#

Not always. I definitely found that not to be the case with Dragon Heist

#

I haven't read the Dragonlance one.

mystic merlin
mystic merlin
sour trout
#

Dragon Heist is a fun idea and setting but very poorly executed. It needs a lot of touch-up work.

mystic merlin
#

Actually

#

Maybe Dragonheist suffers because it doesn’t get to distill a whole new world down to a few chapters? Maybe it being the world you “already know” brings it down?

#

Regardless, I think this is a catch 22.

sour trout
#

I'm actually running Witchlight, so I've read it thoroughly and I'm not sure how well it would serve as a setting book without the adventure

mystic merlin
#

We don’t want to read a bunch of adventures to know the lore

But reading a bunch of lore books instead isn’t any better, and is measurably worse; having ten adventures with lore in them and having ten lore books with hooks in them give you about the same amount of usable background lore, but one provides adventures and the other goes “make it up yourself”

sour trout
#

I think that's a false dichotomy. You can organize the most salient existing lore into just a few themed books

stuck breach
#

They're not going to produce books of pure lore for 5e tho

iron saffron
#

That's what DMs Guild is for. WotC will let third party like Ed Greenwood do all the work while collecting royalties. It's a win-win for them.

molten osprey
#

my real problem with 5e lore isn't really about the lore, it's that my newer players can't be bothered to learn any of it on their own for their characters. Your ridiculous 3 page essay about your level 1 bard's tragic teen angst and such is fine, but what city was he in, what country, what dieties does he pander to, why doesn't he know the difference between Evereska and Silverymoon.

#

I wonder if it's because the lore isn't as available, players aren't expected to buy adventure books

iron saffron
#

My players have access to FR wiki and they do their homework for the most part.

molten osprey
#

I should be more fair, not all my new players are that bad, it is a noticeable trend though, and I hate being that "Back in my day..." guy

rough fractal
#

I've been very explicit with my current party about research expectations and I've found them to be doing their job, and where one player doesn't want to another picks up the slack

rough fractal
#

Ah, question. The wiki lists Silverymoon as a constitutional magocratic republic, but other than the High Marshall I don't remember anything in SCAG about representatives, a council, or legislative or electorate process. Can someone explain that to me a bit?

hallow pawn
#

Don't they vote for high mage?

#

I don't think it's a representative democracy like the US.

rough fractal
#

I honestly just don't know

honest tree
#

is there any specific reason the road alongside the neverwinter is called "the high road"?

rough fractal
#

Probably a hill? That's my guess

honest tree
#

I was looking at the map and it's alongside the coastal area, unless it's elevated from the see level

sterile breach
#

This is all speculation on my part, but high meant main or important in terms of roads (as in high street or highway). The High Road links part of the North with the likes of Waterdeep and Neverwinter, serving a pretty important function in the infrastructure of the Sword Coast.

honest tree
#

would that have any correlation to "high sun games", or that's just a coincidence? since neverwinter is along side it

sterile breach
#

The date of the High Sun Games is actually unknown, but the summer month of Eleasis, a.k.a. Highsun, is assumed here based on the similarity and apparent weather. However, other interpretations are possible, such as a reference to the time, that is, midday; or to the sun god Amaunator, whose holy symbol is reminiscent of the sun symbols used at the High Sun Games.

From the FR wiki: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/High_Sun_Games

#

So it sounds like coincidence.

honest tree
#

thank you

mystic merlin
zenith dust
foggy seal
#

Who wins Themberchonk/Themberchad or Arshadalon

ionic rivet
#

Two dragons from D&D lore

magic jackal
#

Ashardalon, easily

#

Themberchaud is just a powerful and heavy red dragon, Ashardalon is not only older, he's more powerful, has immense magical powers, has achieved greatwyrm status and has a freaking Balor for a second heart.

#

Themberchaud is fun but Ashardalon is a nightmare through and through.

acoustic matrix
#

I love his stride

foggy seal
#

Who wins, Arshardalon or Cyan Bloodbane (I have no idea what Cyan Bloodbane did so this might be a mismatch)

mystic merlin
#

Ashardalon.

#

Despite his exalted lineage, Cyan was something of a weakling among dragons,

And

After suffering a mortal wound, Ashardalon attempted to extend his life by binding a balor called Ammet to his chest in order to function as a second heart.

#

One is a great wyrm half-fiend. The other is “merely” a powerful dragon.

crude blaze
#

Yeah, Ashardalon is no joke at all.

sour trout
#

it's weird how demon possession is just not a thing anymore in 5e

white ravine
#

Whaddya mean, it still is

#

Dybbuks for example

iron saffron
#

Loumara are the third type of demon kind that possessed

molten osprey
minor comet
#

Is there any lore on the gibbering twelve? All I know is that they’re an elite brotherhood of mages

sour trout
white ravine
#

Ahhh...yknow what, fair.

foggy seal
#

Are there any dragons that would be a match for Ashardalon in combat!

#

Besides Tiamat and Bahamut lmao

white ravine
#

...Klauth could take him.

#

Klauth is a pain in the behind to fight, and even moreso because he's flat out dangerous.

crude blaze
#

Maybe Thordak, who I always just consider an Exandrian echo of Ashardalon anyways.

foggy seal
#

Holy smokes Klauth is cool

white ravine
#

Yup.

#

One of the worst red dragons you can ever come across.

foggy seal
#

Damn I didn’t know he was in Storm King’s Thunder

white ravine
#

I never read SKT in all honesty

unkempt merlin
#

Yea Thordak being a possible echo of Ashardalon makes sense

#

Especially since he even has his heart replaced

crude blaze
#

Like it’s probably not actually official lore, considering the dragon echoes lore came out well after CR’s first campaign ended, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Matt took inspiration from Ashardalon and made a dragon that now, retroactively, could suit as an echo of Ashardalon.

viscid jackal
olive prairie
#

Hoping this is the place to ask this:
A Tarrasque is one of the strongest things you could encounter, it's strong enough to take on and beat an Astral Dreadnought (at least on paper). But a Tarrasque has spikes on its back, it's got horns, alot of what it has are things associated with prey animals (the horns and spikes to force the predator to think twice before attacking it). So I'm kinda wondering, what hunts the Tarrasque? Or is its appearance more based on it looking cool over functionality? Just saying, alot of the physique of a Tarrasque (from a biology perspective) is geared towards protecting it from a predator...

iron saffron
#

Artistically cool.

The horns and the spikes on the tarrasque's back has been there since it was first introduced in the 1E AD&D Monster Manual 2 (although that version its back looked more like a turtle shell).

olive prairie
#

yeah, also to dissuade predators

iron saffron
#

It's suppose to be the apex predator. The only predator to it is are foolhardy adventurers.

#

It's a Monstrosity/Magical Beast, so it doesn't obey the same laws of ecology/biology as normal Beasts do.

zenith dust
#

evolution is not something that is known to exist in D&D. we have actual gods doing actual creation stuff

#

if that giant predator is going to have prey characteristics, it's because a god or wizard or something thought it would make it cooler

mystic merlin
#

Horns and spikes are also associated with malevolence and violence from a creationist POV

iron saffron
#

(See the archetypal devil with horns)

spiral vortex
#

Question regarding the D&D movie.

Are the magic items in it actual things that existed before the movie, or were they made up for it?

iron saffron
spiral vortex
#

That's dissapointing, but what I expected.

iron saffron
#

That's the thing with magic items, you make up whatever you want them to be.

grim siren
#

I am happy my gals in the Witches of Rashemen got referenced in one of the items

potent crescent
#

The 5e phb has the following listed under suggested dwarf names:

Clan Names: Balderk…, Dankil…, Gorunn, Holderhek…, Loderr, Lutgehr, Rumnaheim, Strakeln, Torunn, Ungart

Do any of these names have full or partial translations known?

iron saffron
#

There's no official dwarven dictionary outside of Tolkien lore afaik.

mystic merlin
# spiral vortex Question regarding the D&D movie. Are the magic items in it actual things that ...

This one’s touchy for me, because everything they do is in the game.

The hither thither staff is just a staff the casts a first edition dimension door. Well actually, it’s a ride but quibbles.
The tablet of true Resurrection is literally just that. It’s a scroll of true resurrection engraved in a clay tablet.
For the red wizard daggers, the game has always had various poisons, enchantments, and curses, which can do that sort of thing. Death effects in general used to prevent resurrection outside of a true resurrection. Vile damage or damage from a cursed blade via the assassins Blade spell (?) would deal damage that could not be cured, and since the Haram, which killed the person could not be cured, they could not be revived

#

Fifth edition is the first that requires some thing to text Julie, being an existing book before it is considered legitimate. Prior, it was enough that the conceptual affect existed in the game, and could therefore be applied in some clever matter.

spiral vortex
# mystic merlin This one’s touchy for me, because everything they do is in the game. The hither...

I didn't mean it's bad that they made up new items for the movie, rather that they didn't show the cool traditional items everyone has used at some point, except for the ||necklace of invisibility, which I don't think is an actual item, just a necklace version of the ring.||

For example, it would have been cool when they ||dove to escape the dragons flames if Edgin had tossed the group potions of water breathing.|| The scene doesn't change at all and gives a nice nod to existing item in the game.

Little things like that would have been nice here and there.

stuck breach
#

Apparently, Simon had a ||bag of holding|| wasn't too obvious tho

mystic merlin
#

I think that falls of towel of other problems. If he pulls out potion of water, breathing, why not potion of fire resistance

stuck breach
#

There were also the ||sending stones||

mystic merlin
#

The bag is actually very obvious, it’s at the heart in the dungeon Masters guide presented as gray when it is predominantly brown in actuality. I saw that in his StatLock, and we all went to go look and make sure because we were like no way, but it’s there.

white ravine
#

Maybe it's some baffling situation where a creature has both predator and prey traits due to the fact its diet consists of itself.

magic jackal
white ravine
#

It's a planet in another crystal sphere called Falx

unkempt merlin
#

Planet of tarrasques yea

pearl hinge
#

Question, how would the Dark Seldarine react to a new Drow God being born just out of nowhere.

white ravine
#

Probably as a threat or something to look into. New drow gods mean competition.

iron saffron
#

In the AD&D module, H4: The Throne of Bloodstone (which is for PCs levels 18-100 (yes, level 100)) there was a tarrasque on Thanatos, the 333rd layer that was Orcus' realm. The module suggested if the PCs are level 100 then throw 50 tarrasques at them.

#

Dungeon Magazine #84 had an adventure called, The Harrowing, where a female drow (born from the union of a male drow wizard and Lolth), tries to achieve divinity (be a demi-goddess).

exotic bay
#

I cant remember is it the FR or Faerun that was specifically stated that gunpower doesnt work

pearl hinge
#

Well this god I was picturing would be another chimeric spider like Lolth. But different to be more confrontational in contrast to her. Basically him being a Huntsman Spider while Lolth is the spider that likes to stay in her web, instead of venturing out of it to get things done. They're all about strength and the will to keep going, endurance basically to go stronger from strife. And fight together as a pack to become stronger overall for as a community.

More honorable too than Lolth who likes to be fickle and backstab her followers too. Lastly he hunts animals stronger than him, killing them and devour their body to in turn become strong as them.

iron saffron
molten osprey
#

Gunpowder doesn't work on Oerth unless you're a priest/paladin of Murlynd iirc

iron saffron
crude blaze
#

I knew I got blackpowder wrong too lol

pearl hinge
white ravine
#

She's kind of the black sheep of the dark seldarine, but she's still a member

iron saffron
mystic merlin
mystic merlin
mystic merlin
#

Gond’s priests can still make smokepowder, a magic item equivalent, but explosives just don’t, usually, in FR. Nitroglycerin would work as heart medicine but have no boom.

iron saffron
#

What's wrong being an old gamer?

hazy fox
#

Nothing, just a heads up for those curious.

iron saffron
#

So what does his age have to do with him being an interviewer?

hazy fox
#

Yeah, sorry about that.
I will just delete the post and might have to reword it later.
Just getting sleepy and might not be in good condition to explain about them right now.

#

Night!

pearl hinge
upper ether
#

Do mind flayers have to eat brains or die

can they eat animal brains
can they eat normal food

(I wanna make a friendly one)

pearl hinge
tough yacht
# upper ether Do mind flayers have to eat brains or die can they eat animal brains can they e...

So according to the monster manual, page 221 under Hunger of the Mind it says "Illithids subsist on the brains of humanoids. The brains provide enzymes, hormones and psychic energy necessary for their survival." it is always up to your DM but looks like it's smart brains or death. That doesn't mean they can't abstain from eating good humanoids... Sounds like a cool story idea having it team up with a pretty woman or child who acts as a bait so it can harvest evil people of the world. It also says they can harvest and store brains to eat later.

white ravine
#

It's not entirely limited to humanoids, but a mind flayer starved of brains of sentient creatures will live a struggling life.

upper ether
#

Aoop sorry didnt mean to ping

#

i think best one is eats evil people then

#

head of the police

white ravine
#

You do have to consider though that it's still a free thinking living being eating the brains of other free thinking living beings

#

The morality is dubious and gets worse the more you think on it

upper ether
#

yeahh

molten osprey
#

prions

upper ether
#

whats the least sentient creature it can eat

or i guess it could just eat sandwiches and be depressed

white ravine
#

That's...a very subjective and kinda messed up question

#

"Whats the dumbest creature for this brain eating predator to subsist on"

#

Also, the dumber the creature the less nourishing it is. Smarter = better.

pearl hinge
modest badger
#

There's actually an interesting Dungeon Magazine module where ithilids tried to make a cloning factory to basically make 'lab grown brains' to eat, but found that these brains provided barely no sustenance to them, because they hadn't had enough life experience to be 'nutritious' and full of thoughts and memories and psychic juices.

#

(That module also raised all sorts of questions about magical cloning >.>)

white ravine
#

That module was really cool when I first came across it

mystic merlin
mystic merlin
mystic merlin
modest badger
pearl hinge
mystic merlin
viscid jackal
#

obirinths came in 3e

mystic merlin
#

Don’t know about that, the queen of chaos features in the 2e rod of seven parts

#

But I haven’t done a lore dive, I should do that now.

viscid jackal
#

yes but they dont use the term obyrinths

mystic merlin
#

Sure, I more mean they’re not tanar’ri

viscid jackal
#

but i can check. i have that one. i even made a miska model so our former DM could use him in his rod of 7 parts campaign with his other group

#

used the GW arachnarok spider. this 4 armed dude from mierce and sculpted the rest

mystic merlin
#

Luckily I’ve got my go go gadget print on demand soft cover on my bedside table dndLol

#

Huh. There’s no term for it but the queen of chaos doesn’t seem to be tanar’ri.

Miska isn’t either, being presented as a Spyder-fiend

#

I remember there being detailed stuff for this in late planescape books but I don’t have many monstrous comepndioums handy

#

I am… fairly confident the books that introduced Obyrith in 3e referred to the queen of chaos as first or strongest of their number, and I can find google references to spider fiends as a subclass of tanar’ri but that’s it.

hazy fox
#

So just found Bad GM Productions' new episode on Kara-Tur and Al Qadim, it was just basic rundown but kinda interested about brief mention of former being 2-year project after skimming.
Also Signal of Doom had interview with Ed Greenwood.
Is it okay if I share links here?

white ravine
#

She came not too long after demogorgon and was a major part in the war against the obyriths

viscid jackal
#

but i cant find any paragraph on the formation of the tanar'ri/demons originally

mystic merlin
# white ravine She came not too long after demogorgon and was a major part in the war against t...

That’s the problem; that origin for Demogorgon and the very concept of obyriths come after what we are talking about.

In situations like the Queen of Chaos who was later given a type title (obyrith) it makes sense to read that as a new name for an old phenomenon. For Miska I would want more clarity of primary sources. Failing that, I want to read where the data would be to find what the absence is.

viscid jackal
#

i also recall somethin about them forming out of the random chaos/magical energy in the plane itself but cant remeber where thats from. the baatezu are given an actual explaination but tanar'ri seems harder to find

mystic merlin
#

Check 3e fiendish codex 1. If we can verify the language we can account for accidental cross pollinating

#

I know 3e has souls in the abyss dissolve eventually, and new demons emerge from the abyss eventually, and these two processes are tied together by Incarnum

Don’t know if that’s carried forward from anywhere though

viscid jackal
#

the problem in 3e and i think aftr that, they gave planar beings like organs and such. bfeore that they were made of pure planar energy. thats why trap the soul didnt work on them IIRC. and many other spells etc. also why they disappeared/exploded when dying. 3e shows an image of a demon being disected which isnt possible in 2e as the body would disappear

#

kinda like how chaso demons are in WH fantasy/40k

#

2e faces of evil says them being beings of chaos, their forms and traits being shared amongst others is a mistake. for every common form or trait there were many unknowns or variations. i guess thats why alot of the 2e advntuers had unique variations of them and it said stuff like this layer has variants and demon lords had their own variants, etc

#

and they are mutable

mystic merlin
#

3e was inconsistent but demons could be slain on their home plane and dissected (sometimes). But it was an absolute mess of errata and revision and just bad connections.

white ravine
#

To answer the initial question of if Miska is a tanar'ri or not, she is. Rod of Seven Parts from 2e lays that out

#

And as for what tanar'ri are, they're made from souls that exist in the Abyss.

#

Iggwilv's Demonomicon from Dragmag 337 for that.

#

...Sorry, 353.

viscid jackal
#

ya but thats 3e. before that it, souls are one method but they were there before mortal souls collected there

#

since the dawn of the planes pretty much

#

te abyss formed shortly after baator and the war started shortly after that

#

maybe to balance out baator being formed. the random cahos energy craeted the abyss

#

shrug

white ravine
#

Nah, that was the whole shard of pure evil incident and Tharizdun being a nutcase

viscid jackal
#

that was 3e or 4e

#

not 2e

#

the 9 hells and baatezu formed from ahriman

#

blood war started shortly after as IIRC the devils began exploring the planes. and they ran into tanar'ri

#

this is before the prime worlds were formed

white ravine
#

Ahriman?

viscid jackal
#

asmodeus real name

#

his blood formed the baatezu

#

from his literal fall

#

and he took the name asmodeus

white ravine
#

That's not exactly confirmed though, it's one of his origins but nobody's certain on it

viscid jackal
#

sure. but in 2e atleast thats teh best we got. but 3e changed that

white ravine
#

Frankly, I'm a bit lost on what the current question is at the moment

viscid jackal
#

it atleast gave a begining

#

formation of demons and the nature of chaos? 🙂

white ravine
#

Well, the demons mainly originated from the obyriths being a pain in everyone's behind. The nature of chaos as a fundamental concept however...that's a whole other can of worms I don't think anyone can answer.

viscid jackal
#

yeah but that was also 3e

#

i was looking up before that 🙂

white ravine
#

Well, even before that the answers go from decent to vague

viscid jackal
#

im actually filling gaps in a nalfeshnee print miniature right now 🙂

mystic merlin
viscid jackal
#

what u looking for? misak's rules?

#

he's in the monster appendix at the back i think

mystic merlin
#

Yeah but it doesn’t lay him out clean as a tanar’ri

#

In the statblock*

#

It might say something in the descriptive text

#

Aha, found it

#

The queen of chaos is not even a demon, she’s from Limbo and is a unique creature, so the obyrith is probably a different queen?

Spyderfiends are directly called a subset of tanar’ri which means yes, Miska is omen the pages stuck together so I flipped back and forth over this one

viscid jackal
#

i assumed they changed the lore of her in 3e with the obrinth stuff

#

the same way they , while hinting at it, dropped teh ahriman/asmodeus stuff after 2e

mystic merlin
#

The Ahriman asmodeus stuff was weird. Wasn’t it a lot less canonical and a lot more side book for a unique take on things?

That one was so outlandish I mentally file it as like? A net book. One of the old word docs passed along through the internet with a collection of house rules.

viscid jackal
#

it was one of the final sourcebooks for 2e. it was all focused on hell. they had anther similar one foxued on dragons (the 2e draconomicon) and one on angels . it was kinda there to go into the nature of devils . i think cause PS did a lot more focus on demons

#

it probably would hav ebeen better as a PS sourcebook actually

foggy seal
#

3.5e Draconomicon dndLove

viscid jackal
#

but other sources used it. die vecna die for example, some of the later dragon mag arcitles also mention that lore. and there were plans for future PS stuff to also expand on that, die vecna die, dead gods, since they all kinda conect to gether with stuff they mention flat out or hint at but with the wotc purchase of TSR those future products were all dumped 😦

mystic merlin
#

Vecna and the serpents and ancient brotherhood peeves me so much Dx

viscid jackal
#

i just want wotc to release maybe in DND beyond or that site where u can buy old books that gen con PS adventure by chris perkins that he lost his copy of , Cutters

#

has a bunch of lore, maps, etc that arent really mentioned anywhere else

#

one copy ended up on ebay about 5 years ago. sold for like $500 or so for a stack of paper basically

white ravine
#

Trick there is that's just the abyss, what about pure chaos itself?

twilit flame
#

Is there any recent material that explains on the Fey Courts (specially Seelie and Unseelie?)

#

I was so sad that they weren't the focus of Wild Beyond the Witchlight

modest badger
#

Not much. Page 49 in the DMG has a small side box on Seelie and Unseelie courts

twilit flame
#

Meh

#

Sad cause I want to make a character based on them

modest badger
#

Seelie: Queen Titania, Summer Court, Unseelie: Queen of Air and Darkness, Gloaming Court. Roughly good and evil, but more about fey rivalry and opposite concepts. 'Ugly fey' like fomorians and hags are rarely in either.
That's about it.

#

4e Heroes of the Feywild is still one of the best sources of fey lore and feywild to me.

ashen crow
#

The sister queens? and there is a third one right? Starts with a V maybe?

modest badger
#

Verenestra apparently, from older editions

#

Forgotten Realm Wiki is still a good source- even just for finding actual sources. You can look up Titania, seelie and unseelie court, and check the citations for which books to try and look up

twilit flame
modest badger
#

Some editions lean more into good = seelie, evil =unseelie, but generally yeah, fey morality is meant to be orange and blue, not black and white. Fun to play with that. More about leaning into fairytale archetypes, morals and values.

twilit flame
#

Would it be safe to say that both would employ assassins and those kind of operatives or is it more implied to be only Unseelie stuff

#

?

#

I was thinking on playing a Changeling Fey Wanderer Ranger that would lean on this fantasy

white ravine
#

The summer fey is the typical fey nonsense, but the winter fey are the more 'survival of the fittest' oriented nastiness

pearl hinge
# white ravine Well, the demons mainly originated from the obyriths being a pain in everyone's ...

I can answer that.

Basically the Obryiths came from another multiverse that was dying. Due to them over damaging it in their conquest, causing the light of their worlds to die. So they were slowly dying to the brink of extinction. So in turn they made a Shard of Pure Evil; basically a oversoul of sorts that was made from countless souls of their deadkin.

It had the power to unmake and make reality, therefore it could travel between realms. But they needed another being from the other side to place it for them to effectively use as a portal. So they tempted and corrupted Tharizdun who gave into the call of power. The original plan was for Tharizdun to place the Shard of Pure Evil in the Astral Plane so it's influence could spread throughout the Forgotten Realms, corrupting and changing it into a nexus ripe for the Obryiths.

But Tharizdun did instead placed it in Limbo, activating it's power and siphon it off to become stronger. But the shard formed into a vortex. From which the Obryith crossed over to escape their dying worlds. Though now they had to fight a power hungry god for control for the Shard.

They apparently won through a battle of pure attrition, but as a by product of Shard and Limbo's nature. It formed the lower planes of evil alignment and eventually the Abyss which the Obryiths nestled in as their new exodus. Though one Obryith that would become the first demon prince Obox-ob managed to collect the shard and attain great power.

magic elm
#

Riddle me this why on the divines green faerun are will o wisps lightning not fire

iron saffron
#

They've always attacked with electricity/lightning since 1E. This goes back to the natural explanation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will-o'-the-wisp

natural electrical phenomena (like lightning) interacting with methane marsh gas may be the cause of ignis fatuus

In 1993, professors Derr and Persinger proposed that some ignis fatuus may be geologic in origin, piezoelectrically generated under tectonic strain. The strains that move faults would also heat up the rocks, vaporizing the water in them. Rock or soil containing something piezoelectric, like quartz, silicon, or arsenic, may also produce electricity, channelled up to the surface through the soil via a column of vaporized water, there somehow appearing as earth lights. This would explain why the lights appear electrical, erratic, or even intelligent in their behaviour

raven needle
modest badger
#

I'm hit and miss with Dresden. I do like some of the lore, but could never get into the books. Also for me, none of the ideas really seemed new to me when reading them.

For D&D I'd still say look to 4e's Heroes of the Feywild as a good fey source.

hallow pawn
#

Dresden Files is bad fanfiction.

#

Let me put on my hat, sweatpants and duster and be misogynistic for a book for 20.

foggy seal
#

Who wins, The Raven Queen in lore (I don’t care what edition, use whatever edition you want lol) or Tiamat

unkempt merlin
#

in lore in which setting? cause in some the RQ is a god, in others she isn't

hallow pawn
#

Tiamat is just Asmodeus's pet. She's not very cool. But Raven Queen is a crazy lady.

white ravine
#

Raven queen also doesnt get into scuffles often so it's hard to gauge

hallow pawn
#

Yeah, she's not really stated out.

modest badger
#

Gonna go get Takhisis on this.

crude blaze
unkempt merlin
#

Yea, same way I don't think most people would describe a prisoner as their jailers pet

serene crater
#

after looking into lore for the drow and menzobaranzan and had a player do this concept in the past, it brought up an interesting question, but how are transgender people seen in lolth devoted drow communties?

unkempt merlin
#

I don't know if there is any official lore, but iirc there is lore about how those communities feel about the Blessing of Corellon that allows elves to change their sex

#

ah yea here we go

Dark elves find this ability to be terrifying and characterize it as a curse, for it could destabilize their entire society. If Corellon's blessing manifests in a drow, that elf usually flees to the surface world to seek shelter among those dedicated to Corellon.

#

However, in the context of just being non magically trans... not sure

serene crater
#

yeah, I wasn't sure how they'd take it either with fellow drow.

unkempt merlin
#

I could see it going a few ways

#

General transphobia could be a thing, but I there could also be a difference for transfem and transmasc individuals as well

serene crater
#

the lore I have going is pretty much transphobia within lolth built communities (don't worry, the groups ok with it, it helped build a characters backstory a while ago) but its becuase they either see it as spitting in their face (trans male) or pretenders (trans women)

#

though I wasn't sure of this was accurate to anything

unkempt merlin
#

yea thats pretty much what my line of thought would've been for something more than general transphobia

rapid stratus
#

Loth is quite literally a female supremacist so she'd view FTM as class traitors and MTF as well at best she just starts killing

#

Pure evil

mystic merlin
# serene crater after looking into lore for the drow and menzobaranzan and had a player do this ...

Terribly; there is a strict order enforced by the church and the demon-goddess and even rebellion fits within that. Actual transgression of the very concept of the rules (not breaking the rules but refusing to play the game) is going to make everyone upset*.

Officially, those few dark elves who have correlon’s blessing are outcast and renegade (MToF 5e), but that might not be what you’re asking despite fitting the bill. I’ve always thought being forced to accept the stupidity of the society by effectively being turned into a Cold War type spy would be good drama though!

  • I suspect the average not!noble drow wouldn’t care and are much less weird than the upper class in their fancy houses with their intrigue and mafia stuff
hallow pawn
#

Drow would be TERFs?

magic jackal
#

I don't think it's that simple lmao

unkempt merlin
#

You could certainly play them as such but there would probably be relevant differences due to the matriarchal society of drow compared to the generally patriarchal ones irl

modest badger
#

It is heavily implied that Lolthian drow would be see, 'The Blessed of Corellon':

The rarest of these blessed elves can change their sex whenever they finish a long rest-a miracle celebrated by elves of all sorts except drow. (The DM decides whether an elf can manifest this miracle.) Dark elves find this ability to be terrifying and characterize it as a curse, for it could destabilize their entire society. If Corellon's blessing manifests in a drow, that elf usually flees to the surface world to seek shelter among those dedicated to Corellon.

Although that blessing is a bit messy and while trans adjacent not quite the same as being trans.

Elistrean Drow might be a bit more open, looking at their lore, but that's a bit tricky as it's very heavily Ed Greenwoods perception of gender and magic (Not malicious, but still a little bit... eeeeh at times where he associates being female with being more magical).

#

See this forum post: http://candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5812&whichpage=56#159733

Yes, you heard me right: there now ARE a few males among her church, but to enter it they have all “Danced The Changedance” and spent time as female, just as Mystra caused Elminster to spend time as Elmara - - and for the same reasons: greater understanding and sensitivity of “the life of the other gender.” One cannot truly feel the Divine Dance of Eilistraee PROPERLY except as a female, and so her (still very rare, few, and generally secretive about it) male priests must spend some time as a female (not just for the duration of a ritual, but they must do some everyday living as a female). The most accomplished drow, elf, half-elf, and human male priests seem to feel the need to take female form for some days every few years or so (if they wish to “cleave more fully to the Goddess” and thus rise in levels), and most spend longer and longer times in female form. Not all female priests of the Goddess fully trust the males, and they don’t tend to rise much in the church hierarchy (no matter what character levels they achieve).
So. Yeeeeeeeah.

And this tweet that says Yes it can be done the other way (FtM), but it does still seem focused on the whole 'being female to be closer to female godessess' vibe.
https://twitter.com/TheEdVerse/status/1349026671739940870

Yes, Changedance works in both directions, so long as you perform it correctly (it’s not a straight reversal or “use it exactly the same way,” there are subtle differences in how one does it). So yes for female to male.

#

And then since 2015, He did decide that it'd open up to male clergy that didn't need to do the dance:

yes, there can at the present time in the Realms be male clergy of Eilistraee (no changedance necessary).

But again this is more 'Ed's lore' than what always made it into the books

rough fractal
#

I know Volo's Guide to Waterdeep made some of the tax laws pretty clear, is there anything like that for Baldur's Gate?

#

My players are getting a castle not crazy far away with lots of fields and such, so I expect then to be having to worry about bringing goods into Baldur's Gate and selling them

rough fractal
#

It seems like the first Volo's Guide to Baldur's Gate is in a book about the video game and doesn't cover much and the second is a book about Amn?

hallow pawn
#

Baldur's Gate is detailed for 5e in the adventure book for the module Descent into Avernus.

#

Baldur's Gate lower city is not restricted very well and is super shady.

rough fractal
#

I have that book, I'm looking for something with more details

hallow pawn
#

They can do anything there.

#

Are they trying to sell at the Wide?

rough fractal
#

The way the old Volo's Guide to Waterdeep had lots of detail

hallow pawn
#

Baldurs Gate doesn't have the guilds like Waterdeep.

rough fractal
#

Tax is just one of the things I'm trying to look into, and it's a preemptive thing. They aren't trying to sell anything anywhere yet

hallow pawn
#

Yeah I don't think anything exists. Baldurs Gate operates more on bribes and sleeze.

#

I think if they're just selling to shops in small quantities you shouldn't need tax codes. If they're trying to open up a store or stall in the Wide, then you can. I would play up the shady though. It feels super weird to just treat baldurs gate like waterdeep and have nice set tax codes.

mystic merlin
hallow pawn
#

How could a god get into Sigil?

grim siren
#

they generally don't Lady of Pain sees to that.

#

Last time a god tried was I think Vecna in Die Vecna Die.

hallow pawn
#

What if it's just a little baby god? And is it like a net? Does she come and kill them?

mystic merlin
white ravine
#

This also extends to beings like primordials, demon lords, archdevils, etc.

mystic merlin
#

Vecna once did vía a technicality of not being alive and not being a god, and that loophole was corrected so it was metaphysically not a thing that could be done

hallow pawn
#

What really defines something as a god for that setting?

white ravine
#

For planescape...I'd reckon anything that has the capability of ruling Sigil if the Lady of Pain vanishes.

hallow pawn
#

Would you say it's a power level thing? Like if a super weak being with a spark of divinity entered it might be OK? Or would she appear and cause immeasurable horrors to them?

white ravine
#

'Spark of divinity' in DND is a bit tenuous, there are some parameters for what would have true divinity in it

#

For example, blood-born demigods would have it but some uber-powerful sorcerer ain't got nothing.

As for actual deities, the weakest of gods has a fairly sizeable following and inherent divine power which would have them barred from entry.

#

She only really bothers harming things that attempt to mess with Sigil in some way. Attempting to get her attention as she floats silently down the streets will cause you to erupt in dozens of open wounds, any attempts at violence in her presence gets you thrown into a decrepit magic maze, and she is known for nuking entire city blocks for messing with her workers.

#

As for that last story, one of her workers (known as the Dabus) joined a church to Aoskar, God of Portals that was in Sigil. A few nights later, the temple and several city blocks were completely obliterated and Aoskar's deific corpse was soon being reported drifting in the Astral Plane.

After that, worship of Aoskar was deemed illegal under punishment of death.

hallow pawn
#

Does she ban worship of all gods?

white ravine
#

Nah, just Aoskar.

#

Oh, also herself. She kills you if you worship her.

#

Given how deities in DND rely on worship to maintain power, that not only rules her out of being a traditional deity but also makes her very terrifying by the fact she can beat them up for lunch money if she so chooses.

grim siren
#

Yeah the Lady of Pain fixing the damage done by vecna coming in is the in world explanation for the 2e to 3e transition

mystic merlin
mystic merlin
hallow pawn
#

What if it was BEFORE Vecna got in?

mystic merlin
mystic merlin
# hallow pawn What if it was BEFORE Vecna got in?

Then maybe but likely not, read the module?

Iirc divine power was just not able to get in no matter how small. What the lich did was somehow get the reagents which would catalyze new divinity, into the place and in a way that also violated the way reality works (for example; all magic, divine or no, doesn’t work close to the central spire of the outlands but that’s also where you have to work great magic to change the rules of reality)

hallow pawn
#

I just have some baby gods that I want to get into Sigil for my campaign dracthyr_cry_animated

serene vortex
#

Anyone have any video recommendations that's basically like a crash course on the complete history of Faerun?

iron saffron
serene vortex
mystic merlin
#

This isn’t DMing advice this is “what did people write thirty years ago”, so you’re not going to get help doing something only help finding things the official folks did

frigid eagle
#

is dnd movie canon to any Lore

iron saffron
#

Movie canon

frigid eagle
#

yea to any Lore

iron saffron
#

The movie itself. It wasn't made by WotC so I consider it not to be.

frigid eagle
#

ok

sharp owl
#

That's not how canon works currently

iron saffron
#

Ugh... I mistyped and missed a "not" in my sentence. I type too fast.

north vault
#

Hey I need a Forgotten Realms maniac, someone who knows the setting well.

#

Would one of you kind gentlepeople be willing to help?

iron saffron
#

There are many of us.

north vault
#

Perfect

#

So, basically, character is a wood elf with the noble background, I named the house he's from house Claura and I'm doing the family tree.

#

DM asked me for that because we might visit the family home one day

#

Where would that family home be? A hidden village of wood elves, not too far from the Sword Coast.

#

Would just any big forest on the map work?

iron saffron
north vault
#

Perfect

#

You know, I think the High Forest is big enough that I can safely put a wood elf hidden town in it without disturbing anything

iron saffron
#

High Forest would be where most of the wood elves near the Sword Coast would be located.

north vault
#

Perfect

#

Also, looking through the wiki, I really got the feeling that 4e changed the lore of the elves so deeply that it contradicts a lot and messes up the terminology, is that normal?

stuck breach
#

Lots of lore changes from edition to editions.

north vault
#

Yeah but I get lost in the FR wiki between the eladrins, gold elves and moon elves and wild elves and wood elves and...

stuck breach
#

They're not trying to be consistent from edition to edition, so don't expect it

iron saffron
north vault
#

I expect changes but it feels like 4e changes were especially drastic

iron saffron
#

The best you can do is when you look up lore in the FR wiki is check the reference citation.

#

3E is about 100 years before 5E.
4E is about 30 years before 5E.

#

Entire nations (Halruaa) and continents (Maztica) disappeared to Abeir in 4E's Spellplague only for them to return in the Second Sundering.

north vault
#

I skipped 4e completely

iron saffron
#

I enjoyed 4E but didn't like its lore.

white ravine
north vault
#

Well, anyways... For now tell me what you think about this :
House Claura is one of the five big houses that are the sworn protectors and administrators of the Elenath Imlad community, a bigger-than-average wood elf village of about three to four hundred permanent residents that can have up to six hundreds depending on the visits from nomadic elves, as opposed to the sedentary residents.
It is led by Lady Elwen Claura, born in 900 DR and her husband, lord-consort born to house Nalad (a lesser noble house of which he is a third born). Elwen serves the community as ranger general, her husband Haldir trains the bladesingers.
They have eight children (due to being married for four centuries and having been blessed with a higher fertility than average for elves) :
First born is Amdir, born in 1049 DR, trained as an administrator and leader
Second born is Erwen, born in 1087 DR, a diplomat by trade who travels between the elven communities of the High Forest and has earned a lot of favor for her swift handling of disputes between villages and clans
Third born is Faonar, born in 1144 DR, who trained extensively in the study of magic and has inherited the duty of the archives of the community
Fourth born is Garadrim, born in 1157 DR, who is a singer and dancer who has spent the last century trying to organize a giant multi-community celebration
Fifth and sixth born are the twins Tharanduil and Ormia, born in 1288 DR, the first one trains as a druid, the second as a priest to Corellon
Seventh born is Lenwë, born in 1440 DR, who was sent to a monastery outside of the forest after a childhood of troublemaking, came back a master of both blade and bow
Eigth born is Tariel, born in 1452 DR, who is obsessed with finding Sarrukh ruins the library hints could be near the village

obsidian hornet
#

Can somebody explain to me in lore how it works that evil entities like arch devils and the dead three can imbue their clerics with radiant and divine power, yet fiends themselves can't use these types of energies?

north vault
#

I really screwed myself up when I said in-character that I had seven siblings

iron saffron
north vault
#

The arch devil just plants the seed of power. How that seed of power grows and is used is up to the cleric/warlock

obsidian hornet
#

It just seems counterproductive for a guy like Baal to be able to embue a cleric or Paladin with radiant energy when he himself would he susceptible and harmed by it

iron saffron
#

Demon lords also have pacts with dark deities to grant clerical powers to their cultists (as explained in previous editions).

north vault
#

That is also why clerics of Auril can cast fire spells if they bother to prepare them despite the fact that Auril has no idea how to use any kind of fire magic

north vault
#

Moreover, we don't have his character sheet so we don't know if he is actually susceptible or harmed by radiant energy

iron saffron
north vault
#

Not everything evil is harmed by radiant energy.

iron saffron
#

Bael is an archdevil and he's not vulnerable to radiant damage.

obsidian hornet
#

I guess he's a poor example, I'm more thinking of powerful devils in Avernus that could impue a player with radiant abilities like cleric classes or whatnot

iron saffron
#

Very few undead and fiends are vulnerable to radiant damage.

north vault
#

Archdevils are no more vulnerable to radiant than to anything else

obsidian hornet
#

Huh ok

north vault
#

They have no more reason to be wary of it than to be wary of cold or bludgeoning damage

iron saffron
#

Radiant damage isn't necessarily positive energy like in past editions.

north vault
#

Even in past editions, only undead were vulnerable to positive energy

#

Archdevils count as living creatures, not undead ones

obsidian hornet
#

I just figured paladins and clerics were like, pretty strong against fiends. Is that just by virtue of being "good aligned? I remember reading that on a rakshasa stat block, that they're weak to weapon strikes from good aligned creatures

iron saffron
#

Again, Asmodeus is the ruler of Hell and he promotes and demotes archdevils as he sees fit. As a greater god he has final say on who gets to be worshipped by cultists (he doesn't want compeition).

north vault
#

Nah, it's just that paladins deal slightly more damage against fiends and undead

#

Though they should also deal more damage to celestials IMO

#

To quote my character in a certain videogame to a certain good aligned goddess "Just because demons break the rules by entering the material plane does not give angels the right to do so. Both are in equal violation of the rules of the planes, both will be punished"

obsidian hornet
#

Yeah I guess this all just came from my initial search for good cleric monster stat blocks and all I can find officially are cultists and acolytes, which I guess are more just flavored as evil but aren't necessarily

iron saffron
#

In FR lore, Gargauth was a former archdevil that attained demi-godhood. No idea what he's up to after 3E lore.

north vault
#

I checked on Gargauth some time ago

#

From what I can tell the character hasn't even been mentioned in quite a while

#

At least until Baldur's Gate : Descent into Avernus

iron saffron
#

3E was the last (I just looked him up in my 3.5E's Faiths & Pantheons book).

north vault
#

It was actually the first time he appeared in D&D since 3e

obsidian hornet
iron saffron
#

Sure why not. He's not officially around 5E but at your table you can make him still a demi-god.

north vault
obsidian hornet
#

Like, such that he could just Bestow a level immediately, assuming the player gives up something extremely valuable

north vault
#

Oh just make people immediately level up?

#

Well, when I DM, nothing has the power to do that but you do your thing

iron saffron
#

That's outside the scope of this channel.

north vault
#

Also that, yes

fervent nexus
#

Do any of you guys know which god has a hand on an eye for a symbol?

iron saffron
#

Vecna.
dndThis

north vault
#

Isn't that Bane?

#

Ah, of course, silly me

fervent nexus
#

Good or bad?

north vault
#

Bane is just a black hand

#

Very bad

#

The baddest.

obsidian hornet
fervent nexus
#

Ok that’s bad the gm gave me a talisman with that on it.

iron saffron
north vault
fervent nexus
#

Bruh the party’s like lvl 3

north vault
#

You're not fighting Vecna

iron saffron
north vault
#

Worst case scenario you're fighting a cult

fervent nexus
#

I’m new to this thing, not too certain on gods

#

And dieties

north vault
#

Eh, I don't care much about telling him that, it's info he could find googling in ten minutes

iron saffron
#

Ask your DM about the gods in his campaign.

fervent nexus
#

Alr

north vault
#

If he wants to find out, he'll find out. Also, there's no reason to hide info that is common knowledge among D&D players

#

Also, D&D Vecna has nothing to do with Stranger Things' Vecna. Not even remotely the same style

fervent nexus
obsidian hornet
fervent nexus
#

Anyways thanks for the help, I have gtg

iron saffron
north vault
#

Probably better

obsidian hornet
#

Do Hellfire Weapons break the Pact Primeval?
They funnel the soul of those killed with them into the River Styx, where it's reborn instantly as a Lemure.

north vault
#

If the pact still stands, that means they don't and there's a clause in the contract that allows it

white ravine
#

Generally, devils only end up using them to deal with mortal incursions since at that point it's self defense.

white ravine
#

MTF...?

#

i think

obsidian hornet
# white ravine MTF...?

I'm looking at the statblock for Hellfire Engines in MToF and it just says Amnizus and Devil generals use them to repel incursions by demons and crusading mortals.
Additionally, the General of the current Archduke of Avernus wields a Hellfire lance.
@north vault Why wouldn't Devils use them exclusively and just raid weak worlds to reap souls for the blood war?

Something strange I've noticed is the Pact Primeval is never mentioned in Descent into Avernus. Could it be so simple as "they've retconned the Pact"? Are there any 5e materials that describe the Pact Primeval?

iron saffron
#

Because gods would be upset that their followers would be killed for the Blood War.

obsidian hornet
iron saffron
#

No, souls go to the Fugue Plane where they wait for representatives of their god to come pick them up and take them to their god's domain.

#

Devils can only take the souls of LE people or the godless.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Fugue_Plane#Kelemvor's_Agreement

During that time, baatezu were allowed to inform souls of their state and bargain with them. Souls were offered the chance to become devils themselves, usually starting as a lemure but having the chance to advance through the devilish ranks, possibly even becoming a pit fiend. This was the main way baatezu propagated. The prospect of becoming a devil might seem abhorrent to good-aligned mortals but those who followed evil deities and those who feared what awaited them in the afterlife were much more likely to take up the offer. This agreement did not prevent devils from outright stealing souls.

obsidian hornet
iron saffron
#

Obviously good-aligned gods and their followers won't allow that to happen.

obsidian hornet
#

Or are summoned with their true name.

iron saffron
#

Gods aren't going to let devils massacre their worshippers to farm their souls.

#

This is where PCs come in to stop cultists...

obsidian hornet
#

I'm just trying to figure out how to roleplay the fact that almost everyone you encounter in Descent into Avernus wields a weapon that says "when this kills you, your soul immediately goes to the river Styx and you're made a Lemure" and how not to play that as coersion when dealing with contracts.

obsidian hornet
# iron saffron This is where PCs come in to stop cultists...

Like say a party of lawful good paladins crusade into Avernus and are killed by a Hellfire axe or crushed by a Hellfire engine, becoming Lemures.
Do their gods intervene here? If a party gets TPK'd, does their God send an angel to retrieve these souls/Lemures from the River Styx?

white ravine
#

Not only is offending the guy who is singlehandedly responsible for preventing endless demonic incursions a bad idea, but also the fact of what happened the last time an angel went to the nine hells...well we all know who rules Avernus.

obsidian hornet
#

Like @iron saffron was saying, presumably devils are only supposed to be allowed to claim LE souls.
How is it that everyone in Avernus has a weapon that can just turn any humanoid, of any alignment, into a Lemure?
How are they getting away with it?

white ravine
#

If they are caught, Asmodeus pretty much obliterates them.

obsidian hornet
#

My players are all pretty experienced and savvy on old soul law and lore. When they ask a devil what the deal is with hellfire weapons I guess it just comes down to devils in Avernus saying "you can either take your chances in this massive inevitable class-action lawsuit after I take your soul by force or you can accept my bargain"

Which just kinda feels weird by normal devil rules. They've never been able to just "take it by force".

white ravine
#

The other more reasonable method is hellfire weapons being used as self defense in hell itself

#

After all, entering the devil's lands effectively makes your life forfeit.

#

However, there is the other option. Intimidation.

#

Let's say a devil beats you in a fight and has a hellfire weapon. They can make an offer to you right there.

#

"You'll either sell off your soul and become a proper devil when you die in exchange for me sparing you, or I can kill you with this weapon right here."

#

Dying to a hellfire weapon turns you into the lowest of lows in devil society after all, and it's a horrible existence.

obsidian hornet
# white ravine If they are caught, Asmodeus pretty much obliterates them.

I don't think this is the case. I think asmo knows. Otherwise I don't think Zariel would equip her main favorite and only trusted general with such a weapon and risk him being annihilated by Asmodeus.

I think it may just be a case of slick legalese. Like "yes the weapon sends your soul to the river Styx, but that's not illegal."
The river Styx and it's effect on souls is an act of nature older than the Pact itself.
Maybe that's it? It's just a damn technicality?

white ravine
#

Possibly, I think there's room for interpretation in it at least. At worst, it doesn't make sense.

mystic merlin
# obsidian hornet I'm looking at the statblock for Hellfire Engines in MToF and it just says Amniz...

The pact primeval from the third edition fiendish codex 2 is only ever mentioned in that book. It’s a known issue that the book claims to present the real truth about devils but not only contradicts every other book from the same era it also contradicts itself in several places.

“Retconning the pact primeval” would require the pact primeval to have ever been canonical, and as far as any setting’s lore goes it wasn’t*.

north vault
#

Those things are very impressive. I doubt there's more than a few hundreds of them in all the Nine Hells

iron saffron
#

Devils don't have numbers on their side but they have organization, strategy, and tactics that the demons lack.

north vault
#

Well, a single demon may be a tactical genius but good luck getting the others to follow their tactics

#

Also, the pact primeval is only mentioned in Tyrants of the Nine Hell from third edition. It may no longer be canon

#

It doesn't really make sense anyways. It talks about the gods like they were a single entity but every god is different. Corellon would never sign a pact of the sort.

#

Most chaotic deities would prefer a demon victory over what Asmodeus proposed

mystic merlin
# north vault Also, the pact primeval is only mentioned in Tyrants of the Nine Hell from third...

Technically for the realms or for Greyhawk it never was!

Late third edition was building its own bespoke setting, despite ostensibly being “set in Greyhawk”, with a few scrapped things floating around here and there. They had their own history, map, and some internal stuff that might have even congealed into a pseudo-Bible. It was really cool but left a bit of a lore mess!

FCII has another issue though, with being internally contradictory as well as contradicted by both earlier and later books in the same setting. It has good ideas but was never ‘accurate’, instead being a text with an unreliable narrator.

obsidian hornet
iron saffron
#

It's in their nature.

#

It's hard to find godless atheists when gods have literally walked the earth (via aspects/avatars).

crude blaze
#

I think what a lot of people see as “atheism” in D&D is more along the lines of iconoclasm.

#

It’s not the disbelief in gods and/or the Divine, it’s the rejection of it.

#

Which takes its name after the word iconoclasm

obsidian hornet
#

By definition it's just a person who attacks cherished beliefs or destroys religious images

north vault
#

Devils are about order. Cold hierarchy.

#

Basically fantasy supernatural fascists

hallow pawn
#

They want them souls.

obsidian hornet
crude blaze
#

Don’t have any preference from whom, save for maybe some of the archdevils having some particular tastes.

#

But ultimately, souls are souls and they want ‘em

hallow pawn
#

How do they know the religious beliefs of people before they kill them?

north vault
hallow pawn
#

And I'd assume an atheist in forgotten realms would be like a flat earther here.

obsidian hornet
#

Like @iron saffron was saying, presumably devils don't like freely reap souls out of fear of their gods taking retribution

hallow pawn
#

They don't get a soul if they just go kill someone

#

That's not how it works.

iron saffron
hallow pawn
#

I meant the devils

obsidian hornet
hallow pawn
#

They make it a lemure but the devil don't get the soul personally

iron saffron
#

Devils try to persuade (evil) souls in the Fugue to go to Hell in the hopes of being a devil rather than a faceless petitioner in their gods' domain.

hallow pawn
#

They can't rank up their devil standing if they just anonymously make lemures in avernus.

iron saffron
#

Of course, devils have pacts with mortals to sell their souls in exchange for the promise of riches, power, etc.

crude blaze
#

I personally like to make devil pacts where they get the soul if the person is incapable of accomplishing something

#

Then they do whatever they can to intervene from behind the scenes when the time is right. That way A. they got someone to do work for them, and B. they get the soul anyways.

obsidian hornet
#

Though I'd imagine a devil might take sh*t from their superior for Lemuring a powerful character of convictions, cause they're more fun to corrupt and more valuable as a higher rank devil.

obsidian hornet
hallow pawn
#

That's all like, known stuff though. And the gods are real. And most religion isn't like, Christian worship.

obsidian hornet
hallow pawn
#

Gods are worshipped in a ton of ways. And being Atheist is much different than acknowledging the gods exist, but refusing to worship them.

obsidian hornet
#

What would you call that

arctic turtle
#

So, you guys watched the dnd movie

hallow pawn
#

Google said it might be Apatheism

#

Idk though, I'm not smart.

iron saffron
arctic turtle
#

😭 bad joke, mb

mystic merlin
hallow pawn
#

I think whenever it's brought up it's real life atheists bringing that to dnd

crude blaze
#

True atheism could probably work fine in Eberron.

obsidian hornet
#

And dark sun where they're all dead or gone

mystic merlin
mystic merlin
# hallow pawn Google said it might be Apatheism

Maltheist and antitheist for “the gods suck, screw those jerks” and agnostic for “Yeah they’re out there. Maybe in this room even probably.”

Most folks are probably going to end up, in D&D, just a hair past agnostic I feel. “Yes, Bronathan the Red exists, Sure. Look, I’m hungry. I’m gonna get breakfast and then I’m gonna go fishing to sell at market, so bronathan all power and might to him or whatever but me and Obad-hai are gonna do a quick prayer over this loaf of bread before I go enter nature”

#

A lot of “Yeah but right this second they aren’t helping so I don’t care”

#

There’s a practicality that’s often missing, aye

zenith dust
#

I wouldn't say agnostic is "they're out there, maybe in this room even probably" it's more "I don't know if they are or are not, and I'm not prepared to say one way or the other"

obsidian hornet
#

@mystic merlin by 5e context clues what would you say is the afterlife fate for maltheists and antitheists, or those who blame the gods for the world's ills

mystic merlin
#

That is what agnosticism is IRL, but real life performance has entirely different variables. I think we instead start getting into the thing where people say that God’s are not gods, and does divine and worthy of worship, but our instead, big wizards, you happen to a bully other people into systemic obeisance

#

In fairness, this mirrors, real world, spiritual traditions. Haiti’s had a bad rap, but people still paid proper respect… Over there, in his temple, with a hood on. Because he deserves respect I will be angry if he doesn’t get it, but you also don’t want him to notice you if you can help it.

I know there’s an IRL god of disease/pestilence who is often revered in a if I recall correctly “here is your do, please bless me by staying away” manner

mystic merlin
#

Maybe, I don’t think there’s much on the topic in the most recent addition.

#

Part of the issue is the mishmash. There is no fugue plane in the great wheel, but there is a great wheel in fifth edition.

#

So my guess is that we use the third edition, great wheel, default; for spirit dies, and it winds up based on the weight of its deeds on either the shores of the river, Styx, or the river Oceanus

white ravine
modest mason
#

Why does xanathar like his pet gold fish. What exactly does a beholder get from having a pet gold fish?

white ravine
#

What do you get out of having a cat?

modest badger
#

What does anyone get out of a goldfish?

white ravine
#

mmmm pet

arctic turtle
#

Mmmm food

eager bay
#

It is weird that a beholder has a pet goldfish, are we acting like its not.

paper stream
#

Beholders are a drug fuelled fever dream nightmare from the 80's we just accept as a normal part of this game cause history... yeah its weird it has a goldfish...

crude blaze
#

With a sprinkle of obsessive behavior thrown in there for some spice.

sharp owl
#

Also the original question wasn't "is this normal" but "what does a beholder get out of having a pet?" which presumably is something similar to what anyone else gets out of having a pet

eager bay
#

The question was clearly because its not normal to have a pet goldfish as a beholder.

crude blaze
#

I personally see it as something that human/oids can’t comprehend (due to a beholder’s aberrant nature), but the closest thing we can attribute it to is an obsessive love for a pet.

crude blaze
eager bay
#

The question wasnt is it normal? because the assumption is its not. Whereas humans owning pets is so commonplace wouldnt need explanation.

#

I like the character trait to be fair, its wacky enough to be silly.

mystic merlin
eager bay
#

Dont they keep replacing the goldfish?

sharp owl
#

Yep

crude blaze
#

Yep

eager bay
#

or have I made that up?

sharp owl
#

The current Xanathar just doesn't realise

crude blaze
#

That’s a high priority mission for the Xanathar’s Guild. To replace Sylgar when necessary before the Xanathar can discover.

#

They’re too scared to find out what happens if the Xanathar finds out Sylgar died.

sharp owl
#

It should be noted that the Xanathar is strange even for beholders (although maybe not as strange as Large Luigi)

crude blaze
#

Isn’t it also true that the Xanathar isn’t the same beholder though?

white ravine
#

Correct

crude blaze
#

I’m confident I read somewhere that “the Xanathar” is a title, not a named individual.

white ravine
#

Whenever two beholders scuffle (one being the xanathar), the winner becomes the new xanathar.

sharp owl
#

There was an original Xanathar who founded the guild, but he was killed by another Beholder. However, when this beholder took over, he came to a very odd decision; if he were simply to say "I am in charge" that would be acknowledging the changeable nature of the leadership and entertain the possibility of him being overthrown

#

So he took on the name Xanathar and everyone went along with it because that's what you do when a beholder tells you to do something

#

Then another beholder came along and took over the guild and 'inherited' the same logic

#

So on and so forth in a "The Xanathar is dead, long live the Xanathar" kind of way