#dnd-lore

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desert remnant
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do anything says winged tieflings cannot have wings on back but also for example instead of horns?

zenith dust
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no

desert remnant
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excellent

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thanks

boreal vine
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Is there a list of official deities of the realms within dnd?

sharp owl
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When you say the realms, do you mean the Realms, aka Forgotten Realms?

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The players handbook has an appendix of many deities, including the Forgotten Realms

boreal vine
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Oh! I haven’t purchased it just yet. Been reading through the free one for now. Would it by chance be in the one I’m currently reading through Davyd?

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And I did mean the forgotten realms 😄 I’m not ready for the others quite yet. Isn’t it technically endless though?

unkempt merlin
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There are many settings, official and homebrew. Most have different gods and combos of gods

boreal vine
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Woah

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Does artreus exist by chance?

unkempt merlin
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Mordenkains Tome of Foes has even more gods from the FR in it

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Artreus?

boreal vine
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Sorry it’s something I got from God Of War

cyan tapir
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as well as historical, real-world ones

boreal vine
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I greatly appreciate it Swippinfrafes!

cyan tapir
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Atreus is (at least in part, to avoid spoilers) a construct made by the devs

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As is Kratos, for that matter

boreal vine
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Does this by chance go into depth?

mystic merlin
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You can find various deity lore on the wikis but I find wiki articles to be an incredibly poor resource for this, and it’s difficult to take the knowledge there and make it workable compared to having the texts with that deity’s info from down the years

boreal vine
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Oh!

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I greatly appreciate the input Meek 😄 I just am looking for inspiration for my first character

mystic merlin
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Like, wikis not only take interpretation but that interpretation undergoes peer review to remove anything too textural. To the point of being actively misleading in some places. Be wary if using one and try to use them only to find primary sources to look for!

cyan tapir
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the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide goes into further detail on most of the big players in the Forgotten Realms pantheon, as does Eberron: Rising from the Last War and Explorer's Guide to Wildemount for their respective pantheons

boreal vine
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Ah! >\< you two are really kind! I am very thankful for the resources provided today! Thank you both so much! I think I’ll definitely be able to learn so much more with these resources

unkempt merlin
pastel folio
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I really wish that MToF and VGtM weren't scrapped. They each provided tons of info that went well beyond what MotM was designed to provide

unkempt merlin
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They provided info for a specific setting yea. But a general monster splatbook doesn't need that info, which is why MMM didn't

pastel folio
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When I look at MToF, there's some pretty spread-out lore setting-wise for everyone

crude blaze
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Nah, that’s all mostly Forgotten Realms lore. Especially the sections on the different races and their respective pantheons.

unkempt merlin
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ToF has very very minor mentions of like, two other settings. One of which is Eberron. And it's just inaccurate information.

crude blaze
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Yeah, they randomly sprinkled in like a single god from another setting into the list of drow gods too

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But for the most part, it’s still a FR-heavy book. Same with Volo’s.

ashen flume
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I'm jumping in to a Forgotten Realms game and I've never been in that setting. Can anyone point me to a good crash course?

hazy fox
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All I can think is Adnd comic, Forgotten Realms, and Drizzt.

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That or Baldur’s Gate game.

ashen flume
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Oh, I played BG2 way back in the day. I didn't realize that was FR

cyan tapir
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Trust that you likely won't have to engage with the full breadth and depth of the FR lore as a whole, and only the parts that are relevant to the campaign

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Which you can just ask your DM about

ashen flume
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It's just a Lv10 one-shot, so I'm sure there'll be a lot of context I won't have. I just love lore

cyan tapir
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As far as a crash course, I'm sure there's plenty on youtube

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the most up-to-date snapshot of FR in 5th edition is in Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, which itself is...5 years old, by now?

ashen flume
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Thanks

opal kraken
split sphinx
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It only really matters depending on where you go in the forgotten realms. The BG games don’t matter much to the current lore, and Baldurs Gate 3 is after descent into Avernus. You can learn a lot of the recent lore from the campaign books themselves depending on what areas you wanna know about.

white ravine
desert field
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Hey guys! Chronologically when does the new Dragonlance adventure take place?

white ravine
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War of the lance began in 348 AC (post cataclysm)

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Attacks on the border of Solamnia is in 351 AC, with full on war the year after

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Given what little I know, 349-350 would be the prologue and 351 would be the campaign

blissful umbra
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lil weird question here, does anyone know of known shrines to a god/goddess of knowledge in FR?

sterile breach
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Neverwinter has the House of Knowledge, a temple to Oghma.

fiery jolt
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Gond's High House of Wonders in Baldur's Gate

mystic cradle
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There's several, located in various cities. Also depends which god of knowledge you're looking for

fringe dagger
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Sometimes I feel like the Chromatic Dragons should have been of Any Alignment as they are based on Colour, one of the most basic things ever.

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Plus the majority of major Chromatic Dragons look like actual dragons compared to the some of the major Metallic Dragons with the tail attached wings.

rapid summit
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I do kinda think there should have been 7 dragons a side yeah, but saying orange dragon and yellow dragon dont really have the same kinda bite ya know?
And then we have to think up other metals as well, although Iron dragon sounds pretty cool no one would have ever used the electrium dragon so wed need a different one

vagrant edge
ashen flume
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Just to share, I found a pretty good series on FR lore. A user named Jorphdan has over 100 vids on the history of FR

mystic merlin
stuck breach
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In 1e, gold dragons looked like Chinese dragons and didn't have wings at all

mystic merlin
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Yep. I am fairly confident they were designed to stand in for all lung, ryuu, etc. Which is actually a really neat idea, but hard to express well and even harder to remove from D&D baggage

hazy fox
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So speaking of baggage, Kara-Tur Shou has (awful) alphabet but is there any mention for...other countries there.
That or TSR at the time making assumption that Fantasy Japanese would be using actual Japanese, or assumed that everyone in Kara-Tur used them.
(I mean I kid you not, but they have Indonesian language for Lidahan, except sounded like stringing together words in "Test of the Ronin" module.)

mystic merlin
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A lot of the not-europe stuff seems to come from the era of “we need fantasy Mexico, fantasy China, fantasy Middle East, fantasy Thailand” and not as a labor of love like much of the other bits of realm lore

hazy fox
mystic merlin
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Likely depended on a contractor interested and knowledgeable enough to try

pastel folio
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My understanding, which comes from other people's research on the matter as well as directly from Ed Greenwood, is that the exotic settings were out-of-date by pop culture ideas of the time, incredibly harmful, and unfortunately, went into the official version of Forgotten Realms. Mr. Greenwood, the creator of the Forgotten Realms setting, had vastly different plans for those regions, especially when it came to deities, histories, and cultures, and wasn't a fan of making The Realms become Earth-like. And he had his own home version of FR, and even answers questions sometimes on Twitter and I think maybe Facebook, though his health keeps him from doing it swiftly and frequently.

hazy fox
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This is what I asked if it would fit with Greyhawk or Mystara since OA was written with them as default in mind (though official map had GH as east sea facing than west face along with Gygax's idea of Nippon, Celestial Empire, and Zindia...Oh and Korea is Nippon Dominion).

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Also seems that almost every critic is ignoring Zeb Cook as well, and he is still alive...and not sure if he has been roused after aznsrepresent made a podcast on his book. At least they got John Nephew, who was happy enough to share his production pages.

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Also a shame that they stopped the Kara-Tur let's read...boy, how much they'll be disappointed by other countries.
I mean here is one from Koryo. Like other than xenophobia and Tae Kwan Do, I wonder how they managed to ignore or miss Gat, Han-Bok, and even basic Korean armor (assuming if the padded armor is the one that look like a coat but actually chainmail armor).

Men and women often dress in the all-white linen tunics and pants that are universal work-clothes. Warriors wear heavy padded armor that provides warmth in the ill tempered winter months. Silk is rare and expensive in Koryo, so only the rich families can afford to adorn their women in fancy dresses of satin and silken veils. Archery is a respected, competitive art, as well as tae kwon do, which, in its varied styles and forms, is practiced by all male members of the community. War and invasion are constant threats which keep the people ever alert, and these people only trust their. own, often wrongly accusing strangers rather than malign a fellow Koryoan. They have a reputation for fearlessness in battle, and for highspirited celebrations.

hazy fox
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If it wanted to include other Asian countries, it failed because it's just too shallow to make a PC--let alone a campaign--with many of it being Japan-focused narrative (Like Koryo above, a place too hostile for player characters--who would be "gaijin", Fantasy Chinese, or Japanese--and too shallow to run a campaign besides relics listed in the book). If it wanted to be Fantasy Asia, it also failed because how transaparent it is.
I wonder why it never got criticism until now, and not even critique on playing other non-Chinese or Japanese culture (and closest thing is homebrew discussion from Internet archive). I mean even DMsGuild discussion on Kara-Tur product is too toxic to even accept critique other than positive review on the product.

mint canopy
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what would be a "proper" spellword for firebolt? not sure if this is the right channel to ask

tranquil solstice
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Also the gem dragons, diamond, ruby, sapphire, emerald and I wanna say topaz? I'm not 100% on topaz.
2ed and 3ed had tons of dragons. 3ed prime material plane had 57 dragon races. Plus two epics, the force dragon and the prismatic dragon. Baby prismatic dragon had a CR of around 70 somewheres.
On a baby.

storm dagger
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I think the twenty Dragons we have in Fizban’s is a good number.

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The 5 Chromatics, the 5 Metallics, the 5 Gems, and the Deep Dragon, Dragon Turtle, Moonstone Dragon, Faerie Dragon, and Shadow Dragon

tranquil solstice
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Yeah, 20's a good number. I was shocked when I found out 3e had 57.

crude blaze
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There are a ton of legacy dragons that don’t really need stats in 5E either imo

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Like iirc Song dragons were just metallic dragons who decided to live out lives hidden among humanoids. That’s just a metallic dragon with the change shape feature.

polar ravine
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Within the forgotten realms, is there any more written on how elves feel about the feywild, do they sort of see it as a homeland/ a safe haven like how the elves in lotr see aman or is it different (or is there nothing written and it’s up to the dm)

tranquil solstice
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Gold, silver and bronze had that power as well. Silver especially used it to live near humans.

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In 3e

mystic cradle
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FR seem more insterested in the elven celestial realm than Feywild. And honestly seem disinterested asside from acknowledging a connection to it

storm dagger
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The Solar and Lunar Dragons were not bad additions either.

white ravine
crude blaze
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Ngl it’s kinda odd that by that explanation only eladrin went to the Feywild when I’m pretty sure every elf has fey ancestry.

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I think they all were banished from the Feywild, then they splintered off from there. With eladrin staying behind to hold down the fort.

white ravine
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Well fey aren't exclusive to the feywild is the thing, Corellon is very much fey in nature despite living in Arborea

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They originate from there yes, but not restricted to it

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Elves going to the feywild and becoming eladrin is almost like them going home after several generations

crude blaze
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Yeah, fair. I just read the description of Fey creatures out of the Monster Manual and it does explicitly state that fey creatures aren’t just from the Feywild.

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In fact, it mentions Arborea, which is where I think Arvandor is.

white ravine
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Right, that and the original elves (the Tel-quessir) were spawned in the feywild which is where they get that ancestry from

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(Arvandor is Arborea's 1st layer)

crude blaze
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Still, I kinda like the idea of them all being shunted to the Feywild and being like, “Well… what do we do now?”

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(But I guess that’s not lore, so not purview of this specific channel.)

white ravine
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I mean, technically not wrong though.

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Their options after being banished were the material plane, the shadowfell, or the feywild

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So once they got there...it really was just asking "What now?"

crude blaze
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Sea elves, man. Everyone forgets the sea elves.

white ravine
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I mean...all of them have oceans

crude blaze
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Though I don’t think all of them went to the Plane of Water.

white ravine
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Sea Elves aren't even Plane of Water originated which is the kicker, they just came to the material from the feywild one day

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Old myth says that an armada of elves got sunk in a storm and was rescued by an unnamed goddess, but that's fickle

crude blaze
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Yeah, in 5E, they just went to the waters of many worlds. And the Elemental Plane of Water.

white ravine
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Mhm.

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Over time at least

crude blaze
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WOTC has to catch up. An elf race for every plane of existence. /s

white ravine
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Wouldn't be unfitting

crude blaze
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Yeah, just too much

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I feel like we have enough playable elf bloat as is.

white ravine
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Personally, as long as it's good lore I'll take what I can get

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Better than what WOTC's been horfing up recently...

quiet granite
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What is lore?

fringe dagger
white ravine
quiet granite
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What is the lore for dnd

white ravine
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It's...It is a lot.

quiet granite
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Oh ok so it has a deep history know any websites where i can look up the lore

nova harbor
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forgotten realms wiki has a bunch of stuff

white ravine
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This is the go-to, but you need to do a lot of reading before things start clicking together

quiet granite
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Thanks

fringe dagger
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Because the Bronze Dragon has no tail attached wing.

zenith dust
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honestly that's like asking "what's the lore for TV shows"

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D&D is a game system that covers many settings

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with entirely different lore

fringe dagger
zenith dust
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however There's loads of places to find lore

quiet granite
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Sorry i didnt know what lore was dumb question

white ravine
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No dumb questions

zenith dust
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it's not! just has a big answer

mystic merlin
stuck breach
tranquil solstice
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I prefer the 3e edition dragons looks. Even though at the beginning I wasnt a fan of the gold no longer being a serpent. Funny though, in 3e, Tiamat is 205 feet tall, on her red head. A great wyrm 3ed gold dragon, can teach up to 195 feet tall. They dont have her girth though. Well, they dont have five heads.

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Bahamut, in 3e, stands at 250 feet.

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A great wyrm silver dragon can reach 156 feet in height. A great wyrm red dragon can reach up to 125 feet.
A great wyrm bronze can reach up to 96 feet. Bronze only make gargantuan, not colossal like the others, at great wyrm. A bronze only reaches colossal at twilight years.

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Silver and red dragons reach colossal at 1200 years of age, whilst a gold dragon reaches colossal at 1100 years of age.

vapid atlas
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Still waiting for an official prismatic dragon

mystic merlin
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There was one, ELH.

trail talon
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Electric Light Horchestra

mystic merlin
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There are seventy four different legal variations of the half dragon template in third edition dungeons and dragons if using only first party material, and including the option to have a non-specific Draconic ancestry.

Including the prismatic dragon in the epic level handbook

tranquil solstice
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Read Meeks answer.

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I'm gettin sick n tired of that.
In the 1ed UA, it says ranger gets fighter weapon specialization.
I got accused of making it up, fighter got it in 1ed.
Anyone, wanna explain to me, how the 1ed ranger gets FIGHTER weapon specialization in 1ed.

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Since I "made it up" that weapon specialization exists in 1ed.

mystic merlin
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I see. Incomplete info, my bad.

tranquil solstice
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Np

vapid atlas
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Still waiting for an official 5e prismatic*

polar ravine
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Has got quite a lot too

polar ravine
mystic merlin
polar ravine
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Oh no lol

hazy apex
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so if a celestial turns evil they turn into a fiend right, if they just turn neutral do they turn into something, or do they have to go to the opposite alignment to change

crude blaze
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I think we’ve seen evidence in 5E that it’s not as easy as “being evil” for a Celestial to become a Fiend.

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There are adventures that have evil angels in them.

hazy apex
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whatever the process was for celestials turning into fiends, is it binary or is there a neutral option? (not lawful or chaotic neutral, true neutral)

crude blaze
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I don’t believe there was ever a neutral option

hazy apex
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so if a celestial becomes true neutral and starts living in the outlands nothing happens

crude blaze
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Idk that there’s any official lore for that. At least not in 5E.

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The way I see it, a celestial can be Evil, but has to commit atrocities so counter to their very being so regularly that it radically changes them.

dry wharf
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"Atrocities"? It seems like all you have to do is upset the higher ups. #ZarielWasRight

hazy apex
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so by acting in accordance with true neutrality, they're not committing atrocities to change, so they don't change, even if they aren't acting particularly out of goodness either

mystic merlin
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Channel select fail. Lol.

stuck breach
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According to lore in Baldur's Gate: Descent into Avernus, Zariel had to be transformed into a fiend by Azmodeus, just turning evil didn't transform her.

bright panther
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two questions- is the feywild morphic like the shadowfell? or is it chartable

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and where can I find more info about it? The core rulebooks were quite lacking

iron saffron
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The Feywild and Shadowfell are "echoes" of the Material Plane.

mystic merlin
iron saffron
bright panther
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ravenloft?

fiery jolt
bright panther
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alright! does it generally lean towards the midsummer nights dream influences or the folk tale influences more?

mystic merlin
iron saffron
fiery jolt
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is the shadowfell supposed to correspond to the unseelie court?

crude blaze
bright panther
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dang ok

mystic merlin
crude blaze
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No, the Shadowfell is its own plane. Unseelie Court is still an aspect of the Feywild.

mystic merlin
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Fifth edition uses the Seelie and Unseelie courts as primary and I think the DMG specifically mentions the Gloaming court is now just a subset of the Unseelie court.

bright panther
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afaik shadowfell was just a shadowy place and then magic warfare between gods made it all upside down and undead themed

mystic merlin
fiery jolt
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i thought gloaming and unseelie were the same thing

bright panther
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ive been thinking of adjusting the flavor of the feywild to lean away from the Shakespearean themes cuz ehh they just aren’t very interesting ngl

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i really love the deep forest folklore vibe

crude blaze
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Iirc, Gloaming Court and Unseelie Court are interchangeable. Just as Summer Court and Seelie Court are.

mystic merlin
# fiery jolt i thought gloaming and unseelie were the same thing

They are now, yes. The Gloaming court was separate, before.

Anyway. The Unseelie don’t like themselves to the same decorum and beauty standards as the Seelie, so you’ll have hags, trolls, goblins, monsters of unique and twisted mien, and mutants who took on deformities in the name of power being there.

fiery jolt
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there's just so many different folk tale versions to integrate

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the lore kind of blurs the Scottish, English, and Norse versions

mystic merlin
mystic merlin
crude blaze
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If you look towards the Domains of Delight splatbook on DDB (which I suppose isn’t official, but was written by WOTC, so I think it’s worth at least knowing about), the Unseelie Court isn’t even necessarily a court of “evil and darkness”, it’s just a court of more chaotic leanings than the Seelie Court, which is more like the quintessential “fey with decorum” vibes.

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Like neither one is necessarily more good or evil than the other, they’re just opposing philosophies. Which I find to be an interesting twist from past iterations, where they at least alluded to one being “more good” than another.

bright panther
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the 5e dmg I think mentioned it’s not even philosophies

fiery jolt
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kind of lines up with the new helpful hobs, like Puck from Midsummer Nights Dream - mischief, but not evil

mystic merlin
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You can still find web archives of some of the wizards official articles on the faerie courts from Gwendolyn Kestrel, but since they deleted their archives it’s not possible to link them 😦

bright panther
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it’s just that the leaders kinda dislike each other

mystic merlin
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In the world axis model, the Primordials made the world in all its multiple, contradictory glories. They then stood back, and said “🤔 naaaah” and ripped out the brightest highs and the darkest lows, casting them into the void.

As those lumps of primordial creation floated, they returned to a semblance of their original form, mirroring the material and becoming its Echoes.

In 5e I have no idea. I don’t think anything new has come out and I don’t think the forgotten realms had any indication of origins even in 4e? But I didn’t look too close at the time cuz I didn’t like the realms back then

crude blaze
crude blaze
unkempt merlin
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Seelie and Unseelie are more (albeit not entirely) Blue and Orange philosophy rather than Good and Evil

mystic merlin
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I don’t think that’s “third party” necessarily? Maybe second, I dunno. I think it’s, if not official, then darn close. So much so that Perkins actively mislead me on the WbW stream reveal, and j bought WbW thinking the stuff he elaborated in in detail in the WbW stream were in WbW and I’m still sore as hell about that.

bright panther
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yeah I think 5e just kinda says the universe is complicated and we don’t know for sure and leaves it open ended

crude blaze
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Like in my personal world, the Feywild was what’s left of the gods’ first draft of a world (the Dawn World), and the Shadowfell is just more aligned with the afterlife (the Dusk World).

mystic merlin
mystic merlin
crude blaze
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Yeah, that’s what I mean. I don’t think they’ve gone deep into it in 5E for the explicit purpose of people deciding what to do with it themselves.

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And as we all know, as much as this is the lore channel, said lore is gonna vary by setting.

mystic merlin
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But yeah. I’m a little peeved at the Un/Seelie courts eating the others because one of my PCs is archfey of the Gloaming court, this is Me. personally™️ erasure! TashaLOL

crude blaze
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Maybe it’s best if we start our lore descriptions with something like [5E] or [Eberron] so people know what our info is coming from without constantly saying things along the lines of, “At least that’s how it is in 5E”.

mystic merlin
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Third edition faerie was very much midsummer nights dream. 4e branched out front that and fleshed out a more rounded and fulfilling system.

5e keeps more of the Midsummer Nights Dream than not

Fifth edition uses the Seelie and Unseelie courts as primary and I think the DMG specifically mentions the Gloaming court is now just a subset of the Unseelie court.

I have been! 😛

iron saffron
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4E lore was essentially subverting everything that happened before. (I kinda ignore most of 4E lore as a result)

mystic merlin
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Though I left out setting names, so that’s my bad.

iron saffron
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D&D lore based on editions/settings is like DC Comics' Crisis/Flashpoint reboots.

mystic merlin
crude blaze
unkempt merlin
west bear
mellow ferry
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Technically, magic didn't get broken, just the most commonly used, easiest way to access magic.

The Weave facilitates access to magic, it is not the be-all and end-all of magic. There are numerous less-well-known magical sources.

west bear
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What are other sources? Except weave some powerful beings can grant power, is there something else?

mellow ferry
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Raw elemental energy, shadowstuff, the void between the planar borders, all sorts.

All spellcasters who relied on the Weave had to find alternative sources of power to draw upon for their magic during the Spellplague period (assuming they survived the initial magical shock).
Like, the Weave still existed, but it was so frayed, that any time anybody tried to use it to power a spell, the results could be entirely unpredictable, if it worked at all.

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If it has inherent power, then you can potentially draw upon it for the purpose of fuelling magic. It's just a matter of figuring out how.

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That's why the Weave is so popular, because it removes that hurdle.

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Same sort of concept in Dark Sun.

There are ways to cast spells on Athas that don't destroy nature, but it's so much effort to discover how that nobody can be bothered to try, and just use despoiling magic because it's so much easier.

mystic merlin
mellow ferry
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No worries

mystic merlin
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I don’t think preserving magic is actually harder, it’s just weaker

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Gracious my fingers are cold TashaLOL

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I don’t know though. I think in FR, the weave and magic are sufficiently one and the same; the weave is a structural imposition but not separate from magic, as the strands of ley lines that comprise it are considered literally the veins and nerves of Mystra in a very real sense; removing the weave creates a dead magic or anti magic area.

Shar was able to construct a shadow weave, but Shar is also one of like three primordial powers older and in some ways stronger than Mystryl was

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I think what we’ll find on digging though is that what the weave is and how magic works is actually not internally consistent beyond vibes

mellow ferry
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Ed Greenwood left the concrete metaphysics of the Weave deliberately shrouded in mystery.

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Even the gods don't really know how it works, as evidenced when Lolth tried to create her Demon Weave.

mystic merlin
mellow ferry
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It was covered in several novels and a couple of adventure modules.

Lolth decided, that with Mystra gone, she could become the new goddess of magic. She set about collecting every scrap of Weave magic that she could find to fuel her new 'Demon Weave'. One of the big effects this was used to create was blotting out the sun over the Silver Marches to facilitate a drow/orc invasion of those lands.

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That ended when Mystra announced her return to the Realms

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What Lolth didn't realise, in attempting to do this, was that her Demon Weave was completely reliant on the efforts of the servants of Mystra stabilizing and fixing the parts of Mystra's Weave that were damaged in the Spellplague, in their unrelated efforts to restore Mystra to godhood.

mystic merlin
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@analog oxide this sounds up your alley, what series would this be?

west bear
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Where can I find those novels? Are they official by WOTC?

mellow ferry
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Actually, looking at it, there are a couple sources missing from that list.

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Council of Spiders and War of Everlasting Darkness just off the top of my head

west bear
mystic merlin
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Tons of novels are out there for each setting, I was more interested in the specific plot line 🙂

mellow ferry
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I've added the missing sources

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But yeah, 2012 was like, the Year of the Drow for D&D products, and it was largely (but not exclusively) fuelled by this Rise of the Underdark metaplot involving Lolth's Demon Weave.

mystic merlin
#

Yeah that’s on me. I was out of the D&D scene entirely 2009 to late 2012 and didn’t do modules

true rain
#

Anyone know where can I find info on lore and culture of celestials in 5e?

mystic merlin
#

Which setting?

true rain
west bear
#

There's "Demihuman deities" and "Faiths & avatars" but they're from older editions

stuck breach
#

For those of you who don't know, "demihuman" was what they called all the non-monstrous, non-human races in 1e. Elves, dwarves, etc. were "demihumans," while orcs, goblins, etc. were "humanoids"

restive yoke
mystic merlin
quick escarp
#

suggestions on what god a character raised by fire giants would worship?

lofty bloom
#

depending on the pantheon, you could use sirrion, hephaestus, maybe moradin?

#

any fire gods or forge gods

#

maybe war gods like ares as well

quick escarp
#

I was thinking of moradin. My character is a duergar, the giants he was raised by inherited a gigantic forge and raised him.

#

If the giants worshipped moradin, that could give reasoning for raising my character at all.

#

seeing him like a sign, as moradin is a dwarven god

#

moradin being a "hard but fair judge" also works with my character.

lime holly
quick escarp
#

they live among an ancient forge, that happens to be giant-sized

lime holly
#

Fire Giants have been renowned for their metalwork for tens of thousands of years, certainly not out of the ordinary

quick escarp
#

i think having them be "odd" fire giants could also explain how my interactions with giants are normal.

#

or well, not favored by how i was raised as a giant

lime holly
quick escarp
#

can you hit me with a summary of all-father's beliefs?

lime holly
white ravine
mystic merlin
#

Moradin is more than the god of smithing though. And I think there are other gods of smithing.

lime holly
#

Gond would be the go to god for smithing in the Forgotten Realms, for humans anyway

stuck breach
#

Surtur is the patron deity of the fire giants

white ravine
analog oxide
#

and the novels i reference are like 1998 to 2007 IIRC in terms of dates (ie. prior to 4e)

#

sorry just saw the replies. ya. its after the series im kinda familiar with

blissful umbra
gray heath
thin hound
#

OK question
Asmodeus, Old hoof and horn would he ever bare children and if so what would that be like?
I'm imagining the celestial ego from guardians of the galaxy 2

#

Like with a mortal like an elf or human or something

final hazel
#

What would cause Asmodeus to be angry at Zariel?

#

Like, enough so that he would murder one of Zariel's children

#

And with that, does conflict between the Lords of the Ninth usually occur?

sharp owl
#

Yes, but usually only when one has eyes on the throne of someone higher up

cunning girder
#

I imagine more intrigue and subterfuge than out and out conflict between them

final hazel
#

And would Zariel ever have conflict with Asmodeus due to that reason? Or could there be other reasons

#

Basically I want Zariel and Asmodeus fighting (not physically with each other but like being mad at each other) to make sense

cunning girder
#

Zariel is super into fighting the Blood War. I could see her upset at Asmodeus if he wasn't providing enough support to her armies

final hazel
#

(Asmodeus angry at Zariel)

cunning girder
#

I don't really know enough of Asmodeus' lore to comment sorry

final hazel
#

It's cool, you've already helped

thin hound
#

Wat kind of reasons would Asmodeus have for seducing a mortal, he wouldn't want like an actual heir

ionic rivet
#

To create a tool to sow chaos in the material plane

thin hound
#

Disorder to create order?

ionic rivet
#

to further his cause via causing other power structures to wobble

thin hound
#

Would he want an actual heir cause like he can't die really, neither does he want to but would he plan for that in a worst case scenario at all

ionic rivet
crude blaze
#

I’ve always thought of her as one of Asmodeus’s greatest success stories: a corrupt angel who now leads the infernal army against the demons of the Abyss.

thin hound
#

How much control does Assie have on the blood war? How much is he playing both sides

white ravine
#

However, the result of a mortal and Asmodeus (for whatever ungodly reason, most likely part of his unending schemes) would be something akin to an Empyrean, albeit with a more hellish glamour to them.

thin hound
white ravine
#

Something akin to it, yeah.

#

Some abhorrent mix of Empyrean and Pit Fiend merging into a monolithic Tiefling of sorts.

#

A genius-level fiend with godly power to boot.

#

Easiest example I can think of for Asmodeus wanting to create a demigod heir would be as a pawn to dismantle another demigod-being. Could play matchmaker and have the two retire to a tall mountaintop so Asmodeus can pluck a magic item out from under the half-god's nose. Who knows.

thin hound
#

Ok new question how does giant translate?
I've only ever played as they only speak one word sentences but what does the lore say?

#

So for example if they see their own they would speak "kin" in giant or if they saw a dwarf or halfling they'd point and say "small"

white ravine
#

It's...a lot.

#

They tend to leave out copulas (words that join the subject and descriptors). For example, instead of "Time is almost over." a giant would say "Time almost over."

#

It seems to be very similar to icelandic

thin hound
white ravine
#

Not particularly, but also not wrong.

#

I'm just trying to be a bit basic honestly, because fantasy language is not a strong suit of mine

#

One thing to note though is that every giant has a unique dialect of the giant language

#

One dialect is an exception which is specifically for gatherings of many giants

thin hound
white ravine
#

The former, fire vs storm

thin hound
#

OK awesome

white ravine
#

One thing I am noting as I read back through though is that apparently a lot of the giant's numbering system lines up with swedish.

#

2, 3, 5, 7, and 1000 all are directly swedish.

#

However, if we are learning to count in giant (which we're doing now because why not)

#

You go the multiple followed by the individual digit

#

1 = et
2 = to
3 = tre
4 = fir
5 = fem
6 = sek
7 = sju
8 = att
9 = ni
10 = tier
100 = hund
1000 = tusen

#

So, for 30, we'd say tre tier.

#

For 7183, we'd say sju tusen et hund att tier tre.

#

Oh, sorry. Had it backwards.

#

And for 105, we'd say et hund fem.

#

Also...strangely, the only listed ordinal number is second, called 'stot'.

thin hound
#

Thats awesome 💜

#

Would they address goliaths as kin or nah?

white ravine
#

...I wouldn't say no, but not yes. It varies. Some giants may like them, some may want to keep them as manual labor. They tend to avoid giants more often than not, safer that way.

storm dagger
pseudo wind
#

Your daily reminder that the idea of the Blood War being necessary for the multiverse to not be overrun by demons is devil propaganda and Mordekainen is probably being manipulated by Asmodeus for pushing this view in his book

This post was brought to you by the definitely-not-demon gang

obsidian gate
#

this seems like a very trustworthy source

storm dagger
# final hazel (Asmodeus angry at Zariel)

Asmodeus has no issues with playing the Lords of the Nine against each other, and doing intrigue.
But even if they plot against him and conflict, this does not bother him. If he's truly upset he can simply demote them and remove them from their position.

pseudo wind
#

In all seriousness I do tend to have that viewpoint be a thing brought up in my games, and while it isn't necessarily true, the Blood War is, in fact, contributing to the universe's premature destruction. The stalemate is worse. And once this comes to light...it ain't gonna be pretty

storm dagger
#

The Upper Planes largely support the Blood War as well, and I would say it's a net positive.

west bear
#

Doesn't Asmodeus have total control over Nine Hells and can shape it however he wants to?

crude blaze
#

Yeah, the Upper Planes is gonna have to do a lot more work on their part if one side wins the Blood War

storm dagger
#

While it causes bad things to happen, the alternative is the lower planes doing full on war with the upper and neutral ones instead of reletivly small skirmishes.

mystic merlin
pseudo wind
#

I wasn't really a fan of how cosmic Good seems indifferent to the Blood War at first, until I read that while the celestials don't intervene in the fighting in the Lower Planes, this stops when they bring their fight anywhere outside of it

mystic merlin
#

Yeah the blood war is very much “let them fight, fence them in” because the clash of two conquering infinitudes against each other keeps them out of everyone else’s house

pseudo wind
#

Basically "have your brawl on your own turf but the second you threeten the well being of innocents we're gonna smite you"

obsidian gate
#

the alternatives to the blood war are:

-demons win and overrun the multiverse ->very bad
-devils win and try to conquer the multiverse -> pretty bad too

  • the upper planes get together to end both sides? massive risk of just total annihilation
west bear
#

Yeah if upper planes get involved everybody loses

storm dagger
crude blaze
#

The political intrigue within the archdevils of Baator are truly wild

pseudo wind
# obsidian gate the alternatives to the blood war are: -demons win and overrun the multiverse -...

Well in my game at least, no one is actually sure if one side winning would be bad, because no one remembers a time before the war. No one actually knows if the stalemate is better, if the demons are capable of overruning everywhere else

Also, the obyriths are probably gonna end up hijacking everything and present a massive threat to the cosmos. A threat that only, say, aband of plucky heroes can stop

#

Course that game premise is only for players who want that kind of cosmic scale

mystic merlin
storm dagger
mystic merlin
#

Was it the 1e book? Fiend folio then, or where? I know that’s where Titivilus hails from

storm dagger
#

She was titled Princess of Hell and Consort of Mammon

#

Monster Manual 2

#

Which is also where Titivilus came from.

mystic merlin
#

Hmm. Think I have that on my shelf but not sure, I’ll check

crude blaze
#

My favorite archdevil is Mephistopheles. Homie’s just in his icy lair experimenting with hellfire, perfectly happy to play by Asmodeus’s rules.

#

…until the right time comes, that is.

#

Dispater was actually a big player in my Tal’Dorei campaign too

storm dagger
#

He's explicitly not. He's the the one that most wants to overtake Asmodeus.

mystic merlin
#

“Wants to take over” is Distinct from “is actively rebelling”

Although I think he is actively rebelling too?

#

Actually wasn’t it him who kicked off the 3e shift of hell?

pseudo wind
#

That's not mutually exclusive, to a point. I think he's very open even to Asmodeus that he wants to take his throne but still plays by his rules

storm dagger
#

None are actively rebelling

mystic merlin
pseudo wind
#

Oh wait no I'm thinking of Pathfinder's Mephistopeles, nvm

crude blaze
#

That’s from MToF though, I know he has some more stuff in Minsc and Boo’s (which again, not necessarily official, but still written by WOTC, so worth considering imo).

mystic merlin
#

Yep, MM2, her power derives from being consort to mammon, which is hilarious.

storm dagger
#

2e and 3e had a Hell Civil War called the Reckoning. All the Archdevils rebelled against Asmodeus, teaming up into 2 factions. Team Baalzebul, consisting of Baalzebul, Moloch, Zariel, and Beliel, and Team Mephistopheles consisting of Mephistopheles, Dispater, Mammon, and Geryon.
During the final battle of the war, a siege of Baalzebul's palace, Geryon revealed he was secretly a double agent and loyal to Asmodeus the whole time. His forces then back stabbed his team, and Asmodeus's own loyal forces suddenly came and shattered both rival armies. Forcing all the Arch Devils to wait in their lairs for Asmodeus to come for his victory lap and them to submit.

#

Yeah books after that state she despised him, and was happy to get out of his shadow.

mystic merlin
#

And left Geryon, the only loyal devil, out in the cold to boot

#

Ugh BoVD is in a box in a cabinet so that’s not comin’ out right now. TashaLOL

crude blaze
#

Minsc & Boo’s plays with the idea that when Mephistopheles pulled a big plot to try and unthrone Asmodeus, he was the least punished, insinuating that there may be some ancient secrets to their relationship with one another. Pretty interesting.

storm dagger
#

Yeah after the Reckoning Asmodeus for no clear reason removed Geryon from his position and gave it to Levistus, despite Geryon having been loyal.

crude blaze
#

Geryon doublecrossed another he pledged his loyalty to. Sounds like good enough reason to now keep him outside of the bubble.

#

“If you betrayed Mephistopheles, who is to say you wouldn’t do the same to me some day?”

storm dagger
#

Yeah during Asmodeus's victory lap, he went to all the devils to punish or reward as he saw fit.
He went to Mpehistopheles who submitted and basically rubbed his victory in, but did not do anything more than that.
He went to Baalzebul and punished him with the lies and slug form curse.
He went to Moloch who did not submit based on bad advice and removed him from his position. Replacing him with a Night Hag and then that Night Hag with Glasya.
He went to Geryon and removed him despite his loyalty and gave it to Levitus.
He went to Belial who afraid of punishment preventively gave up his throne to Fiernia to avoid it.
He went to Mammon who was the first to go back to him and repledge loyalty, and seemed to reward him.
He went to Dispater who retreated deeper into his fortress afraid of consequences.
He went to Zariel who had been overthrown by Bel when she had returned, and was fine with Bel keeping her position.

mystic merlin
#

Looks like I’m remembering the web enhancement wrong, too. It has Geryon, but he’s the only devil.

So it’s likely the fiendish codex that first gives us details on Glasya

analog oxide
#

didnt BovD first detail glasya?

#

and then her update in codex 2

mystic merlin
#

I dunno, I’m not digging it out.
I know BoVD has the hag countess and not Glasya, and later Glasya is given her layer of hell

analog oxide
#

ok im looking at her now. luckily i keep my BoVD nearby. it doesnt like being..away....

#

she's part of asmodeus' servants sectio

mystic merlin
cobalt lotus
#

Are there any Canon druid thieves in any setting

mystic merlin
#

Bards in Greyhawk, I believe

cobalt lotus
#

Are those.. Druids?

mystic merlin
#

Using the progression of “a bard is a Druid-adjunct who takes training first as a warrior and then as a thief, before entering their bardic training as a Druid”

This is backed up by the fochlucan lyrist, which is a prestige class that allows you to “relax your Druidic oaths” to wear metal armors and also requires some measure of rogue training, mostly focused on stealth, secretive entry, and social maneuvering.

cobalt lotus
#

Cool

jaunty holly
#

Weird thought: do skeletons brush there bones like how we brush our teeth? If so do they feel the brush on their bones?

mystic cradle
#

Lol, maybe a necromancer lovingly cleans them in their time off when not experimenting or dealing with adventurers

quick escarp
#

essentially in the underdark there's this resource called fire lichen, maybe the fire giants have their massive forge in a mountain near the underdark so they can use fire lichen in their smithing

#

this puts them directly into contact with duergar and dwarves

lime holly
#

Very nice, that's some really interesting worldbuilding I'm sure your DM will appreciate

quick escarp
#

maybe wrong channel but i also want my characters goal to be to visit the underdark and obtain fire lichen so he can smith a greatsword which will be perfectly suited for his fire rune (basically a flametongue greatsword)

unkempt merlin
#

What setting?

late storm
#

So, how exactly do harpies reproduce?

zenith dust
#

Ask your dm

grim dagger
#

That's not a useful answer in this channel.

ionic rivet
#

Long ago, an elf wandering a forest heard birdsong so pure and wholesome that she was moved to tears. Following the music, she came upon a clearing where stood a handsome elf youth who had also paused to hear the bird’s song. This was Fenmarel Mestarine, a reclusive elf god. His divine presence stole her heart as he fled, vanishing into the woods as if he was never there.

Though the elf searched the woods and called for her stranger, she found no sign of his passage. Driven to despair by her longing, she begged the gods to help her. Aerdrie Faenya, elf goddess of the sky, heard the elf’s cries and was moved to her aid. She appeared as the bird whose song had entranced the outcast god, then taught that song of beauty and seduction to the elf.

When her singing failed to draw Fenmarel Mestarine to her side, the elf cursed the gods, invoking a dreadful power and transforming her into the first harpy. The curse worked its magic on the elf’s spirit as well as her body, turning her desire for love into a hunger for flesh, even as her beautiful song continued to draw creatures to her deadly embrace.

#

That's where they came from. No info (at least in the core 5e books) about how they reproduce.

late storm
#

Yeah thats my problem

ionic rivet
#

I'd think they'd likely reproduce like any other creature/monster

zenith dust
#

At least not in print

#

One can make assumptions based on things like real world birds

late storm
#

Dying noob?

ionic rivet
#

Likely like regular animals - there's nothing suggesting they have to do it any other way.

late storm
#

Oh, you suggesting?

ionic rivet
#

There's also no suggestion that harpies are all female and with no males

late storm
#

Ah, I see

#

So, would you run half-harpies?

ionic rivet
#

No - if anything I'd take an Aaracokra or Owlin and reflavor if that's something a player wants to try (harpy PC)

late storm
#

Ok, just asking

ionic rivet
#

Trying to balance random internet-found homebrew into a game can be challenging

late storm
#

Ok, so do you agree with me that the ecology of the lamia was weird?

#

Like, really weird?

ionic rivet
#

What, the minions of Graz'zt part?

#

Or are you talking about the historical Greek mythology?

drifting trout
#

They could reproduce thro8gh parthenogenesis and lay eggs 🥚

white ravine
white ravine
late storm
#

Just read ecology of the lamia, ok?

white ravine
ionic rivet
#

That's what I was saying - there is nothing saying harpies are only female.

white ravine
#

Oh.

Im very tired lol

ionic rivet
#

no worries!

white ravine
storm dagger
ionic rivet
#

yeah we kind of covered that already

mystic merlin
mystic merlin
late storm
mystic merlin
#

If that’s literally it, then… that’s literally it Shrug

I surmise they’re probably like basilisks and come from a human mother being forced to sit a harpy Eagle egg or something by a witch

analog oxide
#

@mystic merlin im going thru guide to the astral right now

devout elbow
#

I've never thought of Harpies laying eggs...rather I believe they live birth like mammals.

#

It was my assumption they carry off sailors for purposes other than food.

#

Hence their siren song

spice meteor
#

Parthenogenesis is a possibility.

mystic merlin
#

Yeah, I do like some settings hinting at spontaneous generation and such.

marble bane
#

It would be neat if it was like an elf equivalent if a balrog

#

*tannaruk

#

I think

#

The orc demon thing

red torrent
#

Hello everyone! Is it canonical that the entrance to the Beached Leviathan in Neverwinter is in the stern of the ship? I've read that the entrance is into what was once the cargo hold, but I've never seen a real world tall ship that has an opening in the stern, since that part of the ship is actually pretty weak.

burnt sparrow
#

I have the perfect idea of a warforged paladin artificer multiclass

#

In the depths of war you forged weapons to kill and hurt

#

But after the terror of war swept through you

#

Left with nothing

#

You turned to the gods

#

You now forge weapons to bring Reightous justice on those who sin

spark haven
red torrent
spark haven
#

I mean, taking the boat out of the water did that in the first place

#

Drydocks are specialized and exist specifically because ships are a lot like fish. They literally aren't meant to exist out of the water

#

Structually, they rely on buoyancy to not crumple under their own weight

#

or at least they can

#

If you lift a boat out of water onto fully dry land to use as a tavern, you're already committed to shoving reinforcement beams and other infrastructure into and onto it

red torrent
#

I think that's the only thing I can find that is canon, is that it is still in the water, next to the docks, but run aground, with a punctured hull

spark haven
#

Yeah if it was beached or still-afloat-but-now-people-have-nailed-a-community-to-the-side-of-it, that'd make sense

#

and like, don't get me wrong, we literally have magic at our disposal

#

you absolutely CAN lift a boat out of the water and put it on dry land

#

if you have access to that much sustained magic

#

These guys don't seem poor, so it's not out of the question that there's some arcane architecture

#

but as a baseline i'd assume a gang of pirates would mostly stick to mundane, material means

#

which is why i went all material sciences on it

red torrent
#

Ok, so basically canon or not, it's widely accepted, and irrelevant since there would be little restriction on the things that could be done by a rich ex-pirate as far as custom architecture. Thanks @spark haven !

spark haven
#

For sure. Gravity is merely a suggestion here.

mystic merlin
spark haven
#

That's a cool point too. Sometimes ships aren't worth keeping seaworthy to begin with

#

maybe it's a historical artifact, maybe it's just bad business

#

A ship at harbor is safe!

#

Maybe the pirates got attached

#

More attached to the boat than the sea

red torrent
#

Maybe Harrag intentionally ran it aground as a path to becoming a legit business person.

red torrent
spark haven
#

certainly a lot less stressful than sailing

valid crystal
#

what would healthcare be like

exotic bay
#

It really depends on setting, it could be anything as knowing a certian type of plant mixed with something to have medicinal effects

valid crystal
#

would it be safe though

#

hemlock in astors ale

exotic bay
#

Depends on how good the doctor is

#

My last dnd character was an Reborn Way of Mercy Monk who was techinally a doctor before dying.

#

The healthcare is good enough to keep people alive mostly.

valid crystal
#

it was designed to br incurable

eager bay
#

How would you say the Vancian magic system works in-universe for the "default" D&D campaigns?

white ravine
eager bay
#

Three main rules:

  1. Magical effects are packaged into distinct spells; each spell has one fixed purpose. A spell that throws a ball of fire at an enemy just throws balls of fire, and generally cannot be "turned down" to light a cigarette, for instance.
  2. Spells represent a kind of magic bomb which must be prepared in advance of actual use, and each prepared spell can be used a limited number of times before needing to be prepared again. That's why it is also known as "Fire & Forget magic."
  3. Magicians have a finite capacity of prepared spells which is the de facto measure of their skill and/or power as magicians. A wizard using magic for combat is thus something like a living gun: he must be "loaded" with spells beforehand and can run out of magical "ammunition".
white ravine
#

Hmmmm...thats a tough question off the top of my head...

#

In-universe explanation for that...er...

#

#1 is simple enough however, the act of casting spells is manipulating the Weave. The latent magic has to be focused in specific ways to give desired results, so you cant just flail around and blow up a town.

valid crystal
#

is that you

eager bay
#

yep

valid crystal
#

Man what a coincidence joezieTSclaude

eager bay
#

My previous username got botted by the server

valid crystal
#

what was it

eager bay
#

because of my old username. Apparently the SI-word isn't allowed

valid crystal
#

what word

eager bay
#

yeah

eager bay
#

Basically that they don't explode in two or three hits lol

white ravine
#

A wizard that cant swing a stick can often find themselves in heaps of trouble when it comes to things like beholders

eager bay
#

I reckon your untrained mind be able to prepare 1-2, maybe 3 spells

#

most lower-end wizards with some proper training 4-6

#

and then then the most elite up to 12, give or take

mystic merlin
# eager bay How would you say the Vancian magic system works in-universe for the "default" D...

A magic user learns to access the spiritual half of their body. Through supplication in prayer a cleric or druid has their pattern imbued; a wizard can through study and mental, gymnastics, and develop psychic structures that allow them to contain energy in their pattern; a sorcerer, and to a lesser extent a barred Learn discrete spells by shaping their spiritual aura to create patterns;

These patterns carved in the channels of their soul are the spells. Through various methods, they are able to channel arcane energies into the portion of their spiritual body, which shapes, channels, and then activates. Under the right types of magical scrutiny, you can see what spells a sorcerer nose, because they are graven into air being. These are immutable for the prepared casters.

fringe dagger
#

I’m afraid I don’t know too much about how things in Dungeons And Dragons works. I’m gonna have to play Dungeons And Dragons or games from the series to learn about it before I can start talking about them.

#

The only thing I’m already a big learner of are the dragons (and the lesser dragons). Lol.

eager bay
#

Do Pixies just get wished into the World by an Archfey and are thus immortal?

fathom rapids
#

I don't know if the origin of pixies is ever explained, at least in 5e. Their page in the monster manual doesn't say anything about that, but I suppose I wouldn't know if that tidbit got dropped in an adventure book somewhere, or something like that

crude blaze
#

My personal headcanon is that they were dreamed into existence by an archfey or a god of the fey.

mystic merlin
stuck breach
#

"Lord, what fools these mortals be" and all that

spice meteor
fast zephyr
#

If I got it right, for, let's say, a fire-based dragon, their fire becomes hotter as they get older?
Been reading about something and I've stumbled into a comment on the internet regarding that.

#

Or is that specific to something, lore-wise?
I'm relatively unknowledgeable about lore in general, besides some reading.

zenith dust
#

The damage increases for sure

eager bay
crude blaze
#

In 5E, they have Fey ancestry, but are not fey themselves.

eager bay
#

Aah yeye

mystic merlin
# eager bay Would elves be considered fey?

Not in fifth edition.

There is.. slim precedent. In 1e narrative rules some elves are indicated to be either fey or close enough (the Grey Elves, called Faerie, and some background lore that posits the grey elves and dark elves as Seelie and Unseelie). They’re given a lifespan still though.

In fourth edition, it was possible to be a fey elf (from memory; I should check). Elves were mortal plane dwellers and Eladrin were not; they came from the feywild and may have been classed differently.

Once the game starts to care about creature type as like. Categories? It goes the way of “playable options are medium/small humanoids” very fast though.

pseudo wind
#

fun fact, eladrin were considered the CG celestials back in the day

#

paradoxically were both fey and celestials I think

eager bay
#

Anyone know if the Drow politics system from the book series legends of Drizzt is real (I think it is because he's included in the 5e players handbook

stuck breach
eager bay
#

As in that it applies to a campaign

spark haven
#

It can if you want it to

eager bay
#

and the 5e edition Drow

spark haven
#

There's no singular DnD canon

stuck breach
#

It will apply to a campaign as much as the DM wants it to

spark haven
#

Even within a given setting

eager bay
#

Ok cool thx

stuck breach
#

In fact, there's no canon, that's the official word of WoTC

spark haven
#

There's decades worth of text from thousands of authors

eager bay
#

fair enough

spark haven
#

it's a big box of legos, just plug together whatever you think looks cool or helps you build the thing you want

stuck breach
#

If you're the DM, feel free to use whatever you want in your game. Bits and pieces of lore from any D&D book ever or any other book, movie, tv show, dream, whatever you want.
There's no responsibility to adhere to any "official" version of anything whatsoever.

mystic merlin
#

The way Salvatore rqrites dark elf politics is canonical to the Drow of Menzoberenzan campaign, setting for fifth edition, in so far as anything, not in a rulebook, is canonical in the fifth edition

#

If you are playing a game of dungeons and dragons in fifth edition, but not using the forgotten realms, campaign, setting, how dark elves work might be different

white ravine
white ravine
eager bay
#

Yeye

#

How tall do you see them being? Not specifically from official source material though; more headcanon and maybe drawing a bit more from Tolkien to an extent

white ravine
#

I mean...everyone goes for the tolkien example because the tolkien example is...well the tolkien example.

#

You're more likely to find people who use the tolkien example than the actual height measurement

eager bay
#

I picture high elves being a good deal taller than normal humans, while wood and drow elves roughly human height

white ravine
#

High elves are slightly taller than humans on average

#

Wood elves tend to clock out as even taller than high elves on the high end (less on the low end), and drow are the shortest of all three overall.

eager bay
stuck breach
#

Most elves average around 5'

#

(That's standard D&D stuff, feel free to choose something different in your game.)

iron saffron
#

Were the elves in Greyhawk taller? I think the Valley Elves were human height.

gray heath
#

Because Greyhawk. And Greyhawk elves are generally standard height (as they are Gygax's defined heights.) Valley elves, one subset/isolated community of high elves, are a little bit different.

white ravine
gloomy brook
#

How long can a reborn live? Do they age?

white ravine
#

Reborn are if I remember right effectively immortal

#

But then again, its the semantic of "they do not live, they unlive"

gray heath
#

Note that Drow, per the table in PHB, can never reach 6 feet. They are 4'7" to 5'5" per that table. Other elves are 4'8" to 6'2".

polar ferry
#

Hello, I think this could be the best place to get some help. I am going to start a campaign in Faerun, and I would like to have some help giving flavour to my backstory to make it lore accurate, so if you guys could help would be beautiful. It is my first time playing on a official map and I am quite ignorant on the subject, so your guidance would be very much appreciated

white ravine
#

Memory failing me

spark haven
polar ferry
#

Yeh

#

Which clan or region would be ideal for a sword crafter?

#

Sorry, I thought I was cutting the current conversation, my bad

#

I want him to be like a human raised on a dwarf family of craftsmiths

eager bay
iron saffron
#

Nope., that's all flavour/cosmetic.

eager bay
#

You think either high or wood elves be able to grow up to 8ft?

white ravine
#

Ask Andre the Giant

#

He may know something about that

gray heath
eager bay
mystic merlin
white ravine
mystic merlin
stuck breach
#

Elves have always been around 5' tall in D&D

#

Tall elves is Tolkien, not D&D

white ravine
eager bay
eager bay
opal pendant
#

Ok greyhawk fans, I dug into the lore for The deity known as Celestian. What is the name of followers of celestian, as I can’t seem to find a reference?

hexed plaza
gray heath
#

Celestians?

opal pendant
quick escarp
polar ferry
#

Thanks, I will take it into account dndExciteBite

gray heath
#

I think it's more that Celestian has a more esoteric portfolio, much less important to the common Oeridian than his brother Fharlanghn.

crude blaze
#

iirc he had more presence in Spelljammer. Older edition, at least.

gray heath
#

Which would make sense. A god of the heavens would get more "customers" in a milieu focused on the heavens.

vagrant inlet
#

Does somebody know lore example(s) or rules for chromatic/metallic crossbreeding dragons? I saw info about mixing dragons with other creatures and chromatic/chromatic, but nothing about chromatic/metallic.

still island
white ravine
vagrant inlet
white ravine
vagrant inlet
#

i dont remember examples from it but i will look again, i can be blind sometimes

white ravine
#

Iirc its like page 27 but dont quote me if im wrong

tranquil solstice
#

Metallics also secretly view themselves as the only true children of bahamut.
In 3e draconomicon lore.

hazy apex
#

how were people educated in the FR, just libraries and parents?

rough fractal
#

Paying tutors and sages I think, right?

#

Hey, for those that use settings with Alignment like FR and Krynn, how do you set up common understandings or definitions for Alignment for your players? Do you find it difficult to get a "right" answer for Alignment?

spark haven
#

Most education in societies with that tech level would be on-the-job stuff. Someone ( usually your parents or the local lord ) would decide you're a cooper or a smith and you'd train on the job with someone. The incredibly wealthy and connected would have access to school as we'd understand it, a place where the only thing you're doing is studying and learning a subject, and not simultaneously doing a thing that you or other people need done to continue eating and living

white ravine
hazy apex
spark haven
#

If you weren't, you weren't eating, unless there was someone providing food for you.

hazy apex
#

i mean i'm assuming that if you're like 5 your parents are feeding you

spark haven
#

Sure, but kids were also helping with the farm or helping stock shelves at the general store

hazy apex
#

so it really is as soon as you're able

spark haven
#

If you aren't super wealthy, yeah

mystic merlin
white ravine
#

Probably?

gray heath
#

Even the super wealthy, or at least the nobility, are probably working at 5. Never too early to pick up a sword and start learning the family business.

stuck breach
#

If your parents had some money, they'd send you to apprentice to a master tradesman when you were 7 years old.

#

The master tradesman would teach you the trade over the course of several years. This would be your education.

#

If your parents were wealthy, you'd have private tutors.

#

If your parents were poor, the only education you'd have would be whatever your parents were able to teach you.

drowsy wraith
#

Does anyone know what the moon on Faerun is like in canon? Is it liveable? I'm thinking of doing an online campaign where a village gets transported there and it's basically a prehistoric forest / swamp

white ravine
#

The moon in DND is really crazy

#

Because there's actually a giant magical illusion that gives the moon its look

#

Once you go there, you realize its hiding a massive spelljammer harbor.

pseudo wind
#

IIRC the air is breathable on the moon, and it's not freezing, but definitely not especially warm either. That being said, nothing saying there can't be some primeval rainforest somewhere on it

white ravine
#

The air is breathable, but the temperature never goes over 60 but never drops below freezing

cunning girder
#

60F degrees?

tranquil solstice
#

In 3e, theres only a few things to even use at all, to figure a deities cr, if you were going to.
In3e standards Ed Greenwoods Elminster, was 34th level after he squared off against Mystra, when she challenged him. An avatar, In 3rd edition, is only half the strength of an deity. Deities, in 3rd edition, dont fight to the death, they fight to half hit points, then retreat. Elminster woildve been 33rd level, so 27th level wizard when he dueled Mystra and won. Mystra, goddess of magic, couldnt be weaker than demogorgon. So she'd be more powerful than 27th level. If, by 3e, her avatar was 27th level, thatd make her at least 54th, for the deity herself, as it explicitly stats in 3e, avatars are only half the power of the deity.
So, with that, and her outsider hit dice and her divine rank, which is all you get to even try to figure a deities cr in 3e, would be no less, than an 84. Numbers dont lie.
This, is only numerical way, to make Ed Greenwoods Mystra, canon by 3edition numbers for cr.

#

Based on Elminsters duel with her.

#

Demogorgon couldnt possibly be more powerful than the goddess of magic herself. Meaning, Elminster faced an avatar.

#

By 3e standards,he would have had to.

#

Otherwise, mystras avatar would be 13th 14th level wizard.
In 3e??

eager bay
#

Its such an abstract idea to me that a god such as mystra would lose a duel against her avatar.

tranquil solstice
# eager bay Its such an abstract idea to me that a god such as mystra would lose a duel agai...

Elminster would be her Emissary. Emissary is even in the epic phb 3e and states what an emissary is.
Not her avatar.
3e avatars are an replica of the deity.
Avatars in 3e, are not other beings. They're a replica of the deity themselves.
3.0 edition deities and demigods, salient abilities.
Avatars are an perfect replica of the deity themselves.it does not mention anything about them using other beings. Not by RAW

umbral gyro
# tranquil solstice In 3e, theres only a few things to even use at all, to figure a deities cr, if y...

I would point out that numbers only go so far when you have legitimate lore reasons for something as well. Elminster is Forgotten Realms, and Forgotten Realms deities have limitations on them not present in other campaign settings. Avatar's in Forgotten Realms specifically are not distinctly "half the power of a deity", they are "a fraction or portion of the deities divine power". They are that way because the Deities all got locked out of the Divine Realm during the time of the troubles, and are as such not fully immortal anymore. In other settings, such as Greyhawk, Deities are immortal unless killed within their home realm, but are at their most powerful in their own realm, and send out avatar's to minimize any threats to themselves and also because a full deity showing up on the prime material plane is very dangerous to the deities realm, such as Zuggtmoy getting stuck in the Temple of Elemental Evil for like 10 years and half of her realm getting taken over by Jubilex during her absence.

So while, say, Saint Cuthbert can send an avatar to Oerth to do things, that Avatar is only a fraction of Cuthbert's true power. Cuthbert won't expend all his energy to show up on Oerth and risk getting ambushed by Iuz or another deity, or getting trapped and his own realm taken over by someone else, nor would he be able to really send his entire being to Oerth anyway. The Deities have rules even they have to abide by, which are more prevalent in Forgotten Realms since Ao strictly forbids deities from direct interference and limits the power of Avatars. Numbers are great and all, and old 3e rules are a great starting point, but you really need to get into a settings nitty gritty rules, whether mechanical, lore or just implied, to make such a statement and it really have any weight to it.

tranquil solstice
#

It's the numbers that tell it.

#

Elminster dueled Mystra, not himself.

#

Look at his character levels, then factor in where Mystra would be.

#

But I'm done. It's simple numbers man.

#

Jeez ppl. Look at the math.

#

Besides, they dueled when Mystra was still in her home domain. She walks the earth after.

umbral gyro
#

So first off, you didn't even remotely address the points I just made specifically pointing out that numbers are ultimately moot here for well known lore reasons, which are unique to each campaign setting. Also, stop the fragmented typing thing. Use complete sentences. I started playing with Planescape, and I'd wager most of these other players pointing out the major flaws in your logic are also 3e players, or like me, 2e players that have been around the block plenty of times.

tranquil solstice
#

She dueled him while still in her domain.
By 3e standards, she still wouldve had salient abilities as 3e deity. Like avatar. Which she has.

#

I said by 3e standards

umbral gyro
#

She also dueled him in Ed Greenwoods writing, which has Mystra and Elminster being lovers, and IIRC that duel was not her seriously battling him. But again, this involves Forgotten Realms 3e deities and thus Forgotten Realms specific rules for deities. That includes Ao the Overgod locking all the deities out of the divine realm, directly linking their power to their worshipers, the deities being able to be fully killed by each other and even mortals if they have the right equipment, and Avatars being a fragment of their power, not half. Furthermore, there is no rule that says Mystra can't use an avatar to fight Elminster in her own realm. I don't remember why the duel happened in the first place tbh, but I'd wager it doesn't matter that much if Mystra, well known to be one of the most powerful deities, is considered to be weaker than Elminster. As an aside, she elevated Azuth to full godhood prior to 3e, and Azuth is canonically much more powerful than Elminster at every point, all the way through his death in 4e. Your numbers arguments are distinctly lacking and in many cases outright omitting context, and from that really becomes the equivalent of a fallacious push poll.

tranquil solstice
#

I never said she couldnt fight him in her own realm. That's the other guy saying that.
I said by book, she fought him on faerun.

#

In the book.

#

Mystras avatar faced him on faerun. Other guy said whatever bout fighting in her realm.

#

I said she was in her own realm.
Meaning her avatar faced Elminster on faerun. She left domain, THEN walked with elminster.

#

So by 3e standards, she'd still have her salient abilities while she faced elminster while she was still there in her domain

#

One of which, is avatar lol

#

Is what Iiiiii said.

#

So as faerun walking deity, NOW she doesnt have an avatar. While she's earth walkin with Elminster

sharp owl
#

@tranquil solstice Again, please don't post sentence fragments, instead post whole, complete statements

eager bay
#

[Forgotten Realms]

Is there anything like the Aeons in Pathfinder? Or is it just basically Primus?

snow laurel
#

so in OneD&D they seem to be really emphasizing divine magic's ties to the outer planes and "primal magic" is tied to the inner planes... does that mean that arcane magic is linked to the feywild and shadowfell (and, also, do these two planes have a collective name?)

mystic merlin
mystic merlin
unkempt merlin
#

Short answer
Yes
Longer answer
Defining deity rules inter setting is a horrible time

mystic merlin
#

I mean more, does the third edition rules set give their deities different rules in the forgotten realms book as opposed to the generic 3e book 😛

vagrant inlet
mystic merlin
#

You were right about page number @white ravine but it’s not very intensive!

Crossbreeds between dragon species are not unknown, but very rare. A hybrid dragon of this sort is usually left to fend for itself, but on occasion both parents (if they are on good terms with each other) might watch over it until it reaches adulthood.

And that’s it TashaLOL

No rules or even discussion on what the results are.

hazy apex
#

big lore question

#

why doesn't ao demote vecna

pseudo wind
umbral gyro
# mystic merlin I mean more, does the third edition rules set give their deities different rules...

Yes. Though again, there are also lore rules and implied rules.

In Forgotten Realms lore, Deities are only able to be killed because Ao locked them all out of the divine realms when the tablet of fate was stolen, with only Helm retaining divinity. This sealed the majority of every deities power, bound their power to the number and favor of their worshipers, and made them able to die if killed.

Meanwhile, it is stated that deities avatars "a fraction of the deities power" but they are implied to be separate sentient entities under the control of the deity. The level of power an avatar has varies wildly, though some have stat blocks.

Additionally, it is implied deities can't freely enter the material plane by an event where several layers of the abyss overlapped with the material, which resulted in yeenoghu spending a day running around bashing heads in. Normally he needs to be summoned.

Though swampellow is correct, defining deity rules by setting has always been a headache.

gray heath
hazy apex
gray heath
#

Or "Realmspace" isn't a thing with the lack of crystal spheres floating in the phlogiston and folks call to him and he answers.

#

The point is, Vecna is a deity from Greyhawk so the linkages aren't there in the core of FR. The DM is in total control of what deities exist in their campaigns. If they want Vecna in their Realms, Vecna is in their Realms.

mystic merlin
#

There is a reason you’re supposed to discuss both the setting and the edition when bringing up lore! It’s not cohesive across all fifty years. 🙂

#

Vecna now exists in Faerun because they put him into the 5e stuff. But he’s originally from Greyhawk’s Oerth.

The trick is [5e Faerun] ||Vecna has access to time magic. He’s “canonically” gone back in time both to obfuscate his origins and also to undo the culture that made time magic like this, or sommat. He does this via the obelisks in the hard backs.||

#

I… can’t remember where specifically his connection is though, actually, so take that with salt unless you know specifically where he’s mentioned doing stuff?

#

But also like… I don’t recall Ao being mentioned very much at all in 5e, which has its own sort of derived history?

gray heath
#

And there's also the question of, assuming Ao could bar Vecna from Faerun or strip him of his divine status, why would he?

iron saffron
#

I "cross the streams" in my Forgotten Realms campaign setting because I take inspiration from old Dungeon Magazine and modules (the current campaign is the 3.5E Dungeon Magazine adventure path, the Savage Tide, which was set on Oerth and I had to convert to Toril). For the side quest of the wizard PC I'm looking at some Greyhawk modules that deal with the Eight — there's already precedence of Greyhawk lore in the 5E "mainstream" with the mentioning of Mordenkainen and Tasha/Iggwilv.

#

There are plenty of "interloper" gods from other spheres/worlds, such as Tyr, now in Realmspace.

mystic merlin
#

Fifth edition lore, it should be pointed out every Grayhawk entity that is present in the forgotten realms, has access to the spell dream of the blue veil, which I think is literally called out as being able to take you from greyhawk to the forgotten realms.

I think that gets lost a little bit, along with the dungeon, Masters guide, mentioning other settings.

#

Does the saltmarsh book mention anything about Greyhawk? 🤔

iron saffron
#

It does say the original modules were Greyhawk based.

gray heath
#

Yep. GoS, like TYP, notes that the modules are generally set in Greyhawk with setting conversion for others.

#

And plane shift is another one that readily allows crossing into other settings.

iron saffron
#

I've never played in Greyhawk but have done plenty of modules based in Greyhawk that we ignored campaign specific stuff in our generic campaign world back in AD&D (I don't think we knew what a campaign setting world was back then).

gray heath
#

Presumably, this is how Elminster routinely visits Ed in his living room and invites Mordenkainen, and occasionally Dalamar, to join him.

hazy fox
#

Part of me began to see why WoTC wasn't keen on updating Spelljammer until recently.
Like sure they do have magazines, but seems that they kinda ommit them to limit setting-crossover.
At least from 1d4, even if they're associated with certain image board, seems to have assumption that 3E era try to make settings as standalone.

mystic merlin
#

Living room? I thought they met at a bar.

mystic merlin
# hazy fox Part of me began to see why WoTC wasn't keen on updating Spelljammer until recen...

The point seems to be limiting the degree to which crossover undermines the dungeon Masters. There is a tendency to see things in the book as “well, technically this is how dungeons and dragons work, even if you don’t want to admit it“ but in all cases involving alternate fine material claims, the fifth edition of writing really wants to give you the impression that these are possible ideas, but should not be considered the truth until your dungeon master confirms it

gray heath
#

Yep, Ed's living room. There is a story in an old Dragon about Elminster making Ed hide in the suit of armor in his living room because the other two didn't know he existed and would be quite cross to know some interloper was "spying" on them.

mystic merlin
#

The hardest part for me to believe about that story.

Is that at Greenwood has a suit of armor in the living room

gray heath
#

I can absolutely believe he has one of those display suits there 😉

umbral gyro
#

To be fair, there are two sides to this coin as it pertains to crossover material and "canon". As a reference, the official change from 2e to 3e occured from the "Dead Gods" adventure, in which Vecna decided to screw around in Planescape. He failed, but did almost succeed, and so the Lady of Pain rewrote the entirety of the multiverse to ensure that these things didn't happen again, which is what simulated the change from 2e to 3.5, so there are precedents for crossovers to occur and matter.

Though on the other hand, 5e writers tend to just use the whole "It's up to the DM" line as a way to avoid having to do work and write a concrete rule or define something to any meaningful degree. This was a problem in 4e as well, though 5e has really turned it up a notch. While anything and everything is up to DM discretion is just a general rule, even official rules can be changed or outright ignored by the DM, it's not always the best idea because consistency is the fundamental building block to a good world and good play, even in a joke campaign the world has to have some inner consistency. Inner consistency SHOULD be present the moment it's published by 5e writers, but that's not the case. As an example for when something minor can become an issue, Undead creatures are supposed to be immune to exhaustion. Only a little over half possess the condition immunity in their stat block. I recently had this come up in a session where we realized that vampires lacked exhastion immunity and we checked all the undead to verify, and as a DM I had to make that consistent ruling that "All undead creatures are immune to the exhaustion condition" as that's a "rule as intended" that just became an oversight of the writers.

iron saffron
#

Yeah, I liked in 3.5E that creature types had set resistances/immunities. Like you mentioned, in 5E it's all over the place.

gray heath
#

Diegetic reasons for rules changes never really felt useful to me, but that's neither here nor there. Greyhawk, for example, never had a Godswar to define the transition from 1e to 2e. And I wasn't aware of anything happening in the Planescape lore to explain the 2e/3e transition.

mystic merlin
#

I also really don’t think characterizing making it clear where a hook ends and is intended to be a hook is “avoiding making a rule”, so much as acknowledgement of what their job is. The game’s majority of history understood that a DM’s job was making most of the stuff up and making the rest fit what they had. Only recently has the idea that the game company not putting it together for you is a bad thing begun to be majority opinion.

iron saffron
#

Die Vecna Die was at the end of 2E and gave a reason for the transition to 3E, no?

mystic merlin
umbral gyro
#

I disagree with that, quite heavily. History wise, 1e was when Gygax and other writers cut their teeth on the material, and then by 2e we had the split between "Rules Lite" and "AD&D" where adnd was known for it's extensively crafted and well defined rules and writing. This stayed the norm through 3.5 and only seems to have started to fall off in 4e, and has become almost common place in 5e. As examples (I tried to post them but server has that locked) I have a PDF of Oerth Journal 11 and also Dungeon Magazine #128. The amount of meticulous detail that used to be in writing, not just for lore but intertwinning the lore as part of the basis for rules, was far more prevalent in earlier editions. It was most certainly not seen as a common or good thing for a company to "not put it together for you", that defeats the very purpose of a source book.

I recommend downloading the PDFs of those two books as examples, and finding old content like March of the Modrons to really get a good handle on it. Comparing what is now called "Legacy Content" with 3.5 content is like night and day as far as how much detail has gone into the writing, and the ability of 5e writers compared to 3.5 writers to keep an internal consistency or even care about finer details is demonstrably lacking. In some cases, severely so.

mystic merlin
#

I don’t think something happening historically indicates that that thing is good. I don’t feel that it is demonstrated that detail is better than no detail, and I think history vindicate the idea that it is actually better to have hooks for story, instead of a solved history to try and portion out to the players.

Further, I don’t think Gygax is a good example, because however, much, he said to stick to the rules, and that the rules should be written in such a fashion, in actual play he did nothing of the sort. That was a sales pitch and not his actual preference for how the game should function

unkempt merlin
#

He was also very heavily antagonistic in his DM style... among many other bad qualities

mystic merlin
#

I’m aware of how older modules and articles worked. I have read and continue to read them. I have in my bag for prep as we speak. But even that gives you multiple opening possible hooks instead of establishing what the objective truth was.

mystic merlin
unkempt merlin
#

Interesting. I've heard the opposite

mystic merlin
#

Some of that may be forgetfulness, some of it may be revisionism, some of it may be different starting standards. But it seems consistent outside of his persona as declaring, the one true way to play dungeons and dragons for marketing purposes, and his screeds on Internet forums, he seems to have been pretty soft? It’s consistent enough across enough different people that I think I just will never find out.

unkempt merlin
#

I don't remember quite which book(s) it was but there was at least one that had a note of (essentially) "the game is player vs dm"

mystic merlin
# unkempt merlin Interesting. I've heard the opposite

Yeah, it’s difficult to tell for sure. But we get weird stuff like, one of the supposed origins of the tomb of annihilation or tomb of horrors, which ever ones the older name, is that he was being ribbed for being a softy, so he put it together as a “I’ll show you“ murder fest.

#

But yes, tying a bow on it. I feel that lower, which is not accessible and usable in play is not important. It’s nice to know so you can do your own stuff as a jumping off point, but I do not think the official riders making jumping off point so that you don’t have to discover your own is a bad thing.

grim siren
#

Gygaxian DMing is certainly a style of play. It is a different style of play and while I can't recall of him being "Bad" His style is certainly not the standard for 5e. But there are some interesting things he did. My favorite and something I have adapted for my home games is the full body screen. Where he DMed from behind one of those room dividers used for changing clothes. Its not for everyone but my players enjoy it.

mystic merlin
#

My favorite anecdote was the time he pulled all the drawers out of a filing cabinet into the open position to of secured himself

#

I definitely find myself leaning more towards the school of Arneson, however, for a variety of reasons, including that the role of referee, being an impartial and fair, one who can root for the players, while still being vicious toward them, being something, I easily get. The sportsmanship of the game is very important, and rarely discussed in those terms.

grim siren
#

For sure. Gygax wasn't necessarily cruel. Outside of Tomb of Horrors which was designed to be cruel. He was very realistic, tracking everything, travel, food, water etc. If that is cruel he'd probably tell you that is how it would really be if the setting was real. Which while not everyone's style. Isn't necessarily wrong.

mystic merlin
#

Gygax was also a human man who experienced changes broadly every two years throughout his tenure as THE dnd guy, a lot of stuff that’s just not polite to discuss.

I take my cues from 1975 Gygax, who would himself tell me that he has as much authority over my game as George Washington does. Worth knowing what he thought sometimes, but never to copy.

stuck breach
#

As someone who played AD&D in the late 70s-early 80s, I can say that we used only some of the rules and played the game as a story-first game, not as a pure dungeon crawl.
I'm not saying that everyone played that way, just my friends and I (but I would bet that other people also probably played it that way).
I'm also saying that to say that everyone didn't play the game the way Gygax played it (and that using the game with story in mind wasn't the invention of Hickman as we were doing that before Hickman published his "manifesto" and before Dragonlance was published).

grim siren
#

I recently added the OG Planescape box set to my collection I can't wait to refer to it in addition to the 5e revamp. (Please WOTC don't Spelljammer it.)

mystic merlin
stuck breach
#

I'm from California, so that might track

#

Though at the time, my friends and I were children, so deriding us would probably have been rather mean-spirited

mystic merlin
#

Probably yeah. Don’t know if that would have stopped it though 👀

narrow pagoda
#

Hi ladies & gentlemens , can someone say me if there is a "canon" way to travel from a D&D world to an another ( exemple : Starting in Forgotten Realms and after some time "travel" to Dragonlance universe ) with the same characters?
It's not for soon but i start thinking about a plot where this kind of journey will be important.
I can homebrew something of course but if there is something about that in the canon i'll take it!

( Sorry for my bad english, not my native language )

sharp owl
#

There are several ways

  1. Cast Dream of the Blue Veil, Teleport, or Teleportation Circle (depending on if the setting is within the material plane or not)
  2. Use a spelljammer vessel to travel out into the astral sea and then arrive at another material plane
  3. Use Plane Shift to enter an intermediary plane such as the Astral Plane, and then Plane Shift back to your desired plane
narrow pagoda
#

Ha Thanks for the quick answer ! The second possibility was the one i hope to be possible ! 🙂

white ravine
#

The fact that plane shift can be used to change settings because WOTC's nonsense with the astral will forever hurt me.

unkempt merlin
#

Technically you don't even need the Astral for it

#

Most other planes (feywild, elemental planes, ethereal, etc) would work

As well as just... shifting directly to another material plane. (Provided you know about it)

And ofc Sigil has been a thing for a long time

iron saffron
#

Other systems/worlds/spheres are in the same Material plane.

The Astral plane connects the Material plane to the Outer planes.

sharp owl
#

You've always been able to use Plane Shift to hop settings, even before they shared a material plane (which was a thing long before the 5th edition version of Spelljammer)

#

Starting at A, you Plane Shift to B, then Plane Shift again to C, regardless of what planes A and B are on; the same or different

#

OG Spelljammer is what placed all/most settings in the same material plane, but that didn't change the Plane Shift route, it just became Plane A to B, B back to A but in a different setting

narrow pagoda
#

Interesting, seems many of the answers about this question is in "Spelljammer", i've not read this book yet, but it seems it's a key content to understand astral things and travels..
The spelljammer vessel option seems really cool in term of storytelling, it seems it can give to high level players that finally they're not so big fishs in ocean... and the travel itself can be really fun to play.

Well, think i've found my next D&D purchase!

tranquil solstice
#

The astral plane is definitely for high level big fishes. It's actually one of the reasons the astral plane exists, is for them. As is shown in the immortals book from becmi.

mystic merlin
eager bay
#

BIG OL NOOB QUESTION

Is there any solid proof that the MONSTER MANUAL can be used by a character in-game? Is it widely considered to be an actual manual in the D&D verse?

cunning girder
#

Volo's exists in the Forgotten Realms. Not sure if the Monster Manual does, but it is a question for your DM as their setting may have lore books

mystic merlin
#

Candlekeep theoretically contains every book in existence… somewhere in there. It’s, if not extradimensional, then sufficiently uncharted.

jaunty turtle
#

I need a answer I can't find one

#

Overall what are the views on races like Tieflings and Shadair Kai from The Church of The Silver Flame?

unkempt merlin
pseudo wind
#

yeah that article nails it. the mainline Church of the Silver Flame generally promotes compassion over zeal. The average follower or priest isn't gonna froth at the mouth and transform into a Warhammer 40k "PURGE DA HERETIC BURN THE UNCLEAN" type the second they see a tiefling.

The Church recognizes that tieflings ultimately have free will like any other mortal, and thus isn't always inclined to be a threat like true fiends

grave blade
#

it helps that dnd's cosmology isn't such that the tieflings are going to turn into flesh eating monsters sooner or later

pseudo wind
#

true, though people don't know that, and in Eberron it's more fear of what a tiefling birth represents, or rather, a planetouched tiefling's birth. They're touched, both body in mind, by fiendish planar power. Tieflings from the Venomous Demesne come from pacts with dark powers.

It also helps that most people on Eberron don't associate "horns and red skin" as evil, since the demons they're most familiar with are the rakshasa

unkempt merlin
#

More likely to think a tiefling is a funky minotaur than anything else in a lot of places

pseudo wind
#

yea

left lion
# mystic merlin Oh, for sure, I think they were distinguishing between the Geneva group, and the...

The California group here was Cal Tech, which even the folks in LA called Dungeons and Beavers. The Cal Tech group published their rules variant as Warlock in 1975 in a magazine call The Spartan. Those rules were the first to have race-as-class and had a thief that was based on the original from Aero Hobbies. While Aero was the home of the thief class and the owner of Aero had called Gygax to share what they did, it the Warlock thief that is more closer to the Aero version.

The main thing that Gary and others poked fun at was that the Cal Tech group would level up fast. From what I recall from a telling by someone who played with them for a bit, they leveled fast, got to what was considered really high levels for that time, and then started over. So, on the one hand, it seemed like these players were playing an OP game. On the other hand, you could think of it as accelerating advancement so they could get to play through various levels, which most people going through the grind would never experience. Kind of like, "why have all those higher level spells, if we will never to those levels before we graduate from school?"

There was a lot of hacking of the rules then.

mystic merlin
left lion
mystic merlin
#

Thanks! Never would have found that.

The cal tech stuff is now gone, it seems, so this is a boon

dense hinge
#

Hey is a shadow (the monster) tangible when attacking? Or is it still a shadow attacking your own shadow?

mystic merlin
#

Shadow the monster is not as intangible as an actual literal shadow*

#
  • except when it is, such as third edition’s use of incorporeality
dense hinge
#

What im confused about is that the way it is described seems contradictory to how it attacks.

#

It behaves like a shadown in a wall but when its attacks are described it seems it takes a corporeal form to do harm?

mystic merlin
#

Shadows are like darkness that exists as a physical thing. It’s cloying and almost amoebic.

You could view them as an amoeba or slime that flattens against a wall and then jumps off, or you could view them as a literal shadow that reaches out of shadows like a tentacle from a portal

dense hinge
#

hmm i see that makes more sense

mystic merlin
#

They’re tangible to silver in the olden days. Many an adventurer found out of their kingdom had scimped on materials when making silver coins by hoping they could throw them or similar and strike true

#

But shadows are always sort of sense-defying. That’s their thing. They’re an animate and hungry form of what we understand to be a side effect of something else

umbral gyro
#

That's normal, sadly. A lot of monsters are described as FAR deadlier than they really are.

Shadows are just perceived of as being a "shadow on a wall" but they reach out and attack. Ever see the...I think UK based film "attack on the block"? Shadow is like the beasts from that film. Light hits them different do they appear to just be "literally pitch black like darkness". Shadows are about the same, literally pitch black as though made from darkness. Their also flat, like paper cut outs. So they hangout flat against walls or floors, then attacking they stop hugging the walls and floors.

dense hinge
#

I see thanks that gives me the idea on how to use the shadow in my next session.

#

Ill just use it to mess with my players instead of direct combat and torment them a bit with a half CR monster haha

mystic merlin
#

Be careful with them. While Lord of the waffle house implies they’re not that strong, they’ve been literally capable of destroying the world within days if the DM thought about it in past games.

#

Only the way the stories they come from explain how to use them had held them back. TashaLOL

umbral gyro
#

Yup. You may also look into using them like White Plum Mountain did, they can be folded into super small shapes. I once had a villainous necromancer who mailed shadows in envelopes to people as assassination attempts, because they can be folded and inserted into a sealed envelope.

#

A lot of it comes down to dm's not using monsters to their full potential

umbral gyro
dense hinge
#

I plan on using it as a bit of a ghost moving things around trying to kill an NPC the PCs have to protect. My players are not THAT intelligent tbh 😂

#

They are a chaotic bunch, cocky too with a "murder it first ask questions later" when it comes to monsters.

umbral gyro
#

I forget how intelligent shadows are, but they are bound by necromancer and stronger undead frequently. Make them move as a unit so they can move more things and bigger things.

dense hinge
#

Oh yea already got that part covered

umbral gyro
#

Also, have them anger someone by killing their brother, and then that person hire Giya'thaal, the necromancer, to start sending them envelopes with shadows in them.

dense hinge
#

Jesus chill

#

😂

umbral gyro
#

Kek

dense hinge
#

I plan on sending wraiths, a werewolf and several dire wolves after them later so its fine 🙂

umbral gyro
#

Top kek

dense hinge
#

they are 6 level 6 PCs

#

theil be fineeeeee

#

I just wana scare em a little 🙂

#

and if by some miracle they are smart enough they may discover the vampire that summoned the shadow as a grand prize.

sonic root
#

have mephit ever plane travel i wanna do a homebrew fight and ice mephits look good to used but was just cerious if they can for lore accarcy

unkempt merlin
#

in 5e

Ageless tricksters, mephits gather in large numbers on the Elemental Planes and in the Elemental Chaos. They also find their way to the Material Plane, where they prefer to dwell in places where their base elements are abundant. For example, a magma mephit is composed of earth and fire, and it favors volcanic lairs, while an ice mephit, which is composed of air and water, favors frigid locales.

white ravine
#

They usually slip through elemental vortexes and kind of just scatter to their favored locations to spend their time at.

analog oxide
broken depot
#

Yea

alpine magnet
#

What

#

?

#

It says I'm a new user and I can't post links

#

Alright guys I wrote some lore about the origins of familiars in my homebrew setting but it won't let me post the link to the Google doc so if you want to see it I'll have to DM it to ya

obsidian gate
#

this is to prevent spam and scam accounts from posting. you can soon post links

alpine magnet
cunning girder
#

Also might be worth posting in #moderator-support, just so they can check if there is something funky with the permissions

alpine magnet
#

Nah I think I just forgot to get roles

#

There we go

#

Can you see the link now?

obsidian gate
#

yep

alpine magnet
#

Nice

#

But yeah tell me what you think if you read it

sharp owl
#

@alpine magnet this channel is for discussing official lore, you probably want #dm-discussion

alpine magnet
#

Aight

halcyon laurel
#

Is there something like a "True vampire"

#

Like a greater vampire or something

alpine magnet
#

Wdym by that

#

There's suggestions in the MM on how to edit the Vampire statblock to make it more powerful

halcyon laurel
alpine magnet
#

As opposed to Vampire Spawn

#

Ah dang
Forgot it sends only to dms

#

They're like vampires but dumber and not sentient

halcyon laurel
#

No, something about a type of vampire greater than others

cunning girder
#

Nothing generic that I can see from a quick search, but you could probably homebrew Strahd's statblock to make a Vampire Lord generic block

halcyon laurel
#

Thanks for searching :D

mystic merlin
# halcyon laurel Is there something like a "True vampire"

A true vampire is contrasted with vampire spawn, usually.

A true vampire is their own bloodline origin, effectively; they can make their own spawn and also their own true vampires. A vampire spawn can only make other spawn, if that, and can also no longer advance; they’re presented in some editions as like the minions you see in old movies, animals wearing remnants of human memory and personality, versus the true vampires which function as we understand, people to function.

Third edition handled this with two stat blocks, the spawn which capped at five hit dice and never grew, and the vampire template which modified but did not stop advancement of the character it applied to.

Dndbeyond has this to say

Born from Death. Most of a vampire’s victims become vampire spawn — ravenous creatures with a vampire’s hunger for blood, but under the control of the vampire that created them. If a true vampire allows a spawn to draw blood from its own body, the spawn transforms into a true vampire no longer under its master’s control. Few vampires are willing to relinquish their control in this manner. Vampire spawn become free-willed when their creator dies.

halcyon laurel
mystic merlin
#

This does seem to indicate that true vampire is still obverse to vampire spawn. Although I think vampire lord was a thing before so lemme dig

Aha!

#

So, “true vampire” is just to distinguish from thralls / spawn, but vampire lord does exist as a forgotten realms thing

#

A vampire lord must be
• 10th level or equivalent
• a century old
• a true vampire who
• has slain its former master (must have been a spawn?)

#

And they get a slew of upgrades but the most interesting one for me is

The only way to make sure that a vampire lord does not return is to cut its head from its body, burn the body and the head separately, scatter the ashes from the body over running water, immerse the ashes from the head in holy water, and bury the immersed ashes in consecrated ground. However, if the head ashes are ever unearthed and somehow separated from the holy water, dried thoroughly, and then subjected to an unhallow spell, the vampire lord can regenerate in a week if the ashes are placed inside one of its places of rest.

halcyon laurel
#

I think it's assumed that it didn't just appear

#

Unless there's something that causes vampirism other than vampires

mystic merlin
#

So a vampire lord is similar to a lich in many ways, regarding their immortality. Much easier to figure out how to kill but also you’d have to know they’re not just a normal vampire

mystic merlin
halcyon laurel
#

Only semi-permanently

mystic merlin
#

The flesh of orcus is a material that, if consumed, turns you into a vampire. Whether it’s actually his flesh or just named as such is up in the air

halcyon laurel
#

Yeah I bite Orcus

mystic merlin
#

What you do in your off time is your business, comrade

halcyon laurel
#

On one hand you become stronger faster etc etc but on the other hand you can't eat garlic bread

#

Ugh the stat addition is so good though

#

But garlic bread is far to important

mystic merlin
#

You can’t eat anything. Vampires don’t consume food, I think in 2e they were specified as throwing it up if the tried. Violently.

normal blaze
#

Building a dnd campaign but not really knowledgeable on locations but can anyone suggest a country that is mostly peaceful??

cunning girder
#

In what setting?

halcyon laurel
#

That would suck

cunning girder
#

Longevity. Also a bunch of lesser vampires were probably turned non-consentually too

halcyon laurel
#

Yeah but they're lesser vampires so not eating is the least of their problems

#

Also longevity sucks if you don't have some grand goal

mystic merlin
halcyon laurel
#

Only I am smart enough to make deals like that

mystic merlin
#

Of course

halcyon laurel
#

So many easy ways to get immortality and everyone picks undeath

#

You think rotting is sexy? Is that the case?

#

Because I can assure you that it's not

#

Vampire look and feel like a corpse

#

Where's the appeal?

mystic merlin
#

Assuming easy ways to get immortality seems like the sort of gloss you get when someone says to a doctor “curing cancer is easy just invent medicine that chemically affects the cancer it’s easy”, if we’re being honest.

halcyon laurel
#

We know of ways to reach immortality

mystic merlin
#

Also the undead generally do not rot. They are preserved in most cases, with Lichdom and possibly zombies being the exceptions I know of offhand

mystic merlin
halcyon laurel
#

Just become a level 17 wizard, duh

mystic merlin
#

They exist, but how easy is it to research the process and methods in character?

halcyon laurel
#

Just google it

#

And stuff like clone is not exactly hidden knowledge for the powerful people who become liches

mystic merlin
#

“I wish I was immortal” is potentially workable but “just become a 17th level wizard” is not easy, most folks fail that task.

Googling is a complex process of using the old version of Augury in combination with a dozen or so algorithms to create the ability to find where to go to read about it, but you still have to get there then gain access.

Whereas becoming both immortal and stronger than a human requires getting eaten, way easier

halcyon laurel
#

They're just not ambitious enough

#

Specifically liches though

#

I guess vampires can just be stupid people

mystic merlin
#

Sounds too memetic for my taste
🍵

lament sparrow
#

Hey guys. Any good reading where I can find dragon lore. Example. Could an ancient red subjugate an ancient green. And what’s the best evil dragon for plots and impersonating a king?

Thanks for any help.

forest rock
#

For 5e?

lament sparrow
#

Yea

#

Yes*

forest rock
#

Ancients can turn into a humanoid that’s in their lore, fizban’s is the most upto date dragon stuff

lament sparrow
#

Is there a color more likely to do it or all can/do?

cunning girder
#

I think greens are supposed to be sneaky and manipulative

lament sparrow
#

Cool thank you.

spice meteor
#

Reds are powerful, arrogant, and brutal. Greens are devious, arrogant, and cunning.

obsidian gate
#

forgotten realms wiki is a decent start, even if some of the lore isnt up to date anymore

#

otherwise, Fizbans is the 5e dragon book

spice meteor
#

All dragons are arrogant, but I can see a Green "pretending" to bow to a more powerful Red but all the while scheming and planning to betray them.

lament sparrow
#

Ah. Good ideas.

spice meteor
#

Greens are characterized as maybe a but cowardly as well, they prefer to manipulate rather than directly confront.

lament sparrow
#

Ah. Thanks again. Trying a custom campaign for the first time and just trying to gather some ideas

thin mirage
#

Is Eberron's Thrane supposed to be an allegory for Germany?

zenith dust
#

No

crude blaze
#

Iirc Keith Baker himself said that none of the nations are really designed with the intent of being a stand-in for any real-world cultures.

#

There might be some cultural influences, but I don’t believe any one culture in Eberron is designed to be analogous with any real-world cultures.

fringe dagger
#

Sometimes I can imagine a Red Dragon having ||Benson’s|| voice from Regular Show. 😂

tardy hedge
#

So could an elemental such as..... lets say a Xorn, could an elemental like a Xorn become a god?

white ravine
#

Elementals and godhood are fickle things

#

Take Imix for example. Imix isnt exactly a god, but Imix is still a god-like entity

tardy hedge
#

I've never heard of Imix before.... interesting

iron saffron
#

Imix is one of the primordial elemental princes.

mystic merlin
#

Isn’t imix set to be one of the four elder elemental gods?

gray heath
#

If the elemental princes are gods, yes. (They can grant clerical spells in older versions, just like archdevils and demon princes such as Lolth.)

mystic merlin
#

The distinction between god and demon was smaller back then.

halcyon laurel
#

Do psyonics come naturally to super smart beings?

zenith dust
#

within 5e, psionics is mostly int based, but in previous editions it could manifest for charisma, wisdom, and even constitution

halcyon laurel
#

If someone has a stupid amount of intelligence do they automatically become psionics?

zenith dust
#

no

#

in fact as far as I know in most non dark-sun settings it's pretty rare

dreamy lava
#

The only major psionics settings are Athas (Dark Sun) and Sarlona (Eberron), IIRC

halcyon laurel
#

Time to add psionics to the list of groups I hate without regard to the individual

#

Shut up Dyno

#

"Oh our brains are so powerful we can just mind control people and do creepy ass shit" No, shut the F up you were trained in this shit like anyone else can

zenith dust
#

that's

#

weird, honestly

dreamy lava
#

Psionics isn't a matter of intelligence any more than a wizard's arcane magic

#

Also, Pronounceable, did you see that Dave and I both said the answer to "do smart people get it" is "no"?

zenith dust
#

in dark sun, everyone gets it, smart or not

dreamy lava
#

Psionics requires mental exercise, sure, but the monk's ki has and can be considered psionics too,

zenith dust
#

and in other settings it doesn't come just because you're smart

halcyon laurel
#

Yes, that's why I made fun of that claim

zenith dust
#

ah, guess it didn't land!

dreamy lava
#

In Eberron it's largely another form of magic

#

You tend to get it from tapping into certain planes that twist your mind a bit more, like the dreams, revelations, and plane of the dead, but overall you can earn and study it like magic

twilit lichen
#

personally i see psionics as a unique form of magic like divine and arcane

zenith dust
#

4e had it as a power source, along with martial, primal, divine, arcane... and I think there was another but maybe I'm misremembering

dreamy lava
#

I don't remember my 4e very well. never played a long campaign in that edition

zenith dust
#

played three long ones and a bunch of shorter ones

dreamy lava
#

The main thing though is whether psionics is... (what's the word) transparent to magic or if they just bounce off each other.

#

In Eberron, it's canon that they interact, and I believe in Dark Sun they do as well (because that version of dragons)

twilit lichen
#

i feel that they can interact in some form

dreamy lava
#

Again, depends on the setting. IIRC 2e's idea was that they didn't interact at all, leading to the situation where a psion could take a wizard apart.

twilit lichen
#

with how a monk is able to utilise ki in some subclasses to cast spells and the sorcerers abberant mind giving psionic spell casting i feel its very similar, just look at what the subclasses can utilise

dreamy lava
#

Yeah, 5e goes for mutual transparency by default, as they use the same system

#

Older editions didn't use the same system for magic and psionics.

twilit lichen
#

yeh

#

perhaps in future editions psionics is like ki, if u watch runesmith's vid on magic he explains it quite well as a less direct form of magic but not spellcasting exactly

stiff dune
#

The two could interact in Dark Sun At least, they had Psionically Enhanced "10th level " spells

twilit lichen
#

interesting, if so then it would mean that psionics is not under the same domain as regular spellcasting

dreamy lava
#

Whereas in Eberron they're different "branches"; 5e's unification of the two mechanically has made the world somewhat easier to handle.

#

On the other hand, it also removed the different specialisations; teleportation and constructs were easier for psionics than magic in 3.5

#

Whereas magic could heal without conditions and throw out elemental damage.

pliant fossil
#

Lore Wise, do we have famous warlocks who likes to brag about his Patron ? Not in a "servant" way but more like "I was able to get incredible powers from xxx" due to my ruse/skills/deceiving...?

Also how common for a warlock would it be to talk about his patron with random individuals ?

dreamy lava
#

Depends on the setting

#

Personally GOOlocks and fiend patrons are ones you don't brag about in proper society out of a combination of other people going WTF and a desire to be selfish and keep the patron's power.

#

Fey probably expect that you talk about them a lot.

crude blaze
#

Well, depending on the archfey too. I can imagine some Unseelie fey who would prefer to be kept under the radar a bit.

pliant fossil
#

Understood, thank you !

dreamy lava
#

Yeah, that was my personal opinion. I come from Eberron, where even the nasty fey want you to know about them

unkempt merlin
#

The nature of being a story

stuck breach
#

Your fiend patron is definitely going to want you to start a cult around them, you charismatic leader, you

valid stirrup
#

Hi, hopefully this is the right place for this question.
For the purpose of writing a characters backstory, I'd like to know if the Barbarians from High Moor (forgotten realms) are of any specific race? can't seem to find any info on that.

dreamy lava
#

Everyone in the FR is human unless otherwise specified or having a foreign name

#

(joke, in seriousness I don't know)

stuck breach
valid stirrup
#

cool, that was my inclination. thanks

runic igloo
#

There any official time dragons with names?

mystic merlin
analog oxide
mystic merlin
# valid stirrup Hi, hopefully this is the right place for this question. For the purpose of writ...

The high moor is near Najara, so it looks like it would consist of wood elves and perhaps renegade drow (from the green and dark elves who were there at the crown wars culmination), yuan-ti, and the same ethnic group of humans as occupies Amn (I can’t remember what their name is right now).

I was able to find this;
https://www.realmshelps.net/faerun/western-heartlands/west.shtml

Which also has a fun list.

Population: 1,641,600 (humans 78%, elves 7%, half-elves 4%, halflings 4%, half-orcs 3%, gnomes 2%, dwarves 1%)

runic igloo
stuck breach
#

Not as of yet

mystic merlin
#

(To my knowledge time dragons don’t “officially” exist in any edition? I haven’t found them prior to third, and the third edition was in a magazine which has legitimate but dubious authority, and that’s it)

#

In my game, The Gloaminglord, an archfey magic user, traded the name of the oldest time dragon in exchange for freeing Levistus from his icy tomb

valid stirrup
# mystic merlin The high moor is near Najara, so it looks like it would consist of wood elves an...

it seems I'm not allowed to add links...
anyway, found this from Tyrany of Dragons.
"Human barbarians also inhabit the High Moor, living mostly on its western fringes with large herds of sheep and goats, the soil being too thin and too poor for farming. They aren't Uthgardt or related to them, but they might have some distant ties to the Northlanders, as they seem to be of Illuskan stock. (...)"

mystic merlin
#

Nice, okay. More than I found, I could only do inference from related areas and from an old essay about how very much of the forgotten realms are either calishite or one of the other Amn groups, and we all imagine them wrong TashaLOL

analog oxide
#

I really need to make model of one. I think they look so cool. Painting it well would be a challenge I think

mystic merlin
analog oxide
#

Hehe that would be cool.

#

For some reason I really like it's art in that dragon mag.

mystic merlin
#

Yeah I went and bought a copy for it

spiral garden
#

There's D&D lore?

jolly rivet
#

Example: Skulk - Humans cursed/blessed by a god to be invisible, grow claws, and can only be revealed by a candle rendered from the fat of an unidentified body. Or watery reflections/10 year olds can see them

#

They have a history and everything

mystic merlin
knotty island
#

Finally

#

Lore connoisseurs

#

And not just people who glance over at the rules and make up their own worlds

mystic merlin
#

Oh no I absolutely do that TashaLOL

eager gyro
#

Any Greyhawkers here?

spiral garden
#

Why do D&D Minis cost so much cheaper than warhammer minis?

hexed plaza
spiral garden
mystic merlin
mystic merlin
# eager gyro Any Greyhawkers here?

Only intermittently. I like Greyhawk specific stuff as a contrast with Faerun but I think I’ve always preferred either the known world or to make my own world. 🙂

Presently doing basically what the olden days folk did though, with everyone’s worlds being accessible via magic, albeit not always easily or safety.

iron saffron
analog oxide
#

Ya we can talk In dnd minis if u want to discuss some models, sculpts etc 🙂

spiral garden
eager bay
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Do most of the D&D worlds assume a young-Earth style of creationism?

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I'm just thinking regarding whether humans and the other demihuman races would be directly related somehow

mystic merlin
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Faerun has recorded history that’s somewhere around twelve times longer than humans have been a species, if I remember right. Mystara is based on actual earth but five thousand years ago. Oerth doesn’t seem to care enough about this to have an opinion. Eberron… I dunno.

eager bay
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Yeah, I think for elves and dwarves were related to humans, they'd need to have significantly shorter lifespans more on par with us. Maybe 110-130 years max

eager bay
mystic merlin
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I think it’s somewhat folly to assume dnd humans are related to real humans honestly.

eager bay
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but what if they had their origins with humans on Earth? Like in Stargate

mystic merlin