building-and-recc-chat

[prime plover]

Oh beautiful. I ordered the majority of my pc on newegg but got the razer viper mini on amazon. The mouse is so good. Let that be a lesson, razer is king

[little osprey]

Laughs in logitech g502.

[prime plover]

Just looked it up. It looks kinda overly complicated imo.

[little osprey]

Its just logitech software and a mouse and weights.

[prime plover]

I mean, that's pretty much what mice are.

[little osprey]

lol. Mice

I have a mice.

My cat caught a mice.

[prime plover]

Plural of the computer mouse is mice though I'm pretty sure.

[little osprey]

I need some help

My pc takes FOREVER on this screen

Like a solid minute or two

And windows is on an nvme ssd.

And fast boot is enabled in bios

Like what do I need to do mannn

It’s really annoying

[urban trellis]

idk bro it takes me about 10 seconds on a nvme drive

[muted patio]

SOUnds like it's reading memory

IE, configuring ram every boot

XMP/DOCP on?

[urban trellis]

@little osprey

wait @muted patio how do I turn on DOCP i have xmp on

[muted patio]

DOCP is Asus name for XMP

same same

[urban trellis]

oh lol

[little osprey]

Yes it is

[urban trellis]

whats your ram speed

[little osprey]

3200

[muted patio]

Any boot lights sticking on?

[little osprey]

Uh

Idk I’ll check in a bit

I’m resetting windows rn

[little osprey]

No

[feral bobcat]

hi

🙂

guys what high end 3080 model is the best

[small osprey]

evga ftw3

imo

[little osprey]

HOF

[feral bobcat]

yeah i knew f...k the world 3 ultra

😄

[little osprey]

Well hof has the record benchmarks...

[feral bobcat]

doesnt proof anything

[little osprey]

Yeah it does

It’s the top end

[feral bobcat]

galax is part of palit

meh

[little osprey]

So

[feral bobcat]

but evga is great

especially psus & gpus

[little osprey]

Get what you want lmao

@muted patio any more advice?

On how to fix this nonsense

I don't even think Galax is north america is it?

No

[feral bobcat]

😄

[kindred meadow]

Got a question and not sure if this is in the right chat but... I had my desktop PC die last week and I've managed to secure an complete upgrade from an old AMD system (AMD 5500 based) to Intel (8700K) hoping that my hard drives are still good how much of a head ache am I going to put myself through with an Windows 10 install?

[feral bobcat]

guys 3080 ftw ultra at least needs 750w psu what wattage is recommended for 5900x

[little osprey]

Win 10 install easy

[little osprey]

70?

[feral bobcat]

my old keyboard doesnt work correctly sorry dont know why

[little osprey]

prob more than a 3700x for sure

3700x TDP is like iirc 65

105

[feral bobcat]

i dont oc

850 is enough isnt it

newegg psu calc shows 650 is enough

😄

[muted patio]

3080 needs 850W for transient spikes

[feral bobcat]

so 850 is recommended?

[little osprey]

Yes lol

[prime plover]

Just the GPU ALONE!? !? !? My power supply is 650W, and I plan on getting a 3070. I also am getting a ryzen 5 3600. What is the power consumption recommendation?

[muted patio]

No not the GPU alone

Total system power with a 3080

[prime plover]

Phewf.

650W should be fine for a founders 3070 right/

?

[feral bobcat]

no

[prime plover]

[feral bobcat]

min is 650

[prime plover]

Well this is not good.

[feral bobcat]

750 is enough

[prime plover]

At least I have the minimum though.

[feral bobcat]

you need more than 650

[prime plover]

I was actually going to go lower but I thought 650 would be a nice overkill

[muted patio]

650 is fine for 3070

[feral bobcat]

you need more power than 650 because of pressure on psu

[prime plover]

4k though? I do plan on running 4k(mostly just for the desktop not for games)

[main whale]

The 3070 is why I'm not upgrading my current PSU.

[feral bobcat]

😄

[main whale]

It's already 650w.

[feral bobcat]

4k with 3070?

[prime plover]

OOOOOH vintage racer is a mod assist. Noice.

[prime plover]

yes

[little leaf]

You dont need for than 650

4k at like 60 i assume

[prime plover]

I am hearing differing opinions, so I am going to go with the one that is cheapest which is that I am okay.

[little leaf]

More cinematic gaming

[prime plover]

Yeah my monitor is 4k 60 hz. I would never do anything more than that.

[muted patio]

no, they don't lol

650W is more than fine for 3070

[little leaf]

Ye i have a 3070 with a 9900k

[feral bobcat]

why explain plz

[little leaf]

At 2k

[hybrid nexus]

Yo guys, one quick question

[little leaf]

650 is fine

[prime plover]

No questions here.

This server is not supposed to be helpful.

[feral bobcat]

😄

[prime plover]

JK JK JK JK JK

[hybrid nexus]

lol

[muted patio]

Provided it's not a low end 650 liike a Corsair CV, EVGA N1 or Gigabyte blow up PSU

[feral bobcat]

vin, whats your system specs

[prime plover]

Erhm let me check the brand.

[muted patio]

Phanteks AMP, Tier A

[prime plover]

https://www.newegg.com/msi-mpg-a650gf-650w/p/N82E16817701011?Item=N82E16817701011

Power supply

[main whale]

I trust EVGA Supernovas.

[muted patio]

Tier A, that's a good one

[hybrid nexus]

The GPU I was gonna get has 3x8 Pin connectors but the PSU I have has only 2x8 Cables (3of them), can I use two Cables and just leave 1 8Pin hanging

[muted patio]

Not all of those are good

[prime plover]

Oh yay I did something right finally. 🤣 I tried to get a gold certified cause that sounded nice

[muted patio]

Ideally, no

Should be Ok tho

But if you only have two cables

[hybrid nexus]

Is it gonna cause Energyloss or something

[muted patio]

That means 3080

[main whale]

Mine is. But if I'm thinkin' of movin' up to 750w, I'm sure you can suggest a better EVGA PSU model.

[muted patio]

And also means it's probably not an 850W as is recommended for a 3080

[muted patio]

If you want a 750, get a phanteks Amp, fully modular, Tier A, $109

[hybrid nexus]

3080 and 850W Sir

[muted patio]

850W with only two 8 pins??

What is it

doens't sound right

Most have 4

[hybrid nexus]

No, 3 Cables, each have 2x8 Pins

[main whale]

What is it with this server? EVGA, ASUS and Gigabyte are good for parts that somehow don't fit my current build.

[muted patio]

The power supply you said only has two 8 pin cables

For an 850W, that doesn't sound right. Most 850W PSU have 4 cables

[main whale]

EVGAs are good for GPUs, but not PSUs?

[muted patio]

There are many Supernova models

[little leaf]

^

[muted patio]

Not all are good

[prime plover]

Wait the image you just posted says Model > Brand

Right?

[hybrid nexus]

I'll just leave it hanging man

[muted patio]

yes

You said, "EVGA are good for GPU but not PSU"

[little osprey]

I have supernova gt

[muted patio]

Not true, depends on the model of PSU

[sonic pasture]

im trying to get a 3070 fe and i was wondering if i can only get it online from best buy or is there another way

[muted patio]

Best Buy is the only retailer

[wise sorrel]

Never!!!!

[little osprey]

Yeah there are a tier evga power supplies

Vintage racer I need your help man

[sonic pasture]

is it possible to wait outside of the store like people do at micro center

[wise sorrel]

I'm gonna cry, trying to get these 3070s is ridiculous

[little leaf]

Not really

[muted patio]

No, they're online only

[little leaf]

Ive gotten 3 3070s and 1 3080

[feral bobcat]

ive read reviews about evga psus & most of critics think they are good

[wise sorrel]

I dont have a micro center so I have to resort to best buy in person

[muted patio]

Well, those critics haven't tested them

[wise sorrel]

@little leaf how much you want

[muted patio]

Properly, anyway

[wise sorrel]

Lol

[little leaf]

Lol

I just was buying them for friends because they cant get them

[sonic pasture]

thats nice

[little leaf]

I got one for my main pc though

[wise sorrel]

I need a white 3070 for my build

Or 3080

[feral bobcat]

you need galax or asus

[feral bobcat]

both have especial white versions

[little leaf]

Umm gigabyte

[wise sorrel]

I just need a gpu to start

[sonic pasture]

same

[wise sorrel]

I've been told to do strix over giga

[little osprey]

Good deal https://www.newegg.com/msi-radeon-rx-6900-xt-rx-6900-xt-16g/p/N82E16814137618?Item=9SIARA8DVW1998&Source=socialshare&cm_mmc=snc-social-_-sr-_-9SIARA8DVW1998-_-02182021

[little leaf]

Ok wait wait

[wise sorrel]

For white

[little leaf]

Stop

Whats the budget

Or what card and cpi

[wise sorrel]

Me?

[little leaf]

Yes

[wise sorrel]

Ryzen 7 5800

[uncut pelican]

Free shipping from China!

[little leaf]

K so anything would be fine

[little osprey]

How much does a Brahman heifer cost

[little leaf]

Do u have a preference for gpu?

3070 or 3080

[wise sorrel]

Or a 9 5900 if I can get 1

[little leaf]

Ok so 3080

[wise sorrel]

And nah either or

[little leaf]

Cause it looks like you have alot of money to apend lol

[wise sorrel]

Nah, I have a decent chunk but still a budget

[little leaf]

Whats budget overall

Or send pcpp

[wise sorrel]

1 sec

The psu isn't white cause A.) Can't find 1, and B.) There is a shroud over it.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Q64cPV

Forgot the cooler

@little leaf

[little leaf]

your really getting an aio

and a 970 plus

[wise sorrel]

Is that an issue?

[prime plover]

Is newegg shuffle happening now?

It was supposed to start 3 minutes ago I think.

[wise sorrel]

@prime plover don't see it yet

[little leaf]

No its just generally I don't recommend aios

[wise sorrel]

Whys that? @little leaf

[feral bobcat]

noctua

[little leaf]

Since they are usually overpriced and have the same perf as an good air cooler

[prime plover]

I bought a noctua fan. They looked quality. Are they?

[wise sorrel]

What air cooler would you use?

[little leaf]

also the 2tb ssd is quite expensive

yes noctua is good

[feral bobcat]

buy 2tb ssd

[wise sorrel]

Yeah, but i rather have the speed. Its is 2tb ssd

[feral bobcat]

you need space for next gen games & movies

[little leaf]

I would choose something else

[wise sorrel]

Like?

[potent portal]

Is there no shuffle today for some reason? It's 10 but it still says yesterday's shuffle

[wise sorrel]

It's 1:07 here and nothing

[prime plover]

I got 1tb ssd. Ssd is expensive.

[austere herald]

hi all

just woundering does any one know were i can find either a 5700 or a 6800 i would prefer asus or sapphire but at this point any thing but asrock lol i cant find them any were ...every thing is out of stock

[prime plover]

The best place to get a gpu is from newegg. https://www.newegg.com/product-shuffle
Newegg shuffle is basically where they display the gpu's they have in stock and everyone has an equal chance of buying it.

[potent portal]

Newegg is only offering them on the shuffle

[prime plover]

The shuffle was supposed to start 8 minutes ago if I am not mistaken. But it hasn't.

[austere herald]

im on NE now and its hair pulling

[prime plover]

Why?

[austere herald]

out of stock .....

[prime plover]

Try and find a gpu that is in stock.

GPU's have become so rare and valuable nowadays.

[austere herald]

https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007709 601359511 601341484

tell me about it

[junior mural]

My computer turned purple screen and shut off what happened?

Dell optiplex

[prime plover]

Im guessing something went wrong.

It's probably not good.

[feral bobcat]

guys what gaming monitor has the best color quality like apple

[hollow lily]

Do I have to use an sfx psu for an 011 dynamic mini?

[young birch]

what color combos should i try with my pc

[young birch]

just one that fits

[wise sorrel]

Whats a good supplemental video card I can use until these gpus drop in price or become more available?

@young birch white... but have fun getting parts 😭

[young birch]

i ment the one i have now. check #build-pics

[fossil atlas]

anyone know what kind of stuff i should have if i want to make gaming yt vids?

[potent portal]

A good nvidia GPU, a capture card, and a good microphone if you want to do voice (preferably with soundproofing)

[fossil atlas]

my graphics card is an RTX 2060, i already tried recording and editing, but my pc still lags, i suspect that my processor may be the weak link, its an intel i5 8400

[patent wraith]

this is what i have is it good?

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/HBR7gt

ping me with answer

[potent portal]

Probably, that doesn't even have hyperthreading so just 6 threads

A capture card would help take the strain off the CPU

[fossil atlas]

should I also invest into an SSD?

[potent portal]

Definitely. The answer to that is always yes.

It can turn a 5 minute boot up into a 30 second boot up

[fossil atlas]

thanks for the help g

[wanton cliff]

very yes

always

you would be a fool not to in this time

[fossil atlas]

should i have an ssd and a regular hard drive or just a big tanky ssd

[wanton cliff]

its alright

pretty well rounded

[wanton cliff]

https://tenor.com/view/the-road-to-el-dorado-both-both-is-good-gif-8304204

[fossil atlas]

tanky ssd and hard drive ok

[wanton cliff]

yes

I have 2tb in NVME and a 4tb HDD

its nice

[fossil atlas]

thanks for advice

[wanton cliff]

HDD is mostly used for cold storage tho

helps since its external

so its mostly pictures and stuff, with the odd COD Warzone and Cyberpunk on there as well

[fossil atlas]

couldnt i just keep all of my stuff on a 2 tb ssd?

[wanton cliff]

yeah

those are expensive tho

$200 minimum

[fossil atlas]

alright

[uncut pelican]

What cpus noctua nh l9i compatible with

[small osprey]

g o o g l e

[desert gulch]

yeah in the specs of it it should say supported sockets

[stoic island]

@uncut pelican Noctua has its own compatibility site thing

[uncut pelican]

yeah i found out

[brittle tinsel]

what socket is a i5-4570s and what is a good speed ddr3 to combine with it

[muted patio]

LGA 1150

[stoic island]

It's lga 1150, ddr3 1600 should be good

[brittle tinsel]

would there happen to be any 1150 motherboards still available? the one my brother has only has 2 ram slots and 2 sata ports, we are looking to upgrade his ram, but 2 slots are fine, just seeing if there is anything dual channel mainly we need more sata ports

[stoic island]

2 ram slots should be dual channel?

[brittle tinsel]

intel h61

sorry

intel h81 gaming

[muted patio]

Is it MATX or ITX or something?

[potent portal]

Here's a refurb
https://www.newegg.com/p/1JW-001M-002D4

[brittle tinsel]

m-atx

[muted patio]

Ah

[brittle tinsel]

but the case is pretty big

[muted patio]

Does it have standoffs below the motherboard?

[brittle tinsel]

so we could fit upto an atx I believe

[muted patio]

Or holes for them labeled ATX

[brittle tinsel]

Let me go check, its in my brothers room

[muted patio]

big case doesn't always mean ATX will fit

[potent portal]

Micro if not
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813132163

[stoic island]

Okay I just spent the last 5 minutes figuring out what the hell the h61 was lol

[muted patio]

They're trying to get more ram slots

Just FYI

[potent portal]

Ah I see

[muted patio]

Yeah, more ram and SATA slots

That refurb lookin hot tho if it will fit

ALthough

[gusty abyss]

maybe find a z97 board

[muted patio]

I mean

[potent portal]

4 slots micro
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813128607?&quicklink=true

[muted patio]

Depending on the Mobo and ram cost, maybe a 10100 and B460 with new ram would be worth it lol

Cuz it'll run around that 4570

[potent portal]

Oh yeah that would definitely blow an old chip away

[gusty nova]

Anybody see any issues with parts compatibility with this build? Never built a computer before

[muted patio]

yeah, you need a bare minimum of 3200 ram

[potent portal]

Should work but faster RAM would be good

[muted patio]

3600 ideally

[potent portal]

Hyper 212
pls no

[muted patio]

and get an ID Cooling SSE224XT

$30 and better cooling

and all black

https://www.amazon.com/ID-COOLING-SE-224-XT-Cooler-Heatpipes-Cooling/dp/B082V7TCSB

ah crap, out of stock

of course -_-

[atomic geyser]

ouch

gotta had that

[muted patio]

but yeah, 212 is oof

[gusty abyss]

212 is fine?

like it works

[muted patio]

Not for $45 it's not

hecka waste of money

[gusty nova]

needs more than 16 Gigs of RAM?

[muted patio]

Gammax 400 then

[muted patio]

needs FASTER ram

3200 mhz or 3600 mhz

[atomic geyser]

im trying to find a good priced ryzen 5 5600x in canada but its IMPOSSIBLE

[gusty abyss]

oh I just assume the 212 variants are always on sale for 35 lol

y'all get really dramatic about them though

[muted patio]

I mean, this is $22 for the same thing

https://www.amazon.com/DEEPCOOL-GAMMAXX-400-Blue-Compatible/dp/B00JQ2YDCY

If not better

More heatpipes

Cuz the 212 is overpriced for what it is. Way overpriced

ID cooling is cheaper and cools a lot better

[brittle tinsel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/544632208510550026/812072782556299314/image0.jpg

[gusty abyss]

that's...the same number of heat pipes

[atomic geyser]

oh nice

[brittle tinsel]

wtf why is the light so bright like that? it wasnt on the phone

[muted patio]

Nay

212 has 4

[hollow grail]

Whenever part gets iconic it becomes bad value

[gusty abyss]

and so does what you linked

[muted patio]

Crap, gammax does have 4 lol

[gusty abyss]

you goober

[muted patio]

Still, it cools better believe it or not lol

[brittle tinsel]

vintage if you look at it with your phone its a bit more clear, maybe you can tell if it can accommodate more than a M-atx

[gusty abyss]

yeah but you guys act like someone shot a puppy when they paid $5 more than necessary for a cheap tower cooler

[muted patio]

Cuz the 212 sucks

[stoic island]

some fun charts :)

[muted patio]

wait what

Better than the u12 also?

[stoic island]

(it is louder than u12s, that's a thing to think about)

[muted patio]

Yeah but

whoa

I didn't know it was THAT good

[stoic island]

:)

[muted patio]

I like the look of the SSE224 better tho

That blue fan is meh LOL

[stoic island]

Value at 50% fan speed even considering sound

[hollow grail]

i wonder what if gammax and noctua fan

[muted patio]

Damn son, I'm bookmarking those

[stoic island]

lol

"Keeping in mind that the System Builder Marathon always ends in a value competition, Deepcool's $30 Gammaxx 400 is the cooler I'd choose for value. In fact, I plan to use one in my next build. It might not be the cooler I'd always choose, but it is the one I'd choose most often, and that makes it the first low-cost part to earn the respect of an Editor's Choice award."

do keep in mind that is like 4 years old charts

so no se-224-xt comparisons

[muted patio]

WHOA

They even have an all white one for $40

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/CbmxFT/deepcool-gammaxx-400-white-743-cfm-cpu-cooler-gammaxx-400-white

[stoic island]

yea

@muted patio I like the look of the gammaxx 400 v2's blue fan better, and that's generally just like 25$ too

[muted patio]

It is yeah

https://www.amazon.com/DEEP-COOL-GAMMAXX400V2-GAMMAXX-400/dp/B085G8WJCC.

[brittle tinsel]

does newegg not have 1150 mobos?

[muted patio]

Those have been out of production for years TBH

Only thing you'll find is used or refurb

[brittle tinsel]

like damn didnt realize it was this hard to upgrade a mobo without needing to upgrade cpu and everything else

im fine with that if i can find em

[muted patio]

Well, when dealing with older components, it's always a PITA

[brittle tinsel]

PITA?

[muted patio]

Pain In The Ass

[brittle tinsel]

put in take away?

[muted patio]

Also

[brittle tinsel]

ah

[little osprey]

I need good air cooler suggestions

[brittle tinsel]

lmfao

[muted patio]

That's an 8 year old CPU

[little osprey]

my aio dead ig xd

[muted patio]

Just FYI

[brittle tinsel]

I know

[muted patio]

Cooler for what cpu?

[prime plover]

Was there not a shuffle today?

[little osprey]

9600k

[little osprey]

nope

[muted patio]

https://www.amazon.com/DEEP-COOL-GAMMAXX400V2-GAMMAXX-400/dp/B085G8WJCC

[earnest olive]

you shouldn't be expecting retailers to carry so much stock for 8 year old pc parts

[muted patio]

Reposting because yeah lol

[earnest olive]

8 years is a very long time in pc years

[little osprey]

isn't it so cheap ? 🤔

[small osprey]

wait it beats the u12s????

[muted patio]

That's what I said

[small osprey]

what the heck

[brittle tinsel]

Im well away of what I have, it was only a $500 prebuilt for black friday last year, and he (my brother) can play majority of what he throws at it. except for dayz and tarkov because he only has 8gb ram and it can with amd installed (no amd products in it) and its taking 60% ram (amd + windows defender)

[earnest olive]

it's like asking why retailers aren't carrying spare parts for cars from the 1970s

[little osprey]

my aio having trouble so I wanna join to air cooling gang lol xd

[gusty abyss]

lol tarkov

I started playing that recently, that game chows down everything

[brittle tinsel]

its way easier to get car parts from the 70s vs an 8 year old cpu mobo, like i said, used/refurbished is 100% fine, aslong as its available

[small osprey]

which aio did you have?

[muted patio]

Just help the guy find parts 😉

[gusty nova]

what would you suggest?

[muted patio]

Were you gonna send that pic or ???

[little osprey]

coolermaster ml240 xd

[brittle tinsel]

I did awhile ago but here

[small osprey]

oh that should be good, idk why that would fail

[little osprey]

its just 3-4 moths old but

[brittle tinsel]

damn iphone has a 20mb photo ffs

[muted patio]

That wasn't to you lol

[brittle tinsel]

give it a sec

ah

[muted patio]

XD

[little osprey]

it stopped randomly

making me worry

[muted patio]

https://www.amazon.com/DEEP-COOL-GAMMAXX400V2-GAMMAXX-400/dp/B085G8WJCC

that one

[little osprey]

its so cheap lol is it really enough ? 🤔

[muted patio]

Uh yeah

[brittle tinsel]

and done finally

[little osprey]

i not overclocking anyways

[muted patio]

beats a Noctua lol

[little osprey]

damn xd

[small osprey]

thats actually crazy

[brittle tinsel]

I think its big enough for atx but im not sure

[muted patio]

It's hard to tell, would you have a case brand and model by chance?

[brittle tinsel]

its unmarked

...

[muted patio]

I'm gonna DL pic and zoom in

BRB

[little osprey]

why would that aio stop randomly 🤔

[brittle tinsel]

if you use your phone on discord to look, the blue light isnt sooo bright

[muted patio]

here's the deal, do you still have the standoffs that came with the case? Yo usaid prebuilt tho

It has holes for the standoffs but I only see one installed

SO if you have standoffs, can def go ATX

[brittle tinsel]

can you buy standoffs or do they come with a mobo? because this didnt come with any extras

[little osprey]

yeah case looks like it can take ATX

[muted patio]

Hmmm, brb

[little osprey]

they coming with case usually but

[muted patio]

They're brass but $5

https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Brass-Motherboard-Standoffs-Computer/dp/B00213KL5I/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=motherboard+standoffs&qid=1613684855&s=electronics&sr=1-2

[brittle tinsel]

oh btw heads up for anyone if you buy a prebuilt DO NOT go with lyte technology, they are ass

its work

he isnt worried about looks

[little osprey]

we're pro users lol building ourselves

[muted patio]

SO go with these and the refurb mobo Fal Cie linked https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Brass-Motherboard-Standoffs-Computer/dp/B00213KL5I/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=motherboard+standoffs&qid=1613684855&s=electronics&sr=1-2

This one https://www.newegg.com/p/1JW-001M-002D4

[earnest olive]

$90?!

[muted patio]

I mean, it's either that or Ebay

[earnest olive]

for a refurb B85

that's more expensive than brand new B460

[little osprey]

crazy

[earnest olive]

[brittle tinsel]

Im building my next one, but for $500 to start, ive had mine 3 going on 4 years but I think I ran it to hot streaming 12 hours of tarkov a few times, cause the clock speed of the cpu is terrible, and I can barely play games I used to get 140 FPS in, so rip

[brittle tinsel]

Ill take a look bro, thaanks for hte help

[potent portal]

Well yeah but it's ancient tech at this point

If they really need to stick to 1150 socket

[brittle tinsel]

yeah but we cant afford to put a new cpu in em

[earnest olive]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/FOR-Gigabyte-Z97-HD3-1150-DDR3-Z97-Board-Overclocking-Motherboard-Tested/264468265461?hash=item3d938979f5:g:HukAAOSwFK1ffs5k

same price Z97

[little osprey]

can aio fail couse of power issue ? 🤔

[muted patio]

Yes

[hollow grail]

i like startek

[muted patio]

Or motor burned up

Or air bubble got stuck and over heated motor

Or pump rotor oofed and is stuck

any number of issues

[gusty abyss]

broad category of "pump died"

[muted patio]

Yep

Without a tear down and electrical test, it's a guessing game

[wanton cliff]

huh

[earnest olive]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Applicable-Biostar-B85MG-computer-motherboard-1150-pin-support-4950-seconds-B85/303642030469?hash=item46b279b185:g:JYwAAOSwQ9xca7Sh

much cheaper B85

[muted patio]

They want 4 ram slots

To use what they have now plus more ram

[earnest olive]

that $90 Z97 board has 4 ram slots

[brittle tinsel]

anyone ever here of this brand ram? is it any good?
https://www.amazon.com/Patriot-1600MHz-Desktop-Memory-Heatsink/dp/B008LTJJJ0/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAvbiBBhD-ARIsAGM48bzuDjIDZgldr2x0a7EeufAK4bEO9xqp7sBS4Zh42nyAtWEV1icVYfsaAoneEALw_wcB&hvadid=241951209110&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9011450&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=12764254391007725996&hvtargid=kwd-13632894927&hydadcr=24661_10400819&keywords=ddr3+1600+16gb&qid=1613685161&sr=8-3&tag=googhydr-20

[muted patio]

it's fine

patriot is fine

[brittle tinsel]

sweet

thanks fellas

[muted patio]

-_-

[brittle tinsel]

I wish

[earnest olive]

if you are gonna spend $90 on a board

[muted patio]

https://tenor.com/view/bonk-gif-18805247

[brittle tinsel]

actually 1 last question

[earnest olive]

you should go for that Z97 board

what cpu do you have?

[brittle tinsel]

dude we cant afford to upgrade the cpu

[little osprey]

ok problem is , it actually working right now but 3 days ago my pc started freezing and checked temps and seen my cpu is about 90C . I turned it off and checked it . pump was so hot . I cleared and reinstalled it and it worked but when listening it too close theres some noise coming from pump. it did same thing today but it worked when i reset pc xd idk whats wrong but i think I need new cooler already lol

[brittle tinsel]

i5-4570s

[earnest olive]

Z97 is compatible with the same CPUs that B85 is

[muted patio]

I5 4570s

[earnest olive]

and you could drop a 4790K in it later and OC it

[brittle tinsel]

you have a link, ill check it out

[earnest olive]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/FOR-Gigabyte-Z97-HD3-1150-DDR3-Z97-Board-Overclocking-Motherboard-Tested/264468265461?hash=item3d938979f5:g:HukAAOSwFK1ffs5k

gigabyte website lists i5-4570s as a supported cpu

it's the same price

for a better feature board

[brittle tinsel]

anyway last question is will 2 different brands of ram and possible different speeds be bad? or with it work?

[earnest olive]

works

not optimal but works

[muted patio]

It'll run at the slowest ram speed installed

and slowest timings of the sticks

[brittle tinsel]

how would I see what the speed of the installed ram is?

[earnest olive]

easiest way

task manager

performance tab

memory tab

[potent portal]

Or CPU-Z which will give a lot more details

[brittle tinsel]

the speed he has is already 1600

[earnest olive]

yeah but for just the speed that's easier than downloading software

don't spend $90 on a B85 board at least get Z97 for the same price

[brittle tinsel]

?? I meant like if we go with the ram I linked

[earnest olive]

they should both run at 1600

[junior mural]

Why is my pc green

[muted patio]

that's usually a video card issue

[junior mural]

uh

Whats wrong with it theb

[potent portal]

Wow I've never seen it that bad

[muted patio]

IDK, restart?

[earnest olive]

with Z97 board you may be able to overclock the ram higher than 1600

B85 board cannot overclock ram

[junior mural]

Do I switch off my pc?

[potent portal]

Yes zeke

[muted patio]

Yes

Use the reset button

[earnest olive]

going Z97 will allow you to squeeze much more life out of the old platform

[junior mural]

Its been recently turning on and off

the display

Audio ways worked

What is wrong with it theb

Then?

[earnest olive]

if you were to later drop $80 or so on a 4770K the Z97 board would allow you to overclock it

combined with overclocked ddr3

it'll live longer

[brittle tinsel]

we all plan on building 3900x 3080 builds but because of stock issues and money (4 brothers total) it gets really pricey

[earnest olive]

3900x?

is it for gaming?

[junior mural]

Like idk whats wrong with it

[earnest olive]

don't buy a 3900x for gaming

[brittle tinsel]

but I appreciate your help vintage and cooling fanboy

[earnest olive]

3900x is a really bad choice for pure gaming

if you do non gaming tasks it is good

[junior mural]

Its also been like turing black for a few seconds then turning back on

[brittle tinsel]

I do alot, like alot alot of btoh

btihy

both***

[earnest olive]

ah

yeah it's a respectable choice then

i just see a lot of people go O_O big number ryzen 9 and buy a product that doesn't make sense for their use case

so just checking

[brittle tinsel]

my buddy has a 3900x and he gets high fps and hasnt really gona above 10-20% usages

[muted patio]

most likely the GPU is crashing then

[earnest olive]

yeah it's just that 3900x isn't really better than a 3700x in any game

and only better than a 3600 in very few games

[muted patio]

Could be power supply issue but most likely GPU

[earnest olive]

aka cyberpunk

[junior mural]

Idk

[earnest olive]

so a 5600x or 10700 would generally be a better choice for pure gaming

but a 3900x will game pretty well while having the multicore power for non gaming tasks

[brittle tinsel]

when I have the money, if a 5900x is availble Ill spend the extra $100 but I dont think it will be available when I have the money, so theres that

[earnest olive]

5600x and 5800x are already getting pretty easy to find

[brittle tinsel]

and quite honestly, I do script compiling while gaming with my brothers and buddy, well used to before my current cpu just slowed way way down all of a sudden so the multi tasking support will help alot

[earnest olive]

hopefully 5900x will follow suit

[junior mural]

@muted patio

[muted patio]

Fan failure, CPU fan?

[brittle tinsel]

I know a guy out of Washington state that uses a 3900x to play with 4 monitors ( 2 of which are ulta wide 4k) and he has no probs gaming

[muted patio]

System fan?

What fan isn't spinning?

[earnest olive]

i'm not saying that the 3900x is a bad gaming chip or has problems gaming

[muted patio]

That is GPU, not CPU

[brittle tinsel]

well yeah but cpu handles some of the work right? after all it is the centra processing unit

[junior mural]

The fan iis spinning

Isk

[earnest olive]

it's just not better enough than the 3600/3700x at gaming and worse than other chips that are cheaper

[muted patio]

Display is mainly done by GPU

UNless 1080p super high FPS, 250+

[earnest olive]

so it doesn't make sense to buy for pure gaming

[brittle tinsel]

wait, so is my gpu sh*ting the bed?

[earnest olive]

i'm just checking you aren't wasting money lol

[muted patio]

no?

[earnest olive]

what gpu? your i5-4570s is probably the limiting factor if you're running compiles during games

[brittle tinsel]

because when my clocks dropped, I cant play games above 720p 4:3 resolution with good fps

[muted patio]

At some point, a fan stopped spinning if you got that error. keep an eye on them

[brittle tinsel]

1060 3gb

[junior mural]

Ok

[earnest olive]

yeah it's your cpu for sure

[brittle tinsel]

the 1060 3gb will be used as a temp gpu until I get a 30 series but I predict they wont be available until late 2021

let me say, its hard to get out of plat in siege at 720 4:3

[earnest olive]

it's a power constrained 4 thread cpu on an 8 year old architecture

[gusty abyss]

your bud's 3900x is literally like 6x the processing power

[brittle tinsel]

yeah, figured it was

[earnest olive]

only 6x?

no way

[brittle tinsel]

I wonder why the clocks dropped sooo fast

[gusty abyss]

starting purely on core count 🤣

[earnest olive]

ok actually it's less difference than i expected

like 7x

[brittle tinsel]

wait that says 2.9ghz

my task manager says im running 3.5

[gusty abyss]

that's the base clock

cpus boost higher or lower depending on what they're doing

[brittle tinsel]

I didnt even realized my prebuilt was overclocked

[earnest olive]

it's not

[brittle tinsel]

wait so its not?

[earnest olive]

that's just normal boosting behavior

your cpu is not capable of overclocking

[brittle tinsel]

oh thank god

[earnest olive]

also please stop cursing

[gusty abyss]

intel cpus don't oc unless they have a k at the end

[brittle tinsel]

thought I could have saved a few years on this thing, its definatle ready for a upgrade ( complete new build in my case ) given if they ever give us that $2000 stimulus

[earnest olive]

i mean the i5-4570s is definitely in the grave already

but LGA1150 not quite yet

[brittle tinsel]

I noticed the speeds of my cpu fall off when I did a tarkov 12 hour stream and all of a sudden like 11 hours in and the computer shut down and wouldnt power back on till the next morning

[earnest olive]

i7-4790K @ 5GHz with some 2400MHz DDR3 can still get work done

mostly because cpu progress was so stagnant for so long

[brittle tinsel]

yeah, well anyways im off, so you guys have a good day and thank you soo much for your help and helpful advice

[earnest olive]

[gusty abyss]

I was on a 4590 until a few months ago, the gen can still game but it was def showing its age

[muted patio]

I went from that to a 3700x

[gusty abyss]

same LOL

[little osprey]

With liquid cooling, how much fans should a gaming pc have?

[gusty abyss]

depends on the setup of your case

[odd moth]

i5-10600k with gtx1060 or Ryzen 5 3600 w/ gtx 1050 super?

[gusty abyss]

isn't that first pair just objectively better?

[odd moth]

no wrong gpus nvm lol

[gusty abyss]

lol

[odd moth]

i5 and gtx 1660 super

[velvet oxide]

Hi i'm relatively new to all this and can use some help. so i'm trying to make a new pc reusing some of the more pricey parts from my current build being (intel i7 7700, nvidia 2070 super, and my current ram) don't really know where to look for a reletivly stable mother board that also has wifi and all that

was wondering if anyone had any reccomendations

[small osprey]

you should upgrade that 7700 first

before making any changes

[marble cove]

xd

[small osprey]

@velvet oxide upgrade the 7700 first, then you can upgrade other stuff like psu and whatnot

[velvet oxide]

can't at the moment as that 7700 is the max of what my current MB will work with

[small osprey]

as in

upgrade your cpu and mobo

duh

[small osprey]

are you near a microcenter?

[velvet oxide]

nope

im limited to the internet

[small osprey]

hm i would say, get a 10600k and a decent z490 mobo

what’s your budget for upgrades? @velvet oxide

[velvet oxide]

at the moment about 700

[small osprey]

ok ill make a list without gpu rq

[velvet oxide]

all in all im planning on a larger atx case solid state added on to my HD compatible with my vr and AIO cooling system

[small osprey]

@velvet oxide https://pcpartpicker.com/list/R2DPLP

you can remove some stuff, as its $100 over budget

[velvet oxide]

so what makes the i5-10600k better

[small osprey]

basically everything lol

[mental steeple]

lol wtf

[ripe wedge]

I mean its dramless

[mental steeple]

And?

That makes it hot garbage?

[ripe wedge]

and for price to perf its still not worth it

[mental steeple]

Yep, at that price point it isn't good.

But it's far from hot garbage.

[ripe wedge]

yeah

its better than other dramless nvme drives

but like

still not great

[mental steeple]

Most dramless NVME drives are pretty solid.

Save for the realkek ones

Most of them are better for consoomers than buying AHCI+dram drives for the same or more money.

not sure where this idea comes from that all dramless ssds are complete poop

[ripe wedge]

I mean they are fine for secondary drives but the os really needs that cache

[mental steeple]

It's pretty simple, the performance benefits of the NVME storage protocol outweigh the performance loss of having a dedicated dram cache.

[mental steeple]

How does an OS need a dram cache?

I've seen this said so many times but there's never a reason given.

Sure you can have some extra prefetch data for the OS stored in there?

But that's fine to be stored in SRAM or HMB? The latency increase if anything would be less important for an OS

[ripe wedge]

endurance and performance will suffer

[mental steeple]

Endurance won't suffer by a margin that matters at all.

Performance won't suffer because you're not going to notice the extra latency of prefetch data being stored in HMB on your OS

Even pulling directly from nand won't be very noticeable with your OS's general responsiveness.

[ripe wedge]

I guess

moving large files to and from it im sure wouldnt be great either

[mental steeple]

How does a dram cache have anything to do with moving large files?

The main benefit of the dram cache is benefiting small IO performance.

Which is the opposite of moving large files.

[ripe wedge]

oh ok well I thought wrong then

[mental steeple]

⭐

If you took a controller and slapped a dram cache on it it'd be better than its dramless counterpart

Doesn't make the dramless counterpart hot garbo

especially if it undercuts it reasonably

[ripe wedge]

yeah

but again for the price of a sn550 there will usually be a better option for a few bucks more

[little osprey]

sx8200pro 512GB- 60 usd

[wanton cliff]

no

[little osprey]

why

[wanton cliff]

adata = no

heat

lifespan

[little osprey]

[wanton cliff]

and other things

[little osprey]

wut

are we generalizing a products performance because of its brand..?

[wanton cliff]

no

[little osprey]

yes

thats what u did

[wanton cliff]

adata RAM and SSDs are bad

especially SSDs

[little osprey]

ur doing it again

[wanton cliff]

I cant speak for their other products but I have had that SSD and XPG RAM before

the heat and lifespan on both sucks ass

[little osprey]

ur generalizing a whole brand based off two products sir

[potent portal]

If the boot fits, wear it.
I've yet to see any ADATA SSD that's more than subpar

[wanton cliff]

A: not sir
B: I said "adata" in relation to their SSDs, because that is what we were talking about

dont confuse my words

[mental steeple]

lol schrodingers nand

[little osprey]

dont use inappropriate words sir

[mental steeple]

all ssds are made of the same junk oem parts

💃

SX8200 pro rn is worse than pilot-E and MP34

but is still like 970 evo level

[little osprey]

rn
inb4 another controller change

[mental steeple]

the controller change wasnt even the problem with it

lol

[little osprey]

nand

blah blah all that

[mental steeple]

SM2262G vs SM2262EN i 😴

[potent portal]

That would be what, the 5th change? and only one was halfway decent?

[wanton cliff]

SX8200? maybe im thinking of the 8100... either way, ive heard a lot of bad things about the 8200 as well

[mental steeple]

all of the sx8200 pro iterations are decent

it's just that the original iteration was ridiculously good.

and thus all of the iterations look poop

[little osprey]

pilot-e and mp34 are 5 usd more than sx 8200pro

[mental steeple]

as in the original SX8200 pro had better random performance than the SK hynix p31 gold

[little osprey]

helix-L also 5 usd cheaper

[mental steeple]

bro

[little osprey]

[mental steeple]

just buy uuhhh

intel optane 905p

[wanton cliff]

yeah

agreed

[deft walrus]

hi guys im trying to buy a used "gamer" PC and was wanting to know if you guys could help me with offering the right price incase i may want to purchase

[little osprey]

[mental steeple]

get the pcie one

[little osprey]

its 2k sir

[mental steeple]

ok and?

[mental steeple]

are you too impoverished to buy such an ssd?

[little osprey]

yes

precisely

[mental steeple]

lol the fan do be backwards

[wanton cliff]

#build-pics

[little osprey]

intake fan..

in exhaust..?

@mental steeple am being fr rn is sx8200pro gud for 60 usd ?

[mental steeple]

eh

500gb nvmes in general i 😴

[potent portal]

What are the specs? I see a meshify C case which is good, but...

[little osprey]

its 512

[mental steeple]

buy 1tb helix-L for $33 more

double storage

inb4 "no cache"

le epic no cache mem

[deft walrus]

this is all theyve given me so far

[potent portal]

6600K 🤣

[wanton cliff]

oof

[little osprey]

@mental steeple i payed 105 usd for my p1 1tb

was year ago

[deft walrus]

i have an i5 but its a 10300h

[wanton cliff]

I like the 10300h

its in my laptop

[deft walrus]

yup

[wanton cliff]

good cpu

[potent portal]

Your 10300h is better than that 6600k

[deft walrus]

im also got a 1660 ti for lappy

[wanton cliff]

I have a 1650Ti for lappy

[deft walrus]

i know but im trying to also get a desktop

i can always upgrade the cpu i suppose

[little osprey]

why use sand paper for lapping when u can just use a brick

[potent portal]

With Intel you'll need to upgrade the motherboard to upgrade the CPU

[deft walrus]

ok

damnit

hmmm

[potent portal]

You could put a 6900k in there but... that's only a few % better

[wanton cliff]

id just get a... what socket does the 10300h use?

[potent portal]

lga 1200

Oh the h

[wanton cliff]

z490 then?

that uses 1200, right?

[potent portal]

Yes

The mobile socket number is FCBGA1440

[deft walrus]

well what would that computer be worth anyways more less

[potent portal]

"BGA" meaning soldered to the board btw

That computer isn't worth much more than the 1650 super alone

[deft walrus]

if we had to guess

damn ok

[potent portal]

Maybe if it had good storage but I doubt that on a 5 year old computer

[brittle tinsel]

Hey, me and my brothers all have 1 Ethernet port but would like to be able to not only hook up to the internet but also run lan to our computers for low latency lan games any ideas

[wanton cliff]

ethernet switch

[hollow grail]

sx8200 pro is good for the trash

[wanton cliff]

netgear sells them for... $100 I think? maybe $80?

[hollow grail]

lol no

tp link 8 port gigabit switch for like $30

[wanton cliff]

huh

even cheaper

I must be having memory issues today

[hollow grail]

switches are that price generally for unmanaged gigabit

[wanton cliff]

I remember seeing one for $80 on wegg or something like that

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hollow grail]

maybe managed

or just bad deal

[wanton cliff]

maybe

it was probs managed

8 ports

gigabit

[brittle tinsel]

But would that allow lan with simultaneous network usage?

[hollow grail]

yes

[wanton cliff]

yeah

[brittle tinsel]

None. Are WiFi enables

[wanton cliff]

you can plug a modem into it

[potent portal]

I got a 5 port dumb netgear switch for $5 from a Staples that was closing near me

[wanton cliff]

router i mean

not modem

[hollow grail]

https://www.newegg.com/tp-link-tl-sg108-8-x-rj45/p/N82E16833704173

i used to use these for lab

[brittle tinsel]

Wait so we would split a router? There is 4 of us 2 on router 1 and 2 on router 2

[hollow grail]

until i switched entirely to unifi

[wanton cliff]

you can plug the switch into the router, it gives everyone connected to the switch both internet and LAN access

[brittle tinsel]

Yeah, but how would that work if there are 2 different routers?

[wanton cliff]

wdym

just plug 1 router in

ez

[hollow grail]

^^^^^^^

[brittle tinsel]

We don’t live in the city, there isn’t enough bandwidth for us all to use 1

[hollow grail]

what

[brittle tinsel]

That’s why we had to add a second

[hollow grail]

thats not how like

that works

[wanton cliff]

yeah...

[hollow grail]

unless you have 2 internet plans

for some reason

[wanton cliff]

thatd be weird

[brittle tinsel]

It’s 2 plans

[ripe wedge]

they made it worse now

[wanton cliff]

why dont you, like, get a mesh network or something?

[brittle tinsel]

Mesh?

[wanton cliff]

yeah

like Eero or whatever

[hollow grail]

so you have 2 different isp?

[brittle tinsel]

Never heard

[hollow grail]

eero is for losers

amplifi only

[little osprey]

that happened like 5 times

[brittle tinsel]

No we only have 1 isp in area but have 2 separate lines or plans added to household

[wanton cliff]

sure, I was just listing an example

first thing that came to mind

[hollow grail]

that is not how that works

if they can deliver the bandwidth to you on 2 plans they can deliver it on one

[wanton cliff]

you are getting extorted

paying twice as much

[hollow grail]

lol

actually im gonna shut up

and just let whoever bamboozled them into getting 2 internet plans make hella commission

[wanton cliff]

heh

they probs getting promoted

[brittle tinsel]

50mbs down is max speed according to them but we are lucky to get 20 down

[hollow grail]

like look if you can trick ppl into doing it then

pog to you

[brittle tinsel]

When we move we will have access to multiple providers and gig speeds but that’s a bit away

[wanton cliff]

u sure you have a good enough modem for that

also who is your ISP?

[hollow grail]

guessing comcast

[brittle tinsel]

It’s dsl and all they will allow us to use is their router modem combo

[potent portal]

This whole thing screams scam

[brittle tinsel]

Windstream

Only one avail in area

[hollow grail]

oh lol

[muted patio]

Uh, that sounds like garbage

[wanton cliff]

whoever you contacted for internet got hella promoted

[muted patio]

You can use your own DSL modem

[hollow grail]

im letting the rep make bank

[muted patio]

Yo just won't get support for it

[hollow grail]

probs not

a lot of bad isp will whitelist their hardware only

[muted patio]

Srsly?

[hollow grail]

yes

[potent portal]

DSL ones are notoriously bad

[muted patio]

I never had that issue and I've had some hillbilly providers

They SAID you couldn't but we did anyway

[hollow grail]

have u had dsl

[muted patio]

yes

Of course

[potent portal]

You'd be better off with satellite or a mobile hotspot provider

[muted patio]

Else I wouldn't be talking about using my own hardware

[hollow grail]

i know some bad ones do it

but like idk

[wanton cliff]

starlink time

use that

[hollow grail]

ive never had third worlder tier internet in my life

[muted patio]

My last place

fastest we had was 5 mbps

[hollow grail]

i dont think ive ever been below 500mbps

[little osprey]

Off

[potent portal]

Never lili? Not even in the 90s?

[wanton cliff]

me neither

[brittle tinsel]

We go through a friend that works for the company and he said a custom router just wouldn’t work with them

[muted patio]

They'd sell you a 10 mbps package but due to distance from the DSLAM we'd only ever get 6

[little osprey]

Oof

[hollow grail]

no cause im babby

[wanton cliff]

lili only like 23

[hollow grail]

trauma has aged me

[wanton cliff]

same

[potent portal]

Well I grew up on DSL and I'm only in my 20s lol

[wanton cliff]

im 68 in my mind, methinks

[hollow grail]

and shut up sara im 18

[little osprey]

Happy birthday landon

[brittle tinsel]

The manager is the one that said to have more speed we would have to get 2 plans or upgrade to a business circuitry for 100 up 100 down

[hollow grail]

i baby

[hollow grail]

ooh fiber

[potent portal]

Actually to be specific I cut my teeth on 56k modems, DSL was later

[wanton cliff]

fiber good

[hollow grail]

fiber cutest

i got so much 7 11 pizza just now

[wanton cliff]

fiber fast

[little osprey]

Pög

[potent portal]

Fiber is good for your body

[hollow grail]

fiber can be quic

[brittle tinsel]

When we move we will have access to at&t fiber optic but until then dsl is all I have

[hollow grail]

100/100 is fiber

[wanton cliff]

5g give me headhurt

5g not good

[little osprey]

Headache

Migraine rn oof

[brittle tinsel]

But I’m. It about to pay $600 a month for a business plan if they can’t even deliver what they says on residential plans

[wanton cliff]

I pay $200 a month and get gigabit

[hollow grail]

lol 600/m

[brittle tinsel]

Att offers “up to” gig up gig down with fiver

Fiber

[hollow grail]

i forgot how much i pay for lililabs internet

[wanton cliff]

fiber can handle more than that

[little osprey]

Free

[wanton cliff]

whats fiber max speed?

[hollow grail]

but i have access to a half terabit network

[little osprey]

Lililabs provides its own power

Kek

[wanton cliff]

lililabs is op as balls

lililabs has best internet

[brittle tinsel]

Where is liliabs available?

[wanton cliff]

heh

[hollow grail]

anywhere

we arent an isp though

[little osprey]

Lililabs is worlds 1st global leading provider of internet.

[hollow grail]

lmfao

[wise sorrel]

Any thoughts on a pre-built gaming pc from newegg. Asking for my buddy who doesn't have much to spend.

[little osprey]

With up to 100% server uptime and 99% electricty uptime

You won't regret it!, Unlike texas right now

[hollow grail]

actually other way around

[wanton cliff]

budget @wise sorrel ?

[little osprey]

Lililabs has leading global customer service and infrastructure.

[hollow grail]

99.99% server uptime and 100% power uptime

[wise sorrel]

600