archived-game-design

[glossy root]

because its always better to scale down than up

[wild meadow]

thanks!

Not that I'm anywhere NEAR ready for that

[glossy root]

haha its alright

[wild meadow]

I just sometimes like thinking ahead to the finished product I guess. Keeps my interest up to know what it will be right?

[glossy root]

yeah

[wild meadow]

tysm. I'll check back if anyone else chimes in, but I need to go rest this headache so I can learn more

[glossy root]

let me know how this looks guys

its a flashlight

for a weapon

or tool

[north trellis]

looks like a good flashlight

[cinder hamlet]

looks great

[manic wind]

i like it

[manic wind]

is there a difference between a hitbox and a hurtbox?

one box which stops the player from leaving bounds and another box which detects damage

[stoic torrent]

The difference is that one is a collider that deals damage and the other receives it.

[proper zealot]

ive this procedural generation so far

im trying to make it randomly generate a seed on each Run, and not me doing it manually in inspector

[cinder hamlet]

I think that's a question for #💻┃code-beginner

[cloud berry]

what is better btw we bake in high resolution or bake in low res? which one is make on game load fasster?

[sharp robin]

Sounds like something to test out 😉

[sudden pendant]

Nobody knows you or what you're capable of. So, maybe?

[manic wind]

the only thing stopping you is you

so try?

you could parallax that

would look dope

layer it

[cinder hamlet]

well it is possible, it's just going to take a ton of work

[ember slate]

ive been looking for a way to do targetting via a third person game, but cant really find anything that isnt confusing, i need to move a object wherever the mouse is so i can calibrate the turrets to that, but cant find any unconfusing things to explain how to. any help/ideas?

[sharp robin]

transform.lookAt() is one option. But typically you need to convert the mouse / screen position to a 3D position. Then look at that position for the turrets.

[ember slate]

have the turrets lookat down, but what would be the best way to do that for the mouse position?

[sharp robin]

Just keep in mind the mouse depth is harder to assess

[sharp robin]

Vector3 MousePosition = Camera.main.ScreenToWorldPoint(new Vector3(Input.mousePosition.x, Input.mousePosition.y, -Camera.main.transform.position.z));

Then just use transform.lookAt(MousePosition);

[manic wind]

does anyone know any video games where NPCs lie to you?

[cinder hamlet]

LA Noire

[manic wind]

yeah i am playing LA Noire now haha

i should i updated here

[cinder hamlet]

Deus Ex Mankind Divided has some situations like that too

with its complex dialogue system

[manic wind]

thanks

i'll watch someone playing that

i'm not good at Dues Ex

[cinder hamlet]

wdym

[manic wind]

exactly what i said

[cinder hamlet]

well alright

though you'll miss out on the whole nonlinear story aspect

[manic wind]

i do

[merry yarrow]

does anyone know of a free skydome creator? i want to make my own hdri's but the only thing ive seen is either using blender nodes, Ai or terragon4... does anyone know of a free app that i can use to make seamless skydomes with?

cause i tried making a seamless one in krita with a cloud brush pack and it looked like dog, so clearly my art game needs work

[north trellis]

I guarantee you the guy who created the image you shared once asked the same question somewhere

"could it ever be possible for me to make something this amazing"

[manic wind]

he left?

[north trellis]

damn, replied to the wrong person, mean to reply to Kaffe

[manic wind]

my friend taught me a simple pixel art trick and now i feel stupid

[north trellis]

never discord before coffee

[north trellis]

feeling stupid means you've learnt something 😄

[manic wind]

i'm gonna make doors based on the sprite sheets height and width

but the character

not the clothing

[north trellis]

what does that accomplish? Not a pixel artist myself

[manic wind]

keeps everything in proportion

doorways

windows

portals

building height

[north trellis]

ahh okay

[manic wind]

i'm not sure if it'll work

still learning

[north trellis]

only one way to find out, and learn a lot in the process

[cinder hamlet]

I think it's best if you ask in #🖱️┃input-system since this isn't a game design question

[fickle marsh]

I'm looking for some high poky assets to use to put together a map. Preferably free assets

[manic wind]

okay?

[sharp robin]

I think you meant to type that into Google:D

[pine sleet]

the free version of https://www.lightmap.co.uk is nice

[long rampart]

Hey anyone has any suggestions about how should I improve this lowpoly level design? It just feels a bit unnatural at this stage. Should I add more grasses, bushes, flowers, or any other decorations? I can send more pics if needed

[lost merlin]

Could maybe try some low res textures for the grass and such

the light shading is nice, but when you've a flat surface there's just little detail

[cinder hamlet]

I think it's the forest that makes it look unnatural. The trees are repetitive and there's no plant life between them. I'd try increasing variety of trees (shape, size, rotation), add some bushes, flowers, all sorts of decorations. Real forests have a lot of different things in them

probably put trees on the slopes as well

[long rampart]

Sure and what about the normal green monotone terrain??

Thanks !

[cinder hamlet]

it should be fine for a lowpoly style

[long rampart]

This is what is looks like in game right now:

A bit boring ay?

I'm not sure how should I make this better

[manic wind]

looks too flat

try adding some shadows

gradients too

you're using a limited colour palette

make inside the log lighter than the outside

make the bottom blade of grass darker than the top

add some soft shadows

highlight the edges on rocks

@long rampart

[long rampart]

Well I'm not a professional, how may I do that? Do you have any tools or resources to suggest?

@manic wind

[cinder hamlet]

blender is a popular choice

though it takes a bit to learn

[manic wind]

are you working with solid colours or are you uv unwrapping them?

[long rampart]

I'm using synty assets

[manic wind]

huh?

[long rampart]

Not making any on my own

[manic wind]

oh make your own!

[long rampart]

What was the question sorry?

[cinder hamlet]

imo, if you're still a beginner, I recommend you just stick with the current look of the game, it looks decent

[manic wind]

you really should make you own

[long rampart]

You think? Well..

[cinder hamlet]

no point in doing that for now, first they should get the game working. No point making fancy assets for a project that might never get finished

[manic wind]

he complained about the scene looking boring 🤷‍♂️

[long rampart]

I will finish it, I already have a steam page up so I'm not gonna waste it

[manic wind]

steam page?

[long rampart]

And of course I wouldn't be able to make blender assets from 0to 100 really quick, although I bought a course for that, so I will learn

[cinder hamlet]

yikes, you really shouldn't set up steam pages while the project is still in its infancy

[manic wind]

you're putting the cart before the horse

[long rampart]

Better sooner than never

[cinder hamlet]

itch.io is a better choice since you can publish for free

[cinder hamlet]

Nope. Because if you don't finish this project, you'll have wasted $100

and it's never really too late to set up a store page

[long rampart]

I know, but its not the case, I am going to

[manic wind]

yikes

[cinder hamlet]

either you will or you'll have a mistake to learn from

[manic wind]

expensive mistake

[cinder hamlet]

still, don't waste money like that

[long rampart]

Well this should me the person's choice but thanks guys so much for helping me professionally. One more question: Do I put down a lot of decorations, like full of grass, flowers, and bushes, or just for example, 1 per 5 meter or more rarely?

[cinder hamlet]

first just make the core gameplay mechanics and a working prototype of the game, only after that you should worry about anything else

[cinder hamlet]

whatever looks right

[long rampart]

Oh I have that

I nearly have the demo

Just the scene what doesnt fells natural

[long rampart]

In your experience, which would be a better choice?

[cinder hamlet]

in my experience I'd just keep adding and removing decorations until it looks right. You cannot predict it

[long rampart]

Sure

Thanks mate

[pine sleet]

i like this as inspiration - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh_b9WDfZ-s

[pine sleet]

@manic wind is right that you should be adding depth, but the journey to art is long.

[long rampart]

Well I cant really modify the current bought assets and I'm not professional so...

But thanks

[pine sleet]

the approach in that video is very rendering driven

there are many ways to make low poly assets look beautiful without modifying the geometry

but you will have to modify the lighting and materials... art is a big story

it's good that you're asking for feedback though

[long rampart]

So will I be able to make it more beautiful and appealing without modifying the project files and adding depth?

[pine sleet]

the "teaching you to fish" approach is you pop open a book about basic cinema art, which is using light and shadow to create a scene

choosing a better camera angle, composing the frame well

it can transform your basic poly props into something really pretty. that builder's journey video goes over a lot of the technical details for how they made lego bricks look so nice

[long rampart]

I'm going to check that out 🙂

[pine sleet]

here's what it could look like if you lit it well

adding some ground textures

ambient occlusion, vignetting, a LUT, proper soft shadows all add a lot

running it through dusk

here it is with a better palette

you can decorate the farm

a lot of the dark brown on the ground doesn't mesh well

@long rampart does this make sense?

^the workflow for look development

you can vary the colors of the trees a lot, and make it fall

which is when you harvest anyway

or whatever

i don't know anything about farming nvm

lol

[glossy root]

name for this gun?

i was thinking something along the lines of Heavy Sniper

[runic rover]

The long and longer

[cinder hamlet]

depends on what other guns are called

[glossy root]

the long and longer

[runic rover]

Perfect 😂

[worn temple]

So, my buddy and I have been writing a novel for about 1.5 years, and we've decided the first true project beyond game jams and whatnot we're going to do is make an RTS based on prequel material to the novel. He is learning art and blender, and over the next 2 years will be able to contribute both artwork and models to the game. I will be able to handle all the sound design and music.

My question is, with a mid-sized project like this, expected to take about 2-3 years to complete, what would be a very rough estimate of the development team size and cost? We can hire some people, but will have to revshare with some if not most of our core developers, artists, and animators.

[sudden pendant]

Firstly, no game of that scope will be completed off revshare.

Secondly, you can find loose dev calculators online. But to give you an idea, it would cost a few hundred thousand.

[worn temple]

lloyd been typing for minutes i'm scared

[sharp robin]

I'll be a bit to the point.

I agree with the above, revshare likely won't cut it and would be risky. You are asking someone to do work for free or at a loss in all likelihood - and trying to convince them to work on your idea instead of their own, where they get full control, all the revenue, and to keep the IP. Additionally, the smaller and less experienced they are, the more free time they have, and the less likely they are to be successful on a large project.

A studio like ours would insist on that being completed in 3 to 4 months, and with 3 to 4 people on the project. We have a strict schedule and a lot of work, so running it for 1.5 years would cost way too much and take up way too much time.

But yes the calculation in brief:

• (months * team * rate) + base costs.

It can get up there in costs quickly

Ah nah, I'm typing slowly and playing with our puppies 😄

[worn temple]

no worries lol

[sharp robin]

It isn't impossible, but it is a higher risk, and needs really strong management I think.

--- what you could probably do though is get a freelancer or even a student, and have them work through a proof of concept over a month or two. That could get costs down to 10K. And then use that with a beautiful brief pitch deck to approach publishers. That may get you the funds to run it proper for a year or two of development

[pine sleet]

are you trying to make a networked multiplayer RTS?

and how much of your own money are you ready to spend?

can you give an example of an indie RTS you would like to have authored and which you feel is representative of the vibes you are going for?

your "X, except with art, sound and story by me and my bro"

[worn temple]

It's going to be like Warcraft 3, story-driven based on our novel

multiplayer would 100% be a later thing

can't estimate funding cuz we might get a business loan, but it could be up to 50/50 paid/revshare

I'm imagining the devs would be the first considered as full-time paid, followed by animators, but I'm not sure the general best approach to that

[pine sleet]

okay, so do you mean like micro-heavy RTS punctuated with cutscenes? WC3 is very old. is there a more recent game, an indie game?

[pine sleet]

i think realistically you should try to spend no money, and create one level in a pre-existing game as an overhaul mod first. the only RTS series with a big following nowadays is Total War, and a community authored overhaul i haven't played but seems to be really popular is Third Age, a LOTR overhaul story mod

if you wanted to reach an actual audience, you could author a DOTA 2 overhaul mod, like siltbreaker (Valve created)

if you think you can make a thing that appeals to kids, you can make a roblox mod. but those basically never have strategy games.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/570/workshop/ you should really browse this

[pine sleet]

the only time that is free is yours.

it is possible to make something like a WC3 campaign using the SC2 map editor with custom art, however there isn't really an audience or monetization strategy for that

not that you can sell DOTA or Total War mods either

otherwise, you should consider not making an RTS. WC3, when it was released, was a very different time in the industry, it wouldn't be made today, and nostalgia plays require a stakeholder who is directly connected to the nostalgia IP (like Thimbleweed Park)

While I can think of some indie strategy games generally that have A story, i can't think of any that had a budget less than $1m

or essentially >$1m if you did an honest accounting of all the free labor they rip off of people

[worn temple]

sorry had irl stuff going on

[worn temple]

actually pretty much like that. Gameplay on a top-down map, (hopefully) voice-acted dialogue with a character icon and text on the bottom of the screen. Only the biggest moments would be using either cinematic cutscenes or in-game model cutscenes, but that's entirely a luxury budget thing.

[pine sleet]

i think work on it as an SC2 mod

there are no micro heavy RTS games

[worn temple]

the story involves necromancy, lots of murder, and eventually sex so ya not for kids lmao

[pine sleet]

they have all converged to MOBA style gameplay

[worn temple]

age of empires is another inspiration

[pine sleet]

you can see if you have an audience. maybe it's WC3 classic players

[worn temple]

mostly for how the gameplay works

[pine sleet]

you're talking about stuff that was made by programmers

AoE is not something people who have never played the earlier versions would play today. people play it now because of nostalgia. it does not live up to standards today

[worn temple]

diablo is top-down

[pine sleet]

you should try the SC2 map editor

[worn temple]

same kind of idea, just more of a dungeon crawler than RTS

[pine sleet]

well i think you are talking about very, very different games which tells me you haven't really decided what the gameplay is

[worn temple]

we have, it's most like age of empires, creating buildings and troops and commanding them in a war

[pine sleet]

there is definitely overlap with the audience that loves AoE and the audience that loves the wolf among us, but you woul dhave to analyze the steam store data to find an audience YOU can reach if you are interested in those sort of suprises

[worn temple]

less crops and whatnot

[pine sleet]

Ensemble could not make a game to reach the Wolf Among Us audience

so it's not an actionable fact

[worn temple]

i'm less worried about the delivery of the gameplay, so long as it remains fun, since it is a largely story driven game, more like an RPG

[pine sleet]

well what would be helpful to know?

[lost merlin]

I disagree with AoE doesn't hold up. That game was already years ahead of the general rts scene, and even by today standards it still shines compared to many other current releases.

[pine sleet]

if you try the SC2 map editor and find it overwhelming, well, making a story driven RTS involves solving a problem that reduces to loving the SC2 map editor

[worn temple]

it's that versatile huh, i'll look into it

[pine sleet]

i would strongly urge you to disregard that opinion. only people who played Sim City: Build Villagers Against Bots think that a game with obnoxious mechanics and pathing would find an audience among players who are not familiar with the format at all

its HD remake sales notwithstanding

[worn temple]

our goal is definitely to keep things simple enough that anyone can enter into it

[lost merlin]

meanwhile SC2 had to go through like 30 patches in the first few years to actually strike some balance

[worn temple]

my buddy and I both played WoW and having 50+ buttons on screen and a rotation of 10 abilities is just not normal

people don't gravitate to that naturally

[pine sleet]

Frostpunk is an excellent example of an RTS with an audience and clever mechanics and style. however, its budget was a lot higher than $1m https://store.steampowered.com/app/323190/Frostpunk/

Steam

Frostpunk

END OF THE ROADSince the premiere, Frostpunk has been enriched with a number of updates. You can enjoy the new Endless Mode (with 3 ways of playing it) that increases the replayability of the game. There is also a new scenario - The Fall of Winterhome, that further expands the game’s universe and lore. And for the dessert, we’ve added things lik...

Price

$29.99

Recommendations

79320

Metacritic

84

▶ Play video

[pine sleet]

in 2005, iphones didn't exist. people who want to get into simple stuff have a million iphone games. it's apples to oranges

[worn temple]

and yet things like stardew valley exist

simple games have an audience

[pine sleet]

what would be a useful question to answer?

[worn temple]

the direction is largely up in the air, hence why I can't speak much to the delivery of the game

the idea is fresh, the execution is a tough call

the budget and time is a concern

and the ways to meet both are probably the biggest questions I have

[pine sleet]

i bring up delivery because if you disregard needing to make a return, then you can directly build the game as a mod for a pre-existing and eager audience

[lost merlin]

Well, that's something you should grasp the scope of before commiting to anything

[pine sleet]

i think its' best to stick to really inexpensive stuff that goes directly to your core skills first.

i can't think of any RPGs based on novels that were ultra low budget btw

i can think of a lot of indie turn based strategy games, which suggests more about the viable audiences than anything else

important question: are you actually Lucas Pope? if so, then yes, you can make a story driven game with MANY mechanics (RTSes have MANY mechanics) for no budget

[worn temple]

the mainline RPG will be multi-million hence why it's a long road project

[near zenith]

Not to nitpick, But Animators are devs. I'm sure it's not intentional but you wanna be specific on the wording when your looking to gain goodwill and respect for stuff like revshare

[worn temple]

sorry, fairly new to the industry altogether

[pine sleet]

you will have a multi million dollar budget?

i guess you should have started with that lol

most stuff that starts out at $3m ends up costing $6m 👀

there are a lot of seemingly middle budget PC titles, but most of them started out as low budget (anything between $100k and 750k)

the thing is spending $3m to build an RTS on top of unity is a waste of money, in a sense, because it basically has no affordances for RTS titles. with the budget to do it correctly, you'd be authoring something in ECS, which will take forever, and you'd basically have to write a ton of editor tooling from scratch.

if i had a $3m budget, i would work on at most 12 games for $250k, and if anything gets any traction, it would be effortless to find another $2.75m

there are a lot of mid budget games that on paper generated a return, but really it was because a ton of people valued their time at zero

[worn temple]

no i think you're missing context here

the mainline RPG will use the novel's source material, but the RTS we're making is going to be one of a few prequel games that take place in the same universe, setting it up for the RPG

RTS budget is ?????

RPG budget by the time we get there in 5-10+ years, hopefully millions

[near zenith]

I think before you think about budget and any project even remotely close to this scale you need to figure out what you actually want and prototype it

[north trellis]

Yeah, the stuff you're thinking about long term only actually happens if you properly execute the short term stuff. There won't be any millions if you fail early on due to lack of focus on exactly what you want to implement. Redoing things because you realized too late that X or Y isn't feasible, costs money. The more you know now, the less chance of it all failing.

anyway, here's a little military base for a short game jam i'm in

Just finished adding in an explosive-planting mechanic (minus the UI for it), goal of the game is to sneak around and sabotage a base (haven't added enemy npcs/ai yet)

[worn temple]

precisely the kind of answers i'm hoping to find quicker rather than later. I know there'll be mistakes, bad ones even, but can't hurt to prepare

[north trellis]

i don't know the best way to put this, but basically since the people who know your IP and what you want to do with it the most is you and your buddy, you need to figure out somethings that can narrow down what questions you want to ask in here. Basically, if you don't already have a firm enough idea of what game ideas you want, then all that can happen in this discord is a bunch of ideas being thrown around from multiple people, all of which would conflict with eachother. It would waste more of your own time than if you did some planning with your buddy to decide every single mechanic you want in your RTS game first (if i'm correct in understanding that this is the first game you're making).

One option you could consider is hiring a studio to make your game for you

[worn temple]

ya, we've only made like 3 game jams and a mobile game almost done rn

would hiring a studio mess with our rights to the IP?

[north trellis]

You're the one hiring them, you're the boss in that situation, you decide what happens with your IP.

You'd obviously need a lawyer involved

I forget the name of the legal term for it, but you can basically lend them the right to use your IP for the project you want only

[worn temple]

gotcha

appreciate the help, in spite of my ineptitude lmao

[north trellis]

nothing wrong with not knowing everything, I certainly don't, and wouldn't be able to pull off such a project of your scope without a lot of time, money, and help

The first thing, at least, that comes to my mind that drastically changes the budget of your RTS idea, would be the art style: Low poly or high quality?

not that there's only two types, but, the answer to that general question changes a lot for you

[manic wind]

remixing game mechanics is fun and challenging

[long rampart]

Whaat it looks nice, what is the name of the tool you're using? Or you just modifying HDRP sertings?

[cold onyx]

hey guys dose anyone know anything about armorpaint, im trying to install it but im haveing issues

[pine sleet]

i'm using a generative art workflow to restyle your image, because glamming up what you have is very procedural

[long rampart]

Could I make this with only post processing?

[lost merlin]

No better time to start learning than now

[sharp robin]

It can, especially if you are asking for a revshare or default on a payment depending on the contract. I'll put some details in here in a thread to maybe demystify some of that.

[sharp robin]

Studio Contracting

[cold onyx]

I've a personal website with art, designs including architecture and video game design ideas and novels (WIP) but would only share via DM and confidentially if anyone's interested. I'm really longing for cool friends who are particularly interested in strategy and some RPG when it comes to not only playing video games but also appreciating video game design ideas. On the website, I've very detailed documents on that so far.

Anyone interested, hit me up and we get started. I'd love to do VC as well as texting and walk you through!

Heads-up: no illustrations nor renditions for the video games design as of yet.

[cold onyx]

@sharp robin, seeing your loveheart, are you really interested?

[sharp robin]

I love the intention and idea, and support the honesty and vulnerability of it.

I didnt message though as I'm abnormally busy in life, and can take 3 or 4 weeks to even reply to someone

[cold onyx]

Alright. Would you like a DM anyways?

[sharp robin]

I think I'll support from afar for the moment if that is OK

[cold onyx]

Yeah sure if you want. Will DM do?

DM means direct messaging in any case.

[tacit totem]

If I am making a fighting game whats better? A ridgidbody movement system or a Character Controller movement system?

Becuase a ridgidbody movement system would have the benefit of a pre existing physics engine for knockback

But a charachter controller is better for root motion animations

unless I just swap between the two? but Ive heard thats unbearable to work with

[cinder hamlet]

imo physics in these games is simple enough to program yourself

[manic wind]

WASD keys to move in a 2D platformer and spacebar to attack? 🤔

[pearl moat]

Left click is best

[manic wind]

how does left clicking enemies in a 2D game work? @pearl moat

i'm thinking about making little platforms in my platformer hehe that makes the player jump into the air

[pearl moat]

Left could be either a jump or attack right could be a shield or something depending on the type of game

[manic wind]

that might work

i'll try it thanks

[fickle niche]

Ping me when you answer.

Does my ceiling look weird? I couldn't get the squares to align the way I wanted them to on the grid. Tell me how to do that. I was using G-Spawn.

[sharp robin]

I have no idea what g-spawn is, but yes it looks weird as it doesn't line up. A break in a pattern should only exist to serve a purpose.

But as to how, I'd open it in Blender and fix either the model or the UV map.

[cinder hamlet]

I'd say arrow keys + spacebar would be a better combo

[manic wind]

i wouldn't

sorry

[cinder hamlet]

because wasd and spacebar are both used by the same hand when it comes to gamers

besides, games typically let people rebind keys to their liking anyway so just go with the convention

[manic wind]

arrow keys is such an uncomfortable sitting position

[cinder hamlet]

yeah but:

1. For non-gamers arrows will feel more natural
2. Gamers can rebind keys to their liking

or just let people do both because why not

assigning two keys to one action is a common practice

[tacit totem]

Ay, thank you

[sharp robin]

While that may be your opinion, it may not be so for your players. No reason you couldn't add both and a simple rebinding. If you make it how you want it, yes lots of people will figure it out. But game design is about making it for everyone, and ensuring everyone can figure it out.

In other chats I wouldn't mention it, but because we are in #archived-game-design and you asked for feedback and immediately rejected the first feedback to come to you, I felt it important to reinforce the value of their opinion

If you've already decided - there is no point in asking

[pine sleet]

A lot of it you could achieve with post processing yes

This was meant to inspire you, I think it has a ton of potential

[long rampart]

It inspired me a lot, It'll be the second thing after refractoring my codebase. After that, leg IK, which I havent tried before so hope it goes right

Thanks a lot

If you're a bit interested, I'll send the final scene view after post processing was implemented, I'll be looking forward for your feedback though

[cold onyx]

Can I DM you?

[blazing bone]

hey so im making a 2d game and im thinking of adding character creation and im not sure how to go about it with 2d does anyone know a few games or smth i can look at for inspiration

its gonna be pixel art style

so like 32x32 probably less though

[lost merlin]

I'd say terraria but it's pretty awful

Well, the character creator stinks, but the armor sprites do make up for it

[blazing bone]

any idea some good software for pixel art i got photoshop not sure if that is any good

[lost merlin]

aseprite is compact, but honestly sprite work can be done in mspaint if you wanted to

photoshop, krita

[blazing bone]

ok thanks

[wild meadow]

Is there a term for, in the code, what you would call a math equation that tells the code what numbers to run? Like 2d5+ThisNumberFromPlayer=Insert into Attack

[lost merlin]

variables with a bunch of different operators

[wild meadow]

okay. 🙂 thanks.

My brain defaults to Algorithm and while that's true, it doesnt work when discussing specifically this stuff.

[lost merlin]

well, it is your own specific algorithm to calculate your stats

[wild meadow]

yes but when discussing 'okay why isnt this bit of code working', knowing the lingo will help avoid confusion

[lost merlin]

right, you'd want to make sure you're using the correct types and operators since it's not always known by the compiler, unless you explicitly tell it.

[wild meadow]

yep. so TYSM 🙂

also realized this may have not been the best channel. I'll try better next time

[inner maple]

im trying to do a low poly game about hospital but idk wich material for walls to do

[north trellis]

plenty of free assets on the store, and plenty more high quality ones for a price if it's worth it to you

you would need to provide more details, perhaps even a screenshot, for those here to be able to help you with this

[sudden pendant]

This channel is for game design questions. #📲┃ui-ux

[random cloud]

What's a good mod to this simple pong game I made?

[pearl moat]

Quadruple pongs

2v2 ping pong go hard

[north crescent]

@lost merlin hello my fellow tfm player

[sharp robin]

Give them a second axis for movement. Combine it with brick breaker. Make it slowly speed up indefinitely until it crashes. Make it so your paddle reduces in size when it gets hit and slowly regrows. Love the 2x2. Anything that makes the game unique

[manic wind]

turn the square into a fused bomb

[north trellis]

make the square spawn a new square every time it hits the bars, that has the opposite force (i.e bounces in the opposite angle)

[random cloud]

Anyone here ever tinker using a Wacom for Unity game?

[wild meadow]

I've looked at a few map making generators and they all seem inefficient or the wrong kind. What are some good and not too expensive ones that I can look at? I looked at that AZ one but couldnt figure it out... I'm hoping to find a kind of 'this is what it would look like if you photographed it' random map

[faint wing]

can anyone give any idea how i can visually present the slow motion effect in an isometric game

[cinder hamlet]

just some sort of post processing like blurring the edges of the screen and playing a sound

or simply desaturating the view

[sharp robin]

Yes, of course

[strong stump]

i was working a no garvity zone for a vr game

[north trellis]

i'd love to hear how you* approached doing that

[strong stump]

i used urp with a cubemap shader

[strong stump]

the rest is just modeling w/ probuilder

[bold wing]

Excuse me for asking, but would anyone know where I could find someone that could help me with some Daz made to UMA models, trying to make UMA clothing and armor work on them? I follow Anoraks videos but having trouble with the hair and clothing part

[loud oyster]

how can i improve my maps? first map is too flat and second is a mess..

[manic wind]

are particle effects resource heavy?

[lost merlin]

Both Unity's systems (Shuriken and VFX Graph) batch them pretty well if you decide to use them.

More so VFX graph since a lot of it is computed through graphic buffers, but this requires devices with decent GPU capabilities so using it on a mobile platform may not be as ideal.

[manic wind]

okay i'm curious which components drain the most resources for game design

[north trellis]

i had meant script-wise, handling interactions between player and objects without gravity, etc

[strong stump]

there's a thruster like in echo vr

[pliant bobcat]

Hello I have a more theory based question... I am once again starting a new project and for this one I really want to focus hard on making the movement feel great I've used a lot of tutorial and or asset based systems in the past but none of them feel good to use. I really really want something that feels Amazing this time and had some concerns / ideas that maybe someone with experience making a system would be able to shed some light on...

Firstly I would assume that one of the better feeling systems would be velocity based? Especially if I want to add things like dashing, sliding, etc.
Secondly when making a system like that I would assume root motion is out of the question, in that case what is good practice for keeping animations well synced and/or is there a good way to implement root motion to keep everything tight.

any thoughts would be heavily appreciated! (This would ideally be something implemented into a FPS multiplayer game)

[manic wind]

i don't know anything about multiplayer yet

[worthy vortex]

Generally, how many different sprites do you need for animation for NES style and SNES style respectively? (I can take a guess for the NES one, and say 3-4)

[manic wind]

depends how alive you want your project to look/feel

animators tend to use less frames for fast paced movements

maybe thats only for drawing? 🤔

personally i love the Metal Slug franchise so the more sprites the better lol

[worthy vortex]

oh lord, you're not kidding about Metal Slug

[manic wind]

haha yeah 😄

NeoGeo hits different

[worthy vortex]

Mega Man for comparison

[manic wind]

i love Mega Man

classic

[worthy vortex]

really made me wonder how they fitted that many sprites (for Slug)

[manic wind]

you can make a smooth walking animation with four frames

big cartridge

literally

i've love a NeoGeo

especially an arcade cabinet

[sharp zinc]

There is always a trade off between visually appealing and gameplay. You will never be able to have the best looking character controller while also having the best "feeling" which I guess would be the most reactive for you.

In other words, you are going to make tradeoff there and there. This is a constant fight between animator and game designer. An example would be if you add first step/last step movement. If you are not careful, this could result in reduction of the maneuverability of the character due to the controller being "lock" in those animation.

However, be careful, because what you consider feeling better might not be what is consider feeling better for most people.

[pliant bobcat]

I appreciate the insight thank you

[manic wind]

do you think strangers on the internet would volunteer to put their likeness into my video game? 🤔

[wary sundial]

what are some easy games i can make as a beginner so far ive come up with pong , flappy bird , mario , tetris

[manic wind]

Space Invaders

Asteroids

Pac-Man

Lemmings

Brick Breaker

simple and addictive

Tetris

[wary sundial]

ty

[north sonnet]

low poly map

[manic wind]

rocks

[north sonnet]

yes i just only beginning

[manic wind]

aye

settlement?

[sharp robin]

It definitely looks rough, but it's a start

[worthy vortex]

Okay. Any games that have NES style graphics that I can look up? ASIDE from Shovel Knight.

Which weirdly enough, I don't see much of that style in indie games.

It's either SNES or pixel art that is more detailed than usual.

[sudden pendant]

Why not just go straight to the source then?

[worthy vortex]

What source. That is the most ambiguous answer I have ever seen.

[sleek phoenix]

He probably meant look up actual NES games

[sudden pendant]

No, that would mean it wasn't the most amiguous answer ever seen!

[worthy vortex]

[north trellis]

i was born in 98... what is NES style?

Is it not just 8bit/pixel?

looking on google i would call it that

[sudden pendant]

It's a game console, so games from that era.

[north trellis]

oh yes, i know what the console was, I just don't understand the difference when he claims that SNES and Pixel Art are more detailed

[sudden pendant]

SNES was far more detailed in terms of art style yeah

[north trellis]

so he just wants extremely minimalist pixel art then

I was thinking there was some sort of other style that i didn't even know of or something

[sleek phoenix]

If you're just looking for a style reference I don't see why a regular old NES game wouldn't suffice

[blazing bone]

yo is that like the original size and stuff like i can edit it to help me learn pixel art or no

because i am very bad at animations and have been looking for a animation templete

[sleek phoenix]

I mean anyone can trace shit lol, I wouldn't say you'll actually learn how to draw like that though

It's like learning to write by copying a novel

[blazing bone]

yeah but it gives me some animations lol i cant for the life of me make a walking / running animation

the legs are weirdly hard for me

[sleek phoenix]

It takes time and practice to git gud

But if you just want a quick sprite do whatever

[blazing bone]

like this is me using a templete for just the character

and i do realise that 1 of the biggest things that can determine if a game is good or not is the art

[sleek phoenix]

I will say traced sprites are not an indication of good art lol

[blazing bone]

i know in no way would it be good art

but it would be smth at least

because right now im just using asssets from the asset store

[sleek phoenix]

Like I said, if you just want a sprite do whatever

[north trellis]

take a day or two and practice making something, it's only pixels after all

[worthy vortex]

"More detailed pixel art that would be otherwise impossible on the SNES

I'm surprised considering there are games out there that do either SNES or along the lines of Blasphemous.

[north trellis]

I remember in college doing some work for a company that was remaking old NES games, but i can't remember any of the contact info for the artists else i'd ask if you wanted them

[worthy vortex]

Like what else could I be talking about

When I said that line

[north trellis]

you just weren't as clear in what you were asking for as needed to answer your question, is why people were asking for more detail

[worthy vortex]

The original question is already clear

Crystal clear

Games with NES style graphics, aside from Shovel Knight

[sleek phoenix]

Again, just look at NES games?

[lost merlin]

battle toadsssssss

kinda of the end of the era nes game but it looked great

probably 'the' nes game shovel knight took most inspiration of

that and probably the ninja turtle series (actually maybe im thinking of the snes versions but that wouldn't count)

[lethal ocean]

Hey guys
Can I have some ideas to decorate this level ?
Maybe some debris, fallen pillars, ... ?

[cinder hamlet]

I'd make a parallax background to give it more depth

other than that yeah, various sorts of debris

[manic wind]

that looks good

[lethal ocean]

It's quite hard to find something that can pair well with that background to make a parallax background

[glossy root]

im starting to make my first enemy

what else do u guys think he'll need for a survival game?

[lost merlin]

feet

customizable feet option; human, webbed, centuar (i've been playing dark days ahead recently)

[sharp robin]

Food, faction support, hostility state, suspicion etc.

Should ideally all be a base class they derive from though

Scientist probably shouldn't be a main script, more of an enum, I would think.

But for now it's probably good enough to start with and refactoring as needed

[glossy root]

thanks man exactly what i needed

[glossy root]

thats so loud lmao

[north trellis]

just a little bit yeah

if you make your own sfx, it's best to leave some headroom (meter no higher than -6dB at the least) so that you don't blow your ears when listening to it later in Unity prior to lowering it in the inspector

[glossy root]

true

i mean the sound effects i have at the moment are just from another game

for testing purposes

i’ll be making my own later on

but for now i think it’ll do

[manic wind]

what do you call the transition where the video game stops giving you new features to learn about and opens up letting you do whatever you want? such as linear gameplay into open world

[cinder hamlet]

end of tutorial?

graduation

uhh I guess it's just open world mode unlocked

I don't think it has a specific name

you just finished the tutorial, that's all

[manic wind]

yeah sometimes you think you've finished the tutorial and a few hours later its still teaching you new stuff lol

[cinder hamlet]

wouldn't be good for pacing if game taught you every single mechanic in the tutorial and then introduced nothing for the rest of the game

[manic wind]

you would think so

i've got issues with how tutorials are designed

one of the reason i want to make my own games

[north trellis]

some games, the tutorial/learning new mechanics phase never ends, look at Portal 2, new concepts introduced right up until the ending

just something to keep in mind if it's a way to go that you'd prefer

[manic wind]

Yeah that is annoying

[cinder hamlet]

no offense but I think that might be an unpopular opinion

[sharp robin]

As a designer, you usually don't make games for yourself that you can complete - but that the average person and audience can and will enjoy. You, and a few others may succeed with less of a tutorial. But everyone should succeed with more of one. So unless you have a very good reason to cut it short, a good design principal is that you don't.

That said, if you feel a different approach is better for your game - by all means go with your vision.

[cold onyx]

@ebon stream You want to delve into a different branch of game design

it's gonna take a long time to learn

[ebon stream]

yes but it's for a school project (2D)

[ebon stream]

But I am really really unhappy with it rn because it looks so bad. And then all my work on coding is not gonna be appretiated because people focus on looks

[cold onyx]

maybe that could be it's message

[sharp robin]

Yup, how it looks is more often more important than how it operates.

[cold onyx]

Minecraft was an ugly game

but it nailed the gameplay loop to perfection

[sharp robin]

Even Minecraft had its design asthetics, music and charm

[ebon stream]

well minecraft has a stile tho

yeah

but i am talking like puke ugly

fr

[cold onyx]

Whats stopping you making a style

screenshot it

[ebon stream]

I cannot present this

[sharp robin]

It could be improved quickly

[cold onyx]

first of all, find a colour pallet of 3 or 4 colours

[ebon stream]

Well I mean you see how freaking bad i am

i am not trying to make an artistic game

but this

is just

nooo

[cold onyx]

that looks better than you think

[ebon stream]

ty, yeah makes sense

[sharp robin]

Yeah, but design is no different than coding. It isn't natural to everyone, and it can be taught and learned.

[cold onyx]

the washed backgrounds and contrasting cube play off eachother

[ebon stream]

yeah, but this project has to be handed in soon, and I just don't want people laughting at it when presenting

you know?

[ebon stream]

yeah, but the goal was to have like a desert and a jungle and ice biome etc

[toxic comet]

So I have purchased a nice asset for a dungeon rpg. What asset can you recommend that helps building up levels based on a variety of assets?

[cold onyx]

trust me, that's not gonna be the worst you see

[sharp robin]

When? And how much coding is left?

[cold onyx]

draw some sand in the foreground and some faded behind in layers

[ebon stream]

Coding is not much to do. It works quite well, it's easy to add characters, and it saves data in json. It's due in like 3 days and now i just need to get the design better and make the levels

it's just when i design 2d things it all looks bad , i mean i can draw a sand dune in 1 color, but that looks just bad and like it's made by a 5yo 😦

[cold onyx]

there is no such thing as bad artstyle

look at cruelty squad, post void

if you can't overcome it in 2 days

embrace it

[sharp robin]

The main thing for me is going to be the text/font/buttons. They are all different sizes. How I'd tackle it get to get uniform first:

UI:

• Use a different Square texture behind the buttons (gets rid of that ugly unity outline)
• Use a consistent hard-set font size for all buttons and text so they match
• Make the font inside the buttons CAPS and bold
• Increase the button sizes so that there is about 10 pixels of space at a minimum on all sides
• Make buttons and text always line-up (eyes follow lines, uneven spaces make people feel disbalanced)

Background:

• Consider a scrolling background (i.e. triangle mountains) to match the design
• As mentioned above, try limiting the pallette to only 3 or 4 colours (look up popular game pallettes to get an idea)

Other thoughts:

• I like to take a more stylized approach, but just some cleanup would make this go a long long way

[ebon stream]

yeah, i know , but it's just not how I would like it to be , if you know what I mean. And I am not worried because of myself. I just think people who don't understand the code are gonna reduce it to the looks.

[cold onyx]

nothing turns me off a game like the default unity button

[ebon stream]

ty 🙂

[ebon stream]

I see

[ebon stream]

and ty for your advice

[ebon stream]

and ty too 🙂

[sharp robin]

Yup, I have a checklist for my team, on there is no default skybox, no Unity default buttons, text or fonts

[cold onyx]

first thing i do is delete the sprite

i hate it, that little browny grey smooth border just grinds my soul to dust

[ebon stream]

so you mean from the buttons?

[cold onyx]

yeah

make them just coloured squares

looks 1000x more professional already

[ebon stream]

so i should make a sprite that is a square?

and replace it with that

[cold onyx]

no you don't need to

delete the sprite and it will conform to the rect

it's that easy

[ebon stream]

oh I see

ty

[ebon stream]

any good fonts that work well for a 2d game?

[sudden pendant]

That's like asking "any good blue that works well for painting blue?"

Fonts, like any visual assets in a game, are completely dependent on your art style

[ebon stream]

yes but i just wanted some suggestions. And maybe there is one that might fit

[sudden pendant]

Here's plenty of suggestions, then: https://fonts.google.com/

[ebon stream]

ty

[cold onyx]

you can import your own with tmpro

dafont is good for it

[ebon stream]

i see ty

I changed it a little now

[cold onyx]

looks a ton better

[ebon stream]

and the high score color is now based on the score

[ebon stream]

yeah i agree, still really bad, but better

Ty very much

i owe you something

just hit me up if you need something in cs2

if you play that

[cold onyx]

just come back and ping me when you see it was already better than most of the other games presentation

and you feel silly for worrying

[ebon stream]

haha easy 🙂

ty

something off topic, i know this does not belong in this channel, but do you know any good sound sites as well, where you could get no copyright sounds? For UI and stuff

[cold onyx]

I use Splice, but it's paid so im not sure

maybe they give free credits

really good for music and sound design too

[ebon stream]

ty

[radiant tusk]

or did my visual studio broken

[north trellis]

Pixabay has some free sfx but obviously credit the artist

in general though, the good sfx are sold in massive packs. People don't generally make stuff for free

[ebon stream]

ok yes ty, yes i will credit them even if they have no copyright

[north trellis]

that is best, if they're offering sfx for free chances are it is to get their name out there

[sharp robin]

https://sfxr.me/ 🙂

[north trellis]

man i had a whole class on 8 bit sounds in 2016 and nobody ever mentioned this 😭

[sharp robin]

It's super helpful in gamejams

[untold epoch]

Crazy, this has been out for a long time

[north trellis]

could be my teachers didn't want to encourage people to not do the work themselves i guess

[untold epoch]

[fallen torrent]

I am very excited here because I have been using Unity for more than 5 years and talking about what I do and if anything you want my services. And they deleted my message. I'm really disappointed.

[sudden pendant]

Yes, if you're offering services, you need to use the forums !collabs

[desert marten]

📢 Collaborating and Job Posting

We do not accept job or collab posts on discord.
Please use the forums:
• Commercial Job Seeking
• Commercial Job Offering
• Non Commercial Collaboration

[lucid mica]

I wan't to make a small game one that I can complete without randomly quiting and here is the general idea for it.

You are living in a simulation and the simulation starts to glitch and you figure out how to SimShyft(Where you can glitch between simulations on the simulation owners computer) with this power you plan to break the owners computer to end everyones meaningless lifes.

Any feedback?

[lost merlin]

when I think of small games I think of tetris

[lucid mica]

💀

[cold onyx]

wanna make a midnight food delivery game based on this vibe

@jackmcv.art

might use the visual style of dishevelled, pixelated, eerie, ps1 era mess.

but I don't want to fall into the generic style of just ps1 graphics

i want something jarring and unsettling

[cinder hamlet]

first thing that comes to mind are the time travel missions from titanfall 2 and dishonored 2

might be challenging to fit this mechanic into a small game though

[lucid mica]

When I get home from school I'm going to prototype it to test if it would work

[sharp robin]

I'd probably cut the story down to about 3 to 5 minutes, and I probably wouldn't even use Unity for it. There are better storytelling, webfocused, game engines.

But that aside, I'd cut it down to the bare minimum to get a story out - see what people think. Being weird can be good and bad (it is more personally fullfilling but higher chance no one else will care about it as much)

[lucid mica]

Thanks for the feedback, I think I did do a little to much for the story now that I think about it

[misty sapphire]

Do you y'all have any names for a tutorial guy?

[sharp robin]

Fred? Brotato? Sir Henry? A ghost! (Friends reference, needs exclamation point)

[untold mason]

how can you import unity asset store assets into the the actual "game file"

im very new to unity and looking for some help on a project my friends and i are making

[sudden pendant]

You use the package manager in Unity to download and import into your project.

[north trellis]

you and your friends as well would benefit from !learn. You'll be familiar with importing assets pretty quickly (it's basically required for each part of every course, to import something), but there is a lot more to learn than that

[desert marten]

:teacher: Unity Learn ↗

Over 750 hours of free live and on-demand learning content for all levels of experience!

[north trellis]

if you're all just as new, you could even designate each member of the group to learn a specific branch of the courses for the project you're making

[untold mason]

alright thanks a ton, I will forward this to them

[north trellis]

can't suggest giving it a go enough, it is the best way to learn unity

best of luck with your project 😄

[lucid mica]

I scrapped the old idea for my new game after playing BABBDI and now I think I found the game I won't drop randomly.
Here's an outline of the game

-> means the item to the right of the sign is gaven to you

I'd share my trello board but apparently now I have to pay to share as a observer

[manic wind]

i'm bored with ideas

show me what you've made

[sudden pendant]

That's what #1180170818983051344 is for

[sharp robin]

Yeah #archived-game-design is the right place for ideas, designs, etc

[boreal gust]

Looking for reference.
Does anyone know a game (3d if possible) that makes the wall transparent when the player is behind it ? Please tell me

[solemn dove]

Divinity: Original Sin 2 does this and is 3d.

[boreal gust]

Thanks 👍, if you know another example please tell me

[cinder hamlet]

Kill It With Fire 2

[boreal gust]

Thanks but what i mean is like, we can see the player. Then the player walk to behind a wall. The the wall is like masked circle, we can see the player

[sudden pendant]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=0rEF8A3wF9U

[boreal gust]

I'm not looking for tutorial, I'm looking for the game

[solemn dove]

Basically all top down RPGs do this in some way. Are you looking for a technique?

[boreal gust]

I've been looking for some. What i found is either the whole wall become transparent or the character is being colored but on top of the wall. I'm looking for the one with, the wall got circle (or other shape) masked

[boreal gust]

Basically like this tutorial here

But I'm looking for the game

[solemn dove]

I've seen some where the geo gets pushed out of the way, it's a really neat effect. I'm trying to remember the game.

[solemn dove]

40k Inquisitor does the circle cuthrough with a nice faded edge.

[boreal gust]

Checking it out

Its like what I'm looking for. But the fade is so good that if i took a screenshot, its hard to notice. I need it to be noticable :)

[lost merlin]

Divinity OS/Baulders Gate 3 and Pillars of Eternity are some of the more recent games that implement some sort of see through wall tech

Pretty much every isometric computer rpg has it

[whole ruin]

Im pretty new to Unity but i've done complex stuff in UE.
What would be the best way to structure a game where you make choices, and depending on those choices you some others...

In UE i would use data tables and custom structures but i haven't found anything related to that in Unity

[waxen barn]

i guess you would buy an asset for that or create it by yourself

[whole ruin]

ill never buy

[waxen barn]

buying assets is sometimes way smarter than investing weeks to programm them by yourself ^^

[whole ruin]

yeah IK but except if its really annoying i prefer doing it my way

[sharp zinc]

Scriptable Object and probably make a tool with the graph editor tool. (Graph View (but know that it will be changed to GraphTool Foundation at some point in the future), Alternatively, you can use UIToolkit to create whatever tool you want which kinda work correctly)

[lapis shuttle]

I have this idea for a turn based strategy game, designed the game mechanics and I like it but when it comes to the design of the UI/UX I'm stumped..
I tried to sketch something but I'm not satisfied with anything, there are several metrics/resources I want to display and I cant seem to organize it in a way that I like
do anyone have tips for how to tackle this?

[lost merlin]

https://www.gameuidatabase.com/

[lapis shuttle]

tnx! but I dont need ideas, need tips on how to approach designing UX

[frozen urchin]

I am developing an apocalyptic roguelite. Need your thoughts on what you all prefer in terms of worlds & levels.

Say I have 4 worlds - City, forest, sewers, swamp. Each world has 5-6 levels with some variety (different weather, time of day, difficulty etc.)

Now would you prefer that once you start a City run, you have to beat all 6 levels to actually complete a run? And only then you get some rewards and ability to buy permanent upgrades?

Or would you like to beat say first 2 levels of City, get some rewards, buy permanent upgrades. And then be able to unlock and play Level 1 of Forest, or level 1 of Sewers etc? Basically be able to pick a world and level that you have unlocked?

[north trellis]

well, how long would it generally take to complete each level/set of levels per world

also, does the story permit going from world to world back and forth all freely

[frozen urchin]

That would depend on which way I go about it. If you are going to have to beat all 6 levels to complete a run, not more than 5 minutes a level. But if completing a level is a run, then it could be 15 minutes of surviving.

[frozen urchin]

There is no real story. Which is why I can't figure out which way would players like it more

[north trellis]

without knowing more about your game, budget, skillset, etc, I would say, if you have the ability to make levels 5 or 15 depending on your choice, make it 10 instead. Then each world is at least a full hour of gameplay, a player could set aside an hour for the night to get each level for 1 world done, and move on to the next world only after completing the previous.

As for "no real story", i assume that means it's just not been written/conceptualized yet. That will be important to do, otherwise you may make sudden narrative changes later on that will require changes development wise too

[frozen urchin]

I am going to use asset packs to build my worlds. Which is why I want to limit to 3 or 4 worlds. And trying to see how best to give players enough to play

It's a roguelite - think vampire slayers or Rogue Legacy. No story needed I feel.

[cinder hamlet]

I think doing it one region at a time would make more sense

should give a better sense of progression

also probably easier to balance enemies since player will change region while getting stronger

[frozen urchin]

Thank you, that's a very good point.

Would there be a motivation for the player to play the completed world again?

[grizzled schooner]

That is always my problem with assets. Not worth the time if it take 2 weeks to learn

[sharp zinc]

Make mockup and mentally test it by pretending you are a first time user.

[round aurora]

Sorry to come in with a more emotional question since I know those are hard to answer, but I don’t have anywhere else to ask it.

I’m trying to come up with a video game concept that I can work on, but every idea I come up with just feels like “existing great game but worse,” and I don’t know what I could possibly bring to the table. How do I get past this so-called “designer’s block?”

Thank you all so much in advance!

[sleek phoenix]

nothing is original, so there's no point worrying about it

[round aurora]

That’s not my concern. My concern is people rightfully saying “why should I care about your game if *insert other game* already delivers a better experience than your game?”

[sleek phoenix]

your execution of the idea could be very different, you don't actually know if it would be better or worse or even different enough to be its own thing

[round aurora]

I’m one person. Whatever execution I can do WILL be worse.

[sleek phoenix]

well with that attitude sure

[sharp zinc]

The reality of creating a "good" game is that it requires tremendous effort. While it is possible, it is really unlikely that you would be able to create a good game as a solo developer, even more if it is your first attempt. You also need to be good at multiple task that you might not be suitable for such as code, art or even marketing.

However, the magic of video game is that it is a medium that is consumed faster then what is being produced (Life expectancy is pretty short, a couple of hours) (depending on the preference of the user). Meaning, that if you are able to produce a decent product, it will still have a chance of being successful. You do not need to compete against AAA studios.

Thus, the “why should I care about your game if insert other game already delivers a better experience than your game?” is way less important than what you might think. At least, for none live services game.

[hoary rain]

whyy??

i just need help

i ask in every channel here no one can help me

[sudden pendant]

Because your issue isn't a game design question.

If nobody has the time to answer your question, ask it again later in the appropriate channel

[crude heath]

Can anyone tell me how and what to do to bring feel in my fps game

[cinder hamlet]

that is an extremely vague question, can you please describe what your game looks like and what you want to achieve?

[sharp robin]

What I love doing is combining two unusual genres to see what they would look like. My last prototype were a horror RPG where every screenshot looks like a coloring book. I like to mix odd things and see what it looks like. And it helps you think of individual mechanics and how to bridge mechanics. Eventually you'll get such a backlog that running out of ideas doesn't happen anymore (these days we are only really limited by our imaginations)

[round aurora]

That’s not really the problem. The problem is that whatever I come up with either feels like a straight-up bad game or is just an existing game but worse, and it feels pretty hard to stay motivated when everyone would rather play a different game. Like, okay, I have this cool platformer idea and-

“Bruh why would I play this trash when Celeste is right there?”

[sharp robin]

I have a couple of things to add to this. I never compare what I'm doing to someone else's work, I don't really care what they've done. And I don't really make things for other people, it's things I want to play for myself.

Now with that said, that leads to a life of fringe games and Ramen for dinner with low sales quite often. But at least you love and are proud of the work 🙂

I believe in courage over confidence (trying new things, not doing the same thing over and over). Putting creativity ahead of technology (what you create is more important than how). And that there are two kinds of failure- its OK to reach beyond your own capabilities and risk failure, that means pushing yourself beyond your capabilities, and gives you a chance to grow.

What other poeple think doesn't factor into any of that for me. I am also very selective of who's opinions I do listen to.

A person typically plays many games in their life, often around the same time, and rarely one game for very long. Most people are eagerly seeking more games they like. If someone is making a statement like "why would I play your game if I could play X" doesnt make much sense in practice. If they were interested in it they would play both.

The problem, I think, is just self doubt- which is a whole other ballgame 🙂 and runs the risk of the self fulfilling prophesy

[round aurora]

Okay, “I’ll just play both” is quite reassuring, actually.

For me, other people are pretty much THE reason why I make games. If only I needed to have fun from my ideas, then bouncing them around in my head is enough fun. But no one else can appreciate a cloud of rapidly firing neurons unless I make it into an actual game that someone else can play.

Art needs an audience.
Art needs to travel through the medium of reality to reach its audience.

[sharp robin]

That's more of a personal mission if you ask me. Art, to me, most definitely does not need (and sometimes doesn't deserve) an audience. Building for others is a choice but doesn't change what is and isn't art. To me anyway. But at that point it's arguing personal values and intention.

Anyway, I suppose, fuzzy questions tend to get fuzzy answers from me (and I'm by no means holding a right answer)

[round aurora]

Still, it was a good talk. Thank you so much!

[sharp robin]

I'm sure you aren't the only person thinking about this:)

[north jacinth]

Hello. My name is Maryam. I am interested in learning about game art, but I prefer to do 2D art. I am an " actual " artist and paint and draw. I, however, want to polish up on using Abode Illustrator and Photoshop. Do you know where I can learn more about the skills related to digital art? It's been a while for me to use them.

[glossy root]

finally finished my enemies field of vision

this took me over 8 hours of this shit

[glossy root]

but the good thing about this is

that everything is curved, and it matches a shape of a sphere

so i can easily and perfectly workout if anything is in it with angles

[lost merlin]

Whatcha using to check if someone enters? Box collider + raycast?

[glossy root]

so im using a Physics.SphereCast

with the same radius

then checking if the collider has a tag of "Target"

and then checking the x and y angle

[glossy root]

raycast is to check after checking the angles if anything is blocking the way

[lost merlin]

Wouldnt your sphere still hit above the arc

ah, ok so yeah you do raycast too

[glossy root]

im not sure if this is what u meant

the yellow is the sphere cast

[lost merlin]

because if a unit walks behind you then your spherecast is going to hit that target

but then you need to check if it's in the arc length

[glossy root]

it is but then you check if the target is inside the angles

like if hes between those two

[lost merlin]

ah, ok right you can probably just calculate their position relative to the arc

[glossy root]

yeah

im honestly so happy with this

[lost merlin]

then you'd raycast for line of sight, seems ideal

[glossy root]

yup

[sharp robin]

Udemy is a great affordable way to get started:)

[north jacinth]

Will definitely check them out. Thank you.

[serene turtle]

thi may be a biased place but if i am looking to make a 3rd person souls like, would unity or unreal be better to use? Ive never developed a game before and my ambitions are to big i suppose

[north jacinth]

I suggest you research to compare Unity and UnReal. I cannot give you the answer. I am new as well.

[north jacinth]

I know about Unity. From what I learned from school, Unreal has more tools optional and less coding. But it's up to you.

[north jacinth]

I have a question. What software do you use to design landscapes and characters? Because I used Adobe Illustrator, and it came out crappier than the one I originally designed. Most game artists use Photoshop. I want to know your thought, or advice you want to share. Can you tell me what software you use a lot?

[cinder hamlet]

Yeah you should make something small first

a lot of beginners get stuck on excessive ambitions

but soulslikes are made by entire studios, not solo devs

[manic wind]

what

[cinder hamlet]

☝️

You might want to rephrase that

[manic wind]

i didn't understand it but it sounded political

[glossy root]

i use gimp2

its photoshop or illustrator but gets rid of 1/4 of the unnecessary things

i can send u couple of things i made for my game with it

when i get on my pc later

[steel stratus]

Hello, my name is Hayden and I’m in the middle of a project for University, though I’m struggling with part of it.

I’m trying to add a mechanic to my game where you have to clean your bedroom by placing specific items in a specific place (i.e. pillow on bed, lamp on bedside table), in order for your door to be unlocked.

I have the script done for Raycast so I can pick up the objects but I’m not sure how I can add an objective system, that opens your door when complete, and a way to detect if the items are in the right place.

[manic wind]

give each item you place an ID?

detect the ID with a raycast

[sharp zinc]

You shouldnt use raycast for that but Physics.OverlapBox and other physics querries.

[serene turtle]

I get that. Maybe a 2d souls like kind of like blasphemous

[sharp zinc]

It is more about what you are aiming for. Realistic graphics, Unreal is better there than Unity. Everything else, Unity is better than Unreal.

[serene turtle]

Ok

[proud tulip]

Thoughts on my GDD?

[radiant birch]

Ok now that I have slept a bit hopefully I can explain last night question better. CONTEXT: I have NPCs in feodal-style fiefs. Real-life France is separated into region/department/arrondissement/county then village. So it seems to fit better for a feodal simulation game and a nobility Hierarchy (region=dukes, departement = marquis and so on until local lords that holds villages). The US is separated into states/counties and the same city can be into several counties so it doesn't seems like it would work to provide locations for my game . PROBLEM: So far the only census I can find to generate enough name for the whole kingdom in-game would be the US census. But I'm really worried that since I use french towns that players will strongly disagree with the NPC names style not matching the town names style. QUESTION: Is this unsalvageable or there is some way I could explain it to players either in the manual or with an in-game story/dialog ? | Hopefully that is explained better now.

I had a few peoples try an alpha of my game and the very first remarks is that I'm using american names for the NPCs but the setting of the game is medieval france (ie: immersion-breaking)... But it's not possible to fix that I'd have to pay hundreds of euros to get the french census data in the format I need

[sharp robin]

It's a start... it is a lot of place holders. A design document really should have designs, colour swatches, the engine picked, the development stages should really have timelines, a bare minimum team, level block outs, character block outs, and examples of any features

A developer or designer should be able to pick it up and just start work, right now it doesn't really say what the engine or work really is. So it can't really be used as-is to create the project, if that makes sense

I usually create at a minimum two documents, a game concept document (canva or ppt work well for this) that also acts as a mood board and art board.

And a full gdd (which really should include visuals for most games).

It's also important to remember these documents aren't really for you (you should more or less already know what you want in your game). They are for everyone else.

[radiant birch]

the more I read this channel the more it seems I asked my question in the wrong channel

shrug

[sharp robin]

I figured you were rubber ducking, as I think you already know the risks and options.

I'm also a visual person so a lot of text I'm likely to skip over

[radiant birch]

eh I was hoping someone would tell me no you are wrong the US is more separated into a hierarchy down to towns yhan you think or that no you are wrong you just havent looked hard enough for a french census. This is more of a "I designed the game this way and I'h have to redo a large part of the design over this even though I know players will dislike it"

[sharp robin]

I don't really know why you want to use census data for the names, or why US names for French people. My experience with most French speakers is that they are very protective over their culture and language. So I think you know the risks to that, but there isn't really a question I can see there that I can answer

I'm not from france, french canada, or the US so I can't help you with that question I'm afraid. Others may be the same I'm unsure.

[radiant birch]

Ah I forgot to mention but I have a lot of npc names to generate (possibly over 1M) and I haven't found a cheaper source to generate them than the US census. It also has frequencies for first and last names and the odds for a middle name so with it I can generate 189 billion unique names. That way I'm sure to avoid repeat names especially when a player check all the NPCs in their village.

[proud tulip]

For now, these are for me, Its giving me structure to stay within and check things off the list.

I know these arent for me in the long haul

[sturdy schooner]

So I'm trying to make a cute ball character haha for my game but Idk what am I missing? How can I improve it more? I don't want to add to much of little details because the level is going to be in a huger scale compared to the character, so smaller things won't be actually noticable, the smalles things that are noticable in this scale are the particles on the character.

[pearl moat]

I thought that was a pig nose at first it looks cute though

[radiant birch]

Id make some sort of seam for it and a couple of thin spirals around the edges inside to better show that's intended to roll

Kinda like when you have a ball that isn't perfectly new anymore and it has some barely visible lines inside imprinted by the friction from rolling

[sturdy schooner]

Now I can't think about that looking like pig noses....thanks a lot! 😢 haha

[sturdy schooner]

ahh I see, that sounds interesting however I don't think those would be visible when the character will be scaled down...but I'll try it too thanks man!

really appreciate your feedbacks!

[round aurora]

Unsure what kind of game to make. I’m tempted to go for a 2-D platformer, but it feels like everyone and their mom is trying to make one, and it kind of kills my drive. Any suggestions?

[eager horizon]

has anyone seen a game on steam, web, switch or anywhere like Uma Musume Pretty Derby? It's a mobile game for the asian market (not available in the US).

It's an idle horse racing game (I don't support horse or dog racing in real life) but instead of horses, you race heroes. the game is deep but the main things I noticed is choosing a particular hero for their special ability, training up certain skills for a hero, resting your hero, increasing their mood (by going on dates with them lol), winning consecutive races to increase their following, and adding special ability cards.

here's a walkthrough of the game:
https://youtu.be/3LFdlmIC3qQ?si=CcevSfW4Qg97UIlr

[radiant birch]

I find a lot of inspiration personally browsing games on android and realizing Im not going to pay 5$ for that or tolerate 8 ads an hour and Id rather code it and do better or at least get the premiujm items for free 🙂

[sturdy schooner]

bring a twist maybe in the 2d platformer, I saw from game jams, where they make 2d platformers but removes a mechanic for example u can't jump, or controls changes or yeah go crazy on twists

[round aurora]

That’s what everyone does, right? I’m trying to avoid that.

[sturdy schooner]

haha okok what about top down then?

[radiant birch]

Personally I miss platform game that allowed you to design the level

or to place your own pieces to solve it - like lemmings for instance

[sturdy schooner]

there was an interesting one I saw in GMTK game jam demos, a platformer but there are 2 windows. If you drag window A to a platformer ground or wall it copies to Window B making it possible to create a path for your character to complete the level

I really want to make a rpg game huge project top down 2d tbh but damn working on it alone I won't be able to finish such project lmao

[north jacinth]

Can you mind to tell me more about it? I do not know what do you mean get rid of unnecessary thing

[errant onyx]

What genre game should I make

[glossy root]

photoshop has like 10000 things which no one ever uses or even knows about

this has all the things you'll ever need

[north jacinth]

I love Photoshop. I have been familiar with them since I was maybe 14 or 13. Can you give me the example of what people aren’t use them?

[north jacinth]

Right now, my skill is rusty. Would like to know more further about that.

[glossy root]

here is some art for my game i made with gimp2

this for example is just some of my items

[glossy root]

theres nothing more to know about it, its just my opinion

photoshop is bad

might be preference

[round aurora]

Well, what’s one you like playing? Or think the world could use more of? Or could push your skills in valuable ways?

[north jacinth]

I’m not familiar with GIMP2. I know what is it. Not really good at it.

But I get what you mean. Basic can do the best out of it

[young plaza]

does anyone know of any 2d pixel art games that use interchangeable armor on the player? Such that each piece of armor would need to be animated?

[sudden pendant]

Terrarria

[young plaza]

is this just animated with each armor piece being an game object with its own swappable sprite?

[sudden pendant]

Likely overlaid sprites

[young plaza]

yeah

separately, what games have made top-down/isometric feel really good with a pixel art style?

[thorn cove]

Voidigo

Enter the Gungeon

Crawl

Wizard of Legend

[glossy root]

i always thought terraria was made in unity

apparently its whatever this is

[mighty ice]

Hey guys should I place my loading screen on a new scene or just activate some UI

[sudden pendant]

Up to you

Really depends on the complexity of your project

Also not a game design question. #💻┃unity-talk

[mighty ice]

Okay sorry

[dreamy valve]

Mind telling me what a game portfolio is?

Been seeing it a lot on YouTube

[tidal rapids]

So I am still working on my own tile sets i just made the character the gun and the vfx for the hit. I just wanted someone to see my work I am so happy I got this far.

and the collisiond detection is so nice!

its pixel perfect I love it so much.

I am thinking about adding an effect to the gun as well when it shoots and maybe some sort of recoil effect on the right hand tomorrow 🙂

[manic wind]

how do you get the coin?

[sudden pendant]

@dreamy valve it's a portfolio catered for game development so one can find a job?

@tidal rapids #1180170818983051344 is for sharing WIP

[pine sleet]

Idle Heroes, AFK Heroes

[radiant birch]

it's an horse racing those games you suggest are side scrolling rpg games fighting waves of monsters. Nothing to do with what they asked. The game seems interesting but this question is off topic for game-design imho we are not a discord to help plauers find alternate games afaik...

[gentle locust]

does anyone know how to make a proper skybox sphere with inside flipped normals for 3d?

[sudden pendant]

You want a sphere with filled normals? Make it in Blender

Also not a #archived-game-design question

[sturdy heath]

how would one combine rogue like (top down 2d) with a survival game

[strange sable]

I'm currently using the Tilemap system in Unity, for a 2D TopDown game however I am creating structures and noticing that I need to create at least 2 different grids just for it. One for the walls, and the other for the roof. This is due to the fact that the sorting layers are only able to be changed in the tilemap that it is in. The issue I have is that there are way too many tilemaps when painting, around 10 and because they can't be sorted without their own Tilemap object. I want to know if there is another way to go about this. Simply: How can I have two sorting layers on one Tilemap, for example: one for walls and the other for roofs.

[cinder hamlet]

Game Maker's Toolkit has a nice video on combining game genres

[lost merlin]

Abilities:

SlashForward:
 - Tags: Slash, Physical
 - Weight = 10

TripleSlash:
 - Tags: Slash, Physical
 - Weight = 5

FireSlash:
 - Tags: Slash, Fire
 - Weight = 8

Fireball:
 - Tags: Magic, Fire
 - Weight = 10


Weapons:

Iron Sword:
 - Multipliers: Slash = 1.5, Physical = 2, Magic = 0

Fire Sword:
 - Multipliers: Slash = 1.5, Magic = 0.5, Fire = 2

Calculated Weights:

IronSword:
 - SlashForward: 10 * 1.5 + 10 * 2 = 35
 - TripleSlash: 5 * 1.5 + 5 * 2 = 17.5
 - FireSlash: 8 * 1.5 = 12
 - Fireball: 0 * 10 = 0

Fire Sword:
 - SlashForward: 10 * 1.5 = 15
 - TripleSlash: 5 * 1.5 = 7.5
 - FireSlash: 8 * 1.5 + 8 * 2 = 28
 - Fireball: 10 * 0.5 + 10 * 2 = 25

So, this is my idea for a weapon/ability system that involves a single ability pool of weighted values where each weapon will 'randomly' pull from. These weapons (and abilities) also inherit tags that I assign which can manipulate the chances of pulling specific abilities from the pool. Only problem is doing the calculations could be a bit much if I am calculating 100+ abilities every time, so ideally I'd calculate these beforehand and cache them.

[sharp zinc]

You could try to use the proxy pattern.

[lost merlin]

How exactly would I utilize that? I do actually want to add different ways to increase weighted chances beyond precalculated values. Like, perhaps your starting character is some demon so he inherently has a 0.5 increase to fire weights, but then that would require me to append to these values.

[sharp zinc]

Proxy Services only care about the caching, you do the rest without considering the caching

The only things you need to think of is when to refresh your caching.

[lost merlin]

Ah, ok so less of me having to load my own data and more just grabbing from a server upon request?

That would work better on my crappy word game I was making

[sharp zinc]

No idea what you mean, but the general idea is User -> Proxy(Caching) -> Service

[strange sable]

I am making a 2D top down game, and am trying to make the layers change if player is behind or in front of the tilemap. I see that others do this with a simple change of Custom Axis in Transparency but using the 2022 LTS I don't see it. Where is this setting?

[visual glacier]

Hi, I'm Josh - a video game developer who has been solo developing an open world video game for 10 years.

My game is largely inspired by the early entries in the Dead Rising series of games, but takes inspiration from many game series such as Grand Theft Auto, Saints Row and other open-world games.

I am looking for someone to help me with an issue that I have ran into, which is preventing me to be able to progress in developing the game by myself.

The mapping of the game map is a challenge, as I am trying to re-create a real world location, using a Google Maps 3D tile model as reference.

I need to get the height elevation, curvature of the roads to conform to the reference model. I am looking for someone to be able to help me figure out the best way of achieving this.

So far, I have created some great buildings and part of the map already within Sketchup, which I am incredibly proud of - however the map needs roads to be curved, and have accurate height elevation and slopes,
true to real life, as well as decals and road markings.

I have two different ideas on how I may be able to achieve this:

Idea 1 -

Create the roads with splines on top of the Google Maps 3D tiles model and then fill in the gaps in a 3D modelling software to create the terrain afterwards perhaps.

Idea 2 -

Create an accurate terrain with splines being used to create the terrain mesh using Google Maps 3D tiles model as a reference. I would then drape/stamp my models onto the terrain afterwards.

I think the first idea may be the best idea.

If anyone has any ideas please let me know. I am happy to share project files too.

Thank you so much for reading - I am hoping to leave development hell as soon as I have figured out a solution.

[sharp robin]

I'd probably use something like OpenStreetView to get all the splines for known roads, and stamp them to the world coordinates using raycasting (so they are the correct height).

Then use one of the Easy Road Generators to make the roads automatically, and spot check and clean up a few important locations.

That way the entire process is procedural and you could map the whole world with minimal effort with a degree of accuracy.

But point is, I'd do it programmatically.

[pale ibex]

looks cool ;D

[visual glacier]

That sounds like a great idea, thank you! I am just not sure how I would go about doing this within Unity.

Is there any documentation of this sort of thing being done before? I would love to explore this route 🙂

[visual glacier]

Thank you very much 🙂

[serene turtle]

!learn

[desert marten]

:teacher: Unity Learn ↗

Over 750 hours of free live and on-demand learning content for all levels of experience!

[visual glacier]

Just to clarify, it's the raycast part I am not too sure about how to work 🤔

[hard fog]

@severe iris There's no self promotion on the server. You've been pointed to the forums already.

@severe iris Please delete everything related to that

@severe iris Everything across all the channels

[terse sail]

hi there, my Unity/Steam game is unreleased. Any ideas how to set up a dedicated server?

[sharp robin]

You'll need to provide more information than that. I use OneProvider and Dacentec for my dedicated servers.

And our own hardware in a local DC

[terse sail]

I am hosting it at my house on a separate PC running Windows Server. I just dont know how to make it a game server

[sharp robin]

Do you need a server? This sounds like a #archived-networking question

[terse sail]

I have a PC which i have set up as a dedicated server and will leave on all the time. What I don't know is how to make it a game server. All the tutorials I find are regarding already released games which have their own server software.

[sharp robin]

Depends on what you expect that server to do.

This is far too vague to provide any suggestions, but again, it's a discussion for #archived-networking not for #archived-game-design

[terse sail]

OK i will post there

[lost merlin]

[Flags]
public enum WeaponTypeFlags
{
    Staff = 1 << 0,
    Scepter = 1 << 1,
    Wand = 1 << 2,
    Tome = 1 << 3,
    Dagger = 1 << 4,
    Sword = 1 << 5,
    Spear = 1 << 6,
    Axe = 1 << 7,
    Mace = 1 << 8,
    Bow = 1 << 9,
}

[Flags]
public enum AffinityTypeFlags
{
    Earth = 1 << 0,
    Fire = 1 << 1,
    Wind = 1 << 2,
    Water = 1 << 3,
    Dark = 1 << 4,
    Light = 1 << 5,
    Astral = 1 << 6,
    Slash = 1 << 7,
    Pierce = 1 << 8,
    Blunt = 1 << 9,
    Speed = 1 << 10,
    Duration = 1 << 11,
    Area = 1 << 12,
    Projectile = 1 << 13,
    Support = 1 << 14,
    Hex = 1 << 15,
}```
Fun game theorycrafting time, yay. So I'm making like 100+ abilities putting them all into a random weighted pool where the tags of the weapon will decide what abilities would be considered to appear on the weapon.  My question is, should I stick to primarily the Affinity tags to decide on abilities, or should I also include a weapon type to help minimize the skills that you may get on your chosen weapon? 

Pros of sticking to only affinities:
 - Larger pool of abilities to choose from
 - All weapons have a chance to obtain abilities specific to a tag type
 - Lessen the amount of unique skills to make if I made ability selection more strict
- One less bitwise operation per weapon ;)

Negatives of using only affinities:
 - Less identity overall for weapon types (I still can make an effort to make sure all sword have a Slash Affinity, ect)
 - Less unique skills throughout the pool
- Probably harder to manipulate the chances of getting specific skills

Also I'm open to any ideas for tags to include or abilities since I'll be stuck on this for the new week or two, haha

Oh, I should mention that I am planning on letting players add more affinity tags to their weapons if they choose so, but never more than one weapon type.

[manic wind]

what are your thoughts on a car model which can transform into a boat but using an FMV?

that way i can just switch them during the movie

[sharp zinc]

Do not use enum for that. You should use ScriptableObject because there is a high chance that you need to add other information on each tag.

https://refactoring.guru/smells/primitive-obsession

[sharp zinc]

You should definitely be able to minimize the skill with a given weapon type. More than that, you should be able to minimize the skills with unknown new feature. Meaning, you should create an interface to allow the minimization for future feature.

https://stackify.com/solid-design-open-closed-principle/

[lost merlin]

It's most as is for now for bitshifting selection, but otherwise nothing really set in stone. I do kinda mix other enums together into this which I think is a little redudant, but I don't think there's much relevance beyond just flavor of the tags.

I do think there's quite a problem in trying to manage skill variety through tags though, I don't want to find myself with a combination that's not likely to roll decent abilities or any at all (if I were to be more restrictive)

So another idea was to do something like Magicka game and always have a skill depending on combination, but then I lose that fun random factor.

[sharp zinc]

You can add condition to your tags.

Usuage of backtracking algorithm can enable you to have such condition + randomness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backtracking

[lost merlin]

Yeah, probably ideal or something similar over just adding some fallbacks of some basic abilities

Also, primitive obsession is a funny term. Don't make fun of my enums :(

[steep folio]

Anyone have an idea why I can't add anything in "Initial Parameter Values"?

[sharp robin]

Don't post your question in multiple channels

It also especially has nothing to do with game design

[steep folio]

My fault. It's a sound design question and either I'm blind or there's no channel for it.

[solemn dove]

Perhaps go ask on the FMOD forums, https://qa.fmod.com/

[glossy root]

did someone delete my message?

[sudden pendant]

Yes, you've been told where to share WIPs for feedback already. Make a #1180170818983051344

[left ruin]

it seems like multiple inheritance solves the classic rigid hierarchy issues that composition patterns like ECS try to solve and languages like rust try to avoid.

What is the disadvantage there?
if you just limit edgecases where there are same named methods (diamond problem), multiple inheritance seems like a great solution to this

[lost merlin]

c# doesn't have multiple inheritance though

I actually disliked interfaces starting out but they've grown on me, but inheritance as is has been super sketchy with some of my implementations like abilities where you're just better off with a composition approach.

Would probably be easier to construct if I had stuck with a single (original) implementation, but it became harder to manage the more ideas I wanted to implement along the way.

OOP too big brain for me

[sharp zinc]

Multiple inheritance does not solves hierarchy issue but create more ? By example, you have the diamond problem. Usually, composition should be prefer over inheritance because it is more flexible due to how it is easier to manipulate what an object has than what it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_inheritance#:~:text=The "diamond problem" (sometimes referred to as the "Deadly Diamond of Death"[6]) is an ambiguity that arises when two classes B and C inherit from A%2C and class D inherits from both B and C
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composition_over_inheritance

[iron gazelle]

so, most terrain in the world is on a grid, and all objects spawn on grid, so whenever something is at rest, it has some amount of grid alignment

[young plaza]

well

is it snapped onto a grid or not, like player lands at 0.2,1 do they snap to position 0,1? you said the movement in not grid based meaning you can be in positions off the grid so I am having trouble understanding why a grid would be relevant

[iron gazelle]

i think I have an idea to make it more consistent code-wise.
If (distance < threshold1) use default direction;
else if (distance < threshold2) snap to 4 way direction;
else snap to 8 way direction

[iron gazelle]

player never snaps. some blocks do autosnap to grid

[young plaza]

can you share a screenshot maybe?

[iron gazelle]

i haven’t made it yet lol

imagine a 2D sidescroller platformer

[young plaza]

essentially adding different physics based on small measurements they player won't notice seems like at best pointless and at worst really confusing

[iron gazelle]

you’re probably right

[young plaza]

just make the stuff on a grid and movement be totally normal, thats how every single game does it

[iron gazelle]

i probably do need at least one threshold for overlapping colliders, because if the object is on top of the center of the blast zone, there would otherwise be no way to predict where it will go

snapping or otherwise

[young plaza]

like no one spawns a bomb at 0.00012841, 0.74831 in their level, they spawn it at 0,1 but it can exist anywhere if it falls, gets hit etc

[iron gazelle]

makes sense. i’ll give it a shot. it’ll probably take a me a few days to finish properly prototyping and integrating

[young plaza]

can you explain that a little bit? like if the player is standing right on a bomb, they won't know where they will fly?

[iron gazelle]

suppose for whatever reason an explosion happens with the center anywhere inside (or extremely close to) player collider

moving bomb small distance will totally change player trajectory, and that will be interpretted as jank

[young plaza]

well if the bomb and player are both rigidbody2d, which I assume they will be, you won't have to deal with this

I don't think that will be janky, if you are close to something, like all games do this so I think it would be more janky to try and complicate it

[sudden pendant]

@errant onyx #1180170818983051344

[errant onyx]

oh mb

thought it was this channel

[fast cairn]

Oh to continue the idea from the unity talk channel maybe a co-op game where one player is 3d and the other is 2d and they have to help each other to progress

[untold epoch]

oh shit ngl thats kinda

crazy

baller idea right there man

[marsh forge]

do people just enable a hitbox in the animation during attacks or what?

[lost merlin]

pretty common

[left ruin]

Multiple inheritance solves the problem of not being able to combine types. Like A cleaning robot, and a killing robot, that you want to combine into a cleaningkillingrobot

that is notoriously difficult without multi inheritance

and one of the great arguments in favor of composition

but if you have multi inheritance, it is trivial to do

this does introduce the diamond problem

but we can avoid that by just making duplicate method names illegal

or forcing an override when it comes up

its pretty rare that two parent classes have the same method name anyway

[north pasture]

This quote is pretty good

[fast cairn]

should have said that to the unfinished switch games like switch sports, acnh and some others that update system is only good for bugs like the totk duplication glitch but they are getting better again

[cinder hamlet]

Team Cherry took that very seriously

[plain trail]

Anyone have experience with games like Devil may Cry, or Hades, or bayonetta and scheduling enemy attacks?

I need to develop a solution which is tunable and flexible but isn't overly complex.

[sharp zinc]

It really is more intuitive to create something like a cleaning killing robot, however doing so would rapidly start being hard to work with. Imagine that you have a Killing, Flying, Swimming, Walking, Cleaning, Cooking robot. The amount of possible collision is astronomic. What would be the real position ? (Flying, Swimming, Walking would have an intern position) If you call the function Update to update the behavior, which would be updated ?

Instead, if you opt for composition, you can easily manage all of that. In this situation, having a StateMachine would be the best, but you would not need it to clear up all those issue. The real position would be the one depending on the context. You are flying, then the real position is Flying. (When there is context switch, update the position of relevant behavior) The update function would determine which update to call depending on the context. You are in the air ? Call flying.

[lost merlin]

or ECS in this case cause affix stuff like that is the defining feature

[sharp zinc]

Entity composant system is not necessary and is probably worst in this situation. You want to handle the behavior of the object in the object, not in a system.

[lost merlin]

I've yet to try unity's ECS but using rust with a ecs library and it made making enemies of multiple types pretty intuitive to how I had these components to attach that defined its type

[sharp zinc]

Entity Component System has the notion of System which is completely different than using standard component. It takes away the control that an object has over its component. In a situation like ours, where we might not use a statemachine, it is primordial that we update the Parent Object which will then update the component (if necessary) than updating all the component without the Parent knowledge.

[sharp zinc]

In a situation like you describe, there is 1 behavior per enemies which make it correct to use ECS. However, if you were to have multiple possible behavior per enemy, you might need to update the enemy (Or enemy Behavior) instead of each individual behavior.

Oh yeah, and I realize that in a ECS, the component is not the one updating the behavior, but the system.

Meaning, that you might have a really hard time implementing custom behavior per enemy type. You would need to have a system/function in a system for each type of enemy including bosses.

[lost merlin]

The components define the behavior. If you got an orc that you want to make swim, this swimming component would be shared with all other types that implement the swimming. You can get away with defining unique behavior, but the idea is that the component itself is identical to all those who implement it.

So an Orc you want to give the component type of Range/Bow would implement an AI that stays at a range and hides.

[sharp zinc]

No, component are only data holder in ECS.

[sharp zinc]

In you situation, you would have either a system RangeEnemySystem or a EnemySystem which have multiple function that implement each behavior.

[lost merlin]

Maybe there's other implementations then, but I followed through on some tutorials which was pretty straight forward otherwise.

[sharp zinc]

There is a lot of confusion between what ECS is and what a component is. MonoBehavior can be consider component, but are not ECS component.

[lost merlin]

I've heard that Unity's ECS is quite a little more restrictive though and defines specific implementations so I'll probably have to take a look into that.

[sharp zinc]

With ECS, component are data holder and system are the one responsible for updating the behavior.

[sharp zinc]

If you use Unity ECS, you will find yourself force to correctly implement ECS because component can only be data holder.

[lost merlin]

That's actually interesting then, I'd actually want to convert one of my projects over and try it, but I'll probably have to fool around with it a bit.

[lost merlin]

ah, ok it's been a while but yeah you're right it's the 'systems' that are what define the behaviour and that's unqiue where the components are the data containers here

been a while since I touched this project but was making a roguelike when everyone was saying you should try rust

[sharp zinc]

There is a difference of perspective when you work with Data Oriented and Object Oriented. When you work with data oriented, if you want to have a soldier to attack, you are not asking the soldier to attack, you are making the soldier attack. In Object Oriented, you would be asking it to attack.

[lost merlin]

I actually thought unity used this approach when I heard unity used components and one of the reasons why I picked it up

[sharp zinc]

Yeah, at first glance you might think Unity GameObject is ECS due to how you have a gameobject(entity), behavior (component) and system such as Physics (Which could potentially be ECS though by itself though), but it is not.

[left ruin]

class KillingFLyingSwimmingWalkingCleaningCookingRobot extends KillingRobot,FlyingRobot,SwimmingRobot,WalkingRobot,CleaningRobot,CookingRobot {

}```
there is no collision on the `x` property, because `x` is always just a `number` per the abstract base `Robot` class , which just gets constructed the same either way, especially if you just reimplement the constructor here.

there could be method name collisions, (the diamond problem), which we'd have to avoid

calling .x would call the child classes .x

[sharp zinc]

If you have a field Position in both FlyingRobot and SwimmingRobot which one is the correct one ?

[left ruin]

if you use composition, you have to explicitly say which member you are calling

like ```ts
class KillingFLyingSwimmingWalkingCleaningCookingRobot {
components = [KillingRobot,FlyingRobot,SwimmingRobot,WalkingRobot,CleaningRobot,CookingRobot]

fn() {
this.components[0].fn()
// you explicitly delegate to KillingRobot's implementation
}

because compositoin = wrapper class

[left ruin]

wdym? they would not be different at all

with inheritance, the inherited classes are not actually created

the only object that gets made is the child class

[sharp zinc]

Calling .Position on the class would result an ambiguity between the position of FlyingRobot and SwimmingRobot

[left ruin]

FlyingRobot and SwimmingRobot do not ever get created

the child class inherits their members, yes

but you only ever call child.position

[sharp zinc]

What do you mean ? If you inherit from a class, your inherit its field.

The only way to remove the ambiguity would be to do (robot as SwimmingRobot).Position

[left ruin]

abstract class Robot {
  position: Vector
  constructor(position: Vector) {
    this.position = position
  }
}

class Killing extends Robot {
  damage: number
  constructor(position: Vector, damage: number) {
    super(position) // just gets delegated to base Robot class
    this.damage = damage
  }
}
class Flying extends Robot {
  speed: number
  constructor(position: Vector, speed: number) {
    super(position) // just gets delegated to base Robot class
    this.speed = speed
  }
}


class Child extends Killing, Flying {
  constructor(damage: number, speed: number, position: Vector) {
    // we obviously need a way to differentiate super constructors
    // probably the language way would be
    super.Killing(position, damage)
    super.Flying(position, speed)
}

with mixins you dont actually need to call separate constructors because they are all nested

but this works too

[sharp zinc]

In the optic where every type of robot might need a position. However, not every type of robot might need it.

A killing robot might not want a position

[left ruin]

then this just sounds like a sloppy implementation of inheritance

as in, the person is doing a bad job imagining the hierarchy

a bad job conceptually carving out the categories

OOP inheritance only works well if it is matching up to the real world categories in your brain you're trying to model

you can't just pick arbitrary combinations of data, like some robots having positions and others not

and then just change your mind about it 3 lineages down the hierarchy

so yeah, this does impose some restrictions. it is not 100% flexibility whenever you want it

you have to be consistent with your conceptual models

but that hardly sounds like a flaw of inheritance

I think it reveals a failure of the programmer to accurately model the concepts at hand

whenever I see criticisms of OOP inheritance, and I look at examples, I usually find that the programmer is picking a highly questionable design, conceptually.

like in this article https://leatherbee.org/index.php/2019/09/12/ecs-1-inheritance-vs-composition-and-ecs-background/

He says he starts with a base Humanoid class in his game. Then he has two subclasses, Dwarf and Goblin,

then he says this:

Finally, I just need to implement the weapons. I know: I’ll derive Hammerdwarf and Axedwarf from Dwarf and Swordgoblin from Goblin.

what?? He is imagining Hammerdwarf as a subtype of Dwarf?? That is a confusion of grammar. he should not be creating an entire class just to declare that Dwarf type NPCs can only use Hammers. this sounds like someone who barely knows OOP. What type of weapon a dwarf can use, is a characteristic of the dwarf, not a subtype of the dwarf. it's like he's conflating an adjective with a noun.

What he should be doing, is keeping one single Dwarf class, and just having a weapon field of type Hammer

enum Weapon {
  HAMMER,
  AXE
}
class Dwarf {
  weapon: Weapon.HAMMER
}
class Goblin {
  weapon: Weapon.AXE
}```
instead of his extremely weird approach of ```ts
class Dwarf {
// ...
}

class HammerDwarf {
// ...
}```

So the challenge and purpose of OOP inheritance, is accurately modeling your conceptual models. If you fail to do that, like conflating nouns with adjectives, or subtypes with characteristics, you'll start running into all sorts of conceptual incompatibilities and rigidities in your code. Because your code reflects your mental concepts, and you did a bad job representing your mental concepts.

This does process does take effort/skill, and most programmers are not naturally good at it to begin with. I think that is what explains OOP largely falling out of fashion and be disliked by most people. They can't do it well, so they assume it cannot be done well.

(I am not accusing you of that)

[left ruin]

BTW a solution i just thought of, if you wanted arbitrary types of robots to have positions while not, is just make a RobotPositional class, and multiple inheritance into that

[sharp zinc]

You know that the most import thing in OOP is flexibility. Literally almost every design pattern, concept or other theory revolves around that. Those restrictions you are talking about is the main reason why multiple inheritance is less useful than composition. This is the case because modeling a perfect representation of your needs is near impossible due to the variability of the feature, the amplitude of the work and the natural distinction between what is being modelized and the actual digital representation.

That being said, I agree with you that multiple inheritance enable you to remove the needs of creating wrapper/bridge, however I believe that the advantage you get from composition transcend those inconvenience. What is more, is that you can work you way around by exposing the component instead of relaying on wrapper or bridge. (When it makes sense)

Also, the example you gave is totally absurd and you are in the right to question the sanity of the author.

[left ruin]

feels kinda weird to have an entire class just for that, but i think it works?

[sharp zinc]

It is not scalable. Also, you still keep the ambiguity of what is the real position.

[left ruin]

Well I've recently arrived at the conclusion that the important thing in high-level programming is not flexibility, but instead conceptual accuracy. If we are doing domain-driven design, trying to accurately model entities and process in our domain, there should be restrictions; namely, we should restrict things that conceptually do not make sense or are contradictory with our definitions.

Like, dynamic/duck typed languages such as python and JS are technically more "flexible" in what they allow you to do, but most of us engineers agree that this is actually bad, and it is good to introduce some semantic constrictions (like strict typing)

the times that we find ourselves wanting flexibility, is usually when we go "our conceptual model says this should be allowed, but our code currently does not allow it"