tank-balance-discussion

[abstract oar]

You cant just always come close to your enemy on Tier 10 you often have to show your turret and shoot because there is nothing else you could do

[mental pasture]

Acceptable, it's borderline cringe to see one of those

@abstract oar Then peek and go back?

[abstract oar]

Yes @mental pasture and that's the part where you show your turret and your enemy just needs to hit it somewhere and does damage

[full token]

Show the turret when they aren’t looking

[drowsy plaza]

140 turret is better if you keep moving. The 62A is a bit open spot to clobber

But given the 60kph 4202 now, maybe give the 140 5kph more and better terrain resistance to further separate it from the 62

[abstract oar]

You are right, something like that would also help the 140 with its problem

[dreamy oar]

U must be new to blitz. The t32 has 243mm of effective armor. The tank DOES NOT need an armor buff.

[wicked sluice]

Its not meant to sidescrape duh

[uneven narwhal]

lol

[winged barn]

Lol

[quasi axle]

thing is 62a gets a better gun 😔

[strange shore]

No, it s completly balanced.

[quasi axle]

I just said the 140 gun is worse than the 62 gun
@plush perch only slightly and the other gun handling stats are worse along with the heat pen

[plush perch]

nope, 140 has better dispersion on move

[stray verge]

The 62a still has better gun handling overall

Anyways, 62a needs that gun handling, fewer turret weakspots, and more gd to compensate the inferior mobility and hull armor

[last shadow]

I can't remember the last time I bounced on a object 140
Armour?

[mental pasture]

I see 62a and the 140 as tanks for long range support and medium brawling, respectively.

I mean, let's imagine that you're on Castilla and you can choose between playing as 140 or as 62a

• If you play as the 62, you may want to use the classic castle camping spot in order to abuse the best dispersion values in the game
• If you choose the 140, well, you're the one responsible for capturing the castle and flank, perhaps even doing the LT job if there's no other better option

[golden turret]

in a nutshell:
T62A is a medium-TD
Obj. 140 is an obese light tank

[jagged crescent]

I’d rather use a 140. It’s a great brawler.

[unique scaffold]

Armor-Buff for su100m1?

[muted hull]

Buff the AMX 30b dispersion on the moove and stop. He is really bad at his job. Worst gun of all tier X and it’s unbalanced tank even when it come for the first time in the game. Unable to do hull down cause of his turrets. Cheeks are so easy to pen. The big weak spot too! Too easy to hit, too easy to pen, even with HE. He can’t pik-a-boo because his gun dispersion is so bad. Also he can’t snap shot because of his gun dispersion. He has the worst penetration of all the tier X even with the callibrated shells. The velocity of the shells is bad.The only good point it has it’s the mobility. So this tank can’t, hull down, can’t pick-a-boo, can’t snap shot, he is not reliable to do snipe, can’t be efficient from second line and in first line he is really bad. Snipe all the other med and light do it better. Second line also. So what is the point to put AMX 30b in the game to make it so bad! French bashing?

[mental pasture]

Can you guys stop the "guys, please buff that premium or collector" policy? A buff that is done can't be undone, if WG buff too much then we'll get another broken premium to deal with

Explain why WG never nerfed a collector tank (not counting the ones that were tech tree before) since 5.5, they also refuse to nerf Smasher for the same purpose

[plush perch]

they can nerf collectors though

[winged barn]

Yes please. If they refuse to nerf it, they should refuse to buff it. Hell yes.

bUt mEh mUnieZ

[golden turret]

the daily rant where a 10 year old comes on and rages about how "bad" his collector/premium is

[muted hull]

Just the truth. Look at the statistic of all the med and light and you will see i’m right. And for the record, i’m older than 10 years old and maybe more than you. So don’t be disrespectfull.

[mental pasture]

I'd rather let collectors be on the way they are, unless it's in an extreme situation that makes the tank barely unplayable

AMX 30 B isn't unplayable, you may do well if you start sweating and try-harding

[full token]

They can nerf premiums too. But at this point higher tier premiums and collectors are the same balance-wise. Both don’t get nerfed by WG. You can just sell collectors for gold and they have blue names instead of gold

[plush perch]

they can not nerf premiums iiirc

[rancid trellis]

They could but they won’t due to the fact people paid money for those tanks with those stats and to take those away is basically robbery, think of it as buying a computer with windows 10 just to have Microsoft put out an update that moves it down to windows 7

[hot fiber]

they can buff wisely

[mental pasture]

WG does everything, but not this.

So in practice, they don't nerf premiums/collectors if they cost money or are from loot boxes (basically, almost everyone of them)

It was in an Q&A, but I may be mistaken@plush perch

[full token]

They can and they have done it before. They’ve also said that they won’t nerf them because they themselves don’t want to. They didn’t say that it was due to any laws or their own game rules. They think it’ll lead to their customers not trusting them as much etc

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/441563751108444160/873609077077467166/image0.png

[plush perch]

well if you say " we never gonna nerf them !" and nerf it, then you lose trust. WG employees are really weird . @full token also when was that?

[quasi axle]

They said in #devs-answers that they have an unofficial policy of not nerfing or smth

[plush perch]

sheridan was balanced with missiles TRIGGERS me

[full token]

which message in there was that? from what i remember it was just them saying the tanks arent op enough or popular enough that they want to nerf them, and they sort of said theyd rather not have to deal with nerfing them and that theyve also not done it before. It just seems more like theyve avoided nerfing them before and that lets people assume they wont do in the future either, but its not entirely due to wg saying they wouldnt ever nerf them

[winged barn]

Am I the one wrong?

No. The community is wrong

[weary crypt]

The obj 140 came before the T62A and it's armor was mainly made out of aluminium due to only two tanks being produced. It kind of has the same play style as the Edelweilss at tier seven.

[full token]

yeah that still makes it look like they can nerf premiums and its just upto them in the end

[jagged crescent]

Speaking of which, the m60 and m48 are gonna lowkey become meta after 8.2.

[languid bridge]

They won’t especially the ones people have paid the most for in the game

[radiant zodiac]

M48 line looks painful, which tanks are good? Which ones to try and avoid?

[wicked sluice]

Cough Cough t22

[empty nexus]

Grab as much money as possible, then nerf the tank lol

[exotic goblet]

I grinded the line like a year ago. M4 sherman is still my most played tank just cos i like it so much. The easy 8 is also great, 12 degrees gd with decent turrent armour, good dpm. The t20 i actually quite enjoyed, no armour but good gun and speed, which was before the buff, so its gonna be even better with the buff, but there was no anni or smasher when i played t20. Pershing has decent turret armour, good gd, but the pen is really bad, probably my least favourite tank in the line, but it is still not bad. The m46 patton has no armour and bad pen, but I still somehow really enjoyed the tank, the gun and mobility is really good, it also has good dpm with decent alpha.

[radiant zodiac]

ok thanks, I might free exp most of the stuff for it

[quasi axle]

It is but they've basically said they won't so that's why said they have an unofficial policy

[unique scaffold]

Do you think that the Obj 260 is balanced or should it be like in the PC version ?

[full token]

It’s balanced

[versed tide]

It’s fine as is no point in touching it

[prisma jetty]

Easy 8 is pretty good, T20 is bad, Pershing is bad, M46 is bad stock, but actually becomes good once you get all the modules, and M48 is pretty much the definition of average

[quick lichen]

Underpowered if anything

[gleaming apex]

nothing#8657 has been warned.

[safe rapids]

Uh…T20 is fine and Pershing is solid. Some of the most fun drives I’ve ever had. You won’t struggle too much in them. It’s been a fairly easy grind for the whole line so far, it’s not as painful as people say it is.

[drowsy plaza]

M48 Line is a great like for learning how to play some hulldown tanks, some glass cannons, but also how to fit your team gaps as a jack of all trades. The T20 is the worst in the line currently as it has no redeeming features. It’s soft, decent but not great speed, decent pen on the gun but isn’t as accurate as the Panther I which was overbuffed (IMHO), it doesn’t even have the DPM of the Comet to offset the lack of mantlet armor. It’s not a terrible tank, but it’s the worst of the line currently.

[winged barn]

Its currently a Dracula-speed

[safe rapids]

It's ok, top speed is nice but yeah power to weight isnt great. It arguably has the best 90 mm gun of a T7 medium though, that premium pen is FANTASTIC at 245 mm. DPM is workable now since it was buffed, its a good flanker and support tank but the p43 ter is better as a brawler.

[stray verge]

T20 is just garbage. Average mobility, bad armor, and the gun…it isn’t that good. 2.1k DPM is just laughably bad. Kunze is pretty much better than the T20 in every meaningful way

[hallow grail]

Buff wt camo rating so its not spotted by air

[stray verge]

Yes, buff wt camo. I shall never be spotted like ever

[golden turret]

I don’t really care about getting spotted in a waffle since the enemy usually runs after I slap them and how mobile the waffle is

[bitter fjord]

Buff type 61

[safe rapids]

DPM is nothing if the gun can’t penetrate its shots. The T20 is a fine vehicle, I’ve made plenty of rants about how US vehicles are so underrated and how no one gives them any love. I guess I’m one of the few players who understands they’re not all bad.

[drowsy plaza]

What does the T20 give you than other tier 7 meds don’t do better? Nothing. It’s not trash, but you need to be careful as the DPM is still quite low, mobility is fair and armor isn’t existent.

[safe rapids]

This all comes down to doctrine. US mediums aren’t designed to be good, they’re designed to be average in all their statistics. This allows them to perform well in most situations but when compared to more specialized mediums the T20 falls flat. I did a more detailed statement about the Pershing that also applies somewhat to this as well, it’s the most recent reply. http://forum.wotblitz.com/index.php?/topic/113121-tvp-vtu-a-bit-too-tricky-for-my-tastes/ this is just easier than typing everything basically again.

[mental pasture]

Excuse-me, but since when Pershing is solid? That's literally the first time I see someone that isn't saying it's barely unplayable

[echo compass]

the tortoise' armor needs a buff, its too weak at the cheeks

[mental pasture]

So... Why don't you play it as second line?

[stray verge]

The US medium tree is powercrept quite badly, period. Easy 8 lacks carry potential from the lack of mobility, and its tier 6 so what do you expect? T20 is just bad, the mobility isn’t special and neither is the gun for trash armor. Yes DPM doesn’t mean much if you cannot pen your shots, but ANYTHING with bad DPM and has no alpha/clip to back up is bound to become this boxer that can only use one fist. Pershing also suffers from trash DPM, except that you don’t even have mobility and armor that isn’t all that good.

Were US meds a jack of all trades in the old days of blitz? Maybe. But not in this day in age, jack of all trades gives you average everything stats, NOT BAD EVERYTHING.

How do your friends approve of your masochism?

[frail silo]

lol that is extremely wrong

[mental pasture]

You're paying for the right to play the vehicle, not for the right to play the stats. And even tho, this right can be denied at anytime if WG catches you breaking their rules, and even tho, wouldn't be robbery.

Using this windows analogy, an update that moves windows 10 to windows 7 wouldn't be that bad, windows 7 is simplistic, have a clear interface and actually runs better in your computer.

It's the first guy that I ever have seen with good feelings about Pershing.

[safe rapids]

They don’t care. I have no idea, but I LOVED the Pershing. I just couldn’t get enough of it, it was just such a solid, comfortable, reliable tank I could count on. I’m sick of people just saying tanks suck, because they really don’t. Maybe I’m whack, but that’s that 😄

[dense walrus]

Pershing sucks

[stray verge]

Workable != good. There are literally straight up better versions of the Pershing such as the T26E5 and 59 patton so if you have fun in the pershing, these two tanks would be more fun unless if you are so keen into shooting your leg and have to suffer. These two tanks aren’t even broken that might take away fun factor.

[mental pasture]

Workable don't actually means good. The difference between those two words are rather simple.

• SU-122-44 armor is workable
• Jagdpanther armor is good.

[quasi axle]

since when did the su-122-44 have armor

[nimble zodiac]

Gun mantlet always exists

[mental pasture]

It works against most tier 6 tanks and tier 7 meds, the gun mantlet is also pretty bulky tho

[quasi axle]

huh interesting

[dreamy oar]

I don’t really see that as a strong point. Like yea it’s has chunky as heck mantlet, but the it’s the armor around the mantler is always easy to hit

[nimble zodiac]

It’s a strong point on the tank, just not a strong point for the tank

[hot fiber]

which premium tank ?

[desert dew]

Please guys am thinking of buying one of this tank and i dont know which one is best LUPUS OR ANNIHILATOR

[uneven narwhal]

Lol

[sudden granite]

Lupus is best bro

[remote oriole]

Lupus is better for the game as a whole 👀

[west arrow]

Also ur forgetting t25 pilot which is still a better Pershing even tho it bad

[vital sorrel]

Annihilator must get nerf. I send ticket to wg and he say : All tanks, like Annihilator is balanced ...

[quick lichen]

Prove it

[golden turret]

I swear that account seems like it was made to troll. I mean, just look at the pfp and the username

[golden turret]

What if the M46 Patton received higher pen but less accuracy or aim time?

[uneven narwhal]

That's just plain over-exaggeration man

[exotic goblet]

lmao at least get your grammar right next time u troll

[vital sorrel]

Wan't screenshoot ?

[nimble zodiac]

A moderator has literally asked for you to prove it

Preferably by sending a screenshot of WG’s response to your ticket

[vital sorrel]

All tanks in the game with Annihilator are balanced (i translated it)

[quick lichen]

Copy paste it to google translate

[remote oriole]

That is literally the standard copy and paste response for balancing matters… yeah yeah we know you dislike it but we assure you that we look at all parameters and balance the tanks accordingly, and we do our best to keep everything nice and balanced blah blah blah

[vital sorrel]

All the tanks in the game, including the Annihilator, are balanced with the other tanks in terms of maneuverability, the level of protection of damage, penetration and so on. Find out about the strengths of your tank and the weaknesses of your opponent. Contact your allies, choose the weak points of enemy tanks and you can influence the outcome of the battle. Programmers carefully control the parameters of other machines and, if necessary, make changes to them or the way they are balanced.

[quick lichen]

No no. Screen shot the google translation

[uneven narwhal]

Bruh moment
WG what you doing up tehre

[quick lichen]

Did I miss this somewhere?

Idk what people expect though. They’re going to defend it regardless. Same with the smasher

[nimble zodiac]

My only peeve with Annihilatpr is the turret armor :)

Poor Gravedigger has actual turret cheeks but gets 180mm

[stray verge]

Unfortunately, this is true

[drowsy plaza]

Yeah I am stuck just under 73% in the T25 Pilot such a terrible tank 🤪

[stray verge]

Good player stats doesn’t make the tank good.

[unique scaffold]

T25 is incredibly flexible. A player’s inability to capitalize on that does not make the tank a bad tank.

[quasi axle]

I mean tbf your battle count in the t25 is rather low

[unique scaffold]

I have more premiums than I have time.

[mental pasture]

But you're counting up to hours, minutes or seconds? I mean, if you count the seconds, you actually have more time than premiums, perhaps even more time than tanks.
It's a rather vague thing to say, ngl.

[unique scaffold]

Seriously

[remote oriole]

And that’s why you play the tanks you like, which are usually tanks you do well in

No, individual player’s preferences (or even performances) don’t say much about a tank

[unique scaffold]

It means that I have more premium tanks than I have time to play. Lately I’ve only been playing a handful of games a day if even that. I have a garage full of premium tanks and two different accounts. I really shouldn’t have to explain what I meant.

[unique scaffold]

And lately that has just been the T49 and the RAAC. Those are my favorite tanks to play at the moment.

That doesn’t mean the T25 is a bad tank though.

[drowsy plaza]

@remote oriole sometimes it doesn’t mean that at all. Sometimes you are playing tanks to remediate them, or chasing aces or just want to play non meta tanks. There are a lot of tanks I like, but I don’t play them as they have good stats while some of my other tanks don’t.

[prisma jetty]

I love my 252U, but I played it for the first time in months a few days ago just to finish of the Kryptos Code

[remote oriole]

That’s during normal operations, but if you just play to enjoy yourself during the little time you have off you usually won’t pursue long term goals like grinding or stats padding and instead just play tanks you like.

I mean, maybe that’s a character thing but that’s how I generally expect people to act

[stray verge]

T25 Pilot is workable yes but the mobility is mediocre and like most 84-90mm single shot mediums in tier eight, the sub 2.5k DPM is inexcusable for the 190-225 alpha. If a tier 8 84-90mm single shot medium is going to succeed, it needs both a cracked armor profile and mobility that isn’t dangerously close to heavium levels. Thats why the 5/1 and 59 Patton succeed but tanks like the Indien, are no more than wannabe heaviums

[slim trellis]

Can u guys buff the vk 45.02a? It has less armor than most mediums and the gun is the same as the tiger 2

[drowsy plaza]

@stray verge Wiki part of tier 8 balance for meds has always been they are harder to play than heavies / it’s an artificial gate keeper tier. I think we have always suspected WG wants less skilled players in heavies, but don’t want those less efficient players being embarrassed by good players in mediums / so those meds are workable for good players, and terrible for less skilled players.

[silent wigeon]

IX tier is where the fun begins mate, you basically have one of the best sidescrappers at tier IX, tier VIII is bad, yet you have to go through it

[drowsy plaza]

@slim trellis play it as a med hunter. It does well in that role.

[prisma jetty]

It annoys me how correct this statement is.

[drowsy plaza]

The problem is with the mobility buffs, HP buffs and other heavy buffs is a lot of heavies are better mediums than mediums are in this meta.

[vital basalt]

if you compare 45A to a med,its very strong with great gun,goodish mobility and goodish armor but if you compare it to a heavy,then its kinda powercrept with still good gun but paper armor against other heavies
i'd say only problem with it is that -6 gun depression kinda sucks with the fact that its a tall tank

[mental pasture]

I used to think that heavy tanks had these characteristics:

• Slow
• Well armored
• Are bad at spotting
• Can't last stand because they are too easy to circle

But then I noticed that common sense doesn't apply to wotb

[empty nexus]

Good thing the meta is changing tho. Heavies will slowly start to gain the characteristics you mentioned below maybe aside from bad spotting and Can’t last stand(all tanks can do a last stand, but it doesn’t always work out lol)

[twin egret]

To truely acr every tank. You would've also had to ace every event exclusive, only tanks, like the Mark 1 Event, or the Missile Event (T49 A).

Wait this is #tank-balance-discussion why I am I here...

[mental pasture]

I can say that meta is changing to worse. A heavy meta makes the game stall and take much more time to end.
I like the idea of a medium/light meta

[twin egret]

Hm, it would be really cool to see a mechanic that allows you to tether a tank to your own, that way you can pull them. Being at least 5 meters to an ally, point your reticle at them, press the button that activates the tether, a "request" will be sent to the ally you want to pull, they accept by aiming their reticle back at you yourself and press the key that activates the tether. To disconnect, either player aims at the other and press the tether activate button again.

Imagine having more ways to save teammates, it would be so cool

[leaden parrot]

Thatd be cool for getting allies un stuck or if someone flips over, or even if they're tracked

[uneven narwhal]

I can imagine dummies tryna pull a Maus back in a BatChat :facepalm_lol:

[radiant zodiac]

I don’t think you ever flip over in this game. Laws of gravity say no

[severe prairie]

I think that would be exploited and misused, idea is good tho

[placid palm]

#BringBackNewMM&NormalBattles

[scarlet fjord]

its interesting how IS-7 started performing nicely lately idk if the hit skin changes made it more troll or what but it seems smoother to play with it and respectively its doing just as better in the charts

[remote oriole]

Plot twist, the IS-7 never changed and has always been good

[uneven narwhal]

People simply considered it bad because IS-4 was better
Just because one tank is better than the other, it does not make the latter bad

[wicked sluice]

I personally like the is7 more than the is4 because of the gun

[regal vapor]

out of current topic but should WZ-120 recieve 5° gun depression?

[unique scaffold]

I like the WZ-120, the gun depression is fine for what it is

[humble canyon]

Why nerf IS 4, if anything, it needs an armor buff 😦

[distant river]

A man of culture I see

The IS7 has only really been bad in comparison to the IS4, and a lot of people's issue with that is the prammo pen which you don't really use in randoms. I think it's good performance is partly because it's pretty strong against standard ammo but it loses a lot of its armour against prammo, and RU is known for being allergic to prammo. The IS7 is still a great tank but it's a bit outclassed by the other even better heavies rn

[graceful ravine]

in the charts i see no amx 30b which i think is in need of some buffs, tank is outdated and got outclassed by nearly all the other mediums, its even worse than some lights

[gentle isle]

yeah that cupola is horrendous and imo makes it worse than the tier 9

[minor minnow]

I like the concept, especially the sort of troll proofing it has, where the other player has to accept

[golden turret]

Well, the other player has to accept the tether request so it can’t be abused

[quick lichen]

Lol the Maus and IS-4 are still topping the sheets and the 215b is last. Great rebalancing effort

[quick lichen]

You don’t see it because it’s not played enough

[quasi axle]

well the balance changes aren't out yet, you'll have to wait for 8.2

[vital basalt]

most british tech tree tanks suffer while premiums are on top,nice
AX isnt even on that list lol

[empty nexus]

He still has a point tho, a DPM buff would go a long way to making it Competitive. If not a DPM buff then better armour could help, or even better accuracy

[minor minnow]

Dpm= armored leo
Armor = faster STB
Accuracy, I don’t see any immediate problems with I think

[golden turret]

jumps to conclusions even tho these are 8.1 sheets and not 8.2 sheets

[drowsy plaza]

You missed the point of his comment

The 215b is a preemptive nerf, not a nerf based on current performance.

[frosty oriole]

bruh 215b is going to literally die

[thick rover]

What does raik mean by Maus and is4 are still topping the sheets? The nerfs haven't been applied..?
Oh I think it's part of the armour homogenisation changes for many tanks.. in battle there is no difference :") @frosty oriole factsss

[sharp saddle]

FV215b nerf is just another questionable balance decision in recent times, just like the T29 reload buff in 8.1 for example.They don’t want the heavies to just be better mediums, but are stubborn about special consumables, so will just nerf the gun instead on the FV215b.

[mental pasture]

Heavy meta sucks

[leaden flare]

or the 260 armor nerf xD

[quick lichen]

Yet another update where the Is4 and maus are on top and the nerfs they will receive aren’t significant. Meanwhile they need the 215b into the ground

[winged barn]

The centurion 1 needs a preemptive nerf for when some tanks in tier 8 get nerfed
Oh
Wait

dont mind all if the other tanks (>50% of tier 10s) before the 215 even becomes a problem.

[jovial aurora]

no nerf mausie pls D:

[thick rover]

ah got it thanka

[empty nexus]

Stb doesn’t have a tumor on its turret

[plush perch]

meh it handicapps hands you a lot

[drowsy plaza]

I’m not defending it at all. It flies in the face of how WG explains their balancing method.

[real bison]

to most heavies and TDs yes, to most MTs no

[quasi tiger]

Actually. I have been playing it for a long time and never seemed to find what’s so bad about it. I was never fully ammo racked in it ever. It’s prammo never bothered me, it’s just enough to go through weakspots and it makes you use your brain more rather than shutting it down and just spamming heat like a lot of IS-4 drivers do. And with the better mobility it’s good at bullying mediums and lights when they aren’t able to completely circle you

[full token]

M 6 Yoh doing nice with 4th best WR for heavies but best avg dmg for the tier

[drowsy plaza]

I suspect it will benefit from the upcoming nerfs on other heavies.

But so will the E100, and all the while the 215b is busy wondering what it did to get smashed by the nerf bat.

[tall crypt]

balance according to WG:
-Increase the HP of heavy tanks so that medium tanks are not too good
-Degrade the stats of heavy tanks so that they are not better than medium tanks
-Repeat until success
It is a pity that in all of this they hit tanks that did not even stand out too much from the others, except for one thing

[empty nexus]

Wouldn’t it be obvious To just nerf tanks with very good wr and buff the ones with very bad wr? Instead of nerfing randomly?

[drowsy plaza]

I don’t think it was random, but I don’t like the idea of pre nerfs. The concern was obviously the E5 and 215b would excel in a lighter meta. But the idea of needing nerfs before that turns out, just screams poor planning to me.

I think it would have been better to simply touch the super consumables and see what 8.2 stats bring.

[odd pecan]

dont nerf heavies

[nimble zodiac]

Gonna disagree with you there

[remote oriole]

Don’t not nerf heavies

[quasi axle]

nerf heavies more 👍

[quasi tiger]

*nerf the meta heavies. Leave the already not great tanks alone

[jagged crescent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/429319150180106281/874326446947049692/unknown.png
M48/M60 meta here we go
They’re also gonna get 255m of standard pen now

[empty nexus]

Holy. Good DPM + 350 alpha is just too much

[quasi axle]

have you ever heard of a certain tank called the leopard
or the 121 which has like 3.4k dpm with 420 alpha

[twin egret]

215b though on RU Server.

I swear, WG seems to only care about the RU server.

[golden turret]

Leo 1 has nearly 3.7k dpm right? I think this buff would make the Leo 1 sorta useless-decent but gets eclipsed by the Americans

[quasi tiger]

Personally I still prefer the Leo cuz it’s faster and for some reason I always found the M48 inaccurate compared to other meds

[gleaming apex]

lefti#6528 has been warned.

[thick wharf]

since when were they getting 3.5k? Thought it was just a buff to 3085

[drowsy plaza]

He’s adding rammer and both foods

[rare sleet]

3.5k dpm seems a bit much

[empty nexus]

121 Kinda Inaccurate on the move, M48 has armour, Leopard does not

[quasi axle]

yea, my point was dpm alone doesn't make a tank broken we'll see if patton ends up being meta but I don't think so the turret isn't that great
it's good but not as good as the stb or smth

[unique scaffold]

No clue if this is the place but I just had a game with my team not having any mediums and the enemy had mediums they need to recheck the mm again because I thought that was fixed a while back

[full token]

The MM afaik has a +/-1 rule for tank classes. You can have a team with 0 mediums and another with 1 medium. But it doesn’t consider mediums and lights as the same class so you can have 1 light and 1 medium on a team and zero of those on the other team

[scarlet fjord]

Or heavies around it are getting weaker idk feels so smooth rn I'm adoring it

[gentle isle]

imo no one should run any tier 10 meds with rammer because the heat pen boost with cali is so useful

[quasi axle]

I'd rather run rammer on my Leo tyvm

[quasi tiger]

Yeah since I don’t use premium ammo that much I’d much prefer the faster reload.

[quasi axle]

imagine not using prammo 😔

[golden turret]

Here we go again

[nocturne mauve]

Nerf heavies

[scarlet fjord]

Except Leo 1

[kindred valve]

Buff Conqueror gun depression and turret cheek please

[thorny mirage]

I run rammer in my wz 121 and obj 140... The AP pen is great... And i use them as support role so i dont need any penetration boost

[drowsy plaza]

Until you run into an IS-4 toon at the end.

[scarlet fjord]

121 can also use rammer for 2 reasons op standard pen and insane DPM for that alpha
But the big reason you would run CS is it's mediocre HEAT which in certain situations not having such pen will cost you the game perhaps as the 121 isn't much of a DPM oriented med at least I like to abuse its alpha and safely shoot solid shots rather than rely on the DPM I use the DPM when am farming ppl

[quasi axle]

uh idk if the 121 standard pen is considered op

[scarlet fjord]

Well imo it is as most meds have 245 APCR while this one features AP even the leopard 1's 255 APCR is inferior I think which has brilliant pen for a med
At least that's my take on it

[stray verge]

Not really, I run rammer in all of my tier ten meds because they have the mobility to get to a heavies sides and the handling to hit trackshots or typical weakspots like cupolas or lfps (you can try some very small weakspots like the e100s viewport or the krans cupola if you are feeling lucky)

[thorny mirage]

I think yes cuz it uses AP instead of APCR

[hearty steeple]

245mm is quite bad, even with ap. Even leo1 standard pen is not considered "op"

[stray verge]

Even with calibrated, a competant IS-4 can easily yolo your medium and kill you if you don’t know when to rotate

[uneven narwhal]

What are we supposed to be seeing here?

[empty nexus]

I think he thinks he had a good battle?

[unique scaffold]

Lol, no.. The matchmaking.. 6 drummers vs 1 on enemy

[uneven narwhal]

Ah okay

[golden turret]

That is the most busted matchmaking I’ve ever seen

[sour kettle]

the nerf on 215b is complete mystery. It's already under performing tank for years and gets a nerf on top.

[tall ermine]

They are going to make fv215b bad enough to not able to fight mt and its already bad enough to fight other hts

[thorny mirage]

U have to see player performance in update 8.1 at #devs-answers lol... 215b is the worst performing heavy recently... I hope this data change their mind

[full token]

What’s a discrod

[thick rover]

?

[full token]

scam link but its been deleted

[ebon lynx]

F my 215b

[quick lichen]

This channel isn’t about match making…

.whois @unique scaffold

[gleaming apex]

deleted user 6sa6df#2801

@sharp wave

Joined

Tue, Aug 10, 2021 11:07 AM

Registered

Tue, Aug 10, 2021 11:04 AM

Roles [1]

<@&481449168070508545>

ID: 874609051877658624 · Aug 10, 2021, 11:27 AM

[full token]

Rip

[quick lichen]

Oh look. An alt

@unique scaffold no you can’t

[gleaming apex]

deleted user 6sa6df#2801 was banned

[unique scaffold]

.whois 874615141315018753

[gleaming apex]

someguy's random sosig#3593

@regal umbra

Joined

Tue, Aug 10, 2021 11:31 AM

Registered

Tue, Aug 10, 2021 11:28 AM

Roles [1]

<@&481449168070508545>

ID: 874615141315018753 · Aug 10, 2021, 11:42 AM

[unique scaffold]

Another alt

[gleaming apex]

someguy's random sosig#3593 was banned

[ebon lynx]

Rip²

[fossil marten]

Why don’t you mods rename this channel to “vehicle balance” or something that actually describes what it is you allow? And equally why don’t you create a channel called either “game balance” or “match making balance”? Because there is clearly a demand for players to be able to discuss ‘balance’ in more than just the limited way you allow it.

[mental pasture]

Balance chat hale only 3 rules:
1- You don't talk about matchmaker
2- You must follow the first rule
3- You must follow the second rule

[prisma jetty]

#general-blitz-discussion if you want to talk about the mm. This is for balance, which does not involve mm.

[uneven narwhal]

I mean what else are you gonna balance other than tanks lol?
If you complain abt MM, a dedicated channel for that would make this server more of a zoo than it already is lol

[drowsy plaza]

MM rants etc are fine in #general-blitz-discussion but they don’t have anything to do with balance. Please see the video for MM concerns

[tall ermine]

People should understand that match maker is nothing that can be balanced there is no use to talk about it on this channel. The match maker is random and it cannot work as people wish.

[remote oriole]

Provisions, consumables, equipment, boosters, maps and MM rules all influence the balance of tanks.

Consider if we didn’t have class matching, then the heavy class would be substantially stronger by performance stats than it is now.

On a side note, there is also the discrete influence of the credit economy, but that is barely felt by most players

[fossil marten]

‘Balance’, the word; is open to interpretation; unless of course you’re only seeing it through the narrow prism of your own minds. I will have a shiny €1 bet that the vast majority of players don’t read the pinned statements about ‘MM’ and that’s why they post in here about ‘MM’ believing sometimes that they are trying to discuss ‘game balance’ or ‘team balance’ (no, not win rate before you all rear up and start cantering about) - which is what the ‘drummer’ comment from another contributor yesterday was about. So the comment by @uneven narwhal really is glib. There are many aspects to balance in the wider context of blitz. Hence my suggestion that renaming this channel could help reduce the incidence of posters talking about aspects other than pure tank performance. And I’m grateful to @remote oriole for helping to clarify the point I was trying to make.

[uneven narwhal]

Fair enough IG ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[fossil marten]

That’s actually incorrect. The MM has been changed as a result of player feedback; for example, the control of TD numbers per team came about as a result of player complaints/feedback because teams were getting slaughtered when there was an imbalance of TDs in one team.
@valid moth great contribution. 👏👏

[remote oriole]

[bot in me]: KanyeEast is someone who doesn’t have permissions to use that command.

[drowsy plaza]

@fossil marten MM allocation of tank type isn’t the same thing as folks ranting they only get bad teams, or ‘unfair’ team composition. We have had some good discussions here on MM tank type matching. Those discussions are allowed. But posting a screenshot and ranting serves no one.

[bitter fjord]

Can mm not have a team with one medium and light while the other team has 4 heavies and 3 tds? Imo heavies should be capped at 3 and there should be at least 1 light or medium on a team.

[quasi axle]

only change I would like to see is td cap reduced to 2, too many tds makes for very boring gameplay since nobody wants to push anywhere if there are 3 unspotted tds

[light ivy]

Imagine a moderator uploads this in a balance discussion channel 😂

[remote oriole]

I would give autoloaders their own class 👀

[fossil marten]

Well that’s good to hear but (and I’m really not trying to be contrary) the post made yesterday about one team being mostly drummer tanks and the other team only having one drummer was, imho, not a rant and quite relevant to balance 🤷🏻‍♂️ but @quick lichen told him this channel isn’t about MM? So I’m a bit confused?

[quick lichen]

He said to take it to #general-blitz-discussion , but I say take it to another server

[unique scaffold]

I concur on this point.

[fossil marten]

So which one of you is correct please? @drowsy plaza has just said tank type discussion is acceptable here and drummer tanks are now a prevalent type of vehicle. I hope you can understand why we (the players) might find this confusing with two mods having differing views on what’s acceptable to discuss.

[quick lichen]

I’m not sure what’s confusing when both of us say, not in this channel

[quasi axle]

We have had some good discussions here on MM tank type matching. Those discussions are allowed

[quick lichen]

Sigh

Line ups should be more even, they’re not always. Deal with it and move on

How’s that?

[remote oriole]

I don’t think that one can reasonably discuss balance while wilfully ignoring how these tanks you are discussing are matched in battle. And not questioning the way tanks are matched in regards to balance (e.g. that mediums and lights are considered as different classes despite having a very similar playstyle) only artificially narrows the scope of the discussion for no real benefit

[quick lichen]

Tier x isn’t woefully unbalanced. It’s realistically one of the best tiers for having a tighter spread. Yes some are better than others, Is4/maus etc, but it’s not as blatant as smasher/annihilator

I’m more annoyed by team mates making poor decisions rather than what tanks are on the other team

We don’t have games where one team has two extra higher tiered tanks so realistically there is no issue with the mm past potentially tank types, which you can easily over come with team work

This chat is about Tank Balance and I wish it was named as such

[fossil marten]

Did you read this? @quick lichen @fossil marten “MM allocation of tank type isn’t the same thing as folks ranting they only get bad teams, or ‘unfair’ team composition. We have had some good discussions here on MM tank type matching. Those discussions are allowed. But posting a screenshot and ranting serves no one.”

“This chat is about Tank Balance and I wish it was named as such” - precisely what my original suggestion above was 👍

[quick lichen]

I think tank type discussions are lazy and unnecessary tbh

[real bison]

does anyone have any thoughts on reducing the Vickers CR’s ammo capacity to perhaps balance it?

@quick lichen ig RoF could also make sense, it’s a cramped turret

[quick lichen]

Of all the ways you want to nerf a tank, this is the best suggestion you’ve got? Not rate of fire or pen or engine hp?

They would be using a nearly 50/50 mix of ap/prammo and like 2 he

[remote oriole]

Tank types are one of the categories within which a tank must be balanced (the other major category is the surrounding and residential tiers) just by virtue of them being matched against each other. I think if a subclass differs too much from its parent class it should be broken off and declared its own class. Similarly, if two classes are basically the same they should be merged to avoid that the +/-1 tank class rule of the matchmaker is made pointless

The only realistic reason why talking about them is pretty pointless is because WG balances within these categories, for example with the medium wide pen nerf or the heavy wide hp buff. And I do want to point out that WG is considerate in the way they balance which more often than not results in unique and enjoyable tanks

[quasi axle]

Tournaments should be well run, they're not always. Deal with it and move on
Nobody would say that, same principle here
You also said it was an issue but one that can be overcome with teamwork, problem is that teamwork in pub teams is pretty limited

I personally don't think improved mm on tank types would really have any negative influence on mm, queue times may increase a little but it's not like we're adding skill based mm or something so it wouldn't be that big of an increase

[quick lichen]

I’m one of the most outspoken people when it comes to tournaments and you know that

At the end of the day they are public random battles. Not everyone cares about stats or playing well and you can’t force them to do so

I think keeping the types more consistent would be a positive thing but 1 to 1 line ups would take a while sometimes and also could make games boring. Pubs are supposed to be quick

The biggest issue to me currently, besides the absolutely obvious train wreck of summer season and the pay to win nature of tiers 7-8, is that ranked battles are absolutely useless and awful. It should be about player skill and not battle spam. Ranked currently is the third biggest let down about the game and it could be a great outlet to test skill against like players but… that’s certainly not the case when diamonds and platinums play silvers and golds…

[remote oriole]

Yeah, I also oppose 1 on 1 setups and am quite happy with the current matchmaker rules. They provide a balancing safeguarding mechanism (e.g. Annihilators are matched against Annihilators), however, I do believe that tank classes and how they fight against each other is an integral part of vehicle balance (maybe you could call it macroscopic balance while individual tanks are microscopic balance) and thus should have a place in this chat.

That being said, I don’t think that complaining about one particular match up has anything to do with balance because it’s just a roll of the dice

[solid iris]

Nerf smasher ez

[quick lichen]

I’m so sick and tired of all of the times people complain over the select times when their team struggles and potatoes. I’ve never seen anyone complain when they 7-0 the other team and it’s a steamroll

7-0s will happen. To you and for you. It’s part of playing

[dark glen]

Ranked will never work with how small the playerbase is with a 14 player lobby to balance out.

[quick lichen]

We should discuss that in the proper channel but my solution is 5v5 ranked

[quasi axle]

Yeah that's what I'm saying, I don't think 1 to 1 matchups are a good idea but more consistent type matching

Ngl, I wouldn't really care too much about type matching if tank classes were balanced better but wg likes heavy meta

On rating battles I agree, there are a lot more people playing ratings now and longer queue times as well so I thought rating matchups would be better but apparently not

[golden turret]

when players argue with mods

[quick lichen]

There’s a discussion

[quasi tiger]

A civilized discussion which is rare on this channel

[nimble zodiac]

I’d say uncommon 🤔

[exotic goblet]

take away "on this channel"

[drowsy plaza]

@quasi tiger most discussions start out that way. Some posters however don’t seem to be able to differentiate a discussion from a repeated rant. This channel is primarily for tank balance. The reason MM discussions are not tolerated here is 99.99% of them are not a civilized discussion. The fact remains #general-blitz-discussion remains a better place for MM tank type discussions as they can quickly branch into other MM discussions, and even if they don’t they end up taking over the channel for hours.

[unique scaffold]

I’d still prefer they happen on a different server.

[fierce kernel]

hello, when tier 9 waffentrager will finally get nerfed? from stats it might seem it's more or less balanced, but that's because of the... "talented" players that have 30k battles on wt alone because they make 60% more average damage on wt than any other tier 9 tank and it's their favourite tank...

[golden turret]

The waffle is fine as is. If you use HE it will cripple that tank and make them waste their kits and everything so you can cripple them again and keep them crippled for the next 75 seconds. The derp gun is already inaccurate as hell so dunno why you think it needs to be nerfed.

[winged barn]

I can't tell if that is trolling or serious.

[minor minnow]

“The derp Gun is inaccurate” not really, lol. It’s fairly accurate considering the caliber and if you have trouble aiming use the reticle calibration

[drowsy plaza]

Because the Waffle really needed the Special Consumables and Provisions it got….

[sudden granite]

Ofc it did! My 48 wr wasn’t getting 60wr in the tank, ofcourse it must be bad!

[crystal spoke]

Was there any tank that actually needed the special consumables instead of a buff

[distant river]

Inaccurate lol

Also it has excellent camo, decent mobility and fully traversable turret, so erm good luck hitting it. Also if you rely on crew being killed in a trade with a 640 alpha tank with pen and accuracy then errrmmmmmm...

@crystal spoke The T28 kinda needed it...

[winged barn]

What the t28 needed was a hp pool that corresponds with its job.
It has half the hp pool of a t32 and they are both supposed to be armored beasts...

Or am I supposed to be a rhm with 0 flexibility, alpha, and mobility

[fierce kernel]

no it's not, 3100 dpm when it also has 640 alpha is absolutely ridiculous, it's more than majority of the mediums while having sometimes more than double the alpha, accuracy isn't bad, it's just average, especially for it's caliber, maybe even exactly in the middle, aim time is good too, also some genius decided that this tank needs this HE shield, that makes HE do as much damage as standard AP, so you can't quickly kill him, tds like this one should be almost helpless in 1vs1 brawl, but this one can easily kill you or at least destroy your battle, even 1 hit for 640 really hurts, not even saying about 2 for 1280, but the worst thing is it's flexibility, 360 degrees of turret rotation allows this tank to smack you for 640, immediately hide and do it again in next 12 seconds, even the reload time is perfect, you can get unspotted and peek again without loosing dpm...

there is a reason that a guy with around 1700 average damage on tier 9 tanks (other tds too) has 2100 average damage on wt and 38 000 battles on it, i have a screenshot if you don't believe me, or can give you his nickname if it's allowed here

[drowsy plaza]

I really really despise the idea of special consumables and provisions, but beyond that, I hate the fact they are blindly added to entire lines, and not selectively added to specific tanks if they will be used

[golden turret]

I forgot to point out the other redeeming qualities of the waffle but I also should’ve mentioned the HE shield. That should’ve never been added. Super consumables need to be toned down or removed.

Wargaming laziness

[sharp saddle]

Waffle was already a solid performer, then they gave it special consumables and now it is one of the strongest tanks at tier nine. It has everything going for it. The main drawback for is supposed to be the lack of armour, but that isn’t as punishing anymore.
I actually wrote a small article about it today which is on the forums

[distant river]

Yeah there were plenty of better buffs that could have been done to the T28 but the consumables were a positive when it really really needed a positive. I think the HP pool buff and also an actual armour remodeling to be like the T95 with no extra tracks would have suited it perfectly

[fierce kernel]

also 2 more things, wt has 1600 hp which is VERY high for a paper td, the same as mediums, more than t30 which should have much more hp since it is pretty much a heavy tank right, t34 but with 155mm, 2nd thing is HE, even if he can't pen you he still can smack you for 300-400, which makes him even more idiotproof

so now compare t54 to wt, wt has more dpm you, twice the alpha damage, more pen, the same hp as t54, a little bit less accurate, has worse stabilization, but better aim time, is a little bit slower and worse armor, but the difference isn't that big because it just denies existence of HE, in 1vs1 BRAWL i would say wt will win and t54 isn't a bad medium...

[quasi axle]

2nd thing is HE, even if he can't pen you he still can smack you for 300-400, which makes him even more idiotproof
just saying this is the same as every other 152mm

[fierce kernel]

yes, but it doesn't change the fact that this tank has it, another reason why it should be nerfed

[drowsy plaza]

Seems legit. Best stats on Blitzstars Tank Compare for average players — and most played.

/sarcasm

[remote oriole]

https://blitzanalysiz.com/update/8.0/tanks/9/

Let me just drop this here…

[drowsy plaza]

Hmm. Seems fine. /sarcasm

[distant river]

Premium/amazing tank/prem/amazing tank/generic tech tree tank that totally doesn't need a nerf

🤨

[leaden flare]

That's the biggest lie I've seen in a while
That tank is over the top in almost every possible way

[dreamy oar]

Ok so apparently, this little missle/flood light/range finder on the lupus is part of the hit box. Why. Like it servers no purpose to the tank it’s part of the hit box? So is WG gonna fix/change it or naw

[stray verge]

Why buff an already broken tier 7 premium?

[full token]

It’s been that way since release. It’s intended to be like that

[wicked quest]

Or just turning to the side a bit automatically makes it take no damage

[dreamy oar]

But why though. Like that part serves no purpose to tank but sides make it look cool(imo). It like how the range finders on the t29 used be counted as part of the hit box

[exotic goblet]

lemme explain: to balance the tank

[celest marlin]

^ very weird move by wg to balance tanks

[dreamy oar]

How is that used to balance the tank. I LEGITIMATELY can’t understand how it’s used to the tank. I’m being honest here that I don’t understand HOW it’s making the tank balance.

[gilded pebble]

It's an exposed weak spot that can be shot when the thing uses its 12 degrees of gun depression.

[full token]

Removing it is a buff. Does the Lupus need the buff? No, so the weakspot can stay

[bright grail]

I just hope they buff the 121B for no other reason other than them thinking they need to because of the wr stats. And yes I know it really doesn't need one.

[unique scaffold]

I suspect that the Fatton buff is a test and that additional medium buffs may be following based off the results of that test

[quasi axle]

idk the patton probably needed a buff regardless

[unique scaffold]

The funny thing is if the 60 buff goes through and the they decide it’s too much they will be very hesitant to roll it back due to the tanks premium status.

[minor minnow]

I mean, if the M60 keeps the buff and the M48 loses it you’d have a reason to play it over the 48

[nimble zodiac]

Other than profitability? 😳

Lol I did not just troll people
They both have 81% afaik
And M48 actually can bring it to 129%

[rare sleet]

it's barely more profitable so in reality they make about the same amount of credits
Same credit coefficient, tiny bit less repair cost factor

[quasi axle]

isnt m60 credit coefficient pretty bad

[uneven narwhal]

Good man
Now do the same for a 100 battles and see the average come out near equal
Also naming and shaming smh

[dense walrus]

Good man.
Doesn't understand how to form a meaningful sample size, what random MM entails, or what the pins clearly state.
Bravo.

[storm salmon]

edit: fine, whatever I would like to see your sample size from a 1440p screenshot

[uneven narwhal]

I mean....
Still gonna get deleted coz mm complaints aren't tolerated here wheeze

[stray verge]

Luv the free nitro lul

[uneven narwhal]

I got a 37 battle sample size if you would like to see, not more
And that data is entirely from my replays from 3rd August

Now the average comes at so low at 37 because theres 13 slots left at 0 so...
Still pretty same WR

[nimble zodiac]

Time to extrapolate using mafff

Allied Extrapolation: 51.378
Enemy Extrapolation: 50.395

Ain't MM just so fair?
The world of information 😁

[dense walrus]

Skill issue

[supple scaffold]

From 10 match all the time opponent have wt german tier 9 td and always we lose cause of camper wt , it is so op and all players use, so i hope it will be nerved from camo rate, otherwise so op

[dense walrus]

Finally something I can agree with

[full token]

Is this milanmrlian but with improved balance discussion skills?

[wise vault]

Is there a weakening plan for the Soviet tank is-7?

[prisma jetty]

Nope.

[languid bridge]

Is 7 is bad

[full token]

not bad. Its just not as good as the other heavies rn. Its nice for a tier 10

[uneven narwhal]

No

[quick lichen]

This is not what this channel is for

[uneven narwhal]

Ik, he just asked for a sample size and I gave it

[quick lichen]

But that’s not what the channel is about. Regardless of who asked. So why post it?

[uneven narwhal]

Understandable have a great day

[mental pasture]

I don't think so, that guy speaks English way better than milanmrlian

[vital basalt]

with this M48 pen buff,maybe M46 can use a buff too? like 218 pen to 225?

[winged barn]

I dunno man, the t95 camo is so much better.

[winged barn]

To make people shut up about dumb things.

[mental pasture]

Good answer

[golden turret]

Nice

[slim trellis]

Vk 45.02a needs dispersion buff. The tank is already complete garbage at least make people able to snapshot. The tank right now forces you to either snapshot and hope not to miss your pitiful 310 alpha, or to wait for the gun to aim in and get penned by absolutely everything

[empty nexus]

Vk 45 is played as a heavium, Yes it could do with a buff maybe but it does a lot better on the med flank.
@quasi axle no, but it does hint at its playstyle in hopes it will decrease dependency on having great dispersion.
@remote oriole soon 😁😁

[remote oriole]

If only this was a med meta and not a heavy meta

[quasi axle]

it being a heavium doesnt change anything about its dispersion

[slim trellis]

Playing med side against meds means you need to turn your turret and tank quickly, which increases the dispersion too much. The tank does not bounce meds. It cannot keep up with them. The gun is too inaccurate and the dpm is too low. The tank does not have a single slightly appealing statistic, which is why i think giving it a gun capable of snapshotting is needed

[quasi tiger]

Man its such utter bs how they buffed the tiger II’s lower plate to be better than almost every tier 10’s lower plate on top of the ufp and turret cheek buffs. You’re playing an IS-3 and face a Tiger II on flat ground that you can’t flank? Time to snipe a cupola with a russian 122mm!!!! Or if you’re feeling really lucky spend thousand of credits trying to hit his turret cheeks where you are at the mercy of both aiming and pen rng

[quasi axle]

or you could.. just shoot the hull?

[storm salmon]

OK, now it makes sense. Thanks for the chart. It's just that MM doesn't factor in how well a player actually is, if they are going to play or bail, and are they padding their stats by playing the Grille or 183 all of the time.

[quasi axle]

how is playing 183 padding stats that sounds like a good way to kill your stats if anything

[supple scaffold]

@winged barn dude i know that rhm has best camo in the game cause best alfa gun with but low mobility so in wt tier 9 version it has camo, it has turret 360 degree and it has mobility so its op against all heavys, if you spot lately, its gone and again shotted you, its not fair. Instead mobility, it needs camo rate nerv so its acceptable. T 95 , already slow tank and armored bit if you chose consumables, icts also a little time faster but still acceptable. Wt is so op, even better than grille

[golden turret]

The only things that really need nerfing on the waffle is the removal of the god consumables and slower speed. Then it’s all cool

[elfin marlin]

first you wankers ruined 183 and now the waffle is to OP. why don't you deal with the fact that a tank is what it is. you all know where they will go to snipe or what it's next sniper spot will be. act on that knowledge. smasher and annihilator are the most OP tanks in the game and yet if you know how to attack them they are easy to kill.

[sharp saddle]

It is what it is because the Waffle is just another example of Wargaming’s questionable balancing decisions.
It never needed special consumables in the first place, but was given it anyway because Wargaming like to give solid tanks these consumables to push them up even more.

[dense walrus]

skill issue
try penning more than a singular shot

[feral sandal]

ñ

[gleaming apex]

McLaren_F1_GTR98#1954 has been warned.

[shell pawn]

Now for more controversial take: FV215b should get some buff. /s

[rare sleet]

that's not controversial that's obvious

[rare sleet]

its hard to see sarcasm and I don't expect much sarcasm in this chat

[last shadow]

I don't expect much sarcasm in this server
There, fixed it

[scarlet fjord]

No and soon it will be one of the better heavies after 8.2

[sinful basalt]

They should buff wz120

[twin egret]

Idea:
Should external pieces on tanks that are neither spaced nor primary armour (like the boxes on the sides such as on the Churchill GC, Cheiftain Mk. 6; as well as the wooden logs on russian tanksb plus mamy other things) be converted into Spaced Armour?

[twin egret]

Yeah but HE tho

[quasi tiger]

Yeah that would ruin HE shells

[twin egret]

As if HE shells weren't already like easy to use. Give players a challenge

[remote oriole]

Spall liner and armour buffs disagree

[outer glen]

#remove spall liner from wt

[mental pasture]

I felt that

[hidden tangle]

Wow they delete my suggestion. Smh.

[uneven narwhal]

Probably answered earlier or it didn't follow to rules
Also wrong channel

[gleaming apex]

Jollysavage#6124 has been warned.

[gleaming apex]

Jollysavage#6124 was muted

[outer glen]

Lol sad anyway buff conqueror turret armor and tort armor when

[lofty mist]

conq is fine

[real bison]

tort is honestly sad

a sad tank for a mediocre line

[empty nexus]

Tortoise has a great gun, worst armour ever. Works Kinda against tier 8’s, even then the cupola doesn’t help, and for T9 and 10 the cheeks are paper.

[leaden flare]

The cupola can be penned by the t 43 which is the lowest pen tank for T7 if you don't consider not top guns

[nimble zodiac]

Boom, KV-13 and T-34-85 Rudy step in
As well as M4/FL10, and AMX 13 75
And Smasher if it feels

[ebon glade]

Speaking of smashers low pen, yesterday I saw a smasher rage cuz he couldn’t pen the front of a tiger 2. He Called the tiger a hacker lol

[final meteor]

Proves the IQ of smasher players is 1000

[versed tide]

Tort is just a bit too slow imo

[light ivy]

All the tort needs is a 20/30+mm to the super structure and keep the sides and the Cupola as they are, because the tort have 10 degrees of gun dep which would make it difficult to pen

[drowsy plaza]

?

You can farm a Tort in a Comet

A tank not exactly known for stellar pen and two tiers lower.

They really just need to remove the cupola or increase the cupola armor then it could actually get some benefit from using angles and/or depression

[winged barn]

I don't care about the hatch
Why would I shoot at that when larger areas are green?
Weakspots are good. It prevents just completely stomping on whatever is in front of it.
When an equal tier heavy doesn't even really need effort to pen most of the tank we have a problem.
Even if you remove the cupola the rest of the tank remains green.
I would greatly prefer leaving is perfectly penetrable hatch, and making the rest of the armor on the level of a badger.

Leaving a weakspot would keep it from being immortal against tier 8s while being able to still be effective in higher tier matches because it could hide the hatch.

The absence of a hatch on the turtlemk1 is a perfect example of why removing the hatch on the tortoise is a bad idea.

Their test version was effectively immortal frontally which the balancing team realized was a bad idea (thankfully)

The introduced version has a pathetic excuse for armor that doesn't really work in any situation, making it useless for taking hits.

[dense oyster]

Foch 155 Balancing IMO Suggestion

alpha 640dmg HE alpha 800 HEAT alpha 560

AP pen 280mm HE pen 65mm HEAT pen 370mm

Clip reload 20sec with 100% crew but no equipment or provisions

18.7sec with provisions.

Inter-clip reload 7 seconds

DPM AP 2988 HE 3735 HEAT 2614

Overall DPM Nerf but it would make the tank have a unique part to play on the battlefield which it is lacking.

[nimble zodiac]

3241 DPM with AP, no? 🤔
Well that’s the provisions DPM
2844 without 🤔

[dense oyster]

It needs something, it was my 1st tier 10 ( 1002battles now ) but it's lackluster. if you want speed and armour get a obj268, if you want autoloader get a fv4005, its does not have a reason to play it, I am happy with WG nerfing it (DPM to say 2000 worst case) as long as they give it a purpose 👍

[thick rover]

Foch lackluster..?

[languid bridge]

you guys have to realise not every tank can be the best tank smh, theres always going to be tanks that arnt as good

[quasi axle]

but there shouldn't be tanks that aren't as good?

[formal whale]

Ok but Foch is 268 and 4005 combined then

[languid bridge]

theres always going to be tanks that arnt as good you cant do anything about it. They try to balance it the best they can

[quasi axle]

if there are tanks that aren't as good you can just buff them?

[bronze osprey]

man do be right about that. Tortoise's armor is basically useless against same tier tank, making it a glass cannon. But wait it's slow so you have to stay closer to your team, and also to use your gun to its fullest extent. BUT WAIT, you cant because your armor is only really good against tier 7's which it can't even face.

It's just where dose this fit. It's a glass cannon, but its best used in cqc against heavy tanks.

On top of that a few updates ago they buffed the cheeks of the jagtiger, saying it was necessary for its close engagement fighting. When most people use it as a sniper. And proceed to do nothing with tortoise.

It's just sad.

[formal whale]

I agree completely, something should be done abt tortoise armor

[thorny mirage]

Wdym? That's foch stat before the nerf

[empty nexus]

NO. It’s fine as it is. NO again. It is a unique tank in the sense of it being an aggressive TD, Like a 263 but French and has more alpha @dense oyster I have a 268, and I prefer the Foch, better armour, better mobility, And more DPM. Similar amounts of penetration and accuracy

[full token]

Maybe they just want to keep the Fv183 grind awful to discourage people from getting to the 183

[uneven narwhal]

Yes we don't want any more 183s

[lofty mist]

the foch is completely balanced as it is. the tank is only really super strong if u know how to angle the armour and when to push and when to rotate. it’s all about isolating targets and brawling wise. you can’t just blind yolo in and expect to survive, there is a strategy behind the plays. you only pick fights u know u can win and only go for isolated targets. the foch can’t fight multiple angles, you have to keep your enemies ahead of you. i personally love the foch play style and find it to be quite interesting and enjoyable to play in its current state

[jagged crescent]

im almost certain that this is basically Foch pre-rework

[leaden flare]

Staying close to the team is already a challenge because even the super heavys are faster then you

[real bison]

it does have something

it has speed, armour, and an autoloader, you can keep up with MTs, you can bounce shells (even more if you know how to bait with the cupola’s) and you can quickly remove 1k HP. Unlike the 4005, a Foch 155 can be spotted, and not get as screwed up. Unlike a 268, the Foch 155 doesn’t rely on trollish armour plates to bounce. I can say, after many battles in each, that the Foch hull armour bounces more reliably

if anything, the stock gun needs a buff to RoF and pen to actually make it useable

[leaden flare]

A 268 can also get spotted and not killed even easier then a Foch imo

The hull on Foch only works against ap prammo just butters through and angling isn't really possible due to weak sides that easily get penned

[bronze osprey]

that don't really do anything when everyone already has it, now dose it?

yea there are, and it still ain't stoppin em, so whats the point even if that is WG's plan. It's not stopping people from grinding to it, all it's doing is just making the tier 9 shit tier for tier compared to tier 8

[full token]

There’s always new players

[real bison]

no no, it’s called random MM

nice “screenshot” btw

[leaden flare]

if your aim is as good as your photo skills then im very sorry for you

[tidal palm]

That's litirally my first tier 10

[real bison]

maybe because it’s a highly influential “do-it-all” tank?

@prisma shuttle you must realise everyone gets games like this?

@tidal palm oh no your first tier X tank that is incredibly strong at almost everything is getting nerfed for being incredibly strong at doing everything

[prisma shuttle]

U can see damage and xp that is enough to call

[safe rapids]

It’s stupid strong. I actually think it was nerfed well. Now the FV….smh. Same with the kran nerf.

[leaden flare]

well somewhat but still this isnt mm complaints

[versed tide]

Batchat buff to 2.5 interclip like how has this not happened

[remote oriole]

Because it’s unnecessary

[golden turret]

2 sec interclip

[hollow basin]

Why is the M-VII-Yoh speed capped at the same speeds of the T29?

When it has a better engine and slightly less weight than the T29?

[bronze osprey]

why buff the interclip, and not just 3x350, with 3 sec interclip

yea but its still a even worse tvp right now

[quasi axle]

because then it's just a worse tvp clip basically

[uneven narwhal]

Crybabies not allowed smh

[safe rapids]

T29 needs super consumables removed, because Yoh is still useless because T29 literally is more mobile with the super speed boost. Nerf the DPM, traverse, and even top speed of T29 or buff Yoh DPM and top speed.

[full token]

No, just buff the T29 dpm again

[unique scaffold]

@prisma shuttle try reading the pinned messages. Thanks.

[limpid sundial]

.

[serene pebble]

War gaming, listen carefully. You are to nerf: Wt auf 4, griller, and is-3. Buff armor on amx 120. It is not realistic armor. Please open your eyes.

[uneven narwhal]

IS-3 nerf lol

[quasi axle]

grille nerf lol

[golden turret]

Says is-3 needs nerf when equal tier tanks can pen its entire front

[rancid trellis]

Only thing they should do for the grille and really the whole line is remove spall liner actually should be removed for all TDs that have it punish em more for running to the front lines like they do

[full token]

Yeah, spall liner needs removal imo

[unique scaffold]

“Happy” wouldn’t be to happy if that was to take place because he runs grills in the front lines

[uneven narwhal]

Only the tanks that need it should get it, not the entire line
Like why does WT even need it, or the Ret Cal
Same with the Conway why do you need a spall liner on that lol

[golden turret]

Cuz Conway actually has at least some armor and the ability to use HESH

[rancid trellis]

@unique scaffold well tell happy I’m sorry but my opinion remains the same, shouldn’t be on the front line lol

[frail silo]

Having some armor actually means it doesn't need spall liner

[golden turret]

that's what i meant by "it actually has some armor"

[full token]

the way you phrased it made it look like you were giving him a reason for ‘why do you need a spall liner on that lol’

[signal charm]

.

[umbral thistle]

I know talking about buffing prems and collectors is annoying but I just wanna say the pen on amx 30b is shet

[gentle isle]

imo the pen is fine but the dpm and the huge cupola make it useless compared to the stb and the buffed patton

[hollow basin]

It's easier to just buff the M-VII-Yoh a bit than mess around with the T29.

Removing the super boost would do nothing to the T29.

"Oh no, I can't go a bit faster for 15sec on my already good mobility HT..."

"Anyways, let me control this ridge."

[unique scaffold]

Saying the T29 needs a nerf because the Yoh is bad is just wrong. What does the T29 do better than the yoh? 1. turret 2. gun handling, the Yoh has better armour on the hull and dpm on the gun. What we learn is that the yoh is better on flatter ground (it's still good on a hill becuase -7 and a rounded hull that becomes an autobounce unlike t29) and at any range due to better accuracy and better dpm, yoh also has good sides compared to t29 so it can sidescrape much more effectively. Overall we see that Yoh is a more dynamic tank but T29 is better when hulled down.

[quasi axle]

Saying the T29 needs a nerf because the Yoh is bad is just wrong.
But saying the t29 needs a nerf is not wrong 😀 👍

[safe rapids]

Yoh has worse DPM. It is also not a side scraping tank, the side armor is quite thin. T29 is actually decent at side scraping because of all those thick tracks that absorb hits. It’s also irrelevant that the upper plate is better because the lower plate is massive. T29 has a tiny lower plate and still has good hull armor so it’s more effective at blocking shots.

[unique scaffold]

T29 does not have good hull armour and on a slope they have the same effective upper plate thickness but yoh has no hull machine gun, the yoh is meant to be worse at hull down as it's gun and mobility are both better and you cannot sidescrape well in a t29, it's sides are much weaker and worse angled than yoh's.

@quasi axle I haven't had any issue with them but it's wr is quite high on blitz stars, then again tiger 1 has 50% wr (2nd worst tier 7 ht wr) and it's the best tech tree heavy imo

[safe rapids]

T29 has 76mm sides, and thick tracks that absorb hits. It’s much easier to hit the more exposed, 55 mm sides of a Yoh. Open armor inspector and look yourself. It’s got same top speed as T29, just better power to weight and traverse. The turret is huge and the sides are very thin. AND the yoh has worse DPM. It’s good to use it as a support vehicle, almost like a TD with meh armor. Then it can clean up the enemies by slow flanking. It’s not terrible but it does take a lot more skill to play than a T29. Should mention the gun only has better aim time by a bit, but the DPM is worse.

[unique scaffold]

I thought T29 has 1.8k dpm, in that case I guess I was wrong but the yoh has better accuracy, on paper the T29 has 76mm sides but in reality the rear half is 51mm like the T34 and the tracks aren't thick enough there

[safe rapids]

Yeah, but your angle will be a bit more extreme there. Still, the tracks are still big enough to take the hits.

[drowsy plaza]

Yoh turret is trash compared to T29 and it can’t sidescrape because the turret gets penned way before the gun is exposed.

Even if you remove the Super speed boost the 29 is a superior tank for just about anything

[mental pasture]

Talking about T29. If WG brings another series of unnecessary buffs that none asked for, I'd like that the target to be more tech tree tanks like they did in T29.
It's way less worse to have an op tech tree tank than an overbuffed premium.
Tech tree can receive nerfs everytime when they notice "Hm, I guess we actually buffed it in a dumb way", but premiums...

Yep. I say it can be nerfed because there's no "uh, but it's a premium, we don't nerf premiums". If it'll be nerfed someday, it's a different history.

[nimble zodiac]

Cept it isn't

[winged barn]

You can say that but the t29 still has not been nerfed

[little quarry]

I would pick T29 over Yoh all day.

Yesterday Yoh grinding was really hard, pretty rough i would say (lost like 7 matches in a row)

[unique scaffold]

my stats in both, I really sucked in T29 but maybe I should get it back, found yoh fun but maybe new tank syndrome

[mental pasture]

Hm, I actually took some time to verify the next update and looks promising. It's basically the "medium tank update" that I've talking about time ago. I still expect a general view range nerf in heavies, but what I'm seeing now is enough.
Even Panzer 4 S. is getting armor buffs in turret and hull fronts

[deft obsidian]

Ho Ri T.II buff please? Why tier IX always this depressing, beside Asia server is full of clown using Ho Ri T.II is literally lose streak maker and can you please make a good move by buffing some sort of this trash tank. I know I'm a F2P player but, PLEASE make this game enjoyable not a stressful circus

[silent hare]

When ATGM back on sheridan for all mode?

[quasi axle]

Never

[deft obsidian]

Why?

[quasi axle]

Wasn't talking to you and bad team ≠ bad tank

[outer glen]

Never gonna happen

@deft obsidian hori t.2 already got buffed recently they buffed the speed

[uneven narwhal]

No thanks

[empty nexus]

Nerf M-VI-Yoh After shot dispersion and aiming time.
This would result in short range Fights the gun would unload as it currently does in under 2 seconds, however at medium range it would unload at 3-4 seconds as you would need to aim in the second shell, and at long range it would unload at 6-7 seconds as Aiming the second shell in would take even longer.
Tanks become popular if they’re OP(or a meme) and the fact that this tank is new, Heavily used in tournaments and the second most played tank in the game suggests that the tank is in need of a nerf. If the tournament meta tanks are being nerfed then the Yoh should’ve been a part of the nerf

[slim trellis]

Reducing the dispersion of every tank by a quarter or giving every tank the dispersion consumable might actually make the game fun. It really sucks to take an advanced position with clear shots and miss everything because you get terrible rng

[golden turret]

By itself, you can annihilate a Yoh. If you’re playing something like the Ho-Ri or Object 263 you can out DPM them all day.

[uneven narwhal]

That's the thing Yoh does not need the DPM when it's got that 900 alpha delivery in under 2s people can barely react in 2s and if you get tracked, even worse
Also got 10deg gun depression with good turret armor

You may argue that it's hatches and gun exists but can you really shoot the hatches or gun that are small weak spots when the Yoh is constantly wiggling back and forth and only exposes itself for 2s?

[remote oriole]

I think all it would do is make the game even more tryhard

[burnt venture]

Ok the Yoh is not OP, let's get that straight here. It's got certain drawbacks like a long reload time and weakspots that screw it over. But I do agree that the mechanic itself with the two shot gun doing 900 in literally 1.7 seconds is completely broken and gives enemies zero time to react, making it impossible to counter if the YOH player knows what he is doing. You only need about 2 seconds of exposure time, in which most players cannot run away or even turn towards your gun while they lose 900 HP (which is like 1/3rd of a heavy's HP)

Increasing dispersion is also never the way to go about balancing tanks. Accuracy should be used as a SUPPLEMENT to balance tanks, not the ONLY WAY through which tanks are balanced. An accuracy nerf is basically an RNG nerf and really does nothing except make the tank more annoying to play. When WG does an accuracy nerf, it really means "we know this tank is OP in other ways, so this is what we nerf because it's easier to just make the tank more annoying to play vs. actually balancing it."

Nerfing accuracy instead of increasing the cancerous 1.7 sec intraclip is the same as doing band-aid patches by WG, it does nothing to stop the YOH from being broken. The YOH's big gun on the tier IX and X need to be fundamentally changed, or they will remain really broken.

[uneven narwhal]

Yeah the gun is the broken part of the tank because you are pumping out 183 level alpha reliably while being comfortable hulldown
Also the non-permatrackability
Not a big deal going 4kmph backwards yes but it is when you are around a corner

[full token]

Nerf the intraclip rather than just letting it be the same in a close range battle and hurting it for longer range. 1.7s doesn’t need to exist for any range. The tank could do with a buff somewhere else if the intraclip nerf is too harsh

[golden turret]

when people forget that the 183 exists

[full token]

The Yoh has nowhere near the issues the 183 has

[versed tide]

After playing the 3v3 4v4 and 2v2 tourneys yoh has like way to much dpm with the 3 shot it like destroys krans with just the amount of dpm it has, I think 2 shot is fine it relies on stupidity to work but the 3 shot just has way too much dpm imo

[sharp saddle]

The 183 sacrifices everything to have the alpha it has.

[burnt venture]

you say the three shot has too much DPM but the T57 heavy hits harder with more DPM. 300 alpha on a heavy is a pretty heavy price to pay, and the HEAT does like 250 which is a joke to other heavies lol

The three shot is just fine because it doesn't have the alpha to really bleed enemies out in comp. A high DPM tank usually performs better in those smaller scenarios for 4v4 tournies anyway lol

[leaden flare]

man M60 mobility is so terrible and it gets nothing for it
worse dpm then russian counterparts
less armor
less accuracy
bigger weakspots
almost smae HE dmg even tho the base alpha of the gun is 40 above the russians

at least its getting buffed in the next update

[drowsy plaza]

@versed tide tanks are not balanced for the 2v2, 3v3 or 4v4 modes. It’s possible to setup some very lethal combos due to the HP of a limited number of tanks. We won’t be discussing Balance of anything in those modes or other special modes here.

[mental pasture]

Exactly. It's funny how some people tolerate 183 but not yoh

[uneven narwhal]

Because the 183 has a 20s reload with only one shot, you miss that you're done, horrible dispersion, bad armor, bad speed, non-fully traversable turret

Yoh on the other hand has 2 shots with good dispersion values so you can miss one but still have a chance to deal 450 damage, decent armor, decent speed, fully traversable turret, more HP

[drowsy plaza]

You can’t say 900dmg is even close to the fiasco that 183 HESH is.

And if the Yoh goes to HEAT

[empty nexus]

I prefer not to get slapped by an OP 900 damage in under 2 seconds when it takes a 50B 3 seconds to do 800

[slim trellis]

That happens anyway

[vagrant compass]

I think, amx cdc need a speed buff like 5 km/h more to be interesting to play, it has the power ratio but 60kmh is not great compared to it

[ivory quiver]

The real question is whether WG will remove mines from t10 pubs 😩

[leaden flare]

Pls don't still my fav map😂

[versed tide]

I love mines but

[leaden flare]

I'm fine with a mines rework to balance out certain spots since one side has very obvious advantages

So make the map bigger so meds can actually flank around instead of being forced into the Hillfight

[frail silo]

Yeah and when does it actually even use that effectively?
The yoh is infinitely more effective with the AP while losing nothing to do that type of damage.

[versed tide]

I mean 183 ap still does the same amount of damage while having more pen

[winged barn]

But has no accuracy, no armor, no gun depression, no full turret rotation, a rear mounted turret, and it doesn't get the added benefit of not being tracked.

All of that traded for pen. Lol no.
Bad trade

Ah, I forgot the yoh also has a hp pool

A rear turret with no gun depression or ability to shoot off the rear absolutely kills any flexibility

And HESH is insanely unreliable. It pains me to see all the easy ap pens that people have thrown away for 300 damage

[mental pasture]

These aren't exactly AP factors, but cannon and turret factors. 183 also have the right to HESH with the biggest possible alpha n the game. I see this as a factor that should be considered and put into the measure.

Tell me, Mr. Larks, what's the huge problem of a rear turreted tank in Wotb? You probably will say that it'll make you have less angle of vision while peeking and perhaps showing more of the hull in order to shot. But have you thought about peeking in a sidescrape position? Not to block shots, but to expose less of the hull in order to shot.
I suppose you've thought so at some point of your gameplay, you're a very good player after all.

The biggest 2 benefits for HESH over AP (aside from the alpha) are; 1- The possibility to do splash damage with high effective power due to high penetration for a HE mechanic, and 2- It have the fear factor. Who doesn't get charge with adrenaline and the "attack or flight" effect after a good HESH in the face?

And because of that fact last 2 facts stated above plush the high alpha and penetration values, now I state that I see 183 as a more toxic vehicle only and exclusively because of cannon's damage potential.

In other words: YOH are annoying, but getting 1200 damage in one click is way worse.

[leaden flare]

You can still fairly reliably hit shots in FV
Rear turret is somewhat better for 183 then mid tank since it's not fully rotatable so it's not as easy to circle
You have the hesh option with huge module DMG plus the fear factor

Yoh is bigger for sure and also has its fairly easy to hit weakspots
Both tanks are toxicn

[mental pasture]

That was my most formal text at this server by far. I'm impressed.

[rare sleet]

Alot of people stick around a corner front first in 183 which is stupid i dont see why people dont use the 183 more effectively with the rear turret

[mental pasture]

I honestly prefer back turreted tanks

[winged barn]

Reversing out is great and all until you come across areas (like sand dunes) that make you use elevation because you backed up. If you do try to back up, you end up losing a lot of elevation which shows the roof, which gives enemies a shot on you long before you can return fire.
Rear mounted turrets that cant turn around are not just hard to play on a ridge, the become completely ineffective.

The only time it is actually useful to back out is against a vertical wall where everything (except a maus) will do poorly. Every other situation a frontally mounted turret is a great benefit.

The wt is great because it can completely turn its turret and have basically nothing showing.

The 183 has to expose a large amount of its paperness to enemies, making it horribly difficult to find an idiot idiotic enough to completely ignore it.

This is just in response to you question of why I hate rear turreted tanks

Rear turret kills flexibility, and I like flexibility

[mental pasture]

Well, I can say that it's a "not at all". A peek and boom based in a sidescrape position makes trollish angles and expose less of the hull, so only your side (which will be very angled) and half of your turret appears.

We find ourselves in a "positive points vs negative points", and what we know is that rear turrets are bad on sandy terrain, but useful in cities. I'm a guy that likes the urban warfare (Himmelsdorf is my favorite map for a reason), So I tend to see rear turrets as an advantage. Rear turrets increase your chances to still alive in cities or behind covers. I like it.

[frail silo]

The only people who actually bounce an fv are idiots.
And it only happens in auto bounce Angles so yeahhhh no.
FV sacrifice everything for a shell that it cannot even consistently hit.
Yoh doesn't, Yoh can consistently out trade you with the 900 gun.
Oh and nobody actually tolerates the FV, i think we have seen how many times a replacement has been proposed.
But the tank is absolute trash.
So yeah using it as a point to somehow prove that the Yoh' s 122mm is ok is kinda moot.

[mental pasture]

"The only people who actually bounce an FV are idiots"
You overestimate wotb community

[minor minnow]

I like to think that I’m not an idiot, quite the opposite in fact and I still get the occasional bounce when I shoot a 183, not because of intentional aim but because my shot may hit the gun or surprisingly strong mantlet

[rare sleet]

Sometimes I get too comfortable at shooting 183 and just aim anywhere and when playing lower pen tanks i get the slight ricochet on the upper plate of the 183 or a stupid shot trolls me

[mental pasture]

^

[twin egret]

@untold hamlet 👎 🚫🇷🇺

[nimble zodiac]

<@&481447501690568709> let's just deal with it right here =)

[empty nexus]

What’s this about?

[frail silo]

Ah yes. The reliable very consistent troll armor that doesn't entirely depend on your luck.

[quick lichen]

Air strike inbound

[unique scaffold]

I just woke up

[quick lichen]

Same

[unique scaffold]

It’s all yours man

[quick lichen]

Aww ❤️

[gleaming apex]

8_DPOBOCEK_8#5197 was muted

[unique scaffold]

That works

[quick lichen]

I very much enjoyed that tank. Is8 is just a gun and turret so what do you expect?

[remote oriole]

Excuse my confusion, but which tank did you enjoy? The WZ-111 1-4, the WZ-110 or the IS-8?

[quick lichen]

111-1-4 and is8. They are a bit trickier than the tier 8 or 10 versions but are still fun

[safe rapids]

Watch the HisRoyalFatness live stream on the WZ-113 branch. He talks about the 111 1-4 and how to play it.

[mental pasture]

It's indeed troll. But none said it's reliable or that don't depend on luck.

[frail silo]

so what are you arguing exactly?
the reason why people don't tolerate the yoh as much as the FV is the huge difference in consistency while basically offering the same damage output(at least for standard rounds)

[mental pasture]

Read it all again. I'm saying that the armor is trollish and the gun is the reason to play 183. Now you can understand which is actually the intolerable part of the tank.

[mental pasture]

Actually the E5 was and still very popular. That nerf is minor and hardly will change anything, they just nerfed to say "you see? We care about balancing T10. People complained about E5 being too good and we showed that we are watching it."

[remote oriole]

To be honest I am ecstatic about the E5 being nerfed because their versatility and popularity amongst tryharders just makes for very stressful but skill-less battles 😄

Maus actually takes vastly more skill than E5 because you have to know where you need to go at the start of the battle (can’t just speedboost to the other side of the map) and because you actually need to angle your armour instead of mindlessly pointing your tank in the direction of the enemy

Also, discrediting my opinion as hypocritical based on something someone else said is hilarious at best and sad at worst

[real bison]

thank god speed boost is getting nerfed

you ever just cruise along with MTs at the start of the battle

[mental pasture]

Well, as like I see in blitzhangar, the only direct nerf is literally a 1 second reload nerf. If the speed boost is also getting nerfed, then it's something indirect, situational and won't even affect your gameplay if you don't use it.

I'm very excited about 8.2, it's the first step forward to the progress, it's a signal that soon the medium meta will come back. I like it.

I never had problems with Yoh tanks, but I had problems with E5 and IS-4 sweaty tryhards, and boom, they're getting nerfed.

[unique scaffold]

agreed

yh they are gonna destroy the E5 in the new update but people don’t see it as a big deal and while the tank did need a nerf they just completely went over the top with it. They should have just simply yanked away the consumables war gaming really big brained themselves this time

[quasi axle]

🥳 rip heavies

[distant river]

They deserve it :)

[quasi axle]

I agree

[remote oriole]

I can’t help but feel that you didn’t say much of substance and just went on to rage against medium drivers as usually. I don’t know what you hope to achieve like that but it’s firstly factually incorrect and secondly pointless, because an argument is logically true or false independent of who states it.

Now to your statements with any substance:
“If you have problems […] you are not that good of a player, especially if you are a medium. Maybe for mediums E5 seems strong […]”

I don’t even know what to say but you outright contradict yourself. You are just bad especially if you are a medium, but it might seem strong to mediums? How does that work? Either you are especially bad if you struggle against the E5 in a medium or the E5 is strong against mediums, not both.

Looking at the E5 even without the super consumables, you have a very strong turret (yes, you can pen the cheeks and ring with prammo but you have to hit that first) and a strong upper hull. This is paired with good mobility and a good gun. Even before the super consumables this tank was extremely versatile and borderline op, and the super consumables only worsened the situation. This situation demanded a nerf because this tank could easily change the outcome of battles and dominate the battlefield, as evident by it’s massive popularity amongst tryharders. Anyone who argues that it’s currently weak or balanced is out of touch with the game if you ask me.

To cut this short, the tank needed a nerf and either they could nerf everything a bit or take away one of its advantages, and in this case they took away its firepower. This nerf and its execution is both warranted and reasonable.

Pointing at other issues won’t change that this nerf is good and justified.

[mental pasture]

Basically "Oh no, a 1 second reload nerf will ruin my favorite barely op tank!!!1!1!11! Why don't they nerf Yoh instead???? Greedy WG noooooo"

Yes it's a good decision. I'm a major heavy and TD player and hell, the heavies need to be put in their places, everyone here is tired of people doing double platoon in Maus or IS-4 in order to stat pad. We don't want a World of Heavies Blitz.

I have not seen even one single puppy complaining about Maus HP nerf, and if so, must be another heavy spammer.

So what that WT didn't get a nerf? 8.2 is focused in heavies and mediums, we perhaps will see a TD update soon.

It doesn't seem that big tho, this turret transverse can be corrected through the very good hull transverse
Ah ok, thanks

[full token]

The tank also loses some turret traverse

Yes. I was just letting you know the dpm nerf wasn’t the only one

[leaden flare]

To me he's known to make no good points
Like he isn't addressing the FV nerf that is worse then the E5 or Maus
Maus imo didn't really need a nerf

He prob has the skill issue that be always gets penned in his heavys as he ranted a lot about his vk72 cheeks getting penned by mediums all the time

[versed tide]

E5 nerf is needed plus it does still have the super consumables with reactive sandbags and super speed boost so it can still be competitive after nerf, I think he thinks that e5 is going from average tank to bad tank instead of op tank to good tank. One second of reload won’t kill off e5 it’s still one of the better guns at tier 10 with good accuracy etc, fv215b is getting hit the most in the update not e5 so not sure why that’s even a conversation

[stray verge]

Just remove the super consumables and provisions. There. The E5 nerf doesn't have to be "Xaxaxaxa, we give E5 IS-7 DPM" just because Wargaming wanted super consumables and provisions.

Same case to the 215b and Kran to a lesser extent. The DPM nerf on 215b and E5 tanks were absolutely not nessesary plus, the 215bs HP pool for heavy standards is pitiful because xaxaxa, sandbags exist. Kran? What is the logic of having half the turret traverse the emil 2 has?

What wargaming should of done was remove the consumables and provisions on all tanks save maybe 4005, give the 215b more HP and maybe better DPM, and the Kran better mobility

[versed tide]

It was necessary for e5

[vale glen]

I actually don't like the E5 nerf, don't really care for anything else, bcuz i know I'll somehow get used to it. And also same goes for 215b. I really like those 2 tanks, but with this they won't be as good as they were. But as i said, i guess I'll get used to it.

[gleaming apex]

Kai#1679 was banned

[fervent locust]

pls wg bring the kv2 back to its origial state

[unique scaffold]

Good

KV-2 is fine as is

Dude. You know I can’t let you post that here no matter how much I may agree @dense walrus

[drowsy plaza]

@candid steeple you know if the heavy nerfs are too deep WG will just buff then a bit right? The E5 was a better med at key game points than most meds. It absolutely needed nerfs. The Maus and IS-4 have needed nerfs since BEFORE the heavy HP buff.

[mental pasture]

E5 since the begging of the game does everything that a medium can do, but better

It started to make the medium work even better after the turret get a new model

It's a problem deep in the tank, the HP buff and op consumables just make the problem worse

[full token]

What if a heavy tank driver says they want the heavies nerfed and give the same reasons as these medium tank players you want to blame everything on? (like WG really based their changes on just the requests of some players)

[unique scaffold]

4 words: Marks of Excellence when?

[winged barn]

I dunno about that, but the +10kph and p/w ratio boost definitely allowed it to directly compete with meds

I gotta say, for now I am completely with herowounds on the result that he wants, but not how he it trying to reason things.

Balancing tanks around consumables is just plain stupid. Remove the consumables first, then see what to do next is a great way to do it.

[mental pasture]

Well, it may be a bit slower than the usual medium, but in trade it got a powerful gun and extreme hull down abilities.

Not at all, there would still have giant balance problems among them. Take IS-4 as example@versed tide

That's truth, the unnecessary consumables still an evil that must be purged. @leaden flare @winged barn

[versed tide]

honestly heavies would be fine if their hp was just nerfed a bit

[leaden flare]

I'm also with u on the consumable part
Heros reasons are just wrong for me it's not p2w it's all about credits and U don't even need prems to get credits
Meds aren't OP, buffing them is okay from what I can tell but I'll see how it'll be next update

@mental pasture I'm not even looking into anything below t9 anymore because it's just a balance mess heavys at t5 and 6 are for me still the most broken

[full token]

I wonder if WG is just unable to remove consumables from specific tanks in the line. Some of the tanks they add it to, it doesn’t make sense why they thought that was even suitable when they use it as a balancing tool rather than something to make a tech tree line be a little unique

[mental pasture]

I must say that there was a few unnecessary buffs in a lot of mediums. Can someone explain who the hell thinks Panzer 4 S. Needs a turret armor buff?
The actual benefit from it is that now the little (-0-) can block a few more shots on the flat plate.

At least it became easier to simp for this tank, best tier 6 medium, lel

[winged barn]

I just waiting for when I can finally get reactive armor on my maus.
Lol.
Invincibility.
balance

@mental pasture I am 90 sure that is a homogeneity change. All of the armor plates on the pz4s gets changed by about that ratio

[full token]

@mental pasture Is it really getting a buff? It would’ve been mentioned if so. It’s not something to leave out of the balance change article. And the armor homogenization removal is also going to cause some of the blitzhangar changes

Blitzhangar isn’t the most reliable. Armor homogenization being removed could have caused those

[twin egret]

🤔 what happened if you enriched the Churchill GC before it became a collector?

[mental pasture]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/835194152328232980/876541353490788442/unknown.png?width=842&height=473
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/835194152328232980/876541446994403358/unknown.png?width=842&height=473
Yep, it's a buff

Perhaps

I suppose that the Armor homogenization already happened at 8.1

[nimble zodiac]

It has not, this is not a buff

[winged barn]

8.1 was trying to make hitskins more accurate 50b noises
8.2 is removing homogenization

[leaden flare]

You mean spaced armor noises🤣
Yes totally not able to pen Sheri sides 😂

[mental pasture]

Ah, ok. I suppose that my supposition was wrong.

[cursive dragon]

Pz iv s's turret armor is strong bruh its like E50M on t6

[unique scaffold]

surveillance is the biggest problem, because the higher layer sees further and layer X sees almost 75% of the map - level 1 tanks should be accurately classified if they see, because it is not possible for a light level X tank to come to the center and see the whole map and where are the enemies going!

[uneven narwhal]

Godzilla had a stroke trying to read this and bleeping died

[jagged crescent]

lizard is kill

[empty copper]

Meaningful Centurion I buff when? Still bottom of the balance charts, no surprise 10mm of front turret armour didn't do anything to help it not suck.

[unique scaffold]

Bring marks of excellence into the game... mans r putting in HD tanks, nice looking tracks all these graphic updates but cant give people who have all the tanks they want something to play for

[minor minnow]

It’s something along the lines of the marks are separate entities on the tanks and the game would have to load all of them regardless of graphics, PBR is only available in the highest settings, so that’s not going to affect lower devices

[rugged patio]

FV215b is the worse heavy tier X but WG nerfs it 👍

[full token]

They thought it would be at the top again if they nerfed the other tanks, which would be reasonable if it werent performing poorly already

[uneven narwhal]

Just remove every super consumable lol, they were a bad idea

Well insulting devs was an even worse idea

[gleaming apex]

HeroWonds#1261 was banned

[fair berry]

Not sure if this is the right place for this question, but I am wondering why matchmaking at tiers <4 takes so long for me. I am +10K battles, but still like to play at tiers 4 and 3. However the matchmaking times for these tiers can sometime exceed 10 minutes for me, and I am not exaggerating. Is this normal and is there anything I can do to make it shorter?

[unique scaffold]

It isn’t the right place. Low tiers have a longer wait if you are a more experienced player. Basically you will be in a holding pattern until you can be matched with other higher battle count players. This is to prevent experienced players from taking advantage of newer players.

[fair berry]

Thanks T-Rex. I agree that makes sense from a balance of skills/experience perspective. Still though, the wait times are absolutely painful...

[hearty steeple]

The reason wg isn't bringing MoE is because they feel that marks should always be visible to all. While we are getting better tank graphics and shell hitmarks is nothing different than what MoE would be, hitmarks can be disabled for performance.

[gleaming apex]

luffy is cool#6979 was muted

[winged barn]

I don't know where weegee got the idea that they had to always be visible.
It's such a dumb way to do things. What if I don't like the look of moe? I sure would want to turn them off.

[drowsy plaza]

Please take MOE discussion to #general-blitz-discussion it’s not related to balance.

[mental pasture]

Don't say this... The biggest weakness of E50M aside from lower plate is the turret...

[versed tide]

I mean if you have 340 heat it doesn’t have armor in the first place

[mental pasture]

Undeniable

[gleaming apex]

Springtrap#1593 has been warned.

dagamma#5004 was muted

[empty nexus]

Which actually reminds me that the Kran has 375 heat pen (with Cali). - like w h a t, that’s a lot more than many heavies at T10, it’s almost TD level pen

[nimble zodiac]

On par with IS-4 and T110E5

[remote oriole]

The other two op tanks 🙃

[leaden flare]

Kran, e5, is-8, m103, Emil II all of them have the typical heat overkill pen

[sudden path]

Emil 2 has 300 heat pen base

[prisma jetty]

Only 300 base mm of pen, pathetic.

[rancid trellis]

The IS7 feels like it needs a buff of some sort, really all it has going for it is mobility and it can’t really capitalize on using it when it lacks in so many other areas.

[nimble zodiac]

It's balanced, so it feels kind of bad

[prisma jetty]

I mean it has a pretty good turret, nice alpha, pretty good mobility. I don’t really see a problem other than the fact that the IS-4 is better because it’s broken.

[rancid trellis]

Just feels kind of blah tho, doesn’t seem to do anything great, the turret is great but mitigated by the fact that just above the like nose can be penned rather easily. The ammo rack is easily hit from the area I mentioned, doesn’t side scrape reliably. Only viable option I’ve found for playing it is get hull down as best as you can with that 6 degrees and hope they don’t push lol

[unique scaffold]

FV215b didn't deserve a nerf, moreover it deserve some armor buff, this tank is also not so popular among the playerbase and people are skipping this line cause its not that interesting, in my opinion whoever thought it was a good idea to nerf it i hope this person will have pillow warm from both sides, the idea of killing a thing that is already dead is a VERY stupid move.

[thick rover]

Idk they said it's pre-emptive, so there is no use comparing the present state to the changed version

[twin egret]

A warm pillow sounds really good especially during the upcoming fall/winter

[mental pasture]

I like hot chocolate, and you?

[twin egret]

Boiling chocolate.

[dreamy oak]

IS7 is good how it is. Quite strong vs mediums and it has troll armor which can make it difficult for heavies to pen it reliably aswell. I think IS7 is among the best balanced tanks on T10

[uneven narwhal]

IS-7 is just a tricky tank to play IMO
It's got good armor but not against prammo (like every tank in the game)
However it also has a top speed of 50kmph and a gun that hits harder than most heavies
Balanced tank really

[scarlet fjord]

its fast but you need skill to get it rolling and bowling because you need to select the terrain yourself not just mindlessly drive anywhere if you know what i mean the armor is more than enough even out in the open its trollish specially now with the hit skin changes it feels even smoother to use at least thats how i feel
and the gun hits with 460 alpha which is great and above average
ofc it pays for all of those things like its armor has ammo rack problems which if your a good player you can go around that problem its 50 km/h top speed is hard to reach its 460 alpha gun has very poor gun handling and bad pramo pen but all these u can compensate for skill thats why its such a balanced and very good tank

[jagged crescent]

It’s gonna be a lil better too after all the other heavies get nerfed. Speaking of which what’s the point of driving a 215b when the chieftain’s practically gonna do everything better now.

[uneven narwhal]

Ammorack is not a problem
It's just highly over-exaggerated due to the memes
E5 and Soviet and Chinese meds have a weaker ammorack
E5 may have more module HP but it's ammorack is easier to hit as it's behind paper armor

No one talks about those ammoracks and focuses solely on the IS-7s because it's memed on by anggael which is completely fine by itself but it's not when people start to take it seriously

[scarlet fjord]

the problem is average and below players always cry about the ammo rack and it becomes "common knowledge" but its a big misconception the people that blow up in IS-7's are not so great players not running equipment nor do they have the crew skills or even individual skill to fix that problem its easily fixable its just most ppl dont know how so they complain and since many not great players run IS-7 because its forgiving thats why you see so many ammo racks on IS-7's

[sudden path]

Is7 will probably be stronger this next patch with all the other heavy nerfs

[quick lichen]

The Is4 nerf really won’t be noticed much so I don’t think the is7 will make up that much ground to it. 215b and e5 though, yes

[hollow tundra]

The 215b didn't need a nerf whatsoever, it's balanced, just everyone that plays it is either a pro or they have seen a vid on how to play it

[novel nimbus]

Well maus didint deserve the hp nerf, but it did deserve the dispersion nerf cuz it encourages nubs to go on frontline instead of sniping

[quick lichen]

Yes it did

[drowsy plaza]

I think most folks are absolutely fine with the Maus nerfs. They where long overdue like the IS-4 nerfs

[quick lichen]

There’s no reason the Maus needs 1200 hp over mediums

[novel nimbus]

Why not he is thiccest boi

[quick lichen]

#devs-answers speaks for me

Maus and Is4 have been top 3 90% of the time for the last 3-4 years

They could use actual nerfs

[golden turret]

Maus needed a nerf because simply put, it’s so difficult to kill. If the armor is angled it’s impossible to pen. It has such a stupid amount of hitpoints. IS-4 should not be as strong as it is. I know tank destroyers (some of them at least) can butter through the upper plate without even using gold ammo. On top of that the IS-4 is super mobile. It has like T1 Heavy mobility. Good thing the turret traverse is getting nerfed

[quick lichen]

17* -> 14* won’t feel that bad. You can just traverse the hull with the turret

[leaden flare]

Maus an impossible to pen ?
Have you heard of prammo before ?
I can pen Maus ufp with Maus AP no Cs in a favehug up to a decent angle
You also have a track weakspot
Even a perfectly angles Maus has issues against the typical heavy heat sure it has good HP but also fairly bad dpm
There is few tanks on EU I struggle less with now it'll be a just straigh up worse e100

Maus can't shoot you as long as it's angled as soon as Maus turns it's turret to u it's a easy pen for heabys and tds at least

[golden turret]

You clearly can’t read cuz I said angled and always assume that when I talk about maus, it’s sidescraping. So idk where you got that from.

[quick lichen]

1v1 in a training room

[drowsy plaza]

The issue with the Maus is the fact that dual Mice toons have a near insurmountable HP pool.

[remote oriole]

Reject discussion, return to duelling

[leaden flare]

It's s fact that a perfectly angles Maus won't be able to shoot u and that's as soon as it turns towards you it gets pennable even for standard rounds

Only thing it has is the massive HP pool and slightly above avg alpha

If you fight a Maus in cqc you'll be able to pen its upper plate fairly often from my experience
If it pushes you you can go for the track weakspot and maybe even get it
to stop + DMG in (only if it tries to angle) else pen the lfp

I won't disagree on the fact that 2 of those are some kind of issue but imo it's less the tank and more the MM that puts Maus toons against med toons and stuff like that

[drowsy plaza]

If the Maus has a brain in close quarter it’s going to use its weight to push you around - both giving you damage and pushing you out of good firing positions. Despite its poor DPM, the HP allows it to grind pretty much any tank down at that point. Also it can angle the turret until it’s ready to shoot, thus reducing the DPM issue and giving it an advantage there as well over all but the high alpha heavies.

[uneven narwhal]

Eh not to mention the enemy probably has to use prammo to pen, thus reducing their DPM further
Not to mention you can still bounce or get a non-pen, reducing DPM even further

[leaden flare]

I mean I can't really push you out if you're not somewhat alone and usually you can back up into cover at least that's how I've been dealing with Maus
Idk how you shoot someone in Maus while being angled

[drowsy plaza]

@leaden flare I get that. The difference is you have patience and skill. That’s uncommon in Blitz.

[leaden flare]

Well true people often don't know the spots to pen or how to play at all😂

[plush perch]

same thing with 252u. Despite it's poor dpm and gun handling it's armor is what makes the tank good

[drowsy plaza]

252U has easy cupolas though

[golden turret]

I facehugged an object 252U with my T26E5 and shredded him

[nocturne mauve]

252u is overrated though

[empty nexus]

Tracking it and Circling it will be even easier 😋

[dense walrus]

We already have a way to avoid long losing streaks, it’s called getting good

[full token]

take a break from the game if you lose 10 battles in a row

[leaden flare]

His team wasn't even horrible most of them at least hit 2 - 3 shots

[ebon glade]

Why’d you put this in balance discussion? Do you expect wargaming to somehow “buff” your teams?

[tall ermine]

We expect wg to balance out the mm but it is forbidden to even talk about it anywhere on the server expect general chat

[full token]

It’s forbidden because the MM for regular mode doesn’t need fixing. Everyone gets the same MM, noobs always exist

[winged barn]

Places to complain about match making:

For the pathetic attempt at ratings matchmaking-> #rating-battles

For general whining about not getting carried-> nowhere

Just think, if you team was actually good, you wouldn't have had anywhere near 6k damage

[dense walrus]

In the bin with you MM whiners 🗑

[gleaming apex]

Tapo4ek_shepard#7431 has been warned.

[quick lichen]

Actual places to complain about mm: some other server

[versed tide]

Stop being good return to mm is rigged

[rare sleet]

Yes this, People always say oh just shoot skill rounds and pen. Well you still have to consider all the time you need to spend aiming at a well angled and wiggling maus AND the dpm drop of skill rounds, the chance of ricochet, coupled with the Maus massive HP pool, this makes the Maus incredibly beefy.

[midnight dome]

@TJFbleu#2467 FRONTLINE

[versed tide]

I mean the only times I really bounce maus is from long distance or if I’m playing a med with like 300m of heat and he angles just as I shoot

[flat nova]

Petition to change the FCM -50T tank class to Heavy Tank and add a 120mm gun for it.

[sudden path]

It's not like the maus has nearly impenetrable armor when its angled

Its also not like 340 heat shells are nothing to its 3k hitpoint pool

This is why the maus needed a nerf

[strong oriole]

Guys am I crazy or is wz113 one of the best heavies?! Especially after some of the others got a small nerf?

[sudden path]

No your not crazy

[indigo knot]

Big winners from 8.2 balance changes imo
113, 4202, E50M
Big losers from 8.2 imo
E5, 215b, Leo1, Kran

Meta will stay HT meta most likely

[sudden path]

Exactly
E50m doesnt have nerfed med stats to go with its speed and armor combo
4202 got its biggest weakness fixed
113 will probably wind up being the heavy of choice, at least for comp
Kran will stay competitive though just because of the turret armor and autoloader, the speed boost and turret rotation nerfs wont change it too much
E5 and 215b are dead

[radiant zodiac]

Leo 1 was nerfed?

[drowsy plaza]

No but the other med buffs hurt it.

8.3 Leo 1 DPM buff to 5k 😏

[versed tide]

I just want Leo 1 to have 400 alpha

[lunar niche]

WG will just shave off another 0.2 seconds off its reload lol. That goes for PTA too if it ever got buffed.

[versed tide]

sad 113gft noises

[winged barn]

The kran really doesn't lose much. It will still have absolute control over ridges.
The nerf it gets just punishes it more when it gets isolated.

[glass wharf]

Yep

[golden turret]

Ikr I got people yesterday telling me that maus is easy pen and they were asking to 1v1 me

[quasi axle]

leo 1 buff where 🙏

[leaden flare]

Nobody asked to 1 v 1 you unless you didn't get the joke and I'll stay with what I said, for me Maus is a easy pen and will stay like that

[indigo knot]

Like now it doesn't have much DPM advantage 100-200 in general
Plus I expect more 4202 spam which is its biggest bane
And I feel Leo1 was in way better shape up against tanks like Maus, IS4, E100,Kran in general....E5 was a problem for every Med but now I kinda expect more autoloader HTs and 113,MK6 like spam and bit of more mediums too which makes it hard for it in general

@winged barn Kran I wouldn't say is dead but not a uber tier tank anymore.....HP nerf and that awful turret traverse will definitely affect it quite a bit....tho I would say it deservedly got nerfed....I was sick of seeing E5 and Kran every game

[thick rover]

Spall liner Leo? 😗

[radiant zodiac]

Hell no

[quasi axle]

reactive armor leo 🤩

[uneven narwhal]

Super Speed Boost and Ret Cal Leo
Laser gun going around faster than lights

[thin terrace]

no keys.. someone know why ?

[full token]

i think you live in belgium where crates are banned
The keys are available for me

[thin terrace]

i have box, but not keys

[marble loom]

Man e5 turret and kran so bad it is like they have been damaged

[jagged crescent]

u forgot the m48 and m60, those got dpm buffs and also have the same pen as the leo now

[terse tinsel]

true m60 is the biggest winner

[outer glen]

Since when e3 have a turret

[mental pasture]

Well, the cupola in E3 can be considered as turret.

[drowsy plaza]

Biggest loooooooser in 8.2 —> AMX 30B, as the 4202 can now yolo it and win fairly easily and it cannot run away fast enough.

[quasi axle]

leo 1:

[twin zodiac]

Wait, is the 263’s armor getting nerfed or buffed? Blitz hangar is confusing me

[full token]

The armor is buffed. Strong buff

[untold peak]

30B has always been overshadowed, now it's ultra-overshadowed lol.

Too many tier tens are being powercrept because WG is rebuilding the entire game to fit super consumables, when they don't belong in the game.

[terse tinsel]

yo the 263 dispersion nerf did nothing to the tank s on movement shooting, i have been snapshotted plenty of times by different 263s in different games from over 200 m. like just turn and shoot with that thing.

[remote oriole]

I don’t know, the 30B has quite some popularity among some of the greatest players, because it brings everything to the table that you need (and the cupola is not that big of an issue especially against mobile players, thank to the mobility

[sharp saddle]

I came across several today, made for some good HESH piñatas in my FV4202 lol

[drowsy plaza]

@remote oriole I didn’t mind it before, but now it’s just a farm for 4202’s that are nearly as fast, and can HESH the daylights out of it with 1k more DPM and can ram it too once it’s tracked.

[twin egret]

Buff FV215b! Why Wargaming nerf tank!

[unique scaffold]

nerf smasher pls

Pls improve the armour on KV-2, from 70mm at least to 120mm. (Or its a tank destroyer.)

[dense walrus]

no

[jagged crescent]

no

[grim dawn]

what did u do to autoaim??? pls take it back, whatever u did

[minor minnow]

Gonna start a petition for a Leo with 10k dpm, same mobility and armor but only 1 hp

[jagged crescent]

I hope you guys didn’t change the old auto-aim

[thin oyster]

@grim dawn ikr

This new autoaim system is so bad at leading ur shells. Not to mention the sensitivity on it is also weird. I also hate the way the end result screen looked and the shop. Like noone voted for this nor did WG tell us. I just want my old autoaim back

[jagged crescent]

Wait they changed the arcade/classic auto-aim?!

[twin egret]

I personally don't like the new battle end screen, I personally liked it when the match would linger on for a few seconds allowing me, and other players, to snatch extra damage or an extra kill or more before the battle officially ended. I personally hope they bring that thing back

[sudden path]

30b is fine
Its fast and it has good turret armor
As long as it has those things then it will be decent
I've found that as long as you make quick pokes with horizontal movement then the 30b hatch isnt really an issue
It's when you stop and let people get easy shots on the hatch that it becomes an issue

[untold peak]

It's fun, but it definitely doesn't have good turret armour with its massive cupola. It also has bad DPM, so a tank like Leopard 1 or Obj 140 will tear it apart like nothing.

Not saying its a bad tank, but it will still get ripped to shreds by all other mediums, even TVP since it only has 200 less DPM but also has an autoloader

I'd much rather play Sheridan or Vickers if I wanted a fast support tank

[drowsy plaza]

Go to #maps-discussion if you want to discuss maps

[golden turret]

Mobility wise the AMX 30B is better than everything except the light tanks and the Leo 1. I’d say it’s on the same level as the lights and the Leo 1

[versed tide]

Can we just give 30b stb1 dpm, I really like and still enjoy the tank after 8.2 but e50m and fv4202 are bullying all the other meds

[terse tinsel]

4202 still cant directly face any other tank, and the e50m is still pennable in the turret.

[drowsy plaza]

You need HEAT to do that dipping your already poor DPM.

[terse tinsel]

dosent matter if u dont get penned back

[quasi axle]

but you probably will get penned back

[leaden flare]

E50m has godlike accuracy unlike 30b
The e50m doesn't need to move so it's aimed in
The 30b has to move so it's never fully aimed
Hitting e50m cheeks is almost gambling with RNG since you hit the gun a lot or just miss
E50m can shoot your cupola or you cheeks

[terse tinsel]

try playing with an actual hulldown med like an stb or even an m48 patton . i was replying to the person saying the 8.2 e50m and 4202 are bullying other meds. im not saying that the 30b dosent need a dpm buff

[uneven narwhal]

Just got the 4202 yesterday, not even 85% crew and it's already so strong like 3k average already and 4,5k on the first game pre-buff?
I really don't know why it was buffed but time to abuse it

[quasi axle]

or we can talk about why wg buffed the best performing medium in their balance charts 🙏

[drowsy plaza]

@quasi axle great point. I’m still shaking my head on the 50 M buff. I was only averaging 3.5k in it in the last 6 months - so I guess it needed a buff 😜

I don’t average that in anything else. Close in the T-62A. But still.

[uneven narwhal]

Really confused with the 50M and 4202 buffs NGL

50M in no way needed any buff, it's got good speed, good armor, and a lovely gun
4202 was a high skill cap tank, I really don't wanna see super unicums spamming it now

M48 and M60 buffs were fine

140 needed the buffs more

[quasi axle]

Yep, only reason I can think of why wg did that is the same reason they nerfed the 215b, to (try to) create a new meta

I agree with demi, I don't really think the 50m or 4202 needed a buff but oh well

[leaden flare]

Now M60 is basically a hulldown leo😂

[terse tinsel]

true

[wise zealot]

Wz 113G fake tank OP

[ornate helm]

FV215b heavy nerf was uncalled for

[distant river]

It didn't need a nerf before, but after the other meta heavies were nerfed it would have become pretty meta and WG didn't want that so they stopped it before it happened. It's a logical decision

[terse tinsel]

still these nerfed heavy tanks still have way more health and armor

[latent snow]

This only applies for randoms, in high ratings you need to wiggle a lot to catch heat shells with your manlet.

[stiff edge]

ah yes is4 small nerf kran medium sized nerf with meds getting chunky buffs are going to make the 215b meta again
heavy meta didnt change much at all
yoh, e100, is4, krans, are all still rampant
this update just made some meds better
wg smort

[winged barn]

Let's nerf the comet in preparation for the smasher nerf

This would literally make no sense.
There are far more pressing balance problems than a tank that might become meta after every other heavy gets slapped with a nerf.

[mint void]

Did anyone notice that a very large number of tanks received armor buffs in 8.2? Just noticed on Blitzhangar that a huge amount of tanks seemed better armored. I wonder if the HP nerfs were to force players to rely more on armor/angling and less on HP?

[distant river]

@stiff edge For random battles it didn't change much, but the lineup for tournaments has been changed a lot really. You no longer have the E5 as your replacement for all medium/heavy roles and the 215b was in a good place to fill that gap. WG didn't want to see it in tourneys so it got nerfed 🤷‍♀️

@winged barn Comet hasn't been meta (ever? Idk lol) and isn't in any position close to being meta, there's also no tournaments at tier 7 (thankfully again). It's about how WG is manipulating the tournament team lineup to be more interesting and 215bs yoloing everywhere isn't what they want to see so the majority of players have to deal with an above average tank but below average heavy getting nerfed to be below average.

[gilded aurora]

Pp

[wanton citrus]

Wotb needs to fix the teams

[nimble zodiac]

They have no non-violating way to improve the skills of their players out of battle

It's up to the players themselves to seek information and strategies

[true laurel]

Someone in a clan I'm in (not CLEAR) said that the cupula of the e3 got nerfed. Can anybody else confirm that or did he get some misscomunication. Ok thx 😊

[quasi axle]

It was changed not nerfed? I believe it's still 300mm+ effective armor

[nimble zodiac]

8.1 - 330mm lower, 420mm upper
8.2 - Around 320mm, with weaker sides, HEAT resistant in the middle now

[drowsy plaza]

@mint void it wasn’t a real buff. WG removed the hidden RHA Factor on tanks. So before you may have thought a tank had X mm of armor, but that X was multiplied by the RHA Factor (hidden value) in game - and penetration etc calculated on the sum of that.

[shell carbon]

Smasher is balanced.

[stiff edge]

wg monkes
113 sconq replace e5
smh
or dpm yoh
or just spam more heavies
genius

[stray verge]

E50M didn’t need a buff
WG overdid the M48/M60 buff

140 previously virtually unchallenged in a fast brawly medium now has to face E50Ms with virtually the same mobility and now with better DPM.
Almost no reason to use 62A and STB as the Pattons exist.

[nimble zodiac]

Well I believe they said they wanted just a rotation of apex tanks in tier 10, and the previous apex heavies got their time

[stiff edge]

apex tds when

[jagged crescent]

not really

[stray verge]

Pls buff E50M even more, the tank not good enough.

I no has braincells to use the cracked 3.3k DPM, armor, and mobility that totally do not make the tank easy to use

[mental pasture]

I'll not say that the tank need more nerfs, it didn't need those at first, but how that the mobility got so good if the terrain resistance was just buffed slightly? The transverse got a little nerf too.

[full token]

The traverse isn’t too bad. The mobility buff was kind of big. Around 5+ added to the effective p/w

[twin egret]

Traverse nerf could be a buff in some cased

[thick rover]

This is funny cause people used to say " there is no reason to use Patton when stb exists" ... Both ways people are unhappy

[jagged crescent]

Wym

[twin egret]

You'll like overangle less when positioning

[jagged crescent]

I guess. But It’ll also be harder to recover when someone peaks at you when ur turret isn’t facing them.

[unique scaffold]

i no understand why light tank have armor when have view and more damage per minute as other tanks ? why medium tanks have turret so strong as heavy and speed as light ? why heavy are so fast and to weak without armor ? why TD have no pen and so slow turret traverse ? why high tier is faster / more hp / more alfa damage / see far as low tier ? why gold tank are so strong as level high tanks ? why humans no help others ? why sell ally for free and cry for help when 3 enemy come to kill him --karma return after 15 sec ? why run around all map and die when you spawn ? why sell ally for stupid usless flag ? why play game who give you only hate / and lonely /abandonment --- no help no win /// what you give you get !!

[full token]

Wow I can actually understand this now. I must’ve unlocked some skill point.
Light tanks have the view range and the extra dpm or damage because they can’t be as useful for spotting as they are on WoT PC. So they end up closer to medium tanks. Some heavies were fast with the armor they had, so some of them were nerfed so they couldn’t play like mediums. TDs do have good pen if you check. They get good guns usually. Most of them don’t have turrets so they will turn slower since they can’t turn both a turret and a hull.
Bad players are normal. If you’re a good player it’s because you play better than the bad players. Just do your best and try to work with the team you have. You’ll perform well and be able to enjoy the game

[plush perch]

Leave it , it is a step for medium meta

[humble frost]

You would agree with ms1 to have two types of cannons one autoloader and one simple say yes who agrees and who does not agree says horrible idea

[distant flume]

Nerf St-1 and K91, that’s it.
Just do it, I hate those things with my life

[full token]

K91 won’t be nerfed. They avoid nerfs on premiums. They also buffed its alpha without nerfing any stats like clip reload, because that’s a ‘nerf’ to a stat and they don’t even do that

[sharp saddle]

Well in my opinion, the ST-I is fine how it is currently

[pallid nest]

St-1 is totally fine as it is. K91 too. If you cannot handle them it is not the tanks that have something wrong with them. (Edit for clarity @full token )

[full token]

theyre not bad tho

[golden turret]

K-91 doesn’t really need a nerf anyway.

[leaden flare]

it does its by far far far the best t9 heavy

[drowsy plaza]

The K-91 definitely didn’t need the alpha buff. I really does need a nerf

[golden turret]

I do remember at some point it had a 12-13 second clip reload which I thought was insanely op

[quasi axle]

it's an autoloader and has the best dpm among t9 heavies 🤪

[real bison]

wait hol up why does the 4005 now get 3.5k dpm

why did WG feel that it needed to be buffed

[hearty steeple]

Yeah... Just like how they felt it was necessary to kill the dpm on 215b, they felt the autoloader didn't kill fast enough

[uneven narwhal]

Hmm yes surely a tank with 3 super consumables and a provision to reduce HE damage with a deadly clip and 3,5k DPM cant go wrong

[plush perch]

they nerfed super speed boost , it is a compensation for that. Besides it's gun handling kinda sucks and it's gigantic

[real bison]

@plush perch reticle calibration exists, and the thing has better camo than the grille???

like I’m still confused how a literal BOX on a CENTURION hull manages to be more sneaky than a moving gunshield

also, assuming your shells always hit for 460, you can deal (according to my probably bad maths, so correct me if I’m wrong) 4k damage in 3 clips, all under 60s (not including intraclip reload boost)

[plush perch]

because reticle calibration never ends, you dont waste one consumable slot for it, small tanks can hug you and you are doomed. Not to mention if you get spotted everyone is gonna shoot you because you are so big and paper ppl just have to point and click. I have no idea how this 1s reload boost is going to affect 4005 so much, after all it DID receive super speed boost nerf

[mental pasture]

You're asking for a stupidly long matchmaker. You're smart, smart enough to understand it won't work at all.

[nimble zodiac]

So uh tell me

How does this relate to balance?

[quasi axle]

writing balance discussion in all caps does not make it balance discussion
Thank you have a nice day

[unique scaffold]

Read the pinned messages. This channel has nothing to do with matchmaking

[supple turtle]

Defniately and also some tanks ( usually mine!) the armour has weakened.

[distant river]

@supple turtle @mint void Seems like some people didn't read the "very important" bit :/

[jagged crescent]

Is it me or is the e50m a lil too fast

[granite light]

WG pls do something with the kv-2 the RNG and the matchmaking too i playing with kv-2 and the rng is just thinked 1 and i eant to shoot the gargoyle and i see i can penetrate it and the rng is coming and the third shot ia killed him and i wanted to shoot the arl turret side or hull side cuz i can penetrate it with HE and i perfectly aimed he and theres no damage. And the matchmaking! I wanna play in tier 5-6 not 6-7 cuz i not really can penetrate tier 7 tanks and the enemy is only focusing me i think im a magnet or IDK but i really mad that time oh ans the lagg on phone thx

[last shadow]

I need a minute to process this...

[unique scaffold]

So you want a game where you can drive around, top tier, one shotting other players. That sounds really fun for YOU.

I mean who cares about the other players in those tiers… right?

[unique scaffold]

They are good balanced i think.you can shoot the lower plate on both.sure on k91 the sides are a bit troll but all around you can destroy them when you know how

[quasi axle]

the existence of a Lower plate does not mean the tank is balanced

[distant flume]

Yea, half the time their sitting behind a building hiding their hull via angling and I can’t do anything about it. Not even my APCR can pen them

[unique scaffold]

Ever heared about those both russian tanks being heavys with huge armor ? In tanks like this you have to use armor.i could also say now:,, nerf kranvagn turret it is to op when hull down." This would be complete nonsense. If a light tank or a medium would have that much armor, then i would think about asking for a nerf but not for a heavy

[distant flume]

It’s hard to argue with his assessment. Still annoying tho.

[unique scaffold]

If you wanna make armor useless , then play TDs like ISU-152,obj.704, Jagttiger, Waffenträger auf Pz.4, Ho-Ri, fv 183, jgpz. E100 or one of the other TDs

[nimble zodiac]

And only one has the chance to penetrate a hulldown Kranvagn

Correction Ho-Ri II does not have OP pen :v

[distant flume]

Ho ri time

[unique scaffold]

I think JgPz. E 100 can also pen kran turret with cali and prammo.if i am right jgt. E100 has 414 pen with cali on its prammo .

[nimble zodiac]

And so it becomes a shot full of RNG, like Ho-Ri's

And it can gun block to expose cupolas, which are also hard to hit

[jagged crescent]

yo the e50m's a lil too fast rn

[unique scaffold]

E50M has only got more armor if i am right.it always had 60km/h if i remember right.

[hearty steeple]

It had the worst p/w in the class. Slightly better than some heaviums. So it never really hit that speed unless it was going downhill. Now it has +5 better effective p/w

[quasi axle]

I LOVE wgs balancing decisions!

[real bison]

if I ever decide to learn coding this might be a thing I do, but this ain’t related to balance

new 4202 and 7/1 look nice, but 60kph is (imo) a little too fast

[unique scaffold]

Alright. So there where more changes

[versed tide]

E50m just bullies other meds even more now, it used to be good but it was a touch too slow now it can keep up

[remote oriole]

<@&481447501690568709>

[gleaming apex]

DomTorretoHimself#4882 has been warned.

[unique scaffold]

Yes but where to send it? If i send dm no response/annyoing. If i tag ofc no response, annoying/against rules. Where???

[dawn pumice]

buff cent 1 it's powercrept as hell
a smasher can go through the turret of that thing with AP
just buff the turret roof to like 70 mm it'd be much better

[scarlet fjord]

omg WG nerfed the IS-7 turret to 228 thickness 🤦‍♂️

[versed tide]

Yeah I’m not sure why, they nerfed fv and is7 because they benefit the most from a med meta but they are still both average tanks

[scarlet fjord]

another one of the balance team's stunts which I'm getting sick of

[prisma jetty]

IS-7 wasn’t touched, they just adjusted the homogenization value which they did for every tank in the game

[grave marsh]

^ Check the balance notes for 8.2 to see which tanks were actually changed

[plush perch]

they nerfed turret armor

[prisma jetty]

Nope, they just set all homogenization values to 1.

[scarlet fjord]

didn't they say all homogenization values were 1 to begin with?
and how come the hull armor did not "change"?

[quasi axle]

No

[full token]

They said they adjusted them to 1 now. Before it was something else. Blitzhangar isn’t the most reliable one. Just because it said only the turret was adjusted doesn’t mean it was a regular nerf.

[scarlet fjord]

i was looking at the in game values the hull armor is still 150-150-100
which i cant understand
your missing my point
I'm asking why the homogenization changes didnt affect the values of the hull only the turret values

[prisma jetty]

Because it wasn’t nerfed. The homogenization values were changed.
The values aren’t changed, only the homogenization value, I don’t know how much clearer I can be.

[remote oriole]

It’s not clear that homogenisation is a global stat. It might very well be local to the turret or only some plates

[jagged crescent]

Wack

[unique scaffold]

Why is my ping so bad after the updates and patches and why do i get warned when i describe my problem?

[unique scaffold]

Try reading the warning you received via dm.

[leaden flare]

since when is ping balance related
after the M60 buffs i quite like it and the added dpm compensates for the lack of turret armor or the amount of weakspots rather then bad armor

[unique scaffold]

I’m loving the M60 now.

[leaden flare]

Fav med atm for me but that might be a sign that it's too strong but for the time being I'll enjoy it

[terse tinsel]

it wont be nerfed that s why the m60 is the biggest winner of this update

[scarlet fjord]

now i see the logic in this one you got my point

[thick rover]

imo maybe they should have distributed the nerf of traverse among the turret and hull traverse hehehe IS4 is annoying to play now or maybe I have to get used to it.. the gun just can't keep up with the hull traverse

[twin egret]

I become depressed every time I see the FV215b now

?

[scarlet fjord]

i guess they wanted to nerf the heaviums cuz they wanna switch it to medium meta and heaviums counter meds

[graceful ravine]

idk about u guys but i found this reddit thread about this line and i got to be honest its pretty interresting maybe wg could take a look, idk https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldofTanks/comments/7mxp9y/t110_models_and_american_td_line/

[night geode]

☝️

[safe rapids]

Looks pretty cool.

[lean gate]

@lusty silo
Sorry for the ping
But i see something interesting on this post
Can wg do this on future maybe??

[sinful cloud]

Mm verry balanced 🤣

[rancid trellis]

The T34 heavy could use some love

[prisma jetty]

I mean it has turret armor and a pretty good gun, what more could you ask for?

[safe rapids]

Yeah, it’s balanced fine.

[sharp saddle]

It’s alright, but has suffered from the introduction of other similar tanks like the Shark & Sheriff.
You also have the T32 which has received multiple buffs and is quite good as well.

Tank is still fine, there are just other better choices these days

[pale pewter]

huh? does this make sense?

[prisma jetty]

I don't see a problem. You got hit in the side, most likely by a 120/122mm gun.

[rancid trellis]

@prisma jetty nah, the reload is too long for a gun that rolls 300 dmg more often that it rolls anything else, the reload time atleast needs a buff to maybe a flat 12 or less. For a gun that’s supposed to compete with the Russian 122s it’s pretty lacking in effectiveness yeah it’s got great turret armor and it’s great hull down but the gun is unreliable. I had several rolls last game that were like straight 300 exactly. Personally I feel that’s bull crap

[pale pewter]

I got hit in the Front in the right Track... Yoh hits me with the 2 drum mag in the Front

[quasi axle]

Thats just luck the avg roll is 400

[prisma jetty]

Well, you have more standard pen, but it sounds like rng is screwing you over. There's not much wg can do about that. It's reload is about on par with 120/122mm guns at tier 8's, and you get much better gd than other 120/122mm guns.

@pale pewter That's not what it looks like. It looks like they went right through your side right above the tracks. So the first shot took out your track, the second penetrated your side. I still don't see a problem.

[rancid trellis]

@prisma jetty I still feel the reload is too long if you get in a position of advantage you can’t utilize what dmg it does do effectively

[pale pewter]

Do you want the Replay If you want but the track didn't break the pic is a bit later taken than the hit... in the first 2 min

[prisma jetty]

@rancid trellis Hulldown and you can shoot on reload.

@pale pewter I mean, the shot came from your left, I can see that in your screenshot. Obviously they didn't hit your front right track and hit some part on the tank that let them penetrate.

[pale pewter]

In the first min in the game

[prisma jetty]

As it turns out, this is where it hit you @pale pewter

[jagged crescent]

the armor on the 263s busted

[pale pewter]

The hit is a bit weird but OK

[sudden path]

263 is busted in general

[dull ember]

bufff e50s front turret

[deep shadow]

I feel that the E5 and FV215B DPM nerf were too harsh and were not needed. The E5 and Kran's turret traverses nerfs were also too harsh in my opinion! The E5 is a lot worse now compared to Chieftain and T95. E5 also has less alpha and DPM compared to a lot of the tier 10 heavies. I still perform ok in the E5, but its traverse and DPM nerfs were quite noticeable. It already had meh armor. The graph from 8.1 also proves that the E5 was quite balanced. Gonna be quite interesting to see the 8.2 performance graphs even though I suspect not much gonna change for E5.

[golden turret]

E5 is still pretty much hulldown god and very very annoying to fight against

[terse tinsel]

they could ve just removed the consumables

[plush perch]

balancing team doesnt like logic

[sweet prism]

Really, now e50m has better effective power to weight in every kind of terrain than a tvp? What were WG thinking?
The tvp literally couldn't outrun me in a e50m...

[silent wigeon]

<@&481447501690568709> ^^^ scam

[worthy basin]

Got 'm

[nimble zodiac]

You win more battles than you've lost, and you take examples of loss streaks to complain about them in a channel that is constantly reminded that stuff like this doesn't belong here? 😑

Just delete it, we all have those bad days

[tough zephyr]

But 30 loses in row is not something that should happen, btw these screens are from today if you look at the time and date! 😫 i cant handle it it so frustrating

[unique scaffold]

Can you read the pinned messages? Thanks

[tough zephyr]

Ok

[leaden flare]

I'd say git gud 😂
Cuz it's really not that hard to win and 30 looses is a skill issue

Idk if it's balance related but lower the amount of tds per battle from 3 to 2 would be improving battle time and make battles less static at least for decent players

I'd delete that or a mod will have some fun with you😅

[tough zephyr]

Slill issue? This is what my everybattle looks

[sudden path]

Highly doubt you average 4k and lose 30 games in a row

[sharp saddle]

Reminder that this is #tank-balance-discussion and to look at pinned messages

[quick lichen]

You should read about negativity bias

[tough zephyr]

I dont wanted to be negative, iam not negative

[unique scaffold]

Then you should at least read the pinned messages @tough zephyr

[quick lichen]

That’s not what… did you even look it up?

[scenic hound]

overall i approve of the balance changes, however i would ask y did they nerf the 215b, i mean i feel that it needs a small armor buff because now it runs more as a medium, but my biggest concern is the yoh, the armor is too strong, not only does it have a gun that does alm as much as a 183, but it's very armored as well, it's actually distressing sometimes, make the cupolas bigger or weaken the hull, i shoot at the flat side of the tank and 50% of the time it doesnt go through, what's with that? but to sum up try to buff the fv a bit and nerf the yoh armor

[shell carbon]

Do you spend a lot of money on the game/are a youtuber?
If answer is no then wargaming couldn't care less (which is sad)
I agree with those changes though, 215b seems pretty op but the yoh needs nerfs for sure

[exotic goblet]

attention guys, super unicom 4k average damage 0% win rate coming through

[quick lichen]

Lol what? The 215b is no where near op and was the worst performing tier x heavy for the last two updates courtesy of #devs-answers

[shell carbon]

I never said it was op I said it seems op :/ is this all you pramo guys even do besides being good? Just sit in discord trying to correct people?

[prisma jetty]

If you think the 215B even seemed good, that’s kinda bad judgement on your part.

[quick lichen]

Where’s another person from pramo doing that for starters?

Seeming op and being op are two completely different things. Perhaps you should play the 215b before you talk about it

[orchid grove]

215b had essentially nothing going for it other than the gun. It’s slow, has a pretty weak armor profile by heavy standards, and is heavily limited by its rear mounted turret setup

[quick lichen]

Easily catches fire, gets tracked, loses its ammo rack, and loses crew on top of that

[wicked quest]

And limited ammo on top of that

[quick lichen]

Great point. Oh. It also keeps losing hp proportionally

[uneven narwhal]

215b is great for giving free damage to the reds

[quick lichen]

@shell carbon look at all these fine non pramo people correcting you. Gonna call them out too?

[jagged crescent]

Clan tags are op

[shell carbon]

Not really interesting in grinding up a new line for 2 months with no premium time and bad randoms because unlike you I don't have every tank in the game and 60% wr

Now I'm gonna stop arguing because this chat cooldown is annoying

Plus don't play the game much/at all, I don't know about nerfs

[golden turret]

If you did, then why you still here?

[winged barn]

But guys, remember:
It will become dominant after every other tier 10 gets nerfed

[unique scaffold]

How dare you be active on a server you help moderate. Shame on you.

[sharp saddle]

Being easily tracked and rear turreted can be a frustrating combo when playing the tank

[nimble zodiac]

Yeah, you're not being irrational or passive unlike the best mods 😤

[leaden flare]

Well yes but actually no
Takes up a heavy slot but has medium hp😂

[lunar niche]

All this because of superconsumables and sandbags.

[shell carbon]

Man I just wanted to have an opinion, guess you can't have those nowadays without 7 guys hounding you about it

[wicked quest]

Because that immediately excuses anyone from criticism

[winged barn]

Imo the maus is trash an needs a buff

/s

[nimble zodiac]

"Your opinion is wrong"

I'm dumb :l

[thin python]

How does spread contribute fo balance?

[quasi axle]

no mm here but I'm guessing that was a rating battle so #rating-battles

[real bison]

better to have an informed opinion than an uninformed one

[shell carbon]

idk i still think the 215b is good so

[twin egret]

What. :peepoweird:

[shell carbon]

What.

[quick lichen]

To quote you directly, you quit playing the game years ago and don’t have the tank/nor have played it but please tell me more about why you think it’s good🙄

Why are you here if you don’t play?

[shell carbon]

i play the game like once a month ish also i just check the discord once and a while

I don't care if my opinion was valid or not I was just saying my opinion

[quick lichen]

#tank-balance-discussion message

So you lied?

You opened yourself up for this by not having the tank and rarely playing. Until you play it yourself, your opinion isn’t valid in all seriousness

[jagged crescent]

Then why post it

[minor minnow]

It was a good read regardless

[cerulean agate]

since 8.2 is the uprising medium meta, there's 3 meds that's been left out. Namely: Obj140, Prog65, and Amx30b.

These 3 tanks can still be effective in 8.2meta but i find it lacking compared to the new super meds.

140, still has its supreme camo and dpm, but it needs to differ from the 62a's playstyle somwhat.

Amx30b, it has speed and a mantlet, thats all. 8.2 dramatically increased alot of meds stats, 30b's dpm was the lowest(not including mag/clippers), its gun is mediocre at best. Before 8.2, it was the nerfed leo1, 8.2 for me didn't make the tank unplayable, but rather lacking in alot of scenarios. Still a fun tank.

Prog65, can still clip for a 1000+ but really, compared to ridiculous dpm increase in the new meds, its hard to do a 1vs1 with a medplyr who know whats he's doing. My opinion still stands that tier9(Sta.B) is still better because it can do everything the 65 can but better except lucky bounces. Both can do 1000 clip in 6 sec although Sta.B is more accurate and has HEp shells. The armor doesnt hold up becoz it's not thick enough(3-rule/overmatch mechanics). I believe the Prog should go back to its unnerfed state before it was released or atleast give it something that makes it better than the Sta.B.

P.s. srry for the wall of text

[frail cloak]

nerf 60tp. Buff was utter useless and now it just makes it the most op heavy at tier 10. Turret armor cant get penned by HEAT now and only weakness from the front is the 2 inch lower glacis plate. And now that it got a 600 alpha gun its literally broken. For bloody hell return it back to what it was before. More balanced

[quasi axle]

sad leo noises 😔

[quick lichen]

You couldn’t have played it since testers are under an NDA agreement so where exactly are you getting this from? Clearly you’ve never played it so how would you know?

[mental pasture]

Uhhhh, the hull down tank can't be penetrated by HEAT

I might try hull down with E100

[winged barn]

Compared to e100...

[nimble zodiac]

blitzhangar 😳

Well if he wants to not get legally destroyed, then I suppose he isn’t correctly deciphering the performance of 60TP

[quick lichen]

As we well know, stats on paper and stats in reality are two completely different things. Dracula has garbage dpm yet it makes no difference when it comes to performance

[mental pasture]

In theory, every status in Helsing is mediocre (aside from max speed and shell speed), but in reality, it's the best tier 7 TD in therms of WR.

[quick lichen]

Another fine point

[quick lichen]

The kran statistically didn’t impress anyone and look how that went

[nimble zodiac]

It impressed me, I knew the turret was gonna be very strong

[jagged crescent]

Bruh if you’re asking for something to make the 140 differ from the 62a, then ur clearly not playing the 140 right

[versed tide]

the stats are not changing and pbr just makes it look nice

[scarlet loom]

hello, where is the chat place to complain?

[mental pasture]

Depends, what are you going to complain?

[thick rover]

5a buff pls :")

[quick lichen]

Any other server 😃

[sweet prism]

Does super engine boost nerf apply to premiums which had it? Like annihilator, t26e3 eagle?

[uneven narwhal]

yes

[wicked sluice]

@sweet prism yes

[sweet prism]

That's interesting, I'm surprised nobody battted an eye...😏

[uneven narwhal]

Eh it's barely a difference
50% to 40% isn't gonna take a huge hit on tanks anyway
They use it for like 20s twice or thrice a game

[remote oriole]

I was waiting for premium players crying about premium nerfs to combat them on this server but they didn‘t care

[sweet prism]

It's not about how much difference, any non zero change is enough...
What do you think will happen if they increased anni mag reload by 1s?
To be clear, I'm fine with premiums taking nerf bat if needed...

[drowsy plaza]

They won’t, beside WG adjusted the Annihilators MM to offset with another Annihilator. See @primal mountain data set.

[primal mountain]

https://blitzanalysiz.com/blog/2021-08-22_8.1_final_stats_added/#annihilators-nerf

[remote oriole]

Lol, I suspected that they did that

[quick lichen]

Smart. That way the annihilator always wins 😏 (unless there’s a draw)

[uneven narwhal]

Big Brain

[mental pasture]

It means that Annihilator WR will be stuck at it's current state for ever (perhaps going down at every draw)?

[orchid grove]

It’s basically a way of cheating the system, where WG is making it harder to pad winrate in the Annihlator, but haven’t addressed the issue of annihlator being incredibly unfun to play against for most players

[empty nexus]

If 60TP got Alpha buff to 600 from 560, could all the tanks with 152mm + gun that currently have 560 alpha (like the Foch) also get their alpha buffed to 600? I think it would be fair, maybe other stats could be adjusted so e.g DPM remains the same.
Annihilator is manageable if you have armour, if you’re a CDC it’s definitely an unfun tank to have to deal with

[mental pasture]

Not only CDC, but every medium that don't have a trollish armor nor a very good turret for hull down

[orchid grove]

The way I personally deal with annihlators is just making sure I have some sort of cover. I peek, let them shoot me, then immediately go safe so they only hit like 1 one of their shots, then do my best to molest him while he’s on reload

[mental pasture]

I use tanks that hit hard most of times, so every time I shot an Annihilator, I want this shot to be worth the next 10-15 seconds. Tracking and causing damage at the same time is my focus

[empty nexus]

I remember when someone asked about Wargaming nerfing smasher and WG Responded by saying it would be unpopular. They got absolutely ratioed 😂 800 downvotes to 100 upvotes or something like that

[drowsy plaza]

@mental pasture it’s why the Annihilator dropped like a rock out of the top WR tanks. Now it still is grossly over performing, but not in the WR category. So I suspect the idea was that many players would stop clubbing in it and reduce it’s toxic effects.

[mental pasture]

Even tho making a harsh effect for every other non-Smasher or non- Anni user

[full token]

wz 120 getting that 5 degrees

[golden turret]

Wait so wargaming made it so that Annihilators wouldn’t face tier 6 or 8 or made it so they would never face another annihilator

[quasi axle]

Huh?

[uneven narwhal]

They made it so that when one team has an Anni, the other will deffo have one as well

[golden turret]

Ah ok. That’s actually good.

[tacit vault]

Where do you find that?
Where do you find the open test?
@vital basalt ty!
The only change to the e100's stalwart camo is a german flag on its side turret tho right

[full token]

Open test 8.3

[vital basalt]

from open test discussion so yes
@tacit vault in RU forum

[terse tinsel]

bro what about the leo pta

[leaden flare]

Oh wz getting a quality of life buff

[drowsy plaza]

PTA Cries.

[last shadow]

PTA what is that?
Can I eat it?

[twin egret]

What other changes are being made in 8.3?

[drowsy plaza]

Not up yet - so just leaks from RU at this point

[twin egret]

3 seconds is too short

[fallow eagle]

You can check the changes in blitzhangar

[honest dagger]

I agree with you on the 140. Its kinda powercrept now imo, no one plays it bc 62a but only veterans who want nostalgic. I think it should be buffed acceleration, accuracy, and just a little bit of turret armor (shouldnt be as stronk as 62a ofc). Therefore keeping the agreesive brawling playstyle of the tnak, but it can be done more easily and effectively