tank-balance-discussion

[fiery dagger]

Tiger II couldn't be farther from historical. If it was, it would have 150 mm frontal armour, 185 mm turret front, 80 mm sides with a 88mm cannon and a 700 hp maybach engine.

[sudden path]

The centurion 7/1 would have a 152mm ufp instead of a 121mm...

[twin egret]

Yes

[unique scaffold]

If the Tiger 2 was historical it wouldn’t make it out of spawn… wait… maybe it is historical 🤣

[twin egret]

Based spartacus?

[sudden granite]

If the game was historical you wouldn’t be able to repair tracks in 1 second and go +20km/h for 20sec outta nowhere

[prisma jetty]

Dude, I want my historically accurate track repairs. Make it interactive as well, for the entire 1-2 hours it takes.

[dreamy oar]

If the game was historically accurate you’ll die in one shot most of the time

[drowsy plaza]

@candid steeple WT doesn’t have much better accuracy. 90mm top APCR from M26,
M36, T26E1 etc can’t front pen a Tiger II (any version) in WT - German tanks are beyond stupid in WT, so let’s not drag comparisons here

[gleaming apex]

Damianpastre#8814 was banned

[stray verge]

If anything, historical accuracy would only make balancing a pain because people make hardware that is better than its competition

[candid steeple]

I just bought amx 50 B and it's on 75% crew. I already did 3k 5k+ games. Ah yeah amx 50 B certainly is a high skill and certainly not overstated for the excuse of the turret armor. Well rip Kran this thing is 5 times better even with new crew lmao.

People still don't get it. Kran maybe has strong turret but everything else is trash. Nerf that WG is planning will kill Kran completely for me. Tank is way to limited for my taste.

[jagged crescent]

I like both tanks tbh

[keen estuary]

🙂

[tepid latch]

kran is op rn your point? it doesnt deserve a nerf?

[quasi axle]

The 50b is better than the kran for farming

[nimble zodiac]

Kran isn't meta because of its ability to farm, it specializes in turret armor for a reason.

Perhaps in balance, having an invincible turret with that gun depression is simply too powerful to the point it suffers like 183, who has too high of an alpha to achieve any other benefits

[jagged crescent]

Clip + Gun + Turret + Reverse Speed. That’s a lot of things the Kran has rn. And with the nerf, it’ll still have those.

[kind mortar]

Amx 30b dpm buff of at least 200 when???

[nimble zodiac]

Though faster than STB-1, it lacks DPM, and in comparison, turret armor effectiveness

[thin ermine]

If blitz was historical the tiger 1 would catch on fire every 15 seconds

[frail silo]

How dare they?! A tank that didn't even have a turret has its gd values edited.
So unprofessional!

[simple patio]

The is4 has double the track armour than the maus because that makes alot of sense. The gun is troll and inaccurate and it doesn't need the disperson nerf, making it less accurate than the e100. What on earth are you talking about? Even if its small, its still possible to get penned there and I have been penned via the weakspot on multiple occasions mostly by coincidence as people aim for the lower plate and miss. I am not asking for an impenetrable tank but I expect a tank that sacrifices literally everything for armour and hp to not have such a blatant weakspot that the tier VIII and tier IX versions don't have. Even on wot pc its 140mm so its not something that would destroy balance at tier X as you suggested lmao.

[raven dawn]

on paper the maus nerf looks bad but in practice it can rebalance the tank nicely, doing a ton of damage is easy if you have that much armor and hp. but, it's a game and maus wont be as fun if it's nerfed.

tho i dont agree with e5 or fv nerf to be so much, nor do i think any tank should have the same hp as maus after 8.2

[rare sleet]

Historically Kranvagn wasn't made, and historically it had 20mm of side armor and historically your point never had any base because historically historical arguments don't make sense in a arcade tank battle game.

Historically the historical tanks are way outnumbered in this game. But History is not important as in this game history is only inspiration for the non historical balancing methods. Games are meant to be balanced, you can't just slap on historical values because historically most tanks were historically horrendous in build quality. Most Historical tanks in history had terrible transmissions that most often in history broke down. And playing a real historical history tank battle game would be extremely unbalanced, and wot and wotb as we know it might known in history as historically the worst ever designed historical tank simulator battle game.

Wait wait, and historically I believe in this history aligned historical battle game, you would complain more with your terrible historical complaints. And those arguments will be in the history books of this historically realistic historical game of the next generation of history. You definitely would not have fun in this historical history tank battle simulator, so any historical arguments on the historical statistics of this clearly unhistorical game is null and void, and will be null and void for the rest of history...

WAit A minute Warthunder isn't even historical either lmao, Its quite realistic but not completely historical, so your dream utopia of this completely accurate historical history game will never come true because it won't be fun at all. Okay im just taking the piss at this point

[twin egret]

Historically World of Tanks Blitz is historical in its own terms as it has a lore, which may or may not shock you, but it indeed has lore. The game has a timeline of sorts which connect the dots of all the events that happened in the game.

In The World of Tanks Blitz Universe, tanks themslevea control themselves, there is evidence backing this up as a cave drawing im Goldville depicts several cavemen attempting to fend off several tanks. Later on, somewhere along the timeline, humans tame these tanks, domesticated them, and became what they look like. Later on in the timeline, a war occurred or some sorts, a German mad scientists starts creating the tankenstien. The development of the Defender tanks appear to fend off hos creations.

Independence day happens, and some apoptylitic event occurrs, wiping out the majority of the tankd and humans. Bow a desolate wasteland some Mad Max event occurs, the Smasher is a thing, along with the Annilator.

[candid steeple]

When did I say that I wanted tanks to be balanced of based on historical reference? I just said that he can't use that as argument since WG doesn't follow that anymore.

Yet people here jump on me?

Guys I need explanations.

[twin egret]

What?

[novel nimbus]

WeeGee only cares about the money and not the games player base they will implement the nerfs anyway

[nimble zodiac]

Tell me. What about nerfing tech tree heavies will lead to their profit? You think a strengthened desire for a better tier 10 would lead to players purchasing from the scarce pool of tier 10 premiums and collectors?

They can just sell tanks more, that's what would roll in cash from the shop

[novel nimbus]

True

[lunar ruin]

I need answers. Why on earth can I not pen the hatch of the E3 in DIRECT line of sight from a high pen gun?? Why. I must know.

[distant river]

Imagine comparing the maus to the meta tank to try and excuse a buff for it lol. The maus is not supposed to be a damage dealer, and the gun nerf is going to help it okay it's role better. It's small, it's insignificant, and if you are exposing your lower plate anyway then you are not in the right position and you should expect to be penned. The gun is still respectable, and the rest of the armour is still fabulous, as well as having a stupid amount of hp. As you can see from #devs-answers it's not sacrificing enough. It's not a blatant weak spot it's a tiny place that you yourself literally admitted gets penned by coincidence most of the time. Wot pc is a totally different game so leave any attempt at using their stats to back up a buff to one of the best tanks in the game rn. You are suggesting a totally unnecessary and unreasonable buff to a tank that doesn't need it, most likely because you got penned there in a game and got mad.

[candid steeple]

Hmm not even tier VIII has such weak spots. Well you can't be more wrong. VK 100 has a tower on it's head that even tier VI can pen. That's the reason why I don't play that tank. Maus is the best tier X heavy in the game right now and probably needs the least amount of skill to play. IS-4 is easier to pen then Maus and a lot easier. If you vigle your lower plate of the Maus tracks can eat a shot since lower plate is so small. In my opinion Maus should lose 200 hp and not 150. Kran doesn't need a turret nerf but it's and getting it's hp reduced by 150 and turret trevers speed decreased while the best tank that rolls in your face loses just 150 hp. Maus needs bigger hp nerf. Tank has been dominant and annoying to fight against since hp buffs went live.

[winged barn]

"That even tier 6 can pen"
Lol
A few tier 6s have completely overkill pen

[twin egret]

Balanced

[empty nexus]

If it wasn’t for a bad turret, arl would be almost broken. I say almost cuz it’s sides are horribly weak

[leaden flare]

there is a T7 that can pen the upper plate xD

[balmy cypress]

SU-101 has joined the chat

[candid steeple]

khmm khmm

[balmy cypress]

now run cali

[leaden flare]

363 is a little overkill but yeah fun too

[simple patio]

I used wot PC as reference because you suggested fixing the tiny weakspot would "break balance" but it clearly didn't in that case so its logical to assume applying the same thing to wotb would not destroy balance. Also, maus is meta thats why its used in tournaments genius. You get penned via the weakspot much more than you think because its right next to the lower plate which just shouldn't happen on a tank that sacrifices literally everything for armour that already has weakspots (turret cheeks, lower plate, connection between upper plate with side armour and even upper plate in some cases). Also, the dispersion nerf is unnecessary as the gun is already among the worst for heavies at tier X; now its gonna be less accurate than the e100 which has a 150mm gun... but my main issue is the track armour. The maus would perform pretty similar even if it was buffed because its a small weakspot but the point is such a weakspot should not exist on a superheavy that relies entirely on armour.

[full token]

It’s nowhere near the worst for tier X. Both the stats and the spam in tournaments will show that

[distant river]

I suggested that buffing one of the best tanks in the game was a bad idea. You seem to be adverse to this because you can't work around a weak spot. This is not the tanks fault, this is a player that wants a tank to be even more brainless to play.

Your "main issue" is that you want an impenetrable tank with no weak spots, which is just stupid. The maus would perform similarly, but slightly better. As you can see from the data, the maus does not need to perform better. It needs to perform worse. A lot worse. Somehow you can't understand that so maybe take some time thinking about it and waiting until you understand that buffing one of the best tanks is a stupid idea.

Also, PC and blitz are not comparable games so please stop talking about pc. Just because one aspect works there (ignoring the multitude of other differences), it does not mean it will work here.

[teal palm]

PC has arty which is enough said

[empty nexus]

Guys credit to wargaming tho, Blitz is a lot more balanced than PC and it doesn’t have a gold problem

[cursive dragon]

Balance:remove annihilator and smasher and the other broken t7

[empty nexus]

yes okay but Tier 7 is the only tier, and besides You can always play tier 8. Imho Tier 7 isn’t that broken, as far too many Unskilled players play the broken tanks that the broken tanks become…average

[quasi axle]

you can't just say t7 being unbalanced is fine bc t8 exists

[leaden flare]

until there is clarity whether the chart is from RU or all servers combined i wouldnt even trust that chart other then for obvious things

RU after all is known to use less prammo and guess what tank benefits insanely from no prammo ... Maus

[distant river]

Yes I have less than half a brain that's why I don't cry when a tank has a weak spot and is still one of the best tanks around 👌

@leaden flare These charts back it up, blitzanalysiz.com is generally excellent for stats and their data comes from a mix of all servers (but mainly EU)

[leaden flare]

how the hell is badger outperforming vk 90

and i kinda feel like Maus is only strong if people go double Maus toon because it gives a big HP advantage

[empty nexus]

Guys… Super conqueror and Badger are both tech tree tanks in WOT PC, just like the M4 or whatever that french heavy was called…. What gives?

[rare sleet]

Money mate

[distant river]

The badger and vk90 are both some of the tanks with the lowest numbers of players so the stats will be a little variable, and the maus toon could be a very small factor but certainly not enough to change the stats much

[unique scaffold]

Buff phanter pen for stock gun

[outer glen]

Bruh wg just buffed 2 small weakspots on maus the angled sides that link the skirt and front armor lol why still asking to buff other weakspots

[quasi axle]

no

[full token]

its getting a nerf due to the speed boost nerf

[real bison]

^ thank god that thing is getting nerfed

why should 305mm of frontal armour get to go as fast as most heavies

[gleaming apex]

_HF#5106 was muted

[drowsy plaza]

E3 was fairly OP before the stupid speed boost was added.

[sharp saddle]

The speed boost just gave it an extra boost (no pun lol). It was already good before it as said above, then they bizarrely decided to give it special consumables along with some of its line

[drowsy plaza]

I mean it basically make the T25 AT a tier 7 monster, and while it really didn’t affect the T28 or T95 much it was beyond silly on the E3 as you will pass a M48 Patton going up a hill with the E3 and silly boost on.

[rare sleet]

Yeah people over dramatize everything i swear. When a really good tank gets a slight nerf they say the tank will be garbage i mean bruh what kind of garbage you throwing out

[drowsy plaza]

@rare sleet the E5 and 215b proposed nerfs are going to hurt dramatically, but it will stop them from being better meds.

[winged barn]

The e5 definitely deserved a nerf. The problem is other tanks also deserved nerfs, and people are now compared them.

The 215 didn't deserve a nerf and is just getting buried in the ground.

[sharp saddle]

If that’s what they want the FV215b should have just had its special consumables removed.
The tank is limited to 34km/h without the special speed boost.
Touching the gun is too much imo.

But hey, at least my beloved Chieftain goes untouched since it’s a premium

[winged barn]

Sauce: news page from when the mk6 was first released

[quasi axle]

uh oh...

[empty nexus]

If the gun is nerfed and chieftain uses the same gun… or does it?

[stiff edge]

they dont use the same gun lol

[empty nexus]

Then the chieftain should be nerfed aswell as it’s strengths are Similar to the 215B’s strengths?

[lunar niche]

Chieftain doesn't have super consumables.

[empty nexus]

Then just take away the super consumables instead of nerfing the gun?

[winged barn]

Stop making sense

[uneven narwhal]

^^
WG does not like it when their playerbase makes sense

[leaden flare]

They said the same when making tanks collectors and infamous smasher didn't get smashed yet

[winged barn]

You aren't wrong

[sudden path]

Look the 215b nerf is to cycle new tanks into the meta
It's time for other tanks to shine after 215b/e5 metas

[twin egret]

Its cupola is recieving a rework it seems
It'll have spaced amour on it, instead of main armour

[candid steeple]

Well I like too see how far below VK 72 is compared to E100. Yup tank certainly doesn't luck in armor affectivnes and dpm at all compared to E100.

tho what surprises me is that E5 is below and Maus and Kran and IS-4 and IS-7 and VK 72 but still is getting nerfed and where it hurts the most?? Oh well WG logic.

[twin egret]

Well vk is better
;3

[nimble zodiac]

Just give it that pre-nerf complete 160mm sides

[remote oriole]

Read their reasoning. They want to make heavies less like mediums and more like heavies, because at the moment so e heavies are way too versatile

[jagged crescent]

Huh the e3 actually IS getting a cupola nerf. In exchange for a heat proof cupola, the cupola can be penned with 260+ pen

[full token]

i dont mind them doing that but i dont see why they theyre doing a nerf instead of rebalance for the 215b

[candid steeple]

VK has the second lowest heavy tank dpm in tier X. It has terrible armor profile that can never work and you are as effective as bad as enemy rng is. You can't make your armor hard to pen. Side armor is a joke because of hull shape. Turret armor is a joke because of 160mm turret cheeks that lights spam at with ease. Speed is worse then E100. It has 150 less hp then E100. It has a lot worse dpm then E100. It has less effective armor then E100. It's only good at trading shots because of big alpha and it can work in face hug to demolish other heavies but that about it. You can't vigle your front hull because enemy will just pen your track wheel.

I only want that 160mm of whole side armor back and turret cheeks buff so not everyone can shoot at your turret and you can't do anything to protect it.

Tank is all around if enemy has bad enough rng to miss your big weak points on every part of the tank whatever you show.

E5 is brutal because speed boost. Good gun and dpm is everything that it has over other heavies. Remove that from E5 and you got worse heavy. Nerf what only makes E5 better then some heavies and you killed the tank when it's facing off other heavies. While medium tank drivers cry at everything that they can't beat 1v1.

Like E5 doesn't have good hull armor. It has worse turret armor then most heavies and it can't sidescrape like almost every heavy. Remove dpm that it has over other heavies and say bye bye to the tank. Speed boost made E5 too strong but WG is not adressing that and that's why they are stupid as a balance team for forcing overpowered consumables into the game. Like honestly. Can they use their brains for once. We are in cluster with just new and terrible players because most old players just left because of WG's terrible management of the game.

[remote oriole]

I was not talking about the VK 72

Yes, and they don’t want heavies that are essentially mediums with good armour. And I agree that heavies that are mediums with good armour are a bad thing. As easy as that

[remote oriole]

The frontal hull armour of the E5 is nothing to disregard, and all it really takes for you to be mostly safe from penetrations is a small hill or a bit of rubble on the road. The turret armour is very reliable.

Other strengths of this tank compared to heavies is the viewrange and high accuracy of the gun. Further good aspects of the tank are gundepression, shell velocity, HEAT pen and mobility.

On top of that it receives op consumables, but even without those it was already a strong tank.

Now they nerf the dpm and turret traverse, and as far as I am concerned those are some really welcome weaknesses in the sea of good or great characteristics - we don’t need MBTs.

[candid steeple]

Well I must comment on that. You know mediums for most part got weak hull armor but like you said why care about that. You got OP turret armor because WG likes buffing medium turret armor. You got mobility. Better view range. 3000+ dpm. Extremely good accuracy and we can't forget to give them 8-10 degree of gun dperession regardless what nation they are unless they are chinese. But you know you only lack that +1000 armor like heavy tank to completely replace them.

You see when WG buffs meds turret armor and makes them 10 times simpeler to play players go yes for WG giving them to play with less skill. But when heavy is similar like medium they just start crying like children since they cant hit it 3 times before it hits them back. Well what can I say. You just look for your own benefits and what everything different to be worse then you. How dare heavy tank exist that can fight against mediums on equal terms. Well you can't cry about OP premiums like cheiftain and the other one since they are premiums. Better give mediums more armor and more dpm but give heavies just 200hp. Jeez when meta shifts and there ain't as many heavies in games. It will be just red turret poping behind the ridge shooting at each other or flanks falling like apples. Btw I noticed that in recent time autoloaders are everywhere. I think that meta is already shifting in other direction. While mediums and lights can still shoot at VK 72 cheeks and hull side armor with ease pumping each shell after 6s for 400 damage because you know it likes to high roll.

Heavy accuracy will hit that mhm

[quasi axle]

med turrets aren't "op" med prammo with cali and heavy&td prammo will go right through

[plush perch]

215b nerf is stoopid and it was not even meta, u cant justify it

[full token]

Them trying to change it was justified. It being a nerf instead of rebalance wasn’t justified

[twin egret]

214b wasnt mets

[sudden path]

215b was meta in 2019

[winged barn]

Before everything else was hp buffed

Its gonna be a medium without any speed one it gets nerfed

[drowsy plaza]

@candid steeple do you play Blitz? Because honestly it doesn’t seem you have a clue about most tanks. Meds impenetrable turrets? There is really just 1, the T-22.

[rare sleet]

fv4202 cri, not even a gun mantlet like a leopard 1 which can troll sometimes. But top speed buff to 60 is hype

[twin egret]

That was 2 yrs ago for 3 months 🤡

[candid steeple]

I defenetely don't play Blitz.

If I weren't I wouldn't bother to comment on the game. Don't worry I am not bad player.

@leaden flare meds got more view range and a lot better concealment then heavies. You can't just look at view range. Heavy is always going to be outspoted even by tds.

[twin egret]

Bruh.

Sincerely,
Us

[leaden flare]

Which med has 10° gd ?
STB is 9 iirc and that's the one with the best gd and even if there is 10 it's only 1 med having 10° and the STB turret is pennable hulldown even for a 183 hesh because the turret cheeks are not exactly strong

Med turrets are easy to butter through and really you see the almost non existent view range diff as a plus for meds, it's not like you can almost never use them

If M60 has 10 then m48 too right
Okay strange
No Leo should be 9

M60 doesn't really profit from 10 turret is weak anyway
STB yes it's annoying but also isn't impennable
FV is butter at all time

[distant river]

Armour inspector shows the STB and the 4202 (hulldown god of the game) have 10°

Oops forgot about the M60 thanks for reminding me and ruining my life having to think about that thing :/

[winged barn]

Emsickstee also has 10°

48 has 9
Leo is 9

[plush perch]

leo1 has also 10?

[candid steeple]

You want to say that because turret armor is not that good 10 degree is nothing? You defenetely are thinking that wrongly.

WZ-121 coming at you with 220 mm cheeks as big as it's turret and 6 degree of gun depression.

[distant river]

M60 new heavy tank counter confirmed, watch out for its 250/300 pen, 1900 hp and 220mm huge cheeks coming to ruin the meta 👀

[leaden flare]

Don't forget the huge cupola

My kran is already nervously sweating

[modest zodiac]

at7 buff when

[remote oriole]

Another one?

Wow, so rude, I actually like the slow heavy tds 😦

[nimble zodiac]

When the concept actually can fit in this game

So never =)

[golden turret]

if you dont play blitz, then why are you here...

[nimble zodiac]

Sarcasm.

[candid steeple]

ye. I though it was obvious enough specially with text under :/

[silk hamlet]

conqueror turret buff when
seriously tier 8 meds can pen it

yeah sure the gun is amazing but what are you gonna do if you cant even hulldown in the thing

[nimble zodiac]

Conqueror recognized for gun when 👀

[nocturne mauve]

Tbh the gun doesn’t save it either

[versed tide]

*Conquered

[prisma lava]

The FV215B 183 a.k.a. "Death Star", Needs a nerf, it's too powerful! you WG dudes can atleast improve it's accuracy and armor, just nerf the gun! it's too powerful! again I say, IT NEEDS A NERF!

#NerfTheDeathStar

[nimble zodiac]

That would actually be a net buff so uhh
Reword?

[silent hare]

Yo wargaming balance on tier 7 pls

[quasi axle]

183 doesn't really need a nerf the accuracy is trash enough that it can't hesh pen that reliably

[teal palm]

The 183 has literally no camo, no speed, armour, no gun handling. The only thing going for it is the big damage

[rare sleet]

Someone got nuked i can tell, if you get nuked it usually means you made an error considering how terrible the 183 is everything except meme-ing. But no matter how bad it is, the big gun is very fun

[silk hamlet]

thats why its called the deathstar

[nimble zodiac]

He watched a super replay of a 183 player (against a really dumb team) 10.7k damage, 6 kills, and Kolobanovs

[prisma lava]

well atleast WG can buff them, but just nerf the gun

[teal palm]

Nerfing the gun would turn it into a bootleg jag e100

[quasi axle]

why would you buff everything else but nerf the gun

[stray verge]

If you get hit by a 183, you either made a terrible mistake or you already won the engagement

[stiff edge]

^

[sudden path]

Nah 183 is the worst tank in tier 10
It's also the most fun

[fluid frost]

I actually fear more of jageroo or WT rather than DS

[unique scaffold]

Please, nerf arl44 T8 gun penetration, 200mm pen is too much against T6, and a 12mm pen nerf is still useless. Just have too see which tanks performs too much in tournament and you will see full arl44 teams all the time because it is mobile, it has pen, it has armor and it has dpm. Just nerf one of those thing please.

[plush perch]

Oml finally someone who agrees that at tanks arent bad

[golden turret]

Dude the 183 is already bad enough. Not only does it have armor that tier 4s can pen, but it’s accuracy is beyond the broadside of a barn, the reload time is massive, it doesn’t have a lot of ammo, and it has a fear factor so usually it gets targeted every single match on top of being slow. So stop crying and get good.

[rancid trellis]

Yo they deleted my skill based match making comment -_-

[nimble zodiac]

They have perfect reason to
This isn’t the channel for it

[rancid trellis]

@nimble zodiac then which channel is? Because as far as I’m aware this channel is labeled “balance” and my suggestion would fall under the category of “balancing” the game instead of battle outcome being pre determined for you to fail no matter what you do from the beginning due to “bad luck” but hey what do I know right?

[jagged crescent]

Probably not this channel 🤓

[near warren]

Remove fail platoons from tier 8-10
And before you ping me, no i dont fail platoon

[nimble zodiac]

Don’t fail toon? 🤨

[rancid trellis]

@jagged crescent Well color me stupid 😅 I completely forgot to read the pinned messages on this channel. I even read in the rules to check, my apologies guys!

[jagged crescent]

lawl

[finite atlas]

What does that even mean?

[near warren]

Basically a platoon with 2 different tiers. Like tier 9 and 8 platoon. They sometimes go to upper tier mm and at times the lower tier cant do anything especially tier 8s against tier xs

[nimble zodiac]

Which is the main reason you keep the same teir tanks in your platoon

[jagged crescent]

When the 113 is now going to have instead of relatively awful turret traverse but now relatively average turret traverse

[unique scaffold]

Read the pinned message

[outer glen]

Lmao i still dont understand why this kind of player that didnt know how to face a 183 the 183 doesnt need any nerf anymore
The rebalance will not work bcuz jg already have 800 alpha with better accuracy than 183 and much better armor the 183 should get speed at least dont touch other thing lol

The 215b shouldnt get a nerf they will nerf the speed boost its ok why nerf the gun tho

[full token]

he asked for a rebalance rather than just a nerf. He has a fair point imo but it would be an unpopular decision since the 183 is popular due to the gun

[empty nexus]

• it would never work. If you always face players of equal skill you’ll go from 60% wr to 50% wr, cuz well, if you are equally skilled then you have an equal chance of winning

[quasi axle]

yay!!

[uneven narwhal]

The gun is the signature of the 183
It basically does not have anything else going for it
It does not have a fully traversable turret, it's not very mobile, it has terrible armor and terrible accuracy to top it off

The huge alpha is the only reason the play the 183, sometimes tryna have some fun while trying not to go insane at the horrible gun handling
The 183 is fine where it is, a nerf will make it more unplayable and a buff is certainly not needed

[golden turret]

Looks like someone doesn’t know how to play the tank.

[gleaming apex]

BUBER1238#9580 was muted

Warning logged for PhillyFlingo_#0667. I couldn't DM them.

[copper oriole]

Literally, the IS 4 nerf is totally unfair as basically, any medium can literally circle death it and get it in-to ashes.

[uneven narwhal]

IS-4 has a very good gun, excellent armor profile, decent speed as well
It can do everything and is the meta HT of T10

You can't use a logic that "it's weak when circled" as a suitable argument
Literally every damn heavy tank is weak when circled and yet, HTs are still meta

If a med is circling you, you either are alone with no backup, which is ur fault, or you are with your team, in which case the med circling you gets deleted

[leaden flare]

oh god pls use brain circle of death is one of the rarest things in random battles and u mightve forgotten that ur russian armor bounces shots it shouldnt bounce and cod doesnt work very well if you have cover anywhere near you

[outer glen]

Imagine get circled in town area

[unique scaffold]

Imagine arguing that a IS-4 nerf is unfair…

[copper oriole]

Literally, this is being looked at from one perspective which is obviously would be not a relevant argument.

- The IS-4 and Kranvagn will lose 150 HP each and a few degrees in turret traverse speed: Kranvagn turret rotation speed change will be more significant than IS-4's. Thus, it will be more comfortable for MTs to fight against these HTs (it will be easier to outmaneuver them) and TDs will have easier life countering them as well.

Apparently, "it will be more comfortable for MTs to fight against these HTs". Literally, any medium tank user who knows how to use his tank would literally outpower the IS 4.

Also, circle of deaths aren't rare, are you even realizing that I'm talking about a Tier X tank, lol? Who doesn't know how to use his tank while being a Tier X? Literally every medium circle deaths any heavy tank, even a few mediums too.

Imagine get circled in town area
you don't know which map I was in, so please don't talk about it.

[sharp saddle]

Circle of death is easily preventable anyway. All comes down to the users positioning with cover and teammates.
If you get caught out in the open and isolated, you deserve to be circled and killed

[uneven narwhal]

Would you like to explain how "any medium tank" will outpower the IS-4?
The mediums have literally nothing except DPM and mobility over the IS-4
Any IS-4 that loses to a med in fair situations (both full HP) is most certainly a nub

Also circle of deaths are very rare unless you are isolated
If you get caught out in the open in an IS-4 without any ally backup, it's not the tanks fault, it's your own

[untold peak]

Super consumables are the reason heavies outclass mediums and ruin tank-diversity in tournaments.

The competitive scene is dying, unless multiple tank-classes can have their strengths and weaknesses. As of now, the current meta is not balanced at all, and heavies completely outclass mediums.

Until super consumables are removed on heavies, heavies will always outclass medium tanks and our current meta will not nearly be as good as 2017-2018 tournaments.

Thank you for listening. :)

[remote oriole]

I don’t know, I haven’t seen a single circle of death in years, just a lot of attempts at it that ended in the next house/rock/wreck or the death of the person trying to do it. Literally only slow tds fail to turn fast enough to keep up and most of them just drive to a wall and squeeze the medium away from their sides.

Circle of death is dead, and it has been dead since at least 2018

[rare sleet]

if an is4 is in a position that allows themselves to be COD by a medium, you playing is4 wrong

[full token]

Won’t make any difference since the current armor is quite thin

[uneven narwhal]

Buffing speed would be better

[outer glen]

Is4 is really good and the nerf is fair wth u mean any meds can kill an is4 easily skill issue right there its fair enough i have is4 and idrc about the nerf the nerf is not too big tbh

[near warren]

What about when u solo queue huh? And u have a useless failtoon on ur team?

[full token]

tell them not to fail toon
anyway theres always equal numbers of fail toons on each team

[candid steeple]

I don't know about that but I know that it's unfair for Maus to recieve smaller nerf then IS-4 when it's much better then IS-4. -150 hp to IS-4 hurts a lot more then Maus losing 150 hp. Also IS-4 is a lot easier tank to pen then Maus but people tend to not get it.

Btw I fought against 60TP today. And I gotta say if you are running calibrated shells and if you are face hugging it you can esealy pen it's upper hull plate with standard ammo. I did it with AMX 50 B today and penned it 3 times in the upper plate. It seems that 60TP will be only good at medium range and not as good in close range. Well it's interesting way to see how they will balance the tank. Tank seems to have few weaknesses and that's cool in my opinion. Lower plate is too small ether way.

In my opinion IS-4 and Kran should lose 100 hp and not 150. IS-4 and IS-7 having same hp is dumb in my opinion. Also I feel like IS-4 hp is getting nerfed because of 60TP. It's their new heavy tank and they don't want IS-4 to be better in hp values then it since tanks got almost the same armor profiles.

Ether way if they are nerfing kran I probably will not even think about playing it. I already said this before. Tank is not fun to play. Limiting tank more and more with mobility nerfs is just killing the pure thing. Yeah Kran has strong turret but what else? Well I will just say rip to any fun playing Kran. WG is not trying to rebalance it, if they think it's too strong but I don't think so, but they are actually making it even less fun to play. Imagine removing that speed boost from Kran. Jeez not a single player in this game would play it. It would instantly fall down to rock bottom because that terrible mobility.

[golden turret]

well, not every tank has 10 degrees of gd

[near warren]

Ya think theyll listen? Thatll be an improvement. Y dont u talk to em then

[uneven narwhal]

IS-4 needed the nerf, it's a extremely strong heavy tank with good armor, decent speed, good gun, also 2800 HP with Improved Assembly?
It's fair enough imo, you still have that lovely armor and gun

Also, the Kran is a prime example of why super consumables are a bad idea
They could just remove them and buff Kran's engine power if they deem it not relevant enough
The nerf might be a bit too harsh at -12deg/s agreed, but Kran is still a stronge tank
Impenetrable hulldown, and that auto-reloader

[unique scaffold]

There’s 8.2 open test with testers and you’re not participating in it right? So why do you even discuss?

[candid steeple]

And why are you even trying to be smart? I saw it I wrecked it and I know how I beated it. You probably know better then me and inspected 60TP in knowledge database but still come here and comment why do we discuss?

Also I play and IS-4 and Kran and got 200+ games on Kran and 700+ games on IS-4 so I probably got no idea what I am talking about nor did I beat those tanks countless times.

Tho I saw few people with 55% accounts playing 60TP. Tank seems balanced because it's full of holes like VK 72, because WG likes supper heavy full of holes, but because more less experienced players are playing the tank and tank ain't broken there will probably be complaints of tank being weak. I just hope for WG to not big time buff it.

[unique scaffold]

progetto - emil 1- somua sm ->are broken !! are 9 tier tank on tier 8 ! wg are greedy and no fair company

[uneven narwhal]

Last time I checked, discuss was the verb form of discussion

[keen estuary]

the gargoyle have more points of penetatrion

[twin egret]

Spaced/track armour needs to be improved idk, their mechanics seem funky with how they work atm

[drowsy plaza]

@unique scaffold maybe it’s just you…

[real bison]

never been able to CoD a good IS-4 player, maybe because they’re good?2?2?

[drowsy plaza]

@candid steeple honestly you are probably the most confusing poster here after @unique scaffold As far as number of games, experience doesn’t equate skill.

[unique scaffold]

y gargoyle have more pen on he as PZSF and kill PZSF on 2 shots aim is too high//// kvs have same hp as meds ? how is this balance 1 med kill poor kvs if 1 miss or do as usual 350 dmg !! meds have more dpm hp as heavy only diference is 8 tier -------- if no understand no tell or mension

[candid steeple]

Well I can't defend against that when I just gave numbers. Also I overreacted there. Tho I don't think that I am confusing.

One shot from KV-1S tends to cripple meds for the entire game so you can't really complain about that. Also KV-1S is not a tank that is supposed to go all in. If you do that you are playing it wrong. You take a shot send half of enemies hp home and go back to cower and watch him think twice before he tries to poke you again.

[nimble zodiac]

He's frying my brain
High caliber guns tend to have greater penetration with HE, KV-1S does have lower HP for a heavy but it's still higher than mediums. Only a few mediums if not one that have way too much HP like BPan have more HP than KV-1S

The usual damage on AP penetration for KV-1S is 400, don't low-ball it because you remember a few times you rolled low

[drowsy plaza]

@candid steeple You where talking about tier X now you just jumped to tier 6. It’s really hard to follow what you are taking about.

[candid steeple]

That's why I left space between two texts and since timer is 10 minutes till I can send next text I have to edit. I don't have luxury of sending a massage whenever I want. No offense tho.

[drowsy plaza]

I was just not following you at all. Your previous two comments where about tier X tanks. Then you jumped to tier 6 and the KV-1S. To address that 400 alpha while it hurts a tier 5-6 med isn’t crippling. The 122mm in tier 6 is much more akin to a TD gun in X as far as relative HP alpha, but the KV pays for that with poor armor and low DPM, and relatively poor gun handling.

[leaden flare]

IS 4 Armor is much better then Maus because it's nearly always effective while maus can only really angle against 1 target and even if angled the heavy cs can pen the cheeks or upper plate when beeing on close combat

[candid steeple]

In my opinion KV-1S is a good tank. I got some experience with it but my only problem right now is and why I no longer play KV-1S is that nerf to it's pen. Tier VI is ruined by ani and smasher and WG decided to nerf it's pen like they deliberately made it worse at fighting overbuffed armor of higher tier heavies. I no longer play it and will probably not play it until they bring it's old pen. ARL is allowed to have 200mm pen but they nerf KV-1S pen. That's my biggest problem with the tank and in my opinion everything else is balanced around the tank as compensation for that big alpha.

You know in WoT PC they had to remove KV-1S from the game because it was way to broken and it was the same like KV-1S before pen nerf.

[nimble zodiac]

The penetration is still viable, and with the reload buff I’d prefer it. It can still pen Anni and Smasher, and idk why WoTPC removed it, is their game really that unbalanced that they’d rather remove a tank than nerf it?

[drowsy plaza]

160mm of pen is fine in tier 6. The ARL is a terrible example as it has better base pen than the T32 in tier 8 and almost the same DPM. Anything over 145mm base AP pen is workable in a tier 6 heavy.

[leaden flare]

It was the god of T6

They removed it as KV1s and introduced KV 85 which is basically the same just different gun and overall worse even tho the gun had same DMG
KV 1s was made a T5 and nerfed quite a bit without its good gun

[nimble zodiac]

In WoTC it has a pretty fun derp gun, though it’s been a while

[candid steeple]

Ah yes 145mm pen on 0.375 dispersion. Good luck even penning tier V heavies let alone tier VII. KV-1S was KV-1S for me because of that pen, alpha and speed. They nerfed one of those 3 things and tank is dead for me. T-150 is better tank then it now. KV-2 HE pen got nerfed but armor got buffed. KV-1S pen got nerfed but armor went up. I would much prefer old pen then 1-2s faster reload. I wonder why calibrated shells are now a thing and no longer gun rammer. WG is overbuffing armor and any pen nerf that is not ARL is a big loss. I am not supporting KV-1S nerf not even a bit. It didn't deserve it when all tier VII tanks got 155mm of armor or more. Shooting gold reduces your already bad dpm.

@rancid trellis 3600 dpm with best despersion in the game. Make it have troll turret and that's a recipe for a disaster. Can we stop wanting more and more medium tank turret buffs? Leo 1 is underrated and I got friends that play that tank really good. Improve your skill and you will find buffing it's armor unfair.

[rancid trellis]

I have a great idea for some balance how bout we make the leopard 1 gun mantlet not so easily penned because apparently everything can slice right thru it when you can’t pen nothing the rest of the turret is fine but the mantlet? Really?

[lunar niche]

Higher alpha and pen for Leo 1.

[rancid trellis]

@candid steeple the turret is fine the fact that anything can literally pierce the mantlet is the issue they don’t even have to aim I’m completely fine with every other aspect of the tank but when heavies can snap shot your turret with no worry because a tier 6 can pen it any where is unreasonable I’m not meaning the whole turret just the mantlet even the vickers has a thicker mantlet I’ve had to literally play it like a td and camp to keep t62s and wzs from just snap shooting completely thru my turret I understand every other aspect of it is incredible I just feel it’s slightly unfair that you can’t even troll bounce a light tank to punish them with that dpm. It’s literally at most 160mm of armor at any angle facing forward my opinion could be unjust but I feel it should atleast be a little thicker personally

[nimble zodiac]

The problem is that such a quick and powerful tank would be too strong if it had armor too

[leaden flare]

First of all KV1s has 160mm of AP pen that's more than enough
The DPM + makes it much more useful
It has pretty good mobility so find a way to use it
If you need so much pen I'd call that a skill issue even meds at T8 only get 175mm pen or Smth like that so a t6 shouldnt have much issues with 160mm pen

[candid steeple]

AH yes I got skill issue. No, this is my preference specially with crazy heavy tank armor buffs. I mean so most people got skill issues at tier X because they are using calibrated shells and not gun rammer. I mean that's your logic right there. You know as heavy tank that is not based on dpm. Pen is better specially to make sure that one shot matters that you shoot.

[outer glen]

I prefer nowadays 1s than old one

[nimble zodiac]

Like KV-1S could pen ARL's frontal hull before the nerf 👀 (it couldn't, no use for a rebuff)

I find it easy to rack up those heavy shots

It's a well-perfoming tank anyways

[leaden flare]

For every half smart person that change is like a huge buff to kv1s focussing more on its playstyle of beeing a heavyium not a tank you brawl other heavys with

Do side shots or be close enough to get weakspots reliably those 15mm won't change the tank a whole lot but 2s less is a blessing now you can fight Off meds even better and you know what the HE works wonders against med side or rear taking away Thier hp in 15,2s

[twin egret]

That's like saying every tourney player had a skill issue if you say using cs is one

[candid steeple]

When you actually read what I am typing then comment.

[twin egret]

Well I dont bother reading your statements for numerous reasons, you blantantly come off as rude sounding and you don't even play blitz? You said so i believe

[leaden flare]

It's not even about tours there I get the usage of cs but in randoms you don't need cs

160 is more then enough for kv1s and the dpm instead of pen helps more than it hurts

[candid steeple]

You just made yourself sound even more stupid.

I don't like people who don't even read but comment on someone. Also I made my "I don't play blitz" as sarcastic as possible but people who read it with no thoughts ofc will take that literally. Why should I give you respect when you give me no respect. I am again sorry for defenetly not playing blitz for 5+ years but you know. Sarcasm is hard for some people to understand.

Well sarcastic this time is on purpose because my last sarcastic statement was even mention by another individual that it was sarcasm but I hear it now as me not even playing blitz as an insult.

[minor minnow]

Sarcasm is hard for some people, I agree. But you are making these sarcastic statements in a serious conversation

[winged barn]

This server is not really known for the brainpower used.

What you may think is obviously sarcasm is probably something that someone else has genuinely thought and put here before.

looks at all the people crying about maus nerf

[candid steeple]

I even confirmed later that it was sarcasm :(

I want Maus nerfed more.

[sweet salmon]

go back to whining

[proven kettle]

Bruuh

[candid steeple]

Go back to elementary school

I don't have remove spall liner tag for no reason. WG and their balance bruh big time.

[winged barn]

I have wanted spall liner purged since the introduction, but here we are

[silk stratus]

Why did my message about spall liner and why it should be nerfed got removed ?

[candid steeple]

That sometimes happens to me. Maybe moderator or someone deleted it. Tho it last time happened to me like a year ago so don't know. I saw your massage.

Well best rout is to purge Spall Liner but WG doesn't like their new toys removed so they will probably keep it. Look how long it took them to remove missiles even though entire community was screaming. Sad part now is that there is a lot of WT players since tank is overstated and they like their new no skill buff so they won't complain for their toy being even stronger now.

[hollow tundra]

I mainly wish the heavies and the E3 weren't nerfed to where they are completely useless

[quasi axle]

They're not being nerfed to where they are completely useless but ok

[dreamy oar]

At this point, the game would probably needs be entirely worked for any sense of balance to come to the game

[twin egret]

AMX M4 49 is so pitiful

[nimble zodiac]

By pitiful you mean balanced

[twin egret]

Accuracy is troll

[rare sleet]

So anything that gets a nerf becomes completely useless now right? ok.

[hollow tundra]

Depends on how much the nerf is

[nimble zodiac]

Yeah but they won’t be completely useless 🤔

[twin egret]

E3 won't be useless, it will just be less effective

[thorny mirage]

There is no useless tank in the game bro.. There is only useless player ✌️

[bronze linden]

yeah, use brain

[storm hatch]

Idk man tog is pretty useless tbh

[nimble zodiac]

It really isn’t.

@storm hatch TOG is the best 1v1 tank in tier 6, with good DPM and massive HP to use. Of course the game isn’t 1v1 but one tank can’t fight a TOG alone and win if the TOG has a few brain cells

[storm hatch]

Tell me then a situation that the TOG would exceed in, that another tank can’t do better

[thorny mirage]

Then why there is many tournaments tier 6 filled with many of togs? Its replace maus's role in tier 6

[outer glen]

Imagine saying a tank useless

[nimble zodiac]

TOG is just a tier 6 Maus without too much armor (and genuinely more HP vs tier 6 than Maus has vs tier 10)

[thorny mirage]

FYI Tog has 1550 hp which is the second highest HP compare to tier 7 heavies even its a tier 6

[jagged crescent]

bruh the is4 is literally gonna have more base dpm than the e5

[split minnow]

Ikr

[scarlet fjord]

is WG seriously gonna nerf IS-7's turret?

[full token]

It’s a strong tank but you’re a tier 7. You’d have a harder time against many tier 8s. And being alone against a tank like that doesn’t help either. If you had more teammates around you you’d have an easier time

[leaden flare]

What does he expect youd loose in almost every heavy if you're alone in the open

[twin egret]

Just lose lesser ;3

[uneven narwhal]

Did you just really say that an auto reloader with has more damage potentian in 3 shots than your lower tier heavy has in one shot?
Why were you in the open anyways bruh
That could've been literally any other T8 medium/light and you still would've lost that

[unique scaffold]

@full token team mates want camp ! want flank all map --- this is my team mates --- usless noobs as you ! 😦

[candid steeple]

When I started thinking about heavy nerfs. You see that heavies only got a hp buff. But now WG giving tanks for idiot proof buff that doesn't need skill but now they are nerfing the most important things about heavies. I honestly think that WG is starting to ruin heavies yet again. Heavies got a hp buff of 200 or maybe a bit more to bring them back into the meta but WG after that started buffing all meds and now they are limiting and making heavies less flexible on purpose. Like I don't know what to say on this WG choices. If WG is legit again starting to make heavies weaker but keeps meds that are 5 times better then meds before heavy hp buffs. WG should seriously reconsider if they know how to balance the game out. Heavies should not be just one dimensional tanks that medium drivers want them to be. Heavies should have some flexibility and certainly heavies SHOULD NOT be balanced around special consumables. If I see all heavies getting a nerf but meds still havign their armor, dpm, gun depression buffs with WG just making them easier and easier to play while making heavies dumber and dumber to play. Like wtf are this balance choices. I support some nerfs but so many nerfs are so wrong. You CAN NOT balance heavies of special consumables. REMOVE that and then balance heavies. DO NOT MAKE USING SPECIAL CONSUMABLES MANDATORY. Like honestly. Every tournament tank is E5 or Kran because special consumables and Maus because it's overstated. Meta is ruined because of special consumables and WG is not adressing that but nerfing what made heavy that heavy for years. Like FV and E5. Guns haven't been changed much since release and now they are changing that the thing making heavy what it is because they are forcing special consumables. Like why WG logic sucks so much. Why are meds getting mega buffs as excuse for heavies but then WG starts giving heavies big time nerfs. Maus and IS-4 nerfs are good but everything else is a total bs in how they are doing that.

[uneven narwhal]

@unique scaffold Bruh you are a unicum at T5 average tier, and you're winning 60% of ur games as per ur 30d WR
Everyday you come here and make illogical arguments about one situations in which you lost due to a very apparent skill issue

The only T8 tanks you've ever played are the Tiger 2 and E 75 TS

You are literally seal clubbing, WINNING and still whining about teams
Like what more do you want??
80% WR 3k average damage, or the entire game tailored to suit yourself??

You are a seal clubber, that's where your stats come from

Stop. Complaining.

[twin egret]

They could've easily just buff the meds, and tweaked the pen on heavies, remove the super consumables, and thats it, as well as tweaked underperforming tanks

[full token]

If they keep nerfing heavies they’ll end up with strong unnerfed premiums, since those get buffed with the other tanks, but don’t get nerfed when others are nerfed. At some point they’ll have to stop nerfing heavies and instead just buff everything else. It’s easier if they also nerfed premiums but they’d rather take the extra work than just making premiums nerfs a normal thing

[thorny mirage]

Ooooooof....stop beating him... He's already dead

[remote oriole]

Only buffing isn’t the solution either, we already have excessively fast and accurate tanks and there are limits to how far you can go with these statistics before making them meaningless or before breaking the game

[candid steeple]

I honestly think that they should just revert to everything how it was 3 years ago. Cancel all changes to all tanks in all tiers and start from scratch. Bring skill back in the game and bring back old tech tree so people have some fun in low tiers. I don't think that even new players like every gun doing same thing.

I may sound absurd but WG at this point is just going in circle with their buffs. We buff something but we made something else weaker so we will buff that something else weaker but then something else is again weaker so we will again buff that something else that is weaker and on and on and on and on. And then they will start nerfing but keeping premiums broken and who knows what they will ruin else because of some other buffs or nerfs. This balancing patter to me seems retarded.

[remote oriole]

Powercreep in a nutshell

[twin egret]

Hehe 40km FV4202
But yeah, thw whole start from scratch thing doesnt sound that bad rly

[leaden flare]

but how do you go back to scratch on the later added meds and heavys

u want a test lvl kran that had super speed and 40kmh ?
or a amx m4 54 that was op as hell

[nimble zodiac]

Can we get a name and shame for that? 👀

@fossil marten crate tanks recently have been pretty balanced in general, name an unbalanced tank in stores rn

[fossil marten]

Great post 👏 in a nutshell, the game is broken and it’s beyond fixing. And WG don’t give a 💩 as long as everyone is buying crates to try and win the next shiny op, unbalanced premium or collector tank.

[hot fiber]

Real question : who asked for the 215B to be nerfed ? 🧏🏻‍♀️🧏🏻‍♀️🧏🏻‍♀️🧏🏻‍♀️🧏🏻‍♀️

[tropic blaze]

Literally u c:

[outer glen]

Lol ur the one who sealclub and doesnt even want to buy a tier9

[hollow tundra]

True dat

[drowsy plaza]

@candid steeple I don’t know where you have been but it’s been a heavy centric meta since the 2.7 med nerfs and it got worse with 3.8 and 3.9. The heavies where already over performing before the HP buff.

[wicked sluice]

@unique scaffold dude,what do you expect at t5? Also you are obviously not a better Player since you mostly play t5/6 and cry about the teams

[quasi pagoda]

are u guys really devsa

[rotund harness]

Pardon. I heard they were a gift for Switch with T2 Medium, 1.000 Gold, etc... Is it true ? If yes, how to get it ?

[plush perch]

@quasi pagoda yes we are devs, people with red and purple names are devs

[quasi pagoda]

ok

how many devs are there

[winged barn]

7

[candid steeple]

Before heavy buffs it was fast meta. I don't see heavies in any resemblance to that meta name.

Also I gotta wonder. So E5 is getting it's turret rotation nerf and dpm nerf. Now there is Cheiftain which has almost 3200 dpm and T95E6 which has 2850 dpm and both tanks got 10 degree of gun depression which Chieftain also has more hp then E5. Also both tanks go faster then E5 (42 km/h) and both tanks got considerably better turret armor's with commanders hatches that only accurate gun can hit or with rng luck.

Like I need to know why this 2 stronger tanks then E5 are not getting nerfed but E5 is getting hard time slapped. Why both those tanks got top speed of E5 when it uses special consumable but E5 is still the tank that is getting nerfed but two stronger tanks and more manuverable are not even touched or talked about. I mean all 3 tanks were supposed to be similar and E5 is only one getting nerfed as a tank because it's not premium like other two.

I mean this just shows how terrible WG balance team is. They don't give a.

[winged barn]

Something to note:
The e5 has significantly more armor than those two.

It has superconsumables.
It has sandbags, giving it more hp than those two.

[stiff edge]

simple: they're premiums
said it yourself

[drowsy plaza]

E5 cupola is significantly smaller than E6 or Mk6 Chieftain. The Mk6 doesn’t have high pen prammo.

I mean you can’t even compare the Mk6 currently to the E5 as it’s not even close.

The E6 is a glorified slow med with more HP and a bigger gun.

[lunar niche]

Superconsumables mate

[sharp saddle]

It is much easier to deal with a hulldown chieftain than it is an E5.
I always see people say the Chieftain turret is really good, but I don’t think it is - it’s not that resilient really.

[quasi axle]

it is pretty good if you don't count the cupola

[full token]

Yes but you can’t hide the cupola really

[tulip mural]

Gold shell moment

[rancid trellis]

Is it unreasonable to think that chimera hesh pen could be buffed to match non premium charioteer hesh? 90mm w/o calibrated 105-110mm with? It’s a 127mm gun the charioteer is only 105mm it wouldn’t be very OP due to the fact you’ve got a 14 sec reload

[hearty steeple]

Yes it is quite unreasonable to think so. Chimera is currently the best tier 8 med, one of the strongest tier 8s. The gun already hits really hard, buffing HE on it is the last thing you should be doing. Cancel that, buffing it is the last thing you should be thinking of and then get back to reality

[dense walrus]

read pinned and git gud

[outer glen]

Ah yes bruh

[slim trellis]

Löwe should go 5km faster

[outer glen]

Nope cent1 need that 5km or 10km

[wispy hinge]

T95 10km or 7km faster because is so slow and

[rose swift]

is this the same chimera that already has the highest average win rate of any tier 8 tank

[dreamy oar]

Don’t forget that it has the REACTIVE ARMOR consumable

[candid steeple]

And don't forget that it has 450 alpha with 10 degree gun depression with also unpenetratable mantler cowering almost entire turret. Yeah tank needs a buff lmao.

Don't forget that WG nerfed T-34-2 because it was tech tree compeating with chimera but it was still far worse and not meta but WG still nerfed it. Terrible accuracy and 175mm pen. So they go and nerf it's already mediocer mobility. How dare there be a tank that resembles premium just a bit.

[dreamy oar]

It also has the highest pen of all t8( I think and I’m not counting the 25 pounders bc they have the lowest damage of the meds). The chimera has 218mm of pen and if we take into account of normalization, it’s even higher. If anything the chimera needs a nerf to it’s pen. Hell even the Chinese 122 which do 400 dmg have a lot less pen than the chimera

[golden turret]

You’re trolling, right?

[distant river]

440 alpha* and the mantlet isn't impenetrable or very large, as seen against panther 2 without CS (13/30 in tier 8 meds for pen has ~25% chance to pen mantlet, ~50% to pen turret front at 100m)

[outer glen]

The mantlet only have like 200mm+ yea low pen tanks can't pen it lol

[candid steeple]

Ye I just noticed when I inspected. Still it ate my shot so many times so I don't know.

For tier VIII medium 200 armor is still a lot specially when you have that big alpha.

Specially when we mention that Chimera has more dpm then almost all heavy tanks and it has bigger alpha then almost all heavy tanks. Nothing about the gun is balanced on that tank and it also has armor to back it up with good mobility.

Should I continue with 0.326 on that big caliber of the gun and 2s aiming time. Like is there just a single stat that is not overstated on Chimera gun?

For example T-34-2 that they nerfed because who knows why has 0.389 dispersion with 175 mm pen. Tho I just now noticed that it has 1s aiming time. That's nice actually.

[wicked quest]

The sides are basically t49 proof btw

[rancid trellis]

That actually wasn’t meant for this channel I just had got the tank and meant to mention it in vehicles discussion which I had selected prior to playing the tank and then came back and not sure how the channels got mixed up I never said it SHOULD be buffed but that it COULD be buffed because it has less HESH pen than a tank with a smaller caliber gun y’all have blown this wayyyyy out of proportion

[candid steeple]

Just mentioning that something about chimera should be better will light the fuse of people. Tank is so broken that it's auto of the league of tier VIII. Buff hp of it and you got better tier IX the most tier IX tanks. Chimera, 252, WZ FT and Shark are tanks that you don't mention that are weak in any shape or form. Or people will jump. This has been a topic for a while that this tanks you don't mention as needing something. They need big time nerfs and nothing else.

[rancid trellis]

@candid steeple that’s my bad I wasn’t aware of how OP it is I just wanted it because I’m collecting the premiums and everything I never meant to set anyone off nor had I ever had an issue with going against it in game but I don’t play ratings nor do I do tourneys and mostly play alone, but the 252 and shark are top tier I don’t like facing those tanks in battle just never knew what the chimera was. The only tank I absolutely hate and wish that had a nerf so bad is the dang annihilator

[leaden flare]

Wz 120 g ft is slowly getting powercreept to a decent spot nowadays you have to think a bit more and angle better to get good use of it

[candid steeple]

It's not just about armor. It has crazy dpm and everything else going for the gun with troll armor and amasing mobility. Tank only lost a bit on being OP because WG buffed armor of tanks and people got used to where to shoot the tank or just load gold. Loading gold is problem for most tanks so you can hardly complain about it.

[twin egret]

Also the WZ only has 1200 HP

[outer glen]

The wz was op b4 the hp buff on heavies also armor buff

[candid steeple]

100-200 more hp wont make much of a difference when tank still has 1000+ more dpm then heavies while being faster then them and while having 5 times better cammo then heavies. Tank is a bit weaker but still formidable. khmm OP.

[thorny mirage]

@candid steeple omg how the hell u r not tired typing all of those things

[candid steeple]

Well I type something and then I leave and after some time I again come and see what people sent and comment again. What? Typing ain't hard when you do it half fast. Also those are edits after edits. It piles up fast so it looks much but it's typed in different times.

[distant river]

It's hp deficit is actually gigantic and has a huge say in how effective it can be, this is in a straight dpm Vs hp race against a 110 (not exactly known for its dpm or alpha, in fact it's 63/94 at tier 8). In fact put it against almost any heavy in a straight dpm Vs hp race and it loses.

It used to be able to yolo any tank it saw and win a 1v1 with ease, because it didn't see 4 heavies per game and meds didn't have the pen or hp to last long. Now it has to fight against people that can pen it easily, who also have huge amounts of hp to farm through. It's simply too fragile to be op rn. It's a good tank yes but not good enough to be labeled op.

Nice it got the wrong ss, the wz110 survives with 200hp btw

[candid steeple]

Caernarvor is the most useless tier VIII heavy and all it got is high dpm and nothing else. I don't like your comparison but what you said about more heavies is true in fact but now pare IS-3 against WZ and see how well it goes. WZ is still broken but it needs more skill since you can't be as much exposed as before.

In my opinion it's a good tank but it got overshadowed by jag 8.8 in fighting heavies since jag got 2 complete overbuffs in a row.

Ah Honourless I am going off now so I probably wont be seeing your new post ether way.

k

[distant river]

IS3 gets an impenetrable turret, and almost half as much hp again as the 120ft in return for gun stats and mobility. The advantage of the turret is gigantic let alone the armour it has, but it'd mainly personal preference on what is better for the individual.

The main thing that made it op before was the stupid ability to pick out a tank, laugh, then delete it in a 1v1. Now it is just a good support tank. It's comparable to an isu really

[dreamy oar]

By armor, do u mean just the turret armor bc the hull armor is kind of weak

[nimble zodiac]

ISU-152, capable of having 3742 DPM:

[thick rover]

yeah I feel like 120FT used to be op and now it's still strong but I don't think it's op

[drowsy plaza]

99% of folks playing the 120 FT are at best bots these days. I don’t think I’ve seen one break 500 damage in the last 50 or so I have seen

[unique scaffold]

if this is the place for suggestions, i suggest 1 respawn in rating battles, or do 2 rounds with the players mixed up and same tank, that way people can aim to improve on their last attempt?

[nimble zodiac]

The improvement should be carried on to the next matchup though ._.

And this isn’t the place for suggestions unless it’s about a change to a tank’s stats

[golden turret]

Can you not read? This channel is to talk about tank balance, not what you think wargaming should add/remove. Also this seems to be a MM complaint.

[uneven narwhal]

Honestly why did the E5 need such a harsh nerf?
WG you could've just removed the super consumables and called it a day

[lament prism]

why the hell did they nerf is 4

[uneven narwhal]

Currently a borderline overpowered tank because it has everything?
Decent speed, lovely armor, good gun, hulldown capabilities, ridiculous HP

@quick lichen ye ik
I'm saying that if the E5 so badly needed to be nerfed as if WGs life depended upon it removing super consumables was a better nerf

[quick lichen]

E5 and 215b didn’t need to be nerfed

[quick lichen]

I have a challenge for you. Scroll through #devs-answers and tell me the last update that the Is4 wasn’t in the top 3 for heavy tank rankings. I’ll wait here patiently while you scroll. It’ll take a while

Is4 and maus are top 2 like 80%+ for the last 3 years

[drowsy plaza]

Since 5.4 when WG started posting them the IS-4 has been in the top 2…

I strongly suspect that going back to 2.7 (the end of high tier med dominance with the great med pen and turret nerfs) if WG had charts it would be top back then too.

I mean one could have expected a nerf to heavies after the 5.4 charts…. But wait they got buffed. 👎

[quasi pagoda]

why is slowdown here

[nimble zodiac]

So people cannot rapidly send messages? 👀

[frozen patrol]

Please give some gun elevation to amx 13 75

[jagged crescent]

rip e5 + 215b dpm tho

[leaden flare]

I'd consider ISU better because its playstyle is much more toxic and it has the ability to oneshot people and has more dpm

Hardly comparable tho cuz 1 fights at the front the other holds back a bit more

[coarse harness]

E5 needed a nerf but the DPM change is overkill
I'm fine with the turret traverse and especially with the speed boost nerf

[uneven narwhal]

Every tank has problems with hills unless it's like 10 deg of gun depression

[candid steeple]

E5 only needs that speed boost removed and other special consumable. Touching anything else on that tank is same as killing the tank. But I love how WG is slam nerfing heaviums that are good against mediums but at the same time buffing turret armor and dpm on mediums. Like what is WG smoking. They are making those med buffs even stronger. WHy are they still buffing mediums when they are starting to nerf heavies. This game is going to be a ca*cer if heavies get nerfed and all meds are still with those massive overbuffs. I will repeat this again They gave heavies 200-300 hp but now they are nerfing that and at the same time nerfing other characteristicks of the tanks while mega buffing mediums at the same time. I will just say this. For how medium tanks are dumb right now to play game will be terrible if speed meta gain becomes what it used to be before hp buffs. I don't get what WG is trying to do but I sure know I don't want meds as meta when they are in this ridiculous state that only heavies can counter at the moment.

Like WG just stop. Meds are no longer same as they used to be. Better dpm, better turret armor, some got more gun depression. Actually so many meds got turret armor buff. I hope you all medium tank drivers are happy for getting dumber and easier meds to play.

WG has made this logic for people to think that if their tank doesn't have armor then it's a bad tank. Like they are destroying the mentality of their own community.

[full token]

they havent removed all the hp heavies got. Heavies did well before the hp buffs and consumables

what better turrets? you keep bringing that up when someone told you most meds still have worse turrets

[unique scaffold]

There is a reason that players play some heavies as mediums…. Because short of view range some of them can do the job of a medium better than a medium. Heavies needed to be dialed back. Making heavies a bit more team dependent isn’t going to create a medium meta. It just isn’t. It is going to improve the playability of other classes while putting heavies back into the place they should have been all along.

While I’m not happy that super consumables had an influence on how these balance changes went down, I’m largely happy with the final result.

These changes will more than likely result in a better experience for all tank classes. Not just heavies.

And that is a good thing 👍

[hearty steeple]

Yes, I am looking forward for 8.2. apart from one or two changes, most balance changes were much needed. And should improve tier 10 experience even more

[sharp saddle]

It is overall good balance changes, but with some questionable decisions.

[stiff edge]

215b

[drowsy plaza]

@candid steeple I’m not sure if you were playing at 2.7, but they absolutely gutted the tier X meds. Nerfing pen and turret armor. Now some of those where needed, but since that date heavies have been the dominant class. Let’s remember that heavies as a tank class died out realistically in the 50’s. It’s a game, so realism is dropped for balance. However, when you keep balance in mind, you can’t defend how 3.8 and beyond updates treated mediums.

[stuck acorn]

yeah. true. i got this WZ from a crate around half of month ago and played around 100 battles on it, at the start i expected it to be completly overpowered, but after few battles i realized how easy is to die in this tank. One mistake and you lose 1/3-1/2 of HP. Even if i still think this tank is great i wouldn't call it overpowered anymore. (if anybody wants to complain about my skill on this tank i have 2.4k avg on it so i know what i'm talking about)

[golden turret]

My brother has it and plays like one lol.

[unique scaffold]

Can somebody give me tips how to play the t54e1 stock?

[rose swift]

don’t, grind with it an sell the thing bc it’s complete trash

[unique scaffold]

Nope i dont sell it, caus i try to get the t57.thats why i ask for tips to play it

[drowsy plaza]

@unique scaffold better question for #vehicles-discussion but friends don’t let friends play stock tier 9 tanks.

[stiff edge]

especially if they're stock t9 meds

[warped pasture]

Maus has not been 80%+... If anything the Maus needs a buff instead of a nerf. It's perfectly balanced as-is.

Maybe this guy who replied to me didn't get it, but the Maus needs nothing. Doesn't need a buff, and it certainly doesn't need a nerf.

Also, devs answers is only from RU server, which has a totally screwed meta. If people didn't yolo rush like noobs all the time then the Maus would have a much lower winrate. They only take into account RU server when making their decisions, even though NA and EU are both bigger when combined and have playstyles where people don't just do really dumb stuff like trying to brawl a maus.

The only reason why the Maus has been up there with the IS-4 is because it has both hit points and armor, making it great for 1v1 or even 1v2 brawls. If RU players didn't play like bots and stopped yolo rushing all the time, then the Maus wouldn't be doing so well.

[rare sleet]

theres no actual way you believe that If anything else in the universe Maus rather needs a buff than a nerf.
@warped pasture Maus is one of the best performing heavy tanks in tier 10 a slight nerf shouldn't be so bad seriously.

[winged barn]

Probably doesn't realize that you shouldn't park on top of a ridge

[quick lichen]

The last time the Maus was outside the top 2 in win rate in #devs-answers was update 7.3 in November of 2020

[remote oriole]

He means that the two have been the top two best performing tanks in tier ten in more than 80% of the updates for the last three years

[quick lichen]

The next time the maus was outside the top 2 would be update 6.6 in January 2020 where it was 3rd…

Go read them for yourself. There’s a constant theme of IS-4 and the Maus being 1-2 together

They both needed to be nerfed but arguably the IS-4 needed it more

Furthermore…

It’s third on blitzstars

[quick lichen]

Hate to break it to you but those stats are all that wg care about. Dev answers runs the show

[warped pasture]

51.33% wr isn't that great overall. .83 damage ratio shows that the Maus is already not that great at dealing damage, so why nerf the gun? And also 510 battles? Plus, why nerf the Maus but not the AMX? Statistically, the AMX is doing better. And why nerf the 215b? It's already pretty much garbage, so why make it worse?

[quick lichen]

51.33% is very good considering it’s the average win rate for the tank and the average career win rate for players is 48%

But go on mate. Tell me more

[rare sleet]

Maus is one of my favorite tier 10 heavy tanks, and the nerf I assure isn't as bad as people make it out to be. Its quite the usual nerf and Maus will still perform very well.
I hate how when Wargaming tries to actual balance strong tanks the whole community thinks its the end of the world and all heavies will be completely useless garbage. All they nerfed was removing a little bit of hitpoints and reducing gun accuracy. If you are playing maus as a frontline sponge tank this will be a minimal nerf to what it can actually do.

@warped pasture Maus is supposed to be a shield, not a sword. The Gun is supposed to be weak at dealing damage as the main focus is on the protection.

Don't go around spouting the heavies never deserved to be nerfed because statistically they do.

[quick lichen]

They nerfed the dispersion so people aren’t sitting and sniping with it lol. Calm down

It won’t effect you when you use it correctly anyways

[winged barn]

Woah woah woah.
215b?

Lmao

[quick lichen]

I didn’t say they did a good job of interpreting it…

[quick lichen]

Because the maus has been god tier for 3 years

The AMX is also far more rare and mostly owned and played by better players going for stats

The 215b and even e5 nerfs are stupid and not needed at all

[wooden quest]

Considering the hitpoints of maus .83 damage ratio is inline with all the other tanks, a tank that is supposed to be weaker on the gunside, is performing just aswell as every other tank.

[quick lichen]

You should be within 100-200m for most of your shots with the maus anyways so a dispersion nerf shouldn’t do a whole lot

[rare sleet]

The reason why maus itself is so powerful even with a weaker gun is that Everyshot a maus takes and or ricochets, is a shot that isn't being used to take hitpoints off a teamate. So if in the beginning of a battle you get in the heat of the fight and start ricocheting bunch of shells your team will be much better off.
So generally when playing Maus I focus more on how many shots I can take, instead of how many shots I dish out. Damage I believe is the secondary objective.

[warped pasture]

It shouldn't until you have to weak spot snipe. The dispersion nerf is alright but the HP nerf is uncalled for. People might say "oh it's still so much hp!1!!!1!" But the truth is, that's what made the Maus the Maus

[quick lichen]

Bruh it should never have been over 3k in the first place. I would argue that the heavy hp buff should never have happened to begin with

I would prefer something like this
Is4 2400 again
Maus 2600-2700
Kran 2200
E5 2100
215b 2300
T57 2200
50b 2200

A maus shouldn’t have 1200 hp over a medium…

[hearty steeple]

here are the stats on blitzanalysis as well. maus nerf is warranted. also the tank is still going to play the same after nerf

[quick lichen]

You just can’t be quite as reckless lol

[candid steeple]

Maus nerf is like mosquito bite to the elephant compared to nerfs that WG is giving to Kranvagen, E5 or FV.

Maus needs to be nerfed more then anything else.

@drowsy plaza I probably didn't play during that time. Well I have been here for 5+ years and in the beginning it took me like year or two to get into tier X and after that I started playing seriously. So med nerf probably happened during that time since I was listening about it but ether way I am lazy to look into patch updates.

One thing I know for certain is that it was med meta before heavy hp buffs. There are probably still youtube videos so saying just go with fast tanks. Rip T95 and all that stuff. Also I played a lot before hp buffs and it was a medium tank meta. E5 and FVs were played most then because they could fight against meds. Maus was rare to see unlike now.

[full token]

That’s ok then. We had the heavy meta for around a year. Time to switch back now if the meta really was medium meta before

[candid steeple]

My problem is that now mediums are 5 times harder to pen then before. If they are actually trying to bring back med meta for some reason. Then they should just cancel all the buffs in last 2-3 years. State in which meds right now are is unfair compared to old if med meta actually comes to be. I would rather play in old more balanced meta then this current state of the game where WG has no idea what they want to do.

[full token]

How much harder to pen? They don’t all have better turrets like you keep repeating. Heavies get better hull armor in general

[candid steeple]

Lets think about it now. Heavies got no armor buffs, they have been the same like before. heavies did not get dpm buff. They are same like before. They got 300 more hp and some special consumables. Now look at meds. They are buffign their every dpm to be 3000. The gave T-62A 8 degree of gun depression and allowed it to go hull down. That's a meda buff. STB-1 got turret armor buff so now it's really troll to pen for most heavies. E 50 M got instead 180mm turret armor now 250mm. M60 and patton got buffed turret armor to not be cheez if you don't hit mantlet and now they are getting 3000 dpm. WZ-121 got alpha damage and dpm buff. They are releasing meds in overstated state and have to nerf them because they do it too much each time. New lights are overstated and are still OP. BC got dpm buff. There are probably other stuff but I am to lazy to look into it. Now compare all that to 200-300 hp buff that heavies got. Would you rather 200-300 hp buffs to your mediums or all those buffs that they got till now since heavies hp got buffed. If we go back to med meta gain we will be seeing a lot stronger mediums then older medium tank meta.

That's why I said. If they want medium meta back they should just cancel all buffs in last 2-3 years and go back to more balanced and enjoyable game to play. Also revive the mentality of community that not only armor is what matters.

Honestly it's no longer of I am making the armor work. Now it's I go in front of enemies and complain that I got penned. Tiger II players at the moment.

[quick lichen]

Language…

[quasi axle]

Bc is not op, The t62a has 7 deg depression and has a turret that can easily be penned with gold, stb-1 has 3 240mm- weakspots on the turret, m48 and M60 turret armor is not good

[frail silo]

I believe the stuff said about RU server is just a stupid myth. They don't actually play like baboons.

[candid steeple]

You don't sound like you know what those tanks used to be before buffs.

[quasi axle]

That doesn't...matter? How a tank used to perform doesn't say anything about what it's like currently, and it's still not hard to pen a med, literally just load gold and for most meds that's enough

[quick lichen]

There’s a big difference from how you perform in a tank vs how it performs on average

[jagged crescent]

It's clearly a skill issue bruh on jah 😤

[rustic owl]

Hi i'm kinda new to the game what are the best lines?

[brisk ridge]

e100

[quick lichen]

Is4

[jagged crescent]

kran, e100

[safe rapids]

There is no “best” line, each one has their own strengths and weaknesses. However easy to play lines include the T110E5, M48 Patton, E100, Maus, E 50 M, IS-4, IS-7, T-62A, and the Kranvagn. All of these don’t take too much skill and they’re all pretty fun as well.

[rancid trellis]

Is there somewhere you can check to see how much xp and dmg you gotta get per battle for a mastery?

[candid steeple]

My recommendations are E5, IS-4, Obj. 268, WZ-121 (expect WZ-120 upgrading) and kran line.

Well that works too he he

[remote oriole]

I wouldn’t recommend any of those lines

Just take the tank you want the most

[rancid trellis]

Sorry guys I didn’t mean to post that here

[twin egret]

lmao

[unique scaffold]

It hasn’t been a medium meta since the 3.# updates.

Mediums have been directly / indirectly nerfed over multiple updates since the early 3.0 updates. First they lost turret armor. Then they lost penetration. Then they had their equipment replaced with equipment that was far more beneficial to heavies. Then heavies had their HP buffed.

The idea that there has been a medium meta in years is absolutely laughable to me.

[remote oriole]

The turret armour thing is strictly only true for Soviet mediums and even then the T-62A had it reverted

Yeah, the rest I agree with though one can talk about the equipment

[unique scaffold]

For the record the 3.8 update still irks me far more than anything Wargaming has ever done.

[unique scaffold]

Fair point

My other points still stand.

Man I could go on and on about the equipment changes…

[rustic owl]

ok thank you

[candid steeple]

My biggest recommendation is to not go with just one line.

[plush perch]

m48 patton line is garbage and do require skill

[safe rapids]

I disagree, all the tanks are fun and enjoyable, although the M46 is definitely the weakest link. Their versatility is their strong point and I chose them as one of my first lines to grind (and enjoyed them very much as a new player). American tanks in general are highly underrated and misunderstood by high skill players because they’re not designed for unicums, they’re designed for an average player.

[winged barn]

._.

The m46 is the strongest link

[plush perch]

@safe rapids These tanks have mediocre mobility and little turret armor, guns arent the best either. FYI even as an average i didn't like patton line

[safe rapids]

@winged barn It has DPM and gun depression, ok mobility, but it’s a lot more cautious and supportive in its playstyle than the previous vehicles. You might say “well, the T20 has no armor too” but it is also speedy and tier for tier has a better gun. Type 61 is literally a better M46 as it does the same thing but better. Personally the M46 needs a small penetration buff and maybe a turret buff so it’s troll to around ~215-220 mm penetration guns but anything more will still butter through it. @plush perch They sacrifice specialization for versatility and they can use that to their advantage. The turrets are not impenetrable but reliable enough, the guns aren’t great but their reliable, and their mobility is sufficient. One word to describe American meds in a nutshell is “reliable”, because they’re just that. Nowhere near perfect, but they get the job done. I wouldn’t play one in competitive gameplay but they do just fine for randoms and as a whole are HIGHLY underrated.

[stray verge]

M46 is fine where it is

Type 61 has awful armor and mediocre mobility for that excellent gun, the M46 has good P/W and the armor can troll shots

You just gotta use brain

[safe rapids]

218 pen though….that’s the worst part. Also aim time kinda sucks as well, but maybe a small gentle pen buff would be just fine for the M46. Aim time could also be adjusted so it’s a bit more comfortable, idk. Or keep the bad gun and up the turret armor like WG did for the PC version so it fits more naturally after the Pershing, which by the way is an excellent vehicle. It’s not my beloved Pantera but it’s definitely in the top 3 favorite tier 8 mediums.

[drowsy plaza]

The M46 kind of got hosed with the 61 buff, but it’s still a great tank, it just struggles more in tier X due to the pen. It’s a ferocious monster in a 8/9 game though or a X game without a lot of super heavies.

[safe rapids]

Pen shouldn’t be Type 61 levels or anything but buffing it by 5-10 mm wouldn’t hurt, just to make it a bit more comfortable

[drowsy plaza]

I would forgo the pen for better dispersion.

[safe rapids]

Or that, it also sucks as well.

Just...something xD

[nocturne mauve]

Why is the M 5 yoh reload that long?

[minor minnow]

Nobody knows /shrug

At least on the 3 shot, it shouldn’t have a 25 something second reload

[safe rapids]

Yeah, reduce it by a few seconds to make it a viable option,

[nimble zodiac]

It is a viable option =(

It already bullies in random battles, because of its role. Let it be the powerhouse support, again, 900 alpha in 1.7 seconds is no joke

[urban owl]

Ah so you wanted the mediums to just pen the heavy tanks like butter and have TD pen? Ok sure. If you don't run Calibrated shells on your MTs then that's your problem. I use cali on all of my medium tanks and don't have to deal much problem against the HT armors.

Lost turret armor? That's not quite the case for the STB, and everything else besides the 140.

There hasn't been a medium meta in years, yeah that's true, but you think giving MT turrets as strong as HTs and penetration as strong as HTs is a good idea? Even some of the mobility nerfs/gun nerfs on some HTs wasn't necessary. You just sound like you have skill issue in dealing with HTs in your MTs even if you don't even play tier 10 that much.

[jagged crescent]

140 is still a good tank

[unique scaffold]

And that ladies and gentlemen is how you construct a straw man argument.

[nimble zodiac]

I love when people state facts instead of an argument then boom, conflict.

[urban owl]

Okay and? I'm just laughing at your idea of meta MTs when MTs are already strong as it is.

You problem if you can't deal with HTs in your MTs like others can.

[stiff edge]

when comp is heavy spam

[unique scaffold]

Short of this I’m not even going to reply since it’s obvious you are going to misconstrue what I write and then jump to conclusions.

Go play your game with someone else.

[rancid trellis]

Most mediums aren’t meta other than a couple tho? I’m not a super star player don’t come at me with “git gud” but I’d say I’m above average and going against most heavies in meds ive found you have to play more like a TD to do anything with them because your turret isn’t strong enough to get close to side hug so unless you still have front line heavies up to distract while you throw some dpm at em it can be basically game over not to mention the fact you have to load gold unless you wanna run around the map to try and flank

[leaden bluff]

can balance Indien Panzer? its out dated

[stray verge]

Thats like all 84-90mm mediums in tier 8 excluding the 59 patton and 5/1

[safe rapids]

IndienPz is a fine tank statistically, but it’s problem is that no one plays it.

[nimble zodiac]

How often a tank is played does not influence how good it is, though how good it is does often influence how much it is played

@stray verge instead of selling Kpf 50t, make it the tier 10 of Indien's line and separate the lines? 😳
Gotta make a tier 9 for it though...
Kpf 07 RH? 👀

[stray verge]

The indien route to the leo 1 is absolutely pointless, both the 30.02 and indien are mediocre, does not teach the leo playstyle at all, and are outdated tanks with no role in blitz rn even if wargaming was to try to balance them without having to make them op/have arbitrary gimmicks

[karmic portal]

I feel if the Indien had an impenetrable mantlet it would be quite solid

[fallow eagle]

Heavies nerfs are good for the game
@nimble zodiac the amount of times he said guys,if he put that much effort into the game he wouldn't be complaining 😂

[nimble zodiac]

Just let this guy get hammered by mods 😂

[thorny mirage]

Ohhh i just saw tears

[uneven narwhal]

Skill issue

[dreamy oar]

Ohh how I these kinda of people

[twin egret]

Are you british?

[warped pasture]

Ur rant is less understandable than wargaming's entire decision making process, and you better believe that's saying something.

Kran turret traverse nerf is dumb as hell tho I will say that

[nimble zodiac]

Nerf Kran's gun mantlet, or increase hitbox size for Kran's cupolas? We gotta do something

[thorny mirage]

I dont think so... I think the most controversial nerf is the 215b.... If it has similar dpm to S Conq. Its gonna make it a truly pain with only accuracy and special consumables advantages

[candid steeple]

Jeez he is saying half truth but how he said it I am dying of laughter xD

[dreamy oar]

I think there’s a bit moar than just “skill issues”

[dark pike]

fv215b nerf was completely unnecessary

[candid steeple]

Kran, E5 and FV nerfs are really bad. All 3 tanks need special consumables removed and krans mobility buffed. And not nerf them because WG wants special consumables in the game. Also Kran and E5 got hp provisions. So WG is again balancing of Kran of it having more hp in the stock for which you have to pay. Like I hate their balance decisions so much. This is legit them doing a scam on people. We nerf the tank but if you want to have same hp still pay more credits. WG can go to hell with their choices.

This game is just becoming more and more pay to win. Heavies are getting nerfed but more and more broken consumables have been added into the game so if you don't run those consumables you are much weaker then people using it. WG is really but really terrible I really hope that they change this. Like when you think about what they are doing right now and ignoring everyone while destroying the game more and more after each patch for last 3 years. Can you even have faith in them anymore as what else they will destroy because of some of their stupid ideology.

[thorny mirage]

Agreed but sadly i think isn't gonna change their mind

OR... We can just fuse 215b and SConq :v

[empty nexus]

I like it, But Super conq is still better - should replace the FV215B tbh

[unique scaffold]

After this update there will be definitelly more tvps, e50m, fv4202 and stb1s on battlefields

[gleaming apex]

Nistron#4477 was banned

[candid steeple]

I am already seeing a lot of TVP and STB-1. Tho nothing can compare with T-62A spam. Good gun depression buff by WG. Defenetly didn't make T-62A too strong. Also better buff that gun mantles so nothing can pen it while every TD at tier IX and X can pen WZ-121 non existent gun mantlet. WG is biased quite a lot for overbuffing T-62A so much. Actually every med has been overbuffed so farr that they touched after heavy hp buffs. Ah right. Better nerf heavies. All meds now got red turret and you need gold. Almost all meds before didn't have good turret armor. Almost all meds had worse dpm. I really don't understand people who think that meds are not too strong. I main tds and heavies the most but I find when playing meds it being easier to win. People who think that mediums still need buffs have some skill issues. I mean I will continue repeating. Heavies got only 200-300 more hp. But meds got buffed to be easier to play a lot more. How in hell people who played before heavy hp buffs still think that meds are not so much stronger then meds before hp buffs.

[distant river]

For reference for those of us who refuse to use actual performance stats and just what they "see" in battle (inherently hugely biased), these are the most popular tier 10 tanks rn.

9 heavies, 5 TDs, 4 meds and 2 lights.

Also for reference personally not being able to use heavies well does not make them bad and does not change the fact that they are by far the dominant class.

Also for reference to anyone listening and not repeating the same message over and over when it's repeatedly show to be untrue, mediums still need buffs to compete rn, or heavies need nerfs. Heavies are slowly starting to get nerfed and meds are starting to be buffed which is a good step in the right direction.

[leaden flare]

maybe the one having the skill issue is you because i see almost nobody complaining about meds in thier current state

[candid steeple]

Um heavies only got that 200-300 hp buff. Also most top played tanks are big guns and big guns are fun. I mean by your logic TD's should be nerfed but WG refused that to do for years and what do we do about that?

Btw that broken E5 is played less then T-62A and Progetto . FV215B is not even on the list but they are still nerfing it. I mean your logic is falling hsort here as well.

Also just me complaining about meds. Well it seems that only I should be still here to complain about meds or this chat room would be just OH NO MEDS ARE TOO WEAK WHAT AM I GONNA DO WITH ALL THIS BUFFS THAT MEDS GOT AND MADE THEN EASIER TO PLAY BY A LOT THEN BEFORE. I mean this is the logic of must people in this chat room. Also everyone are polluted with logic that if you don't have all red armor your tank is bad. Also saying that medium tank weak spots are easy to hit with 0.350+ dispersion guns of most heavies. I don't find any logic in most statements about meds. You know gold is alright to have less then 70% chance to hit a weak spot specially while meds are moving constantly but spamming VK 72 turret with ease or any part of the tank is alright for everyone here. I am not supporting logic of most people here and I will keep being a black sheep like for years now.

[unique scaffold]

"Heavies only got that 200-300 hp buff"... No. Heavies have received multiple direct and indirect buffs over a number of years. The first indirect buff was the direct nerf to multiple mediums (some of those nerfs have now been reversed). Then they were indirectly buffed by the global medium pen nerf. Then they were indirectly buffed by the decision to make prammo do less damage. Then they were indirectly buffed by the 3.8 equipment change. Those equipment changes were a huge win for heavy players. They now could pack better armor, view range, improve their gun handling, their traverse and their reload. Then heavies were directly buffed by increasing their overall health.

Meanwhile there have been a few medium buffs at tier X most of which were aimed at the T-62 which despite it's abilities on paper was not performing well.

Heavies are the meta and they have been for some time. It is time for them to be dialed back a bit.

[quick lichen]

You realize the effective heavy tank hp buff is actually 300-600 right? Also the e5 isn’t broken because of its hp, it’s broken because of the super speed and reactive armor. If wg would remove the “mad game consumables” and sandbags, tier 10 would be a better place. Those things are a problem when only certain tanks have access to them which inherently makes them unfair

[unique scaffold]

Obviously for you it is a skill issue and you just need to git gud.

[quick lichen]

Obviously. I’d like to go back to what I said yesterday.

I would prefer something like this
Is4 2400 again
Maus 2600-2700
Kran 2200
E5 2100
215b 2300
T57 2200
50b 2200

There is no reason an is4 has 800 hp over a medium

The maus got 1200…

[gleaming apex]

HeroWonds#1261 was muted

[stuck acorn]

no one plays it because RU line is 100 times better. Same goes for ferdinand, JP 2 is better in every way. Exact same thing can be said about american medium line to T57. Those tanks aren't forgotten because they are bad, but they are forgotten because there is another addictional and most importantly - better way to get T10 tanks they are leading to

for me you shouldn't be able to research T54E1 from T49, Ferdinand could use some armor buffs and there is basically no thing you can do about indien Pz. at least now. Until we will get german high tier LTs there is nothing that can be done about it.

as i said @wicked quest this tanks isn't forgotten because it's useless, but it's forgotten because you can get Leo 1 by playing ru which is obviously better and funnier

[wicked quest]

Nah Indien panzer is just bad not that it’s not functional which it is but there’s really no reason to drive it as there is many tanks that are better than it and there’s pretty much no fun or challenge factor from driving it

[sour radish]

That’s the complete truth!

Imho Heavys should have low speed and traverse, high alpha and strong frontal armor. A Med or light should never be able to pen the front of a heavy, cause they should forced to use their mobility.

As for now, Heavys go straight with the Meds and fight them easily, especially the mobile ones.

[real bison]

yeah because heavies like the AMX50B should be impenetrable frontally hmm yes

Also, what about HT vs HT combat? Should HTs be able to pen each other frontally too? What does this mean? Does it mean that HTs get more armour and pen? Does it mean MTs and LTs get severely reduced pen? What about TDs?

[sour radish]

I think heavy tanks shouldn’t be so mobile like an AMX 50b or E5 is. Buff Armor, reduce speed and traverse increase Alpha.

Most Heavy Tanks has 400 Alpha and the Meds has 350 (most of them). There should be a greater gap.

Meds/Lights have Mobility enough, they shouldn’t be able to own Heavys Frontal Armor.

All of this and the small Maps is the Reason we see 90% Lemming Trains.

So bring up Heavys to fight their own and Meds also. Heavys <~> Meds should fight late game.

[primal mountain]

I don’t think all and especially WG devs think the same…

[real bison]

the entire point of lines like the AMX 50B and IS-7 is to be fast assault heavy tanks, occupying important positions to where they can hopefully stop pushes/ support mediums, brawling other HTs is a secondary thing.

The reason behind lemming trains is simple: safety in numbers. What good is it that half the team goes to the other flank when all the enemy team COULD be going to one side? Going all to one side alleviates the risk of losing half your team to the entirety of the whole enemy team.

[quick lichen]

The 50b sacrifices turret armor for speed. Yeah great it has 10* of depression but the turret is penned by stock tier 9s

The issue lies when heavy tanks don’t have a bad drawback. The IS-4 is a great example of this. Pretty average stats with the gun and mobility, but crazy strong armor for the speed it has and then 374 mm heat pen is a bit too strong

[rare sleet]

not to mention the is4 is generally very small for a heavy and size is actually pretty important sometimes

[quick lichen]

Absolutely

[dreamy oar]

Ok nerf idea for the heavies. So u know how in the lower tiers are for light and medium tanks the protected modules and the tracks in the equipment slots they also reduce damage but only for the light and medium tanks.
So for just for the heavies we decrease how much the calibrated shells increase the pen (especially the HEAT pen) for heavies only. Decrease the 10% heat pen to 5-2% increase and maybe change the AP 5% pen to 3.5-3%.
This just ONLY for HEAVIES. Meds will still keep their 10% increase to heat pen and 5% pen to AP shells

[quick lichen]

That wouldn’t do anything

Heavies don’t need calibrated to pen heavies…

[zinc silo]

that would completely ruin tanks like the is 7 that don't have any pen in the first place and are one of the most irrelevant heavies atm

[thorny mirage]

U won't struggle to pen heavies if u know how to aim ✌️

[empty nexus]

Pretty much. No tank is Weakspot-less. If its all red just use some gold. Or HE it. Or approach it from a different angle etc.

[nocturne mauve]

How about tiger 2 then

[thorny mirage]

Read this again 👆

[safe rapids]

Weak turret and very thin sides, plus a cupola.

[nocturne mauve]

Ah the cupola that’s the size of 2 pixels and what if he only exposes his front

[thorny mirage]

There is an awesome technology that helps u... This technology called Gold Rounds

[safe rapids]

Cupola isn’t that hard to hit, it’s about a 70-80% of the time pen in general.

[plush perch]

i did not expect doom barn to rank that high

[quasi axle]

Not every tank can be penned easily with gold
See is4 turret kran turret t22 turret etc etc

[thick rover]

That's beautiful yes plz xd

[outer glen]

Is4 and t22 doesnt have much gun depression tho

[quasi axle]

that doesn't make the turrets weak

[jagged crescent]

An angling Maus is gonna be annoying to deal with if Cali shells are removed

[plush perch]

somehow my 4005 shot ripped through maus's tracks

[terse tinsel]

its relatively easy to track if u shoot with a td right under the spaced armor

[nimble zodiac]

If it's not at an auto-ricochet angle, you're penning in FV4005

[stray verge]

not really weak sides, tiger 2 can still sidescrape well

[unique scaffold]

Why is the game still creating trash unbalanced battles

[unique scaffold]

Why can’t you read the pinned messages?

[unique scaffold]

F

[nimble zodiac]

Honestly, mods should start just muting them on the spot
Too nice with these warnings here :p

[rigid moon]

Tbh I’m mostly in agreement with the nerfs, but I kinda wish the 215b was left as is or got less than 1 second added to its reload. It’s kinda got its own play style and without the dpm, it already has a low # of hp for a heavy tank and doesn’t rlly have the armor. Idk I just kinda think the 215b nerf is kinda not needed, but if it is I kinda feel like losing a fair amount of its dpm might kinda suck as that’s the thing I felt was going for it

[placid carbon]

My main question is, why are you nerfing one of the worst heavy tanks in the game? (the maus) if you are gonna nerf its accuracy, buff its pen or its reload, it already gets outclassed by most tanks, when running rammer its reload is ok at best for how easy the tank can get penned when all these other heavy tanks can just load gold and pen it like there is no armor, when running calibrated the tanks reload is way to slow and its pen barely goes up the tank doesnt need an HP deduction it needs a gun buff or a slight armor buff or nerf the other heavies gold round being the e5,t57,50B,kran. i think it is kinda unfair that the players who play the german heavy tanks have to suffer with not having special consumables and all this other stuff, like why do the german heavy tanks have little to no pen? buff the pen on the tanks in the german heavy tech tree. That is all i have to say for now

[wicked quest]

This is a joke right please tell me oh how so easily it is to kill a maus by yourself with no support and outnumbered please tell me how well you stood your ground against a double maus platoon push and 5 others. If you can’t drive the maus then maybe you have a really bad skill issue

[placid carbon]

i felt this way when i first played the maus i dont anymore but i still think the gun needs a buff ive had a bunch of people who play the maus feel that way too so it wasnt just me who felt that way

[nimble zodiac]

Maus isn't about the gun, that's the point

[winged barn]

Yea, the mobility is also kinda lacking on the maus. I sure everyone agrees that the maus needs a speed buff.

[radiant zodiac]

Lol…..

[rare sleet]

Taking shots for your team is your first priority, damage as second objective

[placid carbon]

i do alot and typically i block more dmg than i take but doesnt help when my team is ass and cant help me so the gun is kinda important to me

[nimble zodiac]

If the gun is important, use another tank that has a better gun

[teal palm]

I’m not sure if you are joking or not
But I asked a friend who uses the maus a lot and he thinks it’s fine as it is

[frail silo]

Play E100

[twin egret]

My head hurts...

[finite atlas]

Some say the heavy nerfs are to encourage more frontline game play. Seems to me it’s going to encourage more heavies sitting in sniping positions then there already is. WG changing the meta yet again. In the beginning it was heavies, then switched to mediums, then back to heavies, now back to mediums.

[distant river]

Maus buff tiiiimmmmeeee

Man this playerbase is fun to deal with :/

[full token]

They’re nerfing the accuracy on the Maus, which will encourage more frontline gameplay for it. The others lose mobility and/or dpm, but I don’t see how that will lead to any camping really

[outer glen]

Maus nerf is fine the 215b nerf is not fine bruh

[hollow oasis]

Juts be better in maus 🤣

[iron willow]

seems like a skill issue for u 😂

[stuck acorn]

That won't solve anything at least in my opinion, because if somebody is stupid enough to camp in maus, he won't stop doing that just because some parameter that he doesn't even know what it is was changed. But it will make it even harder to hit weakspots of the tanks even at close range.

Maus needs a nerf, but not accuaracy one. It's accuaracy is already quite bad

Yes, it's not dmg dealer, but it has trash pen and even with this accuaracy hitting weakspots is pain in ass. If it will be even worse you will be unable to fight with many heavy tanks, just because you want be able to deal them any damage. Nerfing accuaracy on a tank which has bad penetration already isn't the greatest idea. @full token

[full token]

if youre playing it right it wont be that noticeable. Its less of a damage dealer and it was already very strong at taking hits

[full token]

what else could be nerfed on it if not accuracy (on a frontline tank) or hp?

[remote oriole]

Shell velocity

[full token]

wouldnt that just be the same though? And some people would just lead their shots a bit more to avoid it, whereas dispersion can affect everyone

[remote oriole]

No, because it has practically no effect on short range and leading your shots only helps you when you have enough space to lead and if the enemy is driving predictably. You will also have more trouble shooting peekers over medium and long range

[gleaming apex]

cioki#8459 was muted

[exotic goblet]

its obviously a joke...

[golden turret]

Could y’all stop crapping your cornflakes and realize that the Maus is meant to be a damage sponge and shield for your team? The gun it has is to defend itself from flankers but other wise it’s a big shield so if your ally Maus is holding a flank, your team should push

[solid scaffold]

Why nerf the improved engine boost, they can remove it from specific tanks and let it untouched, this is like a nerf to the fv4005 line especially the fv4005 with only 40 top speed
The whole clip reload buff doesnt help at all, i think it would be better to get 0,3s less interclip than 1 sec to a whole clip
Fv4005 has bad accuracy without the consumable and the engine boost getting nerf makes it harder to relocate for me

[nimble zodiac]

They're on track to realizing improved consumables is a mistake :p

[tall ermine]

When will they realise that adding OP tanks just earn money is a mistake

[winged barn]

checks when they were introduced

[nimble zodiac]

Time is irrelevant to my point :p

[deft grove]

Soo they made it unplayable in certain maps. gun handling comparable to E50m(worst gun handling for all medium tanks), You can't risk rushing shots or even shooting on the move so you have to stop and aim for (2-3s). still can't face hug because of the flat plate below the cheeks and gun which is 250mm (any heavy running calibrated shell can pen is with standard ammo, armor unreliable forcing you to wiggle making you lose 3-5s waiting for the enemy to shoot. other assault tank (Foch, Amx 50b, T57 and Fv4005) makes this tank's dpm look like a joke. you can't brawl with heavies you get out traded, targeted, and quite possibly bounce every shot because of the mediocre prammo pen. even certain tanks( IS 4, T57, Amx 50, Kranvagn, E 100/Vk 72.01k and T110E5) can pen cheeks (330mm for tall tanks and 350mm equal size tanks) with prammo with calibrated.
Thoughts: most heavies that primarily use calibrated can still pen the cheeks or maybe even the mantlet with prammo I don't think the Armor buff isn't going to be noticeable against heavies, But for mt/lt it's insane.
My changes: they could've just buffed the base front armor of the tank to 260mm (cheeks 365mm max) and mantlet to 280mm (310mm max) fixing the flat plate to most standard ammos and maybe nerf dispersion to 0.344, aim time to 4.3, Traverse from 31.29 deg/s to 30.29 deg/s, gun handling from 0.170 to 0.200 on move and 0.170 to 0.150 when rotating. I want this tank to excel In 1v1 brawl as if the enemy can't do anything but falls behind team skirmishes. giving it mediocre hp pool meaning if it pushes the Mt side or tries to flank It can be taken out quickly before enemy team responds.

[quasi axle]

Wait what tank are you talking about

[remote oriole]

I have literally no idea what tank you talk about

Maybe the 263?

[sudden path]

E50m has the lowest dispersion in the entire game idk what worst gun handling is but it's probably prog or 30b P
121 has 1 second aim time
Imo prog/30b has worse gun handling than 121

[rare sleet]

wz121

[uneven narwhal]

Did you just really say the E 50 M has bad gun handling lmao?

[dark pike]

e 50m and leopard have terrible accuracy ig

[flat nova]

Buff is-8's front armor!!!

[nimble zodiac]

It’s supposed to play like a medium

[uneven narwhal]

I hope that was sarcastic-

[dark pike]

you may never know

[reef zephyr]

buff Smasher

[nimble zodiac]

Thank goodness, because the “buff Smasher” message was a command 😅

[nocturne mauve]

Anyone else hate the m 5 yoh’s gun

[gleaming apex]

ֆӄʀɨʟʟɛӼ#1209 has been warned.

Stēvē#4421 has been warned.

[tall ermine]

Then why say E5 and Fv215b are too close to mt thats why they are nerfing it when they don't have any problem with is8 being able to play as mt rather than mt

I agree with nerfing E5 but Fv215b does not require a nerf.

[nimble zodiac]

You see, the issue here is that WG believes that they're getting too much of both worlds, heavy armor + gun, medium mobility

IS-8 doesn't have the armor, so it's excused

[distant river]

IS8 has worse mobility but a better gun than meds, so did 215b but then it also had consumables giving it equal/very similar mobility to meds. E5 had too much armour and firepower for its mobility and something needed to go

[leaden flare]

it may have had similar mobility but it also was much bigger + rear turret balancing that out quite a bit imo

[twin egret]

WG thinks FV215b has heavy armour 🤡
It's upper frontal glacis plate is weaker than the E 50 M I believe, Then the turret has like M48 cheek weakspots when you switch to HEAT.
Cupola isn't even HEAT proof it seems, despite the top beong 152mm angled. HEAT slices through.

[quasi axle]

the turret isnt bad tbh

[frozen patrol]

I think the really one thing that makes sta-1 a pain is it's top speed limit of 45 kph

[nimble zodiac]

To be fair though E 50 M is the heaviest medium

[terse tinsel]

turret is pretty bad on 215b

[twin egret]

Man just wait till you hear about the E 50 with the L/100 equipped
A tier 9 is somehow heavier, thab its tier 10 counterpart.
Logic 100
Thank you WG

[jagged crescent]

Nah the 215b turret’s good. If you shift back and forth, you can troll most shots on the cupola

[prisma jetty]

Correct.

[terse tinsel]

ppl dont shoot at the cupola, the turret is easy enough to go through

[jagged crescent]

The turret is only easy to go through if you’re losing gold. But that only involves small areas that almost every hulldown tank has to deal with.

[drowsy plaza]

215B turret is only weak to 330+ ammo, it’s effectively a rock for meds unless it’s on flat ground not using any depression/ and then generally the UFP or LFP are much easier pens.

Using depression it’s a rough pen (only small areas) for 374 pen HEAT

[burnt venture]

The 215B and Maus nerfs are mostly directed at RU server because players tend to play so much more aggro in pubs that tanks like these were very broken because of the aggressive meta. This has little to nothing to do with NA since the FV215 is like the worst performing tier X HT

[twin egret]

RU server 🤪
I love that server

[leaden flare]

on EU they arent good either

[sharp saddle]

The turret is actually useable on the FV215b. Not impervious, but at least an improvement over the paper thin Conqueror.
Conqueror you have to worry about being deleted through the turret all the time. At least the FV215b is more reliable and resilient

[leaden flare]

The cupola is pennable tho and often shots just ricochet into it

[golden turret]

Is there even any real difference from the S conq than the normal conq besides better gun and hp

[thick rover]

The turret armour and upper front plate is a whole new game..?

[empty nexus]

FV215B doesn’t have armour either lol. Gold will pen nearly all of it. If you’re gonna nerf the gun, buff the armour to make it more like a heavy

[stray verge]

Super conq has way better armor, more hp, and slightly more DPM, all conq really has is better gun handling and cracked consumables

[golden turret]

Guess I’m getting S conq then

[safe rapids]

S conq should have been in the tech tree.

[empty nexus]

Exactly!!!!

[nimble zodiac]

Oh it does, but it's decently difficult to use

And of course the armor stops when you use prammo, that's the point

It's not as barebones as the IS-8, at least it has good turret armor that doesn't get overmatched by 122mm+ guns, though to be fair 215b does deal with 183 and Jageroo's overmatch

[drowsy plaza]

Still tough when hulldown using depression

[leaden flare]

The positions where you can freely use fvs Gd are very very limited

[stiff edge]

^

[stray verge]

Rear mounted turret actually gives you a higher effective gun depression than front mounted turret

[full token]

wdym? I dont understand how that can be

[prisma jetty]

That just… no. That’s not how it works. It limits your gun depression because the gun can’t hit the hull

[twin egret]

Big lower plate though, AMX would easily pen

[empty nexus]

Oh yeah I know it’s got armour but when prammo comes into play the whole hull is paper. @leaden flare exactly positions are limited. I’ll find a good spot but then oops Not quite enough depression, or The spot may expose The lower plate, Or I wouldn’t dare slightly over angle the sides let they be penetrated with ease

[distant river]

It's not a passive tank where you find a position and sit in it at all lol

[stray verge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/728998390997975091/862445738151247882/unknown.png

ik the illustration goes through the engine deck but you get the point, if you had 7 degrees of gd on the front with the same height, you have to use more gun depression to shoot something than if it was rear mounted

you only have the illusion that rear mounts has worse effective gd because the gun does not go through the engine deck

if you learned trig, the effective gd can be found using y distance = (hypotonuse)(sin(angle))

[fiery dagger]

That's... Just not how it works... You just simply have your hull more forwards if you have a rear mounted turret and vice verse

[uneven narwhal]

Yes but in WoTB, the gun does not go through the engine deck as you said
So it might be theoretically correct considering a hollow hull, it is not so in practical uses

[prisma jetty]

It can’t go through the engine deck so it has worse effective gun depression.

[drowsy plaza]

Flip it around. Use depression over the rear.

7 degrees over the rear and sides

[full token]

Even if the gun could go through the hull, you might just get blocked by the hill. Tanks that are lower would have better use of their gun depression

[stray verge]

thats not the point, if you give a front mounted tank 7 degrees and the same height as the 215b, the front mounted tank woulehave to use more gun depression than the rear mount to shoot the same target at the same distance, EVEN IF YOU INCLUDE THE ENGINE DECK, crazy right?

Learn some actual math before you make assumptions

[prisma jetty]

Learn how effective gun depression works. That means the gun depression a tank can use, not what it theoretically has.

[drowsy plaza]

Uhm your not explaining yourself well. Your not accounting for the hull distance. Your just using distance from Gun to target.

[stray verge]

lets take a deeper look at y distance = (hypotonuse)(sin(angle))

look, the y distance is going to stay the same, you can either increase the hypotonuse(the distance from the gun to the target), or the angle (your gun depression). Front mounted tanks dont have much distance from the gun to target so they have to use depression. That rear mounted tank has more distance so it doesn’t have to use as much gun depression

[tall ermine]

Explain with diagram

[prisma jetty]

Given the same gun depression and the same hull, a front mounted turret would have more effective gun depression because it doesn't have an entire tank to go through.

Learn some actual physics before you make assumptions

[full token]

Yep. The rear turreted tank in the diagram above would have parts of the hull poking out if he could even shoot through his tank, and at that point you might as well go over that hill so the lower plate isn’t at such a flat angle

[scarlet fjord]

Are they really nerfing the IS-7?

[stray verge]

revised model because you guys complained about the engine deck too much

[plush perch]

are you high?

[last shadow]

Only like 186cm
Why?

[drowsy plaza]

7 degrees is 7 degrees. The point from the gun to the ground will be the same regardless of where the gun is placed. The issue is in a rear mounted gun tank, quite often the terrain doesn’t allow the tank to use the GD over the front as it will get pitched up. Hence why often you need to use it in reverse- the Waffle being the master of rear deck depression.

It’s quite painful listening to this. Math is math. 7 degrees doesn’t miraculously become a different angle due to turret placement.

[prisma jetty]

“It’s 7 degrees, but if we put it on the back, we’ll have 9 degrees in total”

[golden turret]

Quick mafs

[plush perch]

Lmao

[little quarry]

Seems sus having better depression while moving the turret to rear 🤔

[distant river]

All you are saying with "turret at the rear gives more gun depression" is that you need your tank further forwards to shoot over the same ridge which really isn't an advantage

[drowsy plaza]

Bingo

[winged barn]

The center of canyon is basically unusable with the 215 because of that problem

And the just turn it around argument is pretty bad. If the enemy pokes slightly higher than you predicted they would, they have an easy shot on the paper rear of the hull

[twin egret]

🤔 i wouldn't mind if 215b got a gun depression buff, if it got like one extra degree over the sides then that'd be great

[drowsy plaza]

The 215b can reserve in some positions, but like @winged barn pointed out those are limited due to exposure of the open butt. Unless your intentionally baiting something to try that into your hidden guns. But that only works so often…. The majority of folks that would fall for that that would push over if you where facing front anyway

[twin egret]

Open, seseme

[night lark]

Did the Samurai get a nerf? Stb1

[rain seal]

Tiger 2s reload needs decreasing by like 1 or 2 seconds because I always get flanked when I'm reloading and then by the time I've loaded the enemy has either killed me or got to cover

[twin egret]

Sounds like a skill problem

[rain seal]

Not really coz it's always the same thing plus I've been playing the game for 5 years now

[quasi axle]

Playing for 5 years doesn't show skill

[twin egret]

5 years mean nothing if you haven't improved 🤷
Tiger 2 is already a bit balanced; a bit overcooked, but balanced.
I already hate fighting german tanks. VK 36, WT, Tiger 2, VK 90, etc. Overcooked tanks.

[drowsy plaza]

Tiger 2 is probably the best tier 8 TT heavy at the moment, no buff needed at all.

[jagged crescent]

Emil

[drowsy plaza]

Okay second best.

[stiff edge]

lmao

[tepid latch]

e75 ts

[winged barn]

t32 with ridiculous armor getting ignored

[minor minnow]

The T32 doesn’t have the best gun I believe. At least in regards to pen and handling

[safe rapids]

Yeah, the gun handling and pen suck.
I'd run cali on it since its got the turret to take the hits and hold the line.

[outer glen]

Its balans the prems make it looks sucks tho if u get flanked and alone thats ur problem lol

[golden turret]

Then you clearly need to change your playstyle

[rare sleet]

Big brain balans idea.. Give fv215b more rear armor so it can do that reverse ridge gun depression thingy hmm

[full token]

give it 10 degrees over the rear

[twin egret]

Hm, -10?

[coarse harness]

Big brain balance idea
Don't nerf 215b

[silk hamlet]

yes

[coarse harness]

The general speed boost nerf is more than enough

[weary scaffold]

Can I get a refund on E5 attachment. I don’t want it now that it’s been ruined

[full token]

Lol you never knew a tech tree tank could get nerfed

[shut pulsar]

Big brain balans idea: don’t nerf 215B and give it better mobility

[golden turret]

Big brain balance idea: give fv215b hesh

[sharp saddle]

Giving it something it already has

[uneven narwhal]

Just remove super consumables and buff it ggez

[wicked sluice]

Just remove them from most tanks

[solid scaffold]

remove improved engine boost on all tanks with the exception of E3 and 4005

[full token]

E3 doesn’t need that either

[uneven narwhal]

IMO the only tanks that do need Improved Speed Boost is T28 and T95

[outer glen]

Just buff the 215b max speed dont nerf the gun add 8 degree gun depression ez

[kindred valve]

Buff Conqueror gun depression and turret armor (atleast strong enough to deflect standard ammo of LT and MT)

[terse tinsel]

conq doesnt need more gun depression but ill take some frontal hull and turret armor, also pls dont nerf my 215b.

[candid steeple]

After playing WZ-110 for some time. I gotta say. This tank needs some serious buffs. IS-3 hull is in my opinion better then WZ since it's easier side scrape and it's a it's easier to go hull down. So WZ-110 has trash mobility. It has okay dpm but really bad alpha for tier VIII heavy since it doesn't have armor. Literally doesn't have armor. You can't sidescrape because of that pike nose that has lower armor on sides. Turret has bit weak spots. Commanders hatch is easy to pen for meds and tds go right trough your turret. Tanks acceleration and turning speed are trash. Armor is unreliable and has way to bit weak spots.

I would like this tank to get stronger pike nose and equal armor on the entierity of it and also aiming time and dispersion buff. They are buffing tanks all around but why didn't they touch this thing. It's such a shame since tank looks nice with skins.

[winged barn]

Lmao

[valid moth]

hi

[candid steeple]

WZ-110 is definition of I got armor but actually I don't.

[frosty hill]

buff MTs n TDs but dont nerf HTs

[desert copper]

STA-1 very op tank need nerf too much armour

[prisma jetty]

Nah, keep it as is

[exotic goblet]

nah not enough, tigar 2 needs to be buffed to 1 second reload with 930 alpha, that would fix ur problem

[rain seal]

Lmao I wish

[exotic goblet]

it is already very hard to complete the full pass without the premium, if it is made harder then it will be more p2w

[weary crypt]

The Conquer should receive a 30% frontal turret buff to prevent tanks from penetrating it with standard due to it being the least played tier nine.

[full token]

least played tier 9 is the AE Phase 1, so that should be buffed instead

[drowsy plaza]

The Conqueror turret is the offset to the brilliant Gun. You can’t buff the turret without taking a significant gun hit or it would be OP Broken.

It’s fairly broken now. I just don’t win in it 😉

[leaden flare]

buff the T8 Ho Ri it has nothing going for it
its big
no armor
gun isnt great either
camo isnt good because its big
gun doesnt hit anything
okayish dpm at max

[plush perch]

it has armor

[empty nexus]

Conqueror is a fantastic Tank, and that’s mostly down to the gun lol. I find wiggling your turret can help get the troll bounce. Something that isn’t fantastic is stock tanks with 75% crew 😖 I started grinding the Foch line (suites my TD play style) but lord almighty some of these stock tanks are shocking

[weary crypt]

It is indeed "very broken"

[nimble zodiac]

Imagine trying to bully heavies in Conqueror

[distant river]

For context, this screenshot is not using max depression and is against a tank known for its outstanding pen at its tier

[weary crypt]

Here's something more realistic for you

[remote oriole]

And what is so surprising or outrageous about this picture?

[winged barn]

It's not 100% red. Needs to be immortal obviously.

[distant river]

One of the nice things about the conq is that although it's not invincible it's troll to basically every type of pen, this is against Ho Ri standard with CS and it looks very similar to against the panther standard.

[weary crypt]

it just needs a 20-30% turret buff so meds don't go through it like butter. I'll do the math. 182x0.25=45.5+187=232mm on flat ground. This will make the tank a little bit more bearable for new players while not making it op.

[remote oriole]

Give mediums a break

In fact, I’d say they should remove the mantlet just to make it clear to everyone that this tank is not about the turret armour

[exotic goblet]

same thing goes with the keni otsu at tier 3 lol

[weary crypt]

Give the lupus laser accuracy because it needs it.

[plush perch]

buff sp1c shell velocity...

[weary crypt]

Yah it's bad

[prisma jetty]

Maybe SP 1C isn’t supposed to snipe?

[safe rapids]

Yah, I love the SP1C. Giving it good shell velocity would break it, it already has 2.5 second interclip now.

[outer glen]

Sp1c already got a big buff bruh

[nimble zodiac]

<@&481447501690568709>

[gleaming apex]

Bhavesh#6692 was banned

[plush perch]

no but i just cant believe i missed my shots while auto aiming circling bulldog which was 50m away, i had super charge as well

[terse tinsel]

it does need a shell traverse buff, shooting he is like chucking rocks at the enemy. u dont expect it to hit until it does from long range

[ruby plover]

it's he is slower than nightmare standard heat rounds

[distant river]

What's wrong with being forced to not camp in a light lmao

[hardy trellis]

Some1 should balance stb hitboxes, (at the cupola btw)

[nimble zodiac]

It shouldn't have dealt damage to you if that's where it hit, unless it was HE/HESH

Also just because you say "balance" it doesn't make it balance, this is more of a bug if that's the case

[last shadow]

I'm actually surprised that that's a piece of the hitbox
Normally weegee would've called it a day and left it out

[hardy trellis]

shouldnt be a hitbox

[remote oriole]

It’s not hitbox, just like you can see the marks on spaced armour and the cannon you can see it on optic devices

[quasi axle]

Probably had a curse word in there

[halcyon berry]

some guy that replied to it without using cursewords got his message removed as well
hmmmmm

[quasi axle]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hollow tundra]

215b does not need any nerf, only reason it's doing so well is because the people who usually play it are really good at the game or learned its playstyle.

[weary crypt]

@hollow tundra yes remove spall liner. Seeing a WT and grills acting like meds is cursed.

[hardy trellis]

But you shouldnt be even able to hit theese pixels...

[hollow tundra]

Small liner makes HE completely useless like bruh I've seen and had moments where the HE rolls lower than standard ap like why? The point of HE is to do more massive damage but at the cost of very bad pen

[gleaming apex]

Yaha#9405 has been warned.

[sudden path]

Paper tds with spall liner still die incredibly fast with just standard rounds

[drowsy plaza]

@remote oriole it is.

I don’t recall it being that visible pre 8.1 but it’s definitely there now.

[halcyon berry]

i didnt say anything what the hell

[nimble zodiac]

Not this?

[golden turret]

i see you're an SMG4 man of culture as well

[twin egret]

That seems like a HE pen, not sure.
You can tell what type of shell penned/failed to penetrate by looking at the mark

[outer glen]

Add this tank very balans

[empty nexus]

You can tell the Caliber aswell. Larger hole = Bigger gun, which is a pretty neat feature

[remote oriole]

We weren’t talking about the cupola itself but about this periscope/ stick/ optic that’s sticking out of the cupola. Now, I might be wrong there, but I am 95% sure that it’s not part of the hitbox

[dark pike]

im wondering how that was hit if its not even part of the hitbox in the first place

[distant river]

The shell hit marks go onto parts of the 3D model even when they aren't damage hitboxes, and they are also pretty unreliable if you want an accurate place of where the shell hit

[drowsy plaza]

@remote oriole my bad. No it’s not part of the hit box. But honestly I don’t ever recall the STB cupola to be distinctly raised - the cheeks where always the issue or the fact a large cal gun can HE the roof dramatically, but I swear WG raised the cupola a smidge.

[lethal drift]

whyarent clan invites just in messages instead of the stupid popup that disappears after 3 seconds

[autumn zodiac]

good balance question

[lethal drift]

uh ok thanks, its an ask devs question mr sarky

[gleaming apex]

_____deathray_____#2456 has been warned.

[quasi axle]

just post that in #tourneys-discussion or something

[dim citrus]

i got a question. will foch 155 get a dmg buff?

[golden turret]

Foch will never get a buff unless wargaming decides to buff it for no reason. It’s already one of the best tier 10 TDs

[safe rapids]

I think he means on the stock gun, which I would like to see. Why make the stock gun outright worse, Tier X tanks rarely have that.

[quasi axle]

foch one of the best t10 tds...?

[full token]

So there’s a good chance since WG also decided to buff the T29 recently

[safe rapids]

Foch stock gun should get 640/550/960 alpha again, autoloader gun should just get 780 HE alpha instead of 680.

[coral fern]

People were saying t29 sucked and needed buff ._.

[golden turret]

Lol T29 is fine

[distant river]

It was fine

Before the hp buff...
Before the consumables...
Before the upper plate buff...

Back then it was a great tank. Now it's just a balance joke with how stupidly good it is

[safe rapids]

Agreed.
Nerf the upper plate
Take away the stupid consumables
And it'll be fine.

[prisma jetty]

No, leave my feel good capitalism bully wagon alone

[safe rapids]

I guess it is the only weapon us F2P players have against the Tier 7 imbalance in the Smasher and Annihilator.

[golden turret]

It is the only tank that annihilators and smashers fear. It’s just so intimidating on the battlefields

[leaden flare]

There is many tanks Anni has problems with tanks such as Jpanther and T25 at or quite a few heavys

[umbral thistle]

I was thinking amx 30b could get a slight dpm buff? Honestly I think the tank is fine the way it is but comparing it with the stb and the leo 1 its irrelevant. I guess the speed comes in handy but overall I think a small dpm buff would be good.

[radiant zodiac]

Imo it’s a very boring tank apart from it being able to hulldown. Same with the t32

[drowsy plaza]

Especially since the M48 and M60 are getting buffs in 8.2 as is the E50M and 4202.

[nimble zodiac]

Boring != Unbalanced
Both T29 and T32 are OP

[storm hatch]

So many meds with dpm though. I say just give it a lot more pen like the actual 30b irl

[dire narwhal]

I need clan people to join mine

[golden turret]

Give it 300 standard ap pen :troll:

[cerulean mason]

AMX 30 B is useless as is. Needs a massive DPM buff. Same with Centurion 7/1

[twin egret]

Play it right

[nimble zodiac]

useless is such an understated word 😂

[outer glen]

Centurion 7 already getting a buff lmao

[modest zodiac]

Will they buff the AT-7?

[little quarry]

They already buffed the DPM, no?

[fair berry]

totally concur. That tank works best when sitting back under camo and sniping shots, before using its speed to find the next spot

[uneven narwhal]

Eh Cent 7/1 didn't really need a buff IMO
It's already a fantastic tank when played correctly

[little quarry]

It will get mobility buff in 8.2, so should be even better tbh.

Too bad Cent 1 didn't get it as well. Sad times.

[twin egret]

Cent 1 should've went 45

[uneven narwhal]

I know that but what I am saying that it's a balanced tank, the buff was not needed
It's got BESH and 10deg of gun dep with a good turret against other meds
Perhaps a small buff to speed like 45 would've worked but 50 is too much

Also the Cent 1 needed the buff more, it's absolutely garbage rn

[little quarry]

So your saying that you are against next mobility buff?

Not so realistic tbh, but it always welcome.

[uneven narwhal]

Partly yes, I still think the 7/1 didn't need a buff
It simply has a high skill cap and its DPM with the HESH is 3,2k, on a T9 med with decent hulldown capabilities

And partly no because I enjoy my 7/1 and it's gonna be more fun lol
So from a selfish reason, I love this buff
For balance reasons no

[outer glen]

Just let the 7/1 get 50km and cent mk1 should get 45km

[primal mountain]

I agree. Cent 7/1 performs bit below average for tier IX meds at the moment. Small speed buff would be fine, but the 10km/h buff seems too much. https://blitzanalysiz.com/update/8.0/tanks/9/all/5713/

[uneven narwhal]

Indeed
Honestly though, I think the only reason that Cent 7/1 under performs is because people don't utlize the HESH correctly

[primal mountain]

It has high skill floor as you said. I keep learning what can be HESH'ed (Skoda T50's front) and what cannot be (its sides).

[outer glen]

Awhh cmon dont make weegee cancel the speed buff on 7/1 the tank being underrated bcuz of vick cr exist its faster smaller more dpm and still have that cheap HESH

[primal mountain]

Don't worry. WG will ignore this. 🙂

[golden turret]

COUGH credit coe COUGH

[quasi axle]

credit coefficient shouldn't factor into balacing a tank's stats

[distant river]

The 30b sure isn't useless, it's a Leo with armour instead of dpm. Both have very high skill ceilings and cannot be buffed in any large way unless you want to see every superuni absolutely massacring the reds every game they play with it

[quasi axle]

that sounds like fun please buff 🙏

[exotic goblet]

nah, i'd rather the T29 be ridiculously op than having just smashers and annis ruling the tier

[candid whale]

In order to balance tier 7 we must make every tank OP

[golden turret]

T29 is pretty much the only counter to them

[winged barn]

That's great until you have to counter a t29 with an average tier 7

[nocturne mauve]

Most tier 7 heavies are so overbuffed man

[drowsy plaza]

I don’t think there is even a bad tier 7 heavy at this point.

[golden turret]

Gravedigger annihilator and smasher are best T7 heavies

[quasi axle]

gravedigger not really

[burnt venture]

bruh why is ask WG already closed, I have to wake up at 6AM to even get a question in??? Nice meme

[nocturne mauve]

Tier 7 heavies are the only reason I can’t enjoy the 13 57

[outer glen]

heavy meta

[random bear]

I wanna get chimera. So i can spam it like hell. Even Noobs be playing this tank at 60% winrate

[umbral thistle]

I guess that could work too

[coral fern]

Well now that there are going to be a lot more people using smasher maybe it should be balanced for once 🤩

[exotic goblet]

that's impossible, ur expectations are too high for wg

[formal perch]

Hey if this channel Is really about balance discussion, then let PC users participate in every tournaments.
Then blitz can be balanced.
:/

[quick lichen]

It’s for tank balance… 🤦🏼‍♂️

[formal perch]

How ?

[nimble zodiac]

Changing stats of tanks so it’s balanced?

[gleaming apex]

DesTroYeR_X#9478 has been warned.

[graceful jacinth]

Don't nerf Maus its a balance tank

[prisma jetty]

If by balanced you mean over performing, then yes, that Maus is balanced

[toxic cove]

Maus is only over performing not because it offers you ability to annihilate everyone by its superior firepower, but because playerbase basically don’t know (and don’t want to learn) how to kill - waste a lot of time killing it - loses because ur allies kill them while they waste time

[nimble zodiac]

Ah yes, learn to chuck away at their massive HP pool faster

[prisma jetty]

So the Maus is a good tank because the player base doesn’t want to kill it? It could also be because a properly angled Maus is an absolute pain to penetrate, but that’s just an idea.

[toxic cove]

oh yes imagine trying to penetrate angled maus

[dark pike]

shoot faster 👍

[twin egret]

Just drive a Ho-Ri

[plush perch]

or fv4005, or jageroo, or any tank that can butter ufp with gold

[quick lichen]

Just because you struggle to pen it doesn’t mean everyone else does

[tall ermine]

Maus cannot even turn it's gun towards you without getting penned on its cheeks

[winged barn]

I'm thinking the people against the maus nerf are the ones that spawn camp with it. Otherwise there is no difference in how it will play.

Guys, the highest hp pool in the game is irrelevant smh
Don't mind the large difference in armor between the maus am e100

Also. Another thing. How many times have you won because of 150 more hp?
Note: this does not mean won with less than 150hp, but won because of it.

Extremely rarely. Anyone who says otherwise is a clown.

[wicked sluice]

The only purpose the Maus is being used is because of its HP,now that its gotten reduced there is no real purpose for it anymore since its armor is bad,gun is also very inaccurate and it doesnt have much more HP than a e100.

Your opinion is just wrong,since you obviously dont think the changes through or how it will Affect gameplay. Its like saying the 263 gets good because it gets speed and armor buff,yet the gun becomes totally useless and you can still be penetrated at your gunshield,be it not from meds anymore.

[sharp saddle]

Even if the Maus would be less relevant and not used as often, I’m for it.
Maus has been a top performer for so long, I don’t mind it changing up for once

[quasi pagoda]

ok

[exotic goblet]

150 hp a lot of times between being a one shot and two shot, which is a massive difference. And the dispersion nerf would make hitting weak spots and shooting at mid range much harder.

Lmao and i actually respected ur comment before you typed "Anyone who says otherwise is a clown" like wtf, only a 8 year old would say that

[prisma jetty]

“Armor is bad”. I mean, maybe you don’t know how to use it, but properly angled only tds with prammo can go through.

[quasi axle]

nah heavy heat can still manage to go through the cheeks with cali

[unique scaffold]

I got good idea. Remove M V YOH tree

[hearty steeple]

Lol wg is going all in on the 2 shot autoloader concept. The yohs is a great idea for them

[safe rapids]

Yohs actually came out balanced which I'm proud of WG for doing.

[uneven narwhal]

Ehh the M-VI-Yoh is definitely borderline OP IMO

[wicked sluice]

Thats exactly what im talking about,they didnt need to nerf the Maus. Or just buff the armor or leave the gun untouched. Taking away HP and accuracy is too much

[quasi axle]

It's been a top performer in tier 10 for a while I don't think nerfing it was a horrible idea though

[graceful jacinth]

Ok Nvm Just Ignore [Don't nerf Maus its a Balance Tank] comment :/

[safe rapids]

nice ace

[hearty steeple]

People just want to continue abusing pubs with it. They don't want their effectiveness reduced.

[wicked sluice]

Nerfing it Was the right idea,but not like this,the gun accuracy would have been nerf enough imo

[quasi axle]

it's not a huge hp nerf anyway it still will have the highest hp pool in t10

[scarlet fjord]

why is the IS-7 getting nerfed

[full token]

its probably just the homogenization stat removal

[safe rapids]

Yes, armor will be the same as before in battle.

[scarlet fjord]

if thats the case it would "nerf" the entire hull as well not just the turret

[quasi axle]

is7 isnt getting nerfed

[full token]

Maybe armor homogenization was applied on just the turret? We didn’t know what tanks had it, we also don’t know whether it applied to an entire tank or just turrets/hulls, or individual armor plates

[winged barn]

Found a clown

Maus is completely paper. Useless armor. Tier 2s pen it

[rare sleet]

maus armor not bad who said maus armor bad

[wicked sluice]

@rare sleet i did,because you can pen it with the Heat of heavies in some/most situations,wich makes it not the best in terms of armor,and since its already the heaviest tank and pretty bulky and easy to outplay it has pretty weak armor,still my opinion tho

[scarlet fjord]

i hope its what you guys are saying because it would blow my mind if they are actually nerfing it

[exotic goblet]

lmao kid, just cos u can't do well in it doesn't mean is has paper armour, what tank has armour then?

[winged barn]

Me: pro maus nerf because the tank is overpreforming.

You: anti maus nerf because a scratch of hp and accuracy somehow make it irrelevant.

Also me(apparently): I suck so maus need buff. Plz weegee. I can't play op tenck

[rare sleet]

When angling properly the maus can get atleast 340mm+ armor everywhere not mention most places 370-380mm+ and when you wiggle you can bait prammo shots. Im not sure what your definition of weak armor is. I've bounced the Heat from heavies multiple times plus I run enhanced armor which adds makes it even harder to pen. add 3000 hitpoints ontop of it and you have an absolute beast at holding a line. The amount of time it takes for the enemy to aim and use heat which reduces dpm to already try and kill 3000 hitpoints of steel is amazing. Due to maus flat armor it makes it easier to angle properly.

Oh also I've bounced plently of mediums from my rear armor alone

[quick lichen]

@austere elk bad games aren’t what this channel is about

[uneven narwhal]

Thing with the Maus is that even if people load the gold and pen it, they need time
It takes time to aim at the cheeks with gold, meanwhile the Maus can just pull out, get a shot in, and get back into position to bounce shots again
That time is why it's good
You get penned sure, but you take valuable time, sometimes even 3-4s, during which ur allies can put in shots

[twin egret]

Maus is not used as much in comp anyways. Ho-Ri exists now

[quasi axle]

Uh... Mice are used fairly often in comp and ho ris are rarely if ever used

[outer glen]

Just accept the nerf lmao maus have been on the top for a long time

[remote oriole]

Can I just say that autoloaders turned into a plague?

[formal perch]

Yah amx 13 57 is a huge pain

[outer glen]

Skill issue

[remote oriole]

I’m not talking about that tank, I am talking about high tier

And autoloaders in general, not just one single tank

[real bison]

lux you better watch out for me and my 4005 then : )

[exotic goblet]

lmao your comprehension skills are truly impressive. Did i ever say the nerf would make it irrelevant? Did i ever say i am against the maus nerf? And if you think maus armour is paper and useless, name a tank with better armour.

[unique scaffold]

Remember before heavy's Hp buff, and when maus got better front plate armor?

[remote oriole]

👀

Though I mind the 4005 the least. I especially have an issue with all the well armoured frontline autoloaders which just make peeking and trades an absolute nightmare at the frontline. Especially the amount of the hurts the game which usually results in short burst of massive fire-exchanges preceded by a long break with sporadic trades in between.

The game just loses all continuity and mobility because pushing into two reloaded autoloaders simply means fast death for the first to push, so nobody wants to take it for the team. And even worse, you always have a reloaded autoloader when there’s three of them in one team, which means that if you make one wrong move you most likely will lose half your hp for it. So in the end people just sit in cover the whole time presenting only their armour and lurk on any enemy to make a move.

It’s just stale and boring gameplay brought about by the horrible combination of autoloaders and armour. Autoloaders used to have poor armour which forced them to be either defensive or aggressive, but not frontliners. Now we have autoloaders who can simply hold a position at the frontline and still clip people without fearing to get instantly deleted, and the game suffers for it

[golden turret]

theres only 5 of them in the game and the 5th one is quite rare along with the somua

[formal perch]

Don't you guys think PC users are being deprived of their rights 😐
I mean , there is a restriction on major tournaments for PC players.
We can't join big tournaments like twister cups, prove your skills tournament and so on.
This system should be changed so that everyone can enjoy the game fully :)

[safe rapids]

Yes, PC tourneys should be added

[leaden flare]

Maus Armor is pretty paper a Maus can facehug pen another Maus upper plate even slightly angled

And Maus doesn't have high pen

[golden turret]

facehug a maus with Object 268 ez pen

[plush perch]

they should add different tours i think

[solemn elk]

Mobile players have the option of seeing ads and getting gold as well , If the game can be played in both PC and Mobile then everything should be accessible to both PC and touch players.

[formal perch]

@plush perchthat will also do.
Make 2 different tournaments for 2 different controls.

it's just unfair to hold major tournaments for only mobile users.

Why did they release game on PC then if they don't let us have the same opportunities?

[remote oriole]

PC players complaining about being an afterthought in a mobile game...

They released it on PC to allow low spec computers to also receive the questionable honour of enjoying a WoT title.

I am pretty sure that if you can afford a PC you can also afford a phone to watch the ads on. Also, the infrastructure for video advertising is already there on moble platforms while on PC you probably have to use some workarounds which is most likely just not worth WG's time

[solemn elk]

I feel only touch players have the advantage since they have the option of choosing, PC players are restricted. If the game has a provision to include PC players in the game then there should be some equality in it. PC players use money to get gold , while touch players have the option of using their free ads to get gold. If you think about it, monetary wise ,PC players are contributing more in terms of revenue since they have no other option to get gold -only by spending. My humble request is to to make it fair , if there is tournament only for touch , keep tournament only for PC , or keep it accessible for all types of players -these tournaments.

[formal perch]

Yah the questionable honour lies in playing honourable tournaments like pro tournaments and so on.

[remote oriole]

Well, obviously it does not. If you want to be a professional at this game then play it like it's meant to be. If you don't want to be a professional and just enjoy the game, then there are numerous tournaments, modes and other opportunities available to you

[formal perch]

But during the release on PC they didn't say those :/

And it's not just pro tournaments, I'm talking about every clan wars.
Twister cups etc.

They can make 2 tournaments.
1 for PC am other for mobile.

It's just not right togive all advantages to a certain group of people while they are earning from both platforms.

[unique scaffold]

Isn’t the pro tourny mobile only?

[remote oriole]

I don't know if I'm missing somethng here but as far as I know all tournaments except for the professional ones are open to everyone. Those are the Quick tournaments and the Season Coin tournaments.

And they don't give all the advantage to one part of the community, it's literally only one small aspect of the game while the rest fully integrated both control modes

[safe rapids]

I can play it on my phone, but for some people it’s just a matter of preference. I prefer PC controls so I play on PC.

[formal perch]

Bro , they don't let us join any clan tournaments like where u get cups for HoF.
Let alone pro tournaments.

@safe rapids3 bru I inbox u pls check.

[remote oriole]

If you truly want to become a professional then you should have enough dedication to adapt to the control mode. There are undeniable differences between the two control modes which might make a difference in pro tournaments which is why you can't really mix them. Doing two tournaments for the different modes also doesn't really work in WG's favour because they have twice the effort for no further benefits.

Clan tournaments are just an extension and build-up to pro tournaments.

I repeat, this is a mobile game, it is meant for mobile devices and the pro tournament scene is meant to reflect that. If you don't want to play the mobile game on a mobile device then you made the conscious choice to not join pro or clan tournaments. You can always start playing on a mobile device and lose no progress whatsoever. It is already a gift that you can play this game on PC, and I don't think that Blitz stands to benefit anything from focusing more on PC players which are meant to play WoT PC anyways

[exotic goblet]

what tank has armour then?

[nimble zodiac]

Yeah it's paper when you don't use it correctly 🤔

[leaden flare]

The person I've fought with has 70% and drives his t10s at 3,5k so I assume he's good enough to know how to play a Maus

Tanks like IS 4 and Kran that can go hulldown and already benefit from Thier Armor
Maus can basically angle only against people that are straight ahead of it because it has to turn it's turret for maximum effectivity which also means it can't shoot you as long as it angles

[exotic goblet]

but you shouldn't call it paper because it is still one of the heaviest armoured tank in the game, being able to pen it doesn't mean it has paper armour

[formal perch]

But we can already play a mobile game on PC 😑
So why should I leave the platform I feel comfortable.

[full token]

Get more comfortable then and accept not being allowed for major tournaments because you don’t play on touch

[gleaming apex]

DesTroYeR_X#9478 was muted

[unique scaffold]

This has nothing to do with vehicle balance.

[zenith jungle]

i think the vk72.01 needs a real armor buff cause its only strength is the front armor and the side armors are weak and even the front armor is easily pen able with gold shells and its unplayable tank you cant even side scrape with it i really prefer the tier 9 of its own line

[nimble zodiac]

Pushing back that pre-nerf all 160mm side armor

@unique scaffold y'know you can see a tank's stats before you buy it 😳

[vital basalt]

bad penetration
232mm which is 5th highest pen among tier 8 heavies and 244mm with CS which is 2nd best

[nimble zodiac]

I think it's a little unfair to compare its armor with a tank known for it's great armor profile that resists premium ammunition due to many extremely sloped plates.

Besides, it's a tank to pull just over standard rounds for many lights, mediums, and is kind of built to fail against premium ammunition.

You want an armored AMX 50 100? That's what Somua SM is for.

Aiming time is pretty standard for that caliber, and is actually kind of accurate. Dispersion on movement is the problem.

Oh, and the 10 degrees of gun depression allows Somua SM to engage targets around terrain much easier than AMX 50 100 can

[quick lichen]

Couldn’t imagine spending 25k gold on a meh tier 8😂

[stiff edge]

when 252u has better hull armour than the is7

[nimble zodiac]

False™

[languid bridge]

It’s a mobile game smh

[stiff edge]

wat

[neat trail]

They had skill and they used it and outplayed you? That's what it seems like for me

[nimble zodiac]

That's funny, because the capture circle exists for that reason

[quasi axle]

they're the last 2 tanks in the game they probably had plenty of other tanks you could've bullied earlier

[languid bridge]

You can legit pen the lower plates and cupola plus you win on caps anyway

[winged barn]

They gave you a free win. You should be thanking them

[neat trail]

youre really gonna complain about that.

1. You have caps
2. You outspot them
3. Aim
4. You had 5 tanks

I wish i had an enemy platoon as bad as theres so i can complain about a free win too

[hearty steeple]

^ that and a tier 7 known for one of the worst pens in the tier facing tier 8 superheavies frontally and you are complaining about difficulty pening them

[wicked quest]

I feel like saying skill is an issue there is extremely stupid when you got a free win out of it and the only way possible you could complain out of this is you were dumb enough to stand still infront of them or engage them looking at the VK staring straight at you confirms my assumption

Seems like you’d make a nice gaming journalist

[bold dagger]

literally was 2v6 and y’all had 3 cap points. sure, clearing them may have been difficult, but your win was guaranteed from the start of the match

[quick lichen]

Coming from the guy who’s complaining about a free win and not shooting the obvious lower plates 😂

7v5 isnt impressive

[uneven narwhal]

Yes take a low pen medium tank , put it up against a higher tier superheavy and complain about not being able to pen with standard rounds
That's not how this works........

[quick lichen]

Neither tank is angled like this and you even circled the grey lower plates on your own screenshot lol🤡

Also lol “they almost won” while you have a nearly 600 point lead

[wicked quest]

And ahead by 5 kills*

[quasi axle]

the comet isn't made to bully heavies, and in fact most if not all t7 meds/lights have awful pen but good dpm, so instead of trying to go heavy side go med side and use that dpm against targets that don't have as much armor

[winged barn]

Play tier 1. Everything is balanced there

[quick lichen]

If I am developer, I would never pay attention to what you have to say when you contradict yourself constantly. Nothing else I have to say.

[uneven narwhal]

Sounds like skill issue

[quick lichen]

You’re in a low tier medium designed to use its mobility to flank and shoot heavies in the sides and rear. Instead you sit in front of two of the most heavily armored tanks in tier 8, WHICH HAVE OBVIOUS WEAK POINTS IN YOUR OWN PICTURE, and complain that it’s the fault of the devs for making the tank and not you for playing incorrectly

[quick lichen]

+1

[wicked quest]

are you just gonna ignore everything because comet is already known to be pretty bad and vk is pretty much op compared to tier 7 and they are in a highly angled position but again

they literally pose no threat because they are hiding in a literal corner and the only way they bother you this much is you either decided to stand still and engage them or try fighting them anyways

[rare sleet]

That enemy tank sir is a whole tier above your tank. A different class of tank, and trades literally every single other statistic to boast its armor and its not even that good. just shoot its lower plate and hatch and ezpz pen

[quick lichen]

How dare high tier heavy tanks have armor compared to a low tier medium from the front

[nimble zodiac]

Are you complaining about the VK 168 just being in the corner being useless or the VK 168 when it actually does something?

[quick lichen]

Both

[winged barn]

Wait until he learns about the tiger 2

[wooden quest]

Oh lord the messiah has arrived. We shall boldy accpet your wisdom of which only you can bestow upon us. Somehow only you great lord compared to everybody else has the only correct opinion. Everybody else can easily kill these tanks and yet are called noobs but somehow you the greatest player of all the world cannot

[quasi axle]

How do other people have good stats in the comet if it's so unfair to go against german superheavies

[unique scaffold]

1.U are a med with good mobility
2.With a good damn accurate gun with high dpm that enables u to shoot the vks weak and huge cupola or lower glacias plate
3.With a HIGHER spotting range than the vks sitting in the corner so that the vks wouldnt notice if u shoot from range

And when u had these advantages over the vk u were dumb enough to move close to the vks and fight close range.

dude what kind of drugs are u on right now becaus i need some of those
😂

[rare sleet]

He probably thinks hes good while playing under new player mm

[quick lichen]

No no. You can’t speak anymore about this. To quote you “nothing else I have to say” so please don’t contradict yourself

Also. Are you admitting you want to buy an account? Here of all places?

[gleaming apex]

Odelic#2611 was banned

[uneven narwhal]

lmao guy really took the easy way out

[quasi axle]

man I missed out

[golden turret]

Same

[timber wing]

Lies. You're 4 parallel universe's ahead of them.

[golden turret]

i didnt foresee this because i was being held in chains

[silk hamlet]

large bruh moment

[uneven narwhal]

<@&481447501690568709> When will they learn sigh

[gleaming apex]

GATONEGRO23KRI#0370 was banned

[unique scaffold]

Did someone just complain about putting a comet in front of suoerheavies at tier 8? I missed out on something fun didn't I
P. S. Also put myself( in a comet) in front of 3 heavies at tier 8 once and didn't die bruh, why is he complaining.

[exotic goblet]

lmao what did he say

[uneven narwhal]

Complained that he couldn't pen two VK 168s sitting in a corner when he was in a Comet and practically called us all noobs

Also, his team were winning at 850 cap points, all 3 caps, and the two VKs just trolling by doing nothing in a corner lmao

Honestly he was very annoying and egoistic

[exotic goblet]

lmao wtf, love his logic. he probably thinks the comet should pen a maus frontally. I still remember him saying all phone players should be banned too lol. I hope it will be a perma ban

[versed tide]

Can pta get a buff to 9° over the side or front, it has Soviet med gun depression without any of armor that comes with it. @golden turret I mean I worked around it but it makes no sense why pta has 6 and Leo 1 has 9

[golden turret]

No. Speed and 105 go brrr

[quasi axle]

pta should have gun depression

[quick lichen]

Oh trust me, it has a lot of depression… especially stock

[scarlet fjord]

it should have maybe -7 that would be great

[quasi axle]

true, just like every other stock t9 med 😔

[quick lichen]

T55a, t54, Amx 30 proto, standard b and e50 all seem fine to me

[prisma jetty]

Skoda’s pretty good stock

[bitter fjord]

Type 61 is very bad

[quasi axle]

I edited it to say stock
@prisma jetty meh it's not awful but for a 310 alpha gun the dpm isn't that great and neither is the pen

[stray verge]

skill issue

[safe rapids]

Especially considering the stock gun is fairly competitive for the tier in terms of DPM and penetration.

[quasi axle]

huh weird thought it was 2.6k dpm apparently not
wait no I'm right it is 2.6k dpm because skoda can't run rammer

[safe rapids]

Weird, it says I can run rammer but that’s prob a mistake with BlitzStars.

[unique scaffold]

Dear wargamin pleaze Ban players below 50% wn from all types of special modes and rating battles bc i have 98%lose rate in burning battles
If you cud lose wn in burning i had be. 30% wn not 52%

[prisma jetty]

Ah brilliant. Ban everyone trying to have fun from fun game modes, how did we not think of this before

[sharp saddle]

Yes ban the majority of the playerbase from playing the modes that makes a lot of sense.
Special modes, really? It’s just a fun mode, caring too much about winning

[gleaming apex]

Dark_Soldier#9406 has been warned.

[uneven narwhal]

Skill issue

[gleaming apex]

zilver wolf#4048 has been warned.

[exotic goblet]

lmao do u know that the average wr is 48%, so u would be banning over half of the player base. And why do u even treat special gamemodes so seriously anyways. It isn't like ur wr is crazy high either

[drowsy plaza]

Irrelevant to balance. However: No player has the right to expect anyone to be banned from any game mode unless that player is violating the EULA/ToS. Future discussion on this will result in mutes etc.

[full token]

hes gon

[leaden flare]

You made urself a clown rn too

1. Read what crusader just said above
2. Read the rules again and maybe ud find out that what I just said violates the rules
3. You went down to his lvl and beat him with experience

[gleaming apex]

Yaha#9405 has been warned.

[quick lichen]

Do so while being polite and following the #rules

[unique scaffold]

Then you are going to be sanctioned for doing so.

[drowsy plaza]

It really isn’t hard to have a discussion politely. Regardless of how you personally feel about them.

[minor minnow]

Love the subtlety with the name, Spart

[quick lichen]

Mods can’t rename other mods smh

[winged barn]

Lol

[lone roost]

We all know the nerf of high tier heavies is just so WG can scam players more by releasing non nerfed premium heavies.

[uneven narwhal]

Kindly read the definition of scam and research as to what is the heavy meta in WoTB
Thanks

[lone roost]

I've said the same thing in WOTB streams and they all agree

[uneven narwhal]

Which WoTB Streams?
And who agrees?

[last shadow]

His alt accounts agree

[lone roost]

First of all that's a dumb question and the streamers and the viewers agree too

[uneven narwhal]

How is that a dumb question lol?
I just asked for proof to back up your argument since the only people that call crates a "scam" are the people who don't understand what a scam is

[sharp saddle]

WOTB streams also had a live chat full of people berating wargaming, saying the IS-4 nerf was unneeded

[uneven narwhal]

People are unhappy with these heavy nerfs because now they are going to take a little bit more brain to play
IS-4 nerf is so insignificant tho like 150 HP ok?
I still got that armor profile, gun and speed

Except for the 215b
IDK why WG thought it needed a nerf

[lone roost]

It was needed though for the IS4

[uneven narwhal]

......
Pick a side dude

[last shadow]

https://tenor.com/view/im-playing-both-sides-both-sides-its-always-sunny-frank-retires-s10e09-gif-17913970

[abstract oar]

fix 140 turret

[golden turret]

https://tenor.com/view/skill-issue-gif-21913959

[abstract oar]

when using heat its armor is literally a joke

[full token]

its intended to be like that. I think you mean to say it needs a buff

[abstract oar]

yes something must be done with the 140

[golden turret]

When using HEAT all armor is a joke (except for spaced armor)

[mental pasture]

Yes and no.
If the enemy armor is based on angled armor, you might do better if using AP.

@hollow nacelle If you start to play IS-3 properly then you'll never need a side armor buff. Show your turret, not your sides.

@winged barn Großtraktor rear armor buff > T32 side armor buff
xp

[hollow nacelle]

how about is3 side armor buff
ok

[lone roost]

No

[winged barn]

How about a t32 side armor buff?

[abstract oar]

For most of the turrets you need to aim but for the 140 turret you just have to hit it somewhere, even leo turret bounces more shells than 140s

[golden turret]

cough Leo 1 cough

[terse heron]

Did you just say ap is better at penning angled armor that heat pls do your research before saying that my guy. Heat pens angled armor better normalization doesn't matter

[mental pasture]

Maybe you're the one that needs to do a research. Do you know a factor called as 'Normalization angle'? @terse heron

Tell this to a Ho-Ri III. It's the best effective penetration that the game can offer.

Exactly@fallow eagle

[fallow eagle]

I think the proper way to say it is heat can pen upto 85° of angled armor but ap shells get normalization which requires less mm of penetration for them to go through armor
Is that correct?

[abstract oar]

So what about a Object 140 turret armor buff? Yes or No? It shouldn't be as strong as the T-62A's turret, it just shouldn't be pierced when hitting it anywhere.

[uneven narwhal]

Not needed, it has speed, a lovely gun and DPM
It's not meant to be a hulldown tank

[mental pasture]

AP is (usually) the best shell to run in your tank, regardless. In therms of damage, penetration, shell speed, normalization angle and rather small penetration loss over distance.

HEAT is only a valid choice for spam if your's abuses of penetration values (or if you're a T49)

@abstract oar Object 140 is (not) a T-62a. Feel free to brawl a bit more and hull down a bit less.
That's why you come closer to your enemy instead of what a T-62a would do

[thick rover]

5A buff maybe