tank-balance-discussion

[boreal crag]

i dont think the mods like links though
even if its just a gif
or is that just spartacus that makes a big deal out of everything?

[full token]

you take 0 seconds to do 450, and the emil needs 6 seconds to do 900. If you cant use that to hide, the problem isnt the emil

[meager spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-skill-issue-gif-21867945

[unique scaffold]

y you are my problem you no play and no what i talk about ! many say this and this this tank is worthy this no buy - buy this because you kill 3 enem and your stupid team win ! my problem is your knowledge of game ! and skill ? 6000 hour many Mastery budge on tier 1-8 and you say no skill ? i lead many team to victory but i ask --- you all are usless

[meager spruce]

For God's sake man, please learn some grammar to prevent me from losing more brain cells with your atrocious English.

Also I am fairly certain almost if not all the people who are telling you it is your fault for not knowing how to play a tank correctly, are significantly better than you. And if you want to start talking about statistics then please do share the name of your account

[twin egret]

She's too stubborn to learn/get help

[drowsy plaza]

@unique scaffold You seen to have major issues understanding armor profiles. If an Emil I is farming you in a VK, you are exposing something very foolishly. Use cover / and never be afraid to Ram one / it has a colossal reload, and you can track it and Ram it repeatedly during that time if it is that close. If not / you have an alpha advantage and peek a boom it on your terms, or shoot it when it is distracted if it’s hulldown.

[full token]

They just think there is absolutely no way for them to improve in the game, so everything else needs to be changed now

[outer glen]

I cant stop laughing while reading this guy explanation
Emil already got nerfed wdym

[gleaming apex]

Polar#9094 has been warned.

[safe rapids]

Especially since it’s impossible to hear what you’re saying. It is a skill issue, the VK isn’t that hard to play so you obviously need some tips.

[exotic goblet]

1. Get your stats right. Emil full clip doesn’t do 900 and vk 100 doesn’t do 450
2. Anyone who says armour is useless would of course struggle. You only hate autoloaders because they can punish brainless noobs who don't know how their armour works more than single shot tanks.
3. Wtf is wrong with your grammar, took me 2 times to understand you.
4. Grow up kid and GIT GUD
5. Love how you specified mastery in tier 1 - 8 because you are probably unable to ace in anything higher than that. It isn’t that hard and it doesn’t make you good because a lot of time luck is a big factor.
6. I actually really admire anyone who can get masteries because I find it to be hard. So please can you tell me your in-game-name so I can learn from you?

[shadow estuary]

Is that google translation? 👀

[tepid fog]

Is Wotb has a SBMM? (Skill based matchmaking) I know it's kinda stupid to ask cuz low tier like 1-3 been dead for while now since 5.5 (in Asia server, I don't know what's current status on other servers)

[nimble zodiac]

I think there was a system in place after you won or lost a certain amount of battles, but ignoring that, a platoon will rarely land a battle in low tier since it needs an enemy platoon to be matched with. If you’re alone, I guess it’s dead, and most of the player in low tiers are the ones going through bot MM as a tutorial

If that’s how it works, anyways 🤔

Oh and what if we have milanmrlian unable to see this channel?

[leaden flare]

Sbmm isn't part of Blitz the closest you get to it would be ranked with rbmm but yeah low player counts make it somewhat impossible to work out

[unique scaffold]

I hope they don't nerf 60tp too hard. I want it to be a way better E100.

[prisma jetty]

It won't be way better, but probably better in armor, with similar mobility, and a slightly worse gun

[nimble zodiac]

Oh you want a badly balanced tank? 😤

[safe rapids]

60TP actually has worse turret traverse than E100 lol

[prisma jetty]

Doesn't matter when it can point it's turret straight at the opponent

[tepid fog]

I mean back in 2016 (the year I joined the game) Low tiers always the fun place whenever you're bored on high tiers and now it's dead now on the lower tier only toxicity and racism in high tier

[nimble zodiac]

Turn chat off, ez

[drowsy plaza]

@tepid fog relevance to balance?

[halcyon berry]

maybe like

1. hide lower plate
2. angle tank
3. dont let an emil 1 clip you ???
4. dont peek tanks you cant pen ???
5. aim for weakspots ???
6. play a different tank if vk s too hard
7. you dont need to spend money because tech tree tanks are actually good if you use them correctly

[tepid fog]

More likely

[nimble zodiac]

They're asking what relates it to the balance of the game's tanks

Aka we don't talk about MM here, we talk about how strong tanks are and what changes they need to be more balanced

[tepid fog]

Oh...

[crisp whale]

Is the IS-2 Berlin not going to receive any changes? All other IS variants at tier 7 are getting changed.

[golden turret]

I feel like it’s somewhat balanced. I can completely dominate one in my Vulcan.

[pale cedar]

I feel like the IS series tanks have plenty already however the KV-5 needs an armor buff to compensate for the better tanks coming out IS series tanks seem to be more common and the kv-5 cannot do much damage against them due to their armor profiles a dps buff and an armor buff are needed for the kv-5

[hidden ingot]

is obj 244 coming in 8.1 or 8.4?

[safe rapids]

It’ll test in 8.1 but will probably come out maybe 8.2 or 8.3

[twin egret]

Make it have its top gun have the same DPM as the stock gun, maybe buff the front of the tank by 10mm

[rare sleet]

no

[gleaming apex]

Stonehenge_30_12_2017#8766 was muted

[unique scaffold]

I'm fine with a worse gun and mobility. I just hope it has atleast 8 degrees of gun depression and a solid turret

[nocturne mauve]

Nerf heavies

[pale cedar]

Some heavies need buffs not nerfs you start nerfing heavies the way I assume you would like them to be they would be no different from medium tanks same amount of health firepower but way slower. everyone is entitled to their own opinions. The kv-5 and older tanks like it could use a buff to armor and either increased pen values or increased dmg to compensate and be able to fight tanks properly as of current its 107 mm cannon does very little against certain tanks almost like it's a medium tanks gun thrown on a super heavy because the factory decided to cut a couple thousand dollars by making the tank with a smaller caliber cannon. Frontal armor yes the side and rear armor is fine I mean it's not that hard to understand IS series tanks have no problem knocking out the kv-5 because the kv-5 cannot pen IS series armor

[twin egret]

I didnt really know that the kv-5 had that much HP

[pale cedar]

@twin egret technically speaking the kv-5 can have a bit more health if you use the added hp equipment instead of the increased armor it can have a little over 2k health.it's a good tank I love it but because of the high turret profile it's harder to get good hits on is series tanks unless you catch em off guard and shoot them in the exposed side or rear and if you are really lucky you can get a belly shot on an IS tank but facing them head on will only lead to the kv-5 blowing up as it does not have enough firepower to penetrate IS armor when it is facing the kv-5 head on

[crisp whale]

Except this is assuming that both tanks stand still in the open and pen every shot. This is never going to happen in the actual game.

[real bison]

mind you any IS tank would be foolish to facehug a KV-5

Especially a 252 with its height

[prisma lava]

bruh I hate how you guys make the E 100 gun better than the maus, they show the same damage ratio, it's 460 but in the battlefields, the E 100 damage can go up to 700+ but for Maus? only -600

Pls buff, Maus lovers like me can't live with this for long

[nimble zodiac]

Because Maus is more armor-oriented, and E100 trades turret armor for damage?

Also E100 has two guns, the stock gun is Maus's gun, and then it gets a 15cm, which does 640 on average, which is what you're confusing as the same gun Maus has

[sharp saddle]

Maus already has enough advantages anyway. If you want a buff for the Maus, you are probably not playing it correctly

[jagged crescent]

You can literally yolo with the Maus. It’s so fun.

[exotic goblet]

Bruh how did u get to tier 10 without knowing something so basic? E100 has 2 guns, one does 460 and one does 640 while maus only has the 460 gun, nobody ever uses the 460 gun on the E100. How tf did u not know this playing at tier 10? You should have known about this when you played tier 9. Also if any of these two tht needs a buff its the E100 because its turret armour is way too thin for a super heavy

[paper skiff]

Bruh

[prisma lava]

Bruh you guys hate Maus tanks huh

[full token]

yes ofc we hate the maus because we dared to disagree with you

[real bison]

nah if you think the maus sucks, go have a look at #devs-answers and the maus’s winrate

@prisma lava 45° is a horrible angle for the maus, plus, most tanks can pen the maus’s turret cheeks.

[prisma lava]

if I angle my maus like 45 degrees, and the E 100 shoots, it should bounce, not pen, that ain't fair and the E 100's damage is higher than the Maus, there is no chance for the maus to win!!!!

[distant river]

That's not how armour or the game works at all

But 10/10 for trying I guess

[remote oriole]

If you angle the Maus 45 degrees you are horribly overangled

[full token]

that just simplifies the game too much. Angle x degrees to bounce...

[teal palm]

Gold star for effort

[frail silo]

You are angling wrong, or at least that is what the people above are saying.
And the E100 has a HEAT shell with 340mm of pen.

[quasi axle]

im pretty sure even if you angle 340mm heat can go through

[full token]

lower plate will usually be a weakspot, if you want the side armor to be red, but thats why you use a building and angle

[prisma jetty]

Angle the hull at 30 degrees and the turret at 45. If you have your lower plate hidden, then it is incredibly hard to penetrate you at these angles.

[distant river]

That's what you'll see with standard/prammo/prammo with CS

[leaden flare]

i still dont get how WT is not getting any nerf

that tank is spammed all the time everywhere in ranked because its broken as hell
it overshadowes every single TD at T9 by a mile and can be considered better then a few T10s

OP gun
Turret
mobility
consumables
Spall Liner
DPM
camo rating

it has everything

And personally i have no clue how WG hasnt realised that yet

[tepid latch]

Agree

[paper ferry]

what do you guys think the 60TP stats (leaks on reddit), if it was 100% it will just be the most useless tank I have ever seen, but if it is 50% crew stats it will be the most overpowered tank with sub 3k dpm and E100 health meanwhile being a super heavy

[sharp saddle]

All its stats are subject to change, so I am really not concerned with how it is currently.

[nocturne mauve]

Heavies need to be limited to like 3 per team or something, so boring when most tanks are heavies

[plush perch]

60tp will still be a good tank

[winged barn]

bUt tHe 6oTp dOesN't oUtClAsS tHe E1o0

[plush perch]

More like: oMg wHy 60tP 560 aLPhA, iT cAnT mAkE e1o0 usEleSs. f U wG u sUcK!

[nocturne mauve]

Remove heavy meta

[pale cedar]

@nocturne mauve that's not gonna happen

[plush perch]

in small map game wotb , hts are always gonna rule

[nocturne mauve]

Nah they only rule because of their HP

[distant river]

^ it was fine before the hp buffs, tier 10 was very well balanced tbh

[remote oriole]

Yup, I think they buffed the hp because it was too balanced

[winged barn]

too balanced
Oh no, we can't possibly have balance

[versed tide]

imagine having balance

[rare sleet]

But I'd still rather have the 60Tp with 640 alpha and like a 17.5s reload than a 560 alpha with a 15.8s reload

[nimble zodiac]

Deal with the special alpha 😎

[plush perch]

because then it would be kinda broken

[full token]

15.8 without equipment and provisions
Also why play an e100 if the 60tp gets better armor and 640 alpha

[hazy mortar]

The patton line needs a buff

[exotic goblet]

lol nobody hates the maus its just that it doesn't need a buff. Just because you suck in it doesn't mean its bad

[scenic void]

I feel like WG should implement a feature where you can use boosters AFTER a battle.

[full token]

Obv that’s too good to happen

[quasi axle]

Nah that removes the skill aspect from boosters where if you're good you get more out of em

[rare sleet]

Maus is amazing I dunno what u on about its quite a good spearhead heavy tank or for holding positions with 3000 hitpoints and its armor

[halcyon berry]

omfg ikr

[jagged crescent]

I love my Maus

[acoustic sparrow]

really? is the effective armor any better, because blitzstars says its worse than the e 100

[vast notch]

Buff tiger 131s front armor

[plush perch]

buff vk 16 02 penetration and lower prammmo cost

[gritty crescent]

its a tier 5

[frail silo]

Blitzstars doesn't show effective armor it shows base values
To see effective armor look at it in blitz hangar, Though i don't know the nature of this info so maybe it still isn't modeled there yet

[acoustic sparrow]

oh ok

[nimble zodiac]

It’s against HEAT/HESH/HE, since it doesn’t account for any normalization

Might as well use armor inspector, since 60TP isn’t there iirc

[uneven narwhal]

This is supposedly the armor profile

[hearty steeple]

._.
Yep that's all my reaction.

[rare sleet]

so what you're saying is that its going to be nerfed. aint no high hell I want to face that in a medium tank.

@bronze osprey it will be good trader so just poke and shoot and move back not much time to aim when it in good hull down spot

[bronze osprey]

the turret ring will still be fairly easy to hit due to not having -8

[paper ferry]

well you are not suppose to face tank a super heavy in a med

[uneven narwhal]

I mean mediums mostly have an accurate gun so you chan shoot the turret ring and the cheeks, perhaps even cupola

[worn compass]

Seems to have quite a weak drivers hatch, so that’ll be a spot tanks with low pen will try aim for and the hatch on the turret

[hearty steeple]

The cupola that can mostly be hidden or is as tiny as that on kranbang. Same with the turret ring. Sure, you can probably make those shots in a 62a or leopard but most meds aren't going to hit them reliably unless they are at facehugging range. Even the drivers hatches require gold.

well you are not suppose to face tank a super heavy in a med

Also if you are the last med against a 60tp, what are you going to do, not fight him? Sure atleast in this scenario we can assume 60tp is alone and you can approach from the sides and rear but then look at the next scenario

the 60tp is actually smart and rolls his tank down med flank. Yeah gg, you can't deal with that armour profile even with heat, you get severely out traded by the tank. Better hope you got some heavies to back you up.

[twin egret]

They could do a little bit of math like taking away []%, shell normalization of the shell

[rare sleet]

When I roll my is7 down med flank the meds have a dam hard time trying to pen me

[unique scaffold]

Ey wargaming can u plz seperate china server and asia server plz? Cuz china has too many hackers cant play cuz of thoes hackers or sell server changing tickets plz

[nimble zodiac]

😂

[vital basalt]

its... already a seperate server but ok

[full token]

Hackers in blitz are mostly just people who outplay others and their victims can’t comprehend how they managed to lose

[uneven narwhal]

Hacking Blitz is more impossible than WG nerfing Anni

@unique scaffold It's called auto aim but ok
Module placement mods are really irrelevant, unicums already know their location
And literally anyone can use the hitskins for module placement

[unique scaffold]

Mean aim hack mod or module place mod

[last shadow]

Aim hack?
That's something new

[remote oriole]

There are a couple of unfair cheats you can use in Blitz so the claim is not without merit. Anyways, about the 60TP:

🤨

[last shadow]

That emote pretty much sums it up

[stuck acorn]

for me 60TP seems kind of bad at the moment. Not like trash impossible to play, but bad. It's slow, gun seems to be not that good and armor isn't great too. I mean it doesn't need much to be okay, nobody wants E100 to be useless so i agree with 560 alpha idea, but it would make much more sense with 8 degrees of gun depression/better turret ring armor so it won't be that easy to pen while in hulldown

[full token]

have you seen the armor

[quasi axle]

"armor isn't great" it's nearly impenetrable even with hori prammo

[prisma jetty]

It’s exactly as I said it would be, worse gun, comparable mobility, and better armor when compared to the E100

[gleaming apex]

tapitapi#6969 was softbanned

[lyric iron]

are anni/smasher balanced yet? I've been on a hiatus waiting for this

[prisma jetty]

They’re balanced for tier 9.

[full token]

wg is buffing tier 7s to counter them

[uneven narwhal]

Don't have hope for that lmao

[lyric iron]

t7 is unplayable

[versed tide]

Idk I think 6p will be fairly good just because it can trade, has cracked armor, and also may be a tank worth putting enhanced armor on because it would make the upper plate 330mm+ on flat ground

[hearty steeple]

enchanted armour... hmm enchanted with what, fire protection maybe, but ig blast protection will be preferable because i heard its ammorack blows.

[charred oak]

Not really a balance but, can you fix the problem with the flashing upon getting hit? Many people have weak eyes and cant stand getting spammed by some random Leopard.

[stiff edge]

play a higher tier without machine gun tanks 🧠

[gleaming apex]

Haru rushing E#9220 has been warned.

[versed tide]

Epig spling fom me

[stuck acorn]

of course i seen armor. it's easy to peneetrate when you know how to move your mouse and aim

@full token maybe not every time, but still armor that can be penetrated just with little bit of aiming isn't something worth trading your whole gun for

[full token]

i know you wont be hitting that with ease every time

[versed tide]

Bruh all armor can be penned with “a little bit of aiming”

[prisma jetty]

Have fun hitting a little slit while the tank is wiggling lol

[boreal crag]

ok pen maus with pz 2 j

[winged barn]

Its penetrable with the pz38h thing

[rare sleet]

not when the maus is wiggling about

[versed tide]

haha funny now shut

[boreal crag]

Hey I'm just saying that if all armor is pennable with a little bit of aiming then why you mad when i tell you to pen a Maus with a Pz 2 J? You can just aim right?

@winged barnalso yeah i think so on the roof

[winged barn]

Nah, straight through the upper glacis plate

As in the mini maus can literally pen the maus straight through its front plate

[boreal crag]

Oh right because its a mini maus
How could i forget xD

[real bison]

personally agree, we should be able to change the intensity of the colours when we get hit or outright disable it

but anyways about the rest of the 60TP line...

[old sparrow]

This games match making is so bad, I mean you should never lose 15 team games in a row

[real bison]

imagine complains about MM in a channel where it’s not allowed

If you’re losing 15 games in a row, firstly, take a break. Have some water.

Secondly, it may be the fact that you aren’t having as much as an impact in games compared to what you want to do.

[old sparrow]

I thought balance was about the game when you avg 2 kills and still get smoked there is a problem

[real bison]

Kills ≠ skill

losing 15 in a row shouldn’t be a “fate” or “coincidence”, or even “bias”

They can still happen sure, but it’s incredibly unlikely, the MM is completely meant to be random

[gleaming apex]

AquaHolic67-G4-0#4447 was muted

[drowsy plaza]

Imagine getting muted for not talking about balance. And complaining about Mm when it is strictly prohibited in this channel. It’s a shocker I say. 🤪

[open kayak]

what does balance consider?
Like tank armour or dpm balance?

[quasi axle]

Every aspect of a tank

[nimble zodiac]

Every. Single. One.

[open kayak]

ok so about the BDR G1 B: armor can't be that easily penetrated, so id say make it have a few more weak spots at least in the front, other than the one bar;
About the maus, the down part of the side should be penetrable but shouldn't damage you considering there are 3 layers of armour: side, tracks, and generally the hull.
that's all i got for now, hope it gets considered

[quasi axle]

Maus is fine pramo from heavies pens the turret fairly easily

[nimble zodiac]

Oh and we ignore tier 5s for two reasons, but you can talk about them anyway.

1 - WG has forsaken it and threw balance (mostly in heavies) in the dumpster

2 - We play higher tiers more often

[leaden flare]

The balance in T5 is Smth I have no clue as to why it doesn't get fixed

How is it possible to kill KV 1 because it was OP and then buff T1 and BDR to the point where they are impennable monster and some low tier tanks can't even pen the sides with pranmo in case of T1

I'm not playing lowtier except for the rare occasion of grinding but even then the balance issues down there are very obvious just as the problem with Heavys having always the upper hand over everything

[rare sleet]

Maus is beast because needing to fire pramo lowers tanks Dpm and people still bounce pramo so with a 3000 health buffer it is A mega sponge

[nocturne mauve]

Wish it got a nerf though

[drowsy plaza]

The biggest problem with the Maus is because the Mouse Trap award, a lot of players focus it early. They don’t understand it’s a tank one should leave for last as the relatively low DPM and high armor and HP means it can be more safely ignored for other higher threat targets.

It’s not like a Maus is going to chase you down at end game (unless you’re AFK)

[twin egret]

Free damage though and easy to kill if everyone can aim tho

[drowsy plaza]

But the time it takes to kill one if the rest of the other team is awake they have taken a few of you. Unless the Maus totally can’t angle and drives into the open sideways.

[prisma jetty]

I totally forgot that the Maus Trap award even existed. I will now focus all Mauses I see.

[quaint raptor]

Amx30b needs reload time buff

[nimble zodiac]

Ah yes, advocate for this once it came back out in shop

[nimble zodiac]

KV-1 was admittedly strong, but nowhere near as OP back then as T1/BDR is now

[real bison]

It takes around 40s for a Leopard 1 with rammer to completely destroy a maus

Why waste 40s there when you could be using that DPM on other, less armoured, and lower HP tanks?

[remote oriole]

Eh… it was pretty on par, you were basically impenetrable when sidescraping and had a high alpha gun with ok reload

[full token]

vk 45 03 is strong now. Bouncy

[hasty flame]

What about indien-panzer? Nobody cares about it

[sharp saddle]

I haven’t seen one in months.
RU 251 is just pretty solid and more fun to play.
Besides, going the RU 251 route makes more sense. It is better in preparing the player and knowing what to expect when they get to the Leopard tanks as it is a similar playstyle. With the Indien, it’s a bit of an outlier.

[violet sedge]

Leo 1 line is definetely not for beginners

[outer glen]

Buff cent7 turret cheeks and gun mantlet :)

Buff conqu turret+3/2gun depression and buff tort armor :)

[tidal palm]

Buff isu-152 speed

[dull stone]

When will the 13-57 camo get fixed? It has camo rating worse than maus. It's not a joke - 13-57 is 20-20-5 whereas maus is 26-24-4

[winged barn]

Base stats are what you want to look at.

[unique scaffold]

I never knew the amx 13 57 had that bad camo

[dull stone]

It's horrible still.

[winged barn]

It's fairly normal camo for tier 7 mediums. And for the most part, camo is a worthless stat

And my lvl 7 camo skill pushes it above anything nublets have for camo

[remote oriole]

Hold up

Camouflage is not a worthless stat if you play long range (camping) or medium range (flanking) engagements. Especially for medium range engagements it’s vital that you know spotting mechanics to avoid taking unnecessary hits.

But yes, the camo skill is one of the skills that give you the most advantage compared to someone who doesn’t have the skill at all

[frozen patrol]

Give gustav gun to wäffentrager

[boreal crag]

At this point you are just trolling

[dull stone]

It is not a tier 7 medium. It is light tank that is smaller than all tanks of the level. 13 75 which is literally of the same size has much better camo.

[nimble zodiac]

To be fair AMX 13 57 is a bit taller, longer, and less wider than AMX 13 75, and possesses a pretty long gun in comparison

I mean if the Grille 15 has taught me anything

[real bison]

Who would have more camo?

moving gunshield

literal barn on a centurion hull

@nimble zodiac reasonable answer

[nimble zodiac]

You see, when you look like a barn, that can trick the enemy into thinking you're an actual barn, hence the higher camo rating

[plush perch]

gun is also 123mm only

[real bison]

still, the 4005 is massive and lumbering compared to the grille

[slim trellis]

Buff kpf dispersion, the dpm is already enough of a balance factor you dont need to make people miss fully aimed in shots after waiting 15 seconds after they just got a 480 roll

[twin egret]

Why doesn't WG give FV215b Calibrated Retical xd, I find Reactive Armour so useless on it because of the low HP, and the fact you only hae 15 or 20 seconds

[shut pulsar]

Maybe because the FV has the best gun handling of all T10 heavies.

[safe rapids]

Buff FV HP to 2350 or somewhere around there.

[unique scaffold]

Hello guys, i noticed that the AMX 13 57 penetration was buffed to 160, then why my amx still haves 144 pen.?

[twin egret]

Make it better then smh

[safe rapids]

You’re probably thinking of the AMX 13 75 which has 144 mm of pen.

[unique scaffold]

There (fr i had to wait 10 minutes? lol)

[dusky anchor]

can wg just stop making the mm biased so I dont have to spend money on over powered tanks edit: my bad its their business model Its never gonna happen and I am gonna get banned for an issue that needs to be solved

[unique scaffold]

Buying tanks won’t make you a better player and this channel isn’t about matchmaking.

#pinned-messages
#reading

[nimble zodiac]

You're not being banned for the issue, you're being banned for falsely perpetrating the existence of that issue 🤔

[stray verge]

-MM or Moon Men is a clan in the NA server. They made a few top eight appearances and have very good players.

[versed tide]

.

[scarlet fjord]

are they buffing IS-7 armor profile or not? in blitz hanger i cant tell the difference lol

[nimble zodiac]

IS-7 being “great” is a bad thing in terms of balance :)

IS-7 is already balanced

[bronze osprey]

agreed, is7 is fine in terms of balance, if it gets an armor buff it will just become pc heavy meta, we dont need unpenable heavy's that can clock 55kph

[nimble zodiac]

I mean it's 50 but yeah

[uneven narwhal]

IS-7 is a decent tank really
Problem is that IS-4 exists and people don't get the fact that even if the IS-4 is better than the IS-7, that does not make the IS-7 a bad tank

[nimble zodiac]

Same could be said about T-2020 in retrospect to 252U :)

Well for tier 8, T-2020 is balanced, if not above

[uneven narwhal]

IDK about that, I don't have either of those tanks so can't comment 😂

[scarlet fjord]

i want it to replace IS-4 its been at the top for too long its disgusting how WG doesnt change the meta often enough

[stray verge]

IS-7 was meta for a long time. The more meta IS-4 was the break the IS-7 needed

[scarlet fjord]

IS-4 is now meta for years its getting very boring just as boring in fact as the tank itself
and they keep buffing these tanks like E5 its already great but they keep giving more and more its so cringe

[full token]

I don’t think they’re going to nerf the heavy hp at all. If they do, they’ll be nerfing premiums too, and that’s a no no thing for WG even if it affects a tank class entirely

[scarlet fjord]

they should of went easy with the hp buff and thought of that issue being possible before overcooking heavies the past couple of years their balance team never ceases to amaze me with the literally dumb decisions

[indigo knot]

I think they will continue with the tier 7 buffs to higher tiers
Tho I really wish they change the meta every 10-12 months.... sticking to same class after a while gets boring

[scarlet fjord]

exactly game gets interesting when you need to figure out what is meta now and how has the old meta changed etc many games use this trick where every few months they buff or even sometimes over buff something and over nerf other things and allow everything to have its shining moments and downtimes makes it more interesting cuz its diverse

[nocturne mauve]

Heavy meta is just awful because it drags the game and ruins kolobanovs if the last enemies are heavies

[unique scaffold]

Is obj.268 whorse to get

[full token]

its good

[outer glen]

Add reticle and engine boost on 183 ez 183 meta

[scarlet fjord]

i get that heavies should be generally stronger than the other classes
but WG give heavies way too much mobility for how strong they are specially the op speed boost nonsense its soooo dumb its mind blowing to me just look at the E5's power to weight ratio when using op speed boost
look at IS-4's armor and decent mobility the 113 even look at the 50B its practically very similar to med mobility but it has way more hp's and a TD gun WG need to understand that meds have strength in mobility and DPM and a little camo maybe gun depression
but if u give all that to heavies too how are meds supposed to compete
dont even get me started on TD's right now lol

[latent snow]

They should atleast have reasonably worst view range

[nocturne mauve]

They just need less HP

[frail silo]

I think the 50b can keep the hp.

[safe rapids]

Yeah, that works.

[drowsy plaza]

They really don’t need less HP, what many heavies need is a mobility nerf and a view range nerf. Right now many heavies are nearly as fast and the view ranges are close enough for Blitz that many heavies can simply lock down an area and can not reliably be effectively flanked by many meds.

[versed tide]

Imagine view range in blitz

[remote oriole]

Heavies need a shell velocity nerf to ruin their long and medium range fighting ability

[plush perch]

just nerf view range on all of them thank you

[uneven narwhal]

View range would be a viable nerf IMO because heavies basically can spot for themselves
A vast majority of the T10 heavies have 264m with Double Food while the lights have 280m, 296m, 274m, on the BatChat, Vickers, and Sheridan Respectively
This is barely any difference
Lights and mediums are gaining what? Like 10-15m view range increase which is not even viable and speed advantage while heavies having everything else

[remote oriole]

So nerf their shell velocity so heavies only have an advantage in close combat, ez fix

[drowsy plaza]

Some already have poor relative velocity. But in 9/10 it’s fairly irrelevant for Blitz map sizes.

[sudden path]

Supercharge makes shell velocity nerfs irrelevant

[lusty pond]

swiggly swooty i want that now lol

[remote oriole]

Not if you nerf enough. That also means that they cannot take the gun laying drive which is even better. The idea isn’t to make heavies useless in general, the idea is to significantly nerf heavies (view range is not an important statistic) and restrict them to a close quarters combat, something a viewrange nerf could never achieve (in fact, I believe a viewrange nerf would only incentivise heavies to rush/ yolo)

It’s both easy and effective, and it will make heavies a pain to play on long ranges. This achieves everything a heavy nerf needs to achieve without meddling with a complex game mechanic such as spotting that requires a lot of care

P.S.: The reason why a shell velocity nerf won’t incentivise to yolo is because the heavy can see the targets and thus doesn’t feel forced to close in to spot them. They still will have to close in to be the most effective but not many people like driving into the open in front of spotted tanks

[full token]

Is a shell velocity nerf or view range nerf even possible for premium heavies with WG and their dislike of nerfing premiums?

[remote oriole]

Just don’t write it in the patch notes

[shut pulsar]

There are better things to buff on it, like hp or mobility smh 🤦‍♂️

[plush perch]

just nerf their hp

[remote oriole]

No, I would prefer to leave them superiority in close combat

[frozen patrol]

Wt needs gustav gun

[stuck acorn]

For me rework of view range is needed for all clases of tanks in the game. At the moment camouflage has completly no meaning and even slow heavies that are suposed to be blind can spot TD at the back which for me is just stupid. Lights are just little bit faster mediums but with worse armor, those classes for now have nearly same job in the battle and there is nearly no difference between them. Here is what i think it should look like:
T10 Heavies shouldn't have more than 200m of base view range and shouldn't be able to mount couted optics and their camo should be nerfed. (i'm not talking here about heavy tank class nerf, they need to be nerfed in own different way, it's just spotting system change)
For the mediums those tanks should have their view range nerfed to around 220-240 base with ability to mount coated optics
For the Lights, their view range should be left as it is, so their will be finally able to be spotters, but in exchange their guns should get some nerfs so they won't be just faster mediums with less armor anymore.
and finally for Tank destroyers, just remove their coated optics and give them binoculars (idk if this equipment was called like this, but i'm talking about this equipment that was removed during 3.5 if i remmeber correctly that allowed you to have better view range while being stationary for over 3 seconds) and nerf their view range to little bit below medium level.

[frozen patrol]

Yay. No more carries in a td or heavy then. And MM will go crazy. If a single team lacks lights then game automatically over.

[frail silo]

That isn't too bad.
It creates new battle scenarios and makes light tanks an actual viable part of the team. Or at least more viable.
Light tanks should be the eyes of the team, and mediums as a worse replacement. If they aren't then there is no point of them.

[drowsy plaza]

@stuck acorn so you want to rework the entire game to simply deal with the fact nearly all heavies are overcooked at the moment?

A simply view range nerf to heavies and a hit to their mobility means they can’t get to spots and lock them down. They are then more team reliant.

[twin egret]

HP buff is cringe, mobility buff sounds really nice actually :content:

[scarlet fjord]

imo u need to nerf the mobility of heavies with exceptions and slightly nerf hp
i disagree with the view range nerf as the system at tier 10 is bonkers as is its not just the heavies that have imba view range
and for the love of god WG nerf the DUMB 374 HEAT on heavies its TD level pen like GOD ur balance team baffles me
only leave it for tanks like 57 heavy and 50B

[jagged crescent]

What if we nerfed the running time for premium consumables? Like enhanced engine boost only lasts for 12 seconds instead of a default 15

[prisma cipher]

Smasher still need a nerf it oneshots most of VI tanks

[remote oriole]

No, his rework is unrelated to the current balance but rather seeks to make the spotting system more meaningful by making it more unbalanced. As he himself states: “I’m not talking here about heavy tank class nerf, they need to be nerfed in own different way, it’s just spotting system change”.

Heavies in my opinion should receive a substantial shell velocity nerf as this won’t hurt the key playstyle of the class.

On the spotting system rework:
This rework is mostly designed to create an actual difference between lights and mediums and not to even the field between lights/mediums and heavies. As for td, they can just take the values of the class they are closest to, e.g. T95 in the heavy class and Grille 15 in the medium class.

At the moment most of the spotting differences are realised through camouflage instead of view range. I believe that changing the base view range to correlate with the base camouflage (aka the more base camouflage you have the more base viewrange you have) would be an adequate step to further stress the different functions of tanks and makes the spotting differences more noticeable.

I mostly see a problem with the usefulness of this rework. The situation where spotting matters are relatively few at the moment, and even with such a substantial rework I don’t see the meta changing much because the maps are too small and the tanks are too fast to fully use the scouting potential of a tank during every battle.

My final opinion on the rework is that it’s a nice idea, but we’d need to either see a change in maps/ map size or a change in mobility of all tanks to see it fulfil its intended purpose. As such, it’s too early to implement it but it would be a good class distinguishing option once spotting plays a greater role in the game

[hasty vault]

can i ask something? why the first gun on the foch b isnt a 640 alpha gun and it is a 560 ?

[real bison]

^ why is the stock gun not even close to viable

[remote oriole]

Shell velocity nerfs is the medicine you’re looking for 👀

[full token]

All they seem to do is try to find a way to put their stats into everything and then say that others shouldnt speak

[remote oriole]

This is the poorest conduct we’ve had in this channel for months

[drowsy plaza]

Enough with the personal attacks

[tender nexus]

god help them

@unique scaffoldskill issue

[uneven narwhal]

Apologies for that

[last shadow]

runs supercharged shells instead of gun laying drive

[real bison]

still wanna speculate on how the rest of the 60TP line will be balanced

[safe rapids]

Tier VII is just a worse T29 or an M-VII-Yoh with a front mounted turret, Tier VIII is basically a IS-3/VK4502A hybrid with a big weak hull, an IS-3 like turret and a 122mm gun with 420 damage most likely, Tier IX is in short, E75 powercreep with a lot of armor, decent mobility, and a big old 130 mm gun. It’ll probably be broken because Tier IX vehicles just tend to be that way.

[twin egret]

^ what?

[drowsy plaza]

He’s guessing with absolutely no basis for it.

[remote oriole]

You know, that’s actually good because it makes that piece of equipment relevant (however, it should probably be nerfed for heavies). Naturally, the nerf must account for the available equipment as well

[sudden path]

We do know what the tier 9 will be though

[unique scaffold]

Some possibility to turn of these so i can play with prems http://screenshots.pixelfederation.com/spt/wotblitz_2021-07-19_17-02-26.png

[hearty steeple]

We do? Only tier 10 stats are released. Technically tier 9 is still unknown

Edit: yeah, well ig the tech tree will sorta probably be close to it in stats. Like Emil 1951

[versed tide]

We know about the premium t9 @hearty steeple

@sudden path the 50 tp prot is a premium 50 tp so it’ll be a premium

[sudden path]

Which is probably gonna be on the tech tree
I doubt the 50tp will have sat this long without getting released unless it goes on the tech tre
Theres no way your gonna tell me a tank that just got its tier x announced and that we've known about for 18 months now is gonna be a premium
They'd have released it by now

[quasi axle]

the 50tp prot is a collector and they specifically said they're not adding it to the tech tree

[sudden path]

Did they say that after they announced 60tp? I thought not

[safe rapids]

There are TWO 50TP tanks. The proto is gonna be premium and the 50TP Twyschewica or however the hell it’s spelled is going to be in the Tech Tree with the 53TP and 45TP at tiers 8 and 7 respectively

[drowsy plaza]

@sudden path testing for tech tree lines is the X and things are scaled. Testing for premiums/collector/enriched is the tank. We tested the 50TP Protoyp last year (testing ended ~23 Dec 2020) It’s not the tech tree 9, I would guess it will be released around the time of the 60TP line coming to the TT, or slightly before to drive interest. It may also come later like the Emil 1951

[grave token]

China tank destroyers need balance. Nobody plays this tanks.

[zenith jungle]

Hey Maus ram damage needs a nerf its very high it rams hts like ramming a light tank

[full token]

It’s not so much a problem because it’s a slow tank, and turns slow. If it’s at speeds where it can ram for a lot of hp, it’ll need good distance to build up the speed, and you should be able to see that coming and move out of the way or maybe reverse away so the ram does less damage. Ramming in blitz is dependent on the weight (afaik) and not balance. The Maus just is a very heavy tank, so it rams very well compared to other heavies.

[zenith jungle]

but at the gravity mod is a real disaster

[quasi axle]

that's the point of gravity mode
@full token no my point is that's basically what superheavies in gravity are supposed to be doing

[full token]

Oh that one can be, but generally I don’t mind it. Just pay attention to them more often and try to move perpendicular to them if they’re near, so they have to turn and get slowed. Or shoot at them and keep reversing, which would slow them down. High tier heavies get bigger guns which can do a lot to slow down a Maus.

@quasi axle Gravity mode isn’t about just ramming everyone. Not called Ramming Mode

[zenith jungle]

I see but maus vs vk45.02 b which and that is a heavy tank too when the vk got rammed its like ramming a light tank . I don't know what to say but at my opinion i think it needs a little nerf

[plush perch]

it does not need a nerf.

if he caught u it is a u problem

[spare notch]

its because the Maus weighs 188 tonnes

188 tonnes is equivalent to a plane I think but in gravity mode mass should be there so

[twin egret]

I wonder why no one plays them

[charred beacon]

Just me or should the tier 9 and 10 yoh go 40kph

[shut pulsar]

Sorry, it’s just you

[golden turret]

Whoops wrong message

[plush perch]

do something to make fv4005 different than 50b, atm it is just a worse 50b

[full token]

It is different. It has 460 alpha instead of 400, and can make use of a consumable to do all the damage in less time than a 50B.

[nimble zodiac]

Yup, I think a clip of 1380 is dangerous to literally any non-Maus or E100, since it two clips all with normal RNG, unless a few of them use improved assembly

It's a high skill ceiling tank that need great positioning and marksmanship, if it catches you exposed and unable to get to cover quickly, you lose 40-70% of your HP, depending on the tank

[stray verge]

4005 is a tank that is high risk high reward tank but the risk outweighs the reward

50 B does not have to go through that much trouble while the 4005 has less hp, worse armor despite having spall liner, and worse handling for gimmicky consumables and 180 more on the clip. The consumables and spall liner is the difference between a pretty bad tank from a more gimmicky and fragile 50 B

[quasi axle]

My main problems with the 4005 are the size and the fact the turret isn't fully traversable which aren't really solvable unless you replace the t10 with an entirely different tank

[nimble zodiac]

I think it's hilarious how they have the exact same reload and interclip (ignoring the consumable), so that 180 clip advantage proves to be a 439 DPM advantage, while having better camo than can be used, a generally higher speed with the better p/w ratio, and the option to use the enhanced engine boost consumable. And it also gets the excuse to be far from the fight, sniping instead.

Oh and for CS simps, their prammo is most definitely enough to cut through every tank. I'm using vents
(Edit: Rusty mental math)

[charred beacon]

#Make4005be500alpha

[safe rapids]

n o

[nimble zodiac]

Ah yes, increase the highest clip potential in the game by another 120

[quasi axle]

o7

[gleaming apex]

Bey#0022 has been warned.

[drowsy plaza]

@charred beacon done and more

[nimble zodiac]

Me, who loads it up with 30/30/30 because it'll never practically burn through any of the shell types

Seriously, I'd rather have more shots in the clip than all these dang shells

@uneven narwhal it can only fire 54 in one game ._.
And that's with constant clip boost, so even less

[uneven narwhal]

It can barely shoot 60 shells before the game ends lol why the heck does it have 90 shells

[winged barn]

t34 3 vs type 59 noises

[shrewd ocean]

WG if you see this the Amx 30b is a very underwhelming tank it lacks the good to make it desirable or even competitive maybe dpm,accuracy, hatch and a little more pen would go a long way.thnx

[charred beacon]

Uh we dont need blitz version of the og broken WTF E100

[nimble zodiac]

= )

[real bison]

iirc the AMX 30B was changed multiple times in testing to make sure it was balanced and didn’t powercreep the Leopard 1 and STB

[stone ocean]

Nerf Annihilator

[livid carbon]

Nerf anni

[golden turret]

The AMX 30 B is a very good tank. The primary strength is it’s ridiculous mobility. You can easily chase some light tanks down. The gun stats are the same as every other tier X medium just with better aim time. If they removed the hatch, it’d essentially be a French STB-1 with gun depression. So if you think the AMX 30 B is underwhelming, then it sounds like a you problem.

[quasi axle]

no the gun is worse than every other tier 10 med

[foggy topaz]

It’s still workable though lol. I average about the same in my 30b that I do in my STB, when you get the playstyle down, the only let-down is the dpm, not the accuracy.

[misty herald]

If u guys give players that never spent money on your game pls give them 10000 gold or 20k golds

[leaden flare]

Why would they do that 😂 there is no point in doing so

[unique scaffold]

And today on “Ideas From People who Have Never ran a Business!” we have….

[sharp saddle]

He says this after we just come out of blitz birthday where a bunch of free stuff was given out/up to earn

[hearty steeple]

Well technically wg does give us free 18250 gold every year. You just have to watch ads 5 times a day.

[charred beacon]

We can get more than that, I dont have a daily and limit

[primal mountain]

I actually think WG could buff the Yoh's dual-shot guns' reload a bit. Not too much, but the current DPM of the dual-shot gun is just too low. https://blitzanalysiz.com/update/8.0/tanks/10/all/22817/#relative-wr-vs-player-skill-level

[golden turret]

Do you have any idea how annoying a Yoh is to deal with? Not only does it have an insanely difficult armor layout to shoot at, it also does 900 average with its shotgun. I don’t think they need to buff it.

[primal mountain]

I admit that the armor is troll. But based on stats it the tanks still under-performs. Not massively, but a bit. This is not a matter of opinion, but data.
The 3-shot gun has actually very good DPM, but the dual-shot gun has way too low DPM and it does not survive in the end game.
Many players are running the high-DPM gun (that could be even nerfed with a longer clip-reload).
I am not asking a major change. Maybe 1 sec off (dual-shot) and 1 sec more (3-shot). Why? because the dual-shot gun is more unique and the tank is kind of pointless without it being useful.

[prisma jetty]

It’s under preforming compared to heavy tanks, which are over preforming, meaning that it is also over preforming. It does not need a buff.

[hearty steeple]

^ this and also I'll be honest I am a bit surprised with the performance. Based on how I have been performing in it so far, I was expecting it to peak the graphs.

[primal mountain]

@prisma jetty it's actually (slightly) below average also among all the vehicle classes (https://blitzanalysiz.com/update/8.0/tanks/10/#lowest-relative-wr). But I do agree that there are other tanks in more desperate need for buffs. For me it just the imbalance between the dual-shot and 3-shot guns.

[proven ocean]

Sheridan missile’s birthdays need a change. (Surprised how it’s been off-radar for so long)

[uneven narwhal]

The DPM for the 2-shot really is not relevant because it is not a DPM machine
It is meant to peek out, put 900 in under 2s, before the enemy even has time to react and then get out
What the Yoh needs is a nerf, not a buff

[prisma jetty]

Honestly, I’m glad a tier 10 heavy is underperforming. It should stay that way, at least it’s not over cooked. Nothing needs changed about tier 10 except a few heavy nerfs. There are no buffs needed whatsoever.

[remote oriole]

I don’t even feel remotely sorry for this tank, the double shot is a horrible concept especially when combined with armour and absolutely no fun to go against. 900 hp is nothing I can just randomly throw away and I don’t see it as a justified amount of damage for any somewhat armoured tank in such a short amount of time

[winged barn]

So...
Are we really complaining that 3k dpm is bad?
Hol up

Among t10 heavies, the yoh 900 damage slam dpm is above 9 of them

And how in the hell is a tank idiotproofed to the extent (armor, gun depression, alpha, untrackable) still underperforming?
Are all the idiots using the peashooter bringing the stats down?

[primal mountain]

@uneven narwhal you are basing you judgement on gut-feeling, not facts. Yes, the Yoh can do that, but it does not translate to wins. You cannot say a tank is "OP because it does X" if it still loses more than other tanks in average (for the same players). Leo 1 is super fast, but it loses a lot. DS has the biggest alpha, but it loses even more, etc.
@prisma jetty Well FV215b needs a small buff. DS and the Chinese TD too. In overall, tier X is well balanced tier.
But I really mean a smaller adjustment than a real "BUFF/NERF"

[uneven narwhal]

The M-VI-Yoh is far from under-performing, it has the highest average damage out of any Tier X heavy according to 30d BlitzStars Player stats along with the best WR (aside from AMX mle M4 54 and 60TP, you can't really count both of them since 60TP is in test and AMX has like 700 players playing it)
Agreed, the DPM of the 120mm is on the low side for T10 heavies, but it's a slapper, not a DPM machine

You can ask new players to the Yoh, all describe it as extremely strong

Bruh it has the highest WR..... go check on BlitzStars
There is a reason why you need 3k avg dmg to get Unicum stat on the Yoh, it's simply too good

If you want, we can have a discussion in #vehicles-discussion or #general-blitz-discussion @primal mountain

[prisma jetty]

215B I could see, but the other 2… just no. DS does not need a buff, nor does the Chinese TD. If you could buff those 2, what would you even buff? There’s nothing about them that could be buffed that wouldn’t make them over cooked.

[primal mountain]

@uneven narwhal Tank average damage or average WR are wrong measures to balance tanks. Average damage is very dependent of the tank player base and the Yoh have been driven by better-than-average players since it is a new tank line.
BTW. BlitzAnalysiz tracks 3-5x players vs. BlitzStars.
Please read https://blitzanalysiz.com/blog/2020-06-08_measuring_tank_performance/
@prisma jetty well, the tier X Chinese TD clearly under-performs. I do not mean to "over-cook" it, but a slight traverse-rate buff would be welcome.

[uneven narwhal]

Even if we cast tank performance stats aside, it does not change the fact that it is a very strong heavy tank
Ability to put 900 alpha in someone in under 2s, along with having a good hull and good turret
Combine that with 10 degrees of gun depression and you get a tank that can do 183 levels of damage while staying safe hulldown
Although it has the cupolas on top, you're barely gonna have a chance to hit em if the tank keeps moving back and forth
Even if you do hit them, the Yoh is still going to be out-trading you, coming back in 20s to do the same

[fallow raptor]

Nah, i love my 30b,and I think that I'm good whit it, but onestly, it needs almost 0.5 reload time buff, because the gun isn't that perfect in other aspects

[primal mountain]

@uneven narwhal so the Yoh is a "very good heavy tank that loses more than an average tank"? LOL. You need to put your emotions aside and look the facts.

[unique scaffold]

How to go bankrupt 101

[remote oriole]

Purely balancing tanks based on stats isn’t the way to go. The game needs to be enjoyable on the battlefield, and good looking statistics don’t necessarily achieve that

[uneven narwhal]

How is it emotions if I've literally stated facts as to why the Yoh is a strong tank

And ironically, in the photo that you have sent, the Yoh avg WR is 53,7% and avg HT WR is 51%

I really don't get how you send a photo showing how the Yoh is statistically better even in ur way of describing stats and then proceed to call it "loses more than avg" .__ .

[unique scaffold]

30B is one of the most closest replica of a Leo 1 based on performance, but 30B’s a downgraded version of it in terms of its Gun. 7.5 sec reload with CS, and big difference on Gun Dispersion. Even tho It bounces shell’s more often, the Cupola is a shell magnet.

[winged barn]

So it gains some things over the leo, and loses some things as payment. This is called balancing.
Balancing is good.

[drowsy plaza]

3k dmg in the Yoh doesn’t get Unicum

I know I suck and should be doing better. But frankly the tank with the 120mm is a toxic terror. The 900 in 1.7 is not beneficial to game play IMHO.

(Played 90 of the 100 games with the 120mm). All solo

I put it more in the TD category due to the reload, it’s more team dependent due to that fact.

[uneven narwhal]

Agreed, this is what makes the Yoh so strong, ability to put in almost 1k HP of damage before the enemy even has a chance to react

Also, nice WR

[drowsy plaza]

If you buff the reload, it ends up being more OP. Right now I think it honestly is well balanced

[unique scaffold]

People actually asking for a yoh buff 🤦‍♂️

[stray dome]

Napim

[drowsy plaza]

I can’t agree to ANY heavy tank buff in X at this point.

As much as I value @primal mountain ‘s work, the fact remains that type matching in MM has hidden how ridiculous Heavy tanks are in tiers 8-10, probably tiers 5-10.

[leaden flare]

its just a pain to win in yoh im at something like 3,2k which isnt very high for yoh but still far below 60% Wr while not playing for dmg but actually trying to use the gun effectively

[primal mountain]

@uneven narwhal the playerbases of different tanks are different. As a new tank, the Tier X Yoh has been played by better than average players that explains its “better average damage”. You cannot use average WR/damage/whatever for balancing without taking into account the differences in the player bases. I think you should read the blog article since I think you are not getting the Relative WR right. @drowsy plaza Excellent point about the vehicle class-matching in MM! I fully agree that heavies are stronger than the other classes.

[uneven narwhal]

Yes and just because a tank can't be played good by bad players, does not mean it needs a buff
Can you imagine what kind of power the good players will have once it gets buffed?

[prisma jetty]

Nah, it'll be fine, buff the Yoh.~~ I want to see just how much havoc I can wreak before it gets nerfed back to it's original state~~

[stiff edge]

215b speed buff when
:(

[coarse harness]

I have 3.8K avg with the M-6
Meanwhile I can barely reach 3.5K with the other T10s

[charred beacon]

I agree, but also say the yoh should at least gi 35kph

[split cliff]

I think wg need to fix the hitbox

[twin egret]

38km top speed?

[versed tide]

Prog only having 1800 w8 with 3k avg (some days not career)

[primal mountain]

@charred beacon LOL. I took it as disagree 😂

[full token]

The yoh could be underperforming on stats, but like the 183, the 120 is broken with the 900 in 1.7s. If it’s getting any clip reload buff, that intraclip needs to be increased. Most people can’t react in time to avoid the second shot, and the tank doesn’t lose much for the 120mm’s abilities

[stiff edge]

yies
would be mega pog
if 38kmh, it become 46kmh with mega speed
op

[twin egret]

Super conqueror goes 36km, ig its fair

[sharp saddle]

It does, but SC does have worse power to weight and hull traverse than both the FV215b and Chieftain Mk.6, making it the most sluggish to get up to speed out of the three

[twin egret]

FV215b has the struggles of being a rear turreted tank though, and lack of armour

[sharp saddle]

Well yes, the FV215b has certain drawbacks that make it awkward to drive sometimes and is one of the harder tanks at tier ten to do well in. Of course I am biased, I adore the tank anyway and have driven it extensively.

Super Conq is much more comfortable and easier to play, thanks to those ten degrees of gun depression, not rear mounted etc. Definitely a nice tank, but for me I’d rather not give up some mobility and have a worse gun as a trade-off for the spaced armour and the benefits I described above. My opinion and personal preferences of course, for everyone it will differ.

[quasi axle]

chieftain > all

[stuck acorn]

This is basically what i meant. For now WG doesn't plan to change size of the maps and main purpose of this rework (except making difference between LT and MT) was to adjust view range of tanks to size of the maps and role of the tank on battlefield. Also creating ability for medium/light tanks to use their view range and camo rating to outspot Heavies. This would make new tactic possibilities which would make the game more interesting. Glass Tds would actually be able to stay at the back and not get spoted by random heavy from 250m after shooting. Which would give more meaning to knowledge of possible tank destroyer postions as it would be harder to spot them and they wouldn't have to play as a slower lights with better gun anymore.

Actuall view ranges of the tanks are too big for current size of the maps which completly ruins sense of having good camo rating or spotting.

[stuck acorn]

This thing about light tanks actually makes sense. Along with those changes i talked about above there should be change in light tanks matchmaking so both teams will get same amount of light tanks (preferably 1-2 per team)

[drifting depot]

wth, why does the bat chat's ammo cost so much, 1200 for the apcr and 4000 for the heat... it's not even balanced up by the he's 680 because the he itself is so bad that you're barely ever gonna use it , can't enjoy the darn tank if I'm constantly loosing 30-40k a game regardless of it being a win or a loose with good-decent damage

[stray verge]

Or just don’t pay for ammo, ez

[drifting depot]

being horribly unfunny while also contributing absolutely nothing to both the conversation and the point someone is trying to make in this channel while also pinging that someone, this is a true #tank-balance-discussion moment.

[leaden flare]

It's T10 1,2k isnt too bad imo
I don't have to many problems not loosing creds in cent 7/1 even with the hesh spam I have prem ACC tho

[drifting depot]

so do I BUT 1200 is TOO bad for a tier 10 light tank with a 105mm gun, take the multiple factors into account not just the cost. 310/260 alpha damage, 1200/4000 cost per shot, accuracy is fine in the gun but we're assuming most BC players manage to hit every shot per magazine, credit coefficients in tier 10 already being rather disappointing and disencouraging, the coefficient from the bc itself and the fact that not many tank's shells cost THAT much while having more penetration, alpha damage and seemingly better credit/game ratio for many more reasons, take the amx 50 B for example, repair costs are a little above average as it's the trend with French tanks but the shells, AP costs 1060 for 400 alpha damage and although the he is nearly 900 damage that one is actually useful and makes up for the high cost with an ACTUAL chance of penetrating, high chance of module damage (like all he shells) and 515 alpha damage

edit: forgot to mention most t10 premium shells stay at or around 4000 with only clear exceptions like the 183 in terms of cost which should also be changed imo, specially for 100-105mm guns at tier 10 with all the factors already mentioned, penetration too....

[leaden flare]

I mean I'm way past the point where I care about credits tbh I'm running ranked and prem tanks there
10mio credits once again but I guess for someone relatively new that could be annoying

[nimble zodiac]

Wait what tank has a damage jump of FIVE HUNDRED between shells again?

[winged barn]

A lot of 122 HE

[drifting depot]

that tank is the 50 b, remember I mentioned AP/APCR/HE alpha damage...
and yeah I mean, of course you wouldn't care about credits but it's not just the newer players that get annoyed for loosing credits, most people that don't already have ALL or nearly all tanks in the tech trees which are very likely also grinding from time to time while also trying to enjoy certain tanks (like in my situation which is when I noticed about this honestly BS ammo cost on the bc 25 t) get annoyed when loosing credits, specially when they do fine but loose 30-40 sometimes 50k credits depending on how many shots were made, take as an example one of my games in the bc 25 t earlier where I lost 44k credits, did 3300+ damage and only fired 3 heat shells... that just shouldn't happen wether it's a loss or a win, of course if it's a loss it would be fine something like a 20-30 loss with roughly 2k damage but 44k with 3300+? (yeah forgot to mention I lost) a little too much when it's not a 183 game if you ask me..

oh chicken man, being honest I absolutely despise you for multiple reasons which don't need to be disclosed but at least I should properly answer to that one, by 900 I meant cost not damage

on response to the "ping" btw, it's not your "picky" opinions as that is just most people in this channel, you probably don't recognize me but I repeat, none of this needs to even be disclosed. I don't spend enough time in this particular server anyway so your presence is no more than a minor annoyance

[nimble zodiac]

Nah that's a damage of 500, not a damage jump of 500

They mentioned an AP shell having 400 alpha, then mention the HE having nearly having 900?

Either a fire was lit or an ammo rack detonated, because I know of no shell in the game that's ran like 400/?/~900

@drifting depot I understand how my hot takes and picky fact-checks which I can mistake myself can be annoying =)

[leaden flare]

I don't have all tanks and neither do I grind a lot the game itself got fairly boring for me since comp scene is touch only so I have no incentive to play tours literally the only thing I can do is tryhard which also hurts my mental health so overall the game doesn't offer me much anymore

Quite a few of my clanmates only come back for crates so they can gamble

@nimble zodiac shell cost was 900

[gleaming apex]

Warning logged for get_spookd#6996. I couldn't DM them.

[drowsy plaza]

Please stick to balance issues here. You can discuss other blitz issues in other channels

[leaden flare]

Well I went off a bit but the shell cost is somewhat balance related tbh

[drifting depot]

and that's exactly why I don't spend much time in this server. anyway, my opinion in regards to balance with credit coefficient and credit/game ratio have been displayed, only thing I have to add about it is that the bc 25t in particular (imo) didn't need some of the buffs it got, but instead a couple of more reliability related issues than "balance" not entirely sure if it can be called balanced when it's just straight up underperforming in that regard, I'm talking about the HE shells being as bad as they are, specially when compared to nearly everything else + the many other factors that come into play when referring to shell damage... so that's it, g'bye for another couple of months and stay as unfunny/uncontributing as always dear #tank-balance-discussion connoisseurs

[nimble zodiac]

We're uncontributing by default, since WG doesn't really take their ideas from here

I mean who said buff Black Prince? Nerf LTTB?

[unique scaffold]

There is a whole lot more to it than what you see. Keep that in mind.

[nimble zodiac]

I do believe even the tiniest bits of this channel are considered, but still.

Maybe next they'll tone down the armor and accept some more mobility

@winged barn YES, IT'S THE WORST TIER 7 HEAVY =>

[winged barn]

Maybe they will buff the t29 lower plate next

[stuck acorn]

biggest damage jump is on jgpz E100 which has 800 ap and 1200 HE

[drowsy plaza]

And that 85mm of HE pen on the JPE is useless for everything but splash damage 99% of the time.

[little ruin]

Buff annihilator

[nimble zodiac]

Honestly talking about tier 1-7 balance is futile. They've destroyed the lower tiers, tier 8 is starting to gasp for air, and tier 9 will forever be shadowed by tier 10

[twin egret]

Many medium tanks have 80mm sides tho

[nimble zodiac]

=(

[quasi axle]

Presses 2

[mystic gorge]

the KpfPz 70 has very low HE damage for a 152mm at only 640 wich is usually the standard ammunition damage so i was thinking it should be more like 780 like on the T49

[prisma jetty]

Sure

[drowsy plaza]

@mystic gorge but unlike the T49 it also has APCR at a decent pen and a high pen HEAT Prammo. The T49 doesn’t have those and has HE as Prammo. Which is the balancing factor.

[mystic gorge]

i guess but could atleast be like 680 as its HE like im pretty sure the sheridain has as its historically the same gun

[drowsy plaza]

680 would be reasonable as the Sheridan which technically shares the gun has 680 HE (although the Sheridan has better DPM and less APCR pen)

[quasi axle]

I think the sheridan could get a buff somehow and still be balanced, after it got its missiles removed it's eh, it's not bad but they removed one of the main draws of the tank

[drowsy plaza]

You mean exploits…

Frankly they should probably give the Sheridan it’s APCR pen back to at least 240 without CS, the same as the KpfPz-70, then bump the 70’s HE alpha to 680 as well.

[mystic gorge]

also id say buff the sheridains dpm by like 300 (lower reload a bit) as its very bad at actually fighting anything

[safe rapids]

Isn’t that the point of a light tank? Their job is to spot, annoy, and harass. Want to deal damage and actually fight? Play a medium or heavy.

[quasi axle]

vickers moment
@drowsy plaza exploits meaning bugs or you're saying missiles are broken? For the first idk I didn't play that much when missiles were around but yes they were a bit broken, but if you remove missiles that's a pretty big nerf to the sheri
I think 240mm+ on standard would be good enough of a buff tbh

[jagged crescent]

prob exploits as in unfair advantages

[mystic gorge]

also i was kinda thinking maybe give all tanks that historically had missles, missles ingame

[stiff edge]

no

[twin egret]

Have machine guns be usable

[burnt venture]

Biggest problem with the current game: matches often last 2-3 minutes, ending in a complete steamroll where virtually no player feels rewarded for their skill or their efforts. Cause of the problem is due to a combination of deterioration of player skill, acceleration of the grind process (XP and credit boosters + certificates), and flawed MM characteristics.

How to fix MM without doing skill-based mm:

Fix #1: Have matchmaker treat light tanks the SAME as medium tanks, instead of differently. Currently we have light tank +1-1 AND medium tank +1-1, which results in lopsided AF games where say, enemy has 2 meds and 1 light, ur team has 1 med, or enemy has 2, one light one med, and ur team has no meds. Depending on the map this creates a HUGE imbalance between the teams where one team has the mobility to flank and do damage in a crossfire while the other team doesn't. Lights play a similar role to meds, so having them as a separate consideration just causes imbalance within the game.
Have MM consider lights and meds as the same class and do a blanket +1 -1 matchmaking for tank types (this actually lessens queue time for lights and meds)

Fix #2: Have role deviations for TDs and heavies. As we all know, TDs are split into glass cannon / support TDs (Grille 15, 183, Ho Ri type tanks) and medium tank assault / heavy tank type TDs (268, Foch 155, 263, E3, E4, Jageroo) which make ZERO sense to be matched against each other. Again, depending on the map, it might be highly advantageous to have an E3, while tanks like the 183 and Grille are almost always a hinderance to your team unless it's a camper map. Same with heavy tanks, split those into superheavies / frontline heavy tanks (Kran, E100, Maus, E5, IS-4, YOH) and support / heaviums (Chieftain Mk.6, 260, 5A, IS-7, 50B, T57). Same concept here, it's simply unfair to have a team full of French heavies vs actual heavy tanks. Of course, not advocating for TDs to have the SAME HP as heavies, but just an extra 200-300 or so would help massively)
Have MM reconsider heavies and TDs, split them into two different groups so matches are more even

Fix #3: HP balancing for TDs depending on role. With the aforementioned fix #2, TDs will now have a much better time playing frontline against other frontline TDs or sniping against other sniper TDs. However, there remains a gigantic HP pool difference between heavies and TDs which must be bridged accordingly. Support and sniper TDs can remain at their current HP, but TDs that roleplay heavy tanks need a similar buff to HP to make them competitive against heavy tanks again. Tanks like E4, E3, Jageroo do not deserve to have medium tank HP against heavies that have almost 1000 more HP.
Buff frontline tank destroyer HP accordingly and lessen HP difference between superheavy TDs and superheavies (literally the most lazy fix WG can do to prevent steamrolls right now)

@abstract marsh @lusty silo @solar sorrel

[misty herald]

Make emil heavy and more armored on hull and give it BIG engine

[warped pasture]

Exactly. If the wargaming staff doesn't listen to this near-perfect statement about how to fix their damn game from a very good player who knows almost everything there is to know about the game, then they actually show that they don't want to fix the game or make it more playable.

[twin egret]

This is #tank-balance-discussion , not #matchnaking-discussion.

Pinging Wargaming staff is not appropriate in these situations

[burnt venture]

thank you for your non-contribution to the discussion of balance that includes matchmaking

[toxic nymph]

let's see how many pitchforks this brings

[drowsy plaza]

@burnt venture simply drop type matching from MM. That creates a disaster at first yes - but will lead to better balance between the types and non META game plays that benefit better players.

[hollow basin]

If they do drop, at least the match maker should make sure both teams have a Similar number of tanks types.

Otherwise, you might end up with a Full Heavy team against just meds or LTs.

@mystic gorge it will average everyone at 50%.

Also, @drowsy plaza real nice lack of cool down on your side.

[gleaming apex]

Dwight#0609 has been warned.

[drowsy plaza]

@hollow basin Hence my comment about non meta plays when that happens.

[mystic gorge]

What’s the issue with matching people based on WR?

[drowsy plaza]

Because it doesn’t work.

[burnt venture]

I think type matching is a good thing because it ensures that teams are not completely lopsided, and depending on the map it can be 100% biased towards a certain team with more of a certain tank type. But it cannot be too specific, where in this case it is basically creating situations where teams are mismatched due to a system installed to prevent mismatching

This won't cut down on the randomness of teams dude. There are over 400 tanks in the game, variety is definitely NOT a worry here.

[drowsy plaza]

I will entertain this briefly - but skill based MM is effectively impossible in Blitz. Look at ratings. Unless it’s tank (maybe tier) specific. It won’t work.

Besides part of the draw of Blitz is the entire randomness of teams. That was for @mystic gorge

[uneven narwhal]

I believe SBMM will just lead to longer queue times?
Because then the matchmaker has to consider evening out the skill as well as matching tank types?

[drowsy plaza]

@burnt venture I think the Chaos of no matching would force people into thinking about what tank they will play. Plus type matching leads to a fairly stale meta.

[hollow basin]

"Besides part of the draw of Blitz is the entire randomness of teams"

That should not be a draw of Blitz what so ever.

People come to WoTB for a smaller version of WoT, that does not have a lot of the problems of WoT PC and can also be played on the go.

Teams are something we expect from a Multiplayer game, but not lopsided teams that end in 2 minutes where only 1 person in the losing team does the majority of the total DMG.

Also, mister Crusader, I'd like to ask about a decrease is the horrible cooldown of this server, or that at least the Mods also follow the cooldowns when discussing with other people.

[drowsy plaza]

Two different discussions going on here. One SBMM the other altering Type Matching In MM. I don’t think SBMM will work in Blitz. It can work in other games because the choices are fairly restricted. Just looking at ratings - you have players in Diamond who just spam the Annihilator and they are 1k avg dmg players in tier X, so imaging you draw that muppet on your team and red gets someone like @burnt venture - same rating / but totally different caliber of player. Even if you try a tier based SBMM, you are suffering some some players who are 65% 3k avg in some tier X and only 55% 2.5k average players in others.

@hollow basin sorry cooldown has been set by WG. Mods have zero requirements to follow the cooldown - as we don’t have one.

[nimble zodiac]

Why SBMM when shooty shooty bad players? Right?

[mystic gorge]

Basically forces you to talk via editing a message

[burnt venture]

I am being used as an example by a WG mod. What has my life become.

Lmao I was just kidding if you wanna use me as an example go ahead

[warped pasture]

They focus on keeping people doing the right thing and enforcing weird rules instead of putting that energy into improving the game. Honestly...

[drowsy plaza]

Now as to type matching. I agree that @burnt venture proposal is the best option given the constraints of a type matching. My humble opinion is that type matching let’s WG cover up the horrible balance between types - hence the current heavy meta we have now. (I used you simply because your the best player online here now and a good example of how SBMM won’t work without a ton of other constraints - and at the end of the day I’m selfish, I don’t want SBMM as I want to farm reds not fight a Unicum on red every game.

[toxic nymph]

the mods have no say into improving the game, they're just volunteer community members

[gleaming apex]

Dwight#0609 was muted

[hollow basin]

At least now these two statements make sense:

"simply drop type matching from MM. That creates a disaster at first yes - but will lead to better balance between the types and non META game plays that benefit better players."

"...as I want to farm Reds, not fight a Unicum on red every game"

You want MM to be even more wacky and random so that you have easy games, while the other people arguing with you want fair matches, where we fight and win fairly.

As you said, you're selfish, and now I truly believe that as a fact.

I never said I want SBMM, what I don't want is to see matches that end with 3 0 dmg tank, with my angry because I was the only one that tried to do something.

I'll never be a player that can Carry like Synx, but I try my best to support my team, problem is, I can't support a team that dies doing barely anything.

@drowsy plaza

Also, such an idiotic idea "either do something you can't do, or leave WoTB", I can't Carry 10 matches in a row, I never set out to do that, I set out have a "fun" Mobile game, not be a professional player like Synx.

[drowsy plaza]

The only fair fight is the fight you win. For 7+ years we haven’t had SBMM it’s not happening. You want a better team? Get better and carry your team.

My point on Type Matching is the current in its state it doesn’t do a good job and there are light/med imbalances a lot especially in 9/10.

So either fix it or dump it.

@hollow basin dragging MM complaints about teams here will just get you a week mute - please see pinned messages.

[hollow basin]

Yes, I know it.

But I can't tell you what makes me angry without exemplifying it, can I?

It's like asking "what ice cream flavor you like?" And not expecting an answer or something.

[uneven narwhal]

Just like you have set out to have a "fun" mobile game, so have the players on ur team that do 0 damage
None of them actually wanna play good
Sometimes they end up at 0 damage and ruin one game out of your career out of thousands
Just ignore it and move on man

[drowsy plaza]

@hollow basin see DM

[primal mountain]

I also vote for if not removing, then greatly relaxing the vehicle class matching in MM. Why? Because mirrored teams create boring, repetitive games. Having more variety in the team line-ups makes the game more interesting. Steamrolls / lopsided teams were quoted as a reason for the vehicle class matching and did those disappear? No, not at all.

The proposal to combine MTs and LTs into one class is a good start, but I would go as far as removing all the vehicle class matching rules except the limit for max number of TDs. And I would put that limit as high as 4 for starters.

It would be havoc for starters, but people would adapt as they did for 5 years before the vehicle class matching was introduced.

This change would have to be combined with WG actually fixing the vehicle balance and curb the current heavy-meta. Yes, tanks with very high skill-floor (e.g. LTs) are really hard to balance, but WG could still do much better.

Finally, WG should not try to "fix MM" with (poor) tank balance, but keep those two things separate. For MM there is not easy solution since Blitz is not that popular game and the players are dispersed over many tiers.

[leaden flare]

Why would you want even more TDs they are the biggest pain in the ass that makes just slow and makes everyone just sit around because they will hit you and they will pen you and most importantly they will take a good chunk of your HP

[primal mountain]

If the number of TDs really a created a problem by making the meta too campy, the limit for TDs could be dropped to 3. Also, there could be a rule to limit the number of same tanks to 2, at least for some tanks (DS).

[uneven narwhal]

TD limit is already at 3 and 3 TDs just lead to boring campy gameplay because no one wants to get slapped by unspotted big guns
It would help it it was dropped to 2 tho

[primal mountain]

@uneven narwhal I don't think the game is too campy at the moment. I admit 4 TDs per team would longer term make the game too campy, but I do not mind occasionally having 4 TDs. TDs are very popular vehicle class since players can bush-camp and "get big damage". I would limit the number of Deathstars though to two per side. Outside TDs the class limits should be removed completely.

[thin ermine]

I remember back in the day before vehicle class matching. It was not fun having 5 TDs per side during 2015 TD meta.

I also remember when my team got 7 mediums vs 3 heavys and 2 tds on himmelsdorf. 🐀
This was not a fun experience

[primal mountain]

I have very opposite memories of beating "optimal team setup" with 5 TDs. It required the team to play to their strengths, but that what the game should be. About skill and challenges.

The meds vs. heavy issue is more a balance issue. Heavies are just over-powered at the moment and if you read my message above, I linked the MM change to the re-balancing of the tank classes (nerf heavies, buff meds & lights).

[remote oriole]

If you really wish to prevent steamrolling then you have to give every player the ability to survive in any tank against the full enemy force for a considerable amount of time. Or, to put it bluntly, if every tank can take on the entire enemy team and survive for at least ten seconds then we won’t have steamrolls simply because the enemy will take too long trying to chew through a single tank to steamroll anything.

To be fair you don’t have to be as drastic but the reason why steamrolls seem to happen more now is because we have severe alpha damage/ clip potential damage power creep, because we have considerable penetration power creep and because we have steady dpm power creep. All these factors contribute to people killing other people in short and shorter amounts of time. The heavy hp buff didn’t really help because it’s only really one shot of extra hp and because it’s too local.

So what I identified as the plausible cause for steamrolls is the uneven powercreep; while firepower is heavily affected by powercreep hp and armour often miss out or are too insignificant to really mean anything for the playstyle. The mobility powercreep also only benefits steamrolling.

That being said, I don’t have an issue with steamrolling at the moment. I worry a lot more about the powercreep in general and how it worsens imbalances and completely overhauls the gameplay

[primal mountain]

You are spot on with your "solution" above. There are true balance issues in the game (heavy meta, tier VII Halloween tanks, etc.), but the steamrolls "have been coming more frequent" for 7 years by now. As long as I have been on the forums (since 2014) people have been complaining about those. It is true that average game duration has shortened over the years and increased mobility and burst DPM has contributed to that.

I still claim that the biggest contributor to the steamrolls is huge differences in players skill-levels and related to that, the positions where the teams decide to go. If the team splits and pushes against full-team iron fist, it rarely matters which tanks they have. Most of the time the flankers will arrive the scene too late to have an impact.

Trying to fix players inability to read lineups with tank balancing is simply a wrong thing to do.

[remote oriole]

Yeah, that basically presents the bottom line for steamrolls that one can’t do much about (aside from pushing players out of the game) so it’s just something everyone needs to live with

[sudden path]

I think wg needs to just have better definitions for the tank type mm
Saying a charioteer for example is a med when most charioteer players will camp can lead to extreme med imbalance, which can lose games on certain maps before the game is even played(provided the team with the advantage is fairly agro)

[quasi axle]

im 99% sure charioteer isn't counted as a med for mm purposes

[golden turret]

The whole clip potential power creep thing that’s going on is exactly what’s happening with the Xbox server and WoT PC

[primal mountain]

WoT PC and Xbox have also bigger teams, thus the local-enemy-DPM vs tank-HP-pool ratio is higher even without the burst-DPM guns. Those games are much more campy due to the fact the wrong peak will get one deleted right away. I can image the cry when Yoh are getting introduced there 🙂

[full token]

I’ve seen some gameplay of a Vz 55 on there. Isn’t that just the Yoh? Similar high alpha in 2 shots

[uneven narwhal]

Yeah, 980 alpha in two seconds with good speed and reload as well

[stiff edge]

its a yoh mixed with a obj 277 basically
speed, yoh clip, and good turret

[drowsy plaza]

http://forum.wotblitz.com/index.php?/topic/113027-about-steamrolls/

I would agree with @heavy salmon heavy HP buffs create more steam rolls

[shrewd ocean]

@real bison Well that's good news for me I could save myself $40 n jus stick with my insanely broken Leo1 :)

[bitter fjord]

Is it me or are mediums way harder to play in this meta. I feel like I can’t do anything because I have no hp and if a heavy pushes into a medium position or on the medium flank, I can’t fight it

[winged barn]

Yes

[autumn zodiac]

This meta either forces one to play a light or a heavy. Tank destroyers serve no purpose because heavies effectively offer the roles better. Mediums trade armor and HP and fire power for mobility that hardly matters.

[remote oriole]

I highly question the representativeness of this simulation of the game. If anything, the simulation shows how drastic the effects of luck can be.

His measure for steamrolls is extremely poor as well because he only looks at the tanks remaining instead of the hp, and he also completely ignores the time (or rounds) taken to come to the final result.

In fact, he completely makes the wrong conclusions and suggest something that would only benefit steamrolls. I in a later post show with his simulation that I reconstructed based on his descriptions how the results suggest a vastly difference course of action once you actually look at more data than just surviving tanks

[unique scaffold]

Ofc it’s logic. If tanks have more HP they are more likely to stay alive and if there’s more tanks on the side of the winning team they’ll win harder.

[full token]

8.2 has interesting balance changes for tier X

[sharp saddle]

After some of the balance changes I’ve seen to tier 7 this update, I wouldn’t be surprised if it is E5 and IS-4 buffs

[quasi axle]

Got specifics?

[full token]

Translated:

• Superforsage will now give 40% to the engine power, +5% to the chassis turning speed, +5 km / h forward. We do not touch the other parameters.
• IS-4 and Kranvagn will lose 150 HP and a few degrees in the speed of rotation of the tower: the Swede has significantly, the Soviet TT has less. Thus, it will be more comfortable for Stshkam to fight against these TT (it will be easier to twist) and it will be easier for Ptshkam to resist them.
• FV215b and T110E5 will shoot less often, and the American will also turn the turret more slowly. This, together with the superforsage nerf, will make these TT less similar in gameplay to ST.
• Maus will remain the fattest in terms of strength, but now it will not be 3000 HP, but 2850 (without equipment). The accuracy of the gun will become a little worse, this will make the tank less effective at a distance, and in order to be more effective on it, you will need to drive closer to enemy tanks.

Nerfs will not greatly affect the comfort of playing on these TT, but their versatility will become less pronounced.
Apas and rebalances:

• The WZ113G-FT (Chinese PT Level X) will have increased armor, slightly improved dynamics and accuracy when turning the body.
• The T110E4 will have improved armor, turret rotation speed and accuracy when turning the turret.
• Ob. 263 we want to make an assault PT. To do this, we will increase her HP, armor and turn speed, but the accuracy will be worse.
• The FV4005 will recharge the entire drum a second faster.
• The maximum speed of the FV4202 will be increased to 60 km / h. In order not to have a huge gap between the 9 and 10 levels in the maximum speed, we are moving from 40 to 50 km/h Centurion 7/1 for this.
• The E50M will slightly improve the cross-country ability on the ground and the recharge time.
• M48 Patton and M60 will shoot faster and punch a little more often.

[outer glen]

Wow no more heavy meta after 8.2 welp i asked for turret buff on cent7 but got speed instead welp i will take that

Since 4202 doesnt have really angled turret well why not its ok since it doesnt have high pen when running with HESH gun but the speed will make it easier to flank hts and tds

And i also doesnt agreee with 215b nerf tho and why nerf the turn speed the tank should be meds hunter

[sharp saddle]

Many balance changes I approve and get behind.
But if I interpreted it correctly, the FV215b is getting a DPM nerf? Unneeded in my opinion

FV4202 speed limit buff is appreciated, but no mention of its power to weight? It is one of the faster accelerating mediums at tier ten, so an outright speed limit buff will be quite significant

[nocturne mauve]

Don’t worry it will still be a heavy meta

[celest marlin]

Man why nerf the 215b

[safe rapids]

Yeah that is odd but glad to see an IS-4 nerf even if it’s not huge.

[lunar niche]

Is that a dpm buff on E50M?

[dusky fable]

its terrain cross ability buff and DPM

[uneven narwhal]

E 50 M most certainly did not need a buff lol
Don't mind it tho .__ .

[outer glen]

#dontnerf215b good say this everyone

[tepid latch]

#dontnerf215b

[lunar niche]

E50M going faster with more dpm, FV4202 going 60 and Patton getting penetration buff/alpha? and dpm.

Can Leopard at least get a meaningful buff other than raw dpm.

[quasi axle]

yes buff leopard 🙏

[stiff edge]

i cri

[fallow eagle]

#dontnerf215b

[toxic cove]

I’ll just post this (stats from 8.0) - find 215b and reasons for its nerf

[remote oriole]

While I live through the pain of my computer running countless calculations using the simulation I may as well start presenting my results:

I retrieved:
-Surviving tanks
-Average HP left on winning tanks
-HP left as percentage of total HP
-Shootout rounds needed to end game

The conditions are:
-14 Tanks, each shoots once per round
-A hit deals 1 hp of damage
-The target of the shot is randomly selected from the surviving members of the enemy team
-Each tank has its unique accuracy identifier which is randomly selected at the start of the match. It determines the chance of the tank hitting when shooting
-If all tanks in a team are destroyed, the match is over

The results are:
-The number of surviving tanks grows with the number of hp per tank and converges towards 7 for high amounts of hp. Around 3 tanks survive on average in matches where all tank have one hp
-The remaining hp per winning tank rise directly proportionally with the hp per tank if the hp per tank is greater than 50.
-If the initial hp per tank are below 50, then the remaining hp per winning tank are the higher relative to the initial hp of the tank the closer one gets to zero
-The relative hp left on the battlefield are around 9-12% for initial hp greater than 50, and average at around 20-22% for one hp
-The number of rounds is directly proportional to the hp per tank with a factor of 1.8, i.e. 1.8 rounds are played per point of hp per tank. This fails for very small numbers such as one

I don't think that I can fit an interpretation of this in here as well so there's more coming

So, since we are looking at those numbers in the context of steamrolls i think it's a good idea to first define steamrolls.

Steamrolls are battles, when one team crushingly defeats the enemy team, as manifested in the number of tanks surviving, remaining hp on the field and battle time. A game only qualifies as a steamroll if
-The winning team loses no more than two tanks
-The winning teams retains at least half its hp
-The winning teams takes less than four minutes to achieve the victory condition

(Note that a cap victory also counts as a steamroll under this definition)

Now, the only thing in this simulation that speaks for reducing the hp is the average number of tanks surviving in the winning team. Everything else speaks against it. If you add more hp the games take longer and until a certain threshold (50 hp in this case) you will also end up with less hp relative to the initial hp.

To be accurate, when you give every tank one hp the winning team will approximately keep half their hp while if you give everyone 50 hp the winning team will only have around a quarter of their hp left.

The reason why more tanks survive is because it's likely that one team simply has the better shooters and less likely that one tank will be focused out (because the targets are selected randomly), so both teams effectively do perfect hp sharing in this simulation and thus it comes down to who eats up the hp of the enemy faster (due to the natural imbalance implemented through the randomisation).

This is why I think that this simulation actually advocates for more hp to prolong battle duration and decrease the impact of RNG on the outcome of the game to prevent steamrolls, be they caused by RNG or just by better players

[stiff edge]

wat

[remote oriole]

Since Positive also mentioned a 'fair' setup where everyone has 50% accuracy I tested that as well. The retrieved data and conditions are the same as previously, with the exception of accuracy not being randomised anymore.

The results:
-The surviving tanks remain relatively stable for all hp at around 2.8 - 3.2
-The remaining hp on the winning team increase marginally
-The relative hp left on the battlefield decrease approximately linearly as initial hp per tank increase
-The number of rounds taken is directly proportional to the hp per tank with a factor of two, i.e. two rounds per hp per tank

So with fair games, the more hp you give to the tank the longer the game takes and the closer and closer the victories get

Tl;Dr:
Positive made a simplistic simulation that was meant to show how steamrolls relate to hp and damage output in the game.

Above you can see the results of me using a self-made knock-off of the simulation to show why I think Positive's conclusion that less hp result in less steamrolls is wrong.

The main reason is because more hp means longer battles and less influence from RNG. Furthermore, I argue that using the number of surviving tanks is a poor indicator for a steamroll.

TL;DR of the TL;DR:
I have nothing better to do, don't judge me

[twin egret]

They're really nerfing FV215b 🤡

[full token]

After all that time you spent asking to buff it 😂

[twin egret]

🤡
Bruh momento
Literally why lol

[prisma jetty]

It's clearly not performing bad enough

[nimble zodiac]

My only issue with FV215b, other than the new DPM nerf coming, is the 254mm side plate that interferes with sidescraping

[full token]

Why not just remove the consumables on the E5 though? They say it could out maneuver mediums with it but they leave that consumable in...

[winged barn]

I like how they stated that the heavies were overpreforming for a year.
Nice.
Why didn't you nerf them a year ago then?

The heavies need the nerfing. It took them waaayyyy too long to implement this.

[unique scaffold]

I disagree with the new balance

[twin egret]

They Literally want to take away one of the good aspects about the FV215b's gun

[nimble zodiac]

Maybe they really did mean every tier 10 will have its glory 😅

Tell me, I'd love to see if AMX M4 mle 54 will have a buff for a while, ooh, or even IS-7

Oh and for the homogenization or whatever, the Pz. V/IV is getting that "40mm" side plate fixed?

[rare sleet]

Fv4202 60kmph yooo letts gooo thats all i care about

[jaunty prairie]

@hazy bear please tell Ribble not to do these nerfs, I dont know which player base is complaining but its most likely the players that suck, these nerfs arent needed

[full token]

Idk who you speak for because their views have been quite rare everywhere compared to the other views from good players

[half galleon]

215b doesnt need a nerf it needs a buff

[sharp saddle]

The only unreasonable nerf is to the FV215b. Everything else is fine

[quasi axle]

anyone should be able to realize heavies dominate the current meta

[simple patio]

maus nerf is unreasonable imo. everything else is fine and I actually support e5 and 215b nerf.

[tepid latch]

agreed. maus wasnt even good before now theyre just making it useless 😦

[leaden flare]

idk where they pulled the FV 215b nerf from but its dumb and 1s on E5 is a lot too

[terse tinsel]

215b getting nerfed aint no way boi

[copper tartan]

yeah bro fv215b needed nerfing. I am tired of all the fv215b spam fv215b just dominates tier ten

[nimble zodiac]

Who wants to ping milanmrlian for his expertise on these changes? :p

[half galleon]

buff 215b in all honesty it needs a buff instead of a nerf

[unique scaffold]

looks like they mistyped 183 as FV215b lol

[primal mountain]

8.2 has promising balance changes!

[ionic dagger]

They should also consider the nerf of the t22 mediun

[drowsy plaza]

I’d take any of these proposals as thin air at the moment. They haven’t even hit open test as far as I know.

[primal mountain]

Well, why would WG communicate something if they are not making it? WG is notoriously silent about its plans upfront. I would put my money on these balance changes coming out roughly inline what was communicated.
I think WG does not want to admit that the super consumables were just a bad idea. At least to super speed-boost. They could have just removed it.

[remote oriole]

Me too. And most of these changes are good, and the rest is while a bit questionable still understandable

[silk folio]

The E5 definitely needed a beating, not so sure about the 215b though. Don't see very many of those still.

[drowsy plaza]

Was that translated from the Ru stream?

I still wish they just flushed the super consumables and went for normal balancing methods.

[winged barn]

Nah, they are just focusing on nerfing superconsumables now.

[drowsy plaza]

I strongly suspect the good idea fairy that came up with them also thought spare parts was a solid plan.

[winged barn]

Both pale in comparison to the timers though.

Especially when they even advertised the game as being free of timers

[unique scaffold]

Hey, I mean, is there a code so I can get some good tanks or gold?

[autumn zodiac]

no

[gleaming apex]

Rudý Tankista cz#5851 has been warned.

[unique scaffold]

every time this game becomes more stressful and not much fun to spend a while

[jagged crescent]

I agree with the improved engine nerf but hopefully the proposed numbers aren’t final as some of the heavy tank proposals I feel are either just going to accentuate the potency of other heavies or just make the nerfed heavies lose their “sense of uniqueness”.

Like the 215b did NOT need a dpm nerf (along with it’s nerfed improved engine boost).

Also why not just propose a universal nerf to a heavy tank’s viewrange?

[safe rapids]

Yeah, no way Kran needed an HP nerf. IS-4 needed a nerf in general so I’m fine with that, but my beloved ikea wagon needs some more mobility if it’s going to have 2350 HP starting from update 8.2. Top speed increased to ~35kph, anyone?

[leaden flare]

The kran Nerf is understandable
The e5 nerf if it's actually 1s is pretty hard making its heavyium role pretty useless and on FV it's straight up over the top cuz it's already low on HP, low Armor, rear turret but not able to sidescrape and turret weakspots it's only purpose was med hunt and hesh

If it's +1s it looses like 600+ DPM that would be insane or am I having flaws in my math

VK 90 will just get the new cw meta cuz it has everything then

[winged barn]

Kran is a strong heavy. When heavies are dominant.
But somehow it doesn't need a nerf?

[jagged crescent]

Lol the 215’s just gonna be a worse chieftain.

Also why is the Yoh not being touched at all?

[safe rapids]

Because it’s actually balanced.

[unique scaffold]

I agree with it, it loses the roles that tanks such as the is4 and the E5 already had, also, the only thing that was Excellently Good in terms of the capabilities of the Fv215b was its Rate of Fire and the Weapon it possesses.

[full token]

annihilator gets 'nerfed' too

[leaden flare]

The problem is they now have prems up there that they can't nerf which could and prob will take positions of tanks that were now nerfed

[safe rapids]

Oh well at least theE4 is being buffed. That’s something I’m looking forward to

[leaden flare]

As long as they don't make it a e3 cupola

[full token]

it seems to just be the turret and hull getting buffed and not the cupola

[twin egret]

Ig its time to remove that #BuffFV4202 in ur name, right?

I c i c

[half galleon]

True lmaoo, honestly tho i think it needs a pen buff in its apcr but idk just might be me

[latent snow]

My E50M was buffed? Nice but why?

[full token]

Meta change

[broken flower]

because yoh is team dependant.
honestly yeah, you have pog burst damage on clip if you pick that bigger one. but if your team falling apart too quickly, there is nothing you can do.

[verbal osprey]

Are devs on crack? Why the hell are they nerfing 215b this much wtfffff

[quasi axle]

wdym this much u dont even know the specifics yet
but i agree 215b shouldn't have gotten nerfed

[real bison]

they only nerfed RoF (affecting DPM) and the speed boost (external nerf) right?

Not sure where they mentioned accuracy, traverse and HE nerfs

FYI the Leopard 1 and FV4202 share the joint best standard pen for MTs

[twin egret]

255mm is fineee, with CS it becomes really high, 267.75mm, which is really high for a medium. Only like 2 other mediums have the same pen

[half galleon]

Really? Idk if its just me then because I struggle to pen the lower plate of an e3 frontally, then again it could just be the ammo type apcr

[twin egret]

Either that or just that e3 is using enhanced (or too armored but nah)

[nimble zodiac]

It is, FV215b, with +4mm of pen with AP too vs Leopard 1, covers two more triangles on the lower plate. And that's close range, where APCR stands strong, though the angle is increased

FV4202 is the same shell so eh, yeah

Bottom line, E3's LFP is stronk, at least mediums wouldn't usually have to frontally engage an E3

[half galleon]

Was talking about the fv4202 lol

[quasi axle]

255mm can struggle to pen E3 lower plate

[ionic dagger]

The maus nerf is unnecessary, the Germans characterize their cannons that are reliable and because increasing the dispersion would be too much, it is fine to reduce their life but touching the cannon would be too much, what do you say?

[stiff edge]

worst gun on a ht getting nerfed
gigabrain

[leaden turtle]

215b is going to be the worst tank at tier 10 now lmao

[nimble zodiac]

Ah yes, definitely below 183?

[delicate solar]

i dont think so
Patton
chinase td
vkk

[stray verge]

Patton and 113g ft both got buffs.
Don’t be one of these guys that thinks vk72=bad tank…

[delicate solar]

its not that baaaaad but good neither

[quasi axle]

imo if you're gonna nerf maus gun (which I don't think is necessary) you should nerf the dpm to emphasize it's a team oriented tank

[prisma jetty]

I think the gun should be nerfed but the HP should stay the same

[toxic cove]

just remove speedboost and extra hp from e5 and only speedboost from 215b and these heavies will be less “universal” ffs, what’s the point of nerfing guns and turret traverse

you guys want its playstyle look less like MTs, but how about trying to play 215b or e5 as MT without speedboost?

[jagged crescent]

215b is def gonna be obsolete

[balmy cypress]

Whips out E 100

Hehea boi

[thin ermine]

215b is going to be the worst heavy tank in tier 10. It’s already bad.

[prisma jetty]

It's already the worst, now it's going to be very, very bad

[toxic cove]

Just imagine devs playing their own game

[primal mountain]

Maus nerf is well-deserved, but the FV215b will need some buffing to become relevant. https://blitzanalysiz.com/update/8.0/tanks/10/heavy-tanks/#the-best-performing-tanks

[balmy cypress]

Maus nerf is alright, but maybe avoid nerfing the accuracy because the Germans are kinda known for the accuracy and the gun is already not the best in its tier

[gleaming apex]

Warning logged for GEO#0327. I couldn't DM them.

[drowsy plaza]

You don’t need APCR on an E3 LFP, just use HESH.

But always better to nail side or rear

[modest shadow]

Most likely lel

[deep shadow]

I really don't think the tier 10 heavy tanks (especially Maus, E5, and Fv) should be nerfed as they will be nerfing their unique characteristics... instead they should ONLY buff the TDs and MTs to make them more unique and comfortable (good) in their specific roles against other tanks of the same class! It adds variety to the game and makes every tank fun to play because they are good with their unique characteristics... in their specific roles compared to other classes and tanks in the same class! I like the buffs to the Tds and Mts! I don't like the nerfs to the Hts! I also don't like the speed boost nerf as it will now make the E5 and Kran have almost the same mobility as the other heavies... not making them as special as before. IT WILL ALSO NERF THE E3 BADLY... WHICH I JUST GOT (the E3 is a good tank now.. I don't want it to nerf as it will become average and not that unique anymore)!!!!! 🙂

[marsh sleet]

E5's turret is already relatively slow. I dont't see the reason why it should be slower😅 .

[dapper osprey]

If you nerf the e5 it will be completely irrelevant in comp, the entire purpose of that tank is to do damage. If you nerf it to 2300 damage it basically ruins the tank because there is quite literally no tier 10 with 400 base alpha that has a 10 second reload for a single shot gun, the e5 armor is only good hull down and taking away its dpm severely limits its flexibility on the field. There is quite literally no point to use the E5 or 215b hull down anymore if you butcher their dpm because as I said before it is the only thing the tanks has going for it

[marsh sleet]

Still E5's dpm will also be nerfed right

[dapper osprey]

8.5 seconds to 10.1

[marsh sleet]

Sadge 😦

[sharp laurel]

honestly thats practically too much... a speed boost removal would've been just fine
RIP E5

[remote oriole]

I’m very happy with that tank being pushed away from medium parameters. It never deserved to play remotely like a medium and I’m glad WG is doing something about it

[proven goblet]

I feel that nerf of hts is non fair

[wicked quest]

Ah yes unfair

[thick rover]

Buff 5aa plz

[outer glen]

Rip 215b got speed boost nerf turn rate nerf and dpm nerf wth is this?Drunk or something?And why buffing 50m the tank already good

Tell me what kind of player complaining about 215b being too good

[twin egret]

A dev got angry that they got paddled by a very good unicum fv215b player that they decided to nerfed it as punishment for said player

[half galleon]

comp will change, gives room for other heavy tanks to be used so itll be interesting to see cw with this update and what clans will come up with

[tall ermine]

Could be a valid reason for WG

[jagged crescent]

bruh leave my 215b alone 😭

@warped grove EY IT was LAG iswearomgomg

[safe heart]

Lag issues occur sometimes.

[hasty mulch]

why the maus nerf its already a balanced tank
It literally has the worst gun in t10 and you're just making it worse
atleast buff the pen or dpm with that nerf

[wicked quest]

ignores the mauses win bar above

[leaden flare]

i think that graph is taken from RU server not sure tho would love some clarification on that from thier side
on EU it doesnt feel nearly as strong

[full token]

Its still a strong tank currently so the nerf wont make it weak unless its a big nerf, and its only the size of the gun nerf we are unaware of

[hearty steeple]

On blitzanalysis for 8.0, maus is number 1 in relative winrate(by a fair margin) and 5th in avg winrate. The tank isn't a damage dealer but can influence the outcome of battles soo much. Maybe the gun nerf(and we don't know the severity of the nerf) isn't needed but it sure as hell needed some rebalance.

[toxic cove]

I'd suggest playerbase start to think, best way to fix many issues

[marble plank]

wow, nerf t10 tanks? I have been in this game for 5 years and every year I see how the tank lines are being destroyed more and only the premium and collector tanks matter! I have all the tanks and I think I should wargaming better many line tanks and not throw them away with the nerfs

[quasi axle]

yep it's totally not like almost every meta t10 tank is a tech tree tank
only premiums matter!

@wicked quest he said he has been in the game for 5 years

[wicked quest]

haven’t been in this game for 5 years
every year I see how the lines are destroyed

What?

[humble flame]

Pls also balance the Amx 30b's gun, either better dpm or better accuracy

[misty herald]

Buff emil series and kranvagn

[nocturne mauve]

Heavies should only receive nerfs

[boreal crag]

^

[quick lichen]

215b never needed any of its nerfs

[quick lichen]

Revoke the hp buff from 2019 would be perfect

[wicked quest]

@quick lichen that’s the only one I agreed with

[quick lichen]

Wait what

[quasi axle]

215b nerf is the only nerf you agree with ?

[quick lichen]

The 215b is going to be awful

[round nova]

which nerfs will fv 215b get?

[quick lichen]

Reload nerf

Plus the super speed is going to be less super

[full token]

annihilator nerf

[minor minnow]

Not even a direct nerf, remember that. But a nerf is a nerf

[manic jetty]

bruh why are u guys nerfing the e5, i mean like the turret is already slow..WG making it slower
and the reload time..that tank is balanced. and not nerfing anhi and smasher

[coarse harness]

The rof + turret traverse + speed boost nerf might be a bit overkill but we'll see

[quasi axle]

the e5 nerf is well deserved

[uneven narwhal]

I mean they haven't stated the significance of the RoF nerf
Have they?

[quick lichen]

1 second is rumored

[round nova]

how much dpm will fv215b lose

[quick lichen]

The same

1 second added to the reload time

Meanwhile, the 113 will reign absolute king of dpm

[hearty steeple]

With 1 second nerf it will go from 2900 at 100% crew base to 2600. which is quite a bit. Ofc big food and rammer will help a bit but it will lose about 250-300 dpm

Well I tried to calculate based on just 100% crew cause that's where the 1 second will be added. Since food and rammer will reduce reload based on percentages it wouldn't be the same as adding 1 second to a fully maxed out 215b

[quick lichen]

Currently it’s 3276

It’ll be roughly 2883

If it’s 1 second added

113 has 3440 btw

[quick lichen]

Blitzhangar 😉

[manic jetty]

nah

[quasi axle]

it is just as most of the other heavy nerfs

[fallow eagle]

Please don't nerf super speed boost
My t95 will be slow even with it then

[urban sleet]

umm i think tds need buff,i look tours now, its rare to see any td on 99% of maps

[full token]

people have been tortured by the t95 without the speed boost for years

[novel nimbus]

WG: makes pointless nerfs
Players: quit the game
WG: surprised pikachu face

[median iris]

True fv215b dosnt need nerf ngl

[unique scaffold]

Why are they buffing the E 50 M........ it's already fast enough and it shouldn't have higher dpm....

[toxic cove]

buff 30b bruh

[novel nimbus]

Yeah WG upgraded from questionable white flour to funny grass

[prisma jetty]

E50M is gonna be even more of a bully wagon

[deep shadow]

No! None of the nerfs to the heavy tanks are deserved!!! They make them less unique and uncomfortable! Instead Wargaming should ONLY buff the other classes, mostly some TDS and Mts! We must thank Wargaming’s Buffing department as they are doing a great job!!! We must help the Nerf department by displaying our dismay! Would you explain why?please?

[quasi axle]

yes

[lunar niche]

E50M probably got buffs because of Kampfpanzer lol.

[silk hamlet]

if they do go and nerf the 215b then the only thing itll be good at is looking cool
srsly why would you nerf an underperforming tank

[uneven narwhal]

Yes lets buff 3 entire classes, leading them to need to buff the lower tiers to keep the balance instead of nerfing one class....

[deep shadow]

Not all 3 classes! Just certain tanks! Ex: OBJ 263, E4, Pattons, Fv 4202, Wz111GFT and etc!!! All the heavy tanks right now are in the perfect state!!! Maybe except the Fv... just need to buff dpm a tiny bit.. like 0.5 seconds faster to make it strong and special!

[twin egret]

Yes! Some of the nerfs to the heavy tanks are well deserved! They will still be unique and comfortable! Instead Wargaming should NERF more heavy tanks, such as an HP Nerf! We must thank Wargaming's Buffing Department as they're actually doing a great job!!! We must ask the Nerf Department why they're nerfing the FV215b! Would you explain why the nerf, Nerfing, Devs? Please?

[silk hamlet]

please just leave the 215b alone it's already suffering enough

[deep shadow]

Hi! 🙂 Why HP nerf? That will not make the heavy tanks unique at all!!! Some tier 10 Mts and Tds have close to 2000 hp! If we nerf the super heavy tanks to have just 400 to 800 more hp, then what’s the point of them! It is quite moderately easy to circle, flank, and side hug the Maus, Kran, and Is4 in meds... plus the superior dpm! The E5 and Fv won’t be special anymore.. won’t differ as much from other heavy tanks! That is not want some players want in my opinion! A variety that is easily identified between tanks in the same class and between tanks in different classes is the goal! So no gun nerf nor HP nerf nor special speed boost nerf to the heavy tanks! The normal stat mobility nerf to the E5 however is acceptable but not preferred. The buffs to all other tanks are well deserved... maybe except E50 M... LOL! Maybe I am biased because I love the E5 and Is4 right now and plan to grind the Kran and Maus immediately after Gravity.... Now I can’t run the Maus with enhanced armor while running 3000hp 😦

[autumn zodiac]

None of them have 2k HP, only if you use Improved assembly and sandbags in the case of the Chinese TD. Jageroo is just a sub-par E 100 in all aspects.

[quasi axle]

You can't sidehug a kran or an is4, and they aren't even easy to circle

[uneven narwhal]

Heavies are very much meta right now, they have good view range, meaning they don't have to rely on lights and meds to do the spotting, combined with good armor, decent speed and good guns in general

[deep shadow]

Ok! Then nerf the view range perhaps? 🙂 In pubs, after beating the other meds and let’s! It is quite easy to flank and track the hts on almost every map as long as the enemies don’t all focus and yolo you while your heavies do nothing ( not pushing while enemies are distracted) then maybe buff the dpm of certain meds? 🙂

[autumn zodiac]

It's not just the view range, most heavies have so much health that a medium needs to spend a very long time taking one down even though they are supposed to have superior DPM

View range is a huge issue mind you

But the HP is on equal footing

[twin egret]

Not all super heavies are getting nerfed smh αnd not by 400 hp, they 'll still be unique. E5 neff is very much deserved honestly

[uneven narwhal]

Yes, I always thought of that as a viable nerf along with a tiny HP nerf
T10 heavies have around 264m view range with some above it
Lights average out at 290ish m

So lights and meds are literally irrelevant since a heavy can do everything on it's own, a prime example being the E5
Gets into positions fast because of the speed boost and can hold it's position due to hulldown capabilities

Also bruh did you just really say that HTs are weak when flanked?
Literally any tank is weak when flanked, you can't use that as a viable argument
This is like saying "HTs die when they lose all HP so they are balanced"

[deep shadow]

Ok! 🙂 then what is the difference of the Vk 90 running improved assembly and an E100 and Maus running enhanced armor in pubs... or even E100 vs Maus after nerf?!!! Not tourney as PRAMO exists.. As stated before... I just believe the the speed boost nerf is not desirable as it could affect TDS... a normal nerf to E5 mobility is fine... 🙂 @ The Demigod True I see your position now! I think I might have been actually persuaded

[quasi axle]

there's only two tds that have super speed one of em is fast already and is getting buffed and one of them is p slow but is getting mobility buff

[twin egret]

Bruh what does "not tourney as PRAMO exists" mean wth

The difference between a vk 90 running improved assembly & Maus/E 100 running Enhanced Armour is that the VK will have more HP than the E 100 but still lless than the Maus I believe

[lunar niche]

150 Hp nerf is not even noticeable on Maus.

Accuracy nerf came out of nowhere as the gun was already one of the worst.

[empty nexus]

I think the Nerfs are reasonable, I just hope the FV215B nerf isn’t harsh and only lowers dpm by a little bit(roughly 200 or so)as it’s front plate isn’t the best and it’s main (there are others but I’m talking main main)standout Is it’s gun

[drowsy plaza]

I’m a tad baffled by the 215b nerfs. But it’s a better med than a lot of tier X meds, is more due to the super consumables. The same issue with the E5. I personally think it’s a much more reasonable solution to dump those from them, than just nerfing super consumables a bit and hitting the tanks native ability.

[empty nexus]

In which case just take the super consumables away, no? I feel it would solve a lot of the problems

[stiff edge]

fv 215b is fine
its on steroids for like 15 or 20s then its a pretty weak tank that can hulldown to some degree
hatch weakpoint makes it often unreliable, and then it only has its gun to save it
if its gun was nerfed, it doesn't have much else to save it

[quasi axle]

it kinda was just a better med though

[primal mountain]

Heavy nerfs are the right way to deal with the imbalance. Otherwise WG should buff the other classes and tiers instead to balance the game. Fv215b has been struggling a bit, so I hope WG finds a way to keep it competitive.

[scarlet fjord]

the nerfs on IS-4 and kran wont change much WG in fact almost nothing

[stiff edge]

without the speed or the size
215b is w i d e

[quasi axle]

yes but it still bullied meds cuz armor/gun/hp/reactive

[twin egret]

It had no front armour, reactive is useless

[candid steeple]

So FV215B and E5 are currently really strong because of special consumables and what WG are doing is nerfing tank stats instead of removing special consumables. For love of good if you nerf guns that haven't been touched since release and not taking care of special consumables then your balance choices are trash and you should be reconsidering if you have right balance team up to the task. Heavies going with speed of mediums tank is balanced but guns that have been the main thing making them what they are since release but nerf that and not remove bs that you gave them. WG honestly get your things together. You are forcing special consumable power creep too much. I only play E5 because of the gun and if that is out of the picture and not competitive then forget the tank.

[stiff edge]

215b is far from really strong

[leaden flare]

yeah its pretty bad because all it has is gun

[twin egret]

Replace speed consumable on FV215b with Calibrated Reticle

[terse tinsel]

pls dont nerf my boy 215b. the whole point of it is to bully meds. meds still have the speed advantage so they can pick their fights.

[quick lichen]

It’s already has the best heavy tank gun in the game lol

[empty nexus]

Please Wargaming Listen to the people don’t nerf Ya homeboy FV215B it’s already Balanced, maybe even A bit powercrept, if you wanna nerf it take the consumable away leave the gun alone😭

[sharp kelp]

Just when I start to get over krans garbage dpm, and start liking it, they nerf the hp 😑👍💩

[quasi axle]

kran effective dpm isn't bad + the impenetrable turret remains

[uneven narwhal]

Kran's effective DPM lies around 2600~2700 if you can fire at the right moment

[frigid sigil]

huh M48 patton have already a good dpm why they buff this tank

[empty nexus]

Kranvagn is an insanely good tank, so damn deadly.

[twin egret]

Okay and? Why not make it even more better by easily shooting weakspots 200m metres away lol

[quick lichen]

It already does that

It needs speed and hp because the hull is huge, weak and sets on fire easily

[unique scaffold]

Low and medium range are forgotten when the kranvagn and other new t X tanks has been added to the game imao

[empty nexus]

Is there any chance Wargaming would reconsider Nerfing the FV215B in a different way(taking away speed boost) or is it already set in stone?

[drowsy plaza]

Let’s face it - the Kran is pretty much a turret face with a gun, the rest is very soft.

[scarlet fjord]

wargaming is making useless nerfs on crazy dumb tanks which they broke in the first place specially with their cracked consumables
and get this
instead of removing the cracked consumables which are causing the issue they are nerfing other aspects and hope it balances itself out
and for the love of god why are you nerfing 215B 🤦‍♀️ its considered powercrept slightly vs other heavies its in fact balanced its a med harassing heavy but that doesnt make it imba lol IS-7 can do that too its just as balanced
your balance team is bad WG you need to make some reforms

[drowsy plaza]

I really can’t fathom the E5 and 215b nerf’s. Clearly the correct answer was drop the super consumables, and provisions and boom - back to balance

[plush perch]

wonder how does obj263 changes turn out

[scarlet fjord]

for some reason WG doesnt like taking a step backward to fix their past missteps
they first attempt to fix the problem by masking it with a "fix" which absolutely doesn't resolve the problem and when they come to this realization they eventually after a ridiculous amount of time finally decide to do the right thing

[full token]

They even said that these tanks were able to move like mediums, and so they’d nerf them, but then they don’t just remove the consumables causing it

[empty nexus]

Precisely, without the Consumable the FV215B fully docked Has an average speed of 31kmph, with the booster is where it starts to feel like a medium, so just get rid of the Mega speed boost…

[candid steeple]

I gotta add few more complaints about buffs and nerfs. Maus should get 200hp nerf not just 150. IS-4 nerfs I welcome but tank will be hit harder then Maus since Maus already has too much hp. Also Maus is the best performing heavy tank in tier X. They made it idiot proof with hp and armor corner buffs.

Also obj. 263 armor buffs. I am actually nervous about armor buffs. Tank already has a lot of armor and I really but I mean I REALLY HOPE they don't buff mantler armor. Tank will have no weak points expect lower plate with that speed and dpm. If they really nerf E5 and 215 like they said and buff mantler of obj 263 they should really reconsider with replacing their balance team.

Well I have to hit with last thing. When is VK 72.01 K finally going to bet its turret buff so no everyone can pen your turret whatever you try to do. Buf turret cheek armor to 200mm. I don't care if people say that I play bad but it's not okay that every tank in tier X can go with standard ammo like LOL I shoot and pen your turret. Gold for free turret holes. It's a supper heavy with close to no effective armor that is only good in face hug but only against 1 enemy. If someone is on your side for just a bit you can't defend. Tank needs some rebalancing or changes. Also worst dpm gun in tier X after Kran but Kran is autoloader. JEEZ.

[remote oriole]

I actually would remove the consumables and then add the E5 nerf on top 🙃

[leaden flare]

Forget the nerf and give e5 cupola back😂

[drowsy plaza]

@candid steeple 263 weakspots? Well other than the LFP and mantlet you mentioned: Engine deck, sides, rear? The only armor is the UFP.

[candid steeple]

Good luck shooting 263 engine deck from a far. Also up close that spot being pennable is good way for telling obj players to not just rush in your face and murder you. Also obj is a TD and not a heavy tank. Only TD with good side armor is Jag. Obj also doesn't lack from gold spam as much as Foch 155. The moment people load gold it's lol you got no armor. Making obj 263 mantler unpenable will make obj few time more easy to play and that's a really big buff.

[leaden flare]

310 AP wasn't enough for the mantlet on my end so meds struggle quite a bit which is okay I guess

[quick lichen]

Should never have had the consumables

[full token]

Initially I didn’t mind the consumables because they said it’d be given to every tank, and it’d be unique to each nation, something like that. But then they started using it to balance tanks they considered weak enough

[leaden flare]

E3 🤣

I hope it doesn't take them as long as missiles to get rid of them
Or just remove the speed and aim one but leave reactive for every tank in the game

I would keep some hp on Heavys but rework Thier dpm some Heavys literally have med DPM espacially below T10 most Heavys beat meds in terms of dpm

[quick lichen]

It was so so lazy

And it has created a nightmare

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, remove the hp buff that heavies got a few years ago

2800 hp on an Is4 is ridiculous

Remove sand bags as well

[unique scaffold]

I really wish the high end consumables would go the way of the dinosaurs.

[remote oriole]

The the meteorite you want to see

Or super-volcano, whatever you prefer

[full token]

They’ve already done too many balance changes to just go around the consumable and provision removal

[unique scaffold]

As long as they end up extinct I don’t really care how it goes down.

The idea that a tank gets balanced around around a high end consumable is laughable to me.

[leaden flare]

i wish WG would listen to that feedback

[unique scaffold]

Yeah, so do I.

[golden turret]

They don’t care. We’ve been asking to have those god consumables removed for years and they haven’t done anything about it. So why bother asking them or trying to start a cult to have something buffed or nerfed if they’re just not gonna listen?

[nocturne mauve]

What’s WG I think you meant HG(heavy gaming)

[candid steeple]

Well problem is that not enough people is complaining.

Same thing why game is destroyed by premiums in lower tiers. Instead of people complaining it's a man race of who will get it first.

But honestly special consumables and spall should be removed from the game.

Small booster is good for better repositioning but not booster that allows you to quickly get out of bad situation. I can name countless times where I as Kran am in bad position and I just press speed boost and go 30+ km/h backwards and get in the cower were enemy can't shoot me. It's really dumb and rewards player for playing dumb.

Also Heavy chasing after meds and lights is a thing or heavies chasing other heavies with little to zero counterplay. Ah WG and their balance.

Only tank that I support special speed boost is T95. Tank has a lot of armor but way too many weaknesses. That speed boost doesn't make it go much faster but it helps a lot for short duration in turning speed to try and counter enemies flanking you.

[plush perch]

remeber when wg tried to add hp restoring consumable?

[nocturne mauve]

Again, what’s wg?

[full token]

Can’t imagine whatd happen if that made it to release and then got used as a balancing tool like the rest

[unique scaffold]

I’m really torn on this one. One one hand I really like seeing heavies get nerfed…. On the other hand I’m not to happy with the methodology behind how they are doing it.

[primal mountain]

Well, people are rarely good at admitting their mistakes 😉

[coarse mist]

personally, the only nerf I disagree with is the maus's hp, if they want it to be front line (which is the reason they said in the stream they were nerfing it) why would they nerf it's incentive to use it front line, the whole point of the german super heavys is to be used as a front line bullet sponge and bouncer, I think they should keep the health and keep dispersion nerf, maybe to compensate nerf it's traverse rate a little bit.

a more extreme measure might be to fix the turret cheaks so it is more usable frontline, but I don't necessarily think it's a good idea

[nimble zodiac]

Well the reason was that it was too good at frontline, since it could soak up so much damage. 150 HP is a decent chunk, but it won't ruin the Maus at all, because it's still a steel monster, fit for frontlining

[wicked quest]

It’s almost like a maus platoon can easily push anything with 6k hp seriously it’s been at the top in winrate charts forever now it deserves it lol

[winged barn]

Ignoring the e100 though...
And 113
And yoh
And vk90
And

Once those other mobile heavies take the nerf, what's left at the top of that category? Vk90

[lunar niche]

Don't forget T110E3.

[leaden flare]

Yeah the VK 90 is easily the most broken T10
It's supposedly weakspot is almost entirely red for heavy prammo

If those charts are from RU which I think they are then they make Maus a lot better then it is because on RU people shoot way less prammo

[outer glen]

Wg drunk on 215b nerf ngl

[coarse mist]

if super heavys having too much health and being able to push easily in pairs is the issue, and we nerf there health, what's the point of super heavys if they only get a few hundred more health then normal heavys?, especially when you lose so much mobility and traverse for that health, and, again, especially when a competent enemy team can flank, surround you and tear through that massive health pool, I agree that many heavys are broken including the vk90's very op armor, but personally I think the maus with it's dispersion nerf and a possible mobility nerf is balanced, but that's just my opinion

my reasoning is mostly based on wg reasoning, being people often don't play the maus front line

[winged barn]

What? Are all the mice you find on the red line or something?

[quasi axle]

People don't often play maus front line? Uh what

[thick rover]

Yes I'm looking forward to this

[coarse mist]

wg wouldn't be nerfing it's dispersion if everyone always did

[quasi axle]

The only people who don't Frontline in a maus are the people who don't know how to play it

[jagged crescent]

That’s a lot of people tbf

[coarse mist]

yeah, or else wg wouldn't be nerfing it's dispersion. but the real problem is why did wg nerf the 215b

[quasi axle]

<@&481447501690568709>

[quick lichen]

We good?

[nimble zodiac]

Yes :D

[quasi axle]

Yep another mod deleted thanks though 👍

[indigo knot]

It was nerf to tournament tanks in general
And I believe that if meta is like foch one...then slow tanks will get automatic nerf

[jagged crescent]

Unironically further cementing the Yoh in the meta

[unique scaffold]

I have a question
Why are they going to nerf the maus, is4, krangvagen and others?
I think they are totally unnecessary nerfs.
I mean, nerfing the maus is very stupid that is why the maus is supposed to be for that to resive the shots by the team, in short, it seems to me that they are unnecessary nerf.

[uneven narwhal]

IS-4 and Kranvagn are very strong tanks, deserved a nerf IMO
Also Maus will still be able to tke shots for the team, they've nerfed it's gun handling, not it's armor

⬇️⬇️⬇️

[nimble zodiac]

It's not about their purpose, it's about how good they are at fulfilling it

[dapper osprey]

Fr all this does is promote medium tanks getting nuked by 2 yohs in a bush

[nimble zodiac]

2 183s in a bush: 😈

@N.Z.#1459 it’s 900 vs 930 👀

[jagged crescent]

less hp mobility flexibility and armor just for the same standard shell alpha 🤢

[stray verge]

IS-4 and Kran nerfs are understandable. All wargaming had to do with the E5 is remove the consumables and sandbags, same with the 215b though the 215b could use more dpm. The 215b never needed a nerf, the tank simply needed rebalancing.

I don’t agree with how wargaming is buffing the E4 and 113G FT but they are significant enough to make them good tanks but not something absurd that makes these tanks broken. The 263 could used a superstructure buff sure but the mantlet and side buff is just going to make the 263 cracked.

Both pattons and 4202 is finally getting some love, though I wouldn’t give the Pattons russian medium DPM especially the M60

[stiff edge]

4202 gonna be pog

[lethal kraken]

Pls make medium tanks more powerfull. Me am sad =(

[nimble zodiac]

This is literally what’s happening

[unique scaffold]

heavi tanks in t10 dont need nerf
the tank that need nerf dracula,annihilador,vk90.01p and t22 medium

[scarlet fjord]

i just realized i was approaching this the wrong way
instead of asking for IS-4 E5 kran etc nerfs and consumable removal i should of kept asking WG to reform their balance team cuz MAN their bad

[unique scaffold]

is4 krang etc not need nerf heavi tanks in t10 nerf?
o come
maus other timer nerfed🙄 wg so bad

[uneven narwhal]

Lmao

[reef solstice]

Guys when you talk about heavy nerfs they were made for tournament play because the strat was getting stale (3 is4, 3 e5, and 1 t22 or vic) but with the nerfs maybe people will offclass more, like a td or e100, other meds or lights

[leaden flare]

Is4 nerf was more then needed but because they nerfed the other Heavys aswell is4 will still be used in tours because of its 374mm heat and it's bot proof Armor

[reef solstice]

You're right, but maybe something like the e100 (who also has very good pen on heat) will see more action. Or vk90 maybe will be more effective because its biggest counter got nerfed and the biggest possibility is for meds and lights. I remember the days of 5 or 6 obj 140 in comp and we might see more med use because heavys are slightly nerfed, its not like they're bad or anything

[empty nexus]

I only don’t get the FV215B Nerf as it’s not OP by any means, if they really want to nerf it then get rid of the Mega speed boost

[unique scaffold]

Who cares about what's getting nerfs and buffs at least the game will change for something different and become interesting again 😌

[empty nexus]

I hope that’s Sarcasm

[nimble zodiac]

Don’t rotate your turret? 😳

[frail silo]

Nerf bottom plate
Buff the upper and the frontal part of the turret a bit

[nocturne mauve]

Wow an actual good update to wohb? How surprising as I only expect heavy buffs

[drowsy plaza]

https://blitzhangar.com/en/update/8-2-preview

[chrome perch]

stop updating ingam spec and work on server cap.

[nocturne mauve]

Could this mean a slow return to world of tanks blitz not world of heavies blitz?

[empty nexus]

I don’t mind the other heavy nerfs, I only feel that the FV215B nerf was Unjust and extremely undeserved. It has poor hull armour, the turret is strong but cuz it’s rear turreted…yeah… The only saving grace of the tank was its medium DPM and incredible accuracy. Now the DPM has been nerfed, it’s been severely weakened, especially as it’s alpha is 400 and not 460 etc. so it kinda needed that DPM

[hearty steeple]

A bit early but does look promising. We would need more crucial nerfs across several tiers as well as buffs for some irrelevant tanks

[severe prairie]

Rip 263 0.37 dispersion
Similar as 100% crew 183

[dark pike]

thats alot of tanks affected by homogenization

[hasty sleet]

in this category says chat with devs, if you guys are the one who made the game, i need help on logging in, i cant log in no matter what i do, help me with this issiue juz pls -.-, just dm me when u devs got da answer

[severe prairie]

Well i guess obj263 change its a nerf, only adding 20mm side armor is a joke and the accuracy just killed it, E4 got its cupula buffed so it can get very strong

[unique scaffold]

Pls give Kv-2 back its good HE

Is4 nerf :( I have over 1k IS4 tournament battles. Don't nerf it

[unique scaffold]

But hey. . .they did a good job on the t7 french heavy tank

[hearty steeple]

Well the 263 did get a strong gun mantlet now. Meds will never pen it. There is a gap between the mantlet and the main armour so I doubt 374mm heat will pen it either, although the superstructure gets penetrated anyways with 374 heat so yeah

[nocturne mauve]

Can they actually give tier 7 heavies a proper nerf such as black prince and T29

[novel nimbus]

Even with 500 dislikes on the Post they will nerf it anyway

[sharp saddle]

They are going the opposite way, as they gave the T29 a buff in 8.1 lol

[silk hamlet]

the 215bs nerfed gun is just a conqueror with a gun rammer

[jagged crescent]

The e5 is gonna have less DPM than the IS4

[dark pike]

e5 murdered

[silk hamlet]

ok cool they also murdered the e3s cupola
it went from 229 primary to 152 spaced+51 primary

[drowsy plaza]

That was to stop us med drivers HE’ing and killing crew.

Not totally a nerf

@sharp saddle I choose to look at the 29 buff as an Annihilator nerf 😉

One of the NA Forum posters speculated the 215b nerf is so it and the E5 don’t rule a more mobile meta shift. Personally while I’ve never thought the 215b needed a buff, I never expected this massacre in 8.2 to it. But hey 60kph 4202, all in all the Brits did well in 8.2 proposed changes

[unique scaffold]

A speed buff to the 7/1 as well! 🎉

[uneven narwhal]

I can deliver my Daily Dose of 🅱️ESH faster now 😌

[nocturne dragon]

really, wargaming going to nerf FV215B? the heavy tank with the least amount of armor and hp, now they're nerfing the reload time too, which is it's only strong point? FV215B literally is almost easy pen in the turret.

First you screwed up the Tourneys, now you're screwing up something that is already balanced. How many years has it been for the IS-7 too since it's last buff besides the general increase of HP? Really Wargaming? Do you really even know how to balance your GAME? going to touch the FV215B now even though it needed an armor buff only but not the reload time nerf. Where is it's uniqueness now? IS-4 is a braindead tank that no matter who uses it, it's strong front armor will keep the player alive, yet you do not dare to atleast try to balance something in it, yet you go for the FV215B, literally one of the most underpowered tank with its uniqueness is only it is the fastest HT reloader, while mk 6 being the second.

And the statement below, this is my reply.
6mm doesn't really make a change if they can just use HEAT, which most tanks will pen, with calibrated.

[silk hamlet]

they increased the 215bs ufp by 6mm tho lol
and side turret too i think, look at blitzhangar

yes ik it doesnt do much
i said it as a joke because its a really bad buff

[full token]

That would be the homogenization removal

[sharp saddle]

I can understand that speculation.
to help the armour orientated tanks that aren’t heavies to shine a little better, such as the changes the Object 263 and E 50 M are receiving. Though, I do not think the E 50 M is struggling as the 263 is

[nocturne mauve]

Tier 7 heavies such as the black prince and T29 have way too much armour, HP and they even have those consumables

Let me have fun in my 13 57 for once 😂

[winged barn]

They care for balance in tier 10.

Other tiers don't matter

[nocturne mauve]

I think they don’t care about balance at all

[severe prairie]

Didnt notice armor was added behind the mantlet, 374mm cut through cheeks easily tho, the dispersion now is just horrible, 183 level

[drowsy plaza]

It’s never been a sniper.

[drowsy plaza]

The 215b really didn’t need a buff, it has always been a SU Farming tool. But the nerfs are way too deep IMHO

They just need to trash the super consumables and provisions from at least the 215b AND E5 lines.

[unique scaffold]

You spelled “all lines” wrong.

[drowsy plaza]

My bad

Admittedly I already have tough time not typing stupid consumables instead of super.

[gleaming apex]

cacablast#6589 has been warned.

[sweet prism]

Why no reverse speed nerf for super engine boost? These tanks can relocate in reverse with engine boost!

[nocturne dragon]

yeah well it didn't really need a buff, but could use some on armor tbh, but the nerf on the reload is just way, way, way stupid to be even thought in the first place. What's the point of nerfing a tank that isn't even relevant in the meta, nor being used in tourneys? What the hell is Wargaming been cracking all these weeks? I need to know why on how did they come up with nerfing the FV215B's reload time.

[scarlet fjord]

the nerfs on tier 10 heavies were not strict enough particularly on IS-4 E5 and kran

[drowsy plaza]

I’d argue you are probably right on that IS-4. But the Kran and E5 took big hits.

[open kayak]

Maus nerf is dumb

[full token]

Well deserved

[silk hamlet]

put a gun rammer on your conqueror
thats how the nerfed 215b reload will feel like (100% crew no equipment/provisions)

[scarlet fjord]

BRUH why is WG nerfing IS-7's turret lmao it was perfectly balanced

[quasi axle]

they aren't read the top of the blitzhangar page

[twin egret]

What is SU

[open kayak]

maus was so good before nerf now its so bad. Guys grind for E100, dont waste time anymore on Maus. I wish maus was still good 😢

[winged barn]

Lmao

[uneven narwhal]

It's a 150 HP reduction and a 0,02 dispersion increase
It's not gonna be trash bruh

Although if ur statement is sarcastic, I have failed to detect it, am sry
12am brain moment

[terse tinsel]

fv215b was so good before nerf now its so bad. Guys grind for wz-113, dont waste time anymore on fv215b. I wish fv215b was still good

[prisma jetty]

Maus is literally not going to change. It will be the same, just with a tiny bit less hp.

[open kayak]

but E100 is gonna reaplace it at this point. No nerf- just 100 hp difference, and E100 has like 150 dpm more with upgraded gun. btw no it was not sarcastic, i want the maus to be as it is now, its literally legend and not even the best, as its sides and back are pretty weak. You feel me? maus has so big weak spots, nerfing it would just make it not worth it grinding. also, its not even hard to destroy it with 3000. worst nerf ever done by wg. But I guess its fine, if wg really wants to do this, let them, they'll just ruin it. To get it slightly better you have to buy all the equipment...

@prisma jetty yeah, like its nothing... it was made to have so many hp, why remove them? ill still get it because i have mauschen and at this point there is no going back

[uneven narwhal]

Because heavy meta?
And not like Maus is the top Heavy Tank, yes even better than the IS-4 in terms of winrate??

[slim trellis]

13 75 needs a pen buff. It cant pen the fv301 in the upper plate on flat groud

[nocturne mauve]

Also I had a match where 2 top tier enemies were heavies and mine? We had one bottom tier heavy. Of course we lost because we literally cannot clear their HP

[twin egret]

Chinese tanks are literal cringe

[full token]

Super unicum maybe

[jagged crescent]

The 215b and e5 nerfs are over the top. WG only needed to address the issue with the enhanced speed boost consumable. Now there’s almost no reason to run an e5 or 215b

Also why touch the Maus gun, that was never an issue in the first place

[terse tinsel]

honestly just completely remove the -20% damage consumable from the game. agreed

[nocturne mauve]

Remove all special consumables apart from FV4005

[full token]

Remove it from the 4005 too. Don’t need to make paper tanks not have to worry about being HEd. Buff it instead to make up for some of the consumables

[drowsy plaza]

Sorry that makes sense. We will need to burn you at the stake 😉

[twilit crystal]

@drowsy plaza The HE comes from the splash onto the roof, @full token the 4005 needs the HE spall liner, like its nice for the Grille but a must have for the 4005. On PC you can't insta switch even with intuition and the 4005 on PC benefits a lot from being able to switch between the 2 big shells it has

[drowsy plaza]

@twin egret SU: Super Unicum as @full token had guessed.

@twilit crystal I’d agree to that for the 4005, or one could just give it relatively HE proof armor. But frankly the entire Super line specific items just makes little sense - as you’d think they could balance without - or give it ‘innate’ abilities tank specific, not line specific

[light monolith]

Just pointing it out there, the ammorack on is7 is still not fixed. It's becoming a meme at tier x , thanks

[somber widget]

What’s there to fix?

[prisma jetty]

Just pointing it out, the E5's ammo rack is weaker. IS-7 should be memed as much as it is, tanks

[severe prairie]

True but it was versatile, i hope it works as expected in frontline then, hyped but not much😅

[light monolith]

Ahh that's true, both of em got weak ammorack, or maybe it's because everyone knows about their ammorack positioning.

[leaden flare]

Can anyone tell me if the update balances graphs WG is posting are from EU RU or all combined ?

Or point out any official statements if possible cuz id say there are pretty big server differences
Asia with big ping differences iirc
RU with less prammo spam
And EU and NA just have different metas just as prob the other servers

[quasi axle]

Ru only iirc

[leaden flare]

@unique scaffold pls
Idk of the person itself deleted it or a mod did anyway thx

[urban owl]

Wargaming moment.

This is why I've already guessed this game will not last any longer. The devs are just not thinking properly on how to properly balance things and is always on crack and something else. They make discussions about this, yet I don't even think they will listen to our discussion here. What's the point of making channels about specific things if you're not even going to listen to it? And maybe listen for once again. I'm guessing it's for formality of being a developer. Very pointless channels. You devs are just pitiful and pathetic at this point, trying to milk this game as much as you can while the game lasts, doesn't listen to their community as they actually know better on how to run tourneys, balance tanks, fix maps and bugs, and so on, because we are the one that actually plays the game.

Mute me, delete this or whatever. What I said is a fact and it will never change until Wargaming itself decides to, for good. It's not even self proclaimed, but then a fact.

Reply below me:
No it was not for most of the cases. FV215B didn't need the nerf, and so did the E5. There was unnecessary nerfs in the update that will kill the tank as a whole. It's not even easy for newer players to play HTs, therefore becoming an easy farm. They should learn by themselves slowly like the older players did. A new player shouldn't even rush himself/herself to tier 10 and if they do, that's entirely their problem. There is little to no step in the right direction, what the hell are you even talking about? Do you really even know what're you're thinking? HTs did need the HP buffs since the start, because the point of using HTs is to tank hits and exchange shots. Its HP level shouldn't even be that at the same as the medium tanks.

[nocturne mauve]

No this update was a step in the right direction, it’s finally time for heavies to step back since their unneeded ridiculous buffs most likely caused by noobs not knowing how to play heavy tanks and Hg(heavy gaming) making it easy for them whilst not considering the fact the game is not based around newer players

[quasi axle]

"not even easy for newer players to play hts"
No, it is way easier for new players to play hts, the armor + hp combo allows you to do stupid stuff and not die
The nerf was to break up heavy meta and pretty much every nerf other than 215b was justified

[ionic dagger]

They should remove the speed consumables from the heavy tanks as the e5 and 215B are quite flexible

[urban owl]

I don't think new HT players even live that long ingame, only if they literally went to the other side where no enemy tanks are there. You can literally pulverise an E100 under a minute with an MT if you try.

The armor is quite pointless if the enemy tanks are just going to use gold ammo, and spam it.

And also, I never talked about the speed boost consumables or the thing that reduces dmg temporarily, they can all do what they want with it, but the nerfs on some heavy tanks aren't justified. And when you lose to top tier HTs, that's because you didn't try harder in the first place. I'm not even going to tell you how, learn it yourself. I literally have no problems using an MT against HTs because I know what to do.

Didn't ask about your opinion also. Doesn't make me scared of the fact you are mod replying to my statement.

[nocturne mauve]

Since when did heavy tanks need so much HP? You think a heavy cares about your hits nowadays? No because they know they can abuse their HP. Heavies should rely on their armour and actually care about deflecting shots not just taking them. HP is not the only issue and there are consumables, provisions that only make the heavy issue worse. Honestly when I see top tier heavies in the other team and mine have low tier heavies I just predict the match as a loss and it’s usually true, we don’t have enough time to finish their heavies off because of their HP

[unique scaffold]

Your opinion ≠ facts.

[left minnow]

ok

[gritty crescent]

ok susman

[nimble zodiac]

This man said heavies weren't easy to play?

At least in comparison, they're easier to play than lights or mediums

[quasi axle]

there are plenty of heavies that have armor that is very hard to pen with prammo (eg kran turret, is4, e5 turret, etc)
Simply due to higher heavy durability newer players will survive longer than in an mt/lt no matter what

[urban owl]

Alright, I might have to agree to your point, but as just what I said, there was some unnecessary nerfs to the extent it will kill the tank 90% to 100% of it.

Below me, have you seen most Asia HT players living most of the time in a round and only get out 1200 dmg and die? How is that always doing better?

[nocturne mauve]

Noobs will always do better in heavies because of the slow playstyle, armour and HP in case they make mistakes

[dusky fable]

besides, the games have 7 minutes. its useless heavy tanks have a lot of HP. It just makes games last longer and the chance of draws are way higher than before. This only shows the heavy dominance in the current state

[unique scaffold]

The game isn’t balanced around the ASIA server. It is primarily balanced around the RU server.

[nimble zodiac]

Because 'better' is a term of comparison. Throw that player in a faster, weaker, and less armored tank and see how many shots they get with their lower penetration, lower damage, and a tank that can not only fail to bounce shots as much as heavies, but more quickly yolo or put themselves in danger.

Heavies allow more survivable, better brawling capabilities because of their armor, HP, and general slowness. They're more stable, and don't even need to focus on how their team is doing, because their job is to brawl out the enemy heavies and then crush the rest.

[gritty crescent]

just remove heavies and they cant be an issue

[delicate solar]

5HEAD

[nocturne mauve]

Never heard of such a great suggestion, let’s make a return to world of tanks blitz

[urban owl]

I mean, the point of HTs is what you have said. But as I've also said, newer players generally should take their time learning to play, not just rush to tier 8-10, but you're also right, but they do need to focus on how their team is doing, because if the team is quickly dying or getting farmed quite easily, then that's the moment the HT players ingame know they're gonna get screwed next.

[nimble zodiac]

The biggest issue recently is that heavies were beginning to replace mediums, the mobility was all mediums had left, and heavies were crossing into that territory. Now with their nerfed speed and super-consumables, mediums still have their mobility to rely on, but still lack against heavies

Notice how the most recent medium releases were based on clip potential?

[twin egret]

Nerf WZ-113

[delicate solar]

its strong actually, but i dont think it is need nerf

[gritty crescent]

give 113 E5 consumables, medium like traverse and 380 heat pen and its a balanced tank

[fallow eagle]

More like balance wz113

[urban owl]

I just think wargaming is trying to put more clipping mediums as most non clipping MTs have the same playstyle imho, as putting another like a medium hulldown tank will only copy MTs such as STB, Patton and M60, or brawling MT like the E 50 M, or sniper MT like the Leo 1, though yeah it has been quite a while since another MT with a non clipping gun was released.

[nimble zodiac]

I'm sure Kpf 50t and Obj. 907 will set that straight

[quasi axle]

imagine sniping in a leo gross

[twin egret]

Why dont thwy nerf the vk 90, it's a collector tank afterall

[gritty crescent]

🤑

[remote oriole]

They should at very least give it the turret ring weakspot back

[gritty crescent]

just remove it 😔

[rancid trellis]

I’d like some balancing on the m48 Patton

[prisma jetty]

You mean like the buff it's getting?

[rancid trellis]

@prisma jetty no I mean why does it have 26% camo rating when every other medium is 35%+

[prisma jetty]

I mean, that doesn't really matter, but at least it's better than the M60's. Besides, camo doesn't really matter in anything other than snipers

[rancid trellis]

The fact that I’m spotted way before anyone else on my team even some heavys does matter, the armor profile isn’t great so you can’t rely on anything to keep you hidden I mean hell even the E100 doesn’t get spotted as easily

[prisma jetty]

Seems like a play style issue considering the E100 has less than half the camo the M48 does

[rancid trellis]

@prisma jetty no sir E100 has 17% without equipment, 23% with, your forced to run camo with the 48 other wise your 3% higher than the E100

[prisma jetty]

Don't trust in game values.

[drowsy plaza]

@rancid trellis you seem to be missing a lot of game play mechanics if you think that.

M48 - no crew skills applied and I assume it’s running a camo (not net)

E100, no crew skills and using a camo (not net)

25m dif when still, 20m when moving - and when shooting the distance gap decreases (which makes no sense for giant gun on the E100 should light up the grid square - but it is what it is)

[split cliff]

unbalanced matching

[unique scaffold]

Read the pinned messages

[quick lichen]

🙄

[gleaming apex]

Shärkø#9145 was muted

[golden turret]

Get muted. I’m tired of people like you with all the MM complaints, it’s called random for a reason!

[candid steeple]

In my opinion mediums are still more effective then heavies. Also I like slower meta more. More meds means flanks falling like apples from apple trees. Meds need more skill to drive but in return they give values to your team more. I honestly think that heavy tank hp buffs, which were like 200 hp each with slight differences except Maus whose health bar got overbuffed, wouldn't have been a problem if WG didn't go out of their way to introduce special consumables that make heavies move like mediums and get reduced damage. Btw some heavies even got provisions to boost their hp even more because WG no brain moment.

Well I gotta mention this but they introduced spall liner for litteraly no reason whatsoever. Their balance choices and stuff that they added in last 3 years are worse after the worse.

My icing on the cake is that they are nerfing heavies that got special consumables because of special consumables but they nerf the tank and not remove BS that they previously gave them.

Also I love to see stupid medium tank drivers that just complain and want heavies to get nerfed no mater what the reason.

Just imagine this. If medium tank drivers got more pen and would pen heavies a lot easier. They would be like YES even though that would ruin heavies as a whole they would be fine with that. Because you know mediums should be able to go 1v1 against heavy and still beat it even though they got everything over heavies except alpha and survivability. Also heavies got buffed in hp but mediums got better turret armor over few years. And I honestly ask which buffs are bigger. STB-1 turret being 10 times harder to pen from pen every day to no pen every day or heavy tanking 1 more shot? Tell me all you smart asses. Would you like as med to get on STB-1 capability to survive one more shot or get a much stronger turret? Like I don't get this people. HP buffs is the stupidest buff every imagined. I support HP buffs but some heavies got too much of it and WG is reducing it.

[nimble zodiac]

My issue is that heavies in general had everything except mobility versus mediums, except DPM in tier 9/10, and those super consumables, specifically the engine boost, allowed heavies to be more maneuverable, which was the last thing mediums had left against them. We need well-armored heavies to be slow, so they don't tread on the niche of mediums.

[uneven narwhal]

A prime example of this is E5 and Kranvagn
They have the speedboosts that give them medium like mobility, along with 374 HEAT pen with CS, impenetrable turrets, and also good DPM

[nimble zodiac]

Well, Kranvagn has the most valid impenetrable turret

[candid steeple]

E5 turret is overrated. E5 armor is overrated. E5 turret is decent but tank would be really bad without that gun.

[nimble zodiac]

Super Conqueror, with effectively the same gun (ofc CS brings out the difference, but meh)

[winged barn]

Skonk gets a massive gun depression advantage. I happily trade the superspeed boost for gun depression

[unique scaffold]

the conqueror rly needs a turret buff

[terse tinsel]

bro stress bout that later, the main one finna get its dpm snatched. pls have mercy on my 215b

[jagged crescent]

Kran’s speed boost at best turns them into a normal e5.

[empty nexus]

100%. Also instead of nerfing a few heavies why not nerf more? But yeah I defo think that the team with more meds (that are good players) will win, but yeah some heavies need nerfing but defo not FV215B, at most it needs a rebalance I’d say, more armour, worse gun.

[twin egret]

Wth, not worse gun, better gun, without changing armor

[jagged crescent]

Bruh why are they nerfing the e5 and 215b dpm. The speed boost was only thing that was problematic

[hot fiber]

really ?

[nimble zodiac]

Yes, so it’s more fit to frontline

[full token]

Now it’ll be a yolowagon

[hot fiber]

Yes, 0.307 is too precise for the obj263 and his play style.
BUT 0.374 what the hell ???
0.340-0.350 would be waaaaaaaaay enough !

Death Star has 0.367, it means that the 263 would have worse gun dispersion than the death star ! Don't forget that the 263 is supposed to shoot while driving...

I can't understand why you nerf so much the gun dispersion to a point where you can't connect the shells anymore even when stationary... You can't chase anymore anyone bcs you won't be sure you will hit the enemy...

No more snapshots, you will have to stop, aim, then shoot while praying rngesus... It's too luck-dependant : sometimes you will annihilate the enemies, and sometimes do horrible shots and will not pen/miss

[unique scaffold]

60TP incoming

[full token]

Death Star has 0.431 and this will have 0.374. The values above are without equipment and provisions. The Death Star values you took were with equipment and provisions. It’s not too bad. Still more accurate than the E100, and the buffs should let it fight closer to enemies

[jagged crescent]

E5 dpm nerf is still crippling

[hot fiber]

We agree on that, It's true we can't make judgments without the right numbers, I hope the tank won't get too unprecise...

[rough topaz]

Why do they have 5 heavies? thought 4 of a class is max?

[stiff edge]

there is no limit on any class except tds

[dreamy oar]

What if we nerf the t110e5 base acceleration so it’s slower to reach its top speed with the speed booster and since I doubt WG is gonna remover the op consumables, let’s make so when the speed booster is on, the turning arc of the tank becomes wider

[twin egret]

Needs a wheelchair

[plush perch]

they specifically wanted to make it frontline tank anyway

[full token]

ik

[candid steeple]

If WG nerfs 215 and E5 and doesn't remove special consumables then WG needs a wheelchair for their brain.

[twin egret]

They are very big brain then if their brain needs a wheelchair

[ionic dagger]

The kranvang nerf is stupid, now he will be more clumsy than he already is!

[nimble zodiac]

Or will they be less clumsy, since they need to conserve HP more?

[drowsy plaza]

Keep in mind these nerfs are being tested on open test. Nothing is 100% until update is released.

[stone gull]

i think kran turret rotate nerf is really useless too it will just make tank destroyers life easier.

imagine you are at hull down at at top of the hill and a 100hp crazy med appears from nowhere now you have to kill med but thanks to nerfed turret traverse speed enemy fv will hesh you from your back of the turret so you can close the game and rage. Same for e5 too now at hull down it will be more punishing because corners of turret can be seen much longer time while you are trying to kill other peoples.

also the guys camping with heavy tanks like maus doesn't even care about its "Dispersion" they dont have any clue about the tank or its job. With the nerfed dispersion they not gonna think like, "oh my shells doesn't connect anymore i should go front line and vacuum some hp and lead the game for my team".

at overall making med tanks meta is bad idea because of something called latency a.k.a ping. At a heavy tank you fire at every 10sec at overall with med its 6sec so more flow of data going to server players with bad connections or mobile players have to aim more and miss more so this can decrease their "fun" also if meds can kill heavy tanks easily it means no one will learn how to play heavy or learn hold the line at proper times all they will learn rush where team goes.

at last, the guy playing heavy tank with skill will be punished from this update i guess because the idea of clutching for heavy tank decreases so much.
Imagine you played 4 heavy vs 3 heavy with your two teammate and you survived from the situation and somehow your meds and tds failed to win 4v3 situation so you have to deal with meds by yourself with your maybe half hp tank and thanks to your nerfed stats you lost it. As you can see you will be rely on team so much while your heavy tank and you can blame your teammates much more than before.
sorry for grammar ik its painful to read

[plush perch]

imagine you are in any tank and see kran hulldown, no option but shooting HE. How is that fair? Sheesh with HT meta, you have had enough of it

[nocturne mauve]

They still have too much HP even after this update

[twin egret]

Wrong

[outer glen]

Bruh hts back then have less hp than 8.2 lmao the hp nerf is fine but the traverse nerf idk and dpm nerf 215b absolutely NO

[unique scaffold]

I don’t really know why « mobile players » should aim for a longer time...

[uneven narwhal]

If a enemy med yolos you at 100 HP, you should have time to shoot him before he even comes close to you, and lets assume you are reloading
Then:

1. The FV yoloes you because you are an easy target, without any allies to help you out
   In this case, it's your own fault for not sticking with the team
   or
2. The FV yolos you and gets deleted if you have the team behind you
   And IDK about you but I don't close the game and rage because I could not kill a 100 HP medium that HEed me in the side due to my lack of situational awareness

The tanks are not balanced taking into consdieration the bad players that camp, if that were to be considered, why not buff every tank's dispersion so it can become easier for them to camp? The Maus is meant for taking hits for the team, so a 0,02 dispersion nerf is not going to make it useless suddenly

Also I really don't know how you came up with the latency thing because that makes litereally no sense

And if your meds failed to hold the flank and you have to deal with enemy meds, it is nowhere near a excuse to buff the heavies
If your meds fail to hold and you only have to deal with them, you can still do it, and this is totally not related to balance
I can say that "OMG no my IS-4 lost a 1v3 against meds so it must need a buff"
No.
We don't put tanks in overly specific situations and then decide if they need a buff or not, we look at their overall performance and how they play generally and then decide

[candid steeple]

Kran already has slow af turret rotation. Kran is already boring af because of terrible mobility and dpm. Tank is only good at one thing and when you push it it can't escape without special booster and it has literally no armor on hull. In my opinion T57 and AMX 50 B are far better tanks just because they got everything over Kran except armor but shortage of armor can be ignored with skill. I got Kran and it's my least favourite tier X tank that I got. Everyone just looks at that turret armor and is like oh no while when you play it, at least in my opinion, you get annoyed by so many limitations that tank has. It's at least in my opinion. I just maxed the crew to 100% and got bored from playing the tank. I don't like to be limited so much for the excuse of the turret while AMX 50 B has monster of an gun and medium mobility. All flexibility and no focus at one thing is far better.

Just imagine removing speed boost from Kran. Because Kran is balanced around speed boost because WG zero brain logic tank would sink to bottom of the tier list without it. Mobility is just so bad.

[sinful cedar]

Btw, turret traverse on kran is prob the best compare to other hts

[thorny mirage]

So why mk6 is not getting nerfed too? Its kinda like medium, bcuz it premium? Ckckckckc

[leaden flare]

For one I think the rotation nerf on kran was a bit harsh and a bit over the top but on e5 it's fine

Heavys are so noobproof the nerf won't do much if you get rushed and a 183 snipes you well that's your fault for not getting into cover before turning around that should be your first thing so stop crying that oh no my alread overperforming Heavys will get nerfed now I can't hold my 50% anymore because now I'm not able to do every single job in the game anymore

I don't like all the nerfs, some i find quite unnecessary like Maus people that snipe with it won't stop because of some nerf they won't even read the patch notes in the first place

[nimble zodiac]

Tanks don’t get balanced to be fun :)

[candid steeple]

You are calling Maus nerfes unnecessary while it's the most dominant HT at tier X but agree on nerfing E5? I don't think that you got rites on an opinion. 50% what 50%? That's still bad wr. Also nerfing heavy flexibility to limit them more and letting mediums have more and more buffs so they can resume every role. Yeah. After all the buffs to armor that meds received in past 3 years I think that only thing keeping heavies still there is that 200hp more that they got.

I think that I have to say this again. Would you like STB-1 to be eable to take one more shot or to not be penned all day every day? Pls insulting sir tell me which buffs are far more unbalancing.

You know there must be a problem somewhere if mediums can't fight against heavies on the same flank. You know we will ignore mobility and view range part but it's a bad thing that mediums can't also fight against heavies on equal footing.

If you think that Maus is easy to pen then you haven't fought a good Maus player. What you now mentioned is balancing tank over people not knowing how to play it.

[leaden flare]

Idk how special you have to be to not get that both Kran and E5 are strong as hell and Maus doesn't have nearly as much potential due to being easy to pen with both AP (in some situations) and easy to heat most of the time even the front upper plate

Meds rn are nowhere near dominant and yes STB is a good hulldown but has cheeks and a HEable cupola for some tanks also Heavys still have way superior turrets like IS 4 and Kran

There is no clarity if the balance chart is from EU RU NA Asia or all combined because if it's RU then the Maus chart is just highly influenced by the fact that they don't shoot nearly as much prammo as EU does

You can angle Ur Maus as much as you want if an IS4 want to pen you with cs it will either in facehug through your ufp or your turret

[candid steeple]

Why would you go face hug in Maus when you know they can pen your upper plate with gold? You can make that upper plate not being pennable by cs gold of heavy tank but it's hard. All in all you don't go face hug in Maus. I think that it's actually a good thing because it's limiting Maus somewhat. Also as Maus you got easy time shooting IS-4 commanders hatch. So it's not that onesided and you got more hp. I shot IS-4 there many times so I can say it's an easy spot to pen with german super heavies. Also IS-4 upper plate is much easier to pen then upper plate of Maus.

Tbh I don't like your aptitude for complaining about tanks but forgetting that they got speed boost and saying nothing about it.

[fallow eagle]

Glad they are nerfing heavies
Can't wait to finally be able to play my meds without fearing a fast heavy pushing med side and rendering meds useless

[candid steeple]

Fast heavy part is not getting removed tho. You misunderstood that one.

[stone gull]

@unique scaffold not longer they have to aim more because of meta of med tanks. Im expecting to players play med tanks because they will be more powerful.
@uneven narwhal

1. Im not talking about yolo talking about camping FV or any other TD just imagine ur at hulldown at mines top of the hill and a t-62a rushing from left or right flank from the lighthouse you are right bout teammate idea but situations like this can happen.
2. I think maus getting nerf because of tournament tactics like 2 maus to cap let them try to kill maus and win the game or ur right maus is just a little nerf.
3. I dont know about you but at my games if there is 3 med i always had %1, %2 loss its getting really bad at gravity games
4. Im not telling buff the heavies im telling heavy tanks will rely to team much more than before. They can still be deal with meds but just makes it harder this also they told something about changing meta to med tanks this nerfs will be start of the change.
5. at game development no one likes making big changes at one update its not stable idea this can ruin the game at overall so they do meta changes update by update little nerf to heaves, little buf to meds and maybe light tanks. This update is just beginning for the change.

[uneven narwhal]

From lighthouse flank you have rock cover and does not matter how fast u rotate ur turret, you're gonna get shot nonetheless
City flank is protected by a big damn hill so yeah you're good to go
You simply cannot base things off one situation

[nimble zodiac]

I'm happy when I facehug IS-4s or E5s in AMX M4 mle 54, they HEAT spam and I gun block 😎

[leaden flare]

<@&481447501690568709>

[stone gull]

its just a example its not the only hulldown position at whole game but the situations like that can happen.

[candid steeple]

I just think that as they go slow with the change and people actually realise how strong meds are the moment meta shifts welp. Tbh I would rather have slower games then meds rushing flanks and suicide. Also fewer heavies means again just following meds wherever they go and since they are faster they just leave you behind and you are like alone waiting to catch up or your team just gets nuked and you are all alone. I will just note one thing. Before heavy hp buffs. E 50 M, STB-1, Patton, T-62A and some other tanks didn't have gun depression and overbuffed turret armor. If they bring back heavies to what they have been before the buff then tier X will be power creeped by mediums to the core. I still don't like WG decisions to give heavies just a bit more hp but change play style of mediums completely with overbuffs. But we will see.

Honestly on average mediums are easier to play then before. Some mediums and lights got mayor dpm buffs like WZ-121. A lot of tanks didn't have armor but I don't know why WG introduced that policy to make everything have more red and less skill. I am talking about the entire game not just medium tanks at tier X.

Actually when you think about it. This game needs far less skill then how much it used to need 2-3 years ago. Tiger I, tiger II, Panther, japP, IS, IS-2, T29, Jagtiger 8.8, Jagtiger and so on, I am too lazy to remember all, Got major armor buffs that they didn't need or a lot of tds got too much dpm that they didn't need. There is no more "tank is bad but I make it work". No now is if tank doesn't have enough armor everyone calls it trash and what everyone looks at first is if tank has enough armor to be easy to play.

[stone gull]

well i do understand what wg wants to do but i think this can hurt wotb. At wotpc games are so thin i mean one correct rush with all team literally unbreakable and gets t he win but at wotblitz you have a chance to break this strong rush because of player number and tanks balance its really nice for current meta. Its really good mechanic and players are happy with that too.

I think wg wants to player base learn how to use med or light tanks thanks to current heavy meta everyone can pick heavy and do a decent fight with a bit knowledge when meta changed decent heavy players will be punished but they will learn how to play meds. Tournaments side as you can see most used heavy tanks like e5, kran, is4 will be changed too maybe instead of 1 med they will go with even 2 meds.

I honestly think meta changes needed because game should cycle otherwise everyone go master on is4, kran or e5 and play all day same tanks but the changing way is quite bad because they re hitting tanks from their weakspots "turret rotation speeds". Its the worst type of nerf because it contains, dpm and armor.With lower rotation speeds they wont be able to hide weakspots like before and they wont be able fight like before against meds (showing more weakspot for armor wise and hitting 8 shots instead 10 shots dpm wise)

[candid steeple]

Problem for tournaments is that it's not a med if it's not T-22. Also most spammed med that I see in randoms is T-62A. That gun depression overbuff really made the tank to be idiot proof. You see 200 more hp is much more bigger thing of a buff then giving you an entire new play sty;e. Giving T-62A ability to properly go hull down with that turret armor is like heavy getting a medium speed. But people seem to not notice it. gun depression or 200 more hp. From turret armor to be easy pen to really hard to pen or 200 hp. I am just waiting for meta to shift and people see the red meta that WG did with mediums. E 50 M had like 180 mm of turret armor now it has 250 mm. SO on E 50 M would you rather have 200 more hp or 250 mm of turret armor. Btw heavies haven't been buffed much unlike meds. If meta again shifts to meds it will be worse for heavies then before. Tbh I would really love if there was a button to revert everything that has been buffed over last 3 years.

[full token]

the 62a still has cheek weakspots for prammo, and outside hulldown spots youll have a hard time bouncing anything

[real bison]

^ any TD or heavy can load prammo and oh look your turret is grey

[stuck acorn]

i agree with HP nerfs and mobility nerfs for heavies, traverse speed nerf for E5 is fine for me, but i think they gone a little bit to far with decreasing kran's turret traverse for nearly a half of it. maybe they could make this nerf little smaller, but the thing i don't agree with at all is DPM nerf for 215b. This tank has trash armor, bad mobility and now they won't to nerf it only thing that is good about this tank - it's gun

[twin egret]

Is it really an overbuff if the gun depression amount is historically accurate now i think

[candid steeple]

tiger I historically has 80-100 mm armor like old Tiger I in blitz. I mean. Do you understand how pointless your comment is?

[oak abyss]

R.I.P cent 1

[sturdy fractal]

Real question is why did they need to nerf the 263's dispersion from 0.304 to 0.374, it's ruined now

[golden turret]

The Obj. 263 was meant to be a frontline assault tank destroyer. However, it couldn’t really do that since it had a massive gun mantlet that could be penned by heavy prammo. So now that they’re buffing the HP, armor and traverse speed, the 263 will be able to play the role it was assigned in battle. The accuracy nerf balances out those buffs that the 263 received.

[sturdy fractal]

But that change will make it feel like a slightly better 183 gun, surely something similar to the rest of its line, like a value of 0.345 would be more appropriate, 0.374 just seems way too ambysal to justify any change

[rare sleet]

Don’t understand why people don’t know why the Maus is Super strong. It’s the combination strong armor with angling and the massive hit point pool with a great alpha that makes the tank superb. Nerfing the Mauses hitpoints does make sense because as it stands the Maus is super hard to kill, you may present the argument that Heat goes through with ease, and it definitely doesn’t go through with ‘Ease’ when Maus is angled properly. Compound that with the time to aim and the decrease Dpm of firing heat and the massive hit point pool, the Maus is not something to be messed with. Reducing its hitpoints does make sense actually but what I don’t understand is why nerf the gun when it already isn’t that great

[leaden flare]

do you all permanently fight top 8 players or how do you all assume that maus is so broken OP the players using maus right is like 2% off all maus players i see barely any maus toons from good players in my past 400 T x battles

in my clan which is fairly good on EU barely anyone thinks that maus is useful when playing it solo

[nimble zodiac]

That’s pretty funny, cuz the Top 8 players must be a big part of the Maus playerbase, considering it tops the chart

But then again chart could come from RU, where prammo isn’t exactly as popular

[simple patio]

dispersion nerf was not necessary especially when the gun is pretty troll anyway. Thats my issue with the maus nerf. If anything, it needs a track armour buff because its only 80mm of armour through the tracks! the vk 100 at tier 8 has 100mm and the mauschen at tier 9 has 120mm. How does it make sense that the maus can easily be penned with ap through the tracks when it angles like it should.

[full token]

The 183 has 0.43 something. The value for the Obj 263 of 0.374 is without any equipment or provisions. Imo the accuracy will be fine. The E100 for example has worse accuracy, if you want to get an idea of the sort of accuracy the 263 would have. But the 263 will be buffed to make it better at fighting closer to enemies, so the accuracy nerf will be less significant there

[sudden path]

Since the 263 is gonna be balanced as a yolo wagon now there is no reason for it to also be able to snipe
Actually play the tank the way the tank is supposed to be played and the rebalance will come out to be a buff

[thick rover]

What about aim time buff :>

[empty nexus]

I remember back in 2016 i read an article and the historic gun depression of T62a was 6 degrees(this was back when it had 5 degrees so everyone wanted it to have that extra degree, i come back to the game years later and holy quakc its got 8 degrees!!!) idk might be 7 but point still stands

[quasi axle]

doesn't it have 7

[golden turret]

The track armor is 80 mm sure but combine that with the actual side armor, which is 185. And the extra spaced armor on the sides

[lunar niche]

You can pen that 80mm armour from the front while the Maus is angled.

[golden turret]

That’s the TRACKS. The HULL is 185. So if you’re facing a maus at a flat angle, you’ll need to shoot through265 effective armor. If it’s angled, you’re never going through it.

[lunar niche]

Lower side hull is 80mm + 105mm spaced armour. Not sure where you got that 265mm at flat angle on Maus.

[distant river]

To go behind the tracks you need to hit a very small area, it's pennable but if it moves then you need pure rng to hit it and not get your shot absorbed by the tracks. The lower plate is significantly larger, as well as the cheeks being much more available than behind the tracks.

I'm not quite sure where this conversation started but the maus is in no need of any buff at all, and the nerf seems to be a decent step, definitely worth waiting and seeing how it performs after the next update.

(Oops the ss if for with HEAT, for standard ammo it's about double the size, but still much smaller than the lower plate or cheeks)

[sudden path]

^^ the maus track is only rng based in reality and really is only hit when the shot on the lower plate misses

[leaden flare]

I got penned way to often there

[simple patio]

Same with me. Embarrassing that a tier 8 can pen the track with ap even when you angle correctly. Ik its a small weakspot but just the fact its possible on tier X superheavy is unacceptable imo. Why does the tier IX mauschen get 120mm there but the tank above at tier X gets 80mm instead?

[jagged crescent]

i unironically aim for that spot in my 113 alot. Works like a charm

[distant river]

It gets 120mm+50mm tracks, whereas the maus gets 80mm+25mm tracks+100mm side skirt covering half of it. It's a small weak spot. If you want an impenetrable tank then you have no sense of balance at all. The maus is already an absolutely brilliant tank and imo a bigger nerf than the one it's getting is needed. For now it's a good step in the right direction.

[lethal drift]

im starting to think the rng in games is scripted to make for closer games, i hope not

[sudden path]

Yeah I guess but the maus is only op in the hands of a player who knows the angles
It's an extremely high skill ceiling with a fairly high skill floor

[twin egret]

T-62 historilly could depress the gun to -6°, add the fact that was with the 115mm, replacing it with the smaller 100mm would increase that number.

[fiery dagger]

Smaller gun doesnt automatically mean smaller gun breach...

[candid steeple]

Kranvagen historically could depress it's gun to -12 but in blitz its 9. So. Again WG doesn't care for what they change at this point. If you are looking for a historical game then go play War thunder. Wg long ago left their try to make it be close to historical after all those crazy buffs around most tiers in last 2 years.

[full token]

wasnt historical since 2014

[twin egret]

I think you're wrong, WG does care, Tiger II is now hisotrical