tank-balance-discussion

[unkempt quest]

i'm saying that to everyone, not just you

[inland quarry]

yes and its a waste of time to keep saying it, i want to talk about how these changes are bad and what would be better, not be told to repeatedly "leave the game if you dont like it " to my comments bruh by a moderator with no cooldown lol, thats another example of bad balancing fr 😂 , if you dont want to talk about it u dont have to man ill wait for someone who would, stop telling me to leave the game3

[runic jasper]

Is this the tank balance discussion or the leave the game if you don't like it discussion?

[unkempt quest]

again i'm simply saying that if you dislike the changes so much, the best course of action is to stop supporting the game. how do you do that? stop playing. easy as that. it's not my problem if you don't understand that.

if you truly dislike the changes you wouldn't continue playing

[queen geyser]

It is tank balance discussion but its also basically a meme channel for L takes, nothing here will be seen by a dev anyway, so its mostly just peope laughing at stupid takes

[unkempt quest]

devs do read this stuff

[stone drum]

Lol

[willow hawk]

But do they care enough? No. 😂

[waxen sorrel]

True , this channel for players to discuss their opinions on balance changes and tell what is better in their prespective as a player that experience the game, the player IS best way to tell the developer about what changes are good and what are bad because they care about the game and want to improve the whole experience, telling to leave the game is quite rude and not ideal response like if the moderator tells a old player that keeps playing to stop.

[civic topaz]

I’m asking about actual limitations as to why you’re unable to download it even if you wanted.

[stone drum]

Well like I said, first off its physically unavailable for download.

@civic topaz android

[civic topaz]

What platform are you on?

[inland quarry]

EXACTLY bro i already politely asked this dude to stop talking to me if thats all he'd say but oh well i guess its my problem he cant understand that; in response to his comment - the best course of action is to air out my criticisms in the balance discussion chat, not leave the game and let new players suffer the changes i think will negatively affect them the worst and let them suffer nonsense when the game could be very much improved, im good at the game i aint leaving after 9 years of playing since as a kid ive been dealing with bad patches, "if i truly dislike the changes you wouldnt keep playing" is just wrong, how is it supporting the game by deflecting every bit of criticism as "go cry about it and leave" thought this wasnt supposed to be a toxic game 🤣, (on a real note i aint ever leaving as long as i still enjoy wrecking tier 8 with my 53tp)

[runic jasper]

Well I think there's a huge balance issue. You have over 60 tier 10 tanks but you see 5-6 getting played 80% of the time. That alone should signal a balance problem.

[civic topaz]

Are you willing to download an application from somewhere else other than Google play store?

[stone drum]

I mean sure, but I'm still pretty sure as a government employee I can't download Russian or Chinese apps regardless.

[unkempt quest]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Qt2FRgXO3b4

[civic topaz]

Dont you have your own phone?

[runic jasper]

Speaking of tier 8, the SMV CC is down around 20th place on tier 8 win rate behind a ton of premium and collector tanks and yet it's getting a nerf? It and the Emil are the only OP tech tree tanks in the top 25. It looks as if tier 8 is definitely pay to win if there is a nerf.

[queen geyser]

Alot of dudes play the smv with the autoloader dragging down the stats

Also nerfing the smv comes in handy if u plan to sell a premium counterpart

[unkempt quest]

those winrate charts are very skewed you realise right?
premiums and collectors are far less widespread compared to tech tree tanks, which everyone can obtain.
plus the fact that stock vehicles exist, which is exclusive to the tech tree, will bring the statistics down.
it's very normal for prems and collectors to be performing better on paper, because on average they are

[rose ledge]

Man is-7 needs buff tbh

[stone drum]

I do, but until my contract is terminated and/or the material I am in possession of is removed, it's not really an option for me.

[inland quarry]

leave the game if you dont like it bro , exactly man like its not crazy talk what we're saying and to that mod @unkempt quest dude please stop being annoying and toxic by spamming that "leave the game" stuff" we dont want to keep hearing it and you provide 0 to the balance conversation....

[unkempt quest]

@inland quarry

[stone drum]

An unorganized boycott is like screaming at a brick wall.

[inland quarry]

yep i saw that, im not blind mate, stop being annoying and rude please 😂 no one wants to talk with someone like that who spams that, keep on doing you though i guess 😑 what do i know compared to the world of tanks discord moderator

[runic jasper]

Did I miss a comment where I said I didn't like something? I pointed out some data that showed a balance issue that might need to be corrected to IMPROVE the game.

[queen geyser]

Yea But like everybody knows that SMV with single shoot is literally op

Im surprised they didnt nerf it sooner

[inland quarry]

if you dont like anything about the game leave 🤪

[thorny timber]

but i do wish tds at t8 were just a bit more viable other than the wz 120-1

they coulda buffed the ts60 while they were at nerfing smv

hehe funni 152mm

[stone drum]

Give TS-60 a 152mm gun.

[runic jasper]

@thorny timber tier 8 is a good tier. I just think that they need some better tech tree tanks in there. I can afford to buy all the top tanks but what about the player who can't. More players can help the game.

[unkempt quest]

i never denied the criticism. you can criticize all you want, but if you actually mean what you say, then stop being a player

[thorny timber]

the thing is that t8 actually has more premium than tech trees, so its not that difficult to see why you'll see like 3 of them per match

[barren goblet]

T8 heavies just have too much HP for other classes to compete. There are some great meds and tds on t8 (more often premium than not), but general statement in that tier is heavy> anything else.

[inland quarry]

you chose to respond to my comments multiple times with just "stop playing if you dont like it" instead of anything about my actual comment thats called deflecting, regardless ive asked you multiple times to just stop talking to me if you have nothing useful to say, yet you here you are continuing lol, ive told u already im not going to stop playing so stop being toxic and continuing saying that

[unkempt quest]

you're the one showing more frustration about it. not my problem if you don't find what i have to say 'useful' for your standards

i'm simply giving you suggestions, never once did i force you to do things

[unreal pilot]

average blitz convo (tho balances can kill the game, let droodles balance things) disclosure thats a joke dont be mad or offense

[twin egret]

His balance changes are barely any better

[frosty niche]

Alright do u know what u are cooking here

[rocky sentinel]

I agree

[severe basin]

he isnt wrong what he suggested wasnt like miles better

[frosty niche]

Idrc as long as he doesn't think of changing the prog's gun- for me it is miles better 💪

[barren goblet]

You don't understand, progetto 65 is just normal balanced tank that isn't even played that much so it needs to be nerfed completely so no one uses it anymore 🤓

[rocky sentinel]

I just personally think reactive should not be given to any more tanks, and removed from the Ho Ri and 113GFT and all tanks with APCR standard should have AP. Ask skilled or ok player and they will most likely say the same thing.

[wet niche]

Is amx m4 good before balance?

[narrow raft]

E 100 can got buff?

[stone drum]

No.

[mild igloo]

why specificaly do you need apcr replaced with ap
i think it doesnt matter as long as numbers are balanced, the only difference is normalisation

[rocky sentinel]

I mean who likes APCR standard, it’s just a thing that would be nice

[unkempt quest]

it's one of many balancing factors

[stone drum]

That all to often makes a mediocre tank even worse to play.

Apcr should not just be outright worse than AP.

[unkempt quest]

on most cases it just is, it's how this game currently works. having every vehicle have APCR replaced with AP would break some things in terms of balance, since some tanks aren't supposed to be able to penetrate as much

[rocky sentinel]

I do understand it’s a balancing factor and it is effective. Wait, I just had a wonderful idea. 183 APCR standard it should happen

[stone drum]

That doesn't really justify APCR having zero advantages over AP.

Right now, it would be better to just remove APCR from the game & adjust penetration accordingly.

[lost crane]

Wasn’t APCR used to have more velocity and less pen loss over distances (in average) ?

[stone drum]

Kinda, and honestly something along those lines would be nice, so that APCR atleast had a Raison d'être.

[wicked quest]

Or give APCR a better stat like increased module damage or crew damage

[fickle shoal]

module damage you say? laughs in 60tp

[ember idol]

Used to be like that until WG forgets to make that consistent

[inland quarry]

i didnt say you were forcing me to do anything did I????, i just said stop suggesting and saying that same exact phrase of "jUsT lEavE tHe GaME" to me over and over again to evrything i was trying to say, and yet you still didnt listen, its not about useful or not, you're just being super toxic and ive asked you several times to stop

[unkempt quest]

it really wouldn't. it removes a core element of balancing related to penetration

[stone drum]

It literally does nothing that couldnt be better achieved by simply reducing nominal penetration.

[inland quarry]

it shouldnt fr but apparently if you dont like that you should leave the game and stop playing 🤪 , its a terrible excuse for "balancing" i agree but thats just my opinion, also w pfp

[unkempt quest]

then you don't understand the depth that goes into balancing

or just game mechanics for that matter

[stone drum]

yeah, I hate to inform you, but I have a very good grasp on game mechanics.

[wicked quest]

We just had a whole argument earlier why WG threw this out the window

[unborn whale]

So is wg going through with the balance changes?
I’d rather not have my chieftain mk 6 ruined, or my fv215b nerfed, the tanks literally only have the gun going for it

[dry compass]

@queen geyser applying for mod on this server aswell

Also the chief change can literally be done with another gun, why not do that?

[unreal pilot]

I think competitive players wouldnt love or like these changes that wg is doing.

Quote on quote: AP is better than apcr as standard shell

[unborn whale]

Along with no changes to grille…
The complaints of the player have time and time again been ignored

[dry compass]

Also are there actually no planned changes to wz 113 g ft and bat chat?

[waxen sorrel]

Nope, for me the best way to balance e100 is by decreasing the alpha for much better reload even quite better before the changes and buffing the front turret and not the turret ring by 5 mm, this lets the E100 be more agressive and better at facing tough situations , and those who think it doesn't need any changes , im E100 player for a long time and i know what is better for the tank.

[unreal pilot]

like we all get that apcr is “fastest” shell in the game, but its one of Worst Shells to be using and it doesnt balance the game, the changes also r unbalanced regrading this as im also competitve player from NA, theses changes that everyone currently seeing is unbalance and not nesscary buffs fact…that E-50M is already one of best med tanks in T10 and giving it more buffs.

let the community have the rights to speak about the changes (not in rude way)

At least nerf the WZ-113G FT’s armor profile and traverse nerf too,

Example of good balance:
Grille 15

650 alpha
2+ gun depression
0.5+ aim time
Camo increase by 5/7/3
gun depersion 0.021+
speed nerf by 3

[unborn whale]

If there aren’t, we are screwed
Along with the changes to the e50m, game will just become a yolo fest, and tanks that rely on their gun like 215b ht, Leo 1, etc will be obsolete

[queen geyser]

What

[dry compass]

[waxen sorrel]

Speaking of WZ, wz113 needs to have its old gun back , the AP shells and the 420 alpha thats what the tank was all about DPM

[unreal pilot]

and way to balance the cheiftain too

Keep the changes but give it secondary gun (hesh gun)

[unkempt quest]

you want the grille to be the best tank in the game or something?

[dry compass]

honestly, i have no idea how you would unfix the grille 15

[unborn whale]

The tank is already one of the worst performing tds. Give its its 640 alpha back.

[unkempt quest]

what are you on, the current grille is amazing

[unreal pilot]

technically i never said that but okay?
It will be at least better than what we got right now, pretty horrible tank, best to give it 650 alpha since why having such long big gun to do small amounts of damage as 155mm gun

1.5+ reload btw to fairly balance it out to be AT LEAST one good Tank destroyer

Is-4: make it have 2650 hp
30+ mm of armor
0.4+ reload
speed increase by 2 or 3
Nerf traverse
heat pen decrease by 10

Grille is currently poor performing tank, ask someone here right now

Grille with 47% wr as the worst performing tank with barely 2k average damage

[waxen sorrel]

Grille and its line got nerfed to the ground , "the best tank in the game" is an overstatement ,the grille just needs the 640 alpha that just it No crazy armor No crazy mobility just the 640 alpha.

[rocky sentinel]

I find it a little funny that the E100 and the grill feature the same gun size yet the E100 as a heavy features 100 more damage. So what if we switch that damage per shot but the E100 features the old 640. But the grill features 2600 DPM and a bit less camo. And the E100’s armor on the turret gets buffed by 5mm

[queen geyser]

Good thing the E100 and Grill have the same accuracy

[unkempt quest]

lol it really doesn't

[unborn whale]

???
You should be asking yourself that question when the hori exists

[unreal pilot]

This is like…mrbeast drama but wg version about the changes

Grille: bad version of hori (poor)
Hori: best version of Grille (best)

@unkempt quest the stats dont matter, hori still wins that since grille has bad gun handling than hori

That stupidest reponese hori performs better than damn grille

[unkempt quest]

'better grille' huh?

and realistically the ho ri is gonna be firing prammo because it's a ho ri

[unkempt quest]

then don't move while shooting

[narrow raft]

im a player E100 for 2 years i can considere your idea worthit but change the alpha not good idea only 30 or 50 its worth it but more no

[unkempt quest]

the grille is an awesome sniper tank that can relocate quite easily

[waxen sorrel]

Armor on hori exists🤣?

Armor is ofc A downside for the balance of the tank and my total research of the grille stats history the old grille is better than the current, and the grille is very diffrent from the hori

[unkempt quest]

plus the huge gun arc makes it rather flexible

you don't need armor

you have an accurate gun with great pen, good alpha and a fast reload

[unborn whale]

Look at the on movement dispersion values and the armor. I also find it really I interesting that you didn’t show the winrates of the tanks. I’ll enlighten you and post them

[unkempt quest]

because those don't matter. we're talking about raw tank stats

[stone drum]

580 isnt small, lol

[gleaming apex]

xuanmai123to was banned.

[unreal pilot]

ya bro? Look at the 183, WZ, maybe even e3 and you call the grille “amazing tank”

Thats is just depressiing to hear unfortunte getting told the truth by 17 yr old

Grilles gun is one of the worst GUNS in Tier 10

(580 feels like 560 alpha)

Facts @unborn whale

[unborn whale]

You’re telling me that raw tank stats on paper are more effective at showing how tanks perform than their winrates in actual battle? We are talking about the average players performing in these tanks. It’s like saying the leopard 1 is better for the average player than the e50 m simply because it has better stats on paper. You have to consider other stats that aren’t on paper like armor, and look at the winrate to truely assess if the tank is good or not. Not to mention that the hori has better on movement stats on paper anyways.

[prisma jetty]

One thing that could make APCR somewhat interesting is chaging it's autobounce angle to something like 75 degrees, or even 80 if we're feeling daring. This would make some autobounce angles on lightly armored vehicles not so effective against APCR without making the shell absurdly strong

[stone drum]

I honestly want to see grille get 60/20kph top speed with just abit more dpm.

@h.f.f if grille has the worst gun at tier X, if we put the grilles exact gun onto say the IS-7 it would make it worse?

Someone give @prisma jetty a medal & a promotion to brigadier general.

[sharp jacinth]

?

[unreal pilot]

hmm on is-7 it might do same results as grille but slightly better since ur armored tank and grille isnt lol

i mean grille used to go 60 til they nerf it

AP: best standard shell (i do not care what people say about apcr as standard shell)

“It will not balance people penning shots more” and? It makes it fun and more interesting

mle buffs/nerfs AS example (my way)

AP standard (Apcr -> AP)
-0.034 gun depresion
Reactive and 12+mm of hull armor
Traverse speed nerf and Heat nerf pen (-12)

Even Youtubers such as pete, droodles, Probably oldschool, flossie, 34 and more dont like these changes sir

[unkempt quest]

just because it feels that way doesn't mean it is. yor bad experience in the tank doesn't make the tank bad.
i've had a bad experience with the current stb. is it a bad tank? no

the grille does its job perfectly fine, being an accurate consistent and fast sniper tank that can relocate when necessary

[unkempt quest]

there goes a lot more into saying a tank is good or bad. both tanks are fine. and both the ho ri and grille are good tanks. they have different roles and they perform their jobs just fine

[unreal pilot]

:l as top competitive player playing the grille, it still misses the shots with and without aim reticle, bad gun depersion

The tank is bad

Even the Tier 9 Waffle can do better than the Grille :I seems embarassing to see grille perform worse than Tier 9 Waffle

another good example of change:

Maus
3200 HP (3000 to 3200)
nerf turret traverse
speed increase by 2
apcr buff by 9+
Armor hull buff by +17mm
Cheeks nerf by 19-

Reload increase 0.7+
But we’ll make alpha do instead of 460 it’ll be 480

[stone drum]

Um, why on earth would you nerf AMX m4 Mle. 54 Traverse... its already terrible.

It literally just needs a terrain resistance buff, AP standard, and a better upperplate.

[unkempt quest]

sounds like you just can't play the grille properly.
and those maus changes are absurd. it's already tanky enough as is, why make it more tanky and faster?
it doesn't need pen nor alpha, it's not a damage dealer.
hull buff? what are you buffing, the lower plate?

[unborn whale]

You just completely ignored my argument. And no, they don’t have different roles. The hori just has more roles. The hori fulfills every single time of the grille better.

[unkempt quest]

also the current HP of the maus is 2850 not 3000

[unkempt quest]

it doesn't

the grille is far more flexible and accurate, also being faster and hitting harder

[unreal pilot]

have you played the mle since the changes (its pretty fast rn)

@unkempt quest absurd? Its like your yapping about grille being best tho im in vc with top players from professional tournys and they say that grille is worst tank ever

Its meant to be glass cannon

[unkempt quest]

i stand by my point

[stone drum]

I have extensively played Mle. And I hate to inform you, but it isn't a fast tank, infact it actually has below average traverse on medium terrain, and mediocre acceleration.

[unborn whale]

Really? More penetration for sniping, arguably the same accuracy, in fact maybe better because the reticle doesn’t bloom out 5X when you’re turning the tank. FLEXIBILITY???? What are you cooking? the hori is almost as mobile, can literally second line because of its armor, has better traverse speed??? “Hitting harder” wow 20 damage omg

Agreeing with @unreal pilot , what point do you stand by? You have no basis for argumentation, and your evidence is basically “trust me bro grille is good”

And in response to the argument about the Maus, have you send that things upper plate? I can literally pen it with standard in many tds

[unreal pilot]

uh huh sir….

@unkempt quest whats the point? Ask javi, Pafy or anybody from top players and they’ll say same thing

Heres video of mles traverse and its hella fast :I ig you never expert enough in the mle 🤭

@stone drum its slightly same results expect soft terrain

[stone drum]

Your literally showing it on hard terrain, take it onto medium terrain and it looses all of its mobility.

You literally don't know what your talking about.

[unkempt quest]

the grille has better traverse speed, you're wrong there.
usually a ho ri is firing prammo, 545 to 580 is apparently a big enough different just like the 600 to 580 difference to the grille last time so saying it's not a big deal is simply wrong.

the grille has a bar larger gun arc, resulting in way more flexibility. it can make use of its camo better for instance. it has incredible accuracy, good reload and the penetration to deal damage consistently.
a good player can also frontline with a grille if they know what they're doing, sometimes even better than a ho ri because of the aformentioned flexibility.

i'm not saying the ho ri is bad, it's a great point click adventure tank, but the grille is not an inferior version of it

[stone drum]

that's not "soft terrain", almost 85% of most maps are medium terrain, using hard terrain stats to present the mobility of vehicles is ignorant at best, and subversive at worst.

[unreal pilot]

:l you just covering it up to hide the grilles bad history,

Grille cons:
Bad gun
Misses lot (even when fully aimmed)
Low rolls lot (mid 500s)
And its always loses against reactive armor tanks

Hori cons: bit slow
Gun arc is kinda bad but mid
Speed is ok

You talking to professional player 🤫

[unkempt quest]

who you are doesn't matter to me.

your bad experience in the tank doesn't equal the tank being bad

[sharp jacinth]

thqt map has a big lag spike for me idk why

[unreal pilot]

yeah bro? Go play few and i wanna see

[stone drum]

Pbr most likely.

Normally I don't always agree with AproffessorA, but your just embarrassing yourself at this point ":p"

[unborn whale]

I have 4 arguments against this.
First off, no. Horis don’t usually fire prammo simply because the standard ap pen is already more than enough, so that’s already untrue. The difference between 560 and 580 alpha is already very minimal. The reason why the grille change from 600 alpha to 580 felt so big is because the tank originally had 640. Essentially, by needing the alpha by 20, the feeling of the alpha being reduced is exacerbated, making 20 alpha feel like “a lot.” The difference with the hori is players are already used to 560 alpha, so the difference with 580 is not comparable.

Second, larger gun arc does not necessarily relate to more flexibility. Though you may expose your tank less, your tank still has 0 armor. Players can still preaim whatever corner you’re looking and shoot at you and pen nearly every time, this probability is greatly reduced in the hori. Also, it can’t utilize its camo better simply because it has less of a camo rating to begin with. Did I forget to mention that the hori has some of the best camo rating in the game? Such a shame that the hori can, idk, maybe utilize its camo more effectively? In response to incredible accuracy and good reload, the two tanks have essentially the same reload, so this is negligible. “Incredible accuracy” sure, while sitting still. Mind you simply rotating the turret of the tank increases it’s bloom by .16. The grille has some of the worse dispersion values when rotating, moving, or rotating turret. How many situations are you going to have not moving a single aspect of the tank?

3rd, front lining in a grille. Don’t know if this sounds absurd to you, but it sure does to me. The most a skilled player can do is simply second line. And no, I have already proven it’s jot more flexible. I’d like to see a grille frontline better than a hori. Combined with the fact it literally has way less camo rating, and you’re basically begging to be shot at. I’m not finished yet and have run out of room so hold up

@unkempt quest Going off of my 3rd point, sure, you CAN second line in a grille, but who would rather not do that in a hori?

Fourth, I think I’ve given enough evidence to show you that the grille is far inferior to the hori. I don’t know what else I need to say. If you want me to prove to you that the hori is better even more, just pull up the winrates. You still have ignored my argument on that so it still stands. The grille is just simply worse, accept the fact.

Yes I may seem like a no life typing this wall of text but the argument that the grille isn’t inferior to the hori and better in some places is just simply absurd.

[unreal pilot]

bro smoked them heheheh

[unborn whale]

Oh boy here comes the rebuttal 🙄

[sharp jacinth]

most other maps work perfectly fine tho

[unkempt quest]

1. who doesn't load full prammo in the ho ri? the drawback (losing 15 alpha) is neglegible and will only matter in very specific cases.
   as for the nerf from 600 to 580, it gained DPM by a big reload buff and some pen buffs, plus more mobility. i'd say it overall got buffed, even if you dislike the alpha loss. the reload helps a lot.
   while the change from 640 to 600 is more noticable, it's still only a 6% nerf, while receiving other buffs like huge pen. the overall changes lead me to believe the grille was made better.

2. larger gun arc does mean more flexibility. you have to traverse far less often, letting you utilise stationary camo more reliably, especially camo net. sure the ho ri has better camo, but according to you you're frontlining with the tank, so that doesn't matter. as a sniper it may have better camo but every time it traverses that camo gets worse. you'll effectively have 50% camo if you run camo net, which you should, which is worse than the 59% stationary from the grille.
   the grille has .5 better base dispersion. sure the dispersion factors are bad, but you have a far better aim time, plus the option to run reticle calibration, buffing both aim time and dispersion by quite a bit. so yes, it does have incredible accuracy.
   the ho ri may be more consistent, but the grille will fire more accurate shots while in position, which it is most of the time.

3. have you never seen a frontline grille? you're missing out. again the big gun arc lets it be more flexible since it doesn't rely on its traverse speed as much, plus the gun is mounted on the rear, it doesn't have to expose as much. the camo rating doesn't matter in a frontline scenario.
   what tank you'd rather use depends on what you're trying to achieve. the grille is far better long range for example while the ho ri is better second line.

4. you haven't. and if you have then i have as well. you can't deny the usefulness of the grille. the winrates of others don't matter in our argument. the grille and ho ri both have their place and neither one is an inferior or surperior version of the other. stating the grille is simply worse is not a fact, just your opinion

[unreal pilot]

https://tenor.com/view/touching-grass-touch-gif-21219969

[stone drum]

Honestly, I personally would like to see the grille get abit more reverse speed, to allow it to play more aggressive.

[wicked quest]

Ftr this guys argument against smasher is “well I’ve never had an issue with it” his opinions and arguments hold very little credibility

[shrewd hatch]

what everyone in this channel needs to do:

[unborn whale]

Since I’m too tired to respond to this since it’s just back and forth (I have class), and, frankly because Wargaming will never buff the grille, I’ll just respond to your last point. I don’t care what you say about winrates not mattering, they do. It’s like saying a 30% is just as good a player with a 70%. Don’t know how many times I have to repeat this, but the performance of a tank and how good of it is in a direct relationship with its winrate, average damage, etc. since the hori is doing more average damage than the grille, it’s hitting more shots. Maybe the tanks better. But what do I know, performance stats don’t matter and only only on paper stats do.
Lastly, the grille is practically useless, it’s not just my opinion, it’s basically the opinion of the whole player base. Many ccs have said so. The grille is just simply worse. If there’s no way we can settle this, maybe we can have a poll in the server on winrates and the grille being inferior.

And yes, I do touch grass

[dapper zenith]

hahaha it didn't even dawn on me to bring full prammo, you're right the difference is minimal, i always brought a healthy amount of prammo anyway and wasn't afraid to switch when needed but ya why not take full and don't have to switch

[unkempt quest]

wargaming literally confirmed that the grille will get buffed next patch

[unkempt quest]

same goes for the stb: 10 damage doesn't matter in 99% of cases.
the type 71 will get the same treatment if the leaked balance changes go through

[tough shell]

Why would anybody play the grille lmao? We ain't in 2019 anymore 😂

[clear shuttle]

frontlining the grille only gets you so far

[shrewd hatch]

10 damage doesnt matter lmao real so real…

[unborn whale]

That’s not the main point. How about we have a poll? I’d be excited to see the results. If not, you’re proving my point that the grille is inferior.

(Also looking at your stats on blitzstars, you perform better in the hori than the grille)

[dapper zenith]

the gun handling on the grille right now is insane, if you stack it with he right equipment you can pick what pixel you want to hit, im excited to see what they buff, hopefully keeping its handling stats

[waxen fable]

Bro, the Sheridan missile's guidance is crazy for Big boss
But it's sad they don't have it in skirmish, but I know the reason why

[unkempt quest]

not having a poll doesn't mean anything. plus we don't allow polls here anyway

wouldn't me having better performance in the ho ri, yet saying i like the grille prove my point further?

[unborn whale]

All you’re proving is that you like tanks you perform worse in lol. Just because you like a tank doesn’t mean it’s better. Face it, your performance in the hori, even though you don’t like it as much as the grille, shows that the hori is far superior

[clear shuttle]

lets see if wargaming reduce the alpha to 560 but shave a whole second off its reload

[unreal pilot]

https://tenor.com/view/flightreacts-cringe-gif-19831193

[frank bone]

Saying grille is better then hori, is basicly saying that cs63 is better then leo.

[unborn whale]

“Guys we buffed the grilles dpm”

[unkempt quest]

i prefer my grille still.
pretty sure i also have a couple more games in the grille, idk really i don't look at my stats

[unreal pilot]

nah your grille is booty, im sorry but everyone will agree me on that we need grill buff (alpha, mobilty)

[stone drum]

Obviously we need a grille with 980 alpha damage per shot.

[frank bone]

Ye i also see that grille is better then ho ri on these charts

[waxen sorrel]

Agreed

[unreal pilot]

ong according to Professor

[frank bone]

Is this sarcasm or not? Maybe you should search "what relative wr means".

[unborn whale]

Skilled players still perform worse .

[twin egret]

<@&481447501690568709> kill. ^^^

[unborn whale]

<@&481447501690568709>

[gleaming apex]

xswnjo was banned.

[unborn whale]

It’s on the website, check the stats for 65% and above

[quasi cloak]

Looks like somebody got nuked for 1300 lol

[frosty niche]

It's getting armour (the 215b heavy)

[frosty niche]

Wdym mean 'basically using prammo'? Do you spam prammo' on the stb? 20 damage is 20 damage- why would u waste that? And if you do use prammo, u are guaranteeing penning nearly everything- remember prammo HAS MORE PEN, not just less alpha...

Plus you might've actually been right about the grille being better IF IT HAD CAMO- honestly u get spotted across the map and get nuked- heck in this situation just run a 268. Plus the E4 is just a grille with armour and alpha- as a grille user I'm glad it's getting a buff next update; I actually really enjoy the grille, but it's not a tank for winning

[muted rampart]

Because for all shots that RNG makes you dirty with because you didn't fire gold and bounce off, 10 damage won't make up.

Just go full prammo on STB, it won't cost you more than 300 damage per game (and that is in a very good game when you take 30 shots) and only fire normal AP if you aren't sure that you will get a roll high enough to finish enemy off

[frosty niche]

Now this is the epitome of stupid- the idea is that you shoot standard and IF U NEED TO, then u use prammo

Lol M8 do you only shoot one shots the whole game 😂
Shoot prammo for that idrc
300 dmg is 300 dmg- It could be the difference between 4.7k and 5k

Plus, do you know what dpm means

And did anyone mention the sheer cost in silver to run prammo only?

[modern heart]

pietrek is correct here. sacrificing 10 damage by shooting STB premium is absolutely worth avoiding the risk of bouncing a standard shot (which sacrifices 330 damage)

[muted rampart]

No, this is idea for a normal tank.

I have enough credits and those 300 damage i don't really mind, so I go full gold and use standard AP only to make sure i finish the guy off if he has like 320 HP.

The difference between 4,7k and 5k isn't that high and that is only considering you pen each shot with AP and it's not a rare thing to bounce because shell went not where you intended it to go.

I know what DPM means, but the difference between gold and standard is basically non-existant.

WG balanced Japanese tanks in a specific way, to make you shoot gold on them for some reason.

[frosty niche]

As we can see here, Droodles with all the silver in the world doesn't run prammo only.

See any other skilled player in the stb for that 😂

In terms of skill, let's check hisroyalfatness then 🤨😅 OH WAIT HE RUNS 30 STANDARD AND 15 PRAMMO

[twin egret]

I'd rather shoot prammo rounds to guarantee a pen if the armor layout on a tank is iffy with regular ammo. It's only a 35 damage difference between the Premium round and the regular round on the Ho-Ri. But if I can see a situation where a regular round can easily pen a tank, I'd shoot the regular round instead and get that 35 more damage. The small amount of damage difference goes a long way late-game either sometimes or half of the time.

Credit cost is irrelevant at tier 10, since playing tier 10 is just either playing to lose credits most of the time, or only earn like 5k-10k. You're playing tier 10 for satisfaction, not for credit grinding, so you'd go typically go all out, unless you're playing some collector tank other than an M60 or Chieftain (unless you bought your M60 from that time when it was on sale last year and had a different coefficient 😂 )

[patent helm]

u dont lose Credits using prammo as main ammo in tier x if ur above average, even on a loss
(on low dpm tanks its prolly even better but talking abt meds)

[empty lagoon]

not just credits either, if the ammo is hesh or apcr you cant track shot them or you will get 0 damage 8/10 times so you actually gotta decide whats best

[muted rampart]

When I play ranked for example I don't really care about the cost, I want my tank to be effective. And prammo here is much more effective. It doesn't lose nearly any damage, for much greater pen

If I want to earn silver, I go to play a T8 premium, preferably on a fun mode, not a T10 tech tree tank.

And please, don't bring up some youtubers into this discussion, whatever they do is up to them, which is irrelevant.

I know many super unicum players that go full prammo on STB. Is it relevant for the discussion in any way? Not at all.

[modern heart]

if you are relying on Drood's loadout to support your argument, you've already lost.

do some thinking. if you bounce 1 shell with standard AP, you lose out on 330 damage. since the difference of alpha is 10, it will take you 33 more penetrations to make up that lost damage, versus shooting gold and penning all your shots

if you are poor on credits, that's just your own problem

[frosty niche]

Suit urself ig go kiss ur loss of only 10dmg 😂 doesn't affect me so I'm gonna stop

Just saying tho, u are assuming that prammo= guaranteed pen

315mm isn't exactly butter

[twin egret]

But in this case in my msg it's specifically catered towards the Ho-Ri, not every tank in general. and wdym by track shot? If you're trying to track a tank and also damage them apcr or ap works fine. APCR with it's higher pen does well in tackling e 100 tracks or on any tank with very rigid tracks for that matter. Tracks are weird in wotb

[empty lagoon]

shooting prammo at anything that isnt at the front of a heavy or tank destroyer is a complete throw and your trolling if you do that. the damage adds up very quickly because minus 30-40 damage a shot in 10 shots is equal to 2 extra penetrating shots that can kill or get someone low.

[modern heart]

exactly. a loss of "only 10dmg", and a gain of 55 penetration. losing 3% of your alpha and gaining 22% penetration is absolutely worth it. every day of the week, every single shell, every time. if you pen 22% more of your shots with gold you're earning a ton of damage back that you left on the table by bouncing standard shells

@empty lagoon what? 10 damage does not add up quickly at all. 10 shots penetrated per game is only 100 extra damage for a lot of extra effort. i doubt you are averaging much more than 10 shots per game for it to make a difference

to be clear i am talking STB-1 which only loses 10 alpha damage for gold.

[empty lagoon]

1st of all, youre heavily biasing your argument by assuming youre bouncing all your non gold shots which isnt a fair argument, any real decent player can hit weakpoints on any tank that isnt on a ridgeline and isnt an e100 just fine. Secondly, this is also assuming you dont also bounce any shots with premium by hitting tracks or shooting the front of an e5 or foch or sumn trying to hit a weakpoint. Also different shells have different properties liek snipiung with apcr loses much more pen over distance than AP and will be eaten up by tracks a lot more often same with hesh. STB-1 can easily get into the 15 shot range on average per match since its guns fire much faster than other heavy weapons so it will add up

[twin egret]

HEAT and HESH are more situational than AP/APCR because they explode upon hitting any kind of obstacle/armor. HESH or HE is superb at tracking tanks because of its higher module damage while typically dealing no damage in HP. HEAT is trash in dealing with tracks.

[modern heart]

i am not assuming that at all, you are mischaracterizing my statements. i said that if you pen even one more shot by spamming gold, you have made up for all the lost damage from bouncing one standard shell.

please read again and reformulate your statement.

[spring folio]

34 isnt assuming you're bouncing all non-gold shots though? he saying that you might as well load gold bcs even one bounced shot costs 330dmg instead of 10 per shot

nvm 34 responded before me lmao

[patent helm]

u dont need to aim for weakspots when using prammo thats the whole Point
the chances of not penning due to weakspot shenanigans are lower with prammo in the first place

[frosty niche]

Mate st*u- respectfully idrc...do u know how to read

Alright I'm going- can't stand arguing this nonsense

[muted rampart]

[waxen sorrel]

Idk how this chat became a reddit/twitter battlefield😅

[modern heart]

do you just write off anything you disagree with as nonsense and the "epitome of stupid" as you said earlier? or do you have something actually thoughtful to add to the discussion?

[patent helm]

this discussion has been brought to you by "big heavy"

[twin egret]

bro 😭 just cuz you lost the argument doesn't mean you have to be rude
It's not that hard either to take a moment, put yourself in his shoes, and say out what you disagree or are confused with what you see

[frosty niche]

Oh my lord can we agree to disagree- what is stupid for me might not be for you

M8 touch grass and lighten up 🥲

I sincerely regret messaging in this channel

[urban hull]

gimme bobux!!

[spring folio]

then stop

its not like any of us asked you to give your (respectfully) sh!t opinion

[willow hawk]

I’m confused as to why this is even an argument. You clearly laid out the math. Anyone who can’t see that has a personal problem. 👍

[modern heart]

the language you use is hostile and doesn't suggest you want to peacefully disagree. you'd rather throw insults than articulate your point

the person who needs to lighten up here isn't me. but i'm happy to end this convo here 👋

[frosty niche]

I have I am only replying when somebody is replying to me lol

I don't really want to leave u guys hanging with some next gen insult waiting to be shot at me

As u can see, I have stopped talking about this topic for the past few messages, so suit urself

If u all are still arguing, it's because u are taking a video game too personally. I will admit so did I for a minute 😅, so I am sorry for that lol

[spring folio]

you can stop anytime

the fact that you bothered to respond to me shows me you are for whatever reason still hung up on this topic

just log off discord at this point lol

[clear shuttle]

a very easy fix is to load half ap half premium

[modern heart]

i think i run 15-30-5 or something along those lines. i'll shoot standard at light tanks and stuff, but if there's any chance of bouncing i will switch to gold AP without a second thought

[willow hawk]

Interesting, I might start doing that for a few of my tanks. I usually run 20-10-5 layouts

[twin egret]

0/46/4 on my stb

[modern heart]

for most tanks i would say keep a normal layout, but for tanks with minimal gold alpha-drop, like STB and Ho-Ri, i would 100% recommend carrying majority gold. there's basically no risk

[dry compass]

there is such little difference in damage when running prammo on stb instead of standard for so much more pen that I only use standard shells when Im 100% certain I will pen something that I cant pen with HE

Also you guys shouldn't base your opinion on someones else's choices, base it on your own experience, if you play stb with more standard than prammo, thats fine

I just dont see the point, 330 and 320 is basically the same

[twin egret]

And Type 71 if WG goes with the proposed changes. Atp the ammo loadout for Japanese tier 10's is the same as the ISU-130's, except in reverse for AP

Your premium shells are your regular rounds and your regular rounds are just there, existing, and only do a bit more damage

[stone drum]

With premium, you really aren't bouncing a foch, if you are, you are simply garbage.

[modern heart]

100%, nothing wrong with disagreeing. but calling someone stupid and their ideas nonsense is the worst way to go about making a point

[dry compass]

aiming at weakspots isnt a problem, hitting it is heavily depended on rng, prammo makes you less dependend on rng and with only 10 damage loss, it's a no brainer to just shoot prammo and not think about rng making you miss

[stone drum]

What's your take on using majority prammo on say Foch 155, given although it only loses 20 alpha, their are more trade-offs between its standard & premium ammunition.

[dapper zenith]

its only debatable if the ammo choices are the same, i

[dry compass]

foch's ammo has different types between standard and prammo, standard ammo might do something that the prammo cant, like go thru obstacles, stb has ap and ap so the prammo shell is just the same but better,

[unreal pilot]

holy frick just shut up and rebalance the changes

And nice…uhh editing the yt quest backgrounds..wg the wr is pretty off

[stone drum]

Nah, its definitely still debatable given foch gains over 100mm of penetration on it's premium rounds.

@dapper zenith which is again, precisely why it is debatable 🤡

[dapper zenith]

yes but its heat for prammo on both guns, you don't always want to spit heat

[dry compass]

even if you have 800 mm of heat pen, a 100 mm ap will still go thru a wall and the heat will not

[stone drum]

🤦‍♂️

[muted rampart]

That's what I do, but I keep way more standard ammo percentagewise than on STB, since in some situations I would rather have AP than HEAT

[solemn matrix]

if your unadorned penetration is high，for example，t110e4 has 365 apcr before，apcr is better than heat.you don't need to increase penetration，so you can increase your dpm.if your unadorned penetration is low，for example，wz111-5a has 303 heat and is7 has 303 apcr，they all need increase penetration，so heat is better than apcr

333 heat is better than 318apcr，the standard is e100 face

[muted rampart]

IS-7 no longer has 303 APCR, it has 320 since the last rebalance

[modern heart]

similar but not as extreme. maybe half and half

[inland quarry]

am i the only one who runs gun rammer on all my tanks, #skillissue aim better

[barren goblet]

After calibrated shells buff and rammer nerf, probably. Heat buff is too good to not use it

[stone drum]

Nice, I personally tend to use the APCR for snap shots & long range shots where that extra velocity will factor in.

[willow hawk]

Uh…I don’t think that’s what APCR is for. APCR is intended for close engagements. APCR suffers from higher penetration loss over distance, and higher tendency to bounce.

[modern heart]

APCR has high shell velocity and is much easier to use at long range

[stone drum]

I'm talking about specifically the fochs apcr

[fickle shoal]

me running 25/20/(however much is left for HE) on all my japanese tanks 🗿

[willow hawk]

👍

[frigid sapphire]

What is HE?

[Japan mains in the future]

[wicked quest]

If your velocity is over 1400 or 1300 with APCR your round travels so fast the distance loss pretty much doesn’t take effect ingame

[hearty elbow]

When is the new update coming in?

[prisma jetty]

What does that have to do with tank balance?

@scenic olive your hypocrisy astounds me.

[scenic olive]

What does this have to do with tank balance?

@prisma jetty What does this have to do with tank balance?

[fickle shoal]

the true question is why does type 71 have the least amount of ammo despite being the biggest t10 jp tank? it carries 2 less than hori and stb

[frigid sapphire]

The spare ones gets compressed to the furthest point where they become micro-sized blackholes which is then applied to the frontal tracks for further protection.

[fickle shoal]

very reasonable

[willow hawk]

I learn something new everyday

[molten cosmos]

they can shift the meta without implementing pointless changes like nerfing leo and 30b into oblivion while promoting noskill hulldown gameplay by overbuffing e50m... why kill the 2 most skill demanding mediums when they are among the worst performing tanks since nobody knows how to play them? not to mention the fact that the 30B just got buffed recently and is by no means OP, just like the leo

[willow hawk]

WG needs to remember that this may be their game, but it’s for the players.

If WG is making this game for themselves, then they can have it. Cancel the balance changes. Otherwise, it is very easy for me to abstain from playing. They’ve already made it easy for me to abstain from making voluntary micro transactions. Let’s see WG push it further.

[lost crane]

And players need to remember that as long as there are enough players to keep playing, all individual actions like this have no effect. WG don’t care if they loose 1 players, if you want to do something, try to create a group action, because « change something or I’m leaving » is the most useless thing to say against such a big company.

[willow hawk]

@lost crane acknowledged that already. But it worked once with SBMM, where less players played during SBMM, so WG was forced to revert the change. It’s just the matter of player determination.

[lost crane]

Idk, because imo, only few changes are problematic, and many are interesting, and I don’t think many players will follow for few changes

Btw, I’ve seen the droodles’ proposition, and they are not really better, and imo, less interesting

[willow hawk]

By all means, no one is stopping you from playing. No one is stopping anyone from doing so. I made my personal decision to stop, and it only benefits me.
But as long as people continue playing, it’s a green light for WG to do whatever they please.

[solemn matrix]

i said that the last version is7

[tulip fog]

i think wg should give every t10 tanks more hp because every single tank have high alpha dmg or high dpm so they can easily delete lots of hp and the game end very fast

[umbral totem]

I think VK 90.01 (P) hp should be buffed from 2450 to 2600

[tough trout]

Of course, because this tank, obviously, underperforms…

[umbral totem]

And the AP alpha from 460 to 510, the APCR alpha from 390 to 420... and maybe reload to 16 seconds. Yes it does underperform

[clear shuttle]

obviously...

[tough trout]

I think it also needs 340 premium pen, minimum. That might make it kind of workable.

[umbral totem]

people say it has OP pen but i cant even penetrate a wz 113 g ft on the front (nowhere, not even hatches) at least if i cant see its lower plate

they are so small yes i am serious

[ember idol]

Can't tell if this is serious or sarcasm anymore lol

[tough trout]

I am sorry, but how long have you been playing this game? You might consider 90.01 op or not, that’s up to you. But if you just take a look at the tank’s statistics, you will be able to see, that, generally speaking, it performs quite well. Of course, it has some downsides, like being not very fast, and having not good premiums pen. And , yes, the armour of113 gft is pretty crazy, unless you can hit its lower plate, or sides.

[umbral totem]

I know that it performs well, but if you consider the buffing of other tanks, the vk 90 basically becomes worse. WG is nerfing some aspects of it, while buffing other tanks that are already great like 183 and e50m

[remote sluice]

183 sucks

[tough shell]

You lot are acting like the Vk90 losing 2 degree of turret traverse speed is the end of the world, its laughable 😂

And if anything, its getting a buff, the reduction in aiming time is gonna be so much more impactful than the tiny bit of mobility loss

[prisma jetty]

The reduction in aimtime really won’t affect it considering it has combat stabs which it’s in most of the time anyways. The traverse hurts it way more considering it’s traverse is already on the low end

[tough shell]

Yea right because when Im turning my tank Im only moving my turret while keeping my hull static 😂😂😂

[prisma jetty]

Combat stabs makes it so you don’t bloom at all, meaning the aim time doesn’t really matter for the VK 90

[tough shell]

It will still allow you to get more shots in, however few they may be
A 10% traverse mobility nerf that doesnt even affect the hull but only the turret, on an heavy on top of that, will virtually have no impact on your perfomances 🤷

[quaint elk]

The side armor of CC1 mk2 shoud be 90mm, not 45. (Not on game data, but on the armor display)
3 Calibre Rule should have let the 155mm gun penetrate it, but it bounced off.

[grave topaz]

is it worth selling is 7 and buy e 100? (in is 7 i have 100crew)

[cinder shard]

Don't sell tech tree T10s for another tech tree T10
You just loose credits

[grave hornet]

never sell tanks, the is7 is generaly a wayyy too good vehicle to even consider selling it

[short stratus]

@brisk cedar hi fan of your game but i want to know what time for a event in croatia aka in GMT+2?

[grave topaz]

okay thanks

[olive ridge]

@tough trout
90.01 is outdated, times when people played heavy vs heavy passed. Vk performs good only in quick tournaments and not in 1x1 because if your opponent will take some bc25t you're doomed. Yes it has armor, yes cannon accuracy is good but it's all that vk can offer, mobility? Weak. Turning? Weak. Damage/dpm? Weak. It's doesn't have anything to be worth keeping in garage right now

[tough shell]

Gotta love wotb discord s takes
They never fail to get a laugh out of me 😂

[waxen sorrel]

Both are kinda diffrent you can look for similar tanks like IS4 or the Maus,but just like he said dont sell tanks,if you have a premium you can make it easier to grind

[ancient rampart]

The fact that people are asking for the VK 90 to get buffs when it's arguably one of the best tier 10 heavies atm

[unborn whale]

Know I’m a bit late, but spamming prammo is basically wot pc and people get hate for that

In all honesty, someone should make a video like chems titled “is wotb rigged” and do all the analysis Chems does. I’d be excited to see the results for each nation because chems found that op premiums were ruining wot pc, maybe the same will apply to blitz

[modern heart]

in wotPC theres basically no drawback because gold has same alpha, so it makes sense why people do it

in blitz that's not usually the case, but it's different for the STB / Ho Ri / other tanks

[unborn whale]

There’s no world we’re you think the vk 90 needs a buff, in fact I actually agree with a nerf. There’s been so many times where the stupid lower plate gets bounced were it shouldn’t

[fickle shoal]

cali buff effectively nerfed it enough, quite a few tanks can standard pen the lfp on flat and most prammo's don't struggle

[unborn whale]

What r u gonna do once it sidescrapes

[hearty canyon]

Learn where to hit weak spots, isn’t to hard.

[ancient rampart]

yeah have fun with that

[fickle shoal]

key on your keyboard called "2", 330 and the cheeks turn green

[hearty canyon]

My point, n that’s easy to counter . Aslong as you know how to pre aim shots n time them correct.

[ancient rampart]

You're basically required to load premium which is a huge hit to your DPM while the VK 90 can just sit there with small weakpoints and smack you with 297 standard pen

[fickle shoal]

when a heavy tank has armor 😮 and needs a lot of pen to get penetrated 😮

[hearty canyon]

That’s why we have premium, n if it’s a problem then just go around it n forcing it over angle making the lower sides easy to pen.

[severe basin]

what is blud talking about

[ornate warren]

thats quite hard when its a corridor map (which is most of the case due to the design of the maps.) , besides even though you try that option, you have to encounter more possibilities such as becoming vulnerable to enemy tds or mediums that are advantageous when faces a heavy out of position. all this work is just for the sake of trying to hit a german superheavy that doesnt even care where you are, since all it has to do is just angle towards the next location you will be in. (how it will know? because maps are not as big as wot pc maps, therefore it will know that you will try the next nearest corridor )

@unborn whale agreed

lets not also forget that that vk wont be a dum dum who will keep the same exact posture in the process, it will of course take the advantage of you giving up on that position

[thorny timber]

thanks to the sheer non compatability of players with superheavy armor pressed into a tank with size such of vk 90's, players will still have issues dealing with them

[unborn whale]

“Cheeks turn green” my guy do you know how hard it is to hit that weak spot? Especially if the player is skills and wiggles the tank around. These weak spots aren’t like the Maus weak spots were they’re massive.
@hearty canyon I’d like to see your stats on blitzstars. Maybe then we can have a convo about learning how to hit weak spots

[olive ridge]

The truth blud, the truth. maybe for your cluster C0 it's OP, in my cluster people deal with vk90 in a minute

[fickle shoal]

seems like aim issue, i don't struggle to hit that

[severe basin]

yea a casual dude in random games sure is gonna showcase a tank the best

[olive ridge]

Explain me purpose of heavy tanks when everyone pushing medium on heaviums? If we've been playing same old same old classic battles when heavy vs heavy and med,lt vs med l,lt then okay vk performs amazing in this situation. Right now it needs better speed and rotation. Nothing more nothing less. If we talk about heavy tanks, then Type 71 is much comfortable and better to play usual battles when every minute flanks changing while on Vk you must know where to go in advance because tank physicaly weak on rotation on map during battle due to turret placement and tanks own specifics

[unborn whale]

@fickle shoal You’re talking about one of the strongest sidescrapers in the game, at least e100 turret sides can be overmatched by tds like the jag even when angling, Maus upper plate and turret cheeks are massive and easy to hit. The vk 90s turret is not only angled inward but has no more weak spots than the two small green slivers even for tanks with 400 mm + heat pen. Good players will wiggle and go back and forth in the tank, all for you to waste 6 seconds aiming and bounce and take 460 in the face because the tank is a laser.

Not to mention the tank is extremely flexible too. You can hull down because you have good gun depression over the sides, and minimize your profile by peeking from the rear with the rear mounted turret. The tank deserves a nerf

@olive ridge In no way can you deal with the vk 90 in a minute. Have you forgotten it’s a super heavy with super heavy hit points? With your comment on the type, no. Wargaming has nerfed the improved suspension equipment where it basically makes the tank an is4 from like 8.0. The tank isn’t fast and can’t be used for flanking. Maybe like an e6, but that cupola can be hit 5/10 times at least

On your comment with better traverse speed, simple. If the tank goes alone, sure it’s easy to counter, but that goes for all tanks. Go with the team and you are nearly unstoppable when people can’t rush you to flank

Think about the vk 90 this way. It’s like an obj 279(e). Can you hit the weak spots? Yes. Are you going to? Probably not

[icy furnace]

armor nerfs and massive pen buffs have spoiled people so much that you think that penning maus in the upper plate is okay and fair and having to aim for weakspots on vk90 makes it broken and needs a nerf

[unborn whale]

Pfft. The Maus upper plate has always been an auto pen for high pen heavies and tank destroyers. Just check out some videos from 2020. The vk 90 is simply broken because high pen tds can basically do nothing to it

This is the wz 113 ht, the most pen heavy with cali aiming at the vk 90 using heat. See how literally the entire upper plate is red? See how the vk is literally able to gun block it’s own weak spots (without enhanced)? And people here say “omg cali and pen buffs are making people complain about aiming for weak spots.”

[fickle shoal]

maybe use the 113's decently accurate gun and all that pen to aim and hit the turret cheeks 😮

[icy furnace]

as it should

[tough shell]

Actually spitting out facts

[unborn whale]

@icy furnace “hm I don’t see a problem here”

[hearty canyon]

Idk where yall struggle so much even on tight maps, know your maps work around it and learn angles you can poke n out maneuver the vk considering it has a slow hull rotation. It all comes down to your shots n how you pre aim n take the time, because end of the day it isn’t the tank, it’s the driver .

[unborn whale]

Is your most played tank the smasher?
Do you have any t10s?

[hearty canyon]

What are you even on, I own every tier 10 i only play t10, you’ll rarely see me in tier 8 let alone t7 💀

[whole flame]

me personally i main the Light VIC

[unborn whale]

Send me the blitzstars

[stone drum]

It doesn't actually have superheavy HP, it has regular heavy HP, which is basically its core trade-off. It trades raw HP for improved armour.

[rocky sentinel]

What if the maus was like the mauschen in terms of gun stats, like the mauschen if I’m not mistaken has a more accurate gun, but the maus keeps the same DPM it has before the future balance changes. It wouldn’t make the tank op but it would make it more enjoyable.

[unreal urchin]

There’s a lower plate, cheeks and hatch, if you know how to play the game the most obvious is the bottom plate and even the most if not the whole 2 cheeks of the Vk90 are green

[unborn whale]

Read the entire message. You’re supposed to look at it while side scraping, so there is no lower plate weak spot.

[unreal urchin]

Again the cheeks, yea there’s gun blocking but there’s also your timing, if you don’t hit then that’ll make you better at the game or help you time more effectively

[distant cipher]

Up Grille 15!

[worthy harness]

they better not be nerfing vk72s turret armour to 138mm front

[unborn whale]

The tank is still going to be strong, I just wish grille had 640 alpha again

Chieftain and e50 m changes will be devastating, and as a personal 215b driver, why nerf the gun?

[dapper zenith]

if the lesta post pbr of vk72 is any indication then the turret itself might drop in thickness but they widened the gun mantlet and a kinda second mantlet so when face on its a sliver of penable area

[worthy harness]

oh no hell nah, a MEDIUM WITH STANDARD SHELL can pen that. A MEDIUM, yeah nah its not gonna be viable 😭

[cobalt pond]

what buff E50m getting?

[grave topaz]

why VK 90.01 (P) its so overpowerd

[cobalt pond]

good armor

[twin egret]

most tanks got aim time nerfs

[cobalt pond]

how the app called? sorry for ping

[mint barn]

funny to see people actually contest the fact that vk90 is op

[cobalt pond]

its not that op but its still good i have avg 3k+ dmg per battle with it

[mint barn]

well i has weakspots that can't be pened without gold and it's too mobile

[cobalt pond]

but its easy to overangle it when sidescrapping and everything goes in

[mint barn]

even when overangling you can't pen it because of the random space armor it has in the side

[surreal urchin]

tactics and flanking will always beat a heavy, which is why all nations have gone to the MBT concept, terrain is the only limiting factor

[dapper zenith]

they may all call their primary tank an mbt but all mbts don't have the same purpose these days

[unborn whale]

Blitzkit

[ancient rampart]

Insanely good armor
297 standard pen
10 degree gun depression on the sides
accurate gun

[oak merlin]

the next balance changes for tier 10 will

[solar idol]

wg: not enough, needs more buff, gotta make ppl buy it!! who cares bout balance!! need that cash!!!1!1!

(a few moments later and mm is packed with VKs)

[scenic hazel]

E 50 M
Hull 174/102/83.2 -> 174/111/83.2
Turret 285/105/84 -> 285/114/84
Reload time 7.2s -> 6.8s

• Reactive armor

[inland quarry]

buffs plural lol

[scenic hazel]

they could have just given 907 and 30b apcr standard instead of nerfed the stats

[frigid sapphire]

lol no, that's worse

[scenic hazel]

Nah i rather have base stats than shell type

[smoky berry]

kv2 - reload time - 23s
183 - reload time - 10s + 3x damage + 7x accuracy + killing the experience of t9s and t10s

[muted rampart]

What? How does 183 have 10 seconds of reload? It actually has 20.

How does it deal 3x damage of KV-2? KV-2 does 640, 183 does 950, it's not even 1.5x, let alone 3.

Even if you compare HE, it's 960 and 1390 so difference isn't that big.

It doesn't have 7x accuracy either. It is much more accurate, but 183 unlike KV-2 doesn't have one shot capability at it's tier.

If according to you 183 destroys experience of T9 and T10 (it usually doesn't) then KV-2 destroys experience of T5 and 6

[fathom glacier]

We already have fv4005 with autoloader fv4005 can clip and kill t9 and possible t10 if you have high dmg. And wt auf e100 comes later too and clip easy for t9/10. so we don’t need other autoloader TD

[elfin goblet]

Здесь есть русские

[tough trout]

Существует русский Discord сервер…

[mint barn]

he was being sarcastic how dry can you be

[uneven turtle]

WTaufE100 is going to be a mid tank

[cursive pollen]

nerf when?

[regal iris]

BRO PLEASSSSSEEE 😭😭😭

[cursive pollen]

at least nerf it's cupolar damn it

[worn heron]

k91 is just fine

[cursive pollen]

nahh tier 8 gave up

[narrow raft]

nice

[stone drum]

What tank are you in?

[thorny timber]

seems like a t77 to me

[stone drum]

If he's actually complaining about K-91 while playing T77, that is new levels of hypocrisy.

[lost crane]

cali on an autoloader with low pen heat, when ?

[cerulean bridge]

Wg doesn't know how to balance that is why tanks are getting over buffed...its sad

[ancient rampart]

Shoot through the track wheel

[nimble zodiac]

Brother literally found the single position where K-91 wasn't penetrable. Pull forwards to expose its lower plate or back away so it can make a misplay by extending to shoot you.

Also bro is not using CS in a HEAT tank, wild.

@ancient rampart The track wheel is not an option since APCR fails to normalize enough to really guarantee a penetration

[ancient rampart]

I think it would pen either way common APCR L

[nimble zodiac]

Oh you mean NOT through the track wheel, avoiding it specifically

[stone drum]

What are you talking about?

[cursive pollen]

well yeah T77 indeed, he caught me by suprised and i have no chance
also trying to move to middle in the right side and stay there, got caught mid way and can't move much
Gotta be careful playing gamemode and saw couple E 50, M or without

[cerulean bridge]

E50m is already a strong tank...better side armor gun buffs with reactive its literally cooking the tank...that is one example. 183s are getting closer to .3 dispersion you know fair and balanced...right? Not all of these vehicles need change. Buff the ones that struggle like the cs 63. Nerf the ones that are op...like wz. Amx 50b reactive@stone drum

[stone drum]

So your in an extremely strong autoloader complaining about... another extremely strong autoloader...

@cerulean bridge lol, AMX 50b isn't even remotely Op, CS-63 is getting a buff, and WZ is getting a nerf.

[cerulean bridge]

@stone drum they are still changing tanks that dont need it....50b reactive does is allows yolos...bad plays deserve punishment. Also more dpm is less battle time (turbo battles, aa steamrolls). Also if you agree with changes you are clueless some of the changes are needed. Look at list..
Chieftain doesn't need any changes it is already balanced

[pulsar stump]

I dont see any logic in removing 50b's reactive armor.It already struggles with dealing Heavy tanks and Tank Destroyers.
In my opinion, 50b is fairly balanced atm.It has reliable clip,speed,alpha.There are many cons to this tank,such its size,reverse speed,paper armor.

[cursive pollen]

yeah i complaining for not finding a big weakspot of a k-91

[stone drum]

50b reactive doesn't allow yolos, lol, it lasts for only 10 seconds, barely enough time to even get out a full clip. After releasing said clip you still have to get out, without reactive armour and with HE-able sides.

[cerulean bridge]

It is pretty bad when very skilled players Flossie, fatness, and Peter, all disagree with some of the buffs and changes... for example, why change Leopard it is statistically the worst-performing tank. It's obvious you all just want overpowered tanks.

[pulsar stump]

WOTB team shoud've started balancing tier 8 tanks first.There are many irritating tanks to play(to play against) on tier 8 these days.For example T54 mod.This tank futures disgusting dpm that makes this tank's gameplay experience bad.

[cerulean bridge]

@pulsar stump you are wrong. T54 mod. Has terrible armor it why no one plays it. Tier 8 is most balanced...OK t77 it only overpowered because is is two shells... long reload terrible reverse non-reliable armor.

[pulsar stump]

Leopard 1 is reliable tank for experienced and pro players.It was a WELL BALANCED TANK,witch futured amazing gun and dynamic gameplay.Many players had issues with preforming in this tank,maybe this is why they're adding new mechainc to the tank.

[cerulean bridge]

U.S.A.

T95E6
+4 traverse
hatch armor changed from 220 to 248?????????????????
-75 horsepower

T25 pileofshit1
-3 tons
+100 HP
-0.2 reload

XM551 Sheridan (Not missile)
+2 top speed
+0.02 disp on turret
+5mm APCR pen
+10/+5/+10 alpha damage

Concept 1B
-0.2 reload
+0.02 turret rotation dispersion

M-6-Y
+0.55 aimtime on 105
+0.4 aimtime on 120
+20 horsepower

M18 Hellcat

• PBR

M41 Bulldog

• PBR

M48A1 Patton
+0.3 reload
+Reactive Armor
+Gear Oil

M60

• PBR
• Armor changes
  +0.2 reload
  -300/-200/-200 velocity
  +Improved Engine Boost
  +Sandbag Armor

T57HT
+1.6 top speed
+1 reverse
-3 traverse
+0.25 aimtime

T110E3
-3 traverse
-10 viewrange
-0.4 reload
+0.2 aimtime
+5mm APCR pen

T110E4
-2 traverse
-10 viewrange
-0.2 aimtime
-15 horsepower
+Sandbag Armor

Germany

E50M
Side armor buffed by ~15mm
turret sides buffed from 105 to 114
-0.4 reload
-400 shell velocity across the entire tank

• Reactive Armor

VK90
-2 traverse
-0.15 aimtime
+0.03 turret traverse disp

Kpz 50t
-0.15 aimtime
-8mm on both AP and HEAT
-3mm HE

Leopard 1
+2 reverse speed
+50 HP
-4 traverse speed
-degree of depression
+0.5 reload
+Adaptive Concealment
-40 horsepower

• Gear Oil

Maus
-0.2 reload
+0.01 turret disp on rotation

VK-72
+PBR
+Model/armor change
+1 second reload
-0.02 turret disp rotation thing
-4mm pen on all shells

Tier 10 Waffentrager Tank Destroyer and Rhm Panzer Wagon Light Tank....

Not all are bad but the majority are

[quaint elk]

What about adding a upgrade turret module that can unlock on the tech tree to fv215b, which can increase his "initiative" and buff him without changing his own gameplay.
Because seriously, even so, 215B can't be a "super conqueror with rear turret" because it exists as a foundation of "support tank".🤔
If you are a powerful support tank, but your "teammate" can't let you play his full power, then his shortcomings will be exposed in all directions.
Adding such an upgrade turret to 215b can provide him with some "initiative" instead of just giving it to his teammates.
Although 215B is a great tank from the tank point of view, the appearance rate of (not only him, but also all "tanks of the same type") in regular mode of teach tree tank is almost at the bottom.
It is not because of his own problems, but the unreliable factor of "teammates" that it is difficult for such tanks to maintain their "positions" in such a changeable environment.😭
Because he is a "support tank", he has no initiative, he can't lead his teammates to attack or win, and once there is a problem, he can only become a contributor of enemy`s avg dmg.

[stone drum]

Ngl, I could easily make better changes.

@cerulean bridge I'm fully aware

[cerulean bridge]

These are wg official changes from blitz post some changes are just random

[twin egret]

T77 has amazing reverse and very troll armor wdym 💀
it goes 18km backwards

[fickle shoal]

brother got his education from the droodles comment section

[twin egret]

so, replacing this slot for either add-on armor or more mobility?

[quaint elk]

add-on armor......
what a war thunder moment
If equipment can really affect "armor"🤔

[ember idol]

https://tenor.com/view/yoda-there-is-another-star-wars-jedi-gif-5140031

[twin egret]

You're the one suggesting these changes
The tank doesn't really need anything what you're suggesting imo
And Enchanced Armor exists btw, second row, second column in the equipment selection

[quaint elk]

My idea is to give "support tanks" some initiative.
But it doesn't mean that changing armor like this means letting him go to the front.
215B can't be a "super conqueror with rear turret" at all
This can effectively enable him to have a certain overall grasp ability under the premise of being a "tank support" position.
And I mean, affect the armor model.

[nimble zodiac]

What's with all the quotations? It's like you want me to put another phrase in all those places when the quotation marks aren't necessary to begin with 😭

The point of FV215b is to deal damage. Giving it turret armor will actually do next to nothing because everybody shoots the hull, which the driver can't hide easily due to the rear turret mount position.

[stone drum]

I wouldn't really call 18kph "amazing", it's definitely solid, but nothing more.

[simple haven]

T77 is a heavy 🤡 clipping 800 in 2.5 secs and running away with 18 reverse without getting punished is pretty frustrating ngl

[stone drum]

okay, and?

[simple haven]

😶what more do you want me to say ?

[icy pilot]

all i got to say is why randomly nerf so many tanks💀

[tough shell]

In what world is 18km/h reverse not amazing? Clearly not this one 😂

[stone drum]

In the world where people have eyes.

[tough shell]

Yea sure greeners like you lot apparently cant feel satisfied with anything under 22 🥱

[twin egret]

it's amazing for a heavy, at tier 8

[stone drum]

Not really, the standard is 15-16kph, 18 like I said is solid, but nothing insane. For a tier 8 heavy about 20kph is "amazing".

[gleaming apex]

arti___ was muted.

[worthy basin]

Don’t think posting selfies is adviced to begin with, but especially the profanity on it is a nope for this server

[red cradle]

damn 268/4 really fell off

[stone drum]

Honestly, it should never have been touched, it wasn't a great tank to begin with.

@twin egret mostly alpha, from like 690 or 680 down to 650.

[twin egret]

what was touched about it? I forgot what was made worse on it 💀

[fickle shoal]

assuming he means 10.3

Object 268 Version 4: the type of the base shell is changed to APCR; the average damage per shot is decreased by 40 and 20 points for APCR and HEAT shells, respectively; view range is reduced by 10 m. Reload time becomes 1.25 s shorter; max. forward speed increases to 40 km/h.

[red cradle]

I meant the cali changes where a lot of heavy tanks had insane penetration

[barren goblet]

10.3 nerf hit it quite hard, it dropped a lot on server stats after. Cali buff didn't help for sure also

[lost talon]

Is there plans to remove that really disgusting mechanic of "reserve shell"? I mean really, it's the worst "mechanic" in WoTB that honestly not even a mechanic, WG just made cooldown of 1st shell in magazine longer and called that a "mechanic" when it isn't. I thought that mechanics should make tanks better and more interesting but this one is actually making tank unplayable, especially this applies to Bisonte, it has only 2 shells, why won't make it like Rinocheronte? With this tendencies you can make "Long Reolading" "mechanic" and add a screen of this mechanic for tanks with long reloading like KV-2, or make "Slow Tank" "Mechanic" for tanks like Maus, E100, Maschen etc.

[dapper zenith]

the point of reserve shell is that you "can" play it as a 2 shell, you don't use the reserve shell unless you're in a sticky situation and the penalty for using it is longer reload, you can use it as a single shot if you wanted to

[lost talon]

Well, tanks without "reserve shell" can do it even better....

[dapper zenith]

tanks without a reserve shell can do what? better, i'm not sure what your complaint is, the mechanic gives you an option for your play style,

[lost talon]

Well i meant tanks with an autoloader, they can do the same thing as "reserve shell" but even better, can't they?

[dapper zenith]

an auto loader has to empty its entire clip in order to reload the magazine, an auto REloader can reload shells individually, with a REloader you can fire once and let that shell reload if you wanted to, or you can fire all shells but you'll be penalized by an insanely long reload to get all the shells back

[lost talon]

I meant autoreolader thx

[tough shell]

and then you ve got whatever the heck the rinoceronte has 😂

[rigid fractal]

A Simple autoreloader, nothing about it

[tough shell]

Do show me any other "simple autoreloader" with only 2 shells in the mag

[nimble zodiac]

Being unique does not mean it isn't simple

[prisma jetty]

The tier 9

[tough shell]

Simple is very clearly used as a stand in for ordinary here so no, its gun is anything but a simple autoreloader
Also tech tree line same crap lol

[rigid fractal]

Don't fill my words with your context
It is a simple gun, the simplest being a singleshot, then an autoloader and so on. It has only 2 shells, which is easier than 3 or more, it doesn't have any reserve shell mechanics, and the first one loaded is the one that loads the fastest which is easier to use (imo) than a gun with the inverse (last one loaded loads the quickest)

[tough shell]

So it wasnt meant as "ordinary", I see...
Then what you re saying doesnt make any sense lmao
If you re using the word simple by employing the meaning "not difficult/easy to understand" then what does a "simple autoreloader" mean? Are there non-simple autoreloader or by extension, non-simple guns? Just adding shells onto a magazine doesnt make them any less "simple"
What about using the proper terms next time so that you dont end up having to build a narrative off of your own mistake?

[wicked quest]

Making a paragraph over a word is crazy, rhino still one of the best

[tough shell]

Im not the instigator this time 😂
Also true, rino is stupid strong currently

[stone drum]

Rinos fine ngl

[tough shell]

Yea sure lets all say its fine, I dont want to give WG any wrong idea 😊

[stone drum]

Now your getting it.

[tough shell]

🤭

[fickle shoal]

rino it clearly underperforming and NEEDS 10 degrees of gun depression, it's just useless!!!! 🙏🏼 🙏🏼 🙏🏼

[stone drum]

That's a funny way of spelling 12°

[fickle shoal]

so true 🙏🏼 but even then it's just not flexible enough.... 😔

[barren goblet]

Tier 9 is even worse 😦

[hardy cobalt]

Maus used to be my favorite tier 10, but tbh the gun was nerfed so much and TDs are now so unbalanced that I just can't stand playing it. And for the last year I haven't seen any substantial jgpz E100 nerf so I'm just playing that instead since it's literally better at everything than maus gameplay-wise. It needs huge stabilization improvements since its gameplay is hugely based on constantly rotating the turret and having literally no time to aim unless you want to get 700+ damage from a more accurate AT. Instead me & my friends are just facepalming on every update devs decide to make maus even LESS accurate

[hardy cobalt]

Also just reminding about kv-jr and T30 comparison

[dapper zenith]

the Maus had its days at the top for awhile but yea its not a bounce machine anymore, takes almost 2 secs to traverse the turret enough so that the cheeks aren't penned by every standard shell ,

[twin egret]

Kid named premium shell:

[hardy cobalt]

Premium shells from TDs simply penetrate its top hull so. At tier 10 I see little point playing anything but TD or certain meds. VK72 is basically a TD now so doesn't count

[night garden]

You know if they remove the deathstar from Lesta i Hope it gets PC stats (minus the standard HE alpha lol).. from becoming a collector tank.. AP: 1150, Hesh: 1750, HE: 2200 (21 to 26 second reload though)

just to annoy Droodles.. thats just my opinion 😛

[scenic hazel]

Funny how some mediums have better turret than a super heavy

[dapper zenith]

113 is probably the best tech tree heavy right now , for armour/speed/gun handling ratio

[hardy cobalt]

I don't want another IS7, that's boring. Also some meds having better armor than heavies like kpz50 and T62 is just hilariously bad. Tried concept as well after getting it for 10 years and it also doesn't stand any chance against TDs. On T8 tornvagn is neat tho

[tough trout]

Dear Wargaming, you’ve made a really good game, that most of the players enjoy very much. Most of us are really grateful for all the events that you make, and we all are really excited for that new engine, that will make this great game even better. However, about those upcoming balance changes… if you think that metas should be shifted from time to time, that’s quite fine. But let’s keep it somewhat reasonable. Nerfing some tanks to the point that they become barely usable, while buffing other to the point of being overpowered is not a solution. Super Conqueror does not really need dpm increase, AND reactive. Neither does e50m. And, please, be so kind as to not totally ruin vehicles that are by no means op, like amx 30b, or leopard. There are many rebalancing ideas that the player base would wholeheartedly support, like nerfing Smasher, and Annihilator, maybe 752 also. Of course, cheers for finally buffing cs63. Sincerely yours, White_and_nerdy.

[hardy cobalt]

752 isn't OP. If you ask me T30 is the best tier 8 heavy. I do agree that recent balance changes do not at all feel like the right thing they should be doing. Slightly above average vehicles are getting nerfed. PITA tanks like jgpz aren't being touched at all for years. Maus is getting accuracy nerfs. That's just hilarious. STB nerf is the only right thing that was done lately imo. And kpz70 depression angle increase as well. VK72 nerf is needed only because it's close to being tier 10 ATs stats-wise, yet tier 10 ATs aren't being rebalanced.

[cinder shard]

The Obj752 really is a bit too strong.
It has quiet good (and troll) armor, is decently mobile, get's good flexibility with -8° of depr, has an amazing gun with insane pen, good damage and 860 clip damage while having accuracy and handling that other russian tanks can only dream about.

(Furthermore the VK72 is getting nerfed because it overperforms. It's simply too good as well because of the frontal armor, decent gun and other attributes like tungsten and the mobility-equipment. Nothing to do with T10 tds)

[severe basin]

Are you talking about some old stb nerf or the one that hasnt even been released because that one isnt even nerfing it instead making it even more toxic

[hardy cobalt]

Not good, troll armor, yes. Clip is very slow so not a problem. My go-to USSR tier 9 heavy would be IS8 because of very comfortable gun, great mobility and cheat sides.

I'm talking about old-ish nerf. Idk what's up with balance team for the last few years tbh. All changes are weird and not what players invested in the game would feel. Not like they were doing great before (and sure it is a very hard task, plus now there are a ton more tanks to keep track of) but damn. Especially all those -0.00001 reload time and stuff which don't affect core issue and gameplay at all. When your change is way less than you can get with provision you know you're doing something wrong

[cinder shard]

I mean, different players have different preferences, but imo the 752 is better.
Most people agree on that as well, there are more than enough reviews on the tank calling it "too strong"

[uneven turtle]

E5:

[hardy cobalt]

Might be above average. But again T30 demolishes it

[cinder shard]

No, 100% not.
The T30 is a very good tank, that I agree with. (I've got the Diamond-camo on it since it's been available, same with the 53TP)
But it won't beat the 752 in most situations.

[hardy cobalt]

T 30 can win over 752 simply by playing from better dpm and exchanging alpha. It can easily penetrate 752 hatches because of great penetration and accuracy in case of positional battle. Since 752 needs to shoot twice to have its actual dpm and you simply won't allow it to do that. 4 seconds is plenty to shoot and hide. While 752 would be having troubles penetrating T30's turret because of way worse accuracy

[cinder shard]

1st picture: 752 vs T30 with rammer (how I set it up)
2nd picture: to be fair, T30 equippped with cs
3rd picture: the view of the 752 you'd be facing
(And also, if you look at the picture, it's accuracy is only 0.008 worse while having miles better dispersion-penalty in every single aspect. The 752 can move without having to aim for long, so in reality, it's aimtime is actually better than the T30.

[hardy cobalt]

Why would T30 be looking up to the 752 kek, it's way higher. Pretty sure I could simply penetrate its turret when I was playing T30 last time

[nimble zodiac]

Because Obj. 752 uses hulldown as its primary strategy?

[cinder shard]

"Hulldown"
Unless you clonk heads together and then start the 1v1, the Obj will likely be in such a position

[clear shuttle]

himmelsdorf 1v1 both go mid or kicked from room !!!

[hardy cobalt]

Eh, that requires sloped terrain which would fit its -7 depression, but sure

[clear shuttle]

you can't exactly compare the 113 to the is-7 anymore anyway imo

[hardy cobalt]

Plus it's worth mentioning I primarily compare tanks not 1v1 but how they can deal with what's currently in the random or modes. I have both T30 and 752. While playing against random 752 on T30 or Kpz70 or even char futur I have zero troubles

[cinder shard]

(Ie. the 752 can deal with more =P)
If you get to know/play the 752, you'll understand
Actually, I just took a look at what the relative wr stats are on TankCompare, the Obj 752 is nearly at 59% with a bit over 2100 avrg dmg. The T30 is slughtly below 54% with about 1850 avrg.
The 752 seems to have the best wr out of any tanks from the tech tree or tanks that could be purchased with money/Gold.
Tanks excluded are stuff like the AE / Lorraine 50t and stuff like that because they don't have enough players to give a meaningful avrg

[hardy cobalt]

T30 is accessible more freely so it don't think that's representative. Also maybe there's the factor that people don't quite know how to deal with 752 for some reason idk. I'm certain that more good players play prem 752 and most T30 players just play it to get E4

[cinder shard]

It actually shows that the 752 has more players than the T30 😂
And the 752 has been out for a hot minute now, people should know where the normal weakspots are

[frigid sapphire]

eh...

E50m would be a better example

[muted rampart]

752 is very strong, it isn't a go to ranked battles tank for a tone of players without a reason, despite being on a not so popular tier

[barren goblet]

T30 is slower than people imagine. That alone makes it less flexible than 752

[drowsy plaza]

Anyone who thinks the 752 isn’t broken really shouldn’t be playing those tiers. It’s far and away the above the best tier 9. I average over 3k in it for dmg, and over 81% WR and I’m 45th for avg dmg in it on NA… fatness averages over 4,300 dmg. When looking at EU and NA I’m
Out of the top 100 for dmg and 49th for WR.

[uneven turtle]

Tbh I’d prefer playing 50tp over the obj

Slightly less stronger but way more fun

Not just playing to dominate

Wanna have some fun too. It’s a game after all

[night garden]

Annihilator lost its super turbo.. so.. it was already nerfed?

[drowsy plaza]

Oh I don’t disagree I only have 104 games in it, as I feel dirty playing it. I’m mostly just chasing missing aces these days (so three tier 7 heavies, BZ-75, Carro P88, and the E-10, as all my other tier 7-10 tanks are aced). I don’t really have fun playing broken tanks.

[tough trout]

Somewhat, yes. But far from enough. Still, clearly, an extremely op vehicle.

[tough shell]

Hold up, is sconq really getting reactive consumable?? No way... In what world are we living??? 😭

[cobalt pond]

what buff is E50 getting? i heard its gettin

[unreal pilot]

stop the yapping

[dawn hawk]

Buff chinese’s LT when?

[arctic storm]

I heard its getting nerfed next rebalance

[dawn hawk]

I just wish they buff the gun, maybe more penetration

[arctic storm]

Ye seeing the stats make me wanna delete the line

[lost crane]

They will be buff next update
@dawn hawk it’s nothing compare with more reverse speed, gear oil (+4 top forward and reverse speed , so it can achieve 71/28 km/h), and the dpm buff to 3.4-3.5k.

[dawn hawk]

Wtf -5mm pen

[ember idol]

~230mm is pretty much basic light tank pen so it's just a miniscule nerf

[severe basin]

its not quite the opposite its only getting buffs

[mental nova]

i think i will sell wz xd

[sharp viper]

Either the armour or the mobility… it doesn’t have any armour and its mobility its bad ash . Give the tank a buff its been trash for several years.

[smoky tapir]

I think and t-34-85 need give more HP

950 in 6 tier is trash

[severe basin]

how can someon think that is trash the armor in no way is trash no standard shells are ever gonna pen you if you hide your lowerplate and it has a very accurate gun with decent alpha and like 3500 dpm which is INSANELY high

[sharp viper]

A heavy can pen with standard allmost every spot of the tank . It is way too slow for its armour it needs a slight buff at the speed . The armour is no great either .

[severe basin]

looks fine to me a t54e2 with cali shooting premium and looks pretty red to me

wrong pic mb

[arctic storm]

In no situation ur gonna face a jgtgr 8.8 in this position

[rugged sage]

Ok the jgtg is probably the best td in tier 8 if you have a problem with it you should probably use prem heavy’s the only thing wrong with it is you can pen it if you hit its gun at close range

[arctic storm]

"looks fine to me" if u follow that logic then kran got 18km of armor

[rugged sage]

I do agree then it does need a frontier armor buff but again that is a 273mm pen prems which almost no tier 8 has

[twin egret]

ur looking at it with 273mm of AP pen

[arctic storm]

"OmG!!!! NeRf tHE KrAn!!!"- someone to me in another wotb server showing me a pic where he did what im doing in this screenshot but better, he had found 18 kms of armor from a specific angle which no tank will ever shoot from

[rugged sage]

Ok the Kraven not that good and it is a tier ten heavy

[severe basin]

brobably because your shooting it with premium on flat?
it has a decent bit of gun depression btw

like i said no standard shells are never gonna pen it apart from the lowerplate and you can just use gun depression to shake off premium shells

[arctic storm]

That's how u see how much frontal armor tanks have? Ur not gonna check the frontal armor of a tank by looking from its rear.

[severe basin]

do you know what hulldowning is? i guess not guess the stb is one of the weakest mediums in the game then since the hull is paper and everything is gonna pen it

[rugged sage]

The fv215b would be nice with a little more gun depression on the sides and rear the front isnt too hot but it would be nice to somehow be able to shoot over inclines

[arctic storm]

Btw ur screenshot is "biased", hulldown jgtg8.8 shud look like this, and as u can see, even prammo goes thru

[severe basin]

run enchanted armor broblem solved
even so even if this thing had weaker armor it would still be one of the strongest tier 8s in the game with the gun alone

forgot the pic F

[arctic storm]

Same thing, only difference is the shade of red on the "turret", either case it stays unpennable

[severe basin]

i never said its impenetrable
even so the gun like i said alone would still keep it strong

[arctic storm]

Ill just stop

[rugged sage]

Idk if y’all know but tanks are buffed and nerfed by their wr damage blocked and scouting records

[smoky tapir]

But you try angel with wall,like a e100,e75,tiger2

[lost crane]

The mobility and speed are good enough (and speed is amazing for an assault td), and the armour is strong against most standard ammo, and decent against most prammo. And as it is an assault td, it has amazing dpm with good alpha.

[smoky tapir]

What app you using?

[lost crane]

https://blitzkit.app/tools/tankopedia/55313

[smoky tapir]

I tried tanks tiger,skorpion

[remote oriole]

The true enemy of tanks: Wall

[gloomy mural]

Give nightmare preferential matchmaking to max tier 5 or a cannon buff

[opal pelican]

Yo

[scenic olive]

When wg balances tier 8, pls give tds a blanket hp buff🙏 (except for a few like the smv). I’m tired of fighting tier 9s that have the potential to clip me for 2/3 of my hp (752) and before everyone says that this is unnecessary, tier 10 tds literally have the same hp meds of the same tier or MORE. I have no clue why basically every tier 8 td has 1200 hp. All I’m suggesting is give lightly armored tds like the scorpion g 1250 base hp and more aggressive/armored tds 1300-1500 hp. I also think all t8 lights should get a 50hp buff so you are less likely to die from 3 shots by a 400 alpha gun.

[barren goblet]

Compared to other tiers, heavies at tier 8 do have too much of HP advantage. I agree with your opinion

[lost crane]

Not really, if you compare, in average the differences of hp is the same ratio between mt and ht in t8 and in t10. The main differences is lt and td. Paper td and lt have less hp in t8 than in t10 (proportionally to mt and ht)

[scenic olive]

This is the argument I’m making, I don’t think heavies have too much hp, tds have too little. On the topic of lts, why do they ALL have the same or worse view range than mediums of the same tier? They sacrifice so much armor and hp for a high top speed, most of them don’t even have good power to weight ratios compared to tier 10 lights. My suggestion is to buff all tier 8 lts view range so that it’s higher than tier 8 meds and give most of them horsepower buffs because 90% of them never reach their top speed, and 50 more hp (excluding lekpz)

[rugged sage]

This is why I want e50 m

I need to load prems in my fv215b

[silk root]

sounds like fake news

[dapper zenith]

poor comet would have to CoD a td for a full minute to chew through that health : )

[barren goblet]

How do you deal with 1750hp heavy then

[blissful valve]

Thicc

[lost crane]

This is why some people will not perform well in maus, you need to angle

[odd night]

Nah honestly on the armor aspect it was lackluster but they got it quite right now. The turret should be overangled if you need to bounce. However, the reward for exposing the cheeks maybe should be bigger and the gun scarier ? Like some +20 alpha or faster turret traverse idk

[severe basin]

Maus has apcr and on top of that only like 330 take a different shooter

[lost crane]

the armour is still strong against mt and lt prammo, and agaisnt ht without cali. But few tanks have strong armour against td prammo or ht heat with cali (even more against 384 heat, which is among the best for an ht).

[severe basin]

Upperplate actually needs to be buffed i dont really care about the cheeks being that weak but the upperplate SHOULD NOT be that weak

[lost crane]

nop, it falls apart against heavy tank with high pen prammo and cali, this is some exemple against other ht, it's not that bad. And anyway, maus is a big hp bag, with good armour against standard ammo, not a vk90
(And the video you showed is a maus against 384 heat, no mt can achieve that, let alone with standard)

[arctic storm]

#buffmaus

[lost crane]

let's pick one of the best pen for an lt and call it a day
And angle the tank, please, that's the entire point of the maus

first, this is what angle mean (edit, with multiple annemy, most heavy tank have weakpoint lol, with these argument, is7, type71... need also an armour buff)
then, does any other heavy tank can achieve more than 3k hp ?
imo, maus need a gun buff ( alpha and/or dpm and/or accuracy), but not an armour buff, it's an hp bag, not an impervious tank

[neat vortex]

Buff rammer

[hardy cobalt]

Agreed, when applied correctly maus is good enough when it comes to armor. Gun is what totally ruins it, especially 1v1 against tank destroyers. They can penetrate you quite easily on AP and you often need to use premium shells to penetrate them at all because of the height, thus lowering your already inferior DPM against TD. And against minotauro you can do literally nothing even with premium shells. Maus needs to deal a bit more damage(500/540) per shot to more fairly exchange HP with TDs and way better accuracy/stabilization to compensate for constant turret and hull movement

[muted rampart]

Maus has the worst gun handling on entire T10 and WG seems to be nerfing it even more for no reason

[severe basin]

Actually now that i think about it upperplate is annoying but after playing a few games trying to angle the thing i realized one thing more annoying your never gonna get the change to shoot back because once you turn your turret even slightly it falls apart

I had to sit still angled against a wall for 2 minutes straight because when i tried shooting i instantly got shot like 2 times

[barren goblet]

And yet with all these problems , maus is among top tier performing tier 10 on server stats. One could say it's because average player of this game can't rush and die and armor/HP combo keeps them in battle longer ...which means maus works in intended role. Maybe it's just not the tank for higher skilled part of playerbase.

[stone drum]

Its actually one of the stronger upperplates at tier X.

[barren goblet]

Almost as if the real issue isnt maus upper plate rather than HEAT cali buff and t10 TDs insane pen values.

[stone drum]

Blitzplayers when a class explicitly designed around high penetration & damage shockingly has high penetration;

[scenic hazel]

I think they forgot to add feedback about balance changes

[thorny timber]

they'll get damned on

[hushed pulsar]

T-22 needs a Buff like sometimes the armor is there but sometimes everyone destroys u

[ember idol]

Your wish is WG's command

They're going to buff it in the next rebalance anyway

[rugged sage]

Why is new td so bad stats

[rocky helm]

What about wz113g ft?

[lost crane]

What, an autoloader has less dpm and alpha than a single shot gun with kinda high alpha ? No way !

[proud elk]

Question is thare an t-55?

[fathom glacier]

Nobody wants a most op WT auf E100 🤷‍♂️

[twin egret]

it's only broken in the eyes of the noobs that just so happened to be clipped by one

[barren goblet]

There is valid debate about autoloaders and their influence on meta and game pace. But wt e100 with current stats won't be a problem in 95% of situations

[icy pilot]

issue about balancing/rebalancing t8s is that it has to be weak enough for t7s, while strong enough for t9s

basically, t8 is a very hard tier to truly balance

[scenic olive]

I understand this, but buffing most tier 8 tds hp would make them more viable because most of them kinda suck rn, there is no reason for a tank like the cda to have 1200 hp, being a 3 shot to a 400 alpha gun is just dumb. Heavies dominate this tier and a decent hp buff would really help tds of the same tier compete.

[icy pilot]

oh yeah tds 100% need a slight hp buff

[wheat cloud]

BUFF IS4 BUFF IS4 BUFF IS4 BUFF IS4 BUFF IS4

[prisma jetty]

Congratulations, the IS-4 will be given 1 hp. It has been buffed, you should be happy now

[balmy veldt]

I’m not questioning, just want to know maus gun handling values

[stone drum]

Solution: remove all autoloading guns except those on French & American tanks.

[distant beacon]

Hi all! Guys, when is the event for the ball?

[spice silo]

that angle is not enough for anything with 340+ HEAT pen btw

[hushed pulsar]

STB-1 and WZ-113 GFT need a Nerf STB has Good Mobility, Troll ish Armor, and Premium AP shells alongside a Decent and Accurate Gun it shouldn’t have 11 degrees of depression and 113GFT well you can see it by how people perform in it 4 out of 5 players I encountered in the 113GFT had a 90+ win rate

[rain tendon]

J m only waiting for 70Tp Grosicki

[oak merlin]

nah bring the pz 7 over here in blitz

[verbal leaf]

no thats a diff tank

[deep zealot]

give Fv215b (183) 4 sec faster reload, 2 sec aiming time, 300 HE pen, .229 base dispersion, +100 alpha on each ammo type

[oak merlin]

bro the vk has a 150mm gun, pz 7 has a 128 mm gun

[prisma jetty]

Oh so the E100 with a 128 isn’t an E100

[arctic storm]

Ffffff ck no

[barren goblet]

Give 183 apcr, half engine power and double terrain resistances

[verbal leaf]

they have different hulls and turrets
e100 is the exact same tank but the gun

[prisma jetty]

Panzer VII and VK72 are quite literally the same tank but with different guns…

[arctic storm]

Guys whats the difference between e100 smol gun and maus gun except the m at the end of their name

[oak merlin]

buh they're the same

[arctic storm]

Alr

[verbal leaf]

vz55 is essentially a worse is7 in every stats but handling just for a stab and is7 also has tungsten aswell as a better armor profile which makes the vz not playable or somewhat competitive so much thta you can consider it a trollpick
i suggest we either revamp the gun into the 2 shell autoloader like in pc or to atleast make its gun and turret competitvely armored so that its an alternative to the is7 instead of being just worse

[oak merlin]

wish vz 55 was an autoloader like on PC

[stone drum]

alot of heavies with 1/1.5 terrain resistances, need a terrain resistance buff. Its actually incredible how 1/1.5 absolutely trashs a tanks mobility

[verbal leaf]

vz also has a weak ammorack and in worse placements than is7

[muted rampart]

0.22/0.22/0.12

[stone drum]

For comparison:
.2/.2/.08 is standard for a tier X heavy.

[twin egret]

Leopard tier 5 drivers shooting their 20mm gun every 1.1 seconds now opposed to having an actual clip

[stone drum]

30mm gun.

[dapper zenith]

wow m60 is going to feel these coming changes , definitely m48 will be preferred over it after

[frigid sapphire]

M60 still the best

[native folio]

It IRL proposed to have a 50mm taken from the Sd. Kfz. 234 Puma and has the same turret as it: (I know it was in game, still is on PC WoT)

[muted rampart]

It had that gun in game as well, it was just removed

[rugged sage]

28 sec reload 450 dmgwould be nice

[cursive pollen]

Nerf the Luchs please, 180 per mag, good accuracy?

[nimble zodiac]

The accuracy isn't that good unless you're just a big target and it's close enough. Often times the bursting causes it to miss or bounce a shot, leaving it to deal 135 instead.

The tank is pretty good, but for a rebalance, it should gain traverse speed back (it's awful) and maybe its damage could be reduced to 160 per clip

[quaint elk]

There is a BUG.
KVJR's preim is heat
However, when aiming, the armor shows AP or APCR. heat will not ricochet, but the display will.

[wicked quest]

You mean it has bad pen

[quaint elk]

nope. its bug
KVJR can got 362 heat pen, its good

[prisma jetty]

Yeah some HEAT shells act like AP shells in armor highlighting

[hardy cobalt]

Oh lmao I just noticed that KV-JR dpm is the same as tier 6 KV2, that's so bad. And that's considering it can't penetrate meds and light tanks (and some heavies) in front with HEs like KV2 can. They got some intern on probation to balance a tank it seems

[quaint elk]

KVJR should have 700 alpha and 100+ HE pen

[nimble zodiac]

Could I get that replay?

[hardy cobalt]

You mean 200+HE pen. It's supposed to be bz75 without the need for premium HE's. Basically what KV2 is on tier 6. Not whatever useless abomination they made

[quaint elk]

Its trainingroom...........but
private chat?

[umbral totem]

and a gun that can one shot anything (yes, anything)

[hollow mango]

where to look at this

[muted rampart]

Luchs was already nerfed to the ground. If it needs anything it's a buff along with all other low tiers in order to reduce stupidly high tier gaps, not further nerfs

[twin egret]

Dude got folded by a tank with less traverse than a T95

[muted rampart]

Lmao

[dawn hawk]

Neft premium tanks

[ancient rampart]

What about the ones that are already pretty garbage

[dawn hawk]

IS-6 💀

[hearty elbow]

When is the Tier 10 balance gonna happen?

[thorny timber]

season 5 iirc

[cursive pollen]

tier 7 and 9 nerf when

[thorny timber]

(insert nerf obj 752/Smasher/annihilator copypasta)

[ancient rampart]

why are we nerfing tier 9..

[thorny timber]

Not like they're keeping up with t10 cycling Meta anyways

Why not make them more irrelevant

[hearty elbow]

There’s gonna be a season five?

[ionic egret]

yeah

[remote sluice]

KV-JR is underwhelming

[stone drum]

Bad accuracy + Bad handling + Bad shell velocity + APCR is a truly diabolical combination.

Literally more effective to just spam HEAT

[native folio]

Add KV-1 Shielded, we have the T-34 already, why not add the KV

[woven escarp]

anyone wants a platoon X?

[nimble zodiac]

I’d rather them just buff KV-1 back so it actually can perform at all

[spiral cypress]

Hi,do you think that progetto 65 is still worth it?
I'm at standard b and I don't know if I should stop

[arctic storm]

Go for it, i had alot of fun in it

[spiral cypress]

Thanks,hope I will to

[barren goblet]

Prog 65 is good now, if balance changes happen as leaked, it will be useless

[gleaming wind]

funny enough that they will nerf Proggo, which is mid at max anc Carro, so they can add Lion, which wouldnt be relevant without that nerfs xd

[dense warren]

wg tripping on something to "balance" every tank in the game

[naive venture]

The good old days of kv-1 supremacy

[nova latch]

Why ho ri don't have buff and nerf? Is ho ri according to wargaming already balanced? Clearly is not.

[ancient rampart]

Ho-Ri is fine

[dense warren]

most chinese tanks should be lore accurate, made of plastic

[neon vector]

wtf is a buff and nerf

[nimble zodiac]

💀

[oak merlin]

aint no way

[neon vector]

"Buff and nerf" ???

[oak merlin]

buff: a tank's stat that goes up
nerf: a tank's stat that goes down

[undone ibex]

Where is player support?

[ember idol]

https://na.wargaming.net/support/en/

[gleaming vine]

lol

[arctic storm]

Whats lion

[ember idol]

Basically a Leo 1A3 with a ~12cm autoreloader

[arctic storm]

T10?

[ember idol]

yeah

[neon vector]

His sentence is just so absurd. Does he think teh Ho-Ri is too strong? Too weak? Does he want it to be buffed? Nerfed? He wasnts it to be buffed and nerfed??? Yes I know what buff and nerf is.

[oak merlin]

because ho ri is in an odd but balanced state where it’s pen and dpm is high for a td also that some of its mobility is limited

[gleaming wind]

Its combination between Leo and Carro

[nimble zodiac]

They mean a rebalance. A buff in some aspects with nerfs in other aspects to make a tank fit a differing playstyle than it used to have. For example, chieftain can lose some turret armor as a nerf for gaining increased mobility. It's a rebalance, though it can be thought of as a net buff or nerf. The playstyle becomes more aggressive against mediums

[neon vector]

thanks for clarifying

[nimble zodiac]

[pulsar zenith]

thweay should increase gravedigger interclip IMO

[viral stag]

Hello I'm deaf my live in Philippines. I was lost login my fb belong tank in Russian closed. Really sad 😭

[polar girder]

True maybe make it on par or similar to the 13 57..

[glad pond]

why

[pulsar zenith]

doing 560 damage every 12 seconds in tier 7 is too overpowered for a tank that has that much armour

[exotic onyx]

What's this tank?

[pulsar zenith]

gravedigger

[tough shell]

Lmao, now people are calling the gravedigger OP 😂😂😂

[barren goblet]

Its OP as top tier and meh in tier 8. Overall, balanced

[polar girder]

Within 6 seconds

[fierce flint]

What about Caliban 💀💀

[nimble zodiac]

14.86s is the total time

It’s not an OP tank. People went crazy over it when it first released, but it’s actually underwhelming as a tier 7 heavy unless you don’t think and simply afk in front of it when it’s loaded.

[remote oriole]

That is totally not a blatantly misrepresenting simplification

[nimble zodiac]

I dunno. I find that Grave has potential, but the autoloader it has isn’t well suited to dumping at other armored heavies, nor does it have the flexibility (rear turret, tall, meh gun depression) to use that against mediums at their flank.

[queen geyser]

When u have the right result but used the wrong formula

[stone drum]

Why?
@pulsar zenith in otherwords you lack the skill to counter it, understood.

[pulsar zenith]

it is annoying dying to it from people who spam it

[frigid sapphire]

Gravedigger being called OP because of a small in-between reload is crazy

[vital wagon]

"Overpowered" you say, the armour is not reliable, it has a poor pen and it only have 5° degress of gun depression, the tank is pretty Mid

[pine tundra]

Give fv215b183 tungsten shells and buff tungsten to deal 115-130% more damage and make the gun deal 1150 damage per shot and have a 18.6 second reload lol

[wicked quest]

https://tenor.com/view/crickets-crickets-chirping-silence-awkward-silence-gif-4144941840291649937

[twin egret]

They should make the gravedigger's gun similar to the AT 7 with the stock gun
Minus the bad pen

[stone drum]

suggestion for grave digger
-add 2 more shells to clip
-no other changes.

[void siren]

a better suggestion:

let me hold down the gun to spray all the shells everywhere

[oak merlin]

its gonna be an infinite ammo mg

[cyan coral]

Lol

[thin nest]

bro they should buff the VZ 55s lower plate if it is that big of a target for enemies.

[stone drum]

so they buff it, and its still pendable, what exactly does that change.

[uneven turtle]

They should make it be like vk 72s lower plate

Slightly weaker tho so that you can pen it if it’s facing you but if it’s angled you’ll have more trouble

It’ll still be easy to pen with prammo ofc

[thin nest]

no im saying when its in an angled position, it should be not be penned, and when its on flat ground, it should be maybe a 50/50 chance of penning the lower plate. (it will still be penned by premium ammo even angled or not)

[nimble zodiac]

Try not to make another IS-7 challenge

Type 71-esque? I was just making sure that's what you meant

[fickle shoal]

we clearly need more type 71 esc heavies

(inconsistent but troll armor)

[fickle shoal]

fixing the fact it's mobility is good on only one surface type would honestly be a massive buff to it already

[nimble zodiac]

I would literally play it if it had an exact copy-paste of AT7's stock gun. Prammo-reliant and everything.

[fickle shoal]

they should actually just remove it from the game ngl

[nimble zodiac]

Nah I love playing stock gun on AT7. Literally carried a game with another stock gun AT7 toonmate 😂

Oh you just don’t want Grave at all?
VK 72? Vz. 55? I’m confused

[fickle shoal]

wrong gun and tank

[barren goblet]

vz55 has bad terrain resistance. If it was more agile, it would be lot more popular. Armor profile is ok, gun is great

[chilly prism]

artillery don’t fire tungsten it’s too expensive and incompatible

mostly

[dense axle]

Buff is4, +20mm armmor

[barren goblet]

Bro forgot to ask for reticle calibration because refined gun buff didn't make 183 annoying enough

[neon vector]

WG should just make the 183 a heavy tank now with the current state of balancing

[true saddle]

Every 15 seconds, and that is only if you pen all 6 shots, and the armour is only ever really good against tier 6s, and they can still pen lower plate easily

On release it was OP, but there are many better tier 7 heavies now, including in the tech tree

[sharp viper]

Astron Rex buff when??

[uneven turtle]

It’s a strong enough tank

Id honestly prefer some better top speed at least

The gun is already accurate enough

[cinder shard]

I'd say it deserves a little love at least.
Nothing big, but at least some gun-handling or a tiny reload buff

[crude saffron]

Who knows what the equipment below is, I haven't found anything related?

MBT-B получит механику дозарядки;

[muted rampart]

Minus terrible intraclip

1s would be fine

[ember idol]

Something² close to autoreloading/reserve shell

[tired tinsel]

Gravedigger to now useless, DMG per shot is so low

[cinder shard]

However
6×90 = 540, which is about half of T6 tanks and quiet a lot for T7 tanks
The Gravedigger is really good against T6, okay against T7 and not the greatest against T8

[tired tinsel]

OK, its just on an older account I had the original Gravey and it was awesome

[tired tinsel]

but thanks for reply, I need to re-learn how to play that tank. Also, make sure each shot counts

[cinder shard]

Yeah, Auto(re)loaders are pretty much built on that. You need to make every shot count and manage trading

[tired tinsel]

[crude saffron]

Tanks getting PBR soon:

Object 907
Object 260
M18 Hellcat
M41 Bulldog
Panther II
Tortoise

[ancient rampart]

Bulldog LETS GO

[jolly venture]

Panther 2 but no panther 1. All the classic WW2 tanks should get PBR. Sherman, Panzer 4, T-34...

[hard cloud]

Where can I see the balance changes coming to tier ten tanks?

[remote oriole]

There are none announced

[cinder shard]

Those were only leaks and probably not the full list.
Some other servers have them posted somewhere

[dusky hawk]

buff t57 heavy

[barren goblet]

Buff what. Tank is really good aside reverse speed but it seems to be a theme to make autoloaders miserable in that way. Fv4005 and t57 always take a shot back before they can reverse

[narrow raft]

he can got 6-8mm in the armour

[rough sandal]

O-I tank on blitz as premium

[nimble zodiac]

I wish

[tender gust]

Yes

[viral wasp]

Make 183 collector tank then allow us to put 183 gun on FV 4005

[barren goblet]

Or just delete 183 and give no one compensation 😎

[tawdry fulcrum]

We all say get rid of the 183 but why not get rid of the 183

[nimble zodiac]

Gambling machine

[viral wasp]

No it just that fv215 doesn't fit there, i think fv4005 with 183 gun is better

[wicked quest]

No

[viral wasp]

Actually yes, the whole line have hesh and single shot Then why would fv4005 don't have hesh and have autoloader, make autoloader gun the second choice for it which u need exp point for cause it better, it just not as fun as 183

Actually the 183 gun and other derp gun make us learn to be patient as it take a while to reload, it might not help with your skill at all but it teach us how to have fun, the fact the tank is bad doesn't mean that you can't have fun with it, we came here for fun not for winning

[wicked quest]

No and get out. The 183 is problematic first off , the 4005 is better and has access to consumables the autoloader has way more use than the 183 and is by far the funnest autoloader to use aggressively. The polar opposite of the 4005

[viral wasp]

But the whole reason the 183 needs to be changed is because it differs a lot from the line, at2 at8 at7 at15 and toitorse all have good armor and very fast shooting gun, then the 183 is paper thin and reload very slow. And for the fv4005 it is pretty much the same no hesh, and has an autoloader which differs so much from the Challenger Charioteer and Conway. At least make the 183 stock gun on the fv4005 to make it not too different from it tech tree

[wicked quest]

Again no what don’t you get the 183 gun is problematic even then 4005 holds more in common with charioteer ,Conway and challenger because they play almost the same. 183 lines consistency is slow dpm hose that trades it for everything at the end

[viral wasp]

Hell no, it is completely different, the fact that it has an autoloader has already made it different, the play style is also different as it is an autoloader with long reload, and conway? It is just 12 sec for at it most (at 50% crew of course) yes, the 183 is problematic as it has low dpm but that doesn't matter, what matters is the fact it differs! Don't u understand what i said???

[wicked quest]

Dpm isn’t the 183s issue it’s problem is it can nuke any tanks HP which you conveniently left out lol. And the autoloader is just an evolution of the fast firing guns of charioteer and Conway (why the hell are you talking about a tank if it’s not even fully trained then) 4005 has higher prem pen than other 120mms which is insanely good at tearing heavies aggressively

[viral wasp]

I was talking about it MOST, and about the 183 dam, the fact that u can do it because it is its PURPOSE LOL the fact that 183 gun was even fit on tanks was to destroy enemy very well armored tank in 1 shot as lengthening the fight would be disastrous as the enemy tank at the time was too good for it time IS-3 and IS-7, IS-7 was made with 1000mm of EFFECTIVE ARMOR (counting the angle of the armor as that what effective armor is), the fact it is bad in the game is because the are just too OP so it need to be nerfed, even though these tank wasn't made to production (as USSR don't need small number of tank that is very good rather than large number of good enough medium tank)

[wicked quest]

First they aren’t 1000mm effective did you get that from warthunder or something. And purpose or not it’s an a huge issue at tier 10. Last parts means nothing that was entirely unnecessary. I’m going to assume you just play derp guns for a living as you only care about “fun” rather than “winning”

[viral wasp]

Bro doesn't know his fact, at 60-80 degree the effective armor would be very tough to pen, we all know that too well so i won't talk about it, the fact is, hesh always only counts actual armor as it has squash head of course, the angle of the is7 can get up to 75 from the front (even though it is most likely to recochet) it effective armor is up to 1000

[wicked quest]

Is7s armor which was the most effectively thick until obj 279 would be defeated 10 years after it debuted and by 20 years IS7 was effectively butter to penetrate again this isn’t relevant at all to the games balance. The 183mm shell doesn’t need to penetrate its sheer mass and size alone will shatter and explode the IS7 without needing to penetrate

[viral wasp]

That is why they need an 183mm gun in the first place, fighting head on with IS-7 is too dangerous and could result in a disastrous result, the 183 gun is never made into production as IS-7 also not made into production, and they also have apds in production now and an 183mm gun would be useless. @wicked quest about that, the is7 have enough armor so the shockwave won't knock the crew out, yes obj 279 got even better at it as it is meant to withstand nuke shockwave, so 183mm hesh shockwave is no match, but in any other way, USSR tank is too op until that collapse happened

[wicked quest]

Also again where is this effective value coming from??? The pike nose??? That design element was dropped because it can’t produce good effective protection anymore. Only e100 and maus achieved raw 1000mm effectiveness.

Again no is7 wasn’t armored enough they tested the 183mm against the conquerer and it split the mantlet in half while it ripped the centurions turret off the hull. Russian tanks would not be immune to HESH until era meaning 279 also wasn’t immune

[prisma jetty]

The development of HESH rounds from the British was in response to the IS-3, they didn’t even know the IS-7 was in development.

[viral wasp]

No! Have u ever heard of space armor it is always a cheap option against he, heat and hesh as they rely on shockwave or sonic beam, u can watch H1MIN vid on this, the shockwave and the sonic beam reduce with distance the further it is the lower pen it is, this have been used by both side by axis and allies and @prisma jetty i thought the US knew?

[prisma jetty]

No, the IS-7 wasn’t on anyone’s radar. It was just the IS-3, and then later the IS-8 that the allies worried about

[wicked quest]

Battle of golan heights and the 6 days war proved spaced armor isn’t enough to stop HESH

[twin egret]

183 needs to be more of a frontline tank than anything tbh. Make the gun only work at close range while buffing the armor and nerfing the mobility. problem solved. Now it's forced to go with heavies most of the time

[viral wasp]

Dude don't u get it? There are many different spaced armor, the further it is from the tank the better it is, though most use space armor with 0.5meter in between, there u go, another fact that u don't understand

[wicked quest]

Spaced armor also stopped being effective against heat since the 70s composite is the best protection against HEAT along with ERA

You’ve randomly said IS7 is 1000mm effective and never said where this is from you don’t seem to understand how the game works now how actual tank technology works

[prisma jetty]

Most spaced armor was not enough to stop the sheer mass of a small child being launched at hundreds of miles as hour. Most modern tanks would struggle with the sheer kinetic force that an explosion of that size would produce

[viral wasp]

Bruh don't you understand, the reason that all those things is not effective is

1. The heat can pen up to 800 mm upfront
2. APFSDS exist so composite armor become bad
3. ERA is 1 time use
   And this game is even based on WW2 and post WW2 (50s)
   So all you said is wrong as these technologies are older and worse than current apfsds and heat

[prisma jetty]

1. Sure, but that’s against tanks that currently have over 1000mm of effective armor against HEAT shells. Theres a reason modern HEAT shells are only used against light tanks.

2. Modern composite armor is rather good against modern APFSDS rounds.

3. Yes, but if you’re being shot multiple times in the same place you messed up anyways. The idea of ERA is to protect you so that you can fire back and get the kill before the enemy can shoot again

[wicked quest]

You said is7 is 1000mm effective and still refuse to say where that came from. Heat missiles have achieved over 1000+mm effective penetration. That’s the point of ERA
.IS7 was designed almost immediately after the war ended and used raw thickness in its pike nose. Only the sides used spaced armor

[frigid sapphire]

The flow of this discussion is something else

From suggesting fv4005 to have a 183mm in-game to IS-7 arguement.

[viral wasp]

Also 3 thing:

1. They only have composite armor during the 60s and heat were very effective
2. The apfsds are mostly blocked by era the composite armor didn't do much in current day
3. Enemy got era too, it is a fact that we also can't pen era

[prisma jetty]

1. Composite armor is still used to this day??? Sure it first came around in the 60s with the T95 being the first idea of composite and the T-64 being the first serial production tank to actually use it, but modern composite armor has come a long way.

2. ERA is almost ineffective against composite armor, right now only the Russian Relict ERA has a large effect, every other type of ERA is essentially negligible against kinetic penetrators.

3. You can pen ERA, things such as long rods exist as well as tandem charge HEAT rounds.

[wicked quest]

All I said was “you’re stupid for wanting a 183mm on 4005.” Explaining why that will never happen then he tried to be smart saying some bizarre claim about IS7

[viral wasp]

Yep only the side have spaced armor, the pike nose and the turret cheek is 1000mm due to it shape, but heat is bad at angle anyway, @prisma jetty again 3 reason:

1. Composite armor is still used to this day on the front plate, but APFSDS have always been a good counter
2. ERA explode to reduce all type of force using shockwave, kenetic shot is no use
3. Aren't we talking about 70s in this one? Those technology wasn't invented then

[wicked quest]

1No era counters kinetic projectiles
2. IS7s turret is raw thickness making use of slopes it’s not ANYWHERE near 1000mm thick stop using that number if your not gonna show proof
3. Tandem has been tested since the 70s

[prisma jetty]

1. As I said before, modern composite armor is pretty good against APFSDS.

2. ERA makes a shockwave sure, but a long rod penetrator has so much kinetic energy that the shockwave barely affects it, if at all.

3. You’re the one who said ERA can’t be penetrated, I was just showing examples of shells that can penetrate it.

[viral wasp]

1 no, modern eras have good kenetic protection as they have a good amount of explosive, sth even too much,
2. Well... It gonna recochet anyway, but turret check can be as thigh as that if you count it bizarre turret shape
3. Keyword: test
@prisma jetty

1. APFSDS is still able to pen composite armor it just don't deal as much damage as in the past
2. Read the one i said above
3. We are still talking about 70s right?

[prisma jetty]

1. Very rarely will APFSDS go through modern armor unless it hits a part without composite.

2. The only ERA that is able to disrupt kinetic penetrators is Relict, which isn’t even in mass production yet.

3. The technology I talked about was used in the 70’s.

[wicked quest]

1.no? Ap travels too fast for the shockwave of ERA to effect it
2. The same applies here
3. Composite armor doesn’t stop spalling
Did you get your info off of YouTube lol

[frigid sapphire]

This makes the Agreement and Disagreement seperate universes.

Disagreement and denial is truly a terrifying factor as it develops further complication to both parties and gradually changes the topic as time passes on.

This is truly peak humanity of all time

[viral wasp]

1. Bruh, the conflict already shown us why composite armor is useless nowadays most weapon can pen it not even talking about missile can pen tank from the top
   2, learn history bro, tandem is made cause kenetic was also useless (in the past) if kenetic was good enough to pen era why waste money on tandem. Kenetic missile exist
2. Tandem and long rod were tested in 70s not used in real combat (i only remember about Vietnam as i am Vietnamese i can be wrong)
   @wicked quest
   1 same as above
   2, most shell of it time only able to pen at around 70°
3. When did i said it stop spalling

[frigid sapphire]

Live reaction

[prisma jetty]

1. The conflict hasn’t shown us anything like that lol, where are you getting your news from?

2. Tandem was created because normal HEAT rounds were useless, not kinetic penetrators…

3. The same can be said about a lot of weapons, that doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

[wicked quest]

1. Composite is the only reason why tanks don’t get destroyed from front hits genius

2. Again no. Tandem was designed to specifically defeat ERA which older missiles and HEAT rounds weren’t capable of doing kinetic was for tanks
   3.Every tank combat since the introduction of the M1A1 abrams has used long rods

“Apfsds will still penetrate composite armor it just don’t deal as much damage as the past”

[clear shuttle]

how did these wall of texts start

[viral wasp]

Buddy... First thing first

1. Explain why most tanks were destroyed with shot DIRECTLY ON THE COMPOSITE ARMOR PLATE. Russia prefers M-kill though
2. If u can already pen it with something that's a lot better, why would u do it
3. Doesn't mean they don't exist? Yes, but they stm aren't practical
   @wicked quest
4. As above
5. As above
6. 80s not 70s
7. Buddy... The whole point is to make spalling wider and faster but more armor mean that it going slower slower mean less damage

[wicked quest]

Know what I’m not gonna continue further as you’ve said absolutely nothing worth of value with 0 proof your a weird specimen.

End of the day 4005 will never get its 183mm

[prisma jetty]

1. Most tanks were not killed through composite armor. Not sure where you got that from, but it’s wrong.

2. Because some weapon systems cannot use APFSDS, such as man portable ATGMs.

3. Except they both have been used in combat so they are rather practical lmao.

[twin egret]

God, this is worse than the arguments on the WT forums

[viral wasp]

Did u say anything with proof? I accepted that u don't have proof and u saying that lol
@prisma jetty

1. Well... Don't matter if it is still penetrable
2. That's what top attack missile is for? Javelin as an example
3. They were in testing during the time we were talking about, yes they are practical but it wasn't used in combat during the time we talking about
   @twin egret well that guy demand proof so... i not going do it like WT forum guy

[frigid sapphire]

They are straight to the point unlike this one

[wicked quest]

Depending on back armor also why the hell did the French make a grenade AP round? I’ll show in #vehicles-discussion

[prisma jetty]

1. It’s not penetrable, that’s why tanks aren’t knocked out through their composite armor…

2. Top attack is one way, but that doesn’t detract from tandem charges being effective.

3. Long rods were used in the time period, not sure what you’re talking about.

[fickle shoal]

yippee another college essay to start reading!

[ember idol]

I'm sorry but saying composite armour is useless is like saying don't drink water because it'll drown you

[viral wasp]

Idk how this happened but i only need the fv4005 to have 183 gun and a different tank like badger or sth for the current 183 tech tree @prisma jetty

1. Bro??? No protection is good enough to block everything
2. Yes but why waste money to slove a problem that is already sloved
3. No combat seen
   @ember idol i didn't say they useless, they just not as effective as some other

[prisma jetty]

1. Then show some examples of tanks being penetrated through their composite. I’ll wait.

2. Because sometimes top attack isn’t effective? Utilizing different rounds means that now the enemy has to protect against everything, not just top attack.

3. Combat was seen, but whatever. You seem to be incredibly ignorant, refusing to actually look up what you’re talking about and instead using random arguments with 0 basis behind them.

[viral wasp]

Bro.... You are the one too ignorant, no protection is enough, but leopard 2 with composite armor all over it can be destroyed then what the point (maybe not the back but doesn't matter)
2. Javelin destroyed a lot of t90 with 1 shot
3 we talking about 70s aren't we

[prisma jetty]

1. Again, tanks have been knocked out from above and the side.

2. Yeah, the Javelin uses a tandem charge warhead, so thanks for supporting my point lol.

3. Yes, and those technologies were used. Again, you’re too ignorant to actually do research.

[viral wasp]

1 again leopard 2 have been destroyed from the side which means you can pen it composite armor leopard 2 have side composite armor
2. Javelin does but it doesn't come in use much as russian only have few tank with top era so nothing can said any further about this
3. No combat was seen with long rod during 70s? Yes APFSDS can pen era but stm not enough

[wicked quest]

Leo 2 only has composite in the sides past the driver

[ember idol]

Leo 2 does not have any in-built composite armour on the sides, the best it has is additional applique armour for the A5 variants and above

Jav works, it was made to counter the strength and exploit the weakness of Russian tank design

Long rods have seen combat since Yom Kippur '73

[prisma jetty]

1. Leopard 2 side has very little composite. Do your research, it’s effective armor on the side is nowhere near as much as the front.

2. The tandem warhead does come into use, especially against Russian tanks which utilize a large amount of ERA.

3. Combat was seen with long rods in the 70s.

[viral wasp]

Turret too? It only have some composite block but except for the back turret have composite block all over the plate and anyway we are sidetracked. Fv4005 need to have 183
@ember idol turret
Thank for strengthening my point
Oh ok i mostly study my country history (Vietnam)
@prisma jetty
1 very little but doesn't mean it is not, it still penetrable
2 yes they have lot of era but not on top
3. Ok

[prisma jetty]

1. You talk a lot about effective armor but you still don’t seem to know how it works. The main armor of a tank is in the front, so show me some examples of the front of tanks being penetrated.

2. See the image attached, it’s a T-72 with a standard ERA layout, including on top of the turret.

[viral wasp]

1. Effective armor is only mentioned once. And the angle matter, and sidetracked you were saying composite armor is impenetrable
2. t90 don't mostly t72 and t80 have era on top, i was talking about t90

[prisma jetty]

1. I never said it was impenetrable, and you provided only one example. Like I said before, the Leo 2 has very little composite armor on its sides.

2. Again, a show of your lack of research. Here’s a T-90 with a standard ERA loadout and again, ERA on the top.

[ember idol]

My point stands, one of the few critiques of the Leo 2 was the weak side turret armour, as demonstrated by how Turkey lost their Leo 2 in Syria

[viral wasp]

1. Yes u did (read the one i replied to)
2. Do you know that many Russian tanks aren't well armed like that due to the need of emergency support?
   @ember idol i agreed that you are right except the first 1 being that leo 2 have composite block

[prisma jetty]

1. I was talking about frontal armor, obviously side armor is going to be penetrable. Modern tanks are made for a 60 degree protection arc from the front.

2. That doesn’t change the fact that they have ERA on top. It’s not my fault you don’t do your research on the topics you tank about.

[ember idol]

Ah yes

My very thin composite armour blocks, practically useless towards a side-on engagement

[viral wasp]

1. No you aren't you were saying that no composite armor can be pened in the one i reply to
2. It actually most but yes, tandem charge still don't do much as most aren't well armed like that. That was a parade tank
   @ember idol it still exist lol, composite armor is still composite armor

[prisma jetty]

1. I wasn’t talking about side armor lol, that would be a bit ridiculous. The only reason the side armor is there is for infantry made warheads, not full tank rounds. Show me any example of a tank being penetrated through its frontal composite.

2. Tandem charge does do a lot considering something without a tandem charge wouldn’t go through that, but I guess that research is too hard for you.

[quick goblet]

Guys stick to topic plz its balance discussion not war thunder leaks come on

[clear shuttle]

i dont think their going to change the 4005 to a single shot 183mm any time soon

[viral wasp]

1. It doesn't change what you said, you insisted no composite plate can be pen
2. It doesn't come to use if the eras is not there
   @quick goblet don't worry no doc will be leaked, it the fact that they keep insisting they are right i was talking about how fv4005 should have 183 gun
   @clear shuttle i know but better try to persuade them than try to wait for them to change their mind

[prisma jetty]

1. Oh yeah bro, I was 100% talking about side armor that isn’t meant to stop anything more than smaller warheads!

2. Except the ERA is there most of the time, it’s standard for Russian tanks to have ERA on top lmao.

[ember idol]

Hell even the Ukraine war showed the T-90 does in fact have ERA on top

Literally just look up Oryx

[quick goblet]

Yes FV4005 should habe the gun but wg will not do that Also why is this 1.30min long Also the 183 hesh shell was made to take out early cold armor like IS-3

[viral wasp]

Buddy read your own text, you said composite armor can't be pened
@ember idol some does some doesn't
And it was early war, look at the date. The fact that emergency support wasn't needed let them arm eras
@quick goblet thank you for supporting but we can at least persuade them than wait right

[prisma jetty]

I’m sorry that context doesn’t exist to you anymore. Nowhere was there a mention of side composite, so I wasn’t thinking about it lol.

[nimble zodiac]

At least move this to vehicles discussion so you have cooldown speed

[ember idol]

4k5 simply wouldn't get the 183 for balancing reason

WG cannot let a rat going ~40km/h dishing out 1k dmg in a single shot with how cramped maps are in Blitz

some does some doesn't
And it was early war, look at the date. The fact that emergency support wasn't needed let them arm eras
What

[quick goblet]

Reason why 183 should be removed I just did 8k im mad games and did not take Chieftain out to dinner in the first shot. Point is I rather not see the 183 in any form

[viral wasp]

Doesn't matter tho? Composite armor is composite armor
@ember idol yes, but... The fact that it is not recently meant it is once true in the past but now? I don't think so
@quick goblet it rather too op with that reload, make it reload like 30 sec (50% crew) or sth

[clear shuttle]

it dosent matter what happens because 80% of the 183s in my game regardless of gamemode manage to get one, sometimes 0 shots in a whole game

[ember idol]

I just did 8k im mad games and did not take Chieftain out to dinner in the first shot.

1. Selective bias + unreliable method of gauging something
2. Your point did not address the issue

@viral wasp Those ERAs are pre-built on the tank right from the factory...

[quick goblet]

The reasoning for a 30 sec long bad is the maps are small game the game lasts 1-min. Like I said I am all for FV005 for the 183mm gun but. I much rather have the FV251 183 remove and replaced.

[viral wasp]

How bad can your teammates be? Seriously what?
@ember idol some aren't armed era even when it just rolled out of the factory cause they are really in need of tank
@quick goblet most game last like 3 min tho, but 30 sec for no crew is good enough maybe 20 sec with max crew?

[clear shuttle]

obviously bad enough to make games 6v7s because you know that one 183 will either actually be good or straight up useless

[ember idol]

some aren't armed era even when it just rolled out of the factory cause they are really in need of tank
Yeah you don't know joke crap about this, this is useless behaviour

[viral wasp]

Buddy... U aren't keeping up with date are u?
@clear shuttle at least they don't block your shot and push u when you need to retreat, i always die like that

[quick goblet]

I see the point but with the 183 gameplay its so hit or miss its jast not enjoyable unless in modes. My though make the 183 only playable in gamemodes

[frigid sapphire]

How is this still on-going

[quick goblet]

Eh I said my peace about 183

[viral wasp]

Yep, but if they add 183 to fv4005 it would add a lot of weight and make it way slower with paper thin armor
@frigid sapphire idk but i guess it is still arguable

[quick goblet]

You know you are talking about the Stage 2 I am happy that you do not want the Stage 1 design.

[fierce gorge]

Egg

[twin egret]

I, too, just did 8k damage, and it was instead in the 4005... any tank with offensive capabilities(i.e. irradiator, half-life discharge) is well enough capable to do 8k in mad games.

[viral wasp]

I don't like stage 1 cause it not why they need it as it is just an interchange but since this is dpm and hp based then stage 1 would be better so make it the gun that need research point

[quick goblet]

The stage 1 design is something else. I really would not want that in the game. @twin egret yea but it still dumb to do that much with the 183. I am afraid that the 183 is getting the buffed in accuracy I could do more

[viral wasp]

This channel is so calm now🤔

[quick goblet]

Its jsit that its late for me

[clear shuttle]

sooo a worse 183

[viral wasp]

Well worse armor with better speed

[neon vector]

Conqueror not getting its turret shields and 10 degrees of gun depression is baffling

[cinder shard]

What do you mean? The Conqueror is really strong as it is, imo it doesn't need the armor or more flexibility, that would make it straight up overpowered in the hands of experienced players.

[neon vector]

Historical accuracy but this a arcade shooter game and no one cares

[cinder shard]

Exactly
Looks at Smasher, Vulcan, Groundtank and so on

[void siren]

super conqueror - pay up!!!

[teal sonnet]

even wot pc has the shields on be default, blitz should have it too for the tier 9 conqueror. heck if the tier 10 tank gets the spaced on the turret its gonna be such a better tank

[leaden flare]

you really want conq to be even more busted ?

[twin egret]

The spaced armour would just make the turret more easily pennable

[regal iris]

Hey I have a proposal for buffing t49 armor and it’s a viable option due to it actually was a thing when the tank saw battle irl…

Without further tangent I’d like to propose the T49 get a armor buff through a camo (would be first of its kind for wotb if I’m not mistakened). It should be a mix of moss/foliage and wooden boards for sides and 180 degree of wooden boards around the back of the turret. Or if that may be too much to create and render, there can be slat armor in the same places around the tank. This would LOWER the possibility of direct effects of HE or HEAT sells, giving the 49 a chance to have a better battle survivability. And shoot to make it fair give all the light tanks in the same class of t49 the same idea of slat armor, make it whole game update and call it AMBUSH!! or something like that 🤷‍♂️

KEEP IN MIND THIS IDEA WONT DO A HP BUFF BUT JUST GIVE THE LIGHT TANKS A CHANCE TO ACTUALLY SURVIVE A BATTLE AND DO SOME DMG

[lost crane]

So you want to make all light tank like the Sheridan ?

[regal iris]

I clearly said I wouldn’t want to raise the HP on the tank. Also Sheridan is not in the same tier of T49. Also lastly as of rn without slat armor the Sheridan can take a poorly placed HE/HEAT and walk it off. Can’t say the same for t49 and its counterparts

[lost crane]

Nah, I mean fully covered with spaced armour
Btw, I’m for an hp buff for t8 light, they should all have between 1300 and 1350

[regal iris]

Eh I mean if we keep things in perspective of armor (IRL) the Sheridan is supposed to be more state of the art when it comes to how the armor is placed on that tank as it was supposed to be the successor to T49. Mind you T49 was a jump into the unknown with literally time not being on the side of the ones who created that tank. So of course the armor placement was kinda wack (a cardboard box on tracks) I’m just want to provide a solution to that weakness using the idea that was actually proposed irl.

And yeah I’d like a buff of hp across the board for all t8 lights that have sub 1300 hp as of rn.
@lost crane

[ember idol]

https://tenor.com/view/omw-to-spread-misinformation-all-over-the-internet-gif-26525511

[regal iris]

How sway, it’s literally all across the internet. The real t49 was first released and saw battle towards the tail end of the Vietnam war. It’s noted that when they were in battle, they would come across more problems of the environment than the actual enemy. But when they did come across the enemy the T49 irl version had serious problems of getting penned by some of the smaller sized anti tank weapons, mainly HE/HEAT charges (aside from AT cannons and other tanks) at the time. So they combated that by using wood, fencing, cardboard, etc and they saw it was a bit effective against those shells but definitely were disabled going against heavier rounds (the obvious) .At that point the war was coming to an end and when it was time to remake and upgrade irl t49 (which would be irl Sheridan) there were some more mechanical and armor problems and funding issues and they just dropped the plans even though they were blueprinted…

[severe basin]

Ok but this is a game

[unique scaffold]

With that logic wg should put concrete on the Shermans

[ember idol]

First and foremost, the T49 was a dead-end project towards upgunning the aging M41s and ended up as a testbed for the M81 rifled gun launcher, the one used on the M551 Sheridan

If there was any mentions of the T49 fighting in Vietnam, there would be multiple accounts by the military and researchers about it, yet no record of it fighting in Vietnam emerged

Now how would a tank that never got a production run fought in Vietnam from 1955 till 1975 without any extensive field documentation and survive on non-existent spare parts?

That's right, because you're bluffing

[regal iris]

Yeah a game that has half of its tanks coming from literally irl blueprints AND HAVE NOT EVEN SEEN BATTLE

[frigid goblet]

calling some drunk napkin designs blueprints is weird

[severe basin]

Well like a wise man once said fun is not realism

[regal iris]

Mind you there were hella variants of the 1600 produced (including a variant that we see in this games labeled as t49…) and like I said it was at the tail end of Vietnam war.

Also I try to pull some parts of the realism into my arguments cause SOMETIMES wg and WOTB takes that into consideration even tho most of the times they play darts blindfolded with whatever they hit they make it into a tank @severe basin @frigid goblet

[ember idol]

Literally only 2 were made

None of these 2 rats fought in Vietnam, more to being stuck in devhell of Aberdeen

[frigid goblet]

dont ping me or i will ping u

[regal iris]

Ok so you changed our story from there was none to now theirs 2 produced, choose a battle bruh.

[ember idol]

Are you clueless or ignorant

It was made in extremely limited number of which were converted M41s which means it doesn't warrant a full production run

And at no point did I say there were none

[unique scaffold]

Gaslighting moment

[regal iris]

@ember idol
Definitely did say no production run but it was produced and then turret change after all said and done that sounds like production run to me…

Anyways All I’m trying to highlight is there was an attempt to get the idea of slat armor on the tank and I just want that in this game. Weather it was a napkin drawing by @frigid goblet standards or a non-existent and existent tank to your standards. If they gonna have a sand tank from a movie or a crawdad-bayou-looking fence camo on IS I’d like to see some actually usable slat armor on t49 and its counterparts in T8 👍

[rare plover]

did they remove the mechanic from the 907?

[frigid goblet]

i have no idea what are i talking about ask me again in 30min busy drinking beer now

[prisma jetty]

Technically only 1 was made, the second was designated T67 and was changed a bit

[ember idol]

The point I'm criticizing you about is bending history to your own will to the point it completely deviates from what actually happens and trying to play it off as something that happens

Have your delusions of alt-history away from facts

[unique scaffold]

2 tanks does not count as production run lol, production run of a tank is when a tank is mass produced with a assembly line for it. I cant find any source of t49 having any sort of spaced armor unless your talking about Sheridan which is different tank

Slat armor is arguably a form of spaced armor

[regal iris]

Never said t49 having spaced armor 🤦‍♂️ that’s not even the point I’m making

[wicked quest]

You do know T49 irl is not the M41 hull with the Sheridan turret right? That was a testbed that never received a name T49 was a 90mm prototype of bulldog

[regal iris]

I understand that

[wicked quest]

So neither did the 90mm prototype or the Sheridan testbed see ANY service that wild claim it was released onto battle is hilarious as hell

In addition Sheridan was a tin can time bomb nothing about it was state of the art, and bulldog was nothing more than an aluminum hull

Its unusual shape was to make it amphibious which was half successful not at all for protection

[remote sluice]

beautiful

[unreal urchin]

Is the balance changes they are going to make across all T10s going to happen when they update the game on the 13th/14th?

[muted rampart]

no

[viral wasp]

Add 183 mm gun to fv4005

[ruby agate]

No not until the fv 183 gets removed or something

[viral wasp]

But still... 183 mm gun on fv4005, there is no reason to add an autoloader to the tier 10 tank if the tank before it don't

[fickle shoal]

do you really want a 183 that can go 40+ km/h and is harder to spot?

at most the 4005 could get the conways top gun with some more dpm, but otherwise no 183 on it

[viral wasp]

U think changing from that gun won't add like 5 ton? It won't be that fast, and it got paper thin armor, another way is to nerf it to 20 sec at 100% crew unlike 20 sec at 50% crew like right now

[oak merlin]

buh the 4005 was intended to mount the 183 gun irl anyways
make wg the 183 gun on 4005 another option besides the 123mm autoloader gun

[fickle shoal]

thats cool and all but this game isn't realistic, balance will always be a priority over realism

@viral wasp so that just makes it worse than the 183? 💀

[prisma jetty]

The 4005 with a 183 would be way more toxic than the current 183 we have

[viral wasp]

No? It will still retain some of its speed and I am talking about nerfing 183 gun either way,
@prisma jetty if u understand that fv4005 will have paper thin armor with decent speed and a decent gun, it will be better in gravity mode as the weight also increases. The 123mm gun will be the second option which makes it as good as current fv4005

[prisma jetty]

I understand perfect well what a 183 gun on the 4005 would look like, and it would be terrible for the game. Even the current 183 is toxic for the game, having that gun on a platform that is way more mobile is not a good idea in the slightest.

[viral wasp]

Not really, the armor is he-able (i use 120mm gun) and the mobility will be worse like i said, maybe 25 km/h at best, and the current 183 is not he able without hesh so this is just a normal trade off, armor for some mobility, which allow you to not just camp at 1 spot the whole game

[prisma jetty]

It’s not going to lose 15km/h lmao, you’re way overestimating the effect maybe 1 or 2 tons of extra weight will have. And it has way more camo than the current 183, meaning it will indeed be able to camp in 1 spot the whole game.

[viral wasp]

Maybe it is not 5 or 6 tons like i guess but the fact that it has mobility so you are not forced to camp in one place and can be aggressive if you wanted to. And it probably should have it engine nerfed anyway

[sacred folio]

did they remove tracer shells from 907 in the new update?

[scenic hazel]

yea they did, insane huh

[dense axle]

Buff is4 😭

[sacred folio]

secret nerf?

[remote sluice]

yea they did, shame on them. it made the tank fun man bruh

[storm bluff]

Buff IS-4 and Type71

[teal sonnet]

https://tenor.com/view/absolutely-konosuba-kazuma-anime-gif-5888131960987226684

[hoary basin]

no they didnt its just a visual bug in the statistics menu (i tested the tank with a friend and the tracer affect is still happening)

[viral wasp]

Hell no that too op

[wispy zinc]

No it needs better aim time at least the consumable it's aim is already horrible

[ancient rampart]

No it doesn’t

[severe basin]

make the aim time and dispersion both worse

[thorny timber]

It has almost the same handling as an is7 and double and even triple the alpha with hesh

[ancient rampart]

It's actually wild how accurate the 183 is lol

[twin egret]

actual dispersion values in game are 0.346
that number will go down to around 0.336 if the suggested buffs for the tank are followed

[thorny timber]

They should be thankful that it drops below .38 even without refined in the first place, it should've barely touched .37-38 + refined tbh

[severe basin]

Should be .4 no matter what
With 5 years of aiming time

[cursive yacht]

Yes, absolutely. It is very easy to get 4k or more in the tank. (Depending on the map of course)

[faint merlin]

Can someone from wargaming watch the changes that Droodles Blitz suggest ? https://youtu.be/Pues-febKpM?si=odK0pxk_g-Ztnzad

[mighty bluff]

U wish

[ruby agate]

No

[dreamy oar]

Would nerfing some T10 heavy tanks pen make higher tier games better

[dapper zenith]

it would make players that have minimal credits at a disadvantage because players that have many credits, would spit prammo more and more

[dreamy oar]

I meant for both prammo and regular ammo. Would having their pen lowered abit make for better balancing for the heavily armored tanks. I’m not saying to drastically lower the pen, only just a little, especially for heat

[uneven turtle]

Reverting cali buff has always been a complaint btw

[chilly prism]

stock m60 looks 2D remodel please

[unreal urchin]

Has the grille15 and Wz 113GFT balance changes been leaked yet or no?

[prisma jetty]

No

[unreal urchin]

Alright thanks!

[remote sluice]

907 didnt lose tracer shells btw

[viral wasp]

Nerf gravedigger

[frigid sapphire]

🔥

What nerf do you even propose.

[spark shard]

Nerf RNG itself

[thorny timber]

Gravedigger has a problem similar to black prince

Good when an uptier, absolutely crappy when a lowtier

[frozen warren]

at least the gravedigger has speed to flank, black prince just crawls to its death

[tough trout]

That would be nice. Had a game recently, driving Chimera. Had 490 something hp.Faced the same Chimera with less than 400. Had first shot at him and dealed 382 damage. Was destroyed by his shot. He missed the previous shot, therefore, no crew skill with max damage for him. Was a little bit frustrated, to say the least.

[gaunt zodiac]

I think M-V-Yoh should have 16-18sec reload for 2 shot magazine insted of 21sec

For example take FV4005 it has 4 shots in magazine and it has 24 sec reload but dmg is 70-120 less than M-V-Yoh and this math kinda doesnt math because 3 sec difference and 400-500dmg difference

I know .... 1 is heavy other one is TD but still

Magazines work weird in Blitz

[plain wagon]

Double shot gun has always been a problem to be balanced. If you just adjust its stats too much, the tank will gain massive benefit and make the battle more one-side.
T77 has bad accuracy, long reload to balance the 800 alpha per clip or else, it will do too much and destroy the heavy side really fast.

[gaunt zodiac]

Nerf Random Number Generator ?? Bruh do you even understand what you wrote?😆😆😆

[gaunt zodiac]

I sold my T77 because it has the worst accuracy

[severe basin]

Difference being the yoh can deal 900 dmg in far less time not really giving you anytime to avoid the second shot

With zero downsides

[nimble zodiac]

Using the average between 16 and 18, a 17 second reload would leave the M-V-Yoh's DPM to be 2886, about the same as T110E5 (this is vents/rammer on the respective tank, btw). A heavy tank that can dish out 900 damage within 2 seconds should not have the same DPM as a tank in tier 10 that deals 400 and has to wait >8 seconds to do more damage

[glad pond]

no

[opal pelican]

When will the BZ75 get a buff?

[viral wasp]

Actually? The fact that the tier X is not much better than the tier IX make it reason able to buff the mi6yoh but not mi5yoh like he said

[neat fractal]

doesnt need one😋

[severe pumice]

Nah BZ-75 get's armoracked

[nimble zodiac]

Having 500 more DPM, 2 degrees more gun depression, more accuracy, and generally more mobility with the same kind of playstyle that M-V-Yoh has makes the M-VI-Yoh an easily competitive heavy in tier 10 pubs.

Buffing the total reload time is just counteracting the disadvantage both tanks have. A long reload time after the burst is the opportunity to push against the tanks. Many other heavies can't even get their second shot off before taking their third and fourth shell, not to mention the protection the Yohs would probably have from teammates.

[severe basin]

So you want to buff a tank that can basically do the same amount of dmg as a 183 but with miles better gun handling? Yea hell naw its already busted

[neat fractal]

yoh is broken and annoying

[severe pumice]

so you boring with yoh tank?

[nimble zodiac]

If you like doing 900 damage quickly while being in a heavy tank, it's fun. If you care about the nuance of playstyle, the simple one of poke, dump, and hide to reload is pretty bland

[slow compass]

Guy

[tough trout]

There is still a triple shot gun, remember. With its great accuracy and dpm…

[fierce gorge]

🥚

[rocky sentinel]

bro like the other guy said it does slightly less damage then a 183 in 1.71 seconds . With radical calibration. Both tanks should be like the 752 with their intro clips with the double shot. Even though the triple shot does the same and has better DPM and accuracy. The 900 in 1.71 seconds can’t be beat

[fathom glacier]

T77 worst tank? Lmao. It’s the best heavy tank of t8. Better clip with 380 alpha dmg and good penetration. Accuracy is ok. If u say it’s worst tank then maybe your equipments are not great opinions

[scenic hazel]

T77’s accuracy is pretty tragic if u snap

[cinder shard]

But other than that...

[tough trout]

Effectiveness and being enjoyable are different… I, for one do not enjoy vehicles with inaccurate guns. Even if they are powerful, like Smasher, or t77. Always get frustrated when missing shots, that look like they should, without a doubt, hit the target.

[scenic hazel]

yea i sold my t77 already, couldnt withstand the accuracy

[mossy basalt]

I suggest sincerely to add more gun depression to the Helsing as it makes the tank have to literally climb over a hill or inclined surface to shoot something on the other side completely exposing the entire tank and the reverse speed makes it impossible to reverse back to cover without loosing half of your hp.

[drowsy plaza]

I suggest that one doesn’t buff tanks that are generally over performing…

[scenic geyser]

T62a def needs that 5.6 reload buff again

[quasi cloak]

Did Panther 2 get buffed or nerfed with the model change?

[vital wagon]

It changed nothing, before pbr you have no armour, now you have a beautiful tank with no armour.

[quasi cloak]

Liar! The spaced side armour on the tank disapeared! And I think the armour got removed behind the gun mantlet directly behind the canon. But I am not sure. Tracks also got wider and have a different shape!

[clear siren]

Guys, which tank do I recover with 15k Gold, chieftain mk 6 or the carro 45t or the obj 777 2 or the kpz 50t

[prisma jetty]

The side skirts weren’t actually part of the armor, they were purely visual. And the armor behind the mantlet is the same

[vital wagon]

I would choose either the chieftain or carro 45t

[twin egret]

inb4 they make a Premium version of the Panther II called Sd.Kfz. 172 where it's just the Panther II's previous non-pbr model, but with pbr

[twin egret]

if they're gonna milk tank ideas, they better milk it good
(Sd.Kfz. 172 is basically like another name/Bar Code for the Panther II, in a nutshell if that's your confusion)

[arctic lake]

Please restore T2 Light to the old 72 km/h or atleast 68 with a average speed of 40-50 plaz! i wanna be fast being a lower tier tank (LIKE THE OLD DAYS)

[prisma jetty]

171*

[placid herald]

It's still better than Soviet Heavies

[ancient rampart]

T77 is fairly accurate for a tier 8 heavy
Not amazing but definitely decent lol

[twin egret]

Yeah, mb

[clever valley]

Do not spam that

[fickle shoal]

one message really isn't spam, it's just large text

[frigid sapphire]

Billboard

[arctic lake]

wrd bro thinks I did it 10 times

[lost crane]

Pbr changed almost nothing. The armour is still strong against t7 and low pen t8, and with a troll turret armour against prammo.
Sides skirts were visual, but as the track are now in a different shape, they cover more of the side armour, which improves slightly HE resistance.
So side armour is slightly buff, and frontal and rear armour remain unchanged

[chilly prism]

pls add a way to buy the skin for old operation pass tanks like this

[bronze parcel]

This is stupid, it defeats the purpose of rare tanks.

[cinder shard]

There are offers for BP tanks after you buy a Battlepass. The current one is the Ferrum (+Striker camo) for example
(Also wrong channel, this is only for balance suggestions and discussion)

[chilly prism]

depends on your playstyle or which ever you like most but fir me it’d be 50t

[rocky sentinel]

why are you driving over the ridge in a tank that doesn’t really have armor and is a TD

[deft echo]

I think wg should decrease prices on some of the tier X legendary camouflages and attachments, example for the T-22 Medium, or the Jg. E100, their camouflages costs 2560 gold which is fair, but their attachments costs over 4000!? Like it only changes a small part of the tanks! And the Sidewinder camouflage too on the Sheridan, I played on it for a few matches and not even once I got the camouflage discount, now I’m stuck with the price of 5000, I mean clearly the Wavebreaker camouflage is better at any aspect but 5000 gold for a headlight, the M2’s shield and the laser at the top of the gun which is pointless now since the atgm rounds has been removed for it being overpowered, I don’t want the atgm rounds but I want older legendary camouflages to be cheaper, that’s what the players want right? Well, that’s just a few of the list actually.

[upbeat sphinx]

Cope with it

[frigid sapphire]

Truest answer of all time

[scenic hazel]

yea 4k for an attachment is crazy overprice

[rare plover]

the hell u mean

[remote sluice]

BZ-75 is fine cuh 💀🙏 maybe a hesh pen buff by 10-20mm and thats enuf

[ionic anchor]

Is xm66f good? I got it from the free barrel should i sell it and gamble, i dont know how to play it

[twin egret]

it is good

[primal mortar]

„Should I sell it“💀 u cant be serious

[scenic hazel]

Wg always gives op tanks to players who dont even know how to use them

[rare plover]

and then a good player gets forking rare boosters

[next zodiac]

I got 10x200 free xp 😂. I mean thats even worse than boosters.
And x3 XP boosters. Which are completely useless.

[rare plover]

fr, i mean imagine selling some tanks and grinding to get that
things that make me stop playing fr

[next zodiac]

Average draw experience: Selling collectors. Drawing. Getting 20k credits.

[unique scaffold]

What does that have to do with tank balance

[wispy hinge]

Who can help when I go into battle, fps from 120 sits down to 72 and no higher, no lower, what should I do? "The computer is powerful"

[vernal bridge]

Lower your graphics? See if something else is running in background?

[south helm]

Either the game is capped to 72fps, you screen is set to 72hz in-game or your pc isn’t as powerful as you thought

[twin egret]

try different versions of the game if that helps, either the Windows version, Steam version, or Wargaming Client version

[dapper zenith]

does pc have the "battle rendering resolution" choices like mobile does?

[deft echo]

„Cope with it” no way you’re fine with it unless you do microtransactions in-game, you can’t be serious 💀

[mint ibex]

Doesn’t matter whether we like it or not. WG doesn’t watch this channel, the suggestions here don’t influence their decisions, so cope

[broken oak]

The senlac needs a power to weight ratio buff and it shouldn't lose a ton of speed when turning.

Driving the senlac is like driving a hellcat. Even a Leopard 1 drives better

[next zodiac]

Of course it drives better xD. It is one of the most mobile tanks in the game.

[scenic hazel]

soon not anymore cuz 7 degrees is pretty bad

[nimble zodiac]

7 degrees of what?

[dapper zenith]

have you tried it with improved control over engine boost equipment, never played it just curious

[deft echo]

sheri he pen and damage needs a buff to be able to slap like the T49

[ember idol]

Sheridan has 90mm HE pen

More than enough for a 152mm gun

[cinder shard]

It really doesn't need a buff in terms of damage or pen, if you use cali you have more than enough pen and it has the same standard-shell damage as the T49 with way more dpm.
On top, you can't really pen it with HE because of the spaced armor. There are a few gaps, but 99% of people don't bother to aim and shoot ap/apcr instead.

[remote sluice]

also if the leaks are true sheridan’s getting 10 more alpha and an apcr pen buff 💀

[soft flax]

why is kv5 not reworked ? It brings up too much noobs above 4500 elo ranking

[muted rampart]

What? KV-5 is a balanced, i'd even say below average tank

[robust jolt]

are any tanks getting turned into collectors tanks next update?