tank-balance-discussion

[potent jay]

Except this one cost 25k ...

[atomic geode]

Well looks like you proved AMX M4 1954 is not over performing - good. And I agree, for AVG players, Heavies are definitely easier

[nimble zodiac]

There are 7 tier 8 AMX tanks, and all French tier 7s are AMX tanks. You’ll need to specify

@charred heron I would agree if you said this rebalance was generally a buff. Players don’t like it because it changes their comfortable playstyle, and don’t want to adapt the playstyle of a tank they paid for. If anyone believes it to be a nerf, then consider that WG’s balance rotation tilting away from AMX. I personally like these changes, though

[stuck acorn]

This is a buff, but it just makes the tank boring. Same thing with 113. This will be just yet another boring NPC tank now.

[mortal falcon]

You completely misread everything I just said. Reading comprehension is a valuable skill to have, I recommend working on it.

Otherwise, neither productive nor constructive discussions can occur.

[broken kernel]

Chieftain Mk. 6 needs some serious buffs if it wants to become a top tier heavium like T95E6

[atomic geode]

I definitely HATE these changes, weaker frontal armor, and alpha that my Yoh puts out x2 with more DPM at that. 1954 will be dull and play like a worse Super Conq - its UFP can already be penned by most tier 10 prem shells no problem, its sides are HUGE and weak. I love the 480 Alpha with Tungsten, 450 without is gonna suck This tank willl be SO BORING!!! @mortal falcon You should learn how banter works, otherwise you will forever be lost to whoosh in sarcasm.

[charred heron]

First of all make mk6 hatch immune to 15cm HE, I lost count how many times I blasted ~900 dmg on to mk6 turret

[unique scaffold]

WR wise im doing the same, I don't care about damage as it's not nearly as important as wins

[twilit crystal]

you can't say tooning lowers your average damage and then say tooning doesn't affect WR.

[nimble zodiac]

Then you’re relying too much on the hull without using your gun depression, only Ho-Ri can deal with this. Also just don’t expose your sides? Do you plan to actually fight with your side armor? And for alpha = fun, that is the baseline for the fiasco known as FV215b (183)

@stable cairn No?

[stable cairn]

Did you just compare the AMX to the 183?

[atomic geode]

Super Conq turret HE is bad too - both are awful to TAKE HE in. But yeah mk.6 needs a turret buff badly - Super Conq just needs HE resistance. @twilit crystal When I toon with my clan, my avg dmg goes down but WR goes up when with a decent player @nimble zodiac I am Relying on ALPHA so I do not NEED to be exposed as often - not having that and losing armor is gonnna suck - JUST armor nerf and I would be okay - if it loses 10-20mm of UFP alone, but losing the Tungsten and 30 alpha makes it boring and bad - those BIG hatches make anything close to even or low ground very dangerous

[broken kernel]

Actually, just make the cupola a tiny bit smaller, no need to make it stronger, buff the turret armor so that its impenetrable to heavy tank premium and buff some of the gun characteristics such as dispersion, aim time and penetration but nerf things like hull armor, HP, change the base shell type to APCR again and remove reactive armor

[stone drum]

It will be nothing like the tier 7 amx, lol
The tier 7 is godly.

[nimble zodiac]

It’s so sad that players shut themselves in and rely on alpha to play the game every once in a while, instead of being more capable of putting out damage and blocking more shots. Perhaps, being the catalyst for a push (as a heavy) to decide the match 😔
But no, we sit behind our hill and hope a slightly bigger number than the enemy will keep them at bay until an autoloader yoloes and dumps a clip, initiating play instead. Tragic.

[mortal falcon]

You know what would be really funny? If wargaming blocked off all of the common TD positions. I think that this would make the game actually playable.

[atomic geode]

ITs so sad when players want EVERY tank to have the same alpha and DPM, and not a bit of everything. Now it is 60tp or E-100 for a hard hitting heavy, nothing else has enough extra alpha to matter. and Tungsten FORCES 504 dmg as the minimum for M4 54. DPM is 54s downfall, alpha is the reason to play

[charred heron]

On the other hand HE splash on super conq is one of few effective ways to fight a hulldown conq straight ahead. Another being non-heat prammos (amx 54, hori etc.) sure hatch shot is possible but unlikely. Super conq needs its vulnerability from HE or it will be even more op at hulldown.

@broken kernel imo the large hatch is necessary if the actual turret armor is buffed, but wouldn’t hurt to make it a bit smaller instead buffing hatch armor

the gun handling is already very strong even in a heavium standard, being held back by relatively poor prammo pen.

But yes reactive armor is pointless, that’s for sure

[nimble zodiac]

Mm yes, not only shall frontline TDs be more preferable, but now make them the only option! I hope the 183 change will discourage so many players from leeching skill from the game, though.

But hey, I guess it’s our preferences for AMX 54 now. Some of us want to be a reclusive hulldown tank, and others want versatility and more farming capabilities

[mortal falcon]

I think the 183 should change places with the badger. Everyone with a 183 gets a badger, and everyone with a badger gets a 183 for free. Lock the thing behind lootboxes.

This is the closest we'd realistically get to it being removed

[stone drum]

Well when AMX's original selling point was 480 alpha, which was unique to it, it makes little sense to remove that. Also having slightly better dpm won't suddenly make AMX a farming machine, afterall WZ-111-5a exsists.

[broken kernel]

The game would be more playable if they removed the Fv215B 183 and blocked T10 for people with below 5K battles

[atomic geode]

Yeah we all want different things, but most ppl agree with my side. A lot of us are pissed we spent 25k gold. Tanks has BAD accuracy - where is the buff to that so it can compete with Concept 1B? It has terrible on movement dispersion - Concept 1B does not - it is just a worse SUper Conq/Concept 1B with only 8 degrees of depression and a giant silhouette. @stone drum Yep, that and tungsten really took it home for me

[charred heron]

True, for me I would prefer amx as trading shot tank, I don’t need another high dpm dmg farming tank. Farming dmg isn’t the only thing matters in this game.

I bought amx as a tank that trade shots well, not dpm farming, if it’s too strong sure nerf it, but don‘t change its identity completely

[nimble zodiac]

Y’all are so mad for your 25k gold and I’m so satisfied losing $190 😂

2745 DPM instead of 2571 (if calculated correctly) is pretty substantial imo @stone drum

[hushed fox]

It’s s brief shorthand for; we are talking about the Amx Mle. There are similar heavies at tier 7/8 by name even. I would assume anyone should know we are not talking an Amx 50-100

[teal crystal]

or or you can just do calibration battles secretly and pair up bad players with bad players via equal or lower ratings

[mortal falcon]

me when they sell concept for gold not even a year after xmas:

[atomic geode]

All this with only 450 alpha, terrible .362 accuracy, and NOW premium HEAT with ONLY 310mm of pen!🤣 all in a GIANT easy to farm package! Sides are just waiting for ur HESH and HE, call today to waste your money now!

[broken kernel]

Calibration doesnt affect random matches

[stone drum]

It's about taking away the uniqueness of the tank & making it another boring, generic heavy.

The dpm with be roughly 2660 assuming you dont run sandbags + big food + big fuel.

[twilit crystal]

they also said the pen is beign nerfed lmao, imagine 300 heat pen on a heavy

[nimble zodiac]

I want generic heavies

Stop playing heavies so much, I want all tanks to be able to play the game >:)

I’d assume WG will provide a new metric for the HEAT that won’t be worse than 310. If they do, then we got problems

@atomic geode Nobody is forcing you not to use refined gun, 0.326 accuracy

[mortal falcon]

I don't know if I can take these statements about "generic heavies" seriously after people also complained is-7 getting gigabuffed with tungsten and good apcr was a "nerf" that makes it a "generic heavy".

Not to mention the complaints about IS-4 changes making it... a no-longer generic heavy?

Sure I don't think the M4 54 will be particularly great post-changes, but its current state is also pretty obnoxious and it kinda deserves a nerf tbh

[charred heron]

And I want more unique tanks, we won’t reach a agreement here

[odd night]

True that the accuracy is terrible

[atomic geode]

Lmao it already has TERRIBLE gun handling, lets drop vert stabs for okay accuracy - GREAT idea and great trade Look at the reticle when u move. You want a BLAND bad tank to taake the place here, nobody likes your ideas other than you. Methinks he has a skill isue against AMX m4 54s?

[stone drum]

Yes the AMX needed changes, but it didn't get the ones it needed. It should have received thinner side + turret armour, lower hp, and higher weight.

[nimble zodiac]

Sorry that you don’t want to use your brain and play a hulldown trading tank

I really like AMX, and I’m excited to play it after the update. I want to see what plays I can make and take the risks I didn’t have a chance with beforehand.

The bad gun handling doesn’t even matter when you’re hulldown, you don’t need to move that much lol.

I love that a generic heavy now consists of any tank that practically outcompetes mediums. This meta, man 😂

[mortal falcon]

thinner side armor? so basically a non-change?

Higher weight? ok sure, mobility nerf, i can vibe with that.

Lower HP? Sure.

thinner turret armor? like frontally? goodbye any viability of the tank i guess

[charred heron]

That’s weird too.

It looks like they are trying to swap the features of IS4 and IS7 (especially in terms of mobility) but I don’t see the reason behind it

At this point WG isn’t even nerfing overperforming tanks or buffing the underperforming ones, they are just changing the features and identity of some tanks for no reason

[stone drum]

In return i would give it better handling and a PC-style gun.

And the armour would be worse on the gun mantlet fyi.

[atomic geode]

Sorry I dont need a second, WORSE, Concept 1b OR Super Conqueror @nimble zodiac EVEN COMPLAINS that Heavies arent MORE samey now

[jovial aurora]

the only change thats good is for the chinese light… the rest should be reverted as no one asked for them nor do we need these changes

this is even more proof the WG aren’t even good at their own game let alone they think this “rebalance” is a good idea lmaoo… instead of spending all this effort to this waste how about you actually do something good like a new Physics engine and ACTUALLY try to optimize it this time 😂 🤡

[nimble zodiac]

Fine. No more devil's advocate. Let's kill this chat right here and now, and let the one-sided boring complaints about AMX M4 mle. 54 continue. Almost as boring as an easy hulldown tank with alpha and decent mobility. Even I can manage to perform well in it.

I gotta get ready for work 👋

Calling a heavy generic before a literal rebalance of a whole tier, very interesting
AMX has much better turret armor than M-VI-Yoh, don't even try it. Also 54 is gonna have about 170 more DPM after this change.

[atomic geode]

Super Conqueror and Concept 1Bro - don't need another easy to play vanilla tank. And notice NO ONE defending your view. But hey whatever,, you want more bland crap you get it. With worse accuracy, almos the SAME DPM, and worse armor (after nerf ofc), why should anyone Play AMX M4 54 instead of M-VI-Yoh? Or the otehrs mentioned above

I run Refined gun on Super Conq cause it has amazing gun handling. That thing has "Bad accuracy" at 0.352, AMX M4 54 gets 0.362 -- and AMX gun handling is 0.2/0.2 without Vert Stabs, that is TERRIBLE worse than Minotauro

[nimble zodiac]

Don't matter if they can't pen me behind this ridge

[hushed fox]

It will be much more similar playstyle than before the balancing. Lower alpha, more heavium like playstyle; higher dpm with good gun dep. Tier 7/8 has much better gun handling lol!

[stone drum]

The thing is for all you mention hulldown and speak of others wanted a hulldown tank, nobody wants that. AMX having an impenetrable turret is incredibly stupid in my eyes.

@hushed fox AMX m4 mle. 45 features extremely high alpha paired with excellent gun handling + dispersion, and dpm. It's nothing like the tier X, however that's good because the tier 7 plays almost identical to the PC AMX m4 mle. 54 and i love it.

[nimble zodiac]

Taking AMX's accuracy over Minotauro's any day.

I want the bland playstyle of OP hulldown killed. WG is making moves to stop it. I'm sorry you don't want to adapt to that. Let's play the tank and see? I hope to perform worse so I know the tank is more balanced.

@stone drum Okay. But the alpha does support a more hulldown and passive playstyle. That's what made me think these users wanted hulldown. A higher alpha supports it.
I'm getting tired of these absolute overreactions to small alpha changes. 450 is still rather chunky. It will outtrade anything in its league except IS-7, Maus, VK 90, and Vz. 55 (as far as we know, before EU changes are announced), and trade even with a shot from M-VI-Yoh.

[stone drum]

I mean if It was up to me I would have given it 525 alpha, way less hp, and either .16/.16/.16 or .17/.17/.17 handling, and slighty better dispersion.

They would probably hate what I would do to it, it would be a "Bulletproof-glass cannon".

@nimble zodiac well Bulletproof-glass sounds better than lexan-glass.

[nimble zodiac]

😂
Maybe we need more oxymorons in tank balance

[unkempt quest]

wholeheartedly agree. people overreact way too much on the smallest changes. oh no i now deal 30 less damage on a high alpha tank, so now every 15 shells i fire i would have fired 16 shells worth of damage instead. how tragic.
you're quite literally getting a huge reload buff that will more than compensate for the alpha nerf.

the armor is becoming more fair, so there's actual weakspots you have to worry about instead of just sitting there, roll up to the ridge, shoot, and roll back without any risk of taking damage. and even if you do take damage you have an amazing hp pool, while even being able to run reactive armor so you're practically guaranteed to outtrade any heavy besides the E100.

it will be even faster, meaning it can take the necessary positions in a battle earlier and better deal with being circled or relocating.

this tank will still be competitively viable, but for a different role

[final warren]

Yeah he kinda shot himself in the foot with his ban situation. Really showed his true colors with that

[winter dagger]

Dude forgot about the fact it's prammo turns to heat (indirect pen Nerf) and overall pen nerfs, to turn it into more of a heavium than anything, and it's the size of a maus. In its current state its that fast hulldown style is7 that the is7 couldn't be, but the alpha Nerf gonna make it a joke, when a wz-121 can out trade it with tungsten Now and AMX got reactive instead of tungsten

[stone drum]

The 120ish extra dpm it's getting doesn't compensate for loosing the ability to lash out 530 slaps.

[atomic geode]

Worse rotate, and I WAS thinking with Vert Stabs - point is AMX 54 Accuracy is ASS and so is gun handling, go ahead and compare to the Super Conq or the Concept. Compare to ALL the other tier 10 Heavies, or I will

[unkempt quest]

we don't know how much the pen is being touched. could be a lot, could be only 5mm. i highly doubt it will be anything significant.

a hulldown tank with amazing turret armor doesn't need to have good pen over other heavies, a small nerf is enough. shell type changes to HEAT will not affect that much either. there will be specific scenarios where it's way worse compared to AP, but those are not everything

[atomic geode]

Everything with 400 to 460 alpha is better on move and actual accuracy - no red for on the nove and full accuracy, this is all with the same equipment. If AMX is not getting a gun handling buff it will be totally useless

[void siren]

I don’t respect the amx m4 mle 54 because of its 160mm mantlet combined with the 300mm turret armor. Just no. Make it go away

Silly turret armor but the hull armor is a little sad

Also stop trying to give a 130mm 530 alpha. Please.

Oh and for some reason WG probably wants it to brawl now

The armor layout makes that impossible but 🤷‍♂️

[stone drum]

310 heat is indisputably inferior to 310 AP, and by quite a large margin. It will often make the difference between whether or not you are penetrating your shot.

@void siren thats what it's supposed to & should have lol.

[atomic geode]

Learn to reposition bud.... So much side real estate so easy to pen track wheel. Upper frontal plate is strong but there are FAR stronger, heavy Prem shells CAN PEN IT! - learn to aim at lower plate and hatches frontally, better yet dip back and go around to their side and rear - happens ALL the time. We want 480 alpha bro, not 450 or 530 - 480 and Tungsten DOES give it 530 alpha for 2 shots and then a long cooldown. I can excuse the bad gun handing for good alpha. The armor layout IS POSSIBLE! Pen the hatches on the turret or use prem on Uppere plate FFS it is not hard! That and learn to position It is losing Tungsten, it is losing Premium AP and getting HEAT with 300 pen FFS and only 450 alpha better to play IS7 or a TON of OTHER tanks, has no originality after nerf.

[void siren]

Oh tungsten

That’s fine

Shouldn’t have been changed

[clear shuttle]

learn to snipe the m4 mle 54s hatches

[hushed fox]

Amx m4 mle 45 has 310 alpha. You consider that “ extremely high alpha”, in comparison how would you describe the IS-2 120 mm 400 alpha gun?

[void siren]

Bruh it’s high alpha based on the caliber - 400 for a 120mm, no matter the tier, is fine.

@atomic geode the m4 49 oh my god

Oh wait…

[atomic geode]

U might be a little confused.. He said M4 45 has 310 alpha (100mm gun) where an IS series at the same tier has 400 - this is tier 7. the M4 45 is kinda irrelevant to the conversation.., lol yeah teh M4 naming is hard to keep up with sometimes. There are 4 French M4s, and like 3+ American M4s - dunno why guy even brought that up. But armor wise yeah the tier 8 M4 49 is a mirror of the tier 10 in armor and weaknesses, but the alpha is definitely different. But that is simply bacause M4 54 has a 130mm gun, the OTHER French M4s have 100mm - for instance, Minotauro is an Italian with a 130mm gun, but IT gets 490 Alpha - 10 more than the 1954 has right now

[nimble zodiac]

We don't know what pen the HEAT will have, so let's not make vast assumptions
@void siren Did it get datamined or something? I wouldn't think they'd have it in files yet. So where is this 300 from?
Like, it doesn’t specify any numbers, so again, it’s an assumption

[void siren]

(300mm)

Reasonable guess - armor pen is decreased

[atomic geode]

"HEAT is set as the premium shell type. Frontal armor thickness, armor penetration, and avg. shot damage are decreased (by 30/20/20 points for the latter)."

[stone drum]

Considering it sports .326 dispersion (better than most tier 8 310 alpha guns) vs IS with .4+, So yes I consider 310 alpha to be very high in tier 7.

@atomic geode I mentioned it because said tank has a playstyle extremely similar to the classic PC amx m4 mle. 54.

[void siren]

The amx m4 45 lacks reliable armor - are you referring to the 49 by any chance

[atomic geode]

If ALL it got was an upper front plate armor nerf, I would not complain at all - unless they dropped it to something stupid like 150mm or less. @hushed fox - No I would NOT have bought it if I knew this ws coming

[hushed fox]

Well, it will be interesting how the Amx M4 mle 54 “ balancing will shake out. Would as many people buy it after knowing of the rebalancing? Will it still be used in comp, and how effective it will be in pubs/ranked?

[stone drum]

No, I am referring to the AMX m4 mle. 45
@void siren it's just the feel of the gun + mobility that is so familiar.

@atomic geode I hope they only nerf the turret tbh, if they nerf the hull that would be stupid.

[void siren]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[sharp brook]

is there a tank balance chart?

[unkempt quest]

what do you mean by that

[sharp brook]

like say I want to check my tanks side armor Stats and the like

[void siren]

Blitzhangar / wotinspector

[hearty steeple]

Blitzhangar isn't being updated so wotinspector should be the go to

[void siren]

Blitzhangar gives easier to read stats for tanks that haven’t been changed

Soon it’ll be outdated forever

[nimble zodiac]

Blitzstars tank compare is good, you can compare tank-by-tank

[void siren]

Traverse is a lie

[dry rivet]

I have to say, I’m very disappointed with the balance changes. 300-310 premium HEAT pen? You’re joking right, WG? I was planning to save up some money to get myself an AMX mle 54 in the future. Looks like you lost one more insignificant customer who was willing to pay.
And I don’t like what you’ve done to my 5A. I got it because its 130mm can pack a punch in a single shot. 500 per shot is where the fun comes from.
Sometimes, I wonder if you understand your own mobile game. SMH Wargaming, you do well in losing the trust of your customers.

Legally, you are able to change the characteristics of the tanks created to be sold, but, it doesn’t mean that you should.

[atomic geode]

Unfortunately sounds like both, and the gun. if ALL it was - was SOME kinda armor nerf I would not be pissed nearly as much - and not at all if it was only marginal

[willow hawk]

Spending money on this game is a mistake. All that money could have been more wisely spent on food, clothing, etc.

Seriously though, it’s a lucrative tactic. Before you buy a tank, you see the parameters. Then you say, “Ooh, look, this tank has these stats, it fits my playstyle/I will love this tank.” Then later on, the features of the tank, aka one of many good reasons to buy the tank originally, are all changed. Now you regret spending $50…$500…on a tank you can no longer have fun with.

This “read the fine print, you agreed to this” is a load of BS. The balance changes to a tank should be intended to keep the tank enjoyable, not otherwise. But here’s the issue: different players have different opinions of what is “enjoyable.”

Simplest solution? You buy as is. It doesn’t change. Remove the fine print saying the parameters of this tank are subject to change.

[sharp brook]

thank you and @void siren

[willow hawk]

Hey…I wanna get a Carro next time it comes around…wait a minute…WG devs can alter stats in any update…maybe not.

[atomic geode]

I buy gold in Bulk, I actually have not spent much on this game yet - and I am sitting on 70k gold - not buying anything short of VK 90 - and not buyig more gold after that. I NEVER paid for a loot box, only ever got the ones with the bundle - and T95e6 since it will just be amazing - getting Combat Stabilization? Or is that VK 90, either way both tanks will probably be played more than the nerfed AMX will

[willow hawk]

Yeah, but will the E6 stay that way? You have no way to know. It’s best if you get the tanks for free somehow, by saving up little by little thru ads, events etc. I made the mistake of spending hundreds on this game. It’s not worth it.
If you play for free, you gain something good, cool! They nerf it? Cool! You haven’t lost any money.

[atomic geode]

OMFG! I just realized VK 90 will have better armor, combat stabilization AND Higher Alpha than AMX, VK has a 128, AMX has 130mm - the VK 90 is already almost broken strong - it WILL be broken next patch - that is why the free lootboxes without keys!!! F U WG! @willow hawk Sure enough, but I am only gonna use gold I already have unless they back down on AMX - NTM VK already has TD levels of AP pen

[stone drum]

If you buy VK 90, prepare for disappointment, it's likely the single most over-hyped tank in blitz.

@willow hawk
That's why I mostly play physical wargames, lol.

[dry rivet]

Watch Wargaming nerf it a few months later. Can’t trust Wargaming anymore.

[willow hawk]

Yeah man. Be careful what u spend on. It’s your money though. So just do what you want.

[twin egret]

I had the vk 90 twice already, second time was from last years snow globe lol

anyhow, I think the changes on the vk will either be rediculous or not

[atomic geode]

I have played against good VK 90 players and it is HELL! But there are a MAJORITY of VK 90 players that know nothing of how to side scrape or angle - it is like Tiger P at tier 7 - so many ppl SUCK in that tank, but the ones who know how to use it - they rack up 4k+ games like nothing else - just as there are so MANY bad 907 Players - especially right now. And I am NOT spending more money- I alredy have gold. VK 90 needs to stay nback OR go around corners in reverse - it is best in cities. When I get it - it will be outright for gold and nothing else. Anyone else notice this Luxury lounge is TERRIBLE?? Last one at least had Endless Space Camo (on my TVP) All these lucky mfers like @willow hawk and others.

[willow hawk]

Same lmao! I got VK 90 for free 2x
One the year after it was promoted (charms), and again next winter.

[twin egret]

I had it for testing

[atomic geode]

I should still be around for winter, and I have that "Icy Surprise" so I might not buy ANY tanks till Auction and globes @acoustic estuary Good money has it, that is a snow globe in the waiting

[acoustic estuary]

What does icy surprise has something to do in that.

Hmmm interesting

[willow hawk]

My luck ran out after the Vk90. Just so u know. Lmao

[twin egret]

same. I got a Lacen C in the next snow globe event 💀

[dry rivet]

I just scrolled through this channel. It doesn’t look like many people agree with the balance changed either. So I guess I’m not insane for thinking the way I do.

[hallow harbor]

I have the tank for a few weeks now, it was pretty good. It's so bad that it's getting nerfed that much. The premium AP shouldn't be replaced because it's pretty useful. And the armor penetration decrease is also seriously insulting

[fallow nimbus]

these changes are crazy
whoever thought that buffing the 50b's gun and "reducing the armor" was a good idea needs to be fired but then again i just realized that it doesn't matter as long as the game keeps bringing in moneyz

[acoustic estuary]

50b accuracy is horrible moslty from my pov.

[atomic geode]

50b Finna be the new TVP if TVP is nerfed too hard - I hope it doesnt go worse than 2 sec interclip with quicker clip reload to compensate and have same DPM. ppl act like it is easy to play - its not - but if u do it well, it can really kick ass

[dry rivet]

Wargaming says “we want do X to this tank and Y to this other one. And Z is nerfed here so it will be less comfortable playing this way or the other.” Wargaming, you’re forgetting,
It’s not what you want. It’s what the community wants. If you can’t find a way to compromise just don’t change anything.

[fallow nimbus]

while wargaming should listen in some situations if they listened to the majority of the crackheads whining for changes the game would definitely be worse

[stone drum]

The 50b change where very good and show that my trust in WG (in terms of balancing 50b) was not misplaced.

[acoustic estuary]

That’s what they are doing, they are changing tanks roles, like E5 becoming a hulldown tank, that’s a balance in wg heads. And i still don’t know how to feel about most of the changes.

[atomic geode]

Lmao right? STB-1 is getting PREMIUM AP! No Cally needed. So STB-1 is already the top performing tank for skilled players, is gonna get buffed hard - it gain the AP that AMX is losing FFS - it makes ZERO SENSE! Also STB-1 Premium gaining dmg really makes no sense

[willow hawk]

Better yet, don’t even have a balance department. Investing in so much so that a bunch of self-righteous dudes think that tank-identity-purpose reassignment is attractive, and positively diversifying gameplay.

[atomic geode]

They're really only meatgrinding the AMX M4 1954 - 50B is gaining DPM - AMX M4 1954 SHOULD be a tech tree tank, but they sold it with 480 alpha and Tungsten with strong front weak sides and rear, now it is losing most of those strengths, only to be a bigger and worse Mk.6 @twilit crystal I thought it was losing interclip - getting faster in clip reload that is

[twilit crystal]

50bs dpm buff is neglible, its a second. The real buff is the aim time buff, but yeah other than foch and amx 54 the other 3 frenchies did pretty well, 50b gets an overall buff to its atrocious gun handling, amx 30b gets a dpm buff and batchat gets a clip potential buff at barely any penetration drop and only 100 dpm lost along with the best view range every seen in blitz, which is more crazy because plenty of tds and a few heavies are dropping to 240 meters view range. The batchat is gonna be heavily abusable with view range mechanics. Make sure to run a camo net, @atomic geode no its just the full mag reload thats being buffed. Its a nice QoL buff but nothing major 95% of the time it shouldn't make a difference

[willow hawk]

I know that, but FochGuy isn’t concerned much about the mle 54. He’s just happy the 50B is getting pampered up a lil.
I own the mle 54, so yeah, I’m livid about the changes.

[arctic depot]

121b should not be loosing its Reactive Armour since that is the main reason why it is used in tournaments. If its taken away a 140 or 907 will just be straight up better. Sorry but I strongly disagree with this change.

[atomic geode]

But it has that statement that says "; aiming time and inter-clip (full magazine) reload time will become 0.5 s and 0.98 s shorter, respectively" NEVERMIND! It means Aimtime is 0.5 sec quicker I got it

[gleaming apex]

jedi0804#0 has been warned.

[atomic geode]

I was livid the second I heard the news on the 1954, I was STARTING to really love the tank, especially with Tungsten - 504-600 dmg rolls are sweet. Its accuracy is trash, but its got armor frontally and nowhere else, its side profile is gigantic and unlike an IS7 it will never bounce shells broadside on - it will eat HE and HESH - perfectly balanced the way it was

[drowsy plaza]

You can ignore about half the complaints as they have been written by folks who have a poor understanding of the game. But but quite frankly most of the back balance changes seem ridiculous. The idea the some tanks should be strong than others is quite frankly absurd. Why play the weaker ones? From any logical standpoint for the long term health of the game tanks should be balanced, with pros offset by cons. That doesn’t mean cookie cutter tanks.

[acoustic estuary]

Depends, some weaker ones like 183 is fun. Fun is a motive to play bad tanks’

[stone drum]

I like mle. 54, but I understand why it was nerfed. Also unlike the 50b AMX m4 mle. 54 is not real and as such has basically no connection to my life.

There's also only so much I can really say about it.

[drowsy plaza]

The 183 is a blight. The alpha damage is insane. It won’t ever be balanced for Blitz due to that.

[atomic geode]

I know WOT better than most, Played WOT PC since 2011 and kept going til around 2019, stareted Blitz in 2014, started again in 2017 still bad tablet - then I started again in December 2022 cause WOT PC and World of Warships are basically dead to me. All the mechanics in WOT PC almost entirely carry over, so does the knowledge - Armor and guns are different tho - and ofc no arty OR Wheelie tanks that break the laws of physics - also wheels that eat 150mm shells even tho they are only 10mm thick... Warships WAS my main til hybrid abominations came, then submarines - I then played a few games of Blitz on my phone - got the VK 45.03 for free - started Wrecking favcce and got hooked - now I play from PC on Steam - use my phone for free gold and ad crates

[dry rivet]

So tank balancing is out the window? There’s a hierarchy now? What are they thinking?

[acoustic estuary]

What are you offering then, so far the balances for me have been good.

[atomic geode]

A LOT of the balance changes are bad - but for me one in particular is way over the edge. AMX m4 54. IS4 is getting killed too Also why TF is STB-1 getting 300mm pen AP shells??? WZ-113 is getting screwed up, WZ-111 5A somehow is getting worse

[dry rivet]

Balance isn’t good when it doesn’t exist. If you want to see what I have to offer, scroll up, and you’ll see my opinion. Otherwise stop pestering me if you don’t have anything substantial.

[stone drum]

That's a whole lot of nothing.

[harsh ravine]

It seems the balancing department wants to keep the Foch under the grave, with all these dumb changes they made to it.

Them nerfing the single shot gun insinuates that they want us to use the garbage autoloader. What a joke.

Also, APCR as base for the autoloader?? Whats the point of the “slight buff” then?

[atomic geode]

Another bad decision, Foch was never great to begin with - certainly not TOO strong @acoustic estuary Metas can change - right now it is autoloaders, but changing a tank that was in GOOD shape to be mediocre/bad (depending on armor nerf) is stupid - especially when it is a SOLD tank - for gold/money. Who is gonna buy AMX M4 1954 knowing the changes?

[acoustic estuary]

Everything don’t last forever lads. Meta changes.

[dry rivet]

Exactly. No changes is better than a lot of bad ones with a few good ones. Go hug your 50B. While it lasts. Don’t come back griping when they nerf all the France tech trees

[acoustic estuary]

??
So staying for the same meta till the end is a smart idea? Interesting.

@atomic geode happens to the best of us.

[atomic geode]

Oh, sorry, thought u were responding to me

[dry rivet]

I don’t know much about meta, but I’m sure a lot of these balance changes are ridiculous. Heavies becoming faster? Losing armor? Mediums still aren’t relevant. TDs are getting beefed (except the grille). Lights like the 132-1 and Vickers getting nerfed dpm? How is this a positive change in meta?

[acoustic estuary]

Some tanks got better such as Maus ( which was trash ) , 263 ( which was trash ). Leo was made even better. Main focus for me. Other tanks got a changed in their role like E5. Some get better at something but lose something. Some get terrible. That’s How balance work somehow in this game. We will get a bit different gameplay then from 10.2 that’s the gola of 10.3. Change completely tier 10.

[stone drum]

Calm down.
I've been seeing French tanks rise and fall for almost ten years now, it's nothing new.

[willow hawk]

I actually haven’t thought about this. Every tank should be competitive in its own way. There’s no logical reasoning why some tanks have to be outright better than another.

And somehow I failed to see this. This is dead on 100% how I see it. We need mediums like Patton to be able to rival other tanks. They already handicapped it with no gun depression in the rear, nerfed side gun depression, ruined the turret profile when introducing PBR, and now they want to nerf alpha and penetration. Seriously, how good will the turret buff be? And .29 seconds faster of a reload isn’t worth the pen and alpha nerf.
Yes Synx, I’m still ranting about this. Bear with me.

[teal crystal]

there's still hope with Progetto and TVP next week

[unique scaffold]

The bat chat will be the best spotter after 10.3

[granite pebble]

God I hope they make the progetto have better gun handling

[twilit crystal]

tvp nerf is confirmed lol, dont know about progetto

[granite pebble]

Have they stated what they're gonna be changing on it?

[unique scaffold]

🇨🇳 WZ-111 5A: aiming time and reload time are getting 0.9 and 0.96 seconds shorter, respectively; terrain crossing capacity, engine power, and hull traverse speed will be improved. Frontal hull and turret armor becomes thinner; avg. damage per shot gets 20/10/20 points lower; gun dispersion is increased.

111 5A frontal armor nerfed... To 125 or 120 or maybe less? I don't mind the DMG and the bloom(could be 0.344) just the frontal armor i am curious..

[twilit crystal]

alpha nerf at the very least

[ancient rampart]

They only mentioned alpha

[unique scaffold]

Could be 280 or 260 dmg

[ember mountain]

After 10.3, AMX 30B will have 3.6k DPM with gun rammer right?

[quartz snow]

The frontal armour was already trash. Glad its getting better dpm and a little more mobile.

[unique scaffold]

But the dispersion is worsens.. Hope it was 0.344

[granite pebble]

Uhhh... I don't think so, lemme redo my calculation of it... Keep in mind the 30B only reaches 3.1k with food and rammer currently

With food and rammer it should be sitting at around 3486

Though, if I add the rammer and food bonus directly to the new reload speed instead of the rounds per minute it sits at 3535.

[quartz snow]

But it loses its turret armour and so it diminishes what little relevance AMX 30 B had imo

@ember mountain yeah but now its just another generic MT. Not saying it wasnt like that before.

[ember mountain]

Oh.

Not bad but man, looks like every other MT is still better in DPM, oh well atleast it gets better aim time I hope so I can use it for peekaboo.

@quartz snow it's mantlet is the only good turret armor ngl

[granite pebble]

I think i've actually been calculating this wrong, it should be 3535 because they take the time off of the reload speed directly rather than rounds per minute, so yes the 30B should be at 3.5k.

Add on the fact that the gun gets even more accurate, then you basically just have a french Leopard with 10 degrees of gun depression and a gun mantlet that is hopefully still troll.

Overall, tank should still be pretty good in the 10.3 meta

[slender latch]

Regarding the 50b will it get 0.5s less on the reload of the magazine or interclip? I forgot what the difference was with inter and intra clip

[granite pebble]

It's getting .5 second better aim time, and then .98 off the clip reload time

[slender latch]

Dang I thought it would be given like a 2.5s intraclip

[granite pebble]

I mean it already has 2.73

[ember mountain]

im glad my 30B is a somewhat viable tank for Meta now, i bought it originally because it looks good

@granite pebble i hope so too lol.

[granite pebble]

I just hope that the mantlet stays viable for bouncing at least heavies, lights, and other meds

[main tulip]

How about no

[frigid torrent]

Where can I see all the updates

[ember mountain]

#coming-soon

[stable egret]

I think WG is moving in a general direction of making the gameplay to faster side. Armor is getting nerfed(so that camping ia reduced somewhat), dpm buffs, mobility buffs. Imo this makes game more dynamic and skill based. Though still some changes do look odd, lets see what the final version looks like🤞

[summer cliff]

But wz 113 and Bat chat are getting nerf right?

[graceful elk]

The game is already fast paced, it does not need to get faster

[granite pebble]

Batchat is literally getting buffed

[summer cliff]

Wz 113 ?

[clear shuttle]

buff imo, but it loses 200 dpm + dispersion so you decide

[pure tusk]

Yeah we get 2 unique playstyles in one tank

Kinda like the Yoh

[granite pebble]

Ummm, quite honestly a nerf, it's getting worse in situations that around brawling.

We'd have to see numbers to see what the nerfs are like compared to the buffs

[fervent briar]

The wz 113 g ft is being armor buffed . WHY?? It was already broken armor

[verbal igloo]

🇨🇳 WZ-113: gun stabilization and dispersion become worse;(bad) avg. shot damage decreases by 20/10/10 points.(bad) The improved parameters include armor penetration for APCR and HEAT shells(good), aiming time (0.8 s shorter)(good), turret traverse speed(good), turret armor(good), terrain crossing capacity(good), and power-to-weight ratio(good). I am sorry but these just sound like buffs to me

[lime swallow]

I wonder if they will nerf the carro 45t in 10.3 🤔

[harsh ravine]

It seems they’re trying to make the WZ 113 in the same vein as the Obj 260 next update.

[mental thistle]

U lose alot of dpm

[deep venture]

I don’t believe it is, a lot of td’s can easily pen it with premium ammo. The upper plate armor should be nearly impenetrable imo, it’s like the only good thinf about the tank

[fervent briar]

It ia gonna be broken , imagine if it buffed its Alpha, on wz 113G FT

[latent ermine]

Really unfortunate changes for the amx mle 54... If you are replacing its pramo to heat, buff it instead of leaving in the way it is. Now the mle gonna be one of the worst heat pen heavy at t10. Why nerfing its frontal armor, its a French heavy that supposed to have armor. On pc its have 220mm of frontal armor, and on blitz its have 200, and now its gonna be weeker.. cool. Instead of nerfing the alpha, just remove tungsten, or keep tungsten and nerf the alpha. Reactive armor is useless for a tank that is meant to hull down. Now the mle 54 gonna be a failed yoloing tank with speed, reactive with trash pramo pen against the other heavy. Its a premium tank that people spend money on it for its good playstyle, really comfortable to play, think about them.

[zealous root]

The amx mle 54 nerf seems too much
I mean the armor at the front was never the thickest and now it’s getting nerfed.
Besides that the sides can be easily penetrated.
On top the gun gets nerfed from 480 alpha to 450 alpha and removed thungsten shells so basically it had 550 alpha now it has 450 alpha and less penetration. So this means you will even have to use more premium shells with around 400 damage for 10s of reload.
This sucks and mobility won’t make up for that since it had already better mobility before and the tank didn’t play better then.

[gleaming apex]

nguyentanloc0355#0 has been warned.

lestat2021t95cheiftainspammer#0 has been warned.

[drowsy plaza]

But basically a lot of medium nerfs. It’s actually mostly heavy buffs, which generally doesn’t cater to skilled players. The pen nerf’s also are going to force most meds to run CS and spam gold. Outside the STB which will just spam gold without CS.

[twin egret]

That stb-1 change is just so odd

[rain reef]

👀

[fossil marten]

Anyone who buys that today or over the next week while we wait for the Euro line nerfs/buffs needs their head read!

[lime swallow]

welp i bought it, was expectnig a nerf anyways

[slate plume]

What's the E6 rebalance?

[fossil marten]

Well you won’t be disappointed then if they nerf it, and you’ll be quids in if they buff it 😅

[remote sluice]

yep dont be like me lol

i hoped for a 215b buff just to be extremely disappointed. what was wg thinking nerfing the already nonexistent armor of that poor thing?

i hoped for a foch 155 revamp and alpha buff, but they only slightly buff some aspects, which still makes the foch a worse version of three other tanks

i am greatly disappointed by those changes if i were to be honest

now tune in next week for kran turret armor nerf (jk)

[lime swallow]

honestly i kinda hope it gets nerfed, the clip potential is a bit too good for a medium, and the 3rd and 2nd shells reload way too quick, maybe they should nerf it to 8.5 seconds and 6.5 seconds each

[celest lantern]

The tanks pretty balanced tho

[humble flint]

Kind of late for this but stb gonna have 3,5k rounded dpm (rammer) base shell and about 3960ish dpm (rammer) premium shell cant wait to see how thats gonna turn out

Cant wait to spam full prammo stb in ratings

[lime swallow]

maybe nerf the shell 2 and 3 reload a bit, and give it a mobility buff which it desperately needs

[austere citrus]

buff the gun depression of obj 263 from 4 degrees to 6-7

[humble depot]

That would be physically impossible for the tank.

[elder lodge]

Impossible yes, gun would be inside of the hull

[slender latch]

E6 be having a redemption arc of being up there with the top 10 strong tier 10s while others around it get nerfed

[austere citrus]

then at least make the gun a lazer, the dispersion and aiming time on the tank rn is absolute terrible

[humble depot]

It's getting various buffs in 10.3. Chill out.

[errant anchor]

It already is one of the better t10s as it is currently.

Wg just did a funny moment and buffed it again cause why not

[stable cairn]

Standard shell will have 330 alpha and premium 320 so I have no idea how you calculated 3.9k dpm for the premium shell

@humble flint the premium shell alpha is currently 300, not 350, 300 + 20 = 320 🤯

[humble flint]

Base and HE reduced by 20. Premium AP increased by 20 which is weird but its real. Premium alpha is gonna be 370 so it roughly makes 3,9k-4k dpm

Shi Im sorry @stable cairn

[stable cairn]

Still only 3% less dpm on the premium so you can still spam gold in ratings😇

[silk root]

it seems like most of the buffs i've seen have been to mobility in one way or another, and most of the nerfs have been to accuracy, pen, and armor. it'll encourage less camping and a more active playstyle, so interesting to see how it all turns out

[odd night]

maus and 263 were absolutely needing huge buffs im happy they got better at least

[winter dagger]

???? Prem ammo on stb is currently 300 dmg. They buff by 20 cause it's prem AP instead of heat, to make it similar to the hori and type 71 ammo types and dmg. No idea how you got 370 from that, but at best with rammer you got 3.3-3.5k dpm

[hearty tinsel]

++++
The thing that triggers me the most is the fact they've nerfed the M4. Just why????
It's fairly balanced as tank and every newbe can deal with it. I don't also get why add reactive armour that's feels useless in random games, then in cw the tank will probably desappear, and that was the only place where reactive has slightly more sense to use, although it's still pretty useless.

[clear shuttle]

which for losing some traverse, is a big upside to the stb as its dpm was one of the main things “holding it back” from other mediums

[humble flint]

For whatever reason my brain thought prammo deals the same damage as base ammo

[unique scaffold]

I feel bad for people that got the amx m4 just to be nerfed next update

[humble flint]

Which would you get if they both were in store chief mk6 or vk90? (After 10.3 changes)

[unique scaffold]

bruhhhhhh I started grinding grille just for it to be nerfed AGAIN?

[hollow thistle]

Hi.
So i was wondering, is Leopard 1 obsolete now?

Like it has nothing special anymore, it isn't even considered fast anymore.

What do you think?

[humble flint]

Wdym it boutta have 4k dpm and they havent touched its mobility so still the fastest tier X medium too
@slender latch it isnt that big of a deal

[slender latch]

Gun dep will be nerfed by 1 deg so its just 8 now

[hollow thistle]

It's faster on paper, but in reality not much faster than most mts

[quartz snow]

No american tanks killed

[spice otter]

dam , WG just let my 25k gold dissapear in useless , nerf fire power , armour , ... , never pay any cent again , farewell m 4 54

[winter dagger]

It'll be most used in ratings, and maybe top one med if tvp is nerfed to shat (poor spelling Mb)

[clear shuttle]

yep

[spice otter]

yup , nerf the collect is the most pain , rip 25k gold for air and some random stuff , now its just an 7k5 gold for gacha

[zenith steppe]

I’m not sure how you’re playing the leopard 1 but I can assure you the tank is anything but obsolete.

Even currently, with its insane DPM and laser accurate, it’s one of the deadliest mediums. The gun has the same dispersion as the grille I think (correct me if I’m wrong) which really allow leo players to fight even at long range.

IMO I don’t think it needed nearly 4k dpm but hey, it’s a welcome one

Add to that it’s good mobility allows it to flank and destroy camping tds.

[clear shuttle]

you have to be pretty skilled to be able to use the leo 1 to its “truest potential”

[normal fulcrum]

Grille 15 is nerfed

[austere citrus]

stb 1 is leo but with armor and more gun depression

[plain dew]

But none of the speed and DPM

[final warren]

Don't forget the WZ 132-1

[winter dagger]

Clearly you don't know how to play the if you're calling it obsolete. It has one of the best accelerations from tier ten meds. Period. It has the best gun, the best DPM which goes up to stupid amounts with rammer, and is superior to ANY light or med when you play with the team. If you are left undisturbed in the leo you can farm stupid amounts of damage in a short time. With adrenaline you get maybe 4.5k DPM (estimate). If you are getting shot and dying in the leo, you don't know how to read maps, how to rotate, and how to read lineups. The leo is by far the HIGHEST skill ceiling med. On my AC I have about 3k avg dmg with 65% wr plus just playing the tank correctly. Sure I can die quickly sometimes, but there are times where the leo will win you games. It's meant to be a med to punish dumb players by drawing you in and eating your tank with its sheer amount of DPM and @hollow thistle its the Fastest check Above this should apply for all people who don't know leo quite well

[gloomy patio]

baiting enemies to yolo you might be the worst strat in the leo ever

[indigo light]

What's wrong with my account? It won't load.

[austere citrus]

are u using vpn?

[winter dagger]

If you have TDs camping on something like castia (don't know how to spell but Castle and windmill map) then you can bait them thinking they can get you out of the game. The leo is a big target and can easily put people into crossfires. But you're right, it works for aggressive players like myself, and very few people play it that way

[final warren]

I correct me if I'm wrong, but the M4 54 isnt getting that much of a nerf. It's getting a fairly big reload buff and a nice mobility buff in return.

The 30mm armor nerf will suck but it will still be almost as effective against regular ammo

You just won't be able to sit in the open if enemies are using prammo, which is how it should be for any tank

[solid sequoia]

You are correct, this is not a nerf to the M4 54.

[zenith steppe]

Firstly, I agreed with you (read my message above) and I agree with everything else you said below. and @austere citrus the STB is not the leopard. It's DPM does not even come close to the Leo's while having far worse mobility and accuracy. I would know I own both tanks.

Both tanks have different roles. The STB works and holds ridgelines while the Leo has the mobilty to relocate and farm damage from other areas. Not saying one is better than the other but they have different roles which they perform better at.

[misty lake]

Hiii

[spice otter]

oh yea , support HT , but its not fit for me anymore

[gloomy patio]

that's too risky and quixotic of a playstyle imo
especially on castilla, where mts can get the same smooth of dmg by peppering hts and tds that get lit without bearing any risks

[final warren]

Ah, I gotcha

[winter dagger]

High risk High reward, good players can capitalize it but not the best strat overall, it's just how I do well in it

[compact quiver]

Is it true that the shield of ls_4 will be folded?

[strange roost]

i dont think it will because thats just the design

[wicked ridge]

I think T-34-3 needs a few buffs on the standard pen, dpm, and gun depression also mobility because although it may be averagely good for a premium it's still struggling

[meager magnet]

There is no tank balance in this game so there can't be E-sports or big tournaments

[void siren]

there are esports and big tournaments

[meager magnet]

And they make no sense

[small crane]

Totally not Type 71 and/or Strv K spam
Glad 71 got nerfed
Will they even nerf Strv K ? Im not sure

[stone drum]

Nah, it just needs more alpha

[lost crane]

it just need to be T-34-2

[solar sonnet]

I think wg should make fcm50t become a ht, magazine 4 ammo, reload 20 sec, delay 1,5 s, make armor stronger, hp 1800, forward 45 km/h

[stone drum]

They basiczlly don't nerf premium tanks, lol.

[winter dagger]

Heavy Lorraine Brother @solar sonnet ^^ heavy

[marsh belfry]

so lorraine?
bruh i replied at the same time

@solar sonnet well lorraine got 4x225 clip too, so as said above me just a heavy lorraine

[gleaming forge]

Hol

[solar sonnet]

@stone drum @winter dagger @marsh belfry look up guys, I said make it ht lol

[lost crane]

Maybe, an ht, with 3x225 and 2s intra clip and 2,2k dpm

[quick lichen]

Your argument makes no sense. There is always tank balance. It doesn’t have to be good tank balance but it exists either way. The pros all use whatever tanks they can get the most use out of regardless of the balance of tier x tanks

[stone drum]

It would be better to make it a tier 7 heacy

[proud eagle]

May i ask what is the point of the "rating system" (if it ever could be called that) on the changes posted on #coming-soon ? Will the tanks that the overwhelming majority of people voted with a thumbs down be changed? Or is it just for show?

[granite pebble]

The accuracy and gun handling are both getting worse and youre losing a lot of DPM, one of the main attractions of the 113 was the gun, and the gun is being butchered

[winter dagger]

No it's to show our opinion on the Change it'll define what tanks are good or not depending on how WG implements it

[viscid bough]

The Amx mle got nerfed pretty bad

[final warren]

A little bit of both, but it's more for show. I'm pretty sure that they won't be changing anything, but future balance updates might be affected by it

But I'm 95% sure it's just there for players to vent. Either way, I wouldn't take those thumbs up/down seriously. Many players don't know how to balance correctly. Just look at the WZ 132-1. The vast majority believe it's a good change to the tank, when in reality it's a major nerf to an already struggling tank

[twilit crystal]

or bc getting downvoted by most people despite it being a buff to an average tank

[stone drum]

People probably think it's becoming a tvp or something.

[twin egret]

I gotta ask, is the 8mm penetration nerf on the e6 for all shell types? It was just left vague

[final warren]

Flip a coin, there's a 50% chance you get it right 🙂

But actually, my first thought was the standard ammo, not all

[granite pebble]

Just the AP, they will specify if its all shell types

[winter dagger]

Maybe just standard cause that's how wg does things

[upbeat needle]

I was happy to hear that the amx 30b will get buffed (better reload and gun), but sad to hear that the armor gets nerfed (which is unnecessary in my opinion)

[granite pebble]

Theyre doing it because they forgot that bad tanks can be buffed without losing anything in return

[fathom glacier]

Yes because it’s not premium tank. It’s collector tank as a tree tech. So it could be nerfed

[lost crane]

Even if it lose some armor, i think that it's a good buff, and i'm very happy, because i love 30b

[stone drum]

All tiers IX-X tanks can be changed, as their are no premium tanks at said teir.

[twin egret]

The Changes aren't final, people forget about this

[keen dew]

like doodles said in his complaint video, t10 will most likely change yearly

[final warren]

Right? It's the most ridiculous thing. A bad tank does not need a nerf to counteract a buff. And an OP tank does not need a buff to counteract a nerf. Most bad/OP tanks just need one or two stats buffed/nerfed to make them balanced. They are making it much more complicated than it needs to be

I've never played another game where someone OP gets a buff, and something weak gets a nerf

[fair sky]

so the amx 50 b already have full magazine time reduced by 0.98 s?

[stone drum]

T-34-3 could use a buff, it's way too slow.

[void siren]

It’s a premium

[gleaming apex]

44_rev#0 has been warned.

[remote ibex]

amx 50b shouldnt be touched
its fine like it is

[gleaming apex]

baltaislacis#0 has been warned.

[drowsy plaza]

It still doesn’t matter WG has the right to alter any tank for balance reasons. It is in the EULA.

[gleaming apex]

Steven / Skri#9143 has been warned.

[remote ibex]

then nerf the smasher and anni please

[hazy iris]

@remote ibex

[merry osprey]

My god bro, nerfing Collector Tanks, thanks 👍🤣 (mle 54)

[austere citrus]

its literally just a worse leopard 1, like literally?

they seriously have to buff obj 263 though, the tank is been irrevelant since like 2014

the speed is slow too

[dry rivet]

Releases notes about buffing the E6 Piranha to surreal levels, then selling it at the summer auction. These balance changes are money motivated. We’re not dumb, Wargaming.

[merry osprey]

@dry rivet surreal buffs? Where? 🤣

[stone drum]

I'm very aware, but that's a situation they don't want to put themselves in.

It's a massive PR & legal mess no company's wants

[dry rivet]

There! In your tears when you die to one. Now, don’t you cry “hacker” when he no scopes you, funny boy.

[teal crystal]

what armor? I see this as an absolute buff
@willow hawk
30B armor is already weak enough, that nerf is like bothing will change

[willow hawk]

Turret armor. #coming-soon

[wicked quest]

I mean if the terms and EULA state they can then they can there’s no hot water the “pr nightmare” would be the monthly troll here crying his smasher or anni got nerfed and to burn wg to the ground

[willow hawk]

Yeah, true. Weak armor, equates to irrelevant armor.

[stone drum]

Imagine if say progetto 46 got massively nerfed for example.

[wraith hornet]

Since the T95E6 is getting a slight buff and a new mechanic in 10.3, would 14,000 gold be worth the cost? Or should we wait till the last price drop to 12,500?

[stone drum]

This is not the correct channel, but yes the T95e6 will be an extremely strong tank after the changes & is absolutely worth the 14k gold.

[wicked quest]

Is that fair though it is cracked for a med but i too would be mad it got nerfed than a heavy instead tbh

[austere citrus]

i would nerf the progetto 46's pen tbh, thats about it

like how does it have 272mm pramo pen wtf

[teal crystal]

just saying WG made the EULA they can alter it like every other app is doing, the only way they'll realize they've done something wrong is when sales are below their expectations and that was made obvious when they introduced timers and spare parts when they expanded the normal 3 equipment slots to 9 slots

[stone drum]

It has 259 apcr premium which is mostly standard, progetto needs absolutely no nerfs, including penetration nerfs of any kind.

@teal crystal in the same way, just because I can legally evict my tenants, I don't because that's not necessarily always a good route of solving issues; invoking légal technicalities or "Rights".

[teal crystal]

but we all accepted the clauses and had the chance to read the whole thing, there is a clause in there allowing them to change terms and conditions, also this is a digital recreational activity not a legit human utility where you need it to survive

btw I don't see any legal attorney or class action being taken seriously about this game considering the history of the developers

[gleaming monolith]

It should be obvious by now that wargaming doesn't give a crap about balancing tanks, or any of our opinions, it's all motivated by money.

[keen dew]

lets balance all t10 which is 90% free for more money

[gleaming monolith]

It's a chain reaction, this all affects how people spend on the game,think about it... motivation to buy newer stronger premium tanks, get newer players to grind new lines, they change the meta entirely.

Their intentions seem quite shady to me, look at the damn store, it's littered with crates.

[subtle ocean]

Why is the grille being nerfed again ?

[teal crystal]

because why not? WG logic

[sweet skiff]

it’s toxic according to wg

[clear shuttle]

probably because its one of the top 5 most played tier 10s and they know its gonna stay that way after 10.3

[runic jackal]

WG pls buff the Caliban

[austere citrus]

obj 777 II is gonna absolute crush

[main tulip]

Grille change is not even a nerf. 600 vs 580 alpha is basically meaningless, and it gets more DPM and mobility

[clear shuttle]

but! but! 15cm = 640 alpha!!11!!

[balmy island]

yea its pay to win

[unique scaffold]

hello guys

[balmy island]

hi

[unique scaffold]

hi

[slender latch]

They already confirmed that some tanks just get chosen to be powercrept. They can't balance all tanks on a class/role but they would make a specific tank shine for a couple of updates.

"there are always some weaker tanks and some stronger tanks. It's impossible to make every one of them similar in game performance. So, instead of having a permanent list of great and mediocre vehicles, we want to rotate them."

[ornate warren]

Meanwhile tvp and fv4005:

[scarlet fjord]

They are touching my M4 54
i dont want their grubby hands anywhere near my tank

the disapproval rate is almost 9 to 1 WG...

[stuck acorn]

Grille one is 11:1

But i guess AMX changes are at least justified, they want to kick it out of the meta

[twin egret]

I'm in favor of having tungsten be removed from the tank, though the frontal armour nerf is too much, it already suffers from weak sides and the cupolas
we'd have to see how much of a nerf it is though
it is a lot than sheesh, yeah

[gloomy anchor]

14 to 1 for is4

[austere citrus]

agreed, strong frontal armor is necessarily (its like a t10 tornvagn).

tungsten removed makes sense, but other than that, its gonna suck

[scarlet fjord]

they want to slow down the games so they are nerfing the firepower on tanks specially heavy tanks
this is justifiable for M4 54 as it has insane firepower andi t was extremly mobile and had a lot of armor it's a menace in pubs in the right hands
at the same time i want it to be fun
that aspect of it having firepower yet your armor is overcomable easily if you make a mistake it was so much fun to me

[stuck acorn]

They actually don't nerf firewpower, most tanks got straight up DPM/Alpha buffs

[scarlet fjord]

not DPM
many tanks get alpha nerf that had a lot of alpha

[main tulip]

The sides are actually too strong

[stuck acorn]

But they get their DPM increased in return. That is more of a firepower buff than nerf.

It will make games only shorter, not longer

[stuck star]

still waiting for the AT series to get nerfed

[marsh belfry]

why? they arent even strong

[stuck star]

Not much can even hope penning the front, requiring a flank and even then they know you're doing it

[storm kiln]

I remember joking 3 years ago abt WG adding Tier XI mediums with 4k DPM, now we have the Leo I with 4k DPM 💀

[scenic kindle]

leopard isn’t a tier 11

[storm kiln]

No, what I’m saying is that no non-TD should ever have 4k DPM. Btw, I say this despite being an absolute Leopard-simp who has hundreds of battles in the tank. The Leopard 1 is by far my favorite tank, and I do pretty well in it, but there is no reason for it to have 4k DPM; it was perfectly balanced beforehand, and should’ve been left untouched. Unfortunately, Weegee decided that it was somehow a good idea to change all of Tier X 🤡

Oh well, I don’t mind too much, just slightly annoyed

[elder lodge]

if grille balance changes doesnt change they added reactions to get community feedback for no reason.

[remote sluice]

if u cant pen the gigantic tumor it has on top of it then u have a major skill issue bud. the line isnt even strong

[scarlet fjord]

you forget regular folks cant use DPM lol

[clear shuttle]

tanks get more dpm yes but how much of that dpm will you end up actually using per minute

[green agate]

Its on the front bruv, you still not gonna get penned by common HE on front, unless u stick your butt out in the open, yes you'll get penned with He

Maybe you got hit by hesh bruv there's just no way a regular HE can pen the 50b on the front its just impossible tbh and btw dont use google translate

[austere citrus]

ngl i think amx 50 b not having armor but having a better gun (plz buf it more plz) and make a bit faster is good

essentially pc bat chat lmao

[green agate]

All goods my G, you gonna get used to english when you keep using discord thats what happened to me soo yeah

[fair sky]

so the rebalance of amx 50 b is out yet?

[final warren]

Well that's just lazy. It's entirely possible to make every tank at least a viable option. There is 0 zero to nerf a tank that is already performing poorly

[mystic gorge]

I disagree. The major issue with the current game is nuking capability of like more than half the tanks at tier X. Tungsten + adrenaline was a SUPER toxic combo for the Amx m454. It made the tank able to nuke half a Heavies HP pool in like 10 seconds (nuke most of a med in the same time). The nerfing of alpha is supposed to help slow the game down. Realistically u only take on shot by making a dumb poke. But how much u take in that one shot matters. And it stacks throughout the battle

[remote sluice]

while i understand that they want to shake up the meta now and then to keep the game interesting, but making the weak tanks too weak while making the new meta tanks too strong is not justified at all.

it would be miles better to have the weakest tank not be completely irrelevant while the stronger ones not completely dominate the battlefield.

wg is clearly doing the former. fv215b has gone to pretty much irrelevancy, while e6 becomes even more dominating w better accuracy and dpm. that is not fair imo

[fair sky]

so the rebalance of amx 50 b is out yet?

[remote sluice]

id also want to add that, to rlly keep the game interesting, each tank should have a distinctive playstyle that is instantly recognizable to the players. M4 54 used to be the armored french that hits hard, but now its just another fast heavy that has no armor and doesnt even hit hard. IS-4 went from being the more armored russian heavy to being a worse IS-7. Foch 155 is still the same boring two round autoloader gimmick that can be found on the Yoh and (technically) the Minotauro. those are the tanks that have so much potential to become interesting, but nope wg gotta change them and make them less appealing to play.

also @fair sky all these balance changes including the 50b’s will come in update 10.3, which is not out until probably september

[fair sky]

so the 10.3 will be after the coming out of season 2

[fathom glacier]

Give Foch 155 120mm gun 3x400 alpha dmg like Foch B from pc. It’s should be fine.

[clear shuttle]

sounds boring imo, would rather play a t57

[remote sluice]

or we can put in the Foch B w that gun and make the Foch 155 be a tank w two big rounds and long intraclip. 580 alpha and 5s intraclip w like 19.5s full clip reload. we will have two competitive french TDs that are both fun to play and not be complete crap.

for the ppl who are annoyed w me repeating the foch 155 stats too many times, im sorry, but i rlly want to bring justice to my poor shotgun baguette. it has to have the uniqueness it deserves.

also while im at it, wg has to buff the 215b somehow. why on earth would they nerf a tank thats already hard to play? if they want to make it a glass cannon w low speed, fine, just give it 10 degrees of gun depression on the side and rear and boom u have a fun tank that is more forgiving to the players

@fair sky im not sure if it comes after season 2 or not but it will come in september

[twin egret]

It should get more alpha instead, while keeping the same dpm it currently has

[unreal jackal]

Please don't make me regret buying the carro

[remote sluice]

to make the Foch B more different from the T57, the gun can have 380 alpha and 2s intraclip and 19.5s full clip reload. the tank can also have below average gun handling to balance it out and not turn it into a TVP. mobility and armor can be the same w the Foch 155.

w these stats the Foch B should have more dpm than the Foch 155 (2910 dpm vs the 155’s 2840 dpm w the gun stats i suggested above) and faster clip dump, while having lower damage per shot and being more exposed than the Foch 155 due to clip size.

if both tanks are still too OP the full clip reload time can be lowered from 19.5s to like 20s for my Foch 155 stats suggestion and my Foch B stats suggestion. this will give the Foch 155 a dpm of 2784, and the Foch B a dpm of 2850.

ps: scroll up two comments to check out my proposal for Foch 155 stats

edit: or if ur lazy or u dont know which comment , here’s the link: #tank-balance-discussion message

@wild quartz alpha means damage per shot.

[wild quartz]

What’s alpha?

[storm kiln]

Problem is, you can’t rly give a 105mm any more alpha. The Leopard 1 already has the highest alpha of any 105mm-armed tank in the game, being a solid 10 ahead of most of it’s competition. Next update, the WZ-132-1 will also be getting 360 alpha, but with nearly 1000 less DPM. If they really wanted to buff the Leopard anyway, give it more pen. Sure, it may still be unnecessary, but at least you can reasonably explain that (newer ammo?)

[woeful forge]

The damage your shot does

[humble depot]

The average damage your shell deals. It can do between 75% and 125% of that amount.

[uncut tiger]

This 121B will not change parameters! Its only change something…

[verbal igloo]

121b still has super spd boost and now it also has the 132-1 mechanic. I think the 121b got a nice buff

[wicked quest]

Leopard strikes at Mach 7+ which is railgun speed btw

[storm kiln]

???

[merry sundial]

how to talk with admins please

[final warren]

Woah there, I'm all for making people realize the 132 is getting nerfed, but it didn't lose 1000 dpm. It is losing 300-350 DPM. Which is still a huge loss, but not 1000

Gotcha. The wording made it seem like you were saying it lost 1k

[storm kiln]

No, I’m saying it has 1k less than the Leopard

Alright, sry abt that 🤝

[runic jackal]

WG pls buff the Chieftain's hatch, just buff that and that tank would be relevant again. Please, it's waaaay too power crept

[final warren]

That's crazy now you mention it. The Leo will have 1k more dpm than the 132, despite both tanks being firepower centered tanks.

Imo this "just increase DPM" mindset isn't a good thing

[storm kiln]

No, buff the turret armor to the point where it’s completely impervious, but leave the cupola as a weak spot.

Truly balanced tanks should have weakspots, even when they’re being played optimally. I propose simply buffing the turret armor, and I mean a B I G buff. It shouldn’t be so easily penetrable, and the hatch should be the ONLY turret weakspot (maybe buff it so that it can’t be penetrated by HE/HESH, but that’s it; it should be easily penetrable by all standard ammunition)

[void siren]

Ah yes the casual “buff the turret armor to absurd levels and leave a single weakspot” philosophy. Nothing could go wrong

POV: sidescraping

[runic jackal]

I get what your saying, but try facing a Kran, Concept 1b, Conq or even a t10e5 they will shoot you in the hatch with no problem at all, you can't even poke anymore cuz it gonna be an auto pen. The Chieftain's turret is one of the strongest in game I think it's like 350mm in the front if I remember correctly, but that's all irrelevant when your getting auto penned as soon as you poke.

[storm kiln]

Like actually, what is WG thinking?!

@runic jackal I’ll respond in 5 mins, gimme a moment

[slender latch]

I think in their perspective having all tanks too "balanced" in each class would make it uninteresting or bland so they switch metas instead every update or so.

[storm kiln]

I see your point, and I can very easily understand how that can be very frustrating. I would personally prefer it if they simply buff the turret, and and leave the hatch mostly the same (maybe a slight buff and/or make it smaller). But that’s just my opinion, and you can have your own opinion on how you would balance the tank. I personally don’t mind the hatch all too much (except for the rare instance where I get penetrated by HESH ), but if you’d prefer that, then I respect your opinion.

I’m more of a medium player, so I don’t really ever face Chieftains frontally, so I guess I’m not fully qualified to decide how heavies are balanced (I play the E 100 and IS-4, Chieftain, and Strv K…that’s it). All I can say is that when I do play the Chieftain, it doesn’t bug me all too much. I just wiggle the turret a bit while raising my gun and that works most of the time. Against skilled players, it’s less effective, but a skilled player and undermine the effectiveness of most basic tricks.

[final warren]

If they played and tested the tanks, they could easily make all of the tanks viable options. There is no reason to deliberately nerf tanks to make them bad, while buffing tanks to make them too strong. Doing that is what makes the game bland, because then everyone is going to just play the same 20 tanks over and over again

[slender latch]

Though I don't mind that they switch the meta by buffing unpopular tanks they could at least work their way into balancing all tanks. This would would also be good to veterans that researched all the tech trees so they could use a tank that they have just collecting dust not being played.

[runic jackal]

Just make that hatch smaller, like the E5's or 60tp's one. And I won't even complain. This tank used to have the best DPM out of any heavy, best gun, and had the best turret in tier X. Now it's none of the previous. I'm not asking to bring it back to it's former glory. But it desperately needs a better buff than the one it's getting. Why would you even get the cheiftain if there's the Super Conq?

[storm kiln]

Alright, I can get behind that. Good discussion, brother 🤝

Maybe also give it a slight DPM buff, so it’s actually kinda special again. Either that, or stop giving everyone DPM buffs. There is no reason for a Maus to have anywhere near the Chieftain’s DPM. The Strv K, I can understand; the WZ-113, I can understand; but the Maus? Absolutely not. I’m not asking for a big DPM buff, maybe just 100-150 more —if even—, so it can be intimidating again.

[sullen summit]

Why can I not find any information on what is gonna happen to the t95e6

[ancient rampart]

Blind I guess #coming-soon message

[rapid basin]

Can I ask a question without getting banned for the reason "asking a question" and "laughing at a joke" here? Cause is asking agenst the rules?

Pretty sure some mod was really mad at the time cause 8 people got banned and me and doge got banned for 3 days for "asking moderation"

[distant river]

Discussing mod decisions isn't allowed, as it clearly says in the rules
It's nothing to do with anyone else, and you don't have the context or the knowledge of what has happened. It wastes everyone's time

[rapid basin]

So we can't ask anything? Wow that's messed up

[stuck acorn]

Well i once got warned just for saying "What have they done" after multiple people were muted/banned.

I didn't even mean to question anybody's decision, i literally just waanted to know what these people did that so many of them got penalized 😂

That's pretty stupid imo, but whatever, i don't want to get warned again for not sticking to channel's topic

[rapid basin]

I wasnt asking the mod I was asking others questions and I got banned for "spamming" even though there's a 5m delay and a cap limit.
The and other thing I said was 40m before I was banned so how was I spamming if I said 1 thing that whole day so is saying 5 words in 1 day spamming?
They should add to the rules that "asking anyone questions will get you banned"

[distant river]

@rapid basin You can ask questions
Just not about mod decisions that are nothing to do with you.

@stuck acorn It has zero impact on you or anything at all, it just wastes the mods time.

This is also not the channel to discuss the rules in

[rapid basin]

I dint ask moderation anything about their decisions. I was asking about why give a 155mm 400 alpha nothing about their decisions

[hollow jacinth]

The new M4 (114 sp2), now u know why the m4 armour was nerfed

[solid sequoia]

They’re not trying to use the 114 SP2 to replace the M4 54 lol, the SP2 is much closer to a Chinese Maus/E100 combination

[atomic geode]

Yes, 130-140mm Upper plate - IS4 and AMX m4 nerfs are the WORST! I dont even own an IS4 yet - prolly never will til it gets buffed again. But I HATE what they are doing to AMX M4 1954 - I JUST BOUGHT That tanks - for 3 reasons: 1) High frontal armor (HUUUGE and weak sides of hull and turret) 2) Because it has 480 Alpha, and 3) because it had tungsten shells which make it do from 504 to 600 dmg while active, so 550 Avg dmg. Now it will be 450 with its TERRRIBLE accuracy and gun handling, have less armor - TERRIBLE HEAT shells with only 300mm of pen base - it is just a MUCH WORSE T95E6 now, 450 alpha is not enough for a tank that big

[rapid basin]

The worst part is that they are changing all of t10 ANS THEY ARNT TESTING they are just doing random things, the community hates half the changes they have tons and dislikes but wargaming doesn't care they are gonna do it anyway and the same thing is gonna happen like warthunder did. But atleast warthunder is fixing it.
So as usual wg is screwing over amx m4 playes and everyone like usual

[stone drum]

Paper armour if the primary weakness of the AMX-50, as it is the trade-off the French chose to make.

[hollow jacinth]

M4 with tungsten was almost same as this sp2, so removing good frontal armour and tungsten on m4 is only way they can make this unique

[solid sequoia]

M4 is way more mobile, but lacks the armor the SP2 has. Comparing them is a big stretch, and something that doesn’t really make sense.

[hollow jacinth]

Sp2 doesn’t exist yet. For it to exist this m4 had to lose frontal armour and it’s higher avg dmg/shot for extra mobility from 10.3 . If u aren’t blind u can see the sp2 looks like shorter m4 from front

[stone drum]

Ignore the haters my son, you have my blessing to spread the true word.

[solid sequoia]

The SP2 isn’t going to compete with the M4 54 lmao, it’s not fast enough. It is going to compete with the E100 and Maus, neither of which compete with the M4 54 currently. Just because it looks similar doesn’t mean it is Lmao. Stop reaching.

[atomic geode]

I know... and it makes me even more angry

[hollow jacinth]

Once u get to hulldown, mobility isn’t a thing. The sp2 will do the job same as the current m4 but updated m4 won’t ( hence the replacement of the playstyle not the exact tank of course)

[solid sequoia]

Mobility will always be a factor lol. The M4 54 is able to get places faster, and get out of a bad situation faster. The 114 SP 2 will play a lot like the E100, which as of right now, doesn’t compete with the M4 54. Stop reaching, please.

[stone drum]

As of my current knowledge, 114 sp2 actually has significantly weaker armour thann amx and virtually every heavy

[solid sequoia]

It was given quite a nice buff to its frontal turret armor

[hollow jacinth]

M4 had the sp2’s armour and more ( the mobility ) , so they remove m4’s armour which allows for sp2 to exist , go on and say again ‘stop reaching’

[dapper zenith]

So WG saying “gun dispersion will increase” is the same as “dispersion will become worse” right ?

[hollow jacinth]

Yes

[dapper zenith]

TY

[solid sequoia]

M4 54 has more mobility, less overall armor, and a different gun. The SP2 is a much more classical super heavy. They play differently. Stop reaching.

[hollow jacinth]

.

[solid sequoia]

You can say that all you want, but they are clearly different tanks. You just have to stop reaching with these wild conspiracies and actually look at the stats and how each tanks plays. It’s not that hard.

[hollow jacinth]

U can try so hard to undermine every other person’s opinion and keep expecting respect 🫡 , it’s not that hard? Ok bruh

[solid sequoia]

I’m not trying to undermine your opinion, I’m pointing out how it’s wrong. That is the point of a discussion. You claim that just because the armor is similar, the tanks must the similar. You completely ignore the very different guns and mobility that lead to a different playstyle. That is what I’ve been saying from the start, that they aren’t the same due to multiple different factors. You then proceed to say my opinion is trash, and say I’m undermining opinions? Ironic.

[hollow jacinth]

I just wanted to justify why they nerfing m4s armour, coz I have no other* reason I can think of

[solid sequoia]

If they didn’t nerf it’s armor, it would be a fast heavy tank with relatively high dpm and alpha, along with pretty strong frontal armor. The armor nerf shouldn’t hit too hard as it still has a crazy thick mantlet that covers the entire front of the turret essentially

[unique scaffold]

add obj 277

[acoustic estuary]

Just because you can’t keep up an argument and lost one doesn’t mean you can act like that lad.

[hollow jacinth]

I have removed the gifs, i was never here to argue but to share my opinion and don’t wanna continue it either

[acoustic estuary]

There’s nothing wrong with saying that you lost an argument lad. You over exaggerated by adding random stuff that doesn’t matter in an argument. You should say sorry to the dude.

[hollow jacinth]

Ok lad I apologise and yes I lost the argument

[bronze valley]

Type japan 10 tier baff penetration plis

[rapid basin]

Pls speak English if you mean the type 71 it's getting a damage buff and HEAT is going to AP do it does kinda get a penation buff

[bronze valley]

mean that type 71 has too little penetration, I think it should have a minimum of 20+ to penetrate AP ammo, and it rotates slowly, which means that such is 4 eats it, and dmg 400 is too little, minimum should be 440.. And what do you think and what do you think about this machine

[wicked quest]

I think you should drop a tier

[humble depot]

I think you need to get good because having 400 alpha in Tier X isn’t weird.

[granite pebble]

Type 71 is literally taking the IS-4's original place and it's going to have 330mm pen AP rounds. It's fine.

[fresh relic]

What's happened to the 'BlackBird' Camo for the FV4005?? I had purchased it yesterday, but as I was just about to play it, the Camo has been completely removed. What have you done with the Camo Blitz Team!!
@solar sorrel

[ancient rampart]

file a claim through support
no one here can help you

[bronze valley]

Heavy tank with 400 alpha for me with such penetration is weak e5 has the same alpha but the tank is better ehh

[fickle shoal]

E5 is better for facehugging but other than that they are pretty equal based on my time playing them, although depending which special equipment you run on type your opinion might differ

(I use gun dep. one)

[shut venture]

P

[exotic girder]

Not really just shoot the hatch as long as ur not in a short tank like an IS-4/7 its easy to just hatch the E5 in a facehug

[stone drum]

The e5 has a pretty small hatch to be fair.

(Also please send me your pfp)

[fickle shoal]

Ofc, hatches are the universal weak spot except for certain tanks, (and it's troll as well)

[stone drum]

Speaking of that, it would be nice to see Wargaming universally modify rangefinders to be spaced armour and not part of the armour profile.

[cold dove]

Devs. Make it so a tank can still move its undamaged track if only one track is broken, this allows the tank to still wiggle while being stranded

[granite pebble]

It's getting 420 alpha in 10.3

[teal crystal]

you can't solve those issues here, you must submit a ticket and wait for a response

[mortal falcon]

Heat the cheeks

[teal crystal]

pause.

[mortal falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/troll-troll-face-gif-25116980

[nimble zodiac]

POV: You tried to HEAT the T110E5’s turret cheeks (he is gunblocking you)

[broken kernel]

@left grail 🤔

[granite pebble]

More like PoV: A 60TP decided to face hug you and you will simply die because their gun is the size of a continent

[hushed sparrow]

Whats the balence changes for the Strv?

[teal crystal]

not announced yet, wait for EU announcement in #coming-soon

[void dirge]

@fickle shoal e5 is terrible for sidescraping unlike the the type

[nimble zodiac]

And 70mm

[unique scaffold]

which will give me money for errors in the game through which I lose points gold spent on your purchases, grandpa ordinary old only arrows to vanishing tanks game freezes and you don't know what's going on

[twilit crystal]

no lol this game is far too lenient on being tracked. Tracks repair in under 5 seconds and you usually have 2 repair kits

[mystic gorge]

Honestly there should be a limit to one track repair

[wicked quest]

Pc was a nightmare with single use repair kits

[mortal falcon]

I think that was better tbh. At the very least, a repair should go

[meager magnet]

Wg please nerf the dpm on all tanks because you keep buffing the dpm here and there and after a few years the dpm increased about ~300 - ~400 on all tier10 tanks. When this dpm buffs don't stop in the future updates, we might have 5k dpm on a tier10 tank after ~5 - ~6 years I guess🤔

[keen dew]

i love how a single match is 2 min long

[ornate warren]

Thats easily the case as long as the E5 user doesnt really know what he/shes doing

[thorny timber]

I can't play 1.6k DPM on a goddamn t10 tank unless it's an Autoreloader,at least you've got to have a way of making the match less long other than people yoloing and dying under a minute

[ornate warren]

💀

[stone drum]

That would be genuinely horrendous

[mortal falcon]

Nah. OG WoT being designed around that actually made it much more tactical. Better than their continued meta of what, repair/medkit/food? And certainly better than the "balancing by consumables" we have now

[storm kiln]

T H I S . This is exactly my point.

[stone drum]

Ah, yes the OG wot of prammo being available for only gold & having zero downsides.

[mortal falcon]

Still has zero downsides on PC WoT. It was better to have prammo locked behind a legitimate paywall honestly. Solves the prammo spam issue.

[ornate warren]

Yeah that would be horrible since having high dpm or burst speed on clipper would be highly shadowbuffed by doing that

Dont forget the fact that wg still trying to make game faster, which would make this idea even more terrible when implemented

[mortal falcon]

"being designed around that"

I'm not proposing actual changes here, I'm just talking about old WoT PC.

I do think that a second repair should be removed, though

[exotic narwhal]

Hi Guys Does this go 🇫🇷 AMX 30 B: reload time gets 0.96 s shorter; gun dispersion and aiming time are reduced. Turret armor becomes weaker. HP count is set at 1800 points.
same for AMX 30 1 er Prot?

[obtuse sentinel]

They are both separate tanks at different tiers so it doesn't make sense for wargaming to give them the same changes now does it? The changes for the 30B are only for the 30B.

[unique scaffold]

reactions died

[storm kiln]

💀

[exotic narwhal]

ok ty

[south mesa]

?

[main tulip]

Why would it be the same for 30 1er

[limpid helm]

Хто говорить українською?

[stuck acorn]

this is english server, if you want to speak Ukrainian i think you can do it on Russian server (correct me if i'm wrong)

[austere citrus]

give leopard 1 tungsten rounds, why it has reticle calibration makes no sense since its accuracy is already so good

[ember mountain]

give 30B 380 alpha dmg plus tungsten rounds lol

[storm kiln]

Guys, when WG shows the changes to the reload of a tank, is that just referring to the base reload?

I wanna know because it slightly influences the exact DPM figures, and I’m trying to calculate the exact DPM of every light and medium without having to wait a few weeks for the update to drop

[odd night]

I agree we should remove calibration from leo but dont give anything in exchange

[clear shuttle]

yes base reload

[gloomy patio]

it won't

[clear shuttle]

ur right, it’ll have like 3.95k dpm so close enough

[gloomy patio]

i genuinely want to know the thought process behind giving leo 1 3.96k dpm and giving stb a massive buff

[storm kiln]

Ok, my bad

[frosty cairn]

Why do the developers replace reactive armor with a weak battle mechanic? On the 121B

[odd night]

Is base reload with 100% trained crew but without anything else such as rammer or food ?

[quartz snow]

✨️ rebalance ✨️

[odd night]

Well stb not great rn. Just lackluster on a lot of maps and situations. They could also have went with a slight accuracy and slight dpm buff (like a tad better dispersion and aimong speed and -0,3 s reload) but they decided to make it more diverse and didnt buff the obvious buffable stuff such a accuracy and rather went for a flavorful and interesting overhaul of giving premium ap to all japanese tanks. I believe its counterbalanced by the 320 damage tho for the stb.

@frosty cairn for flavor and because the consumable was not appropriated for a medium. I much prefer the batt’e mechanic. Now youll be able to get to snipe better and more often given that the reload time isnt far apart the 7 seconds of the mechanic. Same for the 132 rebalance towards better alpha it makes a lotta sense in regards to sniping

[gloomy patio]

stb is the best performing medium rn, so your first sentence is already wrong and everything else is probably also wrong

[odd night]

Stb is behind the god damn progetto, so your first sentence is already wrong and everything else is probably also wrong
Also a lot of mediums are about to get huge buffs so even if it was the best performing medium I would see logic in buffing it with 300 penetration in exchange for 320 alpha. Against the 4k leo, the heavy armor e50m and underdogs from the class such as 30b getting revamped it seems very fair to me
@clear shuttle sorry if i was being unclear. I am perfectly conscious that stb now will be stronger than before, and that the changes are in fact a buff. I am just saying this buff is not excessive that’s all. I absolutely agree its insanely map dependent

[clear shuttle]

stb may be “lack luster” but that dosent stop it from being one of the more easier mediums to play, even if its accuracy is kinda “mid” (imo it feels fine and dosent need a change) one of its drawbacks (having low dpm) is being removed, even if it loses alpha.
if anything the changes are just overall making it better and “stronger”
to skilled players it may still be a less viable option to lets say the leo 1 or 140 but it’ll def be a little more annoying to deal with, especially on good mt side hull down maps

@odd night yeah i agree on the excessive part, even if it loses alpha i dont think an easy to use hull down mt should have what 3.4k-3.5k dpm

[odd night]

Also I recognize the 140 changes as a huge buff and the 907 getting better too, the 30b much more viable, the t62a going into becoming a hulldown e50m especially if the model is good thats left to see… everything is pretty much getting buffed frankly when you think abt it stb is very very very fair
@gloomy patio very biased stats. 65%

[gloomy patio]

you are still wrong

"biased" nah I'm out

[distant river]

Don't use blitzstars stats they are almost completely useless. They are not update specific and do not take into account the players using them.
Blitzanalysiz.com has much better stats that are useful to look at

[stone moon]

Poor leopard 1

[clear shuttle]

907 isnt getting tungsten, but i do agree its getting more stronger than it needs to be

[odd night]

Well thats still not the top so my point is still good. Imo no tank that performs worse than prog should be put into question prog is a nightmare to me since they nerfed accuracy for 0 reason ?? Giving it 70 unneeded hpw too ? I hope they fix it next week btw it needs the accuracy back or itll never be competitive ( also thats not a whole bunch of accuracy just a little)

[sharp saddle]

@storm kiln The use of spoilers are not allowed in this server

[drowsy plaza]

@odd night Perhaps you need to wonder why that is.

[gloomy patio]

why is prog 65 the top performing
what
how

[drowsy plaza]

It’s the relative WR for mediums of 55-65% tier X players

Which used to be a large segment of the balancing criteria back when WG used WR and DMG for 55-65% players to balance tanks.

[drowsy plaza]

The problem with taking the 65%+ data is 1) few 65% plus tier X players exist, and the games they play doesn’t often give enough information. If you look at the tier X Med data for them only three tanks pop up, because only three tanks had enough games in them by those players for a data point.

Another issue that comes up is you can’t segregate platoon results from solo. One reason that WG implemented the you can’t platoon in test vehicles was a platoon of 60% plus players can really skew results.

[gloomy patio]

that doesn't explain why prog 65 of all mediums has the highest wr

[verbal igloo]

Progetto and tvp nerfs this week (?) The world of tanks is healing

[stone drum]

Because concealment on movement gives 121b alot more flexibility.

[twilit crystal]

Its not on movement. Its only being spotted for 7 instead of 10s and you can tell who instantly is spotting you if they are spotted . However you still have super speed boost to replace reactive with

[stone drum]

Oh, I see you are correct. Still that will be a very powerful mechanic.

[odd night]

That is why i said that this was biased data. You know i maybe sounded like a big noob up there but I was for two months or so in the supertest team (left because they ask for a lot of effort, which is well big up to the supertest team) and there you really understand balancing takes those big three factors into account, feeling of the tank, stats of the tank for average to slightly good players, and lastly diversity and where it sits compared to the ideal image of the gameplay it should have. The stb does have 11 degrees of gun depression which is not anecdotal and thats pretty much everything it has. It also did have a very slight buff with the pbr turret which I must recognize is slightly better than the old one, nothing too crazy tho. However, in my opinion, and that would have been my opinion as a supertester too, bringing the alpha down 20 in exchange for 0.96 reload is an even change. Yes, dpm buff, but alpha nerf. Alpha nerf in a hulldown med overall very fragile with 1961 hp.
Honestly, this is not a huge buff, it is a small buff and more of a rework. I believe it is really flavorful and makes sense regarding the role of the tank. Even light tanks will now have 360 alpha, this is not negligible, you are becoming a quick firing tank in a world of light and medium tanks with bigger alphas that can peekaboo better and hide better while reloading. While before there would be more confrontation and moments where maybe that wiggling unicum in the stb would heat the e50m or t62 below while the wiggling opponent wouldnt have that chance and in that sense the change will make stb harder. Same goes for harrassing lights.

Now, the ap premium was the flavor choice, the third balancing factor choice, in favor of making all japanese tanks have the same as hori with a premium ap and for stb and hori close premium ap to normal ap damage. Maybe some will spam the tank in plat, and maybe, there might be a nerf with -20, -30 alpha on the prammo down the road.

What i mean is, lets see how it goes, it might be fine like for the ho ri. If it isnt, i believe all we will need is nerfing the prammo alpha (or pen, that also might be an idea, like with 270 it would be much harder to aim still, also that would give it the compensating disadvantage of no real high prammo) down a little to make it 300 or 290.

[gloomy patio]

... do you genuinely not understand why stb is very strong right now, and why giving it a massive buff is not a good decision?

[odd night]

Im saying it is a decent tank which feels good but that, in spite of most meds getting buffed ro revalorize them next to the heavies, can get a buff which again is not massive since the alpha would go from 350 to 320 in the case of shooting only prammo as you seem to fear it. I believe there would be a nerf for this down the road, but a very slight one, like -30 alpha or pen on the prammo

[ember mountain]

what the hell am i looking at

what are these paragraphs

[atomic geode]

Armor Nerf has nothing to do with why I am pissed, if it were JUSAT a ~20mm nerf to upper plate, I wouldn't care so much. AMX M4 1954 will be nOTHING like the tank it is

[frosty cairn]

The developers should add concealment on moving and adaptive concealment on the 121B

[gloomy patio]

I'll explain to you why stb is a very strong tank

it has 11 gd, it has a very very strong turret, it has a decent gun, and it has the mobility to reach hulldown positions fast enough

the statement below is nothing but facts

[errant anchor]

Stb kinda mid ngl no hull armour bad tank

[atomic geode]

STB-1 is one of the highest performing tanks, particularly for mediums - especially for skilled players, but whatev... Ranks above TVP 50/51 for 65%ers and is basically tied on Winrate for all players. Tank is strong AF, buff will make it stronger - only losing 10 alpha for 300mm of AP pen - dont need Calibrated shells at all @twilit crystal Exactly, with turret armor that will bounce most things frontally

[twilit crystal]

Stb is definetely going to be the best med, the ability of td pen with medium tank dpm and a decent turret with 11 degrees of depression is crazy, the ho ri's super premium gimmick is kept balanced because usually 300 AP pen is enough, it isn't that common you need to really be using the gold, even if you are, you usually get penned in the ho ri when exposed. Say you are facing an e100 and you trade you just came out worse.

[odd night]

Didnt say that at any point. It has downsides and is very situational. Accuracy is meh, speed is not great, hull bad, you are greatly exaggerating its current dpm and turret strength which although true are below most meds etc etc, what i mean is there ARE things that compensate for the gun dep.
@atomic geode -30 alpha then not -10
To me the only thing it currently has is an average of med stats and 11 gd. The rest past the 11gd is average med. to face with upcoming buffs in other meds and the new heavies, it needed in my opinion the alpha lowering, dpm buff and an accuracy buff. Anyways in my mind it currently needs something, dpm at least maybe accuracy they chose to do pen but theyll maybe reverse it onto accuracy. I wouldnt have problem with it having ap prammo if it had 300 aloha

[atomic geode]

Only 10 less from PREMIUM. Also Blitz stats shows it is one of the strongest tanks overall - look I have trouble with my TVP, cause that reload is killer wioth so little armor, but I do NOT think the tank is weak. same for Progetto 65 - that gun loves to miss on the move especially

[twilit crystal]

the hull is pretty decent tbh and quite troll, the current dpm is poor but it is going upto 3200 and 3300 respectively. 3200 with 300 AP pen is pretty absurd, you can start auto penning heavy tanks upper plates at a lot of angles

[gloomy patio]

how am i exaggerating its turret armour lol

[odd night]

T62 a better for example, i would put it on the same level as 50t. Which is, good, but only great when hulldown and thats why you think its super strong. You imagine the tank only on the ridge at mines or any big ridge. Sometimes its out in the open, sometimes it has to slightly turn the turret revealing more. Its not as polyvalent as even a leo 1

[gloomy patio]

anything is bad when it is out in the open though?

[stone drum]

Still though mediums buffs are absolutely a step in the right direction. I can barely understand the unbridled hatred for mediums this community reaks of.

[twilit crystal]

Its kinda weird though that one of the stronger tier ten meds that's getting buffed the hardest.

[atomic geode]

E50M getting APCR makes me annoyed - but I like the idea of an armor buff

[odd night]

Well I meant when revealed slightly more. For example the turret shape not being round and the sides showing weakspots quicker than for others, and its also having a hatch which not all others have. And as @stone drum says meds need an overall buff stb shouldnt be left out. And guys stop forgetting how bad the dpm is and how meh the accuracy those are really important to understanding why the tank is not more than ok right now

[errant anchor]

How do you not realise that even with stb having meh overall dpm stats wise, its effective dpm is extremely high.

Calling stb only okay is actually baffling LOL

[stone drum]

Yes it is indeed a weird step, but it's a step nonetheless and I feel we can largely agree that's better than a complete lack of a step.

[atomic geode]

But its getting a DPM buff. Also doesnt change that it is one of the strongest already - gonna be the med to have after the change, especially since it is getting 300mm AP PREMIUM - that is insanely good, way better than 330mm HEAT pen. I don't disagree with STB-1 buff, but it is weird

[gloomy patio]

your "when revealed slightly more" theory is completely wrong

yes it has a hatch, no way it has a weakspot just like every other hulldown med, except those meds don't have 11 gd and have a larger turret and have bigger weakspots

[atomic geode]

If AMX M4 1954 is nerfed due to comp, will WG ever nerf the Strv K? nope, money (so far only in gambling crates) @solid sequoia - that would really surprise me. But we will see

[solid sequoia]

They are going to nerf the STRV K lol

[odd night]

And have a better dpm (every single one of them 😉 a better alpha (leo carro) or no weakspots at all (62a).

Lastly, stb is also an expensive to research tank, after a horrible line to grind, which scares off many noobs and average tankers which go lower the stats on some other tank like 62a or even e50m.

The stats arent always making sense too, even tho i was actually right and stb isnt the best performing and is beaten by the prog and several other, which in spite of every medium getting buffed to get closer to the level of heavies would still justify a nice buff for stb too, at least the dpm.

I would never dare to say that the progetto 65 is the best medium yet in some stats it is . Thats an example. I would even say its meh. I think either the accuracy either the dpm has to be reworked towards making it more viable.

I am comparing them because you are unfathomably comparing them to each other when claiming stb is the best performing. Indeed every tank has a different playstyle thats the purpose of the game. Thats why tanks performing slightly apart in stats may not be needing buffs and nerfs to equalize, because it is a more intricate art than what you think. I think stb absolutely deserved a buff, thats just where we disagree; although i agree giving it an incentive to just spam prammo wasnt smart because it will 100% have to be reverted. I would have wished for the same buff except premium ap deals 290 instead of 320. Thats all.

[gloomy patio]

let's look at the e6 buff again
3.3k dpm with no alpha penalty
speed buff
stabilization mechanic
loses only 8mm of pen for all that
❓

[errant anchor]

Has bad armour tho so quite a mid tank tbh esp cause the alpha is so low

[gloomy patio]

honestly so true, it has no hull armour therefore it is bad

[humble depot]

It’s going to be better than any medium while not having any penalties. It’s going to be insanely OP.

[final warren]

I'm curious as to how many players use calibrated shells. I usually only use calibrated on autoloaders. I don't even use them on the 132.

DPM is just so important for me, and I don't usually have a problem penning, it's mostly a problem with just flat out missing

[atomic geode]

I use Calibrated on all my mediums, having 325-330 HEAT pen, only standard T 10 Meds I have are E50M, T-22 and 907 - have TVP and Progetto so I can actually fight heavies and TDs is kinda important - also makes those shot that MIGHT have bounced hit. It essentially gives you higher EFFECTIVE DPM - but for Competitive, yeah rammer 100% I do use Rammer for Lowe, Keiler, Titan 54d, Lansen C, Chimera - but none of my tier 10s so far. Needs to have high enough standard, and HIGH premium for the tier. I am prolly gonna use rammer on Regressor cause it has 320 APCR - after this stream and a week, I will buy the regressor top gun for ~1k gold, not that tank playing til then

[odd night]

Always rammer

[fickle shoal]

I pretty much always use cali but tanks with already good enough standard pen i run rammer

[gleaming apex]

poroma.#0 has been warned.

[solid sequoia]

Running Cali on tier 10 meds is kind of throwing tbh. Their main advantage is dpm, and throwing that away is not worth the extra pen.

[atomic geode]

It is BARELY any extra DPM in most tanks. Having prem that can actually hurt a Maus is important too. Either way they have more DPM than anything other than TDs maybe, and not even those always (other than tanks like TVPO and Progetto which cant use rammer anyway)

[stone drum]

I hope they dont make it completely awful to play.

[solid sequoia]

It’s around 200-250 dpm on most tanks, which is quite substantial. And sure, you may still have more dpm than heavies, but they still have 500-700 more HP than you. And tanks that you could pen with Cali can just use EA and now even with Cali you can’t pen them, making rammer the better choice as you kill tanks you penetrate faster.

@stone drum I have a feeling it’s getting nerfed into the ground, but I could be wrong. I know it’s definitely getting nerfed, but that’s about all I know 🤷‍♂️

[fickle shoal]

Imagine they buff it, that would be rather silly

[atomic geode]

Tanks running EA is a good reason WHY to use cali. But man, you do you - I see several high level players running cali. Comp scene is totally different cause your team 100% works WITH you and not 1 or 2 guys maybe do okay next to you. I run cally on most tier 10 heavies too - having 341-374 HEAT pen is WAY better than just 310-340

[drowsy plaza]

Depends on the tank. Some Meds need CS to pen heavies. One of the biggest take aways of a lot of the AP pen nerfs is WG seems to want some tanks forced into running CS and others not. And some can’t afford to run CS due to already tragic DPM (AMX 30B currently)

[burnt venture]

Cali is only useful for big gun tanks with already low DPM. Otherwise, it's much better to use rammer.

The only exception for that would be Russian meds because of the 290 pen HEAT. Otherwise, cali makes so little of a difference especially with lower pen tanks (since they mostly have AP as standard now) that it doesn't make sense to give up such a large portion of DPM compared to the super low DPM tanks.

Plus the next update you're getting an AP pen nerf on a bunch of tanks, which completely negates the point of running cali anyway on some of these tanks. Just load the gold.

[final warren]

I mean it's a 7% faster reload/dpm. That's nothing to scoff at.

I get your point about effective DPM, but in my eyes, cali will only help me on a small percentage of my shots, whereas any time I shoot 2+ times in a row (which is a lot for me) I'm benefiting from the rammer.

I can't tell you how many times I've shot a tank right before it goes around a corner. If I had cali, I wouldn't have reloaded in time. It also gives me peace of mind when fighting the same tank I'm playing. I know that they can't just out reload me. I've had enemies in the same tank use cali, and I'll just shoot them twice for every one in return

Reducing a reload by even a half second is game changing for me

[drowsy plaza]

@burnt venture and @final warren I wish they brought back the pre 3.8 10% rammer.

It would make a lot more folks think

[stone drum]

Why would they nerf a Tank they haven't even milked yet to an unplayable state? It's not like it's the dominator of pubs, lol.

[atomic geode]

Its a lot less than half a second on most tier 10 medium tanks, but the DPM is around 200-300 - again nothing to scoff at, correct. I have played with both, and for me - on MOST tanks Calibrated is the way - especially with HEAT as prem. Like I said I use rammer on tanks like Chimera and Titan 54d - Titan 54 has 270 HEAT pen base at tier 8 - for a med that is insane

[burnt venture]

EA also doesn't matter at all for most tanks at tier X. Remember, it's not a 4% buff to armor thickness, but rather a 4% increase of the homogenization value of armor (from 1 to 1.04).

EA is only more effective with mostly angled armor. Only certain heavy tanks and heavy TDs can really benefit from this. I can count probably on a single hand the number of tanks which have their armor improved enough by EA that it's worth it to run over the extra HP provided by Improved Assembly.

Overall, if you have a tank with over 3k DPM, you're losing enough DPM by not running rammer to matter. Especially when for most tanks with high DPM, you're most likely facing other simiarly armor-less tanks in a brawl and not trading shots while sitting in a position like a heavy.

[final warren]

Russian meds lose .4 seconds off their reload, and they have the fastest reload in tier X.

@drowsy plaza yeah 10% would be nice, but I'm afraid of increasing DPM even more than WG already is

@burnt venture What's this homogenization thing?

[gleaming apex]

_1cestorm_#0 was muted.

[atomic geode]

I agree it doesn't mattter for most, but for me E-100 is better with in randoms, I bounce so much more from my turret face and sides. Also tanks with sandbag - usually enough HP to go with EA if the tank has good angled armor to improve. I have ZERO mediums I run EA on - I tried it on E50M it didnt seem to do much. E-100 gains a 281mm turret face - angled ofc, sides become 156mm thick - and when u angle between shots it is all red - especially to Mediums with no Cally, Turret face is 100% red to Tier 10 meds without cally - even prem rounds

[drowsy plaza]

@burnt venture no WG finally managed to explain its an actual 4% armor increase. Which is why Armor Inspector now factors it in. It was answer in a Q&A previous as I finally managed to beat an answer out. 😉

EA can be good in pubbie for hard turret tanks to bait shots. Other tanks it can force Prammo usage to reduce the enemy DPM.

[nimble zodiac]

I mean, I just opted to prove it’s an armor buff with EA with Progetto 65

Well… Pz. III and Obj. 268 first

They removed homogenization :p

[drowsy plaza]

You can verify it fairly easily in game.

[stone drum]

Homogenization is the quality of the armour steel represented as a factor relative to a standard value of 1.

However it has been largely removed and is Essentially irrelevant in blitz.

[final warren]

Gotcha. How would that be any different than changing the base thickness of the plate tho? 100mm * 1.04 is 104mm, and 104mm * 1.0 is still 104mm.

It seems like two different ways to get the same result

[nimble zodiac]

I think the difference was that 3CR isn’t affected by increased armor homogenization

@atomic geode E100 is a flat-grounded brawler 🤔

[atomic geode]

Well, I suppose - both improve armor. But adding 4% to base armor is just MUCH easier than another variable like Homoginzation. @burnt venture Uh-huh, but things are RARELY on flat ground, also you prove my point in using it more, even shells that roll high in pen will be far less likely to dmg me. All opinion at this point m8

[burnt venture]

Bruh.

Meds have 300mm base HEAT pen. Even running CS they only get 319mm.

E100's faceplate on flat ground is already ~310mm unangled. It won't provide any more protection against any mediums without CS. There's no reason for you to run EA outside of bouncing those people who are running CS against you while your turret is unangled.

Even if you do run EA, you still won't stop 340mm HEAT from penning which most of the more meta heavy tanks have in the first place.

With that much HP, you're better off gaining the HP.

Things are rarely on flat ground yeah and you should also rarely be flat-on to the enemy or below the enemy. Running EA to bounce more at that point sounds way more like compensating for terrible angling and positioning.

[mental thistle]

Meds get 330 heat pen if their base heat pen is 300

[stone drum]

Tier X Tanks that get a tangible benefit from EA:

Ho-ri (heavily debatable)
Jagdpanzer E-100
Foch 155
Minotauro

IS-4
VK.90
Maus
E-100
Type 71.

Kpz 50t.

[atomic geode]

Trouble is, you cant control Team OR enemy position in randoms. You can be 100% in the right spot, but a bad team means you get surrounded. One extra bounce from even a 260 dmg shell is worth more than 250 HP @burnt venture Its called a fail team, bruh. Yes you are correct, but when you have 1 afk, and 2 ppl shooting in the air, where TF u think is gonna get you a win? Again opinion. I get 1 extra bounce - its worth more than 250 HP base Also turret sides become much better. So deos side armor, skirts are 63mm, side is 125

[nimble zodiac]

So run HP, glad y’all agree

[final warren]

Just checked on armor inspector.

Leo 1 (300mm HEAT) will never pen a e100 (No EA) frontal turret, as we know.

Cali Leo 1 will pen a non EA E100 turret.

Cali Leo 1 will easily pen the bottom half of an EA e100 turret, but < 60% chance on the top half.

Cali Leo 1 will pen a 20° angled non EA e100 turret.

Cali Leo won't pen a 20° angled EA e100 turret

So the difference isn't big, but it's there

[burnt venture]

If the enemy team is surrounding you and you think that's "100%" the right spot, then that's the wrong spot lmao

Your position should be dependent on where your team is. There's none of this "morally" correct positioning that gives you the ability to blame your team for getting you surrounded

The story is, angle correctly in E100 and you're immune from any kind of medium, with any kind of shell, running CS or not. If you're trying to bounce mediums in E100 EA does literally nothing provided you do the right angling. And running EA won't stop the threats you see more often, which are the tanks running calibrated 330 or 340 base pen HEAT, from buttering you anyway.

There may have been a case if this was pre-armor buff E100. But this isn't that version any more.

[stone drum]

The biggest thing is scaring bots into holding their shots and not firing.

[burnt venture]

in E100 though you want enemies to fire so you can unangle and shoot. Is that not the whole point?

The current E100 turret is immune from lower pen enemies when correctly angled, regardless of CS. Against higher pen enemies it's butter no matter how you angle it. Running EA doesn't help you against 340+ pen HEAT (especially when tons of players run CS) and not running it makes little difference when playing correctly against lower pen tanks.

I'd just take the extra HP at that point. E100 at the end of the day is a trader tank and the extra HP is more than welcome when most of the tanks you see on heavy flank will butter you with gold. E100 should also be isolating targets using cover and is not made for driving in the open angling the turret like a Maus.

Maus on the other hand only has 260mm cheeks which are vulnerable to even medium tank gold when angled, which then there's your case for running EA so you can angle effectively to more targets and do your job which is soaking up damage.

[teal crystal]

I wish they bought back camo net exclusive to destroyers with 3.8 Camo Net buff of 25% when stationary

and Exclusive to lights Binocular Telescope bonus of 25% to view range when stationary

[frozen marlin]

Please fix Is4 Wargaming, I loved it so much, it was my favorite tank. now its honestly crap

[winter dagger]

Good point but some tanks play better with rammer because of their play style like the leo. Basically a big light tank, and if you run cali, are you trying to get shot? My point being rammer is niche for a flank play style and basically my point is it's good on tier x meds for basically specific situations where having 200 more DPM could be a win or loss in a duel

[atomic geode]

100% true, heavies I run Calibrated almost without question, meds I go back and forth on - when I start bouncing regular and prem in my E50M, or T-22 medium I will swap back. TDs like Badger I run rammer without question. Minotauro gets Calibrated cuase HEAT and no rammer - those are my t10 TDs for now

[stone drum]

I mean I don't run EA on E-100 either (though I barely use E100 regardless), I'm just saying it actually makes an actually relevant difference in armour profile

[final warren]

Especially against tier 9. I haven't fact checked, but I would assume EA e100 would make or break a lot of tier 9 tanks ability to pen

[burnt venture]

Whether or not it actually makes an impact on armor profile depends on the relative pen thresholds of the enemy and whether running EA actually helps your armor meet those thresholds or not. Increasing your armor is pointless when enemies who can pen you still can pen with no issues while enemies which bounce you still bounce you even with CS.

Old E100 made some sense to run EA to stop meds running CS from buttering through your turret even when angled. But new E100 no longer has that issue. Running EA still won't help 330 or 340mm HEAT from buttering you though so EA has little to no value over a very significant health increase

Most tier 9s have pretty unimpressive premium rounds, most of which aren't a threat. There's a lot of ~310mm pen APCR and HEAT on the heavy tanks. The remaining few tier 9s outside of the TDs have the same guns as tier X tanks which also have the high HEAT pen, like M103 or Emil II. So the case with tier 9s is still the same

[stone drum]

Fair enough.

[atomic geode]

Forcing ppl to have to resort to premium also saves you HP - like if ppl had to use prem against you 4 times with a 400 alpha gun (340 premium) you are basically even versus Improved Assembly - the more people have to use premium to pen you the more you save. And sometims that premium bounces still - I have bounced a lot of JgpzE-100 shells etc in my E-100

[burnt venture]

People already resort to premium without EA lol. Almost nobody's AP penning your E100 or Jageroo casemate bud

[willow elbow]

I don’t really care what happens to the update, as far as they nerf tvp, that’s all I’m asking for

[atomic geode]

You are missing the turret's sides, the hull sides (62mm +125, vs 60 + 120) - lower plate from which I have bounced a LOT of shells - everything OTHER than the turret face and upper plate, bruh

[burnt venture]

Would be a good point, except correct angling does the exact same thing.

EA being 4% means that it's less effective on thinner armor in the first place. Against 260mm AP, you're able to angle 31 degrees instead of 29 degrees. Amazing.

At this point, EA is nothing more than a dumb placebo effect that makes you think you're bouncing more

@atomic geode Bruh go look at armor inspector.

[atomic geode]

Lmao, correct angling makes 4% to base thickness =60mm+ of armor, good argument - especially with side skirts, and a highly angled turret u gotta turn to block dmg

[burnt venture]

Running EA gives you ~5 deg more leeway on the turret, and 2 degrees more leeway on the hull. And this is against normal rounds, before we consider enemies loading gold which turns this entire point moot anyway.

That's literally milliseconds you can spend turning to the right angle for the exact same difference, and when enemies load the gold rounds it ceases to make any difference altogether.

AGAIN, more armor does not necessarily equal better. If most enemies you face can either butter you or can't scratch you, 4% more armor won't magically solve that issue outside of less than a handful of tanks you might face.

[final warren]

HoRi

Honestly insane how much pen that tank has, but it's fun

[willow elbow]

Think about e50M, it has 278mm of turret front, before putting EA, no tank besides TD can pen your turret front, but with gold everyone can, same result with EA, therefore: no diff

[burnt venture]

TBH it trades out a ton of characteristics just to have the pen so it's fine.

It doesn't have that much armor, the mobility is eh when it comes to actually moving, DPM and alpha combo isn't the best either

[final warren]

The way I see it, EA allows you to be 4% less "precise" in your angling for armored tanks (no one is perfect all the time), and also let's you bounce a shell here and there.

The HP boost is probably the better option for min max in general, but there doesn't seem to be such a huge difference that choosing one will put you at a disadvantage

@burnt venture Oh yeah, it's definitely balanced. I just meant I find it fun when I can cheese through any armor. It's an unpopular tank, so most people don't even realize how much pen it has

[atomic geode]

Yeah I tried it on E50M - didn't do any good that I could tell. Maybe after armor buff it will tho

[real bison]

EA on the E 50M is actually the difference between being a 40% chance to not be penned by MT CS HEAT in the turret front while hulldown, or being penned by MT CS HEAT in the turret front when hulldown

By next update, we can likely expect EA E50Ms to be impervious to even 340 pen HEAT in the turret front when hulldown

[willow elbow]

The e50m will be so strong next update ngl, I mean generally meds next update, are going into the meta while the fast heavies are going out of the meta

[frosty cairn]

Add concealment in movement and adaptive concealment to the 121b to make it fair. If you only add 1 concealment mechanism, reactive armor is better

[teal crystal]

I do set up in the right spots and they can't take out a 4005 that managed to "flank" a secured spot with 4 people watching it

[stone drum]

"Sorry were nerfing amx m4 mle. 54, here's pbr to make up for it"

Maybe it's just me, but Sometimes it seems pbr comes right before or after a major balance change.

[twin egret]

Unfortunately no FV215b pbr (ofc they wouldn't, dev team probably has a vendetta against tanks that got on their sour spot after a bad encounter with them in-game)

I don't think the pbr on the m4 mle 54 will do much, but it seems to me that the turret neck is way more exposed tho

if that's the case expect more shots there

[winter dagger]

You know it's better than a random tier 1 getting pbr at least 💀

[quartz snow]

Cuz all of the tier 1s have pbr now, so now they can focus on giving pbr to tanks theyre about to nerf ✨️rebalance✨️ to the ground

[atomic geode]

So do sales, 25k gold - RIGHT before it gets butchered - and WG will say "Ohh but its all pretty now, aren't you happy??"

[stone drum]

Well the sales are a tradition that's unconnected to the changes.

[winter dagger]

Real

[granite pebble]

Well... Lol um, with EA E-50M can face hug a good chunk of tanks that aren't running calibrated and literally be immune. Without EA those tanks can pen it with HEAT.

Same thing with E-100, E-100 can hulldown and not care about 340mm HEAT with EA, otherwise it gets penned

[burnt venture]

E100 with EA using max gun depression is 330mm. Still won't protect you from 340 pen HEAT. If you can shoot the enemy, they will pen you with 340 HEAT in the face regardless.

E50M without EA is already pretty resistant to mediums in general, and in a hulldown it can't be penned by mediums not using CS. In a facehug unless the tank you're facehugging has no gun depression, you'll get penned through the upper plate with AP and gold depending on the tank.

E50M after next update will probably see no need to run EA as well since it's getting another buff to the turret and side armor

[granite pebble]

On armor inspector with max GD running EA it shows full red for everything except the bar and 330mm without that's why I had said that, but uh... Yeah E-50M is going to be stupid strong

[harsh ravine]

I have a feeling they will roll out these upcoming changes live regardless of our feedback

[rapid basin]

What's stopping them? They don't really care about our opinions they arnt gonna stop or change the reworks and they don't test them.
At this rate there gonna kill the game.

[storm kiln]

Same… It doesn’t matter if something has a 1:11 like-to-dislike ratio, they don’t care and will role them out anyway.

[remote sluice]

i feel like tier 10 currently is balanced enough to be somewhat enjoyable, where almost every tank can hold up against others, but after these rebalances we can clearly see how some tanks are way worse than others. thats not what us players want. fine, yall at wg wanna revamp the gameplay of the tanks, but at least make them still be competitive. look at the 215b. what can it do now?

[slender latch]

WG: "215 still has its beast of a DPM"
Even tho the 113 exists getting another armor and mobility buff

[austere citrus]

give leopard tungsten

[storm kiln]

That is absurd 💀

[solid sequoia]

This image gives us no indication of which tank fired the round, what the round was, or what the angle was.

[storm kiln]

M103 actually has decent pen, and it’s also a full tier higher than u

[solid sequoia]

So a tier 9 heavy with the same pen as a tier 10 heavy managed to go through your tier 8 medium tank turret. This would literally happen with any tier 8 medium turret, and even some tier 8 heavy tank turrets.

[storm kiln]

Bro, you are asking for something absurd. There is no reason for a Tier VIII Medium to bounce a shell from a high-pen Tier IX Heavy. Even the Pershing can’t do that reliably.

[solid sequoia]

Again, you’re facing a gun with tier 10 levels of penetration. Any tier 8 medium turret is going to be penetrated, with maybe the Mk 5/1 or defender Mk1 having a chance of blocking damage.

It’s not nonsense lmao, the M103 has 258mm of AP as standard. That’s the gold round for most tier 8 tanks, which go through med turrets easily.

Cope harder lmao, you chose to peek a heavy tank with levels of penetration 2 tiers above your tank and you payed the price. Know how strong an enemy tank is, don’t make peeks where you know you can be penetrated, and you won’t have this issue.

[storm kiln]

How much is it exactly rn?

Edit: Oof

[clear shuttle]

it can hull down
against tanks at the same tier + tier 7s

[rigid sapphire]

Hi

[wicked quest]

Don’t bother with this guy he got banned and joined on a different account because he was trolling

No no it ain’t lol.

[lost crane]

oh no 🥲 , it's not op
the tank have good hp for med, an accurate 400 alpha gun with 7° dep, a good all round armor, but it's not enought, because the turret isn't impenetrable.

Why is it sad ? The 122 TM is already a good tank, not op, but at least good

Last time, it was sold for 8.5k, idk why wg decided to sell it for 10k this time, but i think that the tank already have a good armor, you can easilly bounce t8 med, and all t7, and you can bounce most t8 when using dep

[clear shuttle]

i mean its known to not be a recommended tank to buy sooo

[lost crane]

St. Emil have 231mm pen, and 243mm if it use calibrated shell. It's better than most of T8 standard pen (exept td), and yes, you need to angle to have a strong hull (more than 230mm) and most of med can't do that.
And the turret is mostly impenetrable, even for prammo (except td) when using gun dep, put yes, it have some weakpoint. (image is against 265 apcr, a standart prammo for ht, and better than most of mt and lt prammo. From guidesblitz), so not at weak armor, even more for a mt
edit : do you know how overmatched work ? It's not just "my pen is better than its armor thickness". Overmatch is when your armor is at least 1/3 of the gun caliber, and can't bounce even if it is more angle than the autoricochet angle

If you are in hulldown, the turret is solid, and with the good alpha, you don't need to peek often
It's what i'm saying, if you take a pen than t8 med can't achieve, even with calibrated. And even more, you show the armor profile in flat groud and without angle, you don't understand how to use the armor of this tank.
Edit : you need to peek, but least then a tank with 190 alpha for example and to deal more dmg, so you can trade more easily

[lost crane]

No, the armor isn’t the best thing in this tank, but the gun alpha, accuracy and depression are enought. And armor is really good against mt and lt

[nimble zodiac]

@spring leaf Nobody cares that your medium tank isn’t a heavy tank. Fight your own kind of tanks. Maybe you’ll get a bounce from something.

It’s not even a hulldown tank, it has two embarrassingly large cupolas, and anybody can drill straight through them. It’s just a failed heavy tank. Literally more unreliable armor and much less HP than a heavy tank. Buffing the turret isn’t the play, because the turret is inherently hard to make good, unless cupolas are made to be stupidly strong. It needs something else, like upper hull armor for brawling on flat ground, or mobility, because the tank is hilariously less nimble than a Chrysler K

It needs to pick a lane, not stretch itself thin trying to take both

Look before you buy, btw

[storm spoke]

Not sure if this was this patch or the last one but WZ-122-TM was 3rd in winrate just behind the unfathomably broken BCB and Chimera. Its a very good tank with no need for balancing, unlike the chimera which is basically a 1:1 better version 😖 and is so broken it makes my head spin

[nimble zodiac]

The skill in tier 8 nowadays 😔
Much more to wish for

[storm spoke]

Whats very shocking about the 122 however is how misplaced it is. It's a reverse engineered t62 (A TIER X TANK) with a smooth barrel and a bore evacuator, the first true chinese MBT a design past the bloody 70s. It should be a tier X tank by literally all metrics but for some unfathomable reason isnt, like the t59 being a worse t54 despite being almost 1:1 with few upgrades. Thats crazy, a t8 tank with modern technology being two tiers behind the MAUS a failed design from the 40's

[clear shuttle]

yeah it kinda got done dirty in wot and wot pc but oh well

[umbral ember]

Is there any possibility that the balance changes can be altered?

[stuck acorn]

cope harder, the fact that he hit the edge is the exact reason why he penned you. Wz-122TM has a 3 different layers of armor, the closer to cheeks it is, the stronger it is with 210 being the top value. Your turret was slightly turned into left, which greatly decreased the angle and allowed M103 to easly butter weaker layers of armor on your turret

Also side of Wz 122TM's turret is 110mm. 140 is the 2nd layer where he penned you

[stuck acorn]

No, WG already said this is final version of changes and they won't do anything with it. They will most likely adjust them 1 update after release in 10.4 as they did last year

[remote oriole]

Clearly this is just a realistic representation of historical facts, as all things in this history simulator

Or maybe not

Honestly it‘s impressive how WG managed to generate an entire tech tree for a nation that relied on foreign technology for the entirety of the relevant time period. The secret ingredient seems to be a lively imagination and using cold war tanks given stats that make them balanced

[wooden lynx]

You can't rely on the armour, specially when the tank that just shot you is a Tier 9 with T110E5 levels of penetration

The M103 has 258mm of AP pen w/ 5° of shell normalisation making your effective armour less. You saying "it's just one tier higher" does not make any sense even if thr M103 is a Tier 9 it still carries a Tier 10 gun.

[untold tundra]

pretty sure your hull is exposed to the m103 here

[storm kiln]

EXACTLY.

The entire Chinese medium line honestly boggles my mind. Aside from everything you just said —which is 100% on point btw—, the fact that the WZ-120 is Tier IX but the Type 59 is a Tier VIII premium MAKES LITERALLY NO SENSE. THE WZ-120 WAS LITERALLY THE PROTOTYPE FOR THE TYPE 59, AND YET, IT IS ONE TIER HIGHER. I can understand making the Type 59 a Tier VIII, because it’s a T-54 without the IR searchlight and Gun Stabilization. However, the WZ-120 shouldn’t be a Tier IX, anything, the Chinese Tier IX should be the Type 59-I or something, then the Tier X should be something like the Type 59-IIA, idk

It doesn’t rly matter, it just bugs me as a Cold War tank nerd 🫤

[stone moon]

Real

[grizzled geyser]

give fv183 more armor

[orchid grove]

It’s getting more armor next update #coming-soon message

[thorny timber]

Give it the maus amount of armour

[burnt venture]

Wow WG just makes up random tanks and pulls lines out of their ass? Who would've guessed. Surely they haven't been doing that for decades already.

I lowkey think "omg this tank should be this tier cuz historical reasons" shouldn't be a thing in this channel because it has nothing to do with tank balancing. Or any argument citing historical reasons. There's zero consideration of that in any part of this game besides the (vague) shape of the tanks.

If you want to complain about historical accuracy do it in #vehicles-discussion

[dense echo]

WG please buff the black marked zone.

[real bison]

ah yes add the very funny and well-liked Type 71 armour-behind-trackwheel on a tank because you dont know how to ACTUALLY angle in it

[solid sequoia]

I think it’s fine

[dense echo]

No, I don't know. That's why I asked them to buff. Happy?

[real bison]

vastly overangles in sidescraping tank
gets penned through trackwheel
decides that WG needs to buff the armour there to compensate for a lack of skill

[dense echo]

Yes it needs cause it's speciality is sidescraping. The turret is in the back. My enemy will see my drive wheel even before I look at them. Also I can't over angle it just to hide my drive wheel & I don't care if you agree or not. I only care about the devs answer

[real bison]

except i literally just showed you what it looks like to 212mm pen

just get good and stop sidescraping on the corner

[dense echo]

Stop sidescraping with a rear turret mounted tank? Okay okay I see...

[stuck acorn]

it is turned to the left, also you are literally getting shot by a T10 gun that on standard shell has morre effective penetration due to normalization than most T8 gold rounds. Just accept the fact you are playing a T8 medium, not a T10 heavy

[real bison]

where did i say that

i said dont sidescrape on the corner

sidescrape a bit away from the corner to protect your trackwheel and lower plate

i have literally shown you proof that the CK can effectively sidescrape and not be penned in the trackwheel while doing so, it is up to you if you want to understand the information presented to you and apply it in game, but seeing as youre still here, you clearly arent

stay moving instead of still

stop only to aim

do not overly rely on armour- that is a mistake a noob makes, taught to them by bots or fellow clueless players who either aim for bounces or dont aim

if you think someone is staring at you, try to bait their shot, the armour you have will be mostly enough

[stuck acorn]

if you think this turret armor is already as strong as T9/10 medium then it clearly doesn't need any more buffs 🙃

And if it's not, it's a good thing and is meant to be this way

If you think it should have as strong armor as T9/10 it's only your assumption and a wrong one to be precise

@spring leaf nobody cares about PC stats since it's completly different game. They are absolutely irrelevant here. Cope more

[ancient rampart]

M103 has pretty good pen so it’s not surprising it completely buttered through the turret

[real bison]

and thats the issue- you trusted the armour profile that you didnt know

armour should only be relied on as a last resort option

being out of the line of fire, for some reason makes you live longer

[ancient rampart]

This isn’t PC quit using it as a comparison

[stuck acorn]

What an absolute wheraboo...

WoTB never gets direct stats from PC. Same tanks might be added here as were previously on PC, but their stats are never the same. Carro 45t from blitz hardly even resembles carro from WoT PC. Yeah they both have autoreloaders but everything else is different.

It works the same way other way around. a Blitz T9 ho ri is a T10 on PC and so on and so on.

Also reserch a tank before buying. for 10k gold you could get 2 other good T8 premiums if you were patient enough and did some research before purchase. It's your own fault

If you realized this much, then accept the fact that Wz-122TM here is different from the one on PC and play it as it is suposed to be played here, not on PC.

And when it comes to your second sentece it's just straight up stupid. They don't resemble each other in STATS, not looks.

Then it's either you are using the armor wrong or you didn't research the armor well enough. Anyway, it's still your own fault so cope

[solid sequoia]

10.1 relative WR for tier 10

[stuck acorn]

You usually use 55-65% players instead of 45-55 as it's less skill biased so here is a 2nd graph

Btw i actually wouldn't expect as much as 3 medium tanks getting into Top 20 🥹

They are still at the bottom of the graph tho

[gleaming apex]

thermonucleicacid#0 has been warned.

.roundbear#0 has been warned.

thermonucleicacid#0 has been warned.

.roundbear#0 was muted.

jsqo1590#0 has been warned.

[stone drum]

Maybe I'm just bad, but carro feels kinda op.

[gleaming apex]

jsqo1590#0 was muted.

[twilit crystal]

its been op every since instant reload came in, at first it was fairly held back because as a medium it often had to give up crucial early game positions until it was reloaded. Now it gets all of taht

[drowsy plaza]

An over performing tank doesn’t need a buff

[gloomy patio]

titan having better relative wr than chimera is perplexing

[drowsy plaza]

That was without in tier WR’s factored. I suspect a lot of poor players do better in it due to getting bounces.

Because it’s a very good tank. The fact you went town in the screenshot makes me feel that you don’t really understand how to play hard turret Meds and sitting in the open on that map wasn’t very wise.

[gloomy patio]

how exactly is the turret armour bad though?

[solid sequoia]

That’s the thing, it’s not bad. At least, not if you play the tank correctly

[drowsy plaza]

I think that was his point 😉

[gloomy patio]

i highly suggest you to check out its armour profile on wotinspector when it's using full gd 🙂

[solid sequoia]

Nobody is getting through the mantlet lmao

1. Short tanks bennefit more from gun dep, not less. So in reality is feels like it has more than 7.

2. I highly doubt it was the mantlet. At its thinnest, the mantlet is 20mm spaced with 210mm raw behind, and that’s below the gun. The top of the mantlet is 120mm angled, the front is 250mm, and both have a 100mm plate behind them.

[burnt venture]

"I got penned in the turret a couple times, so I come to Official server to cry about it because how dare a medium turret not be invincible"

Can mods make a new rule that when a post reaches a certain amount of downvotes, the user gets an automatic 1 hour mute? That would be a great solution to removing these kinds of brainless discussions from happening here.

[gloomy patio]

i love how we are at a point where there are a concerning amount of players complaining about turrets not being invincible, just yesterday someone tried to bring up the argument that stb has a hatch therefore its turret is not strong!!!

really does make me wonder, what is causing the average player to think that turrets HAVE to be invincible at all times in order to be classified as strong.

[real bison]

yes the highest standard pen in tier 7 (which is tier 9 MT pen) can pen through the TM at point blank

except he's basically thrown his tank away, your job is easy, kill him.

[nimble zodiac]

They are part of the discussion ._.

The turret is strong, sorry your enemies have good aim
Also the WZ has 100mm main armor behind the gun mantlet, sorry to rain on your misinformation.

[glad cove]

Is kran #bugged. This shot from a vk 72 actually penned and did dmg

[burnt venture]

• comes to the server to complain and suggests an unnecessary buff
• gets shut down by about 5 people
• even receives advice on how to play the tank better
• continues to keep going at the same complaint anyway
• gets warned for complaining
• still keeps going

You know what's worse than bad players? Players who can't admit they got unlucky or have a skill issue and instead project those problems onto the tank, WG, enemies being lucky, RNG, etc.

[nimble zodiac]

But he literally said the shot was from a VK 72.01 K

And @glad cove the shot happened from the side, correct? The shell then went around the actual gun mantlet armor, and hit the rather thin gun mantlet side. It's not gonna save you that many times, but I'm sure that VK is pretty lucky. No reason for him to aim there.

Also battle count tends to mean nothing when literal 41%ers cruise around with 200k+ battles.

Wish I could get an accurate shot from your replay file, but wotinspector is having major issues actually displaying the shot. It would literally rather show me the victim tank spinning its turret automatically than the shot diagnostics.

The only TD thing about VK's gun is alpha, but you insisted a high pen TD would be one that made the shot

It's 229mm effective while Kran uses Enhanced Armor...

[drowsy plaza]

So when 60-70% players tell you things. Maybe take it on board.

[real bison]

"Well I'm a 48%-49%"

...

no words...

@gloomy patio its probably bot MM and WG's style of balance- bot MM leads newbies to think theyre invincible, and WG's balance half supports that, so when it isnt, they get mad and instead of trying to get good/ take advice, they blame it on something else

[nimble zodiac]

End note, then. Don't play a medium expecting a hulldown heavy. I know you seem to have consistent shots penetrating your turret, but that's a skill + luck factor from your enemy. The tank is performing well, and doesn't need a buff.
Don't let a bad day tell you what your year will be like. Take a break and hop back on the game when you're ready to play no tilt again.

[twilit crystal]

idk the 122 tm seems pointless, get the hp of a med, for the mobility of a heavy. only advantage is some camo

[real bison]

dont rely on armour, its the (sub)average player mindset

understand that armour is a last resort, expect to be penned, get surprised when you dont

hulldown is a way to reduce the area people can shoot, not necessarily a way to block damage

hulldown just needs either a strong turret or good gun depression
effective hulldown requires both

and to answer your question to ChickenMan, skilled players can easily infer how a tank is just by looking at its stats

[nimble zodiac]

Eh. Played it but wasn't a fan of the playstyle, I always had the Löwe to have fun with in tier 8

[stuck acorn]

idk if he did, but i still would rather take a word from a well orientated 60%er that doesn't have the tank, than a 48%er that has it but still can't play it and has no actuall clue on what he is talking about

Oh, i just looked up the message right above and yes, he did play it so it validates this point even more

[gleaming apex]

thermonucleicacid#0 was muted.

[outer glen]

The st emil is using prem apcr with 105mm which is 250mm base pen wz122tm gun mantlet at upper part is 120mm spaced+100mm raw armor
St emil got the gun depression to reduce the angle of the gun mantlet
There he can pen

St emil is kinda tall+hes on higher ground so yea
And the RNG on his side apparently

[wooden lynx]

"oh no the highest standard pen in tier 7 penned me in the turret with my WZ 122 TM"

the turret is good as it is, just don't rely on it too much. It's not totally impervious and not as good as a Cent 5/1.

It doesn't have the same angle, the turret is already better than most meds in Tier 8 what more could you ask?

The St. Emil was looking down on you + highest standard pen in tier 7 has the ability to butter through your turret.

[twilit crystal]

no point to the 122 tm other than camo. Has way worse standard pen, similar gun handling, actually has worse mobility too(53tp is running gear oil), giving up 500 hp for this is crazy, how is 2144 dpm good lmao on the t54d.

[harsh ravine]

The WZ 122 TM is overhyped than anything. Who would want to use that tank when the Chimera exists

[atomic geode]

I would 100% Take Chimera AND Titan 54d over WZ-122TM. Titan 54d is so underrated, good ddpm and lots of prem pen - plus armor gimmick is fun for pushes. Ofc Chimera armor is nothing like WZ-122TM, but to me, it is just an OP great tank. Titan actually has armor, almost as much as 122TM That 90mm upper plate is only true of the TOP of the upper plate, below that (even when u arent using Dynaimc) armor, it is 50mm+90 - so 140mm

[wooden lynx]

Probably because the armour isn't as good as it is on paper? It's still a solid turret and you got 2 massive cupolas on the roof, weak turret cheeks, turret becomes incredibly weak if you're not looking directly on your opponent.

Again you're a 48% player complaining about your "medium" not being impervious to anything infront of you. Obviously the turret is weak against premium and high penetration heavies/mediums.

[twilit crystal]

I don't think he's wrong that the 122 tm should have a better turret. Again this tank has a 14 power to weight ratio. Its very slow for a medium . The only that thats really medium is the camo and the hp pool

[atomic geode]

I dont see a reason to get it personally, I might pick it up for cheap in gold eventually, but 10k last time around WG is nuts. I got K-91 in a bundle for 10k - K-91 is one of my favorite tanks overall even. In some ways better than 752 - but both are amazing

[wooden lynx]

If you want realism go play a different game, blitz isn't the game for you if you're looking for realism.

Based on your arguement you're relying too much on the armour to work, like yesterday you're complaining about a M103 penning you with standard shells in the TURRET as if the M103 does NOT have a Tier 10 gun with Tier 10 LEVELS of penetration.
The tank falls apart from high pen tanks.

@twilit crystal the turret is already great and the tank actually needs some skill to do well in as it's not one of the best mediums in Tier 8. But still a solid tank.

[atomic geode]

WOT is not realistic. I been playing it since 2011 - it was not even realistic then. 9k battles on WOT PC, but it sucks so I quit.. Dude wants WZ-122TM to be a tier 10 MBT - not a tier 8 med apparently

[solid sequoia]

No, I don’t want to see the tank perform better. It already is overperforming.

[wooden lynx]

I myself perform well in the tank, I know how it plays, I know how and where to drive it and I want to see more people play it but not with players like you complaining about the tank not being good enough for your standards.

If you can't do well in a tank that is already pretty solid I'm afraid that's just a skill issue on your part. You're better off playing a Centurion mk.5/1 if you want a strong turret that is trickier to pen.

[stuck acorn]

it's not about WZ being weak, it's about 53TP being stupidly broken since it's release

I have absolutely no idea why this thing is in a state it's in and wasn't nerfed even a single time

When it was first released even during OT i already said here it was absolutely broken and will be nerfed within 3 updates from it's release, sadly i was wrong and WG just left it as it is

[atomic geode]

RAAC is the hulldown med, but I hate the low alpha of 190. Actually Defender Mk.1 might be even better on the turret - but MUCH worse on the hull. No tier 8 is impervious frontally, dude seems to want tier 10 heavy med armor, like an E50M but at tier 8. I have not played one tank that bounces every shell. Even just frontally, you can Hulldown a Skoda T56 but that hatch is still there, and the upper plate can be penned with prem at the right angles. And there are 2 spots to either side of the gun that take ~225mm of pen

[wooden lynx]

99 battles isn't a "couple times" it's one of my best performing Tier 8's I have right up there next to my Centurion 5/1.

My stats prove the tank is already solid as I have played it a lot not just a "couple of times" it's just a skill issue in your part that you can't do well in a tank that is already solid. Armour is better than most Tier 8 meds, higher alpha, and a decently fast aiming time for a 400 alpha medium.

@spring leaf not you having a lot of experience and still manage not to make the tank work💀

[atomic geode]

Question, if you don't like the tank and don't do well with it, why do you play it so much?? The turret has hatches, anything CAN pen those, but if you keep moving it is a really tough shot. Also ALL rounded turrets have a weakness right in the front. WZ-112-2 a heavy only has 198mm of turret armorr, but it does not have hatches and it is angled + round Well, I dunno what to say - play some other tanks, or pray for that buff - but it is not a weak tank overall. I mean the fact that winrate wise it is NEAR Chimera says a lot, and I always knew Titan 54d was the sleeper beast. Meds at tier 8-10 are much harder to play than at 1-7, I learned that the hard way chimera has all the armor it needs tho...

[wooden lynx]

Despite the Chimera being one of the best if not the best, the WZ 122 TM still has the ability to keep up against it. And the Chimera traded armour to gain the mobility.

[atomic geode]

It has plenty vs other mediums - but as a tank, NO ONE should buy Chimera for the armor - it takes some getting used to but that alpha is amazing.

[wooden lynx]

That just means you don't have the capabilities to use the mobility to your advantage and relies on armour too much.

Plus the Chimera is 100% better than the WZ 122 TM.

and we have these things called angles that increase the amount of effective armour and also these things called shell normalisation that decrease the amount of effective armour on angled surfaces.

[atomic geode]

I am still pissed about AMX M4 1954 nerf - it is gonna suck with 310mm HEAT pen, or 300mm - plus 30 less alpha nd no tungsten, I am so pissed I bought this tank. If it was JUST the armor nerf, I waould be annoyed, but not angry

[main tulip]

I'm late but 122 TM is pretty bad, people who are defending it are delusional. The mobility is on par with heavies, and the penetration is sorely lacking for a tank that doesn't have the mobility to flank or the accuracy to snipe weakspots

[burnt venture]

For a medium with 400 alpha, Chinese dispersion formula, while also having armor better than Type 59 along with 7 degrees gun depression, that's plenty of upsides to counter the downsides.

Stop comparing normal performing tier 8s to what are essentially tier 8.5 tanks.

[stuck acorn]

It is not bad. It's just balanced.

It's unbalanced tanks that are creating a problem.

T8 has already well over 120 tanks which is over 1/5th of all tanks in the game. It creates a lot of balancing problems, but by itself isn't a bad thing.

It's hard to balance over 100 tanks to the same performance, but not undoable if we allow some tanks to be slightly weaker than others and compensate it with some uniquee features for them.

True problems begins tho if you allow some even a small number of tanks to be significantly stronger than others which is a case we have. It creates a huge problem since nobody even cares about balanced tanks anymore. If most tanks are balanced and only some are weaker, it is fine, people won't play those weaker tanks as much, but balanced tanks will be considered what they are - balanced.

When we have a couple of tanks clearly standing out tho, everybody focuses their attention on them. It creates a weird situation where hundreds of balanced tanks start to be compared to the few top ones and called weak, since in fact they are weak in comparasant to them. This creates a weird spiral of events that leads to players receiving everything that is not overpowered as underpowered.

And even worse that most of the time this bunch of stronger tanks are premiums. Even if WG stops adding more unbalanced vehicles, these few will stay at the top continuing the problem.

This is the most important reason why not nerfing premiums policy is very toxic for the game and should be abandoned as soon as possible. (And btw i say it as a person who owns around the half of T8 prems and spent significant amount of money on them)

The best way to balance out the game is to not create overpowered tanks and nerf the ones existing asap. Underpowered tanks don't matter as much, you can always buff them later on anyway. Its the strongest vehicles that create problems

[main tulip]

A tank that is straight up just an inferior heavy is not balanced. You want a tank that has some upsides, a normal med, like the Pershing, can do it for you. 122 TM should receive better mobility, so that it can actually be a proper heavium. You really can't compare it to other meds, because it doesn't have the mobility to do anything remotely similar to what other meds can accomplish

[stuck acorn]

If other heavies weren't so mobile and blantly overpowered, WZ-122TM wouldn't be an inferior heavy anymore.

Do you think WZ-122TM would be inferior to something like IS-5 or WZ-110 if they didn't have a 500HP advantage? It is inferior to things like 53TP, T54E2, T26E5 and stuff like that.

Again, it's Overpowered tanks that make it look weak, not the balanced ones.

Nerfs are always better than buffs, since they allow you to balance the game from top tiers to bottom ones, not the other way around. Balancing a whole tier changes it's interactions with other tiers, but since T10 has nothing above it, nerfing tanks at this tier won't make them inferior to tier above, because it doesn't exist. This way you can way easier balance out higher tiers of the game one by one, without completly messing up low tiers yet again

[past vale]

Why aren't they buffing the M4/FL10 standard pen, which is lower than lights of the same tier XD you need prammo to pen THE SIDES of KV4/5s lmao

[main tulip]

Even if you remove the HP advantage from the heavies, it is still a case of failed balancing because it just isn't unique at all lmao.

Like I said, the tank needs to be more mobile, so that it doesn't feel like a Russian heavy clone. The differences in the gun aren't noticeable enough either - the PC formula for the tank would likely make it more interesting

[stuck acorn]

It is not very unique, i can agree, but it's borderline impossible to make every tank unique at a tier where you have 120 different tanks. It is good enough to work and has a good interactions with both T7 and 9 vehicles of similar power. It is in a good spot, it's other tanks that need adjustment.

@spring leaf i'm not going to bother explaining a 48%er that knows nothing about the game and implicates that shorter tanks benefit from gun depression less (it's the other way around btw) why he is wrong. Go educate yourself better and come back again

[main tulip]

I see plenty of room to buff the mobility and nerf the hull armor, while also changing the gun characteristics so that it has better penetration but worse DPM. Could even make it a 380 alpha, as it is a 120mm, and not a 122. All of such changes would reflect its historical stats/appearance

[keen dew]

m4fl10 is already amazing enough, low pen balences it forever firing gun

[wicked quest]

He’s a troll stop feeding him he did this on his old acc he got banned for a few years ago

[stuck acorn]

While these changes do not seem unreasonable, i just don't see any point in them. What i would do first is nerf the most overpowered tanks which surprise surprise are mostly heavies which are a direct competition to Wz and then see how it performs in new meta.

If it would still be too weak, then sure it could be buffed, but for the moment i don't think it needs anything

@wicked quest ah good to know, i was wondering why he is so stubborn with such a blantly stupid claims

[solid sequoia]

No. The 122TM is already overperforming.

[past vale]

4th worst perfoming tier 7 premium med, bottom 20% among all premiums of tier 7. A slight pen buff won't break it, it will just be a quality of life buff to leave it on par with lights (which have bad standard pen anyways), the tank already has paper armor, terrible gun depression and power to weight comparable to heavies to keep the gun balanced.

[upbeat sphinx]

why the obj 752 has 01: 01:017 for gun dispersion factos? ithey should be nerfed to 0.2:0.2:02. at least

[solid sequoia]

It’s .1/.1/.17

[winged barn]

Lol. Its just a worse soviet style t8 heavy.

[solid sequoia]

🤷‍♂️

[mortal falcon]

idk that looks like it's more or less balanced to me.

[nimble zodiac]

More comparable to IS-5 than T-34-3 🪦

[twin egret]

Holy crap drop the 122M argument already, it's already gotten stale and unfun to watch over. Don't bother arguing it with them

[verbal igloo]

When we are already talking about tier 8 med buffs give the type 59 a little dpm and pen buff

[nimble zodiac]

Okay

Good job WG with mle. 54’s balance change 😉

[stone drum]

Honestly if they fixed the gun model, added escape hatches to the hull, and Buffed the upperplate I wouldn't have been bothered by the changes it's getting.

@nimble zodiac still though, look at that upperplate, it's a massive slab of steel, at the very least it should be resistant to 350 heat on flat ground.

[nimble zodiac]

I mean, with full GD, EA, and an AP shell against you, you’re 384mm strong. I’m actually curious how hard the upper plate will be nerfed. Maybe TDs will actually counter it 🤔

It's 345mm/359mm on flat ground :p
Though, that's pre-10.3, so you have the point

What do you mean by interclip? The reload time for all shells? I figured interclip was the 4.0s, and intraclip would be the time between any volley of shells fired automatically, like a Leopard.

[stone drum]

.2/.2/.2 is insanely trash handling, They should just nerf the interclip & intraclip.

@nimble zodiac interclip is time for whole magazine to reload, intraclip is time for shells within the magazine to reload.

They could just be nerfed to 19/4.25 respectively and the tank would be fine.

[winged barn]

Not is5, its just a straight up worse 112 2

[keen dew]

wz112 2 best t8 122mm soviet/Chinese heavy

[plain dew]

It already has one of the worst base dispersion values for a tier 9 heavy. Great dispersion on the move is a necessary redeeming factor otherwise the tank would just be average at best

[solid sequoia]

The tank is literally broken right now lol, it could use nerfs in a few places, not just otm factors

[stone drum]

Honestly while IS-5 doesn't deserve to be an insane tank, if the just Buffed the terrain resistance along with the apcr velocity & heat pen it would be a fine tank

@spring leaf it's not about fixing the problems, it's about giving it something so you have a reason to play it.

[drowsy plaza]

The problem is you don’t understand game mechanics, and are trying to play tanks in roles and positions not suited for them.

The idea of buffing heavy tanks is flat out ridiculous, and anyone who supports it is just catering to the window licking crowd.

@spring leaf if you had a clue about them you would Not be a sub 50% player struggling in an over performing tank.

@spring leaf did you miss where I posted it’s 10.1 results?

[solid sequoia]

“Not overperforming”

[drowsy plaza]

Anyway the WZ-122 TM discussion is closed. Let’s get back to discussing tier X.

[solid sequoia]

It is quite literally winning more than average… as in it is performing better than the average medium tank of the tier… which makes it overperforming…

You’re right, it shot just meds you’re fighting. Even still, in terms of tier 8 premiums, the 122TM is in the top 10. If that isn’t overperforming, might as well give the borasque a buff.

The 122 TM has over 10k different players and over 100k battles in this data set. That is more than enough to offset the “teams skew WR” argument. Just face the fact that you perform poorly in the tank in spite of it being good, and learn to play the game better.

And again, it is above the average tank, meaning that yes, it is indeed overperforming. If being at 6th place isn’t overperforming, then the T54E2 is a balanced tank. But it’s not, clearly.

Mastery badges happen to everyone, even 40%ers. The fact that you’ve stated you have 1k battles in the tank but only 3-4 mastery badges is telling, but I won’t digress too much into that. If teams were such an issue, everyone would have around the same winrate. But you have 30%ers and 70%ers across all servers. Why? Because teams don’t matter as much as your own personal skill. A better player will have more impact on the game, deal more damage, and win more often, even with the same teams as a 40%er. Teams are not an excuse to play poorly, they rarely have an impact on your winrate as a whole. And again, this is the 122TM’s winrate over nearly 150k battles. Do you know the law of large numbers? Because that is taking effect here.

[acoustic estuary]

He said he got 3-4 ace in 3 days. Doubt he did 1k game in 3 days don’t you?

[solid sequoia]

It’s obvious that your game knowledge is lacking, and this conversation will just keep going in circles because you do not know enough to realize that you are wrong. If you are just going to keep saying the same points over and over even after they have been clearly disproven with statistics, then there is no helping you get better.

[hardy bronze]

Here's the thing with teams, everyone on the server has to deal with the same players

This means any tank deals with those teams, and so does every player. A 50% player can very easily have a streak of multiple wins, but due to probability, they will have a similar amount of losses. That's just how it works

As for the tanks, since every tank is exposed to that same player base, it gets equal treatment. If a tank is vastly popular or unpopular, or is doing very well or poorly stats-wise, it's primarily a reflection on the tank and potentially the meta as well

Also #6 for a T8 meds out of many, many tier 8 meds and even more T8s in general is very strong. It's not #6 out of 10 or even 20 tanks, but dozens and dozens. Saying that it's struggling is like saying someone who graduated #7 in their class of ~200 is struggling as a student

[solid sequoia]

Buddy, this is one of my favorite tanks in the game lmao. And 6/50 or however many premium tier 8s there are is pretty high up on the list, isn’t it? Do you know what overperforming means? You clearly don’t, otherwise we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Overperforming means the tank is performing above average. This means that it is better than the majority of tanks at the same tier. Do you know what is better than the majority of tier 8 tanks? The 122TM. Revisiting the definition of overperforming, we can clearly see that the 122TM is overperforming. Did I put it simply enough for you?

[acoustic estuary]

That’s some low wr for this wz yall talking

[solid sequoia]

I’ve shown you that it’s overperforming against meds. 3 times. And you said that you wouldn’t face just meds, so I went to all premium tanks. And it still is overperforming. Here’s all of the charts again. Maybe you should try actually reading them, and understanding what they say.

1% over hundreds of thousands of battles is massive. It’s not “a small percent”. It’s pretty big when you’re dealing with numbers this big.

[hardy bronze]

Ima go on a limb here (full disclosure I've never played the 122TM but wouldn't mind trying it)

The majority of the turret can bounce standard round from T8 mediums, the primary opponent as you're in a medium as well. The only exception are the hatches and if a medium loads premium, the cheeks. From that, it seems like a vehicle that can't just sit on a hill and fire away, and that's not necessarily a bad thing

I suspect if you keep moving back and forth and wiggling the hull and turret, it'd probably get some more bounces

[solid sequoia]

People got lucky for hundreds of thousands of battles? Okay dude, whatever you say. You’re obviously a master of statistics.

Buddy, you are literally trying to argue that statistics is wrong. You are arguing that numbers are wrong.

Yes, everyone who played the tank. Aka people of all skill levels. And the tank still manages an above average wr. Odd, isn’t it.

[acoustic estuary]

People who played wz today are meh.

[winged barn]

Mediums are for the most part just bad. The only reason the 122tm does better than a lot of meds is because it is practically an extra heavy for the team, even if it outclassed by actual heavies.

[main tulip]

^^ WZ "overperforms" because it is closer to a regular heavy, which the average player can play better than a normal med.

But the fact is, 122 TM is a worse version of actual heavies, and not only the overcooked ones, but the average ones like IS-5 as well.

The problem with the tank ultimately is the lack of mobility. If heavy mobility was 0 and medium mobility was 10, then the 112 TM should be around 5 or 6, but it currently sits around a 1.

[final warren]

Dude, you can't just blame everything on luck. With that logic, literally any argument you propose, I can say "You're wrong because of [insert undefinable measurement]" and be right.

Once you have thousands upon thousands of battle, you have accurate statistics. It is no longer luck based. If you aren't able to see/understand this then there is no point in anyone continuing this debate

[maiden ridge]

I Calculated the DPM for batchat in 10.3
The stock gun will have 2921 DPM without any equipment, provisions or the intra-clip reload consumable and will have ~3251 DPM with equipment, provisions and the intra-clip reload consumable.
The researchable gun will have ~2846 DPM without any equipment, provisions or the inter-clip reload consumable and will have ~3147 DPM with equipment, provisions and the intra-clip reload consumable.

The stock gun will unload all 4 shells in 7.5 seconds without the inta-clip reload consumable, with the intra-clip reload consumable, it’ll be 5.25 seconds
The top gun remains the same in terms of time to unload the full clip

[final warren]

You're right if you are talking about a small number of battles. When you have thousands of battles, the teams average out.

This is why unicums have such high winrates. They might have a bad losing streak for a hundred battles, but in the long run, they are able to consistently use their skill to win battles. They don't get any different teams than you do, the only different factor is their skill.

Why do you think that people are getting different teams?

Also, 1% is a big number. You know how many battles at 65+% winrate it takes for me to move 1%? Probably thousands.

Until you can figure out why 1. Large sets of data is in fact reliable and not based on teams and 2. Small numbers are more important than you realize, then there is no point in continuing this.

I'm not sure if you're still in school or not, but if you are id recommend taking a statistics class. If you aren't, then I'd recommend watching some Khan academy videos on statistics. They have some good resources

If you are getting destroyed then that is your fault and yours alone. Not the tanks, not the team, only you.

If you're getting destroyed then that means you're too aggressive. You need to back off a bit and take in the situation.

If you have a high winrate and you die a lot, then imo that means either you make effective plays consistently, or the tank is simply over performing. Either way, just imagine how much more you could win if you conserved your hp more

Anywho, I'm out. Nice talk, and I hope you caught what I'm throwin

[nimble zodiac]

Fight not heavy tanks
For TDs I hope you've already given up blocking their shots

[clear shuttle]

then again some people just get lucky days, + toons dont always mean good teams and such

[wooden lynx]

Bro got smacked with pure facts and statistics that the WZ 122 TM is over performing compared to other Tier 8 meds and Prems and still won't accept the fact that he got proven wrong.

Honestly guys I think it's best to just ignore this guy, he's like a brick wall that doesn't know what english is

[gleaming apex]

thermonucleicacid#0 was banned.

[drowsy plaza]

Continued discussion of the WZ-122 TM is just going to result in a ban at this point. When you continue to beat a dead horse for over a day despite being shown the perform and stats and multiple players trying to explain why — the only reason to continue is trolling, or rectal cranial inversion.

[storm spoke]

Dang that made him leave the discord alltogether. What do y'all fear and hope about the upcoming european line changes?

[stuck acorn]

bruh it seems like our Mod left the server all together 😂

[grizzled geyser]

hey could u make it so the missle sells for more then 10 gold it makes no sence

[nimble zodiac]

It's almost like the point of the tank is to be exclusive to game modes and not be a gold prize. Also where balance? Also Also where Crusader? D:

[wooden lynx]

Gone, went somewhere ...far away

[stuck acorn]

https://tenor.com/view/we-got-him-ladies-and-gentlemen-em-gif-15781907

[final warren]

After looking at the CS-63 stats in tank compare... The tank looks pretty trash. Maybe it's just me?

[scenic olive]

The speed boost is supposed to make it special but the 121b has that too💀, if u compare the 2 tanks the 121b is just better in most regards.

[clear shuttle]

its turret got buffed, idk if blitzstars shows the updated armour + the tank has tungsten
but even then yeah it looks kinda mid,

[final warren]

Are you talking about a mechanic or a consumable? I thought it wasn't supposed to have a mechanic, and if they are giving it a consumable to balance it then that's not gonna work lol

[scenic olive]

Ya there giving it a speed boost consumable 💀 and like showpcs said it’s getting tungsten and better armour but still not enough

[sage tangle]

They nerfed every tier 10.

[nimble zodiac]

They did not. lol.

[devout coral]

Yeah it wasn’t good :/

[burnt venture]

Mad games in general is an awful gamemode nowadays. You play mad games because of the memes, because the strengths and weaknesses of tanks are completely flipped which resulted in a new playstyle.

IMO the rammers, especially the engine boost rammers, were a great implementation of what the spirit of mad games should be. Close range brawls, 2 minute games, etc. But instead of giving people the ability to counter rammers by stopping the tanks or mitigating damage in some way, they just nerfed them into oblivion.

50M dash on mediums is also utterly useless except for people who want to do climbs which don't add anything to the game and sometimes lengthen the game.

So now we've just gone back to basically randoms with damage boosts and DPM boosts for heavy tanks. That's not fun at all because there's zero deviation from normal games

[hexed spindle]

I still dont know why they neft amx mle 54 bruh

[proud plover]

Bruh, dude was trolling from the beninging you kept feeding it so much it made a Mod leave lmao

[honest knot]

or he got asked to leave because or his vocab ?

[fast palm]

STA needs more alpha desperately, possibly give it similar gun to lansen?

[thorny timber]

STA is arguably one of the best t8 medium,the alpha is ok for a generic t18 med

[low forge]

Please please please... Conqueror and Caernarvon need bufff !! please please im fed UP

[orchid grove]

?? They’re arguably the best heavies in their tier

[main tulip]

Conqueror and Caernarvon are goated

[thorny timber]

"conqueror and caernarvron seem ok for their tier,so we decided to ruin the 215b"

[low forge]

im stock conqueror.. t8 eat me . 1vs1 is3 for exemple i loose. imagine playing wit t10.. 6s reloading for 200 damage and no Armor i dont call This a t9. tiger 1 better stat

[winged barn]

Ah yes, stock tank is stock

Also, why in the hell do some stock tanks have to be so bad

[nimble zodiac]

Me when the stock tank specifically designed to be bad is bad

[dense prairie]

😱

[stuck acorn]

It's good when stock tanks are bad, but imho they should be at least playable. A fully stock tank of certaain tier should be as effective as average tanks of a tier lower.

Sadly some of them are wayyyy worse than that

[nimble zodiac]

I mean, maybe if the Caernarvon wasn't so busted, stock Conqueror might not whip the player back so far.

[orchid grove]

Stock Conq isn’t too bad, since it’s at the very least basically the exact same tank you just got out of. A lot of stock tier IXs are a lot worse than their maxed tier 8 counterparts

[twilit crystal]

Stock Skoda t50 has worse pen than the vtu lmao for the same alpha

[thorny timber]

That's just my dementia kicking in,jokes apart the STA alpha isn't too low to just be exact that just feels like it because of the t8 heavy standards which are exaggerated,or that you find a chimera every 3rd battle and it's not the tank's fault,the tier is just weirdly unbalanced like that

[twin egret]

How would deflecting ramming damage work? Instead of taking a certain amount of damage yourself, it's instead 0 with the enemy taking the damage you would've taken?

[sage tangle]

Ahem, panther ii

[austere citrus]

upper plate though 135mm at tier 9 kinda bad ngl. i mean caernarvon x has 130mm. i would say 140mm upper plate +5mm to conq, and then +10mm to 215b

[bold dagger]

considering that WG is planning to nerf the FV215b's upper plate in 10.3 and that they've said they plan to change the Tier 6-9 tech tree vehicles to match their Tier 10 counterparts at some point...I wouldn't get your hopes up for that one

honestly i think the British heavy line can survive without hull armor, but they need to have even better firepower and mobility

[austere citrus]

tbh i understand why, imo maybe just a mobility buff in exchange for less armor and yeah a bit more fire power

a heavium that can block most standard rounds (not pramo) would be fun

[thorny timber]

Panther 2 is good,you can compare it with the STA but it still doesn't best chimera overall

[quick lichen]

This isn’t even wrong

[austere citrus]

honestly i think they nerfing 215b because a good 215b player can make the 215b super super strong in a hull down position basically impennable unless you have super high pen.

overall the tank is decent, pretty good, not as good as some other hull down heavies though imo

[quick lichen]

You can’t balance tanks around 70%ers stats because they make every tank look good

Then new or worse players get ahold of that tank and they’re awful in it and complain

The 215b isn’t supposed to be easy to play for the average player

[burnt venture]

The thing is though good players never even asked for these changes, and other heavy tanks will just be way more influential anyway.

Resulting in dead tanks that you almost never see in MM. Those are your Patton, 140, VZ. 55, 215B, and the entire Chinese tech tree.

You can make skill-based tanks but WG doesn't even understand how to do that in a way that actually attracts good players to them. Meanwhile heavy tanks are the best choice for battle influence for all players alike, so...

There's almost no incentive to play the less popular tanks unless you enjoy being the underdog. That's it. If you are not ready and queue up in one of those things and try to play them head to head against meta tanks you'll be eaten alive even by worse players.

[mental haven]

Update 10.1.5 - CS-63's buffed armor

[burnt venture]

*Can barely tell any difference even though this is tier 8 standard pen

[austere citrus]

honestly, t30/t34, tanks with that big turret should get a turret buff. super easy to go through the cheeks even with regular ammo these days

[austere citrus]

wz 113gft, wz 113, and wz 121 are very strong imo, wz 132 is a bit underpowered tbh

obj140 honestly? just give it +10 alpha to 320 tbh. maybe add 8mm to the upper plate and turret imo, thats about it imo

[fringe quest]

So it has strong upper plate but with weak turret, I don’t get WGs sense in this

[final warren]

I'd rather lose the armor and get semi decent mobility

[twin egret]

^^^
Dumb improved speed boost consumable gimmick bebrbrrr muttering sounds
They should have put in the effort of giving them an actual feature like the CS line has on WoT PC.

[orchid grove]

The PC “mechanic” isn’t really all that different from super speed boost consumable anyway

[graceful elk]

So does the CS-63 have some sort of special stat like the VZ or is it normal? Or has in not been announced yet?

[twin egret]

Except it's for 15 or 20 seconds @orchid grove

[quick lichen]

That’s what the 215b ——> Chieftain is supposed to be

[austere citrus]

ngl imo the chieftain should get a buff to the part where the upper plate meets the lower glacis, not major but would definitely help its hull down capabilities

[slender latch]

Just the turret buff or rework would be fine on it

[twin egret]

What's the point of the fv215b in 10.3 when the e6 does almost everything better?

[burnt venture]

It's for that one day where you decide E6 is too overpowered and want to handicap yourself with a rear turreted version that doesn't have mobility or gun depression

[ripe python]

Have you considered the prog or the chimera? Even the wz line ain’t bad.

[rocky briar]

2 extra km on the top speed is super helpful, I think they should have just cut the mega speed and made it a quick tank in general at 40

[twin egret]

It's not really helpful. It's the same top speed as the S conq. Reverse speed should have been buffed instead

[eager mantle]

the only thing the 183 has going for it as alpha while ap damage up is nice reducing hesh damage is gonna destroy the purpose of the tank

[austere citrus]

it has tungsten

also please give leopard 1 either tungsten or sandbags

[twin egret]

Not really, since it has that 230+ of hesh pen with Cali

[ancient rampart]

You only lost 90 points of damage from the HESH you still have 1210 alpha with it

[austere citrus]

isnt the regular HE (which still has like 110-120mm of pen) or smth like that have like 1420 dmg now

[stone drum]

E6? Overpowered? It's only getting 3.3k dpm and combat stabilization while retained 340 heat and the best heavy tank mobility in the game. Plus it has a barely workable 10° of gun depression and horrendous .326 dispersion coupled .18/.18/.08 handling and heavy tank hp. How could that possibly be op? It's clearly, desperately in need of another buff.

[granite pebble]

E6 might actually end up with better EHP/t than the Kpz funnily enough

[austere citrus]

give wz 121 +1 degree of gun depression

[rapid basin]

The tanks model can't have more it's limited by the hull and it already has 6 degrees of depression

[austere citrus]

let leo 1 keep 9 degrees gun depression

[rapid basin]

Leo is already getting 4k dpm and more view range it doesn't need sand or tungsten. Also its only losing 1 degree it's getting 4k dpm it's a balancing factor

[austere citrus]

dpm doesnt mean its good, obj 263 has 3.9k dpm and 460 alpha and tons of armor yet the tanks is poopoo

[orchid grove]

Well, E6 is a med on other platforms, so, technically we have an overpowered med 😎

[violet island]

a bus isn't all that different from a car either

[past vale]

That tank is the definition of skill issue, it cannot get more buffs in anything but the gun.

[austere citrus]

the 4 degrees of gun depression make it so bad

[nimble zodiac]

Giving it gun depression wouldn’t really help

[past vale]

I know but it is even getting side armor buffs, it would become a stronger Badger if it got any gun depression, the game needs to nerf strong tanks, buffing everything leads to powercreep

[austere citrus]

just buff the lower plate too

also it cant get any gun depression since its not physically possible

it should be like a faster obj 268v4 with lower alpha but higher speed

also badger super strong rn

honestlky just buff 263 speed

[rapid basin]

Dpm is good and 263 has no armor 320 heat pens mantlet and cheeks

[acoustic estuary]

Heat. Mantlet.

[austere citrus]

buff 263 lmao

[willow wraith]

When are they gonna buff the fcm 50 t, probably the worst medium tank in the whole game

[acoustic estuary]

Say that to cromwell b depression.

[austere citrus]

true ngl, its so big

[willow wraith]

its heavy, but why?
why is the tank so heavy if its armor is so bad and why is the gun balanced so badly considering its a caliber 90 like other better 90 calibers

[final warren]

You know, why is the VK 72's side armor getting buffed? It's side armor isn't the problem, it's the massive lower plate that 80% of tier X can pen

[acoustic estuary]

Because it’s heavy? 😂

[willow wraith]

There has to be a reason to why its heavy, since this game is about tanks combat capabilities, the high weight has to be balanced out with a big gun or/and armor

meanwhile it has one of the worst alphas at tier 8

[winter dagger]

You forgot that it also gets improved suspension, making it have like 35+ traverse maybe (I am most likely off but whatever) so it's gonna probably be a more noob friendly e100 since no need to angle

[wicked quest]

It’s gigantic and long that’s where it’s weight comes from

[acoustic estuary]

Maybe because of the massive engine. 😂

[willow wraith]

okay but why isnt there literally any benefit added according to this, if a tank is THAT big and has a 1100 HP engine, it should have GREAT terrain resistance and crossing capabilities, while its literally below average on that

[final warren]

I'm not sure what your talking about, but I just meant that if you switch to prammo the entire tank is green. The side buff won't help that

[acoustic estuary]

1000hp*

[willow wraith]

1100hp*,

also, the maybach hl 230 engine dry weighs 1.2 tons, and if the fcm 50t has 295 one, lets say it weighs 1.6 tons max

so no, the engine inst a problem in the weight

[acoustic estuary]

Interesting, armor inspector says 1000

[austere citrus]

nah the side armor is a big issue

vk 90.01k has a weak lower plate

[final warren]

You aren't supposed to show the side armor in the vk72. You are supposed to poke the nose out and hide the tumors on the side. So buffing the side armor won't do anything for it's play style

[willow wraith]

oh its actually 1150, just checked ingame

both armor inspector and blitz compare are incorrect

Im pretty certain its 1100,maybe the equipment gave it 50 more but Im not sure how shown stats are calculated in info

[acoustic estuary]

Do you have equipment on it? 🤔

Do you have fuel on it or the equipment of engine on it?

[winter dagger]

I'm talking about the fact that you don't have to over complicate things by angling everything, I mean it's like the ultimate holding a corner tank, and with the scale of the armor buff it may have a chance to finally side scrape (hope not because I like the niche play style) and suspension will allow it to wiggle

[ripe python]

My hopes for EU changes:Kran gets slight traverse buff, TVP gets longer inter-clip (3.5 sec) and adds the inter clip consumable, and mino gets better turret armor and worse lower plate armor. Also, I don’t think all of t10 needs a rebalance. Just a few op tanks. haparal_, I don’t think they need it. They are both fairly balanced.

[past vale]

It is huge, some early French interwar tanks were super heavy, but T-34s had better armor. Being huge means you spread the armor through a bigger chasis. Well armored tanks don't have to weight so much, they just need armor where it matters.

[acoustic estuary]

TNH? Prog?

[final warren]

Ah ok I gotcha. But it's only a good corner tank if the enemy doesn't fire prammo. As soon as they use prammo, your hull is cheese

[willow wraith]

the armor is lacking everywhere, theres no need for such big dimentions except if it holds a heavy canon or a turret which cant be supported by a smaller hull which isnt the case because its a puny 90 caliber with an average sized turret for its size

the tank is literally perfect for tier 7

[winter dagger]

That's why I run EA sometimes and other times hulldown cause the turrent currently is a hard pen (possible but need skillz)

[willow wraith]

also when is physics a thing when you have B-C 25t shooting a 105 autoloader on the move, or Tiger I being heavily buffed for the wehraboos so they dont deinstall if they lose

the tank being huge is I guess its niche, but wg should at least put in the effort to balance it properly

[main tulip]

Superpershing is way worse than FCM

[acoustic estuary]

Tiger 1 is buffed to fit tier 7.
If you want the ( realistic tiger 1 ) play tiger 131

[willow wraith]

FCM is almost as bad as super pershing if you look at how both are balanced by comparing strictly the 2

Super Pershing has 230-300 armor on the front hull, 220~ on the gun mantlet which covers 70% of the turrets front, on top of being completely HE, HEAT, and HESH proof frontally

it has an awful p2w for some reason tho so it does win the spot, but I forgot it cuz I dont remember ever seeing it

@acoustic estuary I dont care about playing the Tiger I, just saying that the game doesnt hold to realism half of the time and can afford to buff FCM 50t so it isnt a tank everyone considers a literal cardboard box

[rapid basin]

How? Tiger 1 sucks tbh tiger p is way better it's faster shorter reload and more armor

[acoustic estuary]

It doesn’t ( suck ) but yes i prefer tiger p over tiger 1. Even better i prefer vk45.03.

[plain wagon]

Tiger 1 is a heavium while Tiger P is a heavy

[rapid basin]

Armor for tiger 1 doesn't exist and for tiger p is alot better. They have the same gun and tiger 1 is slower.
And tiger p has tungsten, sandbag, gunpouder

[stone drum]

It'd heavy because it's massive.

[acoustic estuary]

So it sucks because it doesn’t have armor. Weird judgement.

[stone drum]

The motor configuration weights 2.5 tonnes with oil, or roughly 2.1 tonnes dry.

[rapid basin]

Armor for tiger 1 doesn't exist and for tiger p is alot better. They have the same gun and tiger 1 is slower.
And tiger p has tungsten,sandbag, gunpouder

[acoustic estuary]

Same engine as tiger 2 right?

[chilly token]

Tiger 1 is just a fat medium tank. Play like a medium tank and constantly angle your armor will hellp

[acoustic estuary]

The thing is tiger p has a massive cupola which unable it to hulldown.

Hence why i prefer vk 45. Good turret, good hull and good mobility

[rapid basin]

That's a t8 not t7

[willow wraith]

It was planned to be massive, but why?

Massiveness can give benefit, but wotb didnt add any benefits caused by big size except good ram

[stone drum]

No
@willow wraith I'll explain in #off-topic-discussion

[stone drum]

Their is no inter-clip consumable btw, unless you are referring to intra-clip and in turn if thats what your referring too, a 3.5s intra-clip on the TVP is absolutely ridiculous. I would say that would be borderline unplayable in its current state.

[atomic geode]

I am still just pissed at the AMX changes, if it was JUST armor - I would not care that much. The upper plate is super strong, nerf it by 10-20mm at most. But the gun is getting gutted, no tungsten and 30 less alpha AND HEAT to take the place of premium AP. This is just f-ing stupid on every level

[granite pebble]

Not only that but it's just sitting at 2600dpm as well so it's not even gaining that much in the gun aspect for all that it lost

[main tulip]

Tiger 1 is slower

That's where you're just flat out wrong.

[rapid basin]

😂wrong version tiger p has 770hp and tiger 1 has 780

[main tulip]

Nope, what it shows is correct, clearly it's you who has the wrong info.

Also while they might have the same gun, Tiger I has slightly better dispersion on the move and an extra degree of gun depression.

[fringe quest]

I got the carro for 3 crates first time my luck is ever good, but is this a sign it’s getting nerfed

[rapid basin]

Yea ur completely wrong

[harsh ravine]

Exactly. With these AMX changes, who would even want to play the AMX M4 when the E5 or Super Conqueror exists.

Losing all of it’s special properties just for a 100-200~ DPM increase, its a joke what these balance changes are.

[stone drum]

You literally disproved yourself, Tiger P is outright slower than tiger 1 while also have inferior armour

[granite pebble]

I mean it's turret armor is still gonna be OP, and the mobility is getting better, but the fact that they didn't give it better gun handling and a tad bit more DPM is... Interesting

[burnt venture]

What's funny is this MLE is going to feel like a nerf until you play against it in a med or light... see how your medium tank holds up to a 2.8k HP heavy that's going to having almost 50B mobility

[stone drum]

Lol "50b mobility" that's going to take some absolutely massive mobility buffs to even get it close to 50b, especially with its current horrendous traverse + terrain resistances.

[burnt venture]

Currently it's a 2 hp/wt difference and 1 deg of traverse difference. With a buff to both engine power and terrain resistances, that gap is going to get smaller or even disappear. It will basically accelerate just like a 50B, and it already reverses at 20kph. The only difference is that this tank doens't go 50kph and has 2800 HP.

[main tulip]

770 for the Tiger P with provisions/equipment vs 780 for the Tiger I base, lol

@rapid basin yes? Are you blind?

[rapid basin]

No?

[honest knot]

Your Tiger P is bought and equiped.
You're showing the values for the Tiger 1 in the tech tree but because it is not in your garage it is NOT equiped.

So you're comparing an equiped tank with an unequiped one.

Tiger 1 is faster.

[stone drum]

Unless it's getting over 4° of traverse & an extra 2 effective hp/t it won't be in that range still.

Also fully equipped 50b has 35.75° of traverse and mle has 32.3°. Not to mention Mle's crap terrain resistances which are probably only getting Buffed on hard terrain

Regardless though I hope you're right, but even with that it will definitely dissappear from comp line-ups.

[rapid basin]

No provisions use ur eyes and oops forgot to remove the 50hp increase so what big deal ots 720 vs 780 still pretty close

[main tulip]

You clearly have gear oil on, which is a 6% increase to engine power. Use YOUR eyes lmfao

And it's not about how close it is. You stated outright that Tiger P is faster than Tiger I, which is blatantly false.

Nvm I'm trolling that's gunpowder, but my point still stands.

[rapid basin]

Fine fair enough you win in terms of speed

[main tulip]

Okay but why are you using gunpowder anyway...

[rapid basin]

Idek

[stone drum]

He's role-playing as an Anti-Aircraft defense Emplacement.

[burnt venture]

Nobody wants premium tanks in comp lineups. TBH nobody wants premium tanks being meta either

[stone drum]

No reason to murder unique things about a vehicle for no real reason.
It would have been better to just remove the hp + sandbags.

[past vale]

FCM 50t, STG, IS-2Sh and Lorraine 40t on the same auction? Bro that looks more like a WG's garage sale selling tanks that people dont buy at all lmao.

[dense ruin]

🥳🥳🥳 we have reached 3k dislikes on the Grille, truly a testament to how amazing these changes are

[hollow acorn]

WG needs to learn that people don’t want these changes @dense ruin

[austere citrus]

how does the grille not have like 3.8k dpm already

any other tank that has no armor like the grille like obj 263 has 4k dpm or leo 1 or

[halcyon matrix]

You're comparing 263 with the grille and leopard? What?

[austere citrus]

the grille is so bad lmao, the camo is so bad, the speed is pretty bad (mostly reverse), sacrafices so much for what? armor?

imo even 263 is better since it has decent armor

[willow elbow]

It has gun, just like the 183

[waxen osprey]

268 and hori will literally be better than the grille in almost every way except a bit of acceleration next update. They already have similar speeds, way better armor on the 268 and hori, and a slightly worse gun on both.

268 will get a flat out buff with its gun for alpha, dpm, accuracy and gun handling. Sure it gets an armor nerf but u aren't supposed to rely on its armor anyways, its just nice if it bounces sometimes.

Hori will get increased acceleration (due to terrain corssing capacity) and the same traverse (but because terrain crossing capacity increase but traverse decrease).

Effectively, grille will have slightly better gun handling and speed in exchange for everything else. That is just sad.

[slender latch]

I think Tiger P has better armor tho but Tiger I has better mobility

[lunar mural]

when will the balance of Europe tank release?

[fathom glacier]

It should be tomorrow

[halcyon matrix]

You were talking about other tanks that have no armor "like grille, like 263, like leo"

Continues to say that 263 is better because it has decent armor. What are you waffling about lol.

On another note.

Grille in its current state is still so much better than 263. 263 doesn't have armor that holds up. Hopefully will change next update. The dpm of 263 statistically is like the 3rd highest in the game but in practice, the practical dpm is one of the lowest in tier 10 due to awful handling, lack of positions it can go in and not enough armor to actually take on any tank

[shrewd hemlock]

Today in about two hours

[silent anvil]

It is said that it will come out later

[lapis yacht]

Hi, people! Are you ready to see the last list? 🇪🇺

[dense ruin]

Brace yourselves

[proud abyss]

Yessir, I hope Mino gets armor nerf

[robust plaza]

i wonder if something happens to vz55

[proud abyss]

Probably getting a buff since its underpowered compared to other heavies, lets if its actuall gonna be balanced

[wide badge]

Yessir, nerf the tvp to the ground

[neat canopy]

don't you dare think about it

[shrewd hemlock]

The armor nerf will kill it, its one of the worst tanks already

[sudden granite]

Would be nice if premiums weren’t the meta of tournaments, right?

[lost crane]

yes, but WG want to sell premium tank, and what's the point of buying a bad tank

[proud abyss]

Hey where did #coming-soon go? Are they posting it there and giving us permission again

[neat canopy]

theyre currently making more announcements for tvp buffs

[wide badge]

It would be nice if premium doesn't exist on tier X