tank-balance-discussion

[frank bone]

Idc tbh

[jade cargo]

ImmortalfighterX#1757 has been warned.

[azure marten]

Since it’s good now there’s not really any point of changing it

[remote oriole]

Except it is far from good now

[drowsy plaza]

Trolling comments or things not related to tank balance will result in mutes. If you have any doubt - check the pinned messages here.

[rough sandal]

don't, 260 is very annoying on pc, and it has lots of armor cause it is a campain reward tank, not a tank that you can buy with 20k gold

[grave sundial]

Eliminar al anniquilator

[frank bone]

English only

But i can guess what you are saying, "remove annihilator"

[ornate warren]

Never.

[ancient rampart]

This is a terrible idea

[frank bone]

Why?

[hazy garden]

I agree, with you, but don't you think the cheecks could be some what like the CHI-SE where if you turn your turret to the side( a bit or on certain angles) , your cheecks become weak spots, where if you look head on into someone, your cheecks cant be penned(unless you use gold shells, no trying to make people spamm gold), not asking for alot of armor, i just want a bit more amor, because this tank doesn't have much to offer, at least a bit of armor, to save you in certain encounters, it's all im asking, those cheecks with a bit, just a bit od armor, could be some what good, be cause let's face it, this tank is not that good

Not trying to make the hulldown meta go further, hope you understand my point at a certain extent.

[quick lichen]

After reading several “hot takes”, I’m glad that wg doesn’t traditionally listen to most of them

[thorny quartz]

sry bro 👍

[jade cargo]

EpicDoge#4463 has been warned.

ToonTownKat#3409 was muted.

VK168#3972 has been warned.

[jagged swift]

I agree certain tanks need more armor or at least angle it more

[rough sandal]

ofc there are tanks that needs more armor, for example the VK168

[jagged swift]

though too much will slow you down

[rough sandal]

armor actually doesn't influence on the speed of the tank here in the game(i don't know why but it's like that)

[nimble zodiac]

I’m just gonna call it a skill issue that you get penetrated in the VK 168

Even if you get damaged, you’re likely doing it to trade more damage against the enemy, and that’s the point. It’s nothing that needs complaining about

Oh yeah? Sounds like it doesn’t need a buff, then.

[rough sandal]

you just have 4 battles with 25%on the VK168.... i have 500 battles with with 65% wr.... before calling me skill issue at least reach my ability to play the game(and on wot i even have 3 MoE) so yeah... you are the skill issue here not me

[void siren]

Vk 168 is literally awful

You have horrid sides - 60mm track inside armor

Multiple frontal weakspots

Kv-5 and Vk 100 are, in fact, real.

[nimble zodiac]

Ah yes, leave out the 2.7k average damage in my 168. I certainly don’t have 25% from my own lack of skill 🤷‍♂️
KV-5 is just stupid right now, and VK 100 has less of an ability to use its turret armor by angling.

Those 60mm sides may make some high pen TDs drill through (from a broken mechanic, anyways), but it doesn’t prevent you from sidescraping against most tanks

Literally bragging 65% over 500 battles in a tank you’re also asking a buff for. The logic here is… insubstantial

My first battle was a 4k (and a loss, smh)

[rough sandal]

you have literally 4 battles, 4 battles and 2,7k dmg it's average, if you are like this i could bring my 1 battle with 4k dmg battle but it's less than 100 and still you have only 25% wr with 4 battles, that explains that you don't know how to play the tank, and yes i ask for a buff because unlike you i know how to play an super heavy tank and what does a super heavy tank do, and it's not dmg trade..., and as @void siren told 60mm of side armor it's literally too few for a superheavy tank and yes if someone is good enough to aim it will pen.

[nimble zodiac]

You’re literally able to angle so steeply in 168 that the other places become weaker than the sides. If you need a buff, it would be better suited elsewhere.

2.7k is not “average” for a tier 8 😂
You’re tooting your own horn now

Tank is good when a good player plays it? Sounds balanced to me. You’re your own prime example against you

[void siren]

270mm around when fully angled

First of all - play it more

Second of all - I with my 56.63% wr in the Vk 100 with 400 battles think the Vk 168 is pretty meh - it can’t cupola cover effectively, and 60mm track armor kills off sidescraping for the Vk 168

Vk 100 has the amazing front towards enemy philosophy where front facing armor is extremely effective - with two glaring weakspots

Vk 168 has three, and the unangled turret is a free pen

[rough sandal]

it's average, i have 3200 on the 53tp with 3 battles, and second of all 60mm of the even at 76°c of angle that it's insane for an superheavy tank can still be penetrated near the trackwheel and you can't even shoot back when you angle that much and in my experience a super heavy tank is built to BLOCK damage, not keep receiving it on the track that can't even angle properly because unlike the Maus it has front turrett, again, play the tank before talking about it. PS. you start to bounce 270mm apcr when it's 80°c angle

[nimble zodiac]

VK 168 is more like an E100 than a Maus for the tier it’s in. While blocking damage is one of its abilities, out-trading other heavies is a quality that not many tier 8s can rival.

I used this to the point where my team melted before I did (hence high damage, low WR)

Also 53TP is OP, so there’s no talking point there

Not to mention half the reason it’s played despite not being OP: gravity mode. Is it not just alright?

[void siren]

Vk 100

Does it all

Better

Angling the turret to be immune to shots - it can’t do that, but the other weakspots on the Vk 168 mean you’ll find a place to be invincible once in a blue moon.

Oh and the t56 has similar alpha as well, has mobility, and a similar hp with sandbags

I won’t debate it’s efficacy in gravity - but it turns slow relative to the Vk 100 there D:

[rough sandal]

E100 has 120mm under the tracks and 120+ 60mm of spaced armor on the upper(that is very difficult to pen), and yeah 53tp is op it's right but it is to show that 2,7k dmg on tier 8 with low battles is average, third and last reason it was op on gravity, right now a jagdtiger 8,8 can demolish you by jumping

[nimble zodiac]

168 is balanced. That’s really it

[maiden stream]

buff foch 155 gun turn limit maybe?

[ornate warren]

All foch 155 needs is its old fun playstyle back imo

[nimble zodiac]

I really meant by its role. Sure it can block shells, but the chunky gun is what keeps it a threat by itself. It can duel tanks at range and afford to get shot several times.

460 at tier 8 is 640 at tier 10
x4 shots makes 1840 HP and 2560 HP, respectively. Quite in the realm of the tier-respective heavies.

[drowsy plaza]

Tier for tier the Vk168 has better side armor. It’s can actually sidescrape most tier 9 meds unless they load Prammo for the cheeks. I played the Vk168 pre buff to 63% in 385 games and it got a pretty decent buff. The tank is boring and slow, but it’s more than capable as you have already pointed out by your results. There is absolutely zero point in buffing it.

[maiden stream]

yeaaaa i heavily agree with that it was so fun back then, but i like the 3 sec shell clip reload

[void siren]

I only think it needs two things: 100mm behind track armor because track wheeling is bs, and the frontal plate weakspot should vanish

60mm track armor suckssss

[rough sandal]

it has 60mm behind the tracks what are you saying bruh, and my results are literally the 169th positions.... so yeah it needs at least the same side armor as Vk100.01 under the tracks

[void siren]

You fooooool!!!
The gun port weakspot

It has an upper plate weakspot

Check blitzhangar

Delete that silly thing

Posted in #vehicles-discussion

[drowsy plaza]

It’s not nearly as bad as either of you are portraying

Realistically you need >245mm of AP pen (due to normalization) to pen the cheeks reliably. To which you can most likely out trade most opponents, or out HP them if it’s a TD. If you pitch the hull and use gun depression it’s enough more of a beast.

The sides - well anyone who get the sides has an easy day (pretty much par for the course on German tanks

[jade cargo]

stokez#4941 was muted.

[nimble zodiac]

The lower plate really isn’t that difficult to hide while keeping the sides rather strong

I’d say you could buff the driver’s port before you need the sides to be buffed, as the port is the only thing stopping a decent right-sidescrape

Buffing the sides for an experienced player would counter some of the most effective AP shells in the tier, but not that much. The buff would only allow a slightly wider angle, which can keep the upper plate safer

[stone drum]

Only thing I can really say about VK.168.01p, is that I don't understand why it has relatively thin sideskirts at 40mm. I would just buff the sideskirts to allow it to sidescrape at à very wide angle.

[nimble zodiac]

The sideskirts won’t help, as the tracks are the reason the side is so easy to penetrate, via 3CRB. That’s why people believe it’s a drive wheel weakspot, because the drive wheel is causing the shell to normalize into normally auto-rico tracks when it really shouldn’t.

Really, 55mm sideskirts would do what the sides should have done all along: ricochet all t7-9 AP/APCR shells when it’s >70 degrees angled. Now with 3CRB relentlessly embraced by WG, thin sides won’t work anymore.

[nimble zodiac]

3.8k for a tier 8 light is low for an ace?

Gold rounds are intended to trade off damage in preference for penetration. While it's certainly something heavies take advantage of, gold rounds aren't the features that need changes, the heavies do.

+/-25% RNG to pen makes shots less consistent. It's actually rather the opposite point of prammo, which is intended to guarantee or increase the likelihood of a penetrating shot. They don't get "better" if they roll more drastically, they get less consistent.

Ignoring the whole "XP = ace, not damage"
Blitz does not use a +/-25% system for penetration, that was reduced years ago.

[real bison]

yes great idea make the LT-432 a tier 9 in tier 8

[frank bone]

Hot take: WG should remove all super consumables

[prisma jetty]

Assisted damage is very important. You get half of the xp from it. It also means that you are spotting your own damage, and not sharing half of your xp with someone else. At least understand how the system works before insulting someone else.

[humble depot]

No need to be rude. Chicken makes a valid point.

Assist damage and Kills are a major portion the the XP you get in a match, whether you like it or not. If all you do is sit around in a TD and wait for your teammates to spot for you, then you’ll get less XP. If you’re in a Light tank and don’t spot the enemy, then you’ll get less XP. As for getting 10k assist dmg games, those don’t exist because of the parameters for what counts as assist damage. There are people with massive amounts of assist damage in heavy tanks because of how they play, and those usually get them masteries because of that.

[frank bone]

Nah if WG make gold rounds same dmg as standard, the game will be more p2w.

[prisma jetty]

Saying that it does nothing sure does make it look like you don’t know how the system works

[rough sandal]

184mm yes, literally a tier 6 can pen you, for the cheeks you just load prammo to pen them

[humble depot]

You definitely do not understand if you’re making ignorant remarks like this.

[rough sandal]

the lower plate is small and shouldn't be touched, but the 60mm behind the tracks it's low armored, cause yeah with 235/240 if you angle like 75/80°c you can bounce them, but as soon the tanks starts to load premium ammo they can even pen there, and to not talk about the turrett cause should be angled, but with that bad dispersion you can't shoot back as the others HTs can do, the VK100 on the other hand can do it(it just need to hide that gigantic cupola) and has much better side armor, like Kv4, Kv5, and even Lowe and Tiger 2 has better side armor than the VK168. if the vk168.01 had 100mm under the tracks would be much better to play and something decent that isn't another Hull down meta

[nimble zodiac]

Quite passive-aggressive for someone who didn’t realize Blitz uses +/- 5% penetration RNG, as well as for someone who thinks gold rounds having as much damage as normal rounds isn’t one of the main toxic components of World Of Tanks

But hey, if you want to keep it up, we might all appreciate what will happen

[jade cargo]

*FV4201 Chieftain*#5797 has been warned.

[unique scaffold]

Add a little bit of traverse for obj 260 would make a game changing for this heavily i must say

[drowsy plaza]

Kills actually do give Exp, and assist dmg as already pointed out by several members does add up. I’ve gotten 9.7k assist damage in the BC25t simply by spotting for TD’s, sure it’s rare, but not impossible.

[rough sandal]

i know that gold has less pen but better doing less dmg than not penetrating, gold are used in the game of blitz too, you know that?

[nimble zodiac]

Yes, I know Blitz has gold rounds too, I’m talking about how in WoT, they dealt as much damage as standard rounds, and practically were just better versions of standard rounds. Ho-Ri is a good example in Blitz due to the really small difference, which led many players to just run gold since it didn’t have much of a disadvantage for damaging enemies

[rough sandal]

yeah i know that wot has the same dmg on gold and normal

[obtuse sentinel]

Man keeps missing the main point 💀

[nimble zodiac]

So… what was the point of the last message?

[humble depot]

Sir, have you had a stroke?

[rough sandal]

cause even on blitz player they shoot gold too

[nimble zodiac]

Yes… and?

[prisma sedge]

can concept 1b have an actual cupola

[coarse carbon]

It has, just learn how to hit it, it’s only good in hull down, other that that it can’t carry

[stuck acorn]

doesn't change the fact that in somewhat decent position it becomes completly impenetrable. Having tanks that well positioned need to be completly avoided because nobody can do anything about them is just toxic

[stone drum]

"I don't understand why the average american can't understand anything". Refrain from insults regarding nationality, especially as you strut around with an inflated ego making bold, yet incorrect statements, while simultaneously decrying anybody who presents evidence contrary to your claims.

[humble depot]

I love how you attempt to insult my nationality and intelligence while spreading false claims and getting my nationality wrong.

[drowsy plaza]

It’s only situationally useful armor. It’s not a 1v1 game, so if confronted with a tank using it’s positive characteristics, don’t fight it there if your disadvantaged.

[drowsy plaza]

Are you just arguing at this point to argue? Prammo in Blitz can be bought with gold or credits. The High Pen Prammo has less Damage, and the High Damage Prammo has less pen. It’s a trade off. Back prior to the Prammo nerf in 3.9 the Higher Pen Prammo had the same Alpha as that guns standard. It was possible to run exceptionally high ratios of Prammo and just blast folks with it, and no real consequence (unless you where credit poor). At least now there is a downside to spamming Prammo, in the alpha loss.

[rough sandal]

i know how can you buy them and i use them too lol, not my fault if you can't pen you press 2 key or angle 1 degree more to pen the track weakpoint

[nimble zodiac]

Then don’t angle more, that’s been my solution

[orchid grove]

I do kind of miss being able to run full APCR on my 50 B and IS-7 though 😕

[drowsy plaza]

Again, what is your point? That Prammo exists? Or you want to be able to spam it while stopping others so you can be invulnerable? You seem be jumping all around on this issue.

[drowsy plaza]

My Comet and M46 Patton didn’t carry AP for years 😉

[twilit crystal]

Yeah if u had apcr gold u would only run it if u could afford it

[rough sandal]

so you gonna get penned there? okay @drowsy plaza no i'm not jumping on the issue, is that you both don't understand how 60mm side armor is too weak for an super heavy tank that on 75 degress angle can still be penetarted by 90% of the HTs in the game, and not talking about when the tank carries an 121mm more that normalize even 5 degreee more so you basically need an autobounce angle to bounce them.... ON A SUPERHEAVY TANK than sidescrapes worse than an normal heavy tank.... ah and yes even AP normalize 5 degress and apcr 3 degrees so yeah basically you'll get 95% penetrated in that annoying and zero sense weakspot... and if i didn't said it enough times we are talking about an SUPERHEAVY TANK that superheavy tanks aren't made to trade hitpoints with the enemies, but to block shots from them, and with 60mm of armor on tier 8 you can block meds max.. and we are talking about the best scenario when the tank can angle at 75 degrees or more, imagine when it can't do that.... not even talking about the turrett or how slow it is or even how bad the accuracy is... so not even have great sidescrape capabilities just kills the tank performance...., just play it more times and you'll see what i'm talking about, cause one has 4 battles in it and idk the other one

[drowsy plaza]

@rough sandal so this is just a long winded rant about the Vk168. Got it. But you have already been shown why that’s solely a balance feature. It’s got HP, it’s got armor when angled and can out trade most tanks. Not to mention if you can pitch it and use terrain folks are going to need Prammo to pen the cheek strips. Simply the solution to that is to hide the weaker areas and don’t go on flat ground to expose that area. Given that tank doesn’t underperform for players by in tier WR and DMG, at this point I can only deduce you are trolling for an argument.

[rough sandal]

even all the others heavies gots HP and armor and alpha, and no i'm not trolling for an argument, you can even check the rating of Skill4ltu(a player that is very, very good) and rates the tank bad for that reason, instead you are trolling me with your point trying to say that 60mm is enough for an superheavy at tier 8, which superheavy has it, VK100?, KV5?, Kv4?, even normal heavy tanks can do sidescraping better and having better speed and better dpm, with better accuracy, and the WR and DMG are pumped a bit because tech tree tanks are played by everyone, and premium tanks aren't, and VK168 is never raccomended by any youtuber or any above avg player, so it really doesn't mean a lot, and i'm not even talking about the cupola or the mg weakpoint that is very old thing, so stop trolling me and play the tank a little

[drowsy plaza]

I’ve played it upon release before it was buffed. It was poor but still able to get 63% in 385 games. It’s a super heavy the absolutely most boring tank class, so I would question anyone who would recommend it anyway. The issue is the tank is fine, and anyone asking for a heavy tank buff is either trolling or oblivious to the state of the game.

[jade cargo]

VK168#3972 has been warned.

[nimble zodiac]

It deserves 60mm, how about that?

Maybe poke when you’re reloaded and use the alpha to actually trade, and quit watering things down to roles or subclasses like “superheavy”. They don’t need the same playstyle between every tank

It doesn’t need a buff, and if you dare use other heavies as argument, you blind yourself from actual balance

[rough sandal]

so basically, @nimble zodiac can tell me "skill issues" and not get reported, by saying lots of not true thinks about a tank he isn't warned, can you do a pool in the server and ask if the vk168 is a good tank, and btw its the fourth worse Wr tank on premium tanks HTs, and even the report that you gave me is no sense, i have 100 battles on the T34 indipendence and i have 70%wr and so it is the best tank in the game? no. i'm actually a good player that knows what he is doing, not like someone that plays the tank 4 battles and can say skill issues to the other when ofc he doesn't even know what the tank is about, so stop trolling and actually play the tank before even talking about, if i had an NA account i'd show you how the tank is absolutely defendless against 95% of tier 8s tanks in the game

[wicked quest]

??? Totally doesn’t have one of the best T8 health pools he def doesn’t know premiums are supposed to be inferior to tech tree tanks as they always should have been even then the differences 168 lacks in are so minor only someone who’d spam or make the entire tank their personality would care

[rough sandal]

can you create an account in EU server so we can do a 1v1 and i'll show you how the tank can't defend itself against all other Heavy tanks in the game?, cause unless i see someone with actual facts about the tank and not some theorical things, you are just trolling me

[humble depot]

“Can’t defend itself against all other heavy tanks in the game”

So you can’t angle properly or find positions that mitigate weakpoints, which you should do on every tank? This sounds less like the tank being bad (which it isn’t) and more like you being bad.
Also, about your earlier point about the low Average winrate the tank has. There’s another really good explanation for it: Noobs who think a big German SuperHeavy would be OP and easy to play, buy the thing, and do horribly. Almost sounds like you…

@rough sandal If you’re really that good, you should be able to make a tanks as supposedly awful as the 168 is to you work.

[rough sandal]

i have 3100 wn8 and 73,24% wr on 30 days, i'm not bad, i just know how a tank should work

[nimble zodiac]

Getting penetrated through your track wheel? It’s a skill issue. I don’t mean to call you a bad player by any means, but if you really want a buff because you want to be lazy about angling, I’m going to call it a skill issue 🤷‍♂️

The tank is fine, if you really were that frustrated about it, you wouldn’t be playing it hundreds of times, over VK 100, too. Why is that?

It’s a real scenario for people who care about not getting penetrated? If you’re going to bring up the frontscraping turret, then maybe you actually mean you want a turret buff, not a side armor buff

[rough sandal]

i play it cause i'm attached to the tank since it was one of my first premiums in blitz, and no, getting penetrated in the track wheel isn't skill issues, you are literally showing a scenario where the enemy is inside an house or can simple turn 5 degrees and shoot you, literally, which zone in the map you can face frontally like that? and btw there still is a green part that can get penetrated(yeah ik lowe has a very good pen, but still it can get penetrated) try to show a real scenario

[real bison]

but that is a real scenario??

and if they move out to pen you, you now have an easy return shot, or your teammates can shoot them for you

[rough sandal]

we can do a test if you want, since you are in the EU server

[distant river]

There is literally nothing to test.

The tank is fine how it is, with clear advantages that it can use well. It does not work when played badly and angled wrong, but that is not surprising.

[rough sandal]

the 5th worst performing premium heavy tank for win rate it's fine how it is?

[nimble zodiac]

The fact you’re ignoring the non-heavies really shows how much you don’t actually care about tier 8 balance. Heavy meta is heavy meta

[rough sandal]

cause there are other several Medium tanks behind it that are or even worse (T95E2) or too much situational, because even STG has higher win rate, and we are talking about an heavy tank, not tier 8 balancing(https://www.blitzstars.com/toptanks) i'm looking here btw, and i don't bring tech trees cause they can be stock tanks so ofc a stock Sta-1 will perform worse in a tier 8/9 battle

[distant river]

Blitzstars overall WR is not useful, but blitzanalysiz relative WR is, and shows that it's a nice average heavy

[burnt venture]

Current best solution for reducing imbalance for any tier in the game:

• nerf overperforming heavy tanks

Current best solution for reducing imbalance between tiers in the game:

• nerf overperforming heavy tanks

Current best solution for making non-heavy tanks decent again and not struggle against heavy tanks:

• nerf overperforming heavy tanks

If you want to see more than just one type of tank in competitive meta:

• nerf overperforming heavy tanks

No heavy tank really needs buffs. Even "weak" heavy tanks do just fine against mediums. If a heavy tank needs a buff it's really only because other heavy tanks are too strong.

[rough sandal]

90% of the premium that has worse wn8 it's because they are simply worse, like wz111 and probably they are not even played, but they are 90% similar to the tech tree, try to compare an VK100 with the VK168 and also can you show me the site link? thanks

[ornate shuttle]

WR charts proven themselves to be useless and unreliable multiple times, they are by NO means a source for how good or well performing x tank is from an Objective standpoint. so much that wg itself stop relying on it and created new ways to rank tanks. It is really naive to believe vk168 is a ok tank just because its ok on clearly Biased perform. charts. The tank is utterly tremendous in Every single situation but sidescrape, and sidescrape is a very niche and situational thing, most of the times a waste of time an unnecessary, for skilled gameplay. On top of it, it is also a Mediocre sidescrape tank, because it only works in very very limited angles (any tank outside the right angle, can rekt the vk1680, it cant shoot while not being penned, and also it is forced to show some of the upper plate, which is too weak to be a 20km/h superheavy and it gets shredded by heavy tank golds. i can name dozens of t8 tanks that can sidescrape better than vk168, and I can't name a single situation where vk168 is better than ANY other tank, except sidescraping, and it is in the lower half of sidescraping tanks by objective strength.

@drowsy plaza i know, but wg used to rely on performance charts captured in a very similar (biased) methodology.

those charts are saying vk168 is a better performing heavy than: IS5, T34, 112 Glacial, Caernarvon, Lowe, amx m49, the buffed vk45a, T26e5, vk100 (which is a better vk168) and caern AX. believing this is true is just a clear sign of lack of game knowledge IMO, cuz those tanks are all much stronger and more effective in battle than a vk168.

@distant river vk168 is a niche tank that loses to more than half tanks in its own niche, even though those tanks do much better than vk168 in any other department as well. it can only sidescrape, and it ain't nowhere near the best sidescrape tank .

[drowsy plaza]

BlitzAnalysis isn’t related to WG.

@ornate shuttle if you think that you’re either not looking at the site with all the data it gives, or you are just trolling.

[distant river]

@rough sandal You just ignored everything I said... 🤦‍♀️

@ornate shuttle That's a very very err interesting take.
I'd love to see the "proof" that you referenced a lot but I doubt exists

The 168 is a niche tank, but it fills the niche well and needs no change.

[unique scaffold]

nah bro calm down

[rough sandal]

show me the site

[nimble zodiac]

Wargaming left the WR charts and now Type 71 existed

Still coping with 3CRB and abusing auto-rico, though 👀

[ornate shuttle]

tank just released has no performance charts, so even with them it wouldn't have changed nothing.
you fail to realize Wargaming's objective isnt ALWAYS to make perfectly balanced tanks, type 71 was purposefully overperforming to shift the cw meta to a new tank (no reason to ignore all the testers otherwise) and got nerfed after, and now is in a perfectly balanced spot, it has many flaws but is still good at doing its thing.
p.s. are you stating that prior to dropping performance charts, we never got ridiculously unbalanced tanks?

i think blitzanalisys is a very very good TOOL (it basically just shows you stats informations of groups of people/tanks) , that if well utilised and accompanied by good game knowledge, can help getting the correct idea of how good a tank is in the current meta, but it is not holding absolute truth, and can be easily contested, because there is no way to gather completely unbiased performance stats data about a tank, you always need to bias towards something, and it can't be ignored. even if could magically exclude all battles done on a stock tank or without maxed abilities, while still including all battles from all other players, even if just a few, it would still be Flawed.

The whole playerbase on average, in total, has a certain amount of skills, by looking at the stats of a single tank, you are already excluding the part of the playerbase that havent played said tank in the update, or doesn't own said tank. Lets talk for tier 8 tech trees for example, almost the majority of skilled players play only t10 or very very few t8 premium battles and even less tech tree, so the Per Update charts you get on old t8 tech trees is extremely biased towards new players that recently got the tank, and still play it and plag at lower tiers, with worse average skill, this means the chart is biased towards tanks that are EASIER to play, compared to OBJECTIVELY stronger.

you could cut off the weaker career stats players from the list, and pick only the well above average ones, but now you are getting an extremely smalller sample size, with sample sizes hugely varying between different tanks for a handful of reaons, thus being once again, non reliable data (at least, for SURE, not 100% accurate data)

Yeah, all those issues ASSUMING that WN8/avg dmg/Win rate is an absolute True indicator of tank strength, when it actually isnt, so yeah... be careful when looking at data

and no, @drowsy plaza im not trolling, i just cant type everything in 2 lines of text and needed more time

[rough sandal]

and alse the photo is compared to the avg wr of the tier

[real bison]

first of all CM7777 is saying that WG abandon using the WR charts as a sort of guideline and thus the Type 71 gets to be moronically OP for too long (then they add the mino which people dont like playing or playing against and instead of fixing it and responding to the community, decide to mess up the Foch 155 line instead lol)

WG's objective SHOULD be to create balanced vehicles too, and in my eyes, also make them fun to play and fair to play against, which means avoiding things like the Type 71, Mino, V4, which are just 3 examples of the recent terrible decisions WG have made in terms of balancing

To add to that, the trend for balancing is going more towards "balancing for the sub-average moron who can't handle it when Unicum_XXX utterly outplays them"

WG dont really listen to the players that actually matter in terms of making balanced tanks- the pros.
Ask anyone who played through the 60TP or Type 71 spam meta in high level tourns and they will likely say that it was boring- which is because it was. What if WG listened to the input from the pros, those who know the game in and out, every mechanic, every little nuance in the game. Would we have such terrible balancing? I don't think so.

[ornate shuttle]

^ thats what i also think, their new method of balancing might be better than perf charts, but it probably still sucks, and they almost NEVER listen to the skilled part of testers when balancing tanks, i think how bad players perform in a tank shouldn't be considered, because they simply dont know how to play the tank correctly, its like asking someone with hearing problems to calibrate a pair of headphones, the result is gonna be bad. + i am 100% sure their objective is NOT that of reaching perfect balance, they also want to shift the meta (and the cw meta) towards newer tanks sometimes, so they make broken stuff like pre nerf type 71 ( i think even the pre nerf type 71 was a boring tank to play) and yeah, minotauro and obj v4 are clearly balanced around less skilled players, cause it barely needs skill to be annoying in it, but the tank itself is Meh, only appears good or op if you re noob cuz compared to other tanks, u can be really annoying to enemies even with little skill, their gameplay design is just bad, im not saying all tanks should be hard to play, but tanks like IS-7 exists, they re easy to play for a noob, but pros can also master it, and effortlessly counter a noob driving is7. (which is how it should be, cause noob obj v4 driving straight and killing unicums just because their tank lacks the gold pen/accuracy/speed to easily deal with it like they do with any other noob driven tank, is just bad game design )

pretty sure if they just collect the average opinions amongst the higher ranks of tournament players, they can easily fix 95% of unbalanced stuff, of tier 10 at least

honestly i have no idea where is the balance going in last few patches, they are changing the stats of RANDOM tanks out of nowhere, making them trash or completely changing their unique playstyle making them boring

[stone drum]

Premiums being inferior to tech tree tanks was abandoned ages ago, and for good reason, it's simply not a good business model, premiums should be on par with their tech tree counterparts, offering unique or interesting gameplay.

[ornate shuttle]

luckily in wotb, unlike wot, premiums arent the better vr of tech trees anymore, it still doesn't mean that wg can make a garbage tank and sell it, it should still be at least average, + vk168 doesn't offer any unique or interesting gameplay

[full token]

It has its fun in gravity mode. Otherwise it’s an ok tank and doesn’t need a buff

[patent helm]

they already offer a better credit coefficient and the ability to convert to free xp, i dont really see a need for them to be as good or better than tech tree counterparts
if anything, wg hurt themselves by making it easier to progress and making t8 Premiums less necessary than they were

[full token]

Credits and free xp are easier to obtain now. You have more ways of getting credits, premium tanks or gold to buy premium tanks given away here and there. Lot of x5, x4, x3 certificates, and special game modes. There’s not as much need to get a premium tank to grind credits. Tech trees can also give you elite xp to convert

[drowsy plaza]

We have drifted way past tank balancing… I don’t disagree with that opinion, the games credit economy was ruined and it because easy to stockpile hundreds of millions of credits. I think however that belongs in #general-blitz-discussion not in tank balance.

[loud kelp]

Why wont you all buff the 215Bs sides?? Its clearly not doing well in the metta and other than turret armor it has nothing. And the tank is also MASSIVE so it needs some armor ffs.

[rough sandal]

215b is an support HT, use the turrett and it will be fine

[rich oracle]

Turn every tank into a heavy and I'll balance out the heavy tank meta

[unique scaffold]

they should do rebalance of unrealistic tanks

[midnight linden]

“I can’t play the 215B! Noob proof it please!”

[unique scaffold]

When are going to make an improvement in LT-432, STG, Object 274a, type 59, amx cdc and lansen c? Thanks

[humble depot]

The 432 and 274a are fine.

[drowsy plaza]

The STG is actually fun. It requires some effort but it’s not a bad tank.

[drowsy plaza]

Why would you be showing the sides in a 215b, it’s a heavium, go kill meds and lights with it and don’t get into non mobile sidescrape battle with it. That’s not the tank for that sort of activity. While it could do with some love, armor isn’t it, DPM and dispersion buffs back to what it was would be nice.

[stone drum]

VK 168.01p exsists solely for gravity mode.
Personally I would make it better, but at the sametime I dont see a pressing need for it when superpershing still exsists.

@drowsy plaza if they cut the turret turning dispersion down to .08 it would be perfect imo, I don't see why it has randomly garbage turret dispersion factors.

[loud kelp]

Meds will rip you apart if you are gonna play it like that

[midnight linden]

• Has enough HP to out trade meds
• Has more than enough DPM to tear meds apart
• Also has 170 mm of HESH pen
• Reactive armor
• sandbag armor
  We’re going to ignore all of these factors because we cannot accept the fact that we can’t play 215B

[sharp forge]

I think superpershing need some buff on the armament ., Either reload time or aiming or pen will be good enough

[unique scaffold]

225 mm apcr? sure? the worse apcr penetration tier 8?

[silk geode]

How about buff just in this side?

[midnight linden]

How about… we simply get better and learn that the 215B is not a brain dead side scraping heavy, or better yet, just don’t touch the tank

[jade cargo]

Gaming Bro#4300 was muted.

[drowsy plaza]

Armor Highlighting has been in Blitz since Day 1. It’s here, it’s not going, so live with it. Now it would be nice if that stopped at tier 5 or so, but…

[frank bone]

Buff the is-3 aiming time to 5.5 sec.

[orchid grove]

The DPM is actually already back to where it was. Compared to the old FV, the only difference is that it lost its upper front plate armor, but gained the 170 pen HESH

[drowsy plaza]

Re: STG It’s got 400 alpha, good aim time, and a decent dispersion for 400 alpha medium guns and the best mobility of the 400 alpha, and a solid turret. It’s not a good tank to play if you can’t use terrain or have low situational awareness

[drowsy plaza]

I thought it was a tad under still, but I may not have been reading the right columns.

[neat sentinel]

Nope

[loud kelp]

Strv is op asf if needs a nerf lmao

[humble depot]

It’s definitely not OP.

[prisma jetty]

STRV K is disgustingly strong. It is essentially just a medium tank with heavy tank HP. Want to deal with a medium? Easy, just use your HP to bully it. Want to deal with a heavy? Easy, just use your dpm to bully it. Need some extra speed? Super speed boost.

[obtuse sentinel]

None of the heavy tanks need a buff. All of the heavy tanks at tier 7 and above are so overcooked that they completely overshadow all the other classes. Also note: Notice how all the players who play poorly constantly beg and cry “please buff (insert heavy tank name here)” and completely ignore that there are 3 other classes in the game that definitely need some love in order to become relevant again.

[void siren]

Tier 8 heavies have one, giant bottleneck to prevent some of them from being op

They all, universally, lack dpm
that's good

tds need hate not love, giving them love makes the other 3 classes sad

[patent helm]

german heavy line syndrome

[obtuse sentinel]

I wouldn’t say they all “universally” lack DPM. There are a certain lot that have good DPM, but usually end up trading something for it. The one notable exception to this is the Tiger II where the tank is basically universally good in everything it does. But even so, even if they lack in one aspect, it doesn’t make them not OP because they still outperform every other class by default hencewise making them OP.

[calm swallow]

Do u guys notice that the Tiger 1 is the only tank in tier 7 that have 203 mm of penetration, more than all others heavy s in tier 7, it's insane cause a normal tier 7 heavy tank only have 175mm penetration average

[orchid grove]

Meanwhile Caernarvon with 3k DPM lol

[loud kelp]

I will say 6, things. 100$+ to get it, Super speed, OP dpm, nearly 2700 hp, maneuverability, pen, turret armor.

[void siren]

That doesn’t have anything a normal t8 heavy does

[calm swallow]

Also the Tiger 1 has a really good mobility having 43 km/h on top speed, more than the new american mediun tank the T26 eagle 7(he has 40km/h...) In my opinion the Tiger needs to get a little nerf, not on the gun, not on the armor but at on the mobility

[ancient rampart]

New

[loud kelp]

Tiger is just a strong tank, some tanks that really need a nerf in T7 are smasher, annihilator, and Cs 52 Liz

[real bison]

no tier 7 MT needs a nerf

[calm swallow]

Why the Cs 52 Liz, elaborate pls!
I just don't remember his aspect s

[loud kelp]

Insane armor, good pen, good Hp. Good spotting and camo, best T7 med by far

[ebon lynx]

CS-52 is good but not insane

[quiet fractal]

I think that the old dpm is 3100 plus or so, but now it is only about 2700 or 2800, just think that I feel more comfortable to play 215 in the old nice dpm. the amour on it doesn’t have significant difference on the performance in my opinion. it’s quite decent actually.

[outer glen]

I think the old one has like less than 7s with rammer?

[quiet fractal]

probably 7.7 with calibrated, I don’t use rammer on 215 because of the hesh penetration is a lot different in my opinion

[outer glen]

Now with rammer its 3.2k without its 3k dpm

[stone drum]

I don't know what your talking about, Type 59 and cdc are just straight up bad.

@obtuse sentinel, lol did you just call the AMX m4 45 overcooked?

[quiet fractal]

I think 59’s play-style is just like obj140 in lower tiers (i mean t54lt), the point is it’s gun is 100mm in tier eight, which is higher than most other meds (like sta and panzers), and I think cdc is just an average tank with a (not really well) fine gun, just not a tank that is overpowered but have an average performance. And I just think 215 is already a solid tank now, but as a 215 fan, a buff is just nice (°▽°). Idk, but i performs it at about 1500 average in the cdc, i think that is enough for an tier eight mt

[stone drum]

Cdc is one of the worst performing tier 8s in the game... nowhere near average.

[drowsy plaza]

CDC is a worse Dracula in a higher tier. The DPM, Pen and better base dispersion (and slightly better aim time) don’t make up for the size difference combined with the easily HE’able CDC, the worse gun handling modifiers and worse mobility.

[loud kelp]

It only used to be good because people used to be so bad, it also was the fastest tank on the game at the time and no one could aim.

[drowsy plaza]

Ru251 was in game prior. As was the Type 62.

[stone drum]

yes, precisely why I sold cdc for dracula.
On another unrelated note, the FCM 50t should honestly just be downtiered to a tier 7 heavy.
(With a mobility nerf)

[drowsy plaza]

If they made the CDC a light and bumped the mobility it wouldn’t be as bad.

[twilit crystal]

make the cdc a leo 1 it isnt that hard. Give it 240 alpha .1 gun handling otm and 1 more rpm, around 2800 dpm is fine

[stone drum]

Funnily enough cdc, was just another development of the AMX-50 and had an autoloader, the size is also considerably exaggerated by wg.

[unique scaffold]

What does the terrain crossing capacity mean

[stray oyster]

(Horsepower/Weight) x (Terrain Xing) = Effective Power to Weight Ratio In console you would divide by TCross instead since it uses different numbers for TCross

[unique scaffold]

Ah ok thanks

[coarse carbon]

Trust me, turret armour isn’t good on this tank. Pen is quite bad too. 326 on APCR isn’t the greatest. But dpm is nice tho, trouble is: this is pew pew gun, but you can rack up damage quite quick. It’s all around nice tank, but I wouldn’t say it’s op…

[nimble zodiac]

It’s hard for some to call it OP while other heavy tanks roll around, but there’s barely anything a medium can do about it. It’s trespassing into territory that it shouldn’t be purposed for, and isn’t sacrificing enough to be in

[stone drum]

It's slightly distorted

[loud kelp]

The turret is troll asf in game. The it’s also fast so it can get to every side meaning the pen is good but not really needed. The super speed boost also makes it accelerate faster than all meds and lights and it can easily chase them down. Something a heavy with decent armor should not be able to do.

[stone drum]

It has an armour profile roughly on par with AMX-30b, patton, and abit weaker than STB-1.

[loud kelp]

Yea but the turret is still very good against all standard rounds (maybe not some TDs) but the strv is a legit a med with more hp and dpm. Also more speed and acceleration

[storm spoke]

this one dude in discord : "strvk isnt op"
basically all pros except those crazy tvp spammers : 👀

[stone drum]

The regular speed is pretty unimpressive, but admittedly the speed boost helps alot.
however I certainly don't view it as op, its just a medium stomper. Regardless it's still an example of awful game/tank design making a toxic tank.

[heavy surge]

Nerf SMV CC-64 turret armor

[loud kelp]

ONG BRO

[halcyon ether]

the armor on the turt to the mk 6 royal need a serie armor buff the armor trash on the turret there a weak spot in the middle of the turret

[stuck acorn]

sounds like a skill issue

[quick lichen]

“I bought a lightly armored heavy tank without paying attention to what I was buying”

[stone drum]

looks around abit late for that... lol

[jade cargo]

zenmog#5510 has been warned.

[drowsy plaza]

Any Med that can aim can cheese the STRV turret, it’s Hp is really all it has over a medium. It’s a capable tank in good hands, but it’s far from OP.

[vernal oyster]

Yeah but it has a big cupola

I was talking about the t10 chieftain //// I mean the tank is already fast so don’t really need extra speed or maybe better acceleration or armor

[charred heron]

At least make the hatch on mk6 HE proof would be nice.

Frankly I’m not on the receiving end of this and it’s really funny but I feel bad doing this to mk6s with any gun with >90mm HE pen

[tiny plank]

sad e3 noises

[stuck acorn]

that's how this tank is suposed to be. Just deal with it

[mighty cape]

annihilated needs to be nerfed

[drowsy plaza]

While you aren’t wrong, there are a lot of heavies that need the nerf bat in tier 7, but it needs to be done as complete tier rebalancing, which after the tier X rebalance, I don’t think will work out how most of us believe it should go.

[mighty cape]

something just has to be done. but of course they won’t nerf a paid tank

[drowsy plaza]

They will, but only as part of an entire tier rebalance as we saw in tier X.

[stone drum]

It was supposed to be the original hulldown tank, however it fails honestly quite misérably.

[stuck acorn]

it's still a great tank that doesn't need any changes though

[drowsy plaza]

It’s a great tank, just requires positioning and a non static play style.

[stone drum]

It is largely fine and it doesn't need major changes, however the strength of the turret from the front specifically the forehead should be more consistent. Albeit I strongly disagree with adjusting the cupola.
Alternatively the turret turning factor could be reduced to .08, and the engine power increased, but that's not a good path to go down imo.

[rough sandal]

pros on what? it's easy do dmg with an good tank, try with a bad one

[frank bone]

Nerf tvp intraclip to 2 sec or 1.8

[merry pelican]

Make Amx 50 120 have 8° gun depression.

[stone drum]

One day, but me must have patience young one, the day of glory is near...

[real bison]

would personally want the Chief Mk.6 to get a more uniform turret

the only spot on the turret that is actually 350mm is the slab of armour behind the gunner's sight

[storm spoke]

?

[rough sandal]

cause playing a good tank isn't for pros

[storm spoke]

i have no idea what you mean and why you pinged me

[granite pebble]

..... So pro players play... Bad tanks? Is that what you think?

[rough sandal]

no, but it's harder to use an STG than a Shark?

[loud kelp]

Yea, because Stg is not a good tank and the shark is OP

[rough sandal]

how the shark can be harder to play than stg sorry

[loud kelp]

I didn’t say it was 💀

[granite pebble]

What does that have to do with anything, the topic was the STRV K and how pros think the tank is uber strong.
Thats what the dude you replied to was saying.

[rough sandal]

this one dude in discord : "strvk isnt op"
basically all pros except those crazy tvp spammers :

[main tulip]

literally no one knows what you're trying to say by that

[loud kelp]

Strv is broken in mobility and dpm, take away some dpm and speed boost and its balanced

[burnt venture]

It's nowhere close to being OP. It's more of just a sad reminder of how truly stupid the heavy tank meta is. Mediums are barely considered at all in comp, but a medium dressed up as a heavy tank is suddenly widespread just because of the HP. The talks of "nerfs" by WG is purely due to the tank being a premium that's being used in competitive which creates an unfair advantage.

But instead of fixing the problem, they're going to nerf what is actually a pretty mediocre tank so it just goes into oblivion.

There's very likely going to be a hit to gun handling, DPM, or mobility which will basically kill the tank's playability and popularity in random games, just so it doesn't get used in comp.

[stone drum]

Funny, if they have the m60 or m48, 2350+hp it would suddenly become the most utterly "op" tank in the game in many players eyes.

[burnt venture]

I personally don't get how Strv K is an issue but the 95E6 is just fine lol. Like both tanks are equally well balanced. It's just mediums are stupidly weak that makes these fast heavies look like a problem

I highly suspect Strv K is being called out because of comp use + rarity, not because it's actually that good to warrant nerfs

[austere citrus]

buff obj 260 dpm to 3.4k and give it super op 252U type upper plate

[stone drum]

Because the average blitz player finds mitigating cupola weakspots impossible.

[ionic kraken]

Strv K needs it's damn turret fixed. It says 252mm, but in reality most of it is only 130mm tops, which is pathetic for a heavy in tier X. If everything around the gun mantlet is altered to be 250mm, then the thing could at least be considered a heavy in one way.

215b has the same issue when it comes to it's paper thin Hull armor. They are "heavy" in name and nothing else.

[granite pebble]

The duality of WOTB community, some say the tank is OP, other want it to be buffed

Never gets old

[upbeat sphinx]

People just complain cause on blitzstsars has the second highest wr on tier 10, ignoring that is played by few skilled players.

[main tulip]

That's exactly how it should be, with heavies classified as such due to size/weight. "Heavy" should not be assumed to implicate strong armor at all

[nimble zodiac]

You know how it’s a heavy? It has lacking mobility compared to mediums, and it has lots more HP. Easy. Heavies don’t have to have lots of armor

It’s called a gun mantlet and a mostly auto-rico upper plate

[ionic kraken]

They still need to have some form of armor, cuz at that point you may as well call it an overweight medium

[wicked quest]

Oh gee you haven’t been playing for long have you

[coarse carbon]

And when you compare to relative winrate for average player you can see Strv K is 11th on the list. Which proves your point. Minotauro is 3rd, 1st place belongs to badger. However funny enough I don’t see many people crying over badger being too strong

[distant river]

If only there was a word that meant "heavier than a medium"

Oh and also the strv k has inflated relative WR because it's playerbase is skewed towards better players which the tank rewards more

[wild bramble]

Hello

[twilit crystal]

basically yeah meds are far too weak. Lights have some advantage in that they actually have the extra mobility and camo/view range to outfight heavies but meds are hopeless. Only med I play is tvp

[nimble zodiac]

Nobody talks about the Badger because every reasonable person agrees, it’s really just us waiting for WG to nerf it, instead of giving a cold take like “Smasher is OP”

This is a channel for discussion for a reason.

Strv is underwhelming for bad players 😉

You do understand that you shouldn’t judge Strv K as a heavy, right? Strv K is a medium hunter, or a self-sufficient tank that can get into restricted areas and farm.

[ionic kraken]

If nearly 27k battles is "not long" in your terms, then sure.
Case in point, strv k is just underwhelming. Every single heavy I played has two things going, hit hard and block hard. Some do more of the other than the latter. Strv K... Does neither.

[burnt venture]

What's funnier is that I don't see people complaining about how OP or broken any of the most played tanks at the moment are. You focus on Strv K, a tank which has like 1100 players in it, vs. the 5 most popular tanks in the game right now:

• 183 accuracy buff along with the PBR armor was a stupid decision. I wonder why all of a sudden it has a massive 1.5 million more games played, while also rocking over 50% wr?

• TVP and Sheridan are just blatantly broken. Two of the most popular tanks in the game, but just happens to rock 55% and 53.5% winrates. That's just so healthy for the game, obviously.

• T57 Heavy nobody talks about at all, while it's just the most played heavy tank in the game while also having 53% winrate. Because the last armor change along with intraclip booster was a great idea on a 3k DPM clipper.

• Everybody wants a Grille buff but y'all still spamming it like crazy with over 50% winrate.

The number 1 tanks on the nerf list alongside stupid overperforming tanks, should be the most popular ones. People love spamming these tanks over and over because of one very good reason: the effort you have to put into these tanks is far less for the same results in other tanks.

[wicked quest]

If you got 27k I expect you to know what heavium means have you never faced against the Mk6 , amx 50 B concept 1B? hell 5A

[coarse carbon]

I always thought them tanks you’re on about are just fun to play. Maybe not grille but come on… Sheri? TVP? 183? They’re ultimate meme/fun machines… and probably that’s one of biggest reasons why they’re so popular

[main tulip]

Sheridan is busted right now, fun factor aside. Requires zero skill to get insane value out of it

[ionic kraken]

If I want to play a heavy that's fast, shoots fast and can take hits, I'd drive the Concept. Mk. 6 turret is still weird til this day with what amounts to bald spots of armor that is deceitfully thin. 5A is a solid heavy, not a heavium. And the 50B... The French really can't decide what the hell do they want their tank to do with that one, cuz despite having "no armor", it blocks more shots than some well armored heavies, cuz it's like a reflective glass, move it around and it's always gonna have red glimpses all over the front.

None of those tanks are like the Strv K. In PC, it's literally classified as a medium tank

[nimble zodiac]

Strv K certainly has a stronger turret than 50 B

Granted they had a skill issue, I literally facehugged a Kranvagn and a Type 71 and used the mantlet to block a good 2-3 shots from each one. It’s not a tank you should ignore at all

It’s in no need of a buff, if not in need of some rebalance nerf

[burnt venture]

• 183 is more popular than ever after PBR + accuracy changes. It's always been one of the most popular, but this is the largest the gap has ever been between 183 and other tanks. On top of that, the above 50% winrate means that it's actually pulling it's weight somewhat now, while the old 183 had a really awful winrate despite the popularity. I can tell you right now the extra armor + accuracy is making it really stupidly easy to use.

Sheridan and TVP are broken. Simple as that. There really needs to be no more explanations here. They're supposed to be skill-based tanks, yet right now they're so popular because in fact they're stupidly easy to play. It takes so little thinking or judgement to yolo someone for 1200, or sit in a bush, spot across the map, and hit for TD alpha without any real counterplay. And the insane popularity plus a ridiculously high winrate shows that.

• Note that this is the most popular Sheridan has ever been since ATGM removals. However, T92E1 is NOT on the list, even though it was consistently considered stronger than the Sheridan and was side-by-side in popularity during the ATGM days. The viewrange buff to the Sheridan has increased its popularity dramatically because now it's so much easier to play, risking almost nothing for such a huge alpha reward in return.

• TVP wasn't even on anybody's radar and was considered a niche unicum-only tank. And now it's almost at the top of the list in popularity, because of the complete overbuff it got to its gun. The stupidly fast intraclip means that it just trades too well: previously you'd need actual openings, now you need 5 seconds. And it has some armor on top of that to randomly bounce shots. That buff basically made the tank from niche to broken, it's basically the best trading tank in the game right now

[ionic kraken]

I never said "buff the strv K", I said "Fix the turret". If it says it has 252mm of armor, it should have that much armor all around the front, not just on the mantlet and slightly around it. Literally, everything else on it can stay the same, just even out the armor on the turret front, make it at least 200mm on the cheeks, not 130.

They are at least relatively close to the thickest plate, not an almost staggering 120mm less.

@nimble zodiac that's a bs comparison. The chieftain turret is actually slanted, which makes it impenetrable at a slight angle. Only parts that aren't 350mm are a small flat spot to the upper right of the gun (or left, forgot which) and above the gun, the rest of the turret still has 300mm-ish around it, that can also be angled.
Strv K's turret is FLAT, and it has basically HALF the armor it's supposed to have, that even under an angle is left with two giant "shoot me" banners to either side of the gun. It's a disappointment as a heavy tank.

[prisma jetty]

The armor value has always represented the thickest plate. Most turrets aren’t uniform around the entire front.

[nimble zodiac]

I’d complain more about Chieftain Mk. 6 then, since it’s not 350mm all around its turret front 🤪

What the number says shouldn’t matter to tank balance

[distant river]

It's not possible to have one value give all the information for all of the armour on a view of a tank... Nobody in their right mind looks at the in game armour values

[ionic kraken]

Ugh, why am I even arguing with children about a medium tank cosplaying a heavy. If y'all not changing it's stats, then classify it as a damn medium tank instead, cuz it's literally got the ideal stats to be a medium. Calling it a heavy is an insult to heavies and it doesn't even fit as a heavium.

At least PC WoT did it right and classified it as an assault medium.

[patent helm]

use your gundep and they cant pen your ufp or turret roof
and yes the cheeks arent small, but you can still Wiggle your turret+ move your tank
have you ever played a german heavy?? the weakspot on the strv is smaller

[austere citrus]

BUFF OBJECT 260, the TANK IS TERRIBLE RN, no gun depression, mid alpha, no hp, no armor

[ionic kraken]

Yes, but what do you even do about the huge cheeks? Literally, that's the only thing that limits it's survivability.

@patent helm when are you ever gonna wiggle whilst trying to take shots? Besides, that makes it even worse, cuz tier X in EU aren't idiots and will wait until you present one of the cheeks fully to receive an armor piercing haymaker. And FYI, I main German heavies, I know how they work, but you don't need to wiggle them at all. 50B on the other hand becomes immortal if it doesn't stop moving and I can personally testify to that French black magic, as I have survived things that a 50B should physically be unable to survive.

And also, I agree, the 260 is just plain neglected these days @austere citrus

[patent helm]

if you main German heavies then you would know that the turret front (used to be) is a huge weakspot, that is until wg overbuffed them, but its still a weakspot
look at the tiger 2, e75, e50, vk 45 etc all can be penned through the turret front with prammo (used to be standard ammo)

[nimble zodiac]

How about ignore the fact its a heavy tank and play based on its stats? Stop trying to play it like a heavy, because it isn’t. It’s like trying to play assault TDs as snipers because “they’re TDs”

It’s a heavy because it’s sluggish and has lots of HP, that’s it for WG. By nature, it’s a heavium

[real bison]

people when heaviums exist:

[ionic kraken]

I know, I played them prior to their big buffs and still blocked a lot. Hell, I even bounced tier 9 TDs with the pre-buff Tiger II. Key to those tanks is, don't show the turrets until you're ready to shoot and when angling from around the corner, keep the gun facing outward, not inward.

@zealous vessel saw that thing in battle actually. It's armor is ridiculous

[nimble zodiac]

Mind you, the majority of the turret front is the 252mm plate, so it makes sense that it took the most armored and primary area of the turret front.

If it was shown as 124mm, the opposite of you would complain that it makes Strv K’s turret look weaker than it is.

Chieftain has tiny 350mm spots, which shows you how silly generalizing an armor profile with one number is.

[loud kelp]

183 is always going to be a popular tank because you can slap people but only have about 3 shells a minute. Its not Op its just mid

[stone drum]

Looks like you haven't play anything french.

[halcyon ether]

it still need a turret buff i selled the tank because of the bad turret armor it need buff

[drowsy plaza]

What tank are you complaining about?

[stone drum]

Probably kranvagn, lol.

[halcyon ether]

im talking about the mk 6 royal people can pernitrate the turret

[stone drum]

Does anyone have any idea what could be some future abilities that would be non-toxic and would positively benefit the game, providing interesting and skilled/skill-based gameplay?

[nimble zodiac]

That’s the point. If it didn’t have that cupola it would be a busted tank

@stone drum Abilities? Maybe something that makes you reload faster if you sit still

[halcyon ether]

it would not be a busted tank it need a turret armor buff

[nimble zodiac]

My advice is that you move around as you reload while hulldown, and throw off any shots at your cupola they throw. I know Chieftain isn't gonna get a cupola buff or anything with the turret, so I'm afraid you have to work with the nice tank you already have

[hot fossil]

Strvk is pretty much a medium classed as heavy

[azure belfry]

Imo more like an American object 120

[wraith trail]

*tl-7-120

[stone drum]

Yeah, "spécial mechanics" and such. Since every new tank will likely have such.

[humble depot]

No, I think he means the Object 120 “Taran”

[alpine heart]

i want the VK 36.01H be faster plz

[orchid gyro]

Uhh
No

[humble depot]

No, it’s already overperforming as-is.

[azure bobcat]

they can improve the aiming time of the 60tp is very bad

[humble depot]

No, because the 60TP is fine right now.

Also @drowsy frigate it’s currently very strong. Great armour, great gun.

[vivid skiff]

its just fine lmao? i use the 60tp often and have no problems with it? sure, it may miss a shot or two, but does the accuracy really bother you that much? (unless you have skill issue then, yeah)

[plucky quail]

The kv-1 is slow in reload and speed with update the kv-1 speed and reload

[heavy surge]

Tiger I down gun depression is way too small, -7 now when it is in reality of -8

[upbeat sphinx]

tiger 1 does not need any change, its' already quite busted
@heavy surge first of all stop curb your enthusiasm about German tanks. Secondly, this is an arcade game so it's not striving for realism: Third, Tiger 1 imho it received already a buff to the armour when it got the pbr few months ago. It got strip of spaced Armour on the side, so it can bounce there sometimes, and tier 6 even with gold struggle a lot to pen it. It's more than good tank, Blitz tank analysis shows that is the second best played tech tree tank at tier 7, so it's balanced well and even among the best performing tanks at the tier

[heavy surge]

It was 10x more broken IRL than IG, and it has been nerfed by weegee in the past. A buff on the gun depression would be welcome

[plain wagon]

More broken irl? Wow, never know that German had fixed the transmission problem

[humble depot]

It was never a medium. It’s a heavy and has always been a heavy.

[teal yew]

hi

[grand jackal]

it was a medium in prehistoric times of WoT PC, however, it was never the case for WoTB

[stone drum]

It has 8° when using the "reality" 8.8cm l/56, the fact it has beyond 5°-6° is impressive considering the size of the kwk 43 l/71 breach.

[austere citrus]

Buff obj 260 by a lot

[heavy surge]

Oh yeah you are right, completely forgot that the irl gun wasn't the top one

[humble depot]

That’s PC. Not blitz.

[orchid gyro]

My guy this isnt WOT PC
And its a heavy in blitz so deal with it.

[grand jackal]

because both games are completely different, with tanks as main "heroes" and the most basic mechanics being the only things in common
if you start digging into specific mechanics, map layouts, tanks' parameters even slightly, everything will be completely different, thus creating different in-game environments which aren't really comparable

[burnt venture]

EU players making fun of NA when they get babied for 5k games and couldn't deal with the fact that Russians speak another language:

[celest magnet]

Its about communication and telling what tank is where

[stone drum]

Honest mistake lol, by the way don't be discouraged from using the historical gun, the Tiger 1 is still plenty competitive with it.

[stone drum]

Why does AMX m4 49 perform so poor on wr chart despite being almost identical to shark...

[nimble zodiac]

It’s pretty different from shark, especially when you consider the large hull that doesn’t feature ricochet angles for the upper plate.

For hulldown, AMX’s size limits how safely it can play

I’d go so far as to say it’s more similar to Löwe than Shark

[leaden flare]

Identical to shark ???
Am I blind ?
The tank looks nowhere near like shork
It's also having a noticeably bigger cupola
Is much bigger
I'd argue a worse hull
And most importantly less gd from what I know

[charred heron]

They both have 10 degrees gd
I would say amx is taller, and the hatch is a bit more forward than the shark, but similar sized.
And amx also have sides vulnerable to HE, longer aiming time.

Dpm and alpha is same, similar pen, and accuracy,
So yea I would say it’s pretty close

[stone drum]

It has the same gun depression lol, AMX has more dpm, more penetration, and better hp/t in exchange for worse accuracy and an arguably worse armour profile, shark has a fatter cupola, AMX has a taller, but thinner one
Looks are irrelevant.

@nimble zodiac yes, but AMX can bounce on flat ground, shark cannot. yes it is worse than shark overall, but not enough to make it the at the bottom and shark at the top.

[nimble zodiac]

This overlay shows that T54E2 does have a larger lower plate, but a much smaller profile, making it easier to mitigate its cupola weakspot over a ridge.

Not to mention that AMX's upper plate is far less resilient to prammo than T54E2.

When the majority of brawls take place with cover, on top of flat ground, Shark's advantage on the turret brings its performance home, alongside a more consistent gun.

[jade cargo]

Floppy disk#3761 has been warned.

Sui 90#9958 has been warned.

[stone drum]

It's sad when what is on paper à great tank get complètely powercrept lol. I honestly with AMX m4 49 was abit faster, but that would probably make it op.

[hearty steeple]

Or a slightly better gun(either dpm or accuracy). Haven't played it in a while but I remember it being a bit inaccurate

[real bison]

its more accurate than the Tiger 2

just that its fr*nch and therefore misses shots it shouldn't be

@stone drum only the gun handling is worse

[stone drum]

Uhh... it's not... .22/.22/.16 vs .19/.19/.01

[stone drum]

Tiger can run refined and still have better soft stats lol.

[upbeat sphinx]

too late , obj 777 v2 is coming soon and it's gonna replace it entirely

[unique scaffold]

I don’t think it will come tomorrow (or soon)

[rapid juniper]

Anyone else think that the Chi-To SPG is absolutely busted?

[upbeat sphinx]

aeson never misses 🤷

[unique scaffold]

Are you sure? Also a Russian leaker said this . Coming soon 80k for the tank guaranteed

When should we expect it?

[upbeat sphinx]

I wouldn't trust russians leakers, they might refer to the LESTA version of WOT blitz which shares nothing with our game.
anyway tomorrow either the alt proto or the Obj 277II will be released

[orchid flame]

The Smasher should be nerfed, im think it should have a little longer reload and the aiming time should be longer

[stone drum]

Lesta shares almost everything except profits.

[hollow acorn]

This tank needs to cook more in the tester. It’s not ready. Also to those who are interested, the video is very deceiving. Look up the stats, you won’t be over taking any Fv301s. Won’t sell in the state it is in. Why play this when the Tier 8 B-C offers better flanking capabilities.

[stone drum]

It's french and it's an AMX-30, expecting it to be anything except garbage is fantasy.

[hollow acorn]

Yep

[winged barn]

301er?

[main tulip]

it's possible their store is different, I know the Chinese server does their own things so

[main tulip]

777 II*
Also is it just me or does it look like basically a worse 113 for now

[unique scaffold]

It’s alt proto :/

https://youtu.be/bQIigMIiMIA

[upbeat sphinx]

Nah for me it's balanced, it will outshine the Lansen C for sure, and maybe even a bit the Rev. Let's see if the turret can pull off some ricochets or not.
Borrasque is a different playstile, not too much sense to compare. Also the alt proto has abysmal camo for some reason.

[main tulip]

@stone drum is gonna buy it anyway

[burnt venture]

The tank should be decent IMO. Basically a downtiered AMX 30 1 er. Nothing shines through by itself but a mobile platform with some armor, gun depression, and 280 alpha should be good enough. It will still lack DPM but so does every 100mm med outside of the very few exceptions.

It's more of an M4 Rev that gives up the firepower to gain some armor and mobility

[wraith trail]

he's french, what do you expect

[river valley]

Buff the Foch 155, it is inferior to the Minotauro in almost every way. Sure it has more speed, but how is that even useful when you turn so slowly that even a heavy can run circles around you? Oh and did i mention that you must turn a lot in order to aim your gun? So I think it would be good to either buff the turn rate and put AP and HEAT alpha to regular 155mm values, or buff the armor and put AP and HEAT alpha to regular 155 values. The Minotauro has almost the same DPM but has a turret, has WAY more armor, turns just as slow, and has an autoreloader with 3 shells (Foch 155 has 2). You could argue that Foch has more alpha, but it is higher by just 10 HP! And that is the difference between 130 and 155 mm guns... This all combined makes the Foch 155 a rather unpleasant experience, where you have no real strenghts, and you have quite severe weaknesses.

[humble depot]

Have you thought about not comparing it to a tank it isn’t supposed to play like? Yes, the Foch 155 could use a buff, but you shouldn’t use the Minotauro as a comparison.

[river valley]

Well, than what should i compare it to? The 263 which is just about as bad?

[charred heron]

Foch is a unique type of TD on it’s own

[upbeat sphinx]

Nah DPM is fine, 2.2k with rammer is enough, and the pen is ok too.
finally something different than an hull down heavy like we had so far this year

[stone drum]

It's just unexciting, if they had atleast kept the penetration or made it less ugly then I would be interested.

@main tulip I'm not gambling on something that's not even à real french tank, lol. They also completely killed the essence of the tank beyond any recognition imo.

@river valley the Foch isn't so much à bad tank, as it is poorly modeled (gun arc) by Wargaming, same thing for AMX-30b, if it just recieved à better model it would be significantly better.

@humble depot in my years of Saumur, I have never once seen an image of an AMX-30 that looks like that.

[humble depot]

|| Not a real French tank

I could swear that I saw a photo of the Mock-Up.

[main tulip]

@stone drum it was apparently based on this

[stone drum]

Yes and they built it like this, tell me does this look like the thing in game... WG is just milking it, albeit I would love to see this variant ingame

[humble depot]

Pretty sure that’s the 1er Prototype

[main tulip]

Those look like the 30 1er but with a taller turret. And yeah the AltProto looks horrendously Ugly, quite frankly

[stone drum]

The 1er is à terrible interprétation of à slightly later prototype with the first cupola and an earlier gun.

[main tulip]

Surely it can't be faker than Chinese, Czech, Italian, and Polish tanks

@humble depot minotauro??? Also the Standard B is actually a German tank, the Leopard Prototyp B.

[humble depot]

The Czech mediums are all real and the only fake Italian tank is the Pantera.

@main tulip I forgot the TDs.

[stone drum]

Their are alot of fake tanks

[prisma jetty]

Just because WG claims there were “blueprints” doesn’t mean they actually existed

I have found 0 evidence for any of them, so I’d you can find some from a reputable source, I’d love to see it

[humble depot]

Yeah, because there’s nothing more than what WG says about them?

There is evidence of all of them.

[tacit pelican]

The head looks like a Mandu

[frank bone]

Give the 122 mm on the IS-2, 6 degrees of gd

[stone drum]

The IS has 6°.
IS-2 1945 also has 6°

[frank bone]

Is 2 my guy

@stone drum is-2 the tier 7 chinese

[grand jackal]

I wonder if WG just forgot about this tank
it was released in pretty short time after 5.5, when WG was much more cautious with low tiers and nowadays its derp gun is worse in literally every single way than Gargoyle

[nocturne mauve]

They don’t care about it lmao

[stone drum]

Idea for AMX-30b buff:
-change the frontal storage boxes, rear exhaust manifold, range finders, light box to spaced armour.
-add 7mm thick side skirts to hull
-increase upper frontal hull thickness to 55mm
-slightly decrease cupola height
-reduce hp by 50
-increase view range by 5m (maybe 10)
-decrease standard penetration by 5mm
-decrease ap damage by 10 (340)
-decrease reload by .24s (6.6)
-increase heat pen by 13mm (308)
-increase heat damage by 10 (310)
-decrease dispersion by .018
-change handling to .12/.12/.04
-increase top speed by 4kph (66)
-increase reverse speed by 15kph (38kph)

Easily would make it amazing.

(@void siren literally nothing wrong with giving it .04 turret dispersion like pc)

[void siren]

.04 turret dispersion… no…

Decrease dispersion by .18!? That’s 0.12 dispersion

[stuck acorn]

could you stop posting those dumb AMX 30b rebalance ideas? I don't even remember how many times you posted that crap, but everytime it was dumb

[stone drum]

No

[ornate warren]

Consider it as a source of creating a new discussion, I wouldnt mind seeing this kind of stuff in discussion channels if I were you

[twilit crystal]

lol at 40 kmh reverse speed, has to be trolling

[humble depot]

Étranger is one of the few people who makes legitimately interesting and sensible suggestions here. Besides, what’s wrong with wanting to buff a terrible tank?

[stone drum]

It's not, high reverse speed is one of the very few unique characteristics of the vehicle.

[jade cargo]

Fahri#2975 has been warned.

aierschmarn N2#4189 has been warned.

[granite pebble]

Well.... Rev actually has a bit better of a turret tbh

[native folio]

Give Jpanther more side armor

[nimble zodiac]

You’re not supposed to be blocking shells with your sides

[native folio]

Tried, but dat lower front armor, i want to be like medjay

[charred heron]

Then go play a heavy tank instead 🗿

[nimble zodiac]

Just hide the lower plate and use your gun depression. You have the armor and gun to hold yourself together with, and enough mobility to get where you need.

[storm spoke]

I highly disagree with any Rev comparison. The Rev is a tank destroyer with a rapid platform and playing it as anything else is exposing your tier four hull to a sudden death

[queen geyser]

The Rev is a better tier 8 medium then most mediums on tier 8.

[stuck acorn]

it is kind of source of new discussion, but a pretty pointless one. Every single time it ends up in same way. Everybody tells him that his idea is ridiculous and dumb while he tries to pointlessly defend it. Such a discussion has no meritorical value what so ever

[grave isle]

Bolt the bird yes?

[native folio]

how tho,

[real bison]

you literally have -8 degrees of gun depression

if you dont know how to use gundep...

dont talk about a the JPanther needing anything (which it doesnt) if you dont even know how to play it because youre too used to the moronic gameplay offered by the Medjay

[native folio]

I am F2P, how get it

[main tulip]

Wasn't the Medjay free

[queen geyser]

it was

[real bison]

what has this game become

no need to utilise brainpower, or attempt to learn, let WG balance tanks for you
bots just condition new players to think that they can get away with yolo plays
skill means less and less each coming year

@native folio there is no real P2W in Blitz

[native folio]

Then, nerf P2W,

[main tulip]

???

[humble depot]

Godzilla had a stroke trying to understand this and died

[quick lichen]

What about blitz is pay to win in your eyes?

[native folio]

those premium op tanks

[quick lichen]

Such as?

Blitz is more of a “pay for advantage/grind” than winning. You can have an op tank and have no idea what you’re doing in it or have bad teams

[native folio]

then i am wanting the advantage which is always broken to be nerfed

[quick lichen]

What advantage?

Give me some examples to work with

[orchid gyro]

Having skill is a advantage
So go get gud

[grand jackal]

most of which can be earned for free using standard tools game gives everyone if you have a bit of will to save up gold

[native folio]

The good ones, only in crates

[void siren]

baa baa
Honestly, tech trees are almost EXACTLY as good as premiums

tier 8 is a horrible train wreck, but even there tech trees have power (not meds tho)

[orchid gyro]

Who told you that lol
You do know that not all crate tanks are good right 🤡

[quick lichen]

Easy

We can at least hear out what their complaints are first

[grand jackal]

also, "top premiums" like T77, Progetto, Bourrasque, Chimera, T54E2 and many others were all available directly for gold sooner or later
just the fact that something is available in crates at release doesn't mean it's gonna stay like that forever

[quick lichen]

Usually it’s $$ crates -> gold crates -> gold

[main tulip]

Name an actual tank.

[native folio]

fury

[orchid gyro]

Fury is just a collector ez8 sherman
Its not op at all.
And its not in crates

[long lily]

Honestly most "broken" premiums I can think of ,are mostly fun locked behind crates rather than pure PtW.
Aka smashers Anni,busonde etc.

Though anything else aside damm blitz nation tanks usually come for gold in the shop and through some vids you can get them.
I'm FTP and I have ton of collectors, premiums

[stuck acorn]

fury is closer to being trash than OP

[prisma jetty]

Fury is a tech tree E8 that has a slightly better gun for slightly worse mobility and turret armor

[rough sandal]

when Annihilator with gold(a tier 7 that has better avg dmg than the amx 50 120 XD)?

[quick lichen]

Fury is almost entirely the same as the standard e8

[quick lichen]

It’s still not quite direct given the team component. Certainly it’s an easier tank to play and do well in

[leaden flare]

The Prems usually have a higher wr in those stats sheets as they always come with a 100% crew and typically have top modules
I won't deny that some Prems are stronger Anni and smasher being just stupidly good but t7 is balance hell anyway as tanks like T29 and bp are beyond broken too

[quick lichen]

Premiums also have higher win rates because people are typically seal clubbing to grind credits

People are far more likely to grind in a chimera/mk1 defender than an fcm

[rough sandal]

tier 7 vs tier 9, and you wanna tell us that Annihilator is balanced? and if it is soo balanced, why Annihilator never came back for gold in the shop and always behind a paywall?

[humble depot]

You didn’t even listen to what he said, did you?

Of course he didn’t. I just realized who’s talking.

[long lily]

Nope he didn't xD

[main tulip]

No one's telling you the Anni is balanced

[rough sandal]

_Verstappen [Pramo] — Today at 5:00 PM
What about blitz is pay to win in your eyes? this is the topic, did you know it?, oh yeah i saw who is talking too, so i'd have to except that you can't read some responses on discord, @main tulip if he still thinks that there isn't p2w in this game and it's only p2g, annihilator isn't broken

[orchid gyro]

There no single point that proves that the game is p2w
You cant just buy a tank and expect to win with no skills
Its more p2p and p2g

[main tulip]

The game being almost completely impossible (imo) without premium account and at least a couple tier 8+ premiums to grind credits in does make it quite "pay to progress" imo. That being said, it's far from being pay to win, especially in tier 10 where the most popular tanks are all tech tree.

[storm spoke]

Consumables, crew skills, premium ammo and modules are pay to win. The fact that two people in a multiplayer game can queue in a similar match (here in a tank) and having their gameplay affected by meta progression they can pay to fast forward will mean than my definitively real billionaire clone and me will have 50% crew skill in our new tech tree tanks, radically changing most stats and especially two of the most relevant ones (dpm, mobility) is pay to win. Any bypass to progression that affects in-match performance is pay to win. For example, league of legends has no differences between their metaperformances apart from completely free tools you can select in matchmaking. Furthermore, the fact that you need to pay to access a bigger tanks pool for tournaments also is a hinderance to competitivity and part of a pay to win environment. LoL actually also fails that test, but other games like DotA or CS do not. All in all, I would personally say that blitz is little p2w and that the progression system is fine, except maybe the premium account part for credits. Being true f2p is very hard and I would not recommend it my-self

[quick lichen]

I never said it was balanced lol. Don’t put words in my mouth

[quick lichen]

Everything you started with can be bought with credits and aren’t pay to win. It’s pay to grind

[rough sandal]

Pay-to-win
In some games, players who are willing to pay for special items, downloadable content, or to skip cooldown timers may be able to gain an advantage over those playing for free who might otherwise hardly be able to access said items. Such games are called "pay-to-win" (abbreviated as "P2W") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play#:~:text=publisher of Fortnite.-,Pay-to-win,abbreviated as "P2W"). basically Annihilator @quick lichen you said that the game isn't p2w

[quick lichen]

I don’t consider blitz to directly be pay to win

For starters, you are completely ignoring how many “op” premiums exist and are on both teams

[orchid gyro]

But does it really give an advantage?
A good or op tank is useles if you dont know how to play it
Any consumable that gives you an "advantage" has short period of usage on the battle.
And besides, consumables can be bought by the in game currency that you win in the battle, and cooldown booster can be obtained in free containers or doing missions, not by paying them
So by your definiton everyone is a p2w player

[quick lichen]

Is an annihilator p2w in theres 2 on each team?

This whole topic is far more complicated than “I bought a tank that is really strong, therefore it’s p2w”

Is the is6 still p2w compared to 8 years ago when double is6 platoons were easy 75% win rates?

[jade cargo]

Shatzi#3761 has been warned.

[rough sandal]

the p2w isn't as strong as other online videogames, but still it's p2w, @orchid gyro the skill of the players doesn't really matter on the Annihilator if the Annihilator has higher stats on the server than all the other tier 7s(tie with Smasher) , and the consumables aren't p2w for me cause as you said you can still buy them with the credits in the game that you can actually farm(if you play premium tanks), i'm just talking about broken tanks that doesn't require skills to do lots, lots of dmg @quick lichen yes, the tank is still P2W cause in average, the tank has higher win rate Even when he fights himself so, more p2w than this, and the last thing is6 was p2w but he got obsoleted and powercrept, so there are premiums that are stronger now.

[quick lichen]

So tanks can lose p2w status?

Is an annihilator p2w if the other team has more of them?

Is it p2w in tier 8?

[orchid gyro]

"The skill doesnt really matter on ani"
So you want to say that i can camp in an ani and still win? I can go afk and still win?
Your delusional
There are strong tanks that can fight off ani and smasher
Its all about the skill
And no it isnt p2w
Having a strong tank is not equal to p2w because you have to know how to play it.
Having better stats is not always equal to being a better tank.
@quick lichen
He will ignore those questions because he cant answer them

[distant river]

Playing a tank well has a much, much bigger impact than what tank you play, and especially when there's plenty of very well performing tech tree tanks for all abilities, calling the game p2w is a little ridiculous.

Especially with all the events and offers which make any tank accessible (not necessarily cheaply) about 3 months after release when it can be accessed through gold

[rough sandal]

the tank can lose the p2w status but not the game, because for Wargaming to make a tank that surpasses the p2w of the broken tank(let's call it Annihilator 2.0), needs a more p2w tank(just look world of tanks) so ofc the Annihilator isn't p2w, but to stay competitive in the game you will need the new tank(Annihilator 2.0), and for the second time, the tank is p2w if on the server surpasses the other tanks, that in this game Annihilator has the highest dmg/wr and probably everything else, and not by like 5%, min 20% compared to the others tier 7s in the game, so you can put whatever scenario you want(against tier 10s, against abrams against spaceships) but if the tank on the average of battles performs 20% better than other tier 7s(not only tech tree, cause this have the "stock" disadvantage) but even premiums, and even good premiums, the tank is p2w cause in average it performs much better than the other tanks in the game, @orchid gyro i don't respond to you cause you are bringing such a no sense thing that works only if the game doesn't need the player to play, it's obivous if i don't play it it won't kill everybody, but that doesn't really mean anything, because even on every other videogame the p2w "materials" must be played to win, and btw since you are EU we can try to do the 1v1s Annihilator against all other tier 7s @distant river can you show me which tech tree tanks performs better than the Annihilator and when it was sold for gold after the first release?

[quick lichen]

I think your complaint is that there are op tanks

[prisma jetty]

For blitz to be p2w, there would have to be an appreciable difference in the performance of all players when using a premium tank compared to a tech tree tank. That performance difference, when looked at using tech tree tanks with the max modules and crew, just isn’t there. The skill level of the player has a much, much larger impact than the tank they are using. A good player will abuse the Annihilator to hell and back, whereas a bad player simply lacks the skill in order to abuse it.

There is also the aspect of WG giving out free gold like it’s candy. Gold ads, as crate, clan missions, events, it’s absurdly easy to get enough gold to buy any premium one wants without having to pay.

[main tulip]

Nah, a good player will just play tier 10

[quick lichen]

I had an 87% win rate in the initial release vk100 in 100 games. None of it was pay to win, it was just abusing an over powered tank

[orchid gyro]

You dont want to respond because i said something that proves your delusional, not because its nonsence
Nowhere did you point out the game is p2w, you are jsut pointing out a strong tank, that can be countered with tech tree tanks.

[distant river]

Anni crates have come for gold, I can't remember exactly when but there has definitely been a pop up offer.

And here's one example of a tech tree tier 7 that performs better. It might be useful to see that there is a roughly 5% spread in the absolute extremes of relative WR over every tank, and yet there's a roughly 40% spread in terms of player skill.

[rough sandal]

yeah that is the only p2w feature on the game, exist ofc some broken tech trees in the game but 99% they get balanced afterwards(sheridan, t100 etc) but the problem with premiums is that wargaming can't really nerf them unless with powercreep, but to sale again a tank they will need the Annihilator 2.0, @prisma jetty yes a good player can fight off the Annihilator(if the annihilator player has wifi problems) but to an item to be p2w, you can't bring me an specific scenario, because in a specific scenario everything happens(like the @orchid gyro nosense extreme scenario when the Trex eats my pc so i can't fight back) but the tank itself give on the average(yeah p2w objects can be defeated if the p2w isn't ofc too big) but you have to consider the entire server performance, and now annihilator is the best performer, @orchid gyro i proposed you the 1v1 but still you didn't accepted, so show me how a tech tree tank can beat an annihilator instead of using some delusional words told just to troll me @distant river you still didn't linked me that tool but i still see that the wr is related to the average on the tier, compare the Tiger 1 to the Annihilator values and you'll see that your theory is incorrect

[quick lichen]

Sigh.

This is the actual reality of much of tier 7 and 8

[prisma jetty]

I never brought up any in game scenarios, nor did I say a good player can fight off the anni, even though they could. Maybe try reading before responding and you might make a bit more sense

[quick lichen]

There are so many “op” premiums that they all effectively neutralize each other

And they’re so common that they are in almost every battle with substantial numbers

Tier 8 is so unbalanced… that it has become balanced

[stone drum]

tiger 1 has better stats than anni....
People going to forget tech trees have plenty of insane tanks.
53tp basically outclassed every is-clone.

[orchid gyro]

A bad player in a good tank is not an extreme scenario, its an normal scenario that happens
Ani is a best peformer because people abuse it, just like smasher. Look at how many people play it. There are tanks like tiger 1 ,t29 and black prince than can go agains ani if you know how to use them, also ironic tos ay i use delusional words just to troll you, your the one who is repeating yourself like a broken gramophone, instead of acually trying to see the points that prove you wrong.
Besides why should i 1v1 you? You seem to have no skill when you are saying "op" tanks = p2w

[distant river]

It's blitzanalysiz.com as I've said before, and it provides actual useful stats. Overall WR is influenced by the players using the tank, and as the site shows the annis playerbase is skewed towards better players making it's overall WR useless to look at. Relative WR tells you the impact the tank has, not a combination of the tank and whoever is playing it.

But still, you kinda ignored how skill has a much larger impact than any tank so I'd think about that a little more...

[leaden flare]

thats just wrong
pay to progress faster is more like it

there is a quadrillion ways to get your hands on prems collectors gold and whatsoever in blitz its insane

you easily can just grind credits on tanks with a low ace bar it just takes some skill
Tech tree offers tanks that are absurdly OP for example T29 which easily can compete with tanks like smasher or anni

once u have ur first t10 u can basically do every single event if you have the skill

@main tulip alright i can agree with that i was just bothered by the almost impossible because thats just wrong i know at least 2 people completely free to play that got top 4 and stuff like that which requires plenty of t10s etc

[storm spoke]

So as I said this time with no swearwords and no dodgy abreviations™️
Any mechanic that allows you to bypass progression thus leaving you at an advantage from unit to unit (here tanks) is pay to win. If you only progressed towards the next tanks and could bypass the grind through money it would be less (and actually 0%) pay to win. Also counterintuitively tying your credit rewards to your performances is pay to win here, since truly helpless players would completely stop progressing... lest they paid. You can always max out every tank you have with credits but it's absolutely not sound. If you bought everything with credits and had no consistent premium account, no battle pass, etc... you would be stuck in an endless credit grind which creates an actual physical time barrier. You just have so many hours in a day
Again comparing to LoL whose only meta-match differences are runes and summoner spells (and some skins with harder to see spells which is an other debate) which come and totally completely free, blitz is objectively more pay to win.
Also no you can't buy a bigger tank pool for tournaments with credits since some of the tanks were only available for some time and actually money (or gold). This is also a pay to win aspect of the game. Compared to CS, blitz is objectively more pay to win.
All in all, I'm not saying blitz is p2w, (unlike wot pc hehexd) has some undeniable pay to win aspects, which for some (like single tank crew progression) have more upsides than downsides

[main tulip]

pay to progress used colloquially is just short for pay to progress faster, the "faster" being kinda implied
it almost never means there's a barrier that you can't surpass without paying.

[granite pebble]

Homie, no tank is pay to win, I've annihilated annihilators and smashed smashers, just because someone is playing that tank doesn't mean they're any good at the game or even going to do well.

There hasn't been a single tank to power creep the chimera and it's still arguably the strongest tier 8 tank in the game, yet bad players make the tank look bad, and good players make the tank look OP.

It's almost like with OP tanks, you still have to play them properly or else you get screwed

[prisma jetty]

Believe it or not, when compared to tier 7 heavies, the Anni actually seems balanced. And the Tiger 1 is still a problem. (I’m not saying the anni is balanced, it just appears balanced compared to other tier 7 heavies.) The reason anni has a higher avg wr on here is less players + seal clubbers, compared to a tech tree tank that lots of people play because it’s the big cat. The anni, a supposedly pay to win tank, makes average-bad players lose more than a tech tree tank.

[quick lichen]

The argument for blitz to be p2w is so awful. A brand new player can buy a tier 10 after playing one battle. Is that p2w?

[jade cargo]

VK168#3972 was muted.

[drowsy plaza]

Discuss politely or don’t discuss

There is zero reason for personal attacks.

[fading zealot]

are you serious? how much each crate?

[storm spoke]

That's neither my argument nor a problem. The "problem" is same tank differences not tank by tank progression. If blitz didn't allow you to pay gold to further your pershing (actual op tank ngl) day 1 to 100% while a comparably-skilled player does not have said gold and must play 75% / 100%, but still allowed you to hop from tank to tank using cash dollars it would by all definitions be less pay to win. My argument always was "blitz has some pay to win aspects", not that blitz was pay to win. As I've said, I actually like the crew progression, when you start with a worse-than-covenanter tank and end up with your maxed out sunglasses wearing 1000% full stuffed STB, it does feel very good.
Right now, my nose is clogged. I am however not bed-ridden. I have some diseases aspects (symptoms), but I am (at least not legally lmao) not sick. I am however still more sick than my brother whose nose isn't clogged up because he didn't have to talk to the poor kiddo who was sick as possible, little Timothy really stabbed me in the back 😔

[void siren]

That’s Pay 2 progress. Everything mentioned is pay 2 progress-

While p2p is p2w, most people are thinking of p2w where the only way to win more is to pay.

Tl;dr you’re right

@quick lichen yep ya did

[quick lichen]

I believe I said initially, pay to grind

[drowsy plaza]

There are both P2A and P4A aspects to the game. P2A: pay to advance (or advance faster) and P4A: pay for advantage. However due to WG’s MM tank matching system the P4A has been reduced significantly as like tanks see like tanks.

[storm spoke]

i don't like the fact that you managed to say everything I said but in 10 times less words 😔 but thanks for doing it

[distant river]

Here's one example of it being accessible for gold, I remember it being sold differently but a quick google cant find any ss of that
https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfTanksBlitz/comments/q998g3/t7_is_forever_lost_annihilator_smasher_crates/

[fading zealot]

but i want it alone, not spending 422 dollars(so i can finally have a tier 7 Yoh tank)

[quick lichen]

Doesn’t it list each of the drop rates for the tanks?

[real bison]

https://tenor.com/view/galaxy-brain-gif-25912556

yes, 4 things that you can get for free credits is p2w

[storm spoke]

Eh, the ironic petty insult will not make you stand out. i've adressed already, you're free to read up, if you have nothing further to contribute, please don't ping me

[fading zealot]

5% for one of the tanks, but i think the Anni has the lowest between them all

[grand jackal]

and it makes no sense even after reading the first paragraph, as literally nobody plays without consumables nor gold ammo nowadays, because credits are easily achievable resource and crew can't be straight out skipped, because alongside credits/gold, it requires pretty big chunk of elite XP and if you grind that much, you probably also reached decent levels on crew skills, so it's not "pay 2 win", but rather "grind to get "advantage""

[quick lichen]

So if you know the rates, how is it a scam?

[quick lichen]

Exactly. Wotb has a far easier credit system than console or pc lol

[fading zealot]

@quick lichen found it, https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfTanksBlitz/comments/q995n0/bad_company_halloween_crates/, it was the first img for the crates, not mine opinion, i just want the Annihilator cause i like the Yoh tanks and it seems similar

[real bison]

just so you know, the chance of the Anni dropping from this is like 9% after 20 openings

at least, i think thats how the maths works out

[rocky lily]

There is no math in casino

[fading zealot]

costs what it costs

[quick lichen]

It’s still not a scam

[storm spoke]

in 20 boxes, you will have 64% to open a tank and 9.5% of having a specific one (here annihilator) so your math is correct

[river valley]

Can the Foch 155 get a better gun arc both vertically and horizontally? It feels like a worse 263 ngl... mobility is fairly good on both tanks, both tanks have poor gun arc, but 263 has actually usable armor and massive DPM, unlike Foch 155 with its below average DPM and near useless armor

[main tulip]

I agree it needs a change/buff but it's better than the 263 by far, let's be real here

I actually think the Foch has better armor than the 263 as long as you're fighting something that can't autopen the upper plate with pramo (meds and low pen heavies), and even then a lot of tanks who can pen you with pramo typically try to use standard anyway, which is a gamble. On the other hand, the 263's engine deck is impossible to miss at close range, it has a larger lower plate, and the gun depression coupled with the rear mounted gun make it even less flexible.

You shouldn't be dogfighting meds in the Foch. You still can and will be shot at by meds without being in close range combat with them. Being circled only becomes a problem when you get into facehugging/ramming territory, which is the (easily avoidable) situation that I'm suggesting it shouldn't be in. Although it can be tempting at times due to the weight and high straight line speed

You also conveniently left out the fact that the Foch has better accuracy despite being a higher caliber, with much better premium penetration, and significantly faster acceleration (the engine feels very powerful)

[river valley]

Meds can run circles around you super easily with that 30 deg/s rotation. And how is the argument that meds cant pen you frontally even valid if you shouldnt fight em

[real bison]

i really do feel like they could have done the Foch 155 better tbh

the autoloader gets a slightly faster intraclip, but the clip reload increases by the same amount
the real changes would be to the single shot, where it would be made far more comfortable to play, i.e better gun arc, better gundep, and better soft stats as well

this would probably (?) make both guns viable and keep gameplay against the Foch 155 interesting, as you have to account for what is essentially 2 different tanks depending on what gun they're using

oh and can someone tell me why the Foch 155 reverses slower than the Maus or E100?

[grand jackal]

I wonder if there's any chance for changes to Sheridan Missile, as after 9.1 standard Sheridan got changed ("buffed") to arguably better state than before while both tanks were supposed to be identical, just one with missiles and other without

also, this tank has no ranks, which makes sense, but is also pretty sad at the same time

[stone drum]

Your forgetting foch reversés at à pathetic 13kph versus obj 263 reversing at 20kph (even though both obj's should only reverse at 12kph and foch at 19kph) you also failed to mention that although 263 has worse dispersion it has considerably better dispersion modifiers.

[main tulip]

it does, but Foch >>> 263 nonetheless. The gun might feel underwhelming in many aspects, but you can usually still trade 1000 damage for 4-600. The 263 on the other hand struggles immensely to get into positions where it can use its DPM.

[stuck acorn]

I think it would be logical to give same buffs to sheridan missile as the sheridan, but i guess they just wanna leave it alone

[grand jackal]

why even bother comparing two totally different tanks

[stone drum]

Their isn't a reason I know of to explain it's terrible reverse speed and the tanks engineering is certainly not at fault. All AMX-50/AMX M4 variants were equipped with the 5f/2r gearbox which allowed 51.5/18.kph top speeds and neutral steering.

[unique scaffold]

T57 Heavy Tireless is too over powered. Please consider rebalancing and reducing to a single shot rather than multi shot tank

[uncut owl]

It would all be 10,000 times better if the radar actually worked like it was supposed to, and shot calls your more direct. But I deal with non pens on tanks that have little red showing. Or my favorite the good ol reloading 2 seconds 1, and poof disappear, and I have experienced hole teams going poof. Best part yet is the great red wall that just pooft right in front of you.

[drowsy plaza]

WG doesn’t use historical data on most tanks. I mean some Russian guns can hit things 😉

[stone drum]

WG doubling russian tanks reverse speed

remember they adjusted AMX-50 100s weight and turret armour to align with the actual values for some reason, so they do use a certain level of historical "inspiration".

also WG is à worse offender imo, they have the foch reverse speed at 12kph too even though they know it's wrong.

[glad turret]

I think it needs to be worse SMV-CC-64 , this trough has better armor than 9 levels, it can easily fight with heavy tanks, even be a breakthrough tank, it cannot be destroyed if it got up from cover, and the cannon deals 420 damage colossal damage by modules, needs to be nerfed.

If you think I'm a noob no, I'm an above-average player.

[plain wagon]

I would like to neft its turret armor to be penetratable by premium shells like Minotauro and CC

[rich oracle]

Can someone explain to me why the badger and obj 287 version 4 are balanced. They both have near impenetrable frontal armour, and decent traverse speed and average speed. Though obj has a hatch to shoot. Same for the minitaro btw. I don't own these tanks. For is weegee selling stronk tanks for money again 😢

[nimble zodiac]

Badger is just OP

Obj. 268/4 is not OP at all, it's just a bully for its driver and their enemies

[stone drum]

T54e1 honestly needs something. maybe either some more alpha, armour, or hp, but currently it's abit too squishy for what it is.

[orchid grove]

It should get its 350 alpha back

[stone drum]

That would probably work. Bad armour + low hp + bad mobility + bad stabilization isn't exactly the best combo.
It can work, but it requires alot of "finesse".

[leaden flare]

you forgot no HE
which with standrad Bs existence is a joke

[stone drum]

Yeah the lack of HE and shell cap are also questionable.

[young laurel]

It's not a balance idea but more of a suggestion: make the concealment of the legendary paints 4% instead of standard 3%

[orchid grove]

Standard B HE is possibly the most overrated thing in the game. The payoff just isn't worth the risk to even bother shooting it most of the time. A lot of the HE'able targets have spall, and even if you do pen the HE, it's only 50 more than the base alpha, so even the slightest added risk of a bounce makes it not worth shooting in the majority of cases

[leaden flare]

i meant standard b as another tank mainly a med with an autoloader that not only has higher base dmg of 350 but also 105mm he pen on top
while t54e1 is just there being a huge slow med that doesnt get any he at all for some reason

i wasnt judging standard Bs he as smth extraordinary
back when i played that thing it was utterly insane but that was back when it got released

[humble depot]

You do realize that camo improves the concealment of different classes of tanks by different amounts, yes?

[orchid grove]

I don't really see the lack of an HE shell as a crippling weakness for the T54E1. The big problem of course is that it just offers nothing of value over something like a Skoda T50, which is way faster, has more accuracy, and then things like view range and pen to add insult to injury.

Really, T54E1 desperately needs a firepower advantage over the faster autoloader meds. And giving it back the 350 alpha it lost years ago would help a lot with that

[stone drum]

That and moderately better stabilization would strongly benefit it. (like .18/.18/.08)

[burnt venture]

One thing though is that 54E1 has a 105mm. So does the tier X batchat, but they only get 310 alpha because they're "autoloaders". Yet autoreloaders with 105s which are arguably way more flexible get 350x3 no problem while also having the highest DPM when single shooting an empty clip.

Well balanced for sure

[mystic gorge]

It’s as I always say:
“The 268v4 was designed by 50%ers for 50%ers”

The minute it comes against someone who can aim it gets crippled since it’s super limited with how it can use its armor and the gun is inaccurate. Come against any heavy with 340 heat pen and it’s a goner

[real bison]

more like designed for >=48%ers

the biggest crutch tank of all time

[twilit crystal]

Basically compared to the skoda t50 the t54e1 gets moderately better clip reload which doesnt matter that much in the grand scheme. It also gets the shell reload consumable which is nice but OTOH the tank also needs the speed boost to even hit 45 reliably but the tank is also one of the easiest tanks to track so you need double repair kit. Skoda and t54e1 have similar armor and are fairly large but the skoda just goes so much faster. The small advantages the t54e1 has dont make up for the skodas huge mobility advantage.Infact you could even run the batchat 25 ap which is the same story. Bit worse reload and also a slightly longer interclip but way faster and more camo. Standard b has a bit worse dpm than all but autoreloaders effective dpm is more advantageous and it gets 350*3 which means a 1050 instead of 930. Standard b also has mobility comparable to skoda as well. Along with that t54e1s gun handling is china style with great aim time but garbage OTM so it cant snapshot. Its pretty clear the t54e1 needs 350 times 3 with the same dpm. edit: @orchid grove i didnt even realize the t54e1 has terrible view range for a medium.

[burnt venture]

it has terrible view range because it really is a mobile heavy tank labeled as a med lol

[twilit crystal]

except doesnt get the armor/hp and barely gets more camo

[upbeat sphinx]

Honestly I would not mind it to be changed in an heavy tank, so that he gets hp for some mobility, and maybe a tad bit more of armour even though even now turret is somewhat tricky to pen for 230 ap

[storm spoke]

The T54E1 has no armour whatsoever indeed. Even tier VIII can pen it frontally in my experience. You always need to wiggle and go back and forth, potentially missing shots. I however don't think it needs buffs - the actual configuration of the tank allows it to take many advantageous positions to shoot in - I've found myself doing better in the E1 than most t9 mediums. However the fact that it still has no HE to punish greedy rhms and skorpions is beyond me, I've switched to he so many times before shooting and asked myself why it wouldnt work

[stone drum]

It doesn't have much more mobility to give... lol

[twilit crystal]

Again 350*3 with 2800 dpm is absolutely fine. Buff the pen upto 240 and 285. Basically k91 that sacrifices the armor in exchange for faster burst and a bit more mobility

[stone drum]

That would be nice

[drowsy plaza]

Yes the Autoloader heavy tank with the 100mm gun that got its alpha buffed, while the 105mm autoloaders said what the ….

[wanton marsh]

Increasing jagdpanzer.E100 armor

[main tulip]

Jageroo should get the same mobility buff that the E100 got in 9.1 and it's golden imo

[azure marten]

Buff superpershing’s accuracy

[twin egret]

WG accidentally put the engine backwards

[stone drum]

Jageroo doesn't need any buffs...

[neon lion]

guys is it good if i buy the pack for 17k gold whit amx and projetto t8?

[ancient rampart]

??

[tidal crag]

Nice tank balance discussion

[jade cargo]

Warning logged for Maciej#5563. They may not have gotten a DM.

Warning logged for tombi#8478. They may not have gotten a DM.

[drowsy plaza]

All, there is no reason that personal attacks, stat shaming or other negative comments need to be levied at other posters here. If a player brings up a specific issue about a tank, it can be addressed. Going into #vehicles-discussion to help give positive ideas on play style modification is also encouraged. Trolling or rude behaviors will result in escalating Mutes and Bans.

[main tulip]

It has a lower winrate on blitzstars than your beloved Foch, and every heavily armored TD except the 263 which I argued was horrible the other day

What even is "relative" winrate

[stone drum]

Continue...

[storm spoke]

The chimera deserves a nerf. Its arguably the single best tank in the game, with access to two unique consummables and one provision. There is nothing the tank can't do and it is unreasonably strong. Its weight and mobility even makes it a proper ramming tank. I've bought the tank myself and I find myself hardpressed to not be top damage every single game without really trying and I am not that good at the game. I think nerfing its gun depression by some two points would be a step in the right direction or at least a good attempt at it
Btw in the same pack (currently $25 on the wotb premium shop (website) would recommend, both tanks come with full equipments too) there was the Škoda T27 which is also dense fun, especially in mad games, however when you compare the two it is night and day. :/

[dire quarry]

why is tiger l's front grille overlaps the armor highlighting? its very trolling.
most tanks that have legendary skin gets transparent while aiming at it, why not the tiger l ?!

[twilit crystal]

Relative winrate is adjusted for a players win rate when they play the tank. A lot of tanks might be played only by unicums. The issue with this though is matching mm . The tvp is massively popular but usually there is 1 on each side which means only 1 can win

[quick lichen]

It’s not fast, has bad dpm and rof for a tier 8 medium and has fairly weak armor. It isn’t that good if the other team thinks instead of feeding it free damage

[ebon lynx]

Funny I started to enjoy that tank when I was close to get the T57.

@quick lichen I would very much get the 122TM instead of the Chimera.

[storm spoke]

Its fast enough to outpace the heavy meta, it has way better effective dpm than a lot of tank, it can hit on cooldown most of the time because of depression x disproportionately small turret, rof doesnt matter with huge alpha and is moot. Not tank is that good if the other team thinks instead of feeding free damage, at least not in random queue

@ebon lynx yeah it gets better when you crew it 100% indeed

[stone drum]

It how well people do in the tank vs how they do in the tier.

[quick lichen]

So a medium shouldn’t be faster than heavies? Rof and dpm do matter. If I see a t49 shoot and I’m in a medium, I’m rushing it for the next 15 seconds. On paper it’s less than average. In practice it’s very effective when used correctly. Doesn’t mean it needs a nerf

[humble depot]

Not the channel bud

[storm spoke]

Well that's a strawman if i've ever seen one. I will simply politely ask you to please not ping me lest you have moderation stuff thank you

[nimble zodiac]

Hold on what's the strawman he brings up? The medium that should outpace the heavies? If so, how else does a medium "outpace" the heavy meta?

[main tulip]

I think he's calling him a strawman in reference to his status as a mod

"2. a person regarded as having no substance or integrity.
'a photogenic straw man gets inserted into office and advisers dictate policy'", the "office" in this case being a moderator

[nimble zodiac]

When did he stand on his role to make a point 💀
We’re all on the same battlefield here

[remote oriole]

Look up the logical fallacy strawman

Anyways, the Chimera definitely is op by medium tank standards. The dpm for this alpha and accuracy is just criminally high, the mobility is low end for mediums but exceptional for heavies, so really that means workable, the armour is trollish especially in combination with the gun depression and reverse speed, and the camo is actually good.

Like the individual statistics may not seem that outlandish, but the combination really sets it apart and makes it one of the three best mediums at tier eight. It definitely deserves a nerf as much as 70% of the heavies

[quick lichen]

Great counter argument😂

[jade cargo]

Maciej#5563 was muted.

Ika#0972 has been warned.

[drowsy plaza]

I’d argue the Chimera is only over performing due to most players not knowing how to counter it. The turret is worse than the T-34-2/3, the WZ-122-TM, and the STG. Unlike the STG it doesn’t have the mobility to rotate out of conflict easily, and the lack of a high pen Prammo like the T-34-2/3 and WZ-122-TM really makes it tough against tier 9 heavies. Plus the aim time is painful when trying to deal with quick exposures from players who know how to exploit it. It does excel at clobbering tier 7’s and the average Blitz player in 8 and 9 who don’t understand how to counter it. Yes it definitely could do with a bonk from the Nerf Bat, but there are a ton of other tanks ahead of it that I would bonk first.

[real bison]

id like to mention that only 5 tech tree mediums can pen a Chimera's turret, when its not using enhanced armour, with standard

if it uses enhanced armour, that number cuts down to 3

its not the Chimera that is overly strong, but that other tier 8 MTs are weak

[remote oriole]

In highly competitive gameplay the Chimera is not quite as potent, but still fairly good (just because of the alpha and gun depression), however highly competitive gameplay is not what we are facing in randoms

[storm spoke]

What other tanks would you nerf first? In this tier

[stone drum]

why not just remodel the chimera with a much weaker amour profile. and nerf the reload to 15-17s

@main tulip, honestly I would just buff medium equipment, and appropriately nerf certain tanks to keep the status quo.

[main tulip]

Just buff the other tier 8 meds and it's fine. 240 alpha on 88/90mm meds universally with the same reload, slightly better pen on the ones that need it. Some of them need better dispersion on the move as well.

I don't think there's a single tier 8 med equipped with a 90mm thats overperforming, so this change is fine imo. There's also a weirder and not really talked about issue where the alpha jump from 90mm to 105mm for tier 8-9 meds is absolutely gargantuan, to the point where I was able to perform insanely well in meds that are terrible on paper (like the M46 Patton) by just brain dead trading against tier 8s. Easiest 70% winrate tank of my life

[quick lichen]

It’s a tank that’s easy to abuse the positives while hiding it’s weaknesses. So many players are happy to try and trade shots with you and allow you the extra time to reload for it and even if they pen, you have more alpha than most of the guns shooting at you so it’s a net positive

[quick lichen]

Much of tier 8 is balanced by the fact that there are so many strong/op tanks to play. A shark and a 252u situationally hold an advantage over each other, a defender mk1 can out hull down a chimera but poking 1 shot each is all chimera, wz td has the best gun in tier 8 but is killed in three shots etc

You can’t balance all of tier 8 unless you commit to completely overhauling the entire thing. Either you nerf premiums (lol not happening) or you buff all the bad premiums and most of the tech tree. No matter what you do, the top echelon of tanks is probably 10-15 tanks deep and then there’s sub classes under that. Nerfing a few tanks doesn’t fix it

[humble depot]

Or, make it a heavy, nerf the speed, and remove Reticle Calibration.

[velvet beacon]

Some love to the Wz Blaze, now, imo its pretty decent already, good camo, strong gun, pretty bouncy angles in its armour but it doesnt hold up to other tanks at its teir well, so what do i think needs to be improved? I think it should get 5% extra camo and 7% more after firing, as well as the reticle aiming consumable, as well as .1 less dispersion, this would be a complete buff, but maybe in trade off you lose 5-10m view range and 1km/h of reverse speed

[heavy surge]

Wow, 1km reverse speed debuff, incredible

[main tulip]

The DPM needs to be improved

[stone drum]

Not to be mean, but I can't agree with that.
Remember people bought à medium not à heavy.

[storm spoke]

I do not think removing options to tanks is the way to go. Many people who bought the tank and play it (and correctly so) as a td using reticle would be unecesserily disapointed

[velvet beacon]

It needs a buff overall, thats why it should only have a slight trade off,

@main tulip it doesnt need dpm to be honest, its the closest thing we have at T7 to the grille, it needs accuracy and camo, and with its 122 it has some stopping power but doesnt need super high dpm

[main tulip]

Nah the DPM is abysmal for a tier 7 TD. The Helsing and T-34-2G FT have 20% and 30% more DPM respectively, both with the same alpha, and we don't even talk about the ISU-122S. The reload is barely even a second faster than the IS and IS-2 heavies, heavies who have DPM as one of their weaknesses. On a TD, that reload is plain unacceptable. It's not like the gun is even that great in other areas, having poor accuracy and average penetration. You compare it to the grille, but the grille does have insane dpm, insane accuracy, and insane standard pen. Heck, tanks like the Foch and Foch 155 have been lamented recently for losing DPM, but even those don't dip into the lower end of heavy tank DPM like the Blaze does

[novel relic]

I honestly believe the t-44 derp option should be more fitted to be capable of actually fighting other meduims such as chimera, wz 122tm and such. The chimera I believe has a 460 avg shot, with almost perfect accuracy, so I don't see why the t44 should have to suffer so badly gun wise for a weapon that only does 400.

[stone drum]

The derp is supposed to be unusable. Honestly the only reasonable thing in my opinion would be to either give it the IS-5 gun (with 1400 shell velocity, 221 apcr, and 270 heat), or the bl-9.

[novel relic]

Yeah its just, why make it a thing if it isn't supposed to be used.

[burnt venture]

Blaze is by far the best handling 122mm you can get on a tank at tier 7, and it also has EIGHT degrees of gun depression on a partial turret, and it has medium tank mobility. It doesn't need more DPM because it gets shots where none of the other TDs you mentioned can.

It's fine, there's worse tanks at tier 7 tbh.

It's just that NPCs still fall for dumb "Chinese TD = bad" stigma, which hasn't been the truth for like a couple years now after most of them got some pretty significant buffs

[main tulip]

It's only the best handling 122 because the other tanks that carry them are also trash, tbh. At lower tiers, the opportunity cost in gun handling and DPM tends to be extremely high just to gain a little bit of alpha, so they're ultimately just not worth it. I think literally every tier 7 with a 122mm would be better off if they just swapped their gun for the Jagdpanther's, for example, even if it meant +2 seconds of reload. Turret aside, the Blaze's gun is easily the worst on any tier 7 TD, the DPM really sinks it that much. There's no world where having decent-ish gun handling, a 90 degree turret, and medium mobility in a straight line make up for having no armor, no hitpoints, a rear mounted turret, heavy tank pen on a TD, and worse DPM than the majority of heavy tanks at the same tier.

Of course there are worse tanks at tier 7, but the Blaze is at best a C- tier tank, personally I would say worse.

Also this is coming from someone who loves the tier 8-10 Chinese TDs

[novel relic]

I personally don't like the blaze all that much, literally down to the fixed turrent.

[burnt venture]

It still doesn't deserve buffs.

400 alpha Tier 7 TDs overall don't have higher pen, that's just the nature of 122mm guns at tier 7. Helsing, 122-44, ISU-122S, all have the same 175mm pen. Only the T-34-GFT is really the outlier here. The pen tradeoff is because of the alpha output. And the blaze trades DPM for the gun depression, turret, and mobility combo which frankly nothing else has at this tier.

The tank is no Helsing or JPanther, but certainly still has a huge flexibility advantage over other TDs. And certainly there are other TDs, like SU-100M1, AMX AC 46, AT-7, Vindicator, that are even more of a tragedy.

It's just a tier 7 TD that's worth forgetting, which is a LOT of tier 7 TDs.

[quick lichen]

You add thinking emojis to what I say yet offer zero solutions of your own. That’s funny

[main tulip]

You seem to have missed the part where I argued that everything with a 122mm at tier 7 is bad due to the way they decided to balance them. Honestly, I think a good change would be to lower all of their alphas to 380 or 370, so the guns can just be a little bit more balanced, as opposed to having higher alpha than an E100 tier for tier at whatever exorbitantly high price each one of them pay

[stone drum]

AMX AC honestly isn't terrible after it recieved countless buffs. Only thing it's missing Is the full 232mm of pen, lol.

[main tulip]

I honestly liked the at7 as well

well, skill issue on my part I guess, but I hated playing all of them

[granite pebble]

Hey, the Vindicator is at least a funny high alpha TD that has somewhat trolly armor, and really good gun handling while having enough pen to not need to fire premmo too often.

Plus it's hilarious in any gamemode that boosts it's damage

[stone drum]

Lol, imagine if vindicator got an alpha buff.

[granite pebble]

It deserves some kind of buff for how weird it is

[stone drum]

Just give it a 17cm gun with only HE.

[velvet beacon]

Its a very unique tank, so why not exploit that, as i said, buff its dispersion (not aim time) and increase camo potential

[twin egret]

If only WG sold certificate parts (as in more frequently)

[storm spoke]

yeah cause it was interesting and you might not be too far off the truth

[ebon lynx]

I don't think the T-44 deserves the better 122mm guns, It's pretty garbage but I think it is there for any reason other than being a good option.
After all, premiums and the chinese MTs are there for that.

[stone drum]

@ebon lynx
Mate it still wouldn't be good, remember it has 1400 dpm. Stg with full prammo without rammer still has more dpm. It's completely reasonable.

[glad turret]

nerf SMV-CC-64
The armor in the turret under all roundings, corners, etc. is 415mm, tanks of level 10 will not be able to penetrate it

[midnight linden]

And why are you shooting at the corners of its turret?

[lime lantern]

Bro why the lkpz m41 90 have a worst engine power? Is more worst than ru 251, this tank really need some engine power

[prisma jetty]

It has much better terrain crossing so it gets more effective Hp/t than the RU

[stone drum]

Honestly pudel could use either slight better armour or slightly better top speed.

[stuck acorn]

There are already 120 tanks in T8 which is way above 20% of tanks in the entire game and maybe half of those could be considered as well balanced. It is no longer solvable by nerfing few most overpowered tanks or even worse - buffing all the others.

At this point we need a whole tier rebalance (preferably they should adjust some T7 tanks as well to not increase the gap between tiers too much). Premiums also need to be included into it. WG knew what they are doing when they kept introducing overpowered tanks and avoided responsibility for that by adjusting them to overall standard. Now they are the ones that need to deal with this whole mess they created

[grand robin]

This seems to be one of the problems, in my view, the balance between tier is skewed. If you look at one of the medium lines that start at t5 and go to t 10, at t5 tanks start at about 600hp. HP goes up roughly 250 -300 HP per tier, and there is a similar increase for DPM. which mean the greatest gap is between t5 and t6. But the new players in t5 tanks are forced to play against t6 tank that total out match them in every way. I quit the game twice because of this . Why punish new players by making them compete against better players in much better tanks?

[stuck acorn]

you are absolutely right. Balance between tiers at all low tiers is completly screwed. It's just not the topic of the current discussion.

Even great players with tens of thousands of battles and good stats struggle while getting an uptier while playing tanks below T6 if they aren't driving an absolute best tank at it's tier. It is an another thing that should be fixed ASAP

[midnight linden]

I misinterpreted them saying they were shooting at the corners of the turret (whilst it was hull down) due to me having the intellect of an average blitz player, but indeed, the CC64 is quite busted (along with the 53TP)

[stone drum]

I doubt WG would ever do a whole tier rebalance that included premiums. I doubt even more that it would turn out well.

[stuck acorn]

i doubt it as well, but it doesn't change the fact that at this point it's only solution that could bring back T8 to a reasonable state

[unique scaffold]

unbalanced since 2015™

[stone drum]

The game is at the point WG should probably get some specialists to come in and help them rebalance the entire game.

[remote oriole]

Speshulist 1, at your service 😉

[void siren]

Here come the specialists from wot pc to help improve the game

“Improve”

[stone drum]

Honestly if WG took the top 1% of players and brainstormed I could see potentially good ideas.

@velvet beacon note I said "potentially good ideas".

Also the majority of players do not understand what is better for the game anymore than WG, actually the average player doesn't have a clue. You would probably see the T95, tiger II, grille, and 183 get buffed and skilled based mediums, lights, and anything french fast with dpm getting nerfed.

[velvet beacon]

Nah nah, thats a terrible idea, you need the majority of the population to agree

[prisma jetty]

The majority of the population loses more than they win...

[obtuse sentinel]

Foch actually is right. WG has been catering to the “majority” and look how that turned out. Heavy tanks getting a massive amount of HP. The Tiger line getting buffed to the point where it’s more of a medium with armour , HP and DPM. This is literally the outcome of catering to players who play poorly and you want them to continue on that path?

[void siren]

Vk 45.02 A*

@velvet beacon the he changes suck.

Also, wot changes literally are just improving the game to the level of blitz, which is funny

[velvet beacon]

its better the a minority, thats how WOT got HE changes, cree changes, like yeah it aint good but it aint bad either, and its better then a select group of people

[obtuse sentinel]

55-65% WR players are who WG should be getting opinions and feedback from. They fundamentally understand the game and are able to play it well, but are not skilled enough to play the game at a competitive level. WG should’ve continued to balance tech tree tanks based on WR since there is an established player base that use these tanks frequently. But time and time again, Wargaming have shown that they aren’t interested in creating a balanced game and have decided to make heavy tanks the dominant class in the game at the expense of other tank classes. Look at the pro league for all regions. What tanks are used? Do you see medium tanks? tank destroyers? Or light tanks being used outside of niche situations? The obvious answer is you don’t see anything outside of heavy tanks because that’s clearly what the majority want. A brain dead game with idiot proof heavy tanks.

[stone drum]

But over-catering to skilled players, ie giving unicum or already amazing players even more busted/broken tanks nobody else can get like on pc is also not a good philosophy, skilled gameplay must be rewarded, even if it comes from less than reputable sources.

@void siren dude the medium meta is glorious, fast paced, aggressive, fun gameplay that blitz was always meant to be about.

[void siren]

To be fair, heavy tank meta is the most healthy out of all the horrible ways it could’ve gone.

Anything else would’ve been… something…
Mt meta: god no
Lt meta: incapable of self sufficiency without effective support for lt, or it’s just ascended broken
Td meta: stagnation

[ancient rampart]

??

[jade cargo]

DVtanker#4201 has been warned.

[stone drum]

In the case of the AMX-50 100 they increased the weight to the historical amount, Buffed the lower turret ring to historical amounts (for some unknown reason, considering it was a different version of the turret that has 230mm on the front), but basically it was WG balancing something seemingly for "historical" reasons, strange ik.

[void siren]

I agree - only concern is that it seems like a difficult see-saw to balance without it falling over into one of the many focused metas… like speed, lol pen, and armor.

[twin egret]

I dunno, i've seen players here ask for ridiculous buffs/nerfs to the most undeserving of tanks

[main tulip]

I think LTs should be niche tanks that aren't meta for anyone tbh, or only used in comp due to being teamwork based. Your so-called unicum tanks should be a certain group of meds instead

Or at least the way you worded it, you made it sound like LTs would be strictly better than meds for very skilled players, which sounds like a dumb approach imo especially considering how few LTs there are

[stone drum]

I think he was trying to say light tanks are for skilled players and shouldn't be tuned for your average blitz npc, like Vickers, T100lt, and sheridan.

[main tulip]

imo his message looks like there is a very linear transition from heavies -> lights, with regards to skill floor and ceiling. I think this is a very restrictive and black-and-white approach, as it implies that pros should be incentivized to play lights over other classes. Though my argument is a bit of an emotional one, because I hate how lights tend to be fake tanks/ones that saw very limited service and frankly are horrendously ugly, so I much prefer meds and heavies for non-gameplay reasons, and would rather have lights be out of the meta as much as possible.

In an ideal world lights would be a more supportive class, but since that's not really possible in blitz, lights will usually just be either better or worse meds (case by case), and I would rather them be the latter.

[leaden flare]

It's not 5k games against bots it's 5k games against new players the bot games are down to 500 and apply till t7 you might meet them at t8 when top tier but I've tested till t8 and there I didn't get anymore bots and my ACC is still sub 100 games I think

[stone drum]

Ehh light tanks are generally no more real or less than the other classes. Actually light(er) tanks tend to see the most extensive service tbh.

[main tulip]

I was thinking about tier 10 in general. Of the tier 10 lights, only the Sheridan saw service (and even then it's the prototype of the real Sheridan), bat chat was a prototype, T-100 and Vickers are fake/frankenstein tanks, and I don't know anything about the WZ. On the med side, T-62A, M48 Patton, AMX 30b, and Leopard 1 saw service. Object 140, FV4202, and STB are real prototypes. Ultimately, none of the tier 10 lights have any emotional pull in the slightest, in the way that Tiger and Sherman lines attract newer players. Most of the fake tier 10 heavy tanks at least look really badass, can't say the same for the lights. And as I said before, it's a really small pool of tanks for lights, so it would result in a really small pool of "ideal" tanks for unicums if you target them like Synx suggested.

[main tulip]

that makes sense, it was just your first message with the vertical progression format that made it feel like you were advocating for a strict linear progression where the roles are reversed and lights suddenly become the comp meta

[cedar root]

Хуесосы

[rain reef]

Skill issue, when playing T110E3 ALWAYS KEEP YOUR OPPONENTS FRONT, if you angle you will show the whole weak side behind the tracks of the tank

[full token]

He would’ve been penned through the front anyway. Has to hide the lower plate to not get penned

[hollow acorn]

The Wz-114 needs a armor/driver/fuel rearrangement buff. It can’t side scrape. The driver always dies and if it’s not the driver it’s the gas tanks that catch on fire. It really has issues. I thought I was going nuts when I kept getting a dead driver. So i took a break. I watched some videos on it and realized I was not the only one experiencing terrible performance. The tank feels cursed 👾

[stone drum]

We don't even know how it is arranged, as WG does not provide that info, but Chinese tanks are reknown for weak modules + fuel tanks. The best thing is too run protective kit + équipement.

[hollow acorn]

I have ran kits before but it doesn’t seem to make a difference. The tank just needs to be fixed. The fuel tanks are somehow always hit. 🔥

[main tulip]

It's not meant to be played with the hull exposed

[civic zenith]

The more I see Kpz70 the more I think it should get tungstens, does anyone agree ?

[worldly nexus]

[humble depot]

No. It’s already a decent tank. I don’t want a heavium with 550 alpha running around hitting enemies with Tungsten.

[civic zenith]

It's not that fast, and the cupola is so big

[rancid garnet]

Super consumables need to be drasticly changed as they are unhealthy for the game rn

[ancient rampart]

I don’t agree
Improved Gear oil and a base penetration buff will help the tank out much more than tungsten
I would also prefer AP over APCR as standard ammo

[frank bone]

I think the Kpz 70 should be a tier 10 tank.

The Kpz 70 is a MBT and it doesnt show that on battle now.

My suggestion to balance this tank, is to remove it from tier 9 to tier 10, give it 2450 base HP.

Give it 30 mm more fronthull armour
Give it 12 mm more frontturret armour
Give it 8 or 9 degrees of gd
AP pen: 252
HEAT pen: 330

And increase the HE dmg from 640 to 700

Dpm 2500 base

Keep the mobilty and everything else as it is

[stone drum]

No, honestly kpz-70 just doesn't belong in blitz.

[wicked quest]

Doing this would be an even worse disgrace to the Kpz

[wicked quest]

Kpz should have been a heavium and the first proper one. In reality Kpz is pretty poorly armored with some pilots having 250-350 mm effective turret fronts and even less in the hull with pretty much absolutely no armor in the sides or rear and the turret sides. It should have been a paper heavy with the speed of a medium and a respectable gun

Idk why this just sent now

[ancient rampart]

One of the reasons I suggest improved gear oil for it
It would help it out in the speed department where tanks like the K-91 and 60tp have no issues keeping up
And a base pen increase will just help it out in general

[real bison]

because youre not meant to sidescrape in a 114.

you use the -9 degrees of gundep instead against mediums on the medium side and blast one for 460, then retreat back down your ridge

[civic zenith]

Kpz70 is really good looking, it has nice alfa, but there is something missing, being a T9 is a good point to face T8 but against T10 its meh

[ancient rampart]

It just needs a bit more pen to help deal with the heavily armored tanks in Tier 10 without having to spam HEAT

[wicked quest]

I’d rather it be in tier 10 where it belongs it makes no sense why it’s a tier 9

[stuck acorn]

democracy is not always a good choice

[upbeat sphinx]

are you ready to enjoy full yolo tvp in 10.0?
get ready for 7vs7 autoloaders

[fading crescent]

4005 TVPs Carro's and t57s

[twilit crystal]

T57s reload fast enough and are too slow to cause a major issue

[stone drum]

Honestly if foch 155 just had the same gun movement limits as the tier 9, 560+ alpha, decent reverse speed, it would actually be a good tank and not artificially, infuriatingly inflexible.

[night thunder]

Actually yeah, i never thought about it now but the fochs awful handling comes from its gun arc being as stiff as a cardboard 🗿

[stone drum]

The gun handling and accuracy aren't even inherently bad. The aimtime and dispersion are actually very good. Just you have to constantly re-aim due to no gun arc or gun depression giving the impression of garbage accuracy.

[night thunder]

Yeah thats what i meant

[frank bone]

I hate this new update

[fickle light]

I still hope for WG to undo their "rework" on Foch 155 and Foch. Foch was amazing and 155 was ok, i dont see how it make sense to completely wreck both at the same time

[ornate warren]

155 was a fun vehicle thanks to its unique gun , now since it doesnt have anything different to offer, theres not really much of a reason to play it constantly imo

[unkempt jay]

Free damage but no problem it fine.. but Please one year i tell that i’m coming back for that… More DPM on Amx 30b please +4600 ranked you loose all 1v1 medium fight.. i shot first on leopard and 0 miss i loose because dpm 🥹🥹🥹

[stone drum]

What?

[jade cargo]

𝕋𝓚O̷𝙶_2̶0̶0̶9̶#3790 has been warned.

[idle osprey]

Then where do I type it? to me the 3 d module is supposed to look like a tank

[brave rose]

470* but the armor on the 114 doesn't hold up properly in a side scrape so shouldn't be relied on

[obtuse sentinel]

This is an eyesore to read... Care to reitterate in proper English this time around?

[brave rose]

He come back to play when 30 not blue punching bag

[unique scaffold]

T110E4 Needs more cupola Amor

[scenic apex]

It really doesn’t
But WG has decided to buff it anyway

[stuck acorn]

it won't change a lot anyway, other than you are no longer going to get penned by 183 with hesh there reliably

[idle osprey]

Did y’all buff the löwes armor nerf it
Also buff the T95’s hacht just got destroyed whitin 1 minute by some light tank that was standing right in front of me

[nimble zodiac]

Lowe is fine .-.

Granted, I liked it better before the turret was made less troll

[prisma jetty]

Oh no, this super heavy with a solid turret kept its solid turret!

Also, for the T95, work around the hatches lol. They’re a weak point to keep it from being impenetrable from the front

[idle osprey]

It might sound like I’m asking for too much now but the tracks really sucks on the T95 for every shot I get at my tracks I get tracked not really that fun since every light tanks track only get damage modular when I shoot at the track I know that the T95 has double tracks for easier traction and control but they don’t work tbh the T28 is almost better than the T95 wich is not it logical since the T95 is a tier higer.

Also nerf the shell reload time on the FV2005 from 2.50 stock to 3.30 stock

Buff the AT-7’s 10 shell penetration on the armor-piercing composite rigid from 180 mm pen stock to 200 mm pen stock but lower the pen on armor-piercing from 110 mm on stock to 90 mm pen stock

Buff the left hatch on the Foch 155 so it’s a thin straight line instead of a big box square

Nerf the obj 268/4 make a weakness on the tracks like the Minotauros weakspot on the tracks

[stuck acorn]

first of all, T95 is a great tank, sounds like a skill issue. I could agree with a buff to the forward hatch (the one in the back stays as a weakspot) but it would need to get a nerf to some other characteristics to compensate for that.

2nd of all, the change that you'd like to make to FV4005 would just instantly kill the tank, it's just not the way to balance out this vehicle.

3rd of all, 10 shot autoloader on AT-7 is a meme gun so it was left in this horrible state on purpose, not to mention that the change you'd like to do makes literally no sense what so ever. Penetration is probably the last thing that should be changed on it. If you want to change anything on it, a slight intraclip buff would be much more welcome.

and the last but not least, Foch was completly trashed by WG in the last rebalance. Slight change to the hatch armor layout won't change anything

268v4 is already one trick only tank + it's borderline garbage. You are out of mind trying to nerf it. If they want to change any T10 TD that definetly should be a badger instead

@wicked quest guessing by the way he speaks, i'm sadly pretty sure it is

[idle osprey]

Ik the Foch got nerft checked the nerf and buff thingy but I want it back prob not possible tough

Dawg/dogofw u guessed it

Question when is the chat coming back I wasn’t that toxic only said the n word 2 times in platoon chat

Dawg I’m gold on 10 battles

Might get warned/muted now since this has nothing to do whit tank balance

[wicked quest]

Please say that 2009 isn’t your birth year is it

[idle osprey]

Why can’t y’all change the frontal armor angle on the Ho-Ri T.II to the Ho-Ri makes no sense

Idk if I’m sure abt this it if not I think that the WoTB community wants more realistic camos like the grill and almost forgot the exhaust pipes I’m the T95 remove them they look ugly

[stone drum]

The T95 is honestly already a great tank. The only thing it needs is the super speed boost removed and the hp buffed.

[idle osprey]

Bro got everything explained on short terms man I’m dead 💀💀

[willow hawk]

I surely hope that your favorite tank’s reload time isn’t as long as your run-on sentences.

[idle osprey]

Wrongfully imprisoned, your not right and not wrongly charged for it my favorite Tank in WoTB is the BT-7 and why’s that it’s because I got my first Mastery’s on it but over all it’s the Mighty KV-2 with the longest reload time in the game but that’s always stays as a mystery

[stone drum]

I can barely read and comprehend that which is written in your "unique" linguistique style.
I must however, ponder the meaning that lingers behind your words.

[willow hawk]

I am a poor man. I gave him my two cents. Those two cents were shoved back to me. 😂
He must be a man of great wealth, I suppose.

[long lily]

It already gets buffed on 10.0

[rough sandal]

It already gets buffed on 10.0

[frank bone]

It already gets buffed on 10.0

[merry pelican]

🤣

[fickle light]

Ehhh, i dont think the Foch need an armor change. Foch 155 is unique for it gun and giving it back would certainly better.
If WG however dont want to undo the change to its gun then i would enjoy a buff to the HE damage more

[rough sandal]

foch is good how it is

[red belfry]

pls puff the IS-3 , it so trash now when fighting against other tier 8 heavies

[stone drum]

Lol, no.
that belongs in #blitz-memes

[rough sandal]

you literally have "French Nationalist" on the nick

[leaden flare]

Foch is pretty garbage I'll agree on that one

[stone drum]

I fail to see how that's relevant.

@rough sandal
"Nationalist" isn't referring to me, it's réfering to my great grandfather, it's a euphemism.

[rough sandal]

it's like i'd say that carro45t is underpower as an italian nationalist

[storm spoke]

Clearly showing your bias is a help for everyone to critique and understand your positions, just like your handle does. However, he ain't going in all thread on how bad the BC-B or BDR tank are. He's correctly pointing out that the foch is a really bastardized vehicle as of two updates which many people will agree with, including me. Do you really think he thinks all french tanks are underpowered ?

@stone drum that's not an euphemism, that would be an hypocoristic or just a circumlocution

[stone drum]

I'll explain it go you in dms.

[rough sandal]

Foch is supposed to stay like this, is has speed, armor and 1000 dmg in 4 seconds, and even the normal gun is good, btw yes i think he thinks that all french tanks are underpower, because the Foch 155 isn't a bad tank, there are much worse tanks that needs buffs, and ofc i have my point of view in the game that is covered by my experience in this game that isn't just 1k battles with 30%wr, i'm an experienced player

[storm spoke]

No it isn't, it has unjustifiably bad gun handling with eye-brow raising arc and depression which completely shatter your role as both a sniper (you move a lot and loose a lot of shots your colleagues in other tanks wouldn't miss) and assault gun (you're the most easily rushable tank in the tier with no real nuclear option like an Obj or even 183 would have.). You're stuck in a weird second-line spot in which your armour works but your optics weakness is so easy to hit it negates everything all the steel in the hull. The two shells gun, while unique, interesting and desirable makes it so you need to expose your optics for even longer compared to other tanks. I've played the thing. I do have a huge bias against TDs as they really are not my favourite nor my best kind of vehicles. Nonetheless, I understand why some tanks are popular and do occasionally play tanks like the Minotauro or the WZ-OP-1G FT (or M4 rev, hehexd). However, the foch now is my least favourite tank in my entire garage due to how pitiful the experience is. I'd rather play tier I-2-3 or wait 8 minutes for a tier 4 battle than suffer in the foch. And all if this is a new development after uncalled for changes we simply ask for an adjustment to.
Also, being an experienced player really actually doesn't matter here

[stone drum]

So how do you justify the lack of gun depression and gun arc, or the terrible reverse speed then?

[leaden flare]

If it's not a bad tank why is it used nowhere and in tours used as troll pick ?

[rough sandal]

cause not all good tanks are suitable for tournaments?

[long light]

Not all good tanks are fun or entertaining either, they removed the only factor that made foch unique and worth the pain to grind the line

[stone drum]

Foch is an incredibly inflexible tank, this was necessary to justify its insanely high firepower. Currently foch no longer has that completely out-sized firepower, yet it retains the same inflexiblity.
Why should it have such terrible gun arc and reverse speed. I see absolutely no reason it should not.

[ashen cedar]

wg plz nerf the hesh on the 183, it has been annoying many people

[whole breach]

Ok

[humble depot]

The tank is already terrible, and the HESH hasn’t been annoying people.

[fickle light]

Uhhhh no? The gun handling is so bad that putting it at the second line will still mean that it miss 40% of the shots. The armor itself isnt that much compare to other frontline TDs to accurately dump out damage, especially when WG try to intensify the double-barreled shotgun aspect of it with the recent "rework"

[unique scaffold]

When is update 10.0 going to get realesed?

[leaden flare]

All good tanks are suitable for tours
Even if they aren't meta they wouldn't be considered a troll pick unlike tanks like mino 183 and foch

[rough sandal]

other frontline TDs are slow

[fickle light]

Badger is pretty fast given how much armor it have, Obj263 too. Not all frontline TDs are slow

[long light]

263,268,e3,badger:

[storm spoke]

Other frontline TDs are slower however they are all basically better at being frontline TDs than the focuh. I'd rather be in the 268 E3 or badger all day than the foch. Even the dreadful but lovable mino

[stone drum]

Foch isn't a front line td though.

@rough sandal So your going to just pick off one comment, unrelated to his arguement and take it as definitive of his entire arguement. Smh

[scenic kindle]

Yeah because it has paper side armor and rear armor. Might aswell be a little behind and hulldown, but prammo still exists

[rough sandal]

so now we go for personal taste? good, after this i'll stop because there is no reason to talk about serious stuff an being trolled here, but Foch actually can do like 1000 dmg in 3,8 sec, that E3(that i read by some that is fast, the E3) 268v4, 263, and Minotauro can't to effectively like the Foch 155. E3 is slower and has even less DPM for an very good armor and -8 degree of gun depression, 268v4 is fast and has good armor but trades the gun and it needs to point the enemy and like Foch against HEAT is very fragile, 263 doesn't have armor, it's just troll, because lowerplate is very fragile and fragile engine deck, and the Minotauro has very good turrett, but it's very slow and even less accurate than foch(and if you use the third shoot it has like 40 sec reload), so with Foch you have 2 options: 1)use the drum, drum someone(ofc you don't have to Yolo like an superheavy) and go away, or you can even work as a support tank or push mediums. 2) you play the single shot that nobody talked about it and it's very good, 3200 dpm, 0.32 base accuracy, 600 alpha and 280mm pen with normal ammo, andd you use it like a sniper, and a thing that everybody forget, the speed and the armor combo that permits the foch to play differently than all the others TDs. @stone drum i don't respond to you cause you are just trolling me, talking about poor gun arc and bad reverse speed when you don't need them with that tank it's just silly.(and even your nickname says that you are biased towards french tanks)

[frank bone]

I have a solutions to fix the foch 155. Just give it 750 alpha autoloader it has in wot.😂

[rough sandal]

ahahahah XD

[hoary flume]

What is the best tank in wotb? (Just asking)

[humble depot]

That depends on what you like

[storm spoke]

You are playing the victim. You are not being trolled. You fail to convince everyone and aren't even mocked for your positions at this point if you won't or can't face tepid criticism you're free to go anytime
You said : Foch actually can do like 1000 dmg in 3,8 sec, that E3(that i read by some that is fast, the E3) 268v4, 263, and Minotauro can't to effectively like the Foch 155
While this is true, the foch ITSELF struggles in doing that effectively. That's why we're asking for at the least a reverse of the changes. The mino and foch are actually quite comparable gunwise as the reserve shell mechanic basically tuns the mino gun into a two shell loader. Thus, the mino will often be way more effective in dealing 1000 damage over 4 seconds because it has a lower intraclip and way better protections (OP hulldown). It only looses some 20 damages in alpha over the two shells which is null. The two tanks however should have different roles, as the mino is an interdiction anchor which will be completely overwhelmed by any sort of flank while the foch is more of a chasseur tank. However, the horrendous reverse speed of the foch means that if you go ahunting or guard a particular spot, you are weak to counterfire. And that's why mino has more winrate, relative winrate, avg. damage, ratio, kd, or even survival rate on blitzstar's tankcompare. The single shot is just plain bad though if you want the single shot gun and play like a sniper, play the E100 or Ho-Ri. Theyre better

You however decided to ignore the massive flaws of the tank which holds it back (and it also holds the popularity of the Ho-Ri in player counts IMO) its horrendous gun meta stats of arc and reverse speed. The stiffness of the tank is what holds it back from its designed role. We want foch flexibility
Also you have said about the poor foch guy he was biaised against french tanks "btw yes i think he thinks that all french tanks are underpower" and now say the contrary "you are biased towards french tanks"

[rough sandal]

depends on how you want to play

[random frost]

Man I wish I had played the Foch in its glory days. Only got it recently and while it looks good in destroyer camo, and the gun sound rocks, it definitely does not feel comfortable to play.

[stone drum]

The single shot has like 3050 dpm, 3150 with rammer.
If you think bad gun arc and bad reverse speed don't effect its playstyle then you have no clue how it plays. The foch basically plays around corners, due to bad gun arc it has to turn to expose it's trash sides and slowly try too reverse into cover.

@rough sandal I didn't mention other tanks a single time... lol. I have only mentioned foch and how it currently is against itself, and against previous iterations of itself.

@random frost I have some videos I recorded of the old foch I can send you if you like. If I can find some old replays I can also record them and send them if you like.

[rough sandal]

you have problems with the foch saying that doesn't perform like other tanks, so you have no clue on how to play

[random frost]

Thx but I’ve watched videos and streams from those glory days. And I haven’t lost hope that they gonna do something about poor Foch soon.

[slow helm]

sei proprio un nero madonna

[frank bone]

English only on this server

[rough sandal]

finalmente un italiano

[stone drum]

The AMX AC 48 is still pretty good if you want to play it.

[slow helm]

grande broooo

[random frost]

Is it? I sold it as soon as I finished grinding the next one lol. Didn’t notice it was anything special.

[stone drum]

Yeah its current the best of the line rn.

[rocky lily]

English only

[stuck acorn]

after the buff it's really enjoyable. It is the only tank in the line that actually benefited from WG changes

[ornate warren]

Beside being not effective, I dont think someone will enjoy the current clip design tho, it just doesnt fit and doesnt serve any interesting playstyle

[pine merlin]

Amx light tanks should get armor upgrade

[wicked quest]

Say that again but really Slowly

[stone drum]

https://tenor.com/view/the-dark-knight-joker-heath-ledger-and-i-thought-my-jokes-were-bad-bad-jokes-gif-3961540

[ornate warren]

Maaan….

[pine merlin]

I just think they should

[ornate warren]

it would be better if you had any reasons for that in this chat, so we can think over it y know

[pine merlin]

Well Its great that they are very fast and all but their armor is way to weak for Its tier and so Its imposible to get a kill with It because all the other tanks got much better armor

[real bison]

the entire point of their design was to screw armour for mobility

which you should use said mobility to get into positions where the enemy wont shoot at you

and imagine relying on armour??

[stone drum]

Mobility, small size, low exposure, high camo. They have excellent survivability for what they are.

[orchid grove]

AMX 13’s are great. The turret is pretty much the size of a normal tanks turret weak spot anyway, so it doesn’t even matter that they have no armor.

[ornate warren]

Well you gotta need to make the trade of having amazing speed but giving the entire armor . So you should pick heavy class if youre looking for armor (not every heavy ofc)

[frank bone]

I loved the bc line, but the tier 9 is so disapointing. The amx 12 t is my favorite, maybe cause i played it before anni and smasher were out on the battlefield.😔

[pine merlin]

Ok thank they are all very good points

[stone drum]

Plus if you have the ability to cope hard enough Stock AMX guns tend to have usable gun depression

[twilit crystal]

gib 13 105 with 8 degrees of depression

[long lily]

Only thing that's hell with amx light line is the fact you face a lot of things in low tiers that will one shot you.
And you know
You have the tier 5 I think that's just a box with a turret that doesn't wanna turn

[azure marten]

Wouldn’t mind that as a premium

[near warren]

AMX ELC is a great tank if you know how to use it. A great fun tank

[meager flower]

Why did you nerf the WZ 111-5A?

[stone drum]

What are you talking about?

[humble depot]

They haven’t. Why would you think they did?

[meager flower]

They nerfed the speed. It is a led slug now.

[stone drum]

Bruh... they Buffed the accuracy and dpm...
They literally turned it from a worse IS-7 to one of the best tier X heavies...

[stone drum]

Honestly, WG should add this to tier 6 or tier 7
It could be a Balanced

[scenic apex]

ramming monster

[blazing knoll]

no

[stone drum]

Well yes, but it could still be interesting.

(Ngl I thought your pfp was a bottle of crown royal whiskey until I looked closer)

[unique scaffold]

I need this

[rough sandal]

Smasher favourite toy to play with

[willow elbow]

Wg should make the 183 faster

[unique scaffold]

Boring

[rough sandal]

I don't need to know how are you thanks

[ornate warren]

lol

[stone drum]

What?

[sinful heart]

smash

[arctic python]

foch 155 needs a buff
if not to the gun at least make the main front plate thicker and the lower plate smaller
if they could also bump up the absolutely abysmal credit coef it would be great

[storm spoke]

If you want to buff foch's armour it needs a buff to its optics system, not to the actual armour as they are a weakspot on an okay armoured tank

[arctic python]

some tds can pen the main plate with standard ap
i believe main plate should be prammo only, and unpennable if tilted back

[jade cargo]

TitanicTommy#2525 has been warned.

[storm spoke]

I do not think it should be unpenetrable, you are trying to implement a very mobile and high blast badger/obj 268.4 which should never see the light of day imo.
The main armour of the foch 155 is already quite hard to penetrate from a distance and can bounce shots close up if you have spent enough time meditating at de gaule's grave
Tds should be able to penetrate it

[arctic python]

the entire point of the foch is to have a bad gun and nonexistent side armor, but an almost unpennable front armor with two small weakspots on the top
it should have a e100-grade font plate
and after the gun rebalance nerf, you have not reason to play it

[solid scaffold]

Buff its frontal armor and more people will learn about the garbage track wheels

[storm spoke]

No that's not true. The foch's used to be an agressive, armoured and mobile vehicle. It's mobility was the cornerstone of both its strength and popularity which allowed it a unique role which its two shell gun only made more unique

[dry compass]

You should bring back the normal foch gun, this autoloader one doesn't fit the tank nor does it make sense how a tank before it has better dpm, now it feels like a downgrade from the amx ac 48

[stone drum]

Actually the point is an insane gun with tremendous raw firepower on a tank with decent mobility and average armour.
The raw firepower is the single most important aspect of foch.

[unique scaffold]

Op?

[rough sandal]

tank balance discussion on wotb, not on PanzerWar XDD(btw you can make invisible hull)

[violet island]

sure sounds like fun for everyone else in the game, when a tank has unpennable front armor, besides aren't tds supposed to have high pen, thus leading to armor that is not pennable for other classes (such as Foch 155 in this case) to be penable for them?

[arctic python]

other tanks (e100 for example) also have an unpennable front plate

[long light]

Yeah but the lower plate is weak and easy to aim on

[arctic python]

foch has a lower plate, a huge wiewport, and overmatchable sides

[main tulip]

It has weak sides, but no one's overmatching them

[stone drum]

They can't be overmatched, but the track wheel is pretty weak.

[twin egret]

France suffers

[storm spoke]

foch has 3 times the mobility of the E100 and its armour should therefore not match else you want either a godly tank or an ungunned one

[stuck acorn]

just bring foch back to original 2 shot autoloader state with 640 alpha, nerf HE a bit to like 860 instead of 960 and it will be perfectly balanced

[pine sequoia]

Tiger II needs more speed when going in reverse. And a bit more speed in general imo

[fickle light]

Ah yes, the 640 alpha Foch 155.It was a good time before they bring it down to 560 and to whatever this is now

[still anchor]

British heavy tank has a cardboard hull *9 tier

[main tulip]

and?

[compact nymph]

Average players when they realize not every heavy tank is about having impenetrable Neanderthal-tier armor:

[gloomy anchor]

Yeah
But if you play the Conq well that's not a problem

[arctic python]

50b

[stuck acorn]

back then it was broken indeed, but now it would be just fine

[main tulip]

Yeah that was before all the heavy hitpoint buffs, and spall liner, and med and heavium firepower being generally lower as well

[fickle light]

Man i want the old Foch 155 autoloader

[slow sonnet]

Its a German heavy. Lest I say more?

[stone drum]

Tiger II certainly doesn't need any buffs.

[pine sequoia]

Ye i was wrong. Im just bad at the game

[humble depot]

It’s already the second best Tier 8 heavy after the 53TP. It doesn’t need a buff like that.

[gloomy anchor]

What is the least painful line to grind between STB1 line and Leo 1 line ?

[humble depot]

Are you new to the game or not?

[main tulip]

Pretty close, I would say Leo, because Ru 251 doesn't have much of a stock grind I suppose. Chi-Ri is much better than SP1C, on the other hand. But both tier 9s are going to be stinkers to grind from stock

[gloomy anchor]

2.5k battles, t10 Kranvagn and soon Fv215b (heavy). So yeah i think 😅

[tame temple]

Atleast type 61 has some flexibility meanwhile Leo pta barely having any gun depression nor having a good punch that it literally tickles enemies.

[main tulip]

Eh, Leo at least has more alpha and a whopping 23% more DPM when comparing stock guns. Type 61 is easily the better tank when maxed out though

[main glade]

Revamp the looks of is2 pls🤗

[humble depot]

Then don’t go for mediums. Or the 215b, for that matter.

[gloomy anchor]

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but I think we misunderstood each other. I didn't ask if it's a good idea to farm these tanks or not. I asked which line was the least painful to farm.

[turbid ice]

I don’t wanna mini mod but this channel is for balance changes, if you want help about which line is the least painful to grind go in #vehicles-discussion

[stone drum]

I wouldn't go that far, but it's certainly extrêmely solid.

[gloomy anchor]

Oops sorry

[jade cargo]

crispy#8021 has been warned.

[humble depot]

Should’ve clarified that I meant tech tree heavies only.

[jade cargo]

WOT_R#1732 was muted.

[stone drum]

Even then their are some strong competitors. Tier 8 is flooded with absurdly strong heavies.

[pine sequoia]

Tiger II🫣

[tame temple]

Yeah 53tp apart from the long reload seems to be good on the other aspects plus the special consumables and provisions, same with the Emil that has a dangerous clip and a strong armor and the special speed boost, it seems to be balanced out with the low DPM, top speed, below average accuracy.

That's just 2 examples

[stone drum]

Honestly 10.0 might be the first time I'm excited for the changes coming to french tanks... lol.

[broken kernel]

In excited for 11.0, probably going to be THE biggest blitz update since its the tenth anniversary

I have some ideas for update 11.0 but WG arent too fond of community feedback @stone drum

[stone drum]

true.

@broken kernel if you want to actually send them ideas either send them a company email or actually reach out to WG representative.

fyi, WG has alot of open spots for company employees, Especially in the balancing department. They actually had a job for a french/polish community manager, which I considered.

[unique scaffold]

When New season

[humble depot]

Yes, that is true, but among Tech Tree heavies the Tiger II and 53TP are supreme. The Tiger II is unmatched in terms of armour while the 53TP’s gun is insane and both have surprisingly good mobility.

[winged barn]

T32 was not mentioned, it clearly needs another buff.

[full token]

I agree it’s been too long since the last buff and WG have clearly forgotten about it

[tame temple]

Naaa T32 is fine as it is, I don't even need to mention it's strengths

[prisma jetty]

Do I hear a dpm buff?

[stone drum]

Absolutely, it's an atrocity it doesn't have 3k dpm and 248mm of pen. It also desperately needs hesh and a large HP buff, to fix its absurdly low hp pool.

[void siren]

(It has the best hp pool out of all tier 8 heavies with sandbags)

[stone drum]

sardonic humor is all but lost onto the masses, as even the most beautiful flower bud is swept away by a vicious storm.

[willow hawk]

Poetic. Did you come up with this or quoting someone?

[raven dawn]

give it an autoreloader

[full token]

Bet those strengths don’t include best dpm or accuracy. That’s why it needs a buff asap to fix that. Can’t let a tank have such weaknesses

[fickle light]

Increase SU-122-54 ammo capacity to 40

[neat venture]

Yes but i was full healt and the tank is extremely slow so it doesn’t make sense to give me that much dmg

[stone drum]

I literally came up with it on a whim.

[quick lichen]

This has nothing to do with this channel.

[stone drum]

Opinion: medium tanks with 105mm guns in tier X should have atleast .299 dispersion (when running double food) base.

[quick lichen]

It’s one game. You’ll be fine.

[jade cargo]

Commando224#9069 has been warned.

Commando224#9069 was muted.

[unique scaffold]

Buff p43 bis. The stock gun is really useless

[drowsy plaza]

Hint all stock guns are like that.

[neat crescent]

most , there are a few that happen to be really good or better than some of the following guns

[uneven fox]

Why cant E3 just be brought to its original state

[scenic kindle]

SU-152: Let me introduce myself

[jovial dirge]

t32 is fine imo, maybe a bit more pen but its aight

[prisma jetty]

💀 the joke is that T32 has been buffed so many times that it’s incredibly strong

[drowsy plaza]

Fair point. But those are more the exceptions that prove the rule.

[void siren]

Take away the prammo and the gun keels over and dies

[orchid grove]

The pen was already buffed. It’s 218/265 now, which is pretty good

[ancient rampart]

Better pen than the Emil I
So yeah it's pretty good

[winged barn]

But it could be better

[twilit crystal]

265 is prety similar to everyone else like is3, the standard pen at 218 is a bit lower than an is3 but its more accurate

[stone drum]

I figured out how to fix superpershing's flaws.

[obtuse sentinel]

do tell do tell

[stone drum]

Look closer.... lol

[rotund skiff]

look at the name...

[balmy obsidian]

Lol, E5 instead of E4

[main tulip]

imagine T26E5 with the SuperPershing's appliqué armor

[obtuse sentinel]

ooooh... oh. 💀

[stone drum]

Scary...
me trying and failing to apply pbr superpershing model to T26e5.

[night thunder]

Its gonna be comically slow

[main tulip]

how bad can it be

[rough sandal]

the Jumbo version of the Pershing with the spaced armor... Just add T95 gun Mantlet on it 😂😂

[dreamy moss]

Wargaming should buff the WZ-111-5A premium pen

[somber badger]

buff is 3 aiming time

[onyx ocean]

Buff Astron Rex 21.35 clip time and 3.53 relode to next grande ? 😡 ist MED ... Emil I relode 3 sec Somua SM 3sec .....

[ebon lynx]

It's a med, that's the reason its autoloader take longer to reload and dump the clip

[prisma jetty]

It can 2 clip higher tier meds and lights. It’s fine.

[onyx ocean]

i understand but it's lazy it takes longer than it accelerates... armor tragedy... DPM horror... it's more like something between a light tank and a TD medium vs astron confrontation is death
it would certainly be possible to even out the odds a little😝

[severe hound]

Can we agree that we need to buff the maus???

[stone drum]

It worked, but the textures didn't apply properly, I can send you the files if you like.

[clear shuttle]

giving an already strong tier 8 dpm very nice i agree 💪👍

[jade cargo]

gamerz#0412 was banned.

[stuck acorn]

sounds like a skill issue

[jade cargo]

Jackson 123135#0816 has been warned.

[drowsy plaza]

Sounds more like a trolling issue…

[full token]

The joke is that WG didn’t stop at the first unnecessary buff but kept adding onto it, so why not expect more with that thinking

[sour spruce]

Why was I getting a warning

[full token]

You’d be DMed the reason

[stone drum]

Chimera should have hesh às it's standard ammo

[plain wagon]

STA-1 would have a bad day after that chimera got HESH. Man, it is already strong, don't power it with besh

[pine sequoia]

SMV td
at t8 is wayyy too good. Turret armor needs a nerf cuz this is bs

[queen geyser]

it is way too good, only problem are those gamers who use the autoreloader cause they drag down the server stats so wg thinks the tank is fine

[stone drum]

1. It already has hesh. 2. Having Hesh as standard ammo would actually be good balance wise, due to certain properties of HE.

[full token]

No different than regular HE if it doesn’t have high pen. Hesh usually means higher pen. There’s no mechanics to separate hesh from he other than the pen

[stone drum]

Yep. Remember he doesn't have normalization like ap so it's an effective nerf.

[humble depot]

Yes. Gib HESH and remove super consumables.

[shadow axle]

please buff the objv4 its so bad it hurts

[nimble zodiac]

Let me guess, you bought a tank without researching about it?

[shadow axle]

i got it knowing it wasnt that good, i still enjoy playing it but its just bad
i never get a tank blind

i did know it wasnt so good but boi is it REALLY bad
the gun handling is worthless the mobility is meh and the armour is non existent

[stone drum]

Obj 253 and Foch laughing in background.

[nimble zodiac]

The armor is nonexistent? 😂
I'm gonna have to call that one on the driver

[granite pebble]

The V4 is literally one of the strongest tanks to play in randoms because of the fact that when you use enhanced armor, basically nothing can pen you without running calibrated or shooting your cupola.

It may not be OP, but its strong as hell, especially with the soft stats that the gun has.

[tacit pelican]

It is a good tank if you just play it correctly , using the right equipment and putting it in a right position on the map. I hadn’t never seen someone crying for buff the V4. Probably having skills issue

[lost burrow]

There's already caliban whit strong hesh in tier 8 bruh

[granite pebble]

Like.... It's an insanely fun tank

[stone drum]

(A very bad) AMX M4 mle 54 rebalance suggestion:
Note: All stats with double food, without crew skills or equipment.

Survivability
-remove sandbags
-decrease lower side armour (except behind track wheels) to 60mm
-decrease upper side armour to 80mm
-increase upper plate and upper lower plate to 280mm thick
-give turret an actual hittable weakspot.

Firepower
-remove tungsten shells
-replace current gun with two new guns, the 120mm D.1203 and 138mm/50 Modèle 1929/34 (both have same base aimtime as original)

First the 120mm D.1203
-Ap/apcr/he
-260/340/65 penetration
-400/340/515 average damage
-1067/1334/1067 shell velocity
-.326 dispersion
-.18/.18/.08 handling
-6.5 rof (2600 dpm)
Basically the most generic gun in tier X.

Secondly the 138mm/50 Modèle 1929/34
-Ap/ap/he
-265/295/85 penetration
-525/450/720 average damage
-820/900/870 shell velocity
-.335 dispersion
-.18/.18/.12 handling
-5.4 rof or 2835 dpm (with rammer)

Mobility
-increase weight to 84.5 tonnes
-Increase hp to 1200
-improve terrain resistance to 104/89/40

[rough sandal]

that tank is a noobproof tank, if the enemy has low pen it can't pen you, but if the enemy has enough brain to see that the tank has a cupola or load gold ammo, good luck against the enemy TDs XD

[ebon lynx]

2.8k dpm in a 138/139?

[stone drum]

Ummm, yeah? The tanks rôle is as a damage dealer.

I mean their is alot of room for adjustment on the ammo, but it's pretty decent imo, but could be better.

I mean not really, when you use tungsten and adrénaline you get about that number. Regardless the point of it, is to be a relatively high dpm + high alpha tank.

[ebon lynx]

Isn't it a little too much dpm for the alpha it would carry?
It would out-trade most of the other heavies, and what it couldn't out-trade, it would out-dpm.
I've suggested a HT with similar calibre and alpha once, but with a base DPM of 2120

[green oak]

Where could i find next update tank changes list? Thinking mostly about amx 50 100

[stone drum]

It is alot, but it's supposed to be. Thats kinda what makes the vehicle Unique. plus 5a exsists.
While I figured 560 alpha would be completely outsized, I reasoned 525 would be a reasonably small enough amount to have dpm.

Without dpm it basically is just either a 5a or a bad 60tp. Though penetration values could be dropped to compensate.

[ebon lynx]

This is pretty much how I've balanced the gun in the suggestion I've made a long ago,
It's not a monster but it should be rather decent.

[stone drum]

Yeah, but that's à quite weak gun for a tank heavily centered around damage output.

[ebon lynx]

Well, there's enough space for a ton of changes.
It's just a suggestiong after all, it's not like it will result in anything.
If you have any suggestions for changes, they'll be welcome.

[stone drum]

Well we do it better understand game balancing and because it's fun.

[shadow axle]

its fun but its not good. i play ranking battles in 5k+ and they KNOW how to load gold or hit the cupola. ill say it again, the armour is non existent versus players with somebraincelss.
@rough sandal yeah exactly! problem is i was not playing normals with some randoms

also i was averaging 2.5k anyway its not a skill issue xd im not a random noob complaining. that tank is not strong versing actual people with actual working braincells

[long light]

Then dont play ratings with that tank?
You can angle pretty well with the sides of V4, you just gotta know how to play it better instead of saying its not good because you're not good at it

[ancient rampart]

Literally just a worse KPZ 70 gun

[broken kernel]

Give 60TP, -8 degrees, increase HE alpha from 680 -> 900, increase HE pen 80mm -> 90mm and decrease base dispersion from 0.403 -> 0.383

[shadow axle]

i can angle with that tank but its not a great tank lmao. love how brainless noobs here are just "skill issue lol"without even understanding the difference about playing a tank vs a noob or a good player. the v4 is not a good tank, it is good versus noobs. AND THAT DOESNT MAKE IT GOOD. to me at least, i dont base the strength of a tank playing versus bots.

matter of fact i dont struggle vsing it

[ebon lynx]

If you have any suggestions for changes, just say it and they'll be welcome.

[prisma jetty]

Don’t angle the V4, that makes its armor weaker

[long light]

Angle where ur going to get shot (sides)

@broken kernel i guess the people that do what im saying doesnt also understand the tank but bounces my shots so alr

[broken kernel]

You don’t understand the v4 at all huh, if you angle your v4 it turns into butter

[storm spoke]

The V4 is a gimmick tank where it is virtually impenetrable FRONTALLY. The moment you turn is the moment you loose

[shadow axle]

nono guys he was the one telling i wasnt good at the tank he clearly is a pro player

i will drive it backwards where it has more armour

[prisma jetty]

The V4 works on the fact that it has higher than usual alpha while forcing enemies to use prammo, giving it great trading value. Add on that it can use reactive armor, further lowering the enemies armor, and you have a trading beast

[broken kernel]

This is blitz, people arent smart, the average iq of blitz players is probably below 80, of course you are going to get bounces against those people

[sharp raft]

80 too high

[rough sandal]

he didn't played wot, so he doesn't know that gun was broken

[ebon lynx]

I can't tell if it is right or not

[rough sandal]

if you play against skilled players and with tanks that has enough penetration, that tank is easy to deal with, Badger is better, @ebon lynx on wot they literally demolished that gun because it was performing like Cw only tanks, so yeah

[stone drum]

I've played wot since 2011, thank you very much. kindly refrain from spreading false information about me.

Also the m4 54, was for the majority of its existence an incredibly médiocre tank infact it used to be viewed along with AMX65t as the worst tech tree heavy tanks. Their was one patch they overbuffed it, and they immediately nerfed it the next patch.

[rough sandal]

so you should know that 2,8k dpm base it is too high for that gun

[stone drum]

So you should know I'm not going to listen to someone who glorifies German superheavies, lies about me, and calls me a troll.

@ebon lynx I just realized the dpm was miscalculated on my part, I forgot to mention I calculated it with rammer. the base dpm would be 2467. 2835 dpm would be the max with double food + gun rammer. 3045 dpm with 525 would be completely broken, lol.

[rough sandal]

thanks for adjusting the dpm on your build

[visual coral]

don't press random links people

[ancient vale]

anyone wonders why the ( NERFED ) foch to 2573 DPM and every french TD but a TVP T 50/51 that can destroy your half of HP or SU-122-44 that has beter DPM than foch before the nerf? bcs i do

[random pendant]

Are we not gonna talk about how instead of buffing the super Pershing so it could keep up with other tier 8’s they just made a new fake super Pershing that has better stats to replace it :/

So not only do us who like realistic stuff get hardly anything now we have a disadvantage

[ancient vale]

well , there are a lot of copyed / remaked tanks in the game but this is kinda unfair to the pershing that it has a better copy and not buffs , usualy the tank is just remaked and thats all , in SOME RARE moments we get a tank with completly diferent stats but yea, and i dont think its only the pershing that has a copy of it self - like a better one

[rough sandal]

because the Balance team needs to keep the game unbalance to have a job to feed themselfs

[random pendant]

cough SMASHER cough
And I don’t know if pass tanks apply to this are their stats the same as the normal tank?

[long light]

As an example the tech tree jpz is nothing compared to kryos

[random pendant]

Is it like rarely that there’s a difference or are all/most better than their normal counterparts
(I hope not,I prefer to use the normal versions of these tanks most of the time)

[stuck acorn]

Because WG has no idea on how to balance tanks. I remember playing on OT and by then I and tons of other people told them that it's a terrible idea. I know few super testers as well and from what i was told, they weren't convinced about this being good idea either.

I get that they wanted to make T9 have a closer playstyle to a T10 which i think is a good thing, but they just failed to balance it out properly.

800 clip damage with like 17s reload at a T9 TD is a terrible value, especially considering that a tank lacks versatility to use it efficiently. Same thing goes for T10.

If they wanted to make those tanks similar they should have just bring back T10 to the original state with 640 alpha and give T9 a similar autoloader with short full reload and long intraclip but alpha lower than on T10. It would be much simplier and would solve the issue

[stone drum]

They stupid thing though was the tier 9 and tier 10 already had a similar playstyle. 6s reload vs 7s intraclip, they both played as high dpm assualt tanks.

[stone drum]

Suggestion:
Replace Foch autoloader with a copy of 50bs old autoloader, with almost identical stats.

[humble depot]

You mean the Foch B?

[stone drum]

Yes, but significantly less toxic. it wouldn't have some insane 6 round clip. it would just be 400×3 with 3s intraclip, same clip reload (as old 50b) and preferably the same accuracy.
It would be pretty good imo and a nice change from the current style of autoloaders in blitz.

[stone drum]

Because E-100 desperately needed a buff...

[humble depot]

Not like anyone uses the 128 on it anyways

[severe vector]

Im actually with the maus/stock E100 buff... But are you sure about the mauschen/E75 buff bro? I guess we can skip those

Whoops... I need some sleep:/... @broken kernel
@nimble zodiac yeah mb bro

[broken kernel]

Im making the 12.8 cm more competitive

@severe vector Mauschen desperately needs a buff, the tank is unbearable and those buffs i suggested probably arent enough, as for the “Tiger II”, that is a E 75, the tiger II cant mount the 12.8 cm Kw.K

@stone drum the entire point of the 12.8 cm on the E 100 is to be more accurate and more dpm, currently it has like 15 more dpm which isnt enough

[nimble zodiac]

That's an E75
Understandable misconception though, the representative image is interestingly put in a high perspective

[stone drum]

:/
Why not just give E-100 12.8cm silly handling to make up for it being otherwise crap?

[full token]

Put in something to say it’s what you’re suggesting for the guns and not news from 10.0. Thought it was an official buff list for 10.0 and wasted my time thinking why WG would come up with this

[broken kernel]

This isnt news discussion channel, this is tank balance discussion, people where give suggestions for balancing and talk about future balancing

[wooden lynx]

+40 to Grille 15 alpha to make it 640 like the other 15cm German guns

[rough sandal]

Probably 2500 dpm base by reducing the reload or higher the alpha to 500 for the 128mm on the E100, since it must have an advantage than the 15cm dmg and heat pen, but the Germans actually needs dispersion on movement buff

[full token]

Talking about incoming changes counts

[void siren]

none of the other 15cms have 640 in the entire line
the rest of the tds in the grille line don't have 640, why should the grille?

[wooden lynx]

It was infact a 15cm gun that used to have 640 alpha

[full token]

Why should the entire line have 600 for 15cm guns. Grille’s a tier X too. No reason it shouldn’t have 640 if other guns are allowed that in tier X.

[unique scaffold]

I have to agree. Gill 15 is the coolest tank destroyer. When I get it, I have a camo reserved for it.

Also E-100 has a turret upgrade and is one of the only tier X tanks that have it. A tank. Dealing more damage than a TANK DESTROYER. That’s completely backwards.

[humble depot]

And how much more DPM, mobility, penetration, and accuracy does the Grille have?

[ancient rampart]

I’ll never understand the reason for nerfing the damage for the 150mms on the Grille line
When the 152mm and 155mm guns both do 640 Alpha

Just remove the spall liner from the grille line and give them their alpha back

[wooden lynx]

3k+ dpm, Penetration good enough to cut through anything infront of you, mobility decent, most accurate td

[stone drum]

Hmm? not all 155mm guns do 640 alpha...

[jade cargo]

Marcus_#8776 has been warned.

elitcible01#3194 has been warned.

Lit Up Like Bonfire Night!#7137 has been warned.

[drowsy plaza]

They used too.

[rough sandal]

yeah but grille loses armor and lots of camo to have that gun, 640 was fine, 600 is too little for grille

[shadow axle]

tried it against normal people in normal games bounces 5k like nothing

its good versus noobs indeed. still not that good versus actual players

[stone drum]

They nerfed it because Grille was a "toxic" tank.

It basically sits in the back of the map and snipes...

[wooden lynx]

But it traded so much for the gun to be godly

@shadow axle yeah it is a sniper that's why it's accurate, it traded armour and camo to get that gun it doesn't deserve to have 600 alpha gun, 150mm-155mm should have 640 alpha like the Foch 155 and Grille.

[shadow axle]

yeah i mean the grille is literally a huge sniper barrel... shouldnt it like- uh snipe?

[remote oriole]

In principle… yes. In practice… yes. Ideally? No.

Grille is just a bad tank to be added. Any mobile high alpha tank is just a bad tank to be added because they are all difficult to balance. So they made the Grille slow and tried to balance it by making it better at snapshooting. This makes the Grille kind of decent for flanking and close-ish combat but still, the whole concept of the tank as it is right now defies that playstyle

Why ideally not? Well, essentially because camping is toxic. It is unengaging (still somewhat effective) and slows the gameplay. To counter campers you first need to break through the enemy lines which usually makes you vulnerable to campers. Your own campers cannot support offensive actions. Primarily for these reasons, itis also a playstyle that causes frustration for the enemy and your own team

[stone drum]

I personally feel the Scorpion G at tier 8 is an ideal state for the kind of playstyle grille should have.

[shadow axle]

yeah its not fit for blitzs' playstyle
@stone drum agreed!

[gleaming star]

Nerf the Fcking Skoda TvP!
It's a pain in the backside.

[tame temple]

The tier 9? Ayo that one is actually fine as it is, atleast it doesn't have a bouncy frontal armor like the tier 10

[magic lagoon]

Pls give the chinese Tier 9 and 10 light tank more engine power. Their acceleration is so bad

[azure marten]

I hate hearing the lightbulb beep every few seconds

[uneven turtle]

Thoughts on M48 fatten? I’m grinding the line rn

[magic lagoon]

M48 is an amazing tank. Very comfortable to play