tank-balance-discussion

[pure sand]

The only reason why we cannot declare the Carro as the Christmas snowglobe tank is simply because, it's a medium and the trend for snowglobe tanks has always been a tier X collector heavy

[unique scaffold]

Very good point. Probably the strv then

[upbeat sphinx]

t 22 medium was a Christmas tank

[pure sand]

T-22 medium was definitely a Christmas tank but was not available in snowglobe.

Snowglobes first came during the 2019 Christmas celebrations and the first tank to appear was the VK 90.

[upbeat sphinx]

still is a Christmas tank nonetheless

[neat crescent]

Man wz 122 tm is so fun, bit of a shame that it's just overall good and not the best at anything

[pure sand]

You are not understanding my point.

Whenever the snowglobes were released, the snowglobe tank has always been a tier X collector HT.

According to this trend, we've had:

2019: VK 90.01 P
2020: AMX M4 54
2021: CONCEPT 1B

So according to this trend, the Strv K has a higher chance of being the snowglobe tank than the Carro unless WG changes its mind.

Another point to note, a similar situation happened last year when a debate was going on whether the Kpz 50t or the C1B was gonna be the snowglobe tank but WG decided to follow the trend instead.

[unique scaffold]

@bold dagger ?

[bold dagger]

what the hell lol

@lyric oracle St Emil isn’t that great, but the Rhm, WT, and Grille are pretty enjoyable. they’re very popular for a reason. the WT is the best tank in the line, but the Grille is still good. it just takes practice and understanding of positioning to excel in, whereas the WT is more forgiving

[bold dagger]

correlation, not causation

let’s not forget the T-22 medium, for one

[willow hawk]

Amen

[bold dagger]

i honestly don’ remember how the T-22 was distributed but i dont see how the snowglobe itself is any proof for a theory

[unique scaffold]

i feel that post kinda iffy? Like if he just typed all of it would just accomplish the same thing. No need to have a badly screengrab then imprint black text on dark background

[pure sand]

Unless obviously WG decides to break this observable pattern which can be witnessed past 3 years of Christmas celebration events, they might as well pitch the Strv K for the snowglobe tank

[bold dagger]

bruh

i’m not saying that your prediction will be wrong, but this pattern can hardly be considered scientific

or statistically significant

[bold dagger]

i mean, it doesn’t break any rules, so whatever

[unique scaffold]

Have you check it armour profiles? Unless it get Japanese HT special equipment, it hardly qualify for the snowglobe tank this year
@bold dagger Understandable, sorry for pinging you unnecessary

[half onyx]

It’s gonna be STRV K 99.9%

[lyric oracle]

Yes, The Penetrations Are Increased Damage To Enemies When Shots And When I Upgrade Into a Rhm.-Borsig Waffenträger Should Be Good Damage And Penetration Upgrades Do Also The Rate of Fire Slows Few Seconds And Then Armors Are Also Low Then Weaks

[pure sand]

I have thoroughly checked the tank's stats and let me tell you right there, a tank's stats doesn't depend on whether it will be a snowglobe tank this year or not. You think an OP tank will be obtainable in snowglobes every year? No one said that bruh

@unique scaffold further reply: I am all aware that the tank has got almost no selling points, but obviously that is something which rests under WG whether they want to release that tank that way or not, it's not our choice really, right?

[unique scaffold]

M4 54 and C1B is strong, not op. WG right now is focus on making gimmick tank rather than a ht that has worse turret than 5/1, worse Emil 2 hull (Kran hull), good DPM but quite bad alpha (no autoloader, so it can't burst damage quickly then hide). What part of the tank can WG sell to the playerbase?

[upbeat sphinx]

good DPM
So far it's slightly worse than the t95e6, but that tank gets 340 heat. So far the gun is nothing to brag about

[unique scaffold]

@pure sand Then why WG would sell it? I'm sorry, but if you think marketing folk at WG doesn't think this one through, then I have a bridge to sell you.
@upbeat sphinx Yeah hence I said their is nothing WG can sell STRV K to the playerbase rightnow

[pure sand]

Obviously they can buff it if they feel like and then sell it lol

I mean it has just barely entered testing so anything cannot be determined atm

[unique scaffold]

Please pulled data that said when C1B and M4 54 enter testing, it was weak please

[proven drum]

Maybe they are trying to sell a balanced tank, I’m all about that life. Less op t10 ht sold is a good thing in my book

[unique scaffold]

it also breaks the tank entirely and removes the 50B from the question. You can have 290mm of pen. 1600 in 4.5 seconds.. You dont consider that broken do you. You might say "Oh well it has no armour shoot at it with HE." Remember spall liner exists. The 50b also has no armour.

The shell boost alot of people want removed.. Keep the retical calibrated but not the boost

[unique scaffold]

Tell that to the playerbase

[autumn zodiac]

I know this is a late reply but it functioned on "Decorating the tree" required spending a few hundred dollars to obtain and it was the middle of the rewards list.

It was Paywall or a 1% chance from the expensive gold crates from the Blitz fair

There's 2 medals but I only have the one for getting T-22 the other one is only visible to whoever decided to go nuts and finish decorating the tree after getting T-22

[drowsy plaza]

You generally had to go nuts for the T-22. I think mine cost $1,200 USD.

[drowsy plaza]

I’m betting Carro 45t. It was tested and isn’t a tech tree line. But not a balance issue.

[unique scaffold]

I am betting that too

[tacit pelican]

I would rather use that money to buy IPhone instead

[plush hemlock]

I got the t22 in a 5$ crate draw 💀

[willow hawk]

I can pay my tuition with that money. Or buy food. Pay for gas. :/

[thorn nexus]

113 or 121 ?

[wind flower]

That was like 4 years ago so do account for inflation

[spice raptor]

You think I dont have it, i literally have more lossing than winning with it because it is too tall so the shell boost is what i got to make it good

[unique scaffold]

50B is a different concept from the 4005, different levels of “no armour”. 50B can’t be HEed (can be HESHed) from the front, it has to expose its terribly weak sides, which are also partly covered by tracks which can mess you around. The hull can be used to corner peek without showing the turret and block. The turret isn’t great but it’s troll, and won’t get HEed when peeking. The 4005 on the other hand literally has no armour, everything tier ten gun can HE the turret frontally, not to mention it’s an incredibly large target with a massive turret, the gun is situated fairly low down so you expose a large HEable area every time you fire, there’s no way to avoid it, unless you peek your hull out sideways and hope they fire HE at the spaced armour. Don’t forget another thing, 50B has heavy HP, 4005 has TD HP, massive difference especially when trading your clip for a shell.

@unique scaffold well that’s my point exactly, one is a support tank, the other can be an assault tank, so there’s no way the support tank makes the possible assault tank useless due to a better gun. The 4005 can be annoying, but it pays for its gun massively, there’s no way it should be able to drive up to an E 100 unpunished, the guy is isolated if so. The truth is if it doesn’t snipe it’s probably going to be trading HP all game, a HE shell or two for a whole clip. Remember, sniping isn’t camping, the 4005 might flank safely, but that’s not frontlining still. Possibly the spall liner allows for getting away with too much, but it undeniably still has massive trade offs for its great gun. Don’t forget also the consumables are useful, but you’ve only got 3 slots, so you can’t have two repair kits (paper tank so thatd be nice) and Ret cal, and speed boost, so they don’t get all the perks necessarily that they technically could.

Point is there carius, Both have 4 shells.. one has an ability that allows it to be an assault tank. while the other is a support tank rather than a heavy tank, The FV4005 can literally drive up to an E100 and put a clip into him and drive away maybe not taking a single shot in return. (Possible but not guarenteed) The point im trying to get across to wargaming. is that the tank is a SNIPER, Not a FRONTLINE tank. i see more 4005s at the front than in the back with its brother (FV183)

⏬ facepalm

[nimble zodiac]

Wait, you're trying to tell me that an autoloader, through and through, is supposed to snipe?

[unique scaffold]

Second line.. not 3rd or 4th. Supports i guess

[rare sleet]

Lmao are you saying the 183 should be at the back??? I find it way more practical and fun to have the 183 also at the front. Just because YOU see it as a back tactical camper doesn't mean people will play it like that, because eventually people find that they are way more useful when you play them more aggressively.

Yo by that logic me playing a 183 being able to hesh a tank in front of me for 1300 and pulling back without taking anything in return is op right? The point you're trying to get across to wargaming is that just because you think a tank is supposed to do one job doesn't mean players will see it that way. If you see 183s at the front does that mean the 183 is overpowered? Clearly with the sound logic you run by the 183 shouldn't be able to assault and do frontline tasks and instead MUST stay near the back @unique scaffold

Wait what about grille?? On paper it's supposed to be a rear support Tank destroyer right? But many people say it's much more effective frontline aswell, if you play it correctly. This must mean the Grille 15 is OP because it shouldn't be allowed to play that close to the frontlines and it Should be at the back. Man there are so many examples of tanks performing better than where they are "supposed" to be played at.

[rare sleet]

Wait this is actually hilarious, there are tons of lightly armoured TD's across all tiers which on paper again seem to be backline bush camper types of tanks, but often times performs very well in assault positions. Including:
Su130pm
Skorpion G
Hellcat
Su100y
ISU-152
Borsig
Charioteer
Kanonenjagdpanzer
Conway
JgPzIV
Steyr WT
St. Emil <-- this one works surprisingly well (I used to hate the st emil but after i got more aggressive with it, it has started growing on me)
Su122-54
Waffle tractor
^ Explanation is that TD's as a role are very versatile you can't just determine they have to be played one way because "light armor means no frontline"

[slender latch]

Ngl being top tier on 100Y can play like heavy with 530 alpha lol

[coarse carbon]

I’m betting it’ll be Strv, same as last year everyone thought they’ll put kpz 50t in Christmas because they tested it. But then 2 months before they announced they’re testing Concept. So

[remote oriole]

ISU-152‘s, Conway‘s and SU-122-54‘s armour are underestimated. The mantlet allows all three tanks to semi-reliably bounce shots

[unique scaffold]

Hey bro. I brought up that point two months ago. That exact same point. They will come barking at you and not understanding how insanely more powerful the fv is than the Amx 50b. Amx 50b has the biggest penetrable hitbox in the game and the second biggest he-able space before fv4005 without having spall liner. From the sides, it is indeed less durable than an Fv which is a scandal.

People don’t understand that to compensate this massive, huge weak hull, it needs a massively op gun. Which the fv has for example. I believe it needs the old accuracy + a 2.5 sec intraclip. It’s also the only way to make that current gun better than the old one. But they won’t admit it. It is the worst hit hull in the game yet they won’t admit it. It needs an extremely strong gun, accuracy, to compensate but they’ll say it doesn’t.

And don’t bring up the speed, it’s not that fast a,d most importantly sluggish, bad backing speed, bad traverse. That would compensate for like, the lack of some armor. Not for a huge autopen hull.

Alot of paper tank destroyer players (FV4005s deathstar's waffens Etc etc) were at the back, sniping doing tank destroyer things.. Grille and FV 183 players (from what i've seen) who drive up to the fronts (randoms and ranked) DIE first person doing ZERO damage. Yet when i see a grille or FV183 player sitting at the back they end up doing 2-3K+ damage. What are you trying to say. Heavies should be TDs or TDs should be heavies.

This is how i've learnt and always stuck with the positioning of tanks throughout my 7 years of playing this game:
Frontline: Heavies (tanks like E3 tortoise or badger are an exception)
2nd line: Mediums and lights (support incase a flank falls)
3rd/backline: TDs (Thin armour big guns)

THIS IS KNOWN

Its the default setup/basics that was made back in the day of world of tanks blitz (WOT PC included). Yet since the introduction of several meta breaking tanks. This was forgotten. Yet its still effective when its played right.

[unique scaffold]

Just because the 50B has a worse side hull than the fv (spaced armour) doesn’t mean it’s more vulnerable from the side. The fvs turret has less armour on the front than the 50b hull does on the side, the turret is still visible from the side obviously. It’s a continuous and large area (the fv turret) that’s way easier to HE than a strip of armour on the 50B which is partially covered by tracks.

[tardy aurora]

Panther I has become quite off of its original form.
Panther I needs a buff.
Because it is not that much fun like it was in the past.

[unique scaffold]

Yes but one is a TD and one a HT. What I mean is that FV is considerably better protected knowing from how far you can shoot, the accuracy, the pen, the camo.

50b needs a big bad buff, even and especially when compared to other ht's

[desert relic]

No, imo not quite a buff more like a rebalance. I think it would be fun to make a Pre-E 50, the kind of heavy medium. In other words a little better alpha but worse reload, good penetration average accuracy. About the armor, a stronger front, but sides stays weak plus overall good dynamics for it's size but not faster than average tier VII med

[potent coral]

Can I Have Buff Conqueror Top Turret Armour And Nerf Type 71 Armour?

[quick lichen]

This isn’t a restaurant

[potent coral]

What About Big Mac?

[scenic zodiac]

I’ve just realised how bad my countries inflation has erupted, it was 1zw to 1 usd in 2020, now its 1usd to 600zw.

I realised just by reading this message.

[lean gate]

Day 77 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[unique scaffold]

Well, I’m not saying the 4005 doesn’t have its own advantages as a TD. But HP is incredibly important, particularly for an autoloader, and 50B has HT HP while the fv has TD HP, big difference.

[spice raptor]

@unique scaffold You really mess it up, the whole 4005 line are suitable for the frontline (Except 4004). So why you need WG to change it? They are assault tank, and they can go anywhere they want to ambush the enemy, close support or something that an Assault tank could do

[rare sleet]

Ah that must be an Asia problem any competent player can do easy 3k while Front lining 183 and it’s a good deterrent because no one wants to poke a 183 point blank range because he’s going to hit you and it’s going to hurt

[burnt kelp]

Tvp 50 need be nerfed

[scarlet fjord]

4000 DPM 1300 alpha and 5 modules damaged and I didn't even get to adrenaline making ur 20 second reload 16 seconds

[shadow ledge]

agreed, doing 1240 dmg by 4.5 seconds is just unfair

[turbid ice]

Laughs in Double TVP Toon

[stiff kelp]

IDK in my experience when i take the 183 to 2nd line and it works perfectly, but something weird about the 4005 it can't play like a 183 (bc of the autoloader and considerably larger size) but they gave it a aggressive consumable (intraclip boost) that suggest to play it more close to the enemy, but in the other side without he she'll boost it doesn't have the gun to snipe, obviously you can use reticle but it have cooldown, the accuracy of the tank is pretty good but not for a sniping reliably, so you have a tank that gets punished if plays to aggressively but also it can't influence to much the battle at the back of the map, I rather think that im bad and I can't comprehend the tank but it seems people struggle to make it work too

[tardy aurora]

I will agree on the term of rebalance.
I think of it because panther I is a historical tank that has great assets which is similar to Tiger I
But Tiger I is still one of the strongest heavy in teir 7 tech tree. And can give some premium tanks hard time dealing with.
Where as panther I has become quite weak on its aspects.
It should be close to E50M stats. Like strong armor which will help brawl with or against teir 7 heavies and can play it like a middium. For the gun stats idk its good. But it will be nice if it can have 8 deagres of gun depression on the sides.
And the front plate should be stronger

[desert relic]

… yeeahh…… but it’s forgetting that Tiger I buff’s only reason is because generally, new players go with this line (I mean, they’re right these tanks are beautiful and iconic) but struggle with a tank that originally needed armor practice (check angles, analyse enemy’s firepower in order to decide whether to engage or not, learn that going second line isn’t always a bad thing etc) so devs buffed it to oblivion and new players doesn’t ruin everyone fun and their own fun.
Tiger I’s supposed to be a sort of Tiger 131 but a bit stronger in armor and firepower to justify the tier, that’s all (and no, I don’t care about your opinion about Tiger 131 it’s a really powerful tank)

[nimble zodiac]

Except it isn’t really

[ebon lynx]

Well, the Tiger I with its real values of armor wouldn't be good for t7.
100mm flat plate won't help you that much

[spice raptor]

The 4005 also have a small percente of inacuracy, instead of buy Retical Calibration, the player just go to the fronline

[thorny nexus]

Yes, I have 4005 And the Gameplay after update I must switch playstile

[lean gate]

Day 78 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[feral juniper]

waiting for the tvp and 4005 to be reverted day 1

[granite pebble]

Hello Yes, buff the Type 59 and T-54 Mod 1 please.

Give them more ammo, please, and maybe increase the Type 59 frontal plate by about 10mm or instead of increasing the armor give it about 1 more hp/t to make the mobility about on par with the T-44.

But please, god, please give the T-54 Mod 1 and the Type 59 more ammo if nothing else.
Oh and can the T-44-100 be given a bit more gun depression and better gun handling? Because it is quite literally worse than the T-44 in every single way except having a slightly superior turret, I don't understand why almost everything about the -100 is worse rather than having genuine tradeoffs. Already has worse mobility, which even with the difference not being big it's still going to be a massive difference in feel, so why not let it keep equal gun depression and at least having slightly better gun handling or just equal gun handling to the T-44-100.

All three of these tanks honestly fight for the title of worse 100mm gun user, not even gonna talk about the T-34-2 because that thing and the T-34-1, as well as Type 58 basically exist to be worse than their russian tech tree counter parts.

[granite pebble]

I'd also like to add that the T-34-3 is in desperate need of touch ups, probably more so than literally any of the other T-44 esc tanks, as the T-34-3 doesn't have good pen, DPM, gun handling and very average mobility that suffers heavily on soft terrain, and might as well touch up the STG a bit as well since its essentially just the T-34-3 except pancaked and given a rear placed turret.

These tanks don't need to be made OP but by god make them feel good to play

[verbal igloo]

the type 59 doesnt need an armor buff it needs a pen or dpm buff

[granite pebble]

The armor buff was in regards to the hull being brought up to being more like the T-54 Mod 1, if the pen or DPM wasn't going to be touched at all so that it could at least take on a similar niche as the Mod 1

[unique scaffold]

It’s got 7 degrees gun dep with a low profile and a strong turret, it’s far different from a mod 1 play style

[granite pebble]

The profile is basically the same, if not having a higher profile than the Mod 1, Mod 1 also has a strong turret albeit reliant on staying mobile, comparable DPM, worse mobility, except it has considerably better hull armor.
Type 59 even has comparable side armor to the Mod 1 so the Type 59 can even side scrape if the opponent doesn't know about the turret ring bulge on the sides.

Their playstyle really isn't far different, hence why I said a similar niche

[unique scaffold]

Mod 1 has a lower profile yes, but 7 degrees vs 5 is a huge difference, it’s the difference between hull down or not, changes the tank imo. Yeah mod 1 has great hull armour and turret armour, but it can’t really hull down comfortably, and it’s got a really bad top speed to pay for the armour. Type 59 has average speed with a pretty bad gun, it pays for having a strong hull down ability. Quite different imo.

Hull down and brawling are quite different, that’s pretty much the two tanks playstyles. Type 59 is a Russian style tank sure, but mod 1 is unique imo. The guns are quite similar, I think the mod 1 gun is a bit better but not a lot

[granite pebble]

I mean both tanks turrets completely fall apart to tank destroyers, they both completely fall apart to the prem ammo, T-54 Mod 1 less so due to relying on auto-bounce angles on the turret cheeks and moving back and forth. Im aware 5 and 7 degrees are very different in regards to what it allows you to do, but the general playstyle of the tanks are the same, with the T-54 Mod 1 just being able to turn it's brain off against some other mediums and give not a single care about them due to the armor.

Also keep in mind that the Mod 1 has a worse gun with only slightly better DPM than the Type 59 and comparable amounts of ammo. Both tanks heavily need a touch up, along with the rest of the T-44 esc tanks at tier 8.

[unique scaffold]

Keep it up bro someday they’ll hear us. Prog lacks dpm and accuracy, more so than it’s auto reloading system would deserve. An 8 second reload + that horrible accuracy on such a paper tank is just irrelevant. The should make the reload of the first shell 0.8 seconds faster (the dpm will still be bad don’t worry abt that) and bring the accuracy either to 9.0 or 6.3 state where it was alright and fittting with the tank’s playstyle. It’s not like this tank had the leo1’s accuracy lol.

[leaden flare]

obj 263 desperately needs some kind of change the tank is out of place on 95% of maps and cant perform or do a decent job anywhere

[thick rover]

I hope they buff on the move dispersion and adjust dispersion to be relatively bigger since they want us to play it like an assault td. At least let us play it in it's supposed role

[dreamy oar]

Kranvagn really needs a permanent speed buff to at least 35km/h. It is so difficult to move to different positions in time (without the speed boost), without taking damage sometimes. It's also not a super heavy, so it doesn't make sense for its current speed.

[quick lichen]

Or you could think 15-30 seconds ahead and where you want to be

[coarse carbon]

Also if you play slower tank like kran or some kind of super heavy you could be more aware what’s happening around you etc. Map awareness is also a key

[quick lichen]

I wonder what percent of people do that or do it well

[leaden flare]

the speed is more annoying in the endgame when youre having to run after the dmg 😂

[coarse carbon]

Well I’m trying to improve as much as I can. Learning about key positions, early spotting positions if I’m playing light tank, key positions to heavy tanks (according to strengths and weaknesses of tank what I’m playing rn) because flanking really isn’t an option, maybe if I’m playing T96E6 or something with really good mobility etc. personally I like mediums the most because they’re probably the most versatile class in Blitz in my opinion. Personally what I’m doing quite often is playing a replay of a battle to see what I did wrong, what I could do better etc. I think it’s much better than straight up blaming team for loss. I’m not saying I’m the best of players or something, don’t get me wrong, I’m just trying to improve, be more competitive etc. and actually it gives me a lot of fun.

[lean gate]

Day 79 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[twin egret]

How about we give you something else than a "buffed" virgetto 65? Something like the Chado de Combattimento 45t?

[proven drum]

Only 20k gold away

[upbeat sphinx]

Buff titan H-N
Buff The armour behind the track weel so that it can sidescrape like the Skoda t45.
If not bump the Power to weight ratio to 12 at least.
Skoda t45 is miles ahead of this tank, deserves some love because it's the worst Halloween tank ever released

[granite pebble]

Hello, yes, buff type 59 and T-54 Mod 1 ammo count please, by about 10 rounds so they can afford to bring HE for light tanks and other soft targets, and also bring the Mod 1's pen up to be 180 so it's on par with T-44.

[quick lichen]

What exactly is you ammo load out? Mine is 15-15-4 and for how slow the rof is, it’s plenty

[dapper cypress]

Maybe its time to buff those premium and collection tanks, which are evidently weak, so they would be at least average?

[winged barn]

You are telling me you dont run out of all of a shell types often?

And then we have the t34 3 running around with a 30/30/30 loadout.

Its insanely easy to run out of ap, apcr, or HE with your loadout.

Is your hit rate 100%?
Is your pen rate 100%?

Sure it's hard to go fully dry
Fully out of ap is really easy to do.
I guess imma be gold spamming the comet in front of me.

Depends on the enemies
If they give me easy side shots all match, no gold needed.
Top tier? No gold needed.
Meatshielding an allied tank while against frontally heavies? Gold spam.

It varies match to match. Running fully out of one type of ammo is insanely easy to do.

[quick lichen]

I’m saying you don’t need much for he with 34 rounds for a medium with a 280 alpha gun

The pen isn’t great which is why I run 15/15

If I’m having that good of a game then so be it but 15 shells is at least 3.8k with ap

Apcr is another 3k easy

The real numbers are 4200 and 3600… I gave lower ones for a reason

[quick lichen]

How many times do you only use one type with those tanks? Not much

I expect to switch between the two a lot so unless I’m doing 5k+ I’m not really that worried

It’s player preference. Maybe you’d go 20/10/4 then

What’s your set up then

[winged barn]

20 12 2
Still get really light on ap all the time, run out of HE almost every time I get an opportunity to use it, and run out of apcr on goldspam matches.

There is not a single way to get around the ammo capacity problems.

Does it add balance to the tank at all?
Nope. It just makes it really annoying to play sometimes.

Its purely a quality of life buff.

And if you are gonna go against it by saying "oooh realism" imma point straight at the t34 3 with 90 122mm shells in exactly the same size of tank

You are going "nah its fine" when it's clearly not lol

[quick lichen]

Idk why you’re so worked up about this

[nimble zodiac]

I'm gonna stake the funny argument that maybe you shouldn't be able to carry with all that damage, and play the team game as intended B)

[quick lichen]

34 shells is plenty to do at least 4-5k every game so if you need more than that…

[quick lichen]

If these guys can manage to average 2.5-2.8k with 34 shells, you can too

[winged barn]

How cute of an argument

Those people are gonna be running out of at least one type of shells every other game

[quick lichen]

I’m just saying, think of how many 4k+ games they had to average that

And they still managed

They’re tanks that have been forgotten from 5 years ago. Honestly it’s a little bit refreshing that there’s the challenge of conserving shells or making extra sure to pen your shots

[granite pebble]

stares at T-44 with essentially the same exact gun yet has more ammo and better rof What does it's RoF have to do with anything? And I carry 22 10 2. Also in regards to the argument you're trying to make, not buffing ammo count because... people do well in the tank makes 0 sense. I've been averaging about 2700 damage and have hard carried multiple games but that doesn't take away from the fact that the low ammo count feels really bad. I can't imagine what that tank would feel like for a worse player.
I think the tank is all around a pretty fun tank as it's basically a baby T-54, but the ammo count is... pain. Literally anything from around 5-10 extra rounds would make a massive difference for the tank along with the T-54 Mod 1, which ghe Mod 1 has it even worse considering the slightly worse pen and considerably worse mobility

Literally the only reason these tanks have such a low ammo count is because they're basically relics at this point.

[quick lichen]

My point originally was that you’d have to shoot for like 4+ minutes straight to actually run out of ammo… so that’s either a huge game or some accuracy concerns

My argument is that other people have done very well with the same limitations…

Worse. Players don’t stay alive long enough to run out is my guess so I really don’t think they care

[main tulip]

I don't really have an opinion on this, but it does make me wonder what it would be like if they made a tank with some slightly overpowered stats, but with low ammo count as a limitation

[willow hawk]

Of my 36k+ battles I don’t recall a single time that I’ve ran out of ammo in any tank, any tier, any event.
(Except in training room where I just mess around)

[quick lichen]

Back then that’s exactly what they did. The 215b had the same “problem”

[granite pebble]

I mean im not suggesting giving it 20+ shells I literally just want it to have about 5-10 extra shells so it doesn't feel like im taking away from my potential damage by carrying too many HE shells. Especially with the existence of spall liner completely invalidating the usage of HE shells for the vast majority of tanks and with russian and british lights for the most part not caring about HE.
It's not even that I'm suffering in the tank, but it would be nice to be able to comfortably carry a few extra HE shells to punish light tanks when need be without the chance of screwing over your main shell cant when there aren't those tanks that you can punish with HE.

[twin egret]

that's too much premium ammo to carry imo

[scenic zodiac]

Mate the prems are fine, they are all mostly over powered, like chimera, especially in the right hands.
The same goes for collectors, badger is a good example now.

If your struggling to play a prem/collector that’s a major skill issue.

[granite pebble]

You know they're talking about tanks that are weak right? Which they said, they literally said "buff those premium and collector tanks, which are evidently weak"

[scenic zodiac]

Ik they were talking about ‘weak prems’ but those are still better than the tech tree.

And a good player can make a bad tank work.

[main tulip]

Panther 88 is not better than Panther II
Object 260 is not better than IS-7/4
AMX 30b is not really better than any tech tree med
"Those [weak prems] are still better than tech tree" is just a false statement

Unless your claims are limited to the mod 1 and type 59

[scenic zodiac]

I did not consider those other ones, and yes, I was referring to those 2

[nimble zodiac]

8,8 is statistically better 👉👈

[slender latch]

Same goes for T-44-100 vs the T-44

[unique scaffold]

I run 18/8/6 on the mod 1, I don’t see any issue but I’m also not a great player. Don’t forget HE has more uses than just firing at paper targets. As mentioned above the 44-100 is far worse than the T 44, and especially if you add 3CRB into the mix it actually has zero advantages over the t 44, I have no idea what WG are thinking about it. T 44 is kind of good but balanced. You take away the advantages of a balanced tank without adding anything whatsoever really (ability to block HE and HEAT more effectively on the sides and slightly better effective armour for sidescraping but worse for sidescraping when it comes to auto rico angles) and you have the 44-100

[hushed crag]

when is carrot 45

[nimble zodiac]

When do you read pinned messages?

[unique scaffold]

If any tank is in dire need of a shell capacity buff, I'd argue that it is St.Emil, but I skip most of the grind using fun mode, so any defense I made is likely very weak

[spare scarab]

The game should have 2 tank destroyers per team max.
The game is so campy in tier 10. There are 3 tds in enemy team every game. Players don't require skill in playing td. They just sit in one place. This is very annoying in small maps especially.

[lean gate]

Day 80 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[quaint skiff]

Dear wg, PLEASE buff tiger 131,and pz 5/4 (dpm and armor) 🥺

[nimble zodiac]

Let’s not buff Pz. V/IV’s armor 😬

[prisma jetty]

But I need to seal club easier, I need a tank that works with my 1 brain cell

[main tulip]

Imo T57 heavy struggles with ammo more than any of those tanks yall were talking about
St Emil at least has no pramo, so you can allocate more HE

[lyric oracle]

Ok For The Waffentrager Upgrade Research To Buy?

[unique scaffold]

First, those question fit more in #general-blitz-discussion
Use Window + Shift + S to take screenshot, it kinda hurt to see your image
And also use detail stat view, those are much more helpful

[pallid nest]

Do not spam offtopic in random channels without reading the channel name.

[main tulip]

The reason I say that is because even though it has nearly an identical rate of fire and 2 more shells than the mod 1, it's much easier to rattle them off by comparison, and it also kinda needs to, since the T57 is a gun-focused heavy with low-ish alpha, whereas the mod1 is a high alpha medium

[coarse carbon]

What do you think about running Tier X Ho-Ri with only premium APs and about 5 standard rounds with just about 7-8 HE rounds? Personally I think because it has so little difference in damage output between standard and premium rounds I’m running way more premium than standard rounds. And also because it’s premium AP so with calibrated shells you’ve got 399 pen but you’ve got much more because of shell normalisation

[quick lichen]

Idk why you’d need to when it has really good pen for Ap

[unique scaffold]

That pen isn’t necessary most of the time, I know the alpha is really cool but it’s still a drop, and don’t forget it costs a lot of credits in a tier that’s bad for earning already. 300mm+ pen is already more than enough for most shots especially in a TD that’s a support tank a lot of the time.

15 alpha makes a difference, if you don’t think it does then Leo 1 could be put back to pre 9.1 without being nerfed (10 alpha increase) and E 50 M could go back to pre 9.1 without being buffed (10 alpha again but a decrease)

[coarse carbon]

So it’s only me I guess, I mean it’s cool when you can slap basically everything for 545 into face. But you’re right about it has great AP pen.

[quick lichen]

How many shells can it hold?

[coarse carbon]

50, that’s my shell layout. Do you think it’ll be better to have 20/20/10? I mean 13 shots is 7280 dmg, so because it has 50 shells in total it doesn’t make bigger difference when you’re running 20/20/10, I thought it has way less shells in ammo rack. Ofc it all depends how many shots I’m actually hitting etc, but I’ve never had problem with it, because Ho-Ri gun is just dumb on it’s accuracy, both stationary and on the move. And also if I can’t pen something I’m just slapping it with premium 🤷🏻‍♂️

[quick lichen]

I think realistically if you run 20/20/10 it’ll be near impossible to run out of anything

[main tulip]

why would you even run calibrated on that thing, it already butters everything

Edit: so 380 pen isn't nice?

[coarse carbon]

Yeah makes sense, thank you buddy. @main tulip because it has nice 399 pen on premium and 94 on HE with calibrated

[quick lichen]

I think a lot of times I’ve been just continuing to shoot standard ammo depending on what tank it is instead of he

A bunch of tanks that are actually thin just run spall liner so Ap ends up being as good or better without the risk of a splash instead of a pen

[orchid grove]

One thing I’ve been doing against paper tanks is I continue to load AP, but I aim directly at the gun. A fair portion of the time, you can usually break their gun, removing their ability to fire (lots of players don’t seem to realize a broken gun prevents you from firing), or at the very least causing them to take an inaccurate shot

[coarse carbon]

@main tulip 380 is plenty, I don’t know why, I’m running calibrated on most of my tanks. But I think you’re right with not running it on certain TDs, maybe even most of them.

[quick lichen]

That’s vengeance for all the he shots at grilles and waffles that hit their gun without doing damage

[unique scaffold]

AP still has a chance of bouncing on the gun though, although I generally just go for the centre when aiming and that tends to be the gun, I’d prefer to not risk a block for a possible broken gun. If anything firing HE at it is better, it’s a very high chance of breaking it, even if you don’t deal damage. What I’m trying to say is that I think it’s smarter to either concentrate on dealing damage, in which case fire AP away from the gun, or concentrate on breaking the gun, in which case fire HE at the gun and hope it deals some damage, even if only splash

[unique scaffold]

Wz 113 deserved the traverse rate buff without such a huge weight increase. It's almost pointless. Now it feels quite slow for a 255 pen heavy, they should have brought pen to 260 to compensate for this.

Your opinions?

I can only run it as Cali sadly

Yes it's so weird that so much of you didn't read the changes or missed that but yeah the HP/ton for insanely and drastically reduced.

Everything is related my boy thats called balance. Exemple 263 : you take all accuracy and you give armor. It's extremely f..k related lol

They increased the weight? Also don’t see how it’s “quite slow for a 255 pen heavy” they’re unrelated areas of stats lol

[nimble zodiac]

They’re not related in any other way other than being a factor of balance 🙄

WZ-113 is doing quite well now

It was an overall buff lol wdym

[ebon lynx]

The 113 has like 50t, it isn't slow if compared with something like a E5 or a IS-7.
When it comes to pen, is pretty fine, it's like the Type 71, considering i run rammer on it.
Just angle a bit and your armor works

[unique scaffold]

Yeah but armor bad, buff insufficient as it only buffed sides. They should have done the same with the front. Anyways run it with Cali it won't work otherwise

[unique scaffold]

Yeah of course they’re part of the balancing factors of a tank, but not really to be stacked against each other.
@unique scaffold it’s a very good tank right now, it’s not a super heavy so the upper plate isn’t the strongest, but it’s still quite decent, especially if you use a bit of gun dep. It’s got very nice mobility and fantastic DPM, great for running down meds with its superior armour

[quick lichen]

The bad traverse is it’s balancing factor. Always has been

[nimble zodiac]

Mfw it traverses faster than IS-7

[coarse carbon]

That’s why now I’d play 113 over IS-7 all day long. Btw what do you guys think about AMX 30B? For me it needs some love.

[jade cargo]

Gergő_offical#8171 has been warned.

[merry pelican]

buff t110e5 reload... 😢

[unique scaffold]

Feel weird WG nerf 30B top speed, sure it still fast but come on

[quick lichen]

It was a good trade. Mobility for a little bit of top end speed

[unique scaffold]

But AMX didn't get a mobility buff? I was talking about 30B :/

[quick lichen]

113. Not amx

[unique scaffold]

I fixed my comment earlier to make it clearer I was talking about 30B now. Still for a DPM buff why does it have to lost some top speed?

[safe rapids]

Never mind that it’s still the second fastest tier 10 medium tank…

[unique scaffold]

Yeah, I acknowledge that, but 30B wasn't a prime example of good tank before 9.0, otherwise that nerf would come sooner

[slender latch]

If you have over 100 mil creds and not care abt creds u could run 40 prem AP/10 HE with Cali it makes everything cheese even hull down especially a Maus angling lol

[unique scaffold]

On acceleration I presume you mean? So it’s faster than the Leo 1, Sheri, BC?

[safe rapids]

1. I said medium tank
2. meant in terms of top speed although it’s acceleration is still very good

[unique scaffold]

Sorry I’m going blind I guess. Well top speed is 60/62 now? I guess not many meds have that high a top speed, Leo 1, obj 140 have 60 and over.

[unique scaffold]

THIS

[upbeat sphinx]

Buff 100mm on Soviet/ Chinese meds at tier 8.
Give them 190/200mm of ap pen, 250mm of apcr pen, and 300 alpha. 280 alpha is no more high alpha

[unique scaffold]

It's still above the average 225 alpha, but still retains some dpm unlike 400+ alpha guns. Quite a good gun imo, I think AP pen should be left, it would be good if they got given 250mm APCR though

[unique scaffold]

Unpopular opinion, I want WG to buff HE alpha on 100mm gun, 350 is really disapointing coming from 300 alpha HE on 85mm

[pallid nest]

Nonsense. If the pen is not enough for you, then you have to play and aim better. They already have higher alpha than a LOT of t8 meds.

[unique scaffold]

225 alpha guns? They're mostly 90 mm aren't they? And I think HE alpha is only 270. But yes a HE alpha buff to 280 alpha guns would be great, along with pen, 50 mm isn't great, should be better to use HE on it. In fact 350 alpha is decent enough for a 280 gun, I think HE pen needs a small buff though, maybe 58/60

[unique scaffold]

Soviet/Chinese 85mm gun has 200 alpha with AP but 300 alpha with HE. I hope the alpha buff is between 380 up to 400. But unlikely WG going to do it

On another note, can we have 420 alpha gun (ex: ST-I, IS-4, Obj 260) have 550 alpha HE please?

[safe rapids]

Why exactly?

[proper hollow]

Ро

[upbeat sphinx]

280 is not that high when you have 90mm that deal 240 and have better rates of fire.
Btw 100mm guns at tier 8 have almost the same stats as the t 34-1 at tier 7. That alone shows why those guns are quite bad at tier 8

[pallid nest]

On T-34-2 you should be using the 400 alpha gun anyway.

[upbeat sphinx]

What's the point? I said 100mm at tier 8 on Soviet/chinese tanks mediums, or even lights ( type 59, t-34-2, t 44, t 44 100, t 54 first prototype, t 54 lightweight, Lt 432) can equip 100mm that feel underpowered currently.
Btw this is not the place to boast your stats

[lean gate]

Day 81 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[hard nebula]

Any thoughts on reducing the maximum amount of TDs per team to 1/2, i think it needs another change since the last time since now most of the TDs are either 183s, Jags and FV4005 which are all high alpha and seems like nobody sees it

[pallid nest]

T54ltw is one of the best t8 lights and its 280alpha gun sings. T-34-2 should not even be played with that gun. T54 prot has an okay gun, it is not alpha and pen that hold it back. T44 is doing fine and many people praise it. T44-100 and lt432 I do not play.

I dont care what you think of my stats, i show that the tank is totally fine and effective with the gun it has.

[unique scaffold]

Buff is5

[stiff kelp]

many tds can make the games more slow but idk sometimes their influence stop people from rushing, i agree that 3 tds is bad for a match

[quick lichen]

It’s not meant to be good. It’s meant to be cheap

[foggy rapids]

I in my opinion really think that tje Object 268/4 needs a major buff

[nimble zodiac]

It trades actual team value in order to bully isolated targets

[unique scaffold]

Because 500 is kinda disappointing in T10 when your med and td have better HE alpha in relation to it AP alpha

[rocky cove]

Waffle E-100

[nimble zodiac]

It also discourages HE splashing spam 🤷‍♂️

[unique scaffold]

One players stats do not equal proof of a tanks effectiveness. I could pull my Ru 251 stats up, care to see how horrible the tank is and how it needs enormous buffs? I agree the T 34 2 should of course run the 400 alpha gun and that’s it’s fine with it

[stuck acorn]

He is making a fair point tho. Look at the HE damage you get on 310 alpha meds. They get 420 at HE which is over 35% higher than their regular alpha.

Then when you look at for example IS-4 which is only 19% higher it seems pretty funny. That means that while firing HE you literally have over 50% of chance to get a damage roll lower than your AP max roll. Even in normal scenario that is bad. But true bs comes in when you are shooting a tank equiped with spall liner. Your damage gets lowered down to the point when it's more worth it to shoot AP than HE even if you have a guaranteed pen with both types of ammo. That's just dumb.

And in this situation we should also mentionm the KPZ which is porobably in the worst state. It has only 14% higher damage on HE than on AP. It means that around 70% of your shots will do less damage than AP could've possibly done.

That needs to be changed.

HE splash problem doesn't apply that much to any tanks mentioned by me anyway. 550 alpha HE won't deal any serious amount of damage without penetrating anyway. (It could apply to Kpz after HE damage buff for it, but in a tank that has such a ridiculously low reload i would be happy that he is firing HE without penning at me)

@nimble zodiac buffing underwhelming HE shells have nothing to do with heavy meta lmao. There are also many non heavy tanks equiped with 420 alpha guns like Wz-121, Su-122-54 or SU-101.

And daily reminder that HE is probably the only thing saving us from having a hulldown meta which is even more cancerous

[nimble zodiac]

Well, support the heavy meta, I guess 🤷‍♂️

And you wanna give it to mostly heavies, got it

[scarlet fjord]

Yeah concepts m4 54s 60tps krans really back off after splashing them a few times with the right gun
Specially 183 with the 500 alpha splashes

[nimble zodiac]

I mean, sure, I guess it’s fair to take the medium’s advantage of HE damage ramp-up away just so heavies can’t do their job as well.

Sounds rather… degrading to the game, really.

[lavish pebble]

Please donate some front armour to the IS-3

[prisma jetty]

Is an impenetrable turret not enough for you?

[lavish pebble]

Yh but the fron is paper thin. What im i suppose to do with that

Take away some of turret armour and put it on front or something

[unique scaffold]

Sidescrape

[brisk reef]

In soviet Russia the tank drives you

[ebon lynx]

Well, most 120mm guns have 515 he alpha, while the 122mm guns have 500, it wasn't supposed to have less

[real bison]

4k credits 💀
stock 💀
no equipment 💀
no prammo 💀

[upbeat sphinx]

Talking about he, the 105 derp gun on the VK 28.01 should be changed a bit, 67 ap pen is just unplayable, even the heat pen is worse than premiumum pen of tier 5 derps lords ( gargoyle, Nightmare, high score.
Just make it a little bit more interesting

[prisma jetty]

Just hull down.

[nimble zodiac]

You’re not supposed to use the derp gun

[scenic zodiac]

Gen let’s get back to studying business for igcse and stop saying the tank with the most broken armor (rn) needs a buff.

[lavish pebble]

Yh i do that whenever possible

[upbeat sphinx]

That's right, but still it could be fun time to time. Should have at least the same pen as the tanks I said above, nothing more. Then it can become the tier 6 t 49

[wicked quest]

That is not a good thing

[mossy beacon]

Is the Kranvagn dragon camo worth 1,475 gold?

[gleaming patrol]

The derpy one is funny But man its sooo painfull to play when you can bounce a hulldown Cromwell b

[upbeat sphinx]

Why not? It offers a f2p experience for everyone, it is not busted because tier 5 with similar stats already exist

[wicked quest]

T49 is not a p2p experience? And it can’t clap tanks for half their HP easily unless driven by a decent player a derp gun in low tier is the opposite especially against 5s

[stuck acorn]

it's just dumb

[stuck acorn]

This gun exists for you to use it. It should be usable as any other gun

[stiff kelp]

I mean you can still use the small gun, obviously you're not going to do big dmg to tanks but you have a better gun in almost every statistic

[nimble zodiac]

Way to imply that stock guns should be as strong as max guns 😳

[harsh cosmos]

Even if the pen was buffed on the VKs 105mm I still don't think it'd be over powered. It does like 280 average damage compared to most tier 6s which have 900+ hp minimum. Even against tier 5s it'd probably still be semi balanced if you gave it similar dpm and gun handling as all the t5 derps. At least give it 90 something pen like the mitsus 105mm. Plus 280 isn't that much more than the ~225 all the 90mms at t6 do.

[civic flume]

I don't understand why they buff t54 ,seriously what about T55A ? Do you know that is the worst tank all tier 9 ?

[unique scaffold]

I mean if Gargoyle exist in T5 I see no reason why VK28.01 can't have the same gun on T6
@nimble zodiac My suggestion was a kneejerk reaction again spall liner. And while it true that in mine initial suggestion I only list out heavy, I'm quite sure WZ-120/121, SU-122-54 and SU-101 also appreciate that buff (and 53TP exist in T8, so I don't think splash damage is that bad compare to all the 155/152 gun in T10)

[nimble zodiac]

I just think spall liner shouldn’t have been here in the first place 💀

It just makes every tank weaker to those HE shells, not just the spall tanks 😬

[unique scaffold]

I'm the same mind, but it is obvious that WG isn't going to remove it anytime soon, so atleast making these tank HE scary again is a compromise I willingly accept

[foggy rapids]

I in my opinion that the Object 268/4 needs a major armour and mobility nerf dunno if y'all agree

[unique scaffold]

But I haven't encountered anyone complained about 53TP specifically? And if someone managed to rear HE me then I hope he get his money worth out of that HE shot lol. About splashing, I think it a bit of a meme for 120/122 in T8 and up, otherwise there will quite a few complained

[unique scaffold]

Day 1 of asking WG to buff soviet/chinese 280 alpha gun it HE to 390, and buffing 420 alpha gun it HE to 550

[green perch]

You guys need to seriously nerf the t57s frontal turret profile. It’s among the best at tier X in terms of getting bounces

[unique scaffold]

It's just need normal color/armor viewing. Many tanks like Super Pershing has bugged ultra red zones that can be penned, or white zones that are bouncing off, also issue with track somehow eating shell even if it's in the middle of hull.

[green perch]

Yeah but that’s different. That’s mostly spaced armor. I know where to pen on the t57, and I can pen when I hit it, but if ur in Russian heavy or 60tp or something it’s very likely you’ll miss the spots and bounce

[crisp glacier]

Hi

[main tulip]

So you want it to be literally unplayable, got it

[foggy rapids]

Just neft the armour a bit because rn it is causing alot of problems u can't pen it unless u are in a td make it's lower plate weak and it's side armour slightly red and when we switch to heat or APCR it's an easy pen for every tank

[unique scaffold]

That's the downside of an inaccurate gun, T 57 has by no means got a solid armour profile. Just load gold if you're worried about hitting the weak spots, the turret just turns grey.
@foggy rapids so its strong vs AP but has weakspots vs prammo, isn't that balanced then?

[green perch]

Nah Ur right it’s armor is definitely balanced. Other tier Xs heavies totally shouldn’t be able to butter the turret of a tank that can dish out 1200 dmg in 4 seconds. Also this replay is completely corrupted, I was aiming exactly at the gray spots. And while we’re on it, why does the chieftain have low-end medium pen?

[unique scaffold]

I never said that they shouldn’t be able to, I said they can. Also idk about the replay being corrupted, you didn’t even scope a shot properly, you scoped out right before firing which often jerks the aimpoint off. It’s a bit troll so you just need to aim a little. Chieftain has a very accurate gun which in part makes up for the lack of pen, it’s made to bully meds so low pen makes sense. It’s certainly more than enough for the situation you were in.

[green perch]

No i shot bedore scoping out. Again, the replays horrific

[unique scaffold]

Well I can’t comment unless I can see what actually happened. Maybe your game is laggy and that’s the issue. But the T 57 is no more than troll

[main tulip]

you can always just load pramo or aim at the hull. The armor is overall worse than it was pre-9.1

[unique scaffold]

Yep, definitely worse overall

[green perch]

Which was broken. Armor profile just needs to go back to the 8.0 or whatever

[real bison]

T57 is troll enough to bounce some shots, sometimes you get lucky and bounce all 3 of the enemy T57’s shots, and pen all 3 of your own. But most tanks can easily pen a T57 turret

[unique burrow]

Guys… the T57 heavy I extremely balanced… also it isn’t knowed for his good turret Armor… hit is known for his unreliability turret and good Dpm

[drifting valve]

The kv 2 needs better armor or more damage

[nimble zodiac]

This mans did not just ask for more than 640/960 alpha in tier 6

[lean gate]

Day 82 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[marsh lava]

my man eplained the game's bad rng as a benefit for t57

[upbeat sphinx]

Don't angle your superstructure and you will only pen but high pen shells (340mm>>)

[twilit crystal]

A. Use more gold, B. Chieftan has garbage standard penetration because of the fact its APCR instead of AP. T57 turret has angles so AP makes a big diff

[foggy rapids]

@upbeat sphinx thanks for the tippy bro :)

[frail bane]

with gold in vk72 WG balance

[distant river]

Oh no this tank with very strong front armour has... Very strong front armour?

[uneven narwhal]

Said frontal armor also tends to disintegrate once the tank turns even slightly to the side
Seriously, 13 degrees or so to either side, and the cheeks become penetrable to 230mm AP

[turbid ice]

Just circle him to pen the sides
Yes it got a strong armor frontally but it’s not impossible
@frail bane In VK. 72? Eh not sure but you can definitely pen this
Just use HE if you can pen with AP/HEAT and follow what Ence said

[frail bane]

i spam him HE yes but that ridiculous really @turbid ice

[scarlet fjord]

The 57s armor might be a little too strong yeah
I mean for how much firepower it has

[drowsy plaza]

Any Med can pen it easy if you aim. It’s hardly an issue.

[unique scaffold]

57 isn’t a problem m8 it’s your play style and skill, sorry but that’s the hot take.

268v4 is a frontly strong tank, the hatch on the easy pen if you are face hugging. Other issue with that is it’s OBJ’s pen is more akin to a heavy tank not to the degree of a normal teir X td.

[scarlet fjord]

U don't get his point I think
Majority of people struggle to pen my 57 and it's my best performing tier 10 atm
While it has insane firepower
That's why I thought it was a bit strong

[night geode]

why E4 get nerfed back to 9.2 after today's drop?(HE pen)

[stuck acorn]

This is not a stock gun lmao. This is an alternative gun. Stock gun is the T5 76mm

And nobody said it needs to be as good as the top gun. It should be just usable

[safe rapids]

tEchNiCaLLy iTs tHe 7.5 cm KwK 40 L/48 but I digress

[prisma jetty]

All guns are useable as long as they are researched you have a turret compatible with them.

[nimble zodiac]

If it wasn’t, why is it often used?

[unique scaffold]

THEY LISTENED TO ME. BOTH MAUS AND T110E5 ARE GETTING A PBR.
i asked for at least 2 tier X pbrs every update, ideally 3, to keep up with tank company.
I asked newt pbr to be t110e5 and Maus because both feel like they should have a decently stronger armor. I pray they made the cheeks a real struggle to hit on the Maus, and basically everything harder on our poor, low DPM, slow and sluggish, and actually terribly easy to pen, t110e5

I mean there's no way it makes e5 relevant again that thing needs a VERY good PBR and 200 dpm

[prisma jetty]

E5 is definitely not sluggish…

[unique scaffold]

It is lol. I can't stand the ppl calling it a heavium and saying mobility got buffed.

Horse power /ton got nerfed and it feels real bad.

Maximum speed was indeed brought to the heavium threshold (42) but you just won't hit it. It's not sluggish compared to E100 but it's sluggish when you understand it should be slightly faster than an mk6.

[upbeat sphinx]

Buff TS 5 hitpoints.
If rhm can have 1150 hp then the assault TD should have at least 1350.

[prisma jetty]

Maybe it’s you who should understand that it is indeed slightly faster than the Mk. 6.

[unique scaffold]

5 degrees of traverse is bigger than the HP/ton increase sadly. That's a part of the big problem.
That's why I used the term sluggish and not slow. When in game it indeed feels slower than mk6 because a decent traverse is more important than 1 additional effective HP/t

Anyways they probably won't change those stats so what we ask for is a good DPM and armor.

Point was that you can't say the mobility is a peculiar asset when so many other heavies have Both a better armor and actual mobility (looking at type 71 for exemple which also should be slower if you only check for HP/ton on blitzstars without checking the traverse speed with track equipment.)

[prisma jetty]

You used both slow and sluggish. It is neither of those. It is mobile for a heavy, with a stupidly accurate gun that lets you keep moving while shooting, lessening your weakpoints.

[subtle mica]

The angry conner sucks

[unique scaffold]

@austere citrus

[nimble zodiac]

Well, they probably just did whatever they planned to do, regardless of your input x-x

[pallid nest]

I see no red areas, what are you crying about?

[subtle mica]

Its color blind mode

[pallid nest]

was sarcasm

[unique scaffold]

Well hang on, E5 has far better armour than the MK6 both on the hull and the turret, in every way except for the lower plate maybe being slightly smaller on MK6. It’s the gun that holds the MK6 up, along with half decent armour and decent mobility. E5 is just lacking in the gun(dpm or alpha, cause accuracy is amazing), it’s otherwise superior. (Not as much gun dep, but I’m just comparing mobility and armour).

[subtle mica]

@pallid nest seeing the people that play this game its hard to tell

[fickle glade]

a platoon of TVP's shouldn't be allowed tbh

[silk geode]

Sadly WG don't listen and just buff his mobility,but maybe WG want E5 become like Patton with stronger armor

[unique scaffold]

E5 has better armour than the patton, do you mean "like the patton will get stronger armour with PBR"? I don't know if either tank will get improved with PBR, I heard a rumour that E5 gets a worse turret with an easier to hit cupola (flashbacks right now) but that it gets a better lower plate, at the same time as a worse strip in between lower and upper plate. We don't know is the truth.
Possibly, although those weakspots are far smaller than they look in that screenshot.

[silk geode]

Maybe weak spot on the cheek will be Disappear so Dev add weakspot in capola

[merry pelican]

buff the reload ☝️😅

[unique scaffold]

Because slapping LT for 410 is fun ngl. But because Gargoyle, High Score and Nightmare exist in T5 that ship had sailed long ago. WG can nerf it AP alpha down to 290 it they must

[thorn falcon]

seeing that the pharaoh is going to come out soon, that it will be another tier Vll autoloader, they should change the "UM PREDATOR" collector tank, to a premium tank, and thus more people would use it now

[subtle mica]

What

[neat crescent]

What

[unique scaffold]

It is decently mobile but not fast as ppl like to say. Type 71 is faster, obj 260, t95e6, amx50b, concept 1b. Those tanks are "fast for a heavy". Then the tanks that are really mobile are wz113, wz111 5a, mk6.
T110e5 is below that. If you owned those tanks you would know. I own every tier X and I can tell you that t110e5 is just a super classical heavy the most plainly normal you could imagine, except since 9.1 it has still trash DPM but the fv215b's accuracy. They should increase the DPM by 200 at least to make it viable, as well as an armor buff.

[silk geode]

Why WG not make E5 mobility more like Patton, I mean Patton and E5 almost have similarities

[unique scaffold]

No way. Both turret and hull traverse have a paramount importance in comparing both tanks.
So even in mobility it's not as good. As for armor a good player in a chieftain will bounce less than a good player in a t110e5, but not that much less. Overall i favor the chieftain because of the low profile, the depression, the huge DPM, the turret that is very troll if you wiggle, the extra traverse speed, and the beautiful hesh pen.
E5 got an interesting niche role with the accuracy change but the successive armor nerfs has let it quite easy to pen when compared to real sturdy tanks.
It just needs 200 more base DPM (and it'll still be a bad-average DPM lol)
And a decent armor. The lower plate should be slightly more trollish and not autopen, and the hatch should stay the same. That would be enough, but they could also make the sides stronger and let the plate weak. I'm eager to see what they did.

No @silk geode as they have shown during the update they want to make the tank a less mobile tank with more accuracy. Only thing I ask i return is more DPM and armor.

Some keep claiming that it is a heavium it isn't it is a freaking average heavy, because of bad terrain resistance values and very bad traverse. Also the accuracy is much worse on the move than fv215 so that's also accounting for the no heavium status. It's intended to stay slow. But considering the traverse it is hard to use the armor well. Consequently they should buff armor nicely

[slender latch]

Not sure if WG would be willing to give back its special consumable turbo pre-nerf

[hushed crag]

e5 need some buff

[gleaming patrol]

But not to op

[quick lichen]

We do not want or need that

[prisma jetty]

Type 71 is only faster with the sus equipment which is broken. 260 doesn’t have as much armor. E6 is very strong right now, definitely needs a nerf. 50B doesn’t have near the gun nor armor E5 has. Concept has the same effective p/w, just slightly better top speed and better traverse. 5A and 113 both have slightly better top speed, worse effective p/w on medium terrain, and the 5A has slightly worse traverse while the 113 has slightly better traverse. I’m not even going to comment on why the Mk.6 isn’t as mobile seeing I’ve already proven it isn’t.

[unique scaffold]

What’s this consumable, the super speed boost? Seems like E5 needs it, no? It was only just removed in 9.1

[orchid grove]

Mk 6 has pretty mediocre mobility. It’s faster than super heavies and the 215b, but that’s pretty much it

[unique scaffold]

^not sure why people class it so high in the mobility class, it’s decent but far from the top.

[unique scaffold]

Can WG buff IS-6 UFP to 160? Let driver hatch has current value

[prisma jetty]

Nah

[silk geode]

Why E5 is much shorter but slower even with T57

[unique scaffold]

Just the UFP, cheek armour don't need any buff, If it is buff to 150~160 it would atleast stop higher tier med and heavy going through on flat ground while still have an obvious weak spot in the shape of driver hatch

[prisma jetty]

E5 is faster than T57.

@unique scaffold Just angle. IS-6 has some wonky side armor that lets you angle wit quite a bit of room for error

[silk geode]

I only got 33km not 42km

[twilit crystal]

It does have solid reverse speed though

[prisma jetty]

It can go 42 🤷‍♂️

[lean gate]

Day 83 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[twin egret]

I mean it has pen no? 374mm with heat with cali

[nimble zodiac]

You’re asking for it to be 300mm effective against AP? Are you crazy?

[unique scaffold]

Yes, I admit I am greedy, I just don't like that with a slight angle it UFP is paper to newer T8

[pastel timber]

Will crew 2.0 and equipment 2.0 ever get added? They feel too simple ngl

[unique scaffold]

Man doing god’s work, but about old tanks that get rest, there’s also the wz-113 suffering. Slower, less traverse rate, less alpha, less pen, and much worse depression and armor than the wz 111 5A which is a fair and strong tank.

Noobs remember 113 from the strong times so they will say it is balanced, but no. It backs and turns too slowly for such a sheet of paper armor. any tank will pen the front. The sides got buffed but that’s barely useful. No depression makes the dpm hard to use; worst penetration makes it impossible.
You have to somehow be fast to use such a low pen low armor tank. But it’s not really fast anymore and the traverse was just slightly improved.
Turret is an easy apcr pen.

It has to run cali which makes it have only 3200 dpm and then it is like a worst Fv 215b, way less accurate and irrelevant in pretty much any position (can’t shoot in depression, can’t bounce in any other position but sidescrape).

[real bison]

you can sidehug German heavies and watch them seethe

[slender latch]

113 is good now don't know bout you

[unique scaffold]

6 degrees gun dep is fine, with a low profile it’s plenty to hull down. It’s a very decent tank, rips apart meds. Enemies are forced to fire prammo at you a lot, decreasing their DPM against your great one, especially as your prammo DPM is fantastic if it comes to that

[neat crescent]

Tell me you haven't played wotb for a year without telling me you haven't played during this year

[main tulip]

less alpha than the 5A 🤣

Oh wait I brainfarted, thought it was the other way around
But 113 is way better lmao

[unique scaffold]

I mean he right, 420 is indeed less than 460, don't know about the rest though @@

[sour moon]

Can u icrease hull amor of Lowe? This hull IS a bad joke 🥲

[meager jewel]

It’s a paper panzer wasn’t even produced

[unique scaffold]

neither was the e100, vk72, vk45,grille15,e75,e50m

[prisma jetty]

Well E100 was having its hull built

[ebon lynx]

113 is a very strong tank
Less pen than the 5A? 5A only has better AP pen, for only 5mm, the heat pen is only 303 while the 113 has 335.
It isn't suffering

[nimble zodiac]

Löwe’s armor is fine

Not if you use it correctly

[sour moon]

Lol, this hull it’s paper 🥲

[upbeat sphinx]

The 5a has worse hull armour than the 113 for sure, the turret cheecks are not a huge deal.
The 113 is fine in the current meta

[main tulip]

imo the improved control equipment should be changed to increase top speed and reverse speed instead of traverse, would help tanks like the Maus a lot

[main tulip]

also what even is first states of prog65 "update 6.3"

[leaden flare]

you sound like a massive noob, no offense but seriously you have no clue how to play if you say "only 3,2k dpm" well that only 3,2k is the 2nd best heavy dpm and even beats mediums depending on their loadout and it beats TDs
the pen isnt that bad either and can easily be worked with
the armor is also good and the ufp is amazingly strong if angled correctly

[nimble zodiac]

I don’t believe top speed should be changed with equipment, since it would further meld heavies into driving mediums out of meta

[obtuse dune]

hellooo

[quick lichen]

The 113 has never been stronger than it is now. Between you and @unique scaffold I can’t tell who has worse ideas or takes on things

I would think after a while of everyone disagreeing with you and saying you’re wrong it would sink in

[stiff kelp]

I mean not all, against heavys of the same tier obviously you'll be penned in the lower plate, against meds and lights it's pretty much unpennable (it's a smaller area to hit) until they load gold and still they'll have problems penning a good player in the Lowe

[nimble zodiac]

I know it's a somewhat old screenshot, but Lowe holds strong in maps like Himmelsdorf, and in many other maps due to convenient cover for the lower plate, even against a respectable gun like Lowe's

[distant river]

^ and that's not even using gun depression, against CS ISU prammo with no EA...

[meager jewel]

Will France get a Chaffee?

[main tulip]

why

[pallid nest]

No, france will get a Chespresso

[winged barn]

Those cheeks though

Trollish at best

[nimble zodiac]

Nothin like good ol' moving around. It's not even that bad to do, because the gun is so accurate :D

[sudden drum]

no

[high flax]

Im probably gonna get bullied for this, but the current stock guns on the T-34-2 suck. It can't even stand a chance with most of the tanks at it's tier... I try using the one with better pen, but when i tried to get a hit as i was flanking a KV-5, all I saw was red on the sides of the turret and the hull... And so far, the grind for the turret research has been a nightmare.

[nimble zodiac]

Gotta get past the stock equipment. It’ll be more forgiving when maxed out

Well, usually people skip the painful stock grinds by maxing their tanks out with free XP

[high flax]

That's the thing. It seems like the game is doing everything it can to make the grind as painful as possible. Heck, even the first match of the day with it, I got insta ammo-racked by a P.43 bis within the first 1-2 minutes without me getting a single hit... Im surprised I didn't chuck my phone across the room when that happened.

[safe rapids]

Do you have the 100 mm from the T-34-1 unlocked
You should have it and it’ll make your life easier

[main tulip]

yeah, iirc that gun has 175 pen, which isn't far off from something like the T69 which has 180mm on its top gun

[safe rapids]

160 now, it was nerfed on the T-34-1 to compensate for an aim time buff
It affected the T-34-2 as well

[unique burrow]

The question is, why France, don‘t get mediums

[main tulip]

batchat line are mediums on PC, and the AMX 30s are tech tree on there as well
just blitz being weird/greedy

[slender latch]

Tbh it kinda is powercrept right now in terms of armor since Tiger 2 buff and Chi Se release
*but it has the highest credit coeff in tier 8 so that makes up for its poor armor?

[fossil marten]

Just been playing a lesser used tier 6 medium and the penetration disparity for tier 6 mediums is pretty broad. At the top end you’ve got the Sherman Firefly with 171mm and then the Bretagne and Pudel at 160mm and 150mm, but the bottom end you’ve got the Strv74A2 with 135mm and even worse, the tier 6 Sherman’s, the Fury, Lozza and E8 at 128mm. Given they face tier 7; Smasher, Anni, Black Prince to name just three, would seem some tier 6 mediums could do with a pen buff? 🤷‍♂️ The tank I played, one I haven’t used in ages was the T-34-85 Victory, which back in the day was a brilliant tank, but that’s only got 128mm of pen despite being an 85mm and basically I just had to spam gold at pretty much everything. Seems these tanks could use some love from WG? 🤷‍♂️
(Yes I know, get gud! Flank, blah blah blah)

[unique scaffold]

It is not a good tank lol. Even the winrate on blitzstars is bad which was your way to prove things before.

Idc about @unique scaffold but my opinions are better than yours. You say Maus is balanced which you should be ashamed of alone.
Wz113 indeed is slightly under average and no, it is not better than ever which is a blatant lie. It is slightly better than before 9.1 where it was irrelevant due to traverse speed. But a long time ago it also had the good traverse speed. Back then it was really fast ,which was one of the suggestions of @unique scaffold to buff it.

It is indeed not the most urgent tank to buff but in no way as fair as wz111 5a which has a great great gun and depression, but pays for it in armor and traverse. I wouldn't say 5a is op, it is average-good to me. So 113 could be as good. It would be great. Because for people owning both like me you end up playing only 5a. The mobility is similar but one of those two tanks has a trans armor, lacks penetration and depression and is praised by op-tank spammers who love to spam easy AP into the frontal plate without trouble

[quick lichen]

You’re forgetting that blitzstars is career… which doesn’t include the 2-3 significant buffs it’s received. The 113 now is the strongest it’s ever been with the traverse buff and history of dpm buffs. It’s perfectly fine as is but it “suffers” statistically due to less experienced players thinking it’s an is7 with dpm. It’s not and like the 260, will die quickly when put in a role it’s not meant to be in

Also. I’ve looked back as far as blitzhangar goes to see when the 113 had gotten a traverse nerf(which I knew never did) and it turns out the traverse speed now is the fastest it’s ever been

[leaden flare]

The 113 is a brilliant tank that bounces absurd amounts of shots after the ufp buff
The dpm of a med is also insane as it has 3,4k dpm if equipped right since you pretty much don't need cs in random battles even tho it has apcr
The tank has received pretty much only buffs and I have it pretty much since its release and it has never been better

@unique scaffold consider the point that you just have no clue how to angle a 113 and wz5a only has more ap pen the prammo is much worse iirc as it only has 303mm base heat while 113 has 330 iirc and 113 also has more dpm much more dpm

[quick lichen]

I tested the tank and it had terrible traverse when we were testing and everyone asked to buff the traverse and wg decided to buff the dpm instead lol

[orchid grove]

I was fine with the DPM buff decision. Without it, it would have been a cooler looking, but worse E5

[lean gate]

Day 84 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[turbid ice]

Motivation, but at what cost ?

[quaint raptor]

why are they keep making thick armoured tank like 71 and minotauro but with bad gun accuracy? do they think its fun to just spam heat not even hitting well?

[nimble zodiac]

Type 71's not even that thick, it's just angled

[nimble zodiac]

Unfortunately you posted this in the absolute wrong channel, my guy

@quaint raptor It's just not thick. Sure, thick relative to mobility, but I just mean by nominal armor

[quaint raptor]

@nimble zodiac for srsly? 71 isnt that thick?
While looking at the synergy between that thick armor and mt-like mobility?

[austere zenith]

Hello

[safe rapids]

It’s the whole new doctrine of tanks in blitz, which has made its way onto PC also.
“Awful to play, awful to play against”

[quaint raptor]

oh yeah thats what I wanted to say, you must be a genius.
but anyway, those kind of meta, not funny at all.

It’s like Devgru and delta force gets fight with bb gun.

[solid scaffold]

i mean, premium tanks were supposed to make credits, not OP or broken and the Lowe while not being among the best tier 8s is definitely not bad. Also for me, looking at the credits i gained after a game is probably more enjoyable than playing a fun/strong tank

[queen summit]

the new ability to mad games, made every tank that got it less fun

[unique scaffold]

I propose WG give Maus VK90 gun, that surely put a stop of anyone complaining Maus's gun is underwhelming (disregarding that alot of them is correct and why WG still has reverted Maus's accuracy nerf!?)
Also, 550 HE for 420 alpha gun when?

[quick lichen]

Okay. Then nerf the maus’ hp and armor thickness

[unique scaffold]

In exchange for revert accuracy nerf or VK90 gun?

[quick lichen]

Either

You can’t have the armor of a maus and the highest hp and expect to have a good gun lol

[unique scaffold]

Understandable, I prefer being able to hit back meanly, so I guess I take VK90 gun?

[quick lichen]

Congratulations. You’ve created another vk90 that’s just bigger

The reason why the maus has a bad gun is in part to make it different. You have to play closer for the gun handling to work. The whole purpose is to absorb/block damage, not to deal it

[coarse carbon]

Bruh 113 was farming simulator before 9.1… now it’s farming simulator what actually can turn. If you’re saying 113 is bad, it’s just you. How about get good? Maybe this tank isn’t for you.

[unique scaffold]

Cool, although if you read my original comment again, mine main gripe is mostly accuracy nerf. And beside, according to this suggestion, it still a worse VK90, not a bigger one?

[real bison]

yeah if they didnt nerf the accuracy the average maus player would still be redline camping (they still do as superheavies as a class do not punish bad players)

plus you can always use refined gun

[quick lichen]

Worse and bigger can both be used to describe it

The maus doesn’t need a buff. Idk how else to say it. If the gun isn’t hitting shots, you’re too far away

The main “problem” is that the vk90 is just plainly a better tank

[orchid grove]

WG should bring back Maus meta. Undo both the HP and accuracy nerfs, and then buff the gun handling and DPM on top of it.

Or at the very least just undo the totally uncalled for HP and gun nerfs

[unique scaffold]

@real bison I mean it should atleast be able to have a chance to hit Type 71 and Minatora weak spot without have to be face hugging, is that too much to ask? It is unlikely WG is going to stop release simiiar tank in the future, it not as if Maus have sniper gun in the first place
@quick lichen I would say current Maus may benefit a rework-ish? Feel like it lost too much for that armour and HP, I'm fine with HP and some armour nerf for better gun handling

[real bison]

or you could simply nerf the Type 71 and Mino to have actual cupolas

[quick lichen]

The type really isn’t broken anymore. Every other 400 alpha gun has more dpm and most all of them have faster speeds too. Cupola nerfs are a great start

[main tulip]

Doesn't the E5 have the same dpm

[light ivy]

There's no reason to play the maus anymore, it sacrificed its mobility and gun handling for armor that got outdated because of the new meta tanks like the type71 that has most of the things the maus needs.

[coarse carbon]

Well I think vk is the biggest reason here. What’s the point of playing maus if you’ve got 90.01?

[lusty bluff]

Cupola is already huge on 71…

[lusty bluff]

Turret cheeks are weak and hull is cheese when u prammo

[lusty bluff]

@main tulip crybaby

[merry pelican]

🤡

[nimble zodiac]

Hull is cheese when you use prammo? Who could've guessed? I was hoping that prammo isn't supposed to have a purpose

[main tulip]

prammo obviously exists for rich people to waste their credits

[slender latch]

I thought prammo exist to reduce aiming at weakspot

[real bison]

as it stands now, prammo is now used to make weak spots because WG has forgotten how to make them

[wicked quest]

It is not cheese at all the other day when I was suffering playing all day in various tanks 4005-concept 1b with CS and Leo 1 conc struggled bad with gold on its front plate and Leo was entirely cherry ti everything except the minuscule lower plate

[unique scaffold]

Are you saying you’re running CS on your Leopard 1? Even though I wouldn’t describe it as cheese, it’s a very weak upper plate for a heavy, due to having a ridiculous auto ricochet lower plate.

[lean gate]

Day 85 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[merry pelican]

💀

[neat crescent]

Take note though that weak spots made by PRAMO instead of wg are 200% bigger and easier to hit 🗿

[lusty bluff]

Yep ufp is fairly weak if you get into facehug, use gold ect. Turret has weaknesses on cupola, cheeks, and right above the hull. The hull has really noticeable weakness on ufp both shoulders are pre angled weak points, and driver hatch as well. You need to be running the equipment to have any depression. Also 400 alpha and worse gun handling than the is-4? Why are people crying LOL.

[light ivy]

Well, vk has reticle calibration and it's armor works better than the maus and it's also smaller and faster and more accurate and has 289 pen, maus is just a big slow target that can't shoot back because of accuracy and is butter for every TD and every HT with HEAT, and every medium now can circle it more easily because of the traverse nerf.
In many situations I wasn't able to hit tanks that are even 80 meters away, and couldn't get close otherwise I would get shredded by TDs, it's also funny that maus is even more inaccurate than the E100.

[slender latch]

I think it's safe to say E100 does Maus' job better than the Maus itself after the traverse and turret buff

[queen oriole]

Pls buff pen. on is7

[nimble zodiac]

Buff the only actual downside?

[unique scaffold]

I agree the Vk 90 is better, but just to point out that Ret cal on it is useless, it’s merely a gimmick that I doubt many people run, so shouldn’t be considered when it comes to balance.
Not sure if you run it, and you may be able to make it work for you, but it’s still a gimmick, running an extra repair kit is undoubtedly better IMO, especially when you consider it’s made for sidescraping, and there’s always a chance you expose the front of the drive wheel by accident.

[turbid ice]

He’s not ?

[quick lichen]

Crying~ to give valid critique or opposition

[twilit meteor]

bozo

[main tulip]

This dude really @'d me to call me a crybaby

[silk geode]

NERF driver hatch on type 71

[glass wharf]

Only downside? Bad accuracy, horrible premium pen... The pen Is not an issue for me, only the accuracy..

[nimble zodiac]

The accuracy is fine for a 130mm, and the pen is literally the downside I was talking about. 🙃

If it really holds you back, run refined gun

[twilit meteor]

1. what is your pfp
2. you are contributing nothing to tank balance by sending these messages
   3.IS 7 doesn't need a pen buff as a meta tank

[unique scaffold]

If anything, I take reload buff just to bully med more, doesn't mean it a good idea for WG thought
Now, 550 He for 420 alpha gun when WG?

[uneven narwhal]

Yeah HTs obviously need more buffs

[unique scaffold]

After all, why not making those gun hit spall liner equipped tank harder

[uneven narwhal]

Spall Liner needs a removal, the HT guns don't need a buff

[fleet heron]

No,i think the spall liner has added a purpose for the really light tanks and paper tank destroyers even tho it bothers all of us(including me) when we HE a grille that has a spall liner,but at least now when we play the grille or the bc for example we wont get the rages of getting HEd by tanks like 183 or e100 all the time so i think its good. Also if they nerf the spall liner then the He will still deal more than the AP which doesnt match the purpose of the spall liner

[uneven narwhal]

The lack of armor makes you play the tank more cautiously, SL shouldn't be there to slap a band aid on one's absence of skill

[fleet heron]

U still play carefully on light tanks cuz u can get hit by AP all the time since u dont bounce anything and there is no guarantee that someone will HE u instead of shooting AP but it will give u more effectiveness as a really bad armored tank so u would get less punished compared to before

[slender latch]

WT pz IV was pretty strong before now with spall it became better I remember the guy that placed Top 1 in Diamond ratings league basically spammed WT for the entire season

[stuck acorn]

WT was just good, then it became really strong after grille line rebalance many years ago, then itn became broken after they added the spall liner and now after 2 nerfs it is just meh

That's how super trashsumables destroy fine and fun vechicles. WT was really strong, but required skill to play. Then they decided to make it completly braindead by giving it spall liner for no reason. It was obvious it will sooner or later get striked with massive nerf.

It's literally same story as FV 215b and E5 at some point

[brazen sequoia]

Personally I think that the spall liner itself should be nerfed: it reduces 20% damage on he, that means that most mediums actually will do less damage with he than ap (ad example the Leo 1 does 420 on he, but -20% it’s 336, which is less than the alpha on AP).
The result is that in general it’s useless to shoot HE on most tanks because the tanks with no armor almost all have spall liner so why take the risk of hitting the track and deal splash damage if you know that you will deal less damage than with AP?
The only reason you would do that is only if you try killing the crew

[main tulip]

the Leo does 400 with HE, it's pretty scuffed

[lunar niche]

Spall liner would have been fine as an equipment choice. We had that in the old equipment system.

I wouldn't be suprised if binoculors returns as an exclusive equipmemt for new lights/meds.

Didn't we have improved suspension of the japanese heavies in the old equipment system? I vaguely remember something like that.

[jade cargo]

DyLan#6834 has been warned.

[light ivy]

Ik it's wrong but I run reticle calibration and 2 repair kits, should be using adrenaline but somehow this one is working

I'm just gonna keep going with it 😂

[unique scaffold]

Yeah, as I said it may work for some of you, but I think we agree it’s objectively worse.

[lean gate]

Day 86 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[drowsy plaza]

No German tanks had growsers, mobility and gun stat benefits. But nothing like the mobility or extra GD options like exist now for the Japanese heavies.

[quick lichen]

.warn @sullen copper don’t stat shame

[scarlet fjord]

IS-7 is this chad tank that doesn't give much of a damn what's shooting at it while going 45 getting to itt rather quickly just to add that In there
And you want to buff that?
It's already one of the better tier 10 tanks literally a Chad tank bouncing jags sideways while yoloing (seen bots doing that all the time) takes 0 skill to yolo in it
Sorry it's an amazing tank u have brilliant mobility use that to fire AP at everything instead of lowering ur dpm and alpha

[karmic mountain]

Nerf T110E3 And T110E4 Armor.

[brittle jay]

E4 is one of the worst armored tanks in t10 💀

[karmic mountain]

Visible confusion
Oh, 200mm cupola
And Its big

[thorn falcon]

They should change the tank "UM PREDATOR" from collector to premium again

[fickle glade]

nerf 4005 pls

[dreamy oar]

So I got a question for y’all. IMO I think that most 90mm-l low tier 122mm guns pen should be buff. What do y’all think should most low tier guns like the Pershing’s 90mm and the t-44 100mm pen should be increased. I feel like their max pen cap should be 200mm. Do y’all think these guns should have their pen increased or naw

[safe rapids]

Depends on what tank they are mounted on
I would say many tier 8 meds are suffering from pen powercreep, so aside from powerful autoloaders every T8 medium gun should have at least 185-195 mm of penetration. 175-180 won’t cut it anymore.

[dreamy oar]

It’s kind of what I’ve been think too. Like the pen values are from a different and WG seems to buff armor to tanks more and more it seems. Let’s take the t7 122mm gun for example. 175mm seems extremely low especially it’s premium ammo. 175 is a good value for t5 and t6 but at t7 it seems underwhelming when it’s going up against t8 heavies. Hell even for t7 I think its almost to the point of it not being enough.

[drowsy plaza]

Aiming, or not engaging a monstrous beast frontally…

[safe rapids]

175 is fine for a tier 7 heavy. It could use a touch more APCR pen.
175 is very good for T6 and incredibly good for tier 5, it’s pretty much overkill.

[upbeat sphinx]

spall liner should be a consumable like reactive armour.

[gleaming patrol]

Uhm actually no
Just no

[granite pebble]

IS-7 literally has the highest base pen out of all the heavy tanks, what are you on about

Okay correction, tech tree heavy tanks, it's tied with AMX M4 and beat by the VK 90P

Which why in god's name does the VK have that kind of pen

[nimble zodiac]

VK 90.01 P:

[proven drum]

I do think it would make it more balanced, or better yet, keep it as. Provision and give it a 30 second cooldown, ie. you get hit once by he and take the reduced dmg and then for 30 secs you take full he dmg while it recharges

[granite pebble]

Day 1 of asking to nerf the living hell out of tracks. For the love of god im tired of shooting the sides of tanks with 0 armor and RNG decides "hey, screw you, you're not allowed to have fun".

There's no reason why track wheels should act like black holes for shells, might as well make there be a % chance your penned shells don't even do damage to the target, because that's borderline what's happening with this bs

[nimble zodiac]

Oh that's funny

Tracks are the sole reason many tanks can't sidescrape

[austere moon]

wdym
most fo the time i play in mts nad lts and if i shoot tracks it usually pens
or at least breks the tracks for otehrs to shoot only time i get trasck crit is like trash rng and only sometimes

[granite pebble]

Nah, i've had many time where I go to fight with a medium or light tank at close range and the tracks just eat the shot while their sides are flat on to me, the track themselves might not act like blackholes but the track wheels sure do

[main tulip]

aim higher

[vivid hinge]

Give the SU-152 tungsten it would be a megachad move

[austere moon]

oh, i somehow make 144, 150 and panther (and 2) pen work out
or i use gold lol
also the farther u shoot the more pen u lose
i also cannot stress how many time the gun itselfeats up dmg for borsig or waffletrager
"the gun is broken" and no dmg :(

[nimble zodiac]

You’re shooting too low and missing the hull completely

@austere moon using HE? That’s just the shell hitting the end of the gun, too far away from the armor to deal splash damage

[unique scaffold]

I always laugh whenever mine Grille 15 barrel swat another HE shell
Speaking of which, what do you guy think about buff Grille 15 alpha to 700/630/1050 and completely nuked it DPM and remove spall liner?

[main tulip]

wasn't that literally my idea

[unique scaffold]

Yeah. I didn't see much discussion on that so i want to bring it back again

[nimble zodiac]

This is the channel where we discuss the stats of tanks and what needs to be changed about them to support balance in its tier. Make sure to read pins 😄

[silk geode]

WG if Buff E5 armor be like:

[scarlet fjord]

Is it me or is M4 mle 54 a super powered heavium xd
It's so flexible and with tungsten it packs a punch

[main tulip]

Yeah it's pretty strong, the only real downside is how huge it is

[scarlet fjord]

yes thats what makes it a little difficult to exploit at 100%
in my opinion its a little harder to exploit than the majority of heavies
since its so flexible you can do many things in 1 game
out perform heavies in many aspects like punching really hard with tungsten having superior armor profile when in hull down
or be an MBT style tank
or contest meds u have amazing reverse and a very fast turning turret you have gun depression and accelerate forward rather quickly despite your armor and size
but you CAN get out played in it very easily thats why its so hard to play
if 1 med flanks you
you can neither hide sometimes nor contest your front and u get pushed on 2 sides
an IS-7 for example wont give much of a damn in some of those situations

[leaden flare]

The frontal Armor also isn't that thick as soon as people load prammo it's usually fairly grey
The angled parts also make it impossible to angle the front plate in most situations

[scarlet fjord]

out in the open its lower plate is pennable easily
but its a hull down type of tank
it can bounce outside of hull down situations due to the -20 reverse though whilest you abuse terrain to make your opponent miss but thats not part of its strong suits

[nimble zodiac]

The AMX M4 mle. 54 also has the luxury of hulldown design where the upper plate and shoulders are angled effectively if gun depression is used. This means it can expose itself some more when hulldown as long as it’s not to certain TDs

I personally think it’s simply strong, though tungsten was a bit unnecessary

Hey, let’s not balance this game based on a different one 😅

[unique scaffold]

Lol it’s very much weaker since the accuracy is really bad and the mobility is nerfed. Tungsten should be exchanged for 500 alpha. The tank has the same weaknesses if not more than on pc it should have the same strength

[scarlet fjord]

accuracy is bad?
you have 480 alpha and you have tungsten AND gold AP
accuracy is bad?

[normal raptor]

It is literally one of the best if not the best tier 10 heavy in pc (tech tree) and you want it to be that strong as a premium in blitz? Nah m8 it is very strong as it is now

[lean gate]

Day 87 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[unique scaffold]

Where do you get that from lol it has been the very very worst tier X in the game for 8 years

[normal raptor]

it was buffed sometime ago

[main tulip]

Yeah my stats in it were really bad after my first 20 battles or so because it just didn't play like anything else and the size + gun dep combo didn't allow me to use some of my usual spots, but I'm starting to bring it back

[main tulip]

AMX M4 54 in PC has garbage pen with the 130mm, underwhelming dpm with the 120mm, and less speed than in blitz

[slender latch]

I remember its first release ytubers and players were complaining that it was broken lol

[scarlet fjord]

i had the exact same experience first few battles i rolled up thinking i have this broken armor with IS-7 mobility and
insane gun and all that and i kept getting clapped
until i realized its playstyle had nothing to do with having op armor or anything like that
its all about its flexibility and your alertness as a player allowing you to snap people for 500+ and hold people back etc

[unique scaffold]

E5 IS STILL UNDERPERFORMING. It is decent, but, hear me out, the dpm is just weird. The armor is in no way enough to make up for it. Please add 200 base dpm to the tank which shouldn’t be a high dpm heavy but just a decent dpm decent armor heavium

[unique scaffold]

M48 is worse than before. The turret cheeks are easier to hit. Like that’s literally underserved, it should have gotten an armour increase at some places to counter the effects of the pbr model as e50m did but well. (There we’re ridges before, but they are easier now).

The E5’s model is a little better to me, but still bad, and not much changed. The turret is maybe a little harder to hit on the lower edges, but the lower plate is easier to hit than ever before.

Maus didn’t change at all and still needs a buff smh. It is nice however.

Minotauro is a beautiful piece of balancing, although I fear it will be a little too situational. I still vow to wait and see if the gun is good enough, and maybe buff the accuracy at some point, or the third shell’s reload.
The cupola is weird in the way that it isn’t that thick but it only is very small now (thanks wg for listening) and very hard to hit for a heavy. However accurate mediums will still snipe the minotauro to death without much trouble

[neat crescent]

Sheesh i have enough FXP to get the new line , finally

[ornate warren]

E5 got better on turret cheeks and cupola but heres the problem, it can be penetrated from the gun mantlet. I dont want to get penetrated from gun mantlet like M103. For me its kinda annoying to experience.

@twin egret thanks But that doesnt effect, gun mantlet weakens from sides when you wiggle, which means a higher chance for the enemy to penetrate

I also tested that too

[twin egret]

Just move left and right

[nimble zodiac]

Don’t move predictably, so the enemy can’t time a shot into one of the sides. It’s better than sitting there and letting them aim, anyways

[midnight nexus]

Is it normal for a tank to appear and disappear a few meters from me?

[unique burrow]

When it‘s behind something yes, when it is‘s 10m fare way and there is nothing no

[nimble zodiac]

Let me know the situation in DMs, I could probably explain it. Gamemode? Tank? Actual distance?

[unique scaffold]

Very slightly. Was hard there already. Only re l improvement is cupola. But the entire lower plate is easier to pen sadly.

Wiggling has to be slight and fast but not big movements, also it won’t save you for a long time. We must stop considering e5 has a decently armored heavy and start to see it is a little bit more of a 215b, chieftain type tank, with obvious weaknesses and an armor that you can never truly angle to perfection. It buys you time more than anything else.

But in exchange for that once again we should all insist that Wargaming gives it 200 additional base dpm. It is of paramount importance as for now it just doesn’t make sense. It will bring it to 2759 with rammer, which is still kind of low for a 400 alpha gun on such a tank. It is the very least we could do and I don’t see how anyone desiring a balanced game could not want that.
Keep in mind that this is lower than the Wz 111 5A’s dpm, which has literally 460 alpha too. (And better mobility, and, since 9.3, will probably have armor and hulldown capabilities of almost the same level).

The real perks of the E5 are the prammo pen and the accuracy when still which almost equals 215b (although remember it gets much worse on the move), but the dpm shouldn’t be such a massive drawback and just a good heavy dpm.

[verbal igloo]

how is the minotauro even allowed literally a type 71 as a td with more gun depression. but but is7 op 🤓🤡

[nimble zodiac]

Man forgot that Type 71 had mobility and HP, as well as a full turret

But here lemme take my lifetime to load the first shell, brb

[quick lichen]

I don’t understand why people freak out about a tank that hasn’t even been released yet with its final stats

[unique scaffold]

Because as we know WG likes to release tanks as ultra meta lol. But yeah it could change for the better or worse, we don’t actually know. Personally I don’t care really I’ll wait and see

[willow hawk]

Do you have the graphical representation of the M48 with PBR applied? It does look like the M48 got an armor nerf in addition to the gun dep nerf on the sides and rear.

[main tulip]

that's kinda weird because on PC the M48 got a huge armor buff when it was made HD, although that also included the cupola removal and transition from A1 to A5

[willow hawk]

Ye. Only the A5 had the 105mm, A1 had 90mm, wonder why they didn’t redesignate from the start.
And the Blitz PBR makes the Patton look like it got a fat cupola…ewwww

[ornate warren]

The wiggle I used in test was both, too much and slightly. Both are still pen from the gun mantlet, not even turret cheeks. Also yes, E5 definitely needs a dpm buff, it will be enough for E5 to get dpm. I probably wont mind the gun mantlet problem when it gets a decent dpm buff

[scarlet fjord]

Minotauro isn't broken or anything but WG u keep getting backlash by balancing tanks in a toxic way like this from type 71 and version 4 and u still implement them I don't get what ur trying to achieve but this is just a toxic way of balancing tanks
Majority of the players struggle to pen tanks with weak spots how you think they gonna deal with tanks with no weak spots?
Flanking is the last thing on their mind based on what I've seen

[real bison]

simple really, OP test tanks tell most of us that WG has NO idea what balanced is

I can only see this game slowly going the same direction as it’s PC cousin. Less brainpower needed to play: what does a 60%er’s skill matter when some sub average player goes hulldown in his hulldown tank with no weakspots/ weakspots that are incredibly difficult to hit/ prammo-weakspots? And said hulldown tank is designed by WG exactly for said sub-average player.

we need more tanks like the Chieftain and E6.

[unique scaffold]

They don't freak out.only noobs can play that thing and claim it's op. It'll be strong at best. The gun is really terrific. The DPM too. It is (thank goodness) hard to pen when in hull down but that's the only position where it excels. Frankly except making it a 9 in depression instead of a 10 no nerf is even needed.

@willow hawk yes and that's a scandal. M48 literally would have needed an armor buff but it got nerfed nicely. The autopen parts and much neater, slightly wider and less angled so less troll bounces. The cupola also got MUCH easier to pen which is the weirdest thing to see actually. Didn't need a decently sized pennable cupola at all yet they did it.

@ornate warren you're entirely right but what can we do ? They should buff the mantlet definitely it should be unpennable. But they won't. So please Wg, just give that DPM buff and after, promise, you can let the tank as is.

@scarlet fjord i think you're right but it's not that dramatic. Now they REALLY have to release one or two lines of lightly armored tanks. The carro will be paper, i really hope the Strv k won't be too trollish, and that they'll bring maybe German lights or some paper line as the next line.

[slender latch]

If a tank is impenetrable with no weakspots hulldown then C1B and Kran are also OP?

[unique scaffold]

Exactly. They are crying for minotauro but i repeat that concept is twice stronger and no one complains about it. It also has a decently good gun and no real cupola, and is very fast.

Soon they'll ask for a slight accuracy buff on the mino.

And 12,5 seconds reload for 490 alpha with that kind of accuracy and on such a slow tank is really really bad. It means that even by using it as a single shot gun the DPM is almost equal to that of a Maus using Calibrated shells (11.8 seconds for 460 damage ).

Well @unique scaffold apcr or decent pen AP goes through the lower plate tho. But yes without that lower plate the tank would be underpowered and it is what allows it to perform.

It's not toxic tho really. Idk if you're in testing but i tried many tanks against it and frankly they balanced the armor perfectly. Mines is the only example where you will have to count on the very slow turret rotation and shoot at it fromt the sides fo the turret, which are pennable even angled. And the DPM , traverse values, and accuracy of the thing won't allow it to deal with meds.

I fear it to be a little too much like 268/4, boring to play, kind of underwhelming Except in rare situations, and easy to beat with certain tanks especially.

I believe thty did a beautiful job with the PBR's esthetically but m48 didn't deserve that really.

Also Maus still needs a higher alpha and t110e5 +200 base DPM and we're fine.

[unique scaffold]

Because we don't like tank that TOO excel at hulldown? Like please tell me with a straight face that this armour gun combination is not toxic. It is terrible to play again because WG absolutely horrendous map design and generally indecisiveness teammate. Like, am I supposed to HE-ing this tank while fighting on Mines? The gun while could be worse, still terrible with it current gun handling and non-exist DPM

@slender latch Both concept and Kran don't have full red armour on flat ground

@unique scaffold Explain to me, Why I need to load gold armour to have a chance to deal consistent damage? Even Type 71 (and God forbid me defend it) have a pennable lower plate. We DO NOT need another V4, regardless whether or not it "balance"

[scarlet fjord]

I didn't call them op but I did say toxic way of balancing
And I also meant the ones that are unpennable frontally with standard ammo out in the open which kran and c1b aren't like that
Heck some tanks can't pen them anywhere even with gold ammo

[regal iris]

Hello, what chat would I need to go to if I have a question about revamping a certain tank to make it a bit more formidable foe on the battlefield @scarlet fjord

[safe oriole]

y'all wich is better single shoot tank or double shoot tank?

[solid scaffold]

Did you mean clippers (tanks with magazine) or the helsing

[verbal igloo]

the difference between the c1b is that its a collector tier 10 and the minotauro will be a TECH TREE TANK you can just imagine that it will be spammed like the 71

[safe oriole]

maybe? like grizzly tanks and crusier 4

[willow hawk]

The part that really annoys me the most is that WG actually advertised it, as if they were proud of it. “Hey look, we nerfed the M48 to hell. Less gun depression, less armor, enjoy the tank!” With a big fat, middle finger in our faces.

[slender latch]

Patton still has gun dep just not fully on its sides, the PBR looks great tho

[willow hawk]

jUsT nOt FullY oN iTs SiDeS and rear.
PbR lOoKs GrEaT tHo
I don’t give a d*m about appearance if the tank is made more vulnerable. It looks nice…as a target with “shoot me” written on its forehead 🙄

[slender latch]

I think WG just fixed the model via PBR since the original model's gun might have clipped through the hull while aiming down on its side but ngl it does look great on PBR

[scarlet fjord]

When 60tp and rat 71 nerf tho

@willow hawk damn dude chill

[willow hawk]

Don’t care, Captain Obvious. Functionality> Appearance/Aesthetics

[safe rapids]

Why they needed to sacrifice functionality for aesthetics is my question

[lean gate]

Day 88 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[slender latch]

I mean the gun dep is still 9° on the front don't know why u bawlin' over a model fix lol

[safe oriole]

is grizzly good tho?

[leaden flare]

Because it's a nerf towards a tank that didn't need a nerf at all maybe ?
Gd over the side is important too

[safe oriole]

is grizzly tank good?#2

[unique scaffold]

It's average. Alpha is good for tier iv, and the armour + gun dep is good for beginners who get given the tank. Made to just help new players grind some credits, it's not an outstanding tank

[safe oriole]

one more,i'm about to upgrade my cruiser 4,what tank should i pick?

[inner sapphire]

Bro Wargaming doesn’t know their own game, first they add the Type and give it insane armor and traverse speed and now this thing called the Minotauro. Can’t we just give the entire game to a different company who actually knows how to balance certain vehicles. I have been playing this game for 6 years now and I’ve seen this game get absolutely demolished by Wargaming by them constantly making the same mistakes over and over and over again.
The type for example: it’s so strong that it completely destroyed the tournament meta, it’s all type spam now… if the tank isn’t broken why do you think every single professional Wotb team spams it in tournaments Wargaming? Is it so hard to use your brain man come on…

Please Wargaming I beg you, sell your game because you don’t know how to run it or hire people who know what balanced means.

[quick lichen]

They heavily nerfed the type once and they’ll continue to do so as it ages

Every new line has to look a little shiny on release so that it sells and builds hype

Yoh, tvp, vickers, kran, Sheridan, 60tp, ho ri

All the same thing

[hollow basin]

When did they nerf the Type 71?

@willow hawk just that? No wonder it's still the same.

What it needs nerfed is the armor, that armor alongside a medium like mobility makes it OP.

So, make the ARMOR WEAKER, forget about the mobility.

[nimble zodiac]

9.3 moment

[willow hawk]

Engine power and terrain traverse. Also before release the side armor was nerfed.

@hollow basin i understand your frustration, but as one who plays with the gun depression perk, mobility is not so good for the 9° of dep.

Also, armor is strong, but I guess u just gotta get used to it. I usually aim for hatch, turret weldings, and front upper. Load prammo and it makes it way easier. Compared to the Maus, the 71 has slightly better armor, because weak spots aren’t as obvious

[unique scaffold]

I never know why Type 71 needs 178 mm on drive wheel, that need to be gone. The lower plate and cupola (esp the cupola) need to reduce it angle, and nerf cupola down to 75mm and rear down to 55mm

[shy coral]

Should the M4A1 rev have HVSS and the ford GAA or is that just an Israeli upgrade?

[neat crescent]

You mean the supposed super M50?

[bright bane]

The e5 on open test has big weakspots now, why does it only get nerded , he lost everything good about the tank

[narrow fractal]

The e75 can be penned easily, it's good to have hull armor but the frontal plate of the turret is kinda poor, could wg buff e75 mantlet to 280mm like in world of tanks? It would be an upgrade for the tank since it already has a cupola and weak lower plate and it's winratio would be equal or better than the other superheavy's and plus, it's underrated

[upbeat sphinx]

Buff TS 5 hitpoints by 100 at least

[prisma jetty]

It’s already reasonably mobile for its armor, has a great gun, and has good enough armor. It definitely doesn’t need a buff lol

[ornate warren]

Which parts do you think are big weakspot? I wanna hear your opinion on the new E5 too

[nimble zodiac]

You do know the gun mantlet is what blocks the shots... right?

It's a minimum 435mm effective

Gotcha then, while you wait, try around wiggling the turret to block shots ^-^

[narrow fractal]

Oh yeah sorry I meant the frontal plate of the turret*@nimble zodiac

[nimble zodiac]

E 75 actually has a rather tough lower plate. I'm sure the tank is balanced, if not strong. The annoying thing about E 75 is the cupola, which is decently large. There are a few things you can do to hide it, though. The stats may seem lacking as a tech tree tank, especially because E100 is a newbie-friendly tank. The stock modules and new players hurt its stats.

[prisma jetty]

It does have 8 degrees of gun depression, giving it a good amount of flexibility despite being so tall

[granite tusk]

Kv2 is so balanced

[stiff edge]

@narrow fractal if you give it even more armor how would you balance it? It's already borderline op vs Tier 8 and it can easely hold its own against tier 10.

[shy coral]

It’s an m-51 as it sports the 105mm M-51

[main tulip]

Object 268, E3, and 268/4 should all have the same alpha. Having 670, 680, and 690 is just super redundant. (And E4 should have the same as the E3)

[unique scaffold]

All I care about is E5. That tank unequivocally and logically just needs exactly 200 additionnel base dpm. That’s all. Not more not less. It is that little strap away from absolutely perfect balance and it irritates me. The new model has weaknesses and pros, the mobility is good but the traverse values aren’t shining, the accuracy is very good but gets much worse on the move, it really just lacks a decent amount of dpm. I really hope they’ll come back to balancing tier X soon.

Also, about a tank that is very far from perfect balance, m48 is a poor boy that didn’t deserve what happened to him

[ornate warren]

I agree, thats literally what E5 needs bro,

And I hope they add some armor to the turret of m48, because its a lot easier to penetrate it from turret now

[unique scaffold]

Yes. Also it got. A huge easy pen cupola which wasn’t there before (wasn’t pennable at all).

[unique scaffold]

Yep
+200 DPM Wg pls

[prisma jetty]

The M48s cupola has always been penetrable

[quick lichen]

@unique scaffold @unique scaffold I’m convinced you’re one person switching accounts to “prove” a narrative no one else supports

[quick lichen]

There’s zero reason why they shouldn’t go back to 640 along with the Foch 155

[unique scaffold]

@unique scaffold is my clan mate and we are 8 year and 7 year long players so yes we will tend to agree about things but you’re just wrong. He genuinely supports the fact that E5 needs 200 dpm and most people support it. I even think if I could add a poll you would be less supported than me. I’m convinced you’re an op tank spammer that refuses the game to move in any way and keeps protesting against any balance change even when necessary. How is E5 “fine right now” as you would say ? Nothing justifies a 9.4 second reload on such a tank. Especially after it gets its new armor profile. It needs it. If you are a member of tank balance discussion you should agree with it. Everyone should as it is the least we could ask for this poor tank.

How is it fair right now ? If I take examples of other tanks will you repeat all the time that those are op ? If I make you realize it’s one of the worst X heavies (if not the worst) with is 4 and Maus will you say that every other heavy is overpowered as an argument ?

You are like a less smart version of that other immobilist that refuses any changes. You just don’t understand balance. If one tank is weak, instead of changing every other tank, you should buff a little that weak tank.

E5 legit needs an additional 200 dpm and it’s your narrative that no one else supports

I admit that sometimes I ask for impossible things but I always state when I do it that it might not happen and that it is unrealistic. I also didn’t do that since long. See I criticise myself for asking a few buffs of tanks that were not in the game long enough for it, etc.
But when it is serious, I think about it, I ask many ppl in game how they feel with it, and then I suggest it here. Such is my suggestion for E5. Such is my suggestion for Maus (470-475 alpha).

It’s a lot of testing and objectivity. I myself only like Japanese tanks because I’m a fan of imperial Japan and you can notice I never asked a buff for them.

[main tulip]

Give back the huge E5 cupola in exchange for like 700 dpm tbh

[quick lichen]

Notice the only other person agreeing has the name of the tank. Not everyone is forced to agree with you😂

Obviously any e5 owner would take a free buff lol. The e5 overall is supposed to be a mid level jack of all trades tank and it fills that roll already just fine. It doesn’t specialize in anything yet has a bit of everything. Given the pbr models it’s already getting an armor buff with the turret (where it needs it the most) so an additional dpm buff doesn’t make any sense

The e5 is a good baseline for how good tanks are. The type and e100 need to be pulled back into line and tier x heavies would be fine as is

The vk 90 could also get toned down a little

Not every tank has to be just as good as all the others but should be viable. Blitz never will have the perfect balance you’re looking for so constant complaints get old after it’s every single week month after month

[prisma jetty]

As an E5 simp, I will gladly take the E5 as it is right now, and with PBR it’s getting better. It has insane amounts of gun handling and decent mobility for a heavy. This leads it to feel almost like a big medium, just with better armor and heavy tank HP

[quick lichen]

Exactly. Proves my point right there

[unique scaffold]

Well I disagree based on heavy tanks dpm. So many heavies and heaviums have absolutely great dpm without totally sacrificing armor at all (95E6, chieftain, fv215b, WZ 5A, and most of all 1B) . Based on its classification the E5 shouldn’t be as good in matters of spam, but slightly better. Plus 200 base dpm wouldn’t make it stick to those tanks nearly but just more viable. They are just insanely better rn

Also many claim the pbr is worse. Just stare at the E5 now from afar and you really have to make that effort to aim at the lower part of lower plate, now it’s effortless. Turret didn’t change much.
And I believe tier X should be constantly every tank as good as other.

[main tulip]

I want to agree but I think it should lean into the med side a tad bit more. Nerf the armor, remove the sandbags/reactive (?), and buff the dpm and reverse speed

Also T95E6, FV215B, and Chieftain sacrifice tons of armor lol @unique scaffold

[quick lichen]

(Should never have created sand bags)

[prisma jetty]

The key to balancing is not buffing balanced tanks, but nerfing OP tanks. T95E6 is OP. Chieftain has better dpm while having worse armor/mobility than the E5 so it’s fine. 215b is gimmicky and the armor isn’t really that strong. 5A and 1B could both use some nerfs here and there, though they aren’t outrageously strong.

Anyone who says that PBR E5 is worse is just looking at the hull. The hull got weaker, sure, but this is a hulldown tank. It’s turret got stronger which makes the tank on the whole better.

[quick lichen]

The t95e6 is more of a medium than the e5 so I’d rather see the e5 be the “heavier” option. Like chieftain vs super conq

[quick lichen]

The e5 hull was always going to get penned anyways. Maybe not Ap but people can always just switch to gold

[bronze fossil]

Give tankestein tungsten shells? Tiger p already has it, it would be fun

[unique scaffold]

Not much more than e5 and I mentioned 5A , 1B, etc. E5 is less and less armored and now it really reaches 5A in matter of efficiency

@quick lichen well yes. And it should be let us agree on this, but the fact that apcr was needed changed a lot the damage intake. Also you could activate sandbags for a whole -40% on damage since everyone automatically switched to apcr and that was already -20%.

I agree sandbags should be removed in exchange for the dpm it doesn’t even fit the playstyle much anymore. However further armor nerfing seems excessive given that the upcoming pbr has defined perfectly the weakspots. Upper plate can be penned from high tanks, high pen, or apcr. Turret sides and mantlet can get penned from apcr. Lower plate and tracks are the autopen zones. Fair.

Also the traverse values render it easy to aim which should be taken into account. For type71 which already has better native armor profile than the upcoming E5 pbr model’s, the traverse is critical and it’s insanely good of course (I’m not claiming we should balance E5 on the model of 71 which obviously isn’t that fair and is very different, it’s just to make the point of how traverse speed on such a heavy changes everything).

Considering E5’s traverse values I believe the current armor profile is heavium-y enough to benefit from a dpm that resembles more the typical >3000 heavium dpm. I suggest something around 2800 when rammer is installed, similar to super conqueror’s.

But yes removing sandbags might be a good way of making the tank’s playstyle more defined as right now it just feels misplaced;cède and weird. I hate this consumable from the start anyways: if you take damage, just get into cover, it won’t be worth staying there and hoping that you tank with that 20% reduction. Honestly a bad consumable, still it’s better to use than don’t and is an asset but shouldn’t be an asset to me.

[quick lichen]

Personally, the super consumables have been a lazy gimmick to create artificial/situational “balance” but they shouldn’t exist

Continuing off my: Chietfain = T95e6, Super conq = E5
I would like to see the hull retain its strength combined with the seemingly pbr turret buff. The lower plate remains weak(ish) and that resembles the SC nicely. Remembering it has better mobility than the SC and Type 71 I think it’s a fair trade off when the type is slower but thicker armor. I’d remove sandbags and buff the hp to 2400-2450

I stand by my points earlier that the type 71 is no longer op but just really strong

I still think the e5 is okay as is, not great but far from awful

[unique scaffold]

I think it should get ten degrees gun dep as an alternative to the dpm everyone wants it to have. That way it can make use of it's solid turret armour easier. Alternatively it could get its 460 alpha back but nerf the reload to leave dpm, to make it a bit different.

[prisma jetty]

E5 never had 460 alpha?

[unique scaffold]

Huh? Sorry maybe I'm thinking of 420. Let me double check

[unique scaffold]

Did it ever have 460 alpha ? Anyways that would be fun but feel definitely weird. To me the tank feels right as it is now and they did a nice job of changing it yet I remain persuaded that it exactly lacks between 150 and 200 more base dpm.

Anyways what I mean is that you can’t have it have as much damage as type 71. It just feels, plays and fights like a tank that should have a better dpm.

Type is indeed not straight up op, it just takes some time to get used to, but it actually deserves having a 9?4 sec reload gun while E5 frankly doesn’t have half the avantages 71 has to compensate for that low dpm. 71’s traverse makes up for the depression difference and the base armor is much better than E5. So yeah indeed if they were headed to make E5 tougher in armor maybe the dpm would be fine as is but currently and seeing how medium-y it’s getting I believe a higher dpm would suit the direction wg is taking

[stuck acorn]

E5 never had more alpha. It was always 400.

I just checked it in video from 7 years ago to make sure. E5 since 1.0 update always had the same alpha damage

[upbeat sphinx]

But then it would be like the t95e6

[rich harbor]

buf the kran ffs
no dpm

[normal hatch]

the amx 50 120 he has not good armor

[ornate warren]

Bro you gotta be kidding me. Didnt you see how many youtubers asked for the dpm buff? Also if you want to put that example on my name, why would I ask for fv215b to get buffed, or kran? its not a good idea to defend yourself with others names imo. And I really want to see how you play the e5 in battles.

@prisma jetty so almost every youtuber is wrong about the fact that E5 needs a dpm buff? Cmon man.

And also I dont mind just the hull armor. The turret is becoming worse on different parts right now. I just tested it and I got penetrated a lot from the gun mantlet instead of the turret cheeks.I m kinda okay with it as long as I wont get penetrated that easy in the normal battles. Also turret cheeks instantly becomes gray and big when you turn your turret a little bit just like the M103. I wont mind this change also be happy with if they do something about the dpm, because I m a bit tired of getting destroyed by mediums and heavies in most of the close situations. Youll get what I mean when you face that situation. its hard to explain all of the thing I say without any pictures and videos

[prisma jetty]

Ah yes, because YouTubers know exactly how to balance a tank

[lusty bluff]

Type 71 turret traverse and gun handling is a laugh tbh

[upbeat sphinx]

Buff TS-5 hitpoints in 9.4
The tier 7 italian tank destroyer at tier 7 has same hp as this tank

[nimble zodiac]

The tier 7 TD is at tier 7?! 😱

[unique scaffold]

Oh right, my mistake. Don't know where I got that from.

[karmic mountain]

@solar sorrel please, nerf gun depression and front armor of every tier VII - X italian tank destroyer its too much (not joking) thank god!

[solar sorrel]

italian tds will be rebalanced, guys
tests are for these purpose 😉

[quick lichen]

Said it for me

[slender latch]

E5 will get armor buff on PBR? How much tho?

[quick lichen]

It appears like the turret cheeks are stronger at the expense of the upper hull plate meeting the lower plate line being weaker

[ornate warren]

Cupola is a lot smaller, hull becomes a bit less armored on the lower plate, cheeks are also better. But the gun mantlet gets weaker, so anything above 350mm might penetrate its gun mantlet.

@quick lichen yeah, I might also change my mind tho. it might create a new playstyle on E5 too.

[quick lichen]

Only time will tell

[ornate warren]

Also sorry if I acted a bit aggressive,
I was having a rough day

[karmic mountain]

Thank god!

[lean gate]

Day 89 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[gleaming patrol]

It wont change anything if you just spam this message i'am sure somewhen you get muted or they just dont care about you cuz why should wg lissen to one person asking

[ornate warren]

Progetto is actually decent imo, I ve played it in my friend’s account for over 100 games and didnt struggle on something on its role. I used it as a support vehicle since it doesnt have good armor but has a good gun

[main tulip]

Yes, Youtubers and streamers usually have horrendous takes regarding balance, in any game

[jaunty hornet]

Need to wait a week or two until they make their review.

[ornate warren]

:)))

[ornate warren]

Agreed

[main tulip]

If we want to take the route that the E5 is a "heavier" option to the E6, then I feel like it would be interesting to give it 450 alpha, kinda like a single shot yoh gun

[ornate warren]

That would be super interesting not gonna lie

[quick lichen]

Hmm. Seems a bit unnecessary. What I have in mind is an E5 that has the armor to bully people a bit more while risking less frontally. Much like the Type, SC and Amx M4. None have crazy dpm but are a bit more annoying when they’re dug in

[turbid ice]

I stand by my points earlier that the type 71 is no longer op but just really strong
I agree with that, once you know the weaknesses of the tank you can pen it easily
It will probably be the same thing with Minotauro

[lusty bluff]

100%

[scenic apex]

I hope you wouldn’t give it the same accuracy as that Yoh gun 💀

[tacit pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/swing-dance-swing-your-hips-dance-cute-dance-side-to-side-gif-25165719 Alexandra the great finally came to save us

[umbral socket]

HEAT (Premium amm) is buyable for credits is the main reason why Maus is dead
And pls Nerf Obj. 252 U armor, its Ridicilous

[nimble zodiac]

1. Let's not make gold shells gold anymore
2. 252's armor is fine, there are other places to shoot than the upper plate

[karmic mountain]

Nerf T57 Heavy's gun and don't DARE to buff it!

[scenic zodiac]

The gun is fine, it’s not Leo accuracy, it’s only for 3 shells and 2.5 sec inter clip is decent.

I see no reason for it to be nerfed

[ornate warren]

Thats was also in my mind but, this will never be the case since Wg is trying to make tanks have different playstyles than others, but would make e5 a great tank again

[jade cargo]

╠╦T110E5╦╣#9089 has been warned.

[ornate warren]

Wait I dont get what am I violating, do I have to make my name without special characters or,? I dont get it

[dire quarry]

T49 is waay too powerful for a light tank, extremely fast, good camo, OP derp gun
I got hit by a T49 from the side of My tiger 2 for 680 dmg, how is that even possible, it's He shells has 75 pen and my tiger 2 has 104 armor from the side

[real bison]

“OP derp gun” 🗿

thing cannot even pen you frontally or when you slightly angle your side

[ornate warren]

it lacks a lot on penetration, it can only penetrate you from the sides, and he might high rolled the dmg with heat ammo

[unique scaffold]

Highest roll for HEAT is 700. 680 is fairly normal. Just angle and it’ll have a ton of trouble penning you at all. Sounds like you got isolated a bit and circled

[visual bane]

Hesh on 183 is way to op. To much pen with to high dmg. U just know u die if hit by it. Should get heat or apcr. Doesn't deserve any hesh. Teamplayers allways with it too. Hit one hesh per battle and no more. 45% wr suckers and camp and at the corner.

[main tulip]

lol is it just the time of day where everyone complains about derp guns

[ornate warren]

😂

[coarse carbon]

Sounds like skill issue. There’s 183 in the corner for sure: let’s make stupid poke

[dire quarry]

My side armor had 30 more than his pen, how could he get such a high roll?

[scenic stone]

I legit don't even remember when is the last time 183 hit me. You can see them in nearly every game but 95% of the time they're camping in a single obvious corner and don't move all game. 183 is fine as it is

@ Maax, T49 HEAT has 162mm pen with cali. He didn't hit you with HE, just high rolled with HEAT

[main tulip]

Because he shot heat, not HE. The heat has 152mm pen base and 167mm with cali

[dire quarry]

I see, thanks for clarification

[icy spoke]

Buff Tankenstein

[unique scaffold]

I mean I'm all for effort to remove 183 from the game

[hollow basin]

I beg you to just tell the Devs to give it a weaker LFP and Cupolas.

Just that!

Don't make it horrible to use and horrible to fight against.

[coarse carbon]

Bruh tier IX and X isn’t even overpowered 💀 @hollow basin horrible to fight against? You only need decently mobile heavy to encounter tier IX and X, not to mention its going to be incredibly easy to take out with ANY medium/light. Can’t wait to bully Mino with Sheri. Nerfing LFP seems good enough, cupola will make them absolutely irrelevant, especially if Mino has cupola already.

[hollow basin]

Stop licking WG's nether regions.

A tank with a turret that can just sit about and not be penned is bad for the game.

The cupola will not make them irrelevant, their cupolas as is, is a complete irrelevant "Weakspot".

In a balanced game, they'd be a proper weakspot an enemy could use as a last resort, but right now, it's useless as a counterplay.

Also, do you think Minotauros and his predecessors will always be alone? This isn't a 1v1 game.

[distant river]

There are a fair few impenetrable tanks when hulldown, and they don't make the game bad, in fact they add another element to gameplay

[unique scaffold]

Well not to be too nitpicky but...😂 no tanks are impenetrable hull down, merely hard. C1B has a cupola, Kran has two, especially visible if not angled correctly. S. Conq also has one.
@lunar niche As I said hard, but not impenetrable. And usually they can be hit with a bit of aiming in an accurate tank. Of course not every shot will go through, otherwise what's the point of the super strong turret that the tanks pay for in other ways.

[lunar niche]

Ah yes, tiny spots that relies on rng to be hit.

A bit of aiming would require them just sitting still and not shooting back. And even then, you are subject to rng.

[coarse carbon]

You’re funny, but ok, I don’t care

[scarlet fjord]

I agree that unpennable tanks are toxic for the game
Not only is it difficult to balance
But even if you do balance it
its toxic to the average players
heck WG struggle balancing simple playstyle tanks sometimes let alone something toxic

[coarse carbon]

There’s simple solution: get good. Learn how to use meds or mobile HT. im not saying you’re bad, im saying what’s wrong with making people learn more about playing? All you need to do against Mino is just circle it or get to its side. But it’s just my opinion

[prisma jetty]

The Mino isn’t as big a problem as the Type. Mino has some mobility issues, type just doesn’t. Saying “get around the mino” is fine (I’m not gonna get into the fact that the mino has a team), but saying just get around the Type is like saying go yolo.

[coarse carbon]

I didn’t say anything about Type 71 mate, but I think type 71 will be the killer for mino, with this mobility. Type is more toxic tank than mino, because of mobility. Toxic for mediums especially, because you can’t circle it and you can wiggle it like maniac and get stupid bounces. Everyone who try to Tell me Mino is more toxic than Type 71 or 122 mm gun on Yoh with 2 shells and I’ll be laughing as heck

[scarlet fjord]

well yes
"get good"
would be a perfect solution to the problem
but tell me how will you make the average joe to "get good"
i guess they can learn eventually after getting trashed continuously?
my point was
based on what i can see
when i lose a game and one of those tanks are in the enemy team with at least 50% wr
my team gets ratted on by it if I'm not contesting it directly
and thats a problem
i am all for WG teaching the average joe a few things because over the years its getting only worse as strong players are leaving while very poor ones are coming in large numbers
and i dont see WG attempting to make up for the more and more skill demanding meta's in terms of educating their players

[coarse carbon]

I mean taking care of Mino is incredibly easy, you don’t have to be even good at the game, it will be perfect advantage to avg Joe to be better at the game, they will have to think “oh well I need to get to the side of this incredibly armoured tank to kill it”. They won’t be better players overall, but they may start thinking more what they’re doing. But it’s just my opinion. There’s nothing OP about mino. It’s just armoured, nothing, absolutely nothing else.

[slender latch]

I don't think Concept 1B's hatch is visble when hull down

[scarlet fjord]

we'll find out
so far they struggle against version 4 and 71's

[coarse carbon]

Ah yes, V4. Tank which is op only against incredibly bad players. And mino is even worse, because it’s slower, has worse reverse speed, and worse traverse. When they released V4 how many times did you see a player in this “incredibly op tank” doing great enough to make it look OP? @unique scaffold concept has cupola on the end of turret, you can’t hit it when it is hull down. When you’re using C1B properly, you’re impenetrable in hulldown. Same as kran. And these are way better than Mino will be. And then comes type 71 and makes all of them weak, with its stupid mobility. My point is: Mino has like the best armour in the game when it’s hulldown, but it has ONLY this, rest of the tank is just bad and very easy to take down

[scarlet fjord]

I'm not saying they're "op" i said people struggle against them
and it affects me because i lose 7/0 and those types of tanks are the main cause which WG is implementing lately a lot

[unique scaffold]

Everything should get the same stats except for premium tanks and premiums should become more expensive

[lean gate]

Day 90 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[lunar niche]

You say that yet they sit in front of a Tiger 2 and complain about not being able to pen its front.

[unique scaffold]

Ok fair point, if fully hull down and using depression you probably can't pen the C1B

[lone sandal]

i agree with this, being able to sit on a ridge line and become impervious to all attacks really does add a lot of depth to the gameplay

[gleaming patrol]

Bruh show me the proof concepts cupola is visibile when he is hulldown and show me where you wanna pen the concept 1b i would like to also see that

Edit: hmmm ok then bye

[unique scaffold]

I already admitted that was wrong.

[prisma jetty]

Ngl, I thought this was well known but I guess it’s not. The concept does have this lil thing that you can pen with high pen AP or prammo rounds

[distant river]

Might as well aim for these four pixels of green rather than ten pixels or red lol
It is not something that is considered hittable in the slightest, let alone pennable

[coarse carbon]

High pen AP is considered 368mm? Interesting 🤔 good luck with hitting this, especially when tank is moving all the time @unique scaffold normalisation? There’s no TD in tier X what can pen 368 with AP, even when you add shell normalisation. Talking about standard rounds. Good luck with hitting this, fr. let alone auto ricochet angle

[unique scaffold]

Normalisation

[distant river]

It's actually an autobounce using full depression so you need HEAT, either way it's irrelevantly tiny

[unique scaffold]

Yeah, look I already said i was wrong twice 😂, the C1B is impenetrable when using depression. Don't know why people are still going on about it though lol.

[prisma jetty]

At 8 degrees of gun depression it’s 368 vs HEAT, 299 vs AP

[upbeat sphinx]

t 14 tier 5 us heavy tank should get buffed, it's unplayble

[nimble zodiac]

Then don't play it 😳

[upbeat sphinx]

it should be not in game, t1 heavy is better overall

[distant river]

Everywhere?

[upbeat sphinx]

190 dpm is nothing considering you have no PEN. almost every tier 5, including meds, have better pen. and the premium pen is worst than the regular ap of the t1 heavy.
The gun handling is identical basically (0.02 is barely perceivable).
Mobility is the only advantage but the armour way worse and does not justify this trade off.
It's in the same category as other useless and unplayble premiums such as the t 44 100.
The trade-offs are not convenient to almost anyone.
@nimble zodiac you are right, I meant overall instead

[nimble zodiac]

You said better everywhere, not just better

Make blanket statements like that and you'll get some nitpicks

[latent snow]

Wow and I thought aiming for the tiny cheeks on the is4 was hard. What money gets you huh?

[upbeat sphinx]

I meant overall.
I dont see any sense to drive it.
at least some bad-perceived tanks like the panther 8.8 are sometime enjoyable because of some of their stats. For instance, the 8.8 has amazing same gun dispersion that makes it interesting.
the t 14 has nothing for me, it should have some better stats somewhere.

[winged barn]

Which is there.
Dpm
You just have to kave the knowledge to use it.

[hollow basin]

Frankly, it should get a pen buff.

[neat crescent]

Aigh Let me shoot hesh and pray it does 1k with 183

[scarlet fjord]

I mean
U don't have to pray if you Frontline it 🤔

[unique scaffold]

This E 50 M really needs a nerf to its turret armour, I can't use a med without CS without it being invincible hull down apart from the tiny cupola. It's ridiculous, cause it's upper plate is obviously super strong, so if you can't pen the turret then you're useless against it, it just has to hide the lower plate. It doesn't even have the weakspots that most stronger turrets have, cause it's ostensibly weak vs prammo. Theres no way it should be this strong, it's a great tank, doesn't need to be a ridiculous hull down tank. It needs the cheeks to go back to pre PBR.
Edit: when I say hull down I don't mean using depression, it always was strong when it did that, and that's fine. But now it can't be penned on flat ground which is just stupid. Its not got any weak spots unlike most stronger hull down tanks, cause it's meant to be very weak vs prammo. So make the Dam thing actually weak vs a meds prammo.

[slender latch]

Is E50M still meta today after 9.2 rebalance?

[unique scaffold]

I don't know about meta. But it needs to be balanced better vs meds which is what it faces the majority of the time

[ornate warren]

E50m platoons cannot be defeated on medium side unless theres heavies. They shouldnt touch its armor but it would be better to reduce it from other characteristics. What do you guys think?

[unique scaffold]

It's other characteristics are balanced. But its a brawler that can hull down a bit. Its cheeks should be easily penetrable by prammo and flat ground. Like they were pre PBR

[main tulip]

buff meds' pen instead of nerfing the armor

[ornate warren]

Half of them already did get a pen buff, by their apcr switched to the ap, and if they buff their dpm they will have literally the same pen as heavies. they shouldnt get buff on gun anymore,

[unique scaffold]

It's decent. Noobs dislike it but it's very fair to me. It has lost the indecent accuracy which was fair and 10 alpha which was almost over the top to me. Looks like it was just fair and the tank is not much more boring to play

@unique scaffold well no. It has actually a much worse turret than 62a's to me.
The sides of the turret are very easily seeable and penetrable with regular AP.

62 a has almost the same effective depression since it's closer to the ground with 7° and yet it has a much stronger rounded turret which wouldn't get hit when you aim just slightly angled from the side.

[slender latch]

I guess that principle also applies to any online game that balancing should cater to average players not new or professionals

[unique scaffold]

Absolutely. Also every tank should be balanced at tier X, premiums shouldn't be stronger because they're sold for gold. But by noobs dislike it i meant generally beginners will complain about the e50m because essentially they rush Soviet meds or grille and then they get rammed for 1300 by a random e50m .

But yeah the tanks hull down strength is compensated by its low armor turret sides
Like honestly I keep penetrating those. A 62a doesn't have that issue at all

[unique scaffold]

Oh yeah T62a has a far better turret, but it's a hull down tank, e 50 M is great without being overly strong hull down. But E 50 M is just stupid vs prammo now unless using CS on meds, I'd like to at least have the option of rammer on my meds even if I usually use CS. The turret sides are a little bit weaker since PBR, but only penetrable if they turn away.

[dire quarry]

Fix Skorpion G's size, it bigger than a VK100.01

[unique burrow]

It isn’t

[lean gate]

Day 91 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[unique scaffold]

T100 armour still too OP

[quick lichen]

We’ve gotta do something special for day 100

[unique scaffold]

I think we clap and ask him to stop? Lol, nice effort but also rather useless in reality

[turbid ice]

He got the motivation at least

[wicked oracle]

I’m curious about day 100

[unique scaffold]

I have a question, what is your opinion on buffing the turret armor on Progetto M35 mod.46 form 80mm to 180mm and the hull armor form 60 to 100. If u think it should use 👍 if not use 👎

[real bison]

why would the prog 46 need a buff

thing is amazing

[quick lichen]

This isn’t how the channel works

[unique scaffold]

Oh so we’re do I ask? Because the prog is so thin that it fells impossible to use

[umbral hazel]

patch Fv4005 this cannon is so dogwater

[real bison]

nowhere as Prog.46 doesn’t need a buff

@umbral hazel you sadly have to rely on retcal now

[unique scaffold]

Oh so we’re do I ask for help on how to use the prog?

[nimble zodiac]

YouTube

You don’t really have to ask anyone :D

[real bison]

simply put, play it like you have no HP

you are made of the driest and crispiest lasagne sheets, you break on contact

and learn when to single fire and when to empty the clip

that’s the basics

I wouldn’t recommend this tank for lower skilled players

and unlike the Prog 65 of tier 10, you are an actual menace

[unique scaffold]

You can watch vids on it to get an idea, or ask in the general blitz discussion for random advice, you can get helpful people. If you like you can ask in vehicles discussion or even #blitz-school-discussion if you want possibly more serious advice

[winged barn]

Find a distracted enemy
Unload until they notice you
Hide
Repeat

100% of prog46 gameplay

[ebon lynx]

Well, i can't say much because i'm bad with it

[dire quarry]

u're right, its bigger, same size of E75

[autumn bay]

Make T28 Prot. go faster, even T28 defender is faster only by 10 km/h

[neat crescent]

U forgot t28 proto has better pen, gun stats and dpm, compared to t28 defender and a similar armor profile 🤔

[prisma jetty]

proto has barely better accuracy, worse otm, worse mobility, and if by "similar armor profile" you mean not enough, then yes they are similar. The increases the T-28D got to its armor and mobility far outweigh the tank to it's dpm, which can be mitigated by playing it much like a TD with a 6.67s reload.

[neat crescent]

It doesn't have a worse dpm, what are you on man? On both AP/APCR it keeps a higher penetration value while not running calibrated and still 25% higher than the autoloader t28 D, mobility wise it's way worse yes but unlike t28/D the t28 proto isn't meant to be played Frontline or mid, the armor profile is similar frontally, in that sense I'm not wrong, while the sides are the only thing that distinguishes the two tanks apart really since the back is just as easy to HE.
Also you were kinda right about accuracy it's just 3% better in dispersion but hey it's something 🤷‍♂️, the Frontline part i mentioned is also why the t28/D has 1450 HP unlike the proto at 1150, similar tanks but different playstyles

[stoic wadi]

Give the E50M a 170 mm derp gun :trollface:

[main tulip]

short barreled version of jageroo gun with garbage pen

[unique burrow]

Do you have the thing on for the size, because when it‘s of, everything seems same high

[leaden flare]

still kinda stupid to have the 28 prot have such a low amount of hp ngl

[unique scaffold]

Yep, when the T28D has better side armour allowing it to actually angle therefore increasing its frontal/overall armour, it's also spaced which is nice vs HEAT/HE. It's also a lot faster, so why does the T28 prot get worse armour and HP so it can't frontline, but also sacrifice all mobility for its small amount of armour? T28D is definitely superior IMO.

[unique scaffold]

T28 proto turret is terrible however

[scenic stone]

Dont let the slightly better upper side armour of T28D fool you. Behind the track it's still 50mm and due to the 3 caliber rule bypass of spaced armor it means if you angle even by 10⁰ all T8s can track and pen you easily from the front.

[unique scaffold]

Ok sure, but not everyone knows about that and aims for those areas. It's still far superior to the T 28 prot, and will help in battle when wiggling.

[main tulip]

Why even bother trying to defend the T28 proto, it's terrible and everyone knows it

[unique scaffold]

You said the T 57 heavy is better at hull down than kran...you said you thought the kran turret had gotten a nerf cause you pen it all the time...you said it's not that great at hull down and that it's mid at best...I'm sorry but that's all completely wrong.

[scarlet fjord]

57 better at hull down than kran?
Trolling

[unique scaffold]

No, I don't think so.

[slender latch]

If you mean the other way around I'd believe you

[unique scaffold]

Yeah lol, turns out he was trolling, just a really good one unfortunately

[unique burrow]

I wonder when Wg brings Kranvagen on t57

[unique scaffold]

Does Titan H-N need a rebalance, it doesn't seem to have a place in T7

[prisma jetty]

T-28D does have worse dpm. And frontally they are similar, but the turret buff that the T-28D has is massive.

[slender latch]

Do people still see 268v4 as OP?

[unique scaffold]

Yes. But i don't and never did.

[ebon lynx]

H-N is fine as is, balanced tank

[upbeat sphinx]

It's boring to play, it should get just a slightly better power to weight ratio

[prisma jetty]

Nah, it’s actually balanced, leave it as is

[upbeat sphinx]

So balanced that nobody plays it, it's the least played Halloween tank ever

[ebon lynx]

I think it's a nice tank

[prisma jetty]

Maybe because all the other ones are OP or broken

[neat crescent]

Both turrets are horrible however you look at it, if anything the 10mm? Difference prevents certain lights/meds and lower tier tanks from penning one or the other

[neat crescent]

Also, both of them can still angle like this vs 120mm's(t34's with the highest pen values for a t8 heavy) and below and still bounce, the big difference is one can be HE'd on the side and the other can't .

I already pointed out t28D is not that better compared to the tech tree one other than the mobility, the big change really is the playstyles at the end of the day

[unique scaffold]

Medjay make the play unbalanced

[still jackal]

I really want to see the T28 Prot get more effective armor in its HD remodel, like just make it better a bit, not quite t28 level but just not easily pennable by all tier 8s pretty much

[lean gate]

Day 92 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[nimble zodiac]

🤔

[unique scaffold]

What’s your thinking about t-100 lt ? It appears predominantly weak to me, the successive nerfs hit so hard. Easy pen, low dpm, meh accuracy, no depression, all of that for the mobility and the tracer shell seems a bit too much.

The second dpm nerf wasn’t necessary imo

[quartz oriole]

Buff the speed of the centurion 1 kvfwkhwflbtelbdqpb3ypjqfpn

[prisma jetty]

I've never heard of the "centurion 1 kvfwkhwflbtelbdqpb3ypjqfpn", is that a new variant?

[high plover]

kranvagn line should be buffed 💀

[prisma jetty]

No.

[neat crescent]

Rebalance the odds of getting ae phase 1 💸

[main tulip]

nerf tiger II lower plate

[nimble zodiac]

Buff upper, nerf lower, make the armor more usable but less abusable to prammo. Copy E75’s playstyle

[nimble zodiac]

It got a meaty buff with PBR, and turned out to be meta, it’s in no need of a buff

[silk geode]

New tank? (Just joke)

[quartz oriole]

🤣 🤣 🤣 is the centurion 1 bruh

[nimble zodiac]

Interesting idea, but do know that this channel is for the discussion of tank stats and what changes should be made to those stats. Reading pinned messages also helps clear up a few more things.

[lyric bay]

Wg would buff T110E4 cupola armor

[real bison]

nah, 1 more degree of gundep imo, makes the cupola slightly harder to hit, more comfortable to play with

[main tulip]

Yeah more gun dep and maybe better reverse speed

[scenic stone]

If you want an armored cupola play the E3? E4 trades armor for flexibility so it would work better with mobility and QoL improvements

[unique scaffold]

I know I've said this already, but as someone who only plays communist tanks (polish, USSR, Czech, and Chinese) i feel like wg keeps missing on a great tank line with a very interesting feature. It hasn't even been implemented on PC yet. The Yugoslavian tech tree line.

Why do I say so ? Because I keep seeing them hyping people for Italian tier X's that were barely even drawn, while there is a whole ass prototype that was made by Tito's Yugoslavia of a tier X potential medium tank with a very interesting armor profile that they absolutely ignore.

Many players come from this region, and as they keep releasing almost fictional vehicles, it is only a matter of time until they will have to consider the line of the Kondor.

There is even a prototype of the tier VII of this line that wasn't scraped, and is seeable, touchable, and very much real, tôt his day in the army museum of Belgrade. It is pretty much the beginning of the Yugoslavian proper tank development, where it totally branches off modified Russian tanks with that very heavily modified t-34 hull with a totally new rounded and welded turret. Yugoslav engineers aimed to combine American and USSR's tank development schools with both welded and angular, arrow-shaed designs, with more trusty American guns.

The tier X has actually been built and tested, before being discarded. You can Google for the pictures: m636-Kondor.

At first when that guy spoke me of this tech tree line idea I thought it would again be a cheap Russian tank knockoff design but when I saw this qi understood the potential: a medium/heavy tank with a welded spear-shaped front and decent mobility with a decently high alpha gun. It could bring an interesting gameplay while still being easy to understand.

I see it as the proper medium version of the is-7 that the t22 medium never managed to be. But it would compensate for an armor obviously much lower and less thick by a trusty American style gun.

[scarlet fjord]

idk the defender seems to have much better mobility which is the protos biggest problem
but it sacrifices all of its DPM for it and gets an auto loader instead
and it has better sides plus spaced armor

[light ivy]

A tank so low profile that has a dumb camo rating and fast and very accurate + on the move (accuracy wasn't nerfed if that what you meant),
T100 was nerfed because of the dumb armor and DPM added with the fact that it's a light tank soo just no, and it's a russian tank so cope with the gun depression.

[gleaming patrol]

8 days left

[unique scaffold]

buff AMX 30 B

[waxen osprey]

YESS a buff to the is8, tanks wargaming

[quick lichen]

Every day this channel just devolves into things people want for tanks they like or don’t like with little to no explanation for it

[prisma jetty]

Might as well throw my lot in, buff type 71. So many people don’t think it’s OP that it’s incredible, so I say buff it 🤷‍♂️

[unique scaffold]

Hmmm, some decent changes that were needed but nothing massive. T 20 needs a top speed buff IMO.
But anyway what I really don’t understand is the T 43. For a minuscule buff to its AP pen (useless really, at least it had other good qualities and the pen could be worked around, and APCR matters more) but it got hit hard on it’s soft stats. There’s going to be absolutely no reason to play it now. Most people thought it was terrible, I would say decent. But it’s going to be one of the worst tier VIIs now.
T 25 AT I don’t get, it was a decent tank but not OP by any means. It just lost its whole point by removing half the frontal armour.
Lastly the M48 Patton also is really frustrating, it should have had 10 degrees IMO, now only 8, over the front too when I heard it was going to be nerfed over the side which was bad enough. At least they gave the upper plate a substantial buff, but it’s still going to be an easy pen for meds on flat ground due to normalisation, depression is more useful IMO. E5 is looking better next to the M48 now possibly, even though they’re quite different really.
Edit: this is only from blitz post, so I’m not too sure how reliable the buffs/nerfs info is. But I’m gonna guess it’ll be close to reality.

[leaden flare]

pls gib me obj 140 f1 speed and remove gun so i can race with it

[quick lichen]

Good reading

[topaz geyser]

Pls give us the old e5. Remove the active armor and put a nice gun nothing more

[scarlet fjord]

pls uninstall wot blitz and download forza horizon 5

[unique scaffold]

Guys, a mod asks to keep the channel constructive, and you all immediately just post only troll comments, useless stuff that adds nothing to the conversation in any way.
@left arch yes, but this is tank balance discussion, go to #maps-discussion to open a conversation about that.

[left arch]

Wg do balance maps not just balance tanks... the maps has different advantage positions and that's unfair, do balance positions same as you done to wot pc.

[left arch]

it's very important thing for players and should be aware to push wg to do something as bushka already talked about this stuff a long time ago.

[unique scaffold]

That’s all good, but let’s try to keep on topic. You can post your opinion on maps in #maps-discussion, but here’s for tanks only.

[lean gate]

Day 93 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[turbid ice]

7 days away of the surprise…

[unique scaffold]

The surprise will be “Day 101 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3" maybe 😳

[glacial quail]

Theres not enough Yugoslavian tanks to form a tech tree,they have to fill it up with more fantasy tanks such as Polish heavies

[half onyx]

yes

[real bison]

racing gamemode when

[leaden flare]

the gd nerf for patton is too much ngl from -4 to +2 over the rear is painful as hell

@lunar niche from 9 to 8

[unique rock]

yeah thats actually wild and pointless

[lunar niche]

What? How much is over the side?

[gleaming patrol]

Ohhh you want more op Halloween tanks?
And for that its even getting better they should be only avaibile to get for real money ohh well that is a perfect Idea!

[upbeat sphinx]

Have you every played it? Tbh is quite boring, is way too slow and the armour is ok but nothing to brag about. It's basically a Skoda t 45 but with worse turret checks without additional armour. The 105mm has nice DPM. But that's all about it. Less than 10 effective power to weight ratio on hard terrain makes is almost as slow as a sueprheavy.

[unique scaffold]

Well what I meant is that there is more material than for almost any other recent line. Not as much as could possibly be but enough

Anyways I'll wait if the game lives long enough they will have to release them someday, at least on PC this time seems to be coming

[red creek]

especially Emil II

[unique scaffold]

I agree with whoever said that IS-4 was « a shadow of its former self », t was quite average to underwhelming, at most perfectly fine and yet it got a HUGE mobility nerf

Like why wg it was the only thing making the tank still relevant, now it’s a super slow super pennable hp bag with an AWFUL gun
Really awaiting a lot from Russian pbr’s to come.

263 is trash and I’ll stand by this, even the mighty fatness that keeps playing very bad tanks and claiming they are « fine » (recently obj 260) called it trash but that’s just not possible. It’s literally unplayable and the worst tier X by far. Just like the is it was perfectly fine and fun with the mobility and they had to remove that for some obscure reason.

Then the 2684 is also boring and bad, not uncompetitive and bad like the two from above just not performing as should, the side armor of the turret part could be improved or either the dpm/mobility could.

The 140 needs one more degree of depression, like it’s a light but it is big and doesn’t have any depression, it was just so much better with the armor imo… anyways it would be great if they ii

[high plover]

the armor on the turret is great but the dpm 😭

[granite pebble]

Can the 260 for the love of god take up a medium slot instead of a heavy slot or something, or some kind of anything buff, literally anything, make it faster, better gun handling, I feel like im playing a fat light tank with none of the benefits of a light tank, I don't know any medium tank that has such an insanely bad armor layout other than the TVP, which has no armor to speak of.

Every time I play 260 I feel like im trolling the team regardless of how good I do because either other heavy tanks see where im going and decide to follow or the heavy side ends up losing major armor while im off fighting on the medium side.

[scarlet fjord]

IS-4 is ok definitely not weak it's Just the game is much more fast paced nowadays its sluggish and meh firepower yet inferior armor to IS-7
It's just average maybe
Weird how it was overcooked for years and was meta for so long
But then came the new overcooked tanks like 60tps with even better armor and that firepower it has and the reverse
M4 54 same deal only m4 is as fast as heaviums also insane reverse and firepower
U get the idea
I'm not even gonna start on the rat 71

[unique scaffold]

It is crazy underpowered. I absolutely agree the armor is awful and actually much worse than e50m for example or even obj 907.
It juste needs a very advantageous pbr to make the hull trollish and bouncing and the same dpm as t95e6

[granite pebble]

260 sacrifices any resemblance of armor for.... having a horrible base round, which means it effectively has worse pen than other heavy tanks for it's base round. Not a single inch of it's armor is trollish and the parts of the turret than are, are just a shot trap. Like, you have to have the stars align for you to bounce a shot in the 260 because the armor is just SO bad, if it werent for the mobility being almost on par with mediums, the thing would without a doubt be the worst tank in the game, tier for tier.

[next nova]

I have grinded trash tanks 😔

[unique scaffold]

Yes.
You said it all. But no, fatness and some guys here will come and tell you that it’s kind of fine and fun and you should not play it if you search competitive tanks;
But they don’t understand that this is what we want in tank balancing. Balancing tanks. This tank is not balanced. Just compare it to T95E6 which is arguably a fair tank yet is better than the obj 260 in every possible way and by an extremely big margin.
It is a slow, enormous light tank with a terrible gun.
The only reason unicums can make it look like it is worth it is by playing, like fatness, in random battles, where anything moving decently fast and having an alpha of 400 in their unicum hands can perform decently enough against the brain dead noobs you would often find.

Doesn’t make the tank fair for so,
So to answer to the last video of fatshark, yes, it is really that bad; so to speak, absolute trash.
Wg buff 260.

It’s definitely surviving because of mobility but many tanks are better then, both in mediums and heavy tank pools. However the 263 is so deep down there that yes 260 can’t take the crown of the worst tank tier/tier.

[glass torrent]

Hi,i've just returned to the game after 2 years(from 2020).is smasher got nerfed?

[real bison]

no but you can simply play a tier 8 heavy and show them suffering

[glass torrent]

No,i sold smasher 2 years ago and i just check if it's still worthy to bring back to my garage:V

[stuck valve]

If tvp gonna have an interclip of 1.5, at least lower it’s top speed and turret traverse

[tardy aurora]

Amx 50 120 needs buff

[stuck valve]

That doesn’t need a buff, it’s just underrated

[tardy aurora]

True tvp needs quite of a nerf
Specially the aim time and dispersion .
Its just too strong.

[main tulip]

tbh I would nerf the mobility and the armor
the game is just less fun if everything gets a gun nerf

It has 32 and 28 power/weight on hard and medium, respectively, with a top speed of 60, which is pretty ridiculous considering its turret and upperplate aren't completely autopen like the leo. Not to mention the spaced side armor that prevents it from getting punished by HE and HESH

[slender latch]

TVP doesn't have spaced armor, only the Skoda T50 if that's what you're talking about

[unique scaffold]

Leo 1 doesn’t have an autopen turret or upper plate, you can even bounce a bit on the upper plate if you try hard enough lol. And turret gets a few bounces but nothing reliable of course. The turret on TVP is fine, it’s got no armour apart from the gun mantlet, so sure combined with the size it makes it a bit troll. I agree the upper plate should be nerfed, when it uses a bit of depression you’ll often need prammo to go through it, which is a bit ridiculous.
As mentioned the Tvp doesn’t have any spaced armour, I HE it consistently in a T62a Leo 1 etc., very easy. Skoda T 50 has spaced armour on the hull above the tracks, so to HE it you have to fire through the tracks, which is a bit risky.
I think it’s pretty close to being fine right now, and shouldn’t have the mobility nerfed, that’s what the tank relies on. I’d be happy if they just nerfed the upper plate a bit to make it far less troll.

[main tulip]

Oh welp I got things mixed up
I still think they should nerf the upper plate and the mobility instead of touching the gun (much), like -50 horsepower and -5 top speed or something

[leaden flare]

Man the quality of the suggestions I read here are wild

People wanting 268 4 to get more dpm or Armor I've rarely read smth as stupid
Or is 4 is a shadow of its former self after its most hindering weakspot was removed/improved
140 is also better than ever before it just requires a bit of skill which most people seem to not be able to provide

[lone sandal]

pretty sure they're all from the same person

[torn cove]

Buff Skorpion, when???

[main tulip]

140 is insanely good right now, you seem to imply that it's just a worse light when in fact it's outright better than the t-100
It's also super easy to play tbh, idk about the whole "skill" thing

[unique scaffold]

It's everything but insanely good. Type 71 is insanely good. 140 is average.
T-100 Lt is very bad in most situations adn gamemodes : No more armor, no more DPM, most of what it has at release is just entirely gone. 240 pen 310 damage every 6 seconds is pitiful and the accuracy also isn't great at all. Sometimes when I read the comments here I feel like ppl compare every tank to the Maus like yeah compared to the Maus it's "insanely" fast and has good DPM and accuracy but pls compare it to Vikers light, bc, obj 907, etc.

Obj 140 is decent but both other obj meds have a mobility that is not slower enough to justify for the gap in armor. I would do MUCH better at the time where it was armored. If it's a light tank then give it one degree of gun depression, If it's a medium give it back like half of what was taken on the turret, armor was just nerfed too hard.

It's good and seems good to you because of the gun's accuracy mostly but that's not really enough to me when compared to other unarmored tanks. My point is that it doesn't get enough bounces off that crappy turret now to justify for a gun that much worse than, say, leo1.

It's amazing to you because you still see it as an armored medium but it just isn't anymore.

But i agree t-100 Lt is terribly bad and can't stand the ppl bringing up it's decent Spotting qualities to claim it's even playable, in random battles you need raw power it's not like every battle was a championship with the need of one perfect spotter. Btw many others are better for that role especially as they can perform too. Vickers has just been buffed on the gun and it's obvs the reliable light.

[main tulip]

No I don't see it as an armored medium lol, I play it like a light and it's far better than the tanks which are actually classified as lights, and also much smaller and better armored than the leopard 1
And no I'm not playing the vickers over the 140 with the massively worse gun handling on the move and worse dpm

[lethal turret]

Nerf? Heat cant pen

[ebon lynx]

It doesn't have armor and you want to nerf the armor?
Yeah but the turret is there to be penned

[main tulip]

It does have armor. As carius mentioned the upper plate is rather troll

[brave epoch]

Go around

[unique scaffold]

So I can pretend to ask WG making Emil line more historical accurate? Like nerf turret down to 175mm but buff engine power, give more gun depression and give kran 150mm gun?

[quick lichen]

Ah yes. Historical accuracy in a game with Annihilators and helsings😂

[unique scaffold]

I said pretend (I had never put this suggestion in this channel), and it would be more fun at least
(For legal reason, I like my Kranvagn, please reserve 50B-esque with autoreloader for another line WG)

[quick lichen]

If you want a simulator, other games exist

[coarse carbon]

Yeah and give kran 65 kph speed as it was in WoT PC and let’s see how the balance looks like 👌🏻

[unique scaffold]

I mean if WG just man up and nerf Kran turret down to 175 then that would solve quite a few problem
@quick lichen Again, I was just joking, it was not even edited

[ebon lynx]

Ah yes, nerf the kran turret to same value as emil 2 and be penned by most t10s
@unique scaffold but wg won't change it, and most of playerbase won't like the changes, want historical accurate tank? Go play another game

[worthy ruin]

i wish amx cdc had a slightly better accuracy

[unique scaffold]

So IF, and if WG base historical data to change Kran, you do know it will has 14 degree gun depression on the front and 15 on the side, effectively give the same or more armour hulldown right?
Man even in the original comment I said pretend, do I have to bold it next time so the point got accross

[turbid ice]

You forgot the Dracula too lol
Technically it is historically accurate because Dracula existed so 🧠

[nimble zodiac]

There’s the cupola, and you don’t even need HEAT for it

[quick lichen]

There’s quite the long list honestly lol

[turbid ice]

True lmao

[quartz oriole]

whih is the best tank of each type?

[fossil marten]

No wonder new players to the game want to rush the tiers, and get up to the ‘good tanks’. I’ve an account I relocated from the RU server to EU. It’s not got many tanks so I thought I’d grind a few lines on it. A few days ago started on the German light line. I’m on the tier 5 Leopard. Not played it on my main account in a long time. I remember when it was the absolute crème de la crème but Ive been shocked at the cost of trying to help it penetrate tier 6 tanks, particularly heavys. Because the only way to penetrate most tier 6 heavys is to spam premium shells. Otherwise this is what you get trying to use standard ammo. If I’d been alone against the Kuro I’d have had to spam nothing but premium, and probably bankrupted my account! I’m not saying the Kuro needs a nerf or the Leopard need a buff in particular, but the cost of a light tank fighting a heavy at tier 5 is pretty steep!
PS account is running premium time.

[turbid ice]

Lol

[neat crescent]

I mean, light tanks have the worst penetration values in game, usually, heavies are meant to be armored, and this difference in armor becomes very apparent in higher tiers, and higher tier tanks are indeed supposed to be stronger against lower tier ones, last but not least, leopard particularly doesn't have a good amount of penetration. 🤔

[nimble zodiac]

He called it a tier 5 heavy lol

[void siren]

That's a pain inducing waste of prammo - might as well just face your death instead of spending that many credits

[distant river]

Also not having credits means you won't go up the tiers faster at all, and credits are not hard to grind especially with all the free prems, game modes etc

[fossil marten]

I know WG have made standard ammo free. But should the cost of premium ammo be so expensive given (in the case of light tanks) especially the Leopard it’s almost the only ammo that can be used, particularly against tier 6? I’m just making an observation that it seems particularly negative to have a light tank that can’t even pen the rear or side of a higher tier tank with standard ammo, to then have to pay hideous amounts of in game currency to be competitive 🤷🏻‍♂️ seems a bit counter productive if WG are trying to encourage newer players to stick with the game and enjoy the experience.

[winged barn]

German lights are not tanks for noobs

Its honestly a brilliant way to scare them away from the line.

[fossil marten]

Me? I didn’t call the Leopard a tier 5 heavy.

[coarse carbon]

You know what’s the best about German light tanks? Slapping 1000 HE roll in them

[unique scaffold]

Yeah, as mentioned it's not a line for beginners. But I agree the pen needs a buff, it's frustrating even as an experienced player just trying to have some fun, spending insane amounts of credits each battle, and also prammo spam is silly you just lose a ton of DPM. The cost per shell is way too high, since for a clip it's 16 shells. The shell cost should be the shot cost maybe. That's partly the reason it's so annoyingly expensive.

[nimble zodiac]

Well you sort of called Kuro a tier 5. It’s just that it’s a tier 5 light fighting a heavy in tier 6, so some credit burning is to be expected.

Besides, Leopard’s role isn’t to fight upper-tier heavies, it’s meant to clipdump poorly-armored targets, and if you want to break that role, you’re gonna have to spend some credits

12 shells per mag @unique scaffold

[orchid grove]

Yeah, but if you get the rear of a tank, you should be able to pen it, higher tier heavy or not.

The VK 16.02 literally has similar pen to the tier 3 Panzer IV A, which has a literal derp gun mind you

[unique scaffold]

Ah yep sorry only 12. But still.
Leopard pen is stupidly bad, it should be able to pen the sides and rear of heavies, that way it rewards skill with better credit earnings and dpm. But right now you just have to spam prammo to pen at all often. And MTS frontal armour and even Lts is stupid vs it, and they have enough mobility to not be flanked. Bad pen is ok but this is going too far, even with skill it's still just not good enough. Alternatively reduce the cost of prammo massively, however that's kind of just an effective nerf to DPM still as opposed to just buffing AP pen back to something semi reasonable but that still needs working around.

[nimble zodiac]

Isn’t it funny, then, that it’s one of the most played tier 5s? It has a fun tradeoff. Players seem to like the tank, regardless.

Very advantageous against lightly armored tanks, very disadvantageous against heavily armored tanks, which can be reduced by prammo. It shouldn’t even have to be dealing with higher tier heavies. For T1 and BDR, that’s just them being too armored, but otherwise, Leopard is a gem of balance.

I’d accept a reduction in APCR pricing, though, if you really wanna play tier 5 like that 🙄

Sorry if data is wrong, my phone can’t select every tank in the type to compare in tier 5, so I compared with popular ones

“Impossible”
Okay.

[unique scaffold]

Yeah it's super cool so it gets played a lot, especially new players. But that means it should be made a little easier for new players if anything. And the pen is not balanced, it's flat out bad. Sure it's great vs a few select targets that are paper. But for instance last time I played it (quite a while) I couldn't pen a t 34 shielded frontally, in any way. This was with me being above it so the angling hardly even counted for anything too. Meds are mobile enough that you can't just flank, and their frontal armour is often good enough that you'll need prammo. Even the prammo has shocking pen too.
Flanking heavies would be fine...if it worked. But rears and sides are impossible a lot of the time.

[nimble zodiac]

I find it useless to call a single stat like penetration “balanced” or “bad”. The whole point of balance is to consider how each stat works with the rest.

I don’t want an AP buff, but I do want the APCR cost to be reduced, so players won’t feel terrible when they want to nullify some armored targets

[unique scaffold]

Yeah I agree, but Im saying in the context of the tank the pen is imbalanced IMO. It should have bad pen, but not that bad. As I say I doesn't reward skill/flanking tactics because it's so bad. But yeah I'd be happy with shell cost reduction, although it means dpm for the tank is still quite bad.

[lean gate]

Day 94 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[neat crescent]

I'm guessing you never had the AMX 13 75 before it's buffs and other similar tanks, so it's hard to understand the concept behind this kind of balance towards tanks that carry guns that both IG and realistically had minimal pen in accordance with their small caliber 🗿, like ik the game isn't even trying to be realistic but the few realistic things like not giving what's basically a machine gun, regular AT cannon pen should stay, at least i think so 🤔

[unique scaffold]

Sorry but I disagree completely. This is an arcade style game not a realistic one, health bars is enough to tell you that. Of course personally I'd prefer if there were less silly "WG nation" tanks, but whatever. But when it comes to actual stats and balancing then no, balance should definitely not suffer at the expense of realism. You realise that it's completely unrealistic anyway? A 30mm cannon or whatever penning a Sherman? So a pen buff means nothing.

[autumn zodiac]

It's sensibly stupidly bad

A 3 CM Cannon with a short barrel like that is not going to punch through armor easily

[unique scaffold]

But let’s leave realism out of this since we know WG doesn’t give a dam about it and the game isn’t based on it. This 3CM cannon punches through the Sherman front armour in game I believe. You can’t get more unrealistic than that. So since this is about balance not realism, in my opinion the leopard needs a pen buff.

[autumn zodiac]

No

It already can dish out 300+ damage a clip

That's in tier 5 where the HP pool is about 600 or so. The module damage is pretty decent for how many shots you get as well.

That aside that the armor is weirdly OK for a light, the body is compact, it gets light tank camo and can dash away after clip dumping?

It's fine.

[void siren]

It can also mount he and shred tracks

[scenic stone]

You do realize the MK 103 cannon on Leopard had 95 mm of APCR pen at 300m in real life right? In game its 99 so its not that far off.
Some sources say it got to 100mm.

[nimble zodiac]

80/110/15
84/116/17 CS

Not quite sure what you’re using, or maybe blitzhangar is being old

[jaunty dew]

Wtf. No Ace?

[willow hawk]

You can’t earn aces in event / game modes. Only in regs and ratings 🙄

[willow hawk]

Back in the day Vk16.01 Leopard could pen the sides of tier 6 tigers with little problem. Can dish out 300-400 easy.
Then WG did this:
-Nerf penetration to rock bottom
-Nerf number of bursts
-Nerf number of pcs/shots per burst
-nerf terrain tackling capabilities
-nerf gun handling

Now at best it does 250 per burst if you’re even lucky. And can’t even pen something like a Matilda. Issa joke tank now.

[nimble zodiac]

It's the most popular tank played by player count, though we'll have to wait to see since Medjay is probably soaring right now. It's really odd, because the stats are also pretty bad, low damage, and survival rate. That's the interesting part, it's almost like Leopard was designed to be both fun and not OP

[willow hawk]

Leo is not a fun tank anymore. I prefer Smasher type of fun. 😈 I gotta rep of sealclubbing to maintain

[wicked oracle]

My god I admire your dedication lol

[main tulip]

If you could ace in uprising I bet the bar would be like 12k or something lol

[turbid ice]

Imagine Boss Mode with Maus with a ace bar 💀

[unique rock]

12k is too easy to get in uprising. 18K+ sounds better

[unique scaffold]

Day one of asking for the fairest and most needed balance request ever: obj.263 is a terrible tank, that even fatness called « trash », which was both fun and fair before 9.1. Wg, you can reverse this change, if enough ask for it.
I hope that balance does it’s job, the tank had a signature playstyle, some strengths, many weaknesses, it was pretty, fun, enjoyable. Now it’s the worst tier ten tank.
Help object 263.

[main tulip]

I would argue 6k (ace bar for most tanks) is easier to get in normal mode than 18k is in uprising

[leaden flare]

only 12k ?
it woulde smth like 18k+ imo

[unique scaffold]

Lol not 12 k rather something like 15-16 at tier X

[main tulip]

yeah probably 16k now that I think about it

[unique scaffold]

Nerf type 71 armor

[unique scaffold]

That’s only if you can penetrate with AP. Which you can’t half the time even when flanking HTs. And meds have enough mobility to not be flanked, and are often armoured enough to need prammo for the front. Plus the terrible accuracy when firing because of the recoil dispersion means going for small weak spots and lower plates etc. will often only give you half damage. Ideally you find a Nashorne that you can get behind and HE. But that’s a very rare situation, the majority of the time you’ll be spamming prammo (which still has horrible pen) meaning you’ll still be bouncing some shells with the bad accuracy. So you’ll get 200 per clip maybe on average depending on the armour of the enemy line up. Heck I believe APCR can’t even pen the side of the kv 1, that’s just dumb. I mean sure you can get behind the rear but you’ll have to be directly behind probably, and that’s not always an option. It’s not a 1v1 situation always, sometimes the side of a tank is all you can get. And yes you can pen the front of a kv 1 but it’s only small strips which again with the terrible accuracy after firing you’re gonna be bouncing a lot.

@willow hawk I agree with you, I think WG had it too good so they did the classic overnerf where it’s hardly usable. Yes it’s kind of enjoyable but regardless the player stats are terrible for it. And I find it hard to enjoy something where getting 1k dmg is an achievement + you lose a ton of credits. (Not that I personally play tier V though). I think the accuracy balances out the clip potential, meaning pen should be buffed to maybe 95 without CS. APCR to perhaps 115-120. Still atrocious but at least you don’t feel hopeless in most situations.

No I think the tank is fine apart from the pen, the traverse and mobility are excellent so no need to buff those at all. I don’t know what the original pen numbers were but I’m pretty sure they were too high. I don’t think power creep is really a massive issue in tier V tbh.

[willow hawk]

Given the introduction of new tanks and accounting for powercreep, I think they should just reinstate the original stats to make it usable

[twin egret]

I got an interesting take on the stock gun on the bat chat. Despite beng objectively worse in almost everything, how about giving it a massive DPM buff to it, like, absurdly high for a light tank to have.

Sure you could argue that it wouldn't make a "difference" or something like that, because it has low pen and tanks need some amount of pen to at least pen tanks, but to that, it's ridiculous to think that

[main tulip]

if we have the AT7 with a 10 shot autoloader, then we can have high DPM stock bat chat too surely

[unique scaffold]

Honestly the more I see it the more I find it fine. If nerf there is it should be slight. The main problem with the tank is that noobs will just spam the cupola which gives reliable bounces, but: nerfing the cupola to an autopen state would make this an awful tank, certainly very bad

[lyric oracle]

Which Should i Research Better on Matilda to UK Tier V Tanks? Churchill I or Crusader? (XP on Matilda is - 9,500)

[fossil marten]

It’s funny you should mention the Sherman, I met one yesterday and this was the view with AP and then APCR, because I didn’t think I could reliably hit the turret at the range I was at. Granted he was slightly above me so getting some benefit of the front plate angle, but essentially AP couldn’t pen it frontally.
The reason I started this particular tank balance discussion was because of the frequency of having to use, and the bankruptcy inducing cost of, the APCR. Having read all of the contributions to this discussion, and particularly the list of nerfs posted @willow hawk and the fact that the game has moved on so much, I do think the Leopard could do with a little love from WG 🤷‍♂️

[unique scaffold]

Well that’s an uptier Sherman, I was talking about the tier V one which I believe leopard can pen. I don’t think anything needs buffing apart from the pen, the game hasn’t changed that much in tier V and the leopard is a balanced tank apart from the pen.

[main tulip]

Well the E8 only has 4mm more frontal armor thickness than the tier V one, though I'm not sure how much the angle and shape impacts that

[fossil marten]

Ah, ok, gotcha on the tier 5/6.
I agree that tier 5 hasn’t changed that much (although that new tier 5 heavy is a bit of a challenge for the Leo!) but I think tier 6 has (with all the battle pass tanks) and the Leopard really struggles, particularly against the heavies. I don’t mind the challenge of having to get behind or alongside them, that’s totally fair and balanced, but having done that, to not be able to pen the rear or some part of the sides with normal ammo, being forced to switch to really expensive gold isn’t right. If WG would reduce the cost of the APCR that’d be a good step, but I’d also agree with you that the AP pen needs a buff.

[teal crystal]

so return 95mm pen Leo

[twin egret]

I disagree, return the 45mm gun leo

[ebon lynx]

It had an 45mm?

[main tulip]

Inb4 derp gun leo

45mm was the single shot iirc

[fossil marten]

Can you remember what the penetration values were on that gun? It’s so long ago I’ve forgotten 😅

[light cloud]

w

[twin egret]

me neither

[silk hamlet]

pretty sure it was a 5cm but yes bring back the single shot leo

[orchid grove]

*50mm

[unique scaffold]

Why T54E1 doesn't have HE shell? WG should just give it stock standard 400 alpha HE shell
Or they could copy T54E2 HE shell, although that is unlikely

[prisma jetty]

The gun it uses never had an HE shell designed for it

[unique scaffold]

Last time I jokingly post about using historical basic for balance, I got piled on because apparently this community has a history with it. Anyhow this is a game, so HE shell for T54E1 when WG?

[frail helm]

Nerf medjay, it makes tier 5 not fun to play.

[coarse carbon]

Sealclubbing at its finest

[lean gate]

Day 95 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[frail helm]

Im not a seal clubber

[slender latch]

Is Medjay even OP for its tier?

[coarse carbon]

So what’s the point of playing tier V apart from Sealclubbing?

[real tangle]

@slender latch Its in mid tier, given that it is put with tier 6 plus the kv2 can punish it, but aside from that, the armor on it is a bit stronger than the excelsior, even a kv1 with a high pen gun would bounce if the player doesn't know where to aim

[high plover]

nerf 121b dpm and give it the turret more degrees frfr

[unique scaffold]

Nerf Obj.268/4 Armor

[nimble zodiac]

Buff your ability to aim at the cupola

[daring sierra]

Tiger II im dead brah any possible update on that tank so slow

[prisma jetty]

Nah, 121b is really solid right now

[jade cargo]

JákðbÝáкųźð[ŦЂЎ]#8273 has been warned.

__Rodney__#0237 has been warned.

Z3val_D_Dracul#2353 has been warned.

[drowsy plaza]

It’s a terrible tank. The only tier 5 heavy with worse DPM is the KV-1, go look at the Excelsior compared to the Medjay, the Medjay is a poor clone that is slower, with less DPM, worse Alpha, and worse hull armor (other than sides) and is slower.

[civic copper]

Give the FOCH 155 more frontal but less flank armor and make the Mag reload longer but the reload in between of the shots shorter

[tame basalt]

Buff your skills

[sleek pier]

What if the kv2's 152 drrp gun will be neft to non-existance

[prisma jetty]

Medjay’s frontal hull is better though…

It also has an auto loader that can dish out 440 damage if it hits all of its shots, which is pretty big in tier 5

[ebon lynx]

Yeah but good luck penning another Medjay

[worthy ruin]

? What did i do??

[turbid ice]

Check your DMs the reason is stated here

[worthy ruin]

It’s saying a took a screenshot but i didn’t 💀

[turbid ice]

That’s not really my business so just deal with it 🤷‍♂️

[pallid nest]

Why? All you need to do is think and aim. Armor is the only strength that tank has. Everything else is meh and even armor is weak immediately if the td turns a bit to the side. If you cannot deal with 268/4, you need to play better, cuz the tank is definitely not OP.

[turbid ice]

You can even pen the lower plate with HEAT easily

[drowsy plaza]

Medjay’s frontal hull isn’t better. 70 isn’t more than 120 (or 73 versus 125 using EA).

[drowsy plaza]

Get familiar with it in Armor Inspector, it’s really not hard to Pen.

[drowsy plaza]

Odd

[main tulip]

imagine needing armor inspector to figure out how to pen a tank that flat

[orchid gyro]

At least medjay served me well for 250 gold

[jade cargo]

kowal#7809 was banned

kowal#7809 was banned

[vast wyvern]

I just started to play again recently, i wonder whats your opinion on the T-34 shielded? It seems like avery unused tank

[light ivy]

Armor seems decent, same thing with the gun, but I sold it because of the mobility which is traded for the armor unlike the normal t34 which is quicker

[timid oxide]

buff 50B's pen, I get way too much bounces where I should not

[turbid ice]

Have you ever heard of prammo and calibrated shells ?

[timid oxide]

f prammo, and I prefer using improved vent, but I'll give a try to calibrated shells

hmmm I don't like to lose the 5% boost for my crew members to get only an extra 13mm of pen, 257 feels a bit low for a tier 10 anyway

[real bison]

the 5% crew increase barely changes anything 💀

[short idol]

hi devs i was just ganna ask to buff some armor or damage of the pershing because i feel like its left out in the dust by other t8 mts even Lts

[olive trail]

Please add more crew Skills and Perks like pc version. For example
: Snap Shot, Recon , Brothers in Arms, Signal Boosting, Eagle Eye ,Deadeye, Designated Target, Preventative Maintenance. And reduce reload time on FV 215b 183

[turbid ice]

Leave the reload out of this 💀

[unique scaffold]

Well, I think pershing is actually one of the best tier eight MTs. It's very strong when hull down.

@olive trail uhh did you just ask for a reload buff on the 183 😂 it's a meme tank not meant for winning. It's also easy to overbuff and make broken

[neat crescent]

Dang why is it that half of the time whenever i see a "this tank needs a buff" comment it's a perfectly good looking tank and the player likely suffers from skill issues?

[grizzled heron]

Asia server be like : 😂

[main tulip]

here we go with the asia server nonsense again
idk why you guys always seem convinced that your server is special

[hexed sierra]

Buff every tank, 10 second reload

[frail escarp]

Smasher mains when smasher’s armor gets nerfed:

[unique scaffold]

All the anti-smasher mains knowing it won't get nerfed but consoling themselves with comments like that

[halcyon oxide]

Buff the M46, maybe give it some more turret armor or pen

[unique scaffold]

To keep in with how the tank works I would buff top speed to 58, and maybe dispersion to 0.316.

Yes that's a massive buff an probably doesn't need that big of a buff. But armour should be left alone, instead the strengths of the tank should be focused on. And I think it needs some sort of buff, so let's say base dispersion to 0.316 or alternatively buff otm dispersion even more, then top speed to 54/6. Or leave the top speed and dispersion but buff aim time to 3.8, and add 5 view range. Although I think top speed is what it really needs.

[merry atlas]

I just need a good driver.

[stiff kelp]

I mean more skills sounds ok but it will make a even bigger gap between new and old players, i mean I think it's ok for you to have some advantages for just playing more time, but already think more advantages will make it more unfair for new and mid game players

[short acorn]

wojoo the medjay needs to be nerfed asap.and it's armor it is broken asf.they gotta lower the hp and the rload speet needs to be nerfed to 18 seconds

[timber schooner]

I think you should make the 53 tp`s reload less

[cerulean mason]

You need to buff the DPM of the AMX 30B. Yet again. It’s not balanced yet. How can you not see this? All the YouTubers agree. It’s a premium and rare tank. It should be better than the Leopard 1

[unique scaffold]

Stop, how does a tank being rare/collector = it should be better than a tech tree?

[lunar niche]

You didn't pay WG enough money so they won't buff it.

[surreal fossil]

Hm

[orchid grove]

50 b's problem isn't the pen. It's the accuracy

@timid oxide I would stick with vents. Your problems will get worse with cali

[jolly phoenix]

Lol WG should nerfed grille 15 reloading

[warm surge]

lol7

[olive trail]

The APAC server is the toughest and hardest to get M.

@solar sorrel Hello developers, i would like to ask if you are going to add crew skills as on the PC version for example: "Snap Shot, Recon , Brothers in Arms, Signal Boosting, Eagle Eye ,Deadeye, Designated Target, Preventative Maintenance". Thank a lot.

[solar sorrel]

don't have such plans mate

[lean gate]

Day 96 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[turbid ice]

I see

[peak echo]

Thought About the nerf of t25AT

1. Armors
   T25AT has 196mm equivalent armor to AP shells on flat ground(fig. 1), which is a fairly reasonable level that can stand against most standard ammo from same tier Mt, but no chance to HtsTDs, let alone tier 8 battles which is rather frequently seeing nowadays. However, the charm of t25AT is you can use its gun depression to increase your equivalent armor to 220mm(fig.2), still fragile to tier 8 but you can get many ricochets when operate properly. You need a lot of skill and very good understanding of the characteristics of terrain to make this happen. Nerf its frontal armor to 120mm would completely destroy its ricochet potential by using gun depression, which is the core joy of the beautiful little vehicle.

2. Competition environment
   What am I experiencing more and more when playing tier 7 is that you are doomed to be smashed and annihilated by those shiny premium tier 8s, and monster tier 7s. Please don’t get me wrong. I buy premiums myself, I just want to speak for those low-paying or new-comers. There should be some competitive tech line vehicles for them to study and progress, considering the monster rampage tier 7&8 environment. T25AT is such a good represent of Tech line tanks that is not flawlessly strong but powerful in the right hands!

3. Overall statistics data
   Last but not least, the long statistics data is a good proof of what we have talked above(fig. 3): the long term 49.35 winrate (bottom one third)ranking of the T25AT indisputably suggests it might need some kinds of buff instead of nerf. Most interestingly it has less frontal armor and less accuracy and less dpm than Jpanther. I just sincerely hope developers leave these cute tier 7 tds what it is if not buff. T25AT has the unique gaming experience throughout the game, no any other tds in any other tiers have similar play style and experience. May I ask you do me the favor to give the feedback to devs? Thx!@solar sorrel

[drowsy plaza]

Overall statistics show that the player base is in need of serious help, not necessarily tanks.

[uneven venture]

Those look like personal stats, rather than overall playerbase.

While I like the 25AT's current profile, I don't think this nerf is going to make it a bad tank. It will still have some advantages over its tier 7 td counterparts, and will still struggle vs tier 8s(as tier 7s ought)

[peak echo]

Statistics certainly don't represent the full story of a tank, Therefore. Please don't take the statistics out of context and ignore the previous details and environmental analysis. And statistics do show how the majority of players perform in a certain tank. There is no need to show arrogance to casual players, as they make up the majority of player base. I would desperately thank you if you can help them improve.

[peak echo]

Thanks for your reply. Here is the official description from blitzstar. Data from other perspective also shows it’s not an op tank. Nerfing its frontal armor to 120mm and dpm would change it profoundly, which impair the most important characteristic it relays on.

[jaunty jolt]

I can't imagine. Can you be more informative and explain?

[real bison]

honestly to change the 30B you need to change either the STB or Leo 1 first, and it’s easier to change the Leo 1. WG want the Leo 1 to be a sniper support medium. What the Leo 1 can’t do however, is be a sniper support medium as it is now. They could give it 400 alpha, and better pen, reducing the DPM to the 2.8-3k range, and then and only then you can make the 30B the high DPM, highly accurate, highly mobile tank that it should be and deserves to be.

[lunar niche]

I support the 400 alpha, higher pen Leo1.