tank-balance-discussion

[deep temple]

Ok my series of asking buff since WG kind enough to buff the 30b even tho it's not enough but thank you.

Day 1 of asking WG to return back the T57 armor during pbr release

[leaden flare]

when will STA 1 get a buff thatll make it anywhere close to useful
the tank has literally nothing good about it

[lean gate]

Day 52 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[unique scaffold]

You know that it seriously doesn’t do anything and never will, please don’t start another one it really just fills the chat up for no reason 😬

[main tulip]

Buff the skoda t56. Make it go atleast 56 speed

[unique scaffold]

They didn’t buff it, it’s still horrible

Please buff 50b it’s just not on par with other heavies. It needs dpm, accuracy, and a slightly shorter intraclip

[unique scaffold]

T57 is insanely strong when you see what 50b has; really, before they were equal, now t57 is an automatic choice. I pray they give Amx a buff

[orchid grove]

All 50 B needs is just the accuracy nerfs to be undone. Other than that, I think it’s in a fine spot

[faint nest]

Hi what do you think about the wz 111 5a

[unique scaffold]

Amx even though it has similarities is quite different, and Posit1ve has some interesting things to say about it since the update, I can't say I completely agree but the accuracy back would definitely help, and I think a shorter inter clip would make it excellent, although it wouldn't be the same as it was before the update (and probably not tourney meta still) it would be a good tank

[slender latch]

50B needs its old 3-shot gun with pre-9.2 stats . Unless it was busted pre-9.2

[unique scaffold]

I don't think it was busted, but it was certainly very strong, all meta tanks have their hey day though and can't be expected to be like that forever. IMO the stupidest change in tier ten was with the grille, it got better traverse sure but top speed was nerfed, and they nerfed the alpha without even giving it a reload buff to keep dpm the same, I mean this is a tank that certainly wasn't meta and imo needed a buff, but practically got a substantial nerf instead.

[twin egret]

Its gun arc should be 90° each side

[safe rapids]

It already is a viable option. It’s just a slightly less ok gun than the T71 but is on a more flexible platform (-10 gun depression and higher HP)
Doesn’t need a buff, it’s fine where it is.

[unique scaffold]

Lol it has never ever been op. Near meta but nothing like t110e5. If E100 needed that nice of a buff at 9.1, 50b needed as much of a buff. I would give the 4 shell gun a 21 sec reload and the old accuracy; and that won’t solve the intraclip problem. I know that 2.75 intraclip like the bc would be actually nice

Nah intraclip too. Truth is even with 2.5 it wouldn’t be op but it would still be too strong for a tank you’re all used to bully with he and love being quite bad in compensation for being the easiest thing to hit in the entire game. I think it would need a 2.6 intraclip in compensation but I guess it will be 2.75.

Nothing easier. Fv4005 is second because it’s not that big and it’s a sniper. Grille is much more trollish imo, way smaller too, way better camo. But my point is it is comparable, not to heavies, but to paper td’s on the matter of armor

The least they could do it accuracy and 2.75 intraclip. Won’t fix but will make it just more playable and decent. By making you actually able to unload all 4 shells more than once a game.

[slim geyser]

@safe rapids read this pls

Also the autoloader gun has -8 on the bulldog, not -10

[lunar niche]

4005 has better camo than Grille.

[unique scaffold]

Can we all agree on one thing ? German tech tree is the goal for every other tech tree. Every tank is different. Every tank is balanced since 9.2.
To me it is the most balanced tech tree and the only one where every tank is enjoyable (with Britain, but Britain has fv4005 which feels off and deserves a nerf, while some others change require more changing).

E50M was nerfed on alpha, dpm and accuracy for the speed and armor it got.
Jageroo is finally decent at its job, enjoyable.
Maus still needs some love but it’s almost there.
All 3 other heavies are fine to me and different from each other. Vk 72 draws power from the tungsten shells, vk 90,has the best sidescraping and high pen, E100 has the armor it always needed and a (nerfed) but still useful big alpha gun.

Kpfz 50t, E50 M and leopard are all different from each other, balanced and enjoyable too. For every one of their flaws, they have an asset.
Leo finally got its full meaning with that alpha.
E50M pbr is beautiful and tough as it should, being compensated by the accuracy and alpha nerfs especially.
Kpfz 50t is a mix of both with an emphasis on dpm.
I also find interesting that their utility on the battlefield is also shown by their alphas: 320, 340, 360.

Now the grille 15 is special, I personally think it’s much better since the update, but maybe they could give it some more camo on the move to encourage moving with it. I play it aggressively and it’s a blast

So I’d say 10 mm for the sides of the vk 72, 3000 health for the maus or/and 255 pen on its gun, and camo on the move for the grille. But that’s just slight changing.

I am very eager to see wg give us the tier X light for Germany (the reinmetal). One suggestion would ba a fast reloading 320 alph gun and a great he penetration, on the tracks of ru251 and leKPFZ, with the exact same playstyle. Maybe something like 120, should be more than vickers. Would be balanced because of he-ability and low alpha. Would need some depression and greatest camo

[safe rapids]

Oops 🤡
And yeah your point makes sense

[orchid grove]

Faster interclip is toxic. You should not be able to unload large magazines quickly.

I am FIRMLY against interclip buffs. To gain the benefit of a large magazine, you should need a long unload time.

You should have to work to unload those 4 shells, but in return, you are properly rewarded for it.

[unique scaffold]

No you are not. I absolutely agree with you that intraclip buffs are toxic. But what to do ? When other auto loaders can have instant burst equipment ?

All autoloaders should lose that equipment for the least

And Amx 50b as you say should be rewarded better for it, with 400 alpha instead of 380 for example

[winged barn]

Uhhhh...

Nerf the instaburst obviously

Clip adrenaline was fine before buffing/ adding it fast dumping tanks

[silk geode]

Why WG not buff T110E5 for Type 71 counter?

Make E5 more agile like using MT

[winter plover]

That would just make another tank to be annoying to deal with instead of a counter.

If a tank are too good on something just directly nerf it, powercreeping makes things even more complicated. Main example are the Tier VII after the halloween tanks were released.

[nimble zodiac]

The problem with Type 71 was the mobility + armor + HP. Let’s not include T110E5 in the problem

[slender latch]

Yeah why'd you think people kept complaining about the 4005, T57, and TVP

[quick lichen]

You don’t see a whole lot of T57 complaints or praise really

It seems rather fine where it is?

Double tvp platoons however are sort of terrifying

[unique scaffold]

Well T 57 overall received a nerf I think, although turret armour was buffed it wasn't enough to counter the hull armour nerf, making it far less troll, and it received very substantial turret turn rate and accuracy nerfs, while gaining intra clip consumables etc. (I think dpm remained the same?) Anyway it's not OP since the update, if anything worse, so I don't see a reason to complain as it wasn't really unbalanced before the update and is still a great tank.
@unique scaffold yeah that's what I was saying, it's not OP, I was answering the person above me who was unsure whether it was broken pre update. And btw I agree with your thing on the German tree, although grille could definitely keep its top speed and alpha while gaining the traverse buff and still not be meta IMO but good enough

[slender latch]

If you compare it to the 50B tho I think T57 supercedes it in terms of DPM plus intraclip booster

[unique scaffold]

Yeah it does in those areas, but I wasn't comparing it, I was saying it's good as it is for both teams, I don't think it needs touching

[silk geode]

Nah I think nerf t57 is no need , because conqueror can still pen he on his back turret

[unique scaffold]

That's an odd way to judge whether a tank needs a nerf, but I agree it doesn't need one

[unique burrow]

T57 is more a Support Heavy… so why it should get more Armor then needed… it‘s more Trolle Armor then effective Armor

[unique scaffold]

Nah you're lying from the first sentence bro. Bro. Pls be honest. It got the biggest buff of its history
It just got viable everything in one update, you can't tell me you were doing better in it before ? And even then, statistically 99.95% of players just increased their Wingate with it by a lot

Agreed on grille tho

[unique scaffold]

Call it a rework then, I did say "I think" it was a nerf, but I certainly wouldn't agree its a buff, at most it was a change to the tanks style

[trail wolf]

Biggest buff? Dude dunno what u've been smoking but the biggest buff it had was legit its pbr update... Adding a consumable and nerfing armor doesn't seem like a HUGE buff to me but k...

[silk hamlet]

yeah giving it that consumable that turns it to a 3 clip yoh is totally not a huge buff /s

[unique scaffold]

At the same time it received an accuracy nerf and a substantial turret traverse nerf, and an overall armour nerf. Go check the list of changes made to the T 57 on blitz stars, IMO it was nerf, however I can also see how it could be looked at as a rework, but it wasn't a flat out buff I don't think

[silk hamlet]

doesnt really matter when you can burst someone for 1.2k in less than 4 seconds

[slender latch]

Didn't it get 1 sec. removed on reload and turret armor buff?

[midnight linden]

Added 1 sec

[simple glacier]

well, it was 1 sec faster reload, which was then reverted

[unique scaffold]

So now the same 🧠. Also @ Kabisote yes it received a turret armour buff, but it wasn’t large enough to make any real difference, and it simultaneously received a hull armour nerf which was big enough to make a difference, so the armour was actually nerfed, you can now fairly easily pen both the hull and turret, and the turret is only ever so slightly more troll (haven’t really noticed tbh)

[lean gate]

Day 53 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[unique scaffold]

#replays mate

[unique scaffold]

That is false tho. « It wasn’t large enough to make a difference » I get bounces all the time.

This tank needs a 3 sec intraclip anyways

@lean gate one day, they will see this and upgrade the progetto. It needs love 😉

[quiet pilot]

fixing the matchmaker is more important than balancing tanks

[unique rock]

Ah yes 2 tier 9 heavies vs 3 tier 10 heavies

MM defenders: bUt YoU hAvE 3 TiEr 10 Td 🤡

[nimble zodiac]

Because that makes it totally okay to post that in this channel 🤨

[fervent notch]

HUH

[unique scaffold]

Progetto needs huge accuracy low armor

[hollow adder]

Progetto is good as it is though

[quick lichen]

Read the second pinned message🤓

[unique scaffold]

Hmm it bounced plenty before, and although I can’t speak from having it I can say it doesn’t seemed to have made a difference when aiming at the turret (and I play meds a lot which have low pen)

[unborn jay]

I am once again begging you to balance the number of medium tanks on each team. BATTLES ARE UNWINNABLE AND UNPLAYABLE when the other team has 1 or 2 or 3 more mediums and the map is medium dominated. How many games that end in 2 minutes flat on Hellas or Port bay or any other medium dominated map does it take to realize how terrible the current matchmaking system is. I’m done with it. It’s stupid. And your refusal to fix it is too

[leaden flare]

Hellas isn't med dominated

[unborn jay]

If you think that C doesn’t control Hellas then you have no clue how Hellas works. Even in supremacy A and B are practically useless. You just get enclosed on from all sides of the map and you have basically no good cover unless you want to side scrape in an e100. And good luck convincing a team of 7 to go to the flank when half of them probably don’t even have the chat on or speak English, and the other half are too young or ignorant to care. The blitz player base use to be so much more filled with English speaking and talkative people that map strategies could be more fluid, but nowadays, rarely if ever will you convince a team with something like 3 heavies that they shouldn’t just go to town. Couple that with the increasing number of people who camp in heavy or light tanks and for some reason never receive a punishment for what in my mind is basically rigging and team composition decides half the games you play. of course no dev will probably ever read this and even if they do they clearly won’t care because if they gave two sh its about making the game better and not just adding hd textures and more premium tanks they would have changed the matchmaker a long time ago. There’s people in tier 10 with 50 damage per battle getting put on teams with 3 similar players. You don’t play soccer and put the guys against the girls or the pros against some 40 year old dads. Everyone knows a team game is no fun that way. How the hell is blitz any different. I see 90% of my losses and wins coming before the battle even starts. All that’s necessary is something that says each team needs an average damage range within 300 of each other or something. That’s it. That would make so many games so much closer and maybe even compell people to try. Ive have days recently where I averaged 3600 damage in tier 10 and over 30 games, lost most of them. If that isn’t evidence that battles are barely even battles anymore, idk what is

[unique scaffold]

You are complaining about MM balance and possibly map balance, this is for tank balance.

[leaden flare]

Well I don't have any issues winning on Hellas on either side and meds weren't dominant at all for me

[unborn jay]

Where is this energy anymore? Where is an update on how many games end in 7-0 or 7-1? I wholeheartedly understand that unwinnable games and annoying dynamics are part of the game but why does it seem like you guys put no effort into changing anything? You must know full well that “toxic battle results” happen because of skill imbalances. Skill imbalances that have only gotten worse over the past few years. And certainly you can’t ban or punish players for not being at the same skill level as others, but is there any way you can push them to do better? Or introduce a game mode based on rating that affects your stats? A separate queue for people who want more balanced battles? It just seems to me like there is no road to improvement right now and that blitz is sitting in between an amazingly fun game and a failed state of half the veteran player base leaving because the teams are so terrible and filled with players who don’t try. And I see no road to improvement when it comes to 7-0s or 7-1s.

[fickle solstice]

Smasher very balanced 😃

[unique scaffold]

Well, tbh of course there are bad players, but I think part of the “skill imbalance” as you call it is actually that as the game has gotten older and tactics more advanced and widespread, there’s a lot of guys around that would have been pros when it first came out but are now just average players. And there’s also some that are extremely skilled, which are way above the playerbase, so that makes for an imbalance

[unique scaffold]

It freaking isn't. The accuracy is way too low. At the second the carro45t will release it will be an obsolete pile of trash.

Bro normalize not accepting underpowered tanks. Yes it is fine, yes it is playable, yes i can have 3 k games in it.

But please go check it in 5k+ ranked. There it is extremely bad. It is an under average tank with useless armor that should be deleted (mantlet) in exchange of very good accuracy. I just don't see why such a fragile and low DPM tank would be this inaccurate.

Also, the autoreload mechanic is being largely paid for already by the DPM. No need to also give it a trash accuracy

[slender latch]

I actually remember WG saying that LTs/MTs would get distributed equally on each side still waiting on that, like they did with the Anni

[unique scaffold]

They are balanced out I believe, just that exceptions are made due to queue times etc.

[dusky oxide]

Why was 121B given these weird consumables that have nothing to do with its playstyle and its primary shells have been switched from apcr to ap? The buff they have it before that was to its turning rate. What is this all about?

The tank doesn't perform very well compared to other tier x meds. It is also disappointing to play and adding small trinkets wont fix it. I liked it when it was a vanilla medium much like the type 59. Then it stood out as the tank that was not trying to be anything special, just the only tank with a t-54 style hull but it had the aplha of a 105mm gun.

It was a fusion of those things and it was very versatile. Imo adding some consumables isn't going to make this tank good or interesting.

Just my thoughts.

[slender latch]

On rare occasions, 7/10 matches it's not

[unique scaffold]

Huh? Mostly it’s pretty good, of course lights and meds aren’t distinct. Even when it’s not perfect it’s still good enough, one less med one more TD, I mean that’s the difference between a paper TD and an armoured one, there’s always gonna be “imbalance” because playstyles vary widely within each classification anyway.

[sleek grove]

sometimes the MM gets drunk and puts 2 meds/tds/lights/heavies in my team and none in enemy team, or the other way around, happened quite a few times by now and its really frustrating

[unique scaffold]

Yeah, but tbh it often works out differently than expected, each tank role has strengths and none of them are end-all, and probably makes for a more interesting game than a “perfectly” balanced one

[unique scaffold]

Guys what you think about Maus ? To me it is extremely rare and not played because of how bad it is. Terribly underpowered. Penetration, dpm, accuracy very low; and turret cheeks still don’t bounce medium apcr. You just don’t compensate in any stat for the worst speed in the tier, nor for the worst gun. The cheeks should be even stronger imo, no reason why a tank so slow and bad at shooting shouldn’t be absolutely impenetrable frontally

[distant river]

The job of the maus is not to deal damage, it's to take focus and it does that fantastically well. It doesn't need more buffs.

[proper heath]

Gg i need 1 gold to buy the box😂

[unique scaffold]

Here I can see that you don’t play it. You love it because you are an op tank spammer who like to farm on it. It’s job is not to take focus but to bounce the shells once it takes focus and it does that terribly bad. I suggest a strongest cheek because it should be impervious to anything below 285 on a slight angling considering how bad it is at shooting. I do good in regular games and horrible in high ratings. Why ?

Because that tank is trash. No tank should be automatically useless one you spam gold shells.

Either delete gold shells or keep your bad opinion of having underpowered tanks and being fine with it because you play the op ones and enjoy being the gold noob. I strive for a harder and better game by improving the underdogs.

Maus doesn’t do good at its job. At least 3 k hp and a 20 mm increase on the entire turret front like E100.

No reason to ever pick it over E100 or VK 90 right now, even for taking focus. It should do it twice better than them considering it’s gun. Hence you are lying and being an immobilist while our duty in tank balance discussion should be to point out which tanks need a balance.

Maus is so bad at its job that it needs a buff the most. You get bullied in the front by heat of m48 Patton, even very angled, because the turret is simply way too thin.

[pallid nest]

I pretty much never play maus cuz of how weak the turret front is...
That measly 10mm buff did nothing to help resist gold spam with the turret cheeks.

[prisma jetty]

If you have trouble bouncing in the Maus, you aren’t angling it properly. The thing is the most survivable tank in the game, or at least it should be.

[unique scaffold]

I agree Maus could possibly have a buff, perhaps gun handling and amazing AP pen like the VK 90 and a slightly stronger upper plate, but Honourless had a decent point and anyway it’s his opinion, don’t call people liars etc. that’s not what this channel is for. @leaden flare the original message pointed the M48 out as an example, and it has average HEAT pen for a med. With CS it’s 330 or so not 370

[distant river]

It's job is to take the focus. Bouncing is part of that, and it fulfils that job very well. It's huge chunk of hp backs it up in all other areas. The tank is not trash, and it does brilliantly against gold shells. Well angled it'll bounce most things thrown at it, and on top of that it lowers the reds dpm against your huge amount of hp. If you aren't bouncing a Patton on the turret then you need to check your angles because it holds up plenty well enough, even against CS and without EA.

[leaden flare]

Well that is a m48 Patton heat that's like what 300 without Cs and even with cs it's slightly below avg for t9 and 10 heavys

The 370 heat can just pen the ufp if you're close enough

Against TDs it's screwed anyway but that isn't that much of an issue

[distant river]

Even against 373HEAT on the flat ground and in the open it holds up well. A little big of wiggling and it'll flash from red to grey in a couple of degrees. And HEAT spam isn't going to help you against 2850/3021hp even if you do pen

[unique scaffold]

So misleading.

The m48 has to turn 2 meters right in the first picture and then it just butters through the turret.

Next, you mentioned the Maus would « take the focus » how are you supposed to take the focus if you struggle in a super heavy super super slow tank, to bounce the shell of only one MEDIUM (I repeat, medium) tank in enemy team ? You’re just proving how urgent of a huge buff it needs. First picture should be second picture. First picture should be against 320 heat

And stop with the hp you’re ridiculous that’s just a damage piñata, heat will get you to 0 too lol. Remember you admitted yourself you wouldn’t deal damage. So you’re supposed to last the whole game and to take focus from at least 2 enemies while your team performs.

We agree on this but you show yourself and prove in your screens how Maus is struggling to already « take the focus » of one enemy medium, and how easily it would get gangbanged.

Please play those 50 games at 5k ratings and come back when you’ll agree with me

My point is just logic. The e100 is fair. It has a great hp and armor and very decent gun. So if the Maus is fair, considering it’s gun, it should have a much much better armor than the e100. While it is… worse. The cheeks should obviously be stronger to make you angle less to bounce.

[unique scaffold]

The first picture is shown with calibrated shells, therefore it’s around 330 HEAT (standard for a med). The picture proves that if angled correctly the armour still works, and sure the angle may not be perfect in battle but a bit of wiggling will make it very hard to pen indeed.

[unique rock]

The e100 is overall better than the Maus now. My opinion anyways. You have to be a really good player to properly angle a Maus. Even then you are no match for another good player. Maus is easily penned by high enough heat rounds.

[unborn jay]

The problem is with every buff comes a difference to the tanks potential. Give maus more armor and in the right hands it might be overpowered. But in those without the skill to use it, it might seem balanced. It’s like how grille was nerfed and nobody understood why, cause most people didn’t use it properly, and thought it was terrible cause they had the wrong playstyle. Some tanks will on average have worse player base statistics or be used less because there’s more of a skill requirement to play them right, but I think that means that buffing them might make them too strong in certain situations or in the right persons hands. Maus could maybe use a slight buff given it’s not played nearly as much anymore, but I would advise against buffing or nerfing tanks every 10 seconds just because they are or aren’t in the meta.

[unique scaffold]

Wiggling has been nerfed. You know what, you’re all answering and affirming things which such a. Huge bad faith (I mean that’s a ridiculous tank no one plays and you keep bullying, none of you would suffer going through 5 games playing it yet you dare type « yep it does a marvellous job »). So I will play 300 games with it, in ratings, normal battle, everywhere, record them all. And show you. You’ll still claim it’s skill issue as that’s the only thing you’ll know to do so I’ll also provide e100 and vk90 and vk72 gameplay so that you have to admit. Then you will all ask wg to buff the underdog. I maintain Maus would still be bad with 25 additional mm of armor o, the cheeks.

It’s a lot of time, but Maus is worth it. It needs much more dedication than @lean gate gives to the progetto. It is worst than the t110e5 (yes) and that’s a lot to say

[unique scaffold]

It’s not about how bad you or I would do in it, I personally think it could do with a small buff, but regardless your point was proven to be wrong so why not just admit it, screenshots don’t lie

[distant river]

It's not misleading, it's the worst case scenario (No EA, against CS prammo) and it's still doing great.

Taking hits is taking the focus. That's a part of the game, you won't bounce every shell but you don't have to at all. In a straight dpm race with prammo, the maus survives with 450hp, assuming the M48 pens every shot.

I have played the maus a fair amount including ratings and tourneys and it works brilliantly. The E100 is overperforming so please don't try say the maus should be at that level. It's possible to do better in the maus compared to the E100 but it takes more skill and knowledge.

[unique scaffold]

Lol he literally shows the slowest and biggest and heaviest tank in the game having to turn the turret I don’t know how much to try and bounce a small medium (btw as far of the meta as could be), and still pennable like butter in the lower plate, and you come at me and call this a proof ?

Is it normal to you that the type 71 which is twice faster would happily a,d retardedly face the m48 and just rush at it bouncing any apcr without any effort at the same time ?

How can that coexist in the same game at the same tier ? How do you call that fair ?

Aren’t you both ashamed ?

And what about the second screen ? It’s even worse, you see how easily any TD will penetrate easily the supposedly best armor in the game, while angled as much as possible, and that other guy dares to say « wiggle and it’ll be fine » lol, the screen shouts the opposite, half the screen is green…

Nothing should butter through an angled frontal Maus. Nothing except ho-ri’s normalised gold shells.
E100 isn’t over performing I believe it feels just good and fair; eland even then, are vk 90 and vk 72 over performing ? Because they are clearly both much better than the Maus too !

It CAN perform well. As any tank. But if the entire tier, it is the worst. I can’t do worst in anything else. Especially in tourneys or high ratings

[unborn jay]

No tank is ever going to be overpowered or perfect in one situation. People see a weakness in maus and assume that because it’s the most armoured tank in the game that it should be almost imprenetrable. Or that the 183 gun should be buffed to the point of stupidity. There’s other aspects to the tank that you have to play with regardless, so buffing one isn’t the point. However, I’d say you’re right about type 71. The thing has a little too much armour imo right now. A slight angle and you’ll bounce 90% of shells on your sides even from TDs unless you aim carefully. Given it’s mobility it’s too much. And a great turret. The tank doesn’t really have a weak spot or a fundamental flaw from what I’ve seen. And it needs one

[lean gate]

Day 54 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[unique scaffold]

You shouldn’t be alone, that’s a recipe for disaster in any tank, and even then if you got out manoeuvred by an M48 the armour is thick enough all around that either it would bounce a lot of shells or the M48 would lose DPM waiting to fire at pennable spot as it circles. A type 71 can’t bounce everything from an M48, which doesn’t have APCR but HEAT, which is decent enough to go through the upper plate with CS depending on the angle. Anyway, comparing a tank that people think is OP is quite frankly stupid, if the Type 71 is as good as you think then nerf it, don’t buff the Maus to make it comparable. If you go read your original post you say something about the Maus not being capable of bouncing M48 prammo or something, Honourless has proven you more than wrong, instead of changing to other arguments like comparisons admit that you’re wrong, and then argue if you think it’s still not good enough for some other reason. I’m more than happy to have a decent debate about tank balance, but please try to keep it reasonable and civil, you started off by insulting Honourless. That isn’t an argument, if his point was so stupid that it deserved an insult then prove him wrong, don’t ignore the point made.

[distant river]

"I can't do worse in anything else" and "it's the worst tank at the tier" are very very different things to say. One is an opinion that can be improved through listening to advice, and the other is factually inaccurate. The VK90 is also overperforming and the VK72 has an extremely different role.

As I made clear 374 HEAT on flat ground in the open is not a common scenario to face, and yet it's still easily manageable with wiggling.

And please don't try compare it to the type71, another overperforming tank with a hugely different role, it's just useless to look at the together.

[unique rock]

If ya'll not using your Maus to help the team win by blocking enemy from advancing then idk what ya playing a Maus for.

Question, would you block 2-3 enemy heavy tanks with your 1800 hp from killing your 500 health support heavy behind you?

If not then why play a Maus. The thing is bigger than an a house and if your intention is to play it like a regular side scraping heavy for the entirety of the game, don't expect wins. Maus is a blocking heavy. That said, I do believe the upper plate needs a major buff.

[real bison]

a double maus platoon can easily help a team win games if they play smart, and the rest of the team know how to take advantage of them

[unique scaffold]

Not almost impenetrable but compensating for trash gun and trash mobility for the least. How could a type 71 or E100 just face you and shoot you while as a Maus you would have to angle like no tomorrow ?
Which is what I do.

Also, my question remains: for the take focus boy:
How am I supposed to take focus if I must make this much efforts for a single medium ? That’s right, I can’t. I can’t take he focus from their team. I can barely take the focus from two tanks as my armor works only in certain angles and the two tanks can split and not necessarily shoot form the same place, ESPECIALLY if you consider it normal that a medium tank butters through me with its special shell 😉

Only hing you can do is take one tank at a time where it will overtrade you in every way. @unique scaffold ofc im not alone I have every tier X and play since 8 years I know the basics. Also I play the Maus perfectly but still it underperforms, still too easy. Well @distant river you were actually kinda serious until now but you just lost all credibility. So all German heavies but Maus are over performing ?

Classical skill issue discourse.

You’ll call half the tanks of the game over performing so that your arguments make a point. But no my dear it doesn’t work that way. Imagine you claimed t110 e5 is underperforming then use similar speed / gun/ size tanks to compare then I just tell you that t95 is over performing, concept 1b is over performing, obj 260 is over performing, type 71 is over performing, wz 111 5A is over performing , Fv 215b and chieftain mk6 are over performing, etc.

The German heavies are far from over performing enough for it to be any pertinent in your arguments.
And you must take a grasp of the new meta bro ! Since 9.1 much has changed and seeing as you speak and on trading yourself constantly I bet the only tanks you would find actually not over performing are t110e5, Maus, obj 260, and Amx 30 b which I would all call very bad tanks.

[prisma jetty]

The Maus is not a damage farming tank, it is a free steel wall. It is completely unlike pretty much anything else in the game where it is made to pretty much sit in front of the enemy all day, seeing their shells bounce again and again

[unborn jay]

Grille is not underperforming, it’s just that nobody knows how to play it. I can go out and play grille right now and average easily better than I can in any tier 10. Grille is not a sniper

[jade cargo]

thehackofzwerg#4683 was muted

[unique scaffold]

So if you’re not alone presumably you’re in a decent position with your lower plate hidden, and the M48 can’t just rush you and force you to have a turret turn rate contest as you’re with support? Maus will do far better than the M48 in that situation. Also what Honourless said, not sure why you’re just ignoring the screenshot which proved (your original point anyway) completely wrong.

[distant river]

In general heavies are overperforming, the maus is at the lower end of heavies and is therefore balanced.

And please don't fall down the "skill issue" route it's just embarrassing to watch

Also we have already established that meds cannot open with prammo in the worst case scenario for the maus so idk why you are still repeating something different. And saying you play the maus perfectly is a very very bold thing to claim, but please I'd love to see your 100% WR in it to back it up

[unique scaffold]

Nah you are falling down the skill issue route lol that’s some cars 2 level of arguing and literally using my arguments against me like a 5 year old that just read the back of How To Always Be Right, I am absolutely opposed to that route it’s my crusade.

Lol excellent one about the heavies, at least you admit it. So I did guess two things right: you believe half the tier tens are over performing and you need a math course.

We didn’t establish nothing. You showed a screen that actually supported my point. I will repeat one last time:
-m48 has depression and that lower plate is still hittable as ever
-m48 is fast and even though you captured the short two second glimpse where it wouldn’t be able to butter though the turret it is obvious to any human being that 2 seconds later it will encounter your slow and angled turret at an angle so steep it will in fact literally face it and butter through it with regular AP if it wants; see you forgot the mobility, and still support my point that no super heavy super slow super bad gun tank like the Maus should do that much efforts to bounce a freaking medium, frontally !

I never claimed I was a great player; I claimed I wasn’t a bad one, especially answering to the guy that DID GO the « skill issue » route, @unique scaffold. I just perfectly know how I’m supposed to constantly angle it and everything, I’m not saying I’m fatness, I’m just saying that when you claim I say it underperforms and is bad because of my skill, you’re wrong. It’s because of the tank being bad.

[distant river]

Mathematically half of tier 10 will be overperforming and half will be underperforming so I don't think it's the answer you want, but yes.

M48s depression is irrelevant, and we were talking about the turret so I didn't bother angling the hull correctly. The M48 is adequately fast for a med, but unless it's literally circling the maus' traverse can keep up perfectly well.
This is all in the absolute worst case scenario, and it's still in favour of the maus. Take off CS, or add on EA, or give the maus cover etc etc etc and it's obvious what you get.

You claimed you played the maus perfectly. You may know what to do, but whether you actually put it into practice is entirely different. Also you were complaining about how it did in rating battles but you only have 5 battles in ratings...?

As general advice for everyone, don't pretend you have nothing to learn. Everyone has places to improve and things to get better at. The moment you accept this and stop blaming other things is the moment you'll actually start improving.

Also if you want an idea of how to play the maus well I played a ratings battle in it just now, replay is here #replays message (had 150-250 ping so not quite an elegant game and replay may be a little jagged but wasn't a bad game)

[unique scaffold]

Well I think you’ve gotten confused between my points and honourlesses, I don’t blame you tbh 😂, but I’ll answer the point directed at Honourless as it’s actually replying to what I was saying. If you’re not alone, you shouldn’t have an issue angling vs an M48, if the M48 is smart it’ll be peeking hull down, it won’t be rushing around to pen a shot, if it does it’ll die before you do. You would have to be an incredibly bad player and playing it far from perfectly if an M48 was allowed to win a flat out 1v1 against you, if you include team play etc. then the Maus armour is more than adequate against an M48, as proven by the screenshot sent earlier. Low turret traverse doesn’t matter when presumably facing a hull down M48, you should be able to turn enough that the angles are roughly correct, especially if you play it perfectly and know your angles, which without being rude you clearly don’t.

Well you just said before that it wasn’t underperforming nor over performing lol that’s why I mentioned the maths
But we’ll that’s not the first time you’re contradictory

So you admit that half the time you say something is over performing is not pertinent.
When I say a tank is under performing or over performing I don’t mean statistically, herds of noobs and premium Mechanics, the existence of unicums and several other things make the numbers that you find on blitzstars untrustworthy.

I mean by that that I overperform or underperform in it compared to my average performance.
And same for others, I destroy mauses and farm them so easily that I bash them easier than the average opponent, way easier, hence it appears underperforming.

When there is one on my team, it is more useless and less useful than any other tank a random could play so that’s the same it’s underperforming in that way

[distant river]

Judging a tank by only looking at yourself is an awful way of looking at things. For instance I played the T-44 from 75% crew and with the 122 for fun and I managed to hold 71% WR in it over 100 games all solo. That doesn't mean it's a fantastic tank and everyone should use the 122, because it's trash. I just happened to be able to use the tank well and it suited my playstyle.

Human perception and memory is absolutely atrocious at being accurate, there's many studies in psychology about even tiny changes completely altering perceptions let alone when someone with a preconceived idea about a tank sees it in small numbers of battles. If you are going to analyse things properly then the first thing to learn is to start with a blank slate and keep anything relating to memory and perception out of it.

[remote oriole]

That’s not true, averaging many human judgements provides exceptionally accurate descriptions. Leaving out opinions is depriving yourself of a valuable source of information

[unique scaffold]

Whatever I'm here for progetto...
Also why do ppl keep saying e50m is stronger right now ? It's literally in it's worst state ever (it's fair but was very strong before). It had bettrr DPM, 350 alpha, and, most importantly, freaking leopard accuracy which was weird.

Don't get me wrong it is balanced it just was stronger before

[distant river]

Large sample opinions are useful as an overview and a vague idea but for anything slightly accurate it's not really good enough. One example is when WG added the two shot Foch, the community voted overwhelmingly in favour, then backlashed after it was added until it was nerfed. The overall opinion was a bad way to do things.

[unique scaffold]

Well the armor changes to e50m were supposed to compensate for the pbr only, not make it any stronger. So even on that aspect I don’t feel that it’s stronger. Hatch is also easier to hit than before to me. Maybe the actual thickness has slightly improved on the front of the turret tho but idk because the turret is also less angled. Overall I believe armor is as good as before. So it only got nerfed. And the nerf was indeed quite substantial, I could hit as accurately as old t62 and Leo, with 350 alpha, defo a nerf

[remote oriole]

That‘s a really bad example because the community wanted a two-shot autoloader but didn‘t get to specify the characteristics, which were the focus of the backlash, so the vote for it and the backlash are unrelated

[stuck acorn]

It is not balanced by any means. Yeah armour is fine, it has tons of HP, but that's all i guess. Eveything else about that tank is trash.

It's the 2nd least played T10 heavy tech tree tank and 2nd/3rd least played tech tree tank in the entire T10. (i don't remember if WZ TD was played more or less) It also has lowest amount of AVG damage per battle out of all tech tree T10 tanks. It may have quite high WR, but that's just because it's an HP bag.

I get that this tank could be overperforming with better gun, but it doesn't change the fact that in current state it's extremely infuriating and unpleasant to play. Tanks that are meant only to eat shots and not do anything themselves are pointless from random battle perspecitive. That's why maushen and maus are so bad. They have literally no use in randoms. And after E100 and VK 72 buffs it lost it's purpose even in tournaments. I guess it's time to rebalance that huge chunk of garbage.

First of all remove some HP, preferably around 100-150. Then revert this unnecesary accuracy nerf it got in 8.2 and ahorten a reload by around a second/buff alpha to 500 like they did it in WoT PC and keep current reload. Low pen is fine as this tank was never meant to pen everything, but combination of low DPM, low accuaracy and low penetration makes it the worst gun at entire Tier.

If you think it's too much you can do some other changes alongside of that, but general idea is simple. Give it some gun buffs so it can actually compete on it's own, while keeping armour profile without/with minor changes so it's still an unique tank.

[distant river]

Best example blitz-eelated that I can think of because WG tends to ignore what players want because players have no clue what they want themselves in general. When looking at specific things in detail there's way too much difference in human perception to make it accurate even over samples, there's a really interesting psychology study below that shows just how much people's judgement can be affected by something tiny. (Especially interesting for anyone interested in law and policing btw) https://www.simplypsychology.org/loftus-palmer.html

@stuck acorn I'm so confused by what you want. You call the maus bad, but you already know that it has higher than expected WR which contradicts that...? Not every tank has to play the same way, and the maus should not be shoehorned into a different playstyle just because you dislike it's playstyle. It's unique, it's interesting to play, and it's balanced. There's no need to give it stupid buffs, especially not to the gun. You've literally described all the reasons that it's a good tank to have how it is, then somehow got to the conclusion that it's trash and needs changing.

Not every tank needs to be able to compete on it's own. It's a team game 🤦‍♀️

[leaden flare]

wouldnt say maus is interesting to play at all

its boring as hell as its slow with armor that doesnt really work against t10 prammo even if angled while there is tanks that do everything maus does but better
Is-4 almost has as much hp has an almost invincible turret even against prammo
its faster
has a much better gun
similar or better dpm
has amazing angles
the only thing it doesnt have is as much gd

• Maus is just one of those tanks where people if they cant pen shoot he at the turret and set u on fire which works pretty well

if it were such a fun tank people would actually play it

[remote oriole]

But that‘s about memory distortion and not opinion making/ judgement

Firstly it‘s only a tendency so it‘s not like you can 100% expect people to be influenced by the speech (which I suspect clusters with the memory and thus alters it). It‘s more classic manipulation

And secondly that in no way invalidates people‘s personal opinions or makes non-statistical or ‚non-scientific‘ (we are rather pseudo-scientific in this channel anyways) worthless.

[stuck acorn]

it's unique, but it's not interesting to play and it's not balanced. It's situation is similar to one of the 183. The tank is really bad, but it can't be buffed, because even a slight buff could make it overperform. That's why you need to take away something before buffing it so the risk is removed. Pretty simple right?

Maus in current state is just obsolete. There are tanks that can eat damage nearly as good or even as good as it while not having a huge disadvantage called useless gun and in many cases are also faster than it

[unique scaffold]

If you look above at the screenshots sent earlier you’ll see if angled correctly it does work vs tier ten prammo, even at high level pen if you sidescrape and wiggle there’s still a chance of blocking, tbh I’m surprised at how solid it actually is, I guess it seems pathetic in battle cause no one knows how to angle correctly

[remote oriole]

Yeah, Maus is actually excellent at bouncing. Especially if you have some hard cover to work with. Only really good players know to shoot the turret front with prammo no matter what, while the rest relies on their intuition and fails at the turret side.

But even if they pen you, your pure mass and hp alone are enough to get a strong push rolling that only high alpha high pen guns can really hope to contain effectively

[winged barn]

"I don't like to play the tank so it isn't interesting to play"

Ok.

Maus simp here.

Using the maus well takes skill and practice. If you just make yourself invincible, nobody will shoot at you and you are failing at your job. You have to be capable of baiting shots, while not just throwing away all of your hp.

How many other tanks do that? None. If you don't like it, don't play it. Don't ruin it for the people that actually like it.
If you want the gun, go play an e100.

You don't play an is4 to bait shots.
You play an is4 to brute force through whatever is infront of you.
Is4 is hulldown+press 2=win
Now that is boring

Maus you have to actually pay attention to the enemies around you and get them to focus you.

No othertank do you want to be the focus of the reds

[unique scaffold]

Well yeah but wiggling and sidescraping, also you didn’t look at the first screenshot? The second was vs 370mm+ HEAT pen, but it’s very solid vs 330mm HEAT pen, I just said it has a chance to block vs high HEAT pen although its weak. Your second point doesn’t work btw, apparently the Maus has a high WR, therefore in pub matches with a bunch of 40/50%ers it works well apparently. (Why delete the message?)

[leaden flare]

never wanted to say is 4 is interesting to play i hated it when i had to play it

ive written the s word and then i had to delete the message because i wasnt able to edit it anymore as it contained things that were unwanted by the community

idk never gotten anything like that but i guess its a new filter

[distant river]

Opinion is based off memory, especially in the case I was talking about. If the memory is inaccurate, the opinion can't be. It makes people's opinions something you cannot base analysis from, unless it's literally only in the context of opinions, which makes it very worthless.

@stuck acorn You are still calling it bad but ignoring the stats that say it's not bad?? And now you are going from saying it's unique to saying that others can do its job...
And did you really go for HE spam as an argument lol
IS4 is a very different playstyle so comparisons are useless. As you've said, the maus performs fine sacrificing individual damage for wins.

[remote oriole]

Firstly, you cannot simply assume that someone distorted their memory. Secondly, memory is as much based on the opinion as the other way round - I could argue that due to their opinion what smashing is they change their memory - or it is indirectly distorted through this opinion. Essentially you have dependency both ways.

That also shows that memory does not serve to remember events precisely - it condenses it to the relevant minimum and clusters it with other memories based on how similar they are. That‘s because it is a decision making tool and why experience within a valid environment makes statements more reliable.

The way you are arguing is that something inaccurate cannot produce something accurate. Logically that is false (and I mean mathematical logic here). And more to the point, the memory is not completely false, it is distorted. Meaning it is slightly off a perfectly accurate description, but it is still an accurate enough description. Completely disregarding it for slight inaccuracies is foolish, honestly. Especially if you haven‘t shown it to contain inaccuracies in the first place!

And lastly, human opinion does not only matter when regarding human opinion. As you might have noticed, humans are the target group and the developers of this game. Human judgement dictates how they play tanks. Human opinion dictates which tanks they play. Human perception dictates if they have fun. A tank ‚statistically being good‘ is about as meaningful as a wave in the ocean.

On top of that I want to point out that there is no such thing as perfect accuracy. Even the scientific method is based on peer-reviews which is literally having multiple experts (humans) confirm it, and some things you simply cannot ‚objectively‘ test. An opinion, considering the experience and knowledge associated with it, is a solid place to start when looking for ‚truth‘. And in the end, as experience has shown, the ‚truth‘ is often somewhere in the middle in the field of opinions

[distant river]

Something inaccurate can only produce something accurate through luck, it's possible to get an accurate result but it's also possible for you to win the lottery every week. A different question producing a 33% change in this example is a gigantic change, that's not a slight inaccuracy. Let alone when someone has preconceived ideas as well as over a much much larger period of time.

Human opinion in the #tank-balance-discussion is pretty much irrelevant. We aren't talking about the target group at all, we are talk about the target state of the game, which is balance.

There is no such thing as perfect accuracy, but there's certainly many many things better than looking at biased opinions such as stats. An opinion is a rough place to start, but nowhere near solid. It gives you something to test and prove right or wrong, not something to actually think about.

[remote oriole]

33% doesn‘t really matter, you need to run a statistical test to see if it‘s statistically significant or not.

And even if it does, personal biases even out over larger sample size so that concern is easy to avoid.

Human opinion should not be irrelevant here. In fact this is the place to exchange human opinions - discussion. And the state of the game must consider the target group to be a relevant assessment

And how do you ‚test‘ an opinion (which you usually can‘t here anyways) without thinking about it?

On another note, in my opinion you make a seriously blatant and easily avoidable mistake by disregarding opinions per se on the (according to me) misconception that human perception is inherently flawed and unreliable. There is no need to accept all opinions as truth, but equally there is no need to disregard opinions in general, especially on the basis that they are wrong. Nobody arrives at an opinion by random chance, and even if you consider the opinion misled by influences that are, according to you, not part of the matter at hand, opinions still give you a valuable insight in possible effects of the matter at hand and other perspectives of the issue at hand.

It is impossible to measure all the variables needed to accurately predict the performance of a tank with randomly chose stats, which is why having the tank go live is the only reliable way to see how it actually performs, and no statistic will tell you how much people enjoy it so human opinions are most of the time what we are left with here

[slender latch]

I don't think Maus exist to perform same or above the VK90, it's more like just a cannon fodder especially to experienced players to farm damage which I am grateful for while playing TDs like Hori

[winged barn]

Lol

Tds are the real cannon fodder

[dry rivet]

I don’t own T57, but I do see and like to bully one. Usually American tanks have either a strong turret and weak hull or vice versa, weaker turret but stronger hull. T57 used to have an impenetrable hull. Now, I can frontally challenge a T57 with relative ease. It has a thin turret and paper hull. I’m not sure what this balance change was intended for.

[wind flower]

language

[scenic zodiac]

Mutsu jutsu time ))

[nimble zodiac]

Well, T57’s gun is the main selling point of the tank. The HP helps it pull off trades with the autoloader when it can isolate a target

[scarlet fjord]

because it was too good?
right now 57 is still ridiculous

[willow hawk]

Good gun, meh turret, horrible reverse speed, decent forward speed, garbage frontal armor.

It went from being a frontline tank to a 2nd line heavy, and when I play it, I cannot be caught in the open during reload.

There used to be a strip of thick armor on the rim of the boat shaped hull where it was an auto-ricochet zone, pre-PBR design. Then it went to having insane hull armor, bright red like a cherry, then now, it’s like a punch-able beer belly with no armor.

Personally I loved the T57 for the gun, and the beer belly doesn’t really affect how I play it. It’s just annoying now to be caught dead in the open. Can’t brawl.

[scarlet fjord]

maybe for the majority of the players its a problem
because idk if WG want to take into account the average joe when balancing a tank
personally the tank is fine
but if the average player struggles without reverse speed and poor armor profile maybe buff the reverse speed but then u get the problem of the tank being a little too good for a good player
so thats kind of the problem here|
most people dont take into account the reverse speed of a tank yet its a crucial component in my opinion when it comes to armorless and heavily armored vehicles equally valuable yet for 2 different reasons
armored tanks need the reverse speed to make its already very difficult armor profile even harder to pen due to less time for people to aim in on the weakspot
and for the armorless tanks they need it for minimum exposure time

[sleek grove]

a bad player will do bad in any tank.
an average player will do average in most tanks and will be a little more effective in more powerful tanks.
and a great player will do great in any tank in any situation.

you cant balance a tank according to a single class of players, u got to have some data coming from all those classes, why wg balances a tank according to 55%-65% wr players.

also maybe thats why supertesters range from white wr to blue-purple wr.

@leaden flarei find the clip boost really funny especially when i peak while unspotted and put 1200dmg or more in 3.5s

[leaden flare]

Well that means I'm outside of the balancing metric
Perfect 😂
T57 is fine imo just the clip boost was once again unnecessary

[lean gate]

Day 55 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[unique scaffold]

Maus is a sorry piñata.
I won’t wrote any other essay but I can’t stand the guys that won’t admit it. It just needs a huge buff, it’s just a joke right now.

-yes on a picture the armor seems red but that’s not considering how slow it is, turn two meters right and oooo you can pen
-the gun is sook bad, if it’s job is not to « make damage » but to « take focus », then it should be absolutely insane in terms of protection which it isn’t;

• my opinion remains, buff the frontal turret armor by 16 mm and the hp by 150 and maybe it will be decent. You just can’t keep a 2200 dpm damage piñata that is this big bag of tank destroyer food and call it fair because it looks nice and the m48’s poor apcr can’t penetrate it when absolutely over angled in an impossible position.

In practice, it just CANT « take focus ». Why ? Because it can’t bounce more than one tank at a time. In practice, you have to hide with it, sidescrape against every tank, just be the useless underdog that everyone will bash. It just seems hugely, hugely power crept

[main tulip]

It bounces more than one other tank better than anything else though?

[slender latch]

tank is powercrept but WG can't balance all tanks either wait for them to buff it or nerf other HTs for now just enjoy it being a bullet bag for high damage games

[unique scaffold]

Honestly I rather hope for pbr’s. They release them so freaking slowly yet one day it will have to be mauses turn. Then maybe they can make the turrets angle more steep or use the occasion of the pbr to slightly buff that armor.

[tribal dragon]

That was a long argument

[willow hawk]

Majority of the times when a Maus gets taken out quickly is because his weak spots are exposed. As @distant river demonstrated in the Inspector App, it can be near invincible when positioned right.

I infer the reason why you think it sucks is because of two scenarios:

1. incorrect positioning = focused and near instant death
2. near invincibility = brighter players ignore Maus completely to focus on other targets

Given these scenarios, the reason why one may see that the Maus “sucks” is because of scenario 1, or the combination of the two, because opponents know how impactful the Maus can be when encountered. That’s why many opponents will take the chance to take it out as quickly as possible.

Maus is extremely good with side scraping and brawling. It’s like your SWAT officer with a large riot shield with a pistol. Not entirely impregnable, but can get the job done, even with a smaller weapon. Maus’s job is to function as a shock unit, absorb the incoming fire for as long as possible. It’s not a tank designed to carry the team through damage infliction. It’s to take it.

[orchid grove]

Maus is totally useless right now. The somewhat recent nerf made the thing totally unplayable, especially the accuracy nerf.

@willow hawk Maus needs the ability to deal damage. His only use in pubs is for pushing. He lacks the turret armor needed to hold, and the pen and accuracy simply don’t allow him to brawl defensively. Maus’ one job is to push. If they focus the Maus, great, that creates an opening for squishy DPM tanks and clippers to exploit. If they ignore the Maus, he needs to be able to put on the pressure

[unique scaffold]

He.didn’t.Demonstrate.a.damn.thing
He showed an angle at which a MEDIUM tank couldn’t penetrate. A medium should never penetrate frontally a Maus turret, just as it cannot penetrate an E100 turret when it is facing straight without any angling. That’s how it should be, god damn.E100 should be impervious to 310 on the turret without angling and it is. Maus should be hard to it with 310 on the front of the turret. I don’t see why with a gun that worse Maus wouldn’t manage it. The real problem is m48 should not have 300 heat at all, it should be at 280 at max. All meds should get a max aux- d at 280. There’s no point in that. But as they don’t, and as they do have that op gold shell while still having dpm, speed And accuracy, Maus should have an armor useful enough to reliably stop it.

Maus is nowhere near a point where it could take the incoming fire. Yes in your dreams the Maus (which btw you don’t play according to your answer) as the impenetrable wall it should be (and we agree on that one let it be clear) that it is. The Maus is bad at soaking damage. Td’s destroy you. You’re lessarmored and protected than is 4 and type 71 and even t110E5 considering your speed. Armor is also speed, speed allows wiggling which make armor useful.

[orchid grove]

Honestly, I would argue that opinion shouldn’t be irrelevant because opinion is the singular end goal of balance.

We, as players do not directly experience the overall balance stats on WG’s spreadsheets. We only feel something is balanced if we have the opinion that it’s balanced.

Really, it comes down to “if people think it’s balanced, does it really matter if statistically, it isn’t balanced?”

[unique scaffold]

He did demonstrate something, which is that you’re wrong, you said the turret isn’t capable of bouncing medium APCR (meds don’t have APCR as prammo in tier ten so let’s just say HEAT), that was clearly proven wrong. Now you say that the Maus should never bounce medium prammo, that the idea is ridiculous. That’s a complete turn around. 300 HEAT is balanced, in a heavy meta do you really want to nerf all meds pen? Buffing the Maus might be reasonable, nerfing other heavies might be reasonable, but nerfing meds pen is just ludicrous right now, I don’t think you thought through what you were saying. Also the screenshot was with ~330 HEAT, vs 300 the Maus would be even stronger

[lunar niche]

Perfect angle only applies if Maus is angling against a single tank. And even then, 374 HEAT pen heavies exists and no amount of angling is gonna help with that.

And also, angle the hull and get penned through the tracks because the armour behind track is only 80mm thick. That will stop your push. Don't angle, get penned through turret cheeks and UFP by 374mm HEAT, angle the tank and get penned through the tracks by AP/APCR.

Gun is bad, it has worse gun handling than VK72 and E100. If its not meant to do damage then just remove the gun lol.

[willow hawk]

I disagree with your post, kindly, but I do understand your frustration. Perhaps Positive is right, it may need a gun handling and pen buff, but armorwise, I think it’s decent, not abysmal

[scarlet fjord]

The real problem is the fact that it's nuke meta
The maus is balanced its just in this meta u can't just "take focus" u are neither awarded by it aside from win rate (ur wn8 and dmg gets destroyed) because ur too slow to keep up with the 1 minute games nowadays
The tank can also waste time while a nuke on the enemy team can flank and tear apart 2 of ur team mates in a minute so to speak in the past this wasn't possible and buffing the maus will be weird because it's playstyle isn't suitable so u would have to overbuff which is not smart because it fulfills its role the problem is that role is not needed as much as in the past

[unique scaffold]

He said it all. I say gun should be bad, but turret should just be stronger. The front should gain armor so as to prevent more than one enemy at once which is your primary role

[unique scaffold]

Also a 480 alpha gun like the 54 would be more fitting.

Gun handling is ok but either better dpm either better alpha idk

Been playing it non stop for days and it’s depressing

[lunar niche]

Turret cheeks are flat somewhat, its always gonna get penned if you do not angle unless the turret cheeks are ridiculously thick like 400mm which is not gonna happen.

250mm is enough to have a chance to bounce those high pen HEAT from heavies as the sides are also thick at 210mm and slightly angled.

My gripe is with the 80mm armour behind tracks which gets exposed when angling the hull.

And the gun, i am okay with bad pen and dpm but the gun handling could at least have been better.

[orchid grove]

Maus armor is fine. It’s not meant to be an invincible brick, impervious to all fire. Some shots will pen, and some shots won’t. But with a couple bounces, it will take the enemy a very long time to kill.

Maus mostly needs at the minimum, for the accuracy nerf to be undone. With such low pen and DPM, having worse accuracy than a jgpz is just completely unacceptable. To fit the role of the “breakthrough” tank. Maus needs significantly better gun handling so that it can shoot on the move better

[main tulip]

give AMX CDC a better gun, maybe 250 alpha and better gun handling

[dry rivet]

Again, I don’t own one, so I wouldn’t know the experience. I’m just saying how it is going against one.

[nimble zodiac]

Then that’s an open field for subjective claims, especially for good/bad players, because they will either think the tank is busted to fight against or is barely something that can fight

[scarlet fjord]

i think people who dont have it still have the right to give an opinion on the tank
the problem with this generally speaking is
you as a person who doesn't have it cant experience the little "quality of life" stats about the tank which make it slightly more impressive or disappointing than it actually is
like the reverse speed
or pre armor change 50B trick of lifting and wiggling the turret giving u extra bounces (isnt a statistic but in practical terms makes the tank quite a bit more competitive)
invisible stats like waffle having that gun depression in reverse and how u could use it on hills in reverse for gun depression and also for backing down the hill much faster cuz u are faster forward etc etc
people often forget this fact

[ember thunder]

for me just buff the armour behind tracks to atleast over 120mm . thats all i want

[dry rivet]

In my opinion it’s easier to challenge today’s T57, don’t you?

[nimble zodiac]

The best that shows is that T57 was nerfed overall, but that doesn't quite land an argument that it's unbalanced (UP), unless your considering the last iteration of T57 perfectly balanced

[dry rivet]

Bit confused here. I never said anything about the T57 being better in any way. Others may think that, but I say it’s easier to challenge, hinting that it’s not as strong as before

I don’t see why we are arguing

What you said makes no sense to me. Without experience, how can you form an opinion about a tank? Whether being in one or countering one?

Ok, but I never said I was dead right about anything. I never declared what I said as a fact. And I sought no argument. I just had an opinion. No one asked you to legitimize anyone’s posts here either.

[nimble zodiac]

I specified underpowered for a reason

I'm arguing that personal experience has a relatively lacking argument for a tank's performance, unless it's obviously shared across most players, then it could be agreeable

You're entitled to an opinion with experience, but it serves no valid argument

[nimble zodiac]

I apologize for assuming you were going to discuss the balance of a tank 🤷‍♂️

Here, I'll take the L and say that I'm tired and was 70% focused on a drafting assignment

[unique scaffold]

How can you say anything about the t57 that is nothing else than a super meta tank right now , and discard the Maus ?

How can one not suffer by letting the Maus in the dark hole of under powering it is in right now, and ask for a buff on one of the strongest heavies, let alone, the strongest meta auto loaders ?

@distant river if you called the Maus, I repeat the garbage Maus, « perfectly fine », then I hope by all angels you would consider t57 atrociously op.

That’s the problem is tank balance discussion. My fav tank is the jageroo, I don’t care about the Maus more than any other tank; but some of you just want your fav tank to be buffed without any viable reason for it. I hate Maus. I love bullying it which is so easy, I would love it to be more played (i see it rarer than 268/4 because it is so bad), but I would never play it normally and I started spamming it only for the sake of balance.

It is a useless crap piñata that gets focused, not to « take focus » and to bounce the shells, but to die very shortly as soon as hp in exhausted because everyone penetrates, either with gold shells or ap (yes, medium tanks too, even frontally, and that’s normal according to @distant river)

I think we are doing something evil by not all praying for wg to change the tank; please buff the gun, buff the frontal turret armor, do something, because it is so far behind and some guys have gotten so accustomed to it that they cannot imagine a fair Maus.

It was a symbol, heck. Now it is a piñata for the tier 9 ho ri noob spamming apcr and his 42% wr platoon mate in vickers lite running around you

[leaden flare]

T57 isn't anywhere near op
2,5s intraclip is fine
DPM is fine
Armor is basically useless except for the random unlucky hit

There is nothing op about it it can basically farm a decent amount of dmg but that's about it

It's only op against people that seem to have no clue about positioning themselves properly

[unique scaffold]

Did I claim it was op ?
Only to people that seem to have no clue about reading

It’s right in the meta, that was my point, and denying this is basically the worst lie of your life. You can hardly do better in any other meta tank. It’s the auto loader meta since 9.1. Tvp, fv4005, t57 heavy, and you must be a terrible noob to call it « not anywhere near op », or again to have problem with the English langage, because that would imply it is average or slightly below average, while, as a matter of fact, it is very, very good, and definitely somewhere near op.

I could also say something like
« type 71 isn’t anywhere near op 
Speed equipment is fine
Armor is fine
Gun is basically quite bad »

And you forgot the unjustified shell intraclip equipment. Also you get a lot of bounces with that turret in hulldown idk where you’re playing but in 5k + ratings I defo get some bounces, especially from horrible gun tanks like Maus or type 71 or stuff like that.

Lastly, you completely and utterly miss the point my boy. The comment wasn’t calling t57 op but saying that we shouldn’t be discussing a meta tank when it is factually meta while some tanks are just drowning at the bottom.

Truth is if t57 was as bad as Maus it would have just as much players. No one is asking for a Maus and 263 buff here, because no one is playing them. I am not even a « big » player nor a unicum and yet I own every tier X (which is easy since amplificztors) and play them all, I can feel by reading you that most of you play 10 meta tanks and don’t touch anything else. If you want to speak balance, then try everything, have some sense of the meta, of the weekly players for every tank, of high ratings where you really see what are the good tanks. T57 is just as dope in 5k+ ratings as in random battles. It’s great.

[leaden flare]

If it's meta where is it in tournaments ?
It's not even spammed in randoms either or I'm not noticing it which would be a reason for me to not regard it as too good

The things you call me in that post are incredibly funny to me I got fairly decent sense of the game and play a decent amount of t10s that aren't exactly meta even tho I don't switch tanks to often because switching playstyles hinders performance in my case
I'm also far from a noob with 66% career wr and 20k+ battles

And yes my point is still that imo it's not anywhere near op as it has weaknesses that make it easy to outplay and idk how you can say you get decent bounces on the turret when it's basically paper so consider urself lucky, the goal in t57 is not to get shot at anyway

Also I don't see where anyone really asked for a t57 buff
I also argued in favour of a Maus buff or rather a rebalance

[slender latch]

Why even wait for a Maus buff when u could get a VK90 just for 20k

[distant river]

@remote oriole #tank-balance-discussion message
Personal biases don't even out because it's not a random thing. Majority opinion in the past is that women are only good as housewives, does that make it correct and useful to judge women on or is it just a product of factors influencing people's biases? It's changed over time, so does that mean women have changed over time? Discussion of statistics and data is hugely more useful than any discussion of opinion because that tends to be "I think this, you think that, these are our opinions job done". Human perception has been tested to be flawed and unreliable many many times, how often do you have to tell people no mm isn't rigged because you think you lose too much? People arrive at opinions through such huge amount of judgements which are often not accurate. You can predict the performance of tanks pretty accurately without having them live in server, and even after that you look at the performance stats. If you want to know how enjoyable they are then you can also judge that easily too. There's characteristics that people get more enjoyment from (mobility, alpha and good performance overall in general). This makes it relatively simple to predict opinions off stats, but to predict stats off opinions is a disaster, there's too many variables. Stats are and should be the root of any analysis, opinions can be added on at the end of necessary but even then it should be based off information available.

@unique scaffold #tank-balance-discussion message
You still don't need to bounce every single shot. You place yourself at the front and behind cover and you will bounce a very large amount. You have brilliant protection, it seems like you don't appreciate it because of bad situations you have been in. Learn the angles and the positions and you'll find yourself doing a lot better.

[unique rock]

This channel is the war of wall of texts.

[distant river]

@orchid grove #tank-balance-discussion message
Opinions like that are very easily swayed, like when the v4 came out and everyone thought it was completely and totally broken because they focused on one thing. Now that they aren't thinking about it specifically and it's not at the front of their mind, there's next to no complaints. If you ask someone then they will probably have the opinion it's unbalanced, but that's just from the conditioning it's not from what they see and experience. If people could form opinions purely from what they experience without bias then opinions would be brilliant (the opinions would then become as useful as stats), but it's exceptionally rare for that to happen especially without it being built from a statistical place. If you could separate people's unconscious opinions that might be useful as well but to collect any good data you need some sort of active recall otherwise you are simply looking at gaps in recall which is iffy from the start and may just be because of bad stimulation of recall. How can you tell if people are not complaining about a tank because they haven't had a bad experience in it recently, or because they actually don't have anything to complain about it? If you worked incredibly hard to actually sort out opinions properly you'd end up with something as useful as stats so it would be a bit of a waste of time.

[unique scaffold]

Because I want balance not pay to play. Also I have the vk90 and now I want buffed Maus because I suffer seeing it sooo bad and so much worse than everything else while some beginners that love to farm it when it’s in the opposite team really want it to stay in that dark place.

[quick lichen]

This is still going on?

[remote oriole]

Your example with women is both not appropriate for this channel and not relevant, as it revolves around a moral issue which is literally nothing short of human [insert your favoured description]. So saying that human opinion is flawed because the current human opinion is different is pretty pointless as you validate the correctness of the opinion with another opinion.

That opinions change is not really cause for concern either, in fact it‘s a good thing. Whether it‘s changed knowledge, a changed environment or a changed perspective, opinions remain valid for those who have them and more importantly, in the environment in which they are uttered - simply because they are a product of said environment.

Also, biases tend to be random. If they aren‘t you have a systemic bias which will cause a bias in your statistics anyways, so you will have to learn to live with that. The only systemic bias that would not also affect your statistics is revolving around the humans themselves, which in this case would be your observation method. While such biases exist, as you mentioned, and while they should be considered, they do not make human opinion as a gauge invalid. In the end, all methods carry some systemic biases in them and with humans you at least get such a large variation in perspectives, character and perception that you have a better chance of it (the systemic bias of a human) averaging out over large numbers, although there are some characteristics key to human that you won=t get rid of like that.

Also, no, you cannot accurately predict the performance of a tank just by stats. At least I have never seen anyone do it here, and I myself failed a good amount of times at it. The best you can do is a rough strength estimate and that‘s about it. Later you can pretend like you knew (memory distortion, yes I will randomly accuse you of that because yolo) but if you are honest to yourself there are too many variables that you do not know (and cannot know)

[unique scaffold]

I want it to be clear to everyone that the Maus deserves 3k hp, and a cheek armor buff of at least 9 mm.
It is the condition to having both the worst mobility and gun of tier X. You need the best armor. Not a poor prammo sponge far behind type 71, is 4, e100, vk 90, in terms of armor.

Well hang on, aside from the debate on opinion, if you want to go by personal experience not stats then that also says the Maus is good. I do not own the Maus myself but as far as I can tell it will block massive amounts in pub matches (from friends who own it and replays etc.). Although personal opinion and experience may be necessary to give pure stars perspective as far as I can see both these ways of checking if a tank is balanced seem to point to the Maus being balanced. @unique scaffold you keep saying stuff that clearly isn’t true, the Maus according to stats is definitely not a prammo sponge for the vk 90, it has 320 apcr which is pretty bad prammo pen for a heavy (balanced by great AP pen). The E 100 will still have trouble, and although I can’t remember all the prammo numbers for the other tanks I’m pretty sure they will all struggle, statistically speaking. If you want to say that it performs horrible in matches that’s a different matter, and I’m pretty sure the other day you effectively said the opposite, that it does well in pubs and bad in ratings.

[quick lichen]

Haven’t you said that already?

This is like day 3

I also completely disagree that the maus needs any buff

If the vk 72 and 90 were to trade guns you might have a case

[distant river]

The example is pretty relevant when you ignore the morals and just look at it as an expression of opinion. If you take opinions to be useful, when the majority opinions changes despite nothing actually changing about the focus of the opinion, you have an issue. If you acknowledge that opinions aren't good to look at, you have no issue. Opinions create their own environment and perspectives which makes them changeable and not useful to look at. Instead of being anywhere near accurate you get a hugely changeable thing which instead reflects more of the people that hold the opinion rather than the focus of the opinion.

Small low level biases can be thought of as random but the large important biases are not random in the slightest. If a tank doesn't fit your playstyle then will you think it's a good tank (unless you look at stats)? If you don't have the skill to play a tank, will you think it's good? If people tell you repeatedly that it's good, will you have your opinion influenced? All of these are huge overarching biases that have gigantic and easily observable impacts on people. There are too many biases to make it useful to consider all of them to get something that's still only on par with stats, so they are invalid compared to the stats unless you out that amount of effort in.

People tend to not label their predictions with numbers because getting things accurate to 1% isn't easy with the large amount of variables and the most natural way to think of performance isn't through statistics it's through comparisons. If you wanted you could then work out the numbers to display something that you'd interpret as being accurate but that's not hugely useful as a prediction.

[quick lichen]

The is4 is a shell of its former self. The type got nerfed so it’s strong but not broken. E100 is another that’s just strong. Vk90 is also strong but given it’s a collector, doesn’t exist in any real quantity to be a huge deal

[unique scaffold]

Your opinion is disastrous because you’re an immobilist. You will argue terribly and call half of the tanks op to justify having Maus so bad. No. Most tanks are balanced since 9.1. If you’re a mod you should know that statement by wg.

Op tanks would be type 71
Too strong would be tvp, 907, t57.

Maus should be as strong as the rest of the heavy meta. It is like twice weaker than the worst tanks there, like the t110e5 which is a terrible terrible tank with a supremely nerfed armor

Always ignoring amount of players too. It’s boring, it’s not enjoyable. No one plays that. I play it since days hundreds of battles and never see another one, and even before when I wasn’t especially looking for it, it’s probably the rarest tech tree tank. I see obj 263, fv4202, m48 Patton, so much more.

That is because it’s bad

[quick lichen]

It’s literally fine

[remote oriole]

Why do I have an issue if the topic we look at is literally down to opinion, i.e. morals?

Also, it becomes random with the mass of players. Different players have different playstyles and thus the bias of the playstyle is averaged out. Especially noteworthy: the playstyle is one of the main influences on how a tank performs and thus the average playstyle is the most prominent bias in any performance statistic. It‘s good that it‘s also represented in opinion, as they would fail to display reality otherwise

[slender latch]

Didn't expect AMX mle. 54 to be on top 5 lol

[unique scaffold]

Well, this is #tank-balance-discussion not #tank-enjoyability-discussion, all the arguments on here were mostly about it being balanced/not balanced, and we’ve just seen it is balanced indeed according to WR and according to its own stats, and there’s also usually one or two in top tourneys. Saying it’s boring is kind of beside the point, and usually if a tank is boring it means it’s easy/braindead to play, not underpowered by a lot.
@quick lichen I’m guessing that’s 30 day?
@unique scaffold Why, oh why, are you still insisting it can’t take on med apcr (read HEAT) frontally? It clearly can, even with CS and without EA. I do not understand why that is so hard to admit.
@distant river its career? I believe droodles just posted a video which said the IS 7 was highest performing (and it’s not highest for 30 day) would be pretty funny if he’s wrong 🤯.
@unique scaffold trash on balance? We’ve just seen that it’s WR is above plenty of other tanks.

[quick lichen]

I believe so

[unique scaffold]

That’s why it’s not pertinent to show this screens. Amount of players, what kind of players use the tank, changes everything. Only old nostalgic good players in small amounts play the Maus, not the average beginner who’s rather gonna switch to e100 as soon as he realises how disappointing mauses gun is (first visit of he tech tree).

I just don’t see how you consider normal that Maus can not take focus frontally and can not undergo apcr frontally even by mediums with ces !

@unique scaffold It’s trash on balance AND enjoyability which is rare… also each time I mention a tank supposed to be weaker on the protection that is actually stronger than the Maus on protection you say it’s overpowered, well then guys if you don’t want to buff Maus nerf the apcr pen for the entire tier and nerf every slightly strong heavy (which means everything except is 7 t110e5 and kran) + (obj 260 too sorry)

[quick lichen]

That case is an assumption that no one grinds any of the other tanks and fails their way through them as well😂

[distant river]

Because taking opinions to be useful gives you a contradiction highlighted by the example. If you get a contradiction from sound reasoning based off assumptions, your assumptions are wrong and the only assumption we made was that opinions are vaguely accurate to reality.

Most players prefer to play heavies and TDs because they find them easy to play, so that's entirely not random from the very start. It doesn't mean they perform better in them as shown in stats when we had a fairly balanced meta, heavies were still overplayed. The bias is there affecting opinion, but not affecting the stats.

@quick lichen Blitzstars main stats page is all career not 30day which makes it not particularly useful

[remote oriole]

This is no contradiction at all, because the very issue at hand is an opinion. This is a problem of self-reference, not opinions, and is a problem for logic at large

Also, the bias is obviously affecting stats as you will see in player numbers and player distribution, if that bias even exists. Due to the larger or unusually large proportion of heavies and tds in the game, again under the assumption that the bias exist, it is obvious that the performance of any given tank is the performance in a heavy and td heavy game. I mean, you will see all human biases in the statistics because this is a game played by humans…

[slender latch]

Why is this chart different from the other one isn't it also for Average WR?

[remote oriole]

The other one is relative winrate

[willow hawk]

Saying the Type 71 is strong but not broken is a ballsy claim, although I agree with that, I dare not say that myself. Don’t wanna be burned by the angry mob with torches and pitchforks here. And the balance discussion saints…

[quick lichen]

Lol, that made my day so far. I feel like the Kran, 60tp and is4 (in a sense) have all gone through this process. There was absolutely a time where they were all blatantly broken and way too good, but sure enough they’ve been pulled back a bit and they’re strong, maybe some on the edge of op but more in line now

I would also say that we as players usually look at things under a microscope and only at our personal experience more than not so usually opinions are emotionally based

There’s a few tanks that I’ve played against where I also seem to struggle with accuracy or pen etc and hate playing against, but when I play them I get penned no problem lol

It’s why I think people complaining about the minotauro have to wait until they play it before they really can judge it and even then, it’ll go through presumably changes before release

[nimble zodiac]

I firmly believe that the T-150 should have 0.347334 dispersion with a 2.167 aiming time so I can hit more of my shots while I camp at the back of the map against the T37 going full speed more than 50% of the time 🤓

@willow hawk So I’m supposed to include an image of him in order to make that impression stick? 💀

[distant river]

Why is the issue an opinion? It's a constant with a changing opinion on the constant, it's not self reference it's something that contradicts what you are saying.

Heavies showing up in games more is literally the game it's not bias, people having opinions that don't accurately reflect the game is bias.

[willow hawk]

Say that in a nerdy Bugs Bunny voice. It’ll sound more amusing 🐰

[scarlet fjord]

not simple to play but deadly in many ways

[quick lichen]

It’s a rather interesting option

It can be simple if the enemy are in front of you and you keep your armor mostly straight on

In a weird way, it’s sort of a better but oversized E5

[remote oriole]

It’s an opinion because it‘s morals. It‘s arbitrary. There is no universal truth as to what place in society a human should have. There is literally no constant, just arbitration

You literally say that heavies show up in the game more because of the bias, which will naturally bias all performance as the environment changed. You can‘t argue that human opinion is invalid because of the environment it‘s in while arguing that statistics are valid despite the environment they‘re in

Saying that people‘s opinions don‘t reflect the game is a hot take in itself. These opinions literally shape the game, as you yourself claimed when saying that people play more heavies and tds because they think (opinion) that they are easier to play (they actually are but ok, I can literally use performance stats to show it to you if you want). And aside from that, human decision making is not arbitrary in a valid environment (moral issues are not valid because there is no objective truth. Neither are games of random chance, like MM). I would argue that while tank balance involves some random parameters it‘s deterministic enough for humans to make a solid and sound judgement based on their personal environment, meaning their playstyle and skill level, amongst other things.

This opinion is neither inaccurate, nor arbitrary, nor vague nor anything else you mentioned. Given enough experience and skill, these opinions are expert opinions for a reason - individual opinions with remarkably high accuracy. These opinions are a lot more valuable than statistics which you can interpret either way (and trust me, you can always interpret them either way). And even non-expert opinions can be averaged out

Yes, of course you won‘t get good opinions in an invalid environment. But you won‘t get good single case statistics there either, so you need to average anyways. And yes, you won‘t get good opinions where human perception is too limited - but none of that makes opinions useless

[quick lichen]

Can we just take this to dms at this point?

[scarlet fjord]

aside from extremely poor players allowing u to just keep ur armor forward and farm free dmg
everything else isn't a simple playstyle
but yeah if u keep ur armor forward and ur hull down ur pretty much a kranvagn

yeah the very flat sides and huge size makes it difficult to play rather often because u arent hull down at all times (although that turret traverse speed and brilliant reverse speed definitely helps) u can play it like a MBT and it demolishes with tungsten even if they pen u they're most likely using gold and u have a lot of hp's and a punchy gun very deadly thing u dont want to deal with

[quick lichen]

Even on flat terrain it’s still not a giant front plate. I think I need to play mine some more

You definitely have to keep in mind how tall and long it is. Very easy to get hit in the sides when poking

[slender latch]

Wish they kept it's p/w and top speed of 50 kph tho

[lean gate]

Day 56 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[fading crescent]

wargaming please give the grille and the rest of the line back its old alpha.

[fading crescent]

give this a tumbs up if you agree

[unique scaffold]

I’m sorry mate but this chat probably won’t actually affect anything, it’d probably take tons of negative feedback from all players to give the grille a buff that’s wanted by the community

[fading crescent]

then lets give it lots of negative feed back in all the channels

[scarlet fjord]

like with missiles

[unique scaffold]

It's not a game breaking thing like that, its a fairly specific buff

[scarlet fjord]

i meant WG most likely only listens to that level of backlash
but yes it isn't that problematic i think thats obvious

[winter plover]

As a counterbalance, the spall liner consumable gets removed from the tank (half sarcasm)

[leaden flare]

id support the removal of spall liner from all tanks

[meager igloo]

I think the IS-2SH definitely needs a armor buff

[coarse badger]

I think the STG definitely needs a prammo buff

[upbeat sphinx]

Stg should get 240 apcr like the borrasque.

[burnt wasp]

The chieftain mk 6 needs a turret armor buff and penetration buff

[real bison]

imo all it really needs is the turret to be more uniform

its got a really janky turret model right now, with random spots being pennable, isnt the cupola enough of a weakspot?

[coarse badger]

Wait for PBR 💀

[real bison]

current Mk.6 turret model has polygons all over, and is genrally very inconsistent with thickness

[unique rock]

Patton and E5 and a few other American tanks have that too

[burnt wasp]

Yea man but most f2ps would disagree:(

[real bison]

it has a massive cupola

[main tulip]

What does being f2p have to do with it

[burnt wasp]

O well

[real bison]

also can we just talk about how near useless vents are

5% to crew mastery barely does anything

how about 10% boost/decrease to tank stats rather then crew mastery

[main tulip]

yeah they need to make the alternative to cali more viable for autoloaders

[autumn zodiac]

If it was a system that greatly reduced after shot dispersion that would be pretty viable

Similar to single shot tanks trying to get the next shell ready ASAP, Autoloaders want as many of their shells in their clip to hit since they don't need to really worry about the next shell time other than mag reload

Even the name is pretty easy to do for the equipment.

[real bison]

thing is that would create a whole problem in itself with the TVP 5051

@autumn zodiac true

screw it, maybe we should get an equipment system like WoTPC's

would make games more interesting imo

[autumn zodiac]

"Improved Recoil Dampening"

[autumn zodiac]

Wargaming created the TVP problem themselves

They didn't need to buff both the Intra-clip and accuracy

Autoreloaders should keep Vents however

Vents do assist in 3 overall reloads Making it not a bad option

[main tulip]

tbh I would like if they nerfed kran's heat pen in exchange for a small buff to the mobility, DPM, or even 10 degrees of gun depression

[real bison]

its barely an increase however, Prog 46 has 6.21 w/ vents vs 6.34 without, a difference of 0.07s

if the 5% +/- applied to tank stats instead of crew mastery:
For the Prog 46, the first shell is loaded in 6.34s
if a -5% decrease in the loading time was used, it would be 6.02s (diff. of 0.32s)
the 2nd and 3rd shell (both are 4.98s) would then be 4.73s (diff. of .25s)
which means a 20.48s load + unload time (aim time not accounted)
and dispersion would go from 0.317 (no refined gun) to 0.301

if it was 10%, a 6.34s reload would be reduced to 5.71s (diff. of 0.63s)
and the two 4.98s reloads would go down to 4.48s (diff. of 0.5s)
which means a 19.67 load + unload time (aim time not accounted)
and dispersion would go from 0.317 (no Refined Gun) to 0.285

[autumn zodiac]

I meant for full mag reload

Especially on the longer reloading ones

Progetto 46 is also a terrible example

[real bison]

for the Kran, a 12.79s reload for the first shell goes down to 12.05s (-5%) or 11.51 (-10%)
9s for 2nd shell goes down to 8.55s or 8.1s
8.05s for the third shell goes down to 7.65s or 7.25s

giving it a combined load + unload time of 34.25s or 32.86s (aim time not accounted) vs 35.84s

[unique scaffold]

Why not just make it +10% crew mastery? That would be a big enough increase IMO

[lean gate]

Day 57 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[merry pelican]

buff t110e5 reload 🥲

[long star]

hm uprising and big boss tournament when guys

[slender latch]

Imagine this Hetzer with an optional 105mm fitted that deals 300 avg dmg

[small crane]

Day 1 of asking Rebuff Grille alpha to 640 again

[unique scaffold]

This. The model is bad but everything else is good. So much tanks would be great with a good PBR, i really hope they release them for the old tier X Premiums someday

[marble mantle]

The kpz tier x has so many weak points in the front turret. There’s no comparison with the other tier X meds in almost every case.

[autumn zodiac]

That's pure Copium right there, the turret is suprisingly strong

[cerulean agate]

wait y'want a very versatile med to have as few as possible turret weakspots???

[real bison]

huh

[unique rock]

seems balanced to me

[unique scaffold]

Guy salty it not the second coming of Type 71

[neat crescent]

Yeah that's AP, it's indeed balanced, vs heat it's more green 😐, like the entire right side, and that's vs 300mm heat, not even heavy average at 340mm which laughts at u

[unique scaffold]

Well yes, it’s very strong vs AP but fairly average vs prammo, still decent though as far as I can tell, and it doesn’t need the best turret, it’s got a strong upper plate with decent speed and a pretty nice gun, soft stats are all pretty good too

[vital sedge]

What do you all think of the CS-52lis?

[lean gate]

Day 58 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[marble mantle]

Maybe look at the game effects rather than a third party site?

[real bison]

idk where youre getting penned in your kpz 50t

[nimble zodiac]

Oh? The third party site that literally simulates the game and gives you the liberty of seeing how shots happened in your replays?

[neat crescent]

The German version of e50m if it were a t62-a tbh

[marble mantle]

It’s still not the game. You don’t play blitz hanger

[scenic apex]

so we shouldn't use a very helpful tool built literally built for recreating the exact stuff that happens in-game
ig we shouldn't use hammers to hit nails into wood because we don't need hammers just hands

[marble mantle]

Maybe you should focus on “re-create” in your sentence? The rover error was not “re-created” in the helpful tool.

[distant river]

Blitzhangar simulates the game with very good accuracy and gives you an easy environment to look at things without having to get someone else with the right tank in a training room. It'll give you the same result whether you look in game or in blitzhangar for nearly all tanks

[nimble zodiac]

But regardless, I know if the shell will penetrate or not because I knew the Rover could penetrate any plate that isn’t auto-rico, and thinner than its penetration.
Hard to visualize red-green? Yeah, a little. Will the Rover commonly see 140mm plates to normalize into? Not really, so it didn’t matter that much

Even then, that normalization was undesired, so it would have been patched up soon like it was, making all your lovely Rover info useless

[winged barn]

doesn't look at armor profiles, buys tank, whines about armor profile

Big brain time.

[nimble zodiac]

Clearly has never played the Leopard 1 and can’t appreciate the armor difference while keeping great DPM 🤔

[main tulip]

what's the worst tier 9 in your guys' opinion
apparently meadsy thinks it's the wz-120 🤔

[winged barn]

Bruh
That tank slaps

Wz td is definitely the worst tier 9

[marble mantle]

Doesn’t look like you read what I wrote

[nimble zodiac]

From a guy who reacts thumbs up to his own messages

[slender latch]

Don't know what u smokin' but tier 9 WZ TD is actually decent

[unique scaffold]

Yeah I guess

[winged barn]

Armor: approaching useless
Gun: no dpm, accuracy, Flexibility(turret or gun depression)
Mobility: nonexistent

Things that it actually has: pen

If you want firepower, pick literally any other td
If you want (uhhh hp pool I guess) pick any heavy.

Amazing pen doesn't make up for every other stat on the tank being garbage

[stiff kelp]

I think if you refer to it's nerfed state when it had 3 gd, that tank sucked so hard, the actual wz 120 it's pretty good.

Imo I think it's the e75, personally i think the tank it's ok but I can't get used to his playstile

[slender latch]

I don't think stats truly reflect its performance plus it has Reactive Armor consumable can trade pretty much with any t8-9 enemies

[compact nymph]

Please do temind him that free exp for modules exists. The WZ is a pretty good tank

[unique scaffold]

You need ~260k fxp which is pretty bad, I’m up to around 200k that I’ve saved, I’ll buy the wz 120 later I guess. I think 200k gives you the top gun, and maybe an engine/track upgrade

[winged barn]

It has reactive armor, but it still has a td hp pool (bad) and armor profile (bad) that don't back up the taking hits part of it.

If that's the only upside (that still has downsides of gun, mobility, and flexibility) then the tank still gets an absolute garbage rating from me.

[slender latch]

Depends on how you play to get the most out of it, thought the same thing about T95 as being bad turns out was pretty darn good with turbo boost

[upbeat sphinx]

For me is either the patton m46( the pen kills it) or the pta because 6° of gun depression is barely usable.

[unique scaffold]

add pbr to m4 54 plsss

[lean gate]

Day 59 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[autumn zodiac]

I agre with the Chinese tier 9 TD being the worst tier 9.

Barring the aforementioned bad stats in most aspects it's also gigantic which makes hiding the tank from enemy sight impractical

[latent snow]

The obj 752 should be moved to tier 10

[nimble zodiac]

Changes will definitely have to be made to the stats, outside of HP

[pallid nest]

Doubt they would move it to t10, turning a prem people bought for 15k gold into one that would've cost 25k

[scenic zodiac]

Seems like he got bullied by one in tier 8 🤷

[dusty juniper]

day 1 of asking nerf type71

[unique scaffold]

Hrghbgg

[simple crystal]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[pallid nest]

"now it's a shame to talk"
Based on what you wrote there, at least that bit you got right

[full token]

Free buff to account value

[unique scaffold]

Did it cost enough for that tho ? Also it’s too similar to the wz tier X Czech heavy they will release someday

I think obj 752 just needs an armor nerf. You can’t have a tank that sturdy at tier IX with that kind of gun. The gun is the gimmick but the armor is very trollish and should be worse.

[latent snow]

yea I can’t really hurt the thing at all in tier 8 and with tier 9 meds.

[upbeat sphinx]

Tier 6 heavies should be get a little bit nerfed:
They have almost double the hp of tier 5 meds/TD, that's just too much. Another thing that I guess should be addressed is the view range: at least at lower tiers mediums should have an advantage on that. Tier 5 meds and tier 6 heavy share the same view range

[nimble zodiac]

That's like... how a tier 9 heavy works

[spice raptor]

Does German Panzer IV G need more little pen?

[latent snow]

No all have some sort of a weak point 🤨

[leaden flare]

So does 752 cupola or lfp

[slender latch]

Doesn't it play like an ST-I with same 8° gun dep plus strong turret if so the ST-I would also need nerf

[unique scaffold]

ST-1 has a stronger turret as far as I can tell

[latent snow]

try to hit the cupola when its hulldown

[leaden flare]

If it uses full gd it's easier it's only hard to hit if it uses full elevation

[lean gate]

Day 60 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[main tulip]

752 has a lower profile, better mobility, and an autoloader with slightly more alpha compared to the ST-I. It's absurdly busted tbh

[autumn zodiac]

Nope

If you can't make 110 work on your AP and 158 on your APCR that's a user issue

[lyric marsh]

They should buff KV-1's armor so the new players can have fun and not lose interest in the game.

[minor minnow]

Counter argument: they should not to allow the new players to have fun and not lose interest in the game

[remote oriole]

I can‘t decide which argument I find more convincing

[uneven narwhal]

Certainly is an interesting choice

[autumn zodiac]

If you realized this was a heavy meta I would suggest nerfing all heavies including KV-1

[nimble zodiac]

KV-1 should be nerfed to you???

[prisma jetty]

Even with the heavy meta, KV-1 is kinda bad

[slender latch]

That's cause 122mm t6 HTs exist like KV-1S and Thunder it gets powercrept

[scenic apex]

that's a tier higher, that's like saying the M6 sucks because the Smasher just does better

[main tulip]

guys the IS-8 is bad because the IS-7 is better

[slender latch]

Ye that's why it only performs well against t4-5 why keep it when u could get its successor that can do well against t6-7

[mortal breach]

I need Reedem code

[upbeat yoke]

Up gun type71

[prisma jetty]

Why keep KV-1S when you can get it’s successor?

[unique scaffold]

So to follow @lean gate, Day 1 of asking WG to change M60 turret to M60A1

[slender latch]

Both use 122mm with same pen and IS is already powercrept at t7

[prisma jetty]

IS has better survivability. Why wouldn’t you go for the better tank?

[cerulean mason]

Buff the DPM of the AMX 30 B. Every YouTuber says it’s an irrelevant tank as is. You know you need to do this.

[winged barn]

Ah yes
The best reason
Youtubers say its bad

[unique rock]

Opinion; France has the worse tanks in the game.

Change my mind

[prisma jetty]

BDR G1 B is arguably the best tier 5 heavy tank, and the ARL comes after it which is rather good itself

[upbeat sphinx]

*low tier

[scarlet fjord]

ngl 113 is such a monster of a tank

[tropic drum]

Type buff when

[sudden drum]

badger nerf when? seriously badger has armor, speed, gun. . theres nothing it doesnt have

[nimble zodiac]

A turret =>

Note: I agree, I’m just picking on your exaggeration 😋

[main tulip]

it doesn't have speed either really, it's just not tortoise levels bad

[compact nymph]

Badger's not very fast speed-wise but have fun trying to circle it

[latent snow]

well they areant noob friendly at all, they are high ceiling tanks for the most part

[unique scaffold]

Which type lol the 71 is super strong

[scarlet fjord]

tbh i used to spam 50B and foch 155 before WG changed them
and now sheridan is so insane i dont really see a reason to drive the bat chat even though it has a different gun
sheridan just hits 2 of batchat's shells instatly (not really but u get the point)
plus it has insane view range and its a light tank

[unique scaffold]

That is true though, this tank just needs something. I would personally advocate for an advantageous PBR that makes the hatch smaller.

@unique rock you're actually right at least for tier X. But people are not ready for that.

AMX 50b was made irrelevant by 9.1

Foch 155 has always been too inaccurate, and the armor is ineffective af. Anything hits the hatch (which should be red and very hard to hit imo)

Bc -25 won't work because it's so small and weak in small maps where a small tank needs big DPM or fast intraclip. It would be fine with a 2.3 sec intraclip and 13 sec reload but they won't touch it.

AMX M4 54 was already struggling and needed 490-500 alpha like in pc. Instead of doing that they nerfed the accuracy to death, took out the mobility, and gave it a poor tungsten shells instead. The tank is HUGE and quite easy to hit frontally because of the two angled frontal plates, and because of the hatches. The sides are paper. Very painful to play

AMX 30 b is just boring and irrelevant like so many meds, it just struggles to be fun to play with. The hatch makes the armor irrelevant, the depression irrelevant, the accuracy and DPM aren't enough, just a tank that they could not have implemented in the game.

I have just stopped playing France since 9.1, just irrelevant and unfunny.

US and Brits have gotten much funnier and I enjoy spamming my meta t57, Yoh, fv215b, E3, fv4005, etc.

French tanks are even worse than Russians and that's quite something to say.
And as @scarlet fjord said the Sheridan is way funnier than bc. I will add Vickers as a better light.

[scarlet fjord]

i would have to disagree on the AMX M4 54
to me that is the best performing tank in tier 10 i get 80% win rate on that tank its one of the most ridiculous heavies I've driven
it feels like an MBT with that tungsten on it
it can just nuke other heavies for 550 sometimes its so deadly when a tank like that can do that
its impenetrable frontally hull down (not in all scenarios) but frontally at least its not pennable
it has AP as standard and as gold round
its turret traverse makes its turret even harder to pen when people are shooting ur sides u can react sometimes
its insane 20 reverse speed
hull armor is not amazing but its decent
alpha is deadly accuracy is not perfect but it does the job for the nukes it throws at you sometimes
yes its huge and it has its flaws every tank has flaws
but to me M4 54 is a perfect tank suits me amazingly well
the major problem with the tank is that its actually much harder to drive than people think
when you master it
you will see what kind of a monster it is
when i first bought it i regretted my purchase instantly
but 2 weeks after i realized what the tank actually was i changed my mind entirely cuz its so misleading when u just look at the stats

[unique scaffold]

Day 2 of asking WG to change M60 to M60A1

[nimble zodiac]

That’s not even a balance suggestion 🤦‍♂️

[unique scaffold]

Would make it have a big different from M48 :v
Besides, I'm doing this knowing full well WG will never making such drastic model change

[nimble zodiac]

Yeah but that's just a tank change, nothing about the M60A1's balance is addressed

[lean gate]

Day 61 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[unique scaffold]

Should it be M60? I was talking about making M60 more distinct from M48
There are some thought I have doing this, WG can either putting a buffed T95E6 turret onto it (mainly because the cheek is more sharply angle) which would make it America 30B
Or WG would also model the turret with Urdan cupola (M60 and M48 current cupola), that would just powercreep M48 and I don't want that
Edit:I want to add something else here, while I DO want WG to add M60A1 (and to replace M60 with it if possible), I'm fully aware my opinion in regard to M60 is pretty much a minority. If anything, Starship (M60A2) is much more likely to be added than a full remodel and rename of M60

[twin egret]

Wasnt the Starship a failure irl though?

[prisma jetty]

It was more so hated so much by crews that the US Army didn’t really bother trying to fix it

[molten urchin]

skill issue

@unique rock wasnt trying but ok sure mr worldwide

[unique rock]

My mind hasn't been changed by that comment

[wicked quest]

Why would starship be added more than the M60A1? Hell why would wargaming even waste resources adding it in and 60 does have minor and cosmetic differences than it’s brother Starship Is a glorified howitzer where it’s main purpose was long removed

[proven drum]

Yes please, the 260 is so weak atm. It lost its mobility and the ap rounds on t10 meds mean that’s it’s already poor turret can no longer bounce them due to the normalisation

[main tulip]

It also needs a legendary camo that doesn't look like a frog

[unique scaffold]

Because Starship bring gameplay different? Vs just go a long way to buff M60 (because that was M60A1 is, M60 with better turret)

[wicked quest]

Like? I just said it’s a glorified howitzer it’s another Sheridan that’s slower and fatter traits that do not bode well and why does m60 need a buff? It’s fine where it is

[unique scaffold]

It a kpz 70 in T10, that enough to sell the playerbase.
That why I said I fully aware my opinion in regard M60 is pretty much a minority, and the reason is mostly boiling down to wanting to create more different between M48 and M60

[wicked quest]

There’s no need to the tier 10 medium pool is already incredibly vast and kpz 70 isn’t exactly a stellar vehicle it’s a pretty miserable one despite people saying it’s tolerable

[unique scaffold]

Yeah that what I mean, while M60A2 definitively can still sell to the playerbase in 2022, it no longer is to WG. And if that doesn't have any hope to be seen here, how that speak about M60A1?

[livid lynx]

Good idea. the kpz 70 feels kind of like a t10 tank, also there is its similar name brother kpz 50. I think just when the concept 1b was released it was a t9 but then got increased to t10

[drowsy plaza]

Concept was X here since test.

[round oracle]

I suggest changing the WZ-120-1G-FT tank damage from 400 to 420 or 460 and the reload time from 8.3 to 9.3, as I believe it would be much cooler to play with it using these modifications.

[nimble zodiac]

Nah

[thorny fox]

Can the official consider changing the gun damage of the kpz 70 to a standard 152mm caliber gun, or give him a Japanese-specific equipment Jiugongge? It is also a creation of the top technology of the year, it should not be as ordinary as it is now

[wild thorn]

i think grille 15 should have a bit more alpha damage because that nerf was a bit unnecessary from world of tanks

[willow hawk]

If WG adds the M60A3 to the game, I’d buy it. Features the same 105mm rifled M68 gun, in a slightly different chassis, hull, and turret. Armor profile will also be unique, with similar weak spots like on the STB-1 turret welds.

[quick lichen]

Erm. It’s a tier 9 heavy and 640 alpha is unnecessarily high. It’s already highway in class 560 vs 460. Secondly… why would a German tank get anything Japanese?

[unique scaffold]

If WG does add M60A3 into the game, how likely it is has APCR as premium round?

[leaden flare]

It deserves a better HE tho it's has 640 for no logical reason and after adding countless stupid spall liner aka fun remover it's just pointless

[quick lichen]

Spall liner needs to be removed. It’s a crutch for bad gameplay in thinly armored vehicles that should get punished when they make mistakes

[leaden flare]

I agree entirely
And even without the HE is very bad and there is, for me, no reason why sheri with the same gun should have more Alpha on HE even tho it can get sides much easier

My wish would be a kpz with a decent HE alpha doesn't need to be the 960 from avg 152mm guns the 780 from t49 would already make it one of the best t9s if not slightly op but then again conq exists with 170mm HE and 515 alpha

[fossil marten]

Seriously? What about huge tanks, like the FV4005 that can be spotted almost straight away?

[quick lichen]

If hiding in the back behind cover is hard, play something else or maybe a different game. Zero sympathy

[uneven narwhal]

Slapping people for 1640 in 5.25s/7s accurately, then being able to take lesser HE damage seems fair

[twilit crystal]

Fv4005 absolutely needs it .

[fossil marten]

😂 steady lad, it was only a question, jeeez some people are so sensitive.
And to Ence; I didn’t agree with the buff, should’ve stayed at 3 shells.
But as I said above; it was just a question; I don’t play the FV that much, I was just curious as to whether or not any thought had gone into the statement. Clearly I touched a nerve 😅
Careful @twilit crystal maybe you should play a different game, like me!

[unique scaffold]

Give Maus another cheek turret armor buff or make the gun relevant.
Grille 640 alpha or more camo idk.
Germans are great apart from that.

[leaden flare]

Nah spall liner has to go
I can avoid every single consumable but spall liner is unavoidable

[uneven narwhal]

It doesn't, that big box of paper needs to actually be a big enough disadvantage, not negated by the Spall

@fossil marten I wasn't being aggressive towards you, just adding to Vers' comment

[quick lichen]

It’s literally saying “I don’t know how to play this tank, please make it easier for me”

[fossil marten]

Apols, the sensitive bit of my reply was intended for Mr Verstappen.
@quick lichen if that’s the case; are you criticising the WG developers for introducing that feature or just the players like me that you want to leave the game?
@nimble zodiac if that’s the case, then why did they (the devs) introduce it in the first place? Surely WG devs only work off the data?
Or maybe they recognised from the data that on maps as small as blitz has (as opposed to WOTPC where thinly armoured TDs can properly hide) a tank as big and thinly armoured as the FV4005 is seriously disadvantaged 🤷🏻‍♂️

[nimble zodiac]

Criticizing the devs for adding a feature that gives a straight up buff without the need for skill to use it.

The players can’t be blamed for using a busted provision

[stuck acorn]

640 at T9 isn't unnecesarilly high. It would just make Kpz something unique and something that is actually worth to play. For now playing kpz has literally no point. Gun is bad, hull armor is bad, gun depression is bad, mobility is average and so on.

Literally only things somewhat decent about the tank are it's turret armor that is still pennable and hard to use because of it's bad gun dep, and alpha which can't compensate for all other gun stats that suck.

If smasher can have 640 alpha at T7, why Kpz can't have it at T9? Ofc it's not most viable comparsion but still Kpz would not be even slightly overperforming with 640 alpha. It would be just something different than generic MBT scrapped from literally everything to fit in the game in some way

It is a lot, but look at it's reload, accuaracy and every other stat. Alpha damage itself is not enough to break the tank

@nimble zodiac Daily reminder that at T7 we have no TD with more than 640 alpha, at T6 we don't have even single TD with that alpha but we have an HT and before release of the 183 only tank that had higher alpha than E100 in the entire game was Jgpz

We also already have a T30 that basically is a heavy with less HP

@quick lichen That would make it somewhat viable, but it would also need to get HE like in grille, not like in 60TP. I find it extremely stupid that tank with 560 alpha at T9 reloads about the same time and is by far less accurate as 640 alpha tank at T7 despite them being in same class

[quick lichen]

Both. People rely on it way too much and wg have brought in way too many gimmick super consumables

[quick lichen]

I think it’s a lot when 2nd place is 460

[nimble zodiac]

Let’s give the tier 9 heavy the same alpha that the top damaging tier 9 TDs have 🤪

Then buff something else??

Also probably give at least 800 HE alpha

[leaden flare]

I mean he's right in many points
Kpz has the worst t9 pen next to t54
It's gun isn't that accurate
The dpm isn't anywhere near good
The turret is full of weakspots
The gd is horrible
The mobility is okay
The HE pen is nice but the HE shell itself is worthless

Kpz does not reward anything other than not playing it

I'm fine with all the above if they would buff the HE alpha to smth useful

[quick lichen]

I’ll meet in the middle. Give it 600 alpha like the grille

[stuck acorn]

And make it another generic tank with nothing special about it? Sorry, but we don't need another typical heavy. All tiers in the game are filled with 4 different types of heavy tanks:

• classic russian-like heavy
• hulldown heavy
• heavium
• big chunky tank

In literally all tiers above 6 we have just a few exceptions from this rule like T57, KV-2, VK45B etc. We don't need anymore of that. Kpz could become something fresh while still being balanced.

It may have decent amount of HP, but it's far from something that could amke it unique, alpha is also too low for that. 560 at T9 is laughable for the reload it has

Ah yes classic argument. Tank is trash? Git gud and do better. Let's keep 3 or 4 meta tanks and leave rest to rot just because you don't want to get shot for 640 which isn't tbf even anything scary at T9

[nimble zodiac]

Alpha and HP is what’s special about it 🤨
Just pad some other stats

Sit behind cover to reload lol, don’t put yourself in DPM fights

"Git gud and do better", you tellin me that you have an argument for a tank being bad because you don't use the basic advice I gave you?

[unique scaffold]

Day one of reminding you all we should unite and ask for a buff on the Maus. Either turret cheeks to make it relevant and worth the worst mobility and gun of the tier; either make the gun relevant (alpha , dpm and pen)

[remote oriole]

Why day one? Why not week one?

[unique scaffold]

The t92e1 has a near-indentical gun to the kpz with a lot of other advantages for the tank. It can actually get around and use its HE pen, which is balanced by the alpha. It has all the advantages of a light tank including speed so it doesn't need good dpm. I don't see how buffing the kpz AP and HE alpha makes it unbalanced. The t92 is a good tank but not OP, and I think it's a lot better than the kpz with a very similar gun. The kpz isn't that great at being a heavy, it's hull armour is no more than troll, it's turret is weak enough that I can consistently pen it with a 75% crew wz 120 (around 0.493 dispersion with provisions) using 220 pen AP, and it's gun dep is terrible. I think it needs either a gun buff (what makes the tank interesting and different) or give it 7 degrees GD to make it more useful, albeit getting closer to a more standard heavy.

[leaden flare]

im fine with the 560 AP i want the tank to reward skill so more he alpha as it only has 640 which is underwhelming as hell since your HE can roll lower than HEAT

[quick lichen]

I’m just so tired of seeing people complain about it for 3 years

[indigo tinsel]

agreed. Spall liner makes HE shells have less alpha than AP... It reduces the HE damage by too much. Really should just be removed entirely.

Uggghhh 10 minute slowmode

[quick lichen]

It punishes good players for taking advantage of game knowledge and rewards bad players for no reason

Half the time you’re better off just shooting Ap

[unique scaffold]

People have been complaining about the 183 for longer than 3 years, not sure why that affects the argument either way

[leaden flare]

well i wouldnt have brought it up if someone else didnt bring it up ive quit playing the tank for those reasons

it does look amazing and with pbr it would look even better
and it was one of the few high tier tanks available for free

[quick lichen]

I get that

It seems like it’s a forgotten tank to wg

I think it looks amazing and I wish it was good

[indigo tinsel]

It should indeed have 600 alpha and 800 or something on HE, that would pretty much fix it.

[lean gate]

Day 62 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[fossil marten]

Maybe heed your own advice then. Players have the right to ask for, campaign for or even demand changes; to tanks and the game. Just because they raise it doesn’t mean you have to spend any time on it, just scroll on down. Zero sympathy

[nimble zodiac]

Then it wouldn't be a discussion lol

[quick lichen]

There’s a huge difference between discussing a tank and how to balance it vs defending a horrible consumable

The KPZ has already been buffed 4-5 times and it still isn’t quite enough. It’s frustrating to see good arguments amount to nothing because the devs either forgot about it or don’t think it needs anything

Statistically it’s performing well even if the damage is low

[stuck acorn]

That's obviously because it's a premium. It has way less players and majority of them are good

50TP is not comparable with kpz. It's just broken 💀

That's true

[quick lichen]

Sort of

The 50tp is comparable given they were both event tanks iirc

How it’s distributed is comparable

I’m not comparing them on performance

[unique scaffold]

I mean if WG want to give it 640 alpha AP and 960 HE then it reloads and DPM is going to take a huge hit. I'm more of give it atleast 680 alpha HE
@quick lichen just HE alpha, or I have worded it wrong?
Yeah, I was talking keeping it AP and HEAT alpha, buff it HE alpha a bit up to 680 (40 more). But if WG is going to give it 600 alpha AP then more power to them

[quick lichen]

680 for a tier 9 heavy (higher than any tier x) is both absurd and will not happen

[slender latch]

I thought people played Kpz for it's sexiness not performance, since you know T30 exist already

[quick lichen]

The kpz is what we are talking about. 152mm gun with 560 Ap/490 pramo/640 he. I think 600/530/700-740 would be fine

[quick lichen]

Interesting take and a valid point tbh

[wicked quest]

That’s why I bought it in the first place and I regret it highkey i wanted it bad for 2 years since it first came in the event but why wargaming chose to make it a tier 9 will forever be the main question could have been so much fun and it was butchered for no reason

[quick lichen]

I think they’re afraid of alpha and what it does/can do. However I feel like clippers are far more dangerous for blitz and the 752 is a solid example

[main tulip]

Laughs in Bz-176

[unique scaffold]

Yes exactly, the idea that 640 alpha doesn't exist for a tier nine heavy is technically true, but theres tanks like the yoh that can put out 900 dmg in 1.7 secs

[wicked quest]

For the time it was released (2017) I understand (weird fact kpz is 5 years old now too) but they could have chosen any better tank to accompany the T49 I have a feeling the kpz was only chosen because warthunder at the time added it I mean i still have hopes the MBT 70 is in some form of consideration but it’s ridiculous how that would age 5 years later

[quick lichen]

Given how poor the dpm and gun handling is, I think they probably could just buff the alpha and leave everything else

[lunar niche]

Why not more gun depression instead of higher alpha?

[quick lichen]

There’s other gun depression tanks but having it be a high alpha tank sets it apart from every other

[unique scaffold]

^^^this, I think 7 degrees is a viable option, but it’s better to buff the interesting point of the tank, it’s a pretty neat tank tbh

[scarlet fjord]

type 71 nerf when

[unique scaffold]

So I thought about it a little bit and I think it should
Have lower plate, cupola and side nerf down 80mm
The 178mm side plate nerf to 100mm
Rear nerf to 60mm
WG could buff it gun handling back a bit in exchange? Or not, as Type 71 is cracked

[uneven narwhal]

See this funny thing?
Remove it.

[nimble zodiac]

Lower plate nerf won’t do anything for AP and APCR

Don’t make it stupidly thin, just lower its angle

[uneven narwhal]

I have no idea how Wargaming looked at a tank with the lower plate at an auto ricochet angle, with the drive wheels having 170mm nominal armor behind them, and decided to give it something that makes it turn at 50deg/s
Truly spectacular balancing

[unique scaffold]

I only now checked lower plate angle 😦
So bring it down to 40mm?
How often WG do a remodel for a balance change? I haven't been around for long to know. Because if WG nerf lower plate via reduce it angle, the same should be done to it cupola too @nimble zodiac

[scenic zodiac]

I have nothing against 183, but when my ‘barn’ got clapped for 1765 in one shot, I instantly got spall, even though I was short on credits.

I agree with @fossil marten, the blitz maps are too small for something as big as barn to hide effectively, it’s would get raped by tanks like 183 and 4202 with out spall.

I mean, it has 14mm of armour, ANY tier tank can pen it.

It NEEDS the spall on blitz.

EDIT: there was fire involved.

And @nimble zodiac I wasn’t poking 183, was supporting meds and got clapped trying to back off.

[quick lichen]

Nothing hits above 1625🤔

[nimble zodiac]

Don't poke 183s?
Also it shouldn't ever do 1765 in one shot alone, in random matches.
Having no armor is a balance point of a tank, FV4005 needs no spall back, especially if it can rip 2000 HP on HE average off of someone

Okay but you still put yourself into the open, it's not like we expect you to never get shot. Just be more aware in your matches so you don't get yourself nuked again

[quick lichen]

It sounds like you need spall liner based on how you play

How hard is it to sit in the back or behind a building?

[prisma jetty]

Harder than it is to put on super speed, clip booster, and spall, then yolo I guess

[unique scaffold]

Well you may have a point, but if there was fire involved then the 183 must have hit your hull, I don’t believe a turret shot will ignite anything(?), sounds like you put yourself in a bad position. @scenic zodiac yeah, well you should know where the 183 is roughly especially playing a tank like 4005

[scarlet fjord]

yeah pretty much

[scenic zodiac]

I was backing off after clipping a med (3 shot days), and had the turret (and hull slightly) turned to look at another potential target, and out popped a suicidal 183 (got raped by the meds I was helping), and hit lower back of turret, and boom.

@quick lichen my 2 6k + games in 4005 came from being close not sitting at the back.

[nimble zodiac]

Oh, so you got outplayed and the 183 paid a heavier price. Why is this the tank’s fault?

[pallid nest]

Do you want to nerf E3 as well? I did more damage in 1 shot than you got from 183.

[scenic zodiac]

E3 nor 183 need a nerf.

@nimble zodiac it’s not a fault of the tank, rather the 183 got lucky I was looking at a juicy heavy, and I was punished by not having spall.

Now I only get hit for 1.2 - 1.3k from 183, thanks to spall

@uneven narwhal yea, it hides like elc bis.

[uneven narwhal]

Just looks like a you problem, the barn is perfectly capable of hiding well
A tank capable of dealing 1640 damage in a short interval should be able to receive HE damage without reduction

[quick lichen]

So your arguing where to play it off 2 singular games?

[pallid nest]

That 1,2-1,3k is the max dmg with spall not the average.
Most often you will get hit for much lower. My FV loves to lowroll...

[scenic zodiac]

I’ve played close to a combined 600 games in 4005.

First account got hacked.
2nd account I’ve aced it.

Ik where to play it.

@uneven narwhal

[uneven narwhal]

Large amount of games != Knowing how to play

[quick lichen]

Where you choose to play a tank is subjective

[pallid nest]

8,8k combined dmg with Valiant Effort wasn't enough to ace it. That says something lol

[stuck acorn]

what the f---

[prisma jetty]

It’s also a loss with 0 kills so… 🤷‍♂️

[unique scaffold]

Sniper tanker badge...you lost half your XP to the guy spotting when dealt that damage, it’s hard to get an ace with high damage games when sniping even on a win. Although obviously some of that damage was dealt without help. Oh nice, didn’t know valiant effort was the same XP as for a win; does that affect base XP?

[pallid nest]

Valiant effort gives same xp as win.

@unique scaffold yepp, its not ace cuz of that.

[willow hawk]

Good insight there, Watson!

[thorny fox]

I just hope that he can choose hydropneumatic suspension or choose better crawler adaptability. The equipment column of Japanese Ht happens to have this, so I quote it directly.

[unique scaffold]

Day 3 of asking WG to change M60 to M60A3

[winter plover]

With infrared spotting mechanism (definetly balanced)

Jokes aside though yeah it should have A1/A3 turret so it would be more than a larger M48. Maybe an option for M60A2 starship with 152 but thats far of a stretch.

[thorny fox]

Since the Type71 came out, I have always had a question: why is its front guide wheel so hard?

[unique scaffold]

178mm behind it, that why

[unique scaffold]

Completely broken yet some pitiful OP spammers still claim that it doesn’t need a humongous nerf.

[molten urchin]

it literately almost has nothing else but armour against MTs and speed lol

you may as well ask for a FV215b nerf lol

Imagine reacting to your own comments smh

[twin egret]

I kinda do have to agree with the nerf though, it seems really dumb to me, I'd rather have the WZ-113 be more flexible in turn though (no pun intended xd)

[junior gate]

ur joking right?

[raw geyser]

178 mm behind the front trackwheels

Permatracking (with damage) was not made as a weakness for the tank it seems, at least “conventional” ways of permatracking. I really disagree with it but ehh, it is what it is

[midnight plover]

@wgThinking about giving some love to grille anytime soon?

[stuck acorn]

They said that they won't make any balance changes at T10 for a year after 9.2 was implemented

[midnight plover]

Why

[lean gate]

Day 63 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[real bison]

The 4005?

imo it’s fine

it’s reverse speed was nerfed which makes it harder to retreat after a peek, it’s peeks became longer at 7.5s (at the least), and it does less damage per shot

it now has to rely on retcal way more than it used too, and if you use either speed boost or intra boost, you now only have one means of repairing any module/ crew damage, making it actually more punishing to play, I for one like the older 4005 better

[scarlet fjord]

Although I personally enjoyed the previous 4005 I play the current one better
I use speed boost and intra clip boost
Because it's so massive its hard to hide it from punishment when overextending so speed boost sort of assists with that also the reload booster does as well I try to use them separately if possible to make my pokes as short as possible
It has 2 major problems rn
Its massive size causes several issues
Camo, hard to miss, hard to take cover etc
2nd issue is it gets focused very hard for obvious reasons

[twilit crystal]

4005 actually has workable camo in the open . The main issue id that its often taller than a lot of bushes

[twin egret]

no, I just think FV215b should be the sole heavy tank with the highest DPM in Tier 10 as it used to be

[nimble zodiac]

So instead of wanting FV215b to be buffed, you want to nerf other tanks?

WZ-113 should be nerfed, but FV215b shouldn’t be the reason

The traverse is still considered bad after the buff?

[willow hawk]

I think the WZ113 is fine as it is. Good DPM, meh armor, horrible hull turn rate, decent speed. It makes it unique. Unless the goal here is to make almost every single tier 10 heavy tank have a 10 sec reload with 420 alpha. The game wouldn’t be that interesting. There wouldn’t be a reason to play the 113 over something like a T110E5 or an IS4.

[willow hawk]

Yo? Have I started a trend? Day 2 of asking WG to add M60A3 to the game? Please?

Or else…add PBR/redesign the current M60 and re-designate it as the M60A3?

[willow hawk]

Been buffed, still not ideal for turning like a few other tanks. Am I saying it’s abysmal? No. Still doesn’t change my point. 113 is fine as is.

[gaunt spear]

After getting it back via VRT and playing it i kindly ask for a small buff of the SU-76. Make it faster, push the penetration or reduce the reload times. At the moment it is a tank for... lovers of the very special and handicapped tanks 😔

[nimble zodiac]

They are not going to rebalance any tier 3 collector tanks

[gaunt spear]

why not? Sometimes it is nice to care about the few unfortunate, old and rusty little memories of a tank 🥺

[nimble zodiac]

You keep it for the memory, not to bully low tier players.

[willow hawk]

Can’t seal club in 1-5 anymore. U can thank update 5.5 for that.

[lethal blaze]

Wg said that they won’t make any changes to tier 10 for a year after 9.2 (which is already stated by someone above)

[winter plover]

Yep i would love the m60 to be changed into M60A3, would make it different from the M48 tech tree counterpart.

Also would be the second tank ingame to have thermal gun sleeve i think

If the M1 cupola (the mg cupola) becomes an issue it could be replaced with the Magach 6 urdan cupola (the cupola M48 and M60 has ingame)

[willow hawk]

IKR!

[unique scaffold]

it's only possible only when WG doing PBR for M60, they aren't going to remodel something twice in a row

[willow hawk]

That’s not what I said lmao. Either,

1. Apply PBR to the M60 to convert it to the M60A3,
   Or
2. introduce the M60A3 as a new separate tank. 🙄

[unique scaffold]

I fully understand what you mean, just unlikely that M60A3 is going to be a separate tank (there's a chance for A2 though)

[oak jetty]

is the smasher balanced? since i got it back and noticed it has a 16.3 seconds reload so do ya think it is balanced? or it should get a buff(unlikely) or a nerf?

[willow hawk]

If WG has the M48 Patton, and the M60, they definitely can add the M60A3. The current M60 has a T95E5 turret. Aka the “Clamshell turret” as iconic with the M48 variants.

The M60A3, however, is completely unique in its armor profile, because it is equipped with a T95E7 “needle nose” turret.

The M60A3 can branch off of the M48 line, or be sold as a premium/collector.

The M60A2 can be branched off of the Sheridan/T49 line, or be sold as a premium/collector.

This here is a money making opportunity for WG, it’s only the matter of if they bite it.

[nimble zodiac]

The reload can be 15.16s if you ran equipment and provisions

[autumn bay]

@solar sorrel I’d rather have IS-2 Shielded than IS-2 Swimmin

[austere moon]

what were ur teammates even doing
thats enough to kill 4 e 50ms
and like 3-4 heavies

[safe rapids]

Well, now it turns fairly quickly after it’s hull traverse buff.

[daring abyss]

I feel like we should kind of fixed analytics a bit because I would like a bunch of games and then all of a sudden end up on a game but like so many heavies and so much armor that we can’t even penetrate them and they just destroy us all

[serene trench]

@safe rapids

[scarlet fjord]

113 is very strong
but u want to nerf 113 when you have bigger problems right now?

[pallid nest]

The usual. They were doing nothing.

[ebon lynx]

What about starship

[unique scaffold]

Startship is M60A2 -_-

[lean gate]

Day 64 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[verbal igloo]

i want the old 62a back tbh i played the new one maybe 4 times before the 'thing' happend over 700

[nimble zodiac]

??

[willow hawk]

Lot of people don’t make sense nowadays

[honest wadi]

Remove 183 = game is balanced

[fossil wing]

remove @honest wadi=dicsord balanced xdxdxd

[pallid nest]

Oh boy, these 40%s give smart suggestions

[prisma jetty]

That wouldn’t balance the game, it would just remove toxicity

[willow hawk]

So you’re saying you’d trust / take the word of someone doing poorly regarding the very specific topic they aren’t so good at?

Simply asking, would you trust someone with your car if you had to choose between:
A) guy has 30+ years of experience plus 90% clearance rate

B) guy with 2 years of experience and 60% clearance rate.

[nimble zodiac]

Yeah but what if both said Type 71 is OP 😳
Both have an equally valid claim, thought you’re fine to pick at any arguments they make for it

For advice, I’d trust A ofc, but both are correct to say it’s OP, and their background shouldn’t be a point of attack in debate until they bring up their own experience

[willow hawk]

What’s wrong with that claim tho? When A guy is going against B guy, the Type 71 would be OP. One would know how to use it better than the other.

Point taken

[willow hawk]

Point taken

[willow hawk]

You’re fine dude, this was on me. Didn’t have my head on straight before I responded.

[tranquil flax]

Hello everyone

[thorny fox]

Wg reinforced Kpz 70

[main tulip]

I don't see why Leo 1 needs to have such horrible HE alpha

[scarlet fjord]

thats just sad
360 AP
400 HE
only reason u have for using HE and risking it is module damage maybe

[main tulip]

"Low pen" as in 3mm less lol
The Russians clearly have the better end of the stick there, 310 AP vs 420 HE is a huge boost compared to the Leo.

[unique scaffold]

Day 4 of asking WG to change M60 to M60A3

[unique scaffold]

Please lord make that happen

[pallid nest]

Day 3748 of asking all APCR as basic shells on tanks to be turned into AP like they did on t10 meds...

[unique scaffold]

No but for a balanced game make foch 155 cupola harder to hit (red like E3’s, with a small weak spot in the middle of the current autopen piñata it is, frontal plate is already too easy to hit not to do this)
Give Amx 50b 2,7 intraclip and old accuracy
Is-4 buff frontal plate armor. Gets penned way too easily
Maus turret cheeks OR turret and hull sides +12mm . it’s a pain to play, you should resist anything when angled. Improving angling while letting the trash frontal armor might be a good idea to balance it. Will take focus easier then.

E5 +200 dpm
E4 stronger hatch
Kranvagn +240 dpm
Prog reverse to 6.3 as @lean gate intelligently asks.
263 reverse to 9.0 state

That’d be nice already.

[unique scaffold]

Terrible, terrible tank.

[neat crescent]

🤷‍♂️ i have close to 85% wr in it, personally i think it's great

[lean gate]

Day 65 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[bronze osprey]

same thing is pretty good

[thick rover]

Yeah sad Sheridan and WZ113 noises

[outer glen]

2 months yet no news about prog lol

[tranquil flax]

Hello friends, can someone explain which gun is better for my tank?

[nimble zodiac]

The stock gun is the best gun
Research the other modules before the guns, because you still need the guns for ISU

Also you shouldn’t post questions like that in this channel, #vehicles-discussion is much more related to your message

[unique scaffold]

its changes with ur play style if ur aim is good use the stock gun and if u are experinced but if u not use the 122mm one

[stiff kelp]

Imo the 152mm gun is better for the role of assault td and take some early shots to deal more dmg, also the pen is good in the 3 shells, the only bad thing it's the dispersion and the reload but at the end you play how you want if the 122mm gun fits more your playstile use it

[acoustic estuary]

Use the derp, if you have skill issues or your just bad with using derps use the other ones.

[sly turtle]

That or you just want to DERP some fools

[acoustic estuary]

Easy to HE people with no braincells who shows their back

[unique scaffold]

85 % wr ? For much games ? At tier X such high winrate seems impossible to reach but nice i guess, anyways you could perform well in it but I think it is terrible in the way that it's features are irrelevant and it feels weird. I can't enjoy that thing in any way

[neat crescent]

Yeah, it's not a tank for everyone

[willow hawk]

Day 4 1/2 of asking WG to add the M60A3

[severe magnet]

Xd

[prisma jetty]

How many battles?

[nimble zodiac]

20, 40, 60? Props if it's higher

[molten urchin]

i mean tbf, its not impossible. I have 300+ games in my 30b and its sitting at 81%

@viscid blade i mean I personally see nothing wrong with the 30b except its useless as turret, lower dpm than leo, and a fuel tank that loves to explode. The foch also is not exactly undesirable, I would play that over the 263 any day lol

[viscid blade]

just because u have good stats doesnt mean tank is good
esp a stat like wr which can be easily padded

my foch 155 has 83% wr, wouldnt call it the best td 🤪

[stuck acorn]

foch for now is actually one of the worst tech tree tds

Somewhere on par with E4 and 263

[lethal blaze]

People say the amx 30 is “terrible” which is partially true but it’s also a tank made for more experienced players. Now if experienced players are having trouble with it idk you might be playing it wrong or wg is just messing with you

[junior gate]

It’s miles above those 2

[stuck acorn]

I'd also say foch is the best out of those 3 because of decent alpha, DPM and mpbility combination, but the tank itself is still pretty bad

[empty scroll]

Wargaming really needs to buff the grille camo man. It's hard enough to play a bad camo td. The 183 has the alpha advantage but grille just suffers everywhere severely limiting it's playstyle

[willow hawk]

Kinda want that alpha back. If not the speed…pleasseee the alpha sucks so bad.

[fickle glade]

idk if this goes here but why the super conqueror doesn't have the same HE penetration like the normal conqueror / FV215b ???

[latent snow]

Ye that whole line just stinks now

[solid scaffold]

Do both of them have the same level of armor and hulldown capability of the sconq ?

[main tulip]

doesn't matter, they have virtually the same gun so they should have the same pen

[solid scaffold]

Until one of them changed its name, like the 50b and 50 120 for example, both ran the same gun so 50 120 should have gotten a 4 shells clip as well, but WG changed 50 120 gun to mod 1

[main tulip]

Should've given 50 120 380 alpha with 3 shots and better dpm tbh

[scarlet fjord]

Nah

[cedar marsh]

i think FV215b needs armor buff because i cant win a single battle and i have like 30 battles

[sharp saddle]

Don’t think it’s wise to base your opinion of a tank needing a buff because of you losing games. I went on a loss streak with my E3 the other day, doesn’t mean it needs a buff. Either bad teams or I was playing bad, or a mix of both.

Besides, FV215b has never really been about the armour and I don’t see that changing

[wispy vault]

This tank will become more toxic fv183 that's why they balanced it like that

[nimble zodiac]

It’s difficult to become more toxic than a 183. I’m not sure why you’re actually comparing them

[leaden flare]

Sconq with 170mm HE yeah sure go for it I'll enjoy myself of all those tears when a very good hulldown now also pens heavys with HE

[unique scaffold]

Day 5 of asking WG to change M60 to M60A3

[fickle glade]

I mean the S. Conqueror it's just a regular conqueror with spaced armor

[willow hawk]

Day 5 of asking WG to add M60A3

[stuck acorn]

no it's not. It's a completly different construction. It has a different shape of turret, it has weakspots at sides unlike normal conq, it has 10 degrees of gun depression and different gun

[cedar marsh]

mk

[lean gate]

Day 66 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[willow hawk]

https://tenor.com/view/execute-order66-order66-66-palpatine-star-wars-gif-20468321

[analog tide]

More armor to kv2

[robust sparrow]

What's the gun on sconq?

[twin egret]

Interesting thought: premium tanks, but like tech tree tanks. A mini branch with premiums you can grind to get but cut off and separate from tech tree tanks. set gold price to purchase the first tank in the branch, with the amount needed to purchase/research being a bit more than the tech tree counterparts

[long mulch]

yeah, i like that idea

[main tulip]

So a premium tech tree where you have to pay gold to get each tank?

[unique scaffold]

Day 1 of asking wg to release type 5 tier X collector tank as a crate tank for Christmas 2023. Yes it can be fair and balanced in blitz. Make it a glorious Maus-like big chunk with a deep gun mostly unable to do anything but splash damage, and another 440-460 regular gun, both good and viable. We can do it.

[nimble zodiac]

Not gonna happen, the size is another problem, too

[fickle glade]

120mm L1A1

[lusty bluff]

Just get vk168

[unique scaffold]

It’s just 1,6 times as big as the Maus.

Huge but could happen

@lusty bluff I’m speaking of tier X type 5 there s nothing in common with vk 168 the only closest thing to it would be the Maus

[quick lichen]

It’s not coming to blitz lol. Ever

[unique scaffold]

Depends how long the game lasts.

[wicked quest]

Been going strong for 8 years almost 9

[unique scaffold]

How could one estimate how well the game is going tho ? Is the amount of monthly players on blitzstars my best call ?

Btw Pantoufleee although he is something of a litteral lier said that someone leaked him that the type 5 might be implemented someday. However considering the type71 was made up especially not to implement the type 5 this seems contradictory and we can't expect the tank to release in near future. The 2023 Christmas tank is a total mystery, i would also be endeared if it was to be an interestingly balanced type 5, but for now all i can say is that the 2022 Christmas tank will likely be the Carro 45t.

[wicked quest]

Pantoflee known for bad opinions and some strange claims being wrong . Surprising wargaming have expressed disdain on adding the Type 5 and like numerous other tanks people keep bugging them for (STRV 103 hydro stb) they won’t add them for reasons and no dam the 2023 Christmas one is a mystery that’s a whole year forward from how suprisingly Type 5 is also made up and Type 71s more believable

Adding onto this we’re getting constant updates reworks and straight up upgrades another Techtree lines on the way maps in development game modes etc

[midnight linden]

The turret has some roots, although it’s just one picture of two Soviet soldiers standing in front of an Imperial Japanese bunker in Manchuria, with an odd but familiar looking turret on it. Other wise the Type 5 Heavy is fake.

[quick lichen]

8 years and it’s not here. They even invented their own Japanese heavy line out of thin air to replace it. It’s not coming here. Neither is arty

[lusty bluff]

I reealize that but if u want the huge bullying effect t8 168 is the one, u can derp 350+ with he or just bully with 460 alpha

[drowsy plaza]

Interesting opinion, as VK 168 and bullying isn’t what I would think of that tank, more like sad piece of trash.

[dry rivet]

Only thing it’s good for is gravity mode. Using its own mass to ram and destroy tanks.

[dry rivet]

Obj 263 needs a gun handling buff. I still can’t hit anything. Maybe reduce aiming time.

[prisma jetty]

The frontally mounted turret can make side scraping a pain. It also has an overall weaker armor profile, and when the Mauschens is already questionable, the 168s is pretty easy to go through

[leaden flare]

The tank is just bad
Huge and easy to pen with almost impossible to hide weakspots the only time it's good is against t7 meds

[slender latch]

Try the VK100 smaller and thicker frontal armor

[ruby pilot]

Hey i‘m new, which tank is the best?

[pallid nest]

The one you practice long enough with to be a good player in.

[unique scaffold]

Arty is bad and would be evil tho, while as they have showed with 268/4 for example they perfectly could balance type 5. They could even give it another nerf all I want is a premium and decently armored Maus to serve Hirohito

@wicked quest yeah it will be in some time anyway. What I see coming in 2022-2023 is rather Italian ts’d, Christmas carro, strv TD line, and Czech heavy line.

But my personal dreams are the German light tank line (they said they worked on it but paused that to reveal the type 71 and to focus on other projects for now) and the type V, along with the rhinoceronte, which will be the fourth Italian X in game and will release in 2023-2024 according to basic logic.

@dry rivet obj 263 was an extremely balanced, fun, enjoyable and flavourful tank. Idk why they deemed it op. It wasn’t. I think the best way of making it viable is just reverting it to its 9.0 state. There was no need to nerf mobility like that. It already paid for it in partial armor, huge ass autopen parts, and dreaded accuracy. But no they had to make it the most frustrating and boring pile of metal you could ever get in.
So either make it a snapshot god with it’s old accuracy either just give the speed back because it was enjoyable and didn’t hurt anyone but a few m46 Patton noobs who rushed into you with he shells.

[twin egret]

no it's kinda like buying a bundle of premiums but for less
but the grind to progress to the next premium tier is more tedious/difficult than the tech tree

[unique scaffold]

Day 6 of asking WG to change M60 to M60A3

[lean gate]

Day 67 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[willow hawk]

Day 6 3/4 of asking WG to add M60A3 to Blitz

[livid bane]

Day 1 of asking WG to add an Argentine tech tree

[tacit pelican]

Day 1 asking WG to buff the Amx 54 gun accuracy little bit, make it like having super Conquer gun accuracy

[mint sand]

I have a problem. I tried rebuy m60 but on website i can't see it in Premium vehicle restoration. Can I do something?

[willow hawk]

M60 isn’t a premium tank. It’s a permanently enriched tank. Even with such, it doesn’t even make credits.

[mint sand]

yeah but my friend open crate and drop it in my acc and sell it instantly and I wanna rebuy it and i can't

[willow hawk]

Well yes, because technically you haven’t “used” the M60, ie enter a battle. So unless you have proof (like a screenshot) that you acquired the M60, there’s not much you can do. You can try submitting a ticket to WG support, and just see where that goes.

If you still have your game application open and HAVE NOT CLOSED IT immediately after selling the tank, the transaction record is temporarily held in your notifications. It shows what crate you opened and what you earned from the crate draw.

[unique scaffold]

Then there Would never be a fourth japanese tier X, a premium one. We want a fourth japanese tier X.

Plus, the type 71 will soon be absolute trash because the balance won't work

[willow hawk]

Type 71 isn’t broken. I’m gonna get hate for this. In my opinion —as in, it’s not a fact— The Type 71 is like a well done steak. Strong armor, but not completely impervious to all ammo. A not-so-accurate gun with the same dispersion values as an IS4 yet the IS4 feels more accurate in hitting things. Once you switch to prammo you can go thru the 71 line butter. And it’s turret traverse is meh. Slightly turn the turret and it instantly becomes pennable. It’s not a fully bouncy turret.

[scarlet fjord]

Type 71 is just annoying sometimes
When it's hull down it bounces a little more than you usually expect

[remote oriole]

Contact WG player support directly (not through the vehicle restoration tool), they are the only ones who can help you now

[quick lichen]

I hope you two don’t hold your breath

[safe rapids]

Do we though?

[nimble zodiac]

This isn’t even related to the channel. Mods, do something about this obnoxious group flood 💀

@upbeat sphinx the sides behind the tracks are 47mm, and the upper sides are 82mm

[upbeat sphinx]

Nerf T1 heavy side armour, should max 70mm effective at 0°, not 82mm. Tier 4 can't pen it with standard on the side when fully exposed.
@nimble zodiac I mean the upper part of side armour, on flat ground is 82mm at 0° degrees. most tier 4 can't pen it on the side.
It's kind of stupid that kv1 has less side armour than the t1 heavy.

[lean gate]

Day 68 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[quick lichen]

I’m always here for it

[wicked quest]

M60 isn’t a prem even if it’s classed as one it’s credit coeff is the exact same as the M48 for some reason WG hasn’t stated why it’s that way

[willow hawk]

No. If you see the gold tank class, premium tanks have a vibrant gold badge. The M60 has a slightly orange tint with a faded shine. It’s made as a “tech tree” tank with a permanent enrichment status. Regular tech tree tanks can only have temporary enrichment.

[twin egret]

I mean, why not a Japanese Light Tank line? Would be interesting and would make the Japanese tech tree to have 4 tier X with each being a different class

[willow hawk]

Actually in this update you can’t see the difference. But a few recent blitz fairs and update notes will indicate the M60 as a “Permanently Enriched” vehicle. I also believe some CCs also described the tank the same way. I think it was Meadsy? Anyways if you’re really that curious you can dig around. Let me know if you find otherwise.

[main tulip]

I remember the 121b being described by WG as being "permanently enriched" when it came out, but idk about the M60

[neat crescent]

M60 is a gift version that's slightly better than the m48, that's all it is, same credit coefficient as tech trre

[willow hawk]

I’m not to sure about the same credit coefficient. It just seems as if I’m losing more credits in the M60 than the M48.

[neat crescent]

I also wish that was the case , however it isn't as you can see

[willow hawk]

That’s unfortunate :/

[unique scaffold]

is the type 57 a real tank?

[neat crescent]

Is the type 71 a real tank?

[nimble zodiac]

Are you real????

[neat crescent]

Am i?

[willow hawk]

Of course it’s real! It was Japan’s best heavy tank during its time of service. The Type 57 played a crucial role in winning the Imaginary War (1954-71) against the Separatist State and the Fantasy Dream War (1978-1983) against the New Separatist State. It was so successful to the extent where all of its historical records and existing models had to be erased from history itself!

[unique scaffold]

Day 7 of asking WG to change M60 to M60A3

[teal crystal]

Will T28 Proto ever get a rebalance? tank isn't played much at all

[unique scaffold]

I see it everywhere

[quaint raptor]

no plan to nuff type71?

[neat crescent]

Oh, so its the 'nuff' guy that was banned from this server before? 👀

[lean gate]

Day 69 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[winged barn]

Nice

[ocean thorn]

KV-2 op ?

[upbeat sphinx]

Buff 100mm on tier 8 meds ( type 59, t 44 etc.)
standard pen should get increased to at least 190mm
alpha should get buffed from 280 to at least 290 or 300

[scenic zodiac]

I feel bourrasque should get 350 alpha like all other 105mm calibre guns.

Just to increase an already low dpm and give it a better burst capability.

[scenic zodiac]

Hence a reason for WG to buff it, they could drop it in crates then people would go mad for it.

I’ve had so many situations where that extra bit of alpha would make a big impact on the outcome of the battle.

[upbeat sphinx]

Nerf type 71 top speed to 32 km/h

[scenic zodiac]

Type speed is fine, it’s only made good by the suspension module

[prisma jetty]

Please tell me you're joking

[full token]

That’s an obvious result of such a buff. It doesn’t justify buffing it though. More alpha will make any tank do better in a situation than without the extra alpha.

[scenic zodiac]

Maybe

Im not trolling, I legit feel it would deserve it

[real bison]

so you want it to potentially do 750 damage in 2s and then reload for 18s to do it again in a highly mobile platform

[nimble zodiac]

Of course not!

He wants it to potentially deal 876 damage in 2s

@scenic zodiac we said potentially, so I took it to two standard max rolls, and even 2.5s is ridiculous. Of course you wouldn't mind, because the tank would still be busted 😂

"Aw shucks, I minrolled for 525 in 2 seconds"

[drowsy plaza]

That concept of a buff is ridiculous

[scenic zodiac]

350 + 350 = 700.

I wouldn’t mind the inter clip became 2.5 secs like t77.

@nimble zodiac ☝️☝️
@drowsy plaza and low roles, which create the average.

The high role can stay at 400, those are incredibly rare in my 800+ games in the tank.
More than often I just deal 600 in a clip, which is not enough to finish off a 640-680 hp tank.

@prisma jetty it’s not a mobile td, it has 190mm of pen.

[drowsy plaza]

@scenic zodiac that is just the average. You need to account for the potential of high rolls to.

I get the low rolls - but the problem is you can’t simply discount the potential for high rolls and considering that tank is already very very good, it doesn’t need more alpha.

[prisma jetty]

“Oh no, I can’t deal more damage than a TD on a more mobile platform with broken camo rating”. Borasque is broken, it doesn’t need a buff. It’s literally a more mobile td with better camo.

Oh dear, it actually has a downside that balances it. Except, its mobile and has good camo rating meaning it can flank easily meaning that semi-low pen isn’t an issue.

[real bison]

thing is about the T77 is that it’s a heavy and therefore can’t as easily back off to reload unlike a bourrasque

plus you gotta realise tank roles here, the T77 is a heavy and should be at the frontline, taking and tanking shots whilst dishing it back against other heavies

whereas a bourrasque is mostly free to do whatever they want, and can essentially pick any target they want

[nimble zodiac]

Really looks like someone wants to oppress the GSOR 1008

Also saying roles instead, when it should be rolls =(
But autocorrect should only be correcting faulty typing 😳

@scenic zodiac you assume this isn’t a 7v7, and that the B-C would just recklessly pounce and expose itself like that🗿

Like… any other tank?

[drowsy plaza]

I got autocorrected… Didn’t catch one of them

[scenic zodiac]

Bourrasque is limited, it can only pick on targets that an isu or borsig can 1 shot, it can just pounce on a t54 lwt, deal 610, then get chased around for 18 secs to reload.
And get Russian HEd.

@real bison I would admit the speed is nice, but the acceleration is terrible, even with engine boost consumable and equipment, so you would reload faster than you reach your top speed most of the time.

@nimble zodiac that’s why it is limited, it has to pick its moments, when no one else would be looking.
Bourrasque can be more easily punished thanks to its lack of armour and poor acceleration.

[orchid grove]

This implies a 1v1. Most of them time you can just fire with relative impunity by just staying within the cover of your teammates

[real bison]

remember that neither the ISU or borsig can move like a bourrasque, and the LTWT may be a bona-fide LT hunter, but realise that I said that the bourrasque can choose its targets. Don’t like an engagement? Just retreat, relocate, and find a different target. You have the camo and speed to do so. You actually get to pick fights, unlike a certain tier X German MT. Plus you should have a team with at least half a brain cell, so leading a chasing LTWT into a teammate or 5 more is a good idea if they want to yolo you

even 2.5s intra wouldn’t balance it, most tanks aim fully slower, and considering you’re also fast, they may have to give lead

[scenic zodiac]

Ok, I’ll admit I probably messed up by saying bourrasque needs an alpha buff, I was pissed that I couldn’t finish off a 623 hp enemy (penned both shots, normal ammo).
But I feel it would make a world of difference to the tank.

Ngl the chances of WG touching bourrasque is as slim as them giving carro away for free.

It cost me the game, and a 7th ace, that’s the main reason I got mad.

[real bison]

so you lowrolled and got mad instead of knowing beforehand that the guy was essentially a coin toss if he died or not

[twilit crystal]

Borrasuq e is already broke and so is t77. I don't think people realize how good the t77 gun is

[nimble zodiac]

Pro-Tip: Don't let an unfortunate game make the premise of your balance suggestion

[real bison]

@scenic zodiac unlucky games happen

[tardy aurora]

Styer WT needs spall liner

[safe rapids]

No
More tanks don’t need to be noob proofed against HE
Lets people get away with stupid plays and also less fun for derp guns.

[main tulip]

get rid of spall altogether

[scenic apex]

I agree spall should be removed

But a alternative idea I would be open to is instead of taking less damage you could take less chance of all module damage except for tracks and gun

I would still rather have spall removed

[scarlet lily]

buff 30b

[tacit pelican]

Buff Amx 54

[proven drum]

Yes, it’s gun is dumb. The high heat pen combined with a 760dmg mag allows it to put trade any tier8 tank and most tier 9 tanks with decent dpm. Combine this with decent mobility and armour that t7 tanks can’t touch makes the tank insane

[scenic zodiac]

Let them if they want to.

It’s their choice.

[uneven narwhal]

Then stop asking

[unique scaffold]

No

[ionic pond]

Nerf lower frontal armor of Type 71, at least.
I am utterly annoyed that armor performance of Type 71 is far higher than a damn Maus, which has a lot of weak spots up front.

Type 71 has almost no weaknesses which can be used when firing at it from medium range. Even, average win-rate of Type 71 across all servers are 58%, compared to regular 50-52% on ALL HEAVY TANKS OF TIER 10

[sick phoenix]

They should buff Type71 alpha dmg

E-100 and VK got bigger damage

[uneven narwhal]

no

[scarlet fjord]

Sometimes corrects words for me too despite being spelled out correctly

[twilit crystal]

Nah it actually has garbage base heat. However cs makes up for it. Also it has really good gun handling

[proven drum]

I wouldn’t call 275 heat pen garbage

[twilit crystal]

250 is the base which is flat out garbage . 275 is workable

[scenic apex]

"we should buff Leo 1 damage, Jageroo does more damage"

[unique scaffold]

So...:
buff it HE alpha to 440, buff HE pen to 105
Buff premium round pen to 320, change premium round type to APCR
Buff engine power to 1000 hp
Give side skirt
?

[nimble zodiac]

That's crazy, no.

[unique scaffold]

I am aware what I suggest is crazy, although seeing that monster roaming the battlefield still be funny nonetheless
@uneven narwhal It wouldn't be funny? Beat fighting TVP at least

[uneven narwhal]

no
it wouldn't

[nimble zodiac]

Funny ≠ Balanced
Remember the goal here

[unique scaffold]

Yeah I know, my response was to the guy above with the intention of cooking up an abomination. Should have word it better next time
@unique scaffold I don't have T-22 right now, been a little too attach to STB-1 lol

[scenic apex]

Hahahaha

no.

[lean gate]

Day 70 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[upbeat sphinx]

Can Wg Nerf the kyros? That thing is way too op

[tacit pelican]

Your smart, if type 71 get Alpha buff, whole tank will become a tank that everyone are going to spam it. Japanese heavies especially type 71 only main good thing is the armour which is enough for the tank

[night geode]

show me some evidence that wg has ever listened to someone once
@orchid grove you replied to me, but why i got another cool down time? btw it got removed bcz wg wanted to remove it so thats not count

[orchid grove]

Missiles got removed

[night geode]

look at amx 30b, every creature on earth is begging for the buff

[nimble zodiac]

It’s just the channel cooldown time.

Anyways, missiles got removed due to the playerbase’s outrage about them being unfair to play against. WG nerfed them time and time again, and eventually decided to remove them because it’s an inherently unfair mechanic. If you’re so sure they removed them purely by their own decision, then why did they add them? I’m quite sure if it was a widely accepted mechanic, then WG would have been glad to keep their work in the game.

@willow hawk cuz it’s not a balance suggestion, bruh

[willow hawk]

Day who-knows-what of asking WG to add M60A3
(Idk why any moderator would delete a post like this. I just forgot what day it is)

[willow hawk]

Adding M60A3 to the game adds balance to the game 🧐. Adding WT auf E100 does not. 😉 <— that’s an opinion, not a fact.

Besides, this chain has been going all month and no one had a problem with it. @unique scaffold and I have been working on this push 😂

[winged barn]

That was complete chaos on all blitz related things. (Also rare parts, timers)

A single dude spamming isn't gonna do anything.

[willow hawk]

The spare parts thingy? The most useless currency ever. Those gray gear ⚙️ stuff = annoying.

Remember the old days where researching a tank module like gun or engine required a timer until it can be “researched” in addition to the xp and credits spent? And when M48 still had the cupola and 90mm gun?

[orchid grove]

Modules have never required a timer. But when spare parts first came out, to unlock equipment, you needed to wait, in addition to spending spare parts. Now that was pain.

[lean gate]

Im asking for rebalance the tank or back it as it was

[nimble zodiac]

Incomprehensible opinion. If one adds balance, there's no reason the other doesn't. At least, how I interpret it, M60A3 would be balanced to you, while WT won't

Besides, that's just adding a tank, you mention ZERO stats, which contributes nothing to any discussion of its balance

Also "Day # of useless suggestion" is being used more and more, plaguing this channel, so actions get taken

[neat crescent]

@orchid grove say, i already have the type 57 Mecha so which tank from the p2w event would be good to pick, lt432? Considering the t54 lwt was nerfed or the somua, wrong channel also on my part 🗿, wz122tm doesn't seem too appealing considering the similar tanks but being actual heavies that are available with more benefits as actual heavies instead of heaviums

[willow hawk]

Glad you think so! After all, I’m just here to annoy everyone and make a few folks feel that they are intellectually—or by any means—superior because they have a more reasonable or widely acceptable opinion!

[unique scaffold]

But changing to M60A3 mean just buffing turret front (especially the area around gun mantlet) while still keeping cupola weakspot? If WG insist on T95 medium style cupola then they can give some buff to accuracy and gun handling

[willow hawk]

I’d actually kinda like that idea but without the annoying cupola. Having the T95 /needle nose turret forces one to face directly towards the enemy. A little turn can expose the weak armor.

[unique scaffold]

As I am thinking about this, I think I like the idea of making M60 snapshot monster, T95E6 proved that WG can make that cupola work

[quick lichen]

It got removed due to massive public disgust for 6 months straight

[stuck acorn]

WG basically never listens to the community. There were only few cases when they actually did it and it required like at least half of a year of constant whinning on every possible forum by whole community. Only cases i remember now are spare parts and missiles

[quick lichen]

You’ve read this channel. If wg listened to the community we’d buff the smasher, buff the 183, add missiles, remove the 183, add arty, buff the maus to never get penned and add the type 5 heavy. The community feedback pulls in every possible direction that it’s 1, not even possible to follow it and 2, would leave the game in a state worse than Florida currently

[unique scaffold]

I can stand behind removing 183

[quick lichen]

If they took the time to create and actually utilize polls, we might be able to get somewhere if they were to work on game balance if it fits a general trend. Aka, rate tank _______ 1-5 and 70% give it a 1, maybe it should get a small buff to start out

[quick lichen]

Same

[ionic pond]

Statistically, type 71 has highest winrate out of all researchable tier 10 vehicles.

When will it get nerfed already? Such a big lie saying that they follow performance of tier 10 vehicles

[quick lichen]

It’s not a lie

If they nerf it two months from now they’d be following the performance charts

Just because it doesn’t happen as fast as you want doesn’t make it a lie

Usually it takes 2-3 updates to nerf a tank because they want it to sell… to make money… so the game can exist…

[ionic pond]

Yeah but it doesn't take a lot to see and understand that frontal armor of Type 71 is too great, without any large penetrable spots. Combined with excellent mobility, it outcompetes everyone. Maus nervously smokes on the side with his large weakspots up front

Many players like me and others don't want to spam gold shells just to be able to take it down from medium range.

Either increase number of weakspots on armor, or lower his mobility

[quick lichen]

It’s not about “taking a lot”, it’s about making money. It’s a rather simple thing to grasp. They don’t want it to be balanced yet

When the Minotauro comes out, you can expect the same. It will look a little extra shiny for the first 2-4 months and then be dialed back

Kranvagn, 60tp, yoh, m4, t22, 30b, ho ri, Foch, grille, Sheridan, t100, vickers are all examples of this…

[slender latch]

Type 71 is a tech tree tank everyone can get it how they make money off that lol?

[quick lichen]

Imagine if there was a way to grind the entire line instantly….

It only costs like 500-700k free xp and most people don’t have that… so they buy gold and convert

[slender latch]

IIRC you need elite xp, to get elite xp you need to play a tank. New accs can't buy elite xp rendering your gold useless.

[quick lichen]

You can instant upgrade tanks with gold

[slender latch]

I don't think instant upgrade wouldn't be needed since x2-x5 multiplier is given frequently

[unique scaffold]

Crates give freexp right? 💀

[quick lichen]

Buying 100% crew for gold

[leaden flare]

Buying crates for the tons of free exp to skip the line and then grind credits

[noble plover]

Quien me puede dar tips de como ahorrar dinero

[quick lichen]

English only

[shadow ivy]

A contradictory situation. I'm currently in the burning mod. been with my T32. One opponent had the Action X, which was armored as red from the front as a Tiger II. By the way, I also own an Action X and I know what a tomato box that is. My question: what did the enemy do to have such strong armor?

[real bison]

any screenshots?

[tacit pelican]

This is why WG needs to recruit new moderators who can speak multiple languages

[autumn zodiac]

I can understand most Spanish that's as can Fishy, that's not the issue here.

This server is English and only English

And it will remain that way

[gleaming patrol]

Dont complain i dont like to fight a Type 71 too but i just do and if u dont like the Type 71 just play Ho Ri because against td's the Type 71 has not so good armor and if u dont want to spam gold sheels then u play the wrong game

[lean gate]

Day 71 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[real bison]

yes the tank class equipped with guns meant to go through armour goes through armour

[orchid grove]

Have you tried hiding the hull, and/or using gun depression?

[vague flare]

when give t62a 10° of gun dep

[shadow ivy]

Well, it's not armored all over, but other tanks aren't either

[spark geode]

that's a normal action x
-Also please buy premium ammo, I've lost so many games because some doofus couldn't pen a tiger 2's lower plate or something because they only had ap shells.

[real bison]

massive lower plate is why you get penned so much, plus anything with more than 230mm pen can somewhat pen your turret roof

[shadow ivy]

ok thank you

[willow hawk]

Well, they did nerf the type 71’s speed and engine power after the tech tree was released, if that counts for anything at all.

[feral juniper]

wargaming, for the love of god PLEASE revert the tvp to its old state

[upbeat sphinx]

does anyone find the obj 260 redundant? I can't find a reason to play it now that the e6 has been buffed, and chieftain and wz 113 exist

[main tulip]

everyone pretty much agrees it's a pretty bad tank atm

[quick lichen]

More mobile 113 but sacrifices way too much for a slight advantage

[willow hawk]

Pointless to have a pike nose if ya can’t use it

[quick lichen]

It’s used for aerodynamics

[nimble zodiac]

That’s scary.

252U just abuses autorico, though 130mm is pretty thick for an auto-rico plate

[willow hawk]

I’m sure, if they give it stronger pike nose armor similar to IS7 and 252U, it’d be a fairly strong tank.

Well, what I meant was, the two upper plates would be strong (how strong is another matter to be discussed) and a weak lower triangular plate.

[iron violet]

Why did they nerf the wt so badly. You can't even brawl like it is classed as.

[willow hawk]

If this is sarcasm, ok 😂
If this is really what it stands for, I’m not so sure if the WT was ever meant for brawling. It was a backseat gunner with lethal high-hp shots. Now it went from something worthy to be scared of to some sort of a nuisance on the battlefield.

[iron violet]

It was listed on blitz stars site for tanks stats as a brawler and something else. For what it was best used for. And yea it wasn't op before but now it's way under power for crew dying almost every shot you receive in it and it's top roll is lower then before also speed is down and hull traverse is slower. They literally nerfed it into the ground, also it's a tech tree tank should be better then premium tanks

[scenic apex]

WT brawling? 🤣

How can any of the guns brawl at all, especially with 0 armor

Waffle is ment to snipe or just slap people for 600 now
It’s still kinda strong despite the alpha nerf

[iron violet]

Yea it's just sad that nerfed it it was my favorite tank and after 1500+ battles with it then it's nerfed like that it's hard to use. Part of why I stopped playing for a long time.

At least they updated this. Used to be good at 1v1 brawling

[fickle light]

WG trolling

[main tulip]

M46 Patton looks absolutely atrocious on paper and I wanna say it should be buffed, but I'm performing super well in it for some reason

[main tulip]

Maybe at least buff the premium pen though, because it's worse than Pershing's for some reason

[uneven narwhal]

You seriously refer to that lmao?

[iron violet]

@uneven narwhal that was just a reference, but yea they nerfed everything. Now it needs a buff. I'd rather they buff the reverse a bit and put the hull traverse back, also the w/r for it in the last 90 days dropped severely

[granite pebble]

It's versatile, isn't anything special but doesn't have anything it's really bad at, and of which, versatility is something a lot of players ignore when thinking about a tank. Panther 8.8 is a prime example of this, it's nothing special but it's not inherently bad at anything at all. Just an average tank with good gun stats that allows someone to do well in if they know what they're doing

[main tulip]

M46 defnitely has bad pen, bad armor, and rather poor mobility considering the bad armor
The only things it really has going for it compared to other mediums is DPM (very marginal) and 10 degrees of gun depression

[granite pebble]

I mean it has 20hp/t , best in tier gun handling, good terrain resistance, good gun depression, good view range, if it had any more pen stats or top speed the thing would be busted

[main tulip]

The power/weight is hindered by its poor terrain resistance, in terms of effective pw/weight it is only superior to the E50 (which has a much higher top speed and better armor), and the T54E1 (which has an autoloader and is kinda supposed to be slow, being classed as a heavy on PC even)

It also has basically worst in class top speed at 48, soooo yeah

[main tulip]

I mean we already have the type 61 which is basically the same thing but with more pen, is that busted?

most players you face aren't smart enough to shoot HE at the type, and it's only the sides/rear that can be HE'd anyway.
Raw pw/weight literally does not matter, only effective pw/weight does, and the type is better on medium terrain, which is by far the most common type of terrain.
It admittedly does have worse gun handling, but it's only by 0.01 on the move/rotate, and it makes up for that with its superior accuracy and aim time

Mobility on soft terrain is a pretty worthless stat, and the M46 is one of the worst on medium terrain, only being better than the E50 and T54E1 as aforementioned

[granite pebble]

I mean Type 61 is an HE magnet with worse P/WT and not much better terrain resistance, with the type 61 only being better in medium terrain and being quite a bit worse in soft terrain and slightly worse gun handling and an arguably worse turret due to having an apartment complex on the top of it's turret.

Better premium pen is deserved, but I don't see much point in increasing it's base pen when it doesn't inherently struggle with getting angles to make it's pen work and it also doesn't have to worry about getting HE'd by other mediums and even light tanks, and no I dont mean the sheridan line either.

Edit: Also even despite the worse terrain resistance, the M46 still has decent average PW/T and even has relatively good PW/T in soft terrain in comparison to other mediums

[willow hawk]

My first line to ever research was the Patton line. After struggling so hard with the 90mm gun and finally getting the 105, everything seemed like bliss. But that was back in 2015/16.
We got a lot more tanks now, and I don’t see why the M46 deserved a gun elevation nerf. In fact, I don’t see why it wasn’t buffed. Gun penetration, handling, DPM. It already lacks armor.

[main tulip]

It didn't deserve to get the 105mm derp gun removed either ;-;

[unique scaffold]

Opinions on t100 Lt ? I believe it needs the DPM back...

(Only that of the 2nd nerf not the first too)

[pallid nest]

I think it is still quite good, but it didn't need nerf to both armor AND dpm. Would've been enough to nerf one aspect.

I would have preferred if they just lowered alpha to 280, like some ruski guns already have, and keep the same dpm. Would have made it more unique. We already have more than enough 310dmg guns in ruski meds. 280dmg with high dpm, quick reload, amazing on the move accuracy and okay pen would have made the tank fun and unique.

I miss having some t10 that has low alpha, like 200-250, but very high dpm. Like a t10 Caern AX

[broken delta]

WG pls buff T28 prototype front turret armor or speed pls
It seem just kinda bad HT

[unique scaffold]

Do you guy think Object 704 need a buff or rebalance? I don't face it as much as Conway

[scarlet fjord]

It's not busted anymore and Sheri is better now but it's still alright gets troll ricochets

[stuck acorn]

well said

[feral juniper]

when is the e3 going to be nerfed?? most broken td to ever enter the face of this game, v4 on steroids, literally unpenetrable with no weakspots. PLEASE NERF THE ARMOR

[coarse carbon]

It’s called skill issue

[stuck acorn]

git gud

[feral juniper]

“git gud” look at your profile and then that you just said

[nimble zodiac]

Well you said “no weakspots”
That’s quite false 🤷‍♂️

[pure sand]

1. Lower plate exists
2. V4 on steroids?? I thought V4 was the one on steroids 😂

[coarse carbon]

Agreed, I think V4 is stronger, especially with decent traverse and 20kmh reverse speed, makes it the fastest reversing td in tier X. Comparing to 12 or 10 on e3 which makes it poor sometimes

[feral juniper]

most e3 players with a winrate above 45 will know to hide their lower plate

also imo the v4 is much easier to pen especially frontally, if you run calibrated on many heavies you can pen that middle plate, and especially when they angle the cabin on the top is very easy to pen

[nimble zodiac]

And if you run calibrated you can drill the massive cupola that E3 can’t practically hide

[brittle jay]

This is the actual first time i see someone calls e3 OP

[stuck acorn]

If you have around 340 of gold pen you can just go through it's huge hatch lmao. And i won't even mention that you just cripple it with HE by shooting it's roof for huge amounts of damage if you have 460alpha gun or more

Get good then lmao. With over 350 of pen you can just click at any point of the hatch except for that angled part at the top and it will auto pen

[winged barn]

M46 patton buff idea

Keep all of the gun stats exactly the same, except give it this look

Ez

Best tier 9 medium

[feral juniper]

you don’t even want to know how many 350+ pen tanks i play and everytime i shoot the hatch it NEVER PENS

[nimble zodiac]

Must’ve hit the wrong spot

[lean gate]

Day 72 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[feral juniper]

it’s weird because there’s like 1 gray sliver on the cupola and my gun can never hit it to save my life

[pallid nest]

MASSIVE skill issues there mate. E3 is full of weakspots. Sides are paper and get penned in tiny angles. Cupola is weak against gold if you have the neurons for aiming. And there is the viewport on the left, which anything will pen.
Lower plate is a joke and will get penned by everything either by AP or goldammo. IF you say there are no weakspots, that is absolutely false and a clear proof of skill issues.

Edit: I am not trying to insult, just stating facts.
If I wanted to insult, I would not waste an original one on you, you are not worth it. See? That was an insult.

[feral juniper]

use an original insult next time

[unique scaffold]

God’s work

[unique scaffold]

Nah he’s a little exaggerating but mostly right. Especially about the cupola. I believe the tank is fine but should have its cupola weakened in the very middle of the red tube. Apcr is still too tricky. It should be easier above 310 in the middle of the cupola and not only on Two ridiculously small side weakspots

[brittle jay]

Yea he's just trippin' considering the enterity of the tracks is a weakspot by itself, the traverse is low and the only strenght of the tank is the armor

[unique scaffold]

No the alpha is compensating for the accuracy

And still you underestimate the value of armor.

Take some tanks that give everything for armor, and how trashy their other stats are.

Maus
268/4
Minotauro

All three have worse armor profiles than E3, around same speed except for 268, but Maus is slower.

All three have worse guns and accuracies.

See ?

And it also has engine boost.

Seen by someone that doesn't own and play Maus or 268/4 yes the E3 is normal. But seeing how valuable armor generally is and how much most tanks give out for it, while E3 is arguably frontally the best armor in the game because of the strongest cupola, yes E3 needs a slight armor nerf. The cupola should be apcr-able with more ease

[main tulip]

E3 is better than 268/4 by far

[distant river]

The E3s armour profile is definitely not better than the maus or the v4, I haven't looked at minotauro in detail but I expect it's the same.

E3 needs to be facing within 10° of anything it's facing otherwise it's sides are easy pen. It also needs to not be against 310mm+ pen otherwise it has cheek weakspots. It also needs to not be against accurate guns because of the cupola and 80mm viewport, so definitely not against accurate with decent HE

You are left with a armour profile that can't be wiggled to minimise it's weakspots and can't hold positions stationary except at long range.

[woeful lintel]

Feelings on the progetto 46 (I'm not one of these braindeadlings who just bought it, I've had it two years from a free event)

[brittle jay]

Bro not even true, minotauro has way more flexibility and a similar if not better armor profile, maus honestly needs a buff since a lot of equal tier heavies can pen easily, and 268 is pretty much the same as e3 but with a way better mobility
E3's only got FRONTAL armor and alpha

[turbid ice]

Just get the WZ-121 if you want 420 dmg

[willow hawk]

115 mm eh? That’s pretty close to 120, which deals around 400-500 per shot depending on tank.

I settle for 115mm = 370 avg hp per shot for a medium tank. Makes it unique.
But, I disagree that the 140 and 62A are similar at all. 140 is basically a light tank now, with weak armor. 62A has gun dep, armor, and decent disp.

[spice raptor]

Anyone want the 4005 to be back to it old stage? With 3 shells, 18s reload, 3s between shot? Anyone?

[willow hawk]

Nah, let’s just slap a 183mm gun on it

[spice raptor]

Bruh I literaly said that a while ago and I just get tagged as 🤡

[willow hawk]

Well, just imagine. A 183mm flyin across the map at 30-40km an hour, add the fire speed boost to that, with a rotating turret….whatcha get?

[spice raptor]

That what happen in WoT (not blitz)

[uneven narwhal]

We don't need another batch of 40%ers being more ineffective than physically possible, thank you very much

[willow hawk]

Difference here is, Blitz map is small, with fewer tanks. U get a mobile 183 that flies across the map…you end up with more toxic battle results. Good players will be flinging HESH shells dealing 1400 per shot left n right, while others will try to gun down anyone with a 4005. It’s just not healthy for the game.

[spice raptor]

So just bring it back to 8.9

[main tulip]

the hardest hitting 120 does 450, the hardest hitting 122 does 430, and the badger's 123mm does 460. Not sure where the 500 is coming from unless you're just referring to the max roll

The "!" is actually only when you max role with that one crew skill (forgot what it's called). If you max roll normally through sheer luck, it just looks like a normal roll

[willow hawk]

When you max roll, gives you a # followed by an exclamation mark,
Example: 525!

Spare me the details, im just simply saying a 120 is capable of doing around 400-500.
300 something if ya unlucky .

[magic estuary]

Hello

[unique scaffold]

I do

"Bro not even true, minotauro has way more flexibility and a similar if not better armor profile, maus honestly needs a buff since a lot of equal tier heavies can pen easily, and 268 is pretty much the same as e3 but with a way better mobility
E3's only got FRONTAL armor and alpha = that's false minotauro has two huge cupolas and an apcr able plate. It is actually WAY worse. I can't bully a t110e3 frontally with a progetto (gun rammer regular shell)"

But i can bully your minotauro any day.

Also, the Minotauro has pretty much the worst gun i could face.

That tank's balancing is a joke. The poor thing either needs a monumental buff either will be an underperforming and unfunny pile of inaccurate and easy-penetrable trash

I agree with the Maus tho

WZ-113 should have gotten a frontal armor buff along with the sides, it's just too inaccurate and depression lacking to be fair with it's current stats and profile

[gleaming patrol]

Tiger 1 gun Depression buff?

[unique scaffold]

You’re the clowns if you disagree with wz113. It’s ok but armor is just not usable enough. Bad depression, meh accuracy, bad penetration, good speed but way slower than before, huge weakspots for apcr on the turret, the tank is just outclassed sadly.
It needs a more efficient armor to do its job better

Wz113 needs love.

[slender latch]

IS-3 Defender also has a feature or bug that lets it use the 7° gun dep while aiming behind as of today

[quick lichen]

@unique scaffold @unique scaffold more freezing cold takes here I see. 113 has insane dpm. If you’re not reckless, you can trade hull armor for utilizing that dpm and farming easily. Also the gun is plenty accurate enough lol

[real bison]

almost every tank in tier 5 or 6 outmanoeuvres a TOG 2

it’s like a massive bomber plane vs agile interceptors

that or you group up on it, Arsenal Bird style

[lean gate]

Day 73 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[carmine spade]

Well the problem is that T-62 needs an armour remodel, cause it’s real gameplay’s based on a strong turret and little less mobility; obj little bit more mobility and less armour

[unique scaffold]

Tbh, the only thing I wish WG give back is it old accuracy. No idea why Obj 907 needed old T-62A accuracy though

[unique scaffold]

Game already balanced no need to change 👍👍👍👍👍

[queen oriole]

wargaming, pls buff armor on T-62a.

[real bison]

weird how said new players are taught that the weakest armour is on the sides and rear

if they ignored that, it’s their fault

[real bison]

weird.

[unique scaffold]

How come VK 36.01 H is any different?

[nimble zodiac]

Ah yes, the literal only gimmick of the tank

It’s easy to pen a TOG frontally, you just shoot the upper track.

Isn’t the point to learn? 🤦‍♂️

It’s not fair, that’s the whole point of tiers and types. A lower tier light should never confront a higher tier heavy. If you think that’s supposed to be fair, then I guess I’ll let you learn the hard way. Nevermind the STOCK gun light 🙄

[neat crescent]

Oh dear...

[winged barn]

It's a tier 5...
Oh wait. Tier 5 is the first tier that learning actually happens in now

[nimble zodiac]

I’ll know to avoid engaging a tank when it would be in a much more advantageous position than I am to use its qualities against me 🤷‍♂️

[unique scaffold]

If that TOG is bot, it won't kill little Jimmy

[upbeat sphinx]

I embraced your same challenge, started a f2p account two weeks ago. Tog 2 are nasty in tier 5 because meds have max 130mm of pen. So on the front they are almost impenetrable and you are forced either to spam gold shells(and lose credits if you dont have premium), or circle it but even at certain angles tog 2 can still hold quite decent.

[midnight linden]

Why are you fighting t6 heavies frontally in t5 lights

[gleaming patrol]

I have the Feeling you complain only about prem/collector first u say kryos should be baned from tour and now the Tog 2
Should every Premium or collector be removed or what?

[upbeat sphinx]

are you able to read? I just made a comment not proposed anything. Don't put words in my mouth.

[stuck acorn]

5.5 moment

[distant river]

Tfw the difference between 50 and 100 battles impacts the whole game

[pure sand]

kain moment

[quick lichen]

I’m telling you, it does not belong here

Take your win and go

[mystic gorge]

Average blitz official interaction

[quick lichen]

Reading is hard

[bronze fossil]

how about before balancing any vehicle, you balance your mm?

[quick lichen]

Hey buddy, read the pinned messages

[midnight linden]

Nonetheless drive around it, you’re in a light and you can out maneuver it, or even better, just leave it behind and go find somewhere else to put shots into the enemy. Why are you fighting with the heavies frontally in a light anyways?
I did good sir, you realize Tog has no mobility yes?
From what I read, you’re implying that you’re facing it head on and just sitting still in it’s path

[stray pivot]

On the TOG II bot, i kinda agree
I have played some games in newbie mm and i can conclude that for whatever reason, TOG 2 bots are very aggresive. They just kept charging you and tunneling

Like, the TOG is not great. You can outmaneuver and kill it easily. But imagine every single TIME, for whatever reason the bots playing the tog decided to tunnel you and charge you. You can outmaneuver it but it's not worth doing so because you're wasting time trying to kill it meanwhile the other enemy bots are still trying to kill you. So the best thing i did was trying my best avoiding these boats.

And tunneling i meant, really tunneling. Idk what's up with this like it somehow see a player and decided to ignore everything else, ignore your team, and just you, it'll charge and won't stop till it can't get you

[lean gate]

Day 74 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[quasi burrow]

I’m kinda annoyed about the fact that when you first get the tiger 2, the reload time is extremely slow. When I first got it, I could barely get a single kill because I take so long to reload. Just to make it less time to reload, I spent around 10k for each match for stuff that reduces the reload speed.

[quick lichen]

This is true of all stock tanks and 50% crews

[quasi burrow]

I actually wrote a review about it and the devs responded.

[quick lichen]

My point still stands

[unique burrow]

Why you didn‘t buyed just the 75% crown… yes it cost I think 100k or more believe (idk, what it was), but it would make they the tank at least play abale

[pure sand]

imagine playing stock tanks

[quick lichen]

Some stock grinds are worse than others but every single tank that’s stock, 50% crew and no equipment is far worse than when it’s maxed out

[unique scaffold]

It’s part of the game. You need to try to balance your economy so have you enough fxp when you research the tank to upgrade modules, at least the important ones. Sometimes if you’re desperate you might just buy it stock and then grind for the modules, you’ve got no one to blame but yourself for the pain though. Same goes for crew training, 75% crew for me is just a part of the tank cost, I never play a 50% crew tank, you’re limiting yourself severely if you do. Premiums are extremely easy to come by nowadays, you should have at least a tier VI to help with credits

[pure sand]

I mean why would you desperately buy a stock tank when you can actually grind xp for the modules before you can buy it?? 😂

[unique scaffold]

Doesn’t matter I sold it, back to playing type 71. I got it you don’t want balance here. I got all tier 10’s. I can play the meta ones;
I agree wz 113 is good but for example on subjects like the Maus it is seriously a shame that we couldn’t reach a consensus. If you ain’t able to agree in 5 mins that the Maus is in dire need of a nice buff then you’re simply not objective.

That’s a shame because that’s what we should do, identify which tanks need the most buffing and recklessly asking wg for it. @lean gate is doing this godly work on the poor progetto that never deserved any accuracy nerf.

We should do that work from the Maus.
I agree I was wrong and it’s not a consensus about wz 113, or even is 4 or idk what slightly boring tank, but we should help our dear Maus. If we unite, wg will read and realize.

[nimble zodiac]

The pen is fine 🤔
I’d consider it being APCR more of an issue, I guess. But WZ-113 can’t be such a DPM machine and a heavy tank without some sacrifices

@unique scaffold having a low profile doesn’t make 6 degrees good to hulldown with

[brittle jay]

yea tell that to me who tested it

[unique scaffold]

Wait people say 113 needs a buff? Pffff. Also complaining about gun dep? It’s got 6 degrees, considering it’s got a decently low profile that’s plenty to hull down, have you never gone hull down with 6 degrees? It’s a very good med killer, upper plate is decent to brawl with, and you can out DPM them since they have to use prammo. Turret is strong vs meds. Speed is good especially since the traverse buff.

[empty scroll]

Not all tanks need armor. Some tanks need effort on the player's part to make it work. I don't have the 113 but i have fought with decent players who use the 113 correctly using its goddamn troll tracks and front plate

[obsidian notch]

dayyum bro you still got the dedication

[native bloom]

let's start the discussion about the amx 30B, for me the tank needs a DPM buff since it was added to the game, so I would be interested in the opinion of other players ?

[real bison]

give it a DPM buff and you make the Leo 1 more irrelevant. I'd personally rebalance the Leo 1 more to what WG thinks its role should be: a sniper, which it cant do due to lacking alpha and pen. Buff the pen and damage of the Leo 1, and only then can you buff the AMX 30B with some much needed DPM

[native bloom]

the leopard has a better cannon op consumables and a higher alpha so I think that if the 30B had a reload of around 6.0s it wouldn't affect the leopard much imho

[nimble zodiac]

Oh yeah MASSIVE difference 🙄

255mm AP is actually pretty nice, at least for a medium

[quick lichen]

What are you talking about? I absolutely want good balance lol. That’s why I’m anti type 5

[vestal kayak]

Let's dicuss the smasher

[drowsy plaza]

@native bloom the 30B trades the gun for a very effective turret. The tumor is a non issue due to the mobility. The DPM is the balancing feature.

[drowsy plaza]

Let’s not. It and the Anni are examples of how not to balance. My only hope is the tier X reworks trickle down to 7 and they get reworked into less than ridiculous.

[unique scaffold]

I truly hope that WG finally get through to rebalance those "collector"

[chilly token]

Yeah, a tier 7 reloading faster than a tier 10 when having the same caliber is an issue (vk72). Lets make it 560/480/640 instead of 640/545/960

[unique scaffold]

Type 5 could be balanced in blitz but that’s not the question now balance all current X

It can lol, see it is currently underpowered in pc so I don’t see how that should necessarily be overpowered ???

Lol one more reason, all op tanks from pc going to blitz have generally become pretty bad or balanced, example the trash can 268/4 or the soon to be trash can minotauro.

We have Maus without having arty which is basically a type 5. I believe type 5 would do a great Christmas tank someday if they manage to make it good enough. If it is as bad as on pc it’ll be meh. They could give it another gun choice to have the meme gun and the balanced gun

[quick lichen]

It’s can’t be and it’ll never come here. Next

This isn’t pc

We don’t have arty

We don’t have half the tier x’s they do

[nimble zodiac]

Ah, so you believe the Type 5 will be underpowered? Sounds not balanced, as ^ claimed

[unique scaffold]

Anyone better than me please help understand why WG just powercreep T-54's D-10T2C gun? May as well just remove it
(Also T-55A buff when?)

[native bloom]

@drowsy plaza your argument would make sense if the stb 1 wasn't in the game, which basically has everything better than the amx 30 b, it has better dpm, better armor, and that's only for a reduced maximum speed of 5 km/h

[unique scaffold]

No but I believe that we could balance it as wg made it both overpowered and underpowered already in pc. Like there’s no absolute limit making that tank forcefully impossible to balance, it’s just a Maus with an he deep gun, you use he splash to make high exploding damage and your regular shell is heat with a -30% dmg, that’d be fun and fair considering it has the same weakness as the Maus (Very weak to premium shell)

[nimble zodiac]

They made it both OP and UP, perhaps because they can't find the right balance for its stats?

What do you think the stats should be?

Clearly The Mk. I Heavy needs a nerf

[quick lichen]

Can we stop talking about hypothetical balance for a tank that isn’t even being considered for the game?

There’s plenty of tanks in the game that you can discuss. Let’s stick to that

[slender latch]

If pneumatic suspension gets added I hope it could be an equipment type or consumable

[turbid ice]

Maus is fine

[drowsy plaza]

You forgot Worse dispersion and worse pen. And it’s 9km slower with worse Eff Power to Weight.

[willow hawk]

T-54 just got a lil stronger…💪
I might get it back

[unique scaffold]

Now DPM gun on T-54 got powercreep hard, why WG?

[turbid ice]

You should, it’s one of my favorites tier 9

[quick lichen]

How? It has 130+ more dpm and better gun handling for 19 less mm of pen

[unique scaffold]

D-54 compare with D-10T2C

[turbid ice]

Who even use D-10T2C anyways ?

[willow hawk]

Me, it’s the one with higher pen, right?

[smoky cedar]

I would pick that accuracy over the 40 dpm any day

[unique scaffold]

I was 😢
@willow hawk D-10T2C was the higher PDM gun, now D-54 have both DPM and pen
@smoky cedar I brawl a lot in T-54, so accuracy doesn't matter as much

[turbid ice]

Nope, it’s D-54 with the higher pen
@smoky cedar I can see why
@unique scaffold I see, I never used D-10T2C so…

[willow hawk]

I just remember which ever gun has higher pen, that’s the one I use always XD

[ebon stump]

i think wg should buff the chieftain mk.6 next time, the chieftain mk.6 is not strong enough for that 20000 price

[unique scaffold]

The thing is, even before the update, if you cared about DPM then you could actually run the D 54 with rammer, and still have higher AP pen than the other one with CS, of course you could run rammer on the D 102 but pen is pretty bad. Only thing is you didn’t have high HEAT pen, if you wanted 300 HEAT pen with better DPM then yes the D 102 was an option. Only other thing was dispersion, it’s better on the D 102 by a fair bit, but it’s a brawling tank anyway. IMO the guns were pretty balanced before this change, personally I prefer the higher pen gun, but for better players the other one was a decent option. Now the D 54 has higher DPM, which basically makes the D 102 almost completely obsolete, literally only better dispersion, but you sacrifice a fair bit to get that, and as I say it’s a brawling tank, on move dispersion accuracy is similar for both guns I believe, and aiming time is better on the D 54. WG should now buff the D102 gun to perhaps 0.288 dispersion, just to give a real incentive to use it.

[unborn robin]

What is the best tank in Tier V-VI?

[obsidian notch]

imagine playing tier V-VI

[unique scaffold]

Tier V I would say T1 heavy. Tier VI I’m not too sure, probably Kryos. That’s not a tech tree though. For tech tree maybe Arl 44, M6 is easy to play

[real bison]

one of the most balanced tier 10s and you want it buffed

the only 2 major things it needs are a more consistent turret and better engine power

[scarlet fjord]

Although most of that is true don't view that extra 5km h as only that because 30B accelerates faster than light tanks

[spice raptor]

Hey guys, which is better? T62A or OBJ.140?

[unique scaffold]

Pretty equal I would say. Go T62a first though cause it’s far easier to play

[unique scaffold]

I wish it prammo pen is better, 310 now doesn't cut it for E100 turret
And buff HE pen to 120

[nimble zodiac]

Price shouldn’t be a factor of balance

[jade cargo]

Banane#7366 has been warned.

[safe rapids]

Both are awesome tanks, but if you’re newer and want something more like a T-54, go for the 62A. 140 has insane potential but it’s much trickier to use.

[solar elk]

It is necessary to improve the dynamics, armor, penetration and accuracy of the Object 268/4

[quick lichen]

What is this based off of?

[unique scaffold]

i think he wanted to say decrease

I’ve heard people argue it’s both OP and trash. I would say the V4 is actually pretty balanced, it should probably be left alone

[solar elk]

@quick lichen I have it in the hangar, and this is my personal opinion
The cannon has a large spread, it forces you to play from the first line. But playing on the first line, you are punched in the cheeks of the wheelhouse and in the commander's turret

[coarse carbon]

If you think obj 268/4 needs a buff bc it’s bad: it’s called serious skill issue @unique scaffold I own it, same as all tier X collectors, don’t worry. If you think it’s bad and deserves buff: get good

[unique scaffold]

Says a boy that doesn’t own it. Anyways the point was the Foch, here I delete do you can consider the point

[prisma jetty]

I owned the V4, sold it because it was boring though. It’s fine as is, you have to directly face your opponents otherwise the armor falls apart. Mobility and gun stats are what you pay for having high alpha and strong armor 🤷‍♂️

[lean gate]

Day 75 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[willow hawk]

They must be waiting until you hit day 100 to make it happen, just for stz and giggles 🤭

[humble depot]

Bruh literally said he owns it

[unique scaffold]

Sold it too it’s bad

As for German tanks I like how balanced the meds are. None of them are disappointing. They are all enjoyable. They are all balanced and fair. E50M was a little off before because it aimed way too good: they took some accuracy and reduced the alpha to 340. Leo was a little off because it would be too squishy compared to the damage it would do: they made it a very enjoyable 360 alpha med that compensates squishiness by huge dpm.
Kpfz, instead of being op at release as some speculated, is the absolute medium, having a little of speed, depression, decent armor, good dpm, meh accuracy.

[coarse carbon]

Definitely skill issue

[unique scaffold]

German meds are so well balanced we should base all other meds on their system. Different, enjoyable, competitive. Let’s tweak the alphas a little more.
Give some love to 121b which doesn’t even need those super consumables. Rather give it some better raw mobility or armor idk.
30b hatch.
Obj 140 +1° of gun depression to fill the new role
T 100lt dpm disappointing but changes are not necessary. I would keep te reload times and add 10 alpha like Leo, to make it 320 and a little more relevant and unique
That’d be nice already.

Anyways point was never change German meds they are just what balance means many weaknesses many tweaks to reach perfection of balance. Thanos 9.1 would be proud.

[real bison]

nah Leo 1 is an overshadowed tank even with its alpha buff

[unique scaffold]

I agree German meds are pretty well balanced and interesting. Well can’t say about 121B, Mayo the other day was making a case for it being one of the best. Obj 140 I think is pretty good, just not easy to play. Has the highest effective HP/T in tier ten on medium and hard terrain. T100 is very solid IMO, don’t think it needs an alpha buff.

[coarse carbon]

I only think 30B is just… meh. It needs definitely some love, DPM 3k as a base would be perfect, it’ll have around the same dpm as STB1. I love the tank and I love playing it, but it’s a bit off comparing to my KPZ 50 or basically any other medium. And I think WZ 121 is the ultimate medium. It has goated alpha, yes you have to aim your shots, but this instant aim, bruh… and lovely power to weight ratio, great mobility… only thing is a weak ammo rack

[quick lichen]

It was wicked strong in testing but it got nerfed a bit each time it was re tested and eventually it became meh and it’s just stayed that way sadly

[prisma jetty]

121B is fine as is, 140 is already pretty strong, no need to buff it, T-100 is balanced finally, don’t change it.

[unique scaffold]

I agree e50m is balanced perfectly, kpfz too, but i personally find Leo extremely strong.
I really understand fatness when he calls it it's fav tank. You got the best accuracy, the best DPM, the best speed, it really deserves that very he-able profile and lack of turret armor. I think since the 360 alpha it is perfectly balanced too, although yes it's a little hard to play because other meds will confront you into a DPM versus armor battle which you won't be able to escape.

The real strength is the penetration. Along with the +5% pen crew skill (not calibrated shells, always run rammer), you easily have more than 260 of standard pen which is magic with the accuracy.

You're kind of supposed to snipe. Classically a tank that would be good to play if the maps were bigger. I really hope they release a 10 vs 10 on maps 3 to 4 times bigger than Canyon or Factory someday, so that most paper tanks can get more use. Too often you have to go into medium brawl and get stupidly killed because of that suicide progetto/Sheridan or that little op tvp giving you 1300 without any of your mates actually reacting

[real bison]

most tier Xs can simply go hulldown and the Leo 1’s “advantage” of pen is gone

plus it’s only 10 more than the weakest MT pen at tier 10 soo

[sick phoenix]

They done Centurion MK.5/1 Dirty with it's 190 alpha

[nimble zodiac]

It’s still a great tank

[inland smelt]

#buffthetype71

[wind flower]

Dingo is pretty much immune when hulldown. if it gets alpha buff its gonna break the backs of everything trying to assault it's hulldown position

[unique scaffold]

^^^its lacklustre alpha is fine due to the turret, can sit hull down and farm with impunity.

[timber plank]

Buff 215b183 precision and aiming time and type71

@unique scaffold e50m isnt balanced.. good dpm, strong armor.. we cant penetrat his front turret same with gold shells

@unique scaffold i play only meds and light tanks.. and only vicker with calibrated shell can pen with gold.. kranv havnt mibility and t22 avent dépression

[unique scaffold]

You can pen with the majority of gold shells, only thing is tier ten meds without CS won’t pen if it’s hull down properly. Not a super problematic turret though, and since when does a decent turret make a tank imbalanced? Look at Kran, or t 22 med for a medium tank.

I hope that’s a joke about the 183 accuracy.

What? I also play mainly meds and lights, and trust me it’s a pen on flat ground. Hull down with CS it’s still a pen. You need to aim for the cheeks obviously.

[inland smelt]

the 183 and type buff is all a joke lmao

[hushed crag]

strv k cannot release just like that

[nocturne rapids]

It's the Christmas tank

[unique scaffold]

*Possibly

[unique scaffold]

Carro 45t

[slender latch]

Plot twist it will be the collector IS-7 that'll release for christmas

[sick phoenix]

Aren't Strv K supposed to be tier 9

[leaden flare]

Carro is more likely the Christmas tank strvk won't get released this quickly

[unique scaffold]

It is perfectly balanced. I will die on that hill. The gun was hugely nerfed to compensate for the armor which is easily pennable on the sides of the turret, even with a medium using ap, or with apcr on the frontal turret. It is a balanced tank with many pros and many cons.
You are literally lying about the front turret and should delete your comment in shame. The sides of the turret are showed frontally and can easily be penned even at a very steep angle. When on flat ground 300 mm apcr butters through the turret too. It show it a little red and as you are a beginner you thought it meant the turret was impenetrable but you actually should shoot and see how easily it will pen.
It also has a cupola as if all of that wasn’t enough.

Also, my lying friend, check how it is the closest German tank to perfect balance (50%) on blitzstars. It is a marvel of an extremely balanced yet enjoyable tank, an example to follow.

[timber plank]

Ok.. if you say, i trust in you

[unique scaffold]

The Christ approuvés of your well placed trust

Btw Christmas tank is carro 45t. The strv k will release differently. Christmas tanks are tier X.

Which is the best?

[timber plank]

Carro is the Christmas tank? ...

[lean gate]

Day 76 of asking wg to bring back first states to prog65 "update 6.3"

[silver sedge]

Maybe the Strv K is the Christmas tank. But nobody knows it right now :/

[wraith valve]

Get the t34 85 good armor good speed and average dpm and cant be he so easily like from kv2 or su152

[unique scaffold]

Thanks

[unique scaffold]

Absolutely needed since carro is actually going to completely overshadow it. Make it an accurate and decent dpm tanks make it relevant

[unique scaffold]

Is Kranvagn tech is worth to grind?

[prisma jetty]

StrvK is a tier 10, so it could technically be the Christmas tank if WG wanted it to be

[unique scaffold]

Oh didn’t know that. Will it be Swedish or Brit ? How could they possibly balance a kranvagn/centurion mashup at tier X ? It’ll look fun but if it has the armor profiles and stats from both it’ll struggle, even if the turret was fully red I hardly see an interest. Eager to find out what it means then

[quick lichen]

Good lord. Wait for it to come out first 🙄

[spice raptor]

Hey, Is grinding TVP line is a good choice?

[unique scaffold]

Remove 4005s shell boost, its broken

[obsidian notch]

looks like you have skill issue

[pulsar stag]

hell yeah, i like TVP a lot, it's currently meta tank

[spice raptor]

It is very effective, like how i use against a T57 Heavy, but it have a very high cost if it doesnt exist, that T57 will still be dead

[upbeat sphinx]

day 1 of asking to give obj 260 improved vertical stabilizer/improved suspension