Politics

[white pier]

my parents are gonna be so confused

[warped barn]

Right is Vlaams Belang right?

[white pier]

extreme right yes

[warped barn]

Some statements are good 🤷

[white pier]

[warped barn]

Against our own government so its not that bad

The fact ACID might end up getting bigger sentence

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/706235188778369034.webp?size=48

[white pier]

they responded yesterday

[white pier]

for the people who are interested in reading a text the size of the bible

[queen marsh]

Oh jesus

Why did I even bother reading the first few sentences

Did they get some intern to write that?

[white pier]

probaly

got it from their info centre

it would be WAY longer if i asked about flanders and wallonia

i should send a thank you mail

[queen marsh]

Yeah you should

At the very least for them taking their time to do it

[white pier]

yeah

and they wished me succes for my further studies 🙏

[queen marsh]

How kind of them!

[white pier]

they were gonna send a free info packet to my house but something with my adress didnt work sadly

[queen marsh]

I made the mistake of reading slightly further in and that was a mistake. What an infuriating document

[queen marsh]

Thank goodness

Let’s hope they don’t send a representative

[white pier]

my local part of them didnt respond

[white pier]

have you even gotten to the religion part?

[queen marsh]

I had to stop at calling immigration “importing poverty” because I could feel my blood pressure rising 😅

[white pier]

understandable

"we stand up for european civilisation, which is partly founded on our continent's christian past" my favourite part of the religion part 💀

[queen marsh]

I—

[white pier]

if them and the other right get in power independce is probaly certain

and i will be moving to the netherlands if independence happens

[quick coral]

Me when eu territory of brussels😍

[white pier]

lovely 🙏

[warped barn]

Thats uhm, to long

[white pier]

[warped barn]

I don't want to read 5K characters

My brain hurts already, so no reading

[obtuse spade]

Thank you for making me hate my own country.

[cinder sundial]

The second gop debate 😐

[proud kelp]

And just barely; the United States does not go into shutdown

[severe musk]

Luckily

I heard Jamaal Bowman pulled a fire alarm..

McCarthy compared it to January the 6th

[proud kelp]

The audacity

[lost fiber]

Tories suck I hate them

[severe musk]

agreed

[cinder sundial]

Fr it’s crazy rn 💀 then again I think that this is all I can really expect at this point

Also I originally failed to mention the first gop debate— that was a shitshow as well ._.

[fading ravine]

im so angry about the way the uk government is using people’s transphobia as a way to distract the electorate from their own disgusting failure of the uk. it’s just so fucking wrong i genuinely feel sick.

trans siblings, you are loved. fuck the tories

[lost fiber]

me and @sharp surge are listening to a song called fuck tories 💀

[lost fiber]

it's so harmful I'm genuinely quite scared

[sharp surge]

oml haha exposing us

[lost fiber]

nothing wrong with being anti tory

[sharp surge]

way tooo true

[lost fiber]

Facs

Facts

[sharp surge]

yesss

[deft jasper]

hellur

[lost fiber]

rishi sunak is a rat faced bad word

[deft jasper]

sage why does ur name say the even older hag when ur the only hag

[neat blade]

by being the only hag i'm also the oldest

[lost fiber]

exactly

[deft jasper]

see there’s only one hag

[neat blade]

wanna know my fav band

[deft jasper]

sure?

knew it

i like the song

it’s my first song

[tough swallow]

This language isn't okay here.

Please tone it down and refrain from posting links that use insulting language.

[deft jasper]

fr

[tawny token]

nigel farage

[thick sundial]

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGJwDcEnv/

This is a very important message to all Americans in here x

Basically America is screwed bc in the next election if trump wins basically if u don’t look like a member of the bloody Brady Bunch and r married and straight and cisgender then u will basically be shunned and attacked

So they going back like 100 years in rights

Yeah

So basically white privileged men have to marry white women and then treat them however they want bc women can’t do anything about it and u can’t be urself

But it’s also bad if u vote for Biden bc he isn’t doing much for human rights either - not to mention climate change

Just look up project 2025

Yeah

So basically we screwed af

But pls get the word out so we can try and stop this and at least have Biden over trump (lesser of 2 evils)

But better yet someone else entirely like Taylor Swift

[dusty imp]

The likelihood of someone other than those from the two major parties is soooo slim because of the voting system. You don't even have to get majority, you just have to get the most. Also because of the non-compulsory voting, its incredibly difficult (from what I understand) for people to actually participate, its incredibly sided to white, rich people.

[lost fiber]

cilla black for pm

surprise surprise

don't like her politics but we should have surprise surprise as an announcement on the radio

[neat blade]

US House Speaker;

Bans same-sex marriage
Encourages conversion therapy
Bans all abortion fully

Says all women should produce 1 working child

[white pier]

why are you saying like it already happened those things?

[neat blade]

sorry let me fix

Wants to ban same-sex marriage
Wants to encourage conversion therapy
Wants to do a whole ban on abortion
Says all women should produce 1 child

[white pier]

also the american fertility rate is already 1.64

and encouraging people to have kids isnt a bad thing if done right because our standard of living is high we have lower fertility rates and if they continue to drop we can end up with a japan situation where you can up in a dangerous cycle where the economy goes down

[quick coral]

I feel like we should acknowledge that US republicans only have extremely bad ways of encouraging ppl to have kids💀

[white pier]

true

[queen marsh]

Also, they encourage people to have them but won’t fund their education or childcare/healthcare 🫠

[white pier]

thats a downside yeah 🫠

[quick coral]

Exactly

[quick coral]

Also, it doesn't seem like even heavily encouraging having kids (through positive measures without force) works too much

The number one reason for not having kids in finland is financial or other insecurity

The world feels fucked and ppl don't wanna have kids

[proud kelp]

So you're telling me a former Prime Minister, who isn't even a current elected Member of Parliament can suddenly be installed as Foreign Secretary of the United Kingdom?

All on the back of a reshuffle where the outgoing Foreign Secretary is rightfully removed from the role

[ashen valley]

He was given a peerage (he's now a Baron for life) which allows him to serve on the cabinet

He's also actually qualified for the role which makes a change compared to all other Tory MPs at the minute

[ashen valley]

Home secretary*

[white pier]

who is the new one?

[proud kelp]

Oh whoops

[ashen valley]

Suella Braverman was the Home secretary, she was removed for basically being a Nazi, and was replaced by James Cleverly who was the foreign secretary

And then the new foreign secretary is the former prime minister (2010-2016) David Cameron

[white pier]

damm davids back

[proud kelp]

Yep

He's back alright

[ashen valley]

And normally David Cameron wouldn't be able to serve on the cabinet due to him not being a Lord or an MP however the King approved him receiving a lifetime peerage which makes him a Baron and entitles him to serve on the cabinet

Which as much as I hate the Tories I can't fault just because at least David Cameron is qualified for the role

[white pier]

we have had 2 or 3 ministers resign in the last 2 months here in belgium

[proud kelp]

I do have reservations considering his track record and policies enabled during his time at 10 Downing Street

[white pier]

no the third one was a pm who said she stepped away from national politics only to come back a bit later 💀

[ashen valley]

We've had that many today I'm pretty sure

[tough swallow]

Ours never wanna leave no matter how much they screw up.

[white pier]

new dance move! the cabinet shuffle

[ashen valley]

Oh yeah he was a shit PM but at least he was an actual politician who stood by his policies which were actually thought out rather than just being popularist drivel

[white pier]

interesting fact

next up he is gonna mandate that everyone must paint warhammer figures

[proud kelp]

I feel like he might do that tbh

[white pier]

why dont our politicians do stuff like that

tbf we do have a star wars and roman history nerd as a flemish mp

[merry shell]

Did someone say Star Wars hehehe

[quick coral]

Same here, half our ministers have had some worrying connections to extremist far-right groups... Among other things😭

[white pier]

ours require alot of things to resign

one resigned because what happend in brussels and the other so he can focus on being a mayor

[quick coral]

https://yle.fi/a/74-20039202

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/11/finnish-far-right-finance-minister-riikka-purra-accused-of-racist-online-comments

https://www.euronews.com/2023/06/20/racism-and-rape-fantasies-the-pr-headache-facing-finlands-new-right-wing-government

https://www.helsinkitimes.fi/finland/finland-news/politics/23836-many-finns-party-ministers-have-pointed-to-replacement-theory.html

[queen marsh]

cough George Santos is still a US Congressman cough

[warped barn]

Bc we have the best system/s

[cinder sundial]

I watched the 3rd gop debate a few days ago, and yeah I knew it wasn’t worth watching ._. Like my god if any of these people win the election I’m literally leaving bro, I’m not even joking

[lost fiber]

tories stink

if you're a tory you're not cool

[ashen valley]

Fuck yeah

[wet shale]

https://fxtwitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1724893828652605456?s=20

[queen marsh]

[wet shale]

I know voter intention polls are never quite accurate but im really praying for smth like this

[wet shale]

https://fxtwitter.com/ScottishTrans/status/1725169218084131253?s=20

something good

[lost fiber]

moving to Scotland

/hj

[rancid lintel]

this is a future history post i made, idk if im supposed to post it here or in #art but here you go lol. it's not reflective of real life british politics, and its not what i think will happen, its just a scenario i thought about myself.

[sharp surge]

So I'm watching a documentary from a few years ago is Palestine people not Jewish or is Israel people not Jewish I'm a little confused

For context I'm watching ultra zionists documentary by Louis theroux

[white pier]

palestine is muslim and isreal is jewish

[sharp surge]

Ohh that makes more sense i was heavily confused while watching this doc

[white pier]

no problem

[sharp surge]

Thank youu

[ashen valley]

more specifically they are the primary religions in those countries, there are a range of other religions that make up the population in each country

so for Israel: "According to the country's Central Bureau of Statistics (CBS) classification system (2021 data), approximately 73.8 percent of the population is Jewish, 18 percent Muslim, 1.9 percent Christian, and 1.6 percent Druze." (https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/441219-ISRAEL-2022-INTERNATIONAL-RELIGIOUS-FREEDOM-REPORT.pdf)

and for Palestine: "93% of Palestinians are Muslim, the vast majority of whom are followers of the Sunni branch of Islam, with a small minority of Ahmadiyya, and 15% being nondenominational Muslims. Palestinian Christians represent a significant minority of 6%, followed by much smaller religious communities, including Druze and Samaritans." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine#Religion)

[white pier]

oh yeah ofc

[ashen valley]

yeah i just wanted to flesh it out more as it isnt a strictly black and white issue

[wet shale]

yeah its definitely good to do that, especially considering a lot of christian palestinian entire families have been killed, and these are families who descend back to the time of jesus in this area

[fading ravine]

i can imagine cleverly is on his way out

braverman replaced with cleverly. cleverly likely on his way out. who next?

[white pier]

waiting for election results is annoying like just come sooner

[quick coral]

Ik this is old atp but there's a lot of palestinian arab Christians who've been displaced or are living in the west bank. The palestinian authority and the PLO are secular and try to represent all palestinians.

[warped barn]

Dutch ones?

[white pier]

yeah

[vocal fossil]

now that i remembered we have a politics channel

https://vxtwitter.com/PopCrave/status/1730649543581003844?t=-6owDt_M4Mm-o7n8HVMolg&s=19

[white pier]

good that they are speaking out

[vocal fossil]

im not trying to make the situation about the celebrities when it should be about the safety of palestine

but I do greatly respect the people who do try to talk about it, even at the risk of their careers.
trying to censor everybody showing any ounce of support, including the brave souls in gaza trying to tell the world about their situation right, is frankly disgusting. if they're so sure that the people in palestine are truly evil, why are they so afraid of anyone trying to speak out about it?

(anyway ye just sharing what i think abt it bc i genuinely forgot we had the politics channel)

please keep praying for the safety and freedom of palestine and if you can help please do

[cinder sundial]

And it’s honestly crazy that they have to risk their careers in order to say this stuff. Well actually, this is america— I shouldn’t be this surprised. And I agree with you, censoring/firing people over their beliefs is disgusting. Not only is it disgusting, it goes against the first amendment, which allows for free speech. This is by no means the first time that the us government has gone against the constitution, but this is the last straw for me (as if there wasn’t one already). Defending a country that is committing crimes like these is deplorable

(I actually don’t know is this was an american article and I see british actors, so I could have this all wrong 😭 either way, what I said is valid)

[vocal fossil]

Yeah! It's nuts. I assume it is a letter that started in America because Scream 7 is an American production. "Free speech" my foot.
Not to mention majority of Hollywood is so supportive of the other side..

I really do hope that more influencial people, regardless of their beliefs of the situation as a whole, can find it in their heart to realize that it's so much worse than the news could ever let on.

[rancid lintel]

You're misunderstanding, they're not hired by the US government... It's the companies who fired them for speaking out

The first amendment doesn't apply to private corporations

It's awful among all the mistreatment of writers and VFX artists, now this

But it's all the corporation and it's shareholders who probably demanded this firing

Scream is a Hollywood movie so yeah, it's probably a US film production company

Oh, not to mention that companies have always fired people for saying controversial stuff. Corpos are just the most spineless beings around

[cinder sundial]

Yeah I lowkey didn’t register that tbh, I suck at processing information 😭 either way, it’s still a form of speech control, even though it wasn’t technically done by the government itself

[rancid lintel]

The government can't control that sadly

I mean, it could apply to someone being homophobic on Twitter and their employers firing them

[cinder sundial]

Yup. And what’s crazy about that is that I’ve talked to my parents/other people in my life about this kind of stuff, and they all say “oh they can’t fire you for your beliefs, that’s unconstitutional.” But, like you said, it has happened and still continues to happen

[cinder sundial]

True

[rancid lintel]

Well... It's a private enterprise. The US constitution only applies to the government as an entity

Any company does not need to obey it, unless someone takes it to a legal court for unfair termination or something

[cinder sundial]

Exactly— it just kind of shows that people don’t really understand their own country

[rancid lintel]

Yeah, I mean I'd say the US is pretty lucky that we don't have to deal with police beating up people for criticizing some old rich people

I can't believe you still can be arrested for criticizing the royal family

[cinder sundial]

I feel like there might have been a couple cases of that happening (people being fired over their beliefs/opinion on the israel-hamas situation) but I’m not completely sure

[rancid lintel]

Eh well, hopefully they get their jobs back

I'm not big on social media because of this shit, anything they find could be potentially turned against you

Even in careers that don't have anything to do with whatever

[cinder sundial]

I mean you’re right to say that the us law doesn’t technically allow that, but police brutality is still a thing

[white pier]

just dont say anything controversial

[cinder sundial]

Same— I basically never post about politics

[rancid lintel]

Technically, me being engaged to another guy is controversial

[white pier]

well that would actually be illegal to fire you for that

[rancid lintel]

Yeah but legal trouble is annoying as fuck

And they could just refuse to hire me and give no reason

[cinder sundial]

I honestly hate not being able to post about my opinion on matters like this— other people are able to post about their opinions if the us government also supports it and face no issues

[rancid lintel]

Btw I'll probably be working in the US lmao

[rancid lintel]

The US government doesn't have one opinion about something though

We're as bipolar as it gets

It's not one singular person, and Congress and the Senate encompasses a ton of opinions about things

[white pier]

i will always say my opinion on stuff no matter if it gets me in trouble its my right to do that so 🤷‍♂️

[rancid lintel]

Yeah same

And if it's not the place to do so I'll just go somewhere where I can do it

It's almost too easy on the online space

[quick coral]

The federal government and the executive branch that leads it absolutely do take a single opinion on things

[rancid lintel]

The executive branch is part of the federal government

[quick coral]

I meant like the administrative state

[rancid lintel]

Usually Biden doesn't give his own opinion without having the backing of his advisors

[quick coral]

Ofc you'll have legislators disagreeing on things but the government does absolutely take a position in things😭

[cinder sundial]

Well yes, but biden has been open about support for israel since the us and israel have been allies for a long time. What I mean is that, even though there are many different opinions in congress, the senate, etc, there are certain things that the president does (ex. grant aid) that end up representing the entirety of the us to the rest of the world

[rancid lintel]

Yeah, but every position the nation takes is temporary

[wet shale]

hi george, just letting you know that using the word bipolar in this way can come across as ableist, in future could you use an alternative word such as indecisive?

[quick coral]

Every position everyone takes is temporary

[rancid lintel]

Anyway, that's not the point

[quick coral]

I think it's just referring to having 2 poles of political opinion, not bipolar disorder😭

[rancid lintel]

The point is that the US government doesn't control public internet rules

[wet shale]

i know it isnt referring to bipolar disorder 🙂

[quick coral]

It can and does to some extent but yeah its mostly private corporations.

[cinder sundial]

Well yes, but when trump was in office, for example, the us was seen as not open to immigrants because that’s what he believed/worked to put into law

[rancid lintel]

While individual government agencies have laws to prevent illicit stuff from appearing on websites, the government doesn't ban websites or blacklist certain people like how musk does

[white pier]

the glowies control everything /j

[white pier]

they do ban sites

and blacklisting they just make them dissapear in secret prisons

[quick coral]

That's true to some extent yeah

[quick coral]

There have been worrying attempts at internet censorship in the states though

[rancid lintel]

I doubt that you'd be going to a black site for saying netanyahu sucks straws

[rancid lintel]

Yeah, but most of them have been turned down

[quick coral]

Yeah ik, for now

[quick coral]

[cinder sundial]

For the most part that’s true, but they still technically have the right to control some public internet

[rancid lintel]

We just have to make sure that the people who support these bills are voted out

[rancid lintel]

They really don't. Corporations do.

The NSA does surveillance on the internet, but they can't force a website to be blocked like bilibili

[spare flax]

Please keep our SFW policy in mind, George. Please edit your message to convey your opinion in a less explicit way.

[quick coral]

Sucking... Lollipops is banned now? This is real authoritarianism /j

[spare flax]

https://tenor.com/view/dungeong-gif-3654754744145897317

[white pier]

https://tenor.com/view/1984-skander-big-brother-gif-21303304

[quick coral]

LMAO

[spare flax]

Don't Finn.

[cinder sundial]

But with how everything is looking right now, there’s no telling whether or not an idealistic reality where everything goes fine is really going to happen

[rancid lintel]

Remember when trump wanted Tiktok to be banned, and it took a whole act to make it happen, even now they could just split Chinese and American Tiktok

[quick coral]

I will Finn, i will never stop Finning.

[rancid lintel]

Well, for now the government isn't interfering with regular folks that aren't doing illegal stuff via the internet

[white pier]

finnland 🇫🇮

[rancid lintel]

Saying something controversial, like "Death to America" isn't going to put you to jail

[quick coral]

That's true for the most part yes. Tho it is questionable whether some of the illegal things (whistleblowers) should be censored and punished

[rancid lintel]

Yeah. That's fair

[cinder sundial]

For now is the key word there. The 2024 election is approaching quickly, and someone like desantis or ramaswamy being elected could mean an end to democracy. They’re debate lords that will definitely get anything they want as president

[white pier]

reporters without borders ranked usa 45th of press freedom

[quick coral]

Yeah there's lot of shit especially with the intelligence services😭

[rancid lintel]

Well, thinking about how it might happen isn't productive. Everyone who can vote should vote

[cinder sundial]

The us is in the bottom of most rankings of developed countries so yeah I believe that 😭

[rancid lintel]

I mean, the opposition does always double down

[rancid lintel]

It is still ranked higher in quality of life than a lot of other developed countries

16th, above New Zealand

[cinder sundial]

I agree. But still, we need to have a plan if things go in that direction (which currently seems likely)

[rancid lintel]

I doubt so

Biden won for a reason

The republicans crashed and burned, their credibility destroyed with trump and all their rhetoric

[white pier]

yeah but if he keeps being pro isreal he isnt gonna make his young voters happy

[quick coral]

The us is absolutely one of the best countries in the world to live in. But it's definitely failing in a lot of ways to provide appropriate living standards to millions of citizens

[rancid lintel]

Republicans are even more pro Israel

It's a bipartisan problem

[quick coral]

That's not really true tho... Republicans are still just as popular as before, they rly haven't crashed and burned

[rancid lintel]

Lots of old folks who peaked in the 1970s

[cinder sundial]

That’s true— biden won because people said “fuck it we need a president that won’t destroy the country,” but there’s no way he’s winning again. He isn’t saying much for himself compared to the republican candidates rn

[rancid lintel]

Yeah but still, I think Ukraine and the whole pandemic ending in his term would boost his popularity on the neutral voters

[quick coral]

I think the point was that biden is pushing young people not to vote at all, geopardising his chance at winning re-election

[rancid lintel]

It's still a whole year before the election tho, 2024 will be his year to prove to potential voters

[rancid lintel]

It'll be hard, most politicians in the US support Israel

[cinder sundial]

But most republicans support israel, so their politicians are supporting what they believe (meaning they will vote for them)

[rancid lintel]

He has been more critical of the Netanyahu government tho

[quick coral]

Yeah, for the sake of literally everyone i hope he does that well

[rancid lintel]

I really hope that we turn to a more neutral stance

[cinder sundial]

So do I— unfortunately I really don’t think it’ll happen though

[rancid lintel]

At this point, it's gone so bad that we should just back off and be the UN peacekeepers

[quick coral]

I know. And a shit ton of americans don't. Anti-electoral sentiment is rly popular in young left leaning people and biden doesn't have a cult following like trump. It's very possible for biden to push away voters

[rancid lintel]

I mean, trump not getting nominated might push away republican voters too

I'm pretty sure the trump followers hate Desantis' guts

[quick coral]

Neutral between the stale liberals that are the democratic party and the outright fascism of the GOP?😭

[quick coral]

He will get nominated. He's got no serious challenger at this point

[rancid lintel]

I mean Israel and Gaza

[quick coral]

Desantis has tanked in polling

[white pier]

neutral in this conflict is pro isreal tho

[cinder sundial]

I mean they kind of do. Either way, desantis has a ton of followers too

[rancid lintel]

The US is the main supplier of Israeli weapons

Plus the other side is literally a terrorist organisation

[quick coral]

Hamas yes, the palestinian authority no

[cinder sundial]

What is your stance on the israel-hamas conflict? Feel free not to answer if you don’t want to say /gen

[rancid lintel]

Well, the ceasefire should be commited

Idk if it was broken because I haven't heard the news since then

[quick coral]

(i do need to say that this conflict very much isn't just between Israel and hamas)

[cinder sundial]

I think it was, but I could be wrong

[white pier]

it ended the cease fire as far i know

[cinder sundial]

Oh yeah I know— sorry if I made it sound that way

[white pier]

couldnt agree on an extension or something

[rancid lintel]

Right now it is, the Palestinian authority and the IDF are a whole different kind of monster here

[rancid lintel]

That sucks

[rancid lintel]

It is the continuation of a back and forth game between them but the west bank has never associated with Hamas

As far as I know

[cinder sundial]

What do you mean by “back and forth game”?

[rancid lintel]

Missile attacks, settlement expansions

Palestine attacks Israeli territory with missiles and the Israeli government expands it's land with Jewish settlements

[cinder sundial]

True— and israel has attacked/bombed palestine too

As far as I know though, hamas is attacking israel more than the palestinian authority is

[white pier]

*isreal makes the palestinians their open air prison smaller and attack them with more missiles

[quick coral]

I do feel like i have to say that punishing people in the west bank for what a terrorist organisation operating in gaza is doing, is a bit of weird logic imo😭

[rancid lintel]

No, it's been happening for decades

[white pier]

that isreal has been opressing palestine? because yeah that has been happening for a while

[quick coral]

I know, but there has not been much aggression from the west bank, whilst the settlements in the west bank are being expanded

So I don't really see a correlation between rocket attacks (which have mostly been out of gaza) and the settlements in the west bank.

[cinder sundial]

Agreed

[rancid lintel]

Yeah, and it's just how it goes

Especially with the current Israel government

[quick coral]

I agree :)

[rancid lintel]

Both sides have extreme reactions that cause a lot of suffering on innocent people

[quick coral]

But the whole idea of a "back and forth game" in the west bank seems a bit questionable

[rancid lintel]

Hamas took control of the Gaza Strip a while ago, but before that happened, missile attacks still happened in Israel

[cinder sundial]

I think it’s a bit less “back and forth” and more “israel oppressing palestinians.” Let’s not forget that israeli officials/politicians have been saying that everyone in gaza and the west bank (almost half of the population being children) supports hamas, and that they’re “animals”

[quick coral]

Anyways I don't think a heartstopper server politics thread is exactly the best place to argue the israel-palestine conflict so I'm gonna escape

[cinder sundial]

Lmao probably true lol

Everyone’s been civil though so that’s been nice

[white pier]

omg is this a politics reference in my geography book

[rancid lintel]

politics??? in my geography???

[white pier]

no bernie! that is so not right!

[proud kelp]

It’s the way he then tweets out against AIPAC

[white pier]

american politics is so scuffed but interesting to watch

[proud kelp]

It always is a circus worth watching

[proud kelp]

Also approve the Toto Wolff meme here

[white pier]

someone gets it

[proud kelp]

[cinder sundial]

Couldn’t have a made a better analogy myself lol

[cinder sundial]

I’m gonna be real, idek what’s happening with the impeachment rn

Like I currently have no opinions on it since ik nothing about it

[white pier]

lets say hunter (joes son) has been a naughty boy

[cinder sundial]

Ohh yeah I was thinking it was probably about that lmao

[white pier]

and joe might have been involved in some stuff

[white pier]

https://youtu.be/K9KO1u6z4WM if you want an interesting watch on what he has been up to

[white pier]

cw:drug use

[lost fiber]

fuck the tories

[proud kelp]

Don’t even kiss them

[severe musk]

Oh yeah

Not good for Biden

[cinder sundial]

So I went to check if there were any new candidates, and apparently cenk uygur is running

Tbh idk much about him, but I’ve watched some of his debates

And he’s hasan’s uncle of course

What’s really interesting though is the “natural born citizen” clause, since he’s from turkey

The guardian says he plans to prove he can be the president in court

[white pier]

idk i think they should just keep only american born people can be president

i do wish the guy the best would be cool if he can get the thing revoked

[cinder sundial]

Tbh I’m not sure what I believe in myself. Like I personally don’t think it would be a huge deal if a non-natural born citizen became president, but at the same time it might really depend on the person. As far as I know, uygur’s is a pretty radical leftist, but has had some controversies in the past. Overall, I don’t remember/know much of his views

[white pier]

it would be cool if like someone who isnt born american if they made their way to governor and stuff and served their 2 terms that they would be exempt from the thingy since they proved that they have experience running a government

because i dont see how he could prove in court that he would be a good president because he has never put his ideas into practice

[cinder sundial]

Just found this banger LMAO /j
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3tUnbE7qkpw

[white pier]

https://vrtnws.be/p.8eJj7MEKo a very disappointing day in belgium

getting a heavier sentence then people who took the life of someone is disgusting

[warped barn]

bro got 100K+ already

[white pier]

yeah its insane

[warped barn]

btw 140K*

[rain jewel]

politics

[quick coral]

Your mother

[white pier]

average political debate

[cinder sundial]

America is so shit rn

Like I say this a lot but I’m literally leaving if trump gets elected man

[tender flax]

you may as well, from what i can tell the general GOP are all dead set on putting project 2025 into place if trump is elected

somehow the GOP has forgotten that the first amendment SPECIFICALLY IMPLIES that there needs to be a seperation of church and state

so not only are the GOP extremely bad at being politicians, they're also breaching the very amendments they push as talking points

thomas jefferson spoke about it often

he wrote to the danbury baptist association in 1801 talking about it, in summary he said; "there can be freedom of religion but this shouldn't spill over into the governmental process"

i'm sure the founding fathers would be pretty disappointed with how the US turned out

[void sigil]

I mean... Part of it was the fault of Jefferson and Hamilton. They were the very first people who supported partisan politics and helped dividing the country into the first two party system

But it was more about North v. South

[cinder sundial]

Exactly— the complete disregard for separation of church and state is actually mind-blowing to me

[tender flax]

yeah, fair point. i meant like how every one of them would be fairly disappointed with how everything they preached (within reason) has pretty much been attacked in some form of the other, i should've clarified sorry.

but yeah the fact that jefferson and hamilton both routinely divided themselves and congress by debating the meaning of article 1 in the constitution is so funny, both of their reasonings just boiled down to a more liberal and a more conservative view of what they interpreted it as and then came them founding the federalists and the republicans aswell as the whole hoopla of the 1790 compromise even while washington was alive, it's disheartening to think that washington began to see his fears infront of him before he died.

[tender flax]

i think power and religious fanaticism comes into it, being so deeply religious hits your brain more than you'd realise. they're so adamant about it being a christian country that they're fine with betraying the nation they serve for their own interests

theres being christian and still respecting your nation and then theres what they're doing, completely different levels of religious belief despite being the same religion and potentially the same denomination, as far as i can tell evangelicalism is the largest denomination followed by protestantism i think?

correct me if i'm wrong tho, i'm not sure

so maybe that plays into it

[cinder sundial]

Well technically catholicism is the largest denomination of christianity— I think people tend to think evangelicalism is the largest because they’re kind of infamous/have a lot of influence

[tender flax]

ah right

yeah evangelicalism, as far as i can tell, just boils down to taking what jesus said as literally as possible

so they do some wild shit

UK is different, catholicism and protestantism are at eachother's throats all the time

smaller denominations aren't too big

[cinder sundial]

Yup that’s basically it— taking the bible insanely seriously, including bible stories such as adam and eve and books like revelation (not meant to be taken literally)

[tender flax]

do they think the arc is a box?

[cinder sundial]

Idk tbh, probably

[tender flax]

my grandma is roman catholic and shes told me that catholics say that mary is actually the arc

and not a golden box

i meant a box sorry

not real

since she carried the covenant (jesus) and acted as the arc (pregnancy)

[cinder sundial]

Oh you mean the ark of the covenant?

[cinder sundial]

Dw it’s all good

[tender flax]

yeah

is it spelt ark?

i always spelt it as arc

[cinder sundial]

Yeah when I look it up it comes up as “ark”

[tender flax]

wild

[wet shale]

its ark when referring to a biblical ark, arc is more like an arc of light

[tender flax]

ohhhh right

[cinder sundial]

Tbh my denomination never really mentioned the ark to my knowledge, so I don’t have much info on it lol

[tender flax]

yeah fair lol

[cinder sundial]

I mean ik noah’s ark obviously

[tender flax]

oh yeah ik thay

[white pier]

big boat

[tender flax]

my fixation on the bible is more on funky shit

"noah big boat time i wanna make a new creative world"
"ight bet"

[cinder sundial]

All you need to know 👏

[tender flax]

but yeah US religious fanaticism is actively killing the US

if the US wasn't so disgustingly inefficient on multiple fronts, it'd be a nice country

it's just how rooted it is with horrible shit that makes it such a bad nation

[cinder sundial]

Yeah, yet another bible story that isn’t meant to be taken seriously (imo lol)

[tender flax]

the bible seems to mostly be metaphors for me

i'm not christian at all so i'm not too smart on this sorta stuff

i'm learning it actively but thats about it

[white pier]

i know nothing about the bible even though i spent 80% of my school time at christian schools 💀

[tender flax]

fair lmao

[cinder sundial]

Yeah I think that’s relatively accurate to say— I would say it’s mostly stories/situations that cue the reader to do some introspection on themselves and the world. A book that encourages you to think about morals/beliefs, if you will

[tender flax]

just use youtube channels

i used hochelaga for most of my knowledge

[tender flax]

yeah! recently in church on sunday the priest told the attendees about the doubt of michael and how you should take it as a metaphorical tale

i go with my grandma, it's a really calm environment + it makes her happy

i'm a pagan personally so i just pray to the god i worship in there

[cinder sundial]

Lmao, both of my parents are pastors (lutheran) so I was pretty involved in church growing up. Acolyte training, confirmation, all that lol

[tender flax]

i was baptised but never confirmed

[cinder sundial]

Ah I see

[tender flax]

tbf this is small country UK where the religious people are at their largest

the city i live in isn't too overtly religious

i don't see many church goers around

[cinder sundial]

The only christian school I went to was religious preschool lol (if that even counts)

[tender flax]

i think it does

[white pier]

belgium is becoming less and less religious but the catholic churches get paid by how many people live in their area so other religions get less money from subsidies 💀

[cinder sundial]

Yeah the attendance at my parents’ churches have gone down dramatically in past years, especially after covid

[cinder sundial]

Damn— tbh I know basically nothing about the technical side of running a church, but it definitely seems difficult at this point in time

[tender flax]

you have to build a community

[cinder sundial]

Yup

[tender flax]

churches also have to pay tax

or should atleast

they're still private institutions owned by a larger body most of the time

well in america i'd imagine

most of the religious buildings in the UK are nationalised

[cinder sundial]

That’s cool! Do you know if the church is red, blue, purple, etc? (Red being mostly right politically, blue being more left, and purple being a mix)

[cinder sundial]

Yeah in america I would assume they would be private

[tender flax]

it's a small town so i'd say purple

it's a conservative hotspot but the people in the town seem to be dissuaded by the conservatives and are turning to the left

[cinder sundial]

Ah nice— I would say my parents’ churches are purple-blue

[cinder sundial]

Damn, if only people in the us worked like that 💀

[tender flax]

lmfao ong

the conservatives (tories) here have been destroying the country so bad

[cinder sundial]

Meanwhile americans are in love with the craziest of politicians

[cinder sundial]

Yeah I believe it

[tender flax]

they've resulted to the "transgender debate"

fucking gobshites won't shut up about it

[cinder sundial]

Fr it’s all they have left to talk about💀

[tender flax]

they've wrecked the economy, they've wrecked the military, they've wrecked the education system

they have nothing

all they have is a culture war

it's leaving genuine damage

i won't get into it cuz it might be triggering for some people but it's getting very bad

[cinder sundial]

Oh god don’t even get me started on the american government trying to fuck up the education system
I probably don’t need to tbh 😭

[tender flax]

my own dad said he'd kick me out if i dated a transgender person, like bro what is that thought process?

i date someone who wants to be themselves and he will abandon his own son because i happened to like them?

thank god i don't live with him, i live with my mum whos a trans ally thankfully

[cinder sundial]

Jesus. I agree— to put it simply, it’s insane and just shows that some people’s ridiculous beliefs are somehow more important to them than their children

[cinder sundial]

My mom is also an ally but she isn’t the greatest at getting pronouns right 😭

[tender flax]

same, she tries her best though

she'll say the wrong pronoun but then quickly correct herself

she is trying which i respect

[cinder sundial]

Like she misgendered one of my friends multiple times on multiple different occasions and didn’t correct herself— I always have to tell her

[cinder sundial]

That’s good at least

[tender flax]

does she try atleast?

like is she actively being a trans ally

or is she just sort of floating around it

[cinder sundial]

I mean there are trans kids/people in her congregation and she has always gendered them correctly from my knowledge

[tender flax]

oh well thats a good sign

it seems more like shes just not used to it

[cinder sundial]

Yeah, I think it’s probably just the “getting used to it” thing

But what’s lame is that I have two sets of pronouns and she only uses one

Which ig can be confusing but like dang 😭

[tender flax]

lmao

but yeah

what i always laugh at is like how transphobes will never like

experience the rush you get from gendering a trans person correctly and seeing their face light up

i always feel good after it

[cinder sundial]

Exactly, and tbh I just feel happy gendering trans people correctly in general because those pronouns reflect them as a person

It’s just who they are and I want them to know that I see them

[tender flax]

yeah! letting them know they're safe to be around me is always a good feeling

[cinder sundial]

Fr

[tender flax]

especially with how hostile it is these days

[cinder sundial]

Yup definitely

[tender flax]

to change topics as to not flood the channel

how do you feel about the...

american revolution

as in like was the taxing justified etc.

[cinder sundial]

Imma be real I barely remember learning about the american revolution, that was like middle school/early high school or smth 😭

[tender flax]

LMAO fair

[cinder sundial]

I mean from what I remember it was a pretty crazy time obviously lol

[cloud siren]

We dumped tea in a harbor 😜

[tender flax]

you did

the boston tea party!

[cinder sundial]

Yup 🥰

[tender flax]

now my personal opinion

as a brit which means i'm only half qualified

i think the revolution was justified

[cinder sundial]

You mean just the fact that they were like “fuck the british”?

[tender flax]

you're under colonial rule for like 150 years

[cinder sundial]

Oh well yeah

[tender flax]

we force ur guys to fight the french

[cloud siren]

As a peson whos family lived in poland,germany, or the british isles in the 1700s I'd agree that like... a tiny island shouldn't control the world 😛

[tender flax]

then we tax you

i mean not to mention what we did in boston afterward

[cinder sundial]

My family came from norway in the early 1900s so they were just kind of like “cool, freedom and no ||starvation||” 😅

[cloud siren]

Britian was one of the very few world powers at the time

[tender flax]

one of a few

britain, france, HRE, china

russia maybe

italy?

[cinder sundial]

Italy was a bit later I think

[cloud siren]

Unsure if I'd call China a world power at the time unless they had a stronger naval fleet than I'm aware of?

[white pier]

not unified

[cinder sundial]

Yeah italy and china were like early-ish 1900s

[tender flax]

china had HUGE amounts of manpower and were still a large nation in the trade game

[cinder sundial]

True

[tender flax]

sure colonial powers got their stuff from their colonies but china still had large stores of fancy shit

[cloud siren]

From memory the big players at least on the atlantic were britain france and spain

[tender flax]

SPAIN

i forgot about slain

spain

[cinder sundial]

I haven’t really heard spain referred to as a world power, but yeah definitely france and britain

[tender flax]

ir was a power

[cinder sundial]

I could easily be wrong

[white pier]

spain was on their downfall pretty sure

[cloud siren]

Spain had control of a decently large portion of the south of the Americas

[tender flax]

it held most of the modern western US, a fuckton of south america and african colonies

[cinder sundial]

Ohh yeah true

[tender flax]

they were formidabls

[cinder sundial]

I completely forgot about the colonies LMAO

[cloud siren]

Britain wasn't much without their colonies

[cinder sundial]

They casually had control of like half of the known world at the time 😭

[tender flax]

we were useless lol

we held a colony on every continent

thought we were tough shit

but we got dogged by napoleon like 8 times

[white pier]

imaginr your country existing in thr 1700s

[tender flax]

you live to 17 and then die of disease

[tough swallow]

Well said

[quick coral]

Our government is trying to pass a law which would allow them to turn refugees away at the border, in direct violation of the constitution as well as EU and international law😭

It'd have to be passed as an exception to the constitution which would require a 5/6 majority in parliament

Time will tell if they can reach that

[void sigil]

Wasn't much of English legacy from the 1600s, when they defeated the Spanish Armada?

[void sigil]

Fun fact: The low mortality by that time was due to the relatively high infant deaths. A lot of people who grew out of childhood would live up to 60 to 70 years old

[void sigil]

The one that's inherently conservative?

[quick coral]

What do you mean?

[white pier]

finnish goverment be kinda goofy

[void sigil]

I remember that Finland had a majority conservative government recently

[quick coral]

Oh yeah we do

The phrasing confused me a bit

[void sigil]

Ah yeah haha, I used the wrong word

[quick coral]

XDD

[void sigil]

Anyway, I'm thankful that your government is at least not as bad as Orban or whatever the hell's going on in Slovakia and Austria

[quick coral]

Meh not exactly a high bar😭

Don't rly know abt austria but still

[void sigil]

Austria has a large far right following, but I think this might be outdated

I do know that the far right leader there is young (Still might be outdated information)

[quick coral]

I mean yeah but so does everywhere😭

Their actual government just seems to be regular old conservative

[void sigil]

I'd say thanks to Russia, but the collective people aren't very smart nowadays

[quick coral]

To be honest I don't think it's right to call supporters of far-right populist movements not smart

[void sigil]

Fair... well, then they never picked up a 20th Century history book

[quick coral]

That, especially a lack of political education is part of the issue

But there's also just that the material conditions in our societies are driving ppm towards populist movements

[white pier]

one of our left wing parties handed out folders that looked liked train tickets at train stations and the train service asked them to stop because they looked to real and people were confused 💀

[quick coral]

Neoliberals have failed to address our societal problems and made them worse in a lot of ways, so people turn to different ideas and find groups to blame

When you've got a bunch of people who feel alienated and angry at the system, it's really easy to turn them into far-righters

[void sigil]

I mean, there is more to that than just this. A lot of conservative movements receive funding from corporations, since they are very much pro-corporate

[quick coral]

Yeah of course there is, it's a complicated issue😭

[quick coral]

This is true to some extent yes, depending on where you are

[void sigil]

I am pretty sure that the conservative mayor in Prague is paid off by car companies 😭

The infrastructure they are building there is horrendous

[quick coral]

In finland our moderate conservatives get most of the corporate money, whereas the far-right has been more reliant on money from labour unions and party members' donations

[void sigil]

😮‍💨

[white pier]

our parties get money from the goverment which they then invest to make more money

they get ALOT of money

[quick coral]

Ours do too

Our communist party actually went bankrupt in the 90s due to bad investments

Which i think is rather fitting

[white pier]

💀

the richest party is actually calling to lower the amount the parties get

[quick coral]

So for example kok. Gets just over 8 million per year

The funding system is incredibly favourable to bigger parties as the funds are allocated by seat count in parliament

[vocal field]

Seems like she's being targeted by the British media

[white pier]

what did she do or might have done?

[wet shale]

"The Conservative Party's deputy chair claims she may have given false information about her main residence."

which would break electoral law

[white pier]

interesting law

why would she lie tho

[tender flax]

its all politicians can do

[wet shale]

its explained better than i can in this article https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68797258

[white pier]

ah to dodge taxes

yikes

[tender flax]

it's rotten here

okay i think i get it

she registered her residence at a false address as a way to avoid certain taxes and bills that come her way

[tough swallow]

I'm celebrating a bit today

"Under the new law, trans and non-binary people will be able to go to a civil registry office and have their gender marker and their given names changed through a simple declaration. No “expert” opinions or medical certificates will be required. The applicant will be able to choose from several gender markers – male, female, or “diverse” – or opt not to enter a gender at all."

https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/04/12/germany-landmark-vote-trans-rights-law

[pliant tiger]

Wow. What a beautiful, simple, logical law. Love it.

[cinder sundial]

I heard about this this morning! Glad to hear it passed

[cinder sundial]

In america churches don’t necessarily have to pay tax— this is mainly because they provide a social safety net for people. Churches are basically nonprofits for the community and lots of other organizations/the government look to them to provide that support

[quick coral]

That's great!! It seems similar to the law that came in to effect here a year ago :D

2 questions: are there provisions for non-binary people to change their gender to something other than man or woman? And what's the age limit for self-id gender change?

Those are sadly the 2 main ways our new legislation ended up being lacking :(

[tough swallow]

You can use "diverse" (neither man nor woman) or completely remove the ender entry. Whatever you prefer.

The age limit is 14 as far as I remember. Let me check real quick.

[quick coral]

Oh that's really good!!

[tough swallow]

You can do it starting at 14 on your own (but need approval from parents which is unfortunate but is already discussed how to handle disagreements). Before that, your parents have to do it.

[quick coral]

Our centre party got pissy and got the age limit raised to 18 in the law; a 3rd gender option also wasn't added

[quick coral]

That's reasonable :D

[tough swallow]

It's definitely not flawless

But it's a huge step

[quick coral]

Yeah :)

[tough swallow]

The old law in place was in conflict with human rights 💀

[quick coral]

Yeah so was ours💀

||Forced sterilisation||

[quick coral]

It's definitely one of the most progressive self-id laws on the planet afaik

[tough swallow]

Could you spoiler this 🫣

[tough swallow]

Why didn't they add a third gender option in yours?

What was the reasoning?

[quick coral]

Ohh sorry

[quick coral]

I don't exactly remember but something stupid and made-up because conservatives just want to make people's lives harder?

[tough swallow]

Nice /s 🫠 It seems like going only 50% of the way

[quick coral]

It is!

That's what the centre party is all about

The rest of the parties in the previous government (sdp, left, greens and to some extent at least the sfp) would've been happy to go for more progressive change

[tough swallow]

Such a missed chance

And so many people are still not validated legally

Uh, have to get some sleep now

[quick coral]

Goodnight!

[quick coral]

Yup😭 and the current government CERTAINLY isn't going to make any positive changes to this💀

[narrow bobcat]

I support Israel (due to my religion, don't get mad plz-)

[cinder sundial]

Can I ask what about your religion makes you support israel? /gen

[narrow bobcat]

I'm Jewish and some of my family lives in Tel Aviv :))

I'm not Israeli tho, I'm Canadian-Polish

[cinder sundial]

It makes sense to worry for your family’s safety. I personally support the palestinian people since they’re constantly being attacked/killed, and something should be done about it imo lol

[narrow bobcat]

I'm worried about the Palestinians too, they're being led into what Hamas is doing (my opinion), but I do feel bad for them. Its not their fault in the slightest, its HAMAS. Hamas bombed Israel first and Israel got fed up (as they shoukd) and are fighting back, we both are doing what we think is right for our people

Doesn't mean it is right

[cinder sundial]

Wdym by “being led into what hamas is doing?” Most of them are just living their lives

I also agree that hamas is at fault for many things. However, this conflict has been going on for 76 years, and hamas was formed in 1987 because they couldn’t stand israel’s oppression anymore

[narrow bobcat]

Lots of them (from my research) agree with hamas

I also don't research a lot (just bc I'm lazy and listen in on my moms convos for info)

I'm gonna go play Hogwarts legacy to take my mind off stuff, I'm just worried abt my dad and brother rn

[cinder sundial]

While some do (because they see it as one of the only options they have; many israelis hold hate for palestinians too (doesn’t mean it’s right of course)), many palestinians are actually not in support of hamas

[narrow bobcat]

Agreed, I just wasn't aware if exactly how many (my bad, apologies)

Anyways I'm gonna go play Hogwarts Legacy

[cinder sundial]

I would definitely recommend doing your own research haha

[narrow bobcat]

Will do :))

I'm also gonna try to call my dad or my brother to see if they're doing okay

[white pier]

https://youtu.be/jkbX0DBhvKE binface should have won

[proud kelp]

Couldn’t get past Reform though

[white pier]

dw next election he will sweep and get all the votes

[pliant tiger]

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