The Acolyte - Episode 5 Discussion

[dusky lark]

sword vs skateboard... interesting but probably fatal choice for the skateboarder

[keen vortex]

We only have a few days left until 6.

And my head is still full of 5.

[round sparrow]

I just hope that the next flashbacks don't make me dislike Indara. While I think she was somewhat detached when we met her, she seemed the least affected by what happened on Brendok.

[dusky lark]

I suspect 6 is going to be the explainer. Sol will tell his truth to Mae. What ever that truth may be.

[spiral tiger]

I'm unsure why, but I've had the opposite take on her. I wasn't too much a fan of her, and the flashback seemingly made it worse. Her pretentiousness was wiiiiild. I'm hoping it kinda turns around as the story unfolds

[round sparrow]

I like Carrie Ann Moss and I thought she was cool in the fight. It's the first flashback that's giving me some potential bad vibes.

[spiral tiger]

I'm hoping that we've maybe seen a more exaggerated version of the flashback, told from a somewhat unreliable narrator

[random pier]

she was pretentious af. and that's kind of what the Jedi had become by that point.

[dusky lark]

....ohhhh what if it's a murder cover up? the Jedi killed one of their own who agreed with the opinion of the witches?

I like coming up with ideas so dumb it ends a conversation 🙂

[round sparrow]

What gets me is the implication that they were going to take both girls no matter what. To my knowledge, the Jedi never TOOK kids without the parents' permission.

[dusky lark]

all I got was the Jedi insisting on them having a choice, something most of the witches were very against. Sol and the Leader seemed of a like mind

[keen vortex]

I've learned to pause and examine my opinions on characters who are women. Well no, I am not done learning. Hopefully I'll never stop learning until I'm dead.

I wonder when she tells Sol no, if she was saying no, don't fight or no, don't offer.

If it's the former what happened in the past that made her think Sol would draw his weapon on a child?

If it's the latter, wasn't getting the children the mission?

[random pier]

"The Jedi have the right . . . "

kind of implies people just didn't say no to the Jedi, regardless of their feelings on the matter

[dusky lark]

witch Maul is IMO a simplistic character, spikey head species = ANGRY! Darth Maul was spikey and verrrr angry ergo all spikey heads are angry.

[keen vortex]

Wouldn't you be?

[dusky lark]

well yes, because I like hats

[round sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/jecki-lon-the-acolyte-dafne-keen-star-wars-theelin-gif-12463460442009290158

She doesn't look that angry)

😉

[dusky lark]

...she didn't look angry then she kicked off on Mae and the Stranger...

light blue touch paper retreat to a safe distance and watch that Padawan go Tasmanian Devil.

[lean thunder]

We have a few extant training techniques for knife and stick fighting which come close to it.

You still hit the same problem where watching someone who knows what they are doing is not super interesting unless you have some appreciation for the things that all disciplines have in common.

[spiral tiger]

Yeah ngl a part of it felt like Indara may have been strong-arming them

[surreal solar]

Youre right, maybe they should fire all the white men then they'd understand our pain

[proper python]

I... Do not think that would solve any problems

Bringing more diverse creators into Star Wars is a good and necessary thing. But punishing creatives who have made positive contributions to the franchise will not fix white supremacy

[round sparrow]

There are many things wrong with that statement, and I don't think that it belongs here, even as a joke...

[vague leaf]

Folks. This shouldn't need to be said... Star wars is about awesome laser swords, space battles, good vs evil, and space wizards. That is what we are here to discuss. I'm personally thrilled that more people are getting representation. It's a great thing. But race, gender, relationship preferences, etc? That is not what we are here to discuss. Let the rest of the Internet melt down one way or the other about these things, and keep it light and fun here. Enough said.

[dusky lark]

I think the current zeitgiest very much contains discussion of gender expression, sexual preference and representation, and with the way Disney is interacting with it's audience a valid thing to discuss. Surely it's better to police intent rather than sinply restrict certain topics?

Obviously in relation to the shows we are actually watching.

[hollow talon]

I think it’s safe to say that the statement: “they should fire everyone in a specific demographic” isn’t an intent to promote discussion.

[dusky lark]

Yes and? The point is INTENT. Does it serve a discussion, does it add value? Or does it reduce value, does it reduce value for everyone, does it target, is your perception of that reduction in value based on preconceptions? It's complicated, obviously, but the answer should never be to just say no.

IMO.

[spare crane]

I think the general statement of they should be firing an entire demographic doesn’t really add to anything and is pretty intense. Saying perhaps they should be hiring more POC and LGBTQ+ individuals. It just needs to be dialed back.

[dusky lark]

The INTENT of that statement, directly contridicts the type of discussion I said we should be allowed to have. Did I not make that clear in my long winded pontificating couple of posts?

[spare crane]

Took a few reads but got it.

[round sparrow]

throws in two pennies They should continue to hire intelligent, talented people with a passion for the project and filmmaking no matter their race, gender, sexual identity, sexual preference, religious preference, political leanings.

Hot take: I like star wars

[spare crane]

?mute @round sparrow 1 hr.

[runic delta]

wombat5315 was muted. | hr.

[spare crane]

Kidding

?unmute @round sparrow

[runic delta]

wombat5315 was unmuted. | No reason given.

[round sparrow]

You might blow our minds with that one. 😂

[hollow talon]

https://tenor.com/view/mind-blow-galaxy-explode-boom-fireworks-gif-5139389

[proper python]

Liking Star Wars? In this economy?

[spare crane]

I wish I was a Star Wars so people would fight over me.

[vague leaf]

Just know that I love you, @spare crane

[proper python]

Everyone tell @spare crane we love him

[vague leaf]

We dont want Star Wars feeling like theres a SINGLE PERSON in this server that doesnt love them. =(

[hollow talon]

We love you @spare crane
But of course “you know”.

[jade grail]

We love you @spare crane

[spare crane]

😂

[round sparrow]

We 👏 LOVE👏 @spare crane 👏

[keen vortex]

If you only knew

https://tenor.com/view/the-acolyte-sith-qimir-sped-up-he's-behind-you-gif-12395260887075413402

We are going to be months in and I will still be intoxicated by this man.

[tepid hawk]

Just imagining Qimir watching Mae get out of view and then levitating himself down from his trap with a sigh. “Dang… my pupil really is going to get in so much trouble right about now.” He wasn’t mad. He was just disappointed

[round sparrow]

I swear, the first lesson in becoming a Sith is "How to Enter a Situation in the Most Dramatic Way Possible"

[keen vortex]

I do like how quickly he came and vaulted over Mae on the ground.

Like a panther defending his mate.

So romantic. Up until he kept threatening to kill Mae. Bit of a mood damper.

[round sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/darth-maul-starwars-surprise-gif-15977033

https://tenor.com/view/palpatine-1513-empire-emperor-palpatine-gif-20316793

https://tenor.com/view/darth-vader-light-saber-gif-7901003

All these dramatic bi[QUACK]es

Qimir really fits in

[spare crane]

I should change back before someone tries to retcon or review bomb me.

[hollow talon]

Or say that you shouldn’t have bricks.

[keen vortex]

Or that you're dead.

[runic badge]

@spare crane 0 stars, no explanation

[jade grail]

Or say that you shouldn’t have fires where fires have existed since the 80s

[round sparrow]

I find the argument kinda funny considering that THE SUN EXISTS. All fire needs in order to exist in space is a supply of something that can fuel it and a spark. As I recall, there was gas around that panel when it went off. The only criticism that I've seen online that's dumber than "fire in space" is "using a lightsaber to cut hair is stupid!"

https://tenor.com/view/anakin-skywalker-knight-anakin-sywalker-knighted-anakin-skywalker-jedi-knight-yoda-knights-anakin-gif-25690260

Uh huh, stupid. Suuuure.

Gotta love that the people who are griping about Mae cutting her hair with a lightsaber and being met with that GIF are retorting: "It's not canon!" Neither was Ki Adi f[QUACK]ing Mundi's birthday that y'all threw a fit over. SW Twitter is a mess 🤣

[spare crane]

Wow didn’t know that was a thing. All you need is an oxidizer…

Well and fuel

[dusky lark]

I still think the fire in space was a joke around the name OSHA. she makes her workplace so unsafe she can even set space on fire

[round sparrow]

No, people were legitimately criticizing it because it's "unrealistic". In a show with space wizards.

[spare crane]

Proof that fire can occur in a vacuum.

[keen vortex]

Hehehe

[potent helm]

well the sun isn't technically fire, it's nuclear fusion. That said, whether fire is real in space or not in real life, it's always existed in SW. So not sure what people are getting their underwear in a wad about

[dusky lark]

I know the people complaining about it are, utterly ridiculous, but then for them the purpose of their behaviour goes far past any desire for a 'better Star Wars'

[spiral tiger]

I think the biggest issue is perspective. We tend to apply the understandings of our galaxy to AGFFA, which is already setting ourselves up for disappointment. I mean we barely understand the inner-workings of our own galaxy, especially our own planet.

Also important to note that none of this stuff is real, and if someone's that upset over the inner-workings of a fictional galaxy far far away, please go outside and touch grass lmao

[green path]

This is a funny sentence out of context

Before the 1980s there was no fire

Everyone just lived in the dark!

[keen parrot]

Just heading back to the Jedi massacre and walking dead style safety for main characters treatment this episode has, is it out of the realm of possibility that none of our Jedi friends will survive this show so the brilliance of Ki Adi Mundi’s “Impossible. The Sith have been extinct for a millennium.” line is because no one survives to report Qimir and his Sith like demeanor

I just always assumed the lightsiders were gonna get the rogue 1 conclusion in this show

[arctic cloak]

I think what you describe is absolutely possible. I foresee one of two scenarios as being highly likely -

1. As you describe all the characters are killed and the Jedi in their arrogance hush up the incident as some kind of anomaly with no mention of Sith. This very much could be the key moment when their downfall really starts.

2. Despite what he says Qimir is not a Sith in terms of the line of two we know of that includes Plagueis and Sidious. A lot of speculation on this has already happened so I’m not going to rehash the theory

Though I’m more in the number 2 camp, I think that based on what we have seen so far there is strong evidence supporting both theories and I like forward to seeing how it plays out.

[fallen glen]

This rule of 2…. Has there ever actually been a canon (movie/series) confirmation that it means there are only 2 Sith at any given point in time in total? Because Yoda‘s statement from TPM can also be understood as ‘Sith always show up in pairs’.

If you count Palpatine, Dooku, Maul, Savage etc. there are already more than two during the war.

Ventress…

[hollow talon]

This is a very good question that I do not have the answer to.

In Legends it’s made clear that Bane came up with the Rule of Two and the Banite Sith are supposed to stick to it.

It’s also made clear in Legends that the Banite Sith constantly break this rule (as the apprentices try to get their own apprentices, or the Master tries to get new apprentice candidates if they feel doubts about their current apprentice).

Eventually it all comes out and the Sith yell at each other or quietly seethe about the other breaking the rule, then fight each other, then eventually it gets back down to two, then stays at two until they break the rules again.

So while I don’t know if the Rule of Two has strong canon backing on the Sith side, in Legends they broke the rule all the time anyway.

They just kept coming back to it too.

The Sith are hypocritical. 🤷‍♀️

[arctic cloak]

That’s why I put emphasis on the concept of “the Sith” as we know it. Qimir even says “you would call me a Sith” meaning he clearly patterns himself after their teachings and may consider himself to be Sith but does that mean he’s a part of their order?

[round sparrow]

Ventress was not a Sith. Neither wass Savage and Maul dropped his Darth title. Dooku used Ventress and later Savage to become his apprentice if he felt he could get away with offing Palpatine. In the end, he felt it was wiser to give in when Palpatine caught on with Ventress and demanded Dooku kill her.
I fully believe Qimir wants a student because he wants to overhtrow his own master.

[hollow talon]

I would really like for Qimir to be in the legit Sith line.

But I know he doesn’t have to be for this story to work.

[arctic cloak]

Very much could be that or even a full out Ventress situation… Perhaps he was the unofficial apprentice to the apprentice who was dropped and is now doing his own thing. Look how deadly she was… Lots of cool possibilities

[round sparrow]

I foresee a couple of possibilities. Note that I'm not saying these are the only things that can happen to Qimir. 1) He is a Sith apprentice who has been trying to do his own thing and his Master tracks him down and puts an end to him. 2) He is just a Dark Sider who adheres to the teachings of the Sith and the true Sith Lord shows up to show him just how mistaken he is.

[fallen glen]

Well, if the series “changes” the meaning of the Rule of Two in a ‘always pairs’ meaning (even though George had possibly meant it that way), I don’t want to be on the internet…

[arctic cloak]

I have issues with him being a legit Sith, more so because I think his actions are a bit for lack of a better word clumsy. Someone earlier pointed out how calculating the Sith were, playing the long game in terms of hiding in plain sight while waiting for the perfect moment to strike and enact revenge. I think he had the former ok, but initiating an apprentice through killing Jedi just draws too much attention in my view and doesn’t strike me as how a true Sith Lord in that time period would act. It does strike me as something a headstrong apprentice might do so definitely possible. Again we have to see it play out.

[random pier]

Sithaboo. He found a holocron and went "oh this is me fr fr I'm totally a Sith".

[hollow talon]

Agreed about seeing it play out.
And I did envision him as a headstrong apprentice seeking acolytes, not the current master.

[hollow talon]

SITHABOO 🤣🤣

[random pier]

Rob came up with that. lol

[hollow talon]

I like it better than Edgesithlord.

[arctic cloak]

I think a lot of people get bogged down in the concept of Jedi=lightside and Sith=Darkside. One could follow the teachings of either and use those titles without necessarily being a formal part of the order. We’ve also seen other force groups in general- Ren, witches, Sith Eternal (lot more than two lol) so precedent is already there in canon. IMO Yodas “Always two there are” never precluded the idea that there weren’t multiple pairs practicing the same original teachings. We just get a narrower view of the galaxy in the films because they are focused on one family’s saga, so we only see the characters and stories pertinent to that

[lime loom]

Not just anyone can pick up a red lightsaber and call themselves a Sith they need Sith Training 🤓🤓

[arctic cloak]

Totally and I think @round sparrow is correct that at some point we’re going to see a pretty angry Sith Lord coming in to put Qimir in his place lol

[lime loom]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-count-dooku-general-grievous-clone-wars-don't-let-your-pursuit-of-trinkets-cloud-your-reality-gif-12856479710764962115

[runic badge]

Wtb a live action smackdown like Palpatine put on Maul and Savage

[lean thunder]

So uh... I have actually seen fire in a vacuum, but I can't post the video because the chemicals used to make the fire are under NDA.

It is really damn cool looking.

[hollow talon]

Even more than what could happen to Qimir, I’m very curious now about the fate of Sol and the twins.

Because regardless of a Sith Master showing up to smack Qimir, we know he would never tell the Jedi about the Sith, that’s why he wanted to kill everyone.

But Mae might (in some context that involves getting Osha back) be willing to spill the beans to the Jedi.

And Sol and Osha are (currently) loyal to the Jedi.

So what happens to prevent these three people sharing what they know?

[round sparrow]

Kinda like when the Mandarin sent his men to bring in Trevor Slattery after Iron Man 3.

[round sparrow]

It's also funny that people use the "there's nothing to fuel the fire" thing when 1) there's a stream of a gas of some variety literally RIGHT THERE, and 2) it started because of a busted pressure valve. What causes pressure in space? Atmosphere. Like...the fire isn't a leap. Of course, the other half of the complaint is the "crackling", but I felt that was pretty obviously in Osha's head because of the trauma flashback to the fire on Brendok.

[lean thunder]

So really you need fuel, oxygen, and ignition. In the case of what I saw, the oxygen was provided by the fuel being passed to the engine, and the fuel for the fire was the engine itself because it turned out what it was made of was hypergolic with oxygen at over <temperature>. The crackling can be ignored because lasers also don't make noise.

[arctic cloak]

Exactly

[arctic cloak]

Personal theory- We find out Qimir was a part of some group of Darkside users encountered by Sol, who possibly wiped them out, with Qimir being a survivor. Sol eventually puts two and two together and when reported to the Jedi Council the Sith connection is tenuous at best. In this theory Qimir could actually be a Sith apprentice but it’s overlooked by the Jedi in their hubris.

Other option is all Jedi involved die. I think from a story perspective this is tougher to pull off given what they were investigating. “All Jedi investigating the murder of Jedi never return/die under mysterious circumstances” lol

Could also play out entirely different

[zealous mauve]

We didn’t start the fire. It was always burning since the world’s been turning… 😉

[pulsar grove]

I think no Jedi will report the word "Sith" to the Order. For whatever reason.

I'm very curious whether "an Acolyte's function is to kill the dream the Jedi live in" (paraphrased) was just fancy words or if the Stranger had a specific intention there.

Was it just "continue advancing my goal," or "you can do a thing I am not able to do myself"?

[hollow talon]

I assume The Stranger meant “Destroy the delusion these four Jedi have been maintaining that they did everything right on Brendok, in order to damage the Jedi’s belief in themselves (and the Galaxy’s belief in the Jedi). This will be another fracture in the Jedi’s power and prestige, and another step closer to bringing them down.”

So I guess “continue advancing my goal” is what I assumed he meant.

And I do think Mae is/was in a better position to perform this specific fracture, because the story of the Jedi on Brendok is her story. And her revealing her face and story to the Jedi (which The Stranger can’t do) is needed for the truth of Brendok to be exposed.

An act of vengeance (and Jedi-shaming) means a lot more when coming from the injured party.

[pulsar grove]

I agree. It's the "an Acolyte kills that dream" phrasing, making it sound like any worthy Acolyte could do it, that makes me question if there could be more meaning to it.

But I don't expect it to be more than fancy talkin' in the end.

[hollow talon]

Up until Mae betrayed him, Qimir was doing his best to motivate her in her mission.

I assume that speech was part of it.

I think Qimir believed what he was saying, but he was saying it to give Mae a pep talk.

[dusky lark]

Clearly there is an atmosphere in this Galaxy as almost every ship is capable of large swooping turns.... in space. 🙂

[lean thunder]

Exactly!

[pulsar grove]

Star Wars and Treasure Planet in same universe confirmed.

[round sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/disbeav-beaver-burn-millenium-falcon-gif-8052609

"There's air in space in my universe...when I want it." -George Lucas

[spiral tiger]

I agree in that all of the jedi task force will die, but it'd be a nightmare for the Jedi PR team. If all of the Jedi task force, tasked with hunting this presumed sith, doesn't come back, it'd be assumed that the presumed sith killed all of them. It does make me curious how the Jedi would spin this situation. Perhaps a disgruntled dark Jedi who may have flew too close to the sun🤔

It'd be interesting if Qimir's one of those pick me, choose me, love me sith assassins similar to Ventress. Which could only mean...the master...is coming...

[round sparrow]

No no no. Not a presumed Sith. The word SITH was not mentioned until Qimir said it. The Jedi who sent Sol on this mission were operating under the presumption that it was a splinter group.

[spiral tiger]

Ahh yes yes good point. Their task was hunting Mae + any of her ragtag splinter group. It wasn't fully confirmed that sith may be in play till the Red Camping Trip

[round sparrow]

Exactly. So long as Sol doesn't report back, that's all it would be.

[spiral tiger]

The Jedi PR team's somewhere moonwalking and doing celebratory back flips rn

[pulsar grove]

It is interesting that by TPM, Sith are commonly known by members of the Order but presumed extinct, whereas the Stranger says it and there is no real indication that Sol has ever heard the word before.

Meanwhile, Qui-Gon can fight with Maul for ten seconds and absolutely knows he is a Sith.

[spiral tiger]

Qui-Gon's pretty open-minded compared to most other Jedi. His role in the films helps us to discern between the arrogance and pretentiousness of the council, vs. belief in mysticism and calling it like it is

While everyone else seemed to dance around the issue, Qui-Gon wasn't afraid to say the quiet part

[pulsar grove]

Could've solved a lot of problems by telling Obi-Wan to make sure Shmi got freed, though.

[spiral tiger]

Until the lion learns to write, all stories will glorify the hunter. It wouldn't be too far outta the realm of possibility that the Jedi engaged in a level of historical negotiations when it came to the Sith

[spiral tiger]

If we're being honest I think Qui-Gon may have just forgotten about it or put it on the to-do list for after the more pertinent stuff was wrapped up. The events of TPM occur over the span of like a week, so much happened within that week that Shmi's freedom may have got lost in translation

We know that Padme soon sent Sabé (i think) back to Tatooine to free Shmi, only to realize that the Lars dude already freed her

[arctic cloak]

In legends there was a book that actually explained this. Qui Gon put a plan in place for Shmi to gain her freedom, which Cliegg helped with. It was all told in flashback through a “journal” Han and Leia found while on a mission to Tatooine right after they were married. If I recall correctly it helped Leia to eventually agree with Han to have children, something she was divided on because of Vader…

[spiral tiger]

Qui-Gon dying really really threw a wrench in things. I've always felt bad for Obi-Wan because he had a front row seat to his father being slaughtered. He's then tasked with raising a child he genuinely didn't even want in the first place. He barely had time to grieve. Him being hard on Anakin was because Obi-Wan, deep down, was fearful that he'd fail his master.

[pulsar grove]

That is certainly a very convenient retcon.

The Cliegg thing.

[arctic cloak]

It wasn’t a retcon per se, just a story about how it went down as AOTC gave very vague information on the subject beyond Watto selling her and her getting freed/marrying Cliegg. That was all kept intact they just explained the details. I only read the book once though so I don’t remember all of it exactly. It was something as simple as Qui Gon sent her money or something valuable that Cliegg used to buy her from Watto. Nothing fancy or elaborate, it just established that Qui Gon didn’t just leave and forget the situation.

[keen vortex]

As the kids say: She's just like me fr!
https://fixupx.com/cursedhat/status/1807295594521923843?

[round sparrow]

I...what? When was this EVER stated? Because if that's the case, Wen why didn't they just go straight there?

[spiral tiger]

I think it was mentioned in either the Vader Comic series or those Queen Amidala novels from a few years back

I believe Padmé sent Sabé to free her, but Sabé's journey took a ton of unexpected turns, and she was unable to track Watto??? Disclaimer: I've yet to read any of the Vader Comics or those Queen Amidala novels so i could be wrong

[round sparrow]

Me meeting new people.

[arctic cloak]

A google search confirmed that this storyline about Sabe and Shmi did happen in a book called Queens Shadow

[spiral tiger]

Ahh that's the book! Yeaaaah it's a fun tid-bit that adds layers to Padmé as a character

[lean thunder]

Both of them. It's not a great story.

[green path]

Same tho

[keen vortex]

I saw a lot of people with Qimir's hair length yesterday at DTD.

And I'm thinking we're about to get a lot of Qimir/Stranger cosplays and Halloween costumes.

[dusky lark]

I hope they all hit the gym...

[leaden sundial]

just be glad if they wear deodorant, okay? xD

[dusky lark]

I am just imagining all the Sith getting together and quoting Henry Rollins 'THE IRON NEVER LIES!!!' 'SPOT ME BRO!!!' (that last one isnt Rollins)

...because they saw The strangers Insta feed...

[random pier]

getting pretty far from the Acolyte and better suited for #star-wars-universe

[keen vortex]

Nah. I love a Qimir in any shape/size.

I welcome them all.

Qimir is perfection. The arms were just a bonus.

[potent helm]

Yoda literally says a it. "always 2 there are, no more, no less"

[spiral tiger]

If anything, the events of this show could be what confirms this theory for Yoda

[potent helm]

maybe

or Qimir is just a dark side user who wants to kill jedi

[spiral tiger]

Also a possibility. I'm hoping he's the beginnings of the Knights of Ren tbh

[dusky lark]

Not sure of the KNights of Ren but wouldnt... Kylo Ren have started them?

[dusky lark]

I'd be loath to call a murderous pyschopath... perfection.

[random pier]

no, the Knights of Ren existed before Kylo did

[dusky lark]

What did they call themselves? The Knights of we are looking for a leader? Minions? The Knights who say.... no no I cant type it

[runic badge]

https://tenor.com/view/knights-who-say-ni-monty-gif-26984977

[spiral tiger]

I believe they use Ren as a title carried by their leader. Knights of Ren are literally...the Knights of Ren

Which, funny enough, have similar motives as Qimir! Big on doing whatever they want, whenever they want, with no deference for law and order

[arctic cloak]

Kinda like the Darth title

[spare crane]

Knights of Ren spoiler: || The leaders name was Ren, and Ben Solo took the name when he killed him. Ren also had scars similar to the stranger ||

[fallen glen]

Always 2 goalkeepers there are. No more, no less.
That doesn’t necessarily out rule other matches or teams.

[potent helm]

That is a terrible analogy lol

[fallen glen]

Yes. But what I’m trying to say is without more context Yoda’s quote alone can mean anything from the Rule of Two to they never work alone when they show up, so there must be another somewhere.

[potent helm]

Ok well here's the wiki page on it with a whole list of sources citing its canonicity
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Rule_of_Two

Looks like it's mentioned directly in Rebels and TCW

[lime loom]

https://tenor.com/view/alwaystwothereare-nomore-noless-amaster-andanapprentice-gif-20806091

Here’s some more Sith Lore
“Sharing power is an act of weakness and a violation of the Sith Code” is my fav

(Ignore Luke’s comment 😈 he’s gone now)

[round sparrow]

... Except teaching a student IS sharing power?

[lime loom]

“No, the Force is venom. If it is poured into many cups, it loses its potency until it becomes so diluted it is merely an irritant.
Yet pour those cups back into a single vessel a SINGLE VESSEL and you will have the power to stop a Krayt dragon’s heart”

[round sparrow]

What does the book teach about dramatic entrances?

[hollow talon]

“Do them.”

“Or someone else will do them better and everyone will laugh at you.”

[lean thunder]

Or Yoda is just wrong. This is the era where they Jedi were convinced that Midichlorians controlled your ability to use the force after all.

[keen vortex]

Yoda is wrong is a neat idea.

[keen vortex]

I thought your analogy very clever.

[keen vortex]

This may just mean any one Sith lord shouldn't have more than one student.

Or focus on too many skills.

It's a bit narrow-minded to think only two people of the darkside exist at any given time. The darkside is appealing, alluring. And the ability to use the Force is shared by quite a few people spread across an entire galaxy. Galaxy. Not just a single solar system.

[leaden sundial]

but ||Ren is also the name of the sword around which they built their cult. it's supposed to be a single bladed saber with a self destruct feature.||

[spare crane]

i'm having a hard time finding Knights of Ren stories, what is this from?

[fallen glen]

No, it’s not. Have you actually looked at the references and sources? TCW is exclusively used for the “historic” background and Rebels source a companion book or comic. I don’t believe the Rule of Two is ever explained as such in a movie or series episode.

[leaden sundial]

i believe it's spread out over a few comics. a lot in Qi'ra's in Crimson Reign and Bounty Hunters. also Rise of Kylo Ren (||talks about how he defeated the Ren before him and what he did with the saber||)

Hidden Empire, maybe too?

[fallen glen]

That would make sense!

[potent helm]

No one is saying that. But there's a difference between Sith and someone who wields the dark side of the force. Witches of Dathomir or the ones in this show aren't Sith but they do wield the Force and use dark side elements

The rule of two applies to sith only

[lime loom]

Thank youuu 🙏

[potent helm]

I'd have to go back and watch those episodes where it says it's mentioned to see, but regardless it's canon until it's not.

[lime loom]

I got y’all

https://youtu.be/mdSw1LqpU_s?si=ueVQ9lBwn5-JFhZI

☝️🤓

[round sparrow]

Dooku broke the rule of two twice, both with the intention of overthrowing Sidious when the time was right. Vader was attempting to do the same.

[potent helm]

Perhaps, or perhaps that's just what he told them and Sidious knew about them both

[pulsar grove]

We've only seen two titled Sith at a time. Ventress and Opress weren't Darths.

Just dark side Force users.

[lean thunder]

Given that's our only source, why are we assuming that the ghost of Darth Bane is telling the truth to his enemy?

[round sparrow]

Sidious knew. It's what Sith apprentices do. He threw down the gauntlet by telling Dooku to kill Ventress. Dooku obliged because he knew Ventress wasn't strong enough to stand with him against Sidious.

[pulsar grove]

Maul even lost his Sith-ness. It's an appointed title, not a state of being.

[potent helm]

You're also assuming that Dooku actually wanted to try to overthrow Sidious. Give the look of shock on his face when Sidious told Anakin to kill him he may not have wanted to

[lime loom]

Yeah I don’t remember Dooku wanting to overthrow Sidious he respected him

[potent helm]

He probably told ventress and savage that but that doesn't mean anything, he also told them they were going to be sith

[round sparrow]

A Sith apprentice only becomes a master by killing their own master.

[potent helm]

Not sure what that has to do with Dooku and him wanting to kill sidious or not

[round sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/jarjar-binks-mygiveup-gif-21799867

[spare crane]

It would make sense that if a Sith apprentice wants to "overthrow" a Sith master, you're kinda stuck with killing the master.

[round sparrow]

It's very Klingon in a way lol

[spare crane]

that's what a do with dooku

[spare crane]

https://tenor.com/view/lick-lips-lick-tongue-out-creepy-gif-17520936

[round sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/glory-to-you-and-your-house-gowron-star-trek-deep-space-hail-to-thee-and-to-thy-house-gif-23454581

[lime loom]

https://tenor.com/view/luke-skywalker-luke-creepy-angry-mad-gif-25114746

[vague leaf]

I'm about to Google how to delete someone else's comment. Please never post that again. 🤣

(ignore the point that I could easily, in fact, delete that comment... It ruins the fun).

[lean thunder]

Well since we're on the subject of Robert O'Reilly... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agy7tFNt_A8

[keen vortex]

To bring it back on topic, both Qimir and Manny say Qimir is sith.

[spare crane]

I read Rise of Kylo Ren and forgot about that part. I'm excited to finally put my marvel unlimited subscription to good use.

[fallen glen]

But in one point Darth Bane is wrong. The Sith STILL kill each other. See above.

His rule didn’t exactly change that. It just reduces the scale.

[keen vortex]

Did the Inverse article get shared yet?

https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/leslye-headland-acolyte-episode-5-interview-star-wars-qimir-cortosis

[round sparrow]

Maul reiterates Yoda's TPM line/Rule of Two in the S2 finale Twilight of the Apprentice. When they're trying to go up the Sith [temple? suppose they do call it a battlestation] he mentions "only two, no more no less" may go up at a time

But yes aside from those lines im not sure anything (in shows/movies) cover it in depth

I believe theyve made it so that the rule of two was inspired by/made in the hopes of creating a Force Dyad, but that doesnt rule out the og reason being canon as well

[keen vortex]

Exactly how I saw this scene

[pulsar grove]

Interesting that the interviewer/writer seems to think the Stranger intentionally swapped the twins. I'm reasonably sure that is not the case.

[spiral tiger]

Yeah it's purposely left to be pretty vague. Yoda, like most Jedi we've seen thus far, wasn't alive when the Sith were deemed extinct. Most of his understanding of the Sith (assumingely) comes from hearsay and discovery of Sith artifacts. I've always viewed any sort of mysticism in star wars similarly to the interpretation of religion in our galaxy. Some may interpret certain parables/texts/artifacts/prophecies more literal than others, all while others may not put any weight in such things at all. We've seen how much weight some Jedi put into prophecies (most thought they were baseless and stories for children), as well as how they viewed Jedi mystics like Qui-Gon

[round sparrow]

He didn't kill Osha and had numerous opportunities to do so.

[hollow talon]

Being marked as a potential student by a Sith is a complex situation.

On the one hand, the Sith will want to keep the prospect alive and mostly healthy in order to make them their pupil.

On the other hand, the point of being a pupil is being tested. So the Sith is going to want to repeatedly put the prospect’s life in danger in order to push them to react and survive and win.

There’s no point in taking on a weak student, after all.

So while The Stranger was definitely not putting too much of his focus on killing Osha, he didn’t want to make it easy for her either.

[pulsar grove]

I wasn't suggesting he wanted to kill her.

I was saying I don't think he told Mae to impersonate her, which seems to be the article writer's belief.

[keen vortex]

It would be interesting if he did.

And would explain why he let Mae live.

[potent helm]

Well he doesn't say "I'm a sith" he says that the Jedi would probably call him that. And I wouldn't take what the actor says as canon just yet

[pulsar grove]

I'm pretty sure he's a Sith.

What being a Sith now means is subject to clarification.

[lean thunder]

It's a feeling. Halfway between hungry and angry, but inverted from hangry.

[pulsar grove]

Ungry?

[arctic cloak]

I think this is key right here

[round sparrow]

Yeah, that wasn't just there for no reason. Musical motifs are important in Star Wars.

[jade grail]

👀👀👀

[spare crane]

Knights of Ren confirmed

[pulsar grove]

That's the bit of the interview that really felt spoily to me.

[keen vortex]

Wiggles excitedly

[lean thunder]

Eh, it might just mean that Qimir puts on a real good show for a bit, but Osha will reject him when she sees through it.

Or it might not and we'll get some interesting turnabout with Mae having to help Sol hunt down his former padawan and her former master at the same time.

All the options!

[spare crane]

Rey’s real parents confirmed

[lean thunder]

I mean... sure. Why not?

[keen vortex]

chants reylo reylo reylo

Oshamir oshamir oshamir

[pulsar grove]

I've been kind of assuming the season will end with Acolyte Osha.

The interview did not dissuade me.

[keen vortex]

We had Rey bring Kylo to the light. Now we can have Qimir bring Osha to the dark.

[lean thunder]

little a corruption, as a treat

[keen vortex]

beams

[jade grail]

O_o

[runic badge]

It’ll be interesting to see more of their ethos. When Qimir said “rules, rules, rules” at Sol it sounded more like a hatred/snide attitude about all rules, not just Jedi ones. I’d guess he got a taste of Sith training but then was just like, “nah, I don’t like your rules either”

[keen vortex]

I hate my phone.

[runic badge]

Very…nihilist

[keen vortex]

But I'll be happy to see Christine finally choose Erik.

[proper python]

FOR THE STORM

wait

[keen vortex]

Well tbf rules can be pretty stupid.

Especially unspoken rules set up hundreds of years ago by very different people who thought ankles showing was taboo.

Jedi and Sith probably both have dumb rules.

[hollow talon]

I know it makes me a square, but I’m kind of a fan of the rule that says people shouldn’t use their magic life energy powers to subjugate and murder me and/or others.
That’s the rule I’m worried about Qimir breaking.

[round sparrow]

Here's the thing. There's a lot about Episode 3 that doesn't add up as we saw it. I've been thinking...what if the either A) The Jedi wanted to take both girls or B) The Witch Council decided the Jedi couldn't have either child.

[hollow talon]

https://tenor.com/view/why-not-both-why-not-take-both-gif-11478682

[keen vortex]

Until told otherwise I believe Mama Aniseya would have let Osha follow her dream.

[round sparrow]

I agree, but the rest of the Coven might have outvoted her.

[keen vortex]

Very possible.

[keen vortex]

It's fiction! I can let my evil out.

[potent helm]

would really love to see Osha turn to the dark side

that would be interesting imo

[spare crane]

All three of them

[keen vortex]

kicky feet

Besides is it really that evil to want love for neat characters?

Let them be happy.

[heady ore]

I dunno, I kinda suspect this is going to be a very few to no one walks away sort of deal by the end.

The Sith remain a mystery cause.....well no witnesses.

[keen vortex]

I am darkness!! Two seconds later: I am dying on my kitchen floor because I tried to swallow tylenol with Coke and choked.

[lean thunder]

I don't think she would. I think she'd have pretended to, but "arranged" things so that it wouldn't work out.

[keen vortex]

Just sitting here on my "just peachy" peach shaped rug.

[lean thunder]

Someone here did point out that Mae's eyes when she was lighting the fire looked a lot like Torbin's when he was under Aniseya's control.

[keen vortex]

Nooo. Not Aniseya! I refuse to believe it.

Good moms only.

[crimson leaf]

I know this is going to make me sound like a huge dork, but Mother Aniseya and her giving Osha permission to leave reminded me of a similar scene in the manga Hunter X Hunter, where the leader of a clan of assassins permits his son to leave the family business to pursue his dreams. He later reveals that he did this because he knew that his son would inevitably return to the fold, because he would be unable to resist his true nature.

[round sparrow]

I think it was in Osha's vision. Which....that could bode worse?

[crimson leaf]

I want to believe that Mother Aniseya meant what she said, but I can't help but wonder if she was being subtle, knowing that it would be better for Osha to leave and then return willingly.

[round sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/mae-aniseya-the-acolyte-leah-brady-star-wars-black-eyes-gif-10466694484557805042

[pulsar grove]

Yeah, it was in the vision.

Mother Aniseya also said Osha would never see her again if she left. I think she was sincere about both, but it was also pretty clear that their other mother was less accepting.

[surreal solar]

Need the mother's back so bad 😩 😩😩😩😩

[pulsar grove]

I'm sure we'll see them again.

[proper python]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-luke-skywalker-no-ones-ever-really-gone-mark-hamill-the-last-jedi-gif-26010275

[round sparrow]

Except Jabba. To heck with Jabba.

[pulsar grove]

But when will Stinky return??

[keen vortex]

Hamlet was my favorite Shakes' work. Until I read Julius Caesar. Still Hammie boy is a very close second.

(He loathed being called Shakes. And it is information I'll never forget.)

[heady ore]

Lol. I feel like that's where this is going to go. This ep was just.....the start of what's to come. My guess is that even the Council member who is calling the shots comes to check things out and goes missing by the end, so the councils wisdom wanes further. This is speeding up the Jedi's collapse, like chipping away at a column supporting a building.

[round sparrow]

https://x.com/sw_holocron/status/1808018136622383157

Star Wars Holocron (@sw_holocron) on X

Manny Jacinto prepared for his role as The Stranger / Qimir in The Acolyte by walking like Qimir at a local grocery store and speaking in character to the cashier before making the switch to the menacing The Stranger

Twitter · Jul 2, 2024, 6:01 AM

[pulsar grove]

In front of the cashier?

[random pier]

I mean. Don't creep out retail workers.

[pulsar grove]

Unexpectedly, the cashier is now a Sith acolyte.

[zealous mauve]

Episode 8 reveal spoiled! 😳

[hollow talon]

If he did this in a part of California that has movie studios or is often used for filming locations, possibly the cashiers are used to actors practicing characters when buying groceries.

Otherwise yeah, that might have been disconcerting.

Then again a big part of the Qimir persona is saying “hello” and “hi!” in a slightly jovial yet wimpy manner.

Which is a normal way to communicate at the grocery store.

[random pier]

I'm just remembering working at Publix as a teenager and men saying some of the creepiest and/or grossest stuff because I was a captive audience. So Manny "making the switch to being the menacing The Stranger", yuck. Don't be menacing at the grocery store.

[pulsar grove]

Indeed.

[lean thunder]

Yeah that's not cool.

[wheat cobalt]

That has Jared Leto vibes. Method acting can be a good tool for getting into character, but not at the expense of others

[lean thunder]

Let's not go that far. Jared Leto is a notably terrible person.

[wheat cobalt]

Yeah Leto has a lot more against him

[pulsar grove]

It was admittedly the first thing I thought of.

[keen vortex]

Haha oh man have I had experiences. That would not have phased me in the least.

Maybe it would for a newbie. But someone changing their voice and getting suddenly serious wouldn't even make the creepy list for all my experience.

[lean thunder]

That just speaks to problems with how the USA treats retail workers in general rather than excusing Manny's behaviour TBH.

[keen vortex]

Or blowing two sentences on the internet out of proportion and dogpiling before having more information.

Or both.

[lean thunder]

Nah, this is kind of an international meme. When US-based family visit I tend to just trail after them and apologise to staff in shops and restaurants on their behalf.

[random pier]

Just because it wouldn't bother you does not mean you should diminish that it DOES bother others. It bothered the hell out of me.

"Wouldn't even make my creepy list" does not make it ok.

[keen vortex]

You weren't that cashier.

You don't have that information.

What bothers you may have not even been a thing in this instance.

[keen vortex]

And I never said that. Kindly please don't twist my words to fit your judgmental narrative.

[random pier]

You weren't there either, and "that wouldn't have been creepy" since you find the actor and/or character sexy doesn't make it acceptable behavior.

[lean thunder]

I think you are kind of talking past each other a bit here.

[keen vortex]

Again my words and now opinions are being twisted. Not cool.

[proper python]

I just really hope that was just a poorly written sentence and Manny wasn't out there testing his acting out on unsuspecting cashiers just trying to do their job. Practicing goofy Qimir is one thing, but suddenly switching to a villain character while someone is just trying to ring up your groceries for probably minimum wage feels exploitive to me even if it would be far from the creepiest thing I would have experienced as a cashier (would have because to my knowledge no actors ever practiced their acting on my while I was working).

[keen vortex]

I'm still waiting for an apology at the wild assumptions and insult to my character.

[round sparrow]

Me, looking at what happened here:

https://tenor.com/view/arrested-development-season1-comedy-gob-ive-made-a-huge-mistake-gif-3450456

[keen vortex]

Right?

How dare I share my experience and then say no it's not ok to be attacked. You'd think I did something much worse.

I didn't kill Jecki. Lol

[dusky lark]

...and on other days, it just rains.

[zealous mauve]

Just because I felt momentarily inspired…

[lyric gate]

So I was discussing Ep 5 with my friend who runs a comedy troupe and this happened:

[round sparrow]

I'm no better, I quipped "Well, I guess they took the complaints about people surviving lightsaber stabs and took it to heart and lungs.". Hahaha...I laugh so I don't cry.

[lyric gate]

https://tenor.com/view/johny-gif-27696534

[quasi flame]

Which channels are we allowed spoilers?

[round sparrow]

Hey, I felt bad making the joke. Jecki and Sol are my favorite characters in this dang show and I just know I'm gonna lose Sol too.

[jolly hill]

Every episode of the Acolyte has his own thread and spoilers are permitted in their respective threads.

[fallen glen]

You know what? When she got the first wound, I immediately thought “Well, she can survi…” … second and third wound… “NOOOOoooo…”

[pulsar grove]

She's probably okay.

[lean thunder]

Theelins don't keep anything vita in their torso. She's FIIIIINE.

[round sparrow]

They also sleep with their eyes open. Like wizards! She's FIIIIIIIINE.