division-universe

[sick lantern]

I even got little sticky notes and a pen

I was ready for the inserts

[pulsar oracle]

Have you seen the movie "Sicario", you're giving me those vibes with a new The Division set around the souther part, @sick lantern.

😋

[sick lantern]

I have not seen it

[pulsar oracle]

Looks for the Sicario - Border Ambush clip on YouTube.

They look more militarized, like LMB.

[sick lantern]

yea exactly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3wQMNMma6g

[pulsar oracle]

Oh yes, I have seen things like that.

Take into account, the MS-13 was created by ex-soldiers if I remember well.

Its a vicious gang that has done horrible things, still they better geared up than most army corps on some other countries.

[pulsar oracle]

Oh, @spare arrow? Another one hacked with Discord gift?

[gaunt ice]

Dude what

You’re telling me that’s a drug cartel convoy?

[sick lantern]

ofc it's possible that they tried to big themselves up a little but yea cartels in Mexico/South and Central America are crazy powerful

[sick lantern]

"using drones to attack their enemies. U.S. prosecutors have said operatives of the cartel tried to buy belt-fed M-60 machine guns in the United States, and once brought down a Mexican military helicopter with a rocket-propelled grenade. As of 2020, the CJNG is generally considered by the Mexican government to be the most dangerous criminal organization in Mexico and the second most powerful drug cartel in the country"

[gaunt ice]

the Yankees probably funded them

[sleek plover]

damn

I hate LMB

[gaunt ice]

i'm a bit salty how there's not a single LMB reference in WoNY apart from the trailers,they literally all die?

[cold bramble]

Nah one of the Arcana deck in WONY is explicitly an LMB rusher that signed on with BT after they showed up

[sick lantern]

yea but the arcana and deck of 52 descriptions are kinda bloody stupid aren’t they

[ashen jungle]

boy did you walk into the wrong channel.

[gaunt ice]

This is the shut down your brain channel

[ashen jungle]

snitch cards are kinda loved by everyone, or at least everyone I've seen on here.

the fact that one of them is a furry with a gun just makes them unbeatable.

[sick lantern]

People actually like those?

[ashen jungle]

You're weird.

One of them is literally an outcast who infected orphans via a puppy.

[sick lantern]

they belong in a borderlands game

[ashen jungle]

I feel like I should say that they're a moment of levity in a very serious story+setting, allowing us to better connect with the world of div2.

if you really want serious, you can go to the Quarantine zones and hear about how someone's new wife died an hour after childbirth.

[sick lantern]

i understand that but “HE KILLS PUPPIES!!!!!!!” ain’t it

[ashen jungle]

Div1 had the exact same stuff, just mostly via Rick Valassi.

this is concealed, you never have to see it if you choose not to.

[gaunt ice]

I mean,actual LMB forces in NYC

Even after the APC incident you can’t convince me they all died or joined BT

[low bluff]

they're literally all black tusk now

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/thedivision/images/4/45/LMB_Tier_2_-_Falcon_Lost_Patrol.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20160827014300

their white camo pants are the same as the black tusk camo

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/thedivision/images/7/7e/1548413386_main.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20201217182808

[sick lantern]

@low bluff

[low bluff]

I mean if LMB as an organization was acquired by BT then yeah they'd all be BT by now

[sick lantern]

except they weren't exactly organised by the time the BT showed up

as evidenced by the fact that an amount of them defected to the JTF/Peacekeepers

[low bluff]

they were a very small scope PMO who just decided to stop protecting wall street and do their own thing

[sick lantern]

"very small scope" which is why they occupied swathes of territory and were equipped with top of the line fifty calibre autoturrets, SAMs, ballistic shields and nanotechnology health stations?

[low bluff]

*compared to black tusk

[woven basalt]

there was some throwaway voiceline in div1 that said someone else took up leadership, but i think that was just to explain why they were still on the map after bliss died, especially since it seemed forgotten by div2.

[sick lantern]

we spent a lot of time in UG and Falcon Lost sweeping up every wannabe Bliss, to the point that some of them got desperate enough to work with the likes of the Rikers (WSP)

[gaunt ice]

Nanomachines son

[sick lantern]

the answer to everything

or nanoservos or AI/supercomputers :p

[sick lantern]

or THE PATRIOTS

[gaunt ice]

It is absurd how division is getting closer and closer to MGS every new addition to the franchise

[sick lantern]

if there is no sneaking suit in heartland, we riot xd

[gaunt ice]

Can’t wait for Ellis to come back to life with nanomachines

Or the D1 agent fighting Keener like the final fight in Guns of the Patriot

[sick lantern]

the patriots black tusk will revive him as a cyborg, and then he will redeem himself as he dies again

[sick lantern]

I was going to say “I hope there’s some better cinematic setpieces in Heartland” but I don’t think this franchise does that

maybe if they do like Warface though 🤔

[woven basalt]

i think wony kinda did it with the level designs.

but yeah, unless they're gonna add "doors" to other smaller maps, i wouldn't get any hopes up on heartland doing anything like that.

[tiny wraith]

Afternoon Hopper and metal

[sick lantern]

👋

[sleek plover]

Hello, Damn I hate LMB

[unreal widget]

Well then it's a good thing that you are their destroyer.

[gaunt ice]

aren't we all?

[unreal widget]

True 🤔

[feral tusk]

now my question is what happened to the second wave agents (AKA: you) that were in NY?

[sick lantern]

it’s not said

[gaunt ice]

if you notice a bit,Faye has 2 watches on her,1 on the hand,the other strapped to the bag,both of them being red

so my theory is that if one of them is Faye's,then the other one might belong to your d1 agent(weak link ik)

[full fox]

what about the numerous watches on that one hunter backpack? 🤔

[late void]

All hunters make a habit of killing shd agents, that's basically their hobby

[sick lantern]

maybe it's from that one rogue agent she interrogated

[cold bramble]

Given the leadup to Liberty Island involves "yeah, Theo put a backdoor in his watch and we found it", my own guess would be that one of them is Theo's

[gaunt ice]

That’s Circe,anddd we killed her in the manhunt

[gaunt ice]

Oh crap I forgot

It is Parnell’s 😦

[fleet rover]

who's the most dumbest agent? fan/head-canon wise

[sick lantern]

Keener

[gaunt ice]

nah it's the guy in the WoNY trailer that tries to fight Keener and 4 rogues with nothing but a MPX and cluster seekers,head on

[sick lantern]

that guy was a chad

as if he couldn’t have taken em? we do shit like that all the time

[gaunt ice]

HIS MPX DOESNT EVEN HAVE ATTACHMENTS LMAO

[sleek plover]

I want to see their remnants and former LMB black tusks to be even more humiliated and distraught. Hearing them going "i was just following orders!" "why are you doing this to us!" "we were just trying to help!" "spare me, please!" while begging for mercy would be so satisfying.

I mean i want to see the humiliated and offended true son remnants after we killed ridgeway and had our fireworks party.

[unreal widget]

Yup, you really do hate them. 😂

[tiny wraith]

Afternoon isabel

[lucid zinc]

impossible

I wonder where the hunter originated from

[lucid zinc]

in the D1 it said that keener left to buy milk🥛 and never returned to NYC

[sick lantern]

well they have already established they're willing to resurrect characters lol

[lucid zinc]

thats when they r barely dead

like 5-10min not 5 weeks

plus the black tusk didn't bother checking on the body

[sick lantern]

who's to say no one came in 5-10 minutes after us and saved him?

[lucid zinc]

replay the mission. After that women killed him (i fogor her name) she told all of the black tusk to kill us

[sick lantern]

And?

[lucid zinc]

and

if Ellis was to be revived then we would've grabbed him and chuck him to jail

also he was shot in the head

[sick lantern]

Hornet got any combination of shocked, burned, maimed with shrapnel and shot to shit like Scarface but that didn't stop him

[lucid zinc]

true but the first div agent left quickly giving keener's ally a chance to rev him

[sick lantern]

plus you can survive getting shot in the head

[lucid zinc]

well thats just us

[sick lantern]

No, it's real

[lucid zinc]

true

but you would have some sort of disability

[sleek plover]

So considering its february 10th now, maybe waiting for new content is a lost cause.

[woven basalt]

they could bring him back as an uploaded consciousness AI like ANNA.

[sick lantern]

u wot

[fleet rover]

is it possible for the SHD to recruit criminals?

[gaunt ice]

Remember that one bit in WD Legion where one of the villains put her mother into a computer to become the house AI?
Yeah at this point they can do that to Keener and I just won’t care

This story has gone to shit since they did Keener that dirty

[sick lantern]

Almost definitely not

[gaunt ice]

given how loose the recruitment standards are i'd say they would at some point

Conley was mentally unstable way before Green Poison and they still recruit her

[sick lantern]

Due to your prior message I don’t take this into consideration

[gaunt ice]

i mean,they can

technically speaking Dragov has a criminal family as his backgrounds,so there is a stretch?

[late void]

I take it you haven't been keeping an eye on #news-and-announcements then?

[gaunt ice]

@sick lantern imagine

Razorback with legs

[sick lantern]

don't give them ideas
although I don't doubt someone at massive had this one already xd

[gaunt ice]

MG Razorback

insert Rules of nature as the division 3 agent suplex the razorback

fr though,the div1 agent already has a quite impressive feat of skills,div2 agent exceeds that way too far,so what's next?

[spare arrow]

Div 3 agent is just raiden

[sick lantern]

We've managed to avoid drowning!

[gaunt ice]

also all of the other MG games have also happened in this universe,so there's a point where Snake just look at the TV,sees Raiden and spits his coffee when the TV said he threw a giant MG and cut it in half mid air

[spare arrow]

Mgs4 snake is probably dead when revengeance takes place

probably

[gaunt ice]

probably implies that there's a slight chance he's still alive

[spare arrow]

I mean its set 4 years after mgs4, and snake was given a year at most due to his aging (just mgs4 things)

[gaunt ice]

tbf he's still fit enough to fight for his country(?) in mgs4,so 50/50

also weird steroids dose thingy

[spare arrow]

Something something clone, accelerated aging, something something dead in a year

[gaunt ice]

that's really complicated for a game whose message can be shortened as "war bad"

and "MEMES" at one point

[spare arrow]

The DNA of the soul.

[tiny wraith]

afternoon metal

[sick lantern]

👋

[tepid ibex]

Never doubt the possibility of the return of the LMB, foe!

[sleek plover]

Indeed nemesis!

[gaunt ice]

LMB technically still exists as a PMC in the world of Division

They just weren’t acknowledging any of Bliss’s actions in NYC nor associated with it(at least they claimed so)

And yes,I know Bliss is the founder of LMB,but it also has a board of directors too iirc

[woven basalt]

the lmb was portrayed as a cult of personality built around bliss, so it's hard to imagine them disavowing him... unless they rebranded, but then they wouldnt really be the lmb anymore.

[gaunt ice]

i mean,people in a PMC is usually in for the money,so it's safe to say only the ones in NYC formed a cult

there are LMB soldiers who disagrees with Bliss's methods and ran away from it way before Bliss went up in....well,bliss in that helicopter

[woven basalt]

you're ignoring the way the lmb was portrayed, with the soldiers loyal (to a fault) because of his charisma.

it was a cult before they were called into nyc

https://thedivision.fandom.com/wiki/Early_Days

[gaunt ice]

ok,that i miss

but the way it's said in that audio can be interpreted that he's just a great leader,nothing as big as cult status

great leaders in an army is a common trope

[woven basalt]

"they always follow you. they'd follow you to the gates of hell" is the line people most associate with bliss and his hold on his men.

and how easily they fell into the totalitarianism

is a sign as well of his hold

[gaunt ice]

again,a really great leader/role model to his soldiers.
one of the agents guarding the DZ checkpoint also has that to say about our div1 agent in the "Shepherd" shield audio recording:https://thedivision.fandom.com/wiki/Phone_Recordings/Shields

does that mean our agent has a cult?not really

same can be said for Bliss.yeah maybe the NYC one is definitely cult-like,but you can't say the same for the rest of the company

[woven basalt]

im taking everything into account, not isolating everything

all the evidence point to it, not a single point by itself

we know it turned into a cult of personality, and then on top, they show us threads that lead back to that behaviour back overseas

also, which audio file am i supposed to be looking at

[gaunt ice]

i mean,it can also be explained he has established a great relationship with people under him,which only evolved to a cult status at NYC.And,a lot of people just snaps in times like that too

[woven basalt]

theres so many in that link, and a search of "gates of hell" came up nill

[gaunt ice]

i quite literally said "the Shepherd shield audio recording"

[woven basalt]

because the DZ is magic and makes people completely different than before they entered?

[gaunt ice]

it sorta implies that whatever super John Wick bollocks we pulled up in NYC is done by 1 lad,and it's canon

not necessarily dz stuff

just story stuff by itself

[woven basalt]

if the soldiers where truly opportunist only looking for money, you'd think at some point one of them would try to increase theyre share by "killing the king", something that repeats all throughout history. those guys were loyal. to a fault.

[gaunt ice]

they recruit new people all the time though

[woven basalt]

bliss did. (until he died). by his charisma. "You've always been good at leading soldiers. Leading them into battle, leading them to join up with a new PMC - they're always willing to follow."

im just going with what the game told me, thats the way things were portrayed.

in that novel though, some of them def didnt agree with bliss... what was it called

dammit... its on the tip of my tongue... the one with the cleaners.

[woven basalt]

oh i see it now, guess it skimmed it too fast. interesting that they used the same thing twice in the same game.

instead of say, "to the ends of the earth" or something that meant the same thing.

[sick lantern]

hearts on fire

[magic sail]

@pulsar oracle in general, i think the overall writing in div2 was much worse than in div1
div1 had an easy setup for storytelling, because there was an obvious crisis to structure a plot around
but the antagonists in div1 were, for the most part, terrible, outside of joe ferro, and i don't personally think any of div2's characters were especially compelling

[sick lantern]

rip that message

[magic sail]

shrug it be what it be

i dunno. i just didn't like keener's character writing. he seemed too much like a B-movie villain once massive tried to do an actual plot with him visible as an antagonist.

[sick lantern]

Larae was definitely bombastic enough to be memorable, but the villains sort of represented the themes of their faction and how the SHD overcame more and more powerful adversaries

[pulsar oracle]

Wait! @magic sail! I have no idea on The Division 2 ending yet.

[magic sail]

ah, my b, sorry

[pulsar oracle]

I can talk up to Keener's Cell, which I'm doing.

No worries! What you said is true, though... the story is compelling in the first one.

A more sort of a "novel" if you want to say too.

Joe Ferro was brokenhearted with the loss of his wife.

LaRae Barrett, well... we needed a good ole' crazy character, so its okay.

And Charles Bliss, I'm okay with it, but needed a bit more of work.

Aside from that, its good to see more work on Paul Rhodes and Roy Benitez on the second one.

The story has more attention to a lot of characters, more than the first one... but the first one was all about the main campaign, which made it incredible.

(I'll be playing in the meantime, but I will be here to answer, so worry not!)

[magic sail]

i was not a fan, tbh
a) massive's token attempt at including a person of color in their game turned out to be somebody with pretty terrible characterization, imo, because:
b) barrett and the rikers come off as the blackest of black-and-white morality, which is very not reflective and frankly almost a flip-flop of the actual state of incarceration in the US at present, and it's just not satisfying, to me

[sick lantern]

that's a valid criticism

[pulsar oracle]

I suppose it could be true, yes... but sometimes we need some fictional characters. Yes, the event was more "real" than anything and then COVID-19 made you look this game on another lens, but if we go deep on that one, we get lost... XD

[magic sail]

massive, in general, spent a lot of time trying to convince you, the player, that the rioters, cleaners, rikers, and LMB are the baddest of bad people
and it certainly hits home, what they show you
but then you realize that, if this game is supposed to have some ties to reality as we know it, these groups of people have black enough morality to be almost comically unrealistic

and you have to roll your eyes a little bit, at how hard they try to maintain a fiction that you're the good guys and they're the bad guys

as has been pointed out before, though, this is a hallmark of tom clancy games, and you just kinda have to roll with the punches

but the plot setup the division 1 used made me think that they would maybe try something a little different

[sick lantern]

actually I wouldn't say they tried to make us think they were so evil
Faye says about the cleaners "a draconian solution, but highly effective" and Rhodes even compliments them
The LMB are trying to bring order to chaos, they see themselves as the good guys and their motives are explained enough that you can understand why they do what they do, that they're not trying to be evil but that in their eyes they did the right thing, same with the cleaners
and rioters and rikers, having people who react to the crisis by only looking out for themselves or use the lack of consequence to live in freedom, is close enough to reality in my eyes

[magic sail]

the cleaners, i will concede, were well-done as an antagonist faction

[pulsar oracle]

On the case of the Cleaners, the footage or some recordings made them look terrifying, yet they closer to each other in some sense.

But the Rikers felt llike the classic Arkham inmates.

[magic sail]

the hangup with the rikers that i have is still that the entire concept really stems from stereotypes of what the public perceives incarcerated prisoners to be

and the reality, i think, is far from it

it really seems like they turned the cynicism dial to 11 on "everybody just becoming as terrible as possible"

[sick lantern]

that is true but the game does touch on that to a degree
there's the phone recording where the reporter/news guy suggests cutting off support to the prison and Rick Valassi says "the harmless ones are gonna head for home, it's the hardtime that you've got to worry about"

[magic sail]

it feels like the writers didn't trust that writing protagonists with grey morality would sufficiently convince players that these were bad people that needed to be shot, so they just fell back on "making the baddies as bad as possible"
but i also suppose i shouldn't expect every game to be like Spec Ops: The Line in terms of exploring the gray moralities of war

i just was hoping that massive's writers would have taken a few more risks in writing unconventional antagonists

the writers seem to expect the player to connect the kinda vague thematic dots instead of making a strong case themselves as far as thematic elements

[pulsar oracle]

It takes time to create a proper idea like that, Goose.

Like both you and Ray said, the Cleaners were the closest on that.

Here for the second, I'm still divided... The Outcasts were the closest ones, but the True Sons were a force to be reckoned, story wise.

[magic sail]

yeah, this is ultimately an oogy boogy point and shooty game
but, if massive was going to go out on a limb like this and attempt to tell this kinda story, i wanted them to go all the way

[sick lantern]

I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[pulsar oracle]

After all, its a game, true... and they needed to put some more "classic" bad guys if you want to put it that way.

[magic sail]

i think it creates a bit more risk as far as "will the player take away the message i was trying to deliver, or will they end up reading it a different way that i didn't intend"

[pulsar oracle]

But if you can take the few points that make the game even more "grey-ish" and more real.

Yes, the first The Division has a lot to provide there.

For example, the frustation of Aaron Keener feeling abandoned by its own agency.

The recording were he lose his shit and then the next one were he start doing recovery exercises.

It makes the character more organic.

Like it has a purpose.

Not saying that its a REAL character, or related to it, but the emotions showed there... they felt real.

[magic sail]

div1 at least hinted at trying to use that theme, but i don't think they carried it out far enough to be a significant thematic element

ultimately, though, div1 still did a far better job than div2, imo
div2 is really kind of a muddled mess in terms of characterization and storytelling

[sick lantern]

Keener in 1 had small amounts of that but it was clear that it was a spark/excuse for an unstable/ambitious man to take what he wanted

[pulsar oracle]

The Division 2 has more life when it comes to seeing characters around.

Like finding other Division Agents and the sort.

[magic sail]

e.g. as much as i like kelso and manny, they're still characters that wear hats at the end of the day, and they don't stand out as much as kandel, rhodes, and benitez

[pulsar oracle]

Could be true, @sick lantern... but his effort helping the people escape against the Rikers and ultimately failing because all died... made you see a man that could have been a hero.

The relationship between Benitez and Rhodes is golden for me, they are really well done.

[sick lantern]

Could have, but chose not to.

[pulsar oracle]

Well, if I was abandoned in a situation like that, I would think things twice, I suppose.

🤣

Now, finding Amherst dead... that was the cherry on top.

We being on this chase for the WHOLE game, and then... bamboozled.

10/10 for me, especially with Keener keeping the work alive.

[magic sail]

i think division 1 did a lot better in terms of storytelling 101 elements
how do you tell an effective story? put your characters through a crisis and see how they respond
in division 1, you land smack dab in the middle of the rising action and get to see characters navigate their way through a crisis

Kandel, Rhodes, and Benitez are starting off on the back foot and have to claw their way back to everything being mildly okay, and it seems more real when Kandel's talking about having to scrape resources together to sequence the virus, or Rhode's talking about having to figure out how to get the power grid back online, or Benitez trying to get JTF squads together to take midtown Manhattan back

i don't personally get any of those "man, things are real bad, how do we fix any of this" vibes from Manny and Kelson

[woven basalt]

i never thought of any of the div1 enemy leaders as "villains", they, like keener seemed more like anti-heroes. i felt the true "villain" was the situation/setting of the game. oh, except bliss, he was an egomaniac. but he fell in with the overarching theme of trusting blindly in authority, so i get why he was in the game.

[magic sail]

joe ferro was, for sure, an anti-hero

[woven basalt]

meanwhile, div2 enemy leaders seemed insane

cough cough, outcasts

[sick lantern]

Emeline Shaw is just a weird mishmash of Barret and Ferro

[magic sail]

the thing is, you also just have to take the Outcasts at their word when they talk about how bad the Roosevelt Island quarantine was
but, if you're only hearing it from their side, they're clearly biased
and all that happened off-screen

not that it wasn't objectively bad, per se

[pulsar oracle]

Yeah, but think about Anton Ridgeway, @woven basalt... it looks like the military leader that makes a coup on a country.

It will happen like that.

[magic sail]

Bliss is also kinda like that
the game mentioned that they came in to Manhattan to protect Wall Street financial firms, and that and Bliss's egomania just makes seem a little entitled (like, as Rick Valassi said, "Manhattan died and made him king")

[woven basalt]

ridgeway was kinda like a bliss that ruled by fear like barret

[magic sail]

the Outcasts seem a little unjustifiably angry, the True Sons seem like they're hiding behind "patriotism" as a way to gain power, and the Hyenas are really just jerks

[woven basalt]

i get hyenas though, theyre just the next stage of something like the rioters in div1

[late void]

outcast rage is supposed to be directed at those who made the quarantine decisions (Ridgeway in particular) but they all chose to get mad at the entire world for not standing up for them (as if everyone else wasn't a bit preoccupied with the virus' effects in their own lives)

never really made sense to me that they attracted so many followers

some people might fall into that way of thinking, but not so many as to make the faction that size

[magic sail]

maybe what i really don't like about the div2 antagonist factions is that i don't like the arguments they make for why they should be allowed to do what they do?

[late void]

eh, black tusk, hyenas and true sons make sense to me, just not the outcasts

[magic sail]

i just remember larae barrett playing the race card in her dialogue during the lexington event center mission, and i was like "no, you can't do that, that's not how it works, you can't hide behind the race card as an excuse for your actions"

[magic sail]

i suppose this is true
and i suppose i'm also not obligated to agree with their actions just because how the faction came to be makes sense

which, i guess, is the outcome of painting them as antagonists

[sick lantern]

I agree, they just suck for how they're executed 😛

well I don't really have an issue with the TS

Hyenas are a tad silly/cartoonish at time at least for my tastes, and the BT are made up of clowns

game's words not mine

[woven basalt]

a bunch of jabronies

[hoary grove]

jabronie, cool word

[pulsar oracle]

What kind of messed up thing with Vivian Conley's death? I just finished her mission and she decided to well... let us know she had some fire still inside her.

🤣

[gaunt ice]

i guess you can say she's hot
ba dum tss

[lucid zinc]

Weird

Could've at least ran to us like outcast

Or fall dead as a normal noc

Npc

[pulsar oracle]

She was crazy as hell, yeah.

[sleek plover]

Rioters are my favorite div 1 faction in my opinion, in div2 my favorite is outcasts

[robust lava]

Idek where to post, so have it there)
Adter reading the "cards" with Outcasts sigil, the "Scar" one, I've got a huge Impression, that some really had a thing against "furry", thing's absolutely ridiculous as for reason why to take up sniping lessons, its a bit funny even

[late void]

yeah many of those cards are humourous

[robust lava]

This one is most outstanding in amount of "pure ridiculous" sense to it, but I indeed had a good time reading those things

[sleek plover]

Hello, Damn I really hate LMB

[arctic elm]

LMB is my favorite faction from the first one :(

I like Black Tusk too, but LMB is still my fav

[sleek plover]

I mean I hate them ideology wise.

My favorite faction in that sense are rioters and outcasts

[arctic elm]

That’s fair, I just love their aesthetic and I remember the first mission I did where they were the enemy in division 1 being the mark of a severe and noticeable difficulty increase in the game

I hated it at first, but it made me play smart and be more careful and plan things out.

[woven basalt]

technically they're giving the greatest compliment to the faction, considering the devs probably wanted their factions to be "love-to-hate-em" tier.

[true plank]

JTF all the way😎

But on a serious note. LMB and BT are quite interesting in aesthetics and lore wise but ideology wise they're only little bit better than the other enemy factions.

[gaunt ice]

not really

well,technically it depends on what you prefer

do you prefer fascism order over,say chaotic freedom?

the LMB wanted to rule people with an iron fist.
Rikers wanted to rule everything,as if society is the wilderness

Black Tusk?"its the commies again"

[true plank]

The problem what I have with most factions is their reluctant to work together along with the SHD and JTF. Who are trying to fix their f ups and "extinguis the huge dumpster fire of an situation". While the other factions are just f'ing around and not doing anything good for the people and civilians.

[gaunt ice]

Cleaners are extremists,so that's self explanatory.
also just as Doc Kandel explained,burning all the viruses also eliminates the chance to find a cure

Outcasts are selfish pricks

LMB did work with the JTF before but they parted ways because the LMB's methods are too extreme

which later devolved into fucking fascism

True Sons are fascism too

that leaves us with Hyenas,Rikers,all the criminal shit

[true plank]

LMB and BT could have just cooperated with the SHD and JTF, atlest on the level we won't shoot you if you won't shoot us.

[true plank]

And that too, their approach is little bit too extreme for my taste. But I unnerstand why such approach was tried.

[gaunt ice]

that doesn't work because LMB's vision is different than JTF,and they both get in each other's ways(say,LMB executing civilians)
Black Tusk wants to overtake the gov,and their opponent as of now is the JTF and SHD

so no reason for them to have a truce

[true plank]

True

Which means neither of them were really willing to help people or do what's best for the people, if they were even trying in the first place. But you can'treally blame them because they're mercenaries, you could just pay them to steal a nuke and blow NY or DC to Kingdom come

[sleek plover]

More like vengeous victims in my opinion.

[gaunt ice]

still selfish as fuck,at least the LMB still has a somewhat righteous idea of restoring order in NYC

Outcast straight up kill people because "muh you didn't help me when i need help"

they plan to spread the Green Poison out to the whole city,victim my ass

[woven basalt]

yeah, the outcasts are def bio-terrorists.

[cyan dove]

Im really hoping something more is done with the hunters ever since i saw them in div 1 i just ooo so Third Echelon survived 🙂

[dusk dove]

TBH with how the division lore has been lately, I hope they don’t touch hunters at all. Better to leave them as is instead of killing their lore.

[woven basalt]

div3: hunters are revealed as "genome soldiers" based on keeners dna. lmao.

[cyan dove]

lol and the keener at the end of wony is just a clone 😮

[woven basalt]

twist ending: april k. revealed as the "big boss" of the black tusks.

lol.

[sick lantern]

or maybe her husband/boyfriend is 👀

or maybe that plot will never come to it's end

[gaunt ice]

Maybe the real plot is the friends we made along the way

[ashen jungle]

I'd just be happy for a plot that doesn't revolve around pairing up every main character.

[gaunt ice]

don't worry,we haven't reach that low yet

YET

[sleek plover]

Found a new leak on the new content, so after the president died the entire SHD system and isac got suspended and now the entirity of united states is in a state of blackout so even BTSU are suffering power shortages.

So without help of ISAC and your orange ring now dim, you have to venture the city of Elden, New Jersey to activate the emergency ISAC backup called the Elden ring.

[paper vale]

wow

[cyan dove]

that sounds awful, its just rehashing old stuff get isac back on blah blah blah

[gaunt ice]

Mike HatingLMBosting

[tawny raft]

[gaunt ice]

@steady crystal

[steady crystal]

Dealt with!

[sick lantern]

so the premise for survival is "we just got word that the experimental antivirals lost in the dark zone have been located"
now obviously we have zero context or prior mention of these antivirals so we can speculate all we want- what if the hunters let the antivirals be located in order to bait out division agents?

in the context of the hurricane, so that only the most resourceful and resilient division agents would present themselves to them- the most dangerous prey, and therefore the most valuable trophies

[gaunt ice]

That also mean they have to bet on that one random billboard to burst and knock out the bird

Also this implies that the Hunters know something about the virus,about those antivirals(aren’t they suppose to be under that bunker in DC?) enough to use it to bait agents out

[sick lantern]

for all we know they had SAMs or Stingers available, it can't be that every chopper in survival was taken down by flying billboards

[gaunt ice]

I thought SAMs was a LMB thing?

And you’d think the JTF would look into it if someone has SAMs and took out multiple SHD helicopters even after the LMB was wiped

[sick lantern]

considering how well equipped the Hunters are I can easily imagine them having them also

[gaunt ice]

I mean,good weaponry is one thing,but SAMs and anti air weapons is a whole other thing

[sick lantern]

they have cutting edge SHD equipment, a few missile launchers/MANPADs isn't a big deal in comparison

if the private sector LMB can have them then the Hunters who are ostensibly better equipped than the LMB can also

[gaunt ice]

I mean,there aren’t that much helicopter crash sites you see in the DZ and the play zone right?

And still,if planes crashing down by rockets is such a common occurrence you’d think the JTF or SHD will look into it

[sick lantern]

There's at least one in every spawn zone, roughly that's no less than 6-8? Black Hawks the JTF fielded for this op

[sick lantern]

probably the JTF didn't know because of the storm, but the Hunters are very sneaky they probably hid the evidence and got away with it

Who's gonna track rocket trails in the middle of a hurricane?

[west dock]

In the lore, South America/ Brazil is in a chaotic warlord states that basically split the country down into complete lawlessness. There is what remains of the government but they're all spread out and resources are thin, is there a chance where agents could travel there to restore order or something? Or they could say that they had their own version of division agents or something like that. It be cool to travel from ruined coastline cities to deep jungle fortresses to retake what the government there lost and to restore order.

That If the US has agents to spare and is internal conflict free, just thought it be cool.

[cold bramble]

itd be weird for the strategic homeland division to be going to other countries

[woven basalt]

i think it's funny when people think shd do what r6 or ghost do.

[gaunt ice]

i mean,they will be at least half as strong as they are in the US if they ever happen to operate somewhere outside of the US

mostly because a lot of their tech will be useless

they rely on the SHD network,whose servers are in America

[sick lantern]

surely it would be a tad contrived for the series to say “the US is stable now, go save Brazil”

[ashen jungle]

Considering that most of the Earth is dead by this point, why would the Agents left bother to go other places?

[gaunt ice]

we'll get a division game in another country after 50 division games taking place 1 city of every 50 states

[ashen jungle]

Poor Hawaii.

[sick lantern]

🤡 division agents from São Paulo from Brrazil

[gaunt ice]

i feel like the Arizona game will just be division and black tusk fighting over beverages and air conditioners

and you'll have 4 main weapons in the Texas game

[cold bramble]

wait is the next location decided?

[gaunt ice]

not sure

[cold bramble]

i dont pay attention to this game anymore so idk lol

[ashen jungle]

Absolutely nothing has been revealed about a potential Div3, or if it even will exist.

[cold bramble]

i see

[ashen jungle]

Heartland is up next (the f2p thing) and then the Update, after that we'll see.

[cold bramble]

thats unfortunate

i hope if there is a next game its more like div1

[brittle star]

Eww no. why sequel should be something new not be built on old concepts

[cold bramble]

every single gun in div2 is from div1

plus some new ones

[brittle star]

I means guns have licenses to acquire to be used in games. Atleast that was the argument r6 siege devs said

So why waste money on bringin new ones

[ashen jungle]

Div2 does use a lot of licenced stuff, but also world-building is quite important, so carrying them over from one to the other helps with that.
besides, a lot of the guns are different, or have alternate stats/classifications.

[gaunt ice]

i didn't really like div1 gameplay wise over div2,but i do like the story more in div1

[brittle star]

Yea this. Gun sounds in div1 are terrible. D2 eargasm..

[cold bramble]

in div1 the gameplay felt more involved

[gaunt ice]

i traded a 5% chc just so i can hear the sound of my MPX

[cold bramble]

it sounds like a fart

[brittle star]

I liked the builds too be easy and understandable in D2 . Simple and straight forward

[gaunt ice]

div1 has overpowered builds,ultimates,insta heal...yeah it's ok but i'd rather the balancing div2 make

like,it's Classy or Die in div1

story wise,i prefer div1,it's not the best but it's decent

[ashen jungle]

I liked Div1 because it was more of an RPG, I liked Div2 because it was more arcade and easier to play for long-term.

[cold bramble]

yeah in terms of gameplay i'd have to say that div2s guns felt better to use

[gaunt ice]

div2 main campaign sucks,black tusk part is slightly better,WoNY is...a mixed bag

[cold bramble]

this is true

[gaunt ice]

story wise tho

[cold bramble]

i liked the missing person missions

[gaunt ice]

gameplay wise,div2 kicks div1 more

[gaunt ice]

easily the best

i do like the one where you have to find doc Kandel's...friend?

[cold bramble]

assuming i remember any of their names lol

[ashen jungle]

Quarantine Zones for me.
There's a reason I used nothing but the hazmat cone for years as my BP trophy.

[gaunt ice]

and in the end after you fought through a group of LMB troops,you see her sitting in the middle of the streets playing the piano and it's chilling for me

[cold bramble]

oh that one

shes just vibing

[ashen jungle]

that was Heather, right? Shame about her.

[gaunt ice]

nah that's Lau's sister

lemme check her name

Alexis Kwan,someone "important" for doc Kandel

it sorta implies they're in a relationship,but anyways

[ashen jungle]

It's her ex-wife lol.

she flat-out says so.

[cold bramble]

:fr:

[ashen jungle]

omg, they're roommates. :p

[gaunt ice]

i didn't turn on subtitles in my first playthrough,stop bullying me rivs 😦

fucking typo again

[sleek plover]

Hello, Damn I hate LMB

[ashen jungle]

She says so back at the Post Office lol.
hey LMB', how's it going?

[gaunt ice]

hi LMB,im dad

[cold bramble]

lmb are arguably the best faction in terms of morals

[sleek plover]

..... Please dont call me that

[gaunt ice]

not even close

[sleek plover]

I think they are the worst imo

[gaunt ice]

Cleaners are based

[cold bramble]

oh really

[gaunt ice]

their cause is noble

[sleek plover]

Outcasts are the most moral imo, mostly because they are victims

[sleek plover]

fascism isnt

[cold bramble]

cleaners are fascists?

[gaunt ice]

there's nothing "fascism" about Cleaners man

[sleek plover]

Also rioters who are just starving

[cold bramble]

lmfao the cleaners are fascists

[sleek plover]

I thought you were referring to those damned lmb snowmans

[ashen jungle]

Okay okay now, let's tone it down a touch.
no one needs to bring up anything IRL, which is where I'm sure this is heading.

[cold bramble]

true true

[gaunt ice]

also Alexis died shortly later,F

third ECHO has her saying her final words,knowing that she's infected.
the finale has her playing,uh and im saying this based on a youtube comment,"The piece she's playing is Chopin's Raindrop, which was written during his own struggle with tuberculosis."

[sick lantern]

she did? she’s in the base though

[gaunt ice]

i mean,it is implied that she died

and you can find her in the BoO?what?

i need to reinstall div1

if so the third ECHO just...ehhhh

wait a minute

does this imply that they have found a cure for Green poison?

[sick lantern]

yea the piano lady is in the BoO civilian area, she plays alongside Heather Lau

[gaunt ice]

ok that's new

but didn't she say she's infected?

[sick lantern]

I can’t remember, but not everyone who has the green poison dies of it
just most of them :p Ninety-odd percent mortality rate

[gaunt ice]

guess someone won the lottery of fate

huh,if so it's a nice ending,i always thought she died

and you can find her and Heather in the BoO?i never knew

[sick lantern]

Yea just turn left past the vendors at the front door

[gaunt ice]

she did?i got radio silence when i completed the final mission in that set?

[sick lantern]

just division things probably, maybe overlapping audio or lag
the missing persons side missions are known to be a bit glitchy

[gaunt ice]

the Division:making great things and ruining them since 2016

i think that's just my favourite side mission out of the bunch.

with a close one being the final ECHO with Keener in it

yes i know it's sequel bait but,it did promise us something cool.
too bad it was WoNY Keener

[sick lantern]

I think ECHOs are one of the best parts of the Division. Telling an interesting fragment of a story, arriving after it’s been told and only being able to spectate the pieces and speculate (and rarely witnessing) as to how they are connected to the present is quite interesting to me. ||It’s part of why I like Return of the Obra Dinn so much ;)||

[gaunt ice]

that's the thing i like about ubisoft's games though:they almost always nail the world building

[sick lantern]

really just how collectibles/cinematics were handled overall was very good; Amherst’s video, the rioters in the subway, the rikers videos are all just so memorable

[gaunt ice]

div2 does need more found footage though,they look really good

[sick lantern]

How does an explosion on the ground crash a satellite/aircraft video feed? 🤔

And why is the description of the UN echo completely different to what actually happens in it?

Just Division things

[gaunt ice]

which ECHO is that?

[sick lantern]

one of the BT found footages in div 2

[gaunt ice]

ohhh that

too bright lmao

crappy government equipments

[woven basalt]

you guys are mixing up two different characters. kandels ex is the one you find dead, she isnt the one playing the piano.

[sick lantern]

Who is playing the piano then?

[woven basalt]

damn, looked it up

the series of events...

im gonna have to watch a replay

[sick lantern]

https://thedivision.fandom.com/wiki/Alexis_Kwan,_Part_3

[woven basalt]

i already played past that in all 4 slots

[sick lantern]

"Photo

Subject ID: Jessica Kandel and Alexis Kwan
Location: FDR Drive/East River. below Queensboro Bridge"
Kwan is the piano lady beneath the bridge

[woven basalt]

dude, already said i looked it up

weird, thought we found her in the apartment, gonna have to watch a playthrough (not gonna delete an agent)

i must just been flying through the 2nd-4th playthroughs too fast to catch what was going on.

[ashen jungle]

She'll likely still be there ingame, and since she speaks to you I'd bet that she says something about her ex.

[woven basalt]

i wonder if they ever got back together

[ashen jungle]

I like to think so, but they did get divorced and not just "break up" as girlfriends.

[gaunt ice]

Does Ubisoft canonically exists as a studio in the Division universe?

Or is it just an Easter egg?

[sick lantern]

I’m pretty sure Ubisoft’s existence is canon in all their games lol

[woven basalt]

and blood dragon is their biggest hit.

[gaunt ice]

you mean the arcade cabinet in Wall Street?

[ashen jungle]

That's not even true if you just go by DLC lol.

[woven basalt]

i mean the bd cabinet in most ubisoft games. but that one was particularly enjoyable (since it used a song from the soundtrack)

[sleek plover]

end of February is nigh

[light estuary]

So I got an survey email overnight from Ubisoft in regards to the Division 2 and if I would purchase DLC or Battlepass , Seasons and of course loot boxes , cosmetics and NFT"s , naturally I told them to shove their loot boxes , cosmetics and NFT"s

have ubisoft not learnt that loot boxes and NFT's are another for of child gambling and already banned in some countries

[sleek plover]

In other words, expansions a lost cause

[late void]

It was delayed until later this year, announced back in December

[gaunt ice]

tbf season passes still sounds neat,but only after the game's released

or maybe if there's some sort of deal that goes something like "people who have the season pass will have every future dlc" kind of shit

[cold bramble]

if NFTs get added i'm never buying another division game

[tawny raft]

implying there will ever be another Division game

love the optimism tho

[sick lantern]

heartland

[tawny raft]

I'll believe that's real when Ubisoft provides evidence

[woven basalt]

it's real. how long it'll stay up before they defunct it... we'll have to wait and see.

[patent narwhal]

I mean heartland is going to be F2P unless they go back on sayin that

but I doubt it'll be connected to the main story if it even has a story in it

[gaunt ice]

do you have to be an American to be an agent?
like,does nationality matter?

oh wait nvm,Lau is technically a Chinese American

[late void]

I mean, they want people with a vested interest in upholding the American chain of command, for national security purposes, I'd be surprised if it's open to non-Americans

[woven basalt]

...chinese-americans are still americans, so idk what youre trying to say.

[sick lantern]

presumably any american citizen is eligible

[gaunt ice]

i was thinking about if you have to be 100% American to be an agent,but then i remember Lau just being half-American so i said what i said

[woven basalt]

thats a messed up thing to say, you know. im asian-american, and i (like lau) am 100% american.

i don't think you get what those terms mean.

[paper vale]

+1 man

[gaunt ice]

well...im sorry,it wasn't my intention to be a douche there

[woven basalt]

its ok, i just assumed you didn't understand the term. it's ethnicity-nationality, not nationality-nationality or ethnicity-ethnicity.

[cold bramble]

Coulda just said that

[woven basalt]

lau is 2nd generation, so she was born in america. still asian-american. has nothing to do with that.

[patent narwhal]

I mean honestly considering some of the comms in div2/wony yeah I think all thats actually needed is just american citizenship

[ashen jungle]

It's stated a few times that the SHD Agents weren't exactly all selected for their value to the service.
It seemed to become a status thing for the rich. A way to be counted as military without actually having to serve, since Directive 51 was never really meant to be activated.

[sick lantern]

🙄

[cold bramble]

Ubi do be poking at real world stuff

[sick lantern]

I thought it wasn't political though?

[cold bramble]

Well, despite Tom Clancy's death, I think Ubi still carries some political themes on his namesake franchises

Consumerism, authority, post-apocalyptic freedom from inhibition

[sick lantern]

https://www.polygon.com/e3/2018/6/12/17451688/the-division-2-is-not-making-any-political-statements

[cold bramble]

I guess they just don't know how to make something original and subconsciously pull real world stuff

[west dock]

Oh the irony flows within this game

[ashen jungle]

As long as they don't share the majority of his political views, I am fully okay with a game about a black-ops government agency being political.

[mint citrus]

Something Something Rainbow 6 Patriots died for nothing

[cold bramble]

This tbh

[woven basalt]

read through the article, they said the game "wasn't about politics", not that there wouldn't be political elements.

the opening segment taking about politics in fc5, multiple references of div2's story being about the "next civil war", and how neither game "chooses a side"... kinda weird considering how the games ended up.

most of the "politics" within fc5 were in gta-esque jokes.

[gaunt ice]

Can I just hop in and say that politics in Ubisoft games are probably used as PR stuff?

Like,they’ll do something a bit controversial and say “yeah we’re not gonna talk about politics here”,and use that to stir up some news article,boom PR

[cold bramble]

Could be, could be; they don't dedicate themselves to it, but stil sprinkle some of them while going "no no, no politics"

[low bluff]

any lore reason why agents dont use melee weapons? Hunters get hatchets, why cant we use knives or swords

[sick lantern]

because swinging a sword around in a battlefield where everyone has a gun is a stupid idea

[low bluff]

theres times when you're stick in mid reload and an enemy is running towards you, or maybe you have the drop on one

[ashen jungle]

Shoot them in the legs.

[low bluff]

I mean who is manufacturing ammunition these days, we go through thousands of rounds lol

[celest prairie]

restock boxes

[sick lantern]

presumably they carry combat knives like every soldier ever but they would serve no gameplay purpose

[low bluff]

yeah theres knives on some gear pieces

[cold bramble]

I wouldn't mind melee weapons tbh

[low bluff]

yeah im not saying make it like dying light but more like a buff to your existing melee that is more of a panic button, give it a cooldown even if you want where it does max damage after a short break

like that one shotgun's buff

[cold bramble]

Yeah, sometimes the melee is just so shitty that I just try to gun them point blank

Or Dodge City

Fucking rushers get kneecapped by a 9mm shot and flop

God, I love Dodge City

[woven basalt]

it's just a mechanics thing, iirc melee takedowns was a scrapped mechanic from the first game. otherwise, you might be interested in looking into the upcoming spin-off game.

[ashen jungle]

Division: this time it's got sticks.

[gaunt ice]

Imagine if you can have instant takedown with a melee though,would be busted

[balmy python]

Let it apply to only enemies without armor.

And riot shields, Elites & Named enemies.

[gaunt ice]

or make it as a talent,or an exotic sidearm

something like,when reaching critical health,can pull out a knife/axe and instakill any human enemy(except bosses).1 minute cooldown.each kill with the weapon takes 10 seconds away

[ashen jungle]

Maybe give it a name related to sleep, and slap it on a shotgun.

[gaunt ice]

only works on below purple enemy,takes up a main weapon slot,and the gun itself is borderline useless other than the talent

yeah maybe what i just suggested should be a rework

MSG pls

[sleek plover]

with beheading option, preferrably.

Cuz guillotine

[sleek plover]

So guys, how about a mini game mode which allows you to play as enemy npc?

[gaunt ice]

sounds neat,maybe as a special mode

4-6 players assign a role of a enemy of a specific faction to take on 1 agent

[sick lantern]

could do like a class based or battlefront system PvP mode

[rotund wasp]

This is like the overall lore channel or just extended universe

[ashen jungle]

Lore for all games related to the Div Universe, but it devolves into gun+gear concepts fairly often.

[rotund wasp]

Lol

[rotund wasp]

I’d want to talk lore but I want to complete the pentagon and the other Coney Island mission first

[ashen jungle]

Yeah I'd wait, the game changes directions towards the end.

[rotund wasp]

Yeah kinda understand all of the stuff from what I remember but I’d have to relearn some things

[ashen jungle]

No need to tag me, I keep an eye on the channels.
If all else fails, you can always just replay on an alt. It's a lot of fun going back, knowing some of the stuff you do.

[magic sail]

riding the DC Metro is a little weird when you've played >1200 h of div2
you look out the subway car window and go "where have i seen that architecture before—oh, right, it's like Jefferson Plaza"

[sick lantern]

if i had to go anywhere it would be NYC, because of Div

[magic sail]

i should take a weekend and do a "let's hunt for some div2 landmarks" trip around DC

[magic sail]

would also be cool to bumble around midtown Manhattan, though it wouldn't be quite the same with how busy the city is compared to in-game

[viral shell]

See, to someone not from the states who's never been there, its just a game map, and nothing else. Nothing relatable.

we're only vaguely aware that its a real place, but with no idea how accurate

[magic sail]

i mean, that's fair

[waxen arrow]

Well in a video that I watched one of the people literally recognized the building that their friend worked at in DC, was pretty cool

So you can guess that it is a pretty accurate

[woven basalt]

its supposed to be a more faithful recreation than div1 new york.

theyve mentioned in interviews that its supposed to be pretty accurate... ive just never been there so i have no reference to compare it.

[ashen jungle]

Going purely off what I see in the overhead shots of "Bones", it's pretty good.

[magic sail]

well, with div2, a lot of places are, like, US government buildings or other stuff that's 'public domain' as opposed to things in NYC that belong to actual corporations that might not allow their stuff to show up in a video game

[spare arrow]

iirc the chrysler tower was in spiderman ps4 but removed in miles morales (and maybe the ps5 remaster?)

[ashen jungle]

Reminds me of how in Div1 they had permission to use the "NYPD" name, but in WONY that went away.

[magic sail]

yeah, like, Starbucks is "Kerman," the Smithsonian is the "Manning Institute," etc.
a lot of the subway stuff in both games got changed; i don't think any of the NYC subway stops are 100% accurate, and i'm willing to bet that "Jefferson Plaza" is actually the L'Enfant Plaza subway stop

[gaunt ice]

Also where’s all the tactical gear for the good guys?

I mean,they can’t just be exclusive or agents right?

[ashen jungle]

Actually that's answered ingame, there's a Bounty location where a buncha riot gear is stored, originally owned by the Hyena's.

[sleek plover]

I found a new leak on the new content.
So a giant earthquake consumes new york and DC and the entire populace are now trapped underground.
So your agent has to use his or her power of determination to fight off the evil underground monsters and the monster king and a random skeleton to return to earth.
Also you can go pacifist.

[cold bramble]

I guess death was just a theme shift for Tom Clancy's stories

[ashen jungle]

fake, not enough Japanese High-schoolers.

[sleek plover]

lol

[sick lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/undertale-gif-23258649

[sleek plover]

So batman crossover... what do you think?

[sick lantern]

would be kinda cool ngl

fighting batman villains in div

some sort of batarang gadget

[woven basalt]

probably be more like that gotham city imposters game

themed gangs

[gaunt ice]

idk if it's been asked before but where do you guys think the lore is heading now?

like,ok we killed Lau then...what?

[sick lantern]

That’s a good question :/

[late void]

Need a new head of state I guess, have to find out who is next in line then locate them

No doubt some new black tusk threat to deal with too, now they've lost Schaeffer and the president

[sick lantern]

yea the only real plot hook left hanging is Sokolova and the true conspirators behind the black tusk but that’s just... more of the status quo

[paper vale]

How about this, the player/agent(s) from Division 1 secretly already joined Keener. Now becomes the main villain. Tom Clancy's franchise's theme is always about backstabing.

[sick lantern]

maybe but it would be insulting to all the good players tried to do in Div 1
and if there’s one thing you never want to do to a fan base it’s insult the player character lol (halo 5 Locke vs Chief for example)

[gaunt ice]

if my div1 man goes rogue i will literally delete my div2 character

[gaunt ice]

you think Sokolova is in country?

[ashen jungle]

Guys, the SHD Agent, go get it.

[gaunt ice]

also don't you think the players are bored of the "hunt for this dude,when wait 2 weeks for another,do it 4 times and find the last one"?

[ashen jungle]

I think anyone who's trying to speak for all players is gonna cause issues.

[gaunt ice]

i mean,think about it:if the "massive" content drop that got delayed 3 times now is just the same shit that has been done 8 times already,people just won't be happy to say the least

[ashen jungle]

If someone doesn't know the whole story, best not to assume.

[late void]

Yup, no idea if the new seasons will follow the same outline as the previous ones or have something new.

But they've never claimed the content will be 'massive' - just a new game mode, couple of new/reworked mechanics and a new season

The length of time it's taken could easily say more about the size of the team then the size of the content

[ashen jungle]

Or ya know, the fact that MSV are currently working on 2 major projects at the same time, as well as the Update.

[late void]

Yeah, I meant 'the team working on the div 2 update' specifically. I know there have been some recruitment adverts relating to it, so presumably they've been understaffed a bit

[ashen jungle]

A massive global pandemic has probably put something of a dampener on things.

[late void]

yeah, that too

[magic sail]

crazy how that works, right

[sick lantern]

if you get the Damascus (blueprint) from General Assembly then why does the flavour text quote Hornet who was in a different mission 🤔

[woven basalt]

I thought the theme was more about "blind faith in authority".

[sick lantern]

I have acquired the comi- graphic novel Remission

[woven basalt]

Oh neat, how is it?

[sick lantern]

haven't read it yet

I'm saving it for a moment tomorrow when my wifi inevitably bugs out

[sick lantern]

Ok it was pretty underwhelming.

[sick lantern]

I would not recommend it

[woven basalt]

must be why they didnt translate into english the first time.

[gaunt ice]

What’s the book about if I may ask

[cursive tapir]

So there are some lore questions that are really bugging me but that I also think would be super interesting to discuss

1. So division agents are allowed to do “whatever is necessary” to restore order and security, and are answerable only to the President. Doesn’t this mean, by extension, that only the President has the power to declare an agent a rogue? Presumably there are hundreds of division agents nationwide and the President doesn’t have the time to be keeping up with all of them (and in any case, for most of the crisis the US didn’t even really have a President capable of doing so anyway) so does that mean that ISAC is the one responsible for flagging agents as Rogues and disavowing them? Doesn’t that mean agents are ultimately answerable to ISAC/ISAC’s programmers, not the President?

2. In a similar vein, why were Ellis’s crony agents flagged as Rogues whereas the agents trying to stop him are Loyal? Wouldn’t it be the other way round if the President has the final say? (Which I think Lau herself even points out at one point) You could argue that Ellis is guilty of some flavor of presidential crimes and therefore ISAC would be flagging his agents as rogue, but he would need to be successfully impeached first for that to take effect, which can’t happen in a Division-level crisis due to the loss of the Supreme Court (Similarly, doesn’t having a force of certified hit squad war criminals who only answer to a man who realistically can’t be democratically ousted in the event he abuses his power a really fucking bad idea?) so does this mean ISAC is capable of impeaching a President without any kind of democratic process or trial? Cuz that would also be really bad because then the government just belongs to whoever ISAC’s software engineers are.

3. Why did Ellis even bother with Black Tusk? Like, the Division already took over DC for him and in theory they have to do what he says. Bringing in Black Tusk did nothing but oust him as an Illuminati plant. Why wouldn’t he just sit on the victory that the Division won for him and continue playing the part of a loyal public servant? Alternatively, you could argue that he wanted control of the antivirals for his sponsors, whereas the Division would want to mass produce it for everyone, but again, in theory he has the authority to just tell the Division not to do so and anyone who doesn’t like it would be flagged as a rogue agent, no?

[ashen jungle]

1. no, and because of many of the reasons you pointed out, that's why there are automatic systems in place.
2. We as Agents aren't the Presidents personal attack dogs. Our #1 Directive is to ensure the continuity of the country and government. Aka: save America at any cost.
3. Ellis didn't "bring in Black Tusk", they're the ones who organised the assassination of the previous President, after his predecessor died of Green Poison. They approached him.

BT's original plan was actually to fly the President directly to the White House and land him there, taking over themselves as puppet masters, but then his plane got shot down and kidnapped.

[cursive tapir]

Sure, but if Agents are answerable only to the President, doesn’t that mean the President is the one who gets to decide what “ensuring the continuity of government” means? Or does ISAC?

I feel like it’s a really interesting plot point that could be explored further that so much of “who the good guys and bad guys are” seems to be decided by ISAC, which implies ISAC has some sort of understanding of morality. Which funnily enough is weirdly reminiscent of the plot of GR breakpoint from what I’ve heard

3. I guess my question is: if you’re the Illuminati/a cabal of shadowy government officials trying to seize power in the US, and the President has a force of technologically advanced special forces agents who only answer to him, then by that logic if you can replace the President with one of your own guys then in theory you don’t even need Black Tusk because can’t you just puppeteer the Division through Ellis to fulfill the same role?

Also I love your username/icon

[ashen jungle]

We are not told directly afaik, so the best guess would probably be "ISAC has a set of protocols in place".
since he's an AI-ish, it makes sense.

Hey thanks! I do too. :p

re: Black Tusk, yeah it's one of those things where we just really don't know enough of Sokolova's motivations yet, but she's the one who did organise this "paying Secret Service Agents to kill off the former President and make it look like a suicide" thing.

don't forget: Sokolova owns Black Tusk, her original intention was to literally just land the President on the lawn of the White House and then take over, I guess she'd assume that the Agents would follow the Presidents orders, which we did until he bailed.

[gaunt ice]

so how did the True Sons shoot down Air Force One and it was the Hyenas who got the president?

[ashen jungle]

Anti-aircraft something, plane went down, Hyena's were closest by.

[sick lantern]

So there’s a Division agent Bruce, and he goes to rescue some hostages from Hyenas and one of them is his childhood friend Mike, and they get spotted by another of their friends... I think his name was John? and he’s a Hyena
and in their past they had a fourth friend a bad girl named Janice(?) and it’s sort of about what happened to her when she went missing

[sick lantern]

very few Division related things happen

[gaunt ice]

so like a book that's less division-ish and more personal-ish?

[sick lantern]

Yea

It seems like it would have been very easy to take this story out of the division

and the story itself wasn’t even that enthralling

so it seems like a bit of a wasted effort ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[gaunt ice]

sounds like it could've been a better cop/criminal story

[cold bramble]

The Division is trying to restore the classic American values () by gunfire, to which the Black Tusk mirrors a certain controlling faction the US was against to some extent in the past

The Black Tusk also clashes with the supreme authority of Division agents

And, well, we kinda wiped DC only for someone weird and hi-tech to shoot us, so we kinda shot back like we did to the three other factions who got into our lawn and fired at us

At the time BT invaded we didn't even know it was Ellis

iirc we learn it was him with BT when we go down some lab and see am echo of him working with them

[gaunt ice]

well that's their plan though

Black Tusk wants the Division to wipe out the opposing factions so that they can go in and take over

[cold bramble]

Exactly, which then clashes directly with the Division's supreme authority

We cannot have two different groups wielding the same power, so they ventilate each other until one isn't moving anymore

[gaunt ice]

I mean,yeah you’re just recapping the lore now

[ashen jungle]

I think we've found a friend for @sleek plover

[cold bramble]

I'm recapping a bit of it, but the main take is that the president tried to override the Division's mutualistic relationship with him and kill its authority

We work with the president and the president works with us, but then the president stopped working with us and tried to instill another group that clashes with our own power, and that is why we ditched the president and still are labeled the good guys by ISAC

By virtue of aligning himself with the group that shot us without warning, the president attacked the Division without warning

And we do what any animal does when attacked on its own territory

It also explains why the president's agents are rogue

And also I think we kinda can't attack other agents without going rogue anyway, so one of the two parties had to be red

[pulsar oracle]

You know, I love the lore of this game... but we need to agree on something, Bardon Schaeffer has the worst kind of luck when it comes to soldiers working with him.

Look at Wyvern, or the twins on Camp White Oak when the place is invaded.

Or even on Liberty Island, when he keeps getting frustrated.

Jack Bonney (aside from Bardon) is the only one still alive but nobody knows its whereabouts.

Still cracks me up when he tells the joke about Petrus.

🤣

[woven basalt]

i think if you use "any means necessary" for things that aren't towards continuing democracy, then it falls outside of that rule.

agents get to choose their own methods, not their own mission.

[cold bramble]

But the USA of America™ builds its authority on said democracy (in this game )

The Division fights for the people's right to elect someone like Ellis every single time

[sick lantern]

the division fights for the people's right to not starve to death or get shot by gangs

[cold bramble]

This too, but after this they'll elect someone to enable just that

[gaunt ice]

Also Ellis wasn’t elected

[sleek plover]

Oh dear, another authoritarian.

[cold bramble]

Fair, he was just in line and eventually got there through murder

[gaunt ice]

That’s also false

One of the rogue target in Jupiter’s manhunt was tagged rogue for torturing prisoners to get information out of them

Which is a bit hypocritical considering a lot of Division’s arsenals are basically violating the Geneva convention already

[cold bramble]

The Geneva Suggestion

[gaunt ice]

the Geneva Checklist

[cold bramble]

I love that one

[mint citrus]

Something Something I want you to back all the way off of the Division

Shame they never kept that up

[sick lantern]

wdym

[mint citrus]

During the raid on Tidal Basin

I think it's in one of the comms

[woven basalt]

"also"... what was the first thing?

[woven basalt]

i missed the part where they said he did it for intel. looked it up, says he was just torturing and executing prisioners, then the next sentence was about his violent outbursts.

[cold bramble]

He was a gamer

[woven basalt]

lol.

[gaunt ice]

Huh,that’s just my foggy memory

[woven basalt]

same. i always have to relook stuff up in divison.

[sleek plover]

So I found this leak on a new content.
So china launches a nuke to US, thus starting a nuclear ww3.
Division agents are now tasked to escort the civilians in a giant underground bunker called the vault where they will be forced to wear blue jumpsuits and freeze themselves in cryostasis for 300 years.
300 years later you and the civs are to go outside the vault and venture into post apocalypse nuclear wasteland.

[cold bramble]

That sounds great

[sick lantern]

but who's left alive to launch the nukes?

[sleek plover]

.... dude srsly?

[cold bramble]

Lol what

[sleek plover]

Ive been making these new leak jokes as a protest to ubi-massive for not even giving a single clue on their works on new content

[cold bramble]

Effective protest technique

[sleek plover]

from:fatgentmike614#8273 leak

search this, so far ive parodied persona 4, persona 5, jojo, elden ring, undertale and just now, fallout.

[cold bramble]

Ok

[sleek plover]

I wonder what would be my next work on be...

[cold bramble]

Division 2 parody of division 2

[sleek plover]

Guys, I found a new leak on the new content! So the story is set on DC where JTF turned fascist, gangs forming a union and infected cults are rampant and you are going to rescue the president and help the civilian militia retake the capital city starting from the White House, your new HQ.

Also there is a mysterious group of shadowy mercenaries working behind the scenes and they will be your major antagonists post game.
Also you will be returning to new york in later expansions.

..... damn I hate LMB

[gaunt ice]

eh it can be something simple like fighting the div1 agent as a rogue and i'll still be happy

have 2 endings too

[paper vale]

i like this possible story too but some people dont like this and threaten to quit or delete their division 2 character and game.

[cold bramble]

If you wanna parody Elden Ring, do you by proxy parody the plot of the Souls trilogy at the same time?

Okay hear me out on this one, there's this agent guy that wakes up with amnesia in Florida and everyone is hostile, while the people that are alive tell you you're destined to be head of the SHD there after killing all bosses of each faction

[sleek plover]

everyone is hostile
thats florida alright

[sleek plover]

Freedom is a right.
Liberty is a given.

[cold bramble]

liberty is given
where

[ashen jungle]

Ahem.

[waxen arrow]

You like your tank builds with the liberty I assume

[sleek plover]

I dont use liberty, it belongs to true sons, my enemy.

I usually mimic div 1 rioter combat style with smg-9s and incendiary grenades.
But for unique I use lady death.

The only use I have for liberty pistol is just scrap.

Same with Nemesis and BTSU data gloves.

[waxen arrow]

Can’t you use your enemy’s hard work against them, agent?

[sleek plover]

It is better for them to be erased from history, all their symbols, tech, all of them.

I even scrapped all my generic sokolov gears too

[waxen arrow]

Just copyright it

Then its yours, your tech, your symbols

[sick lantern]

"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

[cold bramble]

Glory to the LMB

[gaunt ice]

LigMaBallz

lmao gottem

[cold bramble]

I am underage wtf

Smh

[waxen arrow]

the average division agent

[cold bramble]

True

[plush crypt]

what's going on in the rest of the world in the division universe

[sick lantern]

the in game Langley Reports touch on this

some places are screwed (such as Russia), some places are ok (Japan, rural England) and some places are mostly unaffected (Africa)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGkQ-LH0NLA

[tepid ibex]

Tis the spirit

[cold bramble]

YESSIR

[late void]

One of these days, a Cleaner is going to have the idea of adding a quick release system to their fuel tank backpacks, doing wonders for their average battlefield life expectancy

[sleek plover]

Cleaners probably die out considering that conleys dead

survivors probably lynched by angry citizens

its gonna be a wonderous sight

[mint citrus]

I agreed with their goals

But not their methods

[celest prairie]

yea if only instead of killing Joe Ferro we couldve tried talking to him

maybe then the cleaner's goal wouldve been much more better instead of burning everything down

[gaunt ice]

I mean,Ferro died and they got Conley up as the new boss

It’s probably another big cleaner boss or a rogue to come in and lead them

It’s just that their numbers are really small

Plus,cleaners are more relatable to attract survivors in

Like,the LMB has too much of a high standard(being a literal veteran and a fascist at the same time).
Cleaners are just dudes with flamethrowers

[cold bramble]

I found outcasts and cleaners having an e-peen contest in summit with their flamethrowers once

[cursive tapir]

The fact that Cleaners burn people alive instead of just shooting them and then burning the corpse makes them so much more evil in my opinion

Like they'd be evil bastards either way but as it is they're also sadistic

[sleek plover]

They are tyrants, that is sure.
But in ny opinion, LMB are the most evil

[cold bramble]

The cleaners seemed pretty fanatic, but on the self-righteous "cleansing" side

Granted the outcasts kinda do some cleansing of their own with their thirst for revenge

I almost can't blame the outcasts, tbh; hyenas are just dicks and true sons follow a complete douchebag, but the outcasts have a relatable tragic backstory

The outcast broadcast in the open world kinda hits me when it starts talking about children being separated from families and people dying terrified and alone

[sleek plover]

My sentiments about outcasts exactly, they are the least evil enemy faction alongside the rikers while all of them are evil nonetheless.

[waxen arrow]

I just fucking hate Black Tusk

I hate their disrupt bullets in special Ammo

[gaunt ice]

what's the name of the 3 agents in that one comic where they hunt down that one BTSU officer who made the Mantis?

[tepid ibex]

Tru, but it just contradicts how they talk when they target people who had no correlation to what happened on Roosevelt island. It could have been a group of people to have sympathy for if they weren't manipulated and used by Shaw

[sick lantern]

those are the three in div 2's intro right?

[gaunt ice]

yeah them

why do i remember one of them being agent Edwards,the guy who died in the first hunter encounter in div2

[sick lantern]

nah I don't think so

I'm pretty sure they never or only once get mentioned in game

[sick lantern]

Caleb Dunne, Heather Ward and Brian Johnson

[gaunt ice]

huh,thanks

why is it that the actual black tusk forces you fought in the pentagon is less than what they have?or do they just deploy that little manpower there?

like,in the opening cutscene for pentagon you can see them moving tons of troops and logistics there,and yet you kill like,a total of 300-ish of them(assume you go in a group of 4)

or is deploying in small groups their tactic?

[ashen jungle]

I'd say the real reason is simply that they've mostly finished there and all but left.

[gaunt ice]

what did they finish though?they barely got the bioreactor out of the lab when we bust through the doors,and still lost it

[sick lantern]

Caleb was a first wave agent so where tf was he during Div 1 🤔

unless the wiki's wrong ofc, entirely possible

[gaunt ice]

probably overslept when the first wave was fighting for their lives in the dz

[celest prairie]

when u wake up and realise you missed the first wave

[gaunt ice]

seriously though,it's unlikely that all agents are directed to the dark zone originally,some may have to stay outside aiding JTF and all

[sick lantern]

if so... why wasn't he helping 🙃

[celest prairie]

my guess? is they probably tried to but perhaps the JTF stopped them

[sick lantern]

incredibly unlikely but go on

[celest prairie]

well i mean JTF we're already evacuating the dz and the agents that tried to help the agents that were left behind were prob stopped

[gaunt ice]

JTF doesn't give a shit about the First Wave,they literally abandoned them to dead

most of the First Wave can't even leave the dz because the stupid watch would tag that as desertion

[sick lantern]

except when Roy gave his speech encouraging the JTF to work with the SHD and how it will work

[gaunt ice]

tell that to the guy who refused to send help to Kajika

the guy with the machete in wony

[sick lantern]

I don't want to get into this argument again

[sick lantern]

tell that to the JTF dispatcher begging Doug Sutton not to die

[gaunt ice]

Doug was Second Wave,no?

[sick lantern]

nope

[gaunt ice]

my take on this is that they're mixed

[celest prairie]

some JTF mightve helped some first wave agents

[gaunt ice]

like,you'd have guys who's ok with working with SHD,and you have people like Paul Rhodes

[sick lantern]

Rhodes was most definitely an outlier, the SHD had Benitez's backing and his word was pretty much gospel to the JTF

he was an absolute captain to his men

[sick lantern]

https://thedivision.fandom.com/wiki/Doug_Sutton

https://thedivision.fandom.com/wiki/Midas

[gaunt ice]

i mean,they still work with SHD,it's just that they don't like them

[gaunt ice]

why are you giving me a link about the worst exotic smg in div1?

[sick lantern]

flavour text says he's first wave, if you needed more proof

[sick lantern]

"The Division saved our sorry asses!"

[gaunt ice]

ohhh ok,thanks

[gaunt ice]

like i said,not all of them

[sick lantern]

just the ones who are never seen

[gaunt ice]

fair point

[sick lantern]

yea it's a reasonable assumption that some of them would be grumpy about it but I doubt there's anyone who's outright malicious

[cursive tapir]

Currently reading the new novel. Looks like the SHD are sending agents towards, and I quote, “the heartlands” to set up a more organized food production and supply network for the country. Wonder if that’s gonna tie into the plot of the new game somehow

[gaunt ice]

where's the liverland

brainland

[cursive tapir]

I suppose DC would be the brain land given that it’s up north and also the seat of government

Thee are the real hard-hitting lord questions we need to answer

*lore

[cursive tapir]

Apparently protocol for if one of the agents in your cell contracts the green poison is to stay six feet away 👀

[cold bramble]

Oh

[woven basalt]

the heartland was mentioned prior in the world of the division book, so it's not something specific to the upcoming spinoff game.

it's where the cores(headquarters) of the shd organization are located.

[sleek plover]

The P.......

[gaunt ice]

it's Florida,end of story

[sleek plover]

best comment of the day

[tall willow]

ㅇ

[sleek plover]

Hmmm, is that a korean ㅇ vowel i see?

Nice to see you, korean american here

[sick lantern]

https://www.ubisoft.com/en-gb/game/xdefiant/news/1vL1O92iVligA9UDkzRoep?isSso=true&refreshStatus=noLoginData

well the salty haters got their wish ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Also the new logo is straight up worse if you ask me

[ashen jungle]

It certainly looks less Sunset Overdrive.

[sick lantern]

Now it just looks boring

not that punk is some amazing art style

But at least it had an identity, now it looks like something from Powerpoint

[cold bramble]

If they want a logo like that, the game better look like Deus Ex HR by tomorrow

[sleek plover]

Shame, that was one of my best effort yet.

[sleek plover]

Spooky scary skeletons sends shivers down my spine.

for it is the bones of a dead game.

[light estuary]

https://news.ubisoft.com/en-us/article/6mEL7uExWMczw4HpZSCg6v

Imagine this in a Division 3 , the future looks bright in the Division universe

[sick lantern]

until the ubisoft hamster servers make the studios unable to develop the games xd

[gaunt ice]

the AI overlord at ubisoft said "we need ghost recon battle royale"

so it happened

[sick lantern]

ubisoft presents: skynet

[late void]

if their skynet is stupid enough to think BR games are still the best way forward, we'll be safe a while yet

[gaunt ice]

the first batch of killer robots at ubisoft will off themselves because they realise they're actually good products made by ubisoft

[light estuary]

Ubisoft need to stop trying to break into a BR market that is oversaturated with the likes of WZ, Fortnite, Apex and PUBG

[dusk dove]

as a player, i 100% agree. but from a company view point "god no!, go full speed towards BR!!!"

The BR market makes billions man.

[cold bramble]

TRU

[glass orbit]

Hello Fellow Agents, I have a question regarding the stability of New York during Division 1 and Division 2 New York DLC. My question is, did the original Base of Operations fail and collapse? If this is the case, does anyone have a guess what happened to the US Government Agents located in the Underground in the first Division? Thanks guys!

[sick lantern]

iirc The first BoO was damaged by a bomb planted by one of the manhunt rogues
The agents in the Underground... left. They didn't live down there

[glass orbit]

Thank you for the reply 👍

[pulsar oracle]

What do you liked more from The Division? Fighting in more close spaces, like NY or a bit more open like DC?

[gaunt ice]

also also we never heard about the bunker people ever again after Ellis has sworn presidency

[pulsar oracle]

Personal opinion here, but NY for me is top notch... makes you feel like you're some kind of extreme war! I would love to see the saga growing up on that for more big cities, like Chicago, maybe?

[sick lantern]

wdym?

[pulsar oracle]

Like, DC feels more open... less buildings and stuff.

Compared to NY being more of fights in tight spaces while surrounded with buildings and more shops and cars and stuff.

Now, don't get me wrong... DC has some places in the game that will blow your mind and you need to be smart to play around because they can be tight due to the small size, true.

[sick lantern]

true

[woven basalt]

i don't recall div2 giving much answers to that stuff, it was a different part of nyc than div1.

[gaunt ice]

the comms imply that things went to shit a few months after the main events of div1 and during div2,before WoNY i guess

the factions rise to power again,Hells Kitchen happened,Heather Lau died,Kandel left,a lot more sub story things until the original BoO got Eclipse-d

[sick lantern]

BoO2 because the JTF aren't allowed to have nice things for some reason

[pulsar oracle]

Nonetheless Haven has some nice OST... but yes, I miss the original BoO.

[gaunt ice]

Tac gear JTF dudes when

If there’s a point in the plot when your agent goes rogue do we just fight red JTF mobs that has no armor whatsoever?

[pulsar oracle]

A Division game where you play as the Rogue Agent would be sick, not gonna' lie.

I mean, at the rate of how things went after Faye Lau, we are almost there... but a PROPER Rogue game? That would be sick.

Nonetheless, I would prefer the Keener approach from the first game... more on the shadows, using other factions help but not directly involved.

[gaunt ice]

I like the “not align with the ideal” kind of thing,like Shay in AC rogue

“You’re the bad guy,but that doesn’t mean you’re the bad guy.”-a cartoon

[pulsar oracle]

Reminds me of: "I'm bad, and that's good! I will never be good, and that's not bad!” “There's no one I'd rather be, than me!” from Wreck-it-Ralph.

🤣

[tall willow]

ㅇㅁㅇ

[cold bramble]

I think there's a lot of potential for a Black Flag-ish story

Like, in regards to the main character's development

Actually no, I was thinking of a different game I can't remember

Uhhhh basically having the player forced to go rogue by some unfortunate circumstances not very unlike Keener's, and then having to juggle between the other rogues that sometimes are real douchey sociopaths and a moral compass

Putting the Division in a more grey area and showing that not every rogue goes rogue because they want to destroy society and haha evil is fun

I liked that about SWTOR's imperial characters, where you could play on the bad side while playing your characters a genuinely good person who just didn't believe in the way the good side was handling things

And sometimes the story would offer you interactions with the opposing faction that you could end nicely instead of "ahh, I see you wear different colours and now I have a burning urge to skin you alive"

[sick lantern]

thing is, if you don't want to do that, you have no reason to go rogue

[cold bramble]

From what I understand, Keener abandoned the Division after they refused him and his squad aid while he was protecting civilians

[sick lantern]

This argument again
The JTF were pulling their manpower out of the DZ, they did not have the resources to send aid

[cold bramble]

If I was in the same position, I don't think that would be one of my first thoughts

[sick lantern]

?

[cold bramble]

In other words: if people burned alive in front of me after I was denied a desperate call for help, I wouldn't exactly be thanking those deniers or hold them in any particularly high regard

Death on that level is not exactly easy to take in and it's a very very stressful situation even for people trained to handle that kind of stress

[sick lantern]

That's the job he signed up for. That doesn't give him the excuse to become a self-obsessed megalomaniac

[cold bramble]

No one's excusing that

I think I understand your disagreement, so I'll clarify very directly that I am not justifying the Keener we kill in WONY, but understanding the Keener that went rogue

[sick lantern]

He went rogue with a Freudian excuse to pursue power in the new normal

His going rogue cannot be justified in any pretence except that he serves only himself

[cold bramble]

Agree to disagree

[pulsar oracle]

True, they sign and they know the dangers... but even "saving what remains" includes the people.

If not, the whole country for the game would be a ghost town.

Unless "Saving What Remains" involves only those within the political circle, to keep a government running, which is far.

But who they would lead if they don't have nobody else?

The JTF were pulling resources and people, yes... but they knew that the Division agents are there and they are better equipped.

And even then, they decided to retreat, leaving everything and everyone behind.

Knowing your best soldier/tool/weapon (however you want to call it) is being left behind... you're going to have a hell of a situation there.

As far as I remember, another one that has voice recordings of trying to leave the DZ was Javier Kajika, different reasons, yes.

Look at how Keener reacts on the first game... he even loses his temper and tries to control it back after losing all that people.

[sick lantern]

Because Division agents are trained to operate autonomously, the best assets the chaotic and hurt JTF at the time had, and they shouldn't be expected to babysit them when they're in the middle of a crisis

We are explicitly shown they took all of their personal they could, even by force if need be; presumably the non rogue agents got out with the JTF, or just did what was expected of them and didn't go rogue at the first opportunity for personal gain

[pulsar oracle]

No excuses to what Keener did after shit went down, true... but even when you can operate in an autonomous way, you're just a solder at the end of the day and you're fighting mobs of angry people, possibly armed and ready to take you down for whatever the reason.

Having casualties in any war/battle/evacuation or whatnot even when expected, you have the people in charge of doing that dealing with the loss.

You may be prepared, you may have to steel your own heart... but at the end of the day, you're human too.

Division agents won't leave the people behind, and they know the risks like you properly mentioned.

But still, on the scale of a city like NY, its crazy out there.

[woven basalt]

autonomous doesnt mean you operate by yourself without backup, it means you don't need to be given orders at every/any step.

it's hard to justify the way they did the agents, they didnt even let them know. keener wouldve made different choices when he was leading the civvies (that eventually got killed by rioters) if he knew there would never be an answer to the calls for backup.

its kinda the way div1 did things, everyone was gray.

[sick lantern]

Aren’t those... kinda the same thing?
Division agents are trained to operate in massive crisis scenarios where command structures might not even exist anymore or they have no method to reach them as part of their “stay-behind” operations

[woven basalt]

nah, autonomous just means you dont need to be given orders to operate.

[sick lantern]

Yes I know

[marsh merlin]

the division players arguing over the seven tidbits of lore that are plot relevant

[cold bramble]

[sleek plover]

It is a sign of a loyal fanbase, a loyalty that stand unanswered by Ubi now fully focused in making profits out of cookie cutter BR games.

[cold bramble]

debating politics from the game that is claimed to not be political 🔥 🔥

[sick lantern]

😔

[viral shell]

nah, they've just realised their real money lies in the AC franchise

[gaunt ice]

you mean nfts?

cuz they're not giving up on that yet

[waxen arrow]

I swear to fucking god if I see Agent Kelso NFTs

[gaunt ice]

just sell me division watch as merch,pls ubi

and like,an actual good one,partner with Casio or something,you guys do crossovers for r6s all the time

[mint citrus]

Granted I'm sure there are Agents out there that just quit so they could find their families or something

Iirc there's a recording of 2 agents discussing that after one decides to abandon the mission in DC and go home to find his family

Not every agent that goes red is a bomb-throwing psychopath that kills people because warcrimes are funny

Those just happen to be the ones we deal with

[waxen arrow]

It would make sense that ISAC flags deserting agents as rogue

But I doubt it would give you a rogue tier

[sick lantern]

be ex-military
be specially chosen to defend the US during crisis scenarios
train your mind and body for months, years even
finally get activated
you are needed to save the innocent from harm
"actually fuck this, I'm goin home"
genius

[cold bramble]

Training can never replace the actual thing

It's one of the things that leads to a lot of disappointment and possibly danger about the military

[sleek plover]

The only merchs i want is div 1 striped rikers balaclava and rioters hoodie

[cold bramble]

i want an LMB uniform

[gaunt ice]

correction:it can just be a cop,i.e Dragov

[marsh merlin]

lol, you know i heard the same thing from splinter cell fans except they say ubi isn't loyal to them and abandoned them for the division. i dont really have a stance on that i just thought it was funny

[sleek plover]

... so that is the fate of this series huh, total abandonment.
There is no hope.
We are doomed.
The series is fated to oblivion.

Nothing will matter, ubi abandoned us.
The only way forward is to abyss of irrelevance.

The game is cast upon the void, and so will we.

“Meaningless! Meaningless!”
    says the Teacher.
“Utterly meaningless!
    Everything is meaningless.”

so lets just assume that humanity succumbed to the new strain of green flu, fot extinct and age of sentient hamsters began.

[ashen jungle]

Remember what we talked about?

[viral shell]

Its occured to me that in game, the succession has only gotten as far as the speaker becoming president - according to current law, the next in line is the President Pro tempore of the senate followed by the secretary of state. Do we know whats become of them in game?

[sick lantern]

Hidden in a bunker somewhere. Or dead. pretty sure

[viral shell]

the possibility of the next inline suddenly appearing and taking direct control of SHD could make a for a story i'm sure

[sleek plover]

He/she/else probably be extremely black tusks friendly

[ashen jungle]

Division 3: everyone else is dead, the head of the Post Office becomes the new POTUS.

[cold bramble]

UPS package-breaking rate sinks down, cause unknown

[ashen jungle]

Division 3: Mailmen of New York.

[sleek plover]

Division 4: humanity is now extinct, the age of sentient hamsters began.

[cold bramble]

Division 5: the hamsters are enslaved to run R6 Siege's servers on their wheels

[unreal widget]

Who enslaved them? And who is still playing Siege when all humans are extinct? And would they change the operators to match their own species? 🤔

[untold blaze]

that's the point of the game

we find out who's playing siege

[balmy python]

Lmao.

[balmy python]

💀 🤣

[ashen jungle]

Same as now, it's just bots and 1 kid from the Philippines. :p

[sleek plover]

So only filipinos survived the green flu?

[light estuary]

@sleek plover and all you will still here in the DZ is easy noob and Level 1 MH clears 🤣

[sleek plover]

uhhh what?

[light estuary]

referring to PHR clan from the Philippines lol

[cold bramble]

[sick lantern]

do you think they start writing the story first or choose a location and write the story around the location? 🤔

probably the latter

[ashen jungle]

Division? Well each location is pretty heavy linked with the story, almost another character in some ways.
So I'd say they're crafted together.

[sleek plover]

I like hamsters

[cursive badger]

Hamsters r just the cutest. Just ask my mine her name is Luna.

[ashen jungle]

@viral shell While broadly true, that post is missing some info.

Most importantly, that Sokolova isn't just "funding" the Black Tusk, she runs it. It's a family company.
We still don't actually know if the Hunters "work" for BT, or if they were just contracted for that one mission, or even if they are a Faction at all, we know almost nothing about them still.

As such, no real parallel can be made between current world events and ingame ones, nor should it be made.

[swift tulip]

Hunters are ex-splinter cell agents

[glass orbit]

Do we know if all the factions within DC are under the thumb of Black Tusk?

[dusk dove]

none of the factions are.

all of them fight black tusk

Black tusk also wants to cleanse all the factions, not control them.

[glass orbit]

Thanks Azur!

[spare arrow]

They provided weapons to the factions to stimulate a war to weaken all involved, iirc

[glass orbit]

That’s cool, I’m surprised the last of the True Son faction didn’t join Black Tusk. It seems True Sons and Black Tusk would mix well. Plus, True Sons wouldn’t worry about gathering food, water, or ammo.

[viral shell]

We know that some of them did. Others wanted to carry on with True Sons after ridgeways death. They resented the idea of having to work with aspects of government.

See, I reckon we should be hearing from or about the 4th and 5th in succession to the presidency