division-universe

[ashen jungle]

Level 50, calling it now.

[torn shoal]

but div story and lore are def not bad on the tier list of fps/tps games

I just saw what top tier could be, and I just wish for it every time

[ashen jungle]

This channel isn't really for discussing wishes and wants, it's to talk about what we have now, and what directions the story could realistically take.

And for random people to LFG, about once every 2 days.

[torn shoal]

I wonder if someday we gonna have an Easter egg like that

like we meet some npc agent looking for a group but always asking the wrong people in the wrong places

that would be funny

[brave magnet]

to play devil's advocate I think they're saying in an apocalypse setting nuclear is unreliable and safe due to what it takes to keep from melting it down without proper staffing and resources nuclear reactors will melt down just look at chernobyl

[sick lantern]

the chernobyl disaster was caused by them running a test improperly or whatever
as far as i know, the majority of nuclear disasters are caused by people doing things poorly/they shouldn't have done
same with three mile island, they blew water somewhere they shouldn't have, this or that valve was left open

[brave magnet]

I am 100% supportive of nuclear energy but in this hypothetical I don't have very high hopes for someone who knows all the proper things needed to be done to run a reactor to have lived

I'm not saying it's completely impossible just pretty unlikely

[sick lantern]

pentco's still running, so

[brave magnet]

I wonder who evens runs pentco

like not what factions but what qualifications they have

also unrelated but I am ravenous for more news on div 3

[inner kite]

the Chernobyl disaster was not just because of a test , the test wasnt the base problem if things would have gone right the test would have succeeded and we wouldnt know anything about a "Chernobyl disaster". The test even if failed isnt what caused the explosion, it was shit judgement and people in command who were trying to beat a deadline and continued with the test even after missing there window and letting xenon build a pit in the reactor and then trying to fight out of that pit instead of waiting (like they were supposed to) for it to decay

[loud warren]

Chernobyl also went nuclear cause even by the 70s it was horribly outdated. Most modern nuclear plants would automatically shutdown even if all the staff were dead and gone. If something wasn't replaced or repaired the plant would automatically shut down, at least in the US due to how advanced and automated the plants are in most of its functions.

[inner kite]

Literally, RBMK reactors were literally the Soviets making the absolute cheapest form of a nuclear reactor possible

[sick lantern]

“shit judgement and people in command” that’s… what i was referring to
human error not an act of god

[torn shoal]

what I'm saying is you need a lot of people, maintenance and tech to run a nuclear facility, we def are missing the people and maintenance power

and countdown show we also lack security and any faction could blow it it/take it down making it a threat that you can't manage

but again it's a very minor thing to criticize

[novel thicket]

What’s the lore behind h5 and why do they keep supporting bad people?

[tender jackal]

Well Master Chief didn't know that Cortana was going to become a dictator in Halo 5

[torn shoal]

what is h5

[novel thicket]

The refinery in the battle for Brooklyn dlc that apparently the cleaners control, they’re also in the recruiter manhunt powering the final fort that agent Johnson sits in

[torn shoal]

if cleaners control it, why would they not support bad people?

[novel thicket]

I’m pretty sure they’re affiliated with black tusk, dunno when the manhunt was but I think the recruiter manhunt takes place before the battle for Brooklyn dlc meaning that it was owned by someone else before the cleaners. My guess is probably Natalya also owns them or did own them before the outbreak

On a related note, is there really a refinery in irl Brooklyn or close by or did they just make the h5 refinery up

[glad spruce]

No idea

H5 Refinery is... actually, was a Cleaner's base of operations where they mass produced the Purple Flame for Brooklyn campaign.

[novel thicket]

Yeah that’s the odd part, apparently it was in the recruiter manhunt so probably was under the ownership of someone else and now they’re having it play a bigger role in the story after the dlc I’m guessing

[glad spruce]

Are you sure you're not referring to Camp White Oak? That's where the Recruiter Manhunt Climax mission takes place

[novel thicket]

Yeah I mean the final part of that mission, the fort the recruiter snipes you from is powered by h5 tanks

[torn shoal]

black tusk support cleaners, its proven in the incursion

so i dont see why they wouldnt help them back

[strange rock]

H5 is just the oil company you also see it in DC and in division 1

There's also the bank (UBRC?)
Don't think there's lore for either of them

[glad spruce]

Not to mention the BTSU officer Richard Danvers, acting as the Cleaners leader after Conley died.

[obtuse chasm]

Is it true that we already gone rogue?

I saw someone say this on Reddit

[glad spruce]

Technically, we are Rogue in the eyes of the broader Division, Black Tusk, and the Hunters. Regardless of the fact that our watches aren't red. Yet.

We aren't loyal to Nat and Cal, so that's more than enough reason for them to see us as Rogues.

[torn shoal]

we arent technically rogue, just mcmanus un charge of hunters consider us rogues and he is allied with black tusk, for him and his goon, we are all rogue, doesnt matter if we actually are or not

but there isnt anyone that has actual power of saying that anymore, everything crumbled to the point that the gov doesnt exist so its armed forces arent legitimate anyway

we are just an armed militia that follows the old rules, but there is no system in place for oversight, making people follow rules or anything

tbh division is a relic of the past in div 2, we just happen to be on the side of "good" civilians most of the time

[sick lantern]

UDBG is the bank
they commissioned the Lone Star gear set fun fact

[sick lantern]

not at all, people have been saying it for years but it’s never been true

[torn shoal]

i wonder if this come up later in the story, that since there is no gov left, legitimity is on the line

maybe im hoping too much, but that be nice

[strange rock]

Yeah div 1 had lore behind some of the sets
UDBG and Africa
Some sets were DARPA research

[sick lantern]

DARPA isn’t mentioned in any of the Div 1 gear set flavour text

[strange rock]

Hmm I could've sweared one set or weapon has a DARPA reference

[sick lantern]

closest thing is Banshee's "Banshee gear is the brainchild of a joint research project between several Ivy-league universities and top defense engineers."

[novel thicket]

Isn’t the chameleon a darpa creation?

[torn shoal]

its a div 2 weapon

[glad spruce]

Descent comm 98, Rogue Network

||Theo Parnell and Jessica Kandel continue their discussion of ANNA, with Kandel asking Parnell if he simply found the AI hiding underneath the Mobile SHD Server. Theo explains that he didn't exactly find ANNA as he had Vivian Conley's help on the direction to find the AI, and he found a way to let her out of the box.||

||Kandel notes to Theo that he makes ANNA sound like she's alive, in which he answers yes and no. She's growing and learning, has all the power and doesn't know what to do with it, so Theo describes her as a genie trapped in a bottle that he let her out.||

||When asked by Kandel what he means by "let her out", in which Theo answers he put ANNA back to the smart-watches, she can go in to everyone's comm systems. And with being the backbone of Black Tusk's tech, ANNA can extract intel to her handlers.||

||Kandel then asked why they need Schaeffer and "Cassandra" Faye. Theo answers that while knowledge is power, you can't access a biometric lock without. You can't turn the body without the key. And you can't convince President Ellis to give the clearance to someone who doesn't have a biometric ID. Theo then lastly describes ANNA as a god, in a world that's not built for her.||

[glad spruce]

Manhunt comm 9, Diamond.

||Bardon Schaeffer and Manny Ortega discuss DIAMOND. First, Schaeffer notes that diamond is Nat's favorite shape, while Manny notes that Black Tusk's logo is a diamond.||

||He then explains that Diamond is Nat's personal server that controls Black Tusk tech, comms, intel, and AI. An equivalent to the SHD Network, which Manny noted, and Schaeffer confirms as both Diamond and SHD Network are built on the same system.||

||Schaeffer then mentions that back when he and his original squad took out the SHD Node in D.C, it disabled all Black Tusk's tech, comms, and hovercrafts. Which helped Manny realize why they didn't invade D.C until the Division restored their network.||

||Schaeffer makes a little humor, which confuses Manny a bit, so he told him it's a joke and he needs to lighten up. Manny agreed as he needs a break, and asks Schaeffer if he wants coffee. Although, the coffee being made in the White House is roasted dandelion root coffee that's only a bit decent with honey added to it. Schaeffer felt he was better off with a mint tea, which Manny happily obliged.||

[sinful mauve]

Soo thats why Nat can communicate with us during the Manhunt hunting Johnson

[glad spruce]

"Your comms are their comms" as Birdie once said it in Camp White Oak

[sinful mauve]

And it also answers how the Black Tusks just appeared on most final manhunts

[torn shoal]

it's also cause she had a mole

[remote tree]

How many descent comms did the devs plan on having? If its 100, we’re almost there

[strange rock]

They keep adding comms
So who knows how much is planned

[torn shoal]

well, knowing the game is made to last for several more years, a lot

[remote tree]

Might jump to 150 outta nowhere lol

[torn shoal]

well its 1 a week and there are 50 weeks a year apprix so yeah, next year we gonna be atr 150 approx

[cosmic niche]

They didnt plan to continue the game, but here we are. There will no doubt cut off div 2 as they did div1 on the advent of div3 but thats way off atm

[glad spruce]

Currently, the total comms for Descent is 105.

How many total comms do the devs plan to have, no idea.

It could be 200 total, for all I know

[glad spruce]

Thank goodness they continued cuz I would've been pissed if the story stopped with Faye Lau's death as a cliffhanger

[torn shoal]

lmao that would be the worst place to stop the story

[naive cradle]

when is cross play going to be available??????? 🤦🏾‍♂️ 😔

[glad spruce]

First off, this is the lore channel.

Second, Division 2 is being maintained by a relatively small team, so it's best you put your hopes on crossplay for Division 3.

[ashen jungle]

With the name "crossroads", I am getting the distinct vibe that the reveal of the BT Defector is intended to be a jaw-drop.

[late void]

Sokolova or McManus?
Actually General Anderson would be a bit more believable.

[glad spruce]

All we know about the BT Defector is that we were supposed to extract em after we apprehended Schaeffer in Coney Island.

We just didn't know until recently.

Although, with the season titled Crossroads, I was a bit hoping we would get a look at Maira and her fellow Agents.

[torn shoal]

Nat Def can't be the deflector, mcmanus is unlikely, best bet would be Anderson from thoses 3, tho I don't believe it

[true fox]

✨

[true fox]

me too

[late void]

Well, Anderson hadn't joined back tusk back when Schaeffer was nabbed so I guess it won't be him.

[sick lantern]

there is a guy called Flex aka Keith? who shows up twice in Hunted who could vaguely be described as a BT defector
but I doubt it will be a character from the trilogy, especially not him lmao

[torn shoal]

might a fully new character, and they might explain their background later

[glad spruce]

I bet 95% that it's a new character

[torn shoal]

I wanna bet against you for fun but we don't have already have a bet going iirc

[glad spruce]

That's okay, you already won against me on the bet of whether Viper is actually alive anyways xD

copium.png

[torn shoal]

she might come back later dw have faith she sure had faith of her own

[barren forge]

What city is everyone hoping that Div 3 should take place in

[ashen jungle]

Los Angeles, I can even imagine the enemy factions.
bonus points if our homebase is in one of the preview theatres.

I can't really think of a lore reason why we'd go to LA though.

[barren forge]

I could see that, with bay area and san diego as DLC

[ashen jungle]

They could even pull a div1's LMB, and have a bunch of actors hire a PMC that turned evil.

bonus points if the enemy factions are actors, and another be crew, who hate each other.

[barren forge]

The long beach terminal island would make a good spot for a raid

[ashen jungle]

Sure I can see that, maybe go classic and have one of the giant shopping centres be our new Countdown.

[torn shoal]

we for sure gonna go to Alcatraz

[novel thicket]

Unfortunately there’s probably never going to be a game set in Michigan or wherever heartlands was supposed to be :(

[ashen jungle]

Why have <insert cheap food here> when you can have <insert expensive food here>.

[torn shoal]

at least its not ohio

[sleek plover]

or Iowa

aka aspectland

[cold shale]

houston fr

i hope we get a weather cycle

[patent narwhal]

anywhere but chicago 🙏

[sick lantern]

valid

[sick lantern]

Seattle

[ashen jungle]

new BT design leaked

[late void]

NY again, from a non-US perspective every (fictional) event in America always centres on NY.

Does the rest of the US even truly exist?

[ashen jungle]

That is honestly why I picked LA the most, as it's the other single location in the US.

[patent narwhal]

denver/colorado is really nice but that'd lead into place must happen because snow which is a plague upon the franchise

I'd like to see somewhere else on the east coast assuming the story goes way further into black tusk and their strongholds because I think it'd be very odd to finish off the black tusk in this game personally as thats where a lot of defense contractors tend to be

[zenith spruce]

wait there are possibly guys better then the black tusk

and why are defense contractors even doping this stuff money and gold has no value anymore

[patent narwhal]

to setup a new government under their control

plus I think trying to make a bigger badder enemy than all powerful PMC + somewhat former government sounds not only hard but that it'd come off really boring

[zenith spruce]

a government to rule what there seems to be barely anyone left on the planet plus there is zero infrustructue and people to maintain it so they would be sliding into a dark age eventually

[patent narwhal]

we already have the pentagon in game but I think arlington virginia would still make some sense

[zenith spruce]

that is the main thing that has confused me this whole time

[patent narwhal]

theres a lot of people still on the planet all of the langley reports are basically just saying yeah the US got utterly wrecked by green poison due to bad healthcare and lack of action and everywhere else is doing somewhat okay all things considered

[sick lantern]

as evidenced by all the people still around, they can rebuild

remember all the BT clinic stuff from the Mari rescue

[zenith spruce]

oooooh okii i thought the whole planet got shitwrecked

[late void]

One of the main immersion breaking things I feel in the division games is just how many experts survived to help communities build all these electrical, aquaponics etc systems. In a real 80% mortality scenario we'd all be scavenging until we die off from an infected cut or similar. Zero chance of maintaining big things like an electrical grid either.

[barren forge]

Playing through D1 again and forgot how much i loved the micro progression of the post office upgrades. Each wing had 10 and for every one you did the area had more trash picked up and lights turned on and furniture organized. I hope we see something like that again for D3

Where in D2 its only 6 big white house upgrades which is a location you visit constantly so you don’t really feel the slow rebuilding of the headquarters

[torn shoal]

you might find out that lot of people would rather rule over a wolrd of ashes than share any shred of power

[torn shoal]

well ackthually, its not that grim, people tend to group up in communities, if everything goes bad, people dont just stay tehre waiting to die, they group up and try to survive together
and most skills we need will be taught really fast, you got a single guy knowing plumbing and electricity ? time to open a notebook to share every bit of knowledge you can
we will lose a lot, but the basics are pretty straight forward

also its not that hard to raid a librairy and find out manuals/textbooks

obv we gonna lose the high tech knowledge and nice stuff, but the basics are really easy to cover, you need to find 1 guy that knows stuff, or a single book, and your possiblities are exponential

its a thing thoses "preppers" guys miss most of the time, they focus on getting guns/canned food, instead of learning knowledge on how to sew stuff, plumbing, fixing stuff, engines, crops, healthcare, etc, cause they crave the action and freedom to do unhinged stuff, not the actual apocalypse

[glad spruce]

What Lyfe said

Even if you're very cynical about humanity, I think a lot of them wanna come together than eat each other out for murder or bloodlust during a crisis

[torn shoal]

yes, in time of crisis its been proven multiple times that people tend to help each others rather than hurt each others

in the us its also been shown that police departments sent to thoses crisis situation made the situation worse overall

cause they care more about people stealing stuff than people suffering and struggling

i remember hurricane katrina back then, the police responding to the crisis was beyong awful and actually put people in more risk than they should have been

just cause some people were looting some supermarket (that was destroyed and stuff was about to be destroyed too)

[late void]

Eh, I'm not disputing that survivors would band together in supportive communities, that is how we evolved after all - more that said communities would have the collective experience or knowledge (or even be able to learn it fast enough from books) to build and maintain sustainable, habitable lives once initial scavenged resources ran dry.

So much of what we depend on relies on vast chains of expertise and relatively obscure resources and skills, and so much of what we used to know pre-industrialisation (about foraging etc) has been lost. When that jerry-rigged wind turbine or solar panel goes down, who's going to be able to repair it other than just by scavenging from another one? Relatively simple circuit boards would be irreplacable, basic medical ointments unobtainable, etc.

[torn shoal]

i think you over estimate the knowledge and expertise needed for survival in communities

health care isnt much knowledge related tbh for most stuff, its mostly what you have around you, the tools, the vaccines, etc

for foraging and such, the knowledge def hasnt been lost, its very much still kicking rn

its mostly acces to whats needed for it

same if you wanna build a shelter, its not complicated, and easy to access knowledge, you only lacking tools most of the time (and manpower)

obvious high tech stuff would be impossible to reproduce, drones, circuit boards, etc are just doomed, but most of the modern medicine isnt really high tech beside the surgery part

really, the basics are really not hard to get even reliably, but computers, and so on really not that easy

[late void]

eh, hopefully humanity will never have to find out, would definitely be better if I was wrong

but I still think there are far too many experts in genuinely useful and niche stuff in these games

[torn shoal]

well, i'd hope for the best, prepare for the worst
cause its hard to hope nowadays lol

[frosty bluff]

I think there are two ways these communities form: Either they found each other and grouped up together (such as places like colleges, hotels, etc.), or they were former CERA camps

I forget, was Manning National Zoo a CERA camp or just a place where people gathered? Because I know for certain people were they and the Outcasts pretty much killed everyone and were wheeling them off

[dark nexus]

Hey Universe I was directed here from Gen chat, hoping to find a Lore question

Who is in succession after Ellis or do we just assume that Manny or even Schaffer is current at the helm now?

[glad spruce]

The Secretary of Agriculture was supposed to take the succession line if Ellis died, but she died from anaphylaxis due to her allergy to sesame oil. Though, I'm pretty sure Nat arranged to have the SoA killed as well as any possible surviving successors, so Calvin McManus could have access to the Ark Protocol's clearance.

The whole thing about Manny being the President is a light tease made from Vikram Malik and Schaeffer since Manny made a room in the oval office.

[dark nexus]

Thanks @glad spruce

[sick lantern]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession

President pro tempore of the senate is next in line, current status unknown

[torn shoal]

no, isac said we already at the 9th on the line of succession

secretary of agriculture

[sick lantern]

Thought you had me blocked

[torn shoal]

i do, doesnt stop me from correcting you

[sick lantern]

Yeah it does, commit to it or be reasonable

[torn shoal]

dont be wrong and we'll see xd

[sick lantern]

bugger off please

[torn shoal]

also mcmanus is at the bottom of the list

so thats 17 people to assassinate to get him there

minus the ones dead from green poison

[glad spruce]

And she died from anaphylaxis around September in the timeline.

So, assuming any of the next successors were also killed, then McManus would be set to have the President's Clearance.

[torn shoal]

well we dont know who's still alive yet, and isac has to acknowledge which one are confirmed dead otherwise it wont recognize their authority

if a name is missing, isac wont follow mcmanus until it got confirmation

i guess thats nat goal, getting agents on her side or at least not active anymore by getting mcmanus on their command

• the whole ark stuff with cabal that we have got lately but its not a great

btw it got me thinking, division lore and plot arent the most advanced and smart, but i still wouldnt be surprised if at some point we get to understand that keener made up the whole cabal thing and be like "you thought this was real ? the story that would be bad for any espionnage movie ? how gullible"

maybe im expecting too much but still

[sick lantern]

@dark nexus to be more specific, the president is the only person the SHD can be made to answer to, but per their training and mandates, are capable of operating without presidential oversight
basically, rn they don’t answer to anyone and don’t need to. Manny just helps coordinate missions and they listen to him for the sake of efficiency and cooperation (no good reason not to partake in the JTF structure)

[sick lantern]

maybe this was in a Descent comm, doesn’t ring a bell, I’m not particularly bothered either way, knowing Lyfe it’s probably another abject lie though

[glad spruce]

The Cabal were first mentioned the last comm from Y6S1.

And they were mentioned in one of the last comms for Y6S2.

[torn shoal]

yeah, its a fragile hope, but we got weird stuff lately, like the fake video of keener with descent tech, and some stuff got retconned before, so its not entirely impossible

tho i might sniff more copuim than you and viper xD

[glad spruce]

Probably

But given the comms we got in Y6S2 during Theo's conversations with Trig and what we know about the Descent simulation, it shouldn't be a surprise that some folks like Grant were given a copy of the simulation's tech to create deep fakes against Keener and the Bridge.

Hell, I wouldnt' be surprised if the Black Tusk managed to procure a copy from the sim to create deep-fakes against anyone who stand in their way.

[torn shoal]

clearly

[spice stag]

I’m wondering why other countries are not mentioned in The Division universe besides the U.S. being the main setting of the two games?

[ashen jungle]

SHD stands for Strategic Homeland Division, homeland here means the US, so Agents do not exist outside of the US, as our main objective before all this started was continuity of government.
But other countries are indeed mentioned.

[spice stag]

I mean I wanna see England and other countries around Earth being included and having their own versions of The Division and its Agents

Wonder what will be the name of The Division in England?

Besides that, so after the events of the first game, we were stationed at the settlement in the prologue 7 months later?

[ashen jungle]

There's no direct tie-in meaning that your Agent from the 1st game is the same as the 2nd game, it's "Grey canon".

So you can pretend they are if you like, or you're a newbie, or hell, you're brand new when you show up at WONY.

[spice stag]

Guess you’re right but what happened to our Agent in the first game?

Are they dead or they went Rogue?

Or they went off the grid?

[ashen jungle]

"grey canon", means that you get to pick their story.
At least until the game does, if it ever wants to of course.

[frosty bluff]

I think all we know is that countries out of the US either got hit really bad, is doing okay, or are radio silent, and that the Division Network spans globally, as seen during the normal Space Administration mission

[sick lantern]

The Division was created as part of NSPD51 in response to Operation Dark Winter’s findings. Other countries don’t have similar COG protocols

[ashen jungle]

Well, at least as far as we know.

A spin-off with one of the characters going to say, England or something could work, they just likely wouldn't have access to the SHD tech.

[torn shoal]

other countries dont have "division" like agencies, also they werent hit as hard

the division itself is very much an anti democratic paramilitary force

its not a good thing in the first place

[ashen jungle]

That's a weird read on them.

[torn shoal]

i mean thats litterally what we do, we are juge jury executionners

the guy at boo i forgot his name again was warning us about that

the very first thing we do in tutorial is kill some looters that were just selling medecine to other people, no warning or anything, straight up shoot to kill

there is a reason the army should never be used against its own citizen

[patent narwhal]

I think the only other countries that this franchise could work in would be canada/mexico mainly due to proximity politically & culturally but even then it'd be very limited & select areas of those countries and with the way the story is going I don't see a reason for that to ever happen

[torn shoal]

i mean unless their gov gives us a clear and cut authorization to act on their soil, it would be litteral military invasion

[patent narwhal]

at this point in the world of division I don't think the big bads + shd really care

[torn shoal]

no, but they are limited to the us (for now at least), so going in another country doesnt mean the same

[sick lantern]

do i even explain why this is wrong? i’m presuming everyone in the chat rn knows that this isn’t what happened

[torn shoal]

if bt or cleaners went to canada or mexico we might have a joint force to take them down tho

[patent narwhal]

it'd absolutely be a thing of landgrabbing & resource stealing gathering

I'd honestly just assume they have footholds in both countires and more already considering their "unlimited" resources

[torn shoal]

that wouldnt be viable if you cant even get a firm hand on the us, at least key cities

the us in the state its in, has plenty of ressources for bt to take advantage

since almost everybody is dead

[patent narwhal]

I'd take that into consideration if the story of division didn't rely so heavily on spontaneous extreme incompetence

[torn shoal]

that is really true lmao

[patent narwhal]

with how much bigger the black tusk are than even LMB I see no reason as to why they couldn't have a strangehold on all of manhattan if they wanted to

[torn shoal]

well, tbh i dont know why they didnt bomb the white house either at the end of tidal bassin

i mean we stopped them, but their command was adamant they shouldnt do that in the first place

[patent narwhal]

bombing THE symbol of government kinda destroys any attempt to claim leadership of the country

[torn shoal]

i mean, you could just pretend you didnt do it, you have ellis on your side, you have mcmanus, you could just say thoses in white house are fake people trying to steal power from president

bt is known to play games like that

like stovepipe

and with the new tech from descent its even easier now

worse : we allied with keener, bt could use that to say we gone full rogue, we killed ellis, , we stole legitimate power

there are so many possiblities, any pr ghoul could take advantage of this

you dont even have to lie tbh, we allied with so many bad guys including the true son guy, rogues, etc

tbh it would be a clear mistake to not take advantage of this

if i was woring for bt i know i def would do that

get the people on my side

[ashen jungle]

BT literally allied themselves with a group that used chemical weapons on innocent civilians.
I don't see how BT can swing that as anything other than "what the actual hell".

"you used super agent orange to murder children, but it was a while ago so we cool now" is not a thing that is going to happen.

[torn shoal]

im not saying its a clear cut and bt are good people, just that people are gullible, and you could def turn a lot of them your way

any civilian not on division side could be used as a mole

obv bt are bad, but they didnt kill the president, division did, they didnt take over the white house, they arent allied with rogues, that so much stuff civilians care about, even if bt did so many war crime

[sick lantern]

also that realistically there’s no infrastructure in place for misinformation to spread other than word of mouth, and anyone in proximity to the BT can see their bs/has likely encountered the SHD

by that i mean basically everyone in NYC and DC

[ashen jungle]

That is honestly what made me so confused during the Mari Singh Manhunt, those people just randomly were like "omg the people that have saved us a bunch of times are here, run!"

I legit re-ran it after just to confirm I was hearing what I was hearing.

At the time there was what, 3 settlements in DC, plus the BoO? We had a hand in saving/re-making all 4 of those, without us they wouldn't have power or food.

It left me as confused as I was at hearing Larae's speech in div1, but that's a different kind of confusing.

[torn shoal]

i forgot most of this manhunt, i dont even think there was a real purpose to it, just making it different than target to kill ?

[glad spruce]

It was to rescue the Castle members who were kidnapped by Black Tusk, and we learn that Nat was getting busy do a psyop on civilians and convince them they're the good guys

[torn shoal]

yeah but i meant if forgot most of the dialogues, i remember what happenned overall, i just meant it was a slight variation of the usual manhunt season

[frosty bluff]

I believed that they were just people BT gathered outside of our area of Patrol, as to why they don’t know us beyond what Nat told them of us

Much easier to convince people who aren’t all to familiar with us than those who do

[ashen jungle]

I'm not talking about random civvies that we came across whilst they were taking 5 minutes to shoot a drone that's 6ft away (that world event will never not be funny), I'm talking about the fact that we built the Theater/Campus/BoO/Castle up from nothing, got them resources to make it sustainable, and also yeah, regularly save people 2 at a time from public executions.

BT sided with the True Sons publicly, who are well known for chemically nuking Castle in the first place, that alone should mark the True Sons as villains forever, no good PR is going to overwrite that.

[torn shoal]

well propaganda broadcast from bt does share a different story

to make people believe they are necessary to save the world

and we all know how effective is propaganda, especially on civilians

also they make sure people dont believe hunters exist

[ashen jungle]

"oh hey guys, Sokolova here. So the True Sons super needed to murder your children with turbo anthrax for the greater good, so we cool now, right? Cool."

"join BT and we'll give you free taco's and a "i promise not to murder more children" sticker".

Literally nothing can be done to roll that back.

[frosty bluff]

According to the BT propaganda broadcast: “Oh that was just Ridgeway leading the cause and rottening the reputation of the True Sons. With Anderson in charge, the True Sons are reformed and are not evil like the original True Sons”

While I do doubt a majority will not believe it, someone is bound to give ‘em a second chance

[ashen jungle]

I don't care if the True Sons spend 100% of their time going forward giving hugs to orphans and helping puppies across the road: no one can be stupid enough to believe that.

I will go full WONY Keener if that becomes the case.

[torn shoal]

roll it back no, but deflect/minimize ? really easy

thats how most propaganda works tbh, you dont lie bluntly, you twist it just enough to make people doubt

then they ready to get lied to, bluntly

[ashen jungle]

Nope, too dumb.

[torn shoal]

also, yes, people are stupid enough to believe anything, no matter how stupid

i met my fair share of them

and the ingame vilains def are stupid too so, stupid civilians would look no different

i guess they come from the same pool of surviving idiots

one thing i regularly say when watching a movie with a plot way too complicated even if it make sense : "people are too stupid for the plan to be this complicated"

[glad spruce]

Also, it's not impossible that some civilians would be more receptive to Black Tusk in their areas since they're more able to fulfill their needs

Also, Rivens, you put too much faith in people.

A lot of them would gladly accept propaganda and subjugation as long as it doesn't affect them

[torn shoal]

they wouldnt just accept it, they would welcome it and support it, if it means they would stomp on someone else's neck

[glad spruce]

Exactly

[frosty bluff]

I should also say that these are people that could join our rival factions, for example the cleaners. With enough radicalization, they could even become an outcast strapping a bomb to their chest —although I’m not really sure Outcast recruitment methods or their true manpower

[torn shoal]

outcast is the one faction i really dont see recruiting anyone not infected in the first place

they are big doomers, they dont promise any help, power, food, shelter, or anything really, only doom

even theyr propaganda boradcast is basically saying "we gonna kill you all sucks to be you lol"

[frosty bluff]

Yeah

Thats why I was quite skeptical about what I was saying

[obtuse chasm]

who do guys think we will be fighting in this manhunt?

[glad spruce]

The whole Manhunt is about us working on a viable extraction plan for our Black Tusk Defector

[frosty bluff]

100% its gonna be ambushers

trust me

[torn shoal]

haha

[glad spruce]

You give those bow and trash can dudes a bit too much credit, my friend

[tepid ibex]

they're more resilient than the LMB atp

they need a new archetype, one with a samurai sword

and a fedora

[torn shoal]

the guy with a chainsaw is a menace tho

[glad spruce]

Those mute underground guys? Yeah, they creep me out

[ashen jungle]

Is there any actual lore that says they are actually "mute", or is this just a thing where people assume?

[frosty bluff]

The undergrounders are a different minor faction than the bow men of the Ambushers but yeah I accidentally stumbled onto them on a new character while looting shd crates and I got the case of goose bumps

[frosty bluff]

According to the wiki (https://thedivision.fandom.com/wiki/Underground_(Faction)):

Unusually, Underground enemies have no voice lines whatsoever, and are only audible through their heavy footsteps.

[ashen jungle]

That very much does not mean they are vocally disabled, that just means they have no voice lines.

[frosty bluff]

Aye fair enough

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[ashen jungle]

I've got something of a vested interest in finding out if there are canonically "mute" people in the div franchise, but I kinda doubt it would come up.

[frosty bluff]

I see

[torn shoal]

i dont think they are mute, they just cosplay ninja so they try making the minimum sound possible

[torn shoal]

if there was a cosplay convention and sombody came with an underground chunga costume i'd lose it

insane how most of thoses are ripped af, do you even skip leg day in this universe ?

[glad spruce]

Fuel is rare and cars are abandoned, so I expect adult age folks to have a lot of muscle so they can survive the crisis.

[tepid ibex]

proceeds to wear chains

Naw they pretty badass, big guys even wear hunter-like masks

[torn shoal]

fuel doesnt seem rare for major factions tho, if anything we drowning in fuel

[torn shoal]

oh hey, been a long time since we got a scam link

@patent narwhal if you up

[patent narwhal]

[torn shoal]

goat

[glad spruce]

Tomorrow's the 10th Manhunt comm and the 99th Descent comm

[torn shoal]

🥳

[glad spruce]

2 weeks away to meet and rescue our BT defector

[torn shoal]

alleged bt defector, cant exclude the possibilty its another trap from nat to get to us

hey, maybe its viper after all and you gonna win that bet lol

[ashen jungle]

It would be pretty wild if after all this time, our rescue target is just a corpse.

[glad spruce]

Yeah, last time we tried to intercept Stovepipe on Coney Island back during Y4S3, only to find him as a corpse

[ashen jungle]

To be fair, with that haircut of his, he deserved it.

[frosty bluff]

I swear if we find bro dead, the helicopter gets shot down, or we get attacked by one of ‘em robo torture dogs

[torn shoal]

all the guile main in the world are crying right now

[obtuse chasm]

Is descent comm and manhunt comm connected?

[torn shoal]

not necesseraly

or whatever its spelled

[glad spruce]

Only tangentially related.

[novel thicket]

Fuel is only abundant because the cleaners took over the h5 refinery after the outbreak, they then give it to whoever is aligned with their goal

[torn shoal]

one rafinery cant provide for the entire us, also cleaners arent affiliated with bt, also other factions have tons of fuel like at some point cleaners cant supply everyone

we also have a ton of fuel it seem and im pretty sure we didnt ask nicely cleaners for some of their

[novel thicket]

I think the cleaners did help out bt a couple times, but it might just be that they now have a monopoly over the remaining fuel supply in the eastern us

[torn shoal]

when they help each other its only to focus on civilians or shd, they share firepower, not fuel

also still doesnt explain why they would trade fuel with anyone else especially civilians/outcast/agents

outcast in particular are everything the cleaners seek to kill, infected population that spread the green poison

[novel thicket]

Dunno, they helped them out for the recruiter manhunt to power the fortress at the end of the mission so that’s where I inferred that they worked together on occasion. For the most part though they pretty much have control over the refineries because everyone working there quit their jobs after the outbreak

[sleek plover]

Black tusks

sounds like tooth decay

[remote tree]

I still feel like it could be one of the ortiz

[sleek plover]

Does anyone know who "13" is that is featured in many weapon quotes.

[frosty bluff]

The Vault Dweller

[glad spruce]

Descent comm 99, Two Factor.

||Theo and Keener meet at One Police Plaza before the events of WONY, where they discuss Faye Lau, who took the Cassandra codename. Lau made it clear she doesn't trust Keener, and thinks his callsign should be Sphinx, though he thinks Vanguard is fine.||

||Theo then mentions that Lau wants "nuclear protocol", which Keener deduced as two factor authentication to activate the national Rogue network, so in case it gets disabled, two users can reactivate the network as long as they have the watch and biometrics.||

||They then discuss which person should take Faye's watch, in case she dies. Jessica Kandel was her first choice, but Keener doesn't think it's a good idea cuz Kandel is not an agent. Theo then mentioned Bridgette "Viper" Douglas as Faye's second, which Keener refused as Viper was his second.||

||Theo then lastly mentions Kelso as the one to take the watch, which puzzled Keener as Faye didn't even meet her yet and asked if she even bothered to talk to Melanie Hoskins. Theo mentioned that Faye did not, as she thought Hoskins has too much on her plate and she's in Keener's corner, and admits she wasn't wrong on that.||

[torn shoal]

hold on, that mean faye was already with keener before wony ??

[glad spruce]

Yes. Here's a rough timeline of Faye's recruitment as Cassandra:

• Faye visited a safehouse where she plays an ECHO as a message from Keener, telling her he knows about the Hunters and he'll tell her on the condition that she joins him

• Faye was shown the truth from Theo, which she accepts, but still doesn't trust Keener. As per the mission parameters, she took the Cassandra codename. And as insurance policy, put a two factor authentication for her watch and Keener's watch to activate the Rogue National Network

• Viper acted as the honey pot, allowing Faye to infiltrate the Black Tusk.

• Before our arrival, Keener and his cell attacked City Hall with Eclipse Virus to root out the Hunters embedded there. Faye threatened to pull out, but she was eventually convinced to continue her mission.

[sinful mauve]

Imagine doin that but theres no one is a hunter lol

[glad spruce]

Manhunt comm 10, The Plant.

||Manny Ortega and Bardon Schaeffer have a rather frustrating discussion regarding Doctor Joshua Summers, Nat's mole. Apparently, Summers was an actor prior to the Green Poison and not a doctor this whole time, albeit a famous one.||

||Schaeffer then mentions how in his first time, Summers used a crash cart to restart someone's heart, and asked Manny if that didn't make him think that wasn't the right way, since CPR is the correct approach. Manny admits he never saw Summers using a crash cart, considering over the last year (in-game timeline) the most wounds that were treated were gunshot and shrapnel.||

||This frustrated Schaeffer, asking Manny who put him in charge and how old is he, in which he answered fate put him in leadership position and that he's younger than he looks, being at the age of 29. Schaeffer is exasperated, understanding that being the Division coordinator and the leader that D.C civilians look up to weren't what Manny signed up for, it just what happened.||

||Schaeffer then asks him if he had seen Summer's Way, which Manny asked what is it about. Schaeffer frustratingly clarifies that Summer's Way was a show that Joshua Summers was on. Manny insists that he never heard of it.||

[torn shoal]

that is def WAY out of character for faye without any change shown to her

like, being ok-ish with murdering civilians in droves just to take out maybe some hunter ???

[glad spruce]

Again, I mentioned that Faye threatened to pull out of the Cassandra mission due to Keener and his Rogues actions on City Hall and Castle Clinton.

She was only convinced to continue her mission, knowing how important it was to undermine Black Tusk and the Hunters.

It's already bad enough that I often argue with Rivens, given she never played Division 2 for whatever reason

[torn shoal]

yeah i know she threatened to pull out, but in the end, she didnt

so that mean she is ok in some capacity

or at least for her its not that bad

i dont see a world where she wouldnt been flagged as rogue for this, way before wony

[glad spruce]

Does it matter at this point? Faye got flagged Rogue by the time she pretended to defect to Black Tusk and she's dead.

And now Kelso took the Cassandra codename and agreed to the mission in hopes to redeem herself for her part in murdering Faye.

[late void]

You know Rivens was joking about not playing div 2?

[torn shoal]

it does matter for the story to make sense

if joining rogues doesnt mark you as rogue, but joining bt does, then why are rogues even marked as rogues ??

[glad spruce]

Yeah, and the Zeppelin doesn't make sense.

So?

[torn shoal]

so getting invested in story is getting harder everytime

like im not asking the story to be perfect in every way, no missing plot, no failed storyline, etc

but you gotta have at least a minimum of consistency in your story or nothing make sense and nobody will care

its also gone to the point where everyone in the world knows what is going on behind closed doors except our agent which is either blind, deaf, mute, all of the above, or just so stupid he cant even understand who's his target without isac pinging it

i said it before, zeppelin doesnt make sense, but it makes up for it by being visually cool, this comm really doesnt make up for anything

[glad spruce]

I have a hard time knowing whether people joke or not in text without a tone indicator

[torn shoal]

like faye doesnt trust keener, sure, why not, but then keener kills a bunch of civilians, and faye is like "not good, but fine whatever" ??

and somehow we should understand she then trust him with her life to take down bt after he shown he is ok with so many war crimes we cant even count ??

idk, the usual plot holes are not that big

[late void]

There are clues like #division-universe message
(She was also joking about having blackmail on all the mods, in case you were wondering.)

[torn shoal]

tbf jokes and sarcasm is hard to tell on text

and i already cant tell when talking irl lol

[late void]

Yeah I'm a big fan of dry sarcasm of the 'this is clearly too ridiculous to be true' type, but with the number of weird beliefs on the internet it is much harder to know where that 'too ridiculous' line actually is.

At least without some knowledge of the individual in question, anyway

[torn shoal]

there is also way too many times i was thinking "nah this is way too much this guy is joking" when he was in fact not joking and then my next thought was "how are you still alive and/or not in jail my dude"

internet is a strange place soemtimes

[gaunt ice]

rivens and dry humor?whats next, water isn’t wet?

[ashen jungle]

I mean technically it's not.

Nah Hawk is right, I'm a mod of the official div server, am passionate about the lore of the game, have shown screenshots before, have detailed knowledge about the ingame map, and have in-fact played with people on this server before, all without ever having played div2.

[torn shoal]

oh so the blackmail on other mods was on how bad they are at the game ?

that be funny lmao

[ashen jungle]

There is no way this "rivens doesn't play the game" is legitimately still coming up

[glad spruce]

Well, sorry, but I can't detect sarcasm without tone indicators

[ashen jungle]

I would suggest a better excuse next time, but this is the last time I'm going to say this: stop acting like you are the only person who cares about the lore.

[torn shoal]

yeah we all care about the lore, thats why we would love for it to make more sense

[glad spruce]

It's not an excuse. I'm autistic and I can't tell people whether they're sarcastic or not.

Also, considering how some of y'all shit talk the story, I find it hard to believe that you guys actually care.

[ashen jungle]

I'll remain professional and just say that you need to shape up or action will be taken in the future.

[glad spruce]

I understand

For me, it's hard to enjoy the story when a lot of people on social media talk about how awful it is.

[ashen jungle]

You need to stop caring what other people think about a passion of yours and just enjoy that passion.
Someone else disagreeing with you over something in no way affects your enjoyment, or it shouldn't.

[torn shoal]

other peoples opinion shouldnt change your own enjoyment of the story
we can talk about the story and criticize it while still enjoy it
we obviously have different expectations for what the story should be, and its ok

i love some very awful movies, i know they awful but they bring some joy to me because of how awful they are, its fine

for all the critics i have toward division story and overall lore, im enjoying it a lot tbh, its def not the best, but still enjoyable

tho im def not investing much brain processing power into making it make sense, i just take it like it is

making sense and being enjoyable are 2 separate thing, but one can def help the other

[obtuse chasm]

Schaeffer had valid crashout in comm lmao

[torn shoal]

yeah he sounded like me talking to any gen z kid xd

[glad spruce]

I understand his frustrations, but you can't blame Manny for not being aware that Doctor Summers was an actor.

[torn shoal]

im pretty sure manny wasnt much into tv back then anyway

he look like a guy that think emails are on his computer and not on the internet

[shell parrot]

He was a actor?

[shell parrot]

Bro hates ai so you’re right

[torn shoal]

whats the connection with ai ?

[shell parrot]

He hates it

[torn shoal]

so ?

whats the connection with ai

[glad spruce]

Yes, he was.

Also, it's a nice callback to a comm from last season:
https://thedivision.fandom.com/wiki/Asset

[late void]

I get that Manny might have never seen some random medical drama, but summers was doctor at the campus when we recruited him and at the White House for a while, that's a lot of people to not recognise him, he was even using the same name...

Presumably working alongside other medical professionals too who would have known when he was wildly inaccurate with some procedure

[ashen jungle]

Was he wearing glasses?

[late void]

Hypno glasses apparently

[ashen jungle]

You can't tell if it's the same person if they're wearing glasses, it's just scientific fact.

Fake nose and moustache optional.

On a more serious note: I was mostly confused why Manny seemed so nonchalant when Kelso murdered that guy, he was acting like he knew, but now he doesn't?

[late void]

I assumed he had a fair amount of faith in Kelso, at least enough to let her explain

[ashen jungle]

I'm going to be honest: if my SO murdered someone in front of my eyes, someone who I called a friend, I would blink a little.

Because IIRC at first he doesn't know it's Kelso, so it comes across a little like he was planning to randomly murder Summers himself and this mysterious figure beat him to it.

[torn shoal]

I just think Manny was frozen cause he ain't the fighting type

we never saw him leave the white house after all

[glad spruce]

He was a National Guard/JTF SIGINT before he was promoted to the Division Coordinator

[ashen jungle]

If anyone does figure out that interaction to more of an extent than "he froze", when his reaction wasn't fear, it was not-caring, do let me know. It confused the hell out of me during that cutscene, in a Manhunt that I was already quite confused over.

[torn shoal]

yeah i think he was caring as much as i did when the story went to "fk it why not"

[ashen jungle]

For the record: I don't agree with Lyfe about the story stuff.

[torn shoal]

im pretty sure im the only one agreeing with me

which is fine, we all have different takes

[gaunt ice]

i dont agree with lyfe on lots of things but this i agree with him tbh

Manny treated Summers death like a mild inconvenience

[glad spruce]

Even so, it's a good thing we got rid of Summers since he was the whole reason why Schaeffer didn't wake up until 2 months later in-universe.

Oh, and the fact he was a double agent working for Nat.

[tulip patio]

I do wonder what else he was responsible for, now of course there's some rules and role distinctions at the White House, not everyone is aware of all the plans, but he was there from the beginning so maybe he was given more leeway or people trusted him enough to talk around him

[glad spruce]

He usually worked in the sick bay in addition to being our barber and tattoo artist on the occasion

[tulip patio]

yeah but I bet he might have overheard things, while not of course having access to Manny's operations room

in any case I do hope sometimes soon we will get more manhunts around NY too, DC is nice but I like more variety

[glad spruce]

I'd imagine the reason for so many Manhunts set in DC is the fact that there're players who don't own WoNY nor BfB

[torn shoal]

well unless you decide to go all the way and say you gotta buy the expansion to get future content like destiny, yeah, you gotta limit it to the free part

tbh the location doesnt really matter, its mostly a redo of a mission except the climax

[ashen jungle]

In the early div2 lore, DC was also the important area, which is part of the reason we were called there in the first place.
So canonically, it tracks.

[torn shoal]

i mean once in a while we could go elsewhere, like the recruiter manhunt climax

but its very much limited in location

[ashen jungle]

The Recruiter finale was still in the free zone, which is why we had Coney as one as well.
I'm trying to remember now if DARPA+friends were used for anything.

[glad spruce]

The Pentagon and the DARPA Labs haven't been used for Climax mission locations, yet.

We did get Manning Zoo back in Y5S1

[ashen jungle]

I'm trying to block out the Zoo Manhunt, I already hated that map, and having to go back there a 4th time did not help.

I'm shocked they haven't used the Pentagon/DARPA map yet though, it's incredibly pretty and ripe for re-use.

[torn shoal]

yeah i just mean its not in dc, so we can have manhunts outside, its just kinda weird the dlc locations are just forbidden

i know why it the case, it just feels weird

tbh even if destiny suck to have to pay over and over to keep up the content, at least there is a steady stream of content

(bad content for me but still)

the manhunts felt repetitive before the revamp, it was just a normal mission with a new boss

the new master difficulty is nice but still doesnt feel like new content

[ashen jungle]

We've had earlier Manhunts take place at least partially within the NYC map before, but just the earlier version of the scout parts.
It makes sense that we can't use DLC areas, as with the one-world update, all players have access.

[torn shoal]

tbh i also think wony should be given to everyone now

its so old, might aswell to up player count

[ashen jungle]

That would just peeve players who own it off, and reduce overall sales.

and also has nothing to do with the lore focus of this channel, so I'm going to end this here.

[torn shoal]

oh yeah we might have gone off topic again lol, mb

[tulip patio]

oh yeah, I mean mostly more stuff set in Manhattan, reuse more of those missions since I really like em, also if I am not mistaken didn't we need or still need Warlords to access the manhunts?

[tulip patio]

Pentagon would be really cool too

speaking of all that, we do see Keener hack all those Black Tusk robotics, but I do not recall any mention of it after, except the big bot in Brooklyn, is it mentioned anywher if it's suddenly a weakness that was patched

[torn shoal]

wait, didnt we got manhunt set in stranded tanker ? mission was free for everyone right ? why not redo that ?

[glad spruce]

Diamond is a server that runs the Black Tusk tech, which includes drones, bots, and even hovercrafts.

It is also built on the same fundamental system that ISAC and ANNA use, hence why Keener managed to hack Black Tusk's bots during Liberty Island.

Simply put, if we manage to shut down Diamond, Black Tusk will be weaker.

[tulip patio]

yeah something like that, in the other locations around Manhattan

[tulip patio]

yeah it's one of the parts of the story I really like, that's why I wish they sort of brought that hacking to us too, maybe as a skill, hard to balance of course but still would be fun to see, being able to hack enemy skills maybe somehow

[sick lantern]

it was not patched, Maira also does it

[tulip patio]

oh that's good, hopefully it comes back as a skill or something eventually

[glad spruce]

I'd like to meet Maira and her team at some point.

Though, at the current timeline we're in, game wise, the events of Compromised and Hunted have yet to transpire.

[tulip patio]

I forgot who I was discussing that with here, could be Webkinz but not 100% sure, the books do take place after what we do timewise but, is it all confirmed to stick to that in our game too?

I mean does the game confirm their timeline?

[glad spruce]

The whole St.Louis thing that a lot of comms talked about back in Stovepipe Manhunt? It did happen in the first book, Recruited.

Which means it happened around mid September to early October, by my estimate.

And as of right now, the game's timeline is early November since its Fall season and we're weeks away from Winter

[sick lantern]

No, it contradicts it, by referring to the events of Recruited as past tense

[glad spruce]

That's because Compromised and Hunted take place far ahead of the game's timeline

[sick lantern]

and Recruited opens by saying it’s been over a year

which is contradicted by the manhunt timeline, when it was added, saying it’s been less than a year
whilst having the events of Recruited having already happened

[glad spruce]

Sure

[sick lantern]

Yes, I’m sure

It’s an indisputable fact

[glad spruce]

And that narrative team are incompetent buffoons. That an indisputable fact as well?

[sick lantern]

You said it, not me

[ashen jungle]

Do I have to step in here?

[sick lantern]

Hey I don’t have a problem you know how it is

[tulip patio]

I think I recall now when we were discussing it yeah, sometimes before Brooklyn

well whatever the timeline, hope we get something of the sort ingame

[torn shoal]

into the divisionverse gotta be a great movie

[tepid ibex]

damn i love lmb

@sleek plover you havent said the thing in awhile, you good?

[glad spruce]

Eh, it kinda lost its luster

[late void]

He reappears every few months or so

[torn shoal]

like my love for the game

[tepid ibex]

its getting further and fewer between 🥺

[glad spruce]

1 week and 3 days left till the Climax mission

[tepid ibex]

you and i, may be on opposite sides of the spectrum yet, we are not such different autists yknow

[sinful mauve]

Fun fact, div1 bags are actually two straps but agents during any frontal assault against their enemies in the darkzones ora anywhere, they cut the bag's left strap and combine the bottom to the right strap

[torn shoal]

I'm pretty sure most people here are autistic anyway even if undiagnosed lol we kinda invested

[ashen jungle]

@full grail Enough trying to make that joke, it's not funny, it will never be funny.

[glad spruce]

To save myself from disappointment, I'm expecting next week's Descent comm to be short and one-sided.

[torn shoal]

tbh you're a godsend that allows me to not play descent to know the coms

i forced myself to do it so hard to catch up but damn i just cant

[zenith spruce]

anything interesting lore wise recently?

[glad spruce]

Yes. In order to take down Black Tusk, we need to take down their Diamond Network.

[glad spruce]

I forgot to mention we also need the Presidential Clearance (which is kept at Faye's watch that Kelso is wearing), The Football, and Claire Ortiz, assuming she's still alive.

[glad spruce]

Ngl, I'm more interested in tomorrow's Descent comm than the Manhunt. Something tells me the latter is gonna be a short one.

[glad spruce]

Descent comm 100, Crossed Lines.

||Theo Parnell gets a call from Faye Lau (albeit one-sided, cuz Faye's VA was not available), where the latter threatened to pull out from her Cassandra mission after Keener and his Rogue Cell attacked City Hall. Theo tries to convince her otherwise, arguing that they were attacking a Hunter outpost within that building, which included Hunters and some of Cal's loyalists.||

||Theo was aware that Faye made it clear that she wanted no "Eclipse BS", but he argues that Keener and his Rogues needed to get Natalya's attention. The attack on Coney Island, so they needed to make Nat see Keener and his Rogues are a threat worth her time for this to work.||

||Even so, a number of civilians who were in City Hall were killed by the Eclipse, so Faye still thinks Keener and his Rogues broke that promise, though Theo mentions that Kelso and her fellow DC agents are on their way to Lower Manhattan, and Nat will follow, so Keener's plan to bring Black Tusk's attention was working.||

||Finally, Theo promises Faye that the Eclipse will only be used on Hunters from now on, and tells her that she could trust him. And if Eclipse is used on civilians again, Faye can walk away and tell Nat everything.||

||But if Castle Clinton is any indication, well....||

[glad spruce]

Manhunt Comm 11, The Pain.

||For this debrief, Schaeffer is dealing with the pains of trying to walk again after sustaining injuries and waking up from his coma. Unfortunately, the BoO didn't have the resources to keep him up with PT during his coma, but Schaeffer is still making the best of the current situation.||

||Manny offers Schaeffer some of Keener's cherry whiskey wine, which Schaeffer gladly accepts as he hoped it'd be its his own form of torturing Keener.||

[torn shoal]

wow, keener lied and killed civilians, who could have seen that coming

i wonder what will be the excuse to keep faye on mission and not get out after that

[glad spruce]

You're gonna have to wait till week 13 for that lol

The saddest news is that Schaeffer is gonna be on the wheelchair for a while 😔

Anyways, Keener's rogues managed to destroy the Hunter outpost in City Hall, so good riddance

[torn shoal]

i mean thats the least he could do lol

[glad spruce]

Sure. But I still think Black Tusk and the Hunters are the real threat.

I don't care if the U.S government or whatever remains of them works with them, they need to be destroyed

[sudden mortar]

Wait, this had me wondering ||Could agent De La Cruz be a hunter? He was there when Kelso and the sheriff were looking for survivors. And the last time we saw him before that was on the coast settlement at the game prologue.||

[glad spruce]

||It's possible. I mean, it's a hell of a coincidence if he is not a Hunter, especially back when the coastal settlement was attacked by Black Tusk, and then City Hall was attacked by Keener and his cell to eliminate Hunters and force Natalya to pay attention, allowing Lau to join Black Tusk covertly.||

[sudden mortar]

|| plus a thing about the coast settlement, we already saw that the Black tusk likes to rely on proxy war thing (a faction openly or secretly supporting another faction with Intel resources and in exchange they do what they are told). I would not be surprised if BT was supporting the rioters when they coincidentally attacked just before the hovercraft arrived there.||

[torn shoal]

yeah i know im just saying, if you gotta kill a whole bunch of innocent civilians to do so, who are you saving ?

[sick lantern]

remembered that Remission exists 💔

[glad spruce]

No one read that comic, so no one should know about it lol

[sick lantern]

i read it sadly

[ashen jungle]

You should try reading it happy next time.

[torn shoal]

how about not reading it

[zenith spruce]

i want to see him with a chris redfield level physique

he is my favorite character

[glad spruce]

As long as it's not that stupid meme, that's fine by me.

[ashen jungle]

Being 100% honest: Stovepipe fits that meme way more anyway.

[torn shoal]

he does look like the funny Chad memes

[glad spruce]

That just gave me an idea

[obtuse chasm]

I wonder what keener whiskey taste like🤔

Also WINTER MENTIONED!!!!

[glad spruce]

It's a cherry whisket, so take up what you will

Also, considering that snow teaser we got two months ago and the fact that the Division 2 dev team are gonna be on gamescom (August 20-23), we can put two and two together.

[ashen jungle]

Yep, you heard it here first folks: snow cones.

[torn shoal]

knowing its the apocalypse and its not preserved cause everything when from bad to worse : its taste bad af

but for the next div stuff im more thinking about snowball fight

with a grappling hook, cause every game that have one gets automatically 50% better

[obtuse chasm]

Grappling hook sound great. imagine grappling hook an enemy like scorpion that would be fire 🔥

[torn shoal]

titanfall 2 has that

thats why its the best game ever no critics allowed, division 2 should follow their steps

[glad spruce]

RogueGold has been doing lore videos every few weeks since NGN is still dealing with his illness.

[torn shoal]

oh didnt know ngn was sick

thats rough man

[fast wharf]

Anybody who says titanfall 2 is bad clearly never got crippled mentally by the game's ending and lore

[sick lantern]

or maybe they just didn't think it was good

[glad spruce]

Indeed. I'm trying to focus on other things so the countdown till the Climax Mission is available is more faster xD

[obtuse chasm]

I wish ngn is okay

[glad spruce]

Hopefully he is

[unreal widget]

Illness? Did I miss something? I thought he was just having a Social Media break to focus on getting into some writing.

[torn shoal]

bf 6 beta is out, thats my jam until tuesdya

im actually legit wondering who the asset gonna be

[glad spruce]

Same

[glad spruce]

I don't remember which video he said it, but I do recall NGN saying that he's been dealing with illness for a few months, hence why the releases have been sporadic lately.

[jovial jackal]

same

[glass notch]

Which meme?

[torn shoal]

im guessing the "chad" meme

[humble jacinth]

Is it canon that our agent does everything on their own?

[sturdy glacier]

Never heard of this, where did you hear this from, if you don't mind me asking?

[humble jacinth]

Whenever our agent is on mission they always refer to them as they are on they're own, Agent.
It's never agents, even if we're in a group
But i could be mistaken, which why I'm asking.

[sturdy glacier]

Oh, okay. I understand you're questions now.

[sturdy glacier]

That is a very good question. I would love to dive into the lore one day with people. Just hard to find the right person that don't spread false information. I would appreciate if you pinged me when you get your answer.

As for my personal opinion, I would assume it would be a group effort mainly because some of the mission seem almost impossible to solo. (In a more realistic way.) Especially the raids. As well not counting the off field support you get from the AI system in our watch and cons from safe haven and HQ.

You know?

[sick lantern]

it’s “canon” fyi
and it’s really up to you to decide, at the start of the game, you’re “The Sheriff” showing up to DC, but you can choose to say that your friends are there later or not

[sturdy glacier]

Ohhh, that's cool. So it's really up to interpretation? (In a way?)

[solemn sentinel]

yeah

[ashen jungle]

@unique arch This channel is about discussing the lore.

[wraith anvil]

Lore *

[glad spruce]

Hate to ruin your enthusiasm, but fan works aren't allowed in this server

[torn shoal]

keener wouldnt hate it, he'd enjoy it

this guy love showing how much smarter he is

[glad spruce]

Okay, that document above just lost me as soon I saw "gen-ai" slop in it.

[ashen jungle]

That was such a weird read that I want to believe it was intentional.

It also seems to be really into the idea that NYC is Denver.

@wraith anvil If you want to create something in the future, I suggest you actually try and create, rather than have AI do it for you.

[torn shoal]

yeah, if you didnt bother creating something, why would we bother checking it out

[glad spruce]

After tomorrow's maintenance, the Climax mission awaits us.

[obtuse chasm]

Can't wait for tomorrow!!

[patent narwhal]

actually how the hell are we getting more and more clueless and incompetent as time goes on

[glad spruce]

Not this again

[patent narwhal]

😱 someone doesnt like the story this must be an attack on you and only you hawkster

I havent even finished the climax yet but we open with schaffer going heres how and why they know we're coming only for manny to go whatttttttttttt they know we're coming howwwwwwwwwww

like what are we doing we're what several months in and several weeks of people telling manny THEY HEAR US BECAUSE THEY USE OUR COMMS and hes somehow shocked that they know what we're doing?????????????

[glad spruce]

Yes. Any attack on the story is a personal attack on me.

||How the hell were we supposed to know that we were supposed to extract the defector after we captured Schaeffer in Coney Island?||

[patent narwhal]

me when I ignore the point being made

the whole comm from the bounty is just manny and schaffer going we gotta get this guy at this place only for manny to be like what how could they knowwww

like gee its not like you've spent the last several weeks being told they listen to us all the time

[glad spruce]

I'm honestly tired of the Manny hate-fest

[patent narwhal]

its a real mystery why they know why & how we're at the potomac for this very specific reason

maybe they should write him better than an incompetent moron who somehow hasnt been listening to a word anybody has told him about for the past like several weeks in the games story

you could not be more clear as to how they know what we're doing only and where we are and yet he still acts like some buffoon who is completely clueless as to how they do despite what like 2-3 people constantly telling how and why

if you wanna love him to death thats great go ahead don't be coming in here acting like its some crime that someone disagrees with you on the story because clearly a lot of people dont like how his writing has been handled

[glad spruce]

Or maybe you're jumping to the wrong conclusions.

||Cuz Manny was already tracking Black Tusk supply drops in the PEC, which was enough clue for the defector's location. The only reason you're upset about is because he was wearing comms when he was talking with Schaeffer about our defector.||

But hey, don't let that stop you from hating the story

[patent narwhal]

yes and hes extremely stupid for doing so because hes ignoring what several very clearly informed people tell him

so what he was tracking them he's probably tracking black tusk all over dc but he didnt have a clue about the manager

that doesnt make him any less of a moron for wearing comms to something he very well should know NOT to now

you do not hold the one correct view on the story and you NEVER will

if he wasn't wearing comms this mission could go a LOTTT easier but no he's gotta ignore two people basically screaming at him THEY'RE LISTENING ALWAYS FROM THIS EXACT SOURCE over several weeks

hes a comically bad leader who just doesnt listen to anybody and constantly acts like hes seeing the world for the first time

[glad spruce]

Okay, fine. Manny is the worst person ever and should've never be born.

Satisfied?

[patent narwhal]

sure man

I'll make sure to bow down to loving every bit of the story even if it makes no sense because clearly you'll always be in the right about the story because you do transcripts or something??

[glad spruce]

Not always. I never claimed to be always right about the story, even when most of the time, I summarize the story beats and transcript the comms

[torn shoal]

tbh its kinda deserved, dude is stupid af

[patent narwhal]

this could be useful to us but lets just destroy it anyways for fun agent :D ????

we're here to disrupt what black tusk is doing way more than what 3 random ass crates could ever do why would you destroy these

actually just harming your own side for like no reason

[torn shoal]

they know we coming at the hvt only cause manny got coms open knowing that its a securty breach for weeks now

[glad spruce]

Any action against Black Tusk should be acceptable. We shouldn't give them even half a quarter.

Especially when they're the army for a fascist regime.

[patent narwhal]

it's also really not that surprising for black tusk to have decoys man

okay but we're already clearing the area what the hell are dead bodies going to do with 3 crates

I'm sure the corpses will go darn if only we had those 3 crates

[torn shoal]

tbh im more annoyed that they didnt kill the hvt the second they knew we were coming for him

[patent narwhal]

and all the other places black tusk are at will look at their mountains of crates and go damn if only we had 3 more

[glad spruce]

It sounds like you want Black Tusk to win

[patent narwhal]

so you hate waffles type comment

no I just dont want manny to be an idiot about something like that

[glad spruce]

Any Black Tusk crates are useless to us, so we're better off destroying them

[patent narwhal]

????????????

[torn shoal]

bruh plz, you cant react like you're 8yo, just cause we find a story point stupid doesnt mean we are in bad faith

[patent narwhal]

manny straight up says those could be useful to us

but lets destroy them anyways could be fun agent tee hee :3

like no manny thats really really dumb we're already here to disrupt their entire supply chain they dgaf about 3 crates

I'm sooooo down with black tusk because I want us to be better equiped to fight them as a whole instead of just the agents

[glad spruce]

Would you be personally satisified if we kill Manny? Or at least, he resigns and let someone else take the role?

[patent narwhal]

who said I wanted him dead what

I just want him to be written well instead of a comically inept buffoon whos always shocked at the most obvious things he's been informed of for weeks on end

[glad spruce]

Well, it's clear Manny hasn't been living up to his role lately.

At any rate, I apologize for my petulant behavior, since I should know better not to take criticisms of the story in bad faith.

No matter how much I like it

[obtuse chasm]

who in the actual f is that?

bro got bowl cut hair lmao

[torn shoal]

its fine to like the story, we arent attacking you when we call out its bad points, a story can be bad and still enjoyable

i know i like bad movies cause they make me feel good no matter how much i know how bad they actually are

[small knot]

Bro Manny needs to lock in bro keeps messing up

[glad spruce]

Managers, especially those who work in military industrial complex, are rarely good looking xD

[sleek plover]

I will gladly aztec-style sacrifice them alive in front of lady liberty

[sudden mortar]

It's just having a baby stress we can't blame him.

[sleek plover]

Whats with aaron keener and cherry whiskey

does he brew while being incarcerated?

[glad spruce]

No, they're made in Keener's settlement, The Bridge

[glad spruce]

Alright, let's get to business.

[ashen jungle]

To defeat....the hounds!

I will avoid typing out the whole song, but just know that I totally could make the lyrics work.

[glad spruce]

Descent comm 101, Propaganda.

||Richard Danvers tells Sarah Moretti, aka The Rat Queen, to make propaganda broadcasts so they can rally people against the Bridge, including the people who recently joined there. Rat Queen, of course, had some reservations as she didn't want to do live broadcasts, so Danvers tells her that Matthew Grant can help her out with making pre-recording broadcasts. Danvers even suggests to Rat Queen that Grant can help her sound like Keener thanks to the tech they loaned from the simulation program in case she wants to make propaganda against Keener, but she needs to be on the same voice cadence.||

Manhunt Comm 13/14, Cats and Declaration of Will.

Cats:

||Keiko Nakama, the BTSU operative in charge of the Black Tusk's base in the Potomac Event Center and the bodyguard of Sokolov Concern's Logistics Manager, shares her frustrations about him. Namely, the name he gave to his cat, his personality, his cat sweaters. Her frustrations boiled down to the point that she wants to murder the manager's cat, but she got her orders to keep him safe.||

||Nakama hopes one day, she can kill both the manager and his cat once she's done doing baby-sitting duty for him.||

Declaration of Will:

||The Manager makes a will to Keiko Nakama by himself, in case he dies. As his apartment was burned down, and have no family, the only possession he has is his cat. So he made this will in hopes that Nakama would change her mind about his cat and take good care of it, despite being aware of her low opinion of him and his cat.||

[frosty bluff]

Where was the Declaration of Will comm at?

In the room he comes out from?

[glad spruce]

No.

Give me a minute, okay?

When you move your way to the concert hall, there's a staircase besides the hallway where you fight Outcasts in the original version of the mission. Upstairs, there's a door on the left that you can open. As soon as you hear ISAC notifying about a comm, open the door and collect it.

So, ||The Manager likes his cat. I like him already||

Given that ||The Manager said he has no family in his will, it gives me the feeling that he grew up on foster homes.||

[ashen jungle]

Poor Manager, not even allowed inside.

[median crag]

||Honestly really confused/irritated that Manny decides to use equipment that our side could use. He even brings it up, yet chooses to destroy them anyways. Keep in mind, about a month ago (in lore), the WH got raided by BT, they could use the gear.||

[glad spruce]

||Maybe it's because of bitterness due to the final boss fight being buggy, but I was glad to never have those equipments. Already bad enough that I had to fight dozens of them in the final boss.||

||There's also the possibility those crates were equipped with failsafes to prevent any tech genius from taking it over.||

[torn shoal]

i have the entire song in my head now thanks

and i've been thinking about manny lately, but because the "manager" popped up i made the connection, he is a mid level manager in any big company, useless, clueless, but somehow still in charge and you gotta follow his lead up until you crash into a wall lmao

[glad spruce]

What song?

[torn shoal]

mulan song, defeat the huns

you litterally quoted the first line of the song lmao if you never watched it thats hell of a coincidence and it makes it even better

i think its "making a man out of you" or something

[glad spruce]

Ah, I walked right into that one, didn't I?

[ashen jungle]

Technically, you didn't actually quote it as the quote itself is very slightly different, but it's the closest I'm going to get.

[zenith spruce]

based song

[torn shoal]

yeah its been a few years since i heard it

i still have the french version in my head mixed with the original

i'll put on some kpop demon hunter to drown that one out

[steady shore]

so we spent this hole season just to save ned flanders

an his cat

[ashen jungle]

*whole. *and
I see no issue here.

[steady shore]

atleast theres a cat

[torn shoal]

cats are obviously better than dogs, thats why we get a cat in dc and the dog is relegated in new york

[late void]

we have a dog in Castle

[glad spruce]

Sure, but we can't pet her

And I do wanna pet a cat in the game.

[torn shoal]

that one doesnt count he ugly

[ashen jungle]

All dogs are beautiful.

[green plume]

Is there a tldr of who the hunters are? Like their background?

[torn shoal]

mostly same as agents, but meaner

[green plume]

Fair. Im aware theres 4 activation stages for their missions

Im just interested to see if they will expand the info we have on them but idm if they dont to keep the mystery

[torn shoal]

we mostly know everything there is to know about hunters by now tbh

we know their tactics, who they work for, why, when they got activated,, their tech, etc

[green plume]

Tactics : idk
Who : calvin?
Why : rogue agent control?
When : idk
Tech : shd++?

[torn shoal]

more or less ye, the why changed from "rogue control" to "all agents are rogue now"

and "bt is friend"

[green plume]

I guess the agents veered of their 'correct' path

[torn shoal]

well, its all about what you consider correct

if you like facism like bt, then they are indeed rogue
if you like "freedom and justice", then not so much

tbh in the state the world is in, even agents actions arent really commendable half the time, they shoot first, ask question later, which isnt very "freedom and justice" of them

[green plume]

Correctness is determined by the victor

[torn shoal]

not really, thats a misconception

who remains is decided by the victor, nothing else

what is correct is determined by morals of the people who remain

which isnt set in stone in the first place + doesnt always match their actions when survival is at stake

people do stuff they know is bad sometimes to ensure their survival

there is what is moral, and what is needed

also sometimes the moral choices arent aviable at all, all you can do is bad stuff or even worse stuff, and there is no escaping

kinda like the trolley problem if u know

[floral gull]

Righteousness without power is just an opinion

[sleek plover]

it is still righteousness

for power corrupts

[late void]

Unless you're religious, all concepts of good and bad, justice and morals etc are just figments of human imagination and opinion. (Not that they aren't hugely important to human happiness, of course.)

[torn shoal]

power never corrupted anyone, it only reveals

also "good" and "bad" are just concepts we apply to the world, they dont exist by themselves

what is good or bad isnt the same for everyone, some thing killing people is good, some think is always good for certain people, some think its always bad

there is no objective morality, never has, never will

for example, are agents good when they kill people looting some appartment in the apocalypse without warning ?

or are they just fighting for one side, like verybody else

unless you can say exactly what is good or bad, you will find out that most of the character in division arent good or bad, they all shade of grey mostly, and they all think they do the right thing

when we went to arrest ellis, what was our justification ? was it a valid one ? why would ellis not be valid ? etc

[obtuse chasm]

In legendary mission who are we fighting exactly? Is it the white tusk? Or the last man battalion?

[late void]

White tusk, some of who's members were recruited from ex-LMB troops

[obtuse chasm]

ahh got it thanks

[glad spruce]

They're agents who work for Homeland Security and are personally hand-picked by Calvin McManus.

Their mission is to keep watch on Division agents and kill them if they become a problem, since some government officials didn't trust the Division to follow on its mission.

But in all honesty, the Hunters focus their wrath on agents who aren't loyal to McManus.

[sick lantern]

When does this happen

[glad spruce]

I have no idea. I think he's confusing gameplay for story

[torn shoal]

im not cofusing anything i didnt say it happen, im giving an example

btw we do shoot people that werent harming anyone with no prior warning

like in the tutorial, we shoot people that were supplying meds to another group

also forcing people to take up arms to fight for their survival doesnt make you free to shoot them on sight

[sick lantern]

can’t tell if bait, cus this is straight up false as usual

[torn shoal]

jtf left people to die alone, and then when they fight to survive they're legally allowed to kill them on sight no warning needed

[ashen jungle]

@torn shoal Drop the IRL comparisons, they have no place here and they're starting to get annoying.

[torn shoal]

thats not really an irl comparison, thats in the first game

they were left to fend for themselves and punished for trying to survive

in tutorial one of the first assignment is to kill looters that were exchanging meds

like im not saying they were saint or anything but its irrelevant since we knew nothing of them before killing them

[sick lantern]

no, he attacks/kills a guy to steal them

and to then likely sell them on to desperate people

that’s literally in the game and you’re ignoring it to sell your narrative

division agents don’t go around killing people randomly in cold blood, it’s been shown multiple times

[ashen jungle]

The actual lore of the div universe goes very heavily into just how evil the "bad guys" are, to an almost comical extent.

A Named Outcast literally used plague infected puppies to infect an orphanage. I mean, cmon.

[torn shoal]

as i said, im not saying the other factions are good, im saying agents arent the "good" guys we all talk about

first of all they are a litteral lethal force allowed to kill anyone they want/need/ordered and only answer to the president, which can decide unilaterally to send them to kill any opponent

they are so out of the justice system, the contingency in place is : another set of agent but meaner

you just have to pray they have your wellbeing in mind when they come, but you cant be sure, and you cant force them to if they dont

[sick lantern]

yes this has been the point since day 1 of the franchise

[torn shoal]

as the electrician guy said in the first game, this is a huge problem and if we werent following the "save what remains" we could be doing a lot of bad thing, all of thoses supported by gov

[ashen jungle]

"the electrician guy"

[torn shoal]

yeah i always forget his name

[ashen jungle]

Lyfe, we've spoken about this before. "save what remains" does not refer to people, our mission was continuity of government.

we're off mission, we are now basically heroes going around and saving civvies.

[torn shoal]

arent we supposed to maintain order ?

[ashen jungle]

Yes, by maintaining the governmental power.

we are operatives of a secret government program of civvies giving training and advanced military hardware. In most stories, we'd be a batman villain faction.

[torn shoal]

yes thats my point

[ashen jungle]

Your point is that we're on mission, we are not on mission.

[torn shoal]

no my point is that our mission isnt good, and we arent good either

[ashen jungle]

How?

Just answer how the player Agent is a bad guy.

without bringing up something that happened before we were even activated in div2, or a part of in div1.

[torn shoal]

again, im not saying we are "bad", we just arent good, we dont look for that, our mission is irrelevant on the good/bad scheme

our mission isnt doing good, or bad, we dont care (at first) about that

[ashen jungle]

Yes and I'm asking you to explain how we aren't good.

Wait a tic, did you play all of div1, like right to the end?

[torn shoal]

well in first game we def dont care about saving civies, we shoot to kill and we dont even ask question later

yes i played my fair share of div 1

[ashen jungle]

Yeah you need to actually finish a story before you can talk about it.

because in div1, Rhodes admits that we're important and we are the good guys.

this explains so much.

[torn shoal]

i did finish the story, i think the 900+h i put in the game cant happen if i stay lvl 3

[ashen jungle]

your comments sound like you watched the first 20 minutes of a lets play, and then extrapolated from there.

[sick lantern]

literally was wrong about the first enemy you shoot in the game 😭

[torn shoal]

is this another joke of you not playing the game ?

[ashen jungle]

Lyfe, shut up.

the rioters in div1, is that who you are trying to say are nice?

the rioters who butchered that innocent guy in the kitchen area, literally covered them in knives and wrote "pig"?

[torn shoal]

i didnt say they were nice, i said it was irrelevant since we shot first and ask question later

i said they were people that were put in no condition to survive if they didnt become looters

[ashen jungle]

So your entire theory that we are "not nice", is that an enemy who is programmed to shoot us, you fired first?

[torn shoal]

my point is that we are allowed and we do shoot first, if we were "good" we would ask question first

[ashen jungle]

frankly, if someone runs around with an ak screaming "gut the pigs!", i am going to assume that they are not the nicest people.

thats a great way to be a moral corpse in the apocalypse.

[torn shoal]

not "being nice" shouldnt be an automatic death sentence on the spot with no trial

[ashen jungle]

what you're discussing is not the lore of the game, it's moral questions that are raised in a post-order world.

[torn shoal]

we are literally judge dredd

[ashen jungle]

you do not know what judge dredd is

[torn shoal]

i know he is judge jury and executionner

[ashen jungle]

yeah you saw the movie im guessing.
the actual character is a parody of over policing in Thatcher-era britain. its meant to be goofy.

[torn shoal]

yes, cause he is judge jury and executionner, and shouldnt be

[ashen jungle]

oh boy

yes, midnless violence is bad. You may be playing the wrong genre if you want to have a dialogue with enemies whilst they try and use your intestines for paint

[torn shoal]

i didnt say that, im just saying : we arent much better since we dont care about justice

just cause someone is bad doesnt mean we are good, and vice versa

[ashen jungle]

No duh

[sick lantern]

It’s not even remotely canon that the Division just goes around executing everyone either. They deescalate situations if and when they see fit
For example: the first ECHO in the Noble squad mission. or, Maira doing it repeatedly in the Operation Crossroads trilogy

[ashen jungle]

hell, if we executed everyone at first sight, keener/kelso/theo would all be dead.

[torn shoal]

yeah tbh idk why we let keener go in that bunker when he is supposed to be enemy #1 and wanted by everyone including us

[ashen jungle]

thats unrelated

[torn shoal]

i mean, it kinda is, we ally ourselve with a guy that killed so many people, with no care in the world

thats not really "good guy behavior"

[ashen jungle]

Look if you're just going to sprint from topic to topic whilst making sweeping statements, we can link everything from that one family Keener helped, to the helicopter pilot we saved.

let me know if you want to make a moral call about that one stupid agent who ran off in the classified mission.

[torn shoal]

havent bought the classified dlc so cant really say about that

[ashen jungle]

that tracks

[torn shoal]

i mean, idk why u want to act as if i didnt play the game entirely

[sick lantern]

You make an awful lot of objectively false claims

[torn shoal]

i have like 2k hours in both games combined, its not like i missed the story

thats why im complaining when huge plot holes happen like the last time

[ashen jungle]

If you actually have 2000 hours in both games together, then it is a very clear example of time played not mattering.

What are you calling a plot hole? Us siding with Keener isn't a plot hole, it's a direction that you don't agree with.

[torn shoal]

i was mostly talking about the zeppeling from last time or the "actually im not dead" out of nowhere for keener and theo

[ashen jungle]

The latter has precedent in the story, Hornet.

this is not a new thing.

[torn shoal]

or the "if you kill civilians im out",from faye, and then after he kills civilians again, "ok im mad but im not out"

and i know reviving character isnt new, but it was completely out of the story when they did it, just cause we didnt kill hornet doesnt mean reviving anyone for free is good story

[ashen jungle]

"good story". There you go. Not a plot hole, it's a story direction that you disagree with.

[torn shoal]

good story dont have plot holes

[ashen jungle]

.......

[torn shoal]

like the zeppelin, was out of place, had no reason to exist in the first place

[ashen jungle]

Okay now I know this is a troll.

[torn shoal]

man idk, just cause i dont agree with you mean im a troll

[ashen jungle]

Think of this as an exercise in restraint.

[torn shoal]

especially after you just say i dont play the game

[ashen jungle]

I said it sounds like you didn't, from these weird statements about it.

Comprehension is something you need to work on, that is clear from the understanding of the story. Try watching the NGN lore videos.

critical thinking is something everyone should learn how to do better, and I mean at a school, not from online.

[torn shoal]

u know, just because i understood something different than you doesnt mean i lack critical thinking

i played the story from start to finish, all the manhunts, if i ended up thinking like that its not watching ngn that will change anything

[ashen jungle]

saying that our agents are "not good guys", because we didn't open a dialogue with the first Rioters we saw is just so incredibly simplistic.

im not saying you lack critical thinking skills, im saying that you should refine them.

[torn shoal]

nah i think i lack in explaining things in a way normal people understand

but obviously im simpliying things

[ashen jungle]

regardless of all of this: it has nothing to do with discussing the lore of div itself, and it's a conversation about morals.
so lets end this here.

[torn shoal]

ye i guess u right

[gaunt ice]

eh i think a story can still make sense and be bad at the same time, they aren’t mutually exclusive

[glad spruce]

Unfortunate that next season's PTS don't give any indication for the story.

[ashen jungle]

I'm fine with not having spoilers in the test server.

[glad spruce]

Just finished transcripting all Y7S1 Manhunt comms.

[echo turret]

That’s part of the story actually. It’s cause the boss was trained by a hunter and was able to hack the UI to manipulate the objective.

[late void]

This is the lore channel, but yes that's a known bug, it's under investigation by the devs. Doesn't happen every time so try wiping to reset that fight and try again.

[hollow quail]

Oh, I apologize! thanks @late void

[sinful mauve]

Sad she wasnt impatient enough and with her anger issue lol

[sudden mortar]

I think you're going to have a surprise in the store since you like cats.

[glad spruce]

Yes, I am very happy about the surprise

[torn shoal]

do you prefer surprises or cats ?
(there is a right answer, so chose well)

[glad spruce]

Cats

[torn shoal]

you're goddamn right

[torn shoal]

been a while since we seen a scam

I wish they were more creative tho

@patent narwhal if u up

can't use modmail

[patent narwhal]

[floral gull]

Has NGN retired?

[torn shoal]

i think he has health problems atm so he cant really upload

[glad spruce]

Yeah.

I could try doing lore videos meself, but my voice is effin shite.

[torn shoal]

i have a nice voice from what ive been told, but my french accent will def make people bleed from their ears lmao

[ashen jungle]

Not super nice then.

As long as you are physically capable of speaking, you can train your voice to improve when presenting, it's all about projecting.

[frosty bluff]

I’ve got quite a lisp so I wouldn’t be comfortable doing one

[ashen jungle]

Having a good presenting voice is very much not the deciding factor here.
I don't really know if anyone here is exactly qualified to do deep-dives on lore videos.

[torn shoal]

i dont think its about going on deep dive but more like recap of whats going on

[ashen jungle]

Yeah that'd be a stretch for most of the people I read on here.

I'm happy to be surprised.

[torn shoal]

idk, i know most people play on and off, but on the lore channel, most people are up to speed

[glad spruce]

I could do recaps, but I'm more interested in doing deep dives for some of the characters.

[sweet crypt]

She really didn't like the cat.

[glad spruce]

Made it more satisfying eliminating Keiko Nakama off the board

[ember temple]

Nobody can replace NGN

[glad spruce]

Obviously.

I just wanna give my own take on recapping the story and doing a deep dive or two if necessary.

[torn shoal]

if i was doing story content id do the different character voice over for their own story and how they view the world

"thoses damn agents always fighting for the wrong side imma kill them all thats all they deserve" -mcmanus prob

[cold quiver]

I swear, if Division 3 takes place on the coast, Hawaii or maybe the Outerbanks or somesuch? I will not be happy unless we get to drive around a SUBMARINE.

[sinful mauve]

'If' there is, whose gotta be our main antagonist faction if Black Tusk defeated at Div 2 (maybe)

Cabal all i know has less information about it. Hunters wont be. it'll break the immersion of them being mysterious enemies

[ashen jungle]

Div3 has been confirmed that it's being worked on, we know for a fact that we're going to hear some kind of division related news at Gamecom.

[cold quiver]

Yeah. I do hope Black Tusk remains active in Division 3. From what I understand, they are very powerful and a very large organization, rivalling that of the Division, if not larger. And they're well funded. But maybe we'll see another big threat, or bigger, or perhaps Europe has become some form of superstate in the years since the Green Poison first spread across the planet.
We can only wait and see.

[ashen jungle]

PMC's are an easy villain that no one is going to complain about, I wouldn't be shocked if MSV stuck with them for the future.
on a less meta level: i do think we're going to see more of them anyway, as they're the perfect antagonist.

[torn shoal]

i mean, main antagonist in div 1 was another pmc, so might get a third one in the third game

[ashen jungle]

The difference between LMB and BT are pretty much night and day. LMB were the "sympathetic" PMC, in that they broke their contract for a less sinister reason, meanwhile BT are bond villains without the volcano lairs.

wait nvm, flying fortnress.

[torn shoal]

obv, but i mean we can get another pmc bigger and meaner

[ashen jungle]

nah, the only way they can go more evil is if div ties in with the Assassins Creed franchise, and makes the Templars the ultimate villains.

[torn shoal]

or maybe we get a fully new setting, and pmcs dont exist anymore

like we had into the apocalypse in div1, psot apo in div 2, why not a fully normal society in div 3

[ashen jungle]

I doubt they would abandon the story work they've done so far for a setting that doesn't work with the "shadowy government conspriracy" angle

[torn shoal]

no we keep the lore and story, but like we jump in the future a few years

but its mostly fanfic, so cant really go too much into it

[ashen jungle]

I mean thats the obvious angle to take, but a totally different villain showing up would have to mean that BT would be fully sorted out by the end of div2's life-cycle.

[cold quiver]

MYeah. As for "flying fortress", maybe that's what we'll have in Div 3. Our own zeppelin.

[torn shoal]

yeah im imagining that we get to win in div 2 at some point, and there is only some remnants of factions left

[ashen jungle]

I can't picture 1 more DLC killing off all of their power base.

[torn shoal]

i guess at some point if div 3 comes out, they will stop working on div 2, at least content wise, so we would get an end of story arc

if story is complete, why not get a fully new settings, after all in a fully new world post apocalypse, everything is possible

[ashen jungle]

that sounds dangerously close to New Dawn, and no one needs that.

[torn shoal]

then imagine new dawn but with good writing lol

never played it tho so idk what its like

[ashen jungle]

its what happens when a fanfic author gets to make a game.

[cold quiver]

Yeah. Though Black Tusk is very powerful and a very large PMC, so they might not be possible to fully take down within Division 2 - because The Division might not be powerful enough yet. I'd imagine The Division is having similar struggles in most of the US, but I can see one last major update to Division 2 where the Division gets to build itself up into a true military-grade fighting force, which then leads into the Division 3 and we get to see some new amazing features and gadgets.
For one, many people want a mobile base, so either we take an abandoned Black Tusk hovercraft - just ONE is effectively a mobile base. Or we get either some form of... giant crawler, or a flying fortress like the Zeppelin we see in Brooklyn, but possibly a much larger one for the Division.

[ashen jungle]

A mobile base is a bad idea and makes no sense outside of a scifi/fantasy setting.

[cold quiver]

Tell that to Black Tusk.

[ashen jungle]

I'm talking about your fanfic idea of a new one, which honestly, I have not seen one person say that they want a mobile base.

[cold quiver]

Maybe I saw it elsewhere in a video, I can't recall where though. It was a while ago.
If I can't track it down, consider my statement as criminally invalid.

[ashen jungle]

I'm going to do that anyway.

but i digress, I doubt they're going to flush all the work in div2, unless they take a drastic new direction.

[cold quiver]

Mmmh, we'll see. Though I like the Black Tusk as an adversary, and the way the story has unfolded, I think they are still too powerful to entirely destroy. And Sokolova is very powerful and wealthy, so there's that, but nothing says Black Tusk can't at least be properly crippled and forced onto the backfood in Disivion 2, which would make room for a new main enemy in Division 3. And possibly an alliance with Black Tusk? Or they ally the new antagonist faction. There's many routes to take.

[torn shoal]

i mean, some newbie author can do some nice stuff, but obv they cant just make "oh that'd be cool" story xd

[sick lantern]

I like having the BoO be in important landmark buildings, it ties you in to the setting
"similar but different" for each locale

[torn shoal]

anyways all im saying, we got a new setting for div 2, so for div 3 its not out of possibilities

obv i have no idea whats it gonna be

but i like when they shake up things

[ashen jungle]

The setting for div2 was due to it being the centre of government in the US, and our main mission statement is continuity of government.
If that changes, I still see it being in a major landmark of some sort, but I doubt that.

[sick lantern]

they could save the BT for Div 3 dlc, same as they did for Keener in 2

[torn shoal]

no i meant we went from "situation is bad but salvageable" to "lmao try salvaging this we failed so hard in the first game" (we were poised to fail cause we were activated too late obv virus was already spread out)

tho i dont think a change in setting will happen, im just hoping for one

we might have a faction within bt that rise up and wanna do things differently tho (like meaner), and might have to ally with some bt officers to take them down for the sake of everyone, like lewis for the true sons

[glad spruce]

Kinda feels early to discuss Division 3's story when it's still years away from release.

[ashen jungle]

Speculation based on vague evidence and hints is bread+butter for lore talks.

[torn shoal]

we're not even on speculations since we litterally have 0 info lol im more like saying what i hope could happen, but yeah, its way too early anyway

for all we know even gta6 might get a release before div 3 xd

[glad spruce]

Tomorrow's the 102nd Descent comm. Should be interesting.

[torn shoal]

whats different ?

[glad spruce]

It's spoilery, so it's best you wait till tomorrow with my summary. Or at least a video of the comm itself from our esteemed youtuber, rogue-agent.

[glad spruce]

Descent comm 102, Castle.

||Theo Parnell gets a call from Faye Lau who was very pissed at Keener and his cell using the Eclipse on Castle Clinton. Parnell insists that the people who were killed during the attack weren't innocent, they were either Hunters or Cals' Loyalists save for one guy they've put in the chamber (Tchernenko) and Division agents rescued him.||

||Parnell then tells Lau that those people who died in Castle Clintron weren't heroes she thought they were. They were not collateral damage. They were the target, and they couldn't tell her.||

||Theo then argues to Faye that she had to be angry and furious at Keener's cell for her cover to work, especially when Kelso trusts her, considering she can smell bull*** from a mile away. So in order for Faye to continue the mission, they needed Kelso to draw Nat and Black Tusk to New York.||

||Furthermore, Theo mentions that Kelso has the BSAV and knows where they could find April Kellher, especially when Nat has been tracking April since she showed up in DC, and Kelso helped her disappear.||

||Theo manages to talk down Faye by convincing her that they need her to infilitrate the Black Tusk, and they need her to recover April and the BSAV before Nat does.||

[frosty bluff]

||Looks like we might be finally meeting April Kelleher soon||

[torn shoal]

||wait how did we go from "some hunters embedded into civilians" to "all of them are bt elements" even tho bt wasnt in new york yet and its supposed to be a jft base ?
that would mean bt doesnt juste have a mole like summer in some places, but is a major part of jft/peacekeeper numbers||

[glad spruce]

||Again, you misread. Theo didn't mention Black Tusk assets during the attack, he mentioned the people who were in Castle Clinton were either Hunters or Cal's loyalists (aka not Black Tusk)||

||And the whole reason Keener and his Rogues wanted Kelso in New York so Natalya and the Black Tusk could be there, so Faye can be able to infiltrate the organization.||

[torn shoal]

||i mean if you're cal/nat loyalist and not bt, what are you ? also i know hunters are a different faction technically, but its only technically, they are nats dog so far tbh
but then what are they ? they arent factionless, since they disguise as jft soldiers, what were their goals, why were they passing as jtf, why there, especially without bt in the area, whats the point

like a few guys infiltrated in the group, i get it, they keep tab on everyone around, but the whole castle ? whats the point beside having a fortified base of operation, it was an hospital so they were literally helping bt enemies||

[frosty bluff]

||Also, what about Dan Abbot --the guy we save at Castle Clinton? Was he in on it or was he one of the few not a part of the scheme?||

[glad spruce]

||One of the few||

[late void]

||lucky coincidence if the one person we save at city hall and the one at castle clinton just happen to be the only 'good' guys there...||

[glad spruce]

||Well, there has been some theories of Agent De La Cruz being possibly a Hunter||

[marble dawn]

||Cal is working with Nat & BT, not part of them||

||We don't have the specifics of what being a "Cal's loyalist" entails, but with the information available I'd assume they are normal JTF who take orders from Cal. I don't think there was any disguising done in that regard||

[torn shoal]

anyone taking orders from cal is knowingly betraying fellow Jtf soldiers, there is not "but agents are rogue" if you betray everyone, it's you who betray, not everyone else betraying you

also there is 0 concrete difference between cal/hunters and nat/bt, she even order hunters directly in some missions, it's not like they are allies, they work for her

[marble dawn]

At the time Castle Clinton attack takes place DC agents were not even aware of Cal's antics, and I'd expect a JTF mook to be even less in the loop.

The concrete difference is BT follows Nat because she is their boss and they 'adore her', Hunters follow Nat because Cal is their boss and their boss tells them to follow Nat.

[sick lantern]

“loyalist” is a very specific and charged term

[torn shoal]

doesn't matter, if they are all cal loyalist, ready to kill anyone, then why cosplay as Jtf? they got the means to wreck havoc on the city, why waste meds and supplies on civilians?

also the "by miracle the only guy not loyalist was spared", but didn't notice everyone else wanted him dead lol

[patent narwhal]

I really don't think mass casualties on innocents is fine because uhhhhhhhh there was like 1 really evil bad guy there we pwomise line of thinking is really a great way for the story to go or good people to work with

it gets to a point where the convenient explanations for all the bad the rogues did becomes too much and comes off as an excuse and this one really feels like a lazy excuse

no you see all the people we just killed they're/they were actually really bad n evil in disguise so its okay actually just believe us we swear it was just for the BT to arrive however when they kill people the same way its bad because uhhhhhhhh they're worse!

[glad spruce]

You call it lazy excuse, I call it doing whatever it takes to put the hurt against Black Tusk/Hunters

[patent narwhal]

killing innocent people is bad actually

[glad spruce]

If they're working for Nat and Cal, then they're not innocent.

They're complicit. Or at worst, supportive of what they're doing.

[patent narwhal]

oh no anything but complicit better just kill them that'll solve everything

how are we any better than them at the point where we just start killing people because we believe they may or may not be involved

black tusk mass slaughter (bad) SHD/Rogue mass slaughter (good)

[glad spruce]

Yes, because whatever heinous things we're doing, it's nothing compared to what Black Tusk is doing.

[patent narwhal]

power hungry free killing organization 1 vs power hungry free killing organization 2

I think killing innocent people is bad actually!

[glad spruce]

Anyone not willing to do what it takes to win against Black Tusk is a liability.

[patent narwhal]

yes I'm sure killing innocent people is really gonna show the black tusk

[glad spruce]

Again, the people in Castle Clinton weren't innocent. They were Cal's loyalists.

[patent narwhal]

I don't really care I still think that's an extremely stupid excuse for attacks with mass casualties and collateral damage

[glad spruce]

But then again, we've had this conversation several times. Wheter Keener and his Rogues or Black Tusk are the real enemy.

So I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

[patent narwhal]

especially when its basically vigilantism for no reason other than trust us we're telling the truth we're going against the man!!! (said by known group of liars and schemers who've killed people for next to no reason)

it's not even whos the real enemy it's that hand waving away acts that were written and shown as really bad horrific acts like 5 years later as just actually they were bad so its okay and justified! is not only a lazy excuse but kinda derails the whole thing of us actually being good in any form

[sleek plover]

Damn i really hate lmb

[patent narwhal]

if we can just kill people and say they were bad just because they even slightly supported the enemy then we may as well be every other faction in the series killing people because they disagree with us

there's like several instances in D2 alone where they show true sons & outcasts just killing people because they even slightly went against them/their ideals and I fear that the story for us is just going to get to that point because the idea of gassing people to death because they supported someone else is way too close to the line for that

[glad spruce]

I suppose.

At the end of the day, this whole fight is about rebuilding civilization. We just disagree on the methods.

[patent narwhal]

it'd be fine if they actually commited to actually writing what if the division was actually bad!?!?? but they don't the story is always just going back n forth on if it wants to be that or not

[glad spruce]

Honestly, I'd like that, but I guess it'd clash with player's fantasy of being the most powerful Division agents.

[sick lantern]

you know there’s a difference between the IRL reason for something and the in-universe reason

[glad spruce]

I'm aware of that.

[torn shoal]

says who ? the public enemy number 1 that killed so many civilians ?

also bio weapon are still war crime, even on soldiers

also they didnt do anything wrong, even if they are indeed cal loyalist, thats no reason to execute them on the spot, like they were no threat, they didnt do anything wrong, even helped civilians, like whats the reason beside "you might be bad people acktually"

story lately is really going the road of "we good no matter what they bad no matter what" and justifying absolutely every bad stuff we do cause "its necessary cause we good"

which is a huge downgrade from "we arent perfect but we try to do the good thing, unlike this guy that does bad thing but had good motivations and just lost his ways"

[torn shoal]

tbh i think most people dont follow the story at all, they wanna shoot stuff, thats it

like in spec ops the line, a game renowed for how much of a bad guy u are the entire time, and how your actions are "justified" cause you think you're the good guys, and yet there are so many gamers that dont understand it at all and think "i dont get it we won but i got the bad ending"

so between thoses who dont get it, and thoses who dont even care in the first place, only the lore nerds like us will actually talk about it

i really wish the story went the road of "what if division bad, after all they create so many rogues and they only kill people", and even use the deepfake from the brooklyn dlc to stage worse stuff happenning, and we had to like regain the trust of the civilians, but its hard since we are the fighting hand of a bad gov in the first place, even if our intentions are good, our orders arent really good, so people are right to question our motivations/actions, even the electrician guy would be like "i warned yall but you dont listen cause you think im a conspirationnist"

if we just go the "we good no matter what and enemies are comically vilains no matter what", then why have a story even, it would be a reskin of any tps game

anyway i might have went for too long of a rant

[patent narwhal]

this is my main problem both in IRL writing terms and in game

we have another example in game where gassing people is shown as horrible and trying to defend that would be horrible so why would we even bother trying to defend gassing people with a bioweapon

it doesnt matter if it was for the right cause both externally and internally its just a horrible thing to defend its being cruel for no reason

you're telling me kelso can sneak into the WHITE HOUSE but they dont have a single person they could call on to just wipe out castle clinton/city hall either steathly or normally instead they just HAVE to gas people???

theres just no way to spin GASSING people as a good thing and I would imagine if it got out that we're working with people who have gassed people basically everyone on our side would either leave or mutiny

[torn shoal]

i mean its obvious that they trying to retcon as much as possible in the story, but doing so by saying "well actually they are bad people thoses who died" doesnt change the fact that yeah, the killing was still horrible

because anyone will say "the end justify the mean" doesnt understand that EVERYONE think they are a good person and doing the good thing, nobody wakes up thinking "i think i like killing innocent people and its good we gonna reduce everyone else to slavery, its bad for the world and for people but its good for only me"

cal think he is the legitimate authority in the us, and think using a pmc is a good mean to his end, nat think she is more important than anyone else and killing civilians is good, and so on

so the good old "we good they bad" doesnt stand at all, why would we be good in the first place ? whats the moral authority that says "they gas people so its bad but we gas people too but its ok cause we good"

every soldier think he is fighting for the right side, otherwise they wouldnt fight in the first place

[glad spruce]

I think with the current state of the world in the Division as it is, the notions of morality and ethics kind of went out of the window

[torn shoal]

not really, they just got in a more fked up way, but morality is still kinda the same

like war crimes were bad before, why would they be good now ? also if we enforce our rule by killing our opponents, why are we legitimate and not the other faction doing the same ? cause they comically evil ? thats the easy escape

[ashen jungle]

Okay folks, let's leave the IRL stuff out of here.

Again.

[torn shoal]

we're talking ingame ? i dont see the irl

im not looking to piss u off im genuine lol

[patent narwhal]

atp we may as well not care that the true sons bombed the castle

IRL talk is when war crimes I guess

[torn shoal]

ah

well i mean its just stuff that is considered horrible by anyone, so when it happen you dont even have to double check to take a side, thats why keener doing the same as true sons should tell us "hm maybe he is not on our side ?"

[patent narwhal]

ignore that it entirely applies to the context of gassing people and that war crimes would still very much be a thing in the division universe

[torn shoal]

i guess the base story is too much close to irl, div 1 wanted to be kinda grounded, div 2 clearly went for the less grounded story, but it still has the same base, so yeah its kinda hard to differenciate i guess

i guess less grounded would be better to separate

but from a writing perspective, if your hero in the story uses the same horrible tactics as the bad guys, they aint different, it can be a good tool to say "well actually the story is grey and the bad guy isnt really that bad or you arent really that good", but sadly is often goes the other route

obviously the writer arent new/beginners, so idk why we going that route, there can be way too many reasons for this

hoping we get something like that in the next manhunts

it doesnt make the story "bad", but clearly its not up to our(my) expectations

[tepid ibex]

i disagree

(i will not elaborate)

[torn shoal]

I audibly laughed and it's not good cause it's 1 am here lmao my neighbor gonna be mad, shame on you for that lmao

[ashen jungle]

Complaints about the Manager Manhunt aside, giving us that comm here Keiko talked about murdering a cat was a very effective way to make us want to shoot her in the face.

[obtuse chasm]

Is there any canon couple in the game so far? I liked to know

[ashen jungle]

Lau was dating Viper, and of course there's Manny+Mari.

Theo was (is?) having a kid with someone, uh I'm drawing a blank on the rest.

[obtuse chasm]

Oh didn't know lau was dating viper

Im surprise no one dating keener at this point

[obsidian jay]

he is old man
grandpa
it is too late.

[torn shoal]

he has a crush on the girl from the incursion but it didn't really work out iirc

[torn shoal]

how to make a vilain 101 : make them hate cats and puppy

[obtuse chasm]

Keener missing out a lot of baddie

[torn shoal]

not sure lot of people wanna date public enemy number 1 tho, even if he is cute for his age he still is a wall street guy at heart, so not a good type

[sleek plover]

Hope we break the AC in his room

and play Justin Bieber music

[fast wharf]

Isn't he engaged?

Like doesn't he have a wedding ring

[late void]

Eh, there's a whole comm about him wearing a wedding ring to manipulate how other people see him