division-universe

[glad spruce]

Well, the key art in Battle for Brooklyn shows the agents in a fall setting, so there's that

[torn shoal]

i'd love if we actually had seasons changing in div 2

can you imagine like next season/year it actually happen and they change the map ?

or brooklynn dlc is actually on a colder setting

i know dc and wony map wont change but itd be cool

we had weather changes before, like more or less snow but actual seasons would be awesome

[upbeat timber]

I mean. Due to the manhunt timeline. We are basically in late summer/early fall rn

[glad spruce]

Fall can get pretty cold at times

[upbeat timber]

Chilly. Not cold 🥶

[torn shoal]

in the us, its cold

[upbeat timber]

Depends where your at

[torn shoal]

brooklyn is up north, not in florida

[glad spruce]

Precisely

[upbeat timber]

In NYC. Yes

[mortal flame]

Well that’s news…

[little basalt]

can anyone tl;dr me what's latest plot

[glad spruce]

Keener and Theo faked their deaths using hologram technology.

We're working with them since they're the key to stop Black Tusk.

But before we head to Brooklyn, we need to locate Kelso while uncovering more truth about Faye Lau, her Cassandra mission, and Schaeffer's role in all of this

[sudden mortar]

Well we went pretty far from a classified group tasked to save what remains to a civil warfare against a PMC using future sci-fi tech in the middle.

[glad spruce]

Yeah

But then again, I'd argue that the Division's mandate wasn't gonna work out.

And the way I see it, if saving what remains meant installing Black Tusk, Nat, and Cal in power, I'd prefer not to be part of it

Or as I like to call Nat; Disaster Capitalist Barbie

[torn shoal]

the division was always gonna fail

systemic problem require systemic solutions

not individuals trying to do whats right

its like 50 dudes fighting climate change by using paper straw, while 10 oil rig spill everything in the ociean

we can be as powerful as we want when we fight, it wont matter cause we cant be everywhere at all times

it sells as game since you're main protagonist and you're saving the world by yourself cause video game logic, but it doesnt work to actually impact anything realistically

but daddy wants more money and power so we get fkd and die

[obsidian jay]

atleast not anymore
50% of us are f---ing dead because of green poison
and other
things

[torn shoal]

how u know that ?

cause i'd say way more agents are dead, 1st wave was completely wiped out or became rogues

[obsidian jay]

Probably way more
just a small estimate
just going off what I saw and did
such as killing alot of random rogue appearances in div2
and the amount of dead wave 1 agents I saw in div1
and the dead LMB agents that we killed
and theres probably more dead in the Dark Zones due to player activity

[torn shoal]

i wonder if there is a comm that estimate agents/rogues numbers

[sick lantern]

let's say roughly there are at least 40-50 first wave agents off the top of my head, times that by all 50 states, there would be at least 2,000 Division agents in the country

[past wagon]

Idk i feel like north dakota probably doesnt have the same amount of agents as ny 🤣

[sick lantern]

true I considered that, but moreso in the fact that 40-50 was a lowball estimate

I'd be surprised if every state capital didn't have at least 40 agents

[ornate gull]

Snow would be fine

Atlong it not heavy snowfall during outdoor mission

Imaging get Vision range reduce by 75%

[fringe gale]

im not the only one thinking Viper's the next Rogue to be resurrected right

and unlike Theo and Keener (kind of), i wouldnt mind if she was lol. the recent comms have been making me far more interested in her character

[glad spruce]

I'm with you there, mate.

I'm not convinced she's dead, especially when one of Descent's comms from last season had her mention Birdie was sent to the Castle Settlement which happened in Y5S2

[sand slate]

Why do they come back? I remember destroying Keener with LMG and Sniper rounds to the face just to see him later

[sick lantern]

couple months ago

[torn shoal]

i dont think they gonna resurect more people

not the ones we know for sure are dead at least, the ones we arent sure they might come back

viper death was very gore, cause she had a message to send

and comms said they planned theo and keener death, not anyone else

keener was even surprised viper got killed

[glad spruce]

I'm pretty sure there are no comms where Keener was surprised about Viper.

She's not dead, and y'all will see the light.

[ashen jungle]

Queue it's always sunny theme.

[glad spruce]

They used a Mobile SHD Server, a copy of the simulation, and ANNA to create a hologram replica of themselves to fake their deaths.

And in case you ask, this only works if you have a copy of the simulation, ANNA's backdoor access, and a Mobile SHD Server. And it can only trick Division agents since they wear their specialized lenses

Laugh if you want, but I'm still not convinced that Bridgette Douglas is dead

[ashen jungle]

So just to confirm, the Theo+Keener fight's were holograms?

I'm assuming it was Sokolova running them, what about the video at the start of WONY, of the Rogue team killing those JTF/Peacekeepers?

[glad spruce]

Yes. Only in those fights. Sokolova didn't run them. And yes, they killed the JTF/Peacekeepers as bait.

Why do you care about the JTF? They're useless

[ashen jungle]

This is not about personal opinion, I'm just trying to confirm something.

Mainly: how Theo was able to melee me during his fight.

Were there floating drones inside the holograms that fired guns?

I'm not expecting you to know btw, just curious if anyone has definitive answers.

[late void]

I would be inclined to guess that they were present during the fight, but only activated the hologram and ran off right at the end (although tbf that is a pretty risky approach)

[ashen jungle]

So they were actually present during the fight, meaning that Keener did want to nuke Manhattan with warcrimes?

[late void]

eh, the 'missile target: Manhattan' thing was said by ANNA, so could easily be a lie, although not sure to what purpose

[glad spruce]

Yeah

[ashen jungle]

The missles leaking red gas and hurting us is a bit hard to fake with words.

[late void]

well, no reason to think there wasn't eclipse present, as we know that exists

[torn shoal]

wasnt it ? i def remember keener being surprised his friend died and that he didnt anticipated that

[late void]

maybe keener just wrote the 'story' of the missile because he really wanted to fake his death and disappear off BT's radar for a while, and had to give us sufficient motivation

[ashen jungle]

Keener just being there was enough to warrant a kill order on him, he didn't need to actually launch the missles.
I guess the fail-state is non-canon.

[glad spruce]

I think you heard it wrong. I'll just check it when I'm in game.

Do you remember the name of the comm?

[torn shoal]

dont remember much sorry, but i do remember they were talking about keener was surprised agents managed to kill them, maybe it was kajika ? im not sure anymore

[glad spruce]

Then it was Kajika, cuz I remember that one from Y5S3

[ashen jungle]

Kajika's death reminded me a lot of what people thought happened with the Viper during mid-show Game of Thrones.

hah, viper. That's a fun connection.

[torn shoal]

aight, i remember the wrong one then

but i really dont think viper was faking her death

she def was in a cult

not really the type to let things go

[ashen jungle]

I think people would accept the un-deaths more if the plot was a little more "forward paced". Bringing characters back is 100% fine and this is far from the first franchise to do it, but with everything else happening, it feels a little like we're in a holding pattern.
I assume that's due to the DLC being delayed, but that part is speculation.

[glad spruce]

Ehh, the comms over the past few seasons showed she had a change of heart and had no love for Nat nor to Black Tusk.

I'll bet she'll talk crap about Nat in this season comms lol

[fringe gale]

i knew i wasnt crazy

for a little bit i thought they had just screwed up a line and were gonna clear it up later on

[ashen jungle]

It wouldn't be the first time that's happened.
Lau was considered "maybe alive" between an entire Seasonal break, until MSV cleared it up.

[torn shoal]

lmao if lau was alive half the chat would revolt

i still remember how many of us were arguing about if her death had meaning

[glad spruce]

It does. Without her, we wouldn't have discovered the rabbit hole we dug ourselves in xD

[ashen jungle]

I will only accept Lau coming back, if it's a tie-in with The Rookie.

I'm going to get Nathan Fillion in the div franchise somehow, damnit.

[torn shoal]

if that happen he will be in lot of franchises i follow

rip in pieces firefly

love the guy

[ashen jungle]

I can picture him as a live-action Keener, John Hopkins might not be up for the physical performance anymore.

[torn shoal]

idk, keener is not the funny type of guy fillon is

for the rest i'd agree tho

[ashen jungle]

He's played the villain/serious before, dude has range.

[torn shoal]

yeah for sure, but i watched him in so many comedies, it feels weird

he was great in community too playing the mafia janitor

[mortal flame]

Buck reporting for duty lol.

[potent smelt]

Words of wisdom from the best gunny this side of new Mombasa

[glad spruce]

This is the lore channel, buddy

[true fox]

There will be maintenance tomorrow, do you think you can add more recordings in descent mode?

If it stops there, where Douglas says it will be the next target, I believe it creates a gap

[glad spruce]

Since they often added more Descent comms at the release of a season in the past, I highly doubt it. 90 is more than likely the max

If I'm wrong tomorrow, you may call me Hawky the Clown

[true fox]

If not, these gaps can be exploited in the current season or DLC-2 communications if she is in the base of operations.

[ashen jungle]

It's going to be so funny if MSV add a single comm tomorrow.

[glad spruce]

Well, we do get one comm per week, so there's that.

[ashen jungle]

Nah, I mean a single comm, so the true end amount is 91.

I'm sure if I was less tired I could think of a lore reason why it's 91.

[glad spruce]

Well, in that case, you're free to change my nickname lol

[torn shoal]

i know i will

[ashen jungle]

"H4WK5T3R" it is.

[torn shoal]

u know what

if they resurect viper you can rename to lyfe the clown

or whatever you like

we gotta make some bold choices in life

[ashen jungle]

I want to make a claim too, but I like my name too much.

and the only claim I can think of right now is a pun based on Keener's VA and a university.

[torn shoal]

You can make a claim and we get to say "we were right and you were wrong" if you lose

[ashen jungle]

Sorry, the stakes are just too high for me.

[torn shoal]

Understandable

[glad spruce]

Have a good day

[torn shoal]

My man got the good références

[pallid harness]

french keyboard slipped

[torn shoal]

Leave my French alone it's already hard enough to be one :(

[pallid harness]

hey, I don't blame you, I'm studying the language and have it in my keyboard selector

[torn shoal]

You're gonna suffer as I suffer

[sleek plover]

Outcast Mentality

You'll make a fine outcast.

May Lady Emeline bless thee with her divine truth.

[torn shoal]

i mean

the outcast were right tho

they target the wrong people, but they are right in their grievances

but to be real, thats all the gov fault, they left them to die and suffer, they didnt care about them, when they should have

their pain is very real and everyone else still reject them

you cant hammer a group a people and expect things to end up nicely

the gov exist to help its people, not to let them die in agony to save the rich

and if they revolt and you send death machines their way, you're way worse than anything

same way most first wave survivors went rogue, they were sent to fight but left to die, and they didnt like that

you can argue all day about whats best for the most people, in the end if you need to sacrifice/hurt someone to make people happy, you're not on the good side

something something moral philosophy

one of the moral dilemma people dont understand, is the choice between utility and morality

a common example would be the trolley problem, but i like another one

say you enter a city, everyone is living their best life, but then you see a guy being tortured endelessly, and that guy being tortured is the reason everyone is fine

if the torture stop, everything goes to chaos

is that moral ? would you stop it ?

there is no "right" answer, it depends how you view it, but it tells a lot about your morals and how you see the world and its problems

(sorry for the wall of text)

[glad spruce]

Manhunt Comm 2, Meet Cute.

||In this comm, Bridgette Douglas shares a part of her conversation with Faye Lau from one of Season 4's comms to Aaron Keener. Keener admits that Douglas was not Lau expected, being that she has sexual attraction to women.||

||Douglas pridefully admits being a member of the "lesbian mafia" since 1993, though she mentions that it wasn't good for her father's business, which Keener didn't like.||

||When asked about Lau, Keener thinks she's dangerous for Douglas, though he conceded she'd be good for the cause and suggested not to sleep together.||

||Douglas argues that'll blow her cover, and mentions that living in the Black Tusk is like living with beautiful people in peak condition and having o**ies most of the time cuz there's nothing to do between combat||

||Keener conceded, telling Douglas to do what she to do, but recommends her to stay focused||

[torn shoal]

oh well, we cant say people want to sleep with each other

automod is angry

[glad spruce]

When you work for a PMC with nothing to do between operations in the post-apocalypse, you gotta do what you gotta to have some fun

[torn shoal]

when you gotta take over the world and ubi servers are down

[glad spruce]

Uh-huh

Sorry, but I have no humor today

[ashen jungle]

It did seem a bit like a non-sequitur.

[glad spruce]

Does the fact that these characters have their own things really bother people that much?

Besides, Douglas said it that much. ||She don't get to sleep with Faye, Black Tusk would have had been suspicious||

[ashen jungle]

try "sleep with",

[torn shoal]

wym it bother people ?

[glad spruce]

Y'know the whole thing with Manny and Theo having pregnant girlfriends? Well, some people didn't like that part, so maybe I'm being over cautious

[ashen jungle]

Are the people who didn't like it in the room with us now?

[glad spruce]

No?

[civic trellis]

i think they mean they consider romance sideplots boring to the game

no need to dig deeper than that

[ashen jungle]

Okay, ANNA's comment at the completion of this week's scout genuinely made me laugh.

For anyone who doesn't know, "fridge" or "fridging" is a comic-book term, where they pointlessly kill off a character to create a dramatic twist or turn.

This season's feeling rather meta, I kinda dig it.

[fringe gale]

Freak Tusk was not what i was expecting

[ashen jungle]

I'm like, 90% sure that was a joke on her part.

BT reminds me of TNG era-star trek, where it feels like a bunch of space mormons.

[civic trellis]

does feel like they were genuine competent but now are just a bunch of bumbling idiots

[ashen jungle]

I've not got that impression about BT at all.

How do I put this in a way straight people will understand.

[civic trellis]

mormons

[ashen jungle]

Lesbians are not good at picking up signals.

[civic trellis]

i read morons

just mistake on my part

now not only i write with typos i now read with typos

[ashen jungle]

Don't feel too bad, I was spelling it as "Arialdi" for 4 years.

I will say, the current writing is honestly the best we've had, as far as nuance goes. The last thing I'd expect is a reference as niche as "fridging" in the div universe.

[torn shoal]

same with autistic people like me, and oh boy were the signals readable from space even lmao

but its the kind of stuff if you're a spectator or if you're seeing it in a movie you're like "oh my god just kiss already"

its funny

when you're talking about nsfw stuff and just add "we must really be good friends" on top thats just chef kiss

[glad spruce]

Well, I'm glad you're liking it so far

[ashen jungle]

It's shockingly tricky to find well written queer content, and so far this is better than the bad average, so I'll take it.

[plain junco]

...now why you gotta drag us like this

[ashen jungle]

The best we got is Sera, so I feel that says a lot.

[torn shoal]

sera ?

[ashen jungle]

LI in DA:I.

If you don't know any of that shorthand, don't worry about it.

[torn shoal]

my ex was a big DA fan

very nerdy about it haha

[ashen jungle]

If there's one series that deserves it, it's split between that and ME.
I would commit several felonies for a crossover, even though it makes no sense.

[torn shoal]

yeah, same for them

they do love bioware stuff

i kinda dislike ME 3 ending but its a good game still

[late void]

I've been working through them recently, replayed origins and now most of the way through 2, got Inquisition free from epic a while back so will move on as soon as I'm ready

[ashen jungle]

Inqui is great, just remember one thing: follow the story, do not try and clear every area fully first.

It's similar to div2 in that regard.

[late void]

Oh dear, that's not my normal approach

I prefer to be thorough and mildly over leveled

[ashen jungle]

Inqui is an absolutely massive game, and at a certain point in the story it makes more thematic sense to go back and nuke out the maps.

You'll know it when you reach it

I refuse to spoil either series.

[late void]

Thanks for the tip!

[ashen jungle]

Since I helped derail this train, I'mma get us back on track.
Thoughts on Kandel returning?

[sick lantern]

i want her to grill manny for not using the bioreactor for anything

[torn shoal]

hold on kandel return ? thats neat

[ashen jungle]

Nothing confirmed, she was just the only leader in div1 that I could stand.

[torn shoal]

not even the conspiracy guy ?

[ashen jungle]

Rhodes sounded like he had a paid twitter account, and Benitez kept on talking whilst eating mashed potatoes.

[torn shoal]

paul rhodes or something

idk, rhodes was def onto something

i dont think he would have twitter bleu seeing whats happenning now

[ashen jungle]

The end of the div1 campaign had Rhodes go ~"yeah you guys are right, it's important that you were here".

[torn shoal]

oh i dont remember that

well he changed his mind in wony for sure

[ashen jungle]

Well, not in the exact words, but it's easy to forget about his turn-around, as it's undone by the time of WoNY.

[torn shoal]

cause he refused to let agents come in anymore

yeah basically

a lot of stuff in wony dont make sense

character wise

[ashen jungle]

Why those Rogues stopped breaking in to the Post Office to beat up Lau every night, I'll never know.

see if anyone remembers that one.

[torn shoal]

i know i dont lol

[strange rock]

Thought the conspiracy guy was Velassi

[torn shoal]

valassi is conspiracy guy but also completely nut and believe everything

rhodes wasnt completely whack and was on the truth a lot

[ashen jungle]

Weirdly, Valassi also has to admit that the SHD Agents were useful by the end of that campaign.

[torn shoal]

i mean, even with rogues doing bad stuff, its not like the jtf was getting anywhere

so i guess 2nd wave did some good

[ashen jungle]

The best the JTF could manage was showing some cut up footage of a copyright free christmas movie.

[torn shoal]

yeah cause obviously we cant break ip laws during the end of the world

we arent savages

i bet some of the rikers and hyenas illegally streamed some movies maybe even a ubi game

what a bunch of deliquants

[ashen jungle]

In Watchdogs 2, you break in to Ubisoft offices and steal an upcoming trailer, so there is precedent.

[torn shoal]

based

[late void]

Rhodes' whole problem was that the division had too much power and no oversight. I wonder if he would have modified it if he knew about the Hunter program (at least in their theoretical intention of being a fail-safe against rogue agents)

[torn shoal]

i mean, he would just say the same about hunters

even more power and even less oversight

[late void]

No, because agents have political authority to direct other agencies and work with jtf and so on, Hunters don't have that

I'm also inclined to assume McManus has some failsafe for Hunters too, maybe some psychological programming or embedded poison chip or something along those lines

[ashen jungle]

Super Hunters, calling it now.

[late void]

hunters all the way down

(or up, depending on your frame of reference)

[ashen jungle]

Terry Pratchett 100%.

[late void]

I believe it actually pre-dates him, he just made it more well-known

[ashen jungle]

I'm happy to give him credit. I even named my ship in WF A'tuin.

[late void]

yeah I certainly hadn't encountered the concept previously, but recently I went down an internet rabbit-hole on the subject and realised he was playing (as usual) with established myths

[torn shoal]

arent hunters agents too ?

[sick lantern]

the 3.1415th wave

[late void]

At least some of them, yes, but that's a different role - obviously they keep the Hunter thing secret.

[ornate gull]

I was thinking, do Manus have backup plan in case Division Agent kill every Hunter

This is include Shiny Hunter

[torn shoal]

i dont think so

agents are already the backup plan when everything else fail, and hunters are the back up plan of the back up plan

you can only have so many back up

[wicked gorge]

More logical answer, probably active a protocol to destroy the SHD network

[torn shoal]

if he had, he would already have used it

[glad spruce]

Well, I'm doing transcripts for Descent comms in the wiki.

Of course I won't do em all in one day, cuz that'd be stupid. So, I'm doing em 5-6 a day

[spark scroll]

BRUH - Anna be hating!!! "Why they always fridge lesbians" And JESUS ..... then the audio tape "Secret Lesbian mafia since 1993, not the best thing for Daddy Douglas' business." "Black Tusk is like the Olympic Village. Just beautiful people in peak condition having or!3s cause there's nothing else to do between fights"

I cannot BREATHE right now....... my GF is looking at me like im stupid right now.

[true fox]

is doing a great job

[glad spruce]

Huh?

[glad spruce]

Yeah, ANNA is really funny 😄

[mortal flame]

hawkster… when did you become a poofy cat?

[glad spruce]

Around September 2023

[mortal flame]

lol I guess I never noticed it was a cat….

[surreal hearth]

Sololova has been completely silent ever since keener and Parnell came back from the dead and we were unaware that Parnell now has a kid

[obtuse arrow]

And General Anderson faded into the abyss

[surreal hearth]

That guy is nowhere to be found but the alliance remains active cuss the true sons and the black tusk are the only two factions that are working together

[mortal flame]

Probably ending up dead in Div 3 lol. Cause his True Sons couldn’t get the job done. More expendable manpower for the Black Tusk….

For this “New World Order”

What if they made a Division streaming series??? It would so cool, agents activating, government collapsing/imploding, home grown rebels in the streets…..

[sudden mortar]

I can imagine that BT are only giving mission briefs personally since both SHD and BT know that the comms aren't safe anymore.

[torn shoal]

there was a movie in the work at some point

but i think it got canned cause there is no news since forever

during div 1 we had some short youtube videos with not really great actors telling us to do some stuff ingame, but that also got canned

i think the real life pandemic def made people not want to do a movie/series about division

[glad spruce]

Well, given the fact that our comms are their comms and Birdie went over to our side, they've been in comms blackout since then

Not only that, they've been working behind the scenes in rebuilding the Hyena Council

[surreal hearth]

Oh right the your comms and my comms situation

[sick lantern]

not cancelled, it finished

you got to kill the villain in game

[torn shoal]

no, it was cancelled, halfway through they stopped doing priority stuff then they added the villain to obtain the rest of apparel we didnt got

[sick lantern]

rip i guess

i mean i’ve never heard of it being cancelled and the comments on the last video don’t call it cancelled

[rain badger]

Okay I'm like 4 years behind on lore.
Last i played i did the warlords of new york dlc and beat keener and his team. Now I'm learning Keener and Theo are still alive and in custody...
To do what exactly

[glad spruce]

So, first things first, do you know what Descent mode is?

Because that relates to them

[torn shoal]

play the manhunts in order or check ngn channel to get updated on all the lore

[glad spruce]

Basic gist is that we're working with them to help us defeat Black Tusk and the Hunters

[rain badger]

No. I'm not at endgame yet. I'm trying to burn through the D.C campaign to get to endgame

[rain badger]

Gotcha

Does anyone sense a double crossing coming down the line from Keener and Theo?

[glad spruce]

Theo? No. Keener? It's possible.

Maybe after Nat and Cal are out of the picture

[torn shoal]

play the campaing entirely, then wony, then manhunts to not skip too much lore imo

otherswise you'll see everything in disorder

[late void]

I'm sure Keener would never dream of double crossing his allies once their usefulness was up.
(I'm actually fully expecting Kelso to do the same to him tbf)

[rain badger]

I thought the manhunts changed every season

[torn shoal]

you can replay the ending of old manhunts

but dont bother about it now, just do the campaing

[rain badger]

Oh ok

[sick lantern]

🤯

[glad spruce]

I dunno, something tells me that Kelso would die trying to kill Nat

[torn shoal]

imagine if nat died and anderson became their leader

from main threat to actually clowns

[mortal flame]

I was trying to be sarcastic about the movie…. Wish they actually got it off the ground. The French trailer for Division 2 did LA a reality and the Division 1 YT series was also pretty good with their limited budget

[mortal flame]

But learning from “our past” we can learn better for the future

[mortal flame]

Enemy of my enemy is my friend…. Until everyone starts killing each other once the main fighting’s done

Also. Does anyone know if the Achievements for Div 1 and Div 2 are completable with a reliable group? Would like to 90-100% the achievements before Div 3 comes around

[rain badger]

Well said lol

[mortal flame]

In the end I believe. No one wins, and we’ll basically be back at square -1… No SHD, No Black Tusk, just Rogues with crumbling tech becoming Warlords of their respective States/cities

And then another country will come in and wipe the slate clean for another home grown revolution, and thus the setting for Div 4 lol along the lines of Homefront franchise

[torn shoal]

its not about learning

its about getting money to finance it

and not a single investor will put a single dime into this cause they fear they wont gain anything and the film will crash

thats why most blockbuster are so lame, investor wants money, so they pick the most plain looking thing thinking it will attract as many people as possible

they dont want to risk losing everything into something deep and interesting when something kinda bad will bring more money

[mortal flame]

then we need a Fan Film. just like Star Wars theory’s Vader short

[torn shoal]

most fan film are really bad af, cause most fans dont udnerstand cinema and think big vfx + big guns = good movie

[mortal flame]

I propose the official 3D modeler of Div tech to help produce the equipment us agents need to create this “fan film”

[torn shoal]

good fan films are super rare

even actually good film writers dont always write good films

so now imagine someone with 0 experience and 0 budget

[mortal flame]

Fan film along the lines of found footage. They’ve done it for the videos we find along side the Echoes…. rip civilian and agent being executed by the BT

[torn shoal]

i mean, you still need budget

you can only go so far with cosplaying and closed spaces

if i wanna see a division film, i expect empty streets, lot of bodies piled up, big fights, betrayals, chopper for extraction, cleaners burning stuff, etc

you cant do that on amateur

[mortal flame]

Animated Division series could fix that lol

I got a few friends in animation…. it would be a dream…

[sick lantern]

there’s Agent Origins from Corridor Digital

which was sponsored by Ubi but is essentially high end fan content

[mortal flame]

Yup, we mentioned that above

[torn shoal]

animation cost a lot + takes a lot of time

no budget = wont happen

look arcane budget to understand how much it can cost

[sick lantern]

well i read those messages and it wasn’t there

to be incredibly pedantic

[glad spruce]

Descent comms 7-12 transcripted

[winged reef]

Just throwing this out there, a division vr game would be sick

[glad spruce]

Probably

[winged reef]

I think it would be pretty cool atmosphere wise if it was set in New York around the time of the first game. Maybe it could follow one of the many missing agents. Tho it would probably be set in a rural/suburban area due to hardware limitations on most headsets

[karmic perch]

Who did one time readen the Tom Clancy's books saga?

[tepid ibex]

if i had to guess….people

But i dont wanna jump to conclusions

[karmic perch]

Ah ah, nah, i mean i was asking about you all here. of course

[glad spruce]

I did read the Operation Crossroads novels

I do have the Rainbow Six novel, which I've yet to read

[idle swift]

I’m sure this is asked a lot. Is the a collection of info on div 3

[sick lantern]

div 3 info begins and ends at “maybe exists in the future”

[late void]

We don't really have any info on Div 3 beyond 'they're recruiting a dev team'

[glad spruce]

And finally, this is the lore/story channel, where we discuss the story/lore/novels of the Division universe

[mortal flame]

We need actual lore people to join that Dev team

They can do a “Somehow, insert name here returned”

[late void]

Hornet Mk3

They could make it a running joke where he has a minor role in every game that always ends with us killing him

[glad spruce]

So, Hornet would be the Division's equivalent of Kelgorath?

[glad spruce]

Descent comms 13-18 has been transcripted

[mortal flame]

[torn shoal]

hawkster the goat

[glad spruce]

[tepid ibex]

jinkies

[glad spruce]

Wrong channel, bro

[tepid ibex]

fuccin up my LORE, man

[glass notch]

What if the final burden of truth mission is grand Washington hotel

Where we first started

[glad spruce]

My theory is that the Climax mission would take place in Jefferson Trade Center

[torn shoal]

i wonder what kelso will say

cause we already know she allied with keener but now we got keener and we know she isnt a traitor even if she is flagged as rogue

like she could just walk back in white house and people wouldnt shot her

[glad spruce]

Manny said it back in the briefing. With everything that happened, she wasn't gonna just walk to the White House.

Kelso wants us to see the light, to see that Faye Lau was never a traitor, was never the enemy as we once thought

[torn shoal]

yeah i know she wont, cause plot

but she just could if she wanted

[glad spruce]

Does it matter?

[torn shoal]

not really

[late void]

We had the whole 'Lau wasn't really a traitor' thing quite a few seasons ago, she left a bunch of recordings for Kelso that were unlocked as we progressed the season.

[torn shoal]

its just another "things get stretched for the plot"

[late void]

Not sure why either we or Kelso would need further convincing

[torn shoal]

im not a fan when writers do that, but again its not the worst thing either

but i guess its also the fact im a big fan of good movies/series, so im used to great writing that used to blow my mind

now writing that is ok/not bad doesnt feel as good for me and it just doesnt hit the same

im too elitist

like the writing in div 2 is really not as bad as we say it is, but we're (at leat i am) used to the best

[glad spruce]

Cuz some players haven't played Season 9/Y5S3 and still stubbornly cling to believing that Faye is a traitor

[torn shoal]

i mean, some people still think isac can overide president decisions

if isac could do that, faye wouldnt be flagged as rogue for killing him

[glad spruce]

IIRC, Faye got flagged as Rogue the moment she infiltrated the Black Tusk.

[torn shoal]

yeah but still, people wouldnt have freaked out when she killed president

• we wouldnt have as objective to capture ellis, but to kill him instead

also it would def show she was infiltrated, and not a real traitor

[mortal flame]

Remember kids, if an AI says someone is suddenly Rogue, we immediately must terminate them…. Div 1 DZ PTSD Intensifies

[torn shoal]

kinda bummed that today's "ai" are incredibly dumb and useless

[mortal flame]

sees the random that you’ve been grabbing legendary loot with suddenly turn Red when the extraction timer reaches zero

[mortal flame]

Do you really want a “ Cortana” AI running the current Politcial war climate?

[torn shoal]

the ai we were sold in fiction are so much better than anything we got now

but we cant really get political in here

[late void]

What we call AI these days is just a large language model, there's no actual intelligence there

[torn shoal]

at least real life politics

[torn shoal]

yeah i know, thats why they so bad af

[mortal flame]

🤣🤣🤣

[torn shoal]

i'd kill for a real ai

(ingame)

[mortal flame]

wait what?

[torn shoal]

dw im not rogue

[mortal flame]

ISAC is literally our battle AI (like Halo Infinite’s Dumb Spartan AI)

[torn shoal]

yeah i meant in real life

not the llm we got that are awfull

[mortal flame]

At this point I believe, the military just needs a helmet heads up display for their Spec Ops guys, and put a chip into the back of their heads and we would be well on our way to becoming Halo Spartans lol

[torn shoal]

bold of you to assume soldiers arent supposed to be cheap and expandable

[mortal flame]

Are you saying Marines are expendable?

[torn shoal]

everyone is expandable for them, thats why they let the first wave die

[mortal flame]

I have ten thousand Vietnam vets that would possibly agree…

[torn shoal]

welcome to the real world

[mortal flame]

If we truly become what we see in the Division Universe.. I don’t know what to do with our countries

We were half way there a few years ago

[torn shoal]

well, thats what happen when you give power to people that want to get rich and powerful and not help people

[mortal flame]

[torn shoal]

also the us has a weird thing with guns and violence

i think there is like 10 gun for 1 person there

like wtf is that even

someday i think about the us if they existed in any fantasy/sf book, and everybody would say "nah, completely unrealistic and unhinged", yet here we are

like, imagine a fantasy setting, but you describe a city in the middle of the desert, and people decided "yeah, good place to create the most unhinged city in the country where everybody would come and lose everything they own" with the most vile/depraved place ever, everybody would say its completely unrealistic and weird, yet vegas exist somehow irl

[mortal flame]

So… you’re not American? What you call weird… is just a normal day in Texas lol

“This is America” as Childish Gambino says lol

[torn shoal]

yeah, but like, the rest of the world is looking at you weird

and usually with some fear cause you guys kinda fk up every other country you dont like xd

also you're about to start ww3 on a whim

so, you know, not really peace and quiet vibe we try to have

[mortal flame]

Now now… that’s our Speciality

[torn shoal]

Chidi: Okay, but that's worse. I mean, you… you do get how that's worse? Right?

[glad spruce]

Nothing ever happens.

[mortal flame]

we civilians are quite oblivious to the machinations in Washington

[late void]

Probably a good idea to keep real life politics out of this server, nothing good ever comes of such discussions.

[torn shoal]

i wish real life politics also stayed out of our lives :(

[sick lantern]

everything is political

[torn shoal]

sadly

[glad spruce]

Descent comms 19-24 transcripted.

[wicked gorge]

Japanese Admiral during WWII said you cannot invade mainland United States, there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass

[torn shoal]

yeah but thats not the pb, almost none of them know how to use a gun effectively, hence why there is so many accident gun related

other countries have guns, its not the same as the us

like canada

[wicked gorge]

You be surprised how much US citizens demonstrate firearm safety

[torn shoal]

their death record numbers seem to say another story

[wicked gorge]

There’s still gonna be idiots who don’t display proper gun safety, thats just everywhere

[glad spruce]

I think it's best to not discuss firearms applications in real life going forward

[tepid ibex]

pshhh you act like it’d be controversial or something 👀

Schaeffer outta wake his ass up

[glad spruce]

10 dollars says he'll wake up by the end of this season

Good thing we're almost 8 weeks left to the Climax mission

[tepid ibex]

I feel like by the time he wakes up, almost everything he tells us is gonna be old news

[late void]

he'll have the key for the secret BT bunker mentioned by Birdie

[torn shoal]

it would be surprising his access hasnt been revoked

especially knowing they listen to all our coms, they know he is still alive

[jaunty olive]

They need to add a stealth aspect to the next game

[sick lantern]

stealth and RPGs don’t mix

[jaunty olive]

It will how i explain it

[torn shoal]

they heavily toned down stealth cause it was broken beyond measure

in the first game there was a takedown mechanic that allowed us to kill an enemy with no sound, but it was scrapped cause you could just never fight anyone

[jaunty olive]

What if they had a gearset that basically acted as a "sneaking suit" when paired with any factions clothing and it granted you the ability walk amongst them and not trigger their aggro also you had tech that you could attach to their weak points while walking amongst them to sabotage their weak points or even heavies armor. They could finally add an ammo limit to the enemies and the gearset would allow you to sabotage or steal their ammo and lastly you would have access to a decoy drone that when dropped in a crowd and activated could cause crossfire/friendly fire deaths

[torn shoal]

this would be completely op and broken

[glad spruce]

Wait, really?

[torn shoal]

yeah there was some clip of an agent doing a takedown in one of the first cleaner mission, like in alpha or something

[glad spruce]

Huh

[torn shoal]

it was years ago, i dont remember everything

[glad spruce]

Interesting

[tepid ibex]

they dropped that and just gave it to Wildlands lol

[sudden mortar]

I guess you meant heartland

[tepid ibex]

no

[sudden mortar]

why compare with Wildlands then? They are not even the same developer.

[tepid ibex]

maybe because i want to ANNA!

[silent bay]

Guys can someone help?
I've played d2 fir a while but never incursion, I've just tried it but my weapons done no damage. Do I get weapons in the incursion ?

[torn shoal]

not the right channel my dude

[jaunty olive]

@torn shoal it's still an rpg so it wouldn't be insta kill but it would be able to do considerable amounts of damage and of course subject to scalable upgrades! Maybe the damage can be slightly less than that of a concussion grenade for explosive traps and whatever damage the npcs would do to you based on world difficulty would dictate what damage they do to themselves with friendly fire

[mortal flame]

Basically just tell Ubisoft to make Splinter Cell: The Return of the Lone Survivor

[torn shoal]

If you dont oneshot in melee, you get oneshot back cause npc will melee you back so there is no point in doing that except losing
Also if you want oneshot melee you already got the exotics shotgun and it's bad af

[tulip patio]

maybe it's just me but these recordings seem kinda filler filler so far

2 recordings this season and it's mostly inane stuff I don't see why I care about, like relationships, I am here for the societal collapse plot not this

[glad spruce]

Societal collapse is over. We're in war territory

Also, those two recordings helps us understand why Bridgette Douglas had the hots for Faye Lau and why she was perfect for the mission

[torn shoal]

and thats why anna ask why they fridge the lesbians

[mortal flame]

Mmkay… but we need more Div 3 updates

[mortal flame]

The Xers will feed it to the not woke community

Riots in the streets

Oh wait. We’ve had that

[torn shoal]

wtf is xers ?

do you mean tiwtter ?

[tepid ibex]

No, tweeters

[glad spruce]

I think we're drifting off the topic

[tulip patio]

I mean, I guess but it's kinda something I don't care about, we kinda know what Faye tried to do, and the relationship, I want something to lead into the DLC maybe, this just feels like really really dragging it on

[glad spruce]

Maybe. But I won't say more due to spoilers, there's one comm that piqued my interest when I was playing the PTS

[tulip patio]

you mean descent or from this season?

[glad spruce]

From this season

[tulip patio]

oh, maybe it will be interesting but so far this seems quite predominantly filler

third is what now, Keener talking about what color pants he prefers

[glad spruce]

Pfft. I guess we'll see this Tuesday

[tulip patio]

we're going to see what an angel keener is, after he used a virus attack on a JTF HQ in NY, because of course why not

we don't have Black Tusk around killing people, it's those 10 leftover JTF members with a total of 3 pistols between em that were the target

[tepid ibex]

exactlyyy, we aint forgot the old BOO getting destroyed

[torn shoal]

yeah but it doesnt fit the story tbh

the whole wony manhunt dlc is really weird

keener was never a bloodthirsty guy that wanted to kill for the sake of killing

he wanted power, not chaos

[glad spruce]

What if the whole thing in WONY was to throw us, the Hunters, and Black Tusk off his trail

Given what we've known over the past seasons, us dealing with Keener's Cell aside from Theo were a distraction to allow Faye Lau to infiltrate the Black Tusk

But then again, this is the channel where we endlessly argued whether Faye Lau is a traitor

[torn shoal]

thats a lot of jtf and civilians killings to trump them

[tulip patio]

I get the implications we could get from how story changed now but, to me it looks like he was definitely meant to be evil before

mostly because what's the purpose of killing JTF troops? not once, but twice

well 3 times if you count that school too I guess

[tulip patio]

yes, to be fair he was mostly just pragmatic rather than bloodthirsty before

but he was definitely not a good guy either

[torn shoal]

he was not evil, just morally grey

he always saved civilians, even while rogue

[tulip patio]

he saved some but also indirectly, through his vengeance, likely led to more dying

he gutted the second wave's leadership, I bet we could have done much more with a better structure in place

[torn shoal]

yeah but he was betrayed by the jtf and the division

so him stopping the division and relying on rogues make sense

[tulip patio]

well yes, I understand that aspect, but weakening JTF means factions like cleaners and rikers had more freedom to do their deeds

I get he was abandoned but he wasn't a force for good

[torn shoal]

if the jtf abandons people and agents, its not like they were saving people

[tulip patio]

but not like they're killing them either

while less JTF patrolling around means easier time for rioters, cleaners, rikers

[torn shoal]

thats why they associated with lmb

they had a stronger army and coverage

[tulip patio]

but did they use the coverag?

they kept peace I assume in their corner of NY sure, but the rest of the areas we see how it is

they just wanted control for their own power imo

think there's even recordings that imply LMB are executing people

[torn shoal]

well yes

[sick lantern]

imply? outright shown multiple times you mean

[torn shoal]

can always say its rioters

[sick lantern]

they’ll shoot people in the streets

[tulip patio]

so again they just built a little kingdom for themselves, didn't really help bring peace

oh even worse, been a while since I played

[sick lantern]

“better to shoot someone innocent than to let someone guilty get away” bliss says

literally he said that

[torn shoal]

you cant be result oriented

when dz collapsed, agents were marked rogue they had to make a choice

either fight and die, or join a faction

[tulip patio]

well yes I totally get they were left behind

[torn shoal]

then you can understand lmb make sense

[sick lantern]

the LMB brought order but were self serving first and foremost
Keener ditched them the second they became weak and losing, he didn’t care about ideology

[tulip patio]

but at the same time Keener's actions, even if he saved some people, did likely kill more

[torn shoal]

everyone did something that killed people

[tulip patio]

indirectly like I said

[torn shoal]

jtf abandonned people

[tulip patio]

well second wave did well and he did his best to be against us

[sick lantern]

why not allow the second wave from the osprey the opportunity to join him?

[torn shoal]

2nd wave did killed innocents too

[tulip patio]

yeah he gutted leadership and made our job harder

[torn shoal]

and ultimately failed

[torn shoal]

you cant blame keener for 2nd wave failing and still blame him for 1st wave being abandonned

you have to make it fair

[tulip patio]

my point is he could've just went about his business saving people his own way

instead he did things that made it harder for people to survive

[sick lantern]

exactly

[torn shoal]

he did

he went his own way

cause division and jtf couldnt be trusted

[tulip patio]

imagine instead of just us and Faye at first, we had the commander and more of the agents in the helicopter

[sick lantern]

and killed people who didn’t join him

if he wanted to help he could’ve became rogue batman

idk

[torn shoal]

man, stop blaming keener for jtf and division failings

[tulip patio]

I am blaming him for what he did after JTF failed

[sick lantern]

he literally blew up tens of agents

[torn shoal]

thats what im saying

[sick lantern]

who didn’t know his name or anything about the dark zone

[torn shoal]

you're leaving out critical parts of why he does things

[tulip patio]

did the second wave have a hand in him getting abandoned? no, why attack them?

[sick lantern]

who hadnt even touched the ground in nyc

[torn shoal]

yes they did : they are division

[tulip patio]

he can go after some local bigshots JTF who called the retreat I'd get that

but he went after people trying to actually help

[torn shoal]

manhattan is confined, you cant leave

its like saying in war people shouldnt kill other soldiers cause they didnt ask to be there

[tulip patio]

the commander in the helicopter had nothing to do with DZ events

[torn shoal]

thats just not how it works

[sick lantern]

he literally escaped the quarantine in manhattan…

[torn shoal]

you have to fight soldiers to get to the top

[tulip patio]

well if it works by those rules I can just go put a bullet in his head right now lol

cause he did kill our guys

[torn shoal]

people tried to do that, and died

[torn shoal]

and we killed his

[glad spruce]

Does it matter at this point? We're working with him, whether we like it or not.

[torn shoal]

its not like he is evil and we are saints

[tulip patio]

he is bad

maybe not as bad as BT

but still bad

[torn shoal]

you're acting as if division and jtf didnt abandon millions to die

[tulip patio]

the top being where, how did killing second wave help?

[torn shoal]

and made the virus worse

[torn shoal]

how does abandonning them help ?

you cant pick and chose what you want from the story

motivations dont exist in the void

[tulip patio]

that's not the question, it wasn't the second wave's choice to abandon him, why attack second wave?

[torn shoal]

thats exactly the question

[tulip patio]

it's not

[torn shoal]

here is an example

[tulip patio]

by your logic, if some sanitation workers became cleaners, means now ALL sanitation workers need to die or something

just cause some division command or JTF were bad, doesn't mean all are bad

[torn shoal]

you bully a kid forever in school, but then you meet him outside and he punches you in the face, and you're like "he is choosing to be violent for no reason when we could just be friends"

[tulip patio]

no cause I didn't bully him

[torn shoal]

you did

[tulip patio]

he was bullied by others and he chose to take his anger on me

[torn shoal]

you are the division

you're not some random

[tulip patio]

I don't like that he was bullied but it's not me who did it

[tulip patio]

this is your logic

[torn shoal]

its not "my" logic

thats how it works

[sick lantern]

he literally picked and chose from the first wave, join me or die, why does the second wave not get the same luxury

[tulip patio]

for people who have just blind rage sure that's how it works

[torn shoal]

if you're an institution or a gov, you represent your gov and vice versa

[tulip patio]

if he was more reasonable he could realize while there's bad people in Division and JTF, not all are bad

[torn shoal]

more reasonable ?

after you send him to die ?

bruh

[sick lantern]

why did some agents get a chance and some not

[tulip patio]

do you see our agent on the radio telling JTF "yo pull out and let that chump die in DZ"

[sick lantern]

it’s hypocritical to say he blames the whole div, whilst he also recruits other agents

he kills agents who weren’t even in nyc at the time

[torn shoal]

man, you're igoring the argument again

you're division, what the division does, you do, and vice versa

[tulip patio]

no

[torn shoal]

yes

[tulip patio]

that's generalization

again, if some sanitation workers became Cleaners, means all sanitation workers are bad?

[torn shoal]

thats why paul rhodes forbid every agent in haven in wony at the start

[plain junco]

it was jtf who abandoned the division agents - mostly the first wave

[sick lantern]

that’s like, if there was a coup in oregon and you disarm the military in florida

[torn shoal]

jtf was under division command

[sick lantern]

factually incorrect

[torn shoal]

the 2 arent related ?

unlike division agent and shd command

[sick lantern]

the jtf gave the order to pull out

[plain junco]

--there's legit comms to confirm it was jtf who gave the order

[tulip patio]

they are related, Cleaners used to be sanitation workers

[torn shoal]

yes, under shd command

[plain junco]

no

[torn shoal]

no, joe ferro was

[tulip patio]

JTF are JTF, SHD is SHD

[torn shoal]

and i insist on WAS

or are you saying rogues are shd now

[plain junco]

they didn't give the command - jtf did the command - shd had nothing to do with it where are you getting that info from??

[tulip patio]

there's 0 to indicate SHD ordered the retreat

[torn shoal]

i didnt say shd give the order, im saying jtf is under shd control, if they fk up, it goes back to shd too

[sick lantern]

the JTF was never under SHD control

[tulip patio]

SHD aren't controlling JTF, we are working alongside

[torn shoal]

if a soldier kill someone innnocent, the command take responsibility

thats how it work in law

[plain junco]

no - no

[tulip patio]

we have the authority to maybe command locally but they're not part of our structure

[plain junco]

i think im just going to smile and nod

[torn shoal]

i didnt say they were the same structure

[tulip patio]

over the course of Div 1's story, JTF runs itself while agents help and collaborate with them

[plain junco]

-smiles and nods-

[tulip patio]

but at the end of the day, JTF does what its own command decides, not ours

maybe we can have some influence locally, but we're not their bosses

[torn shoal]

oh yeah, remember when jtf said they leave manhattan and we said no and they stayed ?

very their own decision

[tulip patio]

exactly, they did waht they wanted

not what we wanted

[torn shoal]

no, they wanted to leave

and they stayed, cause we told them to

[sick lantern]

because we un-screwed the screwed up situation, not because we forced them

[tulip patio]

it wasn't SHD command choice, it was JTF choice

[sick lantern]

“if he’s not back by tomorrow we’re pulling out” and we got him (benitez) back

[torn shoal]

jtf choice was to leave

[sick lantern]

we gave them the tactical option by way of saving their sorry arses (their words not mine)

[tulip patio]

like webkinz said we fixed the situation so they deemed it better to stay, if we did nothing and they decided to leave, they could have left

[torn shoal]

man, agents arent some bureacrats, ofc they help on the ground

we are the main protagonist

[plain junco]

doesn't ngn talk about the first wave/jtf and all things lore? and there's also a wiki that talks about this? just read

reading is fundamental

[torn shoal]

yeah but it doesnt matter here, we disagree on something else

[tulip patio]

show me where it says the Second Wave commander is responsible for DZ retreat?

[torn shoal]

see, you're doing it again

ignoring the whole "its the division, not just one guy"

its the gov, not just one guy

[plain junco]

which could be corrected if yknow - read to get the information

[sick lantern]

the division doesn’t have a centralised command structure

[torn shoal]

but thats not how it works since its not an info

[tulip patio]

tell me what Keener did then to help that's more than what Second Wave did?

[torn shoal]

well since 2nd wave changed things from bad to worse

[tulip patio]

did he fight back Rioters? no

[torn shoal]

im pretty sure he couldnt do worse

[sick lantern]

no one in the second wave was involved in what went down in the dark zone, fact
for all Keener knew half of them would’ve gone rogue with him, they didn’t represent the interests of some shady command, there was no command and no interest

[torn shoal]

yes he did

[tulip patio]

did he fight cleaners? no, riker? no

[torn shoal]

yes he did, all of that

[tulip patio]

some, but he took out nothing significant

we killed Ferro, we stopped many of their operations

[torn shoal]

according to who ?

[tulip patio]

not Keener

[sick lantern]

by wiping out swathes of the threats to the city?? researching a cure?

[torn shoal]

like, how do you know he did nothing

[plain junco]

😀

[tulip patio]

I am saying he did something, sure he helped some civillians around city, that's in the story

but overall he did a lot less than Second Wave

[torn shoal]

for all you know, he might be the reason the pandemic stayed in manhattan for so long

and didnt spread before a while

[tulip patio]

you can say what you want but you see Cleaners, Rioters, Rikers, LMB kill civillians, not JTF right now

[tulip patio]

speculation though

[torn shoal]

yeah, same for you

also btw : rioters are civilians

[tulip patio]

not speculating anything, we did kneecap Cleaners and Rikers

same for LMB

[torn shoal]

not talking about that

[tulip patio]

what we did was more significant

[torn shoal]

not really

look div 2 state of the world

[tulip patio]

you can save 10 civillians from being burnt by Cleaners and you did a great deed

[torn shoal]

we were basically useless

[tulip patio]

or you can neutralize the Cleaners leadership and save like 100

won't save everyone, but save more

[torn shoal]

what did that got you ? oh right cleaners are worse than ever now

they even invaded dc for a while

[tulip patio]

better to let them do what they want?

[torn shoal]

then tell me

whats the difference between you fighting cleaners and losing, and keenrs fighting cleaners and losing ?

[tulip patio]

we didn't save everyone, but we saved more

[torn shoal]

how do you know you saved more

you dont know how many you saved, you dont know how many he saved

and you lost in the end killing billions of people

including thoses you saved

[tulip patio]

like I said the example, you can save people from Cleaners around the city, but if you sabotage Cleaners enough so they're less effective, you save even more

[torn shoal]

yeah, and you failed at that

billions are dead, cleaners are stronger than ever

[tulip patio]

end result is more people saved

[torn shoal]

end result is billions died cause you failed

stop patting yourself in the back cause you saved 3 randoms while the planet is dying

[tulip patio]

Second Wave did what they could with what the yhad

[sick lantern]

this is literally what Keener does

[torn shoal]

so did the first wave

so did keener

[sick lantern]

“he saved a family one time”

[tulip patio]

Keener saved some people, First Wave saved some people, but we brought more stability overall

[torn shoal]

what stability ? the world is dying

there is more chaos than ever

[tulip patio]

you save what remains

[torn shoal]

you didnt tho

[tulip patio]

we did

[torn shoal]

you lost almost everything that remains

[tulip patio]

there's still people in NY

how did Keener help with that? give me solid info, what did he do more than us?

[torn shoal]

man, how can you say you won, when billions died cause you failed at stopping the virus

at least keener doesnt pretend he did

[tulip patio]

a win isn't always a total victory

a win is sometimes just best you can do

[torn shoal]

its a total loss man

on every aspect

[tulip patio]

it's not

as long as there are innocents to protect there's a reason to fight

as long as settlements are around, it's a win

[torn shoal]

you lost so much, you also lost the trust of the people and they dont want to see agents around

[tulip patio]

because of people like Keener?

[torn shoal]

bruh, at least with keener the society and the planet wasnt dying

after you came, billions died

[tulip patio]

what did he do to save the planet?

what did he do to save society?

[torn shoal]

he didnt let the virus out at least

[tulip patio]

he remade the virus you know?

[torn shoal]

you did

[sick lantern]

it factually isn’t, Jessica Kandel with the help of the second wave researched the BSAV. Keener wanted to kill more people with more viruses
regardless of whatever moral absolutism you’re spouting, the second wave were trying to do morally good acts

[sick lantern]

he literally made eclipse

[tulip patio]

Second Wave didn't let the virus out either, where do you get that?

Keener made eclipse too

[torn shoal]

from the state of the world in the div 2 game ?

have you seen the world after 2nd wave ?

[tulip patio]

so what SHD let it out? where do you get that? are you playing the same game?

[tulip patio]

we literally made it better even if we didn't entirely save it

[torn shoal]

are you saying the virus was contained by shd ? and never got out of manhattan ?

cause div 2 says otherwise

[tulip patio]

it got out, but who went around forcing a scientist to make it even worse?

oh right Keener

[torn shoal]

keener didnt spread the virus

[tulip patio]

?

Eclipse attacks?

[torn shoal]

he created eclipse, long AFTER the world crimbled

not before

the first eclipse attack was in wony

[tulip patio]

and it got to DC too

[torn shoal]

so, months AFTER the world died

not before

stop pinning the end of the world on keener when its 2nd wave that failed

[tulip patio]

Second Wave didn't spread it either

[torn shoal]

2nd wave failed to contain it

[tulip patio]

if you want to talk about fail, First Wave did even worse

did they contain it?

[torn shoal]

yes ? it was contained when 2nd wave came

[tulip patio]

no

[torn shoal]

it litterally was, thats why 2nd wave was in ny, to stop the spread of the virus out of manhattan

[tulip patio]

lmao where was it contained? it just lost effectiveness because people either built immunity or were immune

[tulip patio]

that's not true

[torn shoal]

bruh

[torn shoal]

loss effectiveness ? before it killed billions of people ?

[tulip patio]

it started worst in Manhattan because it was spread during Black Friday, but by the time it started hard, the virus spred all over too

it was out of Manhattan before Second Wave got there

[torn shoal]

how can you say the virus was weak when after 2nd wave failed, it killed the whole wolrd

[torn shoal]

source ?

[tulip patio]

you aren't play the same game as me lmao

[torn shoal]

i mean i played 2nd wave, and virus spread

while you're saying it doesnt

meanwhile in the end, it did spread cause div 2 happenned

[tulip patio]

take wiki for example

look at "The Outbreak" the virus is already in DC before First Wave is even there

there I mean in NY

[sick lantern]

rick valassi will mention how it’s in other cities across the US

[tulip patio]

yeah it spread before any big quarantine

just like all major diseases

there's talks of the virus reaching DC like I said before First Wave is even called

then all those events take place, then Second Wave arrives

[torn shoal]

you need to be more specific

[tulip patio]

it was definitely not contained and Second Wave had nothing to do with spreading it around

https://thedivision.fandom.com/wiki/The_Outbreak read around here

[torn shoal]

you're just giving me the page i already got

there is like 23 paragraphs

[tulip patio]

First wave is called around December 18-20

December 11-14 WHO already declares pandemic

and it already reached DC in that time period

[tulip patio]

or to be more precise, Directive 51 is activated

but by the time that happens, multiple places are affected, not just NY

[torn shoal]

so, it spread even before 1st wave then ?

[tulip patio]

yes

Second Wave didn't have anything to do with it spreading

by the time Division 1 events take place, the rest of the world has cases, maybe hasn't collapsed entirely yet

[torn shoal]

so 2nd just didnt do anything at all

[tulip patio]

but it's starting

[torn shoal]

beside killing stuff

[tulip patio]

sometimes best you can do is small victories

[torn shoal]

what victory tho

[tulip patio]

certainly more than what Keener did

[torn shoal]

like cleaners and rikers still exist stronger than ever

[tulip patio]

the post office becomes refuge for many people

they're not stronger than ever?

they're still a threat

but not stronger than ever

[torn shoal]

they were only in ny before, now they spread in the country

rikers too

[sick lantern]

to one other city, due to the acts of rogue agents

[torn shoal]

also now agents are seen as rogue in ny

[tulip patio]

they're mostly separate groups aided by rogues

like Keener helped em get to DC

[glad spruce]

Are you guys finished? I've transcripted Descent comms 25-30.

[torn shoal]

yeah but rogues didnt appear out of thin air, they exist cause shd and jtf faillings

[tulip patio]

sure they failed but that doesn't mean we should throw a fit and burn it all

[torn shoal]

i mean we just talking, even if its been a while

[torn shoal]

at some point, maybe we should

[tulip patio]

well if society needs that I'd start with the guy who had a hand in making Eclipse

[torn shoal]

you cant fail at everything while the world is dying and expect people to support you

[tulip patio]

DC supports us

Theater, Campus and Castle are on our side

[glad spruce]

Meanwhile, some dude in the wiki changes the years in 2015/2016 to 2020/2021 with no evidence to back it up.

[torn shoal]

thats true, but it might change, as ny changed

[tulip patio]

maybe but it's definitely better that what it was

[torn shoal]

idk man, shd failed so hard on so many lvls, it should be replaced, and thats not even taking into account how undemocratic and close to nono words i cant say it is

you cant have as many agents with good intentions as you want, it cant change the world for good if the command and the rules arent good

[tulip patio]

again though, I understand Keener's situation, it's not fair to say he deserved getting abandoned yeah

but what's the point of who he killed?

[torn shoal]

well, if you put yourself in his shoes, you understand shd is a threat, same as jtf

[tulip patio]

I get if he had the names of higher-ups who actually called the retreat from the DZ, going after em, I wouldn't blame him that much

but why make it worse for the part of the JTF actually trying to help?

[torn shoal]

well, jtf didnt just obey orders, they left them to die

like it doesnt matter if you do bad stuff, saying "i obey orders" isnt a good defense

[glad spruce]

Can it be Tuesday already? I wanna discuss about the third comm when its available

[tulip patio]

ok but imagine you are a soldier in JTF, higher up tells you pull out, you pull out or get left behind, then you try your best to help people, patrol around, fight the cleaners

what's the point of making it worse for that guy?

[torn shoal]

you'll have your time to shine dw

again, you're thinking about indivuduals, when you should be thinking about the entity

[tulip patio]

the blame lies in the chain of command though

[torn shoal]

like rioters didnt want to hurt people, they want to survive

but you kill them cause as a whole, they create too many pb

[tulip patio]

some sure, others were quite psychotic

[torn shoal]

yeah, but you still kill them all

you dont have time to ask them separatly

they are rioters : they get the rioter treatment

[sick lantern]

you literally don’t do that
there’s an echo in game of division agents sparing rioters

[torn shoal]

(which is a crime btw but thats another thing)

[tulip patio]

we see them mug civillians, kill civillians, abdct people

we fight those

[torn shoal]

mugging a civilian doesnt warrant a bullet in the head

[tulip patio]

we don't see a guy trying to break into a pharamacy and kill him, we kill the ones who attack innocents

[torn shoal]

actually

[sick lantern]

ah lyfe does have me blocked again i suppose that makes sense

[torn shoal]

in the tutorial, we kill people who stole meds and try to resell them

[sick lantern]

can’t have plot facts when there’s misinformation and headcanon to spread

[torn shoal]

so yeah, we do kill people that just break into pharmacy

[tulip patio]

they're extorting

[torn shoal]

also if we do that we get marked as rogue, and everyone knows, being rogue = kill on sight

breaking into pharmacy i mean

[tulip patio]

idk, in any case, guess we disagree

my point is Keener's build kinda sucks

[torn shoal]

build ?

[tulip patio]

crying cause "waah waah a bunch rioters shooting at me"

[torn shoal]

he cried cause his team got slaughtered

[tulip patio]

he's the guy that calls for backup in a Normal mission then cries

[torn shoal]

what are you talking about ?

[tulip patio]

Keener's incompetence

[torn shoal]

when did he cried for help ?

[tulip patio]

I mean what he is doing is just a fit and a tantrum

[torn shoal]

im pretty sure seeing all your team and friends die cause jtf and shd abandonned you cant be considered as throwing a fit or a tantrum

[tulip patio]

maybe they were just all incompetent then

[torn shoal]

thats a lot of assumption for a guy that evaded everyone and stayed alive in the apocalypse

[tulip patio]

I will give him that he is good at running, hiding and talking smack on comms

rather than actually doing something

[torn shoal]

he is also good at killing his enemies

seeing his kill record

including tons of agents

[tulip patio]

we killed like two of his cells

no wait, 3 technically

[torn shoal]

which ones ?

oh you meant cells not team

[tulip patio]

NY crew, then Cleaners sent to DC and the Outcats too

[torn shoal]

but it doesnt really matter tho, he still got his rogue network

killing 4 agents in a cell isnt a big blow

[tulip patio]

I mean he's back to us tail between his legs

[torn shoal]

not really, he asked to join us

theo too

but we still missing way too much info

until we get to kelso and she tell us everything, we can only speculate

[fringe gale]

idk what Kelso can tell us what we dont already know

[torn shoal]

prob bt weaknesses

[glad spruce]

Viper ||probably, hopefully alive||

[torn shoal]

i def hope not, otherwise we def gonna have the whole team back

[glad spruce]

I'm still not convinced ||she's dead||

Tell you what, if I'm right and you're wrong, you'll be wearing the clown emoji in your name

And vice versa, I'll wear the clown emoji in my name.

Deal?

[torn shoal]

i already made a deal like that i think ?

u too ?

[glad spruce]

Probably, but maybe I forgot

[torn shoal]

and riven wasnt on board

lemme check

[glad spruce]

Yeah, but I haven't seen Rivens in a while

[torn shoal]

#division-universe message

[glad spruce]

Yeah, that doesn't sound like Rivens was against it. Unless I'm reading it wrong

[torn shoal]

no, i mean she was against changing her name

not ours

[glad spruce]

Right

I guess we'll see in the weeks ahead

[torn shoal]

we sure will

[mortal flame]

Why are we now realizing Keener was a bad guy… but not necessarily a “bad guy?”

[gaunt ice]

if Keener clutched with a totem of undying i dont see why Viper or whoever that was cant

the second they revived Keener and Theo all bets are off, Viper probably clutched with a vest or dropped a reviver hive

[mortal flame]

Thinking our enemies would be doing exactly what we have been doing for years in the DZs lol

“Oh no, they took our gold loot and are using our extraction…” respawns, turns on Survivor ult, and wipes enemy team and gets back loot and more

[tepid ibex]

i can feel them sighing

[mortal flame]

If only Ubisoft would just look at the diligent Lore Masters in this channel here. And hear our cries for epicness and…..

“Somehow, Faye Lau returned”

[plain junco]

i would honestly let out the loudest cackle if that were to happen

[torn shoal]

Wrong channel

[glad spruce]

Tomorrow's the 3rd Manhunt.

And today is me transcripting Descent comms 31-36

[mortal flame]

We have more Agents to unRogue???

[glad spruce]

No. Today we have more secret history from Ortiz Robotics to preserve it to the catalog 😛

[ashen jungle]

If we're taking requests, I vote for more meta jokes

[mortal flame]

Like They got Alex?

[ashen jungle]

No, I mean good ones.

[tepid ibex]

They got Dylan!

[glad spruce]

Descent comms 31-36 trancripted

[winged reef]

Random question, what happened if a division agent was arrested before the outbreak? Like would they get help from the government or something to plead their case if it wasn’t a serious offense. I imagine with how much time and money they put into training and arming these agents they wouldn’t want them in jail for something minor.

[glad spruce]

I have no idea cuz the lore didn't delve into that. But I'd imagine they'd be bailed out by the federal government even before the outbreak since they get special privileges for being an agent

Or maybe have their agent status revoked for getting arrested in the first place

[winged reef]

Would be cool if they explored the lives of agents before the outbreak a little more in future books/games, I know they covered a bit of the recruitment and training in hearts on fire and the operation crossroads series. Tho I haven’t read any of the other books so idk if they cover it further in them.

[sick lantern]

there’s some flashbacks in Hunted

[winged reef]

Yeah that one was good, wish there were more division books planned by that author

[glad spruce]

We'll probably get more novels from different authors. But I'll sure miss Thomas Parrott

[winged reef]

Fr I really enjoyed his writing style

[mortal flame]

Just the trilogy he was doing.. plus the first one that was a “guide” to surviving a city apocalyptic event. Pretty full of real life useful things to do in real life if you live in a city like New York

[mortal flame]

all is quiet on the East front… Quick before the others awake

[rich lark]

So really confused about the vague timeline of events some have it be 2015 when Dollar flu started others 2020 and one has it as 2018

[mortal flame]

Have ya read the official Ubisoft Division books?

[rich lark]

Some not all

[mortal flame]

though honestly, it’s going to be vague because it technically happened IRL already, and most people want to forget it ever happened

*most

[rich lark]

I know in the dark horse book the world of tom clancy the division it states last years outbreak and the book released 2019 so it would be 2018

[mortal flame]

IRL and Division events align quite closely… wouldn’t you agree?

[rich lark]

Yes like concerning close

Especially if the 2020 statement becomes true

[mortal flame]

Oh boy do I have a story for you

no need to post the videos…. But

YouTuber named NGN has the best Recap of Division 1 and 2 lore up to and including everything current and going forward past “heartlands”(RIP). Best source of Lore there is

The man does his research

[sick lantern]

no

[mortal flame]

Now this was the smart answer ^^^ lol

[rich lark]

I'll check him and sources out

[rich lark]

Just like writing stories so timelines are important to me

[mortal flame]

Good. A young Lore Master in the making

🙂

[rich lark]

Should I mention I have like 15 fanfics?

[mortal flame]

Oh…. At least you’re able to write fan Fics cries in the single Halo fan fic friend group collab from 8 years ago that never was finished

[ashen jungle]

@rich lark Sorry, we have a hard rule against fan-fics, we used to be more lenient, but after someone posted a few hundred (yes: hundred) paragraphs, well you can see why.

[rich lark]

Ahh fair thats ok

Lesbian Ai is great btw