td2-build-advice

[smoky latch]

2nd row center for each categorz

[lone violet]

@smoky latch is it better to reach expert 30 then to escal or?

[smoky latch]

I didn't buy many modifiers so I can say that for sure that split is unlocked by default for each category

[smoky latch]

The devs should have made that pre-requisit to play Escalation but it is not necessary, no

[lone violet]

i cant find anyone match making it

[smoky latch]

Dead 💀

[fierce obsidian]

Its not needed to finish amything in the game its just something to ga after

[smoky latch]

Matchmaking takes ages, average waiting time for me is around 15 minutes. You're better off lf players in LFG if you don't have a steady team or clan

And if you have a GE enabled you basically never find anyone

With GE disabled it still takes forever. I usually run out of patience before I find a team

[lone violet]

booo im trying to get a prototype gear setup going ugh

[fierce obsidian]

Silll cant find split utility

[lone violet]

also week 8 is horrible bruh to find a PE by outcast rng is bad

[smoky latch]

I'm not sure if you have to unlock it first (?)

I def. did not buy it

[lament reef]

Is it from a journey?

[fierce obsidian]

Huh? How i dont see it as a reward

[smoky latch]

Fair point but those are the only ones

[fierce obsidian]

I see it lol im so stupid i jad to scroll down i feel so dumb🤣 🤣

[lament reef]

[smoky latch]

Bro

Anyway, glad you found it now 💀 😂

[lone violet]

will proto still drop for me?

[smoky latch]

Sure

Lower tiers = less drops of course

You need to work your way up anyway, tier for tier

[lone violet]

oh that i know i just wanted to ask ahead of time

hopefully the lfg i can find smth

[smoky latch]

Good luck

[stone python]

i have amalgam on all pieces or rolled them yesterday for the first time and rng picked up amalgam on the first roll

Q should i prioritize status effects or paradox for mag refill or echo?

or 2 echo + 2 paradox + 2 amalgam

Sorry thats an old screenshot this is the updated one with all amalgam

[velvet raven]

Are there any viable/optimized full prototype CC/Heal builds ? I know that getting 6 skill tier only takes 4 prototyped pcs and green set pcs will always be godrolled

[smoky latch]

Good stuff, try it out and see how you like it

[stone python]

Rng decided yesterday to roll amalgams on all the first tries lol

i was ok game i see what you want

[smoky latch]

All I get is Amalgam, Quantum and Paradox...

At least on my Hollow Man masks

[stone python]

Q: should i upgrade all the amalgam augments

[smoky latch]

See how you like it. I'd think it comes in handy but I only have it on one piece so I can't really test a full build - also that's for Striker's, the rest of my items is mixed and I won't re-roll them

[stone python]

Amalgam augment fits my build well since im using OD tinkerer + Wicked for status

[smoky latch]

Bleed effect as such is a little useless but in combo with other status effects that also procc quite often I'd imagine it's pretty good

[stone python]

i was wondering whether i need more damage from Echo with this build

I think Devs should rework some of weaker status effects, like bleed damage, it should directly deal damage to any mobs health and bypassing their armor

[vernal wing]

%hp would make bleed cool

[stone python]

Or make bleed effect more effective like Pesti ticks

Can OD builds be viable in high Escalations?

[smoky latch]

Nah

You will need actual damage

[junior lagoon]

OD : Oldage Death Builds

[lone violet]

dang

[dry gate]

Hi, is a High-End Salvo (10% fire rate) better than a Prototype Fox's kneepads? Assuming all other rolled stats stay the same (I lose about 2% weapon damage only swapping to Fox's).

This is for a standard Proto-AR striker setup.

[lone violet]

this good?

[urban latch]

No

[lone violet]

what do i want skill cool down or?

[urban latch]

generally skill damage

[solar sable]

can also do hybrid and go CHD

[subtle bluff]

Equalizer and overdogs is the Standard Striker

[dry gate]

I’m doing more damage with proto striker chest right now since I’m farming t7+ escalations, and I don’t have a proto Equalizer chest yet.

Can you answer my question (in general)?

[subtle bluff]

Content matters when we talk about normal or escalation builds.

Everything outside of +T5 escalation and incursion Striker Chest isn't great due to not being able to stack that high.

[open saddle]

@subtle bluff I really hate this rng proto now I don't even wanna proto my Lexington because I will spend to much re-rolls

[lone violet]

dang

[dry gate]

T7-10 escalations is what this gear is being used for

[subtle bluff]

I'll keep saying it...

Proto Gear/Weapons are not better than a proper build/gear/weapons.

[subtle bluff]

You didn't state that in your question before.

[open saddle]

I have all proper builds just nun of them is expertise 30

[subtle bluff]

+T6 meta is kind of fixed. If you have a bunch of question go to the striker guide.

[subtle bluff]

Same... I only have Hollowman proto otherwise I'm still out doing everyone with bad builds

[open saddle]

@subtle bluff what's the replacement for the hollowman mask I have 2 of them but I can't roll weapon dmg on it

[open saddle]

Does expertise really matter?

[dry gate]

Man I can’t get a straight answer it’s hard because I don’t have like meta maxed everything to get optimal stuff, I’m not even asking for the most min maxed question or setup just asking what is better in general for escalations (the holster or the knee pads)

[subtle bluff]

Striker Guide
https://docs.google.com/document/d/16HdKj8x-LlXJCcVPAWNZWIb0SXcQOmAfAh1cHYYsxwI/edit?usp=sharing

[open saddle]

T6+ meta 4 piece strikers, ceska and hollowman or overdogs

[subtle bluff]

The reason I'm point you to that is because you mentioned a lot of things that isn't that great in the end of your content.

[subtle bluff]

@dry gate If you need the reason why this is the meta go to the guide it explains. Unless you want me to copy and paste and repeat myself.

sorry if that sounds rude.. I'm just blunt.

[open saddle]

Ceska bagpack with vigilance would be better

[subtle bluff]

Yes and no.

That's more of higher level of play if you're wanting to be able to also hotswap.

[open saddle]

Explain so I could give proper info

[subtle bluff]

While yes it does more than Chest and BP it does A LOT less when it's down.

[lone violet]

i cant change prototype perks right?

[open saddle]

Like toasty explain right right understood.........yea I not going through all that

[subtle bluff]

The reason Ceska BP is thrown was mainly for duo

[open saddle]

Ok got u

[subtle bluff]

If you're wanting to be the carry guy and be able to save a team you run that.

[open saddle]

I always wanna be able to carry if I need to but I need to practice more

[dry gate]

@subtle bluff thanks

[subtle bluff]

it's also a lot of knowledge and gameplay escalation is.

That's most of the reason I can out do most players without proto gear.

[lone violet]

should i bother rerolling for skill dmg or heal on skill or?

[subtle bluff]

I wouldn't till you know what you want.

[lone violet]

and ngl doing escal is scary but also fun at the same time

[subtle bluff]

Just Farm proto with Skill and CHC pieces

It's a easier than master/leggo

just the loot is really RNG.

[lone violet]

i can only think of anom or synth

[subtle bluff]

I would stop thinking about it to so much

[subtle bluff]

I just realized that's a pika doing that. LOL

[open saddle]

@subtle bluff does expertise matter? Can't remember if you answered this

[subtle bluff]

To a degree.. no but then for proto the correct thing like Hollowman yes.

I will say not have a exp 30 LMG is really hurting my DPS in overall.

[strong cave]

In normal content, expertise is just cherry on top of the icing cake. In retal, at about T6, it's kind of a must

[open saddle]

Interesting I proto my lmg last night and for nothing I not getting the roll I want which really sucks

[subtle bluff]

wouldn't say a must but it does move the bar.

[lone violet]

is there a farm to max these weapons quick or no?

[exotic talon]

which brands had explosive damage boosts

[velvet raven]

Are there any full red builds that can do better DPS for T10 escalation or legendary than Striker ?

[exotic talon]

no

[halcyon crater]

for escalation no

[stone python]

Striker is the way

[halcyon crater]

legendary has many viable builds

[stone python]

Escal diffi > Legendary?

[halcyon crater]

if you protod your own godroll it's always better than non proto in that case so no need to be sad about it

[velvet raven]

I feel like endgame is called Tom Clancy's : The Striker 2

[halcyon crater]

legendary are harder cause of different ai on enemies, escal has higher scaling so you need better dps

[lone violet]

@subtle bluff

[open saddle]

I farm escalation for proto cores I could careless about the gear unless it drops god roll

[subtle bluff]

idk what you mean by this...

[subtle bluff]

Escalation, raids and incursion has it's own meta.
Leggo/master and everything else there's a lot of different stuff.

[lone violet]

like the materials to donate towards lvls like i wanna donate junk to max out a weapon to 30 and ect the printer fil i know is for the expert overall

[hybrid leaf]

What were the glove people suggested using hotswap btsu and birdies?

[subtle bluff]

better mixed of DPS. Burst and Sustain.

[subtle bluff]

Hana u and Alp. It doesn't really matter in the end.

[subtle bluff]

uh? like farming mats?

[lone violet]

yeah

[subtle bluff]

I'll be blunt.. .I'm a build guy... That kind of question is #ask-td2-community thing.. But also there should be an answer for that in the starter guide

[livid sorrel]

hit up countdown and retals, mark as junk, and donate to expertise. that should get you most of the way there

save filament for stuff you can't get like raid exos, seasonal nameds, and skills you're not using

[ocean wyvern]

For HHF, which shotguns are preferred and with brazen or pummel?

[livid sorrel]

m870

[strong cave]

True. I say at that rate just run it anyways

[shut kindle]

What's the best possible t10 build? Mk46 frenzy? With Lexington backup? With striker chest and bp, salvo and overdogs?

[halcyon crater]

4 pcs striker + hollow man + overdogs + mk46 frenzy with whatever backup you want

[magic pilot]

Ravenous

[halcyon crater]

yeah Rav is good, some use Scorpio, Lexington with ranger to take out stragglers

usually swap to whatever you need at the time

[magic pilot]

Ravenous is really good to counter the high HP chungas which is what leads most groups to wipe

[civic flicker]

If I go birdie's + future initiative for a healer build, what's the best sixth item to run?

[shut kindle]

Alps

[magic pilot]

Empathic chest imo

[halcyon crater]

hana u or alp gloves so you can swap to btsu

[grand swan]

Does the prototype gear make soloing Legendary and Master mission, a lil easier?

[magic pilot]

Yes

[shut kindle]

It makes it too easy tbh, kinda trivialises it

[civic flicker]

Alp chest or gloves? :p assuming I'm lazy to switch to BTSU and want to stay on birdie's

[magic pilot]

Well if you run empathic it would be chest

[civic flicker]

OK, thank you! I will farm for one :) do you find it more useful than FI chest?

[open saddle]

What's the replacement for the hollowman mask

[halcyon crater]

Striker guide has a section on it: https://docs.google.com/document/d/16HdKj8x-LlXJCcVPAWNZWIb0SXcQOmAfAh1cHYYsxwI/edit?tab=t.0

[strong cave]

It would have more uptime than future chest

[subtle bluff]

wait what?

Why...... It's only 5% for less uptime in escalations..

[subtle bluff]

It would have less...

[strong cave]

Doesn't future need full armor to get the buff?

[subtle bluff]

Yes.

Just need to be a full armor.

[strong cave]

Empathic is proc'd simply by healing

[open saddle]

You don't need full armor your teammates do

[subtle bluff]

If you ever need to proc it..

[strong cave]

True but how often are they themselves staying at full armor is what I'm getting at

[subtle bluff]

First like 2 mins of the fight I'm never getting hit due to decoy and burn down.

[strong cave]

Maybe I'm too used to playing with brainless players 💀

[subtle bluff]

Say you have someone that's flanking and doesn't needs heals

You could be helping him with it.

[stone python]

Yeah im brainless sometimes 🙂

[strong cave]

Yeah in that case the future chest would help more. But when 1 stray bullet manages to hit them, goodbye all that damage

[subtle bluff]

If you want as a better support would figure have both and swap when need be.

But then my arguement would be starting with BTSU and OC's more.

[subtle bluff]

True but then are you gonna try to launch a bunch of heals at him when you don't LoS of him and he can armor kit instead and get the buff back?

[strong cave]

Yeah I played some escalation today and our healer didn't have ANY overcharge. It was seriously annoying considering my hive went down 3 times due to nobody playing smarter and not rushing spawns

[subtle bluff]

There are "FI players" and support players.

[strong cave]

I can tell they were just healing for a free carry

[lone violet]

Tier 5 is a good farm?

[subtle bluff]

It's right before it gets harder

[strong cave]

I would at most hurl 1 or 2. That's all he would get. If he dies taking that flank, should've hiked a grenade or a decoy instead

[summer totem]

@subtle bluff can you clarify this?

[lone violet]

I’m kinda annoyed I didn’t get the gear I wanted on tier 4

[subtle bluff]

If it's with CS stuff I don't have a real opinion on.. (Good opinion)

[strong cave]

Pretty sure there's a bug regarding core rn and it not properly showing stats

[lone violet]

Time to make a FI build for escal oh man

[strong cave]

Yk, the usual features we get with every update

[summer totem]

Proto cs is broken if that's the case

[strong cave]

Broken indeed. Not meta breaking tho

[summer totem]

Just getting 3 piece with memento and tactician gives 6 skill tiers.

[subtle bluff]

You don't wanna my opinion of CS.

[strong cave]

You don't want mine either

[lone violet]

What do people run as a healer skill wise?

[strong cave]

Healing hive + healing chem

[summer totem]

You're probably gonna say its trash which i agree but its absurd the damage it gives to the capacitor

[exotic talon]

its mid in pve but it goes insane in pvp

[strong cave]

Slap capacitor on striker by default and it'll still do more than core

[subtle bluff]

Not trash.. Just that there something better always than what it wants to try to do.

[summer totem]

Pvp wise i mean

[strong cave]

But yes in pvp it ruined it. It's why I quit

[subtle bluff]

PvP wise different story.

[summer totem]

Core strength is good for solo runs and genuinely broken in pvp

[lone violet]

Bet now I either use birdie or btsu gloves

[strong cave]

Pvp benefits from bonuses. PvE benefits from pooling into specific sources

[exotic talon]

as a recent pvper i wouldnt say it ruined pvp when most people dont even run it
because old pvp builds still work

[summer totem]

So i imagine that its gonna be worse when you have a prototype core strength build

[strong cave]

Use both as chow said. I myself run hot swappable pieces bc no 1 encounter will have 1 answer

[subtle bluff]

PvE CS is barely mid. For every build you can try to make up there alreadyn something better than it.
If you want to do something different yes do CS.

[strong cave]

I legit needed to birdies my healer today. It was embarrassing

DPS shouldn't be picking healer off the floor

[subtle bluff]

I explain it this way: Anyone can use birdies.
You start off with The Setup and BTSU. If you want to be ready swap off BTSU to HE glove after an OC. Then swap to birdies when needed.
The Setup is very powerful.

[summer totem]

4.5 skill tiers 50% WD in 3 pieces
Add in memento's max potential with 30% WD and 30% skill effeciency
Add in an armor core strength with another proto gear with armor. 33% WD and skill effeciency.

[subtle bluff]

Giving your team a 15% AMP to a target is VERY powerful.

[summer totem]

If my math's correct and assuming that core strength's 75% works like that

[strong cave]

As a long time pvper, there's no point running anything else other than Umbra/Core/Regen. It eventually reached a point even the older pvp builds barely function. Barely. If pvp only has 3 decent dominating builds and nothing else competes, it's bad service and design. More infuriating than it's worth

The only way to win is to not play

[subtle bluff]

It happens to the best of us.

[strong cave]

Don't give the devs ideas. They might make Blacklisters 2.0

[summer totem]

Me personally i use birdies with refractors

[strong cave]

It might give 90,000 amplified damage to the team

[magic pilot]

More dmg

[strong cave]

Well, considering 3 of 4 of us thought it was a good idea to rush a rusher ad spawn door, I'd say it's a skill issue on this part

[magic pilot]

I think you are confused chow, empathic gives TWD/TSD by healing you don't need full armor

[strong cave]

Especially the ones that yk... Go boom

[exotic talon]

exotic mmr that prevents you from doing damage to the marked target but every friendly hit on them does an extra hit equal to your initial shot

[strong cave]

Empathic is proc'd only by heals and it's 15% for the team. Which is default future I think

So you can get 30 with both I think

[magic pilot]

I just hate hot swapping so I'd just run empathic, plus it's more dmg than future chest

[subtle bluff]

5% more with random uptimes.

[strong cave]

I said the same thing bc they'd need to be at full armor to get that future buff. Empath you just simply need to heal

[exotic talon]

if you run emphatic you miss out on the setup or btsu gloves

[subtle bluff]

My real issues of suggest empathic is it takes off BTSU.

[strong cave]

So you'd lose all 25% if they get damaged. Or, you can have up to i think 30% combined or lose only 15 when shot. Empath keeps the other 15 active. I use it on my pvp fi build

But pvp different so

[subtle bluff]

If you want to setup for more dmg then Global OC and someone run scanner.

[strong cave]

I'm with chow on BTSU. Keep those skills active they're quite strong

[subtle bluff]

Global OC is way more important and powerful.

and ya global refresh

[strong cave]

I heavily agree. especially when you're spending revive hives like they're escalation tokens

I hope this new exotic AR leaves bittersweet in the dust. Bittersweet is such a nice healer gun but it's so ass

Dare say you need aimbot just to make it worth considering 💀

[magic pilot]

If you are running birdies I'd assume the team isn't staying at full armor

[subtle bluff]

BTSU... Hive... heal...

[magic pilot]

We are talking about birdies version

[exotic talon]

see the thing is you arent supposed to run birdies by default

[magic pilot]

That's what the person asked

[subtle bluff]

No you're swapping on to it depending on how much you need it.

[strong cave]

Tell that to half of those matchmaking rn

[magic pilot]

They didn't want to swap either

[subtle bluff]

You just swap on gloves beforehand

[magic pilot]

^

[exotic talon]

if youre too lazy to switch its better to be on btsu

[strong cave]

How objectively useless is Future backpack? Hear me out- you all huddle together

[subtle bluff]

ALP or Hana-u gloves.. Doesn't matter much.

[subtle bluff]

I heard back in the OG days that's what they had to do with IH

[hazy steeple]

So just to make 100% sure before I suggest it to folks, OD is the go-to for the upcoming GE, right?

[exotic talon]

if you do your job right you wont need to revive people

the status one? im gonna run eclipse for the funny

[strong cave]

In pvp sometimes the bag is considered so you can take BTSU and force global tier 6 for the team

[subtle bluff]

This is making want to make a bigger section within my guide for BTSU..

[strong cave]

Plus you wanna just hand hold your rogue group making the backpack absolutely worth it

[magic pilot]

Except when they specifically ask for a birdies setup.....

[strong cave]

I've toyed with Cavalier Healer for strictly countering EMP. I genuinely wonder how it would work on an escalation run

I'd be sharing total hazard protection I think. Or damn near majority of it. Can't be EMP'd either

[magic pilot]

Yep

[exotic talon]

are hazards even a concern in escalation
i feel like whatever applies them would just kill you outright

[magic pilot]

Pve it's just not needed since you don't even run all repair skills rolls on a healer

[subtle bluff]

we don't suggest to start with birdies is the idea.

[exotic talon]

unless its a robodog explosion or something but just dont stand near it

[subtle bluff]

Even if it's just The Setup and w/e gloves.

[strong cave]

I'm thinking against the one EMP enemy modifier. Was very annoying it knocked out my decoy and hive

[magic pilot]

I've grown tired of trying to meta-fy everyone. I'll give the information but if they want to run "birdies tank hybrid dps" I'll give the best advice I can

[exotic talon]

ah fair, it might be an interesting second support

[strong cave]

Healer got knocked out by it too

[strong cave]

I'm currently the guy trying to stray away from the exhaustingly overused meta and write a whole ass guide around it. Without recommending pure ass slop or builds that will ruin overall player experience

[subtle bluff]

To a degree I understand that.
There ones I do that too then if they will listen I'll explain why.

But it's really up to them and there team.

[strong cave]

It's not been easy because what we have is already efficient. I'm searching for fun and efficient. You won't find much of that

[twin parcel]

Fun build for Countdown, especially when teammates die on last encounter, can easily tank the damage and rez the omega-giga DPS people

[strong cave]

If it works, it works

[subtle bluff]

Heroic CD?

[strong cave]

Look into Cavalier for Countdown, specced into healing. It's nice against hunters

[twin parcel]

up to 800kCH and if someone uses Coyote up to 1m

[shy basalt]

I mean a lot of things are viable for general heroic gameplay

[exotic talon]

would cavalier + sawyer + chill out for 4 pfe mods be any good for a tank build

[shy basalt]

Escalations are just screwed in how they scale difficulty

[twin parcel]

for what mode/difficulty

[strong cave]

Yeah but my guide will go beyond just Heroic. Its being tested for Legendary/Master as well as details on group Scaling and how well it'll perform against enemy factions

I'm not touching escalation at all. Too niche, follows the usual copy paste meta

[strong cave]

I actually have a good tank build I would seriously recommend you look into. Multiple users here can vouch for it

[shy basalt]

I mean it probably is fine then

[strong cave]

Can clear Master/Leggo

[shy basalt]

The game isn't that hard you can beat it with a lot of stuff

[strong cave]

Be warned: it's group dependent

[twin parcel]

is it the Foundry leggo one with PFE (i only recently got back into game a week ago after years hiatus)

[strong cave]

No. Absolutely not. Foundry is hot trash

Very selfish tank set. Very useless. Practically zero support

[exotic talon]

my tank build is equalizer overdogs blue core striker w/ bulwark and tempest on tech for artificer hive and tier 5 shield

[livid sorrel]

the world if hb didn't suck:

[strong cave]

Would you like to give the team 2m armor on demand whenever you want?

[subtle bluff]

HEY.. Sir.. take that back.

[strong cave]

I don't think he has his receipt chow

[exotic talon]

is this some tardigrade bs

[twin parcel]

the one I saw by mere happenstance was foundry for solo so makes sense

[strong cave]

No 👀 better

[livid sorrel]

I love it conceptually but in practice... 😭

[strong cave]

Once you see the setup you'll see why it's slept on

[exotic talon]

foundry is very funny because with the right setup it makes you functionally immortal
but you also barely do more damage than just running cooler

[subtle bluff]

I love my tech tank...

[livid sorrel]

Letting us regen bonus armor at max stacks would fix it, i don't even care if it's just worse strikers with stricter weapon choices

[strong cave]

Chow I really need to get you on my tank setup

It's so goddamn fun

[subtle bluff]

Meh.

[twin parcel]

may you post so we can see

[subtle bluff]

If I ever did tank build for group it'll be 6 Skill Tier support tank.

[exotic talon]

i think what hb could benefit from is an innate way to pulse enemies
maybe like that dogshit shd exposed event but just on headshots or something

[twin parcel]

uh... Headshots do apply pulse with HB...

[strong cave]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1q_YDqfLgSqJn1XElKkFdydgByi1wrpkuKypd0qD82nc/edit?usp=drivesdk

Currently unfinished guide. Navigate to the support section and locate "Pointmanize"

[shy basalt]

Lol

That's exactly what it does

[strong cave]

Not everyone has a head tho. example: warhounds

[exotic talon]

only on the target though, the example i gave is like the pulse skill centered on the target

did you play during the shd exposed global event

[strong cave]

Enemy Gadgets can be pulsed but don't have heads either. No LLP and you're EMP'd with no skills. What then? Swap to striker

[twin parcel]

this is correct, but he mentioned headshots though

[exotic talon]

i also mentioned the kind of pulse effect i was thinking of

[hazy geode]

Does anyone got a pair of btsu data gloves they can share / drop me

[hexed steppe]

no

[strong cave]

Have to be in the same group in order to share

[shy basalt]

Idk i dont think thats the issue with hb lol

[hazy geode]

Gg

[shy basalt]

I think even if it did that nobody would use it still

Its just purely a numbers problem

The numbers are not good enough for the cost of making it work

[strong cave]

Tbh I barely see anyone use it now anyways. It's all proto striker escalation builds

People stopped watching KVD and all flocked to Toastey's vids instead lol

[twin parcel]

i guess, i didnt interpret that the way you intended

[livid sorrel]

how much of an improvement is that

[summer totem]

Striker and TS undeniably the only functioning high dps build

For high tier escalation

[hexed steppe]

i see more ninja slop than anything else most of the time outside escalations

[strong cave]

I mean, educational wise, a drastic fkn improvement. In terms of overall build advice, still categorized as niche

It only applies to escalation

[exotic talon]

i really wish nbb was good in pve

[summer totem]

It just sucks that everything about dps revolves in scaling builds

[livid sorrel]

5 proto ninja slop

[strong cave]

It's not that bad. It's just not worth trading up more damage for mediocre bonuses

[shy basalt]

The problem here is escalation design

They made it so only dps matters

[strong cave]

I've cleared Leggo using NBB w/ Equalizer and Providence. It wasn't fun but it was still doable

[exotic talon]

missing out on any kind of backpack talent is just too big of a tradeoff in pve

[livid sorrel]

i dont mind scaling builds, there's just isn't much creativity in it

[summer totem]

Imagine they make it so that NBB inherits 50% of the completed gear sets backpack talent

[strong cave]

Obviously I used striker

[livid sorrel]

give me bl2 gaige anarchy

[livid sorrel]

proto nbb gets a he talent

[strong cave]

Heavily agree. Striker backpack damage is so noticeable when you're not running it

[exotic talon]

i would love to run 3pc hotshot 1pc habsburg 1pc airaldi with nbb for all the juicy stats
but i highly doubt it competes with just vigilance

[shy basalt]

And man what happened to the bl franchise lol, they completely stopped innovating after bl2 and its just become slop with cringe dialogue

[strong cave]

2 Habs 2 Airaldi would instantly beat it if going ODogs and Chainkiller

[summer totem]

Nbb is only good for pvp ngl

[livid sorrel]

i didnt play much bl beyond a hacked bl2 and one tps playthrough

[exotic talon]

im currently going for 3pc hotshot 2pc habsburg 1pc airaldi w/ headhunter and vigilance
proooobably would swap the gloves for overdogs at the cost of missing the hotshot 3 piece bonus

[summer totem]

What ways would you guys suggest to make NBB for pve without removing the puzzle talent

[shy basalt]

Bl2 was good. Laughing jack is honestly one of the best villains

[shy basalt]

Nerf numbers all around prob

[exotic talon]

random high end talent thats weaker than normal

[shy basalt]

Reduce the current numbers on BP dmg talents from 15-25% to 10-18% range

[summer totem]

Nbb already ass why make it even more ass

[shy basalt]

Wdym lmao

[strong cave]

Make room for harrier Pride maybe

[exotic talon]

i think dis means nerfing everything but nbb so its less of a tradeoff

[shy basalt]

Thats how you make nbb better

[hexed steppe]

turn it into a component and use it to upgrade something better

[livid sorrel]

probably a buff per different brand or gearset you have

[summer totem]

Harrier pride havent heard that since the heian era (2 months ago)

[exotic talon]

i saw 3 of it in countdown yesterday

[shy basalt]

The problem is that it doesnt compete with any of the BP talents

[strong cave]

They nerf striker again I don't think this game will see another year out of it. They toyed with fire during Manhunts 2.0

[summer totem]

Harrier pride is just the scaling version of memento if im not wrong

[livid sorrel]

harrier pride suffers from losing stacks after every fight

[summer totem]

Without the trophies

[exotic talon]

its memento if you didnt need kills but your buffs randomly changed values

[strong cave]

If they made it to where out of combat doesn't reset it, I would genuinely use it

[shy basalt]

I don't fundamentally see anything wrong with nerfs

[summer totem]

In any case 70% of the exotic list are ass ngl

Sacrem imperium for example

[shy basalt]

Esp when something is over performing

[dim fox]

Does anyone know if accuracy actually effects the Sherriff? I cant for the life of me tell if it does anything at all...Sure the targeting reticule gets smaller but I sware that the pellets still spray out in the same formation at any meaningful range.

[summer totem]

Every shotgun exotic except scorpion and Sheriff

[strong cave]

I see quite a lot right now. Nerfing should never be an answer. Buffing other shit up to par is a better idea. That way we don't end up where we are now: overwhelmingly dominant but very slim meta builds

[hexed steppe]

a full dps nerf is the only way to even out the game so it isnt a big dps check

call me crazy

[shy basalt]

Disagree lmao

[summer totem]

The only thing that needs nerfing rn is the double dip capacitor core strength

[hexed steppe]

👴

[livid sorrel]

That always sounds like a good idea but I doubt there's any games that has pulled that off

[shy basalt]

Look at games where they do buff only

[exotic talon]

we cant have a dps nerf without rebalancing the endgame around dps not being so dominant

[strong cave]

I mean, that would work too

[shy basalt]

You end up with shitfests like darktide

[ocean wyvern]

I think less of a DPS time and more of a TtK balance is needed

[summer totem]

Also toning down the enemies

[shy basalt]

Ye this is kinda the issue

[summer totem]

Anyways praying they add directives for escalation 100%

[exotic talon]

also just give tank builds some way to naturally draw aggro im begging you massive

[shy basalt]

For example, escalations entire scaling is basically a dps check

[exotic talon]

why do tanks lose the threat race to dps

[dim fox]

having more enemies that counter just laser beaming enemies down with bullets would go a long way to changing the meta

[summer totem]

I wanna fk up my mental health by wasting tokens in tier 10 full directives

[strong cave]

Just get closer my guy. My Pointmanize build is perfect for that

[hexed steppe]

because they arent a threat

[strong cave]

Not unless they're up close and mag dumping into their faces. I would know as a tank

[summer totem]

Yeah ngl there should be a threat stat for library to draw aggro

[hexed steppe]

decoy is best tank in the game

[strong cave]

Basically need to wave a big flag saying 'hey, blind dumbass, I'm right here'

[livid sorrel]

think about it
chungas are high threat and can deal lots of damage
tanks aren't

[strong cave]

Got it, more McDonald's and less strikers. I deal more damage

[dim fox]

an item that takes a % of allies near you would make tanking viable I think.

[summer totem]

Even the dudes with the wooden bats are more of a threat than a player with a tank build

[hexed steppe]

imagine a weapon that scales like capacitor, but on blue cores

[strong cave]

What would it be called? Marshmallow cannon?

[summer totem]

Maybe a talent?

[livid sorrel]

gearset that scales dmg on armor remaining

[strong cave]

Talent: Stay Smurfy 😂

[summer totem]

Balanced out in the process

[dim fox]

would be really good with the new gear set 😛

[summer totem]

You lose out on weapon talent but you gain more WD as a tank

[strong cave]

That's like forgoing sprinting but being allowed to walk really really fast at the expense of twice your energy

[shy basalt]

I think the best way for them to change the way it works is by adding modifiers into the game that are detrimental to pure dps such as strikers and benefit other playstyles

[strong cave]

Don't they do that every season tho

[livid sorrel]

modifier that gives enemies dr on hit

[shy basalt]

Ie: a mod that says every time you hit an enemy they gain x% DR so it encourages rifles and mmrs

[hexed steppe]

anyways, yall need more mortar in your life

[strong cave]

Still using Impetus btw 😂

[hexed steppe]

not for mortar

plz no

[strong cave]

Hell yeah for mortar

[hexed steppe]

glass is calling

[shy basalt]

Yes these kinds of mods instead of raw HP scaling on escalations for example

[ocean wyvern]

I love the idea of mortar, but I could never run it myself because I'm wayyyy too impatient

[strong cave]

I'll run glass when I care to play more than 8 hours a month local 😭

[hazy steeple]

Damn local for doing this to me

[shy basalt]

Or "enemies take 80% less gun dmg, but 200% more dmg from skills" as a escalation modifier for example

[strong cave]

The build is genuinely fun. But it definitely takes some skill and getting used to

[shy basalt]

I think that kind of design is genuinely more interesting to me

Than 300% more hp and dmg btw

[summer totem]

Whoever ran a full team mortars in conflict i hope all yall pillows are warm both side

[strong cave]

Please get yourself a measured assembly build to counter that

[hexed steppe]

now you gotta push to the improved version

[summer totem]

Wished btsu gloves could be reconfigured with skill damage

[strong cave]

Or better yet spam HW tier 6 EMP w/ shield

[strong cave]

This shit full 6 tiers?

[hexed steppe]

that setup with btsu will hit 10-13mil mortars

[hexed steppe]

yes

proto skilltiers

[strong cave]

NIIICE. I definitely wanna proto this build

Nah keep that, that's funny 😂

[livid sorrel]

proto skill tiers probably the most interesting thing out of this system

[spring otter]

since prototype gears give 1.5 skill tier. Do you think capacitor can stack more than 6 skill core aswell?

has anyone tried it?

[hexed steppe]

its like 15-16mil mortars

[livid sorrel]

it's per core not per skill tier

[spring otter]

isnt utility core = skill tier?

oh so prototype gear 1 utility core is worth 1.5 skill tier?

[hexed steppe]

it will only use 6 skilltiers, no matter how many you squeeze in

[summer totem]

4.5 skill tiers 50% WD in 3 pieces
Add in memento's max potential with 30% WD and 30% skill effeciency
Add in an armor core strength with another proto gear with armor. 33% WD and skill effeciency.

[ocean wyvern]

correct

[strong cave]

So there is a noticeable difference, damn. For me I wanted to look into ODogs but don't care to proto anything

[twin parcel]

will try P-Galvanized, the rest idk about, I have Investor 2% regen already (got 3% before but didnt like the actual attributes so rerolled) and play solo 95% of the time, so not too sure on the rest of it. Inclusion of scorpio is good, catharsis just pops off when I dont need it to. When I need Catharsis to pop its never ready

[summer totem]

Overall if my math's right you're looking at 200k+ capacitor WD

[hexed steppe]

you can do it with 2 ba pieces too if no proto

its about 12mil i think when i replaced grupo pieces

[strong cave]

Don't go for perfect Galvanized. It's pointless. Regular will work better in this case because allows you to take armor bonus. Electrique gives you basically nothing but status and tiny bit more bonus armor. At the cost of less Regen. Investor is a bad mask to use, mainly because catharsis will apply to both you and your team in the cloud. Plus it gives you damage at the same time

[spring otter]

thanks big help 🙏 will test it out

[strong cave]

You won't see the Regen start being worth it on investor unless you go all blues. But catharsis is 5% per second in cloud which is way more than investor 3%. Plus as I said, you get damage too

[summer totem]

Anyways its per core, 1.5 doesnt mean anything to capacitor 1.5 is still 1

But if you're running core strength that's not proto you'll get at least 8 + 11 % weapon damage per skill core

[hexed steppe]

i havent checked how cap reacts to proto cores yet

[strong cave]

The mask and chest are a must on the build. The rest, as long as you get the same piece bonus, where they are slotted doesn't matter

[summer totem]

You have proto CS

[strong cave]

Local won't touch that slop

[summer totem]

Been wondering about how the proto version works for proto CS

[hexed steppe]

no, just in general. i wont use cs. its not good for me

[strong cave]

😂

[summer totem]

I'll give you limited edition manny ortega bikini pics

[hexed steppe]

i dont pvp, and there isnt enough there for it to be worth in my mind

[strong cave]

His boom booms don't make big numbers with core. He won't like it

[strong cave]

You excited for the new GE coming up?

[hexed steppe]

i have a proto eclipse setup too thats kinda bananas

just read about it, its alright i think. ill wait and see

[summer totem]

Also does drone and turret hp scale with your armor?

[hexed steppe]

define armor

[strong cave]

Like Rivens I am also going OD for the event. Will be running iron lung w/ odogs. No Vigi tho, will be swapping to Creeping death as well during it

[shy basalt]

Scalea with your skill tier and skill health iirc

[strong cave]

Hoping lung will spread the flames and obviously OD rounds will apply bleed too. I'll be a walking hazard dealer

[summer totem]

Maybe it just placebo but i noticed that CS turret and drone build harder to kill than refractors and full drone build

[hexed steppe]

was the refactor running glass

[summer totem]

Nah

[hexed steppe]

skill efficiency would increase skill health

[summer totem]

Impertus with named hana u backpack

[twin parcel]

Nobody is gonna be close enough to me for Cath to help them. Cath also requires you to be stationary to get the heals, which is the only thing that I actually would want from it. The damage is okay i guess. But 3% regen for one slot while using other things in other slots is a pretty nice upside, especially when you can remain mobile and still heal.

Also again, I play 95% solo and do countdown sometimes, so vanguard is not as appealing to me

[summer totem]

OHHHHH NOW I SEE

[hexed steppe]

skill efficiency is all skill traits

[summer totem]

No wonder my turrets and drones were tanky

[hexed steppe]

so pretty strong when there is a lot of it

[strong cave]

Makes complete sense. Yeah this wouldn't be an ideal solo build at all. But, give it a try in countdown. It's also stupid fun to run

[hazy steeple]

goddamit

[summer totem]

30% skill efficiency from memento and 33% from all other non skill core

[lone violet]

is there a way to build a FI loadout while using btsu and birdie

[smoky latch]

Si

[lone violet]

skill haste on all the skill core?

[gentle lichen]

Hotswapping❤️‍🩹

[smoky latch]

Skill Haste mods for me, but you might like Repair Skills better

[lone violet]

might use this for escal climbing think im on tier 4

[smoky latch]

Can use it beyond that too

[ripe crypt]

Any recommendations on a good build to get back into the game with? My builds feel outdated

[smoky latch]

There are many "good builds" but it depends on what you like to play as

A good source to check and compare your builds to is the spreadsheet which is pinned in this channel

[hexed steppe]

must haves are mortar and fire eclipse setups. everyone else will recommend a dps build 💯

[drifting fiber]

should i keep tempting fate to get an all red?

[upper yew]

It took me around 80 lengmo holster drops specifically to get 2 usable red cores

I say give it a try, you lose nothing but your sanity

[subtle bluff]

There are 84 different rolls.

for something that is only slightly better than Coyote, Ceska or Grupo.

[hazy steeple]

So what is the actual reason people want a triple Red Investor?

[hexed steppe]

42%chd, right

[hazy steeple]

It's valid if "I just want a shiny thing", but like, that's a lot of Exo Comps spent on a stash item.

[drifting fiber]

idk i just think maybe it can replace overdogs

[hexed steppe]

it wont

[hazy steeple]

Red: +10% Crit Damage
Yellow: +5% Skill Efficiency
Blue: +1% Armor Regen
PvP Only: 0.5% Armor Regen```
Okay so I mean, that seems fine, but not Overdogs-level.

[lapis hare]

Is 50% crit chance and 78% crit damage good? Striker memento build here.

[subtle bluff]

Numbers...

• Investor 15 WD / 8 WH / 6 CHC / 12 CHD | 30 CHD
  • No Gear mod slot
• Coyote 15 WD / 6 CHC / 12 CHD | 10 CHC + 10 CHD or just 25 CHD
  • Gear Mod 6 CHD or 12 CHD
• Ceska/Grupo 15 WD / 6 CHC / 12 CHD | 8 CHC or 13 CHD
  • Gear Mod 6 CHC or 12 CHD

More less it's not better.

[shy basalt]

tbh it would've been nice

if they had made the numbers good enough to be worth trying to get one

even if it's only slightly better

it would be a decent material dump for ppl who are bored

[drifting fiber]

honestly the thing is i just don't even want to deal with the picking targets with overdogs
so i was thinking doing full red investor + streamline lexington or something idk

[subtle bluff]

You do not need to do it. It'll naturally do more.

You can watch in this clip I am not targeting any of them for overdogs and things are going down just fine.

Streamline isn't as good as it looks.

[hexed steppe]

i like it on hh builds

but outside of that, skills are too useful

[subtle bluff]

Idk if you looked at what I posted at your but Coyote gives more than investor.

[hexed steppe]

investor was perfectly named and timed. drain all those exo right before you realize how much youre gonna need them 😂

[subtle bluff]

It's niche if nothing.

[hexed steppe]

i put it break even with coyote tbh. youre never really needing thhe chc from coyote so its wasted potential

[hybrid pelican]

Its good for certain selfish pvp builds.. for pve coyote wins about every time besides off meta builds imo

[ripe crypt]

Specialization recommendation for this build? 4 piece striker

[hexed steppe]

gunner

you can stick with firewall if youre benefitting from the shield tho

[ripe crypt]

my gunners not quite max rank but it should level up fast I guess

[hexed steppe]

equip it before doing your invaded stuff and itll level quick

[subtle bluff]

If you're not convicted
.
Then add 30 CHD for the investor build.

[lone violet]

hmm

i wonder if algam apply to turret and drone bullets

[smoky latch]

Nah not worth keeping. Wrong attribute

[hexed steppe]

i sure hope they dont get convicted

[lone violet]

regreat not getting to expert 30 but like where would i donate the printer if the stuff i use is proficient?

like where

[drifting fiber]

wait my chc for lexington doesn't match up??

[hexed steppe]

anywhere you dont have proficient items

[subtle bluff]

uh?

[hexed steppe]

sets you dont use, skills you hate, named items you dont have

[drifting fiber]

oh it's probably extra chc from the mask?

cause my chc is at 43%

[subtle bluff]

look again...

Gear doesn't change one weapons Crit

[drifting fiber]

bruh

[subtle bluff]

Yes... CHC is overall...

[drifting fiber]

well our conversation is about using the investor or coyote mask so this extra 8% would be out of the equation in the first place

[subtle bluff]

No..

[hexed steppe]

either way, both are less damage than overdogs

so yall back and forth on whats 2nd place... or first loser

[drifting fiber]

yeah but what i am trying to come up with is something i don't need to worry about any conditionals, for overdogs there's hierarchy consideration, for coyote there is engagement distance consideration
I just want to make sure that the investor won't severly underperfom

[hexed steppe]

i get that. and i would say use what feels most comfortable

[lost wren]

this is from the escalation striker build in hub right?

[hexed steppe]

overdogs will be the top performer, even if you ignore hierarchy

[lost wren]

wait no that's an mg5, not a mk46

[subtle bluff]

@drifting fiber Ceska and no Ceska

[hexed steppe]

theyre considering coyote or investor

[subtle bluff]

no. Just showing example

[drifting fiber]

man that sucks
and here i thought i came up with something that i can completely not worry about conditions

[drifting fiber]

oh well overdogs it is then : P

[onyx sage]

think of it like this, in game design there's a philosophy roughly summarized as "higher input from player, higher output they get from the game"

basically if you have to put in more effort, then you should be rewarded more for that effort, that input can come in the form of conditions (can you satisfy rough conditions? can you risk some survivability/safety for more damage? or in overdogs' example, can you prioritize targets correctly?) or in the amount of extra precision you have to achieve (striker stacks is a clear example)

you can try to minmax your way out of that design philosophy but it is the game designers' goal to limit any such possible way, because it'd be unfair to players who do put in more effort

[drifting fiber]

yes i fully understand that, i never expect this investor build to outperform the overdog build, i just needed to know that this build of mine that i have in mind isn't going to severely underperform to the point of being just factually a bad build

like some of my previous disasters like my OD Bluescreen with The Catalyst build, or my TS "shooting the floor with an ACR with the lucky shot perk until full stacks, then swap to the UIC15 to start combat" build with the Tinkerer on

[onyx sage]

nice, yeah i don't mean to discourage you

[lost wren]

just want to ask for the escalation setup, this is the proper stat distribution right? especially for the chc and chd stuff

[livid sorrel]

Math might be off but roughly, a full red investor is comparable to coyote's and overdogs if you only hit the right tiers 1/3rd of the time

[solar sable]

looks good enough

[lost wren]

epico

i'll try out overdogs instead of ceska for escalation

maybe it'll help make it feel slightly better

[solar sable]

Low tier enemies will hate you

[lost wren]

ayup

[subtle bluff]

Hollowman proto is worth without proto isn't as great

[lost wren]

sadly i don't have it proto, not expertise 30

[shy willow]

At that point replace it tbh

[lost wren]

with ceska mask maybe?

[solar sable]

opens space for a bit more CHD yeah

[lost wren]

i'll keep it on as it seems to be ok so far, if not i'll try out ceska mask

[drifting fiber]

I’m afraid I’m too pleb to understand this sheet

[livid sorrel]

using overdogs as a baseline, a full red investor only does 84.28% of sustained damage as overdogs overall

[drifting fiber]

And that isn’t the absolute worst I presume?

[shy willow]

Not the worst but there's no real reason to use investor

Especially when to get the right rolls you have to spend a fortune on reconfig

[livid sorrel]

if you get it go ahead and use it

[smoky latch]

I'd never waste exo comps on that, honestly

[subtle bluff]

It's not worth investing into investor.

[drifting fiber]

I do need to confirm one thing tho, should Lexington remain on killer or should I swap something else to supplement the damage?

[smoky latch]

If you have one Lex then I'd say Measured. Good for solo and group play

Killer shines in solo play but isn't effective in group play

[drifting fiber]

I have like a dozen lexingtons in my stash, and I’m almost always solo other than legendary and escalation missions

[misty crane]

What's a good survivability build for the eagle bearer? I just recently started using it and I actually like it a lot

[smoky latch]

Alright then knock yourself out and have multiple for different builds

[lost wren]

striker memento?

probably the one build that can maybe use it

[smoky latch]

Yeah Memento with Striker's

[misty crane]

I was between this or heartbreaker but I'll try striker first

[lost wren]

heartbreaker no because you can’t equip pulse laser on eagle bearer

[smoky latch]

HB would be more effective with a high-end AR there can attach the LLP

[lost wren]

yup

striker eb memento is unironically a pretty alright pvp build

too bad it’s overshadowed by all the bs that is core strength, umbra, and bighorn regen

[misty crane]

Right now I'd look into any option since I'm still in my "returning" phase and haven't given a proper look into every set in the game rn

Core strength for solo content looks kinda fun tho

I'm also trying to do a support build for groups

[lost wren]

core strength is mid for pve as hybrid builds kind of just do a worse version of everything, better to just have dedicated dps and support builds

[misty crane]

Maybe for a player like myself still low shd in the 350s is a more safer option I think , I've played with HB memento and had striker before and it was a good improvement because I don't have the watch maxed out yet to make an actual proper build and I was just getting destroyed in retals trying to farm blueprints

But at the same time I don't actually want to stay stuck to one build, so idk what else to make rn

[buoyant perch]

A proper striker build

[lost wren]

yeah red striker is sort of the bread and butter for most content

[smoky latch]

Up to heroic you can run whatever, pretty much

[lost wren]

other gear sets work but all roads lead to striker unfortunately

[lost wren]

ongoing directive, negotiator’s dilemma, head hunter for mmrs/1886

those work decently well i think

[buoyant perch]

Heroic missions, sure. But for heroic retal you need a somewhat usable build

[smoky latch]

Yeah okay, Retaliations differ from other heroic content

[lost wren]

i remember using the hotshot headhunter setup for retal
was fun until waves of chungas came around
then it wasn't fun

[livid sorrel]

retals has chunga waves?

[subtle bluff]

WHHERE?!?!?!?!

[livid sorrel]

i havent done retals in a while i forgot

[smoky latch]

Yes

[misty crane]

I don't mind striker but just don't like being a glass cannon tbh, I prefer to have minimum 3 blue cores

[smoky latch]

With three you're giving away a lot of damage

[lost wren]

i distinctly remember the god damn outcast chunga wave that made me immediately switch off of hotshot because of how ungodly miserable it was to clear it

never again

[smoky latch]

Learning curve 📈 haha

[onyx sage]

there will be some content you run into that turn you into glass anyway

the choice you can make now is whether you want to also be the cannon and accept the glass that comes with it

[flint arch]

if you get used to being a glass cannon now, it'll hurt less when you're given no choice later on

[solar sable]

Being afraid of learning something new will leave you stuck in a comfy but painful spot.

"Anyone who stops learning is old, whether at twenty or eighty. Anyone who keeps learning stays young. The greatest thing in life is to keep your mind young." -Henry Ford.

||credits to Chow's bio lul||

[livid sorrel]

my ravenous hungers

[flint arch]

is that THE john ravenous???

[gentle lichen]

I was gonna say bro did not become socrates out of nowhere

[onyx sage]

so crates, man

[vernal wing]

A lesser being, assuredly.

[hazy steeple]

@onyx sage You really hemlocked that reference down.

I regret nothing. But I am glad you got it

[dawn perch]

is there a build for low level escalation that i can use that would be really chill to use and could take as much damage as i want but still deal good damage.

[smoky latch]

Striker's, Equalizer variant

[hazy steeple]

If you're asking for an actual working tank build in Escalation: lol no.

[dawn perch]

tanky build yes. tank build no. I just do not want to stress with practicing and just want to farm

[hazy steeple]

Just rely on cover, use your teammates, and position well.
Or play Tier 0 and it's identical to Heroic.

[flint arch]

put 2-3 blues max on standard striker and run a shield alongside it

[dawn perch]

are those really my options as i can't play dps build at the moment. (kind of bad at it to use)

[flint arch]

but by low tiers i do mean rather low. like tier 2

[dawn perch]

so just off brand striker?

[smoky latch]

Just practice.

[flint arch]

basically

[smoky latch]

Heroic is a good start

[dawn perch]

problem is that i need farm some refactor gear for another build and i have no idea when that is coming back =_=

also practice will be on my own time.

[smoky latch]

Well how about you farm a regular Refactor build first? Or is that out of the picture?

[exotic talon]

we really need a capacitor for blue cores

[dawn perch]

i already have it

[hazy steeple]

Unless you are using it for high Tier Esca, you do not need Proto gear.

[dawn perch]

prototype opens up weapon damage

[flint arch]

refactor is guaranteed to be maxed out if prototyped manually

[smoky latch]

Yup, but the plot twist is most proto gear is useless in high Escalation tiers 😅

[flint arch]

but i will say that for skill builds, refactor is a big fat meh tbh

[smoky latch]

And a regular build is good enough for anything below Escalations

[exotic talon]

refactor is john skill build it does nothing unique

[flint arch]

if you want damage, mortar does it better
if you want healing, FI does it better

i don't particularly suggest investing more than the bare minimum into it

[dawn perch]

funny enough i am most proficient with using skill build rather than dps. i have better time doing FI or other skill builds than being dps

[exotic talon]

what two brands did mortar want, one of them is china light industry

[flint arch]

unicorn grupo pieces

[smoky latch]

GS and CL

Plus Sacrifice in unicorn version

[exotic talon]

tom clancy's unicorn hunter

[dawn perch]

i might try mortar. consider i just feel better at skill builds.

and evenutally i will get better at dps

[dawn perch]

(because it takes time to be even good at it)

[spare steppe]

is my build good? doing 2.6 m dps

[solar sable]

Range DPS meter is useless.

[solar sable]

Prototype Tipping Scales has a lot of diminishing returns due to Prototype already giving tons of crit plus TS stacking more.

[spare steppe]

what should i do then

a proto striker?

[spare steppe]

that was my dammage today in a tier 10

[solar sable]

Yes, Prototype actually helps Strikers more than TS since Striker’s is an AMP.

Your DMG in the final screen has a cap that can be looped. That's not your real DMG as you don't know how many times it looped. The cap is set to 2^32, when it hits the cap it becomes negative, hits again the cap goes back to positive and so on.

[buoyant perch]

DR on both crit and wp damage (TS gives 30% LMG damage)

[spare steppe]

alright guess ill farm a perfect proto set next time

[solar sable]

thx o7

[spare steppe]

was thinking about running the proto gloves that gives 10% lmg dammage with both crit chance and crit dammage

[smoky latch]

Another Chow. Prepare to get pinged accidentally

[buoyant perch]

You get DR with both weapon damage and crit on a TS build

[spare steppe]

whats the best of the best then

proto striker? and i have a all red investor is that any better

[flint arch]

another Chow, how many Chows are there, it's like clowns from a clown car

[smoky latch]

lol

[buoyant perch]

striker is best but you can have a working TS build while aiming towards striker. The main concern with TS long stacking time (10s without chest, 15s with chest) and quick to lose stacks. So with minimal change to your build swap ceska to equalizer chest.

[spare steppe]

i tried equalizer chest and did less dammage

[buoyant perch]

Red investor is not good

[spare steppe]

and tinkerer lets u have 5m dps potential with the right perks

[buoyant perch]

Did you read what I wrote?

[spare steppe]

equalizer isnt good for scaling dammage g

only in early game

i thought a all red investor would be good

[buoyant perch]

Well you do you. Minimal damage gain for 50% longer stacking time.

[spare steppe]

thats fine

i think tinkerer ts might be the best as long as u have a perfect lmg perks set to reach over 5m dps

[mossy reef]

what are the preferred augments to run for refactor proto?

[subtle bluff]

Proto Gear/Weapons are not better than a proper build/gear/weapons.

[spare steppe]

how?

[smoky latch]

I'd say try Anomaly, would make sense. Synesthesia is another obvious option I might say

[subtle bluff]

Number don't lie.

Also using the raange for your DPS counter is bad idea.

[spare steppe]

it was my dammage in a tier 10 today

[subtle bluff]

that thing is bugged.

[spare steppe]

did 2.6m per shot

[mossy reef]

so 3 anomaly/3 synesthesia?

[flint arch]

-# there are two chows here

[subtle bluff]

Measure a build output with your per bullet dmg isn't the way.

[smoky latch]

Up to you, I have not seen a test chart by anyone so I can't talk numbers with you

[spare steppe]

this isnt good then

[subtle bluff]

Because me saying I do 4.3m a crit confuses players.

[hazy steeple]

||I know right, it confused me too.||

[spare steppe]

thats clearly a bug

[buoyant perch]

You do know what dps stands for right? Damage per second.

[subtle bluff]

That's acutally is not.

I can do out in the world.

[spare steppe]

how long does it take to set up that one shot

[subtle bluff]

3 shots

Actually 1

The point is understand how to stack it to that high.

[spare steppe]

its not optimal for overall dammage

[buoyant perch]

That's right! We don't measure dps with single bullet damage. You got it.

[spare steppe]

comparing a setup to get one shot 50 million to 2.6m per bullet is not the same

[subtle bluff]

I could say the same here.

[spare steppe]

and thats with striker

[subtle bluff]

But this doesn't do more than the normal build

[subtle bluff]

LOL it isn't..

You're missing the point.....

[spare steppe]

was thinking it was

ts with tinkerer lets u get 5m dps

[subtle bluff]

Stop INF

TS couldn't ever to what this does PER Bullet.

Lol at the non crit

[spare steppe]

whats the non crit from

[subtle bluff]

First off.... where are you getting "5m DPS" from?

Are you mathing it? or from the range?

[spare steppe]

perfect proto ts with perfect proto lmg with tinkerer

if you get the 2 perfect traits u can reach over 5m per shot

[subtle bluff]

BUDDY...

Per Shot, DPS what are you speaking.

[spare steppe]

and whats ur non crit from

[hazy steeple]

2 named items with Tink, you say?

[subtle bluff]

his wording is everywhere.

[spare steppe]

strained and i forgot the other one

[subtle bluff]

You're still missing the point....

The build I just showed doing dmg does less DPS than TS and Striker.

Do you understand why that is?

[hazy steeple]

So just to confirm: your build has Tink and 2 Named guns?

[atomic anchor]

is this channel sharing proto builds yet

[spare steppe]

yea not even the best perks yet

[smoky latch]

You can share and ask whatever you want (build related)

[atomic anchor]

ooh nice

[subtle bluff]

Bud...

[spare steppe]

i just want to min max my gear and know what i can do better not less

[subtle bluff]

So you do 5m per shot and 5m DPS

[spare steppe]

i dont have the 2 best traits on lmg yet

[subtle bluff]

You said both what do you mean by that.

[spare steppe]

i already seen someone reach that with the same stuff i have but better lmg traits

[hazy steeple]

@spare steppe It's confusing, just say it plainly so we can clear the air: What 2 guns are you using, their names?

[subtle bluff]

................

[spare steppe]

i told u if u have perfect ts with tinkerer and perfect lmg with perfect traits u can reach over 5mdps

[subtle bluff]

@spare steppe What does DPS mean?

[spare steppe]

https://giphy.com/gifs/spongebob-spongebob-squarepants-episode-10-3ohzAxlxotB9vmFUty

its not hard to understand what i said lol

[subtle bluff]

5m DPS is very low on DPS charts.

[atomic anchor]

nice im using four piece TS all four came with 22% weapon dam, using equalizer and Turmoil both 15% weapon dam and only 2 pieces with echo but surely makes T4 seem easy easy with pestilence

[spare steppe]

whats the best overall build then is what i want to know

[subtle bluff]

I'm more than sure you're confused here.

There is no Best Overall build.

[spare steppe]

i think your jealous i turned out to be the real chow

[subtle bluff]

Than explain what DPS means.

It's not that hard..

Damage
Per
Second

[hazy steeple]

@spare steppe Enough with the emoji reactions, behave.

[atomic anchor]

tbh you'll know from what build ran the most by ppl if you inspect ppl's builds often imo its still striker overall

[subtle bluff]

We use DPS to vs per bullet dmg because RoF (rate of fire) is a thing.

[smoky latch]

Why acting like a 5 yo when someone tries to explain something to you? ^^

[spare steppe]

thats what i been doing

[atomic anchor]

what have u noticed?

[spare steppe]

tipping scales is #1

[hazy steeple]

A lot of youtubers have been pushing TS builds lately, but Strikers is the winner for actual numbers.

[atomic anchor]

I havent inspected lately but i can see that although most will likely go back to striker

[hazy steeple]

It explains my slow, slow runs of Esca as of late, frankly.

[subtle bluff]

If TS was #1 it would be used in solo and duo +T8. But it isn't.

[atomic anchor]

ik i will get tired of TS bc striker is always been my go to overall in the end

[onyx sage]

if you run something so much you'll get tired of it one way or another

[hazy steeple]

Just to clear the air: Chow 2 is saying that they've seen more TS builds that Striker. "number one most builds"

[onyx sage]

applies to anything

[subtle bluff]

Do not get me wrong TS does do decent DPS but because how this game does numbers it's drop off without being able to add new numbers to it.

[atomic anchor]

very true

[spare steppe]

im only using tipping scale proto because i missed out on striker and its the best thing i have at the moment so im min max it until striker is in the rotation

[subtle bluff]

Non-proto striker vs full proto TS will sitll do more at least the way you have you believe it should be built.

[atomic anchor]

and you gotta keep firing to keep stacks too

[subtle bluff]

This alone shows that scaling TS with more crit doesn't help it much.

[dusk edge]

so apparently i just nuked all my LMGs. would Pestilence be okay with OD?

[subtle bluff]

Going from 443 to 618 CHD on TS 3-4% in Burst & Sustain DPS and Mag DMG

Pesti tick dmg isn't a Status Effect

[solar sable]

thats why you favorite your weapons...

[subtle bluff]

So it doesn't really go well with OD

[dusk edge]

no not really that. i don't really use LMGs at all

[dusk edge]

only that this new GE made me interested with LMGs (+ dipping my toes with Pestilence)

[hazy steeple]

Pestilence aren't status effects, just an FYI.

[dusk edge]

i only have Exotic LMGs. oof

[spare steppe]

full stacks

vs full stacks tipping

[subtle bluff]

AGAIN... DPS not PER BULLET..

[hazy steeple]

Yep, "damage per second".
not "damage per shot".

[smoky latch]

Brother - did you maybe consider that ECHO plays into your numbers? Can't even test that

[subtle bluff]

Another way to think about it. TTK (Time to Kill)

[atomic anchor]

ik a lot ppl say it would

[spare steppe]

only have 7% echo

[smoky latch]

That is not what I mean. He is showing numbers from a full Echo TS build vs. quickly thrown together Striker's build that does have 1/2 pieces with Echo

[atomic anchor]

on what 5 pieces tho?

[subtle bluff]

@spare steppe

[smoky latch]

Is not much but surely plays into it. I'm quiet again

[subtle bluff]

nah you're good now

I don't think it's getting thru to him anyways

When this is doing more but not...

[atomic anchor]

ik as long as i run with ppl using strikers me running TS makes it smoother for sure

[onyx sage]

892k vs 339k non-crits...

[atomic anchor]

meaning strikers do finish off my kills

[onyx sage]

idk if you looked at that and wondered if TS is truly better...

[subtle bluff]

Just showing examples why this doesn't accuracy show a builds output.

[spare steppe]

this was with ts and equalizer and overdogs

tinkerer has more possible output

[subtle bluff]

You're really not getting the point..

[solar sable]

skill (MrChow) vs spam (chow)

[subtle bluff]

Sir...

I need a AK to make this point maybe..

[hazy steeple]

AK of course here meaning "always kind".

👀

[spare steppe]

noob vs pro

[smoky latch]

More like experienced vs ignorant

[hazy steeple]

Green-ticking your own message is starting to look a little weird.

[spare steppe]

i wanted to min max my build

using overdogs and equalizer or striker doesnt do it vs ts with tinkerer and best lmg traits does

if i had strained and ranger i would do over 5m dps

[hazy steeple]

I would recommend starting off with the min part, before you understand how to max.
Or just copy what people here say. They're trying to help you.

[spare steppe]

i was testing what was suggested and it didnt outperform my build

[subtle bluff]

If I said this is more dmg but not more DPS does that make sense to you?

[spare steppe]

next time when lmg is in rotation ill come back with crazier numbers

[spare steppe]

i would do over 5m with better traits

[subtle bluff]

5m per shot?

[spare steppe]

5m after 5-10 seconds

[subtle bluff]

BUD...

[onyx sage]

i would just save my words at this point

[subtle bluff]

Did you read what I wrote about the dmg I posted even?

[spare steppe]

and what build is that with?

[subtle bluff]

Ya fair... It's starting to be pointless.

[subtle bluff]

Answer the question first.

[spare steppe]

it wouldnt outperform what i said earlier

[subtle bluff]

What did I say earlier?

[livid sorrel]

holy shit we got solid chow vs liquid chow

[hazy steeple]

@spare steppe Your responses are starting to borderline too much, cut them out or I'm going to have to mute you.
I really don't want to do that, so just chill out and take a few hours from this server.

[livid sorrel]

chill out mask.png

[spare steppe]

🤣 i was only asking what i should do to improve my dammage

yea you can mute me ill be long asleep

[livid sorrel]

doesnt seem like you were listening

[spare steppe]

i was testing what was suggested

[atomic anchor]

she is asking nicely

[spare steppe]

used the overdogs gloves and equalizer and did less damage

[spare steppe]

what?

[hazy steeple]

Me, I'm asking nicely for you to chill out with the reactions and stickers.

[spare steppe]

i only put one sticker and whats wrong with a emoji reaction? it was funny

[livid sorrel]

you don't need to, everything's been tested already

[livid sorrel]

the numbers are right here

[spare steppe]

those testings were many months ago

[subtle bluff]

And I haven't suggested anything yet.. I was trying to teach you something but you've yet to try to learn.

[spare steppe]

people are adapting to the ts and tinkerer

[livid sorrel]

okay, let's see you test it yourself then. here

[spare steppe]

im not doing all of that 🤣

[smoky latch]

The main motivation for most players to use TS over Striker's now is simple, they're bored and want to run sth else

Which does not speak for the effectivity of that set but is more a motivational reason

[livid sorrel]

then stop acting like you found a new meta. you have absolutely no credibility

[spare steppe]

i didnt even say i found a new meta

[hazy steeple]

Before I go off to try and salvage my social life for today: what 2 guns are you using for your TS+tink build, the full name of the gun in your Inventory.

[spare steppe]

not the greatest guns with good perks sadly

[onyx sage]

salvage is a pistol talent.

I'm sorry I'll leave.

[hazy steeple]

Exact names.

[smoky latch]

BM M60 and M RPK 74

[spare steppe]

i dont have the 2 traits to fully show the most dammage i can do

[soft crane]

Whuh? There are 2 of them now?

2 chows.

[livid sorrel]

this is getting out of hand

[hazy steeple]

Okay this is taking too long, I'll just outright ask.
Are you using Named guns in your build?

[onyx sage]

now there's...

[spare steppe]

no

[hazy steeple]

You said before that they were "perfect" Talents.
that is a term used in div2 to describe the Talent on a Named Item.

[spare steppe]

im talking about perfect talents for tinkerer

[subtle bluff]

He just doesn't understand why this build. While Yes it does more Per Bullet than TS builds doesn't do more DPS.

[hazy steeple]

Okay so from now on, I'd suggest "ideal" instead of "perfect".
A lot of the confusion here is your wording, I feel.

[spare steppe]

tinkerer is the real key, tipping scales is only whats best to use for the tinkerer

[spare steppe]

i started a week ago

[subtle bluff]

Clearly.

[spare steppe]

did let my pc on a few nights afk

[smoky latch]

Fresh and full proto - ah ya, endgame

[subtle bluff]

This will make no sense to him then.

[hazy steeple]

It's not that hard to get yourself up to proto tier with countdown being a thing for builds.
which is exactly why we always say "it's 50% having the build, and 50% knowing how to use the build".

[soft crane]

We do?

[hazy steeple]

The tricks you learn for the game as you progress are what makes you endgame ready, there really is no good shortcut.

[exotic talon]

is the high tier escal meta striker chest, salvo and overdogs

[atomic anchor]

ok now that looks fun

[solar sable]

no salvo

[livid sorrel]

not salvo, overdogs depends

[sudden cloak]

Hollow man is good

[subtle bluff]

I'm guessing you've been following trying to get point across for DPS vs Bullet dmg?

[subtle bluff]

Look at this guy showing off

[subtle bluff]

Proto version of it is really good.

[atomic anchor]

totally but i been playing 3yrs so

[subtle bluff]

I mean it's not the hardest point to get understand tho.. anyways.

[spare steppe]

whats the stats

[smoky latch]

1337

[spare steppe]

the crit hit and crit dammage

[hazy steeple]

13 and 37, it's very bad.

[smoky latch]

Well my drops are different from yours

[subtle bluff]

@spare steppe do you at least know how much CHD TS makes with BP and Chest?

[atomic anchor]

ik TS is good just not that good but ill give it at attention sometimes but i knew yall were trying to explain som so i didnt want to make that worse ofc

[spare steppe]

is my drops bad

[livid sorrel]

would you rather deal 1b damage to one guy or 1m damage to 100 guys

[exotic talon]

what if
yellow core proto striker with capacitor

[subtle bluff]

oooh ooh I have clip for that.

[smoky latch]

No I meant that the drops I have will have different values from yours

[spare steppe]

whats your dammage looking like overall

with all stacks

[smoky latch]

But for both builds it's 59 CHC and 121/143 CHD

[subtle bluff]

Best DMG overall.
https://youtu.be/Onoevi5NUMk?si=ECIBwo7QvvjYHsIo

[smoky latch]

O I saw that clip

[subtle bluff]

😤

Semi trolling but also...

[spare steppe]

how much damage do you do then

[smoky latch]

A lot

[spare steppe]

1.1m?

[smoky latch]

Idk, I don't pay attention

[subtle bluff]

He won't ever get the point of DPS or Bullet dmg.

[exotic talon]

your damage per hit doesnt matter with burst or sustained dps builds

[spare steppe]

and whats the gloves is it the 10% lmg dammage bonus

[smoky latch]

Overdogs and Ceska gloves

[exotic talon]

ceska is 8% (?) chc

[smoky latch]

Si

[livid sorrel]

ooh did you show the healing chem headshot yet

[spare steppe]

ceska isnt good value compared to other options

[hazy steeple]

Because I know this is going to come up again: The specific weapon damage on stuff is not the full% you see there, on a red build.

[exotic talon]

ceska is literally meta for a 1pc high end slot filler

[smoky latch]

On average you will benefit more from DtH than DtA in Escalations

[subtle bluff]

Since you ask for bullet and build.

[smoky latch]

You were asking about the Contractor's gloves, which have intrinsic 6% DtA

[sudden cloak]

My guy

[exotic talon]

man i need a pummel ksg

[smoky latch]

I think you really don't know what you are talking about

[subtle bluff]

I didn't do the six12 thing.

[summer totem]

Would memento backpack for strikers build good in solo?

[spare steppe]

im looking for the best tier 10 dps build of all time

[subtle bluff]

It's powerful

[atomic anchor]

i think it was made for solo but great overall

[smoky latch]

I just posted two screenshots of different variations, for Escalation that is