td2-build-advice

[cosmic holly]

U also have to remember everyone has a different play style

[meager fog]

That's also true. Everyone is free to enjoy the game any way they wish

[cosmic holly]

[hexed steppe]

Od carnage lmg goated

[meager fog]

Pesti is on the lower end of the DPS scale so doesn't support your argument too well.

I'm not saying LMGs are bad by a long stretch. I enjoy using them.

But effective DPS is why ARs are king, was my point.

[hexed steppe]

Dps on paper and dps in practice are 2 different things tbf. Ones ability to handle recoil plays a big part

[cosmic holly]

I’m hitting 1.3 mil per crit with pakhan lmfao

[meager fog]

Told you Pahkan was the choice.

[cosmic holly]

I already knew it was… but it was either the buzzsaw or Pakhan

[hexed steppe]

Buzzsaw?

[cosmic holly]

Pesti

[meager fog]

Absolutely. There's layers to everything.

DPS is an arbitrary number derived from simple math that fails to take into account human error.

Effective DPS, can be characterised over a larger sample size in "real world" situations taking all factors into account

[cosmic holly]

With 1000 rpm lololol

[meager fog]

And over a large sample size, ARs would win purely because the effective DPS of a weapon type that on average reloads faster, fires faster and hits more often with less skill involved would beat out the truck like LMGs as an average. Not meaning to say that LMGs aren't more dangerous in the right hands.

[meager fog]

Proved my point.

That's DPS. Not effective DPS.

[subtle bluff]

This is all base without including talents

When Bluescreen, Elmo and Iron Lung go down but then all 3 go up for effective because they CC

Then Pesti doesn't double is DPS the pesti tick is a DPS number too

[meager fog]

But Effective DPS cannot be done without a fire test, from the same weapons with the same people over a large sample size to get the averages.

[subtle bluff]

I know what it means

There's a balance I am not saying your wrong by all accounts

[meager fog]

As an average, there are reasons why ARs are the most commonly used. Like I said.

LMGs are dangerous, in the right hands.

[subtle bluff]

There are the number and the ability to get rounds out and on target

[meager fog]

Does look like I was wrong on one account though, without detailing it much, LMGs seem to reload faster per round than ARs

[subtle bluff]

That's pretty much a given.

But if you think to account Mag Dmg is also effective DPS because having more DMG in a mag before having to reload is a thing

[meager fog]

Sure, but you have to account for the average accuracy of those rounds, and range is also a thing 😉

It's a circle.

At the end of the day, use whatever feels comfortable in your hands 🙂

[subtle bluff]

Range LMG wins tho like posted.

The point is if works for you go for it.

[coral reef]

I've traveled far for your wisdom agents, you know who you are. You are here rignt now. Tell me how to make a build around Pestilence, o wise ones 🙏 🙏 🙏

[subtle bluff]

OKies

I have a new guide. I need to fix something on it tho

[coral reef]

Can you link me to it please

[subtle bluff]

give me a min i need to fix and I'll post and tag you or something

but also note.... this build isn't nice to farm at all

[coral reef]

Im a patient agent, even if it uses Ridgeway Pride or whatever im in

[subtle bluff]

UGH

NO embed here anymore I forgot

[subtle bluff]

here posted not the way it suppose to be shared but meh

[urban latch]

DPS is an objective way to calculate something, it's not some arbitrary number

[meager fog]

How can DPS be an objective number when it can be affected by outside sources.

The answer is it can't be objective.

DPS, is by definition arbitrary because it is subject to perfect conditions which cannot be met.

[mild mortar]

LMG with Frenzy and full striker stacks! Does anything beat that? I love it. I melt bosses like butter 😄

[urban latch]

Something like how accurate your able to be with a gun, how someone is able to manage stability, those are subjective things that depend on each player.

DPS is a calculation of the rate of damage. It's by design not accounting for those things because accounting for them would be subjective. The point of dps is to filter those things out and look at things objectively.

Part of understanding dps is understanding what it's not accounting for, but that also doesn't mean it's some useless arbitrary number either.

[meager fog]

Indeed it's a great build

[subtle bluff]

It's DPS a measurement of how much per sec of dmg output your doing.

[urban latch]

I think you might need to look up the definition of arbitrary

[violet juniper]

i saw some random build on reddit, and it surprisingly kinda makes sense

[mild mortar]

But my MK46 have 150 ammo, does that changes those numbers on that list? 150 ammo, full striker stacks and frenzy... = overkill 😄

[violet juniper]

I need to try Vigil or the versatile talent again

[meager fog]

The definition of arbitrary, and arbitrary in mathematics are not the same.

"In mathematics, "arbitrary" signifies that a value or element is chosen without any specific restrictions or conditions" So it's chosen because it ignores subjective values that can alter itself. Making it mathematically arbitrary

[subtle bluff]

Yup more RPM and WD with more ammo. Frenzy is great in a target rich environment or a boss

[meager fog]

"Key aspects of "arbitrary" in math:

Not restricted:
When a value is described as arbitrary, it means it's not limited by any particular condition or constraint within the context of the problem.

Generalization:
The use of "arbitrary" in mathematical statements and proofs helps to demonstrate that a result applies to all elements within a set, not just specific examples"

[violet juniper]

Coyote mask, 3pc lengmo, Contractors gloves, 1pc Ceska

[subtle bluff]

I already posted it!

[violet juniper]

Aww dang it lol

[subtle bluff]

Wish I could do embed here so it would look better. (unlike my typing)

[meager fog]

Shame on discord for making our edits public 😉

[subtle bluff]

Bud chill. Keep it simple or we'll lose what we're trying to do help players.
DPS is a measure of output.

[subtle bluff]

My brain goes to fast

[meager fog]

DPS is an arbitrary (simple) measure of output. I'm not aruging that DPS isn't important, I was attacked for using the word arbitrary in the correct context lol

[violet juniper]

that's not what arbitrary means

arbitrary is an adjective meaning of random choice or whim

[violet juniper]

Thank you

[vestal ibex]

There is a second part to that...

Hence why it's common for people to say "that's just an arbitrary number"

[violet juniper]

Works with both definitions

arbitrary just means random

At base value lol

[vestal ibex]

So saying a thing is an arbitrary measure is correct then?

[violet juniper]

depends on the thing

[meager fog]

Yep, it depends on whether it's mathematics or not.

When a number is arbitrary, it means that it's not dependant on value outside of itself (DPS).

[violet juniper]

if a number is arbitrary, it's unspecified or random

value of the number means nothing because there is no value

[meager fog]

DPS is unspecified, and also random. DPs cannot be constant because RNG exists.

[violet juniper]

how do you define x? For example

it's an arbitrary unit

[vestal ibex]

I can see why they used it because if you were looking at DPS in a thisXthat way then it's not but in actual gameplay it's not that simple.

[violet juniper]

It's specified by the values you give it

[meager fog]

But not in practise, so it's not objective. By definition, it's arbitrary

[violet juniper]

if you give it a value it's objective

It ceases to be random when you place a value upon it

Integers are by definition, objective

[meager fog]

Except DPS cannot be objective, because it fails to take into account anything other than 100 bullets = 100 damage.

You cannot place an objective value on DPS.

[violet juniper]

That's exactly what calculating DPS is

[coral reef]

Thank you kindly brother, I have a new project for the week 🫡

[violet juniper]

this is flat out wrong

It would actually be 100 bullets x its multipliers

DPS for me is as simple as 1 bullet x mag size x multipliers

[meager fog]

DPS is placing a theoretical value based on specified constant factors.

Except those factors literally cannot be constant (Up time of b uffs, downtime from movement/cover usage/healing/no enemies to shoot. Therefore, it's arbitrary.

I'm happy to continue this discussion, but not here as it's going off topic.

[violet juniper]

average numbers are objective btw

The flaw in your reasoning is that all defined numbers are objective

if it's an expression then it's arbitrary by mathetical definition

you can partially measure by the highest number given, or the average number

constant definition of a moving number is impossible though, you're right there

the real question, is why does it matter? you're not calculating your damage in the moment, you're trying to kill stuff

if you mean the spreadsheets, I take it as the results of damage calculated under optimal conditions. Of course it's gonna fluctuate in real time

[urban latch]

DPS absolutely does not apply to this definition either....

[meager fog]

It absolutely does.

It's chosen without any restrictions or conditions.

Restrictions and conditions being uptime of buffs, downtime from debuffs and movement.

[violet juniper]

that's not what math arbitrary means

[urban latch]

You just really don't understand what that term means....

[violet juniper]

I wrote the text wall already please don't make me do it again lmao

[violet juniper]

Good luck dude

[meager fog]

I'm quite sure I do, but do you I guess.

Being wrong and loud about it doesn't suddenly make you correct.

[urban latch]

You seem to be the one trying to be loud lol

Idk, either you don't understand dps or you don't understand the term arbitrary, it's one or the other

Or both. Very likely both

[violet juniper]

undetermined, without a value. Subjective.

[meager fog]

So, again with proving my point.

DPS cannot be a specific value, because there are far too many factors to consider.

[violet juniper]

I'll give you the layman version. X is arbitrary

when you give x a value, it ceases to be arbitrary

[meager fog]

DPs cannot be calculated by simply saying it's X times multipliers. Because there are outlying factors that affect DPS that CANNOt be quantified.

Therefore. Voila. DPS is arbitrary.

[urban latch]

"Y=2X+3", X is arbitrary and you can graph that. That's how the term arbitrary works in math. That's not remotely what is going on with DPS

[meager fog]

^ Instead of the layman version, i'll give you the real version. Discussion is over, you're now taking the channel off topic 🙂

[urban latch]

What is burst dps. Can I get your understanding of that term?

[violet juniper]

you calculate by taking the average number

if there is bias in your results, you take an average. this is basic Key Stage 2 science dude

[meager fog]

Your very own post does not take an average into account.

You're now contradicting yourself in an attempt to be correct.

[urban latch]

No ....

[meager fog]

Maths.....not science.....

[urban latch]

@meager fog ☝️

[meager fog]

Damage over a short period, Burst DPS is even more subject to arbitration.

Can that number be GUARANTEED over a long period? IE, will all Bursts be the same number? (The answer is no)

[violet juniper]

burst DPS, over a long period?

reread that for me

[urban latch]

Ok, so your not understanding what DPS is. There is no duration to it. It is a rate like velocity, like how fast a car is moving mph does not indicate any length of time passing

[cerulean smelt]

yeah, that made me chuckle
like um burst and long period in one definition?

[meager fog]

Burst DPS happens several times over a long period.

This is very simple.

How many times over that period will the burst damage match the rate you calculate using objective calculations?

[violet juniper]

Don't get me started lmao

I genuinely cannot debate with this amount of misunderstanding

[meager fog]

How else are you going to take an average?

[urban latch]

You are fundamentally misunderstanding what DPS is....

[shut wing]

What is in your opinions the best EB build?

[meager fog]

Fundamentally misunderstanding basic mathematics is an issue.

[fair dragon]

Define "best"

[violet juniper]

One without EB

[shut wing]

Highest DPS, sorry

[violet juniper]

it's an ok gun. but any build you could use with EB, would be better with another AR

[cerulean smelt]

i'd say at this point let Dorky live in their perfect world and if they're wrong and don't know it then it's all on them if they come back and ask "hey why?"

[fair dragon]

If basic mathematics entails knowing what arbitration even means, then maybe i know less than nothing

[violet juniper]

it's semantics, dw

[violet juniper]

all roads lead to striker

[meager fog]

From that comment alone, you obviously didn't read the conversation

[violet juniper]

highest possible damage numbers is Sacrifice+ Prov Vigi striker

is it comfortable or particularly fun to play? Not really, but I'm biased

[cerulean smelt]

looked at the begining and it just seems you're just arguing for arguing sake obviously

[meager fog]

Nope, again, it's helpful to read the conversation properly.

[urban latch]

DPS is the rate of damage. It is a simplification, not taking into account every single factor, but that is useful in order to compare various things. That does not however mean it's "arbitrary" since that word has a completely different meaning.

Think of DPS as a rate like the speed of a car going "70 miles an hour". If it travels at that rate for exactly an hour it would travel 70 miles, but saying "well stoplights exist so it's speed will change" is not the point. The speed in that moment is 70 mph, a rate of distance it's traveling per period of time.

DPS is an "arbitrary" as velocity or any other rate we want to talk about.

[hollow rampart]

whats a good solo dz build

[cerulean smelt]

think the spreadsheet in the pins here under builds has a document for PVP builds

[cerulean smelt]

i'm always saying this but so far most popular one i hear of is an Armor Regen with catharsis, headshot bighorn build of some sort. heard the headshot can go either armor regen or Hazard Protection

[hollow rampart]

dont have bighorn and dont know how to get it

[cerulean smelt]

easiest consistent way of getting is floor 10 summit on legendary
run 1-10 on normal, at 10th floor don't leave elevator, travel to lobby swap difficulty to legendary, then go back, spawn the named enemy(ies in case you go a higher 10th floor for multiple), leave at least 1 normal enemy loot named, travel back to lobby and repeat

seriously though, check the pins spreadsheet it's another document for PVP builds
i just said the most popular one......

[hearty owl]

this chat is fiesty today isn’t it 😈

[subtle bluff]

You missed the other one last night.

[hearty owl]

too invested in destiny rn anyways 😦 i will make my return soon..

I WILL BRING ORDER TO ALL BUILD CHATS

[merry nest]

Best SMG build for PVE?

[cerulean smelt]

gearset wise, Hunter's Fury has SMG damage and Shotgun Damage built in

[noble star]

For marksman rifle builds, is it better to go with hsd or chc/chd?

[stark flicker]

which is a better skill combo for when tinkerer drops sadist/pressure point or sadist/vindictive

[cerulean smelt]

on going directive build?

[stark flicker]

yeah

[stark flicker]

hsd unless you're using nem

[subtle bluff]

Even then.

[noble star]

I’d say vindicative but if the weapons using sadist it’s better to be using perfect sadist

[stark flicker]

perfect sadist is incompatible with tinkerer

[cerulean smelt]

tinkeer mask wants non perfect/exotic talents so your suggestion isn't good (> <)

[subtle bluff]

There’s isn’t a best overall. Strikers and HF the ones that works best with SMG

[cobalt lodge]

Best armor Regen build with the chameleon

[cerulean smelt]

i'd have to log in and check, isn't vindictive an SMG only talent? or did they add it to others as well?

[subtle bluff]

PvE Regen isn’t good.

[stark flicker]

okay doing the math and with vindictive if I run mini reflex sight, laser pointer, 7.62 muzzle brake and chc minor I only need 1 chc minor that isn't tinkerer for max

[cerulean smelt]

oh it's an all weapons thing. nice

[stark flicker]

according to the spreadsheet it's universal

[cobalt lodge]

I was trying to do pvp with it but t I can't find a good pvp armor Regen build that works with the chameleon

[subtle bluff]

The P version is SMG

[subtle bluff]

Next time more context helps

Chameleon PvP wouldn’t be good you’re never gonna active the talent quick enough for it to be good.

[stark flicker]

yeah but the spreadsheet says it's a 16% chc for non-perfect

I don't need 21 chc I have to run 2 minors on my backpack anyway

sadist/vindictive od build I made https://mxswat.github.io/mx-division-builds/#/GwFgtATGDMYIyXsAHGADOzHtawLjgE5FYEoIocrcq8JgZMywB2a9m9PFxjBDgTTpRYfToPbDe8cbMnBSkHgFZIGZVGSrJy0THAT8hgXjSm5Ri9iA

[subtle bluff]

Dunno the context but Vindictive isn’t good really. We only use in a speedrun strat.

[cerulean smelt]

what you listed there isn't going to work for it

oh wait, maybe i read it wrong
m60 is LMG still right? think i was thinking it was a Rifle or MMR

i'd personally would go 2 ars/smgs but i think depending on the rifles those would work as well

so you want 38% chance to do critical hits and ahve 141% damage in your build?

[stark flicker]

m60 is an lmg

[hoary valve]

i hear the pestilence is a good build but idk what run it with rn running it with striker but idk if thats good or not

[stark flicker]

if you scroll down the negev has 46.5% chc base boosted to 62.5% with vindictive active

[subtle bluff]

It’s not a build you want to farm.

[solar sable]

unicorn lengmo pieces 😵‍💫

[subtle bluff]

Just use a Orbit with DCH it’s a better

[cerulean smelt]

FYI: even though striker increases your weapon damage, that stack doesn't increase your Pestilience tick damage at all for some odd reason

[stark flicker]

that defeats the entire purpose of using tinkerer

[subtle bluff]

Not really..

Just adds on to it

[stark flicker]

what does dch stand for?

[cerulean smelt]

i usually only look at this part 22% chance then you add vindictive 16% = 38% chance

[subtle bluff]

Dodge City Holster

[hoary valve]

so just play count down right?

[subtle bluff]

But you’re looking piece with CHC+CHD already since you need to reroll the cores

[stark flicker]

why would I want to run a build that uses only existing pieces when I stated it's building for tinkerer

[subtle bluff]

More DPS?

TBF I haven’t look at your build

[stark flicker]

well in that case I should just run 4 piece striker's with coyote and elmo and completely switch away from od with lmg

[cerulean smelt]

is 9.5 the highest a LMG can get?

[stark flicker]

9.5%chc is the cap for minor

it goes up to 21% as a core on smg's

[subtle bluff]

Tinker is gonna mix stuff up but you have to remember what we have already

[stark flicker]

why give feedback if you don't even know what I'm running?

[subtle bluff]

OD Sadist and Pressure point/measured/killer is good

[merry nest]

I'm trying to find something a lil different been using striker for a good while now.

[subtle bluff]

HF then go

[subtle bluff]

Just talking about the talent now.

[fiery gust]

I really dislike OD lol. Something about it.

[subtle bluff]

It’s great no stacking and a bunch of burst off the bat.

[merry nest]

What other pieces to use with a 4 striker or HF?

[fiery gust]

I tried it on a 3rd character and it's soooooo much worse than Striker. I can't even justify running it.

[subtle bluff]

It’s not for you then

[stark flicker]

the biggest caveat od has is you need a bigger mag to make good use of it 30/40 round mags don't make good use of it

[cerulean smelt]

either that site is bad at calculating things
when i add up the LMG chc including mods + your 22 on gear then you get vindictive you're clearly over 60% chc

[stark flicker]

it calculates without adding any abilities

[subtle bluff]

Not a bigger mag just weapon that has a big enough mag dmg

[stark flicker]

it's 46.5% chc before any modifiers

[gentle lichen]

For teammates sure half of a 40-50 is bad but whole mag by yourself with today's damage numbers is more than enough

[subtle bluff]

Well issues is we haven’t updated the base WD yet.

[fiery gust]

I make it a point not to run janky things, though. The builds that just work are entirely better. Not going to jump through hoops to get similar damage lol.

[subtle bluff]

I was doing it…. And my eyes couldn’t do it anymore

[gentle lichen]

Tinker should also change how od would be utilised since you could do 2 amps with it

[stark flicker]

or updated a lot of the skills like the status skills (barring thunder strike) still say 20% when most were updated to 30%

[violet juniper]

I don't think I need any more amp damage

[cerulean smelt]

was about to ask "what are elemental skills"?

[subtle bluff]

……

[subtle bluff]

What talent is this?

Sadist?

[stark flicker]

I'm used to calling them elemental bc destiny 2 has a lot of similar skills

[fiery gust]

Sadist I think. Yea.

[subtle bluff]

Brb I’ll go fix it but I was sure we updated it

[cerulean smelt]

you clearly put in Elemental skills first before you corrected to status, but keep trying. talents would be the correct term here as skills are a thing in dvi 2

[gentle lichen]

This + pressure point should be a decent combo to do + tinker

[stark flicker]

never said I didn't edit it just explaining the confusion

[stark flicker]

honestly vindictive frees up a lot of minors giving a lot more than a 27% damage bonus

[cerulean smelt]

no i'm just saying before you edited this you clearly had Elemental Skills in there, notice (edited at end) now it says status skills

[subtle bluff]

Fixed both normal and p. Version

[gentle lichen]

• cc and cd? It would require you to build under 50 cc to make full use

And i'd rather an amplifier personally rather than cd

[cerulean smelt]

though, asking now without actually having the item is still rough to make a judgement honestly

[violet juniper]

This is old old

[stark flicker]

I am actively on the website

[subtle bluff]

Give us a break.

[violet juniper]

in game screenshot

[subtle bluff]

I don’t read everything on the site so I miss stuff all the time

[cerulean smelt]

since you're using LMG, couldn't a Sadist + Frenzy be an interesting combo?

[gentle lichen]

With how ridiculously simple building is in here it's not hard to brainstorm something way before it's out

[violet juniper]

most people will be boring and use pressure point.

[subtle bluff]

I just updated it!

[stark flicker]

yeah but I actually wanted to try frenzy plus optimist

I feel like it'd work well in an umbra build

[violet juniper]

Give division players a gear piece with unlimited combinations and they'll choose the most boring thing every time

[subtle bluff]

Killer IMO

[violet juniper]

guarantee killer/strained will be the only combo you'll see used

[cerulean smelt]

depends on the combos though?
like me i'm thinking a Handbasket Determined and Something combo as it doesn't have a Perfect talent tied to it so it worked in PTS but that can change so i stopped thinking of combos with it

[stark flicker]

strained/killer could be good

[cerulean smelt]

O_O 2 negiv umbra?

[stark flicker]

lmao self fulfilling prophecy

[cerulean smelt]

so true

[subtle bluff]

There’s a discord if you wanna help report stuff that’d be helpful!

[violet juniper]

NEWEST game BREAKING OP build! better than Backfire! 500% crit damage!

[gentle lichen]

Wouldn't say it would discount what you already thought of. Either it'd be lower or on par

[violet juniper]

and it's just 4pc striker with tinkerer instead of coyote mask

[gentle lichen]

But that's all assuming you use the mask. If you take it out and run 1 talent + another exotic that's a different thing since that would expand

[fiery gust]

If that's what's good, that's what's good lol. Can't change the facts just because you don't like them. XD

[violet juniper]

....

[cerulean smelt]

@gentle lichen i'm just saying PTS we could use 2 lexingtons in it with 2 different talents
mask clearly stated named and exotics are excluded but the combos that didn't work were the named with perfect talents on it where as the lexington, mop, handbasket all were usable with it
far as i would know they can change and add those to the "named list"

[violet juniper]

if you actually thought for a second you'd realise it's blatant satire

[gentle lichen]

I guess they'd need to specifically mention named with a perfect talent

[violet juniper]

exotics and perfect talents don't work with tinkerer

[gentle lichen]

But if it's a non perfect mailable talent there won't be an issue which is what i assume

[fiery gust]

Either way. Running something entirely objectively worse makes no sense lol.

[violet juniper]

the statistical best build in game is PGC+Vigi striker

[fiery gust]

I'll use what's best because it's the best. I'm not trying to defy the devs and game to prove a point.

[violet juniper]

do you use that build?

[fiery gust]

Vigilance is not the best.

[stark flicker]

here's what I'd think to run for that build https://mxswat.github.io/mx-division-builds/#/GwFgtATGDMYIyXsAHGADOzHtawLhUVgSjgE5ccrK8BWcKDE+CC69mkYGTBD-zgHYeTSmIFo8IcLFETx+CLVrwEqOIQgZaUZCvZ1ZSBQfn8CeM+ksmsQA

[fiery gust]

Not sure where you got that from.

[cerulean smelt]

i prefer the high end variant

[violet juniper]

it's the mathetical best, this has been proven by multiple sources.

[fiery gust]

????

[violet juniper]

I thought you only used the best?

[fiery gust]

The math doesn't even show that lmao.

[stark flicker]

unstoppable force stacks multiply with themself giving around 2.5% more than vigi

[violet juniper]

Then why isn't it in the spreadsheets as the best possible build?

[stark flicker]

the spreadsheet isn't always 100% up to date

[violet juniper]

my original point is that using what's meta or the best possible option is boring as hell

division already has this problem with 90% of the player base using the same copy paste striker build

what's the point of having unlimited build variety, and all these cool gear pieces if nobody uses any of it?

bugger the meta, use whats fun

[stark flicker]

honestly the only striker build I like is 4pc bp with braced chest piece centurion's scabbard and your choice of huntsman or one of the perfect stabilize guns

I use huntsman or a negev with frenzy mostly

gives a quick stack for striker's gamble with a stupid amt of fire rate

[cerulean smelt]

if you're solo sure, but you might not even get that many kills in a group setting
vigilence as long as you don't get hit is an up front damage with no stacking or killing to get

[stark flicker]

that guy was going abt mathematically and I was just showing mathematically speaking uf is better

obv math vs practicality is different

[subtle bluff]

What the math is going on here..

I'm in traffic and seeing all this...

[cerulean smelt]

we were going on about tinkerer OD possibilities then somehow went into a math battle between Vigilence and Unstoppable force

[stark flicker]

doing the math it comes out to a 93% buff in damage and fire rate for 9 seconds

[violet juniper]

why not use a Stoner?

[stark flicker]

stoner and gr9 have the same base mag size but gr9 has higher base fire rate

[subtle bluff]

Ok GC and Vigilance is the best mix of Upfront dmg and peak dmg.

[stark flicker]

750 vs 580

[violet juniper]

Stoner also has massively more damage

It proper chugs along but it's got the damage to make up for it

[stark flicker]

oh yeah looking it's 12.4mil per mag with stoner and 9.8 mil per mag with gr9

[noble star]

Isn’t the advantage of the gr9 that it has the biggest mag in the game?

[stark flicker]

it's equal to stoner at 200

[subtle bluff]

I've said this before already. We haven't updated the Base WD from TU22.

[stark flicker]

this is per the spreadsheet not the build tool

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nrPBmOrtpkEW1j5fbcRT7L-AXgsGOqMqxXoVtopsiGM/edit?pli=1&gid=0#gid=0

[subtle bluff]

Oh ok

Ya gearsheet has been updated

[stark flicker]

Imma run gr9 for now tho bc I don't have the bp for stoner

[cerulean smelt]

i thought Negev was the fastest shooting LMG? it sounds fast to me anyways

[violet juniper]

I think it's Bluescreen

IWI or bluescreen

[noble star]

Bluescreens stats are different from the regular stoner?

[subtle bluff]

The mods change it

[violet juniper]

very

[subtle bluff]

All exotics stats come from there base weapon just the exotic mods can change a lot.

[violet juniper]

It's got a handling buff, reload speed buff, and a rate of fire buff

[violet juniper]

technically it's Bullet King

since the mag is the size of your ammo capacity

[solar sable]

is the dps build in the room with us?

[odd ginkgo]

That's gone beyond a tweaked DPS build and is sitting within the range of a tweaked tank build.

[cerulean smelt]

i'd feel if you dropped the ninja bag, went foundry mask and Uzina Setup would probably give you some serious damage if you like that scorpio

[subtle bluff]

“tank”

[cerulean smelt]

you'd have to main scorpio though sicnce it's 9 hit shots increases yours and your teams damage + the setup backpack i mentioned has Perfect Oppportunistic which significally increases the damage even more with scorpio

the talent you'd have to use Shotguns or MMRs

yeah, read the talent

kind of? you'd have to farm with the 2 attributes with whatever you wanted on it then change the core to weapon or armor as you see fit

it looks fun O_O

trust me i know what you mean
thanks to localdeck i'm slowly workign on a different hybrid build still but it is pretty fun for me (> <)

[subtle bluff]

Wait till you change your Chest talent

[cerulean smelt]

it can work, but Hot Shot gear set is probably better with it's talent over a few good hard hitting shots from aces and eights

[subtle bluff]

I hate chance when we already have Crit Chance...

[quasi crescent]

whats the best way to build the nemesis or go to build?

[cerulean smelt]

if you're asking about crafting the nemesis it'd require extreme patience
basically before manning became a strong hold it was just 3 weeks to get each piece needed to craft it, but manning gives random pieces so you'd have to guess which piece you'd need invaded to obtain and the longer wait is if grand washington hotel wasn't invaded when you could've gotten 2 pieces to obtain the blueprint you'd wait a long time for it

[quasi crescent]

no a build for it i have the gun

im just trying to figure out a build for pve or something

[cerulean smelt]

check the pinned messages for a build spreadsheet and see waht they have for it?

[hexed steppe]

i kinda love bluescreen ngl

nvm, that was 3 hrs ago...🤦‍♂️

-# Senility mode active

[solar sable]

unknown

[hexed steppe]

wtf was that 😂

[cerulean smelt]

something i definitely didn't want to click on

[hexed steppe]

better

[sudden cloak]

Lol

[hexed steppe]

go grupo instead of dh mask if focusing crits

[solar sable]

that happens when a channel from a private/invite only server is shared

[solar sable]

nothing suspicious, it just shows an error message when clicked

[hexed steppe]

are you just plugging builds or looking for feedback

[tepid acorn]

just plugging builds for raid

[sudden cloak]

[hexed steppe]

ok not needed. post em when asked for

do one post with all screenshots and call it

[tepid acorn]

im in a raid they was askin for it

@hexed steppe

[hexed steppe]

post the images in 1 post... then call it

all im asking

[cerulean smelt]

there's #td2-raid-discussions channel, dunno if posting pictures in there is a thing though, can't imagine why not

[tepid acorn]

im just tryin to help

[hexed steppe]

or pm, is your teamate even in this discord?

[tepid acorn]

psn chat

[hexed steppe]

so how are they gonna see it here

im trying to help too 😉

[tepid acorn]

can u look at lfg raid console chat

[sudden cloak]

You can put the build on yourself in game and have them inspect you

Problem solved, or simply add them to the discord you're in

[hexed steppe]

are they in this server... if so make a post with their @name and post the images in one post. that way you get the info to someone and it isnt random spammed images with no contect

no issues with helping. but it appeared like spam with just a bunch of images going up

[tepid acorn]

i see u never say someone invite me to a raid

[hexed steppe]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/17Ir5SAkegswOeXIpnreeiES1pFE-Vw6F2xQnUmf3s-Q/edit?tab=t.0
raid builds list from the pinned sheet

[tepid acorn]

alot of FTC in here that need help im just posting to help them since there is no channel for them

[hexed steppe]

click that link i just posted

[sudden cloak]

[hexed steppe]

its available in the pins. spreadsheet 2

[cerulean smelt]

you've still never answered "does the people you're posting pictures for in this discord?" you said PSN chat so how are they to see those pictures if they're not in this specific discord?

[tepid acorn]

they are from this discord brother thats how they going to see it

[hexed steppe]

@tepid acorn this is how you let them see it 👈

[cerulean smelt]

ok so why when local deck ask you if htey're in this discord you responded "psn chat"?#td2-build-advice message

[hexed steppe]

add their name, post your images, 1 post and youre good

[tepid acorn]

because you can see the person that added me to the raid that needed help

[hexed steppe]

there are a lot of resources in this channels pins so feel free to direct people there as well . heart is in the right place 💯

[tepid acorn]

thank you and you understand must raid discord like little huge gaming and crash ya crew got the pic for build for info purpose

[soft apex]

Would breaking point work with an M1A since it's a rifle based gear set?

Or is Ongoing directive a better choice?

[violet juniper]

Breaking Point is not a good gear set

[subtle bluff]

OD is better by a mile

[violet juniper]

OD or high end is probably your best bet

[soft apex]

Ok I just figured I'd ask since I saw breaking point is like solely based around MMR and rifles.

[violet juniper]

you can try Virtuoso? I find it's really good if you do use rifles

[subtle bluff]

It's bad

[soft apex]

Cause I was given a OD set up but I wanted to check first before going all in on it. I'm about to farm countdown for it.

[violet juniper]

read the talent description. The buff is only noticeable if you use a big mag rifle

even then, it's still a shockingly bad set

[soft apex]

Oh yeah that's not great especially since most rifles that do good damage have smaller magazines.

[subtle bluff]

OD is good just trust

[soft apex]

I do trust don't worry. I just wanted to check if there were any others I should check out before doing OD.

Getting into a challenging countdown. Here's to hoping it goes well.

What's orbit?

Is that a handgun?

[odd ginkgo]

Negotiator's Dilemma standard build can work with Rifles too.

[odd ginkgo]

Yes

[soft apex]

I just looked at the picture I was sent. I don't think someone knew what attachments should go on the gun. Cause it says to put a oversized .45 ACP on a UIC MOD2

[cerulean smelt]

DZ exclusve pistol magnum model i think?

[lone wadi]

ye and named caches ofc w perf. finisher

[soft apex]

With an OD build should I use a jammer pulse or a banshee pulse I was told to use a banshee I think

[cerulean smelt]

i used bluescreen for my OD build was hilarious

[lone wadi]

either or

foam may be good too

[odd ginkgo]

Banshee does confuse, Jammer does disrupt.

[cerulean smelt]

you just need a status effect on enemy then kill htem with status on it then you'll have nearly infinite hollow point bullets

[lone wadi]

when you reload with hollowpoint bullets does that take ammo from your mag reserve

[odd ginkgo]

No

[violet juniper]

Run the Sleigher

[lone wadi]

oh neat

[odd ginkgo]

Status effect ammo is free ammo. Always.

[violet juniper]

inflicts style points as well as disorient

[cerulean smelt]

imagine shooting your teammate gives you and your team hollow points with cooler lol

[odd ginkgo]

That would be fun!

[violet juniper]

cooler with hollow points

is that water laced with micro plastics or something

[odd ginkgo]

Cooler should just shoot blood.

It would cause anyone that gets hit by it to get a blood borne disease and die a month later.

[violet juniper]

weapon talent : rabies

[cerulean smelt]

no this would be better, you shoot them and they get a disease, they have to melee someone to pass it along

[violet juniper]

make it stronger the more people you pass it to

chain scale a disease on incursion then one shot the lovebirds with super rabies

[odd ginkgo]

Is that rabies but with little capes?

[violet juniper]

yeah it can fly

[cerulean smelt]

why not that hot room boss?

[violet juniper]

He's too hot for rabies

Probably already got it, the way he chased my ass around that room

[cerulean smelt]

could you imagine that room if they got the artists permission to have "it's getting to hot in here" playing that whole encounter?

[violet juniper]

fine and dandy until wright starts taking his clothes off

he's just wearing kevlar underpants that are still on fire

[soft apex]

True patriots isn't good right?

[violet juniper]

It's comfortably meh

I had some fun using all red with coyote and pestilence as a weird kind of debuff build

[odd ginkgo]

That reminds me of the George Clinton and the Parliament Funkadelic collab with a bunch of artists in the 90s. I think the song was Buck Naked.

[cerulean smelt]

wonder what a skill tier true patriot build with smartcover and ironlong would be like 🤔

[soft apex]

I was told to use this

[violet juniper]

yeah that's good

[soft apex]

Ok but I did notice some of the gun attachments don't make sense.

[cerulean smelt]

not much of a rifle user but it does look solid

[violet juniper]

I personally use Coyote mask to further the "group DPS" kinda aesthetic

[soft apex]

I don't have coyote.

[violet juniper]

such as?

[soft apex]

Oversized .45 ACP mag on a UIC MOD2 and extended 9mm mag on an M1A CQB

[odd ginkgo]

That build will work fine then. Coyote's is slightly better, but you are getting DTA and Rifle Damage from Fox's Prayer.

[soft apex]

Ones a 5.56 gun and the others a .308/7.62x51

Ok cool

[violet juniper]

that's just the names

I thought you meant what the attachments do lmao

[cerulean smelt]

that was my thought as well, was going to comment well, you're trying to reach a 50% chc and those help it?

[soft apex]

Well the attachment descriptions are wrong too. But I get the general jist of it. Extended mags for both, muzzle brakes for the crit chance, etc.

[odd ginkgo]

The mods have names that suggest a particular caliber, but work across multiple calibers.

[violet juniper]

to be fair, I wouldn't worry too much about inaccuracies. One of the rifles has a snake wrapped around it

[soft apex]

And it's not a real diamondback!!

Just had to throw that one in there.

[violet juniper]

He'll call it whatever the hell he wants!

[odd ginkgo]

The Diamondback, but it's a cobra wrapped around it.

[violet juniper]

I love that gun

[odd ginkgo]

Same

[soft apex]

And none of the masks had crit damage as a roll. Just crit chance.

[odd ginkgo]

You can change that with reconfigure, if you have CHD in your library.

[soft apex]

I do. 12%

[violet juniper]

Whack it on

[soft apex]

Ok done

Crit damage for the chest right?

[cerulean smelt]

My favorite people who gets technical with those names and I'm like uh what are the brand gear name?

[violet juniper]

yeah I wish Overlord Armaments existed IRL so I could edgelord over my friends

[violet juniper]

Some of the brands actually sound like they'd exist irl

[hazy steeple]

One does.

[violet juniper]

the only one that does as far as I know is 5.11

[cerulean smelt]

They probably do, I'm not a fanatic in that are so I honestly wouldn't know

[lost wren]

walker and harris is sort of a play on heckler and koch

[violet juniper]

I used to have a 5.11 bag, it held up for years lmao

[cerulean smelt]

Nemesis right?

[hazy steeple]

Yes, the railgun exists IRL.

[violet juniper]

Heckler and Koch is a gun brand though

[lost wren]

it is but you can’t lie that there is some relation there

[violet juniper]

Probably does in some test facility somewhere. We've already got the robo dogs

[hazy steeple]

The only brands to actually exist IRL are 5.11, as that's a persistent tie-in with Ubisoft, you can see it in some of the Ghost Recon games as well.

[cerulean smelt]

I believe Isaac and Anna exists too as ai

[hazy steeple]

You got both of their names wrong, that's impressive.

[violet juniper]

Ghost Recon goes quite heavy handed with product placement unfortunately

[hazy steeple]

It's ISAC and ANNA. They're acronyms.

[cerulean smelt]

Probably a rivens been developed as well

[lost wren]

isac my goat

[cerulean smelt]

Hate spell check sometimes

[hazy steeple]

Unfortunately, I own the copyright on Rivens, and Ubi haven't made me any offers yet. Fingers crossed!

[stark flicker]

supposedly isac is based on a CALO being designed by darpa

[hazy steeple]

ISAC is based on a speak+spell.

[cerulean smelt]

Maybe div 3, third watch we carry

[lost wren]

div 3 in 2035

[stark flicker]

I think it'd be neat if they added exotics to div 2 with similar effects to the ultimate skills from div 1

[violet juniper]

no it's pesti. Poop bullets were a Vietnam war tactic lmao

[soft apex]

It gave me the bag with wicked but 2 yellow cores

[hazy steeple]

Unfortunately I can't voice an AI, but I'm willing to do the motion-capture for the Cortana-like assistant.
Ashley Johnson can voice me.

[violet juniper]

They should add Rambo type traps as an agent skill

[cerulean smelt]

Should they have your ai always hitting an anna?

[odd ginkgo]

Div3 in the year 2525.
If man is still alive.
If woman has survived.
They may find.

In the year 3535.
Ain't gonna need to tell the truth, tell no lies.
Everything you think, do, and say
Is in the pill you took today.

[hazy steeple]

And just in time for humanity to be ruled by giraffes.

[violet juniper]

don't forget to take your Joy!

someone get that reference

[hazy steeple]

If people missed mine, they're definitely gonna miss yours.

[cerulean smelt]

not me unfortunately. i'm too dumb to know it

[cerulean smelt]

yours went over my head but i was thinking of a book series my old crush got me to read "The Others"

[hazy steeple]

nah, futurama.

[soft apex]

I got everything. Just need a protocol that's good for my bag now.

I'm trying for a high crit chance.

At least 3 percent

[hazy steeple]

@soft apex Remember that there's a hard-cap of 60% total.

[soft apex]

Ok 👌

[odd ginkgo]

I for one would like to welcome our new Giraffe overlords.

[soft apex]

Actually let me check. My crit chance is 44.3 percent and my crit damage is 130.3 percent. Wow.

[cerulean smelt]

in the others series animals takes over the world keeping humans in check but also still running human businesses

[soft apex]

I can raise the crit chance over time once I get other things to raise their whatever you call it with the tinkering bench

[violet juniper]

Man must pay for his misdeeds when the trees are stripped of their leaves

[hazy steeple]

You will also get a free 10% from the Watch, if you don't have that already, and 20% chd from it

[soft apex]

Truuuueeee

What skills should I use with OD?

[subtle bluff]

Something that help you start OD like Banshee Pulse, Riot Foam Launcher etc then w/e really

[odd ginkgo]

Something that can apply Status Effects, to help get the bleed ammo flowing.

[violet juniper]

honestly, decoy and a revive hive. skip one of the rifles out and use Scorpio instead

[soft apex]

I can switch my huntsman for Scorpio.

[odd ginkgo]

Just remember that you have to do weapon damage to the NPC and have a status effect you applied on the NPC when they die.

[soft apex]

Yeah I have sadist on my M1A CQB

[odd ginkgo]

The weapon doesn't have to apply the status effect, but sadist will help get the bleed ammo machine started.

[violet juniper]

You can also put sadist on the Scorpio and get another status effect

not sadist, the hollow points. my bad

[odd ginkgo]

You could shoot a gas can that is nearby the NPC, the NPC catches fire, you down then with a few shots from your weapon. Bleed ammo is dropped into your ammo pool.

[soft apex]

Yuh

I just wanted a build that lets me use my favorite family of guns. The M1A. And was told that OD is the way to go.

[odd ginkgo]

Yeah, Scorpio is a decent option. It does some Crowd Control. A weapon with Sadist will do more damage once you have bleed ammo flowing though.

[soft apex]

I like M14s :]

[odd ginkgo]

As do I.

[soft apex]

I would really like to see an EBR variant added in division 3 (if it ever sees daylight)

[odd ginkgo]

I like a nice punchy semi-auto rifle in most games.

[soft apex]

I'm kinda perplexed an EBR variant isn't in the game. It's one of the most popular variations in video games. They are sold to civilians too. But more as a sniper rifle than a battle rifle.

[violet juniper]

Get me a musket already

I would, as a Brit, love the L85/L86 to make an appearance as an AR

[cerulean smelt]

exotic musket "when it's used with True Patriot the armor cores are consider weapon damage" (> <)

[shy willow]

Yeah OD and high end are the two main routes for rifles

[soft apex]

Oki doki

[soft apex]

Pretty sure ones a machine gun but I'm not sure if one appears as an AR

[violet juniper]

yeah the L86A2

I like the old behind the mag grip too

[odd ginkgo]

@soft apex Negotiator's Dilemma can also work for rifles, but I think OD does more damage.

[violet juniper]

Virtuoso is surprisingly good too

plus 80% if you use chest

[shy willow]

ND is also another good option yeah

Imo throw virtuoso and breaking point in the bin

[violet juniper]

virtuoso is better than breaking point

breaking point and hotshot should go in the bin

[subtle bluff]

Don’t listen to any of these ppl.. Just go OD.

[violet juniper]

go improvised

and NBB so you get that all round coverage

[soft apex]

I wish the EBR was the exotic M1A but they decided on doctor home...........cooler is nice though. Very funny.

[violet juniper]

I never see doctor home. Funky looking gun

[subtle bluff]

I have a funny Doc Home support thing that works well once you get up there.

[shy willow]

There's a build using doctor home but it's pretty broken

[violet juniper]

The forced scope kills it imo

throws me off when I use it

[subtle bluff]

I mean you would still do OK dmg and heal people not bad.

[shy willow]

Need to do more testing with blue FI in countdown tbh

In the range I was getting enough heals off a kit to top up DPS players

[lone wadi]

blue... fi?

oh

why not just use red fi and you do the same thing wit efficient

[soft apex]

Can I use any of the M1As with OD or does it have to be the CQB specifically?

[subtle bluff]

Try them both out.

[hexed steppe]

cqb has better mods

better dps compared to others as well

[subtle bluff]

Pretty sure it's not a big difference

[hexed steppe]

what are the better big mag rifle options?

[coral reef]

Just checking, those unicorn Lengmo pieces with chc/chd at the same time, do exist right? They can theoretically spawn

[hexed steppe]

cause thats kinda the only downside i see with any m1a on od

[subtle bluff]

M1a has a bigger base WD iirc

[hexed steppe]

yeah, i knew that. but out of the larger mag rifles what have you found works well? i know ive seen a couple on you ss before, iirc

[subtle bluff]

This is hard to do on mobile.

[hexed steppe]

dw too much on it. this is pretty good

[subtle bluff]

Imo mag dmg is kind of important with OD to ensure you still have OD rounds left.

[soft apex]

Oh my gosh the damage on this build is insane

[hexed steppe]

yeah no doubt. its one of those sets that buffs anything which is cool

[soft apex]

I think this has better damage output than the striker build I was running. Every other shot is just 1.1 Million crit damage

[hexed steppe]

@subtle bluff got himself another convert 🍻

[subtle bluff]

Only because you don't need to stack. You get all the amp up front.

[wispy hollow]

As long as you have the OD ammo. Once you run out of it, then Striker is better

[hexed steppe]

i know my lmg setup does similar to what i see on a normal striker as well

[soft apex]

I killed 2 challenging bounty bosses back to back in 4 shots each.

[subtle bluff]

I mean I've pushed the OD from the start of TU22

[hexed steppe]

rifle od convert*

od goated since the buff tho

[subtle bluff]

Aah. True.

[soft apex]

This feels better than striker. Although striker is just pure DPS and I much prefer the methodical doinkage of rifles over ARs or SMGs.

[subtle bluff]

I use to run it with a glass cannon before the buff and did nearly the same dmg just have to deal with GC

[soft apex]

I don't get a lot of short range for Scorpio though. They never get close enough >:]

Also cause like I run away if they do.

[subtle bluff]

Strikers is just more reliable.

[soft apex]

Just like an actual hunter : D

[hexed steppe]

i still love bluescreen on mine. infinite emp sticky proccing the talent every 3 seconds kinda negates lmg supression since they stagger a lot

[wispy hollow]

Wait till Tinkerer comes out then you run one rifle with Sadist and the other with Pressure Point

[soft apex]

I'm using sadist on my CQB

[subtle bluff]

Pressure point imo isn't going the way imo

[soft apex]

What's pressure point?

[hexed steppe]

smaller amp to status

[wispy hollow]

Then Boomerang, Rifleman, Flatline ?

[subtle bluff]

Killer

60 CHD isn't small

Right 60? 80 is P.

[wispy hollow]

Its 70% and P is 90%

[subtle bluff]

Derp. This is with Killer and striker just imagine.

[wispy hollow]

So according to this, Sadist + Killer for OD builds and a combination of any two talents (Streamline, Flatline, Strained, Killer, Optimist, Measure, Fast Hands) for Striker or all red DPS build ?

[subtle bluff]

I mean If I was OD with both I wouldn't need a ramp.

Strikers IDK yet tbh. Killer and Measured I guess would be my choices

[wispy hollow]

When this exotic comes out, the build varierty is gonna go whack. Every YT video will be out there redefining what is considered a meta.

[subtle bluff]

Ya...

It's gonna hurt me.... again...

I mean it's better than Backfire atleast

Backfire hazpro bs video without showing the seasonal modifier or how to build it right..

[wispy hollow]

Also one thing I realised, running Tinkerer with AR for example, you can potentially have any crap AR (no expertise or re-calibration/optimisation) in your secondary slot with the talent you want and have your primary your best weapon.

[subtle bluff]

Meh. I'll probably run it the same I do now but I like my exo too much for leggo.

[wispy hollow]

Backfire isnt that bad and there are ways to get 100% haz pro without the seasonal modifier.

[subtle bluff]

I know I just don't like it.

It's slow.. could be done better without hazpro

Like some is all you really need

[wispy hollow]

So like this:

GEAR:

• 4 piece Striker including backpack (WD and Haz Pro on all)
• Ceska Mask (WD, Haz Pro, CHD)
• Ceska Chest (WD, CHC, CHD, Obliterate)
• 1x Bleed resistance mod
• 2x CHD Mod

STATS:

• 60% CHC
• 83% CHD
• 100% Bleed Resistant
• 95% Haz Pro

[subtle bluff]

I know how to do build it.

You just don't need it tho.

You bleed immune yourself without hazpro

[solar sable]

What is with these hazpro Backfire builds, chow? See them everywhere

[subtle bluff]

...................................................

[onyx sage]

i made them. thank me later.

[subtle bluff]

you ppl.....

[onyx sage]

you're welcome?

[hexed steppe]

if you dont have hazpro on your chest you can roll another hazpro there , and replace the one bleed resist mod for chd mod and you could be immune to everything with the same chd

[wispy hollow]

Yup that works well too, I don't even run the Striker build. Having fun running this instead.

[hexed steppe]

actually just no resist mod. if you are at 95% then youre already bleed immune

[noble star]

So the exotic triggers both of the talents when using one weapon if both aren’t named weapons?

[wispy hollow]

• Neither weapon should be exotic
• Neither weapon should be named
• Both weapons need to be of the same type (Both AR, both SMG etc)

[fair dragon]

I think as of the PTS, it cannot have Perfect variants of talents, so it doesn't apply to all Named Items

[wispy hollow]

So weapons like First Sight, Lexington, Handbasket etc are fair game ?

[fair dragon]

yeah, during the PTS, Tinkerer works on the White Death and Lexington

[wispy hollow]

Hope that remains the same and doesn't change.

[sudden cloak]

A revised version of a build i previously posted in here

The blue on the holster is armor regen, all the mods are pfe

It's specifically for tidal but works great in the other legendaries except Roosevelt for obvious reasons

[elfin tusk]

Someone can sent good dps build with self healing after kill?

[subtle bluff]

Look up Hunter Fury in the gearsheet

[elfin tusk]

Thx so is another gear with AR gun ?

Hunter fury is good with vector and chatterbox

[subtle bluff]

You can use HF with AR.

[livid sorrel]

what's a good lmg for strikers? planning to use iron lung

[onyx sage]

iron lung works fine with it

[spiral jacinth]

@livid sorrel personally like black friday

[onyx sage]

it's among the better ones to use because it naturally mitigates suppression

[spiral jacinth]

so im running refactor with deflector shield but it doesn't heal i thought deflector shield was dealing skill damage is game broken or my brain

[subtle bluff]

It's not skill dmg. Yea it may think it but it isn't.

[spiral jacinth]

damn

[violet juniper]

NO HAZ PRO

my god.

[violet juniper]

Deflector genuinely sucks

[grizzled garnet]

🤔

What would be a good hotshot setup then?

White death determined and then what?

[thorny kernel]

Backfires bleed is so minimal, my full red striker can use it and I'm not even noticing any armor loss from the bleed. And i only have like 2% hazpro from the watch lol

[grizzled garnet]

From what ive seen and heard at full backfire stacks you dont get bleed anymore

[thorny kernel]

Is that a recent change?

[patent fossil]

If you're not using skills then streamline would be contender, decent buff to max HH stack size

[grizzled garnet]

Do you think it will knock straight hotshot, hh, vigi off top tho?

[patent fossil]

I'm sure I saw somewhere that they were patching tinkerer so that no named items would work, even those with normal talents

[grizzled garnet]

;-;

[patent fossil]

Depends if you need that extra max damage in whatever content you're doing. You'd likely have to lose the hotshot 4pc bonus, which is a nice qol thing to have

Sniper setups are already pretty flexible though, this just gives another possibility

[novel ember]

easy way to get these guys i know about the field recon but the black tusk ?

[patent fossil]

Black tusk bounties, invaded missions, or just craft them if you have the blueprint

[subtle bluff]

Not trying to be rude you need to relook at my FI healer guide for your build FI build. There a reason it's built the way it should be.

[fair dragon]

Determined and Ranger/Streamline if you can't aim
Ranger and Optimist/Streamline if you can aim

[tepid panther]

i'm using bullet king

[tepid panther]

control point complete it reset the global and rerun it

not just it will give you that it will also give you the chance to get the blueprint to craft it which late game you'll want to max everything

[worn elbow]

Fellas I need help what’s the set up for striker with memento I finally got 1

[grizzled garnet]

striker mask, gloves, holster, knees. ceska chest with obliterate. momento. all chd and chc on the chest (you get 2 subattributes)

[worn elbow]

Oh ok thanks

That was simple

[grizzled garnet]

keep in mind that memento leans more towards a solo player

[worn elbow]

Ye ik that’s why it’s my fav exotic gear

[grizzled garnet]

since you need to get kills to stack up memento. if you plan on group play youre probably better off using striker backpack and then coyotes mask

[worn elbow]

Thanks for the info

[grizzled garnet]

🙏

[kindred mango]

Can also go with Exodus gloves instead of Memento. They are pretty solid too

[grizzled garnet]

tbh at face value exodus seems useless but they have pretty interesting mechanics. it takes you out of combat so you can get free armor regen

[kindred mango]

Unbreakable on gloves pretty much yeah

[worn elbow]

Use that with chameleon ar it’s nice

[kindred mango]

And you would gain the chc and chd that you lose with Momo bag

[worn elbow]

Cuz the buffs refresh out of combat

[inner rock]

its fun and all but damn its useless if people dont die :S

[shy willow]

How good it is is inversely proportional to the skill level of your teammates

[inner rock]

50-60k repair drone or unlimited decoy also

[onyx sage]

so if i run skill tier 6 build it makes that one useless?

[shy willow]

Sir

[inner rock]

😳

[onyx sage]

okay sir i run 6 blue now

0 skill tier

[shy willow]

[inner rock]

just use ninjabike with improvised gear

then slot skill haste everywhere but only have shield equipped

[neon iris]

I just came back to the game a couple weeks ago and this is my current build based of the blue screen delima build. I just recently switched from blue screen to iron lung and it seems that's pushed me over the CHC cap so I no longer benefit from the coyotes mask. What other gear piece would work or should I just leave it as is for now?

[cloud sluice]

I have 4 days on td2 and literally have no idea what makes a good build, I want survivability is armour necessary if you have repair skills?

[patent fossil]

Firstly, turn off the season modifier to show your baseline crit chance. If it shows over 55% or so, see if you have any crit chance mods or minor stats you can swap to crit damage. Assuming you're usually about mid range for coyotes, you want about 50-55% chc. Once it's set, reactivate the season modifiers as they actually bypass the chc cap.
If you can't drop your chc to that level, maybe swap ceska for grupo.

[neon iris]

I turned off the modifier, and restarted the game. And it shows me at 58%. I'll try to grind for the grupo chest piece later then.

[slate wedge]

even better because you are hidden for a bit

[slow wyvern]

Don’t want to bother anybody but does anyone know any builds that I can run basically anything that’s heroic solo? I only am able to play after work and usually solo and just need something better than what I’ve been using cause it works but not well

[coral reef]

Hunter's Fury with Memento? And Tech Specialization for 2 yellow cores = good shield. And a good SMG, or Lady Deaty or Ouroboros if you have it.

Here is the build explained in-depth, from The Spreadsheet (TM) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mWk2Jgg8uJX3hkturWAET95gizwVHReoOOayO-ixe6U/edit?tab=t.0 it's really good for heroic solo, just run and gun like a maniac and kill them all

[quasi crescent]

Hey guys i could use some help with a build for ouroboros for pvp/conflict. Not sure if i should be doing like a regen or whats good with this exotic

[meager fog]

Standard Strikers DPS build.

4pc strikers with Coyotes Mask and Ceska Obliterate chest.

Works with pretty much any gun with decent RPM.

[slow wyvern]

You’re a legend thank you

[slow wyvern]

I have a striker build with ceska obliterate, I think I have a coyotes mask in my stash, what kind of cores?

[meager fog]

All red, get CHC as close to 60% as possible then stack crit damage.

[forest trail]

what does ninjabike do with improvised

[onyx sage]

unlocks god mode

[forest trail]

🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

now fr what does it do in terms of stats

[subtle bluff]

Zero

[solar sable]

it adds nothing lol

[mint axle]

It turns you into a ninja and gives you a bike.

[forest trail]

banger

[bright raptor]

you have a Ninjabike backpack on your... back

that's about it

[inner rock]

just make hybrid great again

[frank cloak]

Advice on build tryna have some have nice hybrid type build? 😂ps I just seen -282 headshot wtff??

[subtle bluff]

You have modifier on maybe it’s bug.

So you need to decide for the build either go HSD or Crit not both the same with BH. Remember BH has no Crit mods so you’ll have to spend more on CHC.

[cerulean smelt]

😹 i had that too but it didn't affect my build, kind of wish the - was because it was way too high and the game would just let it happen but alas it's just a visual bug

[subtle bluff]

I really dislike this push everyone is farming BH and not knowing how to build with it.

[frank cloak]

I’m not gunna lie I was playing for gear mods and it randomly drop 😭 I knew lots of people were using it so I just slapped it on

I appreciate the previous advice tho

[subtle bluff]

FAIR. That is actually hilarious to me. How many players are Stresssing needing BH is kind…

[frank cloak]

I was telling my Roomate it’s nutsss I got it on accident

[subtle bluff]

I’ll add one more for ACS12 get brazen on it and use all Accuracy mods on it.

[subtle bluff]

I try to tell players just farm stuff get parts to everything or grind exp for them and stuff will drop. Focusing for one exotics gear is not worth it. Get better with the stuff you can farm easily and the better you will be once you get it!

[cerulean smelt]

just like the whole backfire striker fiasco huh? bring back PTSD?

[inner rock]

is that even hybrid

[inner rock]

this one

[subtle bluff]

Here’s the thing BF is much easier to use IMO where BH that recoil isn’t the nicest once you’re shooting for “AR Ranges”

[subtle bluff]

Yes and no. This is what I like to recommend for people that wanna use HB for a good Dmg still. Good HB is more about it’s playstyle than the build

[cerulean smelt]

lol, i know, i tried it out once since people has been raving over it and complaining "i can't get it though" so i was thinking i bet First Sight could be just as good if not better as it's a bit easier to obtain "loot goblin any difficulty" when the loot is enabled that is

[subtle bluff]

Imo keep it simple learn the basics then start moving up to more complicated things.

[inner rock]

this is what ive been running today

and its actually been working surprisingly well in.... you guessed right... countdown

[cerulean smelt]

maybe i should be running with you so you have a use for it? (> <)

[inner rock]

haha

ive gotten like 5 revives today, everyone just running revive hive

[split plank]

Any recomendations for a true patriot build , seens like a fun set to use

[cerulean smelt]

not really, true patriot just kind of got tossed to the side in favor of new gearsets that just does more

but i'd say don't let that stop you, try a few things, never know some people might've not tried everything with it especailly the newer toys

[vestal ibex]

Yeah when building TP just follow the normal build advice for crit AR centric builds. Ceska/grupo/coyotes obliterate/vigi or PGC, ya know all that type of stuff.

[cerulean smelt]

like it hink i tried a TP oxpecker build once, didn't go as i thought it would've so i destroyed it

[thorny solstice]

Whats going on here...lol

[cerulean smelt]

what do you mean?

[thorny solstice]

64% dttoc...hmm. What am i missing

[cerulean smelt]

still not sure why you're confused about it
you're probably 6 skill tier or close to it? each skil tier if you looked at it shows diffrent amounts for everything from skill tier 0 to 6 including overcahrge

[thorny solstice]

+4%mod

where does 64 come from tho...my math is bad...but not that bad

[cerulean smelt]

maybe a visual bug?

[hoary sail]

Maybe 64% at 0 skill tier. Then 64+27 at 6 skill tier

[cerulean smelt]

hmm, i get the same thing, probably one of those realy odd visual bugs
you've seen the negative headshot ones?

[thorny solstice]

Division being Divisin i guess

OR it secretly really is 64%

😂

[subtle bluff]

uhm?

[cerulean smelt]

build i looked it myself, does the same thing as yours lol

oddly it only shows that when you're modding the skill
you look at it normally and it's the right numbers

[subtle bluff]

modifiers on?

[cerulean smelt]

modiers on or off, just the same numbers when adding the skills mods in

[ocean star]

I've been playing the Division 2 all wrong. Just been running and gunning with weapons with higher damage , along with gear. I want to start getting into builds, but it all looks complicated. Can someone recommend where to look or link to any helpful vids, web forums, or typed out documents?

[worn mango]

iKia and MattGoesBuck would be two YT'ers that are trusted to make actual non click bait garbage. Other than that, go through the spreadsheet we have and look at all the builds and descriptions, see what ones sound interesting

[thorny solstice]

It shows 41% and it really is 41%

just tested and calculated

64% must be overcharge

[cerulean smelt]

if you goto other skills they do the same wierd thing

[thorny solstice]

But math also adds up, just tested in range

[cerulean smelt]

guess again
#td2-build-advice message

[subtle bluff]

buck has being doing just context creating now.

[thorny solstice]

How u explain 41% real world more dmg then, it shows 41% at tier6 without OC and it really is.
It should be 27%+4%mod=31%
Where does another 10% come from ? I even removed dttoc from weapon for testing.
And OC gives in total 49% which is 5,67% over plain tier 6.

Cant complain i guess 😂

[cerulean smelt]

I just play the game

[subtle bluff]

10% is base

[split plank]

power creep at its finest am i right, but i get it the concept realy sold it a bit for me, any good or fun recomendations though, i already have stryker, hunters furry, eclipse and a future iniative one

[thorny solstice]

omg...that thing is OP as fk, jesus

[subtle bluff]

when you OC or have skil tier sure at zero it's not that crazy

Maybe on some builds.

[thorny solstice]

Just for legendary support. Heals+smartcover.

smart cover is too clunky to use for other content...shame it doesnt have quick use option like other skills do.

[inner rock]

it does?

[onyx sage]

it does, just not as convenient as sticky bomb

have to sit in the cover you want to apply it to and quick use it

[quaint rampart]

Does the Sweet Dreams melee do HSD?

[hot trellis]

Anyone got a crazy chatter box build don’t feel like scrubbing through yt

[odd ginkgo]

Crazy builds are what YouTube does best.

[subtle bluff]

yes and no.

[hot trellis]

Ye but I’m lazy and don’t feel like scrubbing through the 1000 shit posters to find a actual good build

Hints why I’m in build advice 😂

[subtle bluff]

There really isn't anything special with Chatterbox. HF rreally if anything or strikers

[hot trellis]

Ye I was more talking about what I should spec into I haven’t played in like two years and come back to a half baked hf chatterbox build and for the love of me can’t figure out what should be the main thing I spec into 😅 sorry don’t mean to sound dumb pretty causal player retired from destiny and come here to get my looter shooter itch

[subtle bluff]

Go to the Pinned Message > GDoc > Build Hub

[hot trellis]

My guy thanks

[wind forge]

are you able to change the talent that is on a chest piece or do I need to farm for another chest piece?

[lone wadi]

you can change 1 attribute per piece, be it the main, either secondary stats, or the talent

[wind forge]

ok sounds good thank you

[heavy cedar]

I have a question is it worth to get Liquid Engineer or should i just stick with a Chest with bloodsucker (this is going on a strikers im trying to play around with builds)

[lone wadi]

you cannot get a chest with bloodsucker

you should also usually have the striker bag

[solar sable]

Bloodsucker is a backpack talent. Stick to strikers

[heavy cedar]

naw im going blood sucker

[sudden cloak]

What's your build for? Open world? Legendary? Need additional context before we can help you proper

[heavy cedar]

ok i feel like everyone is over complicating it

im asking should i go liquid engineer or stick with a non named onewith bloodsucker

[solar sable]

I mean, asking what purpose isn't over complicating the thing

[sudden cloak]

@heavy cedar okay, I get that but I still need to what content you intend to run with said build so that I can you the proper advice

[heavy cedar]

no sorry i asked a few servers cause i was intrested in seeing what people say and it was people telling me to stick to strikers bp and im like i really just want to know this or that not a third option i know strikers bp is good im just wanting to mess with the builds

[heavy cedar]

im looking to run heroics with a group

[solar sable]

whag talent does liquid have?

[sudden cloak]

Okay, what's your main gun of choice?

[heavy cedar]

Perfect Blood sucker its only a difference of 5% diff between perfect and normal but its like 15% can hit higher heals then the other

[heavy cedar]

AR's so St elmos

[noble star]

Me personally I’d go with the no name, liquid engineer is a belstone piece

If your just going for the bloodsucker then a brand with better benefits would work better

[sudden cloak]

Ceska chest with obliterate, grupo/fenris BP with blood sucker

[noble star]

If it’s your only armour core though yeah belstone can work

[heavy cedar]

palaside BP what about that?

[noble star]

Yeah that’s def better

[sudden cloak]

How many blue cores do you plan to run

[heavy cedar]

gonna be paired with catharsis

4 strikers then Cathatsis and the bp i havent made a choice yet

[sudden cloak]

Catharsis isn't an exotic I'd run with this build

There are better options for exotic (memento)

[heavy cedar]

yea but i want blood sucker for bp its exploring

i got tired of memento and strikers

[noble star]

If you’re insistent on running a mask exotic I’d say use coyote mask

Pairs really well with strikers

[sudden cloak]

Which is fine, I just don't advise you running strikers chest for open world activities

[heavy cedar]

its gonna be with a squad

[sudden cloak]

You're still gonna have a hard time maintaining those stacks

[heavy cedar]

thx yall

[sudden cloak]

🫡

[lone wadi]

this is like 2021 pvp when people thought improv was a better choice than fox groupo and contractors

can you imagine if you cant move while shooting with accuracy in div 🙏

FR

[lone wadi]

sure

it is meant for pvp right

oh ok so like a fun thing'

is that bloody knuckle

i forgot what that does

ah

i mean it could be a fun builld

[lone wadi]

dw bout it lol

i mean by no means is that build bad, its just not optimal compared what is considered 'meta' so cleaning legs shoudl def be doable w it

yup

[subtle bluff]

In the past I’ve cleared most of a leggo on a hybrid Turret/Drone build. It loooked and felt like ass doing it vs what I am able to do now.

Throw on Foxes instead you’ll get a lil bit more dmg.

[unkempt robin]

New to the division game got to lvl 40, I'm looking at doing either a heartbreaker or striker build, any suggestions?

Thank you. Il probs go towards the heartbreaker survivability is key

[fallen comet]

how do you guys run a measured assembly build in pve?

i tried to use birdie's bag but its kinda meh

would 4 piece of the gearset, BTSU and an alps chest be good?

[subtle bluff]

It's a niche gearset due it's talents.
Birdies is only good for when players go down running is saying you expect players to go down.
What about a gearset?

[fallen comet]

im trying it in legendary to counter the explosives, not looking good so far

shit keeps exploding

[lone wadi]

haha the best way to counter the explosives is to target them first

[subtle bluff]

You cannot full counter it can keep it at bay for a bit. imo it's crutch build for a team that needs it.

MMR HH Red MA is the only way to go.

[fallen comet]

well crap

does the hive need a line of sight to disable explosives?

[subtle bluff]

Read the talent..

[fallen comet]

says the ones that enter the range but it doesnt always do that

[thorny solstice]

Only for hardest content. On heroic and below its pointless.

[lone wadi]

even then just shoot them 🙏

[thorny solstice]

Im running it with healer hive and precision smart cover.
Either with Emphatic resolve talent on chest or MA chest.
BTSU gloves.
Skill haste mods, skill haste and repair attributes.
Smart cover gives insane damage boost, 41% dttoc at skill tier 6 and 49% with overcharge.
Heals are also very potent.

[worn elbow]

How’s the build looking this my 2nd variant of the striker build

[slow wyvern]

Thank you btw, I tried this when I got home yesterday and it’s very good, it allowed me to actually be able to kill the legendary boss on summit and ended up farming for a bighorn

[grizzled garnet]

Looks good assuming youre around 50% chc

Keep in mind memento is leaning towards solo gameplay

[grizzled garnet]

An alternative is hotshot sniper build but its slower gameplay and imo greater risk if you miss

[worn elbow]

Yes but them headshots will get it to 70 lmao

[worn elbow]

Update on the build this set up rocks holy (it’s mainly for solo play)

[slow wyvern]

I built one but I need to work on my build for it , I can’t one shot the bosses on heroic so if I don’t kill everything else first then I have basically no chance of proccing again after hitting them

[grizzled garnet]

my main issue with hotshot is the enemies with the helmets

true sons gunner, hyena rusher and most heavies

[vestal ibex]

Yeah people have cleared full legendary missions with level 1 grey gear. It's just a time and effort thing tbh. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T_Wt4f3s9A

[meager fog]

Not a problem.

Its your basic high DPS build, although squishy it is pretty much the standard.

[quiet arrow]

rate my heroic build

[lost wren]

pretty bog standard just that most ceska chest piece instead of fenris for obliterate

[quiet arrow]

what does bog mean

[grizzled garnet]

Its just a saying. "Bog standard" means ordinary, basic or common

[quiet arrow]

oh ok i guess im happy about my build then

[meager fog]

It's a cookie cutter DPS build.....

THe only difference is using Fenris instead of Ceska Oblit chest, which is nerfing your DPS.

What are your crit stats?

[quiet arrow]

il show em

its kind of bad i know but i have coyotes mask

[meager fog]

Wow.

Yeah that crit chance is WAY too low. 50-55% minimum when using Coyotes

[quiet arrow]

how can i get more i feel kinda dumb now

[patent fossil]

Swapping Fenris for ceska will help

[meager fog]

No need to feel dumb.

Ceska gives 8% by wearing a single piece

[quiet arrow]

alr ty man il grind summit for ceska then

[meager fog]

What mods are you using? All your mods should be CHC, until you hit 50%+ then use CHD

Also, if you're only hitting 39%, your gear attributes have to be the wrong ones

[quiet arrow]

all of them are crit damage

[meager fog]

PM me if you want, show me the stats on each piece of gear and i'll help you out

[quiet arrow]

for the mods

[meager fog]

Something isn't adding up, that crit damage and crit chance is way too low. I have a feeling your attributes aren't right

[scenic briar]

maxing out CHC on the watch adds a few more percentage points too

[quiet arrow]

your right because most of them are headshot damage

[meager fog]

Yeah need to farm for those crit damage pieces and t hen add crit chance through mods.

[quiet arrow]

so regular armour peices should add critical damage and the mods on it are all chance?

[meager fog]

You've made the mistake alot of people do by farming for the gear pieces and not looked at the attributes. It's an easy mistake to make.

[scenic briar]

weapon mods, gear mods, gear attributes, you want some combo that will get you up to the 50-60% range for CHC and then the rest into CHD

[meager fog]

Once the DPS build is maxed out you should sit somewhere between the range of 50-60% CHC and 170-200% CHD

[quiet arrow]

alright so i gotta focus on getting some serious numbers for chc

[meager fog]

By having a maxed crit chance on your watch, and having a single Ceska piece. You have 18% there.

Buiild from that

[quiet arrow]

🤦

[meager fog]

Every day is a learning day.

How comfortable are you on Heroic with your build?

[quiet arrow]

8/10 easiness

[scenic briar]

not being maxed out doesn't mean it's a bad build, just remember to put all your red watch points into CHC first and keep an eye out for gear pieces with CHC/CHD on them

[vital apex]

What’s a good at shredding bleed build for conflict

[meager fog]

Then when you've fixed it, you'll be running through HJeroic

[quiet arrow]

ight

[odd ginkgo]

We mostly discuss PvE builds here. There is a gear spreadsheet in the pins with mostly PvE builds in it. You might want to ask down in #td2-pvp-discussions for better info about PvP centric builds.

[coral reef]

Is there another gearset that gives bonus armor to the entire team, besides Patriot?

[subtle bluff]

No. Chest and BP talents

[vestal ibex]

Ceska>grupo. Healing hive? Idk that's personal preference. I'd work on that crit ratio. 1:2 CHC:CHD up to 60 or 50-55 if taking advantage of mid coyotes. DTTOOC on elmo yeah?

Well that will be a 10% damage increase to all things out of cover once you get it.

Doesn't matter where it is or how you configure it.

[small igloo]

Ceska chest/obliterate

No unfortunately not, countdown time

[vestal ibex]

Need mats to re roll elmos anyway.

[restive bridge]

any build for a banced mixed of defence and dps? Im currently using a diy forge build

[subtle bluff]

Technically there are two core attributes and one attribute

[cerulean smelt]

For pvp a headshot armor regen or hazard pro is popular, pve there's not much defensive with offensive builds

[restive bridge]

thanks dude, im kinda new to pvp tho, ill use these builds

[cerulean smelt]

think only 2 builds i can think of where you're tanky but you do have some offensive power are Heartbreaker and Hotshot, but once you run into things without heads those builds kind of plummet in damage, or with hotshot things with helmets kind of busts up yoru headshot rythym you have going

[small igloo]

I try to keep my chc around 55 , personal preference.

[cerulean smelt]

nods 55-60% is my choice

[hard sapphire]

Just curious. Does anybody know if the Backfire SMG Reload bleed on self, trigger stacks of the Catharsis Mask damage buff?

In less words, does Backfire synergize with Catharsis

[cerulean smelt]

no clue, but i wouldn't be willing to bleed that much to see if it does

[hard sapphire]

Well I am

[onyx sage]

nope

[cerulean smelt]

only synergy i can see backfire working with is the catalyst mask

[onyx sage]

this interaction was removed specifically

status effects applied from anything else will stack catharsis, but not backfire bleed

[hard sapphire]

Shoot

[hard sapphire]

I thought I was a genius for a moment with Catharsis, Backfire and Perfect Clutch, Unbreakable.

[stoic grail]

Is this a good build for a new player starting to get into needing a build. https://youtu.be/xYYGasEY6Ss?si=GTC-V639dfQNbbkl

[subtle bluff]

Ceska and Grupo brandset and it'll work. CHC is worth more than WD.

You can play with streamline but I think Killer will do you better and skill are too strong not to be used.

[noble star]

Would running oxpecker with negotiators work? I’m thinking that by damaging more than one enemy at a time it can heal the shield faster.

[stoic grail]

Ceska and grupo instead of his 2 legendary pieces? Little knew to this sorry 🙂

[subtle bluff]

If you go to the Pinned Messages > Gdoc > Build Hub there's a bunch of Build guides.

[subtle bluff]

Nego is doing the damage not the weapon for the transfer dmg.

[hexed steppe]

oxpecker is a good.... component

[scenic briar]

I've been running Oxpecker with decent success, even in legendary a few times. I run Striker with backpack, Exodus gloves, Ceska chest with Obliterate, reroll for one blue core

the trick is to only use the shield while you're shooting. it's not meant to tank hits, just protect you while emptying your mag

[noble star]

Yeah that’s probably the best it can get, unfortunately there’s just very little ways to get around the shield drain without just running some stuff that gets you pure dps

[subtle bluff]

It's too much effort to balance it to be good. enough. It's base weapon MP7 got a WD and RPM nerf 2 seasons ago and it was already mid beforehand.

[noble star]

So it was good before they nerfed it?