td2-build-advice

[hexed steppe]

The only real reason to use memento on a red build is for the survivability.
I agree if not fully utilizing it's better to run standard

[astral kraken]

right but survivability is coming from shield, not armor

armor evaporates fast

[hexed steppe]

So will the shield.

[astral kraken]

naw dude. with a tier 4 shield you can trade with an elite minitank on leg

[hexed steppe]

But could add artificer and that would be more beneficial with a yellow

[astral kraken]

whereas tier 1 shield gets ripped apart

with artificer you rely on timing, almost rng. if timing is wrong shield breaks.

artificer keeps the shield healed up in a sustained way but "burst" survivability is still bad

[hexed steppe]

If t4 trades well with elite it's not so much rng, right?

[astral kraken]

oh you mean artificer + t4 shield? yea it's good but you're giving up a skill

t4 shield is enough to handle most things and a skill can make a big difference

[hexed steppe]

Yeah just thinking that 1 build

[sullen sun]

Can someone post the builds pin from Evernote?

I can’t find it..

[upbeat mango]

Been trying to grind and improve my build what should I grind for, currently trying for memento and going to move onto the ouroboros

[flint wave]

I can see why they kick ur build

there's no way there's more then 20% crit chance in this build

[upbeat mango]

Fuck crit chance

[flint wave]

lol

[sullen sun]

☠️

[upbeat mango]

Still need to reroll those gloves but I can't be fucked

[flint wave]

majority of crit chance comes from vindictive 💀

[upbeat mango]

I've tried crit chance but I've no luck with It

[flint wave]

your gun has no crit mods so no matter what you do you're always gonna be crit starved

[mystic ginkgo]

I have a feeling that tech builds have been dead for a while, I only do so to make a "second" teammate aka a drone

[bronze hound]

wdym

[upbeat mango]

I don't actually know the proper amount of damage the Bluescreen should be doing but It's 98K which seems wrong

[bronze hound]

98k where did you get that number from

[upbeat mango]

Core stats

[sullen sun]

Blue screen 📺 s underwhelming

[flint wave]

primary damage

[mystic ginkgo]

I dunno, everyone builds for stuff like dps, and I think I'm holding myself back, here I'll shoot a screenshot of my agent in a sec

[sullen sun]

Just like most lmgs

[bronze hound]

dont listen to that for damage

[flint wave]

He has no crit so it's all the damage he's dealing

[bronze hound]

why no crit thats literally how you make a dps build

[sullen sun]

Correction: RAW weapon dmg

[upbeat mango]

Don't like crit It's womp womped for me In the past

[bronze hound]

then youre not using it right

because im hitting for like 1.2 mil on crits

ideally you should have 50% crit chance and 150% crit damage

[sullen sun]

If you’re not building for crit you’re in denial

[upbeat mango]

Can't be fucked to reroll memento Is all I need In life rn

[bronze hound]

slav youll be fine for lower end content but if you want to do group content please just get crit

[flint wave]

memento is one step in getting a great solo build but you just have no dmg

Crit adds alot

[upbeat mango]

I want the memento first because I don't wanna go back to summit for my striker reroll and I don't wanna reroll on fuckin countdown

[sullen sun]

Believe it or don’t but there’s a right and a wrong way

[upbeat mango]

I'll get the crit shit but after gods chosen bag

[bronze hound]

just a quick note memento isnt that good in groups

[sullen sun]

It’s not the end all be all brother

[upbeat mango]

Don't care

[flint wave]

It's a shame there are so many enemies without heads or they just have armor plates not effected by headshot damage

[upbeat mango]

Cool bag

Drippy bag even

[bronze hound]

just letting you know case you get kicked from groups thats all

[sullen sun]

He’s got a stiffy for that bag 💼

[upbeat mango]

They can cry harder that my build Isn't ideal for their goon sesh

[bronze hound]

okay now that youve gotten advice theres not much else we can do here

[upbeat mango]

I'll get It but only after the bag

[bronze hound]

what about it

[flint wave]

purple d50 🔥

[upbeat mango]

And yes yes I do I mean have you seen the bag?

[bronze hound]

i hate memento tbh

[flint wave]

Memento looks awesome

I agree

[upbeat mango]

You just don't like cool bags

[mystic ginkgo]

Tech feels kinda weak for this, and to hunt hunters I'll need to get a whole new build qwp

[sullen sun]

I like cool shoes

[bronze hound]

skill builds dont work in a lot of content

[flint wave]

It's a shame it falls off so hard in group content

[mystic ginkgo]

Man I can't help that I'll focus on other things over my pistol

[bronze hound]

#ask-td2-community message see here

[upbeat mango]

If I could get the bag and then use the look of the bag on a better bag I would but It's not a possible thing cause ubi stinky

[bronze hound]

i hate the look of memento tbh

[hexed steppe]

memento wont make your build god tier. itll add some survivability, but youll need them trophies... and with no crit its gonna be slow going 🤣

[upbeat mango]

Don't care cool bag with watches of dead guys

[sullen sun]

But the 💼

[bronze hound]

power bank backpack is quite nice tho

[flint wave]

get off the fox bag

[bronze hound]

power bank

[flint wave]

power bank cool

[bronze hound]

i like the glow

[mystic ginkgo]

So for easy of play, what should one focus on for then for the most flexible, I think it might be defense builds

[bronze hound]

matches flashy

[flint wave]

memento gloes

[bronze hound]

i dont like rugged appearances

[bronze hound]

dps

[hexed steppe]

youll probably add yours to it as well 🍻

[mystic ginkgo]

And tbh I think I'm holding the tech build back by using a healing hive and not rocking something like a turret

[flint wave]

lmao

[upbeat mango]

I will!

[bronze hound]

damn local is having a bad day or something

[sullen sun]

It would technically match my character

But I prefer RAW weapon dmg

😝

[hexed steppe]

nah im gold. finished manhunt twice now with backup calls. almost rank 25 shep so far

[bronze hound]

nice

i got 100% on a chem quiz

[flint wave]

Chem launcher reference

[hexed steppe]

we just been getting a lot of , ummm... interesting agents lately 😅

[flint wave]

all these backup calls are on challenging difficulty waa

[hexed steppe]

chems a hard class, very nice

[mystic ginkgo]

Chem launcher my beloved, it allowed me to be so quick

[hexed steppe]

nah sometimes story as well 😎

[flint wave]

[hexed steppe]

i mostly find heroic calls or blue wing story/underlevel

[upbeat mango]

So when I start to go for strikers I'm looking for crit chance and damage yeah?

[mystic ginkgo]

Well I guess ima grind for a dps build to go hunt some hunters 😔
Tbh I have no clue since I've spec mostly for tech

[flint wave]

yeah but thr manhunt rn is changing that

[hexed steppe]

yeah, thats for any dps build that isnt headhunter

[flint wave]

me when one shot is a dps build

[hexed steppe]

you saw nothing

[upbeat mango]

Should I only bother with god rolls

[bronze hound]

I mean anything is better than what you got

[hexed steppe]

no, get it solid first with the right rolls, then upgrade gear as the god rolls come in . min 50%chc, rest into chd.
you can do double duty on farming if you use countdown because of all the loot drops and the exo caches every 30mins . CD is currently the fastest way to get memento.

but you can also farm open world for more relaxed play but it doesnt have the high yields

[upbeat mango]

Do I build for any amount of armor?

[bronze hound]

Don't build for armour ideally

[mystic ginkgo]

When it comes to weapons

What should I run for usually?

[shy willow]

Damage to targets out of cover as the third attribute on every weapon except LMGs

Which ideally you shouldn’t be running anyway for optimal dps

[flint wave]

I use crit chance on my crit starved acs

[upbeat mango]

Is there a way to check my crit chance or do I gotta just calculate It

[shy willow]

Stats tab in your inventory menu

[upbeat mango]

Cool

Appreciate It

Half way for my cch

[delicate laurel]

best shottie in the game lmao

[snow dome]

Is ridgeway pride incoming repair skill or repair skill

[onyx sage]

not affected by either

[upbeat mango]

Building crit chance Is fuckin impossible dude

Can you even get crit chance as a core

[onyx sage]

no

you just get them from attributes, brand sets, gun mods, coyote, and you get a big chunk if you use a smg

[upbeat mango]

Currently having the worst time rn I can't even get my crit chance over 20 idk how the fuck people get It to 50

[flint wave]

it's your gun

assuming it's still on the trash bluescreen

[upbeat mango]

Got nothin else

[flint wave]

On high end weapons you can usually put 3 5% chc attachments onto it

and smgs come with 21% chc as a secondary attribute

[upbeat mango]

So should I use lady death or some shit

[flint wave]

And then you have exotics like elmos engine with a 20% chc and chd mod

[upbeat mango]

So should I drop the bluescreen for lady death or something else

[flint wave]

get elmos

it's in the ar lootpool

and general exotic pool

[upbeat mango]

Yeah I'll get to that but for now

What should I run

[flint wave]

I guess lady death

also allows you to run a shield

[upbeat mango]

Crit chance went from sub 20 to fuckin 43 christ almighty do weapons make too much of a difference

So banshee and shield you think?

[flint wave]

for some rooms in this game it could be really good

[upbeat mango]

This Is what's currently goin on with my build

So wait what builds are LMGS even good for

[shy willow]

Swap zero F’s for ceska obliterate

And catharsis for coyotes

[shy willow]

None really

Sleipnir is good fun though

[upbeat mango]

Have non of those but I'll keep It In mind

[shy willow]

And if youre playing solo swap your skills for crusader shield + revive hive

[upbeat mango]

Nah not solo RN doing countdown

@flint wave @bronze hound You guys MAYBE may have been sorta kinda right about the crit chance and dropping the LMG

[shy willow]

Lmgs are virtually made obsolete by assault rifles

Especially when you were running blue screen

[upbeat mango]

I ran It for It's stacks which seemed better than everything else I had at the time

I used to run bullet king and strikers cause my buddy told me It was good and for like summit In a 4 man It was alright but for anything else like raids or CD It was bad

[shy willow]

As Thompson said aim for a saint Elmo’s or alternatively get a high end famas/C7

[flint wave]

Good carbine 7's are an exotic in itself

[upbeat mango]

I got a burn out just now from my last CD

[shy willow]

Your buddy set you up to fail😭

[upbeat mango]

He was running the same thing but I realize now he's kinda fuckin stupid

[shy willow]

What exactly was this guy running

[upbeat mango]

Also here Is the carbine 7 I have and the burnout which Is a famas

And he was running the same thing as me

Basically anyways

Chest plate was different but idk what It was

[shy willow]

That’s a nice burnout

Slap crit chance mods on and it’ll do you right

Same with the C7 but bis is damage to targets out of cover

[upbeat mango]

Should I run gunner or demo for striker btw?

Cause demo gets a plus 7 cch laser pointer

[shy willow]

I prefer gunner

10 percent armour on kill along with a rate of fire bonus

[upbeat mango]

Oh yeah nvm fuck demo

The famas Isn't better than my lady of death but I may keep It as an off hand

Perhaps lady of death and famas here?

[shy willow]

What difficulty are ya playing on

[upbeat mango]

Hero

[shy willow]

Hows your lady death doing better😭

[upbeat mango]

Idk

[shy willow]

It falls off completely in hard+

[upbeat mango]

24 Is famas 40 Is lady

Slighly less damage but half the chance

[shy willow]

You gotta get crit mods

[upbeat mango]

They're on

[shy willow]

You can get 15 percent from mods eventually 10 from the watch and the rest comes from your gear

[upbeat mango]

I've not had good crit chance rolls so far

Which Is why the famas lacks

[shy willow]

Ah your gear is heavily lacking crit then

[upbeat mango]

I've tried summit for rerolling but not much luck

[shy willow]

Ah you need crit chance mods on your gear too along with attributes

Up to 50 then dump everything into crit damage

[shy willow]

Gotta countdown fam

[shy willow]

You can reroll the weapon handling

From the recalibration station

[upbeat mango]

Don't have any crit chance stored on recal

I have almost nothing on there tbh been meaning to fix that

[shy willow]

Be on the lookout for pieces of the same type with maxed crit attributes

Cores too incase

[flint wave]

this man has a max crit chance mod at shd 80 wtf

[shy willow]

Innit

Coming up on shd 1000 and I only have 3

And 0 maxed PFE mods

[upbeat mango]

I got lucky on that crit chance mod

Summit moment

[flint wave]

idk what the game was trying to tell me but I got 3 max skill duration mods

[upbeat mango]

Is aces a good build btw?

Been fucking around with It and It seems fun

I know It's not good for raids but just general missions or what ever In a group

[shy willow]

Yikes

[shy willow]

I prefer hotshot

[flint wave]

atleast I got the 4 max crit dmg mods before thej

smh

[shy willow]

Hotshot handling and damage bonus is fun

[hazy steeple]

Aces is great, but it is somewhat outclassed by Hotshot now.
I still like Aces though.

[upbeat mango]

How hard Is the raid for the ouroboros btw

Once I get my stuff good I'd like to hit that raid

[shy willow]

Depends entirely on your teams dps and the quality of your support

And a sprinkling of mechanical knowledge needed

[junior surge]

Oxi build

[flint wave]

I refuse

[forest forum]

Hey check y'alls clan vendor for Yaahl if something y'all been trying to get, not sure if every clan has it or if its random. Wanted to share in case anyway.

[grizzled garnet]

im pretty sure all clan vendors are the same

that being said the roll isnt exceptional afaik but can be mass bought for yaahl materials

[forest forum]

That's awesome!

[forest forum]

Oh ik I just brought as many as i can to deconstruct. I got the blueprint so i can craft one.

Dude on YT made a build on 100% pulse and hazard protection for pvp. Definitely interesting see how that works for myself.

[grizzled garnet]

its a niche build which exclusively works against spotter or status skill builds

then again. pvp/dz pvp appears to be one massive never ending game of rock paper scissors

[deep pendant]

Can anyone recommend a support/healer set up?, PvE

[forest forum]

I agree its ongoing back and forth. Some seem to love it, some don't. I got an itch for it as I enjoy dz and cd.

[hexed steppe]

Just remember its 5 yaahl mats per craft. You'll probably have to craft a lot to get the right rolls so make sure you get a lot.
6mil maxes out the mats, but I would spend a minimum 600k (100 mats or 20 crafts)

[velvet wadi]

Anyone recommend a dps/tank build for pve? Mostly for doing pve and maybe some dz?

[tawdry flare]

FI HEALER

[deep pendant]

Thank you

[untold hearth]

It's 5am and I'm about to knock out. Anyone recommend some builds strictly for Legendaries.

Currently I was messing around with a few things, not saying it's perfect for it.

Gunner class
St. Elmo w/AA12 Shotty
Momento
Cheska Chest w/ Obliterate all red
4 piece Striker, mask, gloves, knees, holster
4 Blue & 3 Red Cores
Crusader Shield & Banshee Pulse

However I'm open for what's good recommendations of builds for let's say Legendary Summit.

Thanks in advance since I Will be sleeping 👍🏻🍻

[tawdry flare]

You can go focused strikers tbh cause summit is just inside closed doors no chance of getting rush from behind if you position right

[hexed steppe]

Might also consider decoy instead of banshee and tech class for a free shield tier

[flint wave]

this is perfect for solo legendary tbh, i use decoy tho

and use one less blue

[austere wyvern]

So.. i'm trying to make a deflector pistol build.. 4x foundry bulwark, zero F's and a generic holster.. I want to use the 93r.. Sort of a robocop style thing i got going.. any tips?

[shy willow]

Don't use foundry bulwark and don't use the deflector

And don't use the restorer hive at tier 0

[vestal ibex]

Come on Naval help them therory craft a build.

[shy willow]

I mean is it purely defensive

[tawdry flare]

Put your soul into it @shy willow

[shy willow]

💀😭

[hexed steppe]

Do the liberty (pistol) project, use tech class/artificer + bulwark
Catharsis mask, forge holster.

[vestal ibex]

Forge probably isn't worth it unless T0 or T1 tho right?

[hexed steppe]

Itll add more than a blue core iirc what eevee always says about it

Could do picaros tho

[gentle lichen]

Does purge cloud heal shield too?

[vestal ibex]

Pretty sure it's like a heal chem

[hexed steppe]

I believe so.

Catharsis and liberty are both ways to increase damage and also synergize with a tank.

[vestal ibex]

Yeah build up body shots and blep

[shy willow]

Catharsis and liberty deadly on tanks

[gentle lichen]

You want it to be crit tho so you don't waste the 60% WD of liberty right?

[vestal ibex]

Deadly

[shy willow]

I mean it's like about 4 cores worth of damage at max stacks

Not crazy but for 6 blues it's a fair bit

[gentle lichen]

Yeah liberty is used quite rigorously in pvp

But they go for headshots so the WD doesn't matter that much

[fleet stump]

hello

[gentle lichen]

But in pve I remember having a build when i was like 600 shd that was a liberty build that dealt like 2m per crit on a 4 blues build

[hexed steppe]

6 cores at max. 4x liberty 2x catharsis.
If picaros is used over forge it's another core

[gentle lichen]

Catharsis unreliable. Sustaining stacks is really hard especially when you are using shield

Assume 1 core on average

[fleet stump]

guys what is the best backpack for healer build(future initiative)?

[shy willow]

Oh shit liberty stacks to 60?

[hexed steppe]

I'm just mentioning max/best case. Ymmv

[flint wave]

The setup

[shy willow]

I thought it was up to 30

[flint wave]

But yellow

[gentle lichen]

Oh yeah best case 30 stacks i think it has the highest damage between all masks

[fleet stump]

hard to craft

[austere wyvern]

aha so i have to use meta, got it

[flint wave]

All you really need is repair skills then you can reroll to yellow

skill haste is less important

[austere wyvern]

thought i had a good thing going but ig not, dont want to use deagle

[flint wave]

alps with opportunist would be the easy route

[gentle lichen]

What would you want as a talent on your chest tho? Only damage increasing ones are henri and GC chests

[shy willow]

Oh 30 stacks of twoooooo

[hexed steppe]

Oh yeah 🍻

[austere wyvern]

breadbasket 93r not bad, recoil goes up to head 90% of time

[gentle lichen]

If only it was full auto 😕

[shy willow]

Kard/liberty very nice options

[flint wave]

Bread basket + headhunter🧠

[fleet stump]

Is this good enough?

[shy willow]

Genius

[flint wave]

yes

[fleet stump]

tnx

[shy willow]

Not necessarily but you'll have a much harder time with theory crafted builds than ones already tried and true

[vestal ibex]

What diff/content are you playing?

[austere wyvern]

second run on challenging right now with this setup

[austere wyvern]

you could have just said don't use anything you are using

[vestal ibex]

If you make the couple small changes you will see an improvement tho.

[austere wyvern]

thanks for the advice guys, i want to stick with the 93r tho

[shy willow]

It's not impossible to use just very tedious when you bring it into heroic or challenging with directives

[hexed steppe]

So the deal with build advice, is that we give advice for improvement... guarantee you any build posted will* be picked apart and questioned... it's how we all get to top rated builds. Not gonna be any lies to spare someone from knowing where their build truly stands.

[vestal ibex]

I think scaling in diff should be noted as well. Challenging to heroic is a huge leap and the amount of damage you take increases a lot.

[shy willow]

Challenging to heroic is probably the biggest jump yeah

[vestal ibex]

If you are solo challenging you can pretty much use anything tho.

[shy willow]

But once you make it there's no going back tbh it feels so normal

[gentle lichen]

This is all in millions?

[deep pendant]

Oh this is really good information thank you for sharing

[vestal ibex]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQ-OZyQRHd6TskSbeE9tn2jMdn9eLIe9Fsm5CjD7A_EUwUKPdo_VO_ug7aOMdH3hhnw0pE8GGs_LnPl/pubhtml

[austere wyvern]

i will do as you guys say thanks for the tips

[vestal ibex]

Have the spreadsheet link for all the datas

[runic sphinx]

What's the best in slot dps build for st elmos / ouroboros

[shy willow]

Strikers

[vestal ibex]

PVE? What content?

[runic sphinx]

PVE like incursion legendary etc

[gentle lichen]

Isn't there the gunner type for true sons and outcasts? They have more health than the average. Opposite goes to sniper type

[vestal ibex]

All types do have some variation to health yeah. Rushers having the least and gunner types typically having the most.

Raw numbers tab has some verbage on that too.

[gentle lichen]

Is there like a % of how much of an increase or decrease in health? Between types

[vestal ibex]

Not sure. You could figure out the health by starting a mission killing just that enemy and doing nothing else the entire time and seeing what damage you did in the after action but it's a hassle and doesn't really help with anything more than HH builds imo.

[flint wave]

outcast elite gunner refuses to be one shot by hotshot hh build on 4 player

[gentle lichen]

Yeah that's what i was trying to do. Knowing the total health is kind of essential when you wanna see if your HH can do enough

[vestal ibex]

Strikers. You can go to the pinned messages for a spreadsheet that has a build hub tab, next to the strikers build is an evernote link that opens into a build guide.

[gentle lichen]

Have your team soften em' up for the HH

25% of total armor removed should be enough

Oh you're talking about elite i thought you were talking about named

I don't have that issue when using my Hotshot

[flint wave]

player scaling makes it a problem

[gentle lichen]

Even when scaled

But i use white death fyi

Idk what you're using for hotshot maybe m700 which i think can't 1 shot

Haha finally

[vestal ibex]

This a YOU problem.

[flint wave]

the max weapon handling bloodsucker life

[vestal ibex]

I just body helmet enemies if they don't have body armor. Might aswell just kill em vs popping the helm and trying to kill them. Just drop HH on their body and get new HH from somewhere else.

[flint wave]

rare determined L

can't do that😔

[hexed steppe]

same with red bar hyena rusher on story 🍻

[vestal ibex]

Swap off to loose determined.

Bang. Then reup your stuffs.

[gentle lichen]

Have a shotgun as a backup. Blow some guy's chest off with max HH stacks

[tawdry flare]

Have a sleigher as a backup

[flint wave]

the 9 million damage snowball

[tawdry flare]

One shot solo elites

[gentle lichen]

Was running meta (2.0M armor) when i was rudely 1 shot by this. Can it actually do 2M+ on players with full or half focus stacks?

[astral kraken]

what the

[gentle lichen]

I wouldn't have posted it if it didn't blow my head off lmao

[round zinc]

If you’re somehow unlucky enough to get hit by the full force of the nemesis to the head then maybeeeeeeeee?

[slate nest]

chairs 👋

[round zinc]

Hello

[astral kraken]

nemesis and focus

[gentle lichen]

And ngl on meta using nemesis can headshot for 1.3m and 1.7 on crit

[round zinc]

Bro was hardscoping for a whole day for that lol

[gentle lichen]

So focusing on HSD and MMR damage can do 2m?

[gentle lichen]

It kinda synergises actually because you have to charge nemesis

Before you shoot it you'd have like 4 to 5 stacks

[round zinc]

They do synergize but its funny to think that some guy hardscopes for 10 seconds in pvp

[vestal ibex]

Then you misss

[gentle lichen]

That exists when you have a corner on someone and you just scope at the wall until the perfect opportunity to peek and snipe

[round zinc]

If i were in that situation i would just message ubi to remove the game from my account tbh

[astral kraken]

gameplay

[vestal ibex]

LMFAO

[round zinc]

Motivational
Inspiring
Heroic
Meaningful
Life changing

[gentle lichen]

Especially with that armor lmao you can face trade until you aim for the head

Nahhh i just tried it on a 3/3 not even 6 blue and it barely reaches 2m with a quickscope

Gotta have them focus stacks before engaging lol

[flint wave]

Binoculars

pvp edition

[tawdry flare]

@onyx sage

[onyx sage]

my life in legendary

[tawdry flare]

My Legendary Life

[flint wave]

Legendary life in me

[onyx sage]

how i walk

also a tutorial on how to maintain focus stacks btw

[tawdry flare]

Why not shoot and reload

[astral kraken]

omg 😂😂😂

[hexed steppe]

this is probably why there is a seizure warning in the opening splash screens 😂

[onyx sage]

LMAOOO

[spark vale]

So, I'm going for this strikes build: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s588/client/snv?isnewsnv=true&noteGuid=0ee25268-ad51-0dd8-be36-f12373c7630a&noteKey=ed1072bcb59a18f66b8619994f12c4e6&sn=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.evernote.com%2Fshard%2Fs588%2Fsh%2F0ee25268-ad51-0dd8-be36-f12373c7630a%2Fed1072bcb59a18f66b8619994f12c4e6&title=Strikers%2B%2528TU19%2529 Trying to farm assault rifles in countdown to find St. Elmo's, I've gotten a Chameleon. Now chameleon is not listed here, Is it a good enough alternative to start on other stuff for now and target farming other stuff like the Coyote mask?

[bright raptor]

Chameleon has a great rate of fire for keeping stacks up and gives a lot of crit chance for unoptimized builds, but its long range damage and accuracy is less good. The weapon handling bonus helps with the latter, and the stacks the former. If you can build them

[spark vale]

So decent choice but not optimal? Got it.

[flint wave]

Chameleon is an smg with 21% dth not an Assault rifle

don't use it on a traditional dps build

[spark vale]

It's an assault rifle?

[flint wave]

it's a fake ar

not real

[orchid cloud]

yep it's a decent choice but not a popular choice

[slate wedge]

it is good but you either give up skill haste or you have to run tech instead of survivalist/demolishionist

[flint wave]

skill haste is useless on healer

[vestal ibex]

Haste is better than repair imo.

More haste=more chem shots more often. People who do all repair are just super over healing.

[flint wave]

if I heal dps builds in one restorer shot I'm saving charges

I haven't ran out of heal chems yet

[cinder gazelle]

But it's not about that. People run out of the heals all the time.

[flint wave]

depends on the content

[vestal ibex]

It does depend on content but the worse the group the more heals you need to do. I don't always run speeds and with friends, sometimes it's randoms and no amount of heals is enough but haste helps more with bad randoms and in speeds because I can't always drop the hive somewhere everyone gets a heal when you all zoom zoom.

[urban latch]

It's classified as an AR, so it is boosted by AR damage, not smg, and has the damage to health attribute that ARs have. It plays like the smg vector that it's based on though, so it has poor accuracy and optimal range (meaning damage dropoff starts quickly).

It's a rollercoaster of a weapon. When it has it's buffs active and at short range it's very strong. Without them or at range it's weak. Normally if you had a short range weapon you can pair it with a longer range weapon like an AR or rifle, but because the buffs are so important to the chameleon and they are all lost if you swap weapons, your really committed to just using the chameleon, which is it's main downside

[blissful rampart]

haste is FAR from useless for healers. Healer build already has more then enough healing at base in their build that you can swap out repair skills for haste for faster chem charges and still already 1 shot heal dps.

[spark vale]

Hmm. I guess I'll spam AR countdowns then? Could be a bit painful, getting the right exotic to drop I guess.

[brazen elbow]

Same lol

[icy rune]

I have my St. Elmo's expertise to 5 already, but it feels a bit boring. I used to run Chatterbox, as it's my favorite gun in the game. In Countdown, at least, does Chatterbox have a role, maybe in Hunter's Fury or True Patriot?

[blissful rampart]

Chatterbox as an SMG is meh, middle of the road tbh. great for Oxy chem builds since the rof boost also boosts oxy chem rof

[icy rune]

That's what I remember.

So is there a Striker St. Elmo's build that can do ALL high-end content? I'm struggling to stay alive, even on Challenging.

[blissful rampart]

yes the one on the pinned spreadsheet.

[icy rune]

Thanks. I missed it.

[patent fossil]

Chatterbox is great on solo challenging or below, but above that enemies tend to be too tanky to kill in half a clip, which means you can't sustain the buff. I love it myself, but mostly just use it for league speedruns and boosting people through story mode.

[spark vale]

Btw is there a better way to farm for st elmo's than countdown with target AR? Or should I keep at it with that?

[tawdry flare]

No one has mentioned the meta SMG in the game with highest per bullet DMG

[bright raptor]

if there's an area that you like farming that has ARs targeted you can do that as well, but Countdown is indeed the preferred loot shower

[fallen comet]

CD is best

[spark vale]

Alright thanks.

[elfin otter]

Yeah CD is prob the best. I got two St Elmos in the span of like 3 matches a couple of days ago. Just gotta hope RNG gods are on your side.

[spark vale]

Hm, got no exotics at all yet from CD on challenging. But I got the chameleon from the vendor.

Also: Dang I struggle on challenging in the open world. Just go down so damn quick.

[flint wave]

use cover

[spark vale]

Sidenote, the Striker build recomends Crusader Shield as a skill, But the build being all red, no blue no yellow, that results in the shield lasting about 3 seconds in combat.

[tulip charm]

rng is rng imo you should more rely on the exotic caches from the cd vendor than the loot drop (Granted I drop my elmo in a cd run).

[flint wave]

the crusader shield is tankier then you

[spark vale]

I try. it can be difficult on control points where enemies come from multiple sides. And sometimes my experience in cover is that I just don't get any opportunity to shoot at all without losing all my armour.

[urban latch]

the basic idea is to use body high cover, but not the cover system, to block line of sight to most ads, and expose yourself with the shield only to what your shooting at

[spark vale]

Got it, so it's still not very "aggressive".

[urban latch]

with more experience you can learn how to be very aggressive safely.

[sullen sun]

Is this worth using?

Sry didn’t crop

[urban latch]

the ridgeways build is probably a little out of date since its very much outclassed by the ouroboros, but if you dont have one its an ok option.

[astral kraken]

do you attach to cover (eg: spacebar)?

[flint wave]

spreadsheet writer who wrote the spreadsheets rates his spreadsheets

[urban latch]

ill talk shit on any guide, including my own lol

[west kiln]

tbf early shd levels you get absolutely blasted on challenging difficulty

[gentle lichen]

I mean. If >15m why not just smg?

[sullen sun]

Is it worth going into the dark zone with?

[astral kraken]

getting blasted is more a matter of positioning than shd level

[vestal ibex]

Noice

[west kiln]

that is also true

[gentle lichen]

You can be competitive yeah but facing unbreakable players can mess you up

[urban latch]

well ouroboros specifically. ARs are still stronger at short range on most pvp builds. The only real advantage for SMGs is the CHC that allows you to run other stats like haz pro

[gentle lichen]

It also allows you to run rather chc consuming pieces. Contractor's foxes' and picaro's all at once

[urban latch]

yeah true

[gentle lichen]

But honestly in similar skill famas vs ouro on meta standard ouro almost always wins

Sure you can get the upper hand by shooting them from far away but. What's stopping them from doing a medkit push on you? Essentially setting yourself up for failure

[spare gull]

M1a flatline, carbine 7 flatline. Technician spec for laser pointer. Coyotes mask, perfect spotter chest, perfect vigilance backpack filled rest with providence and grupo. Reviver hive and crusader shield. Been my go to for rapid clearing of events and missions when not in the mood to run strikers. I highly recommend trying it out.

[gentle lichen]

If you can tame the KB it can be very powerful

[spare gull]

I like kingbreaker well enough, but I went heavier with chd over weapon handling for that reason. Going to try a p416 and police m4 as well.

Being able to unload a mag in peoples face from across the map is too appealing lol

[gentle lichen]

Ditch p4. M4 and C7 are your best choices for flatline other than KB

[spare gull]

To be fair, most of the shooting is from the m1a... headshots at distance hitting over 3.7m Might try kingbreaker for more up close encounters

My question for the build is, would it be worth my while to focus headshot damage over crit hit damage since that is where most of my rounds are hitting?

[flint wave]

no

use pulse laser pointer

[spare gull]

I am. But armor mods and attributes - leave as CHD or switch to HSD?

[flint wave]

no

[gentle lichen]

On long range it can be difficult

[bronze hound]

chd

[flint wave]

You encounter a grenade warhound your dead

[bronze hound]

some dont have heads i mean

[gentle lichen]

Somebody better give them a head

[flint wave]

lol

What green poison does to society

[spare gull]

lol. Havent tried on legendary, but it hits dogs hard on heroic.

[bronze hound]

they basically one shot on legendary

i say basically because your only protection is OSP

[spare gull]

osp?

[gentle lichen]

One shot protection

[spare gull]

ooooh. gotcha

[gentle lichen]

Two shot if a shield is involved

Another W for focus

[flint wave]

like 15 shots if you have blue or yellow cores

L for red builds

[gentle lichen]

Gazillion shots if PFE 6 blue car door

W for turtle builds

[west kiln]

sniper dogs are so pain 😭

[flint wave]

I see them as free jammer pulses

[upbeat mango]

Dude all my guns suck I've had no luck at all the best I have Is lady death but It does nothing damage wise

I use an assault rifle I have no crit chance I use an SMG I have no damage crit or not

[west kiln]

the grind continues for better stuff sir 🫡

you'll get there dw

[upbeat mango]

I'm gonna fucking angle grind my PC In the next few minutes nothing but holsters and acosta goon bags for me

[west kiln]

targeted loot missions or run countdown if you have it unlocked

or just pray your lvl up caches are good

the higher the difficulty, the better average stat for drops iirc so if you can do harder stuff (call for help if needed) do it

[bronze hound]

yes they do give better stats on avg

[upbeat mango]

I've been doing hero countdown for idk how long

[west kiln]

you targeting loot?

[upbeat mango]

I either get carried or the group gets dropped like a baby

I've been targeting loot

[west kiln]

then target like ARs or something for elmos you'll be rolling in them

no more holsters or bags

[upbeat mango]

I'm getting holsters and bags from the caches

And no exotics In raid

I've gotten only one exotic In raid and It was a fucking go bag

[bronze hound]

which raid

[bronze hound]

which raid which difficulty

[flint wave]

⠀

[icy rune]

Sounds useful. I often don't maintain enough stacks of Striker's.

[glad heart]

First point: The more desirable a piece of equipment or weapon is, the lower the drop rate for that particular item. This is by design, and goes along the basis of this game which is "The Grind." Conversely, the less desirable a piece of gear or equipment, the higher the drop rate, and this is also by design. Say you want Memento. You will likely get 10 Acosta go bags, before you get one memento. This is also by design. The Grind. I would also point out, that countdown is not the end all to be all place to get exotic or any other valuable item. Countdown is like a buzzword, the more something is repeated, the more it is believed. Maybe you need to take a different tac. Every valuable exotic I have ever gotten, other than part of season pass, global event, or other special activities has been is the summit.

I have never NEVER had any decent item drop in Countdown. In the raids, I worked through for a Regulus, and the first time I did IH I got Ravenous, but since have never received anything of real value in the raids.

[blissful rampart]

normally works like that BUT not in this game. all exotics have the same % drop rate. so its down to just RNG

[hexed steppe]

try flatline/spotter on nego, it works a lot like high end, except you transfer crit damage to all marked targets. just hitting crits marks them.

[blissful rampart]

only exception are raid Exos and big horn. all others have the same chance to drop (once unlocked for target pool if needed as well )

[hazy steeple]

It should also be noted that Summit will have higher individual chances to drop Exotics, since you can add on Directives, whereas the appeal of Countdown is sheer quantity of loot+caches from its vendor.

[glad heart]

Respectfully disagree, it is just too obvious that the drop rates are skewed, just like most other looter shooters.

[hazy steeple]

RNG is called RNG for a reason. It's random, they aren't weighted beyond Targeted Loot, and those are an added drop on top of what you'd be getting normally from an individual enemy anyway.

Many times over the years I've run TL and gotten multiples of something I've been looking for, and other times it's taken ages to get one single thing I want. And that's just Exotics, we're not even touching brandset rolled gear yet.

[blissful rampart]

you can disagree all you want but its been data mined 😛, hence my comment above

[glad heart]

It is what it is my friend

[blissful rampart]

1% drop chance for exotic from target loot, directives do indirectly buff this though

[onyx sage]

there are some intricacies in how the drop rates differ but those are quite specific (e.g. raid exotics and bighorn in dz drop rate), honestly generally the drop rates are known

[glad heart]

As a programmer: the problem with random number generators, is they are not that random. Most computer generated "random" numbers are not actually random. They can follow subtle patterns that can be observed over long periods of time, or over many instances of generating random numbers. Random number generators can be manipulated to suit a given need. As a side note, that can give rise to dangerous security flaws. A simple coin flip routine, 50% chance, can be manipulated to 70/40 or 80/20 and still appear to be completely random. Been there done that. Anyway, not worth the effort to persue this further. Grind grind grind, eventually you get what you are looking for.

[onyx sage]

that's just the problem with PRNGs in general, but the coded drop rates (or loot tables in this game) are known. how the PRNG behaves is independent of how the loot tables' distributions are

[hexed steppe]

The numbers are skewed in countdowns favor regardless of actual chance since guaranteed exo caches

I feel it depends a bit on what you're targetting as well. I always have high drop rates for mmr exo compared to any other gear

[glad heart]

Perhaps, but why go through all that hassle? Summit is cleaner as it were. I just think that countdown is being over inflated.

[hexed steppe]

Not really. The caches tip the scales

If there were no caches then it would be summit. But summit just cant guarantee and exo every 30 mins

[untold hearth]

Can you explain to me what a focused striker means? 🙏🏻 Lol

As for @hexed steppe & @flint wave responses, I will give Decoy a switch.

[onyx sage]

4p striker, ceska piece or coyote's mask, pristine example (perfect focus)

[untold hearth]

I definitely have coyotes

[onyx sage]

use it over ceska

[untold hearth]

Any yellow Pieces to replace the Cheska Chest obliterate?

[onyx sage]

pristine example

[untold hearth]

Ohhhhh I gotta see if I have something then

Just woke up lol

[onyx sage]

named chest with perfect focus

[vestal ibex]

Don't set this man down that path...

[onyx sage]

i will and he will love it hehe

[crimson niche]

found pretty good with thia build for darj zone
Bug damage, but not good when emeies are 2 or more
I shoukd find uograde the armor

[flint wave]

get that intimidate talent out of here

[upbeat mango]

Bout ready to give up on this build can't get ST.Elmos for the life of me and every high end assault rifle I switch to halfs my fucking cch

[grizzled garnet]

run challenging countdown with ar targeting. you can either get it in cd or from the exotic caches you buy with cd currency

[hexed steppe]

Get the ceska chest and grupo/coyote mask we mentioned yesterday and you wont be relying only on the weapon for chc.
Between the chest and either mask you'll have 22chc in the build before figuring a weapon or any other rolls/mods

[upbeat mango]

Trying to get those still right now currently about to put bloody knuckles on with a mask as my 4th

[hexed steppe]

Thatll help 👍

[crimson niche]

Bruh

[rich lotus]

Is a Build With 4x striker, Moment, perfect glass cannon .good?

[astral kraken]

replace glass cannon with ceska/obliterate, then it's fine

if you're gonna run glass cannon you're good at staying alive... in which case just run a standard striker build

[untold hearth]

Can you elaborate, It turns out I actually have the name chest piece with Perfect focus lol. Plus primary weapon, cuz st. Elmo doesn't work with it obviously. Currently using my Famas with a dam 8 times just why would this work in summit legendary lol

[velvet wadi]

so i asked early this morning, and didnt get a response any one got a build for pve for dps/tank build? im just getting back into the game after a year and half being gone from it.

[hexed steppe]

if youre setup as a tank you wont have good dps.
you might try something like hunters fury. use gunner class. hf + gunner is good cqb damage and every kill will net you 30% armor. add memento into the mix and youll have some short term bonus armor and long term regen.. also extra main cores/damage/skill efficiency. also add crusader shield to bump up the survivability further

heartbreaker is a possibility as well since you build stacks of damage and bonus armor simultaniously.
both have some setups listed in the pinned spreadsheet

[velvet wadi]

ok whats a good dps build for pve/dz?

[upbeat mango]

So far got non of those how ever I got a bunch of almost god roll cch's so now my crit chance Is 50 and dmg Is 45

We are so fucking back

[hexed steppe]

check out the pinned spreadsheet. it has a pvp guide in with the other pve builds.. youll use different builds for each

[sullen sun]

I have a VonDoom build for everybody I want to know your opinions lol

This is supposedly a solo DZ build

[velvet wadi]

Dps or tank?

[astral kraken]

yes

[rich cosmos]

What even is this thing

[magic pilot]

Strong because of Oreo

Not a bad build if you can max memento stacks

Are the sub attributes regen?

Or hazpro

[astral kraken]

i bet it's hazpro

not sure about the knees tho

[magic pilot]

50% hazpro and 10% from watch doesn't seem worth

[magic pilot]

Knees are emperors

[astral kraken]

o right

[gentle lichen]

The nostalgia. Used to use something like this around 1500 shd. Good for farming landmarks and simply running away when faced against players

But that was before elmo bullshit

[sullen sun]

Have no idea

[gentle lichen]

I can wager that

With max memento stacks and armor regen rolls on all pieces i think you cap at around 127K armor regen

[rich cosmos]

VonDoom has a thing for regen so probably

[untold hearth]

Old picture, but this still considered the PVP Build?

[urban latch]

Yeah that's solid. Ouroboros and st elmos are better for pvp

[onyx sage]

sorry for the late reply, yeah famas with 8x would be best for it. i assume you had a spin with it?

[untold hearth]

Ya it's an old pic. Got Elmo, not Oro yet lol

[untold hearth]

Yep lol. Not legendary cuz I was solo then did a bit with a group and I'd say it's fine. Just having to get use to the play style. Plus the fuckin aiming 🤣

[onyx sage]

it's definitely not for everyone. i only use it when i know i have to carry, but as you saw it's very potent

[untold hearth]

Yeah I could see it's usefulness not all my attributes are full I think just in my case if I were to use it I probably mod my Famas with like I don't know stability or something and all that besides critical hit damage and chance because I mean I was only doing heroic but it was just doing okay it's just the accuracy I'm like Jesus Christ I have to deal with this 🤣🤣🤣

But I do picture using this future on for like the legendary summit as so in the meantime still back to the grind

[upbeat mango]

Still looking for ceska chest and coyote mask rn but here Is what I'm working with so far anything I should fix or change?

[urban latch]

How much are you using bloody knuckles? Until you get a ceska chest a pair of ceska gloves, or grupo gloves once you get the ceska chest will likely help you

[upbeat mango]

Using the knuckles for It's crit chance

It's +5 crit damage

Or chance? hol up

[rich cosmos]

Wouldn’t cheska or groupo be better then?

[tawdry flare]

Might as well neelee NPCs for the buff

[upbeat mango]

I do sometimes

[upbeat mango]

Here are the stats

The stats are why I use It since I have nothing better to Increase CD or CCH

[tawdry flare]

That is not a bad build tbh if you get a ceska obli chest pcs

[urban latch]

well ideally you'd get CHC and CHD on the ceska/grupo gloves as well, so you'd be getting more from the brandset

[upbeat mango]

I've got Ninja bike so I can replace the It's wepdmg att for a cch or cd

[tawdry flare]

Skip this pcs

[rich cosmos]

Do not the ninja bike

[upbeat mango]

So ceska gloves and chest for the build and It should be good you think?

[rich cosmos]

Cheska and groupo pieces with obliterate

[tawdry flare]

Better than having nothing priority the ceska pcs when you get groupo coyote use it

[rich cosmos]

Personally I don’t use coyotes much because I don’t play at longer distances much

Coyote is usually a good substitute but I personally just use groupo over it

[rich lotus]

Does creeping death work with the pulse status effect applied by Heartbreakers Heartstopper talent?

[flint wave]

then you'll get benefits from the 25% crit dmg

[gentle lichen]

But that would be exactly why you would want to use coyote's

[rich cosmos]

But I don’t play at the ranges it would be helpful

[solar ridge]

hi new player here - just want to build a decent striker set to start doing incursions. what specialisations shld i run?

[rich cosmos]

Pretty simple to understand

[flint wave]

thats the problem what range isn't it helpful?

[gentle lichen]

Grupo+coyote's?

[rich cosmos]

The range for the first buff is 20 or 25 meters correct?

[flint wave]

no

[gentle lichen]

Huh?

[flint wave]

0-15

[rich cosmos]

I use groupo and cheska

[flint wave]

then 15-25 for the 10% chc and chd and then 25 and further for 25% chc

[rich cosmos]

Still Im usually in 15 to 10 meter range so it still would cause me issues

I prefer consistency over that damage

[flint wave]

r u an smg user?

[rich cosmos]

Plus I’m usually playing with others who have coyotes on

Meaning I get the buff as well

Its as simple as that

[gentle lichen]

Want consistency? Have smg and ar with coyote's. Close range? Smg. Long range? Ar

[flint wave]

ouroboros moment

[wise patio]

I suggest you to get dps build of only high end items instead of striker as striker stack building can be hard when you are new and you should also understand enemy behaviour

[rich cosmos]

Im going to ignore both of you because y’all seem to have a problem with me liking a preferred method

[flint wave]

lol

[gentle lichen]

They're suggestions. You're free to not use them

[flint wave]

ikr

[solar ridge]

i see. what high end gear sets shld i look out for? any YT build guide to recommend? also on my other question what specialisation shld i pick?

[flint wave]

didn't even know the ranges of coyotes buff at first

so that was needed

[wise patio]

Check pinned message in this channel

[rich lotus]

Don't listen to that nonsense. Just get a Lefty shotgun for stack building, open up with it and you can pull nearly all 200 stacks in the first 20 round mag.

From there switch to a more versatile primary weapon with a high ROF and you're good.

[wise patio]

And thats why i said apart from stack building understanding enemy behaviour is also important. What s the point of building stack and then u go down because they aggro'd on u ?

He clearly said he was new

[flint wave]

Pretty hard to argue against lefty if you aren't gunner

[rich lotus]

I was new just a few weeks ago myself and Strikers was the lowest time investment build and I'm damn glad people told me to build that set first. It dramatically speed up the acquisition of things. Lefty can be used to build stacks from cover and decent-ish range. Telling someone not to use it cuz stack building is hard when tools exist to speed up stack building simply because they are new is a bit of a disservice to them.

[wise patio]

ok

[vestal ibex]

Pulse isn't a status effect. It's kind of its own separate thing.

[rich lotus]

Excellent thank you.

[rich cosmos]

Kingbreaker perfect spotter is 25% damage right?

[rich lotus]

Another status effect question, the Hunter's Fury disorient would be further spread by creeping death right? Thinking of a Courier/Ridgeway/Hunter's Fury set.

[rich cosmos]

Or just 20%

[rich cosmos]

Pretty certain the backpack of HF does the same thing anyways

[flint wave]

yes but there's no way this is a good idea

[rich lotus]

I'd like to hear the reasoning.

[flint wave]

Hunters fury bag exists if you wanted more disorient spread and ridgeway is mid

[onyx sage]

creeping death is on a cooldown while the HF backpack does the same thing but doesn't have one

creeping death also only spreads once per such cooldown

[rich lotus]

Oh wow I just realized it has a cooldown.

Are Confuse/Disorient the same thing?

[gentle lichen]

Yeah

[rich lotus]

Curios if Galvanize would synergize with the Hunter's Fury disorient

Ridgeway+Lavoisier+Hunters Fury?

[onyx sage]

are you cooking a build for fun or are you asking for advice for the best variants?

[rich lotus]

The hunters fury part is a bit important there sorry lol

[gentle lichen]

Bleed isn't included in the status that proc galvanise

[rich lotus]

Theory crafting but I have mechanical understanding gaps I want to fill - so for fun... also want something different.

[rich lotus]

No but the disorient is

[gentle lichen]

Yeah so ridgeway isn't really being used

[rich lotus]

Honestly I just want ridgeways for the active armor repair

[onyx sage]

so galvanize is really for team support, and HF being a damage gear set means it really doesn't fit the build. if you want to do team support there are better builds out there that do utilize galvanize and have better inter-synergy

[rich lotus]

What backpack would combo best with a ridgeway hunter fury build?

[gentle lichen]

Wicked

[onyx sage]

i would heavily reconsider ridgeway because it sounds good on paper but its viability leaves a lot to be desired. 15m isn't really a huge radius at all and at that range, you're very much in danger and the regen doesn't make up for it

[gentle lichen]

Pointman+galvanise on ongoing directive is pretty good

[onyx sage]

yeah that sounds way better than using it on HF

[rich lotus]

Whole reason I combo'd it with hunters fury which also has a 15m limit.

[onyx sage]

yeah, but HF also incentivizes you to kill, and you picked two talents that do not give you any damage. HF is also starved for burst damage

[rich lotus]

I tend to not have issues making headshots so I tend to favor builds with a bit less focus on damage and more versatility is why I do that is all. My tolerances on time to kill are also a little higher than most. lol

Still though experimental and I need to see these holes - I don't want to waste time building something that isn't going to do the job.

[onyx sage]

you would be better off making an ongoing directive build like N-BTW said above then. HF is a selfish gear set that needs you to have burst damage to get over its initial weakness of not having any damage stacks

[rich lotus]

HF's damage bonus is based on killing blow like armor on kill, yeah?

[onyx sage]

yes

[rich lotus]

Mind is shifting more towards a Heartbreaker LMG build as I've been having a blast with LMG's the last week.

[onyx sage]

and all this advice is based off the premise that you'd be playing in co-op. if you're in solo, it's just best to go for an all red build or bruiser build

[rich lotus]

and yeah I have a full red strikers already for that. Just finding myself dissatisfied with how often I'm using armor kits and looking for fun ways to bypass. I really want a system corruption set tbh since the way it works does really well with my playstyle.

[sullen sun]

Valid build?

[gentle lichen]

Ceska holster

2 grupo isn't doing anything

[sullen sun]

Should I use Technician?

[gentle lichen]

Didn't even notice spec

Tech is a must

[sullen sun]

@gentle lichen Figured, Sounds dumb but does it make sense to put the laser pointer on the Shotty?

[gentle lichen]

If flatline

[rich lotus]

The technician one? No. Only reason you want it on your kingbreaker is to take advantage of the damage amp.

[gentle lichen]

It's pretty powerful

[rich lotus]

No flatline on his shotty tho

[gentle lichen]

Hence "if"

[sullen sun]

I can’t seem to to find a dam shotgun with flatline

[gentle lichen]

Preferably you'd wanna find a dttooc to roll flatline on it

[rich lotus]

dttooc?

[gentle lichen]

Damage to targets out of cover

[rich lotus]

oh you're using all the letters lol

[gentle lichen]

Abbreviations

[sullen sun]

Should I change skills?

[gentle lichen]

Is this for pvp?

Decoy and pulse

Use nemesis instead of shotgun for the time being

[sullen sun]

Achilles?

[gentle lichen]

No

It has an ear-deafening sound that will grab the attention of all players within 50m

[sullen sun]

Also should I use Coyote or switch it for Fenris?

[gentle lichen]

Keep coyote

[sullen sun]

Nice to know

[sullen sun]

@gentle lichen Couldn’t I technically use comp on the bag?

[rich lotus]

Curiosity about Heartbreaker and its stacks... specifically if all the bonus armor is shot off of me but the stacks are maxed because I've sustained fire, will continued fire at max stacks continue to add bonus armor thus "repairing" itself?

[gentle lichen]

In group comp is pretty good

[orchid cloud]

in my opinion i think it does not work like that however there is a gun that also works just exactly like that which is the acs 12

[rich lotus]

I don't understand your response or mine wasn't understood.

[magic pilot]

Swap gloves to ceska, holster to picaros try to hit 50 chc

If you are gonna run all red swap chest to fenris

1 blue isn't doing much

[magic pilot]

No it doesn't. You have to wait for stacks to go down to get more armor

[sullen sun]

I’m at 49 chc

[rich lotus]

Gotcha so the depletion rate of 2 stacks per second means you can't obtain more than 2% armor regen/second? (yes I know it's not actual armor regen, speaking functionally)

[magic pilot]

You have extra chc rolled on something then @sullen sun

[magic pilot]

Once at max stacks essentially yes

[rich lotus]

Cool ty that helps.

[orchid cloud]

actually im sorry the acs 12 or the named variant helps get the stacks back up and i missinterpreted ur question ig

[rich lotus]

I've been woefully frustrated that every ACS-12 that has dropped for me has literally been Lefty.

[magic pilot]

https://mxswat.github.io/mx-division-builds/#/IwWgTCDMKhAsA2EAGFbUfegXMAnOFDIWKJuVubhBNLJQxRtnKMHEWY91QbcUx6VsYDsGh0hgqmACsHMcgjAaSOKgAcsxtmlTdUnXAN7mp9EA
@sullen sun

54/168. Did contractors/fox since you are all red

[flint wave]

definitely the high end build of all time

[rich lotus]

I'm seeing a lot of stuff on heartbreaker requiring technician for the pulse attachment which leads me to the question - is the pulse application on headshot on a cooldown? I don't see one listed in the gear description so I assume that it's just getting the damage bonus on first shot/not having to deal with headshots that the technician is being commonly considered required for?

[onyx sage]

no it's not, it's just because some enemies in this game don't have heads

therefore you can't pulse them with headshots

[rich lotus]

Gotcha makes sense ty

How off are the DPS numbers on this build tool? https://mxswat.github.io/mx-division-builds/#/CwJgtODMYIxgDApiXLSgXAVi2u-JUiJ1ltpgk5oYRxiH0Nh9LK5HOnhd7ZSuDZtD4cB4ohhBYAbGFwx44GDIAcEcFnBqBUnPLCFYOuvPCq5QwRIwyMkddfgYAnLHaWBQA

I know they aren't accounting for set bonuses and talent procs but is that DPS actually accurate?

[round zinc]

I believe so since thats what most people use for dps calc

Tho thats a really low chc my guy

[rich lotus]

Half the cap? I get that some enemies don't have heads but is capping CHC really that big of a deal?

[round zinc]

Yes actually

[rich lotus]

Is 40% a bit better? Had an empty mod slot in the link.

[round zinc]

Whats your shd level

[rich lotus]

Not 1000. My CHC from SHD is maxed tho

[round zinc]

So that number is maxed out right

[rich lotus]

Yes, I have the 10% passive crit rate bonus from the SHD watch.

[round zinc]

Oh thats…even worse

Aim for as close to 60% as possible

Thats where a big chunk of your damage comes from

[rich lotus]

So here's my counter question to maxing CHC like that without using a high CHC weapon to bridge the gap... and that's that I have a higher than 60% chance of making headshots and if the build is already doing 32m DPS without applying flatline, crits or headshots doesn't headshots give me better overall damage output?

This is of course acknowledging that yes it makes you worse vs hardened headless targets but the rest of the stuff can be dispatched quicker, no?

[round zinc]

You know what thats a good point ive never thought of that

[onyx sage]

headshots will always give you more damage than crits but obviously, you have to hit headshots and not all targets have heads

[rich lotus]

Well that's where I'm coming from and the build mindset is using the LMG to disperese of the trash. Really fell in love with the GR9 and the Steady Handed perk on my strikers so I'm trying to factor that into the heartbreaker.

[onyx sage]

if you want to compare crit ratios, just do a simple chc x chd multiplication and compare before and after

there are more things than just crit but if crit is the only thing that's changing that simple multiplication will do the trick

[rich lotus]

Huh? why would I multiply CHC by CHD?

[onyx sage]

because that's what you will crit for on average

[rich lotus]

My brain does not compute that. Can you write out a formula?

[onyx sage]

if you have 60% chc and 120% chd for example, on average you will do 0.6 × 1.2 = 0.72 or 72% more damage if you crit

[rich lotus]

Wait are you telling me that crit damage is variable? I thought it was just a chance to crit and if you crit you get the flat crit damage bonus multiplied?

[onyx sage]

crit damage is variable yes, based on attributes from your gear

[rich lotus]

The stat itself, but the damage applied on critical hit is based on that cumulative crit damage stat, correct?

[onyx sage]

yes

[rich lotus]

So you're essentially providing a formula that is just giving you an average expectation and isn't actually guaranteed?

[onyx sage]

what i mean by this is, if you fire an unlimited number of shots, if you average all those shots' damage you will see a 72% bonus from crits

[onyx sage]

yes

it's called the law of large numbers

[rich lotus]

Because if I have 120% crit hit damage I expect a crit to do 120% more damage when I crit. So you're saying that formula predicts I would do an average of 72% more damage over time?

[onyx sage]

yes, because you also do non-crits

[rich lotus]

Ok cool that is useful ty.

I just feel dirty stacking crit when my CHD is low to begin with.

[onyx sage]

average crit is very useful when comparing between builds that do a relatively large number of shots (like AR/LMG/SMG builds) because those tend to hit the average crit more

[rich lotus]

https://mxswat.github.io/mx-division-builds/#/CwJgtODMYIy2AGRympehAuArN9cDI1iIMUdpwk5wYQqyTjNgDhS4nHGW8HPuXZsErIBQwYkwhsANjB4YCWrIAcEcNnBqeMvHiKwd9BeFXymmCdcyzMkddakBOWOxgXGQA

[onyx sage]

switch the ninjabike for a ceska backpack with vigilance

you will both get vigilance which is a large buff and the needed chc to shuffle for more chd

[rich lotus]

If I swap the ninjabike for a czeska backpack I lose the heartbreaker gear set bonus.

[onyx sage]

don't use contractor's

it's a net loss on gear set builds because they're crit starved. you need more crit than you need the dta from it

[rich lotus]

And what about the armor on kill? I've intentionally used belstone with gunner for 20% armor on kill.

I lose ninja I lose that bonus.

[onyx sage]

you can still get away with using 2 belstone

thing is ninjabike makes you lose the backpack talent which is a BIG loss

vigilance's 25% twd in this case means a direct 25% multiplier that you're not using if you use ninjabike

[rich lotus]

Is Vigilance an AMP or a flat bonus? I was under the impression weapon damage bonuses are just a sum addition to the base weapon damage pre multipliers?

[onyx sage]

vigilance is total weapon damage, which is a separate multiplier from all weapon damage which red cores and "% weapon damage" add to

vigilance isn't an amp either, it adds to "total weapon damage" multiplier

[rich lotus]

gotcha so it sits before all other modifiers that's pretty powerful

[onyx sage]

but here vigilance is the only twd buff, so its 1.25 is actually just 1.25, so a 1.25 multiplier all by itself that you really want to use

[rich lotus]

So that's all fine and dandy but if I use a Ceska chest piece with Vigilance I only have 1 slot free after replacing contractors with heartbreaker.

Which means 2 piece belsotone isn't possible and 10% armor on kill* on its own is useless thus diminishing the value of the specialization.

[onyx sage]

so here's the thing... you can use 2 belstone, but belstone with 2 crits to reroll to red are really hard to farm. what you can do is use an AR and roll preservation on it

10% aok isn't useless at all

by itself, it saves lives. you don't need 20%

[rich lotus]

It doesn't seem to proc when I don't have AOK from somewhere else.

[onyx sage]

what doesn't?

[rich lotus]

The gunner AOK stat.

[onyx sage]

it's always there

[rich lotus]

Yeah I know but either it's so pitiful it's seemed worthless to me or it's not proccing.

[onyx sage]

the thing is, the aok stat only procs when you kill non-skills

[rich lotus]

I never see my armor bar budge on kill

[onyx sage]

so if you kill mini-tanks or the true sons turrets for example, aok stat is useless

so you might not have felt it that impactful

but preservation does

[rich lotus]

But I should feel it when I kill normal enemies with normal guns, yes?

[onyx sage]

yes

even on red builds, 10% aok is very noticeable

[rich lotus]

I don't notice it 😦

[onyx sage]

then you're probably taking too much damage or not killing fast enough

[rich lotus]

No I mean I don't notice it at all - even intentionally watching the armor bar when getting a kill completely alone.

Like experimentation setting trying it.

[onyx sage]

which is another problem in itself. but anyway, something has to give. ninjabike is good if you really need that extra aok from 2 belstone, but i posit that you don't really need it

[rich lotus]

It's only when I get another 10% that my armor actually increases on kill

[onyx sage]

i encourage you to test again then, because 10% from gunner is always there, or you probably forgot to unlock it in the tree

[rich lotus]

So either I'm tripping or something is wrong/misconfigured or something?

[onyx sage]

it is a passive that you need to activate in the spec tree

[rich lotus]

Yeah I'm aware.

[onyx sage]

try testing again then

with and without 2 belstone

[rich lotus]

I do not expect it to function the way I'm describing.

I expect it to work exactly as you describe which is why I'm complaining about it lol

[onyx sage]

test again and record a clip

[rich lotus]

Hm I must have been tripping but I did just confirm I'm currently getting armor on kill. Could it perhaps have been related to losing gear set bonuses and stuff? I've had to switch out of and back to builds a couple times and have had others need to do the same on rare occassion while with me.

[onyx sage]

you probably played some time back then when they didn't fix the ninjabike bug

[rich lotus]

I'm new.

I only just got ninjabike 2-3 weeks ago.

[onyx sage]

sometimes its talent doesn't work and you have to re-equip it for it to activate the bonus set effects

[rich lotus]

No "back when" here.

I originally started a year ago then had to stop playing but intentionally held at the level 30 end game so NY would be new when I got back.

[dreamy valve]

Rate this build

[flint wave]

no there's not enough elites in legendary

wouldn't use/10

[tulip charm]

I wonder how long would it take to kill those dogs and chungus with that build

[rich lotus]

So looking at Vigilance I'm not really a fan of it and don't feel like minmaxing backpack talents for their damage bonuses. That said instead of Ceska I swapped out the Contractors for Providence gloves instead. Caps out crit with the LMG and gives me more headshot. https://mxswat.github.io/mx-division-builds/#/CwJgtODMYIy2AGRympehAuArN9cDI1iIMUdpwk5wYQqyTjMixph4nHHNg8G4XIRl6Vkg7sNSYQ2AGxg8MBLTkAOCOGzh1PWXjysYu+ovBqFTTFMmY5LDTawBOWB2OSgA

I'm too aggressive for vigilance, I'll rarely have the buff, especially if solo which is where I want this build more than anything.

[flint wave]

use memento then

[tulip charm]

Whats with the providence glove with cd and hsd

[rich lotus]

I hate collecting trophies for buffs and I'd counter with the argument of fetching trophies for stats in legendary seems not so smart.

[tulip charm]

Just use ceska

[flint wave]

Your gonna use this in legendary???? My condolences

but no if trophies give you 30-40% bonus armor apon picking them up its not a bad idea

depends on ur scenario ofc

also the long term buff from memento doesn't require you to actively pick the trophies up

[rich lotus]

I'm going to be honest sometimes it feels like people want to kick builts that include ninja simply because there's a ninjabike on it - not everyone plays in a way that makes using most of the backpack talents enjoyable. It's why I've made the choice to use ninja to inherit set bonuses and using providence with ninja is worth more than using ceska with ninja because proidence gives me crit and headshot where cesksa would give me crit and hazpro which is worthless to this build.

[rich lotus]

It explicitly says for every trophy collected, which means until you you're still ramping up, yeah?

[flint wave]

ceska would give you crit and a backpack talent which are very strong talents

[rich lotus]

But yes 5 minute duration on the longer effects is nice

[rich lotus]

Allow me to refer you to the statement I just stated about the backpack talents not being rewarding enough for how I want to play.

[tulip charm]

Ah its an nbb build

[tulip charm]

Also the reason why alot of people kick nbb builds/ridicule them is because the lack of good second/third brandset bonus and how strong backpack talents are

[elfin otter]

I got a feeling you're one of those

[tulip charm]

Like right now the only “viable” or popular nbb build was nego skill hybrid build

[round zinc]

I dont mjnd people using goofball builds until they start becoming a detriment to the group

[flint wave]

I'll definitely be "one of those" in raid and legendary

Or even heroic cd because they probably suck if they can't build

[rich lotus]

Vigilance is removed on taking damage for 4 seconds. Nullified by my aggression and builds purpose to clear adds with endless LMG fire which means I attract a lot of incoming fire.
Wicked doesn't work because I'm not consistently applying status effects.

Unstoppable Force is the most usable one but honestly being forced to choose between 25% weapon damage and 10% cirt chance that has to be ramped up and goes away after 15s without landing a killing blow - which means effective team mates have the potential to actively reduce my damage output.... versus an additional 10% armor on kill, 10% crit chance, 15% headshot, 1% armor regen is way more useful to me.

[round zinc]

Heartbreaker backpack

[flint wave]

memento and to a lesser extent the bloodsucker talent is like the best thing for aggressive players

[round zinc]

If your build cant utilize the HE backpack talent then im sorry but something is wrong

[rich lotus]

That only gives me extra armor. Useful but I don't need 200% extra bonus armor. 100% from the chest piece stacks is plenty.

[flint wave]

and a crusader shield but your running an lmg

[round zinc]

200% doubles my health tho

Put on 3 pfe mods and im a tank hybrid

You can use something like catharsis for even more tanking+bonus damage

[rich lotus]

I don't need that much

[round zinc]

Like there’s multiple variants of that build i can come up with that overpowers a ninjabag build

[rich lotus]

Most people playing full reds are survivng plenty fine between 700-900k armor.

[tulip charm]

Have you tried using a full blue hf if you still want to be aggressive in leg?

[round zinc]

But if you find something that works for you then yea go for it

[flint wave]

stroke

[rich lotus]

I don't play exclusively on legendary and the build isn't being made "for legendary".

[round zinc]

Me when the uh the uh the

[tulip charm]

Its 3 am I am sorry 💀

[round zinc]

But ok what im saying here is that play how you want

You’re in a channel called Build Advice,that means we give genuine advices on how to improve your build here.
Doesn’t mean that you explicitly need to do what we recommend you.
If you’re dead set on using ninjabag then there’s nothing we can say that can change your mind

[rich lotus]

This is a fact that isn't really helpful. The ninjabike hate is unreal lol. It exists for a purpose and that purpose isn't minmaxing damage output it's versatility and that's literally the reason I'm using it and noone is responding to my reasoning and thoughts and are all entirely focused on "moar pew".

[flint wave]

what is the hybrid though?

because even those don't use ninjabike

[shy willow]

Ninjabike is subpar at best

[rich lotus]

I'm not trying to be a hybrid?

[shy willow]

Memento better

[flint wave]

you mentioned versatility

I don't see the versatile part

[round zinc]

The ninjabike hate is justified but its funny

Lots of people want to be spreadsheet nerds and run ouroboros striker

[flint wave]

like i guess you can have 40% aok with ninjabike

no other build can do that

[rich lotus]

In choices, please don't be pedantic.

[round zinc]

how bout 85%

[flint wave]

averqge descent player

[rich lotus]

Honestly really disappointed in this last little bit of chat. Literally asking questions and trying to get the most out of something for my playstyle and people just want to sit there and be like "it's ninja so it's bad" instead of focusing on helping me milk what I can out of the damn thing lol.

It's like yes, I know I'm not metamaxing my crap. I don't care, get over it, accept it and look at my reasoning and provide advice around it. It's called build advice, after all.

[shy willow]

Naturally you're gonna get steered towards more effective options

Tis build advice

[forest hollow]

I just got ninja not too long ago

[flint wave]

exactly

[elfin otter]

They're just giving input. Simply ignore them if you're not interested

Also a block button if they piss you off too

[rich lotus]

Yes but it's insane by definition that people want to sit there and hammer me to continue to do so after I have looked at, considered and explained reasons why I'm sticking with the ninja option and want advice for various set combos.

"Replace X with Y."
"I'm using X for Z reason."
"Replace X with Q."

[forest hollow]

what exotics would be good for general and maybe legendary use

[gentle lichen]

Coyote's

[round zinc]

Depends on your role

[gentle lichen]

DCH+ reggie or d50

[shy willow]

A whole bunch

[forest hollow]

got Coyote's from decent

[gentle lichen]

Basically

[shy willow]

Scorpio ouro Elmo's coyote's dch regulus all nice options

[flint wave]

where gunner

[shy willow]

Liberty too

[forest hollow]

can I even get elmo anymore

[round zinc]

Forgor

[tawdry flare]

Sleigher

[shy willow]

Why use ninja out of curiosity

[shy willow]

Truly gamebreaking

[rich lotus]

I don't like the backpack bonuses. None of them provide an adequate enough bonus to make using them worthwhile to me outside of certain set bonuses and the backpack talent from Heartbreaker is more armor and not damage therefore it's not as useful to me as using ninja to combine brand bonuses since I don't need the extra 100% bonus armor from heartbreaker at my skill level.

[gentle lichen]

Kinda setting yourself up for failure if ninjabike. Tried it 2 times and failed. Never again

[elfin otter]

Bro

[shy willow]

Not even vigilance or something?

It's free 25 percent damage

[round zinc]

i just love how bro is ranting about everyone hating about ninjabag and we’re just “why tf would you use ninja that sucks”

[flint wave]

lol

[gentle lichen]

And that's TWD which is amp

[rich lotus]

Until you take damage.

[round zinc]

Completely missing the entire point

[tulip charm]

Memento is like the only other option imo that gives all the bonus you want no?

[flint wave]

vigilance stays if you get hit while having bonus armor or your using a shoeld

[tulip charm]

Sure its slow on build up

[flint wave]

heartbreaker gives bonus armor

[gentle lichen]

Build has 2 lmgs

[shy willow]

Vigi doesn't go down if your shield gets hit

[flint wave]

And that's another problem

[tulip charm]

Well hes using an lmg

[forest hollow]

I think ninja can use a buff

[shy willow]

HUH

[tawdry flare]

Bullet King

[gentle lichen]

At this point just shield peek with ar that has flatline

[rich lotus]

This is not a shield build - the bulwark is only there to give me options in movement.

[shy willow]

Actually?

[sullen sun]

Would this actually work?

[shy willow]

Crusader shield is very powerful

[rich lotus]

Honestly probably won't even use the bulwark at all with heartbreaker.

[sullen sun]

Providence on the holster

[hazy steeple]

It's a ninjabike bag. Why would you do that to yourself?

[tulip charm]

Build in question iirc

[gentle lichen]

Nope

[flint wave]

cover to cover moves are your movement option

[shy willow]

Dare😭

[forest hollow]

whats that exotic in the gear section

[sullen sun]

It’s not my build it’s Running Butchers lol

[tulip charm]

Ninjabike backpack

[gentle lichen]

Dear lord is this pve or pvp?

[forest hollow]

O H N O

[round zinc]

Everything works

[hazy steeple]

Yeah div2 youtubers are not people you should listen to, for the most part.

[flint wave]

dare can't even use linked laser pointer sad days🪦

[sullen sun]

No idea lol

[forest hollow]

I have the kneepads I forgot about the bag

[flint wave]

I blame them for this noobtrap

[shy willow]

Memento gives all the versatility in the world especially put against ninja

[sullen sun]

I’ve found this out the hard way

[gentle lichen]

Yeah people kinda forget the long term buffs are absolutely busted

[elfin otter]

Well what is?

[hazy steeple]

This is why we need I am Fox back. Although iKia does a decent job these days too.

[round zinc]

I saw some youtuber get dogpiled on for saying that fun builds are not meta because fun is subjective

[shy willow]

This community

[round zinc]

Wonder whose fault is that

[sullen sun]

This Discord

[hazy steeple]

The spreadsheet that's 📌 pinned in this channel.
all the builds have been fully vetted and tested for Heroic+.

[tulip charm]

My fun is to see everything dead!

[gentle lichen]

Ehhh i'd say spreadsheet until there is a discussion about a build that isn't included in spreadsheet. Like pvp builds

[shy willow]

I need to put together a proper memento build tbh everything is usually gearset bags😭

[hazy steeple]

There are PvP builds in the spreadsheet, they're just in the "PvP basics and starter builds".

[sullen sun]

Momento is overrated

[elfin otter]

Honestly just want video breakdowns though. Not spreadsheets. Not familiar enough with all these things anyways

[flint wave]

4pc striker ceska chest with 2 blues ez

[gentle lichen]

Yeah it's sort of the tip of the iceberg tho. There is depth to some pvp builds

[shy willow]

Tired of striker in solo it's ez mode

[sullen sun]

It works

[gentle lichen]

Use a gearset that has a trash bag. HF

[tulip charm]

Kinda surprised that people arent asking for a striker nerf

[round zinc]

Us

[shy willow]

I'd use HB but that lacks crits

[flint wave]

how do you nerf a thing like striker in this game

[rich lotus]

Why would they? This community only wants the fastest run times cuz apparently minmaxing your grind with insane DPS is the only way to play.

[tulip charm]

I dont want d1 meta again

[shy willow]

So I normally use ceska

[round zinc]

Div2 meta is way more diverse than div1