#halo-the-series-chat

1 messages · Page 3 of 1

solar wagon
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Can I just say the comments the actor for Jimmy Rings made about the whole helmet thing was really insensitive? Like there have been countless characters in media who wear masks or helmets and you can still tell what emotions they’re feeling thanks to their body language, tone of voice, and overall lighting. It sounds more like an excuse for subpar acting more than anything

unreal pebble
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Insensitive isn't the word I'd use.

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I'd say it's actually an incredibly overdramatic word to use.

fierce zenith
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This kind of comment makes me realize that most actors focus too much on facial acting and crucially neglect the importance of voice acting.
That's why James Earl Jones was chosen to make the voice of Vader : the actor in the suit was really tall and had the physical capacity, but terrible expression. And James became hugely popular without showing his face on three movies.

That's also why video game or anime shows usually have such excellent voice acting : because it's mostly done by professionals of this particular discipline. Steve Jones is the main reason why Master Chief was able to express so much with just a few words.

unreal pebble
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The guy's allowed to have opinions on the usage of helmets in media, and frankly, I'm split. On the one hand, there are absolutely difficulties in the execution of faceless acting, and this is a guy who was likely hired for his face and stature. But you can absolutely execute a faceless character well, in a show that is explicitly calling for that role.

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You don't hire someone who is, traditionally, an actor who uses his face, to do a show where you don't want his face shown.

mortal sun
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anyone here play halo wars 2

wintry pelican
unreal pebble
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And it's not like you can even use some bull about "Oh well Chief keeps his helmet on all the time", because in-universe that's not even true in the main continuity-Chief's been disarmored a lot in the novels, because he isn't a character who is culturally inclined to keep his armor on at all times like the Mandalorian. He is a warfighter, not an unthinking, unfeeling death golem who has nobody to answer to and an actual aversion to not wearing his armor.

The community gets bent out of shape over a tradition that has its roots in a version of Chief-a quiet, barely wisecracking solo fighter who is constantly in armor and constantly on the front lines due to the nature of the games-that has been thoroughly characterized, deconstructed, and downplayed in more recent media, and by recent I mean over a decade ago, as an actual character with thoughts and goals and desires, which itself is a continuation of his character from the books.

The thought people get in their head, due to this 'tradition', is that Chief, as a person, never removes his armor. Like he is a Big Daddy from Bioshock who has his skin replaced with his armor, like he cannot, ever, be depicted without a helmet. It doesn't matter how many times he's done so, it doesn't matter how illogical the situation is, he must never ever remove his armor. And while part of me absolutely understands that traditions are important, I do not understand nor condone tradition getting in the way of storytelling if the differences in stories are this extreme.

Not to mention-the examples people frequently cite for why Pablo should be fired, or quit, over this are similarly loose. One of the more cited examples is the quitting of the main actor of the Witcher a few months back. It's ignoring a key part of the problem; He was actively being told to do something that goes extensively against how Geralt acts in the novels and games. Pablo's story, regarding the helmet and his expression of the difficulties of the helmet, is different; Chief is not averse to doffing his helmet, he is not averse to taking his armor off, and he is not averse to talking to people face-to-face instead of face-to-faceplate. Are there other issues with the show, is the performance of faceless acting extremely important and extremely hard to do? Absolutely. But his criticism of the helmet situation and his defense of his role is a valid one, especially considering his career's history.

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Honestly, I almost feel bad for the guy. He took on a cursed role against a fanbase that thrives off of being overdramatic about everything, with a script that calls for some pretty strange things. He fits the role of Chief, visibly, being reasonably accurate to what we know Chief looks like from the books and younger depictions aside from eye color. Of the options that exist, he's a good one.

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I do wish they kept this mustache for him though. It'd easily be 10X better.

53bf047f0339a.png
mighty yew
fierce zenith
unreal pebble
toxic warren
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Good read, well laid out

mighty yew
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I read like, the first paragraph, but then I started to drift off. I blame the ADHD

fierce zenith
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Most of the time, bad actor choice are not caused by the actor himself but by their agent and by the studio. He's just trying to defend his position, which is understandable, but that doesn't mean that we should drop the helmet debate.

Saying that Master Chief should never ***ever ***take his helmet off is as ridiculous as making him taking the helmet off at every opportunity like they did in season 1 (by the prophet's beard, they even gave him a damn camera inside his helmet like iron man). When we say that Master Chief is the ***face ***of Halo, what do we mean? We mean his helmet.

And that's also true in-universe : covenants, civilians and even UNSC soldiers only know John from his helmet and don't even know how he looks like inside. That's his *official *face, and yes there is some level of propaganda at work both in-universe and in the Halo game marketing, but that's how it works and it's damn effective. The showrunners should have thought about this.

mighty yew
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I think the argument about him taking off his helmet is dumb but I do think the iron man camera was really stupid

unreal pebble
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Good ideas get copied. Can't say I'm surprised.

unreal pebble
carmine salmon
unreal pebble
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While Mandalorian's freaky sect is just weird.

steady bough
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They’re a fringe cult group. Not the norm.

unreal pebble
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No, careful, Eternal. Admitting that pokes holes in the Mando defense.

mighty yew
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what was that other movie Schreiber was in

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with that other guy

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had the really long title

fierce zenith
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Yeah, the comparaison with Mando don't stand on a in-universe logic. It just shows how you can have deep connection with a character without seeing his face.

On top of my head, Jimmy also takes it off to give an headshot opportunity to Kwan and inside an Insurgency space station while surrounded by rebels.
Also, while on mission he shouldn't take it off so often, like when their are studying the artefact before covenants show up.

steady bough
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A better example would be Bo Katan.

As she’s much more “Spartan” in mannerism (sort of)

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Or a Clone Trooper.

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/Stormtrooper, if we have to use Star Wars.

carmine salmon
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Trenchbird you are wrong. It's cited many times in multiple halo media that Spartans prefer being suited up. That they and the armor are one. I'd argue its Spartan culture? Culture exists outside of societies. There's such thing as military culture?

unreal pebble
toxic warren
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I've looked at Pablo's IMDB before, but I totally missed that he was in The Manchurian Candidate remake :o

steady bough
unreal pebble
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My annoyingly obsessive remembrance of Halo's literature knows no bounds, Young Grasshopper.

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NO BOUNDS!

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Also, I mean, literally just Noble Team.

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Just... All of Noble Team.

carmine salmon
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Tru

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But this is chief

steady bough
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One of the more prominent “life of a Spartan” monologues (well, passages, as it’s not spoken dialogue) doesn’t work if they’re in armour 100% of the time. Like it fundamentally cannot work as it requires the character in question to be bare foot at a minimum.

unreal pebble
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And Chief is a II, like Jorge.

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And Chief has a lot of depictions even post MJOLNIR showing his face, even helmetless.

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And a lot of literature explicitly mentioning he is not wearing his armor.

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Even passages in the first two books for Halo, ever.

steady bough
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His face is a mystery to us the audience.

Not people in universe.

unreal pebble
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Hell, even that's a bit of a stretch. It's a mystery to people who didn't read the comics or pay attention to two parts of 4.

steady bough
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No one really cares what he looks like. Anyone who’s actually followed him and his exploits in-universe would know what he looks like.

fierce zenith
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The fact is that John (or any other spartan) can take his helmet off whenever they want, of course, but they understand that for the common public, their official face are their helmet. And when they put it on, they are entering battle mode and become the invincible warrior of the legends.

So in my opinion, season 1 could have been pretty acceptable if they didn't use the inside camera while in combat.

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If you can show me a UNSC propaganda poster or media where we see John's face...

mighty yew
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Halo 4

fierce zenith
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Again : UNSC propaganda poster

little anvil
mighty yew
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How much actual spartan propaganda do we see in the games

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or UNSC propaganda in general

steady bough
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Not a poster, but Halsey has framed photos of Spartans in dress uniforms receiving medals on her desk in TFoR.

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And I doubt she got those custom made.

fierce zenith
carmine salmon
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Chief's whole dynamic is this man or machine theme right? It feels so reductive on a symbolic level to have him running around without his armor as much as he does in the show. I get that they're not in armor 100% of the time of course that's stupid. The show feels like a hit piece on his character. And to what end? Shock value? Subverting expectations?

mighty yew
little anvil
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On the helmet; the whole "he shouldnt take it off!" is a holdover of a long since passed moment in the series when he was supposed to be a blank canvas with a little bit of lore to himself.
Was he actually named in the CE booklet?

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Or did Nylund give him the title "John"

fierce zenith
steady bough
carmine salmon
little anvil
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So yeah, Bungie wanted him nameless AND faceless.

steady bough
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Mind you, I’d have used IV’s for that assignment lore wise.

But that they used III’s (the most secretive program) seems to imply that no one really minds.

fierce zenith
steady bough
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A similar thing occurs in Last Light.

Where Veta asks for surnames for the Spartans but only gets their numbers, and then just kind of excepts it.

little anvil
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OD has...several issues.
S-IIIs being guards are one.

Having a dead Flood infection form in a box on show?
Im sorry what

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Sacrifices made to allow for belieability/interest to those going to the actual event I suppose

steady bough
little anvil
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(Also Veta just instantly assumes they're UNSC war crime child soldiers off the bat without a seconds thought because shes from Gao so that doenst hurt her acceptance)

steady bough
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And Olivia stumbled on stating her age.

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(Well, one of them did, I want to say it was Olivia)

little anvil
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Yeah, but she doesnt show shock about it.
Its just "ah of course your children, the UNSC would do that. Yep."

unreal pebble
# carmine salmon Chief's whole dynamic is this man or machine theme right? It feels so reductive ...

Again, overdramatic.

The man and machine is more of an exaggerated version of what Halsey touts at Carter in Reach, and done better. Chief operates 'like a machine'-he is inhuman and acts the part. The armor is not an extension of the metaphor per say, but it's no mistake that show Chief doesn't wear his armor in moments where he is humanized.

It's an expansion of the concept of duty versus self, and Chief's unhealthy relationship with it.

steady bough
steady bough
mighty yew
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An open secret, like how so many modern "conspiracies" relating to governments are open secrets

fierce zenith
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Yes, like the conspiracy that Noemi's father tried to prove his entire like

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And he's not the only parent of a spartan-II to have strong suspicion about this. So it would be logical that ONI would keep the identity of every spartan as secret as possible.

unreal pebble
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I mean, they kinda did, but people still kept figuring it out because ONI's... Kinda sloppy.

little anvil
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The more people you have to hide something from the harder it is to hide

unreal pebble
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I mean, it has to be for many plots, but still.

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You want to start poking holes in Halo's narrative? Spartan IIs are by far the easiest target. Where did Mendez get some many people willing to beat up innocent children?

steady bough
unreal pebble
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Where did they hire so many people willing to kidnap children? How did they know Mendez would be fine abusing children? How did nobody catch on to what the gene sequencing of colony kids were for? How did Halsey find scientists and surgeons willing to violate their Hippocratic oath on preteens?

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How did they do it a second time?

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How did so many Halo fans get so easily convinced that child supersoldiers are the way to go?

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The list goes on.

fierce zenith
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Because it worked
And it is good

steady bough
unreal pebble
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That's flimsy reasoning, especially since Is and IVs exist.

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No, stealing children is not good.

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Not by any metric. The fact anyone somehow got convinced of that being good is abhorrent.

fierce zenith
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Order vs Chaos
Choose your side in the Insurrection

unreal pebble
unreal pebble
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And there's not exactly an abundance of evidence saying Carver was actually right. Halsey got psyopped into thinking along the same lines as Carver.

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Also, how the hell are 72 supersoldiers going to actually do much to help? Make martyrs? Force people to become slaves? You don't make Janissaries to survive, you build bridges.

fierce zenith
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The Insurrection weakened humanity before the Covenant arrived, and if Earth had lay off the damn colonies, humanity would have been exterminated a lot quicker.

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Apes strongs together

unreal pebble
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Half the reason the Covenant took 25 years to prosecute their war against humanity had little to actually do with human defensive capabilities.

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It had everything to do with how damn big space is.

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And the IIs weren't exactly instrumental in that war until the end. In fact, they were getting sent on safer and safer missions until the end of the war started tightening that noose around what was left.

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It's the entire reason the IIIs were made and subsequently spent.

fierce zenith
unreal pebble
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Cole Protocol would've been implemented regardless, and if you built bridges before the mutual threat showed up, you wouldn't have Innies trying to steal your nukes and frigates in the middle of a war of mutual survival-and make it easier to codify the cole protocol across your allied constintuent states.

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Or believing that the war was solely against the UNSC.

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Or believing that you could build bridges with the Covenant before they burned you asunder.

fierce zenith
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Innies were terrorists. They deserved to be crushed as hard as possible.

unreal pebble
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And that's exactly the reason why we still deal with terrorists.

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You burn them, break them, bury them? You make new martyrs, you make new hate.

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You don't get more out of gripping sand tighter.

fierce zenith
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Power brings competition and conflict. That would always be the way.
You cannot have a peaceful world, never.

unreal pebble
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But you can make it better without stealing children from beds and from schools to butcher them into your living new weapons.

fierce zenith
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That's the same moral problem than the nuking of Japan

unreal pebble
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Are you actually insane?

fierce zenith
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That was the quickest way to make the Emperor surrender. It was not a easy choice, but it may have saved lives.

unreal pebble
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And that is a vast oversimplification of WW2 Japan's state by the end.

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The Japanese army itself was willing to assassinate their own Emperor to continue to prosecute the war, unto death.

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He was already considering surrender.

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It's the sort of story you hear from a bored history teacher in Middle School, not the specific complexities of that problem.

steady bough
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reminder the firebombings killed more people, on average, and were also far worse on infastrucre.

fierce zenith
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We also have an oversimplification of the Insurrection in the Halo universe. The projections of the conflict were catastrophic.

unreal pebble
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And had a very high chance of being wrong.

fierce zenith
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So that's the story you told yourself

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That the spartan program was unnecessary

unreal pebble
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Of course it was. It was never necessary. Butchering of children is never necessary.

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There were already programs to augment your conventional adult soldiers. The UEG was impatient, unrepentent, belligerant. It didn't want to learn a lesson, it wanted to kill, and it wanted to make the problem worse through its indecision to do things in a proper way.

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And the way to make that worse is to justify nearly 300 years of propaganda against Earthgov's behavior.

fierce zenith
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The Orion project was a standard supersoldier project. It was successful on paper, but wasn't effective in stopping the Insurrection.
The Spartan program gave the UNSC something that was only on the rebel side for too long : FEAR.
When the rebels started to fear, they stopped attacking.

unreal pebble
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And other cute stories that the UNSC liked to tell itself while the rebels were stealing freighters and frigates from drydocks, stealing nukes and prepping armor-piercing ammo for the Spartans they knew were coming.

little anvil
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The UNSC is disfunctional and ONI has way too much freaking power.
As it should be.

unreal pebble
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The rebels got more bold. The rebels got more aggressive. Of course ORIONs failed, and the Spartans were going to fail too, for the exact same reasons.

fierce zenith
unreal pebble
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Oh no, he posted New Haven. My argument, it's fading away...

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It doesn't matter. The rebels were still stealing nukes. The rebels were still stealing ships. The ones who could let it go joined the UNSC, sure, but to fight the Covenant in the interest of humanity's shared defense, not because they feared the Spartans. All the Spartans would do is justify further acts of reprisal and widen the rift to the wayward.

fierce zenith
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You can deny every information, every bit of lore, saying that there is another interpretation or that it's incomplete, subjective, or any other thing.
You asked how Mendez managed to recrute so many people to beat inoccent childre. THAT'S WHY
The fact is that in the Halo universe, the situation was crazy enough that the spartan project was considered the solution for the Insurrection. That should tell everything about how horrible this civil war was going.

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And even if the creation of spartan justified the rebel's point of view about Earth's tyranny (it was'nt the UNSC military government at the time, but the UEG), the rebel's point of view was wrong. In the vast interstellar space, humanity must stay strong.

unreal pebble
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Because the UNSC is at its core a sick, disgusting organization that'll justify doing anything that gets them even a scrap of military strength, even if the ramifications for that action has them ruling over piles of dead families who just wanted independence?

You sure are doing a great job of painting exactly why the butchery of the Spartan program is a disgusting affront.

fierce zenith
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If it was just about military power, why didn't the UNSC declared global mobilization against the Covenant?

unreal pebble
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Honestly, I wasn't even on the Innie's side at the start of this, just acknowleding that the Spartan program was a horrible idea with how Halsey implemented it. Your harping about the "necessity" of something that was wholly anything but is a pretty solid argument for why the Innies had some good points.

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They literally did.

fierce zenith
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No, engagement was still based on volunteering

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That's why you have enlisting posters everywhere

unreal pebble
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Oh, you meant that kind of mobilization.

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So you meant conscription.

fierce zenith
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And ONI's section 2 was making its best to prevent global panic among the civilians

unreal pebble
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Not, y'know, mobilizing masses of forces to fight a threat.

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Course, that still doesn't make the Spartans okay. We're talking about the Insurrectionists, not the Covenant.

fierce zenith
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Yes, I'm just responding to your argument about UNSC wanting more and more power

unreal pebble
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I think the III program's marginally more understandable than the IIs, but that is mostly due to desperation than just being awful people. Lucky for the IIIs, really, it's a combination of justifiable desperation and being awful people.

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The IIs were just being awful people in a fight where they shouldn't have been treating with sticks.

fierce zenith
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Again, the fact that the spartan-II project was accepted despite all of its moral problem and technical difficulties shows how horrible the Insurrection was.

unreal pebble
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So? That doesn't make it okay, or even the right call, or even an accurate estimation of how the Innies should've been dealt with.

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In any other universe, including the one we currently live in, the UNSC would be considered an abhorrent organization for even entertaining the idea, no matter the threat.

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All of this for you to just tell me the IIs existed because of the Innies is just an affirmation of the excuse the UNSC made.

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It doesn't justify them.

fierce zenith
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Question: In the WH40K universe, is it okay to declare Exterminatus on a hive world and killing billions of people when their is a huge demoniac invasion?

unreal pebble
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Still a different scenario, still a different circus.

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We're talking about Halo, where Insurrectionists were fighting the oppressive colonialist government that insisted on stealing children to try to assassinate people instead of making more reasonable demands or attempting parley.

Not 40K, where the objectively even worse regime is fighting a threat that has no moral ground to stand on, and insists upon spreading disease, degeneracy or mindless bloodshed, with or without the support of the people on the planet, as a corruptive and malevolent hyperspace entity. Entirely different circus.

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There are literal examples of 40K planets rebelling against the Imperium for non-chaotic purposes. Those planets tend to have their entire population genocided afterwards.

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You really need to work on your examples and comparisons, just saying.

fierce zenith
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When the threat is large enough, you cannot have the luxury to be kind. That's why the WH40K Imperium is justified. Not good, but justified.
I was using it as an extreme example to show you that necessity brings hard choices, were morality may be let aside.

But in the end, we just have different point of view on this question.

You want to see the spartan program as an immoral act so you decide that the Insurrection wasn't such a big deal and the UEG should have just let them go.
I want to see the spartan program as a justified act of necessity, so I decided that the Insurrection was a hell of a civil war that would have make humanity crumble.

unreal pebble
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All of this is even funnier to me considering Carver himself eventually realized that his prediction and suggestion only made the problem worse.

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It's literally why he killed himself.

fierce zenith
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That's the entire problem of Isaac Asimov's Fondation story.

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Anyway, the spartans were created because of the Insurrection. Not the other way around.

unreal pebble
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Okay? Nobody said otherwise.

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If you thought I did, you weren't reading as thoroughly as you thought.

fierce zenith
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I'm not saying you did. I want to hammer the point on why the program was seen as necessary.

unreal pebble
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By saying something that had no bearing on the conversation?

carmine salmon
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If you ain't an innie you can get outie

fierce zenith
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Carver's prediction was based on how the Insurrection was going with the information he had at the time. It was one-sided, probably incomplete, and maybe with a lot of false information. But that's still the Insurrection's fault if the conflict went this way.
In an asymmetric war of order against chaos, the one on the side of order has to prepare for the worst.

unreal pebble
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Sounds like victim blaming.

fierce zenith
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Against who? Carver?

unreal pebble
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By forming more aggressive and consistent patterns of offensives against insurrections?

unreal pebble
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"You see, the UEG wasn't at fault here, see, the Insurrectionists forced them to resort to more brutal actions because they uh... Read some books".

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Oh, yeah, sure, the insurrectionists nuked New Haven. That happened after Carver killed himself, that happened after the UNSC had already started escalating the conflict on Carver's word.

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I ain't saying the Insurrectionists were flawless, but it's an incredibly poor judgement to say the Spartan IIs were justified by the Insurrectionist's existence.

fierce zenith
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You cannot negotiate with terrorists, nor predict what they will do with the power at their disposal, because they don't follow the rules.
They are either a threat or a memory.

unreal pebble
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And? What? That justifies the IIs?

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Because the United Rebel Front used terror tactics in a one-sided war against a colonial power with a causus belli of independence?

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Even if the existence of the rebels justifies a military response, that still doesn't justify the IIs. They are a moral red line, not to be crossed. And the UEG crossed it, happily, and people still clumsily attempt to say that the Insurrection forced the UEG, with its power to catalogue and kidnap 150 children, was too weak to use anything else to stop the Insurrection, that Spartan IIs were necessary to make the way they were.

fierce zenith
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You want me to say that the spartan-II program is morally horrible. YES it is, of course.
But you won't make me say that it wasn't necessary. Because it got results, and damn good ones.

And about that red line, lets be honest here: our own governments cross this red line probably multiple times each year, and just by considering what we do know or suspect about what they did. There is probably far more and far scarier on secret files.
That doesn't make it less immoral, it just explains why the UNSC would be more okay to greenlight that kind of project in this situation.

Yes, using children for war is bad. Yes the spartan-II program is also because of some crazy scientist logic of Halsey was so preoccupied with whether or not she could do it that she didn't stop to think if she should. But not only it crushed the Insurrection, but it also created the best soldiers in the entire human history. No other generation of spartan can reach this level of perfection, unless the UNSC do it with children again or discover some Deus Ex Machina forerunner technology. Because their training is a huge part of their strength, and if you repeat the exact same conditions on adults it won't have the same effect. For this alone, the spartan program has some justification.

unreal pebble
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It literally didn't crush the insurrection, because the insurrection was still going strong, still stealing, still justifying its actions.

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They outright failed to do the thing they were outright designed for.

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Because without addressing the root of the problem itself, the UNSC was going to keep dealing with that problem.

verbal fox
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The Spartans did not fail to stop the Insurrection

unreal pebble
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As for the hogwash about "No other generation of spartan can reach this level of perfection", that's entirely your personal opinion. IIIs and IVs have both performed feats that have rivalled or exceeded IIs in various regards since both generation's inception.

fierce zenith
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You don't have to address demands of insurrectionnists. You show them what will happen if they don't stop.

hardy sandal
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nobody said anything about stopping the insurrection

verbal fox
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Unless you are talking within the Silver Timeline

hardy sandal
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the spartans were designed to CRUSH the insurrection

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which they did.

unreal pebble
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Unless you guys hate Reach enough to completely ignore it, which is kinda based I guess.

hardy sandal
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Wasn't reach technically not canon?

unreal pebble
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No, it's canon.

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Unfortunately.

hardy sandal
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i could've sworn it wasn't

verbal fox
hardy sandal
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what's the official source for this?

fierce zenith
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I like Halo Reach for the gameplay, but consider it incompatible with the book, so I choose the book

unreal pebble
hardy sandal
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lmao that's not how canon works

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there's a billion different batman movies. not all of them are canon

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you can't just say "because it's in a game"

unreal pebble
fierce zenith
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Oh no... not reddit

unreal pebble
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Jun pops up in books after Reach, and there are various mentions of Noble Team that take place after Reach as a game.

hardy sandal
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there we go. the person actually proved it wasn't

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read the link you posted to know that

unreal pebble
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????

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The OP's literally wrong, lmao

hardy sandal
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then why did you post him?

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lmao you make zero sense

unreal pebble
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Because of the comments.

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He's literally asking a question, lmao

hardy sandal
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ooohhhh. So the commenters are the final authority

unreal pebble
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If you're asking a damn question, yes.

hardy sandal
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in that case, i comment it isn't

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you're wrong by your logic

verbal fox
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There is a quote from 343 out there about order of lore precedence.
Games are at the top

hardy sandal
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who commented?

unreal pebble
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Jesus.

hardy sandal
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which person at 343?

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is it their job to dictate canon?

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or are they a graphics designer

#

...do you even know?

unreal pebble
#

Wow.

hardy sandal
#

look at this Trench getting angry that he can't answer simple questions

fresh mural
#

Are you implyig Halo Reach isn't canon?
Because it is

hardy sandal
#

he just parrots "it's canon hurr durr" as if he's the authority on that statement

unreal pebble
#

You're basically the pic of the guy saying 'rent free' when everyone's laughing at him for saying something really stupid right now.

hardy sandal
#

he has zero credibility. no background, no source

fresh mural
#

It had discrepancies with the Fall of Reach book when it came out, but the cracks in the continuity have since been fixed with more lore

hardy sandal
#

he's a random on the internet that just angrily wants his opinion to be right

#

my man, you don't sound very convincing rn.

unreal pebble
#

Mediocre troll is mediocre.

hardy sandal
modern basalt
#

There is no halo game that isn't canon, and say that one because of design inconsistences doesn't make sense

hardy sandal
#

there's nothing trolly about getting to a source

fresh mural
#

My man, everything that is made for a franchise will always be canon UNLESS the creators and people in charge of the project directly specify that one particular production isn't

verbal fox
#

I love that this channel has been conquered by canon

fierce zenith
#

I can't keep up with this craziness.
It's past midnight here so I'm going to bed, but thanks anyway for the discussion, @unreal pebble , always interesting to see another opinion on the lore, as long as it's well articulated.

We are basically the perfect representation of insurrection ideology and spartan ideology, you and I. That's why we cannot agree on this subject.
I'll see you on the battlefield, Innie.

modern basalt
#

Halo 1,2,3,4,5,odst and infinite are canon
Why reach will not be canon?

hardy sandal
#

originally I'm pretty sure reach wasn't made to be canon. I could be wrong but i distinctly remember somebody saying reach was not canon, and that this person also worked for 343

unreal pebble
#

I'm pretty sure I said it at least twice.

hardy sandal
fresh mural
#

It was always canon, the problem was with Bungie ignoring the books and making their games without caring if their decisions would mess up with the continuity or not
But canon it is

hardy sandal
#

Halo the series isn't canon

unreal pebble
#

I'm saying the UNSC wasn't justified in making the IIs and that they didn't prosecute their actions properly, not that the Innies are actually right about everything they did.

verbal fox
#

Look, Reach and the Fall of Reach are equally canon, you just need to do bunch of mental leaps to make it connected

modern basalt
#

That is DC
Where are talking about halo
A tame franchise

fresh mural
verbal fox
#

Reason being, Bungie didn't like the books

modern basalt
#

Not a movie and series franchise

hardy sandal
modern basalt
#

And the halo series is confirmed to not be canon

verbal fox
verbal fox
hardy sandal
#

If the books and the games are different universes that literally require timeline jumping and 4th wall breaking inconsistencies...they are literally not

fresh mural
#

They aren't different universes

verbal fox
fresh mural
#

Like I said, further lore fixed the discrepancies between the movie and the game

hardy sandal
#

so before making another hurr durr counterargument, lets get a quote from a credible source

#

I'll brb to look for one

modern basalt
hardy sandal
#

since noone else is

fierce zenith
hardy sandal
fresh mural
#

You can even apply the same to the animated adaptation of the Fall of Reach
It changes things from the lore to accomodate its format, but it still tells a canon story

modern basalt
#

The ending of halo reach conects with halo 1

hardy sandal
unreal pebble
fresh mural
verbal fox
modern basalt
#

Buck appears in reach
And in odst he mentions it

hardy sandal
#

ok brb actually now before i lose my mind communicating with these ppl

modern basalt
#

Dawg be like:
If this is hard to explain is not canon

verbal fox
#

The timeline of events of Reach vs Fall of Reach is the issue.
Are they irreconcilable? No.
Is it a stretch is some areas? Yeah.
But generally the Fall of Reach occurs on a singular ish day on the more militarized side of Reach.
Reach the game takes place over a couple of weeks prior to that single climactic ending battle.

unreal pebble
fresh mural
unreal pebble
#

Why are any of you shocked?

modern basalt
#

I have a question
Why this conversation started here?

unreal pebble
#

Which part?

verbal fox
unreal pebble
#

The show does touch on the evils of the Spartan program, so that part's not that weird.

modern basalt
#

The part of reach not being canon

verbal fox
unreal pebble
#

That Halsey canonically considered, amusingly.

verbal fox
#

Emotional pellets? Give me a break.

unreal pebble
#

Emotional suppressants was apparently something she canonically considered, but in the main timeline she rejected them for the exact reason they fail in the show.

verbal fox
fresh mural
#

Would you prefer a show without emotional moments to understand or root for a character?

unreal pebble
#

I think that's an interesting what if tbh

unreal pebble
verbal fox
#

Lazy writing

unreal pebble
#

Because Reach is kind of the example pre-Glasslands that the insurrectionists were alive and well.

fresh mural
#

You can't make an emotional story in canon with adult Master Chief because in canon he was never lied to, he became a soldier always knowing who he was. By the time Halo CE takes place he doesn't care that he was kidnapped as a child anymore

modern basalt
verbal fox
#

Instead of exploring the deep impacts of psychological conditioning, MCGUFFIN

unreal pebble
#

There's also the fact that the independent republic of Gao is literally an insurrectionist state post-war, and apparently had been that way long enough to develop its own engineering system.

#

Which implies it was like that for most of the war and the HCW kinda just gave it an excuse to have a clean break.

verbal fox
#

So that's just false

fresh mural
unreal pebble
#

Or show master chief, for that matter.

verbal fox
unreal pebble
#

Either way, Gao was a major Insurrection world and still maintains its HCW era independence through a mix of UNSC weakness (Can't take back the territory), strong anti-UEG sentiment, and national identity.

verbal fox
unreal pebble
#

I like how Gao straight up has knock-off ODSTs called "Battle Jumpers".

verbal fox
#

But, yeah, still basically Innies

#

Venezia is the real terror hotbed though

hardy sandal
idle pawn
hardy sandal
#

according to Halopedia, Halo Reach is canon

fresh mural
verbal fox
#

But neither Venezia or Gao tie themselves with other Insurrectionist groups directly, like Zane's.

hardy sandal
#

idk who you mean by we, i didn't leave a book

unreal pebble
#

Leadership wise, the Insurrection was also both gutted, given respite, and put on hold during the HCW, to varying degrees depending on sub organization and situation.

#

Apparently many even joined the UNSC, recognizing the threat of the Covenant.

#

But that has nothing to really do with the IIs working as intended as people tout, and more to do with the scope of threat the Covenant presented and the UNSC's suddenly drastically tightened belt inadvertently giving some rebel groups the relative freedom they wanted.

hardy sandal
#

Looks like the insurrection was crushed to me.

fresh mural
#

One has all the reason to believe Johnson died in CE because of 3 reasons
1: He was last seen in the Marine recording encountering the Flood, an encounter no one survived
2: His only future appearance after that is in the Legendary ending, and even leaving aside that said portion was a simple joke, it doesn't seem like he or the Elite had any ship to escape the ring mere seconds before destruction
3: Halo CE wasn't made with a sequel at the time. Much less Cortana not picking up anything else than "dust and echoes" after escaping

hardy sandal
fresh mural
hardy sandal
#

what feelings?

fresh mural
#

If you believe it is canon or not it doesn't matter because that choice relies on other people

hardy sandal
modern basalt
hardy sandal
#

^ "hurr durr" see previous comment

toxic warren
fresh mural
#

So if you were "just asking", why did you debate it at all after people here explicitely told you that it indeed is canon?

hardy sandal
#

thank you but i already figured that out myself. no thanks to these splerging gentlemen

hardy sandal
fresh mural
hardy sandal
#

a debate requires 2 argumsnts

hardy sandal
#

lol. look at the blame shifting

#

I'm only entertaining your comments that are directed at me, with replies, because I'm polite.

toxic warren
#

Why don't we move on from this now - switch over to #lore-and-universe if we want to further talk about what's canon and what isn't. Keep this chat focused on the TV show

hardy sandal
#

thank you.

fresh mural
#

"So I'm gonna ask if Reach is canon or not, but I'm still going to explain and insist why I consider it isn't after people tell me that it is canon", is that what you were planning?
Because that is exactly what happened

hardy sandal
#

Anyway, i love the tv show

#

honestly some of the best fight scenes I've seen in the Halo universe

verbal fox
hardy sandal
#

can't wait for season 2

#

anyone know if it's gonna release episode per episode or all at once?

fresh mural
#

The action in the show is really good

toxic warren
#

At least it was episodic in the UK

fresh mural
#

I think you mean S1, and yes it was episodic

toxic warren
#

yep, typo

hardy sandal
#

i hope one day we get a rvb cameo

verbal fox
hardy sandal
#

which would you rank above?

verbal fox
#

Halo Wars

fresh mural
verbal fox
fresh mural
#

That cutscene fight in Halo Wars is pretty cool but I think people forget that it's just one cutscene, it's not even fair to compare one sequence with a whole season of episodes

hardy sandal
# verbal fox Halo Wars

i really enjoyed them, but they were very short. Other than the one in HW1 when forge sacrificed himself

#

but the one against Atriox 🔥🔥🔥🔥

verbal fox
#

Halo Wars 1, the Captain's Report intro sequence and the Spartans vs Elites
HW2: Jerome vs the Banished, Red Team vs Atriox.
Landfall.
We Are ODST.
Deliver Hope

fresh mural
#

I don't wanna get with all of them

hardy sandal
#

I'll give you this, those were all much greater when it comes to emotional content

fresh mural
#

But We Are ODST and Deliver Hope only have mere seconds of action, and even then it's mostly the character running and shooting their gun

hardy sandal
#

but as for hype...guys...they gave a jackal an energy blade

#

that's hype af

fresh mural
#

There is more action in the Scanned trailer for Halo 4

verbal fox
#

Oh and who can forget Halo Legends: Prototype AND The Package

hardy sandal
#

lol the package

fresh mural
#

That one is unfair

hardy sandal
#

100000% dragonball z based

fresh mural
#

Animation and Live Action should never be compared

verbal fox
hardy sandal
#

or should i say...over 9,000%

#

i mean...it's all animated

#

aliens don't actually exist

fresh mural
#

There are actual people doing motion capture for those
Can't say the same about the Halo Legends anime or 3D portions

verbal fox
#

SODAZ's film, even though it isn't canon.
But nor is the TV Show, so it easily trumps that.

hardy sandal
#

rvb fight scenes 🔥🔥🔥

solar wagon
toxic warren
#

There's no need to respond if you're doing that

solar wagon
#

I wanna make it known

#

I’m a hyper lethal rated hater

toxic warren
#

In future, don't. You're only baiting and it's not needed

little anvil
# hardy sandal rvb fight scenes 🔥🔥🔥

After they hired on Monty, sure.
Before that it was all in-machinima and therefor kind of just...the same as every other machinima fight of the time.
They did pioneer the intermixing of animation and gameplay tho.

#

I miss Monty.

#

SODAZ is, in truth, passable.
His material is a faint echo of Astartes, which set the bar for fanwork, and could use quite a bit more polish.

Its mostly ripped models being put through stopmotion animation in...Blender, maybe?

Even then its nowhere near Monty's animation even in early RvB stuff. Or even Haloid for that matter.

mighty yew
#

SODAZ uses SFM

little anvil
#

Ah well that explains some of it then.

ashen oasis
#

Well the halo tv series will continue to show “master chief’s” face in the seasons to come

#

So let’s forget trying to make it like the halo books and games

#

Maybe a noble six series with directors trying to make it like the games and books would be a banger

idle pawn
#

You do realise chief shows his face & occasionally takes his helmet off in the books right?

verbal fox
#

And in far more logical situations

#

But as far as the Viewer is concerned, you never see his face once the helmet goes on UNTIL he is back to Earth after the HCW.

mighty yew
#

Oh my god are you all still on this topic?

#

It's been days

verbal fox
#

I mean we talked about Reach (game) vs Fall of Reach (book) for a bit, that was funny

#

We enthused about some very excellent canon films, like Legends

#

But yes, it is still a relevant sticking point

little anvil
fresh mural
#

The Master Chief constantly takes his helmet off in the books, and in the games we've also seen it a couple times

#

I completely understand that he is an iconic videogame mascot and part of not having a face makes him an effective tool for the players to invest in the story using him as an avatar of sorts

#

But that is exclusively for gameplay purposes and us, the audience

#

There is no actual in-universe reason for him to not show his face in either the canon lore or the show
He's not like the Mandalorians who keep their helmets on out of tradition and oath
His face being hidden is not justified within the story

twin quiver
ashen oasis
twin quiver
#

And halo 4 they only showed his eyes which isn’t too much, but just enough to give him a human feel

ashen oasis
#

Im not saying he doesn’t take his helmet off at all, what im saying is the tv show just took it off way to much even when he’s on a mission

#

Also isn’t master chief bald?

twin quiver
#

Not sure if he is bald, but he is always described as shaved

ashen oasis
#

I think he is shaved/bald

#

But in the tv show he has a nice haircut 😂

twin quiver
ashen oasis
#

Only Steve downes can voice master chief

twin quiver
#

Agreed on that. Anything else just feels wrong

ashen oasis
#

But doesn’t have his voice

twin quiver
ashen oasis
carmine salmon
#

It's the beard for me tbh

#

But jorge had a sick mustache so w/e

shell shale
#

Pablo’s comments are so ignorant and misinformed

#

There have been so many helmeted/masked characters in fiction that’re beloved, and through voice acting & body movement, we’re able to discern what the character is thinking or feeling

#

Mandalorian alone disproves his point

#

Same with Darth Vader, Judge Dredd, V, and countless others

unreal pebble
#

He has a right to his opinion. And frankly, I don't think it's incorrect to say it's far more challenging to pull off.

#

I typed a massive spiel about it earlier, but most people here are more intent on just insulting the guy than giving good feedback.

unreal pebble
shell shale
#

When he has a bad take, it’s no wonder people are calling him out

unreal pebble
#

Because apparently people need to be reminded about how they are the ignorant one about the Mandalorian thing.

unreal pebble
shell shale
unreal pebble
#

They really don't.

#

"And it's not like you can even use some bull about "Oh well Chief keeps his helmet on all the time", because in-universe that's not even true in the main continuity-Chief's been disarmored a lot in the novels, because he isn't a character who is culturally inclined to keep his armor on at all times like the Mandalorian. He is a warfighter, not an unthinking, unfeeling death golem who has nobody to answer to and an actual aversion to not wearing his armor."

shell shale
#

Not many fans are arguing that he should never be shown to be helmetmess
Fans have an issue when it’s almost the entire show
When he takes his helmet off, it should be a special moment, something for the audience to savor
But Paramount thinks “If we dint show his face 90% of the show, how can audiences relate to him?”

unreal pebble
#

Many fans can and have argued never.

#

Fans also have an issue with the show in general.

#

Fans also pretend that it's something more special than narratively acceptable or relevant outside of the fantasy world they live in where Chief's face is revered with the decorum meant for the corpses of the holy.

ashen oasis
#

Forward unto dawn was good

shell shale
unreal pebble
#

See? Bad faith.

ashen oasis
unreal pebble
#

I'm sure there's a better choice for every role, but the showrunners chose them and he's who they could get.

#

That's kinda just how it works.

#

Unless there was a very real possibility, the moment is past and the situation involved is in the past. No point in pontificating on it.

ashen oasis
#

The show is on its own timeline which kind of sucks since the original timeline is the best in my opinion

twin quiver
#

I think the majority of people enjoy a good mystery where it is left to their own interpretation. Like many subjects within halo, and his face is one of them. Chief is for all intents and purposes the ‘Jesus Christ’ of halo. A once in a thousand generation human whose combination of hard work and luck is very, very rare

unreal pebble
#

I just don't see the point of that kind of decorum. It's absurd.

#

Granted, the past decade hasn't exactly done much to dissuade people. But then I'd be in an argument in the weeds about disliking things that lead to things and led to things, and that's just a circular argument that wastes time.

ashen oasis
unreal pebble
#

And what would "Halo vibes" be, exactly?

shell shale
unreal pebble
#

Oh, I have no issue with criticism. So long as it is founded and made in good faith.

ashen oasis
unreal pebble
#

I have plenty of criticisms with the show. But I'm not going to call a veteran actor an idiot for having a different opinion.

shell shale
unreal pebble
#

Did you know that 87% of statistics are made up on the spot?

#

I don't care what percentage you claim are apparently upstanding citizens who have never said anything in anger, with clarity in their words and heart.

#

I know it's not true, because I have been shown, time and time again, that it isn't true.

ashen oasis
unreal pebble
#

Which is a circular argument. I don't disagree that it's a poor judgement call overall, but I also firmly believe it's a product of its environment and not worth getting worked up over like it's some sort of national tragedy.

unreal pebble
ashen oasis
unreal pebble
#

I mean, I literally am one of those.

#

Not one of the people upset, but someone who is, by my own repentant admission, incredibly nerdy about Halo.

ashen oasis
#

since when does master chief do it with an enemy... like come on bro

unreal pebble
#

There is a level of clarity that a lot of people strongly lack when it comes to extended media in franchises they like, and a lot of people struggle with that.

#

Small issues are magnified, to the point of large narrative issues getting avoided. The constant idioms of missing forests for trees and mountains of molehills.

unreal pebble
#

The other is the scientist creep who sniffed the Clonetana or whatever.

ashen oasis
#

lol

unreal pebble
#

Preaching to the choir.

twin quiver
#

That’s when the show version officially became master cheeks

ashen oasis
#

hes just another spartan in my mind in another universe

unreal pebble
#

Back to my point earlier about people getting mad about everything, though. They'd rather obsess over the negative than look at the positives, and above even that they'd rather complain about easy targets without getting into a nuanced conversation that requires a more critical eye than just 'thing bad, me no like'.

twin quiver
#

Or Johnny cheeks

ashen oasis
unreal pebble
#

Like, I'm an extremely analytical person. I find comfort in the details, I find little parts of scenes part of what makes or breaks a scene, because they are deliberate, purposeful.

ashen oasis
unreal pebble
ashen oasis
#

Because i dont think any series listens to their audience when they dont get harsh criticism

unreal pebble
#

And you'd be surprised. If anything, a lot of Halo's decisions have been made based off of poor reactionary judgement calls to extreme backlash.

#

And being told day in, day out, that your product and by extension you are trash, not worth the effort, that you should lay down and die instead of doing what you are passionate about, weighs on people. Heavily.

#

People vastly underestimate the lengths others will go to to make their displeasure known.

twin quiver
#

To be fair, slightly off subject, but I believe humans more so remember the negative/bad over the good, because that is an instinctual advantage. Not that it means anything for something as meaningless as media, but I believe that’s why people fixate over it

unreal pebble
#

Oh, that's absolutely why. I hate it vehemently.

ashen oasis
unreal pebble
#

It's too complex of an issue to solve with anything approaching rapidity because it's engrained into the human psyche as a weaponized kneejerk reaction in the modern social media space. Which, sounds, y'know, tinfoily, but still.

ashen oasis
#

I think halo fans should just leave this series and make a noble six series come to life

unreal pebble
#

If you really wanted a show that explores interpersonal conflict and drama, there's great avenues pre and post war to do it.

#

In canon.

#

We've touched on both plenty at this point.

#

But you have limited funding, so it's not as simple as just 'we'll make a show about the Spartan who appeared in one game' or 'we'll make a show about a squad of Spartans who are coping with a new world after the HCW is over' and whatnot.

ashen oasis
unreal pebble
#

And even then, with corporations acting as they do, you'll never get a complete picture, as someone in the bleachers.

ashen oasis
#

I just want a halo show that sticks to the halo lore and has a good budget 😭

unreal pebble
#

Dreams are preem.

ashen oasis
#

Halo reach series would be the perfect opportunity for a great series if they follow lore

#

but probably wont happen so ill stick to the games for now

wary wind
#

I have no doubt that the action will most likely deliver just like S1 did but can't say the same about the story.

wary wind
shell shale
#

You expect Thel is gonna be in the season, or they’re gonna omit him?

fierce zenith
#

Maybe.
If the showrunners are looking to make more surface-level fanservice to distract people from the worst aspects of the script, they could bring him on. But I would bet on him making just an short apparition, just to say "See? He's here!" and then let people get crazy thinking about what could happen next.

steel marsh
#

I used to not like the show, but overtime i realized how painstaking making a tv show in a huge studio system can be. I still have my gripes, but i appreciate they want to improve with season 2.

#

My big question is will jazwares make toys of this shows version of the chief and crew?

unreal pebble
fierce zenith
unreal pebble
#

That username...

#

So far, Megabloks has showcased several sets of show themed figures.

fierce zenith
#

Yeah, but that's low cost product

unreal pebble
#

So are the World of Halo figures, honestly.

#

I've owned enough, they're... Kinda bad.

#

Not quite "Halo 3 Mcfarlane Elite" bad, but edging on that territory.

fierce zenith
#

So anything is possible. At least that's optimistic

unreal pebble
#

Except for GETTING THE GEN2 LOCKE FIGURE IN THE US APPARENTLY

#

When people wonder why I start a war with Canada in the future, the lopsided distro of the Locke figures will be at the top of the list.

#

... I don't think I have to explain that that's a joke. But the distro really is just so messed up.

tawdry kestrel
fierce zenith
#

We have enough trouble here in France to just have translation for the books beyond the Forerunner trilogy.

#

I get all my books directly in English but there is a large part of the community here that cannot keep up with the lore because they don't have access to the new books in their native language.

fierce zenith
#

Tropic Thunder was also a big warning about how modern movies are working.

steel marsh
tawdry kestrel
steel marsh
#

Also lord of the rings had alot of good luck.

#

Moreau was a shitaki storm

tawdry kestrel
steel marsh
#

It is and its a shame the halo movie was scrapped.

#

I love district 9, but damn what a waste.

#

Still better than avatar.

tawdry kestrel
unreal pebble
#

Everything I've heard of the story for Halo's movie was... Questionable.

steel marsh
#

I have the Alex garland script.

#

Its almost word for word CE

unreal pebble
#

My brain goes to flood brothers.

tawdry kestrel
#

Believe it or not, transfering it to another visual medium provides lots of changes

steel marsh
#

Its a shame, i hope if the show does good it shows investors a movie is possible.

fierce zenith
steel marsh
#

A reboot with the rock as master chief where he keeps the helmet on.

steel marsh
unreal pebble
#

Wasting your billing on The Rock then, which is exactly why it wouldn't happen.

tawdry kestrel
#

I mean, obviously a 100% accurate movie is impossible, and they can still find ways to adapt scenes from the game while changing it to suit the runtime

unreal pebble
#

Also, Chief doffs his armor in CE's course of events, if you want it to be canonically accurate.

#

Also, holy hell, can we move past Chief.

steel marsh
#

I never liked CEs armor

tawdry kestrel
#

He's like Xbox's mascot

unreal pebble
#

Don't care.

steel marsh
#

I feel if tou adapt it for film, you gotta make it like Reaches suits.

#

Or give him legends armor.

#

Like forward unto dawn.

fierce zenith
steel marsh
#

The main character should be chief, but the main focus is cortana

#

Or just have it he them both bouncing off eachoher.

fierce zenith
#

Strangely, the Silver Timeline could have been the opportunity to give the same story but with a different hero. They didn't choose that.

tawdry kestrel
steel marsh
#

Is halo cursed by peter jackson?

unreal pebble
#

Yes.

#

It's cursed in general, really, I don't really know or care who cursed it.

fierce zenith
#

Please do elaborate

steel marsh
#

He used his new zealand hobbit magic to curse it.

fierce zenith
#

TLOTR set the bar really high and now we expect the same quality level on every adaptation project
But it worked because it had a combination of really good choices. First of all, having people who LOVE THE SOURCE MATERIAL to work on it.

fresh mural
fierce zenith
#

It was a promotional material to set the story of Lasky. So it received a lot of help from the H4 team.

#

And Forward Unto Dawn is also the good example of how to handle Chief in live action : not the center of the story, do his job when needed, don't say much and stay mysterious.

verbal fox
idle pawn
#

Halo Forward Unto Dawn isn't good example. For hardcore Halo game fans, sure. But anyone else no, literally no.

#

Theres a critic review in Rotten Tomatoes that sums up why:

#

"Halo 4: Forward unto Dawn" may have had a goal of broadening the audience beyond gamers, but the film is so close to watching a video game for the second action-filled half and the set-up so pedestrian that I don't see non-gamers becoming fans.

fierce zenith
tawdry kestrel
#

I'm with this guy

#

It just hurt to look at

#

But then again maybe I'm misremembering how the armor looked

#

What I can say for certain is that halo 4 and 5 armor for Master Chief and pretty much all Spartans was just bad it didn't really even look like mule near armor it just looked like armored Power Rangers with extra steps

#

One of the very few things that the creators for the Halo series and Halo infinite did right was using the original armor style although granted I think they could have handled the armor cores better... Much better

#

But I'm getting sidetracked

#

What I want to know is why didn't the creators just make the Halo series based off the books like sure we got the books turned into movies already but they never captured the full scope of the book Heck they didn't even capture half of it

toxic warren
# tawdry kestrel What I want to know is why didn't the creators just make the Halo series based o...

The talked about that in here:
https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/silver-debrief-a-new-beginning

Silver Debrief: A New Beginning

DEBRIEF 001 A new beginning is upon us… Halo the television series is coming soon, and we promised at the end of last year that the time was fast approaching for us to spin up the slipspace drive and talk about what this monumental endeavor means for the future of the Halo universe. That time […]

tawdry kestrel
#

Yes I know that but when I say I don't know why I mean the reason doesn't make any sense

#

They want to attract More people and potentially gain more fans but the way they're going about it is that they're sacrificing the interest of the original fans

toxic warren
#

I'm an original fan and I'm still very much interested

tawdry kestrel
#

If you want to attract more people then use the original material and build off of it

dreamy stirrup
#

I know a good amount of people who never played the game but like the series

dreamy stirrup
fierce zenith
#

FUD also made an excellent job on Fred and Kelly to make them look both young, strong and inhuman (it takes place in 2525 so they are 14-15 I think, but could be mistaken for young adults anyway because of how buffed they are). In the Silver Timeline, we just have normal generic actors without any sign of augmentation beside their hight.

idle pawn
tawdry kestrel
dreamy stirrup
#

Hoomans

tawdry kestrel
#

I think everyone's misunderstanding what I mean when I say based off of

tawdry kestrel
#

Not humans

#

That was the first thing they changed to the plot

dreamy stirrup
#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

toxic warren
#

Do you mean in the games? That was something even Bungie was split on, but it's absolutely not a conversation I want us diving into here. It's been done to death recently

tawdry kestrel
#

I was really excited to see Halo 4 add to the plot but it just changed it now Halo 4 was a decent game but it only was as popular as it was because of the drama

tawdry kestrel
idle pawn
#

Ancient humans & them being tied to Forerinners are still factor in Halo lore, idk why some Halo fans are still upset just because Forerunners were specifically a different race that existed with them.

tawdry kestrel
#

I just don't see how they could have overlooked one of 343 Guilty Spark's most famous lines where he confirmed that the humans are the forerunners

tawdry kestrel
toxic warren
#

As I said, I don't want us getting into this here - keep it to the TV show please

tawdry kestrel
#

I was just answering a question

#

Apologies

fierce zenith
tawdry kestrel
#

By the way no offense but I'm not really sure you can entirely blame us You only made a Halo series chat room You didn't make one exclusively for the games

tawdry kestrel
#

One of the things that made Master Chief special in my eyes is that he wasn't special in the normal sense

toxic warren
tawdry kestrel
#

He wasn't the strongest or the fastest or even the smartest He was the most lucky

toxic warren
fierce zenith
toxic warren
#

and lore, yes

fierce zenith
#

But honestly, I don't expect the show to go deep into the nature of the Forerunner, except if they find a way to use it for some other social comment and projection of our modern society's problems (according to them, of course).

tawdry kestrel
fierce zenith
# tawdry kestrel I see, apologies

Don't be sorry. You have a good argument, it just needs to be linked to something in the serie.
Most problems we have with the canon could also exist in the Silver Timelines.
Because the TV shows relies heavily on us filling the blanks with what we know from canon to explain what they don't show us.

tawdry kestrel
#

I used to love Star Wars so much I didn't really know why until it was ruined by the sequel trilogy

fierce zenith
#

Halo and Star Wars have a LOT of common problems in story, production, marketing and community management.

tawdry kestrel
#

You mean current day Halo and Star Wars as connected to either series

fierce zenith
#

Yes, the latest productions, not ancient stuff
And just to be clear, I'm not setting some stupid line of Bungie good and 343 bad. There is good and bad on both sides. It just go downhill to hell lately

tawdry kestrel
#

I agree

fierce zenith
#

343 do a way better job on the extended universe, but the Reclaimer Saga was as incoherent between each episodes as the Sequels of Star Wars.
So it's no surprise to see them having such difficulty to handle a TV show on a different timeline

tawdry kestrel
#

I will admit that I was once ignorant to believe that Bungie was good and three for three was bad but overtime I began to understand things better

tawdry kestrel
#

I think the thing that still keeps me hoping for Star Wars and Halo are the stories that are made by the fans in fan fictions which in my opinion should tell people that in my eyes halo and Star Wars are both running on fumes if you can even consider non-canon and non-profit stories to be fumes

fierce zenith
tawdry kestrel
#

Oh no yh is my way of making a short version of yeah

tawdry kestrel
#

United States

fierce zenith
#

Thanks for the clarification, it will help me for futur messages

tawdry kestrel
#

No problem hopefully this doesn't mean any ill will in the future

#

So what helps keep your hope in halo and Star Wars ruining

toxic warren
fierce zenith
#

Same as you: fan projects.
I have many of my own, mostly writing.

#

There is a formula for each platform.

#

By the way, it's interesting to see that the official Halo on Paramount Twitter account didn't post anything since November.

toxic warren
#

A lot of companies have stopped advertising there

fierce zenith
#

There is a difference between adds and posts from official accounts.
And Paramount's main account Is still posting

But if they choose to stop everything on Twitter, why do they still have an account there?

toxic warren
#

In the event things change

wraith plover
#

And avoid usurpation

fierce zenith
dreamy stirrup
#

Who hurt you, Jack.

fierce zenith
#

Was it a question?

dreamy stirrup
#

I'm just sensing a lot of hate and criticism when this is supposed to be a place to appreciate that we have a Halo show in our timeline

fierce zenith
#

Sorry, I didn't see that in the chat description. Maybe I missed something.
Where is the debate area, if there is any?

toxic warren
#

The constant negativity is tiring, especially when the majority of the time it's taking pot shots at the producers and other staff. It puts people who genuinely enjoy it off of engaging here

#

Like you can be negative about the show, that's absolutely fine, nobody is saying you have to love it and praise it, but the constructive part of the criticism just never seems to materialize

fierce zenith
#

I may be one of the most constructive critics to write here these last 24h.

toxic warren
#

I may be one of the most constructive critics to write here these last 24h.

Usurpateurs may be able to make a better marketing campaign and community management 🤣
Pick one

tawdry kestrel
#

FUD part was constructive tbh

fierce zenith
#

Look at all my post for the last day.
Don't just pick the one that you want to put on spotlight to prove a point.

toxic warren
#

It's just an amusing contrast that that was your most recent messages

#

Anyways, back on topic again

#

For anyone that missed it - there are a bunch of new posters that got dropped in each of the #1194429854620319855 forum - they're also posted in Instagram too

#

Hopefully we get a new one today 🤞

sinful crown
#

ok just watched the season 2 trailer that was fire its the FALL OF REACH thats mean as i hope by change noble team is in it surley

dreamy stirrup
sinful crown
#

?

dreamy stirrup
#

I'm assuming you're too young to understand that reference

sinful crown
#

you could say that or i havent even seen the show/movie but i aint that that younge

dreamy stirrup
#

Watch the movie Airplanes

#

80's comedy at it's finest

sinful crown
#

algds

sinful crown
dreamy stirrup
#

go to your profile and change your name under "server profile"

sinful crown
#

shot

unreal pebble
#

TIL a lot of the current arguments about Pablo were spurred on by an interview that popped up 2 years ago.

#

💀

west pike
#

So I notice a lot of different talking points about the show here, and I know I'm just some random dude so my opinion isn't worth anything on the internet... but I feel like we should be looking at why the show is what it is instead of having all these knee jerk reactions to what we see being done. I am one of those people that doesn't like the changes, I also believe saying "it's a different timeline" is both lazy and disrespectful as there was no request or need for a new timeline except to shoehorn personal ideas into a well established IP. I think that's fair criticism seeing as it reeks of being made to profit from Hollywood and not entertain existing fans. If this show was made for existing fans it would be in the same universe and explore wars and details we've been BEGGING for. I don't hate the show because it's different, I dislike it because it's what the industry wanted and not what we wanted.

Side note: this doesn't discredit the absolute painstaking effort it took for the individuals who actually made this show. It is visually pleasing and fun to watch. It's just not Halo, it's a Hollywood show made to look like our favorite game.

toxic warren
#

343 already explained why they went this route

fierce zenith
toxic warren
unreal pebble
#

Full disclosure, people kept framing it as new when they quoted it at me, and you can't exactly go and view Pablo Schrieber's twitter posts. Goes to show you can't trust Halo fans with anything.

kind dirge
west pike
# toxic warren https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/silver-debrief-a-new-beginning

This only proves my point... they couldn't stand the fact that they couldn't do what the entertainment industry wants so they had to say "it's a new timeline!" To save face that they're just making a modernized version of something already made.

The reasoning while sounding genuine, the product shows it was just for easier shoehorning of their own ideas.

kind dirge
#

You really don't get how absurd that sounds? Those people trying to make art....they wanted to put their own ideas into it! How dare they!

west pike
toxic warren
#

... I don't hate the show because it's different, I dislike it because it's what the industry wanted and not what **we **wanted.
You don't speak for everyone on this, certainly not me

unreal pebble
#

Because most of em ain't meeting my standards right now.

kind dirge
#

A fan has an opinion. The fans have millions of them. When the fans have all your opinions something is wrong.

west pike
unreal pebble
#

Improving your attitude is free.

west pike
west pike
fierce zenith
#

In the end, every argument on the internet becomes personnal
Because people can't agree on facts nor opinions, so they retreat into ad hominem attacks

west pike
#

Yeah but this isnt...

toxic warren
west pike
#

But back to my point, I think fans would have appreciated a story that explored the many things we wanted to see made into a live action show and not this fiction inspired by it.

unreal pebble
west pike
#

I don't remember fans asking for a retelling you know?

unreal pebble
#

Is... Is that a joke?

toxic warren
#

What fans what and what is feasibly possible within timescales, budgets, etc, isn't always going to mesh

#

They tried for the better part of a decade, on and off, to get moving on stuff like this

fierce zenith
#

You can't give everyone what they want, because they all want something different (and they often want the impossible). But you can give most of them what they need. Propose something new and GOOD.

I just can't consider that season 1 was good nor needed.

west pike
#

*sorry for the ping

#

Also if any of those things were actually constraints fans wouldn't be able to make better content, yet they have.

kind dirge
#

Okay. One....stop speaking for 'the fans'; just state your own opinions. You don't sound more important or have more to offer when you do that, you just sound disingenuous.
Two: Stop saying things that have no meaning like 'that's the easiest path to make a show' if you want to make an actual criticism you have to have a salient point and suggest a better way to do it.
Three: Better is a matter of opinon when it comes to content. You don't mean 'A' makes better content than 'B' what you're actually meaning I like 'A' better than "B." and while you may have reasons for liking it (which you've not explained) that doesn't mean anything beyond that you like it more.

west pike
#

Sorry ...

#

I was merely saying what I saw and trying to translate it in a way that wasn't a deaththreat or useless tirade.

#

But there was my own opinion in there

unreal pebble
#

You could present your own opinion better if you weren't wrapping it as everyone's.

west pike
#

Not everyone's, just most.

unreal pebble
#

Potato potato.

west pike
#

There's a lot of angry people

#

So it isn't wrong to say it's a lot of people with the same feelings. But that wasn't my reason for speaking

unreal pebble
#

A lot of people being angry doesn't mean that their reasons for being angry are valid or correct.

#

Or exhaustively researched or understood.

west pike
#

That's why I'm trying to convey it better

fierce zenith
# west pike Well it certainly does look like they chose the easiest path to making a halo sh...

I don't think they choose the easier path. In the story department, maybe, but on the production level they made the hardest choice : a Halo TV series is a lot more difficult and expensive to produce in live action than in full-3D (like The Clone Wars) or in digital art (like Arcane), because of all the space stuffs, aliens, battles and all. This is the first choice that created limits in story feasibility.
It needed a lot of work from actors, props creators, logistic, etc.

west pike
#

It means there's people disappointed, not satisfied, unhappy with the product presented, and most likely want something better

twin quiver
#

I do so wish they would make halo tv shows and movies animated. I feel like the super human nature of Spartans wouldn’t look so odd as it does in live action

west pike
#

The Halo Legends movie was definitely a W for everyone

steady bough
west pike
#

They made something that expanded instead of changed and it was widely accepted

unreal pebble
#

Hell no it ain't.

toxic warren
steady bough
fierce zenith
unreal pebble
#

Thel 2 terror

steady bough
#

Like the four extra “washouts” from Homecoming, for one.

Solomon, Daisy, and Arthur’s deaths, for two.

The Duel’s art style, while beautiful, had a pretty negative impact on how the wider community perceived Sangheili.

Origins I & II have caused issues to this day because people take it as fact which not only directly contradicts the forerunner trilogy, it also contradicts the games themselves. (And Cortana directly stating in the story that the events are her own musings and probably incorrect)

The Package and the events therein just… existing, really.

unreal pebble
#

The Package will always be remembered as that time Fortnite guy died in Halo and Halsey tried hair dye.

#

Which is funny, because Fortnite came out after Halo Legends.

steady bough
#

And the hair.

We’re still dealing from Halsey’s legends appearances basically causing a flat retcon.

And it’s not even a good one.

#

She should have glasses

And (when she’s younger) black hair.

unreal pebble
#

At least prototype and babysitter don't really have anything wrong with them.

fierce zenith
#

Prototype made the suit a bit (a lot) too much over-powered

#

But yes, it's the safest of all on the lore

#

Mainly because it doesn't touch to spartans

shell shale
#

Then there’s Odd One Out

#

Which is 100% canon

toxic warren
shell shale
#

😝

verbal fox
steady bough
west pike
#

Wait so are we saying that because the halo legends was knitpicked by hard-core lore savants it was bad?

unreal pebble
#

I mean, that's actually not that weird considering Halsey canonically finds John attractive. Just mostly weird.

steady bough
verbal fox
#

See, in my opinion, Origin's is from Cortana's perspective as she is descending into rampancy, so she is an unreliable narrator

fierce zenith
shell shale
steady bough
#

There are issues with everything.

unreal pebble
west pike
steady bough
#

Genuine criticism does exist with both the TV show and other Halo properties.

fierce zenith
verbal fox
#

Visuals wise, Halsey having blond hair and looking way too young can be compared to the FUD becoming an entirely different ship aftering being sawed in half

#

You are just asked to ignore it

west pike
#

So every fan can't provide it unless adept in it.

verbal fox
unreal pebble
#

I swear, it's like a damn circle with you people.

#

Fitting for a franchise about rings.

steady bough
steady bough
fierce zenith
west pike
unreal pebble
#

Someone stop the train, I want to get off.

toxic warren
#

You can absolutely be constructive while still being negative and criticize something

west pike
unreal pebble
verbal fox
#

Constructive criticism example: Chief should keep his helmet on

west pike
verbal fox
#

Another example: Human characters should not be in the Covenant

west pike
#

That's just an opinion

#

Yall don't even know what you want XD

verbal fox
#

Third example: More time should be spent on the Human Covenant War, rather than Innies on a backwater fighting some random white guy

fierce zenith
west pike
#

Oh my goodness yall are a mess on what I'm talking about

west pike
steady bough
# west pike Then don't ask for it to be constructive because it won't be unless sthey know s...

How about this then:

I’m currently working my way to publishing a novel, as a writer.

Mind you, not there yet, but I’m well on my way to getting the process going.

Can I then, in your humble opinion, critique the atrocious writing and characters of Season 1?

Or am I not “in the process” enough?

Or should I come at this from the perspective of a Halo fan, a fan since 2001, with a focus on the expanded universe since 2003? I have every book released, have made multiple long-form posts with quotes sources discussing the expanded universe and its characters.

Am I not an “expert”?

You don’t need to be in the writing room or on the show’s production team to see and point out critiques, that’s asinine to suggest. You could come at it from a world of experience and different histories and still have meaningful constructive critiques to provide.

verbal fox
#

Constructive: ✅

#

Will they listen though? ❌

#

Thanks Hollywood elites!

toxic warren
#

If you drop the snark in the last bit, you're heading in the right direction

unreal pebble
fierce zenith
#

I have to find a specific part in Mortal Dictata when Naomi think about why she keeps her helmet on. Maybe I kept a checkmark on my Audiobook version.

steady bough
#

Example:

In Forward Unto Dawn, Kelly and Fred remove their helmets after getting in the Pelican.

They should not due this from an in-universe standpoint as we have repeated examples of Spartans refusing to remove their helmets and armour until they’ve left a combat zone, with this directly stated verbatim in Last Light.

However, for the purposes of the narrative, it works to show the cadets that Fred and Kelly are young, the same age or younger than them.

I’m still critiquing it, but understanding why it’s done.

verbal fox
fierce zenith
verbal fox
toxic warren
#

"This sucks and I hate it and they should change"
Why would anyone want to read through that?

west pike
steady bough
verbal fox
#

Anger is powerful tool. Look how it drives Soren to be evil

#

Or Kwan to be relentlessly annoying

toxic warren
#

"I don't like X, think Y might do a better job here or maybe something like Z, because it worked well with A, B C"
See the difference?

verbal fox
#

Stckr side question

toxic warren
verbal fox
#

That ONI pin that Ackerson has. Any chance that will end up on the Halo store?

toxic warren
#

Better question for Halo gear

verbal fox
#

The twitter or discord channel?

toxic warren
#

Twitter

verbal fox
#

Is there not someone monitoring the Halo Gear in the discord?

toxic warren
toxic warren
west pike
#

Well this has been useless and only made me look like a fool so ill just let yall.enjoy your show and hopefully one.will be made for me one day

verbal fox
verbal fox
#

I have to watch Landfall after diving in here

cold sedge
#

keep helmets on and get rid of kwan ez win for halo series

fierce zenith
#

Ok, so this is on chapter 8 of Mortal Dictata, written from Naomi's POV. She's meeting a marshal who recognize her as a spartan and thanks her for her service by saying she's a true hero. That's what she thinks about this :

"What could she say to that? She wasn't even sure it was true. She had an urge to take of her helmet so he could look her in the eye and see her for what she was. But she suspected that would ruin the moment for him. He needed to see the spartan from the ONI public affair's posters, a mirrored visor that brooked no intrusion, no knowledge of the man or woman behind it, the invincible warrior untouched by petty human concerns like pain and fatigue. Spartans were icons. They didn't have fathers, uncertainties, or fears. They slew monsters."

That's my main argument for making the spartans keeping their damn helmet as much as possible when they are among normal civilians or soldiers.

This is the Halo equivalent of V for Vendeta popular quote : "Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy. And ideas are bulletproof."

It was also explained in the Batman Begin movie: mask are powerful icons and create something almost invulnerable that goes beyond the limits of a normal human. "If you make yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal, and if they can't stop you, then you become something else entirely."

cold sedge
#

who cares about other spartans

#

master chief should keep his helmet on

#

even when hes taking a bath

fierce zenith
#

I'm trying to prove your point, by the rings!

#

Even if it doesn't concern John directly, that philosophy applies to every spartans including him (and probably *especially *him, in fact)

cold sedge
#

very good

shell shale
#

With the show being non-canon, I’m curious as to why they decided to not have Blue Team in there, and came up with Silver Team 🤔

fierce zenith
#

I think that's because if it was Blue Team, we would have never believed nor accepted that they could fight each other.
But it may also be that they wanted to have some characters of their own creation, and Blue Team was considered as not so important.

shell shale
#

You think they’ll show more Spartans in season 2, both their original characters and taken from the canon?

fierce zenith
#

If they do, it will probably be just to kill them all in the fall of Reach, which would be fine by me.
Maybe they will even have a few dialogs and we'll have some namedropping for fanservice, but I don't expect much more.

shell shale
#

Imagine if they have new Spartans in there, just to kill them immediately, like in The Suicide Squad 😂

fierce zenith
#

I hope they will die as heroically as possible, otherwise it would be another huge insult to the fanbase.

shell shale
#

I understand season 1 was focused on Silver Team, but it would’ve been nice if there were mentions of other Spartans or seen them in war footage

deft crow
fierce zenith
#

Most of them were killed defending the generator of the orbital defense grid, I don't think there is a good description of this battle. I remember that a lot of spartans made a high altitude fall when their Pelican was shot in the sky, but I don't think any of them died from this (although a lot of them were crippled by the impact).

shell shale
#

I wonder what the odds are if Silver Team being killed on Reach, never making it to Alpha Halo

fierce zenith
#

I bet on either Riz or Vannak being killed, not both. My money is on Riz because the trailer makes her the center of attention, so she's probably the one who will have a deep narrative arc during this season.
Kai is the most loved spartan of Silver Team right now, including Jimmy, so she's fine.

tawdry kestrel
#

No matter if this show is good or not, I just want to see a Noble team cameo.
It is Reach focused after all.

fierce zenith
tawdry kestrel
shell shale
#

Something I don't think they're gonna have in the show is Operation: RED FLAG

little anvil
#

The situation in the show is different than in canon.
Im not sure Red Flag would be needed, it seems like the UNSC is in an overall better position

#

Red Flag was a hail mary pass, partially enacted because the prototype version of the operation would have required sacrificing a large UNSC planet to allow for the Spartans time to board an enemy ship.
And then the Covenant was considerate enough to come knocking at Reach's door and the UNSC went "well, if they're here..."

unreal pebble
#

Oh, and some elements of the Navy.

shell shale
#

With Ackerson in the show now, do you think anything surrounding Spartan-IIIs will be mentioned or seen?

neon plover
#

There was SPI armor in the trailer for Season 2

little anvil
#

Give me my on-screen off-smoother moment TV show
do ittttt

#

We got an on screen needler detonation last season lets see a Gamma off their meds

neon plover
#

If there even are Gammas. Ackerson just showing up may imply only Alpha S-IIIs will appear

fierce zenith
#

And to strike two fan-services with one stone, I think that Jorge could take the place of Kurt as commander of the S-III in this timeline, with Noble Team (or something similar) being his command squad.

little anvil
#

I'd be completely fine with that in truth

steady bough
#

breathes *”it’s not canon, it’s not canon, it’s not canon”

#

lol.

But actually, I could see it, though IMO that would detract from the show in my eyes.

#

Really I just don’t want the show to do Ackerson or the III’s dirty.

fierce zenith
# steady bough Really I just don’t want the show to do Ackerson or the III’s dirty.

That's exactly what a lot of fan wanted for Chief and Cortana in season 1 and didn't get.
We were perfectly aware that it would be a different timeline with a different story, so we never expected to have the exact same thing as canon. We just hoped it wouldn't do them dirty.

But Chief wasn't Chief as soon as he touch that damn artifact, got a complete mental breakdown and a freaking love relationship with a covenant spy, while Cortana was maybe less trashed but the fact that she was designed to take complete control of John is both insulting on a spiritual level and stupid on a technical level (because why would you need spartans for this? Just make a robotic Mjolnir suit and plug Cortana inside).

We didn't get angry at the show because it was different, but because it was incredibly disrespectful.

unreal pebble
#

I wonder, if carbon gets turned to diamonds under too much heat and pressure, what do pearls turn into?

fierce zenith
#

I would also add that, in my own experience, most people I argue with on this issue and who like the show are people who either hate Chief or are tired of seeing him in every Halo production.

unreal pebble
#

I mean, this is kind of a symptom of that problem.

fierce zenith
#

Could you elaborate, please?

fierce zenith
unreal pebble
#

Shockingly, it isn't.

#

It's referencing an idiom that I feel strongly applies to many of the chats in this thread.

fierce zenith
#

Cynical comments will not help in any way, you should know that. This is what made a lot of fans of multiple franchise doubling down on criticism.

You're talking about pressure while considering the show is "a pearl". Don't be too quick to apply unnecessary pressure to people who are trying to make constructive criticism. That's how you make it not constructive

unreal pebble
#

Pot, it's me, kettle.

strange elk
#

i think the razorback should get like blades in the front so its 1 shot touch to enemies in fire fight ? -is it a good idea or not?-

toxic warren
#

This channel is for discussing the TV show :)

strange elk
#

oh

ashen oasis
#

I don’t get what’s confusing about that

maiden urchin
#

why is lasky black, isnt he white in-game? ||(not being racist)||

toxic warren
#

They opted for the best actor fit for the role they wanted to portray - as it's a different timeline, it doesn't need to match 1:1 with whatever the games have done

fierce zenith
toxic warren
#

Lasky is played by Thom Green in FuD and voiced by Darren O'Hare in Halo 4

#

I actually don't remember the name being listed for the TV series, can't find anything about it so far

#

Wait, are you thinking of Keyes and not Lasky?
Keyes is portayed by Danny Sapani in the show

dreamy stirrup
#

I didn’t wanna jump in and correct anyone, but I don’t recall a Lasky being announced in S2. I know CPT Keyes was swapped around but nothing about Lasky

#

Regardless of who it was, they could’ve made Cortana silver and I’d still would be okay

fresh mural
#

Never got the people that complained about Cortana not being blue in the show when she's not even blue in canon

fierce zenith
#

Everything about looks, appearances, special effects or even acting performances are so much less important than the script to juge the quality of a show or movie. But people still focus on those things because it's so much easier to talk about.

#

They don't have to think about the meaning of things.

#

Not the consequences

little anvil
fierce zenith
#

This is why the popular opinion is not always the right opinion, and democratic vote on anything without critical thinking is destined to fail.

hardy sandal
#

I'll answer, no. Yet it's regarded as one of the greats.

#

a lot of meaning is communicated subconsciously.

The best writers specifically aim to do this, so as to prevent the audience from having to "think"

#

the audience just knows, by experiencing the movie.

#

the Halo series, is a great experience

#

especially for hardcore fans

#

those who notice the small details, what most would miss.

#

and of course you have to have some populist-agenda plotline, as with every culturally significant franchise

#

but this one is wrapped in HALO

#

Sure it's not as gritty as Game of Thrones, or as epic as Clash of the Titans, but it's got something they didn't....

#

luck.....
...was i wrong?

tawdry kestrel
#

The script doesn't have to be complex, but it has to be consistent.

fierce zenith
#

Complexity doesn't always equal good (because movies like Tenet exist), and simplicity doesn't always equal bad (like Top Gun Maverick).
That's like the "quantity or quality" question: sometime you can have both, and sometimes you get neither.
In fact complexity is a double edge sword for a script: if you use it well, it will help a lot to make the product good, but just a few mistakes can make the entire thing fall apart. Ironically, complexity is the simplest aspect someone can point when looking at a script because of how hard it makes his brain working, but there is multiple "smaller" things that contribute to a good script and most people don't pay attention to, because it needs a deeper level of analysis (and experience).

A script is not **good **just when it's complex, but when it has :

  • Consistency, logic, coherence
  • A good structure (separation in three of four acts, pacing,
  • Interesting characters (and again, that doesn't mean complex)
  • Character progression (the thing Rey bypassed in the first two Sequel movies)
  • Realistic dialogues (depending on the style chosen : serious, comedy, parody, ...)
  • Good worldbuilding (when needed)
    ...

And as the master Akira Kurosawa once said:
'With a good script a good director can produce a masterpiece; with the same script a mediocre director can make a passable film. But with a bad script even a good director can't possibly make a good film.

fierce zenith
#

And just in case that wasn't clear, the Silver Timeline has a LOT of problems that come from the script: Makee, the emotional regulator, Madrigal not being glassed right away by the Covenants, the Covenant releasing human prisoners after interrogation instead of just killing them, flashclones having nearly perfect memory (if I was Halsey, I would immediately clone Parangosky from one of her hair and interrogate the clone on every ONI secret), Chief not being sent in court-martial after disobeying orders and coming back without Kwan, the insurrection base on Madrigal not being emptied by anyone during multiple days despite having sangheilis bodies and Covenant weaponry that would sell pretty well on the black market... and that's just on the logical aspect.

On the pacing part, I'll just give one big problem as an example: we don't see any planet being glassed until some of the last episode, and when it finally happens, the UNSC people on Reach react like it's the first time they see such a thing. As a consequence, the threat of the Covenant doesn't feel as important as it should be for the character or the audience, despite the war raging for two decades.

On the "interesting character" part, the problem of Makee is already well known so instead I'll talk about Kwan... The writers wanted us to like her, but when Miranda propose her to help UNSC sending a message to the colony about the Covenant threat (which, again, is funny considering the war is going on for two decades), Kwan choose to tell everyone that her friends and family were killed by the UNSC in order to boost the Insurrection strength, and so weakening the UNSC defense forces, making the Covenant's job even easier... that's some high level evil character.

wary wind
#

I'm sure the action scenes will be good just like in S1 at least not sure about the story though

fierce zenith
#

The actions scenes of S1 were sometimes goofy or a little bit silly, but overall pretty good. My favorite one remains Jimmy vs Vannak & Riz for choregraphy, but the battle of the artifact against the covenant had excellent visuals.

unreal pebble
#

Also, I'm pretty sure that the memory of flash clone thing isn't that weird. We don't interact a lot with flash clones in main Halo canon, but they were similar enough memory wise to make stand-ins of the kids they were cloned from; And at least Black Box and Cortana have both displayed posession of memories in line with their creator's brains, albiet heavily watered down into echoes.

#

Though I think Halsey literally only cloned her brain in mainline canon when it comes to self cloning. The full body cloning was likely done more for dramatic effect or as situation bait for future episodes.

fierce zenith
#

The spartan clones had some memory of the originals, but with a lot of "bugs" and holes.
For exemple, Naomi's clone didn't remember she likes doll houses (or looking at the stars ? I honestly don't remember). Most of them were close to brain dead.

fierce zenith
unreal pebble
#

Riiiiight.

deep mesa
#

so fellas, how hard are the laso cheevos in mcc?

timid gyro
wintry pelican
#

The IIIs were surprising to see

verbal fox
#

Another trailer, another day of pure rage

toxic warren
#

Exciting 😄

verbal fox
#

Horrifying

steady bough
#

Gonna need to make a preemptive " how it goes in canon" post for this, I can already tell.

dreamy stirrup
verbal fox
#

Save the copy paste story for when someone asks for elaboration

#

Reason being, someone is more likely to read the full "what happens in canon" upon asking for it, rather than just seeing a wall of text to ignore.

wintry pelican
#

That shot of the spartan-IIIs kinda looks cool, but in general a lot of the visuals have been intersting

unreal pebble
#

It's... Very 'inspired' by the Clone army scene from Star Wars.

#

Deffo speedrunning Halo lore tho.

steady bough
#

Easily gives that same kind of connection, I suppose

unreal pebble
#

It's hard to do a whole 'next generation of warfare' scene that doesn't do that, I suppose.

wary wind
#

Master Chief in Forward Unto Dawn was the GOAT live action Chief imo

umbral granite
#

Interesting choice for the armor too, white and mirage helmet

wraith plover
fierce zenith
#

I'm not sure the writers know about Escalation. I believe it's more like a reference to Vader's scene on the last episode of Kenobi, just like the S-III shot sends a clear "clone army" vibe. Star Wars's influence go deeper than Halo's, on some elements.

Anyway, that's how the revealing of his face should have gone in season 1, to make it go on two steps instead of just one.

After the helmet being damaged in battle, Kwan could have though that she would be able to aim at that small hole into the helmet to kill him, and John (for some reason) would decide to "get it a little bit easier for her".

idle pawn
fierce zenith
#

They talked with 343 about a lot of things, but I don't believe they actually went through the time and effort to look into every book and comic entry of the lore. Not for season 1, at least, but maybe they decided to learn about their mistakes and maybe that's because season 2 will be better. We'll see.

flint lava
#

Anyone else think despite lore conflicts, they made the right decision going with Mirage IIC instead of Mirage gen 1?

steady bough
west pike
toxic warren
#

They did research though and worked with 343, the just decided following the mainline canon wasn't going to work for what they wanted to do
https://fxtwitter.com/mrstevenkane/status/1506421683841757189

FxTwitter / FixupX
💬 55 🔁 161 ❤️ 766
Steven Kane (@mrstevenkane)

@Variety Headlines are fun, but here’s what I really said: To make the Halo TV series, we started from the game, and then we made the pilgrimage to 343 to study the entire canon, so that we could bring you the FULL Halo experience! #HaloTheSeries

west pike
#

If they didn't want to follow canon, why study it at all? That seems a bit... backwards?

wraith plover
toxic warren
wraith plover
west pike
#

Well... sure, but like what differences were needed for the excuse of a different timeline? To modernize it?

#

You still obviously need consistency to call it Halo, but I'm wondering what divergences they wanted to make

toxic warren
#

To tell the best Halo stories we can, we want to protect the integrity, simplicity, and future of the core canon, but also not be limited by it when faced with the realities of a new medium and the process of production. As a result, we made the decision to set the Halo television series in an authentic, but independent timeline.

west pike
#

I read that, but it's oddly vague

#

Would saying they wanted to modernize it with real world stuff be accurate?

west pike
#

For example in accordance with the timing of the show afaik Master chief shouldn't be in that armor set BUT they have him in it in silver to help bring more hype and eyes on the newest halo game.

west pike
#

I feel stupid I didn't realize there was a lot more to read in that link. Kinda answered my questions even though I personally do not like the reasoning and wished it was different.

fierce zenith
#

From what I've read so far, there is no clear information about what they did and didn't experienced first hand about the Halo lore, and what they just were told about by 343 members.
But that's pretty normal for a long terme franchise. In Star Wars during the Legends Era, on in WH40K, even people working on canon story could not take the time to read every single book in the franchise. Usually they just took their script to a lore master and asked him "does it break canon or not?".
For a story in a different timeline, I imagine the research part of the job being even less dedicated (not totally inexistant, don't make me say that, I just said less)..

west pike
#

Welp I had a whole thing written out but apparently saying kick butt is bad?

#

So the whole things deleted.

I had a whole thing how it would've been cool to see noble team focused on or a whole other lesser know spartan team get some action and spotlight since they seem more keen and adding new stuff and doing what they want with the amazing world of Halo.

toxic warren
#

That's for sure and I totally understand that in many cases lore accuracy is a risk. Though I will say has an incredible payoff. I personally want to see the fights and inner workings of the alien races on the silver screen instead of the hard focus on the face of Halo. I think the safest option would(ve been) be to diverge from following silver team and instead make their own team of Spartans that can run into chief as a cameo if he's really that necessary to sell the product. Another idea is it would've been cool to see noble team at the very least doing their thing before our noble 6 shows up. Learn more about the characters through visuals and kickass battles

fierce zenith
#

Cameo Chief would have been the best Chief

west pike
west pike
verbal fox
fresh mural
verbal fox
pearl fog
#

Damn he called you out it’s about to go down

#

Look how much he’s typing

verbal fox
# west pike Well... sure, but like what differences were needed for the excuse of a differen...

Look the simple answer is that Hollywood is a very entrenched organization. They have a method they've been doing for decades and they weren't going to listen to a few video game writers for a second. They have a history of "success" (wealth) to back them up.
So, rather then accept Halo as it was and apply it to a movie, they changed Halo to fit what they believe fits filmmaking, which in this case is extremely disrespectful

fresh mural
#

Oh gimme a break

#

Name one thing Hollywood respects, I'll wait

verbal fox
#

Themselves.

west pike
#

Also I was going to say they kept enough to slap a label, however I encourage you read the waypoint post stickr sent. It's not going to be the answers you want probably but it definitely proves they put thought into it and not just grabbing at straws

verbal fox
#

I've seen a lot of those, but it's a matter of research comparing what they say vs what they did.

west pike
#

Well the thing is, it shows that at least the ones we care about the makers of halo and the like actually care and preffered Hollywood have their hand in some separate cookie jar instead of their awesome core Canon. It's like they let Hollywood play with megablocks so they could keep the legos

verbal fox
#

In particular, I look to the interviews with Kiki Wolfkill, who was the highest ranking 343 employee liaisoning with Paramount. Base on some of those, I assume the canon that Paramount was told is from the perspective of Kiki and I really don't agree with her vision.

verbal fox
west pike
#

Well to avoid speculation, we can say they could've asked for crowd funding to help them keep an untainted and fully their own Halo show since paramount definitely had its hand in some parts. I know I would've tried to put my money into a cause to make a great new Halo show. resources are definitely a driving factor in who helps make the show a reality.

verbal fox
west pike
#

Very true!

#

I enjoyed forward unto dawn, but at the same time they wouldn't have the longevity for a full show with many seasons.

fresh mural
#

Forward Unto Dawn literally couldn't have been any more boring

#

I honestly would rewatch Halo Nightfall instead

verbal fox
#

I think that's fine. A single short film every so often, filled with passion, would be better than a high budget production that lacks soul.

west pike
#

This product we have now does seem to have what it needs to exist for a good while so props to.them for that, but I'm still disappointed in what we got content wise.

verbal fox
#

The TV Show is high budget and maybe medium passion.

west pike
#

It has passion, just not the same passion as us

#

It focuses on things we either don't care for, or rather would leave in the background