#lore-and-universe

1 messages · Page 545 of 1

tacit charm
#

im probably going to get stuff like oh look at what guardians can do i.e yeeting a planet almost instantaneously which means forerunner navy/every forerunner ship can totally do the same (doesnt take into account planet cracker descriptions) and oh forerunners can destroy stars hur dur (doesnt take into account time, process plus the size of that fleet)

terse lava
#

I wonder if it can even be said 1000 forerunner warships can take out a star, seeingnas MB was now given a halo, rather than the fleet

tacit charm
#

i make it sound as if stars arent old asf

versed helm
#

i s a y y e s

terse lava
#

Well yeah, just funny to think it is implied it happened often enough during the end of the war, yet the one example we have, MB saying his 1000 strong fleet can do it, no longer exists

tacit charm
#

just did the crude math

versed helm
#

Medicant Bias was very corrupted and cursed by late Forerunner-Flood War.

#

Thus how Offensive won against him.

#

Even when MB's fleet was 456 times bigger.

terse lava
#

Yeah?

versed helm
#

yeah what

terse lava
#

At the time of the report though, MB hadn't met the Primordial/gravemind yet

versed helm
#

Oh, yeah.

tacit charm
#

gg forerunners amongkle

#

though

terse lava
#

Eh, forerunner space magic laughs at your math

tacit charm
#

if use the planet cracker description in i think it's warfleet or halo 4 essential guides well the numbers will be much higher

tacit charm
#

dont see anyone ever talk much about how the sof crew yeeted small star in halo wars

terse lava
#

Eh no one cares

versed helm
terse lava
#

Forge rode a forerunner elevator with the ship's slipspace core into the star

versed helm
#

what star

#

WAIT WHAT

terse lava
#

He detonated it, and thr mini star went mini nova

versed helm
#

OHH

tacit charm
terse lava
#

The plot of Halo Wars

tacit charm
#

:C

versed helm
#

i know what you're speaking about

tacit charm
#

big sad

versed helm
#

i forgot it was a star

#

i thought it was some weird core thing

tacit charm
versed helm
#

forge was covered by the elevator's forerunner metal

terse lava
#

Of course

versed helm
#

i n d e s t r u c t i b l e

#

"i can't feel any heat here sir"

terse lava
#

Its why I said no one cares as you could argue, only the Forerunners could do it as Forge had to use the elevatoruny

versed helm
#

What is Master chiefs pay grade?

versed helm
#

How long does is take for Orbital defense platform to reload? we need a movie about the pre human covenant war especially the insurrection and rebellions which lead to halsey to kickstart the spartan program

tacit charm
#

also ik you didnt ask but the reach odps are the superior odp design

versed helm
versed helm
#

so theyre better than the earth defense platform one like cairo, malta?

tacit charm
# versed helm ohh the 20 of them at reach?

apparently there were Moncton odps at reach as well though im not sure if that's actual fact or artistic licencing halopedia confused for pure canon so there's an unknown amount of 5 rounds per second odps at reach

#

and yes

#

they're better

#

so much better

#

it's not even close

#

weird cause you'd think earth would have the best of the best gear/defences but HypeChief

#

as for a comparison, one reach odp can quite literally yeet any ship out of existence from a cruiser, cas and even scare off the cso (before anyone asks think about halo reach, rho and his thoughts on reach) whereas the earth odp can do jack squat to a cas carrier (supposedly)

versed helm
#

makes sense why reach would got it because the planet may have resources OR close to colonies with resources and they said the planet is huge compared to earth so secret facilities would be available than the densely packed like earth

tacit charm
#

i mean

#

they had enough resources to build several gigachad odps at reach you'd think someone with a brain back on earth would realise it would be wise to place at least one of those gigachad odps at earth

versed helm
#

true

#

but how do they make them? tow them to space? or how do they moved them for example?

tacit charm
#

space magic

versed helm
#

imagine a super mac odp that can move and jump at slipspace

tacit charm
#

how does a 2km long gun fire a 3000 ton round at 4% the speed of light without the recoil shooting the station back at the planet

#

space magic

versed helm
#

lol

tacit charm
#

shame

versed helm
#

i prefer mac odp than infinity

tacit charm
#

half the people who usually talk about the infinity have literally no idea how powerful those 4 smacs are and just assume a cso can beat it cause hur dur big ship even though the same cso got scared off by far inferior smacs

tacit charm
versed helm
#

whenever i look at cairo station its just so beautiful, eyegasmic

tacit charm
#

it's just the reach odps are nothing compared to the infinity's gigachad 2.1 teraton smacs

versed helm
tacit charm
#

💪 uny

tacit charm
#

depends on the description on escalations

versed helm
#

infinity is op, its a shame

#

343 had to hype the banished by destroying infinity 😑

tacit charm
#

if the description is 100% accurate and the infinity's shields were up then yes it can most definitely survive

#

but as of now idk

versed helm
#

too bad those 20 odps cant cover the entire planet of reach

tacit charm
#

only have infinity's shields at 169 megatons in that one spartan ops scene which is well far inferior to 51 gigatons on the reach odps (funnily enough the same numbers can be used to measure that armoured cruiser's shield so there's that)

versed helm
#

hmm

tacit charm
versed helm
#

how did they do it? when infinity came out of slip space they then ambushed it immediately?

tacit charm
#

lightspeed ramming

#

star roads

#

God

versed helm
#

is there a ship that can accelerate at light speed in halo?

#

i heard no such thing until now

tacit charm
#

last i checked

versed helm
#

so what do you mean by light speed ramming?

tacit charm
#

fusion aint producing infinite energy

tacit charm
versed helm
#

oh ok

#

lol got me confused there

#

in star wars it is possible hahah

tacit charm
#

btw

#

that aint a jk

versed helm
#

yeah

#

hyperspace and stuff but thats gonna be off topic on this channel

tacit charm
#

nah

#

i mean

#

if you take everything from the movies as absolute canon then everything in the star wars galaxy is legit moving ftl

#

tks empire strikes back amongkle

versed helm
#

light speed

#

so if halo and star wars universe fought i would assume star wars would be outgunned and outmatched against halo. so the only way star wars could win is hyper space kamikaze

tacit charm
#

funny how you mention a star wars vs halo debate

versed helm
#

star wars doesn’t come close in realism like halo. star wars vessels wouldn’t survive a mac gun

#

so now in star fighters id say star wars has the advantage

#

but they lack energy shielding too

#

sabers aren’t mass produced so seraphs may stand a chance against them

tacit charm
#

unless the precursors were involved (even then they barley have jack all feats besides star roads, moving galaxies, transcendent and being uber smart among other minor things that doesnt really matter much in a debate nor would it help halo) star wars legends would completely crush halo. as for canon (excluding precursors cause honestly ye those star roads are going to be a real son bitc) halo is still going to have a hard time

versed helm
#

i don’t know much about the forerunners if they have star fighters

tacit charm
#

they do

#

they had alot

tacit charm
#

im reacting to the second statement fyi

versed helm
tacit charm
#

yottatons

#

whereas cov ships and by extension macs only blow off <<<30 megatons

#

forerunner ships

#

well

versed helm
#

last resort to kamikaze i guess

tacit charm
#

that's a bit tricky

#

on one hand you have four cruisers and a fortress class yeeting a chunky halo ring

#

on the other you have heavy ion weapons on planet crackers and the mantle's approach being only able to buckle a continent

#

well

versed helm
#

dont know much about ion cannons but i saw one disable a star destroyer in empire strikesback

tacit charm
#

anyways

#

crud

#

lost my train of thought

#

tldr star wars legends wins cause celestials, bedlams and two actual gods of star wars (not to mention legends numbers for ships hot damn) and star wars canon will have a hard time against halo but would likely come out on top (assuming precursors arent involved, halos arent used and ics are reliable)

versed helm
#

interesting lets agree to disagree since for me halo ha san advantage on shielding and technology where starwars is on stagnancy

tacit charm
tacit charm
tacit charm
#

last i checked

#

no cov ships have ever produced 3.8 x 10^26 watts

fair hazel
# tacit charm yottatons

Yeah no. Legends was constantly so inconsistent in itself. Ridiculous too that people would say things had certain firepower that would never match or make sense. Especially such ridiculous firepower that would make Death Star obsolete And it’s not canon either. So not really what people should bring in first. Mostly the people who can’t let go or try to bring in bigatons

#

And no. Star Wars canon doesn’t like, stomp stuff in halo by far.

tacit charm
#

amongkle yottatons was more of a jk figure for canon (although it's not too far from it), legends only has wong's calcs and that time where the executor got rammed by three star destroyers in hypserspace but even then that doesnt matter much when legends also has gods i.e bedlams, the ones etc.

#

although

tacit charm
#

whether that be canon or legends if you take all visuals as absolute canon it's not even close

fair hazel
#

Yeah no. Star Wars galaxy is weird. But that’s not happening.

#

Star Wars tends to have much less range. Much less firepower typically. In space and in ground. Vehicles and stuff with questionable tactics.

#

Unsc weapons are generally good for killing Jedi too

tacit charm
#

last i checked the humans, cov and forerunners (i mean warships cause the forerunners certainly do have other resources to yeet a planet) dont have any vessel that can rival the output of one death star beam (pretty sure it's was referring to the singular beams you see converging together)

#

uny rogue one has a very interesting ship

#

well

#

rogue one the novel

fair hazel
#

The humans have nova bombs so. Besides that’s not really always needed for warfare

#

Guardians do also destroy planets

#

The created are a modern faction

#

I hope we get some created stuff in the encyclopedia

#

I’ll be disappointed about that if we don’t get substantial

tacit charm
#

i mean novas are in limited supplies plus delivering one aint easy as delivering pizza. now as for the guardians (weird you didnt mention sydney cause honestly that's a pretty good feat for an individual guardian as well), i mean ye they can destroy a planet sure but what's involved in the process? like do they have to be rearrange around the planet or can they just simply yeet one when in the proximity of several guardians without needing to surround the planet, seeing how there's no evidence of the latter not to mention kind of begs the question why the forerunners didnt build more guardians cause despite what some lore might say about oh how guardians were useless against forerunner stuff and only effective on primitive races i call bullocks cause last i checked a typical forerunner vessel aint surviving exatons/zetatons of kaboom whether shielded or not

#

also i just checked up on the rogue ship qaz star destroyer and pretty sure the book doesnt mention the power of the shields soamongkle that's intriguing

fair hazel
#

I don’t think your view of warfare is the most accurate. These are Forerunners, the ones who made stars go super nova as a kamikaze last resort.

tacit charm
#

ya know

#

the sof also made a star go supernova

#

plus

fair hazel
#

A miniature star using a slipspace drive

tacit charm
#

the terminal does say it requires a fleet to do so

#

and gives no time on how long that normally takes plus what process

fair hazel
#

Maybe they just drop forerunner planets at it haha

#

Requiem

#

Which probably survived

#

Star Wars ships definitely lack range

tacit charm
#

ye kinda

#

rip only max 100km

#

anyways

#

there's that one infamous iso quote which states the forerunners can move stars, im not against this notion but the dude never states if they move the star near light speed, slow as a snail or the most annoying of all at ftl

#

if it's ftl well

#

as i said in another halo discord server

#

stop measuring in numbers and start measuring in infinities

#

though seeing as how ridiculous/dangerous asf it is to move a star anywhere near the speed of light let alone ftl kinda leaning towards slow as snail

fair hazel
#

Things don’t go past C

tacit charm
#

ik

#

but halo physics dont care

fair hazel
#

They do care

#

That’s why there’s slipspace

ebon condor
# fair hazel They do care

They really don’t. There’s a lot of tech that sheds realistic-ness for cool factors and big numbers, especially in the bungie era when lore was super low priority

fair hazel
#

The only thing would be the halos but the mechanics are esoteric.

#

Otherwise. Everything else does not go past C

#

Slipspace bypasses things. But doesn’t violate C

last anchor
#

It sidesteps

humble yacht
#

Slipspace is just a take on the theory of folding space to overcome the problem of matter being unable to travel at light speed

#

Wormholes have long been theorized and slipspace is just fancy wormholes

versed helm
#

Wtf...is this argument?

terse lava
#

The nonsense Physics of halo

versed helm
# terse lava The nonsense Physics of halo

To be fair it's not meant to be science fact it's meant to be a fun universe.... however slipspace is actually really close to how FTL travel would be in are reality and in the halo universe slipspace is fairly well explained just fyi

terse lava
#

I am aware

versed helm
#

Well Why'd you call it bs?

#

Well... nonsense

#

I should say?!?!

terse lava
#

Because the discussion was related to forerunner technology, which pretty much ignores physics

vocal python
#

Just got to the part of contact harvest where the brutes arrive at harvest and humanity’s first attempt at a peaceful gesture is to paint a huge webcomic on the side of a ship

#

This book is so good

last anchor
#

Its one of the best.
Was it Joe Staten who wrote that one?

gilded mason
#

Yes

last anchor
#

Thats probably part of the reason its so good then.

wintry oyster
#

Master chief dies in halo ce

fervent compass
versed helm
# terse lava The nonsense Physics of halo

originally this started because halo vs star wars stuff. still halo> star wars cuz halo has superior weaponry, superior shielding and lastly much more advanced weapons and missiles and nukes. etc.

fair hazel
#

And space superiority too.

versed helm
#

star wars also has terrible shielding placements

#

star destroyers for example

last anchor
#

The distinct lack of CIWS on Star Wars vessels continues to vex me.
The term "Spartan boarding party" holds far more weight in a combative encounter there, methinks, since the bridge of an SD is large, the shields are easy to spot and destroy and they have no rapid fire anti-missile/craft weaponry seemingly

fair hazel
#

Abysmal range too

cloud heath
#

I'm still confused if Offensive Bias got deployed again based on what happened in the legendary ending of Infinite

#

Also, Atriox was there without his face paint and his scars

#

It was mention that time was not in Forerunners's control, so maybe...

Timetravel?

untold wasp
#

The dialogue was from the past not atriox

fair hazel
#

WE don't know enough about it, lots of speculation

versed helm
#

Halo still has a lot of space magic and hand wavy Sci-Fi “science”, but there’s slightly more thought put into it than a lot of mainstream Sci-Fi franchises.

#

I don’t really think accurate science is very important in Sci-Fi anyways

terse lava
#

Almost never, yeah

#

Part of the enjoyment of the genere is thr exploration. Kinda hard to do that in some multi gen ship

versed helm
#

Pretty much

#

Themes, characters, factions, and the politics of the universe are what matter to me the most when crafting Sci-Fi worlds.

austere tiger
#

Hi guys, good evening!
Which book/comic tells the story of what happened to Cortana between halo 4 and halo 5?

shut steppe
versed helm
#

Forerunners did use stasis capsules to manipulate time in a limited way

#

The primordial was aged by billions of years in seconds using that technology

#

They also used timelocks to halt time to a standstill in Cylixes

#

But otherwise I don’t think they understood time well enough to time travel

terse lava
#

Yeah, there has yet to be any true showing of typical "go to past/future" time travel. Closest we have is in the Onyx shield world, with the time bubbles

last anchor
#

Even thats just time dilation which is a thing that happens in normal space travel. The closer to C you get the faster time seems to move for you

#

Im convinced Traviss included that as an excuse to get the Onyx survivors out quicker

terse lava
#

Wouldn't suprise me

last anchor
#

It worked and thats fine with me, cause what she laid down was expanded upon in Legacy of Onyx, which I really enjoyed

#

Still a better YA novel than Battleborn.

terse lava
#

Agreed

tacit charm
fair hazel
#

I wanted a third battle born

last anchor
#

Wait, did they can book 3?

#

They cant have, its on a cliffhanger...and a BAD one at that.

vestal pivot
fair hazel
last anchor
#

Darn.

#

To be fair, Meridian Divide was...well, I liked Battleborn a lot better. I guess I cant blame em.

#

I will keep poking about that weapon they gave Owen in book 1 until someone says something about it. 100 round magazine DMR style weapon that fires PLASMA ENHACNED ROUNDS?

velvet pike
#

I think it should be canon that all of chiefs great achievements are due to the "double dose of the wake up stim" that the marine gave him in CE

near tide
last anchor
#

In Battleborn, one of the protags parents works for Acheron Securities (the people who make the Sticky Detonator and the Scorpion). They raid her parents basement, where theres several prototypes for various weapons, including a Sticky Det (which they refer to by name) and another weapon which apparently "doesnt have a real name, just some serial number". Its described as being some kind of ungodly plasma/ballistic hybrid weapon with an enormous magazine capacity.

#

Of course being a YA novel the gun descriptions leave quiiiiitteee a lot to be desired.

terse lava
#

Feels kinda cringy

last anchor
#

Probably half the reason they axed book 3

terse lava
#

Possible, though YA books are almost never good anyway

short plank
#

How is the Mjolnir undersuit put on? Piece by piece or does it have some way of zipping/attaching in the back after the Spartan gets into it?

untold wasp
#

What is the name of Kurt’s helmet

#

Looks good

last anchor
#

SPI

#

At least, in his most famous apperance, before that I think he wore just standard MK V

short plank
#

Mark IV. Kurt wasn't issued a Mk V suit unfortunately :/

clever prairie
#

Most Spartan 3's used SPI

strong rose
# terse lava Feels kinda cringy

It was alright, I just finished those. I'm trying to listen to all of the books in chronological order (more or less). I like the different perspectives (the elites were boring in broken circle) and potential spartan 3 candidates was one I didn't expect.

#

I guess the would have to have been 4s by the time it occurred since Owen was a 3 in there and their age though.

sour geode
#

Out of curiosity, when was the MA40 introduced into service? At least by 2552 I know, but I wonder if anyone has a more precise timeframe.

untold wasp
#

Either way it would be cool if they add it in infinite

last anchor
#

They gave it to us in MCC. We can only hope.

untold wasp
last anchor
#

Mirage armor in MCCs Halo 3 version is basically SPI.
Hopefully having it in MCC is a precursor to having it in Infinite at some point.

untold wasp
#

yes

last anchor
#

How long till Rubicon Protocol again?

near tide
last anchor
#

Curses.

Well the Encyclopedias coming out next month right? That'll hold me over

near tide
last anchor
#

Either way; now we wait

terse lava
#

Watch as the encyclopedia gets delayed, again, by a year

tropic forge
obsidian thistle
#

I do find it interesting that they actually followed a name they gave in Mythos.

versed helm
#

if you play unwearied heart at kurts stand it actually fits.

sour geode
versed helm
#

in the lone wolf there is a spartan III body on the ground that is wearing an ODST helmet. does this mean spartan IIIs were issues mjolnir variants of odst armor?

sour geode
#

Probably

unique rune
#

The dead Spartans on that mission have randomly generated armor combinations.

#

That aside, yes, it is possible that some Spartan-IIIs may have made use of the ODST armor permutation of MJOLNIR, assuming they were given the latter in the first place.

sour geode
#

That level will spawn random armour pieces on the bodies though

lost cliff
#

Are the endless precursors?

gilded mason
#

No

lost cliff
#

Is Atriox dead?

gilded mason
#

He is not. Have you beaten Infinite?

lost cliff
#

Yes but is there a chance that ending video was in the past?

gilded mason
#

No.

#

Just the audio.

lost cliff
#

I see, that's a pretty interesting premise to a new campaign arc.

loud kestrel
#

wait what the hell??

#

how is atriox even alive?

brazen fox
#

Its kinda

#

Uh

#

Confusing

loud kestrel
#

did we not see the ring/ship blow up with him on it?

gilded mason
#

No, we did not

loud kestrel
#

but he was standing at the ledge

#

how could he possibly have survived

lost cliff
#

Why did it say 97,000 BCE Zeta Halo in the legendary video? Did Atriox time travel?

gilded mason
#

No.

#

Just the audio. As said.

lost cliff
#

Weird presentation, like visual year label and old audio.. idk man

gilded mason
terse lava
#

Its just the audio of the Forerunner and the monitor, overset over the modern Era as Atriox unlocks the Endless

lost cliff
#

Yea if he was talking to Cortana, then he must be alive

lost cliff
gilded mason
#

No. He's referring to the Infinity blowing up off-screen

lost cliff
#

Ohhhhh

loud kestrel
gilded mason
loud kestrel
#

uhh maybe i missed that part?

#

lmao

#

probably a very large detail to miss

#

one that just screams LOOK AT ME

#

and i... didnt see it

near tide
#

So

#

Halopedia says the pillar of autumn has 32 archer pods

#

Fall of reach says there’s 30 across and 10 down

versed helm
#

How strong are Promethean’s supposed to be in lore?

valid hemlock
#

At least 2

terse lava
#

@versed helm the robots or the forerunners? We see in cutscenes the hardlight from the robots just passes right through marines

versed helm
#

i want 343 to fix the prometheans ai

#

so halo 4 could have been a lil fun. aside from the good story

loud kestrel
#

i always heard from people that the story really sucked

unique rune
#

I mean, people say lots of different and conflicting things about every game. Like how Halo 3’s campaign is “the best one” even though it’s a poorly written trash fire with mediocre level design that distracts you from its problems by blowing up big things every other level.

versed helm
#

Couldn’t help yourself

unique rune
#

I have very few positive thoughts regarding Halo 3

iron belfry
#

anyone a fan of the books?

near tide
iron belfry
#

like a book review discussion

versed helm
#

I don’t have any preconceived nostalgia or hatred for H3 so after I played it for the first time nearly 2 years ago I just ended up thinking it was fine campaign wise.

#

does anyone want this halo infinite 2x xp off a pringles can?

unique rune
#

I don’t even really hate it that much, I just think the pedestal it’s held on is absurd.

versed helm
#

Artstyle was great, gunplay was solid, enemies took a hit from previous entries but were still fun enough to blow up, writing was a huge step down from H2, and setpieces were wonderful and the highlight of the campaign for me.

#

My biggest problem with Halo 3 honestly is just how the story is told

#

Joseph Staten leaving the project was felt sorely

unique rune
#

If it wasn’t for all the talk of how amazing it supposedly is contrasted against all the criticism of 4 and 5’s campaigns that often could very well be applied to any of the original trilogy titles I’d be a lot less irritated by 3.

versed helm
#

I get why people love 3, so I’m not particularly mad at the fact that so many people love it.

#

Sometimes I enjoy being a hater but in this instance I’m just in the mindset of “let people have fun”

unique rune
#

I’m not saying people’s feelings towards 3 are invalid, I just wish they’d be more fair about criticism across all Halo titles.

versed helm
#

I do agree with the consensus that the Bungie games are superior to the 343 games, but a lot of the story complaints people have levied against 4 & 5 could be applied to 3 tbh.

versed helm
#

People do often cherry-pick the highlights of the OT without looking at their failures as well. Still like-love em all though.

versed helm
versed helm
unique rune
#

It would’ve been better if it hadn’t been a written-by-committee mess of ideas that struggle to come together

versed helm
#

Bungie essentially made the third act of Halo 2 into an entire game, so we had entire sections of the game be absolute filler plot wise

loud kestrel
#

people are confusing and dont know what they want

short plank
versed helm
short plank
#

That being said I enjoyed 3, despite its pretty bland story/writing.

versed helm
#

I don’t really play halo games for their story, even if some are genuinely well written.

short plank
#

Nothin’ wrong with that. The gameplay is awesome.

versed helm
#

One thing that disappointed me going from Halo 2-3 was the Arbiter kind of being shafted.

versed helm
#

He was by far my favorite character of the trilogy so far so seeing him being relegated to a CO-OP partner with a few admittedly memorable lines was a letdown

near tide
#

My favorite part of 3 is probably the grenades

versed helm
near tide
#

That being said:it’s a pretty meh game

#

I liked odst more

short plank
#

The dialogue was pretty dang funny at times

near tide
#

All of the criticisms people mention about 4 and 5 often apply to 3

#

And reach

versed helm
short plank
#

“He was my lover!”

versed helm
#

Halo 3 dialogue was so hammy sometimes

#

The “to war” line from Miranda remains as perhaps the worst in the series to this day

short plank
#

Yep…

versed helm
#

To give the story some credit it did end on a high note

unique rune
#

Campaign writing tends to be the main draw for me with Halo titles since I generally go in expecting to enjoy the gameplay at bare minimum.

Even ignoring my gripes with the writing I still think Halo 3 struggles. The level design is kinda bland, even if it has some neat setpieces scattered throughout. And the idiotic Cortana/Gravemind visions are absolutely horrible.

versed helm
#

I think everyone hates the Cortana visions lol

unique rune
#

I cannot believe anyone thought those stupid visions were a good idea.

short plank
#

If they had just made the Cortana visions audio only with maybe a slight hint of blue on your screen and cut the “I can barely move” part I wouldn’t hate them so much

near tide
#

I do think I like 3 more than 4 and 5

#

Despite 4 having a well written story

#

I don’t like the gunplay in those games

versed helm
#

Level design was fine. We were able to explore a variety of memorable locations, they all had some level of verticality, and returned to the more open ended feel of CE’s early missions.

near tide
#

The bullets feel strange

#

And I despise Prometheans

versed helm
#

4’s story is good by halo standards but I think it’s still mid.

unique rune
#

I can’t really get behind 3’s level design because I just don’t find any of it interesting. It’s incredibly linear which I don’t inherently mind but outside of The Covenant all of it just feels kinda forgettable with the exception of Cortana for being memorably awful.

versed helm
#

Agree to disagree I guess

short plank
#

What, you don’t enjoy walking through a giant biohazard? /s

unique rune
#

The biggest contrast for me was the time I tried playing The Library and Cortana back to back just to see how the two compared. I actually enjoyed The Library a lot when I did that but Cortana just felt like a horrible slog.

versed helm
#

I think the most glaring flaw of Halo 3’s gameplay in the campaign was the brutes. They were just elite lite.

#

They were ok on their own, but don’t stack up to their predecessors.

versed helm
short plank
#

You’re gonna love the pure form spam…

unique rune
#

I did those runs on Heroic. Tried to go deathless on them, which gave The Library a pretty fun sense of tension. Cortana was comparatively easier but also felt more tedious and annoying.

versed helm
#

Gonna have to replay to make a fair judgment ig

#

Speaking of CE looks beautiful on the Series S now that 343 fixed the graphics.

short plank
#

What was wrong with them before? (I’m OOTL)

unique rune
#

Stuff like textures and fog effects and even lighting was broken by the Gearbox PC port that CEA and MCC are based on.

versed helm
#

343 used the gearbox port of CE for MCC, which led to a lot of details being lost in translation.

#

Late night gaming made a good video on it

short plank
unique rune
#

343’s cleaned up a lot of them and gotten the vast majority of it working for MCC now so it looks a lot closer to the way the original Xbox release did.

#

CE’s original graphics still look pretty nice now after the fixes.

versed helm
#

CE’s artstyle is still top notch

short plank
#

I like the way flood forms look in original graphics. Especially infection forms. Little blobs of glow in the dark popcorn.

versed helm
#

The flood in CE have a bioluminescent glow that was really neat

short plank
#

Made infection swarms more interesting than spooky to me tbh

#

Especially on Keyes with all that sludge around you

versed helm
#

Bungie went with a more fleshy, subdued look after CE but I always liked the look of the flood in CE the most

short plank
#

Just noticed it’s 12:30, holy moly. Goodnight o/

versed helm
#

Gn

brazen fox
loud kestrel
jade pollen
#

How did zeta halo get damaged? Like that giant break in it

untold wasp
jade pollen
untold wasp
#

it was during one of the memory flashbacks near the end of the game

jade pollen
#

Yeah I must have just skipped it or not been paying attention

scarlet quiver
#

Heh, it happens

#

I am ready for a campaign DLC

#

How about, Johnson in the background telling marines about the time he had a couple of sticks and a rock to share with his whole platoon?

versed helm
#

at halo wars 2 did the new ring got deployed at the first ring that chief blew up?

gilded mason
#

It was attempting to get there, yeah. Though it was stopped mid-transit.

last anchor
#

No word on its fate yet

versed helm
terse pecan
#

why does spark call chief Reclaimer in h3

unique rune
#

Because he is a Reclaimer?

humble yacht
#

The Harbinger talked about The Reformation, so I wonder if there are Reformers

untold wasp
#

wasn't the reformation the thing they said to repair the ring

humble yacht
#

Sounded separate to me

#

The Harbinger made it sound like the Reformation would begin upon releasing the Endless.

#

It’s not like the endless were required for the ring to repair itself

frigid tiger
#

can someone explain to me how ONIs clearance levels work?

lost cliff
#

Why would The Endless work with Atriox?

main rivet
#

They probably wouldn't, long term.

#

They were working together as allies of convenience.

versed helm
#

They had a common goal but didn’t trust each other

#

Alliance would’ve broken apart eventually

#

Unless Atriox managed to mend it

#

@lost cliff

lost cliff
#

I see thx

jolly furnace
#

I mean they will no doubt try to fire the Array and wipe out the galaxy so they can take over

last anchor
#

Sounded more to me like the Harbinger wanted to free her species and then inherit the Mantle instead of Humanity.

forest spear
#

And lockes helmet was found on the shoulder of one of the two spartan killers

#

So most likely dead

versed helm
# frigid tiger can someone explain to me how ONIs clearance levels work?

From what I can understand, ONI clearance levels function similarly to the security clearance system used by the US
They determine which information are protected, and who can access them
There are 5 main tiers, with each one more important and protected than the last
Top Secret: The most important and secretive information, assumedly only able to be accessed by few high-level officers
Secret: A step down from top secret, still important to be protected
Confidential: Not commonly accessed by most employees
Restrictive: Protected, but can be accessed by some individuals with clearance
Unclassified: Information that is minimally protected and can be accessed by a majority of ONI employees

versed helm
#

There was leaked halo infinite mega blocks toys a while back that showed Locke in rugged attire without his armor

#

Maybe Hyperius and Tovarus managed to take off some pieces of his armor but not outright kill him.

gilded mason
versed helm
#

Some decently big YouTuber cited it as evidence so I took it at face value

#

Even if that isn’t true it’s still a possibility

#

Would be lame if they killed Locke offscreen

craggy sierra
#

Rule #1. Literally never, under any circumstances should you listen to a Halo youtuber. Especially about lore.

last anchor
#

Im still convinced that Locke tore his damaged helmet off and beaned Hyperious with it, making good his escape afterwards.
Hyperious kept the helmet as a trophy of his "victory", but if he hadn't been cleaned by Cheif, Locke would have come back for him later when he was done with Operation BREAKER TRIP

versed helm
last anchor
#

This is, after all, Spartan Jameson Locke. Dealing with dangerous, important enemies is kind of his job, before and after he was a Spartan.

versed helm
#

What would you guys say are the best halo lore YouTubers

#

I primarily listen to Halo Canon and Installation 00 for that type of stuff

gilded mason
#

If ya gotta listen to one, just go with Halo Canon

near tide
#

Halofollower annoys me

#

I don’t like his type of speculation

versed helm
#

I don’t bother with Halofollower outside of the odd video

near tide
#

The normal lore videos are good though

versed helm
#

Hiddenexperia is cool if you want to listen to some niche halo stories, particularly ONI or Flood related, but usually I prefer Halo Canon.

craggy sierra
#

Xperia is really not that good to listen to

#

He has an extreme bias and will constantly misconstrue lore to build this grand conspiracy theory view of the universe he has.

versed helm
#

Yeah his voice can be grating after a while, even if that isn’t his fault, and he isn’t good with the analytical stuff.

unique rune
#

Halo Canon is pretty much the only one whose voice and takes I can listen to for longer than 5 minutes

versed helm
#

Like I said I usually only watch his videos like the flood or ONI horror stories.

gilded mason
unique rune
#

Thinking about the time HaloFollower seemed to be copying Xperia’s content

craggy sierra
#

The less I hear him talk about his seed the better.

versed helm
#

Installation 00 does plenty of deep dives on Halo technology and is calming to listen to personally. He does delve into speculation quite a bit but he’s usually transparent about it in my experience.

last anchor
last anchor
versed helm
#

It’s a inside joke at this point

#

The guy has an absurd amount of flood videos

last anchor
#

00 does lore and world building intentionally based on his outside expereince (since as far as I can tell he has either a mechanical engineering or a chemistry degree of some kind or another).

#

Which works out nicely since for the most part a lot of other channels just kind of "put out whats there" rather than theorizing.

#

Ive wanted to do lore and theory videos on the weapons and vehicles of the UNSC for years but I dont have the talent

versed helm
#

Installation 00’s type of speculation is nice

#

Trying to understand the mechanics of the halo universe and if any of it can be translated into reality is neat

#

Plus isn’t he behind Project Mjolnir

last anchor
#

He is.

tacit charm
#

well his first mac video is at least

versed helm
#

Are you talking about the Macs make no sense videos or the Mac Cannon analysis video

#

Or both

tacit charm
#

the second

#

pretty sure there was nothing wrong with the mac making no sense video

#

man stated macs to be in gigatons even though there's a krapton of sources that states they're in the kilotons/low megatons range

#

heavy cruiser and several destroyers over onyx got yeeted by 30 megatons mines

versed helm
tacit charm
#

also ive had to recheck rama's calcs and forerunner feats and well heavy ion systems and the shanigans of maethrillian blows a hole into the notion of forerunners ships being op

terse lava
#

What now?

last anchor
#

Just the usual MAC stuff

tacit charm
terse lava
#

Almost makes me wonder if they could have been far more powerful during the human forerunner war

tacit charm
#

depends on the description of that heavy ion systems

#

plus you see a fortress class only yeet a section of one of the og rings (while it was already shattering) instead of just tearing right through it like a hot knife through butter

terse lava
#

True, thoufh we have never seen anything actually tear through a halo ring

last anchor
#

Bar the detonation of the Pillar of autumn, but then, when a fusion reactor (or in this case, THREE) goes off, you get a small sun. It iddnt so much "tear through" as "delete from existance"

terse lava
#

It made a 5km deep crater

tacit charm
#

dont think the novel ever stated if that was a 5km deep or in diameter crater

#

ye it just says carved a 5km crater into the ring

terse lava
#

@tacit charm " as the cruisers fusion drives went critical, a compact sun blossomed on the surface of halo. Its thermonuclear sphere carved a five-kilometer crater into the superdense ring material and powerful pressure waves rippling throughout the structure." Page 381, The Flood

tacit charm
#

i just said that

#

;-;

terse lava
#

Just wanted to add the full context

#

But seeing as it says into rather than across I would say that implies 5km deep

#

Man I enjoyed this book

short plank
versed helm
edgy depot
#

I know that Halo started as a game, then got books afterward to expand the world and lore of the series. I've never read any of the books, so I gotta ask. Was there anything from the books that made it into any of the games?

#

Characters, weapons, locations, stuff like that.

versed helm
#

She was part of fireteam Osiris in Halo 5

edgy depot
#

Oh, cool!

versed helm
#

Also pretty much all of the Greg Bear forerunner saga lore heavily influenced Halo 4 and beyond

edgy depot
#

I had no idea.

versed helm
#

The Halo franchise revolves around the games so it’s uncommon to see a bunch of original EU concepts pop up in the games, especially the Bungie titles. 343 works a lot more closely with Halo authors than Bungie did, so that’s changed a bit, but Halo’s core will always be the video games.

edgy depot
#

That's still cool to see.

#

Not very many series that have an EU acknowledge theirs to the same degree Halo has been recently.

versed helm
#

When it comes to Sci-Fi in gaming def not.

#

Star Wars shows are basically drawing plot lines from their EU at this point

#

And characters

edgy depot
#

Clone Wars seasons 1-6 definitely. Season 7, not so much. And Rebels... Not at all from what i've seen.

versed helm
#

Mostly thinking of Mando S2 and TBoBF

edgy depot
#

Practically all of Star Wars' EU was rendered 'Not Cannon' after the Disney buyout.

#

By who else but Kathleen Kennedy.

versed helm
#

By EU I was referring to the canon extended universe

edgy depot
#

Oh, my mistake.

versed helm
#

Most people haven’t watched TCW or Rebels but Filoni and Favreau are using the plot lines and characters in those shows to drive the stories in the live action series.

#

Which I have mixed feelings on but that’s off topic

edgy depot
#

Right. Back to Halo.

versed helm
edgy depot
#

I wonder if anything from the books retcons anything from the games. Or vice versa.

versed helm
#

Halo Reach was basically a high budget retcon of The Fall of Reach novel

edgy depot
#

I had heard about that.

versed helm
#

Ik in the Nylund books (The Fall of Reach & First Strike) it’s stated or heavily implied that the UNSC was just first encountering Elites on Reach and Brutes during the events of first strike

#

Which was later revised in rereleases but can be found in the original copies

#

In lore a Brute chieftain made first contact with Humanity, and the UNSC was well aware of elites decades before the invasion of Reach

edgy depot
#

Huh. Cool.

frigid tiger
versed helm
#

I don’t think so
They do have supplemental levels for specific types of information
And the gregorian system?

tacit charm
# versed helm Wouldn’t say that’s a easy feat even by forerunner standards

it isnt, last i checked four cruisers took some time to actually break apart an og halo ring, a fortress only managed to shatter and fling a chunk of another og ring due to the ring activating its disintegrative sequence and well you still have that heavy ion system on planet crackers and mantle's approach buckling continental plates

#

i mean dont get me wrong forerunners can destroy and create planets sure (although creating one takes far longer than just simply yeeting one) it's just they cant do it with a singular warship

versed helm
#

Forerunner ships are at least capable of completely glassing planets?

tacit charm
#

ye

#

depends how much you want to glass it

#

and how long

versed helm
#

I imagine they had far less trouble glassing planets than the covenant

tacit charm
#

oh they did

versed helm
#

I remember a Halo 4 terminal which showed ancient human ships annihilating the surface of a flood infected forerunner planet.

tacit charm
#

last i checked the cov required hundreds of ships just to glass a planet (if you reread the quote again it might even imply the cov cant actually glass whole worlds or at least glass it in a sufficient time amongkle )

tepid sinew
tacit charm
#

ye

#

about that

tepid sinew
#

ignoring the halo infinite cutscene?

tacit charm
#

no

#

im about to address it

versed helm
#

There were a bunch of guardians present

#

I think Spartan is trying to say that a single forerunner warship isn’t capable of completely turning a planet into rubble

tacit charm
#

either those guardians have 1/7 the power to yeet a planet like dosiac which begs the question why is your police force more powerful than literally 99% of your military warships or they act similarly to onyx sentinels i.e they become stronger via fusion or in this case when in close proximity of other guardians

#

also still unknown whether the guardians have to be in a specific formation in order to destroy a planet i.e a circle or they can whatever formation they want

#

btw dont bring up oh forerunner fleet can yeet stars stuff because first off no time is given on how long this takes, how many ships there are, what types of ships are in the fleet, what method they used etc

terse pecan
#

guys halo would win all they need is a lot of spartans and give each one a CE magnum

versed helm
#

So true

tepid sinew
terse pecan
#

"I have an army"
"We have a Spartan"

versed helm
#

God’s certified weapon of choice

tacit charm
#

also i need to recheck the whole swarm of war sphinx flipping a continent stuff, idr if the novel stated it was an actual continent or a continent sized city

versed helm
#

If the Forerunners had CE magnums they would have beaten the Flood(real)

tacit charm
versed helm
#

He didn’t keep it loaded son

tacit charm
#

oof

versed helm
#

Had to find ammo as he went

loud kestrel
#

and the entire reason... was because he called him son

versed helm
#

💀

#

Possibly the most brain dead theory I’ve ever heard

loud kestrel
#

lmao

tacit charm
#

pretty sure that's confirmed by Frank O Connor and halo the flood

loud kestrel
#

NO

tacit charm
#

it was though

#

didnt you know?

#

very interesting and funny part of lore

loud kestrel
#

nonononononononononononono not related by blood

gilded mason
#

It was a very emotional scene, to be honest.

tacit charm
#

man just tries to hide it throughout the flood

loud kestrel
#

keyes was with halsey when they found john

#

keyword

#

FOUND

#

not MADE

tacit charm
#

guessing you didnt see the infamous keyes and john in a tent scene in the flood

loud kestrel
#

😨

loud kestrel
fair hazel
#

No

loud kestrel
#

no what?

#

like no their wrong or no im wrong

versed helm
#

No

loud kestrel
frigid tiger
sour geode
tacit charm
#

amongkle well you just got jebaited

versed helm
#

When does Halo Spartan Assault take place? I get that it’s between 3 and 4 but which part of it. The actual conflicts or the simulation the cadets are playing on their tablets? Someone tag me when replying please so I can read later. Thank you.

unique rune
versed helm
unique rune
#

As in when the Spartans would be playing the simulation?

versed helm
#

Yeah

unique rune
#

It’s vague but presumably it would be at some point after the events of Halo 4’s campaign, given Roland’s presence.

versed helm
#

Cool, and thank you

last anchor
#

Could also be during the 6 month gap between the Battle of Earth and the Second Battle of Requiem since Roland was activated when they returned to Earth

trim ravine
#

I do not see another place, but has anyone read the Halo books? are they worth it? or they just follow the game and not add anything?

last anchor
#

Only book that does that (and even then it STILL manages to add stuff) is The Flood by Dietz.

#

Everything else adds to the existing universe and by technicality if you wanna understand whats going on in Halo 4 you need to read four ish books .

#

The Fall of Reach leads directly into Halo CE, which is also told in The Flood, and CE leads into the book First Strike which also ties into Halo 2

#

After that you have something like 30 novels, various comic runs, two animated series (though one is more shorts than anything), and two audio dramas...no wait 3, I need to finish Memory Agent

trim ravine
last anchor
#

Ones on Spotify, the other two WERE on Tumblr but I dont think they are anymore

#

Presumably SOMEONE saved it. Search Hunt The Truth

versed helm
#

Is the halo app still a thing

#

Because I’m pretty sure hunt the truth was on there a few years ago

runic wharf
#

If S stands for Sierra, like Sierra 117, then that does the A in names like A266 mean?

last anchor
#

Alpha

runic wharf
#

That was one of my guesses but I wanted to make sure lol

last anchor
#

Spartan-IIIs were deployed in three specific companies;
Alpha (wiped out almost to a man during Operation Prometheus, with few pulled off survivors continuing. Of which we only know of one who might still be alive)
Beta (wiped in Operation Torpedo, two survivors, Tom and Lucy)
And Gamma (which never saw proper field use as the war ended before they saw total action)

#

Delta was theorized but later canceled as the S-IVs filled the required roll of drowning the foe in supersoldiers

runic wharf
#

That explains why characters like Emile were A239 and Kat was B320

last anchor
#

And Six was B312, yes

#

Carter, Jun and Emile were Alpha Company survivors.
Kat and Six were Beta
Jorge was of course an S-II

versed helm
#

Besides Noble team who are the other Cat-2 Spartan 3’s?

last anchor
#

Thom was one before his death on Maramore (I think)
Other than that...not too manyu

near tide
near tide
near willow
trim ravine
ebon coyote
#

HELLO EVERYONE! so i just fired up Infinite hoping that i would be greeted by some very welcome surprises

#

MY DISSAPPOINTMENT IS IMMEASURABLE

#

AND MY DAY IS RUINED

#

no that was not a typo i know how i spelled disappointment the first time lol

#

kinda reminds me of Borderlands teh presequel but that sforgivable becaus ethe people responsible for that amazing craftsmanship of a game no longer exist

#

BUT THIS IS BLOODY 343!

#

BOB SAGET!

#

also...RIP bob saget you will be missed

#

🙏

#

🫂

loud kestrel
noble fiber
#

Hellooo, question for the halo fans. Are there any novels where John has memories of his childhood? Or was this just done by the show? I've onyl read about half the novels so I'm unsure.

valid hemlock
loud kestrel
#

(dont forget tartarus and the others that served the covenant... i am so so late to the talk)

versed helm
#

Halo fans kind of have a problem of painting a entire species, made up of billions of members, with broad strokes because of the actions of their military and leadership.

#

Like the covenant was massive and made up of thousands of member worlds.

digital torrent
loud kestrel
#

even for awhile i was like that

#

i realize now tho, they do not define the entire species

pale zenith
#

enough match the pattern, its shortcutd to all

versed helm
#

We see a relatively small portion of the covenant in the games and even EU.

last anchor
versed helm
#

Like I said they’re big and encompass a large amount of species and worlds.

#

Plus species like the Sangheili, Kig-Yar, and Grunts were strong armed into the covenant.

last anchor
#

Well technically, the Sangheili founded it via the Writ of Union.
Kig-Yar and Unggoy, yeah, forcefully inducted.
The Brutes were willing joiners more or less since just before the Covenant arrived they'd kinda nuked themselves into oblivion.
Drones were threatened in but they settled in pretty easily since they're kinda mindless bugs.
The Lekgolo were "tamed" obviously.
And the Huragok were just kinda there to fix stuff

versed helm
#

Yeah technically but that would’ve never happened if the prophets weren’t waging war on them with a forerunner keyship

last anchor
#

True.

versed helm
#

halo mythos

versed helm
tacit charm
#

brutes are cringe

noble fiber
tacit charm
last anchor
digital torrent
craggy sierra
humble yacht
#

... did.... did you mean seppuku?

gilded mason
#

Saying "commit sudoku" is a common joke misspelling.

humble yacht
#

._.

#

kinda rude to the japanese language

last anchor
#

Insults to Japanese have been a thing since Engrish came into existence I think

humble yacht
#

😐

#

Let’s not devolve into stereotyping, pls

near tide
gaunt oakBOT
#

Do not tag Admins or Moderators unless immediate action is needed. If you see anything that does not abide by these rules and guidelines, please tag a Moderator to bring it to their attention.

#

To disable the ping/tag when replying, please click or tap the "on" button at the right hand side of the chat box in order to turn it off.
For users on PC, if you hold Shift while clicking reply the tag will be automatically turned off.

O6l6TKF.png
cosmic siren
#

Hello lore people

#

I would like to ask

#

How do sangheili procreate?

gilded mason
#

Same way as humans

quiet bane
cosmic siren
#

But we seen naked sangheili before, and and from what I've seen at least they're are no genitals

gilded mason
#

Do you think the games would literally show off protruding junk?

cosmic siren
#

Yes

last anchor
#

Not unless they're looking to get censored to the ground.

#

They're oviparious though, instead of live young, which makes sense as they're reptilian.

cosmic siren
#

Oh interesting

#

Sorry for the odd question

#

Couldn't get it out of my head

gilded mason
#

Possibly ovoviviparious as well, if we take what was possibly said at Halo Outpost as fact.

cosmic siren
#

Now

#

On to the real good questions

#

Guess I can't ask that

#

Ok

#

Oh

#

Omg

#

Why is feces censored

gilded mason
#

Say feces, then

cosmic siren
#

All the other words for feces are censored

versed helm
last anchor
#

Sangheili eat and digest the same way most exo-nutritious lifeforms with an open system do.

#

Solid waste is handled in the usual manner.

#

Presumably in far less quantities than humans however since Sangheilios is a massively desert planet and food for their evolutionary originators was probably scarce and/or quite willing to fight back.

#

Their digestive systems are presumably much more efficent and possibly even stronger considering they cant, you know, chew.

#

Actually on that how do you think they eat stuff, do they just, like, put it to their mandibles and they close and shove it into the open throat-hole in the back?

valid hemlock
exotic lagoon
#

why did halo infinite campaign change so much like change to Atriox and stuff

humble yacht
#

What was changed about atriox?

lucid sluice
#

Why is keys black?

#

And why can we see chiefs face?

gilded mason
gilded mason
lucid sluice
#

Still…. Just feels so… wrong???

#

Idk

#

I just saw this today

gilded mason
#

Eh, not really.

lucid sluice
#

Didn’t even know that the show was out

humble yacht
versed helm
jade pollen
#

Are huragok affected by a halo firing

humble yacht
#

No

#

Synthetic life is not harmed by halos

jade pollen
#

Ty I didn’t think they’d be killed by the halos since they’re just squishy monitors

narrow gulch
#

Hmm, what ever happened to Vergil after H3 ODST?

last anchor
#

Hes currently assigned to Infinity I believe. He was retreived, alongside Sadie Endesia, from one of ONIs bases on the Dark Side of the Moon (insert Pink Floyd here) during the Created Uprising.
He was involved in the operations on the S-IVs training station and later the colony Hole In The Wall. Since everyone who returned with Buck to Infinity was aboard, hes probably on it too.

tacit charm
#

he luckily survived the moon shenigans

last anchor
#

No clue after that.

#

Hopefully he was detached and permenantly assigned to Dare and the reformed Alpha-9

tacit charm
last anchor
#

That being said...can Huragok survive vacuum? I dont think they can, a bunche of em got mulched in First Strike by Cortana vaping the entire ship

tacit charm
#

would be funny if they did that again

craggy sierra
#

I mean unlike Rookie, Vergil's actually a character

#

Like once you actually look closely at ODST you kinda realize Rookie has zero impact on what the main story of the game actually is. He's literally just a framing device and basically the entire rest of the squad would've been fine without him.

thin yew
#

Not necessarily fine without him, the squad barely got the Oliphant through as it was and they had that whole last stand at the end facing off tons of Covenant forces

#

He had no impact on the story up to the end section, but he still put in the work helping get everyone out.

narrow gulch
last anchor
#

As do I

snow dock
#

So is the US Army UCP Camo now lore at this year? Or was that just a budget decision to re use surplus uniforms? Referring to the series

last anchor
#

Probably canon if its on screen. Presumably "if it aint broke dont fix it" continues even in the Halo universe.

#

See the AKs and the ancient CMA machine gun.

#

Camo is camo, it serves the same purpose no matter what.

snow dock
#

I mean its a cool addition, I like the camo and think it fits

#

But the armor plating is looking :/

versed helm
#

Like at least Noble Six had some lines and a character trait (being a lone wolf).

craggy sierra
#

Is it a character trait if it literally never matters?

#

Like that's literally only ever told to you that he's a "lone wolf" but for the entire runtime of the game nothing he does actually implies that was the case. He doesn't end up splitting up from the team or diverging from objectives or anything you'd characteristically see a lone wolf type character thrust into a team environment do.

versed helm
#

Sure, it wasn’t used to it’s fullest extent within the story because Noble 6 isn’t much of a character to begin with, but it’s something.

gilded mason
#

I think Waffle was talking about more voluntary splitting.

craggy sierra
#

I don't think getting yeeted from a space ship and then wandering around a city trying to regroup is really the same as actually struggling to work with a team.

#

Also death irony is like the most basic thing in writing. It's not special or unique to Halo.

versed helm
#

Fair enough, but the way you worded that comment wasn’t great.

#

What are you even trying to argue

#

When did I even imply I thought death irony is special or unique to Halo.

gilded mason
#

He's saying being a lone wolf was really more of an informed attribute rather than being something that effects the plot

versed helm
#

I got that

craggy sierra
#

My point was that the whole thing kinda felt shallow as far as character atributes go because it doesn't actually impact the character at all.

versed helm
#

I’m not trying to argue 6’s merits as a character, just that even a nothing burger of a character as him still offers more than Rookie.

#

I totally agree that 6 is shallow

craggy sierra
#

Valid

versed helm
#

It’s kind of hard to deny when that was the developer intent behind him.

gilded mason
#

Sadly

versed helm
#

Reach wasn’t a character focused game so I wasn’t too pressed by 6’s lack of character.

#

Wish he had slightly more charisma like Chief though

craggy sierra
#

Okay so remember that thing you said about the developer intent?

versed helm
#

Yeah

craggy sierra
#

Guess what Bungie's directly stated intentions about reach were?

#

"character driven story"

versed helm
#

🗿

#

Bungie really should not have marketed Reach as that, because on that front it completely fails.

craggy sierra
#

I could take take 6 being a bit of a stick in the mud but noble team as a whole has their defining character trait be the fact they all die.

versed helm
#

On a surface level I found Noble team likable, but they’re just not very deep or interesting characters. Reach’s selling point is witnessing the fall of Reach through their eyes, not following their story and drama with Reach as a backdrop.

#

Like I said if you try to spin Reach in a character driven narrative it fails pretty hard. Whatever Bungie’s intentions were it def did not end up being a good character drama.

craggy sierra
versed helm
#

I can’t think of any game that tells the story Reach did nearly as well. There’s a sense of hopelessness and vanity throughout that I liked quite a bit. Seemingly a lot of the fanbase did too although there’s still the lingering controversy over the retcons.

#

It would’ve been preferable if Bungie hadn’t thrown TFoR out of the window but I respect that, as creators of the franchise, they shouldn’t be constrained by EU material that they weren’t even fond of.

craggy sierra
#

It was this major cornerstone event, the defeat that basically cemented the idea to most of humanity "this is it, we are dead" but no one seems all that particularly phased by whole thing.

I think think the issues with reach are shown the moment the covenant appear. The only reaction anyone has is Jorge saying "The Covenant? On Reach?" Followed by 3 minutes later a monotone guy who sounds like he just slammed a bottle of xannax saying "the covenant are on reach, I repeat, the covenant are on reach"

versed helm
#

Sure, they could’ve added a more visceral reaction, but these are a team of Spartans. I think the better and more poignant reaction we get is from Admiral Holland (?) later on where you can just here the shock and dread in his voice as Carter reports the news to him.

#

The dialogue in that scene really sold me on how threatening the covenant were. It helped that it was shortly after the encounter with the Zealots.

#

I do feel like the initial encounter could’ve been set up to be more impactful although

#

I’ll give you that

craggy sierra
#

If you want a game that is about instilling the sense of hopelessness that's literally what the Silent Hill games were about.

Hell even compared to CE where you're stranded on an alien ring world with the covenant and then the flood does a much better job at conveying hopelessness.

In that game chief basically killed god knows how many UNSC allies just to blow the ring without any ability to rescue any of them at the end of it.

#

Reach feels like it's movie hopelessness. A big budget block buster movie that only goes ankle deep into its actual themes and ideas without really saying anything about them at all.

But it still won an oscar somehow.

versed helm
# craggy sierra If you want a game that is about instilling the sense of hopelessness that's lit...

Idk why Silent Hill is being brought up here. The emotions I experience in SH are very different to the Halo franchise.

CE is bleak if you actually analyze what happened, but presentation and tone are pretty important when telling a story. CE is largely bright, colorful, and upbeat, with dashes of horror throughout. Reach is gritty, militaristic, and tragic. Everything from the artstyle, music, and sound design accentuate the emotions the game is trying to evoke. It was effective to me.

#

I’m not trying to say Reach is a masterclass in writing or is even the best written halo game, but I respect what Bungie crafted.

craggy sierra
#

To me it felt like I was being manipulated the same way an oscar bait movie does.

#

It could've served as the backdrop to the strongest writing the series had. Instead Reach uses its ~8 hours of run time to wow the player with such intense notions of "main characters die when they get shot" and "The covenant are powerful and good at killing humanity"

Thanks Reach, I kinda was under the impression that's why we were losing this war in the last 3 games but good to know.

#

You ever play Mass Effect 3?

versed helm
#

Halo is the video game equivalent to a blockbuster movie franchise. At every game’s core it’s just a story of humanity fighting a uphill battle against an evil, alien threat with plenty of stoic and charismatic heroes. Reach doesn’t really need to go deep into it’s subject matter, crafting a avant grand masterpiece, to effectively convey its themes and plot. Could it have been better? Absolutely. Do I think it succeeded at what it aimed to be? Sure.

#

And no I haven’t touched the ME franchise

#

I’ve heard good things about the first 2 games

craggy sierra
#

3's also good and it's better than 2 but that's not the point here

#

3 is the game where the reapers finally show up right, and they show up with a bang. You're fighting through a city basically being wiped off the map in the intro and it ends with you fleeing earth but as you're fleeing this piano track begins fading in as you see a kid board an evac shuttle before it gets shot down and you see just swarms and swarms of reapers coming down in overwhelming force as you leave the planet behind to rally support to fight this unfathomable enemy.

#

To me it kinda feels like Reach took 8 hours to do what ME3 did in like 15 minutes of gameplay and 10 minutes of cutscenes and half as effectively. It sells the hopelessness and futility of this situation and then makes way for the story to use that as a backdrop for its characters as the game is then spent navigating this hopeless scenario.

versed helm
#

You might be right for all I know, but I can’t really disagree or agree because I haven’t played ME3.

craggy sierra
#

Go to like 1:42 in this video to get the crux of what I mean. This literally feels like Reach condensed into a minute with greater emotional weight.
https://youtu.be/-6RHg-BCk0g

versed helm
#

ME3’s narrative is controversial but that’s not something I can agree or disagree with either.

craggy sierra
#

It's literally just the ending that's controversial.

#

Everything up to that point is really the best character writing the series has on display.

#

My point is that I feel like Reach could have done more with its runtime without even needing to be a 20 hour RPG.

One of the ideas I constantly float is how the story would've played out if Carter had died first. Cause he's basically needed to keep Emile and Jorge from going at eachothers throats.

So you could've had the story played out where Noble Team is basically becoming unfurled from the top down as death and losses mount on the squad. This would've also added to the whole element of hopelessness cause if you wanna know what pure hopelessness is, it's not knowing what to do but Noble Team, even at their lowest points are constantly being depicted as in control of any given situation they're placed in.

#

And I know people like to say Halo's a power fantasy but you can't exactly have a "hopeless power fantasy". At least not without trying to setup some Spec Ops: The Line meta commentary about action narratives.

versed helm
#

Anyways standards and the story Bungie wanted to tell are pretty important when making comparisons like this. Mass Effect is a singleplayer RPG franchise who’s existence pretty much hinges on its writing. ME3 did have the benefit of 2 previous games to flesh out their characters and universe as well. Halo on the other hand is a FPS that has to balance both its campaign and multiplayer. For as prolific as Halo’s campaigns are I think it’s safe to say gameplay>story philosophy is rather important for the devs and community. Halo 3 kind of proves that imo. It doesn’t surprise me that Mass Effect has stronger writing than a Halo game given all the above.

To add on to this Reach doesn’t really need to present 15 minutes of gameplay and 10 minutes of cutscenes right off the bat. The game tells the story of an invasion. Everything from the beginning to Jorge’s sacrifice is intended to give a false sense of hope to the player, which is then pulled away in a very well done way. Exodus was enough to accomplish what that video did for me, even if it took an entire mission. Civilians are slaughtered by merciless waves of covenant brutes, jackals, and skirmishers. We see the UNSC on the back foot the entire time as they’re desperately trying to retreat from the covenant onslaught. The UNSC was explicitly losing until 6 showed up. Story beats like this are why Reach appeals to me.

It’s fine if you dislike it, I totally understand why. Just wanted to present my side of the debate. Besides Halo 2 I don’t think any of the games have given us a completely solid story.

craggy sierra
#

Yeah but to give an example closer to home. It feels like if Halo CE spent nothing but 8 hours establishing the threat of the flood instead of concisely doing it in the span of one mission and moving the story on to how to solve it.

#

Reach kinda just has the characters fail upwards and die, all the while they never flinch or falter, or even stop for a moment to think about how terrible everything is.

#

Carter gets like one throwaway line hacking a door saying "I wish Kat was here" and that's like it. That's the emotional payoff to one of the characters in this implied couple dying.

unique rune
#

Reach has some high points but the rest to me feels like it's bogged down by mediocre filler while not really adequately touching on anything that would come off as like, actually impactful

#

I like the mood Exodus sets but the rest of the game doesn't do much to endear you to the setting or characters, which I don't think is really good for a story that's trying to be "setting-driven", whatever the hell that's supposed to mean, or character-driven.

versed helm
#

I’ve already admitted that the weakest aspect of Reach are the characters and their drama/conflict, or lack of it. We get hints at it throughout the campaign but it’s relatively unimportant to the events that are unfolding.

craggy sierra
#

The events that are unfolding is an alien invasion though. I could setup a dart board with every sci-fi game of the last 2 decades on it and probably hit one about those events.

unique rune
#

Come to think of it, I kinda hate the "From the beginning, you know the end" marketing tagline for Reach.
Like yeah, if I already know how it ends then you better do a good job of making me care about everything that leads up to it.

versed helm
craggy sierra
#

My critique here is that you could just shuffle some names around and take out the covenant and suddenly Reach would be viewed as probably the most generic sci-fi story on the market after you remove it from its associated franchise.

tacit charm
versed helm
craggy sierra
#

A lot of the praise I see for Reach is stuff like "it finally showed how powerful the covenant really were".

...so if it wasn't the covenant would the story still be good? Say if this was like a first entry for a new Sci-Fi IP?

#

Or would it have been written of as non-aspirational shclock with some decent level design?

near tide
craggy sierra
tacit charm
#

tks very confusing assembly logs

#

cov only be like glassing a whole planet takes 30 years with 2000 ships

versed helm
#

What I find you’re missing when it comes to the praise for this game is that there’s far, FAR more that goes on when it comes to immersing the player into the events of the game and then evoking emotions. Reach is very good at using set pieces, music, artstyle, and other aspects of game design to pull the player in. It’s very cohesive and sets a consistent tone throughout.

tacit charm
#

although with that being said silent storms does actually hint to this being true to some degree

craggy sierra
# versed helm Reach’s identity is inseparable from the franchise as a whole though. The game f...

So that's the thing. It really doesn't. Nothing until the last mission and a half holds any real relevance to CE where they wrote (and even contradicted the book that was the original prelude to CE) Halsey just calling you up and being like "Yo deliver this AI to the Pillar of Autumn, also 30 minutes or the delivery is free"

The actual plot relevance as a prequel to CE only takes up like less than an hour of run time.

versed helm
#

I think many players just appreciate that Bungie made a fun & immersive campaign that also managed to tell a decent alien invasion story in the halo universe. It’s not that deep nor unjustifiable.

versed helm
tacit charm
#

sorta

craggy sierra
#

I'll still herald it as the biggest missed potential this series has had to date.

tacit charm
#

they're never mentioned again

unique rune
#

The Assembly datapads exist in vague maybe canon territory

#

I think 343 just kinda doesn't want to talk about them

tacit charm
#

still though

#

30 years to fully glass the surface of a planet with 2000 covenant warships will always be my canon

versed helm
#

Not a fan of AI Illuminati personally

tacit charm
craggy sierra
versed helm
#

It has no shortage of fans but has plenty of critics as well.

#

Like at least with Halo 5 most of the community were on the campaign hate train

craggy sierra
#

Yeah but I also begrudge them trying to do what they did with Infinite to it.

#

Feels like the cowards way out.

#

Like...

#

We all agreed that what they did to Jul M'dama was bad.

#

But they just Jul M'dama'd a whole game and we're supposed to view this as an improvement? The fact that we've now gotten a third terrible wrap up to a mainline Halo story is meant to be a good thing?

#

Even if 5 was scuffed I would've sooner it stick to its guns and try to improve its mistakes instead of throwing literally everything in the trash and then butchering the cool new faction Halo Wars 2 brought to the table.

versed helm
#

I get that there was a heavy amount of pressure to move away from the created and prometheans, but ending Cortana’s story off screen is just a utter cop out.

#

The tried and true story of Chief fighting an uphill battle for humanity against an alien threat is reliable but tired at this point.

#

Would’ve been more interesting if the UNSC and Banished were on relatively even footing.

#

Or just don’t introduce the banished as the only & main antagonist.

#

Halo infinite had so much opportunity that was squandered.

#

Which surprises me because 343 had years of development

unique rune
#

At this point I just feel bad for 343 honestly

#

I have... issues with Infinite's campaign, and I feel like I can't entirely blame them on 343 after years of the fanbase screaming at them about things not being "classic"

craggy sierra
#

Literally nothing about the Banished makes sense anymore.

versed helm
#

Part of it’s on 343 and part of it is on the fans. The lack of biomes, horrid level design, and lackluster villains are on 343, but the Created being shafted in favor of the Banished was definitely a decision made in response to fan reception to H5.

#

Infinite made some good choices though.

craggy sierra
#

They never should have chosen an all out war against humanity but 343 needed something to make "humanity the underdogs" again.

versed helm
#

Gameplay is extremely satisfying and Chief is a better character in the games than ever.

craggy sierra
#

Good for chief's character. Can the series please move on from him yet?

unique rune
versed helm
craggy sierra
#

Like what is there left to do with the chief

versed helm
#

After infinite I don’t really know

craggy sierra
#

He has stopped like 5 apocalypses and gotten over his personal problems.

unique rune
#

Let him retire and go Diplomatic Corps and make only Sangheili titles going forward

craggy sierra
#

It's hard to not feel like this is going to be a dark age for Halo's writing.

versed helm
#

Ngl since I’ve played Halo 2 I was always hoping for a Thel centered game.

craggy sierra
#

Because the entire conflict with the banished does not make sense. The Banished do not make sense.

unique rune
#

The whole 'reset to status quo' thing has me... concerned for the time being.

versed helm
#

Banished blame humanity for Doisacs destruction, so genocide?

craggy sierra
versed helm
#

Yes

#

Cortana, while being created by Humanity, wasn’t acting for humanity.

craggy sierra
#

No, that's not even the reason

versed helm
#

Same goes for the rest of created AI

craggy sierra
#

Whose planet is Doisac?

versed helm
#

Brute’s

#

Interested in where this is going

craggy sierra
#

Are bruted the only species in the Banished?

versed helm
#

No

#

Although they do make up the majority of the Banished’s leadership.

craggy sierra
#

Why are elites and jackals who joined up for Mercenary work and stuff okay with a genocidal war campaign against humanity WHO ARE ALLIED WITH THEIR SPECIES.

near tide
#

Same way Spanish mercenaries have probably fought Spain in the past

#

Or in halo insurrectionists try to work with the covenant

versed helm
#

But besides some of the potential logical problems I think Banished going full genocide mode is in opposition to what the Banished are supposed to be

#

They’re imperialist and brutal, but also rational.

craggy sierra
#

You see it would be something if it was just pragmitisim and the Banished had a good paycheck but nothing in the Banished come across as that. Instead its this fanatical belief in "The Will of Atriox"

#

So the anti-religion mercenary faction is a cult apparently

versed helm
#

There may be anti human sentiments left over from the human covenant war but fundamentally the banished aren’t fueled by hatred for humanity or religious fever in general.

#

Or shouldn’t be at least

craggy sierra
#

*shouldn't be but are apparently

#

Congrats this is the foundation of the next major arc of the Halo universe. Nothing makes sense and it's against the covenant but stupider.

versed helm
#

I wouldn’t have minded the Banished being the infinity’s foes if Atriox was still the war chief and was only at war with humanity because there goals were unreconcilable.

craggy sierra
#

This is just going to end with the endless trying to kill everyone with the rings because Chekov's Gun dictates that they wouldn't have been written to have immunity if it wasn't going to be relevant and it's just gonna be like Halo 3 again or something but maybe with less crap dialog.

versed helm
#

If 343 just stuck with their guns after Halo 4 and hired some competent writers we wouldn’t have been in this situation.

#

But I feel for them.

craggy sierra
#

Infinite was written by the guy who did Arkham City

#

They had a good writer.

versed helm
#

Oh god lol

#

I don’t like City’s writing

craggy sierra
#

They just told him to write garbage

versed helm
#

Hot take of mine

craggy sierra
#

Bruh moment

versed helm
#

It’s very mid

#

But that’s besides the point

#

Really all these problems stem from them acting reactionary to the fans imo

fair hazel
#

Trusting again

versed helm
#

Instead of bringing back Cortana as an evil waifu in the next game maybe keep her on the shelf indefinitely.

craggy sierra
# versed helm Really all these problems stem from them acting reactionary to the fans imo

See what scares me the most is that Infinite got well regarded by a majority of people and I'm just a very loud minority in this regard. But I think it's gonna go downhill fast and hard from here because the foundation of what they're trying to setup is so fundamentally flawed and Infinite shows that if they just bluster past everything that doesn't make sense then people won't care as long as it reminds them "of the old games"

versed helm
#

Maybe don’t write off the plot and villain of Spartan ops with a bad action scene because fans weren’t responding well to SO

#

Etc etc

versed helm
craggy sierra
#

We're basically going to get several Episode 9's back to back in terms of story content in the games I feel.

unique rune
#

if they just bluster past everything that doesn't make sense
In true Halo 3 fashion all they need to do is blow up something big every other mission to distract the masses from shonky writing

versed helm
#

Depressing time to be a halo fan ngl

#

Hopefully with the next story dlc we get something that boost our faith in Infinite

craggy sierra
#

If that even happens

versed helm
#

Hoping to see unique biomes, new vehicles types scouring the map like scarabs, and slightly more unique side quest primarily.

unique rune
#

I just want more Jega content tbh

versed helm
craggy sierra
#

I don't wanna be doomer or anything here but I'm assuming the potential market for story DLC is people who beat the base campaign.

...looking at stream achievements only like 6% of players beat the campaign.

versed helm
#

MP will def be a focus but I truly doubt they’re going to completely forget the campaign side of the game.

craggy sierra
#

343 has more accurate data than what my assumption based on some achievements on one platform are but that is something that determines how much time or money they care to put into story material because your potential market for new story content seems to be less than 10% of the playerbase.

versed helm
#

343 promised that infinite would be a 10 year endeavor for Halo, so I expect some story content in that timespan.

#

Unless they blue ball us

#

Which is possible

craggy sierra
#

10 year endeavour could just mean support and content for the multiplayer.

versed helm
#

“The Endless” name was copyrighted by 343 recently

#

Pretty big hint that they’re working on some campaign focused DLC.

craggy sierra
#

They've stated a desire to do story DLCs but developers realizing their desires aren't financially viable is basically the story of industry

versed helm
#

Don’t know when it’ll release tho

#

We’ll see. Gonna be praying that this isn’t a GTA 5 situation.

near tide
versed helm
#

Frank

tacit charm
#

that was outlined in halo evolutions

#

but glassing the entire surface of a planet is another thing entirely

#

it's something going off on silent storms, evolutions and general cov feats (i guess anti feats of not being able to survive a 30 megaton nuke in space) that the covenant cant perform or at least perform it in a short amount of time like a week or two

arctic lotus
#

Can someone please explain to me what A contender class AI is and where it came from? I don’t understand their conception

last anchor
#

Contenders are the biggest and nastiest AIs the Forerunners made. They made two of them; Mendicant and Offensive Bias

#

Mendicant turned to the Flood and started wrecking house. Offensive was created to smack Mendicant around.
Basically each one is a terrifyingly competnet and powerful Artifical Intelligence

versed helm
#

mendicant and offensive bias > star wars

last anchor
#

Technically, even a modern day smart AI would do terrible stuff to the Star Wars universe. Most droids they have dont have the capability of operating at a smart AIs level.

#

And their computer systems have never been on the wrong end of something like Cortana. See; capture of Ascendant Justice

tacit charm
versed helm
#

The dreaded bedlams

#

I remember this hilarious thread under a Halo vs SW video where this guy kept saying that the Bedlam spirits would stomp all of Halo. Entire thread turned super toxic.

tacit charm
#

i mean going by statements Ur wrong wasnt actually wrong (i assume you mean echartladder's forerunners vs star wars yt video comment section debate)

#

though

#

it's a shame there has been some 'new' addition to star wars' cosmology that disproves this (or might make the celestials much more powerful than originally thought if you want to go down that road)

#

then again

#

there are those two Gods

craggy sierra
#

I don't even know much about or care for Starwars but yeah, kinda gotta agree the universe that has an entire class of people with physics manipulating brain powers would probably win.

versed helm
#

It’s just funny to me that some obscure entities from some throwaway legends story are supposedly capable of destroying the best of Halo

#

We don’t know too much about the precursors full capabilities but still

craggy sierra
#

Their defining characteristic is being dead so I wouldn't get too hung up on it.