lore-and-universe

[orchid kettle]

my le findings... le killed people?

[empty bloom]

"My leh findings calling for violence... Lead to violence?"

https://tenor.com/view/oppenheimer-cillian-murphy-cillian-murphy-peaky-blinders-gif-1787947313354313976

Carver always sounds like weird dude whenever we hear about him, but then, Halo Fall of Reach was made on a tight schedule-so thinking that through more may've been a bit hard.

[orchid kettle]

I could have sworn that the Carver Findings were public knowledge, since Halsey as a university student was peer reviewing his homework on it

Carver wasn't a military ONI analyst or anything, he was just a professor at a university

[empty bloom]

I'd assume that got curtailed and he got hush-hushed in terms of his work spreading rapidly.

But then, we have '''professors''' saying insane things already, and being honest, Carver's findings were... A bit weird and unrealistic, at least in my opinion.

Like, unless he was absolutely positively sure that somehow one side or the other was hellbent on actually wiping out the other's entire civilian and martial population via viruses or nukes or something, but even then, how the hell would it be a total mutual kill?

[orchid kettle]

I still hold that the Findings are basically a sci-fi prophecy plot

I honestly wonder if Nylund himself even really cares for that plot point anymore, considering I don't think he brings it up in Cole's story in Evolutions

instead insisting the Callisto Incident is when things really started getting out of hand

[hot zodiac]

The Carver Findings are from Halsey's Journal.

[empty bloom]

It'd make more sense. Granted, I still don't see how it'd lead to Spartans, but then, Spartans also started getting used as the world's heaviest and bluntest scalpel.

Suspiciously hammer-shaped scalpel;

[stoic hamlet]

I did like how the Encyclopedia clarified that ORION was just trying to get soldiers better suited to frontier combat, not necessarily “super humans”.

[orchid kettle]

i guess the idea in Nylund's mind is that Cole committing that lil war crime of pretending to surrender is what spurred the Innies to more radical, violent methods

[empty bloom]

Which would make sense.

I'd be pretty peeved too.

[orchid kettle]

Because hey, if the UNSC isn't going to play fair, why should they, I guess

[empty bloom]

Which makes sense for ORION, but how the hell does it explain the IIs?

Because they took these kids and made them effectively super-Janissary-Assassin-Ninjas, then gave them power armor that lights up like a Christmas tree on thermals.

[orchid kettle]

In Halsey's Journal, the devastating attack on New Harmony is what really solidified her resolve

altho obviously the S-IIs were already being planned before this Super 9/11 happened

[empty bloom]

Honestly, considering the UNSC also straight up has gene therapy, it also makes me wonder why the hell they went for kidnapping kids instead of artificial wombs and extensively curated gene-tampering.

I mean, part of it is presumably because it's a cheap way to make the UNSC more morally pitch black in one fell swoop, but still.

Seriously, it's like dumping four jars of vantablack on a stack of printer paper.

[orchid kettle]

Its kinda hard to tell which part of the Chief's backstory is Bungie and which is Nylund

aside from the Innies being the inciting incident, which is Nylund and Trautmann

but Im not sure if he came up with them being kidnapped kids or something

[empty bloom]

Given how... questionable most governments are in Microsoft first party shooters with a lot of Microsoft side story support, I'd wager it's Nylund and Trautmann.

Shudders in knowledge of Gears of War lore

[orchid kettle]

I dunno, finding out your protag is an inhuman killing machine is a twist in Marathon

and it sure feels like its a twist they keep hinting at in Destiny

[empty bloom]

Could also be one of the few things that actually got agreed upon.

[orchid kettle]

yeah, i assume Bungie just didn't want players to immediately know that

[hot zodiac]

Bungie approved everything.

If they actually said no, it wouldn't have been there.

[orchid kettle]

Compromising with your publisher is not necessarily the same thing as enthusiastic endorsement

https://twitter.com/docabominable/status/1602463915614638080?t=pHAl6QbmLdbVgCBqWvOPng&s=19

[hot zodiac]

lol

Don't trust Paul Russel's word exclusively.

Bungie did not retcon anything because they hated it.

[empty bloom]

Actually, the Bungie-Microsoft dysfunction is well documented on both sides of the fence. Eric Trautmann's experience with Bungie's inanity is one of the most slept on pieces of info in the fanbase, for example.

[hot zodiac]

Oh yeah, don't trust Trautmann either.

[empty bloom]

I trust him more than you, so.

[hot zodiac]

Do you believe "Bungie" hated ODSTs?

[empty bloom]

Absolutely.

'But they made a game about them' is an excuse that forgets people can change their mind.

[hot zodiac]

ODSTs can be seen in the first draft of Halo 2, and Jason Jones himself can be seen wearing an ODST shirt. They were included in every game after Halo 1.

[carmine sleet]

The fact that they had to convince them to put them into Halo 2 should be enough proof that people at Bungie didn't like them

[orchid kettle]

Yeah when both parties say TFoR's creation was an ordeal, I kinda believe them

[carmine sleet]

Obviously it isn't so simple as "All of Bungie hated the concept" but there still was an internal struggle to get them included in Halo 2

[hot zodiac]

TFoR's creation was an ordeal. Bungie also approved of everything.

[orchid kettle]

The vibe I got was:

"Hey, we should put ODSTs in the game!"

"Why? Who's gonna care but book fans?"

"We could make a cool action scene with the drop pod"

"APPROVED"

[empty bloom]

Forgive me for not really being easily swayed by some rando when I've seen multiple perspectives on both Microsoft's and Bungie's side corraborating that they got along like a co-ed and a slasher movie antagonist.

[carmine sleet]

Fair, but I assume there was a bit more pushback than that

[orchid kettle]

Well I just mean I assume what ultimately won them over was the prospect of getting to make an impactful, memorable cutscene

and not just referencing the book for its own sake

[empty bloom]

That sounds more Bungie's speed tbh.

[orchid kettle]

I dunno if there'd even really be ODST fans before Halo 2

because all they did in Fall of Reach was get folded by Chief

[hot zodiac]

I'm not disputing Bungie and Microsoft didn't get along, I'm just saying the things Eric Trautmann says don't make much sense.

[safe hawk]

Big green man shoots things and finishes the fight

[hot zodiac]

Bungie, as a collective, hated having to deal with any big brother like entity.

[empty bloom]

They don't make sense to you.

[hot zodiac]

"Bungie hated the ODSTs" doesn't make sense to Bungie giving them so much love.

Did someone say that to Eric? Maybe!

[empty bloom]

[orchid kettle]

If I recall, Trautmann/Nylund's account was very specifically Bungie not wanting players to know Chief's backstory

and the book was at one point cancelled until they fought tooth and nail to revive the project

[hot zodiac]

But I don't believe that person was Joesph Staten, or Jason Jones. Or anyone who actually seemed to be in-line with anyone else there.

[hot zodiac]

That was one aspect. And it was probably true.

[empty bloom]

It probably wasn't Staten, but that sort of kerfuffle doesn't really seem Staten's speed anyways.

[hot zodiac]

Bungie is usually cagey about giving the player character backstory.

[orchid kettle]

I mean, as the lead writer man, who else has as much skin in the game when it comes to story decisions than him

[empty bloom]

'Uh, you want to add 'Navy Seal Marines'? Okay, whatever. So about that human skeleton in the crypt...'

[orchid kettle]

Though its kinda pointless to try and pin the blame on any one individual

I just know both sides have presented accounts that appear consistent with each other

Sure Bungie may have warmed to it overtime

[hot zodiac]

Better than framing everyone with the same brush!

[orchid kettle]

(I can't help but notice how Halo 3 starts making way more references to Fall of Reach's prose and it was the game largely written without Staten)

[hot zodiac]

Nah. Remember "What if you miss?" That was a direct reference to Fall of Reach.

[orchid kettle]

Was it? I don't really remember that line in TFoR

[hot zodiac]

Yeah, Halsey and Chief basically have the same exact exchange.

[tribal trench]

hey while you are here, is Sanguine a canon set as far as you can tell?

[orchid kettle]

I still assume that what won them over was the idea of Chief being in a drop pod himself

and then in later games, it makes the player look a lot cooler when they have all-black commando marines posing with them

[empty bloom]

IIRC Sithvenator said earlier on Reddit that it's not after he asked for confirmation.

[hot zodiac]

I consider it incredibly unlikely the HEVs existed independently from ODSTs!

[empty bloom]

Now that I think about it, it's a little funny that ODSTs seem to act all 'me and the besty' around Chief despite initially being characterized as usually disliking Spartans.

[versed helm]

Might I ask What are the unwritten customs here that I must be careful of

[empty bloom]

No, that is not real, it is a meme.

[versed helm]

Well if that is the case may I chime in

[orchid kettle]

I'm not saying that the HEV came first, just that the fact that Chief could be in one and have a whole drop pod sequence is what I think landed the ODSTs a spot in the game

[orchid kettle]

I always really liked those artworks that featured Chief leading a squad of ODSTs

[versed helm]

Well Do I have The Permission To Speak Sirs

[orchid kettle]

It's like a positive feedback loop of cool, where Chief looks good with an entourage of previously unseen special marines, and the marines look cool by virtue of apparently being the guys Chief has on speed dial for when he needs backup

[hot zodiac]

Bungie's canon across the board was unusually consistent prior to Halo: Reach. They had followed TFoR's lore in everywhere from Halo 2 to their defacto lead writer's own novel Contact Harvest. They didn't seem to hate the book when making Halo 3, when they made direct reference to it constantly.

It wasn't until Halo: Reach where cracks began to show. Rather than believe that actually the studio collectively hated the book the entire time, it's more likely that they simply felt the need to rework major aspects to make a full game. Or that people who had shown care for such unusual consistently, like Staten, now being absent from major development causing it to slip.

And I think most notably, Halo: Reach doesn't actually erase as much as people say. Why does the game establish Halsey going to Castle Base? What purpose did that serve except to be consistent with the EU? Why include Halsey on Reach at all since Bungie hated letting Chief have a backstory? (There's even development notes from Marcus noting her training John with Mendez!)

Bungie hated having to work with thier big brother. The evidence doesn't suggest Bungie, as a collective, hated the lore they approved of.

[dense quest]

according to the official halo encyclopaedia, the skimmers and endless aren’t connected. so what are the skimmers?

[unique rune]

flying octopus monkeys

[obsidian thistle]

No

As much to my disappointment

And potentially the disappointment to many on Twitter it seems

The set is non-canon

🙃

[empty bloom]

Whew, good.

[orchid kettle]

My assumption has always been that it's not that Bungie hated the lore in and of itself, but that they disliked how the information was conveyed

through a book right before the game itself came out, I mean

Though apparently they did take issue with later stuff like the idea of Johnson being Flood immune, considering they went and made a comic that showed that Johnson made it out of 343 GS thanks to skill and luck

But thats First Strike stuff and not Fall of Reach

CH does some pretty heavy retconning of the Harvest incident as well, as the Covenant are not shown to have studied humanity long enough to learn English before they started attacking

Id mention the whole thing about Brutes being there before their supposed discovery in First Strike, but Nylund's idea of the Covenant species's largely going unseen for most of the war was rarely ever honored

for good reason, of course. Can't make a game purely on Grunts and Jackals.

[hot zodiac]

That is actually a great example. Yeah, they did dislike that (Staten's own words too). But they way they went about undoing it is important.

First Strike establishes that Halsey discovers Johnson has a disease called "Boren's Syndrome", which likely is what caused the Flood to somewhat avoid him, as per Johnson's own comment about guessing not to have "tasted very good".

The Halo Graphic Novel establishes that Johnson was actually, not being avoided at all. He had to fight tooth and nail to get out. His comment still exists, but now is more of a boast. It then also establishes that this "Boren's Syndrome" is actually an ONI cover-up of his ORION implants, which Halsey did not have the ability to know.

The Johnson immunity sub-plot in First Strike still exists, while making sure an actual Flood immunity doesn't.

As much as I love Nylund's work, a Flood immunity is a huge problem for the story. Bungie basically had to remove it, yet they still were delicate about doing so.

[orchid kettle]

Yeah, but there's always the argument that Chief's decision loses some weight if he's not actually making a decision between a possible flood cure and Johnson's life

But I guess the important thing is that it's real to John

[orchid kettle]

Oh and the other thing about this is that in Fall of Reach, Harvest just appears to mysteriously cut off all communication, and only one ship out of the several sent to investigate manages to limp back to UNSC space alive

but in CH, ya boi Johnson should have saved thousands of lives

so if that declaration of war still existed, it really shouldn't have been the first time the characters heard of there being aliens

[stoic hamlet]

I mean even Nylund dropped it.

It was basically only a thing in Fall of Reach.

[orchid kettle]

I can see why, but I personally wonder if that decision to blame for Spartan power creep

because in Fall of Reach-- well duh, of course Spartans rarely had any issue

they were fighting grunts and jackals for thirty years

but the second the higher ranks started showing up, James lost an arm and Linda gets deaded (temporarily)

[stoic hamlet]

I think they’ve they’ve explained things pretty well.

[orchid kettle]

Grace died second they met a Brute as well

to establish them as a threat, because this was their introduction

but now in the current context, these moments of Spartans being caught offguard by previously undiscovered aliens

seem more like them just being caught slacking

[hot zodiac]

The perspective TFoR was written around was that the Covenant did not engage in ground war. This obviously was not very tenable to future stories and was dropped definitively by GoO.

[orchid kettle]

Yeah I know

[hot zodiac]

It's not really a power creep thing but a narrative demand thing

[orchid kettle]

I just can't help but lament how we've gone from Elites being "as strong as the Master Chief!"

to them being ripped apart in close quarters by Spartan-IIIs in GoO

who don't even have Mjolnir

I dunno, we didn't have to make Elites as common as they ultimately became

[carmine sleet]

I don't mind not all Elites being as strong as Chief and that while yes, on average they are stronger than normal humans, enhanced humans like Spartans are able to rival them in strength and speed

Plus like, we then get to see Elites that are the exceptions, like Arby, Ripa, Xytan and Jega for example

[orchid kettle]

Itd kinda make sense to me that Elites are almost a purely naval caste

and thatd play into why Covenant ships are so hard to board and capture

Because even if you made it past all their plasma torpedos and shields

congrats, you're surrounded by Spartan-tier aliens

[steel stone]

When talking about Halo lore it does fall apart in many ways, many examples is how is there a bridge connecting the autumn in the last level when its nowhere to be seen on the ship, that was weird in Halo 1

[orchid kettle]

I dunno, when Vale can defeat four sword Elites in a cramped tunnel, with her bare hands

[steel stone]

Gameplay was always came first in the games from what I can tell well atleast for Halo 1, 2 and 3

[orchid kettle]

I feel like that's too powerful

[carmine sleet]

She's a Spartan who is nimble fighter against Elites that hadn't seen proper combat in a long time, I can buy her besting those Elites easily

[steel stone]

Are you talking about that scene where she effortless jumped into a ship with sword elites?

[orchid kettle]

There's a bit in Shadows of Reach as well where Chief mentions that the only reason why Blue Team cant take out a small army of Marauders and Wraith vehicles is because it'd take too long and they were on a tight schedule

[orchid kettle]

I mean, you can also make the argument that Vale is still a fairly inexperienced warrior, which is something she feels self conscious about when she's placed in command of odsts with decades of experience

and all Elites train from birth, and the weak I guess just die during that training

(if I wanted to be an especially bad party pooper, Id also probably point out that no matter how skilled you are, being vastly outnumbered is not as easy to deal with as movies show)

[empty bloom]

Warrior=/=Leader. Vale is well established at actually being a very capable close quarters combatant as reinforcement for her original diplomatic interest towards the Sangheili.

[orchid kettle]

(because in real life, your enemies aren't just going to stand still and take turns swinging widely at you)

Never mind the inherent insane, nearly insurmountable advantage of those people being armed while you're not

There's a reason why the only real legitimate self defense technique when faced with a man with a weapon is to simply run the other way

the dream of being so good at martial arts that you could dodge bullets and tear you way through an army of goons

is just a dream

[steel stone]

If its about that action intro, think non of it made sense to be honest.

[empty bloom]

The point is supposed to be that Spartans are already strong enough in MJOLNIR that they're not really 'unarmed' in the conventional sense anyways even in armor.

[empty bloom]

It made a ton if you're fine with Spartans being insanely powerful.

[carmine sleet]

Depends on the weapon, if someone is trying to shoot you with a sniper rifle in CQC, you're gonna have an advantage by grabbing the weapon and trying to pull it from them

[orchid kettle]

Thats what I mean

[empty bloom]

Alpha isn't fine with that (it detracts from his precious ODSTs)

[steel stone]

Spartans are super powerful butthe covies are just dumb in Halo 5, Elites are just dumb brute wannbes at that time

[orchid kettle]

vale has to be so monstrously above the Elites physically that it's the equivalent of four babies trying to take down Floyd Mayweather

Because there's just a hard limit to raw hand to hand skill

[empty bloom]

That fight didn't go poorly for the Covenant in that scene because they were stupid.

[steel stone]

Vale jumped over an Elites head and that same elite got dizzy and dropped his weapon that was just stupid even for an Elite

That was an Elite Zealot, scary dude tier, its just bad

[empty bloom]

That fight went poorly for the Covenant because they had four Spartans that came out of absolutely nowhere while they were already engaged with Promethean forces.

[orchid kettle]

No, it happens in Halo Outcasts

[empty bloom]

Nobody sane or reasonable expects the equivelant of a 2000 pound meth gorilla suddenly showing up in your drop bay on a planet that they aren't even supposed to be near.

[steel stone]

Thought we were talking about that Halo 5 action intro, sorry for the mixup

[dusk jetty]

It made sense both for the idea they had for Osiris’s portrayal and lore-wise.

[carmine sleet]

If I was in a dropship and someone who can move faster than the current fastest person alive jumped in, I'd struggle to track them. Just because an Elite is physically stronger than most humans, it doesn't mean that they have faster reaction times to the point they match Spartans

[orchid kettle]

They actually are supposed to have fast reaction times as well

[dusk jetty]

Jul isn’t even a good fighter either (doesn’t mean I like that he was killed but you know what I mean)

[empty bloom]

Like, of all the complaints, it's also AlphaBenson venting over the disconnect and power scaling changing as halo honed in on what it wanted Spartans to be and how the two don't necessarily reconcile well.

[orchid kettle]

In Mona Lisa, the corpsman lady is astounded by Henry's schpeed

and his lack of pants

[empty bloom]

I'm not saying that to diss on Alpha, btw, it does exist, I'm just calling a duck a duck here.

[carmine sleet]

This is part of why I wish Arbiter was the one that killed him, simply because he is a much more skilled fighter

[steel stone]

I really heated how they did the Zealot Elites in Juls scene it was awkward

[dusk jetty]

It makes sense for Jul himself to be awkward

But his guards themselves being awkward seems contradictory

[steel stone]

Insulting part is they clearly saw Locke run past one of their guys

I gotta show this

[dusk jetty]

Locke is also way faster than any elite could ever hope to be

That bent leg shape doesn’t help when your running

[carmine sleet]

Seeing someone run past you when someone else attacks you doesn't open you up to go after that first person

[empty bloom]

Which makes it weird when Kodiak is slower than the Halo 3 co-op elites.

[steel stone]

https://youtu.be/d3Vcu_5-vtQ?t=67

[empty bloom]

Actually, it does help.

[orchid kettle]

Ill have u kno sir that when Dutch pulled some similar bs in Helljumper (he snapped an Elite's neck with his giga thighs)

I was pretty confused then too

[unique rune]

I mean to an extent I kinda get it? Given most of his Sangheili forces are from Hesduros, which is like. Squidhead Alabama or something.

[empty bloom]

As I said, not dissing you, there's some funkiness afoot.

[dusk jetty]

You know, I retract this statement because dinosaurs exist

[empty bloom]

That was me just poking fun

[steel stone]

Elites in Halo 5 were just terrible, im really happy we have the actual Elites back in Halo Infinite

[empty bloom]

Remember that one australian paraplegic athelete who shot his wife

[carmine sleet]

Their training is just not as good there, they never got the funding from the Prophets for their training facilities because Truth was contemplating whether he needed another gold crown

[steel stone]

Its like the Promethean situation where almost nobody talks about them or misses them in Infinite

[orchid kettle]

I have the Executors now

[dusk jetty]

Oscar pitorua or something, what about him?

[orchid kettle]

i have no need of them

[empty bloom]

Well long story short the prosthetics he used (blade) actually is a genuine improvement over the running mechanics of the human form.

Digitigrade movement over plantigrade is actually something that improves speed while running.

[carmine sleet]

I miss them! I want them back!! Give me my freaky composed humans/Forerunners with their tiny little arms

[orchid kettle]

I find it funny that the encyclopedia mentions that some smart AIs live inside Knights now

because Knights are already supposed to be digitized humans

[steel stone]

The knight were bosses in Halo 5 which were cool but that was about it, they were such a nuisance in Halo 4 and 5

[orchid kettle]

and now there's a second one in there

[unique rune]

I do not talk about most of my opinions because I know 95% of the Halo community has stanky takes

[dusk jetty]

I see now. Now I actually support the ambush predators theory for T. rex considering that

As opposed to “eat whatever you find”

[carmine sleet]

Please tell me that includes the comical image of a T-Rex hiding behind a tree thinking they're hidden when they're clearly visible

[dusk jetty]

Oh I guarantee it

There’s only so much camouflage can do in nature

[orchid kettle]

no they bury their head underground like Ostriches

[carmine sleet]

Well birds are related to them so it could actually have happened

[dusk jetty]

I hate when people try and convince me that therapod dinosaurs were all like peacocks in regards to feathers

[orchid kettle]

why didn't the unsc make remote-controlled T-rexs to fight the covenant

are they stupid

[unique rune]

yes

[dusk jetty]

Extremely

Robot dinosaurs are the answer to everything

[river ridge]

The worst discovery ever made was that dinosaurs had feathers

[steel stone]

That sounds like a cool idea

[river ridge]

Mechagodzilla

[unique rune]

the UNSC should’ve recreated the T. rex and augmented those and armored them up instead of Spartans

[orchid kettle]

nah Anjanath from Monster Hunter is still pretty cool despite being a Chicken T-Rex

[dusk jetty]

Most dinosaurs had a light covering of feathers, only smaller ones like velociraptor actually had colors and plumage

Also, why would a brachiosaurus or such even need feathers

[empty bloom]

https://tenor.com/view/walking-with-beasts-bird-terror-bird-scary-squawk-gif-25402511

Wrong

Feathered dinosaurs peak

[dusk jetty]

Gastornis does not count

[empty bloom]

I know it isn't a dinosaur

But it has Trenchbird headfeathers

So I had to post it

[dusk jetty]

Budget Allosaurus

The way they hunted was cool though

[carmine sleet]

Nah, they needed lasers mounted on sharks to win

[dusk jetty]

Imagine running away from one of those things in ancient North America

Nowhere to hide

[orchid kettle]

imagine running away from one of those things in modern Australia

https://tenor.com/view/the-daytripper-texas-daytripper-emu-emu-attack-gif-13850525

[dusk jetty]

Emus are vicious vicious animals

I honestly don’t blame the aussies for losing

[river ridge]

The unsc should have made robot pterodactyls, maybe than they would have done well in space combat

[dusk jetty]

Giant kamikaze pterodactyls

[river ridge]

Didn’t each emu take several rounds to kill

[dusk jetty]

Yes, not to mention they are killer kickers

[river ridge]

And by several I mean more than it should’ve

[dusk jetty]

A kick from an emu is like spartan level strength

It’s astonishing

[orchid kettle]

sometimes things don't go down as quickly as the man holding the gun would like

[orchid kettle]

but can it flip a tank

[river ridge]

Master chief can flip a tank but can’t control pistol recoil

[dusk jetty]

❌-doubt

[unique rune]

how many emus would it take to flip an Elephant

[orchid kettle]

at least 5

maybe more

[unique rune]

five and a half, got it

[orchid kettle]

The M6 is just that powerful

really its a wonder any normal human can fire it at all without their hand exploding

[empty bloom]

Depends. What velocity are the emus being launched at?

[unique rune]

If the Forerunners had M6Ds they never would’ve needed the Halo rings

[orchid kettle]

an unspecified fraction of the speed of light

[empty bloom]

We all are moving a fraction of the speed of light though

[tropic forge]

Yes, sorry I should've clarified: You can't publish ONI or Halsey's version of the Carver findings---the "best case scenario, billions of people are going to die" one. So you don't even have that tool to push people towards giving colonies independence.

[autumn plaza]

Despite their seeming Godhood, Forerunner history only goes back 10 million years. They never even saw the Dinosaurs.

[radiant copper]

This put the image of a forerunner riding a Trex into my head

How did Jun escape reach? Do we have a proper cannon explanation for that?

[empty bloom]

No, he just kinda did. It's very loosely implied the fanon fistful of arrows comic is a possible way he survived, but it's by no means confirmed.

[radiant copper]

In that book they said he climbed the space elevator right?

[hot zodiac]

That's from an old tweet thread by Frankie. Of course he also said the likes of "if this were real".

[scarlet hinge]

they intentionally don't provide an answer; one of the Winter Update intels posits that even in-universe, Jun keeps that particular story close to the chest, with a lot of rumours surrounding his escape

he intentionally calls out A Fistful of Arrows as ridiculous, and laughs at another (which is possibly intended to refer to Frankie's comment)

at this point, they just use it as a thing to joke about and poke fun at rather than bother to need to show

[carmine sleet]

So it's basically just like Nick Fury's eye where there's plenty of rumours and the actual truth is most likely something that will never live up to the rumours

[versed helm]

Alright Question Numero One
What's UEG Stance On Cybernetics

[scarlet hinge]

there isn't a particular stance

[versed helm]

So what's the treatment for Amputees Other than Kat

[carmine sleet]

Robot arm

[scarlet hinge]

they have robot arms

that's about all of the information that's present

[carmine sleet]

Like, I assume you get to choose if you want one or not but like, I doubt there's some other thing they can give them instead

[versed helm]

Not Even Regeneratble Arms Since The UEG more On The Flesh Side

[scarlet hinge]

nothing like that has ever been depicted

the closest is flash-cloning replacement organs to restore Linda to combat readiness after she is declared clinically dead in First Strike

[carmine sleet]

Yeah, there's no weird "We hate cyborgs and want flesh people" stance by the UEG

[scarlet hinge]

there's never been any depiction of such in a more generalised context for regular civilians/military personnel

[carmine sleet]

And I would assume replacing a single organ is easier to do than trying to replace a limb

Like, yes, we can give people organ transplants right now but last I checked, you can't just be given someone else's arm

[scarlet hinge]

if you can, it's never been mentioned

[versed helm]

So There is no philosophical Stance On It

[scarlet hinge]

it's an area that the lore has very rarely delved into

[carmine sleet]

There isn't really anything along the lines of "Is it right for a human to have a robot arm" in Halo. Kinda not the focus of the series

Like, we're not going to see Chief lose an arm and suddenly see him viewing himself as an "unclean monster" for having a robot arm

[versed helm]

Yeah But It was Kinda Bugging me since Being A Metal Machine Is An Apotheosis For Being The strongest

[scarlet hinge]

wat

[carmine sleet]

What?

[versed helm]

What I meant is on most cases its Cybernetics that make us stronger and faster and useful for getting second chance in life after getting Amputeeted and sick

[scarlet hinge]

it's just not really something that's really all that relevant to the series

[carmine sleet]

So? I see no issue with that and like Bacon said, not relevant to the series

[scarlet hinge]

and when it does come up, it seems to be a nonissue, about on the level of taking some antibiotics today

[carmine sleet]

If anything, the closest we get to that is with the Elites, more specifically Jega with how there's rumours about how he ended up as the edgy cyborg Spartan Killer and even then, it doesn't delve into the philosophical nature of him being a cyborg

[versed helm]

Thanks for the info

Numero 2 Did The UEG Achieve A Post Scarcity Society Before

[orchid kettle]

Halo doesn't get too into the weeds of civilian life, but the vibe I get is that there's still Have's and Have-nots

probably not to any huge dystopian degree, but Im sure a lot more people are struggling in the post war era, especially the people choosing to strike it out on abandoned or glassed worlds

If anything, it's kinda weird how little the war seems to matter to the average civilian unless they're personally under siege

like, they have planets dedicated to growing food to feed the other worlds. Nobody's gonna notice that the price of bread just shot up because Harvest got glassed?

[versed helm]

What about pre war era

[orchid kettle]

pre covenant war, the struggle was mainly centered around the Insurrection, outer colonists feeling little to no kinship with Earth and wanting to break free of its influence

and for one reason or another, this discontent exploded into armed rebellion

with both sides killing millions

[dusk jetty]

That’s a very realistic part of halo tbh, people don’t care about stuff unless it’s happening to them at that moment

[orchid kettle]

yeah but if you notice food prices skyrocketing

that's 100% affecting you

or if your planet gets swarmed by a million refugees like we saw in Cole Protocol

[dusk jetty]

It was mentioned somewhere that once the covenant found earth, there was a huge amount of recruits for the marines

most People on earth decided not to fight until they thought it was too late

[versed helm]

Its Work Of ONI Seems Kinda Justified Since The Garrisoned Armies Were Lacking

[orchid kettle]

Mickey had to do a mandatory 2 years in the military, and Dutch was apparently drafted

Mickey lived on Luna, and Dutch on Mars

[dusk jetty]

I didn’t know that, actually

[orchid kettle]

Mickey's thing came from the odst interviews, and Dutch had a Waypoint video made about him that mentioned it

[dusk jetty]

You can also tell by the UNSC’s reaction to harvest that they did care about their colonies, contrary to whatever innies might say.

Although maybe they did show some preference, they weren’t willing to let the covenant just kick them around

So maybe the opposite is true of what I’m thinking, being a space fairing species actually helped enforce a sort of “That’s awful I’m going to help” attitude in humanity

[versed helm]

Okay Do You Think After The Interplanetary Wars Do You think The UEG acheived Post Scarcity Society

[dusk jetty]

Mm probably not.

[orchid kettle]

Well yeah, the sense I always got is that the outer colonies are a thing because they're full of resources, and that's why the UNSC wanted to retain control of them

[carmine sleet]

Aye, you don't spend five years trying to reclaim a planet if you don't care about it

[orchid kettle]

somebody mentioned earlier that in the Fleet Battles manual, its mentioned a lot of megacorps sponsored the founding of outer colonies

which again points towards the outer colonies existing for profit's sake, rather than people just wanting to make a city out in the middle of nowhere

[versed helm]

So They Just Sucked All The Resources in the Inner Colonies

[orchid kettle]

people go where the jobs are, after all

[dusk jetty]

The UEG may have had a long period of peace afterwords that allowed them to get all this stuff, but I’d imagine the interplanetary wars had a sort of post WW1 effect on it. Some colonies and earth may have boomed economically, but others probably struggled quite a bit which may have helped give rise to the insurrection

[dusk jetty]

Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it, you know

[versed helm]

Sorry but I think You made a mistake the Interplanetary Wars and inssurection is like 200 years

[dusk jetty]

It is, but what I said still isn’t untrue, sometimes anger takes time to foment

[versed helm]

I am sorry sir

[orchid kettle]

Both Nylund and Buckell in their respective Evolutions stories more or less come to the conclusion that the Insurrection was inevitable, as Earth could never hope to hold sway over human space forever. Not as people continued to live and raise families, further and further away from the motherland

[versed helm]

I am really sorry

[dusk jetty]

About what?

You haven’t made any mistakes from what I can tell

[orchid kettle]

Of course it never had to be violent, but the power structure with Earth on top and everybody else at the bottom was never going to last

[versed helm]

For making you angry

[dusk jetty]

I’m not angry lol

Do I come off that way?

[versed helm]

This

[dusk jetty]

Oh

I was talking about the actual universe not me

Like, anger as in “why did the ueg abandon us”

[versed helm]

Okay then

[versed helm]

Still it needs a driving force what do you think it made them make stable alliances of rebels to attack the UNSC

[willow dragon]

the innies or insurrectionists

[orchid kettle]

The origins of the Insurrection may be as simple as "some people got fed up when their calls for independence went unnoticed and chose violence"

or it might be the case that Far Isle, a human colony nuked to oblivion by the UNSC in order to put down an uprising, may have been the cause

Some innie groups sport names that may imply that they're socialists or communists as well

maybe that's only natural if some colonies really were founded and controlled by mega corporations

[versed helm]

Mega Corp and Commies It's Every Time That Thing

[safe mauve]

I was just watching the 343 guilty spark camera recording and imagine if flood transformations were present in halo ce how scarier would that cutscene be

[safe mauve]

Also why is there covenant blood on the walls on the elevator ride down

[carmine sleet]

Because some Covenant died there

There's not like a deep meaning to the blood on the walls

[safe mauve]

I meant did they throw themselves down cause they were scared of the flood bro it's like that moment where two jackals and two matines allies against the flood

[versed helm]

You mean the Animation Where They Help Eacother

[safe mauve]

No im talking about the visual storytelling

[empty bloom]

No. It's just blood.

[unique rune]

One of the Grunts spilled his Slurpee on the way down

[carmine sleet]

Are we sure they weren't drinking a Grimace Shake?

[unique rune]

That might explain the corpses tbh

[last anchor]

Not even xenos can handle that mess

[dusk jetty]

This gives me a video idea

“Combat evolved elite drinks grimace shake”

[dim thistle]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh

[safe mauve]

Halo turned into a horror really quick once they introduced the flood

[steel stone]

What creeped me out the most about Keyes terminal was I think seeing the Protogravemind actually moving around absorbing people

Maybe it was something else but i do remember seeing that, imagine seeing that thing move around...damn..

[safe mauve]

It makes u glad that the flood are fictional

[river ridge]

Carver findings did too didnt they

[river ridge]

reading their lore also made me glad they are fictional

[orchid kettle]

Carver Findings kinda did, more so the idea "okay, differences will emerge, and they will destroy the human race. You must kill them all NOW!"

which I don't even understand how that's supposed to be possible

I mentioned this before, but mutually assured destruction is a thing in the present day because a country can react to being targeted by a nuke and launch one of their own in retaliation. Because we all live on the same planet.

even if you assume everybody is shooting nova bombs at each other

it takes weeks or months to reach other planets in Halo, and they don't have FTL communication

you just aren't accidentally destroying all of humanity in one fell swoop

humanity in Halo are just way too isolated for that to happen

No, the threat is that the UEG can collapse when faced with too many interplanetary rivals

Humanity as a whole simply cannot be on the line here

[runic wharf]

Do Spartans age differently?

[stoic hamlet]

It’s hard to say.

Cryo would do most of the heavy lifting.

But S-IV’s can apparently have a “prime” of over a century.

TLDR: “yesn’t”.

[opal schooner]

depends on the spartan, and the answer is always yes, but in different ways

[stoic hamlet]

It is finished:

https://old.reddit.com/r/HaloStory/comments/17hp1l9/rakshasa_an_armour_core_deep_dive/?

[empty bloom]

Ankles mentioned, Trenchbird satisfied.

[unique rune]

pervert

[granite elbow]

🤓

[scarlet quiver]

Ankles tell a lot about a person.

[silver canopy]

so whuh happened to Attriox, is he dead ?

[meager pier]

No, he's still alive, as we see in the Infinite post-credits scene

[silver canopy]

YOOOO

LESSSSS GOOOO

[grand prairie]

Does anyone know if the Halo 2 Grunt Ultra Harness, the Bausatti-pattern raid harness (worn by reach elite ultras), and the Reach Zealot armor are restricted to Evocati and Zealots or can spec ops units get them?

[terse lava]

The Unggoy Ultra in Halo 2 are part of a special ops strike team, but I figure you mean their actual black-armored underlings. I wouldn't say its impossible, as armor in the Covenant can differ from fleet to fleet or Ministry to Ministry.

[river ridge]

how did atriox get off the ark in halo wars 2

also shouldnt he still be fighting the Spirit of Fire at the start of halo infinite

[unique rune]

Banished forces dug up another portal to the Ark on Reach during the events of Shadows of Reach
Atriox came back through there

[grand prairie]

Plus might the spec ops be able to "aquire" the extra armors even if they weren't supposed to have them since they were able to get assualt harnesses which were illegal in the empire.

[safe mauve]

Are flood spores flammable

[terse lava]

yes

@grand prairie if perhaps their Commander grants them that honor perhaps. Or some Unggoy black market guy. While the assault harnesses from use by the empire, that appears to be an edict against being mass produced. As you've said we've seen individuals manage to aquire it.

[safe mauve]

How long do covenant ships take to build

[terse lava]

That would depend on the size of the vessel. A half-construced supercarrier seen in Halo: Silent Storm was, if I recall mused to take a few more months to complete.

[safe mauve]

Also why doesnt humanity use engineers to build stuff for them

[terse lava]

They don't have many, just a few

Many were lost when High Charity fell to the flood, many others lost in various conflicts of the Great Schism. It is also said the San 'Shyuum took a large amount with them when fleeing the covenant holy city

[safe mauve]

Why did the san shyuum take them with them

[terse lava]

why wouldn't they?

They certainly were not going to leave them on High Charity

[safe mauve]

I meant like did they use them for stuff

[terse lava]

yes, these survivors ultimately fled to a forerunner shield world

[safe mauve]

Ohhhhh imagine if the covenant forms once again bro

[terse lava]

I mean, there are hundreds of various factions in the post-war era each claiming to be the Covenant

[safe mauve]

If they unitr humanity is effed

[terse lava]

They won't, too much in-fighting

Best you get was Jul's Covenant in halo 4&5, alongside the Banished in Halo Wars 2 and Infinite

[safe mauve]

Is cortana dead in infinite

[terse lava]

yes

[meager pier]

Yeah, for good this time

Would be annoying if they brought her back, AGAIN

[safe mauve]

Man i wish she remembered captain keyes n how he gave her to chief to maybe make her good again

[meager pier]

She did do a final act of good, sacrificing herself to hopefully stop the Banished, and stop the Weapon's deletion in order to let Chief have an AI companion

[empty bloom]

What did you think the Weapon was?

[meager pier]

Actual Cortana
Yeah, Weapon is Cortana 2.0, but not actually Cortana 1:1

There is a difference

[safe mauve]

Do u think the grave was the one who caused cortana to become evil

[stoic hamlet]

Why specifically Captain Keyes? Halsey was the one to give Cortana to John (technically her and several other doctors)

[safe mauve]

Idk bro but like cpt keyes was dear to her

[stoic hamlet]

No more so than anyone else really. There might have been some subdued, subconscious aspect of Halsey’s relationship but there’s no evidence for this.

[meager pier]

Cause he's Cpt Keyes, cmon bruh

[safe mauve]

I didnt say there was evidence all i saod was that maybe her remembering everyone that died like cpt keyes n johnson would have moved something in her

[steel stone]

Can I ask something why are the Reach Zealots red instead their gold colour? Reach really screwed up alot of the Elite ranks but was there ever a reason for that?

[stoic hamlet]

They were a specific Zealot sect; the Devoted Sentries:

https://www.halopedia.org/Devoted_Sentries

[steel stone]

That sounds cool as hell, thanks for sharing

Im curious what about Elite Officers the orange Elites? they are like a stand in for the Elite majors from 1,2,3 I guess they are a sub group to them.

Interesting thing to note Reach Zealots look a bit like the honor guards and Reach Ultras look like Councilors to a degree, wonder if that was intentional

[silver canopy]

Is it possible to create a grunt super soldier ?

Lik a Spartan

But Grunt

[terse sage]

I mean Grunt Goblins are a thing

[scarlet quiver]

Correct me if needed, but the images seem to show that grunts are still wearing breathing apparatuses while in the Pnap- pattern Battlesuit.
Which i find interesting.

[terse sage]

It might be a redundancy in case the shield around the grunt is broken

[silver canopy]

I mean Spartan operating a mantis is also a thing

Im asking for peak Grunt performance

[scarlet quiver]

A goblin in campaign would be nice, as I would love to see the Grunt Birthday Party effect on it.

[safe mauve]

Unpopular opinion halo 2 is better than 3

[river ridge]

i thought it was rampancy

[safe mauve]

Yeah and that too

[grand prairie]

Does anyone know why the grunts under command of elites that went into spec ops units got unique armor/paint but the jackals, hunters, and brutes were forced to leave or did not get a new paint scheme/armor?

[terse sage]

There are spec ops brutes, they're called Bloodstars

[dusk jetty]

Probably a combination of typical sanghelli pride and what the actual mission specs required

[meager pier]

With Jega likely still alive, how do you hope they handle him in the next game?

[empty bloom]

Dying in a cutscene to Locke at the start of the game

[meager pier]

Jega becomes the Kenny of Halo, keeps “dying” and coming back in each game, each time more robotic 🤣

[dusk jetty]

Somehow Jega returned

In all honesty I hope they just do the opposite of the arbiter with him

Have him delve deeper and deeper into anger and loath

[river ridge]

and eventually the arbiter fights him

[pallid knoll]

at least it’d happen on-screen

[grand prairie]

In the awakening the nightmare how were the banished not infected by the flood supercell that was in the air and the flood goo that got on their armors, skin, and weapons?

[tardy sigil]

In lore what happens to the arbiter after halo 3

[empty bloom]

https://www.halopedia.org/Thel_'Vadam#Cessation_of_war In short, a lot.

[empty bloom]

Halo Wars 2 Awakening the Nightmare is exceptionally odd in its portrayal of the flood versus what we know of the flood. We do not know traditional Banished CBRN procedures, if any, so presumably they might just lucky and able to shrug off the floodification with medicine and immune system boons./

[grand prairie]

Hmm. In one of the cutscenes there was a brute that took off his helemt and had flood blood/goo all over his face and was fine (at least for the rest of the cutsence) plus none of them were wearing masks to deal with spores. Could the non human species be immune to breathing in spores/getting infected through skin? I think the only time that something is infected to a spore (that we know about directly) is a marine in halo 3? I think most of the combat forms (at least all the ones I have seen) were infected through and infection form with the red tentrils.

[terse sage]

Do we hear from Pavium and Voridus again after Awakening the Nightmare?

[stoic hamlet]

They appear in Divine Wind.

[terse sage]

Ok then my theory is henceforth invalid

I always thought Atriox just executes them for disobeying his orders afterwards

[lone plover]

hey why dont UNSC uses lithium slug for mac gun instead of tungsten

my idea is that since the acceleration is so dam fast

lithium when under such condition will go fission reaction

basically...a kinetic nuclear cannon

or better...some way some form to make solid tritium and deuterium (either in chemical form else)

and shoot at a covenent ship to make it go fussion

thus not only dealing kinetic but also thermal nuclear damage

helll since you only need speed to trigger the fission or fussion using this method you can make a lighter slug that take less energy to accelerate to same speed and thus faster charge time

[unique rune]

Making the slug explode on impact blunts its effect
You'd just be making the MAC worse

[river ridge]

Is it touched on what happened to lord hood after halo 3, is he safe, is he alright

[dense falcon]

He is currently safe in a remote world with Admiral Serin Osman and a bunch of other important ONI AIs. He has developed a taste for drinking.

[lone plover]

imagine 1000 ton of fissile material not only hit you with the force of a tsar bomba but also hitting you with another force of tsar bomba

[unique rune]

That’s… not how that works

[lone plover]

lithium fission

it have been done in real life

and that done with smashing proton towards lithium at extreme speed

but no one want to do it because you get less energy then you input

but since mac cannon shooting these slug at fraction of speed of light it shouldnt be a issues

[unique rune]

Magnetic accelerator cannons inflict damage by ripping holes through targets purely through kinetic energy

If the projectile explodes on impact then there’s nothing to punch through the target

[lone plover]

ship based get stoped by shield no?

[unique rune]

The explosion force might do some damage but it’s dispersed across a wider area
Which might work to some extent in-atmosphere but will limited in space and utterly useless against shielded targets

[lone plover]

the kinetic energy is still there tho

so you practically hit the ship twice

[unique rune]

That’s… not how that works

If anything this idea makes even less sense than sticking a nuke inside a tungsten slug

If the projectile begins undergoing fission reactions as you launch it, the thing is essentially destroying itself on its way to the target
So it’s losing mass and therefore kinetic energy
And there’s less material for the explosive

Congratulations
You’ve invented a worse MAC projectile

[meager pier]

Installation00’s newest vid, however it’s nearly 30 mins long https://youtu.be/TOC7f5yjNBs?si=jKoIIfDG0X6pw2Za

He brings up the idea of having the cutscene of Reach play again, but extended, this time seeing more things play out, with the Endless surviving, and their masters, the Precursors returning, Halo ends, and maybe something new coke coke from the this
I think I’d prefer that scene to play again, but it’s stays peaceful and happy, and the species is united, a new era for the galaxy beginning
The End

[lone plover]

i just thought of it abit...

since you not pushing the projectile using gun powder

and you are accelerating the whole projectile all together

it self fissioning should be a issue

not only that but when you account of the cross section(barn){and yes im aware that lithium have very big cross section) and the chance of this happening on a small scale it even more so of a not a issue (it more akin to burning a fuse at slow rate then a instantaneous combustion)

also electron repel each other

but when the projectile hit the target then suddently there is tons after tons of lithium all colliding together at extreme speed

making the chances of fission much higher

[unique rune]

I feel like you’re also forgetting that even if this ridiculous idea did work, tungsten is nearly 40 times denser than lithium. Iron is almost 15 times denser. You’d need an absolutely enormous slug to come close to matching the effect of a ferric-tungsten projectile. Or if you used one of the same size, you’re looking at somewhere around a ~95% decrease in kinetic energy.

You’ve crippled the MAC’s primary source of destructive power in favor of an explosion that is of limited effect in space and could be more practically achieved with a normal nuclear device.

Lithium is also much softer than either iron or tungsten, so it’s going to deform more on impact, further reducing what little kinetic power such a slug would have

[tardy sigil]

Ah thank you! So after the civil war with other arbiter peoples sangheelies they don’t explain where he goes he’s just their leader for the time being

And he is still alive too

In Halo 6, master chief should team up with Arbiter and the other Arbiter dudes and kill all the insurrectioners once and for all

[last anchor]

Technically he was already a purveoyr of fine alcohol, now hes just got no one he has to share it with so he can have the whole thing to himself.

[empty bloom]

I feel like Serin makes a mean moscow mule, considering the whole ginger thing.

[last anchor]

My thoughts exactly

[scarlet quiver]

Whoh.
Hood, Osman, alcohol...
Sounds like a fun time.

Make a drink called Stranded on a Planet.

[empty bloom]

It's just the entire bottle of bourbon.

No ice, no garnish, no flavor, just several dozen shots back to back.

(Shot glass optional)

[stoic hamlet]

“They’re sharing a drink they call loneliness, but it’s better than drinking alone…”

[river ridge]

how many of the inner colonies are gone, i know reach was one and most of the outer colonies were gone but what about the inner colonies

[unique rune]

Unknown

The precise numbers for Inner and Outer Colonies have never been specified either and I doubt they ever will be since 343 prefers to avoid putting things out like that that could act like potential limitations for future story material

[river ridge]

thats fair enough

[orchid kettle]

Probably more than Outer colonies, at least relatively speaking

There's this idea that was repeated often in the older books that the Outer Colonies were just gone by 2531

or whenever Cole Protocol was

[river ridge]

even harvest?

like didnt they retake it is what i mean

[orchid kettle]

Harvest is especially pretty dead

its just in the post war era, we see people resettling glassed worlds

[river ridge]

fair enough

[unique rune]

They retook it but by that point the planet was pretty much strategically worthless

[orchid kettle]

just because they got nowhere else to go

But yeah, there's this reoccurring statement that the Outer Colonies were just gone after a certain point

and I think combined with the idea that the Covenant just stumbled upon Earth

(I think Fall of Reach mentions as well that there were a bunch of other colonies the Covenant passed up to get to Reach)

means that there's probably a decent amount of Inner Colonies left intact

[river ridge]

alright than

[hot zodiac]

Well, Truth knew about Earth being humanity's homeworld, but didn't inform Regret.

[safe mauve]

Does the flood lose a hosts experience if the host is killed or does it not matter if hes dead or alive

[empty bloom]

They do not lose information already gathered, or intelligences already consumed.They can fail to get the mind in the first place.

[last anchor]

Thats the dangerous bit. Anything they take they have forever

[unique rune]

Can the Flood take my exams for me

[safe mauve]

Cuz when i read that a spartan got infected n spartans basically know everything about the unsc the unsc are screwed at this point

[last anchor]

SEe that would be an issue...if they hadn't eaten multiple squads of Marines on Alpha Halo, Delta Halo, and Earth.

Alongside Keyes, the entire crew of the Mona Lisa (and most of the troops sent to investigate it)

Spartans dont know much more than they did. Useful intel to the Flood is different than useful intel to an enemy like the Covenant.

Also, not screwed; merely inconvineinced.

The Flood is only a serious threat once it reaches the coordinated stage, and at all times in its existance, it is succeptable to the oldest of tactics;
KILL IT WITH FIRE

[meager pier]

Why not just give a Flood spore to your teacher? Go full Oppenheimer 😝

[uneven maple]

isnt the feral stage also a pretty big threat? It may be disorganised but the flood would still be a massive threat to life... also, correct me if I'm wrong but even the combat forms can spread the infection by biting right?

[dusk jetty]

If you ignore it or don’t put full effort into destroying it, yes. Any outbreak should be put down asap. But the feral stage is fairly harmless if you know what your doing, like the covenant did,

[distant socket]

about combat form spreading infection, not sure about this

i mean, in The Mona Lisa, some UNSC soldier gets a tiny flood chunk attached to her arm, after a slash from a combat form.

and turns into a combat form

But whether this is just a special case or can rlly happen is debatable

[dusk jetty]

Any flood biomass is a vector for infection really as long as it has supercells somewhere in it

Now whether it actually needs to be inhaled or enter the bloodstream or it can be absorbed I’m not sure

But I’d imagine sniffing a combat form would not be a good idea

[silver canopy]

so why no fusion packs on rakshasa, and how good at protecting bpdy is this layer of clothing on the back?

[dusk jetty]

Probably not good

It’s basically exposed lol

[silver canopy]

I know but idk, nano fibre booletproff shmancy materials or smth

[dusk jetty]

Which is why its silly to have flood control cosmetics on that core if you don’t have armor for the back

Because infection forms might land, oh I don’t know, somewhere you can’t reach them

[dusk jetty]

None that we know of, unless the gel layer is especially strong on the back

[silver canopy]

Elites seem to be fine chilling in flood-infected areas without any respiratory protection, brutes too. I guess there is a critical point of flood cells for each organism where your body can no longer neutralise them

[dusk jetty]

I didn’t consider that, but that certainly is possible. Elites and brutes probably have stronger immune systems as well. I’d imagine if breathe in one or two cells you might be fine but prolonged exposure is a no no.

Should wear cbrn attachments with the flood anyways

[silver canopy]

it is really bulky, and if u apply different coatings you can see it using a different material than just undersuit. So smth is going on with it, but I have no idea what exactly

[dusk jetty]

I know what you mean don’t worry

The image perms were actually enabled for a little bit in the past, but it was abused in like 10 seconds

[fair hazel]

It probably does have a small one

[last anchor]

The actual reactor on MJLONIR has gotten so small most of the rear section is plating and shield distribution equipment.
The actual power supply is internal.

Probably small enough to fit somewhere on Rakshasa.
Though in truth, we dont even know if its fully powered or not, do we?

[orchid kettle]

I wish Rak was confirmed to just be a really low tech, basic BDU that's hardly any different than anything you'd see on a marine or odst

but I think it was stated to be Mjolnir unfortunately

[last anchor]

Its a long duration MJLONIR subvariant I believe.

Stripped down to the bare bones.

That said, the lore mentions non augmented humans wearing it cause its part of Beta-5 right? One sec

[orchid kettle]

they've been teasing the idea of normal humans wearing mjolnir for a while I feel like

[last anchor]

Yeah, it was intended for Delta-6 operatives.

[orchid kettle]

with that weird mention of Delta-Six operators wanting GEN2 Air Assault

[last anchor]

So that means it has to be at least semi-powered, you cant wear fully powered armor without augmentations still.

[orchid kettle]

even when they're not augmented

[last anchor]

The helmet is modular

Its the techsuit and liquid crystal thats the issue

[orchid kettle]

nah its the lore for the body

[last anchor]

The external plates are just patterns.

[orchid kettle]

in halo 5

[last anchor]

A helmet is a helmet.

You can put the helmet on a non-powered suit presumably

[orchid kettle]

Sure, but like I said, the text blurb about D6 wanting it is tied to the body

while the helmet gets a weird blurb about how fireteam leaders prefer it because it has long range comms

which is also weird for other reasons

[orchid kettle]

I guess this just begs the question-- what is being stripped out of MJOLNIR to make Rak a thing?

the only thing that makes sense to me is the absence of shields, since in Fall of Reach, Chief noted a larger power pack on Mark V in comparison to IV, presumably because the reactor needed to also provide power to shielding

[empty bloom]

*Fortunately

I like the idea of someone just throwing things over a techsuit and calling it stealth.

It's very... Crysis.

[empty bloom]

Likely absolutely nothing major beyond maybe some cooling systems and musculature. One of the big tech advancements of GEN2 MJOLNIR is that most important components, including the power plant, were moved into the bodysuit layer.

It'd be goofy if they didn't utilize that change to its full potential to make new classes of MJOLNIR like Rakshasa that don't need a huge power plant to do their jobs.

[timber zephyr]

Been forwarded from #halo-discussion. Pretty sure the answer's yes but are the Legends shorts canon?

[empty bloom]

All except Odd One Out.

Hence the name Odd One Out.

[timber zephyr]

Nice!

Wait. If that's the case, how come there's never been an instance of being able to dual-wield Plasma Blades like one of the previous Arbiters?

[orchid kettle]

It just makes me wonder what the point even is from a world building perspective if it doesn't function all that differently.

[empty bloom]

I'm sure it'd function differently if you got shot a lot.

[orchid kettle]

Like, sure, you don't expect Mark VI Scout to be worlds apart from Mark VI Recon

[empty bloom]

I do.

I absolutely expect Mark VI Scout and Mark VI Recon to function differently. I expect GEN2 Scout and GEN2 Recon to be even more different.

[orchid kettle]

but with how drastic the difference is on a visual level, I'd hope more would be different.

[empty bloom]

Okay, make Halo a loadout based shooter then. You want a difference, you need a medium to showcase it.

[orchid kettle]

I'm talking more so from a narrative point of a view

what troubles does a Rak spud face that a Mark VII doesn't, and vice versa

[empty bloom]

You can explain that via visual storytelling.

[orchid kettle]

like as is-- it just sounds like Rak is GEN2

[empty bloom]

Not even slightly.

That's... An incredibly baffling conclusion.

[orchid kettle]

Lighter, seemingly easier to suit up in and out, and armor plates keep falling off

[empty bloom]

I really, really hate the Encylopedias again.

[orchid kettle]

just with a lot more duct tape and dumpster diving

[empty bloom]

Because of them, people think all of GEN2 is this lightweight, easily damaged scrap metal. Like what you just said.

When we know from how we've seen the armor work, it clearly isn't. From the descriptions outside of the Encylopedia, it clearly isn't.

[orchid kettle]

I mean, that's all we kinda heard Buck say about it in New Blood

[empty bloom]

He said that about the paint.

[orchid kettle]

About how the paint keeps chipping and it falls to pieces while he and Mickey duke it out

[empty bloom]

And Buck's even worse than the Encylopedia about it. Don't even get me started on that bull about "Titans Demigods Gods"

Paint isn't armor.

[orchid kettle]

why it isnt that frail in Halo 5, I dunno

considering it also has two Spartans fighting

[empty bloom]

Oh, I can answer that easily.

Why the hell would you.

No, seriously, why the hell would you want to make some poor guy animate a bunch of paint peeling off in a fight? God, at least slit his throat first.

It'd be more humane.

[orchid kettle]

Except Im not talking about paint

in Bad Blood, Mickey and Buck's armor falls to pieces as they fight and tumble down a hill

[empty bloom]

Sounds stupid and I'm going to choose to ignore it.

[orchid kettle]

Well I mean, at some point, if you're ignoring every piece of info we have about GEN2

[empty bloom]

Let me get to my damn point between Rakshasa and GEN2 please.

[empty bloom]

GEN2 still requires a full armillary gantry to put on, as we see in Halo 4. It also hardlocks the armor plating on like old-school GEN1, but the actual core techsuit is designed to be heavily variable due to its core component integration, which also allows for each suit of GEN2 to have a wildly different performance rating compared to competing models in the GEN2 line, which is a huge reason why things like Blood and the Encylopedias irk me-they both ignore established descriptions and rational design in favor of flanderization of the core armor system.

Rakshasa's design philosophy is indeed 'dumpster diver', and likely inspired by GEN2 due to the aformentioned core component integration, but it functions towards a very specific design goal that gets shoehorned into more specific roles by the user. Rakshasa's lighter, but the core suit and core design philosophy is alluding to extreme drawbacks made to up-front protection in order to do so. None of the armor plating, not even the boot plating, is actually physically tethered to the MJOLNIR techsuit itself. It's all mounted and strapped to the bodyglove that goes over the entire suit.

GEN2 has a dizzying assortment of configuration patterns, from the ultra-durable Dynast to the ultra-ruggedized Maverick to the ultra-light Stinger, to the more exotic design philosophy of suits like Achilles and Prefect. It is extremely disingenuous, as Halo has done unfortunately thus far, to paint the entire armor series under one singular brush.

Rakshasa is not nearly as variable, and likely less defensive owing to the type of protection it visually has. None of its armor plating short of the helmet is hard mounted or thick. It's added on top of a bodyglove-on-a-bodyglove that itself is likely more tailored for the suit than anything else, and likely provides minimal defenses of its own given its composition. It's a suit designed for cover and concealment of profile and visage above all else, that has token defenses added on top of it, and is extremely limited in its operational scope until someone forces it out of its comfort zone with heavy up-armor plates, and even then those are going to be limited by comparison due to lacking any visible hard mounting system.

Hell, even Rakshasa's shoulders are pointedly utilized more for mounting ancillary tactical gear, or trophies, than actual armor plating. The helmets are typically built around a soft 'core' layer. The kneepads are strapped to the body with bands of leather and nylon, the forearms are lashed to the spartan's wrists. The only visibly hard mounted pieces of equipment on the whole of Rakshasa are the baseplates for the shoulder gear and the outer covering of the gloves.

To say it's like GEN2 is a gross oversimplification of the variance GEN2 purportedly should have due to in-game visuals, descriptions, and depictions, despite book statements to the contrary, and a gross misclassification of the role and design philosophy of Rakshasa.

That sounds way more aggressive than I meant for it to, sorry.

[orchid kettle]

I understand Rak is probably even less durable than standard GEN2 (which, for the record, lets say is Recruit or my beloved Warrior)

[empty bloom]

Based Warrior enjoyer

[orchid kettle]

I just want that idea to go further, and have other systems be affected in some way

Because like, if the shields can still tank a couple swings from Atriox's chainbreaker mace or a monitor blast point blank

[empty bloom]

Actually, important clarification here, were the plates falling off due to the fall or the other's punches?

[orchid kettle]

I dunno if the lighter armor means as much as it could

[orchid kettle]

Probably a bit of both

[empty bloom]

If it's the fall, I'm calling bull, if it's the punches, that checks out.

[orchid kettle]

They've been confirmed to be wearing HELLJUMPER as well

which is weird, because Helljumper looks decently sturdy

[empty bloom]

What's weird is that Helljumper is actually a heavier suit physically than Centurion last I checked.

[orchid kettle]

maybe they had the cheaper looking ODST from Halo 4, and then got Helljumper after

[empty bloom]

... You know, actually

One sec

[orchid kettle]

I just know when asked about, Forbeck just said "I dunno, they had one of the ODST variants"

[empty bloom]

Looks like a mix.

[orchid kettle]

is Romeo a traced over Locke render

[empty bloom]

Might be.

Lmao

I mean I hate going by art but then

Halo's art is funky

[empty bloom]

Hmn. Seems Buck, Romeo, and Mickey were all using it during Op Coalpepper, so apparently yes.

[empty bloom]

It is btw

[orchid kettle]

B O I

[empty bloom]

Lmao

[grand prairie]

lol

[empty bloom]

I mean whatevs, it's still not as bad Halo Wars 2 concept art

[orchid kettle]

artists had a real tough time drawing MJOLNIR

Ive noticed a ton of traces in the comics

Collateral Damage might have looked a lil weird, but at least nothing looked traced because of the commitment to the stylized art

[fair hazel]

I do wish 343 would produce a large internal image library maybe some stuff animated to help artists out in official projects

[scarlet quiver]

I thought that would be standard.

[obsidian thistle]

One probably exists! 🙂

[versed helm]

Yo that artwork is sick I’m stealing that

What do you guys rate my profile pic

[obsidian thistle]

I rate nothing! As long as ya enjoy Halo and follow the rules! We will get along perfect! And Seeing as yer in this chat (the lore one) I think we will get along pretty well!

[pallid knoll]

will Spartan 1337 ever return to Halo?

[safe mauve]

Guys is it said how many offsprings can grunts have at a time

[pallid knoll]

a lot

[safe mauve]

In numbers?

[pallid knoll]

I’m pretty sure it’s in the thousands

[safe mauve]

Dayummmm

[safe mauve]

A single grunt? Or grunts as a species

[river ridge]

he isnt even technically canon unfortunately

[icy yoke]

why cant I send images

[dusk jetty]

#1076327824924872755 embed images here

[dusk jetty]

Gameplay firstly and practicality second. An energy sword doesn’t have a hilt, it has a base that you grip with a fist. So you’re punching someone with the sword more than actually wielding it then say, a lightsaber. You could dual wield an energy sword, heck it might even be more practical then double wielding a lightsaber (sorry kestis, I still love dual wield stance.) but probably sangheilli pride and doctrine dictate swordsmanship. Same reason you don’t just de-activate a lightsaber then re-activate in your opponents brains.

You could dual wield but it would be frowned upon

Not that the arbiter cared much since his name was already tarnished

How would one actually learn swordsmanship for an energy sword

The entire style is different then an actual sword

[knotty marten]

I find that Energy Swordsmanship is an art of slashing mixed with letting gravity help you out. Think of how Ripa Moramee uses them. You also can include stabbing into the regimen, too.

[normal bison]

Quick check

I know operation red flag would have failed massively in stopping the war but what were the odds they actually captured a covenant high leader?

[tropic forge]

Maybe middling at best? We've seen Spartans do everything they would need to do for a successful RED FLAG but never quite in the order or at the scale of High Charity.

[dusty ferry]

wasn't there a brand new created exclusive ship in outcasts?

[empty bloom]

A major prophet would be a significant problem to capture, but something lower in status would absolutely be plausible.

[last anchor]

Depending on what ship they hit they could have taken someone like the Prophet of Stewardship fairly easy.
Weither or not that would have resulted in the war ending, I doubt.
...hey, isnt there a San'shyuum in Midnight Facility?

[empty bloom]

IIRC that one was captured from a Covenant yacht equivalent by Fireteam Apollo well after High Charity fell.

[last anchor]

Ah, fair.

[boreal bane]

https://youtu.be/9H9Pj2YhpyQ?feature=shared

[last anchor]

I assume we're all digesting this yes?

Mildly annoyed it takes place in 2556...

But I suppose having it happen simultaniously to Infinite make things problomatic

[empty bloom]

I completely expected it to take place well before Infinite because it's the only time it'd make sense.

[last anchor]

Fair enough.

Interesting that the UNSC just...hands out paintings to space ships bearing their names.
Does that mean the UNSC Thermopoly has a painting of it?

And does the UNSC Seattle have a Space Needle model somewhere

[orchid kettle]

I like hearing about cool scifi jobs in the halo universe

[empty bloom]

That actually makes a lot of sense.

[last anchor]

I think it was mentioned previously. I know it was in a fanfic at some point.
Obviously, Cole's flagship has images and paintings and stuff. Modern day warships do. Makes sense.

Fireteam Leviathan; bad, BAD name for a unit sent to fight the Flood, not going to lie.

[empty bloom]

It's the kind of irony I'd expect tbh

[last anchor]

Same.
In truth I am...mildly dissapointed.
I know its a chronicle, they're supposed to be shorter. But, like;
"And then he was just overcome by the Flood"

...okay.
How.
Did t hey throw the entire compliment of the mining facility at him? Did they fuse the crew of a laser rig into some kind of apocolyptically horrid walking meat excavator and bash him around that way?
Did they just bury him in sixty thousand infectors like at the start of Awakening the Nightmare?

I know the HOW doesnt exactly matter, the result is what does...but I would have liked a bit more understanding simply so we have one more bit of data on the overall capabilities of the Flood and so I can use it for 40k nerd fights to describe how the Parasite would consume an Astartes

[empty bloom]

Or how it'd consume a Spartan, lmao

[last anchor]

I guess it would take the meat? FSC does work on basically any biomass its given.
Spartans still have human muscles, just augmented. Maybe the Flood works around the bones and stuff?
Though that undoes the "the target needs calcium for infection" thing from the Bungie days...

Nice to see Hellbringers again though.

[empty bloom]

I meant more 'how did it get that bad when even the miner thought they were winning'

I'd love another short story explaining the Spartan's perspective. I was kinda hoping we'd know what happened to Rusalka.

[last anchor]

And how the new Transgressor ties into it.
Its literally Jorge, does that mean its non canon or...

I guess that explains why Rusalka's in MK V(B) though. If this is 2556 they must have been scraping the barrel bottom.
(How many times can the UNSC loose its home fleet? Who knows!)

[stoic hamlet]

My thoughts as well.

It’s weird, the meat of the story is what happens before the flood actually arrives k then it just feels kind of…idk.

[empty bloom]

It sounds like Julien went through his own Isaac Clarke journey offscreen.

[ashen cape]

BECOME

[empty bloom]

This might also explain why they made even more dedicated flood containment units.

[ashen cape]

Well that took on a new meaning

shivers

[empty bloom]

What's weird to me is, who is the perspective of the last guy? That Spartan died. We know the Spartan died. So who had the mental fortitude to scream the last part?

[last anchor]

Its been that way among Flood fans for a while.
The idea of the Flood having an internal monologe was actually floated as far back as the The Flood reprint, in one of the apendix bits.

[empty bloom]

Another Spartan without gallows?

[obsidian thistle]

Do note this didn't ||kill off the Infected Leviathan|| so they could still be around circa 2559/60

[stoic hamlet]

Probably one of the other Spartans.

[last anchor]

Wait what?
Oh.
OHHHH.
Okay, yeah, huh.

[ashen cape]

Didn't need to hear that.

[empty bloom]

Wait, what? How the hell did they not die, they got Shiva'd.

[last anchor]

Condor.

[stoic hamlet]

They’d probably still be SHIVA’d, though,

I doubt they managed to get it started and airborne before the nuke hit them.

technically they could have, obviously

[last anchor]

If the blast didn't the EMP might have

[ashen cape]

There's a rule in fiction.

[stoic hamlet]

But logically I’mma go with no.

[last anchor]

I think thats the take away, "did they get away"?
Maybe.
Leaves it open for later.

[ashen cape]

If you didn't SEE them die, there's a chance they're not dead.

[last anchor]

"No body no proof"

[empty bloom]

The implication at the end makes it sound like the screaming of 'WONT LET YOU" won.

[last anchor]

CIP: Jun in Reach.

[stoic hamlet]

Oh aye, I know the rule. I’m just saying.

[ashen cape]

Or anyone in the recent Call of Duty MW entries.

stares at Graves

[last anchor]

Good point.

[ashen cape]

Then again, this is the flood.

Single spore and all that.

[obsidian thistle]

Some Condor models have small slipspace drives.

Soo like

[ashen cape]

Again, I did not need to know this considering what I just heard/read

:>

Plenty of S-IVs

Lots of biomass.

Especially since the FSC now knows what to do with it.

And how to get in.

[empty bloom]

But the ships in question were on their way back to the Saturn, none of them were stated as running.

[last anchor]

It might be an IMC one

Small out of the way planetoid like that would probably need some kind of small slipspace runabout.
Obviously, the Condor we first see in Nightfalls attached to a militia unit on some random planet so.

Sedra, right?

And, also apparently companies like Liang-Dortmund can aquire military grade ordinance easily enough looking at you Corp Gauss Warthog

[empty bloom]

I'm calling bogus on one getting away tbh.

Unless one got away like, right when this all started.

[orchid kettle]

who wins in a fight

one infected Spartan, or one Executor

[empty bloom]

I'd assume an Executor is roughly equal to one Spartan.

Unsure how much 'better' the flood could really make a Spartan, though, because it still sounds like the suit is what would be doing the heavy lifting here.

[ashen cape]

AH YES, A SCORPION, FOR A MINING COMPANY.

[empty bloom]

I mean, the rationale actually makes a lot of sense. Post-war human space is not a nice place, and if you got erased it'd be a disgrace, so here's a tank to save your face.

[last anchor]

Also, the Banished exist.

[orchid kettle]

also commentary on mega corporations

[last anchor]

On the good side it means I can give my original planet a RUINOUSLY LARGE military industrial complex and military as a result, so thats nice.
One mega corp there just buys everything and then pays people to make it worse

Worse as in; more war crimy, not tactically less good I should say

But yeah, we know IMC has a bunch of stuff cause they ran ARC in Halo 5

[orchid kettle]

what is the name of your original planet

[ashen cape]

True enough. It's the reasoning behind why my space salvage ship in Star Citizen has gatling lasers.

[empty bloom]

Honestly, I'm dying on the hill of it all leaning 'no' to the unknown poor SOB right now unless that random miner or whomever on the Condor somehow knew the locations of some Covvie planets or the infection got stopped somewhere else.

Wouldn't be the first time the flood heavily overestimated its decision making to try for a big prize.

[last anchor]

Cascadia.
Think the mirror darkly to Venezia and Gao; whereas they're independant and do their own thing, Cascadia could not be in the pocket of the UNSC any HARDEr.

[last anchor]

Its not very smart without a Gravemind

[empty bloom]

This man really making a whole world named after the ship Tanaka was on in her comic

[orchid kettle]

smh unsc bootlicker planet

[obsidian thistle]

The difference is that this is a Flood infected Spartan Fireteam.

[orchid kettle]

I need to figure out the name of the random human colony I want still under the rule of the Created, after Cortana's death

and even after the AI in charge of the world descends further and further into rampancy

[empty bloom]

Still not seeing where it's confirmed anything survived though.

[orchid kettle]

wouldn't any sentient flood form be intelligent

as in, the host was sentient

[empty bloom]

Unless you have info from intels that haven't dropped yet.

[last anchor]

Its better than my first iterration, which I called Pacifica...which is a continent on Arcadia lmao

[orchid kettle]

and then they got infected, the flood has all their memories

[empty bloom]

Even then, you literally can't get anything from a Spartan who got their head kaboomed.

It's kind of the point

So that last POV can't be a Spartan

[last anchor]

The charges obviously worked, but the reactor didnt.

[empty bloom]

Unless somehow the flood can get memories from a spinal column.

[last anchor]

I wonder if the last POV is just...all of them.
And theres like 40 combat forms rushing that Condor.

[orchid kettle]

sometimes I like to go digging through the list of human colonies we were provided in the encyclopedia

so many random names that otherwise have never been expanded on

[empty bloom]

That'd make sense, but the dialogue sounds like one mind specifically screaming back.

Unless Captain Alvarez's ship is destined to get turned into a self-detonating hive.

[last anchor]

The title of the chronicle IS "Saturn eating his son."

Son.
Sun.
Take that as you will.

[empty bloom]

My biggest issue with the last dude hypothetically being a Spartan is this image.

How are they screaming that they won't let the flood do things when they're dead as hell?

[ashen cape]

I mean with the flood being what it is, your consciousness isn't necessarily in your brain.

It's you.

Everywhere.

You could shoot an infected marine in the "head" as YOU know it, but it still charges you.

It's not a Romero zombie.

The only way to kill one, truly, is immolation, or deprivation of food.

And clearly the last one is contingent on, say, a bunch of miners never finding a dormant nest, for instance.

[empty bloom]

The problem is that it can't extract information immediately.

[last anchor]

Shoulda called DRG, smh

[empty bloom]

We already know it has to sift for anything worth keeping, it's had to do it before. And if the head itself is gone before the infection's even complete-such as the moments between full infection and first 'jab', so to speak-what the hell is the flood going to get from that brain?

[last anchor]

They wouldnt have let this get outta hand like this

[empty bloom]

It's like, if the flood infects a corpse that's been sitting long enough for the brains to turn to liquid (Which can be less than 30 minutes), you can't do jack to get at that mind anymore. The same concept should apply if the Spartan's entire head is just ash.

[ashen cape]

ROCK AND STONE

[ashen cape]

I mean, good point.

[last anchor]

I guess they can puppet the head even fi the nervous system is gone at least.

Then again we've seen them do really weird stuff with biomass before.
Remember the beasts from the Infinite Succor.

[empty bloom]

I mean, if Rusalka is the infected Spartan, that clearly happened, but that beggars the question of just who the hell the POV at the end is.

[ashen cape]

At that point the infected is just kind of a puppet, yeah. But there's still a datalink...wait...no...Gallows would have solved that too.

:/

[empty bloom]

Yeah! It's driving me crazy!

[last anchor]

Time to go ask Haruspus
TO THE HALOPEDIA SERVER

[empty bloom]

:c

I wish I could ask :c

[last anchor]

Is fine, I doubt Im getting an official answer

If I HAD to guess its intentionally left vauge, as is their overall survival and escape.

Makes it spoooooky

[spiral jewel]

I felt bad for the Julian guy once everything went south at a drop of a hat.

[last anchor]

Normal humans engaging the Flood never ends well.
Its like being introduced to a normal human in Warhammer 40k; the question is not if they will die but how fast and to what

[empty bloom]

I'm sure they're having a great time, when the sharpened bone spikes of a pure form turn their skull into a meat grenade.

[obsidian thistle]

Lets not outright go on Halopedia to do that. Thanks! 🙂

• Source: The Halopedia Admin who suddenly got a shiver down his spine.

[sacred rain]

interesting that all this takes place before even H4 happens

overall i gotta say i liked the story

really still reeling that i somehow guessed right about the saturn being a reference to the painting

[empty bloom]

What's funny is that it actually makes a ton of sense considering the origin of the Flood and Humanity.

Because the precursors are literally eating their children when they consume humanity as the flood.

[eager ingot]

Thankyou for all the wonderful work you do

[stoic hamlet]

Also… y’know, everyone else.

But yeah, humanity, heh.

[empty bloom]

Shh, they a hungry boi.

And it ruins like, the symbology, man.

[stoic hamlet]

They jussss’ wanna eets man…

[empty bloom]

So what I got partly from rereading the PDF, if the flood did get off the world, it sounds like it wasn't a Spartan voice at the end, even if the Spartans lost.

And considering the Captain decided to go and get drunk, I'm wagering that the UNSC Saturn is actually going to be the unfortunate household for a flood hive from a certain condor if this story gets continued.

[stoic hamlet]

I don’t think that’s likely, there’s no state of alarm or anything from the crew, no indication any flood are aboard the ship (the dropships had already returned) and no obvious signs of alarm from anyone.

[empty bloom]

Because that would clean it all up way better than, say, having an unaccounted for Condor.

[empty bloom]

More likely than them not noticing a ship going awry. It also ends before the incoming ships get back.

And the flood, even in that rudimentary state, are still smart enough to want access to a ship.

[stoic hamlet]

No they had already returned:

Captain Alvarez gazed at what had previously been known as Site 22. The view from the bridge was still engulfed in fire. Only a handful of dropships had managed to return while the others . . . well, perhaps the detonation of the Shivas had been a mercy compared to what they had likely been reshaped into.

[obsidian thistle]

Ya know

I kinda wish a map was set at Site 22 now

[empty bloom]

Sounds to me like the condor didn't get to take off, then.

[obsidian thistle]

Then why is it at the very end

After that

[empty bloom]

Spookyness.

[sacred rain]

we have the technology

we can build it

actually....

[empty bloom]

How was there any flood left to take over a condor at all if all confirmed ships either got away or got turned to molten slag on site the paragraphs before? It doesn't make sense to me for a condor to have gotten away scott free unless it decided to pretend everything was fine until it disgorged in the hanger of the convenient UNSC Saturn.

Which we know the Flood can do, even in a rudimentary state such as this?

[meager pier]

https://tenor.com/view/alien-sygourney-weaver-i-say-we-take-off-and-nuke-the-entire-site-from-orbit-its-the-only-way-to-be-sure-movie-quotes-gif-11314084

[empty bloom]

Like, yeah, sure, maybe I'm being a huge stick in the mud, but I like to assume the UNSC's gear is actually worth a damn, so that can't be a Spartan talking, considering that mind is ash.

As for the Condor, that's something they should know, and we really need an explanation for how someone screwed up their one job of tracking outgoing signatures if they knew what ships were coming and which ships were glass.

The best way I can think of for geese and gander in this case is one of the hellbringers (assuming they lack Gallows) or a Miner hijacking a condor, and the flood being smart enough to pantomime being a living, normal crew long enough to disgorge the condor into the Saturn's hangar bay.

Even if the segment is at the end, it doesn't have to be chronological order.

[covert dawn]

Could be another Jenkins situation. These flood were trapped for awhile and not even in a forerunner testing site. Literally just decaying away in the ship. It's possible the pod infector was weakened and the spartan stayed alive through the infection process and maintained some control over their vocal chords

It's also possible the spartan wasn't actually screaming but that was their internal thoughts fighting against the flood like the Hunger poem

Damn I forgot images can't be sent here

[empty bloom]

No, I mean, Gallows worked.

The part of them that makes them think is gone. Ashes. Destroyed.

[covert dawn]

We know that the one spartan we see infected had gallows activate, but we don't know about the others. The first halo waypoint entry for season 5 shows a spartan getting infected with the suit being overridden by logic plague

[empty bloom]

And that Spartan's gallows went off.

[covert dawn]

True but for the others it's possible that the suit was overridden before it could properly deploy

[empty bloom]

So we're 2-2 in known gallows function, and I'd really like to think the UNSC didn't somehow make a gallows system that has a 2-4 chance of working.

It'd be intended to be like "OOOOOOOH The flood is so scary and adaptive", but it'd just come off as BS to me.

[last anchor]

Give the Forgers a week or two.

[obsidian thistle]

Wait

[covert dawn]

I could also see the first infected spartan bashing another spartans helmet open which could've disabled gallows

[obsidian thistle]

Only a handful of dropships had managed to return while the others . . . well, perhaps the detonation of the Shivas had been a mercy compared to what they had likely been reshaped into.

"they had likely" as in

[covert dawn]

Alvarez was big dumb

He didn't properly check for any ships escaping and just went off to his quarters

[empty bloom]

Why would that be his job?

He's a Captain, not a comm officer.

[covert dawn]

Well if the spartan team was actually a spartan containment team, and judging by the cyclops and hellbringers on board. This ship likely specialized in flood containment

We know that flood containment cyclops' and hellbringer squads existed

[obsidian thistle]

This leads onto this which seems to tie into this flawed conclusion Alvarez made

Others. Fleeing. Leaving.
Horizon. Fire. Death.
A ship. Condor.

[empty bloom]

But... It's still not his job to track and log comm systems.

Honestly, if this ship just escaped it's a whole new brand of pull that I really don't care for.

[covert dawn]

It was his job as captain to contain the situation and account for his lost dropships

[obsidian thistle]

Ultimately speaking its likely Flood did escape now. Given this analysis

[empty bloom]

And it's his comm officer's job to do that job, which Captain Alvarez did not impede.

[empty bloom]

Welp, that's stupid.

[covert dawn]

If the flood used any to escape, especially a missing slipspace capable condor. Then it's his responsibility if it spreads

[empty bloom]

Yes, but actually tracking the Condor is not his job.

[empty bloom]

I'm really not seeing how this justifies your conclusion, CIA.

[obsidian thistle]

That and the guy clearly had other priorities

He wanted nothing more than to return to his quarters and get to work on the bottle of Titan Smoke he had been saving for retirement.

[covert dawn]

My point is, it was highly irresponsible of him to just walk away while the situation had barely ended. It's very possible the comm's officer missed something

[covert dawn]

Literally the worst captain that could've been sent to handle this

[obsidian thistle]

Probably was thought to be routine. And with Spartans involved... what can go wrong

[empty bloom]

Like, it's just acknowledging that, yes, a combat form saw what was blowing up, but that doesn't imply that it was even able to actually make it or that it was or wasn't caught in the blast.

[covert dawn]

"Aboard"

[empty bloom]

Yes, that is a word that is written there.

[covert dawn]

"Devour, depart"

It definitely made it

[empty bloom]

Yes, those are also words written there.

[empty bloom]

To the Condor. Did it take off, or did it want to depart. Did it die? It ends on become.

[obsidian thistle]

Yea I am more getting the idea its meant to imply its getting on a Condor and despite the persons urges. It lost.

[covert dawn]

The condor departed with it on-board tearing the passengers apart

Thought that was obvious

[obsidian thistle]

So the Flood won

[empty bloom]

Not seeing it.

[empty bloom]

It's not, lmao.

[covert dawn]

Clean your glasses

[empty bloom]

Won't need those for another 30 years.

[covert dawn]

That's debatable

[empty bloom]

So is your conclusion.

[covert dawn]

It is

[empty bloom]

God, I hate it when flood stuff comes up. People get nasty when you don't buy into their headcanon.

Much like the flood, actually.

[obsidian thistle]

In a narrative pov. Why even include the last section if it wasnt meant to suggest the Flood survived?

[covert dawn]

This guy doesn't know what a debate is, he's gotta be correct

[empty bloom]

Hardly the first time they've done that in a Halo writing.

It strikes me as a stinger to imply, but considering the stark lack of payoff, I'm not inclined to believe the Condor actually got off world. If it did get off world, it's now aboard the Saturn, and news of an outbreak on the vessel hasn't hit Captain Drinky.

[covert dawn]

That or it took control for parts unknown

We know that even in the feral stage, the flood on installation 04 took control of spirits such as the one that infected the Infinite Succor

[empty bloom]

Yes, but they didn't fly willy nilly, they had goals and ships they were trying to get to.

[covert dawn]

It's likely it returned to the Saturn but with a slipspace drive who knows where it went

[empty bloom]

I prefer to think of characters as actually doing their damn jobs even if not explicitly mentioned.

A slipspace sig is not a small thing even for a small ship.

It ends with that to spark debate and conversation (Wow, Flood! Have slipspace drive! Lore nuggets!) but the most reasonable outcome for this ending with a neat little bow is it either never actually getting off the ground, or getting to the Saturn-with Captain Drinky or his XO realizing that this is bad enough to threadcut via blowing the reactor or the Shivas still in their tubes.

[covert dawn]

If the Condor had returned to the Saturn and they were hinting at the ship being infected. I feel like there would've been a mention that a dropship wasn't responding or flying weird

There's just no solid indication either way

[obsidian thistle]

Note I aint suggesting what the Flood would do. More the implications that at least 1 survived

[covert dawn]

I agree

I see it as them setting up the possibility that the flood are still active somewhere

Like the infection form being on the spirit of fire

[obsidian thistle]

By all means 343i could just go "they were all destroyed"

But if they choose to pick up this thread its very open for them.

[empty bloom]

Which is kind of why I'm thinking they left it open ended to spark theories and whatnot.

As it's going to generate more than closing the thread right away.

[covert dawn]

Yeah they could follow up however they want now

[empty bloom]

But as this is in 2556, the thread is likely shut.

[obsidian thistle]

Reminder the Flood can live a long time

[empty bloom]

Oh right, the Condor's slipspace drive is also super limited and super fragile.

[covert dawn]

That and with the UNSC now being heavily scattered. The flood condor could've been adrift but at some point stumbled upon a UNSC ship lying low after the created outbreak

It would be a lot harder to identify missing ships now

[empty bloom]

It could lead to an even funnier comedy ending.

[obsidian thistle]

Something Has Happened happens around 4 years after Halo Wars 1. That has a Flood Infection Form casually survive without food

[covert dawn]

Not to mention these flood surviving since the forerunner flood war presumably

[empty bloom]

It slipspace jumps into Luna's orbit... three months after the start of the Created Conflict

Not to infect Earth, but to get pasted like a bug on a windshield because the Created just threw a glimmerlance at it.

[dusty ferry]

do we even know what a glimmerlance is

or if those were even produced at any point given we know of like 1 executor and its implied to be a recent thing

and I'm going to just guess glimmerlances are probably the main thing of a post cortana created fleet

unless there is other lore about them exists

[empty bloom]

I assume a cool laser orbital thing

[last anchor]

Techno lethal space laser.
Rave exterminatus.