hcs-chat

[somber swift]

you can get rubbed the wrong way a little bit, but still stay doing something if:
-you're making money
-and you're passionate about it

[abstract herald]

or they are biased ?

[winged cradle]

You aren't getting my point.

So i'm going to ask that y'all either move this to DMs or move on please 🙂

[tall mural]

hcs had reasons to deny acend partnership you might not agree with them tho but they still exist

[abstract herald]

Because their thread literally say : "In response, we received no reply to our emails, despite multiple attempts"

and it might sounds weird to you, but ChiefsESC thread say the exact same thing

so I don't think they are biased

• you know that in Europe all players are talking with each other, and every EU player know the story

same for ANZ players

Anyways, as I said, I love what HCS is doing for Halo

and I can't wait for 2024

[arctic quiver]

Folks, you've been asked to move on from this.

[tall mural]

Mhm

[somber swift]

Who were the top 12 teams that got a bye to next week in NA?

nm, found it:
https://twitter.com/HCS/status/1655272786087272451

Halo Esports (@HCS)

Here are your 12 Auto-Qualified teams for next week's NA 🇺🇸 $15,000 #HCSDallas23 Qualifier hosted by @FaZeClan!

The Top 4 teams from today's 4K Qualifier will join them for a chance at earning an invite to @DreamHack Dallas!

Twitter · May 7, 2023, 6:06 PM

This is gonna be very interesting to see who can keep the top 10 secure for the invite to Dreamhack

and top 4 in EU, too

@quiet prairie who do you think it'll be?
Quadrant
Navi
Jlingz
Awobabobs?

[abstract herald]

Top4 EU will be that yes

except Aw0babobs seed3 EU and Jlingz seed4

[somber swift]

I guess we'll have Luminosity from MX, unless 6K pulls off something huge.

ANZ is still a mystery though, it can go a couple of different ways.

Divine Mind and Mindfreak could both win.

They've both won in the onlines against each other

Hell, even Vertex won once.

[quiet prairie]

well Quadrant and Navi have too much points not to be qualified.
JLINGZ just lost a player so it can be an issue.

[somber swift]

Oh no, what happened to their player?

[quiet prairie]

He left Halo because he couldn't handle his professional, personnal and Halo at the same time

https://twitter.com/KieranQuad/status/1655194644261552130

[abstract herald]

it won't be, they took Cl0nely from JumpoutGang (top5 EU), he has around same amount of points, they'll qualify

they have 1 month to train with him, it should be good

[quiet prairie]

wel... they need to be at a good placing too.

[quiet prairie]

so who is replacing Clonely ? ^^

[abstract herald]

Stickahh

but Jumpout isn't qualifying to Dallas unfortunately

since it's only the top4 EU

[abstract herald]

they'll be top4 like always

Quad 1)
Navi 2)
Aw0 3)
Jlingz 4)
Jumpout 5)

except if it changes, but it should be that

[quiet prairie]

let's see the result of this week first alright ?

[abstract herald]

yeah true, we may get some surprises

[quiet prairie]

Navi could get 3rd and Jumpout 2st (for exemple) and boom, they go probably for 4th seed.

We don't have points per team so its hard to tell.

There is some uncertainty, that's why points to get seed is a really good change for this year

[abstract herald]

https://hcs.ee.gg/hcs23/leaderboards/4d2ec1b0-2ab2-496a-8485-45accc7a95e7

[quiet prairie]

flemme to count

[abstract herald]

bot weird? (sent you the link in dm, idk why but the bot removes it)

[quiet prairie]

its a google docs, it's not very secured

[abstract herald]

hmm okay

anyways, even if NAVI, or Aw0babobs or Jlingz, or Jumpout win.

Quadrant will still be top2 (but top1 by points)

[quiet prairie]

question is not there

[abstract herald]

NAVI will still be top2 (even if they get top3/4/5 at this 4K)

and Jumpout has only 19k points, so even if they end top2 of this 4K, they'd not qualify (their only way would be to end winner)

[quiet prairie]

seed 3 is contested by babos and JLINGZ

[abstract herald]

yeah

[abstract herald]

But Aw0 has 3k more points

[quiet prairie]

seed 4 is contested by Jumpout and BH3 + Le hazi

[abstract herald]

no

[quiet prairie]

but its hard need to make top 2

[quiet prairie]

not a lot at all

[abstract herald]

Seed 1 is contested by Quadrant and NAVI.

Seed 2 is contested by NAVI.

Seed 3 is contested by Aw0babobs and Jlingz.

Seed 4 is contested by Jlingz.

BH3 can't qualify, Le Hazi can't qualify, Jumpout can't qualify (except if they win the 4K)

[quiet prairie]

Of course they can. Hard. But possible

Need top 2 (maybe3 and JLING/Jumpout lower)

[abstract herald]

who do you mean by they?

[quiet prairie]

BH3 and Jumpout

Le Hazi, you're right, its too hard

[abstract herald]

1st - 160000
2nd - 9600
3rd - 7040
4th - 5760
5th - 5120
6th - 5120
7th - 4480
8th - 4480

[quiet prairie]

Yes BH3 need at least 10 000 points and without points from others. So impossible

[abstract herald]

Same for Jumpout

Even if Jumpout end top2 they'll be at 29170

and Aw0babobs is at 28,430

so even if Aw0babobs end top8, they'll earn 4480 extra points, and they'll still qualify

=> 32910 points

[quiet prairie]

Is on Seed 4 that is contested not seed 3

(in total)

[abstract herald]

i'm talking of seed 4

[quiet prairie]

Aw0babobs is seed 3 ...

[abstract herald]

same for Jumpout vs Jlingz

even if Jumpout ends top2 with 29170 points

and Jlingz end top8 => they'll have 30045 points

so Jlingz would qualify anyways

[abstract herald]

as I told you seed 3 and 4 are already decided

it'll be Aw0babobs and Jlingz

the only thing which can change is for seed 1 : Quadrant vs NAVI

[quiet prairie]

Non mais je pense que on se comprends pas sur le terme "contested"

[abstract herald]

tu veux dire quoi?

Car moi j'veux dire que même si Jumpout finit 2eme, et Jlingz dernier, Jumpout sera quand même éliminé

donc le seed 4 c'est forcément Jlingz

[quiet prairie]

Là seed 3 peut être babobs et JLING mais personne d'autre.

C'est le seed 4 qui est contesté par d'autres

[abstract herald]

par qui?

[quiet prairie]

Jumpout

[abstract herald]

Jumpout même s'ils finissent top2 => ILS NE GAGNERONT PAS ASSEZ DE POINTS PR ATTEINDRE LE SEED4

le seul moyen c'est de finir top1, et quand tu finis top1 t'obtiens le seed1 d'office (car le seed 1 est pas basé sur les points mais sur le winner)

Look :

• Jumpout has 19570 points, so even if they end top2 they'll get 29170 points

While :

• Jlingz has 25565 points, so even if they end top8 they'll get 30045 points (so more points than Jumpout)

[quiet prairie]

JLINGZ et Jumpout n'ont que 6000 points d'écarts donc ça se joue

Right, point taken.

[abstract herald]

Look :

• Jumpout has 19570 points, so even if they end top2 they'll get 29170 points
  => 19570 + 9600 = 29170
  While :
• Jlingz has 25565 points, so even if they end top8 they'll get 30045 points (so more points than Jumpout)
  => 25565 + 4480 = 30045

[quiet prairie]

Must have messed up with numbers then

[abstract herald]

Jumpout can't qualify

and Jlingz can't be seed 3 even if they end top2

so Seeds 3 and 4 are already decided : Aw0babobs and Jlingz

now the battle is for the seed 1.
Since Navi has won Quadrant at last 2K, we may have some surprises

[thorny crescent]

discussion needs to take place in english please folks

[quiet prairie]

Execpt there was a misunderstanding so we needed to clarify

[arctic quiver]

Doesn't matter, you've been told before. Please keep discussion in English

[somber swift]

Oh man, I can understand that

[abstract herald]

looking for a mod/admin pls?

[supple kettle]

For server moderation concerns, please message @proud summit.

[tame sandal]

Please do it, for us, for Europe, for Halo

The Esport Org Sked_Esport 🇨🇭 is asking their community to choose a game where they'll organize a LAN!
This year in Europe, we had not the chance to get an HCS LAN, so please vote for Halo and help us getting an EU LAN. :)

PLEASE VOTE FOR THE HALO EUROPEAN LAN :

Link : https://twitter.com/Sked_Esport/status/1655958623305060353

24 hours to get as many votes for Halo as possible!
Share with your friends/colleagues...

Sked Esport (@Sked_Esport)

1 réponse = 1 vote supplémentaire

Twitter · May 9, 2023, 3:31 PM

(Original message by Vaktor)

[gloomy bridge]

havent seen hcs in a bit, optic still on top?

[somber swift]

yes, but faze is really close

[gloomy bridge]

neat, who's rated third atm?

[somber swift]

SSG

[somber swift]

https://twitter.com/HCS/status/1655737063915028480

Halo Esports (@HCS)

$15,000 is on the line in this week's #HCSDallas23 Qualifier hosted by @FaZeClan!

Tune in as the best teams in NA 🇺🇸 fight it out in the last #HCSOpenSeries ahead of the HCS Global Invitational at @DreamHack Dallas!

📅 May 12-13
🕛 12p ET
📺 https://t.co/eB1bKDSV1k

Likes

297

Twitter · May 9, 2023, 12:50 AM

No one can catch up with just the next tournament alone - it'll only yield 16k points to the winning team at most - and SSG is already guaranteed to earn enough points even if they go 0-3 in the Pools for this next tournament

[somber swift]

https://twitter.com/Sked_Esport/status/1655958623305060353

Click the voting buttons, and ALSO COMMENT on the tweet to help Halo get a LAN in Europe.

Sked Esport (@Sked_Esport)

1 réponse = 1 vote supplémentaire

Twitter · May 9, 2023, 3:31 PM

[tall mural]

The 16k would boost SSG over what OpTic has currently, but that doesn’t take into consideration the points optic will get as well

[somber swift]

Oh I meant no one can really catch up to take over 3rd

[somber swift]

My own whimsical predictions for Pools:

[tall mural]

Sen losing to avengers is nuts

[somber swift]

Sometimes I'm a little nuts, what can I say?

If it were LAN, I'd make different predictions

[tall mural]

Lmao fair

[somber swift]

But, I'm happy for Sparty to prove me wrong!

[tardy arch]

✅ ✅ ✅

[copper quartz]

10 minutes left!!!!
if you can still vote rn go

[copper thunder]

How is Splatoon winning? Maybe I'm a boomer but I've no idea what Splatoon is lol

[copper thunder]

We're into the semifinals let's go!!!

[torpid beacon]

We are not sadly. They declared us cheating even though splatoon cheated as well.

[tame sandal]

Cheating?

[somber swift]

apparently the votes for Halo got like 4,000 more in just 1 hour so they are assuming it was botted.

which is probably true, but people are also claiming that players who were supporting Splatoon were botting the whole time, just in more even increments so it wasn't so obvious.

overall seems like a really flawed way to decide what kind of LAN you want to run.

[copper quartz]

What a shame

ultimately the decision should've been somewhat regional, getting some NA folks to vote for what should be held in a french LAN event isn't the best course of action

[somber swift]

that's also true

[quiet prairie]

but impossible to do

[somber swift]

This is actually a nice little vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwklSXOabxA&feature=youtu.be

[quiet prairie]

noice

[torpid beacon]

Wall hacking and aim botting. I have seen many a Smurf account using these malicious tactics.
50 - 300 games played. Standing with their face in the wall and boom, precision shots while spinning around like a ballerina.
Tactical Slayer mainly and including other social matchmaking queues. And sadly, we "my team" feel it is happening in ranked.
Honestly, we thought this was content to purchase with Halo Credits. But I digress, I wish the cheating, smurfing, and desync gets fixed.

[somber swift]

Completely unrelated to my post

[torpid beacon]

Just pointing out that it is happening in the community, non-HCS, and in HCS?
The capabilities that allow this in Halo Infinite, online, on LAN, etc.. is ridiculous.

[somber swift]

My post had nothing to do with cheating in any video game

It was to do with a twitter poll, and people using bots on twitter

[torpid beacon]

Oh. 🙂 My bad. Apologies.
But yet, the cheating in-game is still an issue. It'd be for a different topic though.

[somber swift]

True

[somber swift]

We got an announcement
https://twitter.com/FaZeClan/status/1656372853153886215?t=ASWVzudq6foNmkq0jeDDAQ&s=19

FaZe Clan (@FaZeClan)

Introducing our #HCSDallas23 Qualifier powered by @GhostLifestyle

$15K + Qualification on the line as the best teams in NA compete ahead of the HCS Global Invitational

📺 May 12-13 live on our Twitch

Likes

151

Twitter · May 10, 2023, 6:57 PM

[quartz kite]

anyone in the Oklahoma area dm me if you wanna compete in college halo

[somber swift]

uh oh
https://twitter.com/marlonauftwitch/status/1656385142795956226

CruX M85 (@marlonauftwitch)

Was this intended? There is still a short "charge" in ranked KOTH.
@HaloSupport @Unyshek @Tashi343i

▶ Play video

Twitter · May 10, 2023, 7:46 PM

[vale heath]

Is there an explanation of how hcs drops work?

[tiny sparrow]

https://twitter.com/KingJayJS/status/1656356162260836352?cxt=HHwWgICxkezJx_wtAAAA

Jay (@KingJayJS)

Why did you change the hill rotations AND locations 2 days before a massive qualifier are we trolling? @HCS

Likes

187

Twitter · May 10, 2023, 5:50 PM

[somber swift]

Pinned

[vale heath]

thanks

[somber swift]

After reading that though, let us know if you have any more questions.
Happy to clarify, it's just easier starting with that basic info 🙂

Fact that Faze doesn't have a Discord event for their own tournament isn't very promising:

[vale heath]

the only thing i would have had an issue with is signing into waypoint, but apparently you just have to minimize the tab

[somber swift]

you have trouble signing into WP?

[vale heath]

normally yes

i figured out how to though

[somber swift]

ok, that's good!

[vale heath]

yeah, can't wait to start following HCS

[somber swift]

Have you follow competitive Halo before?

[vale heath]

i tried to back when 5 first started up

got distracted by real life though

[somber swift]

I feel you.
Let me know if you've got any more questions, I've been following since about 2018 pretty closely, so end of 5 and all of Infinite

[abstract herald]

Actually no one cheated on halo side. We have proofs Splatoon purchased bots and botted themselves to win. They also botted us to get us banned. We told it to Sked, so we’ll see what’ll happen next week

[vale heath]

so like, how is this season going so far?

[copper thunder]

Dam that's crazy

[abstract herald]

We sent the proofs to Sked, we'll see what they'll do

but I think they'll ban Splatoon

and make a public post to tell the community they got wrong on us

[hardy idol]

Hello H3 MLG player Constructive here,
May we go back to party matching 1s 2s 3s and 4s the way it was on 360? Being able to lock in 3v3 was so fun!

[sand mauve]

Cant Some please help me to buy (Sapphire grey ) coating @proud summit😥

[supple kettle]

Human, you are confusing even ME, the mighty IRATUS, with your request...

[tall mural]

wrong chat, this is for discussing the Halo esports scene

but sorry I can't either 🥲

[somber swift]

Year 2 is a bit strange with the gaps in LANs, but we're approaching summer now and it's gonna be a LOT of LANs now

Optic faze and SSG are the top 3 teams

[tall mural]

the natives would like to speak to your manager

lmao neither of them are very proven but still

[somber swift]

yeah, they have a shot at breaking through top 3, for sure!

[sand mauve]

thanks 😥

[abstract herald]

What happened with Splatoon and Sked
https://twitter.com/VaktorTV/status/1656985815963119621
Long thread, with all the proofs @somber swift

[abstract herald]

LET'S GET 32 TEAMS !!! :

NAVI x EUROPAHALO SPRING SERIES OPEN#2 MAY 14 12:00 BST :
https://faceit.com/en/championship/9dc17c99-74a6-4880-a144-507b9f260c72/NaVi x Europa Halo Spring Series Open 2
💰 QUALIFYING

https://twitter.com/EuropaHalo/status/1656950974626373632

[tame sandal]

I just saw this image, no friggen way Halo would've won at the end against most of these games.

[abstract herald]

we would have. If you look at my thread we brought every top teams :

• Optic
• SEN
• SSG
• Quadrant
• COL
• Luminosity
• NAVI
  etc...

[vale heath]

we wouldn't have beaten smash

[abstract herald]

We would have

[tame sandal]

[abstract herald]

The facts proved Sked_Esport to be non professional at all.
We will never work with them on Halo, they don't deserve support.

[abstract herald]

Anyways, now we know it, one should always be wary when it comes to beautiful promises like that.

[vale heath]

so when is the next match?

[abstract herald]

next match is next tuesday Smash vs Splatoon
and they're just gonna to bot again

But anyways, I doubt of the capacity of this small 🇨🇭 org to be able to organise a lan

the whole thing may just be a scam

[somber swift]

who did sentinels beat and lose to so far?

wait COMPLEXITY BEAT FAZE 3-0?

[somber swift]

and Mantra upset G1 3-1!

[somber swift]

So complexity went 3-0 in pools....

Faze 2-1

Rebellion 1-2
Locked 0-3

[somber swift]

I might be right

[tall mural]

dang

[somber swift]

Going into game 5

[tall mural]

Sen wins

[somber swift]

they pulled out the W!

n8v white in danger of going out 0-3

[somber swift]

n8v red goes 1-2 in pools

[tall mural]

bruh

[somber swift]

and they're out

[tall mural]

dang

[somber swift]

I can't believe HCS and Faze didn't ever announce the talent for this broadcast tournament. I love that LVT has such high viewership, but it's kinda sad Faze isn't even pulling 1k

[tall mural]

yep

[somber swift]

https://hcs.faceitdb.com/brackets/dallas-qual-na-5-12-13
@quiet prairie

[quiet prairie]

yup not following this week. it's the ZLAN ^^

[somber swift]

?

[quiet prairie]

https://twitter.com/ZLAN_FR/status/1657300786307641344/photo/1
Top 1 Twitch yesterday ^^

[somber swift]

What game?

[quiet prairie]

its multigaming (10 games + a puzzle and 1 mystery game)

still no Halo, alas

[somber swift]

Gotcha

Is anyone broadcasting the EU 4K today?

https://www.twitch.tv/outqasted

https://www.faceit.com/en/championship/d135fcd1-d18b-4179-9716-1c7f9284c575/EU HCS 4000 Series 05-13/matches

[desert dagger]

Are there twitch drops this weekend

[tepid mason]

Just old stuff

[vale heath]

It’s with it for the new watchers

[somber swift]

https://twitter.com/AshamanND/status/1657447008255475712

AshamanND (@AshamanND)

@HCS 4Ks happening right now:
🇺🇸🇨🇦https://t.co/5gVWgOdXo6
🇪🇺 https://t.co/DnmRpPjIXu
🇲🇽 https://t.co/fg27eHsaLX

@FaZeClan and @LVTHalo
@Outqasted
@EZEsportsLATAM

Twitter · May 13, 2023, 6:05 PM

[somber swift]

I can't believe this Complexity - Optic series right now

[somber swift]

This happened yesterday, and now Optic is losing 0-2 to Complexity (after getting knocked down 0-3 against Faze)

[severe mantle]

ayoooooo Col beat Optic

let's gooooo

happy happy happy

[tall mural]

optic top 6 again

[tall mural]

SSG beat faze

[copper thunder]

Love to see SSG being this good

[tall mural]

indeed

[copper thunder]

the competition is so good right now! We'll see if things will change on lan but these online tournaments showed that the top 3 or 4 teams are really really close. It looks like anyone from Optic, Faze, SSG or Complexity can get the w

[supple dew]

That strongholds game was a slaughtering, a massacre.

[somber swift]

I don't think COL will take #1 on LAN - they don't have the experience yet.

we'll see though

[copper thunder]

Also Native Red hasn't been as consistent but potentially they can enter the discussion as well as the top 4 team. They beat Optic in the last 4k, now let's see if they beat Complexity and reach losers finals

[somber swift]

true

[abstract herald]

ONLY 14 TEAMS REGISTERED

NAVI x EUROPAHALO SPRING SERIES OPEN#2 MAY 14 12:00 BST :
https://faceit.com/en/championship/9dc17c99-74a6-4880-a144-507b9f260c72/NaVi x Europa Halo Spring Series Open 2
💰 QUALIFYING

https://twitter.com/EuropaHalo/status/1656950974626373632

LET'S GET 32 TEAMS !!! :

[somber swift]

Remember, EU - there are actual HCS points available in this! ^^

[quiet prairie]

and 5000€ in cashprize (finals only)

[abstract herald]

$5000*

[quiet prairie]

it was in euros on the Navi website

[abstract herald]

oh so it's euro then

[quiet prairie]

the com and their site now gives in dollars, might have changed since announcement

[grand pagoda]

who saw round 2 SSG vs Faze, that rocket backsmack

[somber swift]

that was crazy to watch

[grand pagoda]

SSG is going crazy

[oblique river]

Mid clan

[grand pagoda]

Penguin played insane today TBH

[supple dew]

Faze got embarrassed, what a pity.

[grand pagoda]

nah people just forget how good SSG was and is

[noble field]

You’re funny.

[oblique river]

mid clan

[noble field]

Please explain.

[oblique river]

faze clan is mid af

[tall mural]

Six karma won in Latin America!

[vale heath]

Cool

[severe mantle]

are there going to be matches today?

[somber swift]

That's actually kinda crazy

who the heck were those guys on "My Little Ponys" anyway?

[tall mural]

So Luminosity swapped in Atzo for Mqgico. Mqgico was on My Little Ponys, along with Gambino who used to be a part of Pittsburgh Knights

[somber swift]

So then MLP was a surprise last minute contender then

and in the end it was the team that kept a consistent roster that won the spot to Dreamhack

[tall mural]

yep

highly goofish

[tiny sparrow]

little shade
https://twitter.com/TriPPPeY/status/1657812898176016384?cxt=HHwWgIC9vYSD3oEuAAAA

OpTic Trippy (@TriPPPeY)

Won 2/6 online tournaments and the last LAN + most total points = 3rd seed 👍

Likes

1055

Twitter · May 14, 2023, 6:19 PM

https://twitter.com/FormaL/status/1657577120950898688?cxt=HHwWgMC-of_m8oAuAAAA

OpTic FormaL (@FormaL)

The HCS format is laughable, we just played like 10 2k/4ks just to have those points mean nothing. Just another hilarious decision out of them

Likes

3254

Twitter · May 14, 2023, 2:42 AM

[somber swift]

He's just salty that:

1. he didn't know how the tournaments actually worked
2. They kinda got slapped around

I wonder if anyone has put out their prediction for how the pools will look at dreamhack with all the international teams yet

[gloomy bridge]

can u eli5 how the points work

and why trippy thinks he deserved more

[somber swift]

He doesn't think he deserves more.
I'll explain later

[gloomy bridge]

oh mb, thanks

[tall mural]

“just win” - hcs

[copper thunder]

https://twitter.com/iGotUrPistola/status/1657898039510544386?s=20 Send Ola some love

[somber swift]

For the embed
https://twitter.com/iGotUrPistola/status/1657898039510544386?t=NjIwsrDTieYItY5KuuNOYQ&s=19

Justin (@iGotUrPistola)

A little update for anyone who’s interested lol.
No I’m not doing well, been pretty miserable all around. That’s why I haven’t tweeted or been around.

Likes

1791

Twitter · May 14, 2023, 11:57 PM

💔

[cold kayak]

[quiet prairie]

The only thing that HCS didn't said was that the qualifier were 1st and 2nd seed. But it was well known that winning (+2nd) this tournament was for a qualification.
And when they say that points are for nothing, they are just hypocritical because they have the first seed in points because of points and the other 7 teams are from points...

And again, they don't even compare to the situation in ANZ and MX were points REALLY means nothing...

[abstract herald]

Actually they had said it

But personnaly, I think they should do half qualified with qualifiers and half qualified with points

[quiet prairie]

I would not...

[copper thunder]

The fact that a single tournament can automatically give you first and second seed is wild imo so I agree with them. Bad timing for pointing this out though, after a disappointing result. Unless they were unaware of the rules but that's hard to believe

I agree with Formal, what's the point of playing all these 4k and 2k tournaments if then one can override everything and give you first seed going into the next lan?

[analog pine]

Hum.

[somber swift]

It doesn't override everything - Optic still has a large amount of points.

And as far as we know, this is only for the Invitational - which is a special kind of tournament. It's not likely to be the case for normal Major LANs.

Not to mention, Optic still earned a bit of $ by placing top 2 in some of those tournaments

On another note, the only Halo we have happening with an actual HCS impact for the next little while is the Navi Spring Series - HCS points are awarded in this too.
I wonder if those points will figure into the EU's seeding in the Dreamhack tournament?

[tall mural]

why does this give hcs points 💀

[somber swift]

not sure, but I'm ok with it.
It's not very many points, won't really have an impact - and it encourages more participation in a region that sorely needs it.

[quiet prairie]

its not enough at all 350 points is nothing

[quiet prairie]

because it's a Grassroots and partnered team.

• already done like this last year (with even pass for the regional)

[somber swift]

it's 350 per player, but yeah it's not much.

It's still cool to see though, I think.

[tall mural]

true

[quiet prairie]

it's like being 13 to 16 to an Open (without qualifier)

And i said enough but i wanted to say "it's not enough to matter"

[tall mural]

can we talk about how hcs content has changed from year 1 to year 2?

no AMD power plays (replaced with “top 5 ____” videos) no featured matches

more comms videos though— nice, but it seems like less effort is being put into their content

[somber swift]

It's early still.
Only 1 LAN so far, not a lot of that juicy footage yet.

[noble field]

@quiet prairie 350 would be a ton for an amateur player trying to grind his way up. The actual prize pool is too big in comparison that the points will go to people that don’t need them though.

[somber swift]

https://twitter.com/MagickMoonshot/status/1658256851262222336
I'm guessing this is FFA, but I don't know?

sQ MagickMoonshot (@MagickMoonshot)

If you're buying a BYOC Pass for Dreamhack Dallas, you can compete in the $5K Halo Tournament!

Friday, June 2:
Check-In 4pm
Tournament 5pm

Twitter · May 15, 2023, 11:43 PM

[gloomy bridge]

Saw the last tourney, trippy was costing

Like triple negative bad

No wonder he’s salty

[copper thunder]

https://twitter.com/Spacestation/status/1658205855215661056?s=20 🤣

[torpid beacon]

Correct

[somber swift]

Apparently it's actually 4v4

[somber swift]

Dreamhack seeding and pools, according to OllyJ

[quiet prairie]

2 eu teams in only 2 pools ? what's that XD

[somber swift]

there's 4

[quiet prairie]

It's 1 EU team per pool like alway (and what's normal)

[somber swift]

oh i see

[somber swift]

In a way, this means we're guaranteed to have at least 2 EU teams make it into the bracket.

[quiet prairie]

Seen like this XD

but that means less NA opponent too... and that's why EU and other teams are here. not to compete again against themselves

[somber swift]

the best EU teams will compete against NA teams in bracket, where it matters

[quiet prairie]

and with thoses explanation, this table is not following it (Quadrant is seed 11 in the table)

[somber swift]

yes, it is following it

[quiet prairie]

exept 1 on the team in the pool wont make it to the bracket...
And Pool play is more series too

[quiet prairie]

Well Quadrant should be seed 9 with Vaktor explanation. .. so no. It doesn't follows it

[somber swift]

I see what you mean

I guess regions outside NA still get put at bottom regardless...?

I dunno

[quiet prairie]

Of course OllyJ could be right too. It don't have any information.

[quiet prairie]

ANZ and MX will be 15 and 16 yes

Of course we might get answer only 1 week before, because, why not ^^

[somber swift]

I don't expect an early announcement.

There's always a potential issue for Visas and substitute players, and that might affect things.

I'd love to be wrong though

[quiet prairie]

Visa is only for MX no ? Because of american politics other countries don't require it for one week ?

[somber swift]

I think it might still be required for some other areas, because the players are going to earn money in the USA

it's not a vacation

[quiet prairie]

right. I don't know thoses strange rules

[somber swift]

quadrant player couldn't come - but that was passport i think for charlotte

[quiet prairie]

he lost his passport, not a visa problem

https://liquipedia.net/halo/Halo_Championship_Series/2023/Kickoff_Major/Pool_Play
So, if we just follow what happened in Charlotte then OllyJ is wrong

[somber swift]

True

[quiet prairie]

... but there is 2 more EU teams, so not 1-1 situation

[somber swift]

maybe not- charlotte had an open bracket

[quiet prairie]

yup, you're right, forgot about that. It will be like this in the Major

[quiet prairie]

Anyhow : in my opinion if HCS puts 2 EU teams in only 2 pools, that would be a real shame

[somber swift]

sounds like it's likely though

And 'shame' depends on your perspective.

Some people might think its' better, as it could guarantee a potentially deeper bracket run for 1-2 EU teams.

[quiet prairie]

but overall, there will be less potentiality for Eu team in bracket AND less EU/other regions series (for exemple no EU/MX or EU/ANZ series) ....

[somber swift]

I agree with the second half, that's a shame.
Would be great to see some EU vs non-NA teams

perhaps we'll get lucky and see it in pools.

[quiet prairie]

and that only possible in these condition

[somber swift]

but the ANZ and MX teams aren't necessarily the 'best' players from those regions, just a strange luck win for them.

6K is still good though

[quiet prairie]

6K is the best team (almost won every open)
But yes for ANZ, it was a qualification only be placing in one tournement (another missmanagement to me)

[somber swift]

I wouldn't say that - Luminosity has been winning a lot

but of course, they had to change their roster

[quiet prairie]

right ! I just confused them...

[somber swift]

6K was consistently in second, I think beat them once or twice

[quiet prairie]

anyway... that's was mismanagement to put a qualifier and not only for points (or more places)

[somber swift]

I think it could've been better if it were 20 teams, still with the qualifier though

[quiet prairie]

That's the thing with trying to follow every region, you end up confusing every team XD

[somber swift]

1st place team from MX and ANZ in the qualifier gets in, and one more from each based on points.
Same as current for EU
same as current for NA, but 2 more teams on points.

[quiet prairie]

exacly

[somber swift]

then a 16 team bracket

[quiet prairie]

It would have been more fair to those regions

And like this only 1 team goes to the Major by qualification (like now)

[somber swift]

Although, it seems like having a 20 team pool is too much for them

it would need to be something similar to how they did Worlds

with an 8 team play-in bracket

[quiet prairie]

for HCS ?
But there is no open bracket...

[quiet prairie]

-but bracket allows less series... so less playing

[somber swift]

yeah, they don't seem to want to do 20 team pools at all

https://twitter.com/jmpShadow/status/1658521376242663426

John Perez (@jmpShadow)

“@AshamanND @VaktorTV @OllyJ @MrTeaNCrumpets @natusvincere @EuropaHalo @BH3_Esport @FACEITHalo @Tashi343i @RichieHeinz Hey Ashaman, the language you've referenced is intended to describe seeding for the open bracket but I can see how that's a bit unclear, i'll make a note to clarify. For pool play that seeding is always outlined in the event spe...

Twitter · May 16, 2023, 5:14 PM

So we never know how pools will be seeded until there's an event specific page.
Got it.

[quiet prairie]

they did it only for majors last year (don't remember if there was any problem) and there was no elimination too

[somber swift]

hmmm

[quiet prairie]

After looking at it, i think its just a timing problem. They want to cut cost so they need only 2 days and without going to much into the night (4am in CEST) to not do night time overpaid + have rest time.
Even with 5th place in elimination. It would still be 1st day until 4am cest only for pools and then all the day after for bracket but that would be too long for only 1 day

[somber swift]

yeah, timing for sure

[quiet prairie]

WAIT : saying S, the invitationnal is on 3 days....

I think it would be possible on 3 days wwith 20 teams and no open bracket + 5th place is an elimination

[somber swift]

For those keeping track:
https://twitter.com/JakeSucky/status/1658506859861659648

Jake Lucky (@JakeSucky)

After reports saying FaZe Clan OG members and owners were planning to sell their shares

FaZe Banks and CEO Lee Trink deny the claims and that they aren't selling

Likes

272

Twitter · May 16, 2023, 4:17 PM

[tall mural]

Definitely would have been better with 20 teams

3 teams from MX and 3 from ANZ would have done wonders for keeping those regions alive. And the top 3 in each of those regions is a very close race: Vertex and Divine Mind went to a GF reset game 7 and Mindfreak has some big names on its roster too. Same with 6K, MLP, and Luminosity

[somber swift]

3 from each of those regions would definitely not work

I doubt 3 teams from mexico could all get visas, tbh

[tall mural]

that’s true

[somber swift]

and the third place team from either region would be greatly outclassed by say the 11/12 in NA

[tall mural]

Right

ehhh my brain isn’t working lmao 😭

[somber swift]

definitely not good for an invitational.

however, giving 3rd place travel coverage to an open bracket - that could work

but that's a different tournament

[tall mural]

right that would probably be the major

Going back to the conversation about visas, kind of relatedly, I still don’t understand why Colombian players can’t compete in LATAM. Johaan, Pelu and some other good players kinda just got left behind there.

[somber swift]

Charlotte gave 3 travel to ANZ, but not MX

[tall mural]

💀 what

[somber swift]

need to work out some sort of agreements with governments to host tournaments (even digitally) there, I suppose

[tall mural]

right

[somber swift]

Orlando was awesome.
24 team bracket

[tall mural]

Kansas City was better 🤷‍♂️

[somber swift]

I think they were the same format...

[quiet prairie]

not online at all. Its only for lag I think

[somber swift]

yep, kansas was same as orlando, just more flowery words

[somber swift]

is there that much lag between columbia and mexico?

[quiet prairie]

apparently yes.
Countries do not negociate with private compagny

[tame sandal]

You mean Colombia?

[somber swift]

yes

[somber swift]

"Countries do not negociate with private compagny"
That's not true

[tame sandal]

It is quite the distance, think South Texas to north USA kind of distance.

[somber swift]

sure,
But we can have someone living in Alaska and someone living in florida, both competing in HCS online.

[tame sandal]

What was the original question again?

[quiet prairie]

And what is to negotiate too ? It's just playing online.
It's the same for all central american and Caribbean countries that are excluded to compete in MX region

[tame sandal]

I think I'm not getting the full context

[quiet prairie]

for playing online I mean

[somber swift]

Also not true.

Companies need to make sure they are in compliance with and country's laws and regulations, if they are going to host a tournament (even if online) that includes prize money.

[quiet prairie]

Exacly, companies comply to law. It's not negotiable

[somber swift]

question was "why isn't Colombia in a region with MX for HCS?"
I responded, "need to work out agreements with governments to host tournaments."
someone else said "probably due to lag"

[somber swift]

i never said negotiate.
I said work out agreement, which means, they would need to get permission etc.

[quiet prairie]

And so for Competing online there absolutly no need to "negotiate".
Its forbidden or its not
For exemple Cuba is excluded in the USA because of US law

[somber swift]

i never said negotiate

[quiet prairie]

"some sort of **agreements **with governments"

[tame sandal]

Lag is a simple answer for a complex problem, it's got to be deeper.

[somber swift]

Obtaining a permit, is a type of an agreement with a government

[quiet prairie]

HCS never answered to it

[quiet prairie]

a permit of what ??

[somber swift]

not true.
Tashi touched on it in his first big LVT interview, about why some regions aren't included in HCS in year 1

[quiet prairie]

and what was its answer ?

Always hidden communication too, love it

[somber swift]

not hidden

[quiet prairie]

Its on a LVT interview.... Not publicized by HCS probably

[tame sandal]

They don't have to publicize everything, some topics are so niche they're only going to be asked on an interview.

[quiet prairie]

Excluding countries is not a niche.
There was a problem with Estonia last year too (i think it was forgot by HCS team to white list it)

Let's remember that Saudi Arabia can compete in EU HCS for no reason too

[somber swift]

"no reason"?

[quiet prairie]

Its not in europe at all ... no one plays it (not mentioning politics...)

https://wpassets.halowaypoint.com/wp-content/2023/05/HCS_2023_Program_Handbook_v1.2.pdf
the handbook was updated the 5th apparently.
Do someone know what is new /changed ?

[somber swift]

not sure

[somber swift]

no timestamps, but I welcome you to watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N93a8-0htVQ&t=9s

[tame sandal]

One could consider it niche on an organizational level when you take into account the impact it would have.

For instance, you have to make a due process and planning to be available in a place like Saudi Arabia, if no one plays it like you say, then what's the point of investing time into making it available in the first place? That's probably the same case for other countries. It's not nice, but an organization has to pick its battles sometimes.

[quiet prairie]

It don't know. Why does Morrocco, Algeria and Tunisia are excluded then ? There a lot of bi-nationality in Europe for these countries and it's with less lag an SA...

Ok so a change for the rules are that the Worlds have a date and a prizepool (1 M $), not new infos
Date of locked roster have been changed

[somber swift]

ok, I think those were already announced, but now they're in the rules properly?

[quiet prairie]

exacly

[tame sandal]

Same point: Logistics, costs, impact of players and the chances of the event being a flunk... Like it or not, Halo in some countries is too much of a niche game to even consider.

[quiet prairie]

logistic of what ... it's online...

[somber swift]

we're not even talking about events though. just the ability to play HCS online officially.

[tame sandal]

Prizes, agreements, taxation, all that you were talking about before takes hours that could be spent on other things. Unless we're talking about making a tournament just for the heck of it.

[somber swift]

this is more what I was meaning

343 still needs to navigate all the legal hurdles of supporting prizes in additional countries

[quiet prairie]

that, i can understand

United Arab Emirates is in Europe too ^^

Strangely Luxemburg is not even with is laxist taxation (+UE zone)

[tame sandal]

I thought the Middle East is part of Asia? 🤨

[quiet prairie]

not according to HCS 😉

eastern europe is globally ignored even if in the UE (so rules are harmonized a little bit)

[abstract herald]

No the best format would be :

• Global Invitationals (20 Teams) :
  TOP12 NA
  TOP4 EU
  TOP2 MX
  TOP2 ANZ

• Major Pools (20 Teams, 16 Invited) :
  TOP10 NA
  TOP4 EU
  TOP1 MX
  TOP1 ANZ

• Majors Open Bracket :
  4 NA
  2 EU
  2 MX
  2 ANZ

[somber swift]

that's not a bad thing.

There must've been some reason it was less of a hurdle for them to include UAE - perhaps there were pre-existing work done that allowed them to be simpler.

[quiet prairie]

That's it for rules change, it was mainly for the roster locking for the invitationnal

[quiet prairie]

Only thing is for major with 20 teams in pool play is too much time. So need to be 16 in total max

[quiet prairie]

maybe yes, we don't have answers to this. The simple fact that all UE countries are not all inclued is strange. But that's how it is

[somber swift]

We have a "North America" region and Mexico is technically in North America.

I wouldn't get too hung up on the name of the region, specifically.

[somber swift]

with no open bracket, 20 team pools is do-able

[tall mural]

yes

[quiet prairie]

it's debatable with the notion of "Central America" but from one perspective yes

[abstract herald]

Actually Morocco/Algeria/Tunisia would be a good location to EU teams. And a good location to organise a big Regional Lan with cheaper costs than Valencia in Spain.

And it would bring 300% more people than HCS Valencia 2022. I think HCS are not considering this region correctly.

[somber swift]

I've never seen anyone classify Mexico in Central America

[quiet prairie]

France

[abstract herald]

Majors are on 3 days, so no, and it did work well last year with Kansas and Orlando

[somber swift]

https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Central_America

[quiet prairie]

I strongly disagree with a LAN in North Africa

[abstract herald]

@somber swift could you quickly resume me what he said about "no lans" pls?

[somber swift]

?

[quiet prairie]

its only a geographical definition. Not culturally or politically.

[abstract herald]

It would bring thousands people. HCS Valencia brought no one

• cheaper costs

[somber swift]

I think you're thinking about interview #2

[tame sandal]

Anything Guatemala and below is Central America

[abstract herald]

I just want to know what Tashi said about "no lans", his answer (bc can't understand a long interview in english like this one)

[quiet prairie]

Cheaper yes. But it would certainly not bring thousands of people....

[quiet prairie]

Yes, but a major have an open bracket

[abstract herald]

It would.... Oh it would. And it would even bring the EU teams.
More people
More visibility
More visitors
Cheaper costs

and that's like 1000% sure

I can assure you a lan in Morocco would bring thousands of people

[quiet prairie]

too much cost for HCS, it was from 18:00 to 04:00(CEST) ... that's too much

[quiet prairie]

Do you really think Germans, English, French and all would come to Morocco to see the LAN (ie getting out of the UE zone and needing a passport + taking a flight) ?

[abstract herald]

Imagine :
EU -> EMEA
EMEA Regional Lan Finals in Morocco
20-Team Pools :
TOP16 Invited Teams
Open Bracket (At least 32 teams)
Thousands of visitors
More visibility

[abstract herald]

they would for sure

[quiet prairie]

you're dreaming

[abstract herald]

They would rather travel in Morocco than Valencia

[abstract herald]

bro I know the EU scene state, and I know the players. They'll travel 100%

[quiet prairie]

the player, maybe. People, no

[abstract herald]

London-Rabat (Morocco Capital) is cheaper than London-Valencia (Spain)

[tall mural]

that would be a cool idea but the Africa part of it may be concerning

[abstract herald]

We'll get few part of people from EU, and a bigger part from Moroccans themselves

[tall mural]

not sure what the reception is there

[abstract herald]

bringing new people, new community...

and I assure you a big lan like this from HCS in Morocco would bring thousands of moroccans

[tall mural]

right

but if online play continues to be a central piece of this, then that would be very difficult to pull off

[abstract herald]

they'll pay their visitor ticket and they'll come watch teams competing

[somber swift]

correct.
I just saw he also had said 20 teams for invitationals, which I agree would be good.

[abstract herald]

I'm even pretty certain Moroccan government (or the city it'll take place in) will officially promote the event, and it'll be on all television channels

[somber swift]

You'll need to provide more context.
Are you talking about 'no lans in regions outside NA'?

[tall mural]

^ from a whole season perspective

[abstract herald]

because it'd be the 1st major gaming event there, and I think it'll even attract moroccan players and teams to halo

[abstract herald]

Yeah. What was his answer about "no lans in regions outside of NA" ?

[somber swift]

is Morocco in the EU?
If not, could be harder to travel there.

[abstract herald]

Anyways, Regional Lans have to come back in EU/MX/ANZ, or next year no one will compete in these regions outside the top4

[somber swift]

this was a different interview than the one I linked.

[abstract herald]

we can already see it with ANZ

[tame sandal]

This is starting to touch the dream zone, most politicians tend to be oblivious towards games, I doubt they'd care enough to advertise on ALL TV channels.

[abstract herald]

it's not, it's in North-Africa. But no they are in good terms with Europe, and you can travel there very easily

[abstract herald]

perhaps not all tv channels. But it'll be on the main National TV channel for sure

[somber swift]

it would be a different story for ANZ slightly, if only they could get matchmaking to work for the top players there.

[abstract herald]

and it'll be advertised by the city too

[abstract herald]

In EU, it'll be an issue if we don't get back Online Supers and Regional Lans in 2024

people are already thinking to leave the game, since there's no more events there. They even reduced the number of Open Series this year

3rd party lans and 3rd party online cups won't feed the region infinitely

[tall mural]

^

[weary ginkgo]

is there a site that has all the callouts for the maps?

[somber swift]

The reason was 2 parted.

1.) They didn't want to do ANY region specific tournaments anymore in year 2. This is because they felt having the top teams from the whole world compete at every LAN is the best product possible. This includes removal of NA teams only regionals, keep in mind.
2.) Logistics, timing, and honestly $$ prevented them from holding one (or more) of the Major LANS outside of North America as the hosted spot in year 2.

"Our aim was for sustainability long term, and we do have ambitions to expand and bring ... events back to those regions."

It's important to keep in mind that there truly are 2 parts to it. The idea to remove ANY regionals, and then the hard decision that they could only 'afford' to run the Majors in NA.

If HCS esports were healthier, they would've done one or more Majors in EU - and if they manage to be healthy in the future, it will happen.
(Even though the won't do regionals, they will want still to do an overseas all-region Major).

[somber swift]

Not that I know of, but a few people have put out video tutorials.

But there's this, @weary ginkgo https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/rfepv8/halo_infinite_map_callouts/

[abstract herald]

1.) They didn't want to do ANY region specific tournaments anymore in year 2. This is because they felt having the top teams from the whole world compete at every LAN is the best product possible. This includes removal of NA teams only regionals, keep in mind.

I understand Point 2), it makes sense.

But the first point makes literally no sense.

Regional lans don't replace any Major or Global Invitational. It's a supplementary event to bring top teams of each region to compete against each other.
There'll still be 3 Majors, with or without Regional lans.
Regional lans helped to keep the regions alive, and to enable to top teams of the region to play against each other in lan (and that's something Majors don't enable to)

If you want to bring (back) huge orgs to EU Halo, I'm thinking of :

• Team Liquid
• Team BDS
• Fnatic
• KCorp
• G2 Esports
  etc...

You need to have complete regional circuits : including 2 or 3 regional lans, 2 or 3 online supers, bring back Pro Series and regular Open Series

if you have a big circuit like this, the orgs will come, and I assure you they'll come

[somber swift]

The important part of point 2 (lack of $$ available) also plays a factor in point 1.

It costs a lot of money to put on a LAN, any LAN.

They saw viewership and engagement, and participation numbers from the EU MX and ANZ events and found it didn't pull enough of a global viewership audience to justify the cost of running them.

So, they want the NA viewers to care more about every single LAN. How do they accomplish this?
By having NA players (and the whole world by extension) playing in every single LAN.

[abstract herald]

bc of the location

in EU, if they had chosen London or Paris, they would have brought 2x more teams, 4x more visitors, 2x more viewers

Valencia wasn't the good location choice

[somber swift]

yes, that's true

[somber swift]

They only chose Valencia, because it fit into the existing framework and timeline of the Dreamhack being run at that time.

They needed a tournament operator partner to pull it off

and Dreamhack was already scheduled to be happening then, in Valencia

It becomes a LOT more complicated for 343 to run tournaments outside of English speaking countries.

they need someone local to do it

[abstract herald]

yeah i know i know

[somber swift]

I think if 343/HCS had more $$ available, they would probably run regionals again at a smaller scale.

But they've made an analysis that they think it's more exciting and better return of investment to run all Majors to include teams from every region.

at the end of the day, we're still kinda lucky we have these regions involved.

Look at COD - their CDL is only in Canada US.

[abstract herald]

I have designed a circuit format for 2024

[somber swift]

hold up

[abstract herald]

I'm sending it to you in private message, but it should be like this

PRIZING :
NA : $1,940,850
EU : $463,800
MX : $371,750
ANZ : $265,400
TOTAL : $3,041,800

NA :
HCS Open SERIES (Weekly Sunday) : $500
HCS 2K Open SERIES (Monthly SUNDAY) : $2,000
HCS OPEN QUALIFIERS (SUNDAY)
HCS PRO SERIES (weekly Wednesday) : $1,500
HCS 4K PRO SERIES (Monthly Wednesday) : $4,000
HCS FFA SERIES (bi-weekly Monday) : $250
HCS FFA Qualifiers (Monday)
HCS DOUBLE SERIES (bi-weekly Monday) : $150
HCS Online Supers (Every SPLIT) : $50,000
HCS Majors (every SPLIT) : $250,000
HCS World Championship : $1,000,000

EU :
HCS Open SERIES (Weekly Sunday) : $400
HCS 2K Open SERIES (Monthly SUNDAY) : $2,000
HCS OPEN QUALIFIERS (SUNDAY)
HCS PRO SERIES (weekly Wednesday) : $1,000
HCS 4K PRO SERIES (Monthly Wednesday) : $4,000
HCS FFA SERIES (bi-weekly Monday) : $200
HCS FFA Qualifiers (Monday)
HCS DOUBLE SERIES (bi-weekly Monday) : $100
HCS Online Supers (Every SPLIT) : $25,000
HCS Regional lan Finals (every SPLIT) : $75,000
HCS GLOBAL Invitational : $125,000

MX :
HCS Open SERIES (Weekly Sunday) : $300
HCS 2K Open SERIES (Monthly SUNDAY) : $2,000
HCS OPEN QUALIFIERS (SUNDAY)
HCS PRO SERIES (weekly Wednesday) : $750
HCS 4K PRO SERIES (Monthly Wednesday) : $4,000
HCS FFA SERIES (bi-weekly Monday) : $150
HCS FFA Qualifiers (Monday)
HCS DOUBLE SERIES (bi-weekly Monday) : $50
HCS Online Supers (Every SPLIT) : $20,000
HCS Regional lan Finals (every SPLIT) : $50,000
HCS GLOBAL Invitational : $125,000

ANZ :
HCS Open SERIES (Weekly Sunday) : $200
HCS 2K Open SERIES (Monthly SUNDAY) : $2,000
HCS OPEN QUALIFIERS (SUNDAY)
HCS PRO SERIES (weekly Wednesday) : $500
HCS 4K PRO SERIES (Monthly Wednesday) : $4,000
HCS FFA SERIES (bi-weekly Monday) : $100
HCS FFA Qualifiers (Monday)
HCS DOUBLE SERIES (bi-weekly Monday) : $50
HCS Online Supers (Every SPLIT) : $10,000
HCS Regional lan Finals (every SPLIT) : $25,000
HCS GLOBAL Invitational : $125,000

With :

NA :

• 3 Online Supers
• 3 Majors
• HWC

EU :

• 3 Online Supers
• 3 Majors
• 1 Global Invitational

MX :

• 3 Online Supers
• 3 Majors
• 1 Global Invitational

ANZ :

• 3 Online Supers
• 3 Majors
• 1 Global Invitational

=> 4 Lans + 3 Supers in every region

all those fit with year1 HCS budget, around 3M $

[somber swift]

I'm sure that would be fantastic, but I don't think they'll have the funding for it. I don't see their budget staying the same or increasing - rather it's likely decreasing.
Also, they explicitly said the the Pro Series was not successful. Not even in NA.

[abstract herald]

with some special tournaments like :

• HCS Open Series (classic)
• HCS 2K Open Series : $2000
• HCS Pro Series (classic)
• HCS 4K Pro Series : $4000
• HCS FFA Series (classic)
• HCS Double Series (2v2)

[somber swift]

They also said that the Online Supers were not achieving their intended purpose either

In any region

[abstract herald]

it was not because how they run it

every AAA competitive game have pro circuit and challenger circuit

if HCS does not have Pro Circuit back in 2024, Top Orgs won't come

also my Pro Circuit format is quite different

because there'll be only :

• 8 HCS Pro Series / year
• 4 HCS 4K Pro Series / year

[somber swift]

you're missing the point of why it didn't work

[abstract herald]

bc of how they run it

[somber swift]

They want all tournaments except for invitationals to be Open to ANY players.

of course, Pros will still get best seeding etc. but they don't want exclusive Pro Series anymore.

[abstract herald]

HCS don't want.
Top Orgs want.
Community want.

that's not how it works

Idk if you're following other games esport

[somber swift]

How did they run it that made it didn't work then?

[abstract herald]

but every AAA game has its own pro circuit

idk any other game, except Halo, which has not a pro circuit

[somber swift]

Because in year 1, the pro players didn't care to be bothered to play in them, and the viewers didn't really care to watch either

[abstract herald]

that's the problem

[somber swift]

but what was the specific problem

[abstract herald]

my format is different :

• 8 HCS Pro Series / year => $1500 NA / $1000 EU / $750 MX / $500 ANZ
• 4 HCS 4K Pro Series / year => $4000

with HCS Open Series => 1000 points / player
HCS 2K Open Series => 2000 points / player
HCS Pro Series => 2000 points / players
HCS 4K Pro Series => 4000 points / players

• those pro series will be used for the 3 Online Supers / year in each region

top teams won't miss 4* $4000 = $16,000

=> Also it should be an obligation in Partnership to get teams competing in Pro Circuit, because they are PARTNERED PRO teams (except if one player can't make it, or isn't available, or emergency or something else you know)

[somber swift]

What was the specific problem with the Pro Series in Year 1?

[abstract herald]

And viewers will come if they advertise about it on social medias

[abstract herald]

They didn't reach their expectations in numbers

and i just explained how to fix it

[somber swift]

you said there was a problem with how they run it.

What was the problem or the mistake they made with running the Pro Series in year 1?

[abstract herald]

With this new Pro Circuit format, teams will compete, and people will come

[somber swift]

brb

[abstract herald]

making wrong choice, it should have been an obligation for pro teams to compete in, they should have advertised more etc...

• in partnership, they should "force" (i don't have the good word in english) the orgs to advertise on social medias every tournament they compete in (online or lan)

so they'll reach more people

[somber swift]

Obligated partnered teams to compete is not healthy.

That's like providing a free entry into the tournament.

Would you really want Fnatic getting a free spot in the Pro Series?
No - they were awful.

EVERYONE would be upset about that

That's like doing a Franchise league - something Halo fans don't want

[abstract herald]

i'm not talking of a franchise league

I'm talking of orgs using of their visibility to promote HCS Pro Circuit

[somber swift]

that's "Like" doing a franchise league

You cannot guarantee a partnered team an official spot in the Pro Series ONLY because they are a partnered team>

Every team should NEED to earn their place.

[somber swift]

orgs should be using their visibility to Promote HCS in general anyways.

I don't remember the last time I saw a tweet from C9 though

[abstract herald]

I'm not guaranteeing them a spot

Pro Series will be top16 teams from each region (so non-partnered teams can be in Pro Series)

but i'm telling you, if they are qualified to Pro Series, they need to play, they have to

and they have to use their visibility to promote the Pro Circuit

that's all what I'm saying

[somber swift]

yeah, you can't force someone to sign up for a tournament that they don't want to participate in.
That's definitely not going to work.

Instead, you listen and understand why those teams didn't want to participate, and make adjustments.

Which they now have, they eliminated the pro series, made it only 2ks and 4ks, and made the online points matter more.

This incentivizes teams to participate, instead of forcing them to.

and it worked, only the first 2 2ks didn't have the full partnered teams.

[abstract herald]

you can unpartner teams

[somber swift]

not a healthy way to run things

[abstract herald]

Pro Circuit Participation should be something on their partnership contract

[abstract herald]

not a healthy way to not participate too

[abstract herald]

My format is even better

[somber swift]

no, forcing the teams to sign up for a 2k or 4k tournament or else they 'lose their partnership' is a negative way to run things.

Incentives are more effective than punishments.

and their approach in year 2 worked

the teams signed up for them now

[abstract herald]

fines can be better, you're right

or points loss

[somber swift]

no not good either

[somber swift]

no not good either.

[abstract herald]

and is it good to not compete ? to not give visibility to the circuit you're winning money from?

use your brain mate

[somber swift]

that's not how contracts are set up, and it's not healthy for the league.

Maybe at the end of the season, HCS would evaluate all partnerships and think if those teams met the expectation for participation or not...

But you can't go around kicking a team out of partnership, or fining them, or deducting points, just because they miss a 2k....

that's CRAZY

What team would EVER want to partner with you if that was looming over their heads...?

instead - you need to make the incentives for participating SO GOOD that the teams would be crazy to miss the 2k.

[abstract herald]

1. it's not a league
2. What's the point in being partner if you don't even compete in the Pro Circuit ?
   Making only lans ? Ok, let's see these partner teams 6 times a year (3 majors, 2 globals, 1 world)

[somber swift]

incentives>penatlies

[somber swift]

what's the point of competing in the pro circuit if there's no benefit to them?

incentives>penalties

[abstract herald]

Points / Money / Seedings / Qualifications to Online Supers

that's why my format is the best

[somber swift]

clearly, the Pro Circuit format in year 1 didn't offer good enough incentives.

Which is why they changed the format, and benefits, for year 2.

[abstract herald]

in every other games, pro teams compete in the pro circuit

[abstract herald]

there's no pro circuit in year2

they removed it

[somber swift]

you missed me writing "which is why they changed the format"

pro series didn't work.

[abstract herald]

let me correct you then : 'which is why they removed it"*

[somber swift]

players didn't care, and viewers didn't either.

[abstract herald]

oh really ?

[somber swift]

no, they changed the format

[abstract herald]

removed pro circuit*

[tame sandal]

They removed Pro Circuit because it wasn't attractive enough, that's changing the format.
Why is this convo going in circles?

[abstract herald]

viewers didn't care hmmm?????

NA Pro Series Week 1 = 266.1k views
NA Pro Series Week 2 = 231.8k views
NA Pro Series Week 3 = 208.3k views
NA Pro Series Week 4 = 244k views
NA Pro Series Week 5 = 96.2k views
NA Pro Series Week 6 = 92.8k views
NA Pro Series Week 7 = 116.8k views

What did you except from weekly tournaments ? To get 500k views ?

200/250k views was already awesome considering the game state at this time

IT WAS CLEARLY ATTRACTIVE

something happened between week 4 and 5 and people start loosing interest, because of the game state

not because of the circuit

[somber swift]

Goal:
HCS wants to run semi-weekly style online tournaments for a handful of HCS points.

Year 1 Format to achieve the Goal:
Open and Pro Series

This format didn't work.

Year 2 Format:
Open Series for 2K points, with a fully open bracket, and Open Series for 4K points, which have a component where you play an open qualifier bracket and then into Pools with top teams which are similar to the 'pro series' ending in a bracket.

Please don't argue about english word definitions with me.

[abstract herald]

it's at this same moment, that in Europe, we went from 100+ teams in Open Series to only 40 teams in Open Series

so no, you're wrong, it was attractive, people were watching it

the only problem at this moment was the game state

not the pro circuit state

[abstract herald]

Year 1 format DID WORK

[somber swift]

I dunno man.
They changed the format of online weekly tournaments, but he won't admit it.
Just because they have a different name.

[abstract herald]

Do you want we compare views numbers from Year 1 Pro Series to Year 2 HCS 4K ?

just to show you, how well it was working in year 1 ?

@somber swift ?

[somber swift]

no need

My point is they changed the format

[abstract herald]

okay, so you admit Y1 Pro Series were bringing more views thant Y2 HCS 4K

[somber swift]

No

[abstract herald]

but you're still saying it wasn't working

[abstract herald]

so you want me to check for you, ok

[tame sandal]

Keep it respectful, Vaktor.

[somber swift]

no, I don't

My point is that they changed the format, because they way they were running them wasn't achieving the goals they had

[abstract herald]

why he is giving false information then ?

These are the official numbers :
NA Pro Series Week 1 = 266.1k views
NA Pro Series Week 2 = 231.8k views
NA Pro Series Week 3 = 208.3k views
NA Pro Series Week 4 = 244k views
NA Pro Series Week 5 = 96.2k views
NA Pro Series Week 6 = 92.8k views
NA Pro Series Week 7 = 116.8k views

HCS 4K Series aren't bringing enough views

so FACTS ARE : 4K Series are LESS attractive than Pro Series

[somber swift]

not giving false information - stop extrapolating things I am not saying.

[abstract herald]

and those are facts

[somber swift]

check yourself before you interpret incorrectly

[somber swift]

this is what I'm saying

nowhere did I say that year 2 are doing better viewers

so don't infer that

[abstract herald]

AshamanND (about Pro Series) :
"This format didn't work."

Facts/Twitch Views => False information

[somber swift]

By HCS's standards - the format didn't work

[abstract herald]

so no i'm not wrong, you did say it

[abstract herald]

and by HCS's standards : HCS 4K are even worse

[somber swift]

you would make a terrible scientist, but a great advertiser

[abstract herald]

so what's the best ? Bringing back something quite good, or something worse ?

[abstract herald]

I'm studying sciences, and i'd be better than you'll ever be in sciences

sciences have nothing to do here

[abstract herald]

and by HCS's standards : HCS 4K are even worse !!!

[tame sandal]

Can you two stop with the insults?

[somber swift]

I think I'd rather just stop this conversation. It's not possible to reason.

Take care.

[tame sandal]

Yes please, I'd prefer that

No one is right, no one wins.

Next topic.

[abstract herald]

not insults. Just i'm studying Pharmaceutical Chemistry and Pharmacy (sciences in general).

While he's working in another thing (it doesn't mean, it's not better btw), so yeah sciences is my subject, I know it (nothing insulting here)

[tame sandal]

In my book, this sentence falls as an insult. If you've got any issue with it, you can take it up to modmail.

[abstract herald]

😦

[winged cradle]

https://tenor.com/view/brunna-goncalves-xoxobru-point-up-smile-gif-17540680

[candid badger]

Will starboard be at dreamhack?

[somber swift]

nope, not in HCS maps - just for ranked

[winged cradle]

because you aren't moving on, Vaktor. Take the hint.

[abstract herald]

stop it

[candid badger]

rip

[somber swift]

who knows though, maybe one day if it plays well in the ranked playlist, it'll make it into HCS rotation

[candid badger]

Can't wait for plaza either.

[somber swift]

was that mentioned it'll be in HCS?

[abstract herald]

😦 good night

[candid badger]

Mostly for ranked but if it's in hcs that's a huge win

[somber swift]

it was mentioned to be coming to ranked eventually?

[candid badger]

Yes it was. On that note, what is the max number of maps they want in the ranked and hcs playlist?

[somber swift]

I don't think there's a hard cut off for maps but certainly they don't want it to become completely bloated to the point where you go forever without seeing a particular map/mode combo

[tall mural]

Reading 180 messages is fun lmao 💀

[tall mural]

Still don’t quite understand why they don’t have more than one ranked arena playlist, like halo 5 had slayer only and just regular arena (with objective game types). In infinite, it’s a roulette table.

[latent depot]

Space Ostrich

[tall mural]

💀

[somber swift]

Because the population tanked pretty early.

[copper thunder]

Daang you guys really argue for 2 hours straight on such silly subject. You'd make great couple 🤣

[torpid beacon]

You mean...not a great couple?

[tall mural]

lmao

[torpid beacon]

Because ranked Slayer has no skill. Hardcore slayer has skill

[somber swift]

aside from that though, H5 still had 4-5 other ranked playlists.

Infinite doesn't have the population, or gamemodes, to support that.

Currently, in it's 'retirement phase' Halo 5 has the following ranked playlists:
Slayer - Infinite doesn't because of population
Team Arena - Infinite has this
2v2 Competitive -rotational in Infinite because of population
SWAT - social in Infinite
Elimination - doesn't exist in Infinite
Free-For-All - rotational in infinite because of population

Of course, we could argue 'why does halo 5 still have them all since that games' population is even lower'?
That's because for Infinite, they REALLY want to prioritize low search times due to it being the most current game and needing to provide the 'best experience' to players.
They're not concerned about wait times in H5 anymore - anyone playing H5 is willing to wait now.

[coarse cradle]

--> Dead Game <---

[thorny crescent]

this channel is for discussing the halo championship series. if you want to give constructive feedback regarding the games, please use a more appropriate channel

[gloomy bridge]

^ unoriginal cringe ^

[noble field]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen so many messages in this channel in between visits. Whoa.

[quiet prairie]

https://twitter.com/HCS/status/1659003453006553090
the pools

[tame sandal]

https://twitter.com/HCS/status/1659003453006553090

Halo Esports (@HCS)

Pools are locked. 🔒

Join us Friday 6/2 as the best @Halo Infinite teams fight for Bracket Play at #HCSDallas23!

📅 June 2-4
📺 https://t.co/e5eElehCyu

Likes

436

Twitter · May 18, 2023, 1:10 AM

[quiet prairie]

No going to recomment them... I'm still disappointed of how EU is handle

[tall mural]

SSG got it easy

[noble field]

Why do you think Optic was salty about not being the 1st seed? 😂

[quiet prairie]

Quadrant is crying (not literally)...

[tall mural]

Lmao

[astral linden]

does anyone happen to have a specific clip of pro players talking really quickly to the point where we can't really understand them

[quiet prairie]

anyone from top level lol, to a non-english speaker even level C its almost nonsense

[somber swift]

google any of FormaL's comms - he typically speaks really fast.

[tiny sparrow]

just watch any listen in of past tournies lol

[somber swift]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1VfQJZnyks

Check this one out.

it has subtitles, but if you just listen and don't watch see if you can figure it all out.

[astral linden]

damn the censoring ruins it

but ty

[quiet prairie]

USA

[somber swift]

Literally just google "Formal HCS comms fast" and take your pick, that's how I found this one - there are others put out by him or Optic that aren't censored.

[astral linden]

ill do that, thanks

[somber swift]

enjoy!

[tall mural]

lmao

[torpid beacon]

does anyone know what the PC specs are for the mainstage?

[gloomy bridge]

idk my guess is 4090s

[torpid beacon]

well with AMD being a partner who helped develop Halo Infinite, I would assume they're running AMD CPU/GPU

[tame sandal]

MSI still does AMD?

Oh, looks like they do.

[abstract herald]

I noticed there is a :

• $5,000 4v4 Halo Infinite Tournament at DH Dallas (DreamHack BYOC)
• $1,000 FFA Halo Infinite Tournament at DH Dallas (DreamHack FreePlay)

Does someone know if we can rent full setup there (PCs, Monitors, ...) ?

[pearl nimbus]

MicroStar is partnered with both companies

They sell laptops, desktops, and GPUs with both companies’ products

and intel, too

most profitable to do so

[somber swift]

This is something from a year ago or so:
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHalo/comments/ugwqs3/hcs_kansas_city_pc_build_settings/

[abstract herald]

SIGN UP ! LET'S GET 32 TEAMS !!!

NAVI x EUROPAHALO SPRING SERIES OPEN#3 MAY 20 12:00 BST :
https://www.faceit.com/en/championship/58f9f18b-bede-4d56-964f-4c9a241f4140/NaVi x Europa Halo Spring Series Open 3
💰 QUALIFYING

ONLY 12 REGISTERED_

[abstract herald]

I hope it's already planned : https://twitter.com/EliteFalcon_YT/status/1659666026722672641

"With, Infection, Cross-Core coatings, Career Rank, Maps, Modes, New Battle Pass. New Equipment and whatever else 343 are cooking.

Halo Infinite Season 4 DESERVES to have a spot at the Xbox Games Showcase to show it all off to millions of players."

Season 4 showcase maybe at Dallas Global Invitational + Trailer E3-like and extended showcase during the Xbox Games Showcase would be the best thing for Halo Infinite right now

It'd relaunch the game and bring tons of new players (and I hope esports organisations too)

We need to get back to the 128 teams in Europe, like at Infinite launch

[somber swift]

https://twitter.com/HCS/status/1659686215967473667?t=PSxt45r2vbfNd86cNydYcw&s=19

Halo Esports (@HCS)

How to unlock each Ember Hex coating during @DreamHack Dallas!

JUN 2-4
Sidekick: Watch 2 hrs

JUN 2-4
AR: Watch CoStreamers 2 hrs

JUN 3-4
Commando: Watch 2 hrs

JUN 4
Bulldog: Watch 2 hrs

Twitter · May 19, 2023, 10:23 PM

[tall mural]

ember

[vale heath]

who should we be watching for this

[tall mural]

official hcs and the co streamers

[vale heath]

is there an official list of the twitch channels

[somber swift]

Yes, one sec

[vale heath]

thanks

[somber swift]

https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/dhdallas2023

There you go.
All info in that link

[urban pumice]

Is anyone else going to the Arlington major?

[gloomy bridge]

So optic losing to complexity

That a fluke? Lack of practice?

[somber swift]

it was online, let's see what happens in Dallas on LAN

[gloomy bridge]

hmm maybe, tripppy seemd checkd

i notice if tripppy struggles

luciid cant do his thing

[somber swift]

fair

[abstract herald]

https://twitter.com/ProjectStadium/status/1660000894304374786

[tame sandal]

https://twitter.com/ProjectStadium/status/1660000894304374786

STADIUM 🏟 (@ProjectStadium)

STADIUM SPARTAN SERIES SPLIT 2

We kick off tomorrow with our first tournament of Split 2!

🏁 MEGA CUP ONE - Sunday 21st May 12pm BST

🏆 $500 USDC + SSS Points

Register below now ⬇️
https://t.co/pP5PqHgDe1

Enter the STADIUM 🏟️

Twitter · May 20, 2023, 7:13 PM

[runic forum]

Es un campeonato o algo así?

[abstract herald]

It's an European Circuit organised by the EU organisation BLVKHVND with multiple tournaments ($15,000.00 USDC / USD Coins), it's crypto.

https://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/Portal:Tournaments
https://liquipedia.net/callofduty/Portal:Tournaments
https://liquipedia.net/valorant/Portal:Tournaments
https://liquipedia.net/rainbowsix/Portal:Tournaments
https://liquipedia.net/pubg/Portal:Tournaments
https://liquipedia.net/apexlegends/Portal:Tournaments
https://liquipedia.net/rocketleague/Portal:Tournaments
https://liquipedia.net/leagueoflegends/Portal:Tournaments

https://liquipedia.net/halo/Portal:Tournaments
I'm crying. I had not realised before, but we literally have the worst esport circuit ever 😭

We really need to bring back massively tournaments and lans :

• 3x Online Supers (4 regions) = 12
• 3x Regional Lans (4 regions) = 12
• 3x Global Invitationals
• 3x Majors
• Worlds

• Teams Online Cups (FaZe, SSG, Quadrant, NAVI, G1, but where are other teams?)

We're getting literally destroyed by every other competitive game 😢

• We need to bring massively new orgs to HCS, there are tons of organisations in Europe competing in Rainbow 6, Valorant, Counter Strike...

But on Halo we only have 4.

Same for MX/ANZ, only 4 pro teams, while there are tons of orgs competing in other competitive games

that's sad

[abstract herald]

Please bring in 2024 :

• 3 Online Supers per region

• 3 Regional Lans per region

• 3 Global Invitationals

• 3 Majors

• Worlds

• HCS Open Series Weekly (all the year and not only the first 3 months of the circuit)

• HCS Pro Series Weekly (please bring it back, we need a Pro Circuit)

• HCS 4K Series Monthly (all the year, and with $4,000, a real 4K, not only 3 per year : we only got 3 HCS 4K this year, only 3!!!)

Halo Esports is clearly dying and no one is caring about it

[runic forum]

Ahh, ok, thanks you

[tall mural]

that is one long season

[torpid beacon]

They won't have enough money. The last time there were 12 Major LAN was in 2005.

So it's not going to happen

Nobody cares about because of halo Infinite. You keep on ignoring this. Halo 3 and 5 had the same level of tournaments as halo Infinite is currently having but people actually cared about the game. And the money was the cherry on top. Halo Infinite esports is only the cherry

[abstract herald]

I'm just comparing with what the other games have

[torpid beacon]

HCS isn't going to compete with other esports when halo Infinite is it's main game

[abstract herald]

they should be

If they don't Halo esports will just die

[torpid beacon]

halo Esports won't die. When they returned to halo 3 in 2019 they had the most teams competing since 2012 MLG Columbus. The first event of the 2019 season is HCS 3rd biggest event. Halo esports is dying currently because Halo infinite is their main game. HCS Raleigh had 230 teams now we're down to 77. Compare this to which Halo 3 had 250 teams for it's first event and then a year later MLG Meadowland 2009 it had 272. Halo 3 Esports had actually grown in a year after all the hype was gone

[abstract herald]

no Infinite isn't the issue

[torpid beacon]

HCS Raleigh had 230 teams now we're down to 77. Compare this to which Halo 3 had 250 teams for it's first event and then a year later MLG Meadowland 2009 it had 272. Halo 3 Esports had actually grown in a year after all the hype was gone

[abstract herald]

organisations like Fnatic or XSET don't care if it's on H3, H4, Reach or Infinite

they care about the circuit, the funds invested and the visibility

since the circuit is bad (only 6 lans), they won't come

[torpid beacon]

Other Esports will care like Denial and Elevate

[abstract herald]

how many followers they have?

[abstract herald]

esports organisations care only about the circuit and the scene state : Is it worth it to invest ? or not?

And orgs won't invest in a 6 lans circuit with no online major tournament

Look at those :
https://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/Portal:Tournaments
https://liquipedia.net/callofduty/Portal:Tournaments
https://liquipedia.net/valorant/Portal:Tournaments
https://liquipedia.net/rainbowsix/Portal:Tournaments
https://liquipedia.net/pubg/Portal:Tournaments
https://liquipedia.net/apexlegends/Portal:Tournaments
https://liquipedia.net/rocketleague/Portal:Tournaments
https://liquipedia.net/leagueoflegends/Portal:Tournaments

they have literally 20x times more cups and lans than us

• they have more viewers, a bigger fanbase, more visibility

Look at the CS:GO Major in Paris and compare it with HCS Majors

they're literally destroying us

[torpid beacon]

Call of duty only for NA. You realize that people actually care about those games not halo Infinite

[abstract herald]

and it's not because of the game, it's because of the scene

[abstract herald]

only NA, but it has a better scene than us

[torpid beacon]

CSGO is literally the biggest esports out there by far

[abstract herald]

Look at their Challengers circuit

[abstract herald]

yeah and HCS is the smallest one by far

and that's the issue

COD :
Since the beginning of 2023 Circuit :

• 5 Majors (monthly) : $500,000 prize pool (Total =2.5M)
• 12 Challengers Cup (bi-weekly) : $2,500 prize pool (Total = 30k)
• 4 Elite (monthly) : $50,000 prize pool (Total = 200k)

HCS since the beginning of 2023 circuit :

• HCS Charlotte Open : $2,000
• HCS Charlotte Qualifier : $0
• Charlotte Major : $250,000
• 2x HCS 4K : $2,000 (Total = 4k)
• FaZe Online : $15,000
• Quadrant Online : $15,000
• 3x HCS 2K : $2,000 (Total = 6k)

Look at the difference

Their Pro Circuit is better + Their challengers circuit is better (we don't even have pro circuit and challengers circuit : now everything is open series, but no longer pro series)

[abstract herald]

• they can generate money if they extend their budget/funds from microsoft by doing a bigger circuit (the biggest they ever did) + bringing new orgs and signing them into the partnership program.

=> So they'll attract tons of new players and fanbase (with events full of supporters like the Paris CS:GO Major), so it'll bring more people

=> So they will sell more visitors tickets, more team tickets, bringing millions of viewers

If they want orgs and people to invest in the game, they need to invest first

that's what we call a return on investment

HCS can bring millions of fans, sell thousands and thousands of visitor tickets during their Regionals, Globals, Majors, but they need to invest more and bring new teams

=> Like, let's imagine they invest $20,000,000.00 (20M of dollars) for 2024, doing :
- 3 Regional Lans in EU/MX/ANZ = 9 Regional Lans
- 3 Global Invitationals : 1 in EU / 1 in MX / 1 in ANZ
- 3 Majors in NA
- Worlds in NA

- 3 Online Supers in NA/EU/MX/ANZ = 12 Online Supers
- HCS Open Series Weekly
- HCS 2K Open Series Monthly = $2,000
- HCS Pro Series Weekly
- HCS 4K Pro Series Monthly = $4,000

+ Bringing tons of new esports organisations :
NA :
*- Optic Gaming

• FaZe Clan
• Spacestation Gaming
• Cloud 9
• Sentinels
• Complexity
• Gamers First
• Native Gaming
• Shopify Rebellion
• Proton Gaming
• Status Quo*
• XSET
• Team War
• Pioneers
• Oxygen Esports
• Eastern Media
• Built By Gamers
• The Guard
• Torrent
• UYU

EU :
*- Quadrant

• NAVI
• Jlingz
• Aw0babobs*
• G2 Esports
• Fnatic
• Team Liquid
• Team Vitality
• Team BDS
• Giants
• AcendClub
• VexedGaming
• Team Heretics
• SK Gaming
• Karmine Corp
• Gentle Mates

MX :
*- Luminosity

• Six Karma
• Cintanegra
• Alpha Esports*
• Pittsburgh Knights
• Team Cruelty
• Timber Esports
• KRU Esports
• Leviatan
• Fusion
• LOUD
• Red Canids
• FURIA
• Fluxo
• INTZ
• KABUM! Esports

ANZ :
*- Vertex Esports

• Divine Mind
• Mindfreak
• 95X Esports*
• Dire Wolves
• ChiefsESC
• Ground Zero
• Kanga Esports
• Mammoth Esports
• PentanetGG
• Team Bliss
• Execration

[abstract herald]

These are just examples of Top Organisations from those 4 regions.
Imagine investing 20M.
Doing this big HCS Circuit.
Bringing those teams (20 Pro Teams NA, 16 Pro Teams EU, 16 Pro Teams MX, 12 Pro Teams ANZ).

Imagine the visibility you will bring to the circuit and the number of visitors you will bring to each lan ?

You could bring literally at least 50,000 visitors per Regional Lan.

And even 100,000 per Global Invitational or Major.

And you would get millions of new viewers and players.

50,000 visitors * 40$ lan entry = $2,000,000 generated per Regional Lan

100,000 visitors * 40$ lan entry = $4,000,000 generated per Global Invitational or Major

250,000 visitors *100$ worlds entry = $25,000,000 generated for Worlds

Now imagine the thousands of viewers you would get on Pro Series and 4K Pro Series ? And the millions you would get on Online Supers ?

Last year, HCS Pro Series were making between 150k and 250k views on twitch, but imagine with all these new organisations and this new circuit ?

HCS need to invest AND COMPETE with the Top Competitive Games

You could generate millions by investing and bring the top worldwide organisations to Halo.

[abstract herald]

https://twitter.com/Spartan/status/1660110578432593921
SEN Spartan :

"Assuming HCS has a season 3, global invitationals need to be 20-24 teams.

Actually a few teams that deserve to be there that won't be. Especially when we're expected to qualify in ONLINE Halo Infinite tournaments where the netcode is made of bubble gum and no anti-cheat."

And he is completely right

Global Invitationals, since there's no Open Bracket, should be 24 Teams :

• 4 Pools of 6
  => Top4 of each pool qualify in Winner Bracket (Top16 Teams)
  => Top5 of each pool qualify in Looser Bracket (Top17/20 Teams)
  => Top6 of each pool eliminated

This should be 24 teams since we have :
EU (4 Pro Teams) :

• Quadrant
• NAVI
• Aw0babobs
• Jlingz Esports

MX (4 Pro Teams) :

• Luminosity
• Six Karma
• Cintanegra
• Alpha Esports

ANZ (4 Pro Teams) :

• Divine Mind
• Mindfreak
• Vertex Esports
• 95X Esports

NA (12 Pro Teams) :

• Optic Gaming
• FaZe Clan
• Spascestation Gaming
• Native Red
• Complexity
• Gamers First
• Native White
• The Avengers
• Shopify Rebellion
• Sentinels
• Proton Gaming
• Mantra

(in reality we have even 16 Pro Teams in NA) :

• Cloud 9
• Status Quo
• Locked
• Darkest Hour
  So it could even be a 28 Teams event (so every pro team is invited)

https://twitter.com/Oppressss/status/1660289450247692290
https://twitter.com/RhanakinEU/status/1660111033921404929
https://twitter.com/NoiTciLFnoK/status/1660119516150374400

Actually @karmic hare or staff from HCS team should take a look at this channel 👍

[supple kettle]

Please don't tag 343 employees. See #rules-and-guidelines for more information.

[abstract herald]

Oh Iratus, how can we reach HCS team ?

Can't find how to contact them via the website or the discord?

https://twitter.com/SnakeBiteFPS/status/1660316937757372418
https://twitter.com/SnakeBiteFPS/status/1660317586699976705
right tweet from SnakeBite too, comparing the CS:GO scene (with the Paris Major) and HCS scene

as I said previously, HCS need to invest more, massively more

more lans, more online supers, bigger lans, more teams, more orgs, more viewers, more visitors, more players

https://twitter.com/CommonCD/status/1660110661169426434

[abstract herald]

ROADMAP :

DOUBLE SERIES :
Open 2v2 Double Elimination

• NA : Weekly : $200
• EU : Weekly : $150
• MX : Weekly : $100
• ANZ : Weekly : $50

FFA SERIES :
Open FFA

• NA : Weekly : $250
• EU : Weekly : $200
• MX : Weekly : $150
• ANZ : Weekly : $100

OPEN SERIES :
Open Double Elimination

• NA : Weekly : $500
• EU : Weekly : $400
• MX : Weekly : $300
• ANZ : Weekly : $200

2K OPEN SERIES :
Open Double Elimination

• NA : Weekly : $2,000
• EU : Weekly : $2,000
• MX : Weekly : $2,000
• ANZ : Weekly : $2,000

PRO SERIES :
16 Teams Double Elimination

• NA : Weekly : $1,500
• EU : Weekly : $1,000
• MX : Weekly : $750
• ANZ : Weekly : $500

4K PRO SERIES :
16 Teams Pools (4 Pools of 4 Teams) + 4K Qualifier

• NA : Monthly : $4,000
• EU : Monthly : $4,000
• MX : Monthly : $4,000
• ANZ : Monthly : $4,000

ONLINE SUPER :
16 Teams Pools (4 Pools of 4 Teams) + Open Bracket

• NA : 3x Online Supers : $50,000
• EU : 3x Online Supers : $25,000
• MX : 3x Online Supers : $20,000
• ANZ : 3x Online Supers : $10,000

REGIONAL LAN :
16 Teams Pools (4 Pools of 4 Teams) + Open Bracket

• EU : 3x Regional Lans : $75,000
• MX : 3x Regional Lans : $50,000
• ANZ : 3x Regional Lans : $25,000

GLOBAL INVITATIONAL :
28 Teams Pools (4 Pools of 7 Teams)

• EU : 1x Global Invitational : $125,000
• MX : 1x Global Invitational : $125,000
• ANZ : 1x Global Invitational : $125,000

MAJORS :
20 Teams Pools (4 Pools of 5 Teams) + Open Bracket

• NA : 3x Majors : $250,000

WORLDS :
24 Teams Pools (4 Pools of 6 Teams)

• NA : 1x Worlds : $1,000,000

[tall mural]

I’m ngl I don’t think hcs has the resources to do that

And the money

[abstract herald]

They have them + They will generate even more with the lans

[tall mural]

how long is this… season of yours?

A year? 2 years?

[abstract herald]

A year

[tall mural]

also imo online supers aren’t a good idea until the game gets fixed

too much money on the line for an unstable online experience

[abstract herald]

9/10 months actually (since they are break/off-season periods)

[abstract herald]

nah it was super great idea

I can assure you the pro players/teams did love it

[tall mural]

snip3downs rocket disintegrating

[gloomy bridge]

nah its nice to see teams scrap

[raw hound]

i'm sure pitching an increase in prize funding from $2M to $20M will go over super smoothly with MSFT execs

[abstract herald]

I'm not talking of increasing prize pool from $2M to $20M

i'm talking of increasing HCS investment from $7M to $20M

Because I've calculated HCS is investing between $7M - $10M for their annual circuit

So I'm asking them to double it : x2
with a prize pool of $3M or $3.5M (like year1), just more LANs.

And More LANs = costs = more investment => that's why $20M

[raw hound]

gotcha. hefty increase tho

HCS is used as a marketing tool. need to prove that ROI from the investment for them to increase. gotta prove it with the budget you got

[somber swift]

This.

It's not time to increase the investment yet.
The game needs to continue to get it's legs under it before that ROI can be realized.

Maybe by the time HCS year 3 starts the game might be in better shape, but I fear the HCS year 3 budget would already be determined well in advance.

My hope is that we don't see a further reduction in Year 3 HCS - and perhaps a very modest increase.
However, given the attendance numbers for the online tournaments, I don't see it to be likely to have any increased budget for year 3.
Maintain this minimum is very important, then maybe if all the stars align a year 4 could be very solid>

H5 HCS did well going into it's final year of tournaments. Infinite can do well down the road too.

[tall mural]

Halo Infinite is already bigger than Halo 5 ever was

[somber swift]

Halo 5 had some large prize pools, and was still going strong even in 2018
https://www.esportsearnings.com/games/423-halo-5-guardians/largest-tournaments

[abstract herald]

No one will compete anymore in year 3 if there's no lan or major tournament (like online supers) back

ANZ are already 8 teams only

EU and MX will follow too

We already went from 32+ teams to 24- in EU

MX will fall soon to 16teams

then if it continues, those both regions will be at 8 teams next year

So no, it is time

except if they want, in their plans, to let the scene die

it may even be worth in 2024, because if you're not in the top4 EU/MX/ANZ, there's no point in competing

@somber swift I'm just starting thinking they planned the scene to be 4-teams only in EU/MX/ANZ for 2024

and if they continue, they'll reach their goal, and people won't come back in 2025

they made it, so they know they won't have to invest outside of NA, and maybe they did it, so they can send only EU Top2 (instead of top4), MX top1 (instead of top2) and ANZ top1 (instead of top3) in lans

[somber swift]

I'm trying to find a coherent list of HCS competitions in 2018, but everything I'm seeing is so confusing.

I distinctly remember Splyce winning a major competition, but it's not listed here:
https://halo-esports.fandom.com/wiki/Halo_Championship_Series

https://liquipedia.net/halo/Halo_Championship_Series/2018/Finals
https://liquipedia.net/halo/Halo_World_Championship/2018

Like, this is ridiculous - how are people supposed to follow an esport when you have such different nomenclature, and they don't even reference each other?

I'm really glad that it appears Infinite has done away with this split between HCS and HWC and just put them together...

[abstract herald]

it's still the same bro

there's no different nomenclatures

HCS = the whole circuit

HWC = Worlds = last event of the circuit

2018 had 4 HCS events :

• New Orleans
• London
• Atlanta (Finals)
• Worlds (HWC)

it's the same now with 3 HCS majors + HWC

[somber swift]

The problem is the HWC was before HCS in 2018

it makes no sense from an outsider's point of view

So no, it's not the same

[abstract herald]

bc it was based on 2017 events

but yeah, they changed it now and put it in october, so after the 3 Majors

but the format remains the same 3 major lans + worlds

[somber swift]

It wasn't really based on 2017 fully though, it had it's own set of qualifiers in early 2018, as detailed here:
https://dotesports.com/halo/news/2018-halo-world-championship-season-schedule-19554

[abstract herald]

yeah couldn't remember, it's qualifiers then, that's not the main point anyways

[somber swift]

My main point is that in the past, HWC and HCS had a lot more separation than they do now, and the 'world championship' used to happen in the Spring, and then HCS finals would happen in the fall.

Again, as someone coming from an outside perspective, this doesn't make a lot of sense.

[abstract herald]

i agree

But let's focus about 2023 HCS

and 2024 HCS

if they don't invest, it'll become a 4-team EU/MX/ANZ competing game

probably only 64 in NA

[somber swift]

I wanted to look up some history, and think about how things have been run in the past.
Then I ran into this issue of HWC and HCS being so disconnected before, and it hurt my brain, so I wanted to ask people here about it.

I'm SO GLAD they don't do it this way anymore

[abstract herald]

There'll be no ROI if they don't invest.

And there'll be nothing to invest in year4 (2025) if they don't invest in 2024

[somber swift]

My only point was that I didn't think the game itself was ready to receive the investment - but of course investment will be necessary for HCS to thrive.

I just don't think there's any point to market a product that isn't functioning properly.
Get it working first, then you increase marketing/budgets.

[abstract herald]

I swear if they are doing nothing in 2024 :

• NAVI will leave (EU)
• Aw0babobs will leave (EU)
• 95X Esports will leave (ANZ)
• Mindfreak will leave (ANZ)
• Six Karma will leave (MX)
• Cintanegra will leave (MX)
• Alpha Esports will leave (MX)
• Shopify Revellion will leave (NA)
• Proton Gaming will leave (NA)
• G1 and Native Gaming will leave if they don't get partnered (NA)

and this is not opinion, I invite you to join EU and ANZ discords

[somber swift]

I just don't think there's any point to market a product that isn't functioning properly.

[abstract herald]

what's not functioning properly ?

the game ? If you're waiting them to fix the bugs, we can still wait until 2035 mate

bugs aren't the issue

Organisations care about the scene and circuit state

they care if their investments will be worth it or not

they probably even don't know them and they don't follow the updates/patches

BOT can you warn me before deleting my messages, or sending it back to me in my dms so i can post it back without the word?

i'll start using effing* now

[abstract herald]

The circuit is ready to receive them, and it needs to

anyways that's not even a debate

if HCS does not expand their scene/circuit, the game is dead in 2024

[arctic quiver]

No, please don't do that either. No need to be creative with trying to bypass filters and no need to be swearing in civil conversation

[abstract herald]

I thought ef.... was the quite polite version of it?

[somber swift]

Remember, HCS players are part of the product, they are not the real consumer that earns 343 money.

HCS is a product, to be consumed by fans, and also to promote the game at large to the general playerbase.

At minimum, Infinite needs two things to be properly ready to be consumed by it's target audience:
-Meaningful improvement to desync
-Inclusion of the most commonly requested missing 'core features' to be 'content complete' (not counting new season BP and other cosmetics etc)

343 and MS have no business case to invest a larger amount of marketing dollars into HCS if it won't translate into profits elsewhere (either through viewership, or fan participation, skin purchcases, etc.)
It doesn't matter how good the HCS players are, how entertaining the HCS broadcasts are, or how much prize money is offered if the game isn't working well enough for the fans to want to spend money in it

As much as we both love HCS, it's not a money maker itself - it's a marketing tool for the greater game, and the greater game needs to convert HCS investment into fans spending money. That's more likely to occur if those two bullet points I mentioned above are managed.
In the meantime, HCS needs to do what it can, with the budget it has, to maintain itself. This should be HCS's focus for now, maintain while the game gets fixed.
Increase the budget later, and the players will come back - more prize $$ always brings out the players.

[abstract herald]

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HALO ESPORTS / HCS

At minimum, Infinite needs two things to be properly ready to be consumed by it's target audience:
-Meaningful improvement to desync
-Inclusion of the most commonly requested missing 'core features' to be 'content complete' (not counting new season BP and other cosmetics etc)

FALSE

343 and MS have no business case to invest a larger amount of marketing dollars into HCS if it won't translate into profits elsewhere (either through viewership, or fan participation, skin purchcases, etc.)
It doesn't matter how good the HCS players are, how entertaining the HCS broadcasts are, or how much prize money is offered if the game isn't working well enough for the fans to want to spend money in it

FALSE

As much as we both love HCS, it's not a money maker itself - it's a marketing tool for the greater game, and the greater game needs to convert HCS investment into fans spending money. That's more likely to occur if those two bullet points I mentioned above are managed.
In the meantime, HCS needs to do what it can, with the budget it has, to maintain itself. This should be HCS's focus for now, maintain while the game gets fixed.
Increase the budget later, and the players will come back - more prize $$ always brings out the players.

And no the players won't come back, and the orgs won't come back too

if you think they are then you know absolutely nothing about the scene, and about how esports work in general

@somber swift If HCS could invest to bring as many people as the CS:GO Paris Major brought for example, they'd make profit and generate money

[somber swift]

I strongly disagree with you.
I'm just going to log out now, because we will never agree, and we're just gonna argue with each other.
✌️

[abstract herald]

the Paris CS:GO Major brought 20300 visitors

$50 visitor ticket

20300 * $50 = $1M generated

that's numbers CS:GO do

[abstract herald]

That's the issue, you're talking about opinion when I try talking about facts

It's like me telling you : bacterias have no histones (fact).

And you're telling me : I don't agree, I think differently

Facts are :

If nothing is done :

• NAVI will leave (EU)
• Aw0babobs will leave (EU)
• 95X Esports will leave (ANZ)
• Mindfreak will leave (ANZ)
• Six Karma will leave (MX)
• Cintanegra will leave (MX)
• Alpha Esports will leave (MX)
• Shopify Revellion will leave (NA)
• Proton Gaming will leave (NA)
• G1 and Native Gaming will leave if they don't get partnered (NA)

those are facts

not opinions

That's the problem discussing with people, when they're non factual

The only thing which matter are facts. Organisations are societies, they try to expand themselves, to reach new public, new markets, to make money. They don't care at all about opinions, except if it concerns them and their image

[raw hound]

comp scene in a game is only as strong as the casual side of the game. you cant generate ROI out of thin air just because you invest more in HCS

i agree that the comp scene, especially outside of NA, need more $ to thrive. I think everybody would agree

but outside of donors (not even sure if HCS can accept donor $?) You're not going to see those $ from MSFT

[abstract herald]

You can if you bring the good orgs, the orgs that will fill the lans.
Like the CS:GO Major in Paris. Team Vitality has filled the AccorArena in Paris

20300 visitors with a $50 visitor ticket => $1M generated

[raw hound]

you dont make money from lans. even if orgs fill the lans. it costs more than you make to run them

[abstract herald]

because those orgs have a solid fanbase

[abstract herald]

wrong

[raw hound]

here is a thread from Adam Apicella that says so: https://twitter.com/MrAdamAp/status/1650879426484228099

[abstract herald]

I can affirm you, this is completely wrong

his thread talking mainly about LoL which is not sustainable for orgs

[raw hound]

do you have proof? or just your word? I am trusting Adam's word over yours rn

[abstract herald]

My word, since I'm not gonna reveal secret projects I'm working on

but if I can give you an example : all Dreamhack festivals generate profits

and you can check easily about it

[raw hound]

source?

[abstract herald]

you can ask DH admins very easily about it
and you can even check easily about it

[raw hound]

how can i check easily?

[abstract herald]

something called google

[raw hound]

i'm not going to google your point for you. please provide it for me.

[abstract herald]

Lmao. Let me google something for you

[abstract herald]

https://lazywise.com/intellectual-laziness-definition-and-common-causes/

[somber swift]

Does Dreamhack supply the prize money?

[raw hound]

thx bud. you got me @abstract herald

[abstract herald]

they have sponsors for all their festivals

[somber swift]

Who is providing the Prize money for Halo at Dreamhack?

[abstract herald]

it is not up to me to reveal things which have to remain secret

[abstract herald]

HCS

But i'm not talking of Halo lans, since Halo lans don't generate profits

[pearl nimbus]

Well then don’t expect others to try and unearth these claims? lmao??

[abstract herald]

i'm talking of lans like the CS:GO Major in Paris

[somber swift]

HCS =/ Tournament runner.

Tournament runner makes money.
HCS does not

[somber swift]

..............................................

[somber swift]

This is the first thing Vaktor has said that I agree with today, and validates my entire post here: #hcs-chat message

If a Halo LAN does not generate profits, then it must serve some other purpose.
I suggest that it's purpose is to market the game in general.

If that's the case, then I urge to read my linked post again.

[gloomy bridge]

infinite needs a relaunch for wut u want

to get the masses interested

big marketing push, ideally with royale

i dont think bigger prize pools will do it

[tall mural]

As someone who started watching Halo esports in 2021 with infinite, going back to the history and everything to get to know it better was extremely difficult

[gloomy bridge]

they could do recaps ig pre-match

past tournaments, couple highlights

that sorta thing, while ppl wait for first game

[tall mural]

right

[somber swift]

I'm working on a side project to make sense of it all

[tall mural]

This is speculation. It’s not set in stone this would happen; like, who would have imagined that C9 would return as a partnered org for year 2?

It’s clear C9 isn’t benefiting from being in the ecosystem anymore as they aren’t putting much effort into it.

[gloomy bridge]

i think stellur,ecosmith etc were 2pricey

c9 mightve been willin to pay them

if they won every tourney but they didnt

[tall mural]

I know that’s true

But they don’t have the resources as an org either, they’re too invested in CS, LoL and Valorant

[gloomy bridge]

fr