Balance Units First and Delay BS

[plain temple]

Faust straw when?

[zinc depot]

Who’s the last straw then

[solemn cloak]

i dont want newer players to fall out because none of the z2 balancing was changed

[burnt dragon]

We getting new player?

[solemn cloak]

basically no because the game is what it is

[zinc depot]

New players: hit level 50, where’s the content?
BFC grind is your content, have fun!

[solemn cloak]

my friend did not get past anything

[burnt dragon]

Maybe because the early game unit is so 🗑️

[solemn cloak]

yea that toow

balancing needs to happen everywhere

it should be happening rn

[zinc depot]

Now we can make early game trash and late game BFC simulator since any content is delayed for months

[solemn cloak]

but we prioritize short term things ig

[candid smelt]

clash royale when there is no way to even pay to progress

[solemn cloak]

i dont play clash

[burnt dragon]

😡

I skill diffed everyone there

[zinc depot]

Late game: you’re gonna BFC for 60 hours and you’re gonna enjoy it

[burnt dragon]

Ez pz

[candid smelt]

ok

[native robin]

I think they’re more focused on rebuilding the complete game before they make tweaks. That’s a valid strategy; All the units we have interact. We don’t even have pvp/occupations yet. Balance changes would affect those things. Trying to balance before then might be pointless in many cases.

[zinc depot]

BS? PvP? Nah those are months away

Rn you have BFC, better R6 all those units!

[solemn cloak]

the thing is if they go back and balance thats going to piss everyone off that invested into things

[pale egret]

theres that saying, right? dont let perfect be the enemy of good?

[burnt dragon]

Putting the grind on Grind Nations

[zinc depot]

Oh they might also get nerfed so better be ready to R6 more units too!

[earnest mango]

no, don't r6, what if they get nerfed?

[pale egret]

let them mald then lol

they knew the risks

[zinc depot]

Get ready to R6 all of them

[earnest mango]

just do nothing for months and see how it goes

[solemn cloak]

thats going to be all of you guys istg 😭

[pale egret]

madrona has literally stated that rebalancing already existing units is on the table

[solemn cloak]

please god remember this moment 🙏 🙏

[native robin]

We all remember how the game was. Nerfs would bother a lot of people anyway.

(So don’t nerf them)

[solemn cloak]

what 😭

we are going straight back to plasma only

[earnest mango]

no, we'll use something else for the frontline

plasma only sounds pretty bad

[native robin]

There are some exceptions that most people probably agree would need a nerf, realistically. But if nerfs are any significant part of the balancing strategy, that will irritate people and not fix the problem of having an awful lot of useless units.

[solemn cloak]

plasma tank front line

🙂

[earnest mango]

but that one isn't f2p

no need to nerf that one

[pale egret]

🤣

[solemn cloak]

yea i dont think plasma tank needs a nerf tbh

just artillery

[merry wind]

Nah it need nerf
Plasma tank 10 nanos
Everyone get one

[zinc depot]

Mauler does because it’s F2P

[earnest mango]

yeah

[zinc depot]

Heavier too

[native robin]

Make plasma tank f2p so we can nerf it

[zinc depot]

Make it cost 3 widgets to heal

[earnest mango]

that's what it costs to train

[pale egret]

dont forget to nerf trebs

768 dmg is too crazy even for 40 nanos

[earnest mango]

so naturally it should cost 10 widgets to train too

[zinc depot]

5 to train, 3 to heal

[solemn cloak]

trebs i dont think would need a nerf because the health is so low

[zinc depot]

Make the attack cost 10 nanos every time you use it

[earnest mango]

but you want to nerf plasma arty even if it's not as tanky as the plasma tank?

[solemn cloak]

that does not correlate to what iv said

[zinc depot]

Cryo should get a nerf too, freeze is broken

[earnest mango]

so PArty doesn't need a nerf?

[pale egret]

50% chance to have the attack reflected on your formation

[zinc depot]

Make it stun and reserve freeze to frostbite and ET

[merry wind]

Nooo it already got nerfed ( Stunt bug nerf )

[solemn cloak]

it does because nothing competes with it for artillery, trebuchet isnt even as good as mauler

[zinc depot]

Cryo gun turn into stun gun now

[solemn cloak]

i mean use cases are different

but for a BS is mainly the example

[zinc depot]

It’s F2P ofc it needs a nerf

PArty and Mauler should be weaker than brimstone obviously

[earnest mango]

yeah I get that part

but treb doesn't need a nerf then?

it's not consistent

[solemn cloak]

.

[zinc depot]

Remove raptor toss

[solemn cloak]

treb isnt a 1 unit solves all

[zinc depot]

Treb is fixed

[pale egret]

all hail the glorious brimstone corps

😤

[solemn cloak]

thats why it shouldnt be nerfed

mauler is, party is

[earnest mango]

neither is PArty, it can't frontline

[merry wind]

Brimstone represent xD

[zinc depot]

Neither is melee frag, it can’t hit infantry

[solemn cloak]

i mean like for the artillery category

[solid island]

Try maulers only against brutal raiders with a brawler and tell me they solve everything 🤣

They don't

[zinc depot]

Actually now that I think about it ranged is not super great vs armor

[pale egret]

this is animal abuse

[zinc depot]

Ranged and melee frag are both fine guys :3

[solemn cloak]

it for the most part as a backline unit is a 1 solves all

[zinc depot]

They’re not a solve-all

[native robin]

Mech artillery, demoman, treb does compete with it, mammoth arty kinda sometimes, there are tons of indirect fire units that compete with it situationally. PArty just happens to be more of a generalist. So nerf PArty? Or just…make some other competitive units better?

[solid island]

Do you know what solve all means?

[merry wind]

Mauler is 1 solve all

[solid island]

I don't think you do

[earnest mango]

I can see that

it solves all cases except the ones it doesn't solve

[zinc depot]

[burnt dragon]

Solving my life crisis

[solemn cloak]

what encounter does mauler not work in backline for asides from bosses

[burnt dragon]

[merry wind]

Im not delulu enough for this
Lemme drink more coffee

[candid smelt]

you ever try using mauler against mammoths

[zinc depot]

That sounds not fun xd

[merry wind]

.... Haha...

Been there

[native robin]

Not relevant at all for boss killing or pvp. Not great in boss strikes with piercing-resistant or air units

[earnest mango]

did you ever try mauler vs monster groupers?

[pale egret]

Here is a list of things that maulers can't do:

1. hit air units
2. deal with high-piercing RES enemies
3. solve world hunger
4. cure cancer

[solemn cloak]

i mean its not the fastest choice but it still works well enough

[pale egret]

(not inclusive)

[solemn cloak]

i thought mauler did have anti air?

[zinc depot]

Ngl

[merry wind]

• solve all
• work well enough
  Where the goal post moving next ?

[zinc depot]

Wimp > mauler for many encounters

Nerf wimp

[native robin]

Maulers exist because of weird nano-caused cancer so that tracks

[solemn cloak]

it still solves

lol

[pale egret]

bro would be the goat defensive player in football because the endzone would just move away from the offense

[zinc depot]

I can clear 98% of encounters with 3 wimps, they need hard nerfs

[zinc depot]

Sounds like some anime soccer power up

[merry wind]

U cant win if i bring the goal pole home

[solemn cloak]

i dont think anyone is gonna give smth as good as oolki did

im just gonna go

[umbral sluice]

Hate. 🤖

[earnest mango]

give something?

how so

[merry wind]

See p1ffy get me

[earnest mango]

people are discussing ideas, not givig stuff

[merry wind]

See @neon basalt u the only reasonable voice here

We are all pleb

[neon basalt]

i could make a very inappropriate joke out of this but I think i would get slapped by the mods

[zinc depot]

LMAO

Ayo

[merry wind]

[pale egret]

https://tenor.com/view/rotating-skull-gif-24524852

[earnest mango]

I'm gonna tell yugami

:p

[merry wind]

Sad i cant ping yugami special here

[midnight breach]

[umbral sluice]

And I am man

[burnt dragon]

No you are a bat

[merry wind]

Where fusion ?

[earnest mango]

@solemn cloak don't you think having more boss strikes and pvp to gather data would actually help balancing?

[native robin]

oboi

[umbral sluice]

So uh most new players are NOT getting past the initial population/resource bottle neck… cart before the horse rn innit? Worrying about unit balancing is correct but it’s a bit more mid-late game and people who already invested into the game, time or money wise. If we’re worried about player retention we need to get rid of the predatory z2 model that z3 refuses to fix first

[merry wind]

[solemn cloak]

ok sure thats very possible and it could be useful down the line but I would instead argue for a test like that to be after plasma is added and when the full balance of the game could be really tested

[burnt dragon]

Storage !

[solemn cloak]

giving arguments

[umbral sluice]

Also opens the can of worms of live balancing expected each update

[solemn cloak]

constructive ones

[neon basalt]

piffy cooking

I actually said this on BBR yesterday

[burnt dragon]

Im a construction worker

[neon basalt]

#plug

[solemn cloak]

yea this is part of the madrona currently sticking to z2 problem

[solid forge]

BBR?

[pale egret]

boom bus radio

[solemn cloak]

everything needs a balance change

[solid forge]

Huh

[solemn cloak]

but the focus doesnt seem to be that

at all

[burnt dragon]

👷

[solid forge]

There a transcript for that?

[pale egret]

oolkki do you guys release a text version of BBR?

[earnest mango]

but if you care about the balance of lower level units you also need data on mid/low level bs/pvp

[pale egret]

from what I know there isn't a transcript for BBR episodes...

[earnest mango]

if you wait until level 70 then you'll only get data on level 70 units

[neon basalt]

unfortunately not, im not even sure how I would do that

besides youtube auto captions

[pale egret]

maybe you can do that thing dougdoug does and have a voice-to-text software transcribe what you're saying into a text file?

[native robin]

It’s not a matter of Madrona repeating Z2s mistakes. It’s that they’re still in the process of re-creating the parts of the game we loved. Expecting a small studio to live balance between updates that add interacting content? Not sure that’s reasonable.

[solemn cloak]

ok honestly i like this, id prefer it to be in a way that would prevent the player base from complaining and becoming more upset if there was an alternative to gathering data I would like that. future BS would have people at that level still but i guess it may not be enough to judge balance correctly?

[zinc depot]

You don’t get it we can just get no content for 6 months it definitely won’t kill the game

[burnt dragon]

Use rate %

[native robin]

You’re right, I don’t get it

[pale egret]

they could literally just release a BS mode without any rewards

[zinc depot]

Use rate % doesn’t matter

[umbral sluice]

Please done sue me for copyright infringement

[solemn cloak]

no one would particiapte in that though

[zinc depot]

Dragon was the strongest unit for BS1 and wasn’t top 5 in use rate

[pale egret]

when people are complaining about content drought and having nothing to do?

I think they would ngl

[solemn cloak]

you could make a participation reward, honestly id prefer that over ad nanos

[pale egret]

hell, you could make it a mini competition

[merry wind]

Only gold and SP reward ? Sign me up

[solemn cloak]

test BS simulations

[zinc depot]

Extra grind for nothing? I wouldn’t personally

[umbral sluice]

Bs2 trust, we fuse together to meet min reqs

[zinc depot]

I’d play like 10-20 fights but would just mess around probably

[pale egret]

you'd get gold and SP as nab suggested

[umbral sluice]

Oops forgot to tag

[zinc depot]

Gold and SP are the last things I need lmao

[pale egret]

(admittedly at a restricted rate)

[merry wind]

If the SP scale is good enough i would

[pale egret]

oh I know ur stacked but for others...

idk i feel like id do it just to avoid the monotony of bfc

[zinc depot]

Sure but you’d be missing all the top players

[merry wind]

Most definitely

[zinc depot]

Is that still a good sample? I’d say no

[solemn cloak]

so pause real BS and make dummy BS with participation rewards

[merry wind]

Nope

Not happening

[pale egret]

no

i was proposing dummy bs as a way to collect data

[zinc depot]

I see pause BS I sleep xd

[merry wind]

Cause again the top players ( payer as well ) will have no contents

[pale egret]

regular bs would still happen as usual

[solemn cloak]

yes it would collect data

[native robin]

Or don’t pause BS because the balance issues that do exist aren’t worse than no boss strike.

[pale egret]

?

[solemn cloak]

well if regular BS would happen whats the point in a dummy

[merry wind]

Exactly

[pale egret]

because you cant collect data when nothing is running?

[zinc depot]

Too bad arguing with BenderPro is worse than yelling at a brick wall

[solemn cloak]

you still can collect data during BS?

[zinc depot]

But that’s the exact reason why this suggestion is -20

[umbral sluice]

Should also do piercing dmg and not freeze or explosive

[solemn cloak]

and it would be more accurate

[pale egret]

...

[earnest mango]

So like bs and pvp?

[solemn cloak]

it would mak the dummy obsolete

[merry wind]

Because dummy will exist forever as data collection ( which isnt content )
When the actual BS is contents

[solemn cloak]

i guess yea

[zinc depot]

Only ppl who would play the dummy are those that need SP

[native robin]

I’m trying for a Jericho type situation

[zinc depot]

Pause and think

Need SP.

[burnt dragon]

[zinc depot]

Meta units aren’t gonna be ran

The formation I ran BS1 was all max ranks

[pale egret]

eh that's a fair critique

[merry wind]

At the lower scale yes and not the top 10%
The 10% of the players base with meta is where actual BS collecting

[zinc depot]

If I played this I’d throw ranged + a bunch of garbage

To rank up

[pale egret]

idea defo needs to bake in the oven more

[zinc depot]

You’d literally see me run ranged + 3 laser units or something

[merry wind]

Fastest way to level my junk

XD

[pale egret]

I still think it might be useful to collect info for lower leveled folks but yeah at the top end the data wouldn't be very useful

[zinc depot]

Ye but awful for data

[solemn cloak]

it would though

[zinc depot]

Low levels won’t play it because they’ll lose units

And also low levels don’t grind SP

[solemn cloak]

you could see gains compared to lower levels and adjust

if the gap is too wide or too small

[zinc depot]

Resource cap hits too hard at low level

[pale egret]

hikari's point is that higher level folks would not even try so the data is useless

[zinc depot]

So they look and see “get gold and SP? I don’t need SP and I can farm gold without spending 200 iron per fight because my mini died”

[pale egret]

it's like trying to gauge who's the best player in the nba by looking at the all star game

[solemn cloak]

oh thats why you would add a nano incentive

like it wouldnt be a whole ass BS

[zinc depot]

Who tf is playing for nanos?

[pale egret]

F2P might

[zinc depot]

Idgaf about nanos, most top players don’t

[solemn cloak]

maybe like you participate in it for a certain amount of required time throughout a 4 day period

[zinc depot]

I’m not grinding hours for 100 nanos

[solemn cloak]

so 1 hour within that 4 days

[pale egret]

but then again you want top players with the widest rosters for testing so not very useful

[zinc depot]

Most top players aren’t starved for nanos

[solemn cloak]

complete the 1 hour depending on ur score u get an amount and that would give devs info for point gains during a BS

[pale egret]

yeah that was my point

[earnest mango]

So you mean people doing a boss strike but it's not actually a boss strike

And no bs rewards

No social element

Just burnout?

[solemn cloak]

it is a dummy

[pale egret]

you want the players with the best rosters (ie top players) to play but they wouldnt cuz no need

[solemn cloak]

its only 1 hour

no burn out

[zinc depot]

Guys lets make a BS that rewards cosmetics

[native robin]

It’s also sort of pointless in the end because balance in this game is more than a unit’s performance in boss strikes. Having a dummy BS wouldn’t just disenfranchise a bunch of the player base. It’d also produce data that you’d struggle to find a valid use for.

How do you weight it with data from pvp? Boss kills? Harder encounters? That’s hard.

[quaint herald]

We out here discussing this for 24 hours straight

[pale egret]

(im agreeing with u here btw)

[zinc depot]

People will definitely grind 16h a day for cosmetics

[earnest mango]

I can see myself doing that

Lol

Depending on the cosmetic

[native robin]

I need that number 6 on the little chevron.

[solemn cloak]

1 hour at least within a 4 day period to quality for a reward

that isnt bad at all right

[zinc depot]

You’d need an insane cosmetic

[solemn cloak]

just nanos

[zinc depot]

Okay, gonna throw 3 wimps at it for 1h

[earnest mango]

Barbie navy skin pack

[zinc depot]

Good luck getting data

[solemn cloak]

we havent gotten ads

this would compensate for that

[zinc depot]

I aint risking t3s/t4s on nanos

I have 3k wimps just gonna throw all of them into the meat grinder

[umbral sluice]

Brutal snipers

[earnest mango]

Teal army instead of green

[solemn cloak]

then a cosmetic sure, whatever gets people to particiapte

that isnt too good for what it is

[zinc depot]

Good luck with the data when they see top players spamming wimps

[earnest mango]

Or we could use the system we already have in place to make people grind

[solemn cloak]

there would still be point thresholds they'd have you try to meet within that hour

[zinc depot]

Top players about to single handedly get wimp nerfed

[earnest mango]

Instead of wasting dev time on new things nobody would like

[pale egret]

its f2p and strong so that's perfect

[solemn cloak]

so you cant just freeload it ideally

[pale egret]

/s

[zinc depot]

I’d just not play lmfao

[native robin]

Or…or…hear me out..the idea doesn’t work because the data would be almost unusable and the technical challenges would just mean huge opportunity cost and delays on other content including the boss strikes people actually care about.

[solemn cloak]

different point reqs for different lvls

[zinc depot]

I’m not gonna tryhard for 1h for $5 per hour

[pale egret]

yeah it was an idea that i threw out on a whim, it very clearly does not work for the reasons suggested within the past 15 minutes

[solemn cloak]

well its a cost in exchange for gathering valuable balancing data

[pale egret]

bender idk why you're defending this idea when it doesn't work, and im saying this as the guy that came up with it in the first place

[plain temple]

Huh?

[zinc depot]

Top players on their way to completely ruin all the data

[plain temple]

It wasn't his?!

[solemn cloak]

why doesnt it work

[pale egret]

nah it was me

😔

[solemn cloak]

i dont think i saw what u said

[zinc depot]

I can see the vision but in practice it doesn’t work sadly

[native robin]

I definitely get where you were going with it, and if the game were later in development I think there could be some utility. I’m not just trying to hate or anything. The stage we’re at now is just…a dilemma.

[pale egret]

yeah, didnt let it bake enough in my head xD

[zinc depot]

It was the same reason why global BS won’t work

I have 0 reason to play properly in that

[solemn cloak]

i mean other games use event dummy simulators to gather data

[zinc depot]

Ima just wimp spam for 130k and call it a day

[solemn cloak]

though it gave no rewards lol

people played it anyways

[pale egret]

can u give an example of this

[solemn cloak]

dark and darker arena

[pale egret]

(and also show evidence that said data was actually useful to the devs)

[solemn cloak]

though dark and darker gameplay is a million times more stimulating than BN

so idk

[pale egret]

(instead of people messing around like they do at the nba all star game)

[earnest mango]

Global bs?

[pale egret]

BS where the point pool is shared across everyone

not just ur guild

[earnest mango]

Oh

[zinc depot]

Yeah a BS with no guilds basically, everyone participates the same pool

[earnest mango]

Yeah, no f that

I'm not ruining my life to grind for people who don't even play

[solemn cloak]

i feel like most of the competitive players would just rather do guild vs guild

[earnest mango]

Lmao

[midnight breach]

You can get 5000 points and quit, others will carry you

[zinc depot]

There’s gonna be so many slackers (obviously, there’s way more casuals than top players) so there’s no reason to tryhard

[merry wind]

Time for meme data

[solemn cloak]

yea all casuals would freeload

[zinc depot]

I’m gonna bring firedrake, flame trooper, and 3 wimps to every fight

Get them all nerfed next patch for too much usage

[merry wind]

Thugs frontline for me

[zinc depot]

[merry wind]

He gettings that nice workout

[pale egret]

you'd be like that one person who posts videos of them clearing gb with thugs

[merry wind]

U said it

[zinc depot]

I’m kinda tempted to post a vod of clearing GB with double frag now

[midnight breach]

If we all use tempest it'll become strong

[velvet cradle]

Looks like we gotta nerf heavier since it was the #1 used unit last bs 😭

[zinc depot]

No if we all use it it’ll get nerfed because it’s overused

[midnight breach]

It's becoming stronger because people will blow the dust off of it

[pale egret]

gotta make the heavy tank meta somehow

😂

[plain temple]

That's next actually

[velvet cradle]

Soon will we be forced to use mini tanks

[pale egret]

nah we gotta use riot troopers

[zinc depot]

I haven’t even made a heavy tank yet

[pale egret]

mini tanks gonna get nerfed

[merry wind]

Shiet medium stock about to go up

[plain temple]

Scout bike ftw

[merry wind]

POG

[zinc depot]

I’m not R6ing that piece of junk

[plain temple]

It will tank

Trust

[merry wind]

I will r6 my heavy.... Just because it looks nice

[zinc depot]

If we actually get a BS for data collection only I’ll either not participate or bring the funniest units in the game

If wimp can’t get to the point threshold casuals can’t hit it anyways so they’d make it so wimp can reach

Time for wimp spam + scout bike + flame trooper + arsonist + sandbag + heavy gunner + ninja + rpg

Time to get amazing “data”

[ocean ivy]

Do you own a frag?

[pale egret]

respect for taking the time to scroll all the way past 2K plus comments

I am going for my golden sombrero wrt to frag pulls, so the answer is unfortunately no

[ocean ivy]

As someone who does, I can tell you right now they are not as busted as you think they are. Sure their tankiness is great and damage is pretty awesome, but you actually have to use them yourself against brutal raiders and silver wolves to actually know their effectiveness

They will be top tier in the next strike for sure, but they absolutely do not need nerfs. Brutal brawlers can 2 shot them and on multiple occasions I have used them against elite raiders and silver wolves and it almost die

[plain temple]

What rank are yours at?

[ocean ivy]

Everyone sees the wiki numbers and assumes they are busted without actually testing them themselves

[ocean ivy]

4

[plain temple]

Jeez

[ocean ivy]

Ive on 3 occasions today already almost had mine killed when paired with 4 maulers

Elite raiders and silver wolves are no joke

Now you fight 4 waves of those, your frags will die from time to time. They are absolutely not unkillable

[merry wind]

Yep agree

[ocean ivy]

And against rebels, those r1 supers tank the melee fragment like its nothing

[pale egret]

eh fair enough

[ocean ivy]

Ultimately I dont think people realize how strong full lineups of elite raiders and silver wolves are. Theres a reason it took having busted promo units to stand a chance

Those enemy formations are hella strong when you dont have promos

[burnt dragon]

Omg frags are too weak

Buff it

[pale egret]

which makes the talk of nerfing mauler even more insane lol

[burnt dragon]

0% resistance

10k dmg

Now!!!!

[ocean ivy]

People that want nerfs to units currently available in game are insane

[merry wind]

Nerfing anything rn is crazy

[burnt dragon]

Nerfing madrona

[ocean ivy]

Some units i get like LSW and all, but the current enemy formations are crazy and definitely warrant the strength of most future units

[merry wind]

Aight we get Z2 now

[burnt dragon]

Z1 when?

[plain temple]

Z0

[pale egret]

Z negative 1

[pale egret]

can we nerf as spawn timer cuz it's driving me crazy rn

😂

[ocean ivy]

*buff

5 day flat timer lets goooo

[pale egret]

we "nerf" the timer by removing the "-8" from the timer

text removal is nerf right?

||/s||

[ocean ivy]

I suppose you right

[merry wind]

Make it 1-5

[ocean ivy]

At least give us a timer we can see for time left for next spawn

[merry wind]

I want TO KILL IT

[merry wind]

The horror u see 7 days timer pop up

[pale egret]

😭

[umbral sluice]

!

[zinc depot]

Nobody’s putting in T12 effort for 100 nanos

[merry wind]

U would not

[merry wind]

I rather go back to work and get salaries check

[zinc depot]

Same lmao

[merry wind]

[umbral sluice]

Don’t they already have the data for bs

[burnt dragon]

The data is all bs

[velvet cradle]

one shot*

I’ve heard horror stories of brutal brawlers killing 3 maulers in a single attack

[neon basalt]

i wonder who that was

[velvet cradle]

it was you?

[velvet cradle]

https://tenor.com/view/clash-royale-emote-clash-royale-clash-royale-goblin-gif-8154580551855181761

[wet stump]

Brutal raiders are nasty mofos

[velvet cradle]

brutal bombardiers and brutal brawlers in particular have very overtuned dmg, rest are fair

[ocean ivy]

Alpha wolf truck

[trail pagoda]

This is ragebait and right?

[scarlet goblet]

Very bad ragebait

[trail pagoda]

thanks for confirming

[scarlet goblet]

I tried to read through some of this and it’s actually funny

[trail pagoda]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cute-ily-ily-cat-kiss-cat-gif-1371465982424157548

[trail pagoda]

when I read 200 less hp for maulers, that’s when I knew it had to be ragebait

[scarlet goblet]

The game doesn’t currently need really any unit changes. I do believe however, before 70 comes out, some future units need changed

[scarlet goblet]

Let’s just strip down everything f2p has

Reduce heaviers hp by 200 too

[trail pagoda]

I think wimps have too much hp as well

does 75 health would reasonable?

[scarlet goblet]

Yeah, they’re way too strong

You can use them from level 40 to 70

Doc 100 hp and 100 dmg from each attack

[solemn cloak]

people are already upset because of bs1

all you have to do is look

[ocean ivy]

Imagine you nerf units then they get BTFOed in future strikes because noone bothered to actually play test the units in a realistic scenario

Then enemy waves beyond lvl 70 occur once madrona implements higher levels and now theyre barely usable. Thats what I dont want. People thinking as if the game will end at 70

[native robin]

Nowhere near as many as would be upset by delaying a boss strike until some balance changes were made that might not even be relevant until later updates.

[solemn cloak]

if the changes that are made dont matter that means things would be getting power crept constantly with new releases. power creeping is very obviously not healthy for a game

[solemn cloak]

not exactly sure what BTFO means but im assuming u mean they are changed because that never got field tested

that is a problem and its why i suggest madrona take more time right now to balance beforehand

before more stuff is released with z2 balancing

it would be hard to nerf or buff anything now because it ruins tha value of things people already paid for

which is sad because the balance is already whack so it feels over tbh

[native robin]

…That’s what a level progression system is. Power creep. That’s what it’s for.

Plasma artillery should be stronger than heavy artillery. It’s unlocked later and at far greater cost.

Should we…nerf plasma arty to match a ranked up heavy arty? No. Because then there’s zero incentive to get plasma.

(For a hyperbolic sort of example)

[solemn cloak]

there can be increases in damage but it should not trivialize everything beforehand

[native robin]

I agree

So some power creep is and should be acceptable

[solemn cloak]

and a simple increase in damage should not always be the changing stat

[solemn cloak]

i guess i should of said excessive power creep

which this is

[gaunt nebula]

that's progression, not powercreep
better example of powercreep would be things like the allied raiders/silver wolves
where they're made obsolete by units you unlock at a lower level

[solemn cloak]

yea

thats what i mean by powercreep

[gaunt nebula]

not even nano units either

[steady jay]

Didn't this get posted yesterday? How does it have almost 2.5k already?

[mental crystal]

Arguing funny

[steady jay]

Crazy levels of commitment from both sides it seems

[mental crystal]

688 messages by Benderpro

[gaunt nebula]

the real battle nations pvp

[mental crystal]

I love arguing in good faith with someone who doesn’t return that kindness

[haughty ivy]

I’ve been doing ac every week for like 6-7 months now? And no frags, I can’t imagine how painful as will be, with lower rates and needs extreme grinds and luck to win f2p

[quaint herald]

Please

for the love of god

do not add me back to this thread.

Don't.

Just, do not.

I don't want to be here.

[mental crystal]

@quaint herald

[mental crystal]

https://tenor.com/view/ahh-scream-stuck-trapped-chained-gif-15725660

[solemn cloak]

im pretty sure everyone misrepresented my argument like 500 times

[zinc depot]

Devs: Hi everyone, we’re delaying BS to October to do some rebalancing! Oh btw some of the fun units in this game (Mauler, AS frags) are getting hard nerfed, so have fun!

Turns out when you defend a really terrible argument with pure strawmen the thread gets 29 downvotes and 2,500 comments xd

[steady jay]

You got any highlights for us late arrivals?

[mental crystal]

This thread is a lot funnier if you were there

[frosty mountain]

Arrowhead hire this man right now

[steady jay]

I am sure, but I am also not going back through 2.5 messages lol

[mental crystal]

Turn on auto scroll and it’s like a novel but written by toddlers

[umbral sluice]

It’s worth it, actually
-# says guy who read thru 2.5k comments and will Now drag you to join

[mental crystal]

Your commentary on old messages mid argument were a fun addition

[rose obsidian]

Just a question though, why should unit balancing be tied to boss strikes specifically? Yes, the leaderboard IS competitive, but the rewards aren’t tied to your score with other players

boss strike rewards are completely tied to a pve experience

[solid forge]

I think the biggest issue is that the previous BS was tied to snakes which was tied to AS frags which is now tied to your score with other players.

So in a roundabout way, your previous BS performance would influence your future score by virtue of having a better chance at getting ranged fragments.

[rose obsidian]

I agree with that, but your performance wasn’t tied to anyone outside of your guilds performance

for instance if I got 5 snakes, that didn’t take away the opportunity from anyone else getting 5 snakes

What I’m trying to say is boss strike rewards aren’t finite

there’s enough for everybody

and, while I haven’t read anything past the initial point, the maulers mentioned imo shouldn’t be touched

They’re F2P

Maybe the frags should be, that’s worth discussing, but I don’t think their balancing should be tied specifically to the boss strike. At the very most I imagine frags direct result being +1 tier, so it would be the difference between 5 snakes and 4 snakes for instance

which I don’t think is super crazy

[solid forge]

Well, you weren’t in their guild, so in a roundabout way yes you did contribute somewhat to that player not getting 5 snakes

I jest though I see what you mean.

[solid forge]

Frags do need a repair cost nerf and possibly a durability nerf but people will riot if you touch them (or anything else for that matter).

[solid forge]

I mean, I didn’t even get a single snake.

I don’t feel like throwing cash at the game atm so I’m basically waiting till level 56 + prestige to drop.

[rose obsidian]

no that’s fair, completely

I just feel that nerfing units before the boss strike just takes away from people

it doesn’t really benefit anyone

[neon basalt]

you’re locked in

[rose obsidian]

Sure arguably it makes the gap slightly bigger, but it also raises the floor too

So more people get units

And cuz the tiers are exponential in points, the difference between T15 and T12 is hundreds of hours of grinding for only 3 more rewards

[solid forge]

Ye

[rose obsidian]

People are gonna grind that with their willpower anyways, no reason in making it harder for everyone else

[solid forge]

I have 0 willpower so I wasn’t going to get much done anyways lol

[rose obsidian]

and that’s fine, I think people should play at their own pace

[solid forge]

Oh, wait, forgot to make my first heavier tank

Idk why that occurred to me just now

[glacial seal]

This right here, we shouldnt be trying to nerf f2p units that are actually useful!

[rose obsidian]

And I just got to the argument that “F2Ps don’t have black nanos if you started late”

Nanoing the mauler is 25 nanos total

that’s like, insanely cheap

[glacial seal]

Also we had an entire month to grind out black nanos not long ago

[rose obsidian]

like 3 maulers for the price of one mega cheap

[rose obsidian]

yeah I just read thru ur message history in this thread and you said it way better than I did

[umbral sluice]

POV u watching me comment on hour old messages

[potent gyro]

https://tenor.com/view/community-gif-23728528

Also why are the 4 upvotes shown but the 30+ downvotes hidden…?

[zinc depot]

Came after, it shows emojis in the order you react in iirc

[potent gyro]

Ah

[zinc depot]

And since BenderPro upvotes his own suggestions frame 1 the thumbs up is first

[potent gyro]

Ah