?
#h1-high-heat-strategies
long minnow
Possibly that
Maybe I didn’t time it right
Still, imagine a flurry of those
Literally bullet hell
undone tartan
They’re sent in single waves though
long minnow
They’re sent in single waves though
Multiple heads
quartz mantle
EM Lernie is all about space management and if you can’t kill heads quickly it’s hard to find space to exist without instantly taking 30 damage
hardy garden
https://imgur.com/a/k5smxqA high heat lernie when youre low health 
hoary pasture
Nice dash you got there
hardy garden
sword thunderdash gaming
honest kernel
you survived for a really long time lol
hoary pasture
When you're low on health the ultra instincts kick in
long minnow
https://imgur.com/a/k5smxqA high heat lernie when youre low health <:bouldy:5233...
You lived for a really long time seeing the bullet-puddle hell you were going through at 1 hit left
dapper schooner
which one is blue
left prism
Blue is the slams one iirc
dapper schooner
they all slam
but if its the one that makes projectiles fall out of the sky when it slams
then yeah thats the worst
undone tartan
undone tartan
~~they all slam~~
Only blue mini-heads slam
dapper schooner
Only blue mini-heads slam
oh really?
undone tartan
but if its the one that makes projectiles fall out of the sky when it slams
Yes the blue main head does the projectile slam
undone tartan
oh really?
Yes. Each mini-head has access to two attacks.
Yellow: Volley and lunge
Blue: Slam and lunge
Orange: Magma and lunge
Green: Spawn bloodless and lunge
Purple: Waves and lunge
Mini-heads can’t be the same color as the main head
And I think you will see two different types of mini-heads per fight
dapper schooner
i knew all the mini heads have different abilities based on colour but i thought those were in addition to slam
didnt realise slam was a special ability
undone tartan
All the main heads can slam, but only the blue mini-heads can
And the blue main head is the only one that can slam up to 6 times in a row (the others do 1 slam in phases 1 and 2, and then triple slam in phase 3)
quartz mantle
Blue mini heads can also slam as they spawn in
Which makes it dangerous to try to insta gib the heads when they spawn
warm dagger
So if you use the SD in combat and then take either of Athena's DD boons you will get a second SD.
shy plinth
Yeah it's v effective
shy plinth
Often in athena rooms you want to make sure you pop your SD before picking up the boon
honest kernel
if it's trial don't pick athena, then die, then take it
shy plinth
Yep, you fill the spot the SD left and then the SD comes back on top of it anyway
So your SD always pops first even if you have an athena dd and the athena dd is 50% heal, not 30%
warm dagger
Also.. I will take Last Stand with Guan Yu or if I feel like I don't have enough health.
Or if I don't find Patty.
honest kernel
So your SD always pops first even if you have an athena dd and the athena dd is ...
didn't notice athenas DD is 50%, very nice 
oops
shy plinth
Yeah it's very player beneficial for an unintended interaction
honest kernel
I always go for it with LC4 SD
undone tartan
So do I avoid Deathless Stand when using Stubborn Defiance?
Opposite of that
trim maple
Opposite of that
Thought so but I noticed the wording was different
undone tartan
Just make sure you lose your SD before you pick them up
trim maple
because they changed the "gain a Death Defiance" charge (while having SB) and I was so confused
when it now said SB
instead of DD
was there an update or am I tripping?
undone tartan
If you have an Athena core, remember to lose your SD before picking up any Athena boons
undone tartan
I don’t know what you’re talking about
shy plinth
It still does, that's the point
You gain a death's defiance while you are talented into stubborn defiance
That is why it restores 50% instead of 30%
trim maple
You gain a death's defiance while you are talented into stubborn defiance
yeah it no longer said DD, it said an extra charge of Stubborn
it used to say DD
I got confused which is why I asked
unless I am HARD tripping
shy plinth
It should say "Stubborn Defiance makes you Impervious longer. Replenish 1 charge now."
The first word changes based on your talent because it modifies the thing you are talented into on the mirror
But the functionality is that it adds a charge of DD and changes how all of your defiances function, whether they are death or stubborn
vague birch
if like, I die right at the end against hades because I ran out of time at td3, then I should just be grabbing more poms right?
more poms is always good, but im probs not grabbing enough
hardy garden
more poms is always good, but im probs not grabbing enough
poms are good yeah, theyre more damage but it can often end up being a very miniscule increase compared to additional boons
honest kernel
you also need to learn to kill things faster 
hardy garden
or just make more cohesive builds
generally pomming is just paying attention to how much an individual boon contributes to your damage output and how much the pom increases its value.
so just pom important boon good. pom = big increase good.
generally flat damage boons like casts/status effects/zeus get better pom scaling and percent damage increase ones you dont really need more than the first pom or two
vague birch
I see
honest kernel
what aspect and build are you going for?
vague birch
I was already cutting it very close at the temple of Styx since I went in with only 5 minutes left
vague birch
Oh
honest kernel
it's fine to use it, but you're gonna have to practice going faster if you wanna beat TD3
hardy garden
well chiron can go pretty fast but its less consistent
vague birch
Yeah
honest kernel
you could watch a chiron speedrun to see how how it's used optimally
vague birch
I’ll go try that then in the morning
hardy garden
but uh yeah artemis cares probably the least about poms, though they matter more on the special than the attack.
vague birch
but uh yeah artemis cares probably the least about poms, though they matter more...
I see
hardy garden
going arty special your main objective is grabbing aphro attack and the heartrend duo
vague birch
I’ve been trying to do that yeah
hardy garden
other nice things are hunter's mark, chaos/swift flourish ofc, conc volley then relentless, zeus after aphro for smouldering air
vague birch
Yeah I ended with a decent build on that run but I feel like I just played poorly at points
honest kernel
how much better is conc over relentless?
vague birch
Still need to get used to benefits package
honest kernel
are you using BP1 or 2
vague birch
2
honest kernel
BP2 has some scary combos
vague birch
Yeah
I feel like I also got unlucky a bit? Though, probably I just had normal luck and didn’t get the satyr sack after the second door
honest kernel
you gotta try getting good time in the first 3 areas to make up for potentially bad sack rng
vague birch
Yeah def
hardy garden
actually like uh 144 more base damage so more than 2x even
vague birch
I keep cutting it close in Tartarus and Elysium time wise I feel, so I’ll probably focus on those areas
honest kernel
I usually slack in tart then make up heaps of lost time is asphodel then elysium is pretty good and then I don't have sack issues
vague birch
Asphodel is like, a shorter area than the other two so I should also try and shave off time there
hardy garden
yeah
honest kernel
when you get to elysium pray to rnjesus for bball miniboss
hardy garden
with td3 generally be at like 7 minutes when youre leaving aspho
honest kernel
vague birch
What companions do you typically use cause I typically use Meg
hardy garden
meg best usually yeah
honest kernel
meg
hardy garden
just try to use her in minibosses mostly
honest kernel
^
vague birch
I see
hardy garden
only use her for lernie if youre almost dead
vague birch
Ofc pop whatever the shield thing is called I can’t remember first
vague birch
That’s it yeah
honest kernel
btw DC will cost you some time
hardy garden
since you attack into targets before specialling with chiron. dc is a pretty large amount of damage wasted since the attack individually hitting a lot harder than a single special arrow
vague birch
Ah, I see
hardy garden
especially with aphro atk and if you have hunters mark/twin shot
vague birch
Got it
raw cloud
personally i like than but megs better for speedrunning
undone tartan
just try to use her in minibosses mostly
And learn the heroes meg for the easy 5K damage
viral nimbus
whats the best uhh everything for 16 heat?
like weapon, keepsake, boons i should get etc. or if theres a guide thatd be cool
lime elk
any weapon can beat 16 heat
the standard is god keepsakes in tartarus and asphodel, coin purse/hourglass for elysium, and acorn/||sigil|| for styx
this is useful for builds
hardy garden
or just acorn for both ely and styx. sigil is a skip unless speedrunning
undone tartan
Yeah sigil is just for speedrunning
raw cloud
hourglass can also work in styx
hardy garden
yeah that too though tbh more for speedrunning also
can help more than acorn if youre lucky tho
raw cloud
i like if i have rd
undone tartan
Unless you’re planning on getting 3+ sacked I guess
raw cloud
for ichor
undone tartan
But
You can just pick up ichor anywhere and it will carry to Hades fight
Why do you need hourglass
undone tartan
Especially if you took hourglass into Ely
Hourglass into Ely >>> Hourglass into Styx
hardy garden
yeah pretty much
pseudo kernel
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/954394732233130024/962310855356198982/304...
are you giving that advice to this guy
lyric seal
No that’s just my general advice
pseudo kernel
sick
lyric seal
undone tartan
I’ll take that on with my maxed out Demeter gauntlets
Do it
undone tartan
Gauntlets, that’s my advice
That’s funny because my advice is “don’t use fists” 
long minnow
That’s funny because my advice is “don’t use fists” <:shadesmile:520447982727069...
Anyone who uses melee on a super high heat must be smoking the good stuff
undone tartan
Shield?
undone tartan
Fists are especially bad
long minnow
There’s no aoe
No enemy penetration thing like spear
You have to get especially close
And then you get your ass kicked by fo2 enemies
undone tartan
And the damage is also just bad
long minnow
And the damage is also just bad
Love that
Cp just makes each punch like a swing from an angry toddler
Cp hades will take a year and a half to beat with optimal builds and plays
undone tartan
CP2 EM4 Hades has over 78K hp
honest kernel
pseudo kernel
It took me 12 mins and 29 seconds to beat em4 cp2 hades. i also got a jacked build on beowulf and every free room in the game
undone tartan
It took me 6 hours and 25 minutes to beat EM4 CP2 Hades. I also had 28 bloodstones with lvl 72 Trippy Flare with Mirage on Beo
pseudo kernel
Fast
undone tartan
I’m something of a “fast pacer” myself
long minnow
It took me 6 hours and 25 minutes to beat EM4 CP2 Hades. ~~I also had 28 bloodst...
LMFAO
You know that’s wr pace
undone tartan
pseudo kernel
LMAO
long minnow
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/905828840578895922/954455111348932738/u...
the devs intended it to be like this
Most speedruns are glitchless in hades because there aren’t many game breaking bugs
undone tartan
Oh that’s a troll and also about the different game
I just think “fast pacer” is funny
long minnow
Ah ofc it’s a troll
long minnow
I just think “fast pacer” is funny
That’s just most games
pseudo kernel
Most speedruns are glitchless in hades because there aren’t many game breaking b...
I feel like there are a couple of bugs in Hades
long minnow
I feel like there are a couple of bugs in Hades
Nothing that allows you to skip an entire region like some other speedruns
laughs in fnaf sb
long minnow
So it’s mostly intended
Plus anyways for some beo stuff you really don’t even choose to exploit it it’s just there because sgg decided “let’s make a broken shield”
pseudo kernel
Sgg doesn't know how to program a weapon correctly
long minnow
Sgg doesn't know how to program a weapon correctly<:bouldy:523329116934635534>
I’m grateful for that
Beo for some reason only has good bugs
Apart from the sketchy block
pseudo kernel
And the tiny flare bug
And the loss of iframes from your casts explosions
And thunder flare not getting affected by cast damage % buffs but who uses thunder flare
shy plinth
It only has good bugs if we exclude the bad bugs
left prism
thunder flare randomly backstabbing too
undone tartan
Beo for some reason only has good bugs
And the terrible awful game ruining bug where slicing flare (the best flare) doesn’t get any better with vicious cycle (definitely not usually a scam anyway)
Also flood flare not triggering sea storm which also doesn’t really matter since your attack and bull rush do
dapper schooner
I’m something of a “fast pacer” myself
Pancake certified "Fast Pacer™"
hardy garden
block never working
nocturne stag
Do any of the other weapons have any bugs or is it only beo?
Also, how good would beo be compared to other weapons if every bug was patched?
long minnow
And thunder flare not getting affected by cast damage % buffs but who uses thund...
Who tf uses thunder flare
But ok nvm beo has its fair share of bad bugs too
undone tartan
Also, how good would beo be compared to other weapons if every bug was patched?
Still amazing
long minnow
And the terrible awful game ruining bug where slicing flare (the best flare) doe...
Wow that’s such a shame slicing flare is the optimal cast for beo that ruins the game how terrible
undone tartan
My 52 heat Beo run didn’t take advantage of a single Beo bug I don’t think
long minnow
Still amazing
Yep
long minnow
My 52 heat Beo run didn’t take advantage of a single Beo bug I don’t think
Unless you count the block
That can’t be controlled though
long minnow
What
undone tartan
Look at the way he holds his shield
long minnow
The weird block radius is supposed to be like that?
trim maple
For chiron bow should I take Sniper Shot or Chain Shot because I only have those two choices
otherwise I'd need to take Flurry Shot
and no power shots sounds bad?
trim maple
yeahhhhhhhh
none of them are
really bad luck there
Who should I run? Artemis Special?
hoary pasture
You can yea
long minnow
Who should I run? Artemis Special?
Artemis or dio are both good
hoary pasture
Artemis Special + Aphrodite attack and look for Heartrend
long minnow
Artemis Special + Aphrodite attack and look for Heartrend
That’s pretty big yeah
trim maple
Artemis Special + Aphrodite attack and look for Heartrend
exactly as I theorized ty
hoary pasture
You can also do Aphro attack + Dio Special and look for Low Tolerance
I like this one a lot more
Or Tempest Flourish + Zeus Call for Sea Storm
ashen garnet
58 fists kinda ez honestly
honest kernel
hoary pasture
cursive portal
58 fists kinda ez honestly<:thanthink:669246004142538753>
So true
long minnow
You can also do Aphro attack + Dio Special and look for Low Tolerance
That’s my main Chiron build
long minnow
58 fists kinda ez honestly<:thanthink:669246004142538753>
Fists is free 64 just no one notices
flat flicker
I just got a ps5 copy and did a fresh file run and wow this game is hard without two dashes
I’ve now paid for a triple a game lol I have three copies 
undone tartan
Same
undone tartan
I have switch, steam, PS5
lyric seal
Step 1: Exagryph
Step 2: reroll at first gate until Daedalus Hammer
Step 3: Pray for Hazard Bomb
Step 4: Rejoice and win or seethe as you begrudgingly take something else because apparently thermonuclear bombs were not on the menu
shy plinth
Is this a high heat strat?
Generally this channel is focused on 32 heat plus stuff, not sure how deep in endgame content you are but typically hazard bomb isn't what you're looking for on eris
honest kernel
undone tartan
Step 1: Don’t take fated authority
Step 2: Profit
honest kernel
dapper schooner
Generally this channel is focused on 32 heat plus stuff, not sure how deep in en...
tbf they didn't say eris, might have been talking about hesty
shy plinth
It's true but my theory with "exagryph" is probs zag rail tbh
toxic temple
Anyone got any zag fist builds?
honest kernel
zeus attack>storm lightning>splitting bolt = win
undone tartan
Merciful End
undone tartan
zeus attack>storm lightning>splitting bolt = win
Jolted as well
honest kernel
undone tartan
So yeah either Zeus or ME
lyric seal
Generally this channel is focused on 32 heat plus stuff, not sure how deep in en...
I mainly use Zagreus’ aspect when using Exagryph. Occasionally Lucifer
shy plinth
What heat are you pushing with hazard bomb reroll strats?
hoary pasture
Why would you reroll gates
lyric seal
Currently at 15 with exagryph though my highest heat is 37 w Malphon
shy plinth
Ah ok
lyric seal
Why would you reroll gates
Because I’m stupid
hoary pasture
With Dark Foresight you get your hammer so early anyway
And if you dont just reset
shy plinth
This channel is based on a context of 32+ (or higher) strategy discussion, more than happy to answer questions of course but it's important to make sure everyone's on the same page
lyric seal
And if you dont just reset
You cannot physically stop me from making subpar choices
shy plinth
Generally fated authority just isn't as effective as persuasion overall
toxic temple
This channel is based on a context of 32+ (or higher) strategy discussion, more ...
Where do we discuss heats lower than 32?
shy plinth
#h1-builds-and-combat and #h1-discussion are both good spots
hoary pasture
Just #h1-discussion is fine
lyric seal
I was just about ask that question myself
shy plinth
And of course we're willing to answer questions no problem, just that it can be a bit hard to follow the conversation if people are operating in different contexts
lyric seal
Anyways I’ll talk to y’all later I’m gonna go reheat some pizza
honest kernel
shy plinth
🍕
long minnow
Also bouldy is canonically the one true god of gods
Even primordial chaos cowers before the power of bouldy
umbral siren
How would you guys go around building aspect of Demeter for higher heat?
hoary pasture
How would you guys go around building aspect of Demeter for higher heat?
Merciful End up until 45 heat, higher than that I would go for Lightning Strike Jolted Resets or just Hangover and praying for poms
umbral siren
Alright
hoary pasture
If you keep AP1 RI0 for 50 you can still do ME
Or if you can live through the AP2 grind
umbral siren
I’m just having a rough time with all the weapons and having poor heat choices, even with guidance. Thank you.
quartz mantle
Generally this channel is focused on 32 heat plus stuff, not sure how deep in en...
Speak for yourself coward
shy plinth
I'm not on your level
quartz mantle
Reload cancel into dash to I frame the special if you don’t have delta and if you do you just click the dash button
next acorn
:disapointmentchampion:
pure lily
cursive portal
Zagwow
flat flicker
Rocket less effort
trim maple
what should I look for in achilles 32 heat spear?
mossy zinc
Crystal Clarity, Hunting Blades, or a speedrun build with Tidal Dash start looking for either Deadly Strike + Hunter's Mark or Lightning Strike + Static Discharge (and probably resetting for Flurry Jab).
solemn pulsar
(crystal clarity and hunting blades both work well with the speedrun build as well, but if you are cast focused divine dash or strike for safety is nice)
(also phalanx shot -> lightning phalanx is a nice option, but can be annoying without Quick Reload)
paper flare
has anyone beaten a 32 heat run where you basically only put heat into things that make the game harder, rather than things that make you weaker? such as, no cost increases, no mandatory boon purges, no healing reduction, etc. instead, going all in on extreme measures, hard labor, etc. i've been stuck on it for forever. i've tried so many EZ builds like sea storm super soaker, triple bomb gun with aphrodite and all special damage increases, crystal clarity spam
shy plinth
I don't really understand the difference
You're saying combat-only pacts?
Any particular reason why you're doing that?
paper flare
because i prefer the enemies getting buffed to me getting nerfed
shy plinth
Have you cleared 32 otherwise?
paper flare
no
honest kernel
shy plinth
I think I'd reconsider your approach
paper flare
i only have the second skelly statue
shy plinth
Here
Try this progression
Underworld customs is about as free as it gets and it sounds like you're trying to avoid tight deadline too
Really just making things harder on yourself
paper flare
thanks, that was the exact advice i was looking for
lol, i see nobody recommends extreme measures 4. i've made it to hades a couple times and get annihilated by his last form, this makes sense, i'll ditch that
shy plinth
It is borderline unfair
Nyaanyaa's 32 Heat Guide
HL5 LC4 CF2 EM3 BP2 MM UC TD3
Stubborn Defiance
> Owl Pendant > Lucky Tooth/Acorn > Acorn
This is the pact that is most likely to win you the game
I used the one at the bottom of that sheet personally but this is the one that's most recommended and for a good reason
paper flare
i'ma try it out now. thanks again!
shy plinth
Good luck
nocturne stag
What qualifies as high heat?
shy plinth
32+
nocturne stag
I see
paper flare
omg how are you supposed to do TD3? what's a quick shredding build?
shy plinth
Have you watched the vods on the spreadsheet?
TD3 shouldn't be build specific
Though obv some weapons are faster and some are slower, if you're using Chiron or Chaos or whatever gonna be a little tough
honest kernel
TD3 is doable with basically everything
shy plinth
Yeah, even on 4 or 5 sacks tbh
But if you're not used to it and you're trying to jump right to 32 it's probs a huge leap forward
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fYeJpxFXZBO2UycHOz4qt90T3ZurFZKCtg07UQNZVyc/edit?usp=sharing
Check the vods on this to see how people move and target boons etc
hardy garden
omg how are you supposed to do TD3? what's a quick shredding build?
https://www.leereamsnyder.com/blog/hades-build-guide good start for building in general
fringe spade
Hey guys
I’m trying to climb to H20 with all weapons
Which aspects should I use and which builds are the safest?
I use Poseidon and Nemesis Sword, Achilles Spear only, Zeus and Beo Shield, Demeter Fists, and Zag and Eris Rail
hoary pasture
Which aspects should I use and which builds are the safest?
A selection of good builds is in that link UnAnanas posted a few messages ago, at 20 Heat you shouldnt have anything that ruins your build
fringe spade
Hmm
Also which heat selections should I use?
I tend to run EM4 with Damage Control, Tight Deadline 2, Underworld Customs, Middle Management and Benefits Package
I don’t dare to touch Forced Overtime with EM3 let alone 4
hoary pasture
I don’t dare to touch Forced Overtime with EM3 let alone 4
EM4 is a difficult fight but it's a lot of heat and at this point you can still manage it fairly well, although it's not usually recommended, Damage Control is aspect reliant, I definitely wouldnt pick that on Beowulf for example, and on swords I would delay it if I can
TD3 is a pact worth learning and practicing
3 points of heat that can become practically free given you have decent room clearing and solid builds
The rest of the ones you mentioned are good options
You can start taking LC4 + SD
And potentially learn Forced Overtime
fringe spade
What’s SD?
hoary pasture
Stubborn Defiance
fringe spade
I also really don’t feel comfortable with Lasting Consequences
Running DD helps because in EM4 I almost always die more than once
hoary pasture
Well this is why EM4 is not recommended
As I said it's a hard fight, the higher you go in heat the less forgiving the fight becomes
LC4 is also worth 4 points of Heat
And it's quite easy
fringe spade
Really?
hoary pasture
You just have to use your Stubborn Defiance to heal, and practice clean bossing because you're usually gonna have a small HP pool, the clean bossing part isnt that hard when you dont have things like FO2 HS HL5 CP up yet
Yup, Stubborn Defiance with LC4 is quite straight forward
There is also a trick you can do with Stubborn Defiance which involves Athena's T2 Defiance refills, if you die (so you lose your SD slot) then pick up one of Deathless Stand or Last Stand in the same room it ends up occupying that slot, and when you enter the next room your SD replenishes but in another slot so you end up with 2 defiances, your normal SD (this one always pops first) and another DD from Athena which heals for 50%
And it's reasonably easy to force Athena in Asphodel and pick up a safe core from her then end up seeing her later for DDs
You can end up with 2 DDs and your usual SD
fringe spade
Whoa
hoary pasture
It doesn't, Stubborn Roots still works as it normally would
Not an amazing pick most of the time tho
Situationally it can do some work but not worth going out of your way to get it
fringe spade
Right
hoary pasture
Also Patroclus' first item (this one refills your DDs), is different when you use SD on the mirror, and it's a healing buff which makes your SD heal for 50% more, so you end up with an 80% heal from it, you can also find Touch of Styx items in wells (each gives +10% healing)
This makes Patroclus very strong for such runs
And the item lasts for the Hades fight assuming you get a 2 sack
And it lasts through the 3 sack if the Pat is a non-extension c34
fringe spade
Non extension c34?
hoary pasture
The last room in Elysium pretty much
honest kernel
patroclus is a blessing with LC4 & SD's
hoary pasture
If you have an extension then the last room would be 35
As in the last one that can normally be combat
honest kernel
if he runs out before hades kys and then try not to take damage
mossy zinc
Yeah, just go for it.
hoary pasture
Eris can dish out some amazing damage very easily yea
mossy zinc
Less thinking, more pew pew pew. 
nocturne stag
https://www.leereamsnyder.com/blog/hades-build-guide good start for building in ...
Bold of this guide to assume I'm using controller
honest kernel
fringe spade
anyone wants to see
OH MY GOD
Guys Chamber 1 hammer
And I'm given 2 amazing options
honest kernel
I actually hate chamber 1 hammer
hoary pasture
What's the third option
hoary pasture
Cluster Bomb is more damage and you can get Rocket as your second Hammer and end up with an amazing combo
Delta is safe since it keeps the dash iframes even if you're dash striking
fringe spade
True plus no more reloading
Delta doesn't need Rocket to work
But Cluster does
Hmm
Alright I'll gamble for Cluster
Mike wanna see me try this?
hoary pasture
Cluster doesnt really need Rocket as your second hammer
It's still a lot of damage
Its just open for Clockets
Unlike Delta
hoary pasture
I'm a little bit busy, you can stream on Twitch and post in #self-promotion or maybe in the speedrunning discord
fringe spade
Nah I don't have a Twtich
hoary pasture
Artemis is a pretty good god to see for your Special, if you think you can handle the Erebus go for it, Erebus gates past Tartarus can be really unfair so I dont gamble on them usually, but in Tart I take them often
They can also be more time consuming because you have to play safe to not get hit so it depends on your timer too
honest kernel
so you're trying 20 with every weapon? why not go for 32 instead 
honest kernel
nah nah nah nah just jump in the deep end bro she be right
fringe spade
Nooooo
nocturne stag
Bold of this guide to assume I'm using controller
I do like that the guide calls gilgamesh the best merciful end weapon because I know people don't like it and it amuses me
hoary pasture
I don't think it's anywhere near that
fringe spade
Did it
quartz mantle
More dashes doesn’t quite = more ME procs cause you still need to attack to give doom and gilga’s attacks are slower than regular fists
honest kernel
then the question is, what has the fastest dash strikes
quartz mantle
Regular fists
untold axle
i legit cannot beat the hades fight on 32 heat
and it’s because of the first phase lmao
shy plinth
What are you getting hit by
untold axle
What are you getting hit by
mostly just getting overwhelmed by the summons cuz i’m on em4
shy plinth
Uh
untold axle
i’m aware that i shouldn’t be doing em4, but i really want to win with it on
shy plinth
Okay so that isn't what you said lol
Em4 is way more difficult than anything on 32 needs to be
untold axle
well yeah
shy plinth
If you wanna do it go nuts but it's much harder than any typical 32 pact
undone tartan
i legit cannot beat the hades fight on 32 heat
No, you can’t beat the fight with EM4 on. You can definitely beat it if you just turn off EM4 lmao
untold axle
i was expecting this response from you guys as soon as i said what pact i was doing
shy plinth
I mean if this is the challenge you specifically want, just takes a lot of practice
There's no magic trick for it
nocturne stag
Me doing all the heat together max level for no reason at all
shy plinth
Watch retrash videos
nocturne stag
I wonder how fast I'd lose
undone tartan
mostly just getting overwhelmed by the summons cuz i’m on em4
Summons are absolutely garbage in EM4. You can literally just get bad RNG that makes it insanely hard to win
shy plinth
That was a monthly challenge a while ago
Turn on 64 heat and see what chamber you make it to
untold axle
my run that i just did was on pretty good pace, but elysium messed me up as always
i lost 2 defiances in elysium and couldn’t get another before hades
shy plinth
You're not using stubborn defiance?
undone tartan
Lmao
shy plinth
Stubborn defiance and lc4 is pretty meta at 32+
undone tartan
Just turn on LC4 and turn off EM4 and you have the easiest run
shy plinth
So the question is do you want to know what meta is or do you want to do it your own way
As long as we know what you're looking for we can help
undone tartan
If you’re stubbornly insisting on EM4 32, I suggest using DDs
You’re gonna need them for EM4
And just play super well in Ely I guess
shy plinth
I guess that's true but man that's like a 40 pact at 32
untold axle
i just need to practice elysium tbh
shy plinth
Sounds so unpleasant
untold axle
my run was perfect right before elysium and i got ruined during it
shy plinth
I dunno, you can make this easier on yourself if you want to
undone tartan
What you’re doing is probably harder than a good 40 heat pact lmao
Doesn’t really make sense to me
untold axle
yeah ik
shy plinth
If someone wants to do stuff their own way, I'm not here to say that they can't
untold axle
this is why my friends call masochistic
shy plinth
But it is much harder than it needs to be
untold axle
it’s just personal glory
undone tartan
Or just do heat normally until EM4 is actually optimal
untold axle
i have never turned off em4 once i unlocked it first, and i wanna see how much longer i can go before i have to turn it off
undone tartan
Do 32 and 40 without EM4, then eventually you’ll get to 50 and you can turn it on and actually get a heat number that matches the difficulty of your run
untold axle
lmao
undone tartan
That’s not a joke btw
untold axle
ik
undone tartan
I mean obviously it’s up to you
untold axle
it’s just funny how much i didn’t realize how needlessly hard em4 makes things
shy plinth
untold axle
the thing is too, that i sometimes find phase 2 and 3 easier than 1
undone tartan
It’s not just hard, it also adds potentially run-ending RNG into the very end of the run
shy plinth
And make sure to look over your mirror options
untold axle
aspect of poseidon on the sword, beowulf on the shield
shy plinth
Beo good tho
untold axle
and talos on gloves
undone tartan
Beo handles EM4 quite well
undone tartan
Fists and sword don’t usually take EM4 even at 56 heat
EM4 is genuinely unfair for those weapons
It’s very poorly balanced
Just doesn’t work on fists and sword
untold axle
my beo run was going super well today before theseus and asterius ruined me
undone tartan
Don’t use EM4 on fists or sword unless you actually want to lose lmao
untold axle
yeah i just wasn’t strong enough to fight hades with both the glove and the sword whenever i got to him
shy plinth
It's particularly difficult for those weapons
And those aspects aren't the strongest either
Again, it seems like you're opting in to extra difficulty every chance you can
As long as you're aware that it's a choice, more power to you
Beo shield is good
undone tartan
32 heat with EM4 on fists is unironically probably about as hard as 45 heat on a good weapon with a good pact
untold axle
jesus christ
shy plinth
Yeah you're really making it harder on yourself
undone tartan
It is extraordinary bad
hoary pasture
I really wouldnt say that
shy plinth
45 is probs a stretch but Em4 is quite challenging
hoary pasture
This is 32 afterall
shy plinth
Either way check out the heat prog above and also def run through your mirror to make sure you have things like dark foresight selected
undone tartan
It’s still fists EM4 though
undone tartan
I mean it’s easy if you have free DDs and a medium build
shy plinth
Merciful end pog
undone tartan
But so is 45 heat
untold axle
got it
hoary pasture
Well most people just hold down the attack button so ig that makes sense
If you try learning the fight and practicing maybe
Wouldnt be that hard
It's 4 points of heat that you're removing elsewhere
untold axle
mhm
shy plinth
Post your pact overall and your mirror if you want guidance
If not, glhf and dodge triple sneak
untold axle
i’ll figure it out as i go and tweak some options
em4 stays on tho
besides beo what are some other good aspects
for this kind of pact
nocturne stag
Gonna run max heat arthur just to see how fast I die
hoary pasture
Hestia Rama Eris
nocturne stag
I know Arthur is a bad choice for em4 but I don't think I'm getting to em4 like this
hoary pasture
Zeus Zag bow Zag shield
untold axle
noted
undone tartan
I know Arthur is a bad choice for em4 but I don't think I'm getting to em4 like ...
You’ll time out by chamber 10
untold axle
lol
undone tartan
I meant at best
untold axle
can’t post my pact here lmao
hoary pasture
Link it
untold axle
undone tartan
Oh my god
untold axle
ignore the bounties
undone tartan
CP2 JS3
untold axle
that’s not there
untold axle
lol
undone tartan
You really want Hades to have 78K+ health?
You want that?
That’s your idea of fun
undone tartan
CP0
JS0
Jury Summons is also very bad
Turn on TD3
Get rid of the things that make rooms slower and harder
untold axle
what about AP?
undone tartan
And since this is Beo, turn off DC
undone tartan
what about AP?
Bad
untold axle
ok good
i don’t know what i was thinking
i was getting crushed by some of those elysium rooms, cuz enemies just didn’t stop spawning
undone tartan
Yes
untold axle
and each one took forever to kill
undone tartan
JS3 Elysium is hell
untold axle
i willingly was choosing to have that
i can’t imagine how much quicker hades is gonna feel with CP0
hoary pasture
CP2 Hades is way too beefy
And it applies to everything
Rooms will take forever
Even the minibosses that he spawns are gonna be hard af to kill unless you have some amazing damage
When you get rid of JS3 CP2 you can handle TD3 very easily
untold axle
which is why i always got overwhelmed by them
hoary pasture
Summons are already a big wall in the fight
Making them much tougher to kill and making Hades also harder to kill so you cant burst through that phase is a nightmare
Try out different pacts and see how the whole run feels
untold axle
jesus it already feels so much better
im a real idiot for going with that previous pact
hardy garden
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/512825145279250443/964234037860380672/I...
ouch
pseudo kernel
Chad
pseudo kernel
Bestlos 😤
hardy garden
ewlos
untold axle
i have no knowledge of meta
pseudo kernel
I can tell
untold axle
lol
cursive portal
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/512825145279250443/964234037860380672/I...
🗿
thats genuinely horrible
MY GOD
raw cloud
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/512825145279250443/964234037860380672/I...
you should use gilgamesh too to maximize suffering
shy plinth
Hey some of us in here are gilga mains
raw cloud
why
shy plinth
It's fun
raw cloud
fair enough
solemn pulsar
Hey some of us in here are gilga mains
*gilga maims
shy plinth
I appreciate you
hoary pasture
pseudo kernel
oklos
shy plinth
RI1 is the worst tick of heat in the entire game
You need to get used to td3
Takes practice but it's definitely worth doing, won't be an instant adjustment considering you were running td0
shy plinth
Have you watched any of the vods from the leaderboards?
Just seeing the precision and focus that the runners use is really helpful
shy plinth
And making sure that you're being pretty intentional with your dashes
vague birch
get more poms i guess
shy plinth
Poms are nice but precise movement is a skill that shouldn't need in-game help from boons and poms
I had a pretty bad habit of punching air when I was first pushing heat
Would just waste time because I was jamming buttons instead of actually playing the game in front of me
shy plinth
What's the highest heat you've completed
untold axle
i think like 24 or 26
undone tartan
TD3 >
shy plinth
If you're jumping straight from 16 then it's a huge leap to 32 and I would def recommend slowly progressing
untold axle
can’t remember
shy plinth
I had a freak one-off fluke 32 clear but couldn't reproduce it until I went back to mid 20s and focused on learning fo1 and then fo2
But td3 is worth learning and I don't mind making sure you get used to it by playing for a few days
untold axle
it’s also important to note that i’m struggling with time because of bossfights
shy plinth
Because learning how to go at td2 speed isn't gonna help you for td3
untold axle
and because i needlessly choose to do em4
shy plinth
What's your pact at now
untold axle
33?
shy plinth
No I mean what are the options
And also I don't know if anyone ever asked you to post your mirror but you probs should
untold axle
i’ll post both my mirror and my pact just gimme a sec
shy plinth
Did you time out in the em4 fight?
untold axle
em3
shy plinth
Well then em4 isn't what's holding back your time 😉
untold axle
do most people play with em3?
shy plinth
Yes
shy plinth
FO2? Are you used to FO2? And damage control 1 is just wrong
Hard labor 1 is a lot less punishing
Or LC1
shy plinth
Are you used to it? It's a huge difficulty jump
untold axle
more or less
shy plinth
Otherwise this is probably about as good of an EM4 pact that you can get except for DC which is causing you time pressure
It would be a lot easier if you went LC4+SD instead of EM4
Like a lot lot lot
Also god's legacy usually worse than god's pride
Depends on the aspect, if you're going for specifically mirage shot or merciful end you probs want legacy
untold axle
alright then
untold axle
tyvm
hoary pasture
I’d take Chthonic Vitality and Fiery Presence, and only Legacy if you’re doing Flood Flare
untold axle
i always though CV was worthless for some reason
untold axle
that’s pretty good
but my caveman brain only thought about the present rather than the long term
shy plinth
Dark regen is more healing but usually it's after you need it
Vitality is healing on the way to the boss instead of after it
hoary pasture
You’ll already have a fountain after the boss so whatever
untold axle
true
hoary pasture
Chthonic Vitality is constant healing so I prefer taking it, not the biggest deal but it’s something
EM4 is a tricky fight and will punish you for bad habits such as dash striking mindlessly after a bullrush to start another or being greedy for damage etc
undone tartan
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/512825145279250443/964284882597605406/I...
Just making sure, you’re not planning on using DC1 for Beo right?
untold axle
i was using dc2 before
undone tartan
BRUH
hoary pasture
times out
lime elk
it'd say drop uc and pick up two more hl points
i don't like uc
oh wait it's em4 nevermind do uc
untold axle
UC is fine
untold axle
yeah
i just have some flashbacks from when i did a max HL run and hades did almost all of my health with one attack
or close to max HL i can’t remember
shy plinth
On em4?
untold axle
yeah phase 3
untold axle
ehhhhhhh i should be fineeeee
you guys are probably screaming at your screens while you give me advice
left prism
Em4 fun
Even if sometimes it kills you
untold axle
cuz i could make this no problem at all if i just turned it off lmao
hoary pasture
You’ll be fine that pact is good just give it some attempts
shy plinth
Like as long as you don't blame the game for the difficulty options you chose then who cares, do whatever you like
Nobody gets to tell you how to have fun
hoary pasture
Watch some vods if you have to and refine your builds/decision making
untold axle
Like as long as you don't blame the game for the difficulty options you chose th...
i was pissed off like crazy when i was doing that CP2 + JS3 + EM4 run
blaming the game as if i hadn’t made the worst life decisions
while i was using talos gloves
shy plinth
Honestly I'm impressed at that level of self-imposed suffering
untold axle
Honestly I'm impressed at that level of self-imposed suffering
i almost did that pact too
imagine that brag
undone tartan
I love when a boss’s strongest attack is also their fastest attack and also has the most range and also can fly from offscreen
Good balanced game design
untold axle
ah that move
untold axle
jesus people really hate em4 huh
hoary pasture
Well it’s really hard at the top
shy plinth
Not hate it so much as respect it
hoary pasture
At 50+
shy plinth
It's super hard
undone tartan
jesus people really hate em4 huh
I think it’s absolutely terrible ngl
shy plinth
Pancake hates it and has made that very clear repeatedly
hoary pasture
I love EM4
undone tartan
EM4, and BP2 are very badly designed pacts imo
hoary pasture
Most balanced fight in the game
shy plinth
Oh no
untold axle
the duality of man
half heart
I like challenge that EM4 gives
shy plinth
Gonna have to mute this channel for like an hour now lol
hoary pasture
lmao
undone tartan
EM4 is fun for my casual runs
half heart
I mean it looks stupid where all bosses expect Hades are changed
untold axle
i like em4
undone tartan
I like the idea of making Hades harder
But the way it’s done is very bad
The miniboss summon RNG is the most egregious thing but it’s not the only issue
half heart
Still way better than just increasing numbers like in other games
But true, summoning part sucks
You can get those pink balls and 5-hit protection keepsake says "nope, I'm out"
undone tartan
It’s sad because EM3 is great for the most part. My only issue is the spin because it’s boring and uninteractive for some weapons and literally free damage for others. But it doesn’t remotely ruin the fight
undone tartan
I used BP at the same heat levels that everyone does because it’s optimal but I think it’s an incredibly imbalanced and poorly designed pact
Did you know FO2 speeders are 210% speed
untold axle
lol
half heart
BP is definitely the most annoying condition for me
RI is scary
shy plinth
Nope haven't heard this before 🙃
undone tartan
Did you know HL5 Sluggers do 4x damage 
shy plinth
No way 
half heart
Oh God, listing all bugs 😄
half heart
I... don't even remember monsters names 😄
undone tartan
Did you know that savior greatshields take 10x longer
half heart
Sluggers are those fatty boys from Tartarus?
untold axle
probably
untold axle
my knowledge for enemy names only goes as far as zag occasionally saying them when he walks in a room
undone tartan
The only enemy I named was Greatshields
left prism
I rememeber numbskulls and tony vermin
half heart
I'm already so used to BP and FO that I can in one way or another defeat them quickly
undone tartan
Not how it works
Obviously
Did you know that a speeder brightsword on FO2 has a literally frame 1 attack (at 60fps)?
undone tartan
True gamers would simply dodge it
half heart
OK, I"m gonna apply CC on them before they do anything
shy plinth
Big purps
hoary pasture
happens
long minnow
I think I might have actually convinced my friend to take em4, hl 5 and cp1 for 16 heat
Idk though
I’m just gonna pray he doesn’t search em4 up
Or he searches it up but it’s a gigachad playing
pseudo kernel
send him this video of a gigachad playing em4 hades https://youtu.be/_aMtspvjq80
honest kernel
is that chaos DD?
honest kernel
Wait no it can’t be, what is the skull DD
pseudo kernel
skelly
honest kernel
Ah
pseudo kernel
didnt even use it 😎
honest kernel
forest token
is death defiance or stubborn defiance better for high heat runs? i've been using DD every time but after a bit of thinking i think SD might be better?
shy plinth
Stubborn with lc4 is meta at 32+
forest token
what's lc4?
undone tartan
📌
flat flicker
is death defiance or stubborn defiance better for high heat runs? i've been usin...
To elaborate on why, lc4 is 4 heat, and the play adjustment is to tactically die to heal via stubborn every room. It will require your boss fights to be better since you can’t just triple DD facetank dad any more but you get used to it. Make liberal use of the asphodel spa (stepping on fire to pop SD if combat ended and you have 4 health or whatever)
forest token
I need to improve on the lernie fight too lmao the arena is so small I just get shafted
But yeah makes sense
undone tartan
Lernie is hard
flat flicker
i did fresh file lernie it was so jarring
undone tartan
FF Lernie is actually very easy imo
flat flicker
it was, i was just implictly thinking i was gonna lose when i heard that one riff in the lernie song that comes on right as the fight usually ends and when that came on i was still on six heads phase
like im going half as fast as normal wtf
undone tartan
Yeah it takes forever
flat flicker
no i won on fifth run
like i beat hades
but
the champions were hard
luckily got smair 
that was the run calls were introduced
undone tartan
Oh I just meant first run
flat flicker
Yeah I can’t be bothered to reset for ME I just wanted to play on my new setup on the ps5 and…worth it I spent fifteen minutes looking around charons shop. Had almost forgotten how damn beautiful this game was
hardy garden
ff lernie is just a turn based battle
mossy zinc
Practice.
shy plinth
(Extreme measures 4)
shy plinth
(Or turn off EM4)
untold axle
well obviously that’s what it is
honest kernel
Pretend you have no DD/SD for the whole fight
untold axle
i lost my last run because i accidentally got hit by the cerberus summon during phase two, and then ran out of time and health for phase 3
essentially, i was rushing and got clumsy
mossy zinc
Turning off EM4 would make things easier for sure.
untold axle
well aware
but i’m going for personal glory
i’ve never turned off em4 since i’ve beat the game
shy plinth
To be fair you only earn glory if you beat it
untold axle
which i will
shy plinth
Get em
untold axle
i’m gonna have to keep practicing
shy plinth
GLHF
mossy zinc
And if you're not practicing, you should be practicing.
honest kernel
What aspect are you using
untold axle
mostly need to just go faster
mossy zinc
It's the only way.
untold axle
What aspect are you using
well i’ve been primarily using beo, but that last run i felt like using talos
untold axle
i think i do alright with it tho
shy plinth
Sure but why not demeter
honest kernel
If you want a free win you can use hestia
untold axle
i don’t like meta tbh
left prism
For what it's worth talos is kinda... what's the word
Oklos
shy plinth
I mean if you specifically want to make things harder because you wanna make things harder talos seems like the way to go
undone tartan
Talos is bad but EM4 Talos is a few steps beyond bad
honest kernel
untold axle
Talos is bad but EM4 Talos is a few steps beyond bad
i did manage to get further with talos on em4 than i did with beo, but that’s 100% cuz i’m worse with beo
undone tartan
What build are you using on Beo
shy plinth
Pls don't say fists suck man
I know you don't like em
But no need to be that negative about it
undone tartan
I mean they’re just bad. I’m not saying people shouldn’t use them, but Demeter probably doesn’t make top 10 aspects
Which is rough
Although I guess neither does any sword aspect
shy plinth
I really don't know if that's true and I'm not here to debate it
undone tartan
What’s a situation where fists isn’t bad though
jaunty falcon
Newer players are drawn to fists and so are usually more practiced with them
undone tartan
It’s bad at speed, it’s bad at heat, it’s very bad at hitless
shy plinth
Demeter is #7 on the leaderboard
jaunty falcon
185 op
mossy zinc
Ngl that's in spite of the aspect not because of it.
shy plinth
Sure it's retrash
Not gonna say that fists are what I'd recommend for anyone looking to do a 60
mossy zinc
32 it's fine, you can use whatever you like.
shy plinth
Yep
undone tartan
If you want to do anything and don’t want to make it harder on yourself, I can’t suggest fists. But if you enjoy fists then go for it, use what you like of course
jaunty falcon
:
shy plinth
I'd bet demeter 32 ME has a higher clear rate than a lot of aspects
jaunty falcon
Demeter 32 ME is ridiculously good
shy plinth
Framing it as an objective disadvantage feels like a skewed perspective based on personal preference