h1-high-heat-strategies

[hoary pasture]

I got it once on Eris on AP2

catch is, it was drunken strike eris and splitting was procing off of lightning reflexes

[solemn pulsar]

lava ass

lava sawmp

wait that's not tartarus

asphodel

shoot

nvm

ignore me

[hoary pasture]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/523766637757726722/930598478478966784/ydluob.png

[quartz mantle]

That is incredibly cursed I love it

[hoary pasture]

I was praying for a Zeus attack swap

lol

[cursive portal]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/523766637757726722/927150003040976926/20210116050328_1.jpg

F it, unproccable splitting bolt

[quartz mantle]

Empty splitting bolt

I love that so much

Shoutout to my Rama run with Splitting only procced by Scint feast

[cursive portal]

Nice

[jaunty falcon]

How on earth did you get this build on an anyheat run

[quartz mantle]

Looks like Athena was very rude

[jaunty falcon]

Worst gods pride I’ve ever seen

[flat flicker]

I feel like AP would hurt less if you just had two things offered rather than the “sorry about the epic jolted you can’t pick but enjoy this lightning reflexes”

just the lightning reflexes like…bummer, moving on

[honest kernel]

@jaunty falcon I can't exactly share a screenshot it's not on my phone but I remember my settings:

HL5, LC4, BP2, MM, UC, FO2, TD3

That's 30 but the rest of the options I just move around especially HL5

[flat flicker]

Functionally it’s exactly the same but so far I haven’t convinced my brain that’s the case

[honest kernel]

I've made it to Hades twice so far on these settings

But out of a 100 LMAO

[flat flicker]

This is a good place to start

[jaunty falcon]

Yeah swap HL5 for EM3

[flat flicker]

Add em3

[jaunty falcon]

And add JS1 or something

[flat flicker]

Damn, you beat me by one millisecond

[honest kernel]

EM 3 is rough on FO2

[flat flicker]

Yeah, but em2 still gets that to 32

And em3 fo1

Is a path you can take

[honest kernel]

Will I still make it in time despite not running FO2 in TD3? Thats my main concern

[jaunty falcon]

Yeah

What’s your PB

[shy plinth]

We're just looking for 32 heat clears right

Not speedrun times?

Assuming sufficient practice and a reasonable pact, TD3 shouldn't be a limiting factor for 32

[jaunty falcon]

I think so, don’t see there being an issue for clearing with FO1

[honest kernel]

@jaunty falcon what's PB? Sorry, not especially familiar with the lingo LMAO

[jaunty falcon]

Fastest time, or personal best

[honest kernel]

@jaunty falcon 16 minutes on the spear, 16 heat

[jaunty falcon]

You should be fine then

[honest kernel]

I also ran FO2 on the 16 heat as well tho

[shy plinth]

If you are dead set on FO2, here: HL1 LC4 EM3 FO2 BP2 MM UC TD3

No CF, basically no hard labor

This is the pact that I default to

[honest kernel]

Alright, I'll try those setttings

[shy plinth]

For FO2 you have to pay attention to hades

Can't just face tank

Took me a while to learn that fight again, empty dashing is important too

[mossy zinc]

what's PB?
fastest time

[jaunty falcon]

Wanted it to be clear that it was the best time, not best heat or something else

[mossy zinc]

Pastest Bime.

[jaunty falcon]

SMH I’m gonna beat your old rta wr

[shy plinth]

mmm... Peanut Butter

[mossy zinc]

Noooo!!! You can't beat my Pastest Bime!!! What will I do?!?!

[quiet mountain]

if fo2 dumping you try working dr into builds

[mossy zinc]

If you are dead set on FO2, here: HL1 LC4 EM3 FO2 BP2 MM UC TD3

[honest kernel]

LMAO

[quiet mountain]

owned

[shy plinth]

This also works

[cursive portal]

[flat flicker]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/809607727818342420/image0.jpg?width=1179&height=663 chad em4 and gods pride first 32

js3 and td2 lol

[next acorn]

Legacy is a scam

[quiet mountain]

legacy

[flat flicker]

the thing that isnt dark foresight

[hoary pasture]

Olympian Favor

Blue Side Hustle

Value gaming right there

[next acorn]

lol

[flat flicker]

[ember bronze]

I've been playing Pride more after talking about it that day

and wait, are people discussing easy 32 setups or fast 32 setups

[shy plinth]

I believe the conversation spawned around clearing 32 with the personal caveat that they were interested in playing an FO2 pact

Nyaanyaa's pinned build is probably the highest winrate pact and/or most common first 32 clear pact

The variation with HL1 CF0 FO2 is somewhat popular but historically people struggle more with +40% speed than double damage

[honest kernel]

Id rather have HL5 FO1 than FO2

[shy plinth]

It's an option but if you're going HL5 you shouldn't need any FO at 32

It worked better for me personally to learn FO2 instead of getting hit for a billion but the HL5 pact is a better recommendation

[honest kernel]

yea for my first 32 i did FO1 HL4 instead of HL5 CF2

[mossy zinc]

The most common first 32 is probably something entirely different that looks totally jank to us because most people who've done that probably just play on their own.

[shy plinth]

Well okay sure, the most common first 32 pact is "other"

But in terms of specific pact options I bet this is the one that works the most often

[ember bronze]

I mean you know my thoughts on FO 😛

[shy plinth]

I do

[ember bronze]

which pinned build?

[shy plinth]

Nyaanyaa's 32 Heat Guide
HL5 LC4 CF2 EM3 BP2 MM UC TD3
Stubborn Defiance
> Owl Pendant > Lucky Tooth/Acorn > Acorn

[ember bronze]

Lady Aphrodite with every weapon?

[shy plinth]

Nyaanyaa is a fan

[ember bronze]

(Is she called that in the game or do we call her that as an affection like Morgana from P5)

[shy plinth]

The second one

[ember bronze]

I can dig it

I generally like that for learning 32, trying to remember if there's any way I'd try to shave HL--it would only increase margin for error

[jaunty falcon]

Aphro start on eris

[shy plinth]

You could DC2 if weapon allows but it's a v common complaint for people to say that they struggle with TD3

DC2 makes that worse even on rail

[honest kernel]

“other” be like: HL5, JS3, EM4, CP2, FO2, HS, RI4, AP2

[hardy garden]

pass dash strats

[shy plinth]

Other pacts always have some amount of CF, partial LC, partial CP

[jaunty falcon]

Passion dash does only slightly more than pommed divine dash

It’s so bad

[honest kernel]

ive seen a lot of ppl do low heats with RI1. Wack

[ember bronze]

TD3 does legit require the most learning from how most people have probably been playing if they've never doing a 32

not disagreeing that it's learnable

[jaunty falcon]

Maybe

[ember bronze]

but if you don't know fast play--both combat and room choice--it will be a lot of work

[hardy garden]

well a lot of people also dont have darkforesight on

[jaunty falcon]

I probably didn’t do 32 until I was like sub 12

[hardy garden]

tbh em4 hl1 32 wouldnt be that hard but a newer player would probably time out a lot

[ember bronze]

Honestly a lot of people would probably win on FO1, but have to take some time to learn TD3

[honest kernel]

you can pause during choices so thats np

[jaunty falcon]

Newer players also probably aren’t best at getting good builds

So em4 is even worse of an option

[ember bronze]

yes, but if you haven't had to really contend with TD--you don't habitually take free rooms always, things like that, you have to learn it

and yeah, just having decent DPS builds

[shy plinth]

If people are jumping to 32 with no TD experience then yeah that's gonna be a shock to the system

[ember bronze]

(FYI: my first 32 was Chiron Low Tolerance)

[mossy zinc]

Is Lady Aphrodite called Lady Aphrodite in the game? Yes, she is.

[shy plinth]

Oh that was a priv status clear wasn't it

Priv status hype

[ember bronze]

I've never used PS

[honest kernel]

I had a triple bomb lucifer build with chaos flourish and i let my roomate whos never beat thesius play styx including hades and he was like “what the heck this game is so easy”

[hoary pasture]

I find pstatus very important for hangover chiron

[ember bronze]

It never made sense to me from a power perspective, and when I was learning, FF was stronger

(stronger than it is now)

[honest kernel]

even when he was watching my dash only run he said it looked easier than playing normally

imo build making is more important than playing well lol

[bronze rapids]

until RI

[jaunty falcon]

Yeah

[hardy garden]

for low heats

at higher heats you dont have a build

[ember bronze]

For context

[hoary pasture]

Yea I love running pstatus for 60 heat beowulf

[hardy garden]

well i still get carried by epic dio call

[hoary pasture]

[ember bronze]

When I was learning/climbing heats, trying to push for my skelly32

[hoary pasture]

I get carried by epic zeus call

[ember bronze]

I didn't know about closing the god pool at 4 and various other things

[hardy garden]

having a good call is so good

[ember bronze]

first 32 is probably someone playing pretty beginnerish by these standards

[shy plinth]

Yeah

Most first 32s are fairly cursed

[jaunty falcon]

Wonder what the best “first 32” weapon is

Not just the best 32 weapon

[hoary pasture]

I was too good since the beginning

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/841266682072530956/931680030856200232/860890017613873193.webp

[mossy zinc]

People laugh when I say this, but CF2 doesn't hurt newer players too much because they don't spend efficiently anyway. If they were gonna buy that pom to upgrade Tempest Strike, it won't hurt them if they can't afford the pom.

[ember bronze]

I'm playing with it now but thinking

[shy plinth]

Would be very surprised if it was not eris

Or hestia

[jaunty falcon]

Yeah that’s what I was thinking, eris

[ember bronze]

HL5 LC4 CF1 JS1 EM3 BP2 MM UC FO1 TD2

[hoary pasture]

I literally never touched Hestia until 50 heat

[ember bronze]

is what I got to tinkering right now

[jaunty falcon]

I did hestia speedruns before 50

[mossy zinc]

That's a good way to get newer players killed.

[hardy garden]

i did rama for my first 32 cuz i saw tailesque's 60 heat clear lol

[jaunty falcon]

So I was used to the weapon

[ember bronze]

FO1 might be wrong (I do hate it) but getting to 32 without it is either TD3 or other awful stuff

[jaunty falcon]

Rama was my first 32 as well

[ember bronze]

totally honestly

[hoary pasture]

Mine was demeter

[ember bronze]

play a weapon where DC is easy

[shy plinth]

I haven't seen a bearable 32 pact without TD3, HL5, or some amount of FO

[ember bronze]

and cut FO

[shy plinth]

You kind of get to pick one of those to skip

But you have to do the other two

[honest kernel]

yea low heats are so easy theres a lot of stuff ppl dont know about until post 32

[hoary pasture]

imagine my first weapon to 32 is my last to 50

[ember bronze]

like, I don't want to recommend a weapon since it's up to what the person likes

[hoary pasture]

by a long shot

[mossy zinc]

You don't really gotta start learning enemy behavior too much until 40+ tbh.

[shy plinth]

I will make the bold and controversial recommendation of Eris if someone asks

[jaunty falcon]

I’ve still only done 2 weaps at 50

[ember bronze]

but more of them are probably playing like Chiron/Eris/Fists? They're probably not using Beowulf Mirage

most of them can handle DC

[jaunty falcon]

With modded, I prefer speedruns

[mossy zinc]

Like at 32, you can still just do FO0 and run cicles around enemies.

[hardy garden]

speedruns and high heat are both pain

[shy plinth]

You probs picked the 3 most common aspects, wouldn't be surprised if Hestia is 4th

[hoary pasture]

FO0 is actually so slow

[ember bronze]

in which case, from my list--cut FO1 and add DC2 CF2

I agree, FO0 makes the game very easy

[jaunty falcon]

I dash too early in FO0 and get hit anyway

[ember bronze]

in hindsight, people who don't know the Hades fight well might die a lot on FO

I just think TD3 is equally deadly for many people

[mossy zinc]

See, the thing is that newer players trying to do their first 32 don't need a consistent strategy anyway. If TD3 kills them 1-2 times because they get bad sack RNG, they know they just need to not have bad luck next time to make it.

[ember bronze]

the player might have to judge if they know how to speed

[mossy zinc]

And learning to TD3 consistently is pretty easy anyway because you just need to learn some build basics and learn to play aggressive.

[ember bronze]

for some it's as you said

some people don't vibe with the clock at all

[mossy zinc]

They need to learn something anyway.

[ember bronze]

I agree if someone said "pick anything" I'd say Eris

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, Eris is pretty braindead for 32.

[ember bronze]

if they said "just get me there", I'd say Eris with DC2 and FO0 TD2

[jaunty falcon]

Yeah it’s so good that basically any boon on it will deal loads of damage

[mossy zinc]

Just do the same thing you do at any heat.

[ember bronze]

Zeus->Athena->Acorn->Acorn

[hoary pasture]

I remember doing Rama 40 in 28 minutes then doing Eris in like 14 and being sad about it

[jaunty falcon]

I got to heroes with no attack boon, delta chamber, and lvl3 flood shot

[hoary pasture]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/523766637757726722/930598478478966784/ydluob.png

[jaunty falcon]

Timed out

[mossy zinc]

I'd probably still recommend Tidal Dash over Divine Dash probably for Eris specifically.

[ember bronze]

That would be my "just try this"

[hoary pasture]

next level memer

over here

Doing boonless eris

[ember bronze]

newer players are helped so much by Divine Dash

The whole point of TD2 is that you don't need to optimize Eris damage bonus

you'll clear

[hardy garden]

well it also keeps them from learning to empty dash

[mossy zinc]

See, a half-decent speedrun build with Eris can still just hold Attack and mash Dash.

[jaunty falcon]

I had lightning strike but got natural sea storm, so sold Zeus attack but Poseidon refused to give attack

[ember bronze]

are we trying to get them a win or trying to build character 😛

[mossy zinc]

Eris with TD2 seems like a bad idea.

Well, m speaking from experience helping a ton of people get their first 32 clear.

[ember bronze]

And they tend to handle TD3?

[mossy zinc]

Yes. My guide has that pact because that's been the most consistent, generally.

[ember bronze]

Regardless, if the individual can handle TD3, I'm at the same place you are

[jaunty falcon]

As long as you get jolted, idt TD3 should be an issue for anyone

If they can’t, 32 heat would have killed them regardless

[hoary pasture]

If you have a decent amount of damage you're pretty much fine

[ember bronze]

maybe with basic speed advice like "always pick free rooms"

[hoary pasture]

As long as you're not super passive

[mossy zinc]

Right. Usually when somebody can't do TD3, I just tell them to practice that for a bit, and in at most 1-2 days they have it down consistently and then 32 comes pretty quickly.

[ember bronze]

mhm

[mossy zinc]

It doesn't just help them go faster, it also helps them learn to clear efficiently, which solves a lot of other problems.

[hardy garden]

aka point in general direction of enemy and hold attack

[hoary pasture]

if you use auto aim it's technically 4 buttons

[mossy zinc]

If you use Achilles, you don't need to aim. It'll always point you to the nearest trap.

[next acorn]

I feel called out

[ember bronze]

I do agree that part of the reason for Eris is being amenable to dashstrike spam

and no melee risk

and more or less fine even with nonsense builds

it's really hard to top

[next acorn]

https://www.twitch.tv/astaos/clip/AuspiciousPiercingBobaCclamChamp-4q3UbkjAOkwyXOoR

[hardy garden]

well youre pretty much in melee range

[hoary pasture]

I love using the achilles rush to evade a 80 dmg spin and jump into a 150 dmg trap instead

[next acorn]

[hoary pasture]

Atleast I die with style

I'm not the one who should be saying that tho

Because I play on kbm

[next acorn]

[ember bronze]

unrelatedly

tartarus seems to have the highest propensity to just give a room which is a total disaster out of nowhere

[eternal hare]

you have the fewest resources and some bp2 combos are just bad so it happens

[next acorn]

Cloners

[ember bronze]

yeah, talking about BP2 basically

[waxen relic]

Consider that Tartarus has the most rooms and you spend the most time there too.

[hardy garden]

infinitely spawning witches wasting all my td time

[mossy zinc]

Speedrunners spend all of their time there.

[hoary pasture]

literally

[next acorn]

[jaunty falcon]

Just get an elysium skip

[ember bronze]

Me attempting 44: spends all of my time there

[next acorn]

Meg% is basically any heat

[shy plinth]

Note: This only works if you are ananke

[next acorn]

Just playing tart over and over

See Ely once or twice

[hardy garden]

hades: escape out of reset hell

[jaunty falcon]

Grouping enemies is underrated

[next acorn]

Or Croven

[mossy zinc]

They skip not just Elysium but all of the other areas, too. Just Tartarus.

[jaunty falcon]

Or ocaml

[hoary pasture]

or magnil

[jaunty falcon]

Or 185

[hoary pasture]

just get lucky idk

get gud

[jaunty falcon]

Or zyruvias

Just play enough elysiums so you get one to be good

[eternal hare]

elysium being the fastest biome is very funny

[hoary pasture]

skipping elysium underrated

more people should try it

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/841266682072530956/931680030856200232/860890017613873193.webp

[jaunty falcon]

It would be the fastest biome in my PB if Beowulf wasnt so good at styx

Oh wait asphodel

Nvm lmao

[hoary pasture]

i have no idea what my pb splits are

[next acorn]

👏 Good 👏 players 👏 get 👏 two 👏 sacks 👏

[jaunty falcon]

Modded 1:50 3:20 4:59 6:18
Unmodded 1:58 3:46 5:46 6:57

In memory

[jaunty falcon]

True just roll the dice correctly

[hoary pasture]

I wanna improve my unmodded pb

[next acorn]

“How did you guess the right path on the first try?”

[hoary pasture]

but too many goals atm

cant keep up

[jaunty falcon]

I got mine too quickly

[honest kernel]

😤

[jaunty falcon]

Not beating it for a while

[hoary pasture]

I'd be satisfied enough with that

[ember bronze]

Honestly all of my personal Heat pushes are about whether I get out of Tartarus

obviously some of that is good build start (see Merciful End last night)

but it's more than that

Tartarus is just hard

On LC4 SD your health scaling isn't even that high--even late game, your health pool isn't that large

Elysium trash rooms sometime risk taking way too long--but risk killing you much less often than Tartarus

er, also, I am very bad at boss 1

[next acorn]

Only one of all my 50 RI2 attempts with Eris got out of Tart

Glad I ditched that pact lol

Tart hard though yeah

[eternal hare]

yeah but then you pick up patty and suddenly all your investment into health is incredibly valuable

[ember bronze]

shielding skulls

just a problem?

[mossy zinc]

This might sound like "git gud", but you should try to preserve any HP you pick up from Centaur Hearts and from Darkness. That'll help a lot.

[ember bronze]

yeah, trying to go to boss 1 with actual health is certainly important

I can't believe I'm dumb enough to jinx myself by saying this but

Tartarus Divine Dash Hunting Blades

let's see what happens

[honest kernel]

does FO2 speed traps

[mossy zinc]

No.

[jaunty falcon]

Does FO2 speed up the barge of death

[hoary pasture]

lmao

[honest kernel]

oh then i must be high

[next acorn]

Does TD remove barge of death

Can it

Pls

Actually no people would keep it off to get survival

[eternal hare]

no

[shy gulch]

so true

[next acorn]

Croven can you teach us how to not play Ely

[shy gulch]

my young padawan

the secret to being good at elysium is being good at tartarus and asphodel

[jaunty falcon]

How do you get good at those

Get good at elysium?

[shy gulch]

no u just play an ungodly amount of hours idk

[hoary pasture]

just skip them too

only part I would recommend practicing is bossfights

forget the rest just pray

[jaunty falcon]

Ah so I can use the best bossing aspect, Beowulf

No, Chiron

[shy gulch]

beowulf stinky

[jaunty falcon]

Hehhehehe

[next acorn]

It’s rng manips isn’t it

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/697204655339601933/932352544137674822/unknown.png

[hoary pasture]

exposed

[shy gulch]

missing shots is the secret to success

[jaunty falcon]

I think I’m gonna need a vod review of my hera

Times aren’t going down

Like they are with my beo

[next acorn]

[shy gulch]

are u flurry gang or triple gang

the turf war

[jaunty falcon]

Still don’t know

[next acorn]

Sploon 3 hype

[jaunty falcon]

Flurry triple is so good

But flurry on its own is hard to handle

And triple on its own feels too much like zag bow

I think it’s like cshot where I’ll just get used to flurry

[next acorn]

Imagine picking your hammer

Cringe

[shy gulch]

i mean a lot of times u should be doing zag bow esque things with hera

[cursive portal]

#video-games 🔫

[shy gulch]

unironically playin zag bow a lot helped me w my hera

[next acorn]

Turf war!!1!1!1!!1!1!1

[cursive portal]

I have decided that im bad at triple and flurry

[next acorn]

Have you tried being better

[jaunty falcon]

Could have got a PB today if I hadn’t selected the pact option “calesthenics program” from the pact of punishment

[cursive portal]

Simply turning off deterministic 🔨

[jaunty falcon]

Explosive is so good

Honestly

[shy gulch]

yeah explosive is sauce

its not great in asphodel but in every other biome i like it a lot

[mossy zinc]

Don't think Blinding Flash will help with Elysium skips.

[next acorn]

It’s just a rng manip

[rancid spade]

is beowulf or chaos shield better? or both are good?

[ember bronze]

Lost that run

[pseudo kernel]

beowulf

[ember bronze]

was a blessed build (for my first spear 40), but apparently literally do not know how to do FO2 Hades with Serrated Point and no dashes...

[rancid spade]

thanks

[shy gulch]

beo generally considered better, chaos doesnt rly have that high of a dmg output

[rancid spade]

i thought the throwing shields is high damage

but nvm then

[jaunty falcon]

Casts are just very strong and there’s a lot of easy ways to scale them even more

[rancid spade]

fair enough

[shy plinth]

Chaos is one of the lowest damage output weapons

[hoary pasture]

Also beo kinda thicc

[shy plinth]

It's hard to concentrate the hits

I don't think the base damage on a single special hit is all that high either, though if I recall it used to be super busted in EA

[flat flicker]

Same

[honest kernel]

https://imgur.com/nrnOlv0 this was my first attempt at heat 16 way before i joined this server

pact so jank lol JS2 FO2

[shy gulch]

yeah iirc its super small

15 maybe?

[jaunty falcon]

Yep

[flat flicker]

Based

[ember bronze]

Yeah, pre-nerf Chaos was one of my favorite learning weapons

[jaunty falcon]

Common Zeus is 200% extra damage

[next acorn]

DC2 GY

[mossy zinc]

Not quite. DPS was always low, but it was super safe and TD2 was more lenient overall than TD3 is now anyway.

[rancid spade]

btw which keepsake is usually worth taking in act3? acorn?

or just any 3. god if I have the boons I need from the first 2?

[honest kernel]

charon hourglass

[ember bronze]

Usually Acorn unless you're making an hourglass play?

[rancid spade]

oh right, thanks

[ember bronze]

Cast builds are way more likely to want the latter

[hoary pasture]

Usually if you’re on some heat outside your comfort zone you want a defensive keepsake for Elysium

[rancid spade]

true

[shy plinth]

Bull stronk

Acorn good

[next acorn]

Tooth also kinda nice

If your having a hard time in rooms

[flat flicker]

Asterius lol

[ember bronze]

Hmm, Tooth over Acorn on HL?

[jaunty falcon]

I take tooth mostly in EM3

[honest kernel]

tooth in elysium only if SD

[next acorn]

Oh yeah and Asterius lol

[honest kernel]

wait all most high heat is SD

[flat flicker]

not all of it

Chad 32 pact use em4 instead of lc4

[honest kernel]

chad pact use RI4 instead cuz SD bad

[mossy zinc]

Lucky Tooth in Elysium is comfortable. Can carry you until you have more comfortable max HP and maybe to Patroclus.

[rancid spade]

2. run in a row where i get the reqs for curse of nausea in ACT1, and then not get the in the run at all, while getting 2 other duo boons.... great

[mossy zinc]

Well, if you want a Curse of Nausea build, don't unlock other Duo Boons until you have what you want.

[rancid spade]

nvm misunderstood

well I guess, but even after getting those 2 duos, I had boons from ares and dyo like 10x after

and none of those 10 had the curse of nausea,,,

[mossy zinc]

10 sounds like unlikely.

[hoary pasture]

What kind of build are you going for

[mossy zinc]

Not a meta build.

[rancid spade]

curse of nausea build

[next acorn]

[hoary pasture]

Well what weapon aspect I mean

[rancid spade]

i didnt unlock the prereqs for the other duos on purpose tho

ah, chiron

[mossy zinc]

Also, what Heat are you playing on?

[next acorn]

If your doing drunken Chiron just do low tolerance

Aphro on attack

[rancid spade]

im not gonna keep track of 40 duo boons, i was just filling my attack-special- cast slots

13 heat

i mean its easy, its just weird how this happens so often

[hoary pasture]

Yea Low Tolerance is pretty nice

[shy plinth]

Cast is not a prereq for curse of nausea

[rancid spade]

i know

[next acorn]

Fill your cores with boons from the god you want your duo from

[hoary pasture]

But you really don’t need either specifically for a Hangover chiron to work

Just pom it up

[rancid spade]

is low tolerance better than curse of nausea?

[mossy zinc]

Well, I just gave you advice on how to avoid that.

[next acorn]

Unless you need another core from a specific god

Which you don’t on Chiron

[mossy zinc]

Low Tolerance is the best for Hangover, yeah.

[rancid spade]

i see

[ember bronze]

Low tol is 60% more damage, Nausea is 43%

[rancid spade]

so low tolerance prereq+ afro attack right?

[ember bronze]

with the downside that Low Tol has stacking delay

but with Chiron, you drop the whole thing instantly

[mossy zinc]

Heartbreak Strike + Drunken Flourish will unlock Low Tolerance.

[ember bronze]

So yeah^^that's your desired start

[mossy zinc]

Also btw, no problem with helping you, but this channel is usually for 32+ Heat (e.g., the High Heat Leaderboard starts at 32 Heat). It's like the endgame channel for the super tryhards.

[honest kernel]

low tol also gaurentees p stat

[ember bronze]

I haven't played Chiron in so long

What's good with it higher up? (how does it get AoE?)

[rancid spade]

ah my bad, I thought its for any heat

[next acorn]

That’s the best part

It doesn’t

[honest kernel]

^

[mossy zinc]

Tidal Dash.

[ember bronze]

CP over JS time?

[next acorn]

Splash dash probably

[hoary pasture]

it’s true

Tidal dash yea

But depends how high up

[mossy zinc]

Drunken Flourish kinda nice for dealing with JS, though.

Since you're just spreading Hangover and the DOT keeps doing damage behind you.

Just needs a lot for boss damage.

[ember bronze]

Get Bad Influence and it's enough room clearing?

[honest kernel]

what happens if an enemy has a weak hangover and u apply a bigger one on it

does it override

[mossy zinc]

Not really, but Drunken Flourish is at least better at room clears than Deadly Flourish etc. unless the Heart Rend build really comes together.

[mossy zinc]

Most recent one applies. But you generally don't want multiple sources of Hangover anyway.

[honest kernel]

yea i figured thats what it would do

[eternal hare]

the way chiron gets aoe in the 50+ range is to play it like zag bow

[astral peak]

Whats a good starting keepsake for zeus shield 32 heat other that thunder signet

[honest kernel]

I think ares special is fun

pr dio

[mossy zinc]

[astral peak]

Aphro special?

[gaunt fiber]

any special is good on Zeus

that's just amazing

[mossy zinc]

Heartbreak Strike, Heartbreak Flourish. Either one is good.

[astral peak]

Id rather take strike and let special for something cooler

[mossy zinc]

Just take whichever has higher rarity.

[ember bronze]

Can Serrated Point and Flurry Jab coexist?

[next acorn]

yes but taking serrated when you already have flurry sucks

[ember bronze]

whyzat?

[jaunty falcon]

Dash distance penalty, and the dash strike animation takes longer

[hardy garden]

serrated bad

[ember bronze]

I did just lose to it earlier...

two buttons meme

oh

can't post images

[mossy zinc]

Serrated Point is nice. Serrated Point + Flurry Jab hurts. You won't be able do a Dash-Attack without getting a follow-up normal Attack; and you won't be able to do a normal Attack into an empty dash because you'll get a Dash-Attack instead.

[ember bronze]

well it was Serrated Point in first room

[eternal hare]

if your first hammer is serrated then flurry 2nd is still an improvement

better to just get flurry first and not have serrated at all, although you may not be able to have that all the time

[ember bronze]

Going to try skipping it

SP feels amazing due to the DPS boost in Tartarus

but late game I want a good cast and good mobility so, better not to box myself in

[mossy zinc]

Serrated Point on its own is very nice for the DPS.

Ded unded = less dodging required.

Advanced calculus.

[ember bronze]

I can do advanced calculus. What I can't do is dodge out of the green line attack on Furies without somehow getting hit by two of them instead

[mossy zinc]

Well, they've got to stop hitting you at some point. Let me calculate the limit of their hits real quick.

https://tenor.com/view/mean-girls-lindsay-lohan-the-limit-does-not-exist-math-no-limit-gif-3546827

Was that too forced just to get to use that gif? Maybe. I stand by it.

[ember bronze]

Well, yeah, after using PL, I have proven that that limit does not exist

[mossy zinc]

If my math is correct, their hits approach infinity as your confidence approaches zero.

[ember bronze]

gasp she says, play with High Confidence

[mossy zinc]

https://tenor.com/view/yuuki-smiles-anime-gif-14882195

[devout quiver]

I like SP more just cause it's more brainless, but the lower dash range hurts a lot. Literally. It might be the death of you here and there

[mossy zinc]

Just don't get hit.

[ember bronze]

Me with SP, before Hades: I would simply time my dashes for every sweep

[ember bronze]

40 spear down

4-sacked, won in overtime

[next acorn]

poggie

[ember bronze]

https://imgur.com/a/4j2oX5S

[shy plinth]

Those beams

They're so beamy

[ember bronze]

Are people going to talk about my weird talents again

[pseudo kernel]

yes

why abyssal blood

i know this is a meme beams build

but why

[ember bronze]

here I thought this time it would be "why Stygian"

(not meme, I was playing to get a heat PB, this run worked)

[pseudo kernel]

nah stygian is better for meme beams if you get extra casts

[ember bronze]

I habitually play Abyssal until I'm doing something where a big bonus to attack/special scales well

(Rama)

but otherwise it's 30% multiplicative DR vs. 50% additive attack damage on builds that are either A) getting most of their damage from elsewhere (Hera or whatever) or B) working off a small base attack and a big additive multiplier (something like Eris)

[mossy zinc]

Abyssal Blood is underrated for boss fights.

[ember bronze]

Achilles is an example--if I do wind up playing Achilles melee with a cast that's not Hunting Blades or Beams ... or Ice Wine (ok fine the reason to play Achilles is the cool casts)

Then I'm already attacking at over +200% anyway, with Achilles, Deadly Strike, FF, and whatever else

Also 30% DR is a ton

[mossy zinc]

It's also 30% slow.

[ember bronze]

ya

[jaunty falcon]

Is slow multiplicative

[ember bronze]

I mostly assume so, because subtractive scaling would be so overpowered

(I don't know how they stack with FO)

[next acorn]

abyssal is really good on Beo tbh

[ember bronze]

I'm going to keep it selected for Beo 😛

[hardy garden]

abyssal nice for em4

[hardy garden]

i like how ive just thrown two epic thunder flourish and jolted zeus shield 56s

why am i so bad

[mossy zinc]

It's 56 Heat.

[hardy garden]

i was at champs with patty and like 250 hp then decided to first delete my acorn then run into spins and theseus' go kart and bombs

not very good idea

[honest kernel]

people are stupid for taking chthonic vitality in LC4 dark regen better

[ember bronze]

Bumped my lowest (sword) from 32 to 36

Easy Poseidon build that got everything

Lightning Phalanx, Exit Wounds, Rav Will, Snow Burst, Divine Protection to boot

[mossy zinc]

Nice nice.

Going for 40+ with all aspects?

[ember bronze]

All weapons for now

But did all aspects to 32 to, probably eventually 40 😛

[mossy zinc]

Go go!

[ember bronze]

Shield 40

choked a pot on Hades, Athena DD saved me

pretty fresh learning Beowulf, I stumble constantly with the movement on Hades with it--first time with Charged Shot was nice

[hardy garden]

https://imgur.com/a/J9Wbk69

[dapper schooner]

you should have just chosen not to get sneak butterfly

[cursive portal]

Simply a difference in skill

[hoary pasture]

Should’ve summoned 5 times before entering

Trying to fight the interrupt to get a bullrush out is so relatable lol

[mossy ledge]

._.

[mossy ledge]

what the hell is megaera doing there

[hoary pasture]

Companion

She was used there because the summons are pretty bad and you wanna get through this last phase asap before you take too much chip damage

[mossy ledge]

im too early into the game to have that

[hoary pasture]

Well this is the high heat channel so it's expected to see things like that here

[mossy zinc]

This is essentially the endgame channel.

[timber pike]

What are the best weapon aspects for 32 heat

[jaunty falcon]

Eris, hestia, Chiron, Beowulf

[quartz mantle]

All of them

Whichever one you enjoy playing the most tbh

[cursive portal]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/826053299525779456.gif?size=44&quality=lossless

except zag sword

zag sword sucks

[eternal hare]

Just run ME and it's fine

[ashen garnet]

Zagsword fast, Zagsword good

[timber pike]

Jumping from 12 heat to 32 heat was…quite the shift

Died to tight deadline not even out of Tartarus

[mossy zinc]

Try to get your clear times down to consistent sub 20s at lower Heats.

[timber pike]

How should I start doing that? My best run is 25 minutes

[hardy garden]

better buillds really. take more shops and free rooms

looks like the jump is more of td not 3 to td3

[mossy zinc]

Haven't watched it, but it's recommended in the speedrun discord: https://youtu.be/_bxwSsTPubI

[quartz mantle]

The in game timer pauses when you press escape and during menus

[mossy zinc]

More up-to-date than Wriste13's speedrun basics.

[quartz mantle]

Yea the guide is good but it's more speedrun centered and general

[mossy zinc]

That helps.

[quartz mantle]

it gives general builds for the "most optimal" aspect of each weapon

But good builds will carry your time

less time the enemies are alive the faster you will go

[mossy zinc]

It's good to a get a sense of what's possible ideally.

[hardy garden]

https://www.leereamsnyder.com/blog/hades-build-guide

also this

[timber pike]

Sounds very useful

[mossy zinc]

No, it's text. There's no sound.

[cursive portal]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/799734983702347787/902625493327691806/catting.gif

[ember bronze]

Did EM4 FO2 in a practice run, that was good

Probably can’t with HL yet

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, just build your way up.

You can probably handle him with HL5 with a strong build.

[ember bronze]

Is Blinding Flash and Parting Shot good on Athena cast builds (say with Poseidon)

[flat flicker]

yep

especially with hera where its wonky and shooting dudes in the face will trigger backstab

i think thats athena only but lmk if im wrong

[ember bronze]

Is that only a Hera thing?

[flat flicker]

i think so, but someone will come along to confirm sooner or later

[eternal hare]

it's a hera thing just because of where the cast comes out when you shoot with hera

[ember bronze]

Finally 40 sword

I'm really not good with this

[hardy garden]

high heat sword hard ngl

[ember bronze]

It took a pretty lucky build--I was way ahead and thought it was easy, but my Hades was damage was terrible so used up most of the buffer

I mean, still, 90 sec to spare on a 3-sack, but I think the fight was 3 mins

https://twitter.com/HamletEJ/status/1485849147957645313

Hamlette (@HamletEJ)

40 Heat with all weapons!

These were huge pushes, probably dozens of starts each on my 3 less favorite weapons:

Twitter · Jan 25, 2022, 5:36 AM

[flat flicker]

beam

[honest kernel]

can never make it past ely

either get comboed but huge dmg enemies or run out of time

tbf that was heat 32 on like my 3rd using controller but still lol

how do i not die to the bow ppl theyre like 3/5 of my elysium deaths

[hoary pasture]

Try killing them

Usually works for me

[honest kernel]

-hypnos probably

[hoary pasture]

If you’re in a tight spot you just have to hide behind pillars or keep good distance between you and them

At 32 heat you can get enough builds to burst stuff quickly

[mossy zinc]

What's your strategy? Aspect, pact, mirror, build.

[hardy garden]

just circle strafing at mid distance dodges most of the shots tbh especially against unarmored ones or with hypersprint or some extra dashes

[mossy zinc]

Killing them dodges a lot of their arrows, too.

A popular speedrun strategy is to just skip Elysium. You could try that.

[gaunt fiber]

You either have the burst to just demolish them or play along their attack pattern.
You bait a volley -it's three arrows-, dodge it and rush them.
You can also hide behind a wall, the arrows won't go through it

[devout quiver]

If they're not armored you can also just stagger them

Though that's not necessarily a given

[smoky bane]

I know this is probably an impossible question, but is there an approx heat level that this channel makes sense for?

[timber pike]

32+

Lower than that is considered low heat

[smoky bane]

👍 thanks

[bronze rapids]

well 24-32 is like mid

[smoky bane]

heh heh, was gonna say, 24 was my first wall

[bronze rapids]

if you go by the chinese players standards then high begins at 40

I faceplanted straight from 20 into 32 lol

[timber pike]

So you went from 20 to 32?

[bronze rapids]

yeah

[timber pike]

When I first tried 32 it was only after 12 as my highest heat. Needless to say it did not go well

Died to tight deadline 3

[hardy garden]

well you can ask whatever heat questions here anyways

[flat flicker]

My brother went 16 to 36

I also did 20-32

[rancid spade]

whats the easiest weapon/build to do 20-32 heat?

[flat flicker]

Won it my first try, lost my next twelve, then realized I had to git gud still and Samir rip current and splitting bolt isn’t reliably gonna appear

[hardy garden]

well easiest aspects imo are eris, hestia, zeus, beo, rama

[flat flicker]

Your favorite of the weapons unananas listed above

[hoary pasture]

yea those are comfy

[shy plinth]

I don't know if I'd call zeus or beo "easy"

[rancid spade]

thank you, will probly go with ramathen, I like the dio/ares build

[shy plinth]

Eris is the go-to recommendation

[hoary pasture]

if you go for Demeter fists ME its also kinda braindead

[bronze rapids]

Easy once you figure out how to play it well

[rancid spade]

hmm

[shy plinth]

If you like either of those shield aspects and are comfortable they're very strong, demeter is quite good and common to see

Rama good, people like chiron for whatever reason

[bronze rapids]

Lightning Eris is very good regardless of whether you like it

[rancid spade]

I like chiron too, but I guess rama is stronger

[shy plinth]

Chiron is slow and TD3 is not

[hoary pasture]

If you're used to Chiron you can make it work

[bronze rapids]

Rama 32 you can just put Ares or Zeus on special and rarely use the attack lol

[hardy garden]

chiron

[bronze rapids]

Chiron was my last 32 and last 40 bow

[hardy garden]

artemis*

[flat flicker]

Chiron is real good at low heat and the recency bias on players starting to push heat

[gaunt fiber]

Chiron is decent until you have no boons

[bronze rapids]

My first try of Chiron was my first 32 since it was on the pinned 32 guide

and my reaction was like "what is this garbage"

[rancid spade]

are there any weapons that use demeter boons? i feel like they can get really strong if you do a demeter build

[bronze rapids]

Lucifer maybe

[hardy garden]

achilles

[bronze rapids]

Arctic blast

[hardy garden]

just do zeus attack

[timber pike]

I hated having to constantly use the special

[hoary pasture]

She has nice stuff for cast weapons

[timber pike]

So I just didn’t clear with it

[bronze rapids]

The Nemesis WR runs Frost Strike, maybe you can match that

[hardy garden]

achilles plus crystal clarity can cheese boss fight pretty quickly

[rancid spade]

i will check it out, ty

[hardy garden]

but demeter cast is pretty bad until you get a lot of boons for it

[hardy garden]

[rancid spade]

slightly off topic, but do I need to unlock 32heat rewards to unlock the skelly statue, or I can just do 32 heat right after 20 heat?

[bronze rapids]

As long as you win

[rancid spade]

if its the latter then I could try diff weapons, but if I have to do 20-31 i'd rather not do it on all weapons

[hardy garden]

you can just do 32 whenever

[rancid spade]

ah nice

thanks

[rancid spade]

ik, just didnt know if that unlocked skelly or not

[shy plinth]

Tbh once you have the skills down you can 32 with basically whatever you want

[bronze rapids]

^

[hoary pasture]

even gilgamesh

[shy plinth]

I will not have gilga slander in here

There are dozens of us gilga mains

DOZENS

[hoary pasture]

I specifically said that because you're here

[bronze rapids]

I backseated Lando into a 32 gilgadash win so I'm counting that as mine too

[shy plinth]

:3

[bronze rapids]

I backseated Lando into a 32 gilgadash win so I'm counting that as mine too

[shy plinth]

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/0JI_4CF-rYNMzzwGWrS9t8DHRHASZ-HX2Xc_1mjXlHY/https/pbs.twimg.com/media/E9_O5KRWQAQdmuj.jpg%3Alarge?width=1083&height=609

Like look at this absolute nonsense

If this can clear 32 then anything can

[rancid spade]

LOL

LOL

[shy plinth]

The ol mistral dash sea storm gilga build

[hardy garden]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/918247076960292884/Hades_12_8_2021_1_05_28_PM.png

[bronze rapids]

that's basically gilgadash without the gilga

[shy plinth]

I just noticed that thanks to blizzard shot I have literally zero knockback boons???

Unless it still triggers sea storm

[hardy garden]

is your damage there just jolted and zoos call

and splitting

[shy plinth]

That's some big special rama damage

[hardy garden]

70 base damage with relentless stonks

[flat flicker]

Agreed, it counts

[bronze rapids]

Correction:
Low: 0-30
Medium: 31-41
Medium high: 42-49
High: 50-54
Ultra high: 55+
welp

[eternal hare]

sounds about right

[ember bronze]

https://twitter.com/HamletEJ/status/1486081486285537280

Hamlette (@HamletEJ)

Heat 45! New overall high:

Twitter · Jan 25, 2022, 9:00 PM

sorry, new overall "medium high" 😛

[jaunty falcon]

ROD

[ember bronze]

In Rod we trust

[jaunty falcon]

Looks like it’s time for the scary pacts now

[hardy garden]

tbh id prolly do js3 over js2 cp1 for rama

[ember bronze]

(I got Rod in Styx and promptly forgot about it for Hades, but an accidental Rod shot actually did the killing blow while I was hiding from lasers in oertime)

[hoary pasture]

this is hellmode?

[jaunty falcon]

Rod is unironically good

[ember bronze]

I had PL on so I had to use CP1, you just can't see here because Switch

[hoary pasture]

yea thought so

[hardy garden]

oh yeah the funny thing

[ember bronze]

I do think Rod is often good depending on setup

[hardy garden]

could do js1 ap1 for 46 prolly. rama doesnt hurt as much from ap1

[bronze rapids]

Highness is a social construct

[gaunt fiber]

true

and yeah Rod can be very good

[daring hedge]

true tail has returned

[gaunt fiber]

poggies

[daring hedge]

they recovered my account faster than expected

[gaunt fiber]

Goodbye Froggy

[honest kernel]

rod be pog when chaos give slippery

[jaunty falcon]

Plot twist, the hacker spend a week learning how to sound exactly like tailesque

[mossy zinc]

This is getting out of hand. Now there's two of them!

[hardy garden]

is it tailesque or merely an advanced chat bot

[mossy zinc]

Yes.

[ember bronze]

Are %cast damage bonuses (say Chaos) additive or multiplicative with Mirage Shot's 30%?

[mossy zinc]

Multiplicative.

[ember bronze]

does Mirage Shot embed two cast stones or one? I feel like I remember it embedding two, ages ago, but now not remembering seeing that recently

[jaunty falcon]

One

[mossy zinc]

I don't remember it ever lodging two bloodstones.

[ember bronze]

probably the old Dual Shot version

[mossy zinc]

I don't remember Dual Shot doing that, either.

Maybe @daring hedge does.

[daring hedge]

i'm pretty sure only one stone would've been embedded with dual shot

but i could be wrong

[mossy zinc]

Could have been a bug for a short while, maybe.

[ember bronze]

Does BP and/or MM affect anything during the EM4 fight?

[mossy zinc]

Nope.

[ember bronze]

just making myself an EM4 FO2 practice save

[ember bronze]

how do you Triple Shot butterfly miniboss without getting interrupted?

Also Alecto

[eternal hare]

It's pretty rng depending on if the butterflies start coming out where you start charging but it can be done

[hardy garden]

get epic hypersprint

[eternal hare]

If you miss that window at the start then you're out of luck

Alecto you kinda just hope she doesn't do radial projectiles but other than that just bait the melee swipes and go back in for the powershot

Misdirect the saw blades and stuff

There are a lot of reasons why imo triple shot rama is not so great and those are just two of them

If you're okay with just not getting off a powershot then you have more freedom to do short or mid charges

[ember bronze]

how about getting behind Theseus (with any hammers)--
When he's winding up a spin, he always goes towards you, right (unlike Hades) so he winds up facing that way? ideally you dash past/through and you're lined up?
But for a spear throw, can you do anything besides wait it out and then shoot him in the back when he turns away?

[eternal hare]

No not really, he locks on super hard when aiming the throw

Best bet is to try to just delete him when he's stuck in the call right after phase because he won't block at all

[ember bronze]

ya--but similarly hard to powershot during the call?

[eternal hare]

Yeah extremely difficult with triple but pretty free with twin

If you want to maximize value

Having acorn charges helps a lot

[ember bronze]

mhm

thanks

[bronze rapids]

or bring Skelly to redirect all the god attacks

[mossy zinc]

Just charm him.

[ember bronze]

it is hilarious if you can get him to kill Asterius with it

Shifting to EM4 (thanks for all this) while I practice

so is Acorn disfavored now because it tends to get eaten by things like Doomstone/butterflies/Sneak, or do you deal with that?

[mossy zinc]

Lucky Tooth is the go-to pick, yeah. But Acorn can still work.

Retrash put it like this: if you have very high damage, take Acorn; if you have very high HP, take Spearpoint; otherwise, take Lucky Tooth.

[ember bronze]

interesting on Spearpoint

why does Acorn ever fall behind Tooth when it is worth so much more HP?

[mossy zinc]

Also keep in mind that if the first summon is Doomstone, you want to keep Doomstone + some shards around.

He won't summon more enemies in phase 1 part 3 if there are already too many enemies.

[ember bronze]

oh!

huh

[mossy zinc]

So you can kill the Doomstone after that.

[ember bronze]

in other cases, do you tend to kill the first spawn and also kill the second two, or kill the first spawn and finish him off while avoiding the other two?

[mossy zinc]

Depends on your DPS etc. I guess. I just go with the flow. If I can get a good shot on Hades, I'll almost always take that.

[ember bronze]

mhm

[daring hedge]

that's a feel-it-out thing for me, yeah. sometimes i kill all the spawns and sometimes i just dance around them while focusing hades

[ember bronze]

so out of neutral (depending on phase), he can:
spin-spin
slash-slash-spin (unchanged)
slash-slash-throw (new)
throw immediately
spam out 3 skulls
do some kind of charge after you?
lasers

(other stuff like darkness and pots, but just thinking of attacks)

I feel like what gets me behind, mentally, is just skulls

processing what to do about them without missing a sweep or something

[mossy zinc]

It's good to have one of the rocks between you and Hades whenever you're dealing with anything else.

[ember bronze]

on slash-slash-throw, you can dash the throw with timing alone

what about on e.g. Darkness into throw--is there an audio cue?

I feel like the easiest punish is the double spin

[ember bronze]

I can do EM4 FO2 just reloading a practice save at the boss, every time

I'm not sure this has much relevance as it does not simulate the way I will mentally unravel in any real run

[mossy zinc]

Practice with HL5 and HS on, too.

And maybe also CP2.

[ember bronze]

yeah--they're off for now because, I mean, I can see whether I'm getting hit or not, I just want to do full attempts

CP2, probably won't be using that a while 😛

[mossy zinc]

You won't play in a new PB run the same way you play during practice, but the practice will still help.

[ember bronze]

I should use DC2 next time for skulls

[mossy zinc]

It'll make you a lot more comfortable in runs without CP2 if you practice with CP2.

[ember bronze]

Ya, can definite add training weights and get back there

I also had 5 dashes

good to just repeatedly see the fight though

[mossy zinc]

Right, but you'll be a lot more nervous against HL5 dad.

[bronze rapids]

Some high heaters do practice against dad yeah

though they're on the HL5 FO2 CP1+ levels of heat

[quartz mantle]

If you’re looking for stuff on EM4 specifically Nephi wrote up a really good EM4 guide going over basically everything you could ask for https://docs.google.com/document/d/126vagPhjSWQMR1x8O9tJT3neweSTdUUfw2pNVjqX7lU/edit#

[agile flame]

Do people ever go for erebus gates on high heat? It seems so dubious to go for

[hoary pasture]

Tartarus ones can be nice

Depends on weapon and build tho

Beyond that it gets messy in there and it's tough to not get hit

[eternal hare]

yeah some people will take a big heart from an early erebus since having that extra buffer in tart is amazingly safe

other than that not really

[hoary pasture]

You also have time to worry about, Tart Erebus usually comfy

[agile flame]

Yeah time was a big concern I had

I'll try grabbing erebus in tartarus then, thanks guys

[cursive portal]

erebus more like

lol

[bronze rapids]

Is the Erebus enemy pool the current biome + next biome

[cursive portal]

once took an arti erebus on 54 hesty

the boon I wanted got crossed out

[bronze rapids]

[cursive portal]

ch34 lol

[shy gulch]

iirc bright01's 50 heat poseidon takes an enshrouded curse, so he blind takes an erebus gate, gets hit and takes onion

[cursive portal]

took an entire minute

[shy gulch]

so homie never figured out waht the erebus was for

[jaunty falcon]

Hopefully it was Demeter cast replace

[cursive portal]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/826053264805068830.gif?size=44&quality=lossless

[eternal hare]

not quite, they just have their own custom sets of enemies

like you can get flame wheels in tartarus

[ember bronze]

This is great

[solemn pulsar]

Elite is normal armored enemy. Super-Elite is the special one summoned by Hades, that has a ton of armor and different attack patterns.

Tartarus

• Witch (Regular + Elite + Super-Elite)
• Numbskull (Regular + Elite + Super-Elite)
• Brimstone (Regular + Elite)
• Flamewheel (Regular)
• Bloodless (Regular)
• Wretched Thug (Regular + Elite)
• Wretched Lout (Regular + Elite)

Asphodel

• Super-Elite Archer
• Super-Elite Wretched Lout
• Super-Elite Witch
• Super-Elite Voidstone
• Super-Elite Swordsman
• Bloodless (Regular + Elite + Super-Elite)
• Elite Brimstones
• Spreader (Regular + Elite) (Asphodel Witch)
• Gorgon Heads (Regular + Elite)
• Flamewheel (Regular + Elite)
• Inferno Bomber (Regular + Elite)
• Slam Dancer (Regular + Elite) (the one that bombs in place)
• Burn Flinger (Regular + Elite) (the one that pitches the bombs)
• Wavemaker (Regular + Elite)

Elysium

• Super-Elite Butterfly Ball (EM4 summon)
• Super-Elite Megagorgon (EM4 summon)
• Super-Elite Burn Flinger
• Super-Elite Nemean Chariot (big one)
• Super-Elite Wretched Lout
• Voidstone (Elite + Super-Elite)
• Archer (Regular + Elite + Super-Elite)
• Greatshield (Regular + Elite)
• Spearman (Regular + Elite)
• Longspear (Regular + Elite)
• Swordsman (Regular + Elite)
• Splitter (Regular + Elite) (Elysium witches)
• Nemean Chariot (Regular + Elite)
• Flamewheel (Regular + Elite)
• Butterfly ball (normal from rooms)

[ashen garnet]

Having a clear in mind, general opinion is to take Erebus if you can manage not getting hit and it does not make you timeout. There are exceptions, but in general Ely Erebus are not taken because of bballs and extra beefy super elites/BP perks

[bronze rapids]

Also pre-endshop Erebus can be a way to roll for 2 free things instead of one

Provided the time loss is affordable

[solemn pulsar]

and unlike chaos/minibosses/certain OTHER rooms, you can get midshop out of erebus

[ashen garnet]

Usually taking Erebus until mid asphodel as RI2 hp compensation or if the right god is showing up for my build since they have improved rarity

[bronze rapids]

I've never seen a mega gorgon in Erebus

then again I've take Ely Erebus like what, twice

Can a late tart Erebus be faster than the room it replaces

[ashen garnet]

Can be, particularly if it spawns only one super elite

[quartz mantle]

Ykc’s successful 62 heat run failed an Erebus I’m pretty sure

[bronze rapids]

One of damue's WRs failed one too

Zag said "hope nobody saw" and one of the live comments was like "nope we all did"

[jaunty falcon]

Super elite numbscull is so good

[bronze rapids]

it taught me to not stand right on top of small spawn circles hoping to instakill

[quiet mountain]

i never noticed they had diff atk pattern

[ripe ermine]

I’ve failed so many Tart Erebus gates to those super elite numbskulls

[solemn pulsar]

This usually only happens in early ones tho, since they scale with depth too

Classic chamber 2 Erebus that’s just 1 super elite witch with 1000 armor

Always worth megging lol

[bronze rapids]

I got a seed like that once

Failed 5 times and decided to heck with it, and Megged

[hoary pasture]

It's kinda scary

too many projectiles

[ashen garnet]

They scale the same way as normal rooms but with a flat + if I recall correctly?

[jaunty falcon]

Sub 5 exit with JS3 CP1 https://imgur.com/a/KqUUHKP

[hoary pasture]

HL2

[jaunty falcon]

Listen I dislike guan yu

Can’t dodge

[eternal hare]

what a funny pact

[jaunty falcon]

Ok it was gonna be AP1 HL0 but epic aphro special was crossed out c1

[hoary pasture]

maybe if you had less enemies to dodge

[cursive portal]

Based

Could have just done fo1 hl5

[ember bronze]

Meg vs. Sneak technique?

[hardy garden]

https://imgur.com/a/d1qiq5c wait for teleport and meg the instant it shows up

[solemn pulsar]

Yeah but the single enemies are more likely early on because of how the generation calls stuff I think

[hardy garden]

also you have a longer window when it does the backstab

[flat flicker]

i got it once and havent done an elysium erebus since lol

[hoary pasture]

If you forget and the wringer spawns don’t meg

Speaking from experience

[flat flicker]

room 1 erebus pom on beowulf

is like

getting a golden ticket

unless you blow it

in which case restart lol

[ember bronze]

I should probably learn Meg instead of Antos

Antos is an out for a bad boss 1, is more ST damage when it's reliable, does things like auto-solving Sneak. But loses some use cases to being unreliable, like bursting through the end of Hades phase 1 while adds are up

[mossy zinc]

Double Pom, double Centaur Heart, and high rarity Lord Hermes all pretty much have better value than other chambers even if you can only clear Erebus just above half the time.

Other things being equal.

Well, trials would still have better value and free rooms if timer is a concern at all.

Also Patroclus and Eurydice for sure.

Pom of course depends a lot on what your boons are. But if you can clear 3/4 times it's as much monetary value as a boon, so if you can clear more than that it's worth more on average.

Centaur Heart is as much as a boon if you can clear just 6/10 times.

[gaunt fiber]

Yes if early/mid tartarus

the value you get out of it is insane. If you miss, you reset the run, no big deal

past tartarus these gates are life threatening and a huge time investment

[hardy garden]

dire bball and chariot gates

[ember bronze]

Situations in real runs where you buy the Anvil?

[shy plinth]

If you are wile e. coyote

[hoary pasture]

Unmodded

[hardy garden]

tbh i once anviled when i had serrated and explosive launcher on hades spear and it actually didnt get rid of explosive

[jaunty falcon]

If you have repulse explosive on Rama

[hoary pasture]

If you get a second hammer that actively hurts you you can gamble..

[ember bronze]

I mean cases I can think of are:

[hoary pasture]

Like Dash Nova or something

[ember bronze]

some hammer is really important on a weapon and you missed it (Flurry Shot/Flurry Jab)

[hardy garden]

dont anvil on sword yeah

[ember bronze]

but also a weapon that doesn't have truly problematic hammers

[jaunty falcon]

Maybe if you have one of the parts of clockets

[hardy garden]

idk about flurry shot

[ember bronze]

(yeah, sword)

[hoary pasture]

Don’t take second hammer on sword better

[hardy garden]

imagine cursed, flurry, dash nova

dont even need to have ap

[jaunty falcon]

Flurry slash should just work like flurry jab

[hoary pasture]

A lot of the time if I get a bad hammer that actively hurts me I just reset

[gaunt fiber]

I'd take anvil if only the hammer that I want could give me the power needed to kill Hades fast enough

[hoary pasture]

If I decide to play it out and really have no hope of winning the fight I could anvil yea

[gaunt fiber]

so on the aspects I play, never

basically a desperate situation

[ember bronze]

mhm

[hoary pasture]

Explosive Rama kinda gud

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/841266682072530956/931680030856200232/860890017613873193.webp

[jaunty falcon]

FO0 behaviour

[honest kernel]

foo

[ember bronze]

I mean I agree, like, how often are you playing at the endgame with two significantly below-average hammers

just curious

[hoary pasture]

Retrash: all the time

Some weapons can be fine with 2 subpar hammers

[jaunty falcon]

Retrash will get to dad with frost strike on zagrail flurry piercing with 7 mins left

[hoary pasture]

And by some weapons I mean Beowulf

[jaunty falcon]

Beowulf has a block and a non-hammer damage source

What can I say

[honest kernel]

the beo exclusive is nice

[ember bronze]

The sturdy one?

[jaunty falcon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/933794559274647592/Hades_43.png just saying

(The hammer did nothing, I had hyper sprint)

[hoary pasture]

A beo pb with fully loaded

Must be a route or something

[jaunty falcon]

Felt so clean as well

Didn’t have mark, clean kill, hunters instinct

Or any of those other garbage arti boons

[hoary pasture]

v nice stuff

I wanna go back to the anyheat action

Kinda fun switching back and fourth with high heat

Feels good when you can go fast and phase bosses and whatnot

But then you switch back to high heat again..

[jaunty falcon]

Heroes were quite quick in this run

Dad wasn’t rlly

Well 38s isn’t so bad

[honest kernel]

how often do you take sisyphus when u arent low on time

[jaunty falcon]

Speedrunning instincts say every time

[honest kernel]

its essentially just a coin room that you dont have to fight for

pretty underwhelming compared to the other (!) rooms

[gaunt fiber]

always

[eternal hare]

it's just a matter of perspective tbh

[gaunt fiber]

just always

[eternal hare]

I think 100 gold that early in the run is incredibly impactful

[jaunty falcon]

And can potentially save 30-40s if you’re skipping c12

[eternal hare]

yep

[honest kernel]

i ask this because in a build that needed poms, i got the choice of sisyphus vs pom, which charon evaluates to be ~100. The pom room is at least very close in value to it.

[mossy zinc]

180 with CF2.

With any CF and if timer isn't too much of a concern, the pom is more valuable on average.

But it depends a lot on what boons you have and if you have any AP.

[ember bronze]

Why would I rez to 100%HP if I have Touch of Styx Dark, no other Styx buff, and no Last Stand

[honest kernel]

whats ur max hp