h1-high-heat-strategies

[bronze viper]

The skill is consistency. Yeah when you get above an extremely high (like 55+) threshold, you're opening a slot machine simulator, but you have to be good enough to win the run when RNG favors you

Also the better you get the less RNG you need

[undone tartan]

Oh ofc, I could never do 64 heat even with the best route, and anyone who can is extremely impressive. Still, when pushing new ground the barrier seems to be RNG more so than skill

[bronze viper]

So, e.g. for max heat, "lucky" would be getting poms on your one core boon and getting a relevant tier 2 in the first couple of biomes. Plus common Greatest Reflexes

But for 50 heat, that level of luck is extremely mid

[bronze viper]

Yeah that is certainly true. When someone is pushing their heat PB it's probably likely that RNG is a stronger contributing factor than usual.

[undone tartan]

I just think that’s unfortunate, but it’s also so completely tied to the way that the game works that it’s hard to really separate it

[shy plinth]

The skill is in the fortitude

It's a total attrition grind and the paths to success are narrowed by the game's mechanics in a way that often results in dead ends at max heat

Wasn't really intended to be pursued competitively and we don't see much engagement with 64 because of it - it's beyond what most people would consider fun

If I were going to a buffet I could choose different things every time but would never feel like it would be possible or enjoyable to eat everything they have

The big upside of the mix-and-match portion of heat results in the very extreme end of it being a little warped

[bronze viper]

It's not really "unfortunate" as it is just the way that things work for pretty much anything that has any element of RNG, if you push it to its logical extreme.

[undone tartan]

Yeah, I know

[shy plinth]

It's a byproduct of roguelike mechanics

[bronze viper]

And people pushing 60+ are like, countable on one hand. For us mere mortals, the loop of "oh I need to get lucky" -> "oh I need to get less lucky, I guess I can push further" is incredibly satisfying

[shy plinth]

Yeah it really is like 4-5 people

The 60+ squad is like... CN players and Baj lol

Don't think Tail is still going hard

[bronze viper]

There are a couple of people who have it under their belt to say that it's under their belt, but the people pushing past 60 are basically just those people lol

[undone tartan]

Yeah I only think it’s unfortunate because pushing for world records seems like a very unenjoyable thing, which will probably lead to top players moving on earlier than with some other games. But again I’m no top player so I might be off on this

[shy plinth]

I think a single player game having multiple years worth of record pushing in both speed and difficulty is a pretty good thing

There's gonna be an expiration date at some point but the line is still moving

[bronze viper]

Honestly, I feel that way about speedrunning in general. It seems grueling and at least to me personally, immensely unsatisfying.

[shy plinth]

It's just harder now to gain edges

A lotta people play mario 1 for hours a day to gain 15 frames of time

[bronze viper]

Which makes it more impressive to me when people have the fortitude to actually do it lol

Like, honestly, if I see someone get 6 minute IGT clears in Hades, I don't just think "oh wow that player is really good."

There is definitely a cap for technical ability that is achieveable at 6 heat lol. What I do think is "oh wow they had the patience to do that"

[undone tartan]

That’s fair, but for challenge runs it’s often a different situation. For instance, R5AB in HK has yet to be beaten and I believe there are some incredibly good players who grind at it at least sometimes. Or golden strawberries in Celeste, although those have greatly increased longevity due to modded levels. That’s where my examples stop because those were my main other games… but I’m sure there’s more

[mossy zinc]

I can only do speedruns for 2-3 days before I want to do something else lol.

[shy plinth]

There's some variance in enemy patterns or whatever in r5ab but sure

Just diff mechanics at play here

[undone tartan]

Absolutely, but no patterns are impossible

[hardy garden]

ig you can do 61 heat td2

[undone tartan]

There is not level of RNG that is required

[shy plinth]

I mean you could argue that if you just don't get hit in hades and have perfect execution that you would do fine

Unclear if that's true

[mossy zinc]

One thing that's been more fun for me when speedrunning is focusing on pushing down my average clear time rather than my PB.

[shy plinth]

But the argument could be made

[bronze viper]

Yeah, likewise it's a healthier way to look at extremely high heat to be "well I'm performing better in these types of rooms, or in this biome, or against these bosses in general over time, so the clear will just come to me when RNG smiles"

[flat flicker]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3q5nSqGXr4

[undone tartan]

A streamer I watch was recommended that video and said something to the effect of: “There’s not just two types of gamers. I mean, most gamers aren’t either of those, they’re just bad.”

[shy plinth]

Sounds like a positive mindset 🙃

[undone tartan]

But on the other hand, for people who aren’t pushing the very top hardest accomplishments, the RNG actually gives longevity to the game. For me, I can do a runs of P5AB and say “yeah this is just way too hard for me, I don’t think it’s ever gonna happen”. But with Hades, I knew that with good enough luck I could get 50 heat and that’s what kept me grinding and playing for 660 hours compared to my 450 in HK. But also, that could just be on account of the more lenient difficulty curve compared to the absurd difficulty spikes in HK

[flat flicker]

I mean it’s all about your own goals. Some people wanna be the very best like no one ever was. Others wanna beat 32 heat w random weapons and meme beam

[undone tartan]

That doesn’t sound like honer vs innovator, that sounds like player who is dedicated to be at the top vs player who just enjoys doing things in the game

[shy plinth]

The way to understand this is to talk about approach, not accomplishment

[shy gulch]

i will say that a lot of what you guys mentioned about high heat feels applicable to speedrunning

[shy gulch]

this is how i felt as i kept pushing

a lot of the satisfaction came in looking back and seeing that i need so much less rng to get times that i once thought the stars needed to align for

[mossy zinc]

The way to understand honers vs innovators is that the video is entirely based on four short paragraphs in one interview. https://www.vice.com/en/article/kwpbg9/an-interview-with-richard-garfield-creator-of-magic-the-gathering

[shy gulch]

then to get the PEAK peak times... yeah that takes a lot of rng LOL and a lot of it is being able to play consistently for ur whole grind

[shy plinth]

Richard Garfield himself

[flat flicker]

Im happy pushing 32 on bad weapons and 40 on good ones

[mossy zinc]

Sure, but "one way I like to divide players up..." isn't "our research shows" and "here is where you can find our research." And making a 15-minute video based on 4 short paragraphs that you've read is a bit much.

[shy plinth]

Sure

[bronze viper]

Yeah I totally agree. Part of what made Baj's 64 routed run so sick was that he got to Dad in 12 minutes. There was so much of that RNG he just didn't need (and he only got Splitting in Styx iirc)

[quartz mantle]

Yea he got splitting in the last Styx tunnel

[bronze viper]

It's imperfect but game design/theory is a definitely a newer field. E.g. I have never been to a class on game design where one of Mark Rosewater's articles was not used as basically a textbook.

And as amazing of a game designer as he is, most of his articles are just his streams of consciousness with editing for grammar, very Greek philosopher style lol.

[mossy zinc]

All the more reason to bring some rigor into it.

[undone tartan]

YOO RICHARD GARFIELD

I used to play a ton of MTG

[honest kernel]

62 -> 64 heat (basically RI4) is a push that is very much unforgiving. You can't afford many mistakes, and you can't take it too slow either, else you end up at the whims of the timer. It's much less RNG reliant then I first imagined, altho I am doing modded to avoid the purely RNG things (Sack RNG, starting boon not getting ap'ed + first hammer set ...) And instead focus on getting better at the things that the player can handle (Difficult Rooms, bosses, Build-decision making ...). Those RNG things are the biggest deterrent by a long shot, because it takes many resets to have a run that's even possible to clear from a mathematical standpoint, but there is a lot that can be done outside of those.

And honestly the reason why I keep going. I still have to learn the 64 heat Styx biome, even on a 2-sack

And then I have to show that I can do EM4 with Accorn and at best 2 hits to my HP pool.

God keepsake -> Lucky Tooth (Pop after the Lernie fight, ideally) -> Accorn -> Accorn is the keepsake order that let's me focus on getting poms/gold so that I have sufficient damage to be able to do these things

As the age-old saying goes, I just need to git gud and avoid as much damage as possible in the rooms and bosses

Without losing too much time

[bronze viper]

Lol, yes, this is something we can all empathize with. Telling yourself to "git gud" as you approach completing 64 heat.

Just Baj things.

[naive furnace]

ledge, can you help me?

[bronze viper]

?

[hardy garden]

I didn't expect getting this far https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/825862916561305643/900946490271367228/Hades_10_21_2021_8_18_33_PM.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/900949074121990234/Hades_2021-10-21_20-27-29_Moment.jpg

rama op

[placid bronze]

Thought it was your first time doing that heat - grats on unhuman gaming, still

[bronze viper]

This build is unreal for AP2 lol. Congrats!

Also loving the Triple Point Blank Splash Dash build. My specialty

[next acorn]

[bronze viper]

"Well Tidal Dash isn't ever really bad, right?"

[next acorn]

Idk man as someone with around 10 40 heat runs under my belt I will literally always take Divine Dash over pretty much everything unless…the build really requires a specific dash to create a broken interaction, Divine Dash is good with every build, every weapon, and is simply incredible. I agree with the top post of this comment chain that 8.5 is a little weird for easily the best Dash in the game.

[hardy garden]

lol i was just doing a shackle start ~30 heat to practice and saw a nat poseidon so i just yoloed and restarted with 50 heat

maybe wouldve been good to switch the guar hammer to twin shot lol but yeah i got super lucky with tart

i like how all my 50 heat attempts have been carried so hard by rng so early

[bronze viper]

Comment chain? 8.5?

[bronze viper]

That's how it starts, then you get better, and you need less luck

Doesn't diminish the value of your 50 clear(s)

[hardy garden]

wonder how hard imma die trying out the melee aspects

[next acorn]

Well you see, the 8.5 is because in your name there is a d which is the 4th letter of the alphabet plus an e which is the fith. 4+5=9. Then you also have an a which is the first but because there are two of them two spaces apart it only counts as half which is 0.5 and 9-0.5=8.5

Simple math really

[bronze viper]

Fair enough.

[hardy garden]

tidal dash on ranged aspects is almost as comfy tbh

then it adds some really nice group dps

[bronze viper]

I don't think Divine Dash is "easily" the best dash in the game. There's a lot of different types of "best" and Divine Dash is only one of them

[next acorn]

You know that’s a copypasta right…

[bronze viper]

oh sorry I'm not used to non-cgulls trolling that hard

:3

[next acorn]

lol

[bronze viper]

My b my b. I feel like I've had to give that talk like a trillion times at this point and it's pretty practiced. People just literally be giving up runs if they don't get Divine Dash.

[gaunt fiber]

Baited

[bronze viper]

I know, I'm a failure

I brought shame to the family name

[gaunt fiber]

Oof

https://tenor.com/view/avatar-the-last-airbender-zuko-thats-rough-buddy-thats-rough-gif-4264932

[hardy garden]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/825862916561305643/900983162891546634/Hades_10_21_2021_10_43_25_PM.png

thunder flare new 32 heat beo strat?

also accidentally took dd's instead of sd moment. patty where

[bronze viper]

Pfft, the Thunder Flare naysayers are full of it. It's easy. Just get everything.

[hardy garden]

even have that lightning rod lmao
imagine if styx somehow gets me a fully loaded

[cursive portal]

Its from a reddit post

That ranked every boon

From 0-10

[honest kernel]

uh oh

[cursive portal]

And people were saying tidal dash was better

Then this masterpiece dropped

[honest kernel]

that opinion seems pretty solid to me actually

but the way its written makes it memeable yea

[glass blade]

Doing zag bow at 40 heat

I have aphro attack and divine dash leaving tart

What keepsake do I want into aspho?

[hoary pasture]

Id take Zeus

[honest kernel]

thats a good one yea

[hoary pasture]

Or Athena

For DDs

[honest kernel]

I also like purse for boon stonks but zeus is prob the best one

[hoary pasture]

Zeus if you’re comfy to go for Call and Smolder

Ye purse is nice too

[cursive portal]

tooth if you dont like to die to lernie

athena also viable with AP1

[radiant oriole]

gonna try 50 heat sword soon. Is nemesis or arthur better for the job?

im thinking nemesis because them crits

[cursive portal]

Nemesis for sure

Arthur doesnt deal with FO2 too well

Nemesis can also take virtually any attack that has a nice % and isnt posideon's

GL on the hammer resets o7

[hoary pasture]

Double Edge Nemesis can also deal with DC2 kinda effortlessly

[cursive portal]

I still prefer DC1

2 is painful, but I cant see them doing 50 without hell without 2

[radiant oriole]

god damn

had the best 50 nemesis heat run with AP2

epic art attack

divine dash

200+ health

im in the end of asphodel and im forced to take a hammer room

c u r s e d s l a s h

[quartz mantle]

Anvil time

[radiant oriole]

nah i gave up right then and there

going from 230 health to 138 isnt very fun

[quartz mantle]

Bro 138 is still pretty good

I think you still get one shot by slugger chariots out of SD but like dont worry about it

[radiant oriole]

for 50 heat 138 is not very good

i would get 1 shot by every lernie attack and many, many elysium attacks

[quartz mantle]

Idk I don't like giving up mid run because of bad hammers just cause that run could have had a nasty Elysium skip and really good lernie heads

And also the potential to clutch anvil it away is too good to pass up

[cursive portal]

Unmodded Moment

[cursive portal]

This is more than a bad hammer,

Cursed slash is a brick

[quartz mantle]

Just stop getting hit idk what to tell you

[radiant oriole]

ikr

[cursive portal]

Or just play modded where you get guaranteed d edge

there are 3 good hammers on sword, 3 that actively hurt you

1 cruel thrust that does nothing

1 dash nova

And the rest are mediciore

[bronze viper]

dash nova actively hurts your feelings at least

[cursive portal]

Absolutely

Never forget flurry cursed dash nova hammer o7

[radiant oriole]

no idea how to mod this game

but

the 0% chance of a cursed slash sounds juicy

[bitter stone]

Yeah dont pots do like 130 damage with the trap pact?

[bronze rapids]

150

[hardy garden]

hs em4

[bronze rapids]

with gliga

[bitter stone]

Too bad you cant get chaos boons for dad

I want to see aim assist accidentally get you 300 damage

[viral estuary]

Good 32 first time heat strategies?

[bronze viper]

Play the aspect you like best.

Are you familiar with how to play with Stubborn Defiance?

[viral estuary]

Kinda

I usually dont use it though

[bronze viper]

At 32 you'll really want to be using Stubborn Defiance with Lasting Consequences 4

[viral estuary]

Thats good to know

[autumn ginkgo]

Play an aspect you like, but know that certain aspects will be a lot harder to run for first time 32

Like playing Hestia is going too likely be way easier than playing lucifer

Or playing Arthur is going to be very difficult depending on how you structure mirror

[autumn ginkgo]

What weapon/aspect are you planning to do?

[viral estuary]

Either beowulf or talos

[hallow garnet]

beowulf seems like a good idea

[autumn ginkgo]

Beo is broken so you'll probably want to run that

[hardy garden]

beowulf stonks . run flood flare, get mirage shot you gud

[next acorn]

Talos

Beo is def better though

I just have a thing for Talos

[viral estuary]

Glad im not the only one

[shy plinth]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/668865849079103539/884878890739335178/unknown.png

This is a heat prog I recommend

HL5 fo0 pacts are more common and probs safer for first time 32 though I personally found this one easier

Watching vods from high level players highly recommended

[bitter stone]

Yeah. Haelian does lots of runs with Beowulf

Lots on youtube

[flat flicker]

Beo if you remap controller so you can load casts mid bull rush is super based

just FYI

[bitter stone]

Yeah

[next acorn]

I need to do this

muscle memory go brrrrrrr :(

[bronze rapids]

Think of Beo casts as bullets of the rail

[hardy garden]

charged shot beo is just beeg hestia

[next acorn]

charged shot Beo is just better Hera

[flat flicker]

I wasted a LOT of megs adjusting, but em4 32 hades is not that scary if beowulf (and only one FO

It also makes snow burst feel way more useful even if not a cast build just to be able to hit the cast button with my left hand haha

[honest kernel]

@hardy garden @bronze rapids @hallow garnet I DID ITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
LESSSS GOOOOOOOOOOOO THEY SAID IT COULDNT BE DONE THEY SAID I NEED TO PROBABLY OPTIMISE MY PACT BUT HERE I AM COMPLETED 32 HEAT WITH COMPLETELY ARBITRARY PACT https://drive.google.com/file/d/17aplHkJZSauEfVjoNze40Ci_1viW5e_U/view?usp=sharing

[hallow garnet]

hm?

Why did you not screenshot the whole page

[bronze rapids]

drop the whole thing in victory boasting

[honest kernel]

coz i scammed you lol

yea ill never be good at this

[hallow garnet]

[honest kernel]

the highest ive gotten is 10 heat without the god mode

;-;

no improvement

at all

i think imma quit

idk what to do

[hardy garden]

okay cool

[hoary pasture]

It takes time and practice

[flat flicker]

that's solid. check out the heat progression that's floating around here somehwere, and set reasonable goals - if you can do 10 you can prob do 11 but 32 will wreck you

[hoary pasture]

Yea big jumps are not the best way to progress imo

[shy plinth]

#h1-high-heat-strategies message

[flat flicker]

thanks bud

@honest kernel start there and see if it helps

if youre doing 10 heat but its EM4 thats super different from like customs, td2 mm bp1 and idk hl1 whatever

[honest kernel]

it just takes some time

if you keep telling yourself that you cant do it you never will

[gaunt fiber]

Akuma

[flat flicker]

or just run eris rail and go for 20

youll probably win lol

[honest kernel]

hey i was reading pinned for 32 heat

is achilles not an easy weapon?

[jaunty falcon]

It’s quite unsafe if you go for an attack build

But cast builds can be powerful

[hardy garden]

though beo is a lot safer for cast

big shield op

and achilles casts are more duo reliant ig

[honest kernel]

achilles is fine if ur used to it

[hardy garden]

any aspect really

[honest kernel]

yea

[hoary pasture]

Gilgamesh

[hardy garden]

gilgadash pog tho

[shy plinth]

Don't hate on gilga

[bronze viper]

Idk if there's getting used to controller auto aim Achilles

[flat flicker]

Flurry jab go brr

[hardy garden]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/825862916561305643/902330218755260426/unknown.png

okay maybe having nothing but an unpommed rare zeus special and a poseidon call aint gud enuff

[honest kernel]

I'm on controller

i like it

[hardy garden]

180 degree lock on into a pot/spinny asterius

[hardy garden]

maybe i just do ri2 ap2 shackle stuff

[quartz mantle]

How did you only ever get 1 pom

[hardy garden]

i got another pom on different league

which i sold

[next acorn]

I can and I absolutely will

[flat flicker]

enjoy being crocodile food

[next acorn]

Don't let Nyaanyaa see

[hardy garden]

oh no

[mossy zinc]

https://imgur.com/W5NAKRF

[undone tartan]

Yeah it’s really bad. But kinda necessary because the attack will just miss so much without auto-aim

Flurry Jab auto-aim is actually pretty good, just the special auto-aim is offensively atrocious

[mossy zinc]

You don't like throwing yourself into EM4 urns?

[next acorn]

I love dodging 30 damage shockwave for 150 damage urns

[cursive portal]

Zeus without jolted not like this

@hardy garden should switch to shadow presence

[hardy garden]

ignore the seastorm

wait does shadow work on special

[cursive portal]

Thats how I beat zeus 50 actually but my boss fights were super long

[cursive portal]

I just know that it does

Not like fiery is doing much anyway

[hardy garden]

yeah

[cursive portal]

Mb switch to hell mode?

JS3 sucks big time for well time

[hardy garden]

yeah i tried some other stuff. and died too

rn taking a break tbh

[cursive portal]

I c

[hardy garden]

50 heat is a bit

[cursive portal]

JS3 sigma grindset

Hell mode is just so big

[bronze viper]

I love when 2 urns spawn within 180 degrees of Dad. May as well be an invulnerability shield.

[cursive portal]

[cursive portal]

Why not both

[cunning grotto]

urns count as traps, right?

[left prism]

Yes

[hard loom]

what is the easiest combination of 16 heat in your guys' opinions

[hardy garden]

well td3 is 6 free heat plus 4 from em2 then bp1 and mm for 4 more and idk stick on lasting consequences 1

[mossy zinc]

You could just do something like EM2 FO2 TD3 and then 1 Heat wherever else you want.

But what's easiest for you really depends on your skill level, and also your skill with whatever aspect you're playing.

[hard loom]

im using aspect of hestia on gun

and just using the charged shots from manual reload

[mossy zinc]

Like, if you can't get sub 21 times, then TD3 could be impossible for you.

[hard loom]

im not sure how to like show you my skill level but i've got a 12:29 run as my speed record

with hestia

[mossy zinc]

Whereas if you can do sub 20 comfortably, TD3 is essentially free Heat at 16 Heat.

Yeah, then just do EM2 FO2 TD3 and 1 Heat somewhere else. That's basically just a standard speedrun pact with TD3.

[hard loom]

great ty ill try that

[mossy zinc]

I guess LC1 maybe.

[hard loom]

got a 13 min clear with this, ty :)

[hard loom]

what about 32 heat

[shy plinth]

Do the same pact then add 16 more heat

[flat flicker]

em4 ri4 ap2 lc4 js3 fo2

nah

if u could do that would be pretty insane

#h1-high-heat-strategies message

that'll get u started

[mossy zinc]

Nyaanyaa's 32 Heat Guide
HL5 LC4 CF2 EM3 BP2 MM UC TD3
Stubborn Defiance
> Owl Pendant > Lucky Tooth/Acorn > Acorn

[flat flicker]

To expand upon that, forcing Athena means you can let yourself die once then get Athena to replenish a defiance but since you’re running stubborn defiance, you’ll get a bonus defiance

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, and you also get Divine Dash pretty easily.

And Heartbreak Strike gives you easy access to high damage + Weak and potentially Life Affirmation, Smoldering Air, more damage reduction...

HL5 FO0 means you can pretty easily run circles around enemies and not get hit, so HL5 doesn't matter too much... and when you do get hit, they're probably Weak, so that negates a lot of that.

[flat flicker]

[mossy zinc]

So the strategy for that guide is to make encounters as easy as possible, get high damage + Weak from the start, then very quickly get Divine Dash when you need it and hopefully 1 or 2 DDs from Lady Athena.

And because Heartbreak Strike doesn't really need a lot of poms, you can prioritize Centaur Hearts.

Weak also makes Hyper Sprint, Second Wind, and Greater Evasion a lot stronger.

[warped plover]

Best way to complete 32heat?

[hoary pasture]

Read the pinned message to make sure you have a reasonable pact that doesn’t make things much harder, in terms of aspects it’s really up to you, at 32 heat there is almost nothing that ruins your build so you can go for whatever you feel like

[warped plover]

Oh never saw pin. Thanks

[hoary pasture]

Eris Rama Beowulf Achilles… All strong aspects with massive dmg

Or you can go for like Chaos shield and play really safe and chip down enemies slowly

gl

[hardy garden]

just get literally all the zeus boons. gg ez https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/901912175713583124/Hades_10_24_2021_12_15_12_PM.png

hestia also gud for 32. safe. gud damage

[hoary pasture]

Yea everything is viable just pick whatever is fun

Even Cold Embrace

[hardy garden]

i may or may not have done cold embrace hera vs em4

[hoary pasture]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/841266682072530956/902300896187252847/835125168341778463.gif

[hardy garden]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/902007324510674985/Hades_10_24_2021_6_33_58_PM.png

no attack boon till end of styx

[hoary pasture]

Sexy build

[hardy garden]

most rooms were pretty much just boonless shackless

with all my dmg from flurry

[hoary pasture]

Lv1 Guan Yu 50 Heat soon?

[hardy garden]

bruh no

[hoary pasture]

What next

[hardy garden]

idk. all aspects 40 heat

[hoary pasture]

Oh

[hardy garden]

i have like idk 6-8 to knock out

imma just stay at 45 and below heat for now

[hoary pasture]

Rip the 50 grind

[hardy garden]

hades spear 45

50 is a tad bit painful

[hoary pasture]

Also you should sub 10 fists because it’s triggering

[hardy garden]

lmao

k ill do that tomorrow

[cursive portal]

Spheredy my beloved

[cursive portal]

50 heat hades can die in a fire

You either get both exploding launcher and charged skewer or you die

Or time out(also die)

Atleast zag spear can cope with flurry jab

[warped plover]

Am I the only person actually using the gun?

As Main weapnn

Reload is actually op

[hoary pasture]

Well idk if I main anything at this point

I have the most clears on Bow so maybe that

[dapper schooner]

is HL5 FO0 really better than HL2 FO1?

[hoary pasture]

HL5 is HL0 if you dont get hit

[dapper schooner]

all heat other than cf, td is free heat if you dont get hit

[hoary pasture]

I wouldn't necessarily play like that, if you have any intentions to push heat then FO is something you should learn as early as possible imo

If you're looking for just a clear at 32 heat or something then yes that's technically true, you can turn off FO and max out Hard Labor for free heat because you're just gonna be running around in circles and stalling often

[cursive portal]

FO 0 rama is laughably easy

You can powershot on anything

[flat flicker]

pew pew

[hardy garden]

fo0 feels really dang slow if youre used to fo2

[hoary pasture]

I haven't turned off FO2 since I had my first 32 clear

I think I'd get hit more often with FO0 on boss fights lol

[mossy zinc]

You probably wouldn't.

[hardy garden]

ngl dad sweeps feel funny when you have to wait ages before you should dash

[mossy zinc]

You can dash too early and then still dash out anyway.

[hoary pasture]

lol

[mossy zinc]

You don't even need to i-frame, you just dash and then run out of range or something lol.

[waxen relic]

If you have two dashes that is

[hoary pasture]

That would look hilarious

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, single dash you gotta be more mindful a bit.

[hoary pasture]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/841266682072530956/902956684765437972/Hades_xIE092qnFg.png

I should probably do this

[honest kernel]

[elfin rock]

i still have that one to do

[hard loom]

IM ACTUALLY SHAKING USING THIS I JUST DID 32 HEAT FIRST TRY, I ALSO DIDNT TAKE DAMAGE ONCE ON HADES FIGHT

MY NERVES RN BRO

ty so much for the strat

[hoary pasture]

Congrats

[quartz mantle]

GGs

[hoary pasture]

Now 40

[mossy zinc]

Congratulations!

[cursive portal]

[hard loom]

gonna attempt that tonight :)

[hoary pasture]

gl

[glass blade]

How is sea storm chiron for 40 heat?

I’ve never tried it before

[honest kernel]

its fine but harder to get going than more standard builds

[hoary pasture]

It's what I did for 40 and 45 I think

It's good enough

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/903215893998346251/903220769906126858/chiron45.png

[glass blade]

What else could I do for chiron?

[honest kernel]

artemis special inmto heartrend, dio special with low tolerance or going straight into zeus special

[mossy zinc]

Don't think it's hard to get going if you just start with Tidal Dash... you're already going at that point.

[honest kernel]

what heat level counts as high?:D

[left prism]

Kinda varies to who are you talking but generally is 32+ (as is the last skelly statue)

[honest kernel]

oh, time to pump the numbers up, i only beat hell recently and im only on 7 lul

[next acorn]

high heat is when it's high enough for you to die

[mossy zinc]

It's subjective, yeah, but the high heat leaderboard starts at 32 fwiw.

I'd say most players that would call themself high heat players regularly do 40+ Heat.

32 is kind of the point that's either the limit for a lot of players or the start for players getting into high heat.

[bronze viper]

32 is just a happy number from the Skelly statue, so it's the most common introduction for most people into high heat play

So most players either call it quits there or get interested to see how far they can go

[quartz mantle]

The cool thing about Hades is the difficulty ceiling of the game is unfeasibly high for most humans, so the only limiting factor is yourself

Some people get the three statues and call the game completed

The rest of us don't quite have that self control

and want the number to get higher and higher

That's me btw I have no self control

[bronze viper]

Lol I feel attacked

[quartz mantle]

It's ok Ledger none of us have self control

[bronze viper]

🙃

[quartz mantle]

the appeal of bigger number always taunts us

[next acorn]

IMAGINE having self control

[mossy zinc]

I think I've played like 5 hours of Hades in the last two months.

[flat flicker]

I’ve gotten two weapons to 40 and one to 36, I’m happy w myself

[flat flicker]

How many hours total though

probably four digits, you know everything about hades

[mossy zinc]

1,178.8 hours.

[next acorn]

Thasa big number

[mossy zinc]

If you're wondering what I've been playing instead of Hades in the last two months: I got 2,700 hours in Street Fighter V.

[next acorn]

Thasa bigger number

[shy plinth]

Did you unlock Than in SFV

[gaunt fiber]

Hey

[dapper schooner]

if only lady aphrodite was in SFV

[lucid atlas]

But…how many hours have you talked about it or “preached” the wonders of Aphrodite or guided those poor souls who need guidance from those who have gone before?

[swift slate]

Still trying to get this 32 skully statue , can I get like a rule of thumb yall high heat players have?

[mossy zinc]

Nyaanyaa's 32 Heat Guide
HL5 LC4 CF2 EM3 BP2 MM UC TD3
Stubborn Defiance
> Owl Pendant > Lucky Tooth/Acorn > Acorn

[hardy garden]

cf ew

[mossy zinc]

It works.

[mystic flint]

I used the hidden rail aspect with athena special for mine

long enough ago that I dont remember the whole build, I took hammers that made the special area bigger, and slowed enemies down in it

I don't remember the pacts but I didn't have the one that limits time or deactivates talents on

[shy plinth]

The nyaanyaa pact is time tested

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/668865849079103539/884878890739335178/unknown.png

This is my recommended heat prog

I use hl1 fo2 cf0 instead of nyaanyaa's HL5 cf2

Her pact is more reliable but I like buying things

[swift slate]

Giving this one a shot! @shy plinth def screenshotted yours as well

Appreciate the help y’all

Idk how I feel about 5 minutes but fawk it gonna go for it

[shy plinth]

You can learn in chunks and do lower heats first to get used to it

Like learning lc4 or td3 or whatever sequentially

[swift slate]

I had to take off the life one yall 😭 I felt so helpless once I took any damage

[bronze rapids]

It's ok because you can revive once every chamber

if you use a fast weapon (ie non-Hestia rail and fists) you can swap CF2 to DC2

[mossy zinc]

If you lose your Stubborn Defiance in the chamber before you take Last Stand or Deathless Stand from Lady Athena, she'll give you a DD, and then when you leave the chamber, you get your SD back like normal.

But you also keep the DD.

That's why my guide recommends the Owl Pendant in Asphodel to get Divine Dash and then hopefully 1 or 2 DDs.

You also wanna check Wells of Charon for Touches of Styx.

[hardy garden]

youre not going straight for 32 heat are you

[fair hill]

has a max heat run ever been completed?
like
literally all of the restrictions?

[mossy zinc]

Yeah. You can find the link on the pinned high heat leaderboard under Seeded.

[hardy garden]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/825862916561305643/903834904679288882/20211029_193602.jpg

bruh moment

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/903834853403922512/Hades_10_29_2021_7_31_00_PM.png

[flat flicker]

Only on seeded (meaning modded, they pick their starting boon etc) but still hella impressive. I think 61 is the unseeded record

which is completely insane to think about lol

[mossy zinc]

Seeded doesn't mean modded.

62 is unseeded WR.

[solar maple]

Mods are used to find the seeds to play the seeded runs on and find the best ways to manipulate rng, but the actual runs are done with no mods

[mossy zinc]

Mods can be used for that because it's not against the rules, but it's not a requirement for seeded.

Actually modded runs are on a separate modded leaderboard.

In the speedrun discord.

[pseudo flame]

i believe seed could also mean you give up a run and has knowledge of first chamber drop

so u dun need mod to do it, but could plan ahead a lot better, like knowing ur AP2 choice etc

[bronze rapids]

yeah that

[hardy garden]

for the speedrun/heat leaderboards think routed is also put into the seeded category

[mossy zinc]

Yes. All routed runs are seeded, not all seeded runs are routed.

[next wyvern]

Dash strike boost works for Bow right?

[hoary pasture]

It works on all weapons

If you dash strike

[next wyvern]

so would artemis dash worth on Rama?

[hoary pasture]

Yes

One of the best in fact

Because your main source of dmg is dash striking anyway, you rarely just stand still and attack, it’s always dash strikes

[devout quiver]

thats most weapons, using lots of dash strikes.
(though yeah, rama makes especially good use

[quartz mantle]

Rama likes dash strikes a lot more because large base damage means you get a lot out of the percent increase from Arty dash

And also you’re never not dash striking

[bronze viper]

Ain't no one got time for charging standing attacks

[next wyvern]

wow

i almost died in Styx with rama

that place is hell

Like Hades died withtin 5 seconds or smth but the damned styx took all 3 lives

[vital grove]

You special the rats

Just in case you weren't for any reason

[hardy garden]

real players powershot them

[hoary pasture]

Real gamers use mistral dash because that’s what ap2 gives you

[flat flicker]

man I don’t use ap2 im not a real gamer

[next wyvern]

I always somehow got poison from who knows whete

And the place to get rid of it is also on acid

[hoary pasture]

It's okay AP1 is worse because it's disappointing

With AP2 you have no expectations to begin with

[hardy garden]

pain

[fair hill]

I want the skelly satues, but I haven't even gotten beyond 10 heat yet
screw it
I'm going all in
32 HEAT HERE I COME

[pseudo flame]

which makes UC great

more useless boons to purge without hesitation

[hardy garden]

maybe do 16 or 20 first

[pseudo flame]

or could ask for 32 heat suggestion, if he wants that

[fair hill]

ay jusy did 16 heat

les go

[honest kernel]

malphon is great lul just did 8-9-10 in a row without dying

[dapper schooner]

its still extremely annoying if you have dc2

and no zoos special

[glass blade]

45 heat build for eris?

[jaunty falcon]

Same as 32 heat one, although you might want divine dash over tidal dash

Just pray you get jolted

[glass blade]

wait

i meant pact

[hoary pasture]

Do you have hell mode

[glass blade]

no

anvil gaming

i had delta and explosive

i lost delta and got rocket + targetting

[hoary pasture]

You can try HL5 LC4 CF2 JS1 EM3 CP1 UC MM BP2 DC2 AP1 TD3

FO2 HS

I think I didnt miss anything

[glass blade]

ez game

45 heat first attempt with eris

i did what u said

but cf1 js3

[hoary pasture]

Nice

[plain parcel]

I sort of did that and went from 16 heat to 32 in about 6 attempts (though I'll admit to getting very lucky on boons)

[next wyvern]

Dont u lose a lot of like titan bloods

If you skip from 10 to straight 32m

[bronze rapids]

no, if your record is 10 and you jump to 32, you're getting the rewards for 11

[flat flicker]

How scary is em4 fo1 relative to em3 fo2

in your all opinions

I like the song lol

And wanna get some more 40s

but fo2 > me

[hoary pasture]

Well it depends on other pact you have aswell in my opinion

EM4 can become a very difficult fight really quickly when you stack a lot of pacts together

[flat flicker]

True. Eh I’ll just stop overthinking it and do it lol

[hardy garden]

em4 40 heat

is uh

bad idea

[flat flicker]

I know, but I’m going to turn off FO2

I’m more afraid of that than I am em4

I know im wrong but I don’t care lol em40 is super based

[hardy garden]

em4 matters a lot when youre using stubborn defiance at high heat but okay . _.

[flat flicker]

I know, I want that fight

I want the last fight to be mega sweat

And I am well aware it’s suboptimal wrt 40 heat clears

[hardy garden]

i shall pray for the patty and two sack

[flat flicker]

thanks bud

https://tenor.com/view/leeroy-jenkins-leeroy-jenkins-king-minion-king-gif-20296169

welp

got destroyed by Meg

https://tenor.com/view/teletubbies-lala-wasted-killed-dies-gif-16750151

forgot this game requires some warming up before going for 40…silly me. What would u run for 40 on beo @hardy garden

[hardy garden]

just the standard flood shot build

at higher heats id go aphro cast with ap2 and stuff but thats not needed at 40

[flat flicker]

yeah I think I’m gonna stop at 40

I think I’m gonna just do em4 32s

with zag bow

I recently (like twenty runs ago or so) discovered how poggers zag bow is

[hoary pasture]

Charged Flight Aphro Special Smoldering Air

[flat flicker]

lmao

I actually kinda want to try that tho now

not for pushing heat but it sounds fun

[hoary pasture]

It’s the real way to play Beo afterall

[mossy zinc]

OG Beowulf build indeed.

[fair hill]

I love rama, personally

Attempting 32 heat soon * for the first time

wish me luck

[lucid atlas]

https://tenor.com/view/friends-goodluck-lisa-kudrow-phoebe-buffay-gif-4038920

[fair hill]

Best aspect for spear?

[hoary pasture]

The one you're comfortable with

[lucid atlas]

Achilles…special x2, dash-strike x2, insert cast as available, repeat

[quartz mantle]

All of the spear aspects work well as long as you're below like 50

Achilles is simply aspect of Flurry Jab, Hades is pretty good with exploding launcher, Zag can do either, and Guan Yu is good damage on it's own and is really good with Charged Skewer

all 4 aspects are hammer reliant tho

Or you can just do Achilles cast build which works at 32 heat

[fair hill]

damn
just died on second phase dad

that sucks lmao

[hoary pasture]

rip

If you made it there then it's just a matter of time before you get it

[fair hill]

didn't help that I lost all my acorn uses immediately to that stupid doomstone

made it go invisible every 2 seconds

[hoary pasture]

EM4? 👀

[fair hill]

yes

and I regret

immensely

[hoary pasture]

If you're just looking for a clear there are better picks

[fair hill]

Idk what to choose

[hoary pasture]

If you're looking to boast then go ahead, EM4 is fun

[fair hill]

the pinned didn't exactly help

[hoary pasture]

What aspect are you doing

And are you comfortable with HS or FO2

[fair hill]

rama

and I can manage FO2

ok

I got something

attempt numero dos

[hardy garden]

fo2 em4 is quite a difficult pact 32 wise

whats the rest look like?

[hoary pasture]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/841266682072530956/904831574305017916/Hades_zAYT4vEhck.png

You could try something like that

You can also go HL0 DC1 BP2

CF also worth mentioning, altho I dont like it too much, it doesnt make your enemies tougher tho so its fine

[fair hill]

how do I type an image?

[hoary pasture]

Link it

[fair hill]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/765002494728077365/904832305183486033/pact1.PNG

this is what I have on now

used to be no FO and EM4

[shy plinth]

Pact is fine, I prefer FO2 CF0 DC0 HL1 but this is totally reasonable for clearing

[fair hill]

Yeah, but I'm running rama, so DC in particular is just free heat.

thanks for the advice

I'ma go try this now

[hoary pasture]

It can slow you down a bit and it's annoying on minibosses but yea its fine for the most part

gl

[hardy garden]

id at least reduce cf to cf1 and put in some hard labor

[fair hill]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/765002494728077365/904833568402968596/goodstart.PNG

Oh yeah

This is gonna be fun

[hoary pasture]

Pray for a good hammer

[hardy garden]

tbh id start aphro attack with rama

[fair hill]

got a good hammer

mmm

this is lookin spicy

[pseudo flame]

lol why didn't it show the heat value XD

[fair hill]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/765002494728077365/904841552214507530/first32clear.PNG

sniff.

It's beautiful.

[eternal hare]

looking good

[fair hill]

RIP no triple shot or heart rend

[shy plinth]

Well done

[hardy garden]

wait thats fated authority

[fair hill]

I know I don't have the other one yet

PFPFFPPF

[shy plinth]

Golden touch too

[hoary pasture]

32nd clear 👀

[eternal hare]

your hammers were plenty good enough and heart rend is mega overrated

and you didn't need either to win 😄

[hardy garden]

twin shot is great smh

[shy plinth]

Wait yeah these clear numbers are kinda insane

[hoary pasture]

He's early

[shy plinth]

Did you prog on god mode or are you just a prodigy

[hoary pasture]

Real gamer

Am I the only one who cant tell Zeus call from Athena call

I know this one is a zeus but in general

[hardy garden]

same ngl

[hoary pasture]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/835377117616668692.gif?size=96

[pseudo flame]

lol do tell, what's the difference O_O

[hoary pasture]

because I can compare it to the cast lmao

[fair hill]

I'm gonna attempt a 40 heat tomorrow

Sounds like fuuuuuunnn~~~

[hoary pasture]

Gonna be spicy

[hardy garden]

lets go do 40 heat first try

[fair hill]

I'll tell you about it tomorrow

[pseudo flame]

just like Zag always says

"should be simple"

[cursive portal]

Do 56

ez

[strong quartz]

sorry if thats off topic

any speed guides around?

[eternal hare]

speedrunning discord link in the pins of #self-promotion

[strong quartz]

thanks a lot , i have just completed the 32 heat by reading your advices here, just want to make a speed run now :X

[fair hill]

what's
a good rama build

[quartz mantle]

Arty Dash, Aphro attack, Twin/Triple shot and any hammer that isn't Repulse

If you want to be fancy you can throw Zeus, Dio, or Ares on special with some tier 2s like Jolted, Bad Influence, or Dire Misfortune

Zeus lets you build into smoldering and overall does more damage, Dio is good at clearing dc off of saviors, and Ares is good in Tart since with a high enough rarity + some poms you can just special unarmored Brimstones/Witches/numbskulls and they just die

[eternal hare]

adding on to the hammers, ideally you'd like twin or triple on the first hammer and perfect or pointblank on the second hammer, but you can pick them up in the other order too

if you've got twin or triple first hammer, explosive isn't an awful second hammer if you've got bad options overall

[fair hill]

is it ever worth it to take chaos blessings?

[quartz mantle]

Yes

Like

all the time yes

Dash Strike or just regular attack chaos boons are great on Rama

[eternal hare]

yeah chaos is great scaling since both attack and dash-strike bonuses are pretty sizable

[quartz mantle]

Health is also great

[hardy garden]

chaos = time save, big stonks boons

[quartz mantle]

Health and Rarity are almost always good as well

across any weapon

[eternal hare]

you can get a solid fast time with just two good hammers and the single aphrodite attack boon so I personally just treat literally everything else as a nice bonus

[hardy garden]

tart and aspho definitely take chaos unless there's a priority gods or eurydice. maybe dont take them in elysium since it's sketchier

[eternal hare]

(chaos is also nonbinary btw so is typically referred to as they/them)

[hardy garden]

yeah I keep forgetting that

[fair hill]

james charles lookin' mofo

[quartz mantle]

Most curses are pretty free with Stubborn Defiance, even things like taking damage while using special or attack, cause they can't *outright kill you

just like don't take more foes most of the time

[hardy garden]

btw the big brain rama build is triple point blank with tidal dash

[fair hill]

funny

[hardy garden]

minus dash distance from chaos is also uh not fun

[fair hill]

I literally just got tidal dash

relaxing in a 12 heat run rn

[quartz mantle]

The big brain rama build is Ares special Athena attack ME

[eternal hare]

pls no

[quartz mantle]

Relentless Volley Dire Misfortune

Impending Doom

[fair hill]

Positive Outlook with Stubborn Defiance is big pog

[quartz mantle]

indeed

[fair hill]

whataya'll recommend for the punchy bois

they're my least favorite weapon by far

[mossy zinc]

#h1-builds-and-combat message

[fair hill]

that's a paragraph and a half

tyvm

[mossy zinc]

6 paragraphs.

[shy plinth]

For punching?

I recommend punching things

[dapper schooner]

why is repulse bad

[hoary pasture]

It pushes your enemies away

Which can be annoying

Other than that it doesn't do anything that makes it worth it

[cursive portal]

Other things being 1000x better too

Its just so irrelevant

[hoary pasture]

Even explosive Shot is better

by a long shot

totally unintended pun

[cursive portal]

"I'II finish the rama guide when I finish charging this triple explosive powershot"

[hoary pasture]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/835377117616668692.gif?size=96

[lucid atlas]

Punching is my favorite…I prefer Talos for the tactical aspect of the magnetic punch, but for higher heat and bias annihilation, Demeter is the way, as Mando would say…

[cursive portal]

zag fists can also be fun with drunken strike

Turn on priv stat and get passion dash-low tolerance

Its really fun

[lucid atlas]

Speaking of Zag fists…add the plume and see where the fates guide you…also a fun/effective path as the dodge % can really get going and make you very hard to hit

[quartz mantle]

It does nothing for you unless you have triple or point blank then it is actively detrimental to your damage

However it is perfect anvil material

[hoary pasture]

True

You won't get more disappointed if you already have Repulse

Until the Anvil takes away your triple shot and gives you sniper and explosive

[honest kernel]

I hate repulse yea

[hoary pasture]

I think I wanna get my streak up at bit but idk how I'd make that fun

It's only at 8 rn

[quartz mantle]

Pact / build randomizer maybe

[hoary pasture]

Might do that

I wanted to just do 40 heat and change aspects and builds but that sounds boring

Pact randomizer + 40 heat would probably screw me over lol

[quartz mantle]

Probably do a pact randomizer at like 20 or 32 heat or something

20 heat might be cursed but it won’t be awful

[hoary pasture]

RI4 EM4 DC2 Hestia

[dapper schooner]

[sterile crow]

any suggestions for 5-8 heat runs

[honest kernel]

you can kindof do whatever you want at that heat

weapons and pacts barley matter just avoid approval process and routine inspection

[sterile crow]

thanks

also i've been trying out extreme measures and so far have tested out the furies's, lernies and asterius only (i died on asterius) so i was wondering what is in it for theseus and hades

[gaunt fiber]

EM3 is definitely worth learning yeah

[hoary pasture]

Theseus gets a Chariot and a lot more area of denial and also he doesn’t shut up

[hallow garnet]

people argue that theseus gets easier

Since he doesn’t have his shield first phase of em3

[hoary pasture]

Yea it’s easier imo, Asterius is harder so it balances it out I guess

[hallow garnet]

he also basically gets an adamant rail

[gaunt fiber]

Theseus is kind of easier but also annoying. The guns can shred acorn and the bombs can bounce off pillars and you get damaged instantly. For a huge amount too

[hallow garnet]

Like 50 damage iirc

[dapper schooner]

asterius superspeed charge that does 35 or something is way more problematic

[gaunt fiber]

I remember getting hit for 72

Been a while though, I don't have the numbers on the top of my head

[hoary pasture]

It’s 32 for no Hard Labor

Or somewhere around there

Maybe 35 is correct

[cursive portal]

Yeah

Hits like a truck

EM3 FO2 HL5 sword is not a nice experience

[dapper schooner]

so its probably 36 no HL then

[pseudo flame]

Tbh, FO2 non EM 3 sux as well with Theseus fast spear and asterius could still bull charge

[honest kernel]

gonna be honest I'm not super familar with post early access heroes but em3 was always way harder for me

its insane how much dmg they do and tank

also theseus just straight up robs your acorn when he runs into you

[pseudo flame]

Melee weapons would have a hard time

Range would probably have an easier time with EM3

[cursive portal]

Or charged shot shield

There are like 4 weapons that struggle with EM3

[honest kernel]

im only playing ranged and its still that dangerous

but melee is much worse yea

[pseudo flame]

Shield prolly is different with bull charge immune dash anyway lol

And can block

Or in Zeus shield case, kinda able to keep dmg without melee

[flat flicker]

okay my 32 heat runs with em4 were bad ideas

[mossy zinc]

Why? Not having fun?

[flat flicker]

I hadn’t played in two weeks and forgot I need to warm up before trying 32+

adding em4 to that was just a bad idea all around

Zag bow not quite the best at em4 either

I can only really comfortably do it w beowulf if stubborn defianceing

[pseudo flame]

Some of us would even do EM4 RI4 lol

[hardy garden]

that would've been fun without good rng

[bronze rapids]

that Chiron unseeded WR with Elysium Attack curse

[bronze viper]

Twin Shot is kind of painful lol, the range is just short enough to lull you into thinking you're safe. Triple shot has Rama's issue where bballs are... Problematic. At least your special clears them and Zag power shot is fast.

[flat flicker]

i had triple shot and chain shot

which absolutely shredded

but was useless v dad lol

[bronze viper]

Eh the chains are good for managing adds skulls and urns (kind of)

[flat flicker]

i'd have prefered twin/explosive

pew pew

i think thats a net 5x damage

[quartz mantle]

Well explosive isn’t multiplicative

I think?

It shouldn’t be

[flat flicker]

+300 for each shot

i dont know

tbh this is the one area of math that i just do not compute

but twin explosive is chonky

[mossy zinc]

Twin Shot is base damage. Explosive Shot is bonus damage.

[flat flicker]

would you mind elaborating on how the math works? in my head that's (assume base 100 power shot) 200 from twin then 300 from explosive - i'm unclear if that means its 500 or 600 or something else

[eternal hare]

explosive is +300% additive, twin shot is straight up double (multiplicative)

so assuming you have no boons your dash-strike power shot does 50 base
explosive powershot is +300% to that so now it's 200
twin shot is double so your powershot is 400

[mossy zinc]

[sum of base damage] * [1 + sum of bonus damage]

[flat flicker]

okay let's try this

let's say zag sword 25 damage basic attack with a 50% attack buff from chaos and a 75% from aphrodite

25*(1+1.25)=67ish

?

[eternal hare]

yep

[mossy zinc]

Except... 25 * 2.25 = 56.25.

[flat flicker]

word

my bad math aside

That makes sense

[bronze viper]

Explosive is still very good for Zag. The crit multiplies the bonus damage

[flat flicker]

ok let's try another one

guan yu charged skewer

aphro 75% and chaos 50% again

45 with 200% boost is 135*2.25=303.75

[jaunty falcon]

Yeah that’s right

[flat flicker]

woo

and if that critted, that would be 900

ish

[obtuse sky]

+300% is also multiplicative

% is the multiplier

[shy plinth]

It's additive I'm pretty sure

Actually wait explosive modifies base damage?

No it does not

It's additive

[shy plinth]

Basically every damage boost in the game is additive, twin shot is multiplicative since it literally doubles your shots

So if you have explosive plus aphrodite attack (+50%) you end up with base attack x (1 + 3 + .5), using base damage of 50 that would be 225

3 being 300% and .5 being 50%

If you have twin, it's (base x (1 + .5)) x 2

So 150 in that case but better scaling going forward

[quartz mantle]

That’s not how multipliers work, it’s increasing your damage by a percent of your base damage, but two instances of +150% increase is not the same as 3x damage

[flat flicker]

thanks gang

the hades high heat math lesson

which i needed ngl

[shy plinth]

The moral of the story is

Never take hoarding slash

[flat flicker]

i did it once

was fun, but don't need to do it again

on like single digit heat

[cursive portal]

The ex nemesis any heat wr has it and not double edge, it has to be good

[flat flicker]

lmao wut

deadass?

[cursive portal]

YEP

Breaching and hoarding

[flat flicker]

based

[cursive portal]

My run was the scuffedest thing ever

6:26 IGT

[flat flicker]

[cursive portal]

Never got impending doom for my ME build

Was 14th at the time now im 21st

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/523774570394681344/871832336046624828/indexzagcry.gif

d edge was just not offered

[quartz mantle]

twenty firth

[cursive portal]

m bad

[fair hill]

me w/o all the aspects maxed out crying over here

[bronze rapids]

You'll get there

[mossy zinc]

I did 52 Heat before I maxed out all of the aspects.

[toxic temple]

Not really high heat but what should I use for 5 to 10 heat

I’m already using DC1

TD1

EM1 and JS1

[shy plinth]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/668865849079103539/884878890739335178/unknown.png

Try this progression

[rotund sparrow]

Yo unrelated question but what’s the best controller to get for PC

[shy plinth]

Most console controllers are pc compatible

I use an 8bitdo sn30 pro+

[rotund sparrow]

deciding between Xbox one controller or PS5

[rotund sparrow]

No idea what that is

I only know playstation and xbox

[warm dagger]

I recently got my hands on that Pro2..... 11/10 will always recommend.

[rotund sparrow]

what is 8bitdo

the controller looks really old

Isn’t bluetooth connection usually bad

[shy plinth]

All the consoles use Bluetooth

Switch pro, Playstation, and Xbox

The sn30 is modeled after the super Nintendo but is modernized

[rotund sparrow]

Do I have to buy a USB adapter

for the controller to work best

[warm dagger]

The Pro2 was released in April this year.

[shy plinth]

Wireless is fine

Bluetooth is not going to hold you back

[rotund sparrow]

my pc doesn’t have in-built Bluetooth connection

I’m using some cheap external USB adapter

[shy plinth]

Should still work fine

[rotund sparrow]

noted

[undone tartan]

I am maybe considering getting back into Hades

Just because I completely ran out of other games to play (until I somehow get my hands on a PS5)

But it’s also kinda hard to get back into so I’m not sure

[bronze rapids]

Favorite Damue out of context quote: RI2 is just a little less HP

[honest kernel]

maybe do easier challenges before you do 50heat again or whatever

[hardy garden]

https://imgur.com/a/k5smxqA

imgur why

[hardy garden]

https://imgur.com/a/k5smxqA

ofc now it work

[mossy zinc]

Just dashed right into that smh.

[hardy garden]

why does it land so quickly

[mossy zinc]

The answer to that is pinned in #h1-builds-and-combat.

Very first pin.

[hardy garden]

[mossy zinc]

Popular strategy in Early Access.

[hardy garden]

aint there usually more than 12 frames between when the fire ball gets shot out and lands

[mossy zinc]

You dashed right into that red circle.

[hardy garden]

true

though it wasnt even there until my first dash

[mossy zinc]

Probably nerves. You dashed right as the circles appeared instead of waiting for them to appear and then aiming your dashes.

[hardy garden]

well more of i just thought itd damage me less quickly

[mossy zinc]

Well, maybe less nerves at that point and more overconfidence because you were close to winning that phase and just wanted to be aggressive and get it over with.

[hardy garden]

like it was ultra close to the extra head so i guess it lands significantly more quickly

[mossy zinc]

m very sure that's hindsight bias because you were not actually thinking that much in the moment. You just decided to kill that one and then instinct and intuition took over.

[hardy garden]

idk usually it looks like it takes quite a while for the fireballs to land like half a second at least

[mossy zinc]

I think you know what to do in that situation when you analyze the situation, but in the moment, it's almost entirely practice and experience that takes over.

[hardy garden]

yeah ill just keep in mind that close fireballs detonate that much quicker

[mossy zinc]

It looks a lot like you were anticipating the attack and dashed too early instead of reacting to it. I think the video is at 30fps? You dashed two frames after the fireball was shot. That's not a reaction.

You never saw where the fireball was going to land before you pressed dash.

Considering input lag, you might have pressed Dash even before the fireball startup appeared on your screen.

[hardy garden]

yeah i did

idk i dont think i expected the fireball indicator and the hitbox to both appear and activate in the span of a single double dash

[mossy zinc]

The short ones hit the ground really fast, yeah.

Not much travel distance.

[hardy garden]

yep

[mossy zinc]

I think the best move at this point is probably throwing a Phalanx Shot towards the center and the two arrow-shooters over there, then cross over to the bottom island and throw another Phalanx Shot in their direction.

https://i.imgur.com/gWwrMj7.png

Discord does like embeds today.

Because the purple area up there is danger zone with a head that's about to attack, you have no idea where the fireballs are going, and it still has almost full health, so you can't just quickly kill it to get rid of it.

https://i.imgur.com/fnimNqC.png

Whereas this green area down here is actually your safe zone. You know exactly what the terrain looks like, and the two heads over there just need like one more Dash-Strike to get rid of them.

[hardy garden]

mhm. i think i was probably mostly just tryna get away from the bottom because the blue heads being there and the firepools meant itd be harder to avoid attacks

think i thought i could just dash behind the head while it was throwing firepools then attack the low hps heads

[mossy zinc]

It's counterintuitive that the best route in that fight is usually towards the attacks that just happened rather than away from them.

Because when you dash away from them, you dash towards incoming attacks.

While wherever an attack just happened, it's gonna be awhile before you're facing another attack.

[hardy garden]

well i thought id be faster than the fire pools okay which was incorrect

[mossy zinc]

Nah, you played that fight really well. It just came down to one wrong move.

[hardy garden]

tbh i was mostly wondering how many seconds id live lol

[mossy zinc]

Just trying to offer the best analysis I can when there's an opportunity for that.

I think the magma spitters are probably the second worst after the arrow shooters.

The arrows remain on the field after the initial attack for a very long time and home in on you... the magma spitters' attack remains on the field for a very long time, too.

Head slammers just slam once and then that's it. Very bad if you get hit, but there's a lot of nothing happening most of the time, so you can move freely within their attack radius after they slammed the ground.

[hardy garden]

yeah, also that they can aim at you from most parts of the arena

[mossy zinc]

Right.

Summoners are pretty free. Once in awhile you let too many boneless spawn and get murdered, but usually you can just get rid of them very quickly, and the egg spitting can't even hit you.

Wave-makers can be tough sometimes, but their attack doesn't home like the arrows and doesn't stay on the field as long as the magma.

[hardy garden]

though unlike arrow shooters you cant destroy their projectiles. but deflect makes both of them matter a lot less

[mossy zinc]

Right. But trying to destroy the arrows often doesn't go well anyway. You only need to miss one to get hit.

And then you get stunned and hit by something else, and before you know it, it's "LAST CHANCE!"

[hoary pasture]

Ultra instinct kicks in at 4hp

[flat flicker]

Ngl, I wanted that bad for you watching that clip @hardy garden

[flat flicker]

Stubborn has made me not even acknowledge last chance any more

[mossy zinc]

You notice it when your HP is so low that one hit after using your SD means you're dead.

[flat flicker]

That’s the problem, I sometimes just forget I already popped it

I should do better. Easy

Lemme just purge this aphro boon real quick, be crocodile food and then maximum effort

[umbral jolt]

oh yeah thats actually pretty common knowledge in this type of game, but yeah not everyone is aware for sure

[flat flicker]

Any tips on landing Meg on the sneak mini boss

I keep whiffing and being sad

[hardy garden]

gimme a minute ill get an example. you want to press summon as soon as you see it reappear after the initial spawn then teleport

https://imgur.com/a/d1qiq5c

@flat flicker

[flat flicker]

Ah word. Got it. Thanks!

Will it always go there first idk offhand

[hardy garden]

usually it'll teleport further away from you and throw arrows but its the same strat, just meg the moment you see it

if you think youre being too slow, just wait for it to teleport again

before using meg

[flat flicker]

Word. I’ll give it a shot next run

[pseudo flame]

HL5, LC4, CF2, JS3, EM4, BP, MM, UC, FO2, HS, TD3

[hoary pasture]

Remove CP2 and you’re good

[hardy garden]

em4 is just a tad bit cursed at this heat

[hoary pasture]

Oh

It’s cf2

My bad

[pseudo flame]

CP RI DC AP are the "cursed" one yeah? O_O

assuming the pact is meant for all weapons