Yikes
#h1-high-heat-strategies
eternal hare
Yea it's a funny little bug
undone tartan
Can it be fixed by getting a new cast?
eternal hare
Kinda slim pickings for replacing your cast at all lol
mossy zinc
I sent a F10 the other day asking them to at least change the text to match the effect for things like Bad News and Trippy Flare if they don't want to fix the bugs for balance reasons or whatever.
undone tartan
Kinda slim pickings for replacing your cast at all lol
Oh yeah it’s not making up for much, I was just curious if it worked
undone tartan
I sent a F10 the other day asking them to at least change the text to match the ...
Yeah that would be cool
eternal hare
Possibly? It's an increasingly complex situation to get into so I don't know what would happen
If you replace it with flood or trippy you're fine but the other casts are either the same size or barely bigger
So you're not really getting the area back
mossy zinc
Maybe you can shrink it further if you purge a second Attack. 
mossy zinc
Maybe it will turn your Attack into Cluster Rockets.
undone tartan
Do you think icy flare is worse than thunder flare? I feel like if probably is because the Pom scaling for icy flare is upsettingly bad
I still think slicing flare is probably still worse though
quartz mantle
Eurydice can fix the smol flare right?
undone tartan
Oh?
quartz mantle
Slicing is for sure the worst
mossy zinc
Maybe purging your Dash when you have Dash Nova turns it into Nova.
quartz mantle
No scaling opportunities
eternal hare
Looking good
quartz mantle
Gamer
eternal hare
Gl
quartz mantle
Wait that’s EM3 too
You’re straight gaming gl
But yea Slicing has no scaling opportunities outside of RD or other global damage modifiers
All the blade rift stuff doesn’t even help that much and you can’t get hunting blades
Not that it would even do much
undone tartan
Well it’s not like icy does. Killing freeze I guess but that’s it
quartz mantle
Icy flare at least gets killing freeze and snow burst
undone tartan
Vicious Cycle also does nothing with slicing flare
gaunt fiber
quartz mantle
And it’s an actual explosion and not a rift you have to aim
undone tartan
Yeah I’m with you
quartz mantle
Icy flare is a mirage shot for your snow burst
undone tartan
But god icy flare is pitiful
undone tartan
Icy flare is a mirage shot for your snow burst
Wait what
quartz mantle
But if mirage worked properly
Well snow burst does less damage but the icy flare is small and tiny
undone tartan
I’m still just reeling from when I learned icy flare’s pom scaling
Like why
I mean I can guess why
Because they just took the scaling of crystal beam
But it’s so unjustifiably abysmal
gaunt fiber
Yeah it's unfair
mossy zinc
Congratulations! 
honest kernel
congrats
hoary pasture
Ty
quartz mantle
Gaming!
narrow carbon
Eurydice can fix the smol flare right?
I think increasing the rarity of your cast attack with Eury is the second way to trigger the bug, iirc
Also, rare crop triggers the bug (unconfirmed)
Triggering the bug in all 3 ways unlocks unique Hades dialogue tho
bronze viper
Triggering the bug in all 3 ways unlocks unique Hades dialogue tho
what in tarnation
solar maple
there are ways to fix it but I haven't looked into those as much
eternal hare
Eurydice ambrosia can also fix it if it's already small
solar maple
eurydice buffing the attack breaks it, hitting cast fixes it iirc
bronze viper
twice as big cast radius :3
narrow carbon
eurydice buffing the attack breaks it, hitting cast fixes it iirc
Hmm, Beo guide has “If you upgrade the rarity of your Passion Flare or sell your Attack boon, then the AoE of your Passion Flare will decrease in size to the AoE of the base Zagreus cast.”
But the guide doesn’t go into how to fix it, so maybe each bug trigger toggles its size…
flat flicker
What the…
hardy garden
wut
shy gulch
undone tartan
Wait it also happens if I upgrade the rarity? Does that include crop?
solar maple
Hmm, Beo guide has “If you upgrade the rarity of your Passion Flare or sell your...
I think the guide is incorrect. But if it gets people to never gamble on beo I'm ok with it 
I did not test crop but probably idk
narrow carbon
According to the guide, crop is to be avoided, but I also haven’t tested
Oh, @solar maple, found your clip where Eury fixes it: #787779476888354816 message
solar maple
again this is in speedcord if you can't get the link ^^
but it's just a quick clip of smol cast -> eury ambrosia hits cast -> cast is big
narrow carbon
Reading those messages there seems to be a kenorah clip for attack upgrade causing the bug, and it also affects at least icy flare (smaller) and thunder flare (longer animation), and probably more but I stopped reading
bronze viper
I don't understand. It's like Drunken Strike isn't good on Rama or something
narrow carbon
Oh and apparently it can affect trippy and flood but they fix themselves in the next chamber, so I guess it’d only matter if you purge attack and then open a trove in the same chamber?
hoary pasture
I don't understand. It's like Drunken Strike isn't good on Rama or something
Why did you choose Drunken Strike btw
bronze viper
Because you can apply 3 stacks with Triple Shot
Perfect combo
I have to put the memes on hold and probably order an xbox controller online or something. Bluetooth Switch Pro Controller to PC is so annoyingly unstable
I can't even get through a biome without random nonsense happening
Either a disconnect or random inputs being held or not being able to attack for no reason
hoary pasture
Because you can apply 3 stacks with Triple Shot
Damn how did I not think of that
hardy garden
big brain
placid bronze
Either a disconnect or random inputs being held or not being able to attack for ...
I had a bizarre bug playing on keyboard where a spawning urn shoved me in front of EM4 Hades death ray
hoary pasture
Well I hope the memeing resumes at some point
mossy zinc
I had a bizarre bug playing on keyboard where a spawning urn shoved me in front ...
That's not a bug.
bronze viper
Well I hope the memeing resumes at some point
I have a crappy old wired xbox controller I continued on. I think I'm probably just not quite powerful enough to complete this particular meme yet lol.
solar maple
Reading those messages there seems to be a kenorah clip for attack upgrade causi...
the thunder flare interaction is very odd
hardy garden
tart acorn with 32 heat lvl 1 hc guan yu is big brain right
gaunt fiber
It's a lot of value
hardy garden
and died in aspho
flat flicker
Got me an asphodel mirage shot with a level 7 aphro cast 
natural Artemis and Poseidon both
with sudden rush
hardy garden
i feel like dem, athena, dio, poseidon is a weird combo
what good duos even do i have
bronze rapids
exclusive access
hardy garden
lol i got that too
but stubborn root on guan yu with hl5
hoping purging pool will lemme sell it
also bruh
i shouldve went with dds
i like used sd three or four times maybe and half of those were to try to get an athena dd lol
unborn fjord
high heat is fun, the pacts get a bit unfair sometimes but it creates a whole new layer of the game for me, it's so well designed
undone tartan
- Get Chaos DD
- Lose Chaos DD to Lernie
placid bronze
That's not a bug. <:dusa:522248771409543188>
Really? The stinker kept shoving me after it fully spawned and it totally ignored my movement controls
Very odd feature
shy plinth
Don't the urns stun and push?
mossy zinc
Yup.
hardy garden
lvl 1 hc guan yu was a success lmao
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/895785162502184981/unknown.png ill stick the fight in the victory channel
bronze rapids
serrated point gaming
hardy garden
lol ngl i was kinda salty that anvil gave me serrated instead of charged skewer
but divine protection plus chill carried dad fight
undone tartan
Run is going great then boom 3 2+ minute Elysium rooms in a row
Jury Summons Elysium is not fair and it’s not fun
hardy garden
you did turn js on
undone tartan
It’s 50 heat
Its just really really really stupid. Elysium with JS is actually literally terribly designed and it’s miserable and it’s bs
elfin rock
ok how about u stop playing then
undone tartan
Sack RNG and JS3 Elysium are so insanely stupid in this game that they singlehandedly bring the game down in my mind
elfin rock
ur clearly not enjoying urself
undone tartan
I have fun until Elysium
cursive portal
That's the hades curse
hardy garden
tbh i dont think supergiant intended 50 heat for anyone other than masochists
undone tartan
And then there are 4 waves of 17 unarmored brightswords in chamber 31 and I lose 3 full minutes
cursive portal
Game's miserable at a high level unmodded
hardy garden
like lvl 1 high confidence + hs guan yu was funner for me than i think itll be attempting 50 heat
undone tartan
Does modded lower the number of spawns in JS Elysium rooms?
cursive portal
No?
hoary pasture
No
undone tartan
Then how does that change anything
cursive portal
always the best hammer, 2 sack, you see fountains, no bull, no barge
hardy garden
the game just isnt designed around 50 heat
narrow carbon
Game hard != bad design
cursive portal
the game just isnt designed around 50 heat <:bouldy:523329116934635534>
This tbh
undone tartan
The average Elysium room take 4-10x longer than the average Tartarus room
hoary pasture
The issue is the stupid number of enemies. It’s just bad design
Retry
bronze rapids
24/32 randomized is where it's at /hj
cursive portal
The average Elysium room take 4-10x longer than the average Tartarus room
What are you on about
undone tartan
It’s not hard to check if an entire area is miserable with a certain pact on
shy plinth
Perhaps they did test it and wanted it this way
undone tartan
Then it’s bad design
undone tartan
It’s bad design in my opinion
shy plinth
Good thing they made it optional then
undone tartan
To have room with that sheer absurd number of enemies
Tartarus and Asphodel are fine with JS. It makes the rooms harder, as it should
But Elysium becomes literally miserable
shy plinth
JS3 by itself in elysium is manageable, at 50 heat the game is hard and there are a lot of enemies
undone tartan
No literally 3 heat Elysium with JS3 is miserable
Some rooms literally take over 3 minutes to beat
shy plinth
Okay
cursive portal
🧂
sand temple
how long would the rooms take without the JS
cursive portal
Depends on the enemy type
undone tartan
60 seconds max
cursive portal
Cant be measured really
sand temple
it would still take over a minute if you are spending 3 minutes with JS
undone tartan
60% more enemies adds a lot more than 60% more time
shy plinth
Theoretically it is time * 1.6
cursive portal
3 minutes doesnt sound right
undone tartan
At least with some aspects
cursive portal
How does one room take more than half of 5 minutes
Even with shield fellas
Longest I ever had was probably 1:10-1:30
Average is a ton lower
Your claims dont make sense
undone tartan
Average is definitely not that high, but it’s super RNG heavy
With Hestia, I’ve gotten rooms that take over three minutes
shy plinth
I mean I don't have the math in front of me but I would say that an opt-in difficulty setting that explicitly states what it's going to do and scales exactly the same in every chamber is probably not where I'd levy criticisms
narrow carbon
The game used to have, like, Heat going into the hundreds, such that heat difficulty progression was incredibly smooth - but personally I prefer the 64 scale
sand temple
hestia has never taken 3 minutes for me
shy plinth
I am certain there are savior rooms that take forever with a single target weapon
undone tartan
Cool
shy plinth
One of the pitfalls of high heat
sand temple
and if it does take that long then it is likely due to hestia carrying the early game without actually picking up any scaling
cursive portal
With Hestia, I’ve gotten rooms that take over three minutes
Well you don't have clips do you
undone tartan
I am certain there are savior rooms that take forever with a single target weapo...
Not figuratively forever btw. Literally forever. There are literally unbeatable rooms.
shy plinth
If the game decides that it's gonna turn on DC2 for you on Hestia then that is a limitation of Hestia and it is probably really tough to overcome
sand temple
something like arthur would really suffer
sand temple
but hestia atleast has options to remove it
shy plinth
50 is a masochistic challenge and the idea of it being completed regularly is likely not something the devs ever envisioned
undone tartan
Well you don't have clips do you
I sent one yesterday, but I’m on switch so they’re only 30 seconds. I can find the clip I send yesterday
shy plinth
Pretty cool that players have adapted but it needs a lot of emotional balance considering how narrow the paths to victory are and how significant the repetition is
sand temple
and unlike in other regions, the spammable enemy type kills itself without you needing to remove blue hearts
undone tartan
Well you don't have clips do you
#h1-high-heat-strategies message
This was the first wave of a 3-wave room. I’d already spent about 45 seconds in the room btw
It’s switch so all of my clips are only 30s, sorry
shy plinth
I mean that looks like 50 is really really difficult
I'm sure as hell not pushing that far, it's so demoralizing and I don't feel the upside
narrow carbon
When I get waves of savior shields in Elysium with a build/skill that can’t handle it, I just laugh, Well played, game
undone tartan
Well I don’t
Losing perfectly good runs to RNG isn’t particularly fun or funny for me
shy plinth
It sounds like 50 heat is not worth pushing
narrow carbon
You play 6+ hours a day sometimes - runs are cheap, no?
shy plinth
The game is not designed to be fair at this level
undone tartan
I honestly planned for today to be my last day playing Hades, since Metroid Dread comes out tonight at midnight. And I really wanted to get Hestia 50 before then
But yeah
I guess I’m done
Great way to go out 
Timing out at Champions because I lost 6 minutes in 3 total Elysium rooms
shy plinth
It's 50 heat :/
I understand you don't like losing but it's kinda difficult to have this room turn so negative at difficulty you chose to do
undone tartan
Hold on a have a clip to send, gimme a sec
You can’t watch that and think “yeah that’s a reasonable number of enemies”
shy plinth
It's JS3 savior
undone tartan
Especially knowing that it’s the first wave of three, meaning it’s less than a third of the total enemies that will spawn
shy plinth
You asked the game for the maximum amount of additional enemies and then are upset that it's too much
undone tartan
Just watch the clip
undone tartan
That was actually a run where I won. But my point is that that’s just too many
Like come on
shy plinth
You're turning this channel into a salt mine and using a clip of a win as evidence to do so...?
undone tartan
No
Actually no I did lose that run nvm
But it was due to something else
Don’t remember what
eternal hare
You werent really handling the flame wheels optimally in that clip
undone tartan
But no, my point is that rooms just shouldn’t be able to spawn that many enemies, that’s pretty crap.
undone tartan
You werent really handling the flame wheels optimally in that clip
No? It’s Rama, what was I supposed to do? They were spawning one at a time too
solar maple
Especially knowing that it’s the first wave of three, meaning it’s less than a t...
It usually can’t. But you told the game to spawn 60% more
eternal hare
Stay by a single gap to dash across instead of making them spawn all over
undone tartan
Stay by a single gap to dash across instead of making them spawn all over
It’s a huge room
solar maple
But I’m 3 wave rooms the middle wave is actually smaller
hoary pasture
I mean I honestly don’t know what else you’re expecting lol
undone tartan
and regardless they were spawning one by one
eternal hare
So? The same principles of anyheat spawn manipulation apply
undone tartan
It’s just stupid. You can’t agree with that?
shy plinth
I think a bunch of people disagree with you yes
undone tartan
Fine. Whatever
eternal hare
I don't disagree that unarmored flame wheels are annoying and Js3 adds on to that but it's not like that's a run ender
bronze viper
Re: flamewheels yeah you really mismanaged those, and made it so much harder than it had to be. Pick a wide gap like the lake, and just dash back and forth across it as the flamewheels converge
undone tartan
It wasn’t hard it was just obnoxious
eternal hare
Don't blame the game for things you have control over that you misplayed
undone tartan
Alright give me a sec I’m gonna count how many spawned. Because literally no matter how you manage it, that’s too many enemies for one wave.
bronze viper
It doesn't really matter how much they spawn tbh. Those rooms are actually kind of ideal especially since no other enemy type spawned yet.
undone tartan
33 flame wheels
bronze viper
They get complicated and gross usually at the end when a BP2 something comes in but hopefully you've culled the herd by then.
undone tartan
At least
It’s not that it’s hard
It was not, it was very easy
It’s just stupid
33 flame wheels spawning one by one is stupid no matter how you deal with them
Especially if that’s just the first wave of three
narrow carbon
Why am I watching a video of a regular Elysium room?
undone tartan
?
hoary pasture
Lol
undone tartan
Your point? Exactly, it’s regular. It happens all the time. It’s really stupid.
narrow carbon
You’re going to the casino and complaining about rng
bronze viper
30 feral hogs flamewheels
undone tartan
Alright my rant is over
astral peak
having a lot of enemies is pretty cool with demeter fists, one swing and you charge your super upper
undone tartan
Oh, just for everyone who didn’t see it in the speedrun server, you can use your dash to i-frames tight deadline damage if you’re at exactly 1hp. Could have some application
hardy garden
lmao. just dodge td. ez
undone tartan
It’s actually not that hard, believe it or not
I mean maybe it’s hard to do intentionally
But I’ve done it quite a few times unintentionally, often twice in a row
flat flicker
i just did a guan yu at 20 heat that would have been good from like 26
(literally on TD alone)
gaunt fiber
Smoldering would be best for your safety
I'd go splitting because it's fun
Oh it's lightning strike
Just go splitting ez
crystal heron
Woah that's nice
hardy garden
sry for skipping aphro 
mossy zinc
Apologize to her, then. https://discord.gg/aNwD6udwBg
hardy garden
i got sweet nectar k
mossy zinc
So she's giving you that, in good faith, and you still haven't apologized to her.
hardy garden
my left bumper decided to die on me.....
consequences of disrespecting lady aphrodite
mossy zinc
Maybe you should apologize to her. 
She wanted to prevent that from happening, and you didn't trust your heart, and see what happened...
hardy garden
bruh......
i was so close to getting murdered
lady aphrodite is scary
i face tanked 4 ticks of dads lasers with my acorn....
because i cant dash with A anymore
mossy zinc
Always trust your heart.
hardy garden
that was so cursed and blessed
clockets, splitting bolt, smouldering, epic hermes dodge, rare hypersprint
but 5 sack and controller breaking
next acorn
Controller breaking is a mood
gaunt fiber
We're being invaded by 
bronze viper
Heart attack
hearty onyx
That's just Aphrodite's Call
gaunt fiber
Appa that emote is insane
flat flicker
ya know whats funny ive been on a slump
but when i did beowulf aphro flare
id have had 32 on EM4 except the stupid glitch screwed me
then i did aphro charged skewer guan yu and won easily at 20 (previous career best with GY = 3)
hearty onyx
Charged Skewer is e-z
flat flicker
yeah i was surprised at how easy it was tbh
i put on td1 and its like
that could have been td3
and id have made it comfortably lol
also forced athena elysium for the dash, which combined with epic backstab was $$$$$
gaunt fiber
It's quite strong
Charged skewer really unlocks Guan Yu's potential
For the better and the worse
bronze viper
That's a really polite way of saying GY without Charged Skewer is basically Gilgamesh
gaunt fiber
That's a really polite way of saying GY without Charged Skewer is basically Gilg...
I mean yeah
Guan Yu is almost well designed
mossy zinc
That's a really polite way of saying GY without Charged Skewer is basically Gilg...
But you can choose to not reduce your eHP on Gilgamesh. Guan Yu doesn't have that choice.
bronze viper
Lol idk about you but my eHP feels pretty reduced if I want to use Gilgamesh's non-dash buttons
gaunt fiber
Gilga has free serrated
but without its upsides
And also a way to reduce your ehp by 50%
mossy zinc
I think Gilgamesh is a lot better than people give it credit for.
Definitely low tier, though.
shy plinth
;_;
bronze viper
Lol I think it's a pretty easy argument to make it's the least good Fist aspect, and Fist is already probably the hardest high heat weapon
gaunt fiber
I think sword is harder
lucid atlas
Any issues with Gilga that I have is self-inflicted cause I am not patient or polished in my offensive approach yet. The risk reward and varied fighting style is cool...but of the 4 aspects, I die the most from ole'Gilga
bronze viper
I think so too, but people have found to like sword at high heat
I guess we just have to wait for Malphon savants to show us up
lucid atlas
Lol I think it's a pretty easy argument to make it's the least good Fist aspect,...
I am discovering this as I raise the heat...had to take a break cause I was dying a lot in the upper-20's to 32 area...
gaunt fiber
well
I guess there's nemesis and double edge
Malphon does not really have a hammer that would do the same
Maybe Demeter can be pushed higher though
shy plinth
If only the one that gives you consecutive hit boosting worked on dash strikes
mossy zinc
I guess we just have to wait for Malphon savants to show us up
Rumors are the Queen of Malphon is busy punching people in Street Fighter V instead.
pseudo kernel
gaunt fiber
Yo ppman
flat flicker
Gilga has free serrated
is serrated good
i find it throws me off on spear so much that i just dont bother
but is it worth learning or is it a meme
next acorn
Flurry at home
gaunt fiber
It's damage, it can help on like Hades
I don't like on Guan Yu
the margin of error is too low for important fights
flat flicker
word. i somehow did a 32 guan yu
ran out of time but athena dash and call made my 120 hp ass stay alive
20:30 td3 lol
ngl, feels good
@mossy zinc thanks for your very helpful guide (and i used aphro special)
mossy zinc
Congratulations!
terse pelican
So for context, I only started in on >20 heat runs last week, but I'm having a lot of trouble with >20 heat on the Rail in particular. It feels like I'm entirely reliant on one of the Special-upgrade Hammers, and without them my damage just does not keep up. Suggestions?
ripe ermine
Which rail?
shy plinth
What is your mirror and pact setup
ripe ermine
That too
ripe ermine
Switch to Dark Foresight. We’re probably done here.
shy plinth
Switch to ff tho
honest kernel
Rail probably wants Family Favorites, yeah
shy plinth
JS3 td1 is counterproductive
You're adding multiple waves and then the rooms take way longer
Js1 TD2 is much better and tbh we can get the heat for js elsewhere
Where's my heat prog chart
hardy garden
just do td3 and get rid of js and cf
ripe ermine
Oh whoops mixed up the PS icon 🤦♂️
weak gyro
Can Boons increase the power of Maim?
honest kernel
Boons and effects that increase global damage should affect the Maim damage
left prism
what crossed out?
hardy garden
epic jolted and divine flourish
bronze rapids
I swear every time I run FO2 dad summons chariots
unborn fjord
AP crossed out Zeus special twice on 50 heat
aaaaaaaaaa
does switching your pact around coax RNG somewhat into doing something different? like if I went from 50 to 45 heat, would it change AP's cross outs
bronze viper
Only if you believe it does 🙂
unborn fjord
😩
gaunt fiber
okay i regret ap1 <:bouldy:523329116934635534>
Why u do dis
gaunt fiber
hmm... 40 heat lvl 1 hc guan yu might be a bad idea
Dis rather
hoary pasture
he a real gamer
trim sigil
good gamer is a dead gamer, seems like
exotic kettle
I'm getting up to like, 12 or so heat now.... O.O how do I keep the game as easy as possible?
ripe ermine
Avoid Routine Inspection and Heightened Security and Approval Process. Stick to proven overpowered builds. There’s one recommended heat progression https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/668865849079103539/884878890739335178/unknown.png and Haelian had a similar video guide working up to 32 https://youtu.be/CGl1vVnFPsw
exotic kettle
Okie noice
cursive portal
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/674975378397200416/896426514403430460/1329.png damm phase 3's got hands
hoary pasture
big rip
upper stirrup
Suggestions for chaos shield 32+? I am not sure what is going wrong but I keep failing at hades dmg seems low I’m using typically ares special and then dio or Demeter attack …is there a better build?
ripe ermine
Dio special is solid with Ares or Aphro attack for their duos. Zeus special with Static Discharge is also good. Or you could high roll with Poseidon special and Sea Storm. Explosive Return is the best hammer probably. Charged Shot can boost your damage overall at the cost of some safety.
eternal hare
A good attack boon and charged shot alone honestly good enough
upper stirrup
@ripe ermine thx I’ll try
unborn fjord
hammer just gave me twin shot, triple shot, and repulse shot on Rama, I'm running 40 heat which should I pick?
gaunt fiber
Twin is very good and easy to play. Triple is a lot of potential but much harder
Since you're asking I'd say twin
Repulse shot is sadness incarnate
unborn fjord
okay, thanks
quartz mantle
Repulse is only useful for ruining Point Blank
unborn fjord
I hate wringers so much
unborn fjord
be me
choose AP1
45 heat Zeus Aspect
AP crosses out epic Zeus special
AP crosses out explosive return
AP crosses out epic Jolted
Roll
AP crosses out Sea Storm
next room is speeder cloner witches
die
hardy garden
F
bronze rapids
should've picked AP2
mossy zinc
Good.
terse pelican
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/668865849079103539/884878890739335178/u...
@honest kernel thank you both, I'll give these a shot
twin meteor
how hard is high heat
cursive portal
Depends on the heat lol
hoary pasture
Well the rng really starts to kick in at much higher heat, like 50+
If 32 heat is a lot of rng then idk anymore, (depends on what heat you choose but cmon no one takes ap2 at this point )
honest kernel
Depends on the perspective. From the Steam achievements stats, about 6.8% of Hades Steam players have done 16 heat or above, while 13.3% of them have done 8 heat or above. I'd say that 16+ heat is a reasonable challenge for most players. Then, you have to consider the quasi-exponential difficulty increase of heat, where the more modifiers you turn on, the more difficult those same modifiers become.
With 32+ heat not even being shown as a statistic on the Steam Achivements list ... It should be a good indicator that it gets hardcore from that point
From my point of view, the game is still clearable in the 40 heat range from knowledge/mastery of the game alone. From that point onwards, is where the randomness of the game starts to kick in, especially for the lesser weapons/aspects.
It's a point where turning on modifiers that add randomness and/or insanely difficult challenges becomes more and more of a necessity
Suddenly, the timer becomes a real threat to even the veterans, a couple of slip-ups in a regular encounter can cost the entire run, and/or your ability to make a powerful build is drastically reduced
These problems could also apply to most players, at the 8-32 heat range. (Was 20-32, but you can make some REAL difficult runs with the wrong modifiers turned on)
mossy zinc
I think actually unwinnable scenarios (assuming best decisions given no prior knowledge of the seed) only really happen at like 50+; or if you deliberately sabotage your pact before that, it can happen.
honest kernel
I'd argue 45+ on slower weapons, due to the timer being very strict, given the volatile nature of room length/sack RNG
But otherwise, agreed
mossy zinc
You can do TD2 at that range if that's really a concern.
honest kernel
You'd have to optimize the pact to compensate.
mossy zinc
Yeah.
honest kernel
4+ sacks are very deadly, which is my main concern
Since you can't just take the 2 miniboss rooms and call it a day, you have to do at 'least one regular styx encounter
And those are not only dangerous, but also long
28 minutes is still probably enough ?
Would need too much data for what's basically me arguing semantics
50+ is where the real deal is, yeah
mossy zinc
Yeah, you might have to find a good pact and a good strategy for that pact, but I don't think any top player of any aspect will be put into an unwinnable scenario below 50 Heat once they find a consistent pact and a reliable build for it.
Like, maybe at 49. It's not like it's conveniently exactly at a round number, but that's definitely the area where the game can just decide that nope, you're not winning this one.
honest kernel
Bablo has shown that it was possible on 40 heat. 45 heat streaks is also likely, but could be where you would actively have a chance of failure on a player's weaker aspects/weapons
Altho small
Anything in-between is basically too fuzzy to be relevant
mossy zinc
Didn't Retrash or Wobbles do a 45 Heat streak for a bit?
honest kernel
Retrash, maybe. Wouldn't recall if he did it with varying weapons, or where he decided to end it
cursive portal
45 chiron
cursive portal
Even the weaker spears are really hard at that level without good hammers
honest kernel
I know Tailesque also did 50 heat streaks on Rama
Altho it's one of the better high heat aspects
mossy zinc
Spear without good hammers is kind of just Tidal Dash-Strikes.
honest kernel
Maybe with a side of drunken strike
honest kernel
Spear does ok in rooms with it's range. It can stay relatively safe.
The moment a boss shows up, however ...
It's time for trouble
Hell, if your damage is low enough, armored enemies in Elysium and Styx can be difficult
mossy zinc
It's kind of greedy for boons and poms. You want Tidal Dash ideally for DPS and with poms on it, then a half-decent Attack with maybe a t2 that wants poms, and also a decent Cast with poms on it for Cast > Dash-Strike x2 rotations.
honest kernel
It needs all the power it can get, yeah.
And after all that, you are still left with attacks that are often very commital
Explosive Launcher (Also combined with Charged Skewer) can help a bit
But it won't carry you by itself
mossy zinc
I think the spear's Dash-Strike is really, really good, though. Like, the hitbox on that thing is huge.
cursive portal
Hell, if your damage is low enough, armored enemies in Elysium and Styx can be d...
130!
honest kernel
I think the spear's Dash-Strike is really, really good, though. Like, the hitbox...
Oh yeah the range is massive. Part of the reason why it's so good in rooms
cursive portal
I have zag spear
Its so bad
Even with exploding
You have no damage
You rely so much on 2nd hammer its insane
mossy zinc
Or plenty of Chaos Boons for Special damage.
Exploding Launcher is Hestia with Explosive Fire and -66% base damage. It's not too bad.
honest kernel
And then you get Charged Skewer to get back to the same damage as Hestia
Spear really relies on it's aspects for damage, uh
And hammers, too
mossy zinc
And then you get Charged Skewer to get back to the same damage as Hestia
But Hestia already picked up Hazard Bomb along the way.
mossy zinc
Piercing Fire.
If I didn't know any better, I'd be starting to think Hestia might just be a better weapon.
honest kernel
cursive portal
cursive portal
And then you get Charged Skewer to get back to the same damage as Hestia
That feeling when fully charged exploding crit
OOOOO
1500 damage
When it doesnt crit
honest kernel
Pretty sure Clockets gets there with a good enough special boon alone
400 base damage is kinda nuts
It's really sad
mossy zinc
Crit builds on non-crit aspects are also really sad. 
honest kernel
Absolutely agreed
15% chance on attack, 20% chance on special, 10% on cast ... those are very sad
Aid has a decent chance at 35% I think ?
mossy zinc
Yeah, but the base damage sucks lol.
honest kernel
But that's definitely not consistent on it's own
mossy zinc
I've noticed the community has finally come around on that somewhat recently.
honest kernel
Yeah. Was in the crit camp too for non-crit aspects
Then I realized that forcing a pretty meh boon as a secondary attack is not quite worthwhile in most cases
Especially not in high heat where getting Hunter's Mark, Chaos Boons, Hermes' Rush Delivery (Or Bad News because of the glitch) is that much less common
Or even just global damage boosts from the mirror
Only being damage and not even being the best at it is not a great sign. Rather have a good status effect for utility (Aphrodite/Athena/Demeter)
That also comes with equivalent or better damage
And support boons that can very much make a difference in your run (Aphrodite's for survivability, Athena's for Death Defiances/Deflect, Demeter's for boss slows + excellent support boons in the form of Ravenous Will, Snow Burst, Killing Freeze, and even early Rare Crop. Could even argue Nourished Soul for non-LC4 pacts)
gaunt fiber
Crit is good when you have a mirror and still a choice on your boons yeah
honest kernel
Some non-crit aspects can also make Crit work due to their damage boost being big enough to matter. Hades Spear, Achilles Spear, Eris comes to mind
Otherwise it's decent, unreliable damage
gaunt fiber
yeah not critting is depressing
cursive portal
mossy zinc
You don't like hitting weak enemies three times and getting the crit on the last hit when they only have like 20 HP left?
cursive portal
0!
honest kernel
Or, even better, get the crit on an enemy that has 5 armor left
When it would already be dead with a non deadly strike attack boon
Oh yeah this also totally comes at a good time because I absolutely do not want Artemis to show up in my 64 heat attempts for those reasons.
mossy zinc
Just get Hunter's Mark and you'll be able to do what you could have been doing the whole time with Heartbreak Strike.
Deadly Strike players: "Hey look, I can one-shot enemies just like you now with Hunter's Mark!"
Heartbreak Strike players: "WHAT DID YOU SAY? I CAN'T HEAR YOU, THIS CALL M SPAMMING EVERY 5 SECONDS IS TOO LOUD!"
honest kernel
Oh yeah does anyone remember the death defiance bug
Where an Athena Death Defiance could replace the Stubborn Defiance
How about making the Death Defiance you bought vanish into thin air
Skelly Tooth opened up a DD slot. Charon Well now sells a DD. I buy it, then swap off of the Tooth.
The DD is now gone
honest kernel
If I could replicate that, and swap the tooth first, what happens ?
Does it let me buy the DD or not.
This is so janky
mossy zinc
I predict you just can't buy it.
mossy zinc
This is such an edge case that stuff like that just easily slips by. m very sure I've bought a Kiss of Styx before in mirrorless with Lucky Tooth equipped, but not between biomes, so that didn't happen.. and I probably lost the run before that or something, so I never noticed.
honest kernel
I wouldn't be surprised if I was the first lol
mossy zinc
Yeah. I know of 3 people who did RI4 before 1.0, and only 5 RI4 clears.
cursive portal
Cursed
mossy zinc
Actually, 4 people and 6 clears. There was the max Heat routed win.
honest kernel
With Chaos Shield, yeah
mossy zinc
He kept insisting I look down on routed wins when I tried to tell him I just don't care about routed.
spring magnet
i happen to be an enjoyer of festive fog
but
is it eny viable on tryhard high heat runs?
gaunt fiber
Athena must hate skelly tooth idk
mossy zinc
is it eny viable on tryhard high heat runs?
Absolutely.
gaunt fiber
is it eny viable on tryhard high heat runs?
If you like it, just play it
You'll be able to get it consistently until very high heats
spring magnet
time to open up a bottle of vine bois
gaunt fiber
can't say it helps a lot though
But Achilles feat Ice wine is pretty good so why not
flat flicker
Zeus shield with scintillating feast is super based
cursive portal
But Achilles feat Ice wine is pretty good so why not
Im a base ball enjoyer
B A L L S
kbm balls are too satisfying
bronze viper
Skelly Tooth opened up a DD slot. Charon Well now sells a DD. I buy it, then swa...
Skelly tooth strikes again
Competing with Beo for bugs per second
radiant oriole
if you guys had to rank it compared to other hermes boons, how good is rush recovery?
health back if you dash after being hit
mossy zinc
Do you also want to hear what girls think or just guys?
ripe ermine
I’d say it’s generally worse than more dashes or hyper sprint, better than a cast boon if I’m generally ignoring casts. At worst any middling Hermes boon is an easy sell for Underworld Customs.
mossy zinc
No Heart Rend, no Chaos boons... I see what the problem is.
flat flicker
Zag bow not bad
mossy zinc
Well, there was a Soul.
flat flicker
Do I want aphro or artemis attack tho
Gonna try for 32 later since 25 was kind of a breeze lol
hoary pasture
No Heart Rend, no Chaos boons... I see what the problem is. <:dusa:5222487714095...
I'll totally blame it on that and not em4
mossy zinc
Well, you'll want a powerful build for EM4, so it's kind of both lol.
gaunt fiber
Good build
Deadly concentrated is poggies
Maybe tooth would have been better
Hard to make use of spearpoint while staying far away
hoary pasture
Yea I realized it was a bad idea once I took a spear to the face for 100
bronze viper
Heartbreak Strike + Zeus' Aid.
Uncharacteristic of me but I do actually prefer Aphro over Arty attack for Zag Bow, provided you have twin or triple (obv Artemis pays off perfect and point blank so much harder). Having outs for Smoldering Air is enormous for Zag Bow and the high non crit damage is clutch if you don't have Splash Dash or whatever for incidental damage
(though I think I do actually start Poseidon more often than not on Zag Bow now lol)
mossy zinc
Tidal Dash hurts Triple Shot a lot.
bronze viper
It does yeah. Makes up for it by killing the crap out everything until you get it though.
flat flicker
I did tidal dash with twin and chain shot
Prob suboptimal but the main takeaway was I easily beat 25 and zag bow prob isn’t trash after all
mossy zinc
Tidal Dash with Twin Shot is pretty good, yeah.
It's mainly just Triple Shot that's hurt by it, and those two are the best Zag Bow hammers.
flat flicker
It’s rare to see a crit build actually hold up
Heart rend via flourish was actually worth doing
bronze viper
It’s rare to see a crit build actually hold up
Lol huh? Pretty much any aspect can throw Artemis somewhere and do great.
flat flicker
Im bad at nemesis
cursive portal
S a m e
mossy zinc
I see you're not using Fidi for EM4.
next acorn
what does fidi do
mossy zinc
Dusa deals good damage, tanks projectiles, and petrifies unarmored summons.
mossy zinc
m serious about using Fidi for EM4.
elfin rock
i prefer than to meg
next acorn
meg is quick damage you can reliably get with good setups
than takes too long to activate for not enough extra damage
mossy zinc
Meg's damage doesn't matter too much during EM4.
elfin rock
than's takes long to activate yes
but isnt that hard to hit
it makes fighting theseus as if ur only fighting him with half his health
unborn fjord
meg is just easier to set up and hit way more reliably
elfin rock
for the cost of 1k damage
unborn fjord
it makes fighting theseus as if ur only fighting him with half his health
Meg does that too 🙂
elfin rock
2.5k vs 3.5k
unborn fjord
hitting 100% of the time vs 70% of the time
they're both good all companions are, Meg is just more reliable in more situations compared to Than's, you can make a case for Than being better sure, but Meg is usually just faster, hits more often, and isn't that much worse
unborn fjord
yup
next acorn
Meg's damage doesn't matter too much during EM4.
moreso just the rest of the run
next acorn
meg can do much better if you know how to use it well
flat flicker
But than def saved my bacon vs a lasering dad back when I was bad
unborn fjord
That goes for everything in the game Meg can do much much better with the right setup compared to Than
quartz mantle
2.5k vs 3.5k
2.5k vs 0 sometimes lol
The reason people use Meg is cause she works against almost every boss and Miniboss and works quickly too
Plus Meg on witches is way easier to set up
Although I’m not apposed to trying to find a Mort setup on Witches
I think the strat is just run to the center > summon > run to the Meg spot and hope the witches move towards the circle
elfin rock
eh i guess it's opinionated
quartz mantle
I think the main thing is there are a lot of resources on properly using Meg and people are used to her moreso than Than
eternal hare
You can't really argue that than somehow comes out quicker than Meg when he doesn't
You can def make than work and I've used him a lot casually but there were enough things that came up that convinced me to switch
solar maple
mort is pretty ok, could see it being better in heroes especially
meg much more useful in minibosses and such
cursive portal
Probably isnt
quartz mantle
Power couple timing is very particular
From what I’ve found for sneak you just kinda summon him early and hope sneak teleports into the hitbox lmao
mossy zinc
m much more interested in Fidi for Erebus and EM4 than Battie for minibosses at this point. I mean Battie is definitely the pick for speed, no question.
Easier Erebus also means a stronger build going into EM4.
quartz mantle
Yea I think high heat has a lot more options for summons than zoomin at low any heat
bronze viper
EM4 kinda brought zoomies back into heat though, it takes so long to just finish the fight, even dying aside
gaunt fiber
what's a zoomy
bronze viper
speedrunning
bronze viper
Not so elegant zoomies: https://www.reddit.com/r/husky/comments/q3n2nt/i_feel_her_pain_lol/
radiant oriole
wish i had personal liability for these high heat runs
could make this so much easier
didnt make my first file in hell mode
narrow carbon
If you’re not on console, you can download a full high heat save
flat flicker
Remind me to never take chaos curse that makes me slow
Had everything I needed for a 40 and blew it in asphodel anywya
mossy zinc
could make this so much easier
It also forces you into CP1. The difference isn't that big and doesn't really matter until like mid-high 50s tbh.
flat flicker
For 40 heat beo with em4 - is it better to go fo1 and take ap1 and js1 or fo2
fo2 hard
especially when my dumb ass takes -40 movement speed and HL5 
hardy garden
well fo2 em4 happens to be really hard
just a choice of rng vs harder dad
and well
harder everything. fo2 is hard in general
flat flicker
Yeah, I feel like I could do either fo2 or hl5 but not both (but I do feel ok w em4 on beo)
Which I seriously think is because every em4 fight I always leave it on the “dum dum dum” with the text box screen and take deep breaths for like three min straight
I guess could go aphro instead and take ap1
Is a jury summons or two okay or is that just asking for it
Maybe damage control with thunder dash and jolted idk
hardy garden
well beo is just quite fast in general
so should be fine unless you get a bunch of saviors from bp
might help to go flood flare for the aoe and easier mirage shot
flat flicker
Or maybe im fine and what screwed me was taking the lower speed from chaos
Where’s my special costs 5 health for 70 p cast buff chaos 😦
mossy zinc
I feel like if you're doing EM4 at 40 to challenge yourself, then not taking FO2 doesn't really make sense.
EM4 without FO2 is not really a difficult fight.
flat flicker
EM4 without FO2 is not really a difficult fight.
It’s because em4 with fo1 is manageable for sure and that gets me to 40
But I am def open to alternate approaches on the pact (since I think cf, dc is pretty crippling which is what got me to 40 on other weapons)
mossy zinc
Yeah, but you're not doing 40 Heat just to do it or you wouldn't be taking EM4 at all.
flat flicker
Even with beowulf? I agree for pretty much every other case but it feels not as bad w beo if fo1
Assuming I get the mirage death engine running of course
mossy zinc
Why would you ever do EM4 FO1 when you could just be doing EM3 FO2 and just stomp all the bosses without any real problem at all?
mossy zinc
Well, if you want to just win 40 Heat, then don't take EM4.
hardy garden
em4 at 40 heat is just sketchy
ripe ermine
I’d do HL5 LC4 CF2 JS2 EM3 BP2 MM UC FO2 TD3 for 40 personally. EM4 hard.
Beo can shred crowds so maybe JS3 and enjoy CF1
ripe ermine
AP1 could free up 2 more for a little flexibility. Crush Shot + Snow Burst should be pretty achievable there.
flat flicker
What about em4 fo1 cf1
But if js isn’t a instant loss w TD3, maybe that’s where I’ll look
Aight here we go
ripe ermine
You got this
EM4 is just a lot. In addition to the harder fight you’ve gotta bank probably twice the time to fight him, so where you might be able to beat regular dad on 4-sack without Patty that’d be out of reach with superdad
flat flicker
I’ve long since accepted that high heat runs are at least partially up to chance
ripe ermine
Like if you just really wanna do EM4, yeah I guess maybe I’d do FO1 with the excess heat to make it more manageable and then pray for the 2-sack.
flat flicker
Blew it vs asterius
oh well
feels like if no patty probably screwed
I feel more afraid of fo2 than em4 because on fo2 at 40 I barely make it to dad 😦 but once I do beo shreds
ripe ermine
I mean yeah FO2 is generally rough
mossy zinc
But if js isn’t a instant loss w TD3, maybe that’s where I’ll look
Beowulf is literally faster than Eris, so... JS shouldn't be a problem at all.
mossy zinc
I’d do HL5 LC4 CF2 JS2 EM3 BP2 MM UC FO2 TD3 for 40 personally. EM4 hard.
Why are you not taking HS at 40? It's not EM4. The traps in the normal Hades fight are so easy to deal with. Beowulf doesn't even need to deal with them much because you just skip most of the fight because you do so much damage.
ripe ermine
Oh whoops I forgot HS. I’d take that. Hoo boy there’s CF0
mossy zinc
I'd probably take AP1 over CF2, too.
ripe ermine
Yeah AP1 isn’t a bad take for 40. With CF0 you’d probably buy your way out of anything that got scratched off
mossy zinc
They both hurt your build quality, but CF0 gives you a lot more boons and everything from shops and cheaper Braids and everything.
ripe ermine
20 obol braids are the game’s best deal for sure
mossy zinc
And Beowulf doesn't care that much about any specific Lord Hermes boons.
Anything that's dash or evasion or movement speed is fine.
Just hurts your Master Chaos chances quite a bit. But I think the Wells and Shops more than make up for it.
unique zephyr
For AP1 you need the mindset of taking a boon that’s good rather than the one you want
It helped me stay a bit more sane for Rama 45
I learned to appreciate some boons I previously ignored
mossy zinc
Well, why wouldn't you want a boon that's good? Maybe your mindset was off in the first place if you saw a good boon and felt bad about getting it.
unique zephyr
I meant being disappointed the boon you wanted was crossed off but one of the other two boons was still acceptable
I needed to learn to not reroll to chase a specific boon as hard as I did in AP0
mossy zinc
Yeah, best to just not even look at it.
unique zephyr
Yeah I closed my eyes when I picked up a boon
flat flicker
screw it im going to bed and I’ll try again tomorrow
unique zephyr
So that I didn’t see the cross out animation
bronze rapids
gnight
flat flicker
I feel like ap would be way less scary if it didn’t cross out the boon and just gave two options
bronze rapids
Dad's way of rubbing it in your face
unique zephyr
AP in its current state does feel like it mocks the player sometimes
mossy zinc
It's like when you fold in poker, you need to just forget about the hand you had. It's gone. No point in getting worked up about it, that only clouds your judgment and you end up making emotional decisions without thinking them through.
Like rolling when the odds are terrible just to try to get that boon that was crossed out... you're just wasting rolls. Even if you get lucky, it wasn't a good decision.
flat flicker
gotta train myself to not look at the crossed out one
mossy zinc
I think one of the most important issues that I notice people have when they take AP is they still make the same decisions about what exit to take or what boon to buy or what build to go for as though they didn't have AP.. and then they're disappointed or frustrated when it doesn't work out that way.
hardy garden
getting mirage shot crossed out would be fun
flat flicker
I lied and tried again..room one charge shot and two crap special hammers
I believe charge shot can be good if you aren’t me, but it feels not worth losing all the Bull rush I frames
narrow carbon
getting mirage shot crossed out would be fun <:dusa:522248771409543188>
Somewhat related (tip: don’t open unwanted duos) https://imgur.com/a/i3fwJSX
hardy garden
f
mossy zinc
I actually think you should have taken Splitting Headache the first time instead of rolling.
Or Hunter's Mark even.
hardy garden
yeah getting it outta the pool or UC fodder, no mirage is fine in aspho
mossy zinc
It's a good boon anyway with Dionysus' Aid, especially if you also have Hunter's Mark.
There are a lot of good Duo Boons that aren't the one perfect Duo Boon.
It makes sense to go for the perfect one with AP0 or if you're speedrunning with AP1+ and resetting a lot anyway looking for that perfect run.
But if you're just looking for a good run with AP1+... it actually makes a lot of sense to open up multiple Duo Boons because your chances of getting any one of them go up a lot.
And then worst case you purge it for 400ish.
narrow carbon
I cut out the long pause where I considered just taking the first duo
But, lesson is that it’s good to know which duos you’ll open
narrow carbon
Agree
hardy garden
when no fully loaded
or patty
em4 superdad is sus
lol ded first phase
maybe doing em4 50 heat when i have no em4 practice is a bad idea
pseudo flame
well gl with the trap
hardy garden
so i put on ap2
arty gave me hunter dash twice in a row so i had to reroll another time and got pressure pts instead of a core boon and now shes made me replace floodflare
10% crit chance is kinda bruh
cursive portal
@hardy garden that pact looking rough
Switch to hell mode file with v1.1.1 of the modpack
So you don't have to take CP2
Also maybe consider some AP2 priv stat stuff like passion flare snow burst build
Flood flare's aoe can get break pots too easily
radiant oriole
It also forces you into CP1. The difference isn't that big and doesn't really ma...
late reply ik but honestly CP1 isnt too bad. CP2 though....
mossy zinc
I mean nothing is really too bad on its own.
quartz mantle
CP1 isn’t too bad
CP1 JS3 TD3 on the other hand…
Jokes aside if you’re trying to avoid CP1 at 45+ heat you’re gonna have a jank time
mossy zinc
More evidence that Fidi is best. https://clips.twitch.tv/PoorIgnorantClipsdadStoneLightning-j0BDRqs4Z3OkG8Yh
trim sigil
I mean nothing is really too bad on its own.
RI4 is fairly bad on its own, although it does have it coming with like 4 pact points/8 heat 
mossy zinc
RI4 on its own is free.
hearty onyx
That's just a no mirror run
gaunt fiber
Which is super sad
bronze rapids
every time I hear "high heat boonless mirrorless" I wonder if youall are okay
waxen relic
I did a chilly Guan You 0-Heat yesterday, I'm fine. The file was quite fresh too. 
gaunt fiber
Level 1 GY ofc?
waxen relic
Nah
gaunt fiber
waxen relic
Gotta leave room for improvement.
gaunt fiber
True
bronze rapids
we gaming
bronze viper
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/787779476888354816/897117960563478598/133...
That's really unfortunate. You were so close to getting Greater Evasion.
cursive portal
lmao
flat flicker
So I got charged shot to work on 34 but it was a natural mirage shot in first room of asphodel w Dionysus cast
And fully loaded in elysium
And bad news
What else can I do with it
quartz mantle
Murder
flat flicker
Like is charged shot actually good or was it just because I got like four legendaries
bad news I’ve gotten twice ever
narrow carbon
Charged shot is good, until you need the iframes from the regular bull rush (like 50 Heat or more)
flat flicker
Splash dash did like 40 p of the work
Yeah that was the problem I had
I like that defensive attack thing
Charged shot feels like the zag bow
narrow carbon
Yeah, that hammer is like a different aspect
quartz mantle
Splash dash can be kinda annoying without charged shot so getting it can make splash dash a lot more usable
flat flicker
Yeah I think splash dash with breaking wave and the legendary did like, 30 p of my damage
Maybe not that much but like, a dash would one shot an unarmored dude
flat flicker
yeah lol
i was like
skeptical about charge shot
but the first room was charge shot so i just restarted and figured let's give it a chance
fully loaded mirage shot
i was like, worried about not getting scintillating feast
didnt need it
tho i think i prefer bull rushes
flat flicker
True
flat flicker
Bull rushes cozy
How much tho, since it feels like most of the damage comes from cast
hardy garden
beo 50 thx for the tips 🙏 @cursive portal https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/897353990671585300/unknown.png
hardy garden
yeah chill and good damage and ps is great
cursive portal
beo 50 is definitely not easy, congrats
hardy garden
so for zag sword 40 heat youd prolly do ME right
mossy zinc
Heartbreak Strike and Smoldering Air.
hardy garden
thatd be pretty good too but youre also just a little bit biased though
hardy garden
deflect kinda comfy though but yeah less rng involved
mossy zinc
Yeah, Deflect is great.
You have a chance at Divine Dash on top of everything else with a Smair build. You don't really get to apply Weak in an ME build.
ME works, though.
cursive portal
so for zag sword 40 heat youd prolly do ME right <:thanthink:669246004142538753>
Yep
Its what I did for its 40
waxen relic
Speeder Elite Swordsmen in Erebus are quite funny. Been a while.
bronze rapids
One time there a speeder elite numbskull hit me the frame it spawned, sad moment
"why were you even near a spawn point" I know I know lesson learned
hardy garden
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/895785162502184981/unk...
bp2, js1, cp1 makes elysium
flat flicker
so should I have gone unhealthy fixation or smoldering with Zeus call aphro attack 32 zag bow (died to asterius and Theseus again…)
flat flicker
hl1 lc4 em3 bp2 td3 mm uc fo2
flat flicker
i think youre right
hardy garden
oh, heighten securty?
thats my stupid hc lvl 1 guan yu pact
flat flicker
Word
pseudo flame
i think CF2 is prolly the 100% pick for high heat
plain shuttle
yeah anything that doesnt directly impact enemy power or survival is a must pick
flat flicker
Yeah cf2 prob not as bad as fo2
bronze rapids
AP is also not bad on Zag bow if you want to keep CF0
pseudo flame
i think if AP2, he could prolly start with shackle?
bronze viper
32 AP2 what in the
Also fwiw Zag bow scales absurdly hard with hammers so AP2 isn't super recommended unless you're seeded. It has a solid number of good hammers but bow has a ton of special hammers in the pool too.
pseudo flame
heh if u ask me TD3 my always never picked choice 😄
i'll take RI4 over TD3
but maybe AP1? most of the time it isn't that bad
bronze rapids
AP1 lets you knock off 2 heat points somewhere else, and Zag bow doesn't get too screwed over with bad boons
hardy garden
ap isnt horrible but ap2 definitely is
bronze rapids
also fwiw lucking into Perfect Twin Anvil on my AP2 Zag 32 likely made me biased
bronze viper
pfft "average AP2 selecter" they said
plain shuttle
AP1 isnt that bad for zag bow
bronze viper
Yeah AP1 is fine. I mean I'd still rather fill in the HLs and CFs but yeah
I know some people are allergic to CF
hardy garden
armies of those spitter snake heads in aspho are always fun
like witches
well my god pool was messed up anyways
bronze viper
"pff this run was dumb anyway. I would have been embarrassed to win this one"
bronze rapids
CF makes me cry, at least with AP I can laugh at the jank it gives
coarse acorn
Eris is fun
bronze rapids
Eris is fun
yes
hardy garden
the funny thing is i wouldve won if i wasnt stupid and remembered to kill myself before picking up an athena boon in styx
bronze rapids
i lost a 40 heat zag bow run cuz my dash button died
🇫
mossy zinc
hl1 lc4 em3 bp2 td3 mm uc fo2
Have you tried...
Nyaanyaa's 32 Heat Guide
HL5 LC4 CF2 EM3 BP2 MM UC TD3
Stubborn Defiance
> Owl Pendant > Lucky Tooth/Acorn > Acorn
hardy garden
yeah at 32 you can just turn off fo completely
cursive portal
Why would you though
EM3 or BP2 CF2 are harder than FO2 imo
Atleast trade CF2 for FO1
CF big stink
shy plinth
I do fo2 hl1 cf0
But nyaanyaa's guide has anecdotally been the highest winrate pact for new 32 players
plain shuttle
FO2 can be hard af on certain weapons at 32
coarse acorn
Have you tried...
**Nyaanyaa's 32 Heat Guide**
HL5 LC4 CF2 EM3 BP2 MM UC TD3
St...
I'll try this once i get more comfortable playing something like 16-20 heat
mossy zinc
You can run circles around FO0 enemies. That's why.
EM3 FO0 is super easy, barely an inconvenience.
The strategy of the pact is to make encounters as easy as possible.
BP2 without FO is pretty chill.
Especially with a weapon like bow where enemies are just never gonna reach you.
Weak negates most of HL5, too.
coarse acorn
You can run circles around FO0 enemies. That's why.
So Hestia /eris would do good too? Also does this pact assume that you are more comfortable with another 20 heat config than hats?
Bcs i want to be able to play lower heat first
Like, comfortably
mossy zinc
It doesn't assume anything except that you can clear in under 20 minutes at least some of the time.
Which is easy enough to do with a bit of practice.
coarse acorn
I can do that
At least, i can on eris and fists
And i don't know if those would be good on hl5
Bcs of melee range
mossy zinc
Yeah, those are fine with HL5. You'd want to start Thunder Signet for Lightning Strike on Eris.
hardy garden
eris can kill things so fast you dont even have to worry if theres no fo2 as long as youre building it properly
mossy zinc
You're still gonna take way less damage with HL5 FO0 than you would with HL0 FO2.