since then you only have to dash once and wait and move on to another pile of enemies\
#h1-high-heat-strategies
jaunty falcon
It's still gonna slow you down a lot
wintry berry
hey, maybe there's some hidden tech to discover on arthur
wintry berry
My arthur heat wr is beatable, i've done it because it was free wr
undone tartan
Im gonna be honest it’s a little frustrating to hear you act like you’re gonna do this. Maybe it’s just me, but like if I walked up to some aspiring Olympic runners and went “yeah, I’m gonna run the 100 meters in under half of world record time” they would probably make fun of me and I would deserve it 
thorny veldt
hey, maybe there's some hidden tech to discover on arthur
imo people dont use special enough they just forget about it except for setting up barrier
jaunty falcon
Beating 60 heat is not comparable to halving a WR
undone tartan
I don’t think that’s hidden tech
thorny veldt
like you have a move with potentially another boon effect and people just dont use it
undone tartan
Beating 60 heat is not comparable to halving a WR
Maybe not
But still
It’s kinda annoying
hallow garnet
probably because the barrier is the best part about the special
and arthur’s regular attack just does
thorny veldt
My arthur heat wr is beatable, i've done it because it was free wr
for arthur do you use mnk or controller
hallow garnet
chonky damage
jaunty falcon
It's like some untrained guy saying they'll run a 10.3
wintry berry
for arthur do you use mnk or controller
mkb
wintry berry
I didn't try controller
thorny veldt
ive tried both and mnk feels way better
undone tartan
“Oh hey Tailesque? Yeah congrats on the 60 heat win. I’ll probably do that next week. Yeah I’m still working on 46 heat right now, but like I’m gonna do it. Also I’m gonna do it with Zag fists. You guys are just not utilizing all of the weapon’s tools, so I’ll show you how to do it. Alright, back to 46 heat.”
thorny veldt
“Oh hey Tailesque? Yeah congrats on the 60 heat win. I’ll probably do that next ...
I sound stupid because I am stupid
undone tartan
🆗?
undone tartan
Just set realistic goals
thorny veldt
i hate saying might or maybe or I'd like to
jaunty falcon
SMART targets
thorny veldt
for now ill strive for 54
jaunty falcon
Strive for 32
undone tartan
And don’t tell a channel full of people who grind high heat that you’re going to break the Arthur world record by 7 heat
hallow garnet
Imagine they do though
undone tartan
If you can’t beat 32 yet
narrow carbon
Just let MichelleMa have their project, sheesh
hallow garnet
so based
undone tartan
Lmao
undone tartan
It’s like the person on the HK server who started talking about how they could probably do R5 but they had never even attempted P4 yet
Except R5 is a more realistic goal than an aspect WR by 7 heat
thorny veldt
hmmm maybe for DC2 double nova could be nice]
undone tartan
No for DC2 you want drunken dash probably
narrow carbon
You can have both
hallow garnet
double nova is a hammer tho
undone tartan
You probably want your hammers to do more. Like Shadow Slash or Double Edge
jaunty falcon
I'd seed dedge and start tidal dash hopefully into razor shoals
undone tartan
I’m a big fan of Razor Shoals
thorny veldt
does razor shoals do more damage in fo2
thorny veldt
oh yeah duh it only matters if theyre moving
thorny veldt
Jolted does tho
yeah thats why i do at least fo1 for my any heat runs
undone tartan
Razor Shoals did so much damage during my 45 heat Zag spear run
It’s a very strong boon for bosses
thorny veldt
gonna try poseidon special, might help keep armored foes away from me while im setting up the barrier
narrow carbon
Here’s @wintry berry’s WR if you want to study https://youtu.be/kcMDbT9y9no
thorny veldt
Here’s <@!247432093834018816>’s WR if you want to study https://youtu.be/kcMDbT9...
thanks!
undone tartan
gonna try poseidon special, might help keep armored foes away from me while im s...
I also think you might be underestimating how much of an issue TD will be
thorny veldt
oh i know it will be an issue
undone tartan
Why ping
Idk they do things differently around here. Especially Nyaa. She loves just pinging anyone
thorny veldt
ill need a 2 sack good npc luck and to take every shop
undone tartan
She’ll meme ping top players
hallow garnet
Based
undone tartan
gonna try poseidon special, might help keep armored foes away from me while im s...
Just do 32 heat before you worry about offensively high heat 
narrow carbon
Eh, Nephi is online and was in the channel recently, figured no problem
undone tartan
Targeting System or Piercing Fire for 45 heat Hestia? I already have Hazard Bomb, and a good attack and special boon
They both seem very appealing
wintry berry
Targeting is a safe pick, piercing if you are able to make a line of foes
undone tartan
Alright I’m not great with Hestia so I’ll take Targeting
undone tartan
narrow carbon
For Arthur, skimming Nephi’s video, maybe EM4 can push the WR to 57, but you’d need a faster Tartarus (was around 5mins) and Elysium (was around 6mins). Nephi got Eury, Patty, 1 Chaos and 2-sack (I didn’t see any fountains, but I was scrubbing fast - didn’t check for any missed midshops)
spice lava
But no offense, I’d bet my life savings you never get it
@undone tartan No offense but if people want to try 60 heat, please let them do what they want, don't influence them by adding your own visions or limits like that. Maybe you're right but if you end up killing someone's motivation that way it's not good
undone tartan
I’m only saying it’s absurd because they haven’t even best 32 yet
mossy zinc
How much is that?
thorny veldt
she/her btw are my pronouns
undone tartan
she/her btw are my pronouns
I use they/them to avoid misgendering anyone, but if I know them I will do my best to remember it
undone tartan
How much is that?
Not a whole lot
narrow carbon
His 0.02 cents
undone tartan
0.02 cents? So like… $0.0002
spice lava
I understand but saying that's it's hard because only 3 people did it and saying it's not a good idea because 32 should be done first isn't the same
undone tartan
Oh that’s not what I was saying
thorny veldt
and i am doing 32 first lol
undone tartan
I understand but saying that's it's hard because only 3 people did it and saying...
In fact, I was making a case that she should increase the heat since she’s doing such a brutal 32 heat pact just for personal challenge reason
mossy zinc
Good. Keep at it.
mossy zinc
In fact, I was making a case that she should increase the heat since she’s doing...
Scared of her pact?
undone tartan
Me? Yeah I would never run 32 heat with FO2 HL5 EM4
pseudo kernel
git gud
undone tartan
narrow carbon
atticor’s RI4 32 heat all aspects backs away into the bushes
spice lava
Alright then, sorry for the interruption
undone tartan
*atticor’s RI4 32 heat all aspects backs away into the bushes*
Well yeah he’s Atticor
“Mirrorless Master”
mossy zinc
Wasn't even the first to do 32+ mirrorless smh.
narrow carbon
All aspects though?
mossy zinc
Not the first to do all weapons, either.
Not the highest heat mirrorless, either.
Neither seeded nor unseeded.
Mirrorless Master?
Or Mirrorless Master*?
narrow carbon
We can be happy for atticor. I’m not claiming he’s the best
undone tartan
He may not be the best Mirrorless player, but if he’s the master of something, it’s definitely Mirrorless
narrow carbon
There can be many masters indeed
thorny veldt
I want to be a master of arthur
mossy zinc
lol not for mirrorless, there aren't even enough who've done mirrorless 32+ for there to be "many".
spice lava
How many then?
mossy zinc
No, not how many. How few.
elfin rock
(i haven t)
spice lava
Is FO0 allowed for mirrorless ?
mossy zinc
Sure.
mossy zinc
I mean you can do mirrorless without RI4, but it's 8 free Heat, essentially.
undone tartan
I will not be the master of anything, because I honestly do not have enough general video game skill to consider myself a master. However, I’m content to do runs between 40 and 50 heat and be satisfied for each personal record I break knowing that it’s better than most people will ever do
mossy zinc
10 people have done RI4 32+, 8 unseeded.
solemn pulsar
I mean you can do mirrorless without RI4, but it's 8 free Heat, essentially.
What
lol
solemn pulsar
Oh tru
mossy zinc
Or being a vampire
No, it's mirrorless, not mirror-image-less.
A vampire can have a mirror.
spice lava
I will not be the master of anything, because I honestly do not have enough general video game skill to consider myself a master. However, I’m content to do runs between 40 and 50 heat and be satisfied for each personal record I break knowing that it’s better than most people will ever do
@undone tartan Rock Lee style, become a master of effort
mossy zinc
Master of getting participation trophies.
But that one really goes to @shy plinth. When are you submitting a run to the leaderboard? 
And no, the "test" runs don't count.
hallow garnet
I will not be the master of anything, because I honestly do not have enough gene...
jack of all trades
Master of nunya
eternal hare
same
spice lava
How much Heat? 👀
spice lava
Only 45 is actually good
wintry berry
good
undone tartan
And I’ve now beat it with 3 aspects
spice lava
It's improvement
undone tartan
Which feels pretty good
mossy zinc
Don't put "only" in front of all your accomplishments. 
undone tartan
It’s all good
mossy zinc
Now I didn't say that, either. Some are bad, like I've seen runs where you didn't have a 
.
Awful.
hallow garnet
Don't put "only" in front of all your accomplishments. <:courte5Ohno:85156835128...
False. Always put only in front of your accomplishments
humble brag always
spice lava
Just mark "Few Heat, only 45" instead
mossy zinc
Just put WR.
wintry berry
"WR, in my world"
undone tartan
"WR, in my world"
“I bet this is the highest heat anyone’s ever beat with these exact boons at that exact level and rarity on this aspect.”
Nyaa what’s your top 5 for the best aspects in the game?
undone tartan
Eww
thorny veldt
zag aspect sword lel
undone tartan
Joker what’s your favorite aspect
mossy zinc
My top 5 is just the top 5 on the leaderboard.
Zeus, Rama, Beowulf, Zag Shield, Hestia.
undone tartan
I used to be a fan of Hera
mossy zinc
Hera sucks at high heat ngl.
undone tartan
That’s why I don’t like it anymore 
mossy zinc
It's not. But it's top 4 on the leaderboard lol.
I mean it's good because it's a shield, though.
undone tartan
True
mossy zinc
Zeus, Beowulf, Rama, Hestia, Eris.
mossy zinc
In no particular order.
undone tartan
hallow garnet
so now you are legally obligated to become besties
mossy zinc
Have you played that aspect? It's dumb how easy it is with so little effort lol.
undone tartan
Beowulf and Eris are super fast
Zeus, Rama, Beowulf are the best high heat aspects
Hestia is really good… but…
undone tartan
Have you played that aspect? It's dumb how easy it is with so little effort lol.
Ironically I find it to be one of the hardest aspects for me to play
mossy zinc
I'd probably put Hestia above Eris and Rama.
jaunty falcon
Yeah
mossy zinc
The only pact that has any real impact on how you play Hestia is DC. Think about that.
undone tartan
Spear is better than sword and fists. It’s the best of the bad weapons
mossy zinc
Maybe.
thorny veldt
what rank would yall put arthur at
undone tartan
It’s better at high heat and better at speed
thorny veldt
i think its pretty low but not sure how low
undone tartan
It’s honestly my favorite sword at the very least
It’s just a lot safer than Nemesis
Nemesis is better though
mossy zinc
Nemesis and Demeter have somewhat decent DPS right from the start. Spear really suffers without specific hammers.
undone tartan
That’s very true
hallow garnet
arthur out of all the aspects? Mid in general
jaunty falcon
Hades spear has big spin, and Guan yu has big special
mossy zinc
If you just want to win anything up to 32 Heat and don't self-sabotage with your pact setup, Excalibur is probably top 5 easy.
thorny veldt
i think you should make 2 lists, one for heat and one for speed
thorny veldt
Nah just heat and speed
If you’re combining heat and speed you can read between the lines
mossy zinc
For speedruns? Probably bottom 1. And for high heat hmmmm. Well, somewhere at the bottom. The HP is good, but the DPS is just gonna hold you back, and it's not particularly better than other swords in EM4.
jaunty falcon
Charged shot is just wide zag bow 
narrow carbon
Chiron somewhere in bottom for speed
honest kernel
arthur is nice until you go above 40 then speed becomes an issue me think
mossy zinc
You're still actually playing the aspect in Chaos speedruns. Excalibur speedruns are Cast builds.
jaunty falcon
Or splitting bolt resets
mossy zinc
Oh, with Thunder Dash?
Time to change the meta and reset for Tidal Dash Sea Storm Splitting Bolt.
Wow, I can't believe you'd do that @undone tartan.
mossy zinc
What do I think of what? I didn't see your message, just that it was removed lol.
mossy zinc
What is that list for?
mossy zinc
Wow, you really don't like Hades Aspect lol.
mossy zinc
I guess I'd have an opinion if you didn't confound high heat and any heat speedruns.
undone tartan
But it was literally just a worse version of Zag spear
jaunty falcon
I'll make a list in a few mins, I'll try and make it as complicated as possible
undone tartan
I guess I'd have an opinion if you didn't confound high heat and any heat speedr...
Hard to disagree if you’re not entirely sure what I’m basing it off 
mossy zinc
It's almost like I know Malphon or something.
undone tartan
Well it’s not even that, I just actually didn’t think about my list hard enough
mossy zinc
If any heat speedruns and high heat are equally weighted, then Rama in S makes no sense.
undone tartan
They’re not equally weighted in the way you’re imagining
If a weapon is amazing at one thing but bad at the other, it’s still S
mossy zinc
m not imagining anything. I think your criteria were almost entirely ad hoc anyway.
sand temple
so you just rank them in both and take the highest value?
mossy zinc
No, UnholyPancake put Rama in S because it felt right and is now rationalizing it.
undone tartan
Nah Rama is better for high heat than Hestia
jaunty falcon
No
mossy zinc
For you? Evidently.
undone tartan
It would be silly to put Hestia above Rama if Rama is better than Hestia at the thing Hestia is best at
Well yeah that’s my opinion
There’s no fact here, all we really have are the records and according to world records, Rama has beaten a higher heat than Hestia
Therefore I can’t be wrong, although it doesn’t make me necessarily right
jaunty falcon
Heat WRs are made because the people attempting them enjoy certain aspects
At 50 heat, Hestia is probably the most popular aspect by far
mossy zinc
Well yeah that’s my opinion
No I mean it's better for you specifically. If something works better for you, doesn't really matter if the other one works better for other players.
The more specific you try to make a tier list, anyway, the more likely you're wrong.
Like trying to tell which is better between Hestia and Rama... they're both very obviously top tier.
jaunty falcon
Eg my tierlist that I made in 30s doesn't take into account that you might not get flurry jab
Tierlists suck
spice lava
It's personal but I can say that after +800 hours on the game that I did 53 Hestia and 50 Zag bow but I still not have a clue if I have a real favorite aspect
Maybe one day I'll finally treasure one aspect and my high heat results will skyrocket
jaunty falcon
Arthur maybe?
spice lava
I think I'd probably have a better picture if I clear 50 on the 6 weapons
Maybe Arthur who knows
thorny veldt
Usually in games I don’t find that one weapon or character but arthur just does it for me
undone tartan
My favorite is probably Rama but also shields are really good so maybe Zeus? Idk
Probably Rama
spice lava
Nyx would probably say that it's Fate: You don't choose an aspect, the aspect chooses you
shy plinth
But that one really goes to <@!145977230034599937>. When are you submitting a ru...
I recorded a couple yesterday but none were wins 😦
mossy zinc
Nice. Keep at it!
shy plinth
I have a billion 32s but I need more 40s
spice lava
If you mix 2 32 heat runs, can you obtain a 64 clear? 
mossy zinc
Afraid not.
mossy zinc
Soul.
gaunt fiber
Flourish for the scaling
we ain't weaklings that need hp
You're on JS2 CP2 DC2, time could be an issue
spice lava
All are good because no bad curse but flourish or ambush because dmg is probably the first emergency to get out of Tartarus imo
gaunt fiber
I think flourish is genuinely the right choice here, jokes aside
RI0 will provide enough hp on its own
Special bonus is unique and only available through chaos
mossy zinc
A common Flourish will honestly barely do anything.
gaunt fiber
I would not consider the special damage on anything other than Arty since the hp is epic
You'll feel the difference
mossy zinc
It only makes a difference if you hit damage breakpoints faster, and 34% barely helps with that. With that pact, you're gonna need to find a dash and other things asap to help in the first place. Things like that are gonna matter a lot more.
And also just enemy RNG and room RNG.
undone tartan
It doesn’t matter because I got a terrible hammer and gave up lol
I’m gonna do a different weapon or something idk
mossy zinc
I'd say you'd probably wanna start with a Dash for AOE in the first place with JS2 DC2 TD3 on Chiron.
Or Drunken Flourish.
gaunt fiber
almost every hammer is good for chiron
undone tartan
Well sure but it’s 45 heat so I need something good
gaunt fiber
well yes
undone tartan
As in, conc volley, relentless volley, or piercing volley
Not sniper shot, explosive shot, or flurry shot
gaunt fiber
sniper is the only bad option
spice lava
Flurry is good actually
gaunt fiber
it will be frustrating one time or two
spice lava
The less enemies with Chiron, the better
gaunt fiber
but RI0 will provide you a build
undone tartan
I just really wanted to be able to grab relentless and concentrated. Doesn’t matter, I’m swapping to something else
gaunt fiber
you can reset for that if you want
undone tartan
Nah I don’t really care that much
Was just doing one run to see if I got anything good
mossy zinc
I think your starting keepsake was already self-sabotage with that pact.
undone tartan
I think it’s time to finally do 40 heat Hera 
mossy zinc
Just reset for epic Cast damage in Tartarus.
undone tartan
I’ve tried so many times but Hera is just kinda bad
mossy zinc
I don't enjoy high heat Hera very much.
undone tartan
Yeah it’s rough
undone tartan
Sword and fists are bad
wintry berry
until you get an ME build
undone tartan
Even then idk
All I have left for 40 heat is:
- Zag sword
- Nemesis
- Poseidon
- Zag fists
- Talos
- Gilgamesh
Aka: 4 ME builds, a crit build, and phalanx shot
honest kernel
have you tried drunken fists they worked well for my 40 clears
undone tartan
I’ll be honest I have not
honest kernel
might be worth a shot
eternal hare
you can run drunken strike nem too
shy plinth
Also lightning fists are just fine
undone tartan
That’s what I did for Demeter fists
solar maple
I did drunken strike for 5/6 of those. The other is gilga which I don't have any sort of clear on
wait no poseidon I did phalanx shot
shy plinth
Play more gilga
What do you pair drunken strike with, Aphro?
Ares special I guess but that seems a little sus
eternal hare
throw a few poms into drunken strike and pile on the safety
quartz mantle
Drunken strike could make pretty good use of PS
DC is usually pretty free with hangover builds
waxen relic
<@!469811780160454716> when is 51 Heat mirrorless?
Once i got gud? Couldn't even finish 50 Heat RI3 on Beo this week. 
And if anyone has a better alliteration to mirrorless than master i'm listening.
Then again i can't see how much of a fool i am without a mirror, so i can just stick with master i think. 
gaunt fiber
That feel when you don't need a mirror to know you're a clown 
waxen relic
strats.
lucid atlas
“Mirrorless Magician” cause of the magic that happens? 😆
thorny veldt
When I’m good at the game I wanna do a meme run where I do like lightning strike on arthur and drunken flourish or something stupid
waxen relic
shy plinth
"vampire"
strange parrot
@undone tartan Why should you not run RL1?
undone tartan
What I meant was the more experienced players can probably explain better than me
strange parrot
Ah okay
undone tartan
But the worst thing with RI is losing dark foresight
glacial gorge
When I’m good at the game I wanna do a meme run where I do like lightning strike...
Bet
strange parrot
But the worst thing with RI is losing dark foresight
Is it that bad? I ended that run with pretty beefy HP and lots of boons
undone tartan
It’s really bad
strange parrot
And a boat load of coins, spent 900 in styx and other shops
undone tartan
Is it that bad? I ended that run with pretty beefy HP and lots of boons
The ratio of gold laurels to blue laurels is 5/5 without DF and 7/3 with it
sand temple
losing 50 health, 100 gold and a small damage boost is far easier than most other 2 heat options
shy plinth
I would bet your skill is enough to overcome it but yes that is fortunate
strange parrot
Not like I'm ever gonna do 45 again tho, that was a nightmare
Gonna keep practicing 32 for a while
Maybe 45 with bow
shy plinth
Haven't you done 6x40
shy plinth
32 should be pretty easy for you I think
strange parrot
But that was a pain too
32 is easy
But 32 with FO2
when I did 32, I didn't do any FO
shy plinth
With 32 fo2 you don't have to take any hard labor
It's super nice
Well I do hl1 so I can cf0
Because that's even better
If you're used to HL5 hl1 is just a light tickle
undone tartan
I always take FO1 HL3 at 32 but I’ve been told that may not be correct
shy plinth
Fo2 hl1 cf0 is very pleasant
waxen relic
Big point is that any damage reduction applies to the HL damage essentially doubling in effect then.
mossy zinc
I dunno, man, just do RI4.
mossy zinc
Big point is that any damage reduction applies to the HL damage essentially doub...
Yeah. Meanwhile Chill doesn't do anything different with FO2 because who takes Lady Demeter boons.
mossy zinc
If it's so easy, you should do it.
mossy zinc
You're the one who said it's easy.
shy plinth
Oh I meant the addition
waxen relic
i mean i did most of it.
shy plinth
Adding those numbers to 32 was easy
shy plinth
D:
mossy zinc
I can confidently say I've done LC4, RI4, EM4, AP2, and HS.
shy plinth
That is true
strange parrot
Well... now that I have a 45 heat win
and there's no way in hell I'm gonna even try it on sword so 45 x 6 ain't happening
Gonna try 50 heat eris...
undone tartan
Oh ofc
undone tartan
I’d rather have clockets than Delta. But I’d rather have delta than cluster and some other random hammer
strange parrot
I had delta that run
delta and explosive fire worked really well
it saved me from those damn chariots
undone tartan
Explosive? How much does it actually slow by?
undone tartan
Hmm
Seems alright
I’d rather have cluster, rocket, or targeting though (assuming I have delta)
strange parrot
I got explosive 1st
quartz mantle
Explosive cucks your jolted procs
strange parrot
Really?
eternal hare
jolted doesn't exist at 50-heat unless you want to grind for it
strange parrot
how so
quartz mantle
Oh true it's 50
strange parrot
I had jolted
quartz mantle
Enemies don't attack when they get stunned
eternal hare
but also explosive hitstun means enemies won't attack as much
mossy zinc
Any hammer is better than no hammer.
quartz mantle
Explosive Shot on Rama would like to speak with you
solar maple
half the sword hammers
quartz mantle
Charged shot on mono-dash
mossy zinc
Explosive Shot Rama is fine.
quartz mantle
Ok nyaanyaa
mossy zinc
half the sword hammers <:thanthink:669246004142538753>
Flurry Slash isn't a hammer. It's a errr... screwdriver. It screws you over.
shy gulch
lmao
daring hedge
Explosive Shot Rama is fine.
With twin or triple yeah it's fine
But on its own... I dunno about that
mossy zinc
It hurts Power Shots, but it makes quick release pretty good especially with Deadly Strike.
There's a point where you really wouldn't want it, but that's well past 50.
honest kernel
it killed by 55 and im still sad about that
mossy zinc
Thanks for saving me, Explosive Shot. I wasn't planning to do 56 anytime soon.
honest kernel
astral peak
so, im trying 32 heat with demeter fist but nothing seems to work for me
stacking builds like artic blast or ares or dio duos
and getting %dmg attack is kinda hard idk
i mean chaos
whats a solid strat for the fists there?
jaunty falcon
Ares attack, Athena special, merciful end, Athena dash
astral peak
oh right, i tried to get merciful end a few times but i always forget you need athena attack or special only and not dash
undone tartan
What’s your pact?
Often a lot of difficulty from new 32 heat players comes from a bad pact
astral peak
em4 td2, aproval process1, HS, UC, MM, benefits package 1, cathelistic program 2, jury summons 1 convenience fee 2 lasting consequenses 1
undone tartan
oh god
astral peak
lastin consequenses 2*
astral peak
😆
undone tartan
So scared of FO and HL that you’re using way harder pacts, huh?
astral peak
o wait i have forced overtime 1
and yea hard labor it's what scares me the most with fists
undone tartan
I’m pretty tired rn so I leave you in the capable hands of the others on this server
undone tartan
and yea hard labor it's what scares me the most with fists
Well that should be EM4
sand temple
CP adds a similar amount of difficulty to HL but with pressure on the timer
undone tartan
Because EM4 is infinitely harder than HL, especially with fists
astral peak
ok im gonna replace that
sand temple
are you managing to deal with the timer or is it close?
jaunty falcon
I'd even do EM2 on fists ngl
astral peak
i used to go damage control 2 since fist are multi hits but i didnt like it
the timer is fine
sand temple
if you have plenty of time then you might want to consider TD3
astral peak
no TD3 already gives me trouble but TD2 is fine
sand temple
do TD3 then
astral peak
hmm
sand temple
but remove some of the other pacts which increase time taken
ripe ermine
Yeah you might find TD3 manageable without jury summons and calisthenics
astral peak
well, if i dont go em4 then i guess td3 wont be much of a problem
sand temple
effective time pressure will be similar but you won't die to enemies as easily
ripe ermine
Also yeah EM4 is a time suck
undone tartan
It’s also insanely hard
EM4 at 32 heat is a terrible idea, unless you want to make things hard on yourself
AP1 is also totally unnecessary
astral peak
phase 1 of em4, when hades summons a lot of stuff it's my biggest problem
even with my summon
undone tartan
Yeah don’t do EM4
sand temple
non EM hades should be a free win
astral peak
ok so i go full HL?
undone tartan
Your first priority should be to get rid of EM4, HS, and AP1. HS is really bad for fists, I don’t turn it on even for 42 heat fists
mossy zinc
I'd even do EM2 on fists ngl
Yeah, do that.
jaunty falcon
I think I did splash dash Gilgamesh for my singular 32 heat fist clear
ripe ermine
Why are people afraid of punching Asterius in the gold-plated armor
astral peak
ok MM and UC stays right?
sand temple
yes
astral peak
what about RI, i never marked that im not sure how it works
undone tartan
God no
ripe ermine
Noooo
sand temple
you do not want to be taking any RI for 32 heat
undone tartan
EM4, RI, AP, and CP are the pacts that are so bad they’re keeping me from going past 45
Avoid them
ripe ermine
If you want less health and poms and boons and worse boons, go for RI
undone tartan
Tempting…
astral peak
i got CP2
hardy garden
sand temple
CP2 isn't that much worse than HL in terms of making the enemies harder but it makes the deadline quite bad
hardy garden
what does your pact look like
astral peak
just a sec
hardy garden
em4 td2, aproval process1, HS, UC, MM, benefits package 1, cathelistic program 2...
oh
undone tartan
I suggest LC4 with stubborn defiance
sand temple
I would only take it if you are already running TD3 and have plenty of time leftover
hardy garden
thats kinda cursed
undone tartan
Yeah
sand temple
also BP2
hardy garden
wait lemme find my crappy demeter run 
ripe ermine
Most people don’t touch CP at all until 50+ to give you an idea of how bad it is
undone tartan
I highly suggest LC4 SD
hardy garden
undone tartan
Yeah exactly. And most people don’t touch EM4 until 55+
hardy garden
demeter fists but you dont use special
quartz mantle
EM4 is big wack on fists
undone tartan
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/887920652894490654/e...
BP1
quartz mantle
You can get away with it on like shields
astral peak
damn im in pc how do i send an img
hardy garden
prolly couldve just put damage control
clever otter
you can send a link from an image hosting site or another discord server in order to send an image
astral peak
astral peak
https://ibb.co/7VVRTG0
i think it still needs some pulishing
quartz mantle
Remove the heat from CF to do that
undone tartan
Do BP2
quartz mantle
You can do BP2 and take the heat out of TD3
astral peak
i was told to pick td3 to remove other sutff
sand temple
should probably see how close the timer is before removing TD3
undone tartan
Get rid of jury summons if you’re gonna do TD3 and aren’t too comfortable with it
quartz mantle
Eh it depends on how you wanna play
You can clear TD3 pretty easily but TD2 is very comfy
astral peak
the deal was that i was good on td2 but no 3 so i was to remove other stuff to make td3 doable
undone tartan
They’re fast
lucid atlas
**I suggest LC4 with stubborn defiance**
So do you recommend this tact across the board…regardless of heat or weapon? Like as a base that you build from in order to raise the heat while also getting accustomed to “heal” using SD?
Personally I was thinking it was best to do this with ranged and then stick to 3 DD’s with melee weapons since it is easier to avoid damage with the former…at least for me 😬
quartz mantle
Sure but I’m saying it’s not your only option
SD makes high heat easier in general
hardy garden
lc4 is more for later heats like 32+
undone tartan
So do you recommend this tact across the board…regardless of heat or weapon? Lik...
I suggest this starting at 32 heat
For any weapon
quartz mantle
The individual rooms become much less stressful and only needs you to make your boss fights a bit tighter
sand temple
you start running SD when the boss fights become easier than the normal rooms
hardy garden
also patty plus sd and a 2 sack is kinda op if you can get it
undone tartan
you start running SD when the boss fights become easier than the normal rooms
Nah, you run it well before that point
quartz mantle
Yea patty makes SD give you more total health than DDs would
undone tartan
also patty plus sd and a 2 sack is kinda op if you can get it
very true
quartz mantle
You just need like a single Athena DD
hardy garden
only problem is getting patty to appear 
quartz mantle
You usually want to max out LC or not use it at all
astral peak
im defenitely going to get hit with fists
quartz mantle
That’s what the SD is for
astral peak
ohhhh
undone tartan
You usually want to max out LC or not use it at all
LC1 is better than LC0 imo
quartz mantle
It gives you a fluid health pool rather than a static health pool
astral peak
but im gonna be at low health for the whole run
quartz mantle
The fluid health pool lets you float at around 30% of your max health through the whole run really
quartz mantle
Yea it just requires you to have tighter fights
You can also bring Athena into your pool
sand temple
SD means that you can take quite a few hits in normal rooms but boss fights generally need to be quite clean
hardy garden
just go merciful end build
quartz mantle
The big difference between SD and DDs is that you can’t face tank dad
The other bosses shouldn’t take more than 1 dd anyways
astral peak
just go merciful end build <:dusa:522248771409543188>
im doing that
hardy garden
and dont forget to lose your sd before picking up athena boons
undone tartan
Also you can get an extra DD from Athena
quartz mantle
Acorn and Athena boons make dad a lot easier anyways
astral peak
The big difference between SD and DDs is that you can’t face tank dad
i like that since im not gonna try em4 anymore for this
hardy garden
acorn when dad does up to 80 damage an attack
quartz mantle
Yea definitely do not lmao
hardy garden
yeah em4 is yikes at high heat
quartz mantle
EM4 on fists is big monkaS
Unless you’re retrash
Merciful end makes bosses easier as well cause they’ll simply die
quartz mantle
It can take some getting used to
sand temple
either way I wouldn't be using LC3
mossy zinc
If you can get two DDs from Lady Athena and Touch of Styx, you're going into the Hades fight with a lot more HP total than if you did DDs instead of SD. And that's not unreasonable to get at 32.
astral peak
well, im going TD3 so JS is not on play i guess
quartz mantle
But do some runs with it and you can get used to it
mossy zinc
So it's not just better for LC4, you also have that potential to make the Hades fight easier.
astral peak
If you can get two DDs from Lady Athena and Touch of Styx, you're going into the...
very interesting
mossy zinc
im a little hesitant at the LC4 SD strat
It's meta at high heat for a reason, yeah.
If you look at runs on the high heat leaderboard, something like 98% of them use LC4 and SD.
And when we started doing high heat runs, we tried out DDs with low LC before we really did SD LC4 strats.
sand temple
the ones that don't are running RI4 and so can't use SD or DDs
quartz mantle
I can’t remember anyone using DDs outside of that one person who did Eris 50s and then that one speedrun Cgull or Pseudo (I can’t remember)
astral peak
ok, CF2 is alright i guess
mossy zinc
CF2 is fine.
astral peak
i don't have much trouble managing my money
quartz mantle
No
Cf bad
Don’t you have DC0?
Imagine how much more money you could have without it
astral peak
DC0?
quartz mantle
Damage control
astral peak
i was about to suggest DC2
quartz mantle
You should have DC2 on fists it’s pretty free
astral peak
check
mossy zinc
DC2 on Malphon sucks.
quartz mantle
Don’t know what you mean but sure
astral peak
i dont like it but what weapon like it?
quartz mantle
Anything that attacks quickly
astral peak
how much FO and BP?
quartz mantle
So rail, fists, Rama (special helps), swords and spears with Zeus or dio attack
However much you’re comfortable with honestly
mossy zinc
Don’t know what you mean but sure
How about not being so awfully dismissive anytime I disagree with you?
quartz mantle
You can usually get away with BP2
mossy zinc
Not sure what I've done to you.
quartz mantle
FO depends on how comfortable you are with it
wintry berry
DC2 on malphon sucks ? if you aphro on attack it sucks for sure
astral peak
im going merciful end so i think it will be alrithgt
jaunty falcon
It gets better once you get a damaging dash
mossy zinc
Not being able to quickly one-shot enemies with your Dash-Upper or requiring more hits before you can stun enemies when you're constantly point-blank sucks, yes. It's alright with Lightning Strike or Drunken Strike but sucks with pretty much anything else.
E.g., ME builds early on want to just Dash-Strike enemies once and move on to the next target while Doom kills off things behind you. Can't do that with DC2 because your Doom would do no damage.
It's less impactful than on something like bow or Hestia, but it's nowhere near as "free" as people like to make it out to be.
undone tartan
DC2 is almost always hurting you more than you think it is, at least in my experience
mossy zinc
Yeah.
languid sonnet
Good hell. Idk how you ppl beat this game on over 30 heat
mossy zinc
Practice.
undone tartan
Good pacts help a lot
languid sonnet
This isn’t even fun. This is just stupid
undone tartan
32 isn’t that brutal if you have a good enough pact
languid sonnet
I’m just doing it for the statue
undone tartan
Even 40 has the leniency to avoid the really annoying stuff
languid sonnet
Once I hit the rats in the sewers it’s over
By far the worst part of trying to get through a run
I can’t put into words how much I HATE trying to choose tunnels to go through
sand temple
I don't think I have ever actually lost a run in the normal styx chambers
undone tartan
Meaning you’ve still lost some to the boss or the big final rooms?
mossy zinc
I can’t put into words how much I HATE trying to choose tunnels to go through
Do the miniboss tunnels first if you aren't doing that already.
languid sonnet
It’s not that I literally lose.
I go into the hades fight with only 1 revive and low life
That is not cutting it
astral peak
E.g., ME builds early on want to just Dash-Strike enemies once and move on to th...
well, you can dash strike twice then dash upper right away but still it negates a lot of dmg from the combo
undone tartan
Use Stubborn Defiance
astral peak
yea i really dont like DC2 even with the fists
mossy zinc
If you do DC2 on Malphon, start Lightning Strike unless you have a lot of experience with the weapon.
Then look for Static Discharge asap.
undone tartan
I go into the hades fight with only 1 revive and low life
Seriously use LC4 SD for 32, especially if you’re having this problem. That will allow you to turn down HL or FO or whatever is making it harder. God forbid you have EM4 on…
astral peak
how about LC3 HL1 SD, or is that too pusillanimous
hardy garden
bad pacts or bad mirrors must be fun
hardy garden
you aint gunna get much of anything outta 25% healing
astral peak
i was doing that with dark reneration, it was not completely useless but yea
undone tartan
Dark Regen 
languid sonnet
What would you recommend for the 32 heat? I used the fists and used Sisyphus trinket
undone tartan
Definitely still do LC4
undone tartan
What would you recommend for the 32 heat? I used the fists and used Sisyphus tri...
Why shackle?? Use god keepsakes to control your god pool
hardy garden
What would you recommend for the 32 heat? I used the fists and used Sisyphus tri...
well first of all what does your pact look like
mirror too ig
languid sonnet
It gives you 100% damage boost when not empowered by a boon. I was reading people saying to use that
hardy garden
also fists arent the easiest weapons for higher heat imo
undone tartan
It gives you 100% damage boost when not empowered by a boon. I was reading peopl...
Yes that’s what it does. But why are you using it
hardy garden
yeah shackle is not a good idea at 32 heat
jaunty falcon
It gives you 100% damage boost when not empowered by a boon. I was reading peopl...
Epic lightning strike does the same thing on fists, and has AOE and can spread jolted
undone tartan
Shackle is only with it with AP2, which you should only use above 45 heat
languid sonnet
Because it….. boosts damage when I don’t use a boon? 🤔
jaunty falcon
Shackle has its place, but not on fists
undone tartan
Because it….. boosts damage when I don’t use a boon? 🤔
Get a boon.
hardy garden
well you can also use a boon
undone tartan
hardy garden
undone tartan
Why in the world would you not want a boon
hardy garden
at 32 heat you dont need to pick the type of pacts that ruin your build enough to force you into shackle
undone tartan
That doesn’t happen until like 48+
mossy zinc
Shattered Shackle gives you a decent start in Tartarus but leaves the core of your build up to chance, and taking Shackle in Tartarus doesn't help you in Asphodel or after that.
If you want to leave your build up to chance, you're better off starting Chthonic Coin Purse and actually getting 150 obols out of it that affect your run beyond Tartarus.
mossy moon
I just beat 16 Heat, should I move on to 32 Heat right away to get the other Skelly statue? Or slowly build my way up?
undone tartan
Up to you
mossy zinc
I think finishing your bounties first with your main aspect is always good before doing 32 Heat.
Just to get that experience and practice.
flat flicker
I just beat 16 Heat, should I move on to 32 Heat right away to get the other Ske...
If they’re blowout wins, then can probably ramp it up. Either way, would recommend a few LC4 TD3 runs to get the hang of those since that’s 10 heat by itself and kinda sweat
restive cipher
does every heat level give you new bounties or is it up to a certain number?
jaunty falcon
Up to 20, and up to 25 on hell mode
restive cipher
Up to 20, and up to 25 on hell mode
oh thank lord, i was worried that would mean i'd have to max out the heat gauge on every weapon to get everything
restive cipher
so as it turns out, Demeter's blessing that causes enemies with 10% to shatter upon getting 10 stacks of chilled affects bosses
neat
restive cipher
that must have sucked
bronze rapids
timing out is a common cause of death at high heat
flat flicker
so as it turns out, Demeter's blessing that causes enemies with 10% to shatter u...
Do you need ten stacks for winter harvest?
REAP WHAT YOU SOW super based either way
left prism
Description only says that they need to have chill inflicted
next acorn
oh thank lord, i was worried that would mean i'd have to max out the heat gauge ...
You don’t need all the bounties to get everything even with it caping at 20
dreamy reef
how viable is hidden aspect for stygius on high heat?
i just got it and am absolutely in liove with it, just beat heat 6 with it
flat flicker
how viable is hidden aspect for stygius on high heat?
The weapons you do the best with are the ones you feel the best woth
6 to 32 is a massive jump but it’s def doable
Just don’t take damage control lol
It’ll make you lose
pseudo kernel
how viable is hidden aspect for stygius on high heat?
its pretty good but fo2 and dc suck with it
dreamy reef
6 to 32 is a massive jump but it’s def doable
my highest rn is 10 heat with chiron
cant imagine what hell 32 is lmao
hardy garden
also have fun with shielding numbskulls
generally 32+ is what's regarded as 'high' heat
flat flicker
cant imagine what hell 32 is lmao
Haha I mean the usual regulars of the high heat channel are either sweaty tryhards or aspiring sweaty tryhards
It took a lot of practice to get over the 32 wall
Not counting my one fluke Eris rail one in feb with a splitting bolt in first room in asphodel
hardy garden
32 isnt really that bad unless youre using a bad pact/mirror/aspect/build
40+ heat tho
dreamy reef
what I do for arthur is crit build with aphrodite and artemis
regularly hit 2-4k swings on the attacks, it's so satisfying
flat flicker
32 isnt really that bad unless youre using a bad pact/mirror/aspect/build <:boul...
Not now because we’re sweaty try hards but 6 to 32 is a bigger jump than 32 to 40 imo
undone tartan
I’m gonna be honest. Anything past 45 heat is just incredibly unfun for me
It doesn’t feel like it’s an extra challenge as much as it’s just forcing me to get really good RNG and reset a lot
I have a ton of respect for high heat runners
But I don’t think I want to go beyond 45
eternal hare
the game isn't going anywhere so if you feel like 45 is your limit for now that is totally okay and over time you may even find that the stuff that you thought you needed good rng to get through all become more manageable
flat flicker
I said that about 20 in the winter now I’ve done 40
But yeah once AP2 is in the mix
then it’s just RNG
sand temple
stuff like EM4 and CP add some extra difficulty but they are far from the optimal picks
undone tartan
AP2, RI2 and EM4 are not fun for me
I’m fine until I have to take one of those
Well EM4 is fun on low heat
eternal hare
RI2 AP2 itself is interesting in the sense that you can re-evaluate your strategy before the run even begins
sand temple
I have been running AP2 for 50 heat attempts and it is literally what I have already done but with extra resets for hammers
undone tartan
RI2 AP2 itself is interesting in the sense that you can re-evaluate your strateg...
But it just ends up requiring me to reset a ton and I don’t enjoy that
eternal hare
yeah but I mean you can try to figure out what would require you to reset the least to get what you need to clear
sand temple
I already decided that I wasn't going to bother above 50
I just want to hit the number to say that I have done it
sand temple
yeah but I mean you can try to figure out what would require you to reset the le...
well switching to less RNG dependent gods has helped but it doesn't solve the problem of hammers
eternal hare
yeah for some aspects you can't really get around hammers
but if you just want the number, your aspect choice is itself part of the strategy
and if you're just going for a clear there's still a decent amount of freedom at 50 that allows you to keep RI0 or avoid AP2 or avoid EM4
sand temple
well I can't avoid all 3
sand temple
and I think AP is the lesser of the 3 evils
daring hedge
RI2 AP2 and EM4 AP2 both have their advantages and disadvantages around 50 to where both are viable options, but yeah I would never recommend AP0 and then having to take RI2 and EM4
The latter is just brutal and not a combo you should force on yourself until you push heat well above 50, because you'd have to take both at the same time
next acorn
just do RI4 so you can do AP0 EM3
flat flicker
just do RI4 so you can do AP0 EM3 <:bouldy:523329116934635534>
Easier if you start with drunken strike Excalibur
unique zephyr
AP2, RI2 and EM4 are not fun for me
This is why I am taking a break from the game, grinding 50 heat became soul crushing
undone tartan
Very understandable
narrow carbon
Similar to what ocaml said, I prefer to not reset and just see how far I can go without the boon or hammer I wanted - it at least helped my confidence when I did get good boons
ripe ermine
Yeah it’s practice and a way to make it like a challenge to shake things up. Like just how far can I get now that I’ve been forced into Spread Fire on Eris?
next acorn
High heat resets for you
narrow carbon
It is the way
flat flicker
lately ive been scouting the first two rooms and if its a goofy hammer ive wanted to try, i do it. zag rail spread fire, was okay but didnt find heart rend 😦
so i died to theseus
flat flicker
Can’t seem to get nemesis going, feels like you need heart rend if going critical or damage doesn’t scale fast enough
undone tartan
lately ive been scouting the first two rooms and if its a goofy hammer ive wante...
I never really go for heart rend for SF Zag rail. Hunter dash is better imo
honest kernel
I did smoldering w aphro atk for nem
also double edge
bc otherwise the dmg is bad yea
mossy zinc
Gotta get something like Smoldering Air or just lots of Strike/Lunge boons from Master Chaos, yeah.
vital grove
undone tartan
Wasn’t ykc already ahead of Tail?
spice lava
Ykc did 61 heat last month, now 62 so yeah already
shy gulch
ykc a madlad
spice lava
And barrel roll challenge is still stuck at 55 Heat 👀
mossy zinc
And barrel roll challenge is still stuck at 55 Heat 👀
Do 56 then.
spice lava
I tried, it's stuck on my "unfinished business" drawer
Now that work has become healthy, maybe I can go back on it 🤔
undone tartan
What’s barrel roll
spice lava
It's on the monthly challenge spreadsheet
It started with 0 Heat and the goal is to do a barrel roll on it by doing a run with 1 more heat or doing the same heat with a faster clear time
The challenge started early 2021 and the last submit was Tailesque with 55 heat on Eris aspect with a 17:xx clear time
hallow garnet
What’s personal liability
spice lava
It's a line on the pact which belongs to Hell mode only
spice lava
On normal save if you take big damages in a short amount of time you can see a shield appearing and preventing you from taking more damage during few seconds
On Hell mode save, this shield doesn't exist because of Personal Liability
This line represents 1 Heat point and can't be removed
hallow garnet
ohhh
mossy zinc
What’s barrel roll
A barrel roll in Hades is when you get any new high heat PB or WR in Hades or are working on any new PB or WR and Tailesque hears about it thinking "this looks like fun" and immediately does a run and beats you. 🦊 🔄
A common occurence.
hallow garnet
https://tenor.com/view/owl-sector-barrel-roll-star-fox-gif-18290188
Actually that’s an aileron roll
bronze rapids
man I yoloed a 42 Zag Bow run and got Triple Flurry with Deadly Strike and died to some Elysium spears dealing 50 dmg per hit
undone tartan
I’ve had many runs go that way
It’s a shame
When a seemingly great run dies in chamber 28
undone tartan
WTF
That’s so stupid!!
Literally hits me for 96 
Why can they double hit
I’m malding
mossy zinc
Shoulda moved to the bottom right when it was about to charge.
Instead of right into the open.
mossy zinc
Thanks, Amir.
undone tartan
Ok to be clear I’m not mad I got hit. That was just a mistake of mine
But getting hit twice is not fair
mossy zinc
It's Hell.
gaunt fiber
Hey, not saying you're mad or anything
Their attack is very long so I'm not shocked
Trying to get away is generally a bad idea because of that
undone tartan
I didn’t even know that could happen
ripe ermine
Yeah they sorta keep chomping, so you can get hit twice. It’s very charming
quartz mantle
Chariots just kinda suck in general you gotta play extra careful around them
Or take Tooth
sand temple
is CP better or worse than JS on hestia?
quartz mantle
Probably better than JS3 but I'd put JS2 on before CP1
mossy zinc
Don't think it matters too much, honestly.
quartz mantle
I'm not personally too familiar with damage thresholds on Hestia but adding extra health can sometimes make it so you don't one shot regular encounter enemies
So even though it's only a 15% increase in enemy health, it can sometimes make you take 100% more time per enemy
and CP makes bosses longer and Hestia does better in general rooms than bosses, at least with my experience
But that's also while running Fiery so idk
sand temple
I am using fiery
quartz mantle
I have like one 45 heat Hestia clear so I'm probably not the most experienced
sand temple
just not sure how bad the CP is is norma rooms
quartz mantle
I guess you can try it
undone tartan
@honest kernel are you using LC4 and stubborn defiance?
quartz mantle
Since adding CP lets you do hell mode as well
so it's basically 2 heat
But you might barely miss damage thresholds and have to 2 shot enemies which takes up a bit of time
sand temple
well I would need both JS1 and CP1 for hell mode since I don't have either at the moment
quartz mantle
Oh I'd for sure do JS1 before CP1
honest kernel
<@456226577798135808> are you using LC4 and stubborn defiance?
Neither
undone tartan
I suggest it
honest kernel
I forget what does stubborn do
sand temple
instead of 3 death defiances in total, you get 1 per room
undone tartan
Stubborn will give you the room to take a lot of damage in normal rooms
I highly suggest it for 32 and up
And it also allows you to get 4 relatively less painful heat with LC4
sand temple
it gives you a way of keeping your health total at a reasonable amount without any healing
undone tartan
Yes. That’s the downside
sand temple
lernie and the furies should be relatively easy anyway
quartz mantle
Stubborn Defiance is used because it gives you a fluid health pool which totals up to more over the course of the run if you're taking a lot of hits during rooms
sand temple
you definitely want to be taking tooth or acorn against the heroes and hades though
quartz mantle
Once you start increasing heat the regular rooms become quite deadly with stuff like FO2, BP2, HL5, extra JS, and whatnot
The main problem with Stubborn Defiance is your boss fights need to be cleaner
or you can just force athena and get bonus DDs
If you lose your SD before picking up an Athena boon and she offers Last Stand or Deathless Stand your DD will be refilled and you'll get your SD back next chamber
giving you a DD on top of your SD
sand temple
divine dash is really good for not dying anyway so you aren't missing much by forcing athena
quartz mantle
Yea I'll usually force Athena in Asphodel for higher heat runs
Until you run AP2 but you don't need to worry about that below 50
honest kernel
Well if stubborn means I can put lasting consequences up and lower routine and approval then that'll probably help a lot tbh
quartz mantle
Yea you don't need to do any Routine Inspection or Approval Process below 40
And you really shouldn't those pacts are ass
AP1 isn't terrible but every tier of RI is just awful
jaunty falcon
I'd do AP1 at 40, maybe
honest kernel
Yeah common boons icky 🤢
quartz mantle
RI1 kills consistency and overall build power, RI2 kills your starting power and overall damage, RI3 is the 60+ heat Zeus Shield zone, and RI4 kills your run
sand temple
if only RI let you choose the pacts to nullify instead of screwing you over from the first rank
quartz mantle
That's kinda free tho
honest kernel
I probably won't be doing any higher than 32 since there isn't really an incentive to me
flat flicker
Vitality and dark regen both do nothing with LC4
honest kernel
Is having dc2 dumb
sand temple
healing option, extra casts and less gold seems reasonable
quartz mantle
depends on the aspect
jaunty falcon
Depends on the weapon, but usually yeah
flat flicker
Is having dc2 dumb
If you’re using Eris rail or fists, it’s fine otherwise yeah it’s bad lol
jaunty falcon
Rama can handle it if you tag every enemy
flat flicker
Or I guess every rail
quartz mantle
Unless you are non-hestia rail, fists, or Rama dc is not really worth
jaunty falcon
Hestia
flat flicker
Maybe Rama special spam
jaunty falcon
Zeus shield
sand temple
DC is dumb on anything with a slow attack speed and almost free on anything with a low damage per hit
quartz mantle
Zeus Shield can handle DC but if you can avoid it that's probably for the best
flat flicker
Excalibur DC is a dead run lol
honest kernel
The rush on Achilles plus zeus attack deals with dc fairly well I thought
quartz mantle
Just run TD2 lol
flat flicker
The rush on Achilles plus zeus attack deals with dc fairly well I thought
If you have flurry jab
quartz mantle
Achilles can deal with it if you're going for Flurry yea
otherwise it's kind of a pain
quartz mantle
Triple jab or Serrated?
honest kernel
Like the dash attack hitting three times
jaunty falcon
That actually makes flurry jab a bit worse
honest kernel
It does?
jaunty falcon
Well, it makes the normal dash strike better
But the dash distance penalty kinda hurts
And the animation takes longer
It's fine on its own
quartz mantle
Yea either one of those are good on their own but together they have anti-synergy
honest kernel
I didn't realize having flurry did anything to the dash attack
jaunty falcon
Yeah if you hold attack while dashing with flurry jab you kind of attack and dash attack at the same time
It's pretty busted
honest kernel
Why is that bad tho?
jaunty falcon
Busted as in good
solar maple
flurry makes the standard attack and the dash attack both 3x as fast
it's kinda good
honest kernel
So I do want flurry and that?
jaunty falcon
No just flurry
solar maple
the problem with serrated is that it slows down the dash strike animation a ton, even with flurry
jaunty falcon
Extending jab or triple jab are decent second hammers, but not necessary at all
solar maple
but on it's own it's still good damage
it's just that flurry is better
and it kinda messes up flurry
honest kernel
the problem with serrated is that it slows down the dash strike animation a ton,...
But it hits three times? Does that not make up for it?
jaunty falcon
Not really