and while it never gets easy I did get more used to it than I thought I would
#h1-high-heat-strategies
unique zephyr
elfin rock
if ur not having fun dont do it
undone tartan
Would you agree that there are definitely correct/much easier pacts for reaching 32? Is it just that 32+ is a lot more loose since you’re already gonna use all of the easy pacts?
unique zephyr
One thing I might suggest is doing runs without benefits package but with FO2 at first just to get used to FO2 without speeder perks
undone tartan
I used to do FO2 all the time but when I took it off (and replaced it with 3 other heat) I started winning way way more
unique zephyr
FO0 for 32 heat is fine, I did it my first 32 win
I did want to go up to 40 though and FO2 was almost necessary for that
I did FO2 more so to train for 40+ heat which it was good for I think
flat flicker
Would you agree that there are definitely correct/much easier pacts for reaching...
Yep. Once you hit the 30s you’re out of easy pacts
Damn it, I know exactly where I messed up too
Should have gone for hermes rapid fire cast
I got hit when throwing casts too much
undone tartan
Yep. Once you hit the 30s you’re out of easy pacts
Ok that’s why I was confused because I’d never heard this attitude toward pacts at the lower heats
amber jetty
You do have some other options at 32+ but forced overtime is one of the easier options at that height
flat flicker
Yeah you’re gonna need to pick something hard and scary to get to 40
unique zephyr
Above 32 you kind of have a "skeleton" of borderline required hard pacts
flat flicker
I found LC4 scary af
unique zephyr
FO2, LC4, TD3
amber jetty
Ap4 just takes boons away
undone tartan
I mean you can go AP4 and EM4 that’s 22 right there
No thank you
flat flicker
Try what I suggested above
unique zephyr
I do not take RI at 40 heat
flat flicker
I do not take RI at 40 heat
I’m trying to show the worst case scenario so that the current scenario isn’t as scary
Turn off your mirror and go fight em4 dad
amber jetty
How hard is the jump from 32 to 40
flat flicker
And there’s nothing wrong with going from 32 to 36
unique zephyr
How hard is the jump from 32 to 40
40 I found I needed much better mechanics than 32
pretty decently harder
flat flicker
One thing I did that helped a lot was do runs with only the heats that scared me (so LC4, FO2, TD3 in my case)
unique zephyr
for TD3 timer was tight at first
unique zephyr
One thing I did that helped a lot was do runs with only the heats that scared me...
I did this too
kind of a "skeleton" practice heats run
amber jetty
Oh ye I need to get used to lc4, I avoid it as much as I can lol
unique zephyr
Stubborn Defiance strats are worth it IMO
you can play more aggressively in rooms and dying to BP2 combinations won't be as painful
flat flicker
Oh ye I need to get used to lc4, I avoid it as much as I can lol
This was me last week. The end result is that you can’t just outlast dad you gotta know when to dodge
amber jetty
The only boss I really die more than once to now is dad, and that's cuz I know I can so I go a lot more aggro on him
Aside from blue head lernie :(
unique zephyr
You need to respect Dad's attacks, yeah
flat flicker
also at around 40 getting athena is pretty huge
amber jetty
Yeah, I'm probably gonna try a 40 heat run with the bestia tomorrow and hope for the best, my last 32 runs all got done first try
amber jetty
Except spear cuz Im bad at spear
unique zephyr
That's quite useful for increasing effective HP, yeah
amber jetty
Oh no I don't expect to win! Gonna die really hard but I'll know which heats hurt me and can work from there
flat flicker
how i picked my 40 heat: max out the pact, then took stuff off until i hit 40, then i went
rather than sit there thinking which sucks more, jury summons or routine inspection or damage control
jaunty falcon
Not RI for sure
amber jetty
Anyway ty hollow knight fan 
and lando, I needa sleep now. Ty for the advice
rotund sparrow
how to dodge hades spin attack
don’t get it
also when hades shoots his skull projectile can you attack it to defend yourself
solemn pulsar
also when hades shoots his skull projectile can you attack it to defend yourself
Yes to the latter
You cannot deflect the spin
You have to I frame it with a dash
Not the dash attack
amber jetty
When you dash without attacking youre invincible
Iframes are invincibility frames
Timing a dash properly lets you avoid the damage from the spin
amber jetty
It's the duration of the dash, so you wanna do it pretty late
Also if you attack while dashing you don't get the invincibility
solemn pulsar
I recommend going through some Tartarus rooms just dashing around without attacking
To get a feel for it
Especially in the fury fight
undone tartan
What’s the strategy for Nemesis? Artemis attack, aphro special, go for heart rend?
flat flicker
Handheld mode in switch should be worth 4 heat
undone tartan
Handheld mode in switch should be worth 4 heat
Lmao yeah that’s painful
flat flicker
I tried a 32 heat and died in tart
waxen relic
What’s the strategy for Nemesis? Artemis attack, aphro special, go for heart ren...
Yes. Merciful End works too. Either Way you really want Double Edge as a Hammer.
undone tartan
Yeah I love Double Edge
I used to say it was the best hammer in the game. It really might be
But that title probably belongs to Charged Shot or Flurry Jab
mossy zinc
I actually don't like Double Edge because it's just straight up more than double damage but there's nothing comparable for Stygius.
It's just so much stronger than all the other Stygius hammers.
But you also have bad DPS without Double Edge.
undone tartan
If I’m going for heart rend, what dash do I want?
mossy zinc
Hunter Dash, Passion Dash, Divine Dash. One of those pretty much.
Tidal Dash isn't the worst pick, either.
But first and foremost you want Deadly Strike and Heartbreak Flourish.
And lots of Strike and Lunge boons from Master Chaos.
undone tartan
Gotcha. Thanks
waxen relic
Try for some Chaos as well.
flat flicker
If you wanna big brain it throw in athena special for deadly reversal, if u get Athena call your crit chance is like 70 p
mossy zinc
What I mean I don't like about Double Edge isn't that I don't like seeing it. I don't like the design of it.
But that's just a general problem with Stygius hammers. So many of them are just bad at high level sword play.
undone tartan
What I mean I don't like about Double Edge isn't that I don't like seeing it. I ...
Yeah I understand that
quartz mantle
You can also go for DR by forcing Athena in Tart for safety since Nem already has pretty good innate damage with 30% crit rate
and then forcing Arty in asphodel
mossy zinc
IMO Weak does more for you for survivability where it matters than Deflect does.
As in, boss fights.
undone tartan
Uhh so I just got chamber 4 chaos… and they offered me 106% dash strike damage with a meaningless downside
mossy zinc
Well, Divine Dash is great for EM Asterius on melee.
waxen relic
That's like forcing the second Payoff before getting the first one. Uno
mossy zinc
Yeah, you want DPS first.
Deadly Reversal DPS is actually kinda underwhelming. Nemesis + Deadly Strike + Hunter's Mark is good enough for crit chance that Deadly Reversal ends up not doing too much.
quartz mantle
That's like forcing the second Payoff before getting the first one. Uno
I mean the idea is that Nem has enough dps built into it to deal with Tart and so you start athena for safety
It worked out for me with 40 but I also had a bonkers build and got natural Aphro in tart
waxen relic
More Damage is safety in Tart and beyond.
I know Bablo did or considered Divine Dash starts in his Streaks, but at the very least i don't believe that's applicable in this case.
quartz mantle
Yea probably
But it worked in my very specific situation so therefore it must be the right thing to do all the time you don't understand 😤
undone tartan
But it worked in my very specific situation so therefore it must be the right th...
Lmao people actually think like this and it drives me insane. Not experienced players, but still
mossy zinc
If you want Deflect, you should just go for Merciful End.
upper stirrup
Is there a resource for hammers on all weapons and aspects? I have a good feel for what the BIS is but maybe a tier list in case I can’t get what I was hoping for?
Sometimes there are what appears no real good option 😢
magic pier
But first and foremost you want Deadly Strike and Heartbreak Flourish.
Since it seems this discussion is abt Nemesis - I was under the belief that Heart Rend applies to any and all crits, and as a result I have tended to favour Heartbreak Strike and Deadly Flourish when I'm build-shaping Nemesis runs. The idea is just that Heartbreak Strike is just way more consistent overall in damage output, 30% off of Nemesis is plenty for crit chance, especially with Hunter's Mark and the bulk of the dmg is coming from the attacks rather than the special. I thought the numbers bore out this idea, but am I wrong about that?
honest kernel
aphro atk works well too ye
honest kernel
Is there a resource for hammers on all weapons and aspects? I have a good feel f...
I'm not aware of one but you can ask questions here. sometimesyou just wont have good options happens a lot with sword for example
jaunty falcon
It’s just that low rarity Aphrodite attack is kinda sad
Still scales well with poms though
mossy zinc
It's not sad. It's just the fact that crit builds really need Chaos Boons, Jerkies, Heart Rend, and Hunter's Mark for DPS; and when you have that, the crit chance from Deadly Strike is gonna do a lot more than the higher % damage you get from Heartbreak Strike.
Deadly Strike scales better with all the other things you want in a crit build.
But Heartbreak Strike is still really good.
magic pier
Cool, thanks you all. Time for more Science!!! then I suppose... Oh no, I have to play more runs of Hades.
mossy zinc
I think 
is a better start for high heat, though.
elfin rock
can you get heart rend with just passion dash and hunter's strike?
mossy zinc
Deadly Strike*, and yes.
elfin rock
sorry
mossy zinc
You get Weak, you get Life Affirmation, you can start Attack, Special, or Dash depending on rarity. You have easy access to Heart Rend, Smoldering Air, etc.
elfin rock
i like her duo boon with ares
it was useful on zag bow
id just inflict weak using attack click special and run away
and just attack whenever i could
i tried EM3 today
and it wasn't as bad as i thought it would be
undone tartan
Is FO0 HL5 better than FO1 HL2 on Arthur?
honest kernel
fo2 arthur is ok yea
upper stirrup
For higher heats is it usually good rule of thumb take the higher rarity if for example your going for an Aphrodite centric build ?
shy plinth
What do you mean
upper stirrup
I mean if I’m going Aphrodite pref for special but rarity is higher on attack and special is common is it better to go for the attack instead ?
Or stick with what I wanted on the special
eternal hare
can't really give you a blanket answer since it varies heavily on aspect
shy plinth
Yeah it's hard to say
upper stirrup
Tru my bad
shy plinth
I usually go for the thing my build needs, not the rarity
If I need artemis attack on arthur and I take the special I still probs die
upper stirrup
That’s how I typically play but i was afraid taking common and just using poms was bad idea
Talking about heats 32+
wintry berry
For high heat my rule of thumb for my builds is getting the 1-2 boons I want on any rarity + 1 decent hammer
shy plinth
Rarity is nice but isn't really going to be the diff between a win or a loss
Missing a core boon to your build is a loss
upper stirrup
Ok so that’s how I have been playing but I was worried I was making a mistake not going for higher rarity and trying to make the build work
unique zephyr
What the boon does is more important than how rare it is
eternal hare
taking an epic boon just because it's epic is meaningless if you're not gonna use it in a way that will actually help you with the run
upper stirrup
Can you make up on rarity by pushing for boons to increase common lvl up to rank 4-6?
unique zephyr
The only time I look at rarity is if all the boons are useless and I am thinking about underworld customs
eternal hare
sure you can pom stuff to improve them but I think the point is that you probably don't need to
shy plinth
^
upper stirrup
Right I appreciate the feedback guys
eternal hare
or rather
you pom stuff because you'd pom it anyway regardless of rarity
don't think of it is as compensating for rarity
unique zephyr
You always pom casts for cast weapons like Beowulf for example
eternal hare
another example with like artemis attack
i'll probably pom it once at most at common, just the same I would if it were epic
I'm not gonna dump 7 poms into my common artemis attack just to make it "feel" epic
unique zephyr
Rarity is more a minor boost than a deal maker or breaker
You aren’t speed running just aiming for a clear
upper stirrup
Pardon the ignorance I’ve only cleared 50ish times but if you get common and attack is 30 but same attack on epic is 60, but each Pom increases attack by 10 can’t you essentially get to lvl 3 in this example and it’s the same as epic would have been? I hope this makes sense 😓
eternal hare
well you get diminishing returns for each pom
it'll be more like 10 from the first pom and then 7 and then 5 or something along those lines
upper stirrup
Ohhh 😲
eternal hare
the point is that you could throw poms into the common boon to make it feel epic
upper stirrup
But it’s not worth…
eternal hare
but you don't need to feel like you need to throw more poms than you normally would if it were epic
upper stirrup
Gotcha 👍
eternal hare
and part of improving as a player in this game is being able to do more with less, especially once you go over 40
upper stirrup
Over 40 is more about not taking dmg?
eternal hare
a lot of things
your ability to avoid taking damage but also your ability to make progress with fewer boons, less health, lower rarity, and so on (depending on which pacts you end up taking)
upper stirrup
Right not looking forward to losing the bottom part of my mirror 😭
eternal hare
you typically don't need to worry about that one until you go for like 50+ 😛
wintry berry
Don't force yourself with ROutine Inspection
upper stirrup
😅 ok
next acorn
You can’t spell cRInge without RI 
plain shuttle
Does Middle Management add extra HP to the mini bosses?
shy plinth
I think just for the boat
Most of them just get extra enemies or abilities
Not 100% on that though
plain shuttle
for the death barge I think it's just extra enemies, most standalone minibosses have new moveset
plain shuttle
wow
solemn pulsar
yeah it's a different enemy that spawns
amber jetty
Any tips for 40 heat sword? Been really struggling with it
Also thought I might switch to something else and come back to sword later
honest kernel
what aspect
amber jetty
I was trying nemesis, often died go either furies or in asphodel
honest kernel
nem was rly hard for me bc you actually need to deal with base sword
poseidon lets you use cast as your main dps and arthur just works better for me bc its big and feels safer
if you wanna use nem get used to the special, dash strike, dash strike combo but dont overdo it or else you'll just die
I got my win with aphro atk and smoldering air bc the i frames helped me out so many times
athena dash is also crucial imo
amber jetty
Ye I did a Poseidon run to try it and reached lernie, I might switch to that
Maybe me lightning phalanx but that's pretty ambitious
honest kernel
just focus on one or the other tbh
phalanx is good enough on its own without lightning
but the duo is pretty sweet
amber jetty
Yeah, didn't get the duo on my run but still reached lernie pretty easily
Only died because of my incredible positioning on the lava constantly
honest kernel
😔
amber jetty
Would crush shot be viable too?
honest kernel
I tried to get lightning phalanx in my run but won without the duo anyway
crush shot is good yea
amber jetty
I tried to get lightning phalanx in my run but won without the duo anyway
Cracked
Also how does parting shot work? I always get it offered on non-cast builds so never tried it
amber jetty
Does it work with fiery?
solemn pulsar
And your cast gets bonus damage if you backstab
amber jetty
Like just 35% backstab I assume?
solemn pulsar
Yeah the number is specifically for if you have 0 other backstab damage
amber jetty
Alright cool
amber jetty
Oh cool
solemn pulsar
And chaos ambush boons, etc
honest kernel
actually seems kinda legit w poseidon sword
amber jetty
Yeah always seemed kind of meh, but ig it's not too bad a pickup on a cast build or something
Ty for the help, gotta get to lunch now
honest kernel
😔
flat flicker
Also how does parting shot work? I always get it offered on non-cast builds so n...
You maybe get 445 obols at your next local neighborhood purging pool
Or however many
Im unsure if the 35 p is global backstab or just cast backstab
solemn pulsar
Im unsure if the 35 p is global backstab or just cast backstab
cast only. the boon description is a bit misleading
it's just to provide some backstab damage for the cast if you dont have any natural through shadow presence
flat flicker
purging pool it is
I’ve also taken it so it wont show up again and I can get my heart rend or smoldering air lol
Does it work w blade rifts
left prism
Blade rifts can backstab
undone tartan
Rama 40 heat, heartbreak strike, chamber 4: Triple shot or Twin shot?
I’m so torn I really don’t know which one to take
steel widget
Personally would take Twin, but I'm also stuck on 40 heat Rama runs 
undone tartan
I’m lightly leaning towards Twin but I really don’t feel confident
steel widget
I'm not good enough to consistently hit 3 shots at the same time, so Twin is more consistent for me
ocean shard
I would probably say twin tbh, granted I haven't used Rama all that often so I don't know how effective it is on it in comparison
eternal hare
if you're not used to triple just take twin
it's much more safe and consistent and you don't need to feel like you have to shotgun everything
undone tartan
I’m pretty decent with triple but I’m not amazing with it so yeah I’ll go with twin
Alright thanks
quartz mantle
Rama 40 heat, heartbreak strike, chamber 4: Triple shot or Twin shot?
Late but triple is gaming and twin is comfy
They’re both good I personally prefer twin for my high heat Rama runs but if I see triple alone I’ll take it
eternal hare
depending on the spawns you get you very well might just lose any possible time save you get from taking triple
if you're unable to safely shotgun and you're hitting things with just the one arrow you're basically down a hammer
which is the case for a lot of elysium enemies
it's theoretically better but practically very well may not be for you
mossy zinc
Rama 40 heat, heartbreak strike, chamber 4: Triple shot or Twin shot?
Yes.
Whichever one you like more.
Doesn't matter too much in my experience. They're both great.
mossy zinc
Triple is better but more work
I don't even think it necessarily is.
flat flicker
lol pretty much always twin over triple
elfin rock
triple can let you shotgun
flat flicker
triple can let you shotgun
It also requires you to be point blank for that to work which with the bow can be dicey
But it’s not a bad choice
autumn ginkgo
imo i prefer twin usuallly, just for extra range and safety
undone tartan
It also requires you to be point blank for that to work which with the bow can b...
No it doesn’t. Point blank helps but it’s definitely not required with triple. Triple on its own is quite a shotgun
undone tartan
Oh ok yeah
flat flicker
That being said point blank and triple sounds super fun
glacial gorge
Underworld customs? Either buy a boon from a god you want. If you get a trial room even better
You'd be surprised how many boons dont really contribute to your build in the end
shy plinth
As long as you keep it in mind in tartarus and save rolls for elysium and styx fountain you'll be fine
If you don't save rolls then you run the risk of a bad fountain but it's usually not too painful to save rolls and/or sell medium hermes boons
celest grail
yeah i usually try to save atleast one roll for each of the midbiomes
and also when youre in the actual biome itself, try to keep in mind which boon you wanna sell
if you dont have any to sell, try to get one
glacial gorge
Anyone have any tips for a 40 heat Hera run? Feels really slow and clunky lol
mossy zinc
Anyone have any tips for a 40 heat Hera run? Feels really slow and clunky lol
Pretty much just this: #h1-discussion message
I also wrote a more general Cast build guide here: #h1-builds-and-combat message
mossy zinc
It's decent. Better if you have Shadow Presence and get more backstab damage elsewhere like from Blinding Flash.
I'd run Fiery Presence, though, and not prioritize Parting Shot.
glacial gorge
Yeah i remember someone saying it allowed Hera specifically to backstab from the front
Any truth to that?
mossy zinc
Phalanx Shot has some funky interactions with Parting Shot.
Dunno if they fixed it in any way. I only run Crush Shot on Hera.
glacial gorge
Oh i see
shy plinth
I'm pretty sure that the phalanx shot basically spawns on top of the enemy when it hits so it clips the backstab hitbox
mossy zinc
Depends on whether you power-shoot or undershoot etc., anyway.
nocturne stag
I'm pretty sure that the phalanx shot basically spawns on top of the enemy when ...
That's good, right?
shy plinth
Yes
solemn pulsar
Phalanx Hera backstabs from the front with parting shot
And frontstabs from the back
It is most noticeable when fighting greatshield, as it is almost impossible to hit them without them blocking it lol
rotund sparrow
As long as you keep it in mind in tartarus and save rolls for elysium and styx f...
what’s a roll
rotund sparrow
If you don't save rolls then you run the risk of a bad fountain but it's usually...
what, I don’t get it lol
jaunty falcon
Have you unlocked the full mirror?
honest kernel
fated persuasion
rotund sparrow
what’s a bad fountain
rotund sparrow
Have you unlocked the full mirror?
yes
flat flicker
what’s a bad fountain
Purging pool in between biomes which you’re required to use if underworld customs is active on the pact
honest kernel
bad fountain means you get a choice between 3 boons that are cores in your build
you always wanna purge something you dont need that badly
nocturne stag
I was gonna say "free healing sounds always good"
honest kernel
also ye its actually called pool
mossy zinc
Pool of Purging, yes. Who says bad fountain? I haven't heard that. 
upper stirrup
Just tried my first 32…ugh those extra abilities on armor was rough. I watched the 0-32 guide anyone have any personal favorite suggestions? It took so long I couldn’t beat the timer…bleh
mossy zinc
Haelian's video guide, you mean?
amber jetty
Just tried my first 32…ugh those extra abilities on armor was rough. I watched t...
It's kinda weapon dependant, there's better and worse pacts for each weapon and 32 does give you some amount of flexibility
flat flicker
Just tried my first 32…ugh those extra abilities on armor was rough. I watched t...
Check the pins, some great info in there. Also some of it will come down to personal comfort. What worked for me and ymmv was doing a bunch of td3 fo2 lc4 runs (14 heat but scary heats to me at least)
Also if you’re unsure of what to put for the pact do the following: set the pact to max heat then start subtracting stuff and the second it says 32 you go
upper stirrup
Totally missed the pins thx!
mossy zinc
You're in good hands if you follow Haelian's advice. Just gonna need to practice more.
upper stirrup
@mossy zinc will do but my thumb is so soar 😓😭
flat flicker
<@311477984886521856> will do but my thumb is so soar 😓😭
yep, that’ll happen. I need a forearm brace for my right arm when I play more than one or two runs now. Being old sucks
upper stirrup
Oh man 😭😭😭
mossy zinc
It's not a matter of age, it's a matter of execution—wasted movement, unnecessary force. Your inputs will be more efficient with more practice and if you try to relax your muscles; don't tense up while you play.
Def take breaks when your hands are hurting, though.
If your wrist hurts, try changing your grip or changing controllers for one with a more natural grip for you.
Your wrist should be in a natural, relaxed position. If you have to bend it to grip your controller, it's gonna put strain on it for the whole time you play, and then it's gonna hurt after awhile.
upper stirrup
@mossy zinc that’s great advice 👍 thank you!
ripe ermine
Come for the hades, stay for the life advice
flat flicker
I should invest in an ergonomic keyboard, I don’t think it’s hades causing it more the work from home in front of a screen all day that’s my downfall
narrow carbon
I’ve noticed all sorts of things in my grip to fix like holding down Attack too forcefully (as if that’s where the power shot gets its power), hovering my index over the bumper (instead of resting it against the bumper)
strange parrot
Need some advice
What should I do to get my 40 heat sword win
Last one I need
I got 3 builds in mind
One is doing either phalanx/lightning shot with poseidon and playing like a total p-word
The other is heart rend and hunter's mark with nemesis
elfin rock
try not to bypass the filter
strange parrot
Or merciful end on nemesis or zag
strange parrot
FO2...
strange parrot
For sword? Really?
shy plinth
For anything
strange parrot
Alright
shy plinth
CP is one of the most punishing pacts in the game
shy plinth
Hades has 17,000 base health
You're giving him 2550 health twice
There is no way that an extra 5000 points of damage is easier than 20% more enemies
strange parrot
Hades has 17,000 base health
Oof, Hades is probably my least concern on high heat tho
shy plinth
Hunter dash is fine
strange parrot
My biggest run-ender is the furies
shy plinth
If you're only having trouble with bosses then JS should be fine
And if you're going sword I wouldn't use DC
strange parrot
If I can not die to the furies, I'm pretty much set unless I get my ass handed to me by a trial of the gods in elysium
shy plinth
I basically never take Elysium trials
strange parrot
They're too tempting sometimes...
shy plinth
I'd do +2 JS or +1 JS +1 CF on that pact over DC or CP
mossy zinc
what's wrong with good ole heart rend on arthur
Quite simply, Excalibur is not a crit aspect.
shy plinth
Can't use boons if you're dead
strange parrot
I'd do +2 JS or +1 JS +1 CF on that pact over DC or CP
Already have CF 1
mossy zinc
I mean it can work, but Heart Rend isn't really ideal on anything but Zag Bow and Nemesis.
mossy zinc
You're better off just going Smoldering Air on Excalibur.
elfin rock
but which call
shy plinth
Aphro I guess
mossy zinc
Heartbreak Strike.
shy plinth
Though I also like going artemis attack on arthur
Nyaanyaa is much better than me though
elfin rock
i don't really see what's wrong with artemis attack
elfin rock
but ill take nyaanyaa's word for it
strange parrot
i don't really see what's wrong with artemis attack
Only 15% crit chance
mossy zinc
m not saying it doesn't work. m saying it's not ideal.
elfin rock
i suppose
strange parrot
Im dogwater on the sword
Especially at high heat
It's the furies that really give me a run for my money
Probably the hardest boss for me
mossy zinc
Yeah, pretty much. You do poor damage 85% of the time pretty much. Heartbreak Strike does consistently high damage. Killing enemies consistently in 1 hit, for example, is better than needing 2 hits 85% of the time and 1 hit 15% of the time.
Weak is also amazing.
elfin rock
weak is especially good with the tier 2 boons
mossy zinc
And especially good with Hallowed Ground.
Smoldering Air is free i-frames (and usually a lot of damage) every 5 seconds.
strange parrot
@mossy zinc What do you reccommend for nemesis heart rend?
elfin rock
i rarely use hallowed ground
strange parrot
As in who's boons go where
strange parrot
i rarely use hallowed ground
Then... what's the point... of playing arthur
strange parrot
the animation is so long that i end up getting hit
You want to start the anim and then dash into the area you want the hallowed ground to be
With any other sword aspect, you can only get 1 dash in, but with arthur you can do 2
shy plinth
Yeah dash special seems fine
mossy zinc
Heartbreak Flourish + Deadly Strike, ideally.
shy plinth
Though the reason to play arthur is because you like big numbers
strange parrot
Heartbreak Flourish + Deadly Strike, ideally.
Passion dash or hunter, or does it not really matter too much
shy plinth
I don't think you end up dash striking all that much if you keep sword combo up
mossy zinc
Hunter Dash.
elfin rock
it makes my monkey brain light up
shy plinth
I don't think that counts as a dash strike
But not sure
The dragging dash sweeps are regular attacks I think...?
mossy zinc
He was asking about Nemesis Heart Rend.
mossy zinc
Well, you just need a lot of Chaos Boons, I guess.
mossy zinc
Attack of course.
mossy zinc
You want to open up Hunter's Mark and Heart Rend asap.
solemn pulsar
Then get a beefy heartbreak strike later
solemn pulsar
Idk if the heat is high I value a consistent build over potential
Yeah it’s marginal
strange parrot
Then get a beefy heartbreak strike later
That was my intention
mossy zinc
Well, an early Deadly Strike gives you early chance for Hunter's Mark and Heart Rend.
And also leaves Dash open for Divine Dash, potentially.
solemn pulsar
True. Lots of options either way
strange parrot
Screw it one roll and it becomes an epic attack and epic special
solemn pulsar
Lmao
strange parrot
Is it worth it tho...
solemn pulsar
Why would you roll that though
mossy zinc
It's not like I'd start with the Adamant Arrowhead in the first place.
strange parrot
Screw it, chaos gate room one I'm doing a cast build
mossy zinc
Sounds like you're replaying the same seed to see what you can get?
strange parrot
Pretty much
mossy zinc
Early Chaos Gate is great for Nemesis.
strange parrot
it is?
strange parrot
What am I looking for, attack/dash-strike?
strange parrot
32% attack
worth it?
no rolls yet
or 36 hp
Hoarding?
i barely play sword
Oooh I do have 75% coins from chaos why am I even asking
solemn pulsar
Super
Hoarding is awful
It adds in flat damage at the end
Not boosted by any other buffs
Not even crit
honest kernel
As long as it wasn't Flurry Slash you should be fine
mossy zinc
32% attack
I'd take it, but HP is decent, too.
strange parrot
I hate FO2 so much
Especially 2 with jury summons
My screen just gets flooded with witches
spamming everywhere
THAT'S IT IM STARTING WITH DIVINE DASH
ME zag sword
red basalt
I hate FO2 so much
I feel you, but at the same time, it’s good training.
I use it as my default 6 starting heat tbh just because I’ve grown accustomed to it.
shy plinth
If you're learning fo2 at 40 heat that's gonna hit pretty hard
But sometimes witches just happen
solemn pulsar
walk into room: hmm armored witches should be a fast chamber 11
death screen appears
hmm
flat flicker
Is there a guide on how to beowulf somewhere
Idk if someone’s written one here or something
solemn pulsar
not really to my knowledge
merry otter
multiple people have like, explained it
solemn pulsar
watching videos can be helpful, being mindful of when they are loading casts, dash striking vs dashing, bull rushing for movement, etc
one important thing to know is that there is a bug where your dashes lose their invulnerability for a few frames when your cast is popping
shy plinth
There are a lot of beo players that are or were active in here and a ton of vods
It is a strange weapon
eternal hare
great weapon
flat flicker
I’ve seen what it can do, then I die to Theseus because of deadline
So I want to learn this power
solemn pulsar
step 1: where is your cast button
eternal hare
rebind that
flat flicker
to?
solemn pulsar
yeah it's a little awkward, a lot of people put it on Left bumper (L on switch)
eternal hare
you want to be able to load while simultaneously dash striking as comfortably as possible and face button cast is not the way you do that imo
I personally use right trigger (ZR on switch)
solemn pulsar
so you can dash and charge a bull rush and cast at the same time
step 2: learn to load casts mid rush
you can hit the cast button while you're zooming and one will still come out
you can actually load them at any point
flat flicker
finally a use case for the paddles
solemn pulsar
even while you're charging it up
solemn pulsar
so take that knowledge, and watch some runs of people using beowulf (without charged shot, stay away from that for the time being)
flat flicker
or maybe a trigger
solemn pulsar
and try to emulate what they do
flat flicker
oh I usually do decent with charged shot
solemn pulsar
oh it usualyl takes some adjustment
flat flicker
Plays like the Hera bow but with a shield
solemn pulsar
true
flat flicker
like if I could get charged shot every time, I would
solemn pulsar
def watch some vids of non-charged shot beo to get a feel for it
in that case
of how you should be moving and whatnot
flat flicker
I feel good about my charged shot beo
shy plinth
Bull rush is your first dash
flat flicker
just feels like need it
shy plinth
Then you get to use other dashes after
solemn pulsar
charged shot is a different asepct tbh
to normal beo
playstyle is different entirely
shy plinth
Yeah it's crush shot hera
flat flicker
Yeah I feel great running charged shot beo
shy plinth
I recommend tylerhk93 vods
flat flicker
wait should I just run Hera lol
shy plinth
Beo is very good and worth learning
eternal hare
beo casts also don't lodge so you're not a sitting duck with only your attack for 5s
shy plinth
It's just so different
flat flicker
will rama be jelly
solemn pulsar
🦆
eternal hare
nah, rama will not be jelly
flat flicker
And should I be forcing mirage shot
eternal hare
like if you can one-shot scattered witches or numbskulls in tartarus with it
flat flicker
Feels like aphro cast hits harder but QOL just better using Poseidon early
shy plinth
Yes you want mirage shot
eternal hare
mirage shot is like the single most important source of scaling for beo if you can get it
shy plinth
Aphro poseidon dio all reasonable choices
eternal hare
absolutely go for it whenever you can
flat flicker
Was thinking festive fog with Stygian soul and charged shot
shy plinth
Dio beo is big damage
flat flicker
Was going really really well til I lost on time 😦
next acorn
Dio Beo :)
shy plinth
Your tartarus is hard but the late game is pretty easy
You can't take cf though
You need so many boons
Usually beo players extol the virtues of Em4 cf0
Beo is probs the best Em4 aspect
next acorn
CF0 cozy
flat flicker
Prob gonna try a 25er with the control remap first, then yeet onto super dad
flat flicker
And hope for charge shot because man, it just feels so good basically calling in an air strike
shy plinth
This room was the beo club for months
It is a diff weapon, you really don't need that hammer
solemn pulsar
oh and the most important thing
mirage shot is bugged
on beowulf
it's a full second cast
not 30% of one
eternal hare
straight up double damage 😄
shy plinth
Absurd
flat flicker
That one I did know
solemn pulsar
literally x2
next acorn
Mirage flare 
flat flicker
But like everything else I didn’t
shy plinth
I recorded a full beo episode with Tyler
flat flicker
Okay, beowulf run added to bedtime YouTube playlist
shy plinth
We talked about it for like an hour
solemn pulsar
could do episode 2 with pseudo and get the same amount of new nonsense probably
eternal hare
LOL
eternal hare
yeah we learned quite a bit more about the aspect in the past few months
kinda gamechanging
shy plinth
It's amazing how much depth it has
flat flicker
I’m around if you wanna do an episode on how I stopped being scared of the jump from 20 heat to 40
flat flicker
yo what?
flat flicker
like won the game in 3 minutes
solemn pulsar
3 in game minutes
flat flicker
even with that
solemn pulsar
like the timer
shy plinth
You get a lot of free rooms
solemn pulsar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1turFVZdag
my best time on this route was 3:26
shy plinth
Rng manipulation combined with high level execution does a lot
eternal hare
and incredibly dedicated
shy plinth
THE vorime
eternal hare
several thousand attempts
solemn pulsar
literally 
flat flicker
Lol he set it up so he’d get lots of fish? I don’t follow but if it means what I think it means it’s hilarious
shy plinth
Vorime had a games done quick run of hades
And it was glorious
It was not set up at all and the rng was... something
next acorn
Is that where the term “Vorime’d” came from
flat flicker
yoooo I just put the cast on back paddle button and whoa
let’s do it
gonna just yeet on into this and hope I get mirage and charge shots. No cf
solemn pulsar
Is that where the term “Vorime’d” came from
Yea
flat flicker
yooooo charging casts while rushing
thanks guys
I appreciate it
Will report back on my victory screen when I get it, going for 30 yay trigger buttons
wait i can make the other one special
never need to move my thumb off attack and dash ever
lets
gooooooo
welp left death defiance on, no stubborn, but you guys just opened my eyes to a whole new world of possibilities
solar maple
Probs could lol
me for the 27th time in the episode: "well actually that's bugged too"
solemn pulsar
welp left death defiance on, no stubborn, but you guys just opened my eyes to a ...
I did a 50 heat DD run with beo hehe
solemn pulsar
me for the 27th time in the episode: "well actually that's bugged too"
Minute 45: ok so now that we’re settled in let’s talk about thunder flare
eternal hare
oh yeah cgull would know a ton about thunder flare in particular lol
solemn pulsar
Minute 74: ok so when you sell your attack boon
Minute 98: blown kiss actually works fine it just isn’t enabled
On passion flare
Minute 5000: there’s a prototype doom flare
eternal hare
minute 9999: that block angle
flat flicker
Ok I have athena attack, Zeus call, aphro dash, Poseidon special, charge shot (can’t help it I love it) - do I force Artemis in asphodel or let it ride?
eternal hare
do you just not have a cast at all
flat flicker
Poseidon cast not special sorry
eternal hare
yea it's worth forcing artemis for it
solar maple
yeah for flood flare mirage is the #1 priority
flat flicker
32 heat with em4, I expect to lose; it’s more about testing the new control setup that I’m not used to it yet but I am so excited lol
I now never need to move my right thumb off dash and attack
solar maple
yeah a lot of people like putting cast on a trigger for beowulf on controller (or at least some sort of shoulder button)
flat flicker
Back paddles, finally found a reason to use em
They suggested above that remap cast button and this will work well, plus can change it to like rail reload when I am not emphasizing cast
flat flicker
Well while I lost and got exactly one Poseidon boon, still got to third health bar on em4, im gonna count that a huge win
jaunty falcon
I'm going to do a TD0 RI3 55 heat run, please convince me not to do so
With Zeus shield
Nevermind, I can do 56 with hellmode
mossy zinc
57 with TD1.
jaunty falcon
But I'm planning on running to a corner and waiting till the special kills everything
I don't even think 36 mins is enough
Maybe it is
honest kernel
😰
devout quiver
seems like an odd plan
narrow carbon
I'm going to do a TD0 RI3 55 heat run, please convince me not to do so
You might convince yourself before leaving Tartarus
flat flicker
tbf, people prob thought the guy boiling sour milk or whatever was really weird, but now we have penicillin
no idea is a 100 percent bad idea
except purging aphro boons apparently
amber jetty
Nah there's one boon aphro has that does like nothing
Empty inside I think it's called
elfin rock
what does it do
left prism
what does it do
extra duration for weak iirc?
left prism
i like it a lot for sweet surrender and my source of weak takes too long to apply
mossy zinc
Same duration as normal on bosses. What makes it good is when Weak isn't your primary source of damage, or for Weak to remain on enemies while they're doing an attack that doesn't allow you reapply it (e.g., EM Asterius's spin), or in large chambers where enemies might move away and then back in, and then normally they're not Weak anymore by the time you get hit maybe.
Things like that.
Also has decent synergy with Curse of Longing.
flat flicker
legendary prerequisite
mossy zinc
That too.
mossy zinc
I'd rather have Broken Resolve at high heat.
flat flicker
wait i kinda want to do a meme run where i get broken resolve to like level 10
then take an em4 hades hit to the face for 5 hp
ill workshop it i spent about four seconds thinking about this
mossy zinc
lol you'll need more than that. But damage reduction and dodge chance are really good.
Especially because you'll have a decent chance at Life Affirmation with Lady Aphrodite in the god pool.
Also a decent shot at Smoldering Air + Second Wind.
Unless you're doing an AP2 pact, of course.
amber jetty
wait i kinda want to do a meme run where i get broken resolve to like level 10
Just checked, sadly unpommable
mossy zinc
If you don't get Second Wind, you'll get Hyper Sprint, Greatest Reflex, Greater Evasion... it's pretty hard to miss all four.
flat flicker
rip in peace lando's goofy idea
amber jetty
rip in peace lando's goofy idea
Not entirely, you can't pom it but Arthur's holy land thing gives like 40% damage resist, and quick recovery makes damage dealt technically even lower
strange parrot
Been playing 32 heat this morning, got really good at it and won most of my runs
But I still hate the high heat stubborn defiance meta
It makes the game about "how little damage you can take and how much you can heal" instead of "how long can you go without taking damage", at least to me
amber jetty
I did all my 32s without lc4 stubborn defiance, you don't need to go that route
strange parrot
I did all my 32s without lc4 stubborn defiance, you don't need to go that route
What pact did you do?
amber jetty
Replaced it with more hard labor
strange parrot
I did that from the beginning and now I can beat it consistently
strange parrot
Replaced it with more hard labor
I have both
strange parrot
40 heat is still a struggle for me on most weapons cuz of FO2
I'm fine on rail and bow tho
I only have sword left to do
amber jetty
I switched it around a lot cuz I was finding what I like and works for me
I mostly replaced it with higher hl, js, DC, and I was on fo2 td3
@strange parrot gonna go back here to not clog that channel
Have you tried doing just normal runs with fo?
Just to get used to it, it becomes pretty natural once you do a couple runs with it
Helps a lot with the timer too
amber jetty
Oh yeah those were hard at first for me too
The louts too, wasn't used to the much lower windup
Without it I'm not sure what I'd change, but part of it is my bias against convenience fee
pseudo kernel
But I still hate the high heat stubborn defiance meta
replace lc4 with em4
shy plinth
Pushing heat basically has to involve adaptation to FO2 at a certain point
strange parrot
replace lc4 with em4
hah
strange parrot
Pushing heat basically has to involve adaptation to FO2 at a certain point
At 40 heat I have to run it
amber jetty
Sword 32 and 40 were much rougher than the other ones for me
Doesn't stunlock as much as fists 
shy plinth
Sword is difficult, nemesis feels unreliable and poseidon is a strange aspect in general
Still found both easier than GY though
strange parrot
Spear was aight
I just flew across the screen and let my blades do the heavy lifting
and for fists I used ME
amber jetty
Fist 32 was much easier than I thought it'd be tbh
ME on it is great
I used Arthur for my 32 and 40 sword, the range and area on it as well as not needing an attack boon as bad as the others let me start divine dash like a chad
strange parrot
What can I replace FO2 with?
mossy zinc
Anything that adds up to 6 Heat.
amber jetty
What can I replace FO2 with?
Ri2
mossy zinc
RI2 + 2 Heat from elsewhere, yeah. That'd work.
amber jetty
RI2 + 2 Heat from elsewhere, yeah. That'd work.
They're on fo1 already, don't need all 6
strange parrot
What about the one that locks mirror upgrades
amber jetty
That's RI
solemn pulsar
FO1 LC0 40 heat pact
it's not fun, but that's the sort of stuff you have to do
if you want RI0 LC0 FO1 EM3 max
timer will be very tight
honestly if you're flexible with builds swapping RI1 for either DC0 or JS1 instead wouldn't be the end of the world
vital grove
You really don't want RI
solemn pulsar
RI1 isn't the end of the world, if you're flexible with builds, as I said
losing DF and rerolls hurts a lot, sure
but if FO2 is really just that bad for you, and FO1 lets you cruise then it's not that bad
but it does highlight how limiting FO1 pacts at 40 heat are
if you have to even glance at RI1
amber jetty
I'd say it's probably easier to learn fo2 and lc4 than do that, that just seems painful
amber jetty
True true
unique zephyr
Why not LC2 over AP1
chtonic vitality still heals 2 HP with LC2
or however you spell that
unique zephyr
That's what I did too
flat flicker
Train yourself to deal with just those
unique zephyr
and keep FO2 on all the time for the next like 5 hours or so of runs
you will die a lot
flat flicker
yep
unique zephyr
and be on low health
flat flicker
Then you’ll be like, whoa I beat 40 heat
unique zephyr
"Dude why is your HP so low"
those 3 pacts really are worth learning for 40 though
40 heat feels like I turn on all the fair pacts to max
before I have to touch AP, RI, etc
shy plinth
The meta has stabilized here because it's worked consistently
So all the other options just feel way more punishing
unique zephyr
Forced Overtime can be gotten used to with practice
shy plinth
There's no easy 40 pact but a lot of the options outside of the more commonly selected ones are really rough
unique zephyr
yeah you can vary it by a few points especially if your weapon can run DC2 but there is a skeleton of least painful pacts
basically everything that can be overcome with mostly skill alone
HS, FO2
TD3 most of the time (sack RNG is a thing if you aren't fast, I did eventually win a 5 sack TD3 on 32 heat though)
honest kernel
after beating gilga on a 4-sack on 40 im convinced that you can play around sack rng on that heat
unique zephyr
impressive!
mossy zinc
The meta is somewhat set for 40 because most players who do high heat aren't really worried about 40 anymore.
Like my own attitude towards 40 Heat if I do it is I'll just take whatever seems fun at the time.
Or maybe if I want to speedrun 40, I'll take whatever seems fastest regardless of how difficult it might be.
shy plinth
after beating gilga on a 4-sack on 40 im convinced that you can play around sack...
Clearly you played around sack rng by picking Gilga
The ultimate aspect
honest kernel
mossy zinc
But beyond that, there's no real reason for me to try and find some easiest 40 Heat pact.
amber jetty
Gilgamesh fastest because more dash = more speed
mossy zinc
It's slower, though.
75% dash distance, 80% dash time, more time between dashes, longer cooldown.
amber jetty
Nope! More dash = more ground covered = time save
Ok off to bed enough being dumb
Cya
honest kernel
bye
mossy zinc
No, you have to do 40 Heat with a dumb build and pact now.
amber jetty
Right now?
mossy zinc
Yeah.
amber jetty
I needa wake up early for a blood test tomorrow
mossy zinc
Until you win.
amber jetty
Can we postpone?
mossy zinc
I guess that blood test is gonna show you lack sleep.
amber jetty
Hey itll do that regardless I've had dark circles under my eyes since middle school
eternal hare
Sleep deprivation bad, go to sleep
mossy zinc
That's the best Gilgamesh build.
amber jetty
Gonna be trying for longer than sword took me
shy plinth
No no you need MISTRAL DASH GILGA
Go for zeus attack demeter dash
Get that cold fusion going
eternal hare
Cold fusion so good
shy plinth
Okay I have to go do this now
flat flicker
Is cold fusion useful lol
gaunt fiber
pretty good against EM3
eternal hare
Who needs legacy anyway
honest kernel
noice
shy plinth
Does this mean you're off the hook now
shy plinth
Well the knockbacks spawn split bolts
I was firing off blizzard shot and then the screen got very colorful and things died
solemn pulsar
Only 3 gods leaving family favorites on the table :0
solemn pulsar
Oof mirage and Rod would have been spicy
shy plinth
Would have been
I will just settle for my sea storm blizzard shot cold fusion splitting bolt l5 cast l5 jolted build and wonder what could have been
There was an artemis boon in the shop but instead I got a 2 sack and had 2 charges of patty left
Didn't need em I guess
quartz mantle
Does mirage work with blizzard shot?
shy plinth
Yes
quartz mantle
gaming
left prism
what is curse of drowning then
quartz mantle
Wiki says otherwise
next acorn
talos is 1/3 of a mirage shot so its fine
flat flicker
yay nitro
speaking of which @mossy zinc in a vacuum do you prioritize dying lament or a legendary prerequisite
shy plinth
Is dying lament that good?
Sweet surrender is unquestionably better
Less sure about resolve or empty
quartz mantle
Dying lament is neat if you have good single target damage and not a lot of aoe damage
Like if you're using bow you'll want the extra aoe damage from dying lament
Sweet Surrender tends to be free damage and Broken Resolve is nice for extra damage resistance
empty inside is w/e
Also Unhealthy Fixation is only kinda good imo
flat flicker
Could be fun to melt every rat in one attack but yeah true sweet surrender is gud
Also I wanted an excuse to use nitro haha
mossy zinc
speaking of which <@311477984886521856> in a vacuum do you prioritize dying lame...
Uno | CF0 addict — Today at 5:49 PM
Dying lament is neat if you have good single target damage and not a lot of aoe damage
Basically that.
devout quiver
empty inside is w/e
it can be nice w/ like, Privileged Status runs and LT builds. It's not much though, yeah.
flat flicker
Can never decide on priv status or fam favorite
I know to use status if starting w a status causing god but I find it something that costs me brain cells lol
quiet mountain
fam fav only favors poor rng or fringe builds
nocturne stag
I'd disagree. In most runs you'll eventually run into 4 gods and Hermes, since that's how the game is designed to work, so that's 5 damage boosts just off the games code already
quiet mountain
2.5% x 4 = 10% priv = 40%
flat flicker
Its 5% at max mirror so 25 global for free
quiet mountain
literally less
amber jetty
It's always activr
quiet mountain
good priv stat builds r too
honest kernel
fam fav is the go to
amber jetty
Priv stat doesn't apply to all builds though
nocturne stag
I was right about a strat for once lol
quiet mountain
how 25% is better tahn 40 counfounds me
flat flicker
Yeah if I start like, aphro attack then definitely
quiet mountain
but idc to argue
honest kernel
theres good builds that dont proc priv consistently and thats ok
amber jetty
Bigger number isn't always better is how, sure it's more but most builds I play don't reach the requirements for it for example
honest kernel
theres also the argument of first hit bonus
since priv always needs 2 hits to be even active
quiet mountain
ghhostee: but idc to argue
honest kernel
I'm not speaking to you directly you dont have to interact
amber jetty
I always forget to change my mirror too 
honest kernel
throwing ideas at lando
flat flicker
Yeah, I’m tryin to squeeze a little more out I guess I’ll run privileged for a few and see how it goes
If I’m starting with a status curse think it makes way more sense to run p stats
amber jetty
Wonder if priv status would make the hangover Chiron 32 I was trying work, it was too slow to keep up with td3
flat flicker
Fam fav requires zero brain cells
honest kernel
like low tolerance stuff is a good one yea
amber jetty
Does doom count as a status effect?
left prism
ye
honest kernel
yea
jaunty falcon
Yes
amber jetty
Cool
honest kernel
cold fusion priv status 