h1-high-heat-strategies

[shy plinth]

Hadesprofessor also does RI2, I think exact same pact as tail

[next acorn]

Especially if I go lightning strike

[shy plinth]

Oh Hadesprof does AP2 instead of DC2

[next acorn]

That does not sounds appealing

Over DC I mean

How bad would EM4 be

With CF2 maybe?

[shy plinth]

EM4 is very difficult

[next acorn]

Well yeah

But none of the remaining things play nice

Is Eris good against it?

It seems like it would be one of the better weps for it but idk

[shy plinth]

I mean eris is good

https://i.imgur.com/LTCcJy2.png

This is Bablo's eris pact

[next acorn]

Would it be better to learn EM4 or just Reset through AP2 + smthn else?

[patent sinew]

I'd say learn EM4. It's not much harder than the regular boss.

The scariest part for me is Cerberus

[next acorn]

Thing is LC4 HL5 requires boss fights to be much cleaner than normal

And FO2

[mossy zinc]

If you're doing 50+, you need to find your own pact.

[next acorn]

Not to mention the additional phase and dealing with TD3

[patent sinew]

Yeah Im used to the extra damage. TD might be a pain tho

[mossy zinc]

EM4 is way harder than the normal fight, what?

[patent sinew]

I guess I'm just good

[next acorn]

I guess it might not feel to bad if your playing Beowulf or another shield

[next acorn]

Why is that?

[mossy zinc]

We're not talking about low heat EM4 here. This is for 50+.

[mossy zinc]

Because at 50+, you need to know what you're doing.

[next acorn]

True

I just thought it would be worth getting the opinion of people that have experience with 50

[mossy zinc]

That's my opinion as somebody who's done 50+.

[next acorn]

I’ll try practicing EM4 with HL5 LC4 BP2 FO2 HS TD3 and see how it is

[mossy zinc]

You need to get your own experience and make your own choices based on what's working for you, not what's working for other people.

[next acorn]

Fair point

[mossy zinc]

And if nothing is working, you need to practice.

How prepared you are for the pact you choose is what's gonna matter in the end.

And also, don't do RI4.

[next acorn]

Na I’m setting the mirror less heat record

RI4 is too scary to even consider though lol

[mossy zinc]

Not at 50. You'd tie it.

[next acorn]

Wow it’s that high?

[mossy zinc]

Yes.

[next acorn]

By who?

[mossy zinc]

Tailesque, of course.

[next acorn]

Does JS effect Hades summons?

[mossy zinc]

No.

[next acorn]

Aight

I’ll practice with the things that effect EM4 and see if I want to use it

[narrow carbon]

Eris tends to require more boons than aspects like Hestia, Rama, Zeus or Beo - so it’s a bit more challenging in that respect

[mossy zinc]

Easiest time would probably be just resetting for Epic Static Discharge in Tartarus.

With AP1 at most.

AP2 resets for that are ridiculous. At that point, just do seeded.

Thunder Signet start, and if you don't get Lightning Strike, look for Drunken Strike second boon, and if you don't get it, reset.

That or Overflowing Cup and do the reverse.

You could try to play out anything, but it's just gonna be a pain. Hestia is better for consistency because you can just start Shackle and have damage right away.

I guess if you get Rocket Bomb first hammer, you could try playing it out? But only if you don't have DC on.

[next acorn]

I got 4 sacked and lost patty but then was able to get an Athena DD then died

I forgot about the spear throw move

Seems to come out real fast too

And 1 hits tooth

[magic pier]

Sounds like an awesome run, though!!

[next acorn]

This was just 37

[magic pier]

Still sounds like an awesome run.

[next acorn]

HL5 LC4 EM4 BP2 FO2 HS TD3

[magic pier]

4 sack EM dad is no joke IMO.

[next acorn]

Yeah got some nice stuff

Only one Hermes although it was epic dashes

[mossy zinc]

Pacts matter more than what number the Heat gauge shows.

[next acorn]

True

[magic pier]

I guess I'm just reacting to the fact that I run EM4 FO2 TD3 BP2 MM LC3 or 4 and some HL standard, and I'm not ready for 40+ yet IMO, and I think getting some good fighting time against EM dad on a 4-sack with that pact is pretty awesome to me. Just where I am at in my Hades life. 🙂

[mossy zinc]

If you can do that pact, you can do 40+.

[magic pier]

Thanks! A little more practice then it's next on my list. In high stress situations I often lose my dash timing and start panic spamming. Epic Reflexes can cover for that but otherwise, splat! And I can't quite internalize longspear tells for some reason.

[mossy zinc]

Just circle them.

[magic pier]

I'll work on that more!

[mossy zinc]

Just try 40 Heat. You don't need to be consistent at 40 Heat to beat 40 Heat.

[next acorn]

Talking to Nyaayaa has attracted Aphrodite

I’ve gotten her in tart thee runs in a row now lol

[narrow carbon]

I don’t try to tell longspears. If a spear is pointing at me, I dash.

[patent sinew]

I eat it

[magic pier]

It's on my to-do next time Spear is glowing. Achilles and I will go on a trip. Zag Bow is all I have left for 32 EM4 FO2, but I'm sure I can do it.

I've mostly been having fun running RI4 Plume to push myself and hone mechanics, and trying and failing the summer challenge.

[narrow carbon]

You’re doing all aspects 32 EM4 FO2?

[magic pier]

Yes.

[patent sinew]

Granny dont play.

[magic pier]

EM4 FO2 BP2 MM TD3 + stuff.

[narrow carbon]

Nice. That’ll help when you want to do 50+!

[feral forum]

man i tried 32 EM4 FO2 it was so annoying adjusting the timing for the double spin

but once u get used to it itll feel weird going back to FO0

[magic pier]

Heh. @gaunt fiber said almost exactly the same thing. 🙂

[magic pier]

Yes, indeed. I started a new file to play co-op with my nephew so I would spoiler anything and FO0 was baffling. I kept dashing WAY too soon. Are you going to swing that club, Thug, or just scratch your back with it?

It actually meant I kept getting hit, which was really humbling.

[narrow carbon]

Following up on my earlier high heat Antos clips, here’s an accidental fast Bombers. Not sure if this would be a consistent strat though. https://imgur.com/a/hxt0heD

[magic pier]

That's awesome!

[narrow carbon]

I’m not sure they always clump like that, but it was satisfying

[magic pier]

It looks satisfying!

[patent sinew]

@magic pier What do you do, pass it off every death?

For Co-op

[magic pier]

Basically, yes.

[mossy zinc]

Bomber spawn patterns are random. I suspect there's a set of patterns, but it's random which pattern spawns.

[magic pier]

Is there a way to predict/control which way bombers/bloodless jump?

[narrow carbon]

Yeah, I think it’s a more opportunistic summon

[magic pier]

I keep thinking I've found a pattern and then it fails.

[mossy zinc]

If it's not MM but the regular miniboss, just dash between them but closer to the one that's closer to the bottom of the screen to hit both every time.

Like just a little bit closer to it, otherwise he'll jump away.

m making it sound more difficult than it is lol.

[magic pier]

Cool!! Thanks. I will try that. That's my most inconsistent speed miniboss room in Tart.

[mossy zinc]

https://i.imgur.com/udtp2Fu.png

Basically, like this?

I guess.

You'll feel it out pretty quickly once you're aware of it.

The red X is where you're tempted to dash to.

But the lower one will always jump away when you do that.

Blue X is basically where you should be.

And the arrow shows the direction you should face for the summon, roughly.

[ivory plank]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/853264338512642049/867980199248150568/unknown.png

if i run this pact, i get the 15 titan blood prophecy

what weapon/build do you think I should run here?

[mossy zinc]

Whatever you want to be honest. Probably not Hestia or Excalibur because you have DC1 on.

But they could handle that, too, at that heat.

FYI, while there's no clearly defined cut-off for what's "high heat", it typically refers to like 32+. For example, 32 Heat is the minimum to get on the high heat leaderboard that's pinned here.

[daring hedge]

wait why would you do RI3 and AP1 at heat that low

[mossy zinc]

That's RI1.

[daring hedge]

kinda strange but if you really want to

OH

lmao oops you're right

[mossy zinc]

He just needs it for the prophecy.

[daring hedge]

i see, nevermind carry on

[mossy zinc]

As I was saying, this is more like an endgame channel when you've already done all the bounties and stuff and are just trying to push Heat higher for the hell of it... (or for Skelly's Prize at 32 Heat).

But yes, just pick whichever aspect you're comfortable with.

#h1-builds-and-combat can help you with builds and stuff for the run if you need help with that or just some ideas for things to try out.

[ivory plank]

oh sorry, won’t post under 32 heat again

as for that run, I think I’ll go Demeter fists with Dio on attack and Artemis on special, should do good I think

[mossy zinc]

If you take Lightning Strike instead and aim for Static Discharge (put poms on that), you should get better DPS.

Deadly Flourish and Heartbreak Flourish are both fine, whichever you see first.

[next acorn]

Got a clear but was carried by clockets. I also need to turn on JS3 to have a more accurate representation of how much time I’ll have

[narrow carbon]

I think MM changes the EM4 adds - that’d also be good to turn on

[mossy zinc]

It doesn't.

[daring hedge]

it doesn't change the summons

[narrow carbon]

Nevermind then 🙂

[next acorn]

How necessary is it for jolted to be epic

[mossy zinc]

Rare should be fine, too.

[daring hedge]

common jolted is pretty sad

and badly wants poms

[next acorn]

So it’s worth refilling rarity on?

[mossy zinc]

I've on idea what refilling rarity is.

[next acorn]

Rerolling

Stupid autocorrect

[mossy zinc]

Maybe once?

Just depends on how much you wanna reset anyway.

You can just reroll hard and reset if it doesn't work out.

[next acorn]

Ok

[daring hedge]

without AP active, i definitely wouldn't bother, since it's not hard to pom it afterwards

and with AP active, good boons are valuable enough that i'd also just take it and go

[mossy zinc]

Optimal Malphon build coming out of Tartarus.

https://i.imgur.com/hgiqTfm.png

Well, don't curse your run, folks. https://i.imgur.com/kpueYOc.png

[honest kernel]

blessed

shes testing you

[mossy zinc]

I already died.

[next acorn]

I got three sacked out of Patty again but I still had two Athena DDs. Lost.

Time wasn’t an issue though I had I think four minutes going into the fight so that’s good

[autumn ginkgo]

what god should i use to start a fist ME build?

Also which hammers would work best?

[jaunty falcon]

Ares, breaching cross and explosive upper

Kinetic launcher is also okay, everything else is meh

[hallow cave]

Long knuckle is kinda cool

[shy plinth]

Rolling knuckle not bad

[next acorn]

I got four sacked out of patty, had no Athena DD (lost it to a slow moving purple arrow in Ely ) and died

I don’t think EM4 is the way

It’s taking a good amount of time to even get there and when I do I lose even if I do have good stuff

[mossy zinc]

But you make it there.

[next acorn]

Prob going to try RI2 and see how that is

[jaunty falcon]

For what heat?

[next acorn]

I was doing 42 HL5 LC4 JS3 (for timer) EM4 BP2 FO2 HS DC2 TD3 to see how high heat EM4 is

Was considering it for 50

[jaunty falcon]

Don't do both EM4 and RI2 at 50

I did RI2 EM3

[next acorn]

I ment RI2 instead

[jaunty falcon]

Also what aspect

[next acorn]

Bc EM4 isn’t going well

Eris

[jaunty falcon]

I also don't think you can realistically avoid AP at 50 either

[next acorn]

I have AP1

I just wasn’t using it there because I just wanted things that effect EM4

+JS to see how it is on a timer that’s more accurate to what would be at 50

[shy plinth]

Yeah I think the big choice is like what combination of AP2 RI2 EM4 do you get to skip

[daring hedge]

yeah honestly once you get to 50+ you kind of have to choose between RI and EM4 as the last "i don't want this" pact

[mossy zinc]

EM4 is hard, but at least you'll have a decent build and a 54% chance of finding a 2-sack.

Chances of finding a decent build with AP2 are...

[next acorn]

I haven't gotten a single two sack doing this

[mossy zinc]

Well.

[daring hedge]

yeah, it's either make everything before dad significantly more doable or make the dad fight significantly more doable at the cost of clawing through the biomes at times

[shy plinth]

"Chances of finding a decent build with AP2 are..."

Fixed it

[mossy zinc]

You're getting the bad RNG out of the way now, so that you get a 2-sack when you do 50.

[next acorn]

true

we all know thats how luck really works

but yeah AP2 is a definate no

[shy plinth]

Honestly the most important skill at the heats you're pushing is emotional fortitude

The game kinda breaks at that level

[next acorn]

because then I would have to add on either CP1 or do CF0 RI1 in addition to AP2

[shy plinth]

LOT of resetting, lot of grinding

[jaunty falcon]

If using hestia you can use AP2, all it needs at high heat is a decent attack

And 4 gods have a decent attack tbh

[shy plinth]

AAAD?

Poseidon kinda too

[jaunty falcon]

Yep

I got offered Poseidon in my run but i sold it

[next acorn]

it do be the bestia

[mossy zinc]

Perseverance is one of the most important skills at high heat.

[daring hedge]

matrix pills image but with "reset in tartarus/elysium" and "reset because superdad killed you" instead

[shy plinth]

Hahaha

I was thinking of the sweating guy with the two buttons

[daring hedge]

lol true

[next acorn]

the illusion of free choice

[mossy zinc]

At least you'll die much later in the run to "where did that come from?" off-screen spear throw RNG instead of chamber 5 bad boons RNG.

[next acorn]

dying to chamber 5 bad boons is less wasted time on the run though

the faster you reset the sooner you can get a good run

[mossy zinc]

But you'll get to play the game.

[next acorn]

game being fun?

[gaunt fiber]

The longer it takes you to reset the best it is for your mental health

imagine seeing elysium every run

[next acorn]

that is also true

[daring hedge]

that's where most of my high heat RI2 runs die so i'm not the biggest fan of seeing elysium sometimes

[jaunty falcon]

Nothing is better than going up to dad, with full health from patty, knowing that he is only EM3 though

[gaunt fiber]

lmao

[hallow cave]

What is elysium

[gaunt fiber]

RI2 ely is scary

[hallow cave]

Haven't heard that name in ages

[next acorn]

Sad Seraph Hours

[jaunty falcon]

Oh thanks, 5 health. It was really worth killing 40 shield guys.

[hallow cave]

I've barely been able to play

Welp

[mossy zinc]

Just like speedrunners!

[hallow cave]

I lowkey wanna play high heat hestia just for the sake of joining the massive trend

All I see is hestia nowadays

[gaunt fiber]

a massive trend, where? 👀

[daring hedge]

it is probably the most popular aspect at 50

[jaunty falcon]

If you want high heat success quickly, I'd recommend speedrunning it first

[daring hedge]

or beo? i dunno anymore

[hallow cave]

I will do other 50 heats after achilles

[shy plinth]

The beo cult has mostly moved on I think

[gaunt fiber]

maybe Beo but people submitting hundreds of runs should not count

[hallow cave]

But it wont feel right if I do any before it

[next acorn]

the only Hestia run that has been submited to the heat leaderboard in the last week was Atticors mirrorless 32

[shy plinth]

Beo and Rama were the hotness for a while

[mossy zinc]

Beowulf, Hestia, and Eris are the most popular high heat aspects.

[shy plinth]

And Eris is Eris

[jaunty falcon]

I submitted one fairly recently

[gaunt fiber]

Hestia is so old potato

now we want spicy stuff

[daring hedge]

ledger was the genesis of high heat rama madness

[jaunty falcon]

Poor hestia

[daring hedge]

i will never forget

[gaunt fiber]

he's not bad with that bow

[shy plinth]

Ah yes it was ledger

[gaunt fiber]

or was

[next acorn]

Well that was responding to "All I see is Hestia nowadays"

[shy plinth]

The rama llama

[hallow cave]

Lol

[daring hedge]

oh i mean including stuff that isn't submitted to the sheet like anyheat streamers attempting 50s

hestia's a common one to try

[hallow cave]

oop

[jaunty falcon]

This is the most common Hestia stuff I've seen recently

I remember when hooly went from 32 heat to 50 heat in a few hours

[next acorn]

thats sounds...unwise

[mossy zinc]

Rama was never as popular as Beowulf or Hestia.

[jaunty falcon]

Hooly also has a 6:4x time on Hestia, so not really lol

[mossy zinc]

There are just some dedicated bow mains.

[shy plinth]

Tail has two modes for every weapon

Hades mode and Rama mode

[hallow cave]

Lol

[shy plinth]

Rama Eris was very fun to watch

[jaunty falcon]

There are only 2 aspects: bad spear and bad bow

[daring hedge]

lol

[jaunty falcon]

Sorry rama

[shy plinth]

Also, don't forget that Lili did a 52 for the barrel roll

No vod but he got there

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/803537080952946693/812459557216976982/hestia.png

Hestia

[jaunty falcon]

Tounis as well knocked one out quickly

[shy plinth]

Has ananke?

[jaunty falcon]

Ananke has done 54

Again on hestia

[shy plinth]

Yep

[daring hedge]

fundamental hades knowledge goes an extremely long way towards making 50 heat doable, and hades speedrunners regardless of heat tend to have a lot of those fundamentals on lock

[shy plinth]

Oh yeah

[daring hedge]

plus hestia is a very consistent aspect around there

[shy plinth]

They know the enemies backwards and forward

I think it was you who said that at a certain point the hades skillset converges between not getting hit and moving quickly with precision

[jaunty falcon]

It's a dream to watch players that can do both

[shy plinth]

Yeah

[jaunty falcon]

Watchin Baj's fury fights are amazing, he just doesn't get hit

[shy plinth]

He's so talented

[mossy zinc]

good Hades speedrunners*

[jaunty falcon]

^^

[daring hedge]

LOL

fair enough, yes

that is what i meant

[jaunty falcon]

I think if you know an aspect well enough to go sub 8, 50 heat shouldn't be too bad

[shy plinth]

Depends on the aspect but yes

[daring hedge]

yeah, some aspects play wildly different between those states

[jaunty falcon]

But Hestia is almost the same, you just dash into enemies less

Reload bonk repeat

[daring hedge]

the simple poetry of hestia

[shy plinth]

The good guns are basically identical

[gaunt fiber]

Guan Yu is the same except you're really happy to survive chamber 7

[shy plinth]

No that's the same

[jaunty falcon]

People that speedrun Guan yu with HC are next level

I'll stick to my 50HP thanks

[shy plinth]

I take arthur to balance out the GY players

[gaunt fiber]

I do it for the damage but yeah it's not that useful

[daring hedge]

RI2 GY gaming with 25 hp out the gate

[shy plinth]

Level 1 GY call build

[daring hedge]

and you run a tank build tm of course

[shy plinth]

You're damn right

Tanks for noticing

[gaunt fiber]

Arthur : "Okay, your attack is a bit clunky I'll give you that. Take these 50hp"

Guan Yu : "Okay, your attack is a bit clunky I'll give you that. Die."

[daring hedge]

yeah but remember when we got arthur style dragging combos on GY post launch

and it changed nothing

[gaunt fiber]

yeah I was hyped

[jaunty falcon]

But it's still just special dash strike lmao

[next acorn]

if it aint broke

[jaunty falcon]

At that point I didn't even understand what changed

[daring hedge]

yeah lol i really wanted the full attack combo to work but

too awkward still

have to pray for purple swift strike if you really want to go that route

[shy plinth]

We did get Achilles input buffering

That was nice

[waxen relic]

After a quick tryout of 200% bonus Damage on top of it

[shy plinth]

That was a fun week

[flat flicker]

is there a video someone can recommend for some high heat builds - just got a tartarus splitting bolt with shield, then lost all defiances to meg/tight deadline...oof

[mossy zinc]

The pinned leaderboard has video links for all runs.

[viral estuary]

what's a good combo for getting skelly's first prize?

[waxen relic]

Look into the Pins for starters

[mossy zinc]

For 8 Heat, anything you like, really.

[fiery rose]

8 heat is ez

[autumn ginkgo]

I would say em2, td2, 1 rank jury 1 rank Hard Labour

It doesent really matter though

[autumn ginkgo]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/861453601263321099/868493742863171604/unknown.png Which to sell? GY 32

[honest kernel]

footing

[heady olive]

yea u dont hv hs

[autumn ginkgo]

ok

im gonna be honest, i thought i had hs on when i took it

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/861453601263321099/868495531205333022/unknown.png

Is winged serpent good?

[jaunty falcon]

Nah

[heady olive]

they r all kinda sucky

[gaunt fiber]

massive is good

but you don't have an attack

[heady olive]

what hammer is good for gy attack other than serrated tip

[jaunty falcon]

None lmao

[autumn ginkgo]

going into styx with 2 athena dds

[narrow carbon]

I’m starting on Guan Yu at 40 Heat (last aspect). I’m dying at Heroes; timer is okay. My thinking/questions:
Mirror: Fiery, Stygian (or Infernal if I should try for Lightning Phalanx?), Pride (or Legacy if I should aim for a specific Duo/Legendary?)
Keepsakes: Aphro (or Artemis?) for Special. Athena for DDs, Acorn x2
Mechanics: Spam Special from distance. Attack/Dash-strike to clean up low-health foes. Never Spin (or should I?).
Hammer: Charged Skewer or reset. 2nd hammer not important? (Breaching Skewer if offered)
Boons: Dash: Divine (especially for projectiles). Call: Zeus/Dio (or Athena/Poseidon for safety?) Cast: Not important? For non-core boons, not sure if there’s a specific direction to take, or just take good stuff (Sweet Surrender, etc)
Doors: Build-related > Heart > Pom?
(Sorry for long message!)

[gaunt fiber]

Fiery presence to one shot stuff in Tartarus.
Stygian or Infernal, as you like. Infernal can be more power early game but you should not need it at 40.

Artemis > Athena > Acorn > Acorn. Artemis is better for spin builds and also for charged skewer. Aphrodite is ok as she unlocks some duos and offers weak. Falls off in Elysium a bit.

Mechanics : Special double dash strike is the main rotation. Include cast when needed (elite enemies, distant foe etc.) You are a melee aspect until you get charged skewer.

I would argue that you remain melee for rooms but lean to range mode for bosses.

You mentioned the best hammer. You don't need it to win at 40 heat. Best with it is Breaching skewer. I'd take quick spin too if I have a good attack.

Divine dash is a crutch but you could start Athena, it's good on the special and you could go ME.

Best call is probably Poseidon.

Non core : ravenous will, dying lament are nice for more ehp. Other than that, the most power you'll get will be hunter's mark.

Cast : not important, you can pick Phalanx shot to hide behind it. Very good.

Take health on your way to the surface. You don't really need poms when you have your stuff.

Even longer than you

Pride or legacy, does not really matter. Pride should be a bit better for Hermes, doom, Zeus If you go for them

Oh, about the spin : between waves or some bosses phases. If quick spin, you'll get used to the timing

[narrow carbon]

Thank you, thank you

I’ll try mixing the spin into that rotation

[gaunt fiber]

My pleasure. If you have a vod you want me to study don't hesitate

[narrow carbon]

Cool, I’ll record one with the new tips later

[gaunt fiber]

If you need to heal, you'll be probably better off not using it. Desperation leads to greedy moves

At first spin is a move you use with caution, you'll get better with it (if you plan to learn the aspect)

[narrow carbon]

Starting with between waves is good advice - my experience within waves was to lose about as much as I had gained (or worse)

Oh, and here’s the pact. Not sure if Hell Mode is more difficult. https://imgur.com/a/Hf9D6By

[gaunt fiber]

Hell mode will be more difficult yeah.
Pact seems fine nonetheless. You could avoid HS, quite punishing for GY especially vs Dad

[autumn ginkgo]

How did you create that pact? Is that somesort of website?

[gaunt fiber]

There's a website to randomize/make pacts yeah

I'll send it to you when I'll be home if needed

[daring hedge]

it's this https://hadesheat.onrender.com/

[autumn ginkgo]

Thanks!

[bright mango]

U should watch his 50

It was pretty pog

[next acorn]

Starting with just 50 health is rough

I just keep getting one shot

[narrow carbon]

Got to Hades part 2! Need to avoid more spins (and/or get an Athena DD). Boons were good (epic RD). Am I right in thinking missing Patty is not as big a deal with GY? I might try higher heat with GY after, so any review is appreciated (ping off as I think it's late for you) https://youtu.be/Tzzg34hw8OQ (2-min pause in Elysium lobby, 1-min pause after Hades pt.1) (hopefully HD is processed soon)

[next acorn]

Made it out of tart! Died soon in aspho but still nice progress

[narrow carbon]

What are you working on, @next acorn ?

[mossy zinc]

If you got to Hades that run, only the Hades fight matters in the replay, really. Everything else, you're doing well enough already to make it to Hades, you just gotta sharpen it up to be more consistent at it.

32:39, you're dashing away from the shockwave and towards Hades instead of towards the shockwave and away from Hades.

And don't ignore the skulls, just one-shot them with Charged Skewer.

Way less trouble in the fight that way.

You already lost 2 Acorn charges in phase 1 part 1 just by ignoring the skull and then having to deal with the shockwave, and messing up how you dealt with it, too.

[narrow carbon]

The way to deal with it being to dash over it / in whichever direction isn’t Hades?

[mossy zinc]

Right. When you're close, he'll do all of his three attacks in phase 1 part 1 right where he stands.

If you're far away, he'll do the skull cast from where he stands, but for the spin and the thrust, he will run towards you first.

So it's way easier to be prepared for what's coming.

If he's raising his bident, you know immediately that he's shooting a skull.

If he's running towards you, you know immediately that he's going for a thrust or a spin.

And then you can either just keep your distance until he's forced to whiff his thrust or go for the spin, or you can simply strafe him because his thrust can never hit you if you do that, and then you only need to dash if you see the spin.

[narrow carbon]

Ah, I didn’t know that about his standing / moving! When close, it’s hard to tell the difference between a skull or thrust

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, exactly.

[narrow carbon]

Does strafing just mean not being in front of him?

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, like circle him, basically.

Except it's a bit more like..

If he moves like this

—

you move like this

|

[narrow carbon]

Gotcha. I’ll try to make those changes!

[mossy zinc]

There are basically three situations for the skulls if you have Charged Skewer:

(1) very few skulls: clear away all the skulls,
(2) a lot of skulls: try to clear away skulls on side of the arena and then go there, so you're safe from the shockwaves and can focus on using your dashes only for Hades (prevents being forced into using a dash for the shockwave and then being hit by Hades on recovery), and
(3) your burst damage is very high (Smoldering Air, etc.): just focus down Hades, maybe in close proximity to the skulls so you'll just destroy them with Dash-Strikes that are meant for Hades.

Phase 1 parts 1 and 2, he'll only do a single skull cast. So you should take down all of them there.

Phase 1 part 3 and onward, he gets the skull > skull > thrust combo. So there will be a lot more skulls for you to deal with.

[narrow carbon]

Good info! I need to work on skull management - leads me to bad positioning

[next acorn]

Eris 50

[mossy zinc]

And then at 32:47 when he summons his first summons...

https://i.imgur.com/VlTSBNq.png

I would have immediately charged a Special in that blue line to hit the first summon there and kill the skull.

And then dash along the red line towards that spot.

And what that does is first of all it puts you on the other side of the pillar from Hades.

https://i.imgur.com/7UHkrZy.png

Which means (1) he can't attack you immediately, and (2) he'll either throw a skull against the pillar or circle around the pillar to try to get to you for a thrust or spin, which is even better for you than being far away from him in the open because the skull can't hit you at all.

[narrow carbon]

Mmm. I think maybe I went in the other direction to focus on the adds. But I guess I can let them come to me

[mossy zinc]

And also it means that you get to fight Hades in this red area while the summons are over there in the green area, and they're pretty dumb at getting around the rock. And you also have all of that horizontal view to see exactly what they're doing.

https://imgur.com/a/KsZgSVZ

And then lastly, this yellow one has a looooong way to become any trouble. https://imgur.com/a/x6ipcHB

You didn't even know what the adds were gonna be when you dashed into them, and you didn't know what Hades was gonna do next.

[narrow carbon]

Aha, better to wait and see and bait that first attack from safety

[mossy zinc]

You put yourself into the most dangerous position right between the adds; and even worse, at 32:50 right when his invulernability was wearing off... you dashed so far away from Hades that he was off-screen.

Brightswords can be a little annoying, but they don't apply Boiling Blood, and they don't hit for 80 in one swing.

When Hades is not invisible, your #1 priority is keeping an eye on him or getting him somewhere where you can take an eye off him for a moment like on the other side of that pillar.

You can clean adds when Hades is invisible.

[narrow carbon]

I should treat skulls the way I do adds and vice versa : )

[mossy zinc]

Imagine that yellow one had been a Chariot, and you dashed right between both summons out in the open. With Guan Yu and no Acorn charges? That's death.

[narrow carbon]

It’s too bad I can’t savestate on Switch, but I’ll try to apply all this : )

[mossy zinc]

As far as I know, @north dove has never used a practice save for the Hades fight and does the best EM4 fights out of anyone.

[nocturne stag]

I've so far found em Theseus to be easier to deal with than normal one

I find the guns easier to not get accidentally hit by than the spear, and so he gets less chance to hit me with spear =good

[mossy zinc]

Try both fights with FO2 and only one dash.

[nocturne stag]

The pins recommend all these weapons but I've been using Gilgamesh for my runs lol

[mossy zinc]

It's important to keep in mind that pin is one person's opinion. Although, he did listen to some feedback and made some changes to it.

What Heat are you doing with Gilgamesh?

[nocturne stag]

Atm 8 which is not high heat at all but it IS the highest heat I've gotten. It'd be much higher if I hadn't gotten side tracked pursuing prophecies on other weapons though

[mossy zinc]

Oh nice.

[hallow cave]

The problem w em3 usually starts when you turn on fo2

And asterius becomes a racing car

[mossy zinc]

Well, there's both a lot of horizontal and a lot of vertical progression in Hades. So you don't get punished for getting side-tracked and doing other stuff.

[hallow cave]

At heat 8 you can td2 or 3 and em2 and then anything else u wish from the easier 1 heat pacts

[mossy zinc]

But you can't do EM3 RI4 at 8 Heat, so are you really doing EM3?

[hallow cave]

You can use the pinned chart if you don't know what 1 heat pacts are good

[nocturne stag]

The mini dashes seem to have less distance to them. Shocking I know. But tbh it works out much better for me because with normal dashes I tunnel vision too hard and get stuck dashing into a wall in the magma

[hallow cave]

Does gilgamesh have reduced dash?

Never used it before

[mossy zinc]

Yeah.

[hallow cave]

oof

Fists with less dash sounds punishing

[honest kernel]

it is

but if you ruse ruthless you make up for it somewhat

[mossy zinc]

@solemn pulsar might correct me if he knows better, but m very sure it's -25% dash distance.. same as Serrated Point.

[nocturne stag]

Idk the 3 mini dashes work out grand for me most of the time ignore that I can't actually trigger maimed 98% of the time

[mossy zinc]

Your dash also recovers faster, buuuut the cooldown between dashes is longer.

Gilgamesh falls behind the more optimal you play, pretty much.

[nocturne stag]

Makes sense why I like it then. I'm like the opposite of optimal

[hallow cave]

I replace the mobility of my dashes w the spear rush but on hades spear its a whole other story

Ima try do 40 heat hades this week

[mossy zinc]

I wouldn't worry about aspect tier lists and stuff if you're not playing at a level where you don't care for other people's tier lists anyway because you know the aspects yourself already.

Like know them at a very deep level.

If that makes sense.

[nocturne stag]

When I use Gilgamesh I don't go for greater reflex because I tend to find the effects of the other mirror are more useful than +1 mini dash

[mossy zinc]

Ruthless tends to work out better, yeah, but the difference isn't that big tbh.

[nocturne stag]

I DO however like to pick up the dash Hermes boost because +3 mini dash good

[mossy zinc]

Greatest Reflex has a lot less value on Gilgamesh than otherwise, though.

[hallow cave]

Wow if only I could get a non common GR

[mossy zinc]

You should watch my 52 Heat and my 51 Heat for strats for how to get +3 dashes first attempt and third attempt, respectively.

The secret is to get them first try or third try.

If you get them on your second run, it will probably just be common, so you did it wrong.

[hallow cave]

I don't have wifi good enough to watch stuff this week

[mossy zinc]

Will I ever do a 50+ Heat win without lucking into +3 dashes immediately on my first or third attempt?

Who knows.

[hallow cave]

GF is a convenience

I find hyper more convenient

W flurry

[mossy zinc]

GF?

[hallow cave]

Gr*

Finger slip

[nocturne stag]

For most people, yes. For me, on normal weapons it mostly leads to me dashing into magma and taking waaaaaaay more damage than otherwise or other such trap situations because I tunnel vision REALLY hard

[hallow cave]

Since I haven't been using serrated I haven't been crying for GR

Flurry benefits off more bc of the special cast time sturdy benefits

Less punishing

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, if I talk in this channel, optimal play is pretty much always implied.

If you dash into magma, that's on you.

[nocturne stag]

Indeed

[hallow cave]

At that point you shouldn't look for solutions that will cushion u walking into magma but actively focus on avoiding it consciously till it is muscle memory IMO

[mossy zinc]

One important thing to keep in mind is that just because you have more dashes doesn't mean you have to constantly use them.

[hallow cave]

^^

[shy plinth]

The biggest skill that super high heat players have mastered that even moderate heat pushers often miss is precision

Not punching air, not spamming dash

[mossy zinc]

If you have 3 dashes instead of two, it means you can use 1-2 to navigate and can still have the others when you need them for i-frames.

[shy plinth]

But using inputs when they need to and not because of muscle memory

And being imprecise has ripple effects to every aspect of the game

[nocturne stag]

Basically for me anytime I play w game that isn't Pokemon, half my build is "how do I best limit the self sabotage caused by my general inability to do well" hdjgfhghfg. And yeah basically all I do is spam dash and attack, maybe mix in some casts and what not. I am fully capable of dodging everything Hades does (maybe not extreme hades I have no idea) I just forget to do it tbh djfj

[shy plinth]

You have to play intentionally and with focus for the purposes of skill mastery

And not every run has to be for that purpose

[hallow cave]

[nocturne stag]

My approach for Hades so far has been "I'm gonna have a good time"

[shy plinth]

But I'd recommend really dialing in to the idea of punching when you're gonna hit something and dashing when you need to dodge something

Oh well sure

And being more good is more fun

[nocturne stag]

I just find this high heat stuff really interesting

[shy plinth]

But yeah do a goofy build and mess around if you want

[hallow cave]

Not for everyone

[shy plinth]

Just a question of what your goals are

[hallow cave]

I know a lot of people that get mad when you mention improving at a game

[shy plinth]

Like if your goal is to have a good time and you don't care about the heat number by all means

[nocturne stag]

I'll probably focus more on optimization when I get to heat that I can't handle

[shy plinth]

Yeah don't make the game into work

[mossy zinc]

Well, they'd be in the wrong channel tbh.

[shy plinth]

But if you keep in mind that intentional movement helps smooth out your runs and get faster clears, you might find yourself feelin pretty good after

I've really enjoyed those "level up" moments

[nocturne stag]

Honestly I'd probably majorly decrease my run time if I tunnel visioned on zag and not the target dkdjd

[hallow cave]

I mean scourge already is inherently in the wrong channel as high heat is above 32 no?

[shy plinth]

If you're playing gilga zag and the target should be in the same place :)

[nocturne stag]

I HAVE gotten much better at avoiding most traps though

[shy plinth]

Depends on the purpose of hanging out here

We're here to help and a lot of folks just like to know what's up with high heat

[nocturne stag]

Yeah, but I tunnel hard enough I don't even notice I've dashed away on accident tbh gdkg

[shy plinth]

That's quite common

[nocturne stag]

Yeah I just find it really interesting

[shy plinth]

Punching air happens a lot for so many players, myself included

The best players don't waste the inputs

Really cool to see

[nocturne stag]

I also like that my instincts were good enough that I figured out a number of things people seem to be using were really good before I even knew of this discord

[shy plinth]

Oh word, like what

[mossy zinc]

"Precision" is ironically a bit vague.

There's strategy, and there's execution of your strategy.

[nocturne stag]

Like I noticed drunken strike and divine strike seemed overall really good. In fact that Athena and Dio had really good boons in general

[mossy zinc]

You should focus on strategy first, and then the execution will improve with practice.

[shy plinth]

Yeah I mostly mean precision of movement

[nocturne stag]

And then I join and many people seem to be using them in high level stuff and I got a serotonin

[shy plinth]

Athena is part of a lot of powerful things

[mossy zinc]

But strategy doesn't improve without critically thinking about what you're doing and maybe discussing strategies and stuff for different enemies.

[shy plinth]

Yeah I mean you have to know what you're dashing away from

[mossy zinc]

Or watching other players specifically for how they deal with certain situations.

[nocturne stag]

Like Athens

[shy plinth]

Tail videos

Just watch all the tail videos

Every time I tried to emulate him I got better

[mossy zinc]

Or seeing them do something you didn't know about and then actually looking into it.

[nocturne stag]

Advice: don't just Google 'tail videos"

I can't imagine that would go well

[mossy zinc]

Wdym? Cat tail videos are cute.

[shy plinth]

Lol yes they are

I should clarify, the user tailesque

[nocturne stag]

insert joke about furries here

[shy plinth]

Have you looked at the high heat leaderboard yet

[nocturne stag]

No

[shy plinth]

Check the pins

Vods for days in there

Don't start with retrash videos, they will break your brain

[nocturne stag]

I will at a later time. It's 2:30 am lol. Goodnight and thanks for the info everyone <3

[shy plinth]

Oh BTW @mossy zinc we got three cn submissions

Night :)

[mossy zinc]

Nice.

[shy plinth]

Not just ykc either

[mossy zinc]

Good night or day to you!

[shy plinth]

I think bdz sent in two

[mossy zinc]

Adding on to what I was saying: if you just play a lot without critically reviewing what you're doing and making strategies, you can develop some instincts and learn some things intuitively, but you'll also just reinforce bad tactics.

[shy plinth]

There's a poker coach out there named Jared Tendler who is a brilliant man and he has a bunch of very clear concepts

Being "on your A game" is a common American idiom but he breaks it down - your A game which is your best play, your B game which is your average play, and your C game which is your worst play

And he says that if you're not working on your A game, you're working on your C game

That resonated with me

[patent sinew]

Interesting

[reef furnace]

I'm gonna pretend I didn't see that

[shy plinth]

Uh

[waxen relic]

seems misinterpretable

like "if you aren't improving your best your it'll be C-game, don't even bother" Which i don't think is the meaning.

[shy plinth]

Oh, sure

He explains it much more than I just did

But basically it's kinda what Nyaanyaa said, if you practice without intention then you're just building your bad habits up

[devout quiver]

implying i have any habits that arent bad

[waxen relic]

you surely do

[mossy zinc]

I deliberately said bad tactics rather than bad habits.

[hallow cave]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/868809757954301992/unknown.png

this aspect needs no thinking

[mossy zinc]

Yup.

[subtle cypress]

where does it say aspect

[amber jetty]

Shows up in the boon list, they used Beowulf

[subtle cypress]

so you just need to know the icons

[jaunty falcon]

That will come with time

[feral forum]

Man for some reason i cant do 32 heat beo, its so clunky for some reason

[jaunty falcon]

Are you dash striking into your bull rushes, or standing striking into them?

[mossy zinc]

Just practice more.

You can watch some Beowulf runs from the leaderboard to get an idea for what to do.

[hallow cave]

Couple days ago I was messing around with stygian w trippy shot

Almost beat hades but dps was lackin so died to time

Tried floodshot and did 40 first try

Beo works if you know what build you're going for

And with the right hammers

And also cf0 is great

[hallow cave]

Decrease JS and CP

Thats usually the reason why I'd suppose

Beo could feel really sow when enemies are far apart

Slow*

[feral forum]

hmm i should do that more

i usually just stand strike thwem

[quartz mantle]

Dash strikes are way more fluid

But yea watch some Beo runs in the spreadsheet if you want to see optimal gameplay

[feral forum]

aight

ima do that

[solemn pulsar]

-25% dash distance is correct, but the dashes are "faster" time wise, taking 80% of the time to cover 75% of the distance. Also take 20% longer to recover your dashes once out, and increases the gap between dashes

[mossy zinc]

Thanks for the details!

but the dashes are "faster" time wise, taking 80% of the time to cover 75% of the distance
Are the i-frames also down to 80%, then?

[solemn pulsar]

yeah everything about the dash is scaled to 80% time

[mossy zinc]

[solemn pulsar]

hmm except the cooldown (gap between dashes) is increased from .05 to .17

which seems drastic

with frame perfect inputs gilgamesh dashes are actually 0.08 seconds slower than regular ones

and cover less ground

sgg why hate claws

[honest kernel]

amazing weapon

[mossy zinc]

@solemn pulsar another thing, m very sure that JS gives you less gold from enemies in proportion to your level of JS, so you end up with about the same money whether you run JS0 or JS3. Have you happened to look into that? I feel like I saw something like that in a script before, in fact, but I wouldn't know where to look for it now.

[solemn pulsar]

Gold is random drops from enemies, capped on an amount defined by chamber depth, so no effect from JS

[mossy zinc]

Alright. So it's not reduced gold drops but simply capped regardless.

Hmm. But that means you should be more likely to hit the cap in each chamber with JS?

[solemn pulsar]

Probably

[waxen relic]

How high are the caps anyway?

[mossy zinc]

3 less than you need for that boon.

[waxen relic]

hmm if i open a trove am i still affected by the cap lol

[solemn pulsar]

Nah troves are separate lol

The cap is just the gold you get per chamber nothing to di@with your sim

*sum

[honest kernel]

yeah I never felt like js gave me much more

[waxen relic]

i know that it's a cap of obols looted every room.

guess it resets with the reward pickup then

[solemn pulsar]

It’s just coin spawns from enemy drops

Pots don’t affect it either

[bronze sable]

pain and suffering

[waxen relic]

What i meant with troves wasn't their reward.

But the additional foes you could loot from.

[solemn pulsar]

Oh do they drop gold? Never noticed

Interesting

[waxen relic]

Not sure tbh

[solemn pulsar]

Idk how they’d play into it, would have to check later. No code access rn

[waxen relic]

but why wouldn't they?

[solemn pulsar]

Just hadn’t thought about it

[mossy zinc]

I think they did in Early Access but don't anymore.

[hallow cave]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/592573052429271041/868912265175379998/unknown.png

furthest I've gone today

not enough health

[mossy zinc]

Not enough .

[pseudo kernel]

F

[mossy zinc]

Get more HP with Life Affirmation.

[hallow cave]

monumentales bruh

[mossy zinc]

Seriously though, Life Affirmation + Weak can still carry runs at 50 Heat.

It's like getting 1.8~2.0x as much from any HP rewards you pick up.

Not exactly because not every enemy that hits you will be Weak, but close enough.

[hallow cave]

we love it when archers get the aimbot perk

:)

[mossy zinc]

Speaking of archers, how many arrows do Superelite Strongbows shoot?

[waxen relic]

All of them.

idk maybe around 10?

[mossy zinc]

Would help to know that in some situations.

[mossy zinc]

@narrow carbon congratulations!

Are you submitting any of your runs to the leaderboard?

[narrow carbon]

Thank you @mossy zinc for the Hades fight review! The fight was by no means perfect, but I did much better skull management

[mossy zinc]

Nice!

m glad to hear it. :D

[narrow carbon]

I only have two recorded seeded clears, but my plan is to work on 50 Heat and submit those

[daring hedge]

8 i believe

[mossy zinc]

Did you ever count?

I feel like it's always 1-2 more than I think it is lol.

[daring hedge]

oh i just watched a clip of mine with one and it's 9

[mossy zinc]

Ha.

He got you, too.

1 more than you thought it was.

Thanks for checking!

atticor is the only one who survived.

We should just not tell anyone, and then do a poll.

Let's see who survives.

[gaunt fiber]

Congrats on the Guan Yu clear :) @narrow carbon

[waxen relic]

btw i tried counting Asterius' Spin Hits rn and i think it's 15 hits

[narrow carbon]

Thank you! The build and strategy tips helped

[gaunt fiber]

It's all you and the might of Guan Yu

[hallow cave]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/868956746062901248/unknown.png

nemmy pog

[dusky creek]

I've been getting pretty consistent wins using 20 heat, I think it's time I bring it up to 25. If I'm comfortable enough with that, I'll try 32

[mossy zinc]

You can also just do 32 now.

[dusky creek]

I'm scared to lose my win streak

[autumn ginkgo]

Eventually doing 32 you'll probably lose your winstreak just from bad luck

[mossy zinc]

The way I like to look at it, if there's no risk of me losing the run, I don't play on heat high enough to learn and improve much as a player.

But I can see where you're coming from.

Definitely do what you think is the most fun for you.

[dusky creek]

Whats most fun for me is playing high heat games, but its also quite scary because I've had a few extremely close runs

I was playing on 18 heat the other day and was down to 100 health at hades with no revives. I should not have won that game

[mossy zinc]

100 HP is plenty for the fight. Especially if you have the Acorn.

[autumn ginkgo]

who needs hp

[dusky creek]

I didn't have acorn. I feel comfortable fighting hades if I have at least 250 health. Unless im using the bow or gun, then a little less is fine

[mossy zinc]

I only need 200 HP to be perfectly comfortable with HL5 FO2 CP2.

[dusky creek]

I'm not familiar with those acronyms

[mossy zinc]

Although lately I've been playing the fight sloppy a lot because I just don't take him very serious lol. Gotta work on that.

They're just initialisms for the pacts.

HL = Hard Labor

Et cetera.

[dusky creek]

Yeah I just can't recall the names for them

[mossy zinc]

There's a list in the pins.

[dusky creek]

Oo

[mossy zinc]

FO = Forced Overtime
CP = Calisthenics Program

[dusky creek]

EM asterius with FO is an absolute pain. His charges and slam attacks always get me

I tend to not use FO on him unless I'm playing a ranged weapon

[mossy zinc]

Yeah I don't recommend combining EM3 with FO until somewhere after 32 Heat.

Like not even at 32 Heat yet.

If you do want to use EM3 FO2, you probably wanna go with HL0.

EM3 FO2 with Malphon is a particular kind of torture.

[dusky creek]

I don't even wanna imagine how hard that is

My go to weapons are usually aspect of Chiron and author. I don't typically play with FO if I'm using arthur

[mossy zinc]

Ah yes, the Aspect of Author.

[dusky creek]

Shhhh

[next acorn]

the almighty pen

[mossy zinc]

From the Lady of the Library.

[next acorn]

I've been having trouble on Fury fights, thoughts on using Antos?

[mossy zinc]

Antos is good at high heat.

If Antos helps you win, go for it.

[shy plinth]

The pen is mightier than the sword, you know

[devout quiver]

skelly decoy

[next acorn]

[narrow carbon]

Antos one-shots the fury’s final phase, which can save runs. Antos is also good elsewhere - like Meg, needs some practice

[hallow cave]

Whats the asphodel and tart keepsakes for hestia

Gonna do 40 with it and maybe 50 too

I don't know much about how to use it other than hammers and boons

Whats the optimal dps combo

[heady olive]

im not sure but aphro sounds good for attack lol

maybe when the other hestia players r here

also for high heat taking athena for tart is good to get the extra dd

[honest kernel]

yeah this one is pretty good

[mossy zinc]

@hallow cave scroll up just a bit in #h1-builds-and-combat.

[hallow cave]

Do I always reload or wait for the clip to finish

And are dash strikes like bow dash strikes

[heady olive]

i guess? all dash strikes should be the same

oh wait i dont think the dmg for rail is decreased from dash striking tho

[hallow cave]

What abt the reload thing

[heady olive]

ull have to wait for someone else lol i dont use hestia

[hallow cave]

Power shot reload special cancel or use full clip

Oh ok

Lol

[jaunty falcon]

For Hestia you should never be using the full clip unless you don't have a dash boon and are taking out trash enemies like numbskulls

[hallow cave]

So power shot reload

[jaunty falcon]

Exactly

[hallow cave]

Is tidal dash for the swarms

[jaunty falcon]

Yes

[hallow cave]

Whats a good alternative?

[jaunty falcon]

But you don't need to use that for high heat, divine dash does fine, also passion dash

[hallow cave]

Alright

[jaunty falcon]

Also I would rebind reload away from R3

[hallow cave]

I'm kbm

[heady olive]

lol

[jaunty falcon]

Fair

[hallow cave]

Lol

For em3 who do you go for first

[jaunty falcon]

I go Asterius

[heady olive]

always asterius lol

[hallow cave]

Alright I'll do 40 in a couple hours and if thats relatively easy

[hallow cave]

Nah theres exceptions

[heady olive]

when o.o

[hallow cave]

Sometimes when I am low on time for example

If you break theseus while dodging asterius

You can just kill them the same time

[heady olive]

i suppose

[hallow cave]

Because I run aoe a lot

Works w flood shot on beo or hunting blades w the bigger blade boon thing lol

[heady olive]

hmm is that for beo

[hallow cave]

Das what I said

[heady olive]

for me i just lose if im low on time lol

dont have time to defeat either of them anyway

[hallow cave]

Beo was so easy on 40

I'm gonna dry 50 on it later today after hestia

Try*

[heady olive]

oo good luck

[hallow cave]

Its gonna be real funny if I get these 50s before achilles

[heady olive]

achilles isnt that strong for 50

[hallow cave]

I know but its my most used aspect by far so I'm trying to beat the WR

But need to finish 50 before 54

[heady olive]

oic

[hallow cave]

Huh

[mossy zinc]

You only unload your clip for Numbskulls in some situations, pretty much, like rmacinty said. And, you can press Special at the same time you press reload every other reload, but you don't really have to. Sometimes it's better to dash, anyway.

Tidal Dash is for finishing off enemies that survive your Empowered Shot just barely, boss damage, killing trash mobs, and murdering everything in Satyr tunnels.

And his t2 boons are great for damage, too.

[mossy zinc]

Depends on timer and stuff tbh. I'd probably go for EM Theseus first more often than not.

[hallow cave]

[mossy zinc]

With Hestia.

The fight shouldn't be a problem at all, and going after Theseus means the fight usually goes faster. Although ideally, they both go down together.

Faster EM3 means more time for Hades.

[waxen relic]

How is Tidal Dash on Arthur? vs Hydraulic Might?

(single Dash)

[devout quiver]

Tidal Dash good pmuch always, when you're looking for more damage

Which is most of the time.

It might make dash striking slightly tougher, but not by much

[jaunty falcon]

Don't know about high heat, but tidal dash on Arthur carried my sub 10 run

Also I believe Arthur prefers heartbreak strike, especially at high heat, which lessens the value of hydraulic might

[waxen relic]

Well i know about playing Tidal instead of the Aspect, provided 2 Dashes.

Decided i'll just get Dashes.

So far i've got Sweet Nectar instead.

Nope no Dashes. Gonna be hard.

[undone tartan]

Is Guan Yu really really bad at high heat or am I just bad with the aspect? I did runs with charged skewer at only 32 heat where my special was doing almost 700 damage and I still died in Elysium due to the health reduction

I’ve beaten 32 heat with 5 different aspects, and with much weaker builds than that

[hallow cave]

Ping astaos

[gaunt fiber]

It's alright

[waxen relic]

It's not bad it's hard.

[shy plinth]

"Punishing" even

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah in your case it's just lack of practice don't worry

does not matter how strong your build is if you die in two hits

[waxen relic]

Could try using Tooth in Elysium, if Heroes aren't as problematic anymore.

[gaunt fiber]

Charged skewer is not instant like a hestia shot either

you'll need to know your enemies behavior

[shy plinth]

Which 5 aspects did you clear so far

There are some that are easier than others for sure

GY was my last one out of the 24

And GY will teach you good habits because bad habits will get you killed

[gaunt fiber]

yeah

most 40 heat after GY were a breeze

[waxen relic]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/869308552383180810/20210726220053_1.jpg Interesting run. Dashes in Styx from Sweet Nectar Money. Had to improvise them with Smold and Nova against Heroes.

23 down 1 to go.

Also it had to be the one run where i tried FO1 for even more dmg reduction lol.

[narrow carbon]

What’s the last aspect to go?

[ripe ermine]

My goodness Hestia covers a lot of sins. I’ve done 50 Heat with it but any other aspect it’s like my thumbs are broke

[bright mango]

I think it falls off 45+

[plush flax]

I hate it here

I just got the charged skewer exploding launcher combo on aspect of hades 53 heat

and I died to time

[next acorn]

F

[mossy zinc]

@undone tartan what was your pact?

[undone tartan]

For Guan Yu? It probably wasn’t the best put together

I should have done SD LC4

[mossy zinc]

Guan Yu is one of the best aspects for no-hitting 32, especially if you have Charged Skewer.

You should have, yeah.

[undone tartan]

Still, I lost multiple DDs in one Elysium room every run

[mossy zinc]

Do you have FO2 on?

[undone tartan]

I don’t think so

[mossy zinc]

JS? CP? DC?

What keepsake do you start with?

[plush flax]

If you struggle with elysium

just do 1 benefits package (rather than 2)

on 32 there are plenty of other things that are fine

[undone tartan]

Aphro special

It was months ago when I did my Guan Yu runs

[mossy zinc]

The thing about Guan Yu is... it's definitely fine at 32 Heat, especially with Charged Skewer.

Your pact was unorthodox if you didn't do LC4 with SD at 32, so I dunno what you were running there in terms of pacts that might have caused issues.

But as you go up in Heat, it really falls off hard. The HP penalty is huge, and it has nowhere near the DPS to justify the penalty.

And it relies hard on Charged Skewer.

But even with Charged Skewer, there are aspects with better DPS with no penalty.

It's not just that you start with less HP.

SD value is halved.

Touch of Styx value is halved.

Centaur Heart value is halved.

Premium Vintage value is halved.

Life Affirmation value is halved.

Damage reduction and dodge chance value is halved.

Even if you make it all the way to Hades... fully Charged Skewer base damage is lower than Hestia's Empowered Shot, requires full charge, requires getting a specific hammer, requires Flourish boons from Master Chaos specifically to get more damage whereas Hestia can take both Strike and Lunge, and you go into the fight with half as much HP—or if more than half, gave up other opportunities in order to get your HP up.

Upside is that Special boons scale much better than Attack boons.

But Hestia will still have better DPS.

Even with no hammers.

[undone tartan]

I did not know this. Is that a bug? Those things should not be affected by it

[narrow carbon]

I think Nyaanyaa Mewmew means effective value - but to me dodge chance seems better the less HP you have to lose

[mossy zinc]

m not talking about the number, yes. The effective value is halved.

[mossy zinc]

Dodge chance is more important the less HP you have, yes.

But the eHP gain from any Dodge is lower the less HP you have.

At half HP, the eHP gain is halved.

[narrow carbon]

Hmm, I see. But with GY you’re more likely to be overkilled, so I guess it’s a bit better than half? Maybe splitting hairs now.

[mossy zinc]

Well, eHP is eHP. It doesn't express things like that. eHP is definitely halved. But you're right that the value of dodge chance is more than just eHP because of that.

[undone tartan]

Oh ok my bad I misunderstood what you meant

Well I’m doing another few attempts at 32 heat Guan Yu. My pact is:
HL2, LC4, CF2, EM3, BP2, MM, UC, FO1, TD3

I’m also using Stubborn Defiance and Fiery Presence

[mossy zinc]

Do HL5 FO0.

[undone tartan]

Really? Won’t I just get one-shot by anything?

[mossy zinc]

Low HP and HL5 doesn't matter if you don't get hit because everything moves in slow motion.

[undone tartan]

Yeah that makes sense to me but I don’t think I’m good enough to be that confident, especially in boss fights

For Asterius I’ll literally have to do the fight with only getting hit once, which is something I’m really not sure I could do

[mossy zinc]

I'd say FO1 takes more confidence than FO0.

And you can take more than one hit from Asterius.

It's not that hard to keep your HP capped with Guan Yu even with LC4.

Especially with FO0.

That's why Guan Yu is still pretty decent at 32 Heat.

[undone tartan]

Really? I’m absolutely terrible at using spin attacks to heal

[mossy zinc]

Well.

FO1 makes it a lot harder than FO0.

[undone tartan]

Especially not doing so in a decent amount of time

[undone tartan]

That is true

[mossy zinc]

You can do it at the start of waves or when it's only 1-2 enemies.

You don't have to fully heal up in one chamber.

You can just heal up a bit here and a bit there.

[undone tartan]

Ok

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah it's better not to rely on the spin except if you have quick spin or low FO. It's more a tool that allows you to go beyond hp thresholds than a real healing tool

Don't waste too much time spinning

[mossy zinc]

Lernie is great for healing up when it's only the main head. But don't try that when it's a multi-head phase, it's not good to be stationary for that long in that phase.

[undone tartan]

Yeah

[mossy zinc]

You don't have to learn how to use the spin effectively in every situation.

You just have to learn to find the situations where it's safe to spin.

Like if you're like "I always get hit trying to spin when x."

Then don't try to spin in those situations, simple as that.

[undone tartan]

So you’d advise HL5 and FO0? I’ll give it a shot, thank you for the advice. I’ll work on spins

[mossy zinc]

You can also spin across gaps.

[gaunt fiber]

It will be much easier even for Guan Yu yeah

[left prism]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/751198390892888294/869578301428092968/32heathelp.mp4
should have let the hangover do the work instead of trying to kill them myself? panicked at the end and well, failed

[hallow cave]

Level 6 special

Could have meg'd u had 3 batties left in styx

[heady olive]

u had a lot of dashes i feel like u shouldve just dashed till their attacks ended first

or used battie yea

[hallow cave]

Also theres moments where they stop attacking where ur dashing still

[left prism]

ah didnt think about meg

[hallow cave]

A shot there would've done the job

[mossy zinc]

I'd like to see that chamber from the start.

[hallow cave]

For the snakestonesn

[hallow cave]

This too really ^

[heady olive]

[left prism]

switch recording, couldnt get more than that

[hallow cave]

F

[heady olive]

well i think its best to wait out the lasers, then bait out the poison attack

then u can attack

[hallow cave]

Satyrs also walk around

They won't always be harassing you in a big boi room like that

[mossy zinc]

Also your movement is back and forth. You should be circling the Snakestones. You just keep dashing back into their attack.

[hallow cave]

And furthermore u have 10 minutes

Left u can use td3 easily

And replace some of the more challenging pact

Pacts*

[mossy zinc]

If you were moving back and forth like this the whole time you were in that chamber instead of circling the Snakestones when you were out in the open, m not at all surprised you lost your SD and then died there.

You also get behind cover and then dash immediately into a Snakestone beam.

From the start of that video, the first thing I'd have taken down is the Snakestones because you can easily circle them to get into their blind spot, and they harass you too much to take care of the Satyrs in peace.

And then the Satyrs are easy peasy. Just gotta listen for the cue and take their darts seriously.

Actually, might have taken down the Satyrs first. I dunno. Room doesn't seem too bad. You were just not playing with a strategy tbh, just kind of winging it.

By the looks of it.

[left prism]

, ty ty

[mossy zinc]

Something else you could have done, since the Satyrs are very close to the top pillar by the exit is circle towards the exit behind the pillar, bait the Satyrs there, and take care of them somewhat safe from Snakestones.

[red basalt]

That entire conversation makes me wonder, do you think it would be a good idea to put together a generalized ‘priority list’ for enemies in each area? I know it would prolly vary based on weapon, aspect, and other factors (BP comes to mind) but I feel like a ‘rule of thumb’ priority list would be useful to have, esp. for new players.

[mossy zinc]

It depends on too many things like positioning etc.

[red basalt]

That’s fair. But even having a discussion of ‘I focus X enemy first because Y reason’ I feel is valuable.

[slender fable]

I feel like there's too many variables to consider.
Even the very layout of the room can shift prioritisation, I feel like.

[mossy zinc]

Yeah.

[daring hedge]

there is a small handful of foes that do command priority simply because of what they do; namely voidstones

[slender fable]

Like, I can funnel Satyrs and Snakestones into a bottleneck, but then the jars can bomb me anyway, so I have to aim at them.
But that means exposing myself to the first two, which just brings things back to square one.

[mossy zinc]

The most important thing is to neutralize the threat from the most dangerous enemies.

But that doesn't always mean killing thrm first.

[red basalt]

Like for example, I like to murder the Brimstones and Snakestones first because they consistently track you, or as Nyaa said, just hit them to keep them from firing their lasers.

[mossy zinc]

Sometimes it just means putting some obstacle between you and them.

While you take care of the other enemies.

Or just keeping your distance.

[red basalt]

This also begs the question, what qualifies as the most dangerous enemies? I also feel like this can vary a whole heck of a lot, but in general certain enemies are more dangerous than others.

[mossy zinc]

Like Strongbows can be very dangerous, but they have limited range. If you can just stay out of their range, you can focus on the enemies close to you.

[slender fable]

I see, I see.

[red basalt]

Maybe it’s better to type up general methods for dealing with individual enemies instead? Like, the convo that prompted this was Nyaa’s advice on how to deal with Snakestones; circle them.

In theory if you can execute ways (preferably multiple ways) to deal with individual enemies, combinations of those enemies should also not be an issue.

[slender fable]

Kinda how Wave-Makers are a considerable danger, but there are several Gorgon heads flying all over the place that need to be dealt with RIGHT NOW because of how dangerous petrification can be.
Or something...

[mossy zinc]

Circling enemies is kind of true for most enemies tbh.

But it's also not so easy to write because a lot of it is instinct and intuition from lots of experience.

[daring hedge]

so much of how i deal with enemies is just baked into muscle memory

[mossy zinc]

If you show me a replay, I can see lots of paths I would have taken and stuff, and I can see when something you did is gonna get you hurt in a moment without having to wait for it to play out.

[slender fable]

It's made with snap judgements and rapid assessments on the battlefield.
Like, you can read about it, but it won't really click until you've tried and experienced it firsthand.

Man, that's a familiar feeling.

[mossy zinc]

But if you just ask me for a blank "what should I focus on first"... I dunno. Focus on no-hitting first and dealing damage second. Then focus on dealing damage first and no-hitting only second. Then figure out when to prioritize one over the other.

I guess.

[daring hedge]

Fluid prioritization in the middle of combat comes naturally with plenty of practice, which i think is the best way to develop that skill, rather than trying to remember comparative order from a guide write-up

[mossy zinc]

Doesn't help with any specific enemies, but that's how you get to the point where you can play mechanically clean. Effective and efficient.

[mossy zinc]

Yeah. Practice, practice, practice.

[waxen relic]

Watching some runs could help get an idea of how some room-clears should look like.

[mossy zinc]

Yeah.

But then I never really watch anybody lol.

Practice is still gonna matter most, end of the day.

[slender fable]

If you're not watching about it, then you're practicing it.
Look everything over, see what needs working on, what needs to improved, what bad habits need to be unlearned...

[mossy zinc]

I've watched my own videos sometimes when I got bloody murdered and couldn't immediately figure out how I could have won that chamber.

I've also made practice saves in some particularly bad BP2 chambers to figure out a strategy.

[heady olive]

taliesques 60 heat rama was nice to look at tbh

im not sure if it helped me but it was cool

[slender fable]

Benefits Package 2 is

[mossy zinc]

Sometimes the answer was this build isn't working at all, I need xyz to deal with that problem there.

[gaunt fiber]

Ranged enemies must die

Then you gucci

[hallow cave]

Everyone gangsta till speed and aimbot witches when you have no athena

[slender fable]

OH GOD

Don't remind me

[mossy zinc]

A lot of players forget that attacks can destroy projectiles, too.

You see players trying to dash away from homing projectiles with Guan Yu when they could have just pressed Special once.

Things like that.

[hallow cave]

Its not that easy when you're surrounded

[golden timber]

agree

[mossy zinc]

Why did you get surrounded?

[hallow cave]

That one tart chamber where they spawn all around u

[waxen relic]

This one. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/869646623280611328/20210727202130_1.jpg

Which means i'm through with All Aspect 32 Mirrorless!

[narrow carbon]

Huzzah!

[hallow cave]

Cracked

[jaunty falcon]

Well done!

[shy plinth]

Woot!

[autumn ginkgo]

Noice

[next acorn]

Congrats!

[quartz mantle]

Pog

[ripe crane]

Neat

[honest kernel]

That looks painful

[autumn ginkgo]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/861453601263321099/869717858643476480/unknown.png What do I sell?

Going into elysium, havent chosen keepsake yet

[jaunty falcon]

Sweet nectar