i think triple is more risky with better payoff
#h1-high-heat-strategies
halcyon flame
triple shot is apparently not good on zag bow because of the smaller hitboxes
honest kernel
its fine I think
honest kernel
edgy arrow
assertion: triple shot is bad
evidence: not a beowulf hammer
heady olive
whats a good build for rama? i normally take artemis attack and just go with whatever i get for special (dionysus, demeter, poseidon, etc)
also, is any dash fine for rama
im still learning how to use rama so ive beaten 30 heat so far
honest kernel
you want artemis dash or athena dash
heady olive
oo thanks
mossy zinc
Lightning, Hangover, or Doom on Rama Special.
jaunty falcon
If the other rewards aren't good, or if the Erebus reward is really helpful, I'll take it
Like if there's only gems/darkness on the other doors
bright mango
I would take erebus for these reasons:
- you are doing like a meme/fun run and need the god on the erebus or need big poms for a cast build
- you are using RI and you don’t have many resources
- you REALLY REALLY don’t like the door reward and have to take erebus to avoid it
There’s probably more but these are what I usually follow
wild mural
You wanna challenge yourself
bright mango
Ye erebus is pretty scary with fo2
mossy zinc
Infernal Gates are great. Other things being equal, Erebus always has better rewards.
If you're not speedrunning or in Elysium, Erebus is generally the right choice unless it's a god you really don't want in your build or you really want another room reward.
bright mango
There’s a pretty high chance if ur inexperienced you will fail
mossy zinc
Then you should get experience.
bright mango
Yeah but a lot of people here don’t have that kind of experience to do them consistently
mossy zinc
They're really not that bad.
bright mango
At like 40+ they can get scary
mossy zinc
At 40+, you have no business avoiding risks especially if you're having difficulty clearing. You should try to get the best rewards that you can always.
Just like you shouldn't avoid trials.
You only need to clear them more than half the time to expect a better reward from most Infernal Gates than from the other exits.
Only double obols really have bad value if you have CF2.
But even then, 200 obols is still more than a single pom.
bright mango
So what you’re saying is that you normally always take erebus?
solemn pulsar
Some early asphodel Erebus gates are honestly amazing
It’s like one super elite bloodless and one bomber
And that’s it
mossy zinc
So what you’re saying is that you normally always take erebus?
Not when speedrunning high heat because Erebus can't be a fountain or Thanatos encounter, but otherwise, pretty much.
But again, I might prefer one of the other rewards if it's a god I really want in my pool.
And, I'll generally take trials and Eurydice over Erebus.
Baby boss vs Erebus is usually baby boss for me.
ashen garnet
Some Elysium Erebus have very scary mobs though 
mossy zinc
Yeah, I don't really take Erebus in Elysium.
unique zephyr
At 40+ you need early resources
If you’re scared of Erebus you aren’t skilled enough to clear (easier said than done and sometimes i am a hypocrite)
Although the “need early resources” applies way more when you take stuff like RI. Big health is nice when you start with 50 HP
Basically in Tartarus I evaluate the Erebus door as if it’s just another room reward, if I want the reward over the other one(s) I try the gate
If the other rewards are better or only marginally worse (marginally worse is because I’m still somewhat of a coward and not sure of my evaluations sometimes) I take that room instead
It’s hard to pass up boons in Tartarus
I don’t really take asphodel Erebus gates or elysium but I haven’t seen that many enticing asphodel gates especially since my build is decent if I’ve made it out of Tartarus
The actual asphodel enemy gates are often not that bad though
I think Tartarus is the second hardest biome at high heat actually since you’re so weak and it’s hard on timer since you have the most chambers
jaunty falcon
Especially with BP2
unique zephyr
Yeah, at high heat I always have BP2 on
mossy zinc
And Meg is mean.
viscid fractal
Hello I've been trying to beat 48 heat with Hestia Rail the past couple days and even though I had some good runs I'm honestly struggling to get through. My Strat is the following :
- Start with Sisyphus bracelet, and if I get a good attack I switch keepsakes (tooth / skull / skull usually) and if I don't I keep tge bracelet
- Get as much health as possible
I usually die to elysium / elysium boss / or styx on time, which is a bit frustrating because if i get 4 sacked (sometimes 3) it's game over. Do you guys have any suggestions on how I can improve my heat set-up / strategy ?
unique zephyr
My max is 45 but maybe heightened security over jury summons? It might help with time
Heightened security being increased trap damage. It isn’t great but I take it for 40 and up
viscid fractal
I reached hades second phase only once and lost on time shortly after, I never took heihtened security so I don't know how I will phare against the pots but I can def try
unique zephyr
The pots suck but I usually don’t get hit by them now, they do stand still and with Hestia you can shoot the pots
With Hestia you can choose a safe ish place to shoot from
Hestia isn’t great at crowd control so lowering jury summons could help
I assume you’re fine with not really having a build right?
unique zephyr
Nice! I never tried shackle myself, maybe I should lol
Other than that your pact looks okay to me if you’re doing shackle
viscid fractal
i tried it on a bunch of weapons and on hestia it feels really nice esp in tart
unique zephyr
I think lowering jury summons may help you more than you think
viscid fractal
it's possible
unique zephyr
Also heightened security lets you pop SD a bit faster
viscid fractal
i would rather reach hades more often even if it means dying to pots
had like 3 or 4 runs where i got 3-4 sacked, where i had enough to win only if i got 2
so yea, will try that
thanks
unique zephyr
No problem, good luck!
Sack rng just sucks sometimes, nothing you can really do about that
honest kernel
I always take erberus if its heart or a god I really really need but never with a melee weapon
also never in elysium
narrow carbon
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/304205331255525386/848647855773712415/2...
If the only problem is time then switching to JS0 HS1 will help. Otherwise practicing your speed by improving your PB on any heat will also help you be fast at high heat. CP0 JS1 DC0 shouldn’t be that hard on the timer.
viscid fractal
i wouldnt say it's the only problem but i lost some runs because of that, that I would've otherwise won (most likely)
I will try with HS > JO, can also allow me to go for acorn in elysium/styx instead of skull which i need for the time issues
thanks for the advice
narrow carbon
Things you’re probably already doing, but just in case: map reload to a shoulder button (default button is slow and awkward); use your summon on the longer mini-bosses to save time; avoid trials and elite rooms; take the mini-boss Styx tunnels first. Those are the things I changed when I was timing out.
viscid fractal
i do these things except mini-boss styx tunnels
can you actually know that in advance lol ?
i have 150 hours it feels awkward that i don't know this
narrow carbon
The skull under the reward means there will be a mini boss in Styx
mossy zinc
Skull is elite chamber, Skull with an arrow is baby boss chamber.
You should take trials in Tartarus and probably Asphodel because you'll get a much stronger build.
Oh.
Take off RI entirely.
viscid fractal
and put what instead
narrow carbon
The pact is 48. Anything means CP2 DC2, and the problem is time 
viscid fractal
cant do em4
well to some extent without RI i get stronger and maybe it compensates for CP2 and DC2 but i doubt that
narrow carbon
WR Heat for Hestia is 57, with DC0
mossy zinc
Dark Foresight is broken, and you don't have rerolls, either. You shouldn't be taking RI until well in the 50s.
unique zephyr
How do I avoid RI2 at 50 heat? Is AP2 preferable
mossy zinc
Yes.
viscid fractal
even if i take off RI and put JC3 and CP2 i lack one heat
narrow carbon
Full mirror might make you strong/fast enough for JS3 CP1 (and add HS1 as before)
mossy zinc
Tbh if you keep timing out with Hestia, the issue isn't the mirror.
Nor what rooms you take.
viscid fractal
i get far without mirror so its mostly time
i am trying without JS and it feels a lot faster than i thought it would tbh
guess i can try messing around by keeping RI but it's gonna be hard to be at 48
mossy zinc
We were all taking RI at high heat in Early Access when Dark Foresight didn't work (it was bugged), and we all stopped taking RI in 1.0 when we saw how broken Dark Foresight was. You get 1.4x as many gold laurel rewards.
narrow carbon
You can also use Hell mode to get 1 “free” heat 
unique zephyr
A friend gave me a free hell mode file, I can DM it to you if you want
And some instructions
viscid fractal
i'm in styx with 8 minutes rn (HS > JS) so fingers crossed
mossy zinc
8m should be more than enough for a 5 sack.
narrow carbon
Good luck! I started a hell file today on Switch - kind of fun / interesting to play with low power, but not sure how long it’ll take to fill everything
honest kernel
good luck
solemn pulsar
When I get back to Rama 50 I might try AP2
AP2 can screw you with hammers unfortunately
Nothing like good old explosive shot
viscid fractal
died on a pot but well i never got this close so thanks for all the advice guys
narrow carbon
Nice 🙂 I sometimes take Sure Footing if I can just for the pots, hah
honest kernel
I think hestia works better for AP2 but try it out on rama
hestia essentially just needs attack boon and nothing else
unique zephyr
Hestia can’t take DC2, is it still good for super high heat (50+)
mossy zinc
Hestia can do DC2.
solemn pulsar
But it shouldn’t
solemn pulsar
Hestia can’t take DC2, is it still good for super high heat (50+)
Hestia is great up to 53ish and falls off hard after that because of how annoying DC is for it
But remains a top tier heat weapon regardless
It is tied for 3rd on unseeded heat records after all
mossy zinc
DC2 Hestia is a lot worse than DC0 Hestia and yet still one of the best DC2 aspects.
I'd say.
bright mango
At 40+ you need early resources
Umm no you don’t
Imo you need only need it with ri+
unique zephyr
I was thinking of my 50 heat attempts where I had RI
that's where I started more often considering erebus
mossy zinc
I mean you don't need boons at all for 40+, that's not the point. But early resources help a lot.
true fable
eris likely is up there for best dc2 aspects
mossy zinc
For sure.
next acorn
What makes Rama good for DC2
past moss
any rapid-fire weapon works but Rama is probably the nicest
closely followed by any other Bow, or Rail
inner ridge
What is DC?
inner ridge
Damage control
oh yeah those are annoying
true fable
yeah wut
the other bows are all pretty bad vs dc
its usually rama/rails, fists, and then the rest
flurry achilles/zag are okish
devout quiver
imagine if DC also blocked status (like the Chiron targeting or the sweep from Hades)
past moss
even God Statuses
wouldn't hurt THAT much but cancelling out Mark for no reason would be annoying
halcyon flame
DC2 Hestia is a lot worse than DC0 Hestia and yet still one of the best DC2 aspe...
is it because of tidal dash
solemn pulsar
Might just be that you have the full auto mode to clear it out
Hestia as budget Eris is still a better heat weapon than a lot of the others
next acorn
Is Hestia better than Eris at higher heats?
honest kernel
hestia is prob easier but eris good
celest grail
I prefer hestia much more than eris
bright mango
I think when u start taking ap2, thats when hestia shines
otherwise I think they are about the same
celest grail
Eris needs you to be always changing your position to get the special buff, and zeus attack needs a lot of stuff that you might not get with AP/RI
solemn pulsar
Hestia has the advantage of being able to play identically almost up to 50 heat
Not having to change behavior is key to an aspect being “easy”
next acorn
So Hestia's playstyle stays the same and requires very little boons/hammers to get it working well while Eris needs more to function?
gaunt fiber
yeah
You can keep your shackle the whole run with Hestia and be fine
eris needs lightning strike and jolted
But it really depends what pact we're considering though
But even then, Hestia is safer
solemn pulsar
hestia also needs less skill to use IMO
since the gameplan is just keep your distance, shoot, reload
for easy clears
when you want to start going fast or get pretty high in heat it gets a lot more complex
but just using hestia to clear is very straightforward
bright mango
Ye its just pew pew ez wins
mossy zinc
eris needs lightning strike and jolted
Drunken Strike is decent, too.
gaunt fiber
since the gameplan is just keep your distance, shoot, reload
the first time I played Hestia at 50 it felt so awful, I was actually bad at it
solemn pulsar
Yeah past 40 you do have to be different
And the hestia playstyle is easy once you get it, but it’s certainly an adjustment to learn
unique zephyr
the first time I played Hestia at 50 it felt so awful, I was actually bad at it
How does the gameplay change at 50 heat? At 45 heat I get to dad but then choke on phase 2
Hestia handles AP2 pretty well if you have RI0, even better than I expected
mossy zinc
How does the gameplay change at 50 heat? At 45 heat I get to dad but then choke ...
How much time do you have left when you die in phase 2?
If you remember my advice from like.. 32 Heat, was it? If you die to Hades when you still have plenty of time left, you're being too aggressive and reckless in the fight.
Just focus on a clean fight.
What changes at 50 is that you'll have to actually use your Special and be more efficient and effective mechanically, mainly. Up to 50, you can get by with just shoot and reload.
unique zephyr
How much time do you have left when you die in phase 2?
Last time I had less than 30 seconds
I think I started panicking when I heard the 30 seconds warning, I took a lot of time in phase 1 I think
mossy zinc
Oh I see.
Even then, you might have done it if you hadn't panicked.
You've seen plenty of victory screens that went into overtime yourself. 
By the way, seeing some of your comments on the speedrun server, too... you're starting to sound somewhat like you want to get 50 Heat over with rather than learn the skills you need to win 50.
I think you're focused on the number 50 above all else when you shouldn't be.
As in, it's not conducive to your learning.
50 is something to aim at while you're learning just to give you a direction, but when you only look at the 50 and stop looking at the road, you're just walking into all the hurdles along the way instead of getting over them.
unique zephyr
Huh, I haven’t thought of it like that
I do want to learn efficient movement and room clears
I’ve been IGT speedrunning partly to learn that
I got a sub 11 today
mossy zinc
Yeah I saw that.
heady olive
wow thats fast
mossy zinc
But as for your 50 Heat attempts, figure out which particular enemy types and BP combos give you the most trouble, that keep killing you the most, and then strategize for how to prevent that and actually win those chambers, then practice that.
The same goes for any bosses or baby bosses that kill you a lot.
Like start with the most consistent run killers.
unique zephyr
Cloner seeker witches is a big one
I have no idea how to consistently win those chambers
mossy zinc
Yeah.
So if you get into those chambers, instead of dying and just starting another run, back up your save and figure it out.
mossy zinc
Yup.
heady olive
how do u back up ur save?
mossy zinc
...\Documents\Saved Games\Hades
There's a file called Profile1_Temp.sav (or whichever profile number you're on). That's the temporary save from the current chamber you're in.
That's the one you want to back up.
And then if you want to practice that chamber, you start e.g. a profile 2. Then in that same folder, you replace Profile2.sav with your back-up save.
Profile2.sav is the permanent save of profile 2. The one that's normally in the House of Hades.
When you hit Quit, next time you load the game, it will load your temporary save normally.
If you hit Give Up, it will load your permanent save next time. (This is why you're back in the courtyard before your run started if you do that, normally.)
But if you replaced the permanent save in a profile with the temp save from any chamber you want to practice, any time you Give Up and reload the save, you will start in that chamber again.
heady olive
i see, so u can keep looping the same chamber over and over
mossy zinc
Yep.
heady olive
thats really efficient nice
mossy zinc
There was a time when I had Lernie in profile 2, Theseus & Asterius in profile 3, and Hades in profile 4 and just practiced them back to back for a couple hours every day.
heady olive
hmm i dont think i need to practice much with lernie, since im using rama
mossy zinc
Like, with HL5 CP2 EM3 FO2 HS and DC2. So anything maxed out that affects the fights.
heady olive
anyway thanks for the help :)
mossy zinc
And a relatively weak build.
heady olive
that set up would be too high heat for me lol
i have calisthenics program 1 and no HS
mossy zinc
It will be too hard at first, but you get to constantly practice the fight and review your tactics.
unique zephyr
How often is CP2 turned on in high heat pacts? Or do you just want the toughest version of the fight?
heady olive
It will be too hard at first, but you get to constantly practice the fight and r...
thats true
unique zephyr
How did the practice pay off?
mossy zinc
Actually I think I didn't have DC2 because that was when I practiced for 52 back then, and I wasn't gonna take DC2 for that.
Well, I did 52 first try and that was high heat WR at the time.
heady olive
wow nice
unique zephyr
Nice! What aspect did you use?
mossy zinc
Beowulf.
More like +400% Charged Flight, but Beowulf mechanics played some part in it, too.
unique zephyr
What kind of build did you practice the fights with
mossy zinc
A little bit.
unique zephyr
I didn’t know charged flight was good
mossy zinc
It was broken lol.
I had er... Charged Flight, Heartbreak Flourish, Dionysus' Aid, and Smoldering Air.
Single dash.
Smoldering Air is great for practice fights to teach you how to use your call for i-frames and stuff.
Since you just simply get more uses.
unique zephyr
You want to press the call just before you get hit right?
I’m not familiar with call and summon I frames
mossy zinc
Yeah, very similar timing to dashes.
Except Call i-frames are a little longer, I daresay.
That's why you'll see most players run away and then dash to i-frame Hades's spin (or get out of range) when they have a Call ready while I'll dash towards him when he readies his spin and just i-frame it with my Call and go all in attacking him immediately.
Because I actually took the time to practice using my Call like that.
You can see other top players do things like that, too.
unique zephyr
I guess every call is defensive not just Athena call
mossy zinc
It's one of the things that gives top players way higher DPS than other players with the same builds in the same fight.
Yeah, Call i-frames are great.
Also helps you actually hit enemies with the full Call.
unique zephyr
For a practice fight do I just press “give up” when I win or die before the screen changes
mossy zinc
Yeah.
You can still give up during the death animation even.
Make sure you backup the file somewhere, so if you mess up, you can just overwrite it again.
Which can happen occasionally because sometimes you just space out after a death or something.
At least for me.
unique zephyr
Thanks for reminding me about the back up
mossy zinc
But I have ADHD, so maybe that's not a typical thing lol.
unique zephyr
I’ve choked to dad three times now with Hestia 45, a practice save would be useful
I still don’t know how to I frame the spins consistently
I just dash away especially if I have extra dashes
mossy zinc
You can name your backups whatever you want, so make sure the name is descriptive.
unique zephyr
Which costs me time and dps and safety
Wait really? I thought you had to name them profile
Profile number I mean
mossy zinc
You have to when you overwrite it, yes.
But in your practice saves folder where you back them up.
You can name them whatever you want there.
heady olive
I just dash away especially if I have extra dashes
is it better to dash through? since hades lunges forward when spinning iirc
heady olive
oh, yea that happens to me too
gaunt fiber
How does the gameplay change at 50 heat? At 45 heat I get to dad but then choke ...
I guess it's just less room for mistakes. The fact that you have less boons also forces you to understand the aspect. I think you can be bad with an aspect and still clear 40 heat with your game knowledge
unique zephyr
So 40 is general game skill and 50 is aspect skill then?
spice lava
Not really imo, 40 is kinda aspect skill as well
heady olive
its not necessary to make clear boundaries for "general" skill and "aspect" skill, since u cant measure them that well either
spice lava
Else 40x24 would be done more by people and being lazy or lacking time don't seem to be the only reasons why people don't do it
unique zephyr
I need to do 32 x 24 first haha
I feel better about the 40 heat clears I do have now 😄
spice lava
I know that you want (need?) calculations and stuff behind the 32/40/50 heat barriers but most of us don't put words or explanations behind all those obstacles, we just play and lose until we win
unique zephyr
I need to build up instinct I guess
I just am not sure what I need to change in my approach
Since I need to change something that I’m not aware of if I’m losing 90+ times and not visibly improving
spice lava
Numbers aren't that reliable here, it depends a lot from one runner to another
Bright01 said that Hera 50 took him around 300 tries with his experience from low and high heat
unique zephyr
My problem is timing out in Tartarus or dying there while trying not to time out
Especially if I get unarmored witches my skill isn’t good enough right now to kill them fast enough
heady olive
r u using hestia for 50 heat
spice lava
Titigore spent a lot of time with Eris at any heat and when he decided to do 50 heat, clearing it took him only 2 hours streaming
unique zephyr
I was doing Rama
spice lava
Hestia is fine with witch elite chambers, it's like hunting ducks
Because you can move very quickly after the empowered shot so the hit and run is easy, while you are more static with bow
unique zephyr
Bow requires you to commit
Especially Rama
I guess I should consider that I am improving even if it doesn’t seem like it?
spice lava
But i'd say one of the common mistakes here is to see only progression through clears: Your skills are improving even if you didn't clear 50 yet
@spice lava
unique zephyr
Ah right you did say that
The tilting thing is more so dying very early over and over
But dying in Tartarus a lot is a high heat thing in general I guess
mossy zinc
@unique zephyr in fighting games, we study our own replays, losses in particular. Look at every time you got hit and why and what you should have done instead. Did you react too late? If so, is it because the attack is not reactable or was your attention elsewhere and why? How about your position in the room? Are you fighting your enemies in a place that gives you e.g. cover from projectiles or are you wide open? Etc. etc.
gaunt fiber
So 40 is general game skill and 50 is aspect skill then?
I think general knowledge (being "good" at the game because experienced) can make up for your lack of skill with a specific aspect at 40. That and a good build
It's only my opinion anyway. Like, I got my beo 40 heat clear on my first try (second time ever on the aspect, I used in once my noob days) because it was one of the last I did at 40 heat so my experience (and my build) carried me
gaunt fiber
^
mossy zinc
Some players have the patience to do TD1 at 40 or whatever and just take their time playing super careful.
Some just reset for a speedrun build that deletes everything for them.
waxen relic
Yeah, you can see it like this: It's not even that hard to clear 40 Heat without utilizing any Aspect, but trying to clear 40 without knowing enemies, builds, knowing how to use i-frames etc. is foolish.
solemn pulsar
Some just reset for a speedrun build that deletes everything for them.
Isn’t that it’s own brand of patience?
spice lava
@unique zephyr are you sure Rama is the aspect you feel really comfortable with to clear 50?
I mean... Runs after runs, after 45 you "normally" built a bit of confidence with the aspect along the way to the point you feel that 50 heat clear may/might be reachable but the way you talk you sound like it was a fluke
Whatever the knowledge whatever the time spent on an aspect, if you don't believe in you or your victory, it will be very difficult
This isn't weird because 50 heat is a floor where you are more likely to doubt. We probably all did
But first 50 heat is a mix between knowledge, experience and affinity with your aspect: You know what to do to deal DPS, you know the boons you're looking for, you have a backup plan when you miss some boons, you know the time you need to be comfortable against bosses (your time, not ours, yours) etc.
We can try to explain all of that with words like we did but we can't build and forge your confidence to clear your first 50 heat
junior mountain
me who can barely clear 20 heat:
taking notes interesting
spice lava
We talked about instinct earlier but this is something that works with confidence as well: you follow your instinct only if you trust it
bright mango
Yeah @unique zephyr I think going through your own replays and seeing what you did wrong yourself is probably going to help you improve more than other people looking at it
Since you are actively thinking on what to do better
unique zephyr
<@266732686838595606> in fighting games, we study our own replays, losses in par...
I see. Sometimes when I look at my own replays in regards to TD3 I am not sure how I could have prevented timing out, sometimes I think I’m doing okay then I have 30 seconds left in chamber 12
unique zephyr
<@266732686838595606> are you sure Rama is the aspect you feel really comfortabl...
It’s the only aspect I cleared above 40 with, although Hestia 45 is close, just need to stop choking to dad
unique zephyr
I mean... Runs after runs, after 45 you "normally" built a bit of confidence wit...
It felt like a fluke to me for some reason, not sure why
I had epic greatest reflex in my 45 heat clear which definitely helped
I just don’t know where to start in terms of improving my skill when I hit a wall, sorry for me posting so much
narrow carbon
I see. Sometimes when I look at my own replays in regards to TD3 I am not sure h...
I’d focus on rewatching whichever rooms were slowest to figure out how to increase DPS (like tagging fewer enemies and focusing them down instead of spending time dashing around to tag everyone). Or look for what’s different in the recorded 50 Heat videos. The most obvious difference from my gameplay is that once they commit to an attack, they rarely need to reposition due to an incoming enemy.
heady olive
should i move on to 45 heat after completing 40? just wondering what others have done
heady olive
ic, i think doing 40 heat all weapons would take too much time for me lol
im focusing on bow and rail since i like ranged weapons
narrow carbon
should i move on to 45 heat after completing 40? just wondering what others have...
I did all weps 40 - it gave me more confidence for 45, but nothing “wrong “ with trying 45 right away. (My first 45 attempts before all weps 40 were not good.)
spice lava
I jumped from 40 to 50 but this is not something I recommend unless you already spent a lot of time with your main aspect
honest kernel
just do what you like tbh
spice lava
Going for 50 means that you already know what you're doing
AP1 or AP2 can mess up with you but you still have plans to build your way to win
honest kernel
50 heat was def more frustrating than 40x24
to me
but it took less time
50 just tests your patience
and skill
heady olive
hmm okay thanks, ill start 45 heat then
true fable
see how you feel after 45
yeah
i ended up doing all aspects 45 and then thought it was pretty ok so i tried all weapons 50
devout quiver
64x24 when
pseudo kernel
64x24 when
right now
devout quiver
ebik, can't wait for the vid
jaunty falcon
Just don't get hit, duh
spice lava
true fable
LOL
pseudo kernel
nice
unique zephyr
50 heat should be at the top of that staircase
spice lava
No at the top it's Tailesque/Hadesprof/Retrash
spice lava
And ykc
unique zephyr
One thing I realised is that part of it is me needing to get used to RI2 since I’m not experienced with it
pseudo kernel
skip ri2 and do mirrorless
unique zephyr
I did mirrorless 32 Hestia
pseudo kernel
nice
spice lava
You don't have to at 50, you can just go RI1 in exchange of some points on CP/JS
unique zephyr
The first level of RI is a lot of the difficulty for me
Your build just sucks so much worse lol
And no rerolls
spice lava
That's how high heat works next to the end: Playing without the luxurious build
I have infinite power if I keep on with those stupid memes https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/807672625739858000/849340864445808660/unknown.png
pseudo kernel
nice
junior mountain
true
honest kernel
I feel like when I start using ri1 I can use ri2 already
gaunt fiber
yeah
unique zephyr
RI1 hurts so much for being only 2 heat
spice lava
Depends, I'm starting to like PS too much so using RI2 becomes painful
true fable
i also dont play high heat anymore lol
gaunt fiber
!!!
true fable
i ran Ri1 for my first eris 50 i think
honest kernel
another person lost to speedrunning....
true fable
and luci 50
gaunt fiber
but you'll be back at it right mr bright
true fable
only so much resetting for lightning strike one man can do....
i do want to give 58/60 some more goes though
honest kernel
good luck
gaunt fiber
it was a great stream
heady olive
whats the standard 45 heat set up with PL? for rama
honest kernel
PL?
honest kernel
oh
hmmm
I kinda dont like hellmode 45
because it forces CP1
I usually put HL5, CF2, LC4, JS3, EM3, BP2, MM, UC, FO2, HS, DC2, AP1, TD3
so if you run hellmode you can just take one off
tidal flame
HS is free. Just don't step on traps.
heady olive
okay ill remove AP1
unique zephyr
I don’t run ap at 40
honest kernel
we are talking about 45
tidal flame
Well 45 is just 40 with 5 extra heat.
honest kernel
true...
mossy zinc
whats the standard 45 heat set up with PL? for rama
There are no standard pacts at 45+ except for certain staples like LC4 etc.
heady olive
yea, i wanted to know what the players here took
does calisthenics program also increase the hp of bosses and elites
jaunty falcon
Yes
heady olive
:(
gaunt fiber
EM3 CP2 👌
spice lava
Depends I'd say, if I time out at Elysium, CP2 minions become my #1 reason 👀
mossy zinc
Just skip Elysium.
past moss
So that's what the Sigil does.
honest kernel
sometimes
hollow lynx
haven't played in five months lel
unique zephyr
Taking a break for physical and mental health
Not sure if I want to pursue the 50 heat grind tbh
spice lava
Less calculation, more willpower
gaunt fiber
I'm learning EM4 Phoenix
Got to phase 3 with Talos
(50 heat)
I'll just go the Retrash way
honest kernel
good luck
honest kernel
How ya doin my heat people?
Slowing down the pace a bit. Any future High Heat stuff is likely going into training on an EM4 savestate
true fable
i havent been doing too much high heat
took a break fromit after getting to 21/24 at 50
just speedrunning and playing other games
waxen relic
Alright this is the EM4 Month (Mirrorless)
pseudo kernel
How ya doin my heat people?
Fine, I've been trying to do 32 heat mirror less for 2 days now and I can't do it
waxen relic
Fine, I've been trying to do 32 heat mirror less for 2 days now and I can't do i...
Aspect?
pseudo kernel
Zeus
waxen relic
Good Call
honest kernel
the em4 training arc where half the players will drop the game (me)
gaunt fiber
Alright this is the EM4 Month (Mirrorless)
Nice! Streaming/recording?
pseudo kernel
I actually got close to beating it, but one of my pixels touched a green pot and I died
waxen relic
I'll try to record it i guess
honest kernel
hestia was rly ez for mirrorless to me
spice lava
How ya doin my heat people?
Fine, slowing down a bit, spent time to try hotw but the more I tried the more I forgot what I really wanted to do at high heat so I stopped
frigid mica
What do yall think is the easiest/least intrusive Heat debuff to pick for a +1 Heat run?
jaunty falcon
For me, tight deadline. That’s different if you aren’t comfortable clearing quickly
frigid mica
I've only cleared the game once so far, hence the +1 Heats. That makes sense tho. My first clear time was around 33~ min so I probably don't want to use Deadline yet.
I just went ahead and selected the trap/magma dmg+ one. As long as I dash intelligently that one doesn't seem too bad.
frigid mica
Oh dang, I didn't think the pots counted too. Good point
jaunty falcon
I dont even take it at 40 heat
frigid mica
I'll give Deadline a go next time. Thx!
gaunt fiber
Hard Labour should not hurt too much as long as you don't go for forced overtime
frigid mica
That's also what I figured about Labour.
gaunt fiber
Underworld Customs is 2 heat and very easy to play around
(as long as you don't use routine inspection which results in less boons)
frigid mica
i would never! i love options
jaunty falcon
Damage control, jury summons and calesthenics program seem like easy heat to newer players, but they are pretty bad
gaunt fiber
yeah they're bad
unique zephyr
JS really depends on if you’re using tight deadline or not
Well, JS1 and JS2 anyway
JS3 is always really dangerous
frigid mica
Do heat bounties stack? Like if I clear Elysium with the bow on heat +1 but haven't done it on heat 0 will I get two Ambrosia?
frigid mica
I'll just start this run at 0 then just in case I win. Ty
native patio
Np
frigid mica
Good point Pengy, I was thinking it was less.
unique zephyr
One thing about heat 0 bounties is that you do miss out on them if you add heat, this is the only exception
frigid mica
Oh ok... But if I skipped passed Heat 1 and completed something on Heat 2... I'd get the Heat 1 and 2 stuff?
frigid mica
Oh you "miss out" on them completely if I skip Heat 0?
pseudo kernel
No
frigid mica
Then wtf is Bacchus talking about?
pseudo kernel
One thing about heat 0 bounties is that you do miss out on them if you add heat,...
I've never heard about this
frigid mica
???
shy plinth
Bacchus has played a lot of Hades
frigid mica
Oh ok. C'mon ppman why you making me doubt him 😂
pseudo kernel
Well I've never heard of that
pseudo kernel
Bacchus has played a lot of Hades
Ye I know
gaunt fiber
I remember missing bounties while adding heat
idk about the 0 heat thing though, blurry in my memories
unique zephyr
Basically you have 0 heat bounties, if you do any amount of heat while not finishing the 0 heat ones you miss on the 0 heat ones
It happened to me a few times before I realised
gaunt fiber
yeah
shy plinth
You can only claim rewards for the lowest Heat you have not yet completed, even if you defeat a boss at a higher heat (e.g If you have not yet beaten the Final Boss on 2 Heat for the Rail, then you go through and defeat them using 5 Heat, you will claim the remaining rewards for 2 Heat, and your Target Heat for the Rail will go up to 3). The Bounties for 0 Heat are tracked separately, and cannot be claimed by clearing on a higher heat.
shy plinth
From the wiki
unique zephyr
In this case the wiki is right
The wiki is often wrong but not for this particular thing
frigid mica
Ok, good to know I can up the heat more after I clear all the 0 ones. Thanks guys.
gaunt fiber
oh about that, lemme check if some clowneries are still here
ah
Still need to test out the armored exalted souls without BP
mossy zinc
FYI, this channel is for high heat, which doesn't have a clear cutoff point but is like around 32+ Heat. That's where the high heat leaderboard starts, anyway.
frigid mica
I know, sorry. I'm new and figured this would be a good place for any heat related questions.
mossy zinc
#h1-discussion and #h1-builds-and-combat are perfectly fine for questions like that, too. Not saying you can't ask your questions here, but these aren't questions that require experienced high heat players for a good answer.
Most of us keep track of those channels too, anyway.
solemn pulsar
You don’t miss the 0 heat rewards though
You can always get them again
By clearing at 0 heat
As the wiki says they’re stored separately not overwritten
narrow carbon
^
slow cairn
Any advice for Fists at 40 heat?
I've still got Shield and Rail to clear at 40 as well, but with Fists all I can think to do is try and make it on a cast run or just play perfectly. It always feels more vulnerable than other weapons to me.
mossy zinc
Get Divine Dash.
unique zephyr
Pick up long knuckle, honestly I got my victory using Athena’s legendary
And yes, get Athena dash
Fists appreciate the safety a lot
narrow carbon
I did 40 with Gilgamesh, Ruthless Reflex, and Tidal Dash + other Poseidon boons. Just Dash and maybe Maim sometimes
honest kernel
im kinda thinkin about 50 heat all weaps but then I'd have to play sword again
well I can play till I have to worry about that
unique zephyr
I’m decompressing but hopefully I’ll be able to do 50 heat after I decompress and stuff
Did 50 heat feel out of reach for you for a while when trying it, Toffel
honest kernel
for sure and it was very tilting
but I got it after a while
the most tilting part is not getting out of early levels
it was insane how hard it felt compared to 45
spice lava
I don't know 45 
honest kernel
45 is just 40 with a slightly worse build
spice lava
I tried 50 right after 40 without any clue, and along the way I found my own clues about my ability to clear it. I felt confident when I was able to reach the Styx after like... 70 tries
Took me time because I never even trained EM3 during that time before so that was a lot of new stuff to enable on the pact for one single clear
unique zephyr
the most tilting part is not getting out of early levels
This is my main issue
Not that I died 90 times but that like 87 of them were in Tartarus
40 heat without EM3 sounds...interesting
@honest kernel how differently does dio start Rama play? Do I still do power shots and stuff and just pick up a decent percent based attack?
spice lava
I used EM3 for 40
Lemme check my pics
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/807672625739858000/849898677580857354/IMG_20210603_083324.jpg
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/807672625739858000/849899709547151360/IMG_20210603_083657.jpg
spice lava
@unique zephyr Maybe but I had no clue, I just tried and tried
I felt the need to enable FO after 40, not before
I came to the Discords when I started to study 50 heat
I was on my own the whole time before to the point I learned the utility of the acorn from Twitter and was still wearing blossom pom against Hades at 32
Now I have the knowledge to do more cursed pacts 
honest kernel
<@456226577798135808> how differently does dio start Rama play? Do I still do po...
yeah for sure dio starts just makes it much easier for me to deal w tart enemy groups
most of them die right after tagged and it doesnt make bp2 as scary
spice lava
From 40 to 50, that was learning FO2 + EM3 while having 50 hp and 5 min per floor so this was a big jump
spice lava
370 empowered shot
honest kernel
👁️
spice lava
I was like fine after 53 heat then tried Rama
Then I heard about aotw and decided to give it a try
honest kernel
aotw?
honest kernel
oh
spice lava
That was a mistake for me I'd say, I'm more the type of runner who needs to get focused on 1 or 2 aspects at the time
spice lava
My ego went on the way as well: When people told me Hestia was easy I stopped working on it to do something else
honest kernel
yeah I dont have fun playing with lotta aspects I think
curse of hestia
but also
yes I just won 50 with it kinda easily
given I did 50 before so I had experience
but nothings wrong about running top tier weapons you want to increase your chance of winning after all
true fable
yeah def not
the greatest trick beo players ever pulled was convincing people it was bad
honest kernel
and I still don't think rama is that much harder than other top heat weaps
spice lava
I think Hestia is a trap because if you compare to other aspects the difficulty at 50 isn't "huge"
honest kernel
even if it gets said every now and then
spice lava
But Hestia becomes painful after 50 when you want to add heat without touching DC
honest kernel
I think it makes you ignore enemy patterns to some extend because of how safe you can play it
true fable
i think zeus is the hardest of the classically good high heat weapons
IMO
then probably rama/beo then hestia
but the difference isnt as huge as people think
im only ranking it based on how hard you get punished for having bad habits or inexact approaches
spice lava
Zeus isn't hard, we just need to understand we need a driving licence to use it and few people have it 
true fable
LOL
honest kernel
its true I dont have a license
I never thought zeus was that hard but I also didnt try 50 w it yet
if you keep yoyoing it
spice lava
Zeus is a really good DPS but it's not that easy to clear fast with it under TD3
true fable
what yagg mentioned is the major stopping point imo
hard to clear on zeus quickly AND safely
honest kernel
well now I gotta do zeus 50
spice lava
Zeus is an aspect that really makes you care about positioning, you start having "geometry" strats, considering changing your place so the special can deal DPS while returning to you
And you need to divise your focus between what your special is doing and the foes
Idk we tend to say some aspects are "easy" but truth is this is still 50 heat which is an unfriendly floor
I mean that all roads may lead to Rome but some people may never arrive whatever tips or hints we can provide about the 50 heat roads
Zeus is seen as one of the best high heat aspects like theorically but when it comes to use it to clear 50 or higher for real, we only have very few masters (Baj, Ledger, Hadesprof? Bright01?)
gaunt fiber
ok
true fable
pseudo is incredible with the aspect
as is that chinese player whose name escapes me
the one who's not ykc LOL
waxen relic
Phantom
true fable
i dont think im good at zeus
i just asked baj some questions
and he gave good answers
spice lava
"Don't use it" ? 😏
spice lava
I trust you on that Astaos, the only thing that is hard for you at 50 heat is staying humble
gaunt fiber
honest kernel
ok I suppose td3 with zeus is kinda hard
spice lava
Well it's complicated to run after Theseus when he's doing his best Mariokart life
bright mango
i think zeus was the easiest 50 I've done
Might've been bcs I had experience but it was pretty smooth
spice lava
That means you already had your driving licence during that time 👀
next acorn
Coconut Mall 👀
solemn pulsar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12i4n92aJAw
For this test I set the dash to have invulnerability for 2 seconds, for visibility. You can see how long it lasts with RushWeaponInvulnerable = 1.0 popping up in the debug menu.
You can see that it does not linger when dash striking, and is removed from a previous dash when a dash strike takes place.
Once I add Delta Chamber, it is no longer removed, despite dash striking repeatedly. I believe this means that delta chamber retains full I frames from the dash and does not lose them.
not sure how well known delta chamber's i-frame interactions are in general
but i thought i'd find out for good what exactly is happening
tidal flame
Nice detective work.
honest kernel
I never knew
solemn pulsar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B684WJ_T1qA
beowulf casts remove dash i frames after a rush
honest kernel
:(
honest kernel
😎 👍
unique zephyr
Would you say clearing 50 was worth it
honest kernel
lmao
yeah I do feel accomplished after overcoming the challenge
was it worth it for my life? probably not
narrow carbon
lol
true fable
worth it cosmically?
no
worth it like in a philosophical sense?
probably not
worth it as in did it make me feel good?
yeah
eternal hare
I think the feeling of satisfaction was worth the resources I put into it
gaunt fiber
yesn't
honest kernel
50 heat was but a step towards my goal with this game
Pushing Zeus Shield as far as I can
bright mango
Would you say clearing 50 was worth it
Exactly what bright said
It was definitely rewarding
mossy zinc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12i4n92aJAw
For this test I set the dash to hav...
"Removed from a previous dash"?
solemn pulsar
"Removed from a previous dash"?
Not relevant normally, I just extended the invulnerability of the dash to illustrate
mossy zinc
I have no idea what that's even supposed to mean in the first place. You do Dash A, followed by Dash B, you cancel Dash B into a Dash-Strike, and then the "previous dash" i.e. Dash A has its i-frames removed?
solemn pulsar
well dash b was more of an instant dash strike
it was really just to illustrate the point
it's not really relevant to the outcome
the previous dash is the reason the invincibility was still active
mossy zinc
But Dash A is not happening anymore. The animation was already canceled into Dash B.
solemn pulsar
ok
i mean
it was just supposed to explain why the dash invincibility was hanging around
it's not relevant to the outcome
mossy zinc
Hmm. Rather than empty-dash frames just not having a hurtbox, does it effectively apply a status effect "invulnerable" or something like that?
And then Dash-Attack removes the effect?
solemn pulsar
yes
by filtering the debug menu on the RushWeaponInvulnerable in the menu i had in those videos you can inspect when your iframes are active
mossy zinc
Have you tried doing a Dash-Attack with Hestia's Empowered Shot?
Hestia's Empowered Shot doesn't count as an "Attack" or "Dash-Strike" for the tutorial text that shows up when you equip it.
solemn pulsar
that is an oversight in the games files
every weapon is given its prompt specifically
but SniperGunWeaponDash does not have one
it's looking for GunWeaponDash in that case
Hestia's empowered dash strike is still a dash strike, for the purposes of chaos/hunter dash buffs
mossy zinc
m aware of that. I was thinking since it's bugged in that way, though, maybe it doesn't remove invulnerability similar to how Delta Chamber doesn't.
solemn pulsar
Delta chamber is not a bug, it is a specific and intentional property change that is part of the hammer
it deactivates a property of the dash strike
a property which I assume causes an interruption of the i-frames
since that is what i observed and nothing else that delta chamber changes could cause that
the hestia thing is purely a oversight when they were writing the objective text for the courtyard
there is no objective corresponding to hestia's dash strike
it has nothing to do with the weapon itself. All of the objectives are linked directly to the weapons themselves, and do not use an inheritance structure that would classify things as dash strikes
mossy zinc
I highly doubt that keeping invulnerability through Dash-Strikes was intentional, though. It might be an unintentional side effect.
solemn pulsar
each objective listed in the courtyard corresponds to a single weapon. However, Hestia's dash strikes can be one of two weapons based on whether it is the empowered shot or not. The dash objective for Hestia is linked to the normal rail dash attack weapon, not the empowered shot dash attack weapon
mossy zinc
Got it.
solemn pulsar
well when you figure out what the property "CanCancelDisables" does (true on every dash strike, false on every standard attack/special & delta chamber), and why setting to false would unintentionally remove i frames from the dash strike
we'll know
details on that property are not present in the lua, so I can't inspect it manually, so I checked it empirically by seeing the changes in what effects on Zagreus were changed with delta chamber VS without it. The invulnerability altering was the only thing I saw
my take on it is that it no longer allows the dash strike to overwrite the invincibility qualities of the dash
mossy zinc
Have you set it to true for Delta Chamber to see what changes?
mossy zinc
my take on it is that it no longer allows the dash strike to overwrite the invin...
That's one effect, evidently.
solemn pulsar
it... removes the i frames
mossy zinc
Nothing else?
solemn pulsar
all of the other changes delta chamber makes alter things to do with bullet timing
i mean there could be other stuff
i dont see any effects changing
aside from that one
it could be adding 1 million darkness and subtracting 1 million darkness every other frame
but all i can see is the i frames changing
mossy zinc
lolol
Yeah I was thinking maybe setting it to true would break it somehow and their fix was setting it to false.
Could also be from a different idea they tested and forgot to change back.
honest kernel
My son is back.
mossy zinc
There's just nothing about the Delta Chamber description or intuitively what you'd expect of it that implies "you keep your i-frames".
solemn pulsar
yeah
mossy zinc
Does invulnerability take effect on frame 1 of your dash?
m still on phone and the debug text in your video is too small and fast to read.
solemn pulsar
probably? I can't see a gap but I'm not looking frame by frame
RushWeapon has 0 charge time
solar maple
I feel like its frame 2 or something but I have no evidence to back that up
mossy zinc
It's frame 1.
gaunt fiber
I feel like its frame 2 or something but I have no evidence to back that up
I wonder... Would frame 1 means that you get the iframe as soon as you dash?
solar maple
Yes
gaunt fiber
hmm
Trying to dodge Hades double sweep without double dashing atm
and it feels like my timing is a bit off
solar maple
Fresh file 👁️
gaunt fiber
No just EM4
solar maple
I usually double dash vs em4 spins
gaunt fiber
same, sometimes I get the dash animation and still get hit
solar maple
Aaaaaa mobile
waxen relic
The way i understand it is that you need to hit dash the frame before the damage hits
gaunt fiber
The dark souls way but a bit tighter
unique zephyr
Just a bit
waxen relic
Dark Souls lags like hell on my machine, so i really couldn't play
gaunt fiber
sadge
unique zephyr
How bad is your computer? I’m looking into getting dark souls 1 when it goes on sale
waxen relic
it was 3 though so i can't say
unique zephyr
Oh ok lol
heady olive
how do i fight the bow users in elysium using rama? i lose my run to them sometimes
im not sure whether to tag them all or focus them one by one, and if i should be hiding behind walls and stuff
gaunt fiber
You have a window after the three shots sequence. The thing is that there will probably be a lot of them so you wanna play with terrain. Don't try to powershot too much
heady olive
oh okay
gaunt fiber
But yeah they're a problem for Rama for sure
Tagging all of them is good though, if you can damage everyone while being safe
heady olive
nice, ill keep doing that if possible then, thanks for the help
honest kernel
I usually hide behind terrain and wait for an opportunity
heady olive
oh one more thing
the normal way to fight shield users is to dash through them right
heady olive
I usually hide behind terrain and wait for an opportunity
yea ill do that next time
gaunt fiber
Yeah. You bait the double melee attack (dash/aoe) and get behind them
If you stay too far they'll harass you with their range attack
heady olive
yea i recently lost a run to that, his range attack hit me twice so i took 50 dmg :(
gaunt fiber
yeah and same problem as bows, there are more than one so multiple attacks to dodge
mossy zinc
the normal way to fight shield users is to dash through them right
You don't have to dash through them necessarily. You just need to bait their melee attack, i-frame it or otherwise get out of the way, and get behind them. I probably move around them more often than I dash directly through one.
You can also hit them when they raise their shield for their ranged attack.
heady olive
oh, ive never hit them when theyre using their ranged attack
mossy zinc
It's the same with Theseus.
heady olive
regardless, wouldnt dashing through them be faster than moving around them
heady olive
It's the same with Theseus.
ic, didnt think of that
mossy zinc
Well, dashing through them can put you unnecessarily far behind them. Their melee attack moves them forward.
heady olive
oh
mossy zinc
There's also usually more than one enemy.
And dashing through them doesn't work in the first place if you have Tidal Dash.
mossy zinc
same, sometimes I get the dash animation and still get hit
You're invincible during the animation from the very start. There are probably some cancelable animation frames at the very end that look like Zagreus ending his empty dash that don't have invincibility. But I expect what happens in those situations if you watched your recording is that you got hit before your dash started. Keep in mind there is some input lag, too.
gaunt fiber
Yeah last frames don't have invicibility imo
Input lag should be almost negligible, I need to be more precise on EM4 probably
Sometimes I die in the middle or at the end of a dash, rare but happens
gaunt fiber
regardless, wouldnt dashing through them be faster than moving around them
It's usually faster, you can be at melee range with a good timing
ashen garnet
I feel like its frame 2 or something but I have no evidence to back that up
Same, but it could be input lag or the game queuing the dash when you are hit
true fable
yeah if youre gaming you can hit them during their ranged
when they lift their shield up
heady olive
wow i ran out of time in elysium even though i got shop and patroclus ._. but i had enough time to win lol
i wanna move on to 50 now, is AP2 fine on rama?
or is RI better
gaunt fiber
I would sat that Rama can deal with AP2 but AP1 is just really comfy
spice lava
Both are fine
AP1 requires to add JS or CP on your pact but because your stuff/DPS will be better in exchange, it's okay
JS might make Tart and Elysium more tense to clear in 5 min each however
honest kernel
I prefer ap1 on it
spice lava
So to remove 1 lvl of AP, it could be JS3 which is tricky if the rooms have a lot of foes, or JS2 + CP1 which is a little bit smoother because of the better stuff compensation
spice lava
Rama doesn't care about JS if you have experience
honest kernel
thats fair I suppose
spice lava
I mean
honest kernel
rama dmg gets so stupid I had a good time w it on max js and cp tbh
spice lava
We tend to talk about the aspects at 50 from an experienced point of view so I prefer to say the pros and cons
Especially with new people interested by it
spice lava
That part will never change even for us
honest kernel
I mean Im also pretty new to 50 tbh 😌
spice lava
gaunt fiber
Me too 
heady olive
rama dmg gets so stupid I had a good time w it on max js and cp tbh
oo, ill try max js then
spice lava
According to your 45 clear, if you're already used to JS2, JS3 isn't a big jump
heady olive
yea haha i just looked at it
so i need 4 more heat, if i take AP1 i still need 2 heat though
spice lava
4 more heat?
heady olive
if i take JS3 that is
spice lava
Oh gotcha
Could be RI1
You won't be able to reroll as much but still start with more hp and gold
solemn pulsar
losing dark foresight suuuucks
heady olive
yea dark foresight is strong :(
mossy zinc
I haven't had difficulty with JS3 with Rama from day 1.
I don't think you need a lot of experience to make "pew-pew everything with Special once then kaboom everything with one Attack" work.
RI0 AP1 is fine at 50.
RI1+ makes things a lot harder.
AP2 leaves a lot to RNG.
heady olive
RI0 AP1 is fine at 50.
i dont think i can get RI0 AP1 at 50 can i
unless i miscalculated the heat
mossy zinc
I did RI0 AP1 at 51. Sure you can do it at 50.
heady olive
is that with EM4?
mossy zinc
Yes.
heady olive
ah
mossy zinc
AP1 at the end of the run can have a build almost as strong as AP0.
heady olive
time to learn hades boss fight then
mossy zinc
But AP2 will give you way worse builds than AP1 or AP0.
heady olive
btw, how do i play with AP1
if the boon i want to take gets crossed out what should i do
honest kernel
time to do rama 53 to annoy nya >:)
you cry
idk you just gotta deal with not getting what you want
heady olive
oh, does rerolling not work
honest kernel
it does
mossy zinc
I'd be happy to see you do 53.
mossy zinc
Oh wow. Nice!
honest kernel
I still dont wanna learn em4 hahah
mossy zinc
Same.
I did my 51 Rama mainly just to prove to my imposter syndrome brain that maybe m a failure but I can at least get to EM4 with an EM4 pact and then die miserably there.
But then I somehow lucked into Epic dashes etc. that carried me through the fight.
honest kernel
don't think I can push much higher without learning em4 though
mossy zinc
I did an EM4 pact in hell mode the other week with HL0 FO0 and died in phase 1 or 2 at 15 or 16 Heat with Rama.
honest kernel
mossy zinc
Tbf with the right build, you don't need to seriously learn the fight even at 50+.
Mostly that includes +3 dashes lol.
mossy zinc
Also luck into good adds.
I think he summoned Doomstone in my run, so that prevents any further summons if you just keep that and some shards alive.
honest kernel
thats pretty cool
mossy zinc
Because there are too many enemies already on the current map.
So he does the summon animation in phase 1 part 3, but the second group of summons never appears.
And also I think I used summon or Call to burst down phase 2 part 2 in order to skip the Cerberus summon there? I don't remember tbh if I did that in that run.
But those are like my strategies for the fight.
honest kernel
I see
mossy zinc
The rest is just idk I just wing it and die lol.
honest kernel
I need to look at the fight in general again if i wanna do it bc I havent done it in so long
just remember that it got dark and I couldnt see
mossy zinc
Gotta try to always keep Hades on your screen, so you don't get hit with a spear throw from off-screen.
honest kernel
and he healed
mossy zinc
Yeah.
Rama can deal with the healing very easily.
Just gotta use special to destroy urns.
solemn pulsar
I think he summoned Doomstone in my run, so that prevents any further summons if...
last time i tried EM4 rama I was not so lucky with the summons
pseudo kernel
lmao
heady olive
athena dash is life
devout quiver
Who would win
3 megagorgons and a dad or one speedy son
spoilers. Not the speedy son
heady olive
oof
past moss
True Finale is some serious Blood and Darkness
honest kernel
screw em4 all my homies hate em4
honest kernel
gets it boiling
solemn pulsar
yeah so many skulls
tidal flame
Pots
edgy arrow
em4 is great
very fun to watch other people do it
doing it myself is fun in the same way fresh file is fun
honest kernel
last time I dashed through cerb but dunno if thats consistent
honest kernel
is athena still worth on ap2
hmmm
kinda dont like her that much with artemis start too
chance of getting that dd is pretty low
honest kernel
ok I got to elysium on 55, then got explosive and died very cool
my time was super good too
next acorn
rip
heady olive
oof
true fable
i like athena start a lot
just because youre guaranteed a core
but without start i think she loses a lot of value
heady olive
huh does she not give a core if u dont start with her
merry otter
waxen relic
Well there's a guaranteed core/replace offered later too, but it's likely crossed out
gaunt fiber
is athena still worth on ap2
No
heady olive
true, but with AP the starting boon that u want could be crossed out too
waxen relic
Not too much work to get the right starting boon
gaunt fiber
Except on no RI maybe. But if you're thinking about owl pendant in Asphodel, I don't think it's any good
waxen relic
Because of the only one Athena in Asphodel expectation ;)
honest kernel
yeah I tried owl asphodel
on rama I def want artemis start on ap2 so theres that
guess I'll stick to money in asphodel
or tooth maybe
lernie sucks when I get mean heads
waxen relic
Hourglass in Asphodel is a nice meme
If you get to buy sth good you keep it to heroes
honest kernel
I rarely use well items other than kiss and force chaos tbh
heady olive
i like the centaur heart for hp but that almost never appears
honest kernel
that one is ok too
gaunt fiber
Nail of Talos and Stygian shards are good
honest kernel
what did shard do again
gaunt fiber
Trap damage
gaunt fiber
For aspho yeah. It's not an instant buy though, but if you have the money you'll get some value
waxen relic
There's some good stuff sometimes, shame that money is so limited.
gaunt fiber
Same for Nail, it's not cheap but it's good at Lernie
honest kernel
cf2 mood
spice lava
Reminds me when Pengy showed that Hades can hurt himself with green pots
honest kernel
he can??
spice lava
Yep
next acorn
lol
gaunt fiber
Yeah for like, 30 damage
honest kernel
stonks