i'm not saying it's not smart or the best way to go about it
#h1-high-heat-strategies
true fable
ok i watch your fight first astaos
gaunt fiber
P O G G I E S
daring hedge
like this is coming from the guy who hardly ever remembers to actually block with any shield
i am not claiming any high ground lol
solar maple
also man really didn't use meg and would have died to timer in 2 seconds LMAO
what a tragedy that would have been
unique zephyr
Tried drunken strike fists, for some reason it's not as good as I expected so far
mossy zinc
"It's over, Anakin! I have the high ground!"—Fox McCloud, Star Fox: Return of the Barrel Roll
mossy zinc
Tried drunken strike fists, for some reason it's not as good as I expected so fa...
For some reason, you expected it to be good. 
gaunt fiber
What is it not good
unique zephyr
I was trying AP1 and thought it may need less boons than Zeus
because Zeus wants Jolted and other things
gaunt fiber
I cleared 40 with it because I was like "yeah should be good"
unique zephyr
also I was avoiding Dio's boons except call and Vintage
and wanted to give him a chance
mossy zinc
It's just worse Curse of Agony.
gaunt fiber
But it's purple
unique zephyr
also I saw people using drunken strike on sword
so I assumed it would be even better on fists
gaunt fiber
Lmao
daring hedge
busy eating pain au chocolat on the side 😔
gaunt fiber
Too hard for baby hands
true fable
lightning strike fists is just good
gaunt fiber
busy eating pain au chocolat on the side 😔
Lmao
unique zephyr
lightning strike fists is just good
Yeah I concluded I'll pretty much always go Zeus start
true fable
curse of agony fists needs dire misfortune
lightning strike needs jolted
pick your poison
mossy zinc
Retrash starts Coin Purse and somehow happens to win with Drunken Strike. Doesn't make Drunken Strike a good choice on Stygius.
true fable
i think its pretty good for high heat
my 50 nem clear was with it
granted that was also coin purse start
daring hedge
repulse shot is very good
daring hedge
i timed that message so well
gaunt fiber
Lmao
daring hedge
i can frame you for agreeing
true fable
this is what edits are for
gaunt fiber
Nice
unique zephyr
Just to make sure, AP1 > RI1 right?
even though AP1 is more obvious in how it screws you over
gaunt fiber
Yeah
daring hedge
RI is usually none or 2
mossy zinc
At what Heat are we talking about AP vs RI?
daring hedge
1 is a weird place reserved to big maybes at very very high heat
true fable
yes
unique zephyr
just learn EM3 imo
I need to learn Asterius mini boss specifically
gaunt fiber
I see
true fable
your bull rush charges are held for too long
unique zephyr
because he's the one that kills me
true fable
sometimes to block but sometimes becasue you are scared
unique zephyr
but yeah the EM3 pact is better
mossy zinc
EM3 Malphon can be quite brutal if your build didn't come together up to that point to burst through it.
true fable
i think learning the fight is good though
unique zephyr
can you link your malphon build guide again
true fable
great test to see if youve internalized malphon mechanics
daring hedge
lightning strike without jolted fists is very sad without other sources by elysium
just cannot keep up
pseudo kernel
The pain is unspeakable
gaunt fiber
Lmao
mossy zinc
Indescribablo.
unique zephyr
So this is my fists pact, is there anything wrong with it?
HL5
LC4
CF1
EM3
BP2
MM
UC
FO2
HS
DC2
TD3
for 40 heat
mossy zinc
Looks fine.
honest kernel
mossy zinc
Wut. 💕
unique zephyr
Looks fine.
OK, time to git gud, I am just now returning to high heat because I have been sick the last 2 days
and I finally maxed all keepsakes and have 100% cheevos
mossy zinc
Can hardly call that a return after 2 days lol. But good to hear you're well now.
unique zephyr
It felt so long to be fair
but I am glad I'm better, it was from the covid shot
I watched one of bablo's streak videos and he said taking Chaos in Tartarus can be bad because it takes up HP, for TD3 is this still true
or is the free room more important
Bablo's streak used TD2
unique zephyr
Special feels a lot less useful with damage control on though
honest kernel
because I dont actually want to learn fists 👼
unique zephyr
I may just go ME lol
honest kernel
this also workd
unique zephyr
m losing my faith in you, <@266732686838595606>. <:squirtooh:456913427240189965>
Because of ME or running DC
You did say my pact was fine
for fists
honest kernel
td2 is also better for streaks
daring hedge
because I dont *actually* want to learn fists 👼
high heat fists lesson: empty dash sometimes
that's it
mossy zinc
Then you know my answer.
honest kernel
wym empty dash
honest kernel
uh
daring hedge
so you get iframes to dodge dangerous stuff
honest kernel
I think I do that already
unique zephyr
thanks for the reminder I have been careless
daring hedge
i'm being facetious but also that kind of is one of the most important things
if you do that frequently you're on the right track really
unique zephyr
since dash attacking and dash upper is good on fists it's easy to autopilot and forget
mossy zinc
I called it empy dash because of empty jumps in fighting games, and now everyone is doing it. All according to plan.
honest kernel
lol
unique zephyr
any EM3 fists tips
honest kernel
go ham
unique zephyr
I did EM2 for 32 heat lol
mossy zinc
Get Divine Dash lol.
solar maple
I don't think I heard you use it before I started using it, but yeah I use the term because of empty jumps in fighting games as well
daring hedge
blade dash though
unique zephyr
Someday I won't have to rely on the crutch dash for 40 heat, but today is not that day
honest kernel
I had no dash on that
unique zephyr
gilga high heat sounds miserable
mossy zinc
Dash just before Asterius slams the ground to deflect his slam and negate the shockwave.
honest kernel
its not a crutch its just moving the odds into your favour
mossy zinc
So you can go back in immediately for damage.
honest kernel
lady luck approves
quartz mantle
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/470323803625619466/824738083378823229/ave...
amazing
Also I just realized your pfp is from Dicey Dungeon
honest kernel
the rougelike competition
quartz mantle
Honestly a better deck builder than Slay the Spire don't @ me
honest kernel
ur on thin ice
mossy zinc
Don't whiff charged Dash-Uppers when Asterius is hopping around, wait for him to recover and stand still. Whiffing your Gigacutters wastes so much time.
mossy zinc
I don't think I heard you use it before I started using it, but yeah I use the t...
First mention of empty dash in the server. #h1-high-heat-strategies message
Like Toffel said, there's no such thing as a crutch in Hades.
If it's effective, use it to your advantage.
And if you think it's too easy, add more heat.
eager vortex
turns out having heartbrek strike and an epic chaos boon
doesn't carry arthur's dmg all the way to the end
sadness
mossy zinc
Excalibur DPS sucks.
I really like playing Excalibur, but not if I have to speedrun it.
eager vortex
yea the dmg starts falling really hard in ely
eager vortex
damage always matters
unique zephyr
I was more so being pithy about how Arthur has a hard time hitting FO2 enemies
And recovery means it’s harder to avoid damage
eager vortex
it's easy to cheese with arthur
just use the special, get behind the aura
watch enemies trying to come at you like idiots
pick them off
especially works good in ely
gaunt fiber
Yeah the holy ground makes them dance
eager vortex
I could finish this run but I got bored with the dmg
final swing deals 492
yawn
I feel like some aspects need a slight buff
but I guess that's not happening
unique zephyr
If there were too frequent balance changes on the other hand we’d have to constantly adapt
Which can be annoying
Which aspects do you think need a buff?
unique zephyr
The special should actually do something, yeah
solemn pulsar
Even guan yu needs some attack adjustments
gaunt fiber
Guan Yu needs an attack yes
eager vortex
gilga, luci, gy, arthur
gaunt fiber
I want a deflecting whirlwind
solemn pulsar
Chaos shield needs to behave better
gaunt fiber
but yeah
solemn pulsar
Icy flare needs to not suck
solar maple
lol
gaunt fiber
LUL
unique zephyr
How do we fix zag sword
solar maple
zag sword doesn't really need fixing IMO. It doesn't have to be good
solemn pulsar
Because spear has nothing good outside of hammers
Sword has dash strike and the special is a good move
unique zephyr
And range I guess
solemn pulsar
Spear is bereft of anything useful
solar maple
even the first 2 hits of zag sword basic attack or sort of ok
eager vortex
1 - make maim actually worth something
2 - luci's attack is so damn bad
3 - gy is still not that great for the disadvantage it gives, still a challenge aspect
4 - arthur is too low dps to be worth the damn slow
5 - chaos shield is zag shield with lower damage, do something about it
6 - zag spear is discount guan yu, make it better
7 - there is absolutely no reason to pick zag sword over nemesis
I can go on
solar maple
15% damage pog
unique zephyr
How do I be good at guan yu? I want to try 32 heat guan yu sometime
Seems fun
All I know is guan yu has a good special
And you can dash strike cancel
eager vortex
beo, chiron, nemesis, eris, hestia, demeter, achilles those are very good
rama too, even tho I suck at it
zeus shield as well
I'm just saying there could be a slight balancing
unique zephyr
Like Toffel said, there's no such thing as a crutch in Hades.
Why did you say you were losing faith in me when I mentioned ME then
Although the reason I don’t like ME is because it sucks if you whiff
And Ares is in your god pool
I don’t like massive high rolls
If I have good enough damage semi consistently that’s good enough for me
true fable
all spears are kind of funny to rank
because 3/4 of them are probably bottom 10 aspects that become top 10 aspects with 1 hammer
unique zephyr
Hades spear doesn’t even get flurry jab either
true fable
and then the other one becomes like a top 5-6ish with two hammers
true fable
charged skewer is a broken ass hammer that is outweighed by how bad base spear special is
and then you just get explosive launcher and everything is ok
eager vortex
with charged skewer and appropriate boons
see, when you are talking about spears you need to mention them with a hammer
gaunt fiber
charged skewer is a broken ass hammer that is outweighed by how bad base spear s...
yes
it's just way too much power compared to the others on GY
but that's because GY special is really good
And on others spears, lol
solemn pulsar
How would that work
Just for the duration of the special it’s stronger?
Infinity?
bronze viper
unique zephyr
so I'm trying to learn the dash strike to dash upper combo and how do I get hte dash upper to come out consistently after the dash strike?
like most of the time it either doesn't come out or comes out as the normal upper
but I have gotten a few times where the combo did come out
@mossy zinc you mentioend this combo in your demeter guide, is the timing meant to be pretty strict on this combo and how necessary is knowing this combo to clear 40 heat?
shy gulch
i usually just do a dash strike and then slide my finger over from attack to special
the timing is a tad strict imo
for clearing 40 heat, though, tbh you dont really need it? i didnt learn how to do it well until recently
of course it'll help, as being good mechanically always will, but its not necessary
solar maple
it is especially important for ME builds with no divine dash
useful otherwise, but not essential
unique zephyr
i usually just do a dash strike and then slide my finger over from attack to spe...
When I try this sometimes a regular punch after the dash strike comes out
shy gulch
it is especially important for ME builds with no divine dash
this, basically
and idk just work on the timing then? you might be holding onto attack a split second too long
hard to really say what to do, its mostly something you gotta feel out i think
unique zephyr
I may just leave fists 40 for later, hopefully Beo 40 is easier
what's the Beo 40 EM4 pact again
although my usual EM3 40 pact may work out
gaunt fiber
but you could like EM4 if you want to lower CF LUL
unique zephyr
Beo handles JS pretty well right?
solar maple
yeah beo handles JS great
gaunt fiber
it's a really strong aspect I like it
solar maple
it has the 2nd highest heat clear of any aspect 👀
solar maple
so the nice things about charged shot are mostly: higher rush damage, faster animation, piercing
the downsides are: easier to lose casts, less invincibility, and you get cornered more due to not being able to rush out of bad situations
unique zephyr
so that's why I've been taking so much damage
solar maple
with charged shot you have to play a bit more like a "traditional weapon"
it's like rama but your charge animation blocks haha
the damage increase is very nice, and it has the potential to speed up rooms quite a lot
I do find myself dying to bosses more with it though
slow ridge
so I'm at 16 heat with Stygius but can't win it
I had a mad built with aspect of zag, lambent plume, with athena on attack annd rapid attack hammer
so it was literally like a lightsaber build
but couldn't win against hades... any good builds for stygius?
I think I burned out my chances of rolling exit wounds for art so the aspect of poseidon is out lol
unique zephyr
You don’t need exit wounds for aspect of Poseidon
slow ridge
well right, but that's my typical go to build
unique zephyr
Just a pommed up Athena cast on Poseidon is fine especially for 16
Exit wounds is more so additional damage from dislodging casts than a build
honest kernel
https://gyazo.com/b70dd99a8e63cc1d2696caf03a8b7131 AP2 is a fun and interesting pact 🙂
Died to Theseus' grenade on that one. I usually don't get hit by them. Gonna have to get back into shape for EM3 Heroes
halcyon flame
how do i actually build talos
slow ridge
@dim crown damn I cleared out tisiphone in record time with that
halcyon flame
no idea how to build talos so blizzard shot it is? i gotta get it out of the way somehow
honest kernel
Curse of Drowning, Blizzard Shot, Merciful End are the talos builds I've seen
Yes, Merciful End counts, all the fists can do it well
honest kernel
It's ok. Underwhelming, IMO, but it's what Talos can do outside of the regular fists builds
Blizzard Shot doesn't lodge
At 'least, from what I remember
Honestly Talos could be defined as "underwhelming". It's bonus doesn't practically do much. Pull is cute, but it doesn't quite have enough range or pull power to matter too much. 50% damage on cast is cool for the debuff, but 50% attack damage is just so bad. Best you can do is Artemis attack with Heavy Knuckles, and that's ... ok. Basically a cursed version of Zag Shield
Concentrated Knuckles could do some work, maybe ? Possible Roiling Knuckles as well. It just doesn't do as much as you'd expect
slow ridge
@unique zephyr yo thanks, just completed a run... actually got exit wounds anyyways
was full DD with skelly's tooth, prob coiuld have taken hades with EM4
spice lava
Huh
halcyon flame
for how praised it is, ME has pitiful dps when it doesn't have impending doom to supercharge it
devout quiver
3rd pom is only +1 damage 
spice lava
I know for sure with special but scaling isn't the same for atk
Epic curse of agony is flat 100 so it's rare or common
But only 101 after 2 lvl... It's sad
halcyon flame
doom has pretty sad pom scaling
but on the bright side that means that you have to invest no more than 1-2 poms into it
unique zephyr
But that means rarity matters a lot
And you can’t run both god’s pride and god’s legacy 😦
halcyon flame
doom has nutty rarity scaling though ngl
epic is straight up twice as strong as common
spice lava
Well, at high heat that doesn't matter if RI2 is activated 😏
God's pride and God's legacy increase chances, but it's not 0 if you don't have them
shy gulch
idk i find curse of agony scales pretty well up to like the 4th or 5th pom
though the rarity is huge when it comes to damage, common is jsut so sad
daring hedge
yeah the morale decrease / boost from common to epic respectively is wild
common makes me want to reset right after getting it
halcyon flame
i like rare/epic curse of agony but i also like getting ME as soon as possible
at least impending doom makes it exponentially stronger
maybe if i didn't waste all my rerolls on worthless junk i woulda gotten impending doom but it still ended in a win screen so whatever 😐
spice lava
Even with impending, if the lvl up of curse of agony is too low the bonus dmg is sad
halcyon flame
i'm just gonna do ME for gilga anyway so here's to hoping i get impending this time
bright mango
common makes me want to reset right after getting it
Exactly lol
Even with deadly strike where it does not matter
I just feel bad
daring hedge
lol for me i don't mind common deadly
bright mango
I like purpy purpy
daring hedge
but i'm just so used to getting it with rama runs
halcyon flame
at least getting common arty boons usually don't make me die inside
halcyon flame
they hardly scale with rarity
bright mango
I just feel better
solemn pulsar
Dash and mark are great rarity scaling
bright mango
Don’t hate
solemn pulsar
And flourish
honest kernel
its meh
unique zephyr
would epic splash dash be better
bright mango
Good pom scaling as well
unique zephyr
it's up against splash dash
bright mango
On Hunter dash and mark
unique zephyr
but I do want to keep dash open for athena
honest kernel
if you want athena dash leave it open yeah
bright mango
With beo you don’t really need athena dash lol
edgy arrow
splash dash bad on beo
bright mango
@eager vortex how are you getting these 50’s so fast👀
Teach me your secrets
I would just take shoals yeah
It does damage
edgy arrow
yeah
unique zephyr
is unyielding defense a good hammer for beo
halcyon flame
thought i'd do splash dash gilga just to see how it holds up in 32 heat
so far i've had some really good boon luck lol
edgy arrow
*charged shot is definitely a double edged sword; you lose a fair bit of safety
you do so much damage it’s pretty much always worth it tho
outside of EM4 anyway
bright mango
You gain safety with sudden right?
edgy arrow
argh
bright mango
You lose it with charged
edgy arrow
yeah lol
bright mango
Ok lol
edgy arrow
wrote the wrong thing, thanks
edgy arrow
it doesn’t seem risky until you die 15 times in a row to EM4 with it
edgy arrow
nice!
halcyon flame
the real splash dash was the friends we made along the way
anyways i'm only one aspect down
edgy arrow
wouldn’t grape flavoured boons be dio boons tho
bright mango
With charged shot you lose your billion i frame bull rush
bright mango
Pseudo’s words
edgy arrow
the fact that it’s still safer than most weapons is beside the point lol
it’s a reduction in safety regardless
mossy zinc
No, that's exactly my point lol.
Charged Shot DPS is insane with the safety it still provides.
spice lava
I assume it's because the hammer changes basically your main sequence to deal DPS so if you're not used to it that becomes dangerous
edgy arrow
it’s really just an EM4 issue
edgy arrow
or you do my secret pro strat and yolo the anvil hoping to swap it out
bright mango
🧠
bright mango
Yeah but you just kinda die at em4 with it
mossy zinc
A coward dies a thousand deaths.
edgy arrow
i have big brain and smol skillz what can i say
daring hedge
Yeah but you just kinda die at em4 with it
i love charged shot on em4
mossy zinc
A true gamer ™️ appears.
daring hedge
a real rama gamer
bright mango
Lmaoo
halcyon flame
tail did 60 heat unseeded
mossy zinc
A ramer.
halcyon flame
his word is law
mossy zinc
Not one of these cowards scared of Charged Shot. 
bright mango
The thing is, em4 doesn’t become harder with charged shot. It just becomes as hard as the rest of the aspects
spice lava
Because you really want the charge movement to replace yourself, right?
mossy zinc
As hard as the rest of the aspects? They don't have an 80 base damage attack that blocks.
bright mango
You just lose all the mobility while being invincible that beo provides normally
I love charged shot, but it makes clearing em4 not as easy for me
unique zephyr
With charged shot you lose your billion i frame bull rush
Wait bull rush gives I frames?
Does it give I frames for most of the rush?
I’d guess so since I don’t remember being hit mid rush but want to be sure
bright mango
Yes you can’t get hit while holding out a shield
mossy zinc
The timing for Dash-Attack > Dash-Upper on Malphon is pretty lenient.
Just gotta hit Special right after Attack.
bright mango
They’re talking about the bullrush
mossy zinc
Why did you say you were losing faith in me when I mentioned ME then
Don't turn to the dark side.
He was asking me about the combo in a ping.
unique zephyr
Is it very quickly after?
mossy zinc
Very quickly is relative. There's no particular delay, though.
Like don't wait for any timing, just press it right after.
Just gonna have to practice it for a bit. Might take a couple days to be consistent with it.
halcyon flame
mossy zinc
DM a mod if you just got timed out.
You can post two image links in one message, by the way. Helps with that.
mossy zinc
Congratulations!
halcyon flame
time to stop avoiding 40 heat i guess 
unique zephyr
40 heat with your favorite aspect could be fun
mossy zinc
All options to avoid 40 Heat.
halcyon flame
you know what i'll just do 50 heat
unique zephyr
I feel like sub 7 would take way longer than 40 heat to be able to do
mossy zinc
50 Heat is a way to avoid 40 Heat. Very good.
No, sub 7 is faster than any time you'd get at 40 Heat.
halcyon flame
sub 7 is around the same level as 51+ heat
unique zephyr
Blightning, a speed runner, said that I could do sub 10 if I grinded enough
They said if I could do 40 heat then I’m physically capable of sub 10
mossy zinc
Sure. You could also do 60 Heat if you grinded enough.
halcyon flame
i can't do sub 10
mossy zinc
Sub 10 might be easier.
halcyon flame
not now at least
unique zephyr
I only got sub 15 once
halcyon flame
the closest i ever got was with a sub 7 or 6 build with nem
unique zephyr
Beo 32 heat
mossy zinc
You probably could, but low frame rate makes that less fun, I would think.
unique zephyr
Is most of speedrunning just mechanical execution after I know the tricks and free rooms
halcyon flame
You probably could, but low frame rate makes that less fun, I would think.
true. maybe i'll set it to 1280x720. i may not be able to see a thing but at least it's at 60 fps
i still can't believe i never bothered to lower the resolution until 3 months in
mossy zinc
I play in a 720p window because I broke my monitor and can't see the lower right corner, so I wouldn't be able to see my resources in fullscreen. 
After you know what tricks?
It's decision making, awareness, and execution.
halcyon flame
all 3 skills i totally lack
mossy zinc
Knowing chamber layouts and stuff.
It's a lot of small things like do you buy pom here, what do you pom, do you reroll pom, what keepsake do you take with the build you have now, etc.
That's like just for the build and reward decisions.
mossy zinc
Then there's the decisions you make in a room like as soon as you enter, where are you going to check for spawns? Do you kill them right away or do you kite and aggro other spawns first before you engage?
Then it's knowing the fastest way to kill things (which can change as your build develops), manipulating enemies into crowds that you can AOE, etc.
mossy zinc
It will help you in high heat.
mossy zinc
Absolutely.
halcyon flame
if i can do sub 12 all weapons and you can do 40 heat you can absolutely by all means do sub 15 all weapons
solemn pulsar
if you've cleared all weapons on TD3 on any amount of high-ish heat
then sub 15 is trivial
neat sonnet
very true
wintry peak
Is aiming for Smoldering Air and Zeus Call a good strat for 32 heat on all aspects?
mossy zinc
Yes.
bright mango
For sure
wintry peak
Thanks! 32 heat using sword sounds like a nightmare. Hoping I could cheese it with Smoldering lol
wintry peak
Sounds good. Thanks for the tip 🙂
mossy zinc
If the aspect is really good, also go for Second Wind.
halcyon flame
billowing if possible
if all else fails, sigil will save you at hades. totally. absolutely.
mossy zinc
Billowing Strength depends on what else is offered.
wintry peak
just do ME
Yeah I might aim for ME using fists
Lucifer at 32 heat sounds like a nightmare too damn
mossy zinc
It's not. Lucifer is decent.
halcyon flame
zag fists can just go smoldering + second wind i guess
lucifer 32 was easy
unless you don't get triple bomb
demeter can go with divine strike + deadly flourish for deadly reversal
safe and deals great damage to bosses. you can go with lightning strike for dps + potential smoldering air but it's a lot less safe
wintry peak
I see. Some good insights. Thanks guys!
halcyon flame
talos honestly just do ME i have no idea how to build it myself lmao
gilga make sure you have gods' pride in the mirror, and ruthless since you can easily proc it with 3 dashes. gods' pride should net you epic greatest reflex which is the #1 hermes boon to get on gilga since my recommendation is get splash dash and just build around it
kill enemies by dashing into them lmao
wintry peak
yeah I always default to god's pride. I can reliably get duos and legendary with it on tbh.
splash dash gilga sounds fun lmao
halcyon flame
don't get your hopes too high up though, this run was stupidly lucky
rare greatest reflex is good enough but common is not worth it for this build. just go for hyper sprint if you get common greatest reflex offered
wintry peak
I see. Thanks!
eager vortex
this game kinda hard
halcyon flame
high heat moment
honest kernel
I keep ragequitting with the sword lmao
gaunt fiber
which one?
honest kernel
nem
honest kernel
nah im doing 24x40
gaunt fiber
oh
bright mango
I feel the same about doing super soaker at 45
honest kernel
missing nem and zaguis
bright mango
It’s impossible
gaunt fiber
Reset for dedge
honest kernel
good idea
bright mango
Or seed it
honest kernel
I already made it to hades twice but kept dying
gaunt fiber
I'd go Heart rend and athena dds
gaunt fiber
yeah a bit
gaunt fiber
Yeah you'll get used to it at some point
bright mango
Or do the smoldering poseidon call strat
gaunt fiber
for example I learnt that you could not always dash strike
bright mango
Start aphro attack
gaunt fiber
sometimes you gotta be careful
true fable
i like starting athena
get dash or special
its p good
you can go for ME or DR based on natural gods
gaunt fiber
The bright special
bright mango
Nemesis crit probably carries it though tartarus
true fable
it needs survivability
bright mango
Exactly yeah
honest kernel
I started w artemis so far
true fable
you lose damage if you dont have good ways to approach
gaunt fiber
I thought about Athena start on Arthur
true fable
you get good ways to approach through dd and df
gaunt fiber
But I prefer the weak early on and owl in aspho
gaunt fiber
It's my fav on Arthur so far
true fable
your damage kind of falls off a cliff somewhere in elysium
honest kernel
arthur was ez for me
gaunt fiber
I've tried Artemis, Aphro and plume so far
honest kernel
bc its actually a good weapon
honest kernel
I will bully nem now
true fable
if youre going deadly strike start it kind of really wants pwave or dedge start IMO
gaunt fiber
yeah
honest kernel
imma try athena then thx
halcyon flame
if youre going deadly strike start it kind of really wants pwave or dedge start ...
is wave affected by attack boons?
honest kernel
its good aoe I like it
true fable
no but its a piercing 30 dmg that gets increased by global mods
its incredibly good on nem which doesnt need the help from breaching to pierce armor most of the time
breaching/pwave is mostly personal pref tho for second hammer
halcyon flame
i'm always super torn between anti-armor stuff being good or not
bright mango
I love it
halcyon flame
on one hand it may be irrelevant since i already tear through armor really fast, on the other hand it makes me tear through that faster
bright mango
I know that most people do not agree, but I prefer breaching over shadow on arthur
bright mango
It just gets rid of the armor on scary enemies really really quickly
honest kernel
I always underrestiamted anti armor hammers but they do so much work tbh
they save so much time in some cases
halcyon flame
my brain tend to just switch from "anti armor good" to "anti armor meh" at random
do i want that nail from the well or do i not? do i need it? how much does it help me?
honest kernel
oh I never buy nail idk
bright mango
I mean it’s global damage right?
halcyon flame
yeah it is
but it still doesn't seem that interesting
as absurdly helpful as it actually may be
bright mango
I like all armor damage buffs
Ez lernie heads
BP enemies are not so much of a problem anymore
mossy zinc
@honest kernel my Nemesis strat is to just get so much Attack/Dash-Strike damage that everything just melts and I don't have to deal with anything.
honest kernel
so its me
mossy zinc
Heart Rend.
halcyon flame
have you tried not pressing attack mid-dash
mossy zinc
well I guess I shouldnt die to hades next time
What was the timer when you died?
honest kernel
not 0 I died to being reckless for sure
mossy zinc
I suspect you were just playing the fight too reckless, yeah.
honest kernel
well when im dodging things im not dash striking ofc
mossy zinc
Can take a bit to get used to that fight with sword.
honest kernel
its a trip for sure
honest kernel
@mossy zinc turns out the best way to play nem was not to play nem...
oh yeah i got 4-sacked 
and I accidently bought the wrong item in one shop
cursed
mossy zinc
Congratulations! 💕
honest kernel
sword hammers suck word
hearty onyx
Good old smoldering air
halcyon flame
we all know exit wounds carried 😤
mossy zinc
Oh yeah, I guess I forgot to mention get Smoldering Air. I thought that's implied when it's me talking. That's all my runs.
halcyon flame
congrats on the 40 heat clear!
honest kernel
I wanted to go for heart rend but zeus just came to me in tart and said "hey kid, want some lightning?"
hearty onyx
My desire to get smoldering air often conflicts with me wanting God's Pride
halcyon flame
heartbreak strike on nem is probably still the next best thing
it still has 30% crits
honest kernel
yeah it was pretty good with ddedge
mossy zinc
What do you mean "next best". It's the best. 
halcyon flame
oh don't worry, aphrodite still plays a big role in heart rend anyway
mossy zinc
Why would I worry.
bright mango
Nice job toffel!
bright mango
Yeah ME makes game ez
crimson radish
i have god mode at 80% and i keep telling myself to get rid of it but i always just find having it on and just increasing the heat to be more fun
im going to be doing 45 heat runs with god mode on at this rate lol
my highest heat non god mode is 12 and my highest heat with god mode is 32
honest kernel
jus keep doing whatever is fun for you
bright mango
fishing pauses the igt timer
eager vortex
jus keep doing whatever is fun for you
couldn't agree moar
spice lava
fishing pauses the igt timer
Not for me https://youtu.be/w4B6KRx1b1E
spice lava
I know 😂
I was so surprised that I missed the fish when I found out the timer was still running
spice lava
During 1 week after this I was scared of fishing during a 50 heat run 😂
unique zephyr
Got to dad on Beo 40, then died lol
still further than I ever got with fists 40 so far
solar maple
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/778725540643340312/833063638658842654/Screen_Shot_2021-04-17_at_12.37.09_PM.png "seeded" nem 50 -- seeded for drunken strike because I was testing it out and tired of resetting for AP2, then just lucked into dedge in tart lmao
also dedge nem is fast. This was a 4 sack
also my classic 384 hp
hoary pasture
Very nicely done
hoary pasture
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/828345223180583002/833066428181643274/123.png the disrespect is real
solar maple
lol
I did my rail 50 on my non hell mode save, and most of my 40 heat clears
the only weapon pb of mine that is actually that low is bow
where I think my heat pb is like 15
all the others are 40+
never mind it's 12 for bow LMAO
hoary pasture
50 bow when
hoary pasture
lol
I want to redo my Rama 40
Everything clearing 40 heat in 17-18 minutes then there is my Rama clear going overtime on TD2
solar maple
yeah going fast with rama is a bit weird. Takes some getting used to
I pretty much never play with TD2 myself though, it just feels too weird haha
I either go fast or I die
hoary pasture
Yea I was trying TD3 but just ended up dying so often, so I was like ill just use TD2 even if I have a lot of leftover time
And then I get 4 sacked and take 28:22 or something to finish lol
It was not a good pact now that I look at it
unique zephyr
I either go fast or I die
Either way the run ends fast which works out for me better
I’m still bad at TD3 but TD3 gaming is more fun imo
TD3: converting unsuspecting players into speedrunners
I don’t know how people do EM4 + TD3 though
shy gulch
they game hard and get lucky
solar maple
all of it goes together
I got a 4 sack in my run which had a similar impact on the time as me getting double edge :p
bright mango
I just threw the spiciest nem 40 run to em4 pots
My fight was cleeeen until I decided to step in pots
I stepped in a total of 3 urns
shy gulch
all of it goes together
yeah basically this, a lot of factors can make you slower or faster regardless of your play
sacks are the most notorious, though, of course
unique zephyr
I just threw the spiciest nem 40 run to em4 pots<:bouldy:523329116934635534>
EM4 with sword is way more courage than I have right now lol
hearty onyx
EM4 with sword is way more courage than I have right now lol
I was able to manage EM4 with the sword using Aphrodite's cast of all things
edgy arrow
i love how EM4 is kinda popular these days
i’m still too much of a wimp but i appreciate y’all’s bravery
honest kernel
its tempting for sure
edgy arrow
tempting in the same way putting my hand into a blender is tempting
honest kernel
god ME is broken
died to hades anyway bc low health and sword
but that was a powertrip till then
I legit dont think I can play sword clean enough to beat maxy without a DD or touch of styx or some ridic amount of hp
otherwise he 2 shots
unique zephyr
I want to learn EM4 once I can game for longer (right now I can't because migraine health issues), I'll learn it by doing the "never turn it off" thing like how I learned FO2 by never turning it off
i am feeling better than before but I need absolute full concentration for long periods of time before I do EM4, especially since phase 3 requires me to remember Hades' location and everything else
sorry if this is too personal ol
like right now I have to do my runs segmented and it helps that even the boss fights aren't usually super long, and one daunting thing about EM4 for me is the sheer length of the fight, I sound like a baby but part of this is physical issues
honest kernel
its a valid point
the fight is really long and at the end of a run while you most likely already have failed attempts
I'm certain this is also part of why I choke at hades so often - you're just so tired at this point and the hardest part of the run is at the very end
edgy arrow
yeah there’s a lot of attrition apart from anything else
given enough time, you’re bound to screw up eventually
and that fight takes fair while
not to mention superdad doesn’t let you screw up many times
true fable
i just died to dad on 50 hera because i just had
like
no damage
was doing 500 damage per volley of casts
LOL
honest kernel
sadness
hoary pasture
rip
mossy zinc
hoary pasture
solemn pulsar
YKC got 60 heat beo
spice lava
👀
hoary pasture
damn
halcyon flame
second recorded unseeded 60 heat clear and it's beowulf
purple pash flare, snow burst and +1 cast. that's some absurd ap2 luck goddamn
solemn pulsar
but also no athena DDs
both sides of the coin
off of at least 3 athena boons (2 non core)
honest kernel
... Time to avoid Athena like the plague then, to prove I don't need those DDs
Altho, honestly, I already was doing that
Damage's low
halcyon flame
can you even get athena dds if you don't have dds to "restore" in the first place?
halcyon flame
oh yeah
honest kernel
Also the good 'ol "Pop the SD before getting Athena" strat works fine
hoary pasture
Funny to see that this is his fastest time with Shield too on that save lol
unique zephyr
@solar maple someone just got a 60 heat clear with beo
solar maple
I saw
unique zephyr
They used ruthless reflex I just noticed
How is ruthless reflex good? Seems like one dash is very hard
Hardest part of mirrorless 32 for me was adapting to single dash
solar maple
it is good with beo at very high heat because you just need the damage
mossy zinc
It's shield.
solar maple
shield also needs extra dashes way less than other weapons
blocking is good it turns out
I did RR for most of my 57+ heat attempts
mossy zinc
And you have bull rush for mobility, yeah.
honest kernel
I didn't do RR for high heat solely because I did RI3 instead
But yeah, shield doesn't need more then 1 dash
solar maple
there are a few fights where you would rather have the dash, but the extra dps is just really important for keeping up with the timer at such insane heat
50% global damage goes a long way
for example RR makes some asphodel rooms pretty miserable
hearty onyx
Am I imagining Lightning Phalanx making a big difference at high heat?
I think it helps with Jury summons but I'm not entirely sure if it makes a big enough difference to keep getting
mossy zinc
Lightning Phalanx is great at high heat and in speedruns.
It just does a ton of damage.
hearty onyx
Worth it enough to take God's Legacy to get it consistently?
mossy zinc
I don't even know what aspect you're using, no idea lol.
I like God's Legacy, anyway.
For Cast builds, God's Legacy helps you get Mirage Shot, anyway.
hearty onyx
Oh, I'm using poseidon
Attempting to get my 40 heat sword clear
Mirage shot might be too greedy but it's nice assuming I get the 4 gods necessary
honest kernel
phalanx gud
I didnt even get lightning and got the clear
but go for lightning bc its rly nice
also mirage isnt rly needed but its good to have ofc
hearty onyx
Ok, I think I have a good idea as to how my 40 heat sword run will go
40 heat fists, however...
I think I'll just reset until I get ME
mossy zinc
Mirage Shot is common at 40 Heat.
If you see one of them in Tartarus, take the other one for Asphodel.
Depends on your pacts, of course.
Cast builds don't really like CF UC RI.
Nor AP.
Even if you don't end up getting Mirage, Deadly Flourish and Tidal Dash are really good.
honest kernel
fists are easy as long as you ignore using dash upper well
honest kernel
wow
gaunt fiber
hearty onyx
Cast builds don't really like CF UC RI.
Well, that's 4 heat to take off
Perfect for Em4!
solemn pulsar
50 hera done, blessed run except for the 3 sack
crop picked up end of elysium
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1BK4y1P7EW
60 heat beo VOD
true fable
blessed
gaunt fiber
mossy zinc
Of course with the power of Lady Aphrodite. 💕
honest kernel
cool died to hades with zaguis again ;(
true fable
vibes
mossy zinc
honest kernel
I blame getting guardian crystals+chairot twice
mossy zinc
Yikes.
honest kernel
yeah that was kindof bad vibes dad posted
true fable
he really kinda vibe checked u hard
honest kernel
mossy zinc
Time to pay him back twofold!
solemn pulsar
Who mentioned in brights chat the other day the tech to make doomstone em4 add spawn its crystals to block the 2nd wave of spawns
waxen relic
Wasn't there but it ain't new
solemn pulsar
I know that, but whoever told me about it, I owe for help on that Hera clear
And that’s where I heard about it
waxen relic
nice
daring hedge
I think I did that trick for my beo 50
Such a swanky trick
Kind of did it by accident to be fair but I understood what was happening
solar maple
extra good because you took s p e a r p o i n t
which was actually good tbh
did very well over the course of the fight
solemn pulsar
Yeah it was great
solemn pulsar
Such a swanky trick
i felt so cool
solemn pulsar
which was actually good tbh
yeah i noticed in all my em4 fights whenever i took damage i took a lot of damage
i will be going through the vod to track rough damage mitigated by spearpoint
and how much acorn would have avoided
though obv i played different with the spearpoint
true fable
i think
i mentioned that
in my chat
LoL
i just got mauled on your pact cgull
triple bball summon
solar maple
whenever I checked my beo vods I pretty much always saw acorn > tooth > spearpoint, but I would believe it for sure in that run
solemn pulsar
i just got mauled on your pact cgull
Spearpoint would help with that 8j
With butterflies
Imagine if each butterfly could have DC hearts
ashen garnet
Imagine trying 32 heat Boonless and not seeing a single Kiss of Styx in 3 hours 
Maybe I should go for Fated Persuasion instead of Authority, but I really need those HPs for Dad...
Any general tips about Boonless ? Some boon choices are totally bricking runs
solemn pulsar
Personally I don’t think the “challenge” of boonless should be dodging boons, so I’d just throw a mod on to remove them
But if you want it for spreadsheet, just keep resetting until you get lucky
Not many other options
bright mango
Are you using hestia?
ashen garnet
Are you using hestia?
Still trying with the good old Talos, that's why I desperately need the HPs. Thought it would be a good way to stay in shape and git gud at dad's fight, but bricked runs are getting on my nerves
quasi zodiac
Any tips for Demeter or Talos aspects? 👀 I've read that a long time ago it was tested that the charge from Demeter didn't really mathematically hold its own on damage
warm dagger
@quasi zodiac Deadly Reversal or Merciful End
waxen relic
excuse me, but what? where did you read that?
ashen garnet
Personally I don’t think the “challenge” of boonless should be dodging boons, so...
Guess that's my next step, I need to figure out the details about Python/mods importer, it got all over the place last time I tried
quasi zodiac
excuse me, but what? where did you read that?
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nEzSL3BdOa_wrIFOMqv0hYYkU6O1opiAZNTDauPieeI/edit#heading=h.4f9b4rpw724k this guide, referencing this high heat channel
You can click aspect of demeter, but as I said, it's even before 1.0 so I wanted to know how it developed
It's really outdated
true fable
also priv status is just bad
solemn pulsar
Eh it’s ok if you can get it up for hades
true fable
this guide is incredibly outdated lol
yeah theyre saying to get it on dem fists though
solemn pulsar
And you need damage on late game fights
I mean high heat needs all the damage it can get
If you can get it it could be good elysium and onwards
Prolly not tho
Too many boons
true fable
its not worth taking blinding flash just for that +15%
its mostly just blinding flash
like
i've considered it
but like
true fable
yeah
quasi zodiac
Yeah, it doesn't differentiate between high and low heat, so that's also an issue
Besides being outdated
But since I've never used demeter, I'm curious and didn't see a guide anywhere else to learn the strength of the aspect
true fable
fists are an aspect that do fine sustained damage but need burst for big enemies and bosses
oh hey look theres a big chonky special
waxen relic
Such a long and nowadays sadly meh guide
In short what i'd do is 1. Zeus on Attack 2.good Percentage on Special, use that whenever charged 3. Jolted, Duos .. and whatever comes your way @quasi zodiac
ashen garnet
Where’s the damage lol
Shackle, Conc/Heavy, RR/Stab and going for Long in Ely most of the time. Classic Dad takes around 2:30 and if he summons armored mods able to attack from afar you are done
quasi zodiac
Awesome
Thanks @waxen relic
Wish tehre was a guide that went into the details of each aspect but wasn't outdated 😢
gaunt fiber
That's a ton of work
Pengy did a quick all aspect guide though
Nyaanyaa made a kinda deep one on Demeter
waxen relic
Guide is still in the happy days before Casting on Beo 
gaunt fiber
well you're lucky it's still recent in #h1-builds-and-combat @quasi zodiac
bright mango
gaunt fiber
bright mango
^
gaunt fiber
for dem
waxen relic
You have tons of things to take from Athena first, and after getting ME you don't need it i'd say
gaunt fiber
Nope. It would take too much time to get online (exposed from Athena)
Backstab damage is not amazing on malphon
+15% for that "risk" is not worth
Wait Bright actually said that 20 minutes ago
solemn pulsar
Yeah ME already needs 4-5 specific boons with no substitutions
Adding another is oof
true fable
the only reason you should be taking priv stat on dem fists is if youre really attached to the funny noises
or like
if youre running zeus maybe
daring hedge
or if you're hadesprof using chaos shield
solar maple
I think I used p status in my chaos 50 too lol
I do think its good for past flare beo 50 too, just to help with the em4 fight
In general, p status is only good imo if you really need help with boss dps, and intend to start with a status boon in c1
Other than that its just pretty bad
true fable
i think for high heat its a little bit weirder
like ultra high heat
theres this weird place where i think priv stat is super justifiable from like 45-50
and then 50+ it doesnt matter because RI2 sadness
LUL
also looking at that guide from earlier
they said to run special rama
LOL
solar maple
Lmao
daring hedge
true fable
"Good for special/10. Wait what? Yeah...the attack is way too slow to take advantage of the share damage. Way too slow. You can’t get Flurry Shot on Rama either, so there goes that idea. But the special fires quickly and ricochets to enemies. Get Zeus on your special and max out your potential lightning damage with his other boons and you’ll be wonderful. Hard to find a way for Privilege Status though, and you don’t want it on your attack, so call or dash. Maybe just run Family Favorite."
solar maple
Tbf I dont think the person who wrote that has ever performed a dash strike
So that's why they think the attack is too slow
When talking about all the weapons, dash striking was never mentioned once
eternal hare
all of this hurts to read
eternal hare
just think about the potential 60% global damage stonks, which hestia so desperately needs to function