#h1-high-heat-strategies
eager vortex
unique zephyr
I have trouble with TD3 and JS1 with Poseidon 40
bronze viper
He said overrated, not bad. For aspects that have free crit and easy weak Heart Rend is very good.
It's overrated heavily on Rama for instance, since putting Aphro on special is giving up damage on small targets with better gods and your heart Rend crits will basically overkill 100% of the time, including on bosses some of the time.
eager vortex
boons like zeus or dio are better for rama special right
gaunt fiber
Athena for spicy precision deflect
mossy zinc
Heart Rend Rama is good with Passion Dash.
But too much opportunity cost with Heartbreak Flourish.
bronze viper
I'm saying the extra crit damage is way overkill on most enemies.
You can see big chungus numbers but that doesn't help you clear faster/safer
eager vortex
hr is very effective on enemies with big hp
mossy zinc
Nah, Heart Rend definitely helps with clear speed on Rama. Probably not over Tidal Dash, though, but it's still very good.
bronze viper
It's extremely good on Chiron yeah.
Deadly Flourish has big damage %, and Chiron crits very consistently
eager vortex
damn lernie is so stupid hard on 40 heat with zag sword
it's the only one left for my all aspects 40+
and I am struggling
maybe I should hoard hp
eager vortex
no it's not the time
it's the need to stay close and
you know how ridiculous its head bash is
I had problems at lernie with all the swords but this takes the cake
I'ma hoard hp
yep, I was patient this time and it worked finally
guess I just rush
solar maple
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/771815559410876446/830947908240670780/Screen_Shot_2021-04-11_at_4.28.59_PM.png all shields at 50 heat!
very lucky run
at this point I was mostly just doing RI0 out of principle haha
mossy zinc
yep, I was patient this time and it worked finally
Nice! 
mossy zinc
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/771815559410876446/830947908240670780/Scr...
Congratulations!
unique zephyr
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/771815559410876446/830947908240670780/Scr...
Nice job! Why run ruthless over greater reflex?
I thought gilga was the only reason ruthless was used
mossy zinc
Because shield.
eager vortex
also my guess is ruthless goes well with js3
true fable
its mostly personal pref for shield
bright mango
^
bright mango
Wooooo
eager vortex
tho I feel like I seeded a lot by restarting instead of dying
also I feel like I haven't left much to do now
50 is just pain
let me show you what I mean btw
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/824082017662664748/830984394469933056/aspects1.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/824082017662664748/830984400136306708/aspects2.png
clears is right, times used is not
it only counts if you use it then die or complete the run
mossy zinc
tho I feel like I seeded a lot by restarting instead of dying
If you gave up to restart, that's seeded, yeah.
eager vortex
yep
I'm preparing a detailed spreadsheet showing my optimal builds for each aspect
would it be okay for me to link it when someone asks for a build for a certain aspect
unique zephyr
Does anyone have any general sword tips? I am so bad at sword
like somehow my skill with sword is way below the other weapons
bright mango
I'm preparing a detailed spreadsheet showing my optimal builds for each aspect
I’ve done that
eager vortex
I know, saw it
waxen sleet
Does anyone have any general sword tips? I am *so bad* at sword
Any Poseidon or Zeus special boons I find very useful especially with any hit twice dedaleus hammer upgrade
bright mango
Excepted to see your version
unique zephyr
anyone have tips for EM3 with fists, I had EM2 for 32 fists but I'll have EM3 for 40
mossy zinc
would it be okay for me to link it when someone asks for a build for a certain a...
Yeah, you can definitely link things like that. Mods don't have a problem with that. Just they won't pin them most likely. I think my newbie build guide only got pinned because it's very simple and is like "this is a good basis to play around with" rather than full builds like ME etc.
eager vortex
that's okay
bright mango
Yea they won’t pin it
unique zephyr
I’m kind of amazed the game has so much depth, over 300 hours and I feel like a baby learning the game in a good way 🙂
eager vortex
wait
hang on a second
I just realized I never used talos
.........
okay I'll just finish 40 with it tmrw
eager vortex
I need to have an opinion on this build for an optimal build
can't even put it to my sheet
halcyon flame
how do i say "32 heat all weapons" without uhh.. spoiling it
is "h___" a good way of censoring it lol
halcyon flame
also i should probably stop asking about this stuff here when spoilers are already allowed in #h1-discussion 
mossy zinc
I've seen plenty of reddit posts that had Heat in the title.
shy plinth
You can use the word heat
halcyon flame
my first 32 heat beo clear https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/761220441049661442/831040395077091368/ha4ymlhagos61.png
brings me back to a time when i inherently thought trippy flare was better than flood, for some reason
also when i thought cf2 was fine for cast aspects
honest kernel
So
Fricking
Close
I could have lived through the timer
but I goofed earlier in the fight
Took two swipes I shouldn't have
halcyon flame
61 unseeded is within reach 
honest kernel
Timer was at 3:37 entering the fight
With fantastic damage
2-sack happened
Elysium took a while, but was saved by a 34 patty
unique zephyr
For fists is JS1 or DC1 worse on timer
halcyon flame
damage control is worthless on fists
kindred panther
What's a good GY build for 32?
halcyon flame
heartbreak flourish + deadly strike
not, not the other way around. deadly flourish is worse at clearing rooms
kindred panther
For fists is JS1 or DC1 worse on timer
take DC2 on fists... they're so fast that those first two hits don't really matter. but I always go for poseidon dash + athena attack with fists (that aren't gilgamesh) so I say that under that perspective
halcyon flame
why would you take splash dash on fists?????????
i can understand gilgamesh but why not gilgamesh
kindred panther
with athena attack, it makes fists pretty easy, just a button mash, blast through everything
gilgamesh attack is too slow
to allow athena attack to block everything
halcyon flame
athena attack is amazing defensively on fists since it deflects everything and does a better job than divine dash
but why splash dash
kindred panther
since you're blocking everything, you can get in really close, and when you're really close with poseidon dash, you do a lot of damage
shy plinth
But things don't stay close
kindred panther
true that's the only problem with them, but you just keep dashing at them basically
I dunno, it works for me
it definitely benefits from hermes multidash though tbh. a lot
shy plinth
Everything does
Feels like if I'm on athena attack I'd also want athena dash to maximize deadly reversal or something
halcyon flame
i'd rather go with passion dash for heart rend
kindred panther
with bosses splash dash fists works well cuz there is no knockback, and I just get close and dash back and forth through them
halcyon flame
yeah but for encounters? that's just... why
kindred panther
I'm currently working my way through 32 heat for all aspects though, I am no pro. I've only done demeter and zag fists so far, still have yet to even try the other two yet
just got zag rail a minute ago :)
shy plinth
Nice 🙂
kindred panther
yeah but for encounters? that's just... why
I dunno, just try it. like I said, it works for me
shy plinth
I don't really like dealing with that much micromanagement of enemy movement while I'm on fists and there's so much of my own movement to deal with
ME seems like a lot more synergistic damage
kindred panther
I'm down to zag sword, nemesis, achilles, hades, GY, zag shield, zeus, talos, gilgamesh, and lucifer remaining.
shy plinth
Pretty good list of last weapons outside of zag sword and GY
And gilga I guess but I like gilga >:3
kindred panther
really?... I thought I'd done all the easy ones so far hehe
shy plinth
Zeus shield is the nuts
The spears are just learning spears and lucifer is quite strong even though it's weird
mossy zinc
For fists is JS1 or DC1 worse on timer
What Heat are you doing?
unique zephyr
40
halcyon flame
i don't know why you're not taking dc2 on fists
with lightning stirke it's absolutely free
kindred panther
has anyone ever completed it with every heat there is? like maxing all heat?
kindred panther
holy crap
mossy zinc
Check the high heat leaderboard in the pins. 
kindred panther
what does unseeded mean
kindred panther
up to what
halcyon flame
https://gyazo.com/9c1fd93555b01970e370739402015f80
.
kindred panther
what am I looking for
yeah I watched that
still don't know what unseeded means
mossy zinc
Seeded essentially means you look for a good starting hammer or boon and any time you die or something goes bad, you give up and keep playing the same seed. That is, after giving up, the start hammer and boon will be the same, and you can even manipulate the RNG to get the same rooms again and everything.
Unseeded means not doing anything of that.
kindred panther
oh. okay. I do seeded runs all the time lol
unique zephyr
DC2 is not free.
What makes it not that free on fists?
mossy zinc
For the unseeded leaderboard, you have to show a previous death in the video to prove it wasn't seeded.
It's err... two hits of invincibility on everything?
halcyon flame
for routed, it's tons of rng manipulation to get exactly what you want
mossy zinc
Dash-Strikes and Dash-Uppers can one-shot so many enemies in Tartarus.
kindred panther
what is routed?
unique zephyr
Is DC1 worse than JS1 for fists
mossy zinc
With DC2, you'll need three hits lol.
halcyon flame
what is routed?
for routed, it's tons of rng manipulation to get exactly what you want
kindred panther
yeah but how do you do that
shy plinth
You use a mod to figure out specific RNG calls, you practice controlling the RNG through very precise movements and activators
Then you learn the run
Then you uninstall the mod and do it
mossy zinc
Is DC1 worse than JS1 for fists
Nyaanyaa Mewmew — Today at 9:12 AM
I'd do JS1. Your first hit not stun-locking sucks.
shy plinth
How the game determines what the next boon/room/etc will be
mossy zinc
What's worse ultimately depends on what you can better deal with.
kindred panther
controlling the RNG through very precise movements and activators?... what...?
mossy zinc
RNG = random number generator
shy plinth
Like pressing the summon button x times out of combat in this room
It's fairly complex
kindred panther
how would that affect the RNG
shy plinth
Because of how the game works
halcyon flame
stuff like breaking pots, not breaking pots, breaking certain pillars, poking battie, etc
kindred panther
who figured this out? you'd need access to the game's source code to figure that out
halcyon flame
c_gull can give you a great explanation as to how it works
shy plinth
You can look at the lua scripts yourself
But yes a lot of people have spent a lot of time looking into the code
mossy zinc
They've also figured out a lot of things through just trial and error.
unique zephyr
> Nyaanyaa Mewmew — Today at 9:12 AM
> I'd do JS1. Your first hit not stun-locki...
Ah ok, my normal pact should work then, any tips for EM3 on fists? I took EM2 for 32 but that’s not a viable option for 40
kindred panther
what lua scripts? I assumed, as you can with a significant chunk of video games, that it was written in C++
mossy zinc
Yes. Get Divine Dash is my tip.
mossy zinc
Malphon EM3 FO2 with and without Divine Dash is a world of difference.
shy plinth
Anything that ends in .lua is human-readable
shy plinth
Most games build a tech layer and then a script layer for designers to adjust the game's behavior without changing core code in the engine
kindred panther
so there is no hades folder for me
mossy zinc
Well, there is, technically.
halcyon flame
without looking into the game's code we would have never figured out that taking damage from stepping on magma apparently affects what boons you may get in the next chamber
kindred panther
yeah but I am not going to go hacking my switch
shy plinth
Magma damage rolls calls??? Looool
halcyon flame
c_gull told me iirc
shy plinth
I mean that sounds plausible
shy gulch
yeah lava increments rng iirc
shy plinth
But is not what I would have guessed
kindred panther
wdym increments rng
halcyon flame
this is a real one-dash moment
mossy zinc
without looking into the game's code we would have never figured out that taking...
I think you underestimate what people can figure out through trial and error with enough dedication lol.
halcyon flame
i asked if petting cerberus increments rng and someone told me that's possible??
kindred panther
how did you get all the way to styx with no boons
unique zephyr
I use Divine Dash for 40 heat always. What are good builds for fists besides zeus attack, like aphro special for smoldering air?
shy plinth
ME
hoary pasture
its because of bouldy
unique zephyr
ME is too much of a high roll
kindred panther
how are they even a thing? you'd have to sell every boon you get?
shy plinth
ME 40 doesn't feel like a crazy highroll
shy gulch
and then if u have to take a boon, make sure its something you wont use
shy plinth
I don't know if you're running AP but it's not that hard to pull off
unique zephyr
I got irritated whiffing ME at 32, no AP for 40
halcyon flame
boonless 32 heat isn't the craziest thing in the world. neither is mirrorless boonless 32 heat
shy plinth
Shrug, it's a good build
shy gulch
you can use zeus attack divine dash
halcyon flame
honestly mirrorless + boonless sounds like reset city. you can't roll away boons unless you get lucky with key rooms
shy gulch
idk you mostly just take boons then rebind the action lol
unique zephyr
Shrug, it's a good build
How do I play ME before I get ME
kindred panther
what about chaos boons do those count as not boonless anymore
shy plinth
Keepsake athena special over dash and hit your opponent with the fists
shy gulch
yeah i believe chaos counts
shy plinth
Take dash when you see it, hope for natural ares
mossy zinc
I use Divine Dash for 40 heat always. What are good builds for fists besides zeu...
I thought I'd linked that before.
kindred panther
how can you deal enough damage without any boons that's crazy
hoary pasture
Shackle and good hammers
kindred panther
oh yeah the shackle
mossy zinc
Boonless depends on whether you do it for the boonless leaderboard or for the 100% Olympian-Free title.
kindred panther
what is 100% olympian free
hoary pasture
If you just want olympian free you can take Chaos and Unsellable boons
mossy zinc
A title/run clear message you can get on the victory screen.
For the title, you can't have any purgeable boons on the victory screen.
halcyon flame
curse of longing on fists? do you need the enemy to be weak for it to take effect or not
mossy zinc
Yes. You just do Dash-Strike > Dash-Upper and move on to the next one.
Pretty much.
For the high heat boonless leaderboard, your run needs to be at minimum 32 Heat, recorded, and you can't benefit from any boon on your run in any way.
Selling boons is allowed, of course.
hoary pasture
Might start recording
kindred panther
For the high heat boonless leaderboard, your run needs to be at minimum 32 Heat,...
isn't it possible to get unlucky and be forced to benefit from a boon, at least until you find the next purging station?
mossy zinc
You'd have to get very unlucky, but yes.
kindred panther
that would suck
mossy zinc
Happened to me, and yeah lol.
halcyon flame
boonless
forced into a boon
no flourish, attack, or cast boons and you benefit from each boon "offered"
kindred panther
man, y'all take this stuff to the next level. Y'all go this hard on any other games?
mossy zinc
I play fighting games, so yeah lol.
kindred panther
fighting games? are those even made anymore?
hoary pasture
I used to unintentionally use my special on zag bow even tho it does nothing lol so I started unbinding whatever I take
mossy zinc
lol yes, they're made. Highly competitive.
kindred panther
I was never good at them
halcyon flame
hunter dash is probably the only acceptable dash boon in boonless huh?
you can just not dash-strike
hoary pasture
I guess so
mossy zinc
You get better after thousands of hours of practice.
They're all acceptable. You can just not Dash lol.
halcyon flame
asphodel 
kindred panther
you would be able to dash, just not dash strike right
mossy zinc
You can cross all the magma between islands just by walking.
mossy zinc
you would be able to dash, just not dash strike right
Well, boons like Tidal Dash do damage whether you Dash-Strike or not.
kindred panther
yeah but... first of all I thought y'all were talking about arty dash, and second of all, I thought we were talking about running boonless
mossy zinc
I got stuck in a Styx chamber with a gap and a Dash boon once. Couldn't kill the enemies without dashing to the other side lol.
kindred panther
you would be able to dash, just not dash strike right
yeah so I was saying this under those assumptions
halcyon flame
can't benefit from arty dash if you just don't dash-strike, i don't see the problem
mossy zinc
Yeah, that's fine.
I can assure you, "just don't Dash-Strike" is easier said than done.
halcyon flame
i'd argue that you should be able to use core boons so long as the encounter has already been cleared out
shy plinth
Can you dash-special
mossy zinc
I unmap my buttons when I get a core boon lol.
halcyon flame
not dash-striking is definitely easier said than done
kindred panther
I got stuck in a Styx chamber with a gap and a Dash boon once. Couldn't kill the...
you could have maybe cast them to death?
halcyon flame
not benefitting from hunter's dash when you're using bow
kindred panther
would take about half an hour but
waxen relic
Just say "That boon is worse than having Shackle active" and get away with it
hoary pasture
lol
kindred panther
oh hehe
mossy zinc
Can you dash-special
The only actual Dash-Special is Dash-Upper, and that benefits from Hunter Dash, so no.
mossy zinc
But the game doesn't acknowledge it as a Dash-Special through text, and it doesn't benefit from Dash-Strike boons.
mossy zinc
So you're sure or you're not sure?
kindred panther
what's the general strategy for 32 GY? I've heard some say just ignore your attack, it's all about the special... I dunno
shy gulch
if you get charged skewer, ignore your attack
shy plinth
hoary pasture
Yea I just went for Charged Skewer with Deadly Flourish for GY 32
shy plinth
I did this and it was good
shy plinth
Was a lot
kindred panther
is aphro heart boost boon a priority with GY 32?
shy plinth
Though honestly in this channel it is on the low side
Aphro and arty are both very good on special
limpid mortar
But the game doesn't acknowledge it as a Dash-Special through text, and it doesn...
Shield Special Base w/ Dashing Flight:
Standing: 45
Dash: 135
50% DashStrike - Shield Special w/ Dashing Flight::
Standing: 45
Dash: 158
Added by 22.5 - 50% of 45, not 135
mossy zinc
That's settles it. Thanks! 💕
mossy zinc
what's the general strategy for 32 GY? I've heard some say just ignore your att...
And this. #h1-builds-and-combat message
shy plinth
You can trust her
shy gulch
yeah those are accurate
shy plinth
The aspect was originally named Nyaan Mew
shy gulch
the one thing i'd add is that
charged skewer is ahead of other hammers by quite a lot, its ridiculous
shy plinth
Charged skewer is to GY as double edge is to nemesis
shy gulch
i still have yet to complete a single charged skewer GY run tho LUL
halcyon flame
next time i get a c1 hammer and it has charged skewer on gy i'm doing 32 heat with that thing asap
celest grail
i just took hydralite from patty
on 50 heat
speedrunning habits sigh
and i didnt even notice it for like 5 chambers
so i cant even savescum it back now
mossy zinc
inb4 you get oneshot to some random crap
That's why you take High Confidence.
One-shot the things before they can one-shot you.
halcyon flame
who takes hydralite and not jerky from paddy when speedrunning
ok i can understand hc
mossy zinc
Depends on the aspect lol.
hoary pasture
Paper Eris gamer
mossy zinc
High Confidence gud.
shy plinth
That looks pretty good
mossy zinc
Might also take Kiss/Touch of Styx depending on how things are going.
shy gulch
some aspects have no use for their base attack
like eris
base attack damage*
in reference to hydralite > jerky
celest grail
who takes hydralite and not jerky from paddy when speedrunning
eris, dem, etc all like hydralite over attack jerky
i rarely take kiss of styx on weapons that like hydralite
maybe if ive lost all dd's
hoary pasture
Didnt someone here mention that you could skip Hydra with Rama shared suffering
I heard it somewhere but never saw a vid of it
Not sure if its even a thing
celest grail
yep
there is a vid
ill show ya gimme a sec
its basically because shared suffering dmg is not capped
you tag both lernie and one of the adds with S.S, then you hit one of the adds with arty attack
and hope for a huge crit
also needs ds dmg from chaos to even get that huge crit, and clean kill
hoary pasture
Damn
kindred panther
nice! Just cleared GY 32!
mossy zinc
Congratulations!
kindred panther
Amazingly, I still had my SD when he died
was actually pretty easy, compared to some of the others
I think of all the aspects I've done so far, I actually had the hardest time with either chiron or chaos... supposed to be two of the easier ones
kindred panther
Congratulations! <:dusa:522248771409543188>
thanks! I thought it was gonna be so much harder than that. For gilgamesh, should I take greater reflex or ruthless reflex? ruthless, right? cuz it already gives you extra dashes
mossy zinc
Ruthless Reflex, yeah.
kindred panther
👍
celest grail
em4 on 32 heat why
chiron can handle it well, but there are so many other better pacts
kindred panther
whoa you can do the athena rez trick twice. I've got 2 DDs and an SD now
neat sonnet
can you have the same tick over for a chaos DD? super rare but
quartz mantle
Your SD gets taken before the athena dd so you can get both of them
It leaves an open DD so I'd asume so
mossy zinc
The same tick over?
quartz mantle
although it's not really a trick
neat sonnet
since it gets added at the end of a room
neat sonnet
but you can put it under SD right
mossy zinc
You can get DDs from Master Chaos multiple times.
pseudo kernel
since it gets added at the end of a room
chaos gives you another DD, it doesnt need to replace SD
neat sonnet
that's what I meant
quartz mantle
Yea chaos doesn't fill in an old one
you just get one for free
well not free
but you know what I mean
neat sonnet
yes but can you make it like the athena one
mossy zinc
It's added to the left of your SD.
neat sonnet
thank you
thought it'd be cool
and it is, just really uncommon during a run
speaking of chaos, what's a good build for their shield at 32?
neat sonnet
so doom or poison basically
pseudo kernel
but i have never done it
neat sonnet
hmm lightning refresh internal cooldown might nerf that idea, or am I thnking it's slower than it is
quartz mantle
Zeus special is good for clearing rooms
mossy zinc
I just do something like this and pretend I play Zag Shield. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/823652184390238218/Hades_1705.png?width=768&height=432
pseudo kernel
zag shield with better special
mossy zinc
Is it better?
You'd have to use it to find out, and why do that. 
32 Heat builds are still basically the same as any heat, anyway.
Hammer priority is Charged Shot >>> Explosive Return > Dashing Flight > any rush hammers.
Pretty much.
neat sonnet
charged shot just is awesome in general I see
mossy zinc
Although if I have Charged Shot already, I'd prioritize Breaching Rush and Sudden Rush over anything else, probably.
pseudo kernel
yeah i agree since i have never gotten charged shot on chaos or zag shield
mossy zinc
Charged Shot is the best hammer by far on any shield, yeah.
80 base damage, piercing, and you can just spam it. You can just release your Charged Shot immediately and get the full damage.
Then Dash-Strike into another Charged Shot.
mossy zinc
Swift Strike? I don't think so.
neat sonnet
alrighty
mossy zinc
Can't say I've tried recently.
@honest kernel does Swift Strike affect Bull Rush charge speed?
pseudo kernel
i dont think it does
neat sonnet
don't worry about it, I'm just thinking on stuff - it would also undermine sudden rush's value
devout quiver
i mean, presumably it would stack with sudden rush
impossible to know though, i guess
solar maple
<@456226577798135808> does Swift Strike affect Bull Rush charge speed?
it does not
neat sonnet
thaaank you pseudo
mossy zinc
How we do know that you know, though? You're washed up.
neat sonnet
washed one may be, but it does not take the knowledge you've gained away
pseudo kernel
yes it does lmao
fickle heron
It does speed up the rush activation, but not the charge speed imo. You start charging faster since the attack move before charging is faster due to swift strike. Same for spear?
solar maple
oh yeah to rush you need to do an attack first, which SS speeds up
mossy zinc
You charge primarily from Dash-Strikes, and Dash-Strikes aren't affected by Swift Strike.
solar maple
so you do get more rushes/s with swift strike charged shot or something
mossy zinc
But yeah, there would be some use cases. Was wondering about charge speed, though. I don't remember it affecting charge speed when I mained Beowulf in Blood Price, but I don't think I've tried it once since lol.
solemn pulsar
Dash strike charged shot is also better for@mobility
If you’re just slamming the shot repeatedly
The dash strike is your only method of repositioning
mossy zinc
Lol of course Zag Sword ends my streak.
This thing does no damage on a good day.
And even less on a bad day.
pseudo kernel
I tried doing 20 heat zag sword before my 20 heat beowulf build
gave up and then did beowulf
kindred panther
cool just got gilgamesh 32. Now I'm down to zag sword, nemesis, achilles, hades, zag shield, zeus, talos, and lucifer
honest kernel
<@456226577798135808> does Swift Strike affect Bull Rush charge speed?
It doesn't
At 'least, to my knowledge
neat sonnet
but if the activation is sped up then that's what I'm looking for
mossy zinc
Ty ty.
mossy zinc
Wow, I found this one hammer, and suddenly my Zag Sword does damage.
Turns out 2x0>0, after all.
pseudo kernel
epic
vital grove
Rng queen
mossy zinc
Why yes, thank you. 
vital grove
You should begin referring to yourself in third person, your majesty
eager vortex
okay someone give me some basic build for talos so I can finish my all weaps 40 please
aspects *
never used it b4
should I just ME
yes I should
thank you all
eager vortex
hmm
I'ma find my own build for talos then but
it'll be pretty much the same as my demeter prolly
yeah me will work but idk it's too mainstream
waxen relic
My Talos was Lightning Phalanx iirc
eager vortex
talos is lowkey cast aspect ?
solemn pulsar
talos's cast buff is the only thing it has over any other fist
unless you're running heavy knuckle deadly strike
in which case the 50% attack buff is actually useful
devout quiver
Could use some recommendations for a 32 pact
https://i.imgur.com/BknNGtI.png
This is where I'm at so far
I'll probably try and shoot for ME, i guess, so AP seems rough
solemn pulsar
you can start putting points in hard labor
devout quiver
All of the remaining 4?
solemn pulsar
if you're comfortable with it
basically as many as you're comfy with in there
AP/RI/CF are all no go's if you want to get to ME
DC is ok on fists, but worse on gilga because the attack is slower
i'd try putting all 4 in HL
and if you're having trouble, maybe try to move them around into a point in JS or trying BP2
devout quiver
never played with HL before, so 4 is a bit intimidating
solemn pulsar
honestly just crank it to 5 and give it a shot
see how you do
doing LC4 +SDs means your HP pool per room (especially in bosses) is lower than LC0 already
so your MO should already be "don't get hit"
try it with HL4 and see how you do
solemn pulsar
if it's too much, HL1 BP2 would probably be what you want
@distant cradle what is your average clear time on 0 heat with rama
and do you play with any Forced Overtime on Rama already
distant cradle
I did 6 in 18
No
I usually do em2 the miniboss one
And td2
I tried FO and did not do well
solemn pulsar
so with heat there's 2 ways to think about the pacts
there are things that make the run harder, like Forced overtime and Hard Labor
and things that make your build worse, which makes it harder by extension, like Underworld Customs and Approval Process
16 heat is very flexible for what you'd like to do
distant cradle
Hmm
solemn pulsar
if you feel like you are good at avoiding damage, then you can take Hard Labor or Lasting Consequences a bit
hoary pasture
AP2 RI4 FO1
distant cradle
Ok
solemn pulsar
if you want the game to be similar, but maybe have some worse boons, you can take Underworld Customs
if you want to push yourself to go faster, TD3 is 3 heat, which is a lot
solemn pulsar
yeah you have a lot of options
celest grail
@devout quiver really important fact here, use dark foresight pls
solemn pulsar
we talk a lot at high heat about certain pacts being "death" or "never take", but at 16 you can really take anything
@distant cradle one pact that could work that depends on your rama playstyle is Damage Control. If you're good at using your special to tag every enemy with shared suffering before you attack, then Damage Control isn't felt much, and you could add 1 or 2 heat that way. But if you primarily attack and ignore the special, Damage Control would be incredibly frustrating on Rama
hoary pasture
Appa is a Dark Foresight hater
distant cradle
Hmm oki
halcyon flame
gods' favor 🤮
celest grail
olympian favor* yeah
bright mango
Why do you not use dark foresight?
kindred panther
Interesting... I've never been able to do my runs very fast at all, but I just got my first sub-15:00 run on 32 heat with the zag shield, an aspect I basically never use.
ashen garnet
I'ma find my own build for talos then but
Like atticor said, building around Zeus and Athena is good, LP is tasty. ZAP or ZAA are good and reliable. Talos having 3 special hammers cut, you usually try to build around the attack and the cast (You would rather go for Aphrodite/Artemis/Ares attacks with Heavy Knuckles though)
bright mango
merciful end EZ
bright mango
Why do you not use dark foresight?
@devout quiver
devout quiver
because I usually use the other one
:D
The real reason is I usually use Legacy, instead of Pride
so I want some rarity boost for non-unique boons
does Ruthless Reflex buff doom or no?
bright mango
RR is global damage
devout quiver
but that duo chance tho
bright mango
Its negligible in most runs
hoary pasture
^
devout quiver
since i'm in pause area and remembered, here's the detes
https://i.imgur.com/sSvFENd.png
pseudo kernel
nice
hoary pasture
See, Legacy is a scam 
pseudo kernel
yeah
mossy zinc
God's Legacy is good. 
devout quiver
2 sac lets go
mossy zinc
Wut.
pseudo kernel
bruh
solemn pulsar
so here's the thing about dark foresight VS olympian favor,:
Rare boons are 31% stronger on average, over common. Olympian favor increases rare odds by 40%, so 40% of the time, one of your boons will be 40% stronger starting out. That comes out to 12.4% stronger boons overall, on average.
Dark foresight gets you more boons, more poms, more HP, and more coins. We'll ignore HP for now, and treat coins as just ways to get more boons + poms.
When going for a build, specifically duo/legendary builds with god's legacy, you want more boons to get the prereqs + the eventual boons. Gods legacy has better synergy with Dark Foresight than Olympian Favor
Poms improve your boons. Realistically you'll have 4 or so boons on average in a run that want poms, even if more can take them, only a few will drastically help your build. Average Pom Scaling is 40% for the first pom. So 1 pom in a boon makes it 40% stronger. Between extra Poms from Dark Foresight, and extra money from DF allowing you to buy more poms, and extra HP from dark foresight meaning you need to buy healing items less, meaning more money to buy more poms, Dark Foresight gets you a lot more poms. If you get 4 more poms on a Dark Foresight run than an Olympian Favor run (which considering money and everything else is very possible), then your core boons are all improved by levels stronger than the 12.4% average from Olympian Favor.
The final point I'll make is that Olympian Favor is an RNG chance. You can have runs with zero Rare boons with olympian favor. Dark Foresight is not an RNG chance. It alters the ratio of gold rooms to blue rooms. You will always see consistently more gold laurel rooms with Dark Foresight, and by a large margin>
Bottom line: Dark Foresight will give more power that Olympian Favor through poms alone, but you also get boons, hearts, and gold. DF has better synergy with Gods Legacy, and DF works consistently every time, not through an RNG chance like OF does
This math is not finite, and Nyaa's link is probably better for the nitty gritty
this is just some top level looks at how your runs will be affected by each. From what a lot of players have seen over thousands of hours, there's really not a niche for OF over DF
extra HP, boons, hearts, and poms brutally outweigh 12.4% stronger boons overall, in my opinion
devout quiver
pots 
solemn pulsar
especially since not all boons contribute to damage, and rarity doesn't matter much on them
mossy zinc
.....
pseudo kernel
bruh what
quartz mantle
Sorry no cursing allowed
eternal hare
quartz mantle
long links are swear words
solemn pulsar
might be anti-spamming too
DF working consistently and not through RNG is probably it's greatest benefit TBH
pseudo kernel
epic link
pseudo kernel
yeah lmao
mossy zinc
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r6q7N9msBAD9SSpy_tWyUrwHcoHizEp-ZgZKRR_OzDk/edit?usp=sharing
solemn pulsar
oh nvm nyaas is just how good legacy is
solemn pulsar
i think i get it
your spreadsheets always confuse me for a few seconds, I think how you arrange data in your head is different than me
brains are interesting
mossy zinc
1.5 > 2 > 2.5 etc. is essentially how many rolls you have. 2 rolls means there's an open priority slot, so you only get two rolls for a legendary chance. 1.5 means there's an open priority slot and a status curse is in the boon pool that has a 50% chance to also be added with priority.
Etc.
And the chances are for getting a specific Duo/Legendary. So 1 out of 2 duo/leg means there are two in the pool, and you're looking for a specific one like ME.
solemn pulsar
why are the chances the same for no rerolls on 1/1 1/2 and 1/3 duo/leg
kindred panther
whoa cool. just got the Perfect Clear end run message. I thought you had to beat Hades without getting hit the whole fight (which I've done once before but didn't get the message), but apparently you just have to be at full health when he dies.
pseudo kernel
so basically you have to beat hades without getting hit
kindred panther
no I got hit
pseudo kernel
acorn?
solemn pulsar
wait i'm dumb nyaa
nvm
i was looking at the "duo/leg chance" column
no wait that's 0 rerolls
kindred panther
that was already gone. I had a leftover big rez from achilles in elysium and I had just gotten killed... and, well now that I think about it, how was I at full health?
mossy zinc
I didn't look into rerolls. That's more complicated because you're guaranteed to see at least one new boon.
kindred panther
lol. but I was. My SD/DDs were all gone but I was 320/320 or whatever
quartz mantle
Sounds like a stubborn roots moment to me
bright mango
you just have to beat him with full health
kindred panther
oh maybe... I don't think I had stubborn roots though
mossy zinc
0.88 just means 0.12 base chance to roll any legendary in a slot for normal rewards.
quartz mantle
Did you have Patty's SD buff?
Cause if you have that and 2 regular well SD buffs that's 100% health from an SD
mossy zinc
Then if you add God's Legacy, it's 0.22, so 0.78. With Yarn + Legacy, it's 0.32, so 0.68. Etc. Etc.
kindred panther
no I didn't have stubborn roots. I had an athena DD (the exploit), Deathless Stand, and Touch of Styx Dark active
bright mango
yeah athena DD will heal you to full with Patty
kindred panther
What's Patty?
pseudo kernel
patroclus
quartz mantle
Touch of Styx Dark
kindred panther
ohhh okay
kindred panther
oh well... they're always together haha
quartz mantle
We just call it patty cause at high heat you pretty much only take the SD buff
Unless you're doing mirrorless
mossy zinc
@solemn pulsar first row is always base chance, second row is with one leg chance bonus, third row is two leg chance bonuses, etc.
solemn pulsar
oh ok
i understand it now
by "rolls" at the top you meant rolls per boon screen
not per reroll
mossy zinc
Using 0.88 instead of 0.12 etc was just convenient for me when adding the formulas.
Yeah.
solemn pulsar
i got it 100% now
kindred panther
well, it may not have actually been perfect, but still cool to see the message
I've beaten Hades once without getting hit the last fight, but I must not have been at full heath when I started the fight. I was bummed I didn't get it that time. It was on 32 heat too
mossy zinc
I think the most interesting takeaway is how big of an effect grabbing a status curse out of the pool asap has.
If you're looking for Smoldering Air, and it's between Static Discharge and a core boon, you should basically always take Jolted over the core boon unless the core boon fills the last free slot.
Same goes for ME and Blinding Flash.
Although for ME I guess, you'd want Divine Dash, anyway.
solemn pulsar
really? why is something that has a 50% chance to be priority better than taking something that's guaranteed priority?
waxen relic
And you'd pick jolted anyway too most of the time
mossy zinc
But between Phalanx Shot and Blinding Flash, if you don't have Divine Dash yet, Blinding Flash gives you a better shot at ME next time.
Because taking the guaranteed priority doesn't change anything if there are still free slots. Next boon you see, there will just be another core boon to take its place.
solemn pulsar
oh missed the "unless it's last free slot" case
mossy zinc
Yeah.
solemn pulsar
for ME builds you want to take phalanx if you don't have dash yet though, and dash isn't offered
waxen relic
cuz you want the dash later?
solemn pulsar
yeah filling 3rd core with phalanx will guarantee your next core boon will show dash (IGNORING SWAPS)
and the effectiveness of taking the status curse boon when searching for a duo is only 50% what it seems, since you can get the duo from both gods
and taking Athena's status curse does not affect your odds of seeing ME from Ares
but filling all core slots affects both
mossy zinc
The Dash has a high chance of showing up later anyway. By taking Blinding Flash, you'll have a better chance of rolling either ME or Divine Dash next time. If you take Phalanx Shot, and reroll the next boon for ME, you might not see Divine Dash after your reroll.
My brain derped lol.
solemn pulsar
Not sure I understand that line of thinking
waxen relic
Pre-reqs of ME fill 2 of 4 priorities already too
mossy zinc
It's a 10% chance to see an exchange for Attack or a 90% chance to see Divine Dash. If Divine Dash is offered, and you reroll, there's a 1/3 chance that you won't see Divine Dash because at least one boon is guaranteed to be replaced with a new offer.
And Blinding Flash + the free Dash slot both lower your odds for ME, anyway.
Basically my point is you have a much better chance at rolling ME (even without rerolls), and your odds of rolling Dash if you don't get ME are still decent.
solemn pulsar
other thing to consider with ME builds (though this is more speedrunning related and less "just get ME" related) is that you also really want impending doom, and filling all core slots will also improve odds of seeing impending doom from ares
and you can't take slicing shot to fill a slot from ares, since then you open 2 new boons to cover up impending doom
mossy zinc
Mhmm. But not getting ME in a race is worse than not getting Impending Doom.
And ME with no Divine Dash is better than Divine Dash with no ME.
solemn pulsar
true, "take blinding flash for slightly better ME odds" is a good thing to think so that race brain works better
though it's easier to just take a core boon at the top then to look down at other boons and scroll lol
mossy zinc
In situations where you can't just reset or in long streaks, consistency trumps, I would think.
mossy zinc
Also for high heat where you'll get fewer boons anyway.
solemn pulsar
going for ME in high heat is pain anyway
mossy zinc
Yeah, but knowing how to improve your odds a bit is nice.
quartz mantle
Sad
unique zephyr
Were you at low enough health to be one shot since it’s RI2 Guan Yu
bright mango
yeah, no acorn so 2 mistakes was everything
ok so I was close
By 90 I meant 90 max HP
gaunt fiber
yeah
gaunt fiber
Anti value gaming 
bright mango
pepe sad
solemn pulsar
why do some armored enemies not have BP perks when you have BP on
gaunt fiber
because
The question is
Why do some enemies have BP perks then the same type spawn but don't
bright mango
I'm not complaining
gaunt fiber
me neither
pseudo kernel
i didnt know hades had a battle pass
neat sonnet
Dang that’s some good RNG on that run despite the loss though Astaos
mossy zinc
why do some armored enemies not have BP perks when you have BP on
Only one enemy type can have BP in any chamber, but more than one type can have armor.
solemn pulsar
hmm, guess i've never noticed that
gaunt fiber
Dang that’s some good RNG on that run despite the loss though Astaos
The rng was stupid. It's ME Tartarus + divine with RI2 AP1. Was a lot of fun. I did not play that seriously because it was EM4 but I should have lol
bright mango
It was the most highrolly thing I've ever seen
We sold divine flourish to high roll for rush delivery, and deadly flourish
bright mango
"not too bad"
neat sonnet
that's pretty nuts
bright mango
I made all of this happen btw
gaunt fiber
Yeah that's as good as it gets
gaunt fiber
This is what I meant by "your fault" Pengy
mossy zinc
@bright mango take the credit for the build when it's offered—as @gaunt fiber must take the credit for playing bad and getting hit smh. Didn't follow rule #1 of Hades high heat.
gaunt fiber
You were the real star
mossy zinc
Don't get hit.
bright mango
ezpz
gaunt fiber
I'm such a rule breaker
gaunt fiber
bright mango
I want to join that server for the emotes
gaunt fiber
Do you feel the coolness with that emote
bronze viper
@bright mango You got the Zoos 50? Grats!
bronze viper
Oh
bright mango
I should probably change it
bronze viper
Grats!
bright mango
Its a bit misleading
bronze viper
unique zephyr
Still stuck on fists 40
could use some help with the pact, I found that DC hurts me less than JS, but not sure if I should cut down CF, HS, or HL
DC2 seems to be too much, DC1 feels fine though
waxen relic
Cutting HL is a trap
honest kernel
I just took max HL and CF
I really disliked hs on fists since im not good with the weapon
and I dashed into traps a bunch
unique zephyr
I do like how HS makes killing myself for SD a bit faster but asphodel with HS sucks
honest kernel
yeah
unique zephyr
I haven’t gotten past Lernie with fists yet
waxen relic
Lernie is a handful with Fists
mossy zinc
I do like how HS makes killing myself for SD a bit faster but asphodel with HS s...
Stop walking into magma...
waxen relic
tbh HS should really only matter at Lernie and Daddy, provided playing with SD
mossy zinc
Calm down, and be very deliberate with your dashes.
hoary pasture
Or get heroic sure footing
ashen garnet
Still stuck on fists 40
Which aspect are you doing btw ?
unique zephyr
Which aspect are you doing btw ?
Demeter
unique zephyr
Stop walking into magma...
I mainly have trouble doing that in the Lernie fight
HS only is really trouble at Lernie for me
ashen garnet
Had trouble too until I started to circle around the arena (support heads slowly gather around you if you don't) and was told that Lernie heads attack patterns always cycle between 1 standard attack and 1 specific color head's attacks. Not staying too close to spawns/pre-shot with cast helped to survive too in case of unexpected blue head slam. Keeping a companion summon for the second wave of support heads helps to keep a safe side of the arena as well 
unique zephyr
I guess it’s time to learn what the head colors actually mean
Those are really good tips, I have been way too close to spawns
Especially with close range weapons
I do use Antos though for furies so I’m not sure how that works when the heads are out
Also how do I play zeus shield, all I know is zeus on special
ashen garnet
I do use Antos though for furies so I’m not sure how that works when the heads a...
I was assuming you were using meg With antos I guess you want to keep it to phase a dangerous center head (blue/purple) as it will only hit 2 support heads
gaunt fiber
Antos 
unique zephyr
I’ve liked Antos since doing 32s
Sometimes I need something clutch in furies especially with TD3
Also easier to time
unique zephyr
wait you can aim with antos?
how does that work?
i thought you just pressed the button and it hits 2 random enemies
gaunt fiber
hahaha
I don't know how it works
But it should be possible to aim
Just because it works as intended sometimes. I think there's like a "priority". If the first hit is on an enemy, the remaining will go on another one (i.e soul catcher and hitting an exalted soul)
Once I got both hits on the soul catcher
But I'm clueless
unique zephyr
Finally beat Lernie! Progress!
unique zephyr
now I'm going to have to figure out how to do EM3 on fists
EM3 + FO2 + fists = bad time
Died in Elysium, I'm bad at fighting Elysium normal rooms with fists (was a tiny chariot and brightsword chamber)
unique zephyr
i was more having trouble with the brightswords
gaunt fiber
Don't try to attack especially on fists you have no reach
unique zephyr
i just got slashed for 60 damage and died
gaunt fiber
I mean deal with them separately
unique zephyr
i did try to attack the chariots though that was a mistake
unique zephyr
Also turns out DC isn't quite free on fists
I'm using DC1 and it's actually annoying
i am more than fast enough with JS0, hope I can handle JS1 DC0
unique zephyr
even with Zeus attack?
unique zephyr
my other option is JS1 basically
gaunt fiber
But it means that you won't stun your enemies with the first hit
like a numbskull could jump on your throat
unique zephyr
oh yeah the stunlock thing is important
how did I think DC was free on fists on low heat lol
gaunt fiber
Yeah since you're at melee range you need something to rely on
this is why breaching cross is top tier
gaunt fiber
how did I think DC was free on fists on low heat lol
Common mistake
ashen garnet
i was more having trouble with the brightswords
Divide and backstab them one by one if you can. They have an animation going on before their attack triggers, but the latter is usually faster than your standard fist attack, so you can't reliably stunlock them (didn't tried while having swift strike, but FO2 make them terrifying) Don't forget to cast beforehand since they have a short reach
ashen garnet
Only good run I’ve had all day
I think one good run a day is the standard at 50, particularly with AP2 ?
gaunt fiber
Scratch "god fists" 5cr4tc11 has spoken
ashen garnet
Scratch "god fists" 5cr4tc11 has spoken
I am not worthy yet 
unique zephyr
I'm not sure if JS1 will actually lose me less time than DC1
JS1 over DC1 doesn't affect my other stuff like calls and special hammers as much as DC1
eager vortex
he's gonna run out of time
unique zephyr
the damage shield actually comes in handy, any tips for dealing with witches when I have only close range
eager vortex
pray
ashen garnet
the damage shield actually comes in handy, any tips for dealing with witches whe...
Side dash before being hit
solar maple
^^ is actual advise
devout quiver
just have divine dash, ez
eager vortex
imagine not having divine dash on every run
bright mango
Yeah I died phase 2
eager vortex
dw you'd run out of time anyway
bright mango
I died to timer
eager vortex
oh nice
what
it means you were good enough but timer stinky
I prefer dying to timer rather than dad's idiotic traps anytime
bright mango
Oh lol
solar maple
probably need to work on tart speed
with JS0 CP0 zeus should be able to go quite quick through tart
bright mango
Definitely
devout quiver
was it 2 sac or worse?
solar maple
greed gaming
devout quiver
greed is good 
bright mango
Vermin is still better
unique zephyr
Side dash before being hit
What do you mean by side dash
solar maple
normal styx rooms can just be miserable
vermin is annoying, but with good damage isn't that slow
bright mango
They’re also really scary
unique zephyr
oh dash to the side of the witches
sorry for brain fart
I haven't had a single good run today
unless making it past lernie counts
ashen garnet
What do you mean by side dash
I mean, dashing to a perpendicular direction to the one of the projectile coming at you. Asphodel spreader witches are slightly different because you can side-dash reliably only when being close enough to the witch, otherwise you try to keep a safe distance to be able to stay between lines of projectiles or not dash into lateral lines
bright mango
Accept death
eager vortex
na just give up
unique zephyr
Is it just me that finds Fists 40 way harder than all the other ones I've done so far
unique zephyr
(Spear, Rail, Bow)
bright mango
Fists 40> sword 40
eager vortex
fists is easier imo
unique zephyr
Which is why I'm not doing sword 40 yet
sword 40 just sucks
at least fists is fun
i tried sword 40 and it...wasn't fun
no DPS and no safety
eager vortex
well sword is generally accepted as the worst weap for high heat
solar maple
"generally accepted"?
there are like 10 high heat players and like 6 of them say that lol
eager vortex
hmm
ashen garnet
there are like 10 high heat players and like 6 of them say that lol
Democratic majority 
eager vortex
most people who do high heat runs usually prefer to use weapons other than the sword
solar maple
I don't agree, pengy doesn't, I doubt retrash does,
eager vortex
okay that sounds better
solar maple
I mean sword isn't good, I just think fists are worse haha
eager vortex
iunno, personally I find fists easier
bright mango
I don't agree, pengy doesn't, I doubt retrash does,
What have I been offered to now?
eager vortex
my hardest 40 run was zag sword
it was miserable
then guess what
I went the ME ROUTE
unique zephyr
Maybe I should take a short break before I get too tilted
eager vortex
ez
solar maple
well zag sword is terrible yeah
you basically just have to go ME
unless you're retrash
unique zephyr
ME pros: high DPS when online
ME cons: Ares is in your god pool
solar maple
then you casually slap em4 with zeus attack zag sword at 50s of heat
bright mango
What have I been offered to now?
@solar maple
solar maple
oh I thought you said fists were harder than sword for heat
I may have misremembered though
bright mango
I’ve said sword is harder
eager vortex
I mean why even use me zag sword unless it's just for completion's sake
when gilga's official, approved build is me
bright mango
I have much more mobility with fists
eager vortex
that's retrash isn't it
bright mango
yes
solar maple
this was the "broken" build that retrash used for 55 heat lol
bright mango
N O V A
eager vortex
okay while we're discussing hades we need to exclude them
like retrash, tail etc.
cuz they are just far ahead of the curve or sth
bright mango
They are special ppl
eager vortex
with that build
bright mango
Tailesque is a space fox
eager vortex
I have no idea how he managed it
bright mango
🦊
eager vortex
nobody could but he did somehow, wtf is dash nova even
solar maple
I mean he tied the fist heat wr with the worst sword haha
unique zephyr
So how badly does CF2 hurt beo?
I may do beo shield as break from sword and fists
CF2 is hard to avoid unless I take AP1 though
solar maple
CF2 is annoying, but manageable
unique zephyr
Or more JS
bright mango
For 40?
bright mango
I avoid both CF and AP
unique zephyr
Do you max JS