h1-high-heat-strategies

[celest grail]

pp+mark is busted

[mossy zinc]

Tidal Dash adds more damage to your Dash-Strike than any Attack boon would.

[solar maple]

wriste actually did quite a bit of experimenting with tidal dash start eris

it isn't bad

[gaunt fiber]

sigh

I'm not good today

Aotw will wait

[solar maple]

I tried to do aotw speedruns

but it's too hard

[gaunt fiber]

I really like Arthur

I think I just don't like 50 heat

[tidal flame]

Aotw?

[gaunt fiber]

It's a weekly community event in the speedrun discord

Every week, people will compete with a specific aspect (aspect of the week) for any heat speedruns or the highest heat clear (hotw)

[solar maple]

arthur is actually one of the hardest weapons for speedrunning I think

and it sucks

not a great combo

[gaunt fiber]

oof

[solemn pulsar]

yeah tidal dash start on eris is fine

wriste had some really good times taking good rarity doom attak

• dire misfortune makes the damage POP

it's just not quite as braindead

since there's a bit of delay to stuff dying

[edgy arrow]

i’m gonna go out on a limb and guess this didn’t catch on

but you’re right it’s far from the worst you could do

[solar maple]

there are a few people who like it

but it's not the meta for sure

[bright mango]

Lol same

[mossy zinc]

I like just chilling with Excalibur and doing silly eHP builds.

I don't like speedrunning with it.

[bright mango]

I can’t even do 45 with it

That was my goal for every aotw

[mossy zinc]

I don't think I've done 40 with it yet.

45 is very high if you don't have much prior experience with the aspect.

Or just a billion runs in the game in general.

[bright mango]

Fastest I made was elysium

[solar maple]

I realized I had no idea how to dodge with it

so I stacked eHP lol

got 45, gave up on 50 pretty quickly

[gaunt fiber]

My Hades is almost clean now

Have to reach him

[wintry berry]

ngl, when I watched again my 50 heat Arthur, I ask myself how I did this clear

[wintry berry]

50 heat zag rail before I died https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/770315207750320140/830494742939828264/zagrail_50_fail.png?width=1191&height=670

Hazard bomb carried me, and TD2 is quite lenient about dps check but I choke

[devout quiver]

[eager vortex]

that's good

getting to theseus with zag rail on 50 heat is good, I mean

[solemn pulsar]

with no attack boon especially

was that an EM4 pact for TD3?

*TD2?

or did you make up for it with DC and JS/Cp

[wintry berry]

JS2 CP1 RI2 DC2 AP2

and TD2

Damage was quite low

[solemn pulsar]

DC2 with no zeus attack is rough

brave to continue without resetting for it, honestly

[gaunt fiber]

You had nothing and made it to heroes, nice

Reminds me the time I made it to mid Ely with divine strike only

GY 50

[eager vortex]

is cold fusion useless

[gaunt fiber]

game good sometimes

For rooms it's completely useless

[eager vortex]

cuz in baj's 64 vid he keeps selling it

[gaunt fiber]

It was routed for money

[solemn pulsar]

yeah you have to sell a boon for UC

so I made it so he picked up a free one in chamber 13

[eager vortex]

no he sold something else and that

[solemn pulsar]

that was because of a reroute

it was originally only cold fusion

[eager vortex]

and I just got an option to pick it

so I'm wondering if I should lol

[solemn pulsar]

but he still needed to sell it for $$$

[eager vortex]

okay

it's for bosses then ?

[solar maple]

ask ledger. They might be the only one who actually likes the boon

[eager vortex]

I'm getting useless vibes here

[solar maple]

I'm not a huge fan of it

[devout quiver]

Its alright.
Usually its not that hard to just reapply jolted though

[solar maple]

it is good for selling though 👀

[solemn pulsar]

So most Zeus builds have a fast hit rate

[eager vortex]

I'm doing zeus special chaos

[solemn pulsar]

So jolted is usually applied

So you’re always goi g to be applying it

It can be useful on high heat because you spend time running from attacks and they continue to damage themselves

[solar maple]

yeah it's decent vs heroes and such

[solemn pulsar]

It’s also somewhat useful with Zeus call as your only jolted source

[solar maple]

you tag theseus with it and fight the bull

[solemn pulsar]

Since that’s an intermittent application of it

[solar maple]

and theseus just sort of dies slowly

[eager vortex]

yes I find it somewhat good for call actually

[solar maple]

oh yeah that too

especially vs bosses with call

smaller enemies tend to die pretty soon after you call them, so it still isn't that great there

maybe 1 extra jolted proc

[devout quiver]

Ye. It's a good boon. My main gripe with it is that it involves getting Demeter on a build that probably isn't cast focused.
Which is fine, she still has some good boons and all.

[eager vortex]

ty for the answers

I'm not going to use zeus call for this build so

I sold it

[devout quiver]

she just has some really stinky duos to offer you if you're not careful, is what I meant.

[eager vortex]

I rly like demeter's call

that's how I got cf

[shy plinth]

Barbs of the master huntress

Oh wait that's artemis

Dang demeter never had a long badass name

[eager vortex]

lol I got it again

game rly wants me to use it

[solemn pulsar]

Chill of the Frigid Matriarch

[eager vortex]

same build

[unique zephyr]

Cleared zag bow 40!

[hoary pasture]

Congrats

[unique zephyr]

Thanks! It was after 23 tries, since hades spear was over 40 I was surprised it wasn't more

[solar maple]

at this rate you'll get 40 heat all weapons before me :p

[mossy zinc]

Congratulations!

[bright mango]

How da faq am I supposed to do em4 with rama

[mossy zinc]

Are you supposed to do EM4 with Rama?

[bright mango]

I tried it at 45

Got double sneaked

[honest kernel]

go sicko mode

[bright mango]

I physically cannot beat him with rama

[mossy zinc]

So here's a strategy, you might wanna take notes:

(1) get Epic Poseidon's Aid,

[waxen relic]

From what i've heard there's a surefire method of em4 applicable for all Heat Levels: enough damage to phase within 2 seconds.

[mossy zinc]

(2) get poms on it,

(3) get Smoldering Air.

Bam, done.

[honest kernel]

rip current for good measure

[mossy zinc]

Yeah yeah. Now we're talking.

[eager vortex]

why do I keep assuming that spear's spin attack is special attack damn

[mossy zinc]

Works with AP2, too. You just gotta get the boons.

[bright mango]

This was AP0

[gaunt fiber]

Can you get infinite call duration with smoldering air and poseidon's aid

Rip current smoldering air

[waxen relic]

afaik call only recharges when not used

[gaunt fiber]

Oh the gauge won't charge right

Yeah

[mossy zinc]

I don't think Smoldering Air charges your Call while your Call is active tbh.

Yeah.

[gaunt fiber]

Would have been fun

[mossy zinc]

Might be different for different Calls, though.

[gaunt fiber]

Probably not effective enough to deal with TD and Hades though

[solemn pulsar]

all calls drain at different rates when using

and dont recharge until they are complete

the more instant ones like artemis/aphrodite still have a slow fall off after use

not as long as poseidon obviously

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah I know about these ones

Smoldering Arty is cool

[dire steppe]

ast do you think your GY call thing has any viability as a speedrun strat

[solemn pulsar]

nah it can only clear 1 wave

it is theoretically the fastest way to clear charon%

but you need some really good RNG

[gaunt fiber]

Lmao

Unfortunately no

[dire steppe]

Like in combination with whatever the hell you normally do for GY

[gaunt fiber]

I don't how important it could be

All I can tell is that GY gauge building is not that good

It's not Arthur but it's still mediocre

Unless you spin, but spinning is slow

[mossy zinc]

See, I don't figure out stuff like that. I get Smoldering Air, and mash my Call button, and my Call goes brrrrr.

Is my Call up? I don't know. But I know I will be pressing Call when it's up because I press Call all the time.

[gaunt fiber]

** P R E C I S I O N**

[solar maple]

I do think jesus christ guan yu would be a hilarious routed run though

not faster than nem though

as you could try to route as many 1 wave rooms as possible, and just blow them up

[devout quiver]

i instinctively mash the call button whenever i hear the sound effect

This usually has me accidentally using Dad Call before its fully charged

just too used to having Smoldering Air i think

[dire steppe]

I know GY is slow, I was referring to the GY speed record

like could the #1 GY time be call meme

[bright mango]

Bablo’s GY time is pretty frikin good

[solemn pulsar]

even some routed rooms can randomly roll extra enemy spawns

there's one room in the nem route that sometimes spawns an extra lout

[unique zephyr]

I’m going to need to grind EM4 to get 45 heat without using approval process or routine inspection, it seems like it would be worth it though

[mossy zinc]

It might be if you enjoy it.

[bright mango]

I still haven’t cleared em4 at 45

Bacchus I would get comfortable doing em4 at 40

[eager vortex]

did you clear em4 at 50

[bright mango]

No not yet

Farthest I’ve made it is end of second phase with eris

[eager vortex]

if I recall correctly

you've cleared 51 with hestia right

I thought that had em4

[mossy zinc]

Might have been hestia left.

[unique zephyr]

Good idea, that's what I'm doing now, with Hestia first because that's my best weapon

[bright mango]

It wasn’t em4

[eager vortex]

that's actually more impressive

you know

[bright mango]

Not really lol

Got really lucky

[eager vortex]

come on, you prolly had ap2

[bright mango]

Yeah

[mossy zinc]

Hestia is most people's best aspect for high heat when it's not Beowulf or Eris or Rama.

[true fable]

yup

its just so simple

[eager vortex]

I prefer em4 to ap so it's more impressive to me

lol

[true fable]

i should probably do 54 beo

[bright mango]

Ur telling me this isn’t lucky painkakke

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/811259823613673472/826933589882175492/image0.png

[eager vortex]

ap2, not ap1

[true fable]

just so hestia isnt my pb

[mossy zinc]

Gud aspects are gud.

[honest kernel]

Now that's a dash

👀

[true fable]

that looks ok pengy

[eager vortex]

it's average

[true fable]

my 53 might have been luckier with DD and hyper delivery

[gaunt fiber]

AP2 sorcery

[eager vortex]

not that lucky but not a bad build with ap2

[mossy zinc]

I liked playing Hestia back when no one was playing Hestia. Now that everyone plays Hestia, it bores me lol.

[true fable]

hipster

[eager vortex]

nya, it's time for you to use gilga

nobody uses that

[true fable]

ive always thought it to be a little bit boring

hey ive been using gilga a little

[mossy zinc]

I think I also just got somewhat burned out from doing boonless mirrorless Hestia.

It's. So. Bland.

[true fable]

it really is

[bright mango]

Wait how is this average. deadly strike, Hunter dash on ap2

This is the luckiest I’ve ever been

[true fable]

but it lets you think about dodge mechanics

[honest kernel]

hestia is boring but it just works so well

[true fable]

which i like

toffel love the new pfp

[eager vortex]

ds is common and no hazard bomb

[honest kernel]

I also love lady luck thx

[bright mango]

Ds rarity does not matter

[eager vortex]

in this case, yes

what if you were aiming for aphro

[bright mango]

Then it does

But this was shackle start

[mossy zinc]

I've played Gilgamesh since release though lol. I play all Malphon aspects.

[true fable]

ds rarity is still nice

[eager vortex]

maybe lucifer then

[mossy zinc]

I don't like that one honestly.

Pretty sure I got the first clear over 32 with Gilgamesh at 33; don't remember who got the first over 40. Might have been me, too. Maybe bablo?

[eager vortex]

also those hermes boons aren't very lucky, I'm saying it's an okay build for ap2 but not veery lucky

[honest kernel]

Yo real talk, Lucifer is an aspect I rarely see talked about ever

[eager vortex]

there's also the fact to consider that I hate ap2 and I barely use it

[shy plinth]

Webs says it's his favorite aspect

[honest kernel]

In speedruns, Eris gets the attention. In high heat, Hestia takes the crown

[honest kernel]

His Lucifer is super good

[shy plinth]

Yeah he knows what's up

[honest kernel]

But outside of him, rail specialists, and that one time Bablo decided to go on a rampage in anyheat speedruns

I don't see many mentions

[shy plinth]

It doesn't come up a lot yeah

[honest kernel]

It's not like the weapon's bad, it's good even

[eager vortex]

at least you didn't seed for aphro attack like I did on my 50 hestia and still got a decent build

[shy plinth]

And I don't think there's much conventional wisdom beyond hope you get triple bomb

It's also mostly visible as a meme aspect because Ronnie and super soaker

[honest kernel]

Yeah

[shy plinth]

But like Dio Luci is legit

[honest kernel]

It actually kinda is

[mossy zinc]

I remember there were a couple regulars here at one point who were enjoying Lucifer a lot.

[eager vortex]

I got 40 with lucifer thanks to zeus special plus triple bomb, becomes a very fun aspect to play that way

treated it like eris

[mossy zinc]

bablo thinks it's one of the best at 40, if I remember correctly.

[honest kernel]

I remember foxhope doing ares lucy 40+

or was that fake

[mossy zinc]

The sub 10 I did with it was kind of fun, so maybe I'll play with it more.

[shy plinth]

With luci?

[mossy zinc]

Yes.

[shy plinth]

Is that the only rail aspect you've had good sack rng with

[honest kernel]

triple bomb stuff is def very funny

[eager vortex]

with zeus sp. which makes them explode on themselves, very very funny

[mossy zinc]

I honestly don't remember lol. Why do you ask?

[shy plinth]

Because I remember you were cursed by Hestia

And rails in general

[mossy zinc]

Oh that was 32.

I think.

[shy plinth]

Oh you're talking about an anyheat

Never mind ignore me

[mossy zinc]

K that's what I like to do anyway.

[shy plinth]

Wow

That's what I get for admitting my keepsake preferences last night I guess

I need to do a heartbreak strike luci to make things right

[mossy zinc]

Indeed.

I don't think one will be enough.

[shy plinth]

Well we'll start there

[mossy zinc]

But you should definitely do that.

[eager vortex]

most of my victory screens have either an aphro attack or special

that's y nya "tolerates" me

I guess

[mossy zinc]

I know. They all get a 💕 from me.

[eager vortex]

ohhh so that's why

[mossy zinc]

Yes.

[bright mango]

Normally I get common frost strike so this was quite the change of pace

[unique zephyr]

Nice thing about EM4 pacts is that it's at least easier to get to Hades

[bright mango]

Definitely

[gaunt fiber]

Easier to go back to the house too

[eager vortex]

oh right your starter was shackle, yea it's good luck to get arte at first

[bright mango]

My first boon was electric shot

[eager vortex]

[bright mango]

It helped a lot tho

Bunch of savior rooms in tart

[true fable]

a bit late to the party but i love lucifer

lucifer was one of the most laid back 50s i did

[solar maple]

I decided I didn't really like shackles start for hestia

[solemn pulsar]

Splash dash babyyyy

Hestia does not need shackle damage in Tartarus

Even on cp1

[solar maple]

I'm too lazy to reset for dash

so I was starting either arty (2 cores good) or coinpurse lol

[bright mango]

I guess you could just switch to shackle in asphodel and it’s good to have poseidon in be pool

[eager vortex]

how could you boi

that hydra had a family

[eager vortex]

okay I had athena keepsake

and didn't get a single athena boon for the whole asphodel

and lemme guess, it won't work in elysium

nvm it does

each day you learn something new

[unique zephyr]

So when is the best time to use summons in EM4? Antos mainly, I use Meg too but Antos more lately

[solar maple]

probably either third phase to finish him off, 2nd phase in a tight spot, or 1st phase to try to finish him off with scary adds

doing it in 2/3 phase lets both hits hit hades instead of an add, which is nice, but 1st phase is hard

[kindred panther]

which is better going into the hades fight on 32 heat: 10% bronze skin or 90% sure footing?

[bright mango]

Depends

Do you have HS on?

[unique zephyr]

Managed to lose to EM4 with Hestia at 40 with Smoldering Air Zeus

[kindred panther]

which is HS again

[unique zephyr]

this fight is hard

[bright mango]

Heightened security

[kindred panther]

no

[bright mango]

Bronze skin probably

[unique zephyr]

I didn't even make it to phase 3

[bright mango]

Oof

[kindred panther]

k thank you

[bright mango]

I’ve thrown two em4 runs in the past two days that were so free

One with beo

And another with zoos shield with splitting and hyper delivery

I blame both on pots

[unique zephyr]

I got hit by Cerberus

100 damage with HL5 it turns out

I thought bottom right was the safe spot

but I guess I didn't get to the right place in time?

[bright mango]

Just call

To save yourself

[unique zephyr]

does call also give iframes or just summon

[bright mango]

I-frames

[solar maple]

call also gives I frames

[unique zephyr]

just for the length of the call flash or longer

i'm not sure when to time the call

[bright mango]

Just the start

[unique zephyr]

or a summon for that matter

[solar maple]

the "safe spot"

is relative

[bright mango]

Cerberus is random

[solar maple]

more like "safer spot"

or "less deadly spot"

[bright mango]

@bronze viper

[bronze viper]

It's pretty much exactly when you press the button.

[unique zephyr]

Ah ok

I also made hte mistake of taking acorn

when do I take spearpoint vs tooth

[bronze viper]

Never

[solar maple]

hm I wouldn't call acorn a mistake

[bright mango]

Spearpoint is exclusively for retrash

[unique zephyr]

I took acorn because I am conditioned from EM3

[bright mango]

I take acorn

100% of the time

[bronze viper]

All of my splitting bolt runs are irredeemable disasters. Glad I'm not alone lol

[solar maple]

look at what you get hit by -- if you are gettin hit by hades several times at the start of the fight, acorn will be the best

[bright mango]

Idk what I was doing

I made it to the middle of third phase

[solar maple]

if you are getting hit by adds but dodging dad otherwise with fantastic consistency, and have a large health pool, that is when spearpoint is good

[bright mango]

I can’t use this weapon lol

[solar maple]

if you have the first thing but not as much health, tooth is good

[bronze viper]

Spearpoint is a great keepsake for a situation that doesn't really exist. Lots of consistent small to medium damage hits

[solar maple]

at least that is what I gather

[bright mango]

Ur right

Retrash is probably afraid of getting comboed by adds

[eager vortex]

40+ em4 is one of the most unfair fights I've seen in a game prolly

[bright mango]

I can do it 40, but at 45, things just change

[bronze viper]

It's nice against poison and snakestones, but a disaster against big rats and dad

[gaunt fiber]

Idk if it's unfair

Prolly a bit sometimes

[bright mango]

Pots are unfair

[bronze viper]

The random summons are definitely occasionally unfair.

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah good point

[kindred panther]

sweet it worked

[bright mango]

Especially with a shield. What happens is that I block dads lasers, and then he pushes me into a breaking pot

I lose atleast 1 SD to a pot

[eager vortex]

I just completed 45 em4 with eris, not posting it yet cuz I don't want to spam the channel

and let me say

em4 is just bs

deserves to be cheesed like I did yesterday

third try lol

both deaths in 3rd phase

an invisible spear coming from darkness

[solar maple]

did you get cluster rockets this time? lol

[gaunt fiber]

No worries

[kindred panther]

his third life is as hard as his first two combined

[eager vortex]

yes, that's the reason I was successful

and even then it was frustrating

I had 68 hp left

one more thing I really don't like aside from phase 3 is

after calling cerberus he almost doesn't give you any time to dodge

all of this is for 40+ btw

[kindred panther]

so I am working through all the aspects on 32 heat. So far I've cleared:
sword: Poseidon, Arthur
spear: Zag
shield: Beowulf
bow: Chiron, Rama
fists: Zag, Demeter
rail: Eris, Hestia

what low-hanging fruit is left besides Chaos? For some reason I have trouble with TD when using Chaos...

[solar maple]

if you didn't have trouble with zag spear most of the other spears shouldn't be too bad

also you can take td2 with chaos, even if I will resent you for it

[eager vortex]

chaos is pretty easy to clear 32 with

[kindred panther]

I got lucky with zag spear... like 2 or 3 purple chaos special boons and explosive special throw hammer, 30% special speed and good poseidon special

it was... easy. one of those runs that carries you

[solar maple]

I do think chaos is good for 32 heat

it was my first 32 heat clear back in the day

[kindred panther]

what is a good build for it?

[solar maple]

zeus, ares, and dio are all good on special

[kindred panther]

maybe I'm missing something here

never tried zeus special

I usually find Ares better in the early stages and dio better in the later ones so I prefer dio usually

[solar maple]

if you like the special build with spear (which only really works with exploding launcher imo) hades spear is good

but that's hammer reliant

[eager vortex]

idk what you guys find in chaos with dio special

I absolutely fail with it

[solar maple]

hm I got my 50 with dio attack lol

tried to get dio special, but AP1 didn't let me

[kindred panther]

good dot damage, unending +1 scaling

[solar maple]

or AP2

[eager vortex]

zeus and ares are pretty good but dio iunno

[kindred panther]

I think I've had dio special up to level 12 before lol

or 11 or something

[solar maple]

dio special is quite a bit of damage if you let it tick

[kindred panther]

not on 32 heat but

I'll try zeus special

[eager vortex]

prolly need curse of nausea too ?

[solar maple]

a full shotgun with common lv 1 dio special is 200 damage over 4 seconds from the hangover

[kindred panther]

you do poseidon attack and aim for the duo?

[bright mango]

Noooo

[solar maple]

no

[bright mango]

Get pos call or something

[solar maple]

tbh lots of random duos are good with dio special

[bright mango]

(If you want duo)

[kindred panther]

I mean sea storm

[solar maple]

ares/arty duos are nice

[bright mango]

^

[kindred panther]

that is nice on any aspect

[solar maple]

oh for zeus? even then you want pos call to get it

your basic attack triggers sea storm anyway

because it has knockback

[kindred panther]

okay... what for attack then

athena?

[eager vortex]

ares for nausea maybe

[solar maple]

tbh just whatever you find

[bright mango]

Aphro

I like aphro

[solar maple]

pretty much anything works

[kindred panther]

aphro

[eager vortex]

aphro is nice too

[kindred panther]

I'm gonna try zeus special

[eager vortex]

oh

well get splitting bolt if you can

[solar maple]

with zeus special, most of your scaling comes from more zeus boons

[bright mango]

Aphro is also good for smoldering

[solar maple]

double strike, splitting bolt, and jolted are all great

[eager vortex]

that's basically what I did earlier

aphro attack, zeus special, smoldering and splitting

[solar maple]

getting a good attack can be good with attack hammers especially

[eager vortex]

zeus call too

[solar maple]

for exmple charged shot + arty/aphro attack is big damage

[eager vortex]

I don't like charged shot on chaos but that's personal preference

[solar maple]

you lose some safety and maneuverability from the rush, but it is easily the highest damage hammer

other than maybe explosive return

[eager vortex]

oh yes explosive return is nice

I usually go explosive + sudden if I can

[light stag]

You gain safety with the shot

You're not committing yourself to a bulrush every time you raise your shield

[bright mango]

Safety with charged shot?

Wat

[solar maple]

I disagree. With charged shot when you start blocking, you commit to exactly 1 location

[light stag]

You can stay safely back, shield and also make ranged attacks

[solar maple]

without it, you can go in any direction

and get out of danger

[light stag]

you can go in any direction without shielding

[solar maple]

well yes, but you need to block to do damage with chaos

again, I quite like charged shot

it is just a bit less safe imo

[eager vortex]

iunno about safety honestly but it limits maneuverability

I like it on beo

[solar maple]

safety = maneuverability

[eager vortex]

I guess, in a way

[solar maple]

also, I play chaos with ruthless reflex, so losing the bull rush hurts me more

[eager vortex]

more range than dash and invul from front during the rush

I just like spamming rush + special on chaos so naturally I don't prefer cs

but with a +% attack yea it should do nice dmg

[solar maple]

tbh a lot of the time with cs just spamming attack is more dps

[unique zephyr]

I did Hades spear for 40, shouldn't be too bad on 32

[solar maple]

especially from long range

[unique zephyr]

I did that for 32 as well

[bright mango]

pseudo, RR on chaos is brilliant

[unique zephyr]

I only did hades spear for spear but should be easier with zag spear with the right hammers

well, non flurry jab zag spear

[eager vortex]

why no flurry

is good

[unique zephyr]

exploding and serrated is ideal (serrated dangeorus) but I did 40 with the spin hammers

Hades doesn't get flurry jab

[eager vortex]

yeah

[unique zephyr]

the only reason it's worse than Zag spear

[solemn pulsar]

Nah explosive and charged

[solar maple]

exploding charged is ideal

[solemn pulsar]

Serrated can get bent

[unique zephyr]

huh, I should try charged skewer more on non guan yu

[eager vortex]

serrated gives good damage potential though

[solar maple]

well charged is only good with exploding

[unique zephyr]

oh, I wasn't familiar with that combo

[solar maple]

but if you already have exploding it's fantastic

[unique zephyr]

I didn't know those two interacted

in a particular way

how do you even get offered it? seems like they'd interact weirdly

[solar maple]

well charged is usually mediocre because base spear special sucks

[unique zephyr]

but idk

[solar maple]

but with exploding it isn't a laggy pile of trash

yeah mb

[unique zephyr]

ah ok, I never got offered charged skewer after exploding launcher

[eager vortex]

it's sad that anything zag spear does

[unique zephyr]

I should try it when I get it offered

[eager vortex]

gy does better

[bright mango]

Guan yu is perfection

[unique zephyr]

what makes guan yu good

[eager vortex]

gy special build just destroys anything

[kindred panther]

I hate gy buy prolly cuz I suck

[eager vortex]

high damage

pretty much

[bright mango]

Pierce

[solar maple]

GY special is strong but it dies in 1 hit

[eager vortex]

zag spear is focused on special build but gy is just far ahead

well yes except that disadvantage

which forces some gitting gud

[kindred panther]

I haven't even tried gy on 32 yet. zag spear is the only one I have cleared on 32

[bright mango]

I can’t beat 45+ guan yu without patty

I’m one shot to dad

I just can’t

Lol

[eager vortex]

I mean if you want flurry jab just use achilles

zag spear is mehhhhh

[kindred panther]

pfft I prolly couldn't clear tartarus with gy on 45+

[eager vortex]

imo all the zag aspects are meh

except bow

[kindred panther]

I like the zag fists too

[bright mango]

Zag shield is great

[eager vortex]

[unique zephyr]

I really like zag bow’s rhythm

[kindred panther]

oh cool. I never knew/noticed that if your TD expires, the next stage you get a fresh 5:00 and not (5:00 - timeYouWentOver)

[chilly yarrow]

That's nice

[kindred panther]

Nice the Chaos w/ Zeus special worked brilliantly. It was actually pretty easy, and not with particularly great boon quality.

Now my 32 clears are:

sword: Poseidon, Arthur
spear: Zag
shield: Chaos, Beowulf
bow: Chiron, Rama
fists: Zag, Demeter
rail: Eris, Hestia

I've done most the easier ones haha. Maybe Zeus would be next?

Zag bow? or one of the spears that's not GY

Hera maybe...

[unique zephyr]

I did zag bow for 32, it isn’t that bad

Zag bow is the only bow I’ve done so far for high heat

[celest grail]

GY isnt bad for 32 heat, especially if you get charged skewer

[mossy zinc]

Zeus, Zag Bow, Guan Yu, and Hera are all pretty easy at 32.

[nocturne vortex]

I've only done well once with GY need to find a good build for it

practice makes perfect

[mossy zinc]

This, basically. #h1-builds-and-combat message

[kindred panther]

Nice! Just got the Zag bow on 32. I never usually use it either, I wasn't expecting that to work.

Now my 32 clears are:

sword: Poseidon, Arthur
spear: Zag
shield: Chaos, Beowulf
bow: Zag, Chiron, Rama
fists: Zag, Demeter
rail: Eris, Hestia

woo woot! I think I've got more done than I don't have done now

or... maybe half way

[mossy zinc]

12/24.

Congratulations!

[kindred panther]

sweet. too bad I've done all the easy ones haha. thanks

hehe looking at my permanent record, I've never completed a single run with Hades or Zag gun on any heat level

1 clear apiece with zero heat

[mossy zinc]

I think Zag Shield and Zeus are much better than Chaos, and Hera is still #1 at 32 Heat for bows.

You can still get very broken cast builds at 32 with Hera very easily.

[kindred panther]

hera, really? what build should I try?

[mossy zinc]

Crush Shot in Tartarus, then go for Snow Burst + Ravenous Will.

[kindred panther]

hmm ok

I am kind of intrigued you said zag shield. another aspect I never usually use

[mossy zinc]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/829690234346274836/Hades_2100.png?width=770&height=433 https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/828894137209192448/Hades_2026.png?width=770&height=433 https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/824686127491448862/Hades_1818.png?width=770&height=433

Something like this, basically.

Mirage Shot and Phalanx Shot are also great pick-ups for sure.

[kindred panther]

hunter's mark

I see they highlighted that one

[mossy zinc]

they = me lol

[kindred panther]

oh hehe

well, thank you

[sour silo]

Haha thanks for sharing

I literally started 32 heat attempts today

[kindred panther]

what build do you suggest for zag shield?

I never ever use it

[mossy zinc]

Heartbreak Strike or Deadly Strike and look for Charged Shot or Pulverizing Blow.

[kindred panther]

ok. Hey @sour silo check the pinned messages, there is a lot of info that helped me there

[mossy zinc]

Heartbreak Strike + Zeus' Aid + Smoldering Air or Deadly Strike + Passion Dash + Heart Rend can be super strong.

[sour silo]

ty

[kindred panther]

like for example to use stubborn defiance instead of death defiance

[mossy zinc]

Also, Zag Spear is usually considered the worst spear except that you can get Flurry Jab on it, which is broken.

[kindred panther]

that was the big one that really got me going on clearing 32 heats

well I cleared the zag spear hehe

got a lucky build. ton of great chaos boons and the right hammers

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, you should be fine with the other spears.

Honestly, if you've done so many aspects at 32 already, your fundamentals can just carry any aspect.

Might have to pick up a few things here and there with an unorthodox aspect before you're comfortable.

[kindred panther]

it's zag sword, nemesis sword, and zag rail that I fear I'll end up having big trouble with

and possibly gilgamesh

I don't like gilgamesh

[mossy zinc]

Gilgamesh can be difficult until you get the one run that's just buttery smooth somehow.

[kindred panther]

for some reason, I feel like that happens with just about any aspect from time to time

[mossy zinc]

Zag Rail is still super strong. It's a rail. You can still get Cluster Rockets on it.

[kindred panther]

what do you think the hardest aspect is then

[mossy zinc]

You still build god gauge super fast.

[halcyon flame]

what's the best dash for dash-only gilga? tidal?

[mossy zinc]

Hmmm. Probably Zag Sword, Nemesis, and Gilgamesh?

[halcyon flame]

nemesis is pretty hard

stupid powerful if used well but can still be extremely dangerous to use from my experience

i've had my closest calls with it

[mossy zinc]

Maybe Talos, too.

[halcyon flame]

talos?

[mossy zinc]

Well, Talos is mostly just Zag Fists with no Dodge and a bad Dash-Upper.

Mind you, I still don't think Talos 32 is particularly more difficult than other aspects. Just like if I had to pick one for 32 that's among the hardest, maybe that?

The thing is that at 32, you can easily just do a Cast build with anything and ignore your aspect lol.

[halcyon flame]

i have yet to try blizzard shot talos

heard it's pretty good

[mossy zinc]

If you don't know what to do with it, just do that lol.

[kindred panther]

what is the typical "cast build" prototype?

[mossy zinc]

Good to see my builds still spread far and wide.

[chilly yarrow]

I’ve seen a nutty Demeter cast build with the tracking Artemis DuoBoon, but idk how that compares to others

[kindred panther]

why demeter?

ooh oh

you mean demeter boon

not aspect

[chilly yarrow]

oh yeah, that

[mossy zinc]

There's no one Cast build.

Crush Shot + Snow Burst
Lightning Phalanx
Electric Shot and... more lightning boons and poms
Flood Flare + Mirage Shot
Blizzard Shot
Crystal Clarity
Hunting Blades + Vicious Cycle
Ice Wine + Scintillating Feast

Those are like the most popular and effective ones.

Pure Cast builds aren't as popular and varied anymore as they were in Nighty Night when you could still very easily get +1 ammo or Cast bonus damage from Master Chaos (because their boon pool was much much smaller).

But they can still be very effective.

[edgy arrow]

you missed flood flare + mirage shot

[halcyon flame]

ice wine 😔

speaking of cast builds maybe i'll try slicing flare beo

[edgy arrow]

lol do it

[mossy zinc]

Lies and slander.

[edgy arrow]

ah clearly it was there the whole time

i didn’t see it through the mirage

[mossy zinc]

You could also unmap your Cast button. That feels like it would accomplish similar results.

[edgy arrow]

lmao

yeah...

[mossy zinc]

Could be worse, though.

[edgy arrow]

me and pseudo did some tests and it’s actually surprisingly okay in tart

like, bad

but workable

[mossy zinc]

Could be Icy Flare.

[edgy arrow]

it breaks down in aspho tho

icy flare at least gives you easy access to snow burst

[mossy zinc]

It does fall apart in Asphodel lol.

[edgy arrow]

it’s something

yeah

[mossy zinc]

You might want Privileged Status for Icy Flare.

[edgy arrow]

but why

[mossy zinc]

8s status curse is perfect for Privileged Status.

[halcyon flame]

going on a really dumb run like slicing flare beo means i can be like "this is horrible" and not reset

[edgy arrow]

sure but in the other hand it’s privileged status

[mossy zinc]

Any status curse Attack or Dash applies that very easily with Snow Burst, and Killing Freeze will get a lot of extra damage, too.

Jolted + Cold Fusion and Chill is also amazing for Privileged Status.

[kindred panther]

You're right Hera is really easy. I didn't clear it cuz I didn't find the Satyr sack until the fourth room but that's no problem

[halcyon flame]

just saw somebody say beowulf is hot garbage on steam forums

this is exactly why steam discussions users' opinions do not matter

[honest kernel]

it def feels like garbage if you dont know how to use it because its sluggish

[halcyon flame]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/761220441049661442/830727536416784394/unknown.png

[honest kernel]

[edgy arrow]

lmao

[true fable]

lol

[halcyon flame]

"bull rush build" yeah that's probs the issue

[true fable]

i wonder how that would do

just mino sudden rush

deadly strike

stack attack dmg

[halcyon flame]

minotaur rush on beo actually viable!??!/1?1?1?1?!?1?!?1

it would certainly do better than a special build nowadays

[edgy arrow]

memes aside the special build is actually good

it’s worse than a cast build, and highly hammer dependant, but it’s not bad at all

retrash held the beo wr for ages with a special build

until pseudo came along and fixed that

[halcyon flame]

400% charged flight moment

[edgy arrow]

nope

you’re thinking of Nyaanyaa

retrash held the record with current charged flight

[true fable]

well he also got the two best special hammers when he needed them on AP2

[edgy arrow]

that’s what i’m saying; it’s still okay

oh for sure

[halcyon flame]

???

[true fable]

watch his run spammy

its interesting

[halcyon flame]

is it high heat?

[edgy arrow]

yeah hammer dependence is definitely a super valid critique of the build

[halcyon flame]

oh wait this is the high heat channel

[edgy arrow]

yeah heat wr

back then

it’s 51

should be on the spreadsheet

[halcyon flame]

i'll probably check it out later

[solar maple]

I don't have wr anymore. But it's still with a cast build now

[edgy arrow]

are you gonna take it back, or done with the beo heat grind?

next number is 56, which is pretty intense

[true fable]

pseudo and i have been making some 57 attempts

[solar maple]

if I take it back it will be with 57/58

[true fable]

56 feels cheesy

[solar maple]

not 56

[edgy arrow]

nice

cheesy lmao

[solar maple]

I haven't done attempts in a little while though

well 55 was no hell mode

[true fable]

^

[edgy arrow]

don’t think it’s possible to cheese anything at that level

[true fable]

thats what i mean by cheesy

[edgy arrow]

oh i see

[true fable]

its just the same pact but with PL

[edgy arrow]

that makes sense i guess

[true fable]

since youre taking CP anyway

[edgy arrow]

for sure

[solar maple]

I was doing 58 attempts, but I'll probably go down to 57 if I try again

[edgy arrow]

no AP2 nice prolly

[true fable]

57 is CP1 i think

not no AP2

LOL

[edgy arrow]

huh?

isn’t 57 AP1 RI2?

[solar maple]

I'll try both probably

DC2 CP2 timer is beatable, it's just a bit rough

[true fable]

DC0 RI2 CP1 IMO

[edgy arrow]

huh okay

AP2 beo sounds absolutely insane to me, but there aren’t any good choices at 57 anyways i guess

[solar maple]

I've gotten to heroes a few times on 58

[true fable]

im hoping these RI2 attempts at 50 are good RI2 practice

[solar maple]

wait you're doing RI2 beo at 50???

[true fable]

nah

just meant general 50 stuff

[solar maple]

ah ok good

[true fable]

y?

[solar maple]

RI stinky

[edgy arrow]

^

[true fable]

maybe that is the next steap

practice with RI2 at 50

then add EM4

then add AP2

[edgy arrow]

i should get back on the beo heat grind sometime

not the ridiculous numbers y’all are going for ofc

[solar maple]

now that I got fresh file I have no excuse for not grinding beo heat

[edgy arrow]

i’ve just been messing around with easy stuff recently lol

oh you cleared fresh file? nice!

[solar maple]

yeah a little while ago

[true fable]

i must say it felt nice one shotting my mom pom beo attempt at 50 lmao

[edgy arrow]

i’m so out of the loop lol

[solar maple]

which cast did you get again?

[true fable]

pash flare

[solar maple]

tbh I now think it's probably the best cast for clearing 50

[true fable]

probs

[edgy arrow]

at 50 you can still luck into mirage tho

(citation: my 50)

but i see the argument

[solar maple]

pash flare is just better vs em4

which is the hardest part of the run

[edgy arrow]

hmm yeah

that’s a really good point

[true fable]

the thing about mirage

is that its not that it makes flood flare better than pash flare

at bossing

its to mitigate its bossing weakness

[edgy arrow]

there’s also wave pounding tho

which is another boon you gotta luck into ofc

[solar maple]

the main upside of flood flare over pash flare is better aoe and so better waveclear

[true fable]

wave pounding does not exist lol

[edgy arrow]

haha fair

[solar maple]

but beo really doesn't have a problem with waveclear, until you run like DC2 lol

[edgy arrow]

yeah for sure it’s mostly the room clear advantage

[true fable]

i think it might be better for DC2

[solar maple]

timing out on 50 beo is never really the problem if you play reasonably well and don't get 4 sacked

[true fable]

i ran it on my first 50 with DC2 LUL

[edgy arrow]

maybe i’ll try some passion flare 50s or something to get back into playing this game for real

see what the difference is

[solar maple]

once I started forcing demeter over artemis that was the beginning of the end for flood flare for me haha

[edgy arrow]

are you still doing shackle beo?

or are you actually forcing aphro or something

[true fable]

mom pom?

i like mom pom so far

[edgy arrow]

why do you like mom pom so much lol

[solar maple]

mom pom for ap2

[edgy arrow]

i’ve tried to understand

it just seems worse than shackle to me

[solar maple]

with AP2 getting higher than level 2 cast is really really hard

mom pom fixes that with ~2 early free poms

[edgy arrow]

getting a cast at all is really really hard

guess you can reset for that tho

[solar maple]

true. It is big pain to reset

I was doing RI0 originally which made it a bit less bad

but for 58 I need RI now

[edgy arrow]

yeah...

literally impossible to have RI0 at that point

[solar maple]

lol yeah I know

56 heat RI0 felt doable

that was my 56 pact for a while

[edgy arrow]

that actually sounds kind of fun

anything with RI0 just feels so nice, even if i’m dying

like, sure i might be timing out at furies but look at all the boons i have

[solar maple]

yeah sometimes you just get 45 DC2 witches in c12

and you die

that is not an exaggeration

I counted

[edgy arrow]

i believe it

if there was a super version of BP that made everything armoured i would take it without question

[solar maple]

it was a big room too. Took like 1:30 igt

[edgy arrow]

oof

when you walk in and it’s like, yeah i’ve got 30 seconds for this room, easy

then the first witch spawns in

[solar maple]

yeah I walked in at like 3:20

left at like 4:50

[edgy arrow]

big oof

i’ve probably lost more runs to BP2 seeker cloner witches but man do the naked ones in c12 feel worse

[solar maple]

I'll give 57 some attempts tomorrow

with AP2 and with AP1

[edgy arrow]

psyched for the day when i can say beowulf is as good at heat as hestia and checks notes ... nemesis? damnit retrash

[solar maple]

lmao

I mean 60 beo is technically possible

if you start mom pom, get a good cast, then get early snow burst

then play super well

[edgy arrow]

i can imagine it happening

whether it does or not is another question

[solar maple]

I won't be doing that though

good cast with mom pom is already ~1/8

snow burst in tart with AP2 +RI is like 1/20 or 1/30 or something

[true fable]

lol

pain is getting that kind of run and choking it in like c8

[solar maple]

yeah LOL

even with that start my wr would not be very high

but it's doable

the reason mom pom is good with AP2 is lv 4 athena cast is way better than lv 2 passion flare

[dire steppe]

hi everyone

[gaunt fiber]

Hi rigged, corruptor of AP1

[thorn jay]

Been a while since I last played this game (3-4 months) but I can't believe I still got 32 heat down with FO2. I've never done 32 heat FO2 lmao. Maybe I can move up to 40 heat now

[mossy zinc]

You can do it!

[thorn jay]

Hopefully! Will try again after some life errands lmao

[true fiber]

is it possible to use heat with a weapon that hasnt beat the game yet?

[shy plinth]

Sure

You won't get extra bounties though

The game always gives you bonuses as though you are playing at the lowest uncleared heat

So if you kill meg at 0 heat, die, and then jump to 3 heat or whatever, meg will still give you darkness

[true fiber]

ok, thanks

[solemn pulsar]

0 heat is actually different

It’s separate form 1

From

[unique zephyr]

What kind of build should I do practice EM4 fights on? Should I use a really broken build a really scuffed one or in between?

Just not sure which would give me the most return on time, once I get 6 x 40 I’ll grind 40 heat EM4 fights

0 heat bounties can be missed if you do heat bounties they’re the only exception

Why is EM4 such a gigantic wall for me lol

[solar maple]

I would say good survivability, medium damage is optimal for practice

you don't want to just be able to dps through the phases without paying too much attention, but you want to live long enough to actually learn phases 2/3

it's not that important though, you can practice with almost any build

[mossy zinc]

Make three saves, practice all of them.

[bronze viper]

I would say the "perfect" practice save has plenty of life, 2 DDs, reasonable damage, 1 good hammer, a good call, no duos (unless your target build literally requires its duo like ME), and most importantly, no movement abilities. No extra dashes or Hyper Sprint.

[mossy zinc]

High HP, low damage.
High damage, low HP.
High HP, high damage.

That prepares you for different situations.

[bronze viper]

That way you can maximize the number of mistakes you make and pare down the number of DDs you can/have to use.

Over time

[mossy zinc]

Low HP, low damage won't even make it to EM4, so that's not worth practicing tbh except for endurance.

[bronze viper]

The good Call is nice because you'll often have one so it's nice to practice iframes, but it's trivial to just practice without pressing the call button.

[mossy zinc]

Three 40 Heat attempts, three wins. Turning off my livesplits and just doing clears instead of trying to speedrun was a good idea.

I've just been getting constantly frustrated with my time.

Also, shoutouts to skipping Elysium mid-shop for a Lady Athena trial and forgetting to revive for DDs.

[eager vortex]

daily reminder that em4 is bs

[bright mango]

@bronze viper You were right. When I don't get splitting, I don't choke em4

[ashen garnet]

HP Damage good, me safe

[hoary pasture]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/828345223180583002/830862976831455232/unknown.png Stupid urn >:c

[bright mango]

[mossy zinc]

Boonless? Nice!

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.

[distant cradle]

Dam

At least hammers r still good

[mossy zinc]

Very good, yes.

[hoary pasture]

I had 600hp I felt really safe :c

[bright mango]

600!!!

wow

[hoary pasture]

I think I had 575 to be exact

But yes

Whenever I have a really good attempt I feel like not trying again lol, maybe I lower that HL and put it into CF

[bright mango]

Tbh AP1 shouldn’t hurt with boonless runs

[solar maple]

it does make hammers worse, but seems very worth it

harder to get good combos like flurry twin

[mossy zinc]

We had some discussion that AP1 should not count towards the heat for boonless runs because all it does is increase the chance to brick your run, but we never formalized the rule.

[bright mango]

Oh

Fo2 and HL2 might be worth it

[hoary pasture]

Id also hate getting my cast locked away because of ap

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/828345223180583002/830873550834892830/234.png ill try this in a bit

[mossy zinc]

That's for 32 Heat?

[hoary pasture]

Yes

[shy plinth]

That pact seems unnecessarily difficult

[mossy zinc]

Oh right, for your boonless attempt lol. You're the same person.

[unique zephyr]

Why not TD3

[shy plinth]

Oh we're boonlessing

Ignore me

[mossy zinc]

TD3 is fine. If you look at your time in your previous run, you were definitely on TD3 pace even with JS1.

[hoary pasture]

It was 3 sack aswell

Okay then TD3 no JS

[mossy zinc]

EM2 TD3 or CF0 JS0 TD3 is what I would go for, I think.

Although, I guess CF0 is not that important since you'll be selling boons.

[chilly yarrow]

BP2 scares me

[hoary pasture]

That sounds good to me

I was thinking something like this

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/828345223180583002/830874827514445884/234.png

[mossy zinc]

That looks good.

It's probably just a matter of time until you get it, anyway.

[hoary pasture]

Any opinions on Fiery vs Shadow for Zag bow? I feel like Fiery is nicer for room clearing sometimes but maybe unnecessary? I sometimes try to go out my way for backstabs with Shadow Presence on so I dont really like using it

[honest kernel]

I usually take shadow on bows

[mossy zinc]

Fiery Presence is way faster for clear speed.

Shadow Presence will likely do a lot more in boss fights.

I pretty much always take Fiery Presence for Zag Bow nowadays, but I also generally get much faster times than I used to, so it plays well into that.

[hoary pasture]

Fair enough

ty

[mossy zinc]

When Fiery Presence is the difference between taking 2 or 3 shots for one type of enemy, that's 1 more shot for that enemy all throughout that biome.

Unless you find a pom or something to make up for the gap.

One Dash-Strike Power Shot is about half a second.

So that's at least half a second more for all those enemies, and more enemies will be on screen more of the time, which means you're at greater risk of taking damage.

And while backstab damage is nice for bosses, I actually prefer a good timer, so that I don't need to rush the fight.

@honest kernel what aspects do you still need to do at 40+?

[honest kernel]

zag sword, nemesis, poseidon, zag shield, zeus, beo

shields should be easy

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, I think so. m done with shields now.

Zag Rail, Lucifer, Zag Spear, and Zag Sword are left for me.

[honest kernel]

i took a break from 24x40 because I tried to go for 50

[mossy zinc]

Oh nice.

[honest kernel]

no luck yet but im gonna practice more soon Ithink

also actually learning sword might be a pain

[mossy zinc]

m I trying to make sure m the first woman to get 24x40? Why, not me.

I think speedrunning sword is good for learning sword.

I finally managed an Excalibur run today at 40 that didn't time out lol.

Before I practiced speedruns, my 40 Heat Excalibur runs were all very bad.

I think I got a 5-sack, too, and still finished the run sub 20.

Easily my slowest aspect, probably.

[honest kernel]

maybe i'll get it before you then

also congratzs

[mossy zinc]

Ty ty. 💕

[honest kernel]

yeah I think I just did arthur with TD2

honestly the double dash strike combo with normal sword feels finnicky

[mossy zinc]

Might be close. I have a 3-win streak going, and two of them were sub 14.

[honest kernel]

anyway gl

[mossy zinc]

Ty! Taking a break to eat something lol.

[honest kernel]

yeah im not gonna do any runs today so you might just win anyway heh

[mossy zinc]

@solar maple's tips for Excalibur helped somewhat tbh. Also, I learned recently that backstabs are always registered from the direction Zagreus is facing. So you can reliably backstab enemies with your third swing by turning into the same direction they're facing.

[honest kernel]

excalibur was def more accesible for me than the other swords

poseidon might be easy because I can focus on cast

[mossy zinc]

Poseidon works best for me, yeah.

[devout quiver]

i can't seem to succeed with any sword besides nem

idk why

[unique zephyr]

24 x 32 seems like a good goal after 6 x 40

For me I mean, the only thing is I suck at all swords

[bronze viper]

I thought I was good enough to try 50 Rama in a car on joycons. I am not.

Starting reps for the big boy project. 56/57 Rama les go.

[mossy zinc]

Read the Sword Combos/Technique part here. That might help you. https://www.speedrun.com/hades/guide/0oado#ch1_Sword_Combos_Technique

[eager vortex]

wow I got me in tart

never happened b4

this run is already a win

[mossy zinc]

Oh nice.

The cursed Tartarus ME.

[hoary pasture]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/828345223180583002/830890627175546881/unknown.png

[mossy zinc]

Close!

[hoary pasture]

Indeed

[eager vortex]

is me + curse of longing a good combo

[mossy zinc]

Not really. You want one or the other.

[eager vortex]

oki

[true fable]

you really want one

LOL

the other isnt really desirable

unless youre running gilgamesh

[mossy zinc]

What? Curse of Longing is very good.

If you start with Doom, you'll look for ME, obviously.

If you start with Weak, picking up Curse of Longing can be very good.

[true fable]

its like

pretty mediocre

unless youre running some sort of hit and run build

[mossy zinc]

I mean it's hit and run towards the next enemy while Doom/Curse of Longing kills off everything behind you.

[merry otter]

That's how you're supposed to play doom, outside of ME cheese

[mossy zinc]

It's x1.75 Doom damage on any enemy that's Weak, more if you have Empty Inside.

And her boons do high damage, unlike Lady Athena's.

[true fable]

ive seen only one build find any success with CoL

then again ME also doesnt see much success at 50

[mossy zinc]

People underrate Curse of Longing because ME exists tbh.

[true fable]

probably

also heart rend

but

heart rend overrated

[eager vortex]

you sure about that

[true fable]

yes

[eager vortex]

[true fable]

it does nothing for 90% of your run

[unique zephyr]

What if you have zag bow though

Heart rend does stuff as soon as you get it then

[bright mango]

What he’s talking about it that it only really matters for bosses

[unique zephyr]

I think curse of longing is underrated because ares sucks as a god

Oooh ok

[bright mango]

Since 150% is overkill on every enemy

[unique zephyr]

Yeah the extra crit damage doesn’t matter that often in normal rooms

[eager vortex]

there are many mini boss rooms

[unique zephyr]

sword 40 is so hard (Poseidon sword)

[hoary pasture]

Phalanx?

[eager vortex]

lemme see what I used for 40

lol

phalanx shot lv. 10 + greater recall