Because Bruiser was broken, and Bruiser Snakestones were the worst.
#h1-high-heat-strategies
mossy zinc
devout quiver
make it Dire Snakestones and I'm in
ashen garnet
Does Smoldering works with the Sigil of the Dead ? 
solar maple
if you sell your call then equip sigil it does do something
in that you no longer can use your call 
( it used to work back before the dad call nerf, though not a prereq, you had to sell -> equip)
gaunt fiber
Guan Yu is a rather melee aspect
ashen garnet
Aw, I expected some hidden feature/interaction since the maxed sigil starts at 30% 
solar maple
arthur aotw is going to be scary
I'll probably just go for sub 10 any heat + 45 heat clear
gaunt fiber
Gotta learn how to swing that sword
solar maple
50 seems rough
halcyon flame
Because Bruiser was broken, and Bruiser Snakestones were the worst.
what's up with nighty night? something about the update in early access?
ember bronze
Just high HP?
mossy zinc
The update after Nighty Night nerfed Bruiser and finetuned FO and stuff.
halcyon flame
bruiser already sucks. you're telling me it used to be even worse?
mossy zinc
Way worse lol.
halcyon flame
if i wasn't lazy as all hell it would be fun to try to learn modding in new levels for heat modifiers
solar maple
you mean beyond the mod I already posted?
mossy zinc
Nighty Night was when we really started pushing 40+, and then Blood Price was when they gave us pretty much everything we asked for for high heat.
solar maple
you could look at that to get a feel for how it works, then add your own
I still want to make the mod to make blown kiss work with all casts
never got around to that
halcyon flame
some cool stuff like "BP3 - Minibosses are now given random benefits as well"
maybe an em5 for charon but that's a stretch
solar maple
harder charon would be tough to do
animations/attack patterns are hard
you could just slap more damage + hp pretty easily though
gaunt fiber
which are already boring
mossy zinc
Give him a speed modifier lol.
halcyon flame
new attacks and animations/patterns would be cool but getting those to work is some level of pain i know absolutely nothing about and the sprites for animations is a whole new form of problem
mossy zinc
Anyway, this is high heat strategies, not pact modding.
halcyon flame
i'm sorry please don't feed me to the crocodiles
halcyon flame
gaunt fiber
outsmarted
mossy zinc
These are sacred crocodiles.
honest kernel
I've eaten crocodile meat before
celest grail
did you win? @hoary pasture
celest grail
oof
hoary pasture
The build just carried it with massive damage
Went better than what I had in mind
ashen garnet
Wow, congrats for "no-hit" Dad melting
hoary pasture
ty
celest grail
lvl 6 d strike + lvl 5 jolted + billow on zeus call
yeah i think the dmg shouldve been alright
hoary pasture
Just missing Smoldering
halcyon flame
gonna try to get used to fo2 now since i'll wanna loose up more heat later if i wanna try going for 24x32
unique zephyr
Got Curse of Nausea and Merciful End, then died to bull mini boss
Even with a stacked build I shouldn't have chosen the mini boss chamber if I could have avoided it, although if I had chosen tooth instead of acorn I could have lived
quartz mantle
Pretty sure you need to face a mini boss chamber in every region so at some point you would have had to face your fears lmao
bright mango
You only take them for time
solemn pulsar
Slightly easier than asphodel in Tartarus
bright mango
Since miniboss rooms are way shorter than normal rooms(except asterius so it’s more of a gamble in elysium)
hoary pasture
Just enter and pray for butterfly ball :D
bright mango
Also asterius can be easier than some elysium rooms
quartz mantle
Plus he gets more hurt in the boss fight if you fight him mid elysium
bright mango
It’s not worth it tbh
quartz mantle
I wonder if you can kill asterius in the miniboss fight
without cp does anyone know how much health he leaves at?
quartz mantle
lame
gaunt fiber
sadmudkip.png
solemn pulsar
Yeah I think if you overkill enough he actually does die
But then is just there in the boss fight anyway
unique zephyr
Imagine if there was unique dialogue for it though at the boss fight
solemn pulsar
OK I had that dumb bug where the Athena DD disappears midbiome, who diagnosed what causes that before? i forget who it was
would like to remember the sequence of events so i can avoid it in the future
true fable
getting the dd and then equipping skelly
true fable
dont see why youd want to
it used to add the skelly dd under the athena dd
ive always just taken corn with athena dds
solemn pulsar
Now I know
green shale
what is the best cast for poseidon sword aspect (32heat)?
shy plinth
There are a lot of options, the current hotness is athena cast
pseudo kernel
what is the best cast for poseidon sword aspect (32heat)?
artemis is good for damage, poseidon can keep enemies away from you, and i dont really know about athena
solemn pulsar
athena is good because athena in your pool opens up: sure footing, divine dash, extra DDs, etc
and it's a solid cast, big damage
and has some small AOE that artemis doens't have
and lightning phalanx is lots o fun
mossy zinc
without cp does anyone know how much health he leaves at?
20%, and then he enters the boss fight at 80% of his max HP.
And yeah, people have killed him with DOT in the miniboss fight when he's leaving. But he'll just be back for the boss fight, anyway.
hoary pasture
lol
mossy zinc
@daring hedge didn't you have a video of that?
true fable
tail doesnt play hades anymore hes a monster hunter player now
gaunt fiber
Rise looks sick
eternal hare
yeah it's good stuff
bronze viper
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/771815559410876446/828660010779279370/u...
😦 Happened to me twice, and Schad as well. It doesn't happen every time, but yeah.
Also didn't realize Rise already came out... there's a big chungus bow in that game too...
eternal hare
It's been out for over a week!
true fable
Also didn't realize Rise already came out... there's a big chungus bow in that g...
oh no.... he's gone
bronze viper
Lol, it's more productive than 32 streaking. I needed a break from heat pushing anyway. I'll probably get the 45 Arthur and switch over to MH
50 is too spicy for my blood. Stynkius
gaunt fiber
Wow
The imperdable clan is already hit by repentance
We're losing more and more people
Also @true fable Congrats on the 50 nem
bronze viper
Geez, mega congrats
bronze viper
How many aspects at 50 are you at?
unique zephyr
I am looking to join the imperdable clan
unique zephyr
But I still struggle with 40
true fable
4 weapons
bronze viper
Nooo, I'm at 6. Need to finish Zag bow or Eris lmao
true fable
i did get carried by athena no shame
gaunt fiber
lmao
unique zephyr
I have one clear at 40 with Hestia and that’s it
gaunt fiber
it's tough, huge congrats anyway
true fable
i think i needed the carry
daring hedge
Also didn't realize Rise already came out... there's a big chungus bow in that g...
welcome to my current "break" from hades
true fable
i've thrown that fight before
unique zephyr
Oh yeah congrats on the 50
gaunt fiber
I am looking to join the imperdable clan
Anyone can join
true fable
i feel like i could try zag spear now
frosty bloom
died 3 times in a row attempting 32 heat using aspect of chiron bow
anyone got any tips?
true fable
welcome to my current "break" from hades
you can come back anytime
i have seen the light
daring hedge
oh dang congrats on nem 50 bright btw
daring hedge
WHAT
bronze viper
anyone got any tips?
How are you building it?
true fable
i made it to heroes on 50 hades spear
frosty bloom
How are you building it?
i went for demeter special with aphro attack
that didnt work the first two times, so i went for artemis and last time
bronze viper
Try Deadly Flourish + Aphro attack
frosty bloom
i reached hades in all attempts but kept dying
daring hedge
someday you will see
gaunt fiber
i reached hades in all attempts but kept dying
that means you'll get it very soon
bronze viper
What's your pact?
frosty bloom
that means you'll get it very soon
what are some good summons to use
true fable
is what i think ledger is gettin at
daring hedge
battie and antos
frosty bloom
not bouldy? i use him for health clutch lol
also what about keepsakes? i been using skelly
gaunt fiber
Usually we run LC4 so no healing
daring hedge
LC kills bouldy
bronze viper
Once you get to 32, it's fairly advisable to start doing LC4 SD
true fable
no rush tail but out of curiosity
when do you plan to start streaming this game again
or streaming MHR
daring hedge
i wish i could stream MHR but i don't have like a capture card or setup where i could do that
frosty bloom
and check the pins if you want some good pieces of advice
i didnt know there were pins lol ty for that
daring hedge
but yeah i've been slowing down on rise lately because i have my pretty much optimal switch axe set now
so i'll prob be back to hades soon and try to stream as well
like this week
mossy zinc
You could point your phone at your monitor to stream.
gaunt fiber
SA gaming pog
true fable
sounds like a time
bronze viper
I only played World for like 50 or so hours. Never really got anywhere. Pretty hype to learn the system furreals this time though.
daring hedge
rise uses a ton of world's foundation in terms of weapon movesets/animations so you'll prob ease in pretty well
frosty bloom
whats heal with SD mean?
gaunt fiber
Stubborn defiance makes you revive at 30% hp
bronze viper
You can intentionally die if you're below 30% health to reset your HP to 30
mossy zinc
#video-games if you want to talk about Monster Hunter.
gaunt fiber
if you're below this threshold you'll heal
bronze viper
Provided you haven't lost your SD yet in that room
true fable
i made it through the world tutorial before getting sucked back into hades
frosty bloom
oh stubborn defiance. is sutbborn defiance better than the other one?
bronze viper
I mean I don't really intend to leave Hades lol, it's pretty easy to drop and pick up after a while so it's like whatever.
bronze viper
I'll just forget how to do EM4 because I'll have stopped grinding it and then cry.
Easy game.
frosty bloom
Yeah because you'll run LC4 which means no healing
so when you get to hades we only have 1 death tho lol. do you use skelly keepsake?
gaunt fiber
One death per chamber
gaunt fiber
Skelly's keepsake is indeed an option for Elysium and styx although acorn is super good value
daring hedge
yeah, switching to SD pretty much means you can't hoard DDs for champs or hades, so you have to be better at those fights
but in exchange you can do whatever you want in normal chambers
gaunt fiber
For Hades I'd say Acorn is better in general
frosty bloom
I believe that's how it's spelled.
what is that lol
mossy zinc
Beocarry.
daring hedge
(she means beowulf)
gaunt fiber
It's Beowulf, the shield aspect
It's really powerful and deals with EM4 kinda easily
Safety and firepower
frosty bloom
oh beowulf lmao yea i remember it being really strong. im not into slow weapons tho
bronze viper
Chiron...
mossy zinc
I was talking to the Llama.
gaunt fiber
It's a bit of practice but the aspect goes fast
bronze viper
Lol I meant EM4 on aspects that don't get beocarried. Ie the rest of them
mossy zinc
Nyaanyaa's 32 Heat Guide
HL5 LC4 CF2 EM3 BP2 MM UC TD3
Stubborn Defiance
Eternal Rose > Owl Pendant > Lucky Tooth/Acorn > Acorn
That should be easy enough for Chiron.
dire steppe
yiu forgot to mention dark foresite
mossy zinc
Just pew-pew everything from a safe distance.
frosty bloom
ty everyone!!
mossy zinc
Heartbreak Strike lets you pick up either Drunken Flourish or Deadly Flourish, whichever you see first.
And Heartbreak Strike + Heartbreak Flourish is also very good if neither shows up.
frosty bloom
why owl pendant?? for divine dash?
hoary pasture
too much aphro
mossy zinc
Owl Pendant in Asphodel lets you pick up Divine Dash and DDs from her.
mossy zinc
too much aphro
Heresy. 
dire steppe
why not just use a weapon that isn't chiron
mossy zinc
Chiron is very good at 32. I don't see the problem.
frosty bloom
Owl Pendant in Asphodel lets you pick up Divine Dash and DDs from her.
i thought replenishing DD is irrelevant if you have stuboorn deifance
bronze viper
You gain real dds
true fable
^
daring hedge
chiron is speedy if you uhhh get tidal dash
frosty bloom
You gain real dds
WTF
gaunt fiber
i thought replenishing DD is irrelevant if you have stuboorn deifance
explained in the pins :)
bronze viper
Provided you do not have an SD in the chamber with Athena
frosty bloom
20 heats in and i never knew this lol
bronze viper
So it doesn't work in non Asphodel shops
dire steppe
unless you have hazard bomb :)
gaunt fiber
^
bronze viper
Hazard bomb on Chiron would be dope
gaunt fiber
And yes I used that tech at least once so it's relevant
mossy zinc
You gotta use up your SD in the chamber before picking up her boon. Then typically, you reroll for either Last Stand or Deathless Stand.
gaunt fiber
it just took 40s off my timer but well worth it
mossy zinc
But you'll need a core boon from her first.
dire steppe
although it would be cool if chiron's main attack was replaced with hazard bomb
bronze viper
You get that 40s back using the DD for time wait....
bronze viper
I think it should be swapped for call, yeah
mossy zinc
You're insane.
unique zephyr
Call is good on its own at least
gaunt fiber
Well it's a well known crutch for 40 and under
bronze viper
It really wouldn't. Athena falls out of meta with AP2 anyway
gaunt fiber
but above that athena is meh
bronze viper
So the higher heat you go you care more about timer and damage output.
frosty bloom
Heartbreak Strike lets you pick up either Drunken Flourish or Deadly Flourish, w...
getting heartbreak strike leads to dio or artemis? i thought it was random
hoary pasture
It is random
bronze viper
It is random. I do not personally like that start but it's fine.
mossy zinc
The point is you have a very good chance to get a natural Heart Rend or Low Tolerance build from there.
Whichever you see first.
bronze viper
If you want Hangover you want it in room 1 to benefit from Nectar chambers and deadly Flourish by itself is more than enough for 32 heat without Heart Rend so I don't know why you'd start Aphro
mossy zinc
Heartbreak Strike gives you a much faster Tartarus.
And the odds of seeing either Lady Artemis or Lord Dionysus naturally are higher than starting with either of those and seeing Lady Aphrodite naturally.
mossy zinc
attack dmg matters more early
The build that got me sub 10 finally was just Heroic Heartbreak Strike + Twin Shot and ignoring my Special lol.
gaunt fiber
You're a schackle gamer Ledger, ô King of Chiron
true fable
you go fast by playing attack or playing cast
mossy zinc
Although if you really want DPS, you start Tidal Dash.
mossy zinc
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/826957258160209920/828702209163132988/ima...
No Skull Earring.
If you're gonna time out, this will be why.
gaunt fiber
He does not need earring
mossy zinc
I mean he obviously didn't need Lucky Tooth.
mossy zinc
No. Stay at 1 HP, switch to Skull Earring.
gaunt fiber
That's what a gamer would do
gaunt fiber
Ez
ember bronze
I think Chiron with Dio is very good, generally
ember bronze
I'm not sure about super high heat where you start having to deal with Jury Summons
But I think it surprised myself with a TD3 clear with it recently, which is hard for me with Chiron
bright mango
No I didn’t time out
bronze viper
Hangover chiron is good because of JS
gaunt fiber
I feel like hangover Chiron weakness is bossing actually
ember bronze
Someone alluded to poms above, Drunken Flourish floors at +1 every pom which is good scaling
bronze viper
Yeah def bossing. And CP2 is a nightmare
gaunt fiber
CP2 huuuh
ember bronze
Eh, I go for Low Tolerance and lots of Poms, usually feels like good ST DPS
(I basically never play CP though)
gaunt fiber
Yeah until CP gaming it's ok
ember bronze
And also that yes
It's better at JS than other Chiron builds
Chiron just struggles there generally I think
gaunt fiber
Yeah
bronze viper
Well, maybe. Tidal Dash Rip Current Chiron goes brrrrrr
ember bronze
How popular are Tidal Dash builds at 40+?
bronze viper
That works trivially until 45
ember bronze
Since focusing on 32+ I've started going all Athena, but honestly don't really need it outside of EM4 probably
bronze viper
For EM4 you just need all of the damage. Athena is nice for DDs but that's about it. I'd still prefer Tidal Dash to manage skulls and for chip damage, or damage adds.
ember bronze
I try to keep making myself do EM4 lately for practice, but it's definitely not my easiest way to get that Heat even in 30-40
bronze viper
Divine Dash just isn't that great against EM4 lol
ember bronze
I should try more without it
I leaned on it when learning 32s and trying to make them easy
(for 24x32 I settled into a pattern of FO0 EM3 because it was just hard to lose)
bronze viper
E.g. If you deflect skulls they will yeet behind dad, which means you have to go past him to deal with them. If you deflect spear he goes to the other side of the arena, and you lose some dps time
gaunt fiber
It's fun to see though
solemn pulsar
@daring hedge are you proud of me
(seeded exploding launcher bc i dont have time to be good at the game)
gaunt fiber
yeets away
solemn pulsar
guan yu but make it fast
bronze viper
Have you always been able to get Charged after exploding?
bronze viper
There's no pierce, it's garbage yu
bronze viper
Or health lmao
solemn pulsar
didn't have divine dash until chamber 34 though
daring hedge
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/771815559410876446/828706628169629696/u...
yes and holy moly
solemn pulsar
basically only had deadly flourish through most of asphodel
daring hedge
all that needed was heart rend and it would have been literally perfect
solemn pulsar
no other boons lol
gaunt fiber
There's no pierce, it's garbage yu
I like the name
solemn pulsar
all that needed was heart rend and it would have been literally perfect
obv it's a high roll build, but damn was it fast
solar maple
tbf deadly flourish + hunter's mark is full build
gaunt fiber
Pseudo speaks the truth
solemn pulsar
this build was very back heavy
up through asterius midboss was butt clenching
then after charged came in i could relax
daring hedge
oh yeah i guess i mean heart rend to take it over the top to a ridiculous degree since heartbreak strike is there
bronze viper
I'd like the base spears so much more if attacking instantly recalled the spear after special. This wouldn't even be remotely close to broken.
daring hedge
heroic deadly flourish will absolutely just do it
solar maple
I just wish spear recall worked like reload
solemn pulsar
that moment when you have so few boons you know what ambrosia will buff, but you only have 1 boon so it only buffs one
solar maple
where you can walk during it or dash cancel
bronze viper
Also if it had more than a pixel wide hitbox
bright mango
Nice job Cgull!
gaunt fiber
I'd like the base spears so much more if attacking instantly recalled the spear ...
Special on shoulder
solar maple
maybe I should try seeding for exploding launcher 👀
bronze viper
Yeah that's what I'm referring to
gaunt fiber
I don't have any delay
solemn pulsar
maybe I should try seeding for exploding launcher 👀
honestly i'm all about seeding for high heat clears that want a specific hammer
like i'll go for 50 spread fire zag rail
gaunt fiber
I throw a special and that's done
bright mango
Boom 100hp for ely
That’s what I did
bright mango
Died to a savior room
solar maple
yeah I'm not against seeding
true fable
i have time to burn
gaunt fiber
That’s what I did
Niiiice
solemn pulsar
i just want to play hades the video game
bright mango
No i died
solar maple
but my mom pom ap2 epic casts starts are just cheating LMAO
gaunt fiber
Died to a savior room
Oh rip
mossy zinc
I don't have any delay
Yeah, me either. I dunno what these people are talking about. 
solemn pulsar
i think i'll only seed for specific hammer
boon i can reset for easily
and only when hammer makes the build, like exploding or spread fire
it's like a different aspect at that point anyway
bronze viper
Epic boon seed with pom/gold start op af
solar maple
idk what I would even seed for with arthur
solemn pulsar
i did epic heartbreak + coin purse start LOL
solar maple
lmao
true fable
i like that
solemn pulsar
it's a little ehh though, i think i'll stick to seeding for hammers personally
true fable
breaching/shadow/dedge dont seem like bad picks
solemn pulsar
all good
dedge helps a lot with small enemies in tart
puts more in 1 hit range
"1 hit"
bronze viper
Dedge really nice utility for Arthur. I'd probably start there.
solar maple
also I have a dumb obsession with trying to make cast builds work at super high heat
solar maple
or both 👀
mossy zinc
Remember to submit your runs to the high heat leaderboard.
I've seen a number of high heat clears recently that aren't on the board.
Terrible.
bronze viper
Lmao
gaunt fiber
Have not submitted any of Eris Hestia or Beo yet
true fable
think my highest submitted still might be 32 beo
gaunt fiber
Hestia and Beo Hades are pretty pog
mossy zinc
It's only "low" on the board because 2-3 people seem to think they have to do every aspect at 50, then 51, then 52, then 53 . . .
solemn pulsar
Remember to submit your runs to the high heat leaderboard. <:dusa:52224877140954...
waiting for vids to upload
gaunt fiber
40
true fable
32?
gaunt fiber
32
true fable
32
mossy zinc
There's no Nemesis mirrorless on the board, yet.
solemn pulsar
@mossy zinc what's policy on repeated runs? like faster speedruns of stuff on heats i've already cleared. I wasn't putting them on the sheet because they feel redundant, but
whatever works
mossy zinc
But you can go for 41 and be 3rd place for unseeded mirrorless.
bronze viper
Tailesque has submitted approximately a billion 50 Rama runs lol
solar maple
I was having fun with 1 dash sword in fresh file
but I would have to do actual work to get better at that
solar maple
by learning fast heroes/hades fights
mossy zinc
<@!311477984886521856> what's policy on repeated runs? like faster speedruns of ...
We don't filter out repeat runs like that nor replace them. We could do that if we had an IGT and maybe RTA column, but it's not a speedrun leaderboard and not intended to be, so I somewhat deliberately left that out.
The leaderboard ranks first by Heat and second by date of submission.
shy plinth
More submissions will fill out your per-player index
mossy zinc
Personally if I do like a series of 32 clears for example to get sub 10, I only submit my best run.
bright mango
How do I find myself on the index?
mossy zinc
m just happy if people submit their runs at all.
bright mango
I don’t see myself on the seeded index either (this is where I expect to be since I don’t record)
mossy zinc
Yeah, seeded also needs a video.
mossy zinc
Somebody should verify my Eris run already, so I can be the first on the speedrun leaderboard with all weapons sub 10 at 32 Heat.
m already the first with all weapons sub 10 at 32 and first on the high heat leaderboard with that, but I need my dopamine.
bright mango
I love how tailesque’s comment on his 60 is just anvil
solar maple
it was probably the greatest anvil of all time
shy plinth
I'd avoid the super cheapo ones
And elgato is pretty marked up even though they make good stuff
This seems like a nice middle ground
bright mango
I’m not really trying to stream or anything but just record the occasional runs
bright mango
And elgato is pretty marked up even though they make good stuff
lol yeah I saw the price on that thing and went
shy plinth
They do make good stuff
But they also have a very good marketing team
It's not worth double the price
mossy zinc
Wouldn't you still need a PC to record for that one? Wouldn't it be cheaper to just get Hades on Steam, in that case?
unique zephyr
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/771815559410876446/828706628169629696/u...
Nice job! Any hades spear tips? I’m grinding 40 heat on it right now
solemn pulsar
get exploding launcher hehe
make sure buff is applied
er, debuff
especially with artemis boons that's so much damage
gritty flame
I think I got exploding launcher with hangover on my special one time and I didn't take a single hit from dad
somber rune
Question - is there a certain heat threshold that qualifies a run as "high heat"? If so, what is it?
honest kernel
32
quartz mantle
The high heat leaderboard starts at 32, but this channel can be used to discuss pact options and heat in general
gaunt fiber
31 is super cold
somber rune
Cool thanks!
gaunt fiber
32 is hot
quartz mantle
Sorry all you 31 heat players you're not real high heat gamers
shy plinth
No gatekeeping >:3
bright mango
Whatever heat feels hard for you is “high heat” 
solemn pulsar
31F is freezing
quartz mantle
31F is freezing
based
shy plinth
31C is extremely hot though
halcyon flame
forced overtime 2 is not that awful actually
because i just crushed my pb by over a minute with it
quartz mantle
very gaming
solar maple
6 casts 👀
halcyon flame
if i didn't take slippery grasp in asphodel it could easily have been sub 11
solar maple
yeah 2 sack is a coin flip basically
mossy zinc
No gatekeeping >:3
says hat person who set the leaderboard to filter out anything below 32.
halcyon flame
i should have known better than to not be able to pick up casts for basically the entirety of asphodel
solar maple
yeah don't pick that curse
it's not worth it
unless you are in like c1, and get lucky rooms
mossy zinc
@halcyon flame grats on PB! But don't take TD if you're trying to speedrun IGT.
mossy zinc
You'll be more than fine at 32 with FO2.
bright mango
says hat person who set the leaderboard to filter out anything below 32.
Burn
halcyon flame
thinking of getting rid of lc4 for fo2 so i can use dds
being able to revive more than once for heroes and hades would sure be nice
or i could just use tooth/acorn
mossy zinc
You didn't need any DDs there.
Yes, just take Lucky Tooth for Elysium and Acorn for Hades.
shy plinth
says hat person who set the leaderboard to filter out anything below 32.
I was just following orders ;_;
unique zephyr
Since I started doing 32 I found LC4 way less scary than I thought it would be
when I saw people at high heat doing it I thought to myself "no healing!? What?" and thought LC4 would be like the hardest one just because "no healing" (this was back when I was just watching high heat videos casually sometimes as an observer)
halcyon flame
if i'm gonna be doing fo2 for 32 heat i should probably consider putting on bp2 and em3
mossy zinc
Just do this pact. You'll be fine. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/828434114159575050/Hades_2020.png?width=812&height=457
gaunt fiber
You can have an EM2 pact
halcyon flame
em2 at 32 heat?
gaunt fiber
Yeah it's a speedrun pact
gaunt fiber
HS is heat that does not slow you down
mossy zinc
No MM means quick and easy Styx.
gaunt fiber
But you can go EM3 and lower HL/no HS
mossy zinc
HL5 EM3 FO2 scares me more than HS does.
gaunt fiber
Yeah HS just has the potential to kill a run
halcyon flame
i'm just gonna do em3
gaunt fiber
but it's rare
mossy zinc
If you want to avoid HS, I guess do HL4 MM instead?
halcyon flame
at any rate i might as well start doing em4 to get a feel for it
mossy zinc
MM is better than running into solo EM3 Asterius.
mossy zinc
I was just following orders ;_;
m from Germany. That defense doesn't fly here.
shy plinth
Oof
gaunt fiber
lmao I thought the exact same thing
ember bronze
I'm of the school that, while FO2 is good practice for lots of high-heat endeavors, it's needlessly hard for 32
I think anyone who does play FO2 (which included me, for my first 32), should go try FO0 and notice how hard it is to lose
I'm also on the train of no HS. You can argue that HS can be free if you don't mess up, but just, losing runs to one Styx axe is not a frustration that is at all necessary to deal with at 32
true fable
true enough
part of doing ultra high heat is building the mental fortitude to move on after you lose a god run to dad pots
its tough
ember bronze
Yeah, FO2 and HS build character 😛
wintry berry
I didn't even turn on HS until my first 50 heat clear
solemn pulsar
I didn’t turn it on until I started speedrunning high heat
And once I had it on I just kept it on for all high heat stuff
mossy zinc
losing runs to one Styx axe
That's just a quick heal with SD, though.
ember bronze
I think LC4 is surprisingly tame once you learn to play it, that's my most common "just try it it will be fine" comment for people trying to go from ~20 to ~30
mossy zinc
Anyway, I was recommending that pact for spammy specifically, not in general.
ember bronze
yeah I'm just rambling since I'm here now
FO0 just gives you so much room to turn on all kinds of things (HL5, BP2, EM3) and still have the overall game just ... not be that hard
shy plinth
SD+LC4 is a learning curve on bosses but I generally agree it's actually easier
But our experiences were very different with FO vs HL 🙂
ember bronze
Yeah, you have to bite the bullet to learn, but it doesn't take that long and overall is really comfortable
mossy zinc
If you can speedrun with FO2, you can do 32 with FO2.
ember bronze
You can, but you'll have a higher winrate without 😛
shy plinth
I def had a higher WR with FO2 CF0 HL1 than I did with HL5 CF2 FO0
But part of it might have just been the order I tried it
true fable
i would say if you can speedrun with FO2 and HC you can do 32 with it
ember bronze
CF might be doing more work there than I usually think about
shy plinth
CF suuuuucks
ember bronze
playing without CF feels like a lot of free boons
shy plinth
That's kind of been one of the big revelations since you were last playing I think
That CF is the devil
true fable
CF sucks
shy plinth
All the beo players were beating that drum first
true fable
DC also sucks imo
shy plinth
And then the rest of us were like "hey wait buying boons is cool"
solemn pulsar
CF stinky, and DC worse than it seems
ember bronze
I usually avoided DC
true fable
ive had more success with JS3 CP1 TD3 pacts than JS1 CP1 DC2 pacts unless im running a zeus weapon
shy plinth
Ewwwww
I guess at a certain heat you need to take those things
But I don't want them
gaunt fiber
JS3 CP2 DC2 TD2 is the ultimate trap
ember bronze
I think TD3 is intimidating, and does sometimes kibosh a run, but the more you try it, the more it just...becomes okay
might be too much for "first" 32
gaunt fiber
"Oh, it's TD2 I can have a nap"
mossy zinc
I've been fighting waves of "DC is free" posts for as long as I've been doing high heat.
ember bronze
Yeah, it really looks like it
true fable
my bad im talking about hell mode pacts for the most part
gaunt fiber
my bad im talking about hell mode pacts for the most part
Cheat
ember bronze
But it's bad for the same reason CP is bad--making thing take longer to kill has a lot of cascading effets
solar maple
whenever I see someone say "oh I'm not fast enough for td3"
but they have like 23 min clears with JS3 DC2 CP2 arthur
ember bronze
still, if I'm imagining a "new" 32er
we can't quite get there avoiding everything mentioned so far
so they have to pick their poison a bit between learning TD3 or FO2 or HL5
edgy arrow
but they have like 23 min clears with JS3 DC2 CP2 arthur
so much this lol
turns out bad for pacts make you go slow
true fable
PL is not free heat
gaunt fiber
whenever I see someone say "oh I'm not fast enough for td3"
I was the same. And then I was told "have you tried lowering JS to like, 0?"
mossy zinc
Learning to be fast enough for TD3 at 32 is easier than learning to deal with JS3 CP2 BP2 and whatever fun combos they want to take instead.
gaunt fiber
PL is not free heat
PL is free at 50 I'm sorry
ember bronze
Yeah, agree, making everything take longer is insidiously really bad
true fable
PL is freer than other things
ember bronze
It's hard to say, I learned 32 before new TD existed
true fable
its like HS
true fable
PL doesnt matter until it does
gaunt fiber
Can kill a run
true fable
then it REALLY matters
still thinking about the asterius overhead swing doing > 100 dmg
ember bronze
PL feels like a relatively cheap heat once you're in the 40s territory, but coming with forced JS/CP makes it so much worse
gaunt fiber
It's specific though
ember bronze
it's not, like if it were allowed, it wouldn't be your first heat or anything
gaunt fiber
If I hug splitters without PL I still get one shot
ember bronze
But it's freer than most things in the 30s
edgy arrow
i haven’t played hell mode that much, but i’m saved by damage iframes semi regularly
true fable
yeah but you play guan yu astaos
edgy arrow
not all of those runs would’ve been wins ofc, but there’s no way it’s free
true fable
PL just makes it so that other aspects can get the guan yu experience
edgy arrow
lol
gaunt fiber
25 is base no? Thick skin makes it 50
true fable
its a challenge weapon for people who arent experiencing enough adversity?
gaunt fiber
No idea man. It's beautiful, blood drops from the blade
edgy arrow
other aspects: use this aspect it has a cool thing
GY: would you like half hp for no reason
gaunt fiber
:)
honest kernel
gaunt fiber
The fun thing
eternal hare
infinite hp!
gaunt fiber
Is that you have healing
edgy arrow
you can use the healing so that instead of dying in one hit now you die in one hit
gaunt fiber
But healing is already the reward of really tedious move to put to practice
If you fail you get punished because you don't heal + you get hit
PLUS YOU ALREADY HAVE 50% HP
It's just non sense
solar maple
yeah half the time I try to spin on GY I just take 5x the amount I would have healed
gaunt fiber
Beo be like : oh no a spike trap is 26
mossy zinc
PL is free if you die in one hit anyway or if your Beocarry negates all incoming damage.
edgy arrow
i was talking to a friend about this and he was like “yeah i always take damage when i spin, i just hope i heal for more than i take” and i’m like... oh boy
try that strat on HL5
edgy arrow
i mean, it’s functional
mossy zinc
It's guaranteed to work if you have SD and you're below 30% HP.
You'll heal for more HP than you take damage.
edgy arrow
it’s just funny because you wouldn’t actually heal that much which invincible
gaunt fiber
i mean, it’s functional
Fun to watch too
mossy zinc
I see nothing wrong with the strategy.
edgy arrow
i mean, i’m sure it’s worth it
gaunt fiber
50 heat experiments
edgy arrow
whenever i try 50 heat experiments i actually end up doing die in tart experiments
edgy arrow
i’ll get a PS sea storm chiron 50 clear someday tho, and everyone will be sorry they questioned me
edgy arrow
styx ez unless you die then not ez
edgy arrow
oof
mossy zinc
Flaring Spin is underrated because everyone just wants damage at low Heat.
gaunt fiber
That was super funny
edgy arrow
lol that might be the only time that +10% has actually mattered
gaunt fiber
Because I was actually willing to take that damage
unique zephyr
I've seen Tails use Flaring Spin to deal with DC at 50
serrated point was crossed out
gaunt fiber
Well not willing but it was fine you know
unique zephyr
Beo: here have half a hard labor
gaunt fiber
Flaring Spin is underrated because everyone just wants damage at low Heat.
Also because it requires you to do nothing lmao
true fable
flaring is a good way to deal with unique dc problems
gaunt fiber
"oh you have armor?"
unique zephyr
and savior enemies too
gaunt fiber
urgs
true fable
well dont do it vs armored enemies silly
edgy arrow
yeah Tail unironically advocates flaring, but that’s just because he’s dealing with pact setups that most folks shouldn’t dream of running
true fable
better than chain skewer
gaunt fiber
stares at triple jab
mossy zinc
It's also very good for new players.
gaunt fiber
yeah it's amazing
edgy arrow
even new players don’t like it tho lol
true fable
sturdy is nice
gaunt fiber
it's basically imperdable mode against non armored foes
true fable
damage reduction baby
edgy arrow
doesn’t matter if it’s good for them if they don’t take it because they want damage or whatever
gaunt fiber
The hardest thing for me as a beginner
was actually going for other builds when I had one finally working
solar maple
guan yu spin heals almost as fast as stubborn roots
and we all know how broken that is
gaunt fiber
should be faster with the mini spin dance of death
Yeah I can name the move the way I want
edgy arrow
any healing strat called “dance of death” i am suspicious of
solar maple
it also fits because they both require you to kill yourself to try to heal
true fable
lol
true fable
the drawback of dying?
gaunt fiber
the drawback of standing still to spin
gaunt fiber
yeah
well that sounds terrible and prolly not worth it outside of Tartarus where GY is really strong
but
Well no but I actually argue against the move
Just know that you can mini spin real quick by cancelling with a dash and repeat
It's elegant
mossy zinc
On another note, I've been trying to watch some speedrun stream sometimes lately when eating or something.
edgy arrow
It's elegant
it is when you do it
gaunt fiber
Thank you
mossy zinc
And it's like, 2 hours of Tartarus for every 20-minute RTA run.
gaunt fiber
Then it'll be natural
gaunt fiber
Like when I have Guan Yu in my hands
mossy zinc
How do people watch this and have fun lol.
gaunt fiber
It jsut works alone
gaunt fiber
How do people watch this and have fun lol.
It's terrible to watch
solar maple
tartarus is a mindset
gaunt fiber
If I'm watching a speedrun stream it's rather to chat with people
mossy zinc
IGT: 6m 47s
RTA: 2h 56m
gaunt fiber
Because it's reset city
But Nyaanyaa
There's a really cool stream around 2pm your time basically every day
mossy zinc
No, Lady Aphrodite starts her streams at 4 a.m. my time.
solar maple
I mean there is a reason haelian doesn't do many speedruns anymore
it doesn't hold his big audience as well
mossy zinc
Haelian also doesn't reset a billion times when he does, so that's more entertaining.
ember bronze
I had fun dabbling in speed for like a week
solar maple
yeah he tends to play it out a bit more
ember bronze
got to sub-9 and then the reset-heavy nature made me think it just won't be what I'm really into
mossy zinc
Seeded starts worked better for speedrun streams.
ember bronze
(Now, trying 40+ for me isn't that different)
gaunt fiber
(Now, trying 40+ for me isn't that different)
Yeah but your skill matters more
solar maple
yeah I think I could definitely push my time lower, it just doesn't seem that fun
ember bronze
Dabbling in speed is really fun until you're at the point where all you can do is get good eris rolls
solar maple
I haven't really done any heat in a few months
gaunt fiber
That's why I won't touch any heat ever again
ember bronze
I mean, speedrun roguelikes is just hard
solar maple
well other than aotw memes
ember bronze
Unseeded is reset life
mossy zinc
You can streak 40+ reliably with any aspect. RNG will make things harder but not impossible.
edgy arrow
pretty much yeah
ember bronze
Seeded is kind of--really divorced from normal gameplay
gaunt fiber
Yeah it kinda cuts off the roguelite part
solar maple
I had quite a bit of fun learning fresh file
ember bronze
Spelunky does unseeded, but they have a whole elaborate setup where you can branch your run into different categories based on what you find in the 1-2 shop
edgy arrow
oh yeah i should do more fresh file
solar maple
once you have ME, (and even without it), whenever you get hit/ die it is painfully obvious how you messed up
gaunt fiber
and you can get sandwiches as a room reward
edgy arrow
it’s a painfully transparent way of playing
ember bronze
I think the game lends itself to lots of interesting challenges that are a bit better designed than pure speed
solar maple
needing to get ME is annoying but other than that it is great fun
and you get it much more often than you would think
ember bronze
So pure speed is mostly only attractive if that's specifically your thing
mossy zinc
Any heat might as well allow a mod that guarantees a boon or hammer but randomizes the rest of the seed, at this point.
ember bronze
Otherwise doing, for example, Heat is more interesting/more balanced
true fable
its part of why i dont really grind anyheat on stream anymore
edgy arrow
maybe that’s why
gaunt fiber
in any heat?
solar maple
champs without ME is hard
true fable
not really fun for many
gaunt fiber
oh fresh file mb lol
true fable
high heat is easier to stomach
solar maple
I mean the "tartarus stream" memes were funny
edgy arrow
yeah fresh file
true fable
lol
solar maple
just a little too true
true fable
eternal tartarus stream
gaunt fiber
Green stream no green boons
true fable
from tartarus we came and to tartarus we return
ember bronze
(and continuing my tangent, while I love spelunky, the thing I hate most is playing 1-1 and 1-2 over and over again, which is the same as the Tartarus feeling)
gaunt fiber
or
mossy zinc
They don't even reset for just the boon they want anymore, they reset for Epic Attack + top tier hammer + Epic Dash in Tartarus and stuff lol.
gaunt fiber
Green stream until green boons
true fable
i like tartarus a lot more than most speedrunners which helps
edgy arrow
tart is a cool zone
edgy arrow
you can do whatever you want and everything somehow dies
true fable
yes but its about how the things die the fastest
edgy arrow
yeah if you’re good
mossy zinc
I saw Ananke enter Asphodel one time today, and he reset when he got Barge.
true fable
give me footage a fist players tartarus and i can tell you how good their PB is
edgy arrow
when i speedrun, i just button mash and then check after if i had a good time
gaunt fiber
does it work?
gaunt fiber
should be tbh
mossy zinc
give me footage a fist players tartarus and i can tell you how good their PB is
No offense to Malphon speedrunners, but most of them don't play Malphon, they play ME.
gaunt fiber
I know a lot of people mashing and getting good times
true fable
ananke also is in unique territory
where a barge keeps him from his goals
most people are not there
ember bronze
ME fists and Eris both have the property than you can Dash Strike nonstop as fast as possible and it's self-working until you're really far along the optimization ladder
ember bronze
(All that said, I don't consume twitch much, so this is really all about what it's like trying to play it)
mossy zinc
Yeah, some of them are definitely good Malphon players. But I'd say that's the minority.
true fable
for sure
i would say 90% of malphon submissions are attack mashing with an occasion giga cutter
which is quite sad
gaunt fiber
things die even you're garbage yeah
solemn pulsar
Top 10% of malphon submissions is basically sub 8
So bright is pretty dead on
Interestingly with ME on sword you still have to be good at sword
distant cradle
How do ppl get sub 20 with some weapons
I'm trying to get a sub 20 with rama and beowulf
On 6 heat
gaunt fiber
Aspect and game knowledge
Like there's a way to move, an optimal way to kill and stuff
distant cradle
Oh
distant cradle
I got one sub 20 but I skipped a lot of stuff
mossy zinc
And look at like the top 10 runs for the aspect on the speedrun leaderboard for their builds and stuff.
solemn pulsar
Have you watched videos/streams of people going fast?
You can learn a lot just from watching
“Oh I should do that”
edgy arrow
okay that’s not too bad
distant cradle
I did it on zag bow fine
edgy arrow
just checking it wasn’t hell mode or something
distant cradle
But beo and rama idk
edgy arrow
bare in mind TD will increase your igt
gaunt fiber
For me the most important thing is to always move toward the exit. Like you enter a room, kill the stuff already spawned and move on
distant cradle
Ok
edgy arrow
and i’d never take CF on beo below 40 personally
distant cradle
Ok
gaunt fiber
Also : pause when you make a decision to stop timer (ie choosing door)
distant cradle
Ye I just used it cause I was scare to get anything else
Ahh
Oki
Ye usually I'm at 16 mins after theseus
Then satyr and hades take me to 20-21
gaunt fiber
well it's unlucky
mossy zinc
I think at the point where you're struggling with sub 20, you don't need to worry too much about spawn manipulation, anyway. You just need to be way more aggressive and optimize your Attack rotations as well as your builds.
edgy arrow
honestly beo and rama are both weapons i’d recommend looking at runs to get faster
gaunt fiber
yeah sub 20 is just killing stuff quickly enough
distant cradle
Like I could get shots off more
edgy arrow
they’re both kinda weird and it playing them can be explained but to get a good feel for it you should see it in action
gaunt fiber
and not watching the pretty walls and stuff
distant cradle
Lol
gaunt fiber
or the details on the tortured souls of asphodel
trying to get out of the magma
poor guys
edgy arrow
to be fair, the walls are very pretty
halcyon flame
thankfully whenever you enter a new biome, the timer is frozen in the first chamber
distant cradle
Cause em3 gives 6 heat
gaunt fiber
They are
mossy zinc
Also, just ignore gold urns unless it's between waves or they happen to be directly on your way to the exit.
edgy arrow
for speedruns, anything other than EM2 and and FO will slow you down
distant cradle
Ok
mossy zinc
And ignore Styx shop unless you can get Rush Delivery or something genuinely broken like Splitting Bolt there.
mossy zinc
Nope.
distant cradle
Yay
Is malphon fun for speedrun?
Ppl tell me it's good
But I get hit too much
edgy arrow
malphon fast ye
mossy zinc
It's my favorite weapon, so obviously, the answer is yes.
edgy arrow
demeter is fastest
distant cradle
Oki
gaunt fiber
Demeter has the best speed potential
edgy arrow
but talos and zag fists have the best meme potential so ymmv
mossy zinc
"Should"?
gaunt fiber
Play whatever is fun
distant cradle
Ok
mossy zinc
Do whatever you like. Either way is fine.
edgy arrow
i mean, whichever you want?
gaunt fiber
some people will grind a single aspect
edgy arrow
folks do either or both
mossy zinc
Lots of generalists and lots of specialists on the high heat leaderboard.
gaunt fiber
others will play a bit of everything
ember bronze
You can basically pick what you want
mossy zinc
Specialists tend to eventually become generalists, too.
ember bronze
I think a good default while learning is to play what's purple
distant cradle
Hmm ok
ember bronze
I did that every run for most of my time playing, unless I have a really specific goal
mossy zinc
Ew, but purple keeps selecting Rail, and who'd want that.
ember bronze
- It just forces some variety on you, which keeps things interesting longer
distant cradle
My purple hasn't been bow in a while
gaunt fiber
Blood thirst gamers pog
ember bronze
- 20% Darkness income does add up
gaunt fiber
wait it's dark thirst right
edgy arrow
i used to follow darker thirst when i was starting out, then it did spear 3 times in a row once and i gave up
i didn’t even hate spear that much, i just got bored
ember bronze
I thought it never picks what you just played?
edgy arrow
it definitely can
distant cradle
How spear
ember bronze
Either way, you can break anytime you want, but I find it a nice habit when I don't have a strong reason to play something already in my head
edgy arrow
but yeah it can get grindy to play one weapon over and over, so it’s good to mix it up
just do what’s fun really
mossy zinc
I played pretty much nothing but Malphon for a long time until I got the Heat WR with that, and @gaunt fiber played nothing but Guan Yu for a long time and also has no Heat WR to show for it. So I guess that route can be successful or not.
edgy arrow
that’s what’ll give you the most success in the long run anyway
distant cradle
Ok
gaunt fiber
I consider my route successful
edgy arrow
lol i did the same with beo
gaunt fiber
The famous common deadly strike route
edgy arrow
as soon as i started to get good with it beo became mainstream and now real gamers are using it
gaunt fiber
with charged skewer in 13
gaunt fiber
I mean