h1-high-heat-strategies

[ember bronze]

And it does come with (chiefly) CP1, which is bad

[solar maple]

hell mode is mostly "would you take CP1 for 2 heat"

[ember bronze]

So maybe not until like...45?

[mossy zinc]

When you reach heats that force you to take JS1 and CP1 anyway, PL is good.

[gaunt fiber]

I'd say 50

[mossy zinc]

So like 50+.

[ashen garnet]

Hell Mode is definitely a 50 thing

[solar maple]

for td2 players (🤮 ) hell mode could be worth it at lower heat

[gaunt fiber]

people are yelling at me because I don't do hell mode

[quartz mantle]

Yea or you could be me and make your hell mode file continuously mirrorless by never upgrading the mirror at all

[gaunt fiber]

Mirror is cheap if you're a RI2 gamer

[ember bronze]

"Each rank reduces the damage threshold at which you briefly turn impervious by +100% ."

Also this description makes no sense

[ashen garnet]

No invulnerability times basically (damage bubble)

[gaunt fiber]

I think you still get the death iframe?

[solar maple]

yeah when you take a bunch of damage at once you usually get a shield

PL removes that

so sometimes witches blow you up for 903857943875923 damage

but it usually does nothing

[gaunt fiber]

Or if Guan Yu, when you're hit by any enemy

[solar maple]

lol

you're thinking of SD invincibility

[ember bronze]

Yeah it's just worded wrong

[ashen garnet]

PL is free on GY, but not on Arthur because it's a maxHP threshold

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah

[bronze viper]

About to stream losing my 4 streak to GY

[gaunt fiber]

On GY you can also take a double instance of damage and you won't get the shield

Like Tisi's support attack + a random thing from the fury

[bright mango]

My streak has died

[gaunt fiber]

Gamers losing at 32? Pog

You're zooming too hard

[bright mango]

It was asterius

[gaunt fiber]

Overconfidence

[bright mango]

Yeah it totally was

The first two runs were a complete breeze

[ashen garnet]

You still worry about streaks ?

[quartz mantle]

Alright made it to the furies on 63 heat

[gaunt fiber]

They're on a challenge somehow

24*32

[quartz mantle]

5 seconds on the clock and 1 hp let's go gamers

[ashen garnet]

Is it some kind of crazy all aspects 32heat streak ?

[gaunt fiber]

yeah

[ashen garnet]

Mad lads

[gaunt fiber]

They told me to do it too

And rn I'm watching ledger's GY attempt with a very brave pact

(No HS, HL1 TD2)

[bright mango]

Ok yeah phalanx shot > electric shot

[ashen garnet]

Is it possible to learn this power ? I have like 50% of my 32 boonless attempts reaching Dad, but 0% surviving P1

Maybe EM3 is too much and removes too many DD. But I think the main culprit still is my terrible gameplay against dad (unga-bunga speedrunner full boons habits )

[gaunt fiber]

if boonless

Just go RI1, 2 free heat so your run is actually 30 heat

you're welcome

[bright mango]

I think DF is still extremely valuable

[gaunt fiber]

"1 HP is all you need."

[true fable]

its just 32 heat right?

[ashen garnet]

DF feels very nice to pile up HPs, but forces you to use FA rolls more often. I still don't get the logic of forced/not forced boon reward for minibosses or how to dodge them

[unique zephyr]

So what determines when the damage shield goes up?

Like how much damage in how much time

If I was thinking of taking RI1 I might as well take RI2 I feel like since RI1 is only two heat for some reason

Since the less HP and gold feels like it matters less than DF

Losing family favorite isn’t great though

Also EM4 with stubborn defiance is hard

Once I learn it though 40 will be easier right

[bright mango]

Em4 is never easy lol

But I guess 40 becomes more fun

Same with 45

[honest kernel]

em4 is brutal

one of, if not the hardest multiplier

I say one of cos AP and RI exist

[quartz mantle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459479648603078658/827687414964289576/unknown.png Literally busted run died to chamber 10 witches taking a minute and a half to kill because they take so long to spawn

[bronze viper]

@solar maple So as long your attack is at least point in the direction of their back, no matter where you are, the Arthur attack will backstab?

[solar maple]

yes

[bronze viper]

Neat

[solar maple]

that's how backstabs work with everything

[bronze viper]

Yeah

Good to know

[solar maple]

with nem I often dash into something and hit their face with my hilt

which is a backstab

lmao

[shy plinth]

It's a stab with the back of the sword

[solar maple]

true

[ashen garnet]

The threshold seems to be the maximum between 10 or maxHP/4 and keeps cumulative damage in memory for 0.6 (probably secs). But idk if HL or incoming damage modifiers like chaos matters

[mossy zinc]

Sub 9 pace and I get Tiny Vermin + 4-sack.

I just want rail to be over with, ugh.

[solemn pulsar]

32 heat?

[mossy zinc]

Yeah.

[solemn pulsar]

If you insist on starting eternal rose just reset for spread fire on zag rail 🙂

[mossy zinc]

I tried that earlier, and it was awfully slow somehow.

[solemn pulsar]

Hmm the rose start is probably the most limiting on rail

Maybe a passion dash start on Eris, picking up Zeus or ares attack

With decent rarity and dire misfortune doom attack on Eris is huge

Losing the splash dash knock back is a bit rough though

[mossy zinc]

Probably why it's my least favorite weapon, yeah. I dunno.

[dire steppe]

Seed an erebus gate for zeus attack

[solar maple]

if you are seeding you can just do aphro special rocket bomb

that can pretty much solo tartarus

[mossy zinc]

I'd have had sub 10 three times now if not for sack RNG.

[honest kernel]

sack rng 😭

that must be agonising for speedrunners

[mossy zinc]

Hestia has awful damage vs Hades.

[honest kernel]

rip, best of luck to you

[mossy zinc]

Ty ty.

Fed up for the moment.

[honest kernel]

completely understandable

[stiff flame]

Hello, I came to learn the secrets of the Rama bow

How do I get the power shot consistency down?

[honest kernel]

muscle memory

[mossy zinc]

Practice.

[honest kernel]

^

both

[shy plinth]

The second one and then the first

[honest kernel]

yeah

[shy plinth]

Also watch tailesque vods

[honest kernel]

practice the timing and remember it with muscle memory

[bright mango]

It’s also a lot about positioning

[mossy zinc]

https://youtu.be/SlCRfTmBSGs

[honest kernel]

idk what this is lemme watch

why play bow what you can play sword and button mash

that was a joke btw

before anyone takes me seriously

[stiff flame]

Me too

[mossy zinc]

You were also a joke?

[daring elk]

cuz sword is so op it honestly makes the game unfun

[honest kernel]

nothing is OP

the game is very well balanced

[honest kernel]

yes

[stiff flame]

[mossy zinc]

Stygius is not even the third best weapon for high heat.

[daring elk]

should have ended on a Kappa

[stiff flame]

Heck, I havent gone past 5 heat yet cause Im still farming low heat for my blood

[mossy zinc]

It's Nyaanyaa, not nyan.

[bright mango]

Hestia, beowulf, rama

The top 3 imo

[honest kernel]

sorry

[bright mango]

But at 20-30ish heat just do whatever you feel comfortable with

[honest kernel]

I was just shortening your name but I'm happy to call you nyaanyaa if that's what you prefer

[mossy zinc]

Hestia, Zeus, Rama.

[daring elk]

Don't forget to capitalize her name.

[mossy zinc]

Beowulf falls off at 52+ish.

[honest kernel]

ok

[bright mango]

I don’t think they’re asking about that high

[honest kernel]

what about the worst weapons/aspects for high heat

[bright mango]

Gilgamesh

[honest kernel]

I meant 32+

tryna remember what that one is

[bright mango]

The really bad one

[honest kernel]

I dont use fists so idk whats good or bad

[mossy zinc]

https://tenor.com/view/spiderman-tobeymaguire-imissedthepartwherethatsmyproblem-gif-9838697

[daring elk]

all hiddens feel so slow/clunky for some reason

[shy plinth]

People hatin on gilga

[honest kernel]

I'm sorry I didn't mean to start drama

[bright mango]

Yes we do

[shy plinth]

Nothing can stop the claw

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, whatcha gonna do about it, Mr. RidiculousHat?

[bright mango]

This isn’t drama this is nyaanyaa

[shy plinth]

I'm gonna keep playing that weapon

[devout quiver]

Why ask in high heat chat, if you're not talking in context of high heat tho

[shy plinth]

Because it's super fun

[honest kernel]

ok

[shy plinth]

I wish it was less terrible but

[bright mango]

32+ is considered high heat

[shy plinth]

I'll still rock a claw

[honest kernel]

I ummm was refering to high heat as 32+

[shy plinth]

I'd say probably Zeus shield scales the best to the very top

[bright mango]

^

[shy plinth]

But it's so skill intensive

[quartz mantle]

Zeus shield got that large skill ceiling

[shy plinth]

And the rail aspects and Rama also stay quite good

[bright mango]

The skill ceiling is quite high tho

[wintry berry]

My 40 heat zoos got carried by charged shot

[shy plinth]

Like you can Eris or Rama really far

Hestia has a damage control problem but still obv great

[bright mango]

Hestia falls off at 57+

[quartz mantle]

Hestia falls off at 62

when you have to put on DC

[wintry berry]

Not everybody can/want to do 50+

[shy plinth]

I went to check the leaderboards and realized that the retrash reality distortion field has grown to include the sheet

Zag Sword one of the best heat scaling weapons lolol

[bright mango]

[shy plinth]

It's at 55

[bright mango]

What

The

[shy plinth]

Retrash

[wintry berry]

maybe bc Retrash is so good with zag sword

[bright mango]

Yeah he is

[shy plinth]

Yes specifically

[bright mango]

lol

[mossy zinc]

Hestia falls off at 32 because it always gives you one more tunnel than you need for sub 10.

[bright mango]

[honest kernel]

[shy plinth]

Man everything on the sheet is over 50

That's kinda nuts

[honest kernel]

I don't think I'll ever make 50+

[mossy zinc]

Know what's not over 50 on the spreadsheet?

Your high heat record. Get to it.

[honest kernel]

[shy plinth]

I should submit my 40 victory screen at least

[quartz mantle]

I'm waiting till I get something that's actually noteworthy before submitting to the spreadsheet

[shy plinth]

I'm takin a little hades break before I push back after going from 5 32s to 24x32 in a month

[bright mango]

Yes you will

[quartz mantle]

don't want to be the millionth person putting up a 32 heat victory screen

[honest kernel]

maybe

[bright mango]

Trust me

[honest kernel]

if I get a rly good build

[shy plinth]

But yes next big goal is 6x40 into something else

[wintry berry]

50+ Hestia ezpz

[bright mango]

Well yes but no

[mossy zinc]

Hardly anyone puts up 32 Heat victory screens lol.

[shy plinth]

Yeah we barely get submissions

[honest kernel]

I will when I get it!

[shy plinth]

Those end up in victory boasting

But we take the submissions of course

[honest kernel]

submissions?

[mossy zinc]

People hardly submit 40 Heat anymore.

[shy plinth]

The leaderboards

[honest kernel]

ohh gotcha

[shy plinth]

Yeah things have really progressed

[bright mango]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fYeJpxFXZBO2UycHOz4qt90T3ZurFZKCtg07UQNZVyc/edit?usp=sharing

[quartz mantle]

I like how the preview is just a white screen

[wintry berry]

I don't submit to the leaderboard, but some of my runs are eligible

[shy plinth]

Why not submit something

[wintry berry]

I'm lazy

[honest kernel]

do you need to record it to be eligible?

[daring elk]

how many thousands of hours do i need to invest to 50+

[bright mango]

I had 130

[daring elk]

130k 😮

[bright mango]

No

[honest kernel]

no

[bright mango]

[honest kernel]

130 hrs

[wintry berry]

depends on what you are already experienced

[mossy zinc]

Not 130k.

[bright mango]

I’m not that much no life

[mossy zinc]

130M.

[honest kernel]

130 minutes

[quartz mantle]

I mean some people are new to the game but not the genre

[honest kernel]

[quartz mantle]

SO they can get 63 heat on their second run you know

[bright mango]

I’m also not that much of a gamer

[mossy zinc]

That's why you needed so much practice, yes.

[stiff flame]

130K hours is ~5,417 days

~15 years

[bright mango]

I don’t even think anyone has 3k + hrs in the game

[mossy zinc]

Pengy787 plays 787 accounts at the same time.

So that adds up.

[bright mango]

Hmm

Yes I suppose it does

[honest kernel]

pengy

astolfo ;)

[bright mango]

Wat

[quartz mantle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459479648603078658/827727583352193044/unknown.png

[honest kernel]

you're a trap connoisseur right?

[quartz mantle]

I mean that does add up

[wintry berry]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/770315207750320140/827727609096962068/iu.png

[mossy zinc]

No, that's division.

[bright mango]

I’m sorry if I don’t understand video game terminology all I played was zelda before this

[quartz mantle]

How many hours do you have pengy?

[bright mango]

130 hrs

[quartz mantle]

freak

almost

[devout quiver]

I'm around there too

Maybe 150

[honest kernel]

pengy, in your name, what type of trap

[quartz mantle]

I'm at 220 and struggling to beat 40 heat ahhahahhh

[bright mango]

It’s just that I put 40+ hours into high heat

[devout quiver]

They love spike pits

[bright mango]

I stopped fooling around

[devout quiver]

Always plays with HS on

[bright mango]

And started going hardcore

[daring elk]

ok i'll play max heat every run

[honest kernel]

do it

[bright mango]

I do not recommend

[wintry berry]

You going hardcore but pretend to be casual

[bright mango]

This makes more sense now

[daring elk]

once im able to beat tartarus

50 heat should feel like easy mode no?

[honest kernel]

yep

[bright mango]

Well yes but no

[quartz mantle]

You can't learn anything if you keep dying in chamber 6

[bright mango]

I don’t think 50 will ever become “easy” for me

Until I can actually do em4 and stuff

But it’s still going to be a nightmare

[honest kernel]

i recommend you should play the game to have fun, don't force unnecessary challenge upon yourself if you're not feeling up to it

[bright mango]

^

This

[daring elk]

games arent fun

i just play to git gud

[quartz mantle]

Improvement is like a drug tho

seeing heat numbers go up or time number go down make my brain go :)

[daring elk]

do u think anyone who has invested 5k hours into league of legends is having fun anymore?

[bright forum]

what cast for beo friends?

[wintry berry]

Poseidon

[bronze viper]

Probably depends on their friend group

[bright forum]

anything else to look out for?

[bronze viper]

5k doing solo q, def not

[bright forum]

or is that the only thing i should worry about

[quartz mantle]

Dio beo just got nerfed but it's still pretty strong

[honest kernel]

I invested 4k into tf2 lmao

go on shame me

[quartz mantle]

Nyaanyaa will spread her passion flare propaganda but it's a solid option and gives you good access to PS with snow burst

less aoe than pos but more flat damage

harder to get mirage shot tho

[wintry berry]

My first 40 heat clear was with passion flare

[honest kernel]

remind me what passion flare does

[bright forum]

so passion flare or poseidon

[wintry berry]

It's Aphrodite cast for beo

[honest kernel]

gotcha

[mossy zinc]

Passion Flare does damage.

[wintry berry]

Poseidon is your safe bet

[quartz mantle]

It however does not unlock blown kiss

a tragedy

😔

[mossy zinc]

It makes enemies ded.

[daring elk]

what about demeter cast

[quartz mantle]

Snow burst but it takes up your cast slot

and it's bad

[daring elk]

do u high heaters use gods' pride or good luck?

[wintry berry]

Pride

[quartz mantle]

It's up to personal preference I like to use pride tho

even with Beo I find the consistency of pride outweighs legacy

[patent isle]

only 130 hours and youre already on such high heat

im so impressed

im at 119 and havent done 32 yet

[honest kernel]

I'm not at high heat yet but I prefer pride

[devout quiver]

I'm almost done with bounties on Fist, then I'll take a shot at 32.

[honest kernel]

I feel the consistency of epics is better than a slightly improved chance for legs/duos

also epic chance is rly good for chaos and hermes

more valuable then leg chance and duo doesn't apply

[devout quiver]

Pride is certainly much better, optimally speaking, but high rolling with Legacy is so much fun :D

[daring elk]

okies

[wintry berry]

At 50 heat i don't even care, RI2 take it away

[honest kernel]

but at the end of the day, both are viable and it comes down to personal preference

[devout quiver]

fair enough lol

[bright forum]

does swift strike also boost the speed of rush charge?

or only your standstill attack

[honest kernel]

is that the sword one

it only affects stand still attack

[bright forum]

copy

[honest kernel]

and not dash strike

[bright forum]

i was referencing bull rush

sorry

[honest kernel]

oh

rip mb

lol

idk then sorry

[bright forum]

nah it was mine

all g all g

[bright mango]

I just put most of my time playing high heat

I just felt motivated to do it very soon

[patent isle]

whered u make ur jump

[bright mango]

I don’t remember exactly now

But after watching a bunch of tailesque videos, I wanted to get my first 23 heat

I died so I tried again at 32 and got it in the next 5 tries

[honest kernel]

I'm just doing each heat progressively to gain experience and earn bounties :)

[bronze viper]

Lost my streak to hubris :3

[bright mango]

@bronze viper I’m seriously doubting my ability to do this

[bronze viper]

lmao

We're on the same page

Makes it more worth

[bright mango]

Like I died at poseidon sword again

[bronze viper]

My meme streak is far too intense at 32

[bright mango]

Aphro and Theseus wrecked me

Idk how

I didn’t have mirage or lightning

So my damage was poopy

[bronze viper]

Lol, maybe we should revisit this challenge after you've done 24x40?

Seems unfair since I've very recently done that so streaking 32 isn't really just theorycraft for me

[bright mango]

Idk lol I’ve made it to dad several times at 40 with pos sword(em4) so 32 should be easier

Maybe I just do ME

[mossy zinc]

#h1-builds-and-combat message

[bronze viper]

I made some suboptimal choices
https://imgur.com/a/IQB7JGQ

Back at a 1-streak lmao. Back to Guan Yu.

[bright mango]

dio call carry

I’m also at a 1 streak rn

With gilga

[bronze viper]

It'll be too hard for me to track if I keep jumping weapons

[bright mango]

Yeah I just did gilga to get it out of the way

Also I’m running a FO1 pact

[bronze viper]

Probably doing Spear > Sword > Fist > Shield (because I am terrible at Zag shield) > Rail > Bow

[bright mango]

I’m scared of zeus shield

I’m going to have to go td2 for that

Don’t say git gud

[mossy zinc]

Zeus is better than Zag Shield or Chaos for speed.

[bright mango]

Yeah

[bronze viper]

I'm TD2 locked

[bright mango]

But I’m bad

[mossy zinc]

@bright mango git gud.

I've thrown at least a couple 32s today because I was pushing for sub 1 for the Hades fight, which doesn't seem to be doable with Hestia.

I'll need at least 1m 30s.

[bright mango]

Git gud

[mossy zinc]

I have no intention of gitting gud with the rail, I don't particularly like it, and there are too many try-hards playing the weapon to try to go for any records.

[bright mango]

One answer

[mossy zinc]

I don't know how some speedrunners can play nothing but Eris at 9 Heat all day every day.

[bright mango]

Git gud

[bright mango]

Ik

Seriously

After two runs I’m like, now what

[honest kernel]

https://gyazo.com/6b584503299de6e687c30c3d7b67eeb4

Died in the next room

Son of a frick

[mossy zinc]

Damn.

Well done!

[honest kernel]

That was like the fifth attempt

lol

Zeus start, rolled with the dash

[bronze viper]

'Das a spicy a meatball

[honest kernel]

Took tooth in Asphodel

Popped it after lernie because I aced the fight, somehow

https://gyazo.com/f383adbf9974ca71893b34e6c0cb703a

Don't mind the +1 dash from hermes lol

Sudden Rush was more helpful anyways

[mossy zinc]

There are only three possible Lernie outcomes for me it seems like, sometimes.

[bright mango]

Death death and death

[mossy zinc]

(1) I don't get hit at all, (2) I get hit once, (3) I make it out with 5% HP after losing SD.

[honest kernel]

Sounds about right to me

[bright mango]

Ok yeah that sounds about right

[mossy zinc]

You can submit that one, and if you get a better one later on, you can just submit the new one, and your position on the board will be updated.

[honest kernel]

Considering the depth I reached

If anything

I'll just stream the attempts

Since anything beyond that is essentially the Heroes and Styx + EM4

do leaderboard submissions require video evidence?

[bright mango]

Yus we want to see baj streams

[bronze viper]

WHOAH what? If you sell a Rare Cropped boon then buy it back later it still has Rare Crop?

TIL lol

[honest kernel]

It does

Yeah

Mega stonks right there

[mossy zinc]

Submissions for the High Heat Leaderboard require video evidence, yes. If you want to submit a run to Unseeded (the "standard" category), your video needs to show a previous death.

[honest kernel]

gotcha, thanks

[bright forum]

so thats why they start off with dying first, cool

[ember bronze]

where do you submit heat runs anyway?

[shy plinth]

Pinned spreadsheet

[honest kernel]

For regular high heat clears, it should be the second message pinned in this channel

And technically all clear submissions from challenges too

[shy plinth]

#h1-high-heat-strategies message

[ember bronze]

Guess I should at least post my 41 (from November)

For tracking, you need a video showing unseeded?

[bronze viper]

Yep

[honest kernel]

If you want to submit to unseeded, yes

AKA, show the death before that run

[ember bronze]

and that's the one people care about most, I imagine

(just means always recording, hmm)_

[honest kernel]

Pretty much

I learned that lesson the hard way

Missed on recording my 45 heat boonless zag shield run lol

[bronze viper]

I started using Twitch instead of recording. Sometimes people pop in, say hi, hang out, and the recording and export to youtube are ezpz

[honest kernel]

^ It's a solid alternative

[ember bronze]

yeah, I sometimes stream games, but not always

[bronze viper]

And I find that the moods in which I don't want to talk people and I want to push heat are actually more mutually exclusive than I would have thought.

But obviously your mileage may vary with that lol, that was more a personal discovery

[ember bronze]

Even just got a capture card for Switch, this would be a use

[honest kernel]

I find having to interact with others distracting (Read : Tiring)

Even when I occasionally stream on Discord, I have to mute myself some of the time

[bronze viper]

I find I have to be less salty about my mistakes and more critically analyze my play when I'm being watched

[ember bronze]

yeah, sometimes it can help patience that way

[shy plinth]

I just like doing impulse runs and streaming those isn’t smooth

Like if I want to do 1-2 runs not gonna kick the stream on for that

[ember bronze]

it's just not always my mode of playing--totally focused, headphones on, not doing other things, commited to playing for some time etc.

[shy plinth]

Yeah that

[ember bronze]

(That said, I'm not necessarily super bent on competing either)

[bronze viper]

Memes are also way tastier when there are others to share with in real time. That has been #1 value for me

Have I lost... an uncountable number of runs at this point to making memes live? Sure, but that's the fun

[shy plinth]

I will admit that I was recording more and on the verge of streaming when Hades was the main game I was playing

But my game diet tends to be p diverse these days so it’s more doing a run here or there

[honest kernel]

https://gyazo.com/47cf13f6e435a872fe0c9781842f59cc Speaking of memes

S E A S T O R M

[bronze viper]

Hat, what other games do you play? Didn't realize you had so many followers

[honest kernel]

That was in like my second attempt

[shy plinth]

Lolol what

@bronze viper hearthstone is the big one

[honest kernel]

I promptly threw that one to Alecto

[shy plinth]

It’s always alecto

[bronze viper]

Wow, that's some stonks

[honest kernel]

Even had the Rav Will to sell

So that I could get max value

Alas

[shy plinth]

She hits hard

Stupid heightened security blades

[honest kernel]

I didn't get hit much beforehand

[bronze viper]

With Alecto I feel like I'm either on point, line up the shield so she can't shoot nova projectiles, or I miss by an inch, bull rush into the center of the nova and instantly die

[honest kernel]

I just took too many hits because I shouldn't play at midnight

[honest kernel]

That's 100% my experience

[ember bronze]

I'm also just not doing hard stuff

[honest kernel]

"Oh oops, guess I mistimed the rush. Time to die"

[ember bronze]

My secret (going back to Hat's podcast) is that really you can learn the game really well on FO0 when stuff isn't hard

[honest kernel]

But more often then not I get caught off-guard by the quick swipe

While trying to get the block up

[ember bronze]

and go all the way to 32 or a bit higher without getting that great at the combat

[bronze viper]

There's cost/benefit to that. There's a good bit of un/relearning that has to happen when you turn FO2 on

[ember bronze]

indeed

[shy plinth]

Game feels fundamentally different

The boss fights are so much more stressful

[ember bronze]

Yeah I have to try it more like a Sekiro fight, actually play the game of doing the reads

[honest kernel]

Forced Overtime is literally this game's Turbo mode

[ember bronze]

and to some extent, understand when/how much you can attack in neutral

[honest kernel]

You go from being able to react to needing to anticipate

[bronze viper]

I think Hades is the first game I've played whose speed mod affects projectile motion lol

[honest kernel]

That is a big game changer

[bronze viper]

It was pretty jarring at first

[honest kernel]

Wasn't my first I'll tell you that

lmao

[ember bronze]

Died twice to EM2 FO1 today just trying to practice it

[honest kernel]

Lernie rough with Forced Overtime

Or just in general with EM2

[true fable]

i like being less serious on stream

[honest kernel]

lernie is a cutie tho

[true fable]

in a way youre a little less invested in each run

since theyre all just so entertaining

[bronze viper]

Watching fresh file runs is so weird now lol. Lernie so polite. Like does a neat little curtsy and politely summons forth a gentle pink circle around it.

[honest kernel]

"Hey man want to have a talk ? Oh wait I have to kill you HEAD SLAM TIME"

[bronze viper]

Whereas FO2 blue heads be like RAHHHHHH head bop to metal

[honest kernel]

At the rate they bop it better be death metal

lmao

[bronze viper]

They only have The Unseen Ones on their iPods

[shy plinth]

FO2 HL5 lernie heads when you pop during the first transition are so stressful

I hold my breath through the entire second one

Well not literally but

You get the idea

[ember bronze]

Yeah, taking white horned heads really seriously and watching for them

[honest kernel]

I literally take quick glances at the entire arena on the transition

JUST so that I don't get instant-slammed from a mini head

[bronze viper]

It's fine. What I learned from Astaos is that with GY you charge your spin anyway, tank the slam, and finish the fight without your SD. It's pretty much the meta.

It's losing so much theoretical value to not spin at the bubbling lava lol

[true fable]

well

you can charge top left i think

top right idk

top right island is pain

[bronze viper]

I actually hate mini lernie head spawn into instant 1 pixel long charge

more than blue head slam from spawn

[true fable]

yup

[bronze viper]

"K, I'mma just decide to be a hitbox right quick. Okay finished."

[true fable]

lernie animations were just not made for FO2

[honest kernel]

"Allow me to make my best rail special impression as my entrance"

nyoooom

-32

[honest kernel]

Extend that to the entire game

Seriously

[bronze viper]

I have heard legend of people being able to identify the tell for big rats in Styx about to attack.

I think they're all lying lmao

[true fable]

i just do my best to stunlock them from behind

[honest kernel]

Big Rats are like Brightswords. You can't tell what they want from you, and can either attack you super fast in your face, or dip and do ... whatever

Altho Big Rats will tend to just stay at midrange and spray le plague

Outside of that ?

NO

TELLS

Best you can do is estimate when they'll do an action

NOT what they will do

[bronze viper]

I found out the hard way that you can't perfectly stunlock brightswords with Flurry Shot + Epic Swift Strike

[true fable]

yeah

you just have to fire from afar

[honest kernel]

Unless you are fists or flurry jab spear, I don't think you can stunlock them

lmao

Not even with Zeus shield

[true fable]

even with those you cans till get hit

its annoying

[honest kernel]

Hmm Hmm

Guess how my unseeded 64 heat died ?

[true fable]

lol

[honest kernel]

Super fast, unreactable Brighsword face smack

[true fable]

did you use shackle?

[honest kernel]

Accorn

[true fable]

i see

[honest kernel]

Tooth I used after Lernie for a quick heal

[true fable]

tart?

[honest kernel]

Zeus

Rolled with dash

lmao

[true fable]

yeesh

[bronze viper]

I suppose I need to start watching your videos lol, 52 Zeus is coming up soonish on my projects list

Or 53? Maybe 53 is easier. RI0 + TD3 + EM4?

[honest kernel]

Sounds totally doable to me

Altho what's the rest of the pact like

[bronze viper]

That means literally nothing come from you LOL. 64 heat Elysium my butt.

[honest kernel]

EM4 can be done with Zeus shield

But you don't need to

[bronze viper]

I did it already

At 50

[honest kernel]

noice

... actually better then I did. Never bothered with EM4 at high heat

Outside of that routed run

And failed 60+ heat attempts

[bronze viper]

Oh wow lmao you never bothered with EM4 until you were grinding 60+?

[honest kernel]

Yeah

my 57 clear has no EM4

[bronze viper]

Geez

[mossy zinc]

Easy.

[bronze viper]

I tried EM3 RI2/3 for a while but I think my mechanics weren't solid enough to basically play without a high roll. Though to be fair, my eventual 50 clear had like... the most boring, not high rolled build ever lol

[honest kernel]

Sounds like a Zeus shield run to me

legit

Even in speedruns some of my fastest clears had the most basic-ass builds ever

It doesn't need much to deal great damage

[mossy zinc]

You can have a great build but terrible room RNG, or you can have a basic build with great room RNG. I'd take the latter.

[bronze viper]

https://imgur.com/a/L2jiPWg I think for 53 the most reasonable route here is EM3 RI2 TD3

Otherwise same pact

Or shackle AP2 TD3 and take away some of the JS/CP

[honest kernel]

Shackle into Skull Earing is what I did in my 57

With CP2 EM3

[bronze viper]

Shackle into Skull Earring is my spirit animal.

[honest kernel]

It works really well on Zeus shield

Since you can play safer because lol block button

But you can totally do Accorn too

[bronze viper]

Skull Earring is so nasty on mid->high base damage weapons that apply status well

[honest kernel]

https://gyazo.com/8c0cf124ce17a321644f863349407f35 That's the pact with AP2

[bronze viper]

Huh yeah that looks totally doable. And without the EM4 gigantic flaming question mark at the end of the run lol

[honest kernel]

Hmm Hmm

what do you guys think is minimum amount of dodge from plume to make it worth it over other boons

Timer shouldn't be too big of an issue

[honest kernel]

Basically none. The only way to have Plume be worth it is to equip it from the start of the run all the way to the end

yeah ik

[bronze viper]

Keepsakes are great. So like... as long as you're confident you don't miss any rooms... probably still no? Maybe on Zag Fist since you have base dodge.

[honest kernel]

Which is somewhat legit on Zag aspect of fists

I meant from start

[devout quiver]

I think the question is how much movement speed, not dodge, and did you get rush delivery

[bronze viper]

Man, ya'll remember when Zag fists had attack speed but no jk not really?

[honest kernel]

Well depends on how many encounters you can do that will boost the plume. You could get around 9 in Tartarus, 4-5 in Asphodel? 6-8 in Elysium, 2-5 in Styx, but ideally you only have 2-3 in Styx

[bronze viper]

"Good" times. Placebo times.

[mossy zinc]

If you need damage at high heat, you take the Skull Earring, not the Lambent Plume.

[edgy arrow]

plume has a niche where you can use it to force the hermes legendary as well, but that’s not usually worth it

never seen it done for high heat either

[mossy zinc]

You don't take Plume for Rush Delivery.

[edgy arrow]

lol

true

[honest kernel]

You take Plume for Greater Recall and Bad News highroll

Or for Zag Fists Ruthless Reflex shenanigans

[edgy arrow]

but yeah you’re right; just use skull earring or hourglass if you’re confident in survivability and want damage

[devout quiver]

Rush w/ no non plume movement speed

[mossy zinc]

You have near 100% uptime on most aspects with Hyper Sprint.

[honest kernel]

Cries in Rama

[mossy zinc]

That's why Chiron > Rama, obviously.

[bronze viper]

lmao, I got Heroic Sprint on Rama once. With dashing included, you're juuuust short of the window

It's soooo close though

[edgy arrow]

can you shoot something on the other side of the map then quickly dash before the shot hits

[honest kernel]

You could

[mossy zinc]

Sure.

You can dash to release the shot.

[edgy arrow]

good synergy with sniper shot

[bronze viper]

That's a cursed sentence

[edgy arrow]

yeah i’m proud of it ngl

[mossy zinc]

Then we find out Sniper Shot gauges Zag's distance at the time of the actual hit, and it's anti-synergy.

[edgy arrow]

oh no

well, sniper shot would obviously be too powerful otherwise

[bronze viper]

I'm trying to imagine a scenario where Sniper Shot would be "obviously too powerful." Like... basically you'd have to just instantly kill the target you hit right? But that's... every good hammer on Rama lol.

[edgy arrow]

lol true

[shy plinth]

A hammer that turns your bow into hestia doesn't even seem that OP

[edgy arrow]

it’d need to be multiplicative like twin/triple to even start to be “too powerful”

[shy plinth]

"Your attacks hit twice against far-away enemies"

[mossy zinc]

Auto aim at off-screen targets, increased range, and the shot passes through obstacles.

Er.

[bronze viper]

Lol, if only Repulse Shot granted the Rama projectile to destroy/deflect projectiles

Would A. Make sense and B. Be usable.

[mossy zinc]

You're not factoring in opportunity cost.

It does destroy a projectile.

[edgy arrow]

bow hammers really do vary wildly lol

[mossy zinc]

Your own.

[bronze viper]

lmao

Do they though? Not many aspects have 2 tier 1 hammers and 2 hammers that are better than some aspect's tier 1 hammers lmao

[mossy zinc]

What could have been a Twin or Triple Shot has now become a repulsive Shot.

[edgy arrow]

oh i just mean the difference between repulsive shot and twin shot on any build is ridiculously huge

[bronze viper]

And since the Charged Volley removal, Rama's hammer pool is tiny

[honest kernel]

Wait

Rama used to have Charged Volley ?

[edgy arrow]

but you’re right, there’s a fair amount of variance in other weapon’s hammers as well

[bronze viper]

Yes, it was the most epic of stonks

[honest kernel]

lmao

Boosting 3 arrows at 5 base damage each

S T O N K S

[bronze viper]

Charged + Relentless Deadly Flourish Rama stonks

[edgy arrow]

so many stonks

[bronze viper]

1 5 B A S E D A M A G E

[edgy arrow]

good thing they nerfed it

[bronze viper]

(charged)

[edgy arrow]

woah

that’s as a much as a zag shield toss

crazy

[mossy zinc]

Repulse Shot is very nice for learning to do Power Shots with Rama or if you're just not interested in putting that many hours in to practice the positioning.

[edgy arrow]

i think even new players would get more out of twin tbh

like, a lot more

[bronze viper]

Lmao, especially since they buffed Twin Shot in 1.0

The stonkiest

My brain literally couldn't even parse that patch note for a couple of minutes

[mossy zinc]

Better results maybe, but they might be too scared to even try to do Power Shots with Twin Shot.

Repulse Shot is like training wheels.

[edgy arrow]

yeah that’s just because new players undervalue twin shot though

[bronze viper]

God bless new players

Getting broke hammers buffed.

[edgy arrow]

like, i didn’t realise everything was additive when i started out, so as far as i could tell twin shot was just +100% damage with a range nerf

it’s seems laughable that i didn’t notice the difference between additive and multiplicative damage now, but at the time i guess i just didn’t have a good feel for that kind of thing

[bronze viper]

Low key one of the most important changes of 1.0: Adding the word "base" to multiplicative damage. It was a wilderness of he said/she said in EA as to what exactly multiplied and what didn't.

[mossy zinc]

Back when I did my first 32 and first 41, no one had any real idea what was additive and what was multiplicative.

[edgy arrow]

“base” does a good job of making it clear to players who mostly know what’s going on

[bronze viper]

Pretty much every new player made the (actually fairly reasonable) assumption that PS granted 40% multiplicative damage

[edgy arrow]

pretty sure a lot of new players won’t even notice that word

[mossy zinc]

I don't even know if they added the word "base" or if I just never paid attention to it prior until somebody pointed it out to me lol.

[ember bronze]

Yeah, I think it's unintuitive that most stuff is additiave

it's actually a good decision probably, but very unusual

and against usual expectations of players

[edgy arrow]

i think it’s fine, the issue is that it isn’t communicated clearly

and it’s like, kind of super important

[honest kernel]

Also that most of the additive boosts don't amount to much

[bronze viper]

Yeah they could do a better job, but at least they're doing... a job now lol. Before, it was completely arbitrary

[honest kernel]

Sadly

[ember bronze]

it's only important for pretty invested players (to the point of caring about math), always a tricky issue

[edgy arrow]

yeah it’s definitely better than it was

[ember bronze]

What do they do now?

[bronze viper]

"base"

[edgy arrow]

it’s more important for invested players for sure, but i’d argue it’s important for newbies as well

[devout quiver]

Additive makes damage more predictable, which is probably why they did it like that

[edgy arrow]

there were a few times early on where i would be doing far more or far less damage than i expected and i wasnt sure why, and wasn’t able to find out

[ember bronze]

and it limits really explosive synergies

[edgy arrow]

it’s mostly fine, but it inhibits learning the game

[ember bronze]

which is counterintuitive for a roguelikes

but it turns out, they correctly judged they'd have had too much synergy otherwise

[bronze viper]

You get... a lot of boons in this game, especially with the DF rework+buff. This game absolutely could not function with multipliers

[honest kernel]

In fact, they nerfed some of the more busted stuff

A lot

Most notably, Merciful End pre-reqs

[ember bronze]

So things that say "+%" are still always additive, right?

[honest kernel]

Essentially

[ember bronze]

Stuff that's multiplicative are things that intuitively "have" to be like twin shot

[bronze viper]

The rule is everything is additive unless it has the word "base" in it somewhere

[edgy arrow]

unless they have the word “base” in them

like charged skewer or whatever

[ember bronze]

like what?

oh I see

[bronze viper]

Or yeah, stuff that wouldn't make sense to be additive, like Twin/Triple Shot

[honest kernel]

Charged Volley too

[bronze viper]

Some weird ones like Hazard Bomb too

[ember bronze]

otherwise it was kind of hidden knowledge that hammers that changed base weapon damage were special

[edgy arrow]

yeah like, it makes sense if you think about it

but honestly after you’ve put a few hours into the game you just see keywords, like the +% number, what it effects etc.

and if you don’t realise “base” is an important keyword, you’re not gonna know what’s going on

[bronze viper]

Then you see the tooltip for Parting Shot and it's like staring into the semantic version of Cthulu

[edgy arrow]

oh yeah lmao

i remember when they removed it from beo and no one was sure if it was a nerf or a buff to the aspect

[devout quiver]

rip backstab damage

[honest kernel]

Was it when the number went from 400% to 200% as well

[bronze viper]

Similar to Dashing Flight. I only found out about the Eldritch truth of that beauty like a month ago

[ember bronze]

Did we ever figure out parting shot?

[honest kernel]

^

Not sure myself anymore

[edgy arrow]

yeah

backstab damage is global, you need to backstab with your cast to get the benefit

[bronze viper]

With secret text that not all casts can backstab

[edgy arrow]

https://youtu.be/LfyfQD-8ihc

lol i have another clip but proxy won’t let me post two in a row

[bronze viper]

So, to help reinforce my understanding, Dashing Flight is a dash-upper for Shield right? Actually, I think I'm gaslighting myself, I can't remember what it does for sure now lol.

[honest kernel]

It's a dash-upper, yes

[patent isle]

ive been slowly working my way up 1 heat by 1 heat weapon by weapon and have hit 16 heat

i can also clear LC4 FO2 runs consistently

at what point do you jump up heat

[bronze viper]

Do you have EM3 active?

You'll want to pick from the following, one by one to start mixing into your gameplay: BP2, EM3, TD2/3, HL5. These all introduce some pretty aggressive problems

But in general, having LC4 FO2 is already a huuuge step.

[edgy arrow]

yeah if you’re comfortable with that you could prolly start work on 32 whenever you want

[devout quiver]

at what level of LC do y'all think its better to start using SD over DD?

[honest kernel]

LC4

[bronze viper]

0-4

[honest kernel]

Arguably LC3

LC2 is manageable with DD

[bronze viper]

I think line for SD is mostly your comfort level with bosses

[edgy arrow]

there are two options: LC4 and SD, or LC0 and DDs as far as i’m concerned

[honest kernel]

^

[bronze viper]

If you can consistently down bosses in 0-1 DDs, then SD is pretty much just strictly better in every way

[honest kernel]

It technically isn't if you only lose DDs to bosses and not rooms

Because of the lower regen on death

[ember bronze]

I feel like there's little reason to play LC3 or really even 2

[honest kernel]

But as you go up the heat

Rooms are gonna become harder and harder

[ember bronze]

it's in the no-man's land of weak healing but no SD

[honest kernel]

That's where SD kicks in

[bronze viper]

The 4th LC is actually a pretty big cost. Bigggg jump from any number -> 0

[ember bronze]

So basically play LC0-1 (1 is pretty free), or just flip and learn LC4 SD

[honest kernel]

^ I'd do that as well

[ember bronze]

It's much less scary than it sounds

If you get Patroclus, you can have more HP for Hades than in a normal DD run

[bronze viper]

Provided your bossing is on point

[edgy arrow]

it’s very good at making you realise you’re worse at bosses than you thought when you first switch

[bronze viper]

That's step 1 for SD life lol

[edgy arrow]

yeah

[devout quiver]

I played a LC4 SD Run the other day when I was hunting for the Pierced Buttergly achievement and it wasn't as bad as i thought

[bronze viper]

That's... but lol you're playing very specifically to not get hit at all haha

[devout quiver]

shhh

[edgy arrow]

to be fair, we’re all trying to not get hit at all

[bronze viper]

Speak for yourself. I'm honing the craft of getting hit in exactly every worst way possible for the least amount of potential gain possible.

[edgy arrow]

wow

that’s too skilled for me

[bronze viper]

I'm looking at you, spike trap in the center of a gigantic room over a pit, why do I dash into you every time

[edgy arrow]

what is it with spike traps tho

it’s like, i don’t think i actually step in them that often

[honest kernel]

They get you when you 'least expect them

[edgy arrow]

but they make me feel so bad when i do the event is burned into my brain for the next century

[honest kernel]

mood

[edgy arrow]

it’s like, the simplest trap ever

how did i let this happen

[bronze viper]

The best feeling is standing on the edge of a spike trap then casting, and getting scootched back a couple of pixels There is No Escape

[devout quiver]

some runs I never hit a spike trap, and other runs I manage to hit every single one it feels like

[edgy arrow]

ah yes, step-on-every-trap%

[bronze viper]

Speedrun life

[edgy arrow]

a classic category

[bronze viper]

is that too real?

[edgy arrow]

i mean, stepping on spike traps is objectively a great anyheat strat

with level 1 GY, you can instantly fully charge your call

when i say “objectively” here i mean “terrible” ofc

[bronze viper]

Pff, yeah, i'd like to see your stinky DDs do THAT

Gets Last Stand "Oo, nice, burst."

[edgy arrow]

lol

[halcyon flame]

deathless stand on gy with sd seems more like once-per-room damage i-frames

[celest grail]

speaking of iframes, you can abuse the chaos maim curse on a fast weapon like rail or fists

esp if you have low health

it gives you the invincibility bubble when you attack if your health is low

[halcyon flame]

it also scales with % of hp lost or something?

[edgy arrow]

the iframes come from if you lose 20% of your health very quickly (idk the exact time frame)

so yeah you can proc it with a chaos curse if you have a weapon that attacks fast enough, or your max health is low enough

[patent isle]

ty for the advice ohok and ledgerman

[edgy arrow]

np

[bronze viper]

https://imgur.com/a/MPbMPXP

[mossy zinc]

Better yet, take the Flayed curse because it doesn't affect your Dash-Upper.

[patent isle]

i made it to theseus and co on my second 32 heat run

could be worse

[honest kernel]

theseus and co, using that

[hearty onyx]

Should be Asterius and Co.

[edgy arrow]

^

[kindred panther]

still trying to do bow 32... I'm tired of trying chiron. was thinking of trying rama. what is the best 32 rama build, y'all think?

zeus would make sense with rama... I would imagine... I dunno, I don't ever use rama much

[shy plinth]

I'd definitely recommend checking out rama vods in here, especially tailesque's

Rama is just a good weapon, zeus is fine on special but you really just wanna go for a big fatty attack

Usually it's just artemis for attack and then roll a good hammer in tart

[kindred panther]

vod?

[shy plinth]

Video on demand

Check the pinned "high heat clears" spreadsheet, there are a ton of runs with videos

You can see how people play

Watching Tail improved my rama play dramatically

[kindred panther]

okay cool. thanks

[mossy zinc]

I changed the title of the spreadsheet to Hades High Heat Leaderboard, but it seems Discord will forever show Clears in that pin.

[shy plinth]

Reset the embed

Edit the post to encase the url in these <>

Then edit it again to remove them

Shazam

[mossy zinc]

Never! 🔫

You can't make me.

[shy plinth]

https://tenor.com/2y9E.gif

[mossy zinc]

https://tenor.com/view/pan-thumbs-up-dragonball-like-approve-gif-9565085

[honest kernel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/624635342116618243/827840461442908170/unknown.png

spears down

I think I just have 6 aspects to go

[mossy zinc]

Hurray~! Go go go!

[honest kernel]

[celest grail]

dude what is it with shackle and ap2 that attracts dio

ive done three zeus shackle 50 attempts, and all of them started with dio special

[solar maple]

dio special isn't that bad tbf

it's not great, but it's not like dio attack hestia or anything haha

[gaunt fiber]

Hey it almost works

[ashen garnet]

You end up with 30% to 35% against Dad since bosses count and are easier to clear fast than naked witches or swordsmen (Not always able to get those ticks even on JS0 CP0). FO2 is really preferred and you can't really pick hellmode nor JS ... well maybe you can, but you need to have a great build to make up for it. RR Plume fists is good actually, but Hermes has too many boons and meh legendaries

[kindred panther]

I don't quite understand something...
Different League and Broken Resolve have the same % damage reduction by rarity, right? except Broken Resolve only works on enemies you've tagged with Weak; Different League works vs anything. So why would you ever take Broken Resolve over Different League if given the choice?

[gaunt fiber]

Different League only works in a certain radius, you have to be close to melee range "nearby enemies"

Broken resolve is probably the most efficient way to have DR I'd say. You have the 30% weak and then you add the boon bonus. It's always ok to have more DR but I had to choose an option that would be it

[bright mango]

Bronze skin

[celest grail]

not bad, but worse than shackle

[bright mango]

Welcome to the club

All you get with shackle is dio and ares

[karmic marsh]

I wanted to see the last statue so I hopped all the way to 32 heat

I did sixteen in one go and figured, “it can’t be that bad”

I died in Asphodel (._. )

[gaunt fiber]

Hey, congrats for clearing Tartarus

[bright mango]

There’s a really good guide in the pins

[gaunt fiber]

^

[honest kernel]

jumping 16 to 32 is huge

[karmic marsh]

I wanna see what the last statue is 🤣🤣

[karmic marsh]

Thanks I lost a life to the Fury sisters💀💀

[bright mango]

What’s your pact?

Can you post a screenshot?

[karmic marsh]

Yeah Sure, will have to be later tho cus if I open Hades I’m gonna get distracted from my essay💀

[dire steppe]

Broken resolve is additive

It adds to the weak %

[bright mango]

@tropic vessel Also GJ on getting loyalty card on CP2 charon!

[kindred panther]

And what is Different League then?

[bronze viper]

Multiplicative

[kindred panther]

isn't that better than additive?

[solemn pulsar]

for damage, yes

for damage reduction, no

with damage reduction, you start at 100% damage

weak is -30%

[tropic vessel]

thx, I was kinda like "I probably won't finish this run, so I might as well finish this quest", ended up getting both ^^

[solemn pulsar]

Broken resolve adds in 10% at common, for 40% damage reduction total

if different league is multiplicative (not sure, but I think it is) then it's

0.7*0.9 = 0.63, 37% damage reduction total

[kindred panther]

oh I see... cuz then you're multiplying by a number < 1

[solemn pulsar]

yeah

[kindred panther]

adding (a negative number) is better then

[solemn pulsar]

all reduced damage is multiplicative (from multiple sources)

broken resolve is changing the weak modifier, so it's additive

basically they make it impossible to have 100% damage reduction

[bronze viper]

Dodge is additive though

[quartz mantle]

And you can have 100% dodge chance

Granted it’s a gimmick and doesn’t see much play in genuine high heat runs

Since using your keepsake and Zag fists and banking on good Hermès boons aren’t consistent strategies

[solemn pulsar]

zag fists + Ruthless Reflex for 65% dodge chance ain't bad though

[quartz mantle]

Sure but it depends on how comfortable you are using fists with only one dash

[bright mango]

Is the -1 dash worth it?

[quartz mantle]

Just get bonus dashes from Hermès

[solemn locust]

and equip plume

lol

[hearty onyx]

Don't forget second wind and smoldering air!

[bright mango]

Started a new hell mode file!

[gritty flame]

Is EM4 really that bad?

[solar maple]

em4 is pretty tough, and gets much harder with all the heat you take at high heat runs

[gritty flame]

Like if I didn't use a single DD during a Hades fight is there any chance I'd lose 3 and then die with EM4?

[bronze viper]

Trivially

[solar maple]

give it a try!

[gritty flame]

still working my way up

[solar maple]

the em4 fight is much more hectic

especially phase 1

[bronze viper]

I think it's something you can definitely intuit your way around if FO2 is off. It's very hard but like, you can wrap your mind around it.

[solar maple]

my first 10 heat clear was em4

[gritty flame]

I don't gain the bounties for heat 1-10 if I use heat 11 from the beginning, right

[bronze viper]

It takes... so much more effort though with FO2. To even like, start grasping how tf you're supposed to do this.

[solar maple]

but I got it on my 2nd try

way back then

[hoary pasture]

I tried EM4 Guan Yu today and didnt go well lol

[honest kernel]

I did em4 first try on low heat but just thinking about it on high heat makes me go 🥴

[gritty flame]

Can we all agree that EM3 is easy at least?

[honest kernel]

theres miles between unbuffed and buffed dad

[hoary pasture]

Yes

[solar maple]

yeah em3 isn't too bad

[gritty flame]

i just did my first 6 heat run using em3 alone

[bronze viper]

I wouldn't say easy. I still die to it pretty regularly.

[solar maple]

em4 is a much bigger change in difficulty than em3

[bronze viper]

But FO2 is doing a lot of heavy lifting there lol

[solar maple]

yeah FO2 makes asterius charge very tricky to dodge

but other than that the fight is very manageable

[gritty flame]

his charge seems to track better when doing EM3 vs not

[bronze viper]

Yeah I feel the same way, though I'm not sure, since I started learning EM3 roughly at the same time as FO2

My suspicion is that they're the same attack

[solar maple]

probably haha

maybe it's just that whenever I have em3 on I also have FO2 HL5 which makes it much scarier

[gritty flame]

during EM3 my normal Dash forward + summon didn't hit both

[bright mango]

Wait I can customize the pact right after I die👀

[bronze viper]

The aftershocks from Asterius's slams after he phases are also a nightmare to dodge reactively with FO2

[bright mango]

This is hardcore

[solar maple]

fresh file 32 heat 👀

[bright mango]

Made it to phase 2 of meg

This was hard

[solar maple]

on first run?

[bright mango]

Yeah

[celest grail]

i just realized, ive never done em3 without fo2

[bronze viper]

Max heat?

[solar maple]

yeah hell mode first run is tough

[bronze viper]

Oh

first run

[bright mango]

Didn’t even have an attack boon

[celest grail]

lol welcome to fresh file

[solar maple]

I got my first first run clear today

[bright mango]

Yeah I saw!

[bronze viper]

Yeah I saw, grats!

[celest grail]

Where you get an attack boon maybe in mid aspho and ME at heroes

[solar maple]

or last night (this morning)

[bright mango]

Congrats!

[solar maple]

I am going to do it more to try to get a good time

I played slow and had a 3 sack

[gritty flame]

like you cleared on your 1st run on a fresh file?

[celest grail]

yep

[solar maple]

yep

[celest grail]

Its pretty hard

[gritty flame]

nice

[solar maple]

new file, win on first run

[celest grail]

You dont get hermes, or hammers

Plus, no mirror

[bright mango]

Pseudo777| fresh file prodigy

[celest grail]

So, no dash, only 50 health, etc

no dds too

[bright mango]

It’s hard

[solar maple]

no hermes, no hammers, no aspects, no mirror, no chaos, no story rooms, no fountains, no keepsakes, no summons

[gritty flame]

dds?

[wintry berry]

That's turning on RI2

[gritty flame]

mirrorless/routine inspection/underworld customs

That's basically freshfile, yeah?

with basic weapon and no hermes or chaos

[solar maple]

just you, a pool noodle and merciful end

no RI4 is much easier than first run imo

keepsakes + hermes + hammers make a huge difference

[celest grail]

Yep^

[gritty flame]

yeah i bet

[celest grail]

also, fountains heal you for much less health

[solar maple]

yeah fountains are 20% max health

[celest grail]

the fountains after bosses

[quartz mantle]

Fountains don’t exist

[celest grail]

That is

[quartz mantle]

Oh

[celest grail]

lol

[quartz mantle]

Yea those heal for less

The mid biome ones don’t exist

[bronze viper]

Forgot the house contractor buffs fountains lol