#h1-high-heat-strategies
honest kernel
honest kernel
u got this guys I believe
unique zephyr
I don’t think I’d get to the mid shop in Tartarus, but I’m interested in seeing how far I’d go with Hestia
solemn pulsar
Don’t do it. DC2 is pain
unique zephyr
DC2 on Hestia sucks, yeah, is that why Hestia doesn’t really work above a certain heat
Because of DC
So many heat factors which are fine individually are dangerous when put together
solar maple
hestia isn't that great yeah
after some tries the best I got was timing out in c12
eris is real stinky too though
what annoys me about this isn't even the free room rng
or deadly BP combos
it's just unarmored witches
why are they in every room
pls
give me speeder cloner witches back, at least they kill me
instead of taking 8 years to kill
bright mango
honest kernel
hey, not a high heat thing but I need some advice for speedrunning. I wanna speedrun with sword at 0 heat. What aspect and mirror should I use and what boons to look out for
my fastest time atm is ~19 mins, but I wasnt rly trying to go fast
honest kernel
thank you! 
quartz mantle
Also some heat options actually speed the game up
honest kernel
btw when I say speedrunning, I'm not compete with others or get on any leaderboards, just tryna improve my best time
mossy zinc
Ideally, you take EM2 FO2 for speedruns.
honest kernel
oh ok, thanks
quartz mantle
EM2 and FO2 are faster than not using them
Lernie heads are closer and enemies spawn quicker
mossy zinc
But EM2 FO1 or just EM2 alone can be quite good, anyway, especially if you're still practicing.
honest kernel
already watching it lol
mossy zinc
What sword aspect are you trying to use?
honest kernel
whichever one is fastest
I think I've had best luck with arthur cos of it's massive aoe
but please correct me if I'm wrong
mossy zinc
Nemesis or Poseidon.
honest kernel
ok I'll do nemmy
mossy zinc
Deadly Strike, Heartbreak Flourish or Passion Dash, and get Heart Rend.
Plus all the crit boons you can get.
And any Dash-Strike or Attack damage from Master Chaos that you can get.
honest kernel
thanks
mossy zinc
Special > Dash-Strike x2 and Cast > Dash-Strike are your go-to combos.
mossy zinc
Not for IGT, no.
honest kernel
is igt the one that the game records
honest kernel
ok gotcha
mossy zinc
In-game time.
mossy zinc
You basically never want to use the normal 3-hit Attack combo—especially because it prevents you from doing a Dash-Strike until your 3-hit combo finishes.
If you find yourself accidentally using it, you can quickly throw a Cast to reset it.
north dove
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/599449585710006288/827351480875876402/unknown.png made it out of tartarus 
bright mango
Of course
mossy zinc
Hunter Dash is very good, yeah.
bright mango
Retrash
wintry berry
The mad lad
mossy zinc
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/599449585710006288/827351480875876402/unk...
Congratulations! 
honest kernel
oh is that the challenge?
wintry berry
64 heat unseeded incoming
north dove
let's see if I can make it to lernie, I'm not feeling confident lol
mossy zinc
The challenge is pinned in #h1-builds-and-combat.
honest kernel
wow very impressive, well done dude
mossy zinc
Making it out of Tartarus is part of it. The challenge is simply to make it as far as you can.
honest kernel
@mossy zinc thank you so much for your help
mossy zinc
let's see if I can make it to lernie, I'm not feeling confident lol
Good luck!
north dove
solar maple
lmao
wintry berry
Time to iframe those self damages
solemn pulsar
i demand to know how many tries it took to get splash dash and lightning strike
mossy zinc
Since this is Retrash, probably one.
bright mango
Oof
mossy zinc
Well, it won't be damage you're lacking.
You could always anvil into Spread Fire later, if you can make it that far.
north dove
and RIP blue lernie head
mossy zinc
Is the blue Lernie head resting in peace or Zagreus?
honest kernel
lernie is such a cutiepie name
north dove
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/599449585710006288/827354097404477500/unknown.png zagreus of course
honest kernel
not looking good for u
mossy zinc
Nicely done. 
honest kernel
but hey u made it there well done :p
wintry berry
Not bad tho
unique zephyr
Or at least get to Hades
north dove
no way lol
bright mango
Yes way
solemn pulsar
i dont think you folks understand what elysium is
bright mango
Guys I’m joking (although I believe in you)
north dove
or chariots or swordmen or bowmen... etc.
mossy zinc
Have you tried simply getting +4 dashes from Lord Hermes and Eurydice?
north dove
nope
honest kernel
well done
bronze viper
@bright mango, how are we like... measuring the 24x32 Splash Dash streak? As in if I want to start now for funzies. Whatever I'm doing it. The race is on.
mossy zinc
There's a multi-run tab with its own submission form on the high heat leaderboard.
bronze viper
Nah this is a completely arbitrary 1v1 race, for no stakes whatsoever, with no ability to measure it fairly or equally
Also I'm modding to seed common splash dash in every run.
bright mango
Wait what
bright mango
I thought we could do any build
bronze viper
That's the general idea of a streak :3
bright mango
Ok lol
I don’t have another save so this is what I’m going to be doing for the next week or so
mossy zinc
The multi-run tab is not used at all tbh except for bablo's 40 Heat streak. We can adjust it for your needs in any way you want. Just let @shy plinth know what you need.
mossy zinc
Well, m just thinking of using it to help you keep track.
bronze viper
Wait you can't copy files on Switch?
bright mango
You can?
bronze viper
I was asking lmao
bright mango
I don’t think so lol
mossy zinc
Since it's not a strict leaderboard, and you were asking how to keep track of your streaks.
bronze viper
RIP. Yeah I'm just using my normal mode save since I never play it unless I'm "speedrunning" (I have to use quotations for that. it's a rather embarassing display when it happens)
mossy zinc
m not a speedrunner, either.
Sometimes I just do runs relatively fast, and some of them happen to be WRs because no one else plays the category or aspect.
bronze viper
That's about right. I have top 8 50 heat and top 3 beo lol.
mossy zinc
So no WRs.
bronze viper
Nawp
bronze viper
Actually... maybe? No one has submitted a 50 Chiron yet lmao
I didn't want to because mine was 51 and the time was mega yuck
mossy zinc
#1 on the board doesn't mean it's WR.
bronze viper
Pffft
mossy zinc
Not something a commoner would understand.
bronze viper
oh phew I can actually very barely max every aspect with my resources in my save lmao
edgy arrow
wait why are there only 2 runs on the board
edgy arrow
i demand like 16 runs that died in room 2
i mean, no one’s winning this thing lol
it’s just about trying, so literally anyone can complete it
welp, no one’s done beo yet
here i go
wait cgull actually got to 13 that’s kinda impressive
patent isle
whats the highest heat someone's actuallybeaten?
bronze viper
I died at 10 on my unseeded death reset run
solar maple
welp, no one’s done beo yet
I was going to submit once I cleared tart
I've gotten to furies 3 times and gotten real close
edgy arrow
lol uh oh
solar maple
timed out
edgy arrow
my plan was to submit when i cleared tart as well
if you can't do it i definitely won't be able to
solar maple
well 3 times with beo
I also got to furies with nem and rama
nah it's possible you just need to not get 30 witches in c9 :/
solar maple
entered furies with 12s on the clock
edgy arrow
oof
solar maple
pain
edgy arrow
oh the change to beo's cast loading went through?
did anyone actually work out what that was
solar maple
they shadow nerfed dio beo
not even in the notes
still no idea what the loading thing was
edgy arrow
what was the dio beo nerf?
bronze viper
That's revolting. Chain shot is tied with Twin Shot on my normal mode save for most selected hammer
edgy arrow
the only change to trippy flare in the notes is for hera only by the looks of it
edgy arrow
yeah looks like its the same as trippy shot now, according to the codex
solar maple
at any rarity/pom level
edgy arrow
at least for common
solar maple
correct
bright mango
@bronze viper this is going to be less of a race for me and more of “can I actually streak 6x32”
edgy arrow
yike is this gonna wipe half the beo anyheat board
that's a bit harsh for all those folks
bronze viper
My knees are weak right now dreading Zagius 32. I'm starting off there
bright mango
Ok that’s stonks for me
bright mango
Yeah idk if I can actually pull it off
edgy arrow
why are ya'll using zagius tho
bronze viper
You meant 24x32 right?
edgy arrow
is this a zag aspects streak
unique zephyr
Zag sword 32 sounds painful
bright mango
Mistyped
honest kernel
what are the best and worst zagspects
bronze viper
Starting off weak
unique zephyr
I like zag bow
mossy zinc
i was looking forward to one i could complete <:Pepega:755120984654086224>
You picked the wrong day of the wrong month for that. 
edgy arrow
what are the best and worst zagspects
best is poseidon, worst is nemesis #fightme
bronze viper
Bow > Shield > Fist > Rail > Retrash > Spear
edgy arrow
oh wait zagspects
honest kernel
yeah zag aspects
edgy arrow
i was thinking swords lol
patent isle
wow someone actually managed 64
edgy arrow
what ledger said, except spear is better than sword
edgy arrow
like, i understand that base kit zag sword is better than base kit zag spear, but i refuse to believe any aspect that can get flurry jab is the worst in the game
patent isle
is the 64 run on youtube? i found tailesques 60 but not bajs 64
edgy arrow
yeah it is
bright mango
Stupid YouTube algorithm
mossy zinc
Yes. It's on the Seeded tab of the leaderboard.
edgy arrow
bright mango
Thumbnail made by Cgull
patent isle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SOHrcKzC_g
ty
edgy arrow
np
patent isle
is there a reason he hits his summon a few times at 1:10
edgy arrow
yeah that's part of the route
bright mango
To manipulate rng
edgy arrow
you can't just set a seed in hades, because a new seed is generated every room
so you gotta influence the rng so that new seed is the one you want
its complicated
bright mango
@bronze viper you’re actually cheesing it with splash dash
patent isle
at 2:31 baj takes heart over ares boon
how do you make those decisions at AP2 :0
its miniboss ares, too
bright mango
It was already made
solemn pulsar
It is I the puppet master
bright mango
Bwahahahah
solar maple
in the feathers
honest kernel
Let me free pls
patent isle
ohh
interesting
also does killing the shades in sisyphus room also somehow affect rng or was thart just messing around
bright mango
Removing the pots does
honest kernel
Shade movement can affect rng
bright mango
Wait really?
honest kernel
ye
bright mango
I thought it was the pots
honest kernel
It's both
bright mango
Ah ok
honest kernel
Don't want to accidentally crush an urn while casting to get the increments
quartz mantle
Actually had a pretty decent 63 attempt but got Explosive shot on Rama and died in chamber 12 😔
honest kernel
oof
quartz mantle
Also I think the max hell mode save on src is messed up and I don't feel like grinding out a hell mode save so 63 will be my limit
solemn pulsar
Just rename it to .sac
quartz mantle
I tried renaming it to a .sav but it didn't do anything
solemn pulsar
Sav
That’s all it takes
And replace that profile in your saves folder
What happens when you do that
quartz mantle
The file is still empty
solemn pulsar
In hades?
quartz mantle
Yea
patent isle
Actually had a pretty decent 63 attempt but got Explosive shot on Rama and died ...
wait were you forced to take explosive :o
quartz mantle
That is how AP works yes
quartz mantle
it applies to boons, hammers, and poms
at AP2 a pom is the same as a Nectar
more or less
north dove
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/599449585710006288/827370875136770058/unknown.png I made it back here
quartz mantle
Gamer
solar maple
are you starting zeus keepsake or tooth?
edgy arrow
i just lost to furies purely because of tempest strike lol
solar maple
nvm saw heroic
edgy arrow
lost a silly amount of time in chamber 11
north dove
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/599449585710006288/827371501917175828/unknown.png?width=1202&height=676 HE'S DONE IT 😄
edgy arrow
stonks
solar maple
edgy arrow
lmao when retrash randomly clears 64 unseeded
north dove
I'm seeding lightning strike so it doesn't count
quartz mantle
Wait how red if you're starting with it
vital grove
Well em4 is like a joke to him so there's that
north dove
do I take collar into elysium just to survive a little bit longer?
edgy arrow
yes
quartz mantle
is there a way to upgrade rarity in Tart?
edgy arrow
keep it going
north dove
Eurydice upgraded it
vital grove
Hey when you find Patty take the heal
solemn pulsar
Lc4 tho
vital grove
Ye ye but I think it still heals?
bronze viper
YUSSSSS, 32 Zag sword down. 300 health, with a DD and perfect boons and I had more fear than 53 Hestia smh
vital grove
Cause iirc it displays a heal value
solemn pulsar
It’s wrong
quartz mantle
I don't think it says it's affected by LC
vital grove
And nobody ever tried it since touch is godmode
quartz mantle
unless I've just never touched it
north dove
oof died to chariot room
quartz mantle
F
solemn pulsar
It is though
north dove
2 chambers in
vital grove
Try it with rama
devout quiver
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SOHrcKzC_g
lol special damage from Bouldy
edgy arrow
lol didn't even notice that
devout quiver
probably just a coincidence but lol
edgy arrow
that'd be hilarious if cgull routed in special damage from bouldy
quartz mantle
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459479648603078658/827373980049604617/unknown.png comedy moment
edgy arrow
lol
vital grove
Ah, the best boon in the game to show how Alpha you are
Oh, patch is out.
Now Beowful will be unstoppable.
...imma keep that one
honest kernel
my beowulf run
I just spammed attack like I was smashing my face against a brick wall'
I had no idea how to use it
edgy arrow
try doing that but also spamming cast in between
frail compass
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459479648603078658/827369973990031421/unk...
Since it looks like nobody has answered yet, you probably have file extensions set to not display, so what you did is rename the file to Profile3.sav.lss. Go to View and tick File Name Extensions
unique zephyr
Not a high heat question but a theoretical question related to heat: I basically thought about for fun what the worst 8 heat pact would be and I concluded it's max routine inspection.
Or at least, it's way up there in terms of "worst pacts to get the 8 heat statue"
And from doing mirrorless runs I appreciate the mirror even more than I already have as I grew the mirror
ember bronze
I think RI for sure
hearty onyx
Some combination of AP2 and other stuff is also sure to be unfun
ember bronze
So, what are typical ways to set up Zeus shield? I don’t know much about it
hearty onyx
Zeus special
ember bronze
Is that the obvious standout, or are there other ideas like ME or something?
dire steppe
I live in RI so I always take that pact
shy plinth
Thunder flourish is quick and easy but zeus shield might be the most mechanically intense weapon in the game and responds really well to practice and tight play
ME is definitely doable, you could even like splitting headache or something
shy gulch
zeus shield is really flexible with builds
zeus special, ME, heart rend, are the most common i believe
true fable
Is that the obvious standout, or are there other ideas like ME or something?
ME with doom on special or attack is nice
its pretty flexible since you dont need athena dash as badly as other ME builds
shy gulch
yeah not needing dash + doom can be on special or attack
makes it much much more flexible than other ME builds
hearty onyx
Speaking of that I really need to get better with Zeus Shield
The knockback is my enemy
true fable
like the knockback from your attacks?
for me one big thing was learning to just
not attack
if you want to stunlock an enemy special + dash strikes dont do knockback
ember bronze
So support fire is pretty good on Zeus
unique zephyr
why is triple jab considered a bad spear hammer?
unique zephyr
On hades spear is that or flaring spin better
i'm having a hammer choice between 3 mediocre hammers
i thought people called triple bad because it was actively detrimental somehow
thanks for clarifying
unique zephyr
I wasn't sure what it even did since I don't really remember how things changed when I used it at low heat, now I know it's because of the hammer not because of my bad memory haha
hidden torrent
Does Merciful End trigger when you use a deflect ability, or when the ability deflects? Basically, would the blitz shield trigger ME every tick, or do you have to use the special for ME to trigger?
honest kernel
It's whenever you use an ability that deflects. Doesn't need to deflect to trigger
On Zeus shield, it is stupid strong
hidden torrent
So on Zeus it triggers every tick? I was thinking of doing an ME run with Zeus but it would be pointless if you had to throw your shield to trigger ME.
hearty onyx
Zeus shield ME is doom attack deflect special right?
honest kernel
So on Zeus it triggers every tick? I was thinking of doing an ME run with Zeus b...
It can proc on every tick
hidden torrent
Damn, that's sick.
honest kernel
Zeus shield ME is doom attack deflect special right?
I prefer doom special, but you can alternate between the two
Doom Special gets better pom scaling
And Charged Shot being a thing makes Athena attack a little more attractive
hearty onyx
I'll try that out
hidden torrent
Doom Special gets better pom scaling
Doom special would be harder to pull off though, as you'd have to keep the shield on the enemy for the doom damage. I think doom attack would be more consistent.
shy gulch
well you need to do that if you have it the other way around too, athena special needs to hit the enemy to proc ME
honest kernel
That's only relevant if you have Athena Dash
And I'd argue that with Explosive Return, doom on special is better anyways
shy gulch
explosive return 😩
shy gulch
does it proc twice if you have pulv blow and doom on attack??
like does the special hit quickly enough for that
honest kernel
Well, it can proc between the hits
hearty onyx
Well, the whole point of using Zeus Shield was that you can still use ME without needing the dash
honest kernel
It's mostly because of Athena Dash being able to get extra procs
honest kernel
Well, the whole point of using Zeus Shield was that you can still use ME without...
That is one of them
The others are good innate damage output, and the ability to just pick whatever Ares gives you, without needing to spend a roll
As much as Merciful End can be, erm, inconsistent, Zeus shield does it the more consistently
Altho it doesn't use extra dashes as effectively as the other weapons
But it doesn't need to
shy gulch
well yeah the one unfortunate thing is that it has fewer scaling options
ME fists have +dashes and RD from hermes
zeus shield only really has RD
bronze viper
And I'd argue that with Explosive Return, doom on special is better anyways
What is the interaction between Doom special and Explosive Return?
shy gulch
enemies hit by the aoe explosion also have doom on them
hearty onyx
Wait they do?
hearty onyx
The explosion counts as part of the special move?
shy gulch
its very very nice
hearty onyx
Damn I never noticed that
honest kernel
What is the interaction between Doom special and Explosive Return?
Hmmm Hmmm
honest kernel
zeus shield only really has RD
And in return, gets the ability to non-stop proc Merciful End, without having to watch out for the dash cooldown
On top of that, it gets hammers that can increase the ammount of Merciful End procs
Also, Doom Special pom scaling is really high
ember bronze
LC4 and Stubborn Defiance still common? Just practicing it again. Still always just hoping for Patroclus?
bronze viper
Yes and yes.
Though it gets easier and easier to wean yourself off of Patty over time lol
EM4 helps with that. Patty buff is nice but only increases the number of big hits you can take from Dad by like 1 or 2 maybe per DD. Probably 1. Or 0
"Helps"
ember bronze
Yeah, just did EM4 without it (2 30% DDs), but only heat 24
Should just keep practicing that fight
Back in Zeus—so you hope for divine strike, ME, then divine dash anyway because divine dash?
(Also what are good hammers on shield)
bronze viper
It's a fun fight, and the earlier you commit to learning it, the less agonizing it'll be at 50+, when it's "necessary"
I really love Charged Shot as long as it's not EM4. Explosive Return, Sudden Rush, Ferocious Guard, the ones that modify attack are less good but fine
ember bronze
Why does charged shot change?
bronze viper
Also are you committed to ME for memes? Because Thunder Flourish is more consistent high roll with a much more even progression curve than Curse of Pain.
You lose invincibility as soon as you release the shield with Charged Shot
And you lose the mobility
ember bronze
Not really, just playing different things while getting used to shield
Thunder Flourish wants to just try for splitting bolt and typical Athena defenses?
bronze viper
Jolted is big
Splitting Bolt is fine but you can complete basically any run with Jolted + poms
Double Strike is also great by itself
You can go Demeter for Cold Fusion, Aphro for Smoldering Air, Ares for... well, you don't really ever go for Vengeful Mood but Curse of Agony, especially with rarity pairs really well with Thunder Flourish as a secondary damage source.
ember bronze
Mhm, all sounds fun
And being less rigid than ME is nice
Here’s a general question (I just did a Rama run, doing a Zeus run now)
What exactly to swift stike/flourish do?
Are they always faster attack/special rate?
(Shorter anim etc.)?
bronze viper
Basically nothing? Literally, Swift Strike on bow affects your standing (non dash) charge speed
ember bronze
Or are they sometimes bad because they don’t speed up what matters (e.g. Rama)
bronze viper
Swift Flourish on bow decreases the time it takes to complete the special animation, which lets you use it more. On Zeus I believe it makes the shield go faster
Not hit faster
Just go faster
bronze viper
Yeah, Swift Strike is good on malphon, rail, etc.
Swift Flourish is great on Chiron... uh... surely something else
bronze viper
With Thunder Flourish yeah that's fine. With Dio, eh
Oh, right, Swift Flourish is good on Guan Yu with or without Charged Skewer, on other spears with Exploding Launcher, and on Rocket Bomb shenanigans with Rail
ember bronze
I always have a special place for Eris Rocket Bomb
mossy zinc
Charged Shot is like easily #1 for any pact that doesn't have EM4.
celest grail
Epic Swift flourish with rocket bomb+ epic greatest reflex beats epic rush delivery on eris if you know how to use it
mossy zinc
I don't know about that.
bronze viper
Why do you need dashes for that combo...
celest grail
dashes for tidal dash spam
celest grail
(not my own research btw, just quoting lili here)
bronze viper
Maybe at least. Deadly Flourish crits with Rush Delivery damage kinda pog
mossy zinc
It also amplifies everything else.
Well.
I'll trust Lili's judgment on Eris more than my own.
Epic Greatest Reflex also just means you traverse rooms so much faster. That saves a lot of time.
bronze viper
It's also just better for small enemy rooms
You don't need Rocket Cluster for unarmored witches lol
mossy zinc
For unarmored Witches, you need good room RNG after that to make up for the loss in time.
Or a good trap to step on.
Worst chambers early on are probably Bruiser, though. They cost so much time if you don't have damage yet.
Later on, you can have so much AOE or burst damage that they don't really matter.
bronze viper
Good 'ol Nighty Night Bruisers, that take multiple nuclear payloads to strip their armor
mossy zinc
I've reset in Tartarus when speedrunning and getting 3 Bruiser chambers in a row lol.
mossy zinc
Good 'ol Nighty Night Bruisers, that take multiple nuclear payloads to strip the...
TFW three Snakestones take at least twice as long as EM3.
bronze viper
I can't even imagine how that left the dev room floor lol. Surely someone had to have fought like... anything with bruiser from that patch and gone "oh god no we can't do that."
mossy zinc
lol
Well, 32 was actually still considered high heat at the time.
And 40+ had way fewer clears than 50+ does now.
bronze viper
Lmao, even at 3 heat BP1, with Splitting Bolt Chaos (since no one played Eris yet), you're looking at a boss fight with a Bruiser Pest
mossy zinc
I mean we still consider 32 high heat, but for most of us, it's like the very low end of high heat.
Like if you do high heat, then 32 is probably free wins for you.
bronze viper
Dark Foresight has democratized low high heat as much as Hestia has democratized high high heat.
mossy zinc
I think it was only when they saw a small community grow for high heat and the results we got that they started balancing a bit more towards that.
Blood Price kind of gave us most of what we wanted for high heat, didn't it.
bronze viper
Like Wringers
bronze viper
mossy zinc
Elite Wringer chambers either take 2 seconds or what feels like 50 and is probably 20.
The worst enemies they added in Blood Price are Dracons.
bronze viper
I don't know why they made Elite Wringers move faster without Speeder
mossy zinc
Wringers make you feel very stupid when they grab you, but they're not actually particularly difficult.
Dracons take no prisoners.
bronze viper
Cloner Wringer rooms are particularly difficult for melee lol
mossy zinc
I don't actually think that's true.
Cloner Wringers are some of the fastest chambers for me on Malphon.
Hmmm.
bronze viper
I think for me that's only true if I start Lightning Strike
mossy zinc
I guess sword is a lot worse because sword doesn't have a good Attack combo and an honestly awful Dash-Strike lol.
The hitbox on that Dash-Strike is atrocious.
bronze viper
The hitline
mossy zinc
One day we'll find out there's a bug that makes it only a pixel wide.
"Oh yeah, that feels like what I've been using. That explains a lot."
bronze viper
The feeling of dash striking back and forth to kill a numbskull and missing twice
I don't know the function of that that is lack of player skill or Stygius being terrible. Column A Column B if I had to guess.
bronze viper
Or Splash Dash. I find the knockback helps autoaim hit the target correctly
mossy zinc
Part of me wants to do 32 Heat Excalibur WR with a Cast build.
bronze viper
Or just kills the enemy outright without pressing that god forsaken attack button
bronze viper
I just finished a 32 Excalibur (I finished 4x32 swords first lol) with most of the damage coming from Razor Shoals + Hyper Delivery
Felt like sufficient disrespect to close out Stygius
mossy zinc
What was your time?
bronze viper
Bad. I stopped using attack in protest around mid Elysium
19:32 lol, I didn't attack Dad
mossy zinc
Oh right, you haven't done 32 with all aspects yet? I keep forgetting you're still catching up with things like that lol.
bronze viper
Strictly speaking... no I have not lol
I did 24x40
But this will be my first 32 with many of them
mossy zinc
Oh.
Guess m the one who's got catching up to do. I haven't done 40 with all of them yet lol.
bronze viper
That's what whatever combination of Smoldering Air, Sea Storm, or Merciful End are for.
mossy zinc
m actually emotionally not capable of starting any run without the Eternal Rose anymore lol.
bronze viper
The 4x32 is the first part of the 24 aspect streak with Pengy lmao
I'm doing spear tomorrow, starting with Guan Yu (realllly should have started with GY, I totally forgot it existed)
mossy zinc
I did one the other day to research something, and I just felt so bad and guilty the whole run, I had to do a couple with the Eternal Rose after that just to cleanse myself.
bronze viper
That weapon has a definite fail rate with BP2 FO2 lol
mossy zinc
Yay emotional overexcitabilities.
Nah, you can do BP2 FO2 at 32 reliably with Guan Yu. Don't look at the negatives of the aspect, look at what you can do to get more consistent results.
bronze viper
I didn't know whether to put Swords first or last, to offset the emotional whiplash of having to play Sword again or to have the pressure of needing to rely on Sword to finish the streak at the end.
mossy zinc
Stygius 32 is honestly chill if you to TD2.
TD3 kinda pushes you to take risks with mindless Dash-Strikes lol.
bronze viper
Yeah for sure, I'm doing TD2 to streak. Splash Dashes all the way down.
ember bronze
Mm, just got hit by Cerberus
ember bronze
When does he come? Always at the phase 2 break?
bronze viper
It's kind of in a health range in phase 2.5?
It's not constant I don't think
At the phase 2 break he starts the heal
Some point after that doggo comes to play
honest kernel
yo, does his phase 3 bar have a shield break
mossy zinc
Pretty sure he can summon him whenever he wants from phase 2 part 2 on. It's just part of his moveset lol. Probably some minimum amount of actions he needs to do between summons, though.
honest kernel
yknow how in phase 1 at 3rd hp intervals he gets shield?
bronze viper
There are no phases in p3
bronze viper
He starts off at like 80% health I think? To allow him to heal and crush your spirits
honest kernel
I see him stand still and do nothing like wtf u doin man and then his hp bar starts going up 
bronze viper
honest kernel
there is a gargantuan skill increase between em3 and em4
honest kernel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDkMUaANKws
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
bronze viper
lmao
honest kernel
dude if that happened to me
omg
that hurt just to watch
the poor guy that recorded that 😭 😭 😭
honest kernel
omg that was you, I'm so sorry
bronze viper
But I was laughing hysterically for a while after it happened.
honest kernel
that would have been agony
bronze viper
Sad/happy laughter
honest kernel
yeah
bronze viper
It was totally my fault. I wasted dashes and went in a terrible location, instead of behind the pillar. My spaghetti was flooding out of my pockets though and I thought he died for sure like 3 times
I mentally checked out after the Meg, I was pretty sure it would kill him
mossy zinc
Yeah, looks like he can summon Cerberus just any time he wants in phase 2 part 2.
honest kernel
ngl I probably would have just stuck on him and spam dash and attack in the blind hope I kill him before he kills me
bronze viper
With shield you can near guarantee dodge it by bull rushing southwest, the opposite direction that Cerb goes up the screen, since the circles cluster perpendicularly to where he is
There's also the """"""""""""safe"""""""""""" spot in the bottom right of the map
That tends to not have circles appear in it, but this is not guaranteed
bronze viper
You can do the southwest thing with hyper sprint or extra dashes too
It's pretty hairy with 2 dashes though
mossy zinc
Yeah, in my practice save when they added the fight, I figured out the "bottom right of the map" strategy very quickly, and then just as quickly gave up on it lol.
bronze viper
Lol, it's a decent strategy, until 4 bombs appear in that corner and teach you a lesson for wanting to "save your DD for phase 3"
pfft
mossy zinc
I think it's very possible to i-frame him consistently with Dash, I just never felt like grinding the fight that much.
bronze viper
You can iframe 1 bomb if it appears in that corner, but not two since they're slightly offset
mossy zinc
I mean anywhere on the screen lol.
bronze viper
Yeah, that too. The bombs all drop at arbitrary timings so it's like really really hard with FO2 to actually iframe them. Half the time when you dodge a circle will appear below you
mossy zinc
I don't think a circle appears on the same spot twice, right?
mossy zinc
Yeah, but you can use that get out. It just happens so fast and so rarely, there's very little time to practice it.
I wish you could just have a practice save starting at phase 2 lol.
bronze viper
Yeah. Also if you're EM4 you're probably also PL, so pretttty much no matter what you're losing a DD if you mess up
mossy zinc
And also one at phase 3.
I guess I could just mod the game for practice, and then reset the files for normal runs. Hmm.
Like, just make all phases whichever phase you want to practice lol.
bronze viper
It's probably fine anyway, since phase 1 is probably the most technically demanding
mossy zinc
No, that's what I don't like for practice saves, actually. You're so worn out for phase 2 and phase 3 just by having to go through phase 1 every time.
If you could grind those phases individually, you'd feel so more relaxed in phase 1 knowing it's a breeze after that.
bronze viper
As breezy as that fight can be, anyway
mossy zinc
I also like my practice saves to be Maxy with no hammers and a very very basic boon build, and that just means I barely make it through phase 1 at all lol. I'd like to practice phase 2 and phase 3 like that more, too.
Whenever I get to it.
Still not a high priority, at the moment.
bronze viper
I think it's fine to practice EM4 with a real build, partially for sanity and partially because you're likely to have either RI0 or AP1 (not both, but one of them)
So you'll have a semblance of a build, if not a complete one.
honest kernel
sanity? go back to don't starve
ember bronze
Well, still remember what’s going on I think: https://twitter.com/HamletEJ/status/1377900138438348801
Silly run—rocket/cluster, RD, and a funny Tempest Flourish capstone. Wish that happened when I was trying 44...
mossy zinc
Congratulations!
ember bronze
So the Achilles thing is that it better lets you queue throw directly into charge?
honest kernel
wym
shy plinth
The input buffering
ember bronze
Thought I saw someone saying Achilles got easier to use
honest kernel
oh I didnt make use of that really
mossy zinc
Congratulations! 💕
ember bronze
I’m just asking for me
shy plinth
I was honestly never super clear on what changed
It just felt like things worked better both before and after spear throw
mossy zinc
If you double-tapped Special too quickly, you wouldn't get the Rush. They improved the input buffer for that. But I don't think the Rush can actually happen sooner, you can just do the input sooner. They also increased charge speed.
Pretty sure that's what it was, anyway.
ember bronze
Yeah, it feels like throw/rush is way faster, but it could easily just be that
mossy zinc
Patch notes only mention input buffer and charge speed.
It's possible they changed the cancel window along with the input buffer.
honest kernel
I see I didnt play much achilles before so I didnt notice any difference
honest kernel
honestly not a big fan of how the rush works it feels very unsafe
but getting hunting blades just kills everything faster
ember bronze
It was my first learning weapon really
And yeah, Stygian, +1 cast, Hunting Blades
Bad News if you go full bore
It’s great
mossy zinc
Well, you can rush away from enemies. You don't need to rush torwards them.
gaunt fiber
honestly not a big fan of how the rush works it feels very unsafe
Legend says it's coded to make you yeet into traps/urns
honest kernel
pretty much
I kept dying in asphodel bc I yeet myself into the magma
well I died like 1 time
but it scarred me
honest kernel
I feel like auto aim does funny things with it a lot of the time
celest grail
this is where mkb players have atleast a slight advantage
i can aim my achilles special wherever i want
ofc, my mouse will still aim at the magma
but i do have the freedom
shy gulch
yeah basically the update to achilles was to make it smoother to play
kindred panther
Hey everyone. I have been able to do 32 heat with all the weapons except for the bow and the shield. I did the others using LC4 CF2 EM3 BP2 MM UC FO1 DC2 TD3, but with the shield (chaos) I am always too slow (and swapping FO2 <-> TD2 makes Hades too hard), and with the bow (chiron) I've come very close... I can probably get the bow on my own eventually but I definitely need some tips for the shield.
Thanks.
gaunt fiber
@north dove Your EM4 fight (51 Zag sword clear) is amazing. I know you had Divine Protection, but still you did not lose a single hp for the whole fight. I think I'll just study your videos :D
mossy zinc
Hey everyone. I have been able to do 32 heat with all the weapons except for th...
Do CF1 FO2 DC0. That should speed things up a lot.
kindred panther
Do CF1 FO2 DC0. That should speed things up a lot.
Which shield aspect do you think is best and what build should I run for it?
mossy zinc
I honestly don't think it matters much for 32 Heat. Whichever shield you prefer.
gaunt fiber
If you're used to Beowulf, you'll destroy 32
mossy zinc
If you "destroy" 32 Heat, you'd do that with any shield, though.
mossy zinc
In any case, personal preference and practice are what's gonna help you most. If you struggle with TD, don't use JS CP DC because they slow you down. CF and UC will also slow you down. FO can speed up the run.
If you can get to Hades reliably with FO2 TD2, it seems only a matter of time and practice to finish the fight. And CF0 would help you get a much stronger build with more HP.
kindred panther
Honestly the only one I would say I "destroyed" was, surprisingly, with the Zag spear. I ended up getting like 2 or 3 purple chaos boons, all giving the special like 90-105% extra damage, and ran a poseidon special with the explosive launcher. It was... easy.
gaunt fiber
Yeah sometimes the build is just gonna carry you
mossy zinc
DC0 will also make the Hades fight easier because skull casts will be no problem at all.
Do you use the Acorn for Hades?
kindred panther
Yeah
gaunt fiber
Honestly pick any aspect and slam poseidon aspect
This is what I do for 50 heat
Poseidon call
kindred panther
I think more than anything the chaos boons carried me through that one. I must've had +250%-300% extra special damage by the time I hit Hades
kindred panther
Honestly pick any aspect and slam poseidon aspect
You meant to say poseidon call? Or you were talking about the poseidon shield aspect?
mossy zinc
A very simple but effective strategy for any shield is to reset until you get Charged Shot in Tartarus. It should be a rather simple run from there. DPS shouldn't be a problem.
mossy zinc
It's a hammer upgrade for shield.
gaunt fiber
You meant to say poseidon call? Or you were talking about the poseidon shield a...
Yep the call
Charged shot replaces your bull rush with a powerful 80 base damage shot
kindred panther
How do you "slam" a call? You only get to use it at the very end of the encounter unless you have a bunch of call-related boons
Ohhh okay I know charged shot
for some reason that name didn't seem right but I'm probably just not remembering it clearly
gaunt fiber
Some aspects will build god gauge efficiently so the call can be a real help. I was mostly joking but if you get poseidon's aid with rip current, you'll have a powerful room clear and still very nice for bossing
You should not aim for this but be aware of that possibility
mossy zinc
Heartbreak Strike + Charged Shot > Zeus' Aid > Smoldering Air. That can easily carry a run.
On Chaos and Zeus, you could Thunder Flourish instead of Zeus' Aid and pair it with any Call of your choice for Smoldering Air.
On Beowulf, you could take Passion Flare instead of Heartbreak Strike.
bright forum
quick question since it seems this chat is active, how are people getting the fancy end screens? is that post epilogue? do they cost gems at the contractor once unlocked? :OOO
mossy zinc
But on Beowulf, you'd want to prioritize Snow Burst + Ravenous Will over Smoldering Air, but either one would be very effective.
mossy zinc
quick question since it seems this chat is active, how are people getting the fa...
They can also cost Ambrosia etc. But yes.
kindred panther
Is Bad Influence as good as it sounds? 3 or more enemies with poison seems like it won't happen too often, and if it does, the boon will kick in and you'll kill one of them so fast that it will turn back off, right? But... 94% extra damage, jeez.
mossy zinc
They're endgame cosmetics.
bright forum
sick, ty!
mossy zinc
Bad Influence can be broken or do very little depending on your build.
@bright forum very expensive, by the way.
bright forum
<@221066052635721728> very expensive, by the way.
even more reason to keep playing the game
gaunt fiber
Wish I could do something with my gems
mossy zinc
You can give them to me. How bout dat?
kindred panther
It seems like Positive Outlook, especially if you can find a purple one, would be one of the best high-heat boons you can get, right? Cuz you're below 40% health for the majority of your run anyway, that's like a straight 20% damage reduction
gaunt fiber
You can give them to me. How bout dat? <:squirtnya:472124054644457472>
Deal
There are better DR options
Like weak is 30% base and the boons providing it have an amazing base damage
You can also add broken resolve on top of it
You also have hyper sprint, also 30% DR and providing both offensive and defensive mobility
And positive outlook is garbage unless epic
kindred panther
um... what does DR stand for? lol
hoary pasture
Damage reduction
kindred panther
oh damage reduction
hyper sprint + special delivery or whatever it's called... that's always really good
bright forum
oh i just got them and i didnt have to do the epilogue
bright forum
<@221066052635721728> very expensive, by the way.
you really weren't lying about this...
gaunt fiber
hyper sprint + special delivery or whatever it's called... that's always really ...
Rush delivery yeah. It's highroll but amazing
kindred panther
Seems like Bad Influence would only be good if you also had Peer Pressure
kindred panther
Rush delivery yeah. It's highroll but amazing
High roll?
hearty onyx
You need two specific Hermes boons
gaunt fiber
It means that going for that specific combo is a gamble because the odds are not in your favor but the result is amazing
kindred panther
Oh okay gotcha
hearty onyx
And Rush delivery is better the higher the rarity
kindred panther
If you end up in the Elysium friend room, which do you take, attack or SD health?
hoary pasture
Inb4 you get 5 sacked
honest kernel
ye thats what I meant :p
honest kernel
@mossy zinc do you by chance stll have the image you used of aphrodite for your thumbnails? I cant find a good png for my own
honest kernel
already got one pic nvm
unique zephyr
Hey everyone. I have been able to do 32 heat with all the weapons except for th...
Maybe replace damage control with Hard Labor? You have a shield so hard labor is less impact than damage control both on timer and the difficulty of the Hades fight
kindred panther
good point. how do you reset the opening boon rarity/type without letting yourself die? If I do Give Up it just stays the same...
unique zephyr
Nyaanyaa’s pact works well but you did say you were uncomfortable with FO2
kindred panther
getting the right boon right out of the gate can really make or break my runs
unique zephyr
I found Beo the fastest shield aspect but it hates CF. My pact for Beo was HL1 LC4 EM3 MM BP2 UC FO2 TD3. This does require getting used to FO2 but it’s worth it imo to avoid CF
FO2 becomes more manageable the more reps you put in and makes making pacts so much easier
bright mango
good point. how do you reset the opening boon rarity/type without letting yours...
You have to die
mossy zinc
Nyaaana
. . .
quartz mantle
You can do give up and use a different weapon/keepsake and that'll change your seed around
but yea dying is the best way to reset
solemn pulsar
dying is the only way to change the seed
switching weapons/keepsakes maintains the same seed
unique zephyr
> Nyaaana
. . .
I just woke up, I’ll correct it
Sorry!
I corrected it now, I can’t copy and paste on mobile, sorry about that
mossy zinc
Nyaaanya
. . .
hoary pasture
lol
mossy zinc
It is.
unique zephyr
Ok! Sorry I got it wrong twice, it was unintentional
mossy zinc
<@!311477984886521856> do you by chance stll have the image you used of aphrodi...
It's from the Supergiant Games website. I can send it later when I get on my computer.
honest kernel
its okay I already got one!
mossy zinc
Ok! Sorry I got it wrong twice, it was unintentional
It better be. 
unique zephyr
I don’t like getting peoples’ names wrong, yeah. On the topic of heat, I’ve been curious what the most tortuous way to get 8 and 16 heat are
Like the worst pacts for those statues. It probably involves routine inspection
icy acorn
naanaa
hoary pasture
RI4 AP2 FO1 is 16 isnt it
bright mango
^
mossy zinc
Right.
unique zephyr
RI4 AP2 FO1 is 16 isnt it
It is, I think you’ve found the worst 16 heat pact
I thought I would hate tight deadline but I find it actually fun now
I’m glad TD3 gives 6 heat total
bright mango
TD3 bad
unique zephyr
TD2 good though
hoary pasture
I think I saw ohokwy talking about it lol, he made it as challenge for Astaos
unique zephyr
I never fail TD2 (doesn’t affect room decisions for me either) and it’s 3 heat
dire steppe
surprised there isn’t a keepsake restricting heat
dire steppe
like -1 region with keepsake per level
celest grail
nah that would be such a hard heat
unique zephyr
All the high heat players would cry. I thought you were taking about a new keepsake not a heat factor, makes more sense now.
It would be an interesting heat though same for no companions
Or reducing companion uses
solemn pulsar
there's a maxed out hell mode save available for download on speedrun.com
icy acorn
but still, max is technically 2^6 still
solemn pulsar
just 2^6 - 1
there are 64 heat values you can have in non hell mode
so it still fits
icy acorn
yeah i guess
quartz mantle
Since it looks like nobody has answered yet, you probably have file extensions s...
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459479648603078658/827579496042725376/unknown.png idk if this is what you're talking about but I don't see anything like that
frail compass
The view tab at the top of Explorer
quartz mantle
Thank you for teaching me how to read
frail compass
ashen garnet
I know it's not high-heat (could be somehow though), but I am trying boonless runs in order to vent from 50 frustration and git gud.
So I was wondering if there was some establishd rules about it ? I know that to get 100% Olympian free you should not have any boon for at the last boss, but idk about the rest (Chaos, Summons, Keepsakes...)
bright mango
I unbind whatever boon I get
hoary pasture
I think Chaos boons are okay to take if you're going just for the title
But yes, whatever boon you get must not be used and should be sold whenever you have a chance to do so
ashen garnet
I unbind whatever boon I get
I did this, but ended up 5sacked having only the attack against Dad (not a single pool of purging was found that day)
mossy zinc
I know it's not high-heat (could be somehow though), but I am trying boonless ru...
Boonless rules for the high heat leaderboard are that you may have any number of boons, but you may not benefit from them in your run. Selling boons is permitted. Leaderboard starts at 32, though.
For the 100% Olympian-Free run clear message, you may benefit from boons as much as you like in your run, but on the victory screen, you may not have any boons that are purgeable.
That means boons you can't purge, like Chaos boons, are allowed.
ashen garnet
Thank you so much for the details 
bronze viper
The real flex is getting Ambiguity bonus on boonless runs
bright mango
Does ambiguity bonus do anything?
mossy zinc
Does ambiguity bonus do anything?
No.
bright mango
makes sense
unique zephyr
i like that heat caps off at 64
I also like the elegance of the skelly statue numbers
8, 16, 32
bright mango
ashen garnet
32 heat fists boonless is no joke. Gotta work on these iframes for Dad 
bright mango
10/10 advice
mossy zinc
Demeter Aspect with Shackle should do quite alright.
icy acorn
rip
bright mango
I played the asterius fight really badly
solar maple
Which aspect killed it?
bright mango
Poseidon
Lol
I’ll try again tomorrow
Thankfully nemesis and zag were extremely easy
mossy zinc
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
icy acorn
i reached chamber 11 with heat 63 yey
unique zephyr
Tried EM4 at 32, died at the beginning of phase 2
I feel like I'll get it sometime
Having Serrated Point did not help
ember bronze
For very high heat players—where do you rank Personal Liability?
Like, at what point, if you could easily choose, does it start being worth 1 heat to add it to your build?
patent isle
what level of difficulty would yall rank the first run at heatwise
because i feel it's more than just no mirror
it's also no companion, no aspect upgrades etc
ember bronze
No chaos, no call
icy acorn
ember bronze
I’ve tried it little but, gut, it’s hard to learn even if you’re comfortable playing 32s
shy plinth
But as a thought experiment, if it were available as 1 point, where do you think it would make sense to fold it into pacts
I bet it would be taken before RI1
mossy zinc
If PL was an option like any other, I'd always have it on.
quartz mantle
The worst part about PL comes with the forced CP1
But on it's own I'd probably start taking it after like TD and EM
it's pretty cake on it's own
gaunt fiber
PL is cheat
patent isle
I’ve tried it little but, gut, it’s hard to learn even if you’re comfortable pla...
this makes me feel better about myself 
solar maple
after some effort, I am very close to winning first run
I have several 50+ heat clears
you're fine :p
mossy zinc
Pretty sure there are several players with first run wins and no 50+.
mossy zinc
You're dealing with different problems.
solar maple
yes they are different skills
just saying that it is very challenging even for people with quite a bit of experience
patent isle
i did a no boon and no darkness run for a break from heat and they were free bc i was going from FO2 to FO0
i thought the case would be the same for a first run and uh lol nope
solar maple
so don't be too down on yourself
patent isle
ty
perhaps i go back to working up heat
i was practicing LC4 and FO2 a lot on diff weapons and that was fun
solar maple
if you want to do fresh file, I would recommend starting out with 4th run, which lets you get hermes and hammers, and if you farm a bit of darkness an extra dash and maybe a DD
which is much more doable
patent isle
if you want to do fresh file, I would recommend starting out with 4th run, which...
ty! i think ill do that
ill prob skip out o n darkness but being able to get calls, hermes, hammers
gaunt fiber
I have an idea
ashen garnet
Fresh file first run seems nice but only if you are a great sword player
quartz mantle
FO2 stonks tho
gaunt fiber
I mean it works
quartz mantle
TD to get rid of survial rooms and do rta
quartz mantle
Exactly
solar maple
3rd/4th run is faster than 2nd I think
quartz mantle
Think about the time loss from survival rooms
gaunt fiber
Hell mode fresh file second run FO2 TD3 you say?
solar maple
3rd is hammer start
mossy zinc
Boonless without Shackle works. That doesn't mean it's a good idea.
quartz mantle
yea guaranteed hammer start is pretty nuts tho
ember bronze
The PI question was sort of like, yeah, when it is worth worrying about Hell Mode