h1-high-heat-strategies

[mossy zinc]

Cloners and Saviors have higher difficulty rating. Those are ideal.

Savior can sometimes waste time, but it probably evens out if your builds are good.

Which they should be at 32.

[solemn pulsar]

oooh I didn't know BP increased difficulty rating

[mossy zinc]

Only Cloner and Savior.

[solemn pulsar]

interesting

[eager vortex]

well my 5 sack fails were way before I did my sub10 runs

td3 is 20 mins total right so yea it's pretty doable I guess

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah

Just get health for overtime if you need

[mossy zinc]

5x for Cloners and 1.2x for Saviors.

[true fable]

5X?????

wtf

[mossy zinc]

Cloner Wringer chambers are silly fast if you don't get grabbed like an idiot.

And you will feel like an idiot if you get grabbed.

[gaunt fiber]

Cloner louts :)

[eager vortex]

[solemn pulsar]

if an elite FO2 wringer exists

it will grab me

like an idiot

[gaunt fiber]

Like a perdable bird

[mossy zinc]

Cloner Louts can be best, but they can also take a bit longer than Wringers or Thugs because they move around so much lol.

[gaunt fiber]

They're really good

But can be dangerous

Thugs are not worth enough points in comparison though

But at least you don't have to make any efforts to kill them

[mossy zinc]

Elite Thugs have the second highest difficulty rating in Tartarus.

[gaunt fiber]

oh really

Does not feel like in chamber 12

I mean it's pretty good but hm

Oh because when they're not elite it's sad?

[mossy zinc]

Thugs have very low difficulty ratings, but elites are high.

[unique zephyr]

What has the highest?

[gaunt fiber]

yeah

[mossy zinc]

Elite Louts.

[gaunt fiber]

I figured so

Pests are so good

high difficulty rating for no reason

[mossy zinc]

Depending on your damage, Cloner Brimstones are probably the best chambers you can get in terms of how much damage you actually need to deal to clear the chamber.

[gaunt fiber]

It's a really good enemy yeah

[halcyon flame]

clones are horrid but if you can good aoe then they're not a problem since they literally die in 2 hits

[eager vortex]

worst room in tartarus is the sneak imo

with mm

[unique zephyr]

Cloner and savior

[halcyon flame]

sneak is easy if you can time your meg right

[unique zephyr]

Sneak can be killed with summons at least

[gaunt fiber]

Sometimes clones survive and you have to kill them

pretty sure it's a bug

[halcyon flame]

yeah it has to be

[mossy zinc]

Oh yeah. Elite Skullomats are the highest, actually. Forgot about those lol.

[eager vortex]

but don't you also prefer seeing doomstone

instead of sneak

[gaunt fiber]

Doomstone allows me to save a summon

[mossy zinc]

MM Doomstone can waste more time than MM Sneak.

[gaunt fiber]

Sneak is a 3 seconds fight

[halcyon flame]

i should probably watch that one meg guide

[eager vortex]

if you miss sneak with summon

[gaunt fiber]

Just meg right after the teleportation for the sneak

[eager vortex]

and don't have something like hestia

you can waste a minute in there lol

[honest kernel]

doomstone longer than sneak if you hit summon indeed

[gaunt fiber]

yeah but the meg is really consistent

[solemn pulsar]

They don’t appear in Tartarus

[halcyon flame]

the timing for meg in the sneak fight is pretty easy

so yeah it's consistent

[gaunt fiber]

Skullomats are worth a ton of points in Tart anyway

[solemn pulsar]

Yeh

[mossy zinc]

Skullomat is just 10 points. Same as a Thug.

[shy gulch]

wait what

[true fable]

elite skullomats are quite good

that doesnt make any sense nyaanyaa

[shy gulch]

that makes zero sense

[mossy zinc]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1M8uSUx4vW6TZHHb8z7SbGL4uWxcME7aB3LAIikfpmoM/edit?usp=sharing

[true fable]

you can get some absurd skullomat chambers

i believe you

just doesnt make any sense

there has to be something else in play

[gaunt fiber]

Hmm

[true fable]

because you can get 4 skullomats in c12

and thats it

[gaunt fiber]

My skullomats rooms are super fast

[mossy zinc]

I suspect they're hardcoded to spawn with a certain number of Numbskulls? Something like that.

[true fable]

probably

[mossy zinc]

Getting nothing but Witches makes me wanna reset sometimes lol.

[gaunt fiber]

yeah it's tilting

[eager vortex]

why do the witches keep getting easier with each region tho

[dense gale]

Are the enemies that spawn independent per room or is there a "theme" for a biome?

Sometimes I feel like I see the same enemy type several rooms in a row but I'm not sure if that's just randomness.

[gaunt fiber]

their difficulty value goes stonks

[icy acorn]

probably just rng

[mossy zinc]

It's just doing 2-3 laps one-shotting Witches. Can't kite them to the exit to group them up or anything.

And there are just so many of them.

[gaunt fiber]

Spreader and Splitters are like super good enemies

Especially elite splitters

[mossy zinc]

Elite Flamewheels are just about the best you can get for speed. I think I had 2 or 3 chambers that had at least some of them on my Zag Shield run today lol.

[solemn pulsar]

elite splitters are the best by far

there's an elysium chamber 32 that's just like 2 waves of 2 of them

elysium trials with them take like 10 seconds

[eager vortex]

I like the big chariots in elysium

they seem to have high difficulty rating and they are easy to kill

big targets

and their charge is not ridiculous like asterius charge

[gaunt fiber]

huh

Speeders are like

"ok I hope there's some place I can hide"

[mossy zinc]

Speeder or Slugger Chariots have ended many promising high heat runs.

[gaunt fiber]

Their damage is high even without slugger yeah

[honest kernel]

BP2 chariots are kindof horrfying

[eager vortex]

would you rather fight the bp2 shield dudes

or the spear dudes

that can reach you from the other side of the map

[solemn pulsar]

slugger hl5 chariot = >70 damage

[eager vortex]

or the bp2 bow dudes

damn I pretty much hate all of those I think

I like chariots and witches in ely

also the pink balls

you guys are using their proper names and I am like "pink balls, shield dudes"

[honest kernel]

honestly

[gaunt fiber]

You just learn their name with Zag

"Splitters!"

[honest kernel]

I rather have bp2 warriors than the chariots

[gaunt fiber]

"Greatshields!"

[honest kernel]

maybe not bow bc some combinations turn them into machineguns

[eager vortex]

20 damage with each arrow on hl5

[gaunt fiber]

40 on slugger :')

[eager vortex]

yes

you can die real fast if you stand in place

[gaunt fiber]

even if you don't

Really depends on the room layout

[mossy zinc]

Strongbows are awful with Bruiser.

[eager vortex]

and they seem to run around so much they are hard to hit too

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah... They killed my most promising Chiron 50 attempt in chamber 34

[mossy zinc]

Now, Bruiser Snakestones in Nighty Night, though.

I'll take an Elysium full of Chariots over one chamber of Nighty Night Bruiser Snakestones.

[eager vortex]

what is nighty night

em4 ?

nvm

[gaunt fiber]

An update

[eager vortex]

I'm too new

to know those terms

[gaunt fiber]

40 years ago iirc

[eager vortex]

so there are enemies that they added in

then removed cuz they were op

[gaunt fiber]

Oh no Snakestones still exist

[eager vortex]

are they the green stones in styx

if so they are not so bad

[gaunt fiber]

Yup

They can be dangerous still

[mossy zinc]

They didn't change Snakestones. They nerfed Bruiser.

Bruiser was broken.

And Bruiser Snakestones were especially broken.

[eager vortex]

have you tried standing in place and letting them hit you while you have frozen touch

[gaunt fiber]

still is tbh

[eager vortex]

fun

[mossy zinc]

Nah, Bruiser is fine. Annoying for speed, though.

[gaunt fiber]

for speed yeah

[mossy zinc]

But not particularly more difficult than other perks.

[eager vortex]

seeker and slugger

seem to be pretty bad

[gaunt fiber]

Slugger can be irrelevant given the enemy type

[eager vortex]

and linker seem to be kinda irrelevant

[solemn pulsar]

slugger voidstones

[mossy zinc]

Linker is awful for melee.

[gaunt fiber]

Linker with jumping enemies :)

[mossy zinc]

Hardest chambers to no-hit with melee are linker chambers.

[eager vortex]

still tho compared to others

what is puller btw I prolly encountered it a lot

but didn't notice it doing anything

[gaunt fiber]

Slows you down

[icy acorn]

circle around enemy that you can't escape by walking, it pulls you in

you can dash out

purple aura around enemies, very noticeable

[eager vortex]

can't believe I spent so many hours in the game and don't know spesifics like this

never really bothered to check

[gaunt fiber]

I'd say it's the easiest BP

[eager vortex]

learning now

[unreal bison]

im going for my first 32 attempt, whats a good keepsake loadout?

[eager vortex]

sec I'll show you mine

[gaunt fiber]

usually you go god > god > acorn/tooth

[mossy zinc]

You kinda don't have to learn mechanics and builds until high heat or if you want to speedrun.

[eager vortex]

oh he asked for keepsake not heat setup nvm

[gaunt fiber]

you can take acorn before if you want, or even tooth

If you have the gods you want

[unreal bison]

ok i see thanks!

[gaunt fiber]

Take tooth if you're scared to die in normal encounters

[unique zephyr]

Died to Tight Deadline vs the Heroes 😦

[gaunt fiber]

Acorn has an amazing value for bosses, especially dad

[eager vortex]

I usually picked collar for styx but then I realized acorn is much more efficient

for high heat

[mossy zinc]

I'd take Lucky Tooth for Elysium and Acorn for Hades especially if you're not doing EM3.

[eager vortex]

td3 sword ?

[mossy zinc]

Elysium boss fight without EM is free. Lucky Tooth just lets you clear rooms a lot faster because you have a safeguard.

Like, you can go faster with something like Skull Earring, of course. But it's just nice to know you don't need to play super scared because you're down to 20 HP and there are Flame Wheels everywhere.

[unique zephyr]

Yup

[mossy zinc]

And if you don't get Touch of Styx Dark from Patroclus, you can let Theseus or Asterius take your Lucky Tooth just before you kill them, so you'll enter the Temple of Styx with 100 HP instead of like 50 or something.

[unique zephyr]

Would putting in extra points in hard labor be worth going from EM3 to EM2

[mossy zinc]

Sure.

[gaunt fiber]

yeah definitely

But you made it to dad

so you can do it

[eager vortex]

does em3 increase asterius hp ?

or are the healths same

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, he gets more HP.

So does Theseus.

[gaunt fiber]

The wiki says Theseus goes from 9000 to 12 000

But nothing for Asterius

[eager vortex]

so that's why ...

damn

I am not taking cp

[gaunt fiber]

CP2 EM3 is something indeed

[eager vortex]

I was wondering why heat 50 asterius was much harder than 40

found the answer lol I am using cp2

[solemn pulsar]

asterius HP does not change in EM3

yeah it's the CP

[gaunt fiber]

So yeah that's what I thought

14k base is enough thank you very much

[eager vortex]

cuz I usually kill them before they can kill me

with good dps

it took forever

earlier

[gaunt fiber]

I remember once

I had a 4min+ fight with them

[mossy zinc]

Normal Asterius has 14000 HP. EM Asterius has 16000 HP.

[gaunt fiber]

I timed out vs naked Theseus :')

[gaunt fiber]

wiki pls sigh

[mossy zinc]

You can update the wiki.

[gaunt fiber]

But I have no source

[mossy zinc]

Why complain when you're as responsible as everybody else.

m your source.

[gaunt fiber]

I mean

that's enough for me

[mossy zinc]

I literally have EnemyData.lua open lol.

[gaunt fiber]

but not for everyone lol

[eager vortex]

so 16k hp plus cp2

I dealt with this bs huh

nice

with hl5

I had no idea em increases boss hps

is it only for that fight ?

what about lernie and furies

[gaunt fiber]

You could check Nyaanyaa the living wiki

[eager vortex]

yes I'm asking her actually

cuz she has something open

enemydata.lua

yes

[gaunt fiber]

I don't think they have more hp

[eager vortex]

still, I think js is preferable over cp

[gaunt fiber]

Oh yeah of course

[mossy zinc]

EM increases the Furies' HP, yes.

[eager vortex]

come on

how many ppl knew that

[gaunt fiber]

CP can really mess up with hp thresholds

[eager vortex]

prolly not many

[gaunt fiber]

It's hard to realize

Like when was the last time you were not running at least EM1

[mossy zinc]

Lernie and EM Lernie have the same HP.

[eager vortex]

been some time

last time was when I was doing sub10 runs

wait no

I used em2 during that

[mossy zinc]

Meg has the least HP, then Alecto, and Tisiphone has the most.

[eager vortex]

okay idk anymore

thanks nyaanyaa

so not only the sidekicks are spamming aoe attacks

the main fury's hp is also higher

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, but not very meaningfully higher.

You can often phase them in the same number of hits.

[honest kernel]

I never knew they had diff hp values

[bright mango]

^

[unique zephyr]

I still suck so much at sword

Not only am I too slow I also get hit a lot

I die to furies and Lernie a LOT

Does the Meg speedrunning guide apply somewhat to Antos, too in terms of when to do it

I'll watch Astaos sword playthrough again, who is really good at pos sword (as good as Astaos is at GY)?

[bright mango]

@gaunt fiber Are you imperdabling at poseidon sword?

[mossy zinc]

Not really.

[unique zephyr]

I feel worse at the game at high heat, it is more fun though

[mossy zinc]

Most of my and Tailesque's older high heat runs use Antos.

You don't use Antos for Witches or Inferno-Bombers MM.

[bright mango]

^^^

[mossy zinc]

If you get Doomstone, you can just summon immediately and dash to the exit.

[unique zephyr]

I want to do 40 heat more regularly but 32 is still hard for me

[mossy zinc]

If you get Wretched Sneak, you wait for the first teleport and just summon immediately for the kill.

If you want to get better at 40 Heat, (1) do 45+ Heat, and (2) practice all the boss fights with HL5 FO2 CP2.

[unique zephyr]

@gaunt fiber did you do the pos sword 32 for me yesterday or day before? I don’t know which of your videos it is

[bright mango]

and do em4

[unique zephyr]

I’ve kept FO2 on and like I’m better at it than before but still die a lot

FO2 feels fast still but at least normal speed feels slow now

Is it normal to feel worse at the game the higher heat you go? Sorry I’m complaining

[shy gulch]

well personally the more i play the more i am certain that i am garbanzo beans at this game

imagine being good

[wintry berry]

I feel neither excellent nor garbage

[gaunt fiber]

Lemme check

because yesterday is a vague notion

[shy gulch]

mood

[mossy zinc]

Imagine wanting to watch a 15:28 run when you could watch a 9:31 WR smh.

[gaunt fiber]

15:28?

[mossy zinc]

That's your Poseidon time.

[gaunt fiber]

Happy to learn that

lmao

[unique zephyr]

Oh right you did do that, I’ll find it in self promotion (that’s for 32 right)

[shy gulch]

isnt your run 8:3x or something nyaanyaa

not 9:3x

[mossy zinc]

Yes, I pinged you when I posted it.

That was Zag Shield.

[shy gulch]

oh you meant your own poseidon sword run?

[mossy zinc]

Yeah.

[shy gulch]

ah gotcha

[gaunt fiber]

I shared my poseidon run?

[mossy zinc]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/965045632?t=3h0m27s

It's here.

[gaunt fiber]

well thank you very much

[mossy zinc]

I'll watch Astaos sword playthrough again, who is really good at pos sword (as good as Astaos is at GY)?
I think @unique zephyr dissed your Guan Yu skills.

[gaunt fiber]

[bright mango]

AHAHAH

GET REKT

[gaunt fiber]

that hurts

[unique zephyr]

No that wasn’t the intent

I meant who is Poseidon master

[gaunt fiber]

only 450 hours on Guan Yu smh

[bright mango]

nyaanyaa just double wrecked

[unique zephyr]

Since you are gy master

[shy gulch]

astaos do you actually have 450 hours in GY

[gaunt fiber]

Well prolly

[shy gulch]

lord

[bright mango]

good lord

[shy gulch]

salute to you, soldier

[gaunt fiber]

Since I'm 600 hours in

[bright mango]

1300+ GY attempts

Sounds about right

[unique zephyr]

I only have like 330 attempts total

[mossy zinc]

That doesn't say Astaos. https://imgur.com/a/msXLgCp

[gaunt fiber]

I appreciate the effort

[bright mango]

burn

get absolutely burned

[unique zephyr]

How is retrash so good at every weapon and at EM4

[bright mango]

Practice

[mossy zinc]

That's not a burn lol.

[gaunt fiber]

He's excellent at EM4

[bright mango]

Well its a passive burn

[mossy zinc]

What Retrash does doesn't devalue what Astaos does.

[bright mango]

He says he took 200+ hours to learn em4 + fo2

He just never took it off

[gaunt fiber]

I wonder if he resets a lot

or just casually gets charged skewer on AP2

[mossy zinc]

@north dove do you?

[north dove]

I don't reset for skewer no

[gaunt fiber]

I don't think I'll ever reset for charged skewer on AP2

[mossy zinc]

Maybe he just clears every time but only uploads the Charged Skewer wins to not hurt our feelings with Triple Jab Tempest Strike wins.

[gaunt fiber]

But I prolly will anyway at some point

[mossy zinc]

Attack only.

[mossy zinc]

I mean seeing all those runs and your clear rate, you're just resetting with more effort.

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah lol

Clear rate always has been bad though

even without resets

[mossy zinc]

Zag Fists had been at #1 usage rate for me ever since they added Malphon, but resetting for Charged Skewer speedruns moved that up to #1 now lol.

[gaunt fiber]

Nice!

[mossy zinc]

m feeling conflicted about it.

[gaunt fiber]

It's alright

you're just a Guan Yu main

Look my second most played is Chiron

it does not make any sense

Nyaanyaa Mewmew | Hardcore Guan Yu Main

[mossy zinc]

lol I've been maining both Guan Yu since that came out and Malphon since Malphon came out. So it's fine.

I've been playing Demeter Aspect way more than Zag Fists, anyway.

[gaunt fiber]

I feel like fists special hammers were made with Demeter in mind

The basic special is so sad compared to an explosive charged dash upper

[mossy zinc]

Normal Uppercut is a very situational tool, which is fine.

Dash-Upper on Zag Fists is still great.

[gaunt fiber]

but the explosion

[mossy zinc]

Explosive Upper is a good pick on Zag Fists.

[gaunt fiber]

It's just less boom

[north dove]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/771815559410876446/826244594995822642/unknown.png?width=1202&height=676 when you miss 75% of your shots but the game still gives you the win

I honestly might try to go for 57 heat

[bright mango]

good lord

Didn't even lose a DD

[mossy zinc]

lol Ricochet is just oh you missed your shot, let me fix that for you.

Congratulations!

[gaunt fiber]

why does everyone get to go pew pew gaming

Lmao Retrash I just noticed the anvil

What kind of RNG is it

[bright mango]

That's like a perfect hammer setup

[gaunt fiber]

Can't wait for Zagius aotw though

[bright mango]

retrash going to pull out a 60 on that

[gaunt fiber]

"kinda carried by rng on this 60 ngl"

[bronze viper]

top 5: 60, 45, 45, 40, 40

[gaunt fiber]

2 45 is bold

[bright mango]

why does 50 hestia feel so much easier now than when I last cleared it

[bronze viper]

You got better?

lol

[bright mango]

idk

its been two weeks

[bronze viper]

Doesn't take much time to get better, it just takes consistent play

[gaunt fiber]

two weeks can be a lot

if you do the right things

[bronze viper]

I didn't start learning Zeus shield until last week lmao

[bright mango]

last week was me just dying to em4 dad

[bronze viper]

Yeah basically

[bright mango]

Not really any practice

[bronze viper]

Pretty much just playing for any amount of time -> sleeping then playing again means you've gotten better

[gaunt fiber]

Oh god

glad you mention sleeping

[bronze viper]

Lol, it's kind of hard to get meaningfully better in one day. Your brain needs to encode stuff.

[gaunt fiber]

except if you watch your vods for a specific aspect

One day would be significant

[hearty onyx]

How hard is the transition from 32 to 40 heat?

I think I've finally gotten used to 32 so I want to aim higher

[solemn pulsar]

If you’re already running HL5, LC4, and DDs, not a big change

If you aren’t

Big change

[gaunt fiber]

It depends on the aspect too

For me it was tough

[solemn pulsar]

I’m making a safe assumption that they dont play guan yu

[gaunt fiber]

lol

[hearty onyx]

Well, Guan Yu was my first 32 heat spear clear

[gaunt fiber]

what a champ

[hearty onyx]

So I'll try it again at 40

[gaunt fiber]

Take a bit of everything but DC/RI/EM4

and CP

[solemn pulsar]

Goddang

I lost the bet

[bright mango]

I think the transition from 32 to 40 was a bit hard for me at first

[frail granite]

does anyone have some suggestions for fists

I'm not doing super high heat, only around 15

[bright mango]

ZAP

[mossy zinc]

#h1-builds-and-combat message

Here you go.

[mossy zinc]

That build sucks.

[dire steppe]

no u

[north dove]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/826283905270677505/unknown.png well that didn't take long

[mossy zinc]

Congratulations! Nice one!

[north dove]

Thanks! 😄

[mossy zinc]

Different League, indeed. 💕

@gaunt fiber can you imagine a time when Guan Yu's spin could pass right though any obstacle, and the Special did 50 base damage?

[north dove]

wait crap, I should have done 56 to barrel roll Tailesque 😢

[mossy zinc]

Oh no.

[unique zephyr]

You know I’ve seen people suggest I use cursed slash when I mentioned my sword troubles and say their first clear was with it

Too bad it’s not very good at high heat lol

It doesn’t even work on dash strikes does it?

[shy gulch]

nope

[honest kernel]

I actually find it ok on Arthur

but on other swords ? lol nope

[shy plinth]

If you get flurry slash first??

Still probs not but

[mossy zinc]

Cursed Slash at 32 is perfectly fine.

I mean I wouldn't take it because it doesn't give me DPS, but it works.

[honest kernel]

The issue with that is that you stand there, doing the regular attack

[shy plinth]

Ah yes

[honest kernel]

That leaves you wide-open to retaliation

[shy plinth]

That is unfortunate

I guess with arthur you can do dragging attacks

[honest kernel]

You also have just enough range to be able to tip-toe attacks

[north dove]

cursed slash is better without flurry imo

I still maintain that flurry slash is the worst hammer in the game

[honest kernel]

Flurry Slash forces you into a 2-attack combo

[shy plinth]

I feel confident that you are the leading base sword expert in the game too

[honest kernel]

And that's the issue

[shy plinth]

Aha

[honest kernel]

That's commital

[shy plinth]

Yeah I don't like doing that

[honest kernel]

It's not even a significant damage boost like Flurry Jab or Flurry Shot

[shy plinth]

Flurry jab is also just kind of nuts

Better range and stun-locking and better damage etc

[honest kernel]

Sword basic attack kinda sucks, doesn't it

[mossy zinc]

Flurry Slash + Piercing Wave is the way to go.

[north dove]

I don't dislike the basic combo as long as you use special instead of the stab

[mossy zinc]

Let me hold me hold Attack with Flurry Slash to charge a spin.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fe/24/2d/fe242d0197e2e0322068fe5ab4999624.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-10-2015/XR5ol6.gif

Gimme.

[north dove]

yes

[steel star]

any good bow builds for 14 Heat? im stuck 😦

[shy plinth]

What's your pact? Every bow aspect is capable of winning up to and beyond 32

[steel star]

i thought i typed it what pact shud i focus on and not try to add

i dont have great knowledge of the game that is boon names and pact names

[unique zephyr]

Avoid approval process and routine inspection

Tight deadline 1 and 2 are not as scary as they seem

[steel star]

i do the more summons increased health middle management em2 7 min timer and the blue heart thing that prevents them to take 1st hit

[unique zephyr]

Jury summons is way harder than it sounds

[steel star]

i did routine inspection and not approval

[unique zephyr]

Even the first level hurts badly

[steel star]

i thought its easy but it kills me in elysium

[mossy zinc]

Maybe do EM2 FO2 TD3, and then just 1 point in whatever.

[unique zephyr]

So here’s what I did at 16: Extreme Measures 3 (I wear acorn to EM3 and it is a hard fight but worth learning), Middle Management, Tight Deadline 2, Benefits Package 1, Underworld Customs, and one point wherever, I did jury summons but lasting consequences is probably better

FO2 and TD3 are really hard imo

I wasn’t ready for those at 16

[steel star]

ohhk ty ill try now

[mossy zinc]

That's just an any heat speedrun. A lot of people learn that very quickly with a little guidance.

Didn't take you very long, either.

[unique zephyr]

FO2 takes a fair bit of relearning the game and many enemies that you’re used to now become threatening again

[honest kernel]

fo2 is scary

I tried it and got owned

I'm gonna try em4 later, without any other modifiers, see how I go

[steel star]

EM is scary for me i cant bear theseus going wild 😔

[hearty onyx]

My first 16 heat run was TD3 and EM4

[mossy zinc]

Anyway, 16 Heat is just a matter of practice and learning more about your aspect of choice.

[honest kernel]

td3 is too much for me

[mossy zinc]

Can't give you a bow build because I don't know what bow you like to play.

[honest kernel]

I can handle 1 and 2 tho

[halcyon flame]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/826290730615439360/Hades_196.png

[steel star]

i use chiron and want to try out rama

[halcyon flame]

this run was horrifically scuffed

[mossy zinc]

But there's a newbie build guide for the base weapons pinned in #h1-for-new-players.

[honest kernel]

honestly think chiron is best

[mossy zinc]

A good starting point.

Chiron is easy to play, but it's not the best.

[steel star]

chiron was my first clear

[halcyon flame]

i'm torn between wanting to do 32 heat all aspects or not

[honest kernel]

might not be great for croud control but it has huge single target dps

Single Target DPS for Chiron is ok

But Hera and Rama do it better

my first clear was zag sword

Even Zag can do better with the right hammers

[shy gulch]

yeah i ws gonna say

even zag bow can outdo it

[mossy zinc]

Rama and Hera have way better single-target DPS and AOE, yeah.

[shy gulch]

but it takes a bit more than rama or hera

[honest kernel]

hmm ok

idk, you guys know way more than me

[mossy zinc]

Chiron is the safest. It's the most sniper-y bow, in a sense.

[honest kernel]

I trust what you say

it's also very easy to use

imo

[mossy zinc]

Depends on what you're trying to achieve with it, but yeah, it's easy to pick up and get results with when you're just trying to clear content.

[honest kernel]

for sure

[mossy zinc]

Come to think of it.

@steel star Haelian has some guides that you might wanna look at. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmj6-vxquxwS0UXHEpzhS8ExlDs3Z-yku

[unique zephyr]

I do disagree with Haelian’s heat guide though

[mossy zinc]

I think he can live with that.

[bronze viper]

I haven't watched it, what about it do you disagree with?

[unique zephyr]

Lemme see it again real quick

[bronze viper]

It's pretty much impossible to completely agree with someone's heat recommendations from 32- to be fair lol. There's a lot of preference in mind.

[unique zephyr]

I also more so meant for low heat

[mossy zinc]

I guess that means Haelian disagrees with your Heat non-guide.

[unique zephyr]

Yup

[mossy zinc]

I don't agree with him on everything, but you can't argue with results.

It works for him.

[unique zephyr]

Yeah, I just feel like FO1 too early will be brutal for new players

TD2 early is good

[bronze viper]

He does a great job of explaining his reasoning and process most of the time too, so at least it's a good practice to figure out why he likes the pacts he does

[unique zephyr]

^ that is true

It’s just personal disagreement my bad, it is a great video

[mossy zinc]

You learned to handle FO2 very quickly, you just started taking it very late.

[unique zephyr]

I still find FO2 very fast

A lot of deaths to furies

[bronze viper]

Yeah I was recommended way back when to take it basically immediately and my teeth got kicked in so hard, but it didn't take very long to start getting used to it

For the most part. EM3 and Dad were bigger hurdles with FO2

[unique zephyr]

Starting FO early is good come to think of it

I wish I started FO1 and FO2 earlier

So at least FO1 at 16 is good to get used to

[bronze viper]

Fwiw I'm changing my recommendation for people who show sincere interest in doing 40+ -> 50+ heat. Do EM4. Do EM4 on everything.

You just need the reps

[unique zephyr]

I think I’ll do 40 after 32 on sword

[bronze viper]

I'm so much more comfortable with EM4 since I've just been playing with it (and dying) consistently.

[unique zephyr]

I bet 40 heat pacts are less stinky with EM4 overall

I never tried EM4 with SD though

[mossy zinc]

But EM4 takes longer than no EM4.

And then how do you get 40 Heat speedrun WRs?

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/392290842196443139/589806096957308958/ezgif-5-02c601d99c69.gif

[bronze viper]

What I do with every aspect I intend to push heat to 50+ with is make a 40 heat EM4 save with RI0 AP0, and HL5, FO2, CP1. My general approach is to make a nut build with a couple of DDs, and Patty preferably. If I have a broken Call setup, like Rip Current or something, that's whatever. I'll play the superdad fight and aim to keep cutting away resources. Clear it with everything then see if you can clear it with -1 DD, -2 DD, or with no call.

In general, I avoid stuff like epic greatest reflexes or Hyper Delivery which will heavily skew your expected survivability or DPS

[mossy zinc]

Have you tried setting his max HP to 1 in EnemyData.lua?

[unique zephyr]

I’ll need to wait until my health gets better for me to have the mental concentration for EM4

[bronze viper]

Doesn't have to be 40 heat, I just so happen to enjoy playing in that range.

[unique zephyr]

It’s 5 or so mins of maximum concentration

For just EM4

[bronze viper]

Yeah, health comes first. It's a lot, and I have typically staunchly opposed doing EM4 until 50+, but by the time you get there, you have no experience with the fight and it's miserable lol. May as well get reps along the way.

[red basalt]

So would I be crazy for attempting EM4 with FO2 at 21 heat? (I’m on hell mode btw - so the other 5 heat is just the base hell mode reqs)

[shy plinth]

Have you done either of those before

[mossy zinc]

Wouldn't be the craziest thing attempted by anyone in this channel.

[shy gulch]

i mean why not try

it may not be the easiest way to clear 21 heat but do what u want

[red basalt]

I’ve basically been playing with FO2 on the whole time to get used to it as I slowly turn up the heat. As I went higher and higher I started working with EM1-4, and while 3 was a big challenge, 4 feels like..next to impossible lol

[shy plinth]

Yeah you're gonna die a lot

Not "crazy" to do but that combination is brutal

[red basalt]

Speaking of. Tips for EM3? I feel like I usually lose way too much health in that fight and stumble into EM4 with nothing lol

[shy plinth]

Practice a lot, kill the bull first, don't dash into asterius when he jumps

[mossy zinc]

Just dash at the last moment when he jumps at you.

[shy plinth]

Get used to double dashing when he jumps without pressing attack, you are invincible forever during empty dashes

[mossy zinc]

If you have Divine Dash, you'll deflect his slam and negate the shockwave.

And otherwise, you'll just get out safely.

[red basalt]

Hrm. I usually try dashing underneath him when he does his jump. Good to know I’ve been focusing the right target tho.

[mossy zinc]

To be honest, you'll want to focus on Theseus as much as possible, which often doesn't really work until Theseus is sitting still and talking to the crowd.

He'll function as an obstacle for Asterius, too.

And you'll be hitting both a lot when you go after Theseus.

The less time you spend in that fight, the less HP you'll lose.

Taking down both by focusing on Theseus achieves that.

If you tap up on your d-pad and immediately summon Meg, you'll hit both for 2.5k each. That speeds things up a lot.

At the start of the fight.

[red basalt]

Interesting. What about positioning? Should I be chasing Theseus around the room, or try to hit him from the center of the room?

Also I’m one of those masochists who still uses mouse+keyboard. Debating a controller tho.

[mossy zinc]

Well, on keyboard you just walk north a step, anyway.

Tbh it's easier if you just watch some runs from the high heat leaderboard for how they deal with the fight than explaining it. I just do so much of it intuitively now depending on aspect etc. lol.

Second pin in this channel.

[red basalt]

I see. That’s a lot to take in so I’ll have to take a look later tho. Tyvm for all of the good info.

[bronze viper]

Crazy? Nah, just go into it with correct expectations. You're not there to win, you're there to learn lol. For me I was able to get a really good bearing for his animations and patterns on shields, since you can hang really close to him without blowing up instantly.

It also helps to be familiar with the fight at FO0. Just so you at least know what's going to happen.

[solar maple]

I'm pretty sure I've just forgotten how to fight em4 LOL

and yeah em4 fo2 will definitely not be the easiest 21 heat pact, but it is good for learning and fun

[shy plinth]

I'd recommend just mixing it up with a diff pact that's a little easier to clear so you don't get frustrated

That's a significant challenge that def isn't necessary at that heat

But if you can learn EM4 backwards and forwards that's a big advantage

[mossy zinc]

Either direction is already good.

Sideways, too.

[shy plinth]

Yeah sideways is relevant

Also don't forget the z axis

Fight has a lot of depth

[mossy zinc]

And forward and backwards in time.

[halcyon flame]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/761220441049661442/826351161916915743/Hades_197.png

attempting 32 heat zag shield, going good so far

[spice lava]

still going good? 👀

[mossy zinc]

That's a decent time out of Tartarus.

[gaunt fiber]

I heard about these blessed times. Why would you even nerf Guan Yu lol, it doesn't make sense

[magic knoll]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/693805450675880027/826373809221009408/unknown.png

i am gonna die

the moment i go out

[gaunt fiber]

No, you'll lose 5 hp per second

[magic knoll]

i died 😔

[floral tundra]

Yo quick Q, got the game 2 days ago, what's the most broken OP build to get a first win with?

[magic knoll]

this is the wrong channel to ask that in lmao

[floral tundra]

Yeah yeah, but like, also i usually trust players from higher difficulties more than the general populace you know?

[waxen relic]

There's pins in the new player channel

[magic knoll]

yup

and that was made by a player from higher difficulties

so yea

[floral tundra]

Oh hey thx 😄 so it's trustworthy?

Laters yo

[gaunt fiber]

It's general guide lines

There are so many ways to have a broken build at low heat anyway, hard to think of one in particular

[spice lava]

It also depends of the used weapon, so the best way to beat the game is to find out your own solution more than an OP build 👀

There's no point if an OP build doesn't fit your playstyle

[honest kernel]

any build on low heat is viable

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/624635342116618243/826386093314146334/unknown.png

@mossy zinc I did it! (the the help of drunkness)

[celest grail]

why do you not have your aspects maxed

[solar maple]

teenager dem fists

[spice lava]

Why not 😏

[edgy arrow]

idk i think Tailesque started it

[celest grail]

LOL is this an actual meme

time to clear 40 heat with lvl 1 zag spear

[edgy arrow]

yeah it is

Tail did 50 heat with lvl 1 hestia

[gaunt fiber]

Lv1 zag spear wont matter lol

[edgy arrow]

^

yeah do lvl1 GY

[gaunt fiber]

at 50 hmmmmmmm

If I were a master of EM4

Like I'd keep thick skin

Could be possible

A bit of weak, some DR if possible

15 hp is pretty bad though

[true fable]

what is it without thick skin?

[gaunt fiber]

well 15 hp

[true fable]

ah ok

yeah

[gaunt fiber]

Like my jesus christ run required me to focus a minimum

I was avoiding health but still, a run takes time and it's really easy to make 2 mistakes in a room/boss

[honest kernel]

I dont have enough titan blood

[gaunt fiber]

kill skelly

[celest grail]

or use a maxed save

[honest kernel]

yeah im gonna use a maxed save as soon as I want to get the hellmode pact

[edgy arrow]

wait Astaos is actually considering this

i underestimated his power

[kindred panther]

I am trying to beat 32 heat on every type of weapon but man I am having such a hard time with it... so far all I've done is the fists. I should be able to clear the shield pretty soon but the bow... I cannot seem to get a decent run together at all with that.

Any tips on a 32 heat bow run?

[honest kernel]

which bow aspect

[kindred panther]

whichever

[hearty onyx]

There's always Rama

[honest kernel]

I mean I'd take the one you maxed out

[kindred panther]

it's totally different on high heat... why is rama good on 32

[honest kernel]

rama is the easiest prob yeah

[kindred panther]

I have every aspect maxed on every weapon

[honest kernel]

oh

[edgy arrow]

rama, chiron or hera could all honestly be easiest, depending on how you play

[hearty onyx]

Because it's very flexible

[hoary pasture]

Chiron Heartrend was very straight forward for me

[honest kernel]

rama lets you free up your pact because it goes fast despite js and dc

[kindred panther]

chiron is great for bosses so I do well with that but

[edgy arrow]

rama is the “best”, but not necessarily the easiest

[kindred panther]

any bow, my problem is the attack delay

[edgy arrow]

it’s definitely worth considering tho for sure

[kindred panther]

it's too slow

[hearty onyx]

I still don't like Chiron, and I doubt I ever will

[edgy arrow]

are you dash attacking?

[honest kernel]

you always want to dash strike

[edgy arrow]

^

[kindred panther]

not in particular no

[hearty onyx]

Dash strike will also make Rama slightly faster

[honest kernel]

theres your problem

[kindred panther]

okay I will try doing that more often

[edgy arrow]

yeah you want to get into the habit of dash attacking basically every time

[honest kernel]

dash strike makes your attack charge up way faster

[hearty onyx]

You can practice power shotting while dash striking on Skelly

[edgy arrow]

just fall into the rhythm of it

[kindred panther]

the bow dash attack is weird right... you have to hold down attack and then dash right?

[hearty onyx]

No that's Arthur combo

[honest kernel]

no you dash and then attack

[kindred panther]

that doesn't seem to work for me

[honest kernel]

theres no visual difference so its a bit confusing

its just faster

[edgy arrow]

yeah just do it and then do a standing attack; you’ll be able to feel the difference in charge time

it’s a lot faster

[kindred panther]

how do y'all setup your heat?

[hearty onyx]

Also the attack does slightly less damage

[edgy arrow]

technically does less damage but don’t worry about that; it’s 100% worth the trade

[hearty onyx]

But it doesn't matter since it's much faster

[edgy arrow]

yeah

[edgy arrow]

have you read the guide in the pins?

[kindred panther]

I'll check it out thanks

[gaunt fiber]

You made me consider it

[edgy arrow]

remember that time i came up with the hardest 16 heat pact i could think of and you did it with GY for fun

i’ve learned nothing

[hoary pasture]

What was it

[kindred panther]

EM 4 is 15 on its own

btw what is Personal Liability? I'm on Switch, I don't seem to have that heat option?

[hearty onyx]

Hell mode only

[kindred panther]

what is hell mode

[hearty onyx]

Removes mercy invincibility

It's like a "Hard Mode"

[kindred panther]

mercy invincibility?

[hearty onyx]

If you take too much damage you will be temporarily invincible normally

[kindred panther]

I've never heard of any of this. how do you activate hell mode

[hearty onyx]

With that heat option you don't

Oh it's an option when you make a save file

[edgy arrow]

RI4 AP2 FO1

[kindred panther]

does it exist on switch?

[hearty onyx]

Yes

[kindred panther]

i've never seen it

[hoary pasture]

ofc its mirrorless

[edgy arrow]

what did you expect lol

[kindred panther]

you have to turn it on when you make the save file? like I can't turn it on now?

[hearty onyx]

Guan Yu can heal, it's fine

[solar maple]

hell mode is just a checkmark at the bottom when you make a new save

[hoary pasture]

Was expecting it to be fun atleast

[solar maple]

it's always on for that save

[edgy arrow]

why would you expect that

[hoary pasture]

lol

[edgy arrow]

depends on your definition of fun ig lol

[solar maple]

don't worry about hell mode tbh

[edgy arrow]

yeah i don't use hell mode

its unnecessary unless you're trying to go for heat world records really

[solar maple]

it's mostly used at extremely high heat (50+) to get a "free" heat

[edgy arrow]

^

[kindred panther]

so the dash strike for bows... I am on switch, with a procontroller (dunno if that makes a difference) and the dash strike only triggers if I dash while I was already drawing back the bow for the regular attack. If I dash and then immediately attack like all the other weapons, it just halts my dash and starts drawing back for an attack

[hearty onyx]

Weird

[solar maple]

that is not what we mean by dash strike

[kindred panther]

wdym then

[hearty onyx]

I'm also on switch and I never had any problems

[solar maple]

the halt + draw back will charge faster and do a bit less damage

that is the dash strike

[kindred panther]

oh

[edgy arrow]

yeah it isn't like an attack while dashing

[kindred panther]

try drawing back first, then dashing. it immediately fires out an arrow

[edgy arrow]

its just a bonus you get if you attack immediately after a dash

[solar maple]

yeah if you dash it releases the shot you are currently charging

[edgy arrow]

yeah that's like dash cancelling the attack animation

[kindred panther]

oh okay. well then there isn't anything wrong with mine. so why is dash strike so important then I don't get it

[solar maple]

they charge much faster

[hoary pasture]

Its faster

[solar maple]

which lets you attack at range with much more safety

[edgy arrow]

you literally complained about the charge being too slow upthread lol

you're right, and this is the solution

[kindred panther]

yeah I was testing it out

[hoary pasture]

try rama explosive shot

[kindred panther]

okay I am gonna see if I can make all your advice work. thanks everybody

[hearty onyx]

That's not even a bow, that's just Aphro cast

[kindred panther]

do y'all take chaos pits on high heat?

[hoary pasture]

I do in Tartarus but im not on really high heat

[edgy arrow]

yeah

its a good idea to keep an eye on your chamber number so you don't give yourself the wrong curse in a boss fight

and sometimes it isn't worth the risk in elysium if you're running AP and aren't strapped for time

but i usually take them

[hoary pasture]

Chaos with AP2 real gamer move

[edgy arrow]

i'd still take AP2 chaos in tart

time save is real

and if you die, its tart so its not like you lost much progress

[kindred panther]

yeah I've always done that. one thing I can't figure out is... so usually it goes, the last chamber before the shop chamber before the boss is 12 in tartarus, 22 in asphodel, and 34 in elysium. but sometimes, I don't know why, it will be extended to 13, 23, and 35. Anyone know why?

[edgy arrow]

yeah so its extended if you take a chaos or erebus gate on the last chamber in a biome

[kindred panther]

ohhh

[gaunt fiber]

Thunder flourish right :)

[edgy arrow]

so if you take a chaos gate chamber 12, the chaos room is chamber 13 so that pushes the end shop to 14

[kindred panther]

okay so if you take it in 12 22 or 34

[edgy arrow]

yeah

[kindred panther]

I see. thanks

[edgy arrow]

didn't you just choose to do that yourself

[gaunt fiber]

Maybe

[edgy arrow]

although i encouraged it iirc

[gaunt fiber]

It became an official rule iirc

The bonus being tempest strike

[edgy arrow]

oh yeah lol

go for sea storm on AP2

clearly correct choice

[gaunt fiber]

My 45 GY is sea storm

deal with it

[edgy arrow]

i'm trying to deal with it, i really am

hmm i'm gonna try a GY 45 rq

it counts as a win if i get out of tart

#achievablegoals

[gaunt fiber]

It depends on what is your +5 heat I guess

I went for AP2 because I was comfortable with any build/hammer with GY at 40

But if you're going for RI2 you're gonna have a bad time

[edgy arrow]

... AP2 it is

[gaunt fiber]

Nice

[edgy arrow]

this way i get more health

which may or may not be a good strat

[gaunt fiber]

More health but more importantly, more gold rooms

[edgy arrow]

what am i spending gold on at AP2

[gaunt fiber]

Good question

Health is always a good buy

[edgy arrow]

that's true

[gaunt fiber]

I would not buy Hermes

Artemis/Aphro

[edgy arrow]

okay i just thought of a potentially stupid strat

[gaunt fiber]

Like everything from these two is good

[edgy arrow]

golden touch

i'll just avoid spending money for the first two biomes, make bank, then switch to hourglass and buy an absurd number of well items in elsyium

its flawless

[gaunt fiber]

Why is it registered as "Midas Touch" in my brain

[edgy arrow]

probably because no one ever uses golden touch lol

[honest kernel]

I thought it was called midas touch

[gaunt fiber]

Pog

[honest kernel]

maybe in an earlier version?

[edgy arrow]

midas touch is the well item that gives you gold for health

[gaunt fiber]

Oh yeah!

Free gold except if your name is Guan Yu

[edgy arrow]

sadge

[honest kernel]

so they changed it when they added the well item to 1.0

[edgy arrow]

so i guess i do shackle start

[gaunt fiber]

Guan Yu be like : no midas touch no chaos

BuT yOu CaN sPiN

Riskiest move in the game but np

[gaunt fiber]

It's really strong

Like you'll destroy tart

[edgy arrow]

oh boy flaring spin stonks

i can't lose

[gaunt fiber]

if you're running Tartarus%

You might get WR

[edgy arrow]

lmao

i mean, i'm trying to get as far as i can, but i suspect that won't be far

[gaunt fiber]

Mercy Charged skewer maybe

[edgy arrow]

well, that was a practice run

time for the real thing

lol just got curse of agony, got a swap to deadly strike then got another swap back to curse of agony

what a rollercoaster

AP2 sure is a time

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah it's fun

when you have a mirror

[edgy arrow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/755802335112069312/826423418320453642/Hades_30_03_2021_10_21_15_PM.png

oh boy

[gaunt fiber]

it's here 👀

[edgy arrow]

i was too cowardly

[kindred panther]

is Athena's call pretty much the best one for 32?

[edgy arrow]

i rerolled and got thunder flourish again

[gaunt fiber]

Mistakes

[edgy arrow]

then rerolled into double strike

[gaunt fiber]

wait

you double reroll on Zeus

[edgy arrow]

now i have double strike and zeus dash

[gaunt fiber]

are you planning to clear with the dash

[edgy arrow]

idek

hopefully?

its epic zeus dash epic double strike

massive stonks

[gaunt fiber]

Not really, it's a rather ok one but not decisive

More and more Zeus is always fun

[kindred panther]

what is the best one for 32 in your opinion

zeus?

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah I'd rather have a dps call

[edgy arrow]

okay i'm doing a trial just so zeus has more chances to screw me over

i'm giving up a hammer for this

[gaunt fiber]

But just aim for your regular build

[kindred panther]

k

[gaunt fiber]

the call is not key

[bright mango]

I like poseidon the best

[gaunt fiber]

unless smoldering shenanigans

[edgy arrow]

AP2 smoldering shenanigans lol

i can dream

[honest kernel]

generally dio, zeus and poseidon do the most dps

[gaunt fiber]

Well

Duo is not that unlikely

since you have a ton of gold rooms

it may happen anyway

if you focus a god to exhaust the boons

[edgy arrow]

lol

just got aphro

lets go

i believe

[gaunt fiber]

that's pog

[edgy arrow]

i do need a call ofc

tiny detail

screw it i'm forcing zeus into aspho

highroll or go home

[bright mango]

Lets do it

[edgy arrow]

ok lernie hard

[gaunt fiber]

yes

[edgy arrow]

i should have taken acorn in aspho

i'll do that next time

[kindred panther]

when using arthur, do you take privileged status or family favorite? PS can be hard to get with the really slow weapons right?

[bright mango]

Family favorites

I only use privilege status for something like chaos shield

[kindred panther]

cool thx

[vital grove]

I only use Privileged Status for Chiron going doom hangover

I guess it would be fine on ME builds on lower heat where you can find exposed easily

[mossy zinc]

Congratulations! 💕

[honest kernel]

thanks

currently trying to do gilgamesh

quickly gave up now doing call/cast build

why is this weapon

[celest grail]

do dash only gilga 40 heat

[honest kernel]

seems also ok

[celest grail]

it'd probably be easier than normal gilga lol

[mossy zinc]

"Touch of Midas", I believe?

[honest kernel]

yeah I think so

I hate how dash strikes with gilga are 2 attacks that just lock you in place?

maim feels completly unusable

[mossy zinc]

Yeah idk I thought it's still called that.

[honest kernel]

same 🥴

[celest grail]

and deal dmg that isnt enough to kill even a numbsksull

[honest kernel]

yeah

I tried to build around ME first but the run never gets going basicially

[bright mango]

Yeah that’s why I like using ZAP at high heat

[mossy zinc]

Use Ruthless Reflex for Gilgamesh.

[honest kernel]

that seems smart yeah

[mossy zinc]

It actually helps its poor DPS a bit.

It's still poor though lol.

[honest kernel]

I can manage the poor dps but the weapon just feels so sluggish

[kindred panther]

cool! 2 down on 32 now using everyone's advice here. fists and sword done.

[honest kernel]

you die really fast

nice congratz!

[kindred panther]

had 8/405 life left on last life, TD already expired when he went down haha

[mossy zinc]

Ruthless Reflex will give you some Dodge chance, but yeah, they're easily the worst Malphon aspect.

Passion Dash into Lightning Strike + Zeus' Aid is a good start for DPS.

[kindred panther]

I hate gilgamesh. I always use demeter or zagreus. my 32 clear was with zag

[mossy zinc]

You can do Tidal Dash if you never want your Dash-Upper to work on anything ever again lol and your Dash-Strike also to regularly whiff.

(Don't do it. )

[kindred panther]

that's my favorite way to go with the fists. poseidon dash + athena attack. just blast through + deflect everything. needs hermes extra dashes though, and quick attack helps too

[honest kernel]

yeah I was playing w tidal

[kindred panther]

maybe i'm just weird or something

[honest kernel]

honestly I could try out tidal+seastorm and cast and ignore it all

[mossy zinc]

Just do a Cast build? I've tried it, and DPS was poor because the dashes are so short. Being up close with any Dash that isn't Tidal will allow you to proc Ruthless Reflex regularly for +50% global damage, that helps quite a lot.

[honest kernel]

seems like a better idea yeah

im gonna try to grab both zeus/athena and zeus/aphro duos

[mossy zinc]

I'd prioritize Smoldering Air over Lightning Phalanx.

Lightning Phalanx is always nice, though.

You could also try my favorite build and get Heartbreak Strike, Heartbreak Flourish, Crush Shot, Passion Dash, Aphrodite's Aid, and Unhealthy Fixation.

[honest kernel]

[mossy zinc]

It's the bestest build. 💕

[waxen relic]

Maim into Smoldering Air Call with Second Wind worked quite well on Gilgamesh

[mossy zinc]

Lady Aphrodite called me a perfect little angel yesterday. 💕

https://tenor.com/view/anime-girl-light-blue-hair-anime-happy-anime-girl-blushing-anime-gif-18983492

[bright mango]

[vale bison]

is there any optimal way to traverse the Temple of Satyrs to minimize time spent to get the sac?

[quartz mantle]

Going to miniboss tunnels first since the miniboss rooms take less time to clear

[bright mango]

^^

But sacks will always screw you over

[plucky mural]

Oooh! good to know

[vale bison]

Got it. Thanks!

[vale bison]

Litteraly just lost a run because I took 5 tunnels to find the sac xD

[bright mango]

yeah

[quartz mantle]

That's how it be some times

[bright mango]

Whenever I run dio beo, I always get 5 sacced

Like always

Also when I speedrun hestia

Its always 4/5 sacs

[quartz mantle]

It's your punishment for running the heretic beo cast

[edgy arrow]

i lost a sub 8 to dio beo run to a 4 sack recently

pain is real

[bright mango]

tbh it doesn't even matter if I get 5 sacced bcs the thing freaking nukes

[vale bison]

Wait

Is Dionysus on Beowoulf good??

[edgy arrow]

yeah

[bright mango]

ohhhhhh yeah

[quartz mantle]

dio cast does a lot of damage

[bright mango]

As in you can phase dad

[edgy arrow]

its a highroll build, but when it works it works

[quartz mantle]

and beo removes the time it takes for you to throw it cause it instantly casts it

[spice lava]

Yeah, but it's better played with stygian blood instead of infernal

[edgy arrow]

pos cast is more consistent and better for high heat, but dio beo dominates in speedruns

[bright mango]

Exclusive access, mirage shot, bad news, chaos cast and boom instant dad phase

it does take some time to get running

[vale bison]

I though that the fact that you cannot retrieve the blood thing once you kill the enemy would make it not good

[bright mango]

And you need luck

[hoary pasture]

Stygian

[bright mango]

Thats why you use stygian

[hoary pasture]

and pray

[edgy arrow]

the optimal dio beo build is to get scint feast but never use it because things are already dead

[quartz mantle]

That's why you run stygian and go for extra casts with chaos

[hoary pasture]

for chaos

[bright mango]

yeah I never look for scint

[vale bison]

the more you know

[bright mango]

bcs things just die

[edgy arrow]

yeah lol

like, i'll take it if it lands in my lap

but i'm not going looking for it

[vale bison]

200 hours into this game and I'm still learning new things

[bright mango]

Optimal god pool is dio, artemis, poseidon, zeus/demeter

[edgy arrow]

dude i'm like 650 hours into the game and still learning things