h1-high-heat-strategies

[mossy zinc]

Done. Thanks for the ping!

I've also added a note that the run was moved due to no previous death in the video.

@vale bison congratulations! And next time, do what @waxen relic said to show the run was unseeded.

[wicked terrace]

Does EM3 have higher HP than normal? Im considering removing it at this point, i feel like they outsustain me :(

[mossy zinc]

Yeah.

[faint reef]

What's best options for 8 heat. I'm using 1 labour, 1 lasting conseq, 1 jury summons, max calisthenics, max heightened security, 1 tight deadline

[wicked terrace]

calisthenics is very punishing

no reason to take it imo

[vale bison]

Oops, sorry! Didn't know that. I'll do that next time

[waxen relic]

Np

[faint reef]

Really? it seemed one of the easier ones for me. More chance to get hit but still same patterns

[wicked terrace]

30% hp is a lot, iirc people usually avoid it.

[waxen relic]

CP affects Bosses, and you're also getting pressed for time higher up, so you wanna one-shor even more.

[vale bison]

Especially because of the bosses, tho

[faint reef]

Should I remove calisthenics and level up tight deadline? Atm I'm finishing around 29/30 minutes

[mossy zinc]

@wicked terrace love your profile pic by the way.

[wicked terrace]

thank u ☺️

[mossy zinc]

8 Heat is not exactly high heat, by the way.

[vale bison]

I would reccomend using tight deadline, yeah. With a little bit of practice, even max levelling it is not that big of a deal

[faint reef]

I put deadline up one and calisthenics down one

[wicked terrace]

i suggest tight deadline 2, UC and the rest random combination of 1 point ones depending on your weapon

[faint reef]

Okay ty

[bright mango]

TD is pretty good first heat

[magic knoll]

avoid HS

HS is really punishing so i dont recommend for 8 heat

or maybe its just i cant avoid traps 😔

[vale bison]

You could also put EM1 or 2 to start practising it

You will eventually have to master the EM fights anyway if you want to play on higher Heat

[faint reef]

Yeah traps I can avoid but lava is almost impossible to

Fairs I guess I'll try em

[mossy zinc]

This channel is more for 32+ Heat. #h1-builds-and-combat or #h1-discussion are more suited for this discussion. This is essentially the endgame channel.

[magic knoll]

are there any good alternatives to LC4 for 32 heat?

been using it in my attempts but it's a bit too punishing for me

im following the guide pinned here so yea

[mossy zinc]

I mean yeah, you can put the Heat into whatever else you want.

But it's not necessarily gonna make things easier for you.

[bright mango]

Definitely

32 heat is super flexible

[magic knoll]

ok then i guess I'll just experiment with other stuff

[mossy zinc]

You'll just have other problems to deal with.

[magic knoll]

idk cuz like I'm struggling using the heat in the guide and maybe if I change its just gonna get harder

[magic knoll]

yea i guess so

[mossy zinc]

Nyaanyaa's 32 Heat Guide
HL5 LC4 CF2 EM3 BP2 MM UC TD3
Stubborn Defiance
Eternal Rose > Owl Pendant > Lucky Tooth/Acorn > Acorn

That's what I think is generally the easiest pact.

[spice lava]

Well it's 32 heat, whatever your pact is, it's expected to be the hard

[bright mango]

Don’t take eternal rose for every weapon

[mossy zinc]

Eternal Rose is an amazing start for a lot of aspects.

[magic knoll]

im not confident enough to use TD3 lmao

[bright mango]

That’s true

But just don’t take it for every weapon

[magic knoll]

TD3 is 20 minute clear right?

[spice lava]

Td3 requires to know your aspect very well

[bright mango]

Nyaanyaa can get away with it because she’s good at the game

[mossy zinc]

Why not? Eternal Rose start has the speedrun WR at 32 for 4/6 weapons.

[spice lava]

And some aspects suck with TD3

[bright mango]

Refer to the message above

[gaunt fiber]

You'll be fine with practice Inspector

[magic knoll]

alright then I'll just start using TD3 now

[mossy zinc]

TD3, LC4, whatever else you're struggling with, the answer to your problems is practice, practice, practice.

[bright mango]

You can take td2 at 32 heat

No problem

[mossy zinc]

You can.

But you'll have to deal with other things.

[magic knoll]

I've been getting faster in my runs but thats lower heat so I guess I'll just try it out for 32

[bright mango]

The only problem I see with your pact nyaanyaa is CF2

[spice lava]

Td3 will make you learn to count the rooms and use a lot more the free rooms: chaos, ! and shops

[magic knoll]

tbh I dont really buy a lot anyways

[mossy zinc]

CF2 doesn't matter with FO0 tbh.

[magic knoll]

so in my case CF2 isnt a huge problem

[bright mango]

I just like boons

[mossy zinc]

You can still get solid builds, and all the enemies move in slow motion.

[spice lava]

Buying or not, you don't lose time on shops unless you want to steal Charon's money

[bright mango]

I don’t take it in my 40 runs either

[bright mango]

That’s true lol

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, take all the free rooms you can get.

This might help you speed things up. It's a good guide. https://youtu.be/z3Mmoo4oTKU

You don't have to get actual speedrun pace to deal with TD3, but it's still good to have an understanding for how you can speed things up.

[gaunt fiber]

After a while it becomes natural to move towards the exit

[fickle heron]

It might get harder but you also realise which conditions hurt you more than others. Keep in mind that every weapon has easier or harder pacts depending on how you play them. I beat 32 heat yesterday for the first time. I was hard trying it with arthur and after my 5th attempt I realised LC4 and SD is not my playstyle. I struggle at the bosses. So I went with LC2 and kept using DDs. It worked out for me.

[mossy zinc]

LC4 SD just gives you more consistency once you can do the boss fights with that because you avoid 4 Heat elsewhere, and you'll have way more eHP over a run with SD, anyway.

All the money you save on healing items you can spend on your build.

Touches of Styx are super cheap.

Touch of Styx Dark is broken.

Lady Athena has two tier 2 boons that are better than a legendary with her two free DDs with +10% or more healing from your SDs or longer invincibility upon revive.

[magic knoll]

ah alright I'll check it out

[magic knoll]

ok then I'll just experiment

[wicked terrace]

do you think rail aspect of zagreus has potential? or eris just better in every way

[magic knoll]

thanks a lot for the help

[mossy zinc]

There are a lot of good reasons LC4 SD is meta.

[quartz mantle]

I think I've ended up playing worse because of LC4 SD lol

it's just easier than DDs

I get hit way more often now

[mossy zinc]

@wicked terrace Zag Rail is just Eris with -75% damage.

The only real place Zag Rail has in the meta is Spread Fire.

[wicked terrace]

got it

[mossy zinc]

Also Chaos Gates are often practically free because you can just revive and get your HP back in the next chamber.

[bright mango]

Exactly lol

I can’t take dd’s as now

[quartz mantle]

I need to do more Butterfly runs so I quit getting hit by enemies so much

[bright mango]

I have one good butterfly run

[quartz mantle]

I used to do butterfly runs all the time before I started pushing past like 16 heat

[bright mango]

And that was before I went down the high heat hole

Lol yeah

[spice lava]

I won't recommend butterfly because it's an item that doesn't teach you the calculated risks you need to take from time to time

[quartz mantle]

I think I simply need to get better at dodging enemies and using whatever god I get given so I don't rely on athena boons all the time

[spice lava]

It's fine, relying on athena dash or dd is a strat that is more than used at 50 heat and more

No worries about that, whatever your current skill at the game 👀

[quartz mantle]

I was just looking at all my 32 heat run screenshots and I think all of them had athena dash

And just like

I wanna not be so reliant on that

[spice lava]

No shame about that, really

I could toss my 53 clear away because I ended up with 1 hp at Lernie so my survival was pure luck, right?

But a win is a win 👀

You won 32 because you had plans and if Athena dash is part of your plans, you can stick with it if that's what you wish

[quartz mantle]

Yea and that's fine but I want to be better

[spice lava]

Add heat 😄

If choice is the part you want to improve, you can try AP

You will have uncomfortables runs, probably a bunch of resets

But you can learn an aspect better and find out the least minimal stuff it needs to have decent DPS during a run

But AP is still avoidable at heat 40 so it's up to you

[quartz mantle]

Also Butterfly runs make me not rely on Acorn as much

I end up just face tanking dad a lot cause Acorn gives me enough health to do so

[spice lava]

Did you try above 32 heat?

[quartz mantle]

I haven't done a butterfly run in a while but I would probably do it at 32 heat or above

just throwing on some basic pact stuff

[bright mango]

HL5 and LC4 are free

[quartz mantle]

Exactly

HL5 LC4 RI4 is free I just have to not get hit

[bright mango]

Ok lets slow down

RI4 not free

[spice lava]

^

[wicked terrace]

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1725415888664179118/354A6C995CF91440676C48EB5D04C7E3459656BD/
I did it! Damn gaming is hard, never thought i'd actually be able to do this ^^

[spice lava]

I think that Athena dash or not, keeping on doing high heat above 32 will make you improve

[quartz mantle]

Purple Eris
Purple Eris

[wicked terrace]

purple eris

[pseudo kernel]

bruh

purple eris

[quartz mantle]

Purple eris with purple purple attack

🟪

[bright mango]

Double purple attack

[pseudo kernel]

purple eris, purple bullets and purple boon

[wicked terrace]

ehh yeah there was a lot of lucky stuff happening

but a win is a win

im proud

[unique zephyr]

My mirrorless stuff is proof of that

One dash + no DF = pain

It’s funny how fated persuasion > fated authority even in mirrorless bc keys

[unique zephyr]

I did one 40 clear with Hestia but I want to finish 32 sword first

Maybe I’ll do beo next for 40 but not sure how to avoid both CF and AP

I know it wasn’t me you were talking to. I did have Artemis dash for one of my 32 clears (Zag bow)

[solar maple]

at 40 beo you do have to make some concessions

[unique zephyr]

CF is better than AP probably right

[bright mango]

turns out dio beo was the solution to all my problems

I think I'm going to do that for my 50

[quartz mantle]

I ran CF1 on my 40 heat beo

[solar maple]

I lost a 50 heat dio beo to dad today 😦

[bright mango]

My 40 beo was AP0 and CF0

[solar maple]

1 cast, took a greedy hourglass into styx for the second cast lol

[quartz mantle]

Did you run JS2 or something?

[bright mango]

JS2 EM4

[quartz mantle]

Oh damn

[solar maple]

yeah you can definitely do CF0 AP0, but imo it is harder

[bright mango]

really?

[unique zephyr]

I wish I was good enough at TD3 to not time out with JS

[quartz mantle]

I mean I'd rather have CF1 than do EM4

[solar maple]

though actually you could just run JS3

[unique zephyr]

In Hestia JS1 was hard for me

[solar maple]

then you get CF0 AP0

[unique zephyr]

CF1 doesn’t seem that bad

On 40

[bright mango]

It is

[quartz mantle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/782785382244155414/819606726725992489/unknown.png this was my 40 heat Beo pact

[bright mango]

I hate it

[unique zephyr]

Was timer ever a problem for you with js2 or does beo handle js2 fine

[bright mango]

Nah its fine

[quartz mantle]

Beo slapped them around easily

[unique zephyr]

I wish I was better with timer in general even with practice I still fail TD3 sometimes

[solar maple]

beo handles JS fine if you know how to play it

it has very good aoe

one of the best at doing js tbh

[unique zephyr]

My TD3 failures usually involve bad BP combos like savior rooms

[solar maple]

up there with rama

[bright mango]

I think my 45 beo will still be AP0 and CF0

[unique zephyr]

Or sometimes bad elysium room rng

Some enemy compositions take so long to kill

[quartz mantle]

I feel like Beo can deal with CP pretty easily

just a lot of damage

Haven't taken it on beo yet tho so idk

[bright mango]

HL5 and JS3 and CP1

[unique zephyr]

For Hestia CP > JS or no

[bright mango]

No

[unique zephyr]

How does Hestia handle CP

[bright mango]

I like JS better

[solar maple]

CP makes bosses harder so I don't like it

[unique zephyr]

I’m not sure how to do Hestia 45

[bright mango]

Since CP doesn't let you one shot enemies

[unique zephyr]

I could add AP2 to my 40 pact

[bright mango]

No

Don't

[solar maple]

hm that seems rough

[unique zephyr]

That sounds horrible though

[quartz mantle]

CP makes some enemies take twice as long to kill because they don't die in one hit

[bright mango]

Exactly

Thats why I don't like it

[unique zephyr]

I feel bad for hell mode players because CP1 is mandatory

[bright mango]

I took JS3 and CP0 on my

[unique zephyr]

Is CP1 the hardest of the 5 mandatory pacts on hell mode

[solar maple]

I would say AP1 is worth it for hestia

at 45

[quartz mantle]

Hestia doesn't really care about boons right

[bright mango]

yeah Ap1 is fine

[unique zephyr]

So I can do AP1 and max JS

[quartz mantle]

you can just like take shackle

[unique zephyr]

I need to be much faster for max JS

I already had timer issues with JS1 Hestia when I did it for 40

[solar maple]

yeah I'm really not sure what hestia 45 looks like

I know AP2 RI2 is viable at 50

and you want RI0 for sure at 45

so maybe AP2 is worth it? idk

[quartz mantle]

I mean does Hestia really need boons tho

[solar maple]

boons are good

[bright mango]

I would think AP1 and JS3 and CP1

No RI

[unique zephyr]

45 is going to be rough once I try it

[solar maple]

yeah seems like you choose between AP2 and a bunch of JS/CP

[bright mango]

Don't take Ap2

It sucks

[solar maple]

RI0 gaming

you still get ok boons

[bright mango]

True but Ap2 is just so bad

[unique zephyr]

Is RI1 worse than AP1

[solar maple]

yeah it is for sure

yes RI1 is way worse

not close imo

[unique zephyr]

I guess AP1 is just more obvious then

Is RI1 comparable to AP2 in how much it hurts you

Build wise

[bright mango]

I would rather take Ap2 RIO than AP1 and RI2

Thats my 50 em4 pact

Never completed it

But its there

[solar maple]

I also prefer RI0 AP2 to RI2 AP1

[unique zephyr]

How do people avoid EM4 at 50 anyway

[bright mango]

Ri2 Ap2

Or max JS and CP

It can be avoided

[solar maple]

generally for 50 heat you have to take at least 2 of: em4, RI2, AP2, TD3

[bright mango]

But RI2 is mandatory for avoided em4

[solar maple]

those define your pact

for beo I take td3 em4

[bright mango]

Same

[solar maple]

most rama players take td3 RI2

[unique zephyr]

Do you hope for two sack

For TD3 EM4

[bright mango]

I got 5 sacked on my last beo run with td3 and em4

It was fine

[solar maple]

retrash takes em4 AP2

[bright mango]

Still had a minute

[unique zephyr]

EM4 feels like an extra biome

[bright mango]

And it was JS2

[unique zephyr]

Wow

[solar maple]

beo goes fast

[unique zephyr]

Explains how I got a speed pb on 32 by accident almost

[solar maple]

I've been doing 40 heat speedruns recently, shooting for sub 9

I hae quite a few sub 10s

lol yeah beo is quick

as long as you don't take dc

dc makes it slow

everthing else is fine

[unique zephyr]

Do people have general EM4 tips? When I start healing physically I’d like to practice it

Right now the fight takes too much concentration for too long though but that’s a “me” thing due to health issues

[bright mango]

I've just left it on

I feel like thats the best way to practice it

only time I don't use it is if I legitimately want to clear a 50 run

[unique zephyr]

How compatible is EM4 with TD3

[bright mango]

I don't mind it

But again I've only really completed em4 at 40

I've made it to dad twice at 50 with em4, and its wasn't the timer that killed me

I had like 3 min going into the fight

[vale bison]

I didn't even know that EM4 was doable with TD3

[hearty onyx]

It's certainly possible

[vale bison]

Actually thought that was impossible

[bright mango]

at 40 I normally do em4 + td3. But again, thats the highest heat I've beaten em4 at

[vale bison]

:O

[hearty onyx]

The bigger problem at td3 is a 5 sack

[bright mango]

I had a 5 sack on my last em4 run

I was more mad about losing my athena DD in one of the tunnels

since dio beo nukes everything

the 5 sack didn't matter

There was no skill involved

[spice lava]

@unique zephyr https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/787779476888354816/813051595084005377/unknown.png

I was able to rush despite TD3 with Hestia, then he kicked my butt

[bright mango]

That sucks

[spice lava]

EM4 generally makes the rest of the pact lighter, so it's really possible to go fast enough to have plenty of time to deal with him

Ofc that's not the case if you go above 50 with EM4

[bright mango]

oh its em4

[spice lava]

Yeah Bacchus was asking about how EM4 and TD3 are compatible

[solar maple]

tbh em4 loses less time/heat than JS/CP/DC (usually for DC, not true for all aspects)

em4 is 4 heat which is a ton

I would say that em4 will pretty much always be faster than JS3 CP1

[honest kernel]

dad fight hard though

I guess if ur confident in em4 its pretty sweet

[bright mango]

tis the retrash way of life

[spice lava]

That's the problem: Few people are confident with EM4

[bright mango]

few meaning like 3 people

[spice lava]

The high heat is cruel

[honest kernel]

im giving up on trying to play dem fists properly

time to just slap on drunken strike and call it a day

[bright mango]

[mossy zinc]

If it works for you, it works.

[honest kernel]

I just keep dying when I try to make the dash upper work

[bright mango]

punch people with beer fists

[patent isle]

dash upper is too hard for me on keyboard

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, only the most amazing players can do that.

[honest kernel]

dash upper more like miss upper

[mossy zinc]

Do you have auto aim on?

[honest kernel]

yes

[mossy zinc]

Hmm.

Have you watched my most recent Malphon video? Maybe that will help a bit.

[honest kernel]

no lemme see

it might also just be like me not liking how fists play in general

I see what my mistake was, I put artemis on special and not aphrodite

no but for real, I think I'm just not as good at judging when I should use the upper vs strikes yet

and I am not that good at keeping up the combo either

[mossy zinc]

Oh, you have the link already?

[honest kernel]

I just looked at your channel

[mossy zinc]

I just kind of gauge things like that on the fly, too.

[honest kernel]

your dash strikes are lightning fast ngl

[mossy zinc]

Like the first Witch you see in a region, do a Dash-Upper. If it dies, that's all you need to do. If it doesn't, try Dash-Strike > Dash-Upper on the next one, etc.

Thanks. :3

There's no hard cutoff, but roughly, yeah.

[honest kernel]

32 for the cool kids club

[mossy zinc]

High heat leaderboard starts at 32.

[honest kernel]

I wonder if I could do fist combos better on hitbox but then I'd have to get used to a new layout

[eager vortex]

32 : cool kids club
40 : cooler kids club
50 : g4m3r

[mossy zinc]

Dunno. It's probably less the controls than just practice.

[honest kernel]

yeah prob

pad grip just makes my hand ache after a while

[bright mango]

60 is pogchamps

[honest kernel]

plus I can just cheese fists on 40 with other methods

[edgy arrow]

high heat starts at 64, we're actually all low heat players

except Baj i guess

[mossy zinc]

What pad? Xbox pad is much nicer to my hands than a DS4.

[honest kernel]

yeah i have ds4

[eager vortex]

also if you aren't running at least RI1 you are casul

(like me, I am casul)

[honest kernel]

I used to play fgs on sd4 but it destroyed my hands

[edgy arrow]

lol Retrash did RI0 55

[bright mango]

RI bad

[edgy arrow]

is he a casual now

[eager vortex]

yes

[edgy arrow]

lmao

[eager vortex]

cuz he didn't run RI1+

for that particular run

in spesific

[honest kernel]

but hades was kinda w/e on pad so far

[eager vortex]

he had a casul moment

50 heat kicked my ass so bad I went all the way back to 16 heat, doing cursed builds

[bright mango]

Yeah the first time I tried 50, I died in chamber 4

[eager vortex]

unnecessary for 32

[edgy arrow]

^

[eager vortex]

torture

for no reason

[edgy arrow]

it really isn't

[honest kernel]

its not the end of the world but there are easier pact options I guess

[edgy arrow]

^

Dark foresight is extremely powerful

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, Malphon used to tire out my hands pretty fast. Needed breaks after like a handful of runs.

[edgy arrow]

oh lol

[mossy zinc]

I do much fewer wasted button presses now, though.

[edgy arrow]

also unnecessary at 32 tbh

[eager vortex]

ap1 also unnecessary for 32

[bright mango]

DONT TAKE AP OR RI AT 32

BAD IDEA

[hoary pasture]

lol

[edgy arrow]

most pacts are better than RI1 lol

[quartz mantle]

🗞️

[edgy arrow]

doesn't mean its a good idea

[mossy zinc]

Wdym? You can't get on the mirrorless leaderboard unless you do at least 32 RI4.

[honest kernel]

yeah malphon is the most execution heavy weapon to me so far

[edgy arrow]

yeah exactly Nyaanyaa

the options at 32 are RI0 and RI4

no in between

[eager vortex]

that's fine I won't ever get in that leaderboard

[mossy zinc]

No. It's just RI4.

RI0 is not an option.

Unless you want me point out how much slower your 32 RI0 was than mine.

[edgy arrow]

in my defence, i haven't tried to speedrun 32 in a long time

i'd still be slower than you if i tried ofc

but no one needs to know that

[mossy zinc]

No.

Everyone needs to know that.

[edgy arrow]

oh

[eager vortex]

is sub10 at 32 heat

[edgy arrow]

sadge

[eager vortex]

a good achievement

[edgy arrow]

yes

also pretty hard tbh

[bronze viper]

I agree with this for weapons, but hoo buddy do you have to play 4D chess to optimize Zeus aspect lol.

The rest of the shields, not so much

[edgy arrow]

not that many people have done sub 10 32

[honest kernel]

I never thought of zeus too bad its quite a breeze on 40 so far

but theres room to improve it for sure

[edgy arrow]

the difference zeus has a pretty high skill floor

but a ludicrously high skill ceiling

[bronze viper]

Zeus is still a shield, so it's still kind of great if you're playing in your heat comfort range

[eager vortex]

what's the best aspect to use with stygian soul btw I am missing bad news boon so I wanna complete it

[bronze viper]

But if you want to get better at it, there's like a thousand different ways you could choose to do that

[edgy arrow]

beowulf

[eager vortex]

god damnit

okay

[edgy arrow]

also beowulf is the best aspect to use with infernal soul

[bronze viper]

Lmao

[edgy arrow]

its the best aspect

nah you can use basically anything with stygian

[eager vortex]

poseidon okay ?

[edgy arrow]

its be default for most aspects

maybe not poseidon; its has really good infernal synergy

but you could if you want

[eager vortex]

I'll beo I guess

it's low heat anyway, just for the fated list

[bronze viper]

Yeah, most non-cast aspects will want Stygian

[edgy arrow]

you wanna go dio cast for that

yeah what ledger said

[eager vortex]

oki

[edgy arrow]

but some cast builds like it as well, mostly dio beo and dio hera

and like, meme beams if you want lol

[mossy zinc]

I wouldn't call the execution required to optimize Zeus Aspect high, though. Execution is easy, knowing what to do and when to do it is the hard part.

[bronze viper]

Dio Hera feels like... a huge sacrifice of potential lol

[eager vortex]

I'ma go rama actually

[edgy arrow]

dio hera is fine

not top tier, but its pretty good

its also super solid if you have level 1 hera

[honest kernel]

yeah zeus execution is just clicking special and recall

[bronze viper]

You can also kite your special around to make sure it stays out while you're hitting things so you don't have to do the special throw animation again

Stuff like that

[honest kernel]

I think we might have a diff idea of what execution is?

[eager vortex]

those are gamer moves

I jush mash all keys and hope it works

[edgy arrow]

yeah there's execution and then there's strategy

zeus requires more the latter than the former

[bronze viper]

Lol, I mean from an execution standpoint, it's actually quite hard to make the shield not recall into you while you're playing in melee range.

[edgy arrow]

that as well

it kinda blends together i guess

[honest kernel]

mh I suppose thats true

[edgy arrow]

i'm ofc an expert on zeus shield lol

i'm 5th on the anyheat leaderboard

[bronze viper]

There's only one of those. I just played it for a week straight so I have #opinions

[edgy arrow]

(out of 6)

[dire steppe]

the best way to use zeus shield is as a bad zag shield

[edgy arrow]

pretty sure that's not true

[honest kernel]

not the #opinions

[dire steppe]

oh sorry i meant chiron

[edgy arrow]

wait what

[dire steppe]

chiron is a bad zag shield

[bronze viper]

LOL

[edgy arrow]

how

how does block on chiron

oh

i see

that's why its bad

[dire steppe]

charged shot zag shield obviously

[mossy zinc]

What's your best time with it?

[bronze viper]

I only have 3 clears with Zoos lol. 40, 45, 50

[mossy zinc]

Honestly, any time I tried Deadly Flourish on it recently, it felt kinda bad. Heartbreak Flourish is so much better.

I have 4 clears with it.

That makes me 33% more expert than you are.

[bronze viper]

that math checks out

[honest kernel]

I went for deadly reversal strats thats why

but didnt get the duo ever

also I always died before elysium anyway

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, my go-to strat is Heartbreak Flourish into Zeus' Aid.

Can get Divine Dash for that, too.

[honest kernel]

I'll try that next time 👌

[mossy zinc]

Er.

Heartbreak Flourish into Smoldering Air.

But yeah, typically with Zeus' Aid.

But I'll roll for Dionysus' Aid once if I see him first.

[solemn pulsar]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/787779451865399368/825759844631707738/unknown.png?width=2428&height=1366

did someone say dio hera 🙂

(low heat warning)

[bright mango]

IT EXISTS

@solar maple

@bronze viper

[mossy zinc]

Oh no, all those speedrun resets for Charged Skewer skewed my "times used". https://i.imgur.com/5OeBxzb.png https://i.imgur.com/G64X5uD.png

[solemn pulsar]

dio hera with explosive shot is just better charged shot dio beo

[shy plinth]

Charged skewed?

[mossy zinc]

Y u no thumbnail, discord.

[shy plinth]

Or just regular skewed

[solemn pulsar]

because of the /a/ album

not direct image links

[mossy zinc]

Ty ty.

[mossy zinc]

Speedy. Congratulations!

[solemn pulsar]

is this the same file you've been playing on since prerelease or did you star ta new one

[mossy zinc]

As speedy as my 32 Heat shield WR that beat your Beowulf time, though?

Yeah, that's the same one.

Zag Shield > Beowulf.

[solemn pulsar]

3 sack

tho

[mossy zinc]

That's what you get for not having Lady Aphrodite boons.

[solemn pulsar]

its true

[shy gulch]

damn cgull that’s actually a nice time

fully loaded isn’t a myth...

[solemn pulsar]

my current hottest hades take is that dio hera with explosive shot after they damage bugfix goes live has a higher peak than dio beo

since explosive shot more than makes up for primary damage loss

and you can just throw stuff out faster than beo

twin shot also good

[shy gulch]

hmmmm im still gonna need convincing on that

no knock back is a bit unfort, and doesn’t tart just suck w dio hera

not to mention the whole reset for dio cast stuff PLUS hammer

[solemn pulsar]

fiery presence seals a lot of holes in your damage

yeah i know

i'm not saying it's overall better/more consistent

i just think the peak is higher

[shy gulch]

might be interesting to mess around with at least

[solemn pulsar]

on the few runs i got out of tart it was a dream to play

[shy gulch]

I’m prob not gonna do it tho, dio beo already broke me

[solemn pulsar]

that one specifically was nuts

by my math you have a slightly less than 50% chance to get twin or explosive first hammer

[shy gulch]

so you’re accepting half of the amount of runs you’d accept on dio beo

spare me the pain.....

[mossy zinc]

cgull did say higher peak, not better consistency.

[solemn pulsar]

the hammer isn't necessary

but helps

[shy gulch]

faie

fair

[solemn pulsar]

it just affects your time acceptance criteria

[shy gulch]

right

[solemn pulsar]

fiery presence hera is pretty good at cleaning up tartarus if you can time good powershots

i figure a dash powershot to kill a witch in a corner takes about as much time as dash-dash-dash strike on beo

and at least with hera you don't have to reposition

[mossy zinc]

If you get an early Heartbreak Strike, you won't need to power-shoot.

[shy gulch]

[solemn pulsar]

very true, although muddying the duo pool with aphrodite can be a bit rough

when you want mirage so badly

aphro can be a good 4th god, but hardly one you'd want early, in that case

[mossy zinc]

You mean muddying the pool with Lord Dionysus.

[solemn pulsar]

well that's a given, so yeah

[mossy zinc]

Should actually just start with the Eternal Rose, come to think of it. You'll get Heartbreak Strike and Crush Shot. It's great.

You won't even need Stygian Soul.

[solemn pulsar]

You know I barely need to read your messages at this point, I almost always know exactly what you'll say for build advice

[mossy zinc]

Maybe if you'd follow my advice, you'd still have the 32 Aegis WR.

I bet Passion Flare would have done it.

[gaunt fiber]

https://imgur.com/Q9ST19x

pew pew

spicy overtime

[mossy zinc]

pew pew

[solemn pulsar]

ey you got it

[gaunt fiber]

for maximum suspense

[mossy zinc]

Congratulations!

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah got it pretty easily

[solar maple]

it's hard ok I swear

[solemn pulsar]

i think your view of "easily" may be warped after your chiron + guan yu grinds

[gaunt fiber]

After a perfect heartbreak strike run that got 4 sack vermined :)

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah

[solemn pulsar]

that one was so sad

[gaunt fiber]

It's not easy

It's just not as hard lol

[mossy zinc]

That was punishment for all the times you didn't start with the Eternal Rose.

Hang on now.

That's not pew pew.

You didn't have Ricochet Fire.

It's pew.

[gaunt fiber]

Oh yeah, hammers look cool but I don't get the pew pew one sigh

[gaunt fiber]

Do you think we're even now?

[mossy zinc]

It's probably more kaboom than pew, in fact.

[gaunt fiber]

I would say kabonk because it's Athena

[mossy zinc]

Well, you evidently didn't start with the Eternal Rose on this run. So I don't think so.

You clearly haven't learned a thing.

[gaunt fiber]

:(

[eager vortex]

k forget 50 heat I'm done

managed to reach asterius the rigged boss at least

[bright mango]

wow good job!

reached asterius

Thats good

[eager vortex]

asterius charge needs a nerf

I have no idea

how to counter that

• fo2

[gaunt fiber]

You have to force him to crash into a wall or pillar by dashing perpendicularly to him

[eager vortex]

he just goes around the pillar

[gaunt fiber]

that way you prevent him from drifting

The angle is really tight

[bright mango]

I play the entire asterius fight around walls

[gaunt fiber]

And sometimes Asterius bugs out, it's not consistent :)

[bright mango]

Just in case he randomly dashes

[eager vortex]

then you get theseus bombed

[gaunt fiber]

I cannot dodge it reliably

[bright mango]

although now I've gotten better at predicting when he's going to charge

[gaunt fiber]

like maybe 70/80%

[bright mango]

same

[eager vortex]

and that's why it needs a rework

it bugs

it's never consistent

[bright mango]

it's consistent tbh

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah sometimes he'll charge in circles

[bright mango]

80% is still good

As long as you play the fight around the walls

You'll be fine

[eager vortex]

I swear em4 is easier to handle than that charge on fo2

[gaunt fiber]

I would not say no to a little adjustement

[bright mango]

tell me you did not say that

[gaunt fiber]

The hitbox is also terrible as some clips showed

[bright mango]

plz

[eager vortex]

I experienced both

[bright mango]

https://clips.twitch.tv/SmokySecretiveSpindleFrankerZ-D9Ay8Z3FzXlt3EUv

[shy gulch]

as someone who has died countless times to the dang bull charging

em4 is still way worse LOL

[bright mango]

Atleast em4 + fo2

Without fo2 maybe the charge is harder

[shy gulch]

oh ye i assumed fo2

[eager vortex]

even if everything is going swell

that charge can kill the run cuz it's just bs

hits really hard too

[bright mango]

You can make it to em4 with the most perfect build, but there is still a 90% chance you die

[eager vortex]

lol the video

he shouldn't have gotten hit there

proof it's bs

he took it pretty well tho I'd be cursing hard

yes okay maybe I'm sleeping on em4

but seriously that charge needs some work

wait that's you ?

pengy

[bright mango]

no thats Latt

[eager vortex]

oh sorry okay

maybe I should turn off fo and put some other heat hmmm

[bright mango]

nonono

the only person that has beaten 50 without fo2 is latt

[eager vortex]

what if I turn off fo and

use em4

[bright mango]

Even worse

Like just don't

[dire steppe]

the me boss?

[eager vortex]

yes the charging jerk

but

isn't em4 manageable without fo

also I am using RI3

[mossy zinc]

@eager vortex you're better off dashing through Asterius to get him to crash into a pillar than dashing through the pillar. He'll have to make a 180 turn and likely crash into it, and if he doesn't, you'll have time to try again.

[bright mango]

Ri3?????

WHAT

da madlad

[eager vortex]

I prefer RI over AP cuz AP just makes me sad

[bright mango]

em4 is still ridiculously hard with FO1

Also with HL5 and thats mandatory for 50

[eager vortex]

yep never touched hl, always been 5

[bright mango]

the farthest I've made it with em4 dad at 50 was end of second phase with chiron

[eager vortex]

he's just way too fast for me to think properly like that

even with best hermes boons

he just catches up

I manage somehow at 40

[mossy zinc]

Make a practice save at the solo fight and just grind that.

[eager vortex]

but at 50 I just get meme'd

[mossy zinc]

With one dash.

[bright mango]

Play the fight around walls

What weapon are you using?

[eager vortex]

eris

[bright mango]

bruh

I mean its not terrible

Its good

But idk for a first 50

[eager vortex]

with hestia I run out of time

[shy gulch]

eris is pretty good yeah lol

[eager vortex]

cuz td3

with eris I am faster but

it's not as good as hestia imo

[mossy zinc]

If you fight him between a pillar and a wall, he charges at you, and you dash right through him, he'll try to do a 180 and crash into either the pillar or the wall every time.

[bright mango]

yeah eris shoudl be RI2 and Ap1

[bright mango]

this is exactly what I do

And it works almost every time

There are some instances when I don't time it right and he hits for 70, but its fairly consistent

[eager vortex]

so I should stop going in the middle of the arena

[mossy zinc]

100%.

[bright mango]

yes

[eager vortex]

also practice save is a good idea

it's a pain in the ass to even get there on 50

[mossy zinc]

Until you're way more experienced and practiced in the fight, the center is off limits.

[bright mango]

I never did a practice save I just got beat up for like 50 runs before learning the fight

[eager vortex]

I know the patterns I just dunno how to avoid that bs charge

but yea I'll do that

stay between

okay so I avoid em4 on 50 ?

I actually had em4 lol, prolly was gonna lose even if I beat asterius

I also had fo2

forgot that I turned on em4 and turned off ap

[mossy zinc]

We don't know if you've learned the fight. Where are your video submissions to the leaderboard? There's no evidence.

[bright mango]

Cheap shot

[gaunt fiber]

Bright blamed me because I love to play in the center

But yeah the pillar thing is 100%

[mossy zinc]

https://tenor.com/view/selena-gomez-idk-shrug-oh-well-i-guess-gif-10213731

[gaunt fiber]

But I must remain in the center for the show

[bright mango]

@mossy zinc I'm going to send you a video of my asterius fight the next time I do it

I can record 30 seconds

Should be enough for asterius

[eager vortex]

oh so I don't have greater reflex on RI3 amazing

going RI2

[bright mango]

[mossy zinc]

I probably play a lot more in the center now than on the edge.

[gaunt fiber]

My GY 50 is center gaming

Not even lost my SD

[bright mango]

And the fight that I will send you will be all in the center

[gaunt fiber]

Nice

[mossy zinc]

I think you're better off doing that eventually because you can better keep track of everything and better hit both. But you gotta start somewhere.

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah

[eager vortex]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/824082017662664748/826162407130398720/aa.png

is this okay for eris

that ap2 is making me sad

[halcyon flame]

why td2 on eris

[eager vortex]

good question

idk

td3 instead of td2, js1 instead of js2 and dc0 instead of dc2

[bright mango]

dood td3

Take td3 especially with eris

[eager vortex]

I keep switching between eris and hestia

so I forgot yea

[bright mango]

i would still take td3 with hestia

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/811259823613673472/822585382217973770/image0.png

I think this is the standard hestia 50 pact

You could do JS1 and CP1

[halcyon flame]

js2

[eager vortex]

js is better than cp ?

[bright mango]

I like oneshotting people

Sue me

With CP you can't one shot asphodel people

[shy gulch]

yeah JS is better than CP

mostly because CP buffs bosses

[unique zephyr]

Just died to dad again in my sword 32 attempt.

[eager vortex]

which aspect

[unique zephyr]

Poseidon

[eager vortex]

did you try neme

[unique zephyr]

Yes a while ago

I don't think I got very far with nem

[mossy zinc]

How much time did you have left?

[unique zephyr]

i think over a minute

when I died

[mossy zinc]

Exactly my point.

Why are you playing so risky when you still had that much time?

Just chill and do a clean fight.

[gaunt fiber]

Because he saw me zoomin with smoldering air sigh

[bright mango]

Were you doing phalanx shot?

[gaunt fiber]

But if you die on dad it's good Bacchus

You'll get it

[patent isle]

i wanted to practice no heal runs with LC4 but i got handed kiss of styx dark + 2x kiss of styx

so i just get back 100% of my hp on death every chamber

[bright mango]

Bacchus if you ever feel bad about losing to dad, look at my 50 fail

It'll make you feel better

[unique zephyr]

When should I use Antos in dad fight

what time second phase should I save it for

same with meg

i did it opening of second phase last time

[bright mango]

Its like a panic button

Optimally second phase

to get both hits

[gaunt fiber]

^

[bright mango]

call gives i frames

[gaunt fiber]

During phase 1 with summons

You'd better avoid

[unique zephyr]

how long are the i frames for call and summon? Much shorter than dashing I would assume

[bright mango]

Its just a get out of jail free card

Use it when you are going to get hit

As soon as you tap the button, you can't get hit

[eager vortex]

got thru tartarus with hestia td3 tho 15 secs left to spare

this means I will run outta time at ely

[bright mango]

thats not great tbh

[eager vortex]

ofc

that's y I was using td2 with hestia lol

[bright mango]

I like having 40+ seconds with td3

[mossy zinc]

I think they're longer, actually.

[bright mango]

yeah its quite long

[mossy zinc]

Nah. Asphodel is fast.

Just get your build going, and you'll be good.

[bright mango]

Are you doing shackle start?

[eager vortex]

I'm making a practice save at asterius

no

[bright mango]

Wait then what?

[eager vortex]

I'm doing aphro start

[bright mango]

Ok thats fine I guess

Just not consistent

Nyaanyaa is proud

[eager vortex]

yes it gave me dash

[mossy zinc]

You don't need to turn on TD at all when you're making a practice save.

[gaunt fiber]

It's fine

[mossy zinc]

You probably don't want to take extra dashes if you're making a practice save.

The worse your conditions in the practice save are, the more comfortable you'll be when you get all that extra stuff in your actual run.

[eager vortex]

wouldn't it be better to practice at 50 heat

[bright mango]

TD doesn't matter for practice saves

Doesn't impact your actual gameplay

[eager vortex]

yea but what if I actually finish the run somehow

I mean it wouldn't be a legit run

but still

[mossy zinc]

Why? You can turn on CP2 DC2 EM3 FO2 HL5 just fine without any of what you need to reach 50 Heat. That's as bad as that fight can get.

[bright mango]

DC doesn't make the fight harder

[eager vortex]

[mossy zinc]

It does. Not by much, but it does.

[bright mango]

sure lol

[mossy zinc]

If you're not planning on doing DC2 in your actual run, you turn that off. If you're not planning on FO at all, you turn that off. Et cetera.

[eager vortex]

dc2 makes aste fight harder, lemme give example cuz I'm a g4m3r

you can't rush to them and use maegera

[mossy zinc]

Then you just get like the most basic version of the build you're hoping for.

[bright mango]

Don't use meg first phase

I always use it second phase

[eager vortex]

but you can hit them both, guaranteed

if you rush and use it

[bright mango]

oh for the heroes fight

ok

[eager vortex]

with dc2 you can't

it'll be a waste

so

yea

[bright mango]

With eris and stuff you can

But yeah its hard

[mossy zinc]

Tap up on d-pad, summon, kill DC2 hearts.

Easy.

[eager vortex]

you'd have to hit them first and they stay together without moving for a very short time

you'll prolly miss asterius

got these experiences from my sub10 runs

inspired by nyaanyaa

[gaunt fiber]

Another soul lost to Aphrodite sigh

[mossy zinc]

It's souls who don't dedicate their very being to Lady Aphrodite that are lost.

[eager vortex]

yeah I get it but there's a slight chance the run will actually be a success so

for example, I made the save but then miraculously beat asterius on first try

I'd probably keep going instead of restarting

also I can't decide if aphro or artemis attack is better on hestia

conflicts

[bright mango]

I like aphrodite better

weak + good pom scaling is really nice

[mossy zinc]

Deadly Strike will net you better DPS from your Attack itself. Heartbreak Strike nets you Weak, Smoldering Air, Sweet Nectar, potentially Heart Rend for Deadly Flourish.

[eager vortex]

imagine if pressure points had good pom scaling

[bright mango]

I feel like with poms and rarity, heartbreak flourish is better

[eager vortex]

[unique zephyr]

I wish sword had more than one good hammer

[mossy zinc]

Why feel when you can look at all the numbers. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kRqJP2m-6w3WsZVQiCsQtgwbeUmV2lghJVJAfQV_nU4/edit?usp=sharing

[mossy zinc]

Your hammers are not why you're losing with Poseidon Aspect.

[eager vortex]

the one that hits for +200% damage with backstab is good

also armor penetrating one

[bright mango]

hammers with pos sword literally dont matter

[unique zephyr]

True, it does make hammer starts irritating though

since I want a cast start ideally

[mossy zinc]

Breaching Slash, Shadow Slash, Double Edge, Piercing Wave, Super Nova, and Double Nova are all fine.

You can still kill Tartarus mobs fine with Cast > Dash-Strike.

Or just Dash-Strikes.

[eager vortex]

looool

I thought I still had sd so I killed myself with lava to replenish hp

guess what

I didn't have sd

11/10

[patent isle]

nooo

[eager vortex]

I'm a true gamer

[patent isle]

rip

[eager vortex]

I had a good laugh, worth it

[bright mango]

Yeah doing that is always hilarious bad to watch

[eager vortex]

should I just ignore chaos gates at ap2 ?

cuz I basically get nothing

and it just becomes harder

[shy gulch]

if they're early enough i gamble on them

but they're usually not worth

[eager vortex]

yes

[mossy zinc]

Base Cast does 75. Dash-Strike does 30 or 45 with Boiling Blood or 53 with Fiery Presence.

Numbskulls: 1 Dash-Strike or 1 Cast
Pest: 1 Cast or 1 Dash-Strike
Brimstone: 1 Cast or 2 Dash-Strikes
Witch: 2 Casts or 1 Cast + 1 Dash-Strike or 2 Dash-Strikes
Wringer: 2 Casts or 1 Cast + 2 Dash-Strikes
Thug: 1 Cast + 2 Dash-Strikes
Lout: 3 Casts or 2 Casts + 2 Dash-Strikes

@unique zephyr there you go.

That's without any hammers or boons.

[bright mango]

nyaanyaa pulling out the math

[patent isle]

what about lout :o

[mossy zinc]

I knew I forgot one.

I think for Louts I typically do Special > Cast > Dash-Strike x2.

[gaunt fiber]

Base cast deals 50

[mossy zinc]

Poseidon has +50% Cast damage.

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah you would not make that mistake

Makes sense

[mossy zinc]

m trying to help him do 32 with Poseidon Aspect.

[solemn pulsar]

fiery presence might help too

shadow presence is meh on cast build

[gaunt fiber]

Does not work on cast

[solemn pulsar]

so hit them first

[bright mango]

I mean if he's doing phalanx, thats easy access to parting

[gaunt fiber]

Meh

[bright mango]

prioritize lightning phalanx imo

Don't aim for parting

[solemn pulsar]

if he's having trouble surviving at 32 heat, I don't think thinking about cast backstabbing is really on the menu

[bright mango]

Its just a nice side benefit

[gaunt fiber]

I even did a show run for Bacchus :(

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, I actually didn't factor in Fiery Presence. I thought some of those numbers were a bit odd. I'll add that lol.

[shy gulch]

fiery doesnt affect cast regardless

[unique zephyr]

It did help, I just need to get good

And I’ll watch it today

[gaunt fiber]

Oh nice

[solemn pulsar]

JUST ATTACK FIRST THEN

[shy gulch]

no.

[solemn pulsar]

or special or smth

[unique zephyr]

Wait fiery is better than shadow for Poseidon?

[gaunt fiber]

[mossy zinc]

Absolutely.

[unique zephyr]

I thought fiery didn’t apply to cast

[solemn pulsar]

you have to play around it

[bright mango]

really?

[solemn pulsar]

intentionally special/attack first

on stuff in tart

where it's useful

[gaunt fiber]

The special is pretty strong

[bright mango]

I like backstabbing with my attacks

[solemn pulsar]

past tartarus it isn't taht useful

[gaunt fiber]

But backstab is better overall I'm sure

[solemn pulsar]

the sword special is really good

[mossy zinc]

Past Tartarus, Shadow/Fiery doesn't really matter, anyway.

[solemn pulsar]

^^^

[gaunt fiber]

Parting shot is our goal remember

[solemn pulsar]

no

it shouldn't be

[gaunt fiber]

Heathen

[solar maple]

I ran fiery for pos 50 but it really doesn't matter much imo

[solemn pulsar]

parting shot is additional execution challenge

man's just trying to survive

[bright mango]

I think fiery really only matters for hestia

[solemn pulsar]

beowulf needs fiery in tart

helps it a lot

[gaunt fiber]

Bacchus is very capable of surviving

[solemn pulsar]

he keeps dying tho

[gaunt fiber]

He reached Dad

[mossy zinc]

^

[bright mango]

for like witches and brimstones and stuff

[solar maple]

cp2 is so sad with beo fiery because dash attack doesn't one shot the laser stones 😦

[gaunt fiber]

Everyone does

[solemn pulsar]

sword special: 50 base damage + fiery presence 37.5 + one god FF 2.5 = 90 damage

[bright mango]

700+ attempts at like 140 hrs

I died a lot

[mossy zinc]

Mostly people only die once.

[solemn pulsar]

that one shots a lot

[gaunt fiber]

Well I hope I won't die more than once

[mossy zinc]

Depends. Is your name Astaos?

[gaunt fiber]

Yup

[mossy zinc]

I've got bad news for you, then.

And not the boon kind.

[gaunt fiber]

[gaunt fiber]

Rip

[bright mango]

Bu..buuu. I though astaos was imperdable

Is my life a lie?????

[gaunt fiber]

I am don't worry

[bright mango]

ok phew

[mossy zinc]

https://tenor.com/view/nod-anime-yes-gif-15254753

Where is my thumbnail.

Boo.

[solemn pulsar]

just FYI fiery presence sword special + 1 default cast on poseidon sword one shots any unarmored enemy in tartarus except louts

[patent isle]

are 5-sacks possible on TD3

do you just perish at that point

[bright mango]

Its possible

Definitely

at like 50+ heat it kinda sucks

But below like 45 and stuff its fine I guess

[patent isle]

[mossy zinc]

At 32, you can for sure clear TD3 5-sack every time. At 40, I would think, too.

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah, time really suffers with RI I'd say

[eager vortex]

[mossy zinc]

Even if the aspect was somehow too bad for the speed, you could just do a Cast build on everything and make it in time.

[eager vortex]

no way I'm not giving up on td3 if I can't get a max. 3 sack

if you get a 5 sack and still manage to finish at td3

that's pretty great

well ... if heatless not really tho

32+ heat

[solar maple]

my fist 40 heat clear was a 5 sack

with td3

it's not a lost cause

[mossy zinc]

If you can do sub 10 any heat, you can do TD3 5-sack at 32 with a good pact.

Just don't die lol.

[solar maple]

I've had several 50 heat 4 sack clears with beo

one with zeus cast lol

[eager vortex]

guess it comes down to your build

[solar maple]

it's all about risk managment: if your build is strong enough to clear, it can be worth it to try to go extra fast to budget time for a 4 sack

[eager vortex]

whether if you can kill hades fast

with good dps

[solar maple]

build, room luck, and (this one is big) how efficiently you play

all tie into it

[mossy zinc]

Your build shouldn't be any different than at any heat.

At 32.

[eager vortex]

I got two 5-sacks at 32+ and I ran out of time during hades lol

not 32+

32 actually

then I went td2

[mossy zinc]

That's probably from a lack of experience dealing with BP2 and stuff. Also don't know what your pact was.

My pact is just streamlined for speed.

HL5 LC4 EM2 BP2 MM FO2 HS TD3.

I always see people who aren't used to BP2 waste waaay too much time with Cloners, for example.

Cloner rooms should be faster than normal elites.

A lot.

[eager vortex]

bp2 is okay

except the speedy witches

also the ones that buff enemies with dc

[mossy zinc]

They still die just as fast.

[eager vortex]

I don't like that too

[mossy zinc]

And Speeder raises their difficulty rating, so you'll have fewer enemies.

[eager vortex]

so bp2 is actually good for 32 speedrun then

[mossy zinc]

Wait no, just Cloner and Saviors.

[eager vortex]

iunno I never did 32 speedrun