#h1-high-heat-strategies

1 messages · Page 285 of 1

true fable
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its so much damage

gaunt fiber
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tbh I made it to dad with beo and I feel like I really did not deserve that

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Like bossing is cheat

bronze viper
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Also I had to not use my bountiful riches. That run had Curse of Nausea + Dio's Aid, Merciful End with Divine Dash + Curse of Agony, 2 DDs, and Patty

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And like 350 health or something lol

solar maple
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ME beo lol

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I don't think I've ever gotten ME in a beo high heat run

true fable
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i have

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very sad

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i think i died to lernie

bronze viper
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I had epic Curse of Agony + epic Impending Doom. ME on Charged Shot Beo not great, but it was free lol

true fable
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i didnt even have phalanx flare or divine dash

edgy arrow
unique zephyr
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Just beat Lernie, taking a break now

edgy arrow
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"ME is good so it must be good"

unique zephyr
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gonna see how Elysium goes when I'm done with the break

shy plinth
dire steppe
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when are we gonna see 64 heat routed beo

unique zephyr
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Heroic Artemis attack from Eurydice is pog

shy plinth
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"holy shield, curse of vengeance, and mood is a sick combo with ME"

edgy arrow
unique zephyr
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I had only 3 boons when I went to Eurydice and 2 I wanted to rarity up

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so it wasn't much of a gamble

dire steppe
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wdym "?"

edgy arrow
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its a question mark

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means i'm asking a question

dire steppe
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im saying routed beo 64 when

bronze viper
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I don't understand. But you can't take CF0 if you have 64 heat

mossy zinc
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When you do it.

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Stop asking questions and get to work. squirtnya

dire steppe
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you route enough boons

solar maple
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I don't know how to route

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and I would need some crazy boons lol

bronze viper
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I thought it was a war crime to not take CF0 on Beo

edgy arrow
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routers are making routes for other people now tho

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idk if they'd do a beo one

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but its not out of the question

solar maple
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yeah but I wouldn't want them to make me a beo one only for me not to be able to clear it lol

edgy arrow
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i asked cgull and kane about it recently and they didn't seem entirely opposed to the idea

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that's fair haha

bronze viper
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I think someone probably needs to demonstrate the consistence and capacity to use the route though lol

edgy arrow
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64 is a lot

mossy zinc
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“Be the routed beo 64 you want to see in the world.”—Beowulf, Iliad

edgy arrow
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if you can't clear it then no one can with beo rn tho

solar maple
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I mean maybe I could with a great route

bronze viper
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Blame the router not the route.

solar maple
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beo does have the advantage that with a crazy build 1 hp should be enough for em4

mossy zinc
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I've learned all about blaming the router in online fighting games.

gaunt fiber
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Like charged flight/dread flight, heartrend and such?

solar maple
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I would do a cast build

eternal hare
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if the zeus route can pull cold fusion and splitting bolt I'm sure a beo route can pull mirage shot and big pom cast

gaunt fiber
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Oh ok

solar maple
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chaos egg start with a +stone early

gaunt fiber
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Interesting

edgy arrow
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routed it'd be a cast build for sure

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since you can get extra casts

gaunt fiber
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Cast build for beo

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you weirdos

edgy arrow
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fully loaded route lmao

bronze viper
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That would imply there's a legal configuration of rooms that can yield Fully Loaded

edgy arrow
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rock into EM4 with like 5 casts on RI4

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tyler actually got fully loaded unseeded on like his third 50 attempt apparently

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so its theoretically possible

solar maple
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it is possible

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or is it

edgy arrow
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idk

solar maple
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cries in 2 fully loadeds on my main save

edgy arrow
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needs more evidence tbh

bronze viper
edgy arrow
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could've been an isolated incident

gaunt fiber
solar maple
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schad is streaming btw

edgy arrow
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its tragic

gaunt fiber
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Yeah Schad came back

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all me

edgy arrow
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chamber 22 suicide

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he forgot he'd lost his SD

gaunt fiber
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this is more than tragic

solar maple
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ok I thought about it more and I think routed 64 would be possible for me to do. Just extremely hard, and I would have to actually learn how to play routed

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and get a route

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idk if I would have the determination tbh

edgy arrow
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yeah i think you could do it

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it might just take some time

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and totally fair if you don't want to grind it out

solar maple
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64 is insanely hard, even with a route

edgy arrow
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indeed

solar maple
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and with beo all the routed stuff in tart basically just catches you up to a normal run with low RI

dire steppe
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If it’s hard either way might as well do unseeded right

solar maple
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the highest I would ever try on beo is 60

edgy arrow
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that's still absurdly high lmao

solar maple
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and even that is snow burst resets in tart with AP2

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so pure pain

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can't even get it boon 1

edgy arrow
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yeah how do you even do that

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i guess you just force dem and hope for a second one

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yeah that's rough

solar maple
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honestly you probably have to start mom pom and get cast -> snow burst

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to keep up with timer on DC2

edgy arrow
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so natural decent cast into natural snow burst

solar maple
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or shackle

edgy arrow
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reset hell in other words

solar maple
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yep

edgy arrow
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oof yeah

true fable
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im down to try and route it

edgy arrow
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that's 60 for you ig lol

true fable
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im gonna do my best to help mr gull with his rama project

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so after that i could be down

solar maple
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64 I would want chaos egg start with extra cast

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snow burst early

true fable
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you have weird requests

dire steppe
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what weapons are most likely to get 64 routed

true fable
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dio beo or infernal

dire steppe
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after rama

solar maple
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it's 64 lol

true fable
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ah

solar maple
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1 cast infernal

true fable
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im stupid

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pain

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we can talk if/when this thing materializes

dire steppe
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the rama route build is probably going to be insane

solar maple
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on 64 heat imo zeus > rama are the best 2 weaponns

dire steppe
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like 4 chaos boons

true fable
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the rama route is just gonna be a ton of dash strike boons lol

solar maple
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after that everything sucks

true fable
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although money limits how much chaos you can get

mossy zinc
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Oh yeah, you wouldn't know the answer to that.

dire steppe
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i don’t think Ix is that expensive

true fable
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it's 99

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you also cant do the anyheat thing where you roll the wells 6 times for 10 billion ix for obvi reasons

solar maple
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ix is pretty expensive

gaunt fiber
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Be kind.

solar maple
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I do buy ix on high heat though a decent amount

mossy zinc
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I guess you just gotta route in Erebus Obol chambers everywhere between Chaos Gates.

dire steppe
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i thought it was called ix because it only costs 9 gold

solar maple
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honestly routing in tart trials would be worth it

dire steppe
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unironically route in charon tbh

solemn pulsar
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Time is tight in tart

dire steppe
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i mean elysium charon

solemn pulsar
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CP2 Charon is not a short fight

dire steppe
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so you have large build

solemn pulsar
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Ah

gaunt fiber
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You could delete Ely Charon but there's like, no point

solemn pulsar
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CP2 charon is not a short fight

dire steppe
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more moneys

true fable
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just route in ocean's bounty at that point lol

dire steppe
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route in sunken treasure smh

solar maple
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charon route LOL

solemn pulsar
true fable
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in aspho or ely?

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is it really that tight?

solemn pulsar
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Chaos in elysium would forfeit a defensive keepsake

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More than one in a biome requires an ixion

dire steppe
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What if you just eat the 22 chaos damage and still take acorn elysium

solar maple
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you can get 2x natural chaos in tart right?

dire steppe
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Route for minimum chaos dmg LMFAO

solar maple
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with c1 chaos and 1 and the end

solemn pulsar
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It’s very unlikely

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And requires a chamber 12 combat

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Or 11

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Which you’ll be skipping in 64

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Look I’m 100% confident tail could do it with no chaos boons

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I’ll work in 2

dire steppe
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Does routing affect how much chaos bites you

solemn pulsar
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You can’t afford health loss at 64

solar maple
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tail will fall off route in asphodel and stlil clear LOL

solemn pulsar
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And no it’s a set amount per biome

dire steppe
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Oh i see

solemn pulsar
eternal hare
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just give him the one good hammer at the start and he's golden

dire steppe
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Mfw summon 400 times for chaos to appear, deal only 20 damage, and give you the right ap2 boon on epic

solemn pulsar
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Yeah no gods pride makes the epic boon thing a lot harder

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And get a good curse

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And AP2

solar maple
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at least with beo you don't need epic chaos

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just common +cast

solemn pulsar
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Routing isn’t a magic button, still has limits

dire steppe
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Oh right you also need to get the hidden rooms button

solar maple
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and you need the curse to be not so bad

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doesn't need to be hidden chambers

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damage from special would be fine on beo for example

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🙂

solemn pulsar
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Yeah but not slippery

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Also because single increments are harder on Beowulf (can’t just cast once easily) probably going to be a lot more summons

true fable
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yee

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wait

solemn pulsar
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Beowulf is doable

true fable
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do the single casts not still call rng with infernal

solemn pulsar
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I mean it might

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But

true fable
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time

solemn pulsar
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Also explosion

true fable
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byebye shades

solar maple
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pots monkaS

solemn pulsar
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Pots yeah...

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Beo is doable

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Again I’m gonna try to make the beginning of the Rama route more of a tutorial

true fable
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that'd be nice

solemn pulsar
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So others can hop onto it

true fable
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yeah just ping me whenever you do it

solemn pulsar
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I can do it with bright so he can ask questions and stuff

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Sometime next week probs

solar maple
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yeah that does sound fun

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maybe I'll try to route for myself

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seems like a fun project

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then noone will make fun of my beo builds 😦

true fable
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hmm

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who makes fun of zeus cast

solemn pulsar
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It’s not super difficult. You could probably pick up a lot by watching my streams, though they’re not direct

dire steppe
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Do you ever route in caustic

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For the memes

solar maple
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I haven't even installed the boon selector mod lol

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I really haven't looked into mod stuff

solemn pulsar
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I’ve made literal 1 route ever sooo

true fable
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its very easy

gaunt fiber
solar maple
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it means manips are harder

solemn pulsar
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Yeah normally you go through one at a time, find the offset, then figure out the manips, since summon increments by 2, casting by 1. If you can’t cast it limits the offsets you can access by 50%, so it will take twice as long to find what you want, and the manip to get it, on average ofc

gaunt fiber
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Oh yeah I get it

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you're less accurate so you have to do more stuff

solemn pulsar
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Yep

dire steppe
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less accurate but more perdable

shy plinth
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How do you figure out tart midshop

solar maple
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yeah things like that are a big part of why I haven't tried to route for myself

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idk how all that witchcraft works

solemn pulsar
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consistent timing, if you're lucky you get to buy a boon

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i've been trying out the any heat route and once I got midshop once i haven't missed it

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you figure it out by standing near the door and checking the reward until you see one you want

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then spend an hour desperately trying to find what timing gets you that room

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you have to sync up with music cues usually

solar maple
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there is a pretty spicy run happening in schad's stream 👀

solemn pulsar
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it's over

solar maple
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what keepsake do you use in aspho on hestia if you already have an attack boon?

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and athena in pool

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just acorn?

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(AP2)

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or tooth ig

unique zephyr
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Finally beat Elysium for Zag bow 32! Thanks Hyper Sprint + Rush Delivery (common but still good)

shy gulch
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i just take tooth or acorn @solar maple

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safety good

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u could do skull earring if ur feelin ballsy

unique zephyr
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I BEAT ZAG BOW 32 HEAT!

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WHOOO

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4 weapons to go

neat sonnet
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congrats!

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that was my second 32 clear too

unique zephyr
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wish I could post the victory screen here but it's in victory boasting

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I'm unbelievably happy holy crap

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so proud of myself

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I'm so proud of how much I've improved lately!

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Both of my victories I felt insanely lucky but I know it’s my personal improvement too, especially because I was scared of tight deadline 3 and forced overtime 2

mossy zinc
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@unique zephyr congratulations! dusa

unique zephyr
mossy zinc
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@solar maple also, I still think Owl Pendant is a good choice for Asphodel if she's already in your pool because you're not guaranteed to see a boon from her without it.

fallow swan
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Is 32 the highest possible heat ? I'm only clearing low heat for now so just wondering

solar maple
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with AP2 it just doesnn't feel worth it idk

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32 is not the highest

earnest helm
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64 is max but it's borderline impossible in normal runs

mossy zinc
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You're more likely to see more boons from her with the Owl Pendant, which means better odds for getting DDs.

earnest helm
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60 is the current WR I believe

solar maple
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60 is the unseeded wr yes

earnest helm
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In normal/unseeded runs that is

mossy zinc
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Well, that depends on whether you want consistency or high-roll for that run where you get all the things you want, I guess. Owl Pendant gives you a better shot at that run where you get the DDs you want from her.

solar maple
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Baj recently cleared a routed 64 heat run

mossy zinc
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Skull Earring will give you more time through better DPS.

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Acorn if you're worried about Lernie at all, which imo you shouldn't be unless your max HP is very low going into Asphodel.

solar maple
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yes but I am very bad at hestia

north dove
solar maple
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ouch

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do I see a cursed slash there 👀

mossy zinc
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Hmmm. If you already need a Lucky Tooth revive in Asphodel, you won't have it for Elysium. That's a problem. That run is probably gonna suck anyway. I'd rather go for value with Skull Earring for time or Coin Purse for Obols, personally. Maybe Pom Blossom, actually. Should get 2 poms out of that in Asphodel, I think.

north dove
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can I outheal the TD damage with cursed slash? zaglol

wanton plover
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wow ares dash

solar maple
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yeah I think skull earring makes sense

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or purse

mossy zinc
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Or do you get 3 from Asphodel to Elysium? I've never bothered to keep count.

solar maple
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pom is pretty mediocre in asphodel

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since there are so few rooms

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you get 1-2

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died to asterius in elysium anyway

mossy zinc
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1-2 can be a lot more value than 150 Obols.

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You can't even afford a single CF2 Pom for that.

solar maple
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yeah but you don't buy poms on hestia

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and my attack already had a pom in it

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another pom would be like 6% damage

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and that's if it hits

solemn pulsar
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retrash is getting BONKED recently

solar maple
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yeah he really is 😦

north dove
mossy zinc
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Pom Blossom value obviously depends on what boons you have.

shy gulch
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rip retrash

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the sacks rly hate u huh

solar maple
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gave up on hestia for now

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took it easy with some 50 heat ares cast beo

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played em4 pretty bad so I needed the lucky DD I found

true fable
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why pseudo

solar maple
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hestia too hard

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ares cast beo too easy

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alright I'll try icy flare next

shy gulch
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I do not understand pseudo

solar maple
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I had 6 boons and 175 hp going into the fury fight

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how do you play other weapons

vital grove
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You should try hera

wind bough
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forgive my ignorance

what does pseudo mean

vital grove
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You can't block with it, but it's like having charged shot hammer all the time.

solar maple
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about what @wind bough

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I'm bad at hera

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very bad

wind bough
solar maple
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I am pseudo

vital grove
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where pseudo

wanton plover
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pseudo is a popular regular here

vital grove
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you were supposed to write 'what pseudo'

wind bough
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Oh

wanton plover
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what soodo

wind bough
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I didnt see the username lmao

vital grove
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:)

wanton plover
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(:

solar maple
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this icy flare run is going well

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now that I have snow burst

vital grove
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Oh put Zeus on attack and get cold fusion then press block to win

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Sounds like a fun time

solar maple
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probably a bit slow for TD3

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I have 900 gold right now LOL

vital grove
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Time to buy a diamond for the flex

solar maple
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alright heroes down

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no athena so em4 might be scary

unique zephyr
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My next 32 attempt will either be dem fists or beo shield probably

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I don’t want to think about sword right now

wanton plover
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kekw

solar maple
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yeah I died to dad

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I really need to learn how to use charged shot

unique zephyr
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Pseudo since you’re here 32 beo tips?

solar maple
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for pact or gameplay?

unique zephyr
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Why is CF0 preferred on Beo

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Both

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Mainly gameplay tho

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I liked beo on low heat

solar maple
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CF0 is preferred because beo is a cast weapon, and so wants lots of poms, as well as boons

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because fo that, you want to buy most of the stuff in shops

unique zephyr
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Ah ok, I think I’ll use a standard pact then with CF0, my zag bow 32 was CF0

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What casts to use and gameplay tips?

solar maple
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I like poseidon cast because of the huge aoe

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you usually try to get artemis attack into mirage shot

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athena is nice as always for DDs/deflect safety

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and demeter has snow burst, which is really good

unique zephyr
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How does mirage shot work on beo

solar maple
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same way as other weapons

shy plinth
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Honestly I prefer CF0 on everything now

solar maple
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adds another smaller cast to your casts

shy plinth
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Buying boons is broken

solar maple
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CF0 is good

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CF is a heat I start taking at around 40 on most weapons

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the exeptions being the weapons that don't really scale with boons

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like hades spear

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for gameplay with beo, remember that you can load your casts in the middle of a rush

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which makes it much more fuid

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to set up a bull rush, it is generally better to use dash strikes

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they are faster, safer, and let you reposition

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when enemies are spawning, you want to try to be completely to the side of the group, then bull rush in to clear

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avoid being surrounded whenever possible

shy plinth
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furiously takes notes

solar maple
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casts take a bit longer to land and pick up than it can first seem

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don't just stand there waiting to get your casts back while vulnerable. Either wait for them to land and pick them up with the dash strike before a bull rush, pick them up with a double dash to I frame danger, or use a no cast bull rush to pick them up

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a more advanced move is to bull rush through casts lying on the ground, then loading them before the rush is over

unique zephyr
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Do I need chaos for extra casts with infernal

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I guess cast damage is also good

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You mentioned beo is good vs bosses why is that

north dove
wanton plover
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darn again

quartz mantle
wanton plover
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would you ever consider uploading runs even if they lost

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id watch

quartz mantle
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Also did you get cursed and dash nova from anvil?

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Cause that’s big sad moment

unique zephyr
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Is curse of drowning good or bad on beo? Not going to aim for it but if I happen to see it I mean

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It does disable mirage shot tho

quartz mantle
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Can you even get it on beo?

unique zephyr
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I don’t know how it works on beo is the thing (curse of drowning)

quartz mantle
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I’ve never seen it

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But also I doubt it’s better than a 30% damage increase which is what Mirage is

solar maple
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CoD is quite bad on beo

unique zephyr
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I’m not too familiar with Poseidon’s boons is razor shoals good for anything other than proccing PS

north dove
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alright maybe today is just an unlucky day... quadruple 4-sack in a row

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I give up

unique zephyr
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I am still not quite sure what rupture does

solar maple
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razor shoals is a pretty good boon

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noone knows what rupture does

quartz mantle
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It damaged enemies if they move

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And enemies tend to move

solar maple
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it's one of the great mysteries of hades

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I'm only half joking

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I have no idea how the damage calculation for it is done

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and I don't think anyone really does

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but it is pretty good

unique zephyr
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What makes it good

quartz mantle
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Damage

solar maple
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it does pretty good damage

north dove
quartz mantle
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God damn

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The game just really doesn’t want you to win

unique zephyr
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Is mirage shot enough to go God’s legacy or is pride better

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For beo

solar maple
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either is fine

quartz mantle
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I personally run pride all the time but a case could be made for either

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Pride gives you a better chance of purple cast, while also helping with other boons

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But getting mirage early is helpful for clearing Elysium/late Asphodel encounters

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If you want numbers a purple flood flare vs a common flood flare is 84 vs 60 at level 1

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Which is a 40% damage boost

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But there’s also pom scaling and idk exactly how that works with the different rarities

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Anyways I just pulled these numbers off of the wiki and out of my ass so if anyone who’s more knowledgeable wants to correct me on anything please do

solar maple
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poms do not care about rarity

short sedge
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So im breaking into the realm of high heat. trying 32 right now running hestia because its my favorite aspect and ive heard its pretty good at high heat. obviously decided no damage control as thats anti hestia, but little did I know benefits package would do this

shy plinth
short sedge
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wait it wont let me put the image

shy plinth
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Pom scaling is here for 1.0

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There's an updated version I think

short sedge
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okay well i cant put the image but basically tons of wimpy enemies have 5 DC hearts from benefits package. is the meta to just not take BP with hestia? or am i missing something here

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first time ive actually played with BP

solar maple
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with hestia you can use the gun as a normal rail to clear savior enemies

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but yes they can be very annoying

shy plinth
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Ah yeah that one @solar maple

quartz mantle
short sedge
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ah yes

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anyway yeah

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thats a lot of DC hearts lmao

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and the room before this was the same and a trial

shy plinth
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Savior speeder skulls are unpleasant

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They spawn the dc hearts so fast

short sedge
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so do i just need to take out one enemy thats doing this and itll stop?

unique zephyr
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What do the numbers for Pom value and Pom decay mean on the spread sheet

quartz mantle
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Yea it can be genuinely terrifying

unique zephyr
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And what does format mean

quartz mantle
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Usually you just want to forgo the hestia gimmick for a bit and shoot them until you can get a decent amount of them dead

short sedge
#

yeah i eventually started doing that. still took forever

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clusterbomb would be very nice here

quartz mantle
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Other than the occasional savior speeder enemies Hestia works really well in high heat

short sedge
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i guess i just had bad luck. 3 rooms in tartarus had them

unique zephyr
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Hestia was my first 32 clear

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Bad BP combos happen

quartz mantle
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Ouch that is really unlucky

north dove
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but sure I might upload it eventually

unique zephyr
solar maple
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Value = %of common bonus that first pom gives

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Decay is how much weaker each successive pom is

unique zephyr
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Ah ok thanks!

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When do poms stop decaying? Never or is there a minimum

solar maple
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There is a min

unique zephyr
#

When does it reach the min or does it say what the min is somewhere

#

Wiki says it reaches min at level 6 usually but wiki has been wrong about a lot of things

bronze viper
#

Yeah that's pretty wrong. It's typically at level 3 or 4

#

Occasionally 2, like Support Fire.

#

Level 2 is min for every non Dio's Aid Hangover boon as well.

#

Actually I have no idea how Peer Pressure scales lol.

unique zephyr
#

So it turns out the benefit of learning FO2 is it makes it much easier to not take CF on 32 heat

#

I did CF0 for my zag bow 32 and everything felt so cheap

#

Being able to actually buy stuff at shops is nice

#

My Eris 32 was FO0 but CF2 and I don’t think I could buy anything

edgy arrow
#

surely pressure points just goes up by 1% per pom

#

unless it starts doing fractions after a while lol

bronze viper
#

I believe it floors at 0.5%? Who poms PP lol

edgy arrow
#

lol

#

i’m glad i’ve never been forced into the situation where i had to learn that

true fable
#

i pom pp sometimes

#

😦

edgy arrow
#

same

#

AP gonna AP

true fable
#

sometimes theres just nothing better either

edgy arrow
#

i mean, yeah that’s true

#

especially with AP

#

idk how many poms you’ve gotta put into it before it goes below +1% tho

#

i’ve definitely put in 2-3 before

solar maple
#

pretty sure it's always just 1%

#

though I guess I haven't gotten it to an absurd level

#

I save that for double strike

true fable
#

im pretty sure this has been tested

#

we used level 50 PP to test whether crit chance was additive

#

or something like that

#

not level 50 that's too low

honest kernel
#

i never want to see 2 elite strongbows at hades again

gaunt fiber
#

It's tough yeah. You really have to play around the rocks

wind bough
#

||Wow really no f word allowed in here? Lmao okay||

Yeah screw hades summons. Theyre far harder than anything else in the fight if you ask me

worn current
wind bough
#

its still just the fu word

#

public discords of major fanbase allow these

#

...not the f word as in the homophobic slur i mean, the other one lol

worn current
#

Just read your own words and think about that for a second.

gaunt fiber
#

It's not high heat.

honest kernel
#

I swear in other gaming discords all the timr but its not hard to find other expressions

#

anyway hades summons are the bane of acorn yeah

#

chairots are also shadefear

#

dont let me get started on elite butterflyballs

wind bough
#

i need to unlock the good summons for during the hades battle

#

so i can kill the armored elite big bois more easily

main wasp
#

Made it up to Learnie this time at H32

#

Excalibur feels good currently

drowsy perch
#

dude the hades summons that make hades impervious are so annoying

vital grove
#

I don't even take CF on 40

#

80% is so damn much on everything

wind bough
#

do you guys think this looks good?

#

i am going to run with aspect of rama, i just want it easy

bright mango
#

What heat is that?

wind bough
#

32

bright mango
#

Ok

#

Um dont take em4

wind bough
#

em4 seems easy if i get the good desired build

bright mango
#

Put more in TD if I'm being honest

wind bough
#

4 is a lot

bright mango
#

If you don't want to take LC4 you can put some into TD3 and FO2

#

But if em4 works, by all means take it

celest grail
#

they have js3 on, td3 is going to be hard lol

bright mango
#

oh yeah

#

And max CP

#

Jeez

honest kernel
#

TD2 should be fine. Take out CP2 for it

celest grail
#

but atleast take td2 and UC + HL2 over em4

bright mango
#

UC is pretty much free

celest grail
#

uc is a very easy pact for 2 heat

honest kernel
#

EM4 or CP2 needs to go for sure

celest grail
#

you just need to remember to have boons to sell

bright mango
#

You can look at the pinned guide for clearing 32 heat

#

It's very helpful

#

Schad also has a video explaining it

honest kernel
#

you can take underworld customs easily I think

bright mango
#

Ok so my plan for practicing 50 is to take all the hard pacts with TD2 and EM4 and get extremely consistent with those. Then for 50(It'll probably end up being 51) I'll add on RI2 on AP?

#

Does that sound good

#

So far, I've just made it to Lernie

mossy zinc
#

Practice boss fights.

bronze viper
#

Don't kill yourself with EM4 if it's not working out lol

bright mango
#

idk how else to do 50

#

TD3 makes up 3 heat

#

But em4 is 4

bronze viper
#

I don't plan to touch EM4 until 57 with non-beo aspects lmao

wintry berry
#

TD3 + JS/CP/DC and no EM4

bright mango
#

So rn I have all the pacts selected except td3 and RI

#

It adds up to 45

bronze viper
#

You need RI at 50 unless you're Beo

bright mango
#

Yeah I'm doing rama

#

Does someone have a good 50 pact for rama?

bronze viper
#

Yeah, just get used to RI2 lol, it's your life now :3

wintry berry
#

RI2 is ok

mossy zinc
#

Oh yeah, practice boss fights with one dash. That'll be good training.

bright mango
#

In nyaanyaa's world RI3 is free

bronze viper
bright mango
#

Exactly

#

I dont have hell mode

#

So I'll be one heat short

mossy zinc
#

You have Hell mode. You just need to select it when you start a new profile.

bronze viper
#

Shackle AP2, cut some CP

bright mango
bronze viper
#

Rama is the 2nd best Shackle aspect behind Hestia

bright mango
#

Ok

#

The only problem is hammers

bronze viper
#

At CP0 you can get Repulse Shot and Piercing Volley and be A-OK

bright mango
#

ok

bronze viper
#

Rama also has like 5 good hammers, it's pretty likely you'll get one in a run

bright mango
#

But for now I'm just going to focus on getting consistent with the hard pacts

mossy zinc
#

Sure, but that's a choice. You said you didn't have Hell mode. That was a lie. shadeohboy

bright mango
wintry berry
#

There's a hell mode save file with all aspects maxed at speedrundotcom

bronze viper
#

For Shackle, the start that Tailesque likes, but I'm still 50/50 on is starting Artemis, going for the 2/4 reset for Hunter Dash or Deadly Strike, play Tartarus out, then depending on your boons, take Shackle in Asphodel

#

For less experienced players... it's asking a LOT to not have the chance for Divine Dash or a defensive keepsake.

bright mango
#

Ok now I'm seriously considering getting this game on my computer

wintry berry
#

I forgot that you're a switch player

bright mango
#

Cries on the inside

bronze viper
#

lmfao

#

Also fairly certain I like Infernal Soul over Stygian with AP2. It's nice to have the burst ready, and your damage gets better if you BB multiple targets

#

But I only started playing around with that recently

solemn pulsar
#

just makes hermes even less likely to give you what you want hehe

#

but at AP2 you're not expecting good hermes anyway

bronze viper
#

Yeah I've given up with that on Ap2

solemn pulsar
#

so

#

might be the move

bronze viper
#

Hermes is a lie

solemn pulsar
#

"i heard you wanted 10% swift strike boss"

bright mango
#

I'm considering doing beo for 50

bronze viper
#

Do that

#

It's like SOOOOOOOOOOO much easier omg

wintry berry
#

That's fine

bright mango
#

It deals well with em4

solemn pulsar
#

just get perfect RNG and sub 15 like me 8)

bright mango
#

It has huge AOE so it deals well with JS and stuff

#

So I'll give it a shot

bronze viper
#

Actually, idk, I technically haven't actually finished Beo 50 so who am I to say. Hestia was the Bestia in practice for me.

solemn pulsar
#

10% extra damage though 😮 hard labor 5.5

bronze viper
#

sees Dad at 0 HP 5 times. cries

bright mango
#

I'll just take the pact that I currently use and add AP1 and TD3

#

That would equal 51

#

And then remove CP2

bronze viper
#

BeoSquad will come to your house and beat you up if you have CF

bright mango
#

How tf do I not take it

#

I would have to take RI

bronze viper
#

Lmao great question

#

(I take it, don't tell anyone)

solemn pulsar
#

CF is fine with RI0 and AP1

bright mango
#

Yeah thats what I would use

solemn pulsar
#

having 4 rerolls really frees you up

bright mango
#

Ok beo time

solemn pulsar
#

and dark foresight will get you more boons over the course of the run than CF0 would have, most likely IMO

bright mango
#

I feel like doing your first 50 heat is like your rite of passage here

edgy arrow
#

if it’s a choice between CP2 and CF2 i’d take CP2 honestly

#

beo go fast

bright mango
#

But CF2 adds more heat than CP2

bronze viper
#

wat

edgy arrow
#

?

bright mango
#

Wait it doesnt

#

Im dum

edgy arrow
#

they’re both 1 heat per rank

bright mango
#

Oh lol

#

Yeah then I'll take CP2 and CF1

bronze viper
#

CP being 1 heat though is kind of criminal tbf

bright mango
#

CF annoys me so much

bright mango
edgy arrow
#

same is true for CF

bronze viper
#

It effectively doubles the HP of so many enemies while just making bosses take so much longer

edgy arrow
#

heat prices are kinda all arbitrary tho so it doesn’t really matter

bronze viper
#

"Effectively" meaning you need 2 hits instead of 1

#

Lol, idk, in the non-beo world CF just doesn't really even matter. Maybe with RI2, but even then. eh?

edgy arrow
#

are you sure tho

#

like, weapons like hestia taken aside

#

boons are good

bronze viper
#

I am sure with RI0, but I can see an argument with RI2

#

You get ten trillion boons for just playing with Dark Foresight lol

#

CF2 UC Ri2 is definitely a real thing

#

But that's a 3 pact interaction

agile harness
#

I find it funny that the first guide I read for this gamelisted CF as beginner heat

honest kernel
#

it doesnt change much on its own so it makes sense for that

#

but combined with other pacts it gets hellish

solemn pulsar
#

CF is not that bad below 25 heat

#

most beginner guides will focus on 16 heat i imagine

edgy arrow
#

yeah CF is beginner heat

#

lots of pacts aren’t too bad by themselves/without too much other stuff

edgy arrow
#

i’m not saying i think CF2 should be avoided like the no go pacts (only on beo would i take CP over it, for example) i’m just not sure whether i agree that it doesn’t have a noticeable impact

quartz mantle
#

Yea I can't imagine you're throwing RI2 on anything that doesn't already have CF2

edgy arrow
#

idk it’s possible beo has just warped my brain ofc

bronze viper
#

CF0's best argument is LC0 RI0

edgy arrow
#

sure

#

obviously CF is in 90% of (non beo) pacts at 32+

#

i just think CF2 for 2 heat is a bad deal

#

there are just worse deals

bronze viper
#

Maybe. I think UC is a decent comparison. You get -3 boons per run with UC for 2 heat, which is very close to irrelevant if you have Dark Foresight. LIkewise, with DF, the +x boons and hearts you get from CF0 matter less since you have so much at base

quartz mantle
#

CF2 denying you the ability to buy 1 boon per region would put it on equal playing field with UC give or take some specific situations

solemn pulsar
#

affects well items too

agile harness
#

UC at least lets you get rid of a boon you don't particularly want.

quartz mantle
#

It's not like it gives you the option to remove a boon

#

you've always been able to do that

agile harness
#

I meant lets you choose which boon to get rid of

#

sorry im still waking up

quartz mantle
#

But yea at best CF2 is on par with UC and at worst it's much worse

agile harness
#

LC4 is not that bad actually. Stubborn Defiance heals just enough to get through the encounter.

edgy arrow
#

CF2 is always much worse than UC imo

#

that’s kinda what i’m talking about

#

although UC is maybe the “best” heat deal there is, so maybe that’s not a fair comparison

quartz mantle
#

I like UC personally

#

as a mechanic

#

makes gameplay more fun

edgy arrow
#

yeah same

agile harness
#

I'd sooner take FO2 over CF2.

quartz mantle
#

I've been taking FO2 over CF2 for a while now

edgy arrow
#

makes room choices that would’ve been trivial more interesting

quartz mantle
#

It also gives value to trials

agile harness
#

I love having to plan around having to get rid of a boon that would otherwise help my current run.

solemn pulsar
#

^except when it doesn't let you sell that one

#

oh that's what you meant

quartz mantle
#

Gotta save those rerolls

solemn pulsar
#

FO2 is "free" in that once you learn it, you can do it easy

#

CF2 and UC always affect your run, no matter how good you are

quartz mantle
#

ever since I've fully upgraded Persuasion I've had so many rerolls it feels so good

solemn pulsar
#

unless you're good enough to go BOONLESS

quartz mantle
#

Shackle moment

edgy arrow
#

whereas UC with DF is like “oh i’ll just take this to sell” and then you have like 500 trash tier boons late game

agile harness
#

There are some duo boons like lightning rod and sweet nectar I could go without which make UC more bearable.

edgy arrow
#

FO2 never becomes free as far as i’m concerned

#

it just gets easier

agile harness
#

The jump from FO1 to FO2 seems much higher than FO0 to FO1.

edgy arrow
#

FO1 is much easier yeah

solemn pulsar
#

yes but they're still both learnable things

edgy arrow
#

haven’t played FO0 in ages lol

#

sure

#

but like, so’s EM4 in theory

solemn pulsar
#

EM4 affects timer

#

but otherwise yeah

edgy arrow
#

in practice, it makes it so much more difficult even people who are really good still mess up sometimes

solemn pulsar
#

FO2 technically helps timer hehe

#

yeah i'm not saying it's "free" so everyone should take it

#

but once you're taking it, it's not something you consider removing (on a per aspect basis at least)

#

it's also so much heat

edgy arrow
#

yeah that’s true

#

i did go down to FO1 for a couple of my 40s tho

#

it helped a lot lol

#

sometimes i wonder if leaving FO2 on by default is actually not helpful

agile harness
#

I'm too used to EM3 to go down to EM2.

solemn pulsar
edgy arrow
#

yeah

waxen relic
#

I'm using FO1 a lot. It's just more relaxed. squirtnya

plush bobcat
#

yeah fo1 is automatic for me

#

like 3 heat?!

#

it's free heat

mossy zinc
#

No such thing as free Heat.

plush bobcat
#

"Hard labor is free heat if you don't get hit" - Schadenfreudic

solemn pulsar
#

true... entropy

halcyon flame
#

50 heat shackle
first boon is attack thanks to ap2
cry

plush bobcat
#

lol sorry that sucks

unique zephyr
#

For beowulf is there a specific timing for loading the casts in the middle of the bull rush?

mossy zinc
#

No, just mash the button.

unique zephyr
#

And what is the advantage of doing so? Pseudo mentioned its smoother but I am not sure why

unique zephyr
mossy zinc
#

Well, you can do things like rush into your bloodstones to pick them up and immediately load them mid-rush.

quartz mantle
#

That's swag strats

unique zephyr
#

I need to get used to beo a bit

quartz mantle
#

But it also just feels better

unique zephyr
#

It seems like the most fun shield

quartz mantle
#

I enjoy beo a lot

unique zephyr
#

Zeus is probably the best shield though

mossy zinc
#

Also if you load all casts before your rush, it takes much longer to start your rush than if you load just one, immediately charge your Attack, and load the rest into your cast mid-rush.

solemn pulsar
#

and also just learning FO2 is different per weapon

#

like for speedruns FO2 is pretty optimal, but I don't run it on every weapon because i'm not good enough at some of them

#

and enemies like to jump out of the way 😠

plush bobcat
solemn pulsar
#

learning FO2 only applies across all weapons if you're talking about dodge patterns against bosses and enemies, damage routines are on a weapon by weapon basis

mossy zinc
#

Zeus DPS scales way better than Chaos.

plush bobcat
#

Really?

solemn pulsar
#

yeah chaos starts out OK, and then becomes horrendous quickly DPS wise

#

it's good for high heat because it's safe

#

but it's not a very "good" aspect, damage wise

mossy zinc
#

Even before nerfs, it never really did good damage.

plush bobcat
#

I like all shiels aspects tbh

unique zephyr
#

FO2 is 6 heat so I figured it would be worth learning

plush bobcat
#

zag is the worst

unique zephyr
#

It takes a while to get used to but it’s worth it

#

I also started playing faster for some reason getting used to FO2

unique zephyr
#

(The ones who throw and drop inferno bombs)

eternal hare
#

speedy wave makers are pretty egregious too

#

although I guess that's more of a BP thing than an FO thing

quartz mantle
#

It doesn't have any gimmicks but it gets bonus damage so that's cool

solemn pulsar
#

it is probably the worst for high heat though

#

chaos is safe because you can spam special from a distance

quartz mantle
#

Oh sure yea

solemn pulsar
#

zeus is safe because you can shoot special off

plush bobcat
#

they're all ok but I'm saying out of the shields imo its the worst

solemn pulsar
#

and beo is safe because bull rush = i frames

bright mango
#

If both are used in the right hands I would say they are the same

#

Zeus is way more consistent

shy plinth
#

Zeus is probably the most scalable aspect in the game to high heat

mossy zinc
#

Zeus is definitely better than Beowulf. Beowulf suffers way more from RI than Zeus does.

bright mango
#

Then just don’t take RIsquirtyay

unique zephyr
#

CF and UC combine in unfavorable ways

bright mango
#

I'm not even going to take CF2 in my 50 clear(whenever that happens-hopefully soon)

bronze viper
daring hedge
#

zeus can somewhat comfortably deal with RI3 while for rama it's like

#

doable until you get to superdad

bronze viper
#

Last time I tried RI3 I was brickwalled by Lernie

solemn pulsar
shy plinth
#

A lot of weapons have a fall off point and I think Zeus really doesn't at all

bronze viper
#

Yeah I understood what you meant 🙂

shy plinth
#

It has a super high skill cap and is really particular to play but the base kit is just good at every level

#

You're just being semantically difficult?

#

Sir this is the high heat channel

#

That's all we do here

bronze viper
shy plinth
full talon
#

any good rama builds?

true fable
#

no

#

theyre actually all quite bad

full talon
#

im trying to max my hestia

true fable
#

on a serious note

full talon
#

so what do u recommend i go for

true fable
#

just take deadly strike on rama

#

crit good

full talon
#

lets say i dont go rama

bright mango
#

Crit very good

full talon
#

whats the next opition

#

option*

bright mango
#

i guess aphrodite

true fable
#

what do you mean you dont go rama

bright mango
#

For the big dmg%

full talon
#

like i change my weapon i just want something easy so i can farm titan blood real quick so i can max out some weapons

true fable
#

just pick whichever youre most comfortable on

#

rama and hestia are both very good but require some adaptation

bright mango
#

Hestia is a very solid weapon

true fable
#

hestia probably less so

bright mango
#

Hestia is a 3 button wep

wintry berry
#

zag bow cheap to farm with

true fable
#

id say hestia's a 3 button weap until you have to deal with mobby rooms

bright mango
#

Then its a one button wep 🙂

full talon
#

alright imma try a run with hestia which boons should i look for

#

crits?

bright mango
#

Im joking

wintry berry
#

Artemis/Aphro on attack and you're ready to go

full talon
#

Alright what about duos

#

or no need

#

its that crazy

honest kernel
#

no need tbh

bright mango
#

not really

#

get zeus or dio on special

true fable
#

for hestia?

#

lol

#

just get aphro special

#

or athena

#

get the duo if you can but dont force it

bright mango
#

hazard bomb is also solid on hestia imo

true fable
#

^

#

not just solid

#

its probably one of the best

bright mango
#

It carried me through my first 40 clear

#

I just kinda fired it and hid

full talon
#

alright will do thanks wish me luck guys

honest kernel
#

gl

bright mango
#

what heat are you doing

#

?

#

@full talon

full talon
#

low heat so i can max out hestia for a 32 heat run

bright mango
#

Ok nice

#

Yeah hestia is a very solid high heat weapon

full talon
#

I wanna try doing a 32 heat once at least so hopefully it goes well

#

ricochet rounds work beautifully with this weapon what

bright mango
#

Good luck!

#

I like piercing better

#

But ricochet is fine

full talon
#

Thank! il keep piercing in mind

weak meadow
#

Hestia for mob rooms is just special spam, I assume? Those are what shut me down on my last run with it

honest kernel
#

yeah and just holding down attack

mossy zinc
#

I just click-boom everything. You can press Reload + Special together between shots.

bronze viper
#

I am an official beo wolf

#

aroo

unique zephyr
#

On heat that's high but low enough to avoid RI and AP do you all like to high roll or go for consistency?

#

deciding between Zeus and Merciful End for Dem fists

#

Zeus gives a stronger Tartarus which is pretty important and you can whiff ME but ME is more powerful when it is online so not sure what to go for

#

Also running God's Legacy makes my boons weaker on average

mossy zinc
#

Deadly Flourish or Heartbreak Flourish start.

unique zephyr
#

Is Zeus room clear not important or does it just fall off after Tartarus?

#

I haven't considered those starts, I'll try either of those next time

#

what makes them better than Zeus? more DPS?

mossy zinc
#

Most of your damage will come from your Special.

#

Even if you take Lightning Strike chamber 1.

shy gulch
#

i usually dont really feel the need to highroll w fists i guess

#

like zeus attack is fine

#

itll do the job

unique zephyr
#

I feel like I use my attack way more than my special

#

am I doing it wrong?

#

i only use the special when it's charged up

mossy zinc
#

Even if you only use your charged-up Special, most of your damage will come from your Special.

unique zephyr
#

Is special overkill damage in regular rooms or not really?

#

or is the extra damage to bosses well worth it?

#

I haven't thought of focusing on special for dem fists at all

bright mango
#

Special damage is nice

#

Its just a really good side bonus

sullen minnow
#

Dem fists is basically regular fists with a huge burst button bolted onto the special

#

So it plays much like regular fists, but you now have the potential for Everest-like damage spikes if you build your special button appropriately

#

Very handy

mossy zinc
#

You can kill a lot of things with just a Dash-Upper or Dash-Strike > Dash-Upper, and a charged-up Dash-Upper can one-shot most tanky mobs. You can hit multiple enemies, too, even without Explosive Upper.

sullen minnow
#

A lucky charged dash-upper on dem fists with a nice Artemis boon has a very sporty chance of 1-shotting a given boss’ current health phase

#

Put it that way

#

Dem can make minibosses just evaporate too

#

Giga cutter basically lets you take one or a couple enemies on the board and decide that they just don’t exist anymore every time it charges

unique zephyr
#

For some reason when I immediately Meg against the Heroes, I miss Asterius, what's up with that?

mossy zinc
#

Well, you can't just immediately summon.

#

You can just run between them and summon, tap up on your d-pad briefly and summon, or dash up once and summon. Those will always work.

shy plinth
#

Yeah you have to tap up

mossy zinc
#

That's the optimal damage distribution between Attack and Special on a single target with only Boiling Blood and Shadow Presence.

FistWeaponDash: Dash-Strike
FistWeaponX: Attack combo hit X
Twin Fists: Attack combo first hit
RangedWeapon: Cast```https://imgur.com/a/FrRx5EN
Imgur
#

Excluding the Cast, that's 53% from Dash-Uppers and 47% from Attacks. It's somewhat even on single targets, but for crowds, you'll often hit multiple targets with your Special and Dash-Strikes but not very much with your Attack combo. Best hammers are also for Special and Dash-Strikes. Chain Lightning also has good AOE, but the bounce damage is lower than the initial hit and won't carry over the base damage from your weapon.

gaunt fiber
#

Beep boop

mossy zinc
#

That said, there are definitely chambers where you won't be using your Special and just kill things with Lightning Strike.

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But in my experience, a good Special start has been a lot more valuable than a Lightning Strike start on average.

gaunt fiber
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Oh about that Nyaanyaa

mossy zinc
#

Lightning Strike is also just bad at common tbh. Lord Zeus's boons have the greatest variance between rarities.

gaunt fiber
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Is it optimal to use special to finish off your foes? I see a lot of speedrunners do that but I feel like they're wasting time quite often

solemn pulsar
#

only if they have big chunks of HP left

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i try to save it for last enemies in waves or something similar

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but not keep it on charge too long, since every punch you throw without using it is 1/12 wasted of another one

gaunt fiber
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I don't mean the charged up dash upper though

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Just a random special, often not even a dash upper

mossy zinc
#

Yeah, always depends on context. I'd say as a rule of thumb, use your charged-up Dash-Special any time it's up. Then when you get used to that, start worrying about when not to use it immediately.

gaunt fiber
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Yeah I do that, thanks

mossy zinc
#

I don't think a random Special is really worth it typically.

true fable
#

i dont ever try to finish targets with a special

gaunt fiber
#

I see

true fable
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unless its charged

mossy zinc
#

I think you often just see people messing up their Dash-Upper tbh.

gaunt fiber
#

Yeah I guess

true fable
#

but also what do i know we're all being forced into ME monkey jail again

gaunt fiber
#

It's easy to miss

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Yeah I'm not talking about ME

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I'm taking about the real game

mossy zinc
#

Nah, people just have terrible execution. Maybe they should play more fighting games. squirtnya

true fable
#

nah dash uppers are ezpz

gaunt fiber
#

Malphon is super fun but really tough imo

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I'll learn though

true fable
#

the positioning element is hard

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its not ranged so where you are respective to other enemies matters way more than for like

#

eris

mossy zinc
#

When you face tanky mobs, generally don't use your Special unless it's charged up or a Dash-Strike > Dash-Upper can finish 1-2 off.

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And don't dash before your 5th hit. You want to charge your Special asap.

gaunt fiber
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Are thugs tanky to you or you mean armored foes?

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I'll try do to that

mossy zinc
#

Nah, Thugs die fast. I mean more tankier mobs in Asphodel and onwards.

true fable
#

dont dash before your 5th hit?

gaunt fiber
#

Makes sense

true fable
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why wouldnt you want to dash as much as possible, isnt a dash strike better damage

mossy zinc
#

It's better damage than a regular Attack, but you'll be charging your Special slower.

gaunt fiber
#

I don't do that at all lmao

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I attack and cancel my combos with empty dashes

#

Should I dash strike more

true fable
#

i see

#

good to know nyaanyaa

mossy zinc
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When a wave spawns or you enter a chamber, you kind of want to gauge which enemies you can kill just asap with Dash-Strike > Dash-Uppers or a single Dash-Upper or Dash-Strike even, which ones you want to use as fodder to charge your Special, and which ones you want to just kill off with your charged-up Dash-Upper and avoid otherwise.

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If that makes any sense.

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I dunno, a lot of it is intuition; I don't consciously plan all of it.

true fable
#

yeah no that makes sense

mossy zinc
#

I think that's kind of what I do, though.

true fable
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its one of those things i imagine you just get a feel for

bright mango
#

I keep dying to furies with beo at 50

#

I’m bad

true fable
#

probably a bit more interesting to do on high heat than anyheat

agile harness
#

Twin Fists are my least favorite weapon.

mossy zinc
#

Yeah but you only get a feel for it if you consciously try to optimize.

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Probably.

agile harness
#

idk why but I can't get the hang of them even after 20 heat

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I'm trying to 32 all weapons

mossy zinc
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But it's fun on any heat if you don't turn off your brain and just reset for ME.

true fable
#

yeah idk

gaunt fiber
#

Thanks Nyaanyaa

agile harness
#

What aspect are we talking about?

mossy zinc
#

Demeter Aspect.

true fable
#

fists are my problem weapon right now

agile harness
#

thought so

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I'm only good with Talos

mossy zinc
#

Problem for any heat speed or high heat?

true fable
#

anyheat speed

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im probably not finding ME fast enough

gaunt fiber
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What speed do you seek

true fable
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i think i could break top 5 all weaps if i had decent fists runs

mossy zinc
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Yeah, I dunno with ME you probably just gotta get ME early in Tartarus, then have good room RNG.

true fable
#

i kind of want to go back to doing 50 heat

mossy zinc
#

I can play ME, but I've never really put a lot of time into it or really deliberately build for it from the start on Malphon. I've never really enjoyed it much.

true fable
#

its not very fun for me

#

but its too good

#

and the alternative is very slow

gaunt fiber
#

Webs went fast with Zeus

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Was it Zeus

true fable
#

webs is stubborn

gaunt fiber
#

That's good

true fable
#

also something of an anomaly when it comes to zeus fists

mossy zinc
#

I dunno, my best time is 8:51, but I haven't really been trying much. That was Heartbreak Flourish start into an early Lightning Strike.

true fable
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ive toyed around with deadly flourish or blade dash starts

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both are about as good as lightning strike start

mossy zinc
true fable
#

youre just trying to get me to start eternal rose huh

gaunt fiber
#

Almost the Eternal Rose

eternal hare
#

that mom pom tho

mossy zinc
#

That Epic Swift Strike probably did half the work by charging up that Explosive Upper lol.

#

Pom Blossom is good.

gaunt fiber
#

When you're good enough

#

It does not pom your dash

shy plinth
#

That smoldering air tho

mossy zinc
true fable
#

im kind of surprised it wasnt more than special

bronze viper
#

I forgot how terrible Eris is at 50+. And by forgot I mean I don't think I ever tried Eris at 50+ lol

true fable
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eris felt fine at 50

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idk how it is above thay

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*that

bright mango
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lol every single on of my beo 50 attempts have died to the furies

true fable
#

have you done 45 yet

bronze viper
#

With Eris? Yeah, easily

true fable
#

oh i was asking pengy

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i also want to go back to 40 and try to finish the full roulette of eris attack boons

#

still have divine strike, deadly strike, and heartbreak strike i think

bright mango
true fable
#

maybe start there?

#

50 adds on a lot of timer pacts

bright mango
#

Maybe I should

mossy zinc
bright mango
#

The timer is not a problem yet for me

true fable
#

make sure you arent autopiloting dash strikes out of your bull rush

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one thing i like to do vs furies is aim my bull rush slightly to one side while they do their projectiles so i dont get shotgunned

mossy zinc
#

The timer can affect your run in ways you don't immediately notice.

true fable
#

^

#

you might be playing more risky

mossy zinc
#

Losing value from taking mid-shop over free boons etc.

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Skipping gold troves.

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Yeah, playing more risky, too.

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@bronze viper congratulations on 50! dusa